Team Romney: Actually Project ORCA Was Pretty Darn Successful

I am trying to ascertain just what level of self-delusion is required to make claims like this. My suspicion is that it involves padded rooms and needles. Let's take these one at a time.

But the Romney campaign is denying that there was any “massive failure” of Orca, although the campaign acknowledges the system was down for up to 90 minutes in the morning. Other than that one long outage, they say the system worked, albeit with minor glitches. Ultimately, the campaign had voting data from 91 percent of counties, said Romney digital director Zac Moffat
Okay, first I want to call attention to the deliberate use of weasel words here. They "had voting data from 91 percent of counties". For starters, notice he didn't say precincts. So, if a county has 30 precincts and 1 precinct reports data, then that counts as one of those "91% percent of counties". Second, notice he says they "reported data". That could mean someone entered in a couple voters at 9AM, then left for the day when the system crashed. The point of the project was to provide accurate real-time evolving data so lightning-fast evaluations could be made with regards to shifting campaign resources. Does that sound like that happened here? And spare me the "minor glitches" nonsense, Zac. There were widespread reported problems throughout the day before the entire system came crashing down. These are not "minor glitches"; this was a systematic and organizational failure that brought the entire GOTV effort of a United States Presidential campaign to a screeching halt.
Orca “has no relation to the outcome,” a Romney aide says.
If ORCA had no relation to outcome, then tell me, what the hell was the point of the project? Huge campaign resources were were committed to this project, both in dollars and time by donors and volunteers, and you're going to shrug your shoulders and claim it wasn't all that big a deal after all? This is insulting to everyone who took time out of their schedule or skimmed money from their ever-shrinking paycheck to put their trust in this operation.
“We achieved in a large part what we set out to do in the swing states in terms of our electorate."
Zac, you lost. And apparently, this came as a complete shock to everyone involved in the campaign. This is what you set out to achieve?
The reality is the President did what he said he was going to do. The Obama campaign said that they were going to increase turnout from 2008, and they were able to do that. And that had nothing to do with a reporting system on Election Day.

This is where the bridge to reality collapses under the weight of its own arrogance and incompetence. For the love of God man, Barack Obama banked roughly SIX MILLION LESS VOTES THAN 2008.

Please, if anyone at the RNC is listening, do not let these guys near a major political campaign ever again.

[Update]: BenK informs me that Allegheny County has 1,300 precincts. Tell me more about these fantastical stories of percentage of counties reporting.

Posted by: JohnE. at 08:56 PM



Comments

1 #Winning!

Posted by: garrett at November 09, 2012 08:58 PM (b23ex)

2 Remember this is only an exhibition and not a competition so please, no wagering.

Posted by: DM at November 09, 2012 08:58 PM (LaKlJ)

3
CYA uber alles.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at November 09, 2012 08:58 PM (8cOY0)

4 sigh.

and I was kinda wondering why I didn't hear anything back from the ORCA guys when I submitted my application.

Posted by: chemjeff at November 09, 2012 08:59 PM (5p18q)

5 Sounds like the ORCA folk are the same bright boffins who tried to create Canada's gun registry.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 09, 2012 08:59 PM (xtS2H)

6 As Ive been saying: if there is not an immediate leadership purge in the RNC, then there must be a new party.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 09, 2012 08:59 PM (KZ5KD)

7 OT

The UN continues to parody itself.

(Link in nick.)

Posted by: logprof at November 09, 2012 09:00 PM (jKE+Z)

8 In perspective, why do responsible adults need someone to tell them to go vote? If that is the real problem in this country then we are doomed beyond doom.

Posted by: misty at November 09, 2012 09:00 PM (qY4rL)

9
Excellent points John E. But if the side bar story regarding the massive Ohio voting fraud is true (and who can doubt it was not only true, but also a national phenomenon), what does it matter? We are content to let the Dems fabricate from thin air as many votes as they want, while disenfranchising the Republicans.

Politics, in terms of "elections," is over. The "let's burn it all down now" crowd has finallywon me over. I used to think a nice, long, slow decline would be OK, but obviously following that path means I'll get to see all my rights taken and my property stolen.

Posted by: Reactionary at November 09, 2012 09:01 PM (jfeoD)

10 okay, new party means 8+ more years of Democrat party dominance while the two other fractured parties get their shit together.

that's not the answer.

the answer is to change RNC from the ground up. We should be active in our local Republican party HQ doing the things that we think they ought to do.

2014 will be a proving ground of new ideas for how to get republicans elected.

Posted by: chemjeff at November 09, 2012 09:01 PM (5p18q)

11 Excuse me, not RNC. All leadership. House. Senate. All the various committees.

All the insiders. All the consultants.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 09, 2012 09:01 PM (KZ5KD)

12 I am trying to ascertain just what level of self-delusion is required to make claims like this

----------------



You mean like the claim I just got from the RNC fundraiser who just now called my house to ask for money for the next election cycle, and his opening statement was:



"WE ACCOMPLISHED MOST OF OUR MAJOR GOALS THIS PAST TUESDAY"



You mean claims like that ???

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 09, 2012 09:01 PM (P6QsQ)

13 8 OT

The UN continues to parody itself.

(Link in nick.)
Posted by: logprof at November 09, 2012 09:00 PM (jKE+Z)

__________________

OMG--

I just can't take any more.

Posted by: tasker at November 09, 2012 09:02 PM (r2PLg)

14 I'd better not get any more emails from people.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, raving lunatic about Benghazi at November 09, 2012 09:02 PM (baL2B)

15 In perspective, why do responsible adults need someone to tell them to go vote?

because someone needs to remind them that after The View and Dr. Phil are over, there are other tasks that ought to be accomplished for the day

Posted by: chemjeff at November 09, 2012 09:03 PM (5p18q)

16 This is the Uber Competent Organization we were led to believe Rombley had??



Guys hired by a successful businessman who want to argue against the fucking result???



The GOP needs an enema.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 09, 2012 09:03 PM (8JpQH)

17 They should move the UN to Khartoum.

Posted by: garrett at November 09, 2012 09:03 PM (b23ex)

18 This is like the guy who claims to have won the bar fight by using his face to break the other guy's fist.

Posted by: Nighthawk at November 09, 2012 09:03 PM (n1x7a)

19
6
I think the chief purpose of the Tea Party right now is to go after entrenched RINO establishment idiots with a vengeance.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at November 09, 2012 09:05 PM (8cOY0)

20 What's gnu about the UNHRC? Libya one time lead it.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 09, 2012 09:05 PM (xtS2H)

21 Chemjeff,

We don't care. That's the same argument the pro-sodomy DC insider RINOs used to foist McCain and Romney on us. "but, electability!"

We don't care. The inside the beltway crowd is the problem. They seek rent from us and fresh boys to rape, and each election their Progressive Agenda is advanced further.

The rot is a moral rot. It must be cut out, or the patient will be lost. SoCon leadership now or new party. Period.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 09, 2012 09:05 PM (KZ5KD)

22 JohnE,

Why exactly does this info need t be sent back to HQ in the first place? Can't you just equip and entrust each precinct to do the job on their own?

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 09, 2012 09:05 PM (zrpqj)

23 Serious Cat,

That was the whole point of the project. To "centralize it".

Y'know, small government style.

Posted by: JohnE. at November 09, 2012 09:06 PM (nRTou)

24 Ok, what the heck is that photo on Drudge of the back of Barky's head supposed to mean? And who is that person holding his head? Is he bowing down to the dead North Korean? Who is that?

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, raving lunatic about Benghazi at November 09, 2012 09:06 PM (baL2B)

25 Not bad. I got second place.

Posted by: Gen. George Custer at November 09, 2012 09:07 PM (FcR7P)

26 Listen you stupid loony extremists, what do you want us to do? Nominate someone who's unelectable?

Posted by: entropy at November 09, 2012 09:07 PM (YUttk)

27 25 - Yeah, that pic is weird.

Posted by: Buddy at November 09, 2012 09:07 PM (lpAEc)

28
Posted by: Hopeless at November 09, 2012 09:05 PM (KZ5KD)

the point is, the RNC is hollow enough that it can be taken over without going through the whole bother of forming an entirely new party.
look, we've had third parties for a while now - Constitution Party, Libertarian Party, Green Party - and they don't win shit. It's D vs. R for the foreseeable future.

Posted by: chemjeff at November 09, 2012 09:07 PM (5p18q)

29 Battle of the deep sea.


http://ow.ly/1PtPiW

Posted by: geoffb at November 09, 2012 09:07 PM (d3wbb)

30 So basically we all got played by a giant money making pyramid scheme under the guise of the GOP. Fucking wonderful.

Posted by: Doc at November 09, 2012 09:08 PM (+Mafp)

31 Ok, what the heck is that photo on Drudge of the back of Barky's head supposed to mean?

Helen Thomas is about to score a titty dunk.

Posted by: t-bird at November 09, 2012 09:08 PM (FcR7P)

32 My take: Someone screwed the pooch on the software, I would not be surprised if there was outright fraud in reporting the viability of the program and someone is trying to fend off uh oh we're gonna get sued.



Posted by: alexthechick at November 09, 2012 09:09 PM (Gk3SS)

33 29,

Not after the Romney convention rule change. Further, the brand is ruined because the Beltway Boy Lovers haven't bothered fighting back against leftist smears for decades.

Hint: the reason why is because they share the same agenda.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 09, 2012 09:09 PM (KZ5KD)

34 look, we've had third parties for a while now - Constitution Party, Libertarian Party, Green Party - and they don't win shit. It's D vs. R for the foreseeable future.
Posted by: chemjeff at November 09, 2012 09:07 PM (5p18q)

Worse yet, they split the conservative vote and give us Progressive presidents:

IE Bull Moose Party == President Woodrow Wilson

Posted by: Nighthawk at November 09, 2012 09:09 PM (n1x7a)

35 Yeah, but.

99+% Obama votes in Philadelphia districts, 100% Obama votes in Cleveland districts?

What's ORCA suppposed to do to match that "turnout"?

(And god knows what went on in Virginia-- Jim "father of Pat" Moran's state-- and Florida, where ballots were entered and you couldn't verify whether the machine registered your vote for Romney or Obama).

Just saying. I'm all for constructively criticizing the deficiencies of the Romney campaign.

But someone has to do something reform the integrity of VOTING per se in this country. When UN inspectors are agog at our voting (lack of) standards, something is very wrong.


Posted by: lael at November 09, 2012 09:09 PM (tUcg9)

36 Someone could post--

Biden to head the CIA--!

and...I'd believe it--at this point.

Posted by: tasker at November 09, 2012 09:10 PM (r2PLg)

37
ORCA...No. This wha whatever kind of Dead whale beached in OR, IIRC. Someone had the smart idea to blow it up. Stinking, decaying whale bits, that's what ORCA was.
If someone posts the video, thanks...to angry to search.

Posted by: Tantorius Maximus at November 09, 2012 09:10 PM (ewCfS)

38
The election is over Mr. Romney. Enough of the rehash. Time to move on.

Posted by: YIKES! at November 09, 2012 09:10 PM (1PE/J)

39 "Please, if anyone at the RNC is listening, do not let these guys near a major political campaign ever again."


Clint Eastwood has some folksy wisdom for them.

Posted by: Dept. of Accuracy Dept. at November 09, 2012 09:10 PM (BAnPT)

40 re: "WE ACCOMPLISHED MOST OF OUR MAJOR GOALS THIS PAST TUESDAY"

Well, they passed out a billion and a half or so Republican voter dollars to their buddies, and they filched another hundred million off that wrestling lady.

Look, they couldn't lose *every* race—Texans and Kentuckians are a hard sell!—but they really tried, and they'll lose more next time. Boehner's hard at work on it already. Day one, he's already out slappin' your bag around.

And he'll slap it as hard as he can, every day, until the job is done. SEND MONEYS

Posted by: oblig. at November 09, 2012 09:11 PM (cePv8)

41 the answer is to change RNC from the ground up. We should be active in
our local Republican party HQ doing the things that we think they ought
to do.

2014 will be a proving ground of new ideas for how to get republicans elected.


I've been to the local GOP meeting where I live.

It was more c#ntish than the Junior High Girl's locker room.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at November 09, 2012 09:12 PM (kqqGm)

42 So ORCA seems to have fallen victim to GIGO?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 09, 2012 09:12 PM (xtS2H)

43 The most inept thing is that Romney's people actually thought that they had won.

I work in the policy realm, and we win some and we lose some, but I know when I am winning and when I am losing.

Whale:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xBgThvB_IDQ

Posted by: Bread And Circuses at November 09, 2012 09:12 PM (Hu/Da)

44 So...we were the SCOAMFs all along?

How M. Night Shyamalan-ian.

Posted by: El Kabong at November 09, 2012 09:13 PM (0BPlb)

45 16 because someone needs to remind them that after The View and Dr. Phil are over, there are other tasks that ought to be accomplished for the day

Posted by: chemjeff at November 09, 2012 09:03 PM (5p18q)




You forgot Jersey Shore, 16 and Pregnant and Honey Boo Boo

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 09, 2012 09:13 PM (GEICT)

46 I'm curious... is all of our voting history in the public domain? Is there a database somewhere that records my first record of voting by absentee in Howard Co, MD... sent by mail from an Ohio zipcode?

Also, do they know the sex of each voter?

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 09, 2012 09:13 PM (zrpqj)

47 Sheesh, Between reading this story and the one at Red State, I am almost glad Rmoney didn't win. Almost. The burning was inevitable, either, or.

Posted by: Lizabth at November 09, 2012 09:14 PM (JZBti)

48 O/T, but there's something smoulderingly sexy about Liz Cheney.

Posted by: Ombudsman at November 09, 2012 09:15 PM (HqXYa)

49 Worse yet, they split the conservative vote and give us Progressive presidents

Well then, let's get that transgenered illegal from Tijuana that mama was talking about and start splitting the damn Dem vote.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 09, 2012 09:15 PM (2rMmy)

50 I think our obsessing about ORCA is playing right into the MSM/TeamObama's hand here --why not concentrate our efforts questioning those precincts where Obama got 100% of the vote and those that had more then 100% turnout --oh, the fact that the entire election turned on 314,000 votes right where Obama needed them is pretty interesting as well.
The contrast between Obama's actions, demeanor and crowd size to Romney's those last few weeks wasn't some optical illusion that a tech fail explains.
YMMV.

Posted by: angienc at November 09, 2012 09:15 PM (w3JGl)

51 It was more c#ntish than the Junior High Girl's locker room.


THIS. Same experience I had.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 09, 2012 09:15 PM (GEICT)

52 i have an unbelievably difficult time believing that allegheny county (pittsburgh city) is a blue dot amongst metro pittsburgh which is awash in RED...EVERY election. it really just doesnt add up to me.

now philly? yeah...those guys are retarded.

Posted by: laughing at neck braces at November 09, 2012 09:16 PM (nVqtU)

53 "Helen Thomas is about to score a titty dunk.




Posted by: t-bird at November 09, 2012 09:08 PM (FcR7P) "


I'm not sure what that even means, nor am I certain how I can be laughing as hard as I am while being completely repulsed by the thought.

These are strange times indeed.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 09, 2012 09:16 PM (8JpQH)

54 23 JohnE,Why exactly does this info need t be sent back to HQ in the first place? Can't you just equip and entrust each precinct to do the job on their own?
Posted by: Serious Cat at November 09, 2012 09:05 PM (zrpqj)


Supposedly they would use the information to allocate resources on larger levels - county or state, possibly even nation-wide - than precinct if the situation warranted. I did note the irony of the party of capitalism making the GOTV vote centralized. I also wondered how well they had tested everything, and figured that they must know what they were doing - competence and all that - and that the disorganization I saw was the normal consequence of coordinating several disparate groups while maintaining operational security.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 09, 2012 09:16 PM (DeRsD)

55 I AM sorry those Bostonians besmirched that nice Paul Ryan with this foolishness. The MATH witch. Honestly. It's surreal.

Posted by: Lizabth at November 09, 2012 09:16 PM (JZBti)

56 Posted by: Ombudsman at November 09, 2012 09:15 PM (HqXYa)


I had forgotten about Ms Liz.


Liz Cheney and Allen West would make an unbelievably awesome team.

We ain't gonna win anyway, may as well wreak havoc as we go down.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 09, 2012 09:17 PM (2rMmy)

57 42,

I live in Cali. Our local FOP is horrific.

Further, a lot of folks don't realize that the GOP brand is toxic.

This is not an exaggeration: children are literally taught in Cali schools that republicans are racist, and that only racist vote Republican. This occurs nationwide. Two generations of children have been taught this in school, and them have it reinforced in college.

The brand is ruined. And news flash: we're already not winning elections.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 09, 2012 09:17 PM (5g2Fy)

58 I understand ORCA was developed by Microsoft. If this is true when and what first revision product has worked like advertised out of the Box from Microsoft.

This is just sad ORCA the Blotted Microsoft beached whale that exploded on Romney.

Posted by: Sanmon at November 09, 2012 09:17 PM (Ct0hX)

59 Exactly what good does it do to go on and on about this?

Posted by: Walkers! at November 09, 2012 09:17 PM (YEG/L)

60 I mean, Helen Thomas' titty dunk is probably funnier than BCochran's anal fissures.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 09, 2012 09:17 PM (8JpQH)

61 Your fancy schmanzty system got you fewer Mormon votes for your fucking Mormon candidate than a Born Again Christian got eight years ago.



EPIC FAIL!!!!

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 09, 2012 09:18 PM (0fxcV)

62 Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 09, 2012 09:17 PM (8JpQH)



So very, very hurtful.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 09, 2012 09:19 PM (GEICT)

63 It was more c#ntish than the Junior High Girl's locker room.





THIS. Same experience I had.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 09, 2012 09:15

Mine was a pack of religious loons. Not that all religious people are loons but these particular people only cared about one issue and were excluding all other platform proposals if they didn't have some Pro-Life angle.

Posted by: Dept. of Accuracy Dept. at November 09, 2012 09:19 PM (BAnPT)

64 What was the expected gain from ORCA? Seems to me that trying to convince someone who didn't plan on voting (!) to leave work and fight traffic to get back home (that's key. We've got long commutes) to find his precinct and vote is a loser.

Posted by: t-bird at November 09, 2012 09:19 PM (FcR7P)

65 I'm curious... is all of our voting history in the
public domain? Is there a database somewhere that records my first
record of voting by absentee in Howard Co, MD... sent by mail from an
Ohio zipcode?

Also, do they know the sex of each voter?


Posted by: Serious Cat

********************************************

Yes to first question and partial yes to second question (I don't think they keep track of the zip code from where you mailed your absentee ballot).
As to third they have your name but not your sex -- 9 times out of 10 it's an easy guess (well, at least before people started giving their kids the "cool" soap actor names you see nowadays).

Posted by: angienc at November 09, 2012 09:19 PM (w3JGl)

66 I wonder if Obama hired those Anonymous guys to hack the election. Or at least those assholes at Microsoft, they seem to to know how to code things to crash and lose data.

Posted by: Blue Falcon in Boston at November 09, 2012 09:20 PM (KCvsd)

67 Nothing new - they are saying their plans were correct, but the battlefield changed. Self-serving rationalization is not new, it is as old as humanity. If anyone involved actually gives measured criticism of anything - including his or her assessments of the plan - that will be something unusual. And by "measured criticism" I mean an analysis of 'this is what we saw, this was our research, and this is what we planned, this is what we did; and this what happened.' And staying cold and unemotional about something that is neither while making that assessment.

Of course, a presidential election can only be so measured because it is the rarest of elections, and every four years; a lot changes and only a few things can carry over. And it is the only national election in the USA. All other elections are state-wide or local, and beyond broad generalities these elections are not applicable at all to presidential campaigns.

Posted by: Mikey NTH -Channeling Ron Burgundy at November 09, 2012 09:20 PM (gmoEG)

68 Exactly what good does it do to go on and on about this?

Posted by: Walkers! at November 09, 2012 09:17 PM (YEG/L)

------------
I like facts.

I like when mistakes are pointed out so I don't make them again.
I like when strategies are shown to be faulty so I don't use them again.
I like to know what works and what doesn't when little stuff like life and death is hanging in the balance.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 09, 2012 09:20 PM (P6QsQ)

69 Not after the Romney convention rule change. Further, the brand is ruined because the Beltway Boy Lovers haven't bothered fighting back against leftist smears for decades. Hint: the reason why is because they share the same agenda.

^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And for the record, I didn't give a dime to any of them. I knew they'd waste it and I've been out of work for about two years. The only politician I've ever given $$ to was Sarah Palin back in '09 for her pac. Did you know she sends hand-written thank you's?

Posted by: RushBabe at November 09, 2012 09:20 PM (tQHzJ)

70 the point is, the RNC is hollow enough that it can be taken over without going through the whole bother of forming an entirely new party.


It also comes with a metric fuckton of baggage, 0 credibility, and decades worth of negative association built into the cake.


Plus you have to deal with the right wing welfare queens and entrenched interests sabotaging it from within.

Posted by: entropy at November 09, 2012 09:20 PM (YUttk)

71 How hard is this.....Karl Rove could do it.

And really, if anyone has ever spent a term or two as a precint committeperson, you understand the process. Your ass sits in a god damn chair at the election site all day, you strike off the names who show up. Every 2 hours, someone comes by from the county, gets your list and calls those that are not stricken.

It has only fucking worked for some 200 years.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 09, 2012 09:21 PM (OWjjx)

72 51,

It takes a bully pulpit to do that. And we've got Mitch McConnell as our voice to the masses.

See my above comments on leadership purges.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 09, 2012 09:21 PM (5g2Fy)

73 I understand ORCA was developed by Microsoft.

Great. Gotta wait until 2020 for version 3, the first one that works.

Posted by: t-bird at November 09, 2012 09:21 PM (FcR7P)

74 Mine was a pack of religious loons. Not that all religious people are loons but these particular people only cared about one issue and were excluding all other platform proposals if they didn't have some Pro-Life angle.


All mine did was yell at each other. Oh, and they insisted that all members take a "loyalty oath." They wanted you to swear that no matter what, if there was a R running, you would vote for them.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 09, 2012 09:22 PM (GEICT)

75 Does anyone remember the precint project of two years ago.......yea, time to revisit that.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 09, 2012 09:23 PM (OWjjx)

76 #6: Hopeless.

No one is stopping you. Go - form your new party. Show us what the party of despair is capable of.

Go on. Get off the 'net and do what your name implies.

Posted by: Mikey NTH -Channeling Ron Burgundy at November 09, 2012 09:24 PM (gmoEG)

77
I'm not getting on the bash Romney bandwagon. The bottom line is that he didn't get the votes because there were apparently a lot of stupid Republicans that didn't vote.

What is it they say about fixing stupid?

I'm still in shock.

Posted by: Marmo at November 09, 2012 09:25 PM (pcgW1)

78 I like facts.

I like when mistakes are pointed out so I don't make them again.
I like when strategies are shown to be faulty so I don't use them again.
I like to know what works and what doesn't when little stuff like life and death is hanging in the balance.



I like not to have someone piss on my head and tell me it's raining.


Look, it was rammed down our throats, including by the most vocal of the Romney supporters here, that Romney was the very best choice in no small part because of his competence. We are now discovering that the campaign was utterly, totally and horrifically incompetent regarding the single most important part of the campaign. This calls into question every single thing we were asked to believe by the RNC and by the party elites. It is completely fair to point this out and to point out the unwillingness of those involved to do the bare minimum of evaluation and reflection.


The next time that the base is asked to believe that the RNC knows what it's doing, it is perfectly fair to point to this and say "I'm not The Chicken, you're not doing that to me".

Posted by: alexthechick at November 09, 2012 09:25 PM (Gk3SS)

79 What kills me is that the GOP lost to an idiot like Obama not once, but twice. The RNC had better be paying some stat gurus, DB geniuses, social networking whiz kids, and competent political staffers right now.

And the RNC should inform all the potential POTUS candidates that yes, you will be using this team for your election run.

We can't have type of ORCA failure again.

I can't handle losing to creepy liberals like Messina again.

Posted by: Hoi Polloi Wingnutia at November 09, 2012 09:26 PM (OPWiP)

80 In comparison to Orca:

Last Thursday, CAC called his volunteers in, and asked for help with his data collection. He described what he wanted and I saw what amounted to a huge data ingress issue, not something that tweeting and transcribing would allow.

A few of us suggested Google Docs spreadsheets, and enabled everyone to edit them.

So Friday night and Saturday, we set about creating spreadsheets. I had a design, but RW's design was better for presidential and senate, so we went with it.

JS asked me to template up a house after I was not happy with any of the designs, so we did that. I set about to linking the sheets together. By Sunday night, we had a system that sort of functioned.

Monday we checked it. Twisted it. Played with it. RW and JS did a wonderful job of making everything consistent. I tried to fix bugs of my own and others making.

Tuesday night at 6pm it went live. Something like 100 volunteers, distributed nationally, with web browsers, editing documents in parallel. With results propagating upwards to summary sheets.

This half assed seat of the pants engineering project was more fucking successful than ORCA. If you want, cut and paste this message to the people at the RNC and the idiots who ran that disasterous campaign. I am @joeinmi if anyone at the RNC wants to talk about how to do this in the future, so we can get an infinitely better data collection.

And now, as elections have consequences, we get to deal with the consequences, and they ain't pretty.

Posted by: Joe in MI at November 09, 2012 09:26 PM (3R8wQ)

81 OT: I have had about all I can handle from Pat Caddell. His whole schtick is now simple an "I told you so guy." If you don't run a campaign exactly like Pat Caddell would run a campaign, which if you'll recall, is a losing campaign (see George McGovern), then he takes to trashing you. Just heard him call Paul Ryan a "self-serving nerd." Said Republicans hate hispanics. And on and on. This is what he does now. When a campaign loses, he gets his horn and starts blowing telling the world how right he was and how terrible everyone else is at running campaigns.

Again, this is the man that ran the McGovern campaign and then worked on the Carter re-election campaign. And everyone else is an idiot.

Posted by: Rich at November 09, 2012 09:26 PM (arczc)

82 Supposedly they would use the information to allocate resources on larger levels - county or state, possibly even nation-wide - than precinct if the situation warranted. I did note the irony of the party of capitalism making the GOTV vote centralized. I also wondered how well they had tested everything, and figured that they must know what they were doing - competence and all that - and that the disorganization I saw was the normal consequence of coordinating several disparate groups while maintaining operational security.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 09, 2012 09:16 PM (DeRsD)

Hmmm... ok, but the fact that election day is a pretty hectic event, and only a 12 hour window of polls being open, I don't know how a command center is supposed to help out. You risk local leaders waiting around for orders and direction from HQ when they should take the initiative themselves and send volunteers out to pick up our folks and start dialing numbers.

Anyways, imagine if all this time and money went into maximizing our early vote numbers? I know in my county, 33% of the Dems early voted while 20% of Republicans used that option.

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 09, 2012 09:27 PM (zrpqj)

83 Look, I understand that a third party is an extremely risky and most probably a losing proposition, but this business of- oh no, we have to work from within the party, the Republican Party is our only hope is really getting tiresome. Election after election we are told to shut up; thatwe have to have a moderate in order to attract the independents and election after election we get our asses handed to us, andwe end up with people like Boehner, McCain, Graham etc etc ad nauseum. When does it stop? When will enough grass-rooteconservatives say enough is enough and take a chance with a 3rd party. 3 million fewer Republicans voted in this election than in 2008, and all our party's intelligentsia is cry and weep and wring their hands because OH NOES the Hispanics don't like us!

Posted by: DaveinNC at November 09, 2012 09:27 PM (nuK0Q)

84 Forget Washington. Its time to take back the states and create state control, as a prelude to dropping the reddest states out of the Union and starting again. We live in a country filled with damaged goods. All we can do is a strategic retreat and regrouping, while the zombies eat each other. It won't be pretty, but it must be done.

Posted by: deadite at November 09, 2012 09:27 PM (8YVZT)

85 And the RNC should inform all the potential POTUS candidates that yes, you will be using this team for your election run.

I thought the reason we took Rince Priebus out of Wisconsin was that he knew GOTV. Was he part of the Romney team, or did they just not use him?

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at November 09, 2012 09:28 PM (2v+KF)

86 I told you we were going to need a bigger boat.

Posted by: Sheriff Martin Brody at November 09, 2012 09:28 PM (WbGW2)

87 The system worked.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 09, 2012 09:28 PM (6JMZR)

88 >>>All mine did was yell at each other. Oh, and they insisted that all members take a "loyalty oath." They wanted you to swear that no matter what, if there was a R running, you would vote for them.

All mine wanted to do was talk about destroying the GOP and elevating the Tea Party in it's stead. Since most of them were local, older Tea Partiers from 2010.

I'm getting the sense here that the local level GOP is very tribalistic, and splitting it into multiple parties might not be that hard.

Posted by: El Kabong at November 09, 2012 09:28 PM (0BPlb)

89 I like not to have someone piss on my head and tell me it's raining.



Note to Horde, AtC draws the line at watersports.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 09, 2012 09:29 PM (GEICT)

90 I'm no political junkie, and I get that ORCA may have been poorly set up pre- tested and used.

I also get there is a major need for answers for this loss.

But do that many voters on the Right need to be reminded that it's Tuesday, election day, and our ticket is Romney/Ryan in the single biggest election in decades?

Wrong tree barking, even if there is a lot of truth to the ORCA failings.

There is apparently more than one type of delusion out there.

Posted by: ontherocks at November 09, 2012 09:29 PM (aZ6ew)

91 “We achieved in a large part what we set out to do in the swing states in terms of our electorate."

Heh. That sounds eerily like the call mama winger got earlier this evening.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at November 09, 2012 09:29 PM (vbh31)

92 What does it matter? The election should not have been close.

I was barely old enough to notice but back in 1972 it seemed to me a lot of people had utter contempt for Richard Nixon. Yet it was a landslide victory over McGovern, because McGovern was just that awful. Yet, that was in a day with just three in the bag networks, no cable outlets, no web. And talk about Free Stuff, McGovern wanted to give a minimum wage salary to anyone with a heartbeat! I'm not kidding. It was part of his platform.

In 1984 Reagan trounced Mondale. Not as severely as Nixon over McGovern but Mondale didn't have to replace his VP due to a history of ECT. Again, the information outlets were very limited and the incumbent President was openly loathed and mocked by a large portion of the public.

Yet, when the time came to go to the polls, Americans opted for adult supervision over unworkable idealism.

We are obviously not the same people who voted in those elections. That is the problem that looms above all others. If you cannot convey to a strong majority of voters why Obama's policies are catastrophically bad, nothing else matters.

Posted by: epobirs at November 09, 2012 09:29 PM (kcfmt)

93 Truth is, I never sobered up after the GOP convention.

Last two months we've been blowing all your donations on nothing but the finest Scotch and imported Colombian prostitutes.

Posted by: Rince Priebus at November 09, 2012 09:30 PM (WbGW2)

94 I thought the reason we took Rince Priebus out of
Wisconsin was that he knew GOTV. Was he part of the Romney team, or did
they just not use him?-----------
The Romney team decided not to use his model from what I understand. They decided to use ORCA instead.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 09, 2012 09:30 PM (P6QsQ)

95 Do I have to remind people that Romney's GOP primary competitors "really" had their shit together-- like, failing to get signatures in time to appear on the ballot, or get their votes to count.

So, um, yeah. Criticize Romney all you want, but counterfactually claiming any of his GOP primary competitors would have had a better, more efficient, more powerful organization to meet the Obama machine?

You're dreaming.

Posted by: lael at November 09, 2012 09:30 PM (tUcg9)

96 Did someone call me?

Posted by: Candy Crowley at November 09, 2012 09:30 PM (6JMZR)

97 Weaseling is McCainesque in its depth and scope.

Once again, we'll get these same losers managing the campaign of the 2016 Repub. candidate and they will be blameless as well.

Posted by: Pyro Pete at November 09, 2012 09:30 PM (R0JuT)

98 I was barely old enough to notice but back in 1972 it seemed to me a lot of people had utter contempt for Richard Nixon. Yet it was a landslide victory over McGovern, because McGovern was just that awful

-------

Hey, just reinforces my above post about Pat Caddell being the last fucking guy to give campaign advice.

Posted by: Rich at November 09, 2012 09:30 PM (arczc)

99
Ashley Judd, whacko marxist actress, wants to run in 2014 against McConnell.

ObamalostKY by 25 points in a good Dem year

Posted by: Jsck J at November 09, 2012 09:30 PM (neP+W)

100 @79

Alex, Romney seemed competent because of the field he was against.

Anyone really believe Newt, or Santorum, or Bachman, or Cain would have had a different result........nope.

I have been rather dour here myself, so I now bring you some hope.
2012 is the last year we have to pay for the GOP wipeouts in 2006 and 2008.

Wipeouts decimate your bench. You lose lots of folks whocould be strong future candidates.

2010 helped replinish the bench.
Compare a potential 2016 field to the last two.....Rubio, Ryan, Jindal, McDonnell, Hawley.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 09, 2012 09:31 PM (OWjjx)

101
Anyone know the politics of the ORCA consultants?
It would be interesting to know how much money they made.
Too bad Romney wasn't actively involved in that part of his campaign. He got schnookered. We got screwed, are getting screwed and will continue to get screwed. The depth and breadth of the screwing is almost boundless.

Posted by: Justamom at November 09, 2012 09:31 PM (Sptt8)

102 O/T, but there's something smoulderingly sexy about Liz Cheney.


Posted by: Ombudsman at November 09, 2012 09:15 PM (HqXYa)

I've always been attracted to brilliant women. Not Cal-Berkley Womyn's Studies majors . I mean real, assertive, conservative, let's-mix-it-up-is-that-all-you-got? ladies like Liz, Coulter, Malkin. I love women. Let's admit that women are the superior gender, and get them elected

Posted by: Ombudsman at November 09, 2012 09:31 PM (HqXYa)

103 So did Team Romney ever reach out to the conservative software development community for help in designing, writing and testing ORCA?

Posted by: Some Moron at November 09, 2012 09:31 PM (AUeaU)

104 Note to Horde, AtC draws the line at watersports.


Gah. Yes, yes, I do.


See! I do, in fact, have standards.

Posted by: alexthechick at November 09, 2012 09:32 PM (Gk3SS)

105
99. Rich, Nixon used the Obama playbook in 1972. He destroyed all the strong Dem conteneders with negative ads early to get McGovern..
Nixon played dirty. He would have won in 2012

Posted by: Jsck J at November 09, 2012 09:32 PM (neP+W)

106 I guess I might as well point out how many people thought it was stupid to try and kick Obama off the ballot by forcing him to show proof of Natural born citizenship.


I said four years ago that ought to be our number one effort. It wouldn't have cost nearly as much as just a little of the money they spent on advertising, and it might have worked!

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 09:32 PM (R9579)

107 I've been to the local GOP meeting where I live.

It was more c#ntish than the Junior High Girl's locker room.


Posted by: John P. Squibob at November 09, 2012 09:12 PM (kqqGm)

well, then it's up to us to change it.

Posted by: chemjeff at November 09, 2012 09:33 PM (d/5qf)

108 Geebers, how do the Repubs. convince high dollar donors to give in 2016 after they pissed away a billion dollars only to lose to the most beatable incumbent since Carter.

Posted by: Pyro Pete at November 09, 2012 09:33 PM (R0JuT)

109 "Let's admit that women are the superior gender, and get them elected"

I think the Dems have you beat on that one.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 09, 2012 09:33 PM (Td9D+)

110 86,

Word is team Romney shut out the RNC, and Romney decided to use a lot of staff from his Massachusets Governor days.

The Catholics found out decades ago how liberals operate. They infiltrate you, and run your main opposition. Republicans are just now catchingon.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 09, 2012 09:33 PM (cRzgp)

111 76
Does anyone remember the precint project of two years ago.......yea, time to revisit that.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 09, 2012 09:23 PM (OWjjx)


????

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 09, 2012 09:34 PM (zrpqj)

112 Me? I am glad that this is over and I can really concentrate now on other things. I was so taken with politics I let other things slide and this week I finally took care of a lot of things. And I ended the week looking at everything and said "I am all caught up. I haven't been all caught up in months. It is all done and I can go into the weekend without thinking about something back there that I should do but haven't because of politics."

Sounds like a warning, to me at least.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Huh, the world didn't end yet at November 09, 2012 09:34 PM (gmoEG)

113 2010 helped replinish the bench.
Compare a potential 2016 field to the last two.....Rubio, Ryan, Jindal, McDonnell, Hawley.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 09, 2012 09:31 PM (OWjjx)




Crazy thought? Demint?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 09, 2012 09:34 PM (GEICT)

114 Make a pile of money to be incompetent, seems to be a viral infection amongst anyone associated with anything regarding governing doings.

Posted by: rightlysouthern(aim low boys,theys ridin ponies) at November 09, 2012 09:34 PM (O2Jzh)

115 Priebus is fine. give him another try in 2014. He saved Walker during the recall and kept the House

Posted by: Jsck J at November 09, 2012 09:34 PM (neP+W)

116 Nixon played dirty. He would have won in 2012

Posted by: Jsck J at November 09, 2012 09:32 PM (neP+W)
No he wouldn't have. The Cocksucking Media would have screwed him the way they've screwed all of our candidates.
As a matter of fact, it was the media that got Richard Nixon.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 09:34 PM (R9579)

117 Heard a stat that 56% of Romneys ads were positive while something like 20% of Obama's were positive. The precedent has been set. 2016 we go scorched earth.

Posted by: Rich at November 09, 2012 09:35 PM (arczc)

118 Politics is show business for ugly people.

And for people who were pretty hot once upon a time but now look like they should be posing with a big wooden spoon on the side of a syrup bottle.

Posted by: Ashley Judd at November 09, 2012 09:36 PM (WbGW2)

119 Allahpundit has a video of a gal explaining ORCA.

At some point the reporter asks her if they can offer rides to voters.

"Uh....I am not sure what the rules about that are.

I think we can only offer them to the elderly."

Posted by: tasker at November 09, 2012 09:36 PM (r2PLg)

120

Remember during the primaries when I remarked about the very low vote totals?

And then you guys said to not worry about it, GOP primaries are always like that.

Bullshit. The warning signs were there all along the way and they were ignored.

ORCA Shmorca.

People like Obama and there's no sense of urgency to dump him.

We live in Idiocracy the movie.

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 09, 2012 09:36 PM (xnrlV)

121 <<I am trying to ascertain just what level of self-delusion...>>

Probably the same level that convinced him he'd make a good candidate in the first place.



Let it burn.

Posted by: Sgt. York at November 09, 2012 09:37 PM (vFo4N)

122 Shit Zac said:

We find the best firms in the country and glue them together to achieve our goals

Challenging, yes, but not without its advantages, such as having no legacy of circa-2007
tools and thinking to build from.

Mobile is about what you can strip down
to the most basic and still do the most for the most people

Posted by: Peaches at November 09, 2012 09:37 PM (kpCLl)

123 104 Note to Horde, AtC draws the line at watersports.

---------

Gah. Yes, yes, I do.


See! I do, in fact, have standards.
Posted by: alexthechick at November 09, 2012 09:32 PM (Gk3SS)



That is both refreshing AND disappointing.

However, notice there was no laughing.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 09, 2012 09:37 PM (GEICT)

124 Crazy thought? Demint?

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 09, 2012 09:34 PM (GEICT)


I like Demint. Jindal's my favorite, that's no secret but Demint isn't too shabby either.

Posted by: alexthechick at November 09, 2012 09:37 PM (Gk3SS)

125 2016 we go scorched earth.

----------------




By 2016, everything will be scorched earth.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 09, 2012 09:37 PM (P6QsQ)

126 2010 helped replinish the bench.
Compare a potential 2016 field to the last two.....Rubio, Ryan, Jindal, McDonnell, Hawley.
-----------------------------

2012 was the "free shit" election in a country $16 TRILLION in debt.

I would think "trust in the electorate to do the right thing" would be shattered right now.

Posted by: Pyro Pete at November 09, 2012 09:37 PM (OL96w)

127 We are obviously not the same people who voted in those elections. That is the problem that looms above all others. If you cannot convey to a strong majority of voters why Obama's policies are catastrophically bad, nothing else matters.
Posted by: epobirs at November 09, 2012 09:29 PM (kcfmt)


Exactly, and when you factor in the MSM lapdogs and the cheating....it's over. All we can do is bedevil them at every turn and make their lives miserable.

There is actually nothing more dangerous than a person who has nothing left to lose.

We, as Republicans, have reached that point and I say we start having some fun.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 09, 2012 09:37 PM (2rMmy)

128 Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 09, 2012 09:31 PM (OWjjx)

Mallamutt, what do you think in retrospect of the effort to get Obama kicked off the ballot in any state on the basis of failure to prove natural born citizenship?

For four years I've been told that the only possible solution is to beat him at the ballot box, but I wasn't at all sure that was possible after what I saw the media do in 2008 to John McCain and Sarah Palin.

That effort to get him kicked off the ballot is not looking so stupid now, is it?


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 09:37 PM (R9579)

129 @112'
BCochran.......can't see it. I know he has been trying to play nationally with mixed results. I suspect of everyone mentioned for 2016 DeMint would be the one easiest to portray as "extreme, right wing hater".

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 09, 2012 09:37 PM (OWjjx)

130 116. sorry. The media detroyed Nixon in 1960. But Nixon beat the media in 1968 and 1972. He won 49 fucking states in 72

Posted by: Jsck J at November 09, 2012 09:37 PM (neP+W)

131
I live in Cali. Our local FOP is horrific.



Further, a lot of folks don't realize that the GOP brand is toxic.



This is not an exaggeration: children are literally taught in Cali
schools that republicans are racist, and that only racist vote
Republican. This occurs nationwide. Two generations of children have
been taught this in school, and them have it reinforced in college.



The brand is ruined. And news flash: we're already not winning elections.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 09, 2012 09:17 PM (5g2Fy)

Instead of trying out how to improve our brand I say we instead focus on destroying the democrat brand as a return of favor.

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 09, 2012 09:37 PM (zrpqj)

132
We achieved in a large part what we set out to do in the swing states

*Fires up Benny Hill music*

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 09, 2012 09:38 PM (PHb2k)

133 On "Let It Burn:"

There's talk of having a House GOP that votes "present" on every piece of legislation supported by President Motherfucker.

The more I think about that, the more I like it.

They'll be crucified as obstructionists if they make any attempt to oppose Motherfucker. On any and every attempt. And they'll lose anyway.

Why not give the bitch his head. The economy will collapse. Voters can then decide how they like it. No one will say it's the GOP's fault.

I know it'll never happen: This is, after all, the GOP. But it would be brilliant strategy.

Posted by: Scobface at November 09, 2012 09:38 PM (IoNBC)

134 @128
Go away. That issue is dead.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 09, 2012 09:38 PM (OWjjx)

135 "Politics is show business for ugly people."

Actually, that may have been true at one time, but not any longer.

Show business is politics, period. Until we acknowledge this, our party is all systems fail on the U.S.S. Failer

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 09, 2012 09:38 PM (Td9D+)

136 Hmmm... ok, but the fact that election day is a pretty hectic event, and only a 12 hour window of polls being open, I don't know how a command center is supposed to help out. You risk local leaders waiting around for orders and direction from HQ when they should take the initiative themselves and send volunteers out to pick up our folks and start dialing numbers.
Posted by: Serious Cat at November 09, 2012 09:27 PM (zrpqj)


I dunno. It was the first time that I ever workedon a campaign, apart from handing out some literaturewith a friend for the primaries for a local race many years ago, and it seemed very sophisticated to me. Individual PINs for each registeredvoter! I had never even heard of a strike list before, and I just figured that the folks who were running things knew what they were doing.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 09, 2012 09:39 PM (DeRsD)

137

#120 Soothsayer

That's exactly the way I'm thinking.

Brawndo. It's got what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.

We are in Idiocracy.

Posted by: Marmo at November 09, 2012 09:39 PM (pcgW1)

138 People who have called me, but I can't get in touch with now. I'm here 24/7/365. How about you?? Alex - RNC 813-694-2493 Allien - RNC 855-262-6805 Andrea- RNC 866-960-8256 Mitt Romney - 857-293-0899 John McCain - 855-262-6805 Ashley- RNC -855-262-6805

Posted by: dDan at November 09, 2012 09:39 PM (q1RJB)

139 Screw voting military coup baby.

Posted by: Chavez at November 09, 2012 09:39 PM (vd51j)

140 30 Fucking GOP Governors. If they had the balls to do it, they could rise against Obamacare

Posted by: Jsck J at November 09, 2012 09:40 PM (neP+W)

141 <<Excellent points John E. But if the side bar story regarding the massive
Ohio voting fraud is true (and who can doubt it was not only true, but
also a national phenomenon)>>

And what of it? Nothing will come of it. Al Franken stole his election and he's still a Senator. Massive fraud occurred in '08, was proven, and nothing was done.

See, it's bad enough they're stealing elections, it's worse we're letting them do it.

Either we fight, like Allen West is doing, or we allow ourselves to go over the cliff...good men doing nothing and all that. Someone needs to do a thorough investigation of the counts, build evidence and then sue the Federal Government...before the SCOTUS is packed with libs.

Posted by: Sgt. York at November 09, 2012 09:40 PM (vFo4N)

142 We live in Idiocracy the movie.





Posted by: Soothsayer at November 09, 2012 09:36 PM (xnrlV)

Idiocracy was a documentary.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 09:40 PM (R9579)

143 10 okay, new party means 8+ more years of Democrat party dominance while the two other fractured parties get their shit together.

that's not the answer.

the answer is to change RNC from the ground up. We should be active in our local Republican party HQ doing the things that we think they ought to do.

2014 will be a proving ground of new ideas for how to get republicans elected.
Posted by: chemjeff at November 09, 2012 09:01 PM (5p18q)



This.


It's what I'm doing now.

If you live in massachusetts or rhode island: Join me.

Posted by: Truman North at November 09, 2012 09:40 PM (YEdnb)

144 John E., your writing (not just content, but style) has been fantastic, and thank you for reporting on this.

Not only did you put time and money into this, but we're being fed slick borderline lies by the Romney campaign that is just nonsense.

This is what the Obama campaign was supposed to be about, not the Romney campaign.

Further, the Romney campaign was supposed to be about competence.

Your post today is a truncated version of your previous one, where you pointed out they couldn't even do basic things like forward the www version to the non-www version, and http to https.

This is bordering on inexplicable because it's a standard thing to do for any webmaster on a 7.95 a month shared hosting plan or whatever. It's 1 minute in the control panel, literally.

Plus not only did the system break down badly on the day, they only got the information to you at the last moment. So you had to do a late-night Kinko's run.

Ridiculous.

I am sure Romney is a decent man, but until people are willing to emotionally address this level of Republican failure and not blame Obama's evil fraud operation that just so happened to match the average polling data in 49 out of 50 states and the national polls, from many different firms, the GOP will be in trouble.

I was overoptimistic this cycle -- like I was the last 3 cycles -- and was, once again, derided as an Eeyore or worse.

Alright, you don't like my personality, fine, but I was closer to the truth. But still wrong. In your favor.

There is a lot of self-delusion in the GOP, both here at the base and there at the head of the ticket.

This needs to be addressed if the Democrats are using top-flight behaviorial scientists to micro-target voters and get them to turn out, and the GOP is doing this.

No matter how much you may not care what I personally have to say, it would still be true if David Axelrod, Stephanie Cutter, Markos Moulitsas, Kate Silver, or Elmer Fudd said it.

And 4 out of 5 of those people, minimum, were more realistic in their projections than 98% of the GOP, including its nominee.

Chew on that.

Is that emotionally painful? Do you have a desire to attack it or ignore it or both? Yeah. That's natural.

But it's also the problem and has to be addressed.

Further, the 81% of the voters who thought the Dem candidate was more "caring" is something you can pooh-pooh all you like. I hate stupidity and find emotional reactions to what should be logical analysis vexing.

But both my logic and emotions tell me you can't just ignore that, any more than you can the Dems huge advantage in turnout operations, and grounding in political reality.

Great work, John E. I know you care a lot about the country and the party to have worked so hard trying to make a difference, and to be reporting honestly about what happened now, however hard what you have to say is to process.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 09, 2012 09:40 PM (SKX2R)

145 @Rushbabe and @alexgthechic: I think I love both of you. Spot the fuck on!!! I gave money, more than I should have and my time for ORCA, 12 fucking hours; for what. Although the "app" worked for me, what did it accomplish in VA. Nada!!!

@Rushbabe: I love Palin, but the brand is broken now. I was saying on the last thread that we need to look somewhere else, not at celebrities or career politicians. Where do we go, I'm not sure and to be honest, I'm almost willing to let the fucking Socialist have it at this point. It's going to collapse anyways (math don't lie), so let them have it. Let's just be in a position to pick up the pieces.

Posted by: stourma at November 09, 2012 09:40 PM (Xf0bG)

146 The electorate failed. Secession is now the only option.

Posted by: Spike at November 09, 2012 09:41 PM (I4NNt)

147

I was working the local Republican Victory Center and personally transported over 25 voters to the polls, based on strike lists, calls and requests from the prior few weeks. Locally, there were multiple copies of strike lists, all over the place, printed, with many many annotations, and they were being worked by the phone banks.

One of the tranportees,a registered republican seasoned citizen, as we chatted on the way to the polls, told me he did not plan to vote until he got a call and was offered a ride. His comment was simple.

He said that it was a lot harder to get out the vote when the reason was to vote against someone, and a lot easier when it is to vote for someone. He was not voting for Romney, he was going to vote against Obama. And he would not have bothered at all until he got that call.

I thought it interesting, and a good point.

Posted by: MisterMoney at November 09, 2012 09:41 PM (wN82N)

148 Oh shit

Sanderson2208@gmail.com

I think I may drop my fake Internet name entirely soon. It seems petty and venal.

Posted by: Truman North at November 09, 2012 09:41 PM (YEdnb)

149 I live in the second biggest ward in the biggest city in New Hampshire. We had two volunteers. Both of us were completely unable to download the damn web 'app.' We resorted to traditional striker lists but I had no way to call in numbers and take down names.

I had the same concerns and my own blind faith in our organization.

Posted by: TBag at November 09, 2012 09:41 PM (1vHjc)

150
Let it burn.


Posted by: Sgt. York at November 09, 2012 09:37 PM (vFo4N)

Help it burn. Let's send matches and gasoline to Obama supporter's neighborhoods. They'll do the rest.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 09:41 PM (R9579)

151 <<Instead of trying out how to improve our brand I say we instead focus on destroying the democrat brand as a return of favor.>>

Let the Party die...let a new one rise from the ashes.


Posted by: Sgt. York at November 09, 2012 09:42 PM (vFo4N)

152 Little JohnE. Zac's mouth. Some assembly required.

Posted by: Rich Fader at November 09, 2012 09:42 PM (Lbian)

153 All I know is that Cringely, using your info ... quoting your experiences, has just hammered it. I cannot imagine that they didn't test it, really wring it out, and get ready for the load. Very sad. Mitt,a guy who knows the power of data, must still be pulling hair. Very sad.

Posted by: and irresolute at November 09, 2012 09:42 PM (DBH1h)

154 There's talk of having a House GOP that votes "present" on every piece of legislation supported by President Motherfucker.



The more I think about that, the more I like it.


---------------

Me too.

On every spending bill, just say "This sounds like a really bad idea, and we think it will have awful results. But people elected you President, and this is what you want to do. So we'll not stand in your way, and we'll let your policies speak for themselves."

Then abstain.



Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 09, 2012 09:42 PM (P6QsQ)

155 I think Zac's performing some digital exams on himself.

Is this the guy that signed off on this thing or is he the one who built it?

P.S. it should've been an APP. Idiots.

Posted by: Jcw46 at November 09, 2012 09:42 PM (SP4jC)

156 Stourma jib cut newsletter

Posted by: Chavez at November 09, 2012 09:42 PM (vd51j)

157


Smokey the Bear heads
into the autumn woods
with a red can of gasoline
and a box of wooden matches.

His ranger's hat is cocked
at a disturbing angle.

His brown fur gleams
under the high sun
as his paws, the size
of catcher's mitts,
crackle into the distance.

He is sick of dispensing
warnings to the careless,
the half-wit camper,
the dumbbell hiker.

He is going to show them
how a professional does it.





Billy Collins

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 09:42 PM (R9579)

158 Alex the Chick:

When you mentioned 'watersports' I hope you meant water-skiing. Because I can't do that any longer myself. Sailing I can still do.

If there is another meaning I really do not want to know. Do. Not. Want. To. Know.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Huh, the world didn't end yet at November 09, 2012 09:43 PM (gmoEG)

159 129 @112'
BCochran.......can't see it. I know he has been trying to play nationally with mixed results. I suspect of everyone mentioned for 2016 DeMint would be the one easiest to portray as "extreme, right wing hater".

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 09, 2012 09:37 PM (OWjjx)



They all get portrayed as extremists. Why not actually have one? And we haven't run a true conservative in....what....a quarter century? The true reason we lost this election has nothing to do with people voting themselves free shit and everything to do with the fact that only a third of us showed up. Can Demint gin up more enthusiasm? I dunno, but I'm willing to see.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 09, 2012 09:43 PM (GEICT)

160 At the end of the day the Republican party replaced the Whig Party the Tea Party or another should replace the Republican party.

The GOP has become a useless entrenched Democrat lite party, it's leader spineless and supine.


Losing more slowly is still losing.

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 09, 2012 09:43 PM (0fxcV)

161 Heard a stat that 56% of Romneys ads were positive while something like 20% of Obama's were positive. The precedent has been set. 2016 we go scorched earth.Posted by: Rich at November 09, 2012 09:35 PM (arczc)Well said - and I would like to point out the following; that precedent was set, like, a million years ago. Only a full retard thinks negative campaigning doesn't work. It's like those fuckheads who say "torture doesn't do any good." Same bullshit pollyanna mentality. No Rep prez campaign has gone true negative for a LONG time. Thus, squeakers even when we win, salted liberally with shameful loses. It's the McCain approach - legitimize the enemy and make him seem not so bad. Stupid, stupid, stupid.Scortched earth works for the Dems every time it is tried. But we're too damn "good" to do it. Fuck that. The limp-wristedness, the lack of anger and wrath, is what's killing our side. We look like weaklings. And sadly, I guess we are. We just got an assload of voter fraud at an epic, unheardof level that even Chavez would be red-faced about, andour so-called leaderswill do exactly NOTHING about it.

Posted by: Reactionary at November 09, 2012 09:44 PM (jfeoD)

162 Well, they passed out a billion and a half or so Republican voter dollars to their buddies, and they filched another hundred million off that wrestling lady.


Heh. You know I do suspect that's what it all comes down to. The professional political class got put in the hours and got paid.


The only one I ever gave to was Jim DeMint's pac.

Posted by: entropy at November 09, 2012 09:44 PM (YUttk)

163
I know it'll never happen: This is, after all, the GOP. But it would be brilliant strategy.

Posted by: Scobface at November 09, 2012 09:38 PM (IoNBC)

I agree.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 09:45 PM (R9579)

164 I must have had a dozen calls on election day, including one 15 minutes before the polls closed, and I had voted weeks before.

Posted by: Jinx the Cat at November 09, 2012 09:45 PM (l3vZN)

165 See! I do, in fact, have standards.

So you're saying there's a chance.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 09, 2012 09:45 PM (6JMZR)

166 Sorry, I should have made clear that Cringely is InfoWorld's "Notes from the Field" writer. Just hammered it.

Posted by: and irresolute at November 09, 2012 09:45 PM (DBH1h)

167
119

The Tea Party needs to gather up as much footage, testimonial, and what not of that sort of profound entrenched incompetence and start putting these numbnuts on trial. We are DEAD as a party until we weed out these people. I don't know if the cancer is terminal, but there are a lot of nodules about, and they have to be excised.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at November 09, 2012 09:46 PM (8cOY0)

168 I'd stick with tge party for 2016 if we ran Allen West.

Posted by: Hppeless at November 09, 2012 09:46 PM (dramD)

169
Your fancy schmanzty system got you fewer Mormon votes for your fucking
Mormon candidate than a Born Again Christian got eight years ago.



EPIC FAIL!!!!


Posted by: General Woundwort at November 09, 2012 09:18 PM (0fxcV)


That was stunning to hear that Mitt got less Mormons to vote for him than McCain. Did anyone vote on Tuesday?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 09, 2012 09:46 PM (ljJpj)

170 Is atc hot or does she just play hot on the Internet? Anyone ever meet her?

Posted by: Truman North at November 09, 2012 09:46 PM (YEdnb)

171 @159
BC the one interesting exit poll take away was the question "which candidate cares more about people like me" or something along that line. Obama was selected 81% of the time.

Like it or not, we have reached an American Idol stage of voting....."I feel your pain" is now required.

DeMint just does not pass this test.

It is stupid. It is no way to elect a President. However, it is what it is.

Adapt or die.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 09, 2012 09:47 PM (OWjjx)

172 The best result isn't making a third party, or making an existing third party more viable, or even hollowing out the GOP like a four ply tire and filling it up with real normal Americans - it's to purge both parties.

Get back to normal - liberals (focused on liberty) reviewing how liberty is protected. extended, and recognized; and conservatives reviewing proposals from the liberals against the founding principles and documents. They propose thirty changes, we sort through the horseshit for the ponies. Occasionally we'll find one and have a barbeque.




Posted by: Inspector Asshole at November 09, 2012 09:47 PM (JVGuP)

173 165 See! I do, in fact, have standards.

--------

So you're saying there's a chance.
Posted by: The Mega Independent at November 09, 2012 09:45 PM (6JMZR)




No, she said she does have standards.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 09, 2012 09:47 PM (GEICT)

174 But here's the thing, Samwise.....I don't want to fucking reach out to asshats whose main criteria for President is that he effing cares for them.

I just don't.

I can accept the fact that we're fucked.

But I will not, I will not remain in a party that tries to cater the feeble minded.

If I wanted to reach out to imbeciles who base their votes on skin tone, ovaries and emotions, I'd be a mother fucking Democrat already.


Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 09, 2012 09:47 PM (2rMmy)

175 and fireworks in celebration. (figurative language)

(cut off this from the bottom)

Posted by: Inspector Asshole at November 09, 2012 09:48 PM (JVGuP)

176 You cant run a squish against a commie it never works. Be yourself not some media crafted whore and pound your message. If nobody buys it well at least you were true to something besides crap.

Posted by: Chavez at November 09, 2012 09:48 PM (vd51j)

177 #105

I'm going to go full Yoda here and say, "There is no dirty. There is only win or not win."

Posted by: epobirs at November 09, 2012 09:48 PM (kcfmt)

178 @128

Go away. That issue is dead.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 09, 2012 09:38 PM (OWjjx)

All but the recriminations. The first step in fixing a problem is acknowledging mistakes. A lot of people slammed this idea, but it couldn't have been worse than what we ended up with, could it?
It's too late now, but I still feel obliged to remind people who wouldn't see it at the time that this idea might have worked but for everyone's stubborn insistence that it was stupid.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 09:48 PM (R9579)

179 Let's all agree that from now on when anybody says we need a third party, what they actually mean is that we need a DIFFERENT party to run against the Democrats.

This would mean that the current Republican party has either been taken over in a coup or has been destroyed and rendered impotent and unable to run. (oh wait that just happened)

Plus the old hands that have identified as Republican have either quit or now identify with the successor party.

Difficult but not impossible.

It's obvious to anyone that an actual 3rd party only sucks votes from one or the other of the main parties. This may have to be experienced for 1 or 2 election cycles for it to be accomplished.

We've got 4 years.

Posted by: Jcw46 at November 09, 2012 09:49 PM (SP4jC)

180 The Tea Party needs to win Senate Seats, not just Red House districts

Posted by: Jsck J at November 09, 2012 09:49 PM (neP+W)

181 But I will not, I will not remain in a party that tries to cater the feeble minded.


+1000

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at November 09, 2012 09:49 PM (vbh31)

182 Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 09, 2012 09:47 PM (2rMmy)

Awesome, Tammy. Like I didn't already love you enough, that was just fuckin' awesome!

Posted by: Peaches at November 09, 2012 09:50 PM (kpCLl)

183 Truman,

I've been contemplating law school for the very same reasons.

Absolutely not what I want in life, would rather live in the redwoods in a truck with my dog before law school.

But serious sacrifices must be made if the Republic is to endure.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 09, 2012 09:50 PM (r4GuR)

184 Compare a potential 2016 field to the last two.....Rubio, Ryan, Jindal, McDonnell, Hawley.

Rubio is the author of Dream Act 2.0; my gov, Virginia's own Bob McDonnell today announced he's grabbing his ankles and implementing O-care exchanges (after he signed a legislature bill two years ago that said Virginians aren't going along). He's as RINO as Boehner, just quieter about it. Who's Hawley?

DeMint is outstanding, but he's too gentlemanly. He'd never call out a mouthy lib if he had to.

Posted by: RushBabe at November 09, 2012 09:50 PM (tQHzJ)

185 He said that it was a lot harder to get out the vote when the reason was to vote against someone, and a lot easier when it is to vote for someone. He was not voting for Romney, he was going to vote against Obama. And he would not have bothered at all until he got that call.

I thought it interesting, and a good point.
Posted by: MisterMoney at November 09, 2012 09:41 PM (wN82N)

It's a horrible point.

That is the attitude of someone wanting their own Santa Claus.

I'm against Abortion in all cases including Rape, and I was still able to get off my butt and vote for Romney without a phone call or mailer sent to my house.

Posted by: Nate at November 09, 2012 09:50 PM (b6qQk)

186 Word is team Romney shut out the RNC, and Romney decided to use a lot of staff from his Massachusets Governor days.





Posted by: Hopeless at November 09, 2012 09:33 PM (cRzgp)

**********************************
Sorry that is an obvious lie being put out now with all the finger pointing as throughout the entire campaign Preibus spoke all the time about the cooperation between the 2 campaigns.

I've been saying it all day: we didn't lose because of ORCA; we lost because this country no longer has a free press as defined by the First Amendment and we have a country full of children who want a "celebrity" for POTUS who gives them "free" stuff.

Posted by: angienc at November 09, 2012 09:50 PM (w3JGl)

187 Maybe we should just all switch to Democrat and take over the Democratic party. Get a bunch of conservatives in each precinct, go to the meetings, vote out the current officers, start running avowedly conservative democrats.
If nothing else it should prove entertaining...

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 09, 2012 09:50 PM (DeRsD)

188 #174

Damn right. This is what I think when ever I hear calls for compromise.

The left's version of compromise is like that offered by conquering Islamic hordes to non-Muslims: join, die, or become a form of slave.

Posted by: epobirs at November 09, 2012 09:50 PM (kcfmt)

189 The more I learn about ORCA, the more I'm coming to the conclusion it was just massive incompetence, but outright fraud by the consultants to milk the cash cow that was the Romney campaign.
They never even beta tested the fucking thing. This thing was supposed to be our GOTV Death Star, beware the power, Democrats. They never even tested it.
That is Madoff and Ponzi, not Three Stooges handiwork there. Just think, all the money we donated to try to save the country may have really done nothing but pay for gold plated faucets for some Republican consultants. Somebody needs to go to jail over this.
The irony here is epic. Romney and the GOP may have let themselves get Madoffed, subprimed, Goldman-Sachs'd by crook consultants.

Posted by: publius(NotBreitbartPublius) at November 09, 2012 09:50 PM (VVB18)

190 Wasn't it the Ron Paul voters that didn't vote, and not the Mormons?

Posted by: and irresolute at November 09, 2012 09:50 PM (DBH1h)

191 reviewing how liberty is protected. extended, and recognized


They don't WANT liberty. Liberty means working and taking care of yourself.

They want to be take care of. They want free shit.


Europeans won't give up their free shit, in the face of utter ruin, they riot for it. We're there now.

It's over. We can't fight it, we're out numbered.


Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 09, 2012 09:50 PM (2rMmy)

192 42 So ORCA seems to have fallen victim to GIGO?

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at November 09, 2012 09:12 PM (xtS2H)

--ORCA got stabbed by NARWHAL.

Posted by: logprof at November 09, 2012 09:51 PM (jKE+Z)

193 Actually, unless (1) nationally-relevant voter fraud is investigated fully and (2) serious state-level and federal level penalties are increased and enforced against the felons doing the fraud, we cannot expect to have a free national election ever again.

Posted by: Inspector Asshole at November 09, 2012 09:51 PM (JVGuP)

194 Isn't it funny that narwhals are like the unicorns of the sea?

Posted by: logprof at November 09, 2012 09:51 PM (jKE+Z)

195 My daughter votes in every election and she always votes Republican. She is not overtly political and doesn't get into every little aspect of campaigns. I guess she would qualify as a reliable moderate Republican.

This morning was the first chance I got to talk to her after the election. She said, "Well that didn't go particularly well. But I never really thought he would win anyway. I just never got any kind of real message from him. It all seemed sort of bland. I didn't think he came across very strong. My friends were kind of indifferent to him."

FWIW


Maybe running someone moderate isn't much of a draw.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 09, 2012 09:52 PM (P6QsQ)

196 8 In perspective, why do responsible adults need someone to tell them to go vote? If that is the real problem in this country then we are doomed beyond doom.
Posted by: misty at November 09, 2012 09:00 PM (qY4rL)

So say we all!

Posted by: and irresolute at November 09, 2012 09:52 PM (DBH1h)

197 BC the one interesting exit poll take away was the question "which candidate cares more about people like me" or something along that line. Obama was selected 81% of the time.


And yet Romney got like 48% of the vote. And that's with 2/3 of registered Republicans staying home. We get those people to turnout and the "cares about me" bullshit is just an interesting but near irrelevant piece of datum. Turnout wins elections.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 09, 2012 09:52 PM (GEICT)

198
The funniest part about this is that all the technology is there for free and being used already.

1. volunteers get a twitter account and learn how to use private tweets.
2. get a strike list for your precinct from the local gop office.
3. tweet the name to your contact when they vote.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 09, 2012 09:52 PM (PHb2k)

199 The electorate failed. Secession is now the only option.

Posted by: Spike at November 09, 2012 09:41 PM (I4NNt)

That's not an option. Ever hear of Czechoslovakia? We are a Satellite of the Iron curtain now.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 09:52 PM (R9579)

200 I know some big time, very involved paultards and they said they were voting for Romney. Not in a joyful way, but they were doing it

Posted by: Peaches at November 09, 2012 09:53 PM (kpCLl)

201 I'm with Marmo -- no Romney bashing here. I heard (cannot verify) that upwards of 3 million Republicans did not vote. That's a vote for President Revenge. And let's face if busing in Somalis in Detroit to vote doesn't hint that there might be voter fraud ahead then nothing will. No voter id, increased absentee voting and electronic voting, hinky glitches in machines etc. etc. The vote is worthless in America unless we get control of the process. And that's about as likely as getting someone in this Administration to secure the borders. Or to meet an illegal they didn't like. Come on' this is America in decline. It will soon be the wild wild west all over again. Step aside, vote present and let President Revenge and the thug Dems floor it and drive the country right over that fiscal cliff. Maybe the good guys will win in the end. Maybe not.

Posted by: gracepmc at November 09, 2012 09:53 PM (rznx3)

202 Is atc hot or does she just play hot on the Internet?

Let me reiterate - zaftig hobbit.



Anyone ever meet her?



There are members of the Horde who have met me, yes.

Posted by: alexthechick at November 09, 2012 09:53 PM (Gk3SS)

203 Let me tell you guys a story here about our Conservative party in Canada. We had a leader who was elected leader of the party and introduced himself to the nation on a jetski. In the election debates he tried to use props. He believed let the impression get out that he believed that dinosaurs and humans were around at the same time. Total disaster. Liberals told us that we needed to turn left and we completely and utterly ignored them because it was stupid advice.

Instead, we stole the US Democratic party strategies. Our prime minister launches completely brutal, personal attacks on the leaders of the opposition as soon as they are chosen. He runs a positive campaign himself but the attack ads are brutal!

Then while in government the campaign continues at all times. He still governs and does a great job but he never stops campaigning. It's called the permanent campaign and the Democrats invented it. That's what Republicans have to do.

We also have a computer system that has every voter in it and we know who are supporters are and how to contact them.

Posted by: james at November 09, 2012 09:53 PM (1PqiV)

204 OK- another thing-weren't there just a few diozen offices in Ohio, compared to over 100 for Obama? Seems there may have been more than Orca at fault here...

Posted by: Baldy at November 09, 2012 09:54 PM (b+m13)

205 @178

Lamp, one of the blessings in my life is to have not 1 but 2 beautiful little girls. Well, they are not so little anymore (19 and 16).

Little girls sometimes get things stuck in their head andare utterly convinced they are right. You can not dissuade them from it, you can not reason with them, logic, facts...whatever...those precious little girls believe what they believe. So, you come to the realization that what they believe is of no consequence in the real world, that it just doesn't matter and all they want is to be patted on the head and told they are right.

(Bending down to pat Lamp on the head) Of course you are right.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 09, 2012 09:54 PM (OWjjx)

206 Only a full retard thinks negative campaigning doesn't work.


http://tinyurl.com/6qjzmw3


And while I'm on the topic...


http://tinyurl.com/3d8zbws

Posted by: entropy at November 09, 2012 09:54 PM (YUttk)

207 Peaches!!!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 09, 2012 09:54 PM (2rMmy)

208 an interesting but near irrelevant piece of datum. Turnout wins elections.

...If the votes are actually counted.

If fantasy totals are released under the eyes of bought and paid for political operatives whose livelihood depends on one outcome - then turnout is just propaganda by the losing side.

Forever.

Posted by: Inspector Asshole at November 09, 2012 09:54 PM (JVGuP)

209 Another failed premise to ORCA is this:

More robo calls equals more votes.

The whole concept is a joke. I was getting 6 and 7 freakin calls a night and it was a major turn off.

If the GOP learns anything it is this: Don't invade my privacy with fucking robo calls.

Instead, entertain me on the radio or TV or Internet on how bad the democrates are. Show me a partial birth abortion if you fucking have to. Tell me about Senator and Congressman the insider trading. Tell me whose freezer the money is in and who else is in on selling Barack open seat. Chase the fucking dirt bags down with a video cam.

Do what you need to do but don't fucking call me.

Posted by: sTevo at November 09, 2012 09:55 PM (VMcEw)

210 btw ONT up

Posted by: alexthechick at November 09, 2012 09:55 PM (Gk3SS)

211 There's still a Team Romney in existence? Maybe it was the janitor putting stuff in boxes and sweeping the floor or something.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 09, 2012 09:55 PM (BuSM8)

212 191 It's over. We can't fight it, we're out numbered.


Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 09, 2012 09:50 PM (2rMmy)




No, we're not. Almost half the vote with only a third of our side turning out.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 09, 2012 09:55 PM (GEICT)

213 That was stunning to hear that Mitt got less Mormons to vote for him than McCain. Did anyone vote on Tuesday?


Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 09, 2012 09:46 PM

*********************************

Except that poll didn't exactly poll them.

This is just more revisionist history from an MSM that is nothing but a PR machine for POTUS to explain how Obama won so we will not focus on their behavior/treatment of Obama v. Romney during the campaign or on those districts that had 100%+ turnout, etc.

Good job falling for it guys -- this is how they get away with their shit, distracting us from what *really* went on here.

Posted by: angienc at November 09, 2012 09:55 PM (w3JGl)

214 #179

There is more than one way to apply a third party. Consider how thing work, if I might use the term, in the UK. The lesser parties only wield power by throwing their votes behind one or the other big players. Nobody expects somebody from the Terribly Serious Party or the Very Silly Party to become PM. But they can shift an election to get something they want from the new PM's party.

A third party in the US doesn't need to be big enough to win. They just need to be big enough to guarantee the GOP doesn't win if it doesn't comply with a few demands, such as growing a pair and being confrontational on some issues of import. No more pretending the opposition is honorable.

Posted by: epobirs at November 09, 2012 09:55 PM (kcfmt)

215
Zac Moffatt
Digital Director, Mitt Romney for President

Zac Moffatt is currently the Digital Director for Mitt Romney for President where he oversees digital strategy, online advertising, email marketing and online fundraising for the campaign.

Before joining the Mitt Romney campaign Zac founded, along with Michael Beach, Targeted Victory, a full service interactive advertising agency that has quickly grown into serving over 100+ federal and national clients including the Republican National Committee, Marco Rubio for Senate and FedEx.

Prior to founding Targeted Victory Zac served as the Deputy Director for Statewide efforts at Freedoms Watch, the RNC Director of Political Education and the Victory Director for the Maryland Republican Party for Governor Robert Ehrlich and Senate candidate Michael Steele. He has also served on campaigns in NY, OR and RI as well as at the 55th Presidential Inaugural Committee and the 2004 Republican National Convention.

Prior to the Convention, Zac served as the Associate Chief of Staff for Mayor Michael Bloomberg of New York City following the Mayor’s successful election in 2001.



Sweet. A Bloomberg/Steele sort of Republican. What could go wrong?

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 09, 2012 09:55 PM (kdS6q)

216 We had a leader who was elected leader of the party and introduced himself to the nation on a jetski.

Yea, but see, that'd go over quite well here.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 09, 2012 09:56 PM (2rMmy)

217 In perspective, why do responsible adults need someone to tell them to
go vote? If that is the real problem in this country then we are doomed
beyond doom.

Posted by: misty at November 09, 2012 09:00 PM (qY4rL)





Exactly, you shouldn't need anyone to remind you to vote or hold your hand to do it. Here's when you have to vote and where after that take care of it yourself. My 78 year old mother walked in the rain to vote.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 09, 2012 09:56 PM (ljJpj)

218 Posted by: james at November 09, 2012 09:53 PM (1PqiV)


--I have a crush on Stephen Harper. Mmmm-mmm-mmm.

Posted by: logprof at November 09, 2012 09:56 PM (jKE+Z)

219 183 Truman,

I've been contemplating law school for the very same reasons.

Absolutely not what I want in life, would rather live in the redwoods in a truck with my dog before law school.

But serious sacrifices must be made if the Republic is to endure.
Posted by: Hopeless at November 09, 2012 09:50 PM (r4GuR)



Great. I'll hire you when I'm a fucking drug kingpin with a license to dispense medical marijuana. You can be in barge of gettin the charges dropped when my fuckin army of thugs beat the crap out of crooked poll workers and so forth.

Posted by: Truman North at November 09, 2012 09:56 PM (YEdnb)

220 You know, I keep hearing about the Tea Party. Who or what is the Tea Party; seriously. It seems to me that there is no national Tea Party. There a a bunch of different organizations that have taken on the Tea Party mantra, all having different agendas or goals. Well, that just isn't going to work. If the "Tea Party" want's to be taken seriously, let's make it a real party. Get organized with one central core and one primary set of core beliefs. Do that and you might have some backing.

I know I'm going to catch some grief in what I just said because of the 2010 elections. But I would counter with, what have those individuals who were elected under the "Tea Party" mantra produced? I think we can safely say they played little if any role in the Presidential election. Or maybe I'm wrong in that thinking and they played a bigger role than we think by not helping in the election effort. Just saying.

Posted by: stourma at November 09, 2012 09:57 PM (Xf0bG)

221 And I have to leave to go get the wifeat girls night out. So, life goes on, I guess.
Good night

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 09, 2012 09:58 PM (OWjjx)

222 The Tea Party needs to win Senate Seats, not just Red House districts


They've got 2. Rand Paul and now Ted Cruz. Plus Jim DeMint was already there when they started, that's... 3 out of 100.


Better than 1 out of 100 I guess.

Posted by: entropy at November 09, 2012 09:59 PM (YUttk)

223 No, we're not. Almost half the vote with only a third of our side turning out.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 09, 2012 09:55 PM (GEICT)


Fair enough. But for God's sweet sake, if 2/3ds of the party is too damned petty to go out and vote, are we still not effed?

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 09, 2012 09:59 PM (2rMmy)

224 >>> but for everyone's stubborn insistence that it was stupid

It wouldn't have worked. It was stupid.

It was part of the milieu of things that convinced a lot of people the GOP are out of touch kooks.

Obama's a guy raised by a single-white-American mom with an absentee father who happened to be black. It isn't an uncommon story these days, without meaning the race part.

A lot of people can relate to it.

Newspaper articles at the time announced his birth in Hawaii. To keep on harping on his birth certificate was political gold to Obama -- the gift that kept on giving.

He eventually released it, but not before showing how delusional a large part of the GOP base is.

Which is kind of the point of this thread, huh?

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 09, 2012 09:59 PM (SKX2R)

225 147 One of the tranportees,a registered republican seasoned citizen, as we chatted on the way to the polls, told me he did not plan to vote until he got a call and was offered a ride. His comment was simple.

He said that it was a lot harder to get out the vote when the reason was to vote against someone, and a lot easier when it is to vote for someone. He was not voting for Romney, he was going to vote against Obama. And he would not have bothered at all until he got that call.

I thought it interesting, and a good point.
Posted by: MisterMoney at November 09, 2012 09:41 PM (wN82N)

Very hard for me to understand how any registered Republican would need help getting motivated to vote against Obama but I'll take your word for it.

We need to start "bussing people to the polls" like the Dems do. Honest GOTV initiatives will not suffice.

Posted by: TD, a maker not a taker at November 09, 2012 09:59 PM (+uFux)

226 I've been saying it all day: we didn't lose because
of ORCA; we lost because this country no longer has a free press as
defined by the First Amendment and we have a country full of children
who want a "celebrity" for POTUS who gives them "free" stuff.


Posted by: angienc at November 09, 2012 09:50 PM (w3JGl)

We lost because of suppression of free speech. The media keeps it's hand over our mouths while they monopolize the microphone. They interrupt or cut us off when they think we are making headway, and they even use their manufactured entertainment against us.
Many TV shows and movies contain as much liberal propaganda as they do entertainment. With these shows as examples, they establish in the public's mind what is "normal" and what isn't.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 10:00 PM (R9579)

227 "So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth."

Revelation 3:16

Posted by: Jcw46 at November 09, 2012 10:00 PM (SP4jC)

228 #192
That's what I was trying to get at in #29. Google "project narwhal Obama" The Dems have there own system too. It apparently worked better or at least better for them with their own version of election scruples. Which is to say none.

Posted by: geoffb at November 09, 2012 10:00 PM (d3wbb)

229 Lets blame ORCA! Seriously? That's the fucking reason we lost.

Posted by: Spypeach at November 09, 2012 10:01 PM (pwTow)

230 Posted by: misty at November 09, 2012 09:00 PM (qY4rL)


Amen. Fucking whiners can't be depended on.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 09, 2012 10:01 PM (2rMmy)

231 Posted by: james at November 09, 2012 09:53 PM (1PqiV)

Harper did go left though to an minorextent.

He is not exactly same guy ideologically that he was when he had the luxury of being part of the Reform party where they weren't trying to win elections.

You are right that he does a good job at framing his opponents and he does pursue specific issues that work with single issue constituencies (i.e. Sask Wheat Board)

Posted by: Nate at November 09, 2012 10:02 PM (b6qQk)

232 Maybe we should just all switch to Democrat and take
over the Democratic party. Get a bunch of conservatives in each
precinct, go to the meetings, vote out the current officers, start
running avowedly conservative democrats.

If nothing else it should prove entertaining...

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 09, 2012 09:50 PM (DeRsD)

You obviously have not had close contact with democrats. In a word, they are INSANE. A weirder collection of nuts, kooks, dopers and nere do wells you will not likely find.
They would get violent with you very quickly.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 10:02 PM (R9579)

233 We had a leader who was elected leader of the party and introduced himself to the nation on a jetski.

Yea, but see, that'd go over quite well here.


Especially nude. With genital piercings. Embrace the pop!

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at November 09, 2012 10:02 PM (vbh31)

234 This.





It's what I'm doing now.



If you live in massachusetts or rhode island: Join me.





Posted by: Truman North at November 09, 2012 09:40 PM (YEdnb)

thank you for that.
if you all are on the ONT at all, you'll know that I'm a pretty shy guy. but I'm convinced now that the only way that we are going to take our country back is if *everyone* chips in and does their part. and it's going to be tough and it's going to involve things that we don't want to do, but it's more important to save our country than it is to avoid the unpleasantness.
I've never served in the military, and I've often regretted not doing so, and this is going to be my way to make amends, to serve my country in a different way.

Posted by: chemjeff at November 09, 2012 10:03 PM (d/5qf)

235 I've been saying it all day: we didn't lose because of ORCA; we lost
because this country no longer has a free press as defined by the First
Amendment and we have a country full of children who want a "celebrity"
for POTUS who gives them "free" stuff.


No. The same electorate strengthened the GOP House majority, which has been refusing to hand out free stuff. The GOP House was as vilified by the press and the Democrats as Romney was. But the demonizing failed.

We lost because the public rejected Mitt personally, for a variety of reasons. That's all.

Posted by: Llarry at November 09, 2012 10:03 PM (EyqGu)

236 @Laurie: Oh My Fucking God. It all makes sense now. What the hell were they thinking. My bad in not doing my research into who was running this shit. NEVER FUCKING AGAIN!!!

Also, notice Rubio's name in there. Dead to me!!

Posted by: stourma at November 09, 2012 10:03 PM (Xf0bG)

237 I'm starting to feel bad for these guys. I think they get the point

Posted by: me at November 09, 2012 10:04 PM (p1D0d)

238 Fair enough. But for God's sweet sake, if 2/3ds of the party is too damned petty to go out and vote, are we still not effed?
Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 09, 2012 09:59 PM (2rMmy)

We're not in trouble because of that. We're in trouble because that attribute in this single election means that we are stuck with Obamacare until collapse.

Posted by: Nate at November 09, 2012 10:04 PM (b6qQk)

239 By the way: Which stage of grief are my fellow morons in? I was in acceptance Wednesday morning and I hadn't seen any news since early evening on Tuesday EDT. I waited until I got up and to work to check the local paper because I wanted to sleep Tuesday night, and every night thereafter.

Yeah, that is cold. But I prefer 'cold and functional'; and I prefer that because I still have to live.*


*Hari-Kari sounds tough, until you consider the alternatives - yeah, you are out of the mess; and the mess remains and now someone else gets to clean up your mess (and in so many ways), and no one considers the custodial staff, or offers a 'thank you'. [Been there; Done that. And thank you for the feces storm in the lavatory at 3:00 am, I got done at 6:00 just as the day shift was starting to come in. That was almost 20 years ago, and yes I still remember that.]

*Humph*

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Huh, the world didn't end yet at November 09, 2012 10:04 PM (gmoEG)

240 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew thee out of my mouth."

Revelation 3:16
Posted by: Jcw46 at November 09, 2012 10:00 PM (SP4jC)


YES. I'd take a passionate, frothing at the mouth Lib over these wishy-washy so called swing voters who can't seem to tell the difference between a decent, American loving man and and a fucking Communist.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 09, 2012 10:04 PM (2rMmy)

241 Obama lost KY?!?!
Ah... I'll go with, "and Reggie is pissed."

Posted by: Beagle at November 09, 2012 10:05 PM (sOtz/)

242 To hear us republicans talk to each other, Ronald Reagan must be rolling in his grave. People sneer with "RINO!" and then the sneer back is "WINGNUT!" and man, gotta ask, how the HELL are we going to ever win a national election if our own party won't support the candidate chosen in the primary? I dunno.

Posted by: AnnieOakley at November 09, 2012 10:05 PM (Gi3nj)

243 @ 47 I'm curious... is all of our voting history in the public domain? Is there a database somewhere that records my first record of voting by absentee in Howard Co, MD... sent by mail from an Ohio zipcode? Also, do they know the sex of each voter?
-------
Yes is the easy answer. Voting records, census data have been used forever by campaigns and localities to gerrymander. Not sure whether it's paid or what, but they do know if, when and how you've voted. (More state systems?)

Some talking head yesterday said the Obama campaign had access to "a secret government database called... 'the census' -- add rueful laugh here." He was clearly p*ssed off that Romney et al hadn't bothered to think of this.

Finally, this entire thing is worthy of looking into the cost and time, even of just doing the nightly calls. HUGE waste of time, money sink etc. I got no calls from anyone, though I live big blue MD, but I'm registered and you'd think someone may have cared just a wee bit that we all voted. Also, Romney campaign never asked me for money at all. Only local GOP asked for local races that they wouldn't win. Then I got two identical info but different glossy cards... On Wednesday regarding ballot initiatives. Not a word about Romney.

Posted by: Amazed at this Mess at November 09, 2012 10:05 PM (+XCJt)

244
Posted by: geoffb at November 09, 2012 10:00 PM (d3wbb)

Ace linked to a GQ article about Narwhal earlier in the week.
basically, the obama campaign created a literal cult. once you stepped inside the cult, the peer pressure for participating and helping out was so great, it really inhibited you from leaving. and hence they acquired an entire collection of Obama drones to community organize all of the swing states.

Posted by: chemjeff at November 09, 2012 10:06 PM (d/5qf)

245 I say again:

People who have called me, but I can't get in touch with now.
I'm here 24/7/365.

How about you?? \
Alex - RNC 813-694-2493
Allien - RNC 855-262-6805
Andrea- RNC 866-960-8256
Mitt Romney - 857-293-0899
John McCain - 855-262-6805
Ashley- RNC -855-262-6805

You cocksuckers wanted to talk, but I can't get it touch w/ you

WTF???

Posted by: dDan at November 09, 2012 10:06 PM (q1RJB)

246 This election had everything to do with voters showing up to get free shit and R`s not showing up to vote against it because they`re getting free shit. My FL county went 74% Romney, to bad it wasn`t Miami-Dade, Broward or DUVAL.

Posted by: rightlysouthern(aim low boys,theys ridin ponies) at November 09, 2012 10:06 PM (O2Jzh)

247 Maybe we should nominate a rapper next time?

Posted by: D. Hopper at November 09, 2012 10:07 PM (AVfT8)

248 Posted by: Nate at November 09, 2012 10:04 PM (b6qQk)

Which was the point all along, and hello single payer.


I am not even upset anymore, but I do firmly believe we're screwed, with no hope of recovery.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 09, 2012 10:07 PM (2rMmy)

249 223 Fair enough. But for God's sweet sake, if 2/3ds of the party is too damned petty to go out and vote, are we still not effed?

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 09, 2012 09:59 PM (2rMmy)




I can't decide who I'm more pissed at, the O voters or our own idiots who sat at home.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 09, 2012 10:07 PM (GEICT)

250 Mebbe that vanilla ice feller.

Posted by: D. Hopper at November 09, 2012 10:07 PM (AVfT8)

251
Lets blame ORCA! Seriously? That's the fucking reason we lost.


Read this article. You may come to a different conclusion.

Conclusion: Romney's consultants conned him in order build nest eggs for themselves. They fed him and Ryan false polling data through out the campaign.

http://tinyurl.com/aem6x3m

Posted by: Llarry at November 09, 2012 10:08 PM (plvMs)

252 No. The same electorate strengthened the GOP House majority, which has been refusing to hand out free stuff. The GOP House was as vilified by the press and the Democrats as Romney was. But the demonizing failed.

We lost because the public rejected Mitt personally, for a variety of reasons. That's all.
Posted by: Llarry at November 09, 2012 10:03 PM (EyqGu)

Strengthened?

We lost seats in the House. Not many, but we still lost seats. We are benefiting there from intentionally targeted post 08 McCain-Palin districts held by Democrats from the 06 election that we had the pleasure of redistricting for this election.

Posted by: Nate at November 09, 2012 10:08 PM (b6qQk)

253 Also, Romney campaign never asked me for money at all.

Wow. This is just an estimate, but I bet I got at least 100 pieces of mail and twice that many emails from them in the months leading up to the election.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at November 09, 2012 10:08 PM (vbh31)

254 We lost because of suppression of free speech. The media keeps it's hand over our mouths while they monopolize the microphone. They interrupt or cut us off when they think we are making headway, and they even use their manufactured entertainment against us.
Many TV shows and movies contain as much liberal propaganda as they do entertainment. With these shows as examples, they establish in the public's mind what is "normal" and what isn't.

This.

We need our OWN conservative network. And I don't mean FOX! Subscribe to Blaze TV. Boycott the MFM bastiges!

http://bit.ly/Zecdjh

Posted by: RushBabe at November 09, 2012 10:09 PM (tQHzJ)

255 I've never served in the military, and I've often
regretted not doing so, and this is going to be my way to make amends,
to serve my country in a different way.


Posted by: chemjeff at November 09, 2012 10:03 PM (d/5qf)


----------------


That's a wonderful statement chemjeff. I'm very impressed by the person that you are. God bless you.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 09, 2012 10:09 PM (P6QsQ)

256 scorched earth policy, destroy them culturally. were up against the wall, may as well toss out the haymakers. if you cant fight, get the fuck out of the way.

war on women? yup, why the hell not? give em one. and make all those skanky single mothers with the bad hair cry about it to big daddy govt. piss on their votes, we aint gettin none anyhow right? well. its our way or the highway baby cakes.

bully the beta male left and attack their non-manhood. if they want a handout, theyre gonna need one because its time to take the lunch money, ALL the lunch money. were the ones with the cashola arent we? yeah, we are.

and fuck the racial vote too. they want the herd mentality so we'll herd up too. its 3rd and 1, bring yo azz. who gives a flying fuck about their votes and crying.

the possiblities are endless, and itd be fun as shit.

i keep hearing about the democrat political 'street fighting'...are you fucking serious? THOSE guys? the beta males with the faggy tattoos? them? LMAO well if its a street fight they want, its a street fight theyll get.

get on it.

Posted by: laughing at neck braces at November 09, 2012 10:10 PM (nVqtU)

257 You cocksuckers wanted to talk, but I can't get it touch w/ you



WTF???

Posted by: dDan at November 09, 2012 10:06 PM (q1RJB)

Those were probably robocalls or reminder to vote robocalls....you're not going to get in touch with them.

Posted by: Tami at November 09, 2012 10:10 PM (X6akg)

258 Posted by: rightlysouthern(aim low boys,theys ridin ponies) at November 09, 2012 10:06 PM (O2Jzh)


Hey there! How ya been?


And I agree. I suspect we lost some Republican seniors who bought in to the BS and were worried about their medicare, and some Disability Queens who don't want the gravy train to stop.






Posted by: Tammy al-Thor says Happy Birthday Berserker at November 09, 2012 10:10 PM (2rMmy)

259
(Bending down to pat Lamp on the head) Of course you are right.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 09, 2012 09:54 PM (OWjjx)

And this is referred to as Patronizing, which I believe comes from a Latin root such as Paternal derived from "Pater." Interestingly enough, the same root is where the word Patriotism comes from, which means love for the land of my Father, and now we are back to the natural born citizen issue.
With all due respect to your daughters, there is another couple of phenomena called "Cascade" and "Herd Theory." It is the tendency of people to make up their mind based on what others think, and then defend it as a member of the "herd." In such cases, it's nearly impossible to get people to admit they were wrong. You can't reason a man out of a position he didn't reason himself into.
Many people just won't entertain the idea that they could be wrong, or, as my favorite quote from the movie "Little Big Man" goes:"Your miserable life is not worth the reversal of a Custer decision."


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 10:12 PM (R9579)

260

@185


My point was that he typified was some of the thinking in the election, he just could not find a good reason to be enthusiastic about Romney, but he answered the call when it came. Feeling strongly against something does not provide the same motivatoin level as feeling strongly for something.


I'm against Abortion in all cases including Rape, and I was still able to get off my butt and vote for Romney without a phone call or mailer sent to my house.


Did you vote against a candidate that supports abortion, or did you vote for a candidate that you thought would ensure and reinforce the right to life at all levels? Both reasons motivate, the later though I believe more efffective.

Posted by: MisterMoney at November 09, 2012 10:12 PM (wN82N)

261 Would you want the world to know you had a hand in crushing the dreams of tens of millions of Americans?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 09, 2012 10:13 PM (piMMO)

262 Posted by: RushBabe at November 09, 2012 10:09 PM (tQHzJ)

We dropped cable after the Olympics, and signed up with Beck. I thought my husband would cave in a month, because he is addicted to channel surfing, but he says he doesn't miss it a bit.

I don't even have a TV here, but then I seldom watched anything but baseball and Fox news anyway.

Starve the beast!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor says Happy Birthday Berserker at November 09, 2012 10:13 PM (2rMmy)

263 If you notice...



Some of those phone #'s are the same.

Guess What??

Cocksuckers evidently don't work on Fridays.

Posted by: dDan at November 09, 2012 10:13 PM (q1RJB)

264 Romney is an MBA, among other things.

MBAs typically have little understanding of the complexities of software, and often bite down hard on glossy promises of magic-bullet software solutions. Which then blow up.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 09, 2012 10:15 PM (ymG7s)

265 I see, DiogenesLamp, you lost because of suppression of free speech, because the country didn't go along with your crackpot idea that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii, etc.

It had little or nothing to do with GOP incompetence, demographics, luck, or the Dems turnout competence.

It was the Boogyman.

In that case, nothing you can do about it. Keep going as you were.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 09, 2012 10:15 PM (SKX2R)

266 Yea, but see, that'd go over quite well here.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 09, 2012 09:56 PM (2rMmy)

President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Herbert Camacho

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 10:15 PM (R9579)

267
don't know who mentioned it a while ago about Newt being chosen as press secretary if the repubs won.... I thought that was a great idea.... make the media squirm.

Well, if Allen West loses his seat Preibus should make him the RNC spokesman and f*cking let him loose.

#LetItBurn

Posted by: Some Guy in Wisconsin at November 09, 2012 10:16 PM (tPHZQ)

268 What gets me is how the libs LOVES some Plan B pills when it comes to minors yet, seemingly, the ONLY option for aborting a pregnancy conceived of rape or incest is to wait for the child to develop in the womb before disposing of it.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 09, 2012 10:16 PM (piMMO)

269 let me dig into my recs.


I'll give you more names and Phone #'s.

I'll damn sure call your name.

Posted by: dDan at November 09, 2012 10:16 PM (q1RJB)

270 Well, if Allen West loses his seat Preibus should make him the RNC spokesman and f*cking let him loose.

****

I think I just peed a little.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 09, 2012 10:17 PM (piMMO)

271 I can't decide who I'm more pissed at, the O voters or our own idiots who sat at home.


Now that it's all over can we safely admit in candor, there no was no fucking way in hell Romney was ever going to repeal obamacare, especially not with a democrat senate? They would blame it on the democrats in the senate. They were lying their asses off and frankly, they were broadcasting it pretty obviously every other week through surrogates.


Speaking of which, those 2010 Republicans (who are largely THE SAME FUCKING GUYS we've had since the 90's) ran and won on $200B in immediate cuts as a starting point, immediately after they were elected they claimed they said $100B, once they were in office it was suppose to be $70B, then they had to cut a deal for $50B, then when the deal came out it was supposed to be $30B, and after it passed we found out behind the gimmicks it was actually $3B.


Then they declared fucking victory and went home to campaign again.

Posted by: entropy at November 09, 2012 10:17 PM (YUttk)

272 Fair enough. But for God's sweet sake, if 2/3ds of the party is too damned petty to go out and vote, are we still not effed?

Only for a while. This is Darwinism. The GOP needs to find better candidates or it'll die.

Romney is wonderful man, but he made fatal mistakes. They're just starting to come out. He has a long record of losing elections, and he always makes the same mistakes. He isn't an effective politician.

Obama is an effective politicians for the degraded. The exit polling shows that 81 percent of voters thought that Obama cared more about them than Romney did.

The reason they felt that was because Romney let Obama define him as a "vulture capitalist."

My own theory is also that psychologically Romney didn't really want to be president. His wife tried to talk him out of it, so he must've felt guilty, especially since she's ill. He has a giant family that all became targets. And there's something going on with Romney and his late father, also a politician.

McCain didn't really want to be president, either.

So we need good retail politicians who really, really, really want the job, can articulate precisely why conservatism works better, and who have the strategic foresight to not let the opposition define them.

Then we'll win.

Posted by: Llarry at November 09, 2012 10:18 PM (2+NQs)

273 Newspaper articles at the time announced his birth
in Hawaii. To keep on harping on his birth certificate was political
gold to Obama -- the gift that kept on giving.



He eventually released it, but not before showing how delusional a large part of the GOP base is.



Which is kind of the point of this thread, huh?

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd. at November 09, 2012 09:59 PM (SKX2R)

I think it would have worked quite well, but it isn't worth going over the evidence to demonstrate it to you. I've recently reminded myself that evidence simply doesn't work against belief.
But the point remains; How could the tactic have done worse than what happened? Eh?

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 10:20 PM (R9579)

274 So we need good retail politicians who really, really, really want the job

And the Titanic is looking for a good skipper...

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at November 09, 2012 10:21 PM (vbh31)

275 Howdy Tammy, doing ok, how about you sweetheart? Saw that your on a long seperation from Thor for the time being. With the election and that, kind a like a double whammy. You seem to be a very strong person so I know you`ll be heads up

Posted by: rightlysouthern(aim low boys,theys ridin ponies) at November 09, 2012 10:21 PM (O2Jzh)

276
Some of the best laughs I will get next year is when people realize that obamacare will not give them free healthcare. And they now have to pay up to the govt.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 09, 2012 10:22 PM (PHb2k)

277 Chemjeff,
We don't care. That's the same argument the pro-sodomy DC insider RINOs used to foist McCain and Romney on us. "but, electability!"
We don't care. The inside the beltway crowd is the problem. They seek rent from us and fresh boys to rape, and each election their Progressive Agenda is advanced further.
The rot is a moral rot. It must be cut out, or the patient will be lost. SoCon leadership now or new party. Period.
Posted by: Hopeless at November 09, 2012 09:05 PM (KZ5KD)

Good...get the fuck out then. Once you do you'll have plenty of time to sit in a pile of your own shit and drink moonshine until you pass out to the sound of someone playing the spoons. I'm so sick of you ignorant junk science sub-intellects:

1. The World is 6,000-10,000 years old and The Flintstones is pretty much a documentary

2. Climate change can't be happening because Genesis said God would never destroy the World again

3. If my wife gets raped I must watch her belly swell as she carries the rape-baby. If my daughter gets raped I must watch the same thing...Oh, wait...junk science says women can't get pregnant from "legitimate rape". Well, everything's OK then

4. US lets gays in the Military, it's the destruction of our culture. Israel does, it's OK...it's God's country, and anyway they're fighting the Arab hordes for God...we probably should fight the Arab hordes for God too...Revelations said so

5. ???????

6. Profit!!!

My conclusion:

Stop the constant threatening to leave the Party and just get the fuck out already!!! Maybe we'll actually be able to win PA and WI and MI again once you knuckle-dragging freaks are gone, and civilized people are no longer fucking scared of YOU!!!

Posted by: trickamsterdam at November 09, 2012 10:22 PM (uTBHY)

278 >>> My own theory is also that psychologically Romney didn't really want to be president.

I see. He's been campaigning for the Presidency non-stop for the better part of a decade but doesn't want the job.

>>> His wife tried to talk him out of it, so he must've felt guilty, especially since she's ill.

Ah. Ann Romney's fault. She wasn't supportive enough.

>>> So we need good retail politicians who really, really, really want the job

Also magic. And woo. Because it's all about "wanting it". If you believe, you an achieve.

It's not about dedicating many years of your life to pursuing a path, then losing. If only Romney wasn't just such a conflicted man.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 09, 2012 10:22 PM (SKX2R)

279 #272

Do you really want somebody who had long desired the Presidency? The first two that come to mind are Clinton and the SCOAMF.

Posted by: epobirs at November 09, 2012 10:23 PM (kcfmt)

280 how the HELL are we going to ever win a national
election if our own party won't support the candidate chosen in the
primary? I dunno.

Posted by: AnnieOakley at November 09, 2012 10:05 PM (Gi3nj)
I supported Romney, albeit grudgingly. I'm still pissed off about that underhanded tactic his supporters used in Virginia. Had they not pulled that stunt, Romney might NOT have been the winner of the Primary.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 10:23 PM (R9579)

281 Maybe running someone moderate isn't much of a draw.


Posted by: mama winger

You should be using "moderate" as an adverb, not an adjective. You don't have to be a hardcore right winger to run a strong campaign, and you can be a hardcore right winger and run a nice-guy campaign.

Posted by: SFGoth at November 09, 2012 10:23 PM (spwZ/)

282 We lost seats in the House.

You're right. I was wrong. I was going by election-night numbers.

In reality we lost 2.9%, down to 233.

Posted by: Llarry at November 09, 2012 10:25 PM (2+NQs)

283 #253:

I did not contribute because of one thing I remembered from the 2004 campaign.

I got a registered letter. It wasn't there because no one was home. I had the notice. On my lunch the next day I went to the mail-depository (whatever it is called) across town to get this letter. Registered mail means 'something serious, someone wants to serve you; something like lawsuit'. I got the letter. It was a 'beg-o-gram' from the Republican National Committee.

Those Fuckers. I had a worried night and wasted my lunch hour to go and retrieve a political fundraising letter? Fuck Them And Everything With Them.

Stopped contributing right then. State and national party. Like on the phone stuff. If I say I can not contribute I kept getting the pitch until I got a supervisor and told him I couldn't and asked if he knew my finances better then I did.

When he said 'No' I asked 'Then when I say no why doesn't anyone respect that?' He babbled about talking people down from one amount to another and I said I did not want anyone calling me again because when I said no I meant no and arguing with me was the good road to getting nothing.

After that letter sending me across town, NO means NO. That stunt was the last straw.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - Huh, the world didn't end yet at November 09, 2012 10:27 PM (gmoEG)

284 how the HELL are we going to ever win a national
election if our own party won't support the candidate chosen in the
primary? I dunno.

---so tell em to stay the hell home then. if they wanna be selfish like that let em sit and pay high taxes like an idiot. andmake sure to CALL them an idiot.

its high time to stop playing nice with these morons, it hasnt done us any good.

Posted by: laughing at neck braces at November 09, 2012 10:27 PM (nVqtU)

285 99+% Obama votes in Philadelphia districts, 100% Obama votes in Cleveland districts? What's ORCA suppposed to do to match that "turnout"? (And god knows what went on in Virginia-- Jim "father of Pat" Moran's state-- and Florida, where ballots were entered and you couldn't verify whether the machine registered your vote for Romney or Obama).

And if claims like these are not looked into and addressed what do you think this is going to do to the turnout for the 2014 mid-term election? Conservatives are going to think that there is no point in voting and stay home.

Posted by: Decaf at November 09, 2012 10:28 PM (+Bpfx)

286
>>> My own theory is also that psychologically Romney didn't really want to be president.



I see. He's been campaigning for the Presidency non-stop for the better part of a decade but doesn't want the job.



>>> His wife tried to talk him out of it, so he must've felt guilty, especially since she's ill.



Ah. Ann Romney's fault. She wasn't supportive enough.



>>> So we need good retail politicians who really, really, really want the job



Also magic. And woo. Because it's all about "wanting it". If you believe, you an achieve.



It's not about dedicating many years of your life to pursuing a
path, then losing. If only Romney wasn't just such a conflicted man.


Weird. In your world everyone is entirely rational and in control of their actions at all times, and there are no conflicted people. I wish I lived there. Sounds fun!

And I didn't say Ann wasn't supportive enough or that it was her fault. I said she didn't want him to run--as she's said many times--and since she's ill, I'm sure that preyed on his mind.

As for magic and woo, those are your words. If you believe magic and woo help win elections, bully for you.

Me, I prefer politicians who make really good decisions, such as fighting back when your opponent tries to define you. Or having the good sense to hang the shitty economy squarely around the neck of the person most responsible for it, and doing it to his face in the debates.

Posted by: Llarry at November 09, 2012 10:31 PM (2+NQs)

287 264 Romney is an MBA, among other things.

MBAs typically have little understanding of the complexities of software, and often bite down hard on glossy promises of magic-bullet software solutions. Which then blow up.


****

The CEO of a major organization shouldn't know the ins and outs of each job in the chain.

Last week, an employee at my former employer arrived at a meeting with the Sr. VP and found that his presentation file was corrupted. Worse, he didn't carry paper copies to the meeting as backup.

Now, did his boss, the director, ask along the way whether the presentation was progressing? Yes, he did.

Did the director ask, prior to the meeting, to review the presentation? Yes, he did.

Did the director ask "Are you prepared for the meeting?" Again, he did.

When the fella walked into that meeting, the director had checked the progress, approved the final presentation, and inquired of his readiness.

How much responsibility do the director and the Sr. VP hold in this situation?

Sometimes, despite your best efforts, someone who works for you will fuck up.

(BTW, this story of this fuckup was relayed to me by the director of HR)

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 09, 2012 10:32 PM (piMMO)

288
I see, DiogenesLamp, you lost because of suppression of free speech,
because the country didn't go along with your crackpot idea that Obama
wasn't born in Hawaii, etc.



It had little or nothing to do with GOP incompetence, demographics, luck, or the Dems turnout competence.



It was the Boogyman.



In that case, nothing you can do about it. Keep going as you were.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee at November 09, 2012 10:15 PM (SKX2R)

I see you feel the need to pick a fight with me. I don't mind a bit, but I will point out that the suppression of Free Speech was not at all intended to refer to efforts to get the States to look at real official papers from Hawaii rather than newspaper articles which have been scanned.
No, my reference to free speech suppression was regarding the vast array of things that conservatives would explain to the country regarding their philosophies and their hopes and dreams for the future.

Our Arguments for fiscal solvency and social responsibility are never permitted to be cast in a good light on the television screen. We are always made to appear to be kooks and nuts and we are never allowed to rebut the accusations.

We don't get equal time with liberal arguments. The Cameras are always pointed away from Liberal failures, and focused heavily on conservative flaws or mistakes such as Akin and Murdock.
Let me repeat once more, my comment regarding freedom of speech had nothing to do with Obama or his issues, it had to do only with the manner in which the media suppresses any positive image of conservative people or conservative thinking.

We clear?


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 10:33 PM (R9579)

289 Some of the best laughs I will get next year is when
people realize that obamacare will not give them free healthcare. And
they now have to pay up to the govt.


Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 09, 2012 10:22

**************************************

I'm going to like seeing the idiot Obama supporters who sit on their asses all day on tweeter or gaming realize they are not only required to have biometric testing every year, they're going to have to pay fines in they are 30 lbs. overweight, etc.

Posted by: angienc at November 09, 2012 10:33 PM (w3JGl)

290
Then they declared fucking victory and went home to campaign again.

Posted by: entropy at November 09, 2012 10:17 PM (YUttk)

Term Limits.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 10:34 PM (R9579)

291 Posted by: trickamsterdam at November 09, 2012 10:22 PM (uTBHY)

Hey ass, we just ran a moderate ticket with a three time Michigan govenors son, a Wisconsin favorite son as VP and lost both statesconvincingly. So keep your knuckledraggin` ass where your at and change some of your folks minds or go dem, which you seem to be headed towards anyway.

Posted by: rightlysouthern(aim low boys,theys ridin ponies) at November 09, 2012 10:35 PM (O2Jzh)

292 Only for a while. This is Darwinism. The GOP needs to find better candidates or it'll die.
Posted by: Llarry at November 09, 2012 10:18 PM (2+NQs)

It won't matter who our candidates are. The gifts necessary to talk around the News Media are rare and special. A Reagan comes along once in a lifetime.

Over the years i've read plenty of articles describing how the media always portray republicans as either evil or stupid.

Eisenhower was an affable old man, Nixon was EVIL. Gerald Ford was a bumbling clutz, Reagan was both Dangerous and Senile. George Bush Sr. was a wimp, and George Jr. was a fool.

Sarah Palin and Dan Quayle are both idiots, and the Comedy team of Biden and Barack are frickin geniuses.

That is the media game, and it will be till we wipe them out.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 10:38 PM (R9579)

293 So we need good retail politicians who really, really, really want the job

***

What?

You're not serious.

I'm even disgusted by George Allen taking another shot at it. I mean, you're run out because of your own stupidity and can't find anything else to do with your life?

People who want it that badly are looking for more than the chance to do public service.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at November 09, 2012 10:38 PM (piMMO)

294 Conclusion: Romney's consultants conned him in order build nest eggs for
themselves. They fed him and Ryan false polling data through out the
campaign.
http://tinyurl.com/aem6x3m



Posted by: Llarry at November 09, 2012 10:08 PM (plvMs)

********************************************
Revisionist history bullshit to erase Obama's behavior, pettiness vulgarity the last few weeks of the campaign up to including election eve when he was in tears that showed it was *obvious* that he knew he was losing.By this time Monday I fully expect to see the following stories being widely accepted as proof that Romney is an abject failure that there was never any doubt whatsoever that the Dear Leader was going to win:

Remember all those liberal newspapers who flipped their endorsements from Obama in 2008 to Romney in 2012? Totally a sign that Romney was tanking.

Oh and those pathetic Obama crowds those huge ones for Romney
with thousands waiting in the cold and rain to see him (that Obama only
matched when Katy Perry or Jay-Z opened for him)? That was deliberate strategy on Obama’s part to lull the right into a false sense of momentum.

Finally, Obama in Iowa election eve slumped over the podium, rambling
about this being his last race with tears streaming down his face while
at the same time Romney in NH with a crowd of 12,000+ cheering so
loudly when he came on stage that he couldn’t start his speech for 10
minutes? Never happened.


Posted by: angienc at November 09, 2012 10:39 PM (w3JGl)

295 "Now that it's all over can we safely admit in candor, there no was no
fucking way in hell Romney was ever going to repeal obamacare,
especially not with a democrat senate?"

What kills me is that, at least in theory, the Senate was attainable.

Then Akin and Mourdock guaranteed we would be two down.

Then the Akin and Mourdock undertow submerged other Senate hopefuls.

Then the Akin and Mourdock effect helped sink the top of the ticket. Not all by itself. There was obviously a lot of vote fraud in the deep blue big cities. Other factors beyond that.

However, I have to agree that Romney wasn't going to be repealing Obamacare.

I also doubt that Romney would have had the stones for the truly harsh cuts that would have had to be administered all over the federal budget to get us on a course back to stability. Abolish the Department of Education? Why, he and Ann would never again be invited to any of the Harvard alumni association dinners! They'd be social pariahs!


Posted by: torquewrench at November 09, 2012 10:40 PM (ymG7s)

296 277: my case in point.

Posted by: AnnieOakley at November 09, 2012 10:41 PM (Gi3nj)

297 Do you really want somebody who had long desired the Presidency? The first two that come to mind are Clinton and the SCOAMF.

I didn't say "long desired the presidency"; I said "really wanted to be president," as in "genuinely wanted the job."

There are signs that Romney was conflicted about becoming president, just as McCain was.

From what I've read, the first person to say that he'd lost was Romney. I read an article that the family went to bed, and that's when the Secret Service detail was withdrawn. No goodbyes, nothing. No emotion. Very businesslike.

And now we're learning about the ORCA fiasco. It appears that Romney was not given accurate polling since June. How is that possible, if he genuinely wanted the job? How did he not keep track of what was happening?

Clearly David Petraeus has some serious psychological issues that have taken everyone--especially me--by surprise. Can you imagine him sending thousands of begging e-mails to that author after she dumped him? I can't.

We never know what a person's problems are until they're exposed.

Posted by: Llarry at November 09, 2012 10:41 PM (2+NQs)

298 Revisionist history bullshit to erase Obama's behavior, pettiness
vulgarity the last few weeks of the campaign up to including election
eve when he was in tears that showed it was *obvious* that he knew he
was losing.


Almost all the polls showed Obama was winning. I didn't believe them, but they were accurate.

And have you read about Obama's GOTV effort? It's incredible.

Conservative voters are different; they don't need to be led by the hand and told their loved in order to go to the polls. But still, I read that Democratic voters reported 11-to-1 over Republicans that they were contacted by their party.

Why isn't it possible that Romney hired unscrupulous consultants who milked him and conned him? It wouldn't be the first time it happened.

Posted by: Llarry at November 09, 2012 10:46 PM (2+NQs)

299 **Fair enough. But for God's sweet sake, if 2/3ds of the party is too damned petty to go out and vote, are we still not effed?Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 09, 2012 09:59 PM (2rMmy)**A to Z.Backwards, forwards and three ways to Sunday.

Posted by: misty at November 09, 2012 10:48 PM (qY4rL)

300 23 Serious Cat,

That was the whole point of the project. To "centralize it".

Y'know, small government style.


I see what you did there.

Posted by: rickl at November 09, 2012 10:51 PM (sdi6R)

301 Imagine that, a campaign known for unprecedented lying is still lying. Meanwhile I had the loosest* connection to the Obama campaign and received email and Facebook messages election day about contacting particular friends on Facebook in battleground states and see if they had voted yet.
* I was running my own Facebook adv. impression campaign in toss-up states to likely women persuadable voters using the photo of Obama hugging a women standing beside Christie (Real Bipartisanship) or the granddaughter of Ike and her intelligent reasons she couldn't vote Republican this year. Don't know if I motivated anyone to get out and vote but 98,000 favorable impressions couldn't hurt.
Those of us who listened, watched and read from the reality based community were not surprised at all by the election results.
Far from the mainstream media being biased it was the "Fair and Balanced" media that were severely biased and did not inform their viewers but kept them riled up with propaganda instead of facts.
If you were surprised, it seems you were very surprised, please reflect on your choice of media and add some balance and perhaps you won't be fooled again.
We actually would like rational opponents with real facts to debate how to solve problems, not those we have to contact when the real world finally unmistakably intrudes to just say "We told you show."

Posted by: Gary D at November 09, 2012 10:52 PM (ohyRg)

302 It won't matter who our candidates are.

I disagree. In the age of American Idol, I think the main factor is the candidate.

People are shocked that Romney lost, especially since the exit polling showed that the voters thought he'd do a better job across the board. He'd even erased the likeability gap. So what happened?

They didn't trust him. They felt he didn't care about them.

Being cared about now means more to voters than actually having the ability to make a living. So we need candidates who can convince these dolts that he cares. Our candidates have to be able to make people feel all swaddled and tucked in, because they're now emotional infants.

Disgusting and depressing but true.

Posted by: Llarry at November 09, 2012 10:53 PM (2+NQs)

303 Any point-zero release that doesn't involve the death or maiming of the users is considered a success.

Posted by: @PurpAv at November 09, 2012 10:53 PM (Jznfa)

304 During the 2011 Summer debt crisis, I tried to argue strongly against the burn-it-all-down crowd. I said 2012 was our last chance at least to slow some stuff down and turn things around. And while I agree that Romney was a crappy candidate from a conservative point of view, he did pick Ryan, which I think should have meant something to the Libertarian-leaning wing of the party. I guess it was too little, too late. Oh well, I hope they were right about that.

Anyway, I'm now with the burn-it-all-downers. Since Boehner wants to bend over so quickly, why not cut our losses and just loudly announce several times that the Republican House will give the Democrats everything they want except taxes on the Internet, firearms regulations, partial-birth abortion, and free-pass judicial appointees. The House should vigorously campaign for drug legalization and try to pull a reductio ad absurdum on immigration (ie., try to get to the Left of the Dems so they're forced practically to advocate open boarders. You know it's coming, so why wait?)

Oh, who am I kidding, we're going to get the same old shit, and get blamed for it anyway. FUck

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 09, 2012 10:54 PM (Y5I9o)

305
#71 re: rove and how hard could it be?

Don't forget, George Bush almost lost to John Kerry. JOHN effing KERRY!!!! He had to be swift-boated to be beaten, and as effective as that was, he still almost became POTUS.

Posted by: gm at November 09, 2012 10:55 PM (wgmUB)

306 ugh - so

Posted by: Gary D at November 09, 2012 10:57 PM (ohyRg)

307 Yes, I used to argue against the burn-it-all-downers.

But now that the majority of the electorate has in fact voted to burn it all down, I say "have at it".

I only hope we come out the other side with a Washington rather than a Robespierre. Historically, the odds are not in our favor.

Posted by: rickl at November 09, 2012 11:00 PM (sdi6R)

308 The last total I saw showed Obama polled less votes than McCain received in 2008. How can a president win reelection with so few votes? (Answer: cause that's all he needed, IYKWIM)

Posted by: Abdul bin Doubleplay at November 09, 2012 11:00 PM (RsuzN)

309 @295:"Then the Akin and Mourdock effect helped sink the top of the ticket."
--
This.

Without Akin and Mourdock, the Democrats' abortion-palooza convention would have fizzled. Without Rush's "slut" comment, no one would remember Fluke now.

But that's not the only thing. This was a close election, and the GOP blew it. The Dems were campaigning on the ground from day 1, never stopped from 2008. What was the GOP doing? It was fucking over the grassroots, giving the finger to both Ron Paul and Sarah Palin supporters, thereby alienating both the libertarian and social conservative quarters of the party. I think Romney was an ok candidate, all things considered, but anyone coming out of the hellish primaries we had would have been severely damaged. Why did the GOP allow the media to do that again? I'm not surprised people were lukewarm about voting.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 09, 2012 11:02 PM (Y5I9o)

310 Finally, Obama in Iowa election eve slumped over the podium, rambling

about this being his last race with tears streaming down his face while

at the same time Romney in NH with a crowd of 12,000+ cheering so

loudly when he came on stage that he couldn’t start his speech for 10

minutes? Never happened.




Posted by: angienc at November 09, 2012 10:39 PM (w3JGl)

Methinks something doth smell.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 11:05 PM (R9579)

311 @307:"I only hope we come out the other side with a Washington rather than a Robespierre. Historically, the odds are not in our favor."
--
Yeah, this was my major argument against Libertarians' saying there was "no difference" between Romney and Obama. If the crash is coming, you don't want anyone like Obama near the office, and making him a 1-term failure might have brought the Dems back a bit from the Leftist cliff (cf. Conservative Dem opposition to Obamacare).

But now, well, I guess we get to see what happens...better sooner than later, since later it will be harder once access to energy, firearms, and individual communication are reduced due to "crisis" regulation.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 09, 2012 11:05 PM (Y5I9o)

312 @310:"Methinks something doth smell. "
--
Well, here's thought from the conspiracy theory corner of my brain (you know, the one that think the Obama campaign deliberately turned off credit card verification on its donation page...):

We think of Voter Fraud as manufacturing ballots. You know, finding some neglected trunkloads of ballot boxes at the 11th hour of the recount.

But might not ballot destruction be easier than ballot manufacturing?


Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 09, 2012 11:11 PM (Y5I9o)

313 The PA state gov't has a small window of opportunity to look into these Philly fraud accusations. Fraud was supposed to be a top priority of the Governor and Legislature when the GOP took them over in 2010, hence the short-lived attempt to allocate our EVs to the Congressional districts, and then the ill-fated Voter ID law. However, the usual timidity is being displayed...one R state rep dud comment on those ridiculous 99 percent turnout numbers in Philly, then the D rep of that area called him a racist, and it's been crickets ever since. Already the meme is being spread that the GOP are just being sore losers and voter fraud is a figment of their (and our) imaginations. Not that I think that the results will be overturned, not at all, but it would be nice to know that somebody is noticing and at least trying to do something about it. But a Dem has just been elected as the new AG, and she's going to start investigating Corbett over the Sandusky thing.

The funny thing is, Obama ended up with about 35,000 fewer votes in the city than 2008, and Romney ended up with about 22,000 less than McCain. Romney just about matched McCain's total statewide (Mitt is just about 35,000 short), and apparently that's the ceiling for a GOP Presidential candidate in PA.

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at November 09, 2012 11:11 PM (yJYwC)

314 But might not ballot destruction be easier than ballot manufacturing?







Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 09, 2012 11:11 PM (Y5I9o)
I think various areas used various tactics. Probably tried anything they thought they could get away with.
Note the 100% turnout in some areas? I've even read that some areas had 108% turnout. I would throw out the entire precinct should such an event occur on my watch.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 09, 2012 11:14 PM (R9579)

315 "Please, if anyone at the RNC is listening, do not let these guys near a major political campaign ever again."

AMEN to this one.

It would be so refreshing if any one of the clowns would just step forward and say, albeit sheepishly perhaps, "Well, we failed". This person would be a hero to me. By God, when you make a mistake at least man (or woman) up and say that you made a mistake.That person, after suitable penance and public shaming, might then be permitted back into the realm of future campaigns, at least to be a reminder of prior failure. But the rest of these people, I don't want to hear from them again. I don't want to hear that they have a new book coming out. I don't want to hear their analysis on the Sunday gabfests (oh, forget that - I never watch those anyway). Just go away and get used to having a scarlet "J" (for "jackass") figuratively tattooed on your forehead.

Now don't anyone go out and get any ideas, mmkay?

Posted by: dissent555 at November 09, 2012 11:18 PM (yR6A1)

316 "I've even read that some areas had 108% turnout. "
--
Wood county, Ohio. I saw in on the webpage carrying the info from the Cleveland Plain Dealer. So it's true, unless there's a spreadsheet error. WTF?!?

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 09, 2012 11:19 PM (Y5I9o)

317 One of those Philly wards...I think it was the ward that had the giant Obama mural... had Obama winning 9,500 to 55. The thing that shocks me is that Romney managed to get even those 55 votes in that area.....

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at November 09, 2012 11:20 PM (yJYwC)

318 But now, well, I guess we get to see what happens...better sooner than later, since later it will be harder once access to energy, firearms, and individual communication are reduced due to "crisis" regulation.


We shall not gather strength through irresolution, and we will not acquire an effectual means of resistance by lying supinely on our backs until our hands and feet are bound.

Posted by: entropy at November 09, 2012 11:21 PM (YUttk)

319 @315:"But the rest of these people, I don't want to hear from them again. I don't want to hear that they have a new book coming out. I don't want to hear their analysis on the Sunday gabfests"
--
This.

It's like the whole GOP campaign leadership is a bunch of empty chairs. Remember the clusterfuck of assholes that came out of the McCain campaign? That Schmidt guy who bounced around telling everyone all sorts of gossipy crap? Enough!

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 09, 2012 11:21 PM (Y5I9o)

320 311
Yeah, I got into some arguments with libertarian commenters at the Market Ticker who said that there was no difference between Obama and Romney. WTF? One had Communist associations out the wazoo and the other didn't. What's so hard to comprehend about that?

And I never did like Romney. During the primary season I swore up and down that I'd never vote for him. In the end, I swallowed my pride and did.

FWIW, I'm a libertarian who loves Sarah Palin. In fact, it was the political equivalent of love at first sight back in 2008. I even wrote her a thank-you letter after that election.

Maybe someday she'll tell us why she chose not to run this year. I've always felt that she would have been the best candidate in this, our last chance to save America. But I don't hold her not running against her. She doesn't owe me a damn thing. I said back in 2008, after the shitstorm she and her family endured, that I wouldn't blame her a bit if she quit politics and got on with her life.

Posted by: rickl at November 09, 2012 11:26 PM (sdi6R)

321 @318:"We shall not gather strength through irresolution, and we will not acquire an effectual means of resistance by lying supinely on our backs until our hands and feet are bound."
--
Well, no. But tell that to Boehner and the GOP leadership. All I'm saying is that it seems we have the choice now between letting the Dems crash everything and take the blame before they've hardwired away even more of our fundamental rights, or watching the Republicans eventually bend over after putting up just enough of a fight for Obama to pin the blame on them for their participation. I don't want the GOP to bend over, but tell me, if they didn't fight after the 2010 blowout, why are they going to now, regardless of what we say? I hate it, but where am I wrong?

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 09, 2012 11:27 PM (Y5I9o)

322 >>> No, my reference to free speech suppression was regarding the vast array of things that conservatives would explain to the country regarding their philosophies and their hopes and dreams for the future.

Fox isn't suppressed.

Ace of Spades isn't suppressed.

Rush and Mark aren't suppressed.

Instapundit wrote a word or two.

But you know? The majority of the country chooses to get their news from liberal-dominated networks. And most journalism students are liberals. They're biased as hell.

Expecting liberals to shed their biases when conservatives can't shed theirs (and appear to be more out of touch with reality than liberals of late, but that's another argument) isn't realistic.

And complaining of suppression of free speech is just whiny.

Free market. Heard of that?

Compete there, for media viewers, watchers, and listeners. And if the people choose to listen more to liberals than to conservatives, because they're more entertaining or they trust them more or because not enough conservatives want to go into journalism, despite saying this is the key place they're losing.

Then just suck it up, buttercup. It's an own goal. It's not suppression of free speech.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 09, 2012 11:36 PM (SKX2R)

323 “We achieved in a large part what we set out to do in the Romney campaign's anus in terms of our electorate."

Yes. Yes, you did.

Posted by: General Zod at November 09, 2012 11:36 PM (2+bRt)

324 Oh my god, MSNBC is liberal!

And ABC! And The NYT!

(But not The NYP, which is less widely read.)

There's no law against conservative journalists, networks, newspapers, radio shows, and blogs.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 09, 2012 11:39 PM (SKX2R)

325 I don't want the GOP to bend over, but tell me, if they didn't fight after the 2010 blowout, why are they going to now, regardless of what we say? I hate it, but where am I wrong?


You're not wrong, I was agreeing with you. It's from Patrick Henry's Liberty or Death.

Posted by: entropy at November 09, 2012 11:43 PM (YUttk)

326 FWIW, I'm a libertarian who loves Sarah Palin.


I'm a libertarian who likes her at least more than most of the GOP.

Posted by: entropy at November 09, 2012 11:45 PM (YUttk)

327 @325:"You're not wrong, I was agreeing with you"
--
Ah, I see now. I misinterpreted "lying supinely on our backs" as contesting my suggestion that the GOP give the Dems what they want in order to hasten the crash.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 09, 2012 11:50 PM (Y5I9o)

328 326:"I'm a libertarian who likes her at least more than most of the GOP."
--

On a scale of Akin to Boehner, she's off the charts

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 09, 2012 11:53 PM (Y5I9o)

329 I confess I don't really know what that means. It sounded good when I typed it. Maybe it's time to go to bed.

Posted by: JeremiadBullfrog at November 09, 2012 11:54 PM (Y5I9o)

330 Almost all the polls showed Obama was winning. I didn't believe them, but they were accurate.



Posted by: Llarry at November 09, 2012 10:46 PM (2+NQs)

*****************************************No, the results were FIXED to MATCH the RCP average of polls that were skewed by DailyKos/SEIU in the first place for exactly this reason -- so that the MSM and dumbasses like you would say: See the results matched the polls so therefore everything that I listed (re: Obama's behavior and crowd size v. Romney, etc) that showed that Romney was winning and Obama was losing that you ignored by going right to the "polls" didn't mean what it actually meant. That's how revisionist history worked.
And don't think those DailyKos polls weren't done to do exactly that, the stress displayed by Obama was only trying to figure out how to explain the "freeze" of Romney's obvious momentum by taking focus off of the election for a while and if they hadn't lucked out with Sandy, they would have been bombing Libya the week before the election. And fools like you would have bought it because THE POLLS MATCH THE FIXED RESULTS.

Posted by: angienc at November 09, 2012 11:54 PM (w3JGl)

331 No, free speech is not suppressed, I'm not sure sure that people choose to listen to liberal news sources, though, those that are overtly liberal (MSNBC or Air America, for example) have a fraction (or had, in the case of AA) of the audience of Fox or Rush. The problem is that the less obvious lefty biased MSM outlets are the default news source, being more numerous. The righty media is smaller and more concentrated, and therefore more easily pigeonholed as "extremist wingnuts".




Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at November 09, 2012 11:57 PM (yJYwC)

332
Between this and the stat about Sandy bringing Obama up in the polls, I'm actually starting to feel hopeful.

Does anyone know the story about the Chinese farmer who lost his horse? A farmer's horse runs away. All of his neighbors come by to say how sorry they are and how unfortunate he is. He says "Perhaps. We'll see." Later the horse comes back leading another horse. All of the neighbors come by to say how lucky he is. He says "Perhaps. We'll see." His son falls off the horse and breaks his leg. Again the neighbors are sad. Then the Emperor's army comes to take all of the young men to war, but the son with the broken leg can't go.The neighbors congratulate him, etc.

Maybe our loss is going to work out different than we think.

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at November 09, 2012 11:58 PM (3PHCO)

333 >>> results were FIXED to MATCH the RCP average of polls that were skewed by DailyKos/SEIU in the first place for exactly this reason -- so that the MSM and dumbasses like you would say: See the results matched the polls so therefore everything that I listed (re: Obama's behavior and crowd size v. Romney, etc) that showed that Romney was winning and Obama was losing that you ignored by going right to the "polls" didn't mean what it actually meant. That's how revisionist history worked.
And don't think those DailyKos polls weren't done to do exactly that, the stress displayed by Obama was only trying to figure out how to explain the "freeze" of Romney's obvious momentum by taking focus off of the election for a while and if they hadn't lucked out with Sandy, they would have been bombing Libya the week before the election. And fools like you would have bought it because THE POLLS MATCH THE FIXED RESULTS.

Well, if that's so, then they're pretty feakin' smart and confident, especially compared to what we see here of the Romney campaign, and if America has to be a socialist country, at least it's got super-geniuses leading her.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 10, 2012 12:08 AM (SKX2R)

334 *competent

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 10, 2012 12:08 AM (SKX2R)

335 So the Romney campaign subbed out their mission-critical GOTV tech to smooth-talking, well-connected, insider consultants who took them for a ride by "harvesting value" from the contract.
What exactly is the problem here with that? Looks like just another fairly typical example of the free market system working out to the most efficient outcome. I think you're just jealous you didn't think of this long con first. And they got away clean with the cash, baby!
Ain't America great?

Posted by: melior at November 10, 2012 12:14 AM (YeE3m)

336 Fairly typical example, my ass!

Melior, your notion of a "free market system" seems to regard incompetents or frauds as de rigeur. They're not, in the sense that no one will ever entertain hiring those folks ever again. No thriving business for them!

Lets have you explain the "free market system" as being worse than the long-dead Soviet communist system, or for that matter, the Barakist crony capitalism that resulted in so many solar/wind companies subsidized by OUR MONEY that have gone boobies-up.

Wanna give it a try....chump?


Posted by: Jim Sonweed at November 10, 2012 12:31 AM (YwXwp)

337 Myself, I wanna know how Nate Silver can be lauded for his results, when he didn't predict the 9 million voter drop-off between this election and that of 2008.

How do you predict victory margins when you don't know how many people will vote?

Has anyone kept screenshots of his numbers right up until Election Day?

And...if he's so shit hot, why isn't he running his onw Wall Street firm?

Something's really fishy here...

Posted by: Jim Sonweed at November 10, 2012 12:35 AM (YwXwp)

338 Myself, I wanna know how Nate Silver can be lauded for his results, when he didn't predict the 9 million voter drop-off between this election and that of 2008.

-------

The Silver worship is hilarious. The fucking RCP averages predicted 49 of 50. If you took the state polls at face value then it wasn't all that hard. We just didn't do that.

Posted by: Rich at November 10, 2012 12:39 AM (arczc)

339 322 But you know? The majority of the country chooses to get their news from liberal-dominated networks. And most journalism students are liberals. They're biased as hell.
-
It's true journalism students are biased. If they weren't, it would be harder for them to pass their courses and get well-paid work.

But it's too simple to say that majority of the country chooses to get their news from liberal-dominated networks. Most people in all modern White countries get their information from sources that were not founded to be left-wing, and that once were seen as credible, objective information sources. And then, people are creatures of habit; they stick to the sources of bias they and their parents knew, and trust them. The left takes over these information sources, and gradually drives them into the ground, exploiting them for their propaganda value and not caring that they are wrecked. Case in point: Newsweek. On the other hand, if a source of information gives White people more of what they want, it prospers, like FOX.

The preferences of the White market would lead over time to biased information sources that reinforced White interests, but serial takeovers have led to biased sources of information that pervasively degrade White culture and encourage actions and speech that conflict with White interests. (And the pressure from the inside, from journalists and producers, is supplemented by the pressure of lawyers, and of academics, and of left-wing super-wealthy owners, who buy up media outlets like they establish think tanks, for the influence.)

The White working class is not the original author of its own doom. It is simply much less influential than those hostile to its interests. The influence goes down lore than it goes up.

Posted by: The Lightworker at November 10, 2012 12:59 AM (vbzPH)

340 "If ORCA had no relation to outcome, then tell me, what the hell was the point of the project?
Huge campaign resources were were committed to this project, both in
dollars and time by donors and volunteers, and you're going to shrug
your shoulders and claim it wasn't all that big a deal after all? This
is insulting to everyone who took time out of their schedule or skimmed
money from their ever-shrinking paycheck to put their trust in this
operation."

*cough*

Posted by: Gerry at November 10, 2012 01:01 AM (T4SG9)

341 "For the love of God man, Barack Obama banked roughly SIX MILLION LESS VOTES THAN 2008."

even so, he did still increase turnout, didn't he?

he got 6M fewer votes than in 2008 because alot of 2008 voters who voted in this election chose to vote against the president's re-election.

but the base? in particular, the low-income blacks and hispanics, who have typically been unlikely to vote in the past, for whom he's done so much?

they got turned out in larger numbers than last year. that's how he won...buy pumping up the black vote, just like he said he would.

and that's why many of the repub polls wrong...the likely voter screens were probably too stringent to catch some of obama's voters...not typical voters, and couldn't have been bothered in the past...but for a brother?

changes the game entirely...it's a massive, and growing, group of government-dependent, underclass voters who will vote for the democrat candidate no matter how little his party has done for them. if they keep getting so many to the polls in future election days, the republicans could be in a lot of trouble...

democrats would be foolish to ever run a white male presidential candidate again. -.-

it's time for a major rebranding, guys!

Posted by: jimi ray at November 10, 2012 01:17 AM (79EF9)

342 People cannot do everything like a revolutionary mass out of Battleship Potemkin. They need able leaders, with high status, correct ideas on where to go, and preferably the gift of the gab, wealth and connections. And to some point you have to trust your leaders, till they prove they are not up to the job.

Number 1: We've got this guy Not Sure. Number 2: He's got a higher IQ than ANY MAN ALIVE. and Number 3: He's going to fix EVERYTHING.

A lot of problems get solved by a three point plan like that one.

The Republican Party nominated Not Sure for President. He was supposed to be a turn-around business genius who would fix everything. He did his best, but he wasn't up to the job.

The Republican Party has nominated a lot of Not Sure candidates. Some win, some lose, and some like Not Sure Read My Lips No New Taxes do a bit of both. But on the whole, their record is not good.

Even when they get elected the Not Sure candidates don't do very well, because they take their lead from whoever is talking to them, and that's generally the mass media, which is liberal.

This is a much smaller problem than the demographic problem. But it is a problem.

Posted by: The Lightworker at November 10, 2012 01:24 AM (vbzPH)

343 It has shit all to do with "leaders", The Lightworker.

It's underlying biology, demographics, memetics, technological evolution.

Adapt or die (lose elections).

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 10, 2012 01:28 AM (SKX2R)

344 Damn, you secularists are dumb. Since you love "facts" so much,. why don't you find out what % of the voting population is Christian?
Then,
S
T
F
U

Posted by: Gerry at November 10, 2012 01:29 AM (T4SG9)

345 There is another take on this Orca thing.

Romney's claim to fame was as a dealmaker and, above all else, a manager. I was always looking for a clear indicator of what his managerial skills were precisely, but you could never figure out what he did at Bain or when. There was the Olympics, true, but that got a few billion from Washington, and good managers don't need government help, as Mitt has told us.

But Orca answers the question. In a major part of his campaign--actually getting all those Republicans to the polls--he failed just bloody miserably. The campaign did not send out "packets" for 30,000+ Romney pollwatchers until 10 pm est on Monday nite. It was a 60 page pdf, which these folks had to print and read and digest in time to be at the polls at 6:15 am on Tueday.

There was a "don't forget" list that included the suggestion to "bring a chair (if election officials permit). This was considered so important, Orca-wise, that it was repeated twice on the list--really.

But one of those chair reminders, apparently, was supposed to be a reminder to call the local elections office and GET PERMISSION to be a pollwatcher. Thousands of these people (many of whom I assume brought two chairs, as instructed by Romney's Orca team.) were just turned away.

I was a corporate lawyer for 25 years. Maybe he works well on smaller projects, where the odds are stacked in his favor. But I am gratified that his performance evaluation for his Orca work is so terrible that the country can be assured it dodged a bullet in yet one more way.

Posted by: rodger dodger at November 10, 2012 01:47 AM (SoumW)

346 No, the results were FIXED to MATCH the RCP average of polls that were
skewed by DailyKos/SEIU in the first place for exactly this reason -- so
that the MSM and dumbasses like you would say: See the results matched
the polls so therefore everything that I listed (re: Obama's behavior
and crowd size v. Romney, etc) that showed that Romney was winning and
Obama was losing that you ignored by going right to the "polls" didn't
mean what it actually meant.


That's a hell of a conspiracy. It requires the cooperation of the entire Republican party, too, as well as Mitt Romney himself.

Wonder why he would conspire against himself? Maybe he's a dumbass, too.

It's a shame he didn't have you on his team. We woulda beat the bastards!

Posted by: Llarry at November 10, 2012 01:51 AM (2+NQs)

347 I'm just proud that I foiled that evil super-genius George W Bush. Hee hee I got the documents.

Posted by: Dan Rather at November 10, 2012 01:52 AM (/A1Rb)

348 Project ORCA was pretty darn successful. A very successful model of the Hindenburg.

Posted by: Ron at November 10, 2012 01:53 AM (6bVkc)

349 343 It has shit all to do with "leaders", The Lightworker.

It's underlying biology, demographics, memetics, technological evolution.

Adapt or die (lose elections).
-
Leaders are part of biology, Samwise Gamgee the 3rd, and a very important part.

To survive, you need not only to win elections, but to govern competently in your own interest. Governing cannot be done without leaders.

This is a much smaller problem than the demographics. But it is a problem.

Posted by: The Lightworker at November 10, 2012 01:56 AM (vbzPH)

350 >>> Project ORCA was pretty darn successful. A very successful model of the Hindenburg.
Posted by: Ron at November 10, 2012 01:53 AM

About as successful as an exploded condom.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 10, 2012 02:25 AM (SKX2R)

351 This bears repeating:

In a major part of his campaign--actually getting all those Republicans to the polls--he failed just bloody miserably. The campaign did not send out "packets" for 30,000+ Romney pollwatchers until 10 pm est on Monday nite. It was a 60 page pdf, which these folks had to print and read and digest in time to be at the polls at 6:15 am on Tueday.

There was a "don't forget" list that included the suggestion to "bring a chair (if election officials permit). This was considered so important, Orca-wise, that it was repeated twice on the list--really.

But one of those chair reminders, apparently, was supposed to be a reminder to call the local elections office and GET PERMISSION to be a pollwatcher. Thousands of these people (many of whom I assume brought two chairs, as instructed by Romney's Orca team.) were just turned away.

---

That and not properly stress-testing the website to see if it could handle the load.

That and relying on a crappy html5 app in the first place.

That and not directing http to https.

Really?

Tons of people won't have known to do that.

That and not redirecting the www version to the non-www version.

But mostly what rodger dodger said.

A 60 page PDF sent out at 10 pm the night before, with old folks expected to be at the polls at 6:15 the next morning.

Not putting on their checklist that the needed to get permission to be a pollwatcher.

Like What. The. Fuck?

And the Democrats are micro-targeting voters based on the models of behaviorial scientists, including last-minute communications to not only ask them to turn out -- something the GOP campaign obviously failed to do in a lot of cases -- but tweaking their hot-buttons so that they eagerly wanted to.

The discrepancy between the two campaigns' competency level is glaring. It's beyond parody.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 10, 2012 02:35 AM (SKX2R)

352 When we ask how the Business Genius from Bain Capital failed to beat the Retard-In-Chief, part of the answer has to be that genius appointed incompetent workers to secure his election, while the stupid guy in the White House appointed competent workers to secure his re-election.

Stupid is as stupid does.

Posted by: The Lightworker at November 10, 2012 03:09 AM (vbzPH)

353 well, i looked back into history, since 88.

the D party has always gotten more than the raw count of votes as we go from year to year (even with Perot)......until this year when three vote was off a lot

D's highlighted in Blue

the same can not be said for the Rs. we win big sometimes, then have OFF years
Rs are italics 48,49,49, 50. 62., 69, 58

1988






Republican
Democratic

426
11126

48,886,097
41,809,074






1992







Democratic
Republican
Independent

370
168
0

44,909,889
39,104,545
19,742,267






1996


J




Democratic
Republican
ReformParty27

379
159
0

47,402,357
39,198,755
8,085,402






2000




Republican
Democratic
GreenParty

271
26628
0

50,456,002
50,999,897
2,882,955






2004




Republican
Democratic

286
25129

62,028,285
59,028,109






2008




Democratic
Republican

365
173

66,862,039
58,319,442







2012





Democratic
Republican

303
206

60,366,456
57,572,116




Posted by: npv at November 10, 2012 03:16 AM (2A0SC)

354 well, that didn't work....sorry


Posted by: npv at November 10, 2012 03:19 AM (2A0SC)

355 This is certainly a more thoughtful group than I find at other Conservative sites. It sucks. I know, I couldn't believe W. got elected to a second term.

Just a thought here, folks, because you all clearly have the real numbers game in hand, but to adding to that base:

People will not vote for you if you hold them in open contempt. It wasn't just the candidate, it was much of the mainstream conservative press that kept hitting the "they want free stuff" and "takers and makers" memes. Doesn't matter if you think that's true or not, people will not vote for you if you insult them. They will not listen to your ideas if you open your argument by telling them they are lazy and stupid.

When Obama was recorded in 08 saying, "People get scared and they cling to their guns and their religion" it was as grave a gaffe as the "47%", and recorded in the same environment, one of wealthy doners, but the very next thing he said was, "and we need to figure out how to reach those people." Romney said, "Those people are victims, they will never take responsibility for their own lives, they will vote for the president." That's why the latter had legs.

That wasn't just a Romney thing, that was a party thing. When Limbaugh and Coulter are out there carrying your banner, you're going to alienate new voters. You may love the red meat of secession and rise up and resist rhetoric, but it's alienating to people who are not already on your side. The same way that decent Conservatives feel about being accused of being racists, decent, hard-working people who might respond to conservative ideas are repelled by being called lazy, Libtards, or takers. Birthers did nothing but reinforce the "racist" meme. There's no other way to interpret it. Does it mean that if you're Conservative, you're racist? Of course not, but if the guy standing next to you is pumping that message, you've lost your credibility with anyone who isn't.

Everyone I know here on the Left thinks you guys will respond with a call for more ideological purity. That might work. But you might want to beta-test it on the general electorate, because the Conservative feedback loop that had people screaming at me that it was going to be Romney landslide, despite all evidence to the contrary, is not serving your interests outside of making you feel better when you're in it.






Posted by: BAD GUY at November 10, 2012 03:32 AM (85q65)

356 "This is certainly a more thoughtful group than I find at other Conservative sites." - BAD GUY

What's that mean, you're surprised we can say "fuck"?

ps - Even the pollster at HuffPost had Romney winning the popular vote. Win by under a point, and you have a 70% chance of winning the EC too...over a point and it goes into the 90s. It was no ridiculous prediction, thinking that Romney could win. He was up or down a point in all the national polls, except Pew (three points). And we had reason to expect high R turnout.

Some of your other points have some validity...but who cares...because.this.thread.is.now.dead.

Posted by: trickamsterdam at November 10, 2012 04:08 AM (uTBHY)

357 >>> Posted by: BAD GUY at November 10, 2012 03:32 AM (85q65)

That's a great comment. Election victories or not, it would probably be a better society if people took your advice.

More understanding and caring between people, while debating foreign policy, economics, and other ideals.

But as DrewM. posted here the other day (him, Ace, Gabriel Malor, John E., and others who are the mainline bloggers are pretty perceptive ... but that they're more intellectual than the commenters as a group, which I guess isn't surprising, just as Kos is more in the real world than most of his diarists) ...

... that 81% number of people who believe the Dem candidate cares more about people like them REALLY killed the GOP in this election.

You make a point I also made: that wasn't Obama vs. Romney. That was people's experience in dealing with a segment, a pretty big segment, of people on the right.

I had my own awful experience with that on this website here the other day (Ace and a few others were kind and decent ... many were beyond-the-pale evil, and the rest who didn't join in that, would nonetheless not say a word against it).

That 81% represents something real.

It's got to be the case that many Republicans are in that number, most moderates, and most Democrats.

And now me. Even I have to be in that number that believes that, by and large, leftists emotionally care more than rightists.

Not that their ideas make more sense, but that there's a bit of more a feeling tug in there somewhere.

Certainly it wasn't to be found here, not unless you were in the in-group.

Anyway, I'm torn at whether to abandon supporting conservative causes altogether as I was already center-right and never far right, or to stick with it for other reasons.

But it was personally off-putting and I'm sure that 81% is a huge part of why the GOP lost.

And most GOP voters say, "Yeah, but so what? It's just feelings."

Anyway, my personal take aside, yours was a wise and helpful comment, and it was nice of you to make it. I hope it's given serious consideration although I am not optimistic it will be.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 10, 2012 04:33 AM (SKX2R)

358 _______________________________

John,

Excellent work. And not just in terms of clear and informative reporting. More specifically: excellent analysis. And the fact that your reporting/analysis is anecdotal makes the conclusions you offer truly compelling.
Ironically, you're making me feel much better about the Romney loss. Because whether its failure was decisive, ORCA looks to be an unquestionably significant failure in Team Romney's effort to prevail. And after what you've elucidated, I would not rule out the possibility that its failure could conceivably have well been decisive.
One damn thing is for sure: Zac (and probably others) responsible for administering ORCA is covering his ugly ass in this miserable failure of a GOTV effort. Here's one motivational theory worth considering:
Those putting ORCA together ran into deep trouble getting it up and ready. Much like the Romney campaign itself (which I happened to and still generally happen to like very much), the ORCA faction was extremely insular and tight lipped. This probably wasn't much of problem until a couple of weeks prior to D-Day November 6th. But as time grew increasingly short, and the problems (general and specific) persisted, it was all but a mentally paradigmatic impossibility for the ORCA faction to realize they needed to let higher-ups know that they might not be in fighting form on D-Day. I mean, they were the computer-tech savvy gurus, right? They had promised to deliver a technological micro-turn-out effort competitive with Team Obama's, right? What were the non-techy higher-ups going to say if the ORCA faction suggested they were not up to snuff and perhaps not even... ready?? Team Obama sucked! Everyone could see that. Everyone. (I know I thought I saw it.) Was the ORCA faction really going to admit that they might suck worse than their counterpart faction within Team Obama?
Fat Chance.
Besides, along with EVERYONE ELSE rooting for Team Romney, the ORCA faction had sold-itself-on / bought-into the utterly wrongheaded notion that the conventional polling data was upside down and that Romney had a Solidly Safe Path to Victory. All he had to do was resolutely march into the Oval Office.
And that wasn't just the conclusion of Team Romney (ORCA faction included). That was the conclusion of virtually ALL OF US.
But with that in mind, it might have been all the easier for the ORCA faction (after genuinely giving its best effort) to conclude: "Hey, Romney's got this just about all sewn up anyway! We're at best just a bonus feature to the larger winning campaign. We'll cross our fingers, hope for the best, and come election day we'll also do our very best with the new system we have managed to formulate. Our system and backing efforts will probably all come more-or-less together. Besides, it primarily hinges on sincerely committed volunteers anyway. That's not a factor we can control.What we're doing is highly technical, groundbreaking, not easily understood by the non-technical, and it's extremely difficult to put together. We've done our best. And it's not like we really have to worry about failure. Because the experts who seem to really know who's winning this thing (like Rove, Barnes, and Barone) have basically per-ordained that our man Mitt has all but got this wrapped up."
Anyway, that's the general mental approach I suspect that the ORCA faction adopted as they realized their new technological GOTV system was going to be something less than optimally ready to go on election day.
By the way, sorry about some truly ridiculous and grammatically rash text (or other pontifications, musings, ramblings) tapped out through the ol' word processor via computer into the commentary-ether-sphere jhere on election night. Man that was a tough beat. we all felt it. And a little way too much in the way of spirits made it difficult to deal with it fairly appropriately. Now time to move on all embarrassment notwithstanding.
Happy to see sobriety, keen analysis, and overall good attitude prevailing here at Ace of Spades HQ such as to pull back in the wayward, the less than perfectly sober, and the less than temperate mentalities that flew a bit off the handle that unfortunate and fateful night. (I certainly don't blame Dewars. The only part it played is the one foolishly insisted upon.))
Thanks.




Posted by: _Dave_ at November 10, 2012 04:54 AM (J+Q+d)

359 Dave, I think your comment is thoughtful and well-considered, but I have a couple problems with it.

First, however, your general thesis that if turnout efforts were broken, these can be fixed, and the GOP can do better next time is eminently true. Can't argue with that.

Except ... one of the reasons the Dems did better was because of the higher-IQ intellect of its elite, in particular the high-IQ social scientists that trend Democrat.

I've said before, and it isn't exactly PC, but the evidence suggests that the current Democrat party attracts the highest (scientists, media elite, Ashekenazi Jews, academics, post-grads) and lowest IQ demographics, with the GOP attracting the middle (this is an oversimplification). So I'm not sure how much the GOP can close this gap, but they must try.

Even if it means going old school.

My other problem with your take is that you actually highlight just how widespread was the delusion.

I have personally been derided as an Eeyore/Democrat for the last 3 elections because I wasn't nearly as optimistic as the people on Conservative blogs. But you know what? I was overoptimistic in each case.

Just a lot less.

Most disturbingly, this massive, reckless overconfidence apparently extended all throughout the Romney campaign, up to the candidate and running mate themselves, and even the GOTV team.

Whereas the Dems were not only more competent, but their intellectuals and base more in touch with political reality.

I don't know what the answer to that is, but it is a problem, and I expect it to be optimistically shoved aside.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 10, 2012 05:05 AM (SKX2R)

360 I should have added Asian Americans to the short list above.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 10, 2012 05:08 AM (SKX2R)

361 Let me add this thought:

If this was purely a business logistics problem, Romney or whomever could simply hire the best and the brightest social scientists and others to get out the vote.

But because these folks are probably liberals and working for or support the Obama campaign, they can't.

So they're left with second-tier, Republican-leaning technical and logistical talent.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 10, 2012 05:14 AM (SKX2R)

362 355 Everyone I know here on the Left thinks you guys will respond with a call for more ideological purity. That might work. But you might want to beta-test it on the general electorate, because the Conservative feedback loop that had people screaming at me that it was going to be Romney landslide, despite all evidence to the contrary, is not serving your interests outside of making you feel better when you're in it.
-
I don't think there is a general electorate. Mass immigration and increasing polarization ended it. Rather there are electoral market segments with clashing interests and sentiments.

The Democratic Party is the anti-White party. It gets 80% of the votes from non-Whites, and it stands for expensive services for non-Whites to be paid for by heavy taxes on whites, plus Affirmative Action and continuing mass immigration. That's a nasty package, from the point of view of what's good for the Whites, but it's coherent.

The Republican Party is the White Party. It gets 90% of its votes from Whites, and it stands for reduction of government services and taxes, a strong military, the defense of Israel as non-negotiable, in practice whatever big business wants, and a raft of social issues about which it does little. That doesn't make sense.

1. If you get money from the government, which many Whites do, being elderly or put out of work by Affirmative Action, the party despises you as a taker and part of the 47%.

2. If you are in a union, the Republican Party wants to destroy your union. This means a bread-and-butter issue drives unionized Whites away from the Party. I think that's a problem.

3. The reduction in services never happens (unlike the reduced taxes). This means (high deficits, and) the party is always threatening services people use and need, but never demonstrating the up-side of the savings from ending them. In any case, many Whites don't identify "less taxes, less services" as a vital interest. (Others of course do - but the party doesn't strive to serve both sides only one.)

4. The strong military makes sense in principle, especially when you consider how many Whites are employed in the military, not only out of need for a job but for genuine and deep patriotic feelings. But the focus on Israel and the Middle East (as opposed to, say, guarding the border with Mexico) doesn't profit Whites in this world. Positive attitudes to God's Chosen People rationalize the wars to some extent, but the bottom line remains: many years, much blood, lots of money, no practical payoff. That policy is not getting more popular.

5. What big business wants, including off-shoring, mass immigration and special privileges, often conflicts with the interests of Whites put out of work, Whites that can't get as much for their labor due to illegal competition, Whites displaced by mass immigration, and small business, which is the real generator of employment and which doesn't thrive on special privileges for big businesses.

6. The party keeps promising social conservatives (who overlap to a great extent with highly religious Christians) there'll be action on their agenda Real Soon Now, while promising the libertarians that tomorrow will never come. Someone is being lied to, and it's the social cons, because the very wealthy people who control the Republican Party (but don't supply its votes or give its mass base a demographic future) are relatively liberal on social matters, and often secular or Jewish. Social cons can see that the ball never moves their way, Roe vs. Wade is as firmly established as ever, the Republican Party capitulates to moral innovations like gay marriage almost as fast as they can be invented, and when it comes to taking on the mass media, which is what you'd have to do to get the culture moving your way, nobody who matters cares. On the contrary, the wealthy establishment of the Republican Party cherishes Hollywood, because no matter how hostile it is to the values of the social conservative base, it's certainly a big business.

7. The people who run the party seem to care only about the next business cycle and the next election cycle. They are content to tag along behind liberals in social matters, not only because they have relatively liberal mores but because long-term cultural change falls outside their look-ahead. There is no pro-active long term planning, and no attempt to protect Whites as a necessary demographic base, Christianity as vital cultural capital, or anything else. Basically the ruling elite of the party is strip-mining its own support base.

This is incoherent.

It makes it hard to govern in a long-term viable way. On this basis, it's hard to build a record that you or your successors would like to run on, at a federal level.

And it creates a lot of problems in running for the top office, besides the obvious ones. I think a lot of what went wrong with ORCA comes down to:

1. Big business doesn't trust the base, including its activists. It would much prefer a technological bypass, super-centralization and micro-management.

2. Nobody in the Republican Party has authority to tell the half-smart "geniuses" of big business: stop and think about this! You might be wrong! Or: you are wrong!

You can see from my point of view, "more (or less) ideological purity" simply does not come into it. Being (originally) a social conservative (and now focused on race, because mass immigration and affirmative action have made that an unavoidable conflict, unless you are willing to sacrifice the interests and the future of Whites entirely), I generally prefer "right wing" policies, but I don't think there is any magic "principle" that will make everything add up right. It's a question of finding workable compromises, and that's all.

Posted by: The Lightworker at November 10, 2012 06:10 AM (hzA6e)

363 Well, I guess the choices are either a) keep telling themselves this in hopes they'll eventually convince themselves they didn't blow an election they should have won fairly easily or b) grow a spine and go to court to challenge the results in states where there was obviously cheating (Pennsylvania and Florida, I'm looking at you) or c) admit that their candidate just wasn't enough of a candidate to get typically disinterested people interested enough in voting to come out to get rid of the worst president at least since the Civil War. (shrug) Since b) requires a spine, so a no go there, and c) requires them to admit what a mistake it was to nominate someone like Romney (and again, I thought he ran as good a campaign as a Romney sort could run on a personal level), then they are sticking with self-delusion. No surprise there at all. For that matter, a lot of us allowed ourselves to get deluded to hell and back about how this was gonna turn out, too, so his campaign nitwits have a lot of company.

Posted by: davidinvirginia at November 10, 2012 06:28 AM (qEkGZ)

364 Sam, you get "personally derided" not because you're an eeyore (which you certainly are), but because you're a self-important, overly dramatic twat with a highly refined sense of grievance. Case in point, the use of "personally derided" just to underscore the fact that derision was heaped upon your person. (Personally, by persons still at large.) Other case in point, the constant misuse of paragraph breaks as though your comments are meant for dramatic reading. Last case in point, the weepy handwringing that maybe you'll just go be a donk because there's just no getting around the fact they speak to your twatty emotions, such as they are.

Here's a paragraph break for you.

Get over yourself.

Posted by: Ummberto Echo at November 10, 2012 06:29 AM (3X3ZR)

365
@BadGuy Your side never fails to call me an evil capitalist, racist homophobe every chance they get, but we're the ones who view people with contempt? Shinebox. Get it.

Posted by: Lurker who doesn't copy/paste from Word at November 10, 2012 06:32 AM (xfWVe)

366 >>> because you're an eeyore (which you certainly are)

Explain in a coherent, non-deluded way, how someone who overestimated performance in the last 4 consecutive elections is an "eeyore".

Are you suggesting that reality isn't the right measuring mark, and that the optimistic but wildly out of line with reality estimation of the group is, and that estimating a level of performance below this makes someone "certainly" an eeyore?

Regardless of the fact their estimate was optimistic compared to reality?

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 10, 2012 06:34 AM (SKX2R)

367 If somewhat optimistic compared to actual outcome is your definition of "eeyore", you must have a REAL bitch of a time dealing with REALITY!

Which is my point here, beautifully illustrated.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 10, 2012 06:36 AM (SKX2R)

368 Shouldn't they develop such resources within the GOP instead of letting campaigns start from scratch?

Posted by: Shorack at November 10, 2012 06:38 AM (+Typv)

369 Important THOUGHTS.

SEE?

Like a HAIKU, but twatty.

Posted by: Ummberto Echo at November 10, 2012 06:44 AM (3X3ZR)

370 I take that as a no, you admit defeat on that point, and couldn't possibly square that circle to make that argument, because it's absurd on its face. [leaving out a paragraph break on this one occasion to make you feel better] The only conclusion I can draw from your even trying to make it initially is that you value optimistic predictions over reality, and consider anything less than that problematic -- regardless of it being closer to reality. This is one of the biggest problems in the GOP. It's an important thought ... if you could be bothered to think it.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 10, 2012 06:49 AM (SKX2R)

371 Buy MY book of important personal mindthoughts.

IMPORTANT. MINDTHOUGHTS.

Posted by: SAM WISE at November 10, 2012 06:54 AM (3X3ZR)

372
OK, that's all good people, but a record number of people watched the debates, and there were all kinds of signs that there would be a big turnout - including people standing in long lines.

The biggest election in decades.

Well, why the hellweren't theremore votes? ORCA? If so, why the long lines? And wasn't there record early voting? Even if everybody decided to go towards Obama at the end, wouldn't Obama have done better? Wouldn't there at least me more total votes? People were really more excited about McCAIN? That just doesn't fly.

Wereall those people waiting in line simply thinking they were getting free coffee?

Or was that all an illusion? And people just got turned off by all the negative ads?

Posted by: Optimizer at November 10, 2012 07:01 AM (Mxt9o)

373 359 Except ... one of the reasons the Dems did better was because of the higher-IQ intellect of its elite, in particular the high-IQ social scientists that trend Democrat.
-
Hard to argue with that at this point, so I won't.


359 I've said before, and it isn't exactly PC, but the evidence suggests that the current Democrat party attracts the highest (scientists, media elite, Ashekenazi Jews, academics, post-grads) and lowest IQ demographics, with the GOP attracting the middle (this is an oversimplification). So I'm not sure how much the GOP can close this gap, but they must try.

Even if it means going old school.

360 I should have added Asian Americans to the short list above.
-
Your non-PC comments are fine by me. I'm not politically correct myself. (And if I was to guess which one of us would get ban-hammered first, m y money would be on me.)

I agree with your list and some of the implications, but I have no idea what you mean by "Even if it means going old school." Crass bribery? Thumbscrews to
obtain compliance by force? The White working class throwing itself at the feet of its non-White intellectual superiors and begging for a strong Asian or Jewish hand to take control? (Come back Leon Trotsky, all is forgiven?)

One problem with co-opting people who are more intelligent than you is that they are more intelligent than you. In a bargain that requires trust, you are likely to come up short if there is any lack of mutual good faith at all. Another problem is that if they were so like you that no conflict of interest could arise, they wouldn't be those people who are smarter than us, they would be us. That means they too will be aware of differences of interests, and racial, religious and ethnic differences exacerbate this problem.

The Republican Party has already made a tremendous sacrifice to bring superior Jewish minds on board. It invited them in, allowed them to purge all their rivals (the paleocons) and run the parts of the party they cared about as they pleased, especially foreign policy and (tacitly) demographic policy. The results have been very bad, and Jews are still liberal.

And the Republican Party has still come to ORCA. Where are the "geniuses" when you need them? Falsely predicting victory, and then calling for amnesty, as though adding tens of millions of non-White Democrat voters to the rolls could be anything but a disaster for the Republican Party and its mass base.

At the risk of being ban-hammered, I would say: come back Pat Buchannan, most is forgiven. The costs of inviting the neocons in was too high; the benefits are not adequate.

Posted by: The Lightworker at November 10, 2012 07:04 AM (hzA6e)

374 "Except ... one of the reasons the Dems did better was because of the higher-IQ intellect of its elite, in particular the high-IQ social scientists that trend Democrat. "

Sam, just come clean - you're Palinsteele.

Social sciences are a highly subjective joke. It isn't a science except by a technical definition of 'studying.' It isn't psychohistory or anywhere close to it

You guessed right last week. That doesn't mean every thought you have is correct. Hell, I proclaimed Mitt a loser back last December. Doesn't mean I know everything.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 10, 2012 07:11 AM (uhAkr)

375 368 Shouldn't they develop such resources within the GOP instead of letting campaigns start from scratch?
-
Development takes time. It would have had to have started under Michael Steele, who preferred to go on talk shows, squander money, and promote the Republican Party as the party of Blacks. What up?

Posted by: The Lightworker at November 10, 2012 07:12 AM (hzA6e)

376 One Ashkenazi to rule them all.

ONE.

ASHKENAZI.

Posted by: SAM WISE at November 10, 2012 07:24 AM (3X3ZR)

377 Optimizer, there are always long lines. 120 million people voted.

It looks like the Romney campaign did much better on early-vote organization than on the big day.

Don't think of "ORCA" as some new experiment, which sure it was in a sense, or at least how they went about it. Think of it as completely screwing up election day GOTV, an essential part of elections going back ages.

My point is it wasn't a trivial screw-up on the periphery. It was a screw-up of a core component of winning.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 10, 2012 07:26 AM (SKX2R)

378 >>> One Ashkenazi to rule them all.

>>> ONE.

>>> ASHKENAZI.

Why just one? Ashekenazi intelligence tends to hold across all economic classes within the community. The widespread dispersal of higher IQs within this group is why they make such a disproportionate impact in the sciences, in the media, yes, in banking, and is probably one of the absolutely main, but overlooked, reasons for the IDFs superior performance against Arab armies.

Even if (mirroring the Democrat party, which is also pretty socialist) the average IQ of Israel isn't higher than, say, European countries, it has a very high-IQ elite.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 10, 2012 07:38 AM (SKX2R)

379 I caught the humor. But IQ dispersal among nations, within nations, among regions, between the parties, etc., is important.

And I don't think the data supports that the Democrats are more intelligent, on average, than Republicans. It's roughly the same, but the shape of the distribution curve is different.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 10, 2012 07:40 AM (SKX2R)

380 Quit blaming ourselves. The election was stolen.

Posted by: Brett at November 10, 2012 08:39 AM (DlwSL)

381 Why the piling on of Mitt Romney? He was the best candidate we could have ran, amongst those who threw their hat in. Who could have done better?

And, his experience and knowledge of economics is what are country needs in a bad economy. If he cannot win, I think that says much more about the country and its citizens than it does about Romney himself.

"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

Posted by: Tickled Pink at November 10, 2012 09:51 AM (uCR70)

382 You guys are missing the point. Where's our Nate Silver?

Posted by: LLB at November 10, 2012 09:59 AM (CZGGV)

383 Who could have done better than Mitt Romney?

A committed socialist who has done his level best to divide the country on race and class lines, make a laughingstock of the US on the world stage, and run the economy into the ground via spending and regulation for four years. That's who.

Posted by: we're choomed at November 10, 2012 10:07 AM (3MiqD)

384 48
O/T, but there's something smoulderingly sexy about Liz Cheney.

Umm, she's not in your league.

CORRECTION: She's in your league, but not your conference.

Posted by: Alvin at November 10, 2012 10:15 AM (kvZWb)

385 someone should overdub this beached whale video from the 70's they decide to blow up, and it rains rotting whale carcas all over the place.

"well I'm confident it will work the only thing is I'm not sure exactly how much explosives it will take to disintegrate this..."

Sounds like the same crew as Romney's ORCA project...maybe a little less 3 stooges than Romney's gang.

Posted by: fark, farkety, fark fark fark at November 10, 2012 10:40 AM (bT79U)

386 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_t44siFyb4
there's the link...

Posted by: fark, farkety, fark fark fark at November 10, 2012 10:40 AM (bT79U)

387 In the closest states, the failure of ORCA combined with the success of the OfA equivalent directly contributes to the difference. Their ability to see who isn't voting and to get them to vote works.

The ORCA fail is, as I understand it, a fail at all levels, both tech and non-tech (not knowing phones aren't allowed in NC, for example).

But the worst part is, now there should be no excuse for not having a dossier on every single voter. Yes it's creepy, but it should be possible and after Narwhal OfA has one. There's no excuse for not knowing precisely why Berg lost so many Romney voters, or Heller won in spite of losing Nevada, and figuring out how to solve this for 2014.

Sure it's only one part of a long-term strategy, but it's a start.

Posted by: Moron X at November 10, 2012 10:44 AM (nlp31)

388 Okay, that is the final straw. After slogging through the McCain disaster last time, then project DORCA this cycle, I'm done. The republicans are dead to me. This level of incompetence and contempt for volunteers and donors must not be rewarded.

I'm going down to the registrars office next week to become an Independent.

Oh yeah,.and Fuck You Zak, you douchebag hipster Mofo. The only "digital directing" you did was to stick your finger in the wind and your thumb up your ass.


Posted by: Joe Mama at November 10, 2012 11:03 AM (JJ+PT)

389 I think the problem relates back to the slate of candidates running for the nomination. Why, given the manifest harm to the country and the palpable weakness of Obama and the Ds (especially after 2010) , did no one of any political skill not compromised by past failure or indiscretions, run? It was, and remains, this country's hour of need and no one of quality stepped up? (Perry did, but promptly blew it by either phoning it in, or scheduling his surgery to coincide with the nomination contest - smart)... with most of the governerships in hand, you'd think someone of competence would have shown up...

Why did ROmney, who so ably shanked his primary opponents, turn into a wussy and fail, completely, to fight democrat fire with fire? they'll do anything to win, and Romney seemed that way in the primaries, but immediately turned into a wimp, let the media and democrats define him, ran away from winning issues, and in general acted like he thought he was winning from day one so why rock the boat?

maybe the pollsters and consultants were running a big scam on Romney and co - Its still shocking that he managed his campaign so poorly, but i guess if he thought he really was ahead, with the 2010 midterms as the baseline, so there was no need to fight like you're behind...

There are two inescapable truths here - one, the Rs really are "the stupid party" (while the Ds are "the evil party"), and the approach they take to elections definitely shows it. Two - people whose natural home is in the R party (whether socons pompously not showing, or libertarians throwing a temper tantrum, or blue collar workers in the private sector who are getting decimated by the Ds war on traditional heavy industries offended because Romney was portrayed as Montgomery Burns deciding to phone it in) are acting like fools, watching the country they were bequeathed turn into Greece with exponentially worse debt, all because they pridefully insist on having it their way.

Sure, it would have been nice if the RINOs in charge were more sensitive to the unstable coalition winning R campaigns produce, but at some level you have to compromise and take the lesser of two evils, then work to hold the R president to his promises. Otherwise, we end up with what we've got - a destructive loser of a D president hell bent on ruining this country and well along in his plan to do so.

Romney's not 100% on board with this or that, so I'm not voting. Maybe that would not have overcome the obvious problems with the management of Romney's campaign and GOTV effort (which was pathetic), but it could have if the R party was not so infested with 'my way or the highway' fools (how about you get some of what you want, instead?).

Great, now you've gotten Obama and Reid with the whip hand over timorous Boehner.

Like I said, the "stupid party".

Posted by: fark, farkety, fark fark fark at November 10, 2012 11:30 AM (bT79U)

390 So Team Romney was a bubble filled with arrogant jackholes. Fancy that.

Posted by: Y-not at November 10, 2012 11:32 AM (5H6zj)

391 388
Okay, that is the final straw. After slogging through the McCain
disaster last time, then project DORCA this cycle, I'm done. The
republicans are dead to me. This level of incompetence and contempt for
volunteers and donors must not be rewarded.

I'm going down to the registrars office next week to become an Independent.

Oh
yeah,.and Fuck You Zak, you douchebag hipster Mofo. The only "digital
directing" you did was to stick your finger in the wind and your thumb
up your ass.




Posted by: Joe Mama at November 10, 2012 11:03 AM (JJ+PT)

Maybe these guys needs a friendly reminder that people are upset with them.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at November 10, 2012 06:30 PM (AWmfW)

392 I'd like to focus more on the devs. Not the marketing consultants. The devs.

Al Gore's former dev? THAT's who ORCA was resting on? Huh?

Posted by: Catherine Fitzpatrick at November 10, 2012 07:51 PM (xPiev)

393 >>> Al Gore's former dev? THAT's who ORCA was resting on? Huh?

As I said above:

Let me add this thought:

If this was purely a business logistics problem, Romney or whomever could simply hire the best and the brightest social scientists and others to get out the vote.

But because these folks are probably liberals and working for or support the Obama campaign, they can't.

So they're left with second-tier, Republican-leaning technical and logistical talent.

--

Also, comment 359, etc.

http://minx.cc/?blog=86&post=334825#c19661347

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 10, 2012 09:32 PM (SKX2R)

394 @Samwise I take your point, that if you just go out in the market and try to buy the best and the brightest, they might not come for any money. But I think something else could have happened: they did come for any money and then they deliberately screwed it over. Possibly with casual negligence. Possibly with more briskly aware sabotage. But they did wreck it, those are the results. And Zac Moffat and these other tekkies probably don't even have to worry about how they will get jobs again. Many people in tech would WELCOME their sabotage of the Romney campaign and slap them on the back.

Even so, I do think that with more due diligence, you can make sure that the dev for Al Gore's campaign isn't the person you hire into your shop, and that you don't set the job on the shoulders of only a few young devs, especially if they are Obama voters uninterested in the campaign and obviously without passion for it.


Posted by: Catherine Fitzpatrick at November 10, 2012 11:34 PM (xPiev)

395 Yes, and my broader thesis is that in general the Democrats attract the most intelligent people who feel a responsibility to look after (direct, and control) others, as well as the least intelligent people who feel a desire to be provided for. Whereas the Republicans attract the people whose intelligence clusters nearer the mean, who feel a strong desire to look after themselves and family (and often church community) but less of an obligation to look after others.

That's very generalized and other factors need to be taken into effect such as tribal and race identification, so you have people who would not be in these broad intelligence ranges themselves, but vote largely in a block with their group based on the group mean.

And yes, I posit that this is largely biological not cultural.

As politically incorrect as you could ever get, and also in line with the evidence as such things tend to be.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 11, 2012 12:09 AM (SKX2R)

396 If ORCA had no relation to outcome, then tell me, what the hell was the point of the project?
Huge campaign resources were were committed to this project, both in
dollars and time by donors and volunteers, and you're going to shrug
your shoulders and claim it wasn't all that big a deal after all?


It's because you don't understand what you're talking about.

Orca is nothing but a networked, pseudo-real time strike list. It's a BFD as it provides real-time updates of voter turn-out, which can prove useful in corner cases on election day in close elections.

From an infrastructure stand-point, when you're trying to organize people and you can reduce long-term capital costs by replacing phone banks by a few technicians and get faster, higher quality data, it's a win.. It was to be a Romney-RNC platform that would be unveiled and then utilized going forward, helping to modernize the traditional model. That's it.

Even if it totally, 100%, failed
that has no effect on the propensity of voters to turn-out vis-a-vis
the partisan ID polling data.
To win, you don't need someone to call you
with a reminder to vote if you're part of a broader, fired up base
that's showing higher intensity that the opposition.


It's nothing but a process story that's being used by conservative
loyalists to obscure the deep demographic troubles for the
party.

Romney hit his marks -- he recapitulated Reagan in 1980's performance in the non-minority demos. Let that sink in. The only thing separating Reagan and a 45 state sweep and Obama bending you over is the fact that this country has changed irreparably.

Romney won Ohio independents by 10%.... even strike list apps serving up porn won't change a damn thing you idiot.

Orca is nothing
but a stupid fucking story that is being propagated as it's easy; it's
an easy substitution to not have to address the underlying situation.

Posted by: Uriah Heep at November 12, 2012 09:02 PM (jhI6f)






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