Was the Aurora Shooter Really Wearing Body Armor?

From the first reporting of the incident up through the present, we've heard that the person who attacked the Dark Knight Rises audience in Colorado last week was wearing "body armor". A sampling:

* USA Today: He was dressed head-to-toe in black bullet-proof gear, including helmet, vest, leggings and a groin and throat protector.

* HuffPo: [Aurora Police Chief Dan] Oates confirmed that the suspected shooter was ***, who entered the theater during a screening of "The Dark Knight Rises" dressed in all black and with heavy body armor.

* And this breathless piece in Amateur Webzine Slate: Armored and Dangerous, The scariest innovation in the Aurora mass shooting isn’t guns or ammo. It’s SWAT gear.

But is this true?

Here's a pdf of a receipt for some of the equipment the shooter purchased. One of the items is called the "Blackhawk Urban Assault Vest". Here's what it looks like:

That's not a bulletproof vest. A clue can be found in the big green open spot in the middle of it. Some would call that "center mass".

Now it's possible the shooter wore that vest over a bulletproof vest, but following the trail of the reporting, it seems like there's also a decent probability that an initial erroneous report from the scene that either repeated eyewitness accounts of body armor or mistook the vest above to be bulletproof morphed into the account of the fully armored killing machine that the press is running with now. After all, they do have a history of being not even wrong where gun-related reporting is concerned. It will be interesting to see if the "facts" as we now know them change as more details are released.

Why is this important?

Back to Slate:

He was so well equipped that if anyone in that theater had tried what the National Rifle Association recommends—drawing a firearm to stop the carnage—that person would have been dead meat. Holmes didn’t just kill a dozen people. He killed the NRA’s answer to gun violence.

Ahh, so concealed carry is now inoperative because this guy upped the ante with body armor? Ummm ... no ... and there are several reasons why.

First, it's not like body armor is a new invention. As a matter of fact, its use played a significant part in one of the most infamous crimes in recent history, the "North Hollywood Shootout" in 1997. This incident didn't herald a wave of body-armored criminals roaming the streets, and there's no reason to think Aurora will either.

And the idea that the theatergoers were better off unarmed with a shooter who doesn't have body armor (the writer's default position) is just silly. It's undermined by the facts in front of us, where a dozen unarmed people were killed and scores more were wounded. The fact that they were unarmed rendered whatever body armor the shooter may have been wearing irrelevant.

But in the case where the assailant was indeed wearing body armor, the armed citizen still would have played an important role. Anyone with a CCW permit should expect that he will become the primary target in the unlikely and unfortunate instance that he ever has to draw his weapon. The idea that the assailant is going to just stand there and ignore incoming rounds bouncing off his body armor while he goes about his business like that scene in The Terminator where Arnie stalks Connor and Reese through the police station is just that ... pure Hollywood.

What's more likely (read damned near guaranteed) to happen is that the assailant will be forced to focus his attention on the "victim" that's unexpectedly shooting back at him and away from other potential targets. By choosing to voluntarily place himself at heightened risk, the armed citizen buys time for the unarmed to flee to safety.

And, finally, there's the head shot. If there's any lesson to take from this incident in regards to concealed carry, it's that a CCW holder can't spend too much time at the range.

Anti-gunners hate that their predictions of blood in the streets!!11! were belied as concealed carry became much more common in the last few decades while the rate of gun-related crimes steadily dropped. Why, it's almost like there's a relationship between the two or something.

They're now shamelessly using the shootings in Aurora to try to convince you that concealed carry is a bad thing. Don't believe them.

In the interest of full disclosure, I have been an NRA Member for decades. The NRA has chronicled instances of law-abiding citizens' use of firearms for self defense in a column in its publications titled The Armed Citizen for as long as I can remember.

Posted by: Andy at 12:34 PM



Comments

1 did you see his bad acting job in the court room yesterday?

Posted by: george lucas's neck-pouch at July 24, 2012 12:37 PM (G3cj8)

2 He was so well equipped that if anyone in that theater had tried...

At some point, you've got enough pockets. Let's ban the rest.

Posted by: t-bird at July 24, 2012 12:37 PM (FcR7P)

3 Great post.

Too many people assuming the first reports are accurate enough to draw conclusions.

Looking at you Greg Howard.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 24, 2012 12:39 PM (mIoJ0)

4 And, of course, your average thug breaking into the house probably hasn't planned ahead far enough to buy body armor and wouldn't know where to get it even if he had.

Posted by: joncelli, heartless Con and all around unpleasant guy at July 24, 2012 12:40 PM (RD7QR)

5 I was wondering...how easy is it to buy a bullet-proof vest, and why wouldn't gangs start wearing them?

Posted by: nickless at July 24, 2012 12:40 PM (MMC8r)

6 I'm fairly certain an Armed Citizen would have altered the equation---for the better.

Posted by: USS Diversity at July 24, 2012 12:40 PM (2d71t)

7 Let's not jump to conclusions. Just because it was reported by the MBM doesn't necessarily mean it's not true.

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 24, 2012 12:40 PM (Hx5uv)

8 There's also the fact that getting shot in the body armor doesn't feel good, and can still leave someone incapacitated.

Posted by: shillelagh at July 24, 2012 12:40 PM (hRzu2)

9 Please keep all the victims and their families of this massacre in your prayers

Posted by: phoenixgirl, team dagny at July 24, 2012 12:40 PM (iDLGO)

10 Maybe the Aurora PD or DA will release a list of the equipment that Sideshow Bob was wearing when arrested which should answer the question of whether he was wearing body armor.

Posted by: Penfold at July 24, 2012 12:40 PM (1PeEC)

11 And it's not like body armor makes you frickin' Superman. You still feel it, and often you go down.

Posted by: nickless at July 24, 2012 12:41 PM (MMC8r)

12 Andy: the "Blackhawk Urban Assault Vest" is a "Scary Black Vest" ... therefore ... "you do the math" (channeling Jon Stewart).

... and yes, anyone who shot back would likely have caused this wimp to drop weapon and "internal load", and run screaming.

We need more old guys with a .380 automatic and the personal determination to "bust a cap in someone's ass".

Posted by: Arbalest at July 24, 2012 12:41 PM (HjpzK)

13 Andy,
that is definitely not body armor - it's a shooting vest with places to store magazines and other stuff.

You can buy body armor, but getting shot even while you wear body armor HURTS. Even police-level body armor will result in heavy bruising and potentially broken ribs. A 9mm hits with about 250-300 ft/lbs of force at that range. A .40 hits with more, while a .357 or .44 hits with FAR more punch.

I guarantee you if you hit that asshole with the type of body that is easily available to civilians he isn't going to ignore it, and it might be enough to take him out of the fight completely. Lots of videos on the web of people being shot while wearing body armor.

And yes, a head shot - should you be lucky enough or skillful enough to take it, likely would have ended the fight as well. If he was wearing a helmet, I'll bet it wasn't a SWAT-level helmet.

I don't know where these lefties come up with the argument that being unarmed and armed would have been the same in this case...there is no way you can state that definitively, and I can tell you I'd rather die shooting back than laying on the floor hoping the bullet isn't fatal.

F that noise.

Posted by: Blindside at July 24, 2012 12:41 PM (x7g7t)

14 I have the exact opposite opinion of Slate. Since there was not one shot fired at him, the body armor, if any, was totally irrelevant and did not contribute in any way to the harming of any person.

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 24, 2012 12:41 PM (Hx5uv)

15 Looks like the 48-Hour Rule needs to be expanded just a wee little bit.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 24, 2012 12:42 PM (d0Tfm)

16 Beanbags. We need to arm everyone with beanbags.

Posted by: nickless at July 24, 2012 12:42 PM (MMC8r)

17 MBM not getting basic facts right, not surprising at all.

Posted by: Penfold at July 24, 2012 12:42 PM (1PeEC)

18 If we were all unarmored and unarmed, then we would be safe.

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 24, 2012 12:42 PM (Hx5uv)

19 When do we start hearing demands in the media to ban the sale of body armor, tactical vests, etc. to the general public?

You peons need to know your place.

Posted by: gebrauchshund at July 24, 2012 12:42 PM (iYwUw)

20 In the North Hollywood shootout, the only option the cops had was to get someone down to the sporting gun store, Martin B Retting, and get some real guns to take on those two.

If it hadn't been for the sport shooting business, I guess the only other option, short of calling the Army, would have been to call on the local gangsters for help. But I'll bet even the gansters weren't as well equipped as our local elephant hunters might have been.

Posted by: Jay Bee at July 24, 2012 12:43 PM (Xwgt3)

21 There is no such thing as a "bulletproof vest" anyway. Normal body armor will not stop anything much more powerful than a .357 and that will still put you on your ass. It will not stop a rifle slug.


Posted by: Vic at July 24, 2012 12:43 PM (YdQQY)

22 I always practice head shots, and its not because I think I'm going to need to shoot a zombie.


Posted by: Looking closely at July 24, 2012 12:43 PM (6Q9g2)

23 For what it is worth - at the price paid that so called body armor would not stop a spitball. Body armor is not cheap, particularly body armor that actually will stop a bullet.

Posted by: John at July 24, 2012 12:44 PM (rHaMl)

24 What I never hear mentioned during gun control arguments is the fact that firearms have been dispersed among the population for about 200 years now. I personally have several guns which are closing in on 100 years old that are in perfect operating condition and for which ammunition is available within a mile of my home. I didn't buy any of these guns. I inherited them. There are probably millions of similarly untraceable weapons. When the idea of gun registration first appeared on my personal horizon I was just a kid, listening to my dad. My dad, a very rational man, said that he had no objections to gun registration; "I'd register some of them" was his position.

My point, I guess, is that gun control is a chimera - it wouldn't work as well as prohibition did, and prohibition didn't work well at all.

In any case, if there weren't enough private gun runners to provide illegal weapons, the government would step in to make sure there were.... they have before.

Posted by: Lokki at July 24, 2012 12:44 PM (a5F9g)

25 OMG! I just heard that Batman was shot by a ginger in Aurora!

Posted by: Joe Biden at July 24, 2012 12:44 PM (Hx5uv)

26 5 I was wondering...how easy is it to buy a bullet-proof vest, and why wouldn't gangs start wearing them?
Posted by: nickless at July 24, 2012 12:40 PM (MMC8r)

You can buy armored vests at gun shows, but this is not the stuff our military or police wear. That is more difficult, and much more expensive, to get hold of.

It will stop handgun rounds - probably up to 9mm. My guess is a .45 , 10mm or .357 magnum would punch through it. An Ak-47 round (7.62x39) or AR-15 round (5.56) will definitely penetrate it.

Posted by: Blindside at July 24, 2012 12:44 PM (x7g7t)

27
Arlene Holmes, the mother of Colorado theater shooting suspect James Holmes, has suggested that ABC News mischaracterized her when it reported that her initial statement to the reporter, "you have the right person," was a reference to her son.

"This statement is to clarify a statement made by ABC media. I was
awakened by a call from a reporter by ABC on July 20 about 5:45 in the
morning. I did not know anything about a shooting in Aurora at that
time," Holmes said in a statement this afternoon, read to the national
press by attorney Lisa Damiani. "He asked if I was Arlene Holmes and if
my son was James Holmes who lives in Aurora, Colorado. I answered yes,
you have the right person. I was referring to myself."







I'm surprised that ABC didn't say that his mother is a member of the Tea Party and trained him to be a killer

Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 24, 2012 12:44 PM (1Jaio)

28 There's only one solution: total, mandatory nudity at all times.

Posted by: nickless at July 24, 2012 12:45 PM (MMC8r)

29 Here's a question that forget in their hystrionics about guns: Where didHolmes get tear gas?

Posted by: Wendy at July 24, 2012 12:45 PM (KydDZ)

30 Can the media get ANYTHING right on this? Silly question, I know.

By the way, how do the four men killed protecting women fit in with the whining womyn earlier this year of "we just can't easily have it all like the ads say we can!" fame?

Posted by: keninnorcal at July 24, 2012 12:45 PM (MZxBc)

31 If I am not mistaken, the police repeatedly referred to it as a tactical ballistic vest which would be body armor. The pictured item is a tactical vest, but is clearly not ballistic in that sense. They also referred to ballistic leggings, groin and throat protectors and a ballistic helmet as well as the gas mask. The press can be excused for thinking he was armored up.

Posted by: Formerly known as Skeptic at July 24, 2012 12:45 PM (91XRk)

32 25
OMG! I just heard that Batman was shot by a ginger in Aurora!


Posted by: Joe Biden at July 24, 2012 12:44 PM (Hx5uv



lol

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 24, 2012 12:45 PM (UOM48)

33 #21

Most CCW holders aren't carrying anything more powerful than a .357, and in fact most aren't even carrying anything that powerful.

Body armor doesn't help if you shoot someone in their knee, head, or arm.

Posted by: Looking closely at July 24, 2012 12:46 PM (6Q9g2)

34 Posted by: nickless at July 24, 2012 12:40 PM (MMC8r)

Because it's heavy, bulky, hot, expensive, and needs to be replaced often; not to mention that it is pretty obvious -- it really can't be hidden.



Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 24, 2012 12:46 PM (nEUpB)

35 not as serious but this reminds me of the asinine arguments that pro hockey players would be better served by going helmetless

teeth = lives in this instance

also - Sideshow Bob - wow, I hadn't thought of it but PERFECT name for this tool

and I don't care what he's wearing, I would have knocked him back if I missed but hit his "armor" - anything to distract and mess up this mook

btw interesting events in my old home of Upper Roxy - maybe Wyatt Earp saw this - off duty policement "handled" violent home invaders pretty well, saving the city some money on the one guy:


http://tinyurl.com/bwotvv3

Posted by: BlackOrchidPinesForDagny at July 24, 2012 12:47 PM (J6kXj)

36 I saw a video recently of two thugs trying to hold up a restaurant. It was hilarious. An old man with a CCW and not as well-armed as they were warned them and then shot them as they ran over each other fleeing out the door.

The point is, that the shooter expects certain things to happen. Being attacked is not one of them. If someone had shot at him, body armor or no, it could have so surprised him, that he could have been unnerved and fled.

For that matter, merely attacking him with a bowl of popcorn or a cup of coke might have had a similar affect, especially, if the 'victim' followed them in with a charge.

Shooters expecting sheep are discombobulated when confronted with lions.

Posted by: Frumious Bandersnatch at July 24, 2012 12:47 PM (YiS6j)

37 That dick head Alan Colmes is defending Brian Ross on Fox.

It must be painful walking around with your head up your ass.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 24, 2012 12:47 PM (UOM48)

38 Posted by: Lokki at July 24, 2012 12:44 PM (a5F9g)

What you also don't hear is that mass shootings are not new, and have occurred for more than 100 years.

Mass-shootings weren't discovered after autoloaders were invented. And mass murder far predates the gun.

Posted by: Blindside at July 24, 2012 12:47 PM (x7g7t)

39 Yes, being unarmed worked out so well for the people in that theater. What a fucking idiot.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 24, 2012 12:47 PM (EQpRL)

40 True body armor is expensive, heavy, and uncomfortable to wear.


Posted by: Looking closely at July 24, 2012 12:47 PM (6Q9g2)

41 I wonder if that six year old girl would have been killed if Captain Kookoo had been taking fire from two or three CCW permit holders.

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 24, 2012 12:47 PM (Hx5uv)

42

Holmes was reportedly wearing a "Tactical Helmet".
Are those bullet-proof?

Posted by: wheatie at July 24, 2012 12:48 PM (MbB0O)

43 Sensational! Brain Ross has also suggested that his hair stylings were imbued with red kryptonite and smelled of tea leaves.

Posted by: Fritz at July 24, 2012 12:48 PM (/ZZCn)

44 >>>>>First, it's not like body armor is a new invention. <<<<<<<

That's exactly right Sir Andy.

Nee!

Posted by: The Knights who say Nee! at July 24, 2012 12:48 PM (/inUg)

45 I remember when "bullet proof vests" became common police gear. A local TV reporter decided to try it out, so he got shot with a .22 while wearing. A .22 mind you. He fell on his ass and wailed. All that energy still gets absorbed by the body, it's just spread over a wider area. An armed citizen with a little 9mm woulda dropped Holmes on his ass with a couple of broken ribs.

Then you shoot him in the temple from 2 feet away.

You know, to send the message.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2012 12:48 PM (zlvkY)

46 28 There's only one solution: total, mandatory nudity at all times.
Posted by: nickless at July 24, 2012 12:45 PM (MMC8r)

Have you seen how small derringers and some revolvers and the newer semi-autos are. If you are a woman, you have...options to fit such a gun.

Even some men...

Posted by: Blindside at July 24, 2012 12:49 PM (x7g7t)

47 As Rush pointed out yesterday -

1. 2nd Amendment's been around over 200 years
2. Pistols over 150 years

Why weren't there mass shootings in the past?

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at July 24, 2012 12:49 PM (136wp)

48 Would he have even picked a theater if it weren't a no-carry zone?

Posted by: nickless at July 24, 2012 12:49 PM (MMC8r)

49 I don't think that receipt covers all his gear. When you look at the outdoor crime scene photos, you can clearly see a ballistic helmet and what appears to be a simple ballistic vest and "chaps."

Regardless of whether you're wearing a vest or not - shoot someone center of mass with a decent caliber and they're going down to varying degrees.

Posted by: VT_02 at July 24, 2012 12:49 PM (Ll70k)

50 that's a Fully Automatic Assault Vest™

/Brian Ross's Google History

Posted by: Frank G at July 24, 2012 12:49 PM (5HSFu)

51 I think that receipt could be exhibit A in any insanity plea. Those prices are WAY too high-

Posted by: lil miss DAve at July 24, 2012 12:49 PM (w5aay)

52 It's been pointed out that the doors to the theater had "No Weapons Allowed" signs.

How helpful for a serial killer.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 24, 2012 12:49 PM (UOM48)

53 "Two in the head so you know he's dead."

Posted by: SurferDoc at July 24, 2012 12:49 PM (6H6FZ)

54 There's also the fact that getting shot in the body armor doesn't feel good, and can still leave someone incapacitated.


Posted by: shillelagh at July 24, 2012 12:40 PM (hRzu2)

This.And the point could also be made that because, if an armed citizen uses a round such as the .45 ACP (as G*d and John Moses Browning intended), the assailant would not be killed but simply knocked down and incapacitated fewer Good Samaritans would be put in the position George Zimmerman finds himself in today.

Posted by: Nighthawk at July 24, 2012 12:50 PM (RSqz2)

55 I wonder if that six year old girl would have been killed if Captain
Kookoo had been taking fire from two or three CCW permit holders.

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 24, 2012 12:47 PM (Hx5uv)

-----------------
And what are the chances that, in a place like Colorado, the CCW holders would outnumber the shooter? Especially at midnight?

Posted by: Jay Bee at July 24, 2012 12:50 PM (Xwgt3)

56 That tac vest is currently $85 at Amazon. No wonder he was so angry-

Posted by: lil miss DAve at July 24, 2012 12:51 PM (w5aay)

57
From the looks of him he was probably wearing Bat-Man Underoos as well.

BTW - Anyone else catch Diane Feinstein claiming that the shooter's Assault Weapon had a 'Hellfire Switch'? Oh, yeah. He had missile technology, too!

Posted by: garrett at July 24, 2012 12:51 PM (SK1c2)

58 53 "Two in the head so you know he's dead."
Posted by: SurferDoc at July 24, 2012 12:49 PM (6H6FZ)

"Tap it twice, it's the only way to get it right"

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at July 24, 2012 12:51 PM (136wp)

59 An armed citizen with a little 9mm woulda dropped Holmes on his ass with a couple of broken ribs.Then you shoot him in the temple from 2 feet away.You know, to send the message.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2012 12:48 PM (zlvkY



Do you, perchance, have a newsletter one could subscribe to?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 24, 2012 12:51 PM (UOM48)

60 The problem in this particular case wasn't the body armor (or lack thereof) its that the theater was dark, filled with tear gas, and hysterical fleeing people.

Getting a clear shot (let alone connecting with a head shot) would probably have been pretty difficult here.




Posted by: Looking closely at July 24, 2012 12:51 PM (6Q9g2)

61 >>>if an armed citizen uses a round such as the .45 ACP

God, I love that round. It was issued in WW1 because of its ability to blow a charging enemy soldier UP AND OUT of the trench.

Fuck you, Harry Callahan.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2012 12:52 PM (zlvkY)

62 One armed citizen in the theater increases the chances of stopping the killer from 0% to 100%.

I suppose if any of these political grandstanders just happened to have had a gun in the theater, they would have kept it holstered out of principle.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at July 24, 2012 12:52 PM (rX1N2)

63 Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2012 12:48 PM (zlvkY)

A .22.

Imagine a hot .40 SW or a hot .45 ACP round.

And then three more right after the first.

And then one or two bouncing of your helmet (or penetrating and ending it).


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 24, 2012 12:53 PM (nEUpB)

64 Only slightly O/T, but I've read a couple of stats that said most deaths due to gushots are .22 caliber because they tend to be so small, they bounce around inside the body instead of making a clean entry and exit wound.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 24, 2012 12:53 PM (d0Tfm)

65 The media are so busy being in the tank for the democrat party, they can't get anything right.

Posted by: Fresh at July 24, 2012 12:54 PM (O7ksG)

66 ...Getting a clear shot (let alone connecting with a head shot) would probably have been pretty difficult here.

Posted by: Looking closely at July 24, 2012 12:51 PM (6Q9g2)

I know of at least 12 families that wished someone had the chance to try it...

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at July 24, 2012 12:54 PM (136wp)

67 "Getting a clear shot (let alone connecting with a head shot) would probably have been pretty difficult here.

Posted by: Looking closely at July 24, 2012 12:51 PM (6Q9g2)"


You know what's even harder than that? Getting a clear headshot in without the aid of a gun.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at July 24, 2012 12:54 PM (rX1N2)

68 I'd feel much safer if there was a 300 pound TSA agent wedged into some 36" Kahkis standing at the entrance feeling up the moviegoers.

Posted by: Hal Burton at July 24, 2012 12:54 PM (iYvMQ)

69 According to witnesses, the killer fired his first round into the ceiling to get the victims' attention and cause mayhem.

Too bad none of the military in the theater were armed. Now three of them are dead.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 24, 2012 12:54 PM (UOM48)

70 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable tyrant.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 24, 2012 12:54 PM (8y9MW)

71 "Tap it twice, it's the only way to get it right"

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at July 24, 2012 12:51 PM (136wp)

That goes for Kate Upton as well.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 24, 2012 12:55 PM (nEUpB)

72 >>One armed citizen in the theater increases the chances of stopping the killer from 0% to 100%.


Provided it he (or she) pulls it and starts slinging rounds. "When there's lead in the air, there's hope", my Papa used to say. Just by engaging the nutjob, even if you die, you reduce the body count. Fucking Feinstein said on the boob tube that more people would've died in a "firefight". Fucking ignorant scrunt.

And there are no shortage of "heroes" that would do such a thing. One man who died in this thing was from around my area in Ohio. He died with his body wrapped around his girlfriend, shielding her. THAT'S a fucking man, right there.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2012 12:56 PM (zlvkY)

73 It's been pointed out that the doors to the theater had "No Weapons Allowed" signs.

How helpful for a serial killer.

----

Much more subtle than "Target Rich Environment."

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 24, 2012 12:56 PM (Hx5uv)

74
The theater was a "Gun-Free Zone".
In other words.....like Shooting Fish In A Barrel.

Several victims and theater-goers have mentioned, that the Shooter stopped shooting....and they thought it was over....but then he started shooting again.
So there wouldn't been an opportunity to get off a few rounds at him...
...if someone had had a firearm to do it with.

Posted by: wheatie at July 24, 2012 12:57 PM (MbB0O)

75 PEOPLE !!11!ty!!

The word "tactical", when spoken by a journalist or reporter, means "made of some scary black or camomaterial".

"Ballistic nylon", when spoken by the same fools, means "made of some grade of nylon"

This could be from a Class III vest (which will stop .357, but the wearer will hurt) ora backpacking tent, butthe journalist don't know.

Posted by: Arbalest at July 24, 2012 12:57 PM (HjpzK)

76 wearing body armor? so what.
Head shot. Leg shot. Tougher, but DOABLE. very doable.

Posted by: john b at July 24, 2012 12:57 PM (4BJga)

77 Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 24, 2012 12:54 PM (UOM4

If he had done this in Israel he would have caught about 10 rounds of .223 in the chest before he got the second shot off.

And then the three hot chicks who dropped him would go back to their day jobs as models.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 24, 2012 12:57 PM (nEUpB)

78
The vest shown above actually is a bulletproof vest if you stuff the pockets with "sentimental things that have actually stopped bullets or else somebody'd be dead."

You know, things like lockets from your honey, a cigarette case you found in Skokie one night, a photograph of your mother. The Bible. Load up those pockets with this shit and, voila, bulletproof.

You're welcome.

Posted by: spongeworthy at July 24, 2012 12:57 PM (r5w1L)

79 He killed the NRA’s answer to gun violence.


The NRA's solution to gun violence is gun control

Gun control is being able to hit your target.

In the case of body armor, the target is the head.

Liberals, getting it wrong since 1789!


Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 24, 2012 12:57 PM (sbV1u)

80
God, I love that round. It was issued in WW1 because of its ability to blow a charging enemy soldier UP AND OUT of the trench.

Fuck you, Harry Callahan.


Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2012 12:52 PM (zlvkY)
Which is the whole point. I think these journalist types don't understand that body armor is not "bullet proof" in the way that the movies portray it. The armor will keep you from getting killed, but you'll still look, feel, and react like you were hit in the chest with a sledge hammer.Which will probably discourage the average lunatic from wanting to play "shoot up the movie theater" any more.

Posted by: Nighthawk at July 24, 2012 12:57 PM (RSqz2)

81 "Getting a clear shot (let alone connecting with a head shot) would probably have been pretty difficult here."

Agreed. However, difficult is not the same as impossible.

Posted by: gebrauchshund at July 24, 2012 12:58 PM (iYwUw)

82 The Fox talking head said he was firing "automatic weapons" into the crowd.

Posted by: Vic at July 24, 2012 12:58 PM (YdQQY)

83
74...correction....*would've been an opportunity
eesh

Posted by: wheatie at July 24, 2012 12:58 PM (MbB0O)

84 If he had done this in Israel he would have caught about 10 rounds of .223 7.62 in the chest before he got the second shot off.

FIFY

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 24, 2012 12:58 PM (sbV1u)

85 >>>"Ballistic nylon", when spoken by the same fools

Nylon sounds like a really shitty projectile material. Lead is cheap. DU is better. But pantyhose? Really?

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2012 12:59 PM (zlvkY)

86 Also of note, those liberals and anti-gun zealots are attacking NRA and gun lovers over the fact that Holmes had a 100-round magazine with his AR-15.

Nevermind the fact that his gun had jammed, probably because of the 100-round magazine, and thus he was not able to utilize that weapon as he desired.

I'd also like to know what the media meant by a throat and groin protector as well as a combat helmet.

Posted by: slight_wisp at July 24, 2012 12:59 PM (HgkYj)

87
And then the three hot chicks who dropped him would go back to their day jobs as models.

Team Assault-Bikini - Fuck Yeah!

Posted by: garrett at July 24, 2012 12:59 PM (SK1c2)

88 Posted by: Vic at July 24, 2012 12:58 PM (YdQQY)

Probably nuclear tipped rounds too.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 24, 2012 12:59 PM (nEUpB)

89 Any kind of shot in the dark filled with smoke and tear gas would have been difficult, but not impossible. Keep in mind we're dealing with room distances here, not across several hundred yards of field.

Posted by: Vic at July 24, 2012 01:00 PM (YdQQY)

90 40 True body armor is expensive, heavy, and uncomfortable to wear.


Posted by: Looking closely at July 24, 2012 12:47 PM (6Q9g2)
------------------------

That's where Uncle Sugar comes in with the NIH grant.

Posted by: RWC at July 24, 2012 01:00 PM (fWAjv)

91 "Load up those pockets with this shit and, voila, bulletproof.

Posted by: spongeworthy at July 24, 2012 12:57 PM (r5w1L)"


Don't forget the small silver tray on the mantle.

Posted by: Bruce Wayne, c.1989 at July 24, 2012 01:00 PM (rX1N2)

92 >>You know, things like lockets from your honey, a cigarette case you
found in Skokie one night, a photograph of your mother. The Bible. Load
up those pockets with this shit and, voila, bulletproof.

Copies of your speech are only marginal. Just sayin.....

Posted by: Teddy Motherfucking Roosevelt at July 24, 2012 01:00 PM (zlvkY)

93
William Saletan is a ball-less pussy who sees himself as a victim and is enraged at the thought that there are real men (and women) out there who are not willing to lay down and accept their fates.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 24, 2012 01:01 PM (EQpRL)

94
Look, Biff, the dork's wearing a life preserver. Maybe he thinks he's gonna drown!

Posted by: Krebs v Carnot: Epic Battle of the Cycling Stars at July 24, 2012 01:01 PM (FcKXR)

95 Megyn Kelly on Fox reporting the killer "slept like a baby" his first night in jail.

What he needs is Big Bubba sharing a cell with him.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 24, 2012 01:01 PM (UOM48)

96 Only slightly O/T, but I've read a couple of stats that said most deaths
due to gushots are .22 caliber because they tend to be so small, they
bounce around inside the body instead of making a clean entry and exit
wound.

I've heard that the .22 is what pro assassins use. If you put one thru the ear it rattles around the brain making your brain matter swiss cheese. Its what I've heard before and I have absolutely no "facts" to back it up other than it sounds cool and what a dope assassin would do.

Posted by: Shtetl G at July 24, 2012 01:01 PM (thj04)

97 Team Assault-Bikini - Fuck Yeah! Posted by: garrett at July 24, 2012 12:59 PM (SK1c2)


BRB. I'll be in my bunk.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 24, 2012 01:01 PM (sbV1u)

98
how is it that we have a receipt for Holmes' purchases yet we supposedly know absolutely nothing of his motives?

Posted by: Soothsayer at July 24, 2012 01:01 PM (9Q7Nu)

99 Posted by: garrett at July 24, 2012 12:59 PM (SK1c2)

Don't believe me? Go to Israel!

It's amazing how badly baggy, ugly military uniforms will hide smokin' hot bodies.

And lots of people carry.

Hell, my 85-year-old family friend carries a full-size 9mm.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 24, 2012 01:02 PM (nEUpB)

100 Getting shot with a 9mm while wearing body armor is like getting hit in the chest with a medium sized ball peen hammer.

Posted by: Ozzie at July 24, 2012 01:02 PM (fvAxG)

101 Team Assault-Bikini - Fuck Yeah!
Posted by: garrett at July 24, 2012 12:59 PM (SK1c2)

Leaked by Joe Biden, pictures of one member of the team. SFW. [PIC]

http://tinyurl.com/82r9ofl

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at July 24, 2012 01:02 PM (136wp)

102 What I think is the following: Just ONE concealed carrying person who could actually hit what he is aiming at under stress could have stopped this clown in his tracks. Thats what I think. And even one who couldn't shoot for shit might have stopped him by raising the heat to an intolerable level. He wasn't interested in getting killed, that much seems obvious.

Posted by: maddogg at July 24, 2012 01:02 PM (OlN4e)

103
Something stinks here.

Is Skunk Napolitano meddling in this investigation?

Posted by: Soothsayer at July 24, 2012 01:02 PM (9Q7Nu)

104 >>>drawing a firearm to stop the carnage—that person would have been dead meat.

Really? Can you verify that. Even grade IIIA body armor cannot stand up to a 180gr 44mag moving at 1600 fps.Or at least it's not rated to.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 24, 2012 01:02 PM (0q2P7)

105 he slept like a baby b/c he's totally drugged up with pharmaceuticals

moreso than he normally is, even.

Posted by: BlackOrchidPinesForDagny at July 24, 2012 01:02 PM (J6kXj)

106 >> God, I love that round. It was issued in WW1 because of its ability to blow a charging enemy soldier UP AND OUT of the trench.

Sir Issac Newton would say that's a bit of an exaggeration, but it's a fine round.

Posted by: Andy at July 24, 2012 01:03 PM (5Rurq)

107 "I'd also like to know what the media meant by a throat and groin protector..."

An ascot and a jock strap.

Posted by: gebrauchshund at July 24, 2012 01:03 PM (iYwUw)

108 and I have absolutely no "facts" to back it up other than it sounds cool and what a dope assassin would do.

...we can't run this. Too well-sourced.

Posted by: Brian Ross, ABC News at July 24, 2012 01:03 PM (ZKzrr)

109 So Andy, let me get this straight: you don't know if the shooter was wearing body armor or not? Isn't this a little hypocritical? Why not wait till the facts are in?

But by all means, go ahead and slam Slate--they richly deserve it.

Posted by: Arms Merchant at July 24, 2012 01:03 PM (+XVQe)

110 Posted by: Vic at July 24, 2012 01:00 PM (YdQQY)

And the important thing is that the choice was taken away by government.



Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 24, 2012 01:03 PM (nEUpB)

111 >>>Any kind of shot in the dark filled with smoke and tear gas would have been difficult, but not impossible.

And this is why the former ban on high capacity mags was truly stupid. In a situation like this, any one of us, (and obviously many of us are trained and enthusiastic shooters), would still have the issue of the giant load in our knickers. There's no getting away from that. But with enough rounds I can kill fucking anything.

Except bluebills coming downwind. Those fuckers give me fits.

Posted by: Teddy Motherfucking Roosevelt at July 24, 2012 01:03 PM (zlvkY)

112 The fact that he was using one of those shitty 100 round drum magazines and it jammed tells me two things:


1) He had not practice fired the damn thing

2) He doesn't know a damn thing about guns.

Posted by: Vic at July 24, 2012 01:03 PM (YdQQY)

113

In Colorado Springs....a shooter burst into a church and started shooting.
This was a few years back,in 2007.
That shooter was armed with an assault rifle and a couple of hand guns.

But a lady in the congregation, was armed andtook him down.
Body count.....2 dead, 2 wounded.

The media doesn't want to talk about incidents like this one.

Linky in my sig...to an article about this, over at Moonbattery.

Posted by: wheatie at July 24, 2012 01:03 PM (MbB0O)

114 But.... he LOOKED Scary... kinda like Assault Weapons!

Posted by: Media at July 24, 2012 01:03 PM (lZBBB)

115 Socked myself.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2012 01:04 PM (zlvkY)

116
brb, goin fishin with some ballistic nylon string

Posted by: Soothsayer at July 24, 2012 01:04 PM (9Q7Nu)

117 It's been pointed out that the doors to the theater had "No Weapons Allowed" signs.

Putting this on the theater company bugs the shit out of me. You don't have to comply. The usher is not going to frisk and arrest you for carrying a concealed weapon. If you're going to carry, carry.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at July 24, 2012 01:04 PM (+lsX1)

118 As Gordon Liddy once said: Don't attempt the head shot, shoot them in the groin.

Posted by: Gordon undead Ramsay at July 24, 2012 01:04 PM (9HhTH)

119 how is it that we have a receipt for Holmes' purchases yet we supposedly know absolutely nothing of his motives?





Posted by: Soothsayer at July 24, 2012 01:01 PM


You can read receipts. Reading someone's mind is harder, doubly so after he has been Mirandized and decked out in full bulletproof attorney-armor.

Frankly, who gives a shit about "motive," anyway? I'm still wishing there had been at least one person in the theater packing heat.

Posted by: MrScribbler at July 24, 2012 01:05 PM (wZI4b)

120 According to witnesses, the killer fired his first round into the ceiling to get the victims' attention and cause mayhem.

Too bad none of the military in the theater were armed. Now three of them are dead.


Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 24, 2012 12:54 PM (UOM4


It was a gun-free zone. They can bury their moral superiority right along with the victims.

Posted by: Oldcat at July 24, 2012 01:05 PM (z1N6a)

121 Haven't gotten to read the comments yet, but I recall reading a report that dyed-hair-lunatic was trying to blend in as a member of the SWAT crew in order to slip away, but the actual SWAT guys noticed something off about his gear. From KUTV.com:


Police say that amid the chaos in moments following the shooting, 24-year-old James Eagan Holmes almost (got) away. Wearing tactical gear, Holmes slipped out of the theater and looked like any other member of the S.W.A.T team on the scene – except for one mistake.

"There was one particular piece of equipment that he had on him that was out of place and I am so proud of my officers that they spotted that right away and challenged him,” said Aurora, Colorado Police Department Chief Dan Oates.



I wonder if that piece of equipment that was "out of place" had anything to do with the tactical vest but no bullet proof vest beneath it?

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter at July 24, 2012 01:05 PM (4df7R)

122 Any kind of shot in the dark filled with smoke and tear gas would have
been difficult, but not impossible. Keep in mind we're dealing with room
distances here, not across several hundred yards of field.

---

And he wouldn't have had to have been killed or wounded (although if I get my choice, I'm going with dead). Merely scaring or distracting him would have saved lives.

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 24, 2012 01:05 PM (Hx5uv)

123 Any kind of shot in the dark filled with smoke and
tear gas would have been difficult, but not impossible. Keep in mind
we're dealing with room distances here, not across several hundred yards
of field. Posted by: Vic at July 24, 2012 01:00 PM (YdQQY)



True.

As Uncle Sugar once taught me, you assault into an ambush. Because if you do nothing you're dead. If you assault, you might live. Either way, your action would buy time for others.

In this case speed kills - if someone had started throwing lead back at him quickly, he would have flinched - it's just human nature - and that right there would have bought still more time.

Seconds count, and you need every one you have.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 24, 2012 01:05 PM (sbV1u)

124

Don't believe me? Go to Israel!

No way. I'd end up married, again.

**If pixxy still had all her bells and whistles, there would have been a link to the pic the Robot Devil posted.

Posted by: garrett at July 24, 2012 01:05 PM (SK1c2)

125
Why not wait till the facts are in?

This is the goddam AoS.

We don't wait for shit.

Posted by: Soothsayer at July 24, 2012 01:05 PM (9Q7Nu)

126 "how is it that we have a receipt for Holmes' purchases yet we supposedly know absolutely nothing of his motives?

Posted by: Soothsayer at July 24, 2012 01:01 PM (9Q7Nu)"


It takes awhile to obtain the manifestos the police found in his apartment, then the editorial department has to take a whack at them for, you know, important content.

These things take awhile you know.

Posted by: Brian Ross, Sooper Slooth at July 24, 2012 01:06 PM (rX1N2)

127 >>>In Colorado Springs....a shooter burst into a church and started shooting.
This was a few years back,in 2007.
That shooter was armed with an assault rifle and a couple of hand guns. But a lady in the congregation, was armed andtook him down.
Body count.....2 dead, 2 wounded.

Remember the Appalachian College massacre? No?

Wonder why....

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2012 01:07 PM (zlvkY)

128 In Colorado Springs....a shooter burst into a church and started shooting.
This was a few years back,in 2007.
That shooter was armed with an assault rifle and a couple of hand guns.

But a lady in the congregation, was armed andtook him down.
Body count.....2 dead, 2 wounded.

The media doesn't want to talk about incidents like this one.

Linky in my sig...to an article about this, over at Moonbattery.

Posted by: wheatie at July 24, 2012 01:03 PM (MbB0O)


Look at how many rounds fired to a kill professional armies get in combat. Return fire of any kind reduces the effectiveness of the other side.

Posted by: Oldcat at July 24, 2012 01:07 PM (z1N6a)

129
1. How did the receipt become available so quickly for public viewing?

2. Of fickin course there's a political motive behind this shooting. They're hiding something.

Posted by: Soothsayer at July 24, 2012 01:07 PM (9Q7Nu)

130 Head shot. Leg shot. Tougher, but DOABLE. very doable.

Leg shots are more doable than head shots, I would think, and can be just as deadly (it's called the femoral artery for a reason).

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 24, 2012 01:08 PM (8y9MW)

131
"I'd also like to know what the media meant by a throat and groin protector..."

A Dental Dam and a Flavored Condom?

Posted by: Sandra Fluke at July 24, 2012 01:08 PM (SK1c2)

132 Even from my RINO perspective, I cant believe the Left is arguing this. How quickly theyve firgotten the Internet Cafe grandpa hero.

Posted by: Y-not on phone at July 24, 2012 01:08 PM (5H6zj)

133 It was a gun-free zone, people. He didn't have any guns, he killed them with his mind, just like in Scanners.

Posted by: Scanners live in vain at July 24, 2012 01:08 PM (NpR/e)

134 >> God, I love that round. It was issued in WW1 because of its
ability to blow a charging enemy soldier UP AND OUT of the trench.>>

And they had it ready to go in WWI because of the Moro Tribesman a 38 wouldn't stop in ~1898.


"At the time US troops were armed with either .30 caliber Krag or
Springfield bolt-action rifles and .38 caliber double-action revolvers.
While the .30 caliber rifles proved effective in stopping the attackers,
the US troop’s handguns demonstrated an unnerving lack of stopping
power, resulting in numerous reports of Moro warriors absorbing multiple
pistol bullets while they continued to hack away at the Americans.
Obviously the US troops’ morale suffered badly in this situation.


The combat pistol situation became so acute that old stocks of Model
1873 Colt revolvers in 45 caliber, many of which dated back to the
Plains Indian Wars were returned to active service, where they quickly
demonstrated a much better track record of stopping an attacker with one
well-placed shot."
http://www.browning.com/library/infonews/detail.asp?ID=301



Posted by: Buzzsaw at July 24, 2012 01:08 PM (tf9Ne)

135 Posted by: wheatie at July 24, 2012 01:03 PM

Our ultra-liberal local TV outlets didn't bother to carry the story of the Gunslingin' Grampa who faced down those two armed hoodie-wearers in FL, either. But they did make a big deal about a sweet li'l granny who threw mangoes at a couple of punk robbers in a mompop grocery store.

Just think: one of the little slimeballs coulda slipped on mango juice and maybe hurt himself....

Posted by: MrScribbler at July 24, 2012 01:09 PM (wZI4b)

136 >>>I wonder if that piece of equipment that was "out of place" had anything
to do with the tactical vest but no bullet proof vest beneath it?

I read somewhere he had the wrong design of gas mask.

As I read it "somewhere", and that place was online, it has to be true.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2012 01:09 PM (zlvkY)

137 Femoral artery hit is fatal every time.Even on tough animals like deer.

Posted by: maddogg at July 24, 2012 01:09 PM (OlN4e)

138 Yes sir, aiming right at the snout of that gas mask would have changed the day. The armed citizen would not necessarily have been at a disadvantage, firing from the cover of the seats without the worry of innocents in the background. Tell me again about how he went out an emergency exit and then came back in without any alarm sounding or anything? Or was it not an emergency exit?

Posted by: and irresolute at July 24, 2012 01:09 PM (Q492A)

139

I just hope this dickhead, Holmes, doesn't get off on an insanity plea.

He should be drug behind a pickup....through cactus....and gravel.
Until there is nothing left of him.

Posted by: wheatie at July 24, 2012 01:09 PM (MbB0O)

140 What I think is the following: Just ONE concealed
carrying person who could actually hit what he is aiming at under stress
could have stopped this clown in his tracks. Thats what I think. And
even one who couldn't shoot for shit might have stopped him by raising
the heat to an intolerable level. He wasn't interested in getting
killed, that much seems obvious.

Posted by: maddogg at July 24, 2012 01:02 PM (OlN4e)


Look at how quickly he surrendered to the police. Dying wasn't part of the plan.

Posted by: Oldcat at July 24, 2012 01:09 PM (z1N6a)

141 "He was so well equipped that if anyone in that theater had tried what
the National Rifle Association recommends—drawing a firearm to stop the
carnage—that person would have been dead meat. Holmes didn’t just kill a
dozen people. He killed the NRA’s answer to gun violence."



So the writer from Slate will volunteer to put on a bullet proof vest and take a few shots from an NRA member? And head, arms and legs fair game? Yeah. I didn't think so.

Posted by: Dang at July 24, 2012 01:10 PM (Ky1+e)

142
The fact that he was using one of those shitty 100 round drum magazines and it jammed tells me two things:
<<<<

Those drum mags are worthless. They're too fucking heavy for the magazine catch, because they exceed the weight it's designed to hold by more than three times. Unless you're firing from a bench, there's a good chance it'll fail to feed.

Also, I love that Saletan added "tactical gloves" to the list of Sooper Scaree equipment that should be banned. I've got a tactical handkerchief in my pocket right now! RUN!

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 24, 2012 01:10 PM (EQpRL)

143 Time to go folks. be back this evening.

Posted by: Vic at July 24, 2012 01:10 PM (YdQQY)

144 >>>Sir Issac Newton would say that's a bit of an exaggeration, but it's a fine round.

Screw him. He used a longbow. What the hell would he know?

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2012 01:10 PM (zlvkY)

145 drawing a firearm to stop the carnage—that person would have been dead meat.

You don't have to ask for a spotlight and music, stand up, flip your coat back, and draw.

Posted by: t-bird at July 24, 2012 01:10 PM (FcR7P)

146
A Hellfire Switch!

Posted by: Diane Feinstein at July 24, 2012 01:11 PM (SK1c2)

147
someone was telling me today that he probably got the idea of tossing the gas whatever-the-fucks from a video game

Posted by: Soothsayer at July 24, 2012 01:11 PM (9Q7Nu)

148 I wonder if that piece of equipment that was "out of place"...


My guess would be that he was missing the 8 inch high gold letters spelling out POLICE on his back.

Posted by: Nighthawk at July 24, 2012 01:11 PM (RSqz2)

149 And, finally, there's the head shot. If there's any lesson to take from
this incident in regards to concealed carry, it's that a CCW holder
can't spend too much time at the range.


Leave us not forget that that the upper legs are large targets. While not as debilitating as the head shot, disabling a leg or two greatly restricts the shooter's ability to move, allowing the others to escape and making the prepetartor an easier target.

Last, someone like this shooter (won't name him) probably has never experienced a target-on-target scenario and wouldn't necessarily know how to react.

Which leads to these questions: When finally confronted by law enforcement, what did the shooter do? Does Slate imagine that the shooter's response would have been any different if the confrontation had been initiated by a CCW-er?

Posted by: John P. Squibob at July 24, 2012 01:11 PM (kqqGm)

150 Femoral artery hit is fatal every time.Even on tough animals like deer.

Posted by: maddogg at July 24, 2012 01:09 PM (OlN4e)


Wasn't there a student at Virginia Tech that was hit in the femoral artery, tied it off with an electric cord.....and lived?

Posted by: Tami at July 24, 2012 01:11 PM (X6akg)

151 I've got a tactical handkerchief in my pocket right now! RUN!Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 24, 2012 01:10 PM (EQpRL)

Damn. All I've got is a tactical wallet and a set of tactical car keys.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 24, 2012 01:12 PM (sbV1u)

152 Bye, Vic.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 24, 2012 01:12 PM (UOM48)

153 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 24, 2012 01:08 PM (8y9MW)

Uhh...from the latin for thigh.


Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 24, 2012 01:12 PM (nEUpB)

154 I use my tactical rubber to intimidate the ladies.......

Posted by: maddogg at July 24, 2012 01:12 PM (OlN4e)

155 He should be drug behind a pickup....through cactus....and gravel.

With occasional dunks in a vat of Bactine.

Posted by: t-bird at July 24, 2012 01:12 PM (FcR7P)

156 "He was so well equipped that if anyone in that theater had tried what

the National Rifle Association recommends—drawing a firearm to stop the

carnage—that person would have been dead meat. Holmes didn’t just kill a

dozen people. He killed the NRA’s answer to gun violence."


So
the writer from Slate will volunteer to put on a bullet proof vest and
take a few shots from an NRA member? And head, arms and legs fair game?
Yeah. I didn't think so.


Posted by: Dang at July 24, 2012 01:10 PM (Ky1+e)


He was too well equipped, so the solution is to disarm the victims even more? This is inane even by liberal standards.

Posted by: Oldcat at July 24, 2012 01:12 PM (z1N6a)

157
There was one particular piece of equipment that he had on him that was out of place and I am so proud of my officers that they spotted that right away and challenged him,” said Aurora, Colorado Police Department Chief Dan Oates<><

He was wearing his tightie-whities on the outside of his tactical pants.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 24, 2012 01:13 PM (EQpRL)

158 144 >>>Sir Issac Newton would say that's a bit of an exaggeration, but it's a fine round.

Screw him. He used a longbow. What the hell would he know?
Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2012 01:10 PM (zlvkY)

Frack, Newton, should have put a crossbow bolt in his lying ass...

Posted by: Gottfried Leibniz at July 24, 2012 01:13 PM (136wp)

159 Scrawl "Filthy Jooo" on his chest and drop him off in Egypt.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 24, 2012 01:13 PM (UOM48)

160 Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2012 01:10 PM (zlvkY)

Come for the smart military blogging; stay for the comedy!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 24, 2012 01:13 PM (nEUpB)

161 Mozambique drill: http://tinyurl.com/bmngypv

Posted by: Scott J at July 24, 2012 01:13 PM (5M+pt)

162 "Holmes didn’t just kill a
dozen people. He killed the NRA’s answer to gun violence."

So is Slate saying they are now for legalizing armor piercing rounds for concealed carry permit holders?

Posted by: Dang at July 24, 2012 01:13 PM (Ky1+e)

163 >> Why not wait till the facts are in?

Read again. I'm pointing out that the facts aren't in. Or at least they might not be. The body armor thing could be 100% correct.

My main criticism of the argument in Slate presumes that he was wearing body armor.

If it turns out he really wasn't wearing body armor at all, that's just icing on the cake.

Posted by: Andy at July 24, 2012 01:14 PM (5Rurq)

164 He was too well equipped, so the solution is to disarm the victims even more? This is inane even by liberal standards. Posted by: Oldcat at July 24, 2012 01:12 PM (z1N6a)

No, that is the QED clincher by liberal standards.

This is why liberalism is a mental illness.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 24, 2012 01:14 PM (sbV1u)

165 There was one particular piece of equipment that he had on him that was out of place and I am so proud of my officers that they spotted that right away and challenged him,

A gun? Great job, Chief Wiggins!

Posted by: t-bird at July 24, 2012 01:14 PM (FcR7P)

166 Groin, throat and leg guards makes me think he was probably wearing catchers gear. If anyone in that theater had attacked him with a baseball, they would have been dead meat.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at July 24, 2012 01:14 PM (+lsX1)

167 >I use my tactical rubber to intimidate the ladies.......

Always buy quality. I've had mine in my wallet since 7th grade.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2012 01:14 PM (zlvkY)

168 He should be drug behind a pickup....through cactus....and gravel.
Until there is nothing left of him.

---

Not everyone shares your opinion. Link to tweets about how cool and attractive the killer clown is.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/czpnpqx

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 24, 2012 01:15 PM (Hx5uv)

169 He was too well equipped, so the solution is to disarm the victims even more? This is inane even by liberal standards.
Posted by: Oldcat at July 24, 2012 01:12 PM (z1N6a)

We need to have serial killers ONLY shoot in the alleys. Leave the children alone...

Posted by: Rahm Emanuel at July 24, 2012 01:15 PM (136wp)

170 For decades it was "The bad guy will take your gun away and use it against you!"

Now the new refrain is "You wouldn't hit him before he killed you / He's got body armor / You might shoot a bystander / blah, blah, blah...."

Perhaps the hoplophobes could explain to everyone why this is always the scenario we're given:

Shooter: Evil little douchebag shitstain with zero firearms experience.

CCW holder: Probably enjoys monthly range practice and often has years, if not decades, of firearms experience.

CCW's Challenge Level for this exercise : You're taking out Jason Fucking Bourne!!!

Posted by: B at July 24, 2012 01:16 PM (11H3F)

171 @ 20. Re:the LA BOA shootout.

The police may have commandeered long guns from the sprorting goods store, but it was a SWAT officer with his Dept. issued M4 that wounded (incapacitated) one gunman, and a self inflicted head shot that put down the other.

Posted by: The Fist Of Goodness at July 24, 2012 01:17 PM (blkVM)

172
Maybe I'm just being p--ssy today (doing quarterly taxes tends to do that to me), but how do the police manage to kill innocent citizens who are defending their familiesfrom warrentless home invasionsyetsomehow go out of their way to capturecriminals who just murdered others without putting a stratch onto the perp?

Posted by: Mark E at July 24, 2012 01:17 PM (w5RwR)

173 A "bullet proof" vest doesn't magically dissipate the kinetic force of the bullet right? The bullet may not kill you but it still packs a wallop.

Posted by: gwelf at July 24, 2012 01:17 PM (nyxv/)

174 Body Armor or not, you get hit with a .45 ACP - you're going down. The armor might stop the bullet, but the concussive force is still enough to stop your heart.

Besides... those of us who have CHL's (like myself) know, or at least should know:

Hit center mass twice. If the perp doesn't go down, and you think he's wearing body armor - start taking head shots.

Posted by: Naqamel at July 24, 2012 01:17 PM (UMwMT)

175

When Nerds Go Wild

Posted by: Soothsayer at July 24, 2012 01:17 PM (9Q7Nu)

176 To add, if a CCW-er had been present and was able to limit the deaths and injuries, would The One™ take credit for it (You didn't shoot that, someone else gave you the privilege to Concealed Carry)?

Posted by: John P. Squibob at July 24, 2012 01:17 PM (kqqGm)

177 CCW's Challenge Level for this exercise : You're taking out Jason Fucking Bourne!!! Posted by: B at July 24, 2012 01:16 PM (11H3F)

In that case I'd want an anti-tank ditch and a 3:1 antipersonnel/anti-tank minefield as back up.

Napalm is nice too. I like napalm.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 24, 2012 01:17 PM (sbV1u)

178 "As Gordon Liddy once said: Don't attempt the head shot, shoot them in the groin."

That's still a head shot.

Posted by: speedster1 at July 24, 2012 01:18 PM (v40Bj)

179 "He was wearing his tightie-whities on the outside of his tactical pants."

But they were tactical tightie whities, we need to ban the sale of them immediately.

Posted by: gebrauchshund at July 24, 2012 01:18 PM (iYwUw)

180 The armed citizen would not necessarily have been at a disadvantage, firing from the cover of the seats without the worry of innocents in the background.

Agree and disagree (but mostly agree). Regarding innocents in the background potentially being shot, it may be that no one IN the theater would have been hit by return fire, but one of the stories I've heard from witnesses is that dyed-hair-lunatic's rounds were punching holes in the walls into the neighboring theater. I take that with a grain of salt, since theater walls aren't wafer thin even in crappy theaters, but I also trust the witnesses who actually experienced what was happening. Assumedly if an armed audience member, blinded by tear gas and darkness, had fired back at dyed-hair-lunatic, there's a chance those bullets may have done the same thing, gone through the wall(s), and potentially injured or killed someone.

That's a pretty big "maybe," mind you, and not one that I'd be too worried about if there was a chance to take down a psycho and save dozens of people.

But I'm a pedantic twit, so there you have it.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter at July 24, 2012 01:18 PM (4df7R)

181 #168

No.Words.

One of the tweeters who thinks Holmes is hot: (from Twitchy)



I mean I thought James Holmes was looking kinda cute in the court room, lololol


Clearly an Obamabot. And insane.



Posted by: Jane D'oh at July 24, 2012 01:18 PM (UOM48)

182 If you are liking this Slate coverage you should remember that the style guide at Reason.com requires the word 'centrist' to always be present when that publication is mentioned.

Posted by: Gordon undead Ramsay at July 24, 2012 01:19 PM (9HhTH)

183 "For decades it was "The bad guy will take your gun away and use it against you!"
Gawd I remember that bullshit. That's Stupid of mythological proportions.

Posted by: Brian Ross, Sooper Slooth at July 24, 2012 01:19 PM (rX1N2)

184 As I read it "somewhere", and that place was online, it has to be true.

---

Yeah. It's not like it was on ABC News.

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 24, 2012 01:19 PM (Hx5uv)

185 Shooter: Evil little douchebag shitstain with zero firearms experience.

CCW holder: Probably enjoys monthly range practice and often has years, if not decades, of firearms experience.

CCW's Challenge Level for this exercise : You're taking out Jason Fucking Bourne!!!


Perfect!

Posted by: Andy at July 24, 2012 01:20 PM (5Rurq)

186
@168 ....Link to tweets about how cool and attractive the killer clown is.

http://preview.tinyurl.com/czpnpqx


That's probably why he did it.....for just that sort of recognition.
Arrrgh.
That is disgusting.
This rotten sonovabitch is now being treated like some sort of celebrity.

Posted by: wheatie at July 24, 2012 01:20 PM (MbB0O)

187 He was wearing his tightie-whities on the outside of his tactical pants.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 24, 2012 01:13 PM (EQpRL)


His TACTICAL tightie-whities, EoJ. In holding with the meme.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter at July 24, 2012 01:20 PM (4df7R)

188 I wonder how many rounds of ammo a Reuters or AP photographers vest will hold?

Posted by: Dang at July 24, 2012 01:21 PM (Ky1+e)

189 Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 24, 2012 01:17 PM (sbV1u)

I actually like the movies, but they are, as you know, total bullshit.

One guy with a side-by-side 12 guage isn't going to be able to take out a trained sniper with a .308.

Napalm is nice, but...claymores....I want claymores for my home.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 24, 2012 01:21 PM (nEUpB)

190 One other thing about shooting at the legs. Odds are the bullet is going to break or shatter a bone. That sure as hell is going to bring the assailent down...

Posted by: HH at July 24, 2012 01:21 PM (v+ExF)

191 @ 36: The point is, that the shooter expects certain things to happen. Being
attacked is not one of them. If someone had shot at him, body armor or
no, it could have so surprised him, that he could have been unnerved and
fled.


It is called getting inside his OODA (Observe, Orient, Decide, Act) loop.

Posted by: The Fist Of Goodness at July 24, 2012 01:21 PM (blkVM)

192 An historical account that's somewhat analogous . Any buffs remember the demise of the James , Younger gang . Went into a town in Minnesota ? to rob the bank and got shot to doll rags by the citizenry .
Please correct my fallible memory .

Posted by: awkward davies at July 24, 2012 01:21 PM (Jp1VY)

193
In that case I'd want an anti-tank ditch and a 3:1 antipersonnel/anti-tank minefield as back up.

Napalm is nice too. I like napalm.<<<<

Me, too. It sticks to kids.

How about some triple-strand concertina wire and some tanglefoot?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 24, 2012 01:22 PM (EQpRL)

194 Due process sucks sometimes. I am not very much in love with it today.

Posted by: and irresolute at July 24, 2012 01:22 PM (Q492A)

195 There was one particular piece of equipment that he had on him that was
out of place and I am so proud of my officers that they spotted that
right away and challenged him,” said Aurora, Colorado Police Department
Chief Dan Oates


Yeah, even in Aurora, CO, there probably aren't too many SWAT dudes wearing Carrot Top 'dos. That might have given 'em a clue....

Several people here have made the point re the shooter that, IMO, absolutely wipes out the so-called argument in Slate: the shooter almost surely didn't have combat training or experience. If some amateur gunslinger had let off a shot at him, I'd expect to see a two-step response from the shooter: 1) crap pants massively, and 2) run screaming out the door, leaving a trail of liquid excrement any cop could follow.

Posted by: MrScribbler at July 24, 2012 01:22 PM (wZI4b)

196 We already had a debate about gun control.

In 1783.

Posted by: xbradtc at July 24, 2012 01:22 PM (+FFD7)

197 .Link to tweets about how cool and attractive the killer clown is.

From which prison?

Posted by: t-bird at July 24, 2012 01:22 PM (FcR7P)

198 I wonder how many rounds of ammo a Reuters or AP photographers vest will hold?


Posted by: Dang


Oh yeah, the photographer's vests don't come in black so they're okay.

Posted by: Dang at July 24, 2012 01:22 PM (Ky1+e)

199 There are plenty of gun owners here, and a fair number of CCWers. Any one of us, if there, and carrying, would've killed this little fucker.

It's entirely possible that whoever the unlucky hypothetical moron was that was there would've died, but they would've saved lives doing it.

Then some accidental lesbo pron would've been linked in their honor.


Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2012 01:22 PM (zlvkY)

200 Ice-T Defends Gun Rights: "The Last Form Of Defense Against Tyranny"

http://tinyurl.com/cbsajsl

Same guy who wrote "Cop Killer"?

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at July 24, 2012 01:23 PM (136wp)

201
Posted by: wheatie at July 24, 2012 01:20 PM (MbB0O) <<<<<<<




Nothing is really new. Look how people protected the James Gang, John Wesley Hardin, etc. Cold blooded murderers, and each and every one more man on the gayest day of his life than Holmes. Hell, these days even the mass murderers are fucking pussified cupcakes.

Posted by: maddogg at July 24, 2012 01:23 PM (OlN4e)

202 >>>I want claymores for my home.

THIS SIDE TOWARD ENEMY

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 24, 2012 01:23 PM (0q2P7)

203 85 >>>"Ballistic nylon", when spoken by the same foolsNylon sounds like a really shitty projectile material. Lead is cheap. DU is better. But pantyhose?

----------

Saw a cocktail waitress in Reno once that looked 85 years old, but had the nicest smooth legs you ever saw. I'm pretty certain she was wearing ballistic nylon pantyhose.

Posted by: Anachronda at July 24, 2012 01:23 PM (xGZ+b)

204
173 A "bullet proof" vest doesn't magically dissipate the kinetic force of the bullet right? The bullet may not kill you but it still packs a wallop.
Posted by: gwelf at July 24, 2012 01:17 PM (nyxv/)


Exactly! Even if it only made him stumble (and more likely knocked him off his feet) you've got the opportunity to escape, or disarm and disable him.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter at July 24, 2012 01:23 PM (4df7R)

205 Naqamel: On a .45 ACP would the concussive force be any different if it was a Hydroshock as opposed to FMJ?

Posted by: John P. Squibob at July 24, 2012 01:24 PM (kqqGm)

206 "Reason.com requires the word 'centrist' to always be present when that publication is mentioned."

Time for my obligatory Reason bashing comment about every time those assholes get all giddy over how totally super awesome illegal immigrants are for this country.

I haven't regarded their judgment asentirely stablefor quite awhile.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at July 24, 2012 01:24 PM (rX1N2)

207 Here I am, rank amateur making headshots with a 2.5 inch revolver. No, I wasn't in the dark or being shot at but did have the pressure of knowing the clock was running. Oh and I hit every head shot. Required on all but the first target on the stage http://tinyurl.com/bvyuvts

Posted by: Scott J at July 24, 2012 01:24 PM (5M+pt)

208 >>>Napalm is nice too. I like napalm. Me, too. It sticks to kids.

NAPALM NAPALM
FLAMING GOO
STICKS TO THE WOMEN
AND THE LITTLE KIDS TOO!


Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2012 01:25 PM (zlvkY)

209 192 An historical account that's somewhat analogous . Any buffs remember the demise of the James , Younger gang . Went into a town in Minnesota ? to rob the bank and got shot to doll rags by the citizenry .
Please correct my fallible memory .
Posted by: awkward davies at July 24, 2012 01:21 PM (Jp1VY)

Northfield Bank Raid. September 7, 1876.

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at July 24, 2012 01:25 PM (136wp)

210 "Please correct my fallible memory ."

Northfield. Got their asses handed to 'em pretty much.

Posted by: HH at July 24, 2012 01:25 PM (v+ExF)

211
[redacted], when establishment pundits told us to stop attacking Mitt Romney's record of offshoring jobs and profits at Bain Capital, we kept talking. We knew Romney's American-job killing background was a winner for Democrats.

Turns out we were right. Romney has been on the defensive for weeks now about his history of offshoring, and polling shows it's hurting his image in swing states.

We need to keep this story going. Please, chip in $3 to Daily Kos to help us keep Romney's offshoring in the news.

Every step of the way, Daily Kos has helped lead the charge on this one: More than 200 Daily Kos articles on Mitt Romney's finances and history of offshoring have been collectively shared more than 100,000 times on Facebook, Twitter and other social media.

On Friday morning, we helped deliver more than 245,000 signatures to Mitt Romney's campaign headquarters demanding that he release multiple years of his tax returns.

We published the first photographic evidence confirming that the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympic torch bearer uniforms were, under Mitt Romney's watch, made in Burma.

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Our news and actions about Mitt Romney's financial records have appeared in The New Yorker, The Boston Globe, The Huffington Post, Talking Points Memo, The Hill and more.

This is a good start, but we have to keep pushing. Conservatives are eager to try and get this story to disappear from the news, and with the election still very close that is something we cannot afford.

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Keep fighting,
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Campaign Director, Daily Kos

Posted by: Soothsayer at July 24, 2012 01:25 PM (9Q7Nu)

212 Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 24, 2012 01:23 PM (0q2P7)

I'll introduce you to our neighbors and you will understand.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 24, 2012 01:25 PM (nEUpB)

213 ya know, I'd be OK with if they issued bean-bag guns to the audience...

Posted by: Eric Holder at July 24, 2012 01:26 PM (136wp)

214 Thanks guys .
Northfield Minn. ?

Posted by: awkward davies at July 24, 2012 01:26 PM (Jp1VY)

215
hahaha @ "spreading the truth about Mitt Romney"

they're spreading something, alright

Posted by: Soothsayer at July 24, 2012 01:26 PM (9Q7Nu)

216 An historical account that's somewhat analogous . Any buffs remember the
demise of the James , Younger gang . Went into a town in Minnesota ? to
rob the bank and got shot to doll rags by the citizenry .

Please correct my fallible memory .

---

Northfield, Minnesota. Same thing happened to the Dalton gang at Coffeeville, Kansas.

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 24, 2012 01:26 PM (Hx5uv)

217 Me, too. It sticks to kids. How about some triple-strand concertina wire and some tanglefoot? Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 24, 2012 01:22 PM (EQpRL)

C'mon, this is Jason Fucking Bourne we're talking about! Tanglefoot? He'd just jump over that.

If I could be assured I'd be outside of the burst radius, I'd add some 4.2" WP mortar rounds though.


Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 24, 2012 01:26 PM (sbV1u)

218 @200
Yeah if you read his argument its based on arming yourself against the police not the fed govt. so its kind of consistent withhis prior pov.

Posted by: Y-not on phone at July 24, 2012 01:26 PM (5H6zj)

219
Oh, and theater seats aren't *cover*, they're *concealment*.

A 5.56mm will sail through a cushion and 1/4 in. plastic back like it wasn't there. But firing from the kneeling is always a good idea. The inexperienced tend to fire only at what they can see.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 24, 2012 01:26 PM (EQpRL)

220 95 Megyn Kelly on Fox reporting the killer "slept like a baby" his first night in jail.

--------

Maybe she meant he woke up every couple of hours crying.

Posted by: Anachronda at July 24, 2012 01:27 PM (NmR1a)

221 Northfield Bank Raid. September 7, 1876.
Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at July 24, 2012 01:25 PM (136wp)

From Wiki

"Local citizens soon realized a robbery was in progress and several took up arms from local hardware stores. Shooting from behind cover, they poured a deadly fire on the terrorist outlaws, killing Miller and Chadwell, and wounding the Younger brothers (Bob suffered a shattered elbow. Jim was shot in the jaw) Nicholas Gustafson, a recent Swedish immigrant, was killed by Cole Younger at the corner of Fifth Street and Division."

Posted by: Eric Holder at July 24, 2012 01:28 PM (136wp)

222 I'm really surprised that the MFM would get something like this wrong, and in precisely a way that would further their gun-grabbing narrative.

Posted by: Nobody at July 24, 2012 01:28 PM (I2LwF)

223 Northfield, Minnesota. Same thing happened to the Dalton gang at Coffeeville, Kansas.


Posted by: WalrusRex

"Remember Coffeeville" would make a good tee shirt.

Posted by: Dang at July 24, 2012 01:28 PM (Ky1+e)

224
nood pots

Posted by: Soothsayer at July 24, 2012 01:28 PM (9Q7Nu)

225 From which prison?
Posted by: t-bird at July 24, 2012 01:22 PM (FcR7P)


HAH!

Actually, yeah. I wonder if we could hold some sort of raffle. "How many cigarettes would you pay to make sure dyed-hair-lunatic goes to YOUR prison to become YOUR personal bitch? The more you donate, the more chances you get! And remember -- he's a child killer!" Then you could collect the cigarettes and sell them down in Tijuana or somewhere and donate the money to the NRA. It wouldn't be a LOT of money, but dyed-hair-lunatic isn't worth two nickels, so it would still be a profit.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO Supporter at July 24, 2012 01:29 PM (4df7R)

226 Why is there so much propaganda surrounding this incident?

Posted by: Beto at July 24, 2012 01:29 PM (BAnPT)

227 >> Naqamel: On a .45 ACP would the concussive force be any different if it was a Hydroshock as opposed to FMJ?

Not if it hit a vest. Then both transfer 100% of their kinetic energy and you're just dealing with good ol' 1/2mv^2.

Posted by: Andy at July 24, 2012 01:30 PM (5Rurq)

228 Weird how those old timers managed to foil state of the art bad guys just by courage and everyday toughness .
Well , courage , toughness , and civilian weaponry .

Posted by: awkward davies at July 24, 2012 01:30 PM (Jp1VY)

229 From which prison?

Posted by: t-bird at July 24, 2012 01:22 PM (FcR7P)


I'm sure there are some prisoners who would love to pretend they're getting a blow job from Lucille Ball.

Posted by: Dang at July 24, 2012 01:30 PM (Ky1+e)

230 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 24, 2012 01:26 PM (EQpRL)

And this guy was not trained. So he wasn't seeing any better in the dark and the smoke than the hypothetical CCW who is shooting back. Plus, Cowardly Scumbag wasn't expecting to receive return fire inside the theater.

All of this adds up to a reasonable chance for a CCW to minimize the death toll.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 24, 2012 01:31 PM (nEUpB)

231 but one of the stories I've heard from witnesses is that
dyed-hair-lunatic's rounds were punching holes in the walls into the
neighboring theater


I suspect the demising walls in that theater were 2 hour fire-rated walls; you can get that with 2 layers of 5/8 inch drywall per side on metal studs, or (more probably) 8 inch concrete block with grout or insulation fill. I think an AK round would penetrate 8 inch block, even with fill, and cause trouble on the other side. Drywall wouldn't even slow it down.

Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at July 24, 2012 01:31 PM (VMcoS)

232 This guy was dummied up in ballistic nylon gear. Not remotely Bullet Proof.

Posted by: Beto at July 24, 2012 01:31 PM (BAnPT)

233 95 Megyn Kelly on Fox reporting the killer "slept like a baby" his first night in jail.



--------



Maybe she meant he woke up every couple of hours crying after shitting in his pants.


FIFY

Posted by: John P. Squibob at July 24, 2012 01:32 PM (kqqGm)

234

"Will you visit me in prison?" <--- Isn't this what this douchebag, Holmes, had on his profile on that dating site?

This will be admissable in court, right? ....In his trial?
This indicates that the guy was contemplating doing something....something that he knew would get him put in jail.
....Something that was wrong.
So he knew the difference between right and wrong.

Posted by: wheatie at July 24, 2012 01:32 PM (MbB0O)

235 First, it's not like body armor is a new invention. As a matter of fact, its use played a significant part in one of the most infamous crimes in recent history, the "North Hollywood Shootout" in 1997. This incident didn't herald a wave of body-armored criminals roaming the streets, and there's no reason to think Aurora will either.

The North Hollywood bank robbers used the movie "Heat" for inspiration.

Think the MBM would think to blame Michael Mann and Warner Brothers for that?

Not if they want to keep getting paid they don't

Posted by: kbdabear at July 24, 2012 01:32 PM (Y7XKa)

236
C'mon, this is Jason Fucking Bourne we're talking about! Tanglefoot? He'd just jump over that.<<<<

Fucking Cav...

That's what the triple strand is for. He jumps THAT, then lands in the tanglefoot, which has a fuckton of snare wire attached to some M16 Bouncing Betties. After he's cut in half, shoot his torso, because it'll probably be screaming at this point.

Your job is to screen against Triple X. Let the grunts handle the defense, m'kay?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 24, 2012 01:32 PM (EQpRL)

237 I am shocked we have been lied to... not.

There was a church shooting in Aurora in April. Some guy opened fire.. killed one.. but an ARMED citizen killed him.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at July 24, 2012 01:33 PM (DGIjM)

238

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I just read that Carolyn
McCarthy is now bleating about buying ammo online and the current ammo
laws.

“OMG, he had thousands of rounds
of ammo he ordered online!!!!”

Yes, and around 90-95% of them were
sitting in his apartment, you idiot. I’d like to hang 6k rounds off of
her and watch her collapse to the floor in a heap.

It never ceases to amaze me how
utterly devoid of any logical thought processes these morons are yet people see
no problem in letting these idiots run their life. Carolyn McCarthy’s
sole entry on her resume for elected office is “My husband was shot in a gun free city” therefore
she is entitled to represent thousands of people on a variety of important
issues. She probably couldn’t do 40% of the crossword puzzle in the
Resume Speed, LA newspaper but there she sits in Congress.

These idiots will never
understand shooting. Having 6k rounds of ammo is called “that corner over
there” at my house. I shoot, my wife shoots, and my three sons shoot. I'm not even sure I have a relative on either side of my family that doesn't own a gun.


Posted by: B at July 24, 2012 01:33 PM (11H3F)

239 Honestly, one of the things I hate about these "Emotive Television Moments" is the utter abandonment of adulthood it engenders in the American conscience. "Our thoughts and prayers go out to....". I'm sorry, but that is just so much bullshit. Real life is "This family doesn't have the money to bury their kid, so pony the fuck up with the cash". It's "Fry this asshole. Publicly. In bacon grease. Pour encourager les autres." It's "They attacked us? Till their soil six feet deep with JDAMs before you dump the salt on it". I hate "memorials" when what is necessary is real work.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at July 24, 2012 01:33 PM (zlvkY)

240 Posted by: Andy at July 24, 2012 01:30 PM (5Rurq)

Momentum is a bitch.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 24, 2012 01:33 PM (nEUpB)

241 This guy was dummied up in ballistic nylon gear. Not remotely Bullet Proof Posted by: Beto at July 24, 2012 01:31 PM (BAnPT)

No shit, huh?

Guys like Saletan see the word "ballistic" and all of a sudden they think they're in a episode of CSI: Miami.

I have a prediction. Number of corrections later posted to his article?

Zero.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 24, 2012 01:33 PM (sbV1u)

242 The only way to keep you all safe and secure, with a fail proof world is to lock you all up into little cribs and make you wear harnesses when you walk

Oh, we'll let you watch tv with some curse words and a glimpse of Olivia Wilde's bare ass so you'll think you're living in a free society

Posted by: MBM unspoken agenda at July 24, 2012 01:35 PM (Y7XKa)

243 Well, that last post of mine shit the bed....

Posted by: B at July 24, 2012 01:35 PM (11H3F)

244
breathless piece in Amateur Webzine Slate



Will Saletan covers science, technology, and politics for Slate and says a lot things that get him in trouble.

Well. at least Slate is getting their bios right.

Also, another "Republican" who went off the rails when Bush came out against gay marriage.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 24, 2012 01:35 PM (kdS6q)

245 Your job is to screen against Triple X. Let the grunts handle the defense, m'kay Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 24, 2012 01:32 PM (EQpRL)

By all means. I love cannon fodder.It lightens my work day during the counterattack.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 24, 2012 01:36 PM (sbV1u)

246 The cheapest vest I could find on the net was $400. It was the extra thin version ie probably couldn't stop anything bigger than a .380. The better vests were all well over $500. I doubt we're going to see gangs running around in them.

Posted by: Adam_s at July 24, 2012 01:38 PM (/YJYi)

247 "Will you visit me in prison?" <--- Isn't this what this douchebag, Holmes, had on his profile on that dating site?

This will be admissable in court, right? ....In his trial?
This indicates that the guy was contemplating doing something....something that he knew would get him put in jail.
....Something that was wrong.
So he knew the difference between right and wrong.

Posted by: wheatie at July 24, 2012 01:32 PM (MbB0O)


The guy could start diagramming sentences and critiquing Shakespeare and the insanity folks wouldn't care.

Posted by: Oldcat at July 24, 2012 01:39 PM (z1N6a)

248
The notion that body armor makes an active shooter is ludicrous. I can understand why ill-informed leftist pansy hacks are all atwitter over it. ButI can't understand the otherwise-sane gunny types fretting over how bad a shit sandwich the situation was and how ineffective they'd be against such a superhuman threat.

Kevlar "gives" when it's hit. How would you react if someone hit you in the chest with a framing hammer? Would it decrease your effectiveness as a murderous asshole? Would it knock the wind out of you? Would it break a rib. Would a shot off your helmet ring your bell?

Let's talk about the gaps in the armor. How many cops and soldiers have lost their lives when a shot snuck in underneath or between their plates? Extremeties? How'd you like a 124 grain hollowpoint run longitudinally up your arm as it's holding your assault rifle?

Sure, this situation is a shit sandwich for even a well-trained CCW holder. Sorry,but the good guys don't get to set the ground rules. Flee if you can. Fight like a Honey Badger if you must. Use the best tools in your inventory to survive and,if possible, protect your family and innocent life. That tool, in all reasonable scenarios, is a sidearm.A pistol. Put rounds onto the bastard until he stops. Close with violence of action until you win. The bad guy has made it such that you are dead already. The only logical thing to do is to fight to live some more.

Posted by: Jaws at July 24, 2012 01:39 PM (4I3Uo)

249

By all means. I love cannon fodder.It lightens my work day during the counterattack<<<<

You and your fancy-ass spurs and Stetson. Actually, kinda still jealous about that. That looks bad-ass.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 24, 2012 01:40 PM (EQpRL)

250 According to at least one report the shooter was arrested because a responding officer identified that 'something' was not right with his tactical gear, but the police declined to specify what specifically that was.

That lack of an actual armor under the ammo vest might have been the glaring 'something is wrong with this picture.'

Posted by: ThomasD at July 24, 2012 01:41 PM (FNTWi)

251 Well, that last post of mine shit the bed....


Posted by: B at July 24, 2012 01:35 PM (11H3F)


Yeah, if you are gonna compose outside of the comment box, use a plain text editor like notepad or the free Notepad++ app.

Posted by: Oldcat at July 24, 2012 01:41 PM (z1N6a)

252 According to at least one report the shooter was
arrested because a responding officer identified that 'something' was
not right with his tactical gear, but the police declined to specify
what specifically that was.

That lack of an actual armor under the ammo vest might have been the glaring 'something is wrong with this picture.'


Posted by: ThomasD at July 24, 2012 01:41 PM (FNTWi)

So not coming in the van with the rest of the cops was a tipoff?

Posted by: Oldcat at July 24, 2012 01:42 PM (z1N6a)

253
Oh shock! An ignorant child at Slate, who doesn't own a firearm, calls an NRA argument dead is like so believable!
The shooter could have totally taken 20 rounds from some dumb CCW Tea Party Yokel! He could have!!!!!!

Posted by: Jay at July 24, 2012 01:43 PM (3LaGb)

254 There is almost nothing in this world better at distracting someone shooting at you than returning fire. Based on what I see on the tube ( it has to be true right?) is that he was a novice at best so I'm guessing he's never had to shoot while being shot at. Whole different ballgame right there friend. Though I will admit in a theater with the lights off, smokeand the sound blaring I'm not sure too many people out there would have recognized the threat right away and started shooting back.

Posted by: Talibill at July 24, 2012 01:43 PM (WEWGu)

255 Thanks for the reminder, Oldcat. Too much multitasking going on today. :-)

Posted by: B at July 24, 2012 01:43 PM (11H3F)

256 There is actually a drill intended to simulate an armored opponent, the "Mozambique Drill", also known as "two to the chest, one to the head." The rhythm is bang-bang..bang. The pause is to see if the center-mass double-tap worked, if you get no reaction then shoot for the nose and the assumption is that the target is armored. The Mozambique Drill dates from the 1970s or 1980s, it is not even a new concept.

The more recent modification of the Mozambique is two to the head, one (or more) to the pelvis. Modern vests don't extend much below the navel, and if you break someone's pelvis they can't stand. Much harder to do damage to others if prone or supine. Plus, the head is a lousy target. The pelvis moves around a lot less.

Criminals have been using body armor since the 1930s at least. For someone to suggest that this invalidates the right to self-defense with a firearm is to confess their ignorance of history, firearms and tactical thought. Body armor makes it harder, but not impossible, to defeat a threat with a handgun.

Posted by: Darren at July 24, 2012 01:43 PM (cKoDv)

257 "Your job is to screen against Triple X"

He's supposed to stop porn from getting in?

I weep for my country.

Posted by: gebrauchshund at July 24, 2012 01:44 PM (iYwUw)

258 You and your fancy-ass spurs and Stetson. Actually, kinda still jealous about that. That looks bad-ass.Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 24, 2012 01:40 PM (EQpRL)

I gave mine away when I retired in 2006.

To this guy I am still kicking myself. WHAT a frackin' IDIOT!

On the other hand, I will kill the person that touches either of my command guidons. I had two and command was the best job I ever had.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 24, 2012 01:45 PM (sbV1u)

259 This is the stupid. It was an AK-47 then it was a AR-15, now one report says he fired a Smith and Wesson 223 MP.

There is no such gun. The MP is a pistol. These people are fucking urban toads that wouldn't know a M-14 from a Colt 45.

Anything black is Assault shit. Most of this shit is the same stuff EMT's wear, except their vests have medical shit in them.


The cops are to blame for this too. Ginning up the threat makes them look so good.

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo-intellectual at July 24, 2012 01:48 PM (3ZjAP)

260 Used to work armed security back in the 90s and wore a Class III vest. Another reason you don't see gangbangers wearing body armor is it's heavy, restricts movement, and hot as hell to have on in the summertime.

Posted by: Lemmenkainen at July 24, 2012 01:48 PM (ZWvOb)

261 I have both Kevlar inserts and ballistic rifle plates. I bought them on line a number of years ago. It covers your center mass but leaves a lot of your body vulnerable. I would hope an opponent thought it made him bullet proof.

Posted by: polynikes at July 24, 2012 01:50 PM (z+Xap)

262
BTW - Saletan also has an article over at Slate insisting that homosexuals be allowed to donate blood, despite long-standing successful screening criteria, because of -- um -- civil rights or something.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 24, 2012 01:52 PM (kdS6q)

263 "Some would call that "center mass". "

Andy: Perfect. Just perfect.

And note that having a 'bullet-proof vest' does not just magically render all of the energy of the bullet null and void. Unless you are being shot by a really low energy round, getting hit in the vest by that sucker is going to hurt. (There are a few exceptions, but hey, there always are.)

Posted by: Whiskey Mike at July 24, 2012 01:54 PM (q++hH)

264 Wouldn't hurt to carry a couple of decent sized, heavy rocks in my pockets everywhere I go.

Posted by: i like anchors 2012 at July 24, 2012 01:54 PM (gMONh)

265 #259 its M&P Smith and Wesson Ar 15 .M&P stands for Military and Police.

Posted by: polynikes at July 24, 2012 01:55 PM (zEeUf)

266 Oh, and theater seats aren't *cover*, they're *concealment*.

The theater seat isn't cover but the 300 pounder wedged into it is. If they drove in on a rascal, you even have a makeshift armored vehicle.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at July 24, 2012 01:57 PM (+lsX1)

267 We already had a debate about gun control. In 1783.
Posted by: xbradtc at July 24, 2012 01:22 PM (+FFD7)


Indeed.

Someone needs to point that out to Romney; he was on Kudblow's show defending his Assault weapons ban.

Posted by: Larsen E. Whipsnade at July 24, 2012 01:58 PM (6BgmB)

268
There is no such gun. The MP is a pistol. These people are fucking urban toads that wouldn't know a M-14 from a Colt 45. <<<

No, they do make an MP carbine, as well. The gas system is different from the Stoner - based AR platform, IIRC.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 24, 2012 02:01 PM (EQpRL)

269
Posted by: Darren at July 24, 2012 01:43 PM (cKoDv)

I trained myself to shoot the low bellybutton area (between bellybutton and groin) with the first shot... then the second goes to the head.... on a double tap.

Does two things.... if your first shot is low? your second shot goes center mass...

If your first shot is high? as often happens under stress? its a head shot...

But then, I'm a .45 guy.... so even if you're wearing body armor its gonna knock you on your ass...

Posted by: Romeo13 at July 24, 2012 02:02 PM (lZBBB)

270
With occasional dunks in a vat of Bactine rubbing alcohol.

FIFY

Posted by: Ed Anger at July 24, 2012 02:03 PM (7+pP9)

271
It was the SIG carbine that is a piston-pusher, but go to Smith and Wesson's site.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 24, 2012 02:07 PM (EQpRL)

272 "This indicates that the guy was contemplating doing something....something that he knew would get him put in jail. "

Rigging his apartment to
a) blare loud music so that neighbors would call in a noise complaint
b) blow sky-high under the assumption that responding police would knock in the door on a noise-complaint after no one came to the door (which is stupid...)

Might also lend validity to prosecution's argument that this whole thing was planned and premeditated.

Posted by: Sarah Silverman at July 24, 2012 02:07 PM (sPO/s)

273 OH! FUCKING SOCK!

Posted by: reason at July 24, 2012 02:08 PM (sPO/s)

274
Buying ammo online is one of the greatest experiences which human beings are capable of having. I suggest slickguns.com and ammoengine myself-

Posted by: DAve at July 24, 2012 02:10 PM (w5aay)

275 Look closely at the pictures of the killer. Take away his orange hair. Looks like Tax Cheater Geitner's twin! Same bulgy eyes and ferret looking face.

Posted by: Schwalbe: The Me-262© at July 24, 2012 02:10 PM (UU0OF)

276
Ihave a Sig Sauer P220carry .45
I don't care what the guy was wearing, if I were able to hit him twice in the chest he would be in some serious pain.

Posted by: Jay at July 24, 2012 02:11 PM (3LaGb)

277 Defensive pistol is one of thegreatest sports ever. Everyone is so polite-

Posted by: DAve at July 24, 2012 02:15 PM (w5aay)

278
47 As Rush pointed out yesterday - 1. 2nd Amendment's been around over 200 years 2. Pistols over 150 years Why weren't there mass shootings in the past?
Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at July 24, 2012 12:49 PM (136wp)

you prolly mean "revolvers" pistols/handguns go back much further

Posted by: chas at July 24, 2012 02:21 PM (TKF1Y)

279 Posted by: Sarah Silverman at July 24, 2012 02:07 PM (sPO/s)

as "intelligent" as this guy supposedly is that was a stupid move on his part ,thankfully. apparently his neighbors didnt call in a complaint so he didnt get his diversion, or if they did call it was so low on the cop's list they never got around to it. he overthought and overplanned and it actually saved lives. he couldve rigged his apt to blow on its own killing more and getting his diversion which may have let him continue shooting. it was very fortunate he was too smart for his own good in that aspect of his plan.

Posted by: chas at July 24, 2012 02:26 PM (TKF1Y)

280 Jordan Ghawi serves Micheal Eric Dyson a plate full of STFU.

http://tinyurl.com/c4hfgbm

Posted by: RWC at July 24, 2012 02:44 PM (fWAjv)

281 You can get surplus body armor, police and military issue on many websites. Granted -- it is usually the 'retired' stuff since the manufacturers have to put an expire data on them for liability reasons.

Prices range from $60-$380 or so.

Also, the numbnuts that say a CCW carrier could not take this clown down are , well, fools.

My CCW of choice is a CZ 52, which fires a tokarev round that will piece any armor that is not better than type/class III. If this clown happened to have a type IV or better armor on then getting hit with my CZ would have knocked him on his ass while screaming from 5 broken ribs.

But the point that many have made stands: Getting hit with a 380, 40, 357, 45 will still knock the idiot down....at which point the double-tap rule comes into play.

Posted by: exsanguine at July 24, 2012 02:45 PM (C6/aX)

282
117 It's been pointed out that the doors to the theater had "No Weapons Allowed" signs.

Putting
this on the theater company bugs the shit out of me. You don't have to
comply. The usher is not going to frisk and arrest you for carrying a
concealed weapon. If you're going to carry, carry.

*
*
And in the utter insanity that our Bizarro World has become, the hero who stopped the loon, and saved who knows how many lives, would -- instead of getting a medal -- probably be arrested and charged with a felony.

The craziness and stupidity of our society today almost makes me want to start drinking again. And I've got more than a few years sober.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 24, 2012 03:28 PM (exvgC)

283 Anyone who has rendered aid to someone shot while wearing armor would laugh at these MSM idiots.

Posted by: Jean at July 24, 2012 03:30 PM (UA2kg)

284 Alex Jones, info wars, has been saying for days that this was a false flag. part of his questions about it include the photos of the police looking into the shooters apartment. he said none of the police were dressed in appropriate suits. Evidently when lice enter a dangerous site they usually wear protective armor, not just vests.

Posted by: Chilling themost at July 24, 2012 03:33 PM (6IV8T)

285
221 Northfield Bank Raid. September 7, 1876.

Posted by: The Huggable Robot Devil at July 24, 2012 01:25 PM (136wp)



From Wiki:


"Local citizens soon realized a robbery was in progress and several
took up arms from local hardware stores. Shooting from behind cover,
they poured a deadly fire on the terrorist outlaws, killing Miller and
Chadwell, and wounding the Younger brothers (Bob suffered a shattered
elbow. Jim was shot in the jaw) . . ."

*
*
How far we've fallen. As many people here have said in many ways, if the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor today we'd be apologizing to them in 48 hours.

Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 24, 2012 03:37 PM (exvgC)

286 We should be giving credit where credit is due. According to 0bama logic, James Holmes didn't do that. The government did. Holmes received a $26,000 grant from the government which he used to buy the guns, combat vest, etc. not to mention the materials he used to make the bombs he had his home booby trapped with. Plus he used the roads the government built to get to the theatre.

Posted by: Drew W. at July 24, 2012 03:41 PM (T9Zzx)

287 I'm wondering why, after all we learned on 9/11, nobody rushed him. It's hard to shoot straight when the view from your face, or your facemask if he was really wearing a helmet, is obscured by Big Gulp and nacho cheese.

Posted by: Pancho Goldberg at July 24, 2012 03:49 PM (i5153)

288 Where's all the police station photos??? They usually can't wait to put up a couple tables with all the seized body armour and machine guns. So where is it?
I'll tell you where - it doesn't exist. He was well armed and wearing SWAT-like fatigues and some sort of gas mask rig. Anything else and the cops would have it all over the ten o'clock news.

Posted by: chuck in st paul at July 24, 2012 04:20 PM (EhYdw)

289 I seem to remember a recent clip of Sen. Schumer calling for a ban on speed loaders and other shooting equipment.
I have a one of those demonic speed loaders to save wear on my thumb and fore finger. It only marginally reduces reloading time, either way it takes less than 30 seconds.
Schumer can have my speed loader when he takes it from my cold dead unblistered hand!
This sort of thing reminds of the AWB that said if a semi-auto rifle had a bayonet lug it was an AR or some such nonsense.
My point is, the main thing gun owners have in our favor is the utter ignorance of the gun grabbers about guns (and one constitutional amendment).

Posted by: Skunky Choom at July 24, 2012 04:24 PM (dm7Ev)

290 A single well placed .45 ACP would have knocked him on his ass screaming, body armor or not. Fifteen rounds from my .40SW Sigma would have made him quite incapacitated.

Anti gun ninnys would deny me my right to defend myself in hopes of removing the guns from the bad actors hands. This is sad to begin with that they are so devoid of logic but to be so completely wrong and closed minded. They are afraid. Of guns and gun owners who have been bold enough to stand up and protect themselves and their families.

Seems to me they want to be able to molest you and not get shot.

.02

Posted by: RFA at July 24, 2012 06:06 PM (EHHbA)

291 Concealed carry training course I took in VA 5 years ago (John Murphy at FPF Training, good guy) dealt with this exact situation, where the perp has body armor and you only have a pistol. Along with a class discussion about the guy in Texas who went up against a guy in body armor and lost.


Posted by: Spade at July 24, 2012 07:38 PM (9ElU4)

292 In keeping with our furry little ewok's lead, I didn't read all the above comments,so this might have already been covered, the 13th or so pic at this link from the Daily Mail shows what appears to be a IIA
style ballistic vest as well as a kevlar helmet, while not the same class of armor as todays military plate carriers, it will stop small caliber bullets from penetrating but is still going to feel like somebody is going after you with a 10 lb sledgehammer, I'm guessing he was wearing his "rampage vest" over it.

http://tinyurl.com/asshats-vest
direct link to pic
http://tinyurl.com/c2lw9xl

Posted by: Bob in Houston at July 24, 2012 07:49 PM (b7AU3)

293 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at July 24, 2012 08:26 PM (6o4Fb)

294 The Choom Gang can't stand the smell of pussy.

Posted by: Stark Dickflüssig at July 24, 2012 08:39 PM (NpR/e)

295 Is Stark Dickflussig trying to hook up with me?
I'm not down low, buddy.

Posted by: Skunky Choom at July 24, 2012 09:42 PM (AogGt)

296 1. The chances of someone in the crowd landing a headshot under those circumstances (if he wasn't wearing swat level helmet) were probably 1 in a million. Haven't seen specifically what he had other than it being described as full riot gear.
2. If 30 people had been armed:
10 wouldn't have pulled their weapon because they would have either been frozen in fear/shock or realized firing back would have drawn his attention.
5 Would have drawn and not fired knowing they didn't have a clear shot
5 Would have fired and been unable to land a significant shot due to the combination of chaos, environment, smoke grenades, and body armor
10 would have panicked and just unloaded their clips likely contributing the the casualties via "friendly fire".

I am for concealed carry but to think it makes you safer in EVERY scenario is as naive as thinking that simply banning assault weapons will make you safer. There are good reasons for some places of business to be gun free zones.

Posted by: B at July 25, 2012 11:54 AM (isIvH)

Posted by: patrioticduo at July 25, 2012 03:31 PM (T2Hsc)

298 Remember the Australian Ned Kelly. He went down too! And he was surrounded by home made armor plate.

Posted by: patrioticduo at July 25, 2012 03:32 PM (T2Hsc)

299 "I am for concealed carry but to think it makes you safer in EVERY
scenario is as naive as thinking that simply banning assault weapons
will make you safer. There are good reasons for some places of business
to be gun free zones."

But in this particular case, where not a single good person was armed at all, it is perfectly reasonable to argue that having armed good person present would, on balance, have been better than none.

My opinion is that an armed good person would have, at the very least, drawn fire and would therefore have saved the lives of some people who were completely, utterly, and hopelessly unable to help themselves. That armed person who shot back, whether alive or dead, would now be a hero. Had it turned out that others were accidentally injured or killed as a result of heroic actions, the family members of those "victims" would also see the hero for what it was and would grieve much less knowing that their dead friend or relative only died as part of heroic actions. Those caught in friendly fire would have lost their lives only because an armed hero fought back against pure evil.

Instead, all we have is many utterly hopeless victims and limited heroes that could only cover over their own loved one since they were given circumstances that made using their own bodies as shields as the only courageous thing they could do. There is no good story in any of this. It is all utterly hopeless. But for the presence of just one armed individual, the story could be dramatically different. It would be a story of hope, courage and steely resolve against impossible odds. Rather, we have a herd of human cattle lined up at a slaughter house, only able to turn and run, cower, freeze, die.

Do we want to see more geriatrics pursing young robbers out of banks with lead flying at them?

Or do we want to more mass casualties at the hands of indiscriminate Sideshow Bob?

Posted by: patrioticduo at July 25, 2012 03:50 PM (T2Hsc)

300 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2toZkIXh9VY&t=6m4s

Posted by: Anon at July 26, 2012 02:56 PM (O4hDA)

301
From thefounding, USAdeclared that all have a right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness"; these rights are inherent or "God given", not granted by the state. The right to life is first, thus mostimportant. Obviously the right to life includes the right to defend life,and it follows thatit is a personal responsibility.
Somewhat later it was stated by one of the founders that citizens have a responsibility to disobey laws incompatible with the constitution.
So how is it that we have decended to where the average citizen is willing to forfeitthe (inherent, god-given and Constutional) right to defend life; rather than to offend authority? Defending life is a personal responsibility at all times, it should not be delegated. Laws, rules and conventions that state otherwise should be disobeyed; discreetly if necessary, flagrantly if you can afford it.

Posted by: Snowleopard at July 30, 2012 03:11 PM (UyrRM)






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