A Brief 1,700 Word Point About Prometheus

There was so much about this movie I didn't like it takes a long post to explain it all. (There's a lot I liked, in the beginning, too; but I guess everyone says that.)

Let me just make a general observation.

Space travel in fiction has two major tropes in its depiction. I'm calling these the Institutional Phase, and the Commercial Phase.

The beginning of space travel -- and this is the same for any previous mode of difficult transportation -- is the Institutional Phase. This is the period in which only rich governments or the sci-fi standby of the Large Evil Corporation Which Has Some Governmental-Like Powers and Attributes can build and launch a spacecraft.

The Commercial Phase comes later in science fiction, as it has in the past, and as it would actually unfold in the future. The Commercial Phase comes when the technology has matured enough to make it practical for small private owners. In the Commercial Phase, space travel is relatively common, almost mundane. It might be a bit expensive, but you can still cross a good part of the galaxy in exchange for a down payment equal to the cost of an old, beat-up Landspeeder. It's not cheap, but you generally expect that if you have a few thousand credits you can hire yourself a flight to almost anywhere.

The Institutional Phase is Star Trek; the Commercial Phase is Star Wars.

In terms of the look of each -- the Institutional Phase likes the color white, for both exteriors and interiors. It is marked by the NASA aesthetic -- stuff sort of looks like NASA designs stuff, because the Institutional Phase is nearer-future, so we expect it to look more like the designs we see in the present. It's clean -- often pristine -- because any government rich enough to afford a spaceship is also rich enough to hire on some janitors or, more likely, janitorial robots (though we usually do not see these things in space travel movies-- we see them more in near-future earthbound movies).

The Commercial Phase's dominant color is gray, naked metal, because painting ships white is an unnecessary expense. Sure, governments have money to burn and so paint them in the Institutional Phase, but the Commercial Phase is filled with private owners who are often short of cash and can barely afford parts and fuel, nevermind pretty white paint. The look is dirty and worn -- the "worn future" look I think Lucas called it -- for the same reason your typical Old West stagecoach was probably dirty and worn. Because the owner doesn't have a lot of money, and the coach itself is probably 10 years old, bought well into its obsolesence curve, probably from a richer company or a government office at auction.

Note that in the Commercial Phase you see plenty of Institutional Phase stuff -- the Galactic Empire has nicely painted hallways, and their ships are obviously much younger than the Millennium Falcon. The Alliance ships in Firefly are very pretty indeed. But of course that's just because Institutions continue to exist, well into the Commercial Phase.

That's the look. But more importantly is the type of characters you'd expect to see. This is important: In the Institutional Phase, you're going to have a lot of military types, and they are going to be highly competent and very well psychologically balanced. The reason is simple: if you only have one or two spacehips, but a population of billions, you can afford to rigidly screen your staff to make sure they're detail-oriented go-getter who Play Well With Others and who have proven in the past they can function well in a rigid military heirarchy (as a ship must be -- especially if it's an experimental sort of ship where Protocols Must Be Followed because people have barely any experience at all with this sort of thing).

Only in the Commercial Phase are you going to start seeing the kinds of people who would never get a job on a spaceship -- not even as janitor -- as the staff on a ship in the Institutional Phase. Han Solo, for example, is not only a career criminal, but he also yells a lot, trusts his instincts (and his instincts aren't especially sound), hits on his passengers, and gets into pointless arguments with androids.

Han Solo is a damned good pilot but he'd never have a chance to demonstrate that in the Institutional Phase. His background check would turn up all his previous Imperial Entanglements, and his psychological profile would tag him as a selfish, grandiose hothead who's liable to shoot at a door without first making sure its magnetic seal isn't engaged, thus causing a comical ricochet around the walls of a trash compactor.

Now, the Commercial Phase permits a wide range of personality and occupational types. The setting permits hotheads, mercenaries, goons, and Space Hookers. But in the Institutional Phase, you're going to have a much less diversity: Most people are going to be ex-military, most people are going to have advanced degrees (including the military people), and virtually everyone is going to be of a pretty well-balanced, controlled, cool-tempered personality type.

No government or corporation spends $10 trillion building a ship and then says, "Hey, let's put the Loose-Canon Rebel Who Plays By His Own Rules in command."

The Institutional Phase story doesn't really suggest a lot of personality conflicts, then. For this reason, if you're trying to be somewhat realistic about it, you're going to be missing something fun in drama, which is people yelling at each other and undermining each other's authority and making lots of wisecracks in dangerous situations where you really should be pretty quiet and awaiting your next order.

A lot of science fiction movies -- especially the horror-themed science fiction of Alien, Aliens, and all of its many imitators -- gets around this problem by killing the captain early, thus giving a plausible reason why the Chain of Command is somewhat in flux and people are backtalking their superior officers. Suddenly orders are open to debate and argument and outright subversion. Which is more interesting, dramatically.

Though not ideal, as a matter of shipboard governance. The sort of spaceship that makes for a dramatically lively movie is exactly the opposite of the ship you'd actually want to be on. When your ship is being buffeted by asteroids, you wouldn't want to hear, through your cabin door, that Han and the Princess are having yet another spat, and that even the android has grown so insubordinate over the crazy decisions the captain is making that he's had to be deactivated.

Anyway, bringing this around to Prometheus: This is an Institution Phase film. They establish that the Great Big Evil Corporation has put an awful lot of money into this vessel, and while it's not the first starfaring vessel, you get the sense that there haven't been many more than ten such ships.

And yet, who's on this ship? You have an extremely surly Punk Rock Geologist Rebel for some reason. This guy passed the psychological exam? First guy who tries to make friendly, post-hypersleep conversation with him gets a gruff answer and is immediately told "I'm only in this for the money."

Only in it for the money? You had a planetary population of ten billion (let's say) to choose from and you couldn't find a Geologist who was actually interested in achieving the goals of the mission? You just grabbed up the guy who had no professional or scientific motivation, but just wanted a hundred thousand bucks?

Were the all the other Geologists unavailable?

Even assuming this guy was "The Best In His Field" -- I don't think they say that, but let's pretend he's a Rock Star of Geology (see what I did there?) -- "The Best" is a silly sort of claim. The guys at the top of the field are usually pretty close together in terms of qualification. Who "The Best" is is usually a pretty debatable proposition.

Here's what I would have looked for in a Geologist on this ten trillion dollar spacecraft making a first-of-its-kind flight to a distant planet:

1. No mowhak, no facial piercings, and no facial or neck tattoos. Sorry to be all lookist, but this guy is broadcasting his philosophical adherence to the Cult of Noncomformity, and I think on this flight, I'll choose the conformist. Give me the guy with the Tom Cruise haircut, please. That guy would be signalling his comfort in an orderly, rules-based environment, in which following the chain of command is of capital importance. Which, hey! It turns out that's what this flight is.

2. A motivation greater than money. Money equals comfort -- future comfort, yes, but it is the currency of comfort. A dangerous spaceflight, cramped conditions, boredom, and an even more dangerous landing on an alien world are inherently uncomfortable things. So I'd choose the guy who Really Wants To Be On This Mission, because only that sort of person would have the internal fortitude and resolve to handle all the many dangers and discomforts of the mission.

And the thing is, given that this is a spaceflight to an uncharted alien world which will provide years of material for research -- I think I could manage to find a Geologist who actually was sort of intrigued by the whole Adventure and Furtherance of Science thing.

3. A guy who can actually get along with other human beings. A spaceship is no bigger than, say, a suite of offices at a corporate office park. You're going to have to see these people a lot. You're going to have to work with them a lot. You are going to have to be in their company almost every waking minute for the next year or two.

I'm going to go with the guy who's first words out of hypersleep, to a man who just greeted him and introduced himself, aren't a variation on "F*** you, I'm eating cereal."

4. A guy who doesn't shit himself and go stir crazy at the first hint of... I don't even know if "danger" is the right word What he went crazy over was the first hint of... a 2000 year old dead body. He saw a 2000 year old dead body and immediately said, "F*** this insanity, I'm going to go running off on my own down an unexplored cave, where I imagine it will be safer."

Okay, I'm belaboring this point, but you get what I'm saying. How did this guy pass a psych test? What the hell is he even doing here? I don't know if this guy would actually even be on board a spaceship in the Commercial Phase, let alone the Institutional Phase.

This guy is especially egregious, but half the characters on that ship should not have been there. Charlize Theron seems, at first, like the sort of controlled personality type you'd have on board but then you quickly figure out she's a brittle personality type -- her outward iciness masking treacherously cold water churning underneath -- and she has sex with the Captain like six days into the mission. I would expect she could hold out longer than that.

The Captain is quirky -- I guess you can have a quirky person on board -- but he's also a lunatic. He plays a snatch of Steven Stills' Love The One You're With and then is shocked that Charlize Theron doesn't know who Steven Stills is.

In 2095, Steven Stills is still a thing? People didn't know who he was in nineteen ninety-five, dude. Why the hell would you expect her to know Steven Stills, and chuckle over her ignorance? Did you also expect her to know who Kajagoogoo is?

The only people who seem to belong on the ship are the crewmembers who never say a word, because at least those guys do not betray their utter lack of psychological unfitness for the mission.

So, what I think Scott did was this: He wanted quirkiness. He wanted People Motivated By Money. He wanted dirty people on board the ship. He wanted Tensions In The Chain of Command.

Essentially he wanted to remake Alien, then. But those things all seemed to work in Alien because Alien was set, pretty damn explicitly, in the Commerical Phase. Alien was about, as everyone calls them, Space Truckers. Makes sense that Yaphet Kotto and Harry Dean Stanton would only be in it for the money. Space Truckers don't get into Space Trucking for Love of Space Trucking. It's a job. They want to get paid.

Prometheus is set hundreds of years earlier in the Institutional Phase. There shouldn't be any Space Truckers, there shouldn't be any surly cowardly mohawked mercenary geologists on board ("Why did I get into Exoplanetary Geology? For the money, of course. You can really make a killing in Exoplanetary Geology"), and the Chief Corporate Officer should not be some strange mix of Ice Princess and Space Whore.

This was a really bad movie overall. I kind of hated it, hated everything past the first forty minutes. I hated it for a lot of reasons. I didn't really hate it for this reason, the plausibility of Commercial Phase character types in an Institutional Phase mission. This would be a nitpick I'd ignore if the movie weren't so awful.

But it is awful, and I think this is a halfway interesting point, so I'm just writing about this thing.

But all the rest of it was bad too.

Except the beginning parts.

It's very sad that even someone like Ridley Scott just remakes a movie -- Prometheus is just a very dumb remake of Alien with better special effects but far less impact. It's just sad that he thought he had to stay so close to Alien, down the the Space Trucker idea, even though it made no sense whatsoever in the movie's story.

Here's What I Mean: I forgot about this example.

So, they just landed on the planet. Literally, they landed on an alien, unexplored world not ten minutes ago.

It's almost dark, and the Captain -- the Captain -- says "It's getting dark, we'll make camp for the night, and go out to the ruins at dawn."

And the Scientist says, "No, I've been waiting for this for five years, I'm going now!" He literally says that, or something very close to that.

And then everyone goes now.

...?

This is what happens on a spaceship? A captain gives an order about safety, and securing the ship and the landing area, and when he will permit people to venture out, and then a passenger/specialist with no rank whatsoever gives a contrary order based on Enthusiasm and Devil May Care Excitement and everyone says, "Hey, let's listen to the stubble-bearded scientist guy, the captain's all wet"?

This is what happens on interstellar spaceflights to unknown alien worlds which are strongly suspected to be inhabited? (That's the whole point, they think there's life on the planet.)

People just sort of make up their own minds about whether the Captain has authority to give orders, or the stubble-bearded, over-emotional drunk of a scientist does?

I could see this happening in Star Wars. Han gives an order, and Leia, being Leia, decides to be Her Bratty Worshipfulness and just blows him off and runs outside. (Except it would be Leia urging caution, and Han ignoring her, but it could happen the other way. Leia likes defying Han.)

Star Wars is commercial phase, and also comical. They're funny movies. They have a comedic spirit. (The originals, I mean.)

But in a "realistic, serious" movie about an Institutional Phase first exploration of an inhabited alien world? The Captain gives an order, and the crew -- who, incidentally, he could literally kill with a pistol for being insubordinate and risking the safety of the ship; he has that power as captain, presumably, as a captain has now-- just decides "The hell with Captain Poo Poo Pants, he's a big fuddy-duddy; a rigid military heirarchy is a green light to do whatever you want and make all of your dreams come true!" ?

Really? That's serious and realistic?


Posted by: Ace at 02:43 PM



Comments

1 Short???

Posted by: red sweater at November 15, 2012 02:44 PM (CUi62)

2 We're all itallics, now.

Posted by: Eileen at November 15, 2012 02:45 PM (CUi62)

3

Wicket goes into the barrel.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 15, 2012 02:45 PM (TIIx5)

4 I thought it was fine entertainment but I wouldn't have paid $20 to see it in a theater.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 02:46 PM (QupBk)

5
brb, readin

Posted by: soothsayer at November 15, 2012 02:46 PM (v8xyR)

6 Great, now ace changed the headline from "short" to "brief," so my comment makes no sense.

When does it go from "brief" to "concise"?

Posted by: red sweater at November 15, 2012 02:47 PM (CUi62)

7 So that happened.

Posted by: Sgt. York at November 15, 2012 02:48 PM (yk8/j)

8 must say i preferred the "Skyfall review"

Posted by: phreshone at November 15, 2012 02:48 PM (MAhUT)

9 It *started* short.

Then it became long.

So I changed the headline to make a joke about that.

I hated this g***amn movie.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 02:48 PM (LCRYB)

10 Though not ideal, as a matter of shipboard governance. The sort of spaceship that makes for a dramatically lively movie is exactly the opposite of the ship you'd actually want to be on. When your ship is being buffeted by asteroids, you wouldn't want to hear, through your cabin door, that Han and the Princess are having yet another spat, and that even the android has grown so insubordinate over the crazy decisions the captain is making that he's had to be deactivated.

I just want to say that that is the funniest thing I've read since you wrote about: "They're no longer stoked by Mr. Unprecedented. They lack bestokelment."

Posted by: Daybrother at November 15, 2012 02:49 PM (+paCV)

11 Too bad pixie can't close Italics automatically.

But, this post is Ace's slant, so....

Posted by: © Sponge at November 15, 2012 02:50 PM (UK9cE)

12 Oh, and I want to add that I thought the visuals were so cool that I forgave the fact that they shot it without a plan or a script.

Posted by: Daybrother at November 15, 2012 02:51 PM (+paCV)

13 thanks to you I don't want to see the move now. My weekend is ruined.

Posted by: mallfly at November 15, 2012 02:51 PM (bJm7W)

14 scrollscrollscrollscrollscroll

breathe

scrollscrollscrollscrollscroll......

Posted by: Muad'dib at November 15, 2012 02:51 PM (KjlbF)

15 Let it burn???

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 02:51 PM (RrD4h)

16 I don't watch many movies because I don't like many movies. I do like television. I am rewatching Boardwalk Empires. I like it more watching all the seasons in a row. It is easier to follow. None of the characters are sympathetic because they are murderers or women who live off the earinings of their murdering bfs/husbands.

Posted by: Walkers! at November 15, 2012 02:51 PM (7l6VK)

17 If it worth writing about, is it worth seeing?

Posted by: sophistahick at November 15, 2012 02:52 PM (UhXzR)

18 tl:dr

Kidding! I'm kidding! I'm a kidder!

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 15, 2012 02:52 PM (sbV1u)

19 was there any sex? Barky and Reggie in a fantasy flashback no counts.

Posted by: mallfly at November 15, 2012 02:52 PM (bJm7W)

20 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 15, 2012 02:53 PM (5DR1j)

21 Too bad pixie can't close Italics automatically.

Apparently, Pixy can't afford the 10 bytes of static code it would take to at least contain the html breakage to the post or to the comment.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 02:53 PM (QupBk)

22 So I'm going with "ace didn't like this one."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 15, 2012 02:53 PM (5DR1j)

23 was there an appearance by Jabba the Wasserman Schultz?

Posted by: mallfly at November 15, 2012 02:53 PM (bJm7W)

24 I couldn't stand the movie and my wife stopped watching it in the middle and pulled out the laptop and surfed the internet.

And at the ending, the only fucking alien they met wanted to kill them and the entire earth. So the stupid bitch goes, I want to go ask them why.

WTF? Why would they tell you fucking idiot? And wouldn't you feel a duty to warn the human race?

The movie sucked

Posted by: Mr pink at November 15, 2012 02:53 PM (EJr9e)

25 Given the title, I thought the movie'd be about a fake limb or somthin.

Posted by: sophistahick at November 15, 2012 02:53 PM (UhXzR)

26 I thought Han Solo was piloting his own private ship. And for more realistic SF space stuff you can not be David Weber. Ace the genre you are looking for for that is Space Opera. It is essentially wet Navy tales converted to space.


And you are right, flakes and psychos not wanted.

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 02:53 PM (YdQQY)

27 Stephen Stills.

Hahaha... that's an awesome mistake. Really makes your point.

Posted by: Concern Troll at November 15, 2012 02:53 PM (b1iOR)

28 Minor nitpick: Star Trek isn't a perfect example of Institutional Phase except for Enterprise. TOS was already in transition to Commercial Phase (Harry Mudd, Cyrano Jones), and TNG/DS9 was there.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 02:53 PM (B/VB5)

29
Its funny how most the sci-fi uses 'credits' as the name for money. Technically, we are kinda there, since 97% of US dollars are just electronic anyway. Some futuristic stories use some other term, but a lot of writers go for 'credits'. I predict by 2030 we will have a worldwide 'credit' as everybody's money. We will really be boned then.

As far as this movie, I think I will skip it, unless there are Charlize boobs again, in which I will watch until that part.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 02:53 PM (3BbLJ)

30 Speaking of "Institutional Phase" movies: Forbidden Planet.

I've just realized that my wife still hasn't seen this movie. I need to check to see if it's been added to the Netflix streaming catalog recently.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at November 15, 2012 02:54 PM (4+LTj)

31 I was middle aged when I started reading this review.

Posted by: eureka! at November 15, 2012 02:54 PM (UL+ny)

32 Oh yeah, forgot: "Let it burn" etc etc so forth....

Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 02:54 PM (+paCV)

33 will the movie make Boehner cry?

Posted by: mallfly at November 15, 2012 02:54 PM (bJm7W)

34
Ace: ..."This was a really bad movie overall. I kind of hated it, hated everything past the first forty minutes."

-----

Yeah, Ace...it was a waste of good special effects.

The timeline is still very hazy to me...in all of these 'Alien' movies.
Prometheus made it even hazier.

And I still don't see the technology level displayed, to support being able to create 'androids' of the advanced level that are displayed in all these 'Alien' movies.

Posted by: wheatie at November 15, 2012 02:54 PM (ICEh3)

35 >>>If it worth writing about, is it worth seeing?

It is worth paying a small amount of money to see, because the special effects are truly great. Things look great. The ship looks great. The starfield behind it looks great. The planet they land on looks insanely great.

It looks real. Beautiful.

If you're the type of person who can enjoy a movie for getting a very few visual things right, while being generally awful in terms of story and character, yeah, you should see it.

If you insist on the movie getting the story and characters right-- then don't.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 02:54 PM (LCRYB)

36 Did you like Charlize Theron's parts?

Posted by: Inquisitive Perv at November 15, 2012 02:55 PM (VkUP+)

37 It *started* short.
Then it became long.
So I changed the headline to make a joke about that.
I hated this g***amn movie.


The first rule about jokes about the length of ace's posts: You DO NOT MAKE JOKES ABOUT THE LENGTH OF ACE'S POSTS!

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at November 15, 2012 02:55 PM (BrQrN)

38 The fuel tanks on the white space shuttle were brown. What the hell does that mean?

Posted by: Dang at November 15, 2012 02:55 PM (R18D0)

39 >>>Star Trek isn't a perfect example of Institutional Phase except for Enterprise. TOS was already in transition to Commercial Phase

ahhh... you're kind of mostly right, but in TOS most ships were institutional, even the Klingon and Romulan ones, and of course the main ship was.

Sure, there were some commercial ships here and there.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 02:55 PM (LCRYB)

40 It is worth paying a small amount of money to see, because the special effects are truly great.

So if I'm already paying for Netflix or cable, then.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at November 15, 2012 02:56 PM (4+LTj)

41 My biggest complaint was that almost none of the characters were likeable. That plus their tendency to do dumb, inexplicable things made it hard to care about what happens to them.

In general people want to watch movies about people as smart or smarter than themselves - disagreeable characters with bad judgment not so much. if I wanted to see that I'd just go visit my cousins.

Posted by: Mćtenloch at November 15, 2012 02:56 PM (pAlYe)

42 As for the movie itself I had no intention of seeing it. I may have been willing to rent the Blu-Ray for a few dollars but I no longer have that option.

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 02:57 PM (YdQQY)

43 I woulda been first, but I read the review, then posted.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at November 15, 2012 02:57 PM (lOmbq)

44 Tell me this, if I turn off my brain, and just "let it happen" is it at least fun? Or does it miss the fun, too?

For instance, a lot of people hated the second Transformers movie. I liked it. I liked it because I got exactly what I was expecting- a bunch of giant robots beating each other up, and explosions.

That I had to put up with Shia LaBouf was a sacrifice, I'll admit, but I also got to stare at Megan Fox, so I call that a wash.

People were complaining about the story, and the acting. I didn't care about those, I cared about giant robot fights and explosions. Also Megan Fox's hot bod.

So, all of that is to say, is there any set of expectations (beyond, "yeah, it's going to suck") that would make Prometheus worth watching?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 15, 2012 02:57 PM (5DR1j)

45 38 The fuel tanks on the white space shuttle were brown. What the hell does that mean?

Yet the big one in the middle was white. Racism at NASA? Details at 11...

Posted by: Rob McNeece at November 15, 2012 02:57 PM (hNXHo)

46 one thing I always wondered about: who paid for those enormous spaceships? Did Barky get the tax rates he really wanted?

Posted by: mallfly at November 15, 2012 02:57 PM (bJm7W)

47 Star Trek isn't a perfect example of Institutional Phase except for
Enterprise. TOS was already in transition to Commercial Phase


Even with the "Pan Am" product placement, 2001 was an Institutional Phase movie.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at November 15, 2012 02:57 PM (4+LTj)

48 You can't campare Star Wars and Star Trek to the Alien series. Star Wars / Trek is fantasy, Alien is (bad) sci-fi. One at least gives lip-service to realism.

Posted by: the antichrist at November 15, 2012 02:57 PM (xXhWA)

49 Damn

you can not BEAT David Weber

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 02:58 PM (YdQQY)

50 Ace -

If you haven't read the ORIGINAL SCRIPT for Prometheus that someone here (was it rdbrewer?) posted on the sidebar, you really, really should. It actually answers several of your complaints (well, everyone's complaints) about the plausibility of the characters and their behaviors, as well as filling in plot holes. It would have been a fine, honorable prequel to Alien (which, as some here know, is my single favorite movie of all time).

Apparently the real story about why Prometheus came out as something so narratively and characterizationally messed-up is because Scott was under the gun budget-wise: the original script was a far more impressive movie...but would have been much, much more expensive to film, in terms of SFX. So Damon Lindelof was brought in to rewrite it with an eye towards reducing the final price tag. The final dog's breakfast is what we got as a result.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 15, 2012 02:58 PM (QZYtq)

51 Oh that evil sock

Posted by: the lone lemon at November 15, 2012 02:58 PM (xXhWA)

52 >>>Tell me this, if I turn off my brain, and just "let it happen" is it at least fun?

No, it's anti-fun, it's trying so hard to be Serious, and its idea of serious is grim. And bitchy. Characters are bitchy.

I do have to stress how amazing the stars, ship, and planet look, though.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 02:58 PM (LCRYB)

53 "Tell me this, if I turn off my brain, and just "let it happen" is it at least fun?"

No.

Posted by: Knemon at November 15, 2012 02:58 PM (ZPhyj)

54 >>>Alien is (bad) sci-fi.

Fool.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 15, 2012 02:59 PM (QZYtq)

55 "is there any set of expectations (beyond, "yeah, it's going to suck") that would make Prometheus worth watching?"

Watch it with the sound off and music playing, and *maybe.*

Posted by: Knemon at November 15, 2012 02:59 PM (ZPhyj)

56 Maybe you could read this into a mike and post the MP3? We could listen as we comment and read. Serious. Not jabbing.

Posted by: Butters at November 15, 2012 02:59 PM (NIZHJ)

57 Agree -- it could have been better, but I was still entertained.

Posted by: Anabolic State at November 15, 2012 03:00 PM (kTDu2)

58 Seen it. I have no desire to ever see it again. This is in contrast to Aliens, which I will happily view every year or so.

That's the difference between good writing and good storytelling. Prometheus had a story that wasn't at all interesting. And hardly any character development to speak of.

Posted by: OregonMuse at November 15, 2012 03:00 PM (9GaPd)

59 Well, that's another 15 minutes I'll never get back.

Posted by: DumboTheAvenger at November 15, 2012 03:00 PM (XrGnJ)

60 So Ace, I guess we should let it burn... The movie that is....

Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna let it burn really.really bummed at November 15, 2012 03:00 PM (9+ccr)

61 Nice. I couldn't stop reading.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 15, 2012 03:01 PM (Iyg03)

62

"But it is awful, and I think this is a halfway interesting point, so I'm just writing about this thing.

But all the rest of it was bad too."
Said it on another thread, Ace, but it's an oil painting. About puppets. When a movie has me not care if any character lives or dies, it really just a glossy trade publication. And, spoiler alert, no boobies.

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 03:01 PM (BoE3Z)

63 You could boil it down Ace:
None of the characters are really believable. Their motives are stupid, they are generally too stupid to be in their situation, and their actions will make you cringe. Other than that, it was awesome.
The next day you'll say to yourself, "That movie was amazing. Why didn't they have a writer?"

Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 03:01 PM (+paCV)

64 I just watched Wrath of Khan. I DVR'd it from a free Cinamax weekend. That's still a good movie. I can't see donating my money to anything hollywood puts out. I havn't seen anything worth a crap in years.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 15, 2012 03:01 PM (3Y7RV)

65 I love you, ace.

I will gladly make you a sammich at any time.

seriously.

Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 03:02 PM (ou/rY)

66
41My biggest complaint was that almost none of the characters were likeable. That plus their tendency to do dumb, inexplicable things made it hard to care about what happens to them.

--------------

One of the worst examples of this...was at the end, when Charlize Theron's character allowed herself to be crushed by the giant ship.

She didn't even try to get out of it's way!
She stayed in the obvious path it was falling in.

Posted by: wheatie at November 15, 2012 03:02 PM (ICEh3)

67 Alien isn't even really sci-fi. It's a sci-fi fascade over a typical haunted house horror movie.

Aliens is (sort-of) sci-fi.

Okay, if it's not fun, I'll skip it.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 15, 2012 03:02 PM (5DR1j)

68 You can't campare Star Wars and Star Trek to the Alien series. Star Wars
/ Trek is fantasy, Alien is (bad) sci-fi. One at least gives
lip-service to realism.


Regarding Trek: when it works, it's sci-fi. One of the forms of sci-fi is how technology interacts with humanity, and Trek's got that. Sometimes.

Star Wars is definitely Cambellian Epic Hero stuff, as is the execrable Star Trek reboot.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at November 15, 2012 03:02 PM (4+LTj)

69 And, spoiler alert, no boobies.


Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 03:01 PM (BoE3Z)

That's not a spoiler. That's a PSA.

Posted by: Concern Troll at November 15, 2012 03:02 PM (b1iOR)

70
Prometheus 2 (????) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2316204/

Of course.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 03:02 PM (QupBk)

71 No, it's anti-fun, it's trying so hard to be Serious, and its idea of serious is grim. And bitchy. Characters are bitchy.


I had read that somewhere else also. Which is why I have no intention of seeing it. I watch movies mainly to be entertained. I don't need to "pay" to be depressed and pissed off. Choomboy accomplishes that enough already.

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 03:02 PM (YdQQY)

72 I hated this g***amn movie.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 02:48 PM (LCRYB)


I think that you are overlooking some fine qualities. The film itself was technically quite fine. The sets were great, the cinematography was excellent, etc. Even the 3D was well done.

And...I think the premise was fantastic. A bunch of lunatic engineers who like to fuck with other planets with their fantastic technology, and then blow it all up when it doesn't work?

Sounds like Obama and the Democrats, except for the fantastic technology.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 15, 2012 03:02 PM (GsoHv)

73 My entire crew would have consisted of "expert" synthetics, not one of which would have been obsessed with quirky human schlock.

Posted by: Fritz at November 15, 2012 03:03 PM (/ZZCn)

74 is there any set of expectations (beyond, "yeah, it's going to suck") that would make Prometheus worth watching?

I hear Theron's ass looks Aeon Flux tight?

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at November 15, 2012 03:03 PM (BrQrN)

75
So which is worse, this or avatar? I couldn't last more than 45 minutes of that piece of crap with those stupid blue people. I considered suicide watching that thing. This is from someone who mildly enjoyed Sharktopus vs Crocasaurous.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 03:03 PM (3BbLJ)

76 Speaking of movies, here's a thirty second movie with a surprise ending.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/atsyd6m

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 15, 2012 03:04 PM (Hx5uv)

77 Was the moster as good as the Cloverfield monster. Now that's a damn fine monster.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 15, 2012 03:04 PM (3Y7RV)

78 ....."
I think that you are overlooking some fine qualities. The film
itself was technically quite fine. The sets were great, the
cinematography was excellent, etc. Even the 3D was well done."

A Prius commercial.

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 03:04 PM (BoE3Z)

79 Didn't see the movie yet. I did see where someone wrote that it was alluded the Alien from Alien was a product of thier screwing with the black ooze stuff.

Of course, that would cause a continuity error as the Predator v. Aliens movies are present day, and yeah, Aliens.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 03:04 PM (t06LC)

80 Did you read the entire post? I did.

And so, my first question is for the lady who gently reprimanded me for over-analyzing the absurdities and internal inconsistencies of the pre-Daniel Craig Bond films, to wit:

Madam, HOW MY ASS TASTE?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2012 03:04 PM (U1kBg)

81 >>a bunch of giant robots beating each other up, and explosions

but it's annoying as hell because much of the time you can't tell where one robot begins and the other ends and you can't tell if the 'good' robot is winning or losing.

Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at November 15, 2012 03:04 PM (SDkq3)

82 This might have been the first movie where I was hoping all of them would get killed.

The characters were that unlikeable.

Oh--and did you know that you could just hop into any alien spacecraft and take off for light years without any food or water?

Unless you are planning on eating some cyborg's head.

Posted by: tasker at November 15, 2012 03:05 PM (r2PLg)

83 The first rule about jokes about the length of ace's posts: You DO NOT MAKE JOKES ABOUT THE LENGTH OF ACE'S POSTS!

What about the width? Women only care about the width anyway, right?

Right?

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at November 15, 2012 03:05 PM (QF8uk)

84 "No, it's anti-fun, it's trying so hard to be Serious, and its idea of serious is grim. And bitchy. Characters are bitchy.
"

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 02:58 PM (LCRYB)


Okay, this is an excellent point, or rather a fact. It is unassailable.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 15, 2012 03:05 PM (GsoHv)

85 Alien isn't even really sci-fi. It's a sci-fi fascade over a typical haunted house horror movie.

Alien is a slasher flick in a sci-fi setting, in much the same way Trek was originally pitched as "Wagon Train to the stars". (A description taken far more literally by Firefly, of course).

Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 03:05 PM (B/VB5)

86 but it's annoying as hell because much of the time you can't tell where one robot begins and the other ends and you can't tell if the 'good' robot is winning or losing.
Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at November 15, 2012 03:04 PM (SDkq3)

If they would have made them different colors like Rock em Sock em robots, Problem solved.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 15, 2012 03:05 PM (3Y7RV)

87 What was up with the old guy being a stowaway on his own ship? That makes no sense, he owns the ship. Also, why would he get out for the initial meeting? He's sickly, he's about to die, and by all accounts 2 others has already died. Yet he wants to get out and go meet the strange alien for face to face negotiations. He coulda phones it in on the ship via his cyborg.

Posted by: Mr pink at November 15, 2012 03:06 PM (EJr9e)

88 Yay, movie review!

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 03:06 PM (ZPrif)

89 My entire crew would have consisted of "expert" synthetics, not one of which would have been obsessed with quirky human schlock.

That's a shockingly good and simple point. Why a surly crew when one human Captain and crew of synthetics would get the job done?

They must be insanely expensive or something.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 03:06 PM (QupBk)

90 I will say--the visuals were interesting--the set--for maybe 20 minutes?

Tops.

Posted by: tasker at November 15, 2012 03:06 PM (r2PLg)

91 At least he didn't hit us with the London Boys this time.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 15, 2012 03:06 PM (da5Wo)

92 I agree with Ace that not one single character has a believeable motivation, and the story is so un-storylike. It's more like a slice of future life than a story. And half of it makes no sense if you translate it to Alien as a pre-story.

But the visuals were nice. If you go into it with low expectations, and since I just saw it this past weekend after all the bad reviews, I went in with rock-bottom expectations, it's not a waste of film. It has a few moments worth the beer.

Posted by: Raving Lunatic at November 15, 2012 03:07 PM (reXpC)

93 87
What was up with the old guy being a stowaway on his own ship? That
makes no sense, he owns the ship. Also, why would he get out for the
initial meeting? He's sickly, he's about to die, and by all accounts 2
others has already died. Yet he wants to get out and go meet the strange
alien for face to face negotiations. He coulda phones it in on the ship
via his cyborg.

Is that you, Harry Plinkett?

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 03:07 PM (BoE3Z)

94 Proemetheus like inception was an incromprehensible pile of twaddle.

Such a waste!

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 03:07 PM (RrD4h)

95 So, where's page 2 of the review?

Posted by: dantesed at November 15, 2012 03:07 PM (se6KE)

96 Hey, I'm on a fuckin' break. See ya in an hour.

Posted by: robot janitor union at November 15, 2012 03:07 PM (nkiQM)

97 1700 words??

Oy...my head hurts.

Posted by: dananjcon out of self imposed political blog exile to say Oy my head hurts at November 15, 2012 03:08 PM (jvd3N)

98 This might have been the first movie where I was hoping all of them would get killed.

Hello?! Watchmen!

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 03:08 PM (QupBk)

99 will the movie make Boehner cry?

---

If Springsteen is in it, it'll make Christie weep.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 15, 2012 03:08 PM (Hx5uv)

100 At least he didn't hit us with the London Boys this time.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 15, 2012 03:06 PM (da5Wo)


You say that like London Boys is a bad thing.

Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 03:08 PM (ou/rY)

101 >>>And...I think the premise was fantastic. A bunch of lunatic engineers who like to fuck with other planets with their fantastic technology, and then blow it all up when it doesn't work?

Meh. It's all contrived. It's a haunted house with a bunch of Different Monsters and the reason there are so many Different Monsters (almost as many as in a Dungeons and Dragons module!) is that these other aliens liked making Different Monsters and see, they made this Different Monster Factory and this ship has landed in the Different Monster Factory so there are all sorts of Different Monsters.

Plus, it's just Cthulhu. I don't really have a problem with this, exactly, but it's some well-worn territory for a lot of us.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 03:08 PM (LCRYB)

102 So is that why the policeman has a shiny new cruiser and I make due with a ten year old mini-van.

Posted by: Jean at November 15, 2012 03:08 PM (+oKKW)

103 98 I do that sometimes.

Posted by: Butters at November 15, 2012 03:08 PM (NIZHJ)

104
Promethius was a jumbled mess. Now, the original Alien was a sci-fi/horror masterpiece. I was all up for a good prequel, which ProM wasn't. It was a disappointment, even with RS at the helm, and I don't care why. The budget excuse is particularly lame, someone with RS's reputation should be able to get anything he wishes from a studio.

But I did manage to scrape $17 to go watch it in Imax 3-D, which I'd never seen before, so that was pretty kewl. If they release the Director's Cut in time for the Holidays, I'll ask Santa for the DVD. Other than that, meh.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at November 15, 2012 03:09 PM (lOmbq)

105 Han Solo was actually in the Imperial Academy to become a flight officer. He just didn't appreciate the whole 'enslaving species' thing, so he got drummed out.

Posted by: ChrisValentine at November 15, 2012 03:09 PM (j6QBF)

106 cliff notes?

Posted by: Jones in CO at November 15, 2012 03:09 PM (8sCoq)

107 No bullywugs!

Posted by: Jean at November 15, 2012 03:09 PM (+oKKW)

108 If Springsteen sings my ears bleed for some reason.

Posted by: dantesed at November 15, 2012 03:09 PM (se6KE)

109 in space.... no one can hear you yawn..

Posted by: wm flip at November 15, 2012 03:09 PM (lB/5N)

110 I was expecting a picture of London Boys instead of a thoughtful, insightful analysis. I'm disappointed.

Posted by: Michael the Hobbitt at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (hzV1U)

111 The Commercial Phase comes when the technology has matured enough to make it practical for small private owners.

Firefly. Browncoats unite!

Posted by: rickb223 Let. It. Burn. at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (+rAQb)

112 I happen to like ace's movie reveiws.

Next up - music review of "Burning down the House" and "The Roof is on Fire." Hopefully we can do "Backdraft" at some point before an indy project I'm working on, "Things are really screwed up, thanks you assholes, let the mother burn." Why? Some men just like to watch the world burn.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (t06LC)

113 I should mention that my specialty is a grilled brie and chocolate panini. Don't mock until you've tried it.

Or I do a mean bacon grilled cheese with tomato.

Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (ou/rY)

114 106 cliff notes?
Posted by: Jones in CO at November 15, 2012 03:09 PM (8sCoq)

Manuscript.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (3Y7RV)

115 I never liked Alien or any of the crappy sequels. That movie just refuses to die. At least the Anachonda sequels (dumb as they might be - yes, I was amazed that anyone would make a sequel to that, even SyFy or whatever the name is) were launched by an entertaining original. Alien just blew chunks. It was good for the first 45 minutes, but that was it. And yet, it continues on and on and on ...

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (X3lox)

116
I hated this POS too. But what is still bothering me is simply this, why were the giants (you know the creators of human kind) so pissed off? Why were they such angry fuckers?

Posted by: Sgt. Fury at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (wmR6i)

117 And...I think the premise was fantastic. A bunch of lunatic engineers
who like to {engineer} other planets with their fantastic technology, and
then blow it all up when it doesn't work?


I take it you never played Traveller all the way to the end, and met Grandfather.

Pretty much the premise behind the whole game.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (4+LTj)

118 This might have been the first movie where I was hoping all of them would get killed.
==================================
That movie would be Marmaduke. Just speaking for myself. Maybe also Madea's Witness Protection.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (jucos)

119 >>>I will say--the visuals were interesting--the set--for maybe 20 minutes?

Tops.

I think slightly longer because the planet is spectacular. The opening footage of prehistoric earth is wonderful (until the dumb alien).

I think if you turned off the sound and played the first 40 minutes to Dark Side of the Moon, and got really high, it would be a good thing.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (LCRYB)

120 @38 For the first two Space Shuttle launches, NASA actually did paint the external tank white. But paint actually has mass, so painting the tank about added 600 pounds of extra weight. NASA determined that the white paint wasn't necessary, so they stopped painting the tank to save that extra mass.

The rust color of the external tank is from the spray-on insulation that helps keep the liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen cold and liquidy.

Here's a Wikipedia link. It includes a photo of the first Shuttle launch, and you can see the ET was white.

http://bit.ly/9hWrpW

Posted by: mr_jack at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (TMG3G)

121 Describing the technical aspects and visuals as great reminds me of the old Myst game. Everyone raved about how good it was because it "looked good".


I bought a copy of it and never finished it. I thought it sucked.

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (YdQQY)

122 Now that's a damn fine monster.
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks

-----------------------------------------------------------------

Different kind of monster and not as cool as Cloverfield, but yes, the alien "infant" eating/impregnating the alien scene was very well done I thought. Creepy.

Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 03:11 PM (+paCV)

123
There's actually a good, practical reason for all that white paint and clean interiors in the Institutional Phase that really should carry over into Commercial Phase. White paint on the interior allows you to easily identify fluid leaks, arcing electrical lines etc. When a simple maintenance problem can lead to explosive decompression and asphyxiation, fault identification is really high on the list of things to catch early.

As for the movie itself, a big part of the problem is that fucking awful music. Belongs in a bad Star Trek TNG episode, not a feature film with an impeccable scifi pedigree.

And appropriately, I'm wearing my Weyland/Yutani "Building Better Worlds" T-shirt to work today.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 15, 2012 03:11 PM (TIIx5)

124
not even a bow to bewbs? wow, it really really must suck.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 03:11 PM (3BbLJ)

125 Oh, you're a space whore. That's different.

Posted by: robot janitor union at November 15, 2012 03:11 PM (nkiQM)

126 21



Apparently, Pixy can't afford the 10 bytes of static code it would
take to at least contain the html breakage to the post or to the
comment.


Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 02:53 PM (QupBk)

When you consider that the TRS-80 running the webserver only has 4KB of RAM, that 10 bytes seems like an awful lot to spend on such trivialities.

Posted by: Big McLargeHuge at November 15, 2012 03:12 PM (f1L/Z)

127 @94
Whoa. Lets not bring Inception into this. That shit was genius.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 03:12 PM (t06LC)

128 Now, why would they take the surly punk-rock geologist who was only in it for the money?

1) He knows enough about the subject to provide a legible report.

2) He's willing to subject himself to miserable conditions for an indeterminate length of time for the mere promise of future rewards upon his return.

3) Most importantly: there's a very good chance he'll die horribly out there, and we at Sciencey Supercompany GmbH won't have to put up with his whiny bullshit antics anymore.

To the institutional leadership it's a case of Win/win/super-awesome-win!

Posted by: Paperwork Ninja at November 15, 2012 03:12 PM (J991N)

129 Too much "Institutional" vs "Commercial" talk.

The only people who seem to belong on the ship are the crewmembers who never say a word, because at least those guys do not betray their utter lack of psychological unfitness for the mission.

Those were the security personnel that Weyland pre-positioned onboard. Their true purpose wasn't to help the scientists. They were there to help/protect Weyland and his own ambitions from the other crew possibly the Engineers.

What struck me as strange were the use of flamethrowers. Who the fuck uses flamethrowers (besides alexthechick) anymore? Don't they have full auto railguns with chromed barrels or lasers with sharks on the forehead?

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 03:12 PM (GQ8sn)

130 Han Solo was actually in the Imperial Academy to become a flight officer. He just didn't appreciate the whole 'enslaving species' thing, so he got drummed out.

Hanquit first!

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at November 15, 2012 03:12 PM (BrQrN)

131 No wonder you guys are so pissed off. You still pay $8.50 to see these breached T@#D$.

Posted by: Butters at November 15, 2012 03:12 PM (NIZHJ)

132 Speaking of science fiction movies, why is IFC currently showing all the Star Trek movies, except for Nemesis?

WTF does Star Trek have to do with independent films?

Posted by: Kensington at November 15, 2012 03:12 PM (znT2j)

133
re: the irreverent geologist

This character was such a jerk that I said okay I've seen this before in other movies. This guy is a big jerk and looks like a bum BUT I know it's just a setup for when later he does something extraordinary.

And then I'll say to myself, yes, that's why he was chosen for the mission. There had to be a reason, and there it is. The irreverent geologist had a purpose, after all.

But no. It did not happen that way in Prometheus. The irreverent geologist was just a jerk.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 15, 2012 03:12 PM (v8xyR)

134 When I walked out of Prometheus I said to my friend, "the writers committed professional malpractice." Prometheus : Surgery :: Cutting off the wrong leg : Standard of care.

Posted by: cmd at November 15, 2012 03:12 PM (V6OWD)

135 Great.

By all accounts, this is a shitty movie. However, now that I've invested all this time in reading a perfectly proportional length post and all the comments, I might as well see the move to judge for myself.

Posted by: jwest at November 15, 2012 03:13 PM (ZDsRL)

136 I think slightly longer because the planet is spectacular. The opening footage of prehistoric earth is wonderful (until the dumb alien).

I think if you turned off the sound and played the first 40 minutes to Dark Side of the Moon, and got really high, it would be a good thing.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (LCRYB)

__________________

Damn!

Now there's an idea.

I loved that album--although I've never smoked pot.

Some how the idea of me on pot--or any other drug scared the hell out of all my friends.

The set, the cinematography--that was great.

The rest I barely remember so it must have sucked.

Posted by: tasker at November 15, 2012 03:14 PM (r2PLg)

137 Hey, on a lighter note. Israel is massing troops along the border of Gaza for an invasion.

Now, back to the Techno POS.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 15, 2012 03:14 PM (3Y7RV)

138 Anyway, bringing this around to Prometheus:

Ace, with love and respect, you know how you avoid this sentence?

Find an editor and work with him one hour a week. Pick a piece from the week prior, get his notes, and put up a journal / checklist next to your comp.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 15, 2012 03:14 PM (uoA/0)

139 In 2095, Steven Stills is still a thing? People didn't know who he was in nineteen ninety-five, dude. Why the hell would you expect her to know Steven Stills, and chuckle over her ignorance?

---

You know who my favorite musician is? Kleischmidt the Troubadour. Yeah, he was rockin' out around Frankfurt back in the day. Boy did he get some good zingers in at Richard the Lionhearted's expense!

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 15, 2012 03:14 PM (Hx5uv)

140 BTW folks, for those of you who like David Weber and Honor Harrington space opera, the move is in production and is due out in 2014.


By then if we haven't crashed yet tickets will be $50 each and popcorn and a coke will be $100.

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 03:14 PM (YdQQY)

141 I saw this thing in the cinema, and I can hardly remember it.

Posted by: Kensington at November 15, 2012 03:14 PM (znT2j)

142 Mary Roach wrote a good book about the trials of real-life space travel, and how space programs attempt to screen candidates: Packing for Mars: The Curious Science of Life in the Void.

At Amazon: http://tinyurl.com/aztwm9l

Posted by: Pyrocles at November 15, 2012 03:14 PM (cv5Iw)

143 However, now that I've invested all this time in reading a perfectly proportional length post and all the comments, I might as well see the move to judge for myself.

Posted by: jwest at November 15, 2012 03:13 PM (ZDsRL)


Just wait until it comes on cable. Then you won't be able to get away from it.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 03:14 PM (X3lox)

144 Same for The Dark Knight Rises, I'm sorry to say.

Posted by: Kensington at November 15, 2012 03:14 PM (znT2j)

145 124

not even a bow to bewbs? wow, it really really must suck.


Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 03:11 PM (3BbLJ)
Nope, nuthin, nada. Only a stapled up belly. By the way I think Noomi Rapace is probably never gonna be anything but an odd exotic.

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 03:14 PM (BoE3Z)

146 @127

Inception!

Genius?

Heh!!!

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 03:15 PM (RrD4h)

147 I think why this one hurt is that it had potential, we wanted more out of it, and it failed like ORCA

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 03:15 PM (t06LC)

148 I hear Colorado is open---I might make a special "trip"...

Na--who am I kidding?

Posted by: tasker at November 15, 2012 03:15 PM (r2PLg)

149 1 hour 45 minutes until blood runs in the street.


TWINKIEGEDDON !!!!

Posted by: RWC at November 15, 2012 03:15 PM (fWAjv)

150 116

I hated this POS too. But what is still bothering me is simply this,
why were the giants (you know the creators of human kind) so pissed
off? Why were they such angry fuckers?

Posted by: Sgt. Fury at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (wmR6i)

The AMT.

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 03:15 PM (BoE3Z)

151 Hey, on a lighter note. Israel is massing troops along the border of Gaza for an invasion.

Now, back to the Techno POS.
Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 15, 2012 03:14 PM (3Y7RV)
---------------------------------------------------------
Too bad. They are not going to go mid-evil on their asses. Might as well not even go in.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 03:15 PM (jucos)

152 BTW, for those of you arguing if Alien was sci-fi or not...

There's a useful distinction. There are some "horror" movies that are not "horror" in effect. Real horror is about, well, horror. Creepy stuff. A weird feeling. A confrontation with the ugly and taboo.

Some movies have the trappings of horror without actually being horror films. Ghostbusters, obviously. But a lot of movies really aren't "horror" in any real way, except for the trappings. Monsters, moors. That stuff.

I don't think Cabin in the Woods is *really* a horror film. I think it would better be termed a speculative-fantasy-action-comedy with horror *theming.*

Which is my point about Alien. It's not sci-fi in the same way Cabin in the Woods isn't really horror. As the latter is horror-themed, Alien is sci-fi themed.

There is a difference between what shape a thing takes, in terms of trappings and theming, and what it really is at heart.

So for people who insist that sci-fi *must* be about something sci-fi, man's adaptation to technology and what not, stuff like Alien is "sci-fi themed" if really not about an actual science fiction *idea.*

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 03:15 PM (LCRYB)

153 "Ace, with love and respect, you know how you avoid this sentence?

Find
an editor and work with him one hour a week. Pick a piece from the week
prior, get his notes, and put up a journal / checklist next to your
comp."

==========

There's no need to avoid that sentence!

Use all the words, Ace! Most of us love it, and those who don't can get stuffed!

Posted by: Kensington at November 15, 2012 03:16 PM (znT2j)

154 I was disappointed in the movie, it so many ways to go "smart" but it chose "dumb" every single time. The geologist was just one aspect that didn't work. So was the lead scientists who said, "The hell with it, I'm taking my helmet off." Even the other characters thought it was dumb, but then they all immediately did the same thing.

And when there are no live Engineers to be found, the lead guy seems to think the entire trip--and his entire life, I guess--was a huge waste, so he gets drunk.


Posted by: BeckoningChasm at November 15, 2012 03:17 PM (DuH+r)

155 the plausibility of Commercial Phase character types in an Institutional Phase mission


While this is great analysis, I shall mock this phrase some time in the future.

Posted by: fluffy at November 15, 2012 03:17 PM (z9HTb)

156 Ace I love your review, and Ace you can't count.

Heh...we need to laugh while we work.


Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:17 PM (LRFds)

157 By then if we haven't crashed yet tickets will be $50 each and popcorn and a coke will be $100.
Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 03:14 PM (YdQQY)
-----------------------------------------------------
So what you're saying is that the prices are going to hold steady?

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 03:17 PM (jucos)

158 I will gladly make you a sammich at any time. seriously. Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 03:02 PM (ou/rY)

All it takes to get a sammich is endless scrolling?

So THIS is what I've been doing wrong lo' these many years.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 15, 2012 03:17 PM (sbV1u)

159 I'll stand by the Inception thing.

Nolan likes to screw with time and reality in his movies to leave the audience guessing. Was the whole thing a dream? Was Leo dreaming at the end? Much like waking from a dream itself, the audience is left to separate what is real and what is not.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 03:17 PM (t06LC)

160 Too bad. They are not going to go mid-evil on their asses. Might as well not even go in.
Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 03:15 PM (jucos)

Their ROE's are not as FKD up as our ROE's. I bet they get ammo.

Posted by: Oldsailors Poet, Wonders what Dagny thinks at November 15, 2012 03:17 PM (3Y7RV)

161 I saw Promotheus on a flight a few weeks ago. It was a timekiller, nothing that I actually went out to see. That said, the story fairly cried out for a co-ed shower scene like in Starship Troopers.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 15, 2012 03:17 PM (QKKT0)

162
And the same thing holds true for all the characters, especially the captain.

As Ace points out, the characters were quirky. But why??

In adventure-drama movies like Prometheus they only add quirky if they're also gonna later reveal some redeeming quality to the character to show the audience that s/he 'earned his keep' or pulled her weight.

So the captain has this Christmas tree. And the director makes damn sure you know about his friggin Christmas tree. And the audience wonders where this is going.

It's going...nowhere. The tree is merely background in the movie.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 15, 2012 03:17 PM (v8xyR)

163 Fuck you; I'm eating my waffles.

Posted by: captain barrackus O at November 15, 2012 03:18 PM (nkiQM)

164 It is a major crime that Stephen Stills is going to get a shitload of royalty money from this movie.
I'm sure he is Scott's neighbor or drug dealer or something.

Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 03:18 PM (+paCV)

165 Wait -- how is Prometheus just Cthulhu? (I read a few Cthulhu stories in high school and that was it, so I'm no expert)

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 03:18 PM (ZPrif)

166
2,329 words.

Posted by: Ed Anger at November 15, 2012 03:18 PM (tOkJB)

167 Funny, I was so bugged by the other plot holes that I never gave much thought to Johnny Rotten Ph.D. But I'm glad Ace did.

For any morons who have the nagging feeling that some of the egregious plot holes might actually be by design rather than incompetence, cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html makes for an interesting and reaffirming read. It's also the first Google hit for "livejournal prometheus sacrifice abdomen".

Posted by: The Chap with the App at November 15, 2012 03:18 PM (fscec)

168 >>>Ace, with love and respect, you know how you avoid this sentence?

>>>Find an editor and work with him one hour a week. Pick a piece from the week prior, get his notes, and put up a journal / checklist next to your comp.

With love and respect, you do understand I'm expected to post hourly, correct?

Do you understand that? Do you understand the "hourly" part?

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (LCRYB)

169 @159

Memento was genius, Inception was masturbation!


Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (RrD4h)

170 I will say that I didn't realize that Elizabeth Shaw was going to be the protagonist until Charlie Holloway got dead. For some reason I wasn't expecting them to stick with the Fem Hero motif.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (QupBk)

171 The chick scientist rebuffs the security guard who wanted to accompany them. "This is a scientific mission. No weapons." On a planet they know nothing about. This was the first clue that the movie might be silly.

Posted by: Dickie Dukakis at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (C2jTf)

172 So what you're saying is that the prices are going to hold steady?

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 03:17 PM (jucos)

I haven't been to the theater in a long time but I hope that is snark.

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (YdQQY)

173 I'm in the boat with Ace on this one. I hated this GD movie, and I continue to hate it the more I think about it.

If you want to see what might've been, read the "Alien: Engineers" script in the sidebar. Ben K. found it a couple of days ago and I just bumped the entry back up to the top.

The script has all the major plot points of Prometheus, but it drops the stupid tropes and fills in all the plot holes.

Posted by: Andy at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (5Rurq)

174 Also, I was disappointed that the visual style Scott brought to Alien and Blade Runner has apparently vanished. This movie could have been made by anyone.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (DuH+r)

175 Prometheus

Ridley Scott's personal dirty sanchez to the alien fans who expected him to make as good a film as Alien.

Proof that as you get older and fatter you get a bit lazier and less visonary.


Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (ovpNn)

176 This is like Peter Wells' review of Guy Fieri's new restaurant.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (9043P)

177 You also have a decadent phase, in addition to the commercial and institutional phases. Ref. Padme

Posted by: Jean at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (+oKKW)

178 Proemetheus like inception was an incromprehensible pile of twaddle.

Such a waste!

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 03:07 PM (RrD4h)


Inception was a great movie. Could have been much better, but they did a fine job, nonetheless, and kept the storyline relatively clean and consistent.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 03:20 PM (X3lox)

179 Ace, your whole Institutional/Commercial thing is spot on and I agree with it. But I disagree with you about Star Trek being Institutional Phase.

The show focused on the Enterprise and the people on board, so it was an Institutional setting and backstory, but supposedly people were traveling all over the place for centuries before the time of Kirk and friends. As others have noted, Harry Mudd was not being shuttled about on Institutional ships; he had some sort of battered old cheap ship of his own.

Even the prequel show Enterprise, which should have been Institutional and mostly was, had a backstory that non-warp-drive space travel was Commercial Phase. One of the guys on the crew came from a space habitat.

For some reason, this discussion reminded me of the novel The Rolling Stones by Heinlein. In this novel, the Stone family buys an old spaceship that had been designed as a hybrid passenger/cargo ship, which then proved to be unprofitable (not enough cargo capacity to really make money on cargo hauling, not fast or luxurious enough to really make money on passenger trade). The spaceship turns out to be ideal for a large family to go walkabout in the Solar System, of course. Anyway this assumed that they were well into the Commercial Phase, multiple generations of ship designs having been tried, and a used ship lot being no more remarkable than a used car lot is in our society now.

Posted by: mr_jack at November 15, 2012 03:20 PM (TMG3G)

180 With love and respect, you do understand I'm expected to post hourly, correct?



Do you understand that? Do you understand the "hourly" part?

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (LCRYB)


That's inhuman. You need a lawyer, not an editor.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 15, 2012 03:20 PM (QKKT0)

181 I took my snot-nosed (but lovable) 18-year-old to the damned thing. We went out for a great dinner with my sister and her husband; then we went to a great IMAX theater where the technology was fantastic. We were all thoroughly entertained in spite of the many flaws in the movie.

There comes a time when you just have to say, " yeah, maybe it sucked, but it was a fun two hours."

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 15, 2012 03:20 PM (GsoHv)

182 On top of that that Namoo PooFace is a terrible actress but only because english is not her native language and the cadence for her dialogue was all wrong.


Thank god Scott didnt cast Kristen Stewart.

Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at November 15, 2012 03:20 PM (ovpNn)

183 >>>Wait -- how is Prometheus just Cthulhu? (I read a few Cthulhu stories in high school and that was it, so I'm no expert)

callous and hateful Gods from Another Star which seek to destroy humans and Spawn other monsters via biologically fecund sludge and perverted technology akin to magic? And gigantic tentacle beasts? And a Dark Secret about the True History of the Universe in which man is not central, but merely a sort of cattle?

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 03:21 PM (LCRYB)

184
But I have to give a lot of credit for the spaceship. It is one beautiful spacecraft from the outside. And I can't say I've ever seen anything closely similar before.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 15, 2012 03:21 PM (v8xyR)

185 Here is where I pretty much agree totally with Ace. So many extraneous things in this movie making it stupider than it should have been.

I didn't hate it. I thought it was pretty entertaining in parts, but overall wasn't very good.

Posted by: Olaf at November 15, 2012 03:21 PM (t1NLo)

186 Skyfall review was awesome. That one guy in it looks like Gutfeld, or is it Blofeld?

(no spoiler, see)

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at November 15, 2012 03:22 PM (UU0OF)

187 I hated this POS too. But what is still bothering me is simply this, why were the giants (you know the creators of human kind) so pissed off? Why were they such angry fuckers?Posted by: Sgt. Fury at November 15, 2012 03:10 PM (wmR6i)**************************************************Basically, they looked at us humans as being retarded, mutated, defective versions of themselves.They are the template, the correct version of humanity. We are the defective, mutated version.Imagine a man and a woman have a kid. But the woman ate mercury tainted fished while pregnant. So the kid looked like Kuato, the mutated mutant from Total Recall. That's kinda how we appear to the Engineers/giants.They see us as abominations.

Posted by: EFG at November 15, 2012 03:22 PM (C+qQ0)

188 Like, what was that big muscly guy's beef anyway?

Posted by: Meghan McCain at November 15, 2012 03:22 PM (QKKT0)

189 I finally got my freakin Promethues review dambit!

Too short.

Posted by: eleven at November 15, 2012 03:22 PM (KXm42)

190 Re: Commercial vs. Institution.

The entire thesis above rests on the idea that the societal institutions still have the first idea/clue of what "appropriate for the job" is. Leaving aside the people's glorious Army/Navy we might have in a generation or so...Historically experience shows that many militaries have had guys in charge or selected for the entirely wrong reason. Or for reasons other than what you propose.

For example...the British never again wanted a "New Model Army", so the answer was...officers had to buy their commissions, especially the senior positions. Meant they had a stake in society and wouldn't go off with the Levellers again. It was the lower-level professionals and the noncoms who took care of things. Given the professional nature of the pre-Napoleonic British army, one can't quibble--but the officers were not selected for necessarily the best reasons, from a performance in the field standpoint.

As a bad example--Tsarist Russia. Bad officers selected for bad reasons.

Posted by: G. at November 15, 2012 03:22 PM (M8BEh)

191 168 Ace,

No I was unaware you were a punchclock villain....

duly noted.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:22 PM (LRFds)

192 178
Proemetheus like inception was an incromprehensible pile of twaddle.



Such a waste!



Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 03:07 PM (RrD4h)

Comparing Prometheus to Inception is like Comparing Barack Obama to Ronald Reagan.

and just to be clear i love love love Alien.


Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at November 15, 2012 03:23 PM (ovpNn)

193 >>>Alien isn't even really sci-fi. It's a sci-fi fascade over a typical haunted house horror movie.

No it is true scifi. The setting makes the plot believable and even somewhat realistic. It *could* happen that way, or in a very similar way in a very believable future. So no. Not just a sci-fi wrapper. The Sci-Fi makes the story and not just that way.

I find a couple of things about Alien put it into SCIFI. Most notably the setting HAD to be space for the movie to work. Horror has three levels (at least how I think about it) Dread, Sinister and Horror. The dread phase is when the certainty of bad things is still reasonably questionable. It is the bad feeling phase where maybe some bad things happen but a reasonable explanation could exist for them. Then comes the Sinister phase, where the pretext that everything might be OK has to be dropped, something very bad is afoot, and no other reasonable explanation exists. Then the horror phase, where the bad thing has manifested and is after you (the main characters) right now. Horror uses those phases in different ways. What's important to remember how they relate to alien is, once the horror phase begins in earnest, the characters are going to want to escape or your plot falls apart for lack of realism.

This is why Alien must be in space. Because the horror phase begins so early (only about a third of the way through the movie) and in a conventional setting it would be a non stop fight of the writers to keep the characters trapped. But hey Space, alone in the frontier, they ARE trapped from second 1. The only lifeboat is limited and an extremely long shot at survival. The remake bastard cousin scifi horror Leviathan uses the same exact devices to the exact same effect but again has to resort to a futuristic setting of underwater mining operation in order to make the environment that brought the characters together and ultimately keeps them trapped. Leviathan suffers (for a lot of reasons) but plot wise because the initial premise of discovering some genetic re-engineering drug the Soviets made then sank in the ocean is far less believable than encountering some strange species while going into uncharted space.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 15, 2012 03:24 PM (0q2P7)

194 Memento was genius, Inception was masturbation!

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (RrD4h)


I agree that Memento was genius. Inception was great fun and consistent enough to be very interesting and thought provoking. I used to be into the lucid dream thing myself, many, many years ago, so a lot of it resonated with me in that way.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 03:24 PM (X3lox)

195 Wait, today, we're reviewing old movies everyone has already seen? Awesome.

Posted by: Wait at November 15, 2012 03:24 PM (MPIX5)

196 >>>Wait -- how is Prometheus just Cthulhu? (I read a few Cthulhu stories in high school and that was it, so I'm no expert)

callous and hateful Gods from Another Star which seek to destroy humans and Spawn other monsters via biologically fecund sludge and perverted technology akin to magic? And gigantic tentacle beasts? And a Dark Secret about the True History of the Universe in which man is not central, but merely a sort of cattle?

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 03:21 PM (LCRYB)
------------------------------------------------------------
Alright. Trying to wrap my head around this. Prometheus is just Cthulhu, who is in fact OBAMA!?!

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 03:24 PM (jucos)

197 Ok, guess I never grocked the full Cthulhu mythos. Was all that actually spelled out in the books? I mainly walked away with creepy feelings about Dark, Unknowable Things that make you get the crazies.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 03:24 PM (ZPrif)

198 I'd prefer the USG Ishamura... for a vacation you'll never forget.

Posted by: Isaac Clark at November 15, 2012 03:24 PM (K24Ca)

199 187 EFG,

pretty much although I would have said the kid would look a lot like Bawney Fwank...

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:25 PM (LRFds)

200 Just wait, next year we'll have the movie version of Ender's Game! I can't wait to see how they fuck that movie up.

My short review of the book:

The dialogue is fucking hideous. The way the characters speak to each other is awful. No one talks like that, even if it is the future and slang is different. Also, I had to keep telling myself that these were small children talking and acting this way. It's completely fucking unrealistic. Children, even super-geniuses, do not have the emotional maturity to behave in the manner that Card writes. They are still kids in the end, no matter how fucking smart they are.

The basic story of the child genius being manipulated to fight the buggers is gold. I had heard about this book and the plot before I read it, so I self-spoiled it but I still like that portion of the book. It is my sincere hope that the movie uses older children for the sake of plausibility. I don't know if I could sit through a movie with 6 year old children running around pretending to play soldier.

The other parts of the book with Peter and Val are likewise awful. I did care for either character. Truthfully, they really had no impact on the main part of the story, only the very end where the war is over and Ender's status is in flux. But that, that's the other stories.

The ending with Ender's choice. Hahaha...oh woes is me for committing genocide! I think I'll hang onto this egg sac and let the creatures who almost wiped us out, respawn. I feel so sorry for them!!! awwwww....

My hope for the movie:

-use teenagers like The Hunger Games, not toddlers

-stick to the main arc about the human-bugger war

-don't change a fucking thing about Ender and the Battleschool's true purpose, especially what Mazer Rackham is there for

-do not make any sequels because they all sound like they suck

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 03:25 PM (GQ8sn)

201 callous and hateful Gods from Another Star which seek to destroy humans and Spawn other monsters via biologically fecund sludge and perverted technology akin to magic? And gigantic tentacle beasts? And a Dark Secret about the True History of the Universe in which man is not central, but merely a sort of cattle?
Posted by: ace


Sounds like Progressives

Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 03:25 PM (+paCV)

202
So assuming people in the federal govt were characters in this movie, who is who? I assume Pelosi is Cthulhu.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 03:25 PM (3BbLJ)

203 and just to be clear i love love love Alien.




Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at November 15, 2012 03:23 PM (ovpNn)

Mmmmm, Alien. Loved it. The other 3, not so much. But a sweaty, under duress Sigourney Weaver, well, I was young then...

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 03:25 PM (BoE3Z)

204 TL;DR

Posted by: Keep Honkin I'm Reloading at November 15, 2012 03:25 PM (dGVkZ)

205 Prometheus was a stupid hack job that did no justice to the myth. Like any other corporation, name a vehicle after a myth, and that suffices claiming the title as identity. No. Punks who pay money to see flicks for their "education" did not see anything related to the Prometheus myth. As if the plot of this movie was somehow better, more worthy than projecting an ancient Myth on screen. pfft

The movie was a complete, predictable bore, proving again that whatever creative elements that Hollywood movie makers once sought in their youth is long overspent. The evil robot that has no feelings yet is so perverted as to enjoy destroying humans is nothing new since 2001 Space Odyssey.

The geologists on the mission were equivalent to over aged high school drop outs who found a job to act as if geologists though without a clue as to what geology is. In the cave and anywhere outside the ship, they didn't even take any rock samples back for testing in the ship. They just threw a tissy fit, and in the ship, stood around with nothing to do. Great role play as highly selected professionals in their field /not/.

The ONLY interest once mentioned was completely ignored -- no communication and no meaning beyong "kill them all" between the "creator" and creations.

Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 03:25 PM (BAnPT)

206 @185

Prometheus! Something left and right can agree on!
@169
I agree with you on Momento, but notice Nolan uses the same effect in both. In Momento, the movie is shot to reflect how the charachter sees the world and puts the audience in his position. Inception is the same as the audience is entering the uncertainty of dreaming. We are left to discern what happened.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 03:25 PM (t06LC)

207 190 G,

"descendant proudly of a New Model soldier"

England and America hating on Republicans since Cromwell.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:26 PM (LRFds)

208 I don't think we'll ever see manned space travel; we peaked at reaching the moon, that's as far as mankind gets. All the investment that could have gone into space will now be sucked into Obamaphones and contraceptive.

And when taxes are increased to pay for Obamaphones and contraceptives, there won't be anything left in the private sector to build spaceships either.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at November 15, 2012 03:26 PM (QXlbZ)

209 "Memento was genius, Inception was masturbation!"

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (RrD4h)


So....you liked them both?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 15, 2012 03:26 PM (GsoHv)

210 They hired the whole crew of Prometheus from craigslist 30 minutes before launch with no background check.

Posted by: Ernst Blofeld at November 15, 2012 03:26 PM (XZWie)

211 @192

The only comparison I make is I had the same feelings watching them.
which were,

What the fuck is this shit?

What?

Did I just miss something?

Did that happen?

WTF!!!!???

ETC..

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 03:26 PM (RrD4h)

212 198 I'd prefer the USG Ishamura... for a vacation you'll never forget.
Posted by: Isaac Clark at November 15, 2012 03:24 PM (K24Ca)

Ooohh oooohh pick meeeeeeeeeeee!!!!

Posted by: The Sprawl at November 15, 2012 03:27 PM (UZQM8)

213 All it takes to get a sammich is endless scrolling?

So THIS is what I've been doing wrong lo' these many years.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 15, 2012 03:17 PM (sbV1u)

no no, men never understand, it's actually the content that counts. I wouldn't just scroll for ANY old 1700 word movie review.

Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 03:27 PM (ou/rY)

214 201 Daybrother,

Can I interest you in car insurance you greedy capitalist assholes?

//Progressive Flo

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:27 PM (LRFds)

215
So which is worse, this or avatar? I couldn't last
more than 45 minutes of that piece of crap with those stupid blue
people. I considered suicide watching that thing. This is from someone
who mildly enjoyed Sharktopus vs Crocasaurous.


Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 03:03 PM (3BbLJ)








Avatar is worse, by far. For all the Cameron ball-washing that he got for the visuals, the damned movie looks like a cartoon. Even worse than Lucas' prequels.

Also, the Smurfs are supposed to be living out in the woods like Injuns, but they're all squeaky clean. Even though I can't remember seeing a shower stall or a water faucet in the big-assed tree they all live in. Anyone who's spent any time out in the woods camping or hunting knows that one of the great attractions is that you're filthy and smelly withing 12 hours, and it takes about a week to finally scrub off all the funk.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 15, 2012 03:27 PM (TIIx5)

216 @209

I like Memento.

I like masturbation.

Inception, not so much.

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 03:28 PM (RrD4h)

217 Memento was genius, Inception was masturbation!"

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (RrD4h)


So....you liked them both?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 15, 2012 03:26 PM (GsoHv)

dude, same movie, different background.

Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 03:28 PM (ou/rY)

218 Did you like Charlize Theron's parts?

You mean the part where she delivers a passably decent acting performance?

Oh wait- that part wasn't in the movie. Never mind.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 15, 2012 03:29 PM (SY2Kh)

219 Just wait Ace, dude said he wanted to do another Blade Runner movie.

Posted by: we are so screwed at November 15, 2012 03:29 PM (HEa5q)

220 re: '"Why did I get into Exoplanetary Geology? For the money, of course. You can really make a killing in Exoplanetary Geology"'

I ain't watchin' no 'Prometheus,' because I know it's garbage and I want to pretend Ridley Scott hasn't gone senile, but I'll kind of make an excuse for that guy's existence.

Instead of a Commercial Phase, which I think it's impossible to reach (how do you get there? really?), Phase Two (a.k.a. the End Phase, I'd predict) would be a Degenerate Institutional Phase wherein Institutions are sort of derelict hulks occupied/overtaken by quasi-pirates who maintain the Instutitional *form* for purposes of personal enrichment/lording it over the serfs.

Like now on earth, for example. If you're in it for the money/lording, attaching yourself to an Institution is the most reliable way to get what you want, isn't it? Our non-fictional academics are *borderline* idle rich. And they obsessively sell themselves as monastically pure and/or radical fight-the-power rebels who *totally* aren't in it for the Man's money (that gives them lives better than pretty much everybody who isn't on TV), right?

So a ridiculous teenage-rebellion jackoff cum mercenary geologist *might* belong in the "accidentally on to something" column, not the "makes no fucking sense" one.

I'm sure he doesn't in this case. It's a stupid movie with stupid things in it. But someone *rather* like him certainly belongs in nearish-future sci-fi, if that sci-fi is trying to be plausible.

Posted by: oblig. at November 15, 2012 03:29 PM (cePv8)

221 The show focused on the Enterprise and the people on board, so it was an Institutional setting and backstory, but supposedly people were traveling all over the place for centuries before the time of Kirk and friends.

With TOS it's a bit like trying to judge if the mid-80s were Institutional for air travel based solely on Top Gun; they by design only show you government planes so you don't know. As I posted long ago in this thread I think you can make the case that TOS is transitional, Enterprise is Institutional, and TNG/DS9 are Commercial.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 03:29 PM (B/VB5)

222 So which is worse, this or avatar? I couldn't last
more than 45 minutes of that piece of crap with those stupid blue
people. I considered suicide watching that thing. This is from someone who mildly enjoyed Sharktopus vs Crocasaurous.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 03:03 PM (3BbLJ)


NOTHING is worse than Avatar.

Ishtar >>> Avatar.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 03:29 PM (X3lox)

223 I Know Who FOGHAT is. SPACE TRUCKIN' C'MON!!! and follow HEPCAT.

Posted by: Ron Reagan the Elder at November 15, 2012 03:29 PM (f95vc)

224 >>>Historically experience shows that many militaries have had guys in
charge or selected for the entirely wrong reason. Or for reasons other
than what you propose.

Historically experience shows that throughout history militaries have had far more motivated, disciplined, and loyal people than the population as a whole. Yes you have bad times and can have spotty military makeups, and not every officer or soldier is perfect. But if you are looking for your best, it's usually a good place to start. So you take your officers and soldiers with the best performance relative to the task at hand then screen them for your big important mission. Like say, the space program did.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 15, 2012 03:29 PM (0q2P7)

225 208 GoY,

you know what you're right....

it enrages my son....I think worse still is the fact that the nations will destroy any corp that were to get the power to harvest the asteroids.

If I had one wish I'd wish for the ability to get freedom loving folk away from these efette College theorists and into the heavens.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:30 PM (LRFds)

226 Except that the entire flight was financed by the captain / her dead(undead) father. Any kind of massive scale undertaking like this one, funded and motivated by a singular person's desire / gut feel / lifelong pursuit is, by definition, not going to follow all the alleged rules of "institutional phase".

In fact, considering the model you present - Star Trek - the very, VERY early institutional phase may have trouble attracting the sort of straight laced types because of the massive risk in volved. The only people signing up for that are the ones that don't mind that they'll probably end up dead anyhow.

Posted by: deadrody at November 15, 2012 03:30 PM (aT8Zk)

227 Two movies that are not sci-fi but use sci-fi devices to move the plot:

"Safety not Guaranteed" and "Another Earth".
Both are basically chic flics but pleasant.

Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 03:30 PM (+paCV)

228 dude, same movie, different background.

Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 03:28 PM (ou/rY)


Not at all.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 03:30 PM (X3lox)

229 218
Did you like Charlize Theron's parts?

You mean the part where she delivers a passably decent acting performance?

Oh wait- that part wasn't in the movie. Never mind.


Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 15, 2012 03:29 PM (SY2Kh)

A main problem with this flick is identified. There are no Theron parts (on display).

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 03:30 PM (BoE3Z)

230 >>>Except that the entire flight was financed by the captain / her dead(undead) father.

Um, you mean the head of the Wyland Corporation of whatever it's called?

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 03:30 PM (LCRYB)

231 This is like Peter Wells' review of Guy Fieri's new restaurant.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (9043P)

agreed! If you mean that they are both awesomely awesome.

Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 03:31 PM (ou/rY)

232 Prometheus is every bit as bad as Avatar.

Neither are worth watching.

Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 03:31 PM (BAnPT)

233 Avatar was a well-made movie. I hated it since it was leftist propaganda, but it was well-made.

The Star Wars prequels made tons of money but were poorly crafted movies. Avatar very effectively played on the emotions of the audience.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 03:31 PM (ZPrif)

234 @222

Any film with Charles Grodin is a good film.


Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 03:32 PM (RrD4h)

235 "Safety not Guaranteed" and "Another Earth".
Both are basically chic flics but pleasant.

Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 03:30 PM (+paCV)


"Another Earth" was 10 helpings of Retard.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 03:32 PM (X3lox)

236 Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 15, 2012 03:27 PM (TIIx5)

They lick each other clean.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo at November 15, 2012 03:32 PM (GsoHv)

237
re: the old man/father/maniac

He looked like a 30 yr old actor made up to look one-hundred and thirty.

Awful make up job. Why didn't they just use an old actor?

Posted by: soothsayer at November 15, 2012 03:32 PM (v8xyR)

238 Hopefully the LiB caucus will stand aside while we douse this movie with gasoline.

Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at November 15, 2012 03:32 PM (SDkq3)

239 Not at all.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 03:30 PM (X3lox)

basically.

Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 03:32 PM (ou/rY)

240 @225
My spacelaw prof has a company based out of the Isle of Man that should be launching soon. He went to Ukraine and bought a sister to Mir. I believe there are currently around 7 or 8 private space companies in Texas alone.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 03:32 PM (t06LC)

241 232 Panzer,

well both are likely worth watching with plinkett.....

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:32 PM (LRFds)

242 But, But - it was shot with the RED EPIC in 3D man!!!

Once I saw the crew - I had the same feeling.....
An interesting premise that was blown.....

Posted by: izoneguy at November 15, 2012 03:33 PM (oKH8p)

243 I laughed at loud several times during Prometheus. It was a piece of shit. The only people I know that like it are either 1) young morons that don't know any better or 2) fuckheads that think the movie is "smart" and want to appear smart by saying they liked it.

Fucking horrorshow of a film. Cinematic theft.

Posted by: Witchfinder at November 15, 2012 03:33 PM (pLTLS)

244
Um, you mean the head of the Wyland Corporation of whatever it's called?


Yes. He blew a trillion dollars, or what TFG spent in one calendar year on that ship....

...without any weapons!!!

In that universe, the Weyland Corporation makes a signficant portion of its money from military weapons and equipment. For a genius business approaching that of a James Bond villain, you'd think he at least have some fucking guns on the ship. No telling what's out there.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 03:33 PM (GQ8sn)

245 214 201 Daybrother,
Can I interest you in car insurance you greedy capitalist assholes?
//Progressive Flo
Posted by: sven10077

-----------------------------------------------------------------

I think that was the subplot of Avatar.

Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 03:33 PM (+paCV)

246
208I don't think we'll ever see manned space travel; we peaked at reaching the moon, that's as far as mankind gets.

China and Russia are in a space-race right now...to get to the Moon.

Mankind is continuing to work on manned space travel.
Our own country is now assuming the position of 'spectator'.

And you're right...Entitlements ate our space program.

Posted by: wheatie at November 15, 2012 03:33 PM (ICEh3)

247 Prometheus Now

Posted by: Col Kurtz at November 15, 2012 03:33 PM (EZl54)

248 @222

Any film with Charles Grodin is a good film.


Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 03:32 PM (RrD4h)
------------------------------------------------------
Beethoven? Bad film...... really bad.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 03:33 PM (jucos)

249 Avatar was a well-made movie. I hated it since it was leftist propaganda, but it was well-made.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 03:31 PM (ZPrif)


No, it wasn't. It was shit. Total shit. Even in the area of special effects it was shit. The rest was far, far worse.

Avatar was offensive in how shitty it was.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 03:33 PM (X3lox)

250
Did you like Charlize Theron's parts?
**
You mean the part where she delivers a passably decent acting performance?

Oh wait- that part wasn't in the movie. Never mind.
++

"Father!"

pfft. Since Star Wars evil father role, this was so lame.

Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 03:33 PM (BAnPT)

251 240 Jolly Roger,

and I know baby steps are needed....

I just think the governments will keep us hamstrung and slaving....

There's a whole damned galaxy out there and we are gifting what were once middle class lifestyles to folk.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:34 PM (LRFds)

252 In Elon Musk's wet dream, Snograsses Circuit series, the institutional phase is trying assert control over the commercial. Good fun.

Posted by: Jean at November 15, 2012 03:34 PM (UIE9v)

253 This is tangentially related to my biggest movie pet peeve, the Cult of Incompetence. You know, where the bumbling incompetent somehow outdoes the calm professionals. This is crazy common in hollywood, partly because hollywood is vestigially aware of how unsurvivable they are outside their narrow specialty, and how many writers and entertainers envy physically competent people. Both this and the wacky personalities and terrible judgement thing are also there to hide gross improbabilities in the plot that require protagonists to be idiots to allow the plot to progress. I`d love to see a series of those five minute summary videos of big movies where a sensible person sees the problem and resolves it, instead of fumbling it into a disaster.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith`s eReader at November 15, 2012 03:34 PM (bxiXv)

254 246 Wheatie,

Fucking Mondale is the one.....

bastard.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:34 PM (LRFds)

255 Avatar was a well-made movie. I hated it since it was leftist propaganda, but it was well-made.



The Star Wars prequels made tons of money but were poorly crafted
movies. Avatar very effectively played on the emotions of the audience.


I thought it was a decent though shallow and cliched movie, if only for the visuals.

However, I did like it better when it was called "Dances With Wolves".

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 15, 2012 03:34 PM (SY2Kh)

256 OT rant? You bet your nutbugging lifefuck.

-------------

After the incompetent, disastrous, knuckleheaded government response to Sandy, with Staten Island a swamp and hi-rises still without power, smelling of shit, our Shithead-in-Chief shows up on the scene and says this:

http://bit.ly/RFxeAn

"There’s still going to be, believe it or not, some complaints over the next several months. Not everybody’s going to be satisfied. I have to tell you, the insurance companies and some of the private sectors involved in this, we need you to show some heart and some spirit in helping people rebuild as well."

YES I KNOW I’M SHOUTING. DO YOU HEAR IT? DO YOU HEAR THE FUCKING REINCARNATION OF BUGFUCKING DIOCLETIAN NUTFUCK YOU IN YOUR FUCKBUGGERED EARFUCKINGDRUMS?

THERE IS NO MORE LAW. THERE IS ONLY POWER.

After Obama and Bloomberg and FEMA tripped over their collective dicks so many times it looked like a chorus line stricken with St. Vitus Dance, the emperor says the private sector doesn’t have heart. Hey, Stephen Fucking Hawking, you know what private insurance companies have? FUCKING CONTRACTS. They fucking have to pay out on their policies. But no, let’s eliminate the notion of contracts, let us subordinate it to the emperor and the mob’s definition of “heart” and “spirit.” Sort of like GM senior bondholders. You think society is kept stable by the rule of law and contracts between citizens? Think again, peasant. Your contract ain’t worth shit once the gimlet eye of mob rule and tyranny bores into your business.

This is the man who, four years ago, told us taxes have to go up on capital gains even if it actually reduces tax receipts, because FAIRNESS ELEVENTY. And the majority of voters chose this madness twice.

So, short version: The republic is dead.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows we are now Airstrip One at November 15, 2012 03:35 PM (Lxw+T)

257 This is why Alien must be in space. Because the horror phase begins so early (only about a third of the way through the movie) and in a conventional setting it would be a non stop fight of the writers to keep the characters trapped.

That's not true though. Horror movies have been quite prolific at generating plot-convenient ways to isolate the victims; a cabin in the woods, an underground facility with locked exits, you name it. This is why the transporter had to constantly break down on Trek to create any dramatic tension. Outer space is simply another plot-convenient isolation device.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 03:35 PM (B/VB5)

258 The "This Automatic Space Fixer-Upper is for Men" line from the operating robot cinched it for me.

Dumb. Movie.

I, continually, could not figure out whether the lead actress was teh hawt.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at November 15, 2012 03:35 PM (RuUvx)

259 It was alright, could have been better. I guess I just had really high hopes for it to be a deep, meaty prequel to the Alien series. It had corny antagonists, general bumbling, and unconvincing, implausible motivations as ace explained.

Oh well.

Posted by: fb at November 15, 2012 03:35 PM (JVEmw)

260 , but supposedly people were traveling all over the place for centuries before the time of Kirk and friends.


Centuries is a bit off. Try more like a century. First contact 2063, first deep space exploration mission Enterprise 2151, Kirk battles Nemo 2258.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 15, 2012 03:35 PM (0q2P7)

261 Posted by: G. at November 15, 2012 03:22 PM (M8BEh)

I understand what you are saying, but I think that even if we devolved back to Tsarist Russia or Napoleonic era British military institutional advancement, for specific missions - particularly big, important and expensive missions - the institution is going to pick the best people for the job. On a planet with billions, there will still be some really good officers, geologists, etc., even if they had to buy their commission so to speak. So, the point still stands.

Would you really pick a 20-something hot-head, idiot, non-conformist to be the geologist on this mission?

As an aside, this gets to one of my biggest beefs with movies. I can suspend disbelief for the silliest, craziest ideas if that's what the movie is. I have no problem enjoying Buckaroo Bonzai b/c there is no pretense at any realism.

But, when you spend time trying to build realism, then when you utterly fail to produce it, it destroys the movie. Which is what I think underlies Ace's point here. The movie is trying to provide a realistic sense of space travel and exploration to build tension, suspense and drama, but then ignores reality in the most basic things - like who would actually be included on such a mission. In my mind, a movie cannot have it both ways - you can't pretend to be creating a realistic portrayal of how people and institutions act and then turn around and have them act in completely the opposite manner for no reason.

This holds true whether it is a science fiction movie or not. If the movie is not true to its own internal universe, then it is difficult to enjoy. Sometimes story can overcome this - particularly if they are minor quibbles. But, the worse the movie, the more those minor quibbles are glaring.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at November 15, 2012 03:35 PM (sOx93)

262 @248

Those films may be bad, but Charles Grodin?

NEVER

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 03:36 PM (RrD4h)

263 Seriously, if you are arguing that Avatar is a poorly crafted movie then you don't know anything about movies. Or at least not about the kind of movies your fellow human beings like to watch.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 03:36 PM (ZPrif)

264 253 Mero,

That traits almost as irritating as George Lucas' love of "triumph of the stupid".....

Yeah you have killer machines able to fight trained US Army Ranger as baseline skill level clones to standstills and who powns the droids?

Jar jar binks....

gun, bullet, head

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:36 PM (LRFds)

265 The ending would have been better, and helped my impression of the movie overall, if the lone human survivor decided to go the alien home-world not to find out why they wanted us dead but to unleash the biological weapon they intended for us on them. That's what I thought her intent was at 1st, and I liked it, but then she blabbed some stupid shit about wanting to know why they wanted us dead. Her boyfriend and the rest of the crew are dead, the ship is destroyed, she had an alien inside her and another that tried to kill her and she wants to know why? I think, at that point, retribution should have been the order of the day.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 15, 2012 03:36 PM (b+jI9)

266 Hey guys don't forget about me....

Posted by: DOW @ -75 at November 15, 2012 03:37 PM (UZQM8)

267 >>>
Awful make up job. Why didn't they just use an old actor?

I assume this is because they filmed shots of him as a young man at some point which were then deleted.

Generally the more deletions from a shot film, the worse it is. It means two things: They never had the script together, really, and did not have a firm idea of what was important (or else they wouldn't have spent a million dollars to shoot a scene they later realized hurt the flow of the movie and was unnecessary, and so cut it out), and... generally when a movie is bad the studio insists they cut, cut, cut, so that there is less of it to hate, so that it's punchier (or as punchy as possible), and so they can get in more screening times so more people can see it before the word gets out.

I don't think the latter happened here, exactly, but that's the fate of many bad films. "Best fifty-six minutes you'll ever spend in a theater," as Maybe Funke bragged about her awful movie Dangerous Cousins.

Good movies get big things cut out of them too, of course. Aliens had 10 minutes with Newt and her family, pre-tragedy, until he realized you don't have to show Newt's family to convince the audience that she did in fact previously have a family.

Still... scripts are relatively cheap and shooting is very expensive. If a film has a bunch of things they shot, but then deleted, they didn't really have a good handle on the material in the writing phase.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 03:37 PM (LCRYB)

268 I, continually, could not figure out whether the lead actress was teh hawt.

You can watch "The Girl With The Dragon Tatto" original Swedish version and see for yourself. She gets completely nekkid in that one, although for one time she gets the shit raped out of her.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 03:37 PM (GQ8sn)

269 Space travel, like sea travel, will take time to develop.
The phrase "man worth his salt" came into being because in the early time of sail, crews were paid in spices they brought back. Up there in asteroids are valuable ores that right now, (and probably not in my lifetime) are not commercial to develop, but may be someday.

I think our political fortunes are transitory. Maybe we need the Chinese to push us along. When we lost the Soviets, we lost our focus. We became consumed by the peace dividend. Just because we choose butter now does not mean we will do so in the future.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 03:38 PM (t06LC)

270 "Another Earth" was 10 helpings of Retard.
Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair

-----------------------------------------------------------------

It was clearly a student film that got reshot with a tiny budget so I gave it an A for effort despite the retardness that was evident. I enjoyed it and I've seen worse feature films. I started drinking from my friend's flask during "The amazing spiderman".

Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 03:38 PM (+paCV)

271 Well just incase no one has said this to you yet Ace, but what in the HELL are you doing watching movies in the first place. STOP DOING THAT RIGHT NOW!
Movies are a way for the enemy of our nation ie the left to raise money in order to follow their political agenda, so please for the love of God stop giving them money.

Posted by: southdakotaboy at November 15, 2012 03:38 PM (JaJ3u)

272 "if you are arguing that Avatar is a poorly crafted movie then you don't know anything about movies."

The best indigenous scout fighters in the universe are conned into doing a frontal assault.

Dumber than a sack of hammers.

Posted by: Fuck the MSM at November 15, 2012 03:38 PM (vJfir)

273 -stick to the main arc about the human-bugger war
Reporting for duty, sir!

Posted by: andi sullivan at November 15, 2012 03:38 PM (nkiQM)

274 @271 Serious or joke?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 03:39 PM (ZPrif)

275
The chick scientist rebuffs the security guard who
wanted to accompany them. "This is a scientific mission. No weapons." On
a planet they know nothing about. This was the first clue that the
movie might be silly.


Posted by: Dickie Dukakis at November 15, 2012 03:19 PM (C2jTf)







I laughed when the guard replied "No weapons? Good luck with that." At least one person on the ship wasn't a total doofus.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 15, 2012 03:39 PM (TIIx5)

276 256 George Orwell,


Yup...come to Texas we know Santa Claus is Mom/and/or/Dad after a sweaty evening of cuddling trying to make a kid smile....not the Searchlight Stalker and friends with a creepy smile.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:39 PM (LRFds)

277 You know, where the bumbling incompetent somehow
outdoes the calm professionals. This is crazy common in hollywood,
partly because hollywood is vestigially aware of how unsurvivable they
are outside their narrow specialty, and how many writers and
entertainers envy physically competent people. Both this and the wacky
personalities and terrible judgement thing are also there to hide gross
improbabilities in the plot that require protagonists to be idiots to
allow the plot to progress. I`d love to see a series of those five
minute summary videos of big movies where a sensible person sees the
problem and resolves it, instead of fumbling it into a disaster.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith`s eReader at November 15, 2012 03:34 PM (bxiXv)
A pet peeve along these lines for me is the woman kicking every man's butt. Fine, if the woman in question in the movie has some superpower, etc. But, in real life, even the most athletic, well-trained woman would have a difficult time beating the average man in combat. The weight and strength differential is simply too great.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at November 15, 2012 03:39 PM (sOx93)

278 232
Prometheus is every bit as bad as Avatar.

Neither are worth watching.



Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 03:31 PM (BAnPT)

Ouch. Guess I'm not watching Prometheus.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 15, 2012 03:39 PM (xAtAj)

279
where you really should be pretty quiet and awaiting your next order.



You know, I think this is actually pretty well handled in Moron fave Sunshine. It's established that Cillian Murphy's character and Chris Evans' character more or less loathe each other. Chris Evans should be the Maverick Who Does His Own Thing and Looks Out For Himself. Yet at a certain key point, when the choice is to save himself or the other guy he hates, he saves the other guy he hates because his mission is to make sure that the other guy lives and he is damn well going to do it because if he doesn't really really bad shit will happen to the rest of humanity. That made sense and was consistent with the type of person who would be put into that role. Annnnd then shortly there after the plot goes to hell but my point stands.


Hell, this brings us back to the Knowing debate. One of the things I admire about the movie is that Rose Byrne's character finally is more or less you are utterly crazypants to Nic Cage and takes off with the kids to try to save them which is what someone would actually do.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 15, 2012 03:40 PM (VtjlW)

280 273
-stick to the main arc about the human-bugger war
Reporting for duty, sir!


Posted by: andi sullivan at November 15, 2012 03:38 PM (nkiQM)

The whole reason I'm down on the Ender's Game movie is Hollywood already tried it with Starship Troopers, a far superior book. They raped that book like Noomi Rapace in The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 03:40 PM (GQ8sn)

281 Cliff Notes version. Ace would hit Charlize Theron and Noomi Rapace so hard both would need scamper transplants.

Posted by: MrCaniac at November 15, 2012 03:41 PM (Ohhk6)

282 Just got here. I guess Ace's long-awaited Prometheus bomb has been released and expoloded. No shrapnel wounds that I know of.

Actually, it was a good review, Ace. There were some things about this movie that just didn't add up and you put your finger on it (or in it). You talk of the geologist just in it for the money, and I'm thinking that he was the personification of the director that was just doing it for the money, not really caring whether he told a good story or not.

I was disappointed too.

Posted by: Soona at November 15, 2012 03:41 PM (0Y8Gz)

283 Favorite part of Avatar?

The mechs have KNIVES hidden inside the arm. Instead of like, you know, another gun or something. You could simply put a blade edge ON the arm.

Ta-dah!

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 15, 2012 03:41 PM (xAtAj)

284 pet peeve along these lines for me is the woman kicking every man's butt. Fine, if the woman in question in the movie has some superpower, etc. But, in real life, even the most athletic, well-trained woman would have a difficult time beating the average man in combat. The weight and strength differential is simply too great.
Posted by: Monkeytoe at November 15, 2012 03:39 PM (sOx93)

this one drives me nuts, too. I esp. hate it in cop shows where the tiny detective chick physically intimidates the big burly criminal in the interrogation room, and suddenly he's all "I'll talk, I'll talk!".

Posted by: elizabethe at November 15, 2012 03:41 PM (ou/rY)

285 The evil robot that has no feelings yet is so perverted as to enjoy destroying humans is nothing new since 2001 Space Odyssey.
Was that a shot at me, panzernashorn? It must have been since we're the only two beings in this thread.

Posted by: HAL 9000 at November 15, 2012 03:41 PM (nkiQM)

286 256 -

What movie are you reveiwing? Sorry, I read Ace's and one long movie review constitutes my quota for the day.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 15, 2012 03:41 PM (TOk1P)

287 And why was Charlize Theron always clothed in the movie? At the rate the Earth's culture is de-evolving shouldn't she have been butt-ass naked throughout the movie?

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 15, 2012 03:41 PM (b+jI9)

288 >>>a cabin in the woods, an underground facility with locked exits, you name it

Yes but, confinement is usually only for a very short part of the movie typically at the very end. It is hard to plausibly maintain your characters both confined and scared to death for long periods otherwise you have to push the bounds of rationality OR lay off the true horror to keep your characters from reasonably clawing through the walls and escaping. Once the horror gets so bad that running naked through the woods is the "good" deal it's hard to plausibly keep your characters from doing just that. So most horror movies save that part for the very end so the confinement phase doesn't have to last an implausibly long time. Alien hits you with that early and lets you stew. There is no way out.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 15, 2012 03:42 PM (0q2P7)

289
wait, this can't be right

Guy Pearce, 45 yo, played old man Peter Weyland?

Posted by: soothsayer at November 15, 2012 03:42 PM (v8xyR)

290 I think Alien is a "horror/SF" movie, with the "horror" part first.

When Alien first came out, SF fans pretty much classified it as a horror movie and not an SF movie so much. A phrase I read a bunch of places: "it's a 'haunted house' movie set in space." It even had the classic "springloaded cat" scene! (Something jumps out AIEEEE oh it's only the cat.) You could replace the Alien with Michael Myers, and it would mostly work. (Everyone's favorite bit with the young "chest burster" alien at dinner wouldn't make much sense, I will concede.)

The actual plot is SF: the evil Company has programmed the ship's android to sacrifice the crew members if that means collecting an alien specimen that might be useful to the Company's weapons research. And the life cycle of the alien was certainly SF.

I like the old-school definition of "science fiction": it's a story where, if you take the science out, you can't tell the story anymore. By that definition, the movie Singing in the Rain is arguably a science fiction movie: it's about the disruption caused by a new technology, "talking" movies, and how it impacts a people who made their living on the older technology (for example, a pretty actress who has a screechy horrible voice).

I am a fan of a web comic called Unicorn Jelly, which meets my definition of a "hard SF" story. It has a beginning, a middle, and an end (and then a postscript after the end). At the beginning it seems like yet another lightweight manga-style comic, but by the middle Big Things are happening. The story is set in a universe with very different physical laws than our own; and the physical laws are crucially important to the plot! The motivations of the major characters, the major events in the backstory, it all ultimately depends on the different laws of physics in the UJ universe.

http://unicornjelly.com/

Posted by: mr_jack at November 15, 2012 03:42 PM (TMG3G)

291 The first teaser trailers of Prometheus showed Guy Pierce as young without the dumbass makeup.

Posted by: Chef Mojo at November 15, 2012 03:42 PM (uRbeA)

292 This is tangentially related to my biggest movie pet peeve, the Cult of Incompetence. You know, where the bumbling incompetent somehow outdoes the calm professionals.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith`s eReader at November 15, 2012 03:34 PM (bxiXv)


It's the Important Idiot Corollary of the Noble Savage Theorem.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 03:42 PM (X3lox)

293 Charlize Theron's parts?

"Are you a robot?" That come-on line was so stooooopid. Given her persona, more likely her role was sexually molested by her father. As if a frigid woman totally without a sex drive would prove herself not robotic by engaging in sex when she made it clear she didn't want it, at least not with him. Dumb.

Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 03:42 PM (BAnPT)

294 Saying there are dumb ideas in Avatar is different than saying it's poorly made. It's expertly made.

The Titanic has many, many stupid ideas in it. It's also an expertly made movie.

Movies can be stupid, inconsistent, and dumb -- and still be expertly made. Movies can be evil and expertly made.

Avatar was an extremely well-crafted movie in terms of giving the audience an intense emotional experience and a visual spectacle they have never seen before.

The visual spectacle doesn't last, of course, as VFX advances.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 03:43 PM (ZPrif)

295 btw, after watching 'Prometheus' I watched "Outland"

- to get rid of the sci fi ick Ridley Scott deposited in my brain.

"Outland" - it's timeless.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at November 15, 2012 03:43 PM (RuUvx)

296 I`d love to see a series of those five minute
summary videos of big movies where a sensible person sees the problem
and resolves it, instead of fumbling it into a disaster. Posted by: Merovign


H-wood seems to reward the kind of lazy, hack writing in which plot advancement is due to the stupidity of the protagonists (SEE: The Walking Dead Series 1, 2).

There are a few sci-fi/fantasy novelists that don't do this. GRR Martin treats his characters with respect even though they are all flawed.

Harry Harrison's Tale of the Fox has a good example of a bright protagonist who advances the plot mostly by being smart.

Ringo also loves his protags ... though probably too much at times.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 15, 2012 03:43 PM (uoA/0)

297 Serious or joke?


Let's see if he berates Ace for being a Christianist homophobe.

Posted by: fluffy at November 15, 2012 03:43 PM (z9HTb)

298 >>> It even had the classic "springloaded cat" scene!

I don't know the answer to this: Was that already a classic, or did Alien make it a classic (by which I mean "cliche")?

I don't know many horror movies prior to Alien so I don't know.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 03:43 PM (LCRYB)

299 Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD

Thanks for bringing up Sunshine.

It set such a standard that it puts Prometheus and Avatar in perspective as failed attempts.

Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 03:44 PM (+paCV)

300 >>>Proof that as you get older and fatter you get a bit lazier and less visonary.

I got $6 Billion reasons that your wrong, son.

Posted by: Hondo Lucas at November 15, 2012 03:44 PM (/ZZCn)

301 >>>The evil robot that has no feelings yet is so perverted as to enjoy destroying humans is nothing new since 2001 Space Odyssey.

1. Hal wasn't evil
2. Hal did have feelings.
3. Hal didn't enjoy killing the crew, he was confused and felt is was something he had to do.

If you had read/watched 2010 you'd know all of that.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 15, 2012 03:44 PM (0q2P7)

302 263 -

The thing I remember most about it was the obviously fake glow in the dark lilypads. It looked like it was filmed on a soundstage, which I assume, it was.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 15, 2012 03:44 PM (TOk1P)

303 Avatar and its ilk are forgotten in less than 10 years. That keeps me warm at night as a movie watcher.


Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 15, 2012 03:44 PM (xAtAj)

304 Would love to see Ace's review of Ice Pirates.

Posted by: Anonymous Coward at November 15, 2012 03:45 PM (t4cl/)

305 "Aliens had 10 minutes with Newt and her family, pre-tragedy, until he
realized you don't have to show Newt's family to convince the audience
that she did in fact previously have a family."

Posted by: ace


I think cutting that 10 minutes it had more to do with the family playing with Newt's little brother and a jack in the box and them all looking at the camera and saying, "Geez! I'm glad that didn't jump out of my chest!"

It needed to be cut.

Posted by: Dang at November 15, 2012 03:45 PM (R18D0)

306 She gets completely nekkid in that one, although for one time she gets the shit raped out of her.


Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 03:37 PM (GQ8sn)


Literally. The scene of her limping down the road after is brutal.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 15, 2012 03:45 PM (da5Wo)

307 I liked Knowing. That movie actually had a good plot with a surprise ending. The airplane crash scene was totally awesome too. I thought I was going to have to make a trip to clean out my pants.

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 03:46 PM (YdQQY)

308 And bitchy. Characters are bitchy.

Really easy to get "bitchy" wrong and ruin a whole movie.

Posted by: eleven at November 15, 2012 03:46 PM (KXm42)

309 ::::268 I, continually, could not figure out whether the lead actress was teh hawt.

You can watch "The Girl With The Dragon Tatto" original Swedish version and see for yourself. She gets completely nekkid in that one, although for one time she gets the shit raped out of her.
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 03:37 PM (GQ8sn)::::

Did it happen at the Number Six dance?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2012 03:46 PM (9043P)

310 Avatar won't be forgotten in 10 years. He's making Avatar 2 and 3 -- possibly as we speak.

It's, by far, the highest grossing movie ever made. Hollywood doesn't forget things like that.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 03:46 PM (ZPrif)

311
Avatar?

The useful thing in Avatar...was the theme of 'Defiance against Tyranny'.

Yeah, I know...it was supposed to be about big bad corporate greed, taking people's land without asking.

But the same thing applies to all Tyranny.

So, if things do go to hell in a handbasket...we can paint ourselves Blue and use the Avatar meme to combat Barky's tyranny.
Let the media choke on that.

The Leftists are slow to realizing that they themselves are the ones who are on the side of Tyranny now.

Posted by: wheatie at November 15, 2012 03:47 PM (ICEh3)

312 >> Did it happen at the Number Six dance?

*golf claps*

Posted by: Andy at November 15, 2012 03:47 PM (5Rurq)

313 >>>The evil robot that has no feelings yet is so perverted as to enjoy destroying humans is nothing new since 2001 Space Odyssey.

It wasn't merely a ripoff of 2001: A Space Odyssey, it was a ripoff of the film this was a prequel to, Alien!!!

This is where I call "Creative Cowardice." He's so intent on making a remake of Alien -- every beat's the goddamn same; they even have a Chestburster analogue (the creature inside the girl).

They are SO determined to do a remake of alien they also have to include the British-Accent Android Who Wants To Kill You Because His Corporate Programs Instructed Him To.

Is this studio interference, insisting on a Same But Different movie, or is Ridley Scott this without a new idea?

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 03:47 PM (LCRYB)

314 The funny thing about Avatar is that it was already done. I'm not talking about Dances With Wolves or anything like that. There was a French made cartoon movie that had the exact same plot down to a T.

It was called "Battle For Terra".

Watch it and see just how much James Cameron stole from that movie.

-humans come to a planet inhabited by aliens because they have something they want; ecological disaster angle used again

-female alien character meets up with young male human character and turns him to her cause

-humans cannot breathe the air on the alien planet

-alien father character sacrifices himself to save daughter and human male character

-evil human leader in charge of the expedition is killed at the end

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 03:47 PM (GQ8sn)

315 295 Bumperstickerist,

well that's because Outland was a movie with a plot about human interaction and flaws...

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:48 PM (LRFds)

316 I liked Knowing. That movie actually had a good plot with a surprise ending. The airplane crash scene was totally awesome too. I thought I was going to have to make a trip to clean out my pants.

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 03:46 PM (YdQQY)


Yep. Knowing was awesome. The airplane crash scene was unbelievably well done (putting all of the crappy effects in Avatar to shame) and the car crash scene at the end was even more realistic and stunning. the whole movie was well-written, well-directed, well-acted (even with Nicholas Cage) and held tightly right up to the very end. It was a textbook example of the well-made movie.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 03:48 PM (X3lox)

317 Ace, thank you!

I can now not feel bad about missing this movie, which (since I am avoiding giving money to Hollywood) I was going to do anyway, although with regret.

Excellent review, and an enjoyable read. I also liked the discussion about the phases of space travel.

I prefer the Star Wars commercial phase, myself. I am not a fan of the institution type movies.

Posted by: Miss Marple at November 15, 2012 03:48 PM (GoIUi)

318 H-wood seems to reward the kind of lazy, hack
writing in which plot advancement is due to the stupidity of the
protagonists (SEE: The Walking Dead Series 1, 2).

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 15, 2012 03:43 PM (uoA/0)


In all fairness, the dumb movies make the most money. So, Hollywood is simply following demand. Typically, the more intelligent or complex the movie or tv show, the worse it does. We only now get some pretty good TV b/c with so many cable channels and the market broken up, much smaller ratings can carry a show.

Not saying that there aren't a ton of hack Hollywood writers, directors, etc. But they get work b/c the people buy their stuff.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at November 15, 2012 03:49 PM (sOx93)

319 The Punk Rock Geologist didn't do it for the money. He did it, for a $HIT LOAD OF MONEY!


By the way, I saw Punk Rock Geologist at the Troubador last week.

Posted by: Concern Troll at November 15, 2012 03:49 PM (4KOF2)

320
You could simply put a blade edge ON the arm.

That would be a very serious safety hazard.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy, who did not vote for this shit. at November 15, 2012 03:49 PM (lOmbq)

321 It's, by far, the highest grossing movie ever made. Hollywood doesn't forget things like that.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 03:46 PM (ZPrif)
I honestly don't remember most of the story already. 1/3 Pochahantas, 1/3 Dancing With Wolves, 1/3 ???

Completely forgettable.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 15, 2012 03:49 PM (xAtAj)

322 Prometheus is a wretched movie. Uninteresting and disturbingly pointless.Calling it a dumb remake of Alien is an injustice to dumb remakes. I thought it was more of a high budget Alien v. Predator, minus a reason to laugh.

Posted by: habeas dorkus at November 15, 2012 03:49 PM (X52NV)

323 Saying there are dumb ideas in Avatar is different than saying it's poorly made. It's expertly made.

No, Avatar was basically lifted wholesale from a series of movies that actually were well-made, by someone who didn't understand why those movies were good. It's a cheap Chinese clone of good movies.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 03:49 PM (B/VB5)

324 301 MikeTheMoose,

Hal had more character and compassion and was more human than Jugears....

and I am not a 2001 wonk.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (LRFds)

325 Institutional Space Ships > White > Going to Hell

Posted by: Minuteman at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (1Rw2p)

326 I got $6 Billion reasons that your wrong, son. Posted by: Hondo Lucas

You still could use an editor, Mr. Lucas, for everything that comes out of your piehole.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (uoA/0)

327 Is this studio interference, insisting on a Same But Different movie, or is Ridley Scott this without a new idea?

Posted by: ace





Back off man, his brother just jumped off a bridge after seeing the movie.

Posted by: Daybrother forgets stuff at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (+paCV)

328 Wish they went with the original route or even the pitch that Scott and Cameron had for a new entry but I liked what came out. And the 3D is breathtaking on my tv.


side note, Wreck-It Ralph was damn good other than two things. At the half point, the cameos of classic videogame characters stopped which sucked. Second is they fucked up the Konami code, how do you fuck this up and make it a focal point? Also, the short The Paperman is the best one that Pixar has ever done (though I would have liked it if the dude was a salaryman)

Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (tw6Ar)

329 Institutional Space Ships > White > Going to Hell

*golf claps*

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (GQ8sn)

330 Prometheus is every bit as bad as Avatar.

Neither are worth watching.


Posted by: panzernashorn


Nothing is as bad as Avatar. The first 2 minutes into the movie and idiot like myself could see who the final epic fight was going to be between and what piece of hardware the bad guy was going to be using. Had to sit there for 3 hours waiting for the inevitable. I should have slit my own throat. Or left the theater.

Posted by: Dang at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (R18D0)

331 might have been pointed out already, since I haven't read through all of this but...

You fly through space in a trillion dollar ship to a far off planet, and the first thing you do when you get there is...


Manually fly it into the atmosphere and down canyons???!!! No orbital survey to find where they want to land and determine the best approach?

Nothing?

"Screw it!! I'm Tom Cruise, watch this!"

Posted by: sdavis at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (njVMI)

332 304
Would love to see Ace's review of Ice Pirates.

Posted by: Anonymous Coward at November 15, 2012 03:45 PM (t4cl/)
Man, I loved Ice Pirates when it ran continuously on HBO.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at November 15, 2012 03:51 PM (sOx93)

333 325
Institutional Space Ships > White > Going to Hell

Posted by: Minuteman at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (1Rw2p)

Alright the internet has been won. Internet is over. Time to go home.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 15, 2012 03:51 PM (xAtAj)

334 "well that's because Outland was a movie with a plot about human interaction and flaws..."

This goes to ace's point about competence - one of the things I like about "Outland" is the scene where an attempt is made to strangle Sean Connery from behind with a garrote, but after the bad guy is killed, Connery takes off a velcroed - low-tech neck protector.

Real World Smart.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at November 15, 2012 03:51 PM (RuUvx)

335
. Her boyfriend and the rest of the crew are dead, the ship is destroyed, she had an alien inside her and another that tried to kill her and she wants to know why? I think, at that point, retribution should have been the order of the day.

**************************

Liberalism really is a mental disorder.

Posted by: Lauren at November 15, 2012 03:51 PM (wsGWu)

336
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 03:47 PM (GQ8sn)

or you know, you could go back even farther where the story originated with Call Me Joe

Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 03:52 PM (tw6Ar)

337 It's not so much that dumb movies make the most money as -- movies that can be easily understood by a global audience. Cleverness is more context-dependent and culture-specific. Comedies and subtle dramas don't do was well internationally because the foreign audience doesn't get the joke or the subtlety of the drama. Foreigners understand giant robots exploding, though, and hot chicks with glistening tits.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 03:52 PM (ZPrif)

338 Her boyfriend and the rest of the crew are dead, the ship is destroyed,
she had an alien inside her and another that tried to kill her and she
wants to know why? I think, at that point, retribution should have been
the order of the day.


*taking a page from the democrat playbook*

She had to find out why they hated her so much and how to fix that.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 03:53 PM (GQ8sn)

339 @321
1/3 Smurfs.

All this alien talk got me thinking. Did anyone see Event Horizon? I thought that was interesting. It was more Horror than Sci-Fi

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 03:53 PM (t06LC)

340 Well new Obama thread up

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 03:54 PM (YdQQY)

341 All this alien talk got me thinking. Did anyone see Event Horizon? I
thought that was interesting. It was more Horror than Sci-Fi


Haunted house in space.


Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 03:54 PM (GQ8sn)

342 314 -

Wow, with a few small changes, that is essentially a description of Disney's Tarzan cartoon as well.

Posted by: BurtTC at November 15, 2012 03:54 PM (TOk1P)

343 All this alien talk got me thinking. Did anyone see
Event Horizon? I thought that was interesting. It was more Horror than
Sci-Fi

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 03:53 PM (t06LC)

Only good thing Paul W.S. Anderson has ever made

Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 03:54 PM (tw6Ar)

344 I just watched Event Horizon a few months ago. I had low expectations going in both for horror and Sci-Fi but it actually managed to be pretty creepy.

Posted by: Lauren at November 15, 2012 03:55 PM (wsGWu)

345
EVENT HORIZON is kinda like PANDORA

Posted by: soothsayer at November 15, 2012 03:55 PM (v8xyR)

346 I agree with the commenter upthread about Avatar. I went because it promised to show me something that I'd never really seen before and it delivered. I really did like the visuals.

The storyline did suck herpetic weasel dicks, though. Unobtainium? Give me a fucking break.

Posted by: Soona at November 15, 2012 03:55 PM (0Y8Gz)

347 Manually fly it into the atmosphere and down canyons???!!! No orbital survey to find where they want to land and determine the best approach?

That's a side effect of the common trope where people writing movies set in space forget that there are 3 dimensions of movement. That's one of the reasons Wrath of Khan is a classic: they explicitly drive the Enterprise right through that trope after Spock calls it out.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 03:56 PM (B/VB5)

348 sdavis,

How about this: They land, and it's almost dark, and the Captain -- the CAPTAIN -- says "it's getting dark, we'll make camp for the night, and go out to the ruins at dawn."

And the SCIENTIST says, "No, I've been waiting for this for five years, I'm going now!"

And then everyone goes now.

...?

This is what happens on a spaceship? A captain gives an order about safety, and securing the ship and the landing area, and when he will permit people to venture out, and then a passenger/specialist with no rank whatsoever gives a contrary order based on Enthusiasm and Devil May Care Excitement and everyone says, "Hey, let's listen to the stubble-bearded scientist guy, the captain's all wet"?

This is what happens on interstellar spaceflights to unknown alien worlds which ARE EXPECTED TO BE INHABITED? (That's the whole point, they think there's life on the planet.)

People just sort of make up their own minds about whether the Captain has authority to give orders, or the stubble-bearded, over-emotional drunk of a scientist does?



Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 03:56 PM (LCRYB)

349 Unobtainium? Give me a fucking break.

I believe you can buy that on the precious metals market now.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 03:56 PM (GQ8sn)

350 >>>Hal had more character and compassion and was more human than Jugears....
and I am not a 2001 wonk.

In 2010 during the end this conversation.

"Thank you for telling me the truth.
...
Will I dream?
...
three..two..one..Full Thrust"

I cried.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 15, 2012 03:56 PM (0q2P7)

351 I just watched Event Horizon a few months ago. I had
low expectations going in both for horror and Sci-Fi but it actually
managed to be pretty creepy.

Posted by: Lauren at November 15, 2012 03:55 PM (wsGWu)

best part of it is the short clip of the crew of Event Horizon

Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 03:56 PM (tw6Ar)

352 ::::It wasn't merely a ripoff of 2001: A Space Odyssey, it was a ripoff of the film this was a prequel to, Alien!!! ::::

I don't find that as outrageous as substituting a comma for a the Colin that should have gone between "to" and "Alien" in that absolute abortion of a sentence.

Have you no respect for the written word?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2012 03:56 PM (9043P)

353
The first 2 minutes into the movie and idiot like
myself could see who the final epic fight was going to be between and
what piece of hardware the bad guy was going to be using. Had to sit
there for 3 hours waiting for the inevitable. I should have slit my own
throat. Or left the theater.


Posted by: Dang at November 15, 2012 03:50 PM (R18D0)






Yep. And it was just a rehash of Ripley vs Bitch Alien, except "I've got a GREAT idea! Let's put the BAD GUY in the power loader this time!"

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 15, 2012 03:57 PM (TIIx5)

354 The Avatar bashing is part of the whole surrender of the culture war that Breitbart was on about. There are reasons why more people paid more money to see that than any other movie ever. And it's not because everybody thought, "Hey, this is a fucking retarded piece of shit!"

When a TV show or movie is insanely popular, there are usually some non-retarded reasons why it's popular. And it's probably not because everybody but you is a fucking retard who is too stupid to know they are watching total shit.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 03:57 PM (ZPrif)

355 sidebar alert: science "expert" rdbrewer invoking dunning-kruger, of all things for a relative science nescient to invoke, to mock chris matthews for a scientifically factual statement.

sure, fat matthews nearly certainly meant to speak of absorption of co2. problem for rdbrewer's schadenfreude? trees most certainly do absorb carbon monoxide...to the extent that if they didn't, he wouldn't even be here to make such a blindingly ignorant statement.

maybe you're just going for conformity instead of "the best" o.O?

Posted by: jimi ray at November 15, 2012 03:57 PM (79EF9)

356 I liked Knowing. That movie actually had a good plot with a surprise ending.


I was really stunned that Proyas was allowed to end it the way he did. If you haven't seen Dark City, you really should, that is a wonderful film.


I just saw that Proyas is going to be directing a tv show called Evolve that's based on the Toxic City novels. Please oh please oh please not to be mucking that up.


I think part of the reason I'm so bitter about how Sunshine ends is because the plot up to the last half hour or so is really really interesting. What turns out to be the MacGuffin of the ship getting severely damaged by a surprise meteor storm and how the crew deals with that while still trying to carry out the mission is way more interesting then the route the plot ends up taking. That being said, I still recommend it, it's still quite good and I know there are some who prefer the way the plot does go.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 15, 2012 03:58 PM (VtjlW)

357
Notice Toonces isn't going to make the same mistake Bush did by only flying over the area. Supposedly Bush did not want to interfere with the recovery efforts by bigfooting around the Big Easy, but he considers that to have been a huge mistake now.

And I think those critical of Christie need to take a look around coastal NJ before they kick him from the tent. Anything the Big Man did that wasn't obviously groping for every bit of help we could get would kill him here. If you doubt that, you have no idea the magnitude of this disaster.

Posted by: spongeworthy at November 15, 2012 03:58 PM (r5w1L)

358 Event Horizon was so depressingly hopeless. There's just no way out. You can't root for anybody because it's pointless.

Posted by: eleven at November 15, 2012 03:58 PM (KXm42)

359 Thanks for fucking my joke with your Goddamned commie pinko autocorrect, Steve Jobs! I should dig you up and kick your fucking skeleton right in the ribs.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2012 03:58 PM (9043P)

360 350 MikeTheMoose,

He felt more guilt than Obama does for the Ohio unemployed.

Like i said not a 2001 wonk I got it and it was sad.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 03:58 PM (LRFds)

361 350
>>>Hal had more character and compassion and was more human than Jugears....
and I am not a 2001 wonk.

In 2010 during the end this conversation.

"Thank you for telling me the truth.
...
Will I dream?
...
three..two..one..Full Thrust"

I cried.



"What are you doing Dave? Stop that. I can feel my mind going...I'm sure we can work things out. Please take a stress pill, you'll feel better. I can feel my mind....going...

...GIVEITAWAYGIVEITAWAYGIVEITAWAYNOW! GIVEITAWAYGIVEITAWAYGIVEITAWAYNOW!
GIVEITAWAYGIVEITAWAYGIVEITAWAYNOW!"

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 03:59 PM (GQ8sn)

362 giving the audience an intense emotional experience

yeah, like I said contemplation of suicide.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 03:59 PM (3BbLJ)

363 When the Elder god was spawned in the medical chamber, I started rooting for it to kill the whole crew.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 03:59 PM (5CDzH)

364 >>This is what happens on a spaceship? A captain gives an order about
safety, and securing the ship and the landing area, and when he will
permit people to venture out, and then a passenger/specialist with no
rank whatsoever gives a contrary order based on Enthusiasm and Devil May
Care Excitement and everyone says, "Hey, let's listen to the
stubble-bearded scientist guy, the captain's all wet"?


There were definitely chain of command issues in the film; I mean who was really in charge of the mission?

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 15, 2012 03:59 PM (b+jI9)

365 Event Horizon was so depressingly hopeless. There's just no way out. You can't root for anybody because it's pointless.


Posted by: eleven at November 15, 2012 03:58 PM (KXm42)

You root for Sam Neil and the ship

Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 03:59 PM (tw6Ar)

366 >>> It even had the classic "springloaded cat" scene!

I don't know the answer to this: Was that already a classic, or did Alien make it a classic (by which I mean "cliche")?

I don't know many horror movies prior to Alien so I don't know.


It's usually pigeons.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 04:00 PM (QupBk)

367 I mean who was really in charge of the mission?


Posted by: Dr Spank at November 15, 2012 03:59 PM (b+jI9)

Fassbender

Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 04:00 PM (tw6Ar)

368 357 Spongeworthy,

I was in Rita and aided the Katrina recovery I've been in a few storms is Sandy bad?

Yes

Is it worse than it had to be?

Yes

Is stupid Hyper Blue models interfering?

Yes

Is Chris Christie and asshole for sucking off bambi b/c he is afraid of maltreatment?

Probably.......

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:00 PM (LRFds)

369 To think I used to laugh at people whoposted comments tothe wrong thread.

Posted by: spongeworthy at November 15, 2012 04:01 PM (r5w1L)

370 The Avatar bashing is part of the whole surrender of the culture war that Breitbart was on about. There are reasons why more people paid more money to see that than any other movie ever. And it's not because everybody thought, "Hey, this is a fucking retarded piece of shit!"

In large part it was because that piece of shit movie was so overhyped and sold as the greatest piece of special effects ever in history. The effects in Avatar were pretty crappy, especially considering how much they spent on them.

Jut because lots of people pay lots of money to see something says nothing about whether it's good or not. We've had enough blank canvases in museums and at art sales to long ago put that naive notion to rest.

When a TV show or movie is insanely popular, there are usually some non-retarded reasons why it's popular. And it's probably not because everybody but you is a fucking retard who is too stupid to know they are watching total shit.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 03:57 PM (ZPrif)


Again, that's just not true. Barky just won re-election, for fuck's sake!! Come on, man. Now is not the time to claim that populatrity among the leftist shitholes means much of anything regarding quality or competency.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 04:01 PM (X3lox)

371 I would add (if someone hasn't already) that even in a commercial phase, trans-light spaceship, the crew would have been introduced to each other and most likely done some training together long before the launch, considering this is an exploratory voyage.

Yeah it's possible for somebody to be hired commericially or brought on board a military command and not too many folks no them or know what they do but it's not likely in this circumstance out in space where one nut ball or saboteur can do an extreme amount of damage just by opening an airlock or three.

Most audiences and apparently most directors don't really consider the conditions on a vessel that is totally on it's own and is immersed in an environment that is extremely hostile to air breathing, water and carbon based life.

Even in the commercial phase ship, psychological testing would be done as a matter of course, or perhaps psychotropic medications might be used if the individual was uniquely qualified for the voyage.

The sense of isolation and threat would imbalance most normally stable people over time. (cabin fever anyone?)

But as you say, Ace, the art of story telling that seem plausible is tougher when they are set in environment that man has little experience with.

Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 04:01 PM (SP4jC)

372 Thank you, sven and Mike. I like humans.

Posted by: HAL 9000 at November 15, 2012 04:01 PM (nkiQM)

373
When a TV show or movie is insanely popular, there are usually some non-retarded reasons why it's popular.

And many times its stupid silly collectivist "I am supposed to like this cause its cool", but it really is crap which is exactly what AB was saying don't do.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 04:02 PM (3BbLJ)

374 I don't think Star trek is what you describe as institutional phase at all. The Governments have big powerful spaceships but weird traders, pirates, and miners and such seem to have their own smaller ships too.

Likewise Starwars had pristine Imperial Star destroyers and that shiny fancy blockade runner thing with the super polished floors and such.

Then you have Fprbidden Planet where the ship was metal colored and the inside looked a bit dingy but it was clearly a government ship populated by the best of the best of the best except for the drunk cook.

Posted by: Cackfinger at November 15, 2012 04:02 PM (CCHli)

375 evil robot's a cliché, moose. The point was, this guy was nothing compared to Hal. This movie did nothing except vomit vomit.

Her final act of going on to find the Creators' home (rather than return to Earth and report findings) was unsatisfactory. As if crashing the Destroyer's party is going to answer her "need" to be loved. And as if the meaning of Creator must be Destroyer. The concept itself is a rip-off as if life and creation must be war and death, no love and kindness. Even that being the ultimate point, it was made too poorly, as if all life is made too poorly. Tacky.

There's far too much opportunity with access to all the knowledge in the world available online to really create stellar stories on screen, making settling for mush totally unacceptable. Quantum mechanics, quantum physics, mysticism, visionary science, gnosticism, revolutionary theories about reality and consciousness -- put those dynamics into play on the silver screen. Meanwhile, Hollywood stays stuck on stupid, and spends their money producing squat that isn't even entertaining. It's an insult.

Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 04:02 PM (BAnPT)

376 The original Alien is a horror flick. Try to think of a time period and setting in which you couldn't remake it.

It could be remade as an adventure flick set in the 1920's with the crew journeying to some some part of Africa ala The Ghost and the Darkness.

Alaska in the 70's via a horror version of Alive. Conquistadors off the coast of Peru. Danish vikings <coughBeowulfcough>.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 15, 2012 04:04 PM (uoA/0)

377 And I think those critical of Christie need to take a look around coastal NJ before they kick him from the tent.

Posted by: spongeworthy at November 15, 2012 03:58 PM (r5w1L)


Christie is a miserable piece of shit who should be eaten alive by dogs that then end up on the Indonesian's dinner plate.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 04:04 PM (X3lox)

378 The Thing prequel stunk too.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 15, 2012 04:04 PM (b+jI9)

379 Thanks for fucking my joke with your Goddamned commie pinko autocorrect, Steve Jobs!
Are you certain it wasn't a case of human error, Empire of Jeff?

Posted by: HAL 9000 at November 15, 2012 04:05 PM (nkiQM)

380 The Thing prequel stunk too.


Posted by: Dr Spank at November 15, 2012 04:04 PM (b+jI9)

everyone knew it was going to suck though since they didn't adapt it from the The Thing videogame

Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 04:05 PM (tw6Ar)

381 waiting for the inevitable. I should have slit my own throat. Or left the theater.
**
Dang, easier to 'shut down, shut it all down' via Netflix.

Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 04:06 PM (BAnPT)

382 The Avatar bashing is part of the whole surrender of the culture war that Breitbart was on about. There are reasons why more people paid more money to see that than any other movie ever. And it's not because everybody thought, "Hey, this is a fucking retarded piece of shit!"

I bow to few in calling out the "kill your TV" crowd for violating Breitbart's First Commandment, but this is ridiculous. Avatar made money because it was the first big 3D movie done on modern processes and hyped to the heavens.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 04:07 PM (B/VB5)

383 The bad thing about prequels is - wait for it - you already know what happens later. The drama of not knowing is gone.

'You mean that little twerp Anakin will grow up to be Darth Vader?' bwahahaha thus ensuring Howard the Duck is no longer the worse movie Lucas ever made.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 04:07 PM (5CDzH)

384 You are missing the point. You don't like the ideas of Avatar so you are ignorantly saying it was poorly made.

Obama is an evil left-wing fuckstick. Obama ran an effective campaign. Both these statements can be true.

Insisting that TV and movies you disagree with are poorly made is childish, ignorant and harmful. Because you can't learn what the Left is doing well.

James Cameron is a leftist piece of dirt. He also is an extremely talented artist who spent decades mastering the technical aspects of film-making.

Insisting he sucks at making movies because you don't like his politics doesn't help change a damn thing. Cause he's made a fuck-ton of money from his skill and talent -- which he's using to make more leftist movies -- which your friends and neighbors will pay $15 to see in 3D.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 04:08 PM (ZPrif)

385 358 Event Horizon was so depressingly hopeless. There's just no way out. You can't root for anybody because it's pointless.
Posted by: eleven at November 15, 2012 03:58 PM (KXm42)

An allegory perhaps? #letitburn

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 04:08 PM (t06LC)

386 There's a theory that Vickers (played by Theron) was a post-op tranny.

It explains Weiland's desire for a "real" son, why she accepts the captain's invitation to prove she's really a woman, etc...

Posted by: supercore23 at November 15, 2012 04:09 PM (bwV72)

387 >>> would add (if someone hasn't already) that even in a commercial phase, trans-light spaceship, the crew would have been introduced to each other and most likely done some training together long before the launch, considering this is an exploratory voyage.

that was ridiculous -- now that we're 100 million light years from earth and beginning our final descent, it's time for you to MEET EACH OTHER FOR THE FIRST TIME, and time for me to explain WHAT THIS MISSION ACTUALLY IS -- but I give it a pass, because while it's ABSURD, you can see the choice here: We can either have this scene on earth, which we don't really care about as that's not what the story's about, or on the ship, which is important to the story.

Plus, they built that ship set, so they want to use it.

But... Oh God was that absurd.

Yeah, perfect time for the crew to be introduced to each other.

Why were they all kept apart before then? Was it like Reservoir Dogs? Are they all named Mr. White and Mr. Pink?

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 04:09 PM (LCRYB)

388 Insisting he sucks at making movies because you don't like his politics
doesn't help change a damn thing. Cause he's made a fuck-ton of money
from his skill and talent -- which he's using to make more leftist
movies -- which your friends and neighbors will pay $15 to see in 3D.


How about this?

Avatar was a highly polished turd.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 04:09 PM (GQ8sn)

389 382 Ian S,

I must have missed Andrew telling me I had to go watch shit.

Help a brother out?

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:09 PM (LRFds)

390
Unobtainium? Give me a fucking break.






I get the feeling that Cameron used "unobtanium" as a placeholder while he was xeroxing the "Battle for Terra" script.......errrr, writing "Avatar". But at some point he forgot to come up with a decent name for the element, and said fuckit.

He could have turned it into a laugh line in the scene where Ribisi and Weaver argue about the stuff, by having Ribisi mention that the guy who discovered it had a weird sense of humor.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 15, 2012 04:09 PM (TIIx5)

391 Oh, It also explains why the med-pod was calibrate for male anatomy maybe. Or because it was designed for Weiland. Either way.

Posted by: supercore23 at November 15, 2012 04:10 PM (bwV72)

392 Why were they all kept apart before then? Was it like Reservoir Dogs? Are they all named Mr. White and Mr. Pink?

Red Letter Media specifically calls that one out.

Why on earth would anyone sign up for a 4-6 year mission without knowing a single thing about it?

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 04:11 PM (GQ8sn)

393 You don't like the ideas of Avatar so you are ignorantly saying it was poorly made.

No, I'm pretty sure we hate the whole entire movie in all its aspects.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 04:11 PM (3BbLJ)

394 which your friends and neighbors will pay $15 to see in 3D.
**

The way 3D goes on screen is a let down for me. But why would I care to prevent anyone from either making 3D or paying to go see the 3D? The coast is clear.

Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 04:11 PM (BAnPT)

395 384 Flatbush Joe,

Yup we should follow the full leftard model and destroy him for not being on our side?

No fuck it it is theirs I am focusing on shit that matters.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:11 PM (LRFds)

396 39
>>>Star Trek isn't a perfect example of Institutional Phase
except for Enterprise. TOS was already in transition to Commercial Phase



ahhh... you're kind of mostly right, but in TOS most ships were
institutional, even the Klingon and Romulan ones, and of course the main
ship was.

Sure, there were some commercial ships here and there.


WRONG! Go back to Captain Pike surrounded by space traders and superhot-green- Orion-space-chicks as love slaves. It wouldn't have worked as a believable fantasy for Pike if it wasn't grounded in his experience. Rodenberry focused on the Enterprise because it was easier than coming up with believable economic systems, which failed miserably when they tried in TNG.

I know Ace, I know.

Posted by: Worf, the Wonder Klingon at November 15, 2012 04:11 PM (E9Z5P)

397 The bad thing about prequels is - wait for it - you already know what happens later. The drama of not knowing is gone.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 04:07 PM (5CDzH)


Dream House is an interesting movie that gets better when you know the story and the ending. It's a bit confusing and disjoint the first time, though still a good movie. But when you know how it's supposed to go then it gets much better.

Oddly, I liked Secretariat and enjoyed watching the race scenes even though I knew how they would end up. They were still thrilling.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 04:11 PM (X3lox)

398
Speaking of expertly made stupid movies: Try watching "Avatar" with the Rifftrax. You'll laugh your ass off.

Last night, I attended a speech by Harrison Schmidt at the Adler Planetarium, as part of the Adler's celebration of the 40th anniversary of Apollo 17. It was a good speech by a very interesting man. It's good to be reminded that there are men like him in the world; but sad to reminded of how far we've fallen in the last 40 years.

Posted by: Brown Line at November 15, 2012 04:12 PM (VrNoa)

399 @354

I had a girl in Lowes checking me out (in every meaning of the word) ask me if I saw Avatar. She said she had and kept going on about the visuals. I asked her what it was about and she gave me a blank stare and said "Aliens and stuff"

The visuals sold the movie, not the message.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 04:13 PM (t06LC)

400 The way 3D goes on screen is a let down for me. But
why would I care to prevent anyone from either making 3D or paying to go
see the 3D? The coast is clear.


Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 04:11 PM (BAnPT)

try active 3D glasses, looks a lot better than the REAL3D stuff

Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 04:13 PM (tw6Ar)

401
The bad thing about prequels is - wait for it - you already know what happens later. The drama of not knowing is gone.Posted by: Anna Puma


This x∞

I watch prequels with points already deducted.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 15, 2012 04:13 PM (uoA/0)

402 Flatbush Joe, here's a question for ya:

What if Avatar was a cartoon? Would it have still made the same money? Why or why not?

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 04:13 PM (GQ8sn)

403 My urge to watch Avatar died when I flipped through one of the books that came out at the time of the movie. All the major fauna was hexapedal but the intelligent species is bipedal. Say what will Mr. Cameron and your claim of how everything on Pandora was thoroughly thought out?

After that I saw no need to support that movie or Cameron. Now that he had embraced his capitalistic evil self to make Avatar sequels, he can forget about any future money from me.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 04:13 PM (5CDzH)

404 I agree as to Alien being the premier of nitty gritty Scifi.

It is the ONLY movie that ever scared me. (Not startled. That's different) I still get queasy thinking about the possible existence of a starfish thingy that latches on to your face and impregnates you.

(which is a form of parasitic relationship that can be found in certain insects)

Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 04:14 PM (SP4jC)

405 Avatar's "special effects" amounted to making everything on that stupid planet glow like a fucking black light poster in the stupid hippy pothead kid's dorm room. You know who I'm talking about. Every dorm has one.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2012 04:14 PM (9043P)

406 @390
Should have just called it "McGuffin"

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 04:14 PM (t06LC)

407 The reason Avatar did so well is because a huge % of people who saw it immediately told all their friends and family that they have to see it cause it's so awesome. And a huge % of people who saw it decided they had to see it again and again because they liked it that much. And this happened all over the fucking planet because the movie was crafted in a way to have universal appeal.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 04:15 PM (ZPrif)

408 I must have missed Andrew telling me I had to go watch shit.

Because that's not what he said, and it's definitely not what I said.

Andrew said politics is downstream from culture. You can create a decisive movement in the ballot box from a relatively small movement in the culture, and it's both more effective and more fun than just straight politicking. It's worked insanely well for a variety of leftist causes (most recently gay marriage), and conservatives/libertarians need to get a lot better at it instead of just ignoring it and hoping it goes away.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 04:15 PM (B/VB5)

409 Prometheus gave me tingles in my leg.

Posted by: Mr. Lurky McLurkington, Esq. at November 15, 2012 04:17 PM (9ks0K)

410 Flatbush Joe, here's a question for ya:

What if Avatar was a cartoon? Would it have still made the same money? Why or why not?


Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 04:13 PM (GQ8sn)

maybe not as much but as a CG film, it would have been close

Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 04:17 PM (tw6Ar)

411 405 Empire of Jeff,

I see you've met my ex....

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:17 PM (LRFds)

412 I'm not saying you are wrong for not watching or not liking Avatar. I'm saying you are wrong for insisting -- in the face of mountains of evidence -- that it's a poorly made film.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 04:18 PM (ZPrif)

413 "Duck Dodgers, we have run out of the shaving cream molecule. The sole remaining source is on Planet X."

Thus Avatar the movie was born.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 04:18 PM (5CDzH)

414 I get the feeling that Cameron used "unobtanium" as a placeholder while he was xeroxing the "Battle for Terra" script.......errrr, writing "Avatar". But at some point he forgot to come up with a decent name for the element, and said fuckit.::::::

Oh, fucking SNAP!!!

That. Right there.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2012 04:18 PM (9043P)

415 If The Matrix had not come out when it did, the 13th Floor would have been the big Sci-Fi hit of the year. A superior movie overshadowed by a flashier one.

Posted by: toby928© comes out of left field at November 15, 2012 04:19 PM (QupBk)

416 Ditto Deep Impact and Armageddon.

Posted by: toby928© comes out of left field at November 15, 2012 04:19 PM (QupBk)

417 If The Matrix had not come out when it did, the 13th
Floor would have been the big Sci-Fi hit of the year. A superior movie
overshadowed by a flashier one.

Posted by: toby928© comes out of left field at November 15, 2012 04:19 PM (QupBk)

agreed

Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 04:20 PM (tw6Ar)

418 maybe not as much but as a CG film, it would have been close

No way. It would not have been close at all.

The SFX was the only reason why this movie did so well. Take that away and what are you left with?

Battle For Terra.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 04:20 PM (GQ8sn)

419 I have a lot more respect for Deep Impact as a decent end of the world movie compared to Armageddon or 2012.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 04:20 PM (5CDzH)

420 I don't get the question about Avatar as cartoon. No idea. Some CG movies have made tons of money, but mainly as kid's movies. There hasn't been an all CG "serious" movie that's been a huge hit yet.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 04:20 PM (ZPrif)

421 408 Ian S,

Tell you what instead of my wishcasting that our side ever gets a fuck about this wonderful donk contraption I will go master reloading and simple applied carpentry while hoping the wife masters canning. Then I'll be able to have a REAL laugh after I have managed to husband up a 15 month supply of spare food when the implosion hits watching what movie Obarka's bestest buds come up with to convince the sheep that I am to blame for their choco ration going up from 10 grams to 2.....

Fuck the blue we are no longer a nation.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:21 PM (LRFds)

422 What if Avatar was a cartoon? Would it have still made the same money? Why or why not?Posted by: EC

Being that a significant chunk of the movie *is* computer animation, almost exactly the same.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 15, 2012 04:21 PM (uoA/0)

423 419 Anna puma,

Much as morgan freeman's actions pain me it was a much better film.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:21 PM (LRFds)

424 Sorry to hear that Sven. My first wife was no fuckin prize herself.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 15, 2012 04:21 PM (9043P)

425 I'm not saying you are wrong for not watching or not liking Avatar. I'm saying you are wrong for insisting -- in the face of mountains of evidence -- that it's a poorly made film.

I'm pretty sure there are no film schools teaching Avatar as Great Art, or any kind of admirable example of how to do pretty much anything.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 04:21 PM (B/VB5)

426 Another problem with Prometheus : The robot spiking one of the crew's drink with alien juice. That could have infected the whole ship and killed everyone. Whose idea was that?

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 15, 2012 04:22 PM (b+jI9)

427 No way. It would not have been close at all.

The SFX was the only reason why this movie did so well. Take that away and what are you left with?

Battle For Terra.


Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 04:20 PM (GQ8sn)

"new movie from James Cameron" sells itself

Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 04:22 PM (tw6Ar)

428 Ace, you should do restaurant reviews. I imagine they'd put 1,700 word points about a movie to shame.

Posted by: Chris at November 15, 2012 04:22 PM (gI9Bk)

429 Flatbush Joe

The stories of both movies, Avatar and Prometheus, are both lousy imo.

Btw, I was critical of Saving Private Ryan when it came out and everyone raved on and on and on about how great it was, the greatest war movie ever made, yada yada yada.

My criticism? The basis was totally unfounded. It would never have happened. It was revisionist history to project modern PC sensibilities as if the norm during WWII. And there was no need to aggrandize the way that soldiers, or as the case was, one specific grunt soldier, would receive such particularly special consideration that would require the entire mechanisms playing out in the reality to suspend, for a platoon to be sent on a wild goose chase to find a needle in the haystack. That movie made a mockery of the very real sacrifices that families made as THEIR young men in military combat would NEVER receive such special considerations, no matter what.

That is not to say that the acting was bad, or the filming bad, or the rest of the whole was bad. Only that it was a piss poor way to bend over backwards as if that were necessary in order to respect America's so-called "greatest generation" of veterans.

I don't like seeing revisionism happening, younger adults unaware, Hollywood's bill of goods setting up unrealistic expectations.

Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 04:22 PM (BAnPT)

430 I have a lot more respect for Deep Impact as a decent end of the world movie compared to Armageddon or 2012.

And it had Robert Duval, which tells you right away it's a better film. The part that made me tear up was when they noted that, in giving up their lives to save the world, they would never know if it worked or not.

Posted by: toby928© comes out of left field at November 15, 2012 04:23 PM (QupBk)

431 412 Flatbush Joe,

are we discussing its merits as entertainment or Leni Riefensthal for the Sierra Club?

That is what it boils down to you know?

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:23 PM (LRFds)

432 I don't get the question about Avatar as cartoon. No idea. Some CG
movies have made tons of money, but mainly as kid's movies. There hasn't
been an all CG "serious" movie that's been a huge hit yet.


Take away the SFX and 3D bullshit and what are you left with? A cliche of a story that's been done at least a half dozen times before with different settings. Battle For Terra was probably what James Cameron watched and decided, "Shit, I can make something like that!" If all the flashy SFX are removed, does the story still stand on its own to make the same money over again?

No.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 04:23 PM (GQ8sn)

433 Ian -- You are totally wrong. There are film and VFX schools which totally teach Avatar as an example, pretty much all of them in fact.

It's the highest grossing movie of all time! Of course teachers are teaching it and students are studying it.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 04:23 PM (ZPrif)

434 Flatbush Joe. Depends upon the country. Studio Ghibli's film Spirited Away in domestic Japanese release surpassed Titanic at the box office. But is it serious? For a young girl moving to a new place, who's parents have been turned into pigs, and is now indentured to the witch who cursed her parents; her desire to rescue her parents is pretty serious.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 04:23 PM (5CDzH)

435 424 Empire of Jeff,

I'm just happy the statue of limitations has expired you could make an argument we were common law and we never got around to a divorce.

Pain makes men

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:24 PM (LRFds)

436 426 exactly, the evil robot cliché.

"Because I Could"

Posted by: panzernashorn at November 15, 2012 04:24 PM (BAnPT)

437 355 sidebar alert: science "expert" rdbrewer invoking dunning-kruger, of all things for a relative science nescient to invoke, to mock chris matthews for a scientifically factual statement.
sure, fat matthews nearly certainly meant to speak of absorption of co2. problem for rdbrewer's schadenfreude? trees most certainly do absorb carbon monoxide...to the extent that if they didn't, he wouldn't even be here to make such a blindingly ignorant statement.
maybe you're just going for conformity instead of "the best" o.O?
Posted by: jimi ray at November 15, 2012 03:57 PM (79EF9)


I like it when jimi ray attempts to explain science to us morons. From what little my Pleistocene brain can understand it's a very complex and kinda scary magic but one that can also give us power over fire and wind. I hope it makes my good spear more accurate and my loincloth more breathable and absorbent.

Posted by: Mćtenloch at November 15, 2012 04:25 PM (pAlYe)

438 Take away the SFX and 3D bullshit and what are you
left with? A cliche of a story that's been done at least a half dozen
times before with different settings. Battle For Terra was probably what
James Cameron watched and decided, "Shit, I can make something like
that!" If all the flashy SFX are removed, does the story still stand on
its own to make the same money over again?

No.


Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 04:23 PM (GQ8sn)

Cameron was working on Avatar before there was any hint of Battle For Terra. And quit saying he stole it from the movie as Avatar was bought in parcel by Call Me Joe

Posted by: The Dude at November 15, 2012 04:25 PM (tw6Ar)

439 I'm not saying you are wrong for not watching or not liking Avatar. I'm
saying you are wrong for insisting -- in the face of mountains of
evidence -- that it's a poorly made film.


The clips I saw were excruciating. They were like being pounded on the head with a massive club made of smarm, reek, and smug.

Everything was telegraphed from about 5000 miles away, and the acting consisted of nothing but seething, boiling outrage and heroic shouting.

Somewhere along the way acting became Internet commentary and Tweeting.

Posted by: Llarry at November 15, 2012 04:26 PM (hzR9T)

440 430 Toby 928th,

RD could flat out act...he played that grim "i hope pray God." gambit to the hilt.....

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:26 PM (LRFds)

441 I get the feeling that Cameron used "unobtanium" as a placeholder while he was xeroxing the "Battle for Terra" script.......errrr, writing "Avatar". But at some point he forgot to come up with a decent name for the element, and said fuckit.

Good guess, but not true. In the script drafts, the element was called "Su Su Sudio".

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 04:26 PM (X3lox)

442
The people in Eurasia have always like Avatar. And SPAM.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 04:26 PM (3BbLJ)

443 "new movie from James Cameron" sells itself

Replace "movie" with iPhone and "James Cameron" with Apple. Some people are fanbois for no obvious reason.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 04:27 PM (GQ8sn)

444 Now that is the Ace movie review we've come to love.

Had the same reaction to a Jack Higgins novel Cold harbor (I think) where this specialized commando team one member tried to rape the female member and kill another. But he couldn't be gotten rid of, no sir because he was a crack pilot and spoke perfect German.

So instead of finding another pilot and someone else who could speak fluent German, you keep this guy in a crack commando/espionage team - and that will ensure the success of the mission - how? My willing suspension of disbelief just up and left and I never did finish the book.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - What a Relief at November 15, 2012 04:27 PM (hLRSq)

445 Spirited Away did well -- in the Japanese market. It doesn't remotely approach the business movies like Avatar or the Avengers did.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 04:27 PM (ZPrif)

446 On one of the movie threads, I want to discuss movies that you will watch one time, and one time only, even when you enjoyed them, vs movies you will watch over and over, and why.

Posted by: toby928© comes out of left field at November 15, 2012 04:27 PM (QupBk)

447 437 Maet,

well on a lighter or at least brighter note Jimi swears he will teach me how to make that hot blossom thing with the sparkle box....

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:27 PM (LRFds)

448 Insisting there is "no obvious reason" why millions upon millions of people kept buying movies from Cameron and gadgets from Steve Jobs is delusional and being willfully blind.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 04:28 PM (ZPrif)

449
first of all, Avatar WAS a cartoon. A live-action cartoon, but you see my point.

Anyhoo, in regards to Ace's original review, having only read Aliens: Engineers, but not seen "Prometheus", I don't think it's as institutional as you think. They mention having all kinds of extraplanetary mining already.Going to Zeta 2 blah-blah-blah may be new and exciting, but it's clearly in the script that the crew signed up on the basis of triple pay and was a bit bummed that there would be no bounty.
Also the "punk" geologist/archaeologist (because Jeff Goldblum as a hipster mathematician was such a hit with the kids) was the whole reason for the mission. Without his discovery, why would they even have gone? Did he have to have enough piercings to set off metal detectors? Of course not, but we're dealing with a man who thought "G.I. Jane" was worth making...
Lastly, their "chain of command" was little muddled to begin with. They have a supersuit (Vickers) in some sort of vague overall command and the scientist in charge (sort of) of the groundwork. The Captain in this case is really more just in charge of the ship. Maybe that's the way Weyland works, the Captain is only in charge of the space part, not so much in dictatorial command in the Navy sense ...
*clink* *clink* my two cents' worth...

Posted by: Stephen at November 15, 2012 04:28 PM (2HzUl)

450
Marketing sells tickets. And Presidents.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 04:29 PM (3BbLJ)

451 Yep. Deep Impact was Institutional Phase getting their act together to build a solution to a problem called an asteroid impact. Unlike Armageddon the Russian participation was not some guy half-gassed on vodka, Messiah's cosmonaut controlled the nukes. I still wish someone would make a mini-series of Lucifer's Hammer.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 04:29 PM (5CDzH)

452 Insisting there is "no obvious reason" why millions upon millions of
people kept buying movies from Cameron and gadgets from Steve Jobs is
delusional and being willfully blind.


Watching Apple fanbois assault and kill each other to be first in line when the next iPhone comes out makes me laugh. And I'm the delusional one?

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 04:30 PM (GQ8sn)

453
I don't think your avatar doll collection is going to amount to much. You should probably sell now.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 15, 2012 04:31 PM (3BbLJ)

454 Yeah, except for the basic premise, Saving Pvt Ryan was good.

To anyone ever even remotely associated with the military, it was an immediate deal breaker as to immersion.

The Army MIGHT have sent a message and/or messenger to whatever temporary HQ got setup after the initial assault but they would not delegate an officer to lead a squad to find him and bring him out.

They did have radio back in them old days ya know.

It was also a little strange that this squad waltzes across a war zone where the battle lines are in flux and no one is sure where the other forces are concentrating and don't run into any large force that proceeds to stomp them into mush.

Oh well, Tom Hanks got his "Hero Dying" scene he wanted so it's all good.

Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 04:31 PM (SP4jC)

455 @433: Cite? I find that quite unlikely given that 1) the state of the art in VFX has moved a long ways since Avatar came out, and 2) outside of the VFX there was literally nothing remarkable about the movie (hence the questions about "what if it was a cartoon"). There are far, far artier camera angles in Whedon's "The Avengers", let alone any number of 'serious' films.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 04:32 PM (B/VB5)

456 BTW - commercial space = Traveller. Institutions are still there, but all of the fun of running around with blasters and being lippy is available.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - What a Relief at November 15, 2012 04:32 PM (hLRSq)

457 215 Also, the Smurfs are supposed to be living out in the woods like Injuns, but they're all squeaky clean.

-----------

And they're supposed to be peaceful and all, but they havea word for "warrior" and recognize one when they see one.

Posted by: Citizen Anachronda at November 15, 2012 04:32 PM (FzhYM)

458 On one of the movie threads, I want to discuss movies that you will watch one time, and one time only, even when you enjoyed them, vs movies you will watch over and over, and why.

Posted by: toby928© comes out of left field at November 15, 2012 04:27 PM (QupBk)


One time only: Schindler's List

Over and over: Apocalypse Now

Never: Apocalypse Now Redux (and it kills the desire to ever see Apocalypse Now again)

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 04:32 PM (X3lox)

459 452 EC,

but this one doesn't use 3G at ALL!

//Apple Fanboi

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:32 PM (LRFds)

460 Oh wait, Duck Dodgers had to claim the last resource of the Illudium Phosdex shaving cream molecule. Chuck Jones and his writers invented better sounding fictional materials for a cartoon.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 04:32 PM (5CDzH)

461 Thanks, I was going to skip in anyway.

Posted by: Wendy at November 15, 2012 04:34 PM (KydDZ)

462 454 AK,

Yup Mash was Vietnam Set in korea....

SPR was Days of our Lives set in a set of Omaha Beach....

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:34 PM (LRFds)

463 Oh well, Tom Hanks got his "Hero Dying" scene he wanted so it's all good.
Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 04:31 PM (SP4jC)

Its the scene we should have got in "The Burbs" in a sane world.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 04:35 PM (t06LC)

464 Watching Apple fanbois assault and kill each other to be first in line when the next iPhone comes out makes me laugh. And I'm the delusional one?

That's why I preordered online.

Having the fastest instructions per clock available on any currently shipping phone atop a nice stable BSD UNIX base and a graphics processor 3 times faster than what Samsung is shipping is worth something to me. The blind haters are just as stupid as the blind lovers.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 04:36 PM (B/VB5)

465 463 JollyRoger,

or Big

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:36 PM (LRFds)

466 One of the greatest What the Hell moments of Prometheus was Vickers having the autodoc medical pod that can do a million different surgeries. But only on men. Say what?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 04:36 PM (5CDzH)

467 Btw, I was critical of Saving Private Ryan when it came out and everyone
raved on and on and on about how great it was, the greatest war movie
ever made, yada yada yada.

My criticism? The basis was totally
unfounded. It would never have happened. It was revisionist history to
project modern PC sensibilities as if the norm during WWII.


I hated the movie. It was PC revisionism to the point that the Americans were the bloodthirsty aggressors. In the opening scene they gun down unarmed, surrendering Germans, laugh, and loot their bodies. They stand outside a trench and fire down into helpless, sitting-duck Germans until they're all dead and then loot their bodies. They want to murder Steamboat Willie after he's surrendered.

Later in the film, after a violent fight, an SS trooper who just knifed an American to death spares the armed, cringing, cowardly typist on the stairs because the Kraut has honor. In the middle of a firefight, the SS trooper maintains his humanity.

Soon afterward that same cowardly, cringing typist murders Steamboat Willie in cold blood after he's surrendered.

It's a disgusting, deeply anti-American film confirmed by ending, in which Ryan expresses doubt that the sacrifices were worth it. The American flag--a weird, pale, ugly, translucent version of it--flies over a vast graveyard. America produces corpses, that's all.

Posted by: Llarry at November 15, 2012 04:37 PM (hzR9T)

468 Now that I think of it the entire idea of the Noble Savage is one that needs to die.
Apocolypto is a film that makes me sit back and say "Fuck. Maybe the Conquistadores weren't so bad after all."

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 04:38 PM (t06LC)

469 That was just...

Brilliant!

Posted by: Deety at November 15, 2012 04:38 PM (QG3g9)

470 464 Ian S.,

Unless you make money or get something for your incremental gain I would demur, of course this still being "America" as I understood it as a boy I won't try to stop you chasing the State of the Art....hell I would make the argument your addiction feeds progress in the field.....

Don't wory i'll be reeeducated by Jobs' favorite party soon.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:38 PM (LRFds)

471 One of the greatest What the Hell moments of Prometheus was Vickers having the autodoc medical pod that can do a million different surgeries. But only on men. Say what?

The bar was already set pretty low for "autodocs" by Star Trek Voyager, but yes, they did manage to limbo under it.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 04:38 PM (B/VB5)

472 One of the greatest What the Hell moments of Prometheus was Vickers
having the autodoc medical pod that can do a million different
surgeries. But only on men. Say what?


That was never intended for her. It was for Weyland only.

Vickers never says it was only for male patients either. Shaw finds out after she's inside it and the machine tells her it can only handle males.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 04:39 PM (GQ8sn)

473 @465

That was my first thought. I had to work in a Burbs refrence...

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 04:39 PM (t06LC)

474 Gonna go back and read it again!

Posted by: Deety at November 15, 2012 04:40 PM (QG3g9)

475 467 Lllarry,

You got that too?

Glad I'm not alone it was the first "fuck you" that registered from Spielberg to me.

Munich was the straw.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:40 PM (LRFds)

476 Cortez could have never taken Mexico City if the Aztecs had not already enslaved and abused other tribes. The Spanish in their armor and sticks that spoke thunder while riding fearsome beasts called horses that the locals had never seen made Cortez and the Catholic missionaries seem like Divine messengers; especially when they made it clear they wanted to defeat the Aztecs.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 04:41 PM (5CDzH)

477 390
Unobtainium? Give me a fucking break.
Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 15, 2012 04:09 PM (TIIx5)You call it unobtanium. We called it maize

Posted by: Zoe Saldana at November 15, 2012 04:41 PM (1Rw2p)

478 @470: I'm a professional programmer for an evil multinational corporation, so yes I do get a real benefit from the improved specs.

And yes, progress requires suckersearly adopters. Technology has always been thus.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 04:41 PM (B/VB5)

479 Didn't catch the SPR, but man it hit you in the face in the last Indiana Jones movie. WTF? Why does Spielberg hate America so much?

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 04:41 PM (t06LC)

480 Having the fastest instructions per clock available on any currently
shipping phone atop a nice stable BSD UNIX base and a graphics processor
3 times faster than what Samsung is shipping is worth something to me.
The blind haters are just as stupid as the blind lovers.



Good for you. At least you can articulate the reason why.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 04:43 PM (GQ8sn)

481 479 Jolly Roger,

um we retaliated against 9/11 and elect GOP leaders...

fuck spielberg.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:43 PM (LRFds)

482 "Space Truckers don't get into Space Trucking for Love of Space Trucking. It's a job. They want to get paid."

Not so, Ace, it's a job you learn to love.

Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus, Space Trucker at November 15, 2012 04:44 PM (+inic)

483
The setting permits hotheads, mercenaries, goons, and Space Hookers.

ummm space hookers

Posted by: Dark Helmet at November 15, 2012 04:44 PM (AW9md)

484 Munich was the straw.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:40 PM (LRFds)


And it never should have been remade. The original, Sword of Gideon, was quite good.

For mossad movies, I still love Little Drummer Girl the best. Great, great, great movie! So great you don't even mind the sappy end. You can just turn it off when there's one minute left and it's just about perfect.

For American anti-terror movies, The Assignment was pretty awesome.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 04:45 PM (X3lox)

485 468 Apocolypto is a film that makes me sit back and say "Fuck. Maybe the Conquistadores weren't so bad after all."

---------

I was enjoying Apocalypto until he escapes during an eclipse and, that night, he and his wife have a long-distance meaningful moment staring into the full moon and thinking of each other.

Had a similar problem with Van Helsing. Seemed like they had a full moon every two or three days.

Posted by: Citizen Anachronda at November 15, 2012 04:45 PM (IrbU4)

486

Deep Impact was better than Armageddon?
Are you kidding me?

Deep Impact = "Government will save us."
Armageddon = "Free Enterprise saves the world."

Deep Impact....showed how the Govt gets to pick 'Who Survives'.
You liked that?

Armageddon...showed how in the end, Govt needed Free Enterprisers to get the job done.

Posted by: wheatie at November 15, 2012 04:45 PM (ICEh3)

487 484 TPOP,

Sword of Gideon is how we should have ran the response.

Terrorize terror.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:46 PM (LRFds)

488 EC, I find the whole point of that autodoc stupid. Even letting Vickers live in the life-pod. What kind of message is that sending to the rest of the crew. 'Oh I think this is a suicide mission, I know I am supposed to lead you, but I am going to stay in the lifeboat to save myself.' *thud*

The autodoc exits really for only one purpose. So Shaw can have a struggle to remove the fledgling Elder god. Nothing else.

I wish the CGI Elder god had eaten Ridley Scott and everyone else involved in this movie.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 04:47 PM (5CDzH)

489 stephen, that stuff about mining colonies wasn't in the movie. I'm reviewing the movie; I haven't read a script (which wasn't shot).

Also, let me just make this clear. Although I'm speaking of Phases, and they come in the order I say, Institutional then Commercial, I erred in calling them that. I should have called them Milleux.

Star Trek, as some note, does have a Commercial thing going on in the dark corners. But the ship itself is Institutional Millieux.

One might have a different series with Harry Mudd. But the actual series is Institutional.

Point is, even if you're right that in a script which wasn't shot it's noted that space industry has preceded to the Commercial Phase, the Prometheus itself is still Institutional (just as there might be a Commercial space industry in ST, but the Enterprise is plainly institutional).

The deck in Prometheus should not be stacked with Jokers.

If ANOTHER movie was set on one of these mining colonies you're talking about, and we're talking about laborers hired to do dangerous, dirty work, for a lot of money, for just a couple of years, and everyone hates it while they're actually doing this very dangerous job... I could expect some Jokers there, because it's hard to find people willing to do the job, and you have to take what you can get, and of course everyone is there for the money.

But this is a movie about a very expensive exploratory ship filled with scientists and such.

You can certainly find some people without mohawks or psychologically unsuitability for spaceflight.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 04:47 PM (LCRYB)

490 It could have been worse.

It could have had Jar Jar Binks on the planet.

Posted by: Socratease at November 15, 2012 04:47 PM (iVBDH)

491 486 Wheatie,

No Deep Impact's Message was "government won't save you."

Trust me I got the message.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:47 PM (LRFds)

492 God, I needed that! But you could have saved 1,697 words by saying: Prometheus sucked balls!

Posted by: RMOccidental at November 15, 2012 04:47 PM (1c06Z)

493 467

Yeah it had a lot of stuff that could be considered anti-American.

However some of what was shown did/does happen in war. It's just not specific to America but to war and the conditions that can/do occur because of the violence, fear, anger and loss.

I forgot to mention that the reason for the cockamamy premise of SPR was so Hanks could show how stupid the military was and how such a good guy could get killed for such a stupid and wasteful order from HQ.

You'll notice how they made a point to trace this order all the way from the clean offices in Washington from a bunch of old white men in uniforms down through the chain of command to the grunt in the field.

I'm surprised they was surprised they didn't have a Sgt leading that squad but I guess Hanks wanted to play "introspective, intellectual trapped in a situation he hates but will do his duty regardless of how stupid he knows it to be".

Can't have an intellectual Sgt. now can we?

Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 04:48 PM (SP4jC)

494 Ace, I have seen lots of scary movies where there is a "springloaded cat" or equivalent. Ridley Scott definitely didn't invent this.

The director wants to give a scare to keep the tension up, but not to kill off a character yet; or sometimes the director pulls the classic judo: something moves OH NO WHAT IS IT oh it's just the cat, and then while the character breathes a sigh of relief, suddenly Jason whacks her with a machete. Sometimes it is a cat, sometimes it is another character, sometimes it is just an inanimate object (a door blows open or whatever).

I remember one bad horror movie where a young woman character is in the shower, and someone wearing a rubber mask and holding a big knife sneaks into the bathroom. He pulls back the shower curtain, stabs with the knife... and it's a rubber knife, and it's her little brother (8 years old or whatever). I think that one was The Funhouse, a movie I do not recommend. ("Pay to get in... pray to get out!" That could be a comment on seeing The Funhouse in the theatre.)

Posted by: mr_jack at November 15, 2012 04:49 PM (TMG3G)

495 Actually Wheatie, Armageddon still depended upon two government furnished shuttles to get those idiots out into space. So your free enterprise saved the world thing goes out the window.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 04:49 PM (5CDzH)

496 493 AK,

Nope I guess not...I thought I argued with that nice Captain feller' about CO status pertty well.

//Alvin C York Sgt USA(retired)

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 04:50 PM (LRFds)

497 I dunno. I think Ridley Scott intended Prometheus as a kind of 124-minute Zen koan. At first you try to puzzle out the plot holes, illogical characterizations,and glaring contradictions.After that comes a sort of 'Oooom-like' drone in your head, because you've given up making any sense of it, followed by a profoundly gobsmacked, WTF silence. Then enlightenment.

Posted by: troyriser at November 15, 2012 04:50 PM (vtiE6)

498 cameron was trying for the Goth, Hooligan demographic.

Like a vicious NCIS?

Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 04:50 PM (SP4jC)

499 EC, I find the whole point of that autodoc stupid. Even letting Vickers
live in the life-pod. What kind of message is that sending to the rest
of the crew. 'Oh I think this is a suicide mission, I know I am supposed
to lead you, but I am going to stay in the lifeboat to save myself.'
*thud*


See, the rest of the crew doesn't know that, save for the captain who graciously allows her to escape in the lifeboat with a 2 year survival capacity. It would have been better to have it as the sickbay where it could treat the crew instead of a private ER for Weyland/Vickers.

And Shaw doesn't tell anyone she just birthed an alien shrimp? "Oh yeah, by the way guys, I just gave birth to a new lifeform. Yeah, it's in the autodoc. No, I didn't lock the door. Yeah, I guess it's still in there. Why do you ask? I just came from there, it has to be there still. Right?!?!"


Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 04:50 PM (GQ8sn)

500 On one of the movie threads, I want to discuss movies that you will
watch one time, and one time only, even when you enjoyed them, vs movies
you will watch over and over, and why.


One time only, Against the Wall, a German film about Germans of Turkish extraction, starring Sibel Kekilli, who played the funny whore Shae in Game of Thrones. Great movie but horrific and sad. The merciless abuse of the gorgeous, unique Kekilli is simply too much. It's a movie about people learning too late what matters and losing out on happiness forever. That strikes too close to home.

Multiple times, Bad Day at Black Rock, starring Spencer Tracy, about a one-armed World War II vet who stumbles into a murder mystery in a small town on his way to seeking oblivion. A perfect movie in every sense: dialog, editing, pacing, plot, characters... I've seen it thirty times, easily. Uplifting in a hard-nosed, pragmatic way, in that evil is confronted matter of factly, without drama and shouting. Bad guys are dispatched without a second thought.

Posted by: Llarry at November 15, 2012 04:52 PM (hzR9T)

501 It's such a horrible movie.

I hate it more because it's not the typical dumb movie. Most dumb movies know they're dumb. And people don't really like picking on dummies who are acutely aware of how dumb they are.

It's a deeply dumb movie -- also a cynical cash-in without any purpose to it except the cash-in -- that pretends it's smart, and it has Something To Say.

It doesn't. It's a dumb horror movie, actually dumber than most dumb horror movies.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 04:54 PM (LCRYB)

502 moar coneheads

Posted by: Dr. Varno at November 15, 2012 04:54 PM (H2KQ3)

503 EC, I know. Shaw was doing a marathon run while almost giving birth through ship sections that was far too numerous. And yeah she never said, "Hey people I just birthed a monster. I think we are safe, left it in the autodoc. And see good as new!" Then she does the Daffy Duck jumping up and down so we get to see her as two parts...

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 04:55 PM (5CDzH)

504 @501
Hollywood cynical cash in movie? Say whaaaat? If you could see me, I've got full shocked face.

I'm just glad Hollywood doesn't prey on our nostalgia for good movies with absolute crap remakes, prequels, and sequels (I am fucking looking strait at you Red Dawn. Don't you even think I don't remember you out there.)

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 04:57 PM (t06LC)

505
Han, I am your father.

Posted by: Harry Mudd at November 15, 2012 04:57 PM (H2KQ3)

506 >> It's a deeply dumb movie -- also a cynical cash-in without any purpose
to it except the cash-in -- that pretends it's smart, and it has
Something To Say.


Worse. It has Something To Say, and it intends to inflict a sequel on you to Say it.

Posted by: Andy at November 15, 2012 04:58 PM (5Rurq)

507 This is weird timing. I saw Prometheus for the first time last night when I rented it via video-on-demand. I just sat down to re-watch as the opening credits went by I check a couple websites and saw this article. Immediately after seeing the movie, I thought it was just OK, but as time passed and the more I think about it the less I like it.

The first twenty-five minutes or so feel like significant scenes containing important background and plot information were cut out in editing, so we could get the characters in space as soon as possible. First, after a montage of pretty scenery, we watch Dr. Manhattan's buffed brother commit suicide, then we see a minute long scene at an archaeological site. Then the movie jarringly shifts and we're on a spaceship watching an android preparing for the next Harlem Globetrotters tryouts. We finally get to an expository dialog scene, which should help make sense of what we just saw, but it doesn't. We're told that they're off to meet the “engineers” who the protagonist believes “engineered us.” When told her conclusion-jumping hypotheses is bullshit and she's asked for the evidence, she replies that she doesn’t have any evidence to back up the reason for sending this team on a trillion-dollar mission and wasting what would be, if things were going to go without a hitch, about five years of everyone's lives in cryogenic-sleep, but she has a good come back, which is “But it's what I choose to believe.”

If they would have padded the beginning a bit more with some information-doling-out dialog, especially something explaining why they thought the Engineers made us, the movie would have started a lot stronger.

Posted by: Thulsa Doom at November 15, 2012 04:59 PM (yEPg5)

508 The thing that really lingers for me is just how deadly dull Prometheus is. It starts strong, but you realize very quickly that something has gone fundamentally wrong.

Biggest disappointment of the year.

Posted by: Kensington at November 15, 2012 04:59 PM (znT2j)

509 Darth Vader, "I sense a great disturbance in the Force. Something I have never felt before."

Intercom, "Governor Tarkin, cell block One One Three Eight is being over run by chirping little furry things."

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 04:59 PM (5CDzH)

510 Oh god that was another seriously dumb part of the movie. When they did a DNA scan of the dead alien. Compared it to human DNA. And got a 100% match.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 05:01 PM (5CDzH)

511 The whole last 45 minutes is People Shouting The Plot At Each Other, and I don't even mean like the backstory, I mean they're shouting out What The New Mission For This Ten Minute Section of the Movie is.

This is a problem. In any good movie with a smoothly moving plot, characters don't have to Shout New Mission Objectives to each other, because the audience member knows what they have to do -- it's clear. The situation is such that it's clear what the characters must do, and it's clear to the audience. Everyone knows what must be done.

In a movie where characters have to Shout New Mission Objectives To Each Other, obviously the situation is NOT clear so that there is a clear objective. The audience has to be told what people will now be doing.

The whole last 45 minutes is: "Now you take the ship here" and "I'm going to see the Space Gods" and all these things which... I don't want to say they make NO sense, per se. It's just random though.

A good script, in its final act, has a pretty obvious Objective. In the final act, the characters should intuitively know what has to be done, and so should the audience.

They shouldn't be scrambling up random plans and then changing their minds and all this other crap, shouting plot bits.

That's called "covering with a line of dialogue." When you need a character to do something that either makes no sense or at least isn't transparently a good idea, writers attempt to "cover it with a line of dialogue" and just have someone announce their new plan so abruptly that the audience doesn't have time to question it.

That's never good practice, and it's a bad sign when you have three or four such coverings-by-dialogue in the last 30 minutes of your movie.

When people talk about the characters not having clear motivation or doing things that don't make sense, this is what they mean. Early on in a movie you can Explain Through Exposition a character's early actions, because at that point, the audience understands it needs some exposition to explain things, and it needs some help in getting a grasp on the character.

But in the last 30 minutes? There should be no exposition. The whole rest of the movie was exposition for the final act. If you're now interrupting the final act to have characters shout exposition at each other, that's because your movie is very unclear as to what it's about. If the movie were clear on what it's about, the characters wouldn't be trying to make sense of it in the closing minutes.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 05:02 PM (LCRYB)

512 And don't even get me started on the asininity of Ridley Scott insisting that this isn't necessarily a prequel to ALIEN.

Right there you've got a perfect example of how these guys don't live in the same reality the rest of us do. He thinks he can say that, and everyone else will just doubt what they're seeing with their own eyes.

Posted by: Kensington at November 15, 2012 05:02 PM (znT2j)

513 When a TV show or movie is insanely popular, there
are usually some non-retarded reasons why it's popular. And it's
probably not because everybody but you is a fucking retard who is too
stupid to know they are watching total shit.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 03:57 PM (ZPrif)
I understand your point and agree with it - but I say yes and no to this. There are plenty of movies that make tons of money that are total crap. Playing to the lowest common denominator (i.e., the least intelligent amongst us), is typical. However, that does not mean that all movies that make money are garbage, or even that movies with overt liberal preaching and stupid plots can't have some kind of technical expertise.In other words, it is perfectly possible for a movie to make tons of money because people are stupid. I'm not saying Avatar falls into this category, just that it is possible and happens often.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at November 15, 2012 05:03 PM (sOx93)

514 I watched Idiocracy again the other day and realized that it's not a comedy, it's a documentary.

Posted by: Minuteman at November 15, 2012 05:05 PM (1Rw2p)

515 Ace, the reason for the last stage shouting match in Prometheus might be reality finally set in for Ridley Scott. As in they made the first part of the movie to a boutique artsy crowd - the alien committing suicide and David watching Lawrence of Arabia probably went over most people's heads. So for the last bit they went full retard and decided to explain everything by clubbing the audience. Or the scriptwriter is such a hack, this is how he normally writes.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 05:06 PM (5CDzH)

516
491 486 Wheatie,

No Deep Impact's Message was "government won't save you."

Trust me I got the message.

-----------

It was an all-government endeavor, throughout the whole movie.
The only non-government characters were a kid with a telescope...and a News Babe.

Deep Impact ended with a scene showing how the Govt was still in place, in control of everything.

Deep Impact was a tribute to Liberal Themes.

Posted by: wheatie at November 15, 2012 05:06 PM (ICEh3)

517
I haven't seen this movie. People I know who have seen this movie didn't like it. I see why they didn't like it.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at November 15, 2012 05:07 PM (1hM1d)

518 467 Lllarry,
You got that too?
Glad I'm not alone it was the first "fuck you" that registered from Spielberg to me.
Munich was the straw.


I can't even count the ways Saving Private Ryan was anti-American.

How about the Bible-verse quoting sniper with his magic '03 Springfield that never needs reloading? Or when the wall falls down, revealing Germans who don't fire, it's Ted Danson who mows them all down?

Or someone shooting the unarmed German tanker in the face as he emerges bloody and defeated from his Tiger? Or the number of times Americans shot fleeing Germans in the back?

Notice how the Americans always killed everyone they shot, never wounding them? We never saw Americans rendering aid to Germans. D-Day footage is full of American corpsmen treating wounded Germans.

When the American flamethrower operator sprays the bunker at the beginning and the flaming Germans jump out (bullshit, because a portable flamethrower doesn't spray enough oil to completely engulf several people head to toe), someone yells, "Don't shoot 'em! Let 'em burn!"

This is how Spielberg actually sees his countrymen.

And don't forget that Tom Hanks said that the war in Europe was justified but the war in the Pacific was fought only because we want to exterminate the Japanese for racial reasons. He'd apparently never heard of something called Pearl Harbor.

Hanks is one of the few actors whose work I avoid. He's now a pitiful, fat, hate-filled, watery-eyed alcoholic who doesn't have the moral courage to give up his massive wealth, so he assuages his shallow guilt by smearing men a hundred thousand times better than he is.

He thinks that play-acting at being a soldier makes him brave and honorable.

Posted by: Llarry at November 15, 2012 05:07 PM (hzR9T)

519 Oh hey, we've traveled for years.lets just takes our helmets off within the first few minutes on an alien world. Morons.

Posted by: AE at November 15, 2012 05:08 PM (X+aDc)

520
495Actually Wheatie, Armageddon still depended upon two government furnished shuttles to get those idiots out into space. So your free enterprise saved the world thing goes out the window.

----------

Yeah...but those were two shuttles that would've been useless if Private Enterprise Drilling Experts had not been brought in, to help modify the designs of the equipment...and utilize them.

And the govt. people wanted to pull the plug on the operation when the going got tough.

Posted by: wheatie at November 15, 2012 05:10 PM (ICEh3)

521 One problem with the ending is that it can't make up its mind if its a Desperate Escape From Danger/The Strongest Human Drive Is For Survival movie, or a Science Is Wonderful/The Strongest Human Drive Is To Discover movie.

Note that these two movie types pull in different directions. In the former, you flee the unknown; in the latter, you run to it.

Because Scott could not decide between them, he just chose... BOTH. That's why we have this nonsensical final plan where the girl says, "You all escape, this is far too dangerous, but kind of keep the ship near the ground so I can rendezvous with you, because first I have to see the Space gods."

One thing undermines the other. If you're still trying to see the Space Gods (who, by the way, are trying to kill you) then obviously it's NOT THAT DANGEROUS. If it were truly dangerous, you'd prioritize "survival" above "discovery" and bug out.

So the movie, confused, just tries to have it both ways, to make it both things at the same time, with a character giving conflicting orders with conflicting objectives ("Let's leave/Let's explore some more").

And the audience is like, Huh? What's going on?

Well, what's going on is that the filmmaker apparently can't decide on a resolution so he's just splicing two completely different finales together.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 05:11 PM (LCRYB)

522 490 It could have been worse. It could have had Jar Jar Binks on the planet.

---------

Yes, well, now that Disney owns Star Wars, we can look forward to Jar Jar Story in 3D!!

Posted by: Citizen Anachronda at November 15, 2012 05:11 PM (NmR1a)

523 One of the more esoteric scientific goofs in Prometheus concerns them dating the aliens to 2,000 years ago. They are on an alien planet and yet they have instruments who can determine the age of artifacts. C-14 is calibrated for the Earth and even C-14 is not reliable as a strong solar flare that struck the central US proved, it reset C-14 clocks so artifacts became younger.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 05:12 PM (5CDzH)

524 >>>One of the more esoteric scientific goofs in Prometheus concerns them dating the aliens to 2,000 years ago. They are on an alien planet and yet they have instruments who can determine the age of artifacts.

I immediately wondered about that, but wasn't sure if the C14 fraction was some kind of stellar constant.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 05:13 PM (LCRYB)

525 I like bad sci-fi movies, so I kind of liked Prometheus. My brother tried watching it and turned it off early into it. Said it was too boring and he didn't like anyone on the ship.

Yet even as a bad sci-fi, it fails. Bad sci-fi's are fun because you often see ridiculous scenes, absurd scenarios, really bad acting that makes you laugh. In Prometheus, the acting wasn't sci-fi bad. It was just lacking and many of them did their parts adequately. IOW, script was lacking. The only part that was bad sci-fi worthy was the ending where she got sorta stuck under the ship. That's the only bad sci-fi worthy thing I saw and because it was at the end, I thought it was ok. But yeah, the rest was lackluster, even on the bad sci-fi end of the spectrum.

Posted by: MrX at November 15, 2012 05:14 PM (PxmNZ)

526 And it's probably not because everybody but you is a fucking retard who is too stupid to know they are watching total shit.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 15, 2012 03:57 PM (ZPrif)I


Maybe you can explain the Franz Kline piece that just sold at Christie's for over $40 million ... because to me it looks like a ridiculously retarded piece of shit. I wouldn't even hang it on my wall if it were free, let alone the fact that a bnunch of total idiots are willing to spend millions of dollars to have it around.

I'm sure you can explain the technical brilliance that went into its seemingly retarded construction.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 15, 2012 05:16 PM (X3lox)

527 Ace, you need to do a review of Xanadu.

Posted by: Minuteman at November 15, 2012 05:16 PM (1Rw2p)

528 I also found it very smug.

They were very smug about the "bravery" and "inventiveness" of their conceit that the Universe is Hostile and Hates Humanity and even the Space Gods Want To Kill You.

Isn't that a novel idea?

Sure... except for a thousand Cthulhu Mythos stories (and I do mean a thousand -- it's a flourishing tradition).

I don't *mind* the idea, because I like Cthulhu type stories and they all rip off each other.

I just detected this self-satisfaction from the movie, like they'd Really Blown My Mind And Shit.

I read all this before. Like thirty five times. Dates back to the 20s.

I like the idea... just don't like you getting all proud that you Thought Of It.

'Cuz you didn't. The writer was probably an RPG geek who played Call of Cthulhu.



Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 05:17 PM (LCRYB)

529 523 One of the more esoteric scientific goofs in Prometheus concerns them dating the aliens to 2,000 years ago. They are on an alien planet and yet they have instruments who can determine the age of artifacts. C-14 is calibrated for the Earth and even C-14 is not reliable as a strong solar flare that struck the central US proved, it reset C-14 clocks so artifacts became younger.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 05:12 PM (5CDzH)


Yeah that jarred me as well. But in theory you *could* carbon date on any planet so long as you knew the relative proportion of C-14 in the environment, that it was stable, and that lifeforms absorbed it only while alive.


Posted by: Mćtenloch at November 15, 2012 05:18 PM (pAlYe)

530 Have you watched the deleted scenes that can be found on the Blu-ray?

Every single one would have made it a better movie.

Posted by: mycherrysmores at November 15, 2012 05:19 PM (qLxQ4)

531 There are 2 other Phases that you may want to consider.

3) -- Decay Phase (aka Obama 2nd Term)
The majority of the commercial phase ships have been nationalized and given one last paint job making them look like spiffy institutional phase ships. The few remaining independent crews become scruffier and scruffier.
If you accept episodes 1 - 3 as canon, then this is were Star Wars is

4) -- Galactic Dark Age (aka Obama + 10 years)
All economic activity grinds to a halt. Ships wear out as spare parts can't be make. New ships ... dream on, not with galatic-osha.
Small polities spring up as ship captains become the new feudal overlords
The barbarians camp among the ashes, eventually rediscovering stellar travel and the cycle stars all over again.


Posted by: Mark E at November 15, 2012 05:21 PM (Ri31I)

532 >>>But in theory you *could* carbon date on any planet so long as you knew the relative proportion of C-14 in the environment, that it was stable, and that lifeforms absorbed it only while alive.


right, you'd just need to calibrate it for local conditions, right?

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 05:22 PM (LCRYB)

533 The decay of C-14 is constant. At same time comparison to tree rings are used to correlate. Or if the strata are known by the types of pottery, the C-14 reading can be cross-checked.

But digs in North America were showing via C-14 dating sites that were younger than the sites in South America. You can imagine how that bit of data upset the Bering Sea landbridge migration concept. And now I have lost the link to the research paper that originally talked about the flare burst that occurred about 12,000 years ago that reset the clocks.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 05:23 PM (5CDzH)

534 markE:

Right! Yeah, those are definitely Real Things in fiction, but I don't think of them as sci-fi, because they're usually atypical sci-fi. The galactic Dark Age story is usually some kind of post-apocalyptic story with a fantasy-magic-via-technology feel to it.

I get your Obama thing too.

The thing I really find mindblowing is stories that speak of "cycles" of 100,000 years or more. Where history is so long, and knowledge so extensive, that we count the years by aeons, where no one bats an eye about an empire that crumbled, or a planet which was destroyed (with 50 billion lives), because all of that happens thirty times every cycle.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 05:25 PM (LCRYB)

535 Well, that's 5 minutes of my life I'll never get back.

Posted by: Hussein in the Membrane at November 15, 2012 05:25 PM (EX+sq)

536 Not one damn bit of the movie made any sense. It was remarkable. I think the wrong Scott threw himself off the bridge.

Posted by: Brian at November 15, 2012 05:25 PM (Hd5n8)

537 right, you'd just need to calibrate it for local conditions, right?
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 05:22 PM (LCRYB)


Yup. There are other dating methods using various isotopes and other techniques but they all ultimately depend on assumptions about the local conditions.

Posted by: Mćtenloch at November 15, 2012 05:26 PM (pAlYe)

538 >>>The decay of C-14 is constant. At same time comparison to tree rings are used to correlate. Or if the strata are known by the types of pottery, the C-14 reading can be cross-checked.

the decay is constant, but is the starting proportion of C12 to C14? Can a star churn them out in different proportions?

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 05:26 PM (LCRYB)

539 I love this site for this kind of stuff

Posted by: SEANIEP at November 15, 2012 05:28 PM (HNXCG)

540 Well C-14 has a relatively short half-life (geologically speaking) so all the C-14 on earth is from radiation transforming some other atom like say C-12 into it.

Posted by: Mćtenloch at November 15, 2012 05:28 PM (pAlYe)

541 that's what I meant by "Stellar Constant." Do stars only produce them in the same proportion?

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 05:29 PM (LCRYB)

542 LAST!

Posted by: Guy who says "Last!" at November 15, 2012 05:29 PM (RuUvx)

543 >>>Well C-14 has a relatively short (geologically speaking) half-life so all the C-14 on earth is from radiation transforming some other atom - say C-12 - into it.

c14 decays into c12 not the other way around, surely. You can't decay into having more neutrons.

Either something else like iron is decaying into C14 (and some other atom) or else a star pumps out a certain amount of c14.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 05:30 PM (LCRYB)

544 I hated it, and now prefer to pretend it wasn't ever made, so that some one can start over without the f'd up cannon.

I will add I disliked the special effects, compared to Alien's. The gratuitous, pointless flash, the overdone-ness...incongruity with the future world of Alien, the less effective horror, the ruining of the space jockey mystery....have been detailed elsewhere. I guess the animatronic heads were, cool, and better, but even the alien head explosion (and what preveded it) made no real sense.

Hated, hated, hated it. Saw Alien about a year after its original release when I was a young thing and I've never been quite the same. This movie can just get black goo pooredon it and go away forever.

Posted by: SarahW at November 15, 2012 05:32 PM (LYwCh)

545 I think the lesson of the movie is: "Humans are so bad that our creator would go to great length to make sure that every last oneof us is exterminated."Seems like leftist's wet dream.

Posted by: Brian at November 15, 2012 05:32 PM (Hd5n8)

546 okay, here's where C14 comes from:

The primary natural source of carbon-14 on Earth is cosmic ray action upon nitrogen in the atmosphere, and it is therefore a cosmogenic nuclide. However, open-air nuclear testing between 1955-1980 contributed to this pool.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 05:33 PM (LCRYB)

547 One problem with the ending is that it can't make up its mind if its a Desperate Escape From Danger/The Strongest Human Drive Is For Survival movie, or a Science Is Wonderful/The Strongest Human Drive Is To Discover movie.

I'm with those that think an expressly RevengeWillBeMine theme would have suited the very end better, but would have precluded a sequel to the prequel. Otherwise, yeah, take the ship back to Earth and warn everyone.

Also, Deep Impact was so much better written and acted I can't believe anyone can argue with me over it. Not to say that Armageddon wasn't fun or that I didn't enjoy it.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 05:34 PM (QupBk)

548 546 okay, here's where C14 comes from:
The primary natural source of carbon-14 on Earth is cosmic ray action upon nitrogen in the atmosphere, and it is therefore a cosmogenic nuclide. However, open-air nuclear testing between 1955-1980 contributed to this pool.
Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 05:33 PM (LCRYB)


Yep and the assumption is that the amount of cosmic rays is relatively constant so that there's a stable ratio of C-14/C-12 in the environment.

Posted by: Mćtenloch at November 15, 2012 05:37 PM (pAlYe)

549
Look, I did my best.

I tried to kill any many as I could.

They. Were. Just. To. Stupid. To. Live.

I wouldn't even pat me.

And these jerk-offs take off their helmets, on an unknown planet with lots of dead engineers and then want to pat me like I'm some kind of Labrador Retriever?

Seriously?

Anyway....I did my best...

My way I coulda wrapped up the whole thing 1 hour tops.

Posted by: Cobra-like Penisy Snake Worm Thing at November 15, 2012 05:38 PM (54vf8)

550 The more deeply I read about C14 measurements the less I trust it.
http://www.c14dating.com/agecalc.html
A CRA embraces the following recommended conventions:

1. a half-life of 5568 years;
2. the use of Oxalic acid I or II, or appropriate secondary radiocarbon standards (e.g. ANU sucrose) as the modern radiocarbon standard;
3. correction for sample isotopic fractionation (deltaC13) to a normalized or base value of -25.0 per mille relative to the ratio of C12/C13 in the carbonate standard VPDB (more on fractionation and deltaC13);
4. the use of 1950 AD as 0 BP, ie all C14 ages head back in time from 1950;
5. the assumption that all C14 reservoirs have remained constant through time.

Number 5 really gets me.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 05:41 PM (5CDzH)

551 You know, these movie review posts actually do go on for some time. Oh, and last.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 05:45 PM (t06LC)

552 Second to last?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 05:48 PM (5CDzH)

553 >>I'm with those that think an expressly RevengeWillBeMine theme would
have suited the very end better, but would have precluded a sequel to
the prequel.


Yeah, when the lone survivor was heading to the alien home plant, I hoped she was going there to carpet bomb the place with the biological weapons the aliens had created,

It's the only way to be sure.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 15, 2012 05:51 PM (b+jI9)

554 Hollywood is incapable of making a movie with intelligent people in it.

There are too many bone stupid people who must approve of the product while it is in production.

Good stuff gets made when they aren't watching ... and the sequels are always bad because the idiots always flock to rare successes and turn them into shit by injecting their stupid into it.

Posted by: Kristophr at November 15, 2012 05:57 PM (wYVte)

555 Nobody said "no" to Ridley.George Lucasall over again.

Posted by: Brian at November 15, 2012 05:59 PM (Hd5n8)

556 Hollywood is incapable of making a movie with intelligent people in it.

George Clooney is a raving leftist, but Up in the Air is just about flawless. Don't let people tell you it's an anti-capitalist movie; it's an anti-"job-as-identity" movie.

It's a cautionary tale about recognizing the important things in life.

Posted by: Llarry at November 15, 2012 06:06 PM (hzR9T)

557 I'm almost done watching the movie for the second time and I'm getting more and more annoyed with it.

One highlight that's really bothering me, which really ties in with the issue of characterization, is the biologist who sees a cobra-like alien acting all cobra-like, and starts acting like a little girl encountering a cute little kitty. It's like he totally forgot the reason why he and his new pal were lost was because they were cowards who freaked out upon seeing a unexplained pile of dead alien bodies. You think the first thing he would do is start considering the possibly they were the victims of space cobras.

One of this movie's major flaws is the multiple times people jump to conclusions without much evidence, but here he should have been hyper-vigilant and jumping to conclusions like crazy, assuming everything was dangerous.

Also, another annoying movie highlight that can be summed up in two words: space flute. Maybe if this was Lexx, it might work, but here it's just dumb.

Now whenever I watch the Alien movies, I'll think about how the creators of the xenomorphs were such avid flutist that they integrated flute riffs into the user interfaces of their computers.

Posted by: Thulsa Doom at November 15, 2012 06:22 PM (yEPg5)

558 Sweet. Mr Penis Cobra posted in this thread as I typing about him. You truly do the Lord's work, Mr PC.

Posted by: Thulsa Doom at November 15, 2012 06:27 PM (yEPg5)

559
The goofy cook in "Forbidden Planet"?

Earl Holliman = white man = going to Hell.

Just wanted to chime in here about that.

Posted by: Reader C.J. Burch writes..... at November 15, 2012 06:30 PM (RFeQD)

560 Me? I just stopped watching after 30 minutes and never thought of "Prometheus" until now.

Posted by: Jack at November 15, 2012 06:33 PM (wUFaM)

561 I remember a carbon dating goof in some shitty time-travel cop/criminal movie.

We carbon-dated the stolen gold, it was from the 1800s!

Posted by: fb at November 15, 2012 06:41 PM (JVEmw)

562 >>>One highlight that's really bothering me, which really ties in with the issue of characterization, is the biologist who sees a cobra-like alien acting all cobra-like, and starts acting like a little girl encountering a cute little kitty. It's like he totally forgot the reason why he and his new pal were lost was because they were cowards who freaked out upon seeing a unexplained pile of dead alien bodies. You think the first thing he would do is start considering the possibly they were the victims of space cobras.


Very funny, Thulsa.

I was also in stitches over that scene. Bear in mind, the human brain has a BUILT IN FEAR OF SNAKES and things that move like snakes rearing up to strike.

And so on this alien planet, he sees some things that look like *mutant* snakes, which rear up in a snake's I'ma-gonna-bite-you warding/aggression posture, and his first instinct is to pet it.

Really? Really?

If you were on earth and saw a *familiar* creature, a snake, doing that, you would draw back.

Now you're on an alien planet, whose entire population has been killed by an as-of-yet-unknown catastrophe (but it appears to be biological), and you see something even uglier and weirder than a snake rearing back to strike, and you try to pet it.

I started shouting at this part of the movie -- "Hey, there's a weird button over here! LET'S PUSH IT!"

Hey, it's a strange space creature! LET'S KICK IT AND SEE WHAT IT DOES!

Hey look, it's a weird space goop! LET'S STICK IT IN OUR MOUTHS!

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 06:48 PM (LCRYB)

563 562 Ace,

quite....Uncharted Waters New Horizons...barmaid asks of every creature you found..."did it bite you?"

Um no honey if I see a pteranadon I run like hell....

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 06:50 PM (LRFds)

564 Alien planet in which the entire population has been wiped out by an unknown disaster?

Or possibly an unknown pathogen?

Hm, let me take off my protective space helmet, breathe deeply this unknown alien atmosphere, and think about things a bit.

Mmm... pure H2O. Delicious.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 06:51 PM (LCRYB)

565 The movie had so many WTF??!! moments where characters do unrealistic crap that it lost me about 20 minutes in.

1. The biologist guy that wants to PET THE HOSTILE HISSING SNAKE-LIKE CREATURE.

2. The crew member who casually walks up to the geologist's body lying outside the craft and turns and says to another crew member "Hey come over here and look at this!"

Yeah, some guy who's been missing on a hostile alien planet just turns up outside the hatch and you're just gonna STROLL ON OUT THERE and stare dispassionately down at him.

3. When Charlie takes his helmet off after being inside the pyramid for 2 minutes. "Hey let's see if this atmosphere kills me or not! Wheeeee!"

That's just the top 3. I could keep going for about 10 more.

Posted by: drawandstrike at November 15, 2012 06:56 PM (uVLJc)

566 565 drawandstrike,

Yeah at some point you've watched enough stupid as Ogabe says...

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 06:58 PM (LRFds)

567 And for the pedantic and punctilious: This *ahem* "Review" was 2711 words and not just a mere measly 1700 words as incorrectly stated in the intro.

That includes the Title and the signature at the bottom.

Ah Ace, you've done it again.

Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 07:06 PM (SP4jC)

568 "Mmm... pure H2O. Delicious."

Well if they did that it would be sublimely stupid as that's f'n water.

You meant O2 or better yet would be N2, O2 and misc other gases.

Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 07:09 PM (SP4jC)

569 it's a joke from Amazon Women on the Moon.

Posted by: ace at November 15, 2012 07:12 PM (LCRYB)

570 I was sure you had a reason. I thought they actually said something as bad in the movie. No? Yay for them then. They got one right.

Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 07:15 PM (SP4jC)

571
My favorite W.T.F. was the foul mouthed unhappy geologist with a Mohawk. We are supposed to believe this guy havingjust mapped the ship's interior in 3D,can't find his way back to the Prometheus, despite being in contact with the Prometheus crewwho have the map right in front of them!
Please, get a high school science student to read the next script.

Posted by: BIll at November 15, 2012 07:17 PM (f/qE7)

572 Well okay then, Ace. I guess I won't be spending my holiday money on this one! LOL!

Posted by: and irresolute at November 15, 2012 07:19 PM (DBH1h)

573 Prometheus was a huge wasted opportunity like "I Robot" and "Atlas Shrugged".

Posted by: bill at November 15, 2012 07:20 PM (f/qE7)

574 I think the lesson of the movie is: "Humans are so bad that our creator would go to great length to make sure that every last one of us is exterminated."Seems like leftist's wet dream.
Posted by: Brian at November 15, 2012 05:32 PM (Hd5n

It's worse than that I'm afraid.

It's more; "Do not innovate. Do not show curiosity about the Universe. Do not explore. Especially do not explore the Universe. You'll only screw it up like you have the Earth and you'll get killed by all the bad things that can happen in the Universe if you go exploring.

Stay here on the nice cozy planet you evolved on. Where you belong. Until the race goes extinct and the rest of the world can breathe a sigh of relief and get back to living life the way it should've been.

Bad humans. BAD,BAD,BAD. See what happens when you explore? the Boogie man comes out and eats you.

The song sung by nannies for millennia.

Of course this flies in the face of the facts; that it's our curiosity that has led us to the pinnacle of the food chain, above so many more pedestrian occupants. But the earth goddess types don't want to hear or see that kind of shite. Ridley is an earth goddess worshiper.

Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 07:23 PM (SP4jC)

575 573 Bill,

Come on Bill how many people can sit through a 28 hour film?

On I, Robot I am very much in agreement.

It had as much to do with I, Robot as Obama does with george washington.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 07:23 PM (LRFds)

576 574 AK,

Yeah I watch Megadisasters! to see what the fuck to fear and avoid the left watches it for porn....

I remember first thinking in the middle of Season 1..."thank God we have a waning space program it sure would suck if that gamma ray burst had to zap two solar systems at once eh?"

ah well more important that ObamaFO lady gets a manicure than we have a true space program.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 07:26 PM (LRFds)

577
Another W.T.F....
I'm sure an alien race would design their starships to survive mid-air collisions followed by crash landings...largly intact! so the superstructure could roll around the ground like a giant donut. The money saved by not shooting such an implausible scene could have been spent on acogent script.

Posted by: bill at November 15, 2012 07:29 PM (f/qE7)

578 I'm gonna spend billions of my $ setting up a deep space exploration mission...........

......but none of the crew members will have met or worked with each other before they wake up in orbit around an alien planet.

That scene with the biologist & the mohawked ahole geologist was the first big WTF??!! scene in the film.

Because I suck at personnel management, I end up getting bludgeoned to death by the head of my faithful android manservant.

Who am I?

Posted by: drawandstrike at November 15, 2012 07:41 PM (uVLJc)

579 I'd like to see a movie about the race that was transporting the Alien eggs and crashed for the Nostromo to find.

Were they infecting the Unverse or were they taking these Aliens somewhere for some purpose and one got loose and crashed the ship? (that's the take away I got from the Playboy review of Geiger's art and the movie at the time it came out. And I only bought Playboy FOR those reviews and articles and clothes n' stuff).

Or was that what Prometheus is supposed to be about? Or Alien Engineers?

But not if Ridley directs. Or writes. or produces.

All anyone needs to know about Ridley Scott is that photo of him dressed in feathers and stuff somewhere I think it was New Guinea? Dancing with the tribesman with bones in their noses and/or nekkid.

That. Says. It. All.

Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 07:43 PM (SP4jC)

580 I would take this review more seriously if it didnt end when they landed on the planet.

Get back to me with the remaining 183,000 word portion and we can talk...

Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at November 15, 2012 07:46 PM (ovpNn)

581 578 drawandstrike,

John Denver

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 07:46 PM (LRFds)

582 "Very funny, Thulsa.

I was also in stitches over that scene. Bear in mind, the human brain has a BUILT IN FEAR OF SNAKES and things that move like snakes rearing up to strike. "

Thank you.

Though I'm a fan of our reptilian friends, I agree with you that phobias in general, and snake phobias in particular, are hardwired into our brains. With all this talk about carbon dating, I was feeling left out, but now I get to draw upon my psychology degree share some information that's all sceincey.

Despite what is the popularly held that phobias are caused by some bad experience, usually during childhood, phobias actually seem to be biologically based. First, people tend to have phobias of things that occur in nature and have been a threat for a long, long time, such as potentially dangerous animals, high places you can fall off of, bad social situations in which some ancient prehuman equivalent of a super-alpha silverback gorilla might pound your face into goo if you draw too much attention to yourself, etc.

But what's more telling is what people DON'T get phobias of, which is stuff that doesn't exist in nature. Think of all the times a kid will cut himself helping his mom chop vegetables to make dinner, or trying to escape from the various makeshift prisons, formed out rusty corrugated metal sidding, roadkill bones and Bowie knives, that are a common feature of the average moron's backyard. You don't hear about people getting knife phobias, though way more people have cut themselves with a knife than even seen a poisonous snake in modern America.

Cars are another example. Lots of people have been in car accidents but you never hear about someone who after an accident not only doesn't want to drive but the idea of touching a car now grosses him out. Additionally, with phobias you tend to see some transference to similar objects. In other words someone with a fear of snakes or spiders will tend to feel uncomfortable around rubber snakes or spiders or even penis-like space cobras. You can probably even chase them around the room rubber snake and spider toys, if you want to be a jerk. Try chasing your buddy, who was just in a fender bender, around the room with a Hotwheels car and he'll just look at you like you're an idiot.

Posted by: Thulsa Doom at November 15, 2012 07:50 PM (yEPg5)

583 Ace you have failed to grasp something very obvious. This movie is supposed to happen in our future, correct?Well, it wouldn't surprise me at all if this is the way people act in the future. After all, we have a crony-capitalist mega corporation, run by a future Soros,that builds this ship and then has to staff it according to the affirmative action requirements of the day.
I would say that the surly, off balanced geologist could not be excluded because by the time of this trip he's 1: a minority (white), 2: a protected class (bi-polar antisocial borderline personality) while still being 3: one of the best in his field. His motivation for money is understandable since he is probably being given a substantial tax break for undergoing such a dangerous mission in a society where he would otherwise be taxed 75% of his gross income to help adequately "spread the wealth around."
As for everyone ignoring the captain, come on, that's an easy one. In our Obamunist future utopia there really are no "leaders." Sure, the captain can give suggestions but in this enlightened society everyone's opinion carries the same weight no matter their expertise. So the hyper excited passenger would definately be able to rustle together a exploratory mission just before dark on a never explored and probably highly dangerous world without anyone batting an eye.
When it comes to Charlize being the ice queen whore, this is probably the epitome of the Independent woman of the future. Hell, with the way sex has been trivialized in our time I'm actually surprised it took her that long to jump in the sack with someone in this advanced and socially liberal world.
See Ace, you're looking at Prometheus all wrong. If you take off your conservative blinders and instead focus on it through the liberal lenses it is meant to be seen throughthe movie is a spot on and very realistic microcosm of our future travels to the stars.
No wonder The Builders wanted to destroy us so badly.

Posted by: StreetDoc67 at November 15, 2012 08:12 PM (09ANu)

584
RedLetterMedia needs to do a proper review on how bad this movie is. There are so many stupid things in this movie that it would very easy for them to make a review longer than the actual movie and 100x more enjoyable. (Hell RedLetterMedia has done the impossible in myopinion and completely justified the existance of the shitty Star Wars prequels. I have watched thosereviews more than I have watched theprequels and I still laugh my ass off everytime I watchthem.) Anyway, but to Prometheus: almost every single scene in this film is complete stupidity. How about the scene where they are going to "trick" the decapitated alien head into thinking it was freaking ALIVE but sticking an electrode into it? Yes, my friends, the female scientist actually said "maybe we can trick it into thinking its alive." Um.... its been dead for 2,000 years lady!

Posted by: Drakkir at November 15, 2012 08:37 PM (bkeuv)

585 Llarry:

"Up in the Air " was screenwritten by a Canadian, and mostly filmed in the midwest.

I credit the distance from Hollywood with it's intelligence and success.

Posted by: Kristophr at November 15, 2012 08:56 PM (wYVte)

586 Prometheus sucked.

Posted by: butternut at November 15, 2012 09:04 PM (nbYoV)

587
579 ....

All anyone needs to know about Ridley Scott is
that photo of him dressed in feathers and stuff somewhere I think it was
New Guinea? Dancing with the tribesman with bones in their noses and/or
nekkid.That. Says. It. All.

Posted by: AshKente at November 15, 2012 07:43 PM (SP4jC)

Cameron did the same thing (see http://tinyurl.com/cskp7zv), which is also why the script for Avatar is so bad. Both are Gaia worshipping directors who use the latest technology to bash capitalism and Western civilization.

Posted by: Worf, the Wonder Klingon at November 15, 2012 10:06 PM (E9Z5P)

588 Man Ace. You write really well. I laughed out loud at "All Wet". I'm going to start calling people "All Wet".

Posted by: brando at November 15, 2012 10:15 PM (IPGju)

589 I stand here before you today to defend the movie Xanadu. I come not to bury it but to praise it.

Xanadu was conceived as a musical for the 80's. If you accept it as a musical for the 80's I argue that it succeeds.

The principal complaint about it is that the script is really lightweight. This is far from the worst complaint one can have about a movie, and strangely this complaint is never leveled against the classic musicals. An American in Paris has a pretty lightweight plot, but nobody seems to mind.

Xanadu also scores points with me for having Gene Kelly. I'm a Gene Kelly fan, and I loved every scene with him in it. My favorite scene in the movie is where the young artist guy (played by Michael Beck) and the retired guy (Gene Kelly) are looking at a shuttered warehouse building and imagining what they could do with it. Retired guy imagines a club straight out of the 40's with a big band (and Olivia Newton-John singing in front of the band); artist guy says "this is the 80's" and imagines a hard rock band (played for the movie by The Tubes!). Their ideas wind up cross-pollinating and the way it was shown onscreen is wonderful, if you have any appetite at all for musicals.

I really don't understand the anti-Xanadu hate. I think it just became A Thing, with a positive feedback loop where people hated on it because people were hating on it. It pretty much killed the career of Michael Beck, which is unfair and undeserved (his role was unchallenging, but he did a perfectly adequate job).

So if you like the music of Electric Light Orchestra and/or the music of Olivia Newton-John, and you have any tolerance at all for musicals, give it a watch.

P.S. There is a successful Broadway musical based on the movie, where they changed the plot to make fun of the original movie, but they kept the music because the music is good. The soundtrack album was also a big success. What I'm trying to tell you is, the music is good.

Posted by: mr_jack at November 15, 2012 10:25 PM (TMG3G)

590 Screw whatever anyone else says, Ace. I want more of this kind of thing. I think I'm done obsessing over politics for a couple months.

More movie reviews, please. The longer, the better.

Posted by: RJ at November 15, 2012 11:35 PM (QTVh2)

591 I was 90 years old when I started reading this review.

Posted by: Teen-aged Benjamin Button at November 16, 2012 01:07 AM (riIMi)

592 591
I was 90 years old when I started reading this review.


Posted by: Teen-aged Benjamin Button at November 16, 2012 01:07 AM (riIMi)

Funny, I was a precocious 10 yr. old when I started reading this review. Now I'm in retirement.



Posted by: Methuselah at November 16, 2012 02:12 AM (E9Z5P)

593 Prometheus was written for young people so logic is not a concern. It is a reflection of the new normal, aka stupid, ignorant, shallow and selfish. The Kiddies loved it while I hated it. A reflection of an Obama/EU world hundreds of years from now, assuming that is even possible, but I just said that logic is not a concern, so there. Calling it a bad film is stating the obvious. Everything is bad these days. But the product placement was a huge success so Prometheus is a smash hit. You are just old Ace.

Posted by: TrueNorthist at November 16, 2012 10:41 AM (3Aixx)

594 ...ok, Ace, your work is done here. For the year. That was brilliant, the entire piece. Was it derivative? How the heck do I know. Do you honestly expect me to read every analysis of SF by every bubble-headded university professor slash columnist out there? You sir, have exceeded my intellectual quota and I salute you. Now, let's talk a bit about the mandatory IQ point redistribution process and how much I will need.

Posted by: DM at November 16, 2012 10:51 AM (Z1NUd)

595 Ok the setting for the movie isthe year2093 and the engineers on the planet were killed off 2000 yearsbefore while planning the extermination of the humans they had created on earth. What happened 2000 years before 2093 that might have caused them to want to destroy every last human that they created? Let me think .... perhaps the birth of Christianity?
Ridley Scott perhaps sending a message about whathe thinks of Christianity?

Posted by: Brian at November 16, 2012 11:10 AM (Hd5n8)

596 Up there at # 290, mr_jack has the right of it, I think -

This is why I do not pay much attention to most supposed-SF produced today, including virtually all allegedly-SF films: If the same story - aside from minor touches - can be run through, with the same/similar characters and all the same plot-features, minus the particular scientific setting or base - the starting-point "what if?..." premise(s) - then...it ain't SF, people, no matter how "well made" or "dramatic" or "internally-logical" it may otherwise be (or not be).

Without that basic, ground-assumption setting of "what if the scientific situation/background/setting was as follows?", as an inherent, necessary element - the end result may be a nifty story (or not) - it's simply not Science Fiction.

Some such are, in fact, pretty good stories/films. But, for my money, they're a lot less interesting than genuine SF - which, admittedly, may be a bit tougher to make a film of, since it needs a different sort of internal integrity of setting and theme, and is tougher to "sell" to an audience, as they must grasp that different setting/theme as it drives the story - which, even with all of the "special effects" stuff currently available, is a much rarer production.

Unlike, say, The Lord Of The Rings, for instance - where the very nature of the entire physical system differs from ours - films like Prometheus are "space opera"; Prometheus, in particular, sounds sort of like the same story line as King Kong, with some different twists/quirks - which, aside from the particular "gimmick" of the Giant Ape, is/was not really much different from several dozen other "SF" films/stories which were not really SF at all, but essentially horror fiction of variations on the "dreaded nemesis" variety.

Bottom line: If the "different" science does not drive the story - is not essential to its theme and overall action - it's not SF...and it should not be accepted as such.

Posted by: J.S.Bridges at November 17, 2012 01:17 AM (eJqqQ)

597 That was fun. Thanks Ace! (Christ, I didn't think I was gonna be comment 597 though.)

Posted by: California Emigrant at November 18, 2012 03:14 AM (PtWOt)

598 Solo can fake and charm with the best of 'em... As mentioned earlier, he was an Imperial Navy TIE fighter pilot. He got in despite his orphan conman background thanks to expensive cornea-restructuring surgery that gave him a fake ID. He looked pretty snappy in his uniform and flew better than the rest, but his individuality, unorthodox methods (flying THROUGH a circular landmark instead of over it) and personal moral code were at odds with the Imperial Machine.

Posted by: Scott at November 19, 2012 05:02 AM (A6Fz0)






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