Foreign Policy President: If Bin Ladin Had Been Captured Alive, Obama & Holder Planned To Try Him... In Civilian Court

Preen.

ccording to Bowden in the story—in November’s Vanity Fair—in the unlikely event that bin Laden surrendered, Obama saw an opportunity to resurrect the idea of a criminal trial, which Attorney General Eric Holder had planned for Khalid Sheikh Mohammed. This time, the president tells Bowden, he was prepared to bring bin Laden back and put him on trial in a federal court. “We worked through the legal and political issues that would have been involved, and Congress and the desire to send him to Guantánamo, and to not try him, and Article III.” Obama continues: “I mean, we had worked through a whole bunch of those scenarios. But, frankly, my belief was if we had captured him, that I would be in a pretty strong position, politically, here, to argue that displaying due process and rule of law would be our best weapon against al-Qaeda, in preventing him from appearing as a martyr.”

Posted by: Ace at 01:41 PM



Comments

1 Well it would be using TV Law Show rules.

Posted by: wooga at October 03, 2012 01:42 PM (vjyZP)

2 I am so sick and tired of the lies.

Posted by: Bart who lurks with SMOD 2012, master of his domain at October 03, 2012 01:42 PM (he2LC)

3 11 dimensional chess baby

Posted by: Barky at October 03, 2012 01:43 PM (bj+Nc)

4 Only one question: what are the drinking rules for tonight's debate?

Posted by: EXILE at October 03, 2012 01:43 PM (GGCsk)

5 Obama.... 100% ass sucking douchebag 100% of the time.

Posted by: Berserker at October 03, 2012 01:43 PM (FMbng)

6 If the Islamotards aren't capable of grasping the American notion of free speech, what makes anyone think they could grasp the American notion of judicial due process?

Posted by: wooga at October 03, 2012 01:43 PM (vjyZP)

7 Obama continues: “I mean, we had worked through a whole bunch of those
scenarios. But, frankly, my belief was if we had captured him, that I
would be in a pretty strong position, politically, here, to argue that
displaying due process and rule of law would be our best weapon against
al-Qaeda, in preventing him from appearing as a martyr.”




And found him not guilty and freed him and Mumia to boot

Posted by: TheQuietMan at October 03, 2012 01:44 PM (1Jaio)

8 And if you disagree with my chocolate baby, you're ugly!

Posted by: Annie Althouse at October 03, 2012 01:44 PM (N/1Dm)

9 TOP. MEN.

Posted by: LizLem at October 03, 2012 01:44 PM (8wqqE)

10 Would Eric Holder have acted as Osama's Lawyer? They're on the same side, after all.......

Posted by: dfbaskwill at October 03, 2012 01:44 PM (71LDo)

11 By the way, read Act of Valor.

There was very little chance that OBL was coming back on the return trip.

Posted by: EXILE at October 03, 2012 01:44 PM (GGCsk)

12
and where and how, Professor Obama, would you find a jury of Osama bin Laden's peers?

Posted by: Soothsayer at October 03, 2012 01:44 PM (jUytm)

13 @6 No no, you don't get it. It's OBAMA explaining it. They'll understand when HE explains it.

Posted by: DarrenODaly at October 03, 2012 01:45 PM (wDAwT)

14

Rule of law only when it suits him.

It's easy for him to "talk." Or, project what he "would have done."

This would not match the reality at the time.



Posted by: O'Fraud at October 03, 2012 01:45 PM (LpQbZ)

15 But, frankly, my belief was if we had captured him, that I would be in a pretty strong position, politically, here, to argue that displaying due process and rule of law would be our best weapon against al-Qaeda, in preventing him from appearing as a martyr

Like the muslims would give a shit about what kind of trial he had? This jackass is so fucking stupid I think he's one of the trolls here.

Posted by: buzzion - Free Kratos at October 03, 2012 01:45 PM (GULKT)

16 The JEF would have had him over for tea and biscuits, and maybe even a ceremonial goat shaggin. Who is trying to kid.

Posted by: sTevo at October 03, 2012 01:45 PM (kN+F7)

17 [Facepalm]

Posted by: joncelli at October 03, 2012 01:45 PM (RD7QR)

18 Naturally they would have, and any defense attorney worth his salt would have had Bin Laden walk as well.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at October 03, 2012 01:45 PM (r4wIV)

19 But according to the book by the Seal member, they just immediately shot him. Doesn't sound like they had a "take him alive" order, According to his account there wasn't too much resistance. No wife as a human shield like came out in the WH story. Obama trying to look like a big man again?

Posted by: Hello, it's just me Donna at October 03, 2012 01:45 PM (9+ccr)

20 TFG!

Posted by: Hrothgar (Dagny Aficionado ) at October 03, 2012 01:45 PM (Cnqmv)

21 Oh that would have been a major clusterfuck. Imagine a superbowl with replacement refs and you might have an idea of how bad that would have been.

Posted by: Adam at October 03, 2012 01:46 PM (/YJYi)

22 I think Obama WOULD HAVE cured the debt problem...if he only passed a budget.

Posted by: EXILE at October 03, 2012 01:46 PM (GGCsk)

23 This is to shore up his leftwing wacko base. The "military" killed him, but Bammy would have followed the UN-crowd protocal and had a trial instead.

Posted by: Zharkov at October 03, 2012 01:46 PM (gdc0a)

24 4
Only one question: what are the drinking rules for tonight's debate?


Posted by: EXILE at October 03, 2012 01:43 PM (GGCsk)

Do as much of it as possible.

Posted by: joncelli at October 03, 2012 01:46 PM (RD7QR)

25 TFG is a SCOAMT!

Posted by: Hrothgar (Dagny Aficionado ) at October 03, 2012 01:46 PM (Cnqmv)

26 Oh f*ck him!


I'm just going to keep saying that until the election.....

Posted by: Tami at October 03, 2012 01:47 PM (X6akg)

27 Manhattan Criminal Court Part Two is now in session.
The Honorable Judge Harold T. Stone....presiding.

[Judge walks in, wearing clown nose and rainbow wig]

Posted by: Bull Shannon at October 03, 2012 01:47 PM (/kI1Q)

28 I don't cotton to this 'ccording.'

No siree, bob.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at October 03, 2012 01:47 PM (vY2x+)

29 The picture with the story. Barry is pointing and Biden is right next to him. I'm surprised that Joey didn't try to pull his finger

Posted by: TheQuietMan at October 03, 2012 01:47 PM (1Jaio)

30 23
This is to shore up his leftwing wacko base. The "military" killed him,
but Bammy would have followed the UN-crowd protocal and had a trial
instead.

Posted by: Zharkov at October 03, 2012 01:46 PM (gdc0a)

But I think they had a shoot to kill order.

Posted by: Hello, it's just me Donna at October 03, 2012 01:47 PM (9+ccr)

31 If the Islamotards aren't capable of grasping the American notion of free speech, what makes anyone think they could grasp the American notion of judicial due process?

Oh, they understand it just fine. It's just that they don't like either concept.

Posted by: Alex at October 03, 2012 01:47 PM (3x3F6)

32 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable tyrant.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at October 03, 2012 01:48 PM (8y9MW)

33 This dude, Barack. He's like, stupid and shit, right? I mean, profoundly fucking dumb. And all his friends are equally as mothbreathingly knuckledragging dimwitted fucksticks as he, right?

Remind me again who the fucking smart one is? Biden or this stumbling bumblefuck?

Posted by: Inspector Asshole at October 03, 2012 01:48 PM (SgVM9)

34 From Chris Stevens point of view, OSL and BHO are on the same side.

Posted by: sTevo at October 03, 2012 01:49 PM (kN+F7)

35 Complete with show trials.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at October 03, 2012 01:49 PM (8y9MW)

36 To be perfectly fair, the trial would have to have been at the Hague under UN protocols! There is no justice in the AmeriKKKan justice system.

Posted by: Hrothgar (Dagny Aficionado ) at October 03, 2012 01:49 PM (Cnqmv)

37 President Gutsy-Call gaming the scenarios for the American people!

Posted by: Fritz at October 03, 2012 01:49 PM (/ZZCn)

38 Just when you think the worm can't get any wormier.

Hey, Bammy! If you would have preferred to take him alive (meaning that killing him was Plan B), then why were you in such a breathless hurry to announce his death to the world when it happened? Huh? In all your infinite, foreign policy wisdom, wouldn't you have taken a moment to reflect and say, "Gosh, that would have been a good get for our side. well, at least we've got some good intel we can comb through. I'll give our experts some time to go through the information we found, and then I'll announce his death to the country so that our enemies will know we mean business."

What did you do instead? You got on the horn in the middle of the night to tell the world that you'd killed bin Laden and taken his compound, thereby telling the whole al Qaeda network that any intel bin Laden may have been privy to was now in play and should be scrapped.

Just shut the fuck up, you idiot Preezy. Close your g-ddamned purple yap for ten fucking minutes and maybe you won't embarrass yourself so much.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter at October 03, 2012 01:49 PM (4df7R)

39 I can see the civilian trial now. Muzzies all over the world rioting because it would be an offense to Islam.

And then, SCOAMF releases Bin Laden with a stern warning.

Posted by: J.J. Sefton at October 03, 2012 01:49 PM (+tqYo)

40 The only way I would have liked to see binladen in a courtroom is if he was tied to the witness stand , and the whole thing lasting no more than the 15 seconds needed for the judge to say yeah douchbag, you're guilty, and then 5 marines standing up and emptying full mags into that piece of shit...on live on TV.

Posted by: Berserker at October 03, 2012 01:49 PM (FMbng)

41 Thank God the SEALs shot that sonofabitch!

Posted by: Honey Badger at October 03, 2012 01:49 PM (GvYeG)

42 Article: “It was a matter of taking one last breath and just making sure, asking is there something that I haven’t thought of?” Obama tells Bowden of the last moments before the plan was carried out.

=============

Did he hold his breath through the entire operation?

Posted by: edj at October 03, 2012 01:50 PM (+QKfp)

43

Seems to me he ain't much of a martyr, now, having been dumped in the sea.

The muzzies need a bloody body (or picture of one) to parade around for that

Posted by: imp at October 03, 2012 01:50 PM (UaxA0)

44
What??

Posted by: TFG at October 03, 2012 01:50 PM (EZTwi)

45 Maybe if this Albert Quada guy hads a obama phone things may have been different you know. Thats why we needs in keep obama in presadant , you know .............

Posted by: The Obama Phone Vision of Lovelyness at October 03, 2012 01:51 PM (48wze)

46 4Only one question: what are the drinking rules for tonight's debate?
Posted by: EXILE at October 03, 2012 01:43 PM (GGCsk)
When Barry tells the truth, you can take a drink.

Posted by: Womens' Christian Temperance Union at October 03, 2012 01:51 PM (U+DUu)

47 Our best weapon against al-Qaeda is displaying due process and rule of law. Second best? A 5.56 pill to the dome.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at October 03, 2012 01:51 PM (+lsX1)

48 No wonder they shot him.

Posted by: tasker at October 03, 2012 01:51 PM (r2PLg)

49 Considering how good lawyers are at gumming up the works, I bet there would have been a Change of Venue motion to put the trial on at the Hague since no un-biased jury could be found in the US.

Circus! Get your legal circus right here! Barry Baily and Ringling Holder presents! The Trial of Osama bin Laden! Judge Judy will be presiding in the scenic city of the Hague.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 03, 2012 01:51 PM (UYZgt)

50 The Obergruppenführer speaks: http://is.gd/TbZpFT

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 53% of Likely U.S. Voters consider this election as a referendum on President Obama’s agenda. Only 25% regard it as more about Mitt Romney’s agenda, but nearly as many voters (21%) are undecided.

Posted by: toby928© for TB at October 03, 2012 01:51 PM (QupBk)

51
wouldn't the rule of law prohibit the government from sending navy seals to an allied country and capturing bin laden without that contries knowledge or permission? did barky work his way through that one?

Posted by: kj at October 03, 2012 01:52 PM (zYYbU)

52 [pulls coin out of Osama's ear]

Fifty dollar fine and time served!

[gavels]

Posted by: Judge Harold T. Stone at October 03, 2012 01:52 PM (/kI1Q)

53 Anyone here think that Moochelle would take a bullet for JugEars?

Posted by: Bart who lurks with SMOD 2012, master of his domain at October 03, 2012 01:52 PM (he2LC)

54 Yeah, this is horseshit. No way in the hell was OBL ever going to be taken alive unless it was to be kept completely secret. It doesn't even matter what TFG wanted.

Posted by: runninrebel at October 03, 2012 01:52 PM (N/1Dm)

55 I wonder if the military had gotten wind of this and gently suggested that the SEALs might want to consider the possibilities of what would happen if he made it to the US.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at October 03, 2012 01:52 PM (8y9MW)

56 But according to the book by the Seal member, they just immediately shot him. Doesn't sound like they had a "take him alive" order, According to his account there wasn't too much resistance. No wife as a human shield like came out in the WH story.

Hopefully the kill team decided on their own to apply Uncle Jimbo's hunting rules.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at October 03, 2012 01:52 PM (JxMoP)

57 Am I the only one of Insty's co-bloggers gobsmacked by this racist quoting of President Obama?

Posted by: Ann Althouse at October 03, 2012 01:52 PM (IoNBC)

58
If Osama would have been cought alive the correct procedure would have been. 1:Interogate him in a secret location 2:Kill him 3: leave his body in a compromising position with a goat.

I'm not running for pres and I approve this message

Posted by: Buzzsaw at October 03, 2012 01:52 PM (8wH5z)

59 Article: “It was a matter of taking one last breath and just making sure, asking is there something that I haven’t thought of?”

Should I have used the PW on that last approach shot?

Posted by: toby928© for TB at October 03, 2012 01:53 PM (QupBk)

60 If Obama thought that a fake film clip riles up the natives what would you think having Osama on trial would do?

Posted by: polynikes at October 03, 2012 01:53 PM (m2CN7)

61 A 5.56 pill to the dome.Posted by: Gristle Encased Head

Just one?

Posted by: required one-upsmanship on a smart mil blog at October 03, 2012 01:53 PM (vY2x+)

62 57
Am I the only one of Insty's co-bloggers gobsmacked by this racist quoting of President Obama?

Posted by: Ann Althouse at October 03, 2012 01:52 PM (IoNBC)

Yes. Now you can go back to pegging Trapper-Keeper.

Posted by: joncelli at October 03, 2012 01:53 PM (RD7QR)

63 Buzzsaw, compromising position with a dead dog.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 03, 2012 01:53 PM (UYZgt)

64 buzzsaw

you'd have my vote

Posted by: phoenixgirl, what did huma abedin know at October 03, 2012 01:54 PM (j1z2L)

65 Every time I'm convinced that the evidence of Obama's abject incompetence could not grow any higher, five more minutes pass and the latest idiocy is revealed.

Posted by: Natasha at October 03, 2012 01:54 PM (jU5uf)

66 what could go wrong?

Posted by: thunderb a conservative jew at October 03, 2012 01:54 PM (Dnbau)

67 No wife as a human shield like came out in the WH story. Obama trying to look like a big man again?

Positioning himself to look good for his future employers. Once he's out of office, Obama will try and finagle a sweetheart gig with the UN as the special envoy for somethingorother.

Posted by: Alex at October 03, 2012 01:54 PM (3x3F6)

68

Wow, a Night Court reference. That's not even on Netflix.

You're one old motherfucker, dude.

Just like me.

Posted by: imp at October 03, 2012 01:54 PM (UaxA0)

69 you forgot the pig fat lubricant though

Posted by: phoenixgirl, what did huma abedin know at October 03, 2012 01:54 PM (j1z2L)

70 Other than the government's word, I've seen no evidence that it WAS bin Laden killed in Abbottobad.

No photos, no DNA results.

Sure, we've heard from a Navy Seal that the target looked like bin Laden, although he appeared to be "much younger" than anticipated.

I've seen a tape released by CIA of bin Laden watching old clips of himself in his room in Abbottobad, but it was shot from behind. Never did get to see his face.

So I'm naturally suspicious when the government has "evidence" we are not allowed to see.

Posted by: Nukie at October 03, 2012 01:54 PM (aZrqG)

71 Heh. Glenn just smacked her down.

Posted by: runninrebel at October 03, 2012 01:55 PM (N/1Dm)

72 Only one question: what are the drinking rules for tonight's debate?


Posted by: EXILE at October 03, 2012 01:43 PM (GGCsk)

Start now and don't stop until the debate's over.

Posted by: GMan at October 03, 2012 01:55 PM (sxq57)

73 I wonder if the military had gotten wind of this and gently suggested that the SEALs might want to consider the possibilities of what would happen if he made it to the US.

I don't think there was any chance they were going to bring him back alive. Those guys are a heck of a lot smarter than the politicians who issue the orders.

Posted by: Ghost of Lee Atwater at October 03, 2012 01:55 PM (JxMoP)

74 Other than the government's word, I've seen no evidence that it WAS bin Laden killed in Abbottobad.

Didn't AQ confirm it, though? Not something they would do lightly.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at October 03, 2012 01:55 PM (8y9MW)

75 Wait.... was Barry just saying he CARED about the Rule of Law????

/cleans out his ears....

Posted by: Romeo13 at October 03, 2012 01:56 PM (lZBBB)

76 What kind of grown man who wants to be taken seriously uses the phrase "a whole bunch"?

Posted by: Natasha at October 03, 2012 01:56 PM (jU5uf)

77 57 Am I the only one of Insty's co-bloggers gobsmacked by this racist quoting of President Obama?

You must handle the issue of Vanity Fair with Obama's words in it only while wearing clean gloves. To do otherwise is the political equivalent of flushing a Koran down a toilet. Ann Althouse told me so from behind her hijab.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows that poor people don't know how to show up for work at October 03, 2012 01:56 PM (AZGON)

78 If he actually believes what he was saying, then he is even more stupid and more naive than I thought.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at October 03, 2012 01:56 PM (PHb2k)

79 30 23 This is to shore up his leftwing wacko base. The "military" killed him, but Bammy would have followed the UN-crowd protocal and had a trial instead. Posted by: Zharkov at October 03, 2012 01:46 PM (gdc0a) But I think they had a shoot to kill order.
Yes, but them saying this now is BS for his base to hear. They don't care about the details/facts. Just what he says now.

Posted by: Zharkov at October 03, 2012 01:56 PM (gdc0a)

80
61 A 5.56 pill to the dome.Posted by: Gristle Encased HeadJust one?
Posted by: required one-upsmanship on a smart mil blog at October 03, 2012 01:53 PM (vY2x+)


They're SEALs. They only need one.

Posted by: buzzion - Free Kratos at October 03, 2012 01:56 PM (GULKT)

81
Hey Jugears, the crazed Muzzies would view him as a martyr in any case, numbnuts, just as they do KSM.

And forget getting any brownie points for "due process," since you and the Chinless Wonder already said that you'd convict Osama, and even if you didn't, you wouldn't let him go. Reflect for a moment on how feral Third World assholes, with zero knowledge of our legal principles and traditions, would interpret any trial following those comments. How do you say, "The fix is in," in Arabic?

We know you don't what the fuck you're doing, or what you're talking about, and just reading shit Soros's flunkies put in the teleprompter, but they don't know that.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at October 03, 2012 01:56 PM (U+DUu)

82

Glenn:

"maybe it doesn’t matter anyway"

Translation: Fuck right off, whorebag.

Posted by: imp at October 03, 2012 01:57 PM (UaxA0)

83 Some Night Court -
http://youtu.be/5iyPtsAGLUg

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 03, 2012 01:57 PM (UYZgt)

84 Well that sounds fair. We wouldn't have rioted or anything.

Posted by: The Arab Street response at October 03, 2012 01:57 PM (60GaT)

85
Buzzsaw, compromising position with a dead dog.>>

Well that would screw up Barkies dinner menu since pre screwed goat and I assume dog are not Hallal.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at October 03, 2012 01:57 PM (8wH5z)

86 I can't wait to see how usual suspects are going to square the idea that Obama "got" bin Laden with the fact that Obama thinks the smartest thing would be to put him on trial. Oh wait, that's right… Shut up.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows that poor people don't know how to show up for work at October 03, 2012 01:58 PM (AZGON)

87 Glenn:"maybe it doesn’t matter anyway"Translation: Fuck right off, whorebag.
Posted by: imp

...and make me a sammich.

Posted by: Roy at October 03, 2012 01:58 PM (VndSC)

88 Al Qaeda killed by Predator-fired J-DAM and display of U.S. rule of law/due process, but mostly Predator-fired J-DAM.

Posted by: angler at October 03, 2012 01:58 PM (SwjAj)

89
how about an October surprise...from Al Qaeda?

they release a video of Osama bin Laden saying he's alive and well -- it could be dubbed over by anyone sounding like Osama

Obama and the media would quickly declare it is phony and old. But the seed of doubt would be implanted in everyone's mind, nonetheless.

Posted by: Soothsayer at October 03, 2012 01:58 PM (jUytm)

90 For the record, I got the Judge Stone reference immediately. Loved that show.

Posted by: Dave in Fla at October 03, 2012 01:59 PM (qigku)

91 They're SEALs. They only need one.

Anyone worth shooting is worth shooting twice.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 03, 2012 01:59 PM (SY2Kh)

92 My ladyparts--they're shreeeeeeenking!

Posted by: Ann Althouse at October 03, 2012 01:59 PM (IoNBC)

93 If the goat don't fit, you must acquit!

Posted by: Zombie Johnnie Cochran at October 03, 2012 02:00 PM (vjyZP)

94 Time for a poll thread...

Posted by: joncelli at October 03, 2012 02:00 PM (RD7QR)

95 Obama continues: “I mean, we had worked through a whole bunch of those scenarios. But, frankly, my belief was if we had captured him, that I would be in a pretty strong position, politically, here, to argue that displaying due process and rule of law would be our best weapon against al-Qaeda, in preventing him from appearing as a martyr.”

It's dumb stuff like this that makes me doubt the view of Obama as some kind of radical Marxist. This codswallop is not Marxism, it's just weak-ass, little-old-lady-in-tennis-shoes liberalism.

Posted by: OregonMuse at October 03, 2012 02:00 PM (xm1A1)

96 Iron my shirt.

Posted by: Instapundit at October 03, 2012 02:00 PM (+QKfp)

97 92
My ladyparts--they're shreeeeeeenking!

Posted by: Ann Althouse at October 03, 2012 01:59 PM (IoNBC)

Then stop using them to pull levers!

Posted by: joncelli at October 03, 2012 02:00 PM (RD7QR)

98 Althouse believes pointing out racist pandering is racist, or something. Whatever.

Posted by: thunderb a conservative jew at October 03, 2012 02:01 PM (Dnbau)

99 I can certainly see the brilliant Barky and his sidekick, the DOJ Steadman, thinking this would be wunderbar.

Thankfully Bin Laden is dead and apparently is fish food and has evolved into some type of scum excrement for the bottom dwellers (huh. That sort of sounds like a description of Barry's golf group, but I digress).

It is a pity that Al Qaeda is still rising up like a phoenix in the vast barbarian lands of Ummah. However, with Barry now buying that prison in IL that Durbin is so excited about, I guess the bigs will be moved from Gitmo to there for their civil trials.

Vote like your lives depend on it on November 6, 2012.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, unbanned, ready to get this done at October 03, 2012 02:01 PM (baL2B)

100 The one reason I have doubts that it was really Osama that we killed was that Osama was known to have progressive kidney disease. I don't think we saw any proof of dialysis machines or other evidence in the house of a person with such a condition. No mention of proof of kidney transplant which would have eliminated said requirements.

Posted by: polynikes at October 03, 2012 02:02 PM (m2CN7)

101 Mr. Constitutional Scholar never worked out the fact that US law is not geared to prosecute a crime with substantial portions of the criminal activity occurring in a foreign country with parties to an armed force openly hostile to the US? The rules of evidence, and custody, would alone confound any attempt to use US Federal Courts to try a war criminal. US Law doesn't adequately handle "Crimes against humanity" which by treaty, and therefore as a trump to US federal laws and Jurisdictions are handled under Geneva Convention rules.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Regular! With Full Stomping Power! at October 03, 2012 02:02 PM (0q2P7)

102 Buzzsaw, so the dog is a bit extra crispy

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 03, 2012 02:02 PM (UYZgt)

103 74 Other than the government's word, I've seen no evidence that it WAS bin Laden killed in Abbottobad.

Didn't AQ confirm it, though? Not something they would do lightly.
-------------------------------

I think the charade of a long-dead bin Laden as head of AQ had outlived its usefulness. Plus, confirmation came via the web on a supposed AQ site. I don't trust it.

Posted by: Nukie at October 03, 2012 02:03 PM (4TBK2)

104 Too bad Althouse aint Stretch Armstrong.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at October 03, 2012 02:03 PM (UYZgt)

105 OK, Hypothetically, the SEALs bring Osama back alive in 2011. Osama would still be sitting in his cushy cell, holding forth on Great Satan, grooming his beard, and getting taxpayer-funded dialysis or whatever. In fact, he'd still be sitting in his cell--by now, a suite of cells, with conjugal visits--at the endof Obama's hypothetical second term.
Ironically, people might be so sick of Osama sitting in a cushy cell, that Obama would have no chance of a second term. Maybe that's why Obama gave the kill order; Somebody convinced him of the political liability.
Question: Could Obama have pardoned Osama?

Posted by: 66chevelle at October 03, 2012 02:03 PM (QjSgY)

106 "in preventing him from appearing as a martyr.”
This bottomless stupidity is dangerous. Does the President of the US seriously believe that bin Ladins status as a matyr is dependent on US court procedure? He is a matyr for Muslims because he fought The Great Satan and not because we granted or witheld his Miranda Rights and stuff.
Does he really believe that muslims, of all people,give a shit about due process?
If I would facepalm this properly I needed an x-ray afterwards...

Posted by: Elize Nayden at October 03, 2012 02:03 PM (mNgrl)

107 AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Glenn Reynolds to Althouse: Perhaps it will nonetheless alienate swing voters, but if swing voters are that easily alienated, and that immune to facts, then maybe it doesn’t matter anyway.

Remember, Althouse called herself a swing voter.
Translation, bitches: Althouse is impervious to facts. As if we couldn't tell.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows that poor people don't know how to show up for work at October 03, 2012 02:04 PM (AZGON)

108 I vote the 5.56 pill as option #1.

Posted by: Honey Badger at October 03, 2012 02:04 PM (GvYeG)

109 Althouse needs to spend a little time at Chez Fielding.

She can examine my briefs. [leer]

Posted by: R. "Dan" Fielding at October 03, 2012 02:05 PM (/kI1Q)

110 Does this Al Quada guy have a big dick? This is only thang I care about for this weekend becuase I have a new supply of comdumbs.....

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at October 03, 2012 02:06 PM (48wze)

111 What are the drinking rules for tonight's debate?

Is that some kind of Mormon crack?

Posted by: The Mega Independent at October 03, 2012 02:06 PM (LQAyT)

112 And forget getting any brownie points for "due process," since you and the Chinless Wonder already said that you'd convict Osama, and even if you didn't, you wouldn't let him go.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at October 03, 2012 01:56 PM (U+DUu)


Barky and Holder did that as professional courtesy to the jihadis, to insure that they win on appeal and "have" to be let free ... in New York City.

The only people in this episode who are entitled to the rights of an American citizen and should be sitting in trial in a federal court in New York defending their attacks on America are Barky and Holder. The foreign jihadis and husseins need to be captured, tortured, squeezed of all info, and unceremoniously (not even allowing any sort of muzzie ceremony for the scumbag savages) fed to the pigs.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at October 03, 2012 02:06 PM (X3lox)

113 When Markie Post had a breast reduction I quit watching Night Court.

Posted by: polynikes at October 03, 2012 02:06 PM (m2CN7)

114 >>>The one reason I have doubts that it was really Osama that we killed was
that Osama was known rumored to have progressive kidney disease.

>>>I don't think we saw any proof of dialysis machines or other evidence in
the house of a person with such a condition. No mention of proof of
kidney transplant which would have eliminated said requirements.

Right, so, because you didn't get a closeup of a surgical scar we conclude that the Osama we killed wasn't the real one?

I'm thinking if he had progressive Kidney disease, he's dead already, or he got that transplant which makes it very likely the Osama we killed WAS the real thing. Either way my belief that Osama is no longer alive is at 90%. Which is all I really care about.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Regular! With Full Stomping Power! at October 03, 2012 02:06 PM (0q2P7)

115 Is RU-486 radioactive ?????

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at October 03, 2012 02:07 PM (48wze)

116 There was very little chance that OBL was coming back on the return trip.

Posted by: EXILE at October 03, 2012 01:44 PM (GGCsk)

==============================================

He may have been accorded all the rituals of a "full Muslim burial" (whatever they are), but I gotta believe that the sailors aboard that aircraft carrier made sure that when he went over the side it was into the "mother of all chum slicks" so that he is now nothing more than shark shit at the bottom of the Indian Ocean.

Personally if he had surrendered I would have brought him back to New York- and let him pay a personal visit to every fire station in the FDNY.

After that what was left of him should have been swept up in a bucket and given to the NYPD for similar visitation.

Posted by: Nighthawk at October 03, 2012 02:07 PM (RSqz2)

117 I think our government's relationship with AQ is a very complicated one. Which is why it makes me laugh that Obama claims he would have put bin Laden on trial.

Obama has either been completely left in the dark or he's lying. OBL was never going to be put on trial.

Posted by: Nukie at October 03, 2012 02:08 PM (N2svL)

118 I am almost too good for you people.

No wait, I AM too good for you.

Posted by: Saint Barack at October 03, 2012 02:09 PM (DQHjw)

119 in preventing him from appearing as a martyr.

This is the analogue to "the internet movie trailer about mo caused it!!"

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at October 03, 2012 02:09 PM (X3lox)

120 I am disgusted by those who attempt to claim that it is morally greater to try those who are mass murderers and the instigators of mass murder than it is to execute them summarily for their crimes. As noted, it is simply preening. It is insulting to the dead to state that justice for their deaths is somehow a lesser value than following the strictures of civilization for those who reject the notion of modern society nearly in the entirely.


A pox upon them.

Posted by: alexthechick - SMOD the revelator at October 03, 2012 02:10 PM (VtjlW)

121 MikeTheMoose Regular! With Full Stomping Power! at October 03, 2012 02:06 PM (0q2P7)

I said I have doubts . That the body was disposed of quickly and nothing but the word of the government makes me have doubts. AndI never indicted I didn't think Osama was still alive.Save you dickish attorney comments for someone else.

Posted by: polynikes at October 03, 2012 02:11 PM (m2CN7)

122 I think the charade of a long-dead bin Laden as head of AQ had outlived
its usefulness. Plus, confirmation came via the web on a supposed AQ
site. I don't trust it.


Everyone knows that Bin Laden was really killed by chemtrails, water fluoridation, and Bigfoot. But mostly chemtrails.

And in case I wasn't clear, yes- I'm suggesting that you're a conspiracy theory nutcase.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 03, 2012 02:11 PM (SY2Kh)

123 Strong position, politically?

The fact that Obama would even consider this, that he and Holder would even consider this, shows just how divorced from the real world these clowns are.

Posted by: JEM at October 03, 2012 02:12 PM (o+SC1)

124 >>>Personally if he had surrendered

I think the only way the SEALs would have recognized his surrender is if he lied down on his face with his hands behind his head the instant they stormed the compound.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Regular! With Full Stomping Power! at October 03, 2012 02:12 PM (0q2P7)

125 What kind of grown man who wants to be taken seriously uses the phrase "a whole bunch"?
Posted by: Natasha at October 03, 2012 01:56 PM (jU5uf)

He usually adds, "of stuff" to that phrase.

Posted by: 66chevelle at October 03, 2012 02:13 PM (QjSgY)

126 correction: .....never thought Osama was still alive.

Posted by: polynikes at October 03, 2012 02:13 PM (m2CN7)

127 I never saw the body, and this government lies.

Posted by: Invictus at October 03, 2012 02:14 PM (OQpzc)

128 Well, Bush 1 put the leader of a foreign nation in prison after a show trial. So there's precedent of a sort.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at October 03, 2012 02:15 PM (QxGmu)

129 The SCOAMF keeps acting like bin Laden is the only al Qaeda terrorist that matters when Ayman al Zawahiri is still out there.

bit.ly/VuZDuW

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at October 03, 2012 02:15 PM (YjDyJ)

130 I'm sure somebody briefed the SEALs on this ....

Posted by: Jean at October 03, 2012 02:15 PM (iy7de)

131 I never saw the body, and this government lies.

Now that you mention it... I never saw the body of Elvis either. THE KING LIVES!!!

Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 03, 2012 02:16 PM (SY2Kh)

132 Awesome. In case you didn't get it the first four years.

MICHELLE OBAMA ON The TOM JOYNER MORNING SHOW: ...I think that Barack has done a phenomenal job working around a congress that has never been willing to help move the country forward on so many different issues.

http://bit.ly/QQ0tS6

Posted by: George Orwell what knows that poor people don't know how to show up for work at October 03, 2012 02:16 PM (AZGON)

133 I said I have doubts . That the body was disposed of quickly and nothing but the word of the government makes me have doubts.

Posted by: polynikes at October 03, 2012 02:11 PM (m2CN7)


I have doubts, too. The account by Mark Owen of the operation is something I would believe about the raid, but I don't trust one word that spills out of this treasonous administration. Not a one. I don't know why anyone would. They are pathological liars, as an administration, and only do things that are against American interests.

I can't figure out why anyone would take this administration's word for anything, especially when it involves the oddest and most ridiculous course of events and includes no proof for the public, at all.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at October 03, 2012 02:17 PM (X3lox)

134 I think the charade of a long-dead bin Laden as head of AQ had outlived its usefulness.

I remain convinced that he died in bombing long ago, but I have no real proof of this. Just after that the "Osama Bin Laden" on the tapes was blatantly a different dude, and filmed with a VHS recorder from 1979 so it was so grainy and crappy it was harder to identify him.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at October 03, 2012 02:18 PM (r4wIV)

135 Now that you mention it... I never saw the body of Elvis either. THE KING LIVES!!!
Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 03, 2012 02:16 PM (SY2Kh)................. He's living down in south america, writing poetry with Jim Morrison, and Bruce Lee. Still eating fried banannas, scrogging young hotties and shooting the occasional teevees.

Posted by: Invictus at October 03, 2012 02:18 PM (OQpzc)

136
"...due process and rule of law would be our best weapon against al-Qaeda, in preventing him from appearing as a martyr..."

Notsure how that helps if it's true. "Kill the infidels whohold Bin Laden!"

Posted by: Beagle at October 03, 2012 02:19 PM (sOtz/)

137 The Obama administration gave Michael Lewis a lot of access for his book - but they didn't know he wasn't going to write a kiss-ass friendly book. He kept it a secret. Can't wait for it to come out.

Posted by: Texas Ranger at October 03, 2012 02:19 PM (IvvrO)

138 Rusty Nail at October 03, 2012 02:15 PM (QxGmu
Except that Noriega was notclassified as a terrorist and that he was tried under drug running charges and Osama was not the leader of a foreign country and was a terrorist who attacked the United States,your're right. They are exactly the same.

Posted by: polynikes at October 03, 2012 02:21 PM (m2CN7)

139
I am disgusted by those who attempt to claim that it is morally greater to try those who are mass murderers and the instigators of mass murder than it is to execute them summarily for their crimes. As noted, it is simply preening.

It's typical Barry: he wants it both ways.He grabs credit for smoking Osama, but also wants to buff up the shitty Peace Prize by saying how he would have tried him, but goshdarnit Osama's skull now has a sun roof, so he can't tie up NYC for two years while Osama makes an asshole out of him by speechifying at every turn.

Hey Barry, if you really want to try someone, you've still got KSM, right? Why aren't you trying him, asshole?

Posted by: Jay Guevara at October 03, 2012 02:21 PM (U+DUu)

140
Now that you mention it... I never saw the body of Elvis either. THE KING LIVES!!!
Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 03, 2012 02:16 PM (SY2Kh)................. He's living down in south america, writing poetry with Jim Morrison, and Bruce Lee



And hanging around with David Carradine!

Posted by: Jay Guevara at October 03, 2012 02:22 PM (U+DUu)

141 >>>I said I have doubts . That the body was disposed of quickly and nothing but the word of the government makes me have doubts.

I personally think the whole thing was the SEALs making sure the whole thing got taken care of the *ahem* right way. So there would be no chance for the administration to...

1. Try Osama if he was brought back alive, to be eventually released when it was a political convenience to do so.
2. Request his body be brought back and eventually be returned to AQ and made into a shrine, because you know he would do that sh*t the instant some riots started in the mideast.

Now thanks to the SEALs,
1. Osama is dead.
2. No one can visit his resting place.

exactly how it should be.

>>>I said I have doubts . That the body was disposed of quickly and nothing
but the word of the government makes me have doubts. AndI never
indicted I didn't think Osama was still alive.Save you dickish attorney
comments for someone else.

Fine F* you. You can never be sure of events you don't witness. Harbor doubts all you want. Your mechanisms for dealing with uncertainty in your in your logical models, are highly questionable, and in stark contrast to most thought razors, good common sense, and careful deduction. But keep on trucking on "doubt". The fact that you can't quantify your doubt is good evidence that you haven't thought the situation through in a logical manner.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Regular! With Full Stomping Power! at October 03, 2012 02:23 PM (0q2P7)

142 Hollowpoint wouldn't have believed Sandy Berger stuck top secret papers in his underwear and socks if he hadn't been caught red handed.
He would have called you a nutcase for believing such a wacky story.

Posted by: polynikes at October 03, 2012 02:23 PM (m2CN7)

143
And in case I wasn't clear, yes- I'm suggesting that you're a conspiracy theory nutcase.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 03, 2012 02:11 PM (SY2Kh)


LOL. You don't think this treasonous administration is a conspiracy? You kill me with your clinically unstable "anti-conspiracy" rants. You are a great defender of Barky. Tell us how we're nuts to doubt their organized stories on Benghazi and Egypt, too.

Shit, you are fucked up.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at October 03, 2012 02:24 PM (X3lox)

144 Posted by: MikeTheMoose Regular! With Full Stomping Power! at October 03, 2012 02:23 PM (0q2P7)

An attorney lecturing me on logic. The irony.

Posted by: polynikes at October 03, 2012 02:26 PM (m2CN7)

145 Fine F* you. You can never be sure of events you don't witness. Harbor doubts all you want. Your mechanisms for dealing with uncertainty in your in your logical models, are highly questionable, and in stark contrast to most thought razors, good common sense, and careful deduction.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Regular! With Full Stomping Power! at October 03, 2012 02:23 PM (0q2P7)


That's about as stupid as it gets. There's a big difference between merely not witnessing something and WITNESSING the withholding of available evidence, which is what this case is about. Do you really not understand the fucking difference? I mean, really.

WTFFF?

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at October 03, 2012 02:29 PM (X3lox)

146 Hypothetically speaking...
I am the greatest progressive hero in the world.

If things had turned out differently...
I would have faced down the the entire nation to do
what the faculty of Harvard believes is right.

Yes, yes: in the real world
of course I am a selfish liar.
When it is time to act, I count the rule of law,
the norms of civilization,
and the lives of our ambassadors far more cheap
than my own political survival.

But how non-Althousian of you to bring that up!

Bow down to me, real world!
Kiss my feet, you lovers of your own good intentions,
For the prince of liberal dreams is passing through!
I am the incarnation of the land of should-have-been!
I am Barack Obama, and I am marvelous.

Posted by: Barack Obama at October 03, 2012 02:30 PM (+QKfp)

147 "...displaying due process and rule of law would be our best weapon against al-Qaeda,..."

Are these fucking people sane?

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at October 03, 2012 02:33 PM (vd7A8)

148 in civilian court...for tax evasion, probably

Posted by: hannitys_hybrid at October 03, 2012 02:37 PM (zpqa2)

149 Which lies? The story has changed so many times from "assassinate" to "capture if possible" to "shoot if any resistance is offered" to "assassinate" to ...

Posted by: Gerry at October 03, 2012 02:42 PM (xzVnO)

150 Hmmm. What if the real idea was to capture him, but someone decided to go ahead and kill him, like Panetta. So Obama is sitting there watching and all of a sudden the guy is dead. What's he going to do, arrest the SEALS? Fire Panetta?

So Valerie's big idea is to get on TV right away so that Al Qaeda is warned, and we lost all of that intelligence.

That's my theory, and I am sticking to it.

Posted by: Miss Marple at October 03, 2012 02:45 PM (GoIUi)

151 I don't know what is worse- Obama's naivete or his ideology. Perhaps his ineptitude is a blessing.

Posted by: Baldy at October 03, 2012 02:46 PM (opS9C)

152 Which lies? The story has changed so many times from "assassinate" to "capture if possible" to "shoot if any resistance is offered" to "assassinate" to ...

Posted by: Gerry at October 03, 2012 02:42 PM (xzVnO)


Mike the Moose and Hollowpoint believe all of them. They believe everything they hear from the biggest most pathological liar to ever occupy the White House and the most ridiculous lying administration in our nation's history ... just so no one can call them "conspiracy nuts". Because they know that this administration would never act in a conspiratorial way to hide evidence and lie about any events. Never. No way. And the MFM would never join this administration in hiding anything. No sirree. No, Mike the Moose and Hollowpoint think that the events surrounding the bin laden raid were just like what America's always done. Same shit. Full muslim burial rites and all. Without any photos. Yep. Just as it's always been ...

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at October 03, 2012 02:49 PM (X3lox)

153 Isn't this AFTER all the hub-bub over the KSM trial in NYC, of all places? Holder had to backtrack from trying KSM in NYC because everyone was against it. Sometimes I honestly wonder if Obama doesn't have people behind him trying to sabotage his Presidency.

Posted by: Baldy at October 03, 2012 02:55 PM (opS9C)

154 LOL. You don't think this treasonous administration is a conspiracy?
You kill me with your clinically unstable "anti-conspiracy" rants. You
are a great defender of Barky. Tell us how we're nuts to doubt their
organized stories on Benghazi and Egypt, too.


Clearly the Benghazi and Cairo attacks were motivated by Illuminati HAARP mind-control rays.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 03, 2012 02:59 PM (SY2Kh)

155 Hollowpoint wouldn't have believed Sandy Berger stuck top secret papers
in his underwear and socks if he hadn't been caught red handed.


And why would I, considering that nobody knew what he was doing until he was caught?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 03, 2012 03:00 PM (SY2Kh)

156 And why would I, considering that nobody knew what he was doing until he was caught?
Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 03, 2012 03:00 PM (SY2Kh)

Its not that you wouldn't have believed it but that you would have called anyone who did a nutcase.

Posted by: polynikes at October 03, 2012 03:03 PM (m2CN7)

157 I see what you are trying to say though I didn't think you would also be obtuse.I didn't think I had to spell it out for you.
If someone working there had suggested Berger did this without any physical evidence just their suspicions because of circumstantial evidence, you would called anyone that believed them a nutcase.

Posted by: polynikes at October 03, 2012 03:08 PM (m2CN7)

158 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at October 03, 2012 03:19 PM (6o4Fb)

159 "Politically", it's all he thinks about. Not what's best for AMERICA, but what's politically good for HIM. All about the O.

Posted by: Aslan's Girl at October 03, 2012 04:29 PM (KL49F)

160 I see what you are trying to say though I didn't think you would also be obtuse.I didn't think I had to spell it out for you.

If someone working there had suggested Berger did this without any
physical evidence just their suspicions because of circumstantial
evidence, you would called anyone that believed them a nutcase.


What kind of hypothetical "circumstantial evidence" are you suggesting there would be for someone shoving documents in their socks and underwear? Chafing?

One guy stealing documents isn't a conspiracy theory requiring complicity dozens of people- from SEAL Team 6 to those who were shown the photos to the lab tech who did the DNA tests on Bin Laden's remains.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at October 03, 2012 04:35 PM (SY2Kh)

161 Sandy Berger stole documents on several occasions. The staff became suspicious because of how things had been checked out and in and his behaviour. They kept a better eye on him and it was only after he pressed his luck that he was caught.Even if he wasn't caught, the staff could have and in fact did raised those concerns to their superviors before he was caught.

Posted by: polynikes at October 03, 2012 04:42 PM (m2CN7)

162 Sure, 0 is trying to have it both ways here: a nod to Article III courts and a wink to the target assassinations program.

But the truth is he really would have liked to try bin Laden in a civilian court and if he had any political opening to do so, he would have taken his shot.

In the event, he would have faced an enormous popular backlash for it and would have scurried away from it, pointing fingers at everyone and his brother along the way. But he still wanted it.

Posted by: Chipperoo at October 03, 2012 04:47 PM (6c62F)

163
to argue that displaying due process and rule of law would be our best weapon against al-Qaeda, in preventing him from appearing as a martyr.

Since he wouldn't be tried in an Islamic court, he'd still be considered a martyr ya clue fuck.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at October 03, 2012 05:00 PM (BDH94)

164
Unless he was found not guilty and released on his good behaviour. And the Islamicists would have chalked that up to stupid Americans, not some nebulous notion of "due process".

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie ® at October 03, 2012 05:02 PM (BDH94)

165 Check this claim out:

Obama had never bought the line that bin Laden “was living an ascetic life somewhere, in some mountain somewhere.”

I'm sure that's true. Obama is smarter than everyone else.

Posted by: JJAK at October 03, 2012 05:11 PM (2wESP)






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