September 17, 2012: The Day We Gave Up In Afghanistan

Partnering with and building up the native forces and government are essential elements of COIN strategy. If you can't trust your "allies" not to shoot you in the back, the strategy has failed and the war is over.

COIN: 2007-2012, RIP.

U.S. troops in Afghanistan have been ordered to significantly scale back operations with Afghan military and police forces after a spike in fratricidal “insider attacks” that has seriously undermined U.S. trust in their local allies.

The decision, officials said Tuesday, is also linked to concerns that American field troops have become more vulnerable to attacks because of Muslim outrage over a controversial anti-Islam video.

...

The fundamental U.S. strategy is to prepare some 350,000 Afghan forces to take over the country’s security by the end of 2014 so that the United States can pull out its combat troops.

...

The U.S.-led International Security Assistance Force said in a statement Tuesday that “most partnering and advising” would now be done at the battalion level and above. Lower-level joint operations will be “evaluated on a case-by-case basis” and must be approved by regional commanders.

Pull everyone inside the wire, figure out what equipment we can take out and what equipment we have to take out and then blow up the rest and come home.

There's absolutely no reason to stay in Afghanistan a minute longer than it takes to pack up and leave in as orderly fashion as possible.

We did not lose the war in Afghanistan. A decade ago we toppled the government that harbored the people responsible for 9/11, killed, captured and scattered al Qaeda forces using that country as a base of operations and give the people of that country a chance to live a decent life. That it turned out not enough Afghans chose to avail themselves of that opportunity is not the fault of America or the brave men and women of the US military who sacrificed so much in that God forsaken place.

Barbarians will be barbarians. There's nothing we can do to change that. In fact, this post from December of 2009 following Obama's big West Point speech stands up pretty well I think.

I imagine we'll leave behind some residual special forces/CIA types if we can find a reasonably safe part of the country to base them in. Seems there must be a local warlord somewhere we can pay off to operate from his area. Beyond blowing up a bunch of al Qaeda types who are stupid enough to gather in groups of 3 or more, they can have the damn place.

This doesn't mean the fight is over. Al Qaeda has moved on to other places (Africa anyone?) and evolved. So will our fight against them. As for Afghanistan, time to let them get back to what they love doing so much...killing each other. Good hunting boys!

Two things I forgot to mention:

1- I call BS on the General saying the damn video has anything to do with this. Green on Blue attacks have been going on for awhile and getting worse. It's their strategy now and has nothing to do with faux outrage over a video.

2- There was a major attack at a base in Afghanistan this weekend and the US Marine Corps took a big hit.

Lt. Col. Chris "Otis" Raible, commanding officer of the jet squadron whose Harrier fleet was decimated last week at Camp Bastion, was among two Yuma Marines killed when insurgents infiltrated the main NATO strategic base in southwestern Afghanistan.

...

Three refueling stations were also destroyed and six aircraft hangars damaged during the attack on both fixed wing and rotor craft, coalition officials said. With each of the six Harrier jets destroyed costing at least $24 million, damages in the attack total well over $144 million.

Six harriers destroyed on the ground? What the hell is going on over there?

Posted by: DrewM. at 10:40 AM



Comments

1 What good does COIN do when the fucking Afghan army is saturated with Taliban? This nation building shit is a piss-poor substitute for fighting a war.

Posted by: SFC MAC at September 18, 2012 10:42 AM (jLUk8)

2 Just leave them with a warning: Our Army and Marine will never return. Don't make us send the Air Force.

Posted by: fluffy at September 18, 2012 10:43 AM (z9HTb)

3 Wile B. Obama
Military Super Genius
Have Brain Will Travel!

Posted by: jukin at September 18, 2012 10:47 AM (5oKRH)

4 And we thought the Chinese were sneaky putting Melanin in Dog Food and Anti Freeze in tooth paste, One thing these Greeby Mutts need to know or reminded , the USA is never out gunned!!!!

Posted by: Clemenza at September 18, 2012 10:47 AM (afx6B)

5 Foist???

Posted by: MrObvious at September 18, 2012 10:47 AM (t4++D)

6
Just another war Obama has won!
suck it, wingnutz!!!!!

Posted by: Jay at September 18, 2012 10:47 AM (3LaGb)

7 Barry is going to pull the troops out early before the election.

watch and see.

Posted by: jeremiah Gosh Darn Amerikkka muhammad hussein jihadi Peace Loving soetero blame bush wright at September 18, 2012 10:48 AM (ovpNn)

8 I think there were actually 52% of America that gave up about 3 years ago.....

Posted by: MrObvious at September 18, 2012 10:48 AM (t4++D)

9 Should have left a month after bombing Tora Bora.

Posted by: Sugar Kane at September 18, 2012 10:49 AM (EX+sq)

10 Fuck Islam.
Fuck Afghanistan.
Get our soldiers out and drop a few mega-tons of foreign aid on their backwards asses.

Posted by: garrett at September 18, 2012 10:49 AM (0cb+d)

11 6 Just another war Obama has won!


Hi Jay! Do you think Obama will get another Nobel Peace Prize? He is sure is awesome!

Posted by: fluffy at September 18, 2012 10:50 AM (z9HTb)

12 OT, but apparently the Chinese people are more than a little pissed about those islands. What looks to be a group of employees from an Audi Dealership is holding up a big banner with "Even if graves cover our land, all Japanese must be killed. Even if our soil is not fit for growing crops anymore, we must get back the Diaoyu (fishing) Islands". Might be photoshopped, but still, pretty hardcore. Link on my name.

Posted by: Countrysquire at September 18, 2012 10:50 AM (1hLHC)

13 Romney should be all over this.

Posted by: pre-empt TFG with the truth and honesty at September 18, 2012 10:50 AM (LpQbZ)

14 We should have leftwhen Karzai revealed himself to be a Taliban sympathizer and a critic of the United States. They should have figured that out when no real attempts have been by the Taliban to take him out.

Posted by: polynikes at September 18, 2012 10:51 AM (m2CN7)

15 Obama doesn't want anymore surprises, so embassies will be emptied, troops brought home or bunkered down....

Posted by: zippy at September 18, 2012 10:51 AM (nR8Ca)

16 NO, The day we gave up on Afghanistan was the day that our illustious leader gave that speech at West Point setting a deadline. We were fucked from then on. Well we were fucked the day he got elected, but that day at West Point was the "Official" surrender date.

Oh and my building is on 2 electrical grids and one just went out. So now I am fucked.

Fuck

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 10:52 AM (05RcU)

17 11
6 Just another war Obama has won!


Hi Jay! Do you think Obama will get another Nobel Peace Prize? He is sure is awesome!


Posted by: fluffy at September 18, 2012 10:50 AM (z9HTb)

With a second nobel peace prize he can finally have that pair of earings crafted that are big enough for his jug ears.

Posted by: jeremiah Gosh Darn Amerikkka muhammad hussein jihadi Peace Loving soetero blame bush wright at September 18, 2012 10:52 AM (ovpNn)

18

Brilliant Drudge quote and associated pict.

Press it in their faces.

Posted by: pre-empt TFG with the truth and honesty at September 18, 2012 10:52 AM (LpQbZ)

19 I'm sure Mother Jones will reveal a video in which Romney says, "Voters don't care about Afghanistan." Because, sadly, like everything else he said in that tape, it's stone cold true.

Posted by: CJ at September 18, 2012 10:52 AM (9KqcB)

20 Hindsight being 20/20 and all. We should have only done the special forces partnered with the Northern Alliance and air power. Blown crap up for a year and pulled out then. I would have probably argued against that at the time but this has to be the way we move forward. Quick nasty breaking stuff actions as punishment and bugging out.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at September 18, 2012 10:53 AM (tf9Ne)

21 Looks like I picked the wrong day to give up drinking.

Hey wait I didn't give up drinking?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 10:53 AM (05RcU)

22 One or two tactical nukes would solve the problem. . . just sayin'.

Posted by: MCPO Airdale at September 18, 2012 10:53 AM (tYaDf)

23 "Nation-building" in Afghanistan is one of those things that ranks up there with land wars in Asia: Don't.

Come to think, they are kinda the same thing, aren't they...

Posted by: Brother Cavil presents at September 18, 2012 10:53 AM (GBXon)

24 Perhaps our soldiers are great and they have the best equipment-but our military leaders are not. I think this has pretty clearly been proven (and that includes the great Gen. Petraeus). Rules of engagement, cultural sensitivity, keep up those patrols even as moreofour soldiers get murdered,rinse and repeat.

Posted by: ejo at September 18, 2012 10:54 AM (kfYyO)

25 Revisit splitting up the country along ethnic lines?

Posted by: Jean at September 18, 2012 10:54 AM (pmDdf)

26 With a second nobel peace prize he can finally have that pair of earings crafted that are big enough for his jug ears.


I shall savor his struggle for relevancy, starting Jan 20.

Posted by: fluffy at September 18, 2012 10:54 AM (z9HTb)

27 ‏@jaketapper




WH says there's no truth to the rumor
that the State Dept is considering talks to transfer the "Blind Sheikh"
Omar Abdel-Rahman to Egypt



Uh huh, sure....

Posted by: Tami at September 18, 2012 10:54 AM (X6akg)

28 This is a headache for Obama but his doctor told hm to take two hip hop stars and call him in the morning.

Posted by: WalrusRex at September 18, 2012 10:54 AM (Hx5uv)

29 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable tyrant.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at September 18, 2012 10:54 AM (8y9MW)

30 If we just give them the blind sheikh and maybe that filmmaker then they will all be our friends. We can then finally coexist just like the bumper sticker on my Prius says.

Posted by: Typical Libtard at September 18, 2012 10:55 AM (1hLHC)

31
"Africa anyone?"
Northern Mali is split between competing jihadi groups andtribal clans,Touregs, AQIM, Ansar Dine, and probably some AQAP visiting asa safer place to train. Then there's the military coup. A total FUBAR and jihadis love that.

Syria is fast becoming an outright Sunni-Shia sectarian civilwar. Sunni Salafist jihadis of the Saudi and whatnot persuasion are pouring in. Iran has boots on the ground. It'sgoing to heat up a lot over the coming weeks and months.

Posted by: Beagle at September 18, 2012 10:55 AM (sOtz/)

32
WH says there's no truth to the rumor

that the State Dept is considering talks to transfer the "Blind Sheikh"

Omar Abdel-Rahman to Egypt



Uh huh, sure....

---

Howdy Doody Carney said, I believe it, and that settles it.

Posted by: WalrusRex at September 18, 2012 10:56 AM (Hx5uv)

33 The COIN can not operate unless you have full cooperation with the leaders. The majority ofleaders in Afghanistan have hedged their bets long ago.A chain will not work ifthe masterlink is missing.

Posted by: polynikes at September 18, 2012 10:56 AM (m2CN7)

34 WH says there's no truth to the rumor

that the State Dept is considering talks to transfer the "Blind Sheikh"

Omar Abdel-Rahman to Egypt


Yes. The WH also said "just the tip."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at September 18, 2012 10:56 AM (8y9MW)

35 "WH says there's no truth to the rumor
that the State Dept is considering talks to transfer the "Blind Sheikh"
Omar Abdel-Rahman to Egypt "

I'm sure he'll have a little more " flexibility " after the election.

Posted by: Wyatt's Torch at September 18, 2012 10:57 AM (49lPc)

36 12
OT, but apparently the Chinese people are more than a little pissed
about those islands. What looks to be a group of employees from an Audi
Dealership is holding up a big banner with "Even if graves cover our
land, all Japanese must be killed. Even if our soil is not fit for
growing crops anymore, we must get back the Diaoyu (fishing) Islands".
Might be photoshopped, but still, pretty hardcore. Link on my name.

Two things...

One, there's no love lost between the Chinese and Japanese, going back to at least World War II if not longer. They'd insist on the islands even if they were completely worthless.

Two, those islands are supposedly sitting on a big deposit of oil and natural gas, which is desperately needed by both countries to reduce their dependency on imports. Going to war over a resource like that is highly likely.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at September 18, 2012 10:57 AM (e0xKF)

37 Not one more American life should be sacrificed in A-stan. The barbarians that control it have made it abundantly clear that they do not want freedom and democracy.

And TFG gets to claim a victory by bringing the American military home and watching A-stan burn afterwards. As somebody else said on this blog awhile back, TFG might be a lightbringer, but maybe the light he brings is fire.

Posted by: Boots at September 18, 2012 10:57 AM (neKzn)

38 Somebody said it on the ONT last night and it's worth repeating. If it was any other president we wouldn't even be worried about the blind fucker story being true. But since it's TFG there's no way to be certain.

Posted by: Adam at September 18, 2012 10:57 AM (/YJYi)

39 My stepson just returned from a 9 month Afghan tour on Saturday and his mom went to greet him in Fayetville, N.C.

What great young men and women we have in our armed forces. What great parents and family support those young men and women have.

Fuck the Afghans.

They are barbarians. Let them have that shithole they call home. Corrupt as hell and happy to live in the 8th Century. Fuck 'em all. Pull out immediately. That place is not worth one more single drop of American blood or one more American dollar (borrowed from China). If the Taliban come back and undertake terrorist operations, hit 'em with a strike force, kill as many as we can, and then get the hell out.

Like I said, fuck 'em all.

Posted by: MoeRon at September 18, 2012 10:58 AM (yWDpP)

40 The Marines successfully completed the mission years ago.

Done. Let's go.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at September 18, 2012 10:58 AM (Q1Sez)

41 Aerosolized smallpox and anthrax should have been our weapons of choice.

Remember those cute Afghani kids who laughed and ran alongside our vehicles in November 2001? They're shooting us now.

I'm sure our future generals will have it all figured out...if the National War College includes smart military blogs as a key part of the curriculum.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at September 18, 2012 10:58 AM (Ec6wH)

42 Like I said, fuck 'em all.
Posted by: MoeRon at September 18, 2012 10:58 AM (yWDpP)

40 The Marines successfully completed the mission years ago.

Done. Let's go.
Posted by: Dave in Texas at September 18, 2012 10:58 AM (Q1Sez)

Amen

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 10:58 AM (05RcU)

43 Romney should call on US troops coming home and promise in stone a 90-180 day withdrawl, "Congratulation mr. president you got Bin Laden, you also have gotten more GIs killed for less gain than President Bush and make no demands on our "allies" in the region. I will bring home US forces and retool them for operations in the region in defense of US interests."

Undermine his peacenik base.

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 10:59 AM (LRFds)

44 I think there were actually 52% of America that gave up about 3 years ago.. Posted by: MrObvious

A lot more and a lot earlier. Think 2006 elections.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 18, 2012 11:00 AM (3CiXB)

45 DR's, Nurses, and Docs are still getting orders in my Unit to deploy to that shit hole?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:00 AM (05RcU)

46 Drew we are not "fighting COIN" we are engaged in peacekeeping in a region where there is no peace.

Obama is the stupidest CinC I've ever reasoned through.

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 11:01 AM (LRFds)

47 Drudge:
"REPORT: Pakistani protester dies after inhaling fumes from burning U.S. flag..."

What are these flags made of?

Posted by: Dr. Varno at September 18, 2012 11:01 AM (5MoIO)

48 43 It worked for Nixon in '72.

Posted by: Typical Libtard at September 18, 2012 11:01 AM (1hLHC)

49 the problem isnt anything less thank O's six page memo on things our military men and women should never do. we have the greatest fighters in the world. Had they been free to actually FIGHT, this shit would be over.


they had fucking KN OWN talib working in the chowhalls in Bagram. HOPING something would happen and "lead them to bigger fish." Thats right. the problem was never Afghanistan. it was leadership. Fish rots from the head and leadership is full of bad ideas. Under these circumstances we couldnt win anything anywhere.

Posted by: gushka's got a Kitty what plays fetch! ! at September 18, 2012 11:02 AM (r7Ddb)

50 What are these flags made of?

And let's make more of them.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at September 18, 2012 11:02 AM (/kI1Q)

51 Drudge:
"REPORT: Pakistani protester dies after inhaling fumes from burning U.S. flag..."

What are these flags made of?
Posted by: Dr. Varno at September 18, 2012 11:01 AM (5MoIO)


If they kill scum like that, the right stuff

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:02 AM (05RcU)

52 Damn sock...

Posted by: Countrysquire at September 18, 2012 11:02 AM (1hLHC)

53 47 Drudge:
"REPORT: Pakistani protester dies after inhaling fumes from burning U.S. flag..."

What are these flags made of?
Posted by: Dr. Varno at September 18, 2012 11:01 AM (5MoIO)


It was made of MOOOOOVVVVIIIIIEEEEEEE!!!!11!

Posted by: cajun carrot at September 18, 2012 11:03 AM (UZQM8)

54 Toxic flags, Mr. Bond...

Posted by: Q at September 18, 2012 11:03 AM (5MoIO)

55 It cannot be stated enough. Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable tyrant.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at September 18, 2012 11:03 AM (71LDo)

56 Yes. We did what we came to do. Pull out, bomb the pakis and any known talibs that we have missed so far on the way out, and let the Afghans go back to buggering little boys.

Posted by: joncelli, heartless Morale Officer at September 18, 2012 11:04 AM (RD7QR)

57 Maybe if Gen. Dempsey was more concerned with, you know, doing his fucking job instead of phoning obscure video makers, we might not be in this mess

Martin Dempsey makes Wesley Clark look like Patton

Posted by: kbdabear at September 18, 2012 11:04 AM (wwsoB)

58 47 Drudge: "REPORT: Pakistani protester dies after inhaling fumes from burning U.S. flag..." What are these flags made of?
-----------------------------

Were the flags made in China? Maybe there's some Chinese dog food or toothpaste or drywallin them?

Posted by: Boots at September 18, 2012 11:04 AM (neKzn)

59 Yes. The WH also said "just the tip.

How was I supposed to know you're lactose intolerant?

Posted by: GMan at September 18, 2012 11:04 AM (sxq57)

60 What are these flags made of?

Posted by: Dr. Varno at September 18, 2012 11:01 AM (5MoIO)


If they're made in China?

Cadmium, probably.

Posted by: ErikW at September 18, 2012 11:05 AM (g/dfF)

61 It's not giving up. It's time pull out of all Muslim nations. If they don't play nice, surround and pound.

Posted by: Clink at September 18, 2012 11:06 AM (/5Q7w)

62 Bring them home and let Afghanistan stay in the dark ages. Cut off any visas for Afghanis traveling to the US, even if they go through another country (like Americans who visit Cuba by flying out of a foreign airport). I'm done with them.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter at September 18, 2012 11:06 AM (4df7R)

63 Maybe they should weave some C-4 into American flags sold abroad.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at September 18, 2012 11:06 AM (5MoIO)

64 Posted by: Countrysquire at September 18, 2012 11:02 AM (1hLHC)

It works for us.....

Romney should separate from "evil Bush" by refusing to be stuck in the same stupid paradigm as Bush/Obama....

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 11:07 AM (LRFds)

65 Maybe they should weave some C-4 into American flags sold abroad.
Posted by: Dr. Varno at September 18, 2012 11:06 AM (5MoIO)


C4 and dog hair.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter at September 18, 2012 11:07 AM (4df7R)

66 Totally agree, wish we would have started the process the day bin laden went to hell. I think we must have an exit strategy and that seemed like the primary mission after the taliban and al queda were hammered.

Posted by: Guy Mohawk at September 18, 2012 11:07 AM (PHb2k)

67
Japan hasn't raped Nanking in decades. Geez. Get over it.
-- China reset button

Posted by: Beagle at September 18, 2012 11:07 AM (sOtz/)

68 Cadmium, probably.

Posted by: ErikW
-------------------

I love their eggs.

Posted by: irright at September 18, 2012 11:07 AM (pMGkg)

69 Pull our troops out, bomb the living crap out of the country til nothing is left alive, tell the rest of the ME they're next at any moment.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at September 18, 2012 11:07 AM (DuH+r)

70 18

I liked this one: REPORT: Pakistani protester dies after inhaling fumes from burning U.S. flag...

We need more flags like that one.
Too bad it was probably made in China.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at September 18, 2012 11:08 AM (Qxdfp)

71 They are starting to get higher rank also.

Might be due to the fact that the new strategy is to "show" trust.

Posted by: tasker at September 18, 2012 11:08 AM (r2PLg)

72 "It's my nature," said the scorpion.

Posted by: Dave G at September 18, 2012 11:08 AM (n7xol)

73 damn, gotta type faster.

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at September 18, 2012 11:09 AM (Qxdfp)

74
We will never win another war until we return to the Curtis Lemay method of warfighting. I would not recommend we send our children to the military until we get that commitment from our leaders. My son spent two tours over there and came home with a broken body... for what? to what end? Fuck all politicians who send our sons in harms way and don't commit to the win.......
Fuck em all............

Posted by: Hey You! at September 18, 2012 11:09 AM (7QZ6R)

75 >>>C4 and dog hair.

Locks of love.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at September 18, 2012 11:09 AM (5MoIO)

76 #44: I disagree with the use of the term "gave up." That gives an unwarranted negative connotation. We don't "give up" when we realize that the people we are dying for don't give a shit and aren't worth saving.
The Afghans, by and large, are an ignorant people who are very happy to live in the 8th Century. My heart goes out to every woman and child who has been cursed by God to be born in such a shithole, but the United States of America has to draw the line about who we do and do not die for.
When the Taliban get out of line, kill 'em; but don't try to turn a country of shit eating, goat fucking, ignorant, illiterate, immoraland hateful goat herders into some kind of Jeffersonian democracy ( and whoever came up with the idea of doing that should also be drawn and quartered.)

Posted by: MoeRon at September 18, 2012 11:09 AM (yWDpP)

77 Great post.

Posted by: MJH at September 18, 2012 11:09 AM (UF0og)

78 IMO, the problem is that there is no real plan for an endgame in Astan, nor a convincing justification for continued action.

Every death and injury is a tragedy, of course, but our loss rate in both Iraq and Afghanistan could be sustained forever, if the national will was there to do so. But you can't get the nation behind a no-plan situation without even a destination besides a holding action.

Posted by: toby928© at September 18, 2012 11:09 AM (QupBk)

79 And perhaps we shouldn't be so arrogant about how incredible our armed forces are. Are our soldiers great and do we have the best equipment-seems so. Is the other side less well equipped-seems like it. Are our generals competent-nope, they most definitely are not (Remember General Casey). Is the less well equipped other side strategically competent-sure seems like it given the base attack over the weekend.

Posted by: ejo at September 18, 2012 11:10 AM (kfYyO)

80 The post was a nice read, I only have one problem with it: what does it have to do with the real world?

In the real world there are over 300,000 Afghan army and police, of which a small percentage misbehaved. Hardly surprising for an extremely poor, disorganized society.

In the real world, an American withdrawal in Afghanistan would be seen as a huge defeat to everyone and a huge vicotry to the jihadists, quite possibly the greatest jihadist victory of all time. A superpower would have been defeated by a gang of thugs after suffering less than 2% pf the casualties it took to defeat Japan in WWII.

By your standards Vietnam was not a defeat because the South Vietnamese simply could not stand up for themselves. Oddly enough, history recorded it differently.

In the real world, surrender in Afghanistan would mean it would sooner or later be converted into the terrorist safe-haven it was before 9/11.

So I'm not sure what this post has to do with reality.

Posted by: Reality Check at September 18, 2012 11:10 AM (ELEDJ)

81 My TV is out, My compressor and suction, and half the lights in my Office. By I still got my computer and router.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:10 AM (05RcU)

82 We need more flags like that one. Too bad it was probably made in China.
Posted by: Clutch Cargo at September 18, 2012 11:08 AM (Qxdfp)


Frankly I'd be GLAD if it was made in China. No reason for them to burn a genuine American-made American flag. Let them burn the cheap knockoff flags saturated with arsenic and cadmium and whatever other shitty pollutants the Chinese leave in their handiwork. Win/win in my book.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter at September 18, 2012 11:10 AM (4df7R)

83 The success of these attacks is a direct consequence of the idiotic idea that people have to "like" us.

No. They have to love themselves and their children more than they hate us- and there's nothing we can do to make that happen.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at September 18, 2012 11:10 AM (8y9MW)

84 damn, gotta type faster.Posted by: Clutch Cargo

Or, you know, read.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 18, 2012 11:10 AM (3CiXB)

85 One way to win in Afghanistan is to do an old-fashioned conquest. Kill the men and boys and sell the women and girls into slavery (the Saudis can help with that).

Then we populate the land with friendlies and exploit the shit out of it. Any turf we don't want we make unusable with mines and poison.

Not that I'm advocating this.

Pulling out of Afghanistan is a huge victory for our enemies.

There is no way around that. If we are lucky and skillful it will only be a tactical victory. More likely it will be a grand disaster.

Posted by: eman at September 18, 2012 11:10 AM (Wp4rQ)

86 Wait I thought Bush got distracted from Afghanistan by the Iraq War, and Obama was going to refocus on Afghanistan.
This is as good a time and place to remind everyone, once again, that:

"Of the 1,912 U.S. militarypersonnel whohavedied inthe nownearly 11-year-longwar in Afghanistan, 1,343havediedsince President BarackObama was inaugurated on Jan. 20, 2009.

Seventy percent of the Afghan War casualties have happened on Obama's watch."

http://tinyurl.com/7qr26n3


Maybe Mitt will get "secretly recorded" mentioning that Gigantic Horror Fact.


In fact the "secret phone recording" should be used as a false flag operation for broadcastingsome other Gigantic Horror Facts about Obama.

Posted by: 66chevelle at September 18, 2012 11:10 AM (QjSgY)

87 #43 Sven: Romney (assuming he is elected which, considering what Osama Obama feels free to do, is by no means certain, even when he gets the necessary votes) should not do anything of the sort.

Rather, he should remove all troops, equipment, supplies and aid materials/personnel without saying a damned word. Just do a Larry the Cable Guy and "git 'er done!"

After the removals are completed, he should announce that any further American responses to the animals in A-Stan and the M.E. will be met with a combined response of cruise missiles and B-52s. Any further bullshit from the Goat People will trigger tactical nukes.

Just sayin'.

Posted by: MrScribbler at September 18, 2012 11:11 AM (ZgX/g)

88 Re: toxic flags

I read an article a few weeks back about a cottage industry in the Mid East of local tailors that churned out flags to sell to protesters for burning; can't find a link for it now. No telling what type of materials they're using though...I wouldn't be surprised if it's sacks that formerly contained pesticides or fertilizer, though.

Posted by: Country Singer (likes teh ginger ladies) at September 18, 2012 11:11 AM (L8r/r)

89 Oh, look who's back! Reality Check!

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter at September 18, 2012 11:11 AM (4df7R)

90 Local radio (DC area) has been talking about the Marines killed. But nobody is mentioning the lost aircraft.

Posted by: DCPensFan at September 18, 2012 11:11 AM (ma/2m)

91
OK, I'll say it.
Joe Biden was right on Afghanistan. Go back and look what he proposed. Joe. Fucking. Biden. Was. Right.

Posted by: Beagle at September 18, 2012 11:11 AM (sOtz/)

92 The only thing we should be doing in Afghanistan is quarterly napalm runs on their poppy fields.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 18, 2012 11:12 AM (oihrP)

93 I liked this one: REPORT: Pakistani protester dies after inhaling fumes from burning U.S. flag...

______________

Maybe the asshat burned a polyurethane flag.

Posted by: tasker at September 18, 2012 11:12 AM (r2PLg)

94 We turned what should have been a sophisticated pest extermination process on 9/11/01, into a nation building exercise in a place where no nation has or will exist, probably ever.

Another wrong door that Bush opened that SCOAMF jammed off its hinges.

All proper respect should be paid to all who have, and continue to give so much in our heroic military, to the mission the were handed, what ever we might think of it now.

They did not fail.

Politicians, (some of them in highest ranking uniform) failed them.

Posted by: ontherocks at September 18, 2012 11:12 AM (aZ6ew)

95 Fighting to a deadline was just a marvelous idea, marvelous!

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:12 AM (05RcU)

96 "REPORT: Pakistani protester dies after inhaling fumes from burning U.S. flag..."



What are these flags made of?

---

Hatred.

Posted by: WalrusRex at September 18, 2012 11:13 AM (Hx5uv)

97 Joe Biden was right on Afghanistan. Go back and look what he proposed. Joe. Fucking. Biden. Was. Right.

Even a blind squirell gets it right.

Posted by: Zakn at September 18, 2012 11:13 AM (zyaZ1)

98 Oh, look who's back! Reality Check!

Wait. Where's the Nazi Apologist Troll? I missed it.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at September 18, 2012 11:13 AM (8y9MW)

99 Why wasn't Romney talking about this last wkeeekekeke!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

Posted by: Reallllllllllity CZZZEECHHCHC!?!?! at September 18, 2012 11:13 AM (/YJYi)

100 I hate to say this, but Ryan's constant harping on agreeing with the 2014 surrender date is not helpful. He may as well be saying that he agrees with spending soldiers' lives for no good reason since the pullout will happen no matter the outcome. IMO, he needs to stfu about A-stan and stick with what he knows.

Posted by: HtP at September 18, 2012 11:14 AM (jx2j9)

101 http://www.buzzfeed.com/txblacklabel/true-love-in-pictures-only-28m7

A few pics worth the tears

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:14 AM (05RcU)

102 All we had to do in Afghanistan was back the Norther Alliance to the hilt with the explicit understanding that they would eliminate the Taliban and Al Queda (our common enemy), and then not agress against us - in return we'd otherwise leave them the hell alone.

Ultimately, that ought to still be out goal.

Posted by: The Political Hat at September 18, 2012 11:14 AM (sZTYJ)

103 Before we leave, be sure to booby-trap anything important and get GPS coordinates mapped for the rest. It'll make the UAV attacks more efficient later.

Posted by: Roy at September 18, 2012 11:14 AM (VndSC)

104 92
The only thing we should be doing in Afghanistan is quarterly napalm runs on their poppy fields.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 18, 2012 11:12 AM (oihrP)


Amen. And I'm sorry to see you lost your JDICK.

Posted by: Adam at September 18, 2012 11:14 AM (/YJYi)

105 Poppies... Poppies will put them to sleep.

Posted by: Wicked Witch of the West at September 18, 2012 11:14 AM (5MoIO)

106 but Ryan's constant harping on agreeing with the 2014 surrender date is not helpful. He may as well be saying that he agrees with spending soldiers' lives for no good reason since the pullout will happen no matter the outcome. IMO, he needs to stfu about A-stan and stick with what he knows.
Posted by: HtP at September 18, 2012 11:14 AM (jx2j9)

when did he say that?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:15 AM (05RcU)

107 Well if i was running things, I would pack up, do a huge ass B-52 carpet bombing of any area remotely smelling of taliban and...and...have a few SEALs have a little meeting with Hamid Karzai, say thanks for the gumball, put 2 bullets in his head, then split.

Posted by: Berserker at September 18, 2012 11:15 AM (FMbng)

108 It's time to take off the kid gloves. Tell the Muslims that these attacks on America must stop or we will make a movie about the Prophet featuring the satire of Woody Allen and Jon Stewart.

Posted by: WalrusRex at September 18, 2012 11:15 AM (Hx5uv)

109
Has one general resigned based on any policy, procedure or rule that led to the deaths of our soldiers? A resignation based on principle, with the resignation letter stating why? There's a lot of nonsense about the "honor" of our fighting men-maybe for the lower echelon. It sure seems like that word "honor" doesn't mean much to the brass.

Posted by: ejo at September 18, 2012 11:15 AM (kfYyO)

110 have a few SEALs have a little meeting with Hamid Karzai, say thanks for the gumball, put 2 bullets in his head, then split.
Posted by: Berserker at September 18, 2012 11:15 AM (FMbng)


I would not worry about that. 24 hours after we leave he is a dead man

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:16 AM (05RcU)

111 80 In the real world, surrender in Afghanistan would mean it would sooner
or later be converted into the terrorist safe-haven it was before 9/11.



So I'm not sure what this post has to do with reality.

Posted by: Really Dreck at September 18, 2012 11:10 AM (ELEDJ)


If 'ghani is stabilized and we don't need to be there and this is minor, great reduce the forces to 25 advisors and let's come home. You seem to be thrilled with Babi almost tripling the US loss rate and rather cavalier about loss as compared to just 4 short years ago Donkey Doo. I was only for Afghanistan long term in conjunction with an overt presence in Iraq to exert strategic pressure on iran.

Your Chicago Je$u$ undermined that as did your donk ass with Code Pinko.

Bring the troops home and shift to a punitive raid disposition.

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 11:16 AM (LRFds)

112 Has one general resigned based on any policy, procedure or rule that led to the deaths of our soldiers? A resignation based on principle, with the resignation letter stating why? There's a lot of nonsense about the "honor" of our fighting men-maybe for the lower echelon. It sure seems like that word "honor" doesn't mean much to the brass.
Posted by: ejo at September 18, 2012 11:15 AM (kfYyO)

Well General Stanley A. McChrystal kinda did

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:17 AM (05RcU)

113 Well since we've reached post 100 and we aren't going to solve Afghanistan-


New poll-

Florida +1% Romney

Mack (R) Senate +1% (Gravis Marketing)

Posted by: tasker at September 18, 2012 11:18 AM (r2PLg)

114 "Fighting to a deadline was just a marvelous idea, marvelous!"

I ain't buying the deadline/no deadline thing anymore. They're going to try and kill us no matter what.

Posted by: lowandslow at September 18, 2012 11:18 AM (GZitp)

115 when did he say that?Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:15 AM (05RcU)It's been part of his stump speeches for the last two weeks, at least. His (nearly) exact words have been, "We've always agreed with the 2014 exit date...)

Posted by: HtP at September 18, 2012 11:18 AM (jx2j9)

116 The thing about the Senkaku islands is that WE GAVE THEM to Japan. They were administered with the Ryukyu islands by the U.S. from '45 to '72. The islands, as well as Taiwan, used to be "integral" areas of Japan. The Republic of China got Taiwan, and we got the Senkakus and Ryukyus... which we then handed over to Japan.

Frankly, we should have just kept the whole lot (as well as the trust territories).

Posted by: The Political Hat at September 18, 2012 11:18 AM (sZTYJ)

117 I looked it up. Bidenwas favoring counterterror and drones and an end to nation-building. I'm not sure how the Karzai overthrow was to play out but it probably involved raping and dragging.Going to need drone bases outside Afghanistan. Then back to Taliban SOP but with hellfires I guess. Not an idealsituation to be sure.

Posted by: Beagle at September 18, 2012 11:18 AM (sOtz/)

118 110 I would not worry about that. 24 hours after we leave he is a dead man.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:16 AM (05RcU)


I'll light a candle when Chim Chim gets cancelled.

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 11:19 AM (LRFds)

119 #108: Cast Ellen Barkin as Mohammed. She'd make a great goat fucker. Type casting.

Posted by: MoeRon at September 18, 2012 11:19 AM (yWDpP)

120 The time is now for Romney to give a speech saying exactly what Drew says above, and then stand for a presser immediately following.

And a major ad campaign repeating this should be launched on the same day of the speech.

What say you, Mitt?

It's a much bigger winner than the 47% dependency line.

How might the MFM respond?

Posted by: The littl shyning man at September 18, 2012 11:19 AM (0g1j1)

121 All proper respect should be paid to all who have, and continue to give so much in our heroic military, to the mission the were handed, what ever we might think of it now.They did not fail. Politicians, (some of them in highest ranking uniform) failed them.
Posted by: ontherocks at September 18, 2012 11:12 AM (aZ6ew)


THIS. 1000 times THIS.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter at September 18, 2012 11:19 AM (4df7R)

122 If you want victory in Afghanistan you must produce regime change in Iran.

Posted by: eman at September 18, 2012 11:19 AM (Wp4rQ)

123 Both Obama and Romney will withdraw after the election.
Obama just kept Americans dying in Afghanistan for 4 years so he couldn't be accused of being weak.

Obama literally had several thousands of Americans killed and tens of thousands maimed ... to help his campaign.

He didn't believe in the war. He didn't support the war. He didn't talk about the war. He didn't fund the war.

But he wouldn't end the war because he thought that would hurt his election and re-election prospects.

Posted by: Flatbush Joe at September 18, 2012 11:20 AM (ZPrif)

124 I ain't buying the deadline/no deadline thing anymore. They're going to try and kill us no matter what.
Posted by: lowandslow at September 18, 2012 11:18 AM (GZitp)

Believe what you want and in the end it might not have mattered, since they all hate us, but once obama set that rediculous deadline, they knew we were bugging out and they chose sides. And that side was not with us.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:20 AM (05RcU)

125 114 I ain't buying the deadline/no deadline thing anymore. They're going to try and kill us no matter what.

Posted by: lowandslow at September 18, 2012 11:18 AM (GZitp)


There's already a 'deadline" Obama said "sometime between now and 2014', I vote for closer to now...the lying son of a bitch.

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 11:20 AM (LRFds)

126 #108: Cast Ellen Barkin as Mohammed. She'd make a great goat fucker. Type casting.
Posted by: MoeRon at September 18, 2012 11:19 AM (yWDpP)


I think it would be more appropriate to cast her as the goat.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter at September 18, 2012 11:21 AM (4df7R)

127 It's been part of his stump speeches for the last two weeks, at least. His (nearly) exact words have been, "We've always agreed with the 2014 exit date...)
Posted by: HtP at September 18, 2012 11:18 AM (jx2j9)

If you say. but I have not heard that or seen it in print.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:21 AM (05RcU)

128 124 Believe what you want and in the end it might not have mattered, since
they all hate us, but once obama set that rediculous deadline, they knew
we were bugging out and they chose sides. And that side was not with
us.

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:20 AM (05RcU)


Exactly, the deadline thing is spilt milk. Calling whatever the fuck it is Choom is doing CoIn is stupid and a disservice to the Vietnam and first phase WoT vets. Operation sitting duck is more apt.

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 11:22 AM (LRFds)

129 Obama has officially gone French. Next he will have the Mari es service b insurgents wine and cheese. Red or white with your suicide vest?

Fuck Afghanistan. Screw Islam. The hell with SCOAMF.

Posted by: mpfs at September 18, 2012 11:22 AM (UJVy9)

130 Cast Ellen Barkin as Mohammed. She'd make a great goat fucker. Type casting.

Posted by: MoeRon at September 18, 2012 11:19 AM (yWDpP)


Finally! A gig!

Posted by: Ellen Putty Face at September 18, 2012 11:22 AM (g/dfF)

131 I think it would be more appropriate to cast her as the goat.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter at September 18, 2012 11:21 AM (4df7R)


And she doesn't get a drop of lube!

Posted by: Adam at September 18, 2012 11:22 AM (/YJYi)

132 Three things:

1) Judging by the media for the last four years, I wouldn't know we were in AfPak still.

2) Maybe we here at the HQ need to have a semi-serious, near-adult discussion (LOL I know, but sometimes we do have those on important topics).

2a) I posit the following: Only Christianity is capable of defeating Islam. Any attempts to defeat Islam in any other capacity are doomed to failure.

Posted by: Hopeless at September 18, 2012 11:22 AM (xutGe)

133 I think it would be more appropriate to cast her as the goat.

She looks absolutely horrible now. Have you seen her in "The New Normal"? Growing old sucks.

Posted by: EC at September 18, 2012 11:23 AM (GQ8sn)

134
What are these flags made of?

WIN.

and the JDIKC is still swinging, Adam. I'm in a different location.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 18, 2012 11:23 AM (oihrP)

135 122, might have to do something about Pakistan too

Posted by: Jean at September 18, 2012 11:23 AM (wwZVW)

136 You guys have me so depressed I'm going back to playing CIV IV online, even though I'm due in the office in 32 minutes.....

Posted by: Buck Bradley at September 18, 2012 11:23 AM (btqtL)

137 baba yetu yetu yee-ay

further to my last comment.

Posted by: Buck Bradley at September 18, 2012 11:24 AM (btqtL)

138 102 All we had to do in Afghanistan was back the Norther Alliance to the
hilt with the explicit understanding that they would eliminate the
Taliban and Al Queda (our common enemy), and then not agress against us -
in return we'd otherwise leave them the hell alone.



Ultimately, that ought to still be out goal.

Posted by: The Political Hat at September 18, 2012 11:14 AM (sZTYJ)


Pretty much it, the one failing of Bush's foreign policy was his insistence on maintaining imaginary lines on maps.

Iraq and 'ghani both would have been better served breaking up the territory and picking sides.

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 11:24 AM (LRFds)

139 If you say. but I have not heard that or seen it in print.Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:21 AM (05RcU)
http://tinyurl.com/92vr5ah

Posted by: HtP at September 18, 2012 11:24 AM (jx2j9)

140 Ah now I remember that Newsweek cover, didn't it call Afghanistan the good war. Funny I never hear anything about Iraq now

Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at September 18, 2012 11:25 AM (NzBQO)

141 132, what did the Mongols worship? If it involved fermented grains, naked women, lightning, and killing Moslems; I could be tempted.

Posted by: Jean at September 18, 2012 11:25 AM (wwZVW)

142 If you want victory in Afghanistan you must produce regime change in Iran.


---

THIS.

Iran is the Peredo Principle of terrorism. Knock out Iran.... and 80% of your threat goes away.

Ya know.... if you look at a map.... having a succesful military operation in Iraq, and a successful military operation in A-stan, puts two combat ready forces on either flank of the Iraqi's. That would put alot of pressure on Achmawhackjob and the Ayatollahs.

But nooooooo..... the Left had to torpedo both wars for their own political interests, having NEVER played Risk or Stratego.

Posted by: fixerupper at September 18, 2012 11:25 AM (C8hzL)

143 Flatbush Joe,

Exactly. He cannot bear the thought of a real victory so we play games and get killed. No gain, no serious attempt to engage in the exchange of aid for performance by 'ghani just endless goddamned bleeding.

"enough"

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 11:25 AM (LRFds)

144 Posted by: Reality Check at September 18, 2012 11:10 AM (ELEDJ)
It means Bush got a great ROI with better ROE for 8 years, and Barkah has screwed the pooch. Once again:
"Of the 1,912 U.S. militarypersonnel whohavedied inthe nownearly 11-year-longwar in Afghanistan, 1,343havediedsince President BarackObama was inaugurated on Jan. 20, 2009. Seventy percent of the Afghan War casualties have happened on Obama's watch." http://tinyurl.com/7qr26n3

The reality is the guy who promised to fix W's mistakes hasFUBAR'ed in Afghanistan and will do what he does best: bow out. W understood that Afghanistan was a good muj meatgrinder, but it was nothing beyond that.

I'm sure General Barack Hussein Elphinstone considers himself a better general than his own generals, too.

Posted by: 66chevelle at September 18, 2012 11:26 AM (QjSgY)

145 Some days I think we are done overall. I think we gave up on the whole GWOT when the Abu Ghraib thing broke. The spectacle of self-flagellation on that was horrible. And to think that Hackworth was leading that charge to condemn the US, to throw over the war effort just to save one dumbass corporal - it was too much to bear.

If we as a country will let Akin, or Romney acknowledging that some people are committed to voting for someone other than him, be the final epitaph for a Republican campaign, then we deserve all the DOOM we will get.

Posted by: Golan Globus at September 18, 2012 11:26 AM (7vSU0)

146 Pakistani protester dies from inhaling fumes from burning US flag.

I'd call that an 'own goal'.

Hahaha!!!

Posted by: EC at September 18, 2012 11:26 AM (GQ8sn)

147 I think I'll claim disability like one in 18 americans from being forced to play CIV IV online four 12 hours a day by the sheer stress caused by being an American in 2012 who thinks the American President should not have anti-American hatred as the very core of his being: or as Obama might say, the very CORPSE of his being.....

Posted by: Buck Bradley at September 18, 2012 11:26 AM (btqtL)

148 ech... that should read "puts two combat ready forces on either flank of the Iranians."

Posted by: fixerupper at September 18, 2012 11:26 AM (C8hzL)

149 The first thing Obama did after taking office---no, actually his team started before he took office, was to try to negotiate territory with the Taliban. "You guys get this area and this area and so many millions and you leave Karzai alone." "And you Iran...well stop killing our people or we'll cry."
They failed in even that subversive policy. Then they put in ROE designed to get Americans killed without being allowed to shoot back and vetoed all significant military suggestions to "win".

The party that complains that all American wars are imperialist bullying that end in Vietnams have now taken a successful military operation to neutralize an imminent threat and turned it into a complete failure, gotten thousands killed unecessarily and turned the whole thing into a cartoon of Vietnam where there is no mission and the leaders refuse to end it for blurred political reasons. Mission Accomplished. Obviously the entire thing is Bush's and Romney's fault, or so I expect to read on the front page of the NYTs any day now. We should have pulled our people from Karzai's personal security team 4 years ago and never looked back.

Posted by: Daybrother at September 18, 2012 11:27 AM (1FkrP)

150

This is a beautiful new Romney ad, in case anyone missed it:

http://tinyurl.com/8hp9nf4

Posted by: pristine and honest at September 18, 2012 11:27 AM (LpQbZ)

151
and the JDIKC is still swinging, Adam. I'm in a different location.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 18, 2012 11:23 AM (oihrP)


Praise be unto allah!

Posted by: Adam at September 18, 2012 11:27 AM (/YJYi)

152 Sven, redrawing the lines would help in many places, the Brits drew them to make the places unstable without the garrison. Sell it to the libs as the end of colonialism. unfortunately, the third world elite, who personally benefit from the scheme would scream.

Posted by: Jean at September 18, 2012 11:29 AM (wwZVW)

153 Pull everyone out. Leave this notice. First attack that even injures one person that is traced here. We removeone of your citiesfrom the earth. Fuck this. And fuck blaming it on the damn video.

Posted by: Honey Badger the Dense Rethuglican Nazi Bastard at September 18, 2012 11:30 AM (GvYeG)

154 150

This is a beautiful new Romney ad, in case anyone missed it:

http://tinyurl.com/8hp9nf4
Posted by: pristine and honest at September 18, 2012 11:27 AM (LpQbZ)

___________

Holy shit--yikes!!

And Ace was just bit chin' how Romney's ads were not aggressive enough--get a load of THAT!

Ha! Gawd Chris Matthews is gonna have a melt down.

Posted by: tasker at September 18, 2012 11:30 AM (r2PLg)

155 "What are these flags made of?"

A 90/10 blend of Dylon and Gacron

Posted by: 66chevelle at September 18, 2012 11:31 AM (QjSgY)

156 If you say. but I have not heard that or seen it in print.Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:21 AM (05RcU)
http://tinyurl.com/92vr5ah
Posted by: HtP at September 18, 2012 11:24 AM (jx2j9)


A) I wish he had not said that
B) He did not say he would have set a deadline, only that, now having said it, he agrees that by 2014 we should be out--and as I said I wish he had not said that
c) yeah he should keep his mouth shut about things he obviously does not know about
D) yea we are fucked
E) thanks for the link, now I can go shoot myself

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:31 AM (05RcU)

157 But nooooooo..... the Left had to torpedo both wars for their own political interests, having NEVER played Risk or Stratego.Posted by: fixerupper

The Left is only 33% of the US voting pop. America didn't want an extended campaign. We are not a war loving country interested in the kind of colonial occupation necessary. Pile on limited and late COIN, ridiculous ROE, *lawyers* calling the shots, and a public that got back to their normal lives quickly after 2001.

Bush chose Iraq for the wrong reasons and the US wasn't happy with the protracted version of that war. So goes the Republic.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 18, 2012 11:32 AM (3CiXB)

158 Also, apparently Romney saying that the Palestinians are not interested in peace is considered bad.

I have said for a while that Dems prefer their politicians to lie, to tell them what they want to hear.

Posted by: Golan Globus at September 18, 2012 11:32 AM (7vSU0)

159 So here's this guy, Romney. He's not talking about Afghanistan. He's like the skinny white kid in the locker room covering up his little dick. Afraid to say anything.

Then in walks Obama. Towel slung over his shoulder swinging 12 inches of meaty dick. He's kicking ass and taking names. He just took down Bin Laden and is walking the walk.

Look. America doesn't want the skinny white kid who's ashamed of his own unit. They want swagger and big balls. This is why Obama takes the election in a big way.

Posted by: Chris Matthews at September 18, 2012 11:32 AM (IS2o0)

160 "What are these flags made of?"


Braveum and Freedium

Posted by: Daybrother at September 18, 2012 11:33 AM (1FkrP)

161 Holy shit--yikes!!

And Ace was just bit chin' how Romney's ads were not aggressive enough--get a load of THAT!

Ha! Gawd Chris Matthews is gonna have a melt down.
Posted by: tasker at September 18, 2012 11:30 AM (r2PLg)




It has the feel of Reagan's It's Morning in America ad. It feels right.

There's plenty of room for aggressive attacks - esp by Rove, et al's superpacs.

Posted by: pristine and honest at September 18, 2012 11:33 AM (LpQbZ)

162 E) thanks for the link, now I can go shoot myselfPosted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:31 AM (05RcU)Put two bullets in your gun because Romney has said the same thing. (easy to find on google)

Posted by: HtP at September 18, 2012 11:33 AM (jx2j9)

163 160 "What are these flags made of?"



America's revenge.

Posted by: pristine and honest at September 18, 2012 11:34 AM (LpQbZ)

164
The Cult of Hussein as an idol(as a Salafi might say)in Shia islam as practiced in Iran is intersting because Hussein is famous for leading a small band of mujahideen against superior forces, fighting bravelyand being slaughtered. His actions are central to the Shiite mindset.
Which is another reason I think Iran will act rationally if they get nuclear weapons.

Wait.

Posted by: Beagle at September 18, 2012 11:34 AM (sOtz/)

165 E) thanks for the link, now I can go shoot myselfPosted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:31 AM (05RcU)Put two bullets in your gun because Romney has said the same thing. (easy to find on google)
Posted by: HtP at September 18, 2012 11:33 AM (jx2j9)


Maybe I should just go get plastered

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:34 AM (05RcU)

166 That West Point speech plus the Obama admin's attempts to topple Karzai, anyone remember how we screwed the Republic of South Vietnam by toppling their governments, signaled the doom of Afghanistan. Those actions sent a signal to all Afghans that Obama was telling them they were on their own. So Karzai on down they all sought lifelines or fully went over to the other side.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 18, 2012 11:35 AM (qjrXu)

167 @150: Great ad! Definitely pulls no punches on the SCOAMF.

Posted by: Ian S. at September 18, 2012 11:35 AM (B/VB5)

168 It has the feel of Reagan's It's Morning in America ad. It feels right.

There's plenty of room for aggressive attacks - esp by Rove, et al's superpacs.

Posted by: pristine and honest at September 18, 2012 11:33 AM (LpQbZ)

_______________

Wait..did I watch the richt ad?

Pretty hard to get more aggressive than the ad I watched.

Posted by: tasker at September 18, 2012 11:36 AM (r2PLg)

169 richt=right

Posted by: tasker at September 18, 2012 11:36 AM (r2PLg)

170 152 Sven, redrawing the lines would help in many places, the Brits drew them
to make the places unstable without the garrison. Sell it to the libs
as the end of colonialism. unfortunately, the third world elite, who
personally benefit from the scheme would scream.

Posted by: Jean at September 18, 2012 11:29 AM (wwZVW)


Yup. They don't really hate colonialism of course they just want their thugs in charge. You can knock or flip some of their sheepbots though with that rhetoric.

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 11:37 AM (LRFds)

171 I have said for a while that Dems prefer their politicians to lie, to tell them what they want to hear.

---

It's perfectly fair. The Democrats don't tell the truth and the Republicans aren't allowed to tell the truth.

Posted by: WalrusRex at September 18, 2012 11:38 AM (Hx5uv)

172 As I recall, in Afghanistan, we were kicking ass and taking names (okay, not taking names) right up until we turned things over to NATO. At that point, the rules of engagement changed, not to mention willingness to actually fight (not by our team, but by NATO), and that's when everything turned to crap. Since then, it's been years of trying to pretend the "international force" was capable of finding its own butt with both hands and a flashlight. It's not.
When the U.S. is serious about kicking the crap out of someone, crap is kicked out in ways the world couldn't imagine and on the quick, thanks to the best armed forces the world has ever known (suck it, Sparta).
When the civilians try to make nice-nice with the international community is when things go badly. Just ask all those Bosnian muslims who were being protected by NATO forces, thefemales raped by NATO peacekeepers (and that's just the goats), and so on.

Posted by: OCBill at September 18, 2012 11:39 AM (YJvVE)

173 Speaking of that Romney ad--what is ironic is--

Operation Prairie Fire was an air attack by the US on Libya in 1986.

Posted by: tasker at September 18, 2012 11:39 AM (r2PLg)

174 Maybe I should just go get plastered

Meh.

Even GW gave withdrawal dates for Iraq- which we held to, by the way. There's a difference between "we are definitely leaving on X date," and "we're targeting X date for withdrawal."

With GW (and I'm extending this, provisionally, to R/R) you knew it was "this is a target date, but we'll adjust based on facts on the ground." With TFG, you have a much greater worry that it's "we're definitely leaving, mark your calendars and make sure you have your shoulder mounted missiles ready."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at September 18, 2012 11:39 AM (8y9MW)

175 The most shocking thing about the Romney tape is that it's linked to Jimmy Carter's grandson.....



Who the hell schtupped Amy!?

Posted by: Tami at September 18, 2012 11:40 AM (X6akg)

176 That kid in the Drudge headline pic stole my HK45!

Little fucker owes me.

Posted by: The littl shyning man at September 18, 2012 11:40 AM (0g1j1)

177 157
The Left is only 33% of the US voting pop. America didn't want an
extended campaign. We are not a war loving country interested in the
kind of colonial occupation necessary. Pile on limited and late COIN,
ridiculous ROE, *lawyers* calling the shots, and a public that got back
to their normal lives quickly after 2001.

Bush chose Iraq for the wrong reasons and the US wasn't happy with the protracted version of that war. So goes the Republic.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 18, 2012 11:32 AM (3CiXB)


Bush didn't choose Iraq "for the wrong reasons" he chose it for the most sound reasons period. He screwed up not confessing to his motivation and defending the necessity of a robust presence and allowed the kabuki theater on WMDS* to undermine the war. Hell if ANYTHING he should have allied with India and kept as small a footprint in 'ghani as possible to put pressure long term on Pock-ee-stan.

Iraq is the most strategic spot in the ME.

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 11:40 AM (LRFds)

178 I've been in the "get out / Afghanistan last" camp for a long time. I would have preferred we not give the enemy such an obvious PR victory when it happened.

Thanks, Obama, for nothing. I really wonder where your motivations vis a vis are...(actually, no, I don't).

Posted by: Tonic Dog at September 18, 2012 11:41 AM (X/+QT)

179 Pull everyone out. Leave this notice. First attack that even injures one person that is traced here. We removeone of your citiesfrom the earth. Fuck this. And fuck blaming it on the damn video.
Posted by: Honey Badger the Dense Rethuglican Nazi Bastard at September 18, 2012 11:30 AM (GvYeG)


I was thinking something like:"Dear Afghanis,

We're leaving, but let this be your first and only notice. The first act of terrorism that has any ties to your "country" will result in the bombing of one populated area and the destruction of your government centers.
The next act of terrorism that has any ties to your "country" will result in the bombing of TWO populated areas and the destruction of your government centers (again).

The next act of terrorism that has any ties to your "country" will result in the bombing of three OR MORE populated areas (at our discretion and with no prior warning) and the utter annihilation of your government centers.

This will continue until Afghanistan stops sponsoring, sheltering, and exporting terrorism, or until Afghanistan is nothing but a smoking crater and a bad memory.

Sincerely,
The United States of America"

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter at September 18, 2012 11:41 AM (4df7R)

180 Derb (remember him b4 he got too un-PC?) and George Will had the right idea all along. Keep special forces nearby, but no permanent boots on the ground. Attack with overwhelming force any place where terrorists congregate. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.

Posted by: Gerry at September 18, 2012 11:41 AM (4QcdE)

181 Operation Prairie Fire was an air attack by the US on Libya in 1986.

Posted by: tasker at September 18, 2012 11:39 AM (r2PLg)
==========


If this is true, then somebody in Romney's campaign is doing their homework. And, awesome.

Posted by: pristine and honest at September 18, 2012 11:41 AM (LpQbZ)

182
I can't view the new Romney ad.

What's its title?

Posted by: Ed Anger at September 18, 2012 11:42 AM (tOkJB)

183 Tasker, much prefer to remember Operation ElDorado Canyon. F-111Fs from the UK sending a message to Gaddafi, stop the terror junk. Got one of Gaddafi's kids in the strike. We also lost an F-111F on the mission.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 18, 2012 11:42 AM (qjrXu)

184 Is Kabuki anything like bukakke?

Posted by: Sandra Flukes Punch Box at September 18, 2012 11:43 AM (/YJYi)

185 That Romney debt prairie fire ad is a carryover from this speech... http://youtu.be/wVwIs9vAPpQ

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 11:44 AM (LRFds)

186 two things make my blood boil

1. illegal invaders/anchor babies a.k.a fraudulent citizens

2. election fraud

and these two things are unraveling our republic more than anything else

John Fund was just on with Glenn talking about voter fraud.

Posted by: soothsayer states the obvious at September 18, 2012 11:45 AM (0nyYS)

187 What's its title?
Posted by: Ed Anger at September 18, 2012 11:42 AM (tOkJB)


______________


Ed try Prairie Fire. ( I'm going to go see if there is a direct link on you tube.

_________________

183 Tasker, much prefer to remember Operation ElDorado Canyon. F-111Fs from the UK sending a message to Gaddafi, stop the terror junk. Got one of Gaddafi's kids in the strike. We also lost an F-111F on the mission.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 18, 2012 11:42 AM (qjrXu)

___________________

Yes, very successful..was that Thatcher-?

Posted by: tasker at September 18, 2012 11:46 AM (r2PLg)

188 I can't view the new Romney ad.

What's its title?
Posted by: Ed Anger at September 18, 2012 11:42 AM (tOkJB)



===



Prairie Fire

Posted by: pristine and honest at September 18, 2012 11:46 AM (LpQbZ)

189 Even GW gave withdrawal dates for Iraq- which we held to, by the way. There's a difference between "we are definitely leaving on X date," and "we're targeting X date for withdrawal."

With GW (and I'm extending this, provisionally, to R/R) you knew it was "this is a target date, but we'll adjust based on facts on the ground." With TFG, you have a much greater worry that it's "we're definitely leaving, mark your calendars and make sure you have your shoulder mounted missiles ready."
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at September 18, 2012 11:39 AM (8y9MW)


President Bush always said the Commanders on the ground had final say about tactical decision and all dates were fluid. In addition he gave those Commanders mostly what ever they asked for. Big difference between that and the drop dead date obama announced 3 years in advance so our enemies knew exactly how to proceed

Posted by: Nevergiveup at September 18, 2012 11:47 AM (05RcU)

190 This entire piece is proof that people who have no idea what they are talking about should STFU.

"What the hell is going on over there"? It's called war, which is ugly and unpredictable.

By the way, ISAF does not want to put people in harms way when there is already a problem. In this particular case the video is not an excuse. It is part of the reasoning for heightened vigilance and therefore a sound call.

Posted by: Exile at September 18, 2012 11:49 AM (GGCsk)

191

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSvKLS6hqZ8&feature=player_embedded

youtube direct link to prairie fire ad

Posted by: pristine and honest at September 18, 2012 11:49 AM (LpQbZ)

192 Thatcher that was in power at the time and we used those bases--just read where the French wouldn't let us use their air space. peachy.

Posted by: tasker at September 18, 2012 11:49 AM (r2PLg)

193
Thanks. I found it on National Journal. Good ad.

Posted by: Ed Anger at September 18, 2012 11:50 AM (tOkJB)

194 Interesting. Wasn't "Prairie Fire" the title of Bill Ayers' book?

Posted by: rickl at September 18, 2012 11:50 AM (zoehZ)

195 Hell if ANYTHING he should have allied with India
and kept as small a footprint in 'ghani as possible to put pressure long
term on Pock-ee-stan.Iraq is the most strategic spot in the ME.Posted by: Sven10077


Paki is definitely the crux of the problem but the fact is the India isn't willing to take the lead especially for us. We asked them to help us with the Soviets, then with China, then with Af/Pak.

You know their answer?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 18, 2012 11:50 AM (3CiXB)

196
and what's the mission over there, Exile?

Posted by: soothsayer states the obvious at September 18, 2012 11:50 AM (CXoSL)

197 Ed-

Here is a direct youtube link-

http://youtu.be/RSvKLS6hqZ8

The ad is called Prairie Fire.

Posted by: tasker at September 18, 2012 11:53 AM (r2PLg)

198 194 Interesting. Wasn't "Prairie Fire" the title of Bill Ayers' book?
Posted by: rickl at September 18, 2012 11:50 AM (zoehZ)

__________


Ya, I seem to recall that--or by his little Weatherman group.

Posted by: tasker at September 18, 2012 11:54 AM (r2PLg)

199 Re: GM

Chickens coming home to roost...

Like Iran threatening an Obama lawsuit due to the "film."

How many more chickens have to come home to roost before the voters realize they are being pecked to death?

Posted by: chicken fodder at September 18, 2012 11:54 AM (LpQbZ)

200 meh, wrong thread

Posted by: chicken fodder at September 18, 2012 11:55 AM (LpQbZ)

201
You've Come A Long Way Baby Afghanistan Update: First female car bomber kills a dozen South Africans.
Just saw at Jihad Watch. That's their idea of progress.

Posted by: Beagle at September 18, 2012 11:55 AM (sOtz/)

202 ugh need coffee *weathermen* some kind of communist manifesto--

Posted by: tasker at September 18, 2012 11:56 AM (r2PLg)

203 Big difference between that and the drop dead date obama announced 3 years in advance so our enemies knew exactly how to proceed

Well, yes. My point is that I'm willing to extend the Benefit of the Doubt to R/R over the withdrawal date: I'm much more willing to believe that they'll listen to their commanders on the ground and be much more flexible in the exact withdrawal date.

It doesn't bother me if they're saying, "Yeah, we've accepted that date," because I'm relatively certain there is an implicit or explicit "based on facts on the ground" attached to it.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at September 18, 2012 11:56 AM (8y9MW)

204 >>It's perfectly fair. The Democrats don't tell the truth and the Republicans aren't allowed to tell the truth.
Posted by: WalrusRex at September 18, 2012 11:38 AM (Hx5uv)
Agreed, and I would go further.
Since the full onslaught of unabashed MFM tongue baths for SCOAMF and lashings for anything countering their wetdreams, it has occurred to me that almost nothing in our culture is as reported, even sports, and weather/climate.This is the degree to which our legacy media communications posse has been hijacked and ransacked.
Often times the narrative is designed to be the diametric opposite of the truth.Orwell was truly a fucking genius.And thank God for these interlinked tube things that bring us our dispatches of reality.
























Posted by: ontherocks at September 18, 2012 11:56 AM (aZ6ew)

205 That was NOT at all the way my comment looked to me.
Funny that.

Posted by: ontherocks at September 18, 2012 11:58 AM (aZ6ew)

206 The mission? How about you look it up?

"In support of the Government of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan,
ISAF conducts operations in Afghanistan to reduce the capability and
will of the insurgency, support the growth in capacity and capability of
the Afghan National Security Forces (ANSF), and facilitate improvements
in governance and socio-economic development in order to provide a
secure environment for sustainable stability that is observable to the
population."

In a nutshell, to kill anyone that wants to attack us again, convince the remainder it's a bad idea and leave enough of shell government standing that it won't happen.

Posted by: Exile at September 18, 2012 11:59 AM (GGCsk)

207 It was the third Prairie Fire mission off Mad Dog Station that started the road to El Dorado Canyon. On March 24 SA-5 missiles were fired at F-14A Tomcats. US Navy retaliated.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 18, 2012 11:59 AM (qjrXu)

208 I know at least since July 2011 that the Taliban had taken over the kids who were required to go into the Army. It was like teaching the enemy our tricks.

Time to go, throw a bomb if anything happens, blow the entire country up. I would have done that on 9/12/2001, no coalitions, nothing. Bomb the place to oblivion. We would have lost no American lives there.

Posted by: CarolT at September 18, 2012 12:02 PM (z4WKX)

209 190
This entire piece is proof that people who have no idea what they are talking about should STFU.

"What the hell is going on over there"? It's called war, which is ugly and unpredictable.

By
the way, ISAF does not want to put people in harms way when there is
already a problem. In this particular case the video is not an excuse.
It is part of the reasoning for heightened vigilance and therefore a
sound call.

Posted by: Exile at September 18, 2012 11:49 AM (GGCsk)


What's going on over there is not war it is codified stupid senseless bloodletting on our part by a set of RoE so dumb it should be called treason.


Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 12:03 PM (LRFds)

210
That's not a mission, it's a littany of impractical goals.

Posted by: soothsayer states the obvious at September 18, 2012 12:06 PM (4J57v)

211 195 Paki is definitely the crux of the problem but the fact is the India
isn't willing to take the lead especially for us. We asked them to help
us with the Soviets, then with China, then with Af/Pak.

You know their answer?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 18, 2012 11:50 AM (3CiXB)

Absolutely, and you know their answer on the War on Terror?

it was not the same.

India gave us all data at once unsolicited on AQ infiltration in Paki and 'ghani and offered a longer term alliance if we would include her as a "Senior Nuclear Power"....

we refused.

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 12:08 PM (LRFds)

212 We can launch drones off of ships.
We don't need a base in the middle of savages...
I say we get out and blow up the know terrorist
camps.....

And cut-off ALL foreign aid to ALL Muslim countries....
The Chinese don't like Muslim's and neither do the Russian's.....Russia will "help" Iran - but we know what that means.

Stop sending food, stop helping these countries when natural disasters strike. Time to kick out all the diplomats from Muslim countries.

These people can never be our friends.

We need to fuck them up - every which way but loose.

Posted by: izoneguy at September 18, 2012 12:08 PM (oKH8p)

213 India gave us all data at once unsolicited on AQ
infiltration in Paki and 'ghani and offered a longer term alliance if we
would include her as a "Senior Nuclear Power"....
we refused.Posted by: Sven10077


We'll I'm glad we have our priorities straight, or something.

Bush decried nation-building during his election campaign, and yet, we're to believe that remaking the mid-east into a Jeffersonian wonderland was do-able.

That's why I was amused to see Oblamo take credit for the Arab Spring. He can't turn around put blame on Bush w/o looking like the SCoaFM that he is.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 18, 2012 12:15 PM (3CiXB)

214 ba da dum!

http://bit.ly/Puienq

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at September 18, 2012 12:16 PM (piMMO)

215 Part of the issue is that the Afghanis wanted their King back but the State Dept said we weren't in the business of creating monarchies so Karzai was the "compromise". I don't even have an educated guess as to how,or if, things would have been different if we'd listened.

Posted by: Polliwogette, Teahada hobbit who wants some R&R at September 18, 2012 12:16 PM (chdbY)

216 The idea of fixing Afghanistan was about as practical as developing luxury condos at the fucking dump.

Just take a look at Karzai or Gen Dempsey in his favorite dress blues. They look like competing concierges at adjacent hotels in some Asian capital.

Nothing has been right about this mess since the success of the initial CIA ops and the toppling of the Taliban.

What a friggin' nightmare these developments are for those who have served in that hell hole.

God help them with this.

Posted by: ontherocks at September 18, 2012 12:17 PM (aZ6ew)

217 Ras R47%-O46% Swingers' poll

http://tinyurl.com/8ecfa2c

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 12:18 PM (LRFds)

218

"Six harriers destroyed on the ground? What the hell is going on over there?"
All just a misunderstanding. This was a new Green Marines downsizing exercise. We'll be replacing all those gas-guzzling Harriers with clean Chevy Volts. Look for the Union Label!

Posted by: GalosGann at September 18, 2012 12:19 PM (T3KlW)

219 "What the hell is going on over there?"

Soft power, baby. They like us now!

Posted by: Dear Leader Barry at September 18, 2012 12:20 PM (DQHjw)

220 #201: That really IS good news....at least that bitch won't breed any more.

Posted by: MoeRon at September 18, 2012 12:20 PM (yWDpP)

221 I think this was COIN in name only for a long time. How long does it take to "train" bunch of soldiers?

We never committed to enforcing our victory there, so they never committed to us. They knew the Taliban and their eternal war better than we did.

Posted by: PJ at September 18, 2012 12:21 PM (DQHjw)

222 <i>"REPORT: Pakistani protester dies after inhaling fumes from burning U.S. flag..."



What are these flags made of?</i>

Bacon.

Posted by: GalosGann at September 18, 2012 12:21 PM (T3KlW)

223 "You've Come A Long Way Baby Afghanistan Update: First female car bomber kills a dozen South Africans."

Something tells me that the big problem here is trying to sell the "72 virgins" pitch to a woman is usually a non-starter.

I mean, what woman wants to spend eternity with an MD-80's worth of awkward, fumbling high-school juniors?

Posted by: reason at September 18, 2012 12:21 PM (RQDhf)

224 207 It was the third Prairie Fire mission off Mad Dog Station that started the road to El Dorado Canyon. On March 24 SA-5 missiles were fired at F-14A Tomcats. US Navy retaliated.
Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 18, 2012 11:59 AM (qjrXu)

______________

Thanks--damn you know your stuff.

I was guessing it was Mitterand that wouldn't let us use French air space but it looks like that was the beginning of-- Chirac.

Posted by: tasker at September 18, 2012 12:24 PM (r2PLg)

225 Hell, I wouldn't trust half of my nominal fellow citizens not to betray America, never mind foreigners, and most particularly Muslims.

Posted by: Jay Guevara at September 18, 2012 12:24 PM (oX7vY)

226 http://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/2012/09/18/oil-prices-extends-slide/

Oil down gas prices up....

Saudi is now pumping 10 million BpD to try to help Ogabe

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 12:27 PM (LRFds)

227
So Bush has ultimate success in Iraq - and he never hears the end of the it.

Obama can Lose Afghanistan - and it's no big deal.

Posted by: Fresh at September 18, 2012 12:29 PM (O7ksG)

228 Tasker, good reference material.

Posted by: Anna Puma (+SmuD) at September 18, 2012 12:31 PM (qjrXu)

229 To rebuild a country, you HAVE to rebuild the society... and unlike WWII Germany and Japan... where we revamped their SOCIETYS (even religions) we were not willing to do that in Afganistan, nor Iraq....

What IS scary however, is that this validates much of what Osama Bin L wrote about the West... and how to destroy it... this will be seen as a win for Islam, and the Salafi's.... all because of our gutless leaders.

Posted by: Romeo13 at September 18, 2012 12:32 PM (lZBBB)

230
Six Harriers destroyed on the ground is all about a lack of training, a lack of security ...and about militarily invalid ROE.
If you go to war, you kill people and break things. Period. Dot. End of discussion.
Destroy the enemy's will to fight. Destroy his ability to fight. Make the rubble bounce. Steal (loot) his gold, silver, and any other portable valuables...and come home.
War is death, destruction and horror. Once the war begins, political policiesbecome secondary to military strategies and tactics. If your political policies do not include visiting complete death, destruction and horror upon your enemies, you have no valid reason to go to war. You will, in fact, lose that war.
Don't go to war, or send your men and women to war, unless you're serious about it...serious about visiting death and destruction and horror upon your enemies, before they do the same to you.
Don't piss on them, put the boots to them.

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at September 18, 2012 12:32 PM (WwR1j)

231 http://video.foxnews.com/v/1847414521001/
Foxnews Mitt Romney vidclip bit

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 12:33 PM (LRFds)

232 It's worth bringing up again that we half-assed the surge in Afghanistan. Obama didn't implement Petraeus's plan--he drastically reduced the number of troops Petraeus requested (if I remember correctly on Joe Biden's advice). Petraeus considered resigning afterwards.

This was not inevitable. If we had implemented his plan, I we had not given a finite end date, we could have had a different result. You can call leaving a victory--but after the widespread belief that in the Middle East that we lost the first Gulf War because we didn't follow through on Hussein (yes, I know that's retarded, but that's what they regarded it as), that we were weak because we bailed out of Somalia, that we were weak because we left Lebanon--I seriously doubt they'll regard it as that, and that's what's important if we don't want to appear weak, if we don't other terrorists encouraged in the belief that we're a paper tiger. I know, I know, "we'll just whack them every time that happens." that'll show them we're strong! Everybody knows we aren't going to level cities and without on the ground intelligence, it's going to be difficult to stop terrorists there or know where to whack somebody in retaliation when they do strike.

A day will come when we'll regret this.

Posted by: AD at September 18, 2012 12:33 PM (GDacv)

233 I could give a f#ck what TFG thinks. I want to hear my new President-in-waiting's thoughts are.

Really, Rombley should start leaking policy statements, gaffe-style, so the general public can hear them via outraged MFM coverage.

Posted by: sTevo at September 18, 2012 12:33 PM (uIz80)

234 Bring them home. 2014 can't come soon enough. Talking about winning or losing Afganistan isn't helpful because there's nothing to win there.

Posted by: Jordan at September 18, 2012 12:37 PM (RSG1I)

235 Posted by: Jordan at September 18, 2012 12:37 PM (RSG1I)

Hi Jordan. Is the Texas Legislature still in session?

Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 18, 2012 12:42 PM (3CiXB)

236 93 I liked this one: REPORT: Pakistani protester dies after inhaling fumes from burning U.S. flag...

______________

Maybe the asshat burned a polyurethane flag.

Inshalla. Allah willed THAT. Allah must suck.

Posted by: rickb223 at September 18, 2012 12:42 PM (vzjXk)

237 polynikes @33:
"The COIN can not operate unless you have full cooperation with the leaders. The majority ofleaders in Afghanistan have hedged their bets long ago.A chain will not work ifthe masterlink is missing."
---------------------------------------------------------------

Gee, I wonder why any ally of the U.S. would want to hedge their bets....?

Posted by: Kathy from Kansas at September 18, 2012 12:46 PM (F0o5k)

238 it's going to be difficult to stop terrorists there or know where to whack somebody in retaliation when they do strike.

Pretty easy -- just retaliate against some terrorists you DO have good intel on. When they get tired of getting beat up, they'll go find the ones you wanted originally and take care of them for you.

Posted by: @PurpAv at September 18, 2012 12:47 PM (Qva0e)

239 Never did put much faith in the "winning the hearts and minds" bullshit. Good read.

Posted by: snowcrash at September 18, 2012 12:54 PM (I30qo)

240 We need to adopt a set of runs that allows the retaliation against friends, family and goats of terrorist.

Posted by: sTevo at September 18, 2012 12:59 PM (hiMsy)

241 I listened to the bleeding hearts on this. I had hopes that they could step out of their savagery to become civilized and turn back the talibums and warlords.
I was wrong.
"I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." - Ripley [she's got a point there]

Posted by: chuck in st paul at September 18, 2012 01:01 PM (EhYdw)

242 I've had a bad feeling about A-stan for some time now. And by "bad feeling', I mean a '6th Army at Stalingrad' kind of bad feeling.

Posted by: Victrola at September 18, 2012 01:01 PM (X3Y9c)

243 I think that Bush knews Afghanistan could not be civilized, that's why he kept the war small and moved on to Iraq. Liberals (including Obama) complained that Afghanistan was the real war, so Bush gave them what they wanted.

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at September 18, 2012 01:02 PM (71iUa)

244 Goats = emams
I don't know what I was thinking.

Posted by: sTevo at September 18, 2012 01:02 PM (uIz80)

245 I don't know what I was thinking.

We demand an immediate apology and retraction, or you'll face a suit for libel.

Posted by: Goats Local, 2002 at September 18, 2012 01:06 PM (8y9MW)

246 Never did put much faith in the "winning the hearts and minds" bullshit. Good read.

Posted by: snowcrash at September 18, 2012 12:54 PM


I prefer to think that if our military went in to do what military forces are supposed to do, which is stomp the ever-loving shit out of the enemy, in the most rapid, efficient and low-friendly-casualty way, we wouldn't have to worry about all that "hearts and minds" drivel.

I simply want to deprive Osama Obama of the ability to transform any more corpsmen into "corpsemen." Our soldiers are too good, and too friggin' important to us, to expose to combat when being controlled by General Choom Boy.

Posted by: MrScribbler at September 18, 2012 01:08 PM (ZgX/g)

247 So what is the deal with the blind cleric? Anyone think we trade him for the *ahem* soldier Bergdahl? There have been a few reports of talks behind the scenes about getting him released. Truthfully, I don't care about Bergdal, he walked away from his post in civilian clothes but obviously this admin considers him a valuable PR coup if they gain his release. Just random thoughts tying 2 unrelated events together.

Posted by: snowcrash at September 18, 2012 01:09 PM (I30qo)

248
sTevo @ 240:

We need to adopt a set of runs that allows the retaliation against friends, family and goats of terrorist.

The Soviets were good at this, back in the day. They always had excellent human intelligence programs, and when, in Lebanon, I believe, two Soviet military attache's were attacked, (one was killed, the other kidnapped), the Soviets delivered a duffel bag with the severed heads of the kidnappers immediate family members to the house their man was being held at.

Brutal, but effective.

Posted by: Axeltoad at September 18, 2012 01:10 PM (L7hol)

249 So what is the deal with the blind cleric? Anyone think we trade him for the *ahem* soldier Bergdahl?

At this point, I think "nothing." There is nothing that the terrorists could/would give us that would be worth the release of the Blind Sheik, so to do so would be disastrous for the Obama Campaign.

If they do release him, though, it will be for "promises" of some kind. Of course, one of the other things Islam teaches is that it's okay, even encouraged, to lie to your enemies, but they're hoping you won't notice that.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at September 18, 2012 01:12 PM (8y9MW)

250 # 247

They should give him a sex change operation first. The whole nine yards. Huge rack too, of course, then send him/it/her back to Egypt.

Posted by: Axeltoad at September 18, 2012 01:12 PM (L7hol)

251 Damn Axel-sock.

Posted by: Sticky Wicket at September 18, 2012 01:13 PM (L7hol)

252 Petraeus considered resigning? Once again, who cares-he didn't do it, thus putting his seal of approval on anything that followed. Rules of engagement killing people. Rules re contact with Afghan soldiers killing people. And all our generals can do is sit there dreaming about their pensions, defense contractor jobs upon retirement, and considering resigning but immediately putting it out of their heads because of 1 and 2.

Posted by: ejo at September 18, 2012 01:15 PM (kfYyO)

253 >Six harriers destroyed on the ground? What the hell is going on over there?


A disengaged Commander in Chief. His only focus is... himself.

Posted by: Jones in CO at September 18, 2012 01:20 PM (8sCoq)

254 Obama's lead among RV's is down to 1 in today's Gallup. Washington Post came out with a poll showing Obama leading in Virginia by 8 - with a +9 Dem advantage in party identification (2008 was D +6, and I think 2010 was even) - some of these "polls" are laughable.

Posted by: tofer732 at September 18, 2012 01:21 PM (2zM0P)

255 Once again, who cares-he didn't do it, thus putting his seal of approval on anything that followed.

The military executes a lot of orders they don't necessarily approve of. That's the nature of chain of command. You cover your ass with a memo and maybe a power point presentation, and when overruled you go do as you've been instructed.

Posted by: @PurpAv at September 18, 2012 01:22 PM (Qva0e)

256 We could have won this but president Bush couldn't have another term. So we got a man in office who wanted it to fail, and started to screw with the rules of engagement like our guys had to suffer under in Vietnam. With the same results. For a few years we had a president who understood and let the military do its job, we had men in charge who learned from the Vietnam years and didn't make those same mistakes.

Well those guys are retired and we have a president making exactly the same mistakes with a staff of military leaders who don't know how bad this is and can't do anything about it if they did know.

We lost. Again. Because of treachery by the Democrats, again. Now all those men died for nothing, all that money was spent for nothing, all those hours of sacrifice were for nothing because miserable sons of bitches in Washington DC were more interested in their political future and their PC experiments than helping the Afghani people, the honor and dignity of our soldiers, and doing the job right.

And this simply enrages me, to the point of seeing red. It drives me to that horrible burning pain in my gut that I try to avoid by not reading political sites too much. That feeling of impotent fury, the inability to do anything, of watching injustice and evil and being helpless to make it stop.

The world is so full of that and it is so difficult to bear some times. I can't even imagine what its like to be one of those soldiers or their family. What its like to see this happen and have it done to you.

There is a special place in hell for the Democrats and what they've done in the war on terror.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at September 18, 2012 01:33 PM (r4wIV)

257 The Day Counterinsurgency Died

Bye, bye, Miss American Pie
Drove my Humvee to the levee
But the levee was dry

Posted by: Cobalt Shiva at September 18, 2012 01:35 PM (1iauC)

258 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at September 18, 2012 01:37 PM (6o4Fb)

259 In the real world, surrender in Afghanistan would mean it would sooner or later be converted into the terrorist safe-haven it was before 9/11.

Yes. So what?


Is it so much better that we have terrorist safe-havens and training camps in Mali, in Malaysia, in Tunisia, in Egypt, in Somalia, in Syria, in Dagestan, in Palestine, in Pakistan, in Uzbekistan,in Azerbaijan, in Yemen, in Libya, in Niger, in Lebanon, in Indonesia, in the Maldives, in China, in Chechnya, the United Kingdom and Sweden, but not Afghanistan?


Really who gives a hoot about barren moonscapes and poppy fields in Afghanistan? It's a rural region between Iran and Pakistan, either of which might be a threat, but not Afghanistan.


We've shaken their shit up enough that they'll be busy fighting each other for at least 2 decades and probably 6.

There are, and always have been safe havens all over the world, we should concentrate our efforts on only the interests that are actually worth it. We cannot police the world. They've been hating on us for 60 years, they only managed 1 911, on USsoiltheir mortality rate is lower than deaths inflicted from white tail deer and/or Big Macs.

Posted by: entropy at September 18, 2012 01:37 PM (TULs6)

260 Did that break the whole blog? WTF lousy comment format thing.

Posted by: entropy at September 18, 2012 01:39 PM (TULs6)

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 01:44 PM (LRFds)

262 fixed

Posted by: Sven10077 at September 18, 2012 01:44 PM (LRFds)

263 123

Posted by: entropy at September 18, 2012 01:44 PM (TULs6)

264 "What in the hell is going on over there?"

Barky wrote the ROE.

Any Taliban who gets caught and knows it can simply throw down his gun and walk away. Buy another gun, and return to the fight.


Posted by: Kristophr at September 18, 2012 01:46 PM (0aV2C)

265 Afghanistan is going to turn into a Taliban-controlled terrorist training camp again. However, next time we have to deal with them, the response should be to show up like the fist of God, obliterate them like we did before, then point at the Afghani people and say "don't make us mad again, or we'll be back" and leave them to rebuild their rubble.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at September 18, 2012 01:54 PM (r4wIV)

266
"Afghanistan is going to turn into a Taliban-controlled terrorist training camp again."
Except the Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11. Put things in perspective. Afghanistan is huge, it's the size of Texas, and it's a highly rural wasteland. Not hard for a bunch of Arabs to hide out. Certainly a few Afghans knew that they were there, but they didn't know why or what was going on. Literally maybe a handful did know, I meanliterally a couple people....
The Taliban are a bunch of islamist turds for sure... but that doesn't make them terrorists. If they want to beat their wives and keep kids from flying their kites, hey, whatever, they suck but that isn't my problem. Taliban never had any beef with us until we went over there. Over a decade later and thousands of our men dead. Why? The original problem - Al Qaeda - got dispersed like a bunch of ants at Tora Bora.
My only qualm with leaving is the many people we have made promises to that will be left very high and very dry. I would grant such people political asylum in the USA, pack up, and leave tomorrow. Don't even waste money packing up stuff that isn't worth the gas it costs to move. Take what's valuable and leave the rest, peace out.

Posted by: Andrew at September 18, 2012 03:16 PM (HS3dy)

267 "Six harriers destroyed on the ground? What the hell is going on over there?"

Aircraft aren't inflammable nor bulletproof, and while parked are highly vulnerable to explosives.

BTW which is it? "OMG we lost equipment" or "Time to bug out and leave what we can't carry"?

Posted by: Chris Balsz at September 18, 2012 03:28 PM (3GtyG)

268 "Except the Taliban had nothing to do with 9/11. Put things in perspective. Afghanistan is huge, it's the size of Texas, and it's a highly rural wasteland. Not hard for a bunch of Arabs to hide out. Certainly a few Afghans knew that they were there, but they didn't know why or what was going on. Literally maybe a handful did know, I meanliterally a couple people...."

Except, when Bush was banging a war drum in 2001 saying "Either you're for us or against us" the Taliban stood up and declared those pesky unknown anti-American building-burners were staying put in Taliban-controlled territory, thank you.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at September 18, 2012 03:29 PM (3GtyG)

269 "And this simply enrages me, to the point of seeing red. It drives me to that horrible burning pain in my gut that I try to avoid by not reading political sites too much. That feeling of impotent fury, the inability to do anything, of watching injustice and evil and being helpless to make it stop. "

Save it for the next fight on US soil.

Posted by: Chris Balsz at September 18, 2012 03:30 PM (3GtyG)

270 The day we gave up on Afghanistan was the day we elected Oblahblah,

Posted by: Bob at September 18, 2012 04:02 PM (tunmH)

271 "...Beyond blowing up a bunch of al Qaeda types who are stupid enough to gather in groups of 3 or more, they can have the damn place..."

Amen.

And I say, let's make the first guy who manages to prevent ALL immigration AND travel from ANY muslim country, the next king. As a bonus, if a muslim leaves to visit mom and the goats, he cannot come back. Period. You want to stop terrorism? Keep the fucking rag heads the fuck out of the country they want into so they can destroy it. Pretty simple, huh Washington? No need to cripple our men in a bullshit "war"; just keep them ALL out of here. That reduces the threat about 99%

What's that? What about diversity? Fuck that. Their stupid fucking how-to-conquer-the-world koran tells them to lie in order to succeed. How the hell ANY of them are ever believed, is a mystery only diversity can solve...

Posted by: Sweep the leg at September 18, 2012 06:08 PM (jTw+z)

272 @ 256

"...We could have won this but president Bush couldn't have another term..."

Could have "won" what??

They are soulless, 7th century savages, who do not WANT to eat Micky D's, and listen to I Tunes.

They are ruled over, in a savage way, for a reason. They are not civilized, and have no concept of it, even after you shove it down their throats.

Yes, Obama fucked things up. He did that because he was brought up to love islam, and hate america. ..

Posted by: Sweep the leg at September 18, 2012 06:14 PM (jTw+z)

273 Could have "won" what??

The rebuilding. We were, for a while. Things were calm, schools were being built, it was changing. Then we let it go to hell.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at September 18, 2012 08:21 PM (r4wIV)

274
That it turned out not enough Afghans chose to avail themselves of that opportunity is not the fault of America or the brave men and women of the US military who sacrificed so much in that God forsaken place.

Amen.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at September 19, 2012 12:18 AM (WLuv5)

275 Sadly, we will eventually be going back there because the place will serve as an incubator for America hating jihadis who will eventually attack us again.

The only way to reduce the likelyhood of that happening is to change the country into something unrecognizable. The way you do that is to change conditions so that somebody who is ruthless enough can make a lot of money there. The opium drug lords are making big money by keeping the place the same.

The missed opportunity was to build a railroad to the Chinese border, through Kabul to the Iranian border. For good measure, rail lines could be connected to the Khyber Pass and north to the various stans. If the Chinese could import oil from the Caspian over the railroad and export cheap products made in western China where their workers are still getting pre-prosperity incomes, the Chinese would make sure that the railroads stay open. It would also put Chinese troops on the Iranian border.

Posted by: Obnoxious A Hole at September 19, 2012 12:27 PM (MdXEM)






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