You Aren't Going To Like This

Well. We lost. We lost in a disappointing fashion. If these numbers hold, Romney and Obama will have received less votes than Bush and Kerry did in 2004. It was said that Obama would benefit from a low turnout election and he clearly has.

I warn you that this post may be rambling and incoherent. Anger and disappointment can do that to a man.

First, as Gabe pointed out, Romney ran a good campaign. I didn't like Romney and didn't want him in the primaries, but I won't deny that I came to like him as the campaign went along. He did everything he was supposed to do. He campaigned hard. He spent his money wisely. He ran competitively in a lot of states. He made a lot of gains on what John McCain lost in 2008. Unfortunately McCain lost by so much in 2008 and there was too much ground to be made up.

I don't know why or how we only turned out, as of now, some 56 million people. That's less than McCain got. Were those 3 million people independents who voted for McCain but decided to stay home? Were the 10 million people who voted for Obama in 2008 but didn't in 2012 also independents who decided to stay home? Were they demoralized Democrats and Republicans?

If it turns out those 3 million people belong to a demographic that normally votes Republican then we'll have to find a way to appeal to them in 2016 or find a way to win without them.

Regardless, we're going to have to find a way to cobble together coalitions to win elections in the future. The Democrats are the party of free stuff. We can't really compete with that. I'll leave this to better minds, but I can tell you that you probably won't like where we'll have to go to win votes. Think amnesty.

Now I'm of the Monty/Andy school of thought. That which can't go on forever simply won't. This system will collapse. Medicare, Social Security, our debt, etc. It can't last. My hope was that we'd win this election and be able to temporarily fix those problems until the economy started moving again. We needed to buy ourselves time.

Those problems will remain unfixed. Instead the Democrats do will everything they can to push the reckoning further down the road. They'll raise taxes on everyone. By itself, that isn't the end of the world, but it will be devastating when viewed in conjunction with their other policies. What does our future hold? Look at California and Illinois. Last night, those states re-elected all the people responsible for their current state of affairs. You think those responsible will get punished as things get worse? Did FDR ever lose a Presidential election during the depression?

What do I mean by that? Well, you'll have more of your money taken by the government. This isn't taking place in a vacuum. The cost of goods has been rising and will continue to rise. Thanks to the EPA, your utility bills are going to continually increase. Nat Gas, Oil, Coal are going to cost more. But Ben, what about the Marcellus shale and our great coal reserves in Appalachia? Well, in my state we elected an anti-coal/shale Senator and President. Chances are good that your state did as well last night. Do you think they're not going to hinder production with regulations? If the energy producing company has to pay more to comply with regulations, then guess who ends up paying for those increased costs.

Obamacare is now permanent. Are you medium to low income? Are you relatively young? Well guess what happens when you get older and need surgery? You can't afford to pay for it outright, so you won't get it at all. Our healthcare model will mirror Canada or Europe. The poor and middle class will get pain pills and the rich will pay for surgeries and treatments out of pocket. It's almost funny how the party of the working man is going to ruin the healthcare system for the common man.

Oh and the Supreme Court. Yes the Supreme Court. Scalia is 76, Breyer and Ginsburg are 74, and worst of all Justice Kennedy is 76. The same Justice Kennedy who voted against Obamacare and is the swing vote on the court. If he passes or retires...well say goodbye to all the progress we made on gun rights and to some extent on property rights.


I can't even go on. The list is endless.


This isn't Bill Clinton's win in 1996. I hated the Clinton, but I didn't fear that he'd destroy our way of life. We are entering a brave new world. Prepare yourself.

[update] Let's wait for the analysis to come in before we start blaming RINOs, Conversatives, Pro-Lifers, etc etc. We don't yet know who stayed home or voted for Obama over Romney.


[update 2] There is one consolation. Chances are good that the people who voted for Obama will be those who suffer the most. People like you and I can take care of ourselves to an extent. We will suffer, but we're compentent and capable. We will survive, they won't. Quite literally in some cases.

Posted by: BenK at 09:23 AM



Comments

1
THIS DOESN’T EQUAL THAT:

1) Record Republican Enthusiasm

2) Record Republican Fundraising

3) Record GOTV

4) Record Early Voting

5) Record Republican Crowds

6) Record Independent Support

= Record Low Turnout?

How low was Republican turnout? Lower than 2004!

Folks, something stinks.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 07, 2012 09:26 AM (hlUJY)

2 The negative advertising and the MSM lack-of-coverage worked... the 10 million drop in votes for TFG happened... WE didn't turn out

WTF

Posted by: phreshone at November 07, 2012 09:27 AM (MAhUT)

3 The question will be WHO didn't turn out

Posted by: phreshone at November 07, 2012 09:29 AM (MAhUT)

4 http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2012-11-06/it-doesnt-matter

"3) In Fiscal Year 2011, the federal government collected $l government collected $2.303 trillion in tax revenue. Interest on the debt that year totaled $454.4 billion, and mandatory spending totaled $2,025 billion. In sum, mandatory spending plus debt interest totaled $2.479 trillion… exceeding total revenue by $176.4 billion."


Posted by: blehzor at November 07, 2012 09:30 AM (s9K+V)

5 We have let the GOP hand us RINOS we did not want two times in a row, held our noses and supported them. They tell us a third party will cause them to lose- so what? They are losing anyway! I'm third-party-ready.

Posted by: Texmom at November 07, 2012 09:30 AM (xSFpw)

6 The "War on Womyn" schtick probably hurt us more than we thought it would;

Mr. Obama’s campaign stitched together a shrunken but still decisive version of his 2008 coalition—single women, the young and culturally liberal, government and other unions workers, and especially minority voters.

http://tinyurl.com/at4s5yx


Posted by: kbdabear at November 07, 2012 09:32 AM (wwsoB)

7 Early voting has got to be ended...

Posted by: TFC3Tweets at November 07, 2012 09:32 AM (bgzAd)

8 Well not only did Romney run a good campaign, but as I pointed out during the primary under username Random before I adopted my much improved one, and as both William Jacobson of Legal Insurrection and Jonathan Last of The Weekly Standard and several others said, a significant number of Christians might stay home and refuse to vote because of anti-Mormon bigotry.

http://minx.cc/?blog=86&post=334731#c19631552

Unfortunately, with Romney's turnout down compared to McCain's and the dozens upon dozens of people here wondering where that turnout went in a year when the GOP seemed so energized, I think that's what happened.

This must be looked at to do an accurate post-mortem.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 07, 2012 09:32 AM (SKX2R)

9 I have no idea how the GOP voter numbers were smaller than McCain... Not a clue.

Posted by: TFC3Tweets at November 07, 2012 09:32 AM (bgzAd)

10 >>> The question will be WHO didn't turn out
Posted by: phreshone at November 07, 2012 09:29 AM

That will be the question.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 07, 2012 09:33 AM (SKX2R)

11 I firmly believe that Romney went to bed Monday night thinking it was in the bag. I also think Obama went to bed Monday night thinking he was beat. In the end turnout killed Romney and handed Obama an unexpected win. Both men were stunned last night for different reasons.

Posted by: teebone at November 07, 2012 09:33 AM (YtLSL)

12 Still would've preferred Rick Perry, but I voted so I don't know what happened. Maybe the missing Republicans will turn up in a shallow grave somewhere.

Posted by: JDTAY at November 07, 2012 09:34 AM (a0nis)

13 The fundamental mistake that Romney (and I) made was about those 23 million he kept talking about. We assumed that they wanted jobs. What they really want is to sit on the couch, watch Honey-Boo-Boo and get more free stuff from Obama.
Civil War by '24!

Posted by: Jaylord at November 07, 2012 09:34 AM (RuF8n)

14 Allow me to apologize on behalf of gay people, even though they'll tell you they're not sorry at all. We, as a group, are so blinded by the assumption that we "should" vote Democrat, and that gay marriage is so crucial an issue, that we ignore our immediate, tangible economic well-being in favor of being able to feel smug and self-satisfied and self-righteous from time to time. That, apparently, is what truly matters to gay people, but please remember that some of us are grounded in reality and can think beyond identity politics.

Posted by: Bostonpat at November 07, 2012 09:34 AM (lejgy)

15 >>> I have no idea how the GOP voter numbers were smaller than McCain... Not a clue.

My hypothesis is in the post above yours. Will you kindly read it and give me back your feedback, whatever it is, TFC3Tweets?

The link goes to one of my comments during the primaries, and from there links to an article by William Jacobson of Legal Insurrection, and within that article he references one by Jonathan Last of The Weekly Standard.

We were all thinking basically the same thing.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 07, 2012 09:35 AM (SKX2R)

16 Were the 10 million people who voted for Obama in 2008 but didn't in 2012 also independents who decided to stay home?
___
Just from what I've learned in my personal network, the ones who registered just to be historic in 2008stayed home yesterday.
Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 07, 2012 09:26 AM (hlUJY)
__
I agree. I keep hearing about how 52% exit polling said the country was on the wrong track, so how did preazy get re-elected? Well duh, dead people don't answer exit polls nor do manufactured votes.

Posted by: kallisto at November 07, 2012 09:35 AM (jm/9g)

17 how bad did Romney lose hispanics?

Posted by: we are so screwed at November 07, 2012 09:35 AM (HEa5q)

18 We all got it wrong.
The election wasn't about the economy.
Jobs?
We don't need no stinking jobs.
We get free stuff from the government.

The tipping point has been reached.
The takers can outvote the makers.

Hurricane Sandy influenced 42% in the exit polls.
Morons.

Remember:
90% of America is worthless, lazy and stupid.

Posted by: Tim Vincent at November 07, 2012 09:35 AM (aQyt7)

19 #11
I think so too.
I still can't believe how close FL was.

Posted by: Looking closely at November 07, 2012 09:35 AM (6Q9g2)

20 I can tell you that you probably won't like where we'll have to go to win votes

Then don't. Personally, I'm not going there. I'm just not a panderer, and have no plans to change. Old dog...new tricks...whatever.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at November 07, 2012 09:35 AM (vbh31)

21 I was thinking to myself this morning how the hell did we do worse than McCain. We deserve failure. We deserve collapse. I welcome it. My wife asked me this morning if we were going to put having a child on hold and the answer is yes. I wish people could understand the full gravity of the situtation. It's not just having to see TFG on tv every day.

Posted by: Evil Libertarian at November 07, 2012 09:35 AM (rIxVD)

22 If it turns out those 3 million people belong to a demographic that
normally votes Republican then we'll have to find a way to appeal to
them in 2016 or find a way to win without them.



Ban dildos.

Posted by: Rick Santorum at November 07, 2012 09:36 AM (mnpQF)

23 I don't understand how W got 62.0 million in 2004, McLame got 59.9 million in 2008 and Romney only got 57.0 million in 2012. How the fuck did that happen? How did we lose 5 million votes in 8 years?

Posted by: Saxinis at November 07, 2012 09:36 AM (zPa3K)

24 Will there be Choom in the camps?

Posted by: Paladin at November 07, 2012 09:36 AM (lP8dE)

25 >>>Oh and the Supreme Court. Yes the Supreme Court. Scalia is 76, Breyer and Ginsburg are 74, and worst of all Justice Kennedy is 76. The same Justice Kennedy who voted against Obamacare and is the swing vote on the court. If he passes or retires...well say goodbye to all the progress we made on gun rights and to some extent on property rights.

Pretty sure Voter ID laws and Restoring Felon's Voting Rights are gonna be at the top of the list. But they'll get to everything else after that.

Posted by: El Kabong at November 07, 2012 09:36 AM (JycCV)

26 From the last thread:

2008 Presidential election

Obama 69,498,215 (52.93%) McCain 59,948,240 (45.66)


2012 election


Obama 59,633,456 (50.33%) Romney 57,003,614 (48.11%)

Note; not all votes counted yet.


Note that the Dem turnout was much lower as expected, but Republican turnout is also much lower which was NOT expected.

Posted by: Vic at November 07, 2012 09:36 AM (YdQQY)

27 I just Unfriended every gloater on Facebook. Feeling slight better already.

Posted by: Average Jen at November 07, 2012 09:37 AM (D9XwM)

28 Cards on the table. I'm a national security/economy voter. I don't give a fuck about gay marriage or abortion-sure as a small government leviathan I'm for gay rights and as a more or less catholic I'm against abortion...but all I care about is keeping this country safe and her influence abroad strong. Peace through strength. Which the dems never get. So I have no problem sucking up to Hispanics with amnesty to get their vote. Unless you guys want a third party that will never be able to implement policy and leave foreign affairs to the dems, it's time to start grubbing for Hispanic votes. Besides if the Marines are over 30% Hispanic, then y'all don't have to worry about America going away when her demographics change. Sorry for the rant, I just had to let it out among conservative folk, and my university wont do.

Posted by: Danny at November 07, 2012 09:37 AM (YZbNi)

29 #14
The "silver lining" here is that you've already got your open military service, and soon you'll have your marriage too.

At THAT point maybe gays can start looking after their wallets for a change.

Posted by: Looking closely at November 07, 2012 09:37 AM (6Q9g2)

30 Folks, something stinks.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 07, 2012 09:26 AM


Yet all of our "betters" in the so-called conservative ranks will tell us to keep ignoring the fraud, deceit and outright lies that have pushed our country over the edge.

They will blame Rmoney for being a "weak" candidate, and blame him for being a Mormon. We will be told to accept Choom Boy's "historic" reelection, and prepare for the future.

I suspect there were those on the losing side in WWII who said the same thing while the bombs were falling. We have "miracle weapons," folks, and victory can still be ours.

The truth is simpler: Democrats ignore the law, while we ignore law-breaking.

I'm sorry the good people will have to take the biggest hit while the entitlement crowd complete the destruction they began in the 1930s. But it is always so. Failure hits all, whether deserved or undeserved. There is no satisfaction in being right when you lose.

Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 07, 2012 09:37 AM (yKUrR)

31 "Hurricane Sandy influenced 42% in the exit polls.
Morons.

Remember:
90% of America is worthless, lazy and stupid."

Seriously, what do people think Obama even DID during Sandy?


Posted by: Bostonpat at November 07, 2012 09:37 AM (lejgy)

32 Chris Matthews loves destructive storms;

I'm so glad we had that storm last week because I think the storm was one of those things. No, politically I should say. Not in terms of hurting people. The storm brought in possibilities for good politics.

http://tinyurl.com/cjav47q

Posted by: kbdabear at November 07, 2012 09:37 AM (wwsoB)

33 "how bad did Romney lose hispanics?"

bad -- 27%...W got 44%, mac got 33%

Posted by: runner at November 07, 2012 09:38 AM (WR5xI)

34 Samwise: I'm evangelical. I know lots of them. All of us voted for Romney, some in lines > 2 hours to do so. You think we're a bunch of fucktards who run screaming at the sound of "Mormon", how do you think evangelicals like having a de facto Muslim as President?

Posted by: Ian S. at November 07, 2012 09:38 AM (OevbG)

35 ----

THIS DOESN’T EQUAL THAT:

1) Record Republican Enthusiasm

2) Record Republican Fundraising

3) Record GOTV

4) Record Early Voting

5) Record Republican Crowds

6) Record Independent Support

= Record Low Turnout?

How low was Republican turnout? Lower than 2004!

Folks, something stinks.
Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 07, 2012 09:26 AM

----

Yes, Bill Mitchell something does stink. The question is WHAT?

Was it massive, undetected voter fraud?

Did some GOP Christians stay home because of Romney's faith, as predicted by myself, William Jacobson, Jonathan Last and others?

What do you think occurred?

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 07, 2012 09:38 AM (SKX2R)

36 for pres clownshoes: eat sh*t and d*e

Posted by: wm flap at November 07, 2012 09:38 AM (lB/5N)

37 So Alan Grayson is in, and Allen West is out.

I no longer recognize this country.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 07, 2012 09:38 AM (UOM48)

38 Oh and I meant to say *libertarian against leviathan* Damn you automemory

Posted by: Danny at November 07, 2012 09:38 AM (YZbNi)

39
Yes, the entire system is headed for collapse. The best we could've hoped for was to mitigate the damages and the resultant loss of life.
Now, today, you must begin to lay the ground work for the future. You must begin to work locally,in your own neighborhoods, towns and counties, laying a foundation for the future of freedom.
Not only must you lay such a foundation, you must plan how to survive during the coming collapse - and the resultant wars - but alsohow to thrive, and how to save and even spread our philosophy of individual freedom and liberty.
Over the twenty years, the Republicans have screwed the pooch. You must also re-examine your own premises and even much of your own personal philosophies. There's a reason you keep losing the big elections and on the most important issues, and it has little to do with the MSM or even with your own opponents. It has to do with you. This is politics and economics, not religion, faith or even belief in an ideology. This is not what you want, when you want, just the way that you want. This is not a dream world. This is reality. You must learn to face it directly. Confront it, and make the best of it, no matter how ugly you might think it to be.

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at November 07, 2012 09:38 AM (WwR1j)

40 To cheer you up some, there's always the destruction of Israel. (Sigh.) <sarc>

Posted by: dfbaskwill at November 07, 2012 09:38 AM (71LDo)

41 14: A funny thing, when you vote based on being able to take it up the ass...

(Thanks for those of you who saw it clear. Maybe someday we can fix this mess, but not in my lifetime, I think.)

Posted by: Brother Cavil presents at November 07, 2012 09:38 AM (GBXon)

42 I am physically ill.

Posted by: Chris M at November 07, 2012 09:39 AM (4lyMJ)

43 Posted by: Bostonpat at November 07, 2012 09:34 AM (lejgy)
__
Please don't apologize, the attitude you describe has infected the entire nation. It is the result of a secularist attitude that results in narcissism and hubris. It's all around us, it has infected every race, creed, color, sex, sexual orientation and even some people's pets. Just look at our neighboring Governor Christie as Exhibit A.

Fuck Mitt Romney over on the eve of a crucial election? Why not, after all: it's all about him, he wasgriefstricken about the drowned rollercoasater.and looking to next year's governor race.

Posted by: kallisto at November 07, 2012 09:39 AM (jm/9g)

44 We can't really compete with that. I'll leave this to better minds, but
I can tell you that you probably won't like where we'll have to go to
win votes. Think amnesty.




I don't think pandering to amnesty gets us anything but more of the base sitting it out. The pundits this morning on Fox said Florida Hispanics were more and more Puerto Ricans and they vote overwhelmingly Democrat. So do the Mexicans. The only Hispanic group who support Republicans are ex Cubans.

Posted by: Vic at November 07, 2012 09:39 AM (YdQQY)

45
@12
Perry was my guy in the primaries but he probably would have lost by 10%

Posted by: Ben at November 07, 2012 09:39 AM (C2Y4l)

46 Sad that Mia Love lost too... Unreal.

I think that Gary Johnson hurt us as well in swing states...

Posted by: TFC3Tweets at November 07, 2012 09:40 AM (bgzAd)

47 >>> Yet all of our "betters" in the so-called conservative ranks will tell us to keep ignoring the fraud, deceit and outright lies that have pushed our country over the edge.

>>> They will blame Rmoney for being a "weak" candidate ...

I'm not blaming Romney for being a weak candidate. He ran a great campaign and was a strong debate. But there is an alternative explanation that makes sense. Are you even willing to consider it?

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 07, 2012 09:40 AM (SKX2R)

48 Since the inevitable circular firing squad is, well, inevitable, I'll go ahead and call some spades.

In '04 Republicans and Democrats matched each other exactly. That only was 8 years ago. Obviously if the D vs. R turnout last night was equal Romney would have won in a rout. Hell, if the split was "only" D + 3 Romney today would be the president-elect.

How could '12 have been a D + 6 election?

Let's go back to '04. Who surprisingly voted en masse that year? Evangelical Protestants. So much so the Democrat machine literally was shocked and flabbergasted, sort of how like we are today. Evangelicals in '04 voted in huge numbers. The Republican won. Despite having to overcome the media, the unions, the academe, etc.

What was the giant elephant in the room about this election cycle? Romney is a Mormon.

I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that Obama last evening was elected by the margin of evangelicals who stayed home and didn't vote specifically because of Romney's Mormonism. If that's the case they've gone ahead and destroyed an entire (secular) country on the basis of their sectarianism. Irony.

Posted by: Tsar Nicholas II at November 07, 2012 09:40 AM (r2PLg)

49 @43: It won't matter for the next governor's race. Ask Scott Brown how well pandering to the left worked for him.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 07, 2012 09:40 AM (OevbG)

50 Romney was a much, much better candidate than I ever thought he would be... Reagan could not have defeated this coalition of special interests.

Posted by: TFC3Tweets at November 07, 2012 09:41 AM (bgzAd)

51 'Unfortunately McCain lost by so much in 2008 and there was too much ground to be made up.'
I don't agree with this. Each election is different. They are not incremental.
It's not a matter of 'making up ground'. It is a matter of getting more votes than the other guy.
The reason why Obama got more votes is that more people agree with him. The US has crossed that point of no return where the republicans are going to have to reinvent themselves in a manner similar to a European ‘conservative’ party to survive and the decline of the West will continue now at an ever accelerating pace. There is not much time left.

Posted by: Steve D at November 07, 2012 09:41 AM (flNRe)

52 @48: Like I posted above, I know a lot of evangelicals and all of them were broken-glass voters. Because Romney may be a Mormon, but Obama is a de facto Muslim.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 07, 2012 09:41 AM (OevbG)

53 Posted by: Bostonpat at November 07, 2012 09:37 AM (lejgy)
__
He wore a preazy FEMA jacket and looked at the drowned rollercoaster and hugged a lady who was crying?

Chris Matthews actually said: THANK GOD FOR THE STORM.

Posted by: kallisto at November 07, 2012 09:41 AM (jm/9g)

54 Something has gone horribly, catastrophically, wrong.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 07, 2012 09:42 AM (ddb4x)

55
Allow me to apologize on behalf of gay people
Posted by: Bostonpat





On the upside, which group is going to be eviscerated by the coming tax storm? Middle to high income unmarried singles with no kids in blue state urban areas.

So, at least a bit of Schadenfreude there.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 07, 2012 09:42 AM (kdS6q)

56 there is undeniable fraud, but, turnout is key ..lots of days to sift through the data see where we can improve

Posted by: runner at November 07, 2012 09:42 AM (WR5xI)

57
Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 07, 2012 09:37 AM (yKUrR)
If they committed fraud to increase their total... its didn't work... the only way their fraud "worked" is if they have the polling stations programmed to "under-report" republican votes... all the "walking around money" didn't help them yesterday... we haven't necessarily created the permanent welfare class... but there were 5 million people yesterday who didn't care, who should have

Posted by: phreshone at November 07, 2012 09:42 AM (MAhUT)

58 Allan West's speech turned people off. Alan Grayson's turned people on. Message in there somewhere...

Posted by: M. Murcek at November 07, 2012 09:42 AM (GJUgF)

59 The people have spoken.

They can not part with the Leviathan.

What can I do?

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 75% more DOOM! at November 07, 2012 09:42 AM (xAtAj)

60 " ...it probably wouldn't be a bad idea get your Victory/Life Day
reservations on Endor in before tomorrow evening. And have your pudding
bath all warmed up and ready to go"

I hate to see pudding go to waste.


I hear Michael Moore's ass has a vacancy.

Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 09:42 AM (jQm+J)

61 Screw the Lucifer-worshiping Freemasons and their fake two party system. Screw the NWO.

Posted by: poots at November 07, 2012 09:43 AM (gDytV)

62 Amnesty? So several million illegals can vote Democrat legally now?

Brilliant!

I think the answer (at least, in part) is to actually have a candidate who *stands* for conservative values so the voters have a much sharper choice. As the old saying goes, give them a choice between a Democrat and a Democrat, and they'll pick the Democrat every time. And I say that as someone who thinks Romney ran about as good a campaign as was possible for a candidate like him to run. I like him personally now...he grew on me as the campaign went on. But, if you nominate a guy who can't even get 3-4 million McCain voters to show up and vote 4 years later, something is badly wrong with the types of nominees we're picking to run.

Posted by: davidinvirginia at November 07, 2012 09:43 AM (qEkGZ)

63 The United States of Free Stuff: free contraception, abortion all the way through the third trimester, taxing the productive, giving to the welfare queens and clueless hipsters, killing off the elderly, gutting the military, embracing whatever Feels Good at the time....

I'm sick to my stomach. I'm glad my parents are gone and can't witness this. My socialist sister can gloat all she wants. I'll never give her another dollar.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 07, 2012 09:43 AM (UOM48)

64 I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that
Obama last evening was elected by the margin of evangelicals who stayed
home and didn't vote specifically because of Romney's Mormonism. If
that's the case they've gone ahead and destroyed an entire (secular)
country on the basis of their sectarianism. Irony.

Posted by: Tsar Nicholas II at November 07, 2012 09:40 AM


I think you would lose that bet. Last night was about a party that says "here's your Free Shit" and a party that says "you have to earn what you get."

If you have a bill to pay, and one side says to pay up and the other counsels throwing the bill in the trash, who do you listen to? We got the answer last night.

Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 07, 2012 09:43 AM (yKUrR)

65 "No" to amnesty. Sorry. We can go around on this all day long.

They'd have to deliver Barry's head on a pike first. They haven't. My answer is "no".

Posted by: A. at November 07, 2012 09:43 AM (bm6ls)

66 Um .. you do realize that there are a sizable number of Americans who believe that "Mormonism" is a cult?

Again, an unforced error by the Stupid Party.

Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 09:43 AM (jQm+J)

67 >>> Romney was a much, much better candidate than I ever thought he would be... Reagan could not have defeated this coalition of special interests.
Posted by: TFC3Tweets at November 07, 2012 09:41 AM

So ... crickets?

http://minx.cc/?blog=86&post=334734#c19631966

You're not even willing to acknowledge the existence of a long-ago postulated theory which may be the answer to your own question, which you expressed being absolutely perplexed about?

Really?

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 07, 2012 09:44 AM (SKX2R)

68 I'm dead to you?! YOU are dead to me, pal! Enjoy the re-education camp! Springsteen rocks!

Posted by: Krispy Kreme Chris Christie at November 07, 2012 09:45 AM (ypzqs)

69 I posted this at the bottom of the "Let it Burn" thread, and if re-posting it here isn't cool, I apologize. But I really do want to know these things.
Can I ask a question? I've read here that my U.S. passport is my biggest liability, and that being a U.S. citizen is not a good value. Why do you say that? Seriously? And what happens if your renounce citizenship? Is it permanent? Clearly you have to get another passport to travel, right? And what is a go-green card? I've been living abroad for 13 of the past 15 years, with 2-3 years more coming, so it's not like it would change a whole lot for me. I would appreciate any real information about this.

Posted by: MikeinAmman at November 07, 2012 09:45 AM (JFcfR)

70 The lineup on TCM today is filled with Titles that seem appropriate for our dawning reality.





Ten Seconds to Hell, Yesterday's Enemy, Cash on Demand, The Savage Guns, Maniac, Chamber of Horrors.

Posted by: Lincolntf at November 07, 2012 09:45 AM (GeD0A)

71 "Folks, something stinks."

Bill, you've been hinting at it, and I'm hesitant to go there. But I'm suspicious too. I don't how it could be proved though.

Posted by: Dave in Fla at November 07, 2012 09:45 AM (JxIkO)

72 The accumulated filth of all their fiscal profligacy and nihilism will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' And we'll look down, and whisper 'No.'

Posted by: Rorschach at November 07, 2012 09:45 AM (5iuEW)

73 Not that it matters, but I payed a shit ton of money to immigrate LEGALLY.

No to Amnesty, no fucking way.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at November 07, 2012 09:45 AM (Cl95C)

74 I guess you people are just going to have to complain about Obama for
another for years. And then, if Hillary Clinton decides to run in
2016—or if she decides not to run, and after the economy runs its
course and improves—then the Democrats will run Andrew Cuomo (and if
the conservatives can’t get their act together, and become less of a
reactionary party), and he’ll win. And if Hillary runs in 2016, she’ll
win—and Andrew Cuomo after her. This means we’ll have at least 8 to 16
more years of a Democratic presidency.

Posted by: tadcf at November 07, 2012 09:45 AM (6yjdq)

75 No. No. No. No. Let it fucking burn. Keep fighting the good fight? Are you kidding me? That's what the assholes want you to do. Keep fighting the good fight just means keep paying the bills Dad, I'll start get better grades next semester.

We are a nation of crackheads that needs to hit bottom as quickly as possible; thus we'll rebound higher.

Posted by: Shirley at November 07, 2012 09:46 AM (U4ceb)

76

Oh and the Supreme Court. Yes the Supreme Court. Scalia is 76, Breyer
and Ginsburg are 74, and worst of all Justice Kennedy is 76. The same
Justice Kennedy who voted against Obamacare and is the swing vote on the
court. If he passes or retires...well say goodbye to all the progress
we made on gun rights and to some extent on property rights.




THIS is what scares me the most. Without the Supreme Court, dictators can do what they want, see Venezuela.
Executive orders, etc will by pass Congress.

They said this might be the last election, and they could very well be right.








Posted by: Al Franken at November 07, 2012 09:46 AM (wR+pz)

77 "Regardless, we're going to have to find a way to cobble together coalitions to win elections in the future. The Democrats are the party of free stuff. We can't really compete with that. I'll leave this to better minds, but I can tell you that you probably won't like where we'll have to go to win votes. Think amnesty."
The Democrats can only be the party of free stuff for now. Eventually, (and I'm thinking 1 or 2 years, tops) that is going to crash hard on reality.

Posted by: Advo at November 07, 2012 09:46 AM (7vbG1)

78 Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 07, 2012 09:43 AM (UOM4

----

Yup.

We are the party of "work hard.... eat your peas.... clean your room"

The country is now "free shit for you.... do want you want... stay up til 2:00am on a school night."


Tipping point indeed.


Posted by: fixerupper at November 07, 2012 09:46 AM (yzX2R)

79 You know, everyone's is pointing fingers at the evangelicals, but if Catholics had shown up to vote in their impressive numbers in swing states, we would have seen a different result.

I'm an observant Roman Catholic. Most in my faith community don't give a shit about the bishops, about religious freedom, about the traditions and history of our Church, or anything that would take away from their feeling of being special because they voted on behalf of the little guy. Again: narcissism and hubris.

Posted by: kallisto at November 07, 2012 09:46 AM (jm/9g)

80 It's a makers vs takers world. You don't HAVE to be a taker, but you don't HAVE to be (past hand to mouth) a maker either. The Taggart / Reardon / Galt mythos of "simply gotta do, it's in my nature" is DEAD!

Posted by: M. Murcek at November 07, 2012 09:46 AM (GJUgF)

81 Um .. you do realize that there are a sizable number of Americans who believe that "Mormonism" is a cult? Posted by: Gerry

Um, an even larger number of Americans don't have any idea what Mormonism is.

Ass.

Posted by: burned cut-loop at November 07, 2012 09:46 AM (jo069)

82 You actually have to ask "why the low turnout?" You are that fucking dense? Think back to what people were telling during primary season. You put up "The Electable One". You were wrong. A chunk of your base cleaned the fucking garage yesterday because your plan sucked.

Posted by: SurferDoc at November 07, 2012 09:47 AM (6H6FZ)

83 Now that BO has won, how about we do the same thing the left did in 2004 when Bush won: take pictures of ourselves holding cardboard signs with the message "Sorry, World" and create a massive collage on the Internet?

On a serious note, if we as conservatives can't win when the economy is as bad as it is now, when and what can we win?

Posted by: JoeyPalmTree at November 07, 2012 09:47 AM (lhQRS)

84 My socialist sister can gloat all she wants. I'll never give her another dollar.

Tell her she and Uncle Sugar are on their own. Good for you.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at November 07, 2012 09:47 AM (vbh31)

85 @71: Please stop this. We lost fair and square. Any thoughts of fraud or cheating simply means we have failed to learn the lesson of this undeniable defeat.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at November 07, 2012 09:47 AM (Cl95C)

86
I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that Obama last evening was elected by the margin of evangelicals who stayed home and didn't vote specifically because of Romney's Mormonism.

Posted by: Tsar Nicholas II





If that we're true, you would expect to see a narrower margin in the results from heavily evangelical Red states. That doesn't appear to be the case.

Now, Blue states where the moderate Republicans nest.....

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 07, 2012 09:48 AM (kdS6q)

87 The storm brought in possibilities for good politics.

Ah, the retardation.

Let's see, the storm allowed Barry to circumvent regular procedures and "cut through the red tape" of a sclerotic and ill-prepared bureaucracy in order to release whateverthefuck kind of aid which leaves Staten Island still FUBAR.

Then the Compassionate Left assures us what we need is MORE permanent sclerotic and ill-prepared bureaucracy, so that some future "leader" can again circumvent the rules under which it operates (rules designed to offer a modicum of protection against corruption), and look like a hero or something.

Posted by: Waterhouse at November 07, 2012 09:48 AM (RsSRf)

88 I'm going to go out on a limb here and say Tsar Nicholas II's comment is the EXACT reason the Romney-Ryan ticket lost this election.

There are other factors, but this is THE factor, the big one.

He explained it brilliantly too. Anyone scratching there head about how could this have happened might want to read it. It's here:
http://minx.cc/?blog=86&post=334734#c19632031

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 07, 2012 09:48 AM (SKX2R)

89 'I don't understand how W got 62.0 million in 2004, McLame got 59.9 million in 2008 and Romney only got 57.0 million in 2012.'
The totals are not in yet.

Posted by: Steve D at November 07, 2012 09:48 AM (flNRe)

90 Um .. you do realize that there are a sizable number of Americans who believe that "Mormonism" is a cult?

How do they feel about Islamism then?

If that's how it went down, then I hope that bible thumpers are good and happy that they've ensured the re-election of someone who is not just "pro-choice" but who is actively, passionately committed to the murder of unborn children as a moral obligation.

Posted by: VJay at November 07, 2012 09:48 AM (q5NFp)

91 There is just something terribly wrong with a people that will elect a low functioning retard like Alan Grayson. I really hate people right now.

Posted by: jewells45 says Romney wins in a landslide at November 07, 2012 09:48 AM (1hNQS)

92 I hope the house just nukes everything from orbit
No debt ceiling hike, let the bush tax cuts expire, let's accelerate over the cliff.

We can't worry about holding the house in 2 years, let's give everyone what they voted for.

I am having serious doubts that the GOP in int's current incarnation is capable of winning a national election. I think the scales may have tipped.

The supreme ct is the worst thing about this, I think we're looking at a permanent liberal court at the end of this term.

Posted by: dr. shatterhand at November 07, 2012 09:49 AM (n/ogz)

93 I'm going to get me an Obamaphone, so I can keep tabs on my investments in the Caymans.

Posted by: Roy - I am John Galt at November 07, 2012 09:49 AM (VndSC)

94 Who's to say with 4 more years, SCOAMF won't ignore the two-term limit and just run?

We are truly in uncharted waters and my knees just fucking buckled at the thought of it all.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 07, 2012 09:49 AM (vCK/R)

95 The essence of the election is this -

Independents stayed home, minorities turned out.

Mitt was supposed to fill the pews with Independents and that didn't happen. Why is something we'll discuss at length I'm sure.

My opinion is that Independents suck and they tuned out, but that's partly the GOP's fault. Hammering on Unemployment and gas prices got repetitive.

We needed a character election.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 09:49 AM (sgNEe)

96 I just don't get it. I'm in total disbelief right now.

Posted by: Jack Burton at November 07, 2012 09:49 AM (L+4Fu)

97 Reagan could not have defeated this coalition of special interests.

Reagan won against JC with just a little more then 50% of the vote. The Independent got about 7% while JC got around 40% of the vote.

Romney got damn near 50% of the vote.

I have no point other then Reagan *might* have been able to beat Obama and that Romney did a pretty good job.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 07, 2012 09:49 AM (feFL6)

98 Guess I better change my nic.

Posted by: jewells45 at November 07, 2012 09:49 AM (1hNQS)

99 94 good question.

Posted by: teebone at November 07, 2012 09:50 AM (YtLSL)

100 Todd Aiken + MainStream Media

Richard Murdock + MainStream Media

Hurricane Sandy + Chris Cristie + MainStream Media

Any Questions?




Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at November 07, 2012 09:50 AM (ovpNn)

101 I will say that anyone wanting to be a GOP Presidential candidate in the future should start learning Spanish now. You want to be fluent in time for 2016.

Posted by: Dave in Fla at November 07, 2012 09:50 AM (JxIkO)

102 I think I'm going to start watching that Revolution series on TV.

And buy a crossbow.

Posted by: Roy - I am John Galt at November 07, 2012 09:50 AM (VndSC)

103 [update] Let's wait for the analysis to come in before we start blaming RINOs, Conversatives, Pro-Lifers, etc etc. We don't yet know who stayed home or voted for Obama over Romney.

How about we blame the half of the country that can't rub two brain cells together and imagine where this is all headed?

Posted by: red sweater at November 07, 2012 09:51 AM (CUi62)

104 I hope every coal miner in PA and OH loses his job. Then I hope their wives leave them because they can't support their families. The I hope they die in a windmill explosion.

Posted by: Tim at November 07, 2012 09:51 AM (xq7pr)

105 "101 I will say that anyone wanting to be a GOP Presidential candidate in the future should start learning Spanish now. You want to be fluent in time for 2016."

W was fluent in Spanish.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 09:51 AM (sgNEe)

106 102 "Revolution" is even more stupid than the GOP. Don't insult yourself.

Posted by: SurferDoc at November 07, 2012 09:51 AM (6H6FZ)

107 There are two competing philosophies in the country. One believes in freedom, one believes in getting free stuff. One believes in the power of the individual, one believe in the power of the state. These philosophies are irreconcilable.

It is time for a divorce.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at November 07, 2012 09:51 AM (JxMoP)

108 @95: The problem was that any attempt at a character election would've branded raaaaacist.

Someone on Insty made a good point: the GOP fat cats who financed PAC ads should've just bought some media outlets instead, and then made their news departments report Benghazi et al.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 07, 2012 09:52 AM (OevbG)

109 >>>94 Who's to say with 4 more years, SCOAMF won't ignore the two-term limit and just run?
We are truly in uncharted waters and my knees just fucking buckled at the thought of it all.

I was actually predicting that if he lost, some academics and assorted MSM prophets would argue in favor of him refusing to turn over power and just declare himself Emperor.

I wasn't being sarcastic. You know there are fascistic dipshits like that on the left who really think President-for-Life is a grand idea.

Posted by: El Kabong at November 07, 2012 09:52 AM (JycCV)

110 @104

Stop being easy on them.

Posted by: JDTAY at November 07, 2012 09:52 AM (a0nis)

111 Me too JackBurton. Me too. This is was NOT supposed to happen. My future looks pretty bleak and I was hoping to spend my golden years happily sipping marguaritas in Arizona. Ain't gonna happen now.

Posted by: jewells45 at November 07, 2012 09:52 AM (1hNQS)

112 Samwise- What do YOU think about Christians? Not what do they think or not think about our Muslim POTUS. You seem to have an obsession with them.

Posted by: Baldy at November 07, 2012 09:52 AM (opS9C)

113 Evangelicals? Could they be a factor? Did they stay home?

If it turns out they did.. well.. fuck it.

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at November 07, 2012 09:52 AM (f9c2L)

114 We needed a character election.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 09:49 AM


We just just HAD a "character election." What we learned is that character doesn't matter. Free Stuff and skin color matter.

Romney could have been Jesus Christ reincarnated and he would have lost. Affirmative action is the path to victory.

Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 07, 2012 09:52 AM (yKUrR)

115 What the fuck happened to you guys? We elected Deb Fischer and returned Lee Terry to Congress. Romney got all five of our electoral votes. Was Deb Fischer the only republican to win a Senate seat last night?

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 07, 2012 09:53 AM (BuSM8)

116 So the Jesus freaks prefer a commie to a guy with magic underpants. Good to know. We are so fucked.

Posted by: schizoid at November 07, 2012 09:53 AM (mnpQF)

117 Two stats I saw on Twitter that sum things up:

- Romney won voters age 30+ by 1.8 million. He lost voters 18-30 by 5.1 million. FIVE POINT ONE MILLION. The under-30 crowd is all but lost to us because they are totally conditioned in the ways of gay "marriage," "reproductive rights" (abortion on demand, free contraception, consequence-free sex), and "making the rich pay their fair share." They learn it in the schools and in college.

- Obama got 93% of the black vote. He got about 95% in 2008. So much for gay marriage being a wedge issue. Melanin is thicker than issues, but remember, it's only racist for whites to vote racially. It's OK for everybody else.

Posted by: Moose4 at November 07, 2012 09:53 AM (W15Fy)

118 >>>102 I think I'm going to start watching that Revolution series on TV.

You mean "Dollar Store Version of the Hunger Games?"

Stop watching this shit. Boycott all the major networks.

Posted by: El Kabong at November 07, 2012 09:53 AM (JycCV)

119 "W was fluent in Spanish."

Yep, and it made a difference.

Posted by: Dave in Fla at November 07, 2012 09:53 AM (JxIkO)

120 Let the mother fucker burn to the ground.

only way to be rid of the takers.


Posted by: jeremiah God Damn Barack Obama the Mother Fucking SCoaMF wright at November 07, 2012 09:53 AM (ovpNn)

121 1. it was not evangelicals
2. what happened to zero's 10-13 million votes ?

too early to say what happened....but the fact that W got 44% of hispanic vote and Romney 27% should be considered before yelling at evangelicals

Posted by: runner at November 07, 2012 09:54 AM (WR5xI)

122 @113: The results from evangelical Southern red states don't look to support that theory.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 07, 2012 09:54 AM (OevbG)

123 Second terms are the Star Wars prequels of presidencies.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at November 07, 2012 09:54 AM (gznAu)

124 2 reads I'd highly recommend. Companion pieces if you will:

http://sultanknish.blogspot.com "Game Called"

Wikipedia - Cloward Piven strategy

Posted by: Ben Hale at November 07, 2012 09:54 AM (iyRtB)

125 There's some really depressing talk on our side today and then there's some really stupid shit being said. The depressing talk is understandable (doom, collapse, unplugging), but the stupid shit (Impeachment!, ditch SoCons!) is...well...stupid shit.


And I'm not even close to a SoCon.


Circular Firing Squad - DISMISSED.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 07, 2012 09:54 AM (uD2fR)

126 Akin and Mourdock energized the social leftists more than we expected

Chris Christie's butthurt over being passed over for VP and cutting off his nose to spite his face by giving a public blowjob to TFG. His praise of Obama for standing around in a jacket and looking presidential buttressed the MSM's facade that TFG's FEMA was doing much better than Bush's

Gas prices high but not rising significantly. People have gotten used to 3.50 a gallon as the new normal

Obamacare hasn't taken effect yet. People still think they're going to get free visits to the doctor

The MBM has fooled enough people into thinking that the economy is "recovering" but TFG needs more time to "undo Bush's damage"

Too many low information voters who know all about The Kardashians, Honey Boo-Boo, Twilight, and Glee, but don't know about Solyndra, Fast Furious, and believe that Benghazi was caused by a very obscure Youtube video

Candy Crowley sandbagging Mitt with a lie during the debate, which shook him up and took Benghazi off the table

These are just some of the reasons ...



Posted by: kbdabear at November 07, 2012 09:54 AM (wwsoB)

127 "119 "W was fluent in Spanish."

Yep, and it made a difference."

Yeah, I was agreeing with you.

The future is more religion, not less. The left hates it. Minorities like it. We go there we might stand a chance.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 09:55 AM (sgNEe)

128 So now I have to ride my motorcycle around the state of Colorado knowing more of my fellow drivers are stoned on marijuana.

FORWARD

Posted by: Jones in CO at November 07, 2012 09:55 AM (8sCoq)

129 @120

Yeah, America needs to seriously crash before it can go to rehab. Bring on QEeleventy.

Posted by: JDTAY at November 07, 2012 09:55 AM (a0nis)

130
can tell you that you probably won't like where we'll have to go to win votes - amnesty
-----
Worked in 2008.
-----
Here's a gem from the Teas Dem chmn regarding Ted Cruz (via Huff Post):

“His last name may be Cruz, but there is nothing, not an ounce, about
the way he thinks and the way he has led his life that in any way is
similar to Hispanics in the state of Texas and all across America … Ted
Cruz is as much Hispanic … as Tom Cruise.”

Posted by: RioBravo at November 07, 2012 09:55 AM (eEfYn)

131 Well to look on the bright side at least that old lady at the Rosebud Nursing Home can stay home and play bingo today instead of going out to burn the motherfucker down.

Posted by: kallisto at November 07, 2012 09:55 AM (jm/9g)

132 Well, our son said if General Pissypants was re-elected he was leaving the Marines this fall.

And he's not alone. Let the entitled class send their worthless spawn to fight and die in Barry's next war.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 07, 2012 09:55 AM (UOM48)

133 The Ameerican people have risen up, and declared, with a mighty shout:

" We want to be Greece!"

Posted by: West at November 07, 2012 09:56 AM (1Rgee)

134 Obama lost votes among women, particularly married women (who are still technically women). That disproves Ace's theory that this election was about rape quotes.

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at November 07, 2012 09:56 AM (Rwrs+)

135 Bill, you've been hinting at it, and I'm hesitant to go there. But I'm suspicious too. I don't how it could be proved though.


Posted by: Dave in Fla at November 07, 2012 09:45 AM (JxIkO)
I mentioned this on your blog a few days ago. Honestly, how hard would it be to hack into the software for the electronic voting machines, but a algorithm in that, say, skims 1 in 25 or 30 Romney votes off and adds them to Obama's total. You end up showing the same, correct number of people having voted in a give precinct, but the subtotals are different. It wouldn't take much - you wouldn't want to steal many for fear of raising suspicions - but just a few in an election like this would do. (shrug) That said, I don't know that there was any more fraud this time than usual (there's always some, and almost all of it by Dems), but that idea sure would be tempting to the Dems to try and I do know various people have successfully hacked into voting machine software before just to prove how vulnerable they are. It's something Instapundit harps on all the time..about going back to paper ballots and making photo ID mandatory, etc. It would explain all the anecdotal evidence of high turnout in various GOP areas that doesn't seem to have translated to high GOP vote totals. Honestly, right now, I'm in the "give us free shit" people outnumbering the producers at the polls camp, but the possibility of something like I describe above surely exists and needs to be guarded against. Well, if the GOP is actually ever going to try to win another national election, it does anyway.


Posted by: davidinvirginia at November 07, 2012 09:56 AM (qEkGZ)

136 In 2004 evangelicals won us Ohio. In 2008 Palin, who wasnt only an ecomomic reformer, but a social conservative and a symbol for the pro-life movement as the mother of a Down child. What did we offer these people in 2012? Our campaign was "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" and we nominated a mormon. When social conservative issues came up we treated them like distractions, we didnt stand our ground, we didnt even fight. I wouldnt be surprised at all if the lack of mobilization of the Saintorum/SoCon vote did us in.

Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 07, 2012 09:56 AM (bonPh)

137 Math are hard:

13 million people LESS voted this year than in 2008...

and early voters and election day voters reported unprecedented long lines at the polls.


I am stumped.

Posted by: RondinellaMamma at November 07, 2012 09:57 AM (53riN)

138 Things I learned last night:
1. Calling someone else racist works
2. Free stuff will win over not free stuff every time
3. Libertarianism is dead. It presupposes personal reliance. Personal reliance aren't what we're about anymore
4. Broken glass republicans will vote unless you can't find them
5. the polls are right.
6. Both parties internal polls were off in Florida and NC.
7. Fuck this country. Math says its toast. Start prepositioning for what rises from its ashes.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 07, 2012 09:57 AM (t06LC)

139 Look, there's no other way to see this. We laid out the economic argument, showed the math, the whole nine yards. Folks ignored it and voted for the bennies, even with the cliff ahead of them. Why? Because that's the culture now.

The political fight rises from the cultural fight. Abandoning the latter means doom in the former. Period.

It's time to change how we go about this. It's the formula that created this mess--rework it and it's our only hope to ever get back out.

Posted by: Brother Cavil presents at November 07, 2012 09:58 AM (GBXon)

140 Well, our son said if General Pissypants was re-elected he was leaving the Marines this fall.
And he's not alone. Let the entitled class send their worthless spawn to fight and die in Barry's next war.


My brother is going to get out too. The guys he knows are superpissed about Benghazi. The writing is on the wall and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people starting getting out.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at November 07, 2012 09:58 AM (JxMoP)

141 Think amnesty.

Yeah, because fifteen million more Democrats will really help us win next time.

But forget that, at current rates legal immigration is going to add some 5 million or so new voters to the rolls by 2016. How are they going to vote? Remember all those news stories about how popular Romney was internationally? Me neither.

Posted by: Matt at November 07, 2012 09:58 AM (Aqc5i)

142 It is time for a divorce.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater

Past time. Irreconcilable differences.

Posted by: cool breeze at November 07, 2012 09:58 AM (hx/td)

143 Political memes and other stuff that has to go away:

America is a center right country
"It's the economy, stupid."
National Review
Dick Morris

Posted by: Jones in CO at November 07, 2012 09:58 AM (8sCoq)

144 He lost voters 18-30 by 5.1 million. FIVE POINT ONE MILLION.

People who either;
1. Never had a job
2. Are still in school or college
3. Have a menial low-paying 'first' job

How in the hell do you appeal to that faction? Did a whisper campaign
that Obama's gonna pay our student loans off occur?

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 07, 2012 09:58 AM (feFL6)

145 America is dead. Long live America!

Posted by: RioBravo at November 07, 2012 09:58 AM (eEfYn)

146 FWIW, I'm in rural SC, which is probably about as evangelical as anywhere, and I didn't notice any gap in enthusiasm this cycle compared to 2008.

In 08 McCain took it over Obama, 1,034,896 to 862,449, or 53.9-44.9%. Total votes 1,897,345.

Romney just took it here 1,005,870 to 799,026, or 55-43.7%. Total votes 1,804,896.

So in short, the total SC turnout was 95% of the 2008 turnout. I don't think that's unusual for a re-election effort.

If you look at turnout by party breakdown, the GOP pulled 97% of its McCain vote; the Dems took only 92.6% of their '08 Obama vote.

And note that Romney lost SC to Gingrich in the GOP primaries, the first time in 30+ years that the eventual GOP nominee didn't take SC. So its not like SC was enamored by Romney six months ago.

The point is, at least in SC, I don't see evidence that Romney repelled evangelicals or any other particular bloc. Overall turnout was down, and Romney took a significantly bigger piece of it than McCain. If you're going to make that sort of assumption, I think the only fair conclusion is that Romney had MORE appeal to evangelicals than McCain did.




Posted by: Looking closely at November 07, 2012 09:59 AM (PwGfd)

147 I am of a mind today to believe that the Reagan interregnum was just that. A brief ray of sunshine before the fall into darkness. America has been on an inexorable slide toward socialism and poverty since about 1925.


I am 54 years old and worked in my first campaign when I was 13. I served Ronald Reagan for 8 years. I have given 40 years of my life to the Republican Party, to fighting for smaller government, and more freedom. But it is now crystal clear to be that it was all a big fucking waste of time.

Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 09:59 AM (qe2/V)

148 Democrats hate white people.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 07, 2012 10:00 AM (ZPrif)

149 You think we're fucked? How'd you like to be a resident of Tel Aviv this morning?

FORWARD

Posted by: Jones in CO at November 07, 2012 10:00 AM (8sCoq)

150 107
There are two competing philosophies in the country. One believes in
freedom, one believes in getting free stuff. One believes in the power
of the individual, one believe in the power of the state. These
philosophies are irreconcilable.


There is a third. Mine.

I hate everything; there is not a single thing I don't hate.

Posted by: Shirley at November 07, 2012 10:00 AM (U4ceb)

151 Who's to say with 4 more years, SCOAMF won't ignore the two-term limit and just run?



We are truly in uncharted waters and my knees just fucking buckled at the thought of it all.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 07, 2012 09:49 AM (vCK/R)

Who's to say he'll even bother with the running part if he doesn't feel like it?

Posted by: davidinvirginia at November 07, 2012 10:00 AM (qEkGZ)

152 Fuck it, burn this shithole country to the ground.

Posted by: twoslaps at November 07, 2012 10:00 AM (pbUEP)

153 >>>How in the hell do you appeal to that faction? Did a whisper campaign
that Obama's gonna pay our student loans off occur?

That wouldn't surprise me in the least. It's their #1 concern and probably just assumed that Obama was going to be the guy to do it.

Posted by: El Kabong at November 07, 2012 10:00 AM (JycCV)

154
"The Walking Dead" is reality. Who new? Maybe "Red Dawn" will be prophetic.

Posted by: c6dave at November 07, 2012 10:00 AM (I08eI)

155 Yes, the system will collapse, right after the locusts confiscate everything of value that any of us has or ever will have and hand it over to their politically favored cronies.

It's not quite as bad the Khmer Rouge rounding up everyone who wears eyeglasses, but it will be plenty bad.

Posted by: navybrat at November 07, 2012 10:00 AM (cAlrv)

156
Well, I know who voted for Osocialist. About 50 million people receiving food stamps and the like.

Romney was wrong about the 47%. Its over 50% now. It matters not who we would have nominated or will in the future or how they run the campaign. If you try to outbid them, you become worse than them (from a conservative point of view).

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 07, 2012 10:00 AM (PHb2k)

157 >Posted by: Shirley at November 07, 2012 10:00 AM (U4ceb)





Mom?

Posted by: Jones in CO at November 07, 2012 10:01 AM (8sCoq)

158 Time for that divorce on irreconcilable differences

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at November 07, 2012 10:01 AM (R8hU8)

159 We can only start to recover when we reach bottom ... that as not happened yet, but it will, and it will be ugly....epic.

Posted by: ET at November 07, 2012 10:01 AM (s72/N)

160 I don't want to hear ONE lib/Democrat/taker orwhatever bitch when it all starts going to shit (which will be January 1). The money will run out. The money is going to start leaving the country tout de suite.
ThankGod I don't have kids. That's all I can say.

Posted by: bicentennialguy at November 07, 2012 10:01 AM (RUocD)

161 117 Posted by: Moose4 at November 07, 2012 09:53 AM (W15Fy) -_________ You do realize that many people get more conservative as they grow up? I did. Young people voted for Reagan, though, IIRC, which is an outlier.

Posted by: Baldy at November 07, 2012 10:01 AM (opS9C)

162 Black people really, really hate white people.
Black people are the most racist ethnic group in America.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 07, 2012 10:01 AM (ZPrif)

163 Essentially the brown and black people teamed up with the single women to take more money from white married people.

Posted by: Whitehall at November 07, 2012 10:02 AM (1+mGd)

164 I'm not convinced that this election wasn't won as a result of massive fraud.
Think about it - there were, what, twenty different types of more or less independently derived data that all pointed in the same general direction - everything from polls to enthusiasm to % of independents to % of white voters, etc. etc.

All pointing the SAME WAY.

And they were all wrong? Really? So even though several polls all said PA was very close, and BOTH campaigns were treating the state as an obvious proze to be won, the state went to Obama by 9 points?
Something doesn't connect here.

Now, what was the one area where the GOP did reasonably well last night? The House races. We won a few, lost a few more, probably have a net -5 to -10 in aggregate once the dust settles. But about what we expected, I think.
What's different between House races, and Senate and the Presidential races?

Senate and Presidential races are statewide races, which means they are much easier to defraud. They are more susceptible to boxes of filled out ballots suddenly appearing in Philly or Milwaukee or Cleveland, at the behest of the Dem-run urban political machines. It's actually harder to defraud House elections, since most of these districts are NOT in hard-core Dem-urban areas, and hence are much less likely to be liable to massive defrauding.

Something to think about.

Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 07, 2012 10:02 AM (+inic)

165 Lookit that DJIA, Clarence, you Obama dick-sucking fuck.

Posted by: Waterhouse at November 07, 2012 10:02 AM (RsSRf)

166 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 07, 2012 10:02 AM (/eBe8)

167 2016 is irrelevant.

The Left has essentially made the Leviathan too big to kill.

We can win every election for the next 20-30 years but the combination of leftists on the court and the bureaucracy - and those now calling what they get from it "rights" - has, I fear, torpedoed us forever.

Goodbye. Signing off from Corregidor.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at November 07, 2012 10:02 AM (vCK/R)

168 "152 Fuck it, burn this shithole country to the ground."

It won't be the looters who die in the fires. It will be the taxpayers who aren't producing enough goodies for them.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 10:02 AM (sgNEe)

169 I think we have a mandate...

If the ditherer-in-chief wants you dead, you will be dead.

Four Dead In Benghazi.

Dead Border Patrol Agent.

Complicit Media




Posted by: Watergate Had No Body Count at November 07, 2012 10:02 AM (xLOnw)

170 I used to not like Tool because of the apocalypse shit in Enima/Enigma.

Makes more sense to me now.

FLUSH IT DOWN.

Posted by: twoslaps at November 07, 2012 10:03 AM (pbUEP)

171 Not that it matters, but I payed a shit ton of money to immigrate LEGALLY.



No to Amnesty, no fucking way.

Posted by: Joffen, fucking sunshine patriot at November 07, 2012 09:45 AM



See, that's the thing I don't get. I know people who have immigrated from Canada and from Mexico legally. They paid lawyers and fees and followed the rules and couldn't even go to their former countries for a visit for years. They are all opposed to amnesty. They realize it makes them chumps if someone can walk across a border somewhere and just get handed what they worked so hard to attain. I guess, that's it. You do not value things for which you do not pay.

Posted by: Hannibal Lecter at November 07, 2012 10:03 AM (bAGA/)

172 The under-30 crowd is all but lost to us because they are totally
conditioned in the ways of gay "marriage," "reproductive rights"
(abortion on demand, free contraception, consequence-free sex), and
"making the rich pay their fair share." They learn it in the schools and
in college.


Probably why a Romney victory would have been not much more than a finger in the dyke, in a manner of speaking. One would hope that eventually they'll figure out that they've doomed themselves, but if we use the Euros as a model, that's unlikely to happen. They've chosen their poison.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at November 07, 2012 10:03 AM (vbh31)

173 Where are you, Clarence, to assure me that the economy, and the stock market, are going gangbusters thanks to your God Emperor?

Posted by: Waterhouse at November 07, 2012 10:03 AM (RsSRf)

174 Yes, it's sad, but the GOP needs to institute a "no Mormons" rule.

And, no. "paper ballots" don't solve anything. It's how the votes are COUNTED, not marked.

Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 10:03 AM (jQm+J)

175 if we all just hold hands and sing "we are the world, we are the children", everything will be fine.

But you must have a Hispanic on one side and a black on the other, and one must be gay and/or female, or you will be shot on sight.

Obama is ready to work together with you ... but you must submit to Him. (He learned that from Muhammad). /sarc

Posted by: Illini bill at November 07, 2012 10:03 AM (iogmr)

176 >>> Samwise- What do YOU think about Christians? Not what do they think or not think about our Muslim POTUS. You seem to have an obsession with them.

I love many of them. I loved George W. Bush, Reagan, H.W. Bush, and certainly many non-politician Christians, including personally as friends and romantically.

I've also loved many Mormons, including Mitt Romney as a candidate, friends and romantically.

While going through religious phases in my life, including being baptised Catholic, and later flirting with both evangelical Christianity and Mormonism, I finally could not force myself to believe what I didn't feel was true, despite the fine people in those faiths whom I loved, and I became an atheist.

But this isn't about my background, although perhaps it lends itself to be able to think more freely about these issues since I've had more perspectives, however fleetingly.

This is about during the primaries I, William Jabson, Jonathan Last, and many others thought that Romney and Huntsman would not be electable because some Christians wouldn't be motivated enough to support a Mormon.

I personally have no problem with supporting a Mormon or Christian who agrees with me on essential policy goals like a strong defense, minimal regulation, and capitalist economics.

Does that answer your question to your satisfaction, Baldy?

I made a prediction. It's either come true or not, but it just so happens to provide an explanation for why Romney's turnout would be lower in a year the GOP seemed so excited.

You are the one who seems to have an obsession with defending Christians writ large rather than looking honestly at whether a segment of GOP Christians -- who may be otherwise fine and decent people -- did not turn out for the GOP's first Mormon on the top of the ticket.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 07, 2012 10:03 AM (SKX2R)

177 No one ever started a riot or got tarred and feathered for the sake of the middle. The middle is not really a position. It is a lack of one.

Posted by: Cackfinger at November 07, 2012 10:03 AM (CCHli)

178 >>>I hate everything; there is not a single thing I don't hate.




Posted by: Shirley at November 07, 2012 10:00 AM<<<<

I think I love you.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 07, 2012 10:04 AM (PHb2k)

179 We have only one bulwark left, the states themselves. Despite losing WI om a national level, the gains we madein the midterms were real. We even managed to squeak out a few extra R'sat out State Senate level giving us a very strong state government. Now we have enough majorities to pass real legislation to get rid of our corrupt Government Accountability Board and get things like Voter Id and the like passed.
THIS is rhe only way we will get things passed that can help us stop the moochers and looters from voting. We have a very narrow windows of oppertunity here as those types are only voting during the presidential elections. The low information voter comes out of the woodwork looking for their hand outs then. All we can is make our red states stronger during the. id terms when the moochers and looters don't vote. If we ca get sensable local law passed at that level we might, MIGHT stem the tide of bleeding.

Posted by: Janir at November 07, 2012 10:04 AM (j3JxV)

180 Not at all surprised in 10 mil drop in SCOAMF votes, (actually surprised it wasn't a bigger drop).

But I can't comprehend how Romney got 3 mil less than McStain, especially considering the dire economic circumstances.
That just doesn't pass the smell test.

But if that is in fact accurate, it is an indictment against the GOP for sure.

You would really have to think really hard before donating (tighter) money in the future to that political entity again.

If the hearings on the Benghazi fiasco now go nowhere, it is a sign that we are living in an oblivious, third world style society replete with a supplicant and corrupted faux media.

Posted by: ontherocks at November 07, 2012 10:04 AM (aZ6ew)

181 There is just something terribly wrong with a people that will elect a low functioning retard like Alan Grayson. I really hate people right now.Posted by: jewells45 says Romney wins in a landslide at November 07, 2012 09:48 AM (1hNQS)------ ------ -------- ------- -------- ------- ------- -------- ------Osceola County, East Orlandoand eastern Lake Co.Yeah. Those are my peeps.The district is now 41% Hispanic and Grayson managed toget rid of John Quinones and replace him withTodd Long.Democrat picking the Republican as McCaskill did Akin. It's not a good formula for us.Not that Quinones would have won a blue district, but he would have made it competitive. Stuck with the most clownish buffoon in US congressional history again. Yay!

Posted by: Beagle at November 07, 2012 10:04 AM (sOtz/)

182 And what do we say when they say "well, Obama inherited a bad economy"?

Yeah, from HIMSELF.

I just had to send an email to my Active Duty Navy Son.... appologizing to him for my generation...

My Parents were in the Greatest Generation.... I am in the Stupidest.

Posted by: Romeo13 at November 07, 2012 10:04 AM (lZBBB)

183 The Left has essentially made the Leviathan too big to kill.

O rly?

Posted by: $16 trillion (and growing) National Debt at November 07, 2012 10:05 AM (5iuEW)

184 Everyone needs to get off the evangelical Christian staying at home kick. SC is one of the most religious States in the union and they went overwhelmingly for Romney. The answer is very simple and even dumb ass BOR got it right last night.



50% of the country wants free shit (and pays no taxes). Until everyone has skin in the game this shit will continue. And that will take an Art V convention.


Posted by: Vic at November 07, 2012 10:05 AM (YdQQY)

185 Hate the Diebold electronic voting machine system and no paper trail. Best option is paper ballots and scanners. Though the D's will always find ways to fraud the system.

Can not accept elections results. Never, ever, ever were so many who voted for Obama in '08 eager to vote him out. With low enthusiasm for the disaster in the White House, and even die hard democrats refusing to back the disaster they voted for in'08, the STENCH of the election results is overwhelming.

Posted by: Deli Llama at November 07, 2012 10:05 AM (lGu1O)

186 People who either;
1. Never had a job
2. Are still in school or college
3. Have a menial low-paying 'first' job

How in the hell do you appeal to that faction? Did a whisper campaign
that Obama's gonna pay our student loans off occur?
Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 07, 2012 09:58 AM (feFL6)
I'm 18-30! I know a lot of 18-30 year olds who voted for the SCOAMF. Here's the thing about 18-30 year olds voting for democrats: They tend not to understand economics, so even promising cheap student loans and "Great paying jobs in the future" tends to work.I have many fights trying to explain to them how economics works. Several of them believe Upper 1% starts at over a million dollars a year in income, they fail to see the distinction between "wealth" and "income" (so they get confused on how taxation actually works.) It's a mess.

Posted by: tsrblke at November 07, 2012 10:05 AM (GaqMa)

187
I saw the strike list in several counties in OH and the numbers of R votes DO NOT match up with the number of Rs we had voting on the strike list.
Not by a long shot.


So, (making up numbers here) if the vote count says 20,000 Rs voted, our strike list had 30,000 Rs voting.
They should be the exact same. Plus, I saw these earlier in the night and I know that I voted at 8AM and was called twice because my name was not marked of the voting roll for yesterday even though I signed the book and showed my ID.


How is that possible?



Yes, our Sec in charge of voting is an R. That is why it made no sense to see R/R's name as the last name on the Pres. ballot under 3 or 4 other names. I bet the guy in the 2nd slot garnered voted by people who waited in line for hours and just assumed they were voting R/R when actually they were voting for a no name in the 2nd slot.

And yes, our Sec of voting is an R so I don't get how he allowed R/R to be the last of 4 or 5 names on the ballot.
I bet a lot of people voted for the guy in the 2nd slot just assuming that it was R/R because they were stupid, tired of waiting in line, etc.

Posted by: momma at November 07, 2012 10:05 AM (fKyrY)

188 Backin 1987, my father bought a Toyota Corolla. When his family found out, they treated him as a pariah. He was the first of a large mid-Western family to not buy American. My father was sick of the inferior products GM was producing and decided to get a highly-rated and reliable Japanese car. His sibilings and relatives- that logic was wrong; just buy American - namely GM.

Now, I will no longer ever buy a GM. Ever. Screw that company and most of all, screw their unions. Because in the end - that's what gave Obama the election: the states like Ohio and Michigan.

Companies like Toyota and Volkswagen and Honda build cars in non-union plants around the nation. They don't get handouts or taxpayer dollars to avoid bankruptcy. Of course, they are also mostly in red states.

Congrats. I will buy those cars even if GM makes the best cars on the planet. And even if Democrats pass a law forcing Americans to buy a GM, I will forgo a car, buy a vespa, and strap two car seats on the back.

Posted by: Hoi Polloi Wingnuttia at November 07, 2012 10:06 AM (xvtYZ)

189 Amnesty - what are you smoking?

Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 10:06 AM (jQm+J)

190 I hope I am not just in serious denial.. but this doesnt add up.
This reeks of fraud

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at November 07, 2012 10:06 AM (DGIjM)

191 137 Math are hard:

13 million people LESS voted this year than in 2008...

and early voters and election day voters reported unprecedented long lines at the polls.


I am stumped.

Posted by: RondinellaMamma at November 07, 2012 09:57 AM (53riN)


Perhaps folks don't understand the literal definition of "unprecedented." I live in Maryland, a state as safely blue as any out there. In '08, I voted on election day. The line was very long. This year, I voted early. Still a long line, but it's hard to compare under different circumstances, four years between events.

I want to believe we turned out in record numbers, but I don't trust people to be accurate observers of truly large numbers. Anecdotes are not reliable.

Posted by: red sweater at November 07, 2012 10:06 AM (CUi62)

192 144 Nothing to do with student loans. It was all about social issues. Which leaves the Republicans screwed. Abandon the social issues and you might be able to appeal to those voters on economic grounds, but you'll never get enough to compensate for the SoCons (like me) that you'll run off. Pursue the social issues and you keep the SoCons but run off the brain-dead liberal-indoctrinated yoofs who've come up on a steady diet of 15 years of "Heather Has Two Mommies" and who get their hard news from Jon Fucking Stewart.

It's like having to choose how to die, coitus with Helen Thomas or coitus with Susan Estrich. Either way, you're dead and your last memories are horrible.

Posted by: Moose4 at November 07, 2012 10:06 AM (W15Fy)

193 Can I blame Ron Paul, Gary Johnson, and their cultists?

Posted by: CraigR3521 at November 07, 2012 10:06 AM (IcGZb)

194
As one who did not vote for Romney, but who has no inherent oppostion to voting GOP I think the only lesson you need to learn from this resultis that the country is somewhere to the right of center fiscally and somewhere to the left of center on other issues. The GOP establishment is to the left of center fiscally and to the right of center on other issues. Your establishment candidates can thus no longer deliver victory. In the name of electability you allowed your establishment to nominate the candidate least likely to win.
The GOP establishment may be philosophically opposed to such a a change, but it should not be too difficult to do if change is desired.

Posted by: BVBigBro at November 07, 2012 10:06 AM (XrVRY)

195 I'm going to morning Mass.

When I get back, there needs to be a family meeting.

Someone didn't fucking show up. I want names on lists.

If it was the evangelicals, we are going to have a feeling sharing session. We Catholics did our part, are suing O in every fucking federal district. We are in the midst if our own internal civil war. Our Bishops ordered letters read from the Pulpit around the nation.

If it was the Evangelicals who didn't show up, there is going to be some family meeting drama.

So. Who the fuck didn't show up, that did in 04 and 08? I want names on lists.

Posted by: Hopeless at November 07, 2012 10:06 AM (RFl8c)

196 I know this is going to piss some people off here, but the Todd Akins of the Republican party need to be put out to pasture, forever.

Posted by: Jack Burton at November 07, 2012 10:06 AM (L+4Fu)

197 The Dow is down over 200 points. The economy how do it work?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 07, 2012 10:06 AM (1Jaio)

198 On the radio, I heard Bill Handel, local radio jock, say he was sad, because he voted for Obama. But he did it purely out of self interest: Even though the guy is worth millions of dollars, he thought he could save money by not having to pay the healthcare costs of his surrogate mothers. He's an atty that specializes in that crap. So, people are using obamacare to make money. What right does a woman/couple have to stick the costs of the pregnancy onto the tax payer? Will actors who want plastic surgery to extend their careers also be eligible to have it covered under obamacare? What bullshit!

Posted by: Walkers! at November 07, 2012 10:06 AM (C4dFv)

199 Oh, and you can place me squarely in the 'let it burn' camp after last night.

The America I grew up in (I was born in 195 is gone. The America where people vote themselves free stuff at my expense is the new model.

Posted by: Jones in CO at November 07, 2012 10:06 AM (8sCoq)

200 Exit polling indicates Hispanics voted for Obama in larger percentages than they did last time, and made up a larger fraction of the total electorate. This is only going to continue.

It may simply be that Republican presidents are no longer electable, ever. The Galt strategy at this point might be the only thing left. Make you and your family as comfortable as possible, and wait for the whole thing to collapse.

Posted by: Matt at November 07, 2012 10:06 AM (Aqc5i)

201 I'm starting to come to terms with this already by adopting the school of thought that re-electing the SCOAMF is preferrable. Romney could only probably stalled the collapse. Better to give it to the Donks, let them own it, eat it, and wreck it so we can start over sooner.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 07, 2012 10:07 AM (uD2fR)

202 The fundamental mistake that Romney (and I) made was about those 23
million he kept talking about. We assumed that they wanted jobs. What
they really want is to sit on the couch, watch Honey-Boo-Boo and get
more free stuff from Obama.
Civil War by '24!

Jaylord right on the $$$. This was THE most transformational election ever...
It's a version of the North South all over again, the wealth creators vs. the moochers. I'm not sure what "appealing" to these people means... If it's pandering, count me out. If you can't make a decision about your future the future of your children, one that a 6 yr. old child could easily make, I DON'T WANT you with me. We shouldn't be talking of building a fence along Mexico... more like a fence along Calif., Illinois, Mass., NY, Penn. Fuck 'em.

Posted by: jwillmoney at November 07, 2012 10:07 AM (zU03n)

203 No more movies, papers, dvd's or cd's, charities or when I see a bum begging the finger and a hearty Fuck You!, instead of a buck. I can make my own movies after a few beers while I'm grilling on my patio.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at November 07, 2012 10:07 AM (8Hnjw)

204 Look, the horrible Republican primary process elected a moderate Democrat to run as its presidential candidate. This just killed Tea Party enthusiasm, which Romney tried to lure back with the Ryan pick. Epic Fail: Repeat in 2016.

Posted by: Palmcroft at November 07, 2012 10:08 AM (P9kUH)

205 What happened to the thread by Ace just before the overnight thread? Hey, I was reading that! There was some good stuff I wanted to quote!

Posted by: Auntie Doodles at November 07, 2012 10:08 AM (JcN7j)

206 bunch of people on my FB page basically saying Damned if we do & Damned if we don't, Now I don't ask what they are D,R,I BUt I think Romneycare might very well have had an effect

Posted by: Evilpens at November 07, 2012 10:09 AM (ck76k)

207 "The Dow is down over 200 points. The economy how do it work?


Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 07, 2012 10:06 AM (1Jaio) "



I wouldn't be shocked to see it up 200 at the bell. It stopped making sense long ago.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 07, 2012 10:09 AM (uD2fR)

208 I am interested in seeing a list of the states that had areas in which the turnout levels were lower than McCain's.

Posted by: 80sBaby at November 07, 2012 10:09 AM (YjDyJ)

209 Red sweater, agree - but the early vote counts didn't show a similar turnout depression

Posted by: Jean at November 07, 2012 10:09 AM (tmzN0)

210 It doesn't matter who votes, it only matters who counts the votes. --Joseph Stalin


But [update2] The media will sitll do everything possible to make sure the Republicans are to blame for the misery that Obama pt bring.

Posted by: Trevor (@TJexcite) at November 07, 2012 10:09 AM (Ea64Y)

211 Also on the radio was a teaser by Larry Elder, also an LA radio jock and a good guy. He said no matter what the outcome of the election, this country is divided. Well he got that right.

Let the other side suffer for their bullshit. Lefties have no problems screwing you if you are a conservative, so I will have no problems screwing them back any way I can.

Watch the employment figures go up even farther. Don't expect charitable donations. Nothing. Just suck it!

Posted by: Walkers! at November 07, 2012 10:09 AM (C4dFv)

212 Never mind, it was not that thread. Carry on.

Posted by: Auntie Doodles at November 07, 2012 10:10 AM (JcN7j)

213 Those who don't have a home in the country better go get one, right now.

I think (partly by reading these comments) that the Dead Elephants learned absolutely nothing last night.

Posted by: Your Inner Voice at November 07, 2012 10:10 AM (C34KJ)

214 What has happened to my country? When did I become the outsider?
I don't know if serving in the military, or volunteer firefighting, or raising money for the poor is proper for me anymore. Maybe I'm just naively contributing to the problem by allowing others to benefit unjustly and selfishly, free from obligation to contribute. Only to take for themselves and dictate to me what I am obliged to do.
When did I become the bad guy?

Posted by: Adirondack Patriot at November 07, 2012 10:10 AM (70Mth)

215 "WE didn't turn out"

I certainly did.

Posted by: Mikey NTH - counting the days at November 07, 2012 10:10 AM (hLRSq)

216 Damn, I am embarrassed to say that part of me wants the right to shut off the money spigot to any charity giving or anything in general that benefits those on the left. A great big screw you to all of them.

Posted by: Jack Burton at November 07, 2012 10:11 AM (L+4Fu)

217 Re: Amnesty

On TV you will hear a large number of Republican talking heads saying
the same thing. But, notice that you will hear 100% of Democrats saying
that the Republicans have to do amnesty for their own good. Why are
Democrats going out of their way to offer such good advice to
Republicans? Because they love the Republicans and can't stand to see
them lose elections.

Gosh, it's almost like the Bush/Rove immigration strategy was meant not to help the nation, or the GOP, but was meant to perpetuated the Bush dynasty...who can save us in 2016? Only Jeb.


Posted by: Links at November 07, 2012 10:11 AM (RgIRJ)

218 Better to give it to the Donks, let them own it, eat it, and wreck it so we can start over sooner.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 07, 2012 10:07 AM


That's a dandy attitude, pal. At least if you happen to be young enough to see a future beyond the collapse.

For many of us, "next time" or "the future" is too friggin' late.

Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 07, 2012 10:11 AM (yKUrR)

219 So. Who the fuck didn't show up, that did in 04 and 08? I want names on lists.
Posted by: Hopeless at November 07, 2012 10:06 AM (RFl8c)


The hierarchy may be suing the government, but that doesnt necessarily mean that catholics showed up for us. I think we offered SoCons of all religions little in this campaign.

Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 07, 2012 10:11 AM (bonPh)

220 Our Bishops ordered letters read from the Pulpit around the nation.

If it was the Evangelicals who didn't show up, there is going to be some family meeting drama.



That letter wasn't read in a great many churches, including my husband's in Huntington Beach CA.

My Pentecostal aunts and uncles voted for Romney by the dozens, in literal fear they were risking Hell to do so.

Best hold off on finger pointing til we know what happened.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 07, 2012 10:11 AM (2rMmy)

221 Above quote came from Steve Sailer at

http://isteve.blogspot.com/

Posted by: Links at November 07, 2012 10:11 AM (RgIRJ)

222 Clarence! Where are your calls now?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

You fucking Obama dick-sucking turd.

Posted by: Waterhouse at November 07, 2012 10:11 AM (RsSRf)

223 Monday, based on early voting totals in some key liberal counties, I believed that Barack's ceiling was around Kerry's 2004 vote total...

And it was close... 59.9 million versus 59 million in 2004...

basically equal given population growth

With the economic conditions, Team Obama had to make it a low-turnout-election... and the negative advertising coupled with the MSM's lack-of-coverage successfully drove down GOP turnout...

Posted by: phreshone at November 07, 2012 10:12 AM (MAhUT)

224 196 I know this is going to piss some people off here, but the Todd Akins of the Republican party need to be put out to pasture, forever.

Posted by: Jack Burton at November 07, 2012 10:06 AM (L+4Fu)


That shouldn't find any objectors here. Weren't we all calling for him to get out of the race before the ballot was set in stone?

He said a very very very stupid thing and tanked his chances in a race the GOP should have won. No matter what his policies or credentials, he proved he can't be a reliable politician. Until people stop caring about issues irrelevant to the office in question (i.e., never), politicians *have* to be the loathsome pukes who dodge issues and flip flop to whatever's popular at the moment. We force them to be that way. We have no right to complain about the rules we set.

Posted by: red sweater at November 07, 2012 10:12 AM (CUi62)

225 So, all of ya'll are full of fuckin shit.
We picked some guy because he was squeaky clean. A good model but an old model. See "Choom Gang" if you need reference.
We thought "New Press" would compete with "MSM". See "The View"
We thought Rule of Law meant something. We thought the rules meant something. We thought that we lived in a Republic.
This is not about the homos wanting to be "married". It is not about "war on women'.
This is a war on our power base. A direct, in your face war.
They want our shit and now they can have our shit.
The implications are profound. We call it "national security", the call it "imperialism" . What it really is (was), is maintaining force to allow us to compete. They will further degrade it. We will lose our standing.
All because we are a bunch of spoiled fucking brats that no longer want to work for anything. For reference, see "illegal immigration". Things that will tear this country down.
Oh, and I am in a great mood this morning. If you want to argue with me, well, come on.

Posted by: Artruen at November 07, 2012 10:12 AM (fDGF1)

226 I'm not pointing the finger at anyone other than those who turned out and voted for the line of bullshit the Ds were peddling. evangelicals didn't do this. libertarians didn't do this. identity politics + free shit did this. they took a look and figured 16 trillion, high unemployment, is no big deal, a long as I get mine.

Posted by: DCPensFan at November 07, 2012 10:12 AM (ma/2m)

227 80s baby, I don't see a specific depression in the Virginia numbers at first glance. I will have to download an chart it. I can see the Obama drop off from 08, but I was expecting that.

Posted by: Jean at November 07, 2012 10:12 AM (pmDdf)

228 All I can tell you is these random thoughts:

1) I will continue to believe God has a plan and I will never lose faith in Him, although I have lost faith in American people (or half of them). While I may not see it in my lifetime, things have a way of getting better after getting much worse. I will probably see the "much worse" part. I feel badly for my children and, especially, for my parent's generation who kept us from speaking German or Japanese and started American back towards the prosperity that was lost in 2008. For that I am bitter.

2) Again, history shows revolutions started when things got really, really bad. The next two years will be telling if things go worse...what will happen in the mid-term elections. I will be fired up again, I am sure...even though I cannot imagine being more fired up that I have been. I have no energy left for this right now. But you never know...

3) Fifty percent of this country are still Americans at heart. We will never give up. You should not give up.

4) Due to my faith in God, I am not going to allow myself to ask "why." This country has voted for what they deserve: socialism, abortion on demand, gay marriage. I am not sure what will happen next, for my family nor yours, but I will have faith that all will be well in the future. I am an eternal optimist and will always be this way. For if that was taken from me...which is my faith...I have nothing.

5) I urge you all to pray for this country today. Pray for future leaders who will truly represent all that is good about America. I guess 8% unemployment is still "good" to those who voted this buffoon into office again. I guess Israel will be left hanging..and may the American Jews who voted for The Won feel their vote (I am not a saint). Don't get me wrong, I am angry and sickened today. The election of 2008 did not surprise me. This one did. Yet I am resolved to fight on and never, ever give up. It is going to get worse in all possible ways. Good does come from bad. God has a plan. I accept His will.

6) Recharge. Do whatever you have to do to preserve your family. Pray. But come back fighting as you are needed. I have no idea what happened or who lied to us and gave us hope. I do not understand how this went so badly for us. I felt the enthusiasm for this ticket, the energy, the real possibility for winning.

7) I have to reflect on this country in WWII. We should have lost. We did not. While America was not facing internal enemies,as we do now, they still overcame amazing odds and won. When people are without jobs even longer, paying over $5/gallon for gas, well, eventually they are going to realize this little experiment of socialism is not working out so well. No one has any answers today. Rant, rave all you want. Cry. I have had tears in my eyes, but I am not one for the stuffed sinus thing and catharsis. I will fight until death.

Pray. God does not abandon you, no matter how this may feel.

9) I feel badly for those of you already suffering from the horrible economics in place and the lack of a job. My prayers, today, are more for you than myself. I hate, more than anything, to see what is happening to you all.

10) Find something to be thankful for today, in spite of this political mess. This is the test of faith in God. I have had a horrible year, starting with the sudden death of one of my brothers in October 2011. A cascade of messes and hideousness followed with other family members and those I love. I still try, daily, to thank God for His blessings. To thank God even for the tests that make my faith stronger, as that is how it works. I may not live to see it, but things will get better for those of us who love God and this country.

I am off to recharge. I will fight the battle of Benghazi in a few days. I plan to not watch tv for a few days, nor read much about this mess of politics, as I have better things to do than torture myself.

Ace and others...keep fighting. Your blog has been invaluable to my sanity for the past four years. Keep fighting, Morons and 'ettes. Blessings to you all.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, raving lunatic about Benghazi at November 07, 2012 10:13 AM (baL2B)

229 "If it was the evangelicals, we are going to have a feeling sharing session. We Catholics did our part"

That is sadly not the case. If we voted the way we should, Republicans would never lose.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 10:13 AM (/g5vp)

230 Well, time to go to work, while it's still there.

I think I'll have enough info on whether or not I'm going to shut it down by Friday of next week. I can easily gauge local consumer sentiment by my customer base. Many of them run or work for small, medium and large businesses. The word should start trickling down what their immediate future will hold.

I'm predicting ugly.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 07, 2012 10:13 AM (uD2fR)

231 Can I blame Ron Paul, Gary Johnson, and their cultists?
Posted by: CraigR3521


The 'Other' vote was only 1.8 million. So even if all of that was jackass libertarian (it's not), Romney still lost.

Posted by: burned cut-loop at November 07, 2012 10:14 AM (jo069)

232 #63 Jane, Why stop at third trimester abortions? There are some "ethicists" that believe in "fourth" trimester abortions. Do a Google search on "ethicist abortion newborn".


Posted by: jim at November 07, 2012 10:14 AM (VwhRo)

233 We will need to autopsy the results, and also compare them to the Bush 2004 coalition. How do we put that back together? The votes were there. I know there are votes left to be counted, but I am really surprised R got 3 mil less that John.

Posted by: Honey Badger at November 07, 2012 10:14 AM (GvYeG)

234 i know idiots who voted for the scoamf they told me i;m an idiot because romney would take away my disability check i cant wait till they need surgery or health care and come across beurocrats like in england my only satisfaction will be i told you so also our web business will launch soon the bright side the resume database will be easier to fill however selling premium job postings might be harder

Posted by: jimmytheclaw at November 07, 2012 10:15 AM (qWu3+)

235 204 is worth an encore:
Look, the horrible Republican primary process elected a moderate
Democrat to run as its presidential candidate. This just killed Tea
Party enthusiasm, which Romney tried to lure back with the Ryan pick.
Epic Fail: Repeat in 2016.

Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 10:15 AM (jQm+J)

236 133
If I didn't have a disabled relative to care for, I'd pack up my shit and move back to Italy. It's what America's turning into, minus the good pasta and handbags/shoes to die for.
Trying to wrap my head around the fact that the nation my parents escaped to now looks more like the country they fled.

All in the span of one generation.

Posted by: kallisto at November 07, 2012 10:15 AM (jm/9g)

237 Winning with amnesty is like hiring a rapist to teach your daughters about tampons.

Posted by: Inspector Asshole at November 07, 2012 10:15 AM (jZn+7)

238 Mike Huckabee is a moralizing clusterfuck of a miserable failure. He can take Akin, Mourdock, Angle and O'Donnell and shove them up his SoCon ass.

Posted by: Sugar Fatty at November 07, 2012 10:15 AM (EX+sq)

239 Posted by: ChristyBlinky, raving lunatic about Benghazi at November 07, 2012 10:13 AM (baL2B)


Ditto

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 07, 2012 10:16 AM (2rMmy)

240 204 is worth an encore:Repeat in 2016.

Posted by: Gerry


Says you.

Posted by: burned cut-loop at November 07, 2012 10:16 AM (jo069)

241 It makes me smile to know that obama knows that half the USA despises him and now he's going to get less from us, fuck 'em!

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at November 07, 2012 10:16 AM (8Hnjw)

242 You need to careful with 8 followed by )

Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 10:17 AM (jQm+J)

243 "The question will be WHO didn't turn out "

Who stabbed us in the back, and how can we sell out to them so they will support us next time?

Posted by: Daryl Herbert at November 07, 2012 10:17 AM (Ad/UR)

244 Hold on.

I appears Buckley might have said "despair is a mortal sin."

And, the 1st Commandment. Too.

Posted by: twoslaps at November 07, 2012 10:17 AM (pbUEP)

245 A lot of my customers work for large, national corps (Citigroup, Ally, Kemper). I'll be eager to see what the scuttlebutt is from those guys.


Ok, now it's really off to work.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 07, 2012 10:17 AM (uD2fR)

246 It's third party time. Republicans have been so successfully demonized that the majority will never vote for a Republican no matter how bad the Democrat is. Conservatives must form a third party and keep all Libertarians and RINO's away from it at all cost. That's the only hope. Which means it's hopeless because you Beta Male Dickless Wonders will never grow balls big enough to tell the Ed Morrissey's of the world to go fuck themselves and that's what is now required.

Posted by: Jaynie59 at November 07, 2012 10:18 AM (4zKCA)

247 I'm seeing comments postulating that evangelicals stayed home because Romney is Mormon. Just want you to know that, in our evangelical circles, the Christians were chomping at the bit to vote Obama out of office.

Posted by: Mindy at November 07, 2012 10:18 AM (6jLT3)

248 Allen West lost.. that makes me sick

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at November 07, 2012 10:19 AM (DGIjM)

249 says me again.

The Stupid Party nominated a Mormon "severe conservative" statist architect of RomneyCare to go up against a secular humanist Marxist statist patron of ZeroCare.

Did you expect HIGHER conservative voter turnout?

Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 10:19 AM (jQm+J)

250 I keep saying this...the numbers Don't add up in OH.

Posted by: momma at November 07, 2012 10:20 AM (fKyrY)

251 It was all about social issues. Which leaves the
Republicans screwed. Abandon the social issues and you might be able to
appeal to those voters on economic grounds, but you'll never get enough
to compensate for the SoCons (like me) that you'll run off. Pursue the
social issues and you keep the SoCons but run off the brain-dead
liberal-indoctrinated yoofs who've come up on a steady diet of 15 years
of "Heather Has Two Mommies" and who get their hard news from Jon
Fucking Stewart.


Posted by: Moose4


I think this analysis is correct. There are too many swing voters now who view Mormons, and evangelicals and SoCons generally as just a different flavor of busybody nanny staters. But I also can't see any way to assemble a winning coalition if the SoCons are run off.

We are so screwed.

Posted by: cool breeze at November 07, 2012 10:20 AM (hx/td)

252 I was pissed and exhausted when I came here late last night. I'm still pissed and exhausted today, but I haven't changed my mind about what just happened.


I told my friends when Bill Clinton was elected that we had entered the Age of Entertainment. I hoped I was wrong, but I'm not. America for the most part just wants to be entertained. We want to have lots of sex and not worry about producing a baby. We want to throw a big wedding for ourselves even if we are guys with guys and girls with girls. We get our news from comedians. We watch whores and rednecks on TV and think they are hilarious.


And so we got a Presidential campaign that was about free birth control, abortion, Big Bird, and gay marriage. We got a sitting President of the United States giving interviews to the Pimp With a Limp, a bunch of dumb broads on a daytime chat show, and aging late-night comedians.


We all laughed at this, thought it was indicative of a party and candidate that were out of ideas and grasping at straws. We were sure our serious, sober candidates who talked honestly with the American people about the fiscal crisis we face would carry the day.


We were wrong.

Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 10:20 AM (qe2/V)

253 246 Yeah a party platform banning masturbation, gay sex and the cultivation of evil plants is a sure winner. Maybe Akin can be your nominee?

Posted by: Sugar Fatty at November 07, 2012 10:20 AM (EX+sq)

254 Rick Wilson @TheRickWilson
I'll have more to say later, but this was a victory by systems and data, not ideology and ideas.

Someone like dave in Fla Or CAC get this

Posted by: Evilpens at November 07, 2012 10:20 AM (ck76k)

255 "238 Mike Huckabee is a moralizing clusterfuck of a miserable failure. He can take Akin, Mourdock, Angle and O'Donnell and shove them up his SoCon ass.
Posted by: Sugar Fatty at November 07, 2012 10:15 AM (EX+sq)"

Hey, Mitt was one of yours bucko. And he did worse than McCain.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 10:21 AM (/g5vp)

256 Palmcroft, add in Roberts SCOTUS ruling and you have your malaise

Posted by: Jean at November 07, 2012 10:21 AM (pmDdf)

257 For those talking fraud: That doesn't matter. Unless you find a way that votes -disappeared- Romney lost because people didn't come out, not because Obama had more votes than expected.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 10:21 AM (moRRg)

258 247
I'm seeing comments postulating that evangelicals stayed home because
Romney is Mormon. Just want you to know that, in our evangelical
circles, the Christians were chomping at the bit to vote Obama out of
office.

Posted by: Mindy at November 07, 2012 10:18 AM (6jLT3)

Ditto.
People have to blame someone, I guess. However, I believe, with all of my heart, these two men would have brought our country to economic prosperity.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, raving lunatic about Benghazi at November 07, 2012 10:21 AM (baL2B)

259 I'm 25 years old and I am going to spend my entire adult life under this new America. I think we're going to have to lose nearly everything before we wake up.

I've only really cared about immigration restriction to the extent of preventing demographic change. The problem last night wasn't that the Hispanic share of the electorate surged significantly, its that the percentages they have given have trended too poorly. We are going backwards with Hispanics compared to even last decade. We need to change on this.

Posted by: Chris P at November 07, 2012 10:21 AM (LuvqF)

260 When I look at the numbers, I see Romney pulling in hardcore conservatives stronger than McCain, while Obama pulled in hardcore lefties harder. Maybe running as a hardcore partisan as the Dems do is the winning strategy instead of always casting a wider net as Republicans do. It seems the middle just didn't turn out.

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at November 07, 2012 10:22 AM (Rwrs+)

261 176 Samwise- It is wrong to defend people against, AFAIK, slur?

Posted by: Baldy at November 07, 2012 10:22 AM (opS9C)

262
166
Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.


Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 07, 2012 10:02 AM (/eBe


Well, at least you don't have to come up with a new acronym.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 07, 2012 10:22 AM (da5Wo)

263 @ 201 "I'm starting to come to terms with this already by adopting the school of thought that re-electing the SCOAMF is preferrable. Romney could only probably stalled the collapse. Better to give it to the Donks, let them own it, eat it, and wreck it so we can start over sooner."

You know, I have some (admittedly wierd) theories about how chaos theory can apply to American history, especially as we seem to have gone through a cycle of building energy-dislocation-establishment of a new paradigm starting from the mid 1760s, and moving on a 10-30-50-70 year cycle.

Guess what? The end of the 90 year is right around 2016.

Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 07, 2012 10:23 AM (+inic)

264 Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 10:20 AM (qe2/V)
__
How did it happen that all GOP congressmen in the Philly collar were re-elected, when only one county went to Romney? wtf are people thinking?

Posted by: kallisto at November 07, 2012 10:23 AM (jm/9g)

265 "253 246 Yeah a party platform banning masturbation, gay sex and the cultivation of evil plants is a sure winner. Maybe Akin can be your nominee?"

Have fun with Chris Christie and Scott Brown and telling minorities no more handouts.

That'll win.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 10:23 AM (/g5vp)

266 Pat Buchanan was right.

Let's see how many know what he right about.

Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 10:23 AM (jQm+J)

267 Akin/O'Donnell 2016
Masturbation is the Devil

Posted by: Sugar Fatty at November 07, 2012 10:24 AM (EX+sq)

268
When I look at the numbers, I see Romney pulling in hardcore
conservatives stronger than McCain, while Obama pulled in hardcore
lefties harder. Maybe running as a hardcore partisan as the Dems do is
the winning strategy instead of always casting a wider net as
Republicans do. It seems the middle just didn't turn out.

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at November 07, 2012 10:22 AM (Rwrs+)

At least to a greater degree than the GOP has done that for quite awhile now, yes.

Posted by: davidinvirginia at November 07, 2012 10:26 AM (qEkGZ)

269 Hey Gerry,
FUCK YOU


Posted by: DaveA at November 07, 2012 10:26 AM (MOWP1)

270 You all have as nice a rest of the day and week as you can after this.
I've got to go pay closer attention to how much money I'm losing in the
market today. I think I need a few days (weeks or months) off from
politics of all sorts...take care, one and all, and be well.

Posted by: davidinvirginia at November 07, 2012 10:26 AM (qEkGZ)

271 You know, I still wish we had stuck Gingrich against the cocksucker because at least he would have done some damage to the Obama brand, he would have lost but it would have been way more satisfying.

Posted by: Jaimo at November 07, 2012 10:27 AM (9U1OG)

272 Libertarians: go fuck yourselves.

Posted by: Klawnet at November 07, 2012 10:27 AM (AYfPj)

273 You want to know where all those missing Republican voters went? They got old and died, that's what happened to them. Seriously, older folks that remembered FDR with a shudder made a big slice of the reliable GOP voting bloc, and they've been passing on to the great beyond with increasing frequency the last few years.

Now, of course, the problem is how to attract today's addle-brained youf without just becoming New Donk Lite! Now with 20% Less Fascism! is a knotty problem. But, unless you're in Chicago, dead voters never come back; so we have to figure out a way to replace them with live ones.

Perhaps the reaming the 18-29 cohort will be taking jobs-wise over the next few years will help, but that's only a problem to them if mom and dad kick them out of the house.

Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at November 07, 2012 10:27 AM (DLu2s)

274 272 Libertarians: go fuck yourselves.

You didn't outlaw that yet?

Posted by: Sugar Fatty at November 07, 2012 10:28 AM (EX+sq)

275 Well, there is some great news!! Sheldon Adelson will be laying off most of the Obama voters in his hotels ) GOOOO SHELDON!!!

Posted by: jwillmoney at November 07, 2012 10:28 AM (zU03n)

276 We were so very wrong. As I see it, pardon the numbers, but as of last night, it was if 30 million people voted less than last time. What the hell? So what can you take away from a loss in which you were even the entire time, leading towards the end, with an enthused voter base and you still lose 9million votes from the last pres election and while the other guy loses 19m votes from his victory total?

Blame the RINO's or the prolife freaks, something is wrong and these were issues that weren't even mentioned in the debates. How can we recriminate without knowing what happened.

Basically, it seems like you have to blame Christie for pushing Obama over the top at the last minute. And blame Romney's mechanics for failing to reach the right people to turn out.

Posted by: joeindc44 has a D+10 sample for you at November 07, 2012 10:29 AM (Z3ckx)

277 No, Samwise, I do not trust you and your lawyer-like words.

Posted by: Baldy at November 07, 2012 10:29 AM (opS9C)

278 Part of the problem is that the Republican party would elect a candidate for Senate that actually uttered the words legitimate rape. That's really all you need to know as to why this election went the way it did.

Posted by: Jack Burton at November 07, 2012 10:30 AM (L+4Fu)

279 Dead Elephants nominated the architect of ObamaCare, who lost in '08 to one of the worst nominees the party put up and now they're sctraching their heads looking for people in their own camp(of conservatives) to blame? ...Can't fix stupid...

Posted by: Your Inner Voice at November 07, 2012 10:31 AM (C34KJ)

280 "We are going backwards with Hispanics compared to even last decade. We need to change on this."

Tall fence, wide gate. if they're going to be here -- and it think it's say to say they are -- have to deal with it in a way that brings them into the fold. get them legalized. i'd draw the line at citizenship. but maybe it's even too late for that. we can have open borders or a welfare state. not both. forced to choose, i'd go (more) open borders.

Posted by: DCPensFan at November 07, 2012 10:31 AM (ma/2m)

281 I honestly don't blame Romney, he ran a good campaign. He espoused all the conservative issues we care about, he was intelligent and articulate, and he was able to raise plenty of money to counter Obama.

This loss is on the American people, and that's far more terrifying.

I will say though that I think the GOP needs to reboot similar to Democrats did in 1988.

I say this as a traditional Christian, we need to drop the culture war. That is killing us with both young and female voters. We have to understand this is no longer a Christian nation and politicians aren't spiritual leaders.

Posted by: McAdams at November 07, 2012 10:32 AM (ZI/Cb)

282 @ 251 "It was all about social issues."

That's a dubious proposition at best. Let's not forget - Romney was from the "business/economic conservative" wing of the GOP. And he just did worse than McCain.

Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 07, 2012 10:32 AM (+inic)

283 As one who did not vote for Romney,

Well then,
FUCK YOU

You've self identified as part of the problem.

Posted by: DaveA at November 07, 2012 10:32 AM (MOWP1)

284 Also not adding up -- ridiculously long voting lines, high early voting numbers, and there were supposedly fewer votes cast this election?

Posted by: Mindy at November 07, 2012 10:32 AM (6jLT3)

285 Wish people would stop blaming political factions of GOP or Christian vs Evangelicals vs Mormon, right winger vs moderate. Blame lies with the MEDIA, who are commie bastard shrills, promote hard left agenda's and are tools in the "dumb'n down" of America.

MEDIA should be target # 1. Does not matter what platform the GOP has or would adopt, MEDIA would still cover any leftist ass.

Posted by: Deli LLama at November 07, 2012 10:33 AM (lGu1O)

286 ok, it seems like it's 59M for O, 57M for R.

So, we're about 2M off of pace from 2008?

wow

Posted by: joeindc44 has a D+10 sample for you at November 07, 2012 10:33 AM (Z3ckx)

287 So that's 4 entirely winnable Senate races that SoCon loons have pissed away in 2 years.

Posted by: Sugar Fatty at November 07, 2012 10:34 AM (EX+sq)

288 Jesus! This isn't rocket surgery folks. You ran a milder version of Obama. No one is going to out Obama, Obama. If the R's are really conservative then fucking run a conservative. Hang it out there, give people a real choice instead of this cold water versus warm water bullshit you ran the last 2 times.
The way to win is not to become more left (amnesty, pro-choice, big gov.) It's to offer voters a real choice, to believe in yourselves.
Quit being ashamed of who you are and what you believe.

Posted by: flyonthewall at November 07, 2012 10:34 AM (aZ7lL)

289 227 80s baby, I don't see a specific depression in the Virginia numbers at
first glance. I will have to download an chart it. I can see the Obama
drop off from 08, but I was expecting that.


I was watching several swing state vote tracker feeds last night (mainly covering OH and FL) and kept reading that Romney was outperforming McCain in some key counties but there were also some troubling signs from other important counties. (Have yet to see the totals, though it is obvious that we underperformed in certain areas.) Wonder what issues specifically made the difference.

Posted by: 80sBaby at November 07, 2012 10:34 AM (YjDyJ)

290 274 Love your fascistic nom de plume. No, maggot, it is your side that outlaws things. Reference "Congress shall make no law" Hint, it is in that thing they call the "Constitution" Look it up.

Posted by: Artruen at November 07, 2012 10:36 AM (fDGF1)

291 ok, it seems like it's 59M for O, 57M for R.

So, we're about 2M off of pace from 2008?

wow


Posted by: joeindc44 has a D+10 sample for you at November 07, 2012 10:33 AM (Z3ckx)


It all came down to turn out and too many Republicans sat at home. I hope they enjoy their future

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 07, 2012 10:37 AM (1Jaio)

292 MEDIA should be target # 1. Does not matter what platform the GOP has or would adopt, MEDIA would still cover any leftist ass.

Because this can't be said enough. Koch Brothers et al: don't buy commercial time on media outlets, buy the actual outlets.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 07, 2012 10:38 AM (B/VB5)

293 I say this as a traditional Christian, we need to drop the culture war. That is killing us with both young and female voters. We have to understand this is no longer a Christian nation and politicians aren't spiritual leaders.

I agree, but I also think it will not matter. Romney and much of the GOP was focused solely on the economy for this election. The social issues were brought up by the other side as a strawman to fear-monger there base into turning out. We could abandon the social issues but it will take a long time for that card to lose its impact.

Posted by: Stormageddon Thundercock at November 07, 2012 10:40 AM (dB02l)

294 252 Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 10:20 AM (qe2/V)

Dead on accurate. Too many people get their "news" from the Comedy Channel.

Posted by: Peregrine Took, Hobbit S.O.B. at November 07, 2012 10:45 AM (Mwakv)

295 If you have the mentality of a ten year old and one person tells you to take your cough medicine and pay for it yourself while the other gives you free ice cream, well, who are you going to like better. Remember, half our population is average intelligence or below and simplistic "solutions" appeal to them.

In other words, we're fucked.

Posted by: Motorhead at November 07, 2012 10:47 AM (qAMin)

296 I agree, but I also think it will not matter. Romney and much of the
GOP was focused solely on the economy for this election. The social
issues were brought up by the other side as a strawman to fear-monger
there base into turning out. We could abandon the social issues but it
will take a long time for that card to lose its impact.


Yeah, but "war on women" was going nowhere-- was a joke-- was practically dead as a campaign tactic--

And then Akin happened.

Looking back on it, just as the 1st debate was the pivotal *positive* moment of the Romney campaign, the Akin debacle was the pivotal *negative* moment (and remember, it happened right before the GOP convention-- the worst moment possible). The "war on women" got an infinite influx of oxygen (later amplified by Murdock) that, in the end, captured too many women and youth. (Also a factor for the young: the "historical" factor of "gay marriage.")


Posted by: lael at November 07, 2012 10:48 AM (tUcg9)

297 The way it is right now, the GOP has boxed itself in on immigration. I hate to say it, but the minutemen founder is more reasonable "my problem isn't so much with day laborers as it is with narcotrafficers" but no the GOP-whose pro life positions could better appeal to Hispanics better than hip young gringos-is the anti immigrant party. I'll keep saying it, national security is the one issue I'm willing to sacrifice everything for to ensure the GOP has a voice on it. And I'm sick of small government Republicans who want morality in government. That costs you the youth vote. Yes young people are often too ignorant to appreciate Santourums commitment to his daughter. And they cheered when my professor announced his bid ended (and I go to the U of AZ, hardly a liberal campus). So moral of the story is, if you want small government pursue it, but ask yourself if having big government is worth fighting for social issues. If you don't believe in abortion, don't have one, if you don't believe in gay marriage don't have one. Will this help us overcome the social advantage that dems have? Probably not, but it's a damn good place to start. If the Dems promise free shit, we might as well promise working for shit with the expectation that citizens do as they please. It is what it is ladies and gents

Posted by: Danny at November 07, 2012 10:50 AM (YZbNi)

298 #264 LOTS of ticket splitting in the suburbs. The Congressmen who were elected in 2010 did a great job of serving constituents and focusing on local issues in their campaigns. The Democrats were unable to tag them as right-wing extremists. All of them ran well ahead of Romney.

Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 10:50 AM (qe2/V)

299 As bad as it seems right now, and it seems bad, there is still some hope. Obama will continue to be a SCoaMF and this sobering feeling we are all experiencing will help the GOP emerge stronger than ever. We can rebuild...

Posted by: Golden Boy at November 07, 2012 10:52 AM (Efk+H)

300 You're right, rockmon, the culture defeated us. IMO it's insurmountable. I taught in college, and the best and brightest there are completely brainwashed.

As for amnesty, what makes you think that the Dems are not going to pass this in the next month?? Little Hugo will do it by executive order if necessary!

And than it's really over. The US is the sick man of the Americas! Canada and Mexico are doing fine!


Posted by: PJ at November 07, 2012 10:54 AM (DQHjw)

301 281 I say this as a traditional Christian, we need to drop the culture war.
That is killing us with both young and female voters. We have to
understand this is no longer a Christian nation and politicians aren't
spiritual leaders.


Societal decay is the number one reason why this country is slowly dying. The liberals began their ascent by taking over our schools, our government, the media, and popular culture. They are also trying to destroy the Church. If there is to be any hope of restoring this country, we must fight to reclaim those institutions.

Posted by: 80sBaby at November 07, 2012 10:54 AM (YjDyJ)

302 An instructive example that came up not long ago at AOS.

What's-her-name, American Idol winner, big singer. In an interview, she said something like: at heart and deep down she was really a Republican (!), but would probably vote for Obama because she loves her gay friends.

No comment necessary.

So those may be the missing Republicans, who didn't turn out for Romney: the young Republicans. Repelled by an Akin scarecrow (made to stand for the GOP), swept up with their peers in the historical/ moral aura of "gay marriage" rights (replacing the "first black president" thing), the age group most susceptible to peer pressure.

And the 2012 Dem campaign was ALL about peer pressure.

Posted by: lael at November 07, 2012 10:56 AM (tUcg9)

303 'You're not even willing to acknowledge the existence of a long-ago postulated theory which may be the answer to your own question, which you expressed being absolutely perplexed about?'
Obama got the dead people to vote for him. That's his core consistuency!

Posted by: Steve D at November 07, 2012 11:01 AM (flNRe)

304 The Ohio relationship continues - National Pct: Obama 51.1 Romney 48.9 ; Ohio Pct: Obama 51.0 Romney 49.0 - Dems underperform.

Posted by: perdogg at November 07, 2012 11:01 AM (oSdsj)

305 OK, let me preface this next statement: I have nothing whatsoever against gays. I'm not religious, I don't care who fucks who, doesn't matter to me. Get married, whatever, hell if I care. That said....

I am so, so SO sick and fucking tired of hearing about them I'm sick and tired of minor policies of inconvience for a tiny minority (comparing gay marriage to Alabama 1964 is one of the most repulsive things I've ever heard) being cited constantly as a reason to keep voting for the far left. Just pork each other and go about your business for crissakes.

Posted by: radar at November 07, 2012 11:01 AM (zmlwq)

306
Among the premises you must re-examine... Proposing a return to the Constitution...while endorsing a large and active military presence in over a hundred nations around the world. (That'sin addition to active military conflicts or ongoing wars.) The two positions are logically inconsistent. One is a small government, mind your own business kind of affair, while the other embraces the idea of The AmericanEmpire and empire building. Empireshave never promoted individual freedom and liberty...for anyone.
Promoting individual freedom and liberty, while pushing limits on freedom of choice, including the war on drugs and other federal and state legislation and otherregulationsthatare in direct opposition to individual freedom and liberty? (Then, you complain aboutthe size of our prisons and about the crime rate.)The two positions are logically, even reasonably, inconsistent.
You complain about jobs which are 'outsourced' and 'offshore.' But there is little related talk of limiting government rules, regulations and taxes which force companies to send jobs overseas. (If they want to keep making money, they gots to go overseas in order to do so.) You offer no alternative, except a generic and unspecified call for smaller government...while embracing big government interference in the private lives of American citizens.
You complain about welfare moms, but embrace social security - which is just another way ofpromoting government theft of a worker's paycheck. (Hint: social security is socialism in action.)
If you've ever said, 'There ought to be a law...' or 'The government oughta do sumpin'!' you're a part of the problem. You're not a constitutionalist or a proponent of smaller government.
These are just a few items which outline the illogical premises often found in your debates. Are you conservatives? ...or are you socialists in all but name? Hint: Social conservatism is still...socialism.
The rest of us (independents, libertarians, etc.) have little choice...if the choice is between socialism light and hardcore left-wing politics. This year's libertarian and independent vote may have given you the election. Revile them if you will, but they had little choice. You gave them no choice. Hell, they often agree with you on many issues...but you still revile them. Are you crazy? Attacking the very people who would help you to restore The Constitution?
Embrace The Constitution, yes,but embrace all of it...or keep losing the big elections.
No. You don't want to hear any of this...but until you do think about it, and consider it very carefully, you'll keep losing the big elections and you'll keep losing on the big issues.

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at November 07, 2012 11:03 AM (WwR1j)

307 Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 10:50 AM (qe2/V)
__
Yes, in my districtPat Meehan was front and center when the Marcus Hook refineries closed. The union brothers rewarded his effort. I guess they disregarded the fact of Meehan's membership on Issa's committee.

Posted by: kallisto at November 07, 2012 11:05 AM (jm/9g)

308 #302 That was Carrie Underwood, wasn't it?


The other thing I realized a while ago, and was vindicated last night, is that George W. Bush was reelected in 2004 solely because Karl Rove got a bunch of gay marriage referenda on the ballots in swing states, especially Ohio. Much as we don't want to admit it, that was a small-ball social-issues campaign too. The Democrats have done an extremely good job of turning those wedge issues against us. Those are what drive young white women to the polls. They are not old enough to understand or care about economic or foreign policy. They vote for their friends and their vaginas.

Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 11:07 AM (qe2/V)

309 All of this is nonsense. Democracy has reached the de Tocqueville tipping point, meaning that it is now unworkable. Our future is Greece; unemployment at 20%, spiralling stagflation, riots, and the rise of violent parties on left and right. Followed by a "strongman" and war; in short, the birth of a new Roman Empire.

Bear in mind that Caesar and his heirs were the leaders of the "Democrats" of their day. All this rethinking of the party for the next election will get you nowhere. History has other plans.

Posted by: Kegger at November 07, 2012 11:08 AM (a1dHN)

310 282 I was talking specifically as pertained to the 18-30 year old voters with which Romney absolutely cratered. They don't have a solid understanding of economics--hell, I'm 46 now, college-edumacated, and when I was 26 I could barely balance my checkbook and marveled through my drunken haze that when one credit card maxed out, another magically appeared pre-approved in the mail. They are all about the trendy social issues because that's what has been shoved in their heads since kindergarten, about how awesome gay marriage is and how unfair it is for the 1% to have all that money and how free healthcare is a right. They get their news not from Chris Wallace or Diane "Pour Me a Double" Sawyer, but Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert and Eddie Izzard--yes, they go to stand-up comedians for the day's news. They read Buzzfeed and sites like that where they can get slanted left-wing drivel and then click through for pictures of celebritards with big tits.

They'll come around eventually, or at least a lot of them will, once the economy kicks them in the daddybags (or their contraceptive-laden uterus) and Reality goes upside their heads with a Clue-by-Four. But by that time there will be a new set of 18-29 skulls full of mush coming off the liberal indoctrination treadmill and the demographics will continue to turn relentlessly against us.

Posted by: Moose4 at November 07, 2012 11:09 AM (W15Fy)

311 #308 No, Kelly Clarkson. A REAL facepalm moment, since, as I recall, she was a Ron Paul supporter.

Oh, well. She has her millions, and I'm sure they're safely tucked away somewhere so she can have parties galore and invite all her newly married gay friends.

Posted by: JohnInOhio at November 07, 2012 11:10 AM (aPfC6)

312 This wasn't a good election for anyone, everyone's numbers went way down, kind of feels like people are going Galt.

Posted by: booger at November 07, 2012 11:12 AM (HI6wa)

313 @ 308 "They vote for their friends and their vaginas."

So, essentially the choice is either ditch social issues because a large segments of the country is stupid, or hang onto them and lose because a large segment of the country is stupid.

I agree. Let's just burn the country down now and rebuild it later.

Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 07, 2012 11:14 AM (+inic)

314 #309 Exactly. The only (small) consolation is that Caesar was possibly the most all around brilliant man in all of History, while Obama is a stuttering incompetant. He's basically Juan Peron without the snazzy uniforms. So it's...

Civil War by '24!

Then comes Caesar.

Posted by: Jaylord at November 07, 2012 11:14 AM (RuF8n)

315
Ace said that the socons rape quotes kept moderates at home.
Samwise said that Romney's Mormonism kept socon bigots at home.
You can't both be right. It looks like some Republicans just don't like socons and want to find a reason to blame them for this loss, even when they are the most reliable conservative voters.

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at November 07, 2012 11:15 AM (WYTHl)

316 #314 BINGO! I was just talking to my friend in Virginia who worked with me in the Reagan Administration. We agreed that America is now Argentina circa 1950. Complete with the new Evita jetting all over the world in her glamorous designer duds.


We've seen this entire movie. It's going to end exactly the same way.

Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 11:18 AM (qe2/V)

317 Trying to understand what the fuck happened.

In my own little world, here's the numbers formy small precinct in south central Michigan:
2008 - 52.04% voter participation
2012 - 78.53% (67/31 for Romney)

For a predominantly black area nearby:
2008 - 31.45% voter participation
2012 - 31.91% (86/12 for Obama)

For a bible-thumping evangelical area nearby:
2008 - 48.29% voter participation
2012 - 74.37% (68/30 for Romney)

What is impossible to understand is the vote downticket. Our county went for Mitt 52%/46%. We went 56%/40% for the bible-thumping representative (R), but on the senate vote, it went 52%/44% for the democrat cow Stabenow. What the fuck?

Posted by: jwest at November 07, 2012 11:21 AM (ZDsRL)

318 I can see what my future holds and its not good.

I've sucked it up for four years, another four years to go.

1. Leave California
2. Move to a deep red state.
3. Spend as little money as possible.
4. Close my Facebook account. I don't want to associate with anyone who voted for this fucker.

I have more but can't think right now.

Posted by: mpfs at November 07, 2012 11:24 AM (Mkhiu)

319 Ace, you are right that the Democrats are the party of free stuff. The Republicans need to become the party of free people: free to smoke marijuana, free to keep their own earnings, free to marry someone of the same sex, free to raise their kids as they see fit. Social conservatism turns a lot of people off. Can't we finally admit that? If not, expect future losses.

Posted by: Gordon Marock at November 07, 2012 11:25 AM (vp31D)

320 Oh and one more f*ck you. F*ck you, people who raised whiney, snively, give me free sh*t children, who are now the voters and Lena Dunhams of this country. I'm looking straight at you, Mom and Dad.

Posted by: the other coyote at November 07, 2012 11:31 AM (yK44T)

321 Gordon, Mitt Romney was the candidate, not Rick Santorum. Apparently, fiscal conservatism turns people off.

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at November 07, 2012 11:32 AM (WYTHl)

322 I can not get my head around how we ended up at D+6 when Obama lost 10 million votes over 2008.

Posted by: Dave in Fla at November 07, 2012 11:32 AM (JxIkO)

323 That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends,
it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to
institute new Government

Posted by: CivilWar2 at November 07, 2012 11:33 AM (4ZDLm)

324
I see four possible culprits:
1) Media propaganda
2) Minorities
3) Evangelicals
4) Fraud

Normally, I don't think I would even include #4, but a number of things don't add up. Comment #1, above, is a good summary, and "momma" has some disturbingon-site testimony. With all the early voting, and stories of people waiting in line forhours to vote, how can it POSSIBLY be a lower turnout than 2008?

Further, on a very recent FOX report, they say the Romney camp is "Scratching their heads" because they thought they had sufficientlygotten out the vote in the key states.

It also flies in the face of 2010. We showed up in droves to oust congressmen for ObamaCare, and now all of a sudden nobody cares?

Then there's the Senate races. There were 15 races where there was at least a small chance; some were considered extremely likely. It's just not reasonable that only one, to my knowledge (I haven't found out about MT and ND), was won. That must be at LEAST a 1 in 100 probability, if not lower.

A rumor has been started that the Evangelicals wouldn't vote for a Mormon. We should be able to figure out if that was true, but it sounds more like a story planted by Dem operatives, to me.

It is IMPERATIVE that we determine whether the count is legit before we move forward. How can you EVER win, if the deck is stacked? If it is, no adjustments will fix it.

As to #1 and #2, they go without saying; there isn't only one right answer. I believe we could make gains with Hispanics, whose culture is said to be compatible, but blacks are indoctrinated into the idea that all their problems are because of"whitey". It will be a very long time before an appreciable number will jump off that crazy train.

Posted by: Optimizer at November 07, 2012 11:34 AM (Mxt9o)

325
@322

Exactly, Dave. It makes no sense. Something crooked is going on here.

Posted by: Optimizer at November 07, 2012 11:35 AM (Mxt9o)

326 Fuck You All, you pretended to think the nation had changed and it didn't. Odumbass won because all those sorry ass worthless parasites voted to keep up the dole.Fuck you All. I love You!

Posted by: Rich K at November 07, 2012 11:42 AM (X4l3T)

327 309 is correct.

Posted by: Steve D at November 07, 2012 11:46 AM (flNRe)

328 A theory on this if these numbers are accurate.
The long and the short of it is that Obama's plan worked.
Millions of people out of work, many being republicans and independents who have been beat down and destitute over the last 2-3-4 years that they simply don't give a damn anymore.

The ten million who didn't show up for Obama was a mix between people suffering the same fate and those who were disenchanted with him.

There was a reason that Obama did not meet with his jobs council for 8 months, he was applying a tactic using the citizenry.

Anyhow, there it is.

Posted by: Drider at November 07, 2012 11:46 AM (HaJD9)

329 Heh, Kegger.

To paraphrase, "You may not be interested in history, but history is interested in you."

Posted by: PJ at November 07, 2012 11:48 AM (DQHjw)

330 When people realize they can vote themselves other people's money, why should they concern themselves with working hard or saving?

My husband woke me up with the news that JEF won, and I really did not want to get up today. But I thought that being depressed and upset just enforces the smugness and self righteousness of the fucksticks who voted for this piece of crap. So, I got up, cleaned the house, and am thinking of ways to become more frugal, more self sufficient and ride out this storm. I don't need a nanny government to help me. I wish others didn't either.

And fuck Chris Christie. That fat slob did Romney no favors. The question is why?

Posted by: moki at November 07, 2012 11:50 AM (wi/sM)

331
Well, at least my Secret Service investment strategy will pay off...

Hookers and blow, baby, hookers and blow!

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at November 07, 2012 11:50 AM (1hM1d)

332 Posting this on other threads as well...

I'm a fan of history. History demonstrates time
and again that nations will rise, become dominant and then ultimately
go into decline. The arc of a nation... I've wondered on and off over
the last 20 years or so where we were on that arc. I believe that last
night we blew past the inflection point and are now on the decline. And
we, the American people, made the conscious decision to do so.

I did not ever believe I would see it in my lifetime.

There are now more of them than there are of us.

Posted by: Hari Seldon, Psychohistorian at November 07, 2012 11:57 AM (r2z3p)

333 Two words - Executive Order.
With the Senate remaining in Democrat hands, Obama is pretty much free to govern without regard to the law. Throw in a replacement Justice of the like of Sotomayor or Kegan or Ginsberg, and there will be no constraints on his use and abuse of governmental power.
He has already shown how he can circumvent the normal rules of US government in the case of his DREAM act workaround, the imposition of birth control on insurers who have religious objections, EPA rules on carbon dioxide, and others.
Up until now, he was somewhat constrainted by fear of this election turning the Senate and possible impeachment. Now, that problem has gone away.
He has 2 years to seize control permanently of the Federal government. Hate to say it but he how has the same conditions and opportunities as Hitler did in the late Weimar Republic.

Posted by: whitehall at November 07, 2012 11:58 AM (FmPSC)

334 Illegal immigrants are willing to risk their lives to cross a perilous desert to work for next to nothing in order to provide for their families. Frankly, that is more American than many of the 51% of people who voted for the party of free shit. American liberal kids are so scared of actually working that they rack up tens of thousands of dollars in debt for bullshit degrees, then they want me the taxpayer to pay for that. Sorry, but I'll side with the illegals, at least they work. So many people on welfare don't work and yet we are supposed to be blaming illegals for fiscal woes? Yeah that's bullshit.

Posted by: Danny at November 07, 2012 11:58 AM (YZbNi)

335 @ 319 "Social conservatism turns a lot of people off."

So does social liberalism.

And so does fiscal conservatism, for that matter.

The problem is not with this, that, or the other piece of the conservative coalition. The problem is with the country itself. And I hate to say it, but that problem is probably well nigh unfixable without a whole lot of pain and suffering for all involved.

Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 07, 2012 11:59 AM (+inic)

336
Oh, crap, you already have people indulging in shit:
You and I both know Karl Rove and Jeb Bush think he can get enough brown votes to win next time--no, he can't, not unless he thinks his brand of "conservatism" will assure them they can't continue collecting welfare checks. Those of you who don't live in Hispanic-heavy states: please, please understand that yes, it's a huge voting bloc, but it's not the Hispanics you grew up with--it's young women who have babies out of wedlock. While some of them eventually marry the father of their kids, a growing number don't. In other words, look at the black community you know and apply it to browns. Jeb Bush is under the impression that Mexicans as he knows them are conservative. No, they are not. They are Catholic in name only--baptize the kid, maybe go to one Mass a year, that's it. The conservatism he sees in many of the elderly Mexicans of the border states is non-existent in the demographics that count.
In other words, appeal to browns in order to get votes and put a guy like him in office, and what do you get to improve the lot of the country? Nada. Zip.Zero. You've just shifted one dependent class to another party. Of course, if all you are interested in in a personal sense is to get elected and not change the dysfunction of the country, you can try that, but we want an America that works, is functional.
Rubio? Okay, I have no idea if a Cuban-American who says he espouses the values I think he does will appeal to welfare-collecting brown peoples. He will get a much bigger share of the Hispanic last names than RR, but only if he isn't going up against another black or a "real Hispanic." Remember, browns will discover once they see Marco and learn of his Cuban background know that Marco is ethnically Spanish and that will matter depending on whatever opponent he might have.
We have Huckabee saying that the GOP has done a bad job of reaching out to minorities. OH, please. Is that what people in the GOP want? Get the votes of welfare moms??????? HUH? Is that what any of you really want?
This is what I want: I want TO GET RID OF WELFARE MOMS, TO cut off their source of existence, to shred their checks.
I want to get rid of baby daddys. I want a candidate that says, "No more!"
What the hell good does it do to get their votes if you can't get rid of their expense?
I was going to write more, but I'm disgusted.

Posted by: gayle in ca at November 07, 2012 12:00 PM (wgmUB)

337 #117 , #330 - THAT. The under 30 set are idiots, and I blame their parents. If you can't raise a kid to understand that people need to stand on their own two f*cking feet, get out of bed and get a f*cking job, don't envysuccessful people (try emulating instead), don't blame them for your problems, and don't try to get "revenge" on them, then you have no business breathing my oxygen.

I apologized to my kid this morning for the country I'm leaving her. She asked me, after she saw Obama telling the crowd to get revenge, what she had ever done to those people to make them hate her.

Posted by: the other coyote at November 07, 2012 12:02 PM (yK44T)

338
Look at the breakdown of singles: they are the group that put Obama in office. The marriage gap and the singles gap is twice that of the gender gap everyone worries about.
That's the gap. The growing number of unmarrieds who remain so far longer than ever...that's the gap.

Posted by: gayle in ca at November 07, 2012 12:03 PM (wgmUB)

339 Posted by: ChristyBlinky, raving lunatic about Benghazi at November 07, 2012 10:13 AM (baL2B)

Thanks, I needed to hear that.

Hold fast to what remains.

Posted by: wisenheimer who only lurks these days at November 07, 2012 12:08 PM (JEVhf)

340 11I firmly believe that Romney went to bed Monday night thinking it was in the bag. I also think Obama went to bed Monday night thinking he was beat. In the end turnout killed Romney and handed Obama an unexpected win. Both men were stunned last night for different reasons. Posted by: teebone at November 07, 2012 09:33 AM (YtLSL)I only agree with the part about Mitt Romney. I think Obama knew he had lost, especially with his puny turn-outs everywhere. However, there was a smugness about his comment on Tuesday that he had prepared both kinds of speeches and his thanking Mitt Romney for a good campaign. The first seemed a give away that he knew the fix was in and the second was so totally out of character that it felt like a give-away. (If the fix was in; I think we don't know.)I am not troubled about the fact of a loss (although I am grieved) in our representative democracy. So be it. But I think every Republican governor better True the Vote in his/her state. And I think we need some big "epidemiological" study of voters who actually voted and possible fraud. How this study could be conducted, I don't know. But it should be large and therefore it will beexpensive. It is about the scientific method here -- and Western Civilization is the only place where that preserver of truth has been developed and preserved (except with AGW). We know the failing media is socialist(administration)-controlled. We don't know about our "new" voting methods and oversight of them to keep voting honest.I also think Obama campaigned more aggressively than Romney (in a good sense -- you do what you have to do to win), and I think he addressed his (splintered) coalition on a individual basis (even though mean and small). Republicans must do both. They must treat women who choose abortions (very strictly limited) with dignity; they must treat homosexuals who want the rights of a loving partnership with dignity (doesn't have to be marriage); they must treat immigrants, however they got here, with dignity (we are a nation of immigrants) and "help" them find work and make a good life (most immigrants work bloody hard); and they must not be "morally Christian" (our founders wanted both freedom of religion and freedom from religous righteousness -- dictators of behavior). Do not sneer at people who are receiving government assistance, especially in a time of deep economic crisis. Help them to become independent with dignity. Can we have this big tent within the context of limiting government and enhancingfreedom of opportunity? I sincerely hope so. These views with the implied sneer towards so many Americans can make the current Republicans seem like an end-of-an-era "olderwhite person's" party. The reality in the states is very different -- young and vibrant; older and wiser.The electorate as a whole did not vote FOR socialism (or worse), even if a radical minority did. We are at the end of an era, deeply divided,and people need assurances that they are honored and respected in whatever new directions we take. Obama gave them assurances that they mattered -- even if he told them lies. They want acknowledgement of a safety net, but it does not have to be this current safety net. (Rich people do not need a "safety net". It is so hard for Republicans -- intelligent, talented,hard working, usually affluent --to empathize with those who are not so "well endowed". And this truly is a have or have not issue.) Let thoughtful leadership start with the states -- 30 of them. And make sure that the next Republican (or opposition to Leftist Power) is a current governor who has planned a White House run for some years and has proven leadership abilities. The crew who ran in the primaries were pathetic (as viable presidential candidates, honorable otherwise), every single one -- as was the "electorate", if that is what we can be called, who ran from flavor to flavor. (Romney was the best of the bunch in terms of preparation, but he was years out of a governorship and he did not even govern a "Republican" electorate.) If we are smart and heed thelessons of this election (and check voting fraud), 2014 can better the results of 2010 (enlarge the meaning of TeaParty -- do not get trapped by a phrase)and can set the stage for 2016. I believed from the beginning that Romney would be a transitional figure. I regret that he does not get to bring his business acumen to the current economic mess.Endings are always messy and troubling. But newbeginnings cannot happen without endings. Stand the mess and begin the clean up.

Posted by: pyromancer76 at November 07, 2012 12:09 PM (i0aYq)

341
@333

Exactly, but I'm not sure I'd go as far as the Hitler thing quite yet. People keep saying "he'll have to reach across the aisle". They're delusional. He doesn't even talk to his own guys in Congress. He doesn't even talk to his fawning press.

He already told us that this is what he was going to do. "If Congress won't act, I will". Congress will still be gridlocked. Obama will legislate through executive orders, and through regulations his agencies write.

In other words, we will have a socialist dictator for the next four years, assuming he doesn't use that power to cancel future elections.

Posted by: Optimizer at November 07, 2012 12:10 PM (Mxt9o)

342 #334. The Illegals who come and work are fine with me too. The problem is they have kids, and the kids won't work. They join gangs and collect welfare. Welcome to Texas.

My solution is a guest worker program where any kids you have while you're here aren't citizens. The problem I have with that is that we really don't need foreign workers, but it is too easy for native-born Americans who could do those jobs to do nothing, that the jobs go unfilled because why would anyone get out of bed andsweat all day, when you can maintain the same standard of living on welfare?
So long as the welfare state is propping up native born Americans who won't work, we are going to continue to have illegals coming across the border, and as long as their children are American citizens, the cycle is going to continue until it all burns down.

Posted by: the other coyote at November 07, 2012 12:10 PM (yK44T)

343
When you've got Rush praising Romney, as he is doing now, you know it's not the candidate that was the problem. (I agree the praise is deserving.)
The only thing I believed they were doing wrong is not sending Ryan to speak to college age kids at every opportunity, holding up a paycheck and explaining to them what will come out of their paychecks when and if they ever get a job.
It was still about "cool" versus a working guy.

Posted by: gayle in ca at November 07, 2012 12:12 PM (wgmUB)

344 On top of them making up more of the electorate, it's an even more pronounced shift in a number of swing states. Coloardo, Florida,possibly Virginia (up in NoVa)alllikely swung to Obama solely on the Hispanic vote and this trend is only going to continue in those states. And Nevada and New Mexico are traditional swing states that were effectively taken off the map going into this race. And I'm not sure about the make up of the Philly area but I'm sure that there is presence of Hispanics there too that add to the gap we face in that state.

Hispanicsare a very engaged demographic and turn outregardless of the makeup of the candidate; we cannot continue to lose their vote by 40%. Hispanics are very industrious and very religious, it shouldn't be hard to make a strong appeal to them, especially when you look at how Bush was able to win 44% of their vote in 2004. The promising (and sort of ironic) thing is if you look at the up-and-coming Hispanic politicans, they mostly are on our side: Marco Rubio, Ted Cruz, Susana Martinez, Brian Sandoval. I don't even think I can name one that would stand up to these names on the other side. Castro, that mayor from San Antonio? I mean, the only other names that come to mind are Menendez and Villaraigosa.

Posted by: Uncle Milty at November 07, 2012 12:15 PM (8J5Ck)

345 I mean, the only other names that come to mind are Menendez and Villaraigosa.
Posted by: Uncle Milty at November 07, 2012 12:15 PM (8J5Ck)

_________________


Meant to add that those are not exactly appealing names.

Posted by: Uncle Milty at November 07, 2012 12:17 PM (8J5Ck)

346 If nothing else, can we finally agree that Chris Christie needs to be persona non grata in the Republican Party from here on out?

No Chris Christie in 2016, or ever.

Posted by: Titus Quinctius Cincinnatus at November 07, 2012 12:25 PM (+inic)

347 #314 BINGO! I was just talking to my friend in Virginia who worked with me in the Reagan Administration. We agreed that America is now Argentina circa 1950. Complete with the new Evita jetting all over the world in her glamorous designer duds. We've seen this entire movie. It's going to end exactly the same way.
Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 11:18 AM (qe2/V)


The only good thing about that, rockmom, was that after the coup that tossed Peron out, anyone who had a picture of Juan and Eva - even if it was hidden - was tossed into jail. I'd love a coup just to put every tattooed or sign-displaying Obot into the cooler.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 07, 2012 12:26 PM (zF6Iw)

348 anti immigrant party.
Posted by: Danny at November 07, 2012 10:50 AM (YZbNi)

Fuck you. I see what you did there. We are NOT anti-immigrant. We are anti ILLEGAL immigrant. There is a difference you fucktard.

Posted by: blindside at November 07, 2012 12:32 PM (x7g7t)

349 "Regardless, we're going to have to find a way to cobble together
coalitions to win elections in the future. The Democrats are the party
of free stuff. We can't really compete with that. I'll leave this to
better minds, but I can tell you that you probably won't like where
we'll have to go to win votes. Think amnesty."

You're nuts. An amnesty will not win the Hispanic vote over to the conservative side. It will increase the size of the Democratic advantage. Stop thinking Hispanics are going to go conservative Any. Day. Now. if we just toss them a bone. It didn't happen under Reagan and it's certainly not going to happen today. Hispanic voters consistently indicate they like government handouts even more than they like immigration. This is a population that, according to the CDC, has a 50% illegitimacy rate at present. So sorry, but they're not going to turn out as social values voters either. The only reason Cubans even skewed rightward is that the older generation was disproportionately drawn or descended from the business owner class in Cuba. That doesn't apply to any other Hispanic group.

The whole reason we have the Hispanic problem is because Republicans failed at every opportunity to do anything about illegal immigration and chose instead to play the identity politics game and pandered to Hispanics rather than promote the interests of middle-class white families. Now you're watching the party descend into demographic irrelevancy unless it abandons all its conservative principles. Given what you saw last night, do you honestly think it's going to get any easier in the future to win elections?

Posted by: tommy at November 07, 2012 12:49 PM (Ufxn1)

350 re: Romney's good campaign.

Romney's campaign was vague. His image was vague, his principles were vague, his policies were vague. Only his intended results -- revive the economy, cut the deficit and provide for our national security -- were concrete, and Obama vaguely promised the same things plus free stuff! and peace! and president-of-color! and hipness!

Romney also vaguely promised to cut government regulation, which -- coming from the guy who gave Massachusetts its healthcare system -- was not the most believable promise ever made.

Either his campaign was terrible or he was a terrible candidate.

Posted by: Ken at November 07, 2012 12:59 PM (3ar4L)

351 I have lived across the street from my polling station for decades. In all those years there's rarely been a line to vote, and even when there was one, it was short. Yesterday the line was out the door, down the street, and around the corner for over two hours straight. Two poll workers I spoke with agreed with me, that they'd never seen anything like it.
Google election turnout by state 2012 and you'll get real time reports by people like secretaries of state from across the whole country affirming that turnout was unprecedented. Juxtaposed with these are late reports from MSM that turnout was millions below 2004.
NO!
Just NO.
Millions of votes have been "disappeared". I don't tend to conspiracy theories, but I trust my own eyes and reports from the ground as voting was going on. Turnout WAS up, way way up, all across the nation. So, before anything else, we have to find out how did so very many votes not get counted.

Posted by: But I DON'T butter my hair at November 07, 2012 01:20 PM (HxW7r)

352 Jesus chill out there blindside. There is a difference between illegal and legal, but for better or worse not everyone has the luxury of waiting years on a list to be let in legally. One thing I learned in the Marines is "perception=reality. Even if it doesn't." Romney wasn't a nutjob who tried to defend rape as an act of God, as Ace pointed out. But other members of the GOP did, and with the media public perception of us is that we want to be in citizens bedrooms. Likewise on immigration, public perception is that we are anti immigrant. I agree with Ace that many people in Latin America prefer socialist solutions-that I abhor-but we aren't going to win them by slamming illegals. I'm a Marine and my enemies are people like the Taliban, al-Queda and possibly the ChiComs. I don't make illegals the enemy because they are not. And for the poster talking about "helpin white middle class families" I suggest you put the country first. Ask Mark Steyn put it, white people listened to white liberals talking shit about overpopulations. Sorry if less sophisticated cultures didn't.

Posted by: Danny at November 07, 2012 01:28 PM (YZbNi)

353 Republican Enthusiasm wasn't as big as we were told. It seems a decent amount stayed home and didn't want to vote for Romney for whatever reason. I can think of a few.

Posted by: Dan at November 07, 2012 01:40 PM (/7gN/)

354 Romney RYan should have blown away McCain Palin in total votes. They had a much easier environment this time and a larger population for petes sake! WTF, maybe lots of evangelicals stayed home, or people couldnt stomach the creator of Romneycare?

Posted by: Dan at November 07, 2012 01:43 PM (/7gN/)

355 One way or the other, I'm going with a lot of people staying home because Romney is a (GASP!) Mormon.

When I lived in CA many years ago, my wife was planning a trip for the Cub Scout den to visit the Mormon Battalion monument in San Diego. Before she had a chance to bring it up, she chanced upon a conversation among some of the other mothers about Mormons that changed her mind about bringing it up. Anti-Mormon prejudice is alive and well out there. And I don't think it's among the evangelicals, methinks it is the "moderates" and "independents".

Posted by: Harold at November 07, 2012 05:22 PM (hyWkl)

356 Illegal immigrants are willing to risk their lives to cross a perilous
desert to work for next to nothing in order to provide for their
families. Frankly, that is more American than many of the 51% of people
who voted for the party of free shit.

I hate this sort of thinking: constantly confusing the hard scrabble work ethic of the developing world that disappears as soon as its necessity disappears with a culturally transmittable Puritan work ethic.

You can always find people in the Third World who will work for peanuts in the absence of a welfare system. The problem is that these very same people arrive in this country and have children who tend to do poorly at school, tend to get involved in gangs and criminal activity at high rates, tend to be disproportionately unemployed compared to the majority white population, and tend to cast their ballots for the party of free shit. Like it or not, whites are much more reliably conservative than either Hispanics or Asians and, without open borders, America would be a much more conservative country today. While Republicans engage in futile pandering to Hispanics, California is looking like our future.

Posted by: tommy at November 07, 2012 06:08 PM (Ufxn1)

357 Tommy, on the one hand I'd be lying like a SCOAMF if I said that alot of what you said isn't true. However, once upon a time back in the 16-18th centuries, much of Europe was like the 3rd world with staggering poverty and violence. Whites had and have their own issues too, and I refuse to give up and believe that Hispanics are doomed to bring down this country. Your contention that with fewer Hispanics (legal or illegal) this country would be more conservative is laughable:none other than Reagan initiated amnesty, and I have yet to party of free shit leaders that are brown like me. I do however see white liberals like Bill Clinton, Barack Obama (err half white) Hilary Clinton, etc that have done a stellar job of promising free shit. So I guess we all have dirty laundry, and as far as liberalism goes there's plenty of whites to thank for that too

Posted by: Danny at November 07, 2012 06:35 PM (YZbNi)

358 I think that if you offered US citizenship to illegals in exchange for military service (taking a page from Heinlin) that'd be a fair trade, security issues aside. Deep down, as much as I hate ideas that sound too good to be true, I almost wish we had a Heinlen system: no military service, no vote. And military service is everyones privilege.

Posted by: Danny at November 07, 2012 06:41 PM (YZbNi)

359 >>> The only thing I believed they were doing wrong is not sending Ryan to speak to college age kids at every opportunity

I see.

And that's what you think would have won the election for the GOP?

The fact millions of GOP voters stayed home and Romney-Ryan couldn't even hang on to the voters McCain-Palin had doesn't even entered into it?

You're actually serious, aren't you?

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 07, 2012 07:21 PM (SKX2R)

360 Allahpundit is one of the smartest people out there, and this is his take on it, looking at exit polls:

One question I’m seeing in the comments is, “Did evangelicals turn out for Romney”? Yep, looks that way. Turnout among Protestants generally dropped slightly from 2008 (54% to 53%) but Romney’s share of the vote increased from 54% to 57%. Among white evangelicals specifically, turnout was steady at 26% of the electorate from four years ago and Romney took 78% of the vote compared to just 74% for McCain. If you’d rather slice the data by how often people go to church, the number who attend at least weekly rose from 39% in 2008 to 42% this time. McCain won 55% of that group. Romney won 59%. He improved on McCain’s numbers among Jewish voters too, from 21% of the vote in 2008 to 30% this time (or maybe more), the highest take for a Republican since 1988. If there’s any religious group that underperformed for him, it’s Catholics. He did improve on McCain’s numbers — from 45% to 48% — but O still won a majority despite the abortion-rights jamboree at the convention and the contraception mandate. Catholic turnout was down two points this time, however.

The interest in the comments in evangelicals, I think, is due to people looking at Romney’s popular vote total and wondering where all the votes went. McCain won just shy of 60 million votes in 2008. As I’m writing this, Politico’s popular vote tracker has Romney at 57.6 million. Where’d all the votes go? Possible answer: Nowhere. They’re out there, they just haven’t been counted yet, says John Podhoretz
http://goo.gl/Gaabn

Podhoretz is also someone whose opinion I value.

I think it was and is a valid hypothesis to look at, but the tale must be told by the numbers.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 07, 2012 07:38 PM (SKX2R)

361 In once sentence you say we don't give free stuff at the end you say the solution is amnesty. If we don't give free stuff amnesty is just a bigger voting block for the liberals. Or are you saying those we give amnesty to won't want free stuff?Hell they already expect free stuff and their here illegally.

Posted by: Benson II at November 07, 2012 08:22 PM (CBpMz)

362 Ben wrote: If it turns out those 3 million people belong to a demographic that
normally votes Republican then we'll have to find a way to appeal to
them in 2016 or find a way to win without them.

I have an idea, don't run a fricking moderate who's offering the same stuff the Democrats offer and doesn't know how to explain things to the brain dead voters. I was turned off to. I wanted to see Obama embarrassed by all his lies and mistakes instead I got our candidate that everyone raved about looking more presidential than Obama. Evidently the electorate didn't get the message that looking presidential is more important than defeating your opponent with facts. Romney was McCain II and if he'd known how to win might have been a better president but he didn't. We pushed, pulled and tried to drag him over the finish line but it's the candidate that needs to be leading us over the finish line. Did you ever listen to one of Romney's speeches. Platitudes. People who wanted to oust Obama more than anything else in the world were enthused. I was never enthused but I damn well voted for him. Romney tried to lead from behind. He was never in front leading us.

Posted by: Benson II at November 07, 2012 08:39 PM (CBpMz)

363


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Change is going to start in my
home. It's really simple, that's where I go from here.



I have been blessed with great success for myself and my family. I plan to
double those efforts, with enough money, gold and other assets, to protect my
family when I am gone.



My business decisions will start to become political. What do i know about my
vendors? I will find out the political backgrounds of any employee I plan to
hire, and they will not know about it. Liberals, and the weak minded will not work
for me.



Donations to any organization that has ties to abortion or "women's
rights" will never happen again. Sorry Komen and others. You lose. Cry
about your breasts and vaginas at another doorstep.



Yep, getting personal with my politics, because now it impacts my family. Now
you are screwing with my friends' lives.



Don't like it, take your products and services down the road and sell it to a
47 percenter living off the government. See how far that will get you. Maybe he
can pay you in pot.






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Posted by: abe at November 08, 2012 10:51 PM (lDWQr)






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