Congressional Democrats: We're Fine Going Over The Fiscal Cliff and Plunging the Nation Into Recession

There are two possibilities here. Both may be true.

The Democrats may simply be posturing in order to wring a complete victory in negotiations. By threatening to take the country over the fiscal cliff, and seeming to mean it, they will force Republicans -- whose allegiance is to the nation, and not the progressive ideology -- to stop them by giving them everything they want.

The other possibility is that they're not just posturing and that they do mean it. Charles Krauthammer has been talking about this -- the Democrats know that to finance their ever growing welfare state they will have to tax the middle class. What better way to do it than to take us over the fiscal cliff (automatically raising income taxes on the middle class) and simply say "The Republicans did it, they wouldn't compromise?"

The other part of it, the automatic sequestration part, is likewise something they desire. Deep slashes to the military without having to vote for it? There are also cuts to Medicare, of course, but the Democrats are moving away from the old vote and besides, lots and lots of old people will continue voting for Democrats no matter how much they cut from Medicare (as they proved this last election).

And there's one more thing: We're going to have a recession, with the fiscal cliff or without it. It's better for Obama and the Democrats to have a recession that they can claim "was all because of Republicans" rather than one which is plainly owned by Obama.

All in all, the Democrats have arranged to win on all their spending and taxing objectives, and all they have to do is nothing. They just need to claim "We tried to compromise but the Republicans wouldn't let us compromise with them."

So which is it? Posturing or plan?

Both sides insist they want a deal before January, but a rising chorus of voices, especially Democrats, say they would rather go over the cliff than accept a deal that raised too few taxes while extracting too many cuts, especially to Medicare and Medicaid.

The only problem with this is if the media makes a mighty noise about Democrats' willingness to destroy the country in pursuit of ideological objectives.

What do you imagine the odds of that are?

Posted by: Ace at 01:24 PM



Comments

1 I'm so old I remember when they referred to Republicans as hostage-takers.

Posted by: Andy at November 16, 2012 01:25 PM (5Rurq)

2 Let it burn.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at November 16, 2012 01:26 PM (tf9Ne)

3 The Repubs will cave

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at November 16, 2012 01:26 PM (R8hU8)

4 Vote present, GOP

Posted by: Thirteen28 at November 16, 2012 01:27 PM (HxylM)

5 This is exactly why the House Repubs need to just vote now to raise taxes on everyone making $1 million+ per year to like 65%. Thus cutting out the Dems BS and putting the fiscal collapse directly into the lap of the libs.

Posted by: Ball of Hate at November 16, 2012 01:27 PM (AREf/)

6 Dem's aren't going to cut a fucking thing.

They weren't forced to when the American people threw 60+ of them out of the House in 2010..............so why the fuck would they now?

Posted by: Low Info at November 16, 2012 01:27 PM (AzwZn)

7 Obama didn't start the fire,

Woodrow Wilson and his income tax:

http://bit.ly/QMwdcB

Posted by: John Stark Dark at November 16, 2012 01:28 PM (PALjS)

8 They know a recession is coming regardless and are going to try to bait the Republicans into becoming the goat.

Posted by: Alec Leamas at November 16, 2012 01:28 PM (mg08E)

9 "Our plan worked. That's the difference."

Posted by: t-bird at November 16, 2012 01:29 PM (FcR7P)

10 4 Vote present, GOP

Exactly.

Posted by: rickl at November 16, 2012 01:29 PM (zoehZ)

11 You would think the fuuking Dems could learn a thing or two from the closing Twinkies factory.

Posted by: sTevo at November 16, 2012 01:29 PM (VMcEw)

12 The odds of the media acting responsibly are about the same as the odds of Hollywood being held to account for the overwhelmingly white cast of 'The Twilight Saga: Breaking Dawn - Part 2' and the niggling detail that the two black hotties in that flick are dressed up to look like the famous 'Witch Doctor' p-shop for Obamacare.

Posted by: goy at November 16, 2012 01:30 PM (QsFws)

13 They know their constituents are all brain dead idiots and will vote for the anyway.

Posted by: rplat at November 16, 2012 01:30 PM (ew94K)

14 This really fits in well with a little LiB/MiB plan some friends of mine are working up.

Posted by: Rob McNeece at November 16, 2012 01:30 PM (hNXHo)

15 Well there is no budget so there will be no cuts, sequestration or not. Or I should say no cuts in total spending, there may be cuts in various things that the people like (the Washington Monument), but medicare and ss will not be touched.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 16, 2012 01:30 PM (3BbLJ)

16 Vote present, GOP>>

But they should phrase it like this "We Vote Obama"

Posted by: Buzzsaw at November 16, 2012 01:30 PM (tf9Ne)

17 You would think the fuuking Dems could learn a thing or two from the closing Twinkies factory.Posted by: sTevo

Not unless Hostess was a Dem donor.

Graft, it's the other white meat.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 16, 2012 01:30 PM (4h0z0)

18 Silly, silly proles. You've re-elected the most venal and corrupt admininstration ever. Now we have even more "flexibility" - thanks to you.

Posted by: Queen Michelle at November 16, 2012 01:31 PM (WolTZ)

19 Why does it seem like Heads Dems Win, Tails Repubs Lose?


The only winning move is not to play - Let. It. Burn.

Posted by: Count de Monet at November 16, 2012 01:31 PM (BAS5M)

20 The GOP will take the blame no matter what. So fuck the country. Give them the full Obama, good and hard.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 16, 2012 01:31 PM (zF6Iw)

21 Take it over the cliff then, and we will fight from there. I figure we will be abandoning normal electoral political calculations soon enough anyway, so why not just bring it all on this decade rather than next?

Posted by: T. at November 16, 2012 01:31 PM (IAz1v)

22 Well, it's Thelma Louise Time...punch it Chewy!

Posted by: Paladin at November 16, 2012 01:32 PM (WujO7)

23 Make them own it!

Posted by: EC at November 16, 2012 01:32 PM (GQ8sn)

24 Yes.

Posted by: jeanne, bracing for the crash at November 16, 2012 01:33 PM (GdalM)

25 Also the house repubs can just pass the various Billionaire Buffet Taxes we all talk about and ask "why the dems would rather protect billionaires than keep the tax cuts for the middle class?". It worked for them, just repeat it over and over, the answer to every question.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 16, 2012 01:33 PM (3BbLJ)

26 It's almost like Boehner fucked up the negotiations that got us here.

Posted by: Golan Globus at November 16, 2012 01:33 PM (7vSU0)

27
I see only political upside for us if we hold our ground.

Posted by: soothie at November 16, 2012 01:33 PM (qwfV8)

28 We all agree a major problem is the media - so "letting it burn" will quickly become "republicans burned it". Be prepared to argue that with your lib friends, just saying.

Posted by: realityman at November 16, 2012 01:34 PM (obXkJ)

29 the first thing you said, ace. The fiscal cliff and sequestration accomplishes everything they desire especially the blaming Repubs part

Posted by: just L at November 16, 2012 01:34 PM (0PiQ4)

30 A recession is not coming. A permanent reduction of the economy and lowering of the standard of living is coming. That is the plan, it's always been the plan. After it's been lowered, the Democrats will manage the lowered expectations. That's the plan. It's always been the plan.

Posted by: tubal at November 16, 2012 01:34 PM (BoE3Z)

31 The GOP should "abstain"

Let it burn, and put the matches plainly in the hands of TFG

Posted by: kbdabear at November 16, 2012 01:34 PM (wwsoB)

32 Ace,
Why is my IP still banned? I've sent three e-mails to you and I am still banned. This post is made at work, so the IP is not the same as my home IP.

Tom Seaver (not the real one)

Posted by: Still Banned at November 16, 2012 01:34 PM (T4dLI)

33 Ace,
Why is my IP still banned? I've sent three e-mails to you and I am still banned. This post is made at work, so the IP is not the same as my home IP.

Tom Seaver (not the real one)

Posted by: Still Banned at November 16, 2012 01:35 PM (T4dLI)

34 Long ass comment that is made up of three that I did in the Rove elephant thread. I know, tldr I know the way to the barrel:

Let's talk about the "fiscal cliff" my guy didn't know what that was and why people were talking about it. I explained how it came about, from the debt ceiling business, how the Congress had agreed to cut spending, and if they didn't, other cuts would happen automatically.

Bottom line is we got snookered. Surprise surprise, Boehner sucks at negotiating, but we got snookered. Because no matter how it breaks, its a win for the Dems. It helps that they have air cover from the media, but they can be on the winning side regardless, and make the Republicans look hapless and uncaring at the same time. The most important poll question in politics is does the candidate care about people like you.

So, lets say we go over the fiscal cliff. Well, look, the Republicans said they wanted these cuts, here they are, and now they are squealing about them. They just want to cut as long as it doesn't hurt their favored rich or whatever. Obama got it - he said in the debate it wasn't him that did the deal, even though it was.

So if the fiscal cliff happens, they get credit for being fiscally prudent. But Republicans don't, because they are already complaining, talking bad about the cliff, it will drive us into recession, etc. If being fiscally prudent is good, why are they trying to avoid it?

And what if the Republicans do steer away from the cliff? How will they do it? Either throw away the deal - which then says the deal was meaningless and was the political posturing that the Dems said it was to begin with. Why go through all that drama if in the end they are going to throw it all away?

Another part of the fiscal cliff is the 2% payroll tax cut. Guess what, that goes to middle and lower class - there is a cap on how much payroll tax you pay - I forget what the cap is, $130k or? You pay the same whether you make the 130 or 10M.

Getting 2% of your paycheck back (or not taken out is real money that you can see. It may not be a ton of money, but it is something. This expires at the end of the year. So this tax is going up. It doesn't matter if it was "supposed" to be at that higher level, the fact is that it isn't, and the expiration is a tax increase. So, guess who has to address it? The House. They have to let it happen - and thus "raise taxes" on the lower and middle class. Or they have to extend it. But the payroll tax funds Social Security, and taking essentially 1/6 out of the revenue for it weakens it. (Yes, but it was Obama's idea, so isn't he weakening SS? Shut up.)


So either way this breaks down, the Dems declare a win. And the Republicans look hapleess and like they don't care.

So it isn't enough to just descrbe the problem, you have to have a solution to the problem. It isn't about the words, not like that Lakoff guy says about framing, it is about the argument itself.

Republicans need to do stuff and not just posture. Put up a vote for a plan that would provide cuts that obviate sequestration, vote for it, and send it to the Senate. And if it doesn't go through, fine. Own up to what happened, say that it was the deal you had to make to get there, and you worked to avoid it, and the Democrats wouldn't play ball. Make the Dems own the defense cuts. But do not whine about them.

Posted by: Golan Globus at November 16, 2012 01:35 PM (7vSU0)

35 Let's do it!

Posted by: i am mad as hell - period at November 16, 2012 01:36 PM (cgxNI)

36 Let It Fall

Posted by: Jones in CO at November 16, 2012 01:36 PM (8sCoq)

37 This is exactly why the House Repubs need to just vote now to raise taxes on everyone making $1 million+ per year to like 65%. Thus cutting out the Dems BS and putting the fiscal collapse directly into the lap of the libs.

But then all the rich people would leave and they're like 80% democrat...

Posted by: entropy at November 16, 2012 01:36 PM (TULs6)

38
Sink all available money into a giant megaphone, "THE DEMOCRATS DID IT!"

Sigh . . . . . Never mind.

Posted by: Sphynx at November 16, 2012 01:36 PM (j2McS)

39 20 The GOP will take the blame no matter what. So fuck the country. Give them the full Obama, good and hard.
Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 16, 2012 01:31 PM (zF6Iw)


Woooooooooo!

That's what I'm talkin' 'bout!

*thumpa thumpa thumpa*

Full Obama bay-bee..Woooooooo!

Posted by: The Full Marxist at November 16, 2012 01:37 PM (Dmr+R)

40 And there's one more thing: We're going to have a recession, with the fiscal cliff or without it. It's better for Obama and the Democrats to have a recession that they can claim "was all because of Republicans" rather than one which is plainly owned by Obama."


Bingo. And another reason Boner and Bitch McConnell should not be in leadership anymore. They agreed to that travesty, they are the ones that helped do this. And the fucker slept like a baby after the election.

Posted by: Mr pink at November 16, 2012 01:37 PM (1PF/K)

41 The Dems and Leftists will play with fire until the point where the flames are licking at the grass in their back yards.

Then they'll be scared for real

Posted by: kbdabear at November 16, 2012 01:37 PM (wwsoB)

42
Why do democrats hate the poor and the middle class?

Posted by: The response to every media question at November 16, 2012 01:37 PM (3BbLJ)

43 Maybe this would be a good time to start phone-bombing the GOP offices and tell them to vote "present."

Appeal to the vanity of the staff: "Look, you're not stupid. You know we're facing this because the Senate won't pass a budget and the lying media did everything they could to hide this "fiscal cliff." And you know no matter what your boss does, the Dems will scream at them. So tell your boss to vote 'present.' He / She's going to get slammed anyway, so why not put this right in the Dems' laps? VOTE 'PRESENT!'"

Thoughts?

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 16, 2012 01:37 PM (zF6Iw)

44 Give them their taxes increases and cap and tax programs. These can all be reversed. Do not give in on the debt ceiling debate, make them pay for everything today. Make this generation of losers pay for their free stuff, don't allow them to pass it on to the next generation. Then the democrats will own this recession and the GOP makes gains in the midterms.

Posted by: mark at November 16, 2012 01:37 PM (w4IcK)

45 The Repubs need to ABSTAIN from the vote.

Posted by: Felt Wrapper at November 16, 2012 01:38 PM (ecmD4)

46 30 tubal

Yup, creating a new normal

Posted by: just L at November 16, 2012 01:38 PM (0PiQ4)

47 38
Sink all available money into a giant megaphone, "THE DEMOCRATS DID IT!"

Sigh . . . . . Never mind.
Posted by: Sphynx at November 16, 2012 01:36 PM (j2McS)



As if we would let you get away with that.

Posted by: Blamestream® Marxists at November 16, 2012 01:38 PM (Dmr+R)

48 This is why America is DOOMED.


Posted by: Lee Reynolds at November 16, 2012 01:38 PM (waa/k)

49 Yo, morons! I have an SUV full of firewood. Someone pass me a few gallons of alcohol and we'll get an inferno going.

Posted by: NR Pax at November 16, 2012 01:39 PM (1ml8s)

50 Ace,
Why is my IP still banned? I've sent three e-mails to you and I am still banned. This post is made at work, so the IP is not the same as my home IP. I don't post that often, but if I can't post with this bunch of morons, I have nowhere else to go.

Tom Seaver (not the real one)

Posted by: Still Banned at November 16, 2012 01:39 PM (T4dLI)

51 O is for the all the money we Owe . . .

B is for the Bitch slapping he gave us. . .

A is for how Awesome the Lightbringer is

M is for his lovely bide Michelle

A is for how Awesome The One is (double awesome)

Posted by: Sphynx at November 16, 2012 01:39 PM (j2McS)

52 Congressional Democrats: F*ck you. F*ck your children. And F*ck your grandchildren. We got ours, beyotches.

Posted by: Fritz at November 16, 2012 01:40 PM (/ZZCn)

53 How can we cut the budget if there isn't a budget?

Posted by: i am mad as hell - period at November 16, 2012 01:40 PM (cgxNI)

54 *bride

Posted by: Sphynx at November 16, 2012 01:40 PM (j2McS)

55 The other possibility is that they're not just posturing and that they do mean it.

Never let a crisis go to waste.

Democrats' willingness to destroy the country in pursuit of ideological objectives.

I think their main objective is power/control, and they're going full totalitarian collectivist because a free society won't satisfy their lust.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 16, 2012 01:40 PM (/kI1Q)

56

>>The only problem with this is if the media makes a mighty noise about
Democrats' willingness to destroy the country in pursuit of ideological
objectives.

What do you imagine the odds of that are?
==============.

How is this anything new? Hasn't Obama been destroying the economy for the last three years?

Most of the media will simply cover for Obama as they have always done, and the conservative leaning outlets will continue to rip him, as they have always done.

Posted by: looking closely at November 16, 2012 01:40 PM (6Q9g2)

57 I wonder if I could live off welfare. Maybe I should start looking into that

Posted by: just L at November 16, 2012 01:40 PM (0PiQ4)

58
The republicans are evil. When they vote against Obama they are against change and "progress". If theyvote nowwith Obama they didn't do it with good intentions, so it's still the repubs fault for anything that goes wrong. When will you f*cking republicans learn. The game is rigged against you all. Hahahahahahahhahahahha.

Burhbbb

Posted by: The Media at November 16, 2012 01:40 PM (dmMDQ)

59 The only problem with this is if the media makes a mighty noise about
Democrats' willingness to destroy the country in pursuit of ideological
objectives.



Sounds like maybe one for the cables.

Posted by: Charlie Gibson at November 16, 2012 01:41 PM (QKKT0)

60 That's why I have said from the day Obama won re election... Republicans should have said, we think raising rates on the rich is bad for the ecomny but Obama won and campaigned on this .....And Will not compromise... So to save the country middle class from tax increases ...we will raise the rates on those making 250,000 and do has Obama campaigned 1 dollar in taxes to 3 dollars in cuts..... And every republicans has be willing to repeat it constantly.....


That what democrats do... Every democrats politican , house , senate.... Repeat the same talking points and repeat them instantly, "Bush tax cuts for the rich " ' they don't get embarrassed and shamed, they just repeat ... And they stick in the publics consciousness ... Bush's tax cuts for the rich"


What has bothered me most about republicans is they can't fight.... When they won in 2010... They let Obama off the hook, they stopped attacking him,.

When they should never have stopped critizing, belittling him, degerrating his leadership on the ecomny, Afaganstan, Obamacare..... They way democrats never let up on Bush...

So by 2012 .... It would have been in the public consciousness that Obama = failure.

Posted by: Sam at November 16, 2012 01:41 PM (FWINB)

61 I don't see how the Dems can lose either way. They've got the Media to present them as being responsible and caring. I don't see how any Republican will ever be elected from now on.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at November 16, 2012 01:41 PM (P7hip)

62 *bride

My mind filled in "bidet."

Have some brain bleach: http://kittenwar.com/

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 16, 2012 01:42 PM (/kI1Q)

63 46
Yup, creating a new normal

Posted by: just L at November 16, 2012 01:38 PM (0PiQ4)
Exactly. The Democrat demographic has no sense of history, let alone duty. Their expectations are low (their bellies, figuratively speaking). As long as they have a crib to live in, and free stuff, it's all good.Their "normal" is infinitely malleable. Cause it doesn't cost anything.

Posted by: tubal at November 16, 2012 01:42 PM (BoE3Z)

64 THERE IS NO FISCAL CLIFF

(well there is but this isnt it)

We're talking "cuts" in the traditional washington sense, and tax increases... well, yeah, that sucks, but thats what the people voted for.

Let it burn!

Posted by: Timin203 at November 16, 2012 01:42 PM (5WxMt)

65 I do not care....


thanks for the help Donks...

no seriously you do not get it I am no going to stop you anymore.


Let it burn....

Posted by: sven10077 at November 16, 2012 01:42 PM (LRFds)

66 Don't sweat it! We're playing Nth dimensional chess and everything will be fine!!1!

Posted by: Karl Rove at November 16, 2012 01:42 PM (sZTYJ)

67 Republicans are going to get blamed either way. Let. It. Burn.

Posted by: Marie at November 16, 2012 01:43 PM (H50jQ)

68 Yep. A lower standard of living for Americans is better for the environment. Like the bumper sticker says, we need to be made to "Live Simply".

30
A recession is not coming. A permanent reduction of the economy and
lowering of the standard of living is coming. That is the plan, it's
always been the plan. After it's been lowered, the Democrats will manage
the lowered expectations. That's the plan. It's always been the plan.


Posted by: tubal at November 16, 2012 01:34 PM (BoE3Z)

Posted by: Pyrocles at November 16, 2012 01:43 PM (cv5Iw)

69 41 The Dems and Leftists will play with fire until the point where the flames are licking at the grass in their back yards.

Then they'll be scared for real

Posted by: kbdabear at November 16, 2012 01:37 PM (wwsoB)


Just a guess mind you, but I would look for a Constitution trashing power grab on the brink of that.

Seriously, Venezuelan style.

For. The. Children.

The Obamaphones will never notice, .... or care. FreeShitArmy will be dancing in the streets.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 16, 2012 01:44 PM (Dmr+R)

70
There is no reason for the repub house to negotiate, just pass massive taxes on the super super rich and let the dem senate not take it up. Because they have already signaled their intention to do nothing. Move the chess pieces to offense.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 16, 2012 01:44 PM (3BbLJ)

71 Well re: Hostess and how its a micro on the whole macro collapse the global economy is sliding towards. Someone who managed to stop it for a little while and because of that, Volkswagen became a global car maker.

http://annapuna.blogspot.com/2012/11/for-hostess-sake.html

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 16, 2012 01:45 PM (5CDzH)

72 68

Yeah because we have too much stuff and use up too much gas and pollute the air

Posted by: just L at November 16, 2012 01:45 PM (0PiQ4)

73 The GOP should all vote present just as the senator from IL did his entire career.

Posted by: Infidel at November 16, 2012 01:46 PM (O/fK8)

74 Raise taxes on Twinkies!

Posted by: TexasJew at November 16, 2012 01:46 PM (lD8ju)

75 can't win anything they agree to will be tea party revolt

just start over

Posted by: akak at November 16, 2012 01:46 PM (eFroM)

76 There is no reason for the repub house to negotiate,
just pass massive taxes on the super super rich and let the dem senate
not take it up. Because they have already signaled their intention to do
nothing. Move the chess pieces to offense.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk


This seems to be the only move that doesn't result in checkmate.

Make it so.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 16, 2012 01:46 PM (4h0z0)

77 Give TFG what he wants! Give him the taxes--go French, 75% on the rich!

"Regretfully, we must accede to the wishes of the president and his constituents."

OW they'll get blamed for falling off the cliff, so let them own the recession.


Posted by: PJ at November 16, 2012 01:46 PM (ZWaLo)

78 Both feet on the gas, please.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 16, 2012 01:46 PM (zpqa2)

79
The only problem with this is if the media makes a mighty noise about
Democrats' willingness to destroy the country in pursuit of ideological
objectives.What do you imagine the odds of that are?



Dunno. I'm on vacation, basking in my glory with my boy toys.

Posted by: Nate Silver at November 16, 2012 01:47 PM (UL+ny)

80 I have said this all along. The sequester was a fucking nightmare ofa deal. It should have cut WELFARE payments, not defense.

Such bullshit.

Posted by: Prescient11 at November 16, 2012 01:47 PM (tVTLU)

81 Raise the taxes on which Twinkies? The ones that come in wrapping? Or the ones in Congress and OWS?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 16, 2012 01:47 PM (5CDzH)

82 68 98ZJUSMC,

Run Red be ready for the dicorce....make sure YOUR state cares.

Fuck them.

No mercy.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 16, 2012 01:47 PM (LRFds)

83 The worst possible outcome here is having the GOP cave and agree to just tax increases on "the rich" (who already pay a greater proportion of Federal income taxes in the USA than in any other country on the planet).

The Dems have been railing against the "evil" Bush cuts for the rich for ten years now.

So let them the Bush tax cuts expire. . .in their entirety. Yup, lets even bring back the marriage penalty. If Clinton was such a wonderful Democrat, then lets have his tax regime back exactly.

That way everyone can feel the tax bite, and let everyone who is a maker, not a taker, feel the pain.

The fact is, nothing is going to get fixed without a fically responsible President, House AND Senate, and we simply lack two of those three right now.

Posted by: looking closely at November 16, 2012 01:47 PM (6Q9g2)

84 >>62
*bride

>>My mind filled in "bidet."

>>Have some brain bleach: http://kittenwar.com/


>>Posted by: HeatherRadish


[naked and giggling like Peter Griffin]
Heh, heh, heh, heh, Kittehs !!

Posted by: Sphynx at November 16, 2012 01:47 PM (j2McS)

85


The Republicans will never let it happen.



Period.

Posted by: Meremortal, Let It Burn To The Ground at November 16, 2012 01:47 PM (1Y+hH)

86 I have something to say.

http://tinyurl.com/c4yo8hb


Posted by: The Kurgen at November 16, 2012 01:48 PM (EZl54)

87 and electricity rates will necessarily skyrocket

Posted by: just L at November 16, 2012 01:48 PM (0PiQ4)

88 http://tinyurl.com/cyhkgrg

"Investor Warren Buffett says there won't be a recession if Congress
can't resolve the so-called fiscal cliff before the automatic tax
increases and spending cuts take effect in January.

Buffett
told CNN on Wednesday that the U.S. economy is very resilient, and it
won't collapse if lawmakers and President Barack Obama can't immediately
agree on a plan."


I laugh at the little ones.

Posted by: Worn n Buffed at November 16, 2012 01:49 PM (rzTDZ)

89 CLOWARD-PIVEN.

Posted by: nraendowment at November 16, 2012 01:49 PM (Msv+6)

90
regarding..... Republicans should vote "present" or abstain from voting....

Media headlines in 3...2....1....

Republicans don't offer any solutions to the country going over the fiscal cliff.... Obama is desperately trying to save the middle class while the republicans idly stand by.....we need more democrats in the house so serious people can offer and create serious solutions to our country's problems- Obama said at the now daily White House presser.

Hahahahahhahahahhahhahhhah
Burhhbbbbbb

Posted by: The Media at November 16, 2012 01:49 PM (dmMDQ)

91 Second or third on don't be outdone on proposing taxes on the super rich. Elections / consequences.

Posted by: Beagle at November 16, 2012 01:49 PM (sOtz/)

92 Wake up people, you've bought the narrative. This is not sequestration or the fiscal cliff, you've all managed to swallow this narrative whole.

It's really Cloward-Piven.

Posted by: booter at November 16, 2012 01:49 PM (5KRL6)

93 Let it burn.

Posted by: RJ at November 16, 2012 01:49 PM (QTVh2)

94 @60:"What has bothered me most about republicans is they can't fight...."
--
The reason we can't is that we have a coalition. This was the genius of Madison, to diminish the power of faction and make the nation run as a whole formed out of disparate interests.

But the problem now is that the far-Left faction owns the Democratic party and dominates it through identity politics. They don't have to compromise in order to establish party unity, whereas we do.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 16, 2012 01:50 PM (KMJ6X)

95 "Charles Krauthammer has been talking about this -- the Democrats know that to finance their ever growing welfare state they will have to tax the middle class. What better way to do it than to take us over the fiscal cliff (automatically raising income taxes on the middle class) and simply say "The Republicans did it, they wouldn't compromise?""

Obama even revealed as much in his stump speech....I mean address. He wasn't subtle (admittedly, he can't do subtle, I've noticed) about hinting that he's threatening the GOP to either "work together" (read: do as I say) or else he'll gleefully take us over the cliff and pin the blame on them. He knows full well his constituents are dumb enough to believe anything that comes out of his mouth.

Posted by: The Ghost of Flannery O'Connor at November 16, 2012 01:50 PM (WE5bx)

96 This is a no-win situation. In no-win situations, it's best to not play.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 16, 2012 01:50 PM (zpqa2)

97 ...regardless of her ability to pay.

Posted by: Rob McNeece at November 16, 2012 01:50 PM (hNXHo)

98 LET! IT! BURN!

Posted by: Evilpens at November 16, 2012 01:50 PM (ck76k)

99 If there was ever any doubt, and there hasn't been, as to why I love my wife, this facebook rant removes it:


I
know right! The problem is most people are so uninformed. Doesn't it
sound great that we'll all have healthcare!?! It'll be affordable! (
because the $20,000 we pay a year is super affordable.) Doesn't it sound
great to be on unemployment for 2 years
with no provisions to show you are even trying to find work!?! Welfare
FOREVER! Perfect! Now...here's the problem. Free stuff isn't ACTUALLY
free. All that stuff costs money. Someone else's money of course and OUR
money is infinite don't you know. Of course costs will go up!!! People
will lose their jobs ( as if our country needs more of that), people
will lose hours and not even qualify for their FREE healthcare because
they aren't full time anymore, and employers will be hesitant to hire
more employees because that may force them into the Obamacare bracket.
We know someone that owns several 's Chili's and Applebees chains going
up the coast. They cant afford Obamacare. It would bankrupt them. So
they are forced to either have lay offs, close certain restaurants
completely, or cut their hours in half and make them work at two
different restaurants and split the hours. That way they can have full
time hours but not qualify or benefits. It's ridiculous! It's stupid. He
doesn't understand business or basic economics and its going to crush
our country. All of it leads to rising costs all across the country for a
country that isn't working. Maybe we'll borrow a couple billion more
dollars from China! Makes me want to face palm everyone. The bottom line
is this: he's not a democrat. He's a socialist and socialism NEVER
works. Everyone ends up poor because there isn't enough money or workers
and the government can't provide. Government doesn't make money, it
spends it. If we want to make money, we need LESS government
involvement. We need people to get back to work. Unfortunately....not
going to happen anytime soon. At the end of his term, they'll be begging
us to clean up this mess.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 16, 2012 01:50 PM (da5Wo)

100 Ace,
Why is my IP still banned? I've sent three e-mails to you and I am still banned. This post is made at work, so the IP is not the same as my home IP.

I want to be a moron!!! Please!!! Help me be a moron!!!

Tom Seaver (not the real one)

Posted by: Still Banned at November 16, 2012 01:50 PM (T4dLI)

101
CJ.....

To answer your question about my "first election" from the last thread. I have have been paying attention since 1960, and voting since 1972. My uncle, who was in the Foreign Service, had me reading Foreign Affairs at the age of 16.

This country is in real trouble and there will either be violence or capitulation to tyranny. I think we will see both in the opposite order from above.

Posted by: Meremortal, Let It Burn To The Ground at November 16, 2012 01:50 PM (1Y+hH)

102 @90: The Media
--
yep

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 16, 2012 01:50 PM (KMJ6X)

103 Of course they'll let it crash then blame the Republicans. And the media will provide them cover. If there's anything they've learned from the past four years, it's that they can get away with pretty much anything they want. The MFM will either ignore it or twist it to blame Republicans and it works come election time.


While I'm here, I need to make a recommendation for a novella. It is called Injured Reserves written by DC Bourone. It's the most beautiful writing of a horrid war situation I've ever read. It's simply stunning and emotionally raw, while being uplifting at the same time. It's only $2.99 on Kindle and I thnk it can be found other places as well, like Kobo. Please read it, you will not regret it.

Posted by: DangerGirl - feeling empty at November 16, 2012 01:51 PM (9bZEV)

104 Sam, who is going to run it. The media will just ignore us unless we go outrageous. So it is a clever way to bang the pans in our echo chamber.

Posted by: Jean at November 16, 2012 01:51 PM (UIE9v)

105 Here is the plan.

Give Obama and Pelosi and Reid everything they want fiscally. For the next two years. With a hard sunset provision at the end of those two years.

They then own the results unambiguously.

It's not like they are economic geniuses. Look at Obama's economic plan to date and what a bust it has been. And higher taxes in a weak economy never yield good results.

This can't be said enough. If the GOP is able to retrench and able to take the Senate in 2014, when the Democrats are on defense again, the last two years of Obama will just be an ineffectual photo op. Major changes for the worse will stop.

(This assumes we avoid picking, as Senatorial candidates, socon retards who blurt out insane nonsense about how if a woman gets pregnant from rape, it must not have been a "legitimate" rape.)

Posted by: torquewrench at November 16, 2012 01:51 PM (ymG7s)

106 >>>>The worst possible outcome here is having the GOP
cave and agree to just tax increases on "the rich" (who already pay a
greater proportion of Federal income taxes in the USA than in any other
country on the planet).

The Dems have been railing against the "evil" Bush cuts for the rich for ten years now.

So
let them the Bush tax cuts expire. . .in their entirety. Yup, lets even
bring back the marriage penalty. If Clinton was such a wonderful
Democrat, then lets have his tax regime back exactly.



Posted by: looking closely at November 16, 2012 01:47 PM (6Q9g2)

This is why, if they do not allow the BTC to expire, we can be certain the Republicans (not all, but lots including the "leadership") are in on it (I'm already convince of it). Of course, I don't think the Dems will ever let the BTC expire. They know what it would mean.

Posted by: Duh! at November 16, 2012 01:52 PM (Zs83Q)

107 I'd like to see a new Buffet bill: identify the deductions and exemptions he uses and simplify the tax system by removing most of them.

Probably could do that with Hollywood, too.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at November 16, 2012 01:52 PM (QF8uk)

108 This would never have happened if you neocon warmongererzzzzzzzz had voted for Liberty!!!!

Posted by: Rawn Paul at November 16, 2012 01:52 PM (60GaT)

109 100 I want to be a moron!!! Please!!! Help me be a moron!!!

Tom Seaver (not the real one)


I think you've unintentionally stumbled upon an easy way to get your work ip banned too.

Posted by: Rob McNeece at November 16, 2012 01:52 PM (hNXHo)

110
Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 16, 2012 01:50 PM (da5Wo)



Nice. Won't intrude the thick skulls of liberals, but I bet she felt better.

Posted by: Meremortal, Let It Burn To The Ground at November 16, 2012 01:52 PM (1Y+hH)

111 I've been making this point for months, but no one would listen...

Posted by: Jaylord at November 16, 2012 01:52 PM (RuF8n)

112 Wow Ace, you think you could possibly have a thread on a topic less depressing? Like boobies maybe -- and not the Heather Radish kind who has RickRolled me once too many times.

I think the International Hooters Girls competition just completed.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 16, 2012 01:52 PM (feFL6)

113 If the recession is coming anyway - then Let It Burn. Give Obama and the Democrats the tax hikes they want. Let the economy crater. Then, it's on them. They can't blame the Republicans. And if they do, even the media will have a hard time carrying that water.
Maybe - just maybe - this will be the death knell of Kenysian economics.

Posted by: Hoi Polloi Wingnutia at November 16, 2012 01:53 PM (xvtYZ)

114 The Republicans should propose a tax on wealth. Say 1% on stock and bond holdings over $1,000,000.

Posted by: boniface ballers at November 16, 2012 01:53 PM (l3RZ9)

115 Look what the MBM is putting out so that the HFT algorithms don't shit the bed while the markets are open;

Meeting on Fiscal Cliff Called 'Constructive'


http://tinyurl.com/c4rp69q


Posted by: kbdabear at November 16, 2012 01:53 PM (wwsoB)

116 Democrats and their demographic have an innate hostility towards the country. Republicans are timid collaborators, only too happy to have a seat in Vichy France. My contempt for the Parties is boundless.
The only distinction for me is one Party actively promotes great evil - the other Party bows to it.
I've been driven to hard Libertarianism. My allies are only those who seek limited government. As far as I'm concerned, at this point the Republicans are only (occasional) useful idiots to me.

Posted by: tubal at November 16, 2012 01:53 PM (BoE3Z)

117 28 We all agree a major problem is the media - so "letting it burn" will quickly become "republicans burned it". Be prepared to argue that with your lib friends, just saying.
Posted by: realityman at November 16, 2012 01:34 PM (obXkJ)


You're assuming that "the media," like the Left, will remain detached from, and intact, during and after The Burn.
Clearly you haven't seen the Oakland news camera mugging snippet yet.

Posted by: BuddyPC at November 16, 2012 01:53 PM (jfUIE)

118 BCochran, your wife needs either a blog or a clue-scythe. Plus being spoiled by you.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 16, 2012 01:53 PM (5CDzH)

119 So which is it? Posturing or plan?

I no longer care. The Republicans will fuck it up no matter what they try, the press will blame them and the guvment cheeze breathed trolls will vote for the free shit.

Let the bodies hit the floor.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 16, 2012 01:53 PM (QupBk)

120 Let it burn?

Posted by: DC Zombie at November 16, 2012 01:53 PM (b96e6)

121 the Democrats know that to finance their ever growing welfare state they will have to tax the middle class.

This is why I haven't joined the Suicide Brigade. The Democrats have been advocating and implementing massive increases in spending for decades, yet haven't raised taxes on the middle class since 1993. And we're surprised the Spend More With No Repercussions platform won more votes?

Let them pass their upper income tax hike. They'll burn through the money before the ink is dry on Barry's signature. Then what?

Posted by: CJ at November 16, 2012 01:53 PM (9KqcB)

122 Marco Rubio-Tom Cotton 2016!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Prescient11 at November 16, 2012 01:53 PM (tVTLU)

123 108 This would never have happened if you neocon warmongererzzzzzzzz had voted for Liberty!!!!
Posted by: Rawn Paul at November 16, 2012 01:52 PM (60GaT)

Unfortunately, Liberty wasn't running.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 16, 2012 01:54 PM (3Y7RV)

124 the only Twinkies they had at the store were the kind with chocolate filling and nobody likes those


Hello Little Debbie. How YOU doin'?

Posted by: Jones in CO at November 16, 2012 01:54 PM (8sCoq)

125 The Republicans should propose a tax on wealth. Say 1% on stock and bond holdings over $1,000,000.

I would complain about this, but since election day I no longer have stock holdings over $1,000,000.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at November 16, 2012 01:54 PM (QF8uk)

126
Man With 100 Pound Testicles Refuses FREE SURGERY

Wesley Warren Jr, turned down the opportunity to have his huge balls surgically removed. It all went down when the “Dr. Oz” show said they were willing to pay for the surgery but wanted exclusive rights to his interview.

It was also believed that Wesley does not want to lose the fame he has recently gained from the size of his testicles. Wesley had just recently appeared on an episode of ‘Comedy Central’s’ Tosh.0.

Because of the size of Warren’s testicles, he cannot hold down a job and it is difficult for him to properly urinate. The surgery is really risky because if doctors foul up, he could not only lose his balls but his penis as well.


TAKERS KEEP ON TAKIN!

LET THE MOTHER FUCKER BURN!

Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at November 16, 2012 01:54 PM (ovpNn)

127 Such a must-read. Read it, it's good for you: http://tinyurl.com/cxos39y

Posted by: DAve at November 16, 2012 01:54 PM (XDC0v)

128 63 tubal

The welfare junkies have their coccon (albeit a shiity one in the ghetto or the bario), the elite liberals have their snazzy dazzling cocoons while all us dummies here work hard like suckers

Posted by: just L at November 16, 2012 01:54 PM (0PiQ4)

129 Pass something in the House that gives the Dems some of what they want on taxes and also eliminates the most egregiously wasteful programs (Coburn had $200B in wasteful and duplicative programs). Send it to the Senate and put the onus on Reid and Obama.

Alternatively, hold press conference pointing out that in debate 3 Obama, trying to maintain votes, said sequestration would never happen only to turn around the next day with Iowa newspaper to say that sequestration was a sign of his commitment to get the deficit under control. Publicly state that they're willing to work with either of Obama's positions but that he has to pick one, publicly, and stick to it.

Posted by: somebody else, not me at November 16, 2012 01:54 PM (nZvGM)

130 Oh yeah.... Let.It.Burn

Posted by: tubal at November 16, 2012 01:55 PM (BoE3Z)

131
/sigh I really am to old to see this through again.

Let the Democratsown it and when the 'free' stuff dries up see who the mob turns on.

Posted by: Gmac at November 16, 2012 01:55 PM (IanLz)

132 114
The Republicans should propose a tax on wealth. Say 1% on stock and bond holdings over $1,000,000.

Posted by: boniface ballers at November 16, 2012 01:53 PM

Mr. Obama wants to raise tax rates on upper-income Americans, while Republicans are against raising rates. GOP leaders recently have, however, shown an openness to raising revenue through the tax code, perhaps through closing loopholes and limiting deductions. Mr. Obama has said that alone wouldn't generate enough revenue to achieve a large deficit-reduction deal.

Maybe it's time to put the phone on mute again when TFG talks

Posted by: kbdabear at November 16, 2012 01:55 PM (wwsoB)

133 Thousands of Chicago public school teachers and their supporters march through the Loop and in front of the Chicago Public Schools headquarters in September.

Workers walk off the job at Walmarts, Boeing employees get the right to discuss unions during work time and Chicago teachers get most of their demands met.

Add to this a re-elected President Barack Obama—who's meeting with labor leaders Tuesday at the White House for talks on the "fiscal cliff"—and some analysts say the time may be right for a rebirth for American labor activism.

"I do think it's a favorable time for workers and the unions," said Chris Rhomberg, associate professor of sociology at Fordham University. "What's happening, including the election, is a push back on the reversal of worker's rights that hasn't happened since the New Deal."

Obama's return to the White House will put greater pressure on him to do more for a major constituency, said John Alan James, executive director for global governance at Pace University.

"He owes them big time," James said. "The Democrats got a big labor turnout this election. There's pressure on Obama to deliver on things like the Employee Free Choice Act, which makes it easier to organize unions."

________________

cnbc.com

Posted by: tasker at November 16, 2012 01:55 PM (r2PLg)

134 I used to have a thriving career in the processed foods industry. Now I have to get on the dole and/or do gay porn.
Let it Burn

Posted by: Twinkie the Kid at November 16, 2012 01:55 PM (/Mla1)

135 It's really Cloward-Piven.
Posted by: booter


Did you have something specific in mind?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 16, 2012 01:56 PM (4h0z0)

136 This debate style worked real well at Hostess.

Posted by: pat at November 16, 2012 01:56 PM (4uetg)

137 This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.

Posted by: That Guy that Didn't Want to be Preezy at November 16, 2012 01:56 PM (zpqa2)

138 100
Ace,

Why is my IP still banned? I've sent three e-mails to you and I am
still banned. This post is made at work, so the IP is not the same as my
home IP.



I want to be a moron!!! Please!!! Help me be a moron!!!



Tom Seaver (not the real one)

Posted by: Still Banned at November 16, 2012 01:50 PM (T4dLI)


I'd contact Andy....he seems to be better at unsticking people. Send him the message you get from your banned IP address.
Now having said that, I do not know Andy's e-mail addy......

Posted by: Tami at November 16, 2012 01:56 PM (X6akg)

139
83....So let them the Bush tax cuts expire. . .in their entirety. Yup, lets even bring back the marriage penalty. If Clinton was such a wonderful Democrat, then lets have his tax regime back exactly.

------------

This might work...if the Republicans keep to the narrative of:
"We gave them what they wanted, a Return to the Clinton Tax Code."

And keep repeating that.
"Return to the Clinton Tax Code"
"Return to the Clinton Tax Code"
"Return to the Clinton Tax Code"

Millions of people who don't pay any taxes right now, would soon see a big difference in their paychecks.
They would scream, of course.

But hey...it's a "Return to the Clinton Tax Code".

Then, Barky would call for "Tax Cuts for the middle class".
He would of course, blame the Republicans in congress for not 'cooperating'.

Republicans could respond with...."pass a Budget, then we can work on Tax Cuts".

It might work.

Posted by: wheatie at November 16, 2012 01:56 PM (ICEh3)

140 134 I used to have a thriving career in the processed foods industry. Now I have to get on the dole and/or do gay porn.
Let it Burn
Posted by: Twinkie the Kid at November 16, 2012 01:55 PM (/Mla1)

On the bright side, you'll still be filled with cream.

Posted by: RWC at November 16, 2012 01:56 PM (fWAjv)

141 "socon retards"

why can't it just be "retards?" Paul Ryan's a "socon" (love that term BTW and how it increasingly seems like a weird slur,) he's just not a dip.

Posted by: JDP at November 16, 2012 01:57 PM (60GaT)

142 What's so dangerous about across-the-board spending cuts? Slash that budget. Cut everything. Then do it again. Fiscal conservatives on both sides of the aisle should be enthused by the prospect of reducing the deficit.

Posted by: Jordan at November 16, 2012 01:57 PM (jRfn3)

143 Pass the tax hikes on the wealthy because they never actually pay more.. Their accountants know how to game the tax code so they never pay more. We should stop being the party of their defenders.

Posted by: just L at November 16, 2012 01:57 PM (0PiQ4)

144 Obama's re-election was a TOTAL WIN for the middle class!

Posted by: Some Idiot on Facebook at November 16, 2012 01:57 PM (znT2j)

145 In Falkenberg's Legion a majority of the human population on Earth was kept docile by the use of a drug extracted from the planet Tanith. In Obamaopolis, all that is needed is a free phone. Genius. Pure genius.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 16, 2012 01:57 PM (5CDzH)

146
Posted by: CJ at November 16, 2012 01:53 PM (9KqcB)



Not looking to argue with you pard, but I answered your question from the last thread at #101.


I submit that things are much worse than you realize.

Posted by: Meremortal, Let It Burn To The Ground at November 16, 2012 01:57 PM (1Y+hH)

147 137 This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it.

Russians don't take a dump without a plan, son.

Posted by: Rob McNeece at November 16, 2012 01:57 PM (hNXHo)

148 I liked GWB, but man did he fuck some things up. Like the tax cuts which made a shit ton of people pay no tax.

THAT SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED.

Skin in the game, bitches...

Posted by: Prescient11 at November 16, 2012 01:58 PM (tVTLU)

149 You know what I would like, is for justone damn time, just once... for a group of Republicans to stand on the capitol steps- and start screaming and yelling about the lying that is going on, just once. I'm screaming, my family is screaming but our leaders are laughing it up shaking hands and rolling over, it makes me sick.I could go on about a million things I want them to talk about, but just one thing would make me happy, one brave stance on one thing, Benghazi, FF, voter fraud, this stupid war on women. And speaking of the war on women, I'm so sick and tired of these damn feminist who supposedly want to be treated equally, but GOD forbid you question a black democrat women and hold her to any sort of standards... no shut up your a racist.
I'm so sick of this crap, we are all so frustrated because we have no voice. We elect people who are suppose to speak for us, but they don't. We try to speak up and we are called names. It's a horrible feeling when your fighting against people who are not playing by the same rules.
Sorry about the rant.

Posted by: spypeach at November 16, 2012 01:58 PM (pwTow)

150 Fiscal conservatives on both sides of the aisle

There are times when the dunce's naivete is almost charming.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 16, 2012 01:58 PM (QupBk)

151 i mean when someone like Phil Gramm talks about a "nation of whiners" when our economy's about to collapse I'm not talking about "ficon retards"

Posted by: JDP at November 16, 2012 01:58 PM (60GaT)

152 The media now only care that they can write a story that says "Obama wins." The Washington Post will write a weak-ass editorial saying that entitlements have to be on the table, but on the front page they will cheerlead whatever the Dems decide to do, and Ezra Klein and Greg Sargent will spin the shit out of it and applaud the spectacle of the GOP once again being painted into a corner.

The only thing that will stop them is the pretty considerable cuts in social programs in the sequester. These programs have NEVER been actually cut, not once, and thePoverty Pentagongroups will squeal like hell over them. Then the Dems will panic and beg the Republicans to pretty please, let's extend the $1 trillion deficit and raise the debt ceiling just this one more time.

Posted by: rockmom at November 16, 2012 01:58 PM (NYnoe)

153 the Democrats know that to finance their ever growing welfare state they will have to tax the middle class.

Also, isn't it odd that everyone knows this is true, but conservatives never talk about it, let along repeat it? By odd, I mean stupid.

Posted by: CJ at November 16, 2012 01:59 PM (9KqcB)

154 Maybe - just maybe - this will be the death knell of Kenysian economics.
Posted by: Hoi Polloi Wingnutia


Keynesian economics has its place. What we've seen the past few years is a perversion of Keynesian economics used to mask responsibility and justify indulging select favors in return for authority.

Posted by: BuddyPC at November 16, 2012 01:59 PM (jfUIE)

155
We all have good plans, I wonder what is in the water in DC that makes the repubs go stupid. What makes it so hard?, just say the dems want to protect the rich, we want to protect the middle class. Use their language. Don't have to give details, today's journalists don't want details, they want quotes.

But who are we kidding, the repubs will cave.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 16, 2012 01:59 PM (3BbLJ)

156 Posted by: spypeach at November 16, 2012 01:58 PM (pwTow)

It would take a million person march. Of course the prezzy would be out of town, congress would not be in session and the headline would be something about Justin Beiber boning a Disney actress.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 16, 2012 02:00 PM (3Y7RV)

157 I would be worried the U.S. is heading toward a one-party system.
The Dems have bought and paid for nearly 50 percent of the electorate. Approximately that percentage is living in swamp and the Dems only want to make that swamp more comfortable rather than getting them out of there.
And the MFM is doing all they can to eliminate opposition to the left.
Just my opinion.

Posted by: Northern Lurker at November 16, 2012 02:00 PM (GME55)

158 But how will the drooling fat-assed slobs get their Obamaphones then?

Posted by: TexasJew at November 16, 2012 02:00 PM (lD8ju)

159 "Like the tax cuts which made a shit ton of people pay no tax."

don't get why this is a terrible thing, Reagan dropped tons of people off the rolls, and they pay payroll/other taxes

the goal should be to get poorer people to a point where they are contributing

Posted by: JDP at November 16, 2012 02:00 PM (60GaT)

160 Then what?Posted by: CJ at November 16, 2012 01:53 PM (9KqcB) Then they continue to spend by debasing the currency and stealing half the citizen's wealth over the next ten years. They can do this for decades, as I've watched it happen in my second country, Italy.

Posted by: Meremortal, Let It Burn To The Ground at November 16, 2012 02:00 PM (1Y+hH)

161 What we've seen the past few years is a perversion
of Keynesian economics used to mask responsibility and justify indulging
select favors in return for authority.

Posted by: BuddyPC at November 16, 2012 01:59 PM (jfUIE)
Uh, I believe that's called Fascism.

Posted by: tubal at November 16, 2012 02:00 PM (BoE3Z)

162 Oldsailors Poet.

A Disney actress? Which one? What kind of hat was she wearing?

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at November 16, 2012 02:01 PM (QF8uk)

163 Listening to Ron Paul's farewell speech.

Poor guy was just a little to unflinching. A little too un-pragmatic. His heart was always in the right place, and he was one of the few ever to run for Prez who I never thought was doing it for power.

Posted by: bigpale at November 16, 2012 02:01 PM (B5Q76)

164 >>Mr. Obama has said that alone wouldn't generate enough revenue to achieve a large deficit-reduction deal.

The problem here is that at this point NO modification to the tax code is going to create a large deficit reduction; the deficit is simply TOO LARGE.

The *ONLY* way to trim the deficit is to CUT SPENDING.

Yes, if there was significant economic growth we could partially offset the deficit, but I don't see how any increase in taxes is going to increase economic growth, with the converse almost certainly true.

Posted by: looking closely at November 16, 2012 02:01 PM (PwGfd)

165 This is why it is probably wise to give them exactly what they want. Whatever that is. And let the suffering begin. Two years down the road the Senate will go R. Let them have their day.

Posted by: Davidlind at November 16, 2012 02:01 PM (J9mCu)

166 Posted by: Jordan at November 16, 2012 01:57 PM

Hi Jordan. Is the Texas Legislature still in session?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 16, 2012 02:01 PM (4h0z0)

167 The only problem with this is if the media makes a mighty noise about Democrats' willingness to destroy the country in pursuit of ideological objectives.

What do you imagine the odds of that are?

Posted by: Ace at 01:24 PM

-----

Of course it will be us that will get tagged with that accusation, as it was the time before.

Which is why we have republicans everywhere sprinting to say they'll put revenue out there. It's a terrible negotiation tactic, but when you have WWE refs that changes the calculus.

Posted by: Dave S. at November 16, 2012 02:01 PM (3R0Zs)

168 *Sigh* All I know is I'm going to miss those little chocolate covered Donettes.
That evil Bush fellow.

Posted by: wth at November 16, 2012 02:01 PM (wAQA5)

169 The second issue is the debt ceiling. My stance is give them everything they want tax increase wise, but to refuse to raise the ceiling unless significant cuts in entitlement programs are made.

Now, Pelosi just yesterday reiterated the stance that under the 14th Amendment the government can ignore the debt cap. Fine, make them do this.

Then we get a full blown Constitutional crisis out of the deal which is a good thing, because otherwise its about dead anyways. We at least get to see just HOW dead it is.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 16, 2012 02:02 PM (ccXZP)

170 Posturing or planning? Irrelevant.

SOON

Posted by: SMOD at November 16, 2012 02:02 PM (BrQrN)

171 168 *Sigh* All I know is I'm going to miss those little chocolate covered Donettes.
That evil Bush fellow.
Posted by: wth at November 16, 2012 02:01 PM (wAQA5)

Little Debbie will help you.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 16, 2012 02:02 PM (3Y7RV)

172 CJ:

Paul Ryan made this exact point during the VP debate. But yes, it should be hammered home again and again and again.

Posted by: Prescient11 at November 16, 2012 02:02 PM (tVTLU)

173 149 Posted by: spypeach at November 16, 2012 01:58 PM (pwTow)


Actually, I was hoping that Paul Ryan would punch Nancy Pelosi dead in the face.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 16, 2012 02:02 PM (XkWWK)

174 157>>The Dems have bought and paid for nearly 50 percent of the electorate.
Approximately that percentage is living in swamp and the Dems only want
to make that swamp more comfortable rather than getting them out of
there.

And that's exactly why the GOP should let the Bush tax cuts expire. ALL of them. . .not just Obama's "rich Americans".

Let the middle class feel a bit of the tax pain, and I think they'll get a whole new perspective on things.

Posted by: looking closely at November 16, 2012 02:03 PM (PwGfd)

175 The welfare junkies have their coccon (albeit a
shiity one in the ghetto or the bario), the elite liberals have their
snazzy dazzling cocoons while all us dummies here work hard like suckers

Posted by: just L at November 16, 2012 01:54 PM

Not any more. Tell the Obama loving offspring living in the basement and your other Obama loving relatives that work is for suckers and you're joining the Free Shit Army. If they complain that they can't afford their 4G connections if you don't support them, tell them to protest harder for FREE 4G and i-phones


Posted by: kbdabear at November 16, 2012 02:03 PM (wwsoB)

176 Char Anzable, UC 0079. Paging Char. Please drop that asteroid on DC.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 16, 2012 02:03 PM (5CDzH)

177 "Hi Jordan. Is the Texas Legislature still in session?"

Nope, but Obama is still your president.

Posted by: Jordan at November 16, 2012 02:03 PM (jRfn3)

178 is there anything the 14th amendment can't do

Posted by: JDP at November 16, 2012 02:03 PM (60GaT)

179 Nope, but Obama is still your president.

Enjoy you bark soup, fuckin' homer.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 16, 2012 02:04 PM (QupBk)

180 In Nancy Pelosi's universe the 14th Amendment is more flexible than her face.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 16, 2012 02:04 PM (5CDzH)

181 The Republicans will never beat the Stalinists at "government efficiency".

We are going off the cliff. The "question" is only in the length and diameter of the rope.




Posted by: T. Hunter - let it burn at November 16, 2012 02:04 PM (EZl54)

182 178 is there anything the 14th amendment can't do
Posted by: JDP at November 16, 2012 02:03 PM (60GaT)


I think that was the 11th... maybe the 25th... ahh the hell with it I'm with the constitution...

Posted by: Pelosi at November 16, 2012 02:05 PM (UZQM8)

183 Nope, but Obama is still your president.



Posted by: Jordan at November 16, 2012 02:03 PM (jRfn3)
Actually, he's not - Just an Occupy D.C. moocher.

Posted by: tubal at November 16, 2012 02:05 PM (BoE3Z)

184 Now, Pelosi just yesterday reiterated the stance
that under the 14th Amendment the government can ignore the debt cap.
Fine, make them do this.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 16, 2012 02:02 PM

I'm sure that Nanny Botox will persuade the bond bidders by waving the 14th Amendment in their faces at auctions

Posted by: kbdabear at November 16, 2012 02:05 PM (wwsoB)

185 "Enjoy you bark soup, fuckin' homer."

Loving it. Enjoy your sour grapes.

Posted by: Jordan at November 16, 2012 02:05 PM (jRfn3)

186 175 FREE 4G and i-phones

Wait, the Obamaphone's not 4G? FML... How am I going to surf the web to occasionally send in resumes for jobs I'm obviously underqualified for, in the name of maximizing my UE?

This Government just sucks.

Posted by: Rob McNeece at November 16, 2012 02:05 PM (hNXHo)

187 Enjoy your sour grapes.

Meh. Let it burn. I'm good.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 16, 2012 02:05 PM (QupBk)

188 @177 and the four Americans he killed are still dead.


right Jordan?

Posted by: T. Hunter - let it burn at November 16, 2012 02:06 PM (EZl54)

189
118
BCochran, your wife needs either a blog or a clue-scythe. Plus being spoiled by you.


Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 16, 2012 01:53 PM (5CDzH)


Clue-scythe?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 16, 2012 02:06 PM (da5Wo)

190
Loving it. Enjoy your sour grapes.



Posted by: Jordan at November 16, 2012 02:05 PM (jRfn3)
Burn, baby, burn!

Posted by: tubal at November 16, 2012 02:06 PM (BoE3Z)

191 177
"Hi Jordan. Is the Texas Legislature still in session?"



Nope, but Obama is still your president.



Posted by: Jordan at November 16, 2012 02:03 PM

Get back to work Jordan. I need you to work harder to pay for my Free Shit

Posted by: The Free Shit Army at November 16, 2012 02:06 PM (wwsoB)

192 Jordan's good. As long as Bamacare covers those sweet fruity enemas...

Posted by: T. Hunter - let it burn at November 16, 2012 02:07 PM (EZl54)

193 Now that I think about it, Jordon doesn't even understand what "Sour Grapes" means.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 16, 2012 02:08 PM (QupBk)

194 Every clown in DC thinks they can inflate their way out of the debt, if you dare say otherwise your mocked as someone with Perot-like ears.

Posted by: Jean at November 16, 2012 02:08 PM (C/Pop)

195 Abandon ship.

She's goin' down like Monica.

Posted by: Captain Smith at November 16, 2012 02:08 PM (JJ+PT)

196


There is one other possibility. Both "sides" (heh) could agree to postpone the fiscal cliff for 12 months.

Posted by: Meremortal, Let It Burn To The Ground at November 16, 2012 02:08 PM (1Y+hH)

197 how about one slice at a time?
The House passes a strict budget for one piece of the gov't and agrees to raise the top rate on those over $250,000 by maybe 2%.
If the senate agrees and Barky signs, the House passes a strict budget for another piece of the gov't and agrees to raise the top rate on those over $500k by maybe 2%.
This continues until the Dems balk, because I don't mean giving the Dept of Ed a 7% increase instead of 10%, I mean maybe no increase for this year.

whaddya think..?

Posted by: mallfly at November 16, 2012 02:09 PM (bJm7W)

198 Dem's: "Hey, lets do to the country what those union bakers did to Hostess!"

Posted by: cool cal at November 16, 2012 02:09 PM (VDovR)

199 If I were an armadillo, I would be very nervous. The Hoover Hog is going to be on the menu again for lots of people. Except we might have to start calling them Obamadillos.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows we are now Airstrip One at November 16, 2012 02:09 PM (Lxw+T)

200 Give the Dems whatever they want. Make them own it.

Of course, the bad thing is that if they get all they want and it still goes badly, the media will blame the Republicans anyway. And the stupid masses will lap it up.

Posted by: Marmo at November 16, 2012 02:09 PM (QW+AD)

201 new movie review up

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 16, 2012 02:10 PM (piMMO)

202 Sometimes things happen regardless of planning, but what I suspect the Democrats *plan* to do is whatever their data tells them will benefit them politically.

As for whether they'll go off the cliff, Obama may have tipped his hand in that off-the-record interview with the Des Moines Register. In the debate, he said sequester will not happen. So he's positioned himself as dead set against it in public. If it does happen, he can blame it on the GOP, and the Closet Patriot Media will regurgitate this narrative--meaning that privately he finds the expiration of the tax cuts and sequestration tolerable.

Every time the issue has come up, the Democratic President has been able to make it look like the people who want to do something about our bankrupt fiscal house of cards are the irresponsible ones. Why would this time be any different?

I do not trust career politicians to have the will to stand up to the pressure they're going to face. So Obama will almost certainly get a deal he wants. The person who needs to make the deal always loses in a negotiation unless the other person is clueless. Obama's hand is so strong in this that he would have to be a SCOAMF to blow it.

Posted by: Nicholas Kronos at November 16, 2012 02:10 PM (jeAQW)

203 It’s got to be paid for. There’s no magic money tree.

Posted by: Twink Twinkie at November 16, 2012 02:10 PM (/ZZCn)

204 194
Every clown in DC thinks they can inflate their way out of the debt, if
you dare say otherwise your mocked as someone with Perot-like ears.

Posted by: Jean at November 16, 2012 02:08 PM (C/Pop)
Exactly. Dems, 'pubbies, it's the mindset. Mostly political whores, who love the office they hold. Time for a do-over. Let it Burn.

Posted by: tubal at November 16, 2012 02:10 PM (BoE3Z)

205
kbdabear

thankfully I only have 2 Obama lovers in my extended family and they are faraway in someplace called Ohio and I rarely speak to them. I feel sorry for those of you who have to spend thanksgiving in the same room with your democrat relatives. That must suck

Posted by: just L at November 16, 2012 02:10 PM (0PiQ4)

206 how about one slice at a time?

There's all kinds of ways the Republicans could work this for the benefit of the nation. But it's just not going to happen. There's no upside for the Democrats to stop the burning. It's not a bug, or even a feature, it's their goal.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 16, 2012 02:10 PM (QupBk)

207 @196

Wouldn't O have to extend those tax cuts to the EVIL RICH though?

I think he said publicly that that wouldn't happen.

Posted by: T. Hunter - let it burn at November 16, 2012 02:11 PM (EZl54)

208 There is really only one winning move left, too bad the Repubs are too stupid to even consider trying it.

We control the House where all budgets and taxes must come. So declare, and make sure everyone allowed onto talking head shows does nothing but parrot the talking point... this is the key part, that this no budget BS is done. If we are going to try to fix thus budget mess the first step must be to actually have one. So the House passes a budget again and sends it to the Senate with a very public declaration that there will NOT be a continuing resolution considered unless and until the Senate passes a budget as well and either it bogs down in conference or gets vetoed.

If our team could stay on message the media would have a very hard time spinning it as irresponsible and we all know good and darned well why the Senate can't possibly pass a budget; it would be suicide.

That opens the possibility to offer a punt of the fiscal cliff for six months on the condition it gets resolved in an actual budget deal. Spin it right and it could sound bi-partisan as hell and flip this trap we walked into right back onto them.

Posted by: John Morris at November 16, 2012 02:11 PM (sCRhB)

209 Does this scrote make my ass look big?

Posted by: 100 lb scrote guy at November 16, 2012 02:11 PM (I7O5y)

210 "Meh. Let it burn. I'm good."

Don't worry, Toby. You'll be a patriot again in two years.

Posted by: Jordan at November 16, 2012 02:11 PM (jRfn3)

211 4 Vote present, GOP

Posted by: Thirteen28 at November 16, 2012 01:27 PM (HxylM)


Exactly.

Posted by: jwb7605 (Let It Burn) at November 16, 2012 02:12 PM (Qxe/p)

212 Of course, the bad thing is that if they get all
they want and it still goes badly, the media will blame the Republicans
anyway. And the stupid masses will lap it up.

Posted by: Marmo at November 16, 2012 02:09 PM

That's why I say the Dems need the GOP more than we do. If they didn't exist the Donks would have to make them up.


Posted by: kbdabear at November 16, 2012 02:12 PM (wwsoB)

213 Sp we're intercoursed?

Posted by: John P. Squibob at November 16, 2012 02:12 PM (kqqGm)

214 At the end of his term, they'll be begging us to clean blaming us for not cleaningup this mess.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 16, 2012 01:50 PM (da5Wo)


With all due respect to the lovely Mrs 1981,FIFH.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 16, 2012 02:12 PM (zF6Iw)

215 Imagine how impressed Joe Biden would be, meeting the 100 pound scrote guy?

Posted by: TexasJew at November 16, 2012 02:12 PM (lD8ju)

216 new movie review up

It's a TRAP!

Posted by: admiral ackbar at November 16, 2012 02:12 PM (QupBk)

217 178 No! I predict that the 14th Amendment will be used in a stacked Supreme Court to invalidate the 22nd Amendment and allow Obama to "run" for a 3rd term in what will be a sham "election".

You're fooling yourself if you think Obama's leaving the White House anyway except feet first.

Posted by: Jaylord at November 16, 2012 02:12 PM (RuF8n)

218 @210
but you'll still be a worthless parasite neo-Marxist shit bag

so there's that ...



Posted by: T. Hunter - let it burn at November 16, 2012 02:13 PM (EZl54)

219 http://tinyurl.com/cdm2a99


Red Flag Over the Atlantic

Posted by: Evilpens at November 16, 2012 02:13 PM (ck76k)

220 Don't worry, Toby. You'll be a patriot again in two years.

???

Posted by: admiral ackbar at November 16, 2012 02:13 PM (QupBk)

221 I think it's time for someone in the GOP establishment to get mad and maybe throw a chair, tip over a water cooler or take a bat to someones head.


Maybe!

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 16, 2012 02:13 PM (RrD4h)

222 dammit

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 16, 2012 02:13 PM (QupBk)

223 Well it worked last time. Boehner folded like a lawn chair in Sandy and wept like a little girl.

We've got Boehner Cantor and McConnell negotiating for us. That's certainly not the basis for a new "Dirty Dozen".

Posted by: marcus at November 16, 2012 02:13 PM (GGCsk)

224 The Republicans have to get organized and get maximum talking head time on every show that they can book and continue to beat the "anxious to compromise" drum or we are going to be handed another burning bag full of crap. We are getting cornered again. We feelin' the love yet?

Posted by: and irresolute at November 16, 2012 02:14 PM (DBH1h)

225 Posted by: Meremortal, Let It Burn To The Ground at November 16, 2012 01:50 PM (1Y+hH)

Got it. I understand the frustration, and grave concern. I am there.

But this talk about violence over the election outcome (hell, even over liberal media bias, which actually means less than it used to) is just a losing tactic. Let's at least wait until the Dems repeat their feat - running and winning on a horrible record - with a candidate who is not a minority and doesn't draw so much lock-step minority support.

You've been active for a long time, so you know we didn't get here overnight, neither politically nor as a nation. We ignored the Left's culture war, it was beneath us, and now we have a culture that doesn't just LIKE government aid, it NEEDS government aid, and mushy moderate voters are hesitent to take it away from them.

When I mention how the Right has to make an issue of the Left's disasterous plan to shift us from a two-parent to a single-parent culture -- which is the driving force behind government growth -- I get yawns or hostility. Now, they're all in for total destruction. Shit folks, don't give up so quickly.

Posted by: CJ at November 16, 2012 02:14 PM (9KqcB)

226 Fire John Boehner!

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 16, 2012 02:14 PM (sgNEe)

227 Congressional Democrats: We're Fine Going Over The Fiscal Cliff and Plunging the Nation Into Recession

Let's be perfectly clear on this; since 2009 this nation has deficit spent more than 4 times the amount of "growth" they have claimed. We have annually borrowed and spent more than 8% of GDP in order to claim "growth" of less than 2% of GDP over that year.

We have been in a major contraction since 2009. Period. More than any mild recession. That is the fact of our pathetic existence as a nation under the Treasonous Indonesian Retard and the America-hating dem junta.

In addition to this insane deficit spending, the Fed has been printing like a madman in order to keep interest rates artificially low (waaay too low) in order to make the deficit money appear "free", when it is anything but.

Eventually, the Fed must unwind and interest rates must return to fair value, both of which will squash DC like a flea (taking the rest of us with it if we don't cut ourselves free from this drowning retard soon enough).

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 16, 2012 02:14 PM (X3lox)

228 @223

Ivan Drago vs Pee Wee Herman

Posted by: T. Hunter - let it burn at November 16, 2012 02:15 PM (EZl54)

229 I'd feel safer with Boehner, Cantor, McConnell and the 100 pound scrote guy.

Posted by: TexasJew at November 16, 2012 02:15 PM (lD8ju)

230 Fire John Boehner!

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 16, 2012 02:14 PM (sgNEe)


In all senses of the word "fire".

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 16, 2012 02:15 PM (X3lox)

231 Posted by: Jordan at November 16, 2012 02:11 PM (jRfn3)


Hi Jordan. Is the Texas Legislature still in session?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 16, 2012 02:15 PM (4h0z0)

232 I'm getting pretty mad at the Republican House running these multi-trillion dollar deficits. Pretty fucking angry.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 16, 2012 02:16 PM (QupBk)

233 Heh.

Posted by: Olaf at November 16, 2012 02:16 PM (t1NLo)

234 This is so easy, a caveman could do it.

Republicans shouldannounce that they will let all the "Bush tax cuts" expire. All of them. Then tell the middle class that their taxes are going up topay the 200,000 additional bureaucrats Barack Obama has hired, who live in Northern Virginia which is now the richest place in the country, and tomake upfor the $80 billion in green energy loans welshed on by Barack Obama's campaign contributors. They should say this very sorrowfully but acknowledge that elections have consequences and the people just voted to keep all these bureaucrats on the job and to bail out Obama's contributors.

After about a week of media squealing, Republicans can then unveil their proposal to rescind the tax increases for the middle class, tax the hell out of Hollywood and people making more than $500k in salary and investment income, and kill the deduction for state and local taxes. Maybe throw in a federal excise tax on movie and concert tickets, cable TV, smartphone data plans and apps, iPads, iPods, and other entertainmenttoys that young liberals are attached to.

I'm even willing to see my own income taxes go upa bit if the Republicans would have the balls to do this.

Posted by: rockmom at November 16, 2012 02:16 PM (aBlZ1)

235 "and the four Americans he killed are still dead. right Jordan?"

Over a thousand Americans have died in Afghanistan on Obama's watch. Those deaths are on him. Benghazi is a crime and a tragedy, but as tragedies go, it's small potatoes compared to war.

Posted by: Jordan at November 16, 2012 02:16 PM (jRfn3)

236 OT; Tried searching through threads to see if anyone posted this...

WASHINGTON (AP) — An Obama administration official says a Tampa Bay
socialite whose emails triggered the eventual downfall of CIA director
David Petraeus visited the White House three times this year with her
sister, twice eating in the Executive Mansion mess. http://tinyurl.com/cztb3bp

Posted by: Baldy at November 16, 2012 02:17 PM (opS9C)

237 Yes, dead Ambassadors are just a dime a dozen, Jordan.

Posted by: TexasJew at November 16, 2012 02:18 PM (lD8ju)

238 That's why I say the Dems need the GOP more than we do. If they didn't exist the Donks would have to make them up.

Posted by: kbdabear at November 16, 2012 02:12 PM (wwsoB)


Commies always need an enemy to blame for whatever goes wrong for them.

Posted by: Marmo at November 16, 2012 02:18 PM (QW+AD)

239 Hi Olaf !

I'm ready for another lesson in socialist thought!
As I said I am new to this but willing to learn!


So what does the Socialist plan for the bottom of the fiscal cliff look like? Can I quit my job and coast now?

Posted by: T. Hunter - let it burn at November 16, 2012 02:19 PM (EZl54)

240 Benghazi is a crime and a tragedy, but as tragedies go, it's small potatoes compared to war.

Posted by: Jordan at November 16, 2012 02:16 PM (jRfn3)


Benghazi is an act of war in which the Indonesian and his junta gave aid and comfort to the enemy and moved to restrict Americans' Constitutional rights (up to and including an insane jailing).

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 16, 2012 02:19 PM (X3lox)

241 Then what?Posted by: CJ at November 16, 2012 01:53 PM (9KqcB) Then they continue to spend by debasing the currency and stealing half the citizen's wealth over the next ten years. They can do this for decades, as I've watched it happen in my second country, Italy.

Posted by: Meremortal, Let It Burn To The Ground at November 16, 2012 02:00 PM (1Y+hH)

Could happen. But we get no where if we don't get the isse off the table for at least one election.

Posted by: CJ at November 16, 2012 02:19 PM (9KqcB)

242 http://tinyurl.com/d42ucd3

Woman in Petraeus scandal visited White House

Posted by: Evilpens at November 16, 2012 02:19 PM (ck76k)

243
When I mention how the Right has to make an issue of the Left's disasterous plan to shift us from a two-parent to a single-parent culture -- which is the driving force behind government growth -- I get yawns or hostility.

That's 'cuz EVERYBODY hates you crazy SoCons.

Posted by: Ed Anger at November 16, 2012 02:20 PM (tOkJB)

244 Plans and schemes, try this, try that .. yadda yadda. I'll be shocked and amazed if the Republicans do anything other than piddle on themselves.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 16, 2012 02:21 PM (QupBk)

245 @235

Sounds like a job for Code Pink.

Where are they these days?

Posted by: T. Hunter - let it burn at November 16, 2012 02:21 PM (EZl54)

246 "Over a thousand Americans have died in Afghanistan on Obama's watch. Those deaths are on him. Benghazi is a crime and a tragedy, but as tragedies go, it's small potatoes compared to war."

1) We aren't at war in Libya.
2) The death of an American Ambassador is kinda important.
3) There is a difference between soldiers dying after all aid has been given and allowing people to be killed to hide how bad a situation is.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 16, 2012 02:21 PM (gznAu)

247 LIB... It'll only be for four years and President Ryan will make everything better in 2017. Tipping us over the fiscal cliff is the only way to get real reform.

Posted by: kg1982 at November 16, 2012 02:21 PM (75Nf2)

248 "Plans and schemes, try this, try that .. yadda yadda. I'll be shocked and amazed if the Republicans do anything other than piddle on themselves."

This x2. The last time republicans in Congress actually accomplished something notable, Newt Gingrich was only on his second marriage!

Posted by: Jordan at November 16, 2012 02:23 PM (jRfn3)

249 Paul Ryan made this exact point during the VP debate. But yes, it should be hammered home again and again and again.

Posted by: Prescient11 at November 16, 2012 02:02 PM (tVTLU)

It should be the main theme. Everybody - EVERYBODY - knows the Dems want to turn the US into a France-like economy. And they're doing it, bit by bit. But there's a price tag. A known price tag. I've long said that we jump ahead of this issue and make the Left defend the price tag for what they want. Simply calculate what it would cost for cradle to grave care, and 20-week vacations, and early retirement pensions, etc. - the French model - and put a price tag on it.

Posted by: CJ at November 16, 2012 02:24 PM (9KqcB)

250 Like I said a couple of days ago and what someone said on another thread, have some fun with this. Up the ante: because the GOP wants to protect more of the middle class, taxes only go up on income over $750K rather than Obama's attack on the two income middle class families that have managed to get to 250K. And yes, my democratic friends, the rich should pay more; anything over 500K taxed at 65% with no deduction for state income tax [because most states with income tax are blue]. Plus add on a surtax on income received from movies, tv shows etc produced in foreign countries or receiving state tax breaks or financial incentives. And for Warren Buffett end favorable tax treatment of insurance loss reserves.

I'm on board with some LiB, but lets start with a controlled burn on the commie sympathizers. And to demonstrate how arbitary the 250K is, change your number every couple of days. Make the assholes justify their number.

And BTW, a quick internet search shows Buffett's Berkeshire Hathaway owns Dairy Queen, See's Candy and Pampered Chef. I am always getting invited to these Pampered Chef "parties" and will probably not get invited again after some civil disobedience as the person conducting the party will not like a wet blanket on sales.

Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at November 16, 2012 02:25 PM (qwK3S)

251 Do the right thing and hold the line on taxes. We will be blamed for it regardless. I would rather go into the next election as the tax cutting party rather than whipped curs with our tails between our legs.

Posted by: Mark Percich at November 16, 2012 02:25 PM (jGGqS)

252 The Republicans need to go deep here:

If you make $500,000 gross - 10% tax on gross income.....Then 39% on the rest of your net......

If you make $1,000,000 gross - 15% tax on gross income.....Then 39% on the rest of your net......

Sports figures - 50% tax on your gross earnings over $5,000,000 and 42% on the rest of your net earnings.

Movie & TV stars - 50% tax on your gross earnings over $5,000,000 and 42% on the rest of your net earnings.

Posted by: izoneguy at November 16, 2012 02:29 PM (oKH8p)

253 210 Whoredan,


Nah you fucks took 8 years off dickhead I think I'll take 'em off.

Let it burn Captain No Plan won have fun.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 16, 2012 02:31 PM (fcP8t)

254 Torch it.

Posted by: d_fitz at November 16, 2012 02:33 PM (vu3g7)

255 I'm on board with some LiB, but lets start with a controlled burn on the commie sympathizers.


Fine. Right here, right now.

90% on income over $1M. No deductions.

Let the whining begin.

90% on legal awards over $500K.

Let the whining begin.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 16, 2012 02:34 PM (Dmr+R)

256
Again, we should go back to the Clinton era tax rates.

If it was good enough for Billy Jeff, it's good enough for the stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure.

Here's the thing: we've been living a pretty sweet life. But we borrowed other people's money to do it with. We need to pay that back. We'll still have a pretty sweet life. If we go over the cliff, there are no guarantees that we'll ever get back to a decent existence.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at November 16, 2012 02:36 PM (1hM1d)

257 138 Thanks. I'll try that. Wait.....

Posted by: Still Banned at November 16, 2012 02:37 PM (T4dLI)

258 256 IRA Darth Aggie,

wage is just a number it's standard of living I worry over.

We gift too comfy an existence to the able.

Fuck 'em over the cliff and meet you on the bottom.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 16, 2012 02:38 PM (LRFds)

259 Ace,

Why is my IP still banned? I've sent three e-mails to you and I am
still banned. This post is made at work, so the IP is not the same as my
home IP.



I want to be a moron!!! Please!!! Help me be a moron!!!



Tom Seaver (not the real one)

Posted by: Still Banned at November 16, 2012 01:50 PM (T4dLI)


I'd contact Andy....he seems to be better at unsticking people. Send him the message you get from your banned IP address.
Now having said that, I do not know Andy's e-mail addy......
Posted by: Tami at November 16, 2012 01:56 PM (X6akg)

Ace, how do I contact Andy?

Tom Seaver (not the real one)

Posted by: Still Banned at November 16, 2012 02:39 PM (T4dLI)

260 Tell you what donks....

I'm okay with your guys killing Stevens as long as you yank Val Jarrett's secret service detail...

deal?

Posted by: sven10077 at November 16, 2012 02:44 PM (LRFds)

261 What would be, hypothetically, the modern equivalent of the persistence and endless futile petitioning of government that we would have to endure before we could rightfully and morally claim the equivalent solution the Revolutionary colonists did against the British government? Are we whiny little bitches, or are we going above and beyond at this point to endure such antithetical "government" as we have?

Posted by: I'm from the gov't, and I'm here to expand your anal cavity at November 16, 2012 02:54 PM (WYR8b)

262 Love the cliff.

EMBRACE the cliff!

Posted by: jukin at November 16, 2012 02:54 PM (WGm5T)

263 You've already lost, Republicans. The moment you let "going over the fiscal cliff" be defined as addressing the nations' fiscal problems, albeit through automatic taxes and cuts, as opposed to defining itasnot addressing the nations' fiscal problems you lost.

Posted by: BVBigBro at November 16, 2012 03:04 PM (MnulM)

264
This is not the cliff you're looking for. *Jedi mind trick*
Just like the Wall Street Bailout in 2008. Much ado about nothing. Let the spam hit the fan. People will be surprised at how painless it really is.

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at November 16, 2012 03:16 PM (n8LUb)

265 in other words: Let..It..Burn!

Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn at November 16, 2012 03:20 PM (n8LUb)

266 261 IFTGAIHTHY,

um..."no we really do not want Ogabevare....no we will not set up an exchange, no we will not pay the tax, no we do not defer to IPAB"

or you know the last 4 years.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 16, 2012 03:31 PM (LRFds)

267 We either need to really out flank them on the tax the rich, 75% and a cap on deductions at $50,000. Name specific Billionaires and the deductions that they all use and end them, or cap them at a set limit that will cost those people serious money (enough to make even them blanch) earmark that money for the debt not for spending on programs.

Go after Hollywood, talk about how Star Wars still hasn't made money according to them, then explain how they do it and how we will end it.

Run tv adds with Paul Ryan explaining each point during Prime time, not on the news. Go directly to the people and do an end run around Obama and the msm that covers for him.

Then if Obama still gives us a crap deal just vote present and let him own it.

Posted by: southdakotaboy at November 16, 2012 03:50 PM (ZIWkB)

268 So what you are saying, Comrade, is that Dear Leader has yet again suckered the running-dog lackeys of the military-industrial mongrel GOP.


Posted by: Comrade Trainer at November 16, 2012 03:51 PM (QbdUW)

269 It seems like, if the Democrats get what they want, we go over the fiscal cliff anyways. So why not throw the ball back in their court and say "You are the governing party. You deal with it."

Posted by: Angrybell at November 16, 2012 04:13 PM (cQ6oO)

270
The only way the Republicans can come out of this unscathed is to say "whatever you guys want, Barry, Harry, and Nancy!" The Dems and the media will pin everything else on them. Heck, the media will TRY to blame the Republicans even if they agree to do in the House anything and everything the Senate Dems want. (It is a mental disorder, afterall).
In short- Let it burn. Just make sure they are on video setting it alight.

Posted by: MrMosis at November 16, 2012 04:38 PM (okywC)

271 We're going to have a recession. We're going to have a recession? We're in an eff'ing depression, and you think there's going to be "another recession"? WTF OMG BBQ

Posted by: The inexplicable Dr. Julius Strangepork at November 16, 2012 04:59 PM (FIvn0)

272 41, 69 Just a guess mind you, but I would look for a Constitution trashing power grab on the brink of that. Seriously, Venezuelan style. For. The. Children. The Obamaphones will never notice, .... or care. FreeShitArmy will be dancing in the streets.
Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 16, 2012 01:44 PM (Dmr+R)

This. This is why I can not bring myself to give in to thelet-it-burn mindset. Economic/societal collapse does not often end in, to borrow a phrase from Niall Ferguson,happy-clappy democracies, but more often in tyranny/dictatorships. The American Revolution was the rare exception to the rule, andthrough it our foundersgave the world a society like no other before it. If it dies, how long, if ever, might it be before humankind again experiences the tasteofreal liberty?

The left has been planning this collapse for 100 years. The unions are only too happy to contribute to the cause (see Hostess). It's a certainty that oncethe statists haveaccomplished their mission, they will also be standing by ready to answer the cries of HELP! HELP! SOMEONE SAVE US!

I can not begin to imagine the hardships and suffering endured by those who fought for our independence, or of all those who have died forthe cause of freedom since. Ifa way can be foundtofight this, I want to be part of it.

Posted by: EyeTest at November 16, 2012 05:39 PM (ReC4P)

273 Remember, never forget.....all government debt gets reduced to zero...1. paid according to contract; 2. paid with worthless inflated money, or 3. default.

Both wings of the bigger government party (rep and dem) plan on inflating it away. None who have held high office in the last 80 years ever intended to pay according to contract.

Posted by: jpinx at November 16, 2012 05:54 PM (RnvaE)

274 Goodbye America, I hardly knew ya.

Posted by: Blacksmith8✡ at November 16, 2012 06:00 PM (Yzu6e)

275 "All in all, the Democrats have arranged to win on all their spending and taxing objectives, and all they have to do is nothing."

Um ... didn't Republicans AGREE to this?

The only reason sequestration exists is because Republicans voted for it to exist.

We would not be here today - with Democrats having to do nothing to accomplish everything their little hearts desire, if Republicans would STOP. VOTING. FOR. TEMPORARY. TAX. CUTS.

Tax cuts which "expire" are just tax cuts with automatic tax increases as the "balloon payment."

Republicans can stop Democrats from winning.

It's fucking simple. And they don't have to do ANYTHING.

All they have to do is NOT VOTE. And here's how:

The country runs out of borrowing authority in January. Now ... Democrats want to borrow some more. Why? So they can send some payoffs to the teachers unions, and fund green energy, and hand out some more ObamaPhones to every one of their supporters.

Republicans do not have to allow that. And they need do nothing. They don't have to vote. Republicans control the House and they control what bills come before the House.

So all they have to do is not have a bill come before the House to raise the debt limit. Don't even have to vote. Because there won't be any bill to vote for.

This is how you defeat Democrats. You DEFUND Democrats. You end their spending spree by eliminating their ability to borrow money.

And you let the chips fall where they may.

Posted by: someguy at November 16, 2012 06:42 PM (sEXZ/)

276 Now, I Won, wants to implement his main plan: Taking over our private retirement accounts for redistribution: (I told you, there goes your inheritance, kids)
http://noisyroom.net/blog/2012...

Posted by: Jane at November 16, 2012 08:31 PM (QymHG)






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