Citizen With a Concealed Carry Permit (And, You Know, a Gun) Chases Off Two Bandits In Thwarted Internet Cafe Holdup
No deaths, but he plugged both of them.
The .380 he shoots them with doesn't really seem to slow them down at all. They appear uninjured. Just sayin'. I know guns don't really blow people off their feet as in Hollywood movies, but these non-lethal hits just don't seem to do anything to the crooks. Well, they do make them run like hell. At the end of the video, the bad guys are literally tripping over each other fleeing out the door. That's the best part. It appears the guy gives the gunman a warning, a command to drop his weapon, before firing. The criminal reacts before the citizen fires, so I assume he hailed him. Thanks to @comradearthur.
Both men were shot by Williams. Their wounds were not life-threatening. Each was arrested hours later and charged with attempted armed robbery with a firearm and felony criminal mischief.
Comments
Posted by: soothsayer at July 17, 2012 04:15 PM (9Q7Nu)
Posted by: Kaitian at July 17, 2012 04:16 PM (IXArx)
Posted by: wheatie at July 17, 2012 04:16 PM (MbB0O)
Posted by: lorien1973 at July 17, 2012 04:16 PM (0tkqC)
Posted by: soothsayer at July 17, 2012 04:16 PM (9Q7Nu)
Posted by: toby sunshine at July 17, 2012 04:17 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: lorien1973 at July 17, 2012 04:17 PM (0tkqC)
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 17, 2012 04:17 PM (nEUpB)
Had he hit Center Mass and hit critical organs -- even with a .380 -- they would have run for a bit, but not for very long.
Posted by: Naqamel at July 17, 2012 04:17 PM (UMwMT)
I had the same reaction as Ace did to the un-Hollywoodness of the whole scene.
Posted by: Waterhouse at July 17, 2012 04:18 PM (bFrcG)
Posted by: Chris R at July 17, 2012 04:18 PM (v362Z)
Posted by: joncelli, heartless Con and all around unpleasant guy at July 17, 2012 04:18 PM (RD7QR)
Posted by: JEM at July 17, 2012 04:18 PM (o+SC1)
Posted by: © Sponge at July 17, 2012 04:18 PM (UK9cE)
Posted by: soothsayer at July 17, 2012 04:18 PM (9Q7Nu)
Posted by: t-bird at July 17, 2012 04:19 PM (FcR7P)
They appear uninjured. Just sayin'. I know guns don't really blow people off their feet as in Hollywood movies
This is why you want to shoot thugs with a 12 ga.
It just makes for better footage.
Posted by: garrett at July 17, 2012 04:19 PM (DwGXn)
Posted by: JEM at July 17, 2012 04:19 PM (o+SC1)
A .380 is a relatively low-powered cartridge, and without good aim and multiple hits it will certainly not be a great stopper. But this guy had balls and was willing to go toe-to-toe with two bad guys, and that makes up for a sub-optimal weapon.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 17, 2012 04:19 PM (nEUpB)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 17, 2012 04:19 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at July 17, 2012 04:19 PM (ZhEoC)
Posted by: USS Diversity at July 17, 2012 04:19 PM (cjTjM)
Posted by: UGAdawg at July 17, 2012 04:20 PM (osx1V)
he shoulda stayed in his chair and just rolled after them, shooting them while still sitting down
Posted by: soothsayer at July 17, 2012 04:20 PM (9Q7Nu)
Posted by: Ben at July 17, 2012 04:20 PM (C2Y4l)
Posted by: Anna Breslaw at July 17, 2012 04:20 PM (UuLBC)
Still, in that video, good work, citizen.
Posted by: Surellin at July 17, 2012 04:20 PM (DWuhs)
Here, you see why.
Posted by: Jeff Weimer at July 17, 2012 04:20 PM (+WgEk)
But, yeah
I carry .45acp or not at all.
Thou shalt not carry a sidearm whose caliber doth not begin with the holy number of 4.
Posted by: navybrat at July 17, 2012 04:20 PM (+2lbb)
Posted by: Roscoe P. Coltrane at July 17, 2012 04:20 PM (UK9cE)
Posted by: supercore23 at July 17, 2012 04:20 PM (bwV72)
Shit, looks like I was in late on the .380 description.
If you want to knock someone down you probably need .40 cal and above.
Posted by: Ben at July 17, 2012 04:21 PM (C2Y4l)
Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2012 04:21 PM (sbV1u)
Posted by: angler at July 17, 2012 04:21 PM (SwjAj)
They say the injuries weren't life-threatening, which means they were probably grazes, or extremity shots. With the thugs already pumped with adrenaline (not an unreasonable assumption) it's not terribly surprising that it wouldn't "slow them down."
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 17, 2012 04:21 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: t-bird at July 17, 2012 04:21 PM (FcR7P)
Posted by: Dr Spank at July 17, 2012 04:21 PM (bb5Xq)
Posted by: Adam Smith's Invisible Pimp Hand at July 17, 2012 04:22 PM (ZhEoC)
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at July 17, 2012 04:22 PM (ZKzrr)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 17, 2012 04:22 PM (rXGCl)
Don't get me wrong, I sincerely hope he beats the rap, but I'm actually surprised to see the article indicate that charges are "unlikely."
Posted by: DBinSD at July 17, 2012 04:22 PM (m8HGH)
>>>What in the hell were you hoping to steal in an internet cafe? Pirated software?
Internet money
Posted by: Ben at July 17, 2012 04:23 PM (C2Y4l)
Posted by: Ben at July 17, 2012 04:23 PM (C2Y4l)
There's a huge difference between a .38 and a .380. A .38 has a much larger powder charge and is more effective.
Posted by: Grim at July 17, 2012 04:23 PM (gyNYk)
Probably a couple hundred bucks in the register along with people's wallets & watches.
Posted by: Kaitian at July 17, 2012 04:23 PM (IXArx)
Posted by: Dr Spank at July 17, 2012 04:23 PM (bb5Xq)
Posted by: Joe Mama at July 17, 2012 04:23 PM (+4zf0)
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 17, 2012 04:24 PM (exvgC)
I would disagree... 9mm hollowpoint / federal hydra-shok / hornady critical defense round is going to seriously mess somebody up.
Plus, .45 is not the easiest thing to conceal, and Ruger has a sweet concealable LC9 (I have one. Love it.)
Posted by: Naqamel at July 17, 2012 04:24 PM (UMwMT)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 17, 2012 04:24 PM (rXGCl)
Um.....two robbers....wearing hoodies......and this is in Florida.
Has this Grandpa been accused of being 'RACIST'...yet?
Posted by: wheatie at July 17, 2012 04:24 PM (MbB0O)
Cordially...
Posted by: Rick at July 17, 2012 04:25 PM (Gfgj6)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 17, 2012 04:25 PM (8y9MW)
If you're going to commit to it, you shoot to end the threat. If he had not kept firing that peashooter one of those vermin may have decided it was worth a return visit.
Posted by: Soap MacTavish at July 17, 2012 04:25 PM (vbh31)
.45 ACP is the only way to go.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at July 17, 2012 04:25 PM (sbV1u)
Posted by: s u n s h i n e at July 17, 2012 04:25 PM (oZfic)
Posted by: Brother Cavil presents at July 17, 2012 04:25 PM (GBXon)
Posted by: © Sponge at July 17, 2012 04:25 PM (UK9cE)
Posted by: Angela Corey at July 17, 2012 04:25 PM (bFrcG)
Posted by: The Dude at July 17, 2012 04:26 PM (tw6Ar)
Or the guy with the gun could have grabbed a hostage.
Posted by: supercore23 at July 17, 2012 04:26 PM (bwV72)
Posted by: navybrat at July 17, 2012 04:26 PM (+2lbb)
That's what I was thinking. I was surprised that (a) they went to rob an internet cafe and (b) there are internet cafes.
Did you also notice that they had a LOT of clothing on. Burkah-level coverage there.
Posted by: AmishDude at July 17, 2012 04:26 PM (T0NGe)
Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at July 17, 2012 04:26 PM (+lsX1)
Posted by: scrubjay at July 17, 2012 04:27 PM (zEPKX)
Has this Grandpa been accused of being 'RACIST'...yet?
Posted by: wheatie at July 17, 2012 04:24 PM (MbB0O)
Not yet, but I've heard he's being described as a "white-hispanic older man who used to run a neighborhood watch program."
Posted by: © Sponge at July 17, 2012 04:27 PM (UK9cE)
Don't get me wrong, I sincerely hope he beats the rap, but I'm actually surprised to see the article indicate that charges are "unlikely."
The shooter is white.
Those guys he shot were wearing hoodies.
This is a Hate Crime.
We're on it.
Posted by: Eric Holder at July 17, 2012 04:27 PM (DwGXn)
Posted by: Dr Spank at July 17, 2012 04:27 PM (bb5Xq)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 17, 2012 04:27 PM (FEqS6)
The story indicates there was some sort of lottery online game you could play there. Also the one with the bat was apparently looking to smash all the computers with the bat. Probably for Trayvon or something.
Posted by: Ian S. at July 17, 2012 04:27 PM (tqwMN)
Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at July 17, 2012 04:27 PM (GvYeG)
Posted by: tasker at July 17, 2012 04:27 PM (r2PLg)
Posted by: Barky O'Dogeater at July 17, 2012 04:27 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: soothsayer at July 17, 2012 04:28 PM (9Q7Nu)
Posted by: Vashta Nerada at July 17, 2012 04:28 PM (Pixxe)
Posted by: General Zod at July 17, 2012 04:28 PM (2+bRt)
Man, I'da beat that old cracka's ass yo.
Sheeit, you fell down. Look at you, all embarrassed and shit.
Posted by: Internet Cafe Robbers in the ambulance at July 17, 2012 04:28 PM (cjTjM)
Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at July 17, 2012 04:28 PM (+lsX1)
From the article I read, Internet Cafes in FL tend to be high-cash enterprises. They're often essentially slot-machine game rooms by another name.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 17, 2012 04:28 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: Soap MacTavish at July 17, 2012 04:29 PM (vbh31)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at July 17, 2012 04:29 PM (GO2/t)
I'll likely never own a 9mm for the simple fact that when the shit hits
the fan, if you're not well stocked, that's the first bullet that FLIES
off the shelf and you can't get em no mo......
Posted by: © Sponge at July 17, 2012 04:25 PM (UK9cE)
It's also the round that will be carried by the UN "Peacekeepers" that will be called in to restore order.
Why shop when you can have it delivered?Just sayin'.
Posted by: Joe Mama at July 17, 2012 04:29 PM (+4zf0)
---
Also not a lawyer, but it seems to me that the citizen was securing the building. He pursued the perps far enough to make sure that they were not going to regroup at the store entrance, but he did not pursue them onto the street (although it does look like he fired off one or two rounds toward them). That might not have been advisable in terms of possibly hitting something unintended (hard to say without seeing who/what was outside the doorway), but it doesn't seem excessive. To me it looks like his intent is to secure the building.
Posted by: Y-not at July 17, 2012 04:29 PM (5H6zj)
Posted by: Countrysquire at July 17, 2012 04:29 PM (1hLHC)
what do "soft point" rounds do? maybe he was using them
Increased power transfer at impact.
Solids just tear through shit without expanding.
Posted by: garrett at July 17, 2012 04:29 PM (DwGXn)
That's why I have a.22, .38, a .380, a 9mm,and a .45. Yeah, I'm missing a .40 and a .357, but funds are limited.
Posted by: Grim at July 17, 2012 04:30 PM (gyNYk)
Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at July 17, 2012 04:30 PM (GvYeG)
Posted by: Gawker at July 17, 2012 04:30 PM (SwjAj)
I heard he and his family sat around talking about how they only liked armed robbers who acted white.
Posted by: Wodeshed at July 17, 2012 04:30 PM (UuLBC)
Worth your while; it's a good compromise between stopping power and magazine capacity. The Smith Wesson MP holds 15 rounds of .40 caliber goodness, and it shoots like a dream.
Posted by: UGAdawg at July 17, 2012 04:30 PM (osx1V)
Posted by: soothsayer at July 17, 2012 04:30 PM (9Q7Nu)
Posted by: Tami at July 17, 2012 04:31 PM (X6akg)
Puts 'em down. Keeps 'em down.
Posted by: Mark Pgast at July 17, 2012 04:31 PM (Xv7f/)
pistol. During the pacification of the Philippines, the .38 wasn't
dropping dudes. We wanted a bullet to put a man DOWN with one
shot.***************************************************
There's a huge difference between a .38 and a .380. A .38 has a much larger powder charge and is more effective.
.380 is a cut down 9mm, also known as 9mm Kurz
Posted by: Country Singer at July 17, 2012 04:31 PM (OAwQ+)
Posted by: Joe Mama at July 17, 2012 04:29 PM (+4zf0)
Like there's any inventory left online either. Been there, done that. Remember when they took the super majority and everyone was worried Pelosi was going to take our guns? Online, sporting goods, specialty stores.....backorders for 9mm bullets for months.
Posted by: © Sponge at July 17, 2012 04:31 PM (UK9cE)
Posted by: soothsayer at July 17, 2012 04:31 PM (9Q7Nu)
To paraphrase Insty, the best gun in any situation is the one you have on your person.
Posted by: Ian S. at July 17, 2012 04:32 PM (tqwMN)
Posted by: Highsmith at July 17, 2012 04:32 PM (uwaMU)
Posted by: Beefy Meatball at July 17, 2012 04:32 PM (yn6XZ)
Can't wait.
Posted by: Truman North at July 17, 2012 04:32 PM (I2LwF)
I have a full-size H and K in .40 cal. SW.
I love it. LOVE IT!
Soft recoil, accurate, holds lots of rounds (for the zombie double-taps), is easy to clean, and has never jammed. The double-action trigger pull is manageable, and the single action is crisp.
The ballistics of the round are excellent, and the alternative (10mm) is a much heavier pistol and a hotter load that isn't nearly as much fun to shoot.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 17, 2012 04:32 PM (nEUpB)
Posted by: McBain at July 17, 2012 04:32 PM (vDl/w)
You can see the perps fleeing past a row of them. It was probably supposed to be a literal smash-and-grab, up until $#!+ Got Real...
Posted by: Brother Cavil presents at July 17, 2012 04:32 PM (GBXon)
Florida? White guy?
I think we all know the story here. The innocent teen on the left was pointing his skittles in the direction of the patrons to inform them that he had delicious, tasty, snacks for them.
The second innocent teen was merely smashing a poisonous snake that had climbed onto the computer screen and was threatening a poor innocent grandmother.
Clearly this was a racist white-white guy that hates valorous, Skittle distributing innocent teenagers.
Posted by: MJ at July 17, 2012 04:32 PM (TR60b)
Posted by: Orkin at July 17, 2012 04:32 PM (Xv7f/)
Posted by: Two Hoodies at July 17, 2012 04:33 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at July 17, 2012 04:33 PM (jucos)
This is why we need my Death Panels.
All these old geezers with guns, they are a danger to my young followers.
Just wait.
After the election, I can be more flexible in wiping out all these old people.
Posted by: Emperor Barky the 1st at July 17, 2012 04:33 PM (MbB0O)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 17, 2012 04:33 PM (1Jaio)
I mean really? Less than 1000 ft per sec? You could see that sucker in flight.
That will only make an impact (hehe) if you use an expanding round. Regular FMJs aren't going to get the job done. If you like the .380 get a 38 Super next time. Better yet a .45 ACP
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 17, 2012 04:34 PM (0q2P7)
As long as they had their weapons they were still a threat. He couldn't know if they wouldn't suddenly turn around and rush back in for a second attempt.
Posted by: scrubjay at July 17, 2012 04:34 PM (zEPKX)
One person hit in the arm might crumple from shock, another might get mad, another might run like the wind.
Probably for the best that "run like the wind" was the case here.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 17, 2012 04:34 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: The Jackson not in rehab at July 17, 2012 04:34 PM (Wa+Fw)
Posted by: Barry Syrup at July 17, 2012 04:34 PM (yn6XZ)
Posted by: Wodeshed at July 17, 2012 04:35 PM (UuLBC)
No such thing as an ugly win in a gunfight.
@91,
Not necessarily. "Softpoint" only speaks to the construction of the projectile, not its speed or energy. Also, an all-lead round would be heavier than a fully jacketed hollowpoint or a "ball" round.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 17, 2012 04:35 PM (FEqS6)
Posted by: Cicero at July 17, 2012 04:35 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: Warden at July 17, 2012 04:35 PM (HzhBE)
Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at July 17, 2012 04:35 PM (GvYeG)
Posted by: Highsmith at July 17, 2012 04:35 PM (uwaMU)
there, done that. Remember when they took the super majority and
everyone was worried Pelosi was going to take our guns? Online, sporting
goods, specialty stores.....backorders for 9mm bullets for months.
Posted by: © Sponge at July 17, 2012 04:31 PM (UK9cE)
You missed the point. Use the same ammo types as your opponents.
That will be 9mm .40 cal and 5.56mm.
Posted by: Joe Mama at July 17, 2012 04:35 PM (+4zf0)
Posted by: breaking bad's writers at July 17, 2012 04:35 PM (vDl/w)
Posted by: BuckIV at July 17, 2012 04:36 PM (AtjNL)
Posted by: polynikes at July 17, 2012 04:37 PM (8xOfO)
Posted by: Cicero at July 17, 2012 04:37 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 17, 2012 04:37 PM (1Jaio)
why do you see flames out of the barrel with .357's?
Posted by: soothsayer at July 17, 2012 04:37 PM (9Q7Nu)
Posted by: Perforated Hoodie Steeplechaser at July 17, 2012 04:38 PM (DwGXn)
Posted by: Liberal Logic at July 17, 2012 04:38 PM (TR60b)
which is way cool, btw
Posted by: soothsayer at July 17, 2012 04:38 PM (9Q7Nu)
Posted by: Truck Monkey at July 17, 2012 04:38 PM (jucos)
Posted by: Mary Beth at July 17, 2012 04:38 PM (pABb1)
Posted by: Soona at July 17, 2012 04:38 PM (gaYoA)
Ah yes, another one of my white hair geezer friends ventilates a punk, but misses the crucial shot. Hitting them in the balls to prevent future breeding would have been a great ending.
Posted by: Doctor Fish at July 17, 2012 04:38 PM (hvwLi)
Dawkins has bonded out of jail, but Henderson remains in the Marion County Jail.
State legislators failed again this year to ban strip mall casinos, which many in law enforcement say attract such robberies.
http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/strip-mall-
casino-patron-shoots-would-be-robbers/nPtjd/
Posted by: tasker at July 17, 2012 04:38 PM (r2PLg)
And he'd probably be wondering why brass keeps hitting him in the face...
Posted by: Naqamel at July 17, 2012 04:39 PM (UMwMT)
Jeez-o-fucking-pete. At this rate we'll never get that big contract for the 2016 Olympics.
Posted by: Hoodies Local 138 at July 17, 2012 04:39 PM (TR60b)
Posted by: Danny Vermin at July 17, 2012 04:39 PM (DwGXn)
The guideline is: you can use potentially lethal force only to stop an immediate, otherwise unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm to the innocent. Shooting fleeing miscreants as they flee doesn't meet this standard.
Even if the DA doesn't go after him, the miscreants could potentially file civil suit against him and take everything he owns.
So worst case, he loses everything he owns in a civil lawsuit, and goes to prison. Middle case, he wins the civil suit and the criminal suit, but has to pay huge lawyer fees. Best case, no legal proceedings. I wouldn't want to roll those dice.
If he yelled "Drop that weapon!" and the miscreant did not drop the weapon, he was legally on solid ground to start shooting the miscreant; and he deserves the thanks of all the people in the cafe. But he should have stopped shooting once the miscreants were fleeing.
Posted by: mr_jack at July 17, 2012 04:39 PM (TMG3G)
Posted by: tasker at July 17, 2012 04:39 PM (r2PLg)
Posted by: Robert at July 17, 2012 04:39 PM (7nwJ6)
At least you will not be killed for lack of shooting back.
Posted by: toby928© at July 17, 2012 04:39 PM (QupBk)
Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at July 17, 2012 04:39 PM (+lsX1)
9mm Kurz is a .380
Posted by: UGAdawg at July 17, 2012 04:40 PM (osx1V)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at July 17, 2012 04:40 PM (GO2/t)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 17, 2012 04:40 PM (1Jaio)
why do you see flames out of the barrel with .357's?<<<
They use FM technology in the barrel forging.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 17, 2012 04:40 PM (FEqS6)
Amazing video. In the future with the ability to store videos digitally becoming almost infinite, will their be surveillance cameras everywhere? And how will that change law enforcement? Or, for that matter, how we live in general?
Posted by: The Regular Guy at July 17, 2012 04:40 PM (qHCyt)
oh he's gonna get sued alright
and the owner of the cafe is gonna get sued
also: the owner of the property
Posted by: soothsayer at July 17, 2012 04:40 PM (9Q7Nu)
Posted by: Wodeshed at July 17, 2012 04:40 PM (UuLBC)
Posted by: Joe Nambla at July 17, 2012 04:41 PM (yn6XZ)
He gets a jury pool of liberals --he'll probably get off.
Posted by: tasker at July 17, 2012 04:41 PM (r2PLg)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 17, 2012 04:41 PM (1Jaio)
Posted by: Country Singer at July 17, 2012 04:31 PM (OAwQ+)Not exactly. You're right, .380 auto is known as 9mm Kurz in Europe, but it's not really a cut down 9mm in the same sense that the .357 Magnum is basically a lengthened .38 Special. 9mm uses a tapered cartridge and .380 uses a straight sided cartridge. As a result, different loading dies are required, whereas the same dies can be used for .38 and .357, with adjustments for length. .380 and 9mm do use the same diameter bullet (0.355").
.380 is considerably lower in velocity and energy compared to 9mm, but any gun in your pocket is better than the one you left at home because it's too big to carry.
Posted by: Iowa Bob at July 17, 2012 04:41 PM (RJ+Yj)
Most are hot loads, and you can also see some burning gases in every revolver, regardless of the caliber. Well, maybe not .22, but most....
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 17, 2012 04:41 PM (nEUpB)
Posted by: Cricket at July 17, 2012 04:41 PM (DrC22)
Posted by: Clutch Cargo at July 17, 2012 04:41 PM (Qxdfp)
Posted by: soothsayer at July 17, 2012 04:41 PM (9Q7Nu)
Posted by: Wolfus Aurelius at July 17, 2012 04:41 PM (exvgC)
>>>You missed the point. Use the same ammo types as your opponents.
That will be 9mm .40 cal and 5.56mm.
Right loot the bodies. How could I forget that critical part of the only game walkthrough you'll ever need?
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/058045.php
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 17, 2012 04:42 PM (0q2P7)
Even if the DA doesn't go after him, the miscreants could potentially file civil suit against him and take everything he owns.
This.
Posted by: Bernhard Goetz at July 17, 2012 04:42 PM (DwGXn)
How about the flashmob in Jacksonville, Angela FlopSweat's home turf?
Cops can't arrest them or there will be a riot.
Victims can't shoot them or they will be arrested.
The cops can't arrest them later because snitches get stitches.
This is all -except for the snitch crap, post 2008.
Posted by: Redd at July 17, 2012 04:42 PM (suLy7)
---
As someone pointed out upthread, they did not drop their weapons.
They entered building, pulled their weapons during attempted robbery, refused to drop them, fled while still holding weapons. Two against one. Old man was securing the building.
I don't think he has to wait for them to turn back towards him with their drawn, loaded weapons.
Posted by: Y-not at July 17, 2012 04:42 PM (5H6zj)
As has been pointed out, glancing hits with any handgun chambering won't stop an aggressor (though they can certainly persuade them to reconsider their course of action, as seen here.) The CHL holder was well served bythe capacity and form factor of.380.
Posted by: Dorian Taupe at July 17, 2012 04:42 PM (IfM3l)
Bring a gun.
Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice. Ammo is cheap. Life is expensive.
Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.
If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough nor using cover correctly.
In ten years nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They will only remember who lived.
If you are not shooting, you should be communicating, reloading, and running.
Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more
dependent on "pucker factor" than the inherent accuracy of the gun.
Use a gun that works EVERY TIME. "All skill is in vain when an Angel ****es in the flintlock of your musket."
Someday someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it because it is empty.
Always cheat; always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.
Have a plan.
Have a back-up plan, because the first one won't work.
Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.
Don't drop your guard.
Decide to be aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH.
The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.
Posted by: Wowzer at July 17, 2012 04:42 PM (Xv7f/)
Angela Corey is preparing the indictment on the man, and has already leaked to the press that the gun was loaded with rounds only harmful to black men and kittens. And puppies.
Posted by: MJ at July 17, 2012 04:42 PM (TR60b)
Posted by: Roy at July 17, 2012 04:42 PM (VndSC)
Posted by: Gawker at July 17, 2012 04:30 PM (SwjAj)
Hahahaha!
Posted by: Redd at July 17, 2012 04:43 PM (suLy7)
LOL!
Posted by: Joe Mama at July 17, 2012 04:43 PM (+4zf0)
size/force is overwhelming or it's a major CNS (Central Nervous System)
hit)"
Good point.
.380 is somewhat odd in that it's between 45ACP's blunt kinetic energy delivery and the smaller, faster rounds (9mm, fiveseven) which produce significant hydrostatic shock to the nervous system.
Posted by: Uriah Heep at July 17, 2012 04:43 PM (Wa+Fw)
The 9x18 is slightly hotter. I swapped out the 9x18 barrel on my Mak to .380...the .380 being cheaper and more available. Love my Mak.
Posted by: trainer at July 17, 2012 04:43 PM (IVoJS)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 17, 2012 04:43 PM (05RcU)
See, I don't get this. As long as the perps are still armed, at loose and still effin stick-at-naught armed robbers, the public safety is at risk.
I'd shoot them in the back to protect the people down the street.
Posted by: toby928© at July 17, 2012 04:43 PM (QupBk)
becoming almost infinite, will their be surveillance cameras everywhere?
And how will that change law enforcement? Or, for that matter, how we
live in general?
Go to London. Find out now.
Posted by: Cicero at July 17, 2012 04:43 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: soothsayer at July 17, 2012 04:43 PM (9Q7Nu)
Morons would never even have looked up from the Christina Hendricks pics on screen.
Posted by: Waterhouse at July 17, 2012 04:44 PM (bFrcG)
Samuel Williams, his gun loaded.
Posted by: Dr. Varno at July 17, 2012 04:44 PM (GO2/t)
Posted by: DAve at July 17, 2012 04:44 PM (BoI09)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 17, 2012 04:44 PM (FEqS6)
Ref concealing a .45.
They make some really compact .45 autos.
Ref 9mm. Marginal but with the hottest rounds and the right bullet they're adequate. .45 doesn't need so much help.
The point is for self-defense you want stopping power and those guys were hit and not stopped. The .380 worked because they were afraid of the gun. If they were spoiling for a fight they could have beat the guy to death and THEN ambled off to the hospital.
In that circumstance (they were afraid of the gun) a miserable .25 would have worked.
But a great job by the citizen. Hurrah.
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 17, 2012 04:44 PM (d9tUw)
One elderly man > a capitol full of state legislators.
Posted by: t-bird at July 17, 2012 04:44 PM (FcR7P)
See, I don't get this. As long as the perps are still armed, at loose and still effin stick-at-naught armed robbers, the public safety is at risk.
I'd shoot them in the back to protect the people down the street.
Posted by: toby928© at July 17, 2012 04:43 PM (QupBk)
I thought since obama is in the White House, these are Chicago rules? If you bring a gun to a fight .....
And anyway, fuck em, they started it
Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 17, 2012 04:45 PM (05RcU)
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 17, 2012 04:45 PM (kSaUf)
57 .38, .45...let's split the difference here, someone put me some knowledge regarding .40 (or 10mm). Worth your while or pointless?
Posted by: Brother Cavil presents at July 17, 2012 04:25 PM (GBXon)
The .40 is a short 10mm auto. Think of the 10mm as a "magnum .40 S&W," though it was created first.
There are two types of 10mm auto, the "FBI Load" is the same as a .40 but in a bigger case, the "original" is much more powerful.
The classic saying is "anything will do if you will do," think of the more powerful calibers as exclamation points.
While energy is only part of the equation (will-to-fight and accuracy are much more important), it does give you some idea.
Typical .380 is about 200 ft/lbs at the muzzle, .40 400-500, and 10mm 650-750 (but loads all the way down to 400 are common).
The .40 is a little faster than a .45 but with lighter bullets, so the power level is about the same. The 10mm usually has heavier bullets on average than the .40, but they can be the same - just faster.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 17, 2012 04:45 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: I. Danko at July 17, 2012 04:45 PM (mIoJ0)
Posted by: polynikes at July 17, 2012 04:45 PM (8xOfO)
woman just stands there in the middle of a gunfight with her hands over
her ears?
I don't get your point.
Posted by: An Ostrich at July 17, 2012 04:45 PM (QKKT0)
Posted by: model_1066 at July 17, 2012 04:46 PM (YbQJm)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 17, 2012 04:47 PM (05RcU)
Posted by: robtr at July 17, 2012 04:47 PM (MtwBb)
Just cuz they're hit don't mean they drop, or even stop being a problem. They're no longer a problem when they're no longer moving.
Posted by: @PurpAv at July 17, 2012 04:47 PM (69eVP)
Posted by: beancounter at July 17, 2012 04:47 PM (p18em)
Posted by: Anna Breslaw at July 17, 2012 04:47 PM (QKKT0)
No one does. I don't know that you have the wherewithal to stop shooting though. And any reasonable jury will likely have a hard time being convinced otherwise. If the DA rolls the dice on this one, I halfway suspect the same results that were offered up for the dad that beat the man molesting his daughter to death. Clearly guilty of Man II, possibly Man I or even Murder II, the grand jury, eh, saw insufficient evidence to sustain the charge.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 17, 2012 04:48 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: kallisto at July 17, 2012 04:48 PM (jm/9g)
Adrenaline can produce amazing results when a bad-ass 71 year old is on your tail.
Posted by: Cheri at July 17, 2012 04:48 PM (G+Wff)
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 17, 2012 04:42 PM (0q2P7)
The original Ace was a funny motherfucker.
Posted by: garrett at July 17, 2012 04:48 PM (DwGXn)
Sorry. The flames you see are the burning gunpowder escaping. On barrels that are ported (have several holes drilled near the end of the barrel) the flash is even more impressive.
Shorter barrels combined with more propellant tend to produce bigger flashes.
The M-16 series of rifles have "flash hider" devices for the purpose of diffusing and lessening the muzzle flash, both to conceal the shooter and preserve his eyesight.
So, there you go.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 17, 2012 04:48 PM (FEqS6)
ref visible flame from .357s
Lot of .357s have short-barrels. .357 cartridges have a LOT* of powder. Too much for it all to burn before escaping a short barrel.
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 17, 2012 04:48 PM (d9tUw)
The .380 he shoots them with doesn't really seem to slow them down at
all. They appear uninjured. Just sayin'. I know guns don't really
blow people off their feet as in Hollywood movies, but these non-lethal
hits just don't seem to do anything to the crooks.
Ace the .380 is a very weak cartridge and if you do not hit something vital it will not slow therm down. Which is why I use a .45 acp and a .357 magnum as my choice of handguns.
Posted by: Vic at July 17, 2012 04:49 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: @PurpAv at July 17, 2012 04:49 PM (69eVP)
Oh, come on! She's elderly and scared.
Posted by: Redd at July 17, 2012 04:49 PM (suLy7)
Posted by: t-bird at July 17, 2012 04:50 PM (FcR7P)
Posted by: Bernhard Goetz at July 17, 2012 04:42 PM (DwGXn)
--------------------------------------------------
That's why I love living in the great state of OK. If it's a good shoot, no civil charges can be brought.
Posted by: Soona at July 17, 2012 04:50 PM (gaYoA)
Posted by: Y-not at July 17, 2012 04:50 PM (5H6zj)
I've shot 44mag and a 50AE they both shoot flames like a flamethrower.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 17, 2012 04:50 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Wodeshed at July 17, 2012 04:35 PM (UuLBC)
That's kind of been answered, but the Makarov bullet is also a different diameter than the 9mm family (9mmx19, 9mmx21, 9mmx23, .380, 9mm Largo, and ON and ON). .363 instead of .355.
I thought it was unique to .357's. Or, at least, more common.
Posted by: soothsayer at July 17, 2012 04:43 PM (9Q7Nu)
It all depends on barrel length and type of powder.
They make special "low-flash" loads for night shooting or the military (N340 powder is good for that), and they use the "flashiest" powders for movie guns (like Blue Dot powder).
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 17, 2012 04:50 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: Brass at July 17, 2012 04:50 PM (n1mRi)
Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at July 17, 2012 04:51 PM (DGIjM)
Both men, later identified as Davis G. Dawkins and Duwayne Henderson, both 19, were shot by Williams and were taken to Shands Hospital in Gainesville. Dawkins had a superficial wound in his left arm. Henderson was shot in his left buttock and right hip.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 17, 2012 04:51 PM (kdS6q)
And, of course, it is a Russian inwention.
Posted by: ensign pavel chekov at July 17, 2012 04:51 PM (vDl/w)
Posted by: Skittles dudes at July 17, 2012 04:51 PM (vPa8F)
Posted by: Vic at July 17, 2012 04:52 PM (YdQQY)
ref .40 and 10mm. 10mm developed first. FBI agents were having a hard time at the gun range (too much kick) so the more mellow .40 was developed and worked out pretty well.
The .40 is better than the 9mm and more manageable than the 10mm.
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 17, 2012 04:52 PM (d9tUw)
And I love how at the very end, gramps looks down at his gun like, "yeah, that worked."
Posted by: Tami at July 17, 2012 04:53 PM (X6akg)
Posted by: Things that make you go wtf? at July 17, 2012 04:53 PM (r2PLg)
Posted by: model_1066 at July 17, 2012 04:46 PM (YbQJm)
Dude, your nickname is the model number of a S&W 10mm.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 17, 2012 04:53 PM (bxiXv)
idiot fat woman just stands there in the middle of a gunfight with her hands over her ears?
Oh, come on! She's elderly and scared.
But, thanks to 'Ooops I Crapped My Pants' I was able to get on with my day without having to change my pants!
Posted by: Fat Old Lady at July 17, 2012 04:53 PM (DwGXn)
192OT - Neil Cavuto showing Kate Upton videos on FNC right now.
The topic of 'losing weight' is always of interest to Cavuto....because so many liberals call him 'fat' names.
Cavuto also is known to show gratuitous footage of Victoria's Secret models....all in the interest of it being a 'business story', of course.
So this story about Kate Upton being accused of being 'fat'....is a natural for Cavuto to run with.
Posted by: Emperor Barky the 1st at July 17, 2012 04:54 PM (MbB0O)
Posted by: Brother Cavil presents at July 17, 2012 04:25 PM (GBXon)"
The .40 is an indirect result of the 1986 FBI Miami shootout, where two murderous, batshit crazy bank robbers, William Russell Matix and Michael Lee Platt, shot it out at close quarters with eight agents of the FBI unit that had been investigating the bank robberies. The FBI was armed with one shotgun, along with an assortment of 9 mm and .38 Special ammo loaded into .357 Magnum handguns. Both Matix and Platt took multiple hits from buckshot, 9 mm and .38 (6 and 12 times, respectively), but only went down after killing two of the agents and wounding all but one of the survivors. (Platt did most of the damage with a Ruger mini-14 firing the .223 cartridge.) The gunfight ended when Agent Edmundo Moreles, one of the few agents still functional and badly wounded himself, charged the vehicle from which Platt and Matix were attempting to make a getaway and blasted them at arms-length with multiple .38 Special rounds to the head.
After conducting an in-depth of just about every aspect of the shootout, the feds went on a serious hunt for a powerful, effective man-stopper that would meet the real-world requirements they established. For a while, the FBI went with the 10 mm, but the recoil made target reacquisition problematic. The .40 SW was developed as a result and is essentially a cut-down version of the 10 mm, and provides a nice middle way between the 9mm and the .45 ACP.
I have a CCW license, and carry an old commie9 x 18 Makarov, myself. It conceals well, fits my hand perfectly and I seemingly can't miss what I'm shooting at on the range, whether shooting one-handed or two-handed Weaver, Chapman,or modified isocoles. My one big prerequisite for a carry weapon is absolute reliability, and this little pistol is--hands-down--the most reliable I've ever owned. 2000 rounds fired without malfunction so far.
Posted by: troyriser at July 17, 2012 04:54 PM (vtiE6)
Posted by: Ian S. at July 17, 2012 04:54 PM (tqwMN)
Florida, there's alligators in the drainage ditch, We ain't putting our hands up.
Posted by: DaveA at July 17, 2012 04:54 PM (yVsIQ)
Posted by: wheatie at July 17, 2012 04:54 PM (MbB0O)
Posted by: Minuteman at July 17, 2012 04:54 PM (acEq7)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 17, 2012 04:55 PM (05RcU)
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 17, 2012 04:52 PM (d9tUw)
People should try shooting guns if they have a chance - as in each person needs to get a feel for what their limits are.
High recoil sensitivity doesn't mean you're a wimp, it just means that's not the best tool for you.
The S&W 10mms they started with tend to exacerbate recoil anyway, the Glock 10mm is not bad at all.
BUT if you have small hands (short fingers), the .40 or even 9mm is much better.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 17, 2012 04:56 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at July 17, 2012 04:56 PM (GvYeG)
---------------------------------------------------
Skittles?
Posted by: Soona at July 17, 2012 04:56 PM (gaYoA)
Posted by: Senior Callahan at July 17, 2012 04:56 PM (AWmfW)
Posted by: Geezer with CCW at July 17, 2012 04:56 PM (acEq7)
A double Metamucil for the man with the big balls!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at July 17, 2012 04:56 PM (nEUpB)
Posted by: Sticky Wicket at July 17, 2012 04:57 PM (L7hol)
215....And I love how at the very end, gramps looks down at his gun like, "yeah, that worked."
Heh. ....Yeah, I noticed that too.
Posted by: wheatie at July 17, 2012 04:57 PM (MbB0O)
Posted by: Soona at July 17, 2012 04:56 PM (gaYoA)
Oh, yeah or maybe Arizona watermelon tea.
Posted by: Tami at July 17, 2012 04:57 PM (X6akg)
Posted by: richard dawkins at July 17, 2012 04:57 PM (vDl/w)
I now have a 380 pocket in the collection. Front pocket carry. Problem solved.
Posted by: fixerupper at July 17, 2012 04:57 PM (C8hzL)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 17, 2012 04:57 PM (1Jaio)
Not long afterward, deputies got a call about two men at a Marion Oaks residence who were telling people there that they had been shot while at Scott Carrigan Baseball Park on Southeast 17th Street in Ocala. Police officers went to the field but found no evidence of a shooting there.
The two men, later identified as Davis G. Dawkins, 19, and Duwayne Henderson, 19, were transported - one by helicopter - to Shands at the University of Florida in Gainesville.
Coincidence!
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 17, 2012 04:57 PM (kdS6q)
Posted by: Vic at July 17, 2012 04:57 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: Dante at July 17, 2012 04:58 PM (c17z0)
Posted by: fluffy at July 17, 2012 04:58 PM (z9HTb)
I like the way this one ended -
Cavuto to Fitness Chick: Thank you for keeping abreast of it.
Fitness Chick to Cavuto: (Pointing to her eyes) Keeping an eye on it.
Posted by: beancounter at July 17, 2012 04:58 PM (p18em)
Posted by: Buffalobob at July 17, 2012 04:58 PM (AcIgr)
Posted by: DAve at July 17, 2012 04:59 PM (BoI09)
But, yeah
I carry .45acp or not at all.
Thou shalt not carry a sidearm whose caliber doth not begin with the holy number of 4.
Show me somebody who follows that rule, and I'll show you someone who leaves his gun at home on occasion because it's to heavy and bulky.
With a little .380 you can comfortably carry while wearing anything less revealing than Speedos. I like my little Kahr .45, but when it's 90+ degrees out and I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt, it's the .380 that goes with me.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 17, 2012 04:59 PM (SY2Kh)
Well when the bruises show up. They'll be wondering how they got them.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 17, 2012 04:59 PM (0q2P7)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 17, 2012 04:59 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 17, 2012 04:59 PM (1Jaio)
Posted by: polynikes at July 17, 2012 05:00 PM (pyh5u)
Posted by: kallisto at July 17, 2012 05:00 PM (jm/9g)
Posted by: Mel Gibson at July 17, 2012 05:00 PM (DGIjM)
Posted by: Soona at July 17, 2012 05:01 PM (gaYoA)
Posted by: Dr. Varno at July 17, 2012 05:01 PM (GO2/t)
when it comes to gun control (hey, I grew up close to DC, what can I
say?), but if I were on that jury, I would not find that citizen guilty
of a damned thing. I can't imagine a jury finding him guilty of
anything.
Posted by: Y-not at July 17, 2012 04:50 PM (5H6zj)
twenty dollar fine for not using the entire clip, suspended.
Posted by: Oldcat at July 17, 2012 05:01 PM (z1N6a)
Years ago I was trying to get my hands on a Seecamp .32
I gave up. Now I see them all over the internent for sale.
Posted by: soothsayer at July 17, 2012 05:01 PM (9Q7Nu)
Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at July 17, 2012 05:01 PM (GvYeG)
Posted by: richard dawkins at July 17, 2012 05:02 PM (vDl/w)
During the pacification of the Philippines, the .38 wasn't dropping
dudes. We wanted a bullet to put a man DOWN with one shot.
===============
I've been told the legend there is that the Philippenos would wrap their testicles tightly in wet leather so by the time they were in battle all other pain was dulled.
AKA--Texas AM homers.
Posted by: RoyalOil at July 17, 2012 05:02 PM (kSaUf)
I don't care if the old guy is shooting .22 shorts at me, I'll be running like a striped ass ape.
Posted by: Jinx the Cat at July 17, 2012 05:02 PM (yJbGR)
If you read the books, flemming consistently claims (wrongly) that it's a real man-stopper. I just read Man with the Golden Gun, and Scaramanga's all like "Oooh, real man-stopper!" when Bond says he carries a walther, and no, he's not sarcastic. I know he's not sarcastic because Flemming has other people say the same thing in other books.
I mean, it's an upgrade from his original .25 beretta (bearcat, maybe?), which got labled a "ladies' gun" by the Armorer, but man, does Flemming think it's .357 or somethin'.
Posted by: ace at July 17, 2012 05:02 PM (115KO)
Posted by: mare at July 17, 2012 05:02 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at July 17, 2012 05:02 PM (GvYeG)
Posted by: model_1066 at July 17, 2012 05:02 PM (YbQJm)
Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 17, 2012 05:03 PM (05RcU)
Posted by: t-bird at July 17, 2012 05:03 PM (FcR7P)
The man had the right to eliminate the threat completely to himself and others. As long as he could still see those robbers they were still a threat. He had no way of knowing what others weapons (guns) they carried or backup they had outside.
We already know they came to do harm just by brandishing the weapons. They started it. He finished it and had the right to do so, even if he had walked up to a robber lying on the sidewalk outside the place squirming away and plugged him in the pumpkin. If the robber could still move a finger, he is still a threat.
This was a gunfight, not tiddlywinks, Jack.
Posted by: Wyatt at July 17, 2012 05:03 PM (y9vIG)
Posted by: Senior Callahan at July 17, 2012 05:03 PM (AWmfW)
story at 6.
Posted by: MSM headline at July 17, 2012 05:03 PM (DGIjM)
Dawkins had a superficial wound in his left arm, but Henderson was shot in two places: his left buttock and his right hip.
Posted by: Forest Gimp at July 17, 2012 05:04 PM (0It32)
242, 219. Yea, he's done a couple other Kate Upton segments as well.
I like the way this one ended -
Cavuto to Fitness Chick: Thank you for keeping abreast of it.
Fitness Chick to Cavuto: (Pointing to her eyes) Keeping an eye on it.
Heh, yup.
And Cavuto ended the show by saying that this story will be focused on even more tonite on his show at 8pm, on FBN.
Because "this story has created an internet furor of controversy"....or something.
He must've shown about 50 different shots of Upton during that segment.
Posted by: wheatie at July 17, 2012 05:04 PM (MbB0O)
Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at July 17, 2012 05:02 PM (GvYeG)
need to trigger the flight reflex
Posted by: Oldcat at July 17, 2012 05:04 PM (z1N6a)
Posted by: Hank Scorpio at July 17, 2012 05:04 PM (vDl/w)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 17, 2012 05:04 PM (1Jaio)
Posted by: tcn at July 17, 2012 05:05 PM (eFcVx)
Posted by: The Anti -Obama at July 17, 2012 05:05 PM (acEq7)
Yes.... and see! More Racist behaviour by the White Man.... as he shoots at our poor Hoods!
(Heard a dolt on Fox a couple days ago saying that being worried about somene in a Hood, is Racist, even when RACE is not an issue.. needless to say she made my head hurt....)
Posted by: Romeo13 at July 17, 2012 05:05 PM (lZBBB)
Posted by: Hank Scorpio at July 17, 2012 05:04 PM (vDl/w)
Maybe if you beat them with the butt.
Posted by: Oldcat at July 17, 2012 05:06 PM (z1N6a)
Do we know the ethnicities of the would be robbers ?
I can't tell from the video and the names only tell me what they are not.
Posted by: seamrog at July 17, 2012 05:06 PM (xEyh7)
Posted by: fixerupper at July 17, 2012 05:06 PM (C8hzL)
Samuel Williams steals the show as John McClain's dad in "Die Hard...of Hearing"
Posted by: t-bird at July 17, 2012 05:06 PM (FcR7P)
Didn't read the thread, so may be someone hasalready pointed ths out.T he .380 is lethal (like any round) if you have correct shot placement. That old dude should not have warned them( never do that) an armed person can turn and fire on you before you squeeze off a shot. He also didn't use proper firing stance or use his sights correctly, an undertrained individual. The gun was small with a short sight radius; which doesn't help accuracy either.
I would nothave stopped them unless they started squeezing, or tried forcing me in to another room. Starting a gun battle in a crowded area is d u m b.
Posted by: laidup at July 17, 2012 05:06 PM (ONLC0)
Posted by: Romeo13 at July 17, 2012 05:05 PM (lZBBB)
And when that "misunderstood" yoot is wearing a hoodie in 100 degree weather......
Posted by: Nevergiveup at July 17, 2012 05:07 PM (05RcU)
Posted by: polynikes at July 17, 2012 05:07 PM (85x54)
The Walther is a pocket pistol, easy to carry in a tux. What brits know about guns would fit in one issue of Guns and Ammo and leave room for ads, and for the small part that they actually historically contributed to firearms it was entirely in large bore rifle rounds.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 17, 2012 05:07 PM (0q2P7)
pistol. During the pacification of the Philippines, the .38 wasn't
dropping dudes. We wanted a bullet to put a man DOWN with one
shot.***************************************************
There's a huge difference between a .38 and a .380. A .38 has a much larger powder charge and is more effective.
No, not really.
The .38 they were using in the Philippines wasn't the more familiar .38 special, but the .38 Smith and Wesson cartridge which was even less powerful than a .380 acp.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 17, 2012 05:07 PM (SY2Kh)
Henderson, 19, were transported - one by helicopter - to Shands at the
University of Florida in Gainesville.
All paid for by their mommies' health insurance, right?
Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at July 17, 2012 05:08 PM (ZKzrr)
I would nothave stopped them unless they started squeezing,
----
Too late.
.... and get the hell out of my foxhole.
Posted by: fixerupper at July 17, 2012 05:08 PM (C8hzL)
Posted by: Don Lemon at July 17, 2012 05:09 PM (DwGXn)
http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/ Duwayne_Henderson_8162102/
Posted by: Sons of O at July 17, 2012 05:09 PM (0It32)
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 17, 2012 05:09 PM (FEqS6)
Posted by: Hank Scorpio at July 17, 2012 05:04 PM (vDl/w)
Maybe if you beat them with the butt.
Posted by: Oldcat at July 17, 2012 05:06 PM (z1N6a)
John Travolta is very interested in hearing more about this
Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 17, 2012 05:09 PM (1Jaio)
I would nothave stopped them unless they started squeezing, or tried forcing me in to another room.
then you'd miss your opportunity to take them down
Starting a gun battle in a crowded area is d u m b.
Better than being rounded up like cattle for the slaughter.
Posted by: soothsayer at July 17, 2012 05:09 PM (9Q7Nu)
Posted by: tcn at July 17, 2012 05:10 PM (eFcVx)
have three children, Tara, Bradley and Jeremy. They reside in Mendham, New Jersey" via wiki
Wow, he's married to the same woman for 29 years, 29 years, that's an accomplishment.
And he was born on long island, grew up in CT and now lives in Jersey.
And he's fought cancer and MS.
Posted by: s u n s h i n e at July 17, 2012 05:10 PM (oZfic)
Posted by: zombie robert adams at July 17, 2012 05:10 PM (vDl/w)
Observations: He was seated at the back facing the door with a good view of the door.
He was able to discreetly get his weapon out without being noticed. Not something he probably could have managed with a 1911 under his shirt.
He made good attempts at proper grip and stance.
I compete in IDPA every week on average. I pray every day to never face such a situation for real but if I do I pray I perform at least as well as that guy.
Posted by: Scott J at July 17, 2012 05:11 PM (RfL9P)
Posted by: garrett at July 17, 2012 05:11 PM (DwGXn)
Posted by: mare at July 17, 2012 05:11 PM (A98Xu)
264They should outlaw hoodies
I hope not!
I love wearing them on blustery, cold days.....and I have about 2 dozen of them, of various styles, colors and thicknesses.
Posted by: wheatie at July 17, 2012 05:11 PM (MbB0O)
Ah, yes, two fine upstanding gentlemen in the community, just there to help old ladies across the street and do volunteer work at the hospital.
Posted by: tcn at July 17, 2012 05:11 PM (eFcVx)
Do you have access to the special slo-mo movie angle of the shooter's trigger finger? That's cool.
Posted by: t-bird at July 17, 2012 05:12 PM (FcR7P)
Something tells me a Kate Upton video is more of a "man-stopper" than a .380, if comments here are to be believed.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 17, 2012 05:12 PM (8y9MW)
Henderson remained in the Marion County Jail late Monday in lieu of a $31,000 bond. Dawkins was released Sunday after posting an $11,000 bond.
Compare/contrast with the Zimmerman bond.
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 17, 2012 05:12 PM (kdS6q)
Posted by: wheatie at July 17, 2012 05:11 PM (MbB0O)
Would you say that you have a plethora of hoodies?
Posted by: el Guapo at July 17, 2012 05:12 PM (DwGXn)
Posted by: Scott J at July 17, 2012 05:11 PM (RfL9P)"
Agreed. I love the way he kept going forward, pressing the fight, not giving them time to think or a chance to react. He was in their loop.
Posted by: troyriser at July 17, 2012 05:13 PM (vtiE6)
He made good attempts at proper grip and stance.
I compete in IDPA every week on average. I pray every day to never face such a situation for real but if I do I pray I perform at least as well as that guy."
Absolutely.
I don't remember the numbers, but policemen hitting moving targets is REALLY low.
Posted by: mare at July 17, 2012 05:13 PM (A98Xu)
Posted by: laidup at July 17, 2012 05:06 PM (ONLC0)
-------------------------------------------------
So please tell us. How many gunfights like this have you been in?
Posted by: Soona at July 17, 2012 05:13 PM (gaYoA)
Posted by: s u n s h i n e at July 17, 2012 05:13 PM (oZfic)
Posted by: Andy at July 17, 2012 05:13 PM (OZPoa)
Kate Upton has almost stopped my obsession with Katy Perry's breast.........almost.
Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at July 17, 2012 05:13 PM (OWjjx)
Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at July 17, 2012 05:14 PM (GvYeG)
Posted by: garrett at July 17, 2012 05:14 PM (DwGXn)
Yea the old .38 was a black powder round. It has an excuse. What was the .380 acp's excuse for only loading a quarter of the case? It sucked so bad that Colt went back, loaded it full of powder and called it the .38 super.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Lite! 98% Anger Free! at July 17, 2012 05:14 PM (0q2P7)
I have enough attention for both of them, and Christina Hendricks.
Just sayin'.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 17, 2012 05:14 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: CAC ATTACK !!! at July 17, 2012 05:14 PM (yn6XZ)
Posted by: Senior Callahan at July 17, 2012 05:15 PM (AWmfW)
$31,000 bond. Dawkins was released Sunday after posting an $11,000 bond.
What? (a) Why so different? (b) Why so low for Dawkins in particular? These are adults who brandished a dangerous weapon and are on video doing so.
Posted by: AmishDude at July 17, 2012 05:15 PM (T0NGe)
Posted by: ErikW at July 17, 2012 05:16 PM (j8AQC)
I can almost handle all that........plus Megyn Kelly in a naughty Catholic School girl outfit complete wiht the librarian glasses.........
Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at July 17, 2012 05:16 PM (OWjjx)
289http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/ Davis_Dawkins_8159122/?d=1
http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/ Duwayne_Henderson_8162102/
Posted by: Sons of O at July 17, 2012 05:09 PM (0It32)
------------
Linkys no worky for me.
Are these the two guys in the video?....the two robbers?
Posted by: wheatie at July 17, 2012 05:16 PM (MbB0O)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 17, 2012 05:17 PM (8y9MW)
Also:
Internet cafes are regulated by the state. They offer sweepstakes entries, which are used to buy time on computer terminals that simulate casino-style games. The operations, which have sprung up around the county and the state, are known to deal in cash.
Do not disturb armed and cranky grandpa when he's winning at video poker....
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 17, 2012 05:17 PM (kdS6q)
Because most policemen don't take nearly enough time on the range.
My old dad, an LEO with 30+ years of experience, trains these guys in Georgia and tries to impress upon them how important it is to shoot a lot.
Related: you don't want to be in a gunfight with that guy. I've seen him shoot a golf ball in mid-air with a revolver (ISYN).
Posted by: Andy at July 17, 2012 05:17 PM (OZPoa)
---
Well, hell.
There goes the rest of my day.
Posted by: fixerupper at July 17, 2012 05:17 PM (C8hzL)
CNN Says He Ran 19,000+ Negative Ads And Less Than 150 Positive Spots Last Week
Posted by: unemployed TOTUS at July 17, 2012 05:18 PM (e8kgV)
Posted by: andycanuck at July 17, 2012 05:18 PM (vDl/w)
Posted by: BackwardsBoy at July 17, 2012 05:18 PM (d0Tfm)
http://is.gd/uNfa0l
Posted by: Vic at July 17, 2012 05:18 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 17, 2012 05:18 PM (8y9MW)
Posted by: TheQuietMan at July 17, 2012 05:19 PM (1Jaio)
304
Posted by: wheatie at July 17, 2012 05:11 PM (MbB0O)
Would you say that you have a plethora of hoodies?
Yeah, I guess so.
Some are pullovers, some are zippered down the front, some are lightweight...and some are heavyweight.
Some are like blouses....some are thick,heavy outerwear.
Posted by: wheatie at July 17, 2012 05:19 PM (MbB0O)
Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 17, 2012 05:17 PM (kdS6q)
duh , BINGO!
Posted by: Senior Callahan at July 17, 2012 05:19 PM (AWmfW)
So please tell us. How many gunfights like this have you been in?"
None, and I plan on keeping it that way. I do train alot,though. Which is whyIuse my sights, carry a weapon with an adaquate sight radius, and know better than to open fire in a crowded room afteranouncing my intentions.
Posted by: laidup at July 17, 2012 05:19 PM (KZ73l)
Posted by: Sons of O at July 17, 2012 05:19 PM (0It32)
Yet none of those ads created themselves. The government had a hand in it.
Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at July 17, 2012 05:19 PM (OWjjx)
I've seen that: tsrblke sent it to me. I'm not sure what to do with it, though. It seems like it should be a natural fit for one of my "Growing Police State" pieces, but I can't even completely get my head around it.
Maybe I'll set some time aside tonight to come to grips with it and get a post written.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at July 17, 2012 05:20 PM (8y9MW)
I call BS. There goes 10 minutes, tops.
----
Well.... ummm... uh.... see..... ummm....uh.
OK. Well played sir, well played indeed. 8-)
Posted by: fixerupper at July 17, 2012 05:20 PM (C8hzL)
Posted by: polynikes at July 17, 2012 05:20 PM (vzfrq)
---
Sorry. You did have the dumbest comment, but then 's u n s h i n e' entered at 308.
Posted by: RioBravo at July 17, 2012 05:20 PM (eEfYn)
Posted by: Not an Artist at July 17, 2012 05:21 PM (uRumV)
I just found this handgun out in the parking lot!
Anybody lose an automatic?
I wanna see a show of hands for anybody who lost a gun!
This gun right here!
Can't you see it?
And my friend Duwayne here just found an aluminum baseball bat too!
You people sure are careless!
Hey! Why you shooting at us?
I said anybody lost a gun!
Posted by: Clutch Cargo at July 17, 2012 05:21 PM (Qxdfp)
Posted by: Full Pint at July 17, 2012 05:21 PM (7g1yh)
Posted by: Vic at July 17, 2012 05:21 PM (YdQQY)
.380 acp's excuse for only loading a quarter of the case? It sucked so
bad that Colt went back, loaded it full of powder and called it the .38
super.
Oops- just looked it up. In the Philippines they were using .38 LC (long colt), not .38 SW. The military used both, but it was the former that got replaced by the .45 acp. Both .38 rounds had about the same ballistics / muzzle energy though.
Posted by: Hollowpoint at July 17, 2012 05:22 PM (SY2Kh)
--
Agreed. We will all be safer too if you never carry anywhere or announce anything.
Posted by: RioBravo at July 17, 2012 05:22 PM (eEfYn)
Posted by: Dorian Taupe at July 17, 2012 05:24 PM (IfM3l)
Posted by: Honey Badger, drinker of mead at July 17, 2012 05:24 PM (GvYeG)
play there. Also the one with the bat was apparently looking to smash
all the computers with the bat. Probably for Trayvon or something."
It's an illegal gambling scam the Law is finally starting to crack down on:
http://tinyurl.com/73o6pez
"According to a statement from him in court records, Robert R. Townsend, a
gaming control officer, visited the operation on several occasions
between August 1, 2011 and December 21, 2011, where he bought computer
time and was given internet access to Vegas Style gambling games. He
purchased online time for games and could purchase "sweepstake credits"
on the server. He was also encouraged to buy a membership which allowed
him to use computers in the backroom, which were supposed to be nicer
and more convenient. After each use, he was able to cash out his credits
for his winnings, which were always less then the amount he had
purchased in online credits."
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at July 17, 2012 05:25 PM (mAYvW)
The .380 is a small round, and doesn't have much in the way of
knockdown power, even at pretty close range (which is why I always
objected to James Bond carrying one).
I was always under the impression that James Bond carried the .32 cal. version of the Walther PPK...
(the thread was nearly done anyway, stop looking at me like that!)
Posted by: s☺mej☼e at July 17, 2012 05:25 PM (HNn1q)
Posted by: Andy at July 17, 2012 05:17 PM (OZPoa)"
The late (and great) FBI Special Agent Jelly Bryce could drop a quarter from eye-level height, draw and shoot it dead-center at waist-height well before it hit the ground. They clocked his draw and fire at 4/10th of a second, which is about the time it takes for a flashbulb to go off--and which also happens to be the same speed timed for Mohammed Ali's jab.
Posted by: troyriser at July 17, 2012 05:26 PM (vtiE6)
"Do you have access to the special slo-mo movie angle of the shooter's trigger finger? That's cool"
"Squeezing" meaning firing. I know this video isneat, and I am glad no one that matters got hurt, but these wantwits were to rob, not to kill. If you think that him opening fire on these guys was the right thing to do, that fine--I would have let them leave.
Posted by: laidup at July 17, 2012 05:26 PM (45d4s)
That's what I was saying in a non-jargony way for simplicity's sake, lol. In other words, it's essentially the same bullet but not as powerful.
Posted by: Country Singer at July 17, 2012 05:27 PM (OAwQ+)
@333
I used to train to shoot people for a living. There is no "the" proper stance. Rifles have an even longer sight radius. Why not put one of those in your pocket.
You are permitted, nay, ENCOURAGED, to be able to hit moving targets while also moving, yourself.
You're doubling down on dipshit and it isn't pretty.
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 17, 2012 05:27 PM (FEqS6)
Posted by: laidup at July 17, 2012 05:19 PM (KZ73l)
------------------------------------------------
You have no idea how you'd act or what you'd do. Seeing that you've put so many limitations on yourself in your make-believe scenarios, you probably wouldn't do anything at all.
I found out in Vietnam that all that formal range training I had flew out the window when the shit hit the fan. I'm sure you could have written a full page on how incorrect I was firing my weapon. But all the ammo I fired went toward the enemy.
Posted by: Soona at July 17, 2012 05:27 PM (gaYoA)
Good gawd! Must we suffer through this shit every single day, every single post? I've had enough of its shit.
Posted by: Full Pint at July 17, 2012 05:30 PM (7g1yh)
Vic, it was likely Hercules 2400 you used. Common magnum powder going back to the days of Elmer Kieth.
I used Winchester 296 for building magnums myself.
Posted by: Scott J at July 17, 2012 05:31 PM (93RDb)
Posted by: Otis Criblecoblis at July 17, 2012 05:33 PM (IlZPo)
Posted by: laidup at July 17, 2012 05:26 PM (45d4s)
People are often irrational so you can never be sure what their true intent and limits are. That's why you have to respond to their threat capacity rather than what you *think* they might do.
Posted by: Mætenloch at July 17, 2012 05:35 PM (pAlYe)
Posted by: Fritz at July 17, 2012 05:35 PM (02fNe)
Gun caliber - .380 better than nothin' but I personally consider it and .25's strictly back up pieces for very close quarters. In other words when you can put 'em right on an elbow, knee, groin or head.
.40 S&W. .45acp and up for primary for me.
I defer to "The Colonel". I'm sure some of you know who I'm referring to. Many law enforcement agencies have upped to the .40 from the nine to better deal with amped up thugs. And they base that on more experience than I hope I ever have.
For myself I chose the .45 on a 1911 frame with a 1" shorter barrel. Clears faster and inherently just as accurate if you can deal with the 1" shorter sight plane.
At the ranges the brass balled gentleman was at point and shoot would be sufficient if practiced.
Posted by: teej at July 17, 2012 05:36 PM (pyh5u)
First off, everyone who says that .380 is crap is technically correct. I still wouldn't want to get shot with it. I had a .380 for a while and not only is it underpowered, but it sucks to SHOOT. I'm amazed the guy went 4 for 4 one handed, under stress, and farther that contact distance. I've switched to a pocket 9mm for those times when I can't carry a gun.
That's related to the whole "bah he should have had a .45!" argument. People who say things like that typically aren't 71 year olds who live in a state where its a crime to have your gun accidentally show through your clothing. Someone seeing just the outline of your gun in FL is a serious crime. Try concealing that 1911 wearing shorts and a t-shirt.
The thing that struck me most about the video was when the old guy grabbed his right wrist with his left hand. This is a very old technique. The guy has been a shooter for a loooong time.
I also like where he was sitting. Wall on one side, clear view of both the front door and the register. It's the spot I would've picked.
And yeah, that lady walking around with her hands over her mouth? This video is going in my classes just for that. Tunnel vision could have gotten her killed.
Posted by: wizardpc at July 17, 2012 05:36 PM (hWJMZ)
334Posted by: wheatie at July 17, 2012 05:16 PM (MbB0O)
Take out the space.
Posted by: Sons of O at July 17, 2012 05:19 PM (0It32)
----------
Thanks....that worked.
And, yup.
Those two are 'Sons of O'.
Posted by: wheatie at July 17, 2012 05:37 PM (MbB0O)
"If you think that him opening fire on these guys was the right thing to do, that fine--I would have let them leave."
I'm glad it ended up the way it did and I halfway agree with you. The CCW guy rolled the dice on the life of every person in that building, but you could really say the same if he HADN'T acted. Once the lead starts flying, all bets are off.
CCW guy could not possibly know the true intentions of the robbers at that moment. How many times have we seen some jackhole open up on an innocent group of people? It's hard to second guess him from that perspective.
I will say, the fact that he advanced quickly with a true violence of action eliminated *some* of the risk to the other patrons. He may not have had to do it but he did it right anyway.
Posted by: Jaws at July 17, 2012 05:39 PM (4I3Uo)
And you know this how? Nice view from your ivory tower?
Posted by: Brian in New Orleans at July 17, 2012 05:42 PM (mAYvW)
A .380 in your hand is immeasurably more powerful than a .45 too bulky to bring along.
I used to be pro .40 and worried about my wife's .380 but I did see some numbers culled together about round effectiveness in self defense.
Shockingly, a .22 has a greater chance of diverting an attack than nearly anything other than a 12ga. I hold this may be that a person holding a .22 can conceal it to the point that an attacker can approach until it is presented next to their head or into their chest. High fatality rate. This is what a .380 does but with more range.
This is why I want a .22 itdoesn't have tobe presentedjustmove your hand towardsa vital locationand stop anyone. Drawing a .40 or .45 lets an armed attacker know to start shooting before it's drawn.
Posted by: WheelmanForHire at July 17, 2012 05:46 PM (sLySf)
We don't know what the two robbers were saying....
They were waiving their weapons around, and it looked to me...like they were instructing people to do something....like rounding them up to one side.
One robber had a gun.
One robber had a shiney, silver-colored 'bat' of some sort.
[stop-action the video, you will see that]
So....I think that the hero Grandpa did the absolute right thing.
He coulda killed both those kids if he'd wanted to.
He was aiming low.
It's more like his intent was to chase them off the premises.
Posted by: wheatie at July 17, 2012 05:46 PM (MbB0O)
Posted by: endeavor to persevere at July 17, 2012 05:46 PM (zZJJp)
4 for 4 ! awesome. Second guess anything you want caliber, stance, tactics.
I say its a clean win
Posted by: The Jackhole at July 17, 2012 05:46 PM (nTgAI)
> 360 Many law enforcement agencies have upped to the .40 from the nine to better deal with amped up thugs.
Posted by: teej
Glock has a clever deal going on. They offer to swap guns with local cops. "We'll take your old 9mm glocks and give you brand new .40 glocks - NO CHARGE!."
Then they sell those 9mms at a premium price because they have the large capacity magazines.
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 17, 2012 05:48 PM (d9tUw)
Posted by: ConcealedKerry or SubMitt at July 17, 2012 05:48 PM (nonzP)
wizard dives to his right, backhander the ball and fires to first for the out. Nice scoop man. I always look to a seat facing the door and with my back to a wall when at resturants etc.
Posted by: teej at July 17, 2012 05:48 PM (xhupI)
Posted by: Dorian Taupe at July 17, 2012 05:24 PM (IfM3l)
I'm okay with them not using "10mm" in their title, less mistakes when I order ammo.
I'm still mad they canceled the new Bren Ten, though. *AGAIN*.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 17, 2012 05:49 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 17, 2012 05:48 PM (d9tUw)
I must be missing something. Everywhere you can't get standard (hi-cap) magazines, you can't get them with the gun either.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 17, 2012 05:51 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: teej at July 17, 2012 05:53 PM (pyh5u)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 17, 2012 05:51 PM (bxiXv)
I could be wrong, butpre-ban mags are ok in some places. In Cali you can own pre ban mags but cant sell or transfer
Posted by: The Jackhole at July 17, 2012 05:53 PM (nTgAI)
Posted by: ConcealedKerry or SubMitt at July 17, 2012 05:53 PM (nonzP)
Posted by: Forest Gimp at July 17, 2012 05:04 PM (0It32)
Center mass? I thought he said center ass!
Posted by: Old Geezer with Big Balls at July 17, 2012 05:55 PM (X/+QT)
Posted by: Hillary 'Man Stopper' Clinton at July 17, 2012 05:57 PM (L7hol)
Posted by: The Jackhole at July 17, 2012 05:53 PM (nTgAI)
The point being that if you buy a used police gun there you don't get the pre-ban magazines.
In most places you just buy the real magazines and not the crippled ones.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 17, 2012 05:58 PM (bxiXv)
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at July 17, 2012 05:59 PM (bxiXv)
"Glock has a clever deal going on. They offer to swap guns with local cops. "We'll take your old 9mm glocks and give you brand new .40 glocks"
Funny that in the past 5-10 years ammo designers and manufacturers have managed to close the gaps in performance between 9mm, .40, and .45 to a point where most in the know have sworn off the old size arguments and adopted a "shoot what you can get good hits fastest with" approach. Hornady Critical Duty, CorBon DPX, etc. are a completely different animal than the FMJs and first-generation JHPs that were around when the cops started moving to .40SW.
Posted by: Jaws at July 17, 2012 06:00 PM (4I3Uo)
That sounds about right. It has been a long time and Hercules has gone out of business now.
And who are all these people griping about a .45 being to big to carry? I have a cut down Colt 1911A1 (5 shot) that will fit in the back pocket of a pair of jeans.
Posted by: Vic at July 17, 2012 06:02 PM (YdQQY)
Posted by: teej at July 17, 2012 05:36 PM (pyh5u)
I dunno. Cooper practically made a fetish out of the 1911 platform. After reading/watching a lot of Cooper's ouvre, I went back and read Fairbairn and Sykes' book, 'Shooting To Live,' where the emphasis is on attaining speed of presentation and combat proficiency, not tight groups. Besides, the design of the 1911 makes it imperative you emphasize the sights since it isn't a natural pointer. You need to cant the barrel up to shoot accurately; otherwise, the round likely goes into the ground.
In any event, that whole 'point-shoot' and 'flash sight' debate is pretty pointless, in my view. Seems to me you do what circumstances and conditions dictate. Sometimes there'snothing for it but to draw your weapon as fast as you can, point itat the bad guy, and slap the trigger until he's down or you are.It's different for police officers, of course, who need to worry about liability issues and are often wearing body armor, so precision shooting under stress is more likely (and desireable) in law enforcement situations.
Agun is a tool and different tools are good for different jobs. Most of us who live in carry states choose smaller framed weapons with smaller calibers because of the concealibility factor. For that and other reasons, it is impractical for most of us to strap on a hand cannon before heading to work in the morning.
Posted by: troyriser at July 17, 2012 06:03 PM (vtiE6)
"Next time I'll have a box of the CorBon 90gr Self-Defense JHP with my non-fat vanilla latte, extra hot."
A. Another example of how violence is never the answer. B. Probably no charges because he didn't use a Kel-Tec 9mm, if you know what I mean.
Posted by: The Poster Formerly Known as Mr. Barky at July 17, 2012 06:03 PM (qwK3S)
Posted by: teej at July 17, 2012 06:06 PM (AiZkN)
http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/ Davis_Dawkins_8159122/?d=1
http://florida.arrests.org/Arrests/ Duwayne_Henderson_8162102/
I noticed their eye color is listed as BRO Isn't that racist? Won looks like Obamas son and Won looks like Holders, with holes!
Posted by: ConcealedKerry or SubMitt at July 17, 2012 06:06 PM (nonzP)
Even with all of that, I still keep a 12 gauge with an 18" barrel under the bed. I love my 45, but it doesn't compare with the damage done by a 12 gauge.
Posted by: Grim at July 17, 2012 06:07 PM (gyNYk)
Posted by: Bill Mitchell at July 17, 2012 06:08 PM (hlUJY)
Other than the "Red Heat" reference, I have no idea what that is.
I've personally shot a30-06 handgun. It was the only time in my life I've ever shot a handgun and said "screw that" (but I shot it again anyway).
Posted by: Grim at July 17, 2012 06:13 PM (gyNYk)
Ladies, ahem, is bigger usually better?
Posted by: teej at July 17, 2012 06:14 PM (ETWo2)
Posted by: steevy at July 17, 2012 06:14 PM (6o4Fb)
Posted by: Y-not at July 17, 2012 06:16 PM (5H6zj)
Posted by: cowboyup at July 17, 2012 06:16 PM (32Flp)
Posted by: teej at July 17, 2012 06:17 PM (ETWo2)
@390
Depends on how it handles.
Reload time very important.
Posted by: Y-not at July 17, 2012 06:16 PM (5H6zj)
I agree on both points.
Posted by: Sandra Fluke at July 17, 2012 06:18 PM (X/+QT)
Posted by: teej at July 17, 2012 06:20 PM (ETWo2)
Gotta go for a while.
Posted by: teej at July 17, 2012 06:23 PM (ETWo2)
I haven't laughed that hard in a while. It's a little unsettling, since I'm laughing at someone shooting people. But good God, it was funny.
Posted by: Darcy at July 17, 2012 06:26 PM (2+Sc2)
Posted by: 13times at July 17, 2012 06:27 PM (h6XiD)
/head_in_butt
Posted by: endeavor to persevere at July 17, 2012 06:29 PM (zZJJp)
Technically he had waved the gun around the room right past that guy, so while he never directly targeted him as a threat, I think he was fully justified. I will happily fight through phone calls, wallet, and door knocking to replace any gov leaders who disagree.
Posted by: Shiggz Rocketsurgeon at July 17, 2012 06:42 PM (RfvTE)
Posted by: Joman at July 17, 2012 06:43 PM (imXxF)
Even with my crossbreed my XD 16 round subcompact kept popping out from under my shirt while doing things like bending over at the grocery store. Wintertime I can conceal it fine, but summertime, Its either the lcp or nothing. Besides my wife doesn't have arm strength to use any bigger guns so if for some reason I am down at least she can use it.
Posted by: Shiggz Rocketsurgeon at July 17, 2012 06:48 PM (RfvTE)
Posted by: Fustigator at July 17, 2012 07:24 PM (+7a5s)
Thank you for that. It was before my time, so completely new for me. I'll need to be careful not to fall out of any chairs while reading it, since I'm only a couple paragraphs in and Loling repeatedly. One thing though. Ace gets on *you all* for swearing?!
Posted by: Polliwogette, teahada Hobbit at July 17, 2012 07:26 PM (h6HiH)
I was joking about the .380...and I stole that joke from an older joke about the .25. Any weapon is better than no weapon when you really need one.
Posted by: Hillary 'Man Stopper' Clinton at July 17, 2012 07:26 PM (L7hol)
Posted by: Mekan at July 17, 2012 07:30 PM (T/L2Z)
What? They're not from Iowa?
Posted by: Bow Tying White Boy at July 17, 2012 07:43 PM (p4U6S)
> 373 ...
I must be missing something. Everywhere you can't get standard (hi-cap) magazines, you can't get them with the gun either.
Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith
This was more common when the large cap magazines were banned nationwide. But you could sell them if they were imported PRE-ban. Which the police magazines were. So Glock swapped guns and sold the pre-ban magazines (and guns) for much more than the retail price of the same guns with small magazines. And Glock's cost to make new guns is absurdly low. That's why Mr. Glock is a very very wealthy man.
Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 17, 2012 07:44 PM (d9tUw)
Posted by: REV AL at July 17, 2012 08:21 PM (QTVh2)
Inner city ER docs I heard from said, once they know its a .22 in the stomach they don't even bother trying to find all the internal leaks because they'll never find them all in time.
Posted by: Shiggz Rocketsurgeon at July 17, 2012 08:22 PM (RfvTE)
http://www.ruger1022.com/docs/israeli_sniper.htm
Posted by: Shiggz Rocketsurgeon at July 17, 2012 08:34 PM (RfvTE)
Man, my sons daughters in hoodies are all over..
Posted by: Baraka Hussein at July 17, 2012 08:39 PM (yQWpI)
He can argue that in court. He may have to. I hope he wins.
I watched the video, and I didn't see that the miscreants were still holding their weapons. That will strengthen his case if he has one.
But I don't think I would have shot at the fleeing backs. That's just begging for legal trouble.
"Mr Jack is 100% wrong."
I suggest you take some classes from Massad Ayoob, or just read his book _In the Gravest Extreme_, and then see if you still think that.
And note that I never said "What a dirtbag, he deserves to go down for this horrible shocking crime." I am merely commenting on the legal situation as I understand it after a few dozen hours of classes on the subject, and reading multiple books on the subject.
Of course I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, and for all you know I'm hopped up on cocaine while telling you this, so I suggest you do your own independent research to confirm or disprove my comments.
Posted by: mr_jack at July 17, 2012 08:52 PM (TMG3G)
The 10mm cartridge led to handguns that are heavy and take large hands to hold comfortably. The FBI was down-loading them anyway. The .40 S&W was pretty much the same power as the actual FBI 10mm cartridges, but with a shorter cartridge length, allowing smaller grips on .40 pistols; and the maximum powder load on a .40 is much less than the theoretical maximum on a 10mm, so the pistol doesn't have to be quite as overbuilt and heavy. .40 S&W was a worthwhile improvement over the 10mm.
But I'm pretty confident in the 9mm as long as the shooter gets hits.
Posted by: mr_jack at July 17, 2012 08:57 PM (TMG3G)
Wyatt's a cop, I'd guess he has a fair guess as to what the likely laws are.
Posted by: Polliwogette, teahada Hobbit at July 17, 2012 09:21 PM (h6HiH)
Were those official Trayvon Martin Kevlar Hoodies, you know, the ones trademarked by his grieving parents ???
Posted by: 11B40 at July 17, 2012 09:30 PM (Usbqy)
Use the right ammo, practice, practice and practice some more. Oh and make sure you have at least one full reload.
Just sayin'
Posted by: ATLDiver at July 17, 2012 09:59 PM (rCsM0)
LOL!!
Posted by: JDShellnutt at July 17, 2012 11:09 PM (Jko6y)
I found out in Vietnam that all that formal range training I had flew out the window when the shit hit the fan. I'm sure you could have written a full page on how incorrect I was firing my weapon. But all the ammo I fired went toward the enemy.
There it is.
Posted by: SGT Mike, RVN '69 at July 18, 2012 01:51 AM (qWnts)
I know small auto-loaders are all the rage, still prefer my J-frame .357.
Not going to get up and run after a hit from that big boy.
Hell, I would rather use a .22 WMR than a .380.
Oh, I practice. and practice, and practise.
Do you?
Posted by: OpenTheDoor at July 18, 2012 05:36 AM (CAnlj)
I'm glad this guy was there. I bet those other pussys were busy commenting on blogs about how great .45s are. I'm an old fart and I usually carry a .357 mag. snubby, a compact 9mm and a .380 in the winter, the 9 and .380 in the spring and fall, but admittedly, the only place I carry the .380 by itself is in the shower.
The enthusiasm and vitality of youth are no match for the treachery and determination of old age. That's just the way it is.
Posted by: Jacksonunit at July 18, 2012 07:53 AM (tSS3z)
Obviously, that's not Raylan Givens.
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at July 18, 2012 08:49 AM (1hM1d)
Posted by: I forgot at July 18, 2012 09:45 AM (UWp/G)
Posted by: Craig at July 18, 2012 10:54 AM (NXKaP)
Posted by: Rusty at July 19, 2012 12:21 AM (TBlUN)
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