Obama Didn't Win By Turning Out Blacks To Vote.
He Won By Turning Off Whites From Voting.

I've repeatedly quoted this Larry Sabato analysis, back from early June.

The data in Table 1 show that compared with voters supporting a candidate, swing voters were disproportionately white and female. They were also much more likely to describe themselves as completely independent and much less likely to describe themselves as Democrats or independents leaning toward the Democratic Party. But the most dramatic differences between swing voters and voters supporting a candidate involved their opinions about President Obama and their enthusiasm about voting in 2012.

Swing voters had much more negative opinions of President Obama’s job performance than other voters. In fact, their opinions were almost as negative as those of Romney supporters. Only 11% of swing voters approved of Obama’s job performance compared with 6% of Romney voters. In contrast, 92% of Obama voters approved of the president’s job performance.

But while swing voters were similar to Romney voters in their evaluation of President Obama’s job performance, they were much less enthusiastic about voting. Only 19% of swing voters described themselves as extremely or very enthusiastic about voting in 2012 compared with 47% of Romney supporters and 50% of Obama supporters. And 58% of swing voters described themselves as not too enthusiastic or not at all enthusiastic about voting compared with only 27% of Romney supporters and 21% of Obama supporters.

I wrote, sort of obviously:

Obama, in fact, may be hoping for a rather low turnout election -- or at least a low turnout among these voters. His base, as ever, he wants to greatly turnout. But these voters -- he'd prefer keeping them bored and on the fence and not bothered with voting.

That's exactly what he did. For lower-income male and female white voters both, he ran a series of ads slamming Romney as a heartless Plutocrat who wants to take their jobs and give them cancer. For female white voters in particular, he ginned up a "War on Women."

For both of these attacks, the Republicans armed Obama with mighty knives-- Romney offered up his infamous 47% quote. Akin and Mourdock told women that if they were raped, they'd make sure the law required them to carry the rapist's child to term.

But this was Obama's plan from the start: Drive people away from the polls. Specifically, the large number of people who were disatisfied with him but who weren't sold on Romney.

And he did get them to sit this one out.

First of all, the figures we have so far... suggest to me that the story of this election is not massive turnout of the Democratic base but exceptionally depressed turnout of a portion of the electorate that, when it votes, tends to vote Republican. Those were after all the two parts of President Obama’s cynical and substance-free campaign strategy: to work the most intensely committed and reliable parts of his base into a frenzy while persuading the least committed and reliable part of the Republican base (white working-class voters) that Mitt Romney didn’t deserve their support so they should just sit it out. Much of the post-election analysis has focused on the sophistication of the former effort—finding every last tiny niche in the patchwork of clamoring interest groups that makes up the Democratic coalition and telling it exactly what it wanted to hear. But the election returns suggest the latter effort—using any low and mendacious tactic required to tell working-class voters (especially white, Midwestern ones) that Mitt Romney was an evil and uncaring plutocrat—was by far the more successful and important. Those voters were not going to support Obama, but they could be kept away from Romney, and evidently they were.



The full crosstabs of exit polls are not available yet (or at least not to me), but the information we do have allows for a fairly clear picture of this. As Sean Trende points out today, the lower turnout in this election was driven almost entirely by lower turnout among such voters. “The increased share of the minority vote as a percent of the total vote is not the result of a large increase in minorities in the numerator,” he notes, “it is a function of many fewer whites in the denominator.”




This is both bad news and good news: It means Republicans are indeed vulnerable to attacks that paint them as plutocrats, but it also means that the demographics of the electorate have not turned decisively against them. The voters that could carry Republicans to victory are there, but far too many of them did not vote this time.

I think it's mostly bad news. We call Obama's strategy cynical, and it was. But it was more than that: It promoted cynicism.

He wanted voters to think that "The System" was a rigged game, and that their situation was hopeless, and that there was therefore, no point in voting.

He accomplished just that.

Many voters have dropped out of the voter pool over the years as they've decided that government just doesn't matter, that nothing can change, that it's all a corrupt game.

Obama -- the candidate of Hope and Change, the putative Lightworker -- actively worked to convince ten million Americans of that, and convince them to give up their civic duty and hard-won right to cast a vote in self-government.

Posted by: Ace at 07:16 PM



Comments

1 Ace, Medved said the same thing today. Obama spent a billion on negative ads early, with intent to make it a low turnout election. Many on both sides stayed home due to the negativity. Only way a marxist can win

Posted by: Jack J at November 08, 2012 06:26 PM (t4nf+)

2 Those that sat out are Obama voters every bit as much as those that directly cast votes for the SCFoMF. May they reap the consequences of their (non) actions as much as those that directly voted for Obama.

Posted by: thirteen28 at November 08, 2012 06:27 PM (v7/J1)

3 Christ, it looks like I'm first! What the hell do I do?

Posted by: tubal at November 08, 2012 06:29 PM (BoE3Z)

4 Oohhh, invisible post.

Posted by: ChrisValentine at November 08, 2012 06:29 PM (j6QBF)

5 !st?

Posted by: tubal at November 08, 2012 06:29 PM (BoE3Z)

6 And all this analysis is good for what? We lost. The GOP doesn't want to change nor will they ever be conservative. We can look forward to cap and trade, gun grabs, inflation, attacks from other countries on our homeland and no one who will protect us or the Constitution.

And yes, although I amusually optomistic, today I am cynical bitch.

Posted by: Infidel at November 08, 2012 06:29 PM (Vk6ZI)

7 Well, then. At least with this strategy they can't "kill" each and every House and Senate candidate come next election.

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 08, 2012 06:30 PM (UypUQ)

8 That is why we need someone who can motivate them next time, someone who can look comfortable going into a Walmart for example...someone who can speak their language. This is the one thing Reagan and Clinton both had in common...

Posted by: William Eaton at November 08, 2012 06:31 PM (rwioF)

9 What William said.

Posted by: Y-not on the phone at November 08, 2012 07:19 PM (5H6zj)

10 Ace he did this with the expressed help of the media.

Remember George Stephanopolous asking Romney a question about contraceptives randomly in a debate and everyone going why the fuck did you ask that? and then miraculously that weekend Obama forces catholics to pay for it?

Remember that shit? It was done in conjunction with the media. Imagine if Romney had said, oh thats a states rights question, and if they vote that way then yes sure. He would have been crucified.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at November 08, 2012 07:19 PM (++kZl)

11 I think I detest those who stayed home almost as much as those who voted for free condoms and revenge.

Sheesh.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 08, 2012 07:19 PM (XkWWK)

12 If they won't vote, the. We need to fill out their ballots for them and send them in. I'm sick of democrats having a monopoly on election stealing.

Posted by: Truman North at November 08, 2012 07:19 PM (I2LwF)

13 My little attempt to fight back is to stop all charitable donations other than to military groups. I know three other people who have stopped as well. None of us are giving a penny to Obama voters.

Posted by: Timwi at November 08, 2012 07:21 PM (pdhxN)

14 I still don't believe the people here saying that the GOP base didn't turn out.

What Obama did was convince a helluva lot of white people who voted Obama in 2008 to sit home in 2012 rather than vote.

Romney won independents +5 . . . but what were the raw numbers? To me, it seems that TFG kept all of the independents home.

Also, remember - the votes haven't been counted yet. I remain convinced that Romney slightly outdid McCain when all the votes are counted.

But Obama kept all of his disappointed white voters from voting at all, rather than considering Romney

Posted by: The Q at November 08, 2012 07:21 PM (w4fEE)

15 Military votes went 50% to Obama.

Posted by: Truman North at November 08, 2012 07:22 PM (I2LwF)

16 He won with a software patch to tabulation machines that caused over 9 million white voters not to be counted.

Democrats were down 10 million from 2008. Republicans were down 3 million. Who the FUCKING HELL were all those people in line on election day? Why were polling places forced to stay open for hours after closing?

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 08, 2012 07:22 PM (hlUJY)

17 MSNBC to report on the disenfranchising of millions of American voters in 3..2...1...

Posted by: AndrewsDad at November 08, 2012 07:23 PM (C2//T)

18 Don't just blame Obama.

The GOP also turned off the voters... Both by the ridiculous statements of Akin and Voldemort (or whatever) and more so by running up a 5 trillion dollar deficit during the Bush years.

The GOP blew its claim to "fiscal responsibility" then. It's hard to get that back.

Posted by: Kasper Hauser at November 08, 2012 07:23 PM (7x9pP)

19 I really don't give a shit about this.


I just want to know if this Allen guy really has a blog?

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at November 08, 2012 07:23 PM (wR+pz)

20 yeah I talked to some of these people on the phone..they hate everyone and think voting is stupid. It's not part of their lives, or "they're all crooks" which makes things simple for them.

We probably need a simpler more cartoonish candidate to get them now. Jesse Ventura or some shithead like that.

Posted by: Jeanne the Obscure at November 08, 2012 07:23 PM (cFVV7)

21 Democrats were down 10 million from 2008. Republicans were down 3 million. Who the FUCKING HELL were all those people in line on election day? Why were polling places forced to stay open for hours after closing?

This.

Posted by: Truman North at November 08, 2012 07:24 PM (I2LwF)

22 15 Military votes went 50% to Obama.
Posted by: Truman North at November 08, 2012 07:22 PM (I2LwF)


The People's Liberation Army, no doubt.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 08, 2012 07:24 PM (XkWWK)

23 Ace, could you please feature an article about all the small businesses laying off employees to get under the ObamaCare rule of 50 employees? Story at Twitchy and all over Twitter.

Posted by: TD at November 08, 2012 07:25 PM (DQMcq)

24 I just watched the gangnam style video for the first time.

Now I know what it's like to be an Obama voter

Posted by: Rick in MB at November 08, 2012 07:25 PM (2ocJB)

25 Krispy Kreme ate all the ballots...

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 08, 2012 07:25 PM (XkWWK)

26 We've talked a lot about the "Honey Boo Boo" voters, the LIVs. But I've just found out that description, what we think of as a LIV, is inaccurate.

My wife's uncle is a very well educated man, highly intelligent by all appearances and an analyst for the NSA. Which makes this scary and disheartening. He informed my MIL (his sister) and my FIL that he voted for TFG. They both went ballistic on him. My FIL at one point says, "For fuck's sake! He borrowed and spent a trillion damn dollars on a stimulus and those companies are all going belly up! He shouldn't be financially supporting specific companies and he damn sure shouldn't be doing it with our money when we're in massive debt!" Wife's Uncle was flabbergasted. "Wait, he did what?!?"

That, ladies and gentlemen, is the face of the American electorate. The LIV.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 08, 2012 07:25 PM (GEICT)

27 @21 TN

So I bet Boston was not much fun Tuesday night. Thanks for going.


Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at November 08, 2012 07:25 PM (wR+pz)

28
So all that negative campaigning that media pundits tell us Americans just hate actually works pretty damn good

Posted by: kj at November 08, 2012 07:26 PM (AW9md)

29 Oh, hell. Quit being a cipher. Original thought is accepted.

Posted by: butternut at November 08, 2012 07:26 PM (nbYoV)

30 I'm just and old white man. Apparently the GOP has too many of me. I didn't have a choice as to what color I would be, but I sure seem to be getting beat up for my color.

Posted by: Ronster at November 08, 2012 07:26 PM (nQMHQ)

31 So all that negative campaigning that media pundits tell us Americans just hate actually works pretty damn good

Yeah, pretty much.

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at November 08, 2012 07:27 PM (4+LTj)

32 Two homes during door knocking said they weren't going to vote. Another was undecided, a Black woman said she'd have to pray on it, not sure if she was going to vote.

Think people are so hurt financially and mentally strained and drained, that they weren't going to vote for O-man but couldn't bring themselves to vote for the rich guy who couldn't relate to their plight.

Posted by: Deli LLama at November 08, 2012 07:27 PM (lGu1O)

33 We had a real blast all day. After 8, it was like a morgue.

Especially the younger folks. You could see them, men and women both, holding back tears.

Posted by: Truman North at November 08, 2012 07:27 PM (I2LwF)

34 My little attempt to fight back is to stop all charitable donations other than to military groups. I know three other people who have stopped as well. None of us are giving a penny to Obama voters.
-------------------------------------

Yep! With you.

I just think people need to pay. I hate to feel that way..........but their apathy and racial identity voting drove me to it.

Posted by: Mitch & Murray at November 08, 2012 07:28 PM (AzwZn)

35 What if they gave an election and no Republican voters came?

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 08, 2012 07:29 PM (QKKT0)

36 And yes. Negative campaigning is dirty and shitty and everybody hates it. And it always, always works.

Posted by: Truman North at November 08, 2012 07:29 PM (I2LwF)

37
I think I detest those who stayed home almost as much as those who voted for free condoms and revenge.



Sheesh.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 08, 2012 07:19 PM (XkWWK)


For me I detest the ones who stayed home more. Fucking squishes who can't take 10 minutes to look deeper into the issues and at least attempt to find the truth. At least the dumb fuck leftists know what they believe in.

Posted by: Adam at November 08, 2012 07:29 PM (/YJYi)

38 Negative campaigning is why politicians hire assholes like me.

Posted by: Truman North at November 08, 2012 07:30 PM (I2LwF)

39 There's also a reason the Obama campaign recruits and actually spends money on concern trolls.

"There's no point voting for Obama-lite!"

Posted by: lael at November 08, 2012 07:30 PM (tUcg9)

40 What Obama did was convince a helluva lot of white people who voted Obama in 2008 to sit home in 2012 rather than vote.
-----------------------------------

This rings true with the people I know who did not vote.

Posted by: Mitch & Murray at November 08, 2012 07:30 PM (AzwZn)

41 I'm sure those who stayed home will feel really great when they reap the whirlwind that is Obama. Ugh.

And I have no words for Obama. He is an evil, deceptive man, sending his minions to destroy a good man and divide a country just for his own gain. But he did leave people to die in Benghazi and went to bed so he could get enough rest for his campaign visit to Vegas. So I guess we shouldn't be surprised.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at November 08, 2012 07:31 PM (6zgse)

42 I think it was stolen. It smells of soros.

Posted by: TexBob at November 08, 2012 07:31 PM (pUOpM)

43 I don't suppose that calling us racists every other minute by the MFM had a thing to do with the depressed white turnout, either.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 08, 2012 07:31 PM (ccXZP)

44 Ace why does this squash guy have it in for you? It is personal. Is it because of pumpkin soup recipe?

Posted by: Long Island at November 08, 2012 07:32 PM (2liOw)

45 so?

Obama is a community organizer, this is what He is .

divide, divide, for power.

still at it
Mr. Agitator.

Posted by: willow at November 08, 2012 07:32 PM (hX8cq)

46 I'm gobsmacked. Obama pulled off the first skillful act of his entire shitty presidency.

Posted by: Cicero (@cicero) at November 08, 2012 07:32 PM (QKKT0)

47 Oh, and I forgot to add that the willingly state-controlled media is evil as well.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at November 08, 2012 07:32 PM (6zgse)

48 37 Posted by: Adam at November 08, 2012 07:29 PM (/YJYi)


Yeah. You are right.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 08, 2012 07:32 PM (XkWWK)

49 If I may and this is for whatever the color of the candidate, if the percentage of voters of the same race as the candidate is not at least close to parity to the actual overall voter split, then the percentage above the split is most likely racists. Since Obama got ~50%, then I'd expect about 50% of blacks to have voted for him, not exactly but at least near it. Given that the percentage was in the mid 90s, I can only conclude that somewhere around the 40-50% of blacks are demonstratively racists. Blacks did, without a doubt, contribute to the win for Obama. Blacks tend to be hit hard by a bad economy which Obama certainly sustained, yet they asked for more of it. Why?

Posted by: dogfish at November 08, 2012 07:32 PM (N2yhW)

50 >>Obama, in fact, may be hoping for a rather low turnout election -- or at
least a low turnout among these voters. His base, as ever, he wants to
greatly turnout. But these voters -- he'd prefer keeping them bored and
on the fence and not bothered with voting.



I pointed all this out yesterday in the comments, and in a 2 hour rant directed at my neighbor's cat for some reason.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 08, 2012 07:33 PM (b+jI9)

51 Ace, this is my take FWIW. I probably talked to a dozen people who claimed they were undecided about their vote. One common theme -- perhaps 2/3 of the people I talked to -- said they knew what the candidates' positions were and what their records were. These are pretty smart people. In the end, they believed that things were so bad, and the problems so intractable, they felt like neither candidate addressed the seriousness of the challenges we face.

Perhaps they had no motivation to vote either way, and just stayed home.

Oh. And Republicans hate vaginas.

Posted by: ObjectionSustained at November 08, 2012 07:34 PM (BS7Eq)

52 dogfish, I've concluded that to most blacks, voting for the GOP is like Jews voting for Hitler. Obama can screw them every which way, but they will never go for the scary Nazi who will put them in chains and send them back to the corn (cotton?) fields as soon as he's elected.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at November 08, 2012 07:34 PM (6zgse)

53 I mean He couldn't win with anything else.

His record sucks, He only has fear to use

successfully it seems.
But really it stll wouldn't have been successful if the media didn't spend 100% covering His ass. and 100% stabbing Romney and furthering the lies.

Posted by: willow at November 08, 2012 07:34 PM (hX8cq)

54 It wouldn't have anything to do with kicking the court appointed monitors out for an hour would it?

Posted by: Whatev at November 08, 2012 07:35 PM (2t6Gz)

55 "It promoted cynicism."

I'm with you here, ace. What remains to be seen is whether TFG's machinations, and likely disasters, in the next four years will create any cynicism in the other direction.

My fear? People are idiots, and will believe whatever TFG and his ilk tell them, because they think he's a good guy at heart. By my reckoning, "It's Bush's fault" has more legs than we want to acknowledge.

Posted by: jakeman at November 08, 2012 07:35 PM (96M6e)

56
My little attempt to fight back is to stop all charitable donations other than to military groups.

Kind of opens your eyes when you realize the people you're helping with your donations get on a bus and go vote to take more of your money doesn't it

Posted by: kj at November 08, 2012 07:35 PM (AW9md)

57 Heather McDonald on the Levin show now. Worth a listen.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 08, 2012 07:35 PM (XkWWK)

58 Why were polling places forced to stay open for hours after closing?


Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 08, 2012 07:22 PM

Doesn't really matter unless they were in OH, WI, IA, PA, CO...

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at November 08, 2012 07:35 PM (rzTDZ)

59 I am not aware of the comparison between the depressive effect of the D's efforts and the way that we treat the unaffiliated voters (e.g., I, L,"Paulbots," etc.), but I can say that the way that the Paul supporters have been treated by the GOP (as foregone GOP votes) really soured some of the unaffiliated.

I feel it's not forgivable to have sat this one out, but can we finally realize that treating unaffiliated voters as if they are stupid to not vote GOP is not a winning tactic.

Medved is particularly contemptuous and audacious with his constant "losertarian" refrain, and it is one of the reasons I stopped listening to him.

BTW, I am not affiliated but typically vote straight ticket GOP every election.

Posted by: Flounder at November 08, 2012 07:35 PM (Kkt/i)

60 re: "I don't suppose that calling us racists every other minute by the MFM had a thing to do with the depressed white turnout, either."

There's a silver lining. Unlike McCain, at least Romney didn't call us racists. Explicitly.

He did dog-whistle it with some Bushian immigrants-are-the-best-and-brightest shit, but hey. He wasn't, like, *comparing* them to anybody, right? To us? The not-best not-brightest? Naaaaah.

Posted by: oblig. at November 08, 2012 07:36 PM (cePv8)

61 There was massive fraud in Philly. Massive.

Obama won districts with Chavez like totals. 3rd world dictator -- 99.5% totals.

Massive fucking fraud.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 08, 2012 07:36 PM (ZPrif)

62 Fuck ofuckhole, and I hope that those that didn't like him but were too fucking lazy to get off the couch and vote for the alternative get royally screwed.

I mean, I am talking truly, royally fucked. I hope the lazy white men men lose their jobs because of the shitty oconomy, and can't find replacement work because they are the wrong sex, skin color, they prefer sex with women, or any other PD (Political Discrimination) bullshit employers and/or government can gin up.

And for the lazy white women who couldn't be bothered to vote. For the ones that don't lose their jobs thanks to the oconomy, I hope they all enjoy their upcoming minority bosses. Fuck that. Their black bosses. You know, the ones with attitude. And I hope that many of them enjoy the breast cancer that doesn't get caught early because of the reduced mamograms.

Fuck. Them. All.

Sound a little rough? Yeah, it does. But this is the world they decided Jr. Redneque has to grow up in. So I wouldn't want them to miss out on any of the benefits.

Posted by: Boomer Redneque is pretty much disgusted beyond words at November 08, 2012 07:36 PM (eQnzo)

63 This is the best explanation for why Romney underperformed McCain I've seen thus far. That's not saying much, cuz there a bunch of idiot floating shit out there- but this is the first time reation wasn't, "Fuck you, dumbass. Is that what passes for clever in you're neighborhood?" I still want real data and btter analysis, but the action plan remains the same: Burn. It. Down.

Posted by: Beefy Meatball at November 08, 2012 07:36 PM (i7B17)

64 fnord, Obamas plan was?
vaginas,
binders
divide everyone into fearful groups

anything else?
oh yeah
Hope and change
reduce the deficit
be non partisan
unite the country


coughing

Posted by: willow at November 08, 2012 07:37 PM (hX8cq)

65 Now I think we're getting somewhere. People say they hate negative but negative works. You have to start earlier than ever too.

People vote for dumb reasons and they are more apt to listen to how the other guy defines you than how you define yourself. We need to swiftboat people again.

Posted by: Dave S. at November 08, 2012 07:37 PM (UvR6d)

66 Blacks tend to be hit hard by a bad economy which Obama certainly sustained, yet they asked for more of it. Why?

Because tribalism is hard wired into our DNA, and there is no group on earth that has overcome it to the extent Western civilization has.

There is nothing unusual about racism. It is the normal state of humans.

What is unusual is that only nonwhites have been successful at harnessing government to their race's benefit.

Posted by: Truman North at November 08, 2012 07:37 PM (I2LwF)

67 Change the names to Obama, Fox and Tea Party and this is America in two years:

http://tinyurl.com/cgfee5y

Posted by: Daybrother at November 08, 2012 07:37 PM (+paCV)

68 62 There was massive fraud in Philly. Massive.

Obama won districts with Chavez like totals. 3rd world dictator -- 99.5% totals.

Massive fucking fraud.
Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 08, 2012 07:36 PM (ZPrif)


I would like to see the numbers in the key Ohio and Florida districts as well. If they mirror Philly, then all bets are off.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 08, 2012 07:37 PM (XkWWK)

69
I agree with the post except for that one thing: Obama did this, he did that, no, other people did that. He's a dumbass.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 08, 2012 07:38 PM (PHb2k)

70 Fuck, now Pixy is stealing letters- not content with spaces and ampersands.

Posted by: Beefy Meatball at November 08, 2012 07:38 PM (i7B17)

71 Leftists? Demonize Someone? Never!

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 08, 2012 07:38 PM (uvzjj)

72 3 Christ, it looks like I'm first! What the hell do I do?
Posted by: tubal at November 08, 2012 06:29 PM (BoE3Z)


*****************

Don't get so cute with the post so you can actually BE first. ;- )

(And really, was this a religious discussion?)

Posted by: Boomer Redneque is pretty much disgusted beyond words at November 08, 2012 07:38 PM (eQnzo)

73 Republicans' efforts to undo President Barack Obama's health care reform law appear to have come to an end, as House Speaker John Boehner described it Thursday as the "law of the land."




Can we get rid of the orange guy?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 08, 2012 07:38 PM (iM27A)

74 The Democrat Party? Be opposed to democracy? Never.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 08, 2012 07:39 PM (uvzjj)

75 And slash the social liberty that a lot of people know about.
----------------------------------

Social "liberty"?????

Don't you mean FREE SHIT provided by those who actually work for a living?

Posted by: Mitch & Murray at November 08, 2012 07:39 PM (AzwZn)

76 I think I detest those who stayed home almost as much as those who voted for free condoms and revenge.





Sheesh.



Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 08, 2012 07:19 PM (XkWWK)

For
me I detest the ones who stayed home more. Fucking squishes who can't
take 10 minutes to look deeper into the issues and at least attempt to
find the truth. At least the dumb fuck leftists know what they believe
in.


hear hear. The lukewarm. Christ had some particularly unkind words for them in Revelations. Dante had them just inside hell, being stung by wasps while they chased floating standards around for all eternity.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 08, 2012 07:39 PM (0q2P7)

77 We call Obama's strategy cynical, and it was. But it was more than that

Indeed. It was successful. Which is the greatest tragedy of all, I guess. Millions will be kicking themselves during the Starving Time.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 08, 2012 07:40 PM (QupBk)

78 He both turned out blacks and kept whites from voting.

Posted by: Hussein in the Membrane at November 08, 2012 07:40 PM (EX+sq)

79 They're so easy to read, even I saw the setup. Couple days before the election accuse republicans of vote fraud. Translation - we're preparing massive voter fraud.

Months leading up to election - Voter fraud is on a nano-level. One case in the history of earth to be exact. Translation - voter fraud is rampant. Almost the norm.

Just take what they say and make it the opposite. Take what they accuse, and call it a confession. Real easy and accurate 100% of the time on anything that comes out of their mouth.

Posted by: Whatev at November 08, 2012 07:40 PM (2t6Gz)

80 But another way to look at this is that the Romney campaign did not succeed in "energizing" the electorate.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 08, 2012 07:40 PM (uvzjj)

81 And the Phillly fraud precincts were big. Tens of thousands of votes.
Philly had 60% turnout. But the fraud precincts had 90%+ turnout.

3rd world dictator.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 08, 2012 07:40 PM (ZPrif)

82 I'm already preparing my kid for the Hunger Games.

Posted by: Hussein in the Membrane at November 08, 2012 07:41 PM (EX+sq)

83 In white voters defense. Especially the more knowledgeable conservative party. No one expected someone with a worse economic record than Carter to survive.

But we forgot. If you pay union dues it doesn't matter how suck of an employee you are.

Posted by: WheelmanForHire at November 08, 2012 07:41 PM (l8nIR)

84 Blacks tend to be hit hard by a bad economy which Obama certainly sustained, yet they asked for more of it. Why?
---------------------------------

Is this a serious question?

Their resentment of YOU is greater than any discomfort they may go through.

I never EVER heard blacks at work discuss TENNIS until Serena Williams started beating white girls.

Figure it the fuck out.

Posted by: Mitch & Murray at November 08, 2012 07:42 PM (AzwZn)

85 Those phila precincts are down from 2004, when the turnout was 104% of the voting age population.

It's Philadelphiatown, Jake.

Posted by: Stirner at November 08, 2012 07:42 PM (Ytuz8)

86 And now Obama's camp just wants to convince more people like Herman Cain that what we really need is a principled third party.

Posted by: Chairman LMAO at November 08, 2012 07:43 PM (9eDbm)

87 Don't tell me about blacks and whites, I just ate a whole sleeve of double-stuffed Oreos (goes great with black Russians)

Posted by: Cricket at November 08, 2012 07:43 PM (2ArJQ)

88 I don't even know what to say, and this might be incredibly mean to point out, but guess who won Staten Island? Take a wild ass guess. JEF. I just want to say to them, "You're in GREAT hands, FEMA can't possibly screw up you're recovery!"
Good grief. But... who am I to bitch? Virginia went blue because Fairfax and Loudoun county have decided they are magically protected from sequestration in their federal government contract jobs. Lord, January 1st can't come soon enough.

Posted by: rightwingva at November 08, 2012 07:43 PM (OJ/tZ)

89 @83 teach em how to throw a hatchet, it looked pretty cool in Last of the Mohicans.

Posted by: Chairman LMAO at November 08, 2012 07:44 PM (9eDbm)

90

The National Review -

blaming the plebs for not turning out to vote for their betters.

Color me surprised.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 08, 2012 07:44 PM (kdS6q)

91 Yet another thing I don't care about.

There are 330,000,000 people in this country. Some are under 18, some have Alzheimer's, some lost the franchise, some are illegal aliens.

Still, SCOAMT was reelected by 20% of the electorate--60,000,000 votes. They own him, and the assholes who didn't vote own him. I am serene; I did the best I could.

People who don't vote are the filth of the country. They elected SCOAMT as surely as the 20% Free Shit Army did.

Posted by: Palandine at November 08, 2012 07:44 PM (g7D8V)

92 Blacks tend to be hit hard by a bad economy which Obama certainly sustained, yet they asked for more of it. Why?
---
Because like all cultures of envy, they vote the guy that they feel will put more into their miserable boat.

Posted by: Whatev at November 08, 2012 07:44 PM (2t6Gz)

93 do we know where the votes were down?
if Romney lost votes in Texas, NY, California or Mississippi its irrelevant

Posted by: Avi at November 08, 2012 07:44 PM (40anC)

94 Exactly. Most blacks are racist. Watch a Chris Rock or Dave Chapelle show. Blacks are pretty open about hating white people.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 08, 2012 07:44 PM (ZPrif)

95 I don't think there was one silver bullet to this election, but this is what I'm leaning toward as a very big one.

"Many voters have dropped out of the voter pool over the years as they've
decided that government just doesn't matter, that nothing can change,
that it's all a corrupt game."

That is what I ran into a lot.

I have a lot of friends who loathe Obama. But they did not want to be enthused about Romney at all. As much as they think of Obama the same way most of us do here, they were fine with jokes that bashed Romney and Obama equally. They were fine, even, with calling both socialists (my nephew, who has done two tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan said that).

When I would run down Obama and say we had to vote him out, they were enthused in agreement. But as soon as I talked about the GOP or Romney, they would be nodding and not arguing with me, but you could tell they just didn't care.

They think illegals are going to take their jobs no matter who is in. They think gays are going to marry, abortion is going to continue, and their religion will continue to lose ground no matter who is in. They think affirmative action and welfare will expand no matter who is in.

And they aren't going to bother to vote or get excited for a rich guy who wants to cut taxes.

The flip side of this is the black vote IMO. You have many blacks whose situation is much worse since Obama was elected. They may not agree with him on some of the issues. But because of what he represents to them, they are still going to turn out.

Posted by: Nicholas Kronos at November 08, 2012 07:44 PM (WbGW2)

96 The GOP did some of Obama's job for him by nominating a candidate that no one was really fired up about.

Despite the fact that many came to like him, after many MONTHS of exposure, the rest of the GOP's voters just went really? Rich banker that not only can you not imagine having a beer with, but doesn't even DRINK beer?

Obama's no genius. The Socon stuff was a forced error, and Romney himself wasn't all that attractive to the base.

I said the depressed turnout and energy spent on Romney would kill us in the senate, and sadly, that came to pass -- and no president.

Bad strategy all the way around this time.

Posted by: That Guy at November 08, 2012 07:45 PM (LmEvg)

97 "Why were polling places forced to stay open for hours after closing?"

If you are in line, they have to let you vote.

Posted by: navybrat at November 08, 2012 07:45 PM (mpZsM)

98 87 Posted by: Chairman LMAO at November 08, 2012 07:43 PM (9eDbm)

A third party would give the Dems absolute electoral control, if not the bureaucratic control they already have.

But, the Republican party is utterly fucking useless. It must get back to conservatism or go the way of the Whigs. That much is true.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 08, 2012 07:46 PM (XkWWK)

99 "92 Yet another thing I don't care about.

There are 330,000,000 people in this country. Some are under 18, some have Alzheimer's, some lost the franchise, some are illegal aliens.

Still, SCOAMT was reelected by 20% of the electorate--60,000,000 votes. They own him, and the assholes who didn't vote own him. I am serene; I did the best I could.

People who don't vote are the filth of the country. They elected SCOAMT as surely as the 20% Free Shit Army did.

Posted by: Palandine at November 08, 2012 07:44 PM (g7D8V) "

Most people do and think whatever the TeeVee tells them to do or think.


The TeeVee and/or their animalistic instincts, I guess.

Posted by: Mirror-Universe Mitt Romney at November 08, 2012 07:46 PM (uvzjj)

100 I have been talking about this for years. It's all about voter suppression and as long as the repubicans were running a typical campaign they were gonna lose. They needed a candidate from outside the beltway who could connect with folks being told to stay home. Another huge anchor around our necks was Alex Jones and people like him. He and the Ronulans likely make up the lion's share of "independents" who stayed home.

Posted by: TrueNorthist at November 08, 2012 07:46 PM (3Aixx)

101 69
62 There was massive fraud in Philly. Massive.

Yea and swear Philly numbers were reported the minute polls closed. Polls just closed and O Team said "we won" lets move on.

Posted by: Deli LLama at November 08, 2012 07:46 PM (lGu1O)

102 70
I agree with the post except for that one thing: Obama did this, he did that, no, other people did that. He's a dumbass.
Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 08, 2012 07:38 PM (PHb2k)


"Obama" is shorthand for his evil thugocracy.

Posted by: Truman North at November 08, 2012 07:47 PM (I2LwF)

103 23 million people unemployed or underemployed. How many times did we hear that? That's not counting the people the used up their UE and are living off a spouse, parent or hand to mouth on cash jobs. You really think they're chomping at the bit to vote for the guy that promises to create jobs through limited government? They may not care for the leftist state-ism promised by the Democrats but they don't give a shit about free enterprise talk either. Look for more apathy in the future, not less.

Posted by: lowandslow at November 08, 2012 07:47 PM (GZitp)

104 Obama could send every minority person to work on a plantation for free and get whipped 2 times a day. And their main concern won't be replacing him, it will be that more aren't being sent.

Posted by: Whatev at November 08, 2012 07:47 PM (2t6Gz)

105 blaming the plebs for not turning out to vote for their betters.

I don't know if the Republican ticket was made up of betters or not but, if you didn't turnout to vote against the Most SCoaMF, you're definitely a lesser.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 08, 2012 07:47 PM (QupBk)

106 Same flavor of turnout numbers from Ward 14 in Boston as in Philly. Precincts with 4-6 voters (out of 800-1000) for R/R.

Posted by: Kevin in ABQ at November 08, 2012 07:47 PM (BvTwT)

107 3rd parties are useless in winner-take-all elections. It's better to create a faction within one or the other.

Posted by: Hussein in the Membrane at November 08, 2012 07:47 PM (EX+sq)

108 >>>You Had No Plan. And so you lost.

Oh no. Don't try and convince us that a poor plan resulted in a loss. Your guy was a walking tower of epic fail as a leader. It takes more than just a poor plan to lose to that much pure refined suck. A lot of fundamentals have to be seriously wrong. Ultimately I think you won because overall America has grown to like (Or at least be curious enough about it) socialism so much as to give it a try or at a minimum in this case, make no effort to stop it. You won the big long battle. You've beaten us. There is no conceivable way we can even return to the Reagan ideologies inside of the next 20 years.

Now get busy with that carbon tax. And bunches of taxes on the rich. And for God sakes regulate those corporations a whole bunch more. Quick! My wager in the econogeddon pool is by Christmas.


Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 08, 2012 07:48 PM (0q2P7)

109 Remember in 2010 when Jim Geraghty was constantly talking about that guy
he called Obi Wan who knew everything about politics and correctly predicted the 2010 landslide?

Did
anybody hear Jim Geraghty even mention Obi Wan once this year? Because
unless Obi Wan was finally struck down by Vader, I would think JG would
have wanted us to know what his great infallible sage was saying about this.

The
point I'm trying to make is that we're developing the same problem with
cocooning and epistemic closure on our side that has been plaguing the
left for some time now. Anybody who didn't think Romney would win in a
landslide was castigated as an Eeyore or a Moby (I knew it wold be very
close, which is why I didn't post here much since August), but it turned
out that our pundits were blowing smoke up our asses. And as I said in
the other thread, this probably hurt us a lot. If it's taken as a
foregone conclusion that your candidate is either going to win or lose
in a landslide, some on your side who aren't crazy about the nominee
will be less motivated to vote or to vote third party. Even if said pundits
truly believed it, they should have kept their fucking mouths shut about
it and said it was going to be very, very close. I'm not blaming Ace or CAC or anybody else because they were following the lead of people they thought knew more than they did. I'm talking about high-level people like Karl Rove and Dick Morris, both if whom should shut the fuck up and disappear for the next couple election cycles.

The fact that
ORCA turned out to be a FailWhale compounded the turnout problem. The
fact that this guy has been running for POTUS since 2006 (if not
earlier) and didn't have his something as elementary as his GOTV
mechanism tested and tuned to perfection blows my fucking mind. He ran
in two consecutive primaries. There is absolutely no excuse not to have
had this shit working properly, especially when his main selling point
is what a competent manager he is. How you can run a large business
successfully, run a state, and run the Olympics and fail at this kind of basic organizational shit is
beyond me.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at November 08, 2012 07:48 PM (KSjsb)

110 Hethes gonth to put me back in CHAINS. dweamy!

Posted by: Bwaney Fwank at November 08, 2012 07:49 PM (QX1B1)

111 Since Obama got ~50%, then I'd expect about 50% of
blacks to have voted for him, not exactly but at least near it. Given
that the percentage was in the mid 90s, I can only conclude that
somewhere around the 40-50% of blacks are demonstratively racists.
Blacks did, without a doubt, contribute to the win for Obama. Blacks
tend to be hit hard by a bad economy which Obama certainly sustained,
yet they asked for more of it. Why?


Posted by: dogfish at November 08, 2012 07:32 PM (N2yhW)
I've said this again and again. Blacks have been taught that blackness is an accomplishment. This "black pride" was inculcated to counteract the notion that African heritage was a source of shame--an idea that was very real before the sixties. Yes the cure has become worse than the disease and, to be sure, a lot of black people are racist against whites.
But when I talked to my stepdad and a couple of other conservative black men (who voted for McCain and Romney), they all said they felt a twinge of this pride back in 2008--that they had lived to see a day they never thought they'd see. Most of the rest of us--of any color--aren't that self-reflective.Get over it.

Posted by: baldilocks, AfriCon American at November 08, 2012 07:50 PM (Su0W2)

112 Many voters have dropped out of the voter pool over the years as they've decided that government just doesn't matter, that nothing can change, that it's all a corrupt game.

Point of no return, meet America.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows we are now Airstrip One at November 08, 2012 07:50 PM (AZGON)

113 >>>blaming the plebs for not turning out to vote for their betters.

If you sat this one out, the furthest you have to look for your betters is the nearest "I Voted" sticker. That includes the Obama voters.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 08, 2012 07:50 PM (0q2P7)

114 D'ya see how white those Benghazi guys were?

Posted by: Kindle Opus Anarcus at November 08, 2012 07:50 PM (Zqz8w)

115 Nicholas @96:

This is why we need to vote for them. If they can be bothered to register and not to vote, then we need to do it for them.

I am sick and tired of only democrats stealing elections.

Posted by: Truman North at November 08, 2012 07:51 PM (I2LwF)

116 I live in california and i got out and voted just to cancel out some crackheads vote who got paid 10 bucks and a hot lunch to cast a ballot for Obama

Posted by: kj at November 08, 2012 07:51 PM (AW9md)

117 > Anybody who didn't think Romney would win in a landslide was castigated as an Eeyore or a Moby

I first posted here early in 2012 to basically say that no one I know was gelling with Romney (this was before he was nominated), and worse, were either going to vote third party or not at all (I'm in CA, they voted for Gary Johnson).

Everyone said I was nuts, and (impolitely) told me to fuck off and die.

Just like they're doing now on other threads.

Anyway, great post. You nailed it.

Posted by: That Guy at November 08, 2012 07:51 PM (LmEvg)

118 I'm strongly in favor of overthinking this.

Too few people gave a shit because too few people pay attention.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 08, 2012 07:52 PM (Qxe/p)

119 Blacks tend to be hit hard by a bad economy which Obama certainly sustained, yet they asked for more of it. Why?

---

Because like all cultures of envy, they vote the guy that they feel will put more into their miserable boat.

Posted by: Whatev


This cannot be totally accurate. Ending racial inequality was done by the group that had the upper hand. Now whites, frankly anyone no matter what the color with any thoughtfulness of others, are simply taken advantage of.

Posted by: dogfish at November 08, 2012 07:52 PM (N2yhW)

120 I thought that Nixon or Pat Buchanon mentioned the theory in your post many moons ago. Get roughly half of the country to vote for you, and alienate enough people who would never vote for you not to vote and you will win. I personally was always going to vote; but by election day, I was just ready to get it over with. Romney getting roughly the same number of votes as John Mccain, while winning the Independents by a decent margin, shows that a people weren't all that pumped up for Romney. I think Romney started out slow and gained momentum and support over time; but he needed more initial support and momentum to get over the hump. And Obama got far fewer votes than last time, but he got every idiot in the country who can still stand him out to vote. Romney needed all of the idiots who voted for Obama in 2008, who now can't stand Obama to vote for Romney. It appears these idiots didn't vote at all.

Posted by: Tom at November 08, 2012 07:52 PM (mbfn/)

121 101 "Another huge anchor around our necks was Alex Jones and people like him.
He and the Ronulans likely make up the lion's share of "independents"
who stayed home"

Actually, they all turned out to the polls. Gary Johnson got the largest number of votes in the history of the Libertarian Party.

Posted by: The Q at November 08, 2012 07:54 PM (w4fEE)

122 You guys are interesting from an anthropological pov. Damn.

Shut up and eat your bark soup.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 08, 2012 07:55 PM (QupBk)

123 79
He both turned out blacks and kept whites from voting.

Posted by: Hussein in the Membrane at November 08, 2012 07:40 PM (EX+sq)
So the black turn out was what percent?

Posted by: baldilocks, AfriCon American at November 08, 2012 07:55 PM (Su0W2)

124 >>"Obama" is shorthand for his evil thugocracy.<<<

Yeah, I know I just don't want anybody confusing his campaign with him. Plus it gave me another chance to call him a dumbass.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 08, 2012 07:55 PM (PHb2k)

125 >>>Anybody who didn't think Romney would win in a

landslide was castigated as an Eeyore or a Moby

Hey, there was good reasons to assume both. The only way to make the numbers work was to assume that Romney would get less support than McCain. I just couldn't see that happening. If that is just some super delusional optimism on my part so be it, but a large part of my rational mind STILL can't believe McCain got more votes than Romney.


Posted by: MikeTheMoose is Shrugging at November 08, 2012 07:55 PM (0q2P7)

126 Plus it gave me another chance to call him a dumbass.

Every day of the next four years, he'll give you a new chance.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 08, 2012 07:56 PM (QupBk)

127
Rick in MB @ 24:

I just watched the gangnam style video for the first time.



Now I know what it's like to be an Obama voter


You know what's worse? Barky and Moochelle were doing it gangnam style in the WH the next night...all over the place. Just remember, it's considered impolite if while on a tour of the WH to comment on how strong the smell of ass is.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at November 08, 2012 07:56 PM (L7hol)

128 It's cold comfort to know that when the Obama voters burn down our house, theirs will go up with it, but it is a comfort.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 08, 2012 07:57 PM (QupBk)

129 I think the “other guys with guns“ are Jay Z and Pimp with a Limp dumb ass. Most racist president ever and we see you racist.

Posted by: Kindle Opus Anarcus at November 08, 2012 07:57 PM (Zqz8w)

130 I had to buy a new washing machine and 2 pieces of plywood at Home Depot today.

Checkout lady said "How's your week going?"
I said "Much better, now that my phone has stopped ringing."
She said "I know exactly what you mean. It got so bad I just gave up."

I have no idea whether that meant she didn't vote or not.
In either case, we both agreed that its enjoyable being ignored again.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 08, 2012 07:58 PM (Qxe/p)

131 I don't buy it. All day long we were told the turnout was up and heavy. Yet when the votes are counted we are told turnout is...down? No way. This president has shown himself to be as lawless as anything that has ever come out of the Chicago machine. Its not that the white vote didn't turn out...it just wasn't counted. After all the president told his followers to vote for...revenge? No wonder Eric Holder wants to leave. they already pulled "the big con."

Posted by: Sidney Allen Johnson at November 08, 2012 07:58 PM (tOvXq)

132 @96 I had a sustained email conversation with a white guy who I consider fairly intelligent over why he was still voting for Obama after he essentially agreed with me on everyone one of O's faults and record of failure.

Bottom line: He would not answer the question, "What could Obama do that would make you vote for the other guy." The question stands.

He's absolutely convinced that the Jesus police would be coming for him if R/R were elected (slight hyperbole).

Posted by: Flounder at November 08, 2012 07:58 PM (Kkt/i)

133
I think its pretty funny that some people come to a totally partisan site and say "hey you guys are partisan".

Hello McFly! Anybody in there?

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 08, 2012 07:59 PM (PHb2k)

134 So, am I wrong in remembering that in 2004 Bush didn't need independents either?



So since Obama won on extremely negative campaigning, is it safe to say that we should go ballistic with the negative campaigns, tell independents to fuck the fuck off, and just try to rile the base up as much as possible?



Am I too far out on a limb here?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2012 08:00 PM (8JpQH)

135 Our side knew Obama was trying to suppress turnout for Romney and gin it up for Dems. So, why didn't the Romney campaign or the GOP scream this to people in ads? TELL THEM that's the plan. Say: You're going to see a lot of negative attack ads from the Obama campaign. This is their strategy. They are trying to tell you who Romney is so you don't decide for yourself. They are cynically trying to make you so disgusted you won't want to vote at all. This is their plan and it is intentional. Don't fall for it.

I've said this elsewhere... sunlight is the best disinfectant, and in this case, prevention. Why doesn't our side state in very plain, clear language what the left is doing?

Posted by: Mayday at November 08, 2012 08:00 PM (F3s39)

136
Gary Johnson got the largest number of votes in the history of the Libertarian Party.
Posted by: The Q





Johnson got 1/6 of John Anderson received in 1980.

Libertarianism -- the path to victory.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 08, 2012 08:00 PM (kdS6q)

137 Am I too far out on a limb here?

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2012 08:00 PM (8JpQH)


Yes. I think you are.
I also think that by 2016 negative campaigning won't even be necessary.
Romney "peaked" 4 years too early.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 08, 2012 08:02 PM (Qxe/p)

138 He's absolutely convinced that the Jesus police would be coming for him if R/R were elected (slight hyperbole).


Posted by: Flounder at November 08, 2012 07:58 PM (Kkt/i)
Sound like a spiritual problem to me.

Posted by: baldilocks, AfriCon American at November 08, 2012 08:03 PM (Su0W2)

139 Get over it.


Posted by: baldilocks


Is that for me or for those obsessed with skin color? Apologies if I offended.

Posted by: dogfish at November 08, 2012 08:03 PM (N2yhW)

140 I think its pretty funny that some people come to a totally partisan site and say "hey you guys are partisan".

I'm surprised at how angry the trolls are. I thought they'd be giddy that their tin god won. But it's like subconsciously they know his next four years are going to be a failure, and they're mad at us for not stopping him.

Posted by: WTF Do I Know at November 08, 2012 08:04 PM (HtUdo)

141 Fnord, you didn't bring up O'donell, mathews, kos, wonder why?

Posted by: willow at November 08, 2012 08:04 PM (hX8cq)

142 So I guess we're still sorting out the reasons for the loss. Here, Obama convinced likely Republicans to stay home. Earlier, likely Republicans stayed home convinced that Romney was sailing to an easy victory and their vote wasn't needed. Before that, people stayed home because Romney wasn't likable. I wonder what the answer will end up being.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at November 08, 2012 08:05 PM (i0App)

143 "Johnson got 1/6 of John Anderson received in 1980."

Certainly, but Anderson ran as an independent, not on the official Libertarian Party platform.

Anyway, that's irrelevant. Just pointing out where all the Ronulans went

Posted by: The Q at November 08, 2012 08:06 PM (w4fEE)

144 142
Get over it.


Posted by: baldilocks

Is that for me or for those obsessed with skin color? Apologies if I offended.


Posted by: dogfish at November 08, 2012 08:03 PM (N2yhW)
(Sigh). Yes it was for you. I apologize for it and you didn't offend.It's just that I see the racial strife that has been ginned up for us all on its way to becoming a hot war. Lots of black have fallen for it and, in response, whites are (understandably) falling for it too without looking at the history of it too closely.I also see black people--including me--on the losing end of this made-up war, simply because of numbers.Again, I apologize.

Posted by: baldilocks, AfriCon American at November 08, 2012 08:09 PM (Su0W2)

145

You seriously dont see that the "hardball" way of politics, (Ann Coulter
<-> Pam Geller) is starting to alienate a lot of people? I mean,
we all know people with political differences, but a lot of anti-Obama
has been Bushderangment-syndrome x 5

Oh man do i remember Bush annd murderer KILLER, Blood for OIL!!
yeah Obama has been treated exactly the same. demonstations for years, Kill Bush for years, exactly the same fnord EXACTLY.


Biden basically scared minorities with the 'other' is going to put you back in chains.

Posted by: willow at November 08, 2012 08:09 PM (hX8cq)

146 Posted by: baldilocks, AfriCon American at November 08, 2012 07:50 PM

LOVE your new nic, Juliette.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 08, 2012 08:09 PM (F9+C5)

147 The election is over. What will the Catholic bishops do next? They're the only ones who laid down the gauntlet.

Posted by: Saint Numbskull at November 08, 2012 08:10 PM (G0PfF)

148
>>He wanted voters to think that "The System" was a rigged game, and
that their situation was hopeless, and that there was therefore, no
point in voting.


He accomplished just that.<<


Well, let's not give him too much credit. The Republican party, especially those in Congress, and the Bush family have been working on convincing voters of this for years and years now. Barky didn't manage it on his own.

Posted by: davidinvirginia at November 08, 2012 08:10 PM (qEkGZ)

149 Fnord, thanks fr bringing all this 'should be nicer' stuff up because well Its Obama.

now i remember again Pelosi, Kerry, Kos, Soros , demonstrations , Obama and his , 'straffing civilians'

sure WE re the ones with the mouth problem/

Posted by: willow at November 08, 2012 08:11 PM (hX8cq)

150 The election is over. What will the Catholic bishops do next? They're the only ones who laid down the gauntlet.

Well, with the exception of Bishop Blaire, they'll go to the mat.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 08, 2012 08:12 PM (F9+C5)

151 LOVE your new nic, Juliette.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 08, 2012 08:09 PM (F9+C5)

Thank Ace. It was inspired by a typo of his--AFRICOM.

Posted by: baldilocks, AfriCon American at November 08, 2012 08:12 PM (Su0W2)

152 hey Fnord, remember that bush in the hague?


yep you guys were so sweet.

just give your lying lies a rest. it's old, and pretty sad.
we weren't born yesterday

Posted by: willow at November 08, 2012 08:13 PM (hX8cq)

153 One other point: there has been much discussion about polling in the age of cell phones. I am one of those late-GenX'ers who doesn't have a landline. I only use my work-issued cell phone, which saves me money. And you know what? I didn't get one single call, text, tweet, or email from anybody in the Romney campaign, RNC, NRSC, NRCC, or any other conservative group during the last week. Not a single fucking one, other than emails from SarahPAC which come on a regular basis anyway. The GOTV wasn't just weak, it was non-existent. They have my name and phone number. I've donated to numerous candidates and causes, including Fred Thompson during the '08 primary, McCain during the '08 general election, SarahPAC between the elections, and Sean Duffy, Allen West, Nikki Haley, Kelly Ayotte, Jan Brewer, Scott Walker, and others in 2010 and during the WI recall, and PACs and campaigns share or sell their mailing lists to other campaigns all the time. The RNC calls me all the fucking time, at least twice a month, asking for donations. They have my contact info and know my voting habits. But I never heard from the Romney camp or RNC once, not for donations, not for GOTV, nothing.

What a fucking sham.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at November 08, 2012 08:14 PM (KSjsb)

154 Remember, "bipartisanship" is doing what liberals want.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 08, 2012 08:15 PM (F9+C5)

155 Ace- "[Obama] wanted voters to think that "The System" was a rigged game, and that
their situation was hopeless, and that there was therefore, no point in
voting."

Point - Fehrnstrom and Etch A Sketch

"You can shake it up and start all over again."

Romney didn't have the political sense nor the ruthlessness to fire Eric Fehrnstrom on the the spot and the Dems rode that "Etch A Sketch" gaffe right into four more years of Obama.

Posted by: mrp at November 08, 2012 08:15 PM (HjPtV)

156 Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at November 08, 2012 08:14 PM (KSjsb)

If you didn't live in a swing state, the RNC didn't care.

If you do and you STILL didn't get a call...well, that's just unforgivable.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 08, 2012 08:17 PM (F9+C5)

157 He both turned out blacks and kept whites from voting.



Posted by: Hussein in the Membrane at November 08, 2012 07:40 PM (EX+sq)
So the black turn out was what percent?


Posted by: baldilocks, AfriCon American at November 08, 2012 07:55 PM (Su0W2)

According to these charts it was 13%.
WP: http://tinyurl.com/bj4atlf

Posted by: Tami at November 08, 2012 08:18 PM (X6akg)

158 It's possible that a lot of conservative white voters were unhappy with a Mormon running.

Posted by: Silenus at November 08, 2012 08:19 PM (DeCj1)

159 baldilocks, no worries. I'm old enough to remember what it was like. I'm simply disappointed with where we currently find ourselves. I had hope that O taking office in '08 may actually help, alas it did not and in my opinion has simply fueled the fire.

Posted by: dogfish at November 08, 2012 08:20 PM (N2yhW)

160 I hate that everyone is using this exit poll data and not mentioning that for the first time ever AP and the news organizations that commission these exit polls, came out a few months ago and said to "save money" (yeah, right) they would only be exit polling selected states. Guess which ones? Many of the swing states and then about ten more. Out of those 10, most all were blue states like NY, Cali, and Illinois. There was only one small red state included.

At the time I thought it was to depress republican voter turn out in the western states because the exit polls would be released at 5:00 pm on election date and it would be clear who was voting and why they were voting. But in actuality it IS NOT a true presentation of who was voting, it was only representing the selected swing states and blue states.

The last few days this exit poll data is being parsed by everyone as if it represents the full electorate of the election. It does not! It represents a very skewed sample, heavily weighted with democrats. So why they voted for a certain candidate, what was most important to them, i.e. how important hurricane Sandy was, blaming bush for the economy, etc. is not indicative of the electorate. I'm skeptical of all us making assumptions of what was wrong with the campaign or Romney or the voters themselves based on this information.

It was genius of AP and the news outlets that commission exit polls to do this and yet no one reporting the information remembers or cites the fact that for the first time they did not poll in all states, but in fact only about 17-18 states (swing, big blues and one small red state).

Posted by: Lara at November 08, 2012 08:20 PM (TgSwQ)

161 According to these charts it was 13%.
WP: http://tinyurl.com/bj4atlf

Posted by: Tami at November 08, 2012 08:18 PM (X6akg)

But I think that is due to fewer whites in the denominator, not more blacks in total voting. Total black votes were about the same as 2008; they were just a higher % of the total.

Posted by: davidinvirginia at November 08, 2012 08:21 PM (qEkGZ)

162 He wanted voters to think that "The System" was a rigged game, and that
their situation was hopeless, and that there was therefore, no point in
voting.


Obama convinced me, and Romney didn't convince me otherwise.

Posted by: boulder hobo at November 08, 2012 08:21 PM (QTHTd)

163 He's absolutely convinced that the Jesus police would be coming for him if R/R were elected (slight hyperbole).


Posted by: Flounder

Now where would he get that idea?

Posted by: SFGoth at November 08, 2012 08:23 PM (dZ756)

164
Whatever the exact combo of factors explains it, the country has (once again, but worse) degraded itself. And it's structural, and its permanent. With no press, a cretinized electorate, rotted institutions (judiciary, "education"), pop culture dominated by the statist/soft-fascist dogma, and (legal) immigration mostly reinforcing the erosion of all the positive/successful/distinctive aspects of the American civic mindset - no way out.

Suffusing it all is a disappearance of standards, and decency. It was (still is) astonishing thata president could degrade the office and the country the way Clinton did way back when. Note: his fans, incl. "educated" Dems, didn't skip a beat. Just a few years back a despicable Senate candidate was exposed for having lied about his (war-time!) military service for his whole career (a career dominated by abuse of the judiciary to harass businesses and steal property). No problem, elected easily. Now this absurd, vile, and idiotic leftist from MA, whose prevarications are just part of her absurd persona. No problem, let's put her in the Senate (against a well-liked incumbent opponent regarded as one of the best constituent-service players in the congress).

And of course the mind-blowing, degrading and un-presidential b.s.smear campaign against Mitt, without question one of the cleanest, most decent, most accomplished candidates ever to seek the presidency inall US history.

Not a serious country, not a respectable country. Not any more.



Posted by: non-purist at November 08, 2012 08:24 PM (UViC2)

165 And thats not a very good pitch. If you come across as the Taleban, its not a good starting position.


Posted by: Fnord at November 08, 2012 08:19 PM (hoJnS)
haha, I dunno, I certainly feel like Progressives fits tht description much better.
Hell I will kill you to the obscure video maker, throw him in Jail!Romney I will kill you if you win@threaten Rich Folks!threaten Koch brother!threaten those that sponser a Republican.

You guys just make shit up all the day long.

Posted by: willow at November 08, 2012 08:24 PM (hX8cq)

166 Many voters have dropped out of the voter pool over the years as they've
decided that government just doesn't matter, that nothing can change,
that it's all a corrupt game.


All you have to do to remedy that is nominate candidates who inspire; who defend principles vociferously; and who live up to these principles.

No great mystery for how to overcome this malaise.

It's clear, though, that plenty of those who oppose Obama didn't bother to show up. We have lots of them commenting here.

I find them incomprehensibly childish and hope they're not parents, but they number in their millions, apparently.

They also have no grasp on reality. But they will in a couple of years. They'll never admit that they screwed up, but they'll be feeling the same pain the rest of us are, so we can take comfort in that.

They're like people who refuse to help patch a hole in a sinking ocean liner because they don't like the way the person leading the hole-patching operation spoke to them. Or they disagree with the way the hole will be patched.

So they go up on the deck and fold their arms and proudly tell everyone on the sinking ship that they weren't gonna help that bastard hole patcher down there! He can fuck off!

Amazing.

Posted by: Llarry at November 08, 2012 08:25 PM (SI/pw)

167 anyway hypocrite and liar.

nice to ave media on your side though

Posted by: willow at November 08, 2012 08:25 PM (hX8cq)

168 "158 It's possible that a lot of conservative white voters were unhappy with a Mormon running."
-------------------------------------------------
I know evangelicals made up 27% of the electorate... it's a record. I believe 78% went for Romney IIRC.

Posted by: Lara at November 08, 2012 08:26 PM (TgSwQ)

169

"Johnson got 1/6 of John Anderson received in 1980."

Anderson ran as an independent, not on the official Libertarian Party platform.
Posted by: The Q





Didn't say Anderson was a Libertarian. Far from it. Just pointing out the Libertarian vote is a rounding error in the Great Game.

Also, in 1980 Ed Clark, the Libertarian candidate running on the official Libertarian Party platform got -- 1/6 of what independent Anderson received, and a greater percentage of the total vote than Johnson.

The Libertarian Party has been at 1% of the electorate for over 30 years. There are few vote for the Republicans to harvest there, especially since Team Paul is just as likely to sit out the election in a "better than you" snit or vote Democrat over lifestyle issues.
.


Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 08, 2012 08:26 PM (kdS6q)

170 Fnord, jiminy that's what your team advocated for to build up the rage in YOUR base.
along with Killer
Blood for OIL!
Innocent terrorists!

Posted by: willow at November 08, 2012 08:27 PM (hX8cq)

171 So when do we start running ads like that in the cities? Highlight the higher unemployment among blacks. The pictures of Obama with his white devils The fact that he's benefited from affirmitive action with having 0 links to slavery/civil rights. We should start poisoning this well starting now for 2014 & 2016

Posted by: RizzyG at November 08, 2012 08:27 PM (FzyEN)

172 One of my predictions is going to be correct. The riots will come after the election.

Posted by: Soona at November 08, 2012 08:28 PM (z+O0e)

173 Romney didn't have the political sense nor
the ruthlessness to fire Eric Fehrnstrom on the the spot and the Dems
rode that "Etch A Sketch" gaffe right into four more years of Obama.


Posted by: mrp at November 08, 2012 08:15 PM (HjPtV)
If he fired boneheads like Fehrnstrom and Andrea Saul, they would have become the 2012 versions of Steve Schmidt and Nicole Wallace. There would have been endless smears leaked by them to the press about Romney or Ryan or both, who would have gleefully shouted it from the rooftops. These political hacks are the most shameless, dishonest, own-ass-covering whores on the planet. It's it's their nature.
Romney should have had the sense to have never hired them in the first place.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at November 08, 2012 08:28 PM (KSjsb)

174 If you didn't live in a swing state, the RNC didn't care.


If you do and you STILL didn't get a call...well, that's just unforgivable.Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 08, 2012 08:17 PM (F9+C5)
I live in MN. Apparently they thought is was in play, otherwise they wouldn't have been spending money on ads and sending Ryan to campaign here.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at November 08, 2012 08:29 PM (KSjsb)

175 just rhetoric and hyprbole when You do it.
we are to play nice while being insulted for 10 years +


Posted by: willow at November 08, 2012 08:30 PM (hX8cq)

176 @96 Nicholaus - I think you captured a real and significant part of the country = voters who have lost faith in our politicians and the govt. The doom felt about gay marriage and abortion and everything else, along with a continually growing fed govt - no matter who is President - is enough to discourage many from caring any more. I have similar thoughts. I haven't quit voting, but I can understand why people do quit.

Posted by: carolina at November 08, 2012 08:32 PM (/M0gK)

177 I wonder how many votes got flipped by the machines. You only need a few machines here and there flipping votes to change an election. I heard all day that the red areas had record turnouts and blue areas were depressed. Heard this on talk radio and various blogs. What's the reason truth?

Maybe we need video tape records of people entering and leaving polls to take care of the Philadelphia fraud

Posted by: Pete in Finksburg at November 08, 2012 08:32 PM (pmDdf)

178 I'm 46, and this election has taught me that most voters see the country as a collection of suckers to steal from. No reason not to rob, cheat and kill to get whatever you want! Why the fuck not?

Posted by: Editor at November 08, 2012 08:34 PM (UUjjI)

179 oops - that was for @95

Posted by: carolina at November 08, 2012 08:34 PM (/M0gK)

180 Hate to say it but my vote in Michigan is pointless. The union hacks out-vote me every time. If we are going to continue to play this game (which is really a waste of time) then I guess we need to hyper-focus on the swing states and fucking drag people to the polls where we can win.

We should probably nominate a popular governor from a swing state and pick a VP (early) from another and get the primary over with quickly so we don't beat up our own candidates. I agree with Coulter that fucking around with people like Bachman and such drains valuable time, oxygen, and resources during the primaries.

Cut down on the number of debates and never allow the MSM to moderate ANY of them. We are only giving them sound bites to use against us later. We probably need to get alot dirtier too, but let operatives and surrogates do it. Target the Dem nominees now who are likely in 2016 and get the dossier ready now and start planning on how to destroy them but wait to do it until they have picked their guy.

Posted by: Ken Royall at November 08, 2012 08:36 PM (x0g8a)

181 I wasn't around for 1964, but I'm sure conservatives had to be even worse discouraged then than they are now. America had some dark, tumultous years ahead of it as a result of the Great Society's triumph, but conservatism recovered.

I would like to be optimistic.

Posted by: Nicholas Kronos at November 08, 2012 08:36 PM (WbGW2)

182 142 So I guess we're still sorting out the reasons for the loss. Here, Obama convinced likely Republicans to stay home. Earlier, likely Republicans stayed home convinced that Romney was sailing to an easy victory and their vote wasn't needed. Before that, people stayed home because Romney wasn't likable. I wonder what the answer will end up being.



-------------------------


I won.

Posted by: Baraka the Husein at November 08, 2012 08:38 PM (z+O0e)

183 Now where would he get that idea?
Posted by: SFGoth at November 08, 2012 08:23 PM (dZ756)


From folks that interpret any suggestion that they shouldn't kill their own babies or that the body politic suffers from unrestrained hedonism as a call for theocracy, I imagine.

Posted by: Grey Fox at November 08, 2012 08:38 PM (DeRsD)

184 I would like to be optimistic. Posted by: Nicholas

The demographics were wildly different then. Debbie Downer here to tell you not to get your hopes too high.

Posted by: dogfish at November 08, 2012 08:44 PM (N2yhW)

185 From folks that interpret any suggestion that they shouldn't kill their own babies or that the body politic suffers from unrestrained hedonism as a call for theocracy, I imagine.
Posted by: Grey Fox at November 08, 2012 08:38 PM (DeRsD)


THIS

When you have no standards whatsoever, as is the case with most liberals, then the merest suggestion that, oh gee, maybe some standards would be helpful sounds like theocracy.

And whatever you do, don't offer the observation that it might not be a good thing that 70% of black kids are born out of wedlock.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 08, 2012 08:46 PM (F9+C5)

186 In 2000 the Left began to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to convince the world that GW was the stupidest man on Earth. Today people still make jokes about him. But let Obama talk about 57 States or fly to Vegas while Americans die and......crickets. The GOP will never have an honest to God international coalition willing to do anything to put a radical in power. Fund and co-op media, suppress votes via controlling the Sec of State in the many States, etc.
This was not just an election, this was the hopes and dreams and billions of dollars and 100+ years to get rid of the USA by making it "fair".

Posted by: Daybrother at November 08, 2012 08:47 PM (+paCV)

187 Jesus, and I'd thought this was a smart blog. Y'all nominate Scrooge McDuck ... and it's Obama's fault he turned voters off?

Ever accepted blame for ANYTHING, Republicans? Seems not. Try winning with your pity party in 2016.

Posted by: Anderson at November 08, 2012 08:48 PM (wdzI4)

188 Ever accepted blame for ANYTHING, Republicans? Seems not. Try winning with your pity party in 2016.
Posted by: Anderson

----------------------------------------------------------------

OK. How about this?
You are a total and complete asshole. Now, what are you gonna do to change my mind?

Posted by: Daybrother at November 08, 2012 08:51 PM (+paCV)

189 Jesus, and I'd thought this was a smart blog. Y'all nominate Scrooge McDuck ... and it's Obama's fault he turned voters off?

Because Romney encouraged people to vote for revenge, allowed Americans to die in Libya, and is cool with allowing infants born alive after botched abortions to die in closets. Oh wait . .

Posted by: niclun74 at November 08, 2012 08:57 PM (xq11A)

190 Something is rotten in the State of Denmark.

Posted by: sherlock at November 08, 2012 09:00 PM (f29LO)

191 I found a very interesting bit in my community of seniors. The 75 plus generation who are very prejudice and judgmental would not vote for Romney. They thought his Mormon religion and his wealth made him someone they could not vote for. Forget the Medicare and that O is wealthy as well. It was a non issue with them. Even my Dad who is a life long D and voted for McCain in 08 voted for Obama. There was no changing his mind. Several of the seniors just did not vote this time. Sad.

Posted by: Alborn at November 08, 2012 09:15 PM (9U6XH)

192 Alborn: I have a really hard time believing your story. I knocked on doors in Manassas, Virginia for Romney the weekend before the election. I was struck by how many seniors, men and women - were enthusiastically voting for Romney.

Posted by: Victoria at November 08, 2012 09:18 PM (tV5ow)

193 I'm seeing something similar in looking at the Florida numbers. Romney is matching McCain numbers across the board. He should be doing better given registration growth. But he is at least matching them.

Then we have bombs dropped in specific counties. Miami-Dade at least. There were 30K less Romney votes, while neighboring Broward hit the McCain numbers exactly. Broward is more Democrat than Miami-Dade.

I looks like the overall numbers were driven down low enough to allow fraud in specific counties to steal the state.

But it shouldn't have been that close.

Posted by: Dave in Fla at November 08, 2012 09:18 PM (dX4hn)

194 Posted by: Alborn at November 08, 2012 09:15 PM (9U6XH)

That kind of surprises me. If they're that old-fashioned I'm surprised they'd vote for a woman VP but not for a Mormon.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at November 08, 2012 09:23 PM (KSjsb)

195 Could the depressed turnout be related to the electoral college? How many figure...I'm in a blue state and my vote counts for nothing anyway. Why bother?

Posted by: Carm at November 08, 2012 09:41 PM (aukFg)

196 Great news actually. This means we just have to turn out the base and win. No need for hispandering as it won't work anyways. How about a white folksy guy? Pence/Rubio? Ryan/Rubio?

Posted by: xuyee at November 08, 2012 10:33 PM (/QiO2)

197 Ace, this is fast becoming a 'meme' in the conservative blogosphere -- and it's pure B.S. Mountain moonshine, i.e. drink it and you likely go blind.

"Vote suppression" isn't in the least comparable to "negative campaigning". Treating the two as the same is just going to persist one of the pillars of the confirmation bias in major play right now, and if that pillar persists, well sir, you can kiss off 2016
right now.

I thought you'd learned your lesson and were going to grow up and where big boy pants from now on. What happened to THAT "old" resolution of, like, yesterday.

Posted by: Rex the Wonder God at November 08, 2012 10:34 PM (21TJo)

198 It's going to be Obama 2016 Obama 2020 Obama 2024...

Welcome to the United Socialist States of Barack Hussein Kardashian Obama.

Posted by: Sb at November 08, 2012 10:54 PM (80w08)

199 I live in a town with a lot of liberals. Therefore, a lot of my friends are liberals. I like them. They are smart people, and they are not liberals simply so that they get stuff for free. They are all working for a living in good, professional jobs.

Nope. Not one of them wants free stuff.

Can I explain what they do and what they want?

They LOVE their candidates. It doesn't matter who it is or what these people do. They LOVE them. They protect and defend them, all the time, all year long, day in, and day out. It is a relentless ad campaign on my Facebook page. I'm constantly having to "hide" things that they post to reduce my need to gag. If you say anything, they have read their liberal blogs and are ready with an answer. They are not vacuous. They do have a very different point of view and a different way of looking at the world, a way that is not mine or yours.

They have issues that they care about WAY more than the economy (perhaps because they are all employed and have excellent jobs--veterinarian, bank vice president, web designer, corporate trainer, high-school teacher, college professor, high-end hotel caterer, nurse, doctor, psychologist, symphony-orchestra musician--the list goes on), and those issues are the environment, women's "reproductive rights," education, etc. You know this already. They honestly believe that what really matters is making this world a better place by working for improving these things. And they love government, because they see it as fighting for The People and helping their causes. One friend I have proudly posted a photo of herself next to a cardboard cutout of Obama several weeks ago. She LOVES this guy. Another friend was a Hillary supporter in 2008, but when Obama screwed over Hillary, she went right to loving him.

I own a local business, a retail store. Most of my customers are liberals, and they are extremely supportive of me. Almost every day, they say how grateful they are for my being there. It is unbelievably wonderful of them, and honestly, as much as I hate their political views, I am grateful for them too. They keep me in business by shopping with me rather than using mail order with big companies--which they could do. I have all liberals working for me (and again, that is what is in my town). They are incredibly honest, loyal, hard-working, smart, and wonderful. I can't say enough good things about them as employees. Of course, they don't know that I'm a conservative. Except for a rare few that I trust, I never say so. I fear that they would never do business again with me because they care so much about their causes. We just keep politics out of the store. I don't necessarily like having to be in the closet, but I'm a realist. Anyway,
everyone assumes that because they like me, I am a liberal like they are.

Many of us have worked in corporations. It pretty much sucks. Management sucks, meetings suck, offices suck. There's a reason that Dilbert comics hang on so many cubicles. (Oh, and cubicles suck too.) I hated it so much that I started my own business. I don't miss being in a corporation, even a little bit. I like having work be fun, at least most of the time.

So. Now we're left with this: Conservatives are "for corporations" and cynical about government, and fight among ourselves about how we don't like any of our candidates because they are not just right for us (instead of freakin' loving them all), and for the most part we are the silent majority--and then we wonder why we can't get people excited about the Republican party? Can you even FATHOM putting a picture of yourself next to a cardboard cutout of any Republican presidential candidate and posting it on Facebook? The reality is, we have a bit of a branding problem. That Obama logo is everywhere, and it is memorable. Have a drink of Pepsi.

And there is one more thing. I have wanted sometimes to show my liberal friends (I am female, so they are female) this blog. I love it here. It is keeping me sane at the moment. But I know that if I did, they would see the boobie posts and immediately dismiss everyone here as assholes, and it would confirm their beliefs that conservative men don't care about women as anything but sex objects. I know that isn't true, but perception is going to be reality. So at least here, I don't even have a great way to educate them to my point of view.

The answers are not easy.

Posted by: Just another cat at November 08, 2012 11:16 PM (PR7bH)

200 Dem ground game = Absentee ballots followed by multiple voting by illegals, dumped ballots, trashed Military votes = Voterfraud

Posted by: GlitterDove at November 08, 2012 11:36 PM (Z3ckx)

201 theblaze.com/users/apbt55/ "bus loads of dems getting food and cash to vote multiple times in philly, pittsburgh & allentown"

Posted by: GlitterDove at November 08, 2012 11:37 PM (Z3ckx)

202
8 "That is why we need someone who can motivate them next time, someone who can look comfortable going into a Walmart for example...someone who can speak their language. This is the one thing Reagan and Clinton both had in common..."
Yeah, Clinton would be comfy in a Walmart because he loves to gab.
Reagan would not have been in the place because Nancy would have none of it.
Ironically, it is Mitt and Ann who love to shop at their Costco.
Looks are so deceptive.

Posted by: gm at November 09, 2012 12:12 AM (wgmUB)

203
"He won with a software patch to tabulation machines that caused over 9 million white voters not to be counted.

"Democrats were down 10 million from 2008. Republicans were down 3 million. Who the FUCKING HELL were all those people in line on election day? Why were polling places forced to stay open for hours after closing?"

Does this "patch"leave a trace? Can the software be removed from some machines and tested?

Posted by: gm at November 09, 2012 12:15 AM (wgmUB)

204 "Many voters have dropped out of the voter pool over the years as they've
decided that government just doesn't matter, that nothing can change,
that it's all a corrupt game." Ace

That may be true for now but it won't be when the bread lines begin and Americans start starving to death for the first time since the Great Depression after the economy tanks. They'll be motivated to vote then.

Posted by: Six at November 09, 2012 12:19 AM (gW5fI)

205 Let’s see. I followed a link from RedState (hardly a non-partisan site) here. I find the difference in tone remarkable. This country needs a viable two party system. The Republican party cannot continue to be viable if it doesn’t face up to some cold reality – like it or not.

Recognize the reality of demographics. Some people have rightly recognized that the Republican party should, in theory, be attractive to socially conservative minorities and economically vulnerable single women, to name two groups. The cold reality is that the party will not win those groups given its current state.

Blacks will not vote Republican as long as they are demonized explicitly (as some posts here have), or implicitly as lazy shiftless moochers. When party leaders in places like S. Carolina send out pictures of the White House lawn as a watermelon patch and the party’s leaders don’t denounce them, you’ve failed. Hispanics aren’t going to vote Republican as long as the party portrays them as a mass of illegal enemies. Muslims aren’t going to vote Republican when the party brands them all as Islamic terrorists. Many women aren’t going to vote Republican when the party seems more obsessed with rape babies than with pay equality, affordable daycare etc. And no, you can’t be against both abortion and contraception and win – even among Catholics.

I believe that the majority of Americans don’t give up on America, no matter who gets elected. I’m not sure whether it’s just post-election catharsis or not but this talk of the apocalypse, the end of freedom, buy ammo, head to the bunkers stuff is crazy talk to most people. It only cements the image that the GOP is dominated by foaming at the mouth crazies. Another fatal mistake is to buy into the myths of why you lost this election.

1, Romney was a flawed candidate – as if Obama wasn’t? Moderate Mitt would probably have won, but ‘Severely Conservative’ Mitt killed him off in the primaries. Conservative Mitt might have won but Mass. Killed him off years ago. The many Mitts held a circular firing squad. True libs aren’t any happier with Obama than true cons were with Mittens but at least folks knew what they were getting. McCain was too moderate? No John lost because of two words – Sarah Palin.

2. We need a better message/messenger. No, you need different policies. You may disguise them with a different message and win one cycle but in the end, you lose.

3. We know better and everyone else is stupid – they’ll see when the apocalypse comes. Save the apocalyptic thinking for Sunday school. The country isn’t going to collapse, no one is coming for your guns and Sharia law isn’t going to be imposed from black helicopters – and yes, Obama was born in Hawaii. No one is going to elect a party that holds such beliefs. After Katrina and Sandy, no one is going to elect the party that wants to gut/privatize FEMA in the name of conservative orthodoxy, of fill it with hacks like Brownie.

Want to win? Adopt reasonable positions. If you can’t support the status quo on abortion, keep it at home but don’t champion it as a party litmus test – Even Ann Coulter isn’t that foolish. Follow the Bushes lead on immigration and stop talking about mass deportations and electrified fences. Stop demonizing GOP figures like Christie for putting reality ahead of mindless ideological purity. If liberals can learn to live without things like single payer healthcare that Obama and the spineless Dems in congress wouldn’t fight for then conservatives need to accept the politics entails compromise. Reject that reality and you are doomed. Do you want to govern or sit in your bunkers?

Posted by: Observer at November 09, 2012 12:43 AM (Je2Yn)

206 I see observer has problems with Math. Yes the nation will collapse if it doesn't get a handle on spending and entitlements. It is happening now in Greece.


Posted by: NC Mountain Girl at November 09, 2012 01:20 AM (05gG4)

207 My young son thinks Nate Silver is a genius.

I ask: did Nate predict the low voter turnout for Barack, iow did he predict a Black Swan, which is of course a contradiction in terms.

Did he predict and factor in Christie's rolling-in-the-sand kiss on the beach with Barak?

If millions of votes went missing in so many states, why wouldn't the software geeks in at least some of the states pick up the discrepancy between the number of voters who physically showed up, and the number of votes reported? Even the ORCA people should have noticed that in the states where they were effective. And even if they were ineffective, how would Barak's people know that, going into the election?

Also: Wouldn't it be a "first" for a ballot box conspiracy to decrease the number of votes for its candidate, as opposed to stuffing the ballot box for him?

Posted by: Jim Sonweed at November 09, 2012 01:25 AM (2c1Cq)

208 I think Obama ran a very effective ad the last weekend. It was on every NFL game I watched. It was the Colin Powell endorsement. Now I know what a backstabber was in every administration he served in and he was a political general but most voters don't. It said the economy was improving and the foreign policy was working. It reinforced the bipartisan image from the Sandy photo op with Christie. I don't know if it convince people to vote for Obama but it may have painted a rosy enough picture that enough men in the NFL audience stayed home.

Much of the white working class is realigning. It takes a presidential cycle or three for them to make the transition and along the way they may sit one a couple of elections.


Posted by: NC Mountain Girl at November 09, 2012 01:32 AM (05gG4)

209 Romney was like one of those Star Trek shape shifters that reads a person's thoughts, then morphs into the creature the person was thinking about.

The man was incapable of leading a pack of cub scouts down a public sidewalk. And he lost, fair and square, to a candidate that, with all his faults, runs a well-organized campaign, and inspires others to pitch in and help out.

Posted by: Jeff at November 09, 2012 01:53 AM (qRuw3)

210 Psst, try not calling 47% of all American parasites next time.

Posted by: Jeff at November 09, 2012 01:55 AM (qRuw3)

211 The dogged refusal to admit Romney was a horrible candidate, even in the face of this:

<< exceptionally depressed turnout of a portion of the electorate that, when it votes, tends to vote Republican.>>

...is some seriously impressive denial.

Posted by: Sgt. York at November 09, 2012 02:28 AM (Nd+32)

212 It wasn't Obama that created the term Rino. If you are a fiscal republican who believes that cutting government spending includes cutting the bloated defense budget, you are a rino. If you are a republican who thinks candidates should focus on economic and foreign policy issues and leave gay marriage and abortion out of the elections then you are a rino. If you oppose obamacare, but also opposed the expansion of the federal government by the patriot act, no child left behind, and the creation of a cabinet level department of homeland security then you are a rino. If you believe that strengthening our borders is more important than spending trillions in Iraq and Afghanistan then you are a rino. If you believe that the tax code should support business growth and long term investment but punish the kind of casino capitalism and financial speculation that Romney embodies then you are a rino. The republican party noise machine has done everything it can do to exclude moderates and libertarians from having a voice or a seat at the table and then blames obama for the low turnout. I don't think so

Posted by: sarcastico at November 09, 2012 03:36 AM (tjUxD)

213 166 All you have to do to remedy that is nominate candidates who inspire; who defend principles vociferously; and who live up to these principles.
-
That's a big "all you have to do".

Posted by: The Lightworker at November 09, 2012 05:00 AM (pBxds)

214 26 We've talked a lot about the "Honey Boo Boo" voters, the LIVs. But I've just found out that description, what we think of as a LIV, is inaccurate.

My wife's uncle is a very well educated man, highly intelligent by all appearances and an analyst for the NSA. Which makes this scary and disheartening. He informed my MIL (his sister) and my FIL that he voted for TFG. They both went ballistic on him. My FIL at one point says, "For fuck's sake! He borrowed and spent a trillion damn dollars on a stimulus and those companies are all going belly up! He shouldn't be financially supporting specific companies and he damn sure shouldn't be doing it with our money when we're in massive debt!" Wife's Uncle was flabbergasted. "Wait, he did what?!?"

That, ladies and gentlemen, is the face of the American electorate. The LIV.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 08, 2012 07:25 PM (GEICT)



Office of Personnel and Management, 2009: Stop Using Knowledge, Skills, and Abilities questionnaires when hiring.

http://www.federaltimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090623/PERSONNEL01/906230302

Posted by: BuddyPC at November 09, 2012 06:27 AM (cyrh6)

215 @212. Yup. We have to have everything perfect. And on top of that, we're dealing with people who are busy trying to save the planet.

It is also a huge country people vs. city people problem. The voting map shows that. We need to find a way to help city voters think that voting Republican might be a good idea. City people are people who come together. Country people are people who like to live apart from people.

Posted by: Just another cat at November 09, 2012 07:34 AM (PR7bH)

216 Courtesy of one of the commenters in the Cleveland article:
total votes in 6th ward 2012 --
obama 9244
romney 185

total votes 6th ward 2008 --
obama 5814
McCain 524

So about 90% in 2008, and a huge increase in turnout in 2012, with a bit over 98% voting for Obama. Because he's just that much more popular now.

Commenter notes:
Obama's vote total in 2008 -- when he was wildly popular -- is 63% of his total in 2012; while Romney's vote total is about 35% of McCain's.

Posted by: Original Roy at November 09, 2012 10:33 AM (wTawr)

217 Cleveland article (It's supposed to be a link!)

Posted by: Original Roy at November 09, 2012 10:34 AM (wTawr)

218 http://ow.ly/f9S9l

Posted by: Original Roy at November 09, 2012 10:34 AM (wTawr)

219 This is not voter suppression, much as Karl Rove would like it to be.

Both sides release plenty of negative campaigns.

It's Obama's fault that some people were not motivated to vote for Romney?

What a piece of stupidness.

Posted by: MK at November 09, 2012 11:22 AM (juCzf)

220 Obama just riffed off Gingrich, Perry et. al.'s attack on Romney as a plutocrat etc. Obama did exactly the same thing as Romney's primary opponents did except they did first.

Posted by: orson arbor at November 09, 2012 01:51 PM (sC/PU)

221 @212 Yep. And all this noise about Obama suppressing the vote? That's the sound of people refusing to hear the loud knocking on the door. Likewise the moaning about Christie. Or about Sandy.
When I was a young voter, the GOP was busy trying to be a big tent. Sometimes seemed like b.s., but at least there was an ethos that you could differ on some % of issues. Not now. Not for a while now.
Good luck.

Posted by: RaflW at November 09, 2012 02:21 PM (E03Mc)






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