What If The Election Was Won For Even Stupider Reasons Than You Thought?

After a loss, you're supposed to take stock. Ask the Big Questions. Ruthlessly question your assumptions, even your core beliefs.

You're not supposed to make up silly excuses and tell yourselves happy stories about why you lost. You're not supposed to make up a narrative where you should just do all the same things again.

Hacks do that. Genuine thinkers, on the other hand, probe deeply into their starting assumptions and suggest Big Changes.

I get all that, and that's true 90% of the time.

But what if the data actually suggests that Random Chance played a greater role in this election than any other?

Datum: 12% of all voters made up their minds in the last week before the election.

This was right when Sandy struck -- and crucially, in the aftermath of Sandy. Sandy struck Monday, into Tuesday morning, before the election.

Datum: 42% of voters said in exit polls that Hurricane Sandy was "important" to their vote.

Datum: Earlier polls had Romney winning Independents by 10 or more points. In exit polls, he won Independents by only 5. That's the sort of barely-winning margin where the other candidate can still prevail. Bush narrowly lost independents in 2004, for example.

Datum: One of the key reasons for Romney's surge was the feeling that he was the more bipartisan choice. He ran hard on that. And he was leading in many polls on leadership. But in exit polls, he lost the leadership question. Why?

Datum: We're all now saying "the polls were right." But if the polls were right, they were also right earlier. What to make of Romney's former lead in the polls, which vanished as Election Day approached? Why did he go from about a +1 in the RCP average before Sandy, to a -1 after Sandy? In Gallup, he want from +5 pre-Sandy to +1 post-Sandy; one doesn't have to think those numbers are precisely right to still realize there was a big shift away from Romney, to Obama.

If, as we are all now saying, "the polls were right," then they were right pre-Sandy, too. If they weren't right pre-Sandy, why is the left covering Nate Sliver with laurels? His entire thesis was "the polls are right," and not just at the end, but the whole way through.

Datum: Bush was ahead in polls by 3 points going into the 2000 election. Then the DUI story broke on the weekend before the election. He wound up losing the popular vote by around 0.5%. Late breaking news which had a greatly disproportionate impact on the vote. Its importance was not due to its actual importance -- its importance was due solely to its recency.

What if the whole election was swung by a random Black Swan event which had nothing to do with anything that was being debated throughout the past two years?

I think people are averse to crediting so much to chance and chaos.

I think chance and chaos play a much, much bigger role in our lives than we're comfortable admitting. We tend to screen it out. Why does one man die at 41 while another man lives to 93? Why does one driver skid to a harrowing but safe stop on the shoulder of the road, while another car skids beneath an 18-wheeler, killing all inside?

What if all the work and effort and thought and prayers we put into this race were undone in 48 hours by a hurricane no one saw coming until October 27th?

This doesn't mean there's nothing to improve on. Our GOTV effort, early reports are indicating, was poor. The vaunted ORCA program often didn't work at all; as information comes in, this might be called a huge failure. Romney grew into a good candidate, and seemed sincere and warm at the end of the campaign... but seemed out of touch and robotic for most of it.

And Akin's and Mourdock's decision to really ramp up the War on Women narrative lost us all sorts of otherwise gettable votes.

But while we look for Big Important Reasons why we lost the election, we shouldn't ignore Small Stupid Reasons we lost-- because the data do seem to be indicating we lost quite a few votes for the smallest, stupidest, randomest reasons imaginable.

Hey, I Keep Saying This! But "jackleg" provides a good quote about it:

“The course of every intellectual, if he pursues his journey long and unflinchingly enough, ends in the obvious, from which the non-intellectuals have never stirred.” -- Aldous Huxley

Intellectuals tend to be scornful of the obvious and stupid, because they prize their ability to see the subtle and the clever.

But 90% of the workings of the world are, in fact, obvious and stupid. If you search only for the subtle and clever, you'll actually wind up missing the solution 90% of the time.

Note Well: Let me repeat again that of course this is not the only reason Romney lost. I listed nine more yesterday; six more have occurred to me since. And of course Obama did many things right -- like microtargeting nonvoters with racial/class/gender Otherizing appeals. (Congratulations, Lightworker! You've healed a nation!)

But let's not overlook the obvious and crudely stupid here, either, as we set out to say Clever Things.

Posted by: Ace at 02:41 PM



Comments

1 So ya mean us here in the North East got fucked twice by Sandy? Good times baby

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 08, 2012 02:42 PM (79ueO)

2 Baby lambs.

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/59516

Posted by: EC at November 08, 2012 02:42 PM (GQ8sn)

3 Yeah, but if Romney had worked it to another 1% he'd have won, right?

The storm is part of the loss, but not the entire thing, I don't think.

Posted by: looking closely at November 08, 2012 02:43 PM (PwGfd)

4 Are you saying we lost by a hug?

If so, I agree. It ain't over 'til the fat man sings!

Posted by: USA at November 08, 2012 02:43 PM (RIg+t)

5 Repeat from last thread:

Yes and the fact is that 42% was from an exit poll of Obama voters. It
still does not account for the 68% of the Republicans that sat at home
and watched Obama get elected. The second highest "motivator" in that
exit poll was the economy and they all blamed Bush for our current
problems despite the fact he had nothing to do with it and the economy
has been under Obama control for 4 years. .

Nobody has done an
exit poll for them yet. And if we wait on some enterprising Reporter
from the MFM to do it we will be waiting a long long time.

Posted by: Vic at November 08, 2012 02:43 PM (YdQQY)

6 Out in the West Coast, I didn't know anyone who voted based on Hurricane Sandy. People in the states who were hit by it might have, but that's it.

The reasons Romney lost are complex and many. I think the main one is that they lost the Hispanic vote; older white people stayed away from the polls and in Ohio, they didn't have a good get out the vote game.

Posted by: Victoria at November 08, 2012 02:43 PM (tV5ow)

7 That's entirely possible. What I really think is that Sandy just blasted everything else off the news. Suddenly, people weren't being reminded how important it was to vote; it was important to give blood and supplies, to make sure loved ones had heat.

Unfortunate, but hey, at least Chris Matthews is happy about it.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 08, 2012 02:44 PM (moRRg)

8 For many of us, this is part of why we are so horrified - If a significant number of 60 million of our countrymen are SO pathetic as to ignore four years of a record because of a 2 hour long photo shoot (oooh, I <i>guess</i> he <i>looks</i> presidential!), then maybe we truly are not fit for self-government any more.

And maybe that has been a demonic master plan all along.

Posted by: Andrew X at November 08, 2012 02:44 PM (Xs8K2)

9 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) All Dead Inside at November 08, 2012 02:44 PM (/eBe8)

10 Hurricane Sandy and Free Shit.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 08, 2012 02:44 PM (UOM48)

11 Can't wait for the videos of 2nd time Obama voters regretting their decision.....

Posted by: izoneguy at November 08, 2012 02:44 PM (oKH8p)

12 The Forrest Gump coalition.

Posted by: Joe Mama at November 08, 2012 02:44 PM (JJ+PT)

13 Yeah but the fact that the re-election bid of a president of the United States who demonstrably hates the United States and wants to see it weakened is close enough for such a random event and such a small shift in voter percentages to matter .... is bad enough.

Posted by: arminius at November 08, 2012 02:44 PM (cDnhR)

14 It still doesn't explain 32% registered Republican turnout (I still haven't seen a source quote for this stat). It doesn't explain why, at best, Romney matched McCain total vote numbers.

But yeah, Christie can suck my dick.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 08, 2012 02:45 PM (ccXZP)

15 Idiots are allowed to vote - this is news?

Posted by: Gerry at November 08, 2012 02:45 PM (i8u8P)

16 He still cares about us... He really, really cares for us

Can believe how many protest voters are still out there on the right...

Posted by: phreshone at November 08, 2012 02:45 PM (MAhUT)

17 The only way I could see Sandy being a cause is that is what killed Romney mo and had those Republicans all sit and home and cry "all is lost".

Posted by: Vic at November 08, 2012 02:45 PM (YdQQY)

18 Are you saying we lost by a hug?

If so, I agree. It ain't over 'til the fat man sings!
Posted by: USA at November 08, 2012 02:43 PM (RIg+t)


As I have said before it was not Christie, although that did NOT help, it was the interruption in the campaign as Romney was surging and the good PR for obama ( acting Presidential) that boosted obama. As it is today FEMA has done an horrendous job here in both NJ and NY and obama ignored it, but no one covered that.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 08, 2012 02:45 PM (79ueO)

19 Snooki Couture is big on HSN with the Free Contraception!!!!! wimmins.

Fall of Rome and all.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 08, 2012 02:46 PM (UOM48)

20 >>42% of voters said in exit polls that Hurricane Sandy was "important" to their vote.

That's a politically correct thing to say to a pollster.

Doesn't make it true, and even if it is true, it doesn't necessarily make it "the" deciding factor for most of these voters.

Also, it would be helpful to see WHERE these Sandy-affected voters were. If they were in NY or NJ, it doesn't really matter how their vote was affected, does it?


Posted by: looking closely at November 08, 2012 02:46 PM (PwGfd)

21 I remember seeing somewhere that the Google search terms on election eve were trending with "who is running for president". Last minute, low information voting. Reflexive, even racial, gut reaction voting.

Education won't reach those voters. It can't; they do all they can to avoid it. We really do elect an American Idol.

Posted by: Tesh at November 08, 2012 02:46 PM (cnjni)

22 ... and, my memory is still unclear - who posted that exit polls are BS?

Posted by: Gerry at November 08, 2012 02:46 PM (i8u8P)

23 Michael Moore and Chriss Matthews TOLD us so.

Brilliant deduction.

Posted by: © Sponge at November 08, 2012 02:46 PM (UK9cE)

24 I just got off the phone with a close female friend of mine down in AZ, she's very much your classic apolitical, low-information type person. But she could tell I was down and so I explained to her my disappointment in the election result. Then she proceeded to (inadvertently) rub salt in my wound by telling me how she and a number of her friends didn't bother to vote Tuesday because, while they weren't nuts about Obama, they were put off by Romney's expressed desire to outlaw all abortion, curtail in-vitro fertilization, limit birth control, etc. etc. etc., because of his extreme religious convictions.

What?! I asked her if she ever once heard Romney say any of that. She hadn't, she just "heard about it"... So in addition to swing state ads that I'm sure were over the top insinuating this stuff in a kind of "scorched earth" negative campaign, apparently the Dems were also engaged in a rather effective whisper campaign to get this type of BS anti-Romney meme out there (and of course, the nut-job rape/abortion statements by various Senate candidates were perfect for feeding that). And Romney couldn't come out and fight the charges directly because it'd turn off the evangelical base. Which, as it turns out, may not have shown up to vote in the expected amounts anyway.

Posted by: Swanny at November 08, 2012 02:46 PM (XzlBE)

25 How much blame should go to the press for embargoing all the bad news from Sandy and how how much should go to Chris Chrisitie for his public fellating of Obama?

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 08, 2012 02:46 PM (4cRnj)

26 Yep. Mitt lost 5 in gallup post-Sandy. Then there was Christie's hug and soundbite sucking off Preezy Cakeboy which the MFM played 24/7 with pix of the JEF in his bomber jacket. Meanwhile, Mitt's campaign was muffled for days.

Posted by: eureka! at November 08, 2012 02:46 PM (UL+ny)

27 Dear Santa:

All I want for Christmas is guns and ammo.

Thanks,
Billy

Posted by: Little Billy at November 08, 2012 02:46 PM (rGC7s)

28 Lets call it what it is: the only thing different about this hurricane then other storms of the past (beyond the super high high tide) was the bipartisan Christie / Obama hug.
The media hyped the storm like it wasKatrina, but instead of showing people suffering and blaming the president, they showed pictures of Obama hugging Christie...
if THAT is truly what changed the election, Christie should be crying harder then when Obama put Bruce on the phone. Assuming, that is, that he believed his rhetoric about this being a very important election for the heart and soul of america and her future.

I guess what I'm saying is that if Christie truly believed what he was saying about Obama leading down the path of ruin, then he purposely was super bi-partisan for his own reasons, which lead directly to the only candidate that can save us losing... Where does that leave him?

Posted by: Timin203 at November 08, 2012 02:46 PM (5WxMt)

29
Old and Busted: SMOD
The New Hotness: Hurricane Sandy

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at November 08, 2012 02:46 PM (eEev7)

30 Once Obama gets rid of the military - I hope Canada invades - they can keep the Northeast and the West Coast.....
And we will buy all the oil they want to sell us.....

Posted by: izoneguy at November 08, 2012 02:46 PM (oKH8p)

31 Thanks. As if I didn't feel bad enough...

Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna really.really bummed at November 08, 2012 02:47 PM (9+ccr)

32 I think Vic makes a good point.

That doesn't explain the Republicans that stayed home.

It's possible that unemployment has reached such a critical mass that it is Republicans who think they might want or need the Dem safety net.

Unemployment has reached such epic proportions that a high unemployment rate for Democrat incumbent President is--

a selling point.

Posted by: tasker at November 08, 2012 02:47 PM (r2PLg)

33 Lou Dobbs has a youtube on electronic voting machines owned AND maintained by VENEZUELA.
I said this looked like Chavez. How astute. I cant post the link.

Posted by: ShameTheShameless at November 08, 2012 02:47 PM (TFeHR)

34 Yes, there were tactical mistakes along the way. But we were overcoming them until the fat man decided to rehabilitate a failed presidency.

Posted by: USA at November 08, 2012 02:47 PM (RIg+t)

35 I agree that the storm may have played a part for voters in NJ, NY, and other northeast states, but I cannot understand how it would have affected any voters in the heartland battleground states like OH, IA, and WI.

Posted by: EC at November 08, 2012 02:47 PM (GQ8sn)

36 Amnesty is a bad idea... notice how it is being pushed by the MSM as their advice to the Republican party? Right, because you want a stronger Republican party. The idea that Latinos now account for 10% of the electorate and support Dems 80/20 is supposed to be the logic for amnesty? Latinos will quickly become 15% of the electorate and still support Dems 80/20. The answer to this election I'm afraid is to wash your hands of it all, and move to Bali. You can live like a king in paradise on about $1k per month.

Posted by: scofflawx at November 08, 2012 02:47 PM (N1Rjx)

37
okay, but Sandy doesn't explain why a lot of 'R's' stayed home

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 08, 2012 02:47 PM (jUytm)

38 What if all the work and effort and thought and prayers we put into this race were undone in 48 hours by a hurricane no one saw coming until October 27th?
___

Chris Matthews and DianeSawyer sacrificed a dozen drunk Irishmen in 30 Rock basement, then drank their bloodto make this happen.

Posted by: kallisto at November 08, 2012 02:47 PM (jm/9g)

39 Ace, it's not that "Sandy" was a factor, it's that so many voters had "sand in their vaginas"

Posted by: wooga at November 08, 2012 02:48 PM (vjyZP)

40 That and the Republican Party can't campaign its way out of a paper bag.

I'd say that'll do it.

Posted by: © Sponge at November 08, 2012 02:48 PM (UK9cE)

41 Short. Attention. Span.

Couple that with the American electorate's obvious need to view candidates, not through policies, but through a combination of us vs. them storytelling and emotional appeals -- hence the effectiveness of the early ads painting Romney as a heartless plutocrat -- and you've got an electorate that is increasingly incapable of making long-term decisions about the scope of government.

Posted by: The Regular Guy at November 08, 2012 02:48 PM (qHCyt)

42 A top aide to Mexico’s President-elect Enrique Pena Nieto says votes to legalize the recreational use of marijuana in Colorado and Washington state will force the Mexican government to rethink its efforts at trying to halt marijuana smuggling across the Southwest border.
Luis Videgaray, former general coordinator of Mr. Pena Nieto’s successful 2012 campaign who now heads the incoming president’s transition team, told Radio Formula 970 in Mexico City the new administration has consistently opposed the legalization of drugs, but the Colorado and Washington state votes are in conflict with his government’s longstanding and costly efforts to eradicate the cultivation and smuggling of marijuana.
“These important modifications change somewhat the rules of the game in the relationship with the United States,” Mr. Videgaray said. “I think we have to carry out a review of our joint policies in regard to drug trafficking and security in general


Let the good times roll. Liberals not understanding the ramifications of their actions again. Good Stuff

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 08, 2012 02:48 PM (79ueO)

43 It wasn't swung by the event itself so much as the media's positive coverage of the event that could just as easily been covered like Katrina.

That and fatboy's ass kissing.

I could never be surprised by how dumb people's reasoning can be behind a vote. That's one area where the Democrat's have definitely been correct and keep getting more correct each cycle. Most voters are in fact morons and need to be appealed to as such.

Posted by: forest at November 08, 2012 02:48 PM (7RBBe)

44 To your point, Ace:

“The course of every intellectual, if he pursues his journey long and unflinchingly enough, ends in the obvious, from which the non-intellectuals have never stirred.” -Aldous Huxley

A storm and a hug swayed this election. Period.

Posted by: Jackleg at November 08, 2012 02:48 PM (0Mr4u)

45 I posted this in a dead thread, so here it is again:

Try this on for size:
Michelle Obama will be the dem nominee in 2016.
She will be unbeatable, the Oprah of politics.
The entire campaign will be waged on The View and GMA.



Posted by: Boots at November 08, 2012 02:48 PM (neKzn)

46 Loser mentality. I was always coached that you play to win by a large enough margin to take luck out of the equation.

Posted by: wpt at November 08, 2012 02:49 PM (5npD/)

47 10 Hurricane Sandy, the MFM and Free Shit.Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 08, 2012 02:44 PM (UOM4 Fixed it for me.

Posted by: cajun carrot at November 08, 2012 02:49 PM (UZQM8)

48 Seriously, if the cause (even just the "proximate" cause) of Mitt Romney's loss on Tuesday was "Superstorm" Sandy, then we're doomed anyway, and Conservatives need to check out of politics and start figuring out ways to survive Lord Humungous' tender mercies.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) All Dead Inside at November 08, 2012 02:49 PM (/eBe8)

49 Old and Busted: SMOD

The New Hotness: Hurricane Sandy


SHOD?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 08, 2012 02:49 PM (SY2Kh)

50
That Mayan thing doesn't kick in until December. So there's hope.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at November 08, 2012 02:49 PM (eEev7)

51 >>>The storm is part of the loss, but not the entire thing, I don't think.

I added more to indicate this. Yes, of course. There are many reasons why we lost, and we shouldn't ignore those others.

But we shouldn't ignore this one, either.

Posted by: ace at November 08, 2012 02:49 PM (LCRYB)

52 Ace

I would not doubt it (in fact, I kinda of think its true). Last minute, low information voters are probably far more likely to decide how to vote for the most random of reasons. Life gives you wierd bounces some time.

Posted by: nc at November 08, 2012 02:49 PM (Cxl7g)

53 26 Yep. Mitt lost 5 in gallup post-Sandy. Then there was Christie's hug and soundbite sucking off Preezy Cakeboy which the MFM played 24/7 with pix of the JEF in his bomber jacket. Meanwhile, Mitt's campaign was muffled for days.
Posted by: eureka! at November 08, 2012 02:46 PM (UL+ny)

___________________

Not only that Romney had to cancel an event in Virginia Beach.

Meanwhile with all the free hurricane Sandy coverage--

Cuomo, Bloomberg and NBC with the stars of The Weather Channel-

ran an infomercial for Global Warming.

Posted by: tasker at November 08, 2012 02:49 PM (r2PLg)

54 Damn those Mad Scientist and their evil weather machines!


Posted by: Deli LLama at November 08, 2012 02:49 PM (lGu1O)

55 Well, if a random act of nature (along with the Quisling like behavior of a fat fuck governor) caused us to lose the election, then G-d is clearly forsaking us or testing us even more than He has done over the past 4 years.

But the fact that we had less voter turnout than for McCain-Palin AFTER enduring SCOAMF and his predations is even more disturbing and puzzling.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 08, 2012 02:49 PM (vCK/R)

56 Also we have to continue to remind ourselves that 10% of the electorate are stupid morons who are a wasite of space and oxygen.
Can you imagine going into the voting booth, as an expample, and seeing the name Sean Beliat Marine Officer, successful businessman, great family man and Joe Kennedy III whose qualification are his last name.
And you vote Kennedy - You are a moron who should not be allowed to vote, period!!

Posted by: bobbymike at November 08, 2012 02:49 PM (9trNv)

57 Posted by: Swanny at November 08, 2012 02:46 PM (XzlBE)

Romney did say he wanted to see Roe vs. Wade overturned.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 08, 2012 02:50 PM (ccXZP)

58 OT

The teenage son (CW Jr.) is now reading the blog...and the comments.

I told him how...colorful...things get around here, and he told me "It's not like I haven't heard it all at school, Dad."

Anyway.

There's a moron-in-training lurking now. Heck, he may be reading this during his last class. In which case -- get back to the books!

Posted by: Captain Whitebread at November 08, 2012 02:50 PM (cVfX0)

59 The liberal media still helped spin the news for Obama. Even with a random event, they controlled the narrative by showing how wonderful the FEMA response was under Obama's watch, and how much Christie appreciated Obama's presence (presence, or presents?time will tell).
The national media replayed for DAYS the video of Christie and Obama walking together. The national media ignored the lack of drinking water and active looting in NYC. Outside of FoxNews, I didn't see any stories pointing the feds in a negative lightl.

Posted by: Dax at November 08, 2012 02:50 PM (gUYGX)

60
Not SHOD, SMOD.

Sweet Meteor of Death. It was a big thing here at ACE for a month or two.

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at November 08, 2012 02:50 PM (eEev7)

61 Try this on for size:

Michelle Obama will be the dem nominee in 2016.

She will be unbeatable, the Oprah of politics.

The entire campaign will be waged on The View and GMA.




No butter or sugar for you!



Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 08, 2012 02:50 PM (UOM48)

62 54 Damn those Mad Scientist and their evil weather machines!

Posted by: Deli LLama at November 08, 2012 02:49 PM (lGu1O)



"Simon says, GO SNOW!!!!!"

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 08, 2012 02:50 PM (vCK/R)

63 Why does one driver skid to a harrowing but safe stop on the shoulder
of the road, while another car skids beneath an 18-wheeler, killing all
inside?

Part of me wants to clutch a dashboard and scream right now...

Posted by: joncelli at November 08, 2012 02:50 PM (RD7QR)

64 >>It's possible that unemployment has reached such a critical mass that it
is Republicans who think they might want or need the Dem safety net.


Good point.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 08, 2012 02:50 PM (4cRnj)

65 "I think people are averse to crediting so much to chance and chaos.

I think chance and chaos play a much, much bigger role in our lives than we're comfortable admitting."

Absolutely correct. I strongly recommend the book The Black Swan by Nassim N. Taleb if you haven't already read it.

Posted by: scofflawx at November 08, 2012 02:51 PM (N1Rjx)

66 I guess we should be glad those carbon taxes will prevent this from ever happening again!

Posted by: Shoot Me at November 08, 2012 02:51 PM (qiXMt)

67 Ultimately the vote was very close in the swing states that mattered.

I don't think the Romney loss can be blamed on one factor. It was a combination of things:

-Intrinsic incumbent advantage (that always helps).
-Unprecedented media bias for Obama.
-Strong Obama ground game vs weaker Romney one.
-Hurricane.
-Limitations of Romney as a candidate (vis a vis Obamacare).

Posted by: looking closely at November 08, 2012 02:51 PM (PwGfd)

68 51 >>>The storm is part of the loss, but not the entire thing, I don't think.

I added more to indicate this. Yes, of course. There are many reasons why we lost, and we shouldn't ignore those others.

But we shouldn't ignore this one, either.
Posted by: ace at November 08, 2012 02:49 PM (LCRYB)

___________________

So basically our base and the campaign was a cluster....[....]....failure.

Posted by: tasker at November 08, 2012 02:51 PM (r2PLg)

69 Like missing the chipshot FG for the win at the end of regulation does not make the kicker the one who lost the game, the situation of the country should not have had the election this close.

The Black Swan is irrelevant in understanding the electorate. We are not the nation we thought we were and only real pain has the power to stop our slide. Great Depression pain.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 08, 2012 02:51 PM (evdj2)

70 #24 - exactly. Trouble is, no one @ the GOP (and a few here) want to understand that reality.

Posted by: Jess1 at November 08, 2012 02:51 PM (LwGY+)

71 I agree that the storm may have played a part for voters in NJ, NY, and other northeast states, but I cannot understand how it would have affected any voters in the heartland battleground states like OH, IA, and WI.
Posted by: EC at November 08, 2012 02:47 PM (GQ8sn)

Because instead of the Media, or some of the media, focusing on the economy and Behgahzi, all they talked about was the storm for a long time right before the election in that last week. Lost momentum for Romney and good press for obama. And that was NATIONWIDE

Posted by: Nevergiveup at November 08, 2012 02:51 PM (79ueO)

72 (in case gets lost in previous posts)

OT: Long time lurker, real first time poster here. Needed to get out my anger about Tuesday and thanks to Ace, the crew, and posters for the opportunity to and smile in face of all this adversity. Tip sent as a thank you!

Back to business:

Let. It. Burn.

Posted by: Astronaut Achmed at November 08, 2012 02:51 PM (YLZSZ)

73 I didn't buy it at first either. What could the storm have to do with voters outside of NY and NJ.

The battle was to convince voters that Obama was out of touch, ineffective, disengaged and unable to work in a bi-partisan manner. I do believe the fat man destroyed that work with a wet kiss.

Posted by: USA at November 08, 2012 02:51 PM (RIg+t)

74 I am past caring about why we lost this election. It was lost.

I am more concerned about now. Like how can I bring the pain to some stupid liberal.

Not physical pain. I am not inclined to start beating stupid lefties......unless my college age daughter makes the mistake of bringing one home and calling him "boyfriend".

I mean hurting them financially. Hurting their all important feelings.

I wanna break some of their stupid participation trophies that mean so much to them.

I know this probably is not the way to go through life. But I am tired of being the better person.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 08, 2012 02:51 PM (OWjjx)

75 >>That doesn't explain the Republicans that stayed home.

As I mentioned two threads down, I don't think the Republicans that stayed home had much, if any effect on the outcome. Romney did better than McCain did in total votes in swing states. He did much, much worse in populace states like CA, NY and TX were their votes were inconsequential from an electoral vote standpoint.

Posted by: angler at November 08, 2012 02:51 PM (SwjAj)

76
14It still doesn't explain 32% registered Republican turnout (I still haven't seen a source quote for this stat). It doesn't explain why, at best, Romney matched McCain total vote numbers.

--------------

Lou Dobbs used that stat last night.
He was as gobsmacked as the rest of us are about it....and went on about it for a while.

I'm still trying to figure it out.

The only thing that it corresponds to...are the numbers that Romney got, early in the Primaries.
A year ago, 2/3 of the R's wanted someone else.
On 11/06/12...2/3 of the R's sat home.

I can't believe that so many R's would be so...stubborn...that they would let the country burn, rather than vote for Romney.
He wasn't my first choice either.
But, damn.
Compared to Barky, there was no choice.

Posted by: wheatie at November 08, 2012 02:52 PM (ICEh3)

77 It's real easy why the GOP lost. It couldn't explain to the public why guys like Romney should have $250 MILLION and still get tax breaks while the rolls are swamped with welfare cases and unemployment is over 8%. Social issues certainly didn't help. A lib pol says "I'm Catholic but I don't let me religious beliefs dictate how I vote on laws" -- the public likes that. A con pol says "I'm Catholic and my religious beliefs dictate how I vote on laws" -- the public does not like that.

Posted by: SFGoth at November 08, 2012 02:52 PM (dZ756)

78 57 Romney did say he wanted to see Roe vs. Wade overturned.
Posted by: GnuBreed at November 08, 2012 02:50 PM (ccXZP)

Then the evangelical vote alone would have given him a 57 state sweep, including OIHO.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 08, 2012 02:52 PM (vCK/R)

79
This is why the "voting is our sacred right" bullshit has to go by the wayside. it is true thatmen have fought and died for the right but its become cheap,bought and sold and exercised with little thought or sense of responsibility.voting needs to be made difficult and require an effort to make it sacred again

Posted by: kj at November 08, 2012 02:52 PM (AW9md)

80 Delusion is fun!

The old Ace would have had a penetrating, if slightly creepy, analysis. The new Ace lobotomized by the Democratic Borg’s Final Victory is pinning it on Frankenstorm? Someone call a medic.

Anyway, even if these exit polls are right about what people say, it totally disregards why people answer like this. It’s the same as the Silent Tory. Some people want to be known as Discerning and Independent. So, they pretend that they have been undecided until late.

Moreover, some people don’t want to verbalize that they voted for Obama because of some bee in their bonnet about Samantha Fluke or what have you. These people also have an incentive to say something socially acceptable like they were impressed by Obama’s great leadership in the aftermath of a National Tragedy. But that ain’t why they voted Democrat if they weren’t already 9/10 of the way there.

Posted by: Old Ace at November 08, 2012 02:52 PM (Oi2TU)

81 I think chance and chaos play a much, much bigger role in our lives than we're comfortable admitting. We tend to screen it out.


Conspiracy theories are so seductive because they place a layer of rationality and control on terrible events.


I'm one of those people who presumes if someone is five minutes late, they are dead in a ditch. When I am mocked for this, and oh how I am mocked for this, I point out that I worked for a personal injury law firm for 12 years. You cannot tell me that people don't get creamed by a bus while driving home since my entire work life involved people who got into horrible accidents while going somewhere else.


Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 08, 2012 02:52 PM (VtjlW)

82 Hmmmm.

Hurricane Sandy.

Fatman hug.

MSM covering Fatman hug.

NO MSM COVERAGE of Romney turning campaign stop into supply drive coupled together with mass reporting of supposed Red Cross rejection of said Romney supplies.


This country is starting to suck.

Posted by: © Sponge at November 08, 2012 02:52 PM (UK9cE)

83 ok, let's outlaw hurricanes in election years. whew that was easy.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 08, 2012 02:53 PM (QxSug)

84 We kinda have always thought this was a "big issues" election. We played it that way, sold it that way, acted that way.
The Dems played small ball and we laughed. Turns out they were right. Between this being Bizzaro '04 redux, us not getting our people out to vote, and the hurricane, the more I am convinced this particular election turned on the picayune.
Future elections will turn on demographics (which if Trende is correct haven't advanced much in 8 years so much as turnout changed) but I think even that is based on the faulty assumption of steady immigration which has been negative since 08. We need to make inroads here, but this particular election was about GOTV and we didn't.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 08, 2012 02:53 PM (t06LC)

85

The roof the roof the roof is on fire
The roof the roof the roof is on fire
The roof the roof the roof is on fire
We don't need no water let the motherfucker burn
Burn motherfucker burn

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 08, 2012 02:53 PM (evdj2)

86 34
Yes, there were tactical mistakes along the way. But we were overcoming
them until the fat man decided to rehabilitate a failed presidency.

Posted by: USA

Right, because if NJ had elected a Dem, things would have been completely different in favor of the GOP....

Posted by: SFGoth at November 08, 2012 02:53 PM (dZ756)

87 tinyurl.com/b9b3dyt

That is the only direction forward I can see for the GOP.

Posted by: entropy at November 08, 2012 02:53 PM (TULs6)

88 Wonder how many Obamabot douches will show up to the coronation this year? Over/under on leaving the National Mall covered in trash?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 08, 2012 02:53 PM (UOM48)

89 #42

Corrupt Mexican officials worrying about Narco drug money drying up, because of Americans buying American?


Posted by: looking closely at November 08, 2012 02:53 PM (PwGfd)

90 Not SHOD, SMOD.



Sweet Meteor of Death. It was a big thing here at ACE for a month or two.


I know. I was wondering if SMOD is on hold waiting for the Sweet Hurricane of Death.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 08, 2012 02:53 PM (SY2Kh)

91 And Chris Christie....that 50 I sent you last time.

Yea, don't hold your breath.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 08, 2012 02:53 PM (OWjjx)

92 I told everyone last week that Hurricane Sandy and Chris Christie's treachery would give Obama the election. I was called a concern troll and a Lefty for speaking the truth.

Now I see this blog is agreeing with what I saw a week ago.

Told you so!

Posted by: Hector at November 08, 2012 02:53 PM (TVbdM)

93 **NO MSM COVERAGE of Romney turning campaign stop into supply drive coupled together with mass reporting of supposed Red Cross rejection of said Romney supplies.**

actually, they mocked it. so, you're wrong. They covered it. negatively.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 08, 2012 02:53 PM (QxSug)

94
Where do you guys see the unemployment rate and gas prices one year from now?

4 years from now?

UE in 11/2013: 10.5%
Gas in 11/2013: $3.95

UE in 11/2016: ??
Gas in 11/2016: ??

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 08, 2012 02:53 PM (jUytm)

95 "then maybe we truly not fit for self governance any more."

A large segment, according to one of our founders, is not fit to be governed by our constitution.

Most of you know the quote.

Posted by: teej says go K-State at November 08, 2012 02:54 PM (erYRT)

96 You know... During the Bush years, the liberals constantly talked about / joked about how stupid americans were, and it always rubbed me the wrong way.
After this election, I'm really seeing the American public differently. All the stupid lazy people I know... They voted. The smart, hard working people I know (who were overwhelmingly pro-romney, although they obviously were a little apolitical) didn't. They didn't want to take the time to register, or take off work, or wait in lines, or whatever their reasons...
I think this is the new normal, and the writing has been on the wall since '06. The lazy idiots show out big (its FUN! and like voting on american idol) because they have nothing better to do with their time... Even with 100% turnout of the hard-working, white collar people, I don't think we can overcome the lazy no collar vote.
I really think its over.

Posted by: Timin203 at November 08, 2012 02:54 PM (5WxMt)

97
It's real easy why the GOP lost. It couldn't explain to the public why
guys like Romney should have $250 MILLION and still get tax breaks while
the rolls are swamped with welfare cases and unemployment is over 8%Posted by: SFGoth


I heard Romney say we needed a fairer and flatter tax system. I heard him say that he would close loopholes.

Did you hear any of that?

Posted by: burned cut-loop at November 08, 2012 02:54 PM (SX6wc)

98 92 Told you so!
Posted by: Hector at November 08, 2012 02:53 PM (TVbdM)


Stop Hectoring us.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 08, 2012 02:54 PM (vCK/R)

99 Mickey D's and Boeing are laying off workers.

Smell the Hope and Change.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 08, 2012 02:55 PM (UOM48)

100 Yes, Christie is a fat ass for doing what he did....it still boils down to people being so friggin' shallow and stupid that a 90 minute photo op can change their vote for someone who has done everything wrong the past 4 years. 90 mins......

Posted by: Tami at November 08, 2012 02:55 PM (X6akg)

101 At least Pelosi is not Speaker with radcial Chairman like Conyers, Rangel, and Waxman.

House Dems were big losers Tuesday. They have no power in the House, and not until at least 2016

Posted by: Jack J at November 08, 2012 02:55 PM (t4nf+)

102 Here is THE definitive answer:

If you're unemployed, you have more time to vote.

Discuss amongst yourselves.

Posted by: looking closely at November 08, 2012 02:55 PM (PwGfd)

103 Datum: 12% of all voters made up their minds in the last week before the election.

This is BS, and is "datum" only based on exit polls - pure BS. Those people had made up their minds long before (polls taken just before the election showed about 1% undecided).

Hadn't been Sandy, it would have been something else. Yes - Romney ran a fine campaign, and Obama ran a crappy, desperate campaign. But in the end, all it came down to was self-sufficiency versus Nanny state.

People want a nanny state. It is inevitable in a democracy - it will only last so long, and our time is up.

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a
permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up
until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves
generous gifts from the public treasury." - source disputed.

Posted by: A One-Eyed Cat Peepin' in the Seafood Store at November 08, 2012 02:55 PM (eMtQ2)

104 The GOP is out of power and it needs to play to the disaffected. The disaffected are not the wealthy, an obvious point that conservatives can't seem to understand. The wealthy got wealthier under Obama, and corporations earned record profits while median family earnings fell. Obama uses these facts to defuse the charges he's a socialist. Republicans should use them to show that Obama's big government expands the privileges of the privileged class.

Instead of trying to convince successful people that Democrats will take away their wealth, why not explain to the middle class that big government is keeping them down?

Americans look at Washington and know the game is rigged against them. Conservatives can promise to level the field by getting the bureaucrats and politicians out of it.

Regulations disproportionately harm small businesses and thus benefit the big guys who can afford to hire Byron or Kimberly Dorgan. Bailouts of existing giants keep entrepreneurs from entering a field.

Every small businessman, ambitious immigrant, and would-be-entrepreneur should be a Republican. So should every working man who sees his tax dollars going to Warren Buffett, General Electric and Pfizer.

Democrats run the game these days, and that game is rigged. Republicans need to woo those are losing the game.

Posted by: entropy at November 08, 2012 02:55 PM (TULs6)

105 I'm still going with widespread voting fraud.

Wide.

Spread.

Posted by: Joe Mama at November 08, 2012 02:56 PM (JJ+PT)

106
If someone was either ignoring the issues until the last week or changed his mind because the sight of BO in a bomber jacket made his heart go aflutter, then the big themes about the nature of the electorate still hold, I think.

A voter who bases his vote on the Hurricane Sandy photo-ops is not a serious voter, and conservatives will rarely, if ever, appeal to him. Sad but true.

Posted by: JohnTant at November 08, 2012 02:56 PM (eytER)

107
oh, and R.I.P. Preference Cascade

might as well cosult a horoscope

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 08, 2012 02:56 PM (jUytm)

108 I think a large part of the electorate have the equivalent intellect of an ADHD 8-year old, and think Uncle Barry is going to come through with that promise of hot dogs and ice cream for breakfast, lunch, and dinner for the next four years.

Posted by: Chopper Chang at November 08, 2012 02:56 PM (Xa1VJ)

109 94 Posted by: Soothsayer at November 08, 2012 02:53 PM (jUytm)

Gas is cheap and plentiful since it will be illegal.

Unemployment? Full employment. Everyone gets a shovel and a ditch to dig and fill...

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 08, 2012 02:56 PM (vCK/R)

110 Honey Boo Boo voters decided the next 4 years if not 60 years. And be ready to reboot when the EBT cards are cut.

Posted by: Trevor (@TJexcite) at November 08, 2012 02:56 PM (Ea64Y)

111 I'm one of those people who presumes if someone is five minutes late,
they are dead in a ditch. When I am mocked for this, and oh how I am
mocked for this, I point out that I worked for a personal injury law
firm for 12 years. You cannot tell me that people don't get creamed by
a bus while driving home since my entire work life involved people who
got into horrible accidents while going somewhere else.


So if you don't post here in X number of days, we should really worry?

Well, there are ways to mitigate this. First, you'll have to give us your phone number, then a picture of you (preferably in the stompyboots) so we know who to look for and identify at the coroner's office.

Posted by: EC at November 08, 2012 02:56 PM (GQ8sn)

112 @ 98 J.J. Sefton

I will not because I want Conservatives to wake up, adapt to the new reality and defeat the Left.

Posted by: Hector at November 08, 2012 02:56 PM (TVbdM)

113 >>okay, but Sandy doesn't explain why a lot of 'R's' stayed home

I'll repost my possible explanation from a previous thread, fwiw:

Excuse the length, but Romney's undervote of approximately 3 million
compared to McCain's totals in 2008 bothered me, and I looked into it
for an explanation.

I focused on the swing states - states that if Romney had carried would have given him the EVs necessary to win.

In
2012 Florida, Obama received 20,158 more votes than in 2008. Romney
received 173,867 more than McCain did in 2008. No undervote for either.

In
2012 Virginia, Obama received 73,182 less votes than in 2008. Romney
was plus 46,249. Undervote for Obama, overvote for Romney.

In 2012 Ohio, Obama received 11,377 less votes than in 2008. Romney was plus 91,932. Undervote for Obama, overvote for Romney.

In New Hampshire, Obama received 17,260 less votes than in 2008. Romney was plus 9,744.

Winning FL, VA, OH, and NH would have given Romney 270 EVs.

If Romney overperformed in these swing states, where did the undervoting happen?

Well, in California, Romney received 738,884 less votes in 2012 than McCain received in 2008.

In New York, he received 500,041 less.

And in Texas, he received 88,051 less.

It
appears that this undervote came from two things: Republicans in
populace, deep blue state stayed home because it was futile; and
Republicans in populace, deep red states took their foot on the gas
because their participation was not necessary to carry the state.

This doesn't account for the whole 3 million, but it explains a lot.

Bottom line, it doesn't look like the 3 million's non-participation made much of a difference.

Posted by: angler at November 08, 2012 02:56 PM (SwjAj)

114 I'm hoping for grizzly bears pwith AIDS on crack.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 08, 2012 02:56 PM (jGpsK)

115 TFG won on no real agenda outside of a few people paying a little more and a shitload of gimmicks. He went almost exclusively on low info media platforms. There is no doubt people vote for stupid reasons, and the Obama campaign was well ahead of the curve on exactly how far gone that is.

So, sure, lesson learned there. I'm just not sure how we'd go about taking anything remotely similar as a strategy. If we did, the WWE refs on the networks would hit us over the head with a chair.

Posted by: Dave S. at November 08, 2012 02:56 PM (UvR6d)

116 As Rush said yesterday, "It's hard to run against Santa Claus." Especially if the only alternative you are offering to the moochers and the looters is you have to be your OWN Santa Claus.

Who is John Galt?

Posted by: GaryL at November 08, 2012 02:57 PM (IAv8z)

117 105, me too.

But that doesn't help us unless we push for voter ID laws.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 08, 2012 02:57 PM (QxSug)

118 no one saw coming until October 27th?

Joe Bastardi tweets on Oct 24:

"Gasp.. High tides on east coast early next week cause of moon anyway.
This adds more to the witches brew of weather in front of us"

He actually called the location within about 50 miles on the Sunday before.

Someone you should definitely follow on twitter. He's good stuff, doesn't
sniff the AGW glue, and was a Romney fan.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 08, 2012 02:57 PM (feFL6)

119 It's real easy why the GOP lost. It couldn't explain to the public why guys like Romney should have $250 MILLION and still get tax breaks while the rolls are swamped with welfare cases and unemployment is over 8%.

Tax Breaks? You mean the current rates? The ones we've had for 11 years? The ones renewed by Congresses and Presidents of both parties?

Those tax breaks?

I don't even know what to say reading this.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 08, 2012 02:57 PM (evdj2)

120 97


It's real easy why the GOP lost. It couldn't explain to the public why

guys like Romney should have $250 MILLION and still get tax breaks while

the rolls are swamped with welfare cases and unemployment is over 8%Posted by: SFGoth

I heard Romney say we needed a fairer and flatter tax system. I heard him say that he would close loopholes. Did you hear any of that?Posted by: burned cut-loop

Yeah, I did. What's your point? Obama voters see this stuff as tax cuts for the rich. Where are you going to get the $ to make up for the $ the rich aren't paying? That's what's not dealt with. Very few in the GOP can explain economics, which isn't surprising given the visibility of those who don't even know how vaginas work.

Posted by: SFGoth at November 08, 2012 02:57 PM (dZ756)

121 But 90% of the workings of the world are, in fact, obvious and stupid.
If you search only for the subtle and clever, you'll actually wind up
missing the solution 90% of the time.






Biden: That means I should have the solution 90% of the time

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 08, 2012 02:57 PM (1Jaio)

122 Demagoguery works. Conservatives better take a refresher course! We once were pretty good at this stuff. Today? Well, lets just say McCarthy and Atwater probably rotate in their graves.

We need to give up the "adult conversation" crap. Its delusional and its why I want Ryan to stay in the House. He is too nice,idealistic andnaive.

Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 08, 2012 02:57 PM (8EBWh)

123 105 I'm still going with widespread voting fraud.

Wide.

Spread.
Posted by: Joe Mama at November 08, 2012 02:56 PM (JJ+PT)


The only thing that was spread wide was our collective corn holes, as Rules for Radicals was shoved up them.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 08, 2012 02:57 PM (vCK/R)

124
Too convenient.
there is a mighty host ofvalid reasons why the GOP got bitch-slapped Tuesday and "the political effects of a freak superstorm" is pretty much at the bottom of the list.
Its ON the list, but its not a top 5 reason.

Posted by: MikeD at November 08, 2012 02:57 PM (p8QOg)

125
Feeling rather dense butwas the GOTVin Pennsylvania actually poor? Can anyone explain it to me inbasic terms, as if I had been drinking all day and felt down a flight of stairs?

Looking at the registered voters in PA by county and total, I have a hard time believing that tons of Republicans sat it out. There are 3.1 million registered R's and 4.2 million D's....yet Barky only won with 2.9 versus Romney's 2.6. (Indies and affiliated third party voters account for an additional one million in that state.)

In 2008, Obama won with 3.2 versus McCain's 2.6.

Perhaps Romney pulling the same as McCain is suspicious or is it possible that state just can't be overcome when a celebrity idol is running for office? With an eight to one D/R ratio in Philadelphia, how do you convince leeches not to vote for their freebies and phones, or against identity politics?

Posted by: Unruly at November 08, 2012 02:58 PM (2h1eI)

126 I posted this earlier, but on the 32% number:
on this 68% of Repubicans stayed home meme - Dobbs was probably referencing the exit polls that calculated the voting electorate as 38% Dem, 32% Rep, 30% Ind. Not that only 32% of Rep voted.

Posted by: tofer732 at November 08, 2012 02:58 PM (2zM0P)

127 <i>I think this is the new normal, and the writing has been on the wall since '06. The lazy idiots show out big (its FUN! and like voting on american idol) because they have nothing better to do with their time... Even with 100% turnout of the hard-working, white collar people, I don't think we can overcome the lazy no collar vote. </i>

Hello. "<i>The disaffected are not the wealthy, an obvious point that conservatives can't seem to understand.</i>"

tinyurl.com/b9b3dyt

Republicans seem to think they are too good for most of the voters.

Posted by: entropy at November 08, 2012 02:58 PM (TULs6)

128 And Akin's and Mourdock's decision to really ramp up the War on Women narrative lost us all sorts of otherwise gettable votes.


I think they were more responsible for us losing the Senate. The RNC needs to hire some real experts, fire the assholes like Rove and conduct a school for ALL Republican candidates on how to talk to the MFM without sticking your dick in your mouth.

Posted by: Vic at November 08, 2012 02:58 PM (YdQQY)

129 But the election was never about "big issues" so-called voters claimed to care about - like the economy, jobs, gov't spending, taxes and debt.

It was about Big Bird, and "Binders of Women", and "legitimate rape", and 1%, 99% and 47%. It was about "Romnesia". It was about lady parts, twitter and a whole host of things OTHER THAN the "one thing" that we were told "everyone cares about".

Credit Choomy and his media protectors for that - he could never, ever have been elected otherwise.

Posted by: DocJ at November 08, 2012 02:58 PM (+uFNC)

130 So, somehow we have to attract stupider, more irresponsible voters with smarter, more responsible candidates and policies. Kind of hard to square that circle.

Posted by: t-bird at November 08, 2012 02:58 PM (FcR7P)

131 112 @ 98 J.J. Sefton

I will not because I want Conservatives to wake up, adapt to the new reality and defeat the Left.
Posted by: Hector at November 08, 2012 02:56 PM (TVbdM)

Lighten up, Francis, er, Hector.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 08, 2012 02:59 PM (vCK/R)

132 Sorry, but this election was stolen. You guys don't want to believe it, but you better look again at who we are dealing with. And Smartmatic. In Venezuela. In 21 states. Voting machines with no way to determine how votes were counted.
I called my rep, and Gov to reinstate paper ballots in the entire state.
Thats why the numbers at events, enthusiasm of the R voters didnt phase the cockiness of the SCOAMF team. Every election It has ever won, was by fraud.
Sandy didn't do shit except piss off o's base. That makes no sense, that it swung the election. Oh, yeah, a video is why we have dead Americans in Fibya.

Posted by: ShameTheShameless at November 08, 2012 02:59 PM (TFeHR)

133 Two points:

1) ORCA was a complete cluster. I'll provide details if someone else doesn't.

2) ALWAYS wait until the immediate effects of a loss (or victory) have worn off before you start drawing conclusions and acting on them. ALWAYS. The data hasn't even come in yet. But besides that, everyone wants to jump in to declare what The Big Thing was that cost us the election before anyone else can scoop it. There is a lot of time to figure out what went wrong and course correct. But it can be really hard to change a narrative that sticks from the beginning because conclusions were drawn too quickly.

Bonus: this election was like losing a basketball game by five points. A loss is a loss, but really if you think about it, it was a three pointer that rimmed out, a couple missed free throws, a bad call, a dropped rebound, etc. And then the whole narrative changes, even though it was just a few random plays. It would be a big mistake to trade the whole team and fire the coach over it.


Posted by: Matt at November 08, 2012 02:59 PM (ljiM/)

134 Not buying the Sandy thing. It didn't energize anyone to vote. The 42% that claim it played a role were going to vote Brocko anyway.And it didn't have shit to do with states like Florida.


Find out the real reason our side didn't vote. That's the answer, not this shitty excuse you're clinging to a little too easily.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 08, 2012 02:59 PM (uD2fR)

135 Entropy the < > deals to not work. You must use brackets [ ]

Posted by: Vic at November 08, 2012 02:59 PM (YdQQY)

136 breitbart has its polling that shows voter ID laws and immigration restrictions are popular.

We are never going to out left the vichy democrats.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 08, 2012 02:59 PM (QxSug)

137 Right, because if NJ had elected a Dem, things would have been completely different in favor of the GOP....


Posted by: SFGoth


Christie's hug showed bipartisanship which, apparently, squishes love above the future of their country.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 08, 2012 02:59 PM (4cRnj)

138
thanks for the breakdown, angler

losing a half a million in CA is a big effin deal, I don't care that the state is blue

there are still millions of good people in CA who are hurting and desperate for real change...yet they didn't bother to vote

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 08, 2012 02:59 PM (jUytm)

139 Well, even there is an analogy to 2004. The Black Swan that year was the Beslan massacre, which terrified suburban moms like me and turned us into Security Moms. I figured at the time that it gave Bush at least a 1-2% boost.

Posted by: rockmom at November 08, 2012 03:00 PM (qe2/V)

140
94
Where do you guys see the unemployment rate and gas prices one year from now?

------------

It won't just be gas prices...even electricity will "necessarily" skyrocket.

There are coal-fired generation plants that are sceduled to be shut down.

Also, food prices are going to be through the roof.

Posted by: wheatie at November 08, 2012 03:00 PM (ICEh3)

141 @113
Okay, thats the raw numbers, but what about those who did vote before? What I mean is did ALL or near all of the 08 voters vote this time or were some of them first time voters and we lost some 08 and 04ers?

Don't forget, as to registration there is a large pool of voters who don't vote at all each election.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 08, 2012 03:00 PM (t06LC)

142 "People are too stupid! It's over!". Well if they are that stupid, it shouldn't be impossible to trick them into voting for their best interest. But you have to stop being too good for them and too good for such tricks.

Tell me, do we still want the icky icky Paulites out out out?

Posted by: entropy at November 08, 2012 03:00 PM (TULs6)

143 Delurking for a moment.

We lost because of three words:

Bread and circuses.

I am currently on the receiving end of some unwarranted vitriol from a relative and his wife because I blocked them on Facebook yesterday. I came home from the store after literally scrounging through my couches for change to buy milk for my kids so I would have to dip into our dangerously low bank funds. I open Facebook and the first things see is these two idiots celebrating the JEF's victory.

Why, you ask? Well, they have a disabled baby and Romney wanted to kill her. I am not kidding, that is exactly what they had posted.

And the mother puts up some crap about how we need more welfare because it's unfair that we won't pay her to stay home with her child. Even though we are already paying out SSDI for her AND half-day in home nursing care (which would be 24-hour if the worthless husband would get off his ass and get a job instead of spending his days playing video games).

And they are angry at me for blocking them for the day. Not commenting. Blocking. Thats all. And for that I am disgusting and uncaring and a horrible, awful, doubleplusungood bitch. This is not the first time they have been angry at me for something I have or have not clicked on Facebook. They are both over 30 and I regulalry get more mature and reasonable behavior from my five-year-old.

So while my family is struggling to make it, the taxes we pay out are going to people like this who are getting not just their basic needs met but luxuries handed to them and it is still not enough to satisfy them.

In a contest of "eat your peas" versus "free shit!" the latter wins out with people like this.

Bread. And. Circuses.

Relurking.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at November 08, 2012 03:00 PM (qFpRI)

144


Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD. Coming not nearly soon enough. at November 08, 2012 02:52 PM (VtjlW)

Accidents, aye, but even moreso, it's just a simply evil world.
(o.O ) Back in '07 I was outside Von Maur in Omaha, Nebraska, heading in to Gamestop to snag something that I have completely forgotten now.

My father called me from our office out of town and said I needed to get back pronto, we had some papers requested by NDOR that he wasn't sure how to fill out.
I left the parking lot and stopped for lunch on the way out of Omaha. As I was getting back on US-75, I got calls and texts from friends across the entire damn nation asking if I was still in Omaha, 'cause some lunatic was shooting up Westroads Mall.
The paperwork, by the way, was hardly essential, and I didn't even complete it that day. It is my belief that God Himself kept me out of the mall that day, because I was not yet a gun owner, and I am pretty damned stupid.

Moral of the story: if people aren't on time, panic is not unwarranted. It is an evil world, full of chaos, and anything, anything can happen.

Posted by: Kinley Ardal at November 08, 2012 03:00 PM (X1PJ8)

145 If Sandy cause a win just wait until the big earthquake in California that is past due. And they have to get a trillion dollar bailout to get the highway rebuilt when there is no trillion left.

Posted by: Trevor (@TJexcite) at November 08, 2012 03:00 PM (Ea64Y)

146 I think they were more responsible for us losing the Senate. The RNC needs to hire some real experts, fire the assholes like Rove and conduct a school for ALL Republican candidates on how to talk to the MFM without sticking your dick in your mouth.

Regarding Akin, not gonna blame him on the RNC. He is an idiot. Rule 1 of politics: If you are in a safe Congressional district and have no chance of losing, go ahead and hire your dumb kid to run your media. If you actually have to campaign.....might want to hire a pro.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 08, 2012 03:00 PM (OWjjx)

147 Posted by: angler at November 08, 2012 02:51 PM (SwjAj)
__
I saw your post on the other thread. There were still about a million votes not accounted. Distributed over the swing states you referenced, they would have made a difference.

Posted by: kallisto at November 08, 2012 03:00 PM (jm/9g)

148 The line between stupid and clever is finer than we thought.

Posted by: Roy at November 08, 2012 03:01 PM (VndSC)

149 Hmmm.. this theory does kinda make sense why Team Obama was acting all mopey in the last days of election, especially in the early morning of voting day. Perhaps the silly Sandy vote had yet to fully materialize in their tracking polls. They were bracing for a -10 margin with independents.

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 08, 2012 03:01 PM (UypUQ)

150 78 JJ Sefton,

Mitt believes that life begins at conception and wishes that the laws of our nation reflected that view. But while the nation remains so divided, he believes that the right next step is for the Supreme Court to overturn Roe v. Wade – a case of blatant judicial activism that took a decision that should be left to the people and placed it in the hands of unelected judges.

Quoted from Romney's web site.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 08, 2012 03:01 PM (ccXZP)

151 I firmly believe if we could do a better job of expressing conservatives principles and not talk about God wanting to rape women, we would win every election. We would have beat President 16 Trillion 8% by something like 97% to 3%. Roughly.

Posted by: AndrewsDad at November 08, 2012 03:02 PM (C2//T)

152 Yeah, I did. What's your point? Obama voters see
this stuff as tax cuts for the rich. Where are you going to get the $ to
make up for the $ the rich aren't paying? That's what's not dealt with.
Very few in the GOP can explain economics, which isn't surprising given
the visibility of those who don't even know how vaginas work.Posted by: SFGoth


Ah, I got it. So we have to 'pay for tax cuts.'

Well, if you accept that line of reasoning, nothing I write will convince you otherwise.



Posted by: burned cut-loop at November 08, 2012 03:02 PM (SX6wc)

153 We're all now saying "the polls were right." But if the polls were right, they were also right earlier.

Yes but then so were the state ones that showed Mitt losing all along, hence the RCP Average and Nate Silver's fancy black-box model (which was essentially copying the RCP Average).


Posted by: DrewM. at November 08, 2012 03:02 PM (x8U/s)

154

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at November 08, 2012 03:00 PM (qFpRI)

Engage cloaking device.

Posted by: James T. Effin' Kirk, connossieur of romulan ale at November 08, 2012 03:02 PM (X1PJ8)

155 angler--

I believe some of the "undervote" in those big states is due to the fact they didn't bother counting all the votes.

In NY, CA, and TX the winner was obvious early. I think they're still just tabulating those votes. They didn't feel the need, I guess, to get them all counted on election night.

Posted by: ace at November 08, 2012 03:02 PM (LCRYB)

156
yeah, but I want numbers

what do you think the state of the economy will be in 11/2013?

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 08, 2012 03:02 PM (jUytm)

157 More than 13,000
people who live in 79 public housing buildings across New York City are
still without electricity 11 days after storm Sandy blew through the
region, causing major flooding and power outages.
The numbers climb to 20,000
residents in 123 public housing buildings when you include those without
heat or hot water—some also have no power—as a nor'easter blew through
Wednesday night, bringing a record-breaking early snow to the city.







You mean photo op didn't fix everything. I'm sure the public housing crowd all voted for Barry and now that he doesn't need publicity of pretending to care they can freeze and starve for all he cares.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 08, 2012 03:03 PM (1Jaio)

158 I've long dreamed of a land where I could talk politics AND weather.

Posted by: CJ at November 08, 2012 03:03 PM (9KqcB)

159 So, somehow we have to attract stupider, more irresponsible voters with
smarter, more responsible candidates and policies. Kind of hard to
square that circle.


Yes. And Yes.

It's all down to packaging. It's almost like some really big egg heads need to sit down and say, "Okay, here's what the Republican Party is going to push for the next X years. Now, let's go find a candidate who is 'just folks' and who people will think 'gee willickers! He cares about us!' and make him the nominee."

I'm only about 1/3 kidding.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) All Dead Inside at November 08, 2012 03:03 PM (/eBe8)

160 It's real easy why the GOP lost. It couldn't explain to the public why
guys like Romney should have $250 MILLION and still get tax breaks while
the rolls are swamped with welfare cases and unemployment is over 8%.


==============


So tell us, oh wise one, how much should Romney have paid? 40% apparently isn't enough for you....so what should it be? How much money should he be 'allowed' to make and keep?

Posted by: Tami at November 08, 2012 03:04 PM (X6akg)

161 so it's an unhealthy combination of an act of God and part of the republican base that said after McCain nominate another moderate and I stay home.... I feel even worse now.

Posted by: we are so screwed at November 08, 2012 03:04 PM (HEa5q)

162 Regarding Akin, not gonna blame him on the RNC. He
is an idiot. Rule 1 of politics: If you are in a safe Congressional
district and have no chance of losing, go ahead and hire your dumb kid
to run your media. If you actually have to campaign.....might want to
hire a pro.





Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 08, 2012 03:00 PM (OWjjx)

Don't misunderstand me. I don't blame the RNC for Akin's stupid shit. I just say they need to conduct some schools for candidates. But first they need to hire some people who know how to campaign and talk to the MFM.

Posted by: Vic at November 08, 2012 03:04 PM (YdQQY)

163 I served as a judge of election on Tuesday in a blue precinct in a blue county in a blue state.

Lots and lots of voters came in with their drivers' license out, ready to prove their identify. It's not required here (haha obviously).

Most of these blue state Obama voters were shocked they didn't have to prove who they were.

Even blue state voters want to make sure their votes count appropriately. It would not be all that difficult to convince a majority of actual citizens that voter ID is the right thing to do.

Some of my blue voters even joked about maybe going to the Iraqi system of purple fingers to show who had already voted.

Posted by: Boots at November 08, 2012 03:04 PM (neKzn)

164 Seriously?
That's like bitching when your team gets a bad call for holding in the endzone, when the scrimmage line was the 10.
If you're in circumstances where that will kill you, then you weren't in it to begin with.

Posted by: Roland THTG at November 08, 2012 03:04 PM (I7O5y)

165 what do you think the state of the economy will be in 11/2013?

Well, Sooth, there will be state of the economy on 11/20/13

The reality will be very crappy.

However, the media will declare that it is a "slow, constant, steady recovery!"


And most voters will begin debating the very important issue of the day....which Kardashian is pregnate?

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 08, 2012 03:04 PM (OWjjx)

166
Congress is about to embark on really really important legislation that will greatly impact our economy in the short and long term.

The election is over. It's history. We have really big things coming up on us, fast.

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 08, 2012 03:04 PM (jUytm)

167 MandyP,
Perhaps it's time for you to take Dennis Miller's advice and sit down, relax, go on welfare, and let Uncle Sugar take care of your family. It seems to be working very well for the in-laws.
Burn it down from the inside.

Posted by: Dax at November 08, 2012 03:05 PM (gUYGX)

168
A niece said she voted for Obama. I asked why. She voted with her lady parts. She's a product of the vaunted Iowa educational system. How depressing. It goes to show that nobody ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public, and nobody is going to lose an election by underestimating its intelligence.

Posted by: Cynical AND Depressed at November 08, 2012 03:05 PM (FwP/x)

169 I actually believe this more than anything -- that it was the hurricane which shifted everything. I'm willing to believe this more than any of the other reasons -- which are all valid by the way. But I really truly think it came down to one big storm, tragically.

Posted by: Sassy at November 08, 2012 03:05 PM (detCI)

170 Well we know the real reason why Obama won 95% of the black vote.

But if we look at exit poll data of blacks they will say all sorts of other reasons, right?

They'll mention leadership, and the economy, and Sandy, and foreign policy. What they won't do is admit the truth, that race was a huge factor in who they voted for.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 08, 2012 03:05 PM (ZPrif)

171 I just mentioned this idea to a friend earlier at lunch. During a disaster, it is not uncommon for people to rally around their leader. A lot of people seek security when they are scared or threatened, and will cling to what they already have.

I suspect that Hurricane Sandy is indeed a significant factor in voters sticking with what they had. Of course the NUMBER ONE factor is the fact that the MEDIA is part of the Enemy combat corps.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 03:05 PM (R9579)

172 Don't forget to count the damage that could have been inflicted on a the sitting president if the national media had chosen to cover Sandy like Katrina. Challenger was up going into the storm, would have been up by alot more coming out.

Posted by: forest at November 08, 2012 03:05 PM (7RBBe)

173 The answer to this election I'm afraid is to wash your hands of it all, and move to Bali. You can live like a king in paradise on about $1k per month.
Posted by: scofflawx at November 08, 2012 02:47 PM (N1Rjx)


----------------------------------------------


It's beautiful there and most of the people love Americans. BUT, it's part of Indonesia, and there's a slow, subtle, creeping encroachment of islam there.

If one remembers, it's where 200 died in that nightclub terrorist bombing.

Posted by: Soona at November 08, 2012 03:05 PM (MvRmr)

174
Ace is right. I hadn't thought of it before, but it makes sense. When Sandy became a factor people would have moved toward Obama. Not necessarily because he would do a better job though. But because people tend to stay with the known when a crisis occurs. They felt more comfortable allowing Obama's admin to take care of things. And I hate to say it, but in the far recesses of their minds they remembered Katrina and perhaps were buying the media spin about Bush and equated that toRomney. I doubt they actually thought all this out, it was probably more of a gut reaction. Hey, simple minds, simple solutions. Don't forget,most of the NEis Liberal anyway but this could have been the decider for some moderates. And come on, after all the primaries, all the campaigning, all the media...these people were still somewhat on the fence? I think they saw a simple answer and took it.
Now as for the other idiotswho voted for Obama...

Posted by: Deanna at November 08, 2012 03:05 PM (+npP4)

175 Michelle Obama will be the dem nominee in 2016.


She will be unbeatable, the Oprah of politics.


The entire campaign will be waged on The View and GMA.


The sad part is that someone's already travelled into the future and put together audio snippets from Michelle's speech at the 2016 DNC.

http://tinyurl.com/bunlsyn

Posted by: Armando at November 08, 2012 03:06 PM (5iuEW)

176 Chris Christie is teh AWESOME!

Posted by: A. Coulter at November 08, 2012 03:06 PM (C34KJ)

177 119 It's real easy why the GOP lost. It couldn't explain to the public why guys like Romney should have $250 MILLION and still get tax breaks while the rolls are swamped with welfare cases and unemployment is over 8%.

Tax Breaks? You mean the current rates? The ones we've had for 11 years? The ones renewed by Congresses and Presidents of both parties?

Those tax breaks?

I don't even know what to say reading this.
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 08, 2012 02:57 PM (evdj2)

-----

Taking that a step further, assume he's talking about loopholes. You mean the loopholes they campaigned on reducing?

Posted by: Dave S. at November 08, 2012 03:06 PM (UvR6d)

178 tinyurl.com/blvu5zp

The democrats have becomea hardcoreauthoritarian statist party. You can't edge them out there.

Populism in this country currently has no vehicle. If you want to take down an elitist technocrat, they are the only ones with the historically proven game plan. Use it.

Posted by: entropy at November 08, 2012 03:06 PM (TULs6)

179 Many millions of people knew who they were going to vote for before hurricane Sandy.

Many millions of people were convinced by poll data that Romney was 5 points ahead.

Many millions of people saw long lines and said "not worth the trouble".

Posted by: Occam S Razor at November 08, 2012 03:06 PM (Qxe/p)

180
They'll mention leadership, and the economy, and Sandy, and foreign
policy. What they won't do is admit the truth, that race was a huge
factor in who they voted for.


Ahh yes, the Samuel Jackson gambit.

"I'M VOTING OBAMA 'CAUSE HE'S BLACK!!!!!"

Posted by: EC at November 08, 2012 03:06 PM (GQ8sn)

181 Posted by: Vic at November 08, 2012 03:04 PM (YdQQY)

they actually already do. And most state organizations have weekend schools for campaigns to come and get information.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 08, 2012 03:06 PM (OWjjx)

182 Well if they are that stupid, it shouldn't be impossible to trick them into voting for their best interest.

What we think is their best interest is not what they think is their best interest.

Free Shit and Feeling Good. That's what they believe is their best interest.

Posted by: HeatherRadish, Crankypants at November 08, 2012 03:06 PM (/kI1Q)

183 If this is right then I owe Samwise an apology.

Posted by: GalosGann at November 08, 2012 03:06 PM (T3KlW)

184 Radio is saying Iran fired on a drone. I guess they just don't fear Chicago Jesus. They better be careful he might smote them with his staff.

Posted by: elections have consequences at November 08, 2012 03:06 PM (Kflw4)

185
Is this the acceptance part of the progression yet?

I've already moved on to updating my 10 year plan.

See ya around the nextbend. Heading to the big city for some rehearsals anda rock and roll gig. Live goes on, and it's a good life for now.

Prepare. If you don't have a5 year plan, a ten and a twnety year plan, you should get started. In writing. Good luck, see you late tonight on the ONT.

Posted by: Meremortal at November 08, 2012 03:07 PM (1Y+hH)

186
Here's what I see coming:

I think Congress is really gonna mess this up. I mean some really stupid legislation will emerge by Christmas.

The media will love it. Obama will love it. We'll be fuming at Boehner.

Then the recession comes. We will be in full recession by July 2013.

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 08, 2012 03:07 PM (jUytm)

187 Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at November 08, 2012 03:00 PM (qFpRI)


There is no way to know if they're being blocked on FB. How would they know that?

Posted by: Tami at November 08, 2012 03:07 PM (X6akg)

188 The storm shift is immaterial to the greater problem.

Not only should have we won, it shouldn't have been close.

Posted by: burned cut-loop at November 08, 2012 03:07 PM (SX6wc)

189 Occams Hurricane?

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 08, 2012 03:08 PM (lZBBB)

190 It's real easy why the GOP lost. It couldn't explain to the public why guys like Romney should have $250 MILLION and still get tax breaks while the rolls are swamped with welfare cases and unemployment is over 8%.

See... there you go. Barack Obama is a rich rich man too, you know. But we're too good for that stuff, apparently.

Posted by: entropy at November 08, 2012 03:08 PM (TULs6)

191 I believe Sandy hurt Romney w/ independents and women. It showed him in the positive light you talk about (e.g., bi-partisan).

It also hurt because it put climate change on the front burner, when many, many Rs won't even acknowledge it's happening let alone come up w/ a conservative alternative to cap and trade.

Btw, even if you're not a vegetarian you might want to put a tofu burger on your diner's menu, because a lot of people are vegetarians.

In other words, even if you don't think climate change is man made, you had better explain that it's happening naturally and appear that you're taking the concerns of people seriously.

But we still have people on our side using this snowstorm in Jersey as reason it's not happening at all...in the eyes of many it makes our side seem entirely unserious on the issue, and I think things like that damaged Romney.

None of this explains, though, why the R Base didn't turn out, or that, for example, blacks would turnout more for O this time than last. Things like that completely surprised me, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

It makes me think that w/out Sandy O would still have gotten more or less the same number of states and electoral votes, but just would have had a smaller popular vote margin.

Posted by: trickamsterdam at November 08, 2012 03:08 PM (uTBHY)

192 Then the recession collapse comes. We will be in full recession collapse by July 2013.


FIFY

Posted by: EC at November 08, 2012 03:08 PM (GQ8sn)

193 Don't misunderstand me. I don't blame the RNC for
Akin's stupid shit. I just say they need to conduct some schools for
candidates. But first they need to hire some people who know how to
campaign and talk to the MFM.


Posted by: Vic at November 08, 2012 03:04 PM (YdQQY)
What kind of school could fix someone that blind? I suspect the Akin and Murdoch comments not only killed them, they went a long way towards killing the rest of us too.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 03:08 PM (R9579)

194 What if Shep Smith and Geraldo Rivera took turns spitting impotent rage and bawling their eyes out while standing on the Brooklyn Bridge after "Sandy"?

That wouldn't be a 'black swan'. It would be a 'magenta platypus'.

I keep thinking about that prof in Cali that ran the numbers and concluded the media bias accounts for 3-5% (iirc) of any Democrats percentage of the vote.

And now, I'm going to go back to spitting impotent rage and furiously flipping off Shep Smith.

Posted by: CozMark at November 08, 2012 03:08 PM (P0AbR)

195 Apparently, Iran fired on one of our drones outside of Iranian air space. Right before an election. And we're just hearing about it today. Funny that.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 08, 2012 03:08 PM (moRRg)

196
The reality will be very crappy.

So you think it will be worse or the same as now?

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 08, 2012 03:09 PM (jUytm)

197 I think the Dems also think the storm and the fat man made the difference. Matthews isn't exactly an original thinker.

Posted by: USA at November 08, 2012 03:09 PM (RIg+t)

198 Stolen from another blog:

"With our electoral college system, it is too simplistic to look at the national voting demographics and credit Obama's victory to Hispanic voters.

The swing state exit polls do not reflect a statistical shift or that influence in every swing state.

Consider, Ohio: White 79%, Hispanic 3%; Iowa: White 93%, Hispanic 2%; Virginia: White 70%, Hispanic 5%; North Carolina: White 70%, Hispanic 4%.

It is true in states like Florida where the split was White 67%, Hispanic 17%, but Romney also did better with Hispanics in Florida losing 60-39.
It seems a large amount of the national shift in Hispanic vote can be traced to the southwest, particularly California, which Republicans are not going to win in the near future. California: White 55%, Hispanic 23%. Or Arizona, which was 74% White, 18% Hispanic.

In reviewing the exit polls by state, the real reasons Obama won are he consistently took the female vote and women turned out +10% in some states. And he consistently took the vote of those making less than $50,000 family income."

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 08, 2012 03:09 PM (06lNq)

199
I like corn.

Posted by: Independent Voter at November 08, 2012 03:09 PM (zpqa2)

200 Dumb ass, low-information voters and the perfidious fat-assed Christie fucked this country on Tuesday.

Posted by: ph2ll at November 08, 2012 03:10 PM (lNbwG)

201 One big reason for the canidates we have is they must survive the crucible that is the nominating process. The Socons have tests, Ficons have them and the Hawks have them and the problem is that some of these litmus tests for each group are mutually exclusive, and worse some are downright toxic to the public at large.

We need to learn the art of lying while campaigning and governing more conservative once safely in office.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 08, 2012 03:10 PM (t06LC)

202 Well, if we are gonna have Oprah politics, can we just go ahead and elect Oprah? Cause, I want some free shit.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 08, 2012 03:10 PM (OWjjx)

203 What we think is their best interest is not what they think is their best interest.

Thank you Captain Obvious, you saved us.

Posted by: entropy at November 08, 2012 03:10 PM (TULs6)

204 But in exit polls, he lost the leadership question. Why?

Lost the leadership question? To a guy who is the most inept retard to ever come within 50 miles of the White House - a total failure at everything, including 8th grade math and 10th grade English.

There is no explanation for this other than the insanity of the population polled. Truly. It doesn't matter what shit they come up with since this is just so divorced from reality, on its face, that one should do nothing but laugh in their faces at any attempt to justify this reasoning.

Yes. The American population is this monumentally stupid - in addition to being set against the very existence of our nation, and Western civilization, by many (usually the dumbest of the lot) just looking to exact some retarded third world revenge on us.

It is time to start anew. The Constitutional Union of America States awaits. And the retards and everyone who voted for this miserable piece of Indonesian shit (or any democrat America-hater) is not allowed. Fuck them. They can stew and drown in their American Socialist Superstate.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 08, 2012 03:10 PM (X3lox)

205 they actually already do. And most state organizations have weekend schools for campaigns to come and get information.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 08, 2012 03:06 PM (OWjjx)

Obviously MO doesn't or Akin slept through the don't get your dick caught in your mouth class.

Posted by: Vic at November 08, 2012 03:10 PM (YdQQY)

206 Don't forget to count the damage that could have
been inflicted on a the sitting president if the national media had
chosen to cover Sandy like Katrina. Challenger was up going into the
storm, would have been up by alot more coming out.


Posted by: forest at November 08, 2012 03:05 PM (7RBBe)

It keeps coming back to this. Had this been George Bush's election, the media would have spent six months talking about unemployment and how bad the gas prices were.
We need to undermine the media and the companies they work for at every opportunity. Perhaps we need to boost PJMedia into a real contender?

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 03:10 PM (R9579)

207 The rape question trap will be part of the Dems/Media playbook from now on. Any Rep. candidate better know how to deal with this or become an Akin Mourdock.

In 2016 we better do something about debate moderators as well. Don't know who both sides would agree on, but it is obvious we are getting shafted.

No matter if our candidate goes on the View, late night shows, etc. and tries to be more hip, these leftie show hosts will lambast our guy, while asking fluff questions to the Dem. Look what happened to Ann Romney when she went on the view. Barky got a BJ.

Posted by: Redman Bluestate at November 08, 2012 03:10 PM (sRIFP)

208 [i/]Many millions of people saw long lines and said "not worth the trouble".

A commenter in the last thread posted info that showed most of the GOP vote dropoff was in states like Texas and California, where it didn't matter, not in the swing states.

Posted by: CJ at November 08, 2012 03:10 PM (9KqcB)

209 and so then you have to ask, why God? why?

Posted by: California Red at November 08, 2012 03:10 PM (icSBv)

210 >>I believe some of the "undervote" in those big states is due to the fact they didn't bother counting all the votes.

Perhaps, ace. But if non-counting is a factor, then the "3 million undervote" claim is very inflated. And I think it somewhat puts to rest the notion that millions of Republicans stayed home for substantive reasons (didn't like Romney, thought he wasn't conservative enough, etc.), and instead stayed home because they knew their vote was not relevant or unneeded.

Posted by: angler at November 08, 2012 03:10 PM (SwjAj)

211 Well, if you accept that line of reasoning, nothing I write will convince you otherwise.

It's not about convincing us. It's about convincing them.

We "True Conservatives" have been told over and over and over that we have to compromise on issues to appeal to moderates. This isn't even that. It's compromising on messaging.

You don't lead with your flaws, you lead with your strengths. Tax cuts are a flaw, from a messaging standpoint.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) All Dead Inside at November 08, 2012 03:11 PM (/eBe8)

212 Ah..... my Storm had the proper effect.... but do you know how HARD it was to fulfill Both Terms for that Contract?

Posted by: Satan at November 08, 2012 03:11 PM (lZBBB)

213 It is apparent we are still under the radar of the people's delusion there are still laws in the US by which us egalitarian communitarians must abide. Heh, fairness makes it own laws.

Posted by: Harrison J. Bounel on the Down Low at November 08, 2012 03:11 PM (C34KJ)

214 132 Careful, now, they'll call you a truther!

Posted by: separate at November 08, 2012 03:11 PM (JWT7J)

215 So you think it will be worse or the same as now?

The first half of the year will be somewhat worse than now, since the tax rates will go back up. The second half will be much worse as businesses set up for the effects of full ObamaCare.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 08, 2012 03:11 PM (evdj2)

216 Any conservatives that stayed home because Romney wasn't conservative enough for them can fuck right off.

Posted by: holygoat at November 08, 2012 03:12 PM (XnwWl)

217 Free Shit and Feeling Good. That's what they believe is their best interest.
Posted by: HeatherRadish, Crankypants at November 08, 2012 03:06 PM (/kI1Q)


---------------------------------------------------


Yes. And to add; free shit and feeling good is a "right".

Posted by: Soona at November 08, 2012 03:12 PM (MvRmr)

218 So you think it will be worse or the same as now?

Worse. At some point the cheap money ends. And interest rates shoot up and inflation kicks in. And Iran and Isreal decide to finish business and oil prices go up (remember, gas was declining right up to the election).

The administration can continue to play with the unemployment rate but the reality is worse than what the BLS says.


Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 08, 2012 03:12 PM (OWjjx)

219 I think it's clear that Sandy at least played a part in what's looking like a last minute come-from-behind win by Obama. Virginia and Colorado went for Obama by a little over 100,000 votes. Wisconsin twice that amount. Florida only half that amount. We're talking about an election decided by less than half a million votes in those 4 key swing states. The hurricane and Obama's perceived handling of its aftermath may not have single-handedly given him the election, but it may have been the biggest factor in saving his ass.

Posted by: Adam_ME at November 08, 2012 03:12 PM (J+jRf)

220 I hear ya Alextc. The Mon before last Christmas a last 1 one second stomp on my gas pedal is what kept an idiot from creaming me in my drivers door instead of his left front hitting right behind my left rear. He was gonna run a red light in the rain, doing about 50, and didn't see coming.
Slower reaction on my part, bye bye teej.

Posted by: teej says go K-State at November 08, 2012 03:12 PM (K4AdI)

221 Shorter version of this post: 52% of American people are stupid.

Thanks, Dept. of Education.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 08, 2012 03:12 PM (UOM48)

222 208 and observation on the ground in Ohio was the republican turnout was very high. turnout in republican precincts along the line of 80%.

Posted by: separate at November 08, 2012 03:13 PM (JWT7J)

223 You will all be rifd-chipped, ACA of 2010 by the end of March 2013.

Posted by: Harrison J. Bounel on the Down Low at November 08, 2012 03:13 PM (C34KJ)

224 For the record the Republican under-vote is 2 million, not 3. More votes have trickled in.

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 08, 2012 03:13 PM (UypUQ)

225 Hurricane Sandy and Free Shit.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 08, 2012 02:44 PM (UOM4


But, mostlyFREE SHIT.

Posted by: Ronster at November 08, 2012 03:13 PM (nQMHQ)

226 I think David French hit the nail on the head:

To tens of millions of American voters, a conservative message of
self-reliance and individual economic freedom is, quite frankly,
terrifying.

Mommies for commies won this election for Barack.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 08, 2012 03:13 PM (Hx5uv)

227
Chris Christi lip-locking with Obama will go down in history as his Pelosi-Newt couch moment. Christi screwed himself by praising Obama when it was nothing more than a photo-op.

Posted by: Doctor Fish at November 08, 2012 03:13 PM (lDWQr)

228
And here you thought there could never be anyone more annoying and know-it-allthan Jeff B.!

Posted by: Hectora at November 08, 2012 03:13 PM (ggRof)

229 Pish posh. Attributing bad luck and circumstance as reasons for failure are the sign of a petty and diseased intellect. A true warrior is not afraid to examine his weaknesses, and is therefore strengthened by a transient defeat.

Posted by: Xavier at November 08, 2012 03:13 PM (tqAdU)

230 A niece said she voted for Obama. I asked why. She voted with her lady
parts. She's a product of the vaunted Iowa educational system.


Lol, fucking lol. So am I. I got about a third-grade education in 10 years there and the kid I sat next to at graduation couldn't read the diploma (but he was real good at football).

I really fucking hate Iowa.

Posted by: HeatherRadish, Crankypants at November 08, 2012 03:13 PM (/kI1Q)

231 The obvious: Hate and fear work as motivators.

The stupid: There's a lot of shit people will believe uncritically, including some amazingly ridiculous shit indeed.

Posted by: joncelli at November 08, 2012 03:13 PM (RD7QR)

232 Any strategy that relies on voter education, especially done by the GOP, well, let's just say we can start writing the 2016 post-mortem AoS comments right now I imagine.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 08, 2012 03:14 PM (zpqa2)

233 157 You mean photo op didn't fix everything. I'm sure the public housing crowd all voted for Barry and now that he doesn't need publicity of pretending to care they can freeze and starve for all he cares.
Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 08, 2012 03:03 PM (1Jaio)

I'd say, send in a conservative to go there and tell them this is what you get for voting Democrat for 50 years and believing that you are victims of white Republicans. But he'd get mugged.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 08, 2012 03:14 PM (vCK/R)

234
I'm trying to be objective as possible.

I truly see no reason why the economy would improve. We're not doing anything different to make it improve.

The Fed's last action was, what, QE3, QE3.5, or some such shit?

That, at best, is a band aid.

Posted by: Soothsayer at November 08, 2012 03:14 PM (jUytm)

235 Bottom line. If a Rep. was president and had a record of failure like Barky, the corrupt media would have been all over them.

The corrupt media would have had Benghazi on every front page and newscast 24/7. They would be pushing Impeachment.

Double standard and bias for sure, and something Im not sure we will ever be able to overcome.

Posted by: Redman Bluestate at November 08, 2012 03:14 PM (sRIFP)

236 Fuck it all. Seriously, how are we supposed to function with people like that having an ever increasing role in our lives?

Posted by: Aaron at November 08, 2012 03:14 PM (Tlix5)

237 In 2016 we better do something about debate moderators as well. Don't know who both sides would agree on, but it is obvious we are getting shafted.

Ryan Seacreast......he can keep it simple for the low information voter.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 08, 2012 03:14 PM (OWjjx)

238 Lets face it, when not an insignificant number of voters believed Romney was going to ban contraception and tampons, our nation has issues.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 08, 2012 03:14 PM (4cRnj)

239
Hurricane Sandy and Free Shit.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 08, 2012 02:44 PM (UOM4

After Sandy there was plenty of free shit in the stores. You just had to go in and pick it out.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 08, 2012 03:14 PM (Hx5uv)

240 We will be in full recession by July 2013.

If the Bush tax cuts aren't continued we'll be in full scale depression by March 2013. There is no 'margin for error' in the economy we are in now. Fine, you all want it to burn, I guarantee you raising taxes on those who work and pay taxes, then suddenly have every penny of their disposable income taken from them will 'bring it'.

Remember; a recession is when your neighbor loses his job, a depression is when you lose yours.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 08, 2012 03:14 PM (feFL6)

241 Not only should have we won, it shouldn't have been close.



Posted by: burned cut-loop at November 08, 2012 03:07 PM (SX6wc)

And this is true. Again, it is the media that has so badly misinformed, and failed to inform the public. Remember the second debate? Even when Romney was correct, the media painted him as incorrect.
The time for civility is over. If I ever see a media persona, i'm going to see how many times I can punch them in the mouth.




Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 03:14 PM (R9579)

242 If we are accepting the polling as accuration, WTF is up with the Rasmussen Partisan ID number for October that showed that the electorate was R+6. That is a survey of 15,000 people with a 1% margin of error.

And election day is a freaking D+6 turnout?

Posted by: Stirner at November 08, 2012 03:14 PM (Ytuz8)

243
After considerable soul searching, I have decided that for my own peace of mind, I will no longer follow politics nor will I visit my usual sites such as this one after today. Trust me, I hardly think so highly of myself that my absence will even be noted, but I did want to say thank you to those of you fellow conservatives whose thoughtful and witty posts have been both inspirational and uplifting.
I just know that for myself, I cannot look at another picture of Obama or Axelrod or Reid or Pelosi or Holder or anyone from that administration or read about their latest assault on liberty without harboring evil, hateful thoughts which do nothing to them, but which cause great damage to me and those around me who have suffered the consequences of my anger. That has to stop.
So, I bid you the fondest of farewells – the best outcome for each of you in these challenging times and my prayers for your well being. God bless you all –

Posted by: Natasha at November 08, 2012 03:14 PM (jU5uf)

244 I think people are averse to crediting so much to chance and chaos.

Retardation was a greater influence than chance or chaos.

Embrace idiocracy.

Posted by: Scobface, Staying Positive at November 08, 2012 03:15 PM (IoNBC)

245 Ugh.

Assuming a minimum of 7% voter growth election over election as we have had the last 4 elections, there should have been 23 million more voters this year than we had.

We have about 9 million white voters that simply disappeared.

Was there a single election model which predicted HORRIBLE Republican turnout? With enthusiasm through the roof, huge crowds following Romney wherever he went, massive lines in Republican Districts on election and and RV up 15%, did ANYONE predict millions and millions of Republicans would not vote?

WHO THE HELL WERE THOSE PEOPLE STANDING IN LINES FOR HOURS?

People, this was widespread systemic and carefully engineered tabulation fraud. You want to know why the far left media were constantly popping out D+7 polls? They were in on it. They were the cover.

Apparently rural white voters who DESPISE Obama simply did not vote.

Bullshit.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 08, 2012 03:15 PM (hlUJY)

246 24 What?! I asked her if she ever once heard Romney say any of that. She hadn't, she just "heard about it"...

And you still count her as a friend? Much less a "close" one?

Posted by: rickb223 (I am John Galt) at November 08, 2012 03:15 PM (GFM2b)

247 Romney paid a price for the fact that Boehner didn't shut the government down during the debt deal... it was done every other month during Reagan... and it sounds like a lot of fiscal cons decided to keep protesting the GOP

Posted by: phreshone at November 08, 2012 03:15 PM (MAhUT)

248 This goes back to my theory of the electorate being unserious. They select unserious politicians for unserious reasons. We all think that gravitas and statesmanship and all that is important, but we live in Hipster nation now.

Posted by: Golan Globus at November 08, 2012 03:15 PM (NuQ2+)

249 Yeah, I did. What's your point? Obama voters see
this stuff as tax cuts for the rich. Where are you going to get the $ to
make up for the $ the rich aren't paying? That's what's not dealt with.
Very few in the GOP can explain economics, which isn't surprising given
the visibility of those who don't even know how vaginas work.


Posted by: SFGoth at November 08, 2012 02:57 PM (dZ756)


First off, you're stupid.

Second, when did Romney earn $250 million a year?

Posted by: © Sponge at November 08, 2012 03:15 PM (UK9cE)

250 There are emotional types that get glued and riveted by OJ trial, Jon Bennet Ramsy, ect... Many people most likely stayed up watching coverage (many out of true concern for friends and relatives) of Sandy and they themselves felt fatigued, scared and vulnerable. Being fatigued, worried and vulnerable made them more susceptible to being saps for Preezy's photo ops.

Posted by: Deli LLama at November 08, 2012 03:15 PM (lGu1O)

251 @ 226

"To tens of millions of American voters, a conservative message of

self-reliance and individual economic freedom is, quite frankly,

terrifying."

THIS

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 08, 2012 03:15 PM (zpqa2)

252 >>222 208 and observation on the ground in Ohio was the republican turnout
was very high. turnout in republican precincts along the line of 80%.

Republicans didn't stay home in Ohio. In 2008, McCain got 2,501,855 votes there. In 2012, Romney got 2,593,787 - an increase of 91,932.

Posted by: angler at November 08, 2012 03:16 PM (SwjAj)

253 I guess we didn't survive Jimmy Carter after all.

Posted by: SFGoth at November 08, 2012 03:16 PM (dZ756)

254 I'd say, send in a conservative to go there and tell them this is what you get for voting Democrat for 50 years and believing that you are victims of white Republicans. But he'd get mugged.

It won't work. About 6 years ago, I volunteered to try to do voter out reach in East St. Louis. We explained to voter after voter that they have had 1 party rule for ever and look where it got them. The average response" "yea, but Republicans only care about rich people."

Forget it. Chicago land rules -- punish your enemies, reward your friends.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at November 08, 2012 03:16 PM (OWjjx)

255 I don't think I've mentioned recently how much I loathe Sheppy Smith.

Why isn't he standing in the middle of Staten Island crying about the raped babies and cannibalism?

He's a smug ass now that his Dear Leader has been re-elected.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 08, 2012 03:16 PM (UOM48)

256 To me, it is incomprehensible that your vote a week before the election is a toss-up between Barack Obama and Mitt Romney. Just mark me down as dumb-founded, I hope you guys figure it out.

Posted by: t-bird at November 08, 2012 03:17 PM (FcR7P)

257 Mommies for commies won this election for Barack.

Eh. Women who are terrified they might one day become mommies, but can't be bothered to demand men wear condoms or give up one mani-pedi a month to pay for pills.

Posted by: HeatherRadish, Crankypants at November 08, 2012 03:17 PM (/kI1Q)

258 I give the libs one thing, they know Obama has thier back on the things which should not be said that they want, (and this is the crazy part) they don't make them say it to the public! Fucking nuts right?

Meanwhile we have the 700 Club or whatever have our canidates on and promise that abortion is wrong forever and never acceptable, and fear of reprecussion is why these senate canidates said what they said. Trying to thread the needle. We need to learn the secret wink.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 08, 2012 03:17 PM (t06LC)

259 Obama went where the Hipsters go; MTV, the View, Comedy Central. Mitt stayed away from those venues. The GOP needs to figure out that they already have people like us in their pocket. They need to go after the dumb fucks that get their news from the Daily Show. That's where the votes are now.

Posted by: Dax at November 08, 2012 03:18 PM (gUYGX)

260 In the end it really doesn't matter what the reasons are, Obama has a second term.

If you think he is going to have a come to muhammad moment ala slick willy and govern like a centrist and work with the House your deluded.

He is a Chicago machine thug he has only one setting, steam roll your enemies.

When the bad shit happens as it most certainly will, he will blame Republicans.

As someone on another thread said, let them have what they want.

Higher taxes, sure no problem.

Catholic institutions having to pay for birth control and abortions, here you go.

Let them have what they want.

Let them own the collapse.

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 08, 2012 03:18 PM (06lNq)

261 You're right on it ace.

Just when they started paying attention to the election they saw President Bomber Jacket bear hug a "partisan" Republican governor during a natural disaster.

Vote...........sealed.

Doom.......assured.

Posted by: America Fuck Yeah! at November 08, 2012 03:18 PM (gC30A)

262 I think it may have been Obama's support of OWS. OWS was actually a test run for Sandy.

Posted by: Fritz at November 08, 2012 03:18 PM (/ZZCn)

263 The storm was only one of many factors. Also, fuck Chris Christie, the Crisco-sweating Judas.

Posted by: Motorhead at November 08, 2012 03:18 PM (fT6pk)

264 Go ahead and blame a few million votes on whatever makes you feel better. But blame tens of millions on reality. That's the real problem.

Election should not have been close in a sane world.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 08, 2012 03:19 PM (zpqa2)

265 ALWAYS wait until the immediate effects of a loss (or victory) have worn
off before you start drawing conclusions and acting on them. ALWAYS.

---

This is probably good advice but let's not kid ourselves. This was a disaster of Biblical proportions that will negatively affect the country for decades even if anything vaguely resembling constitutional government exists four years from now.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 08, 2012 03:19 PM (Hx5uv)

266 259 Obama went where the Hipsters go; MTV, the View, Comedy Central. Mitt stayed away from those venues. The GOP needs to figure out that they already have people like us in their pocket. They need to go after the dumb fucks that get their news from the Daily Show. That's where the votes are now.


Yes, and they need to have the balls to stand up for themselves and not whither from the gotcha questions that are sure to come.

Posted by: Redman Bluestate at November 08, 2012 03:19 PM (sRIFP)

267 How does a storm hitting NJ and NY and other northeast states (which are already heavily blue) affect voting results in the mid-west where it really counted?

Someone explain this to me.

Posted by: EC at November 08, 2012 03:20 PM (GQ8sn)

268 "Let them own the collapse."

Yeah, we'll totally win that post collapse election!

Posted by: Aaron at November 08, 2012 03:20 PM (Tlix5)

269 Leon Panetta is stepping down for this term.

Perfect fit for Van Jones.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 08, 2012 03:20 PM (UOM48)

270
The black swan event of Sandy, and the press coverage, is indeed a highly likely final cause of whywe lost the popular vote.

A week earlier, we would probably have won the popular vote - AND lost the election.

We need to look at the declines in turnout and ask ourselves what we did wrong, or what we didn't do, to persuade people that it was important to vote - as important to them and their lives as 2008.

And, we need to look at the OfA machine and realize that, two elections in a row, it has really tilted the playing field against us. In 2008, we would have needed to beat Obama by nearly 2% of the popular vote to win the electoral vote - this year, we would have needed to beat Obama by about 2.3% of the popular vote to win the electoral vote (by picking up Colorado, which was also 2008's tipping point state). Look at the astonishing number of statesObama carried by5-8 % while only winning the national popular vote by 2.4%. We are going to have to develop comparable skills and get back towardsour traditional share of the vote in the 12 or so target states...and realize just how much Obama's tilt of government spending and attention to these states has hurt us...

Posted by: Frederick Stephan at November 08, 2012 03:20 PM (cc7il)

271 All this analysis is interesting, but keeps looping back to the same thing. The US is now peopled with a majority that is looting scum. The old WASP culture is dead. The flywheel loses momentum every day and we've lost the culture war. It's over. The men of last three generations of my family fought for a land that has betrayed them, spits on their values, and has squandered their achievements. I invite all conservatives to join me in stripping off all the wealth than can be wrung out of this place and then leaving. If i must live in a degenerate shit hole, i don't want to feel any love for it.

Posted by: Reactionary at November 08, 2012 03:20 PM (XLVr/)

272 If you don't blame it on Republicans being white they'll kick you out of the kewl club, silly racist.

Posted by: booger at November 08, 2012 03:21 PM (HI6wa)

273 If true, Christie should be shot dead ASAP.

Posted by: Chris R at November 08, 2012 03:21 PM (qP4e9)

274 Christie fucked up. All I had was a radio for days after the storm, and just the few quotes I heard from christie on local jersey news had me litterally on my feet screaming "Are you out of your fucking mind??"

He said obama was showing leadership and he he appreciates true leadership like this.

I was stunned. I heard this shit in real time and could not believe it. All he had to say was the government pledges their support and left it at that.

He had obama over a frigging barrel. With his big mouth and the media attention on the coast focusing on him he could have squeeeeezed obama like a walnut. Yo barak, send the funds or I'll roast your ass on TV

Nope, goes right for polishing obama's knob.

The there was the frigging springsteen episode.

He should have known obama was going to use him as a photo op, and should have worked to diminish it. Yeah, his pre storm planing probably saved my house, but dude fucking grow a pair you groveling retard.

I thought we had a tough guy, and we got baby fucking huey.


Posted by: Berserker at November 08, 2012 03:21 PM (FMbng)

275 Yeah, we'll totally win that post collapse election!

We're not expecting elections after a certain point.

Posted by: EC at November 08, 2012 03:21 PM (GQ8sn)

276 I guess we didn't survive Jimmy Carter after all.

He only had four years.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 08, 2012 03:21 PM (evdj2)

277 I refuse to believe that people are that stupid and shallow. I think shenanigans are a more likely reason.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at November 08, 2012 03:22 PM (FZnrK)

278 Pish posh. Attributing bad luck and circumstance as
reasons for failure are the sign of a petty and diseased intellect. A
true warrior is not afraid to examine his weaknesses, and is therefore
strengthened by a transient defeat.


Posted by: Xavier at November 08, 2012 03:13 PM (tqAdU)

This is not a transient defeat. This is a Stop bailing and start fighting for life boats defeat. Obama did massive damage in the first term. He now has even less inhibition.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 03:22 PM (R9579)

279 Election should not have been close in a sane world.

---

I remember that H.G. Wells (a Goddamn Fabian but that doesn't mean he was always wrong) ascribed the fall of the Roman Empire to the fact that they just didn't care enough to keep it going. Same us.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 08, 2012 03:22 PM (Hx5uv)

280 #267: Occam's Razor. Because the people who are not in the hurricane are watching the drama on tv and are watching the president act all presidential. Those people that Ace was talking about.



Posted by: Mikey NTH - What a Relief at November 08, 2012 03:22 PM (hLRSq)

281 Any strategy that relies on voter education, especially done by the GOP, well, let's just say we can start writing the 2016 post-mortem AoS comments right now I imagine.
Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 08, 2012 03:14 PM (zpqa2)


------------------------------------------------


Yeah. People are obviously satisfied with being stupid.......but really cool.

Posted by: Soona at November 08, 2012 03:22 PM (MvRmr)

282 The dems are not the party of the working man they are the party of the idler.

Posted by: g.w. mclintock at November 08, 2012 03:22 PM (qwUGR)

283
The abortion argument is the same as the economic argument, that's why conservatives lost both.

Abortionis about ONE THING ONLY.

Convenience.

And everything in American life is now seen through the lens of convenience. We are soft and lazy from years of having it easy.

Posted by: Meremortal at November 08, 2012 03:22 PM (1Y+hH)

284 I invite all conservatives to join me in stripping off all the wealth than can be wrung out of this place and then leaving.

That brings me to my question a few threads back:

Where the hell do you go?!?!

There is nowhere to go. Those fucking leechers are everywhere, they are baked into our society like raisins in a cake.

Posted by: EC at November 08, 2012 03:23 PM (GQ8sn)

285 Yeah, we'll totally win that post collapse election!

---

And we'll be voting with rocks and clubs.

Posted by: WalrusRex at November 08, 2012 03:23 PM (Hx5uv)

286
I guess we didn't survive Jimmy Carter after all.Posted by: SFGoth


And Mommy and Daddy will live forevah!

Posted by: burned cut-loop at November 08, 2012 03:24 PM (SX6wc)

287 Let's not forget our little friend Johnny Roberts. If he would have killed Ocare, we might have been better able to weather this storm coming.

Posted by: Soona at November 08, 2012 03:24 PM (MvRmr)

288 You appear to be harshing on the Fat Man.

Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at November 08, 2012 03:24 PM (qwK3S)

289 "I refuse to believe that people are that stupid and shallow."

I refuse to believe most people are otherwise.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - What a Relief at November 08, 2012 03:24 PM (hLRSq)

290 Seriously though, i really do think this was a social issues election and the sad fact is the people who didn't feel the bad economy, like the youth (or whatever we're calling them) voted for their idiotic politically correct causes instead of the economy because they just don't feel the impact of the economy.

Posted by: booger at November 08, 2012 03:24 PM (HI6wa)

291 "
ALWAYS wait until the immediate effects of a loss (or victory) have worn

off before you start drawing conclusions and acting on them. ALWAYS."

I would say that is correct most of the time but not this time due to the fact that it should not have been close. So we wait for a final analysis to tell us the specifics, then what?

We're still left with tens of millions of people who voted for the worst president in history under the worst circumstances because they felt he empathized with them. That we already know.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 08, 2012 03:24 PM (zpqa2)

292 Obvious: Mitt Romney is a chameleon who changed his views depending on who he was talking to
Simple: Americans tired of rich and powerful cheating
Obvious: Republicans don't get that genetic and historical heritage should not determine who gets all the goodies.

Posted by: walter at November 08, 2012 03:25 PM (7wWIO)

293 Christie got played by Obama.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 08, 2012 03:25 PM (4cRnj)

294
Sandy didn't help Obama. The coverage of Sandy did. Obama hasn't done any better with Sandy than Bush did with Katrina. But you wouldn't know it to see the reporting. In reality, Obama has personally done less to help the Sandy victims than Bush did to help the Katrina victims.

Posted by: SpasticToad at November 08, 2012 03:25 PM (Zewfw)

295 >>>But 90% of the workings of the world are, in fact, obvious and stupid.

I know our theological views differ so I will at first discuss the issue with your theology.

If a weather event and a few photos can so dramatically change the outcome of the election, their are still big questions that have to be asked and assumptions and core beliefs that have to be ruthlessly questioned before we brush this aside as a piece of bad luck.

1. Is it acceptable in a free self governing society that a serious weather event coupled with a few well framed photos swing the balance of an election toward a demonstrated incompetent. I really think the answer to that question is no. It never should have been so close that a storm changed the balance.

2. Then are we really capable right now of representative of self government using a democratic process? Harder question, I don't know a good answer yet.

3. If we aren't capable of self government right now, can we become capable of it, and if so how do we do so?

4. If we are incapable of becoming capable of self government what do we do then?


Now from my theological perspective.
1. God sent that storm why did he do it?
a. Presumably to alter the outcome of the election from the trajectory it was on.

2. God could have been a little less obvious about it. If his plan was to maintain the status quo why did he choose to keep the status quo this way instead of, say, just giving us a lousy candidate or just letting us lose outright?
a. Oooooh. Tougher.
Presumably he wanted us to know unquestioningly he did it.
And
We needed to be winning or feel like we were winning for a while so that we could learn something.

3. why and what?
This is where we get way into the weeds.
a, Hopefully, so we know he hasn't abandoned us and that his plan is still in motion even if it isn't what we wanted or thought we needed.

b. To show us how our successes have been built on a house of cards that we thought was a foundation of granite. To lay bare the real issues of the fickleness and fecklessness that plague the American Electorate, wherein luck, good media imaging, and slick sound bites are far more important than, competency, virtue, good arguments and a good plan.

4. This leads us back to the very same questions as we would ask if God didn't exist. So it works well both ways. Cool. Almost like it was.....planned that way.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 08, 2012 03:25 PM (0q2P7)

296 Romney lost because he had the temerity to ask for supplies and not money for the victims. The robotic evil bastard.
Is this thing on?

Posted by: Andrea Mitchell at November 08, 2012 03:25 PM (YmPwQ)

297 It's time to split the sheets with DC, people. Start over.

Posted by: Soona at November 08, 2012 03:25 PM (MvRmr)

298 Posted this in the other thread, but it died right around then so......

269 One thing I've never understood: the GOP should make school choice one of its featured issues. I mean, front and center, all the time, and make the focus how union-run public schools harm poor black students. School choice is one issue that the Dems hold a losing hand when it comes to minorities. They are too deeply reliant on the NEA to ever give ground. Get ahead of the Donks on marijuana decriminalization and beat them over the head with it. We're the uptight old fogies now, but some of that label can be stuck on them as the mean old guys who want to keep weed illegal. Make sentencingreform for drug convictionsa corollary issue. You know who loves them some huge incarceration rates? Prison guard unions, who are yet another public employee union pouring millions into the Dems' pockets. End the drug war, reduce prison populations and cut all that money spent on all that. And one other thing that I've thought the GOP should embrace ever since they got killed for this shit in 2006 - make the GOP brand one of anti-corruption.Make corruption a capital offense within the party andtake a stand against crony capitalism. Illustrate to people how "big business" does not equal "the free market". Be seen as the party that's fighting for the little guy, the small business owner, rather than Wall Street. There are ways to use populist sentiment without being socialist or anticapitalist.
Posted by: radar at November 08, 2012 02:55 PM (zmlwq)

Posted by: radar at November 08, 2012 03:26 PM (zmlwq)

299 I refuse to believe that people are that stupid and shallow. I think shenanigans are a more likely reason.

Hate to break it to you, but they are and have been for quite a long time.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 08, 2012 03:26 PM (SY2Kh)

300 If I was a business owner, anyone who worked for me that I knew was a lib would have lost their job yesterday.
Sorry, I can't afford to keep you with all the money barky's second term is gonna cost me is the reason they would have heard for letting them go.

Posted by: teej says go K-State at November 08, 2012 03:26 PM (BfZ1r)

301 @248

Linda McMann was beaten by a man that has been a serial scofflaw.

Alan West was beaten by a man that was arrested for drunken disorderly conduct outside of a bar.

Scott Brown who is perhaps as liberal as you can be and still call yourself a republican, was beat by an out and out liar and marxist.

Jesse Jackson Jr. was reelected while he was in rehab for substance abuse.

And apparently we lost because of binders, big bird and a non-existent war on women.

Yeah, we are an unserious nation!

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 08, 2012 03:26 PM (06lNq)

302 Clean up aisle #273

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 08, 2012 03:26 PM (feFL6)

303 >>What if the whole election was swung by a random Black Swan event which
had nothing to do with anything that was being debated throughout the
past two years?<<

If this turns out to be the case, your boy Christie's fat ass should be boiled for the oil that the blubber would produce so people without power on the East Coast can heat and light their homes with it. Then the damn leftover carcass should be hung from a conveniently located lamp post so people can walk by and spit on it. Not that I'd advocate anyone actually going out and doing that, of course. Be a helluva lot of fun to watch on TV though.

Posted by: davidinvirginia at November 08, 2012 03:26 PM (qEkGZ)

304 Another effect- how many independents after the first debate saw Obama and thought Romney was more prepared and could do better and were going to vote and after seeing Obama being all presidential thought maybe things were allright after all and didn't vote?

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 08, 2012 03:26 PM (t06LC)

305
...I have decided that for my own peace of mind, I will no longer follow politics nor will I visit my usual sites such as this one after today...
Natasha at November 08, 2012 03:14 PM




I know how you feel and now is as good a time as any to take a break from it all. I've been watching politics, volunteering, campaigning, and voting for 40 years. But therewere times when I left it for a while...happiest times of my life. Sounds good right about now.

Posted by: Deanna at November 08, 2012 03:26 PM (+npP4)

306 Christi screwed himself by praising Obama when it was nothing more than a photo-op.

It will help him get re-elected. That's all he was thinking about.

Posted by: CJ at November 08, 2012 03:27 PM (9KqcB)

307 McCain OH 2008 - 2,677,820

Romney OH 2012 - 2,593,789

Repubs lost ground in OH.

Source CNN Election results 2012 and Wiki 2008.

Posted by: Vic at November 08, 2012 03:27 PM (YdQQY)

308 Let them own the collapse.



Posted by: General Woundwort at November 08, 2012 03:18 PM (06lNq)

No, let us help them bring it faster. Let us light backfires and drive the flames towards them.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 03:27 PM (R9579)

309 Republicans don't get that genetic and historical heritage should not determine who gets all the goodies.

Odd coming from the party of affirmative action and reparations but, whatever, commie rat bastard.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 08, 2012 03:27 PM (evdj2)

310 Posted by: EC at November 08, 2012 03:23 PM (GQ8sn


Yes, I can't figure out where to go that won't be as bad or worse, and I can't figure out how to get my assets offshore without excessive IRS penalties. Of course the IRS looting now might still be better than the IRS looting that will inevitably occur in the next four years (and probably forever).

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 08, 2012 03:28 PM (Cnqmv)

311 Not just clean up #273, post the fuckers IP - I'd bet it's from some
left wing Wisconsin college.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 08, 2012 03:28 PM (feFL6)

312 @ #301...West hasn't conceded yet and if demanding/suing for a recount. Just got a mailer from him campaign on that.

Posted by: davidinvirginia at November 08, 2012 03:28 PM (qEkGZ)

313 If a storm is all it takes to swing an election we're even more fucked than we thought. It doesn't change anything. A misinformed, dumb, immoral populace will eventually surrender it's freedom. That is what is happening.

Posted by: Ken Royall at November 08, 2012 03:29 PM (x0g8a)

314 no, it won't help Christie get re-elected. Lefties will chuckle at the fat man's pathetic pandering as they line up to vote for whatever lefty clown gets the Dem nomination.

Posted by: radar at November 08, 2012 03:29 PM (zmlwq)

315 We can now find out what would have happened if Carter had beat Reagan! Ooh boy!

276
I guess we didn't survive Jimmy Carter after all.



He only had four years.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 08, 2012 03:21 PM (evdj2)

Posted by: Pyrocles at November 08, 2012 03:29 PM (cv5Iw)

316
Republicans don't get that genetic and historical heritage should not determine who gets all the goodies.


Posted by: walter at November 08, 2012 03:25 PM (7wWIO)

Sure Walter, the division of assets by taking from the makers and giving to the takers is the liberal answer. Asshole!

Posted by: Doctor Fish at November 08, 2012 03:29 PM (lDWQr)

317 @ 283

"And everything in American life is now seen through the lens of convenience. We are soft and lazy from years of having it easy."

Good observation. You ever try to even talk about principles with some people? It's like they don't understand the concept. "What does it mean to ME, right now," is what registers.

This is a huge problem and it's easy to see how it's playing out institutionally everywhere. A world without principles can function -- for awhile.

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 08, 2012 03:29 PM (zpqa2)

318 187 Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at November 08, 2012 03:00 PM (qFpRI)


There is no way to know if they're being blocked on FB. How would they know that?
Posted by: Tami at November 08, 2012 03:07 PM (X6akg)

Apparently there is because within an hour of me doing it they were calling my husband to scream and curse at him for it.

As far as getting on the system and burning it down from the inside, as someone upthread suggested, not gonna do it. Maybe that's foolish of me but I refuse to set that kind of example for my children. We will be self-sufficient. Period.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at November 08, 2012 03:29 PM (qFpRI)

319 When I saw the bomber jacket pic, my thought was immediately "Oh, so now you're George Bush!"

Methinks it tickled too many ladyparts ...

Posted by: Joe at November 08, 2012 03:29 PM (pM5lc)

320 No, let us help them bring it faster. Let us light backfires and drive the flames towards them.Posted by: DiogenesLamp

You would be torching your own credibility as well. Bush pretty much gave into the Lefts economic plan, how well did that work out for him.

Except for clear 1st and 2nd Amendment issues, the GOP need only ABSTAIN.

Posted by: burned cut-loop at November 08, 2012 03:30 PM (SX6wc)

321 I still haven't decided what course I'm going to take, but withdrawing from economic activity to the greatest possible extent is pretty much a no-brainer.

Posted by: Scobface, Staying Positive at November 08, 2012 03:30 PM (IoNBC)

322 Apparently there is because within an hour of me doing it they were calling my husband to scream and curse at him for it.

Did your husband scream and curse right back at him?

Seriously, that's one set of relatives who aren't getting a Christmas card this year.

Posted by: EC at November 08, 2012 03:30 PM (GQ8sn)

323 I feel like I need to do something, but the magazine is already full, as is the pantry. Maybe I should just go burn something.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 08, 2012 03:30 PM (evdj2)

324 I too am easing off and away from this shit.
Taking up drinking and smoking per Ace's advice, and I ordered an economy sized crate of I-Don't-Give-a-Fvck from the Amazon link.
Listened to music all morning instead of talk radio, and I'm going to spend the evening loading bullets instead of looking at the fakking news on tv.
Been too wrapped up in this circus since billy jeff.
I'm about done.
Going to concentrate on Me and Mine.


Posted by: Roland THTG at November 08, 2012 03:31 PM (I7O5y)

325 This is a huge problem and it's easy to see how it's
playing out institutionally everywhere. A world without principles can
function -- for awhile.


Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 08, 2012 03:29 PM (zpqa2)

It'll function, all right. It will just function a lot more like the jungle and a lot less like a civilization. (shrug)

Posted by: davidinvirginia at November 08, 2012 03:31 PM (qEkGZ)

326 264 Go ahead and blame a few million votes on whatever makes you feel better. But blame tens of millions on reality. That's the real problem.

Election should not have been close in a sane world.
-----------------------------

Sandy just one piece of the puzzle.

We are all trying to understand why the OBVIOUS didn't happen in this election.

2012 should have buried Obama and liberalism for 20 years. It didn't, and we are trying to figure out why.

Posted by: America Fuck Yeah! at November 08, 2012 03:31 PM (4TBK2)

327 @ 313

Freedom is hard (and inconvenient).

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 08, 2012 03:32 PM (zpqa2)

328 Freedom is scary because it entails the freedom to fail.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 08, 2012 03:32 PM (evdj2)

329
Lessons I Learned, These are all generalizations, there are some exceptions, but certainly not enough:
Women, particularly single ones under 40, are really just Vaginas with a vote after all.
Blacks vote for people of color. In a weird juxtaposition, this isn't considered to be racist.
Evangelicals care more if their candidate is a Protestant than wether or not the country falls apart.
No one really cares about voter fraud, it is instituitionalized.
BOTH sides are really hung up on issues that the elected federal government has next to no say on at all- Gay Marrige and Abortion.
The youth in this country are brainwashed liberals- and the Right, after sacrificing the educational establishment to the Left, seems surprised.

Posted by: Gerry Owen at November 08, 2012 03:33 PM (4ABat)

330 Why didn't you come to me like a man and tell me there was a new thread.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 08, 2012 03:33 PM (evdj2)

331 Republicans don't get that genetic and historical heritage should not determine who gets all the goodies.

Exactly. The government should determine that!

Posted by: CJ at November 08, 2012 03:34 PM (9KqcB)

332 Interesting. Imo...it's simple. Mitt didn't shore up the conservative base. Unfortunately, they stayed home. When your foundation isn't strong...how do build? He believed the election would be won by the Independent vote. Live by the Independents and die by the Independents. Obama worked on his base for 4 years. The tea party (like them or not) were snubbed. He went to the liberal media...saw him once on Sean Hannity. :-(

Posted by: eileen at November 08, 2012 03:34 PM (Buy2T)

333 Evangelicals care more if their candidate is a Protestant than wether or not the country falls apart.

I think this one is wrong by the numbers but otherwise, all good observations.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 08, 2012 03:35 PM (evdj2)

334 re: "To tens of millions of American voters, a conservative message of self-reliance and individual economic freedom is, quite frankly, terrifying."

It's a good thing Romney didn't run on that message. He could have really fucked this up.

Unusually, I got to see some ads this year, because the GOP is fucking retarded and/or corrupt, and someone convinced someone with money to blow tons of it in my perma-"blue" state. (Obama's people were smart enough not to do *anything* here.) So I got Romney's "message." It was not about freedom.

I got to see Romney's Buchananite protectionist ads about America losing factory jobs to China, and his you're-not-better-off-than-four-years ago ads that, instead of being about how you're not better off than four years ago because top-down economic interventionism is a centuries-proven failure, they were about how the debt's too high (mentioned in passing) and Romney will "create" hundreds of thousands of "jobs" in my state. You know, an ad like Mussolini or Mao would run.

There is no "conservative message" emanating from any part of the Republican party (except in Kentucky).

Posted by: oblig. at November 08, 2012 03:35 PM (cePv8)

335 Election should not have been close in a sane world.


Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at November 08, 2012 03:19 PM (zpqa2)


This.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 03:35 PM (R9579)

336 He said obama was showing leadership and he he appreciates true leadership like this.___
And this just a week after he had reamed preazy revenge for saying he couldn't change Washington from the inside! He was stumping for MItt in VA, and went on a really great riff about how stupid it was for preazy to say that.

And he could have discussed FEMA help out of public view, he could have told preazy to take an aerial view of the devastation. Anything but what he ended up doing.

Posted by: kallisto at November 08, 2012 03:35 PM (jm/9g)

337 @326

What happened is a MSM palace guard that shielded Obama from any and all bad effects of his policies and was able to paint his opponent as out of touch.

Obama won coal country in western PA.

Let me say that again:

OBAMA WON COAL COUNTRY IN WESTERN PA

How in the name of GOD is that even remotely possible??

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 08, 2012 03:35 PM (06lNq)

338 Apparently there is because within an hour of me doing it they were calling my husband to scream and curse at him for it.

Probably tried to send you a gloating message and got the "you don't have permission" box (my shitbird brother blocks me periodically because my rejection of totalitarian collectivism makes me a "fascist"[sic]).

Posted by: HeatherRadish, Crankypants at November 08, 2012 03:36 PM (/kI1Q)

339 In England there are no time limits on unemployment pay. they have teenagers who have grown up in houses where no one has held a job since they were born. I you can comfortably be idle with no worries that the government checks won't stop why go work? it's not like the old days. my god i've lost my job how will i feed my kids? that doesn't happen. well not yet. the wheels come off the wards of the state are screwed. no skills. no jobs. EBT cards broke. And the producers the people not content to live on the public dole we own lots and lots of guns.

Posted by: we are so screwed at November 08, 2012 03:37 PM (HEa5q)

340 In 2014, will there be two whack-job Republican Senate candidates making Crazy Talk which scares away indeps without gaining any additional voters?


Who will be our next COD / Angle ? Mourdock / Akin? Who among you...

Posted by: Jerry Jack in Jacksonville at November 08, 2012 03:37 PM (Dll6b)

341 322 Apparently there is because within an hour of me doing it they were calling my husband to scream and curse at him for it.

Did your husband scream and curse right back at him?

Seriously, that's one set of relatives who aren't getting a Christmas card this year.
Posted by: EC at November 08, 2012 03:30 PM (GQ8sn)

They are now deleted instead of just blocked. Which promtped the gal to leave a nasty message for me on hubby's Facebook page. They are adult children. And, no they won't be getting a Christmas card. We won't be attending family functions that are at for quite some time after this nonsense.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at November 08, 2012 03:37 PM (qFpRI)

342 Apparently there is because within an hour of me doing it they were calling my husband to scream and curse at him for it.



As far as getting on the system and burning it down from the inside,
as someone upthread suggested, not gonna do it. Maybe that's foolish of
me but I refuse to set that kind of example for my children. We will be
self-sufficient. Period.

Posted by: Mandy P., lurking lurker who lurks at November 08, 2012 03:29 PM (qFpRI)


Well then, see how pissed they get when you unfriend them altogether. I would not put up with that crap. Who needs that grief? It's YOUR FB page....YOU get to decide who you include.

Posted by: Tami at November 08, 2012 03:38 PM (X6akg)

343 Meanwhile, I was listening to some dipshit on Fox Business talk about ObamaScare and how things were going to change. he said that since people will all be covered by insurance (not true, but what the hell) there won't be people going to the emergency rooms for colds anymore. I sat screaming at the TV, "WHY NOT? WHO'S GOING TO STOP THEM? THEY LIKE JUST RUNNING TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM FOR A SNIFFLE!!" ... but the anchor didn't hear and didn't bother relaying my question to the dipshit.

Then I had to sit through that fuckface Zeke Emanuel blab on CNBC about some more bullshit with ObamScare but, again, no one bothered asking any decent questions of him.

Fuck all of these people. Brazen Fiskers for all of them.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 08, 2012 03:38 PM (X3lox)

344 Posted by: we are so screwed at November 08, 2012 03:37 PM (HEa5q)


yeah, no more 'UB 40'. Now the GIRO rules while fewer and fewer work

Posted by: Jerry Jack in Jacksonville at November 08, 2012 03:38 PM (Dll6b)

345 45 I agree. Barak Obama = Juan Peron without the snazzy uniforms.

He'll either "run" for a 3rd term after his stacked Supreme Court invalidates the 22nd amendment or have Michelle "run".
Afterthe economy collapses and 50 million more voters are on the dole for years, completely dependent on Uncle Sugar and not interested in ever working again,the "election" will have all the meaning of your typical election in Russia or Venezuela.

Posted by: Jaylord at November 08, 2012 03:39 PM (RuF8n)

346 76
14It still doesn't explain 32% registered Republican turnout (I still haven't seen a source quote for this stat). It doesn't explain why, at best, Romney matched McCain total vote numbers.

--------------

Lou Dobbs used that stat last night.
He was as gobsmacked as the rest of us are about it....and went on about it for a while.

I'm still trying to figure it out.

The only thing that it corresponds to...are the numbers that Romney got, early in the Primaries.
A year ago, 2/3 of the R's wanted someone else.
On 11/06/12...2/3 of the R's sat home.

I can't believe that so many R's would be so...stubborn...that they would let the country burn, rather than vote for Romney.
He wasn't my first choice either.
But, damn.
Compared to Barky, there was no choice.
Posted by: wheatie at November 08, 2012 02:52 PM (ICEh3)


**************************

^^ THIS ^^

Fucking this...

Posted by: Boomer Redneque, tablet edition at November 08, 2012 03:39 PM (eQnzo)

347 McCain OH 2008 - 2,677,820

Romney OH 2012 - 2,593,789

Repubs lost ground in OH.

Source CNN Election results 2012 and Wiki 2008.
Posted by: Vic at November 08, 2012 03:27 PM
Well there has been a loss of population from Ohio so that may account for part of it. But I also think there is some fraud involved, wouldn't be Ohio without it. And unions are still huge there.

Posted by: Deanna at November 08, 2012 03:40 PM (+npP4)

348 Sandy didn't help Obama. The coverage of Sandy did.
Obama hasn't done any better with Sandy than Bush did with Katrina. But
you wouldn't know it to see the reporting. In reality, Obama has
personally done less to help the Sandy victims than Bush did to help the
Katrina victims.

Posted by: SpasticToad at November 08, 2012 03:25 PM (Zewfw)

Media propaganda corps is the hill we absolutely should have died on. Now it's too late.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 03:40 PM (R9579)

349 Again, though, even if this is true and Sandy was a big reason, it simply points to the major, undeniable problem we now face. The electorate is really, really stupid. Really stupid. And our message is one that resonates with people who have the ability to think beyond the vague promises of free shit. Our message takes a little bit of thought to understand. And in an increasingly stupid country, that message becomes harder and harder to get across as time goes on.

Posted by: Rich at November 08, 2012 03:41 PM (arczc)

350 Just one slightly addled person's take--the moment I heard Christie being interviewed live on WCBS the morning after the storm and gushing over Obama, I knew the storm was going to have an impact on the election. It wasn't just that it was CC gushing; it was O's opportunity to look like a man in charge. If course the end result was no better than Katrina, for the peeps that is, but that's another story.

Posted by: Cricket at November 08, 2012 03:42 PM (DrC22)

351 Posted by: radar at November 08, 2012 02:55 PM (zmlwq)

Exactly. tinyurl.com/b9b3dyt

Read it, people.

Posted by: entropy at November 08, 2012 03:42 PM (TULs6)

352 Except for clear 1st and 2nd Amendment issues, the GOP need only ABSTAIN.


Posted by: burned cut-loop at November 08, 2012 03:30 PM (SX6wc)


My thought was that the spineless orange boner should say "Mr president, we want to work with you on the budget, but no republican will write or sponsor any such bill. We request that the dem house minority leader have the DEMOCRAT budget bill prepared and submit it to the full house for approval. No House budget votes will be taken until the final version of the bill has been posted on line for 72 non-weekend hours."
Then the Repubs all vote "present".

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 08, 2012 03:42 PM (Cnqmv)

353 This is probably much smaller than you think. Check the polls in the rcp average before the hurricane. Romney was still losing OH, and barely ahead by one point in VA and FL. If we take the polls are true, he probably was going to lose even before the hurricane.

Posted by: MJH at November 08, 2012 03:43 PM (CueZK)

354 A big point to add to Ace's point in the article is that the average American no longer understands just exactly what US debt, or hell, personal debt, means to them.

The average US household has 10k in debt and no real inclination on paying it off in the near future, even if they have the money. The national debt is just NUMBERS to them, just as it is to many lefties.

Billion, Trillion, Quadrillion--JUST NUMBERS. They think there is an endless pot of money out there in the ranks of the wealthy and if we just take more from them those nasty numbers will go away.

Also, if that same majority feels no immediate ill effects from the actions by the government (despite how much we tell them this is going to hurt them) they see no problems. (hence the lack of response to HCR, Stimulus, deficit, cover-ups) The culture of instant gratification is also the one of instant pain. They will not cease to do something until they are in HUGE PAIN.

Lost house. Bankruptcy.... hell at this point it would take WAR (invasion or civil) on American soil to pull their heads out of their asses.

Posted by: mnm at November 08, 2012 03:45 PM (6mijs)

355 Maybe that's foolish of me but I refuse to set that kind of example for my children.

You want them to be Boxer from Animal Farm so that's the example you're setting?

Wierd.

Posted by: entropy at November 08, 2012 03:45 PM (TULs6)

356 Vic,

I was in error and you are correct. Romney underperformed in OH. However, he overperformed in FL, VA and NH. He also overperformed in CO.

My point remains that a substantial (although not complete) explanation for the undervotes has to do with Republicans in large deep red or blue states sitting it out because they thought their vote were irrelevant or unnecessary.

Posted by: angler at November 08, 2012 03:45 PM (SwjAj)

357 * credit card debt

Posted by: mnm at November 08, 2012 03:45 PM (6mijs)

358 What if the whole election was swung by a random Black Swan event which had nothing to do with anything that was being debated throughout the past two years?

Yep. I do think the Black Swan effect here was enough to push this election-- a narrow one-- one way rather than the other. The two black swans this election (though the first might not quite fit the "black swan" designation) were

Akin
Sandy

But in both cases, the black swan event had a follow-up or accompaniment which is what gave it political resonance when it counted, made the political effect stick on election day. The killer combos were

Akin + Mourdock
Sandy + Christie

It's what Christie did that made Sandy politically consequential. If Christie had not acted the way he did-- without Christie's over-the-top praise for Obama and a photo-op that epitomized "presidential bipartisanship"-- Sandy would have have nowhere near the political consequences that it did.

Posted by: lael at November 08, 2012 03:46 PM (tUcg9)

359 Except for clear 1st and 2nd Amendment issues, the GOP need only ABSTAIN.


Posted by: burned cut-loop at November 08, 2012 03:30 PM (SX6wc)

Do you mean obstruct? That's what we will be accused of if we do not cooperate. I say raise taxes on the Rich! Especially in any Industry dominated by Liberals. Glenn Reynolds has been talking about Hollywood tax increases for a long time, I say let's do it!
I'm sure we can think of other ways to light Liberal money on fire.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 03:47 PM (R9579)

360 So, the Halliburton Hurricane Generating Machine was really a Google Hurricane Generating Machine after all ...

Posted by: Joe at November 08, 2012 03:47 PM (pM5lc)

361 Chris R. has been banned in violation of the policy against death threats.

His IP will be retained in case any law enforcement check up on it.

Posted by: ace at November 08, 2012 03:47 PM (LCRYB)

362 @349

The conservative message is not complex in the least bit.

Taxation should be low, regulations should be few.

Women aught not kill their babies.

Marriage is between a man and a woman.

We aught not have government sanctioned racial preferences in hiring, advancement or recruitment.

Voting is sacrosanct and should be treated as if it is at least as important and secure as we make buying over the counter medications.

I could go on but you get the point.

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 08, 2012 03:49 PM (06lNq)

363 We just didn't the person from the destroyed areas yelling into the cameras why does obama hate white people.

There has been squat for help. Its all being done locally. Where I voted there was an army of women sorting out donated goods. Clothes, diapers, food, water,you name it. They said the word on the street was they have enough clothes but were lacking cleaning supplies, like rubber gloves, bleach, brooms, etc.

The locals are making the impact, the fed not so much.

Posted by: Berserker at November 08, 2012 03:50 PM (FMbng)

364 www. youtube. com/ watch? v=sSF1hjaG63o

@245 Correct. Relatives in Sandy's eye didnt stop them from voting, but it stopped many, many others. o voters.
katrina was not sandy. it was covered as a local event. a hug didnt sway the huge enthusiasm at events. Are you going to believe what you SAW or what others are saying. The numbers dont add up.

Posted by: ShameTheShameless at November 08, 2012 03:50 PM (TFeHR)

365 OBAMA WON COAL COUNTRY IN WESTERN PA

How in the name of GOD is that even remotely possible??
Posted by: General Woundwort at November 08, 2012 03:35 PM
Hmmm...not exactly. He won Allegheny county, Pittsburgh. But Romney won the surrounding counties.He won by as much as 70%in some of them. It was Pittsburgh, Erie, and Philadelphia that won the state for Obama. Hard to overcome an 84% vote in Phillie.

Posted by: Deanna at November 08, 2012 03:50 PM (+npP4)

366 It'll function, all right. It will just function a lot more like the jungle and a lot less like a civilization. (shrug)


Posted by: davidinvirginia at November 08, 2012 03:31 PM (qEkGZ)

And here is truth.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 03:50 PM (R9579)

367 ""We just didn't the person from the destroyed areas yelling into the cameras why does obama hate white people.""

Was supposed to be We just didn't HAVE the person ....

Posted by: Berserker at November 08, 2012 03:51 PM (FMbng)

368 Here's what I wrote last night on another thread re Sandy + Christie:

I think at that precise moment when Sandy hit-- after the debates were done, on the brink of the election-- many Americans (and not just right-wingers like us) had actually come to gravely doubt Obama's adequacy as POTUS. In terms of competence, temperament, leadership, bipartisanship, ability to get anything done, for example. They were ready (at long last, after much resistance) to kick him out. And the Romney they saw from the first debate and on... looked like a promising new hire for the job.

But when Sandy hit and Christie endorsed Obama's "outstanding" POTUSing, all those people had an instant excuse to take the path of least resistance back. They didn't really want to fire Obama, first black POTUS-- and now, thank god, they didn't have to. See, they said to themselves: Obama's a perfectly fine, even "outstanding" POTUS: Chris Fucking Christie said so. Nothing to worry about. We can trust him to do an at least adequate job for another 4 years.


What I forgot to mention in that comment and will add now is this: it's not just that Christie went above and beyond in his effusive praise of Obama. It's also what he said (and didn't say) afterward, right before the election, about Romney. That was the killer knife in the back.

Anyone else catch this? When asked in an interview about the election/ Romney, Christie said something like: "I have endorsed Romney for President. I'm a Republican and support the GOP in this election."

Seriously, my paraphrase might even be more enthusiastic than the actual quote. It was the most back-handed-- backstabbing-- "endorsement" ever. It framed his endorsement in the past tense! And the reason given was mere grudging party line: "I'm a Republican." *Nothing* at all that would give anyone any reason to vote for Romney over the "great" and "outstanding" Obama.

I used to like Chris Christie. FU Springsteen fanboy.

Posted by: lael at November 08, 2012 03:52 PM (tUcg9)

369 OBAMA WON COAL COUNTRY IN WESTERN PA

How in the name of GOD is that even remotely possible??


Posted by: General Woundwort at November 08, 2012 03:35 PM (06lNq)

Cognitive dissonance.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 03:53 PM (R9579)

370 OBAMA WON COAL COUNTRY IN WESTERN PA

How in the name of GOD is that even remotely possible??




Posted by: General Woundwort at November 08, 2012 03:35 PM (06lNq)

Cognitive dissonance.


Hope they like the funemployment.

Posted by: EC at November 08, 2012 03:55 PM (GQ8sn)

371 I'd like to hear more about what happened with ORCA from the folks that participated in it (have seen some of your posts here).

I saw some of Truman's posts on Tuesday early on that sounded like Ohio and FL were looking really good, but I saw a post from him today pretty much saying it failed.

Posted by: Pete at November 08, 2012 03:55 PM (+GIS3)

372 I'm just going to keep reposting this on every thread until it sinks in.

"Brad and GG have hit home runs here that the "conservatives" don't wish to here.
The fact is that the Republican party has stupidly abandoned popular culture, media, etc. (and the "but they don't like us" line is the whine of a sniveling coward)
Engage the populace. Late night TV. Various web channels. Make appearances. Yuk it up w/ the hosts. Be of good cheer. Get out, shake hands (which Mitt finally did at 3 weeks out).
Trust me when I say that if you're sitting across the desk from someone, they won't insult you for long, but if you run away, whining that "it's not fair, well, you're a target. And won't get many votes..."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This right here is one of the only sensible things that has been said at the HQ in the past 2 days. Abide it or fail for life.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 08, 2012 03:55 PM (Td9D+)

373 Let's see, according to some commenters, we have to change our views on immigration, economics, gay marriage, abortion, and now "climate change". Anything else?

Posted by: Andrea Mitchell at November 08, 2012 03:55 PM (YmPwQ)

374 371
I'd like to hear more about what happened with ORCA from the folks that participated in it (have seen some of your posts here).

I
saw some of Truman's posts on Tuesday early on that sounded like Ohio
and FL were looking really good, but I saw a post from him today pretty
much saying it failed.


Posted by: Pete at November 08, 2012 03:55 PM (+GIS3)

See the new thread.

Posted by: Tami at November 08, 2012 03:56 PM (X6akg)

375 AH! Off, old, shriveled up sock!

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at November 08, 2012 03:57 PM (YmPwQ)

376 Yup.

Posted by: GregInSeattle at November 08, 2012 03:58 PM (B5cM9)

377 "Let's see, according to some commenters, we have to change our views on immigration, economics, gay marriage, abortion, and now "climate change". Anything else?"

Yeah, you have to change your attitude on what it takes to win an election. Until then, conservatives have no use for you.

Welcome to the real world.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 08, 2012 03:58 PM (Td9D+)

378 372...sounds good in theory. I wonder how Romney would have done "yukking it up" with a bunch of overtly hostile talk show hosts.

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at November 08, 2012 03:59 PM (YmPwQ)

379 Akin + Mourdock
Sandy + Christie

It's what
Christie did that made Sandy politically consequential. If Christie had
not acted the way he did-- without Christie's over-the-top praise for
Obama and a photo-op that epitomized "presidential bipartisanship"--
Sandy would have have nowhere near the political consequences that it
did.

Posted by: lael at November 08, 2012 03:46 PM (tUcg9)

Very astute way of explaining it.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 03:59 PM (R9579)

380 Do
you mean obstruct? That's what we will be accused of if we do not
cooperate. I say raise taxes on the Rich! Especially in any Industry
dominated by Liberals. Glenn Reynolds has been talking about Hollywood
tax increases for a long time, I say let's do it!Posted by: DiogenesLamp


No, to obstruct is to actively oppose them. Abstention is to give the full measure of the voters' choice.

Bush tax cuts? Ok, well, Americans just voted for higher taxes. We oppose those things because we understand the ramifications. The US public just said, "DERP!"

Excise taxes would be fine by me but we only have the House. It won't pass no matter how hard we push it.

Posted by: burned cut-loop at November 08, 2012 03:59 PM (SX6wc)

381 Don't forget the free will actions that followed the random chance of a hurricane:

Obama put on his Air Force Commander in Chief bomber jacket and did some photo ops.

Romney asked people to bring hurricane donations to his rally, and the media attacked him for that.

The people, brainwashed by photo ops and media attacks, voted accordingly.

Posted by: aaa at November 08, 2012 04:00 PM (JFsQc)

382 377. I see. So we have to lie and pretend to be Democrats. Hell, it works for their side.

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at November 08, 2012 04:00 PM (YmPwQ)

383 "...sounds good in theory. I wonder how Romney would have done "yukking it up" with a bunch of overtly hostile talk show hosts."

Keep on with the defeatist shit. See you back here in 2016, after the latest GOP failfest and further liberalization of culture through movies and media.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 08, 2012 04:02 PM (Td9D+)

384 Umm, we saw a lot of Obama here in Colorado, but not a lot of stimulus bucks. We are kinda ground zero for the Green Energy thing, but that was total fail, or should've been. A PAC ran a very, I believe, effective ad about Danish windmill maker Vastas closing their plants because the wind subsidy expired (due to Mitt Romney and his friends in congress). This ad was not countered in any way here. It featured a nice hispanic family from Pueblo and never mentioned that its a euro company. Local hero Kyle asked Obama about Abound on 9News, but there was no coordinated reply on this Green Energy stuff by the R/R team that was needed to turn Obama into fail. I think the wind thing probably hurt R/R in Iowa, as well.

For many, Sandy PROVED AGW!!! Made me think, hmm, so, if y'all knew this was coming, why didn't y'all spend some bux on flood-proofing the infrastructure in lower Manhattan and bury your power lines rather than try to centrally plan the entire economy and commit industrial suicide. Oh right, well, at least I have they consolation that they are better at governing then we are, lol ...

Posted by: Joe at November 08, 2012 04:04 PM (pM5lc)

385 "I see. So we have to lie and pretend to be Democrats. Hell, it works for their side."

Yes, now you're beginning to understand.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 08, 2012 04:04 PM (Td9D+)

386
Two hurricanes affected the race. Remember that the RNC was delayed because of Hurricane Isaac. If only Chris Christie had behaved like Bobby Jindal did when Obama came to be on camera and see the damage.

Posted by: Kirstin at November 08, 2012 04:06 PM (2SHLC)

387 This right here is one of the only sensible things that has been said at the HQ in the past 2 days. Abide it or fail for life.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 08, 2012 03:55 PM (Td9D+)
I disagree. It is of trivial importance. The Media drive the narrative. In 1992, I listened to six months of bad economic news leading the evening broadcast and how unemployment and shuttered factories were all George Bush's fault. The day after the election Peter Jennings (ABC NEWS) announced "The recession ended back in March, and the economy now looks rosy!"
Oh yeah? So why the fuck did you make with all the doom and gloom on every fucking broadcast leading up to the election?
The problem is that everyone who works for the Media is a Liberal Democrat, Hired in New York (Obama by 79% in 200 and who then joins a Union, and is also probably blood related to a Democrat party official. (Cokie Roberts.)
The Media and the Democrats have an incestuous relationship, and till we get around them, they are going to keep burning us.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 04:07 PM (R9579)

388 372...sounds good in theory. I wonder how Romney
would have done "yukking it up" with a bunch of overtly hostile talk
show hosts.

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at November 08, 2012 03:59 PM (YmPwQ)

Ask Sarah Palin. I think she tried that.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 04:08 PM (R9579)

389 377. I see. So we have to lie and pretend to be Democrats. Hell, it works for their side.

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at November 08, 2012 04:00 PM (YmPwQ)

I think he means that we have to take over their party by out evil-ing them.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 04:10 PM (R9579)

390 Stop blaming Christie - yes it's frustrating to see it, but he had no choice and did the right thing, both as a governor and a person. His statement that he didn't give a damn about the election I'm sure was honest and heartfelt. What was he supposed to do? Say no? Be a partisan under those circumstances? Give Romney a bite of the apple? Watching the press conference you could see him squirming while Obama monologued - he knew it was over for himself then.


Posted by: Joe at November 08, 2012 04:10 PM (pM5lc)

391 "The Media and the Democrats have an incestuous relationship, and till we get around them, they are going to keep burning us."

Uh..you just made my point for me.

The problem with conservatives is that instead of trying to beat the Hollywood game from within, we pretend that it doesn't have a real effect on the electorate.

And the reality is, in our celebrity obsessed culture, it is really the only thing that has an effect.

Conservatives have NO presence in the channels of communication where hearts and minds are actually won in America. And the scary thing is, they are even stupider than the liberals if they refuse to acknowledge this.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 08, 2012 04:11 PM (Td9D+)

392 Keep on with the defeatist shit. See you back here
in 2016, after the latest GOP failfest and further liberalization of
culture through movies and media.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 08, 2012 04:02 PM (Td9D+)

No you won't. There won't be anything left in 2016. I'm not sure we will make it to 2013. Economic collapse is around the corner. Romney (coupled with vast production of cheap energy ala Canada and North Dakota) was probably the only hope for out growing it.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 04:11 PM (R9579)

393 386

Two hurricanes affected the race.

Yes, but the other was Katrina. That's when we lost the culture war and GWB went down hard.

Posted by: Joe at November 08, 2012 04:12 PM (pM5lc)

394 We need more "South Park Republicans" in the media.

We need more things like Red Eye (w/ Greg Gutfeld and Andy Levy).

Posted by: lael at November 08, 2012 04:13 PM (tUcg9)

395 383, dude, it's not defeatist. It's realist. Look at how shows such as the View fawned all over Michelle and Zero himself, while attacking Ann Romney. Do you think Letterman would have been "yukking it up" with Romney or attacking him at every turn? Going on shows such as this may have only worked if the cadaidate were much more combative, which usually only gets the Repub labeled as "crazy".

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at November 08, 2012 04:15 PM (YmPwQ)

396 I was saying 'Sandy' was huge last week, but people like Hugh Hewitt and Eric Erikson insisted it wasn't. Romney ran on one thing the Economy that it was bad, and two ways he be would different from Obama, First Leadership, and 2nd Bipartisanship.

The storm did take Romney off the news cycle and Libya and the economy for several days

It allowed Obama to play President and with the help of the MSM portray himself as a leader, lack of follow up by the MSM on the poor job of FEMA in the aftermath helped. Christie giving him a verbal lapdance gave verification of how great Obama was.

That led into number 2, the keynote speaker at the RNC going on and on about Obama and how they would rebuild New Jersey which equals bipartisanship. Indy's and woman love bipartisanship; they swooned in the debates according to the dials; whenever Romney mentioned working across the aisle.

Romney made the closing argument of his campaign about leadership and bipartisanship and the storm and Christie completely blew it away.

Another two factors were the poll showing that people thought Obama cared about them more; that goes with him on the hurricane tour and hugging victims, also the storm was a reminder of "hey maybe big government is so bad....because Romney wanted to cut FEMA"

As Ace showed in the post; the polls pre and post Sandy show a serious change toward Obama after the storm.

I believe if no Hurricane than Libya stays in the news cycle and Romney is elected

Posted by: jbwbubba at November 08, 2012 04:17 PM (BZcMK)

397 Conservatives have NO presence in the channels of
communication where hearts and minds are actually won in America. And
the scary thing is, they are even stupider than the liberals if they
refuse to acknowledge this.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 08, 2012 04:11 PM (Td9D+)

That isn't just your point, it is my point as well. If we were Democrats, and we were faced with a Republican Media acting like the current media, we would sue them on Affirmative action grounds (not enough Liberals being hired.) and we would sue them on Illegal campaign contribution grounds. (Their active partisanship constitutes a contribution in the form of free advertising.)
We would scare them with lawsuits, and then we would get the FCC to investigate their licenses. To sum it up, we would do anything we could think of to PUT THEM OUT OF BUSINESS.



Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 04:18 PM (R9579)

398 My head feels like it's going to explode. I hate half the people in this country. Nothing is making me feel better. I want to beat up a liberal. Somebody say something uplifting.

Posted by: L, just L at November 08, 2012 04:18 PM (0PiQ4)

399 I see plenty of Democrats who campaign as center-right but vote left all the time. We hardly ever see a Pub who runs as asquish who then turns around and goes hard right. It's curious

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at November 08, 2012 04:18 PM (YmPwQ)

400 "383, dude, it's not defeatist. It's realist. Look at how shows such as the View fawned all over Michelle and Zero himself, while attacking Ann Romney. Do you think Letterman would have been "yukking it up" with Romney or attacking him at every turn? Going on shows such as this may have only worked if the cadaidate were much more combative, which usually only gets the Repub labeled as "crazy".

Yes, and the reason Dems are fawned over in the media is because liberal ideas are promoted by the most talented people in the entertainment industry.

Conservatives have no talented artists, filmmakers, or anybody really who can appeal to the youth with style AND substance. And most of them see that as a good thing!'

Hence, another four years of Obama.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 08, 2012 04:19 PM (Td9D+)

401
This is actually the best explaination that I've heard. Well done, Ace.

Posted by: Optimizer at November 08, 2012 04:19 PM (Mxt9o)

402 "A voter who bases his vote on the Hurricane Sandy photo-ops is not a serious voter, and conservatives will rarely, if ever, appeal to him. Sad but true."

This rings true.

Still waiting for a clear breakdown and analysis of why the low R turnout. I'm still "gob-smacked" as was previously said, and just can't square it.

After 4 years of Obama, are there really that many people who call themselves Republicans who would stay home out of laziness or to make a "statement" that Romney wasn't perfect ideologically? I'm not a huge Romney fan (although I liked him more as the campaign went on), but my God, 4 more years of Obama is preferable? Really? Really?

Posted by: RM at November 08, 2012 04:23 PM (TRsME)

403 Yeah, I did. What's your point? Obama voters see
this stuff as tax cuts for the rich. Where are you going to get the $ to
make up for the $ the rich aren't paying? That's what's not dealt with.
Very few in the GOP can explain economics, which isn't surprising given
the visibility of those who don't even know how vaginas work.


Posted by: SFGoth at November 08, 2012 02:57 PM (dZ756)

I bet this has been covered (haven't read all the way down), but the fact of the matter is that the rich would be paying more total taxes under Romney's system. The goal was for the same size slice of a larger pie. The economic illiteracy, nay, downright stupidity of people like the poster above is staggering, and it has to be addressed in a simple, straightforward way for us conservatives to make our case. Too many ninnys are indoctrinated that economics is a zero sum game. This is a deliberate move by the left to foster the envy that they feed on for votes. It's not a hard case to make, or explain, but most cons never seem to try, probably because to them it's common sense/knowledge. Hell, you can even sell it to the Santa Clause voter-this is a way for the govt to get more money to pay for the free stuff you want. Not that baldly, of course, but boiled down that's the essence for them.

Posted by: Weirddave at November 08, 2012 04:23 PM (aH+zP)

404 400.....I've always gone with the "left -brained, right brained" thing. Creative artist types generally run lib, corporate management types seem to run conservative.
I'm not sure much can be done about this cultural stuff. It just might not be wired into into our make-up. Is there a training ground for conservative musicians or comedians? In film , I think there are some very good rightish filmmakers.

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at November 08, 2012 04:26 PM (YmPwQ)

405 I see plenty of Democrats who campaign as
center-right but vote left all the time. We hardly ever see a Pub who
runs as asquish who then turns around and goes hard right. It's curious

Posted by: Damn Sockpuppet at November 08, 2012 04:18 PM (YmPwQ)

The government is a tool that works one way better than another. The natural tendency for those in charge of it is to use it, not to refrain from using it.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 04:26 PM (R9579)

406 Maybe I'll just keep reposting this on every thread until it sinks in.

They don't like us. They want us to lose. They will do everything they can to make us lose. They won't avoid wedge issues they will make the whole appearance about them. They won't edit out gaffes, they will replay them in slow motion from different angles. They won't ask about reasonable stances and give you time to explain they will only ask about the most extreme positions and demand a yes or no. The more face time you have with them is only more opportunity to F* up and give them exactly what they *WANT* to ruin your candidacy.

The only way this gets solved is not by appearing on liberal media and therefore giving them the clips they want AND ratings which mean revenue AND more influence; instead working on reinvigorating and creating conservative media and culture alternatives.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 08, 2012 04:28 PM (0q2P7)

407 Conservatives have no talented artists, filmmakers,
or anybody really who can appeal to the youth with style AND substance.
And most of them see that as a good thing!'



Hence, another four years of Obama.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 08, 2012 04:19 PM (Td9D+)

They have created and enforce a monopoly. Conservative themes were popular for movies a long time ago, now they are mostly blacklisted as are those people who advocate them.
Another thing. Those who make their living playing "make believe" for a living tend to be liberal by nature anyway.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 04:28 PM (R9579)

408
"What if the whole thing was the result of some Black Swan event ..."
Wow, that's somepowerful wishcasting, Ace. If you believe this, of course, you don't have to question anything. Just bad luck is all. Why, if it hadn't rained, Romney would have won.
This is powerful medication. It's also fucking delusional.
Mitt Romney lost the election because people like me didn't vote for him. I'm not a life-long Republican, but since I've been one for going on 30 years now.
No way I was voting for Mitt Romney. Why? Because he's really functionally no different than Barack Obama in his policies. I lived with him as my Governor for 4 years, so I know. He's a Democrat, parading around as a Republican. He created ObamaCare. He invented it. That's how Democrat he is. The last thing I wanted was him in Washington signing Harry Reid's bills he pushes through a newly-defilibustered Senate.
Me and 3 million others who held our noses and voted for McCain against our better judgementsdidn't vote for Romney and are never going to vote for a faux-Republican.
Period.
Ever.
So, you can keep nominating them, but I ain't voting for them. I don't care if Democrats win. That's not my problem. I'm not sacrificing my principles to vote for a Republican who's really just a Democrat. My principles cannot be purchased, or bargained with. The Republican candidate either is a Republican and I will vote for him or he's like Mitt Romney, always reaching across the aisle to give handjobs to his best boyfriends on the other side of the aisle.
Not voting for that.
Republicans must OPPOSE everything Democrats PROPOSE. Or what use are they to me?
There's a debt limit vote coming up. Barack Obama will be wanting to borrow more money from my kids to do what? Build roads? Nope, he wants to send more money to the states to keep his hack union buddies employed; he wants to increase teachers union pay so they can continue to afford to donate to Democrats; he wants to reward his donors with my money so they can build bankruptable "green energy" companies.
Now, Republicans are either FOR giving Barack Obama a new credit card that I and my kids get to pay off ... or they are AGAINST raising the debt ceiling.
If they're FOR it, then fuck them. They lose my vote. I got enough enemies on the Democrat side. Don't need Repbublicans putting knives in my back.
Republicans raise the debt ceiling, and they won't get my vote next time. Period. Full Stop. And I'll do everythign in my power to make certain they lose as my revenge for the Republicans selling me and my kids out.
You want my vote?Republicans have to startfucking fighting for ME and stop jacking off Democrats under the table.

Posted by: someguy at November 08, 2012 04:30 PM (FzhkE)

409 "I've always gone with the "left -brained, right brained" thing. Creative artist types generally run lib, corporate management types seem to run conservative.
I'm not sure much can be done about this cultural stuff. It just might not be wired into into our make-up. Is there a training ground for conservative musicians or comedians? In film , I think there are some very good rightish filmmakers."

Yes, there are rightish filmmakers, but not any with the influence, capital, or balls to openly espouse conservative values in their product.
The fact that creative artists generally lean left is irrelevant. If conservatives ever hope to gain relevancy again, they need to start broadening their horizons past the corporate boardroom. Until then it's all systems fail on the U.S.S. Failer. Or you can keep blaming it on Hurricanes. (Not you, but some of the denser commenters here).

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 08, 2012 04:30 PM (Td9D+)

410 I've no doubt it comes down to a simple, stupid reason: there are far more simple, stupid people given the vote than we wanted to believe.

Take a poll of AoSHQ readers to compile a list of the top ten offenses of the Obama Administration. Then run another poll to see what portion of the general public has any knowledge of those items on the list. I think you'll get a lot of Charlie Gibson responses. "Never heard of it."

On the other hand, it could be worse. You could find high recognition of each item and yet the stupid buggers voted for Obama or stayed home anyway.

At this moment I'm feeling a lot of contempt for much of the nation. If I become a real racist it will be because the voters told me I should be one. Bad choices are a mandate, too.

Posted by: epobirs at November 08, 2012 04:31 PM (kcfmt)

411 Sandy was just a symptom of the real cause which is that the MSM still has a much greater influence over the undecided vote than we'd like to believe.


Posted by: desumme at November 08, 2012 04:39 PM (3Gd6H)

412 The 32% figure that's going around is, I think, refering to the percent of people who voted who identified themselves as Republicans, not the percentage of Republicans who voted.

This number is less interesting than the number of "Conservatives" who voted for Romney as opposed to the number who stayed home or voted Libertarian, etc. A back of the envelope calculation goes like this:
# of Adult Citizens eligle to vote: ~200 million
Percent who ID as Conservative: ~35% (down from 40% recently)

200e6 * 0.35 = 70 Million Conservatives eligle to vote.
Number of Votes for Romney: < 60 million.

Where did all the conservatives go???
If Obama can turn out 86% in Philly, why couldn't Romney have gotten the same in Rural counties in Ohio?
How many more votes would have an even tepid endorsement by Ron Paul have garnered?
How about the RNC right now hooking up with Evangelical Pastors and get everyone in their flocks registered and primed to vote early? Isn't this what Dems do with Black churches?
Isn't it time to choke/have a talking to someone/anyone who voted Gary Johnson?




Posted by: Jaylord at November 08, 2012 04:40 PM (RuF8n)

413 "Those who make their living playing "make believe" for a living tend to be liberal by nature anyway. "

Yeah well we just lost an important election because we refused to play "make believe".

And our own version of "make believe" is that are traditional conservative values resonate with the great unwashed.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 08, 2012 04:41 PM (Td9D+)

414 Many people simply vote for whom they perceive to be the winner. After the election they can then be part of the winning group. It makes them feel better. Polls even ones in which Romney was ahead also revealed that a majority of those polled thought Obama would win. One of Obama's teams greatest talents was to sell the public that Obama was
Inevitably going to be the winner. It worked

Posted by: JBS at November 08, 2012 04:49 PM (jQ7ef)

415
I know, let's have the Republican party start increase pandering to Hispanics and the Affirmative Action crowd. That will do the trick! Insert self-denouncement of your choice here!


We've got 23 million unemployed but we need more illegal unskilled immigrant workers who won't have health insurance and will always use the emergency room as the first choice for care because they will never deal with a doctor's office.

Posted by: Hrothgar at November 08, 2012 04:59 PM (Cnqmv)

416 In other news, yes, Chris Christie is a sucker of cocks.

Posted by: Concern Troll at November 08, 2012 05:07 PM (b1iOR)

417 Isn't it time to choke/have a talking to someone/anyone who voted Gary Johnson?

How many of the Reason mag editors endorsed Obama in 2008? Many of them, as I recall.

How many of the Reason mag editors endorsed Romney in 2012? Very few.

They'll fall for the hopeychangey liberaltarian pipe dream-- and be dashed on the rocks of disappointment and outrage. But when the necessary pragmatic choice for any sane libertarian is a Republican-- they'll stick to their "principles" and throw their endorsement away on Gary Johnson.

Idiots. And I say that as a small-l-libertarian myself.

"someguy" is a troll, no? Even if he's for real, he's a troll. This is how I feel: if you got off your ass and voted for Romney against Obama (though that may have been a grudging, hold-your-nose vote, you knew what was at stake), then you have the right to criticize/ blame Romney for the failings of his campaign, and the right to complain/ lament about the next 4 years.

If you didn't get off your ass and vote for Romney against Obama (stayed home or voted third party)? I don't want to hear it. If you're looking for someone to blame for next 4 years, look in the fucking mirror.

I don't care how you rationalize it. You're as much to blame as the stupid Honey Boo Bo Sandy (non)voters.

You're no better than a Hot Air troll.

LOL (a very bitter LOL) at any conservative (or "true conservative") who thinks by "sending a message" (not voting for Romney) in 2012 they're now more likely to get a MORE conservative candidate and eventually a MORE conservative nation after the next 4 years.

LOL LOL LOL.

A ticket with Paul Ryan on it lost to the Marxist SCOAMF, after a worse-than-Carter 4 years. Obamacare is now permanent. PERMANENT. FOREVER.

On almost any conservative value or tenet you care to name: on entitlements, taxation, illegal immigration, abortion, etc.--

The messaging from future Republican candidates will be less brave, less conservative, more pandering, more squishy, more liberal/leftwing.

By granting Obama a second term, Americans have validated that the present Democratic party platform is the NEW NORMAL.

The "message" you sent is the same as the "message" sent by Honey Boo Boo. Obama and Obamacare and economy-killing EPA regulations and You Didn't Build That etc. etc. etc.: THEY won.

You think suffering the consequences of another 4 years of Obama will wake Americans up and make them more conservative? (NB That's what some said to rationalize not voting for McCain.)

LOL. My answer is: take a look at Europe.

Once you go far enough down that path, the path of big BIG government and metastasizing entitlements, there IS no waking up. The hole just goes deeper and deeper.

"Austerity?" RIOTS RIOTS RIOTS RIOTS RIOTS.

Posted by: lael at November 08, 2012 05:08 PM (tUcg9)

418 Chris R. has been banned in violation of the policy against death threats.


His IP will be retained in case any law enforcement check up on it.


Chris R. better hope that Governor Chris Christie stays a very healthy person. Because he's never going to know, when that very authoritative *bang, bang, bang* comes to his door, that Governor CC hasn't choked on a sausage.

Of course, he could apologize to you, and beg to have the comment lifted from the perpetual view of internet search engines but I guess he prefers to have it hanging out there for a very, very, very long time while his IP address, which his provider is legally required to retain information about for a really long time, stays on your system.

I really don't 'get' people like that. Only a moby is that stupid.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 08, 2012 05:09 PM (feFL6)

419 If Obama can turn out 86% in Philly, why couldn't Romney have gotten the same in Rural counties in Ohio?

I just got through reading an article on philly.com where certain areas of the city went 99% for Obama. I suppose I could suspend my disbelief in reality long enough to believe that a huge number of hardworking people were able to fit a trip to the polls in between going to work, picking up the kids, making breakfast, lunch, dinner, cleaning the dishes, doing laundry, folding laundry, putting it away, putting gas in the car, making beds, or the 100's of other daily tasks that take up a normal day.

But no, I'm going to put my tin-foil hat on and suppose, just suppose mind you, that the 99% number represents a disenfranchisement on a ONE TO ONE BASIS of someone in the center of the state.

But philly.com reports it with a straight face. Without one iota of disbelief.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 08, 2012 05:20 PM (feFL6)

420
And our own version of "make believe" is that are traditional conservative values resonate with the great unwashed.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 08, 2012 04:41 PM (Td9D+)

Not the way they are related by those people who bring us news and entertainment. They distort everything in the manner of a funhouse mirror.
The media lies by omission and commission. We have to break them.


Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 05:24 PM (R9579)

421 But no, I'm going to put my tin-foil hat on and
suppose, just suppose mind you, that the 99% number represents a
disenfranchisement on a ONE TO ONE BASIS of someone in the center of the
state.

But philly.com reports it with a straight face. Without one iota of disbelief.


Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 08, 2012 05:20 PM (feFL6)

The communists used to hold lopsided elections too.

Posted by: DiogenesLamp at November 08, 2012 05:28 PM (R9579)

422 There are people who should not be voting. If we need a test to drive then we should have to pass a basic civics test to vote. Imbecile voting kills countries.

Posted by: misty at November 08, 2012 05:31 PM (4D8mC)

423 OBAMA WON COAL COUNTRY IN WESTERN PA

How in the name of GOD is that even remotely possible??

Posted by: General Woundwort at November 08, 2012 03:35 PM (06lNq)

Cognitive dissonance.

Hope they like the funemployment.
Posted by: EC at November 08, 2012 03:55 PM
NO OBAMADID NOT WIN COAL COUNTRY IN PA. I replied to this earlier. He won Allegheny county/Pittsburgh but Romney won all the surrounding counties by good percentages, as high as 70%. It was Phillie, Pittsburgh, and Erie that won the state for Obama.

Posted by: Deanna at November 08, 2012 06:06 PM (+npP4)

424 Sandy is of course a factor...a variable in the election results...but we need to,stop finding THE reason/excuse for this loss. In a 51%-49% election any variable flipping a mere 1% can then be blamed.

Looking at the final vote numbers, I feel the negatives of Obama showed up. He lost 9 million or so voters from 2008. He wasn't going to lose all 69 million. He wasn't going to lose 30 million due to the bad economy plus foreign policy screw ups plus a bad debate plus all the little inside baseball things we political blog reading types care/rant about. There aren't 10 million of his 90 million who care or even know about these things. He lost 9 million former yes votes! Of those, some stayed home and some switched to Romney. Where things went wrong is, including those former Obama voters who switched to Romney, Romney and the GOP still turned out 3 million votes less than the lousy, old, no chance of winning McCain turned out. After 4 bad years in economic terms. With a supposedly energized base. With a close race and a real shot at a win right there in front of them. It's amazing. There were many many positive and negative variables for both sides, but in the sum total, Romney could not add to the McCain turn out.

I would add that Nate Silver and RealClearPolitics simply nailed it by following state polling, and Silver never modeled anything close to a Romney win, even at Romney's peak after the Denver debate. If the polls were right, Romney was simply never going to win, Sandy or not.

Posted by: MostlyRight at November 08, 2012 06:07 PM (ZG8Ti)

425
Okay I give up. Now I get the italics to work but the paragraph thing doesn't. What I posted was..... NO OBAMA DID NOT WIN COAL COUNTRY IN PA. ... I replied to this earlier.... He won Allegheny county/Pittsburgh but Romney won all the surrounding counties by good percentages, as high as 70%. It was Phillie, Pittsburgh, and Erie that won the state for Obama.

Posted by: Deanna at November 08, 2012 06:08 PM (+npP4)

426 NO OBAMADID NOT WIN COAL COUNTRY IN PA. I replied to this earlier. He
won Allegheny county/Pittsburgh but Romney won all the surrounding
counties by good percentages, as high as 70%. It was Phillie,
Pittsburgh, and Erie that won the state for Obama.


If that's the case, and given what we heard and are hearing about the voting in Philadelphia, it's very possible indeed that Obama stole PA.

Posted by: lael at November 08, 2012 06:10 PM (tUcg9)

427 Ace: (Congratulations, Lightworker! You've healed a nation!)
-
It's a shock to see your handle in a post, especially in a context like this.

But teacher, who did I learn this thinking from if not from you? Remember how you explained it: the opposition does something you think is bad, you protest it and say it ought not to be allowed, but is stands, and then you have to copy it and play the game the rules now work.

I would much rather these tactics didn't work. For one thing, I think they are vital to an anti-White politics I hate. For another, if taking the high road of "what's good for everybody" won, pro-life politics would be in a much stronger position, and that's a higher priority for me than even "what's good for the Whites?" or "what's viable in the long run for a conservative politics." As soon as you have a general agreement that "we have to do what's right for -->everybody<--" (insert pro-life rant here).

But these tactics do work and have been endorsed and ratified by the voters, and being "good for everybody but nobody in particular" has failed and is not the way to win.

Some people have drawn from the election results the conclusion that social cons (of all kinds, pro-life, anti-gay-marriage and so on) should go to the back of the bus and shut up for the rest of forever, effectively conceding all their issues to the left. This is a capitulation on substance.

My conclusion is that conservatives have to shore up the White vote now and the White demographic base for the long run, and starting immediately they have to use the most effective political tactics, as practiced by the left and ratified by the voters.

Also, I used to think that moral issues were the main game and White sectional issues were subordinate. Not with this kind of demographic disaster they're not. Now I think that they road to a pro-life and socially conservative politics leads only through the restoration of White populations that have been willing to hear the right arguments. I think that giving up on the Whites is pretty much the same thing as giving up on all cultural issues. So, sorry if this is rude, that's how I see it till there's effective political action. And given that the right hardly ever takes any useful political action, that could be a while.

So, here's two paths:

1. Give way on substance, cut the ground from under all social cons, concede the continuing destruction of the historically White demographic base of right wing politics in Western countries, and compete with the left for votes by chasing the left as fast as they can run to socialism (with the left holding one side of the Overton Window and the "right" holding the other side), or...

2. Adapt to match or surpass the left in every tactic, explicitly do stuff that helps White people (such as trying to assist home schooling and trying to get rid of affirmative action, and not pretending that this is only for the benefit of non-Whites and it's a matter of indifference to conservatives whether Whites get a fair shot at jobs they are qualified for), slug it out with sectional and small ball politics till the demographic ship starts to turn around, and spend a heck of a lot of time figuring out how to keep the votes of the small government types while trying to pick up the votes of the heavily unionized White working class, which is the real challenge.

I'm for option 2. I don't think this is a nihilistic or a nation-wrecking approach. I think it's practical, down to earth and necessary.

Posted by: The Lightworker at November 09, 2012 01:24 AM (B/XPo)

428 Also, how can you satisfy both the small government types and the very unionized people, except by emphasizing states' rights? It can't be done. If everything has to be federalized, all the time, you can't play the kind of political game I think the right has to play.

But the left has spent decades making "states rights" synonymous with "lynchings". Another reason why the "race card" has to he challenged and cut up.

Posted by: The Lightworker at November 09, 2012 01:32 AM (B/XPo)

429 424 I would add that Nate Silver and RealClearPolitics simply nailed it by following state polling, and Silver never modeled anything close to a Romney win, even at Romney's peak after the Denver debate. If the polls were right, Romney was simply never going to win, Sandy or not.
-
This.

Posted by: The Lightworker at November 09, 2012 01:45 AM (B/XPo)

430 406 Maybe I'll just keep reposting this on every thread until it sinks in.
-
Go ahead.

406 ...The only way this gets solved is not by appearing on liberal media and therefore giving them the clips they want AND ratings which mean revenue AND more influence; instead working on reinvigorating and creating conservative media and culture alternatives.
-
And repeal the Hollywood tax cuts!

Posted by: The Lightworker at November 09, 2012 02:01 AM (B/XPo)

431 Also, abandon the George W. Bush world freedom agenda, as announced in his second inauguration speech. Don't even talk about it, just ditch it.

It's bitterly unpopular, it costs too much, it didn't work, and it's inconsistent with the inward-looking, demographic-restorationist small-ball politics that are needed.

Don't think global agenda, think life cycle. The Life of Julia was dead on the mark. (See how President Obama's policies affect Julia throughout her life.) The right mocked it, but the left was showing its supporters what was in it for them, and that is what you have to do. Conservatives need to do lives of Joe and Jane, and do them better.

And don't be ashamed to say: "Republican policies curtailed affirmative action and helped Joe win the job he needed to support Jane having kids. Conservative principles let everyone achieve according to their talents, not according to quota." Of course that's a clear racial appeal; Joe must be White for that to make sense. But you have to be prepared to do that. If you're not prepared to do anything for your supporters, and make it clear to them that you are helping them, (a) they might not show up to support you, and (b) without help, they'll wither in the long run, which has been happening, and then they can't help you as much as you need.

Posted by: The Lightworker at November 09, 2012 02:23 AM (B/XPo)

432 "(Congratulations, Lightworker! You've healed a nation!)"

(The Lightworker laughs at himself, slaps stupid self on head.) Of course you meant the actual Lightworker, the glorious one who made the Earth to cool / warm (change as needed), the oceans to (recede / rise, change as needed) etc.. The One.

Truly, we all have our moron moments.

Posted by: The Lightworker at November 09, 2012 02:29 AM (B/XPo)






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