Ten Reasons Why Romney Lost

I'm going to ignore obvious ones like "the media," with one exception. I'll stick to things we had control of, and one big thing no one had control of.

1. Benghazi/Candy Crowely. "Act of terror." The line Obama had prepped for, and probably tipped Candy Crowely off about in advance.

Romney's mistake here was looking as precisely what he wasn't -- unprepared. Romney is a very prepared guy, and it's generally shown throughout his campaign.

In this case, though, I think the guy tasked with prepping him for Benghazi-- and briefing him on it-- overlooked two vague mentions of "acts of terror" by Obama.

Romney got stung -- and it's based on this one exchange, and then his off-his-game-performance for the next ten minutes of the second debate -- that caused his loss in the debate. Had he watched his words more carefully, had he been prepped to say "I know, Mr. President, you're going to claim you made a vague allusion to 'act of terror'"... he would have cleanly won the second debate, too.

Further, it's my theory that Romney laid off Benghazi at this point due to this error. I think he lost confidence in the guy tasked to this issue -- embarrass me in public and I don't want to hear from you for a while -- and also figured that to continue attempting relitigating it would just keep Candy Crowley's ignorant slapdown in the public consciousness. I think he choose, wrongly, to just ignore it from this point out.

And because he was no longer pushing it as an issue, the media decided they had the pretext necessary to drop it entirely as an issue, too.

Think how differently the whole second debate would have gone -- and the third debate, too, as that began with a Benghazi question -- had the ordinarily well-prepped Romney simply known Obama made a vague reference to "act of terror."

2. Hurricane Sandy. For some reason, Hillbuzz seems to think I pulled an "Oh noez! The Hurricane will make us lose!" trip. In fact, I never mentioned the hurricane, except to note the damage it wrought several days later.

At the time, I figured it might help Obama, but I hoped it would not, so I simply refused to address a natural calamity as a "political issue." I saw Politico and all the rest doing so; I didn't.

But Sandy did let Obama look Presidential in his spiffy (brand new, not a crease in it) Air Force One bomber jacket. And Chris Christie essentially endorsed him, vouching for his prowess as a Strong and Decisive Leader of Men.

From this point, Romney swung in the polls from a +1 RCP average to being down about one, and Obama's leadership rating rose.

A Black Swan. No one predicted it. It wasn't on the schedule. But yes, I do think it moved 2% to Obama. Without Sandy, we have another week of Benghazi. We can discuss more fully the unemployment rate rising to 7.9%. No spiffy new bomber jacket.

3. Failing to Accuse Obama of Planning to Raise Taxes on the Middle Class. This one hurt. Because Obama's is running huge deficits and must do something to address this, and because he refuses to give up any socialist spending, and because his tax hikes on the rich raise only $80 billion per year, Obama must tax the middle class to fuel his lavish, gold-plated progressive vision.

But Romney didn't say so. And then Obama accused Romney of wanting to raise taxes on the middle class.

This accomplished two things: 1, now people really think Romney is going to raise their taxes to give the rich a tax cut, and 2, it insulates Obama from the truth of his own plan to raise taxes on the middle class.

And now Romney can't make the charge. He'd just sound like a copycat.

Inexcusable. This was a bad one, man.

And this gets to...

4. Not Rebutting Clinton's Outstanding, Dishonest Convention Speech. I first noticed the "Romney wants to raise taxes on the middle class" charge when it was leveled by Clinton in his soaringly false convention speech.

Romney let the charge go unrebutted. And several other crucial points as well:

1) That the economy is about to take off into a golden age, just like it did in 1996, under Clinton.

2) That Obama didn't cut Medicare; why, he actually strengthened the program!

I hate to pat myself on the back but that speech was devastating. I said Romney had to rebut it vigorously. He didn't. Obama soared after the convention, and certainly not due to his own weak, stuttering effort. It was because of Clinton's pitch.

5. Because Romney's Rich. One of my biggest problems with candidate Romney -- before I got on board -- is that I didn't trust the American people to judge a rich, successful Winner on his merits.

That they would naturally fall to the normal human state of envy.

They did.

I'm not sure what Romney could have done to avoid this. Perhaps pushed those soft-focus Story of Mitt commercials very early.

6. Going to Perry's Right on Immigration. When Perry threatened to upset Romney's applecart, Romney shook the etch-a-sketch, and committed himself to a fairly strong-form anti-accomodation policy on illegal immigrants.

"Self deportation" was the plan for the nation's illegals.

Now, understand this: I'm not against that at all. I do not want more illegal immigrants coming here and becoming citizens, not because I'm anti-brown, but because I'm anti-red. Illegal immigrants from socialist countries tend to be poor and desiring of socialist cures for their relative poverty. The other thing they seem to want is more immigrants from poor socialist Latin America countries coming here to be citizens.

This creates an impossible situation: To attract them as voters, we have to agree to permit widescale immigration from Latin America into the country. And when they become citizens, they will vote against us, because they want socialism and we despise it. The more we chase them, the further we fall behind from our actual goal of restoring a limited-government capitalist-oriented Constitutional Republic.

I don't know what can be done about this. This strikes me as the most impossible hurdle for us, and I don't mean in this election; I mean in every election to come, and each four years the problem becomes worse for us.

One tactical error Romney made, however, was committing himself so strongly to a position without any wiggle room.

In fact, Mark Krikorian, a fairly hardline guy on illegal immigration, thought that Romney could propose a "mini-DREAM act" with E-Verify and other immigration-enforcement measures which would "make sense."

But Romney never really mentioned that. He never really offered any sort of fudge or sop to Hispanics on the issue.

Hispanics made up 10% of the electorate, according to exit polls (which maybe be skewed, but it's a rough estimate). They voted against Romney 70-30; they voted against McCain 60-40. 10% of 10% is of course 1%, so it is possible that if Romney had felt more room to make a pitch for some kind of compromise, he would have added 1% to his vote tally. Which just might have won things for him.

Now, that would have brought him problems-- he might have lost some white voters over this.

But he also did not then punish Obama with white voters for talking up amnesty.

In effect, Romney was in a No Man's Land, stuck with a position that Hispanics didn't like, but also not being willing to hit Obama on his position and thus turn white voters off to him.

He may have flinched from making the sort of tough, but fair, attack on Obama needed to win, as Obama's opponents tend to do.

After all, the media will call you racist.

7. Romney Refrained From Other Tough Attacks, Too. Romney was a little too gentlemanly to make several tough attacks that Lee Atwater, for example, would have insisted on.

For example:

He never called Obama a liberal. Ever. This is a bread-and-butter Republican attack, framing an opponent, defining him. It works especially well when your opponent is, in fact, a hard-left liberal.

Never mind calling him a socialist. How about a liberal?

He also never asked Obama, even in a commercial, if he vowed he would never send the Blind Sheikh back to Egypt.

There are rumors the Administration has been in "talks" about this -- and a State Department spokesman offered a non-denial (stating we had no "plans" to do so-- plans change).

He also never pressed Obama on closing Guantanamo, and his likely plan to relocate terrorists to a state prison facility in Illinois the federal government is purchasing.

He also stopped making an issue out of Obama's gutting of the work-for-welfare requirement, even though he was 100% correct.

Liberals would call these cheap attacks. I don't, and why do liberals get to make the rules? I thought the cancer attacks were cheap. What's wrong with these?

8. Rape Abortion. It was one thing for One Lone Nut to say he'd pass a law forbidding a raped woman from taking Plan B immediately after an attack (which is a standard current treatment). It was another thing when Richard Mourdock turned this from One Guy Popping Off to a Widely Held Republican Position.

Obama had already prepared a War on Women narrative, and now we've got Senate candidates saying that God planned for women to get raped?

Let me offer this observation: If there's something you believe, but have no chance whatsoever of passing into actual law, then it's really not a political belief. Politics is not philosophy. It's about passing (or repealing) actual laws with actual real-world coercive effect.

Since not even babies which are one hour from birth are currently protected from the abortionist -- the easiest case of all to make with the public -- why the focus on the toughest of all cases? One that horrifies women -- and men, to boot?

The hardest case for pro-choicers to defend is a baby just hours away from natural birth.

The hardest case for pro-lifers to defend is the administration of Plan B to a woman who was just raped hours ago, who, if pregnant at all, is pregnant with a single-celled embryo.

Since we have not prevailed on the easy case yet, why this suicidal determination to talk about the hardest case?

Not only is unlikely abortion will be outlawed at all (especially now, with the President and Senate in Democratic hands, and new liberal justices coming in the next four years to add to the 5-vote Roe majority), but it almost unfathomable that if it gets banned 15 years from now that there will not be an exception for emergency contraception immediately following a rape.

Since there is practically no chance whatsoever of this particular policy prevailing -- probably ever -- what is the point of injecting it into politics?

Why not just say you'd support such an exception? Since you would, given that no conceivable law would fail to contain it, so it would be that way or the highway?

Again, I think there is some confusion about the need to state one's personal governing philosophy -- which has no chance of becoming actual policy -- as if it's your policy.

It may be your preferred policy; but you have no hope of obtaining it -- it's far too unpopular -- so what is the point of saying so?

Every Republican presidential candidate has allowed the three exceptions. George W. Bush -- widely thought to be a good social conservative -- actually fudged on abortion entirely, stating he was pro-life himself, but understood the nation wasn't there yet and not ready for a ban of abortion until we embraced a "culture of life."

Indiana is a bright red state. It went easily for Romney.

Missouri is now a dark red state. It also went easily for Romney.

Mourdock and Akin both lost in these layup-win states.

I hope people in the insurgent wing of the party begin to understand the difference between policy -- which the public needs to be concerned with, as it's your actual intention to pass into positive law -- and personal belief -- which the public doesn't need to care about, as you don't anticipate making it into public law.

People might think this is about the Overton Window. Weill, that sound was the Overton Window slamming hard on Akin's and Mourdock's fingers.

Leaders lead when they are just far enough in front of public opinion that the public can and will follow them.

When they are too far ahead of public opinion, so far off the public cannot even see them any longer, the public wanders off and follows someone else. At that point, he's not the leader he intended, but the aimless lone wanderer in the wilderness.

Overall, I think this Republican Own Goal cost Romney-Ryan 1% or more. Maybe as much as 3%.

The first step to reducing abortion is stopping the easier cases-- the late-term abortions. Only when the public is comfortable with that will they even consider the harder cases.

Pushing the most difficult case of all -- no abortion even in the case of forcible rape! -- pretty much guarantees abortion will be the law of the land, forever.

It's like asking for anal before a girl has even agreed to date you. Good luck getting that date.

I'm pro-choice. I've said that. So you can take this advice as advice from an "enemy" (and generally, I concede you should ignore advice from an enemy).

But I'm telling you, honestly, I cannot conceive of a political strategy better guaranteed to keep abortion on demand legal for perpetuity than spokesmen for the pro-life cause talking up forbidding even the morning-after pill immediately after a rape. Rather than talking up the easier case to make, they go right for the most difficult imaginable one.

And scare the shit out of any woman who doesn't fancy the idea of carrying a rapist's baby to term, coerced by the power of the state.

This is one of those cases where people will talk about "Principle." Principle is a personal thing. And it's intangible. It's about one's self conception and self regard. It affects nothing in the real world.

Action does. Actual tangible legislative directives.

If only principle is sought, then I suppose this is the right approach.

But in that case, pro-lifers should probably then get used to the idea of the action of keeping abortion legal in all circumstances.


9. Romney Grew Immeasurably as a Candidate. And that's a problem, in this way: By the end of the campaign, he sounded and looked like a president. He even had some charisma and some real human warmth to him.

But he didn't start that way. For most of the campaign, he was a so-so candidate with little human warmth. He often seemed like he was calculating his responses based on what he thought was in his best interests to say (probably because he probably was calculating his responses based on what he thought was in his best interests to say).

Had October's Romney been on the trail in January, we might have seen an entirely different race.

On that point, Romney made a great case against Obama -- but was only tentatively grasping at a strong positive case for conservatism. At the end of his campaign, he was groping at linking aspirations and freedom to conservative principle.

He was just getting there. He was beginning to do it.

Only near the end did he begin linking up the deadening of the spirit and the crushing of ambition inevitable in an all-powerful Father State. Only near the end did he begin to link striving to wealth, and freedom to succeed with freedom to fail.

This was always the knock on Romney -- he had a good sense of the practical, and his instincts were usually conservative, but had not yet formed a larger ideological theory to explain his beliefs.

There was a knock on John McCain -- there is no such thing as "McCainism," except for McCain's belief in his own integrity and rightness for rule. There was, then, no Idea behind McCain; just the idea that McCain, the person, was the best man for the job. (Just ask John McCain -- he'll tell you.)

Romney was similar in that "Romneyism" was really some underwarmed conservative impulses mixed with the idea that Romney is a very smart, very capable man and would be personally able to run things better. But not really a greater idea -- a capital I-Idea like Reaganism was -- beyond Romney's personal capabilities.

"Competency" has usually failed as a rationale for a would-be president. Michael Dukakis ran on it, and failed, badly. In almost all winning campaigns, there is something beyond the person to recommend him.

Romney, for all his personal attributes (which are many), really did not offer anything beyond his person. I think he's one of the most truly competent guys to run on the Competency platform. But it rarely works.

At the end of the day, the Presidency isn't just a job, and isn't just an office. It's bigger than that. It's bigger than a man. It's an idea, and it exists partly in the imagination. The imagination has to fill the gap between the man and what the office demands. Romney really didn't offer anything like that.

10. Romney Never Linked Obama To The Financial Crisis. This is also unforgivable.

Obama kept claiming, over and over, that Romney would take us back to the policies that caused this depression.

In fact, what caused the depression was the federal government pressuring banks to give loans to lightly qualified borrowers. Which inflated a bubble, and then blew up the economy.

And one of the motivators behind this policy was Barack H. Obama, both as a community organizer and then as a US Senator.

As with the middle class taxes issue, this is a double fault: Not only do you not get the advantage of the attack -- blaming your opponent for the depression -- but then he blames you instead.

This would have been a complicated case to make. But it would have been so, so helpful.

Why didn't Romney make it? I don't know.

I think there were a lot of attacks Romney avoided because he wanted to avoid scorn and derision by the press. He wanted to be gentelmanly.

He walked into the same trap McCain did, and suffered the same result.

Posted by: Ace at 12:25 PM



Comments

1 Even if Romney had done all these things right, I suspect he would have lost anyway.

Posted by: Crashpanic at November 07, 2012 12:27 PM (zU+ii)

2 When does this movie come out?

Posted by: H.L. Mencken's Ghost at November 07, 2012 12:27 PM (zTndu)

3 All true.

Posted by: Witchfinder at November 07, 2012 12:27 PM (pLTLS)

4 Roger Simon's take: http://tinyurl.com/b3sgtg6

Posted by: Witchfinder at November 07, 2012 12:28 PM (pLTLS)

5 You can't fight a parasite until you starve it.....It appears Romney could not win unless he offered more freebies than SCOAMF

Posted by: kawfytawk at November 07, 2012 12:29 PM (JWLqy)

6 Candy Crowley and Krispy Kreme Christie can horse fuck.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at November 07, 2012 12:29 PM (UOM48)

7 Yep.

Posted by: BignJames at November 07, 2012 12:29 PM (rlFQ+)

8 CBS's campaign commercial for Obama - Colin Powell's endorsement. Perfectly timed and filmed to go direct to Obama Ad

NBC'c campaign commercial for Obama - Andrea Mitchell's lie about something or other that played constantly.

Posted by: lorien1973 at November 07, 2012 12:30 PM (mcWHD)

9 Something doesn't smell right about these elections. Wasn't Mia Love up 16% in the polls on Monday? And she loses? WTF?

Posted by: RushBabe at November 07, 2012 12:30 PM (tQHzJ)

10 Isnt there a debt ceiling showdown coming up again?...I dont see how we avoid a credit downgrade, NOTHING has been done to show signs of pulling out of the 80 degree lawn dart.

Posted by: Red Shirt at November 07, 2012 12:30 PM (FIDMq)

11 The electorate is the problem, and it is going to take going over the fiscal cliff for them to wake up.

Posted by: Spike at November 07, 2012 12:30 PM (wtnmC)

12 5
You can't fight a parasite until you starve it.....It appears Romney could not win unless he offered more freebies than SCOAMF

Posted by: kawfytawk at November 07, 2012 12:29 PM (JWLqy)

I'm with you. Ace makes a lot of good points, but this was just not in the cards... Too many takers...

Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna not greg/gerg at November 07, 2012 12:30 PM (9+ccr)

13 Whatever.

We can talk about issues all day long.

The truth is, a people who have lost the understanding of what is in their own self-interest is a people just this side of suicide.

America is in very bad trouble.

Posted by: Pastorius at November 07, 2012 12:30 PM (gMAUH)

14 Let's win the language war. Let's stop calling leftists & fascists 'liberals' when they are not liberal. #LanguageWar

Keep you laws off of my body = response to Obamacare. Pro-choice = response to school choice & property rights #LanguageWar Freedom = win

Posted by: The Pitt at November 07, 2012 12:31 PM (9bWs4)

15 There are more than ten reasons. Unfortunately.

Posted by: Roy - I am John Galt at November 07, 2012 12:31 PM (VndSC)

16 you're pro-abortion, Ace? Fantastic.

Posted by: NewBrunswicker at November 07, 2012 12:31 PM (XBxRP)

17 This movie sucked.

Posted by: Waterhouse at November 07, 2012 12:31 PM (RsSRf)

18 The answer to the abortion-rape question need not be difficult. A smart pro-life candidate could turn it around the interrogator: Do leftists believe a child who was conceived as a result of rape deserves to be hated, scorned, and abused by society? I am sure many do, but I think normal people don’t.

Posted by: Gregory of Yardale at November 07, 2012 12:31 PM (QXlbZ)

19 You forgot the only one that really matters:

11) We are a nation of ticks and retards.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at November 07, 2012 12:31 PM (+lsX1)

20 Romney didn't lose it, the American electorate has lost it. F**k it, let it burn!

Posted by: Morbius at November 07, 2012 12:31 PM (1aenQ)

21 Romney lost because 50% of the country want free shit and don't pay taxes. Its as simple as that.


The rest of this is fluff.

Posted by: Vic at November 07, 2012 12:31 PM (YdQQY)

22 Totally agree Ace. The problem, I believe, is that the simple talking points get it done. 'War on Women', 'Racist Republicans', 'Rich', etc. In order to change that, you gotta fight dirty. The Democrats have successfully painted the Republican party as anti-immigration, anti-women, white, rich, old peope, evil capitalist. Whose fault is this? The Republican hiearchy. And social conservatives to a certain extent.

Posted by: Zac at November 07, 2012 12:32 PM (F6KtL)

23 17
This movie sucked.


Posted by: Waterhouse at November 07, 2012 12:31 PM (RsSRf)
Sequels usually do

Posted by: Red Shirt at November 07, 2012 12:32 PM (FIDMq)

24 11 - Well targeted voter fraud

Posted by: Smash'em at November 07, 2012 12:32 PM (7Foks)

25 "Americans" did not vote for Obama because they believed he was a good President. They voted for him because they don't know what Liberty and Self-Reliance are any more.

Posted by: Pastorius at November 07, 2012 12:32 PM (gMAUH)

26 I thought Romney ran a great race. Could not have been more of a contrast between candidates. But we don't control the press or the precincts. No voter ID? Let's see if the UN is still appalled by that today.

Posted by: t-bird at November 07, 2012 12:32 PM (FcR7P)

27 Posted by: RushBabe at November 07, 2012 12:30 PM (tQHzJ)


Same thing happened all around the country. The polls were shit

Posted by: The Dude at November 07, 2012 12:32 PM (tw6Ar)

28 The electorate is the problem, and it is going to take going over the fiscal cliff for them to wake up. Posted by: Spike at November 07, 2012 12:30 PM (wtnmC)

In general, liberals are people who cannot fathom economics.

Much of the American public is the same.

Both are about to get an education.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at November 07, 2012 12:32 PM (sbV1u)

29
Isnt there a debt ceiling showdown coming up again?...I dont see how we avoid a credit downgrade, NOTHING has been done to show signs of pulling out of the 80 degree lawn dart.


There will be no debt ceiling showdown. Crybaby Boehner MushMouth McConnell will give the JEF anything he wants.

In the spririt of bipartisanship of course.

And in the effort to keep their cushy jobs.

Posted by: Marybeth at November 07, 2012 12:32 PM (Ks0w4)

30 19 and 20 got it right.

Posted by: Pastorius at November 07, 2012 12:32 PM (gMAUH)

31 Pretty good reasons, but I still feel like Basil Fawlty in the "Germans" episode:

Maybe it's all a nightmare!
*bangs head on counter*
Nope! We're stuck with it!

Sigh

Posted by: Nighthawk at November 07, 2012 12:33 PM (n1x7a)

32 In response to my own post, why is the electorate the problem?

Media bias and education or lack thereof.

Posted by: Spike at November 07, 2012 12:33 PM (wtnmC)

33 Number 3 for the win, the dems were all over the tax rates on the middle class. It was an all out lie, but they were on it first, they were actually on a lot of things first.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at November 07, 2012 12:33 PM (NzBQO)

34 1
Even if Romney had done all these things right, I suspect he would have lost anyway.

Posted by: Crashpanic at November 07, 2012 12:27 PM (zU+ii)

This. Hell, I suspect Reagan would have lost last night. The problem isn't what Romney did or didn't do.....THE ELECTORATE IS A BUNCH OF FUCKIN' IDIOTS WHO WANT FREE SHIT!

Oh and.....ABORTION, ABORTION, ABORTION!

Posted by: Tami at November 07, 2012 12:33 PM (X6akg)

35 Here's what I'd love to see happen. I want John Boehner and Mitch McConnell to go to Obama and say, "Look, you won fair and square. The American people clearly want your leadership in this time of fiscal crisis. We just want to let you know that we pledge to vote for whatever bills you see fit to send us for the next four years. Let's do it all your way. We're here to help." I'm serious. They voted for Obama? Let's give 'em Obama. The whole load, so to speak. No half-measures or soft pastels.

Posted by: BNJ at November 07, 2012 12:33 PM (YCwn0)

36 Issues, schmissues.

There's no intellectual fix for this problem.

It's a spiritual problem. And that is only going to get worse as the Totalitarianism comes down and saps people of their will.

Posted by: Pastorius at November 07, 2012 12:33 PM (gMAUH)

37 He lost because we didn't wear vagina costumes. Start sewing people.

Posted by: The Peasants at November 07, 2012 12:33 PM (ZY1gN)

38 Thanks ace. You have done a yeoman's job of keeping us morons/ettes plugged in and fired up for our cause. It is too bad that it has turned out the way it has.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at November 07, 2012 12:33 PM (jucos)

39 One has to wonder how stupid a candidate has to be that can be caught unprepared for a MSM rape/planned parenthood/ birth control/woman's wages word trap.

Posted by: pat at November 07, 2012 12:33 PM (vY2MW)

40 The problem was not Romney! The problem is the electorate. I posted this on the earlier thread, so my apologies for the lengthy repeat, but I don't feel like summarizing or shortening.
Romney lost because we've become a nation of leeches. Somewhere along the way, we've decided that it's okay to take what's not ours. Maybe it's a byproduct of teaching children for 30+ years that there are no losers and that everyone gets a trophy. Maybe when people are more concerned about reality TV than reality, we blindly follow whoever is promising to give us the most stuff. We spend more $ per capita on education than almost any other nation, yet produce innumerable dummies. What is the last history or economics book that the average voter read? I read a quote this past weekend by an Israeli academic that said something like, "Free countries that strive for liberty, achieve equality. Free countries that strive for equality, achieve neither." I believe this to be the difference between the American and French Revolutions, and the main difference between conservatism and liberalism. The concept of America is done. It was a good run I guess. 236 years but it's now over. We've traded our freedom and liberty for what? Promises? I suggested to my girlfriend that we move to another country and she is all for it. This country left me. I feel anger and rage right now. Disappointment is too mild. I should feel terrible thinking this but I want America's inevitable destruction to be quick so the 50% that voted for him can see the consequence of their actions. Not that they would take responsibility. Of everyone that was invited to our house for thanksgiving this year, only those that voted for Romney are now welcome. I will explain to everyone else that they've taken enough from me and that I have to draw the line somewhere. If that means just my girlfriend and I, I say good. I'd rather they starve to death than take a morsel of food out of my garbage.I can no longer be friends with liberals. I can not associate with people who believe it's ok to continue taking from me. In <30 years we've gone from Reaganism to collectivism. We failed because selfishness is no longer a vice.

Posted by: Trojan at November 07, 2012 12:34 PM (MNVwR)

41 Yes that is a good list. It is also a list only political junkies like us would appreciate. None of that is why we lost. My dumb kids voted for Obama and were blissfully unaware of most of that stuff or didn't care about it. They would have voted for Obama no matter what. People know things aren't going great but they blame others for that. This is no longer a pro-freedom, capitalist nation. It is an immoral, blame the other guy nation. In that sense Obama is the perfect president for those people who are now the majority.


Posted by: Ken Royall at November 07, 2012 12:34 PM (x0g8a)

42 The people have given up the right to choose for themselves. Michelle Obama, Barack Obama and Michael Bloomberg will choose for them now.

Posted by: Pastorius at November 07, 2012 12:34 PM (gMAUH)

43 Sandy/Vaginas 2012

Posted by: El Kabong at November 07, 2012 12:34 PM (JycCV)

44 My take... The media elected obama. They covered up for him while going after Romney for Bain, not paying taxes, dog on roof and gafffffes. The deck was loaded against us...

Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna not greg/gerg at November 07, 2012 12:34 PM (9+ccr)

45 Question: If Perry, Cain, Santorum or Palin were the nominee, how would the map be any different?

Romney ran a bad campaign and is a terrible campaigner. Rubio is the answer.

Ace, you also forget to add that Ryan added absolutely nothing to the ticket

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at November 07, 2012 12:34 PM (g5liS)

46 I think Romney ran a good campaign and I respect him for it. Sure, there were a lot of things anyone could have done better. Whatever.

I think this election shows that Americans are going the way of Europeans.

Also, the media rigged the election big time.

Finally, Candy Crowley - ugh.

And Chris Christie - thanks for nothing.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at November 07, 2012 12:34 PM (6zgse)

47 Time to starve the 47%. Many of the dead do not vote. There's a lot more elbow room around here today. At least it's over. Yesterday America died. Viva the Zombie Apocalypse.

Posted by: Butters at November 07, 2012 12:34 PM (NIZHJ)

48 Trojan is RIGHT.

Posted by: Pastorius at November 07, 2012 12:34 PM (gMAUH)

49 I've seen the needle and the damage done ...

Posted by: Pastorius at November 07, 2012 12:34 PM (gMAUH)

50 Ace, you also forget to add that Ryan added absolutely nothing to the ticket

Ryan was mister invisible, for the most part. Which was odd.

Posted by: lorien1973 at November 07, 2012 12:35 PM (mcWHD)

51 >>>Let's give 'em Obama.


Right. Like in - tax the rich. In fact, go all France on them and make it 75%. That's his big excuse anyway.

Posted by: Roy - I am John Galt at November 07, 2012 12:35 PM (VndSC)

52 I'm biased because I think Clinton is a hellbound piece of pure and utter shit and don't understand what people see as his "charisma", but I think you can discount #4 - Romney went ahead of Bartokamous based on his first debate performance, which means Clinton's supposedly-amazing speech had zero long-term effect.

Posted by: Waterhouse at November 07, 2012 12:35 PM (RsSRf)

53 An excellent summary, to which I'd add a solid 5% of votes to #8. Heck, even more than 5%.

Posted by: Jess1 at November 07, 2012 12:35 PM (LwGY+)

54
Kudos, Ace. Solid job, and thanks for not going all whiny pants here.

Posted by: irongrampa at November 07, 2012 12:35 PM (SAMxH)

55
The democrats rely on low information voters who use the mfm for their news source.

Posted by: YIKES! at November 07, 2012 12:35 PM (1PE/J)

56 Wasn't Romney's fault.. sorry. A fucking GLASS OF ORANGE JUICE should have been up 10-15% in the polls against this POS. If some sort of solidarity comes out of this election...like a new "wealth producer/job creator/taxpayer" community... WE have to vote in a 90-95% block all the time - no matter what, then bully for us. If not, we're doomed.

Posted by: jwillmoney at November 07, 2012 12:35 PM (zU03n)

57 Good analysis. How do we protect ourselves from here on out?

Posted by: Scratch One Republic at November 07, 2012 12:35 PM (9ghZ6)

58 And wait for the 2016 election. Rethugs will once gain go to the MFM for debates.


They are the party of stupid.

Posted by: Vic at November 07, 2012 12:36 PM (YdQQY)

59
Nope.

Only one reason Romney lost.

De Tocqueville was right.

Takers outnumber the makers. Its.as.simple.as.that.

Posted by: fixerupper at November 07, 2012 12:36 PM (yzX2R)

60 A good analysis, ace. I'm still puzzled at the weight (and verbiage) you insist on applying to the rape/abortion thing, but at this point lack the will to even dispute it. I'll take blaming it on the American electorate for $100, Alex.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at November 07, 2012 12:36 PM (vbh31)

61 >>>It's like asking for anal before a girl has even agreed to date you. Good luck getting that date.

First laugh of the day. I love this f*cking blog.

Posted by: El Kabong at November 07, 2012 12:36 PM (JycCV)

62 Him

He came out of nowhere but you still voted for him because you wanted change. Between you and me, at first you could hardly spell his full name. Somehow he managed to win the elections and become President. He did appeal to the masses. He talked a lot even without saying anything meaningful. He had made lots of promises, but didn’t deliver any of them.

When he became president, instead of doing anything to improve the situation of the people, he did everything to improve his own position so that he could stay in power. He was supposed to stand for the little guy, but the big corporations he preached against were the ones he benefited instead. Kids would chant his name in schools like some mantra. Supporters would say his name again and again like brain dead zombies. No one understood what he was really all about, he never said it in the first place, but charisma, millions in campaign marketing would do the trick.

The man who was supposed to bring change and for once take the side of the working class ended up repeating socialist blabber on one side, and handing tax payers money to mega corporations on the other. He made sure to milk the middle class as much as possible so as to redistribute it fairly. To him, that would mean giving the biggest chunk of the pie to corporations and then throwing scraps through welfare programs that benefitted him politically, forcing the will of the people with handouts. Whenever he could he would strike against individual liberties. Any form of criticism was no longer considered a natural consequence of debate and observations, but an unpatriotic act that shouldn’t be accepted. Soon enough, you noticed that less and less people criticized him. Even celebrities didn’t dare speak against him, some afraid of being shunned by their peers, who would never accept someone “from the other side”, others were simply in his payroll in one way or another.

When the time came to vote again, people just didn’t learn the lesson. Some couldn’t live without uncle sugar´s money, he made sure of that during his first term. It didn’t matter that the opposition had been demonized, that he had created a new kind of politics, of hatred and revenge.

I was as if no one noticed that he had turned a once proud nation into a shadow of its former, glorious self. He simply was unworthy of the Presidency he held. Seems people wanted more of that, and went out and chose that again through their vote. The damage done will take decades to undo. In the end, we got the country we deserved. His name was Nestor Kirchner and he destroyed my country.

Surviving in Argentina
http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2012/11/him.html?m=1

Posted by: hauntedman at November 07, 2012 12:36 PM (448H4)

63 One has to wonder how stupid a candidate has to be that can be caught unprepared for a MSM rape/planned parenthood/ birth control/woman's wages word trap.
Posted by: pat


As stupid as half of the electorate.

Posted by: Roy - I am John Galt at November 07, 2012 12:36 PM (VndSC)

64 Yeah, there's all that.

Posted by: jeanne, in full escapist mode at November 07, 2012 12:36 PM (GdalM)

65 Trojan,

I'm absolutely with you.

You should read

www.ibloga.blogspot.com

today.

Posted by: Pastorius at November 07, 2012 12:36 PM (gMAUH)

66 Ryan's future political career is mainly dead. He can go for the senate but there is no point as he is in a good house position. Thank God Ryan was the sacrificial lamb and not Rubio

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at November 07, 2012 12:36 PM (g5liS)

67 When you running, Ace?

Posted by: Ace's Anus at November 07, 2012 12:37 PM (wWrHp)

68 11 The electorate is the problem, and it is going to take going over the fiscal cliff for them to wake up.
Posted by: Spike at November 07, 2012 12:30 PM (wtnmC)


"Most of them were wearing their first good pair of boots. They'd be ready to listen when the boots wore out."

Levgrav Zhivago

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 07, 2012 12:37 PM (HKONC)

69 Romney didn't lose. The electorate failed.

The people failed.

Posted by: eleven at November 07, 2012 12:37 PM (KXm42)

70 Very astute and prescient analysis

Posted by: Steven W. at November 07, 2012 12:37 PM (R9C6I)

71
I think Ryan was a really good candidate.

The problem is, 1/2 of America sticks their fingers in their ears and says "La La La, I can't hear you" when he's talking about the debt.

They'd rather watch American Idol and Honey Boo Boo

Posted by: Marybeth at November 07, 2012 12:37 PM (Ks0w4)

72 They ran the best candidate available. Half of the 53% can't prevail against the other half + the 47% of welfare sows.

Posted by: Butters at November 07, 2012 12:37 PM (NIZHJ)

73 I'll say it -

The Dems feel about as good as Republicans did when Nixon was reelected.

If Benghazi means *anything* - the Republicans in the House need to find out.

Get ready for President Biden.
_

Posted by: BumperStickerist at November 07, 2012 12:37 PM (RuUvx)

74 I know people who are more conservative than me, but don't vote for the GOP for various reasons. We need to fight for the urban areas. We need to put the religious nut jobs on the short bus with Huckabee in the distant back of our procession.

We can win those we believe in freedom and people that are sick of cronyism and corruption. People want effective and sustainable govt. But most people do not follow things closely as us folks. We need to win the language and culture wars, and fight for the population centers. Do you really believe inner city minorities love shitty public schools?

Breitbart is right.

Posted by: The Pitt at November 07, 2012 12:37 PM (9bWs4)

75 The problem, folks, was that however many people voted for Romney in Ohio and Florida, 40,000 more were going to vote for Obama. The fix was in.

Posted by: occam's brassiere at November 07, 2012 12:37 PM (N9z1W)

76 Further, it's my theory that Romney laid off Benghazi at this point due to this error. I think he lost confidence in the guy tasked to this issue -- embarrass me in public and I don't want to hear from you for a while -- and also figured that to continue attempting relitigating it would just keep Candy Crowley's ignorant slapdown in the public consciousness. I think he choose, wrongly, to just ignore it from this point out.

____________________

Well--after the VP debate when the MSM would not even cover how Biden lied about voting for two wars...

Might have realized the media was going to go into lock down mode.

Also the Romney ticket was weak on national defense.

I said on Feb. 3rd--watch the crisis this time be National Security--instead of the economic crisis that hit McCain who was weak on economics.

This time we had the exact invert of that.

Also the convention was bad on this issue.

The first person to really mention the wars was Clint Eastwood--and he mentioned them as a lost cause and was winging it.

We have perhaps permanently ceded the National Security issue to Democrats.

Now is that Romney's fault?

I don't know.


Terrorism has a long time line--it wore Republicans out.

The media put Republicans trying to fight terrorism under the microscope and conversely let Democrats play in the killing fields.

That's actually how Rwanda was ignored--that same dynamic.

Nad, in the end Republican voters did not show up--we defeated ourselves.

We let the BDS that came with terrorism and the media's sickness destroy about all of it.

The media and America left Tyrone Woods who saved Obama's bacon--by preventing Obama from going The full "Hostage Crisis" Carter--

out to die.

And no one will remember his name.

The MSM will make sure of that.

Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 12:37 PM (r2PLg)

77 The only thing I know anymore is that this utopia costs money we don't have.

There were a lot of decisions dependent on the outcome of this election, from countries, major corporations to small businesses, to individuals. This election makes it clear to everyone all over the world that the USA is not serious about avoiding DOOM and people will act accordingly.

This is going to unravel in short order.

Posted by: runninrebel at November 07, 2012 12:37 PM (J4gw3)

78 Right. Like in - tax the rich. In fact, go all France on them and make it 75%. That's his big excuse anyway.

Posted by: Roy - I am John Galt at November 07, 2012 12:35 PM (VndSC)

The French president also wants the raise the national sales tax to help pay for all that free shit.

Posted by: YIKES! at November 07, 2012 12:37 PM (1PE/J)

79 He didn't run a good campaign if fewer people came out to vote for him compared to McCain 4 years ago.

Posted by: mig0 at November 07, 2012 12:37 PM (WQ0ni)

80 Take it for what it's worth, but there are a fair # of people out there who would vote Republican until they hear the fingers on the chalkboard when guys like Akin and Mourdock open their mouths. They'll take the tax hit as long as they keep cretins like these guys (and their party) out of office.

Posted by: SFGoth at November 07, 2012 12:38 PM (dZ756)

81 Ok. I agree with everything up there. But I would add, where the fuck where the 5 million republicans that voted for McCain that didn't vote for Romney? That makes absolutely no sense at all. None.

So I guess yesterdays record turnout wasn't?

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 07, 2012 12:38 PM (t06LC)

82 You selfservingly forget something important, ace: The GOP cannot wage a libertarianish single-issue campaign focussing on the economy and win. We probably neglected a big part of our base -people that loved to vote for Palin and Bush for their social conservative appeal - by treating the things they care about as mere distractions.

Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 07, 2012 12:38 PM (bonPh)

83 GOP should have run Ham Sandwich for President

Posted by: The Dude at November 07, 2012 12:38 PM (tw6Ar)

84 "I'll stick to things we had control of"

You missed one.

There are certain things that every professional campaign manager must learn to tell their candidate from now on. And that Romney's campaign professionals should have taught him, but did not.

We are now in a new and frightening world of radical transparency, as least as it applies to rightist candidates.

What Romney did was get up in front of a large gathering of people, not all of whom were known and trusted people, and run his mouth extemporaneously, and among the things that came out (most of which was anodyne) was one remark, about "the 47%", which Romney's adversaries were able to use against him very productively.

Here's the lesson. The concept of talking in private DOESN'T EXIST ANY MORE. Except perhaps when a candidate is alone in bed with their own spouse, and perhaps not even then.

Romney's campaign staff let him talk "off the record" with these wealthy donors, while the room was filled with service staff. In other words, not off the record at all. It's pretty clear that his comments were blown by one of those staffers.

Every single thing a candidate says, even behind supposedly closed
doors, can and will get out into the infosphere, in an age of ubiquitous
smartphones. Campaigns must be aware of this and must insist that candidates act accordingly.

I hate this. It's reality. Reality doesn't care if you hate it or not.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 07, 2012 12:38 PM (ymG7s)

85
Romney lost because Republicans didn't turn out, not because he didn't cater to Democrats on immigration, taxes, vaginas.

The question is why didn't Republicans turn out? The only reasonable explanation I see is that Romney sucked as a candidate/campaign organizer.

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at November 07, 2012 12:38 PM (Rwrs+)

86 I think Rubio is the answer as in it plays to the Democrats genius game of race-politics. Forget whose turn it is. Paul Ryan? Nice guy, but you're white and in today's society, that's a problem because apparently people agree with you about how the economy needs to be fixed, but 'WHITE! 'BIGOT!' wins out to the masses of blacks, latinos, and women. So find me a black and a latino to run on the ticket for 2016. We need to play race-politics as well.

Posted by: Zac at November 07, 2012 12:38 PM (F6KtL)

87 fuck, 8 and 10 are correct.

I dismissed rape abortions. yolks on me.

I was nervous about nice guy Mitt. Oh well.

I thought we had the I's. No, they stayed home. 13M less voters this time around. poof.

Posted by: joeindc44 will start talking like biden. like. biden. at November 07, 2012 12:38 PM (QxSug)

88 I think many of the things you mentioned was him trying to draw Indies and moderates in. The Indies who did and still do blame Bush for the economy make it hard for him to call Obama out on it, for instance.


We're now officially a nation of layabouts and takers, and there ain't much that can be done about that.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 07, 2012 12:38 PM (2rMmy)

89 I think Mitt ran a damn good campaign.

I"m in the camp that the electorate has changed, and we are Europe.. It's far easier to trade freedom for (temporary) security (stuff), and people here are taking the path of least resistance.

There's a reason for bread and circuses. The rot from within destroyed the Romans, and the rot within has destroyed us.

My wife teaches at a low income middle school in Oregon. The kids honestly believe the rich have to give them stuff. The concept of work, sacrifice, and personal achievement are alien to them. They have no role models, they hear it constantly in school and see it on TV all the time.

We (not we morons), but the US deserves the impending collapse.

And it would be better as a collapse, instead of a gradual decline. A collapse might shock people to change, a slow decline over 20-30 years, and our grandkids will think it normal to not drive, be dependent on the gov for food, shelter and all their needs. They will be sheep looking to the government for everything. It'll be no better the the USSR.

Looking seriously at an exit strategy. Trouble is where.

Posted by: Francis at November 07, 2012 12:38 PM (7/lMx)

90 I'd add a solid 5% of votes to #8. Heck, even more than 5%

That's ludicrous.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at November 07, 2012 12:39 PM (vbh31)

91 About that debt ceiling Obama now has more flexibility. If you think Mitch and John are going to stand in his way. It's not going to happen. Even if they pretend too they will cave. Zero is going to gut the military even more and not even touch entitlements. Why would he when he just added one. The money will come from the military and all the new taxes that are coming.

Wait til those Bush tax cuts expire. Everybody thinks only the rich are going to be affected.

Posted by: Wi Lurker at November 07, 2012 12:39 PM (9pqWr)

92 I agree with a lot of these points. #8 especially. The GOP needs to move away from the Social Conservative crap. It doesn't win any votes. Instead, it drives away independent voters. How many millions of voters did Obama lose from the last election? If they didn't vote for him this time, why didn't they vote for Romney? Probably because the lunatic-nutjob fringe said lunatic-nutjob things on the record and it made them hate both parties instead of just one.

Posted by: FPW at November 07, 2012 12:39 PM (BDNF5)

93 Number 3 and I guess 4 since it is related are the ones I had been thinking all along.

People only think of income taxes, but the middle class is going to be hit with massive "living expense taxes" as I like to call them. Sin taxes, gas taxes, carbon taxes, The Evil VAT, and the ultimate but hidden tax of inflation.

Good analysis Ace.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 07, 2012 12:39 PM (PHb2k)

94 Yeah, pretty much. And for those who think that Romney was a lousy candidate, my response is: compared to whom? Michele Bachmann? Newt Gingrich? Ron Paul? Rick Santorum? Rick Perry? Herman Cain? Jon Huntsman? Can you argue with a straight face that any of those other seven would not have been destroyed by Obama and the media? ..fritz..

Posted by: fritzworth at November 07, 2012 12:39 PM (7svyX)

95
We greatly underestimated the size of The Free Shit Army.

This will not end well.

Posted by: Jaws at November 07, 2012 12:39 PM (4I3Uo)

96 I don't know about the immigration issue. It was never made an issue in debates or any other time from what I could tell.

The hispanics are big on immigration? What do they want, exactly?

Posted by: joeindc44 will start talking like biden. like. biden. at November 07, 2012 12:39 PM (QxSug)

97 I say we start running campaigns like Democrats in reverse, run as a Liberal then once elected..vote conservative.

Posted by: beerologist at November 07, 2012 12:39 PM (CdhVC)

98 It is not just takers. It is haters. Academia and the MSM have been painting whites, America, and businesses as the enemy for years. There is no being as stupid as a white male, particularly a normal one. There is nothing so cool as a black gangster or a Mexican comic. And everything we have, we stole. From the Mexicans, Indians and Blacks, who really built America.

Posted by: pat at November 07, 2012 12:39 PM (vY2MW)

99 re: Ace's running for office

The cobs are planning a Kickstarter fund-raising drive starting in March to get ace a new identity - one that cannot be linked to his past writings.

The top donor gets naming rights for "New Ace"

I'm thinking Flint Puddingsack.

_

Posted by: BumperStickerist at November 07, 2012 12:39 PM (RuUvx)

100 @81

Romney was mormon, this turned off a lot of evangelicals and hispanics. My grandparents in CO who are hispanic didnt vote for him cause he is a mormon

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at November 07, 2012 12:40 PM (g5liS)

101 Because the American public decided that FreeShit > FreeDom.

Gonna have to do what I did in the 90's... ignore politics completely. I'll stroke out otherwise.

Posted by: hindmost at November 07, 2012 12:40 PM (t6Jvs)

102 94
Yeah, pretty much. And for those who think that Romney was a lousy
candidate, my response is: compared to whom? Michele Bachmann? Newt
Gingrich? Ron Paul? Rick Santorum? Rick Perry? Herman Cain? Jon
Huntsman? Can you argue with a straight face that any of those other
seven would not have been destroyed by Obama and the media? ..fritz..

Posted by: fritzworth at November 07, 2012 12:39 PM (7svyX)

Agreed...

Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna not greg/gerg at November 07, 2012 12:40 PM (9+ccr)

103 We're going to need a bigger trough and some more teats.

Posted by: NCKate at November 07, 2012 12:40 PM (MsQkt)

104 We are well and truly fucked. Who cares why. I no longer give a shit.

Posted by: Mr pink at November 07, 2012 12:40 PM (ty0pA)

105
"One has to wonder how stupid a candidate has to be that can be caught unprepared for a MSM rape/planned parenthood/ birth control/woman's wages word trap.
Posted by: pat
As stupid as half of the GOP leadership"
.
. FIFY

Posted by: Jess1 at November 07, 2012 12:40 PM (LwGY+)

106
You Republicans are in self-denial. The USA is no longer made up of just a lot of white men in power. The demographics have changed and until you wake up and deal with it, you will continue to gain an increasing share of a declining market - which is the surest way to bankruptcy and liquidation. The last buggy whip company undoubtedly made the best buggy whip ever, but no one was buying it because nobody needed buggy whips anymore.
Welcome to the 21st century.

Posted by: carlito at November 07, 2012 12:40 PM (WFKaI)

107 He wanted to be gentelmanly.


Such is the curse of being LDS.


Unless your Harry Reid.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at November 07, 2012 12:40 PM (kqqGm)

108 " He never called Obama a liberal. Ever. This is a bread-and-butter Republican attack, framing an opponent, defining him. It works especially well when your opponent is, in fact, a hard-left liberal.

Never mind calling him a socialist. How about a liberal?"

Can't do that anymore. When kids are brainwashed into liberal means free, conservative means control, it is now a losing argument. Fascist is a powerful word. The GOP should embrace classic liberals, and work hard define why they are different than leftists.

#LanguageWar Let's stop shooting ourselves and start taking aim at the fascist left!

Posted by: The Pitt at November 07, 2012 12:40 PM (9bWs4)

109 When does this movie come out?


Saw it. Hated it.

Posted by: fluffy at November 07, 2012 12:40 PM (z9HTb)

110 Its easy to play Monday morning quarterback.

I agree with most of these points, but they're retrospective. Nobody runs the table and plays every issue 100% correctly. Would Romney have done better had he done things differently? I think so. Is it reasonable to expect any candidate to play every card and every hand perfectly? No, probably not.

You could just as easily look at Obama's campaign and pick out ten
things he did wrong that cost him votes too (eg showing up to the first
debate clueless, wasting money and effort in NC, etc).

Romney was a strong candidate, I think the best one the GOP had from the field this cycle. But Obama had a ridiculously, and perhaps unprecedented media compliance, and he had a literal "act of god" on his side in the last week.






Posted by: Looking closely at November 07, 2012 12:40 PM (PwGfd)

111 Rubio will not draw any Latinos that wouldn't have been Conservative to start with. Susan Martinez might draw a few women, and maybe a tad more Latinos because she's Mexican, but a Cuban ain't moving the Hispanic vote to the Right.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 07, 2012 12:40 PM (2rMmy)

112 The Six Pack Effect- The candidate that the average non-partisan voter would rather share a six pack with almost always wins.

The "Romneybot" thing? It was a meme for a reason. Nearly all presidential candidates are rich, but if they can come across as "one of us", it's no big shakes.

While Mitt did improve greatly in the charisma department (especially compared to 200, it wasn't enough. Even voters who didn't agree with GWB voted for him anyways because he had a down home, folksy, "says what he means, means what he says" aura about him.

Romney didn't. He came across as very "presidential", but insufficient when it came to someone the average voter could relate to.

Benghazi-gate? The debt? Mere trifling details. Swing voters vote for the man and their own vague feelings. They're not policy wonks.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 07, 2012 12:41 PM (SY2Kh)

113 yeah, if the evangelicals are going to stay home, don't saddle us with rape-abortions. rabortions?

Posted by: joeindc44 will start talking like biden. like. biden. at November 07, 2012 12:41 PM (QxSug)

114
The problem is, 1/2 of America sticks their fingers in their ears and says "La La La, I can't hear you" when he's talking about the debt.

=====
Or. "he's lying, it's all lies, he just stood there and lied for 90 minutes" (I actually heard this.)

Posted by: Scratch One Republic at November 07, 2012 12:41 PM (9ghZ6)

115 Ten reasons, and because half the people want free shit. But mostly because half the people want free shit.

Posted by: Dante at November 07, 2012 12:41 PM (NWLVJ)

116 It was Akin and abortion. plain and simple. the ads ran everywhere in every race, and it's clear women were listening.

Romney ran a fine campaign, and actually outperformed many GOP Senators in deep red states.

If these Senate seats had gone GOP but Romney had lost, I think you could make the case of "Romney should have done this or that" but the GOP loss was across the board in traditional red states.

Posted by: McAdams at November 07, 2012 12:41 PM (ZI/Cb)

117 @Pastorius
Thanks brother. I'll check it out.

Posted by: Trojan at November 07, 2012 12:41 PM (MNVwR)

118 I noticed too, that he never call O a liberal.

Posted by: joeindc44 will start talking like biden. like. biden. at November 07, 2012 12:41 PM (QxSug)

119 And as I said earlier after the idiot was on Fox, pandering to non-Cuban Hispanics is not going to get us anywhere. All it will do is decrease turnout among the base even more.

Obama dropped 10M votes from 2008 and still won. Why? Because the Repub also dropped about 2M votes.


The 64K question is "who sat at home?" because a lot of Repubs sat at home for McCain and even more did for Romney.


We will have to wait and see what the exit polls and the swing State totals are.

Posted by: Vic at November 07, 2012 12:42 PM (YdQQY)

120 Every year the free shit army will grow. I hope the new Chinese Overlords know what they are getting in to.

Posted by: Butters at November 07, 2012 12:42 PM (NIZHJ)

121
We need a young Dick Cheney type that's not afraid to curb stomp a leftist candidate.

Posted by: YIKES! at November 07, 2012 12:42 PM (1PE/J)

122 80 Take it for what it's worth, but there are a fair # of people out there who would vote Republican until they hear the fingers on the chalkboard when guys like Akin and Mourdock open their mouths. They'll take the tax hit as long as they keep cretins like these guys (and their party) out of office.
Posted by: SFGoth at November 07, 2012 12:38 PM (dZ756)


I believe it.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 07, 2012 12:42 PM (HKONC)

123 86

I think Rubio's perfectly qualified (although I don't know the specifics of his foreign policy, supposedly super-neoconnish but who knows, maybe the GOP will start more obviously talking up a "humble" foreign policy these days) but we have to go beyond "nominate X minority" to make inroads there.

that doesn't mean, capitulate on the immigration issue (Ace mentioned this in the post -- we can't outbid the Dems and working-class people's complaints here are not simple "xenophobia" much as the Left would like to frame it that way) but...something. it could just be a byproduct of appealing to more people in general.

Posted by: JDP at November 07, 2012 12:42 PM (60GaT)

124 The GOP needs to move away from the Social Conservative crap. It doesn't win any votes.

Good plan. Where do you plan to make up the 25+ million difference?

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at November 07, 2012 12:42 PM (vbh31)

125 DO NOT BUY INTO OBAMACARE.

Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 12:42 PM (jQm+J)

126 The al-Media is the biggest, of course. As to Sandy, that RNC "keynote speaker" asshole Christie gave the JEF a big swing, in Gallup at least. Letting Barky define Romney with $100+ in slam ads in the battleground states early on seemed to stick as well. Oh, and the 47% comment.

Color me curious on this, however: Why the low turnout, I mean ten million or so? Less than McCain? GTFOOH.

The saddest part is that Romney is a really good man as well as the right numbers guy for the times. I was so jazzed with the numbers and people like Barone opining a mandate for good change. I am so devastated and saddened for this great country.

Off to work now. Say your prayers morons. And thanks Ace and all for your efforts.

Posted by: eureka! at November 07, 2012 12:42 PM (UL+ny)

127
'Romney was mormon, this turned off a lot of evangelicals and hispanics. My grandparents in CO who are hispanic didnt vote for him cause he is a mormon'

Not shocked. My buddy is really conservative and said he wasn't voting for Romney because he was Mormon. Apparently, believing a different sect is a major fucking problem for those social cons, but thinking government should be your nanny?? No fucking problem with that!

Posted by: Zac at November 07, 2012 12:42 PM (F6KtL)

128 The last buggy whip company undoubtedly made the best buggy whip ever,
but no one was buying it because nobody needed buggy whips anymore.



Are you saying that freedom is obsolete?


Thanks, O'Brien.

Posted by: fluffy at November 07, 2012 12:42 PM (z9HTb)

129 115 Ten reasons, and because half the people want free shit. But mostly because half the people want free shit.
Posted by: Dante at November 07, 2012 12:41 PM (NWLVJ)



Yep.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 07, 2012 12:43 PM (2rMmy)

130 I would like to say that some of your suggestions would have made a difference, Ace, but the very fact that a large number of Americans would even consider TFG after everything he has done tells me all I need to know. This is not the same electorate that embraced Reagan or even Bush 43.

Posted by: 80sBaby at November 07, 2012 12:43 PM (YjDyJ)

131 @111
Bush got more than 40% latinos. 2008 was a wave election so McCain's positions didnt matter and Romney sucked at campaigning and put himself in a box in the primaries

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at November 07, 2012 12:43 PM (g5liS)

132 biggest thing to me that stuck in my craw and has since 2008, it came up in second debate. The "please, Romney don't be Bush" question.

Romney's answer was good but not great because he and the GOP never defend bush from even the dumbest arguments.

Collapse was not bush tax cut fault. Romney needed to criticize O's thinking on "we tried that" by saying that was stupid.

oh well.

Posted by: joeindc44 will start talking like biden. like. biden. at November 07, 2012 12:43 PM (QxSug)

133 Good list. I guess Christie was just looking to be the piece of fatback in an Obama/Springsteen sandwich. He's a damn Judas, who at least had the decorum to hang himself afterward.

Posted by: Motorhead at November 07, 2012 12:43 PM (qAMin)

134 "The USA is no longer made up of just a lot of white men in power"

Barack Obama, Joe Biden, Leon Panetta, David Petraeus, Tom Donlin, John Brennan, James Clapper, Tim Geithner...ok tokens Hillary Clinton and Eric Holder.

White men are doing just fine, powerful as ever, in 21st century America.

Posted by: occam's brassiere at November 07, 2012 12:43 PM (N9z1W)

135 @100
I was thinking that.

Fuck, I would have spot on agreed with everything here save for the fact that 04 looks like our high water mark now, and that was a very social issue race. If yesterday taught me one thing, its libertarianism is dead. It relies on responsibility.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 07, 2012 12:43 PM (t06LC)

136
Ace,
You're advice from the enemy on abortion is understandable, but ultimately useless, precisely because of what abortion represents.
I've written you extensively. You know my position. You know that I think Akin's biggest problem there was that he thought he was entitled to facts that simply are not true (Plan B as an abortifacient, "Shutting it down." etc.)
HOWEVER, having said that. For those of us who are pro-life it's not as simple as discerning the cases into "easiest" and "hardest." It's life, there are no easy cases, only hard ones. So to be philosophically consistant we have to believe that abortion even in the case of forcible rape is tantamount to murder. Life the mother exceptions as typically interpreted (and realize I'm coming from a Catholic Perspective here.) are usually made in a "Double Effect" style of thinking (i.e. it's a forseen but not intended effect that is unavoidable.) Very rarely you'll see some proportinalist thinking, but mostly it's straight up double effect.
This is percisely why we can't seperate out the "politics" from the "personal belief." It'd be comprable to saying "well, I'm opposed to the Muslims murding people, but I can't get a coaltion to stop it, so whatever." (That's not even really an exaggeration.)
But we're losing on Euthanasia too, so I'm thinking the "culture of life" thing is a lost battle. (It might be easier to concede that one I suppose. Because it's less philosophicaly inconsistant and more "you're all just corrupt.")

Posted by: tsrblke at November 07, 2012 12:43 PM (GaqMa)

137 #6 Ace is dead on.

We could try to talk about Immigration without smearing a whole segment of the population but we never can manage it.

Michele Malkin is not your friend.

Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 12:44 PM (r2PLg)

138
Minorities.
We need 'em, they have 'em.

Posted by: Scratch One Republic at November 07, 2012 12:44 PM (9ghZ6)

139 Hahahahhaah Rush is now saying this wasn't a conservative campaign and that's why Romney lost...HAHAHHA
HAHAHAHHAAH
HAHAHAHAHHAA
HAHAHAHAHAHJAAHJA
we are fucked

Posted by: Mr pink at November 07, 2012 12:44 PM (ty0pA)

140 I noticed too, that he never call O a liberal.

Posted by: joeindc44 will start talking like biden. like. biden. at November 07, 2012 12:41 PM (QxSug)



He's a fucking commie with a media cheering section

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 07, 2012 12:44 PM (1Jaio)

141 "I'm going to ignore obvious ones like "the media," with one exception."

Ignore that and you're ignoring the only one that counts. If the media gave Obama one-tenth the scrutiny and venom it gave Romney, Obama loses. Period.

Posted by: Who cares at November 07, 2012 12:44 PM (Xv7f/)

142 How about (11: The moderates have again shoved a RINO to their liking down the throat of the base - and the base didn't show up.

Even of those who did show uo - nobody voted for Romney. All of them (yes, even you) voted against Obama. And that's not enough to win.

Independents didn't show up either, despite the premise you 'moderates' sold us that a moderate is electable because he won't repell indies. He didn't repel them, but they stayed home anyway for the lack of interest. They don't like Obama, but Romney isn't good enough to make them stand in voting lines.

All in all - you lost. Us. The. Elections. Second. Time. In. A. Row.

And you still blame the "so-cons" for some individual candidate speech. Lowlife.

Posted by: Darzi the Elder at November 07, 2012 12:44 PM (EJG9c)

143 There are a lot of theories out there and nobody can really know the facts just yet, but I can say one thing for certain: flapjackmaka can suck the shit out of my asshole and choke on it until he drowns in a puddle of feces, offal, and his own regurgitated stomach bile.

Surely we can all agree on this.

Posted by: Jeff B. at November 07, 2012 12:44 PM (GzATR)

144 >>>Do leftists believe a child who was conceived as a result of rape deserves to be hated, scorned, and abused by society? I am sure many do, but I think normal people don’t

if by "normal" people you mean 20% or less, sure.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 12:44 PM (LCRYB)

145
the #1 reason Romney failed
the thing thats wrong with this country is the electorate and that can'tbe fixed at the ballot box

Posted by: kj at November 07, 2012 12:44 PM (AW9md)

146 One thing we DEFINITELY need to do this cycle, so long as we control more State Gov'ts than before, is put the kibosh on election fraud.

I'm talking serious anti-fraud measures, including microscopic level examination of absentee and early balloting.

I don't know how much fraud was a factor here, but it could conceivably have been enough to tip both FL and OH, and it most definitely wasn't acting in the GOP favor.


Posted by: Looking closely at November 07, 2012 12:44 PM (PwGfd)

147 Obamacare was purposely backloaded until after TFG's first term

I can't wait to see the reactions of the free lunch crowd when they find out they MUST purchase insurance under the law

"But... but ... it's supposed to be FREE! I blame Republicans and evil insurance companies!"

Posted by: kbdabear at November 07, 2012 12:44 PM (wwsoB)

148 can we zap 120?

Not cuz he's totally wrong, just that, as mentioned, I dun' like taking advice from my enemies. Cuz I'm bitter. And clingery.

Posted by: JDP at November 07, 2012 12:44 PM (60GaT)

149
You Republicans are in self-denial. The USA is no longer made up of just a lot of white men in power. The demographics have changed and until you wake up and deal with it, you will continue to gain an increasing share of a declining market - which is the surest way to bankruptcy and liquidation. The last buggy whip company undoubtedly made the best buggy whip ever, but no one was buying it because nobody needed buggy whips anymore.
Welcome to the 21st century.


This is exactly what I'm talking about. He doesn't even get to the third sentence without making it about race. I blame not this guy, but the Republican party in general for not seeing this ten or fifteen years ago.

Posted by: Zac at November 07, 2012 12:44 PM (F6KtL)

150 Romney Never Linked Obama To The Financial Crisis. Why didn't Romney make it? I don't know.

Because he would have had to distance himself from Bush, both in terms of policy and in explicit detail.

Bush was a part of the Federal clusterfuck that lead to the 2008 credit crunch. I know we feel the need to protect Bush in this but he was at the helm, he held interest rates down for 7 years, the 'ownershit' society was his baby, and compassionate conservatism had a goddamn price tag.

Romney avoided a single fucking mention of any of this.

We shouldn't be surprised that voters accepted Obama's conflation of the two men.

Posted by: burned cut-loop at November 07, 2012 12:45 PM (jo069)

151 2.5 million less votes than McCain! The dirty secret is that a significant number of people aint gonna vote for some Mormon cult member and his magic shorts.

Posted by: rib at November 07, 2012 12:45 PM (PwPRT)

152 Jay Carney, Robert Gibbs, David Axelrod, David Plouffe...my god, it never stops with these white guys running things.

Posted by: occam's brassiere at November 07, 2012 12:45 PM (N9z1W)

153 I also don't understand how an "it's the economy, stupid," election got turned on stupid abortion issues that didn't exist.

Posted by: joeindc44 will start talking like biden. like. biden. at November 07, 2012 12:45 PM (QxSug)

154 Fight with me, my friends.

Posted by: Mittens McCain at November 07, 2012 12:45 PM (S/ps/)

155
"Looking seriously at an exit strategy. Trouble is where."

I honestly think it's time for someone to start talking about a trial seperation /divorce/pilot program/ whatever you want to call it within the CONUS. Just some form of autonomy free of the US FedGov where people can voluntarily go live their lives as free men.

If it isn't offered peacably, it'll eventually be demanded under great strain and cost of blood. It's gonna get bad.

Posted by: Jaws at November 07, 2012 12:45 PM (4I3Uo)

156 Great analysis, Ace. No. 10 is the one that really fucking pisses me off though.

The GOP had four years to come up with an "elevator pitch" explanation of how a consortium of corrupt or clueless leftists caused this shit with the criminal behavior in the mortgage and finance worlds

Posted by: Albie Damned at November 07, 2012 12:46 PM (biwMC)

157 "The moderates have again shoved a RINO to their liking down the throat of the base - and the base didn't show up."

this is a simplistic explanation

Romney may very well have governed as a moderate, technocratic president but lots of people, not all hard-left types, didn't see him that way

Posted by: JDP at November 07, 2012 12:46 PM (60GaT)

158 GREAT post Ace.

Posted by: Baldy at November 07, 2012 12:46 PM (opS9C)

159 All those specific strategic points might have validity, but the big picture reason why we didn't win is this: Americans do not have the will to be free anymore.

They have shown a preference to slavery over freedom. Slavery to big government, slavery to debt, slavery to pleasure over responsibility, slavery to tribal identity.

The have chosen a preference for rulers who can tell them how much soda they are allowed to drink, and how much salt they can put on their food. They are choosing to be slaves. It requires less energy and it reaps financial rewards.

It's too hard to be free. It's too hard to live up to America.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 07, 2012 12:46 PM (P6QsQ)

160 romney lost because the electorate in this country are fucking uneducated parasites. we're outnumbered. we're fucked

Posted by: coldwarrior at November 07, 2012 12:46 PM (fpL1+)

161 Oh, and another thing.

FUCK YOU OHIO AND WISCONSIN!!!!!

Posted by: © Sponge at November 07, 2012 12:46 PM (UK9cE)

162 Ace, you made a complete fool of yourself with your prediction.
How about "!0 reasons I shit my pants" instead?

Naturally, you ignore the Mormon elephant in the room.

Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 12:46 PM (jQm+J)

163 We've not made our case to the urban voter. 'Nuff said. You can't win Pennsylvania by conceding Philadelphia. You can't win Ohio by conceding Cleveland and Cincinnati.

I've been saying this for years now. The GOP has to do a better job at getting the urban vote. The amount of fail that goes on in these cities, that are exclusively in democrat control, should allow us to be at LEAST competitive.

Until we get our act together in these places, we'll be lost in the wilderness.

Posted by: taylork at November 07, 2012 12:46 PM (ppNDn)

164 146
the #1 reason Romney failed
the thing thats wrong with this country is the electorate and that can'tbe fixed at the ballot box
Posted by: kj at November 07, 2012 12:44 PM (AW9md)
_______
^ This, x1000.
Last night was symptom as much as disease.

Posted by: Dante at November 07, 2012 12:46 PM (NWLVJ)

165 125 The GOP needs to move away from the Social Conservative crap. It doesn't win any votes.

Good plan. Where do you plan to make up the 25+ million difference?
Posted by: Soap MacTavish at November 07, 2012 12:42 PM (vbh31)

__________________


If four years of Obama will not get them to show up--what will?

It's a sin to sit on your hands.

It's a sin to tempt fate.

It's a sin to not take responsibility.

It's a sin not to do everything in your power and to leave it all up to God.

Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 12:47 PM (r2PLg)

166 Look, you cannot blame this on Romney not doing this, or saying that, without also acknowledging that the media would've ensured that it wouldn't matter in the first place. Attack him as a middle class tax hiker? For one thing, Romney DID that...he even pointed out in the first debate several studies claiming that's what Obama would do. Regardless, it's awful hard to make any of these cases when you've got partisan a-holes in the media trumpeting campaign memos as "fact checks" and covering for Obama AT EVERY TURN.

Bottom line is the politics of envy, class warfare, and petty, childish attacks worked. Celebrity trumped competence. People wanted to vote for Mr. Cool, instead of Mr. Fix It, because they've been led to believe things aren't as bad as they are. Romney did all he could to tell them otherwise.

Posted by: Not Greg at November 07, 2012 12:47 PM (gI9Bk)

167 95

We greatly underestimated the size of The Free Shit Army.

This will not end well.
********************

Henceforth, I propose we refer to the Free Shit Army as the "FSA". I have a feeling we will be referring to it a lot.

Posted by: Jim Sonweed at November 07, 2012 12:47 PM (2c1Cq)

168 **139
Minorities.
We need 'em, they have 'em.**

dude, there were a lot of whities voting blindly for O. Lena Dunham is the left's poster child. White stupid and expecting free shit.

Posted by: joeindc44 will start talking like biden. like. biden. at November 07, 2012 12:47 PM (QxSug)

169 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a malignant traitor.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 07, 2012 12:47 PM (/eBe8)

170 It's the economy stupid, unless the economy sucks and there's a Dem president then it's Big Bird, binders and Sandy Fuck

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 07, 2012 12:47 PM (1Jaio)

171 106

yay predictable triumphalist "ve vill bury you" leftism

go to Kos

Posted by: JDP at November 07, 2012 12:47 PM (60GaT)

172 The big lesson for me out of this is "MSM delenda est." They should be actively deprived of any revenue possible. They can't be reformed, and alternative institutions should be put in their place.

Posted by: Ernst Blofeld at November 07, 2012 12:47 PM (XZWie)

173 I haven't yet registered to vote her in my new home state. (Voted absentee in CA)

I am considering registering as a Dem, because I am deeply fearful about this govt coming after Republicans. Is my tin-foil hat too tight?

I hope I don't need to say that I'd be a DINO, and still vote GOP.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 07, 2012 12:47 PM (2rMmy)

174 You Republicans are in self-denial. The USA is no
longer made up of just a lot of white men in power. The demographics
have changed and until you wake up and deal with it, you will continue
to gain an increasing share of a declining market - which is the surest
way to bankruptcy and liquidation. The last buggy whip company
undoubtedly made the best buggy whip ever, but no one was buying it
because nobody needed buggy whips anymore.
Welcome to the 21st century.

Posted by: carlito at November 07, 2012 12:40 PM (WFKaI)

------
Actually.... you are right.... but not in the way you think you are.Republicans as Republicans can no longer win.... we cant even really tinker at the edges. We are
the party of "eat your peas and clean your room." The electorate has
moved on to "here's your free shit and you can stay up til 2:00am on a
school night'.

But reality hasnt changed. There are consequences.
The ONLY way Republicans get to change this paradigm is to stop being the Dutch boy
with the finger in the dam..... we walk away...... hasten the consequences
of bad decisions.

You won. Fine. You own it. You get everything you want, including the goddamned consequences.Give Obama what he wants, give it all.
Tax increases? Check.
Card check? Check.
20 trillion in debt? Check.Open Borders??? Check
Gutted military. Check
Gun control. Check.
Abortion on Demand.... pass that sucker thru..... but YOU.own.it.all.

Posted by: fixerupper at November 07, 2012 12:47 PM (yzX2R)

175 #62 Amazing. Argentina has run this movie twice, first the Peron, and then with Kirchner. Both destroyed the country while appealing to the envy and greed of the lower classes.

Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 12:47 PM (qe2/V)

176 It's not just takers that are the problem. As a percentage of the population, some of the spongiest states in the country are deep red like AL, MS TX. There were millions of self sufficient, highly compensated, tax paying dipshits that voted to re-elect Obama. It's cultural.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at November 07, 2012 12:47 PM (+lsX1)

177 Mitts problem was that he is a great guy but ultimately had a spreadsheet where his "gut" should have been.
Maybe he was afraid because of the minority backlash if he really went after Obama- but in the end it cost him the base voter who needed the red meat.
The convention was a tip off- a masterpiece of blandness made all the worse by Clinton histrionics that connected.
Politics is very emotional and we never brought it on a gut level.
Romney thought he didn't have to gamble and I can see that- hindsight says it was a mistake

Posted by: jjshaka at November 07, 2012 12:47 PM (zyMGp)

178 Romney didn't make the complicated arguments because a growing % of the country has an IQ south of 90. They wouldn't be able to understand his arguments let alone be swayed by them. Mainly they would think he was just doing faggy white guy talk.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 07, 2012 12:47 PM (ZPrif)

179 142 "I'm going to ignore obvious ones like "the media," with one exception."

Ignore that and you're ignoring the only one that counts. If the media gave Obama one-tenth the scrutiny and venom it gave Romney, Obama loses. Period.
Posted by: Who cares at November 07, 2012 12:44 PM (Xv7f/)

I agree. While I think that the electorate is what has us screwed, even a parasite electorate would have fled Obama if the media provided even a glimpse into what he had been doing, especially Benghazi.

We can blame Romney all we want, but hindsight is 20/20.

The media is the enemy.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at November 07, 2012 12:48 PM (6zgse)

180 Fuck it. Let's eat each other.

Posted by: SoCon vs. FisCon 90 Bajillion: The Reckoning!!!! at November 07, 2012 12:48 PM (S/ps/)

181 All we had to do was get the same vote total as McCain/Palin.

Simple, get out the vote mechanics. We had all the money in the world to work with.

Just. Can't. Understand. What. Happened.

Posted by: jwest at November 07, 2012 12:48 PM (ZDsRL)

182 Dang. Did he really get less votes than Juan McCain? The quality of the candidate seems to be irrelevant. McCain made zero effort to actually win.

Posted by: Butters at November 07, 2012 12:48 PM (NIZHJ)

183 Mitt Romney lost because >50% of the voting public believes they have a right to something I must produce.

If we're talking about anything else (philosophically) we're losing. As long as that continues, the side that offers more free crap will win.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at November 07, 2012 12:48 PM (/eBe8)

184 The majority of the American electorate are grifters. We have to realize that and find a way to deal with it. I fear we are screwed.

Posted by: Witchfinder at November 07, 2012 12:48 PM (pLTLS)

185 I think we're better off looking at what we did in senate races. Romney outperformed almost all, not just IN and MO. We need to bring better candidates forward. We need to coalesce in the primaries better. It helps the guy at the top of the ticket when the statewide guys they share the ticket with have some dynamism and momentum as well. Otherwise, we're asking for a ton of people to split the ticket. Look at it - plenty did just that, just not enough.

He did talk about the pathway to Greece endlessly. He did talk about the dangers of a dependent society. He didn't get into how the collapse started all that much, granted, but he emphasized repeatedly that recoveries aren't supposed to drag on like this. He reminded everyone what Obama's own expectations were for recovery years ago, and that he hasn't come anywhere near them. He explained why that was.

We're doing the "it's the messaging thing" we mock the left for. Sure, he didn't pitch a perfect game. However, he did put Medicare on the table with a ton of political savvy. That's one of the big issues. He decided to make it as bold a choice as a former governor of Massachusetts could credibly allow. He found credible ways to attack Obamacare by positioning it as a misguided priority. I support the campaign he ran.

He lost to the guy that talked about cancer, Bain, taxing a few people 4 % more, Big Bird, and binders. He lost to the guy that spent all his time on entertainment shows and FM radio.

Its not the messaging, it's the country.

Posted by: Dave S. at November 07, 2012 12:48 PM (UvR6d)

186 These points would have appeal to the base. Reagan would have likely lost in this election. As a party, we have to address the changing (and apparently permanent) demographics in this country. It's a long term project and one not likely to be any better in 2016.

Posted by: RKK at November 07, 2012 12:48 PM (DchlQ)

187 9 Something doesn't smell right about these elections. Wasn't Mia Love up 16% in the polls on Monday? And she loses? WTF?
Posted by: RushBabe at November 07, 2012 12:30 PM (tQHzJ)



Like I said in another thread, any black conservative is a threat to the libs. They had to take both Mia Love and Allen West out. I guarantee you, as Laura I. said this morning, they were a target to take out, and the libs won this one. We weren't protecting them.



On that note, one thing Ace does not mention -- the libs are brutal and dirty and trick players. We are up against dirty, filthy, win-no-matter-how-evil-we-have-to-be people.

They will do and say anything. Lies are in their favor. Pushing "get in their face" and "they bring a knife, we bring a gun" mentality.

Fluke came out of nowhere and became a faux symbol.

Romney should never have said SCoaMF was a good man or a good family man. It just isn't true. He's despicable, and so is his wife. If you can't go negative, don't say anything. Let it be.

TFG ran and ugly, negative campaign. They brought mentally retarded people to the polls to vote. They bought off people to vote. They have no shame.

We were up against the Chicago Thug Machine. Absolute corruption.


Posted by: the day after at November 07, 2012 12:48 PM (LpQbZ)

188
@124
Totally agree, but then how do we make in-roads? By running a black female and then getting in the face of liberals who are against and saying 'RACIST!' WOMAN-HATER!' As childish as that sounds, that's what needs to be done.

Posted by: Zac at November 07, 2012 12:48 PM (F6KtL)

189 I spoke with a guy yesterday, about the election. He is hispanic, and was still using the "O inherited Bush's mess" line. After 4 years of O, is this sort of problem fixable?

I think I'll ask him next time how much he contributes to his employer's heal care benefits program ... then point out that a large number of companies are ending such programs ... too expensive ... and Blue Cross is very much more expensive ... yet we will soon have to provide proof of insurance, when we file our IRS supplication.

It looks like the joke's on him.

It may be that even if Romney had hit 8 of the above 10 points harder, he would have won, but I suspect not.


"We have to pass it to see what's in it" seems to sum up the political motivation of about half of all Americans ... so far, nothing has really hurt ... except when it has, when "it" hits them.


What happens in 2016? Will BO try to run again?

My guess is that Hillary will fade from politics: the upcoming failures and excuses are all BO's and the Democrats. Who's left?

Posted by: Arbalest at November 07, 2012 12:48 PM (rlWf0)

190
Until we get our act together in these places, we'll be lost in the wilderness.
Posted by: taylork at November 07, 2012 12:46 PM (ppNDn)



There is no getting an act together there. They like their free shit.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 07, 2012 12:49 PM (2rMmy)

191 Bets anyone? My predictions:

(1) Unemployment numbers will have "unexpected" corrections to rate back over 8% now that the election is over

(2) Unemployment numbers will thereafter get worse because (a) defense industry will move forward with layoffs even after Obama and neutered GOP agree to avoid sequestration (now a 100% certainty - GOP must and will cave to Obama tax hikes. Yay!); and (b) all other private sector employers can FINALLY make moves now that there is certainty that ObamaCare is here to stay. Small businesses will avoid "50 or more" employees like the plague and the 50+ employers will pull trigger on lay offs after the year-end holidays.

(3) Energy prices are going to jag higher and stay there; another "new normal." Why? Coal industry is fucked. Domestic natural gas and oil is going nowhere. And (all Hail Comrades!) Obama is going to get his carbon tax one way or another.

I don't know what the GOP house does from here. They're going to be petrified of defying Obama based on election results, but agreeing to ANYTHING Obama wants is going to earn them loud and angry derision from citizen conservatives everywhere. But honestly, it isn't going to matter. Another scary outcome of this election is that Obama's naked disregard for the limits on Executive power just got rubber stamped by a broad coalition of minority groups. If GOP House doesn't agree with Obama, he will simply continue to push the outer boundaries of Executive Power and play Supreme Court lottery on the outcomes. And you can't blame the guy! Right? Do YOU have confidence the Supreme Court will shoot Obama down? Lol. Exactly.

We're fucked. After I get over the initial depression, I'm going to go buy some drab brown or grey clothing and start educating myself on how to qualify for State and Federal assistance. Food stamps, Obama phones, whatever.

This is the face of the new United States folks. Formerly known as the individual-centric society, we are now just another citizen of the global village of so-called social democracies drowning in debt and laughably unsustainable entitlement programs.

There is NO WAY this ends well folks.

Posted by: Jahson at November 07, 2012 12:49 PM (70WAZ)

192 ALL OF THESE REASON ARE BULLSHIT:

The reason Romney lost is that for some inexplicable reason, Republicans and right-leaning Independents DID NOT VOTE.

Conspiracy? Hell yes. Something very evil happened here.

Think about it:

1) Republican enthusiasm at all time highs.
2) Republican EV up 15% from 2008.
3) Independents going to Republicans in record numbers.
4) Best GOTV program ever.
5) Most money spent on ads and GOTV ever.
6) Massive ED turnout.

and yet, we have 3.5 million fewer votes than McCain got?

Yes folks, something stinks here.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 07, 2012 12:49 PM (hlUJY)

193 I haven't seen Romney concession speech (I can't watch)....how was it?

Posted by: Tami at November 07, 2012 12:49 PM (X6akg)

194
180Romney didn't make the complicated arguments because a growing % of the country has an IQ south of 90. They wouldn't be able to understand his arguments let alone be swayed by them. Mainly they would think he was just doing faggy white guy talk.

This is true. Especially the IQ part

Posted by: betsy at November 07, 2012 12:49 PM (/4XJH)

195 When you give in too much to BDS--you give into

Hate.

All the logic in the world after ceding that cannot save you.

Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 12:49 PM (r2PLg)

196 Four more years of free shit!!! When can I expect my phone?

Posted by: Butters at November 07, 2012 12:49 PM (NIZHJ)

197 Look, 13 million less people voted.

Obama should have lost. Romney lost on mechanics. I concur on most of Ace's points. But the 2008 and 2012 election's GOTV machine for GOP seems to have been weak sauce.

That's how we lost close house seats in red states.

I think Karl Rove circa 2004 would have gotten Mitt across the line with McCain's 59M plus a few more stragglers.

Posted by: joeindc44 will start talking like biden. like. biden. at November 07, 2012 12:49 PM (QxSug)

198
Republicans have lost across the board....not just Romney. He's not the problem. It's the people. You have to appeal to this group here, and then go and appeal to this group here. Appeal to Latinosin Florida over immigration, then go and appeal to social conservative populists up north, appeal to auto-bailout people, appeal to people in Colorado that want pot. It's a tall order. So the Democrats did it right--- focus on war, women's parts, and throwing granny off a cliff. Works everytime.

Conseratives have taken lots of blows this year with Obamacare, not being able to retain the Senate, and not firing Obama.

Posted by: Mo the Girl at November 07, 2012 12:49 PM (1pGns)

199 >>>ttack him as a middle class tax hiker? For one thing, Romney DID that...he even pointed out in the first debate several studies claiming that's what Obama would do.

did he? I have a vague memory of that, but in a copycat way, as Obama kept accusing him of raising taxes. So it came off as defensive -- nuh-uh, YOU will.

There is no question Obama made the charge early and often.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 12:50 PM (LCRYB)

200 He did not push back as often or as hard as he should have. They say in Ohio he lost because Obama ran the NYT's headline "Let the auto industry go bankrupt" over and over. If he had called the Dems liars in the same street fighting way that they lied, this new group of unwashed and uneducated bozos would have listened. He was a gentleman.

If you think this Country can be saved now or will be in 4 years you are dreaming an opium dream. The population is too stupid. They have committed suicide. America, where once men were free, is over.

Posted by: Daybrother at November 07, 2012 12:50 PM (+paCV)

201
"I'd add a solid 5% of votes to #8. Heck, even more than 5%

That's ludicrous."
Maybe, but after talking w/a number of family members (big extended family here) I could give you a list of six women who claim to have voted for Palin who sat this one out.
Small data set, I admit, but...

Posted by: Jess1 at November 07, 2012 12:50 PM (LwGY+)

202 #128

Compare Romney's Mormonism to Obama's Jeremiah Wrightism/Islamism, and why is this an issue at all?

I'm not willing to attribute low turnout to this factor, absent some fairly convincing evidence to the contrary.

I think when the final analysis is done, we'll see that evangelicals didn't say home for Romney any more they did for McCain, and in fact, I bet the converse is true.


Posted by: Looking closely at November 07, 2012 12:50 PM (6Q9g2)

203 one conservative pundit said something on the radio after it was clear Obama had won that some people'd probably dismiss as over-optimistic but I thought had a point -- is this the Obama Coalition, or the Emergent Democratic Majority

too early to tell, but worth keeping in mind. A collection of identity-politics voters won't stay coherent forever.

Posted by: JDP at November 07, 2012 12:50 PM (60GaT)

204 "One of my biggest problems with candidate Romney -- before I got on
board -- is that I didn't trust the American people to judge a rich,
successful Winner on his merits That they would naturally fall to the normal human state of envy. They did.I'm not sure what Romney could have done to avoid this. Perhaps pushed those soft-focus Story of Mitt commercials very early."

Americans are just fine with rich, successful Winners.

As long as those Winners are from the sports or entertainment business.

Other businesses are viewed as evil and exploitative.

I wish this weren't true, but it is.

However, it's always possible to make a bad situation worse.

Something I heard quite a lot about from persuadable swing voters was about Romney's car elevator. They can grasp the idea of buying a big house on the beach. Many of them own houses, so the concept scales up. They've flown in jets as airline passengers, so a private jet is again just a conceptual extension.

But a car elevator, for whatever reason, blew their minds. Most people have never seen one or even imagined that such a thing existed. It was so far outside their ordinary experience as to be somewhat exotic and shocking.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 07, 2012 12:50 PM (ymG7s)

205 Benghazi-gate? The debt? Mere trifling details. Swing voters vote for the man and their own vague feelings. They're not policy wonks.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 07, 2012 12:41 PM (SY2Kh)I agree.

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at November 07, 2012 12:50 PM (Rwrs+)

206
dude, there were a lot of whities voting blindly for O. Lena Dunham is the left's poster child. White stupid and expecting free shit.
========
Don't deny that for a minute. I know stupid mislead GWPs who don't expect free shit who stood in line for that piece of sit. But we are getting outnumbered, and that block is not moving our way.

Yeah and the media.

Posted by: Scratch One Republic at November 07, 2012 12:50 PM (9ghZ6)

207 Totally agree, but then how do we make in-roads? By running a black
female and then getting in the face of liberals who are against and
saying 'RACIST!' WOMAN-HATER!'


Doesn't even work on a local level. Easily dismissed with epithets, "not a woman, not really black, house N...., whore" etc.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 12:50 PM (/kI1Q)

208 One reason only - 10s of millions of the feral, urban 3rd-world underclass, aided and abetted by a white, statist "elite", voting for their Obamaphones.

Posted by: ToursLepantoVienna at November 07, 2012 12:50 PM (CrJzY)

209 Romney hurt a lot of downticket races as well

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at November 07, 2012 12:50 PM (g5liS)

210 We now know that what killed Romney was the turnout. Why?

The gap of enthusiasm that caused this defeat rests solely on the shoulders of those who nominated the least conservative, least principled and least enthusiasm-inducing candidate from the entire spectrum of candidates.

And that happened after McCrap. Trying the same thing over and over again and expecting results. Idiots.

Posted by: Darzi the Elder at November 07, 2012 12:50 PM (EJG9c)

211 It's evident that turnout was (unexpectedly !!) down and that helped doom Romney.

Ergo: solution is to get turnout up next time (in "our" favor, of course).

SINCE I complained about the sheer volume of phone calls (and Ace subsequently suggested I don't love my country):

If
(a) you're being inundated (as in 20 calls per day, average), predominantly by the Republican candidate, and

(b) you're actually not all that committed to participate to begin with,

then what path do you choose:

(1) vote the way the 20 calls per day want you to,
(2) vote the other way just to spite the annoying bastards,
or
(3) take a fuckitall tablet and don't do a damn thing?

My guess is an awful lot of (3) happened.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 07, 2012 12:50 PM (Qxe/p)

212
wow you guys are like flies on shit

this thread is minutes old and it's already packed with commentary

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 12:50 PM (jUytm)

213 If Obama's pandering to vaginas worked so well, then why did Romney get a higher share of the female vote than McCain did?

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at November 07, 2012 12:51 PM (Rwrs+)

214 So, ace, GOTV is key. Romney needed to get 60M votes. We had about 59.5 in 2008. WTF? Instead, we got 57.5.

All this soul searching. We lost by that much.

Posted by: joeindc44 will start talking like biden. like. biden. at November 07, 2012 12:51 PM (QxSug)

215 What used to be vices are now habits

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at November 07, 2012 12:51 PM (rzTDZ)

216 Does Pastorius have a newsletter?

Cuz I want to subscribe.

Posted by: America Fuck Yeah! at November 07, 2012 12:51 PM (v/itI)

217 He lost because he got 3 million fewer voters than McCain. That, and the fact that a majority in this country now view those of us with a job as their cash cow. Bring on the crash; those of us with skills will make it through and those who leech will starve.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at November 07, 2012 12:51 PM (ZDP2l)

218 and let me be clear, what's worse is what happened in the Senate.

Somehow, we lost everything. and it's GOTV.

and rapebortions.

Posted by: joeindc44 will start talking like biden. like. biden. at November 07, 2012 12:51 PM (QxSug)

219 @148 Pretty sure they have an excellent plan to hang that on the Rethuglicans, too. After all, it wouldn't take much. Just tell the Obamatons that if L'il Barry had BOTH houses, there'd be no limit to what he could spend on you, individually, out of his great love as the man-god-child.
(Btw, are we sure that Rove and Michael Barone among others aren't working for the other side?)

Posted by: Thorvald at November 07, 2012 12:52 PM (1V6Pv)

220 There was a little mentioned story of an "experimental software patch" applied to OH vote tabulating machines just prior to the election. Against law, this patch was not reviewed or tested by anyone, it was just applied.

Lord know what it does but I can guess. It undercounts Republican votes.

You don't like my conspiracy? Then fuck you, I don't care. There has to be some reason for massive lines everywhere on ED and then getting the lowest % turnout of the electorate in 2 decades.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 07, 2012 12:52 PM (hlUJY)

221 Three words... It's the media stupid...

Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna not greg/gerg at November 07, 2012 12:52 PM (9+ccr)

222 14 Let's win the language war. Let's stop calling leftists & fascists 'liberals' when theyare not liberal.


I've tried. But "fucking commies" isn't doing it.

Posted by: rickb223 (I am John Galt) at November 07, 2012 12:52 PM (GFM2b)

223
3. Failing to Accuse Obama of Planning to Raise Taxes on the Middle Class.

This is the Big One.

Romney never fully explained what was coming down the pike in 2013 for ALL Americans.

Were in for a very bad year. And 2014 will be even worse. After that, who knows.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 12:52 PM (jUytm)

224 Ace, exactly right. My one addition would be thatsocial issues are killing us with the youths. I dont think we on the right understand how badly we are getting beaten on gay marraige. Hollywood injects it into the narrative of every show to portray conservatives as haters, and thekids are the major consumers. This is a huge voting block who feel they are fighting evil and that is a huge reason for the high youth turn out. Conservatives have allowed themselves to be painted as the bad guys by an extremely small sect of gay Hollywood writers. This issue is not worth it. We have to let this go. Who gives a shit anyway?

Posted by: ray robison at November 07, 2012 12:52 PM (c7Pp2)

225 @150
The GOP did know this 10 years ago. Thats all Rove talked about for awhile. Bush won 40% of hispanics. 40% = 4% of the overall vote.
IIRC some of us here were pretty harsh on Perry for his softer immigration talk. We can't give in completely, ace is right, but we do need to change the tone and appeal to that population.

Posted by: JollyRoger at November 07, 2012 12:52 PM (t06LC)

226 Democrats get 25% of the vote out of the gate just out of racial/ethnic hatred. Romney has a white face -- immediately 25% of the country will vote against him.

Then there's another 25% of intra-white class envy.

Boom, majority coalition. And no need for complicated arguments. Notice Obama didn't campaign on jackshit.

His campaign was -- look at that evil rich white guy. Fuck him, right?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 07, 2012 12:52 PM (ZPrif)

227 Ace, you also forget to add that Ryan added absolutely nothing to the ticket


Posted by: Flapjackmaka at November 07, 2012 12:34 PM (g5liS)


I'm not sure what you want from Ryan because I thought it was unanimous that he was a good choice at the time of the selection. I'm sure he did exactly what the campaign staff told him to do otherwise you'd have heard sniping about him like was done to Palin four years ago.

Posted by: Captain Hate (more dagny and less curious) at November 07, 2012 12:52 PM (sw/4Y)

228 There's only one reason. We now have > 50% of the population that are voting for the "goodies" that the

The country I grew up in and served/defended no longer exists.

Atlas WILL Shrug

Posted by: GaryL at November 07, 2012 12:53 PM (IAv8z)

229 Totally agree, but then how do we make in-roads? By running a black female and then getting in the face of liberals who are against and saying 'RACIST!' WOMAN-HATER!'

"We're the better Democrat Party!" Nope, sorry, you lose me at that point.

Posted by: t-bird at November 07, 2012 12:53 PM (FcR7P)

230 The only way the 47% will wake up is when the resources dry up.....only then will "our" candidate win.

It is gonna be a helluva tough road....but get yourself and your family prepared....it will be tougher for the 47%

It wasn't Romney....it wasn't minority outreach....or any of that other stuff....unfortunately it will take a moment of clarity when these fools come to the conclusion that you don't understand what you have until you lose it.

The 47% are tactile/experience learners.

In the mean time I will be the "little Red Hen" and prepare for the coming lesson

Posted by: kawfytawk at November 07, 2012 12:53 PM (JWLqy)

231 #LanguageWar I'm pro-choice, but anti-abortion.

Keep your laws off of my body, Obamacare!

Words are powerful. The agenda of freedom is a winner.

With the correct words, Romney could have smashed Obama on Libya in the 2nd debate.

#LanguageWar The slavery party Democrats own the vote of social conservative, school choice favoring blacks. Why? They aim strong words at us and we accept them instead of firing back.

America is so close to a massive realignment of the two political parties. The sooner we win minds by using the correct words, the sooner it will happen.

Posted by: The Pitt at November 07, 2012 12:53 PM (9bWs4)

232 Is is that hard to understand?
The fact tha some are t D'ohbama's pals are nutty clergymen has ABSOLUTELY NOTHNG to with the anti-Mormon bigotry that - although no survey would show - surely cost the Republican ticket hundreds of thousands of votes.

Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 12:53 PM (jQm+J)

233 The illegal immigration thing is a pipedream. Romney won Arizona and Texas. There is nothing Romney could have said or done on immigration to win California, so at best, you're looking at flipping New Mexico. I'm not sure that would have helped much.

Posted by: OCBill at November 07, 2012 12:53 PM (YJvVE)

234 put it another way? Who would be easier to convince to vote against Obama, the free phone girl or Lena Dunham?

Posted by: joeindc44 will start talking like biden. like. biden. at November 07, 2012 12:53 PM (QxSug)

235 I dont think the mormon thing is about evangelical bigotry, but Willard probably hesitated to play the religion card, because he didnt want to put the spotlight on his religion. The values voters were not given anything positiveby this campaign. The Republican Party treated social issues as if they were losing issues right from the start, despite the fact thatthis was the only thing that was conservative about Bush and probably put him into the White House twice. If you make people feelunwelcome, they will stay away. This is hardly bigotry.

Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 07, 2012 12:53 PM (bonPh)

236 Forgot two reasons: Obama is black. Had he been white, he would have lost.
Second: Our nation has reached the irrevocable tipping point of more pigs at the trough than farmers to feed them.
We are now officially past the point of no return. Obama will spend the next four years upping that percentage of takers (amnesty for illegals is right around the corner and the Pubbies will run to it like manna from heaven thinking it will get them votes - and it will not).
We didn't just lose the battle. We lost the war.

Posted by: Natasha at November 07, 2012 12:53 PM (jU5uf)

237 Ace,


That's a nice tactical takedown, but the real problem is that the Republican Party has a massive internal division and Romney could not paper over it. The primaries totally drained his resources, forced him to go right on immigration and call himself a "severely conservative" governor, and most importantly exposed a huge number of voters that would not vote for him under any circumstances.


The guy got fewer votes than John McCain. That should make us stew long and hard. He was 10 times the candidate and the man John McCain was. His campaign was flawless in comparison to McCain's.


He lost because the Sarah Palin voters stayed home.

Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 12:53 PM (qe2/V)

238 You take a republican party that is pro getting out of the marriage business (i.e. no regulation of gay or straight marriage), is ok with abortion on libertarian grounds, that is against democratizing muslim nations via military campaigns, and couple that with the moral argument against pushing our debt on the next generation and you have the election locked up.

social cons will never win another election in this country. Never. And I fail to see how a vote for Johnson in Massachusetts makes one iota of difference to anything? In what way is it a luxury? Did my vote cost you the election? Show me the numbers. Fuck your gut, look at the NUMBERS. Because apparently self-delusion about numbers does not work.

Posted by: Roald Dahl Paul at November 07, 2012 12:53 PM (Kd6lF)

239 During the run up to the election, the media polls were saying that Obama was going to increase his base. We all said that no way, he wasn't going to get more votes than he did in 2008.

We were right. Obama got 10 million less votes.

Also, everyone agreed that no matter what, Romney would do better than McCain.

That didn't happen.

Posted by: jwest at November 07, 2012 12:53 PM (ZDsRL)

240 I agree with everyone about the media but the media is not something we can change. It's like blaming blacks for voting 90% for Obama. Yes, we can express our annoyance at it, but there is nothing there WE can change.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 12:54 PM (LCRYB)

241 Here's the reason we lost - forget all the above. We lost because we are the minority. Simple as that.

Posted by: les9506 at November 07, 2012 12:54 PM (wrkMs)

242 Since we held the House, could they PLEASE elect Paul Ryan or Eric Cantor as Speaker and get rid of Cryin' Boehner? Especially since Fake Tan has promised to work with TFG which will set Republicans up to take the blame for the failures


Posted by: kbdabear at November 07, 2012 12:54 PM (wwsoB)

243 #194

My small business is probably laying people off next month.

Those that remain are going to have to start paying 50% of their health insurance costs going forward.

I feel particularly bad about this, because I'm in a red state, and I know most of them didn't vote for Obama, but they're screwed anyway.


Posted by: Looking closely at November 07, 2012 12:54 PM (6Q9g2)

244 I think you missed a key one Ace. The reason for choosing Romney over Perry et al. was the ground game. It DID not work; I mean fewer total votes than Mccain? All the margin closing compared to 08 came from Solid Blue/Red State. So I think he was able to overcome the factors you listed but Team O beat them in the ground game in states that mattered.

Now this is a comment that made Breitbart love the commenters on this site

Posted by: Immigrant in CA at November 07, 2012 12:54 PM (89P1m)

245 You don't like my conspiracy? Then fuck you, I don't care. There has to be some reason for massive lines everywhere on ED and then getting the lowest % turnout of the electorate in 2 decades.
Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 07, 2012 12:52 PM (hlUJY)


I have been saying the same thing. I still am not sure Romney could have won it, but there is a disconnect somewhere.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 07, 2012 12:54 PM (2rMmy)

246 127 The al-Media is the biggest, of course. As to Sandy, that RNC "keynote speaker" asshole Christie gave the JEF a big swing, in Gallup at least. Letting Barky define Romney with $100+ in slam ads in the battleground states early on seemed to stick as well. Oh, and the 47% comment.

Color me curious on this, however: Why the low turnout, I mean ten million or so? Less than McCain? GTFOOH.

The saddest part is that Romney is a really good man as well as the right numbers guy for the times. I was so jazzed with the numbers and people like Barone opining a mandate for good change. I am so devastated and saddened for this great country.

Off to work now. Say your prayers morons. And thanks Ace and all for your efforts.
Posted by: eureka! at November 07, 2012 12:42 PM (UL+ny)


Well said

Posted by: Ed Gibbon at November 07, 2012 12:54 PM (4eNxd)

247 I've said before I'm amazed that before Fox News, talk radio, and the Internet, Republicans ever won a single Presidential election. I remain amazed.

Basically, the public had to think "yes, he's fascist, racist warmonger...but he could be better than the alternative..."

The media is the enemy (they sure as hell consider us their enemy) and they're the ones who must be fought.

Posted by: AD at November 07, 2012 12:54 PM (prJbE)

248 Repeat again

2008 Presidential election

Obama 69,498,215 (52.93%) McCain 59,948,240 (45.66)


2012 election


Obama 59,633,456 (50.33%) Romney 57,003,614 (48.11%)

Note; not all votes counted yet.


Note that the Dem turnout was much lower as expected, but Republican turnout is also much lower which was NOT expected.

Posted by: Vic at November 07, 2012 12:54 PM (YdQQY)

249
'Doesn't even work on a local level. Easily dismissed with epithets, "not a woman, not really black, house N...., whore" etc.'

Exactly. You make the media say this. You confront them about 'WHY YOU RACIST??' 'WHY YOU HATE BLACK PEOPLE??'

Posted by: Zac at November 07, 2012 12:54 PM (F6KtL)

250 While I agree with 90% of what you've said ace, I really don't care a lot about how we could have eeked a few percent out of this one and maybe come up with a W.


The fact that we had to play a perfect game to unseat the most incompetent President in modern times is testament to a much grimmer reality that wouldn't have been assuaged, at most delayed, by Romney victory.

While I appreciate post analysis and I think analyzing your mistakes is important, I think looking to the future is more important. We will not face Obama again. The next election will have new faces and challenges, situations and national backdrop.

What we need to address, I think, is the electorate. This has gone from a 4 year project to highlight to America what kind of mistake they made in 2008, to a multi decade project of changing the US' electoral makeup. My gut tells me that grimmer reality I spoke of above will have to happen for many to question progressivism and critically examine the course it has the country on. But I am all for finding other ways as well.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 07, 2012 12:54 PM (0q2P7)

251 Also related to Hispanics: Romney never pounded on FF and hundreds of dead Mexicans that appears to have been the actual plan (and if it wasn't, what was the plan?), and Obama's stonewalling on the issue. This is a very important issue to Hispanics. And to conservatives. Win-win for Romney, but he took a pass.

Posted by: 11/6 - USA goes full retard at November 07, 2012 12:54 PM (/kBoL)

252
Indeed, the GOP didn't scare the shit out of people enough.

Obama's 1st term set us up for tax hikes, energy cost hikes, and a recession. But the GOP didn't bother making the case in stark terms.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 12:54 PM (jUytm)

253 There's only one reason. We now have great than 50 percent of the population that are voting for the "goodies" that the less than 50 percent have to pay for (or we borrow or print money for).

The country I grew up in and served/defended no longer exists.

Atlas WILL Shrug

Posted by: GaryL at November 07, 2012 12:54 PM (IAv8z)

254 Obama is in a unique position. He make whatever slander pops into head about the Republican and the Republican can say nothing back without being accused of being racist to a black man.

And that was just a warm up.

Wait until 2016 when it's Hillary's turn. I can already hear it. "Oh noes, you can't say that about a womyn."

Posted by: How about? at November 07, 2012 12:54 PM (Xv7f/)

255 Marketing. Plain and simple.

We ran a Presidential Campaign, they ran an American Idol campaign.

Posted by: El Kabong at November 07, 2012 12:55 PM (JycCV)

256 Compare Romney's Mormonism to Obama's Jeremiah Wrightism/Islamism, and why is this an issue at all?

Race. Anti-Americanism.

I'm using these as shorthand for "fetishizing The Other" but that's the whole concept of multiculturalism...Mormonism is "weird" but it's practiced in America, so it's bad. Thugocracy and Islamism are practiced in third-world shit-holes, so they're good.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 12:55 PM (/kI1Q)

257 Let's win the language war. Let's stop calling leftists & fascists 'liberals' when theyare not liberal.

Sure thing. I'll go out and buy the NY Times and maybe CNN. Got any spare change, by the way?

Posted by: t-bird at November 07, 2012 12:55 PM (FcR7P)

258 We're all minorities now.

Free shit for everybody.

Posted by: Newsweak at November 07, 2012 12:55 PM (NIZHJ)

259 11 - Obamacare was Romneycare on a federal level. Mitt could never truly attack the plan without attacking himself.

12 - you cannot rely on independents.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at November 07, 2012 12:55 PM (ZZPs4)

260 >>>>He lost because the Sarah Palin voters stayed home.

I'm a bit behind on news, but why do you say that?

I hope it's not just a hunch. We shouldn't be throwing big parts of the coalition under the bus.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 12:56 PM (LCRYB)

261 I can already hear it. "Oh noes, you can't say that about a womyn."

Sure you can...Obama already said it.

Won't be Hillary, though. Will be DWS, or Fauxcahontas.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 12:56 PM (/kI1Q)

262 Trojan at November 07, 2012 12:34 PM

Of everyone that was invited to our house for thanksgiving this year,
only those that voted for Romney are now welcome. I will explain to
everyone else that they've taken enough from me and that I have to draw
the line somewhere. I'd rather they starve to death than take a morsel of food out of my
garbage.I can no longer be friends with liberals. I can not associate
with people who believe it's ok to continue taking from me.
Good idea.I agree and it's not just Thanksgiving, it will be Christmas and where I spend my money. We were going to take a 3 week vacation to see the Northeast next Fall - Not anymore. I printed out a US map of which states went for Obama and they will not get my money, not on tourism, not on buying anything (as best as I can help). I will also do the county map and any blue county, I will not spend a penny in them.

Posted by: FL Conservative at November 07, 2012 12:56 PM (hQDLJ)

263 The fact of the matter is that Obama had a terrible record and ran a lazy, lackluster, lifeless, small-ball, petty, meanspirited campaign

And he won.

He's a classless, big mouth, no-account, lying cretin. He's never accomplished shit. And he beat the smart, good looking family man who has an impressive list of credentials and proven success.

What's that say about America?

I can't believe this is who we are, but there you have it.

Posted by: Warden at November 07, 2012 12:56 PM (0DlnM)

264 Sorry but there was an extreme blind spot when it came to one state.

Too much pride--and effort.

Ryan was the last honest politician.

You will never be able to tell the American public the truth again--they can't handle it.

It was very honorable of Romney to pick Ryan--but--

politics is the cold blooded sport of whores and liars.

A member of the House from the rurals of Wisconsin can get away with being honest...


but most cannot.

Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 12:56 PM (r2PLg)

265
@AllenG,
I wish it were as easy as #math. But sadly it's not. Most of the takers believe there's enough maker money to fund this levathian and still leave the makers rich. Obviously this isn't true, but it's believed.
As long as that's the case they'll keep voting for More free crap. It has a name. It's "Bread and Circuses" and it was the downfall of the Roman Republic. It's coming for us. Unless the correction hits and hits hard (a la Greece style.) But our response would have to be different than Greece's obviously. We'd need at least 50% to rise up and say "Austerity will work!" (oh and that same 50% to keep the rioters down.) I just don't see that happening.

Posted by: tsrblke at November 07, 2012 12:56 PM (GaqMa)

266 Now, begone. Before someone drops a house on YOU.Posted by: Don't blame me

Try it, bitch.

Posted by: burned cut-loop at November 07, 2012 12:56 PM (jo069)

267 Btw, fair notice to all you lily-livered bitches who want to blame Romney's loss on Christians who stayed home, Conservatives who've read the Constitution, and Sons of the Pioneers who never, ever, ever supported HRH George III (as did 40% of the population in the Northeast at the time of our Revolution), that you have an implacable foe in me and my best friend, Reality.
Votes don't equal turnout. Turnout is the sum of turnout plus/minus counted votes.

Posted by: Thorvald at November 07, 2012 12:56 PM (1V6Pv)

268 Posted by: Flapjackmaka at November 07, 2012 12:50 PM (g5liS)


I'm kinda tired of your shit.

Posted by: Tami at November 07, 2012 12:57 PM (X6akg)

269 Our nation has reached the irrevocable tipping point of more pigs at the trough than farmers to feed them.


I am so so so stealing this line, Natasha!

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 07, 2012 12:57 PM (2rMmy)

270 I thought that Reince and Mitt were winners but they had nothing compared to what Karl Rove did. I don't know how Romney dropped below McCain in pop vote. Should not have happened. 2008 was supposed to be the low point.

you can blame basic GOP values for why we didn't get people we'll never get BUT 13M voters stayed home.

Posted by: joeindc44 will start talking like biden. like. biden. at November 07, 2012 12:57 PM (QxSug)

271 The problem with all of these points is not in the points themselves, but in the Media's use of these points. Saying "the media" is too obvious ignores the elephant in the room. Had we a genuine Media, none of these points would have made any difference at all. Obama would be gone.

The Media must be destroyed.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at November 07, 2012 12:57 PM (P7hip)

272 >>>Obamacare was Romneycare on a federal level. Mitt could never truly attack the plan without attacking himself.

I disagree with this one. You don't have to make a strong argument to persuade people to oppose *that which they already oppose.*

When you're on the right side of popular opinion of an issue, you don't have to do a lot of heavy lifting on it. You just have to state your opinion.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 12:57 PM (LCRYB)

273 177 #62 Amazing. Argentina has run this movie twice, first the Peron, and then with Kirchner. Both destroyed the country while appealing to the envy and greed of the lower classes.
Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 12:47 PM (qe2/V)


Generations always try to relive the mistakes of the past. Look at how quickly the yoot dopes forgot the lessons of the Soviet Union. This time, the adults were unable to get the chillins' to eat their peas.

Without abject examples of the cost of Socialism and no one to teach them.....

Potato! Math is so free cellphone.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 07, 2012 12:57 PM (HKONC)

274 Romney never pounded on FF and hundreds of dead Mexicans

It's possible that Guatemalans and Hondurans who want free shit in Iowa don't give a shit about dead Mexicans in Mexico.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 12:57 PM (/kI1Q)

275 OK FOR SOME POSITIVE SPIN:

1) We have a shitload of Governors. They can stop a lot of Obama's BS.
2) We have a bigger and likely pissed off House Majority. Next time Obama tries going around them they can go scorched Earth on him.
3) Obama has a legacy to think about.

America didn't say, "We want Obama!", they just didn't have their voices counted.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 07, 2012 12:58 PM (hlUJY)

276
just talked tothe guy who owns the printing company we use on the phone, he says he plans to layoff twenty five percent of his work force this year.He is South African been here for thirty five years says he's done he plans to retire in South Africa which is booming.

Posted by: kj at November 07, 2012 12:58 PM (AW9md)

277 Pimp With A Limp for Secretay of State

Posted by: Redman Bluestate at November 07, 2012 12:58 PM (sRIFP)

278 #LanguageWar GM bailout = corporate welfare. Should have swung that bat all election long. If it doesn't convert people to our side, it depresses the other side. Read twitter. Folks on left hate corporate welfare, yet Obama was the king of it. Should have been a major issue, especially since it was one of the "successes" Obama repeatedly chest thumped about.

Shame on you folks above suggestion cronyism is a winning election strategy. Most people hate being taken advantage of.

Posted by: The Pitt at November 07, 2012 12:58 PM (9bWs4)

279 He lost because the Sarah Palin voters stayed home.

Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 12:53 PM (qe2/V)
No, Romney just sucked.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at November 07, 2012 12:58 PM (g5liS)

280 I haven't bothered to look at Michigan's numbers, for example, but I thought we would at least get the 1.8 to 2.2 M of the vote that we normally got and we only need to break off about 400K from there. but no.

I don't know.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 12:58 PM (QxSug)

281 14 Let's win the language war. Let's stop calling leftists fascists 'liberals' when theyare not liberal. I've tried. But "fucking commies" isn't doing it.
Posted by: rickb223 (I am John Galt) at November 07, 2012 12:52 PM (GFM2b)
I NEVER refer to leftists as "liberal". And I certainly never use "progressive", that's just fucking ridiculous.

Posted by: yinzer at November 07, 2012 12:58 PM (/Mla1)

282 You have to appeal to this group here, and then go and appeal to this
group here. Appeal to Latinosin Florida over immigration, then go and
appeal to social conservative populists up north, appeal to auto-bailout
people, appeal to people in Colorado that want pot. It's a tall order.
-----------------



It's a tall order because we don't have an American identity anymore. We have diversity. We have hyphenated Americans. We are descending into tribalism.

We used to have a common idea of what it meant to be American. We had common principles. This has been bred out of us in large part to the communist influences in the public school system. I do not use that word lightly. It is there stated aim and has been for decades. I'm looking at you, Bill Ayers.

We used to reward hard work and personal responsibility. We used to reward good citizenship. We used to teach the Constitution. Now we teach diversity, multi-culturalism and America-is-at-fault. We are teaching our children to shame the very things we once used to prize. We are calling good, evil and we are calling evil, good.

You can't get a responsible electorate out of that no matter how great your GOTV is.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 07, 2012 12:58 PM (P6QsQ)

283 262 >>>>He lost because the Sarah Palin voters stayed home.

I'm a bit behind on news, but why do you say that?

I hope it's not just a hunch. We shouldn't be throwing big parts of the coalition under the bus.
Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 12:56 PM (LCRYB)

____________________

Exit polls.

Romney won the white vote by

59%

Won white women by 56%

Won the white youth vote by 51%

Won the Independent vote by a 5% margin.

It looks like the Evangelical vote was not there.

Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 12:58 PM (r2PLg)

284 244 Since we held the House, could they PLEASE elect Paul Ryan or Eric Cantor as Speaker and get rid of Cryin' Boehner? Especially since Fake Tan has promised to work with TFG which will set Republicans up to take the blame for the failures


Posted by: kbdabear at November 07, 2012 12:54 PM (wwsoB)
_________
OK, you've got my attention. How do we do this? Call our local Congresscritters and express our preference? There has to be some way to exert pressure.

Posted by: Dante at November 07, 2012 12:58 PM (NWLVJ)

285 The reason Romney lost is because America "Has more takers then producers now". The losers of this country now want their free stuff. But, the free stuff cannot go on forever and when it runs out what do the bottem feeders do? I don't know, but what I do know is that thei is the best it will be for these losers. They cannot progress any further on the quality of life scale. So, I guess they are happy being the lower class of society and continue to descend lower like a piece of shit in the toilet bowl ????

Posted by: Wall_E at November 07, 2012 12:59 PM (48wze)

286
Yes folks, something stinks here.

I concur.


Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 12:59 PM (jUytm)

287 You know Hillbuzz is an Obama disinfo site don't you?

Posted by: John Bissell at November 07, 2012 12:59 PM (tjem6)

288
"I've been saying this for years now. The GOP has to do a better job at getting the urban vote."

The "Urban Vote" is the backbone of the Free Shit Army. They are not interested in the principles of hard work, responsibility, and small government. They're interested in the dole and to a mildly lesser extent whether the candidate has similar melanin content. How do you reach that kind of person without, well, handing out even more free shit?

That Team D carries 95% of a certain demographic year in and year out should not be viewed as a triumph of Team D's strategery. It is an indictment of that demographics overall character. Not everyone, but most.

PC be damned. The truth is a racist, stereotyping bitch. But damn if it ain't pretty accurate.

Posted by: Jaws at November 07, 2012 12:59 PM (4I3Uo)

289 Romney got fewer votes than McCain, but what were the specific demographics where he took it in the shorts?

Posted by: wooga at November 07, 2012 12:59 PM (vjyZP)

290 All great points, my question is...would any of it have even mattered when you have a news media actively hiding, covering, and defending Obama?

Posted by: Derpman at November 07, 2012 12:59 PM (Ydhde)

291 262 >>>>He lost because the Sarah Palin voters stayed home.

This one didn't. I know a great many others that didn't.

I can't speak for the evangelical types.

They frighten me at times.



Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 07, 2012 12:59 PM (HKONC)

292 Good analysis. Also irrelevant.

There are more freeloaders who vote than producers with something to lose. It's very simple.

In the face of undisputed economic recession and four years of not only a failure to improve, but of actually making it worse, Obama was able to be reelected.

EASILY reelected.

This isn't a messaging problem or an image problem. This is a demographic problem.

We are a philosophical minority in this country and it took last night to point out just how unpopular our ideals are. Not that they're bad ideas - but that too few American voters share them.

Look at Greece. They know exactly what got them to this position and they don't care. They see the cliff and they stomp the gas harder. That's who runs America now. That's our future.

Winter is coming.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 07, 2012 12:59 PM (ZrUUM)

293 Two issues, and the way they were handled by the two sides tell a stark tale.

Gun rights -- the Second Amendment is holy ground for many, and the Dems wisely choose to not fight about it. Yeah, they want to nick it here and there but no full blown assault is proposed even in their platform.

Abortion rights -- And with Roe vs. Wade, it is a right, where the SoCons demand a plank in the platform that says they want to outlaw it. They want to take away an existing right. That pushes 40% of possible voters out of the running from the get go.

And there you have it. The Dems are just plain ass smarter.

Last year here in MS, there was an amendment on the ballot to define life as beginning at conception. Now, MS is a very religious state and basically has such tough abortion rules that the only clinic in the state is about to close. But that amendment? It failed, and it failed BIG.

Food for thought.

Posted by: GnuBreed at November 07, 2012 12:59 PM (ccXZP)

294 Maybe all will improve under Secretary of State Jeremiah Wright.

Posted by: Newsweak at November 07, 2012 12:59 PM (NIZHJ)

295 "Obama is black. Had he been white, he would have lost"

He's half black, but I guess that distinction isn't really important.

As an inexperienced first term Senator with no record of public accomplishment to speak of, if he were all white, he'd never have won the Democrat primary in 2008 to begin with.


Posted by: Looking closely at November 07, 2012 12:59 PM (PwGfd)

296 Rural voters in the western part of Virginia didn't turn out in the numbers needed, but the coal workers in Virginia have definitely switched from D to R. Obama got the AA vote out, but the low information voters didn't come out at all. There were 100 people in line when my polling station opened at 6am. When I took the dog for a walk at 6pm, there was nobody in the polling place. We got our voters out, we just didn't get the numbers we needed.


The off year elections are going to be better for us since it appears that in those elections the Dems draw about 50% of their vote while we draw about 66% of our vote. With that, we continue to build on our statehouse successes.

Posted by: MrCaniac at November 07, 2012 12:59 PM (Zd/NW)

297 Marketing. Plain and simple.



We ran a Presidential Campaign, they ran an American Idol campaign.


Correct, and way more succinct than my 5000 word comment.

It wasn't just the campaign though. Mitt may have hit the notes perfectly, but just wasn't entertaining enough as a personality.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 07, 2012 01:00 PM (SY2Kh)

298 Republicans need to build on-

Voters that vote. Not voters that won't.


If four years of Obama cannot inspire them to get to the polls--nothing much will.



Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 01:00 PM (r2PLg)

299
"We're the better Democrat Party!" Nope, sorry, you lose me at that point.

LOL. The Republican party just got wiped out. It needs a new direction.

Posted by: Zac at November 07, 2012 01:00 PM (F6KtL)

300
One thing to remember as we drive towards the cliff in the coming months. The Pro Lifers can look back at yesterday and mark it as the day abortion became the law of the land for good. You can thank Akin and Mourdock for that.


We are going to have a very liberal supreme court after this Obama term, very liberal. A contsitutional amendment by be fun to talk about but will never happen. So there you have it. Abortion is here for good, not even a topic of discussion in politics anymore.

Posted by: robtr at November 07, 2012 01:00 PM (rTgOf)

301 "It was one thing for One Lone Nut to say he'd pass a law forbidding a
raped woman from taking Plan B immediately after an attack (which is a
standard current treatment). It was another thing when Richard Mourdock
turned this from One Guy Popping Off to a Widely Held Republican
Position."

This is where I start seriously thinking about finding a high bridge to dive from out of sheer despair at elementary Republican stupidity.

Akin was one thing. Akin was containable. Akin could perhaps even have been made into a plus.

If I had been running the Romney campaign, I would have put him on a jet to Missouri for a tarmac press conference without hours of Akin popping off.

I would have had Romney make it absolutely crystal clear that Akin's comments were completely unacceptable, and right there and then specifically call for Akin to leave the race. Distancing. Distancing.

Then later that night I would have worked the phones with every other GOP campaign manager in the country and told them to have their candidates memorize, word for word and letter for letter, a simple response to questions about abortion which began with the words, "Before I discuss my own views, I want to make it clear that I don't share those of Mr. Akin," or words to that effect.

Because it was clear that shit was coming. Damn near all GOP candidates other than Akin ended up getting rape-incest abortion questions deliberately dumped in their laps. And the vast majority of them handled it okay.

But it only took one, Mourdock, to give a bungled answer and to thus prove that Akinesque sentiments were "widespread" and "accepted" in the party.

Goddamned socons.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 07, 2012 01:00 PM (ymG7s)

302 >>>Indeed, the GOP didn't scare the shit out of people enough.

>>>Obama's 1st term set us up for tax hikes, energy cost hikes, and a recession. But the GOP didn't bother making the case in stark terms.

I agree. I kept asking where the Scare the Shit Out of You ads were. He ran them... in the primary.

Somehow along the way he got bewitched by the idea he'd run this high-toned, high-brow campaign.

Except he really didn't do that, either. A campaign doesn't allow you to make long, detailed arguments. It's all soundbites.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:00 PM (LCRYB)

303 I think highlighting the weird fact that Valerie Jarrett has secret service protection cold have made up a little ground.

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 07, 2012 01:00 PM (UypUQ)

304 61 >>>It's like asking for anal before a girl has even agreed to date you. Good luck getting that date.

First laugh of the day. I love this f*cking blog.


It works if you ease her mind about the need for birth control.


Posted by: rickb223 (I am John Galt) at November 07, 2012 01:00 PM (GFM2b)

305 Romney lost VA, OH, and FL. You can not do that and win because the Dems will always have CA and NY.


VA has been trending blue as DC explodes with new federal workers. Turn DC around and VA goes back red. The problem is you have to win some elections to do that. Its catch 22.


FL is turning blue because South FL is being overrun with people from PR instead of communist hating Cubans.


OH has too many urban areas and the auto bailout won it for Obama there.


In short, not only are conservatives doomed, but it appears Republicans are too if they can't beat a failure like Obama with 15% unemployment and 1% gdp.

Posted by: Vic at November 07, 2012 01:00 PM (YdQQY)

306 Yes, all these things could have put Romney in the White House. Or we could've just turned out and voted.

Posted by: Big T Party at November 07, 2012 01:00 PM (oDtMj)

307
No Romney didn't suck.

WE sucked.

America sucked.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 01:00 PM (jUytm)

308 Also, I hope the GOP finally gives up on that shithole of a state, Pennsylvania. It is a constant cocktease, and if they will vote for a guy who calls half the state "bitter clingers", the GOP will never win it. Fuck it, and stop wasting time/money on it.

Posted by: wooga at November 07, 2012 01:00 PM (vjyZP)

309 Three words... It's the media stupid...


Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna not greg/gerg at November 07, 2012 12:52 PM (9+ccr)


It's the media and the education indoctrination system. Guy at work said his nephew in grammar school said that people should vote for Barry because, Barry wants to take money from the rich and help the poor and Romney wants to take money from poor people and give it to his rich friends. Where did he hear that? His teachers. Take that and the media constantly reinforcing that message. Unless kids get deprogrammed by their parents the future generations will have no clue about the country is really about. They will be drones

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 07, 2012 01:01 PM (1Jaio)

310 Also, betting odds on the Puerto Rican statehood bill being brought up before 2016?

I bet Dems wait until 2016 so it's a nice white hot issue for the next presidential election.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 07, 2012 01:01 PM (ZPrif)

311 250 Repeat again
2008 Presidential election
Obama 69,498,215 (52.93%) McCain 59,948,240 (45.66)
2012 election
Obama 59,633,456 (50.33%) Romney 57,003,614 (48.11%)

****

Repeat and repeat.

This was a mechanical loss. Mitt's groundgame was weak enough to lose senate seats we needed from red states.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:01 PM (QxSug)

312 Even the International Observers all said as one, "WTF?! You people have no safeguards or controls over your voting at all!"

They were shocked.

One simple software patch to tabulating machines could have changed the entire outcome of the election and in this case, probably did.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 07, 2012 01:01 PM (hlUJY)

313 One other data point was that according to an early morning comment Obama got 5 million votes from the 18-30 year old age bracket. I can't vouch for the validity of that estimate, but if its true it needs to be further explored.

Did someone promise free college education, or Federal repayment of student loans while I wasn't watching?

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 07, 2012 01:01 PM (feFL6)

314 So how is Arizona, is it better than NY?

Posted by: Iblis at November 07, 2012 01:01 PM (9221z)

315 No fresh meat for the base.

Posted by: Newsweak at November 07, 2012 01:01 PM (NIZHJ)

316 >>> I disagree with this one. You don't have to make a strong argument to persuade people to oppose *that which they already oppose.*

When you're on the right side of popular opinion of an issue, you don't have to do a lot of heavy lifting on it. You just have to state your opinion.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 12:57 PM (LCRYB)

----

Doesn't matter. Romney had pretty much stopped talking about Obamacare in the last month anyway. You have a strong/clear majority of people opposing the signature policy of Obama, and Romney isn't running ads 24/7 about how he'll repeal it? Why?

Posted by: 11/6/12 - USA goes full retard at November 07, 2012 01:02 PM (/kBoL)

317 292 Romney got fewer votes than McCain, but what were the specific demographics where he took it in the shorts?

Posted by: wooga at November 07, 2012 12:59 PM (vjyZP)


Specifically, I think it was the total number of voters demographic.
All the "inside baseball" stuff tracked reasonably well.

He lost the apathetic ones.
See my #213.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 07, 2012 01:02 PM (Qxe/p)

318 He lost because the Sarah Palin voters stayed home.
Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 12:53 PM (qe2/V)
------
I agree with this rockmom. The question is who didn't come out for Romney/Ryan but came out for Palin?

I think it was the Evangelicals.

Posted by: WisRich at November 07, 2012 01:02 PM (hdpay)

319 3. Failing to Accuse Obama of Planning to Raise Taxes on the Middle Class.
This is the Big One.
Romney never fully explained what was coming down the pike in 2013 for ALL Americans.
Were in for a very bad year. And 2014 will be even worse. After that, who knows.


The failure was in the lack of advertising regarding the subject (5-10 ads, maybe?) and in not mentioning it as much as he should during the debates. But he did make a point of addressing it on the campaign trail and Ryan frequently mentioned it.

Posted by: 80sBaby at November 07, 2012 01:02 PM (YjDyJ)

320 Romney was successful in energizing his base: conservatives accounted
for 35 percent of all voters today, one-point higher than in 2008. And
he captured 82 percent of them (McCain got 78 percent). White
born-again Christians made up 26 percent of the voters today and 78
percent favored Romney (for McCain it was 74 percent). http://tinyurl.com/c8wtqv3 (In case anyone wants to blame born-agains)

Posted by: Baldy at November 07, 2012 01:02 PM (opS9C)

321 So about 2016? Any names come to mind?

Posted by: Paul at November 07, 2012 01:02 PM (xwVUV)

322 Romney ran a shitty, cowardly campaign (not in all of the post's points, but generally being non-confrontational and scared to accuse Barky of any of the myriad shit he's done). But, that shouldn't have mattered. This election was Barky versus America ... and America lost. Period. End of story.

Welcome to the American Socialist Superstate. It tastes like ASS.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (X3lox)

323 What amazes me is that coal country in PA voted for Obama. Seriously, what the hell? That's like unborn babies voting for abortion.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (hlUJY)

324
Benghazi? Overwith.
Fast Furious? Never heard of it.
Solendra and the other fake stimulus money? Gone.
GOP? whatever.

Posted by: Talibill at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (tdZGt)

325 238 Natasha
your second point is spot on. once immigration reform happens, Puerto Rico gets statehood and more old folks die while public school 'educated' youths show up at the polls, you're looking at a 1 party state.

You'd better hope we're all wrong about keynesian, technocratic, social welfare triumphalist government. Otherwise, we're looking at total dependence on creditors and the slow decay of American life before conservatives get another shot in government. It will get worse before it gets better, and any appeal to the demographics puts this in stark relief.

Posted by: Roald Dahl Paul at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (Kd6lF)

326 44 My take... The media elected obama. They covered up for him while going after Romney for Bain, not paying taxes, dog on roof and gafffffes. The deck was loaded against us...
-------------------------------

Still goes back to the electorate.

They were too stupid to see through this.

Posted by: America Fuck Yeah! at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (v/itI)

327 The airing of grievances is going to take a looooooooong time this Festivus.

Posted by: supercore23 at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (bwV72)

328 So we are going over a fiscal cliff. What are the recommendations on how to prepare for this? Honest question.

Posted by: macintx at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (/p4zq)

329 >>"Obama ran a better campaign, with a superior message that resonated with the electorate. "

And what was that "message", exactly?

By his own campaign's admission, his strategy was "Kill Romney", not "Convince the public".

I won't deny that empirically Obama had the better campaign (since it won for him), but there was no overarching message there.

It was typical Democrat/Chicago "bribe the various factions" politicking, combined with all sorts of negative campaigning (Romney kills cancer patients), etc.

Posted by: Looking closely at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (PwGfd)

330 What was Obama's Big Plan to revive the economy?

"Investments in education"

Why didn't Romney hit him on "we already have millions of college grads with no jobs" ?

Not that it would have moved Generation Juicebox


Posted by: kbdabear at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (wwsoB)

331 Ace,

Good analysis but you can pick apart every campaign, and none are perfect. Obama made mistakes too.

Reiterating in part what I've already offered. The reasons he lost:

1. Hurricane Sandy/Christie's public endorsement (Romney would have won had the election occurred right before Sandy). Event too close to the election, changed the entire conversation, blunted Romney's momentum and he didn't have enough time to re-gain it. Christie sealed the effect.

2. Unprecedented degree of "media" assist for a candidate.

3. Fraud (I just don't believe the reported low turnout numbers)

4. Friday jobs report -- although UE number went up, so did the number of reported jobs and we know which one the "Yahoo News" types highlighted.

Also, I don't buy all the Monday-morning quarterbacking that there's been an irreversible demographic shift and only Dems can win now. Again, I think Romney would have won absent the above factors. However, I do think the EC needs to be reformed so that urban centers (where most of the fraud occurs, by the way) should not determine all of a state's EVs.


Posted by: TD at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (DQMcq)

332 296

the GOP cannot give up on "Roe," no matter how implausible it may seem in the future

I guess maybe I'm dogmatic on this but whatever. It's a large part of mine, and others votes (not saying it's the only thing.) Aside from just plain right v. wrong I am still not convinced going squish on it is a net vote winner where potential new voters (who may despise the GOP on non-social issues anyway) make up for the loss in reliable support.

not to say i disagree with Ace's point about the hard-case stuff, and philosopher-kings vs. governing.

Posted by: JDP at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (60GaT)

333

5, 8 & 10

5 -- I think this was the biggest reason.

8 -- A big Amen to that. The majority of women want their "choice" protected whether they believe in abortion or not. But, rape and the morning after pill. Don't go there, ever.

10 - This was just backwards and sick. The "he inherited a mess" meme was touted even by Romney. This is NOT how you win. (see previous comment -- the libs will stoop to the lowest of lows, and Romney goes with "he's a good guy, he cares about his country, he's a good family man, and he inherited a mess...") That is NOT how you win.


11 -- find a way to get to the brain dead voters. I don't know the answer to this. It is repeated that Romney did not reach so and so, or did not say so and so. But, he did say a lot, and it wasn't heard. How do you break down the firewall media, yes, but how do you get through the brain dead skulls? The reality TV set. The American Idol potus set? The young gamers?

So many people are so far gone, and there will be more. Perhaps we need to really focus and begin infiltrating the public school systems and universities; the seeds of liberalism. We think we can home school. We can go to Hillsdale College, or whatever. We can watch Fox. Go to Ace's site. But, we aren't making a dent in the rooted institutions where the seeds are being planted. Alternatives and choices are great, but not while the very laws and regulations and policies that upheld the formation of them are being chiseled and destroyed in parallel to building them.

Posted by: the day after at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (LpQbZ)

334 My delusional hypocrite brother-in-law lawyer posted to his Facebook page his attendance at an Obama victory party held in ... his private country club.

I say call them out and make them own it. You Chardonnay Socialists want to raise taxes? Ok. We'll see your tax hike and raise you eliminating ALL deductions. If you can buy it or sell it or hold it in your hand or your head, then tax it. Mr. Springsteen, YOU can pay your new 90% rate on the 1040 EZ-form. And we'll tax the horse your daughter rode in on while we're at it.

Movie tickets, Political biographies. Tax 'em at least a 100%.

Let's tax wealth. Federal tax on real estate and copyrights.

I'm full Michael Moore. Burn the fucker down.

Posted by: Mikey Moore at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (Xv7f/)

335
Yes, why didn't/don't we vilify the people surrounding Obama such as Axelrod and Jarrett?

We do it on blogs and the radio, but the GOP should be doing it. They should be saying their names with contempt at every turn -- just like how the Democrats used to say Rove, Rumsfeld, Cheney, etc.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (jUytm)

336 @278 Almost anything would be a better campaign than the one that failed to point out the obvious, namely, that L'il Barry is an actual Communist, a pot-head, math-impaired, probably a homo or worse, and is a preening Narcissist.
In the old days, when men were men and women were women, any one of those facts would have sent L'il Barry back to the Ivy League faster than the bugs dropping off a "suspect" getting the electrical treatment in the basement at HQ.

Posted by: Thorvald at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (1V6Pv)

337 But, the free stuff cannot go on forever and when it runs out what do the bottem feeders do?

I was going to say, "Who cares?" but The Terror will behead the serfs who work for a living instead of the aristocrats who live large off their labor (handing out the occasional crumb to the Free Shit Army (I love that phrase!)), because they're that fucking ignorant.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (/kI1Q)

338 This wa all about turnout. Our people didn't turn out. I am fucking baffled as to why they didn't but they didn't. Only idea I have is that Christians didn't want to vote for a Mormon, but I'm reaching there.

Posted by: Big T Party at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (oDtMj)

339 The hispanics are big on immigration? What do they want, exactly?
Posted by: joeindc44 will start talking like biden. like. biden. at November 07, 2012 12:39 PM (QxSug)

To come here, stay here, bring their family and friends here and get Free Shit.

What do I win?

Posted by: Nighthawk at November 07, 2012 01:04 PM (n1x7a)

340 314 - do we have any grounds to stand on for not letting Puerto Rico become a state?

If we don't think our ideas can be appealing to them, shame on us (and shame on them I suppose).

Posted by: Jose/ningrim at November 07, 2012 01:04 PM (srIqv)

341 The young Cubans don't hate communism anymore.

The commie-hating Cubans are all dying.

Ozzie Guillen, the (former) head coach of the Miami Marlins baseball team praised Castro in an interview. The hated enemy of all commie-hating Cubans, right? Everyone assumed he was toast, would be fired the next day.

All the anti-Castro Cuban community could muster was a single day of protests on opening day. A few geriatric old Cuban men with signs. Next day it was forgotten.

Ozzie got fired after one season, but that's cause the Marlins sucked, not cause Ozzie praised Castro.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 07, 2012 01:04 PM (ZPrif)

342 Looks like I was right when discussing the issue of religion with the troll...

Posted by: Baldy at November 07, 2012 01:04 PM (opS9C)

343 It's possible that Guatemalans and Hondurans who want free shit in Iowa don't give a shit about dead Mexicans in Mexico.


Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 12:57 PM (/kI1Q)

That's actually more true than you realize.

Posted by: YIKES! at November 07, 2012 01:04 PM (1PE/J)

344 We do need to find out why so many Rs stayed home. Was it a bad turnout effort? Was it because Romney is a Mormon? Did the evangelicals not show up? Was it the fact that both R/R were Yankees? I think there was not much gender gap at all. In other words, it appears Romney may not have appealed to blue collar males.

Don't know the answer. But that needs to be the first order of business. Find out why he lost so many McCain voters.

Posted by: Spike at November 07, 2012 01:04 PM (wtnmC)

345 They want the abortions to be FREE, Santa comes in an abortionmobile. It's all about the free stuff.

Posted by: madamex at November 07, 2012 01:04 PM (+kvQd)

346 2008 O69.5M (52.93%) McCain 59.9M (45.66).2012 O59.6 (50.33%) R 57M (48.11%).

Forget recriminations about policy. This was a turnout loss.

And forget the exit polls, they're meaningless inasmuch as we have no faith in what they tell us. What can we take away from people who vote rapebortion but tell us economy is #1?

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:05 PM (QxSug)

347 100 @81

Romney was mormon, this turned off a lot of evangelicals and hispanics. My grandparents in CO who are hispanic didnt vote for him cause he is a mormon
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at November 07, 2012 12:40 PM (g5liS)

Wow. Thanks! I guess its okay for me to say I voted against TFMuslimG cuz he is well ... black and a muslim.

Posted by: osu at November 07, 2012 01:05 PM (G4dDt)

348 So, we pulled 08, minus 3 million voters. Some Obots switched, some indies switched. So really, of the people that showed up in 08, 4 million stayed home.

Where are they? Who are they? And why?

Posted by: Hopeless at November 07, 2012 01:05 PM (KZ5KD)

349 Meghan McCain is available. We seem to be out of Democrats with R's next to their names. Unopposed?

Posted by: Newsweak at November 07, 2012 01:05 PM (NIZHJ)

350
I asked on Monday if Mitt left ammo on the table.

The answer is Hell Yes.

We had 4 years to prepare to defeat a lousy president and 4 years of accumulated ammo to use against Obama.

Mitt hardly scratched the surface.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 01:05 PM (jUytm)

351 Thoughtful analysis.

Note: Cold but sunny day in Michigan. Feels kind of fitting for what has happened

Posted by: Mikey NTH - counting the days at November 07, 2012 01:05 PM (hLRSq)

352 327
What amazes me is that coal country in PA voted for Obama. Seriously,
what the hell? That's like unborn babies voting for abortion.


Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM

They fell for the "clean coal" lie that TFG talked about whenever he was in PA or OH

And their union bosses told them they knew who they voted for and where they lived

Posted by: kbdabear at November 07, 2012 01:05 PM (wwsoB)

353 I agree with everyone about the media but the media is not something we can change.

Then neither is the result. Everything you mentioned would have been or was taken care of by the media.

Posted by: t-bird at November 07, 2012 01:05 PM (FcR7P)

354
I think 20/20 hindsight can be a good exercise. That being the case, I would rather have Mitt and all the other candidates do nothing but the old "they are huge tax and spenders", just make shit up because the dems have all come up with a tax plan on just about everything.

Doesn't matter what the question is, "that guy is going to tax you" is the answer. Its an American Idol country and you have to keep things very very simple.

Abortion - that guy is gonna tax you. Spending - that guy is gonna tax you. Military - that guy is gonna tax you. Marriage - that guy is gonna tax you. Inflation - that guy is gonna tax you. Foot sores - that guy is gonna tax you, twice, once for each foot.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 07, 2012 01:05 PM (PHb2k)

355 I disagree. I posit that there isn't a single Obama voter that would change their vote to Romney. Find one, sit them down and ask them if they would have voted for Romney over Obama if he:

A) had actively prevented intervention in Benghazi?
B) had never visited the hurricane damaged areas?
C) was richer than Romney?
D) was pro-life?
E) all of the above?

These people didn't reason themselves into supporting Obama. They just know he's good and Romney is bad. They were never open to being convinced to support Romney. The Dilbert guy had it right. For these people, there is no such thing as a 'firing offense'.

Romney lost because there are more of them than us.

Posted by: Mob at November 07, 2012 01:05 PM (lVDhv)

356 So, you ask her for a date first, then bring up the anal later. I should probably write that down.

Posted by: Moron in a Leopard Snuggie at November 07, 2012 01:05 PM (Ks4nX)

357 Last night I laid even odds that the discussion here today would turn into a referendum on social conservatism. I should have bet the farm.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at November 07, 2012 01:05 PM (vbh31)

358 **344 The hispanics are big on immigration? What do they want, exactly?
Posted by: joeindc44 will start talking like biden. like. biden. at November 07, 2012 12:39 PM (QxSug)

To come here, stay here, bring their family and friends here and get Free Shit.**

well, gee, that doesn't seem like a good deal to me. The lena dunham white american voter may need to give up the white guilt before we move on this issue.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:06 PM (QxSug)

359 Winter is coming.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 07, 2012 12:59 PM (ZrUUM)


Winter is here.

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 07, 2012 01:06 PM (da5Wo)

360 Grounds for not admitting Puerto Rico. -- uh, how about because they are a nation of hard-left socialists. They want to be a state because they want more welfare. Fuck them.

Are we obligated to let anybody become a state if they want welfare? Do we have grounds for blocking Liberia from becoming a state?

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 07, 2012 01:06 PM (ZPrif)

361 I agree. I kept asking where the Scare the Shit Out of You ads were. He ran them... in the primary.



Somehow along the way he got bewitched by the idea he'd run this high-toned, high-brow campaign.



Except he really didn't do that, either. A campaign doesn't allow you to make long, detailed arguments. It's all soundbites.





Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:00 PM (LCRYB)

I think this error can be attributed to those focus group studies the GOP made finding that undecideds would be spooked by tough talk about Obama... and instead should be gently urged that "Its Ok." *pat on head* messaging to vote against Obama.

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 07, 2012 01:06 PM (UypUQ)

362 320 Doesn't matter. Romney had pretty much stopped talking about Obamacare
in the last month anyway. You have a strong/clear majority of people
opposing the signature policy of Obama, and Romney isn't running ads
24/7 about how he'll repeal it? Why?

Because he never intended, we're stuck with that sucker, all we can hope for will be common sense revisions.

Posted by: Shirley at November 07, 2012 01:06 PM (U4ceb)

363 The failure was in the lack of advertising regarding
the subject (5-10 ads, maybe?) and in not mentioning it as much as he
should during the debates. But he did make a point of addressing it on
the campaign trail and Ryan frequently mentioned it.


Posted by: 80sBaby at November 07, 2012 01:02 PM (YjDyJ)

Mentioning it on the campaign trail makes no difference because the media doesn't have to report it. But put an ad on tv in front of 10 million viewers will make a difference.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at November 07, 2012 01:06 PM (NzBQO)

364 290 You know Hillbuzz is an Obama disinfo site don't you?
Posted by: John Bissell at November 07, 2012 12:59 PM (tjem6)



You're heapin' full-O-shit.

Next.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 07, 2012 01:06 PM (HKONC)

365 So about 2016? Any names come to mind?

----

ha

Ha Ha

BWAHAHAHAHAHHA........ you guys aint making it to Christmas.

Posted by: Mayan Calendar at November 07, 2012 01:06 PM (yzX2R)

366 342 This wa all about turnout. Our people didn't turn out. I am fucking baffled as to why they didn't but they didn't. Only idea I have is that Christians didn't want to vote for a Mormon, but I'm reaching there.

Posted by: Big T Party at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (oDtMj)


I don't think that's a reach.

I base my opinion on comments from a couple of overly zealous "real Christian" sisters-in-law.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 07, 2012 01:06 PM (Qxe/p)

367 Welcome to the 21st century.

Which will look increasingly like the 17th.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 07, 2012 01:07 PM (QupBk)

368
i live in southern california and i can tell you liberals here don't vote because they love their ideals they will actually vote against their own self interest because theliberals herehate republicans with every fiber of their being and they would rather see the country burn than a republican in office.thats the difference between us and them and thats why until we start thinking more like them they'll always turnout it greater numbers than us

Posted by: kj at November 07, 2012 01:07 PM (AW9md)

369
Posted by: Don't blame me, it was all the other stuff at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM (PpnKd)

Nobody cares what you think, fuckface.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 01:07 PM (jUytm)

370 3. Fraud (I just don't believe the reported low turnout numbers)



fraud would mostly end with ONE DAY VOTING -- ELECTION DAY, and VOTER ID.

(with the exception of ex-pats and military, of course)

Posted by: the day after at November 07, 2012 01:07 PM (LpQbZ)

371 Whatever. How do i protect my family from this government

Posted by: thunderb. at November 07, 2012 01:07 PM (+tOaC)

372 I can't take 8 years of incompetence, cronyism, and deceit.
I can't take 8 years of no justice, no integrity, and no morals.

Posted by: Iblis at November 07, 2012 01:07 PM (9221z)

373 The Dow,

you are missing other possibilities. People have been making the case -- and I don't like this case, but nevertheless, it does make sense -- that the Republican Party is not offering enough, I'll use the word, socialism for downscale white voters who do in fact like the idea of Republicanism but crave the comforts of Daddy Government.

One problem is that Romney was talking so much about Winners and those who Risk and Aspire that he didn't talk much about economic Losers.

I don't mean Losers in the normal baiting way. But if you're a low-income white or Hispanic, and you don't have the energy, ability, or inclination to open your own business, what exactly is the GOP offering you?

Now, when I say this, I'm NOT agreeing with a policy of socialism.

But I do wonder if a lot of low-income voters stayed home because the GOP seems to be all about the Winners.

There are a lot of people who aren't Winners. I don't know what to do about this because the way to attract someone who's not making his own way in life is to offer some Government Assistance, which is precisely the wrong thing.

But I don't think it's necessarily about evangelicals.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:07 PM (LCRYB)

374 The Republican party is done with. The social cons demand abortion be at the front and center. Fine, but then why didn't you show up at the polls? Because Romney was a Mormon? Fuck you. Watch Obama stack the Supreme Court with three more liberals you dumbasses and keep Roe V Wade the law of the land.

Posted by: Zac at November 07, 2012 01:07 PM (F6KtL)

375 Turnout. Turnout. Turnout. Turnout. Turnout. Turnout. Turnout.

Posted by: Big T Party at November 07, 2012 01:08 PM (oDtMj)

376 Did someone promise free college education, or Federal repayment of student loans while I wasn't watching?

They're obsessed with sex.

My young cow-orkers are giddy this morning...free birth control! Free abortion! Gay marriage! Their unemployed friends are gonna stay that way, but they can still fuck indiscriminantly and with abandon since Romney won't be taking sex away, and the government will fund any consequence.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 01:08 PM (/kI1Q)

377 Re: turnout questions, at Free Republic they want to know about disgruntled Paul supporters.
This bears repeating over and over: if you lose American values, you lose America no matter how many elections you win, you dumb f**ks!
Ah, yes, it's all about political power-- NOT!

Posted by: Thorvald at November 07, 2012 01:08 PM (1V6Pv)

378 Get some flashlights. 10,000 years of darkness is coming.

Posted by: Newsweak at November 07, 2012 01:08 PM (NIZHJ)

379 Repubs are still pretending elections are about issues and faggy shit like that. Coming up with arguments about what is for the greater good

Dems know elections are about raw tribalism.

Romney, Not One of Us.

That was Obama's closing message. And it worked.

Nothing about taxes, or abortion, or foreign policy, or energy. Just raw Us vs Them. Get Revenge against Them.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 07, 2012 01:08 PM (ZPrif)

380 even SNL made fun of obama's message. "teachers and taxes."

fuck.

this is such bullshit. I agree with rapebortion and some other things but obama lost 13M votes from 2008. people stayed home. or they all died. We needed 2M more votes and we should have gotten them.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:08 PM (QxSug)

381 325 - if it's not a center-right country anymore and we don't want to abandon our principles, we need a salesman for our ideas

That means Rubio, Ryan, Jindal, Rand Paul, or someone we haven't heard of yet.

Rubio makes a ton of sense given demographics and the superficial nature of the electorate.

Posted by: Jose/ningrim at November 07, 2012 01:08 PM (srIqv)

382 349 We do need to find out why so many Rs stayed home. Was it a bad turnout effort? Was it because Romney is a Mormon? Did the evangelicals not show up? Was it the fact that both R/R were Yankees? I think there was not much gender gap at all. In other words, it appears Romney may not have appealed to blue collar males.

Don't know the answer. But that needs to be the first order of business. Find out why he lost so many McCain voters.
Posted by: Spike at November 07, 2012 01:04 PM (wtnmC)


________________________


Correct. Haven't completely looked at the exits--

but--could have been the damn Third Rail--that might have had something to do with it--in say--Florida.

Also the non military, not Defense ticket.

Then the first essentially non-protestant ticket in history.

Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 01:08 PM (r2PLg)

383 The War on Womyn strategy was underestimated by us. It got the hardcore lefties and young single women to crawl over broken condoms to vote for TFG

When they complain they have no jobs, everything costs too much, and they're deep in debt, it'll take all the restraint I have to keep from saying to them "go get yourself an abortion to cheer yourself up, honey"

Posted by: kbdabear at November 07, 2012 01:08 PM (wwsoB)

384 Now, understand this: I'm not against that at all. I do not want more
illegal immigrants coming here and becoming citizens, not because I'm
anti-brown, but because I'm anti-red. Illegal immigrants from socialist
countries tend to be poor and desiring of socialist cures for their
relative poverty. The other thing they seem to want is more immigrants
from poor socialist Latin America countries coming here to be citizens.

Europe is Socialist. Who do you think European immigrants would vote for? They would vote for the Dems.

Stop referring to Hispanics as Brown. According to the census, most identify as White. The GOP needs to stop viewing Hispanics as a racial group and more like a cultural group. Acknowledging the true nature of the Hispanic community would be a good start.

Posted by: Mega at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (idyso)

385 I think this idea that "evangelicals didn't show up" started in 2008. I think it was also debunked. I forget the details, but I remember them being a popular scapegoat, and then I remember someone putting up some information that debunked that.

Obviously my memory is sketchy. But I don't think this is right, and I'd like to see the data on this.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (LCRYB)

386 Ace, I'm deeply impressed that you could organize your thoughts so well so quickly. I'm still pole-axed.

Posted by: Roman Polanski at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (IlZPo)

387 In the battle of Santa Claus versus Working Hard, Santa Claus wins.

Posted by: Mister Christopher at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (DQhAB)

388 My guess is that Hillary will fade from politics: the upcoming failures and excuses are all BO's and the Democrats. Who's left?
Posted by: Arbalest at November 07, 2012 12:48 PM (rlWf0)

Wrong. The House will get the blame for the coming shit storm.

Posted by: RWC at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (fWAjv)

389 The attack portion of Mitt's campaign worked great. It doesn't matter how much he did or didn't talk about Fast and Furious, Bengazi or anything else, Obama got 10 million fewer votes.

We have to figure out why fewer republicans voted this time.

Posted by: jwest at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (ZDsRL)

390 Winter is here.
Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 07, 2012 01:06 PM (da5Wo)



That's why I'm...

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (HKONC)

391 228 Democrats get 25% of the vote out of the gate just out of racial/ethnic hatred. Romney has a white face -- immediately 25% of the country will vote against him.
------------------------------------

We shouldn't ignore or shy away from this.

It's reality.

Posted by: America Fuck Yeah! at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (OL96w)

392 My gut tells me a lot of evangelicals didn't vote for R/R. There's definitely an anti-Mormon factor and I know some evangelicals don't care much for Catholics either.

Posted by: Chairman LMAO at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (9eDbm)

393
1) We have a shitload of Governors. They can stop a lot of Obama's BS.

>Half of us live in Blue states, so no hope for us there.


2) We have a bigger and likely pissed off House Majority. Next time Obama tries going around them they can go scorched Earth on him.

>Boehner has already shown his belly. Once again it will be the Democrats and Republican leadership joining forces to roll over the House conservatives because "sequestration oh noes!".


Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (kdS6q)

394 Well it was agreed that the family foundation (not big by any means) run by my father will be investing in a rubber stamp and all requests for donation will be returned with:

We're out of the charity business. Ask the government.

Posted by: H Badger at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (n/0Nw)

395 i live in southern california and i can tell you liberals here don't vote because they love their ideals they will actually vote against their own self interest because theliberals herehate republicans with every fiber of their being and they would rather see the country burn than a republican in office.thats the difference between us and them and thats why until we start thinking more like them they'll always turnout it greater numbers than us
Posted by: kj at November 07, 2012 01:07 PM (AW9md)



Prime Minister S. Harper, a conservative, won the election in Canada after a party merge and name change.

It was no longer affiliated with the old party with such a hated taint....

Posted by: the day after at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (LpQbZ)

396 >>>Here's an actual reason, rather than an escapist excuse:

>>>Obama ran a better campaign, with a superior message that resonated with the electorate.

Really? That's what you think? Obama's awesome campaign was "Romney Sux!!!!!!!1111"

Once again if that's all it takes to hold onto your job at 7.9% unemployment, running guns into Mexico, getting Ambassadors killed, forcing through legislation the majority of the country doesn't like and doesn't want, we really lost this election a long long time ago see my comment at 252.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (0q2P7)

397 Out, damned sock, out!

Posted by: Otis Criblecoblis at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (IlZPo)

398 How in the world did Romney get fewer votes that McCain? What person who voted McCain would have stayed home this election?

Posted by: Warden at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (0DlnM)

399 Doesn't matter to me what romney did or didn't do. I gotta walk past that fucksticks picture day in and day out every workday for the next four years and keep my feelings to myself. Low doesn;t even begin to explain my motivation right now.

Posted by: Talibill at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (tdZGt)

400 They never went at Obama on the state of the economy effectively. They never went at Obama on Benghazi effectively. They never went at Obama on Unemployment effectively. They never went at Obama on his war on coal effectively. They never went at Obama on his policies that would "cause the price of energy to NECESSARILY SKYROCKET.


I could go on, but I'd want to shoot myself again.

They ran a poor campaign. Where the FUCK was Reince Priebus? They took ALL that donation money and fucked us with it. Yes....they did. They did NOTHING to assist the election campaign.

Why are Republicans SUCH PUSSIES!?!?!?!?

How was this much different from the failed McCain campaign?

Republicans learn NOTHING from the past and FAIL because of it.

Democrats learn NOTHING from the past because they keep getting REWARDED for doing the same thing over and over.

America, God rest your soul.

Posted by: © Sponge at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (UK9cE)

401 The social cons demand abortion be at the front and center.

The only people who mentioned abortion this cycle were the gyno-fascist wing of the Free Shit Army, and the SWPL jerks getting the vapors over the horrible brute who wouldn't say babies with felon fathers deserve to be destroyed.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 01:10 PM (/kI1Q)

402 Last night I laid even odds that the discussion here today would turn into a referendum on social conservatism. I should have bet the farm.
Posted by: Soap MacTavish at November 07, 2012 01:05 PM (vbh31)


Thats not up for a vote. The Republican Party cannot win withoutSoCons. Thats just reality and trying to appease the cool kids and stay off defending social conservative positions with confidence doesnt work.

Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 07, 2012 01:10 PM (bonPh)

403
A campaign doesn't allow you to make long, detailed arguments. It's all soundbites.

THIS is our biggest problem making our case. How do we explain our positions on, say, affirmative action, in one sentence?

We can't. But the Democrats have it easy. They're simply for it. And we are simply against minorities.

Posted by: soothsayer at November 07, 2012 01:10 PM (jUytm)

404 **But I don't think it's necessarily about evangelicals.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:07 PM (LCRYB)**

IDK. I was expecting the rust belt version of the evangelical vote to carry those sweet, sweet states.

the limited evangelical contact I have seems to indicate that the mormon thing was a BFD.

well, enjoy it. I hope the USA catholic church shuts down all its hospitals, etc.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:10 PM (QxSug)

405 One thing I kept thinking listening to people like Rush Romney, during the campaign: MOST people are NOT entrepreneurs. Most people are not leaders or risk-takers. all of the talk of entrepreneurs did not help. Most people work for someone else, they don't own the business. Maybe if you're trying to get elected to the Rotary Club... This is one think I remember most, which was off-putting to me (and my dad was an entrepreneur). I did not feel Romney was talking to me.

Posted by: Baldy at November 07, 2012 01:10 PM (opS9C)

406 ground game; there was enthusiasm for Romney, but somehow it did not translate into votes where it counted

Posted by: runner at November 07, 2012 01:10 PM (WR5xI)

407 What we know now is that this election was about base turnout. Obama ran his campaign solely focused on his base. Romney made a hard run at the middle. Won Indys by +5%. But his base didn't turn out.

Posted by: Big T Party at November 07, 2012 01:10 PM (oDtMj)

408 the GOP cannot give up on "Roe," no matter how implausible it may seem in the future

That's true - futile, but true. Roe is an awful, insane decision and will remain so forever, as logic is immutable. Of course, it now pales in comparison to Benedickhead Roberts' unbelievably lunatic ObamaScare decision (which was a full-blown leap into the abyss) and his establishment of the feral government's power to tax anything and everything and even nothing without it actually being a tax (or anything close).

There is nothing left. Logic and reason have been beaten into the ground. We have a judiciary that has "empathy" as a legitimate main criterion for judges or decisions, which has shat upon over three millenia of history and the keystone of Western jurisprudence.

Western civilization has been mortally wounded and will be no more. The tribalists got what they wanted. The civilization that has done more for their world (and their sorry, pathetic asses) than anyone or anythign else in history has been taken apart and left to die in the ice. Fuck them. They deserve what is coming to them. We don't, of course, but we have no choice in the matter - not until a new America is birthed, if that is even possible in such a demented, twisted world.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (X3lox)

409 #332

If you have resources buy hard assets, which will hold their value through any period of inflation or economic downturn.

If not, you're boned.


Posted by: Looking closely at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (PwGfd)

410 Here's an actual reason, rather than an escapist excuse:

Obama ran a better campaign, with a superior message that resonated with the electorate.


You're delusional.

Obama's entire campaign "message" consisted of "Sure, I kinda sucked. But the other guy sucks a lot more. You voted for me once already, so just fall back on that."

He did meet his goal of getting voters so disenchanted with the election and politics that they didn't bother to vote though. So you do have that going for you.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (SY2Kh)

411 Serious question: What would Breitbart do?

Posted by: Dante at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (NWLVJ)

412 393 In the battle of Santa Claus versus Working Hard, Santa Claus wins.
Posted by: Mister Christopher at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (DQhAB)



We are the elves!

Posted by: the day after at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (LpQbZ)

413 288
The reason Romney lost is because America "Has more takers then
producers now". The losers of this country now want their free stuff.
But, the free stuff cannot go on forever and when it runs out what do
the bottem feeders do?

***

Riot.

Posted by: Obla di at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (Xv7f/)

414 Boehner and McConnell pissed away the tea party victories of 2010. When will Republicans get some balls?

Posted by: liontooth at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (xk0Xg)

415 Awww.....

Thanks for the validation, troll. Now I know I'm on the right track. If I am your diametric opposite, then I'm right where I need to be.

Don't worry, l will still be around when the free money runs out. Can't wait to have this discussion again, dimwit.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (ZrUUM)

416 "Never mind calling him a socialist. How about a liberal?"

Ha ha ha.
The current meme going around the gloating Left discussing the Day After is that Obama is the moderate Republican which moderates and Republicans fancy themselves to be.

Posted by: BuddyPC at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (jfUIE)

417 We lose because we have people that will always vote for the guy that tells them that they can keep all their stuff and have someone else pay for it. People are economic idiots.

You can't make the housing bubble case, because they don't understand it. We're going full steam ahead same course on education. They truly believe you can hand out grants left and right with little regard for academic capacity, and still keep a diploma as a valued piece of paper....and ohbytheway, lets say we can make tuition CHEAPER while we're at it. And then entitlements? Romney couldn't have broached that in a better way.

This is what we are up against here. Romney ran a solid campaign, but it doesn't matter. Big Bird, Contraception, Bain, Cancer, Pay a little more. Has to be condensed to a ridiculously simple theme. We're not up to the real challenges. Not even close.

Posted by: Dave S. at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (UvR6d)

418 Ace, I agree with most of your points... But I'll make the some comment I made last night...
Romney, the man, is a competant manager and by all accounts a likable guy. But he is not conservative. He's poll-driven, and as polls change his views change (although in this cycle, he knew that was his reputation, and ended up standing by some STUPID positions, like Romneycare). He is not an ideologue... And we need someone who can speak over the media and make a case for conservativism. To most of the liberals and the low information idiots, conservatives are anti-fun, anti-poor, anti-whatever. Most of them can't say anything that conservatives are pro- except guns and religion (thus obamas bitter clinger comment).
Yes, this is the medias fault. But our choices are to sell conservativism as an idea or just give up on it, and join the enemy and enjoy our last few years/decades as a superpower before it all collapses.
That's it. Bob Dole, George Bush, John McCain, Mitt Romney... these men could not sit at a table with you and explain conservatism and why they believe in it.
We vote for elected officials to represent us because we think they'll vote how we would. If we don't know their core beliefs and why they feel that way... well... fuck it.

Posted by: Timin203 at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (5WxMt)

419 398
My gut tells me a lot of evangelicals didn't vote for R/R. There's
definitely an anti-Mormon factor and I know some evangelicals don't care
much for Catholics either.


Posted by: Chairman LMAO at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (9eDbm)
If that turns out to be true ... well fuck'em. I'll be flying my rainbow flag here on out.

Posted by: Long Island at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (EsJl1)

420 We are a nation of scavengers. R.I.P the United States of America. Get out of the military and don't let your kids enter the military because Obama and the Scavengers of the United States of America do not have your back.

Posted by: Timwi at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (pdhxN)

421 404 How in the world did Romney get fewer votes that McCain? What person who voted McCain would have stayed home this election?

Posted by: Warden at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (0DlnM)


Once again, I refer you to my #213.
It really was that bad.
Especially if you remember how much we all wanted to vote for McCain.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (Qxe/p)

422 The democrats lost 10 million votes from 2008 - 10 million. They were expecting to lose. They were as shocked as we were that GOP voters chose to allow all of the crap from the past four years to stand.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (ZDP2l)

423 the tax thing is big and still plays to dumb voters and I will give you an example from California;
Prop 30: raises taxes on the rich and raises sales tax "temporarily" passed(52.5%/47.5%)
Prop 38: raises taxes on the rich also raises income taxes on everyone else Failed(27.5%/72.5%) "
And you could have voted yes on both.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (NzBQO)

424 Are we obligated to let anybody become a state if they want welfare?

They already get welfare, are exempt from Federal income tax, and are free to move to the US (where they then have to pay income tax). Not sure what statehood buys them unless they can get even more free shit if they have a Senator.

Posted by: t-bird at November 07, 2012 01:12 PM (FcR7P)

425
249I've said before I'm amazed that before Fox News, talk radio, and the Internet, Republicans ever won a single Presidential election. I remain amazed.


Back then, Democrats were still loyal Americans, not Reds. Read JFK's speeches; he'd be denounced as a raving right-winger today. (I once burned a liberal online with aquote that I attributed to Rush. Liberal rants about how nuts and stupid Rush is, only to learn the quote was from JFK. Boy, was he pissed!).

In addition to JFK, remember that LBJ, while a terrible President who gave stuff to the "free pho'" set, also contrived to get us into Vietnam because he thought it was the only way to prevent a Communist takeover.Leading Dems, such as Scoop Jackson, were strongly pro-American, and interventionist in foreign policy (much more so than Republicans, who had a little isolationist streak).

So back then, the media were not the problem they are now. We now appreciate that the media are Communist-infested, and to some extent always have been (Hi Walter! Hi Whitaker!), but both parties were anti-Communist. Europeans used to say Americans really had no choice in their elections.

Now, however, one party is Communist (or social democratic, which is the same thing), and one isn't, so there's a point to the Red media coming down heavily on one side. That, plus decades of subtle indoctrination in schools and entertainment, have gotten us to where we are today.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at November 07, 2012 01:12 PM (4u2LN)

426 What the fuck would Sun-tsu do?

Can you parlay a disaster caused by idiots you know and live around, and turn it to your benefit? Probably not, if you want to keep your dignity.

Posted by: model_1066 at November 07, 2012 01:12 PM (nuLjn)

427
You can parse this shit until the cows come home. I shall stick to Occam's razor: Stupid people. They are everywhere, but mostly in the northeast and west coast.
Secession

Posted by: maddogg at November 07, 2012 01:12 PM (OlN4e)

428
'The only people who mentioned abortion this cycle were the gyno-fascist wing of the Free Shit Army, and the SWPL jerks getting the vapors over the horrible brute who wouldn't say babies with felon fathers deserve to be destroyed.'

Explain Akin/Murdock then. Romney wins those states by wide margins, yet we lose two important Senate seats. Why?

Posted by: Zac at November 07, 2012 01:12 PM (F6KtL)

429 >>>I know some evangelicals don't care much for Catholics either.

That's like saying some children don't like brussels sprouts. It's an oddity you find one that does.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 07, 2012 01:12 PM (0q2P7)

430 Every one of these reasons is correct. However, it doesn't matter. Obama made mistakes -- some huge ones -- and has the worst record in modern history. Romney shouldn't have had to run the perfect campaign to beat him.

The question is, was it the power of the incumbency (a la 2004) or the end of the line for America? Of course, it could be both.

"I think Rubio is the answer as in it plays to the Democrats genius game of race-politics. Forget whose turn it is."

You can't forget that. This is the GOP -- they just don't pick the new shit. It's Dems who pick the new shit. In 2008 I told you it would be Sarah or Romney this year. Today it's just as clear it will be Sarah or Jeb in 2016. Not optimal but almost certain.

Posted by: someone (OG) at November 07, 2012 01:12 PM (oDtYC)

431 Romney let Obama define him early resulting in an uphill battle and he got less votes than McCain somehow.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 07, 2012 01:12 PM (4cRnj)

432 If I were campaigning and got the nomination, I'd have every single R running that year receive a phone call detailing the endorsed responses to abortion questions. You don't have to sell out, you just can't sound like a dumbass.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 75% more DOOM! at November 07, 2012 01:12 PM (xAtAj)

433 @ 395 jwest

We have to figure out why fewer republicans voted this time.

They died. The GOP is too geared towards older voters. Their ranks are not being replenished.

Posted by: Mega at November 07, 2012 01:12 PM (idyso)

434 Rush hitting great points now

Posted by: Albie Damned at November 07, 2012 01:12 PM (biwMC)

435 I don't mean Losers in the normal baiting way. But if you're a low-income white or Hispanic, and you don't have the energy, ability, or inclination to open your own business, what exactly is the GOP offering you?

Now, when I say this, I'm NOT agreeing with a policy of socialism.

But I do wonder if a lot of low-income voters stayed home because the GOP seems to be all about the Winners.

There are a lot of people who aren't Winners. I don't know what to do about this because the way to attract someone who's not making his own way in life is to offer some Government Assistance, which is precisely the wrong thing.

But I don't think it's necessarily about evangelicals.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:07 PM (LCRYB)

_______________________

Okay--really didn't think of that.

Didn't look at the exit polling for income...

One thing that sucks about exit polling--kind of hard to tell who stayed home....

But--if the stayed home after Obama--you work with who showed up...

You have to offset one minority with the other pluralities.

Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 01:12 PM (r2PLg)

436 >>>Obama ran a better campaign, with a superior message that resonated with the electorate.

I'll agree to "resonated with the electorate" anyway.

We wanted to believe people wanted opportunities more than they wanted free shit/fashionability, and we were wrong.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 01:12 PM (/kI1Q)

437 I won.

Posted by: Greg at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (nQwR9)

Your prize is a math quiz.

Posted by: YIKES! at November 07, 2012 01:13 PM (1PE/J)

438 It is like trying to pin the release of OJ Simpson on the prosecution rather than a rotten jury. If four years of total and complete failure can't convince the voters that Obama is a disaster then there is nothing Romney or anyone else could have done.

People see what they believe and they believe what they need. The Obama voters don't want to believe that they were idiots for electing Obama so they created one that does not exist and voted for him.

BTW where can I buy some gold?

Posted by: Bob from Virginia at November 07, 2012 01:13 PM (SBjsJ)

439 I think Rubio should come right out and offer a comprehensive immigration plan as soon as possible. Get ahead of the Democrats on this, explain it forcefully,and dare the Demsto tableit and then pound this home and constantly remind everyone about it once they do. Because they will push it aside, they don't want to allow us to get credit for this.

Posted by: Uncle Milty at November 07, 2012 01:13 PM (8J5Ck)

440 Given the shit Obama pulled on Catholic institutions regarding birth control, the religious right SHOULD HAVE turned out in record numbers.

Posted by: Warden at November 07, 2012 01:13 PM (0DlnM)

441 Miss me yet?

Posted by: Bob Dole at November 07, 2012 01:13 PM (Ks4nX)

442 Ace nailed it on abortion. Pro-life absolutist fanatics are sending the GOP into the political wilderness forever.

There should be no more talk of banning abortion without exceptions until the pro-lifers have a solid majority in favor of banning abortion with exceptions, as evidenced by the repeal of Roe v. Wade.

I won't hold my breath. Roe v. Wade will never be repealed. Its a hopelessly lost cause.

Posted by: cool breeze at November 07, 2012 01:13 PM (hx/td)

443 >>>Repubs are still pretending elections are about issues and faggy shit like that. Coming up with arguments about what is for the greater good

>>>Dems know elections are about raw tribalism.

>>>Romney, Not One of Us.

>>>That was Obama's closing message. And it worked.

Yes, but I disagree that Republicans don't know this. I would say our last two presidential candidates *forgot* this, or conceived of themselves as above it. Most people are not animated by policy or facts, but of simple appeals to affiliation in the same Tribe.

One thing though is that it's hard to play that card with Obama because the odds of a serious, serious backfire are so high. He's black, and likes to remind us of this when he's attacked or behind.

And people are generally not racist, and don't like racists. And you'll even have some people like Ann Althouse wringing her hands over a non-racist issue (the ObamaPhone and its most notorious evangelist) because she's afraid that someone, somewhere might be a racist and respond to it due to racism.

That's a real thing. Not the racism, but the henny penny reaction to Possible Hypothetical Racism.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:13 PM (LCRYB)

444
My gut tells me a lot of evangelicals didn't vote for R/R.
Posted by: Chairman LMAO



First cut analysis of the exit polling doesn't show that:

Mr. Romney won the support of nearly 6 in 10 whites. In urban areas, white voters were split over the two candidates, but about 6 in 10 white voters in the suburbs went for Mr. Romney, as did nearly two-thirds in rural areas.

NYT

It appears the evangelical heavy areas and states went Red, while once again the Blue state moderate Republicans stayed home or went all hope and change.



Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at November 07, 2012 01:13 PM (kdS6q)

445 It's possible that Guatemalans and Hondurans who want free shit in Iowa don't give a shit about dead Mexicans in Mexico.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 12:57 PM (/kI1Q)


Mexicans don't give much of a shit about dead Mexicans. Life is very cheap south of the border. Very cheap. Everywhere south of our border. Lots of people just don't understand that, it seems.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at November 07, 2012 01:14 PM (X3lox)

446 Exit polls.



Romney won the white vote by



59%



Won white women by 56%



Won the white youth vote by 51%



Won the Independent vote by a 5% margin.



It looks like the Evangelical vote was not there.

Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 12:58 PM (r2PLg)

-------------
Romney won White Evangelicals 78% to 21% over Obama.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 07, 2012 01:14 PM (P6QsQ)

447 As always, Dennis Prager is telling it like it is, and it nothing to do with Ace's silly list.

Why have we not seen an apology for the pathetic aoshqdd.com performance last night?

Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 01:14 PM (jQm+J)

448 It was not "evangelicals" sitting at home. Look at SC. Romney won it walking away and SC is a heavy evangelical State.


I'll repeat, it was FL, VA, and OH. Those are not "evangelical" States. We lost because those States are turning more blue.


The Republican Party needs to do several things:

1. Major reform of the primary rules
2. Stay away from the MFM debates. Hold your own debates.
3. Learn how to answer reporters from the MFM. Newt was good at that.
4. Learn how to get the message out WITHOUT the MFM. This is one of the areas Romney failed at bad.

Posted by: Vic at November 07, 2012 01:14 PM (YdQQY)

449 well, gee, that doesn't seem like a good deal to me. The lena dunham white american voter may need to give up the white guilt before we move on this issue.
Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:06 PM (QxSug)

Agreed, but I think the Moron asking about getting anal on the first date will have a better chance of success...

Posted by: Nighthawk at November 07, 2012 01:14 PM (n1x7a)

450 #391

I think you're right about that.

I'll wait for the numbers, but I suspect Romney turned out proportionately MORE evangelicals than McCain.

Posted by: Looking closely at November 07, 2012 01:14 PM (PwGfd)

451 Another reason Romney didn't have to improve during the primaries; all he had to do was stay out of the way while the fruitcakes and TrueCon Avengers punched themselves out.

Once the serious, viable contenders like Pawlenty and Perry were knocked out by the Purity Brigade, all Romney had to do was sit back and do nothing.

Posted by: El Kabong at November 07, 2012 01:14 PM (JycCV)

452 Puerto Rico will never become a state.

For that to happen, squishy Republicans would have to exist in the House and Senate.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 07, 2012 01:14 PM (Qxe/p)

453
I'm not convinced. Yes all those things are valid points, but 50% of the people voted for Obama. I'm not sure anything on your list changes thatexcept for Sandy. These idiotsknew the economic situation of the country. They hate the white rich guy and they want free stuff. They dont give a shit about BenGhazi unless he is the newest gangster rapper.
But, since the final polls are acurate, can we now assume that Romney really did have a lead before Sandy? Sandy took all the momentum that Mitt had going and swept it away. Gave O a chance to look good, brought global warming nonsense back as an issue even though it wasnt mentioned in a debate, and it took the focus off BenGhazi.
And really if the hurricane saved Obama, I'm not going to question the good lord as to why in the fuck he did that.

Posted by: California Red at November 07, 2012 01:14 PM (Ho3p+)

454 I'll read this later, ace - too drained to do so now - but I got to the part about Hillbuzz and just need to say thst they are irrelevant. Ignore them.

Thank you, ace, and cobloggers (esp laura, ben , john, dave in texas, Andy, geoff, slublog, and rdbrewer) for your hard work and many laughs as well.

Posted by: Y-not hunting and pecking on the phone at November 07, 2012 01:14 PM (Bfbpz)

455 Stop referring to Hispanics as Brown. According to the census, most identify as White. The GOP needs to stop viewing Hispanics as a racial group and more like a cultural group. Acknowledging the true nature of the Hispanic community would be a good start.
Posted by: Mega at November 07, 2012 01:09 PM (idyso)


Yeah, it's not like the Democrats do that....

*long eyeroll*

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 07, 2012 01:14 PM (HKONC)

456 Obama's message was simple.
Us vs Them.
Are you gonna standup for Us? Or you gonna fight against Them?

Us vs Them works. It's always worked. Humans are tribal. Humans will always be tribal. Humans will always want revenge against the enemy tribe.

We are the out-numbered enemy tribe.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 07, 2012 01:14 PM (ZPrif)

457 We do need to find out why so many Rs stayed home.
Was it a bad turnout effort?
....

Posted by: Spike at November 07, 2012 01:04 PM

Well, were not sure they are even "R"s are we? In the sense of registered voter Rs. They could be R-leaning independents who aren't plugged into politics and got turned off by the very negative tone of the 2012 election. There was talk that Team O knew they would likely go down in another high turnout election, so deliberately made it nasty (Say hi, Joe Soptic!) to turn these right leaning folks off from participating.

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 07, 2012 01:14 PM (UypUQ)

458 @362 LOL! If I had a mouthful of Schaefer's, I'd have spat it all out on the bar! Seriously, tho', where I live (a) you could tell the girl that it's birth control and until L'il Barry get her her pills it'll have to work, and (b) most guys here into anal just bypass the fair sex altogether, I hear.

Posted by: Thorvald at November 07, 2012 01:15 PM (1V6Pv)

459 Thats not up for a vote.

A lot of people here (myself excluded) apparently think it is.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at November 07, 2012 01:15 PM (vbh31)

460 Btw, Akin can suck his own dick, but Mourdock would have won anyway easily if Lugar hadn't shot his wad gunning him down from the back.

As always happens -- the RINO knifes the conservative and gets the conservative to take the blame. Fuck Lugar, fuck Christie.

Posted by: someone (OG) at November 07, 2012 01:15 PM (oDtYC)

461 By the way, I'm glad to have Ace putting his Ten Reasons for the loss out there.

Because that mirrors my own view, that there were multiple factors in play that did not go the way of the GOP. When you hear people talking about ***THE REASON*** for the loss, it's an indication of an oversimplified analysis. There was not one single reason. There was a confluence.

Some of it was beyond our control, like the timing of Sandy's landfall. Some of it was self-inflicted stupidity like Akin and Mourdock. At least we can try to learn from the latter and up our game.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 07, 2012 01:15 PM (ymG7s)

462
"4. Learn how to get the message out WITHOUT the MFM. This is one of the areas Romney failed at bad."

Except for Debate 1.

Posted by: California Red at November 07, 2012 01:15 PM (Ho3p+)

463
If abortion ads worked, then why did women vote for Romney slightly higher than McCain? Why did many demoralized Dems stay home?

Romney lost because he did not have a ground game and did not get out the vote.

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at November 07, 2012 01:15 PM (MNWe/)

464 I apologize if you all have already seen this, but, who votes this way? Wisconsin GOP retakes Senate: http://tinyurl.com/aqnmvxt

Posted by: Chalky at November 07, 2012 01:16 PM (nm4/M)

465 >>>Romney shouldn't have had to run the perfect campaign to beat him.

But he actually did have to do that. Romney was right, Obama had 47% in the bag, no matter what happened, no matter how high the unemployment rate, no matter how expensive gas is.

Any of these mistakes I mention could lose 1-2% and that's the margin.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:16 PM (LCRYB)

466 On number ten (financial collapse) it is worth noting that the President's pick for Vice President voted for all of the "deregulation" upon which the President and the Vice President blamed the financial collapse as "Bush policies." (Graham-Leach-Bliley, Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000). Also a howler, former President Clinton, who blamed Bush for the mess at the DNC, signed a lot of this stuff into law. It was like he didn't trust leaving the burying of the bodies to anyone else.

Ponder that for a bit.

Posted by: Alec Leamas at November 07, 2012 01:16 PM (Nfpnr)

467 Frankly, you are soft peddling the adverse effect of abortion, contraception, and gay marriage. We can blame that on the media all we like, but of the affluent people I know who will admit to voting for Obama and tell you why, it was to preserve those things.

Abortion and Gay Marriage are DEAD as national issues in this country. Period. End of discussion. The only way those two things work in a political campaign going forward is for it to gain votes for people claiming they are in favor of them. There are ZERO votes to be gained by even saying the words abortion and gay marriage.

Posted by: deadrody at November 07, 2012 01:16 PM (N+5Kx)

468 Where is my free shit?

Posted by: Muss the Brentburger at November 07, 2012 01:16 PM (NIZHJ)

469 Explain Akin/Murdock then.

Akin's a shitstain, go ask the Missouri primary voters why they picked him instead of Steeleman.

Mourdock got bludgeoned by a malicious media misrepresentation that you all believe is God's Honest Truth...and the anti-tea-party wing of the GOP shit all over him. Lugar threw a whiny tantrum. He was beating that before the last debate, though.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 01:16 PM (/kI1Q)

470 Given the shit Obama pulled on Catholic institutions
regarding birth control, the religious right SHOULD HAVE turned out in
record numbers.


Posted by: Warden at November 07, 2012 01:13 PM (0DlnM)
--------------------

Catholics as a whole were pretty evenly split, while those that attend Mass regularly went 57% Romney over 42% Obama.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 07, 2012 01:16 PM (P6QsQ)

471 When they complain they have no jobs, everything
costs too much, and they're deep in debt, it'll take all the restraint I
have to keep from saying to them "go get yourself an abortion to cheer
yourself up, honey"



Posted by: kbdabear at November 07, 2012 01:08 PM (wwsoB)

Don't restrain yourself....I'm not going to. They'll get what they asked for and I hope I am there to remind them every chance I get.

Posted by: Tami at November 07, 2012 01:16 PM (X6akg)

472 I must say I have been proven completely wrong. I thought yankees didn't vote from candidates from the south, and that R/R would do really well in the north. Turns out yankees won't vote for Republicans at the presidential level no matter what.

Posted by: Spike at November 07, 2012 01:16 PM (wtnmC)

473 remember, W won in 2004 on values based on exit polls. Who knows.

GOTV and rapebortion. that is all.

Romney made strategy to not be mean to obama to be likeable. fine. I endorse the embrace the evil strategy, but whatever. Maybe Perry woulda done that.

But fuck! are there trucks full of ballots missing? The idea that we lost McCain's votes? So weird.

And I don't buy this older voter bullshit.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:16 PM (QxSug)

474 There is a must-read article up at RCP. I can't link it because I've never been able to figure out the tinyurl manuever. It's called "21 Reasons for Obama's Victory and Romney's Defeat." There are both differences and overlap with your excellent post here, Ace.

One thing in particular that strikes me is the contrast between Reason 5 in your post and Reason 13 in the RCP article. While envy is an important factor in any body politic that drifts towards socialsim, the writers make a good case for Romney's own handling of his wealth and success as being unhelpful at times:

"13. The Thurston Howell III Factor: On more than one occasion, when it came to matters of wealth, Romney found himself with a silver shoe in his mouth.

"Throughout the campaign, he agreed to release only recent tax returns, leading to speculation that he had something to hide. In January, Romney said he received some income from speaking fees, though he again termed it “not very much.” It turns out that the “not very much” he referred to totaled $374, 327.62 -- nearly seven times the average annual household income.

"Later in the primary, in an attempt to appeal to Michigan voters, Romney told a crowd that he drove a Mustang and a Chevy pickup truck before adding, “Ann drives a couple of Cadillacs, actually.” Asked if he was a fan of NASCAR, Romney demurred before adding inexplicably that he was friends with NASCAR owners.

"All of that might have been forgotten had it not been for a single stream-of-consciousness riff at a March fundraiser in Boca Raton, Fla., where he asserted that 47 percent of Americans will support Obama’s re-election no matter what, presumably because they rely on big government while paying no income taxes themselves -- and refusing to “take personal responsibility and care for their lives.”

This was a sentiment not easily explained away as a gaffe, and it played perfectly into the Democrats’ narrative about Romney: that he didn’t care about the middle class."

Nothing will change the result (sadly) or the candidate (more sadly) who couldn't convince anyone that he had any core conviction besides really, really wanting to be President of the United States. But your post and this article might help clarify what needs to be done to win the next time around.

Posted by: Ed Snyder at November 07, 2012 01:17 PM (GDS6f)

475 So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Posted by: RoyalOil at November 07, 2012 01:17 PM (imtbm)

476 Puerto Rico will be a state before the end of 2017. Worst-case scenario is Dems hold off on the bill in Congress to coincide with the 2016 election. Force the Repubs to support or opposed it right before the 2016 election. Dem will campaign hard on supporting it.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 07, 2012 01:17 PM (ZPrif)

477 Rush is right, why are we the racist party when we have Rubio, Cruz, Love, West, Rice, etc? Why don't we get any credit for them?

Why is our message overwhelmed, misunderstood, distorted?

You know that's the thing that gets me the most. When I talk to "liberals" they really have this conception that Republicans are knuckle-dragging misogynist KKK/Nazi/Fundi clones. You explain what conservatism is, and they say "Oh that's what I think. That's why I vote for Cuomo"

Why is it so hard to get the message out?

Is free stuff so attractive? Is sticking it to the rich so attractive?

Don't people know how things are made? How the world works? It seems not.

Posted by: Iblis at November 07, 2012 01:17 PM (9221z)

478 >>>If abortion ads worked, then why did women vote for Romney slightly higher than McCain?

you mean white women?

Look, women generally should have gone big for Romney, and white women should have been higher than 60%.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:17 PM (LCRYB)

479 We've had a "thing" going on St. Louis for a couple of years. I think I've read about it in other cities, too. It's called "the knockout game." Groups of teenage "youths" (African-American, although they _never_ say that in the news stories) accost white men walking alone, and beat them unconscious with bricks. Happens two or three times a year. I expect it to increase. The people who spread this kind of hatred have a very special hell awaiting them.

Posted by: Palandine at November 07, 2012 01:17 PM (g7D8V)

480 sorry to say there is nothing we can do, there is no message that we can sell.the fact is there are no poor people in this country really and we have not suffered enough as a nation to convince us to make the difficult changes we need to make.

Posted by: kj at November 07, 2012 01:17 PM (AW9md)

481 Re: "Going to Perry's right on immigration", Mickey Kaus has a good point on Twitter:

Against crusader for amnesty Obama gets 67% of Latino vote. Against
self-deportation advocate he gets 69%. Difference not that impresive.

Posted by: Jon (not the troll) at November 07, 2012 01:18 PM (2ihLK)

482 You know what liberals like Sandra Fluke deserve? They deserve for hardline Muslims to take over the world and bring social philosophy back to the 7th century, so humans can hit the restart button on social evolution, and maybe in 1300 years things can be a little more practical than they are now.

Posted by: Jheri Carl at November 07, 2012 01:18 PM (//cIL)

483 Agreed, but I think the Moron asking about getting anal on the first date will have a better chance of success...

Especially if your 'first date' is with Sandy Fluke or Wonkette.

Posted by: Mary Poppins' Practically Perfect Piercing at November 07, 2012 01:18 PM (zF6Iw)

484
Anyone from here out in Washington State?

Posted by: Zac at November 07, 2012 01:18 PM (F6KtL)

485 It's not just the takers it's also the unions. I can't tell you how much that rots the work force and their minds.

Posted by: KC at November 07, 2012 01:18 PM (i7KmQ)

486 HEY WHAT AM I CHOPPED LIVER????!

Posted by: Gary Pureheart Johnson at November 07, 2012 01:18 PM (+VMZ0)

487 Obviously my memory is sketchy. But I don't think this is right, and I'd like to see the data on this.

From what data we have, it looks more like independents didn't show up, for either candidate (O lost 10 million voters vs. '08, R only 2 million).

Evangelicals I know were much more concerned about the reality of Obama than what Trey Parker's Broadway musical was claiming about Romney.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 07, 2012 01:18 PM (B/VB5)

488 Most people are not leaders or risk-takers. all of the talk of entrepreneurs did not help.

I wish he'd boiled it down: a job is a business' bet that you can make them money.

Posted by: t-bird at November 07, 2012 01:19 PM (FcR7P)

489 Shouldn't some of you be getting to work? My free shit isn't going to make itself.

Posted by: Muss the Brentburger at November 07, 2012 01:19 PM (NIZHJ)

490
I apologize if you all have already seen this, but, who votes this way?
Wisconsin GOP retakes Senate: http://tinyurl.com/aqnmvxt





Posted by: Chalky at November 07, 2012 01:16 PM (nm4/M)

------------
That would be my schizo state that loves Gov Walker and just elected the most leftist new Senator that has ever been sent to Washington, that anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian, anti-military, pro-Iranian Tammy Baldwin. Who brags that she want a complete government take-over of healthcare and proudly supports OWS.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 07, 2012 01:19 PM (P6QsQ)

491 Laura Ingraham saying we can't just offer more Happy Talk, then proceeding to offer a bunch of Happy Talk.

Turns out the social issues didn't hurt us, and Romney wasn't conservative enough.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:19 PM (LCRYB)

492 PR will never be a state simply because they will never request being a state. Their economy exists solely on tax subsidies stemming from their current status. Statehood is something they bluster about but will never pull the trigger on.

Posted by: someone (OG) at November 07, 2012 01:19 PM (oDtYC)

493 reading Kaus, glad that some non-moonbat, non-"we will bury you" Democrats still exist, however few

Posted by: JDP at November 07, 2012 01:19 PM (60GaT)

494 Watched a Chris Christie news conference local tv ran an hour ago. More problems at the shore because the dunes are gone. Anyway, at the end the press got to ask him about -- it got garbled and I couldn't hear the exact question -- I'm assuming it had to do with the Christie/Obama love fest and photo op, but his answer was pure vitriol. He want on and on about how no one worked harder for Romney, the states he visited, the miles he flew, etc. He droned on and on for a good five minutes.

A nerve. It got touched. He knows now he f*cked up.

I'll never give him an ounce of support. With how I'm gonna get screwed in ObamaComesForMyWallet™ I won't have any money to spend in Jersey either.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 07, 2012 01:19 PM (feFL6)

495 Abortion - that guy is gonna tax you. Spending - that guy is gonna tax
you. Military - that guy is gonna tax you. Marriage - that guy is gonna
tax you. Inflation - that guy is gonna tax you. Foot sores - that guy is
gonna tax you, twice, once for each foot.


And they say, "Lol! I don't pay no taxes! And I ain't takin' no job, I'll lose my benfits!"

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 01:19 PM (/kI1Q)

496 Cleanup in aisle 490, please.

Posted by: Palandine at November 07, 2012 01:19 PM (g7D8V)

Posted by: ToursLepantoVienna at November 07, 2012 01:19 PM (F9l4e)

498 Yes please ignore Hillbuzz. There actions during 2008 felt really sleazy to me. Dick Morris too. In 2008 I was email from asking to money to fund some bullshit stuff.

Posted by: Long Island at November 07, 2012 01:20 PM (EsJl1)

499 #490... shut up...

Posted by: Hello, it's me Donna not greg/gerg at November 07, 2012 01:20 PM (9+ccr)

500 By the way, Democrats cheer that every year more old whites die off, making the electorate more Democrat.

Read them. They aren't shy about cheering for the deaths of their racial enemies.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 07, 2012 01:20 PM (ZPrif)

501 "We have to figure out why fewer republicans voted this time.They died. The GOP is too geared towards older voters. Their ranks are not being replenished."

Posted by: Mega at November 07, 2012 01:12 PM (idyso)

Actually, the baby boomer segment should be getting proportionately larger and benefit the GOP.

Posted by: jwest at November 07, 2012 01:20 PM (ZDsRL)

502
Especially #10. He didn't call the lying ass.ole a lying ass.ole. He let the Lyin kING define himself to the useless idiots that only watch entertainment shows and play with each other while waiting for their next handout for doing nothing of value.
Now because of this, the useless air circulators and professional baby makers will go from 47 to 55% in a second term and the country will of necessity crash before the Repunk cowards get another chance at power.
Our Republic is over unless the five most conservative supremes hang on for at least four more. No way to put a smiley face on this screw up.
For two cycles we have tried a moderate nice guy and gotten our asses handed to us, maybe one day we could try a more conservative fighter ala Newt who calls a presstitute a presstitute and a liar a liar.

Posted by: concealedkerry or Submitt at November 07, 2012 01:20 PM (vXqv3)

503 We've had a "thing" going on St. Louis for a couple
of years. I think I've read about it in other cities, too. It's called
"the knockout game." Groups of teenage "youths" (African-American,
although they _never_ say that in the news stories) accost white men
walking alone, and beat them unconscious with bricks. Happens two or
three times a year. I expect it to increase. The people who spread this
kind of hatred have a very special hell awaiting them.


Posted by: Palandine at November 07, 2012 01:17 PM (g7D8V)


It's been happening in Chicago for years done by "youths' who have no descriptions whatsoever

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 07, 2012 01:20 PM (1Jaio)

504 McCain blew #10 the last time. "Policies that got us into this mess in the first place" is a line Obama used the royal FUCK out of, with virtually NO rebuttal. It pissed me off constantly. The GSE's Fanny/Freddie et al should have been hung around Obama's neck. He was one of the pioneers of hitting banks to give loans to people who could pay them. The Daniel Fucking Boone of mortgage fuckupitude.

Fuck it all, man. The Republican party is a goddam limp dick party right now. It's shameful that this punk got another term. Just shameful.

Posted by: Pipe Holder at November 07, 2012 01:20 PM (VTeUD)

505 Trying hard to not feed trolls.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 75% more DOOM! at November 07, 2012 01:20 PM (xAtAj)

506 Today on "Let's Make A Deal"..
Behind curtain number one is a life where you are accountable for your decisions. Prosperity is possible, but not guaranteed. And you will be judged by the content of your character.
Behind curtain number two is a life where you will never achieve your full potential, but your basic needs for food, clothing and shelter will be met. Your life will have little risk, but also little reward. And.....you get a free Bamaphone!

When Snookie and Honey Boo Boo are considered media stars, ask yourself how the average person is gonna choose.

Spin it all you want, but we as a nation have come to prefer free stuff to liberty.
Yeah us!

Posted by: Village Idiot's Apprentice at November 07, 2012 01:20 PM (BPyqV)

507 379 Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:07 PM (LCRYB) _________ That's it. Sort of reminds me when Clinton pushed childcare - something that actually affects people's lives. It seems piddling, but people like it. Why do I care bout business owners. I don't because I can't imagine ever being one, or don't want to try.

Posted by: Baldy at November 07, 2012 01:20 PM (opS9C)

508 Jon,

Hmmmm. Good data. Thanks.

One thing, though, is that I believe more Hispanics voted, so they may have been more motivated to vote.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:21 PM (LCRYB)

509 11: A sea change of American culture.

Posted by: Derpina at November 07, 2012 01:21 PM (yFJUJ)

510 You have some interesting points Ace, but that's nit-picking the details. Romney ultimately lost because too many Americans wanted Big Daddy Government to take care of them, instead of working hard to take care of themselves. Remember the debates? Romney and Ryan sounded like the adults and leaders giving difficult but acceptable solutions, with a long-term payoff. Obummer (once he got over the shock of Actual Ideas) said "free abortions and welfare and health care for everyone!" and Biden just openly laughed the idea of recovery to scorn.

And there you have it. We Republicans ran a serious ticket, betting that Americans would remember what made this Republic great, and endorse it over the failed policies of Socialists in democrats' clothing. We lost, since the margin wasn't enough to prevent voter fraud which will never be exposed or reported on now, since Romney is a gentleman who doesn't want to put the nation through the electoral circus that Gore's crowd insisted on in 2000. And now the country is committed to going off the cliff. Well, fine. It can go off the cliff, it's what the electorate wanted. Nothing we can do except wait for them to hit bottom, and then pick up the pieces.

Posted by: exdem13 at November 07, 2012 01:21 PM (1GunI)

511 that anti-Israel, pro-Palestinian, anti-military, pro-Iranian Tammy Baldwin

Has anyone told Ahmadinejad she's a homosexual?

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 01:21 PM (/kI1Q)

512 What percentage of the moderate Republican vote did Romney receive?

Posted by: 80sBaby at November 07, 2012 01:21 PM (YjDyJ)

513 I would like to add an interesting anecdote: My retired cousin, a Rocky Mountain living Libertarian, voted for the Communist this time because he doesn't believe me when I tell him Barry really is a Communist and because he thinks "America needs free healthcare like all the other civilized countries". This is a guy who has voted GOP or Libertarian for decades until now but says everything is still "Bush's fault".

I don't even understand the electorate anymore and I honestly believe we are done. There is no going back now.

Posted by: Daybrother at November 07, 2012 01:21 PM (+paCV)

514 No one seems to be able to answer this-- WHO didn't vote?

All heard about was record GOTV, and record turnout.

And we were actually down 4 million from 08?

I'm assuming that these totals match total ballots cast, because making 4 million ballots disappear via fraud seems too much if a stretch.

So, who the fuck didn't show up? And why?

Posted by: Hopeless at November 07, 2012 01:21 PM (XrMeG)

515 We lost this on turnout. Absolutely nothing to do with social conservatism. Abortion, done the right way is net positive for the GOP. Stop with the "fuck the socons" nonsense. Obama turned out his base. Mitt Romney didn't.

Posted by: Big T Party at November 07, 2012 01:21 PM (oDtMj)

516 Posted on Drudge Harry Reid wants to cut the republicans out even more. The dems are in full take over mode right now. Scary times ahead and there isn't anything anybody can do about it.

Posted by: Wi Lurker at November 07, 2012 01:21 PM (9pqWr)

517
My young cow-orkers are giddy this morning...free birth control! Free abortion! Gay marriage! Their unemployed friends are gonna stay that way, but they can still fuck indiscriminantly and with abandon since Romney won't be taking sex away, and the government will fund any consequence.
Yeah see this is what's got me worried. We're decending into Hedonism as a culture. Science has provided a solution to most of the ills that excess creates, so there's no love of virtue anymore, even just for virtue's sake.
Without an ordering principle, we're boned. The end is near.
Oh and HeatherRadish, many of us MO voters (who lived in District 2 even) didn't expect the multi-term congressman to blow it that badly. Steelman is a POS, she may look good on paper, but she'll suck Union cock at the first sign of politcal support for herself. Can't speak to Brunner, probably should of voted for him, he was just a bit of an unknown.

Posted by: tsrblke at November 07, 2012 01:21 PM (GaqMa)

518 Here's another possible reason for a turnout failure:

Overconfidence. Simple arrogant overconfidence.

A frequently expressed sentiment here was, "Relax. Chill. We got this."

I said, "Eminently loseable election. Razor close nailbiter at best. Don't let up."

How many people who were sick of Barky figured that "we got this" and that it was just impossible for him to be re-elected given his crummy record, and couldn't be arsed to go vote?

Not enough to make an overall difference, I don't think. But certainly there must have been some. Time for many on the right to get this tattooed on the inside of their eyelids in fluorescent ink: RELAX AFTER THE DAMN ELECTION IS OVER.


Posted by: torquewrench at November 07, 2012 01:22 PM (ymG7s)

519 And people are generally not racist, and don't like racists. And you'll even have some people like Ann Althouse wringing her hands over a non-racist issue (the ObamaPhone and its most notorious evangelist) because she's afraid that someone, somewhere might be a racist and respond to it due to racism.

That's a real thing. Not the racism, but the henny penny reaction to Possible Hypothetical Racism.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:13 PM (LCRYB)

__________________


....which works extra-ordinarily well in --

Wisconsin.

One thing about this election---the Republican statisticians should really honor the history--decades trend lines of a state.

There is this weird phenomena with Liberals--they will vote Republicans for--themselves--see Rudy Giuliani--but-

they will send Liberals to the federal seats to nag the hell out of the rest of us.

Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 01:22 PM (r2PLg)

520 Dick Morris was always a worthless hack.
I dreaded this election when Morris started predicting an easy victory. Because I know he's just milking us. He'll tell us whatever we want to hear. Same with the HillBuzz fucks. They are just trying to make a buck. They don't believe a word they are saying. If people like Morris and HillBuzz thought they could make more money saying the opposite, they would.

Soulless scavengers.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 07, 2012 01:22 PM (ZPrif)

521 244 Since we held the House, could they PLEASE elect Paul Ryan or Eric
Cantor as Speaker and get rid of Cryin' Boehner? Especially since Fake
Tan has promised to work with TFG which will set Republicans up to take
the blame for the failures
Posted by: kbdabear


Here's the problem; the US electorate just asked to be fucked on the first date. Anally.

Why would you jump in there and insist that they don't want that to happen?

The only way we ever get out of this mess is give them the full measure of their order.

The GOP should abstain every vote for the next 4 years.

Posted by: burned cut-loop at November 07, 2012 01:22 PM (jo069)

522 "You all need to understand in no uncertain terms, [they] despise you, they think little of you. They believe you brutish and violent, bull headed, and fundamentally stupid. They see you as big children that must be controlled and disciplined in order make you useful to them. And if you are not useful to them, if you do not provide those things that they wish from you, actually, more correct to say, those things they need from you, then you will not be a part of their lives.

And they are earnest and driven in structuring society and the law in such a manner that you are no longer needed..."

http://tinyurl.com/aosvmdd

Posted by: Dr. Varno at November 07, 2012 01:22 PM (YgF3N)

523 "But he actually did have to do that."

Well yes, that's why I suggest it's the end of the republic. With that kind of playing field every time out, it's lights out for America.

Question is whether 2016 will be different.

Posted by: someone (OG) at November 07, 2012 01:22 PM (oDtYC)

524 I like your definition of shitstain applies to someone who was -- intentionally or not -- honest.

I never said anything about "honest" you lying sack of smegma.

Damn shame your mother chose wrong.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at November 07, 2012 01:22 PM (/kI1Q)

525 Great post Ace.

Posted by: GrindingMetal at November 07, 2012 01:22 PM (Gim9y)

526 @487 Can't trust this, as I was getting into my cups, but I'm pretty sure I heard on Fox last night that there are now more unmarried women than married women by relevant age group in the U.S. of A. for the first time ever. The female vote breaks on single vs. married, mainly.
You want to talk demographics, let's talk fecundity. The fecund female votes R, the barren vote D. Period.

Posted by: Thorvald at November 07, 2012 01:22 PM (1V6Pv)

527 This is why I will never donate to politics.

They take your money and fuck you with it.

Straight up. What a waste of money THAT campaign was. SOOOOOOOOO much ammunition against this blithering idiot and his sidekick over the last 4 years and NONE OF IT WAS USED.

Fuck you, Republican party. You're TOO STUPID for my time.

Has Boehner cried yet?

Posted by: © Sponge at November 07, 2012 01:22 PM (UK9cE)

528 Obama criticized Romeny personally, and Romeny's negative ads were on the failed policy. the "he's a nice guy, but i didn't work out" could not compete with the "how dare they!" abortion ads. at least the ones that i saw in Northern Va.

Posted by: DCPensFan at November 07, 2012 01:22 PM (ma/2m)

529 503 PR will never be a state simply because they will never request being a state.
______
We'll convince them that they want to be a state.

Posted by: Community Organizers for PR Statehood at November 07, 2012 01:22 PM (NWLVJ)

530 "Rubio will not draw any Latinos that wouldn't have been Conservative to start with. Susan Martinez might draw a few women, and maybe a tad more Latinos because she's Mexican, but a Cuban ain't moving the Hispanic vote to the Right."
Very true, hispanics have their own tribal wars.

Posted by: Auntie Doodles at November 07, 2012 01:23 PM (JcN7j)

531 Posted by: Don't blame me, it was all the other stuff at November 07, 2012 01:18 PM (PpnKd)



ace, can you do something about this? TB or something.....

Posted by: Tami at November 07, 2012 01:23 PM (X6akg)

532 You all kept me aloft for 4 years, we had some fun times.

But, I can't take this. I just can't.

Maybe I will come back one day.

But right now, I'm just fighting back the tears.

Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way. The time is gone, the song is over, Thought I'd something more to say.

Posted by: RoyalOil at November 07, 2012 01:23 PM (imtbm)

533 YO! It's time to give the social conservatives and the evangelicals their walking papers. Word up! 'Dem fools need ta' start steppin' to tha' front do' OR they can sit back and accept the fact that people do not want "gubment" to tell them how to live. I'm all for conservative principles but if you need "gubment" to instill a moral code via legislation then you have two problems: (1) you do not believe your ideas will survive in the market and (2) you got mad issues with people making personal choices on how to live their lives.

Posted by: Al From Bay Shore at November 07, 2012 01:23 PM (H7qBA)

534
When 51% of the country are net tax receivers instead of net tax payers, it then becomes an election of social issues and pandering.

The good news/bad news is that is going to end and those poor motherf'ers are about to find out what hit them.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at November 07, 2012 01:23 PM (PHb2k)

535 524 What percentage of the moderate Republican vote did Romney receive?
Posted by: 80sBaby at November 07, 2012 01:21 PM (YjDyJ)

_____________

He did better with the Republicans that did show up--than McCain. IIRC

Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 01:23 PM (r2PLg)

536 There are a lot of people who aren't Winners. I don't know what to do
about this because the way to attract someone who's not making his own
way in life is to offer some Government Assistance, which is precisely
the wrong thing.



Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:07 PM

You could ask them "has a loser ever given you a job", but I doubt that would sink in

Posted by: kbdabear at November 07, 2012 01:23 PM (wwsoB)

537 Why not make Ryan Speaker?

He's one of the few clean and articulate white republicans.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:23 PM (QxSug)

538 Posted by: exdem13 at November 07, 2012 01:21 PM (1GunI)

----------------



Good post.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 07, 2012 01:23 PM (P6QsQ)

539 "420 288
The reason Romney lost is because America "Has more takers then
producers now". The losers of this country now want their free stuff.
But, the free stuff cannot go on forever and when it runs out what do
the bottem feeders do?

***

Riot.
Posted by: Obla di at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (Xv7f/)"

And then what?
I mean, like, who's gonna win that fight?

Posted by: BuddyPC at November 07, 2012 01:23 PM (jfUIE)

540 The re-election of Obama just goes to show you that America is rapidly becoming a European socialist state. People in this day and age would rather be "In the wagon, than having to pull the wagon".

Posted by: Chris at November 07, 2012 01:24 PM (KvU/Q)

541 I kinda hope that the House of Reps gives Obama everything he wants and then shoves it up his ass when the shit hits the fan.

Posted by: Jaimo at November 07, 2012 01:24 PM (9U1OG)

542
Know what really worries me?
The Supreme Court.

Posted by: YIKES! at November 07, 2012 01:24 PM (1PE/J)

543 >>>Abortion, done the right way is net positive for the GOP.

It's not a net positive, it's a net neutral -- done the right way. And I've said so.

But Rape Abortion? This is not "done the right way." This is embracing the truly, toe-curlingly horrifying position.

THIS -- not abortion generally -- is the killer, and the loser.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:24 PM (LCRYB)

544 373 Welcome to the 21st century.

Which will look increasingly like the 17th.
Posted by: toby928© for TB at November 07, 2012 01:07 PM (QupBk)



With cellphones!

Yayyyy!!!!

Cellphones. Stick candy.

Yayyyyy!

What do you mean, pay?

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 07, 2012 01:25 PM (HKONC)

545 you mean white women?

Look, women generally should have gone big for Romney, and white women should have been higher than 60%.Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:17 PM (LCRYB)No, I mean women. Women backed Romney 2 points higher than McCain. There were no rape ads against McCain. Therefore, rape ads made no difference.

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at November 07, 2012 01:25 PM (MNWe/)

546 Ace, exactly right. My one addition would be thatsocial issues are
killing us with the youths. I dont think we on the right understand how
badly we are getting beaten on gay marraige. Hollywood injects it into
the narrative of every show to portray conservatives as haters, and
thekids are the major consumers. This is a huge voting block who feel
they are fighting evil and that is a huge reason for the high youth turn
out. Conservatives have allowed themselves to be painted as the bad
guys by an extremely small sect of gay Hollywood writers. This issue is
not worth it. We have to let this go. Who gives a shit anyway?


The problem is that no one is willing to make the case for social conservatism, which is that it is a necessary part of liberty in general. A hedonistic society will happily abandon their liberty to anyone who will promise to keep them fat and happy. Traditions, rituals, and values are a way for society to counteract the more destructive elements of human nature.

What we need to do is start developing conservative alternatives to the entertainment media. With $10,000 you can get the equipment to produce a web series and distribute it. We need to get conservatives in Hollywood and conservatives with the money to support such efforts. For every modern family magically perfect gay couple, we need to counter it by showing the hedonism and infidelity that is more realistic of the gay community. For every SITC slut that gets celebrated, we need to show that the end result is loneliness and disease.

Posted by: Alex at November 07, 2012 01:25 PM (HwgHt)

547 "@487 Can't trust this, as I was getting into my cups, but I'm pretty sure I heard on Fox last night that there are now more unmarried women than married women by relevant age group in the U.S. of A. for the first time ever. The female vote breaks on single vs. married, mainly. You want to talk demographics, let's talk fecundity. The fecund female votes R, the barren vote D. Period."
Partly true - 40% of childen are born to single mothers. Think they vote R?

Posted by: Auntie Doodles at November 07, 2012 01:25 PM (JcN7j)

548 I can buy all of these except the Sandy nonsense.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 07, 2012 01:25 PM (8JpQH)

549 well, ace takes his customary 4 screen screed to get it wrong. All that is trivia and bullshit. Here's what beat mitt, and what will keep the GOP from winning another election until they figure it out or nominate a hispanic: demographics. There are now more minorities and poor whites (and a few affluent whites) than the number of other whites who will vote for a Republican. period. It was a base election, and contra 2004, their base is bigger and they have the means to get them out. This wasn't even close. Obama even won some 'red states'. Romney should have picked Rubio, it might have mitigated it, but I doubt it.

Posted by: docweasel at November 07, 2012 01:25 PM (h0KX8)

550 I have been saying the same thing. I still am not sure Romney could have won it, but there is a disconnect somewhere.

Posted by: Tammy al-Thor at November 07, 2012 12:54 P


IMO -- and I've said this before during the campaign and was slammed for it -- we have a major problem in that we get all reticent, procedural and Poppin' Fresh-like every time we see the Democrats pulling some of the questionable/illegal shit.

If some precinct worker wore a Romney baseball cap, the Democrats would have been spreadin' the news far and wide. Ditto for a giant picture of Teh Mutt on the wall of a voting place.

If they suspected we were tampering with ballots and/or counts, they would be screaming to Brian Williams and his worthless cohorts to put it on teevee NOW!!11!! They wouldn't wait until the Proper Authorities deliberated and issued toothless "rulings."

If someone had Herman Cained Choom Boy and accused him of gettin' some from an employee, the charges of RAAAACISM!!11!! and worse would have been instant.

In short, the Republicans have no balls. Because they are Nice Guys, they automatically assume the Democrats are Nice Guys too. Because they can't believe the liberals would cheat (or "bring a gun to a knife fight," if you wish) they dismiss any indications of abhorrent behavior.

It will take the transformation of certain conservative leaders into street-fighters to ever correct this. Otherwrise, the fraud, lies and anti-American behavior will continue unabated.

Posted by: MrScribbler, banned at TepidAir at November 07, 2012 01:25 PM (yKUrR)

551 Political correctness strikes again. McCain and his advisers, and now Romney and his, were terrified the white men would be racist if they attacked Zero in any meaningful way.

And Zero's campaign people, in 2008 and now, knew this and used it.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at November 07, 2012 01:25 PM (BDU/a)

552 Just read that the FEMA relief center is shutting down due to another storm coming to NY NJ.
Fat boy probably believes that the SCOAMF actually gives a shit and wasn't using him as a campaign tool. LOL!!
Whatis the chance that the SCOAMF visits NY or NJ now bitchezzz.

Posted by: Cheri at November 07, 2012 01:25 PM (G+Wff)

553 Puerto Rico voted for statehood yesterday, for those not paying attention. Puerto Rico will be a state within 5 years.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 07, 2012 01:25 PM (ZPrif)

554 418
Serious question: What would Breitbart do?

Posted by: Dante at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (NWLVJ)


What can men do in the face of such evil?
http://tinyurl.com/a2nwkh5

Posted by: BCochran1981 at November 07, 2012 01:25 PM (da5Wo)

555 Another reason Romney didn't have to improve during the primaries; all he had to do was stay out of the way while the fruitcakes and TrueCon Avengers punched themselves out.

Once the serious, viable contenders like Pawlenty and Perry were knocked out by the Purity Brigade, all Romney had to do was sit back and do nothing.


I don't think there were any other viable contenders. Perry shot himself in the foot multiple times, Pawlenty killed himself in the debate when he refused to confront Romney, and all the rest were mere pretenders. Were there any other viable options out there? I don't know, but what I do know is that the money and influence lined up for Romney four years ago.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at November 07, 2012 01:26 PM (JxMoP)

556 "He did better with the Republicans that did show up--than McCain. IIRC"

-- The big problem, then, seems in getting them to show up.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 01:26 PM (moRRg)

557 We really should make the Jolly Roger our national flag. Free shit is our prime directive.

Posted by: Muss the Brentburger at November 07, 2012 01:26 PM (NIZHJ)

558 Turns out the social issues didn't hurt us, and Romney wasn't conservative enough.
Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:19 PM (LCRYB)


What social issues, ace? All Repubs did this year was running away from a debate about social issues. If you go into a fight with a defeatist attitude, its not exactly a miracle when you lose.

Posted by: Elize Nayden at November 07, 2012 01:26 PM (Rn7r2)

559 YO! It's time to give the social conservatives and the evangelicals their walking papers.

--------------


Never one to go where I am not wanted.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 07, 2012 01:26 PM (P6QsQ)

560 "Those who rob Peter to pay Paul can always count on the support of Paul" - George Bernard Shaw

Posted by: kbdabear at November 07, 2012 01:26 PM (wwsoB)

561 Has America ever re-elected a socialist with communists in his administration, someone who confiscated wealth, ignored the Constitution, did what he damn well pleased, and was loved for that by the media. One who campaigned on Hope and Change yet while incurring massive debt did little to improve the economy?

Yes, his name was Franklin Delano Roosevelt

Posted by: kbdabear at November 07, 2012 01:26 PM (wwsoB)

562 No one seems to be able to answer this-- WHO didn't vote?

A comparison of total voters vs the presidential vote count would be interesting. I don't know what percentage of voters are Catholic, but I've heard they got 'told' that they couldn't vote for a candidate who supports abortion -- so they skipped the first column on the ballot but voted down-ticket.

It's an interesting theory. Seems a little tin-foilish but straws, that's all I got right now.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 07, 2012 01:26 PM (feFL6)

563
There are a lot of people who aren't Winners. I don't know what to do

about this because the way to attract someone who's not making his own

way in life is to offer some Government Assistance, which is precisely

the wrong thing.





Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:07 PM

You could ask them "has a loser ever given you a job", but I doubt that would sink in



Posted by: kbdabear at November 07, 2012 01:23 PM (wwsoB)


I don't think that logic and reason appeals to many people any more. It's becoming more like Idiocracy.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at November 07, 2012 01:27 PM (1Jaio)

564 LOOK OVER HERE AT MY 1MILLION PLUS VOTES!!!

Posted by: Gary Pureheart Johnson at November 07, 2012 01:27 PM (+VMZ0)

565 502
Laura Ingraham saying we can't just offer more Happy Talk, then proceeding to offer a bunch of Happy Talk.



Turns out the social issues didn't hurt us, and Romney wasn't conservative enough.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:19 PM (LCRYB)
I think the social issues hurt us because we're too afraid to talk frankly about them. Study after study has shown that the path to personal success, and a health society starts with a two parent "traditional" family (and no having 2 dads or 2 moms doesn't help). But that requires that people engage in self-discipline, and that's never a popular message. I think the baby-boomers really fucked us over when they promoted the responsibility-free society we "enjoy" today.

Posted by: Iblis at November 07, 2012 01:27 PM (9221z)

566
Hey Ace, thanks for the very well-reasoned, insightful post about why Romney lost.

Now how about an equally well-reasoned, insightful post about why you, all but one ofthe cob-loggers, and almost all conservative talking headswere totally fucking WRONG about how well things were going? I mean, if you're wise enough to see all these problems with Romney (albeit in hindsight), where was all that wisdom, say, a day and a half ago?
We've we been fed months of bullshit about weighting and crosstabs and oversampling and "preference cascade" and anecdatal counts of fucking YARD SIGNS.
Either we're in a cocoony echo chamber and you didn't know how far into Spinland you'd gotten... or, perhaps more likely,you were just flat-out LYING. Lyingto keep up morale, avoid dispiriting the troops, avoid being called an eeyore RINO.... still lying, dude.

Posted by: d at November 07, 2012 01:27 PM (n0Yvg)

567 546 524 What percentage of the moderate Republican vote did Romney receive?
Posted by: 80sBaby at November 07, 2012 01:21 PM (YjDyJ)

___________

Hell, Romney won Independents by 5%

Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 01:27 PM (r2PLg)

568 As an aside note...

The GOP really needs to get off this new tic of giving deference to Clinton and his "boom times". I don't see dems returning the favor about the Reagan Era.

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 07, 2012 01:27 PM (UypUQ)

569 Does he mean rape-rape or rape-rape-rape?

Posted by: Muss the Brentburger at November 07, 2012 01:27 PM (NIZHJ)

570 2 Other things

Fuck John Roberts.

Fuck Gary Johnson.

Posted by: Big T Party at November 07, 2012 01:27 PM (oDtMj)

571 #262 Ace,


I'm just looking at the numbers in Ohio and putting 2 and 2 together. Why would Romney/Ryan get fewer votes than McCain/Palin in a state like Ohio, with the RNC throwing the kitchen sink in there this time? McCain ran a HORRIBLE campaign, didn't do jack shit in Ohio. But a whole buttload of people still voted for him and didn't vote for Romney yesterday.


Didn't Rick Santorum make a very strong run at Romney in the Ohio primary, even though everyone knew it was the end game and Romney was going to be the eventual nominee? Who voted for Santorum?


Didn't Democrats totally freak out in 2004 when they lost Ohio? Who showed up that they didn't model?


I think there is a fairly large group of PEOPLE, who do not usually vote at all, who showed up to vote in Ohio in 2004 because of the gay marriage referendum. The same people voted for Sarah Palin in 2008. They voted for Rick Santorum in the primary this year. And they stayed home yesterday because Romney/Ryan gave them nothing to vote for.


These may or may not be "evangelicals" as we usually describe them. I don't think they are Mormon-haters. I think they are people who are seriously, deeply, into God and faith and Biblical truth, and they do not see government as relevant to their lives at all. They do not care about jobs or the economy at large. They will ONLY show up to vote for someone who they see as sincere and true to their beliefs.


Ask yourself what Sarah Palin and Rick Santorum have in common: Blue-collar, working class families. Big families. And, MOST importantly, both have a mentally disabled child that they refused to abort. This is called "walking the walk" to these people. Nobody else will earn their votes.


We must figure out who these people are, and decide as a Party whether we can do without their votes or keep looking for a Rick Santorum or Sarah Palin who will get them to vote.

Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 01:27 PM (qe2/V)

572
The takers know that they will always be taken care of. There is no fear anymore that they need to provide for themselves. They will not be left in the gutter hungry in the USA. The is no fiscal cliff in their minds.

Posted by: KC at November 07, 2012 01:28 PM (i7KmQ)

573 McCain and his advisers, and now Romney and his, were terrified the white men would be racist if they attacked Zero in any meaningful way.

As Ace said, R-Money simply needed to run the kind of attack ads against Obama that he did on Perry et al. It was a running joke in these very comments late in the primaries that if Romney attacked Obama as effectively as he attacked Rick Perry he'd win. He didn't.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 07, 2012 01:28 PM (B/VB5)

574
if you are on government assistance you should not be allowed to vote.

Posted by: kj at November 07, 2012 01:28 PM (AW9md)

575 That would be my schizo state that loves Gov Walker and just elected the
most leftist new Senator that has ever been sent to Washington

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land

I beg to differ.

Posted by: Elizabeth Warren at November 07, 2012 01:28 PM (hx/td)

576
Ace, will you please get your formatting fixed.

Women voted Romney 2 points higher than McCain. McCain did not have rape ads tied around his neck. The Democrat base certainly didn't turn out in heavier numbers because of the rape ads. Do you think rape ads caused low Republican turnout?

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at November 07, 2012 01:28 PM (MNWe/)

577 The takers don't want jobs. Jobs interfere with porn, ESPN, and XBox.
They want money. They want EBT cards. They want free rent. Free electricity. Free heat. Free food.

Jobs suck. Work sucks. Free money is better.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 07, 2012 01:28 PM (ZPrif)

578 11. Romney was the shiniest turd in a pile of shiny turds. The Republican establishment - in its completely misguided policy of offering up less-than-republican candidates (Bush, McCain, Romney) has destroyed its credibility as an alternative to the Left.

There was no defined and outlined plan to get us out of Obama's mess. No clearly defined pathway such as Newt's "Contract with America" that anyone could understand and get behind.

There was - in fact - no clearly defined candidate. Romney changed his positions to accommodate whatever political wind was blowing, and was therefore offered up as the guy we had to elect in order to get rid of the other guy. That kind of candidacy NEVER works! Reagan didn't run on a policy of getting rid of Carter; he had his own clearly defined ideas; "I'm the better candidate." Most of Mitt's campaign was based on "vote for me because that guy sucks."

At this point, I'm sure that names would be demanded, and I have one or two, but it doesn't matter. No Conservative/Republican candidate will ever win again. The days of a Conservative in the White House are over.

Posted by: Sgt. York at November 07, 2012 01:28 PM (fGatA)

579 570 2 Other things

Fuck John Roberts.

Fuck Gary Johnson.

Fuck Chris Christie.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:28 PM (QxSug)

580 It's not a net positive, it's a net neutral -- done the right way. And I've said so.

But Rape Abortion? This is not "done the right way." This is embracing the truly, toe-curlingly horrifying position.

THIS -- not abortion generally -- is the killer, and the loser.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:24 PM (LCRYB)
The Catch 22 of course is that they'll never be able to escape it. As long as there are actual pro-life politicians left (and I mean real ones not the Joe Biden "my personal position" type) the media will hammer the question home. I'm not sure we need to abandon our position, just get better at defending it. Point out that it's unlikely to become law, but then focus the question on care for Rape victims in general, early reporting and fast treatment/counseling. (We do need to purge the people so over the top that they think everything given after a rape including a glass of water is tantamount to an abortion. Science, how does it work?)

Posted by: tsrblke at November 07, 2012 01:29 PM (GaqMa)

581 559 I can buy all of these except the Sandy nonsense.
Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 07, 2012 01:25 PM (8JpQH)


No, there are retards who are swayed by that bullshit.

Oooo... look TFG is so...... anti-Sandy!

Yaayyyy!

ooooo .......bomber jackets. *swoon*

Not 2%, though.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 07, 2012 01:29 PM (HKONC)

582 "Now how about an equally well-reasoned, insightful post about why you,
all but one ofthe cob-loggers, and almost all conservative talking
headswere totally fucking WRONG about how well things were going?"

-- This is an easy answer, even I can do.

Everyone knew Obama was losing a host of votes this round. He did.

No one knew the bubbling enthusiasm people were expressing for Romney would not translate to votes. Romney lost because his base didn't show up and Obama's did. That's why everyone in the conservative sphere was so far off; they accounted for a depressed D- turnout, but never thought the same would happen to Republicans (a thing I'm guilty of.) I didn't think people would follow through on threats to not vote Romney or to go for Johnson. I was wrong.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 01:29 PM (moRRg)

583 Yo! I'm not trying to diss the social conservatives or the evangelicals. I'm feelin' you cats BUT how you gon' have limited "gubment" when it's all up in yo' bizness? It's time to choose. Personally, I think Judeo-Christian values will prevail in the market because they work BUT don't be forcin' that on folks via legislative decree. Just sayin'.

Posted by: Al From Bay Shore at November 07, 2012 01:30 PM (H7qBA)

584 My only hope right now is that reality (in the form of a crashing economy) slams down on Barry and friends.

Posted by: Iblis at November 07, 2012 01:30 PM (9221z)

585 >>>566 I don't think there were any other viable contenders. Perry shot himself in the foot multiple times, Pawlenty killed himself in the debate when he refused to confront Romney, and all the rest were mere pretenders. Were there any other viable options out there? I don't know, but what I do know is that the money and influence lined up for Romney four years ago.

'Viable' in the sense that they had actual records and looked electable. Bachmann? Cain? Gingrich? Santorum? Paul? Sorry, no. Fruitcakes, spotlight seekers, single issue candidates, etc.

Once the contenders were taken out, we switched from one TrueCon hero to the next, once a month, until only Romney was left standing. He didn't have to do a thing.

Posted by: El Kabong at November 07, 2012 01:30 PM (JycCV)

586 The problem with the electorate is that we make it easier to vote every year and we cheer the neutral "Vote" message.

People who need someone else to find them a way to get to the polls are unlikely to have an informed oppinion on anything.


Posted by: TYPO DYNMOFO at November 07, 2012 01:30 PM (+VMZ0)

587 they spent a ton of $ in swing states but those ads were ineffective, obviously.

I guess the left found their wedge issue, "rapebortion"

we had no wedge this time.

In 2004, W pushed GWOT and IDK whatelse but people knew the stakes.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:30 PM (QxSug)

588 Hey Ace, thanks for the very well-reasoned, insightful post about why Romney lost.

Now how about an equally well-reasoned, insightful post about why you, all but one ofthe cob-loggers, and almost all conservative talking headswere totally fucking WRONG about how well things were going? I mean, if you're wise enough to see all these problems with Romney (albeit in hindsight), where was all that wisdom, say, a day and a half ago?
We've we been fed months of bullshit about weighting and crosstabs and oversampling and "preference cascade" and anecdatal counts of fucking YARD SIGNS.
Either we're in a cocoony echo chamber and you didn't know how far into Spinland you'd gotten... or, perhaps more likely,you were just flat-out LYING. Lyingto keep up morale, avoid dispiriting the troops, avoid being called an eeyore RINO.... still lying, dude.

-----
Dude actively chooses to visit a conservative site and is surprised to find that the posters are, indeed, conservative.

Posted by: Rich at November 07, 2012 01:30 PM (arczc)

589 >>>Romney shouldn't have had to run the perfect campaign to beat him.



>>>But he actually did have to do that.

There in lies the disconnect. We can't move forward with *any* political agenda if we prima facie lose 47% of the vote. This becomes a chicken or the egg problem. We have to do something about the electorate in order to have sufficient support to forward a political agenda, but the principal means of shifting the electorate is forwarding our agenda and making people successful and self sufficient. This is why the financial disaster really has to occur I think. It will be the only way to shift the electorate significantly enough that we can actually get enough of our agenda through to fix a lot of these problems. The good news is, there isn't anyone around left willing and able to prop us up if we have a monetary problem, so this will be much quicker than it is for say Greece or Spain.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 07, 2012 01:30 PM (0q2P7)

590 Ace, the criticisms are justified. I remember you mentioning some time ago that the attack ads should start to be aired and they never came. His advisors could have come straight from McCain's campaign.

Posted by: Decaf at November 07, 2012 01:31 PM (+Bpfx)

591 #8 killed him with the 18-29 vote (which apparently outnumbered the 65+ vote for the first time ever). All the young skulls full of mush were running around screaming "EEK EEK EEK ROMNEY WANTS TO CHAIN ME TO THE KITCHEN SINK AND MAKE ME HAVE BABIES AND HE'LL BAN ABORTIONS AND I'LL NEVER HAVE SEX AGAIN EEK EEK." Just unbelievable. Unmarried women went for The Won with 70% of the vote. They really did vote with their lady parts.

Posted by: Moose4 at November 07, 2012 01:31 PM (W15Fy)

592 Summon the meteors.

Posted by: Butters at November 07, 2012 01:31 PM (NIZHJ)

593 >>>HOWEVER, having said that. For those of us who are pro-life it's not as simple as discerning the cases into "easiest" and "hardest." It's life, there are no easy cases, only hard ones. So to be philosophically consistant we have to believe that abortion even in the case of forcible rape is tantamount to murder.

Dude, if someone's in your house you will shoot him. And he may turn out to be a drunk who just stumbled into the wrong house.

There are exceptions to the rule against killing.

This is disgusting. I find this position disgusting.

Women do too. Women, who may actually be raped, and may actually become pregnant, find it disgusting that you would deny them the morning after pill.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:31 PM (LCRYB)

594
495It's not just the takers it's also the unions.

But you repeat yourself.

Posted by: California Red at November 07, 2012 01:31 PM (Ho3p+)

595 Bottom line? Romney is a pussy RINO.

That was pretty easy.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo intellectual at November 07, 2012 01:31 PM (wR+pz)

596 There are alot of rural people who were very uncomfortable with Mormonism and I think they stayed home. I also think the Ron Paul supporters did not participate.

Posted by: KC at November 07, 2012 01:31 PM (i7KmQ)

597 Puerto Rico voted for statehood yesterday, for those not paying attention.

That will re-create the two-party system in this country: "D-Free Shit For Latinos" vs. "D-Free Shit For Other Clients"

Posted by: t-bird at November 07, 2012 01:31 PM (FcR7P)

598 Here's a response from one of my son's FB friends. Honor student. Obama brainiac. "Obama will turn the economy around 360 degrees if the Republicans don't interfere". Truer words have never been spoken by a more stupid ass 16 year old. VOTER IN TWO YEARS.

Posted by: NCKate at November 07, 2012 01:31 PM (MsQkt)

599 I am a very strong supporter of Sarah Palin from the get-go. I did not stay home. this election. It was ABO all the way and for the candidate most likely to do the job.

Posted by: mrp at November 07, 2012 01:31 PM (HjPtV)

600 Dang that was long.

I think the #1 is a bit naive. You are giving way too much credit to the democrats to think those debates had that much of an impact. Not buying it, and same for a lot of the other arguments.

#2, definite impact. At least outside the affected states. Good photo ops. As close as things were this may have swung it, and if so, well, so what. The fact that the race was so close that this caliber of voter could tilt the scales back is the whole problem to begin with.

#6 - this is a big one, probably the biggest as far as the actual vote demographics go. That is something we could have done better. Romney said some dumb things.

#8 - very weak. I mean come on, really. If that's the case then this battle is already lost anyway. You're talking about symptoms. What that guy said wasn't even a big deal, Romney has said worse. It was a simple gaffe taken out of context. Get over it.

The one think not mentioned though, what a shock, is the whole part about Romney not being all that different from Obama. You seriously don't think that had an impact?

Posted by: Andrew at November 07, 2012 01:32 PM (Egza/)

601 He never called Obama a liberal. Ever.
__
In his later stump speeches, he did blame thefailing economy on preazy implementing his liberal agenda.

Posted by: kallisto at November 07, 2012 01:32 PM (jm/9g)

602 Saw Libertarian yesterday gloating at GOP defeat.

"Yeah, that was a revenge of Ron Paul. That'll teach GOP. Ron Raul should run in 2016..."

The most self deluded crowd I've ever seen.

Posted by: Comrade J at November 07, 2012 01:32 PM (T7lSs)

603 Oh, and does anyone know a good solar generator company, 'cause it looks like I won't be able to afford gas form my gas generator.

Posted by: Iblis at November 07, 2012 01:32 PM (9221z)

604 543

I'm not saying we did this the right way, at all. Just saying done right, it at worst is a net neutral and at best a 3-4 point positive.

Posted by: Big T Party at November 07, 2012 01:32 PM (oDtMj)

605 There is this weird phenomena with Liberals--they will vote Republicans for--themselves--see Rudy Giuliani--but-

they will send Liberals to the federal seats to nag the hell out of the rest of us.
Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 01:22 PM (r2PLg)


I have a knucklehead out this way who professes this siht. When you call him on stuff he advocates, he declares himself "conservative locally, but 'liberal' nationally."
Whatever that means, I tell him, beyond "I want everybody else to fund the slush but when the hat gets passed to me to keep going."

Posted by: BuddyPC at November 07, 2012 01:32 PM (jfUIE)

606
No one seems to be able to answer this-- WHO didn't vote?

----

I think it will end up being the "meh" right-leaning independents that didn't show up to vote. The Ploufe operation did a masterful job of getting their normally "meh" left-leaning indys "fired-up" to go to the polls while not spuring our "meh"s to do the same.

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 07, 2012 01:32 PM (UypUQ)

607 we had no wedge as a strategy, Romney didn't make Obama own:

gay marriage
high taxes (well a little)
the deficit (well maybe)
abortion (really)
immigration (srsly)

so it came down to "I'm mitt and I am competent"

and that's apparently not enough to get him McCain's turnout.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:32 PM (QxSug)

608 I hear the voters, and as such I will demand our next candidate tosses out condoms and birth control to all the singles at each and every rally.

Posted by: Dave S. at November 07, 2012 01:32 PM (6Zy+s)

609 The one thing the GOP didn't try and is still scared in its bones to try is going for its own irrational but powerful populist appeals.

But of course you know what I mean. Anything but that. Aren't you glad the rightosphere and right-wisemanosphere rose up to ensure that didn't happen.

Posted by: someone (OG) at November 07, 2012 01:32 PM (oDtYC)

610 Florida--I am almost willing to bet it was the Third Rail..

So you lost that, and still did not get Wisconsin.

And--possibly just missed Ohio and/or VA.

You cannot elect an honest politician, from the House without statewide experience--who also does not shore up your weak spot.

Balance--I hate to say it.

I also knew all this but I so admired Romney for taking the shot at honesty with Ryan that--

ugh.

Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 01:33 PM (r2PLg)

611 Wow what a load of absolute horseshit this article is.

When you're all done removing cock A from holes B-Z, sit down by the fire and listen to a little story about the "Real America".

You see, there are two "real Americas". There is the mythical one perpetuated by the Republican majority, that of self-sufficient upstanding farmers from the 1950's who are being DROWNED OUT by the media goddamnit!

And then there is the REAL "real America", a nation of mouthbreathing shitstains who would have trouble reading Ace's article, let alone understanding its ten "points".

These people need someone to tell them what to think, Obama was up to the challenge. Romney assumed the best in people and played Mr Nice and Competent.

Fucking pathetic. I'll give you 2 reasons Romney lost.

1) He's Mitt Romney
2) The GOP sucks cock by choice

Thanks for failing, see you next semester.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 07, 2012 01:33 PM (d2QQ4)

612 >>>As long as there are actual pro-life politicians left (and I mean real ones not the Joe Biden "my personal position" type) the media will hammer the question home. I'm not sure we need to abandon our position, just get better at defending it.

sure, get back to me with this better argument that the State should compel a rape victim to bear her violator's child.

Nine months of rape.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:33 PM (LCRYB)

613 Our country has changed culturally in a profound way over the past decade.
Reagan would have lost last night.
The traditional foundation of a healthysociety (values,family,faith,character,etc.)means little to the majority of Americans.
Rush is still blabbering how a true conservative would have saved the day. LOL.
Those days are long gone...

Posted by: LloydChristmas at November 07, 2012 01:33 PM (s3eOv)

614 598 Here's a response from one of my son's FB friends. Honor student. Obama brainiac. "Obama will turn the economy around 360 degrees if the Republicans don't interfere". Truer words have never been spoken by a more stupid ass 16 year old. VOTER IN TWO YEARS.

*****

I want a screen shot. I love that.

"Obama will turn the economy around 360 degrees if the Republicans don't interfere"

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:33 PM (QxSug)

615
Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 07, 2012 01:26 PM (feFL6)
Re: Catholics.
Bullshit. Even when they do say that, plenty of Catholics voted for Obama and Biden so Catholics aren't really voting on Abortion hard core TBH. Plus the big thing right now for the bishops is the religious freedom aspect. They couldn't endorse a candidate for the tax reasons, but they might as well have endorsed Romney just as a way of getting rid of Obamcare.
I don't recall even hearing "Abortion" at Sunday Mass these last few weeks. It was all "Liberty" and "get this damned law away from us."

Posted by: tsrblke at November 07, 2012 01:34 PM (GaqMa)

616 McCain ran a HORRIBLE campaign, didn't do jack shit in Ohio. But a whole buttload of people still voted for him and didn't vote for Romney yesterday.


It could simply be name recognition.

People really do have a low political IQ.

Posted by: the day after at November 07, 2012 01:34 PM (LpQbZ)

617 I won.



Posted by: Greg at November 07, 2012 01:11 PM (nQwR9)

Your prize is a math quiz.



Posted by: YIKES! at November 07, 2012 01:13 PM (1PE/J)
Get off the internet for the day, everybody. YIKES! has won it.

Posted by: fluffy at November 07, 2012 01:34 PM (z9HTb)

618 >>>still lying, dude

dude, if you saw Romney getting lower turnout than McCain good on ya.

Totally surprised the F* out of me.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 07, 2012 01:34 PM (0q2P7)

619 Even if Romney had done all these things right, I suspect he would have lost anyway.
Posted by: Crashpanic at November 07, 2012 12:27 PM (zU+ii)


---------------------------------------------


That's my belief also. This nation turned the corner last night.

Posted by: Soona at November 07, 2012 01:34 PM (EUJBD)

620 "Bush was a part of the Federal clusterfuck that lead to the 2008 credit
crunch. I know we feel the need to protect Bush in this but he was at
the helm, he held interest rates down for 7 years, the 'ownershit'
society was his baby, and compassionate conservatism had a goddamn price
tag."

I don't feel any need to protect Bush from anything.

My first Presidential vote was for Reagan.

The Bushes have been absolutely key in ruining the post-Reagan GOP.

I would have been delighted if Romney had run hard against both Bush and Obama and said that he intended a clean break from not the last four years, but from the last twelve.

In particular, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars (which I as an an isolationist paleoconservative was not keen on from the start) turn out to have really poisoned the well for the GOP with a bunch of swing voters. People are exhausted and embittered with foreign misadventures.

Romney wasn't in federal service when those decisions were taken. He didn't cast any votes for them. He should have blamed it all on Bush -- which isn't entirely fair or accurate, but when is politics ever that -- and he should have then said that he wouldn't have made Bush's mistake of rushing to war.

Posted by: torquewrench at November 07, 2012 01:34 PM (ymG7s)

621 I ain't in rocket science. Wouldn't turning the economy 360 degrees leave it in it's current death spiral?

Posted by: Butters at November 07, 2012 01:34 PM (NIZHJ)

622 Yo! Some of y'all are buggin' the "eff" out. Romney ran a good campaign. Imagine what would or could have happened if Aiken and Murdock had keep their wack ass mouths shut.

Posted by: Al From Bay Shore at November 07, 2012 01:34 PM (H7qBA)

623 Pretty much got told by my three different employers that they are either shutting down their companies, or laying off nearly the entire staff.

After four years of cobbling together some semblance of full time work to eek out a living slightly above the poverty line, I'm screwed. Probably would be getting fully paid for the last month to two months of work either. Ineligible for unemployment as an I.C. as well.

Sallie Mae and the Commonwealth were kind enough to send me notices that their bills will be increasing as of next month too. How nice of them to 'help' the little guy.

So I put myself in debt to earn a professional degree, graduated magna cum laude, worked at whatever place would sometimes pay me, obeyed the law, lived in a cheap dump within my means, and paid taxes, only too likely wind up homeless in a few months. Getting married, having kids, buying any kind of significant property never going to happen in this economy.

Makes me so glad all the taxes confiscated from my meager paychecks went to providing a higher standard of living to those on the public dole and payroll than I ever had and sadly may never will.

Posted by: Blue Falcon in Boston at November 07, 2012 01:34 PM (KCvsd)

624 Boy are the TruCons back in force. Hypocrites.

Grew a spine once we lost, eh?

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 75% more DOOM! at November 07, 2012 01:35 PM (xAtAj)

625 any gloater who gloats needs to say they predicted lower turnout than 2008.

that goes for libs as well as for "can the GOP finally embrace the left's positions now" true conservatives.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:35 PM (QxSug)

626 360 degrees. Not sure how we fight stupid.

Posted by: NCKate at November 07, 2012 01:35 PM (MsQkt)

627 Here's a response from one of my son's FB friends. Honor student. Obama brainiac. "Obama will turn the economy around 360 degrees if the Republicans don't interfere". Truer words have never been spoken by a more stupid ass 16 year old. VOTER IN TWO YEARS.


You see, it's ALREADY the Republican's fault.

They will seep that into your mind every day, 24-7. You will live with the fact that it is the Republican's fault.

Posted by: the day after at November 07, 2012 01:35 PM (LpQbZ)

628 >>>#8 - very weak. I mean come on, really. If that's the case then this battle is already lost anyway. You're talking about symptoms. What that guy said wasn't even a big deal, Romney has said worse. It was a simple gaffe taken out of context. Get over it.

It's not a gaffe when the guy says "This is my policy."

That's what we call his policy. Not a mistake in announcing his policy. This is actually their policy.

Both lost in states that are red and went for Romney. Why do you think that happened?

In mourdock's case, his polls collapsed just after the comment.

In Akin's case-- the same.

So it didn't hurt? Really?

Whatever.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:35 PM (LCRYB)

629 Rush is still blabbering how a true conservative would have saved the day. LOL. Those days are long gone...
Posted by: LloydChristmas at November 07, 2012 01:33 PM (s3eOv)


-------------------------------------------------


Cut the shit. He's not.

Posted by: Soona at November 07, 2012 01:36 PM (EUJBD)

630 360 degrees. Not sure how we fight stupid.
Posted by: NCKate at November 07, 2012 01:35 PM (MsQkt)



Jam a stick in the spokes.

Posted by: the day after at November 07, 2012 01:36 PM (LpQbZ)

631 The weak spot was National Defense.

Republicans cannot--spot that to Dems.

Dems get away with not having that --we do not.

The rules are made by the MSM--they only apply to Republicans.

Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 01:36 PM (r2PLg)

632 621 I ain't in rocket science. Wouldn't turning the economy 360 degrees leave it in it's current death spiral?

Posted by: Butters at November 07, 2012 01:34 PM (NIZHJ)


Yes. But it would be doing that from a total turnaround.

Sheesh.

Posted by: jwb7605 at November 07, 2012 01:37 PM (Qxe/p)

633 LA Voted to regulate condoms on porn actors. The liberals are not about freedom, even in your own bedroom. Bottom line takeaway for me is that limited government is not a popular notion right now. The electorate wants government to take care of them and give them stuff. If your opposed to that, rapeabortion.

Posted by: California Red at November 07, 2012 01:37 PM (Ho3p+)

634 Not surprised to see many suggesting GOP should abandon social conservatism. We will see a lot more of that in the coming days.

"Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -John Adams

VS

"Well, I'm socially liberal but fiscally conservative" - Every young 'conservative' alive.

A nation that views abortion, gay marriage, free birth control pills and euthanasia as "fundamental human rights" is not long for this earth.

Posted by: McNuggets at November 07, 2012 01:37 PM (JItvH)

635 ace is right, rapebortion killed us.

For what that's worth because if we had turnout worth a damn, it wouldn't have mattered.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:37 PM (QxSug)

636 I think it will end up being the "meh" right-leaning
independents that didn't show up to vote. The Ploufe operation did a
masterful job of getting their normally "meh" left-leaning indys
"fired-up" to go to the polls while not spuring our "meh"s to do the
same.


Posted by: Serious Cat at November 07, 2012 01:32 PM (UypUQ)


..further, we practically handed them an easy way to do this with the Akin headache. I believe that "rape and birth-control" nonsense was what made Team O's job easy to stoke up fear and loathing in there normally reasonable democrat-leaners. The birth-control mandate, I suspect, was entirely political trick to stoke a reaction from the right to then be able to use in their campagin to target these voters.
I'd like to see data if or not Team O's "meh" votes were disproportionately female.

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 07, 2012 01:38 PM (UypUQ)

637 and make no mistake, we were killed with respect to the Senate.

The next 2 years will be the same as the last 2.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:38 PM (QxSug)

638 535 He did better with the Republicans that did show up--than McCain. IIRC

The polling data from last week showed Romney winning Independents by a large margin (which that vote did not materialize as projected) but he was losing moderates. Maybe those are the votes he lost. Just a theory.

Posted by: 80sBaby at November 07, 2012 01:38 PM (YjDyJ)

639 Related to the yoot vote, I saw a great bumper sticker today: "I Was A Liberal Arts Major. Would You Like Fries With That?".

Posted by: Ian S. at November 07, 2012 01:38 PM (B/VB5)

640 The problem with talking about abortion and rape is that the left and right view rape differently. The left uses a much looser definition of rape, and will occasionally admit that they view all men as barely contained rapists (the argument against parental notification is based on the same assumption that there is an epidemic of fathers molesting their daughters). As a result, the left has managed to convince women that pregnancy from rape is a serious possibility and thus whipped up their fear.

Posted by: Alex at November 07, 2012 01:38 PM (HwgHt)

641 579

Guess who lives in Jersey and isn't supporting Chris Christie?

This guy! And the rest of my extended family in the area.
Fat bastard is dead to me.

Posted by: Big T Party at November 07, 2012 01:39 PM (oDtMj)

642 As much as it pains us to admit it, the Sandra Fluke nonsense worked for their side.

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 07, 2012 01:39 PM (UypUQ)

643 325 So about 2016? Any names come to mind?

GuaranDAMNTee you Chris Christie will be the R's Powers that be Candidate

Posted by: Evilpens at November 07, 2012 01:39 PM (ck76k)

644 Loathe to do this but--responded to a Liberal

Hope that a bunch of Americans are murdered by terrorists. That'd sure help.

****

Well watch something like that happen.

Last election we had an economic crisis-which caused McCain to suspend his campaign.

At the time a lot of people were wishing that Republicans had nominated the Econ guy-Mitt Romney.

Now watch the inverse of that happen, a National Security crisis and we have elected Mitt Romney the candidate that has little experience in that department. It's not his strong suit.

In fact supposedly Republicans have lost their advantage in the National Security department with the electorate because the polling has shown that the Democrats have closed the gap in that area.

Republicans have lost that advantage, and we talk about Romney getting ahead of the "what if" curve-as in "what if" the economy recovers.

Well what if there is a National Security crisis on the horizon? Romney needs to shore up his bona fides in that department, perhaps by making an appropriate VP pick.

Most of the Executive's power is in foreign policy.
Posted by: [.....] at February 03, 2012 03:08 PM (r2PLg)

Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 01:39 PM (r2PLg)

645 For what that's worth because if we had turnout worth a damn, it wouldn't have mattered.

-------

I wonder who it isthat didn't vote. I mean, I would LOVE to talk to someone who voted for John McCain but then did not vote for Mitt Romney. That seems like an amazing case study in political thinking to me

My early guess, evangelicals. Not all or even most, but enough of them. I heard multiple times from ultiple evangelicals that they had problems with Mitt Romney being a Mormon.

Posted by: Rich at November 07, 2012 01:39 PM (arczc)

646 #578 I will say this again and again. The GOP establishment DID NOT WANT MITT ROMNEY.


They wanted Mitch Daniels. Now, ask yourself why Daniels folded.

Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 01:39 PM (qe2/V)

647 I'm going to get killed on this - but I posted numerous times on my own now dormant blog about the W plan for illegal immigration and when it was shot down I said to a number of friends and posted that the GOP has handed the popular vote in this nation to the DEMS for the short term and most definitely for the long term. By refusing to face reality and work the problem rather than complain about the problem the GOP are out of touch with the reality of the US. I'm not saying the GOP needs to like it, but they had better deal with it. The same is more true with the lack of thoughtful policy models to lift urban minorities out of generational poverty.

Don't get me wrong, I believe that throwing money at the problem as has happened in skyrocketing amounts will not solve the problem; it's a bad idea. Sadly, the GOP doesn't even have a "bad idea". They have "no ideas" on how to address the concerns and needs of 25% of the nation "that votes fervently" other than being perceived as the group that is "against handouts".

The demographics - like it or not - of the US are changing. The GOP has not adjusted to the changes in the land and needs to "embrace" this change - not oppose or tolerate, but embrace. This embracing will be shown when the GOP leads the way in making clearly defined policy initiatives that afford opportunity to the elements of society who have historically been for one reason or another unable to join in the "American Dream". Wouldn't this be better than "throwing money at the problem" that no one likes and that doesn't work. One opportunity is through education. We know that the most significant predictor of prosperity is via education. Many minorities know that NCLB and RTTP do "not" work and are hurting groups which already were at the bottom. Strong work in education policy may be an inroads to this group - but it can't be a one-way street - and would require listening without judgement to the perspectives by the other side.

It's time the party that emancipated slavery in this nation deal with the real fallout that "every society" which has embraced slavery faces from the formerly enslaved. Where are the POLICY models to address this critical issue other than the "perception" that the GOP is made up of people who despise poor minorities. I'm not talking about paying taxes or even giving to charity.

What is needed are governing policies. This is no longer a racially homogenous nation. You may not like what I say, and I won't say I'm happy with it. The country is "not" the same as it was when you were born in fifty years ago. You can bury your head in the sand, which is fine. Just don't be surprised if the "razor thin" wins of 2000 and 2004 in a national campaign are the high water mark of the GOP in the next 25 years.

Posted by: jjdcoach at November 07, 2012 01:39 PM (EC1Pt)

648 "I think there were a lot of attacks Romney avoided because he wanted to avoid scorn and derision by the press. He wanted to be gentelmanly." - Ace

No, he made the gamble a majority of Republicans did: you can't be re-elected w/ 8% unemployment.

Any other attacks would have more or less just distracted from that, which was their strategy. If you didn't believe it was all about the economy there was no reason to nominate someone like Romney to begin w/.

I always thought it was suicidal to run a Wall St and born-rich guy in this election cycle. But I started to think I was wrong after the first debate...it really did seem like people would take any credible alternative when Romney started to rise in the polls.

Not to put down Romney, who really grew on me...but it did seem like the "ABO + it's the Economy, stupid" people may have been right. Before that I had thought he was unelectable and we needed a much more broad message than the economy to have any chance at all.

None of this post by Ace explains, btw, why our turn-out was so bad though. Would "Benghazi" have increased R turn-out? Sorry, don't think so.

I also think Sandy helped O for the reasons discussed, but do you want to know why it did for reasons not discussed?

Climate change is real.

The climate of the World has always been changing from the start (long after the dinosaurs had died out the climate of Europe was a tropical rain forest) but to think we don't contribute to it at least one percent is the kind of thing that makes many think we're all anti-scientific sub-intellects.

So does shouting "we have the best healthcare system in the world" when we're essentially paying double or more for treatment when our doctors are no better than Canada's or Germany's or Japan's, etc.

Meanwhile, we build schools and hospitals in Afghanistan. Good luck explaining that, to a white or black or latino blue collar worker.

I wonder how many of you even know that of the people w/ no health insurance in this country, 40% are Republican? And now that I've told you, do you even care?

We may have seen another kind of "Bradley effect" yesterday. People who claim they're Republicans, but are voting for the Party that says it will give them healthcare, while the other Party talks too much about repeal and not enough about replace.

We surely don't have to support unworkable nonsense like Obamacare and cap and trade, but we do have to come up w/ our own solutions to climate change and people w/out insurance.

I believe that the fact that the Rs in the Senate never proposed an alternative to Obamacare, not only helped solidify support among Ds for it...but cost Romney a point or so, because the GOP has been awol on many of the most important issues of the day.

Here's the brutal truth: the GOPs policies over the last four years probably hurt Romney, more than his centrist tendencies (and those of Rs like him) ever hurt the GOP.

Posted by: trickamsterdam at November 07, 2012 01:40 PM (uTBHY)

649 I think the Mormon issue is being underplayed today.

Hard to explain the turnout any other way.

McCain, himself, did not get the Bush evangelicals, but Romney got even less. And he lost Catholics too.

Going forward... I would love to see a slow dump of the envangelical bloc. They are unreliable and risky (i.e. rape/abortion, Pat Robertson wacky declarations). They will never vote Dem, so let them stay home.

We can focus on freedom, economic liberty and self-reliance (with some generic family values sprinkled in). Then target Indies, educated single woman, middle class Hispanics, soft Libertarians, etc.

Just my (depressed) opinion.

Posted by: nhwingnut at November 07, 2012 01:40 PM (DhgCF)

650 I think it will end up being the "meh" right-leaning independents that didn't show up to vote. The Ploufe operation did a masterful job of getting their normally "meh" left-leaning indys "fired-up" to go to the polls while not spuring our "meh"s to do the same.
Posted by: Serious Cat at November 07, 2012 01:32 PM (UypUQ)You are probably right. But many will still blame socons because many Republicans just don't like them.

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at November 07, 2012 01:40 PM (MNWe/)

651 I read somewhere that only 30% of Christian women vote.

Posted by: KC at November 07, 2012 01:40 PM (i7KmQ)

652 "I'd like to see data if or not Team O's "meh" votes were disproportionately female."

Doesn't matter. Zero didn't have enough votes to beat McCain 2. Turns out Romney wasn't even McCain 2.

Posted by: someone (OG) at November 07, 2012 01:40 PM (oDtYC)

653 577 That post was fucking hilarious!!!

Posted by: Chris at November 07, 2012 01:40 PM (KvU/Q)

654 The other reason Mitt lost is because he didn't choose SMOD as his running mate.

Posted by: SMOD Dec. 2012 ? at November 07, 2012 01:40 PM (zk8YS)

655
Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:33 PM (LCRYB)
I ain't got a better argument than the whole argument approaches the question wrong. Why are we always focused on the pregnancy as if it's entirely unavoidable. If we worked to increase timely reporting and fast medical response, we'd be able to statistically reduce rapes to almost 0. (Well I guess the best argument I got is "Why should an innocent child have to die because somebody else was a horrific person.)
Heck a Squishy pro-lifer would be OK with rolling a DC into the rapekit which basically would reduce it to 0.
The problem has never been a lack of access to abortion it's been a horrific rape response system. But for some odd reason the people pushing the #waronwomen meme never want to address that.

Everyone always assumes that the whole abortion/rape thing is an abortion right there in the hospital. To be honest if we're talking "abortion" (and not EC or DC response) it's weeks and/or months post rape at that point. It's not just a singled cell organism then.

Posted by: tsrblke at November 07, 2012 01:40 PM (GaqMa)

656 "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -John AdamsPosted by: McNuggets

Unfortunately, it doesn't mean that the Founders wished to use the Federal government as a morality police.

He and the others were only stating what citizens must bring to the table.

Government enforced morality isn't morality or moral. It's the power to induce evil.

Think of what the Left considers moral. Those things are becoming law.

Happy?

Posted by: burned cut-loop at November 07, 2012 01:40 PM (jo069)

657 Will we ever know who F-ed us?

Posted by: Butters at November 07, 2012 01:40 PM (NIZHJ)

658
A nation that views abortion, gay marriage, free
birth control pills and euthanasia as "fundamental human rights" is not
long for this earth.

Posted by: McNuggets at November 07, 2012 01:37 PM (JItvH)
I love how the quote doesn't translate into a theocratic state. His point was that SOCIETY had to be moral to survive in a constitutional republic, not govt. That is on it's face true, as we see from the Arab Spring.

And FWIW, only the TruSoCons are the ones saying Ace and other want to get rid of abortion as an issue. It's RapeAbortion, a tiny tiny tiny issue compared to Roe v Wade and our abortion on demand society.

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 75% more DOOM! at November 07, 2012 01:41 PM (xAtAj)

659 Question gents....

I keep hearing:
- We need to be softer on immigration, social issues, abortion "contraception", etc., etc.

Here is the question:

If you are softer on those things, what makes you different from Liberals? Libertarians? Seriously. If you think that you need to do those things to win, why bother? Why not just join the Ron Pauls and Obamas? You would share their ideas, though perhaps leaders that you personally like.

You need to decide who you are and what you stand for... even if the world is going to hell.

Posted by: Comrade J at November 07, 2012 01:42 PM (T7lSs)

660 As much as it pains us to admit it, the Sandra Fluke nonsense worked for their side.

-----

Which, again, isn't something we can compromise on or change our views on, because there was literally nothing there. They simply lied about our position and the American people bought it. That's just how fucking stupid the American people are.

Posted by: Rich at November 07, 2012 01:42 PM (arczc)

661 People already getting a check don't need or want jobs.

Posted by: Butters at November 07, 2012 01:42 PM (NIZHJ)

662 Look, it was a tough night. But I think we can all agree that it was Sarah Palin's fault, and move forward. My resume has been updated, and I'm available for the 2016 campaign.

Posted by: Steve Schmidt at November 07, 2012 01:42 PM (Ks4nX)

663 'Viable' in the sense that they had actual records and looked electable. Bachmann? Cain? Gingrich? Santorum? Paul? Sorry, no. Fruitcakes, spotlight seekers, single issue candidates, etc.

Once the contenders were taken out, we switched from one TrueCon hero to the next, once a month, until only Romney was left standing. He didn't have to do a thing.


I guess what I meant was were there any out there who didn't run who actually would have been viable options to Romney. None of the ones who ran could hold a candle to the guy and I am wondering if there were others who could have given him a legitimate run that were perhaps "encouraged" not to run. IMO the fix was in from the beginning and that fat turd Mossbacher admitted it right after Perry declared.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at November 07, 2012 01:42 PM (JxMoP)

664 @606
[raises hand]

Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 01:42 PM (jQm+J)

665 #643 Yes, you are right, the Establishment will try to push Chris Christie. Don't forget that some of them begged Christie to get in the race this time. They had no confidence in Romney.


I would strongly suggest that we get behind Mike Pence or Bob McDonnell for 2016, and fast.

Posted by: rockmom at November 07, 2012 01:43 PM (qe2/V)

666

So, SCoaMF, how about that Keystone Pipeline?

Posted by: the day after at November 07, 2012 01:43 PM (LpQbZ)

667 Millions of tiny human lives are on the brink in part because some TruSoCons don't want to settle on RapeAbortion.

I weep.

I must be one of those crazy Libertarians that just hates babies!

Posted by: HoboJerky, now with 75% more DOOM! at November 07, 2012 01:43 PM (xAtAj)

668 Soona-he still spouting' conservatism works everytime it's tried'.
That's true if you have an electorate who are actual human beings and not soulless vultures...

Posted by: LloydChristmas at November 07, 2012 01:43 PM (s3eOv)

669
I'm done.

Many of the posters here want to jettison the social cons despite all of the evidence that socons are the most reliable Republican voters.

Nominate Rudy Giuliani next time. I'm sure that will work out for you.

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at November 07, 2012 01:43 PM (MNWe/)

670 I can't fault Mitt as a candidate.

Central casting in Hollywood couldn't find a better player. Rich, good looking, boy scout morals, successful, you just couldn't find someone who should appeal to the broad concensus of the population more than Mitt.

All we had to do was get the same amount of votes as we did with that asshole McCain, and we couldn't pull it off.

I got a number of robocalls at my house, but no real person ever called to encourage me to vote. Why not? Where was the ground game?

It's time for the billionaires who put the serious money into this game to consider some alternative venues for their cash than the traditional DC based consultants. It's time for Ace and I to do a business plan.

Posted by: jwest at November 07, 2012 01:43 PM (ZDsRL)

671 If the media had been ten percent less adversarial half of these issues would've been mitigated. The culture shifted post 9/11 and conservatives failed to get the memo. Politics follow culture and unless we take back the media and academia it will get worse. No matter of amnesty or abortion will change the fact we gave up on the tools used to instill values and culture. Unless THAT changes we are pissing in the wind with anything else.

Posted by: Exasperated Expat at November 07, 2012 01:45 PM (gkfSV)

672 hey, the evals didn't vote for romney in the primary so don't blame them for getting us mitt. They stayed home, blame them for that.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 01:45 PM (QxSug)

673 Posted by: Blue Falcon in Boston at November 07, 2012 01:34 PM (KCvsd)
---------------



I am so deeply sorry, Blue Falcon. I know that counts for less than nothing, but still.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 07, 2012 01:45 PM (P6QsQ)

674 cant*

Posted by: Rich at November 07, 2012 01:45 PM (arczc)

675 Is this true? Evangelicals turned out in deep red states, but not in swing states. If true, how to explain?

Posted by: Spike at November 07, 2012 01:46 PM (wtnmC)

676 While it's a good list, the fundamental reason is because the American people acted stupidly yesterday.

Christopher Taylor made a good analogy here a while back. He likened this election to storming a beachhead in a war and trying to get, not only your ass, but your buddy's, across that beach and over the hill without getting blown to pieces. You're trying to run, but your buddy is gazing off into the sky, saying "Oh, look at that bird!" or stopping to pick seashells off the beach. You're trying to drag him and he just won't go.

We can (and will) nitpick this thing to death but fundamentally, I thought Romney was a good candidate. I thought Ryan was terrific. But the nation didn't want to listen to adults. I think Reagan would have lost this year.

Posted by: Donna V. at November 07, 2012 01:46 PM (7OHl8)

677 Seriously, this whole thing is going to crash into the fucking mountain and its all going to be on JEFs head. When interest rates return to reality the budget just got blown the fuck up. They either have to raise taxes on *everyone*, start printing money like Zimbabwe/Weimar or drastically cut the budget. We *know* how this is going to play out.

That's the difference between us and them, we can see where the future is going. We tried to warn the rest of the country and they don't want to hear it. So fuck 'em, the only thing left for us to do is prepare for the coming disaster because it is coming.

Posted by: DanInMN at November 07, 2012 01:46 PM (khf9A)

678 Not surprised to see many suggesting GOP should abandon social conservatism. We will see a lot more of that in the coming days. "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -John Adams VS "Well, I'm socially liberal but fiscally conservative" - Every young 'conservative' alive. A nation that views abortion, gay marriage, free birth control pills and euthanasia as "fundamental human rights" is not long for this earth.
Posted by: McNuggets at November 07, 2012 01:37 PM (JItvH)


--------------------------------------------


Spot on. This nation was designed around the idea of a power greater than ourselves (God, if you wish). A nation passing policies of the most fiscal policies without moral guardrails will always crumble to where we are now. It's been proven over and over.

Posted by: Soona at November 07, 2012 01:46 PM (EUJBD)

679
FWIW Ace,
I'd like a better argument that I need to hold a philosophically inconsistant view merely because it's nuanced.
I'm willing to concede that any law is going to have a "rape and incest" exception from a political standpoint, but when asked the question, why can't conservatives question the fundamental assumption behind it (i.e. that rape response must be poor permitting a large number of pregancies to occur as a result of rape?)

Posted by: tsrblke at November 07, 2012 01:47 PM (GaqMa)

680 "510
By the way, Democrats cheer that every year more old whites die off, making the electorate more Democrat.



Read them. They aren't shy about cheering for the deaths of their racial enemies.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at November 07, 2012 01:20 PM (ZPrif)"I think that eventually, the white percentage support for the GOP will reach levels near to the African-American support for the Democratic party.Obviously, the issue then will be if there are enough whites and GOP-leaning minorities to make a majority.Bad times coming, it would seem.

Posted by: BS Inc. at November 07, 2012 01:47 PM (P2Ufm)

681 You summed up our loss very well. Only thing I'd add: we brought a bubble wand to a street fight.

For the life of me, I don't get why the GOP didn't fight fire with fire. Nice guys really do finish last.

Posted by: KBDay at November 07, 2012 01:48 PM (u2h3u)

682
sorry the beast will only grow stonger with another four years .the wife and i will not sit back and watch our retirement dream get gobbled up by freeloaders voting themselves a peice of the pie we've worked so hard for.selling the house cashing out and making plans to by a sweet 46 ft Island Packet sailboat and cruise the South Pacific then make our way to the Grand Cayman and give the vacation charter business a whirl

Posted by: kj at November 07, 2012 01:48 PM (AW9md)

683 I wonder who it isthat didn't vote. I mean, I would
LOVE to talk to someone who voted for John McCain but then did not vote
for Mitt Romney. That seems like an amazing case study in political
thinking to me



My early guess, evangelicals. Not all or even most, but enough of
them. I heard multiple times from ultiple evangelicals that they had
problems with Mitt Romney being a Mormon.

Posted by: Rich at November 07, 2012 01:39 PM (arczc)

The answer is simple. These are folks that only vote in positive, big issue elections. Even though they picked McCain as their choice, they were drawn to the polls in the first place by the historic, hopey-change, mood of the 2008 election.
Team O. made 2012 as nasty and small-ball as they cold to keep those folks home... meanwhile microtargeting and scaring the crap out of their own "casual" voters to get to polls ("Rape is on the Ballot!").

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 07, 2012 01:48 PM (UypUQ)

684 So Mr President, now that Israel has launched a massive air strike on Iran and Iran has announced it actually already has Russian generic nukes pointed at Tel Aviv, what are you gonna do?

Oops! You chose poorly.

Posted by: Daybrother at November 07, 2012 01:49 PM (+paCV)

685 Hate to point fingers, BUT... every LIBERTARIAN I know stayed at home or voted for a third party.

Gary Johnson (according to daily caller?) estimated he and his party might have siphoned off 5% of the vote.

Posted by: Comrade J at November 07, 2012 01:49 PM (T7lSs)

686 Oh, for chrissake, you ignored the elephant in the room.

Posted by: creeper at November 07, 2012 01:49 PM (p4APm)

687 675
Is this true? Evangelicals turned out in deep red states, but not in swing states. If true, how to explain?

Posted by: Spike at November 07, 2012 01:46 PM (wtnmC)

I dunno, anti-Mormon robocalls?

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 07, 2012 01:50 PM (UypUQ)

688 @ 544 Al From Bay Shore

I agree, Social Cons and Nativists are the reason the GOP lost. It's not Romney's fault.

Posted by: Mega at November 07, 2012 01:50 PM (idyso)

689 Is this true? Evangelicals turned out in deep red states, but not in swing states. If true, how to explain?

There is no actual polling data that supports any claims about evangelicals not turning out. (If anything, the data looks like independents stayed home, both O-leaning and R-leaning ones).

But it's a super common claim from people today.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 07, 2012 01:50 PM (B/VB5)

690 The "Mormon issue" doesn't seem to hurt Harry Reid....

Posted by: @PurpAv at November 07, 2012 01:51 PM (VGO7b)

691 It's over folks. Our country is so far down the road to serfdom there's no way we can come back. So-cons are never going to give up tilting at windmills, and they will drive low information voters away. The sad truth is we need low information voters to win.

Posted by: not the mama at November 07, 2012 01:51 PM (kzCIn)

692 Oh well. We should all just get the latest Jay-Z CD's and start smoking pot...

Posted by: Chris at November 07, 2012 01:51 PM (KvU/Q)

693 Ace that is like playing the slot machine. So I'll do the same.
I think that Romney was a good man, but point 7 really encompasses all your other points doesn't it? If the candidate doesn't rebut or fight the bullshit then you get defined. When Romney played offense in the first debate he made great strides and Obama was able to recover, mind you Romney was behind at this point. People tuned to see whether Romney was the real deal but the next two times he played safe and it cost him and us at this point.
I don't think yet that the Republican party realizes they are fighting a leftist in the South American mold. You have to fight tooth and nail all the time never play safe. Got keep them on their heels all the way to the end.
Perhaps the gentleman in Romney didn't want to play this way, I understand not wanting to play in the mud, but if you are getting dirty you might as well let it fly.

Posted by: lions at November 07, 2012 01:51 PM (MTPLw)

694 I like how the So-Cons get the blame and the Ronulans/Free Potheads get a pass.

Posted by: Iblis at November 07, 2012 01:51 PM (9221z)

695 "Our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." -John Adams

Posted by: McNuggets at November 07, 2012 01:37 PM (JItvH)

Conservative values can only grow on a fertile ground of enstablished morality and responsibility before God and fellow citizens.

Why not take other people's stuff if it's perfectly legal? Why not "Eat The Rich"? Why not Occupy? If you're young and don't have many prospects - why would you choose the free market? The tepid old idiots like ace and other blue state con bloggers don't understand the simple truth. You can be a fiscal con if you're already enstablished and rich. But if you're young and not well enstablished, you NEED social, moral grounds. Which has been taken away by the GOP and the conservative movement from these young people. No religion - no conservativism. The more libertardian blue state conservative get, the bluer their states get.

Posted by: Juji Pill at November 07, 2012 01:51 PM (EJG9c)

696 638 ---- The year Leo said that his team finished fourth.


Posted by: jjdcoach at November 07, 2012 01:51 PM (EC1Pt)

697 >>>> "Going forward... I would love to see a slow dump of the envangelical
bloc. They are unreliable and risky ..... They will never vote Dem, so let them stay home. "
---------------------------


>>>>>" Looks like the evangelicals didn't turn out for Mitt."

-----------




Okay. Wait. Am I supposed to stay home, or am I supposed to turn out in large numbers next time ? These mixed messages are so confusing.
.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 07, 2012 01:51 PM (P6QsQ)

698 >>>'d like a better argument that I need to hold a philosophically inconsistant view merely because it's nuanced.

it's not any kind of inconsistency to say you don't finish the rapist's work for him.

If a preganancy threatens the life of the mother, you say you support an exception. Why? Why not leave it in God's hands? Did God not plan this pregnancy?

This is the same crap you say with a rape baby-- "God has a plan for this child."

Oh? God planned for the rape?

How do you know God did not also plan for Plan B, then? Why does God's plan plan for rape, but not for a simple pill taken 24-36 hours after a rape?

So God plans the horrifying sexual violation, but doesn't know about the morning after pill?

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:52 PM (LCRYB)

699 We can focus on freedom, economic liberty and
self-reliance (with some generic family values sprinkled in). Then
target Indies, educated single woman, middle class Hispanics, soft
Libertarians, etc.


Posted by: nhwingnut at November 07, 2012 01:40 PM

That's funny.

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at November 07, 2012 01:52 PM (rzTDZ)

700
"No one knew the bubbling enthusiasm people were expressing for Romney would not translate to votes. Romney lost because his base didn't show up and Obama's did. That's why everyone in the conservative sphere was so far off; they accounted for a depressed D- turnout, but never thought the same would happen to Republicans (a thing I'm guilty of.) I didn't think people would follow through on threats to not vote Romney or to go for Johnson. I was wrong."

I don't believe this. Y'all saw the rallies for R-R vs. the disappointing 0bam rallies. Both were widely publicized on this here blog.For days, all the talk here was about how fired up the base was, how many people would crawl over broken glass to vote out the SCOAMF, how a ham sandwich could run against the JEF and win.
I think Romney got all the true Patriots. All the anti-0bam vote. All the anti-gubmint vote. All the anti-tax vote. There just ain't enough ofus anymore. And next cycle, it'll be even less - without ABO fervor, the GOP will need a broader message and abroader coalition than just "Angry White gUYS."

Posted by: d at November 07, 2012 01:52 PM (n0Yvg)

701 I had a guy comment on this. Guess what? if his wife his raped, he says he's goddamned not going to be raising a goddamned rapist's baby, either.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:53 PM (LCRYB)

702 Based on personal experience and anecdotal evidence Evangelicals did turn up, though not once voting for Gary Johnson.

Posted by: Comrade J at November 07, 2012 01:53 PM (T7lSs)

703 I like how the So-Cons get the blame and the Ronulans/Free Potheads get a pass.

Reason actually ran an article before the election claiming Obama would be better than Romney on all forms of freedom.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 07, 2012 01:54 PM (B/VB5)

704 Sorry, Cochise, but it was the Mormon. Romney won the Independent vote. A once in a generation feat for a Republican. But GOP percentage-wise turnout was far worse last night than when comparised to '04 (when evangelicals voted) and about identical to what it was in '08 (when evangelicals and others stayed home). Last night evangelicals stayed home in droves. Romney lost by the margin of those non-votes. It's really that simple.

Posted by: Tsar Nicholas II at November 07, 2012 01:54 PM (pmsMR)

705 Interesting...perhaps there were no missing voters:

http://goo.gl/TOuHb

Posted by: Spike at November 07, 2012 01:54 PM (wtnmC)

706 "I am wondering if there were others who could have given him a legitimate run that were perhaps "encouraged" not to run."

Gee, maybe there's a libertarian-presenting ficon woman who is a socon hero anyway? And is a populist who got some old dude who didn't want to try more votes than Romney?

Naah. Couldn't be.

Posted by: someone (OG) at November 07, 2012 01:55 PM (oDtYC)

707 Don't forget to turn over all your financial data to the HHS next year. Funny, a liberal nurse at work just the other day was complaining about her taxes being too high. Then she mentioned she was "voting with her uterus".

Seriously. You can't win against stupid.

Posted by: Daybrother at November 07, 2012 01:55 PM (+paCV)

708 1. Free Shit > No Free Shit

End of List

Posted by: Roland THTG at November 07, 2012 01:55 PM (I7O5y)

709 I thought it might be evangelicals who sat out the election, but in checking the numbers in my county, I found this:

In my own little world, here's the numbers formy small precinct in south central Michigan:
2008 - 52.04% voter participation
2012 - 78.53% (67/31 for Romney)
For a predominantly black area nearby:
2008 - 31.45% voter participation
2012 - 31.91% (86/12 for Obama)

For a bible-thumping evangelical area nearby:
2008 - 48.29% voter participation
2012 - 74.37% (68/30 for Romney)

This evangelical area is a christian university, so apparently, they came out and voted for Mitt.

Posted by: jwest at November 07, 2012 01:55 PM (ZDsRL)

710 Last night evangelicals stayed home in droves.

-------------



Well then, problem solved!!!



Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 07, 2012 01:55 PM (P6QsQ)

711 642 As much as it pains us to admit it, the Sandra Fluke nonsense worked for their side.
Posted by: Serious Cat at November 07, 2012 01:39 PM (UypUQ)


The whole War on Wimmins did.

Why?

Look at a large number of 18-35 females.

I rest my case.

Posted by: 98ZJUSMC Waiting for the Sun at November 07, 2012 01:56 PM (HKONC)

712 Ace:

Great post and I generally agree with all points. Though I think they are all good tactical points (which in an election this close would of course have made a difference). But we must expand our base. We can't start with losing (a) California, (b) 90% of the black vote, (c) 70% of the Hispanic vote and (d) 70% of the Asian vote.

Now in this election there is not a hell of a lot we could have done about (b), but we have to at least start forcing the Dems to spend resources on California, and we have to get the Republican percentates of the vote up for Hispanic, Asian (and African American vote). Frankly we don't even need to win those demographics -- just cut into the Democrats lead in a meaningful way. I realize that is a nice goal -- and I am not quite sure how to achieve it, but we need to start putting some thought into it.

Posted by: nc at November 07, 2012 01:56 PM (Cxl7g)

713 "No, there are retards who are swayed by that bullshit.




Oooo... look TFG is so...... anti-Sandy!
"




Nah, Sandy only really affected states that were going blue already. FL? OH? WI? CO? Senate races we should have won that weren't torpedoed by rape abortion? Not buying it.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at November 07, 2012 01:57 PM (8JpQH)

714 I think if someone told me yesterday that Obama would receive 10,000,000 less votes then 08, I would have 'bet the house' on Romney on InTrade.


Posted by: The Guy Who Still Has A Roof Over His Head at November 07, 2012 01:57 PM (feFL6)

715 I did see the rallies. And? Obama's voters weren't energized for Obama. They were energized to vote against Mitt Romney. Obama played to his base's fear and hate and desire for revenge. It -worked-. That's the lesson; Republicans need to learn what makes their voters tick, target them, and hit them with an unrelenting message that makes them want to get out to vote.

In addition, we have to find ways to siphon away votes from Libertarians and recapture Ron Paul types and single-issue social conservatives and any other member of the big tent that is only there when the tent happens to be exactly what they want.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 01:57 PM (moRRg)

716 That was excellent analysis.

Posted by: rdbrewer at November 07, 2012 01:58 PM (Iyg03)

717 it's not any kind of inconsistency to say you don't finish the rapist's work for him.



If a preganancy threatens the life of the mother, you say you
support an exception. Why? Why not leave it in God's hands? Did God
not plan this pregnancy?



This is the same crap you say with a rape baby-- "God has a plan for this child."



Oh? God planned for the rape?



How do you know God did not also plan for Plan B, then? Why does
God's plan plan for rape, but not for a simple pill taken 24-36 hours
after a rape?



So God plans the horrifying sexual violation, but doesn't know about the morning after pill?

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:52 PM (LCRYB)

- You can make the argument that when both lives are in danger, you perform triage to save the more viable, the Mother.- In all fairness, I think Murdock's intention is that all human life, no matter the circumstances, rape, down-syndrome, out-of-wedlock, is sacred and should be protected.

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 07, 2012 01:58 PM (UypUQ)

718 648

"The climate of the World has always been changing from the start (long
after the dinosaurs had died out the climate of Europe was a tropical
rain forest) but to think we don't contribute to it at least one percent
is the kind of thing that makes many think we're all anti-scientific
sub-intellects.



So does shouting "we have the best healthcare system in the world"
when we're essentially paying double or more for treatment when our
doctors are no better than Canada's or Germany's or Japan's, etc."

I think there are nuanced analytical arguments for both of these issues, in favor of GOP policies. On climate change, it boils down to costs vs. benefits. To impact that part of climate change we as humans effect, we have to incur too many costs. Want to go back to a world where temperature is 1 degree cooler? OK, it means you have to dismantle every factory in the world. Does that make any fucking sense? Take the chance with the 1 degree. Anyone who isn't the Unabomber will agree. Letting yourself get bogged down into carbon tax negotiations and cap-and-trade bullshit should take a back seat to this more fundamental argument. As should the alternative argument of, "We can't go back to hunter-gatherer days, but, sure, you want to build a sea wall to protect NYC from massive storms that may result from the 1 extra degree? OK, get your environmental lobby to drop the lawfare against any and all big public works projects and get 'er done." Conservatives are NOT against "public goods", but have to be against defining every policy whim of the Left as a "public good".

On the healthcare thing, look at the proportion of those costs which are driven by lifestyle choices (including the "lifestyle choice" of being shot in a drive-by shooting) by the poor, mostly among minorities. What's the diabetes rate among black women, for example? High blood pressure among black men? Once you back out that spending and make a apples-to-apples comparison by socio-economic and demographic status, i.e the Caucasian population of Germany or Canada to our own, our health care IS competitive with any system in the world. The problem, obviously, is that by making that argument, you shift some of the responsibility for costs back on the "protected class" of minorities so beloved by Democrats. Democrats claim to love facts, so drop the facts on their heads like a ton of bricks and make them respond.

Posted by: BS Inc. at November 07, 2012 01:58 PM (P2Ufm)

719 Okay. Wait. Am I supposed to stay home, or am I supposed to turn out in large numbers next time ? These mixed messages are so confusing.


Mama, get used to it. Both sides are going to be coming after the people who believe in God and in Godly principles. It's the New America now.

Posted by: Soona at November 07, 2012 02:00 PM (EUJBD)

720 This was a turnout election.
What happened to the massive GOTV efforts....the Party and all the allied groups including Tea Party groups could not help us get to the level of the 2008 McCain depressed turnout let alone Karl Rove's 2004 72 hour plan.
Everybody thought we had all these people showing up...I'm from Ohio and all the counties that the GOP/conservatives count on to provide a 2-1 margin were mostly 3-2. Even the coal and fracking ares in the eastern part of the state seemed to not reject the threat what Obama is going to continue to do to them.

Posted by: Cassady75 at November 07, 2012 02:00 PM (LjeoB)

721 @717: Agreed, and it actually closes a long-time consistency hole in the pro-life movement, but as a practical matter you can't require a woman who's been raped to carry the child, even if she gives it up for adoption at the end. That's squicky, and I say that as a card-carrying SoCon.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 07, 2012 02:00 PM (B/VB5)

722 I'm an Independent who stupidly voted for Obama in 2008 but went out and knocked on doors for Romney in Virginia this time.
I thought Romney was an excellent candidate. I do think that someone who was more conservative would have fated much worse.
I don't think there was anything Romney could do with the media in the tank for O. I do think the Republicans need to work on figuring out how to get the Hispanic vote.

Posted by: Victoria at November 07, 2012 02:00 PM (bmHOj)

723

My post-election thoughts. I didn’t sleep last night, but
that isn’t unusual I’m a chronic insomniac but unlike other nights my thoughts
were troubled. How the fuck did Obama win, while Republicans maintained the House?
It occurred to me that it must be low information voters showing up and voting
for Obama at the top of the ticket and ignoring the remainder of the ballot. I
spent the day with my girlfriend we had a pretty good time we went to the park
and had a good breakfast a local restaurant. My girlfriend is the ultimate low information
voter. She only became a citizen a few weeks ago; she gets almost all of her
news from people magazine and similar media outlets. She barely has the ability
to use a computer and speaks only a minimum of English. She was very excited
today to tell me that she voted for Barak Obama. I thought I would test my
theory. “So, who else did you vote for?” She looked at me puzzled. “Oh you mean
the other candidates?” yeah I not vote for them cause I not able to read
ballot.” She replied in broken English. Evidence for my low information voter
theory gained some ground. It occurred to me that we won the election among
likely voters, what we failed to realize is that the democrats are now able to
turn out a shitload of unlikely voters.

Posted by: jones at November 07, 2012 02:02 PM (+MQie)

724
"The Bushes have been absolutely key in ruining the post-Reagan GOP.

I would have been delighted if Romney had run hard against both Bush and Obama and said that he intended a clean break from not the last four years, but from the last twelve.

In particular, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars (which I as an an isolationist paleoconservative was not keen on from the start) turn out to have really poisoned the well for the GOP with a bunch of swing voters. People are exhausted and embittered with foreign misadventures.

Romney wasn't in federal service when those decisions were taken. He didn't cast any votes for them. He should have blamed it all on Bush -- which isn't entirely fair or accurate, but when is politics ever that -- and he should have then said that he wouldn't have made Bush's mistake of rushing to war."
There's a great deal of truth in there. Well said.

Posted by: Jess1 at November 07, 2012 02:03 PM (LwGY+)

725 What was that about the latest in the Benghazi scandal? Oh never mind... Too late... The election is already over.

Posted by: Chris at November 07, 2012 02:03 PM (KvU/Q)

726 I think we should check quarries around Va and OH, there's probably a truck full of ballots in it.

Posted by: joeindc44 says choom on fuckers at November 07, 2012 02:03 PM (QxSug)

727
I think people are missing the scariest part of last night,the fucking media got a guy who should have been un-electable re-elected anddestroyedthe reputation of a good man in the process. they will now feel all powerful and the message will not be lost on futureGOP politicians

Posted by: kj at November 07, 2012 02:04 PM (AW9md)

728 More and more Evangelicals are not coming out because they are frustrated with the process. The Evangelical and religiously conservative Christians are disillusioned with the entire process partly because of a rise in Orthodoxy in churches and because many churches now are the sole social factor of so many Evangelicals and Orthodox Christians.

Many Christians are philosophically not in stride with some of the economic policies that are endorsed by the GOP - partly because of their perceptions about the role of society (church and secular) regarding those in need. There is a large and understandable segment of religious folk - who are also White - and are very much in favor of "social justice".

It is true that many Christians view with unhappiness abortion and gay marriage. However, many have an equal level of unhappiness with US military low scale warfare having filled 35 of the last 50 years.

More and more Evangelical and Orthodox Christians are disengaging from the political process. They render to Caesar what he deserves -- nothing other than their taxes.

Posted by: jjdcoach at November 07, 2012 02:04 PM (EC1Pt)

729 This evangelical area is a christian university, so apparently, they came out and voted for Mitt.
Posted by: jwest at November 07, 2012 01:55 PM (ZDsRL)

Too bad. Too fucking bad. They should have stayed home this time, and let the self proclaimed "fiscal cons" fend for themselves. They get the blame anyway, sans evidence, from walking mouth diarrheas like ace.

They always get the RINOs they crave, they always lose, and they always blame the boogy men. Someone has to put a stop to this sharade of hedonistic egotism.

Posted by: Juji Pill at November 07, 2012 02:04 PM (EJG9c)

730 "I think people are missing the scariest part of last night,the fucking media got a guy who should have been un-electable re-elected anddestroyedthe reputation of a good man in the process."

That already happened in 1996. Better get some ice for that.

Posted by: someone (OG) at November 07, 2012 02:06 PM (oDtYC)

731 Once again I raise the question.

If you think GOP needs to be softer on abortion, immigration, etc., etc. What makes you different from Libertarians or even Liberals? Not fully Communist?

That's how the latter started too... going softer.

What is the point of electing a GOP candidate who's indistinguishable from DNC's one? To be able to say we did it?

Decide who you are.

Posted by: Comrade J at November 07, 2012 02:06 PM (T7lSs)

732 The reason that Romney laid off of Benghazi is because they gave him a classified security briefing that laid it all out, and told him that anything he said to communicate the truth or bring it out further in the media would get him clapped with a "leaking classified information" charge.

Posted by: cthulhu at November 07, 2012 02:06 PM (kaalw)

733 Mama, get used to it. Both sides are going to be
coming after the people who believe in God and in Godly principles. It's
the New America now.

Posted by: Soona at November 07, 2012 02:00 PM (EUJBD)

-------------
I know. Full armour of God. Get one in your size, and put it on.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 07, 2012 02:07 PM (P6QsQ)

734 Whatever reason he lost, that was our last chance to stem the tide of liberalism. Our last chance and we put our faith in a squishy Mormon moderate.
Four years to prepare, and we show up with limp dicks and misfired cum shots.
Fuck this "Romney was a nice guy" bullshit, if he's such a nice guy then he doesn't belong in politics.
Let's see what kind of weapons grade Fail the GOP churns out next.

Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 07, 2012 02:07 PM (QMRMM)

735
I guess Obama's strategy of depressing the vote worked perfectly. It was their only strategy -- and they executed it. They depressed the Independent vote and maximized their base.

FWIW, I think it will be interesting to see how the Dems do in 2016 with Obama at the top of the ticket. I still think they will get 90% of the African American vote, but I doubt it will turn out in the same numbers. In certain states (Fla., Va., NC) that could have a real impact.

Posted by: nc at November 07, 2012 02:07 PM (Cxl7g)

736 723 "It occurred to me that it must be low information voters showing up and voting

for Obama at the top of the ticket and ignoring the remainder of the ballot."

That fits with an article Steyn wrote a couple years back about a schoolgirl who wrote a letter to Obama asking him to help her school get some money for a new paintjob.

He said it was reflective of a country where intermediate, local institutions were losing their vigor relative to the centralized state.

I was also thinking that the House staying GOP might be the thing that led to Nate Silver's Obama win prediction wrong. That there was a systematic bias in the state-level polling that was not present in the Congressional district-level polling and that I couldn't imagine someone splitting a ticket and voting GOP for Congress and Obama for President, so that Romney would win. I didn't think that a number of people just would vote Obama for President and not vote for any other races.

Posted by: BS Inc. at November 07, 2012 02:07 PM (P2Ufm)

737 721
@717: Agreed, and it actually closes a long-time consistency hole in the
pro-life movement, but as a practical matter you can't require a woman
who's been raped to carry the child, even if she gives it up for
adoption at the end. That's squicky, and I say that as a card-carrying
SoCon.

Posted by: Ian S. at November 07, 2012 02:00 PM (B/VB5)

But... what if in the near future medical technology makes it possible to transfer the fertilized egg out of the mother's body carry it to health and birth outside the womb?

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 07, 2012 02:08 PM (UypUQ)

738 "But... what if in the near future medical technology makes it
possible to transfer the fertilized egg out of the mother's body carry
it to health and birth outside the womb?"

-- Then we address it then.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 02:09 PM (moRRg)

739 735

I guess Obama's strategy of depressing the vote worked perfectly. It
was their only strategy -- and they executed it. They depressed the
Independent vote and maximized their base.


Ace mentioned this as an Obama strategy and it worked.

Posted by: Dr Spank at November 07, 2012 02:10 PM (4cRnj)

740 The GOP will never outpander the Dems in reaching out to Hispanics. That being said, it has to be done. The only way to co-opt them is to start giving more prominence to folks like Rubio, Cruz, and Martinez, and run one of them in 2016.

Posted by: msmulan at November 07, 2012 02:10 PM (vSWyU)

741 @730
no it may have started in 1996 but this election is where it reached its zenith. they cast off all pretense and actively out in the opendecided they were going to pick who wins a presidential election

Posted by: kj at November 07, 2012 02:11 PM (AW9md)

742
Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 01:52 PM (LCRYB)
FFS ace, are you even reading my posts? At what point in there did I say "no plan B?" Stop putting words in my mouth.
In fact, if you read I'm saying "the way to fix this is to fix the system to encourage reporting so that women can get Plan B in a timely fashion."
Plan B is not an abortifacent. Because of that the longer you wait to take it, the less likely it is to work. If you get the systems in place and properly working, rape reporting and Plan B administration would hopefully take place within hours of the event. Not days (or weeks) as it sometimes is now.
Heck one of the reasons we have this problem is because some people wait to report until they find out their pregnant. Which BTW is a shame on the system more than anything. (We have a miserable rape reporting system quite frankly it encourages silence more than reporting.) SO LET'S FIX THAT.
The left wants to focus on the abortion issue (and for some reason you do to) when the elephant in the room is the criminally bad reporting system,not the abortion laws.
BTW, if (god forbid) my wife ever gets raped, I want to make sure she's in a hospital as soon as it's safe to call an ambulance and get her there. And I want her to have Plan B 15 minutes after that (give them enough time to get a basic medical history first.)
The life of the mother comparision isn't really even accurate frankly. There's tons more nuance than that. You can't just go "Crap, Mother's in danger, have to abort." You have to try to make sure there are absolutely no other options up and to that point (and in Catholic teaching you still can't perform what's called a "direct abortion." which is where the goal is actually an abortion and nothing else.)

Posted by: tsrblke at November 07, 2012 02:11 PM (GaqMa)

743 How about "this country is infested with low rent scum and affirmative action" parasites" to save some time?

Posted by: TexasJew at November 07, 2012 02:11 PM (J6QYb)

744 I like ace's crypto-medieval suggestion that Bastards and Mongrels don't deserve to live. Concepted under rape? Tough luck buddy - you're a subhuman and you may be killed.

I like it cause it visualizes how fundamentally undifferent savage societies are. Muslims, liberals and libertardians\fiscal cons are all Pro Murder.

Posted by: Juji Pill at November 07, 2012 02:12 PM (EJG9c)

745 re: "One problem is that Romney was talking so much about Winners and those who Risk and Aspire that he didn't talk much about economic Losers." and such...


The problem with your hypothesis is the same as the GOP's increasing problem with those voters.

In issue polls, the "loser" demographic you're talking about is uniquely libertarian—in the seriously capitalistic, *seriously* anti-government, RON PAUL! sense (except that they don't hate Jews), not in the media-libertarian gay-marriage-and-"medical"-weed-like-the-Neterlands upper-class White People™ sense.

Those "losers" to the GOP and say, "I like the sound of this 'less government' thing. Business regs, drug laws, tax incentives and contracting quotas that favor people who aren't like me, illegal immigration, affirmative action—these things have fucked up my and my peers' life. Literally. Mine, ours. OUR OWN GODDAMN REAL LIVES WE HAVE TO LIVE IN. So yeah, we'd really like if you guys would do some of that 'less government' thing you talk about and—"

The GOP interrupts: "You want the government to bail you out because you're a fucking loser. We don't do the socialism-for-losers thing. That's the Democrats. You belong with them. We're the party of achievement. We get the government off the winners' backs. We need less you, more Mexicans. At least they have a fucking job."

"Yeah so do I but see, the government literally and actively and daily FUCKS UP MY LIFE. It's altered the whole *course* of it, thrown up walls all around me. And Democrats are *for* that—fucking up my life is the basis of their whole coalition—but you guys say you're the party of less—"

"Take a welding class, racist."

So they stay home. And you say they stayed home because Jesus told them to and because they're loser-socialists, so they stay home *harder*.

Romney was exemplary of the way that the GOP is "out of touch" (to speak far too kindly of the you-and-Romney wing's actual attitude) with them, so of course they didn't show up for him. Why should they? He hates them.

The Democrats are the winners' party, and the GOP is the Christian winners' party. You are a *subset* of them—as electoral results increasingly show.

Posted by: oblig. at November 07, 2012 02:13 PM (cePv8)

746
"You can make the argument that when both lives are in danger, you perform triage to save the more viable, the Mother.- In all fairness, I think Murdock's intention is that all human life, no matter the circumstances, rape, down-syndrome, out-of-wedlock, is sacred and should be protected"
If you believe that, then good on you.
And if you wish to make that intention law, you'll lose. Big time.
Oh wait, already did.

Posted by: Jess1 at November 07, 2012 02:13 PM (LwGY+)

747 Can't wait for 2016 when we run another one of the moderate GOP intelligentsia's "sure fire" candidates who will appeal to the moderates.

Posted by: McNuggets at November 07, 2012 02:13 PM (JItvH)

748 Ace,

Quite frankly I do not understand you. You realize and lament that the loss is the result of the electorate moving left and yet you yourself can be described as left of the right on social issues? (correct me if I am wrong here).

Posted by: Comrade J at November 07, 2012 02:14 PM (T7lSs)

749 BTW before I go: pretty good analysis Ace.

I just think once the abomination becomes as great as it already is, there is no going back and we already have a de facto third world dictator running the last true superpower. Just my opinion but I feel deep in my gut that the republic is really gone and I've never read a history book that ended differently.
In a few months we will slide back into another financial crisis from which we cannot escape. We have already pumped 20+ TRILLION US dollars into the world in 3 years and the plan is to pretend no one notices. The EU is coming apart and they are having food riots in Spain. China stopped buying our debt 2 years ago and has quietly gone from around 5th or 6th to the second or third largest holder of Gold and their economy is already a fraud.
Read the history of Argentina about how fast it all comes undone. Read about Rome.

I'm going to work. Good luck all.

Posted by: Daybrother at November 07, 2012 02:15 PM (+paCV)

750 I am not an Evangelical. I don't agree withtheir theological, nor do I share some of their political positions. That said, I don't see evidence tgat this was their fault. And I'll go further and say that I think people who are pushing that nition without evidence are trying to drive a wedge in our Party to break us. If they succeed at demonizing Evangelicals, they'll move to observant Catholics and Mormons next.

I havent read many comments so I am not accusing anyone here of this but I beg you to not repeat this spin without facts.

And to those of you who are trolls, whether liberals or libertarians or just shit stirrers, I hope you reap what you have sown.... In other words fuck off and die.

Posted by: Y-not hunting and pecking on the phone at November 07, 2012 02:15 PM (F3WsD)

751 @41 Yes that is a good list. It is also a list only political junkies like us would appreciate. None of that is why we lost. My dumb kids voted for Obama and were blissfully unaware of most of that stuff or didn't care about it. They would have voted for Obama no matter what. People know things aren't going great but they blame others for that. This is no longer a pro-freedom, capitalist nation. It is an immoral, blame the other guy nation. In that sense Obama is the perfect president for those people who are now the majority.
***************
Ditto with my children, who are now grown adults and who will reap the whirlwind. I won't be around to see it, but they will have to deal with yesterday's election results in years to come. And they will live in a secular socialized America that in no way resembles the country I grew up in. At all.... a very sad day for America, and that generation just doesn't get it.

Posted by: chai at November 07, 2012 02:17 PM (+3xW/)

752 By the way, I'm not buying the takers/vs/makers reason for the loss. The exit polls showed that a clear majority wanted a "small and limited" government. Its the other, silly issues that overrode those preferences in enough voters to give Obama the win.

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 07, 2012 02:17 PM (UypUQ)

753

The actual tea party of 1773 was a bar full of drunken dock
workers committing vandalism. The tea party of today is a bunch of old people
politely protesting big government. It is the latter gets labeled as extremist.
Clearly we are doing something wrong.

Posted by: jones at November 07, 2012 02:18 PM (+MQie)

754 Some of these posts confirm my worst thoughts. I hate you arm chair, bitch about everything conservatives just as much as liberals.

Posted by: polynikes at November 07, 2012 02:18 PM (m2CN7)

755 296 Two issues, and the way they were handled by the two sides tell a stark tale.Gun rights -- the Second Amendment is holy ground for many, and the Dems wisely choose to not fight about it. Yeah, they want to nick it here and there but no full blown assault is proposed even in their platform.



I think you'll find some of your missing voters here.Mitthas a very bad record on the Second Amendment and a number 2A people weren't going to support him despite the NRA's forgiveness.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at November 07, 2012 02:19 PM (6BgmB)

756 I can answer #6 for you. Make hiring an illegal alien a felony. Done. Simple, really that simple. That way you aren't penalizing the poor downtrodden brown person but punishing the mean ol' American that is outsourcing American jobs at home. Why can't any of the GOP see this?

Posted by: Stacy B Slay at November 07, 2012 02:20 PM (7qrQU)

757 On point 6:

I think this is the most important issue going forward. Its time for conservatives to embrace hispanic immigrants and make them theirs. Writing them off as "socialists" is part of the problem. Most of waves of immigrants weren't instant americans guys. You have to teach and inspire them to be americans, who love the constitution and the land. Hispanics are natural conservatives. They tend to be religious, family oriented, and the majority have a strong work ethic and a lot of interest in small business. Its a crime that conservatives haven't capitalized on that and if conservatives can, they can ride rough shod over the democrats in the future.

Posted by: Mast at November 07, 2012 02:20 PM (5q6tE)

758 "But... what if in the near future medical technology makes it possible to transfer the fertilized egg out of the mother's body carry it to health and birth outside the womb?"-- Then we address it then.
Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 02:09 PM (moRRg)


--------------------------------------------


If we keep rolling as we are now.......we won't.

Posted by: Soona at November 07, 2012 02:21 PM (EUJBD)

759 I'm late to the commenting party, but the #1 reason he lost was none of your picks but rather because he failed to persuade the 6% or so that were up for grabs (each side has a lock on close to 47% of the vote) that a Romney presidency would make THEIR lives any better.

As a marketer, it was painful to see Romney sell features and not benefits. Yes, the deficit and the debt and size of government are important, but proposing to lower the size of government doesn't do anything for anybody in its own right. Yes, it helps the economy to have people starting businesses, but he failed to connect the dots to how that would lead to these voters having a better life.

It's ironic that in this hidden camera talk, Romney was right that people who don't pay taxes aren't going to be interested in his proposal to cut taxes... but he failed to give him a reason to vote for him.

Plain and simple, he ran a campaign focused on the issues that matter to people who pay attention. His target doesn't pay attention and thus his message was nothing more than static. If anything it hurt Romney to the extent they figured that if they couldn't figure out what Romney was going to do to help them, they might as well vote for Obama.

Posted by: steve at November 07, 2012 02:24 PM (L9End)

760 The actual tea party of 1773 was a bar full of drunken dock workers committing vandalism. The tea party of today is a bunch of old people politely protesting big government. It is the latter gets labeled as extremist. Clearly we are doing something wrong.
Posted by: jones at November 07, 2012 02:18 PM (+MQie)


------------------------------------------


I can get very interested in tactics like that. Except for the drunkeness. That just leads to getting caught.

Posted by: Soona at November 07, 2012 02:24 PM (EUJBD)

761 One thing that happens on the internet is that you say X and people read into that Y and Z.

I for one am not saying socons lost the election. I specifically asked someone for evidence when they asserted that, and asked them not to say "evangelicals stayed home" without evidence.

I also don't think abortion lost the election. The GOP has long been anti-abortion and it's often won.

I am saying what I am saying: That if you want to turn abortion from a neutral issue we can win with to a lethal issue we will lose with, every time, keep pushing the "God planned for women to conceive by rape" angle.

I don't see how this is even arguable. Akin and Mourdock both lost, big, even in Red States! Even in Red States this lost the election for both of them!

And they were both ahead!

And the winner in Indianna, Joe Donnelly, was himself pro-life! he just wasn't pro-forcible-carrying-of-a-rapist's-child!

if you want to keep pretending that a massively, massively unpopular position (which has the added detriment of making people question the rationality of the rest of your issue portfolio) is NOT unpopular, and just needs to be "explained better," then you're simply a Reality Denier.

Mourdock, we were told, spoke about the issue cogently and poignantly, totally unlike Akin. I knew this was false -- people don't give a shit how much you cry when you announce a horrifying position -- but I didn't say so, because I wanted him to win.

I didn't say anything about Mourdock. I'm not sure if any coblogger did. We all did what the No Abortion Even In Cases of Rape crowd advised, which was "just pretend this isn't a big deal, don't feed the media."

We did that.

Mourdock got crushed anyway.

There is no amount of spin and pretty paint you can put on this. It's a horrifying position. It's got about the same level of support as Santorum's notion of revisiting whether birth control should be legal. Something like 80-10 against.

That level of unpopular.

Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 02:25 PM (LCRYB)

762 A link somewhere above says that in the weeks after an election vote totals generally rise from earliest reporting. I know that when I used to have my own blog, I (next morning) recorded the Ohio shortfall for McCain as ~206,000 but now the official number is over 250,000.

I still can't believe 10,000,000 fewer votes for Obama vs 08.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 07, 2012 02:26 PM (feFL6)

763 As someone who grew up in a Christian home and went to a evangelical college and is somewhat of a recent grad, I just don't see many socons involved in politics anymore, just my observation. I don't think that is Mitt's fault.

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at November 07, 2012 02:26 PM (NzBQO)

764 Rush has some words on the GOP outreaching... Link in the URL

Posted by: Comrade J at November 07, 2012 02:27 PM (T7lSs)

765 Some of you might be pleased to note that I just got a text from my evangelical Christian politically-engaged active duty military son, saying, "no more politics for me, from now on it's strictly faith and family."

In the past he has worked for conservative candidates in his district of Wisconsin, when not in uniform.

So count one So-Con out of your party. Perhaps that will bring you some joy this fine day.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 07, 2012 02:27 PM (P6QsQ)

766 Plain and simple, he ran a campaign focused on the issues that matter to people who pay attention. His target doesn't pay attention and thus his message was nothing more than static. If anything it hurt Romney to the extent they figured that if they couldn't figure out what Romney was going to do to help them, they might as well vote for Obama.
Posted by: steve at November 07, 2012 02:24 PM (L9End)


-------------------------------------------


Low info voters are the ones looking foward to free shit. No one takes the free shit away. The low info voter is now the majority.

Posted by: Soona at November 07, 2012 02:27 PM (EUJBD)

767 660 As much as it pains us to admit it, the Sandra Fluke nonsense worked for their side.

-----

Which, again, isn't something we can compromise on or change our views on, because there was literally nothing there. They simply lied about our position and the American people bought it. That's just how fucking stupid the American people are.

Posted by: Rich at November 07, 2012 01:42 PM (arczc)
-----
Well, it doesn't help to have the corrupt media parrot that bullshit. For the average person, seeing newspeople on TV repeat the charges is a powerful "Seal of Approval".

Posted by: Serious Cat at November 07, 2012 02:28 PM (UypUQ)

768 Exit polls say more than half of voters said the country was "seriously off on the wrong track" and this fuck head gets re-elected.

There may be multiple reasons why Mitt lost, but the (R)s lost for one reason - need a better candidate.

Posted by: Texas Ranger at November 07, 2012 02:29 PM (IvvrO)

769 Romney did fine
He was admirable. He stood up there with Paul Ryan and we had one last chance.
Stop kicking his ass. Palin and Santorum, as well as Perry, would have been disasters.

It's just the country that sucks.

The nation that proudly elected Ronald Reagan in 1980 is lost forever

I don't know who (outside of the south and some parts of the west) the hell the electorate is anymore.
They're unteachable, ignorant, hysteric, jealous, parasitic and, frankly, stupid fucks. It's embarrassing being an Anerican these days.
Look at these worthless cocksuckers we have as fellow citizens.

Both of my parents, WWII vets each within combat theaters. would be sickened at what we are now.

Posted by: TexasJew at November 07, 2012 02:29 PM (J6QYb)

770 I think the argument in the rapebortion case was "why kill an innocent life and compound the crime rape with the crime of murder?"
If you don't believe the baby in the womb is a person, that argument won't make sense. And unfortunately for so-cons, too many people don't think a baby in the womb is a person until the sonogram shows identifiable features.
That's a cultural issue, and the right has ceded the culture to the left for too long.
Notice how Barry went on all the fluff shows and avoided the "real news" shows. If Romney had done that, and tried to get into the popular culture more, he might have done better and defused some of barry's arguments against him.
Ceding the culture to the left is a problem for all conservatives, not just the so-cons.

Posted by: Iblis at November 07, 2012 02:31 PM (9221z)

771 MW, please reread Ace's latest followup - no one is saying "socons go away", but rather "deal with what you can, and drop the rest". It's really that simple.

Posted by: Jess1 at November 07, 2012 02:31 PM (LwGY+)

772 I agree with you, steve. I don't think I could say it's THE one reason he lost, but I do think it was amistake fir Mitt to not talk in terms of kitchen table politics. He should have shown the middle class how theur family budget would improve.

I am not mad at Mitt. He did his best even if I disagree with some of his tactics.

I AM mad at the professional political class that either misread the electorate or misled the GOP base electorate.

Posted by: Y-not hunting and pecking on the phone at November 07, 2012 02:32 PM (ndxIr)

773 Posted by: W.H. Doubter at November 07, 2012 02:28 PM (wLibB)

Fuck off you narcissitc prick.

Posted by: polynikes at November 07, 2012 02:33 PM (m2CN7)

774 They lost because it takes more time than you are frequently given to enunciate your position than it does the other side to throw out a blood-pressure-raising accusation or ambit claim that you must rebut.

Also because going after Obama too hard might have opened Romney up to worse flak for hating Obama's blackness.

And for the ten reasons you've mentioned.

But ultimately free stuff, lies, distractions and I suspect a bit of crooked polling here and there.

With Dems talking up the possibility of him "buying" the election even before it started, Romney needed to win in an obliterative landslide or better for him not to have won. It's that simple. He needed to be a hundred-plus clear the whole way, or else. And that's never going to happen so long as California stays blue and can give the Dem candidate a 55-vote boost in one go. Might as well call it blue at the start and work from there.

Posted by: perturbed at November 07, 2012 02:34 PM (u6Ueb)

775 How many military votes did we not receive because of the Pentagon blundering? the last I recall military was 60\30 breakdown (R\D). Can anyone give us an approximate number?

Posted by: Comrade J at November 07, 2012 02:34 PM (T7lSs)

776 Posted by: TexasJew at November 07, 2012 02:29 PM (J6QYb)


--------------------------------------------------


I agree 100%. Tired of trying to make the perverbial silk purse. The pig has grown to be a hog.

Posted by: Soona at November 07, 2012 02:35 PM (EUJBD)

777 Mitt sure wasn't my pick to be the nominee, but I think he ran about as good a campaign as ***someone like Mitt Romney can run***. And I really like the guy on a personal level now, after getting to know him during this. The problem is having someone like Mitt as the nominee in the first place. When the incumbent gets ~10M *fewer* votes than in the previous election, and you can't even manage to get the same number of people to vote for you - ~3M fewer - than one of the sorriest presidential campaigns in history - McCain '08 - managed to get, then the right person was not the nominee. Yes, I know the others might have been as bad or worse, but I'm talking more about all the people in the GOP who sat this one out instead of running. Those cowardly pieces of crap. You can fill in the names for yourself. All the stuff Ace mentions probably factored into some degree or another, but I think it boils down to this: you have to give people a real, stark choice if you want them to change sides. That is, really have sincere positions and beliefs that don't change with the wind direction. (shrug) Honestly, I doubt any of the post-election analysis will do a bit of good because after 4 more years of Barky and Barky's supreme court packing, we will not recognize this country. You just think it's bad now, with this many voting to re-elect this POS...you ain't seen bad yet. None of us have unless maybe those who were alive in the 1930s, and at least back then, the country was big enough and the federal government small enough that you could hide from it if you wanted to. That's hardly the case anymore.

Posted by: davidinvirginia at November 07, 2012 02:36 PM (qEkGZ)

778 The same demographic that was the deciding factor for Obama -- the 18 to 30 age bracket -- are also huge believers in global warming. Indoctrinated their entire lives.

Meanwhile, right now, there are snow covered sand dunes in New Jersey -- two freakin weeks before Thanksgiving.

Posted by: Schrödinger's cat at November 07, 2012 02:36 PM (feFL6)

779
Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 02:25 PM (LCRYB)
Point taken, but what I'm not sure what to do about it.
As a party we can remove it from our platform (easy enough.) As people we really can't. The MSM knows that it's an unpopular postion, but they'll keep asking every Candidate that comes from a religion with that position the question. And that leaves decent party members from those religions who hold those views two options 1) Lie (and be no better than the democrats on that front. 2) Tell the truth and get crushed.
Even if you answer the question with "that's a silly question, such a ban would never become law so my personal beliefs aren't relevant." They'll hang you for it.
At the very least I think we need a decent defennse of our personal beliefs. As it goes, such a defense also has some moral import to it (since, again, we need to be talking about the horrific rape reporting system in this country and have a moral obligation to fix it.)
We're losing on two fronts here, we're getting our ass handed to us on the personal beliefs and we're not picking up anything for the obvious policy issue (i.e. reporting) either.

Posted by: tsrblke at November 07, 2012 02:36 PM (GaqMa)

780 MW, please reread Ace's latest followup - no one is
saying "socons go away", but rather "deal with what you can, and drop
the rest". It's really that simple.

Posted by: Jess1 at November 07, 2012 02:31 PM (LwGY+)

------------
My comment was not directed at Ace. Ace and I have some basic disagreements on some issues, but he has never been anything other than gracious and welcoming IMO. It was other commenters I was responding to, as well as some rather nasty emails I am getting.

Posted by: mama winger, stranger in a strange land at November 07, 2012 02:37 PM (P6QsQ)

781 Rubio isn't gonna do shit. Dunno why people are revering him so much...

Posted by: KG at November 07, 2012 02:37 PM (p7BzH)

782 To quote the late great Voltaire:

"Once a philosopher, twice a pervert"

Posted by: TexasJew at November 07, 2012 02:38 PM (J6QYb)

783 For those wondering where the Republican voters went, they died. According toa Fox News story dated May, 2008, they were dying then at a rate of 1000 per day. I can't imagine that rate hasn't accelerated over the last 4 years.

They've been replaced in the electorate with hipsters, occutards, and other wastes of oxygen.

Back in the day, people grew up at 18 or 22, got a job, got married, had kids, gave a shit about the future.

Now we've got a bunch of overgrown kids, not working, playing Xbox, postponing growing up on student debt and Bank of Mom and Dad I saw every other weekend. I saw a post on yahoo not too long ago where a hispanic commenter remarked: we hispanics have kids. You white people have dogs.

It used to be that reality (and conservatism) hit you in the chops once you got married and had kids and filed that first married, filing jointly tax return. Now that white kids choose not to do any of that, I fear the electorate is lost.

I told my husband his worthless niece and nephew were no longer welcome in home, even if they did vote in Idaho (the niece thought Romney was "sneaky") and Texas (the nephew thought Obama just needed more time) where it didn't matter.

Posted by: the other coyote at November 07, 2012 02:39 PM (yK44T)

784 You're not linking Obama to this financial crisis. Too many fact check media narratives would kill it.
-Lowest spender since Eisenhower
-Growing economy
-More jobs
-Consumer confidence is up.
-Saved GM
All of these grabbed headlines. All of these took a news cycle for us to put an asterisk on. Remember, all bad news is "unexpectedly"

Posted by: Hawkins at November 07, 2012 02:41 PM (DuTGc)

785 Romney and Ryan essentially assumed that they could appeal to voter's intellect. Turns a massive number of voters DID get it, as evidenced by Romney's rallies. Unfortunately, many more prefer to bury their heads in the sand rather than face the fiscal cliff like an adult. The country has been infantilized. Is there really any point in trying to avoid the fiscal cliff anymore? It's got to happen, doesn't it?

Posted by: Spike at November 07, 2012 02:41 PM (wtnmC)

786 "Rubio isn't gonna do shit. Dunno why people are revering him so much."

I agree. What could he do against something like a Clinton/Villaraigosa ticket?

Posted by: Motorhead at November 07, 2012 02:41 PM (qAMin)

787 somehow, someway, the fix was in. that many smart people can't be wrong. that many polls can't be wrong. every poll said we were winning the independents. every poll said repub party affiliation and enthusiasm was up big.
the only answer has to be massive computer hacking. if 10% of repub votes were transferred to obama via recalibrated voting machines or adjusted computer counts, that would answer every question.
there's no way everyone got it wrong. occam's razor.

Posted by: Dogstar at November 07, 2012 02:44 PM (2MnmS)

788 Hmmm... My father (a retired and theologically very conservative Christian minister) and I spoke about the election yesterday and we were both hopeful. We spoke about Mitt Romney and some of his traits and we both touched on something at the same time. I think it is why he lost in some odd way.

Mitt Romney for all appearances seems to my view one of the most decent human beings that has been engaged in the political process. A bishop in his church, a many who has worked hard and been successful, a person who possesses a high sense of ethics in his personal life his family and the clearly demonstrated decency and affection they share for each other was imminently apparent to anyone who would care to look. It shone like the sun and allowed people to see their own lives and that of their families - and they saw something quite different. I am sure that 10% to 15% despised what they saw in that family.

And they voted against it.

All of the issues I discussed previously are moral and ethical issues. Taken as a whole many of the people in the United States are neither moral nor ethical, and they didn't want to be reminded of it.

This is not to disparage the President's family. I personally believe they model a success story of a family. However, there wasn't venom put upon that family as was by many towards Gov. Romney's family.

And there was a lot of venom. I know what I saw and I know what I heard.

Posted by: jjdcoach at November 07, 2012 02:44 PM (EC1Pt)

789 How about we pick someone that can unite national security, fiscal, social conservatives. The nominee needs to be a veteran, federalist, and religious. The the nominee's base needs to be conservative/libertarian.

Posted by: Kiana at November 07, 2012 02:47 PM (w41GQ)

790 I want to echo other folks here in regards to demographics. Recall gents, that the O's supporters come from 18-30 age group. What does that tell you?

School and universities are pumping out mindless sheep. (believe me kids are brainwashed long before they are 18, but 18 is the age when it is noted for voting polling).

Until this problem is solved nothing will change. How do you solve it?

LOCAL ELECTIONS - take over SCHOOL, COLLEGES and UNIVERSITIES boards. That's where the scum who poison your children lurk. Once you do that it will be easier.

Posted by: Comrade J at November 07, 2012 02:47 PM (T7lSs)

791 Ace, you make a lot of good points, but even with all that, Romney would still have lost Ohio. They liked the auto bailout.

Posted by: MrX at November 07, 2012 02:48 PM (PxmNZ)

792 All of the issues I discussed previously are moral and ethical issues. Taken as a whole many of the people in the United States are neither moral nor ethical, and they didn't want to be reminded of it.


---------------------------------------------------------


And as I and a disappointingly low number of other commenters have pointed out, this is the root of this nations problems.

Posted by: Soona at November 07, 2012 02:50 PM (EUJBD)

793 "1. Benghazi/Candy Crowely."

Watch what happens in 2016. If Crowley hasn't somehow bought the farm by then, she'll moderate another presidential election debate, and the Republican Party will spinelessly mount no objection whatsoever.

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at November 07, 2012 02:52 PM (vd7A8)

794 How about we pick someone that can unite national security, fiscal, social conservatives. The nominee needs to be a veteran, federalist, and religious. The the nominee's base needs to be conservative/libertarian.
Posted by: Kiana at November 07, 2012 02:47 PM (w41GQ)


--------------------------------------------


Good luck with that.

Posted by: Soona at November 07, 2012 02:52 PM (EUJBD)

795
RomneyCare. Now that I don't have to soldier for Mitt anymore, I stand on what I said in the primary season. We had to leave half of our domestic policy ammunition unfired because of RomneyCare. Mitt's arcane distinction between state and federal coercive mandates didn't cut it - I understand the wonky side of it (police power, etc), but it still sounds, walks and smells like BS. ObamaCare became a side-issue at best because of Mitt's inability to credibly attack it.A majority of voters support repeal. I'd say +1-3% if we had a candidate who could have made the case against it (by constantly citing it as a tax, perhaps ?)
Mitt couldn't. We nominated him. We narrowly lost.
Can we have a stronger effort from RNC et al to field stronger candidates than this last primary, all of whomlooked quiteamateurish while standing allalone in the public eye for6 months plus? We picked Mitt because he was the only man standing thathad a shot.Perry, Cainand Gingrichall would have done worse judging by their primary performances. Mitt was the best of a bad field, but not good enough.
Can we also get a Grover-style "pledge" for candidates to stop discussing God's Will and God's Judgment?I remember being taught that Christiansshouldn't presume to speak for God - good advice to candidates.If God wants to get a message across, he can do so without Santorum, Bachmann, Akin orMurdoch's help.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at November 07, 2012 02:54 PM (WLuv5)

796

Obama closed down half of the country’s Chrysler dealerships;
we should help him close the other half. The auto industry is the enemy. Any
time you purchase a car made by a union worker you put money into the pocket of
the democrats. Obama closed down half of the Chrysler dealerships in the
country. Al we did was complain that he did so in a political manner. No
freakin shit it was political that surprised absolutely no one. We should have
cheered actually rather than grumbled. He did half of our work for us.

Posted by: jones at November 07, 2012 02:55 PM (+MQie)

797 @792 Soona,

R 8:7. Don't blame them. They can't. For the same reason liberals can't. There is only one solution.

Recall what preceded the Revolution. The great awakening.

Posted by: Comrade J at November 07, 2012 02:56 PM (T7lSs)

798 Also, identity politics. The left keeps complaining when Republicans do it only to turn around and do it themselves. Same thing when they keep saying they want more civility and then turn around an lie about everything under the Sun.

IDENTITY POLITICS!!!

I agree with Ace on abortion. Romney should have stated point blank he wasn't going to change anything, but was going to fight for legislation against partial birth abortions that Obama is for and has a record of it in the Illinois senate. I thought it was great that Romney was able to turn around the Medicare debate. He could have done so on abortion as well. And attacked Obama on it to boot.

Posted by: MrX at November 07, 2012 02:58 PM (PxmNZ)

799 Jo Sixpack rule with two points:

1) Romney put off voters, mainly minorities, by sounding like he was mainly communicating to business owners and not to the employees.

2) Unlike John War Hero McCain, he didn't seem like he would have interesting stories to tell over a meal and a sports game. McCain, of course, would have some harrowing POW and 'Nam stories to tell.

A Romney presidency was never going to happen as much as even the Democrats believed it should have, if you look at the conspiracy theories that were coming from the liberal side leading up to the election.

Posted by: Admiral Obvious at November 07, 2012 03:00 PM (frs8F)

800
790 Jay - good luck firing any of those bad indoctinating teachers even if you win every seat on a school board.It will take decades to take back schools, and you'd have to start by radicallyreforming or outright banning public employee unions.
Until then, wecanfocus oneducation efforts of our own, in venues we create or control. School choice is a broad-appeal issue we can make some gains with. "Deprogramming" is a lot harder than indoctrination but it's all we have for the forseeable future.
It's still hard for me to muster any give a shit today or feel it makes a difference, but fortunately my better instincts are still running on autopilot this am.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at November 07, 2012 03:05 PM (WLuv5)

801 "I'm done.
Many of the posters here want to jettison the social cons despite all of the evidence that socons are the most reliable Republican voters.
Nominate Rudy Giuliani next time. I'm sure that will work out for you."

Good...now that "you're done" you'll have plenty of time to go fuck yourself.

Quitting in the first line of your post wasn't the best way to demonstrate that you are "the most reliable of R voters", btw.

As to Rudy...yeah, he will work out w/ us, faggot.

Posted by: trickamsterdam at November 07, 2012 03:08 PM (uTBHY)

802 SocietyIs2Blame, it is not either or. It is both.

Posted by: Comrade J at November 07, 2012 03:09 PM (T7lSs)

803 *** Conservatives have allowed themselves to be painted as the bad guys by an extremely small sect of gay Hollywood writers. ***

Not necessary gay, but certainly strongly self-emasculate.

Posted by: perturbed at November 07, 2012 03:09 PM (u6Ueb)

804 Here's a question. How many of Obama's votes are -solely- Obama votes that ignored down-ticket races? Same with Romney. That would be interesting; maybe the problem is that we simply need a more rock-star persona in our elections.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 03:10 PM (moRRg)

805 To 797...

This is why many theologically Conservative Christians are disengaging somewhat from the political scene.

We look at social problems from a different perspective than just a "liberal/progressive to politically conservative perspective.

In my own life I realized that for my own peace of mind I needed to disengage somewhat from the process. This came after I lost it all in the financial crisis when my wife and I lost our jobs our house etc. I am gainfully working in academe - but at a much reduced rate - but overall we are happy with our life. Why because we realized that our marriage and our grown children are a good basis for happiness. This came about for me when I read the following:

"We learn of the existence of a City of God whose Founder has inspired us with a love and a longing to become its citizens."
St. Augustine

As much as I love some of the ideals of the United States - it pales in comparison.

Posted by: jjdcoach at November 07, 2012 03:11 PM (EC1Pt)

806 #665 Take a hard look at the Governor of Nevada, a Republican Hispanic. I know nothing about him other than he went to law school with a co-worker. My co-worker liked him back then.

Posted by: the other coyote at November 07, 2012 03:17 PM (yK44T)

807
Are we sure there were 3 million (13 million?) fewer voters this election. Ex. 1. On another blog a commenter said that Texas was supposedly down 10% in voters. The commenter said that every polling station in Texas was crammed with voters. Ex. 2. Mia Love, Utah, was up 15% in the polls just before the election and then lost? There seem to be many examples like this. Then there is the accusation of algorithm fudging in voting machines.
Nevertheless, a loss is a loss and I agree with every one of Ace's regrets re Romney. Until a Republican runs a real, honest, and tough campaign, we cannot know that "nothing" would have worked.
Now the real problem is the growth of this particular union-Dem Party-Fed Gov alliance. How to limit its growth until 2014. And stop sneering at "takers" and stop righteously demonizing (strictly controlled and limited) abortion. Or demographics say that Republicans are finished with "moderates" (not independents) and "women". What is the percentage of "white people" you will need in that event?

Posted by: pyromancer76 at November 07, 2012 03:17 PM (i0aYq)

808 >>>I agree with Ace on abortion. Romney should have stated point blank he wasn't going to change anything,

I didn't say that. So you're not really agreeing with me.

I think a pro-life party has to be pro-life. I'm NOT pro-life, but I understand that's what the party is.

But no abortion even in the case of a knifepoint rape? That turns pro-life from an issue I'm not on board with, but will live with, because it's important to another segment of the coalition, into a position that 1 horrifies me and 2 loses me elections.


Posted by: ace at November 07, 2012 03:19 PM (LCRYB)

809 @805 jjdcoach,

I hate to be a bear of bad news. If you are counting on US becoming EU and being simply mediocre you are for disappointment. Neither you, nor ACE nor I nor anyone else will be left alone. You simply will not be able to live as you have. I unfortunately know this as someone who grew up in ex-USSR and knows it's history and methods.

From the Christian prospective, that is also wrong (I am not putting you on the spot, I also used to think the same way as you). What is the Great Commandment? It is not suspended. We have become LUKEWARM and we are about to be spit out of Christ's mouth, unless we do what we are commanded to do. The country may or may not survive, but if it does it will be ONLY because we 'seek the Kingdom of God first and everything else [the moral foundation that is needed here] will be added unto you'.

You and I have only two options here.

Posted by: Comrade J at November 07, 2012 03:25 PM (T7lSs)

810 If conservatives take these 10 Ace "lessons" as gospel, the Republican party's not only going down lower and faster, it'll die.

Posted by: Rex the Wonder God at November 07, 2012 03:37 PM (21TJo)

811 So Rex @ 810, what do you propose otherwise. Please enlighten us with your piercing wisdom.

Posted by: Motorhead at November 07, 2012 03:40 PM (qAMin)

812 ACE,

Question on abortion for you. I kind of I understand your point about knifepoint rape. But not fully, hence the question.

Let's say there are two people handcuffed to each other. One of them, a woman, is raped. So the other is in effect a witness of the whole horror Both of them are left handcuffed for 9 months. Wherever they go, they must go together, with the witness constantly reminding the woman about the horror by simply being with her all the time.

The woman is given a choice:
A. you stay with the witness for 9 months and then can separate.
B. you are given a knife and can kill the witness and you'll be uncuffed.
C. we can kill the witness for you and you'll also be uncuffed.

-What should she do?
-Does the horror perpetrated on her, give her a right to murder the witness of the horror. [thus committing even a greater crime, as I hope you would agree that a murder is worse than a rape].

Posted by: Comrade J at November 07, 2012 03:45 PM (T7lSs)

813 "...we have to get the Republican percentates of the vote up for Hispanic, Asian (and African American vote). Frankly we don't even need to win those demographics -- just cut into the Democrats lead in a meaningful way. I realize that is a nice goal -- and I am not quite sure how to achieve it, but we need to start putting some thought into it."
Posted by: nc at November 07, 2012 01:56 PM (Cxl7g)

I do know how. Explain how conservatism can help THEIR lives.

For example, start by targeting Black, Latino, and Asian men.

Many are in the inner-city (as I am). If property values a cratering due to crime (and they do), appeal to those men.

There house or business is probably their major possession. Men, unlike some liberal women, are going to realize these criminals destroying their investment are goblins...not "victims of society".

Get to 20% of the Black vote while keeping the White Base and you can beat any Democrat. Literally any one of them.

Problem is...for this strategy to work, you actually have to keep your campaign promises.

And what politician has ever done that, D or R. Yeah, I know some have...but that only goes to show the exception proves the rule.

Posted by: trickamsterdam at November 07, 2012 03:53 PM (uTBHY)

814 812
You left out:

E. What the Hell are you talking about?

Posted by: Motorhead at November 07, 2012 03:56 PM (qAMin)

815 Ace,

Good comments, thought-provoking as usual. Look, I am ardently pro-life and think there's no way you build a winning national coalition in support of low-tax, low-regulation free market economics without the support of the prolife movement. Prolifers were/are a critical component of the original Reagan coalition and are essential to GOP dominance of the reddest of the states. I also recognize that you aren't pushing for prolifers to be banished from the party.

I think Akin and Mourdock are a sign of a certain kind of laziness that has set in among prolifers in which they've lost sight of the need to persuade and to make a strong prolife stance seem **reasonable** to people who are in the middle on the issue, or even those who disagree. There's a tendency to talk defend anti-abortionism in the language of evangelical christianity despite the fact that most voters aren't evangelical christians nor do they automatically buy into related baseline assumptions. Bush's 'Culture of Life' language was, as you pointed out, in some ways a dodge, but it was all about dressing the prolife position in the language of middle-class reasonableness and ersatz spirituality that is particularly popular among suburbanites.

I think that one thing you missed is that TWITTER in particular has been a powerful game-changer for the libs. Conservatives are very active on twitter, but they are not listened to, whereas quite left-wing liberals are actually followed and quoted on TWITTER by the media. Moreover, the libs have been brilliant at using twitter to drive media coverage and narratives. Some limp-dicked faux-con tells a stupid racial joke at the water cooler at work? Liberals will have it trending on twitter within the hour.

Posted by: Robert_Paulson at November 07, 2012 04:04 PM (9gYVE)

816 They should have spent 50 million on ads targeting issues of Latino voters and gotten a bunch of Latino celebrities. Clearly...they had NO Latino consultants.... ignorance is bliss.

at the barest of things, Romney should have pushed back on the self deportation thing... craft a message man! Call out Obama for forcibly detaining immigrants like animals and brutally deporting them just south of the border.... Its.NOT.THAT.HARD...

Posted by: ROIGuy at November 07, 2012 04:07 PM (7YnaR)

817 Hi Ace,

Full Disclosure: Indian Here.

I think one of the miscues by Romney was he had decided to run as a manager, Mr Fix-It guy to fix the economics. But attacks on his work during Bain unnerved him, he perhaps thought his work there was too complicated to explain, he was nervous about having to explain downsizing to public, end result he was left with nothing to showcase his (admittedly impressive) managerial skills.

Posted by: Gaurav at November 07, 2012 04:08 PM (yHuyz)

818 By the way, it is possible for the libs to go to far with their "abortion a day, to keep the doctor away" nonsense. A consistent 45% of the public describes itself as pro-life (and more are willing to support certain restrictions). It could easily boomerang on them.

Posted by: Robert_Paulson at November 07, 2012 04:08 PM (9gYVE)

819 "It could easily boomerang on them."

Not if people continually fall into the Akin trap and say something patently absurd every opportunity.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 04:10 PM (moRRg)

820 WHITE HOUSE INSIDER: “SHUT UP. MOVE ON…OR NOT.”
by Ulsterman on November 7, 2012 with 51 Comments in News
After repeated requests for feedback, we finally hear back from the D.C. political operative who just days ago was supremely confident Barack Obama would be defeated in the 2012 Election. They were proven wrong yesterday. Very wrong. Barack Obama remains president. So what now?

(The Jarrett-Obama Agenda received four more years last night. Will the promises of ”revenge” now begin?)
____________________________________
WHI: Please stop with the messaging. I’m going over the #s. State by state. County by county. Had all of that lined up a week ago and it was looking so good for us. Last night not adding up. A major shift in the final hours or some serious anomalies in the actual vote counts. Voter turn out was depressed for both sides. All prior evidence states otherwise. How is that possible? Don’t know. At this point not worth discussing because I don’t have an answer for you so don’t ask. This is f-cking Venezuela we got here.
Is what it is for now though. Shut up. Move on.
You want me to say I was wrong? Fine. I was wrong. But I said they could steal it. And that is what might have happened. But to pull that off in so many states, would mean they got help. Talking from both sides here. Get it? Republicans. And that is scary. If we are that far gone, what the hell are we to do about that? We need a major reset in America if that is the case. We don’t f-cking deserve America anymore. When those Senators dropped Benghazi I got real worried real fast. It felt like a deal had been made. And the CBS bullsh-t. Talk about a media scandal of epic f-cking proportions. But nobody is pushing it. Like I told you. They buried it. Both sides. Gone. I’ll say it again. BOTH SIDES. Get it? I know localized fraud. But a multiple state millions of votes level of fraud? To pull that off would be incredibly risky and would require help from the apparent opposition side. And I don’t really want to go there right now. Too scary.
Read more in News
« Fewer Voters In 2012 Than 2008 – Or 2004????MILITARY INSIDER: “Watergate Him” »
Another thing. They will use this to further divide the conservatives. Stir them up. Get the finger pointing at an all time high. Divide them up even more. Easy pickings then. You might be getting taste of that already. Keep your head up.
Won’t sugar coat the real issue here though. America is in big f-cking trouble here. Jarrett said they have two judges ready and waiting. They want to own the Court. Congress really does become moot at that point. More than it already is. Hell, if elections are moot, why not the Court too?
Give me 24 more to digest all of this. I’m waiting for feedback from others. Sure they are just as stunned as me. Virginia? That was +3 for us. Easy. When that got jammed up last night I knew something was up. And everybody was saying “What is going on?” Everybody. I’m hearing something like 8 million fewer votes. And we don’t win with those #s? That means no Republican pick ups? How is that possible? Don’t know. Doesn’t make any sense. There is no previous election to hold 2012 up against in comparison. I have never experienced an election night roll out like what happened last night. Never.
Give me 24.
Maybe we shut this down. Permanent or temporary I don’t know yet.
I’ll echo the Old Man. I’m sorry too. Really believed we had this one.
To give you a taste of what I’m doing now I’ll share this with you. I’m using a Florida outcome in a specific district to try and wrap my head around all of this. Three counties. Martin, St. Lucie, and Palm Beach. Martin is controlled by Republicans and the turnout #s match what all our national trending showed. Big enthusiasm for the Republican candidate. Republican vote dominated Martin County. St. Lucie and Palm Beach are the real tests and is where the #s really start to signal something is wrong. St. Lucie leans Democrat. Palm Beach is Dem dominated. St. Lucie showed marginally less votes for Democrats % wise. Republicans enjoyed some cross-over which is what all the national models were indicating. In Palm Beach County which is Dem. dominated, voter turnout was even more depressed than prior elections, especially for the Democrats. But the Democrats won the district. The Republicans lost. Basically, the Democrat-dominated counties seem to be where some very odd #s came back. And if this is the model they utilized last night, they had to have done it in multiple counties for every swing state. That kind of coordination would be huge. And it would need the help of operatives from the other side. So I’m sitting here trying to figure out if the #s represent real voter outcome, which means almost all our internals were way the f-ck off, or how they pulled off fraud. That will take time. It won’t matter for this election, but it will make us better prepared for the next one. Either way, I got to focus and make calls, and try to figure this sh-t out.
Or not.

-INSIDER

Posted by: mrks at November 07, 2012 04:10 PM (15/2r)

821
I hope this doesn't sound disrespectful, but hindsight is 20/20, and if you have 10 reasons for something happeningall that shows is that you don't have any idea why it happened.

I'm still very concerned about how we're hearing reports that there was record turnout, while at the same time we lost because of low turnout. It is also extremely suspicious that we lost every single competitive Senate race except one. The odds of that happening without "help" seem to be pretty remote. I don't want to go fishing for conspiracy theories, but there are some things that need to be explained before we start asking ourselves what we did wrong.

Posted by: Optimizer at November 07, 2012 04:47 PM (Mxt9o)

822 The explanation is simple: People didn't actually go vote like we thought they would. End of conspiracy theories. Obama ran a dirty, nasty campaign and turned voters out, then get a lucky distraction at the last minute to ensure people didn't think too much about it.

Luck combined with Republicans continuing to think ideas can win it for them.

Posted by: Matt S. at November 07, 2012 04:56 PM (moRRg)

823 You can't find room in a top ten list for "let Detroit go bankrupt"? It's Number One, with a bullet.
Rape is #2.
Voting demographics AND popular sentiment moving away from the hard core R positions is #3
UBL is on the list
stock market tanked today, but its up 90% in the O first term.
JT

Posted by: upyerstbaggers at November 07, 2012 05:17 PM (P9HMq)

824 ...and the number 1 reason Romney lost that noone wants to talk about...the reason he got fewer votes than McCain despite being a better candidate in every way?

At many voting machines, a vote for Romney was a vote for Obama, and most voters are too dumb or busy to notice, especially having waited in line for hours.

Just saying.

Posted by: Incognito at November 07, 2012 05:18 PM (5Jl+9)

825 @794 Doesn't Perry fit the description? Granted, I agreed with Ace's view that Perry's debate shortcomings were fixable.

Posted by: Kiana at November 07, 2012 05:27 PM (w41GQ)

826 Amazing, Ace.

You managed to do a top 10 list, without addressing the single biggest reason why, despite the GOP base being *generally* energized, Romney got less votes than McCain or Bush.

>>> Romney was mormon, this turned off a lot of evangelicals and hispanics. My grandparents in CO who are hispanic didnt vote for him cause he is a mormon
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at November 07, 2012 12:40 PM

...

>>> Not shocked. My buddy is really conservative and said he wasn't voting for Romney because he was Mormon. Apparently, believing a different sect is a major fucking problem for those social cons, but thinking government should be your nanny?? No fucking problem with that!
Posted by: Zac at November 07, 2012 12:42 PM

...

>>> 2.5 million less votes than McCain! The dirty secret is that a significant number of people aint gonna vote for some Mormon cult member and his magic shorts.
Posted by: rib at November 07, 2012 12:45 PM

...

>>> Naturally, you ignore the Mormon elephant in the room.
Posted by: Gerry at November 07, 2012 12:46 PM

...

>>> This wa all about turnout. Our people didn't turn out. I am fucking baffled as to why they didn't but they didn't. Only idea I have is that Christians didn't want to vote for a Mormon, but I'm reaching there.
Posted by: Big T Party at November 07, 2012 01:03 PM

...

>>> We do need to find out why so many Rs stayed home. Was it a bad turnout effort? Was it because Romney is a Mormon? Did the evangelicals not show up? Was it the fact that both R/R were Yankees? I think there was not much gender gap at all. In other words, it appears Romney may not have appealed to blue collar males.

Don't know the answer. But that needs to be the first order of business. Find out why he lost so many McCain voters.
Posted by: Spike at November 07, 2012 01:04 PM

...

>>> I don't think that's a reach.

I base my opinion on comments from a couple of overly zealous "real Christian" sisters-in-law.
Posted by: jwb7605 at November 07, 2012 01:06 PM

...

>>> The social cons demand abortion be at the front and center. Fine, but then why didn't you show up at the polls? Because Romney was a Mormon? Fuck you. Watch Obama stack the Supreme Court with three more liberals you dumbasses and keep Roe V Wade the law of the land.
Posted by: Zac at November 07, 2012 01:07 PM

...

>>> I think the Mormon issue is being underplayed today.

Hard to explain the turnout any other way.

Just my (depressed) opinion.
Posted by: nhwingnut at November 07, 2012 01:40 PM

...

>>> Turnout. Turnout. Turnout. Turnout. Turnout. Turnout. Turnout.

Posted by: Big T Party at November 07, 2012 01:08 PM

>>> Since the inevitable circular firing squad is, well, inevitable, I'll go ahead and call some spades.

In '04 Republicans and Democrats matched each other exactly. That only was 8 years ago. Obviously if the D vs. R turnout last night was equal Romney would have won in a rout. Hell, if the split was "only" D + 3 Romney today would be the president-elect.

How could '12 have been a D + 6 election?

Let's go back to '04. Who surprisingly voted en masse that year? Evangelical Protestants. So much so the Democrat machine literally was shocked and flabbergasted, sort of how like we are today. Evangelicals in '04 voted in huge numbers. The Republican won. Despite having to overcome the media, the unions, the academe, etc.

What was the giant elephant in the room about this election cycle? Romney is a Mormon.

I'd be willing to bet a large sum of money that Obama last evening was elected by the margin of evangelicals who stayed home and didn't vote specifically because of Romney's Mormonism. If that's the case they've gone ahead and destroyed an entire (secular) country on the basis of their sectarianism. Irony.
Posted by: Tsar Nicholas II at November 07, 2012

-------

I predicted this might happen during the primaries. I fact, I used the word "unelectable" to describe both Romney and Huntsman for this reason.

I cited articles by Jonathan Last and William Jacobson for my reasons. These aren't dumb people.

Well, it looks like what we all feared might come to pass -- some Christians who don't like Mormons staying home -- came to pass.

Romney is a great guy and this isn't his fault. It isn't the fault of the majority of GOP-supporting Christians who voted for him.

But how did this not make your top 10 list, ace?

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 07, 2012 05:40 PM (SKX2R)

827 >>> I cited articles by Jonathan Last and William Jacobson for my reasons.

To clarify, it was also my idea independently, but I cited some smart thinkers to show that I wasn't alone in my conclusions, and also to add the benefit of their analysis.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 07, 2012 05:44 PM (SKX2R)

828 Also, this:

>>> Exit polls.

Romney won the white vote by

59%

Won white women by 56%

Won the white youth vote by 51%

Won the Independent vote by a 5% margin.

It looks like the Evangelical vote was not there.
Posted by: The Dow at November 07, 2012 12:58 PM

---

It sucks, but I think "The Dow" and others above nailed it.

Using my previous nickname before I adopted this better one, I predicted this is exactly what would happen during the primaries.

http://minx.cc/?blog=86&post=324619#c16710867

It sucks that I was probably right. I said then I hope I was wrong.

Alas a lot of the things I hope are wrong are in fact not wrong.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 07, 2012 05:48 PM (SKX2R)

829 Allahpundit is one of the smartest people out there, and this is his take on it, looking at exit polls:

One question I’m seeing in the comments is, “Did evangelicals turn out for Romney”? Yep, looks that way. Turnout among Protestants generally dropped slightly from 2008 (54% to 53%) but Romney’s share of the vote increased from 54% to 57%. Among white evangelicals specifically, turnout was steady at 26% of the electorate from four years ago and Romney took 78% of the vote compared to just 74% for McCain. If you’d rather slice the data by how often people go to church, the number who attend at least weekly rose from 39% in 2008 to 42% this time. McCain won 55% of that group. Romney won 59%. He improved on McCain’s numbers among Jewish voters too, from 21% of the vote in 2008 to 30% this time (or maybe more), the highest take for a Republican since 1988. If there’s any religious group that underperformed for him, it’s Catholics. He did improve on McCain’s numbers — from 45% to 48% — but O still won a majority despite the abortion-rights jamboree at the convention and the contraception mandate. Catholic turnout was down two points this time, however.

The interest in the comments in evangelicals, I think, is due to people looking at Romney’s popular vote total and wondering where all the votes went. McCain won just shy of 60 million votes in 2008. As I’m writing this, Politico’s popular vote tracker has Romney at 57.6 million. Where’d all the votes go? Possible answer: Nowhere. They’re out there, they just haven’t been counted yet, says John Podhoretz
http://goo.gl/Gaabn

Podhoretz is also someone whose opinion I value.

I think it was and is a valid hypothesis to look at, but the tale must be told by the numbers.

Posted by: Samwise Gamgee the 3rd at November 07, 2012 07:38 PM (SKX2R)

830 Again this site, its "owner" Ace and everyone bloviating on AoSHQ miss the obvious.
Romney lost his election for one, and only oneelemental reason:
He refused to steal it.
He failed his backers, his party, every volunteer, us, himself and the country.

Posted by: LiveFromRussianHill at November 07, 2012 09:54 PM (3c1P1)

831 I have an alternate theory for why Romney essentially abandoned the "act of terror" line - it wasn't a good risk. I do think that he should have hit way harder on tons of other stuff, but that's not a good thing to focus on. The issue is not a slam dunk, to begin with. You're arguing that a possibly general reference to "acts of terror" doesn't count as calling the thing an act of terror. That's not exactly the cleanest line of attack. From there, there's two possibilities. If the attack doesn't stick, then Mitt Romney looks like a goof. And if it DOES stick, then so what? Obama didn't call something an act of terror? People who are convinced that Obama is a secret socialist Muslim are going to get angry about that, but those people are already in the tank. It's not like, say, tanking the economy or engaging in dubious-at-best military action or any of the other things that Romney should have hit Obama for because unlike those things, "Obama: Did he use a particular term to refer to this act of terror?" is not actually important.

That's the definition of a bad risk. Crummy upside, not-so-great chance of upside, significant downside. Once the nation decided that the general reference counted, further pursuing the line is just a bad play.

Posted by: Daila at November 07, 2012 10:56 PM (vs1IF)

832
"That they would naturally fall to the normal human state of envy".
I find that comment offensive, stupid, ignorant and racist. Assuming that poor americans will envy and vote against the richis like romney trashing the 47%. In fact despite all the stupidities done and saidby romney that you just mentioned the presidentialrace was extremely tight. Do you even know that George Washington, Roosevelt, Andrew Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, James Madinson and kennedy were allmulti-millionaires?


Posted by: CHARLES at November 07, 2012 11:26 PM (Al2Qx)

833
You forgot to mention probably the main reason why romney lost and here it is:
Lack of charisma.
You can compare Bill Clinton and Romney to see the difference between a charismatic leader and a wanna be leaderwith low self confidence, non-inspirational, poorly articulated, non-supportive andnarrow minded like Romney.

Posted by: charles at November 07, 2012 11:55 PM (Al2Qx)

834 11. Nominee Romney was the verifiable opposite of Governor Romney, and Nominee Romney claimed that wasn't true. Bear in mind how many people "met Romney for the first time" after the convention. That means they didn't find out he was pro-choice as governor, or championed mandatory insurance exchanges, or bragged about getting federal pork, until after the convention. His campaign never had a good answer for that. Their answer, to Republicans, tended to be "shut up, you want Obama to win?" clearly enough of a minority didn't mind that so much.

12. Romney didn't win the nomination by destroying his primary challengers and winning delegates. Romney won by letting the challengers run out of money and suspend before he got his delegate majority. This is significant for two reasons. First, I think it depressed Republican turnout. Not a lot, but Romney didn't lose by a lot either. Secondly and more importantly, the deep pockets that pushed Romney forward do not admit this was any kind of mistake. They are doubling down. They insist that Romney was an awesome messenger, so, the problem must lie in the content of the Republican message. They are prepared to make the problem worse.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at November 08, 2012 09:22 AM (GHjOO)

835 Could Romney have spent his own campaign money to keep Santorum and Paul and Perry onstage longer?

"I paid for this microphone, Mr. Breen!"

Posted by: Chris Balsz at November 08, 2012 09:25 AM (GHjOO)

836 The two most important reasons Mitt lost:
Mitt Romney, though a decent person, ran a handicapped campaign. He did not rally the TEA party, which is wherethe Conservative energy is.
Also, I really like Paul Ryan, but as a running mate, he could not deliver a single vote that Romney would not have gotten on his own. Romney needed a Condi Rice, Hermain Cain, Marc Rubio or even Sarah Palin (or, countless others). It was naive (to the point of hubris) to think that America would vote for two econ majors - even if that is what America needed.
Mitt thought he could wage an economic/political battle, but the hearts and minds are won in the cultural trenches. If we are going to cede every cultural battle to the Liberals, then we better get used to losing.

Posted by: Bruce Linder at November 08, 2012 03:58 PM (vGILV)

837 I've thhought long and hard about #8, This is one of the democrats surest areas to gain points against us. By staking out such an absolute postion on this, and framing it in a godly view Repulicans lose. They need to focus much more on ending Surgical abortion. By highlightinghow barbaric the act is, drawing parallels with trepanning, and blood letting. pointing out how many more effective ways there are to control reproduction.

Posted by: Reuben at November 08, 2012 07:28 PM (6pvJi)

838 Everyone's a genius the day after election results.

Posted by: Ava at November 08, 2012 11:21 PM (jqUo7)

839 How could Mitt lose? He refused to release more than two years of tax returns, got caught insulting 47% of the public, and wanted to cut the tax rate of the billionaires to !%. Boggles the mind how he could lose.

Posted by: chippy at November 12, 2012 10:40 PM (S8LWE)

840 This is an interesting analysis of the recent United States election, followed by many thought-provoking comments. I have one question and that is regarding comment #29. Please forgive my lack of familiarity with the term, but could someone please tell me what JEF means? I have not seen this before. Thank you, and may God bless your great nation.

Posted by: Nils at December 05, 2012 05:06 PM (jqLx3)






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Leather-Clad Biker Freaks Terrorize Australian Town
When Clinton Was President, Torture Was Cool
What Wonkette Means When She Explains What Tina Brown Means
Wonkette's Stand-Up Act
Wankette HQ Gay-Rumors Du Jour
Here's What's Bugging Me: Goose and Slider
My Own Micah Wright Style Confession of Dishonesty
Outraged "Conservatives" React to the FMA
An On-Line Impression of Dennis Miller Having Sex with a Kodiak Bear
The Story the Rightwing Media Refuses to Report!
Our Lunch with David "Glengarry Glen Ross" Mamet
The House of Love: Paul Krugman
A Michael Moore Mystery (TM)
The Dowd-O-Matic!
Liberal Consistency and Other Myths
Kepler's Laws of Liberal Media Bias
John Kerry-- The Splunge! Candidate
"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat