Analysis: US To Become Energy Independent By 2035

A few assumptions here: That Obama's strange policy choices do not forestall this possibility, that shale-oil extraction technology matures to make it cheap enough to be viable, and that we engineer a way to bring millions of gallons of water to the shale (or the shale to millions of gallons of water).

The process is very water-intensive. One report I saw noted that a large-scale shale-oil operation in the mountain states would almost drain all the water from farms and Denver. Just spitballing here, but I got the sense a seriously large-scale operation would have to involve ocean water being pumped in via massive transcontinental pipes and desalinated.

But these are simply problems, and when something's important, and when people can make money from it (will people still be making money on investments ten years from now?), problems are overcome.

The International Energy Agency thinks the problems will be solved.

The latest reminder of this comes from a surprising source: the annual World Energy Outlook report from the Paris-based International Energy Agency (IEA). In the report, the agency comes to the startling conclusion that, by 2020, the United States will displace Saudi Arabia — albeit temporarily — as the world’s largest oil producer. Even more astonishing, the United States is projected by 2035 to be virtually self-sufficient in oil, with modest imports coming from secure suppliers.

...

No more. Geology and technology, it seems, are destiny.

The same technology that has resulted in a vast expansion of natural gas production — so-called “shale gas” — is doing the same for oil. “Fracking” (shooting highly pressurized water into oil formations) and horizontal drilling are steadily increasing production. Meanwhile, the IEA expects that much-improved vehicle fuel efficiency will slowly reduce U.S. oil demand. The Obama administration has adopted rules raising fuel efficiency for new cars to 54.5 miles per gallon by 2025 -- roughly double the present standard.

Ah. Well, that's actually a mark I doubt very much will be hit. The report also thinks a that biofuels will be A Thing, which I doubt. Assuming some of these things I don't in fact assume:

The IEA sees profound consequences. For starters, the long-standing U.S. trade deficit will narrow and might disappear. In 2011, oil imports represented two-thirds of the deficit in goods. While the United States will use less imported oil, it should also become a substantial exporter of liquefied natural gas (LNG); until a few years ago, it “was expected to become a major importer of LNG.” Abundant and cheap natural gas should support a manufacturing revival by attracting energy-intensive industries such as “aluminum, paper or iron and steel, or . . . petrochemicals . . . where feedstock costs can represent over 80 percent of total operating expenses.”

If America can just survive Obama, help is on the way.

Posted by: Ace at 11:05 AM



Comments

1 Hahahahahaha.

Posted by: EPA at November 15, 2012 11:06 AM (/YJYi)

2 A dead country drills not.



Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 11:06 AM (sRus3)

3 In Amerika, country drill YOU!

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2012 11:07 AM (XkWWK)

4 *ahem*

ain't gonna happen, champ.

Posted by: The EPA at November 15, 2012 11:08 AM (P47hr)

5 What use ids all that oil and coal if the Democrats won't let us use it?

Oh, I know, our champions, the GOP will save us.



Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 11:08 AM (sRus3)

6 Assuming things that are not happening. Obama has already closed off large areas of shale oil in the West. He will close off more soon.


Eventually he will get the EPA to kill all of it via license denials, regulations, and simply halting it.

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 11:09 AM (YdQQY)

7 If we have, as the article in the sidebar indicates, 3 times as much recoverable oil and gas than was used by the entire world in 100 years, we can pay off over time most of the $80-100 trillion in debt by selling to the world and by using it to spur incredible economic growth

That presumes we will be allowed to do so. Okay, I'll put the crack pipe down now.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 15, 2012 11:10 AM (XkWWK)

8 If we survive it will be *in spite* of Obama. But of course the MFM will record that if we survive it will be *because* of Obama.

The winners get to write the history books.

Posted by: Nighthawk at November 15, 2012 11:10 AM (RSqz2)

9 Hell , we'll be burning dung for fuel by then .

Posted by: awkward davies at November 15, 2012 11:10 AM (USjX1)

10 Water needed for fracking - It would probably be easier to build massive quarries/reservoirs to store rainfall that ends up in the oceans anyway.

That said.. we could use a helluva less oil in the eastern states that use it for heating homes simply by building small nuke plants and converting to electric heating.

There are more ways to become "energy independent" than simply producing more oil.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 15, 2012 11:11 AM (f9c2L)

11 America can survive another 4 years of Obama, it can't survive the stupidity of 50% of the citizenry that votes straight democrat regardless of results, lawbreaking, and complete failure. In a D6 environment its probable that Jesse Jackson Junior would have 45% of the vote locked up before campaigning began.

Posted by: Mr pink at November 15, 2012 11:11 AM (EJr9e)

12 Eventually he will get the EPA to kill all of it via license denials, regulations, and simply halting it.


Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 11:09 AM


He won't have to, Vic. There will simply be no money to pay for energy by 2035.

Or food.

Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 15, 2012 11:11 AM (yKUrR)

13 The Federal Empire must fall first.

Then the new USA can prosper.

Until that happens it's Democrat party-time.

Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 11:11 AM (sRus3)

14 The report also thinks a that biofuels will be A Thing


Soylent Green is people!

Posted by: ghost of Charlton Heston at November 15, 2012 11:11 AM (bAGA/)

15 The Obama administration has adopted rules raising fuel efficiency for new cars to 54.5 miles per gallon by 2025

And now we know why he's giving out all that free birth control...he's eliminated vehicles that seat more than two.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 15, 2012 11:11 AM (/kI1Q)

16 You can't take a piss without the government regulating it, Obama will regulate this out of existence.


If only Romney/Ryan had made a better case.

Ah well.

There's always 2016?

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 15, 2012 11:11 AM (RrD4h)

17 If America can just survive Obama, help is on the way.

Funny, that's the same words TFG said when he was senator, running for the nomination. "Help is on the way!"


Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:12 AM (GQ8sn)

18

Right.

85mpg cafe standards.

And Social Security will still be solvent.

And unicorns.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 15, 2012 11:12 AM (VE0cN)

19 If we have, as the article in the sidebar indicates,
3 times as much recoverable oil and gas than was used by the entire
world in 100 years, we can pay off over time most of the $80-100
trillion in debt by selling to the world and by using it to spur
incredible economic growth


Posted by: J.J. Sefton
...........
Are we going to nationalize those resources?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 15, 2012 11:12 AM (f9c2L)

20 By 2035, all our power will come from pixy dust and unicorn farts.

Posted by: real joe at November 15, 2012 11:12 AM (8MAU2)

21 Oh, we may become energy independent under Hussein's imperial boot, yes indeed. A thoroughly devastated economy will not need more energy than the Nation Below Canada can provide.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows the chocolate ration only goes up at November 15, 2012 11:13 AM (Lxw+T)

22 Barry: Damn right we will be. Windmills and solar panels. Solyndra will lead the way!!!

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 15, 2012 11:13 AM (1Jaio)

23 I heard on the radio yesterday that there is work on a 500 dollar gadget that will hook up to homes with a natural gas supply so they will be able to fill up cars (that can run on NG - there's only one that I know of) in their own driveway. Last I checked running a car on NG is the equivalent of around .60 to .80 cents a gallon.

We've got a couple hundred year supply of NG. Shake the oil ticks loose.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 15, 2012 11:13 AM (feFL6)

24 via massive transcontinental pipes and desalinated.


Look for Obama to promote trains instead.

Posted by: cajun carrot at November 15, 2012 11:13 AM (UZQM8)

25 I see nothing in this description of the future U.S. energy profile that guarantees birth control for Sandra Fluke. Ergo, try again.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at November 15, 2012 11:13 AM (B+qrE)

26 Ace,
I know there was some movement for a while in using CO2 in place of water for the fracking and shale oil.
I don't know what became of it. It had a nice side effect of providing usefulness to all those crappy "carbon capture" programs. (Capture the carbon in the form of CO2, compress it, move it to the location, deploy.)
If we continue down the Carbon capture road, and don't arrive at a use for all the CO2 we capture we'll be left with handing out free baking soda to everyone .
(A lab I worked in for a while was converting CO2 to HCO3- using Carbonic Anhydrases. There was then some MAGIC! (TM and patented I believe) that used salt water to convert it to HCL and NACO3 (i.e. baking soda and Hydrochloric acid.)

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at November 15, 2012 11:13 AM (wGOqj)

27 Will this help the Looming Twinkie Shortage ?

Posted by: AmericanDawg at November 15, 2012 11:13 AM (XIsD/)

28 The technical problems are just part of the matter; it is the costs that need to be addressed. This isn't gee-whiz like cylindrical solar cells or all of the other green-energy tech, thus this will not get all of the subsidies, credits, etc.

I think that will be a boon because the costs will have to be addressed in a world without 'free' money. And that will spark the innovation to get the water or find out how to frack with less water.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - What a Relief at November 15, 2012 11:14 AM (hLRSq)

29 If only Romney/Ryan had made a better case promised more free shit than Obama.

Fixed.

Posted by: real joe at November 15, 2012 11:14 AM (8MAU2)

30 Intererstingly enough, those were Ambassador Stevens last words, "If I can only survive Obama, help is on the way".

Posted by: Boots at November 15, 2012 11:14 AM (neKzn)

31 Supposedly the break even price to get the oil, which isn't even oil per se (Kerogen) is $80 and the energy content is about half that of oil. So it has a long way to go. Dems have been adding amendments into bills for years that prohibit spending any money to write rules for private exploration/extraction, which pretty much kills it.

Thats from memory, reading about it 6 years ago.

Posted by: Whatev at November 15, 2012 11:14 AM (2t6Gz)

32 I am indifferent.

Le sigh.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 15, 2012 11:14 AM (QupBk)

33 but but but PEAK OIL!!!!


I don't hear the idiots spouting off about peak oil anymore...

Posted by: Memories at November 15, 2012 11:14 AM (ysmpp)

34 Oh, so that means I can get the Boss 429 out of storage in 2023?

Cool.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 15, 2012 11:14 AM (9FOZv)

35 If America can just survive Obama, help is on the way.

I'm not sure we can make that assumption. When the EPA and the greenies can essentially shut down agriculture in an entire region of Cali then I don't see this sort of arrangement getting approval.

Posted by: joncelli at November 15, 2012 11:15 AM (RD7QR)

36 85mpg cafe standards.

I, uh, now let me be clear, I don't need, uh, Congress to, uh, change the, the, the Laws of Thermodynamics! I can. uh, as I have said before, go around them and, uh, do it myself.

Posted by: Barry SCOAMF at November 15, 2012 11:15 AM (/kI1Q)

37 And now we know why he's giving out all that free birth control...he's eliminated vehicles that seat more than two.


Start stocking up on used auto parts for your vehicles.

Posted by: cicero skip at November 15, 2012 11:15 AM (3m9Uc)

38 I got the sense a seriously large-scale operation would have to involve ocean water being pumped in via massive transcontinental pipes and desalinated.

I wonder if it has to be desalinated. The "water" used is already a cocktail of various, proprietary ingredients. It's already assumed you have to keep it away from drinking water wells. Not sure if we have to desalinate it, but access to large amounts of water is vital to extracting shale gas.

Posted by: CJ at November 15, 2012 11:15 AM (9KqcB)

39 Posted by: tsrblke (work) at November 15, 2012 11:13 AM (wGOqj)


Please stop giving me, a chemist, a headache.

Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 11:16 AM (sRus3)

40 There are other methods.

Posted by: Jean at November 15, 2012 11:16 AM (qjHIb)

41 In 10 years there will be no more USA.

Posted by: Hostilian at November 15, 2012 11:16 AM (KwQGD)

42 By 2035, all our power will come from pixy dust and unicorn farts.


Posted by: real joe at November 15, 2012 11:12 AM


You talkin' about the same "pixy" that maintains (so to speak) the HQ?

We're truly boned.

Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 15, 2012 11:16 AM (yKUrR)

43 Here's a thought, what if closing off all that development is Phase 1. Then Phase 2 is assenting to the clamor for energy development - but it must be done in a way that is "environmentally, fiscally and socially responsible." Which of course means the government has to be in charge. So we get a nationalized oil business, which chips away at the deficit, provides lots of jobs for favored constituencies, and prevents all those nasty speculators and profiteers from getting their grubby, uncouth, Republican hands on any of this great Nation's national resources.

This will work as well as it does everywhere else, which is to say extremely well for those in charge, and increasingly poorly for everyone else, until it collapses under the weight of the accreted corruption.

Posted by: Eric J. at November 15, 2012 11:16 AM (RPtyk)

44 No water for oil!!!!eleventy!1111!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Hipster Obamabot at November 15, 2012 11:16 AM (UOM48)

45 Obama is laying the groundwork to force shale into direct federal control lock stock and barrel.

They fucked up hijacking 12.5% of earnings into a stable anti-poverty aged protection plan comrade...

The "water" would be solved by nuclear powered desalization plants o a few others....

ARRRGGGGHHHHH

THEY WILL NOT LET US WORK

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:17 AM (LRFds)

46 2035, huh? Yeah well, the Chinese will love our natural resources by then. Thanks, Choom-Dada.

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:17 AM (BoE3Z)

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:18 AM (BoE3Z)

48 The only reason we cannot change the laws of thermodynamics is that Congress has too many obstructionist Republicans.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows the chocolate ration only goes up at November 15, 2012 11:18 AM (Lxw+T)

49 23 SC,

You're making the assumption the left cares about energy usage more than control.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:18 AM (LRFds)

50 No water for oil!!!!eleventy!1111!!!!!!!!!

Yeah! Take the bus, then you won't need oil!

Posted by: Typical Obama Voter at November 15, 2012 11:18 AM (/kI1Q)

51 I don't hear the idiots spouting off about peak oil anymore...


Posted by: Memories
........
I believe peak oil refers to the easy oil.. fracking is not easy and definitely not cheap. When we are willing to spend $50 plus per barrel just to get it out of the ground, I believe we are past peak oil.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 15, 2012 11:18 AM (f9c2L)

52 Typically a frac job uses about 3,250,000 to 4,875,000 dollars for a multi stage frac which translates to the same as irrigating 5 acres of crops. Even then, the water is largely recoverable.

Not all of the new drilling requires fracing....

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:18 AM (t06LC)

53 via massive transcontinental pipes and desalinated.


Look for Obama to promote trains instead.
Posted by: cajun carrot at November 15, 2012 11:13 AM (UZQM
------------------------------------------------------
You mean the Inter-Continental railroad?

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 11:18 AM (jucos)

54 38 CJ,

That is also "phase 2" of course the refineries have to be in texas...

name a single other state that will tolerate new refinery construction?

idiots

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (LRFds)

55 If America can just survive Obama, help is on the way.

It's so cute when you're optimistic.

Shale oil is just more wealth to be redistributed to the world.

Posted by: Methos at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (hO9ad)

56 So I never got an answer in the last News Dump thread about gun morons' opinions:

La Rue
Lewis Machine Tool
LWRC
Noveske

What say you?

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (GQ8sn)

57 We don't have to deal with the costs or technical issues.

We only need to grant full access to these fuel sources, and then let the free market do its thing.

The only energy policy the USA needs is the free market is in charge.

Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (sRus3)

58 50
No water for oil!!!!eleventy!1111!!!!!!!!!

Yeah! Take the bus, then you won't need oil!


Posted by: Typical Obama Voter at November 15, 2012 11:18 AM (/kI1Q)
I know you mean this in a humorous vein, but I've met these 'tards.

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (BoE3Z)

59 Some of you may remember a former Denver Bronco named Vance Johnson. He opened a restaurant in Parachute Colorado named Outlaw Ribs. Parachute is in the midst of oil shale country and energy production country generally. He is now bitching because his restaurant is being boycotted by workers from the oil patch. It seems he 1) endorsed Obama and 2) made his restaurant available for meetings of the local Donk party.

Imagine that. The roughnecks are all pissed off because he was shitting where they were eating.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (Hx5uv)

60 Hasn't it been about 35 years since we've built an oil refinery? Our government can't even get roads fixed decently. I suspect we'll be doing a lot more walking in the future.

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (wWZWw)

61 name a single other state that will tolerate new refinery construction?

Until last week, I might have guessed North Dakota.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 15, 2012 11:20 AM (/kI1Q)

62 Posted by: eman at November 15, 2012 11:16 AM (sRus3)

Yeah, trying doing that with a cold.

The worst part, the Carbonic Anhydrases came from Mouse mitochondria. (The plan was to chemically manufacture them later if the proof of concept worked.) Guess whose job it was to collect all those mitochondria? (Yeah me.)
PILES OF MOUSE LIVERS!

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at November 15, 2012 11:20 AM (wGOqj)

63 You mean the Inter-Continental railroad?
Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 11:18 AM (jucos)


Where we're going, we don't need roads...

Posted by: cajun carrot at November 15, 2012 11:20 AM (UZQM8)

64 Great news! Those of us who don't freeze in the dark will be energy independent.

Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit S.O.B. at November 15, 2012 11:20 AM (Mwakv)

65
The ranks of America's poor edged up last year to a high of 49.7
million, based on a new census measure that takes into account medical
costs and work-related expenses.
The numbers released Wednesday
by the Census Bureau are part of a newly developed supplemental poverty
measure. Devised a year ago, this measure provides a fuller picture of
poverty that the government believes can be used to assess safety-net
programs by factoring in living expenses and taxpayer-provided benefits
that the official formula leaves out.Based on the revised
formula, the number of poor people exceeded the 49 million, or 16
percent of the population, who were living below the poverty line in
2010. That came as more people in the slowly improving economy picked up
low-wage jobs last year but still struggled to pay living expenses.





Yes comrades, our slowly improving economy creates more people in poverty. Funny how all of these numbers are showing up now

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 15, 2012 11:21 AM (1Jaio)

66 BRB, still adjusting...

Posted by: DOW at November 15, 2012 11:21 AM (UZQM8)

67 Obama will never let this happen.

Posted by: jewells45 at November 15, 2012 11:21 AM (l/N7H)

68 So we get a nationalized oil business, which chips away at the deficit, provides lots of jobs for favored constituencies, and prevents all those nasty speculators and profiteers from getting their grubby, uncouth, Republican hands on any of this great Nation's national resources.

First there was Pemex. Then there was BarackOil.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows the chocolate ration only goes up at November 15, 2012 11:21 AM (Lxw+T)

69 -42.09 (-0.33%)

One of these days we are going to get an up day.

Posted by: DJIA DeathWatch at November 15, 2012 11:21 AM (QupBk)

70 Guess whose job it was to collect all those mitochondria? (Yeah me.)
PILES OF MOUSE LIVERS!


Mouse livers are small compared to rats (Han Wistar or Sprague Dawley) and dogs (Beagles)

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:21 AM (GQ8sn)

71 51 Chi-Town Jerry even that may not be rue.

Look Siberia is untapped, there are resevoirs of untapped fuel...

add in that the price is largely political and perhaps the best thing that could happen is anarchy.

Shale is not goemetrically harder to get it is an arithmatic progression....

also a lot more sensible than Captain EO's solar fetish

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:21 AM (LRFds)

72 PILES OF MOUSE LIVERS!


Posted by: tsrblke (work) at November 15, 2012 11:20 AM


Damn you, now I'm hungry....

Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 15, 2012 11:21 AM (yKUrR)

73 Oh, joy - a US version of PEMEX or YPF a comin'...

Posted by: Skookumchuk at November 15, 2012 11:21 AM (0Db2g)

74 Analysis: US To Become Energy Independent By 2035

I read this as: "US To Shake Off Democrat Reign in 2020"

Posted by: t-bird at November 15, 2012 11:22 AM (FcR7P)

75 @56
For what use?
Accuracy - Noveske or Larue.
Battle Rifle - LMT or Chrome lined Noveske (or Colt, now available at Wal-Mart)

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:23 AM (t06LC)

76 The worst part, the Carbonic Anhydrases came from Mouse mitochondria.
(The plan was to chemically manufacture them later if the proof of
concept worked.)


Holy shit you have JEDI MICE?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 15, 2012 11:23 AM (SY2Kh)

77 The Obama administration has adopted rules raising fuel efficiency for
new cars to 54.5 miles per gallon by 2025 -- roughly double the present
standard.


That's fucking stupid. The only they could do that is to make one-seater hybrid motorcycles with a 25cc engine.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:23 AM (GQ8sn)

78 If America can just survive Obama, help is on the way.


Posted by: Ace at 11:05 AM


Screw you guys, I'm looking at property in New Zealand.

Posted by: America at November 15, 2012 11:23 AM (YOZSv)

79 56 ,

the least expensive...they are all near equal

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:23 AM (LRFds)

80 73
Oh, joy - a US version of PEMEX or YPF a comin'...

Posted by: Skookumchuk at November 15, 2012 11:21 AM (0Db2g)
That's the plan, comrade. Obama=Mugabe.

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:23 AM (BoE3Z)

81 Posted by: DJIA DeathWatch at November 15, 2012 11:21 AM (QupBk)

Hope! Change!

But seriously, you've had an up day.

One of the days last week, the Dow was up what, 4 points?

Posted by: Methos at November 15, 2012 11:23 AM (hO9ad)

82 The only reason we cannot change the laws of thermodynamics is that Congress has too many obstructionist Republicans.

Recently some brainiac in Chicago wanted to make the oil companies change their gas pump to make sure that a gallon of gas in the cold morning hours would be the same volume as it would be when the ground warms up in the sunlight. So they wanted to change the law of expansion due to temperature!!!!!!!
That is what is running our country!!!!!!

Posted by: cicero skip at November 15, 2012 11:23 AM (3m9Uc)

83
CONGRATULATIONS!!!

You won a free trial for MacAffee Anti-Neighbor 2012!!

Posted by: notaspammer at November 15, 2012 11:24 AM (VE0cN)

84 What say you?


Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (GQ8sn)


Boobehs

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 15, 2012 11:24 AM (da5Wo)

85 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 15, 2012 11:24 AM (5DR1j)

86 Forget drilling, let's build a high speed underground rail line from NYC to London. It would create jobs, increase revenues in both cities, and best of all cost lots and lots of money.

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at November 15, 2012 11:25 AM (/YJYi)

87 This is it! This is the moment we've been waiting for! This could be the moment when Barack Obama lowers the oceans!

Posted by: Fritz at November 15, 2012 11:25 AM (/ZZCn)

88 also a lot more sensible than Captain EO's solar fetish


Posted by: sven10077
........
ANYTHING is more sensible than the JEF's policies..

Yes.. there are likely untapped large reserves around the world. But we were talking energy independence... Siberian oil doesn't help much.

ANWR sure would though!

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 15, 2012 11:25 AM (f9c2L)

89 That's fucking stupid. The only they could do that is to make one-seater hybrid motorcycles with a 25cc engine.


Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:23 AM (GQ8sn)



Your point?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 15, 2012 11:25 AM (da5Wo)

90 86
Forget drilling, let's build a high speed underground rail line from NYC to London.
Solar powered, of course.

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:25 AM (BoE3Z)

91 75
@56

For what use?

Accuracy - Noveske or Larue.

Battle Rifle - LMT or Chrome lined Noveske (or Colt, now available at Wal-Mart)

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:23 AM (t06LC)

I want a battle rifle that will take some abuse and still shoot the dick of a flea at 100 yards. I am not buying for competition so no match rifles.
What is the deal with non-chromed barrels? The HK MR556 is deliberately non-chromed because HK says it can mask barrel imperfections. Bullshit or real?
I see that Noveske double-chromes their barrels for long-life and durability. Overkill or for real?

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:25 AM (GQ8sn)

92 If we pump oceans of midichlorians into the ground all we'll get is millions of cubic feet of boring dialogue and a mess of computer graphics.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows the chocolate ration only goes up at November 15, 2012 11:25 AM (Lxw+T)

93 Oh, joy - a US version of PEMEX or YPF a comin'...

You know what Joe Biden does with his share? High-speed trains!

Posted by: t-bird at November 15, 2012 11:26 AM (FcR7P)

94 84
What say you?




Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (GQ8sn)

Boobehs


Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 15, 2012 11:24 AM (da5Wo)

Yeah, if I wasn't at work, I'd be pouring down the boobehs like Sandy.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:26 AM (GQ8sn)

95 Wind and solar are the energy sources of the future, both driven by the Dear Leader: Hot air gusts from one end of him, sunbeams shoot out the other!

Posted by: RNB at November 15, 2012 11:27 AM (fe/Mk)

96 90
86

Forget drilling, let's build a high speed underground rail line from NYC to London.
Solar powered, of course.


Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:25 AM (BoE3Z)

You could probably get funding for that with this government.Seriously.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:27 AM (GQ8sn)

97 2035?

One word -- Flying cars.

Posted by: eleven at November 15, 2012 11:27 AM (KXm42)

98 This is an article about the NG car from 2003...

''Honda will sell an appliance, called a "Phill," with each Civic GX to fill the car's tank from the homeowner's gas line. Phill will cost $2,000, but tax credits may knock the end-cost down to $1,000. Civic GX will cost $20,000, about the same as a hybrid gas/electric Civic.

Phill, made by Toronto-based Fuelmaker, requires eight hours to half-fill a vehicle, good for 100 miles. GX owners also can refill at approximately 1,300 natural-gas stations nationwide. Filling stations that dispense compressed natural gas under pressure can fill a tank in three to five minutes.''

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 15, 2012 11:27 AM (feFL6)

99 Water needed for fracking - It would probably be easier to build massive
quarries/reservoirs to store rainfall that ends up in the oceans
anyway.

---

Water is, to quote our esteemed vice president, a big fucking deal out here. We've had a bad year and, in fact, I read in the local paper yesterday that cruelty to animal cases are on the rise because the lack of water means that the cost of fodder for horses and other livestock is out of reach for many animal owners. We are currently involved in negotiating with Mexico on how to share the water that we have. I'm sure the Mexicans will be reasonable and that Obama will hang tough for America so I'm not worried. We have many assaults and other crimes arising from water disputes.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 15, 2012 11:27 AM (Hx5uv)

100 >>will people still be making money on investments ten years from now?

That's one hell of a question, and get out of my head!

Posted by: SpongeBob Saget at November 15, 2012 11:28 AM (SDkq3)

101 Yeah, if I wasn't at work, I'd be pouring down the boobehs like Sandy.
Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:26 AM (GQ8sn)
--------------------------------------------------------
What is this 'work' thing that people keep talking about?

Posted by: Truck Monkey Unemployed Since January at November 15, 2012 11:28 AM (jucos)

102 Actually, to some extent, Biofuels are already "a thing." Biodiesel (depending on what you mean by that term) is really just a fancy way of saying "cooking oil."

In fact, most diesel engines can already run on such things. There are a not-insignificant number of people who will buy used cooking oil from restaurants, filter it, and then run their trucks on it.

I have no idea what kind of mileage they get, but considering the oil is so cheap to them (they'll get several gallons to a dollar), it almost doesn't matter.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 15, 2012 11:28 AM (5DR1j)

103 You know what Joe Biden does with his share? High-speed trains!

Posted by: t-bird at November 15, 2012 11:26 AM (FcR7P)
To haul all of us "wreckers" to the camps, no doubt.

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:28 AM (BoE3Z)

104 88 CTJ,

again highlighting that the donks don't want a single fucking thing tapped until we are communist.

Bank on it.

I was serious, I am resting and trying to get as clear a mind as I can because I am deciding some things.

Not gonna be a nutball lone gunman crap psycho either none of that I am talking being mentally prepared if a serious split hits.

Texas will NOT tolerate nationalization of mineral assets, and I won't either.

I know that much.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:28 AM (LRFds)

105 A fracking oil expert was on FoxB yesterday and he was asked specifically about the cost of extracting this oil. He said that at current prices and even below it which he said was expected if they started flooding the market it was still practical to do.


Make no mistake, the only real hurdle we have to this is government opposition to satisfy the watermelons and their lust for power.

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 11:28 AM (YdQQY)

106 @56
I should add, I had at least one Colt, Larue, LMT, and LWRC (I don't think the piston is necessacary) and my go to was a Knights Armament SR 15 (I would add that into your list), that is, until the boating accident...

Best all round, Knights SR15

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:28 AM (t06LC)

107 That's fucking stupid. The only they could do that is to make one-seater hybrid motorcycles with a 25cc engine.

55 mpg non-hybrid cars are possible now. A lot of little European cars get about that.

Sure, they're tiny little ecoboxes powered by a 1.2 liter engine making a whopping 75 horsepower and 0-60 times best measured with a calendar. But possible.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 15, 2012 11:28 AM (SY2Kh)

108 The report also thinks a that biofuels will be A Thing


Soylent Green is people!


Posted by: ghost of Charlton Heston at November 15, 2012 11:11 AM (bAGA/)

Soylent Green energy is unicorns!

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 15, 2012 11:29 AM (Hx5uv)

109 102 Allen G,

If the bottom falls in that is my cash business.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:29 AM (LRFds)

110 Mouse livers are small compared to rats (Han Wistar or Sprague Dawley) and dogs (Beagles)


Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:21 AM (GQ8sn)
Yes, hence the problem. I could have done it quicker with bigger livers. But we're primarily a mouse lab, so we had mice handy. So we used mice. (Opportunity costs as it was.)Also, something about diabetic mice being the most awesome for our plan. And we had some CA knockout mice we were using for comparison. I stopped listening at that point because I was busy doing the math in my head about exactly how long my dissections were going to take. It wasn't ultimately that bad, except that I needed to have the mice done by noon to get the livers to the guy processing them by 12:30 so he could get done before 6. Even as fast as I got, I was still only capable of getting a mouse done every 2-3 minutes. Plus set up and cleanup. I told them perfusion was just out of the question (the anethesia alone is a 5-10 minute setup per mouse , with another 5 minute perfusion, and 1-2 minute dissection. At 40 mice it'd have taken me all day.)

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at November 15, 2012 11:29 AM (wGOqj)

111 The liberal response will be that by 2035 they would have perfected solar, wind and wave power so oil sands and shale will be not needed.

Posted by: polynikes at November 15, 2012 11:29 AM (m2CN7)

112 name a single other state that will tolerate new refinery construction?

idiots
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (LRFds)-- Louisiana and Mississippi

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at November 15, 2012 11:30 AM (R8hU8)

113 107 Hollowpoint,

55mpg cars that aren't shoe boxes are already here....look up VW diesel hybrid and then ask your congresscritter why the fuck it is not legal here.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:30 AM (LRFds)

114 What is this 'work' thing that people keep talking about?

Posted by: Truck Monkey Unemployed Since January at November 15, 2012 11:28 AM (jucos)


It's the place where I eventually send more of my money to the Man.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:30 AM (GQ8sn)

115 Dumb question, but could treated sewage water be used in the fracking process?

Posted by: Joe at November 15, 2012 11:30 AM (TQaK3)

116 @105
We have it commercial assuming at least $65 oil.
In my experience, $75 plus oil is more realistic. Some of these wells come on at 2000 plus BO/D, but the decline curve is unknown at this time.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:30 AM (t06LC)

117 I have no idea what kind of mileage they get, but considering the oil is
so cheap to them (they'll get several gallons to a dollar), it almost
doesn't matter.


It'll matter to the people who think "carbon emissions = evil".

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 15, 2012 11:31 AM (/kI1Q)

118 112 velvet ambition,

Yeah you'll recall I said those three are the future?

That's why but Texas has the overall better launchpad/willingness.

I'm ready to vote with my feet I think.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:31 AM (LRFds)

119 Biofuels!

To the Shit-Mobile, Robin Biden!

Posted by: president o'bumbles at November 15, 2012 11:31 AM (nkiQM)

120 Natural Gas is a good way to power a car. Tarrant county has an agreement with one of the natural gas companies (Atmos?) to build some natural gas stations.

The conversion for your car isn't cheap, as I understand it, but when you figure out the cost differential for fuel, I'm betting you'll get your money back pretty quick.

What we really need is some car that can switch between the two, though I don't know how you'd do that, since I would think (at minimum) you'd need two different fuel tanks.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 15, 2012 11:31 AM (5DR1j)

121 Oh, about blaming Sandy for layoffs?

The highest numbers of new filings came from Pennsylvania and Ohio, where there were thousands of layoffs in the construction, manufacturing, and automobile industries.

Of course, this will not make the evening news.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows the chocolate ration only goes up at November 15, 2012 11:31 AM (Lxw+T)

122 ".....wave power so oil sands and shale will be not needed."....

Posted by: polynikes at November 15, 2012 11:29 AM (m2CN7)
Now that there wave power.......























Posted by: tubal,what lives in Illinois at November 15, 2012 11:31 AM (BoE3Z)

123 name a single other state that will tolerate new refinery construction?

idiots


Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (LRFds)

Alaska.

Posted by: tcn at November 15, 2012 11:31 AM (ZOUmX)

124
102
Actually, to some extent, Biofuels are already "a thing." Biodiesel
(depending on what you mean by that term) is really just a fancy way of
saying "cooking oil."

In fact, most diesel engines can already
run on such things. There are a not-insignificant number of people who
will buy used cooking oil from restaurants, filter it, and then run
their trucks on it.

I have no idea what kind of mileage they get,
but considering the oil is so cheap to them (they'll get several
gallons to a dollar), it almost doesn't matter.


Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 15, 2012 11:28 AM (5DR1j)


There's a musician and his wife who tour the country and occasionally play at local restaurants where I live that lives on and drives a big bus that he runs entirely on the used cooking oil he gets from the places he plays. And I quote, "I smell like a giant french fry driving down the highway."

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 15, 2012 11:31 AM (da5Wo)

125 I could have done it quicker with bigger livers. But we're primarily a
mouse lab, so we had mice handy. So we used mice. (Opportunity costs as
it was.)Also, something about diabetic mice being the most awesome for
our plan. And we had some CA knockout mice we were using for comparison.
I stopped listening at that point because I was busy doing the math in
my head about exactly how long my dissections were going to take. It
wasn't ultimately that bad, except that I needed to have the mice done
by noon to get the livers to the guy processing them by 12:30 so he
could get done before 6. Even as fast as I got, I was still only capable
of getting a mouse done every 2-3 minutes. Plus set up and cleanup. I
told them perfusion was just out of the question (the anethesia alone is
a 5-10 minute setup per mouse , with another 5 minute perfusion, and
1-2 minute dissection. At 40 mice it'd have taken me all day.)


Where do you work if I can ask?

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:31 AM (GQ8sn)

126 I do enjoy that the plan to save fuel is to mandate higher MPG requirements. Because mandating it automatically completes all the inventing needed and MAKES IT SO!

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at November 15, 2012 11:32 AM (wGOqj)

127 116 JollyRoger,

You hiring?

Need an EMT qualified truck driver who knows his way around small unit tactics?

I'm barely bullshitting..

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:32 AM (LRFds)

128 48 The only reason we cannot change the laws of thermodynamics is that Congress has too many obstructionist Republicans.
Posted by: George Orwell what knows the chocolate ration only goes up at November 15, 2012 11:18 AM (Lxw+T)


I'll expect my new monitor tomorrow by FEDEX overnight.....

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 15, 2012 11:32 AM (9FOZv)

129 @115

The pumps are a bit sensitive, but I don't see why not. All fracing is is pushing high pressure water and proppant back into the well to fracture the formation. The proppant (usually a silicate) holds the formation open so hydrocarbons can permeate back to the well.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:32 AM (t06LC)

130 1) Why does it have to be fresh water?
2) How close is Lake Superior to this operation? Lots of fresh water in Lake Superior.

OK, I just checked a map. Duluth, MN is about the same distance from the center of Wyoming as the center of WY is from the Pacific coast. But the land between MN and WY is much flatter.

Posted by: Rod Munsch at November 15, 2012 11:32 AM (2aB+q)

131 If the bottom falls in that is my cash business.

And why I'm seriously considering a diesel for my next vehicle.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 15, 2012 11:32 AM (5DR1j)

132 look up VW diesel hybrid and then ask your congresscritter why the fuck it is not legal here.

Seats more than two, trunk can hold more than a single sack of groceries. Gaia weeps.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 15, 2012 11:33 AM (/kI1Q)

133 123 TCN,

I mentioned Union with Canada for just that reason...

a break up with Alaska isolated means Ivan gets it back free or WOLVERINES!

No bullshit.

I'm thinking the whole map needs redone.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:33 AM (LRFds)

134 Problem is Obama will use this is an excuse to spend spend spend to the point all the oil couldn't possibly pay off the interest on the accrued debt.

Either that or we are so 3rd world socialist dysfunctional that oil wealth just makes things worse.

Posted by: Blue Falcon in Boston at November 15, 2012 11:33 AM (KCvsd)

135 106
@56

I should add, I had at least one Colt, Larue, LMT, and LWRC (I don't
think the piston is necessacary) and my go to was a Knights Armament SR
15 (I would add that into your list), that is, until the boating
accident...



Best all round, Knights SR15

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:28 AM (t06LC)


So you say gas all the way? I am going to see what the show offers, but I am writing all this down. Hopefully someone there will have one for me. If they say go online, I'll move along.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:34 AM (GQ8sn)

136 Anyone want to venture a guess at the scenario that harmonizes the order that the SEALS stand down, failure to send any military assets in and the President's statement yesterday? Here is the statement:

"“If people don’t think that we did everything we can to make sure that we saved the lives of folks who I sent there, and who were carrying out missions on behalf of the United States, then you don’t know how our Defense Department thinks or our State Department thinks or our CIA thinks. Their number one priority is obviously to protect American lives...
I can can tell you that immediately upon finding out that our folks were in danger, that my orders to my national security team were do whatever we need to do to make sure they’re safe...."

The question is, under what circumstances would an order to "stand down" and do nothing make the American lives in Benghazi safer?

Posted by: USA at November 15, 2012 11:34 AM (RIg+t)

137 132 heather Radish,

Yup....it is what turned me from "fuzzy headed idealists" to "fucking evil tyrants"

Really gang research it.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:34 AM (LRFds)

138 OPEC is another major problem. At $80/barrel extraction of Kerogen and half the energy density, and 50 cents to $10 a barrel to extract oil in the middle east, they will wait until production starts ramping up and drop the price of oil - putting companies here out of business. They did it before.

Posted by: Whatev at November 15, 2012 11:34 AM (2t6Gz)

139 @127

Well, I'm not, but there are a lot of companies here that are. (I'm a lawyer) I'm actually located in the Eagleford Shale Play in South Texas. There are often ads in the local paper for truck drivers.
Its slowed down from the highs a little. I think companies are waiting to see what regulations come thier way.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:34 AM (t06LC)

140 Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:31 AM (GQ8sn)

A university. In the Midwest. You can either guess from there, or not, but any more than that starts to get a little much to start posting to an anonymous blog forum. I've probably given it away more than once on the twitters.
FWIW, our experiment was part of a venture capital startup at the university that we were "collaborating" with (I say quotes, because I'd seen this startup run before. They're great idea people, but frankly they are the suck at moving something to market.)

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at November 15, 2012 11:34 AM (wGOqj)

141

Seriously? That's the first time I've done that.

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at November 15, 2012 11:35 AM (wGOqj)

142 1) Why does it have to be fresh water?
2) How close is Lake Superior to this operation? Lots of fresh water in Lake Superior.

OK, I just checked a map. Duluth, MN is about the same distance from the center of Wyoming as the center of WY is from the Pacific coast. But the land between MN and WY is much flatter.
Posted by: Rod Munsch at November 15, 2012 11:32 AM (2aB+q)
------------------------------------------------------------
There are already established rail lines that run from MT and WY to The Port of Duluth. Building a waterline would be easy if the Railroads would permit it to run along their rail lines.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 11:35 AM (jucos)

143 131 Allen G,

I am not kidding worst case we need to collapse in and form an enclave.

We have very interesting interlocking skills.

I want to either gear jam or run a wrecker....

the bio-diesel thing would be a sideline and fuel cource for off the grid quonset hut cabins....

I want freedom and to be free from Blue shitheads,

Love Locke, hate Marx...first job interview question.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:36 AM (LRFds)

144 137
132 heather Radish,

Yup....it is what turned me from "fuzzy headed idealists" to "fucking evil tyrants"

Really gang research it.


Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:34 AM (LRFds)
Bastards have caused me to lose my religion, to an extent. I was tolerant, long-suffering, for a season. Now, just fuck 'em, it's war.

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:36 AM (BoE3Z)

145

Any luck there? (Frack me)

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at November 15, 2012 11:36 AM (wGOqj)

146 In the barrel tsrblke

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 15, 2012 11:36 AM (da5Wo)

147 I would dearly love to hear a reporter ask the worthless shitbag we have in office what part of the Constitution gives him or Congress the authority to set gas mileage on cars.



Of course if they meant for them to have that power they would have specified fodder/mile of horse travel. That is not there either.

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 11:36 AM (YdQQY)

148 If America can just survive Obama, help is on the way.

Yeah! (No.)

Posted by: T. Hunter - let it burn at November 15, 2012 11:36 AM (EZl54)

149 The italics, they burn!

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:37 AM (BoE3Z)

150 You know what they're going to say Vic. The ultimate catch all. Commerce Clause.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 15, 2012 11:37 AM (da5Wo)

151 `139 JollyRoger,

Some day I am going to ask you a very serious question Jolly.

You know me and you know while an asshole I am not a nut.

I need to know a few things about texas.

I want freedom and growth brother.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:37 AM (LRFds)

152 It was just reported that BP is getting ready to pay record criminal fines for the oil disaster in 2010.
I'm having trouble with my libtards at work and need a little help getting them on board with truth. I'm not sure how to intelligently inform them about the benefits of solely relying on oil, especially in light of the BP criminal fines. I'm getting beat up here. Any help would be appreciated.

Posted by: ConPunk at November 15, 2012 11:37 AM (vvw8n)

153 The question is, under what circumstances would an order to "stand down"
and do nothing make the American lives in Benghazi safer?




Responding to aggression with aggression just creates more aggression. Therefore, vis a vis, ergo it was in the best interest of the people in Benghazi being attacked for us to do nothing in the hopes that the misguided souls attacking the annex would put down their weapons and go home. They probably would have too if those idiots hadn't started shooting back with a nasty machine gun.

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at November 15, 2012 11:38 AM (/YJYi)

154 150 BC1981,

Yeah?

The right response is "a bridge too far fuck you"

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:38 AM (LRFds)

155 Posted by: USA at November 15, 2012 11:34 AM (RIg+t)

From what I understand, that was not his position when it came to the Somalia pirates holding an American hostage.

Also that does not explain why he did not make certain that the people he sent there were provided the necessary security that would have prevented their deaths. Where does he address their repeated warnings and requests for security? What a scumrag.

Posted by: polynikes at November 15, 2012 11:38 AM (m2CN7)

156 A university. In the Midwest.

Ok, I think I know where.

Yeah, we did liver perfusions here too, for something or other several years ago. It's like hot-wiring a Yugo: takes too fucking long. Primarily, my work involves rodents, mostly rats of the HW strain.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:38 AM (GQ8sn)

157 107 That's fucking stupid. The only they could do that is to make one-seater hybrid motorcycles with a 25cc engine.

55 mpg non-hybrid cars are possible now. A lot of little European cars get about that.

Sure, they're tiny little ecoboxes powered by a 1.2 liter engine making a whopping 75 horsepower and 0-60 times best measured with a calendar. But possible.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 15, 2012 11:28 AM (SY2Kh)


Japan's had them for eons. They were getting almost 40mpg back in the late 70's. They were shitboxes, they eventually got you there and you weren't going very fast on JN highways (such that they are) anyway.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 15, 2012 11:39 AM (9FOZv)

158 Ah, dung roasted rat on a spit.
Long Bill Whittle video at The Right Scoop should not be missed. I can't seem to post links here.

Posted by: Butters at November 15, 2012 11:39 AM (NIZHJ)

159 1) Why does it have to be fresh water?
2) How close is Lake Superior to this operation? Lots of fresh water in Lake Superior.

OK,
I just checked a map. Duluth, MN is about the same distance from the
center of Wyoming as the center of WY is from the Pacific coast. But the
land between MN and WY is much flatter.

---

You can just forget about building pipelines and shit. It might disturb the antelope and prairie dogs.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 15, 2012 11:39 AM (Hx5uv)

160 Natural Gas is a good way to power a car.

With the law of supply and demand being what it is, and some states like Pa finding 'Saudi Arabia size' fields of the stuff it's only a matter of time -- especially if they can fill 'er up right in the driveway.

There's a good reason that the Ohio food stamp people got their benefits cut by 50.00 a month... the price of NG is dropping like a stone.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 15, 2012 11:39 AM (feFL6)

161 OT:
One of my distant progressive relatives posted this over on FB ridiculing Romney's claim that if Obama were re-elected eight million new people would be unemployed and I called him out on his callousness:

"Romney has enough money to employ over 8
million people for the rest of their lives but whatever, I thought it was funny".

My Response:
Wow.
Those folks are going to be pretty upset trying to live the rest of
their lives on THOSE wages. Mitt's net worth is $250 million, so he
could give 8 million people about $32 each and he would be broke. Try
again. Economics is like scratch golf. If it was easy, everyone would do
it.

These people are economic illiterates (math b hard) laughing at the predicament of fellow citizens. When the fire consumes these people, I'll see if I can get the needle to move on my give-a-shit meter.

Posted by: Joe Mama at November 15, 2012 11:40 AM (JJ+PT)

162 138 Whatev,

Yup that is why a free texas can drill the shit out of the gulf as well...

the key is strategic use of our oil assets and shale to force the Sauds to keep it sub 60....

think of the shale as a loss leader.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:40 AM (LRFds)

163 >>>A few assumptions here: That Obama's strange policy choices do not forestall this possibility


You might as well assume perpetual motion devices will be invented.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 15, 2012 11:40 AM (0q2P7)

164 @135
Yeah. The rifle was designed for gas. The LWRC is the best piston, but its really not needed. A typical M4 will survive about 800 rounds on full auto before the gas tube gives out. You will never approach those temps as a civy on semi auto. Its just extra cost. If you do go through 800 rounds in a firefight as a civilian, you probably are dead anyway. Save the extra money and put it towards optics.

Also, avoid the shows. They have become a scam. Go to gunbroker.com and bid on one out of state. Have it sent to a local FFL and save on taxes (could be anywhere from $1-200). If you want to, go to the show for recon to see if you like the rife.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:40 AM (t06LC)

165 Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama at November 15, 2012 11:38 AM (/YJYi)

Nope. This President has a kill list. It can't be related to any aversion to force.

Posted by: USA at November 15, 2012 11:40 AM (RIg+t)

166 Doesn't that natural gas guy own a big ass aquifer? T. Boone Slim Pickens or something.

Posted by: Butters at November 15, 2012 11:42 AM (NIZHJ)

167 When we are willing to spend $50 plus per barrel just to get it out of the ground, I believe we are past peak oil.

I think of that $50/bbl as a cap on what OPEC can charge...which is a lot more than $50 right now.

If WE are the guys who can supply the "last barrel" of demand, we effectively cap the world price, not OPEC, and that price will NEVER be more than the $50 extraction cost +profits/refining/delivery/etc.

Rumor has it that the Saudi's lift cost/bbl is in the sub $5 range, which means the vast majority of a barrel of oil's price for them is pure profit.

If American industry could be guaranteed an oil price that never exceeded say $65/bbl, it would be a bigger economic boost than anything that's come along in decades.

Posted by: @PurpAv at November 15, 2012 11:42 AM (RRMAj)

168 Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:38 AM (GQ8sn)

TBH, I'm not sure it's the one you'd think about.
Granted, there aren't that many CA experts in the world, so the fact that I worked for one probably narrows it down quite a bit .

I skipped the "Liver perfusion" and opted for whole body total circuit perfusion. So much easier, and saline is cheap. But you had to put the mouse out with Ketamine, which took forever and you could only dose up one mouse at a time (in case you ran into problems they delayed you, you didn't want the next mouse in line to croak from anethesia before you got to it.)

Mice are tiny.

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at November 15, 2012 11:42 AM (wGOqj)

169 Natural Gas is a good way to power a car.
-----
Right now its probably the best way. Half the CO2, which you would think makes environ-mental cases happy, but it doesn't. It gets produced locally, engines last twice as long running on it, it puts the russians out of business (ton of nat gas through fracking in Europe) Oil is the only thing keeping Russia alive.

Posted by: Whatev at November 15, 2012 11:42 AM (2t6Gz)

170 There's a good reason that the Ohio food stamp
people got their benefits cut by 50.00 a month... the price of NG is
dropping like a stone.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 15, 2012 11:39 AM (feFL6)
True dat. And will continue to do so. Next year it really tanks. They'll cut production then, get the prices back up. According to an industry dud I listened to while eating rubber chicken at a sponsored luncheon, 40% reduction. Unless the global economy improves (snicker).

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:42 AM (BoE3Z)

171 I've got the solution to both meeting mileage requirements and reducing the cost of gas. We just adopt two new definitions of "gallon." A bigger one for CAFE standards and a smaller one for price computation.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 15, 2012 11:42 AM (Hx5uv)

172 147 I would dearly love to hear a reporter ask the worthless shitbag we have in office what part of the Constitution gives him or Congress the authority to set gas mileage on cars.
Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 11:36 AM (YdQQY)


There are tons of administrative regulations, none of which are explicitly stated in the constitution. I don't think the founders could have envisioned much about these, least of all administrative regulations that set limits on the acceptable amounts of rat feces in hot dogs. Or the standards for drinking water that we all have to drink, or food we all have to eat. That's kind of a silly argument.

Posted by: ConPunk at November 15, 2012 11:43 AM (vvw8n)

173 Yeah. The rifle was designed for gas. The LWRC is the best piston, but
its really not needed. A typical M4 will survive about 800 rounds on
full auto before the gas tube gives out. You will never approach those
temps as a civy on semi auto. Its just extra cost. If you do go through
800 rounds in a firefight as a civilian, you probably are dead anyway.
Save the extra money and put it towards optics.



Also, avoid the shows. They have become a scam. Go to gunbroker.com
and bid on one out of state. Have it sent to a local FFL and save on
taxes (could be anywhere from $1-200). If you want to, go to the show
for recon to see if you like the rife.


What's your opinion on HK's decision not to chrome their MR556 barrel?

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:43 AM (GQ8sn)

174 164 JollyRoger,

or seek out a police armorer in the country....

I bought MilSpec Rem 870s for about a 50 buck markup over the Wal-Mart hunting style.

My innards are a lot higher strength steel.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:43 AM (LRFds)

175 Mitt's net worth is $250 million, so he could give 8 million people about $32 each and he would be broke

Burn the math witch!

Posted by: Libtardian at November 15, 2012 11:43 AM (BrQrN)

176 @151

No problem. If you ask any Texan they'll tell you we might not be the promised land, bet we may be the closest thing to it.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:43 AM (t06LC)

177 Best all round, Knights SR15
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:28 AM (t06LC)


HAAAWWWWWT

Posted by: DOW at November 15, 2012 11:43 AM (UZQM8)

178 If America can just survive Obama, help is on the way.

------

**snicker**


Posted by: Mayan Calander at November 15, 2012 11:44 AM (nELVU)

179 Off blasted DOW sock, go back to your adjusting.

Posted by: cajun carrot at November 15, 2012 11:44 AM (UZQM8)

180 172 ConPunk,

so is growing this fucking ratfuck double bind from Upton Sinclair's the jungle....

regulating excess is not regulating death so far as i am concerned.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:44 AM (LRFds)

181 ‏@BreakingNews
BP pleads guilty to Gulf oil spill felony, agrees to pay extra $4.5 billion - @Reuters

Hopefully, BBC pension fund hardest hit.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 15, 2012 11:45 AM (uoA/0)

182 look up VW diesel hybrid and then ask your congresscritter why the fuck it is not legal here.

Because saving energy isn't the goal, making it so only rich, connected Beltway insiders have it is. Neo-Feudalism.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 11:45 AM (B/VB5)

183 Icebergs melting in the Texas swelter to extract the oil shale in Colorado.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 11:45 AM (5CDzH)

184 Posted by: tsrblke (work) at November 15, 2012 11:35 AM (wGOqj)


That's a 1 internetz fine, as well as a turn in the barrel.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 15, 2012 11:46 AM (5DR1j)

185 Mice are tiny.

Yes they are. I once had to embed some mouse tendons in OCT for cryotomy. Fuck that shit.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 11:46 AM (GQ8sn)

186 BP pleads guilty to Gulf oil spill felony, agrees to pay extra $4.5 billion

Straight up mob style extortion. There's no other name for it.

Posted by: @PurpAv at November 15, 2012 11:46 AM (RRMAj)

187 Sounds like you are mis-underestimating President F***up.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 45% more DOOM! at November 15, 2012 11:46 AM (fCMdQ)

188 Jolly Roger,

Are these available to the public? As a gun purchasing newb I don't know what AR's are available to me.

That SR15 and SR25ECR are precisely the type of rifles I'd like to have in my possession.

Posted by: cajun carrot at November 15, 2012 11:46 AM (UZQM8)

189 181 WCL,

Nah they are Obama donors wanna know what they just bought?

Sole concession with "sensible Federal oversight" off the gulf coast....

watch

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:47 AM (LRFds)

190 For anyone interested in arming up, and relatively on the cheap, I recommend the Tokarev 54 - 7.62/25 ammo. Get the Eastern Bloc ones though - Rumanian/Polish. Ammo is cheap and plentiful. Buy it in bulk. Some of it is APC.

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:47 AM (BoE3Z)

191 Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (LRFds)

Refinaries? Like a cracker plant? They are building one now in Western PA. Lots of jobs.

Posted by: CJ at November 15, 2012 11:47 AM (9KqcB)

192 Dow cashout at minus 36 already today.


Let It Burn.

Posted by: BuddyPC at November 15, 2012 11:47 AM (jfUIE)

193 @allenG,

Quite you, or I'll stop feeding you story leads!

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at November 15, 2012 11:47 AM (wGOqj)

194 You might as well assume perpetual motion devices will be invented.

Red Green built one in his last episode, but he couldn't get it pull-started.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 15, 2012 11:48 AM (/kI1Q)

195 @173
I think they went melonite (Nitride salt bath) on the barrel. I really like the process. It has the benefits of chrome (extremely hard surface hardness) plus none of the drawback by being non uniform in adhesion. I've heard reports that it can increase velocity in barrels due to its slickness as well.
Benchrest shooters have sung its praises for years. The LWRC uses Nicorr which is the same thing. I really like the idea.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:48 AM (t06LC)

196 or seek out a police armorer in the country....
Posted by: sven10077


What is that?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at November 15, 2012 11:48 AM (uoA/0)

197 Neo-Feudalism.

What's so neu about it? Straight up the lord knows exactly what is good for the peasants.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 15, 2012 11:48 AM (5CDzH)

198 182 Ian S,

yup...so the question becomes what price freedom from want?

Nah screw that I'll keep running to the badlands.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:48 AM (LRFds)

199 @172 @180

Entering the US illegally is only an administrative violation
(8 USC 1325)

just saying

Posted by: T. Hunter - let it burn at November 15, 2012 11:48 AM (EZl54)

200 We have very interesting interlocking skills.

Actually, I have very few skills beyond snark and computer programming. I'm okay at wood-work and sort of remember my survival training from the Boy Scouts.

But I'd love to learn some get-my-hands-dirty skills.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 15, 2012 11:48 AM (5DR1j)

201 Also, avoid the shows. They have become a scam. Go to gunbroker.com and bid on one out of state. Have it sent to a local FFL and save on taxes (could be anywhere from $1-200). If you want to, go to the show for recon to see if you like the rife.
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:40 AM (t06LC)

Agree that the shows now are no real bargin but just like any brick and mortar you can get it immediately. Most booths are manned by real brick and mortar stores so you alsohave someone you can go back to to complain. But I agree that I don't but anything from the shows except magazines.

Posted by: polynikes at November 15, 2012 11:49 AM (m2CN7)

202 The Oil Market is anything BUT a Free market... when you hav OPEC and most oil producers in large areas of the world are Government owned???

I submit we create a North American Energy Trade Alliance with Mexico, the US, and Canada.

Oil Exported OUT of that Collective? Taxed at a high level... energy inside that collective? make a base price per gallon, where oil, coal, and Nat Gas, cannot be undercut by international importers....

We need stability in the energy market... and the current where we have massive money playing Vegas with Energy Futures, with other Governments able to manipulate prives through production, is not good for OUR economy.

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 15, 2012 11:49 AM (lZBBB)

203 196 WCL,

a gunsmith that works on contract for County/Local LE agencies.

It took some digging but I found the guy here local.

You know a good cop ask him who his armorer is.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:49 AM (LRFds)

204 Hey, good news! Today's DJIA loss is being held to under three digits. So far today.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 15, 2012 11:49 AM (Hx5uv)

205 Also, avoid the shows. They have become a scam. Go to gunbroker.com and bid on one out of state. Have it sent to a local FFL and save on taxes (could be anywhere from $1-200). If you want to, go to the show for recon to see if you like the rife.
Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:40 AM (t06LC)

TG for gunbroker.


Posted by: cajun carrot at November 15, 2012 11:46 AM (UZQM

Yes, both available.

Posted by: RWC at November 15, 2012 11:50 AM (fWAjv)

206 People actually get paid to come up with this stuff? I'm still waiting for the flying car I was promised. Predicting that far out with rather huge assumptions along the way is laughable.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 11:50 AM (zpqa2)

207 The DOW Limbo continues.

Posted by: Butters at November 15, 2012 11:50 AM (NIZHJ)

208 There are tons of administrative regulations, none
of which are explicitly stated in the constitution. I don't think the
founders could have envisioned much about these, least of all
administrative regulations that set limits on the acceptable amounts of
rat feces in hot dogs. Or the standards for drinking water that we all
have to drink, or food we all have to eat. That's kind of a silly
argument.

Posted by: ConPunk at November 15, 2012 11:43 AM (vvw8n)

And every single one of those federal regulations are unconstitutional as well. And I am glad to see that you think wiping their ass with the Constitution is acceptable.

Perhaps when we get control of all three branches of government with a 60 vote margin in the senate we can declare being a Democrat Treason.
We'll site the Commerce Clause and the "Good 'n Plenty" clause. We'll also call it a tax.

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 11:50 AM (YdQQY)

209 Dow cashout at minus 36 already today.


See, as much as I do not enjoy watching my not so huge nest egg shrink, I would rather have a market based on reality. If burnination is required to achieve that, so be it.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 15, 2012 11:50 AM (VtjlW)

210 @188
Yes. Any semi auto with greater than 16'' barrel length is available to the public. The SR-15 is a top shelf model and typically costs between 1700 and 2000.
A Colt 6920 (16'' civilian M4 clone) can now be had at my local Walmart for 1100.
Prices hover from between 700 to 3000 depending on brand and features.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:51 AM (t06LC)

211 180 172 ConPunk,so is growing this fucking ratfuck double bind from Upton Sinclair's the jungle....regulating excess is not regulating death so far as i am concerned.
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:44 AM (LRFds)

It was the constitutional argument that I thought was inadequate. There's a lot of duly legislated oversights that benefit the populous, almost none of which could ever have been envisioned by the brightest of minds in the 1700's. A lot has to go, of course. But none of it hinges on the Constitution.

Posted by: ConPunk at November 15, 2012 11:51 AM (vvw8n)

212 Hey, good news! Today's DJIA loss is being held to under three digits. So far today.


Posted by: WalrusRex at November 15, 2012 11:49 AM (Hx5uv)



Barry: Maybe I should do a press conference to address that

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 15, 2012 11:51 AM (1Jaio)

213 191 CJ,

No the plants where you remix the shale production into the blends needed to sell the fuel.

I am not super learned but my understanding is Shale is a three phase production process.

Anyway I am in a blind rage Ohio went fucktard.

Cleveland was the original Beaumont Texas.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:51 AM (LRFds)

214 We're facing a point where there may have to be some fairly massive civil disobedience to get this oil and gas out of the ground and to market. If Lisa Jackson makes any move to shut down existing fracking of natural gas. the producersshould tell her to go pound sand, refuse to spend a dime to answer her in court, refuse to pay anyfines, and refuse access to their property to EPA assholes.

Posted by: rockmom at November 15, 2012 11:51 AM (aBlZ1)

215 And VA finally put it to rest that yes, Caucasians and Asians are smarter than the rest.

Posted by: RWC at November 15, 2012 11:52 AM (fWAjv)

216 All of you Gaia haters are just foaming at the mouth at the possibility that you will be able to strip-mine and pump fascist salt water into the shale and burn fossil fuels until the earth dies. But PREsident Obama has seen through all of your machinations and has an answer for all of you!

Wind PowER and SOLAR panels and conservation will take care of all of America and you will be thrown onto the dustbin of history along with your racist energy policy and your three cars. sOLAR TRAINs will rule this country and the rich will FALL!

Posted by: Marty Clogginstein from Brattleboro VT at November 15, 2012 11:52 AM (GsoHv)

217 There are tons of administrative regulations, none
of which are explicitly stated in the constitution. I don't think the
founders could have envisioned much about these, least of all
administrative regulations that set limits on the acceptable amounts of
rat feces in hot dogs. Or the standards for drinking water that we all
have to drink, or food we all have to eat. That's kind of a silly
argument.

Posted by: ConPunk at November 15, 2012 11:43 AM (vvw8n)


That's exactly the fucking point. The Constitution created a govt of limited powers. If it ain't in there, you don't get to do it. Want to do it anyway? They put in this nifty thing called the Amendment Process.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 15, 2012 11:52 AM (da5Wo)

218 Posted by: polynikes at November 15, 2012 11:49 AM (m2CN7)

I've bought my last gun Used. After hunting season tons of people cash out and either upgrade or just give up. Saved a pretty penny. (My Mossberg 835 was $190 including taxes).
The barrel could use some rebluing and there were some scuffs on the stock, but otherwise it's in great condition. (And a well maintained gun will last forever anyway, so it's not like buying a used car where it's lifespan is significantly shortened.)

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at November 15, 2012 11:53 AM (wGOqj)

219 So by WDC thinking, if DJIA lost 120 pts yesterday and only 75pts today....then we have seen a DJIA GAIN of 45pts!!!

Posted by: MythicMeganBanger at November 15, 2012 11:53 AM (uEm7J)

220 End of Nov is when people start looking to lock in their tax loses. The big selloff is probably yet to come.

Posted by: @PurpAv at November 15, 2012 11:53 AM (RRMAj)

221 Straight up the lord knows exactly what is good for the peasants.

It's "Neo" in the same way that Obama's circa-1850 economic ideas are "Forward".

Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 11:54 AM (B/VB5)

222 What scares me most about Obama II is how he's going to shift into overdrive. Just take the economy. Political pressure has kept him from doing some things. But as things continue to tank, he's going to tinker wildly (with our money). Of course this will cause a cascade of tanking.

OK maybe I secretly want this to happen.

LiB

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 15, 2012 11:54 AM (zpqa2)

223 @188

Oh. Yeah. I forgot. Some of you may live in states that would prohibit some of these rifles. Cali, NY, and Jersey. My advice there would be to move.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:54 AM (t06LC)

224 214 Rockmom,

If the companies are smart they will offer food to demonstrate and human shield them.

I will go if we are broke and unemployed.

Time to force the matter I think.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:54 AM (LRFds)

225 2035? You will be a memory by then.

Posted by: The Mayans at November 15, 2012 11:54 AM (NIZHJ)

226 It was the constitutional argument that I thought
was inadequate. There's a lot of duly legislated oversights that benefit
the populous, almost none of which could ever have been envisioned by
the brightest of minds in the 1700's. A lot has to go, of course. But
none of it hinges on the Constitution.

Posted by: ConPunk at November 15, 2012 11:51 AM (vvw8n)

Fuck that shit. If it was needed they should have made their case and passed an amendment and got it ratified.

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 11:54 AM (YdQQY)

227 Texas will survive Obama. Oklahoma will survive Obama. Utah, Wyoming and North Dakota will survive Obama. America will not survive Obama.

Posted by: Minuteman at November 15, 2012 11:54 AM (vpEJA)

228
It was the constitutional argument that I thought

was inadequate. There's a lot of duly legislated oversights that benefit

the populous, almost none of which could ever have been envisioned by

the brightest of minds in the 1700's. A lot has to go, of course. But

none of it hinges on the Constitution.



Posted by: ConPunk at November 15, 2012 11:51 AM (vvw8n)




Ah, I see. Well, we're done here.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 15, 2012 11:55 AM (da5Wo)

229 227 Minuteman,

The United Canadian and American States will survive Obama....fuck New England.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:56 AM (LRFds)

230 Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:54 AM (t06LC)

I just have to SMH when I think of the poor folks in CA who have to deal with a 'bullet button.'

Posted by: RWC at November 15, 2012 11:56 AM (fWAjv)

231 Any news on whether our chocolate rations are going up? Comrades?

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 11:57 AM (jucos)

232 I submit we create a North American Energy Trade Alliance with Mexico, the US, and Canada.

I've long suspected something of that nature will form depending on what occurs in the various shitholes Overthereistan.

I'm too stupid to know exactly how it would work, but it wouldn't surprise me to see that in the coming decades, assuming it all doesn't come crashing down before that. Or because of it.

Posted by: Lurking Canuck at November 15, 2012 11:57 AM (BrQrN)

233 Posted by: Marty Clogginstein from Brattleboro VT at November 15, 2012 11:52 AM (GsoHv)





I picture Mary as a rather larger womyn, having to wedge herself behind the wheel of a Prius that is covered in bumperstickers

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 15, 2012 11:57 AM (1Jaio)

234 Any news on whether our chocolate rations are going up? Comrades?

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 15, 2012 11:57 AM (jucos)

I don't know but I ate my last World's Finest bar from the local school a few days ago. You should see how small they have gotten. So I guess the ration has gone up.

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 11:58 AM (YdQQY)

235 It's "Neo-Feudalism" (a term I use a lot, actually) because while it is the same in function (as you say- the Lords over the Peasants) it is different in form.

The ruling class no longer claims "Divine Right To Rule" they embrace their tyranny ("I won.") The ruling class no longer claims that their property is what makes them the ruling class.

Otherwise it's the same. The more things change, eh?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 15, 2012 11:58 AM (5DR1j)

236 Posted by: tsrblke (work) at November 15, 2012 11:53 AM (wGOqj)
Unfortunately I'm not an expert enough to determine an approximation ofhow many rounds have been run through a barrel , especially if I'm inspecting the gun at a show. That's my only problem buying used.

Posted by: polynikes at November 15, 2012 11:58 AM (m2CN7)

237 #112 Pennsylvania would certainly welcome a new refinery. They went to hell and back to save one in Philly that Sunoco was going to close. Saved 800 jobs. Put one out west where the fracking is going on and folks would be throwing parades. Hasn't been any industry out there since the steel mills shut down.

Posted by: rockmom at November 15, 2012 11:58 AM (aBlZ1)

238 name a single other state that will tolerate new refinery construction?idiots
Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:19 AM (LRFds)
Oklahoma. Easily. We already have multiple refineries and the main USA crude pipeline hub.

Posted by: Grim at November 15, 2012 11:58 AM (gyNYk)

239 What we really need is some car that can switch between the two, though I
don't know how you'd do that, since I would think (at minimum) you'd
need two different fuel tanks.>>

Well they make that kind of kit for generators.

http://www.propane-generators.com/tri-fuel_kits.htm

Posted by: Buzzsaw at November 15, 2012 11:58 AM (tf9Ne)

240 229
227 Minuteman,

The United Canadian and American States will survive Obama....fuck New England.


Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 11:56 AM (LRFds)
Sven, take a map of North America, draw a "U" in it. That's what I personally envision the future of the Continent to be, God willing.

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 11:58 AM (BoE3Z)

241 214 We're facing a point where there may have to be some fairly massive civil disobedience to get this oil and gas out of the ground and to market. If Lisa Jackson makes any move to shut down existing fracking of natural gas. the producersshould tell her to go pound sand, refuse to spend a dime to answer her in court, refuse to pay anyfines, and refuse access to their property to EPA assholes.
===
Don't be ridiculous. That isn't going to happen, for the very simple reason that companys exist any more at the pleasure of the federal government. If anyone pulled a stunt like that, how long before the Board and executive would land in Federal prison?

Posted by: sdavis at November 15, 2012 11:58 AM (njVMI)

242 >>>I believe peak oil refers to the easy oil.. fracking is not easy and
definitely not cheap. When we are willing to spend $50 plus per barrel
just to get it out of the ground, I believe we are past peak oil.

10% profit on $50/barrel is $55 even if overhead made that $65 a barrel that equates to gas prices in the mid to low $2/gallon you may have some meh on this but it would be teh awesome in my book.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 15, 2012 11:59 AM (0q2P7)

243 For those of you interested in picking up a new post election rifle, you can check out AR15.com for more advice. I go there as well. Sameish name.
I don'tknow if ace hasa policy against recommending otherwebsites, if so I apologize andplease remove this post.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 11:59 AM (t06LC)

244 If anyone pulled a stunt like that, how long before the Board and executive would land in Federal prison?

Posted by: sdavis at November 15, 2012 11:58 AM (njVMI)

What if they hired a bunch of guards and shot all the federal agents who came to arrest them?

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 11:59 AM (YdQQY)

245 Any news on whether our chocolate rations are going up? Comrades?Posted by: Truck Monkey

Chocolate? How decadent!

Guards, seize him and find out how he knows of such things!

Posted by: Emperor Barry the Foist at November 15, 2012 12:00 PM (uoA/0)

246 232 Lurking Canuck,

Ponder this...Bush the elder had a gentleman's agreement that there would be en energy production/manpower pool exchange between the big three.

NAFTA was step one, and the big three at the time envisioned an economic fusion in 30 years.

Then Beijing bill and the Berkeley Bunch happened and they can't get past trying to get France's love.

Anyway you're Canadian if say Texas had a provincial 1st and 2d Amendment exempt from Federal oversight but locked within her borders would it matter?

There is a HUGE opportunity here perhaps.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:00 PM (LRFds)

247 new thread

Posted by: Emperor Barry the Foist at November 15, 2012 12:00 PM (uoA/0)

248 What's on my agenda for today?

Posted by: MATH, Dictator for Life at November 15, 2012 12:00 PM (zpqa2)

249 Analysis: US To Become Energy Independent By 2035

But will it be because we produce more energy, or because we have regressed to living in caves and heating with wood fires, like the greenies fervently hope?

Posted by: sherlock at November 15, 2012 12:01 PM (s0hlt)

250 The ruling class no longer claims that their property is what makes them the ruling class.

To tie this back to a favorite Ace meme, they claim they're the ruling class because shut up, that's why.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 15, 2012 12:01 PM (B/VB5)

251 ah, living and breathing document , eh ConPunk?


yo, The Constitution is invalid because Founding Fathers did not include email and vagina maintenance , duh ..
- the American Electorate.

LIB

Posted by: T. Hunter - let it burn at November 15, 2012 12:01 PM (EZl54)

252 Anyone else hear that big sucking sound?

Posted by: Ross Perot at November 15, 2012 12:01 PM (jucos)

253 @236
Take a bullet (BULLET ONLY, not a cartridge) and place it backwards in the muzzle. See how tight it fits. It should stick out.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 12:01 PM (t06LC)

254 244 If anyone pulled a stunt like that, how long before the Board and executive would land in Federal prison?

Posted by: sdavis at November 15, 2012 11:58 AM (njVMI)

What if they hired a bunch of guards and shot all the federal agents who came to arrest them?
==
It has been done before. Ruby Ridge and the Branch Davidian compound ring a bell?

Posted by: sdavis at November 15, 2012 12:01 PM (njVMI)

255 Well they make that kind of kit for generators.

I'm sure such a thing could be done, but I'm not sure it could be made practical for a car.

With your limited space, if you tried to have tried to have two separate tanks, they'd each have to have slightly less than half the capacity of one big tank, so it wouldn't be a choice of which tank to fill, but a requirement to fill both.

On the other hand, I don't think you'd be wanting to mix the fuel types in one tank, either.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 15, 2012 12:01 PM (5DR1j)

256 247
new thread


Posted by: Emperor Barry the Foist at November 15, 2012 12:00 PM (uoA/0)
Don't hurry over too quickly, or the place may capsize!

Posted by: tubal at November 15, 2012 12:02 PM (BoE3Z)

257 241 SDavis,

what if rather than bitching about a retard GOP as middleman we created a Capitalist Council and got the grassroots to let business know directly who believed in freedom and fair wage and "fair" not being "I weant to fuck your business"?

An economic counter OWS?

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:02 PM (LRFds)

258 Posted by: polynikes at November 15, 2012 11:58 AM (m2CN7)

Several well established Gunshops sell used weapons. I personally shop at one in Southern Illinois (ironically). It's a bit of a trek (ok, it's only 1.5 hours) but I road trip there with a friend whenever we want to check out new stuff.
They've been around for 40 or so years so they're not going anywhere, and they warranty the gun for 1 year. Plus they'll buy it back later if I decide to upgrade.
It admittedly requires a fair amount of trust, so you'd need to find someone reputable. (This place does most of its business in used guns.)

Posted by: tsrblke (work) at November 15, 2012 12:02 PM (wGOqj)

259 254 SDavis,

They did not have the right numbers and the right skills or mindset.

Ain't no magic shield saying the Feds here can't be Chechnya'd....

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:03 PM (LRFds)

260 What if they hired a bunch of guards and shot all the federal agents who came to arrest them?

The next set of federales would come with tanks and gunships.

And yeah, Waco and Ruby Ridge should be the examples of what happens when you try that.

Still...a part of me wonders if anyone WOULD try.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 12:05 PM (GQ8sn)

261 240 Tubal,

Exactly my opposition to illegal immigration is based on law and the multi-culti death cult aspect of it.

I ain't got a racist bone in it and frankly fuck Berkeley trapping me in their passion play.

Capitalist mexicans are welcome.

If the left wants a New America so do I.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:05 PM (LRFds)

262 260 EC,

You don't try to kill them as a first resort you try to sway 'em....it is why the AWC alum's wankfest on "The Tea Party Insurgency" was bullshit....

we are not trapped playing their or the Freeper whacko hordes games as first resort.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:06 PM (LRFds)

263 It has been done before. Ruby Ridge and the Branch Davidian compound ring a bell?

Posted by: sdavis at November 15, 2012 12:01 PM (njVMI)

That wasn't a company with a lot of assets. Its easy to shoot women, children, and dogs.

Posted by: Vic at November 15, 2012 12:06 PM (YdQQY)

264 I'm sure such a thing could be done, but I'm not sure it could be made practical for a car.>>

I think you're right on the practicality for a car. I bought a trifuel generator because propane is better for engines that are not regularly used (don't have the problems with old gas and gumming in the carb). But having the gas option may be important in an emergency.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at November 15, 2012 12:07 PM (tf9Ne)

265 263 Vic,

and Waco should have had some IEDs in the trees.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:11 PM (LRFds)

266 You are assuming Obama is still not emperor in 2035!

Posted by: burt at November 15, 2012 12:12 PM (8kEad)

267 262
260 EC,

You don't try to kill them as a first resort you try to
sway 'em....it is why the AWC alum's wankfest on "The Tea Party
Insurgency" was bullshit....

we are not trapped playing their or the Freeper whacko hordes games as first resort.


There was a tv movie called "The Second Civil War" or something like that, with Beau Bridges as a hard right, anti-illegal immigration pol who was also cheating with a Mexican reporter.

Several interesting things happen during the course of the movie:

-I think it was Texas that decides to secede. TX National Guard mobilizes to repel Fed troops coming to "persuade" TX not to.

-NH National Guard comes to TX to help them, also wanting to secede (haha, right!)

-state and federal troops start firing on one another and Civil War II starts

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 12:12 PM (GQ8sn)

268 257 241 SDavis,

what if rather than bitching about a retard GOP as middleman we created a Capitalist Council and got the grassroots to let business know directly who believed in freedom and fair wage and "fair" not being "I weant to fuck your business"?

An economic counter OWS?
==
I hear ya.

Look, my contention is that any true third party movement is going just take to long. It would take several election cycles to get to the point where another party can make a serious challenge for the WH, and that ignores the plethora of third party upstarts that have come and gone in the past with no effect except to elect Democrats (Ross Perot).

The TEA party takeover of the GOP that is still happening from the ground up CAN eventually transform the GOP into a conservative party, but it is going to take some time.

In the mean time, the GOP is still at least helping to put up resistance, AND we are sending true conservatives to Washington.

Nothing is going to be a quick fix, we can't roll back 50 years of decay in 8 years.

Posted by: sdavis at November 15, 2012 12:13 PM (njVMI)

269 267 EC,

I was told by someone I love who is a pretty high connected person....

"tell wife not to worry she'll never be asked to lift rifle to shoulder on Americans it is the National Guard who has to worry."

I am wondering on that.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:14 PM (LRFds)

270 268 SDavis,

ad goal number 1 is survival and trying to hold what we can.

A "Capitalist Coalition" would let business know who to hire.

Make it a Boy Scouts for all adults.

I dunno but I know I ain't going down Ogabe's rabbit hole and am up for ideas.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:16 PM (LRFds)

271 Here's the IMDB link to the movie:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120086/

It was Idaho, not Texas, that wants to secede over immigration issues.

Posted by: EC at November 15, 2012 12:18 PM (GQ8sn)

272 So, people here talking about armed insurrection...

Seriously????!!!

Good lord, we have a fucking CONSTITUTION folks! The founders put the tools into our hands. Throwing it away on another bloodbath of a civil war, or trying to secede is way, way, way worse than anything anyone has done to this country since the Civil War.

Grow up

Posted by: sdavis at November 15, 2012 12:19 PM (njVMI)

273 98
This is an article about the NG car from 2003...



''Honda will sell an appliance, called a "Phill," with each Civic GX
to fill the car's tank from the homeowner's gas line. Phill will cost
$2,000, but tax credits may knock the end-cost down to $1,000. Civic GX
will cost $20,000, about the same as a hybrid gas/electric Civic.



Phill, made by Toronto-based Fuelmaker, requires eight hours to
half-fill a vehicle, good for 100 miles. GX owners also can refill at
approximately 1,300 natural-gas stations nationwide. Filling stations
that dispense compressed natural gas under pressure can fill a tank in
three to five minutes.''

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 15, 2012 11:27 AM (feFL6)

Nice idea, except that it really won't work in widespread use. Natural gas is delivered to homes at extremely low pressure; that's why it takes that compressor (which is what it is) 8 hours to half-fill the tank; pulling vastly more gas out of the line than it was ever intended to provide. How many of those devices can be installed in a neighborhood before the gas delivery system breaks down? It's the same reason that widespread use of electric cars won't be healthy for the electric grid; demand vastly greater than the grid was designed to handle.
Not to mention that that the tax authorities are likely to view home fueling with CNG with a slightly jaundiced eye, oh no!
CNG could be, is, in fact, a fine motor fuel, when delivered, as it should be, from dedicated fueling stations.

Posted by: Alberta Oil Peon at November 15, 2012 12:22 PM (29+x5)

274 I think talk of an armed insurrection is premature.

Will it ever happen? Maybe. I think the more likely scenario is that the debt becomes so crippling and Washington does nothing that states (as in the State governments) just decide that the cost outweighs the benefits and leave like that province of Spain.
By all means, do not stage a Ruby Ridge, and abide by all gun laws.

A civil war is a Last Resort kind of thing only, and should not be welcomed. The worst war to fight is the one at home.
At the same time, I live to close to an uncontrolled border not to be armed. Just last week, drug runners went through the fences on my father in laws property, hid out there for a night (cops wont persue through brush) andstole a car from a neighbor.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 12:28 PM (t06LC)

275 272 SDavis,

what the fuck do you not get that is a last resort but you are dealing with a guy who wants to torch private ability to own wealth and mineral rights.


The US economy is so easy to run it is like cooking mashed fucking potatos.

Downturn?

Okay pour some water into that pot by using unemplyment for 3 months to see what the fuck went wrong and then turn n the burner and add some heat and get some cheap resource exploitation....

now find the next shiny and add the taters tax it to recover the unemployment flow and start over....

for fuck's sakes that is now what they are doing.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:36 PM (LRFds)

276 274 Jolly Roger,

Amen, frankly I think ikf/when finally confronted with "no." Obama will when he finally crosses the Rubicon smile and wave. No shit his goal is not killing us most likly just destroying US power.

He WILL succeed one way or the other.

Guys I don't advocate even secession and am trying to reason out an 4th gen response that will get news attention and help business.

Seriously I am way more inclined to see a "Capitalist Coalition" and just get hired past the fuckers than I am a war.

If I am doomed to be a serf to either blue DC or "evil business" I'll pick the business man every time.

At least he views me as an asset and not a liability.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:39 PM (LRFds)

277 274 Jolly Roger,

more Blue state refugee neighbors and maybe crime will go down in your area.

I am not a nut, I am not but people who want to cower and act as though it will ever come to that we fail at once need reminded that insurgency works.

Frankly I think it will/may be peaceful.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 12:41 PM (LRFds)

278 I understand your frustrations. I too hope it never comes to that. I think there are many black swan events that will occur which will decide the outcome of this nation.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 15, 2012 12:48 PM (t06LC)

279 Hmm. Jumping in semi-late here, just noting this oil thread went less than 45 minutes, into the 160's in the thread count (does that make it muslin?) before OT'ing into various theories of arms and insurrection. Does this speak to our momentary psychology, or should a few of you guys actually find a gun blog?

The one thing John D Rockefeller really paid to have a monopoly on was the Ohio Dome oilfields. There was a bunch of natural gas in there, such a steady pressure that almost none of the oil had to be pumped. A good well would just flow, from all the gas pressure behind it. Rockefeller felt that this field would produce at a steady rate in this way for 100 years, and wanted it more than Texas.

"The people," of course, were sure JD was ripping them off, and along came certain commissions sent by Theo.Roosevelt to force The Standard to pump off all that oil and gas as quickly as it could be made to flow. The resulting gas rush left a very large quantity of paraffin-base petroleum, God's gift, stranded and unrecoverable. The Ohio Dome fields were abandoned.

Use of the simpler parts of fracking technology renders most of that oil reachable. Ohio's is the biggest, but there are many other supposedly played-out fields that only need water or steam to bring the oil up. I don't think lost reserves have been factored in to the estimates yet. It's still down there, fresh and clean. Come and get it.

Now, you're not going to get the amount of heat you need to desalinate western seawater, or steam Ohio crude up, without nuclear piles. Sunlight just does not have the intensity (particularly in northern Ohio). While you've got steam up, you might's well spin up the turbines, get to where we should have been in 1975, and save the gas and oil for things they're best suited for (certainly not blown up the stack of a power plant). You can't edge glassware with electricity. NG is a catalyst in many chemical processes. It's a waste to use that for motor fuel.

Roosevelt was a Republican, of sorts. The guy who said the feds had the authority to set mileage was Nixon, who, last time I looked, was...

Republican progressives have done as much damage as Democrats. Remind the old guard GOP of that, from time to time.

Posted by: comatus at November 15, 2012 12:53 PM (qaVK+)

280 Hope, change, windmills.

Posted by: d_fitz at November 15, 2012 12:59 PM (vu3g7)

281 279 Comatus,

Well stated and cogent.

That said, the issue at hand is whether Obama will allow free en to make use of resources and take his justifiable cut?

The "arms" shit is to be ready for the very real rise in crime/riots and race baiting coming home to rest.

I don't want rebellion and fire in a martial sense, I want a cleansing fire to burn the communard rot out of the American electorate.

YMMV.

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 01:05 PM (LRFds)

282 280 d_fitz,

Thank you president Obama

Posted by: sven10077 at November 15, 2012 01:05 PM (LRFds)

283 I guess I should mention this in passing...

''Compared with gasoline, natural gas emits 70% less carbon monoxide, 87% less nitrogen oxide and 20% less carbon dioxide.''

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 15, 2012 01:59 PM (feFL6)

284 See Porter Stansberry's latest about this . He makes a good case. Could be a gamechanger .

You can access Porter's analysis in written and presentation forms, free of charge, here.

Posted by: Big AL in CHGO at November 15, 2012 02:42 PM (iWo0u)

285 I spent four years working as an oil field paleontologist in the Green River/Uintah Formation in Utah, Colorado and Wyoming. It will take an act of God to get any economically viable quantity of petroleum out of that oil shale. The energy inputs needed are way too high. We might as well start harvesting farts to power our kitchen stoves.

Posted by: Exasperated Expat at November 15, 2012 02:43 PM (gkfSV)

286
Ace-
You're too shy, too shy. Hush hush, eye to eye.

Posted by: Minuteman at November 15, 2012 03:41 PM (1Rw2p)

287 But these are simply problems, and when something's important, and when
people can make money from it (will people still be making money on
investments ten years from now?), problems are overcome.


Problems are merely subsidies looking for a home.

Posted by: Zombie John Gotti at November 15, 2012 04:16 PM (Gkhxf)






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