Breaking: 43 Catholic Institutions File Suit to Block Obama's Forced Birth Control Coverage

Finally.

This lawsuit is about one of America’s most cherished freedoms: the freedom to practice one’s religion without government interference. It is not about whether people have a right to abortion-inducing drugs, sterilization, and contraception. Those services are, and will continue to be, freely available in the United States, and nothing prevents the Government itself from making them more widely available. But the right to such services does not authorize the Government to force the University of Notre Dame (“Notre Dame”) to violate its own conscience by making it provide, pay for, and/or facilitate those services to others, contrary to itssincerely held religious beliefs. …

If the Government can force religious institutions to violate their beliefs in such a manner, there is no apparent limit to the Government’s power. Such an oppression of religious freedom violates Notre Dame’s clearly established constitutional and statutory rights.

The First Amendment also prohibits the Government from becoming excessively entangled in religious affairs and from interfering with a religious institution’s internal decisions concerning the organization’s religious structure, ministers, or doctrine. The U.S. Government Mandate tramples all of these rights.


Posted by: Open Blogger at 12:22 PM



Comments

1
Not happy with the awesome compromise?

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 21, 2012 12:24 PM (9M7e6)

2 You'd think they would be thanking me.

Posted by: Barack H. Obama, Esq. at May 21, 2012 12:25 PM (tqwMN)

3 For Greater Glory

Posted by: teh Wind at May 21, 2012 12:25 PM (HBU8E)

4 This Open Blogger fellow is good. He should start his own blog.

Posted by: Tami at May 21, 2012 12:25 PM (X6akg)

5 Not happy with the wool they pulled over their own eyes. Schadenfreude -- why yes, I'll have an extra scoop.

Posted by: SFGoth at May 21, 2012 12:25 PM (dZ756)

6 War's Coming.

~Sarah Connor

Posted by: USMC8541 at May 21, 2012 12:26 PM (sGtp+)

7 Wonder how the MSM will somehow make it the Institutions fault for not falling in line and taking one for 0. shouldn't be too hard, they are used to doing his dirty work.
Now, if we can finally get some churches to excommunicate Pelosi, and the other pretend Catholics, that will really make my day!

Posted by: ziggyelman at May 21, 2012 12:27 PM (qkm6L)

8 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable tyrant.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 21, 2012 12:27 PM (8y9MW)

9 The U.S. Government Mandate tramples all of these rights.

And that was the whole point of the exercise.

Posted by: joncelli, heartless Con and all around unpleasant guy at May 21, 2012 12:27 PM (RD7QR)

10 Ace: Pretty sure your password is qwerty123

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 21, 2012 12:27 PM (8y9MW)

11 Stalin: "The Pope! How many divisions has he got?"
Jesus: "Or do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, who would promptly send more than twelve legions of angels to my defense?"

Ya just don't pick certain fights, you know?

Posted by: Lord Ra at May 21, 2012 12:28 PM (XquQz)

12 I think Obama and the liberals miscalculated the Church's ability to fight legally. They probably thought the settlements for sexual harassment cases had precluded the Church from putting up a strong fight. This will be tied up in the courts for years.

Posted by: Rocks at May 21, 2012 12:28 PM (Q1lie)

13 Maybe Catholic universities like Notre Dame should stop having politicians show up to give commencement speeches altogether. One way or another a politician is going to offend someone in the Catholic constituency, whether it's firearms issues, abortion, contraception, social spending, education, health care, you name it.

Maybe they should also realize that Democrat politicians love using American Catholics as a backdrop for abortion and contraception funding drives, too. Catholic Democrat politicians love abandoning the Church's teachings in the name of progress.

Posted by: SoupOrMan at May 21, 2012 12:28 PM (J991N)

14 Is this still "Ace"?

Posted by: toby928© at May 21, 2012 12:29 PM (NG097)

15 In a sane world, when someone asks how the president is polling with catholics, and the answer comes as "We're suing him", you'd think that would be a sufficient answer. But he's probably polling at 50% approval with them.

Posted by: Jimmah at May 21, 2012 12:29 PM (UpwlP)

16 How many comments before a lefty troll brings the priest-pedophilia blast?

Posted by: LeBron Steinman at May 21, 2012 12:29 PM (jfWE9)

17 and nothing prevents the Government itself from making them more widely available.

And the Catholic Church gets it only partially right again.

The Constitution is supposed to prevent them from "making them more widely available."

It's not just wrong because they're trying to force it on the Church, it's wrong because they have no authority to do it at all.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Channelling Breitbart at May 21, 2012 12:29 PM (8y9MW)

18 They are coming.

Posted by: September at May 21, 2012 12:30 PM (NG097)

19 Can't they just lie back and think of Karl Marx?

Posted by: WalrusRex at May 21, 2012 12:30 PM (Hx5uv)

20 Pretty sure your password is qwerty123

Dammit. Now I have change mine.

Posted by: toby928© at May 21, 2012 12:31 PM (NG097)

21 10 Ace: Pretty sure your password is qwerty123

Qwerty123
All secure passwords require mixed case letters.

Posted by: jwb7605 at May 21, 2012 12:33 PM (Qxe/p)

22

I don't know what you think is wrong with a little oath of supremacy.

Papist wingnuts.

Posted by: Elizabeth Regina at May 21, 2012 12:33 PM (UaxA0)

23 Next up: Obama to force sharia-practicing Muslims to pay interest on loans.

Wait, what?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 21, 2012 12:33 PM (UOM48)

24 As much as I agree with the Church (Disclosure: Jack-Mormon married to good little Catholic girl) I have a hard time supporting them on this as they started giving up their moral authority when they embraced the Social Gospel during the FDR administration.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at May 21, 2012 12:34 PM (kqqGm)

25 FINALLY.

Posted by: MWR, Proud Tea(rrorist) Party Hobbit and ABO supporter at May 21, 2012 12:34 PM (4df7R)

26 Funny how all those who believe in the separation of church and state think that only goes one way.

Posted by: alexthechick at May 21, 2012 12:34 PM (yf2S8)

27 And if you continue, we will be forced to call upon the Office of the Inquisition... to ensure the doctrinal fidelity of our own Church's Adhearents...

and this will not be the 'Church of England' Cake or Death type of Inquisition.

/starts to sing... Give me that Old time religion... gimme that ole time religion...

Please forward this to Nancy Pelosi, the Kennedys, and any other 'professed' Catholics in places of power within the US Government.

In the past, many Popes have taken the Name of Pious, please do not force me to change my name, to PissedOff.

Speaking Ex Cathedra.

Posted by: If Romeo13, were Pope at May 21, 2012 12:35 PM (lZBBB)

28 The optics on this for the socialists is just bad.

Catholic Church, "I politely refuse your interference."

Obama government, "You will hand out these condoms and pills."

CC, "No."

OG, "We will force you to via the tax code."

CC, "Okay, we will sue."

OG, "But we are talking about freedom to choose!"

CC, "Funny so are we."

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 21, 2012 12:35 PM (Ytrrz)

29 The solution is obvious. Just remove Benedict XVI and appoint Obama pope.

Posted by: WalrusRex at May 21, 2012 12:35 PM (Hx5uv)

30 Thank God.

And Georgetown having Sebelius speak there a few days ago was sacrilege.

Posted by: Marco Rubio at May 21, 2012 12:36 PM (piMMO)

31 off hottie sock

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 21, 2012 12:36 PM (piMMO)

32 Open Blogger of Spades HQ has a nice ring to it.

Posted by: garrett at May 21, 2012 12:36 PM (3x6vk)

33 On the password, just look it up in the database table that it resides. If its encrypted, use the same encryption method to replace it with a known (encrypted) password. How hard is it?

Posted by: Jimmah at May 21, 2012 12:36 PM (UpwlP)

34 I think Obama thinks the Catholics will vote for him in spite of their religious beliefs, just as he assumes the blacks will vote for him in spite of their moral objections to gay marriage.

He has no moral core so he assumes no else does either. Until people vote their belief and not identity politics, he is right

Posted by: thunderb at May 21, 2012 12:37 PM (Dnbau)

35

The priest abuse lawsuits were righteous on purely moral grounds. This lawsuit is righteous on purely moral grounds. Neither one nullifies or lessens the propriety of the other.

My question is how about some regular laymen Catholic employers join in. How can the gov't make you renounce your faith or pay a fine? Tudor England anyone?

Posted by: imp at May 21, 2012 12:37 PM (UaxA0)

36 And Georgetown having Sebelius speak there a few days ago was sacrilege.


Posted by: Marco Rubio at May 21, 2012 12:36 PM (piMMO)


After they covered the crucifixes there when the JEF spoke, I figured they'd thrown in their lot with the Antichrist.

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 21, 2012 12:38 PM (wcH9x)

37 29
The solution is obvious. Just remove Benedict XVI and appoint Obama pope.




Well, since the Pope is going to resign, that could work.

Posted by: curiously clueless at May 21, 2012 12:38 PM (UOM48)

38 [24 I have a hard time supporting them on this as they started giving up their moral authority when they embraced the Social Gospel during the FDR administration.]

Hear Hear.

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at May 21, 2012 12:38 PM (SCcgT)

39 Yeah!

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at May 21, 2012 12:38 PM (DGIjM)

40 As much as I agree with the Church (Disclosure: Jack-Mormon married to
good little Catholic girl) I have a hard time supporting them on this as
they started giving up their moral authority when they embraced the
Social Gospel during the FDR administration.


****

No. It is NEVER too late to do right by God.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 21, 2012 12:38 PM (piMMO)

41
After they covered the crucifixes there when the JEF spoke, I figured they'd thrown in their lot with the Antichrist.


****

Say what?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 21, 2012 12:39 PM (piMMO)

42 I'm with a commenter upthread. I'm finding a bit of shadenfreude in all of this. The Catholic church has been licking the leftist's ass for so long. Perhaps this will wake them up. Or perhaps not. I wrote off the Catholic church as a religious entity a long time ago. It's mostly political now.

Karma's a bitch.

Posted by: Soona at May 21, 2012 12:40 PM (4BLwo)

43 After they covered the crucifixes there when the JEF spoke, I figured they'd thrown in their lot with the Antichrist.

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 21, 2012 12:38 PM (wcH9x)

No.... they were just being polite... having the President of the US cowering from Cross's is not a very polite thing to do to him...

Posted by: Vlad Obama, President of the US.. at May 21, 2012 12:40 PM (lZBBB)

44 For those of you that dont read Father Z's blog.. here is his response to Notre Dame filing suit:


the University of Notre Dame — filed religious liberty lawsuits against the federal government in a dozen different jurisdictions around the country. Father Z's rant: [Notre Dame. The irony is rich. They fawned over The First Gay President, the most aggressive promoter of abortion we have ever seen in the White House against the clear dissatisfaction of the US Bishops. They shamelessly sucked up to the President. But now that it comes to something that affects what they have to pay for, they are lining up against Obama's hostile directives. So, Fr. Jenkins! How's that "common ground" working for Notre Dame now?]

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at May 21, 2012 12:40 PM (DGIjM)

45 12
I think Obama and the liberals miscalculated the Church's ability to
fight legally. They probably thought the settlements for sexual
harassment cases had precluded the Church from putting up a strong
fight. This will be tied up in the courts for years.


Posted by: Rocks at May 21, 2012 12:28 PM (Q1lie)

That was mostly about liberal grievance politics as well. The gay guys are still pissed that the Church won't come around to their position, publicly. You also have NO idea what the church does for the poor and the money they have to use to do it.

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 12:41 PM (mFIbw)

46 Catholicsdon't celebrate Masturbation Month, either. Haters.

Posted by: Rosie Palmer at May 21, 2012 12:41 PM (yn6XZ)

47 No.... they were just being polite... having the President of the US
cowering from Cross's is not a very polite thing to do to him...

*****

The Holy water must have been a real bitch.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 21, 2012 12:41 PM (piMMO)

48 @24, it's a fair point...but once shamed, may never be recovered? Is that to be the standard?

Maybe we're about to find out how many divisions the Holy Father has....

Posted by: Ken at May 21, 2012 12:41 PM (fFh95)

49 The Holy water must have been a real bitch.


Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse

Michelle, "I'm melting!!!!"

Posted by: Anna Puma at May 21, 2012 12:42 PM (Ytrrz)

50
" Those services are, and will continue to be, freely available in the United States, and nothing prevents the Government itself from making them more widely available. "


It almost looks like the church is pushing for single payer universal coverage for those things that it morally opposes.

Posted by: JustLikeDavidHasselhoff at May 21, 2012 12:43 PM (aPkU9)

51

You know, I miss Ace just as much as everyone
else, but you’ve got to admit, this Open Blogger fellow is pretty good.

Posted by: jwest at May 21, 2012 12:43 PM (ZDsRL)

52 The Holy water must have been a real bitch.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 21, 2012 12:41 PM (piMMO)

Well, and then there was that whole Oath of Office thing... of course I was stuttering and screwed it up, putting my dam hand on the Bible burned the heck out of me...

Luckily we could redo it in private, where no one noticed I didn't really put my hand on that book...

Posted by: Vlad Obama, President of the US.. at May 21, 2012 12:44 PM (lZBBB)

53 But he's probably polling at 50% approval with them.

You have to distinguish between catholics in communion with the church, mass going catholics, cultural catholics and the "we are church" catholics. Of the first set I would guess that dems have about a 3% approval rate, second set about 40%, third group about 47% and fourth group about 100%. All these people call themselves catholic---like Pelosi--and no one but the first group has any business doing so.

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 12:44 PM (mFIbw)

54 Karma's a bitch.
Posted by: Soona at May 21, 2012 12:40 PM (4BLwo)


Not all...

Pull out your red/blue state map.. see the liberal areas.. those are who are liberals first and Catholic somewhere where way down the list.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at May 21, 2012 12:44 PM (DGIjM)

55 Say what?


Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 21, 2012 12:39 PM (piMMO)


I'm too lazy to do tiny url but google obama speech at Georgetown and check the cns article.

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 21, 2012 12:44 PM (wcH9x)

56 @44 Father Z's blog rocks.

Posted by: Ken at May 21, 2012 12:44 PM (fFh95)

57 Did I miss it? Is there a list of the institutions which joined in on the lawsuit?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 21, 2012 12:44 PM (piMMO)

58 Yes, thank you, Catholic Church, for backing this abortion of a bill in the first place. The rest of us appreciate your statist, social justice leanings bent. Welcome to reality where you don't negotiate with the devil just so he'll take your soul last.

Somehow the MFM will spin this so that this "news of the day" hurts the GOP.





There will be blood.

Posted by: The Hammer at May 21, 2012 12:45 PM (wo1YR)

59 [No. It is NEVER too late to do right by God.]

I await with bated breath the Catholic renouncement of their support for the Socialist State...

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at May 21, 2012 12:45 PM (SCcgT)

60 56 @44 Father Z's blog rocks.
Posted by: Ken at May 21, 2012 12:44 PM (fFh95)

Yep! Love him.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at May 21, 2012 12:46 PM (DGIjM)

61 First the Big Bang Theory comes right out of the Catholic Church and now they won't buy us the condoms to do it. Hypocrites!

Posted by: Sandra Fluck, Slut-Leech at May 21, 2012 12:47 PM (X3lox)

62 A little mood music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGBHfXPqbgI

Posted by: Anti-Pope Barry Obama at May 21, 2012 12:48 PM (XvHmy)

63 Remember, these same 'bishops' supported OCare, thanks to the whole 'social justice' thing or something. I guess that whole serving two masters thing isn't as easy as it looks, or maybe someone pointed out they were serving the wrong one.

The inevitable end result of a massive Fail of theology and philosophy. The hardest thing about being a Catholic sometimes is realizing your hierarchy in the US has such massive issues.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 12:48 PM (GBXon)

64 Lawsuit, shmawsuit. Once you renounce violence, and we haven't, you lose.

Posted by: Bami, supreme leader of SCIU at May 21, 2012 12:48 PM (eBRdM)

65 So, where are all the other Christian denominations on this issue? Why aren't the born agains making a fuss? IMHO, ALL Christians should be throwing a sh*tfit over Obamacare and it's rules.

Posted by: shibumi at May 21, 2012 12:49 PM (z63Tr)

66 I agree with the post 50, they are OK with it they just don't want to pay for it. Single payer babee

Posted by: thunderb at May 21, 2012 12:49 PM (Dnbau)

67 I'm with a commenter upthread. I'm finding a bit of shadenfreude in all of this. The Catholic church has been licking the leftist's ass for so long. Perhaps this will wake them up. Or perhaps not. I wrote off the Catholic church as a religious entity a long time ago. It's mostly political now.

Karma's a bitch.
Posted by: Soona at May 21, 2012 12:40 PM (4BLwo)
---------------------------------------------------
At this point they are almost Unitarians with cooler churches.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at May 21, 2012 12:49 PM (jucos)

68 Sigh! Obviously, you stupid bitter clingers are too dumb to know that like the Constitution, The Bible is a living, breathing document...

Posted by: runningrn at May 21, 2012 12:49 PM (vJ9tV)

69 Yes, thank you, Catholic Church, for backing this
abortion of a bill in the first place. The rest of us appreciate your
statist, social justice leanings bent. Welcome to reality where you
don't negotiate with the devil just so he'll take your soul last. Posted by: The Hammer


I think you're misreading what the Church actually teaches. Namely, that we help each other directly, we don't sub-contract that task out to the government.

However, when it comes to the U.S. Bishops from 1968-2005, you're spot on.

Glad they finally got the wake up call.

Posted by: Tom at May 21, 2012 12:49 PM (sbV1u)

70 What about Georgetown Univ.?

Posted by: nevergiveup at May 21, 2012 12:50 PM (05RcU)

71 BUT IT'S IN THE WORD!
THE WORD!!!!!!

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi, devoutest Catholic ever at May 21, 2012 12:50 PM (kZVsz)

72 I'm thinking JustLikeDavidHasselhoff it right on this. I don't see them getting this pissy about tax money going to Planned Parenthood, which is essentially the same damned thing so far as their membership's concerned.

Posted by: Clownf*cker at May 21, 2012 12:50 PM (F26eZ)

73 So I'm pretty sure there will be cries of "The Pope was a racist Nazi" soon.

Posted by: runningrn at May 21, 2012 12:50 PM (vJ9tV)

74 "Remember, these same 'bishops' supported OCare, thanks to the whole
'social justice' thing or something. I guess that whole serving two
masters thing isn't as easy as it looks, or maybe someone pointed out
they were serving the wrong one."

Lie. The USCCB opposed OCare precisely because it did not include a moral exemption.

Posted by: mrp at May 21, 2012 12:51 PM (HjPtV)

75 I've said it before and will say it again, Open Blogger is the best of the bunch.

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at May 21, 2012 12:51 PM (mFxQX)

76 The hardest thing about being a Catholic sometimes is realizing your hierarchy in the US has such massive issues.Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV

^^^ This.

Can I have an amen for the brother at the DMV?

Posted by: Tom at May 21, 2012 12:51 PM (sbV1u)

77
The Catholic church has been licking the leftist's ass for so long.
---------------------

I don't know how long, but truthfully? Cardinal Mahoney got LOUDLY illegal-immigrant-friendly in SoCal when the Los Angeles diocese was hit by some big pedophile lawsuits.

Posted by: the new, improved arhooley -- now with 10% more cynicism! at May 21, 2012 12:51 PM (m1bmJ)

78 Somehow the MFM will spin this so that this "news of the day" hurts the GOP.

****

Romney Support Religious Lawsuit to Prevent Obama Providing Healthcare to Women

Posted by: WalrusRex at May 21, 2012 12:51 PM (Hx5uv)

79 How about the Virginia judge who suggested last week that a school remove 4 of the 10 commandments so that students wouldn't be offended at the display?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 21, 2012 12:51 PM (piMMO)

80 Dolan was lied to by the President. They were assured that this wouldn't happen. They should have known better.

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 12:52 PM (mFIbw)

81
TEH CATHOLICS AND MITT ROMNEY WANT TO PUNISH YOUR DAUGHTER WITH A BABY!!!ELEVENTY!!!

Posted by: SCOAMF at May 21, 2012 12:52 PM (vJ9tV)

82 It burns! It burns!

Posted by: president o'bumbles at May 21, 2012 12:53 PM (FTuxU)

83 Pull out your red/blue state map.. see the liberal areas.. those are who are liberals first and Catholic somewhere where way down the list.
Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at May 21, 2012 12:44 PM (DGIjM)

-------------------------------------------------

I understand what you're saying. BUT, the CC has allowed the leftists to establish themselves into the hierarchy. This is the result of having no oversight or moral courage to tell these peoplethat their ideas run against the precepts of the church. Past popes are as guilty of this as any one of the members.

Posted by: Soona at May 21, 2012 12:53 PM (4BLwo)

84 Blessed are the homosexuals because they vote Democrat.

Posted by: Pope Pelosi at May 21, 2012 12:53 PM (Hx5uv)

85 so what about the rest of us that morally abhor the the idea of partial birth abortions?
are we shit out of luck when that becomes the norm we are made to financially support?

how does the Catholic Church feel about the GOVT being able to decide who is worth saving economically?

Posted by: willow at May 21, 2012 12:53 PM (TomZ9)

86 This is an example of why a government should remain deaf and mute. This was never a national crisis to be fixed by the government. Next time a government buffoon wants to help, punch him in the junk.


Posted by: dogfish at May 21, 2012 12:53 PM (N2yhW)

87 42 -

The problem with that attitude is there are tens of millions of practicing Catholics in this country who never supported their hierarchy's leftward stance. People believe their souls are at risk, and they don't believe the Powers-That-Be ARE the Church. The Church is the people, the community, and the fact that they've been ill-served by their leadership doesn't mean they deserve what has happened here.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 21, 2012 12:54 PM (TOk1P)

88
Dolan was lied to by the President. They were assured that this wouldn't happen. They should have known better.Posted by: Dagny


I knew the tide was turning when Dolan said that in public. (He didn't use the word "Lying" but the meaning was obvious).

In the past the "Catholic" response would have been public silence followed by hand wringing in the sacristy.

Glad those days are over.

Oh and....Father Z's blog rocks....

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 12:54 PM (sbV1u)

89
This is where the Chinese and their one child policy really have it right!

Posted by: Thomas Friedman at May 21, 2012 12:54 PM (vJ9tV)

90 How about the Virginia judge who suggested last week that a school
remove 4 of the 10 commandments so that students wouldn't be offended at
the display?

****

Is the judge going to decide or do we get to pick which commandments to follow? I mean, I've got no problem with that graven images one but some of the others cramp my style.

Posted by: Pope Pelosi at May 21, 2012 12:55 PM (Hx5uv)

91 what about old folks needing a hip replacement, or 70 and no longer contributing to the tax base?
If insurance companies are destroyed will it even be an option?

Posted by: willow at May 21, 2012 12:55 PM (TomZ9)

92 The thing that is so ironic is how abortion is destroying generations of black americans. They must not see it.

Posted by: thunderb at May 21, 2012 12:55 PM (Dnbau)

93 at age 70 no longer contributing to the tax base*

Posted by: willow at May 21, 2012 12:56 PM (TomZ9)

94 74: On further review and research, I hereby stand corrected on this point. While there were likely individual bishops who did support OCare, you are quite correct that the main organization did, indeed, oppose that abomination.

...oh wait, only because it didn't carve out an exception for their concerns, not because it was an unconstitutional behemoth that would ultimately turn citizens into serfs. So while you have the technical point, the overall sentiment remains.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 12:57 PM (GBXon)

95 It almost looks like the church is pushing for single payer universal coverage for those things that it morally opposes.


What?


Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 12:58 PM (mFIbw)

96 @91 - It's hip to wheelchair!

Posted by: Huey Lewis & The News at May 21, 2012 12:58 PM (kZVsz)

97 Cool. Now if the the bishops could stop bitching about Paul Ryan's budget and how it will force Gramps to pick food over medicine that would be great.

A good number of the higher-ups in the Church are still big ass liberals you know -- contraception mandate backlash or not.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 21, 2012 12:58 PM (pLTLS)

98 In order for current payers to be able to pay for the health care of older payers, there has to be an ever widening large base. The population has to grow. If it doesn't grow, the social programs are unsustainable. Thats why the push for more illegal aliens. Because abortion is their sacrement.

Posted by: thunderb at May 21, 2012 12:58 PM (Dnbau)

99 I don't worry too much, since my buddy Obama's got my back!

Posted by: Pazuzu at May 21, 2012 12:58 PM (XvHmy)

100
What people don't realize is that during the miracle of the Feeding of the 5000, Jesus had the disciples distribute free condoms with every meal.

Posted by: St. Nancy Pelosi or is that Nancy Pelosi St.? at May 21, 2012 12:58 PM (vJ9tV)

101 83 -

And you are right in the sense that the Church is a top-down institution. It's not necessarily a lack of moral courage though, that the people cannot rise up and challenge their hierarchy, when the mentality is that the hierarchy is somehow infused with Grace, thus rendering their decisions, if not always infallible, at least very very difficult to challenge publicly. At least from the right. But let a Pelosi or Kerry and any given Kennedy talk about how much they loves them some abortions, and the Church hierarchy is silent on it.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 21, 2012 12:58 PM (TOk1P)

102 This is the only time I will utter this phrase.

Go Notre Dame!

Posted by: mpfs at May 21, 2012 12:59 PM (iYbLN)

103 The thing that is so ironic is how abortion is destroying generations of black americans. They must not see it.

Posted by: thunderb


That's part of their plan. Look through history and you'll see the eugenicists always come from the political left. That's also the plan of the eco-nuts too.

I notice that the eco-nuts seem to lack the courage of their own convictions. I mean, if they REALLY cared about overpopulation, they'd be committing suicide in great big bunches. But...sadly....no.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 12:59 PM (sbV1u)

104 As a Jew, I am not a big fan of the Catholic Church, but in this instance I am rooting for them, while fully expecting them to return to their liberal, liberation theology crap as soon as they get their way with the mandate.

By the way, I like Catholic girls just fine, especially in those cute plaid skirts!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2012 12:59 PM (nEUpB)

105 Go Notre Dame!Posted by: mpfs

If they win the case I demand you sing the Notre Dame fight song.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 12:59 PM (sbV1u)

106 How about the Virginia judge who suggested last week that a school remove 4 of the 10 commandments so that students wouldn't be offended at the display?

There's an old Jewish joke about this. G-d goes to the arabs and offers them to be his Chosen people if they take his commandments. The arabs ask for an example. "Thou shalt not steal." Oh, stealing is part of our culture. We could never live by that. So G-d goes to another. They ask for an example. "Thou shalt not commit adultery." Again, they can't take living with that law. Finally, G-d comes to Moses and offers them to the Jews. Moses asks, "How much do they cost?" G-d says they're free. Moses says, "Free? We'll take ten."

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at May 21, 2012 01:00 PM (X3lox)

107
By the way, I like Catholic girls just fine, especially in those cute plaid skirts!


Did you know that I went to an all girl's Catholic school? I have the uniform I wore and it still fits. Do you want to see?

Posted by: Helen Thomas sporting knee sox and a very, very short plaid skirt at May 21, 2012 01:01 PM (vJ9tV)

108 Now say 6 Hail Marys and 5 Our Fathers!

Posted by: Little Boomer at May 21, 2012 01:01 PM (3qM/W)

109 Well that was an interesting sock to keep on for that comment...yikes....

Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 21, 2012 01:01 PM (pLTLS)

110 OT: Crying Boner is supporting Schmucky Chucky Schumer's ex-patriot tax on Eduardo Saverin. Is he just clueless or do the demonrats have something on him?
Either way, somebody needs to primary this RINO asshat.

http://scoamf.us/tF

Posted by: Toaster at May 21, 2012 01:02 PM (sJKFk)

111 I don't agree with the Church in its stand on illegal immigration or "free" shit given to the "poor". However, it is doing it's best to do what it thinks that Jesus would want. It will not distinguish between Mexican catholics and American catholics when it helps someone. I think it should encourage them to not be criminals go home. It feels like, if they need help, it will help them because they are people. I've had this fight a million times with the priests. Now, I just shake my head and say, "Sorry, and I don't want to hear it when you destroy the economy in the US and then there is NO ONE to help the poor."


Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 01:03 PM (mFIbw)

112 By the way, I like Catholic girls just fine, especially in those cute plaid skirts!

Stay away from our wimmins, Christ killer!

Posted by: Pope Pius XII at May 21, 2012 01:03 PM (QKKT0)

113 105
Go Notre Dame!Posted by: mpfs

If they win the case I demand you sing the Notre Dame fight song.


Posted by: Sean Bannion

I did not know that was part of the deal. Hmmm. I'll have to practice.

Posted by: mpfs at May 21, 2012 01:03 PM (iYbLN)

114 Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 12:59 PM (sbV1u)

Yes.

My earnest but profoundly stupid sister had no idea that Margaret Sanger was a eugenicist and advocated genocide. She really believes that "choice" has no consequences.

I may ask for a DNA test just to confirm that we have some of the same genes.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2012 01:04 PM (nEUpB)

115 what about old folks needing a hip replacement, or 70 and no longer contributing to the tax base? If insurance companies are destroyed will it even be an option?
Posted by: willow at May 21, 2012 12:55 PM (TomZ9)

---------------------------------------------

It depends. Are they contributors to the democrat party?

Posted by: Soona at May 21, 2012 01:04 PM (4BLwo)

116 All of that miracle healing of the lame and the blind? Yeah. That was Christ telling us that we really need "free" universal healthcare.

IN. THE. WORD!

Posted by: Monseigneur Pelosi at May 21, 2012 01:04 PM (kZVsz)

117 I understand what you're saying. BUT, the CC has allowed the leftists to
establish themselves into the hierarchy. This is the result of having
no oversight or moral courage to tell these peoplethat their ideas run
against the precepts of the church. Past popes are as guilty of this as
any one of the members.



They tide may have turned. It was an encouraging sign that Cardinal Ratzinger (Benedict) followed John Paul II.

Posted by: fluffy at May 21, 2012 01:05 PM (z9HTb)

118 What chaps my hide is the number of women, Catholic and others, who are buying that whole "Republican War on Women" line.

Of course, my response to these women is always, "Strong, independent women are capable of buying their own birth control. Why do you want women to be weak and dependent?"

Posted by: nerdygirl at May 21, 2012 01:05 PM (TvodA)

119 111: Agreed. The Archbishop for my area is a good man--I've met him, I like him, he has dual Canon and Civil Law degrees, he's sharp as a tack--but when I see his stances on that subject--especially re: Alabama's recent immigration law--well, I just shake my head.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 01:05 PM (GBXon)

120 That's why we're called the "Fighting Irish"!! My name is RUDY and I approve this message.

Posted by: Rudy Ruettiger at May 21, 2012 01:06 PM (c3mby)

121 Posted by: Helen Thomas sporting knee sox and a very, very short plaid skirt at May 21, 2012 01:01 PM (vJ9tV)

Wow. You went directly to "11"

I may need a lobotomy to ensure that this image is erased from my brain.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2012 01:06 PM (nEUpB)

122 The Church isn't silent on Pelosi et al. In fact Pelosi's bishop comes out every damn time that scrunt says something nuts about the Church. Every damn time. Guess who DOESN'T cover it? Anyone? Anyone?

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 01:06 PM (mFIbw)

123 Niedermeyer, I agree with you that as individuals, we can turn and start doing right by God.

The problem I have is that the Church as an institution that has a spousal relationship to Jesus (Ephesians) should have never strayed in the first place.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at May 21, 2012 01:06 PM (kqqGm)

124 I prefer Fr. Frog , myself .

Posted by: awkward davies at May 21, 2012 01:06 PM (Jp1VY)

125 2! 4! 6 ! 8! who do we appreciate?! PAPISTS! PAPISTS! YEEEEEEEAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!! PAPISTS!!!!!!!!

Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 21, 2012 01:07 PM (Ho2rs)

126 Speaking of Catholic Kennedy's, how many women's lives have been ruined by these selfish bastards?

Posted by: Zombie Mrs. Robert Kennedy Jr. at May 21, 2012 01:07 PM (TvodA)

127 This is the result of having
no oversight or moral courage to tell these people that their ideas run
against the precepts of the church. Past popes are as guilty of this as
any one of the members.


Hear hear. Now Cesare, go check on the chestnut order for tonight's banquet.

Posted by: Pope Alexander VI at May 21, 2012 01:07 PM (QKKT0)

128 And you are right in the sense that the Church is a top-down
institution. It's not necessarily a lack of moral courage though, that
the people cannot rise up and challenge their hierarchy, when the
mentality is that the hierarchy is somehow infused with Grace, thus
rendering their decisions, if not always infallible, at least very very
difficult to challenge publicly. Posted by: BurtTC


Pournell's Iron Law of Bureaucracy seems to fit this case.
"in
any bureaucratic organization there will be two kinds of people: those who
work to further the actual goals of the organization, and those who work for
the organization itself. ... The Iron Law states that
in all cases, the second type of person will always gain control of the
organization, and will always write the rules under which the organization
functions."

Posted by: weft cut-loop at May 21, 2012 01:07 PM (ebPtk)

129 The Church isn't silent on Pelosi et al. In fact Pelosi's bishop comes
out every damn time that scrunt says something nuts about the Church.


Excommunicate or STFU.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 01:07 PM (GBXon)

130 My Irish half is fighting and drinking, the Jewish half cooks food and bitches. Deadly combination.


Posted by: mpfs at May 21, 2012 01:07 PM (iYbLN)

131 mpfs......

i still can't say it.......

Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 21, 2012 01:07 PM (Ho2rs)

132 Over/under for number of days until Holder & DoJ launch a probe into pedophilia and the Catholic Church using RiCO?

Posted by: The Robot Devil at May 21, 2012 01:08 PM (DNTer)

133 I guess that over 50% of "self-identifying" Catholics haven't regularly attended Mass in decades. Of the ones that go to Mass regularly, over 80% are conservative.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 21, 2012 01:08 PM (O3R/2)

134 122 -

There need to be some excommunications. Anything less is acceptance.

Posted by: BurtTC at May 21, 2012 01:08 PM (TOk1P)

135 Clearly ND thought that having Teh Won give a speech at ND while they slobbered all over him would somehow "insulate" them from the fallout of the coming socialism. Heh, not so much.

Socialism for thee but not for me has been in operation in the Church for a long time now, nice that the dummies who run things are finally figuring it out.

Just wait until October if the poll numbers are still bad for Teh Won, how fast do you think he will issue some sort of "executive order" written with invisible ink on a wet napkin, and let the ND dummies off the hook.

Posted by: Boots at May 21, 2012 01:08 PM (neKzn)

136 104 As a Jew, I am not a big fan of the Catholic Church, but in this instance I am rooting for them, while fully expecting them to return to their liberal, liberation theology crap as soon as they get their way with the mandate.

By the way, I like Catholic girls just fine, especially in those cute plaid skirts!
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2012 12:59 PM (nEUpB)


Pot meet kettle..
Dont Jews overwhelmingly vote democrat

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at May 21, 2012 01:08 PM (DGIjM)

137 The thing that is so ironic is how abortion is destroying generations of black americans. They must not see it.>>

Well it is also the welfare system that allows for this kinda crap to infect them also.


"Knoxville, TN) Desmond Hatchett is pleading with the state of Tennessee to help him pay for child support. With 30 kids, who could afford to pay child support? Yes, 30 children by 11 different “baby mamas.” Desmond explained how it all happened, well you know what we mean, “I had four kids in the same year. Twice.” The children range in age from toddlers to 14 years old."

http://tinyurl.com/7p6zfwf

Posted by: Buzzsaw at May 21, 2012 01:08 PM (tf9Ne)

138 "when the mentality is that the hierarchy is somehow infused with Grace,
thus rendering their decisions, if not always infallible, at least very
very difficult to challenge publicly."

You're serious, right? Catholics argue about everything and anything at the drop of a hat.

But we have the Magisterium, and on that rock we stand strong in faith, hope, and caritas.

Posted by: mrp at May 21, 2012 01:09 PM (HjPtV)

139 The local Bishops are VERY left-wing on just about every issue. They're anti-gun and pro-illegal immigration. It's nice to see them on the right side of something.

Posted by: Max Entropy at May 21, 2012 01:09 PM (JPbsO)

140 Catholic charities are wonderful. And I say this as a Jew. After hurricane Katrina, the best organized most helpful and most responsive charity were Catholic Charities. They do good work.

I think the catholic church, as a financial entity in the US, realized that it cannot afford to pay for this mandated care. They wanted an exemption for religious organizations.

However, the same church was silent, as far as I am aware, when the financial burden is put on their parishoners. The current wording of their statement certainly leaves that impression.

If it is immoral to require the institution to pay, isn't it likewise immoral to require the individual to pay if they have moral objections.

Posted by: thunderb at May 21, 2012 01:09 PM (Dnbau)

141 mpfs......



i still can't say it.......

Posted by: phoenixgirl


LOL. I understand but this time I stand on their side.

BTW, how is it going in Phoenix with the Gladiator fire? Are you close by?

Posted by: mpfs at May 21, 2012 01:10 PM (iYbLN)

142 Why is it that all my (ex) hippie friends who used to have the "Question Authority" bumper stickers on their cars back in the 70's 80's don't anymore?

Posted by: Clutch Cargo at May 21, 2012 01:10 PM (Qxdfp)

143 My Irish half is fighting and drinking, the Jewish half cooks food and bitches. Deadly combination. Posted by: mpfs

Go on.

Wait, let me slip into something more comfortable first.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 01:10 PM (sbV1u)

144 The Papal Nuncio during the 80s who submitted names to the Vatican to be made bishops was lavender. There are conservative dioceses and liberal dioceses. They've been trying to fix it but there are SO many tard bishops that Benedict has to look at as his "sons" that it's going to be a long haul cleaning up the American Catholic Church.

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 01:10 PM (mFIbw)

145 How can we be this far into a thread dealing with Catholics and the queen of the litter box hasn't weighed in?

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 21, 2012 01:11 PM (wcH9x)

146 136

That would be correct Jumbo Shrimp. It is mostly the self-loathing East/West Coast Jew. They drive me nuts.

Posted by: mpfs at May 21, 2012 01:11 PM (iYbLN)

147 mpfs

they are making progress on the fire....no not close....i'm in the southern most part of phx next to the rez....we get the smoke though....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 21, 2012 01:12 PM (Ho2rs)

148 You're serious, right? Catholics argue about everything and anything at the drop of a hat.Posted by: mrp

True. But there are those Catholics who don't believe in the Magesterium.

They call themselves "Catholic." I call them "Protestant."

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 01:12 PM (sbV1u)

149 And you are right in the sense that the Church is a top-down institution. It's not necessarily a lack of moral courage though, that the people cannot rise up and challenge their hierarchy, when the mentality is that the hierarchy is somehow infused with Grace, thus rendering their decisions, if not always infallible, at least very very difficult to challenge publicly. At least from the right. But let a Pelosi or Kerry and any given Kennedy talk about how much they loves them some abortions, and the Church hierarchy is silent on it.
Posted by: BurtTC at May 21, 2012 12:58 PM (TOk1P)

-------------------------------------------------

Then please explain to me the drastic changes that happened to the CC during the 60's and 70's. You can't tell me it was all the pope's idea. The pressure to make these changes came from somewhere else.

Posted by: Soona at May 21, 2012 01:12 PM (4BLwo)

150 Bannion,

I have post new pics on Google+.

I consider Google+ the Devil's tool but facebook is even worse. Wait until facebook shareholders want to see results. Things are gonna change on that social network.

Posted by: mpfs at May 21, 2012 01:13 PM (iYbLN)

151 >>Yes, 30 children by 11 different “baby mamas.”

Why is anyone surprised? The women have economic incentives not to tell him to wrap it or keep it in his pants...


Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at May 21, 2012 01:13 PM (/kI1Q)

152 And Georgetown having Sebelius speak there a few days ago was sacrilege.
Posted by: Marco Rubio at May 21, 2012 12:36 PM (piMMO)

Jesuits are now tools of satan. The Church needs to purge them.

Posted by: Hydrocarbon Liberation Front at May 21, 2012 01:13 PM (NVu2l)

153 I agree everyone has a right to birth control.

Everyone has the right to not have sex. There's your 'right to birth control.'

Posted by: blindside at May 21, 2012 01:14 PM (x7g7t)

154 They've been trying to fix it but there are SO many tard bishops that Benedict has to look at as his "sons" that it's going to be a long haul cleaning up the American Catholic Church.

The simple solution is to transfer the African Bishops to America, and vice versa.

Posted by: toby928© at May 21, 2012 01:14 PM (NG097)

155 Anyone voting for, using, or encouraging abortion or fetus eliminating forms of birth control are automatically excommunicated. I think what people mean when they say that is that they want a bishop to make the statement that certain people cannot present themselves at mass to receive communion and if they do they will be publicly shunned? They don't really do that so much....maybe they should.

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 01:14 PM (mFIbw)

156 the church is changing...the liberal bishops are a dying breed....and the new guys are for the most part conservative.....as are the young priests.....

Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 21, 2012 01:14 PM (Ho2rs)

157 >>How can we be this far into a thread dealing with Catholics and the queen of the litter box hasn't weighed in?

Field research. Her barber's cousin who knew a priest won't come to her...

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at May 21, 2012 01:14 PM (/kI1Q)

158 I have post new pics on Google+.Posted by: mpfs

I saw them.

Still....veeeeeeeeeeeery cute! I just wanna pinch those cheeks!

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 01:14 PM (sbV1u)

159 145
How can we be this far into a thread dealing with Catholics and the queen of the litter box hasn't weighed in?


Posted by: Captain Hate at May 21, 2012 01:11 PM (wcH9x



shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 21, 2012 01:14 PM (UOM48)

160 They don't really do that so much....maybe they should.Posted by: Dagny

Canon 915!

Bring the heat!

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 01:15 PM (sbV1u)

161 Pot meet kettle..
Don't Jews overwhelmingly vote democrat

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at May 21, 2012 01:08 PM (DGIjM)

Absolutely. I am not suggesting that Jews have any better sense of self-preservation.

Although...what I meant was that the historic antipathy of the RCC against the Jews does not make me feel warm and fuzzy and willing to help when the Church is in trouble.

And as I mentioned above, plaid skirts do it for me, so I definitely feel warm and fuzzy toward Catholics, just not their hierarchy.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2012 01:15 PM (nEUpB)

162 The Papal Nuncio during the 80s who submitted names to the Vatican to be made bishops was lavender


dagney,

I admit I'm pretty ignorant when it comes to Catholic ideology. What does the above statement mean?

Posted by: mpfs at May 21, 2012 01:15 PM (iYbLN)

163 I think you can blame Vatican II.

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 01:16 PM (mFIbw)

164 mpfs

he was partial to gheys and probably ghey himself

Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 21, 2012 01:16 PM (Ho2rs)

165
brb, compromisin with the Catholics


Posted by: lolobama at May 21, 2012 01:16 PM (9M7e6)

166 OT but I'm seeing on twitter that the ignorant NC 'social studies' teacher was finally suspended.

But really, that's it??

1. She couldn't control her classroom. F-bombs abound.
2. She's a bully to her own students.
3. She's indoctrinating them
4. She's stifling free speech.
5. Of course most importantly she's dumber than cow shit. Slander? Arrestable crime?? Holy hell woman.

WTH is a suspension going to do?

Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 21, 2012 01:16 PM (pLTLS)

167 The simple solution is to transfer the African Bishops to America, and vice versa.Posted by: toby928©

That's actually what's happening right now by design. Secular Western countries are being "re-evangelized."

As an example, go check the staff list on the web site of St. Mary's Catholic Church in Alexandria, VA.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 01:17 PM (sbV1u)

168 You're serious, right? Catholics argue about everything and anything at the drop of a hat.Posted by: mrpTrue. But there are those Catholics who don't believe in the Magesterium.They call themselves "Catholic." I call them "Protestant."

You know what causes Baptist churches to split? When the pastor's wife and the deacons' wives start fighting over the color of the new carpet.

Posted by: alexthechick at May 21, 2012 01:17 PM (VtjlW)

169 The author of "The Amateur" is on Tammy Bruce's show now and he's very good.

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 21, 2012 01:17 PM (wcH9x)

170
New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie told Kentucky Republicans on Saturday
that President Barack Obama was “posing and preening” instead of working
to resolve pressing issues facing the country.

“He is the most ill-prepared person to assume the presidency in my
lifetime,” Christie told some 600 Kentucky Republicans at a Lexington
hotel. “This is a guy who literally is walking around in a dark room
trying to find the light switch of leadership.”


And remember when he couldn't open the door to the Oval Office??? LOL

Posted by: JustMe at May 21, 2012 01:17 PM (QbjWk)

171 >>3. She's indoctrinating them

That's what they hired her for.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at May 21, 2012 01:17 PM (/kI1Q)

172 94 74: On further review and research, I hereby stand corrected on this point. While there were likely individual bishops who did support OCare, you are quite correct that the main organization did, indeed, oppose that abomination.

...oh wait, only because it didn't carve out an exception for their concerns, not because it was an unconstitutional behemoth that would ultimately turn citizens into serfs. So while you have the technical point, the overall sentiment remains.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 12:57 PM (GBXon)

Not to get too technical here, but The Catholic Church doesn't usually support or condemn any particular political system or solution. The Church has rarely ever specifically condemned particular political ideologies (for example, Marxism and its various offshoots- fascism, communism, socialism have been condemned, but that's a rarity), and otherwise most political decisions- so long as they show the proper respect for the sanctity of human life which *is* one of the few non-negotiables for Catholics- are supposed to be left to the prudential judgment of individual groups or societies and their governing bodies.

So you can't say that because Notre Dame or some similar "Catholic" group likes or advocates for one thing or another that means The Church supports it. That would be like Bob Jones University deciding tomorrow that gay marriage is a-ok and then saying that the entire denomination it's associated with thinks it's alright, too. Catholic charities, hospitals, and universities may be founded by Catholics, they may even be founded by priests or religious, but they are not The Church- as in they cannot decide what is and what is not compatible with Catholicism. They cannot speak definitively on faith and morals.

And look, I think most of the Catholics on this site will freely admit that the American bishops have made a mess of things. But individual bishops, and even the USCCB does not constitute the opinion of The Church. They may be a group of bishops, and most of us (try to be) are respectful of their opinions, but that's just what they are: opinions. The USCCB is NOT the Magesterium of the Church.

Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker at May 21, 2012 01:17 PM (qFpRI)

173
What a lot of people don't realize is that the 12 disciples organized the very first workers union in history. Through collaborative bargaining, they were able to peacefully negotiate health care benefits (which covered reproductive coverage) as well as the very first defined benefit pension plan from Jesus. It's right there in the Bible.

Posted by: Pontiff Pious Pelosi I at May 21, 2012 01:18 PM (vJ9tV)

174 And remember when he couldn't open the door to the Oval Office??? LOL
Posted by: JustMe at May 21, 2012 01:17 PM (QbjWk)

He took care of that... he now has a "Key Czar"

Posted by: The Robot Devil at May 21, 2012 01:18 PM (DNTer)

175
It's not as if Obama didn't telegraph his intention to have the federal government interfere in exactly this kind of way.
Remember that radio interview during his state senator / 'law professor' days where he talked about "positive liberties" vs "negative liberties"? He lays it all out right there. "The Supreme Court never ventured into the issue of ... more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society. And to that extent, as radical as people try to characterize the Warren Court, it wasn't that radical. It didn't break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the Founding Fathers in the Constitution, at least as it's been interpreted, and the Warren Court interpreted it in the same way, that generally the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties - [it] says what the states can't do to you, what the federal government can't do to you, but it doesn't say what the state government or the federal government must do on your behalf."
http://tinyurl.com/6y6pol4

Yeah, those essential constraints are soooo 70s like the Warren Court. This whole contraception deal is of a piece with Obama's notion of the judiciary's needing to provide 'positive liberties' to us schlubs - especially us socially-downtrodden schlubs - who clearly need the government's help to exercise responsibility for matters as fundamental as reproduction. See: Fluke, S.

I have long thought thatthis interview Obama did crystallized how thoroughly steeped in radical political philosophy he is. And why the upcoming election is so profoundly important.

/rant

Posted by: crisis du jour at May 21, 2012 01:19 PM (J1eJz)

176 Behold: NY Jews not so crazy about SCOAMF:

http://tinyurl.com/csrz5j9

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 21, 2012 01:19 PM (UOM48)

177 And as I mentioned above, plaid skirts do it for me,
so I definitely feel warm and fuzzy toward Catholics, just not their
hierarchy.Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo


Glad to see you have your priorities straight.


Posted by: weft cut-loop at May 21, 2012 01:19 PM (ebPtk)

178 Although...what I meant was that the historic antipathy of the RCC
against the Jews does not make me feel warm and fuzzy and willing to
help when the Church is in trouble.


Eh, I never saw that here. But that may just be here, where both are in short supply to begin with, so there's no point being pricks about it.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 01:19 PM (GBXon)

179 Posted by: Pontiff Pious Pelosi I at May 21, 2012 01:18 PM (vJ9tV)


Cheer up Nancy! It's only crucifixion!

Posted by: The People's Judean Front at May 21, 2012 01:19 PM (sbV1u)

180 Is the judge going to decide or do we get to pick which commandments to
follow? I mean, I've got no problem with that graven images one but some
of the others cramp my style.


***

They can post the ones that coincide with secular law: Thous shall not kill, thou shall not steal, etc...

Anything with specific references to God would go.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 21, 2012 01:20 PM (piMMO)

181 Catholicism created Islam; started the Ku Klux Klan (but disguised themselves as Protestants to make them look bad); masterminded the 1917 Russian Revolution, the Great Depression, and the Holocaust; started World War I and World War II (both times on the German side); and masterminded the assasinations of U.S. Presidents Lincoln and Kennedy.

Posted by: Jack Y. Chick at May 21, 2012 01:20 PM (DNTer)

182 Posted by: Captain Hate at May 21, 2012 01:11 PM (wcH9x)

I have good friends who are priests and bishops and cardinals, so I know more about the workings of the Church than anyone here, especially you hateful fat, old women who are just jealous because I am young and thin and beautiful and have lots of men pursuing me...[$25, but I don't swallow. That's $5 extra]. I have a lunch date with the cardinal at St. Patrick's, so I'll post a link when I get back.


Posted by: curious? at May 21, 2012 01:20 PM (nEUpB)

183 >>as well as the very first defined benefit pension plan from Jesus.

Your Earthly body has to die before you can collect on it, though.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at May 21, 2012 01:20 PM (/kI1Q)

184 And as I mentioned above, plaid skirts do it for me,

so I definitely feel warm and fuzzy toward Catholics, just not their

hierarchy.


And they wonder why we won't do away with school uniforms...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 01:21 PM (GBXon)

185 The USCCB is NOT the Magesterium of the Church Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker at May 21, 2012 01:17 PM (qFpRI)


^^^This

Posted by: The People's Judean Front at May 21, 2012 01:21 PM (sbV1u)

186
Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 21, 2012 01:16 PM (pLTLS)

It was obvious that not one student in that class respected her. I think she set the tone herself when she called the kid "Darling" and some other condescending, unprofessional name. (Always best, as a teacher to just call a kid by their name). I also thought that her poor command of the English language may contribute to that disrespect. She sounded like an ignoramus (and that doesn't even take into account the content of what she was saying--she had very poor English skills--I know, proper grammar is racist, blah, blah, blah. I denounce myself!)

Posted by: runningrn at May 21, 2012 01:21 PM (vJ9tV)

187
But it sounds like that stupid teacher in NC is saying to her students that they should covet an ass.


Posted by: Soothsayer at May 21, 2012 01:21 PM (9M7e6)

188
My wires are crossed today.

bzzzzzt


Posted by: Soothsayer at May 21, 2012 01:22 PM (9M7e6)

189 177
And as I mentioned above, plaid skirts do it for me,

so I definitely feel warm and fuzzy toward Catholics, just not their

hierarchy.Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo



Girls here in our private protestant schools wear them as well.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 21, 2012 01:22 PM (UOM48)

190 If the Supremes overturn obamacare, this really will not matter will it?

Posted by: nevergiveup at May 21, 2012 01:22 PM (05RcU)

191 But it sounds like that stupid teacher in NC is saying to her students that they should covet an ass.Posted by: Soothsayer

They do. That's why she still has a teaching job.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 01:22 PM (sbV1u)

192
He took care of that... he now has a "Key Czar"


So-czar-key? Good thinghe's no longer the President of France and has some spare time on his hands...

Posted by: runningrn at May 21, 2012 01:24 PM (vJ9tV)

193 dagny

i blame vatican ii but i also blame my parents generation.....when i was a teen there was a priest in the parish next to us....he was a flaming homo!!!!! all the kids knew he was ghey all the kids would say fr. so and so is ghey and we would all be reprimanded by our parents.......get lectures on respecting the priests blah blah blah.....well....fr was a fag and was outed and was a molester....none of the adults saw it or wanted to see it......the kids knew....but know one addressed it....

my religion teacher in an affluent private catholis high school was an EX PRIEST... there were EX NUNS teaching us as well......THAT IS FORBIDDEN BY THE CHURCH.......ex religious can not teach in the schools!!!!! and they did not teach correct church doctrine! i tuned out my high school years completely.......i couldn't believe that the adults wouldn't protect us!!!! when they were paying for it!!

Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 21, 2012 01:24 PM (Ho2rs)

194 They do. That's why she still has a teaching job.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 01:22 PM (sbV1u)


She has a job, but I doubt she has ever even taught a ass to fart

Posted by: nevergiveup at May 21, 2012 01:24 PM (05RcU)

195 FB tries to rise, only down 8.65% now.

Posted by: toby928© at May 21, 2012 01:24 PM (NG097)

196 She has a job, but I doubt she has ever even taught a ass to fart

Posted by: nevergiveup


Glad I don't live in her district. I'd be in full China Syndrome meltdown mode right now if that were my kid.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 01:25 PM (sbV1u)

197 Snort:

>>j___eraghtyţ@j___eraghty
Newark Embassy wall has been breached by an unidentified 300 pound man armed with a fire extinguisher. #FreeCoreyBooker

Posted by: Mama AJ at May 21, 2012 01:25 PM (XdlcF)

198 162 The Vatican has a sort of ambassador who represents the Vatican and sends information "home" to Rome. The Papal nuncio that they had here for many years was a big fag. The Church got really faggy during that time because he selected queers to be named as Bishops. Where you get gay bishops you get liberalism. I also do not really blame the Bishops and cardinals during the 60s and 70s for moving priests around when they were found to be having sex with teenage boys because the American Psychiatric Association was telling them that they were reformable. We know now that they are not but at the time they thought that they could be "counseled" out of it. Hell, they even thought you could be counseled out of being gay. They've been trying to clean up the fagginess of the American church for years--changing directors at the Pink Palace Seminary and the lavender mafia etc. It is getting better but it was bad for a long time and it will take time to straighten it out. Benedict is fully aware and working on it.

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 01:25 PM (mFIbw)

199 FB tries to rise, only down 8.65% now.

Wooohooo!

Posted by: CNBC cheerleading squad at May 21, 2012 01:25 PM (9M7e6)

200 My all time favorite commandment has got to be "Thou Shalt Not Covet" for Big Gubamint has heard your cries and will redistribute your neighbor's house, your neighbor's cars andyour neighbor's wife...

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi Old Testament Scholar at May 21, 2012 01:26 PM (vJ9tV)

201 And as I mentioned above, plaid skirts do it for me

This is why wimmens Field Hockey and Lacrosse are bigger draws than their male counterparts.

Posted by: garrett at May 21, 2012 01:26 PM (3x6vk)

202 Glad I don't live in her district. I'd be in full China Syndrome meltdown mode right now if that were my kid.
Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 01:25 PM (sbV1u)


you and me both

Posted by: nevergiveup at May 21, 2012 01:26 PM (05RcU)

203 Posted by: phoenixgirl at May 21, 2012 01:14 PM (Ho2rs)

We heretics don't have the latest info.

Please explain.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2012 01:26 PM (nEUpB)

204 172: Speaking as one of those resident Catholics, you've not said anything I wasn't aware of. The problem is that whatever the Church does or does not do officially, a great deal of its influence is informal. As a result, there's always a bit of a blur on the line between individual opinion and speaking ex cathedra on these issues, and I suspect there's been something of a breakdown in discipline in that regard. As such, the Church may or may not support something, but its clergy and bishops sure seem willing to weigh in on a regular basis. And if you think that doesn't have a heft of its own, you're just being naive.

This is the same as any other organization--what an individual does while identifying as a part of its ranks reflects upon that group. It's unavoidable. Most secular organizations get this, it simply boggles my mind that the Church doesn't seem to understand to this day.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 01:26 PM (GBXon)

205 146 136

That would be correct Jumbo Shrimp. It is mostly the self-loathing East/West Coast Jew. They drive me nuts.
Posted by: mpfs at May 21, 2012 01:11 PM (iYbLN)

Liberals are liberals first.


Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at May 21, 2012 01:26 PM (DGIjM)

206 Posted by: Jane D'oh at May 21, 2012 01:22 PM (UOM4

Got any pictures?

Posted by: Typical disgusting Moron at May 21, 2012 01:27 PM (nEUpB)

207 It's almost as if there is a constitutional question here.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at May 21, 2012 01:27 PM (B+qrE)

208 However, it is doing it's best to do what it thinks that Jesus would want.

Dagny, all well and good for the Church to do it through its own works and its bully pulpit to its faithful.

Another to provide moral support by which the State through coercive means forces people to pay for such things. Social Gospel again.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at May 21, 2012 01:28 PM (kqqGm)

209 The whole world run through FB, it was an inspiration of the Anti-Christ.

Posted by: Clemenza at May 21, 2012 01:28 PM (fCSfn)

210 Jack Y Chick - I thought the JOOOOSSSS, with the exception of the KKK, did all of that. Whew, what a relief!

Posted by: thunderb at May 21, 2012 01:29 PM (Dnbau)

211 152 And Georgetown having Sebelius speak there a few days ago was sacrilege.
Posted by: Marco Rubio at May 21, 2012 12:36 PM (piMMO)

Jesuits are now tools of satan. The Church needs to purge them.
Posted by: Hydrocarbon Liberation Front at May 21, 2012 01:13 PM (NVu2l)

Need to add an "again" to the end of that last sentence. The Jesuits have been suppressed on and off throughout church history for various reasons. It's looking like it needs to happen again and soon, for their own good!

Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker at May 21, 2012 01:29 PM (qFpRI)

212 It was obvious that not one student in that class respected her. I think
she set the tone herself when she called the kid "Darling

^^^

Oh is that what that was?? I thought she was saying 'dawg'.

I denounce myself and I'll go sit in the corner.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at May 21, 2012 01:30 PM (pLTLS)

213 You will find a boatload of social justice crap in the "The Catechism of the Catholic Church." Mutually exclusive positions and goals are presented. The worker is entitled to the fruits of his labors and yet the government is responsible for providing food and shelter and education and development, and...

Posted by: Jimbo at May 21, 2012 01:30 PM (O3R/2)

214 Another to provide moral support by which the State
through coercive means forces people to pay for such things. Social
Gospel again.Posted by: John P. Squibob


Concur. And that's changing now. Brick by brick.

I think it's a good time to be Catholic, if for no other reason that I now see fewer and fewer of those damn 1970s era felt "Alleluia" banners hanging in churches.

Unless you're in California....they're just beyond redemption out there.


Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 01:30 PM (sbV1u)

215 @205: Liberalism is like Islam - it governs all aspects of your life, and if you don't let it you're an infidel.

(This is reason #37 why it's dumb that libs are all gung-ho about Islam).

Posted by: Ian S. at May 21, 2012 01:31 PM (tqwMN)

216 They should do to the Jesuits what they did to the Templars.


Posted by: Jimbo at May 21, 2012 01:31 PM (O3R/2)

217 >>However, it is doing it's best to do what it thinks that Jesus would want.

My Lutheran Bibles don't have the books where Jesus exhorts his followers to demand Caesar confiscate the wages of their neighbors and use it to give them (or even "the poor") free stuff.

Posted by: HeatherRadish™ at May 21, 2012 01:31 PM (/kI1Q)

218 A man testified Monday that he saw Roger Clemens at a 1998 Jose Canseco pool party that the former pitcher has denied attending, which is one of the false statements prosecutors allege Clemens made in his 2008 congressional deposition.

Prosecutors showed jurors a photo of the then 11-year-old Alexander Lowrey on the deck of a pool, next to a smiling Clemens who is standing in the shallow end of the water.

The former pitcher's hair is bleach-blonde, which is how Lowrey said he recalled it.


??? I hate Clemens. I think he is a lying steroid using piece of shit. But what is this shit doing in Federal Court and on my dime!

Posted by: nevergiveup at May 21, 2012 01:31 PM (05RcU)

219
In other news, Hawaii has responded to AZ's request for proof on SCoaMF being an American citizen. They certified and mailed a copy of the BC and apologized for the delay.
Just kidding, they said something to the effect of "screw off".

Posted by: Jimmah at May 21, 2012 01:31 PM (UpwlP)

220 Jack Y Chick

I'd pay to have the Obamacare bill reinterpreted in the form of a Jack Chick tract.

And re: the Jesuits, having studied their history, I think it's safe to say they come by their bad rep honestly. At their best they've been the point men for the Church in scores of areas, but at their worst, they have been veritable loose canons in need of reigning in. Badly.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 01:31 PM (GBXon)

221 210
Jack Y Chick - I thought the JOOOOSSSS, with the exception of the KKK, did all of that. Whew, what a relief!

Posted by: thunderb


We've been busy!

Posted by: mpfs, Member Since 1961 Jooish Cabal at May 21, 2012 01:32 PM (iYbLN)

222 In other news, Hawaii has responded to AZ's request for proof on SCoaMF
being an American citizen. They certified and mailed a copy of the BC
and apologized for the delay.
Just kidding, they said something to the effect of "screw off".


Link?

Posted by: Alex at May 21, 2012 01:33 PM (EnhSM)

223 Let's go down by the river and sit under that tree.

Posted by: Gen. Stonewall Jackson at May 21, 2012 01:33 PM (bK81x)

224 Posted by: Jack Y. Chick at May 21, 2012 01:20 PM (DNTer)

Where are you presently buying your headgear?

Posted by: Quality Discount Tinfoil Hats at May 21, 2012 01:33 PM (QKKT0)

225 "Of the ones that go to Mass regularly, over 80% are conservative.
Posted by: Jimbo "

I had once taught at a Catholic school. Most of the parents were conservative or at least voted republican.

Posted by: nerdygirl at May 21, 2012 01:33 PM (TvodA)

226 I am eagerly awaiting the spin my Democrat in-laws (who are Catholic) come up with if they vote for O'Barfy again. They live in Utah and had traditionally voted Republican when my father-in-law was alive. Now they are anti-Mormon everything in politics. I think they probably refer to us as the redneck Republican branch of the family, and we do not care one bit.

Here's hoping Barry's scandals continue and actually make CNN so my MIL will know it is real! Also hoping the Occupy crowd continues violence and grossness, as niece's liberal boyfriend half-wit thinks this "movement" is the most important "movement" of all mankind. Let's just say that dinner was one to remember.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Lithuanian by mistake at May 21, 2012 01:33 PM (baL2B)

227 FB tries to rise, only down 8.65% now.
Posted by: toby928© at May 21, 2012 01:24 PM (NG097)

-----------------------------------------

I said last Friday that the IPO should have been fixed much lower. But, that's just me. I know a guy that bought a hundred shares. I told him that he'd soon regret it. He's a liberal too, so there aren't any tears for him.

Posted by: Soona at May 21, 2012 01:34 PM (4BLwo)

228 Mutually exclusive positions and goals are
presented. The worker is entitled to the fruits of his labors and yet
the government is responsible for providing food and shelter and
education and development, and...Posted by: Jimbo


I'm not sure how those positions are mutually exclusive.

The worker is entitled to the fruits = you get a paycheck for a day's work. Otherwise, that's slavery

"The government is responsible for providing food and shelter and
education and development..."

You mean we DON'T have a societal interest in an educated citizenry?? So you're advocating an increase in the sub-literate, drooling moron population?

You're selectively reading the Catechism. You left out the part about subsidiarity.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 01:34 PM (sbV1u)

229 Strike the tent.

Posted by: Generl Robert E. Lee at May 21, 2012 01:34 PM (NG097)

230 190
If the Supremes overturn obamacare, this really will not matter will it?

Posted by: nevergiveup at May 21, 2012 01:22 PM (05RcU)

IF. I'm not as convinced as others seem to be that ObamaCare will be struck down, or even just the individual mandate.

Posted by: joncelli, heartless Con and all around unpleasant guy at May 21, 2012 01:35 PM (RD7QR)

231 ??? I hate Clemens. I think he is a lying steroid using piece of shit.
But what is this shit doing in Federal Court and on my dime!



You can thank W for that, he's the one that turned steroids in baseball into a federal issue, literally.

Posted by: booger at May 21, 2012 01:35 PM (HI6wa)

232 I've never been a birther, but da Zero is slowly bringing me around.

Posted by: maddogg at May 21, 2012 01:35 PM (OlN4e)

233 Dagny, all well and good for the Church to do it through its own works and its bully pulpit to its faithful.

Another
to provide moral support by which the State through coercive means
forces people to pay for such things. Social Gospel again.


Posted by: John P. Squibob at May 21, 2012 01:28 PM (kqqGm)

I agree. I won't give the Church dime one outside of tuition because of that and they know it. Gotta tell ya though, they see "homeless" and they want to do everything they can to help them including pushing the state. They don't look at the mechanics of the whole thing--it's almost a gospel knee-jerk reaction.

You can't get too mad at them though. They spend HUGE amounts of money every month making people's rent and mortgage payments when they're in deep trouble. Hospitals bills, funeral expenses, etc. You have no idea the good that they do. It's really more than you can grasp. On top of that they are there when you need them. Or at least mine are.

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 01:36 PM (mFIbw)

234
http://scoamf.us/tG
The Hawaii attorney general’s office has reportedly told Bennett that there are steps he needs to take in order to confirm President Obama’s birth records.
Those steps include Bennett proving that he legitimately needs confirmation in order to update the records at his office.
Bennett recently said in an interview with KFYI that he had asked Hawaii to further verify the President’s birth.
Bennett said he would consider removing President Obama’s name from the ballot during this year’s presidential election if Hawaii didn’t fulfill his request.

Posted by: Jimmah at May 21, 2012 01:36 PM (UpwlP)

235 My "Catholic" father (who watches nothing but MSNBC) now hates all organized religion due to the Catholic backlash against Obamacare mandates. He's become hard to talk to lately.

Posted by: Pyrocles at May 21, 2012 01:36 PM (cv5Iw)

236 It's the dumbfuck Catholic Latinos that vote in lockstep with Dems. They're looking for some gov't handouts for sure. I think white Catholics voted only 40% for Obama in '08. Way too high considering his stance on abortion but better than their minority counterparts.

And I con't to denounce myself.

Posted by: laceyunderalls typing from the time-out corner at May 21, 2012 01:36 PM (pLTLS)

237 But when the govt. taxes the shit out of everyone?


Posted by: Jimbo at May 21, 2012 01:36 PM (O3R/2)

238 It's Monday and I haven't had a full caffeine blast so it's hard for me to follow all this Catholic stuff. All I really know is my old high school boyfriend's mother used to tell me my people killed Christ.

That relationship was doomed from the beginning.

Posted by: mpfs, Member Since 1961 Jooish Cabal at May 21, 2012 01:36 PM (iYbLN)

239 A Pact with the Devil (a deal with the Devil or a Faustian bargain), is an agreement with Evil, in the form of the Devil, with the paradoxical intention of achieving a higher Good that is otherwise obstructed. The nature of an agreement is a risky accommodation, so at the crux of objections to such a thing are questions–what has the person making the agreement traded to the Devil; can the person avoid being trapped or corrupted; does the agreement strengthen the Devil; is the greater Good compromised, and still unachievable?

Posted by: E at May 21, 2012 01:38 PM (JjREa)

240 You can thank W for that, he's the one that turned steroids in baseball into a federal issue, literally.
Posted by: booger at May 21, 2012 01:35 PM (HI6wa)

W? If byW you mean President Bush that's bullshit. I am directly blaming the asshole prosecutors who apparently have nothing better to do than waste my money on this crap

Posted by: nevergiveup at May 21, 2012 01:38 PM (05RcU)

241 Since most of the churches are so damned fond of the nanny state, I like to consider my taxes tithes. Saves money.

Posted by: maddogg at May 21, 2012 01:38 PM (OlN4e)

242 Here is the list of who filed suit. I hope there is more.. my Diocese isnt there.

1. D.D.C. Lawsuit
o Archdiocese of Washington
o Consortium of Catholic Academies
o Archbishop Carroll High School
o Catholic Charities of D.C.
o The Catholic University of America

2. E.D.N.Y. Lawsuit
o Diocese of Rockville Centre
o Catholic Health Services of Long Island
o Catholic Charities of Rockville Centre
o Archdiocese of N.Y.
o ArchCare

3. W.D.Pa. (Erie Div.) Lawsuit
o Diocese of Erie
o St. Martin Center
o Prince of Peace Center

4. W.D.Pa. (Pitt. Div.) Lawsuit
o Diocese of Pittsburgh
o Catholic Charities of Diocese of Pittsburgh
o Catholic Cemeteries Association of Diocese of Pittsburgh

5. N.D.Tex. (Dallas Div.) Lawsuit
o Diocese of Dallas

6. N.D.Tex. (Fort Worth Div.) Lawsuit
o Diocese of Fort Worth

7. S.D. Ohio (Columbus Div.) Lawsuit
o Franciscan University of Steubenville
o Michigan Catholic Conference

8. S.D.Miss. (Gulfport Div.) Lawsuit
o Diocese of Jackson
o Catholic Charities of Jackson
o Vicksburg Catholic School
o St. Joseph’s Catholic School
o Diocese of Biloxi
o De l’Epee Deaf Center Inc.
o Catholic Social & Community Services Inc.
o Resurrection Catholic School
o Sacred Heart Catholic School
o St. Dominic Health Services

9. N.D.Ind. (South Bend Div.) Lawsuit
o The University of Notre Dame

10. N.D. Ind. (Fort Wayne Div.) Lawsuit
o Diocese of Fort Wayne-South Bend
o Catholic Charities of Fort Wayne-South Bend
o St. Anne Home
o Franciscan Alliance
o Our Sunday Visitor
o University of St. Francis

11. N.D.Ill. Lawsuit
o Diocese of Joliet
o Catholic Charities of Joliet
o Diocese of Springfield
o Catholic Charities of Springfield

12. E.D.Mo. (St. Louis Div.)
o Archdiocese of St. Louis
o Catholic Charities of St. Louis

TOTAL: 12 lawsuits, 43 entities.

Posted by: Jumbo Shrimp at May 21, 2012 01:38 PM (DGIjM)

243 I hate Clemens. I think he is a lying steroid using piece of shit. But what is this shit doing in Federal Court and on my dime!

Posted by: nevergiveup at May 21, 2012 01:31 PM (05RcU)


^^This. I hate fat Rodger and Barroid as much as is humanly possible; but this suit is a complete sham and an insult to the priorities of the country.

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 21, 2012 01:38 PM (wcH9x)

244 All I really know is my old high school boyfriend's mother used to tell me my people killed Christ.

She only meant it as constructive criticism.

Posted by: Cicero at May 21, 2012 01:38 PM (QKKT0)

245 I'm available to do an exorcism both on Barry Obama and Sandra Fluke.

Posted by: Father Fritz at May 21, 2012 01:39 PM (/9E6Z)

246 213
You will find a boatload of social justice crap in the "The Catechism of
the Catholic Church." Mutually exclusive positions and goals are
presented. The worker is entitled to the fruits of his labors and yet
the government is responsible for providing food and shelter and
education and development, and...



Posted by: Jimbo at May 21, 2012 01:30 PM (O3R/2)

Which paragraph? (They're numbered, btw) Need a link?

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 01:39 PM (mFIbw)

247 that should be Roidger

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 21, 2012 01:39 PM (wcH9x)

248 Switching topics--everyone always presumed the attack on Mormonism would focus on perceived weirdness in the teachings.

I suspected it would be the bloody history, particularly the 'Utah War'.

WaPo just proved me right.

http://tinyurl.com/c5rs833

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 01:39 PM (GBXon)

249 239

Are you talking about Keanu Reeves acting career?

Posted by: mpfs, Member Since 1961 Jooish Cabal at May 21, 2012 01:40 PM (iYbLN)

250 Subsidiarity doesn't give my county the right to tax me into penury for the welfare and education of my neighbors.

It was my parent's responsibility to educate me, not the state's.


Posted by: Jimbo at May 21, 2012 01:40 PM (O3R/2)

251 Jesus came to die so I don't see the big deal. He could have stopped it if he wanted to so I wouldn't know why you'd still be pissed at the jews over it.

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 01:40 PM (mFIbw)

252 In response to shibumi above, I've said this before, but the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod is standing with the Catholic church publicly on this issue. The president of church body was one of those who testified before Congress. We also provide health care coverage for our church workers, so this will affect us too.

Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at May 21, 2012 01:41 PM (VENdg)

253 O/T Barack's campaign cons cavitating?

"The pro-Obama’s Super Pac Priorities USA raised a pitiful $1.6 million in April, bringing in some $3 million less than the pro-Romney Restore Our Future, Politico reports."

non- Politico link in name.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at May 21, 2012 01:41 PM (ebPtk)

254 Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 01:39 PM (GBXon)

I suspect there is no companion piece on the Mau Mau Uprising.

Posted by: Waterhouse at May 21, 2012 01:41 PM (VY+UF)

255 Dharun Ravi was sentenced to 30 days in jail, given probation for 3 years, forced to pay $10,000 to anti-bullying program, and forced into "counseling."

http://cbsloc.al/KsrByk

Posted by: The Political Hat at May 21, 2012 01:41 PM (XvHmy)

256 Strike a Pose.
There's nothing to it.
Vogue.

Posted by: Barack Obama - The First Gay President at May 21, 2012 01:42 PM (3x6vk)

257 I've heard that "Jews killed Jesus" Bullshit. Romans? Romans? Anybody ever mention the Romans? I heard they were involved, somehow.

Posted by: maddogg at May 21, 2012 01:42 PM (OlN4e)

258 255 Are they going to deport him?

Posted by: Infidel at May 21, 2012 01:42 PM (O/fK8)

259 My Church has been my political opponent, subversively as along as I can remember, and openly for at least 10 years. They've worshiped at the alter of the entitlement state. And despite being warned that, that very state's goal was to supplant God, and that the egalitarianism and entitlements preached by the state were contrary to the teachings of the Church, they went along anyway and turned the social teachings of distributionism, into the social justice of re-distributionism; and in doing so moved us closer to totalitarianism.

And now, only now, while starring at the blood signature on the contract, and being told by the instrument holder that the bill is now due, do they protest that they are losing their soul. But even in doing so they refuse to recant even a portion of the mistakes made my the church in supporting the progressive super state?

You think the wages of your sin are problematic US Catholic Church? Repent; perform an act of contrition, then maybe we can talk about forgiveness.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Troll Hunter! at May 21, 2012 01:42 PM (0q2P7)

260 All I really know is my old high school boyfriend's mother used to tell me my people killed Christ.

She only meant it as constructive criticism.


Posted by: Cicero

She always would look at me as if I can horns and a tail.

I can't help it that I've got big horns.

Posted by: mpfs, Member Since 1961 Jooish Cabal at May 21, 2012 01:43 PM (iYbLN)

261 W? If byW you mean President Bush that's bullshit. I am directly blaming
the asshole prosecutors who apparently have nothing better to do than
waste my money on this crap


Yeah, i do mean W and it's not bullshit, steroids was a baseball issue until Bush decided to make it a federal issue. I can still remember at the time how everyone was asking why he was getting involved but he kept it up and eventually congress got involved and now it's at this ridiculous point.

Posted by: booger at May 21, 2012 01:43 PM (HI6wa)

262 This is the same as any other organization--what an individual does while identifying as a part of its ranks reflects upon that group. It's unavoidable. Most secular organizations get this, it simply boggles my mind that the Church doesn't seem to understand to this day.
Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 01:26 PM (GBXon)

No, you're right about that. I pray that we start taking it more seriously when we allow groups/organizations to use the title Catholic in its name. Most people, even within the Church itself don't understand the difference. Which for Catholics is either a result poor catechesis or selective ignorance. I keep Pope Benedict (who is awesome!) in my prayers daily. He's doing an outstanding job of house cleaning, but it's going to be slow-going by necessity. I hate that it's gotten so out of control to begin with.

I really do get frustrated though when people equate what's going on at Notre Dame or Georgetown to Catholicism as a whole because you don't see that same treatment for places like Liberty U or Bob Jones. You don't hear people suggesting that what those groups do is representative of all of the Southern Baptists or all of Protestatism. It would just be nice if we'd get the same treatment.

Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker at May 21, 2012 01:43 PM (qFpRI)

263 Strike a Pose.

There's nothing to it.

Vogue.

^^^

This better be a girl that socked this otherwise one of you morons has some *serious* explaining to do!

Posted by: laceyunderalls typing from the time-out corner at May 21, 2012 01:43 PM (pLTLS)

264
Verily, verily, I say unto you. Jesus wept.
Then said Peter, "Master, glad tidings! I have scored Teh Pill for Mary Magdalene. Rejoice!"
And they went together and supped and made merry, for women's reproductive health had been made whole.

Posted by: From the Pelosi Pentateuch, Chapter 1, Verse 5 at May 21, 2012 01:43 PM (vJ9tV)

265 You might want to look up what subsidiarity means, Jimbo.

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 01:44 PM (mFIbw)

266 I can't help it that I've got big horns.
Posted by: mpfs, Member Since 1961 Jooish Cabal at May 21, 2012 01:43 PM (iYbLN) <<<<<<<A picture is worth.........well, you know........

Posted by: maddogg at May 21, 2012 01:44 PM (OlN4e)

267 WaPo just proved me right.

http://tinyurl.com/c5rs833


Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 01:39 PM (GBXon)


Let me get this straight: We can't talk about Jeremiah Wright because that was too long ago and the JEF and Rev are still alive; but let's bring up something that happened over 150 years ago as pertinent to the current time? These editors obviously work hard for their money.

Posted by: Captain Hate at May 21, 2012 01:45 PM (wcH9x)

268 255 Dharun Ravi was sentenced to 30 days in jail, given probation for 3 years, forced to pay $10,000 to anti-bullying program, and forced into "counseling."

http://cbsloc.al/KsrByk
Posted by: The Political Hat at May 21, 2012 01:41 PM (XvHmy)

Almost the same as the plea bargain he was offered before the trial started. They should boot his ass back to India... if only for costing the NJ taxpayers so much damn money.

Posted by: The Robot Devil at May 21, 2012 01:45 PM (DNTer)

269 I can't help it that I've got big horns.


Posted by: mpfs, Member Since 1961 Jooish Cabal at May 21, 2012 01:43 PM (iYbLN)

Go on...

Posted by: Cicero, Retiring to My Bunk at May 21, 2012 01:45 PM (QKKT0)

270 I am loving all the last words by Confederate Generals, by the way.

Fast forward to January 20, 2013:
Barry's last words on Marine One, for his last ride to Chicago, after limply waving and weeping, and wailing all the way up the steps under military escort, will be:
"I am Buhrock, there must be a mistake. I needed four more years." Mooch's last words will be, "Shut-up, fool, and get my wine before I sit on your sorry loser self. Oh, and the divorce papers are waiting for your signature, cry-baby."

Two-hundred forty-three days until they are swept back to the Chicago cesspool.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Lithuanian by mistake at May 21, 2012 01:46 PM (baL2B)

271 Romans? Romans? Anybody ever mention the Romans? I heard they were involved, somehow.
Posted by: maddogg at May 21, 2012 01:42 PM (OlN4e)


Yeah. What have the Romans done for us?

Posted by: LGoPs at May 21, 2012 01:46 PM (+Uv5V)

272 Who will rid me of these damned priests!!??!!11!!

Posted by: The littl shyning man at May 21, 2012 01:46 PM (qfdnV)

273 Yeah, i do mean W and it's not bullshit, steroids was a baseball issue until Bush decided to make it a federal issue. I can still remember at the time how everyone was asking why he was getting involved but he kept it up and eventually congress got involved and now it's at this ridiculous point.
Posted by: booger at May 21, 2012 01:43 PM (HI6wa)

When you get a copy of that memo from President Bush telling the Prosecutors to waste my money to go after Clemens get back to me. I think it is in the same file as the one where President Bush talks about the shooters on the grassy knoll.

Posted by: nevergiveup at May 21, 2012 01:47 PM (05RcU)

274 Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 01:40 PM (mFIbw)

I have heard arguments that God had the Jews kill Jesus as punishment for their recalcitrance in accepting his word.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2012 01:47 PM (nEUpB)

275 Romans? Henry VIII cut off Anne Bolyn's head not the guy with the ax, he just had the job.

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 01:48 PM (mFIbw)

276 Which paragraph? (They're numbered, btw) Need a link?




Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 01:39 PM (mFIbw)

1908
for starters.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 21, 2012 01:48 PM (O3R/2)

277 For the record, Dagney et al, Jews did'nt kill Jesus, the Romans did. Crucifixtion was their method of execution. They were the ones in power. The Romans, you know the ones who had a strangle-hold on the popehood for centuries.

Posted by: thunderb at May 21, 2012 01:49 PM (Dnbau)

278 A Pact with the Devil (a deal with the Devil or a Faustian bargain), is an agreement with Evil, in the form of the Devil, with the paradoxical intention of achieving a higher Good that is otherwise obstructed. The nature of an agreement is a risky accommodation, so at the crux of objections to such a thing are questions–what has the person making the agreement traded to the Devil; can the person avoid being trapped or corrupted; does the agreement strengthen the Devil; is the greater Good compromised, and still unachievable?
Posted by: E at May 21, 2012 01:38 PM (JjREa)

----------------------------------------------------

It was the churches that administered to the poor before the "Great Society". It worked then and it can work again.Church charity organizations used to be the backbone of giving in the US.

Posted by: Soona at May 21, 2012 01:49 PM (4BLwo)

279 "This man wanting to be like obama"

A teachable moment?

Posted by: nevergiveup at May 21, 2012 01:50 PM (05RcU)

280 Our sin killed Jesus. We are responsible, now, and in the past, everyone who sins.

On topic, though, good to see the Roman Catholic leadership actually showing signs of intelligence here. They were way too much in the tank for Obama in 2008.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 21, 2012 01:50 PM (r4wIV)

281 Posted by: The Robot Devil at May 21, 2012 01:45 PM (DNTer)

Bullshit.

What he did warranted a suspension from Rutgers and no more. Tyler Clementi was a troubled young man, but was ultimately responsible for his own fate.

Criminalizing boorish behavior, and persecuting Ravi simply because he was Indian and was an easy target is disgusting.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2012 01:50 PM (nEUpB)

282 I've heard that "Jews killed Jesus" Bullshit. Romans? Romans? Anybody
ever mention the Romans? I heard they were involved, somehow.


Pilate had the sense to kick it back to the local courts to handle, at least until the trumped up treason charge came into the equation. Even then...well, the phrase 'wash one's hands of it' is in the language for a reason.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 01:50 PM (GBXon)

283 WHooHooo: Mississippi is sticking it to them. Good for them. They are like Texas and have no fear. Good for you, Mississippi and others who joined this lawsuit.


Posted by: ChristyBlinky, Lithuanian by mistake at May 21, 2012 01:51 PM (baL2B)

284 274 That's ridiculous. They had to be the ones because that's what was prefigured in the Old Testament. He has to assume the sins of his people and be killed by them. The jews were acting in line with providence. They were made scapegoats later (heh) by those with a childlike understanding of the events and by those, of course, who owed the jews money (see: today, europe).

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 01:51 PM (mFIbw)

285 Romans? Henry VIII cut off Anne Bolyn's head not the guy with the ax, he just had the job.

Sword. It was a sword. Only English pig-dogs used axes.

Posted by: Anne Boleyn's Expensive Professional French Executioner at May 21, 2012 01:51 PM (QKKT0)

286 Oops. Posted on wrong comment.

Posted by: Soona at May 21, 2012 01:51 PM (4BLwo)

287 "The government is responsible for providing food and shelter and

education and development..."

The Catechism of the Catholic Church applies to the faithful throughout the world.

There are governments, believe it or not, that withhold food, medicine, and other basic necessities from citizens in order to reduce a recalcitrant society to servitude.

Posted by: mrp at May 21, 2012 01:51 PM (HjPtV)

288 Pope Benedict's declaration is Jews were "not in any way inherently and collectively responsible" for Jesus' death"

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu praised the Pope's statement.

Posted by: The Robot Devil at May 21, 2012 01:52 PM (DNTer)

289 >>>Henry VIII cut off Anne Bolyn's head not the guy with the ax, he just had the job.

Anne requested and was granted execution by a swordsman; not by the axe.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Troll Hunter! at May 21, 2012 01:52 PM (0q2P7)

290 275Romans? Henry VIII cut off Anne Bolyn's head not the guy with the ax, he just had the job.
So, your suggesting the Romans were just following Jewish orders.

Posted by: maddogg at May 21, 2012 01:52 PM (OlN4e)

291 Anne requested and was granted execution by a swordsman; not by the axe.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose Troll Hunter! at May 21, 2012 01:52 PM (0q2P7

Didn't the swordsman miss and need a second stroke? I"m sure that was pleasant for Anne?

Posted by: nevergiveup at May 21, 2012 01:53 PM (05RcU)

292 Let me get this straight: We can't talk about Jeremiah Wright because
that was too long ago and the JEF and Rev are still alive; but let's
bring up something that happened over 150 years ago as pertinent to the
current time?


Did you check that date? How long before the 'troofers' grab on to that, do you think?

I've seen this coming for years. I hope my friends with the LDS are ready for it.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 01:53 PM (GBXon)

293 What he did warranted a suspension from Rutgers and no more. Tyler Clementi was a troubled young man, but was ultimately responsible for his own fate.

Criminalizing boorish behavior, and persecuting Ravi simply because he was Indian and was an easy target is disgusting.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2012 01:50 PM (nEUpB)

Ain't what I said, I think there is an untold story about how his parents were coping with his being gay. I'm just pissed that we spent millions of dollars on a BS trial

Posted by: The Robot Devil at May 21, 2012 01:53 PM (DNTer)

294 A Pact with the Devil (a deal with the Devil or a Faustian bargain), is an agreement with Evil, in the form of the Devil, with the paradoxical intention of achieving a higher Good that is otherwise obstructed. The nature of an agreement is a risky accommodation, so at the crux of objections to such a thing are questions–what has the person making the agreement traded to the Devil; can the person avoid being trapped or corrupted; does the agreement strengthen the Devil; is the greater Good compromised, and still unachievable? Posted by: E at May 21, 2012 01:38 PM (JjREa)
----------------------------------------------------

Doesn't the Bible teach that the only oaths that are good in the eyes of God, are oath's given in the name of God.

Posted by: Soona at May 21, 2012 01:53 PM (4BLwo)

295 Grew up protestant, but always respected the Catholic church. Can any of the Catholic posters tell me why the Church does not apply ex-communication to those purportedly Catholic politicians who support and vote for abortion? If I were Pope (and you may all be thankful that I'm not), my first order of business would be purging the rolls of all such 'Catholics'.

Posted by: Victrola at May 21, 2012 01:54 PM (X3Y9c)

296 Something few people understand is that churches still, everyday, all across America do tremendous good working hard to help people in their community and state and nation and worldwide through outreach, medical care, disaster relief, orphanages, schools, clinics, hospitals, and more. We just don't advertise, toot our own horn, or run in front of every camera we see looking for attention.

Because its about God's glory, not ours. It is about doing right, not being known.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 21, 2012 01:54 PM (r4wIV)

297 When you get a copy of that memo from President Bush telling the
Prosecutors to waste my money to go after Clemens get back to me.




Baseball is a better game, a truer game, than it was a decade ago, and Bush and a handful of fellow gutsy politiciansare a big part of the reason. - http://tinyurl.com/22kb89h


Posted by: booger at May 21, 2012 01:55 PM (HI6wa)

298 Can any of the Catholic posters tell me why the Church does not apply
ex-communication to those purportedly Catholic politicians who support
and vote for abortion?


A lot of us wonder about that, too...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 01:56 PM (GBXon)

299 Will no one rid me of these troublesome priests?

Posted by: Obama II at May 21, 2012 01:56 PM (X3Y9c)

300 I can't help it that I've got big horns. Posted by: mpfs

No honey, you can't.

Thank God for that.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 01:56 PM (sbV1u)

301 Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 01:51 PM (mFIbw)

Of course it is. But you Catholics (present company excepted) know less about your own religion than even the Jews...and that's saying a lot!

FTR the argument was made by a Mexican Catholic. My guess is that his catechism classes were not intellectually rigorous.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2012 01:56 PM (nEUpB)

302 The New Testament actually advises against oaths; it teaches you should just keep your word without requiring oaths, not that they're wrong. You should just say "I will do this" not "By the third and most potent testicle of Odin, I shall get this done!!!!"

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 21, 2012 01:57 PM (r4wIV)

303 Can any of the Catholic posters tell me why the Church does not apply

ex-communication to those purportedly Catholic politicians who support

and vote for abortion?


Technically, they don't have to. Those politicians incur a latae sententiae excommunication.

No trial or hearing required. Boom! You're done.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 01:58 PM (sbV1u)

304 Can any of the Catholic posters tell me why the Church does not apply
ex-communication to those purportedly Catholic politicians who support
and vote for abortion?


A big reason is that it would be seen as interference by a foreign government in US Politics. Doesn't mean it's true, just that's how it would be perceived.

Posted by: Alex at May 21, 2012 01:58 PM (EnhSM)

305 What Christopher Taylor says,

Churches do good work. The government needs to get off their backs. They just don't like the competition and the lack of control.

Separation of church and state was to protect the churches from the government as much as to protect the government from the church.

Posted by: thunderb at May 21, 2012 01:58 PM (Dnbau)

306 "Technically, they don't have to. Those politicians incur a latae sententiae excommunication."

And yet despite this, they keep going to and are given Mass as if they have not been excommunicated...

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 21, 2012 01:59 PM (r4wIV)

307 It is about doing right, not being known.

Word.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 01:59 PM (GBXon)

308 Posted by: The Robot Devil at May 21, 2012 01:53 PM (DNTer)

Ah, I see your point. Agreed that it should never have been prosecuted, and the multi-million dollar cost should be borne by the Gay community for pushing so hard for this.

Ravi was a stupid kid who behaved badly. But sending him back to India seems a bit harsh.

Obviously Clementi had significant issues, and whatever his reasons for killing himself, Ravi shouldn't have been held accountable.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2012 02:00 PM (nEUpB)

309 Of course it is. But you Catholics (present company excepted) know less
about your own religion than even the Jews...and that's saying a lot!


I dearly wish I could dispute that...

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 02:00 PM (GBXon)

310 306 "Technically, they don't have to. Those politicians incur a latae sententiae excommunication."

And yet despite this, they keep going to and are given Mass as if they have not been excommunicated...
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 21, 2012 01:59 PM (r4wIV)

Then they are piling sin upon sin, if they receive communion.

Posted by: The Robot Devil at May 21, 2012 02:00 PM (DNTer)

311 295 Grew up protestant, but always respected the Catholic church. Can any of the Catholic posters tell me why the Church does not apply ex-communication to those purportedly Catholic politicians who support and vote for abortion? If I were Pope (and you may all be thankful that I'm not), my first order of business would be purging the rolls of all such 'Catholics'.
Posted by: Victrola at May 21, 2012 01:54 PM (X3Y9c)

Technically, they excommunicated themselves cooperating with and/ or fascilitating evil. Book, bell, and candle excommunications are just a public way showing what is already occurred. And I would also say that there are a few public "Catholics" that have been very publicly denied communion. Kathleen Sebelius has been forbidden from communion in her home diocese as well as thatif D.C. Itis my understanding that there is something similar for Pelosi, but that it hasn't been made as public. The latter is hearsay, though, so grain of salt and all.

Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker at May 21, 2012 02:01 PM (qFpRI)

312 Right about now someone at the White House wants to strangle the Dynamic Duo of Jarrett/Sibelius.

What a PR nightmare for the dems. The Catholic Bishops have already vowed civil disobedience to the contraception mandate. So what will happen the first time IRS agents or whatever government flunkys show up to shutter Our Lady of Grace's historical doors? The Pope will get involved, condemning the persecution of Catholics in the USA, add us to the list of those in Nigeria, Iraq, etc.
Nice way to step in it gals. Shoulda listened to Daley/Biden. Yes, even Slow Joe got this one right.

Posted by: kallisto at May 21, 2012 02:01 PM (jm/9g)

313 Ravi was a stupid kid who behaved badly. But sending him back to India seems a bit harsh.

Obviously Clementi had significant issues, and whatever his reasons for killing himself, Ravi shouldn't have been held accountable.
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2012 02:00 PM (nEUpB)

From my understanding, it the sentence was more than a year, the INS would look into the case. He won't (or should) be deported with a 3-month sentence.

Posted by: The Robot Devil at May 21, 2012 02:03 PM (DNTer)

314 And yet despite this, they keep going to and are given Mass as if they have not been excommunicated...Posted by: Christopher Taylor

I know. I know. You're exactly right, but it does not change the fact that they are excommunicated. In fact, of those politicians still receive communion anyway the sacrament does no good, and is a sin in itself.

That's why I am a big fan of Canon 915. It imposes a restriction on the person providing the communion, not on the offending communicant.

However, in order to use that Canon, the Local Ordinary does have to provide some kind of guidance to the rest of the Diocese in order to have it enforced.

And that's where(some) Bishops fall down right there.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 02:03 PM (sbV1u)

315 June 8th is Stand Up for Religious Freedom Day

http://www.dosafl.com/NewsBriefs.asp?ArticleID=1013

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 21, 2012 02:03 PM (piMMO)

316 Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 02:00 PM (GBXon)

How do you think I feel.

"What's Hanukkah?"

It's the Jewish Christmas! We get lots of gifts!"

One reason why I drink.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2012 02:03 PM (nEUpB)

317 Ravi grew up near Princeton. He is a Jersey kid. What he did was repulsive and intrusive.

But suicide was something Tyler Clementi did, not Ravi. If Clementi hadn't committed suicide, in a public way, we would never have heard of Ravi. the prosecution was in response to the death, nothing else.

Posted by: thunderb at May 21, 2012 02:03 PM (Dnbau)

318 "Then they are piling sin upon sin, if they receive communion. "
I don't dispute that, but the problem is the church is still giving them communion and treating them as full members. And that's what we're concerned with; sort of like the "hey, you molested that teenager, lets move you to another parish" instead of defrocking the priest. It just frustrates me deeply that as honorable an institution as the Roman Catholic Church whose self designation as the defender of faith for over a thousand years is no exaggeration would keep doing this kind of thing.

The problem isn't that there is no official ceremony of excommunication, its that the church isn't even acting like there's a problem.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 21, 2012 02:04 PM (r4wIV)

319 The New Testament actually advises against oaths; it teaches you should just keep your word without requiring oaths, not that they're wrong. You should just say "I will do this" not "By the third and most potent testicle of Odin, I shall get this done!!!!"
Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 21, 2012 01:57 PM (r4wIV)

-------------------------------------------------

So, in other words: Be where you said you'd be, at the time you said you'd be there, and do the things you said you'd do. (as long as the purpose is good)

It's a principal that enjoys quite the success, especially with employment.

Posted by: Soona at May 21, 2012 02:05 PM (4BLwo)

320 @295 -

Formal excommunication in modern times is reserved for those Catholic clerics who are in a position to lead the flock astray by challenging Catholic dogma, for instance a priest or bishop who publicly denies the divinity of Jesus, calls him just another prophet, that type of offense. And who stays on that course despite repeated warnings from higher-ups.

Posted by: kallisto at May 21, 2012 02:05 PM (jm/9g)

321 You grasp that 1908 is a direct slap at communism?





1908 Second, the common good requires the social well-being and development of
the group itself. Development is the epitome of all social duties.
Certainly, it is the proper function of authority to arbitrate, in the
name of the common good, between various particular interests; but it
should make accessible to each what is needed to lead a truly human
life: food, clothing, health, work, education and culture, suitable
information, the right to establish a family, and so on.


This comes directly from Gaudium et Spes which was one of the 4 Apostolic Constitutions of the Church resulting from Vatican II. GS was intended to define the position of the Church on the matters of economic and political philosophy for the entire world (In the midst of the cold war and the cultural revolution).
I don't see this paragraph as particularly stateist. It seems religiously vague to me.





Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 02:06 PM (mFIbw)

322 And while we're on the subject of religious freedom.... I present (again) this epic take-down of Kathleen Sebelius.

http://bit.ly/JeoVUg

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 21, 2012 02:06 PM (piMMO)

323 Has Father Pflager been excommunicated?

Posted by: thunderb at May 21, 2012 02:06 PM (Dnbau)

324 Posted by: thunderb at May 21, 2012 02:03 PM (Dnbau)

I agree that the prosecution was in response to Tyler's suicide, but I disagree that Ravi' behavior was "repulsive."

19 year old college students do this crap all the time. It is boorish and intrusive and terminally tacky, but it won't stop because of this trial.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2012 02:07 PM (nEUpB)

325 The problem isn't that there is no official ceremony of excommunication, its that the church isn't even acting like there's a problem.Posted by: Christopher Taylor

The principle of subsidiarity again. You made a blanket statement, but that's not true in all Dioceses at all times. Some Bishops take this very seriously - go ask Kathleen Sebelius' bishop in Kansas.

Yes, under what I think is a misguided principle of Christian charity, some Bishops hold out in the hope that the politician will reconcile himself. (History proves that' hope is in vain....but whatever....)



Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 02:08 PM (sbV1u)

326 CBD, agreed. I just hope nobody ever films my kid and any of the idiotic things he does. Gawd - I hope he doesn't film himself!

Posted by: thunderb at May 21, 2012 02:08 PM (Dnbau)

327 Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 21, 2012 02:04 PM (r4wIV)

Well, in fairness (and as Dagny, I believe pointed out up thread) at the point in time when the bishops were moving offending priests around, it was on the advice of psychologists- specifically the APA- that they did that instead of de-fricking them. The belief at the time was that they could be cured or reformed or some such. That certainly doesn't excuse things, but at least puts it into perspective.

Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker at May 21, 2012 02:08 PM (qFpRI)

328
I, too, would love to see many people excommunicated for accepting the Body and Blood of Christ falsely.

My friends are all under instruction to sit on the aisle and trip my stepmother as she walks to the altar.

Until then, take heart in the fact that Nancy Pelosi et al are de facto excommunicated anyway and the Body and Blood do nothing to nourish their shrunken, black souls.

Posted by: Justamom at May 21, 2012 02:09 PM (Sptt8)

329 But suicide was something Tyler Clementi did, not Ravi. If Clementi hadn't committed suicide, in a public way, we would never have heard of Ravi. the prosecution was in response to the death, nothing else.
Posted by: thunderb at May 21, 2012 02:03 PM (Dnbau)

It is a very sad case, all around.

Posted by: The Robot Devil at May 21, 2012 02:09 PM (DNTer)

330 Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 02:06 PM (mFIbw)

Interesting choice of words: "...make accessible..."

Not "provide" or "guarantee."

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2012 02:09 PM (nEUpB)

331 Unless those politicians are going to confession every week, then they excommunicated themselves.

Next step, the Church should move to self insure and sell group policies to members. This would give them standinc to oppose every Ocare regulation.

Posted by: Jean at May 21, 2012 02:09 PM (6ziMD)

332 I think part of the problem the Roman Catholic Church has is that many branches of it (particularly in the Americas) are so radical or disdainful of the official church doctrine that they make the whole denomination look poor as a result. If they'd just stick closer to what their catechism and church fathers taught, they'd be far better off but they add communism and modern radical chic to the mix and end up betraying everything they claim to believe in.

And since the Church leadership is thousands of miles away with little leverage over these congregations - and often needing them for money and support - little gets done about idiots and freaks in these areas.

That's what I see happening anyway. As a Calvinist I have problems with the Roman Catholic Church's theology on justification by faith, but other than that they're pretty dead on - and more honest about what they believe than most mainline evangelical churches in America at least.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 21, 2012 02:10 PM (r4wIV)

333 Posted by: thunderb at May 21, 2012 02:08 PM (Dnbau)

Check his Facebook page!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2012 02:10 PM (nEUpB)

334 Too late to get me back in the congregation.
As far as I am concerned, my family and I are nowEX-Catholic.

Posted by: Cluebat from Exodar at May 21, 2012 02:11 PM (BuYeH)

335 This word "cool". I do not think it means what you think it means:

Friend --



Meeting the President of the United States is an incredible thing.



Meeting two presidents at the same time? Now, that's almost ridiculously cool.

If you pitch in $3 or whatever you can today, you'll be automatically entered to join President Obama and former President Clinton in New York City on June 4th--Airfare and hotel taken care of.

These two presidents know better than anyone in the world that grassroots supporters are how you win elections.



That's why President Obama always wants to be able to meet you at events
like this, and why President Clinton jumped at the chance.



This promises to be one amazing evening. Imagine how great it would be
to be a fly on the wall when Presidents Obama and Clinton get together.
Now imagine getting to be part of the conversation.

Enter today and you could win two tickets to New York to be there with them:

Seriously, good luck.



Messina



Jim Messina

Campaign Manager

Obama for America


Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 21, 2012 02:11 PM (piMMO)

336 Gah! De-frocking. Not de-fricking. Autocorrect hates me.

Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker at May 21, 2012 02:11 PM (qFpRI)

337 CBD I do, I do, and tumbler, and twitter, and his texts. I am a one woman Staasi.

Posted by: thunderb at May 21, 2012 02:12 PM (Dnbau)

338 Anne Boleyn, on her knees in the straw, head on the block, anticipating the blow, kept trying to look around to the left to see the sword. The executioner distracted her with a move, then struck from the other side, beheading her with one stroke.

She had been blindfolded out of deference. Often, in public executions, the not-blindfolded head was held up to face the crowd, not so the crowd could see the face, but to show the crowd to the just-beheaded, still blinking, face of the condemned.

Imagine that. The last thing you see are the horrified faces of that crowd, aghast.

Posted by: The littl shyning man at May 21, 2012 02:12 PM (PH+2B)

339 If you pitch in $3 or whatever you can today,
you'll be automatically entered to join President Obama and former
President Clinton in New York City on June 4th--Airfare and hotel taken
care of.


They left out the part where Clinton climbs into bed with you at 3 am.

Minor detail, I know.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 02:12 PM (sbV1u)

340 "19 year old college students do this crap all the time. It is boorish and intrusive and terminally tacky, but it won't stop because of this trial."

Exactly, the extreme reaction to this is largely based on ignorance of the events and a sort of "me too" attitude of not wanting to be outside the norm.

"Yes, under what I think is a misguided principle of Christian charity, some Bishops hold out in the hope that the politician will reconcile himself. (History proves that' hope is in vain....but whatever....)"

Seen that happen in my church, where wisdom is supplanted by a false sort of love and compassion. Sometimes - perhaps often - loving someone means doing things they won't like or that they will consider hurtful.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 21, 2012 02:13 PM (r4wIV)

341 They left out the part where Clinton climbs into bed with you at 3 am.

Minor detail, I know.


****

If a deal seems too good to be true, it probably is.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 21, 2012 02:14 PM (piMMO)

342 Subsidiarity means that the most local institution to deal with an issue is best.

I have a big, big problem with the CCC's use of the term "Society".

"Society" is a fiction. As Margaret Thatcher said, we are individuals. There is no such thing as Society. There are many societies in our lives; much like concentric circles, if you will. Immediate Family. Immediate neighbors. Close friends. School. Work. Church. Town. AoSHQ. We do not interact with everyone everywhere. We interact with just a relative few.

The CCC wants to pin all these responsibilities on "Society" without delimiting the boundaries between the Church and the Government.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 21, 2012 02:14 PM (O3R/2)

343 I don't think I could sit at a table with Clinton and Obama without some head smacking going on. Not an attack just some of that old fashioned "one upside the head" discipline that parents used to give.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 21, 2012 02:14 PM (r4wIV)

344 I don't think I could sit at a table with Clinton and Obama without some
head smacking going on. Not an attack just some of that old fashioned
"one upside the head" discipline that parents used to give.


****


Can you imagine the level of smug in that room?

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 21, 2012 02:15 PM (piMMO)

345 Gah! De-frocking. Not de-fricking. Autocorrect hates me.
Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker at May 21, 2012 02:11 PM (qFpRI)

-------------------------------------------------

I thought in the context it was used, de-fricking worked.

Posted by: Soona at May 21, 2012 02:15 PM (4BLwo)

346 The way it was explained to me (and I argued, believe me) is that at any time someone like John Kerry can go to confession, be truly penitent, have a purpose of amendment, and a real desire to not be such a piece of shit fucktard baby killer voter, confess, do penance and then take communion. The priest/extraordinary minister would have to know that they had not done that in the recent past to deny them communion. (So I say, well the bishop needs to call these turds and tell them that if they are in communion with the church they need to let the priest/bishop know ahead of time so that they can receive communion).

I got a great deal of priest looking into the distance (which is what they do when they can't say).

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 02:15 PM (mFIbw)

347 Seen that happen in my church, where wisdom is supplanted by a false sort of love and compassion. Sometimes - perhaps often - loving someone means doing things they won't like or that they will consider hurtful.Posted by: Christopher Taylor

Spot on. Which is why I was happy to see the Pope issue a statement lately about Catholics also having a duty to "fraternal correction."

Of course, I haven't quite mastered his meaning yet because I keep starting these "fraternal correction" talks with, "OK, listen up here, asshole...."

Am I wrong?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 02:16 PM (sbV1u)

348 Weasel words. What does "make accessible" mean? Stand back and let free enterprise do its job?


Posted by: Jimbo at May 21, 2012 02:17 PM (O3R/2)

349 Can someone please clarify for me? Is that a pic on Drudge of Obama with football in his hand?

Please don't tell me he's going to start doing the first kickoff of the season.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 21, 2012 02:19 PM (piMMO)

350 Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 02:15 PM (mFIbw)

Honestly, I know I don't really *know* someone else's heart, but I can't see how they could possibly truly believe in the Real Presence and continue to spout all their pro-abort bullshit. I am absolutely terrified about recieving unworthily. I don't want to ever profane Jesus in that way.

Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker at May 21, 2012 02:19 PM (qFpRI)

351 Spot on. Which is why I was happy to see the Pope issue a statement lately about Catholics also having a duty to "fraternal correction."

Of course, I haven't quite mastered his meaning yet because I keep starting these "fraternal correction" talks with, "OK, listen up here, asshole...."

Am I wrong?
Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 02:16 PM (

This is me to a T. Which is probably why I'm in confessioon so often!

Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker at May 21, 2012 02:21 PM (qFpRI)

352 342 The Church is universal. It has to call each country's system something. There are not separate catechisms for the United States, China, the aboriginal Faulkland Islanders, and New Moonbase Alpha. The catechism has to be universal. It has to say that it knows there are governments and the governments should not be such dicks that they enslave the population and society--not just the individual is important for mankind. Of course there is "society",
"The social contract exists so that everyone doesn't have to squat in
the dust holding a spear to protect his woman and his meat all day every
day. It does not exist so that the government can take your spear, your
meat, and your woman because it knows better what to do with them."

But it still exists or you'd be in the woods with a spear.

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 02:21 PM (mFIbw)

353 The CCC wants to pin all these responsibilities on
"Society" without delimiting the boundaries between the Church and the
Government. Posted by: Jimbo


Again, I think you're being overly selective here, although I totally agree with where you're coming from. The principle of subsidiarity works hand in hand with the principle of solidarity - and solidarity is where (I think) you're coming from. Solidarity means we work together - in those smaller groups - to the common good. It is not a synonym for "society."

Maybe it helps to remember that the Church has to formulate rules for the entire Church which ranges from well-developed Western countries, to spots on the earth so remote they aren't even on maps. The rules have to work everywhere for everyone all the time. (Which also helps to explain their vagueness in some instances).


Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 02:21 PM (sbV1u)

354 Too much of it is vague.

A lay person should be able to read the CCC and not be confused and not require an in-depth understanding of history. Just give me the teachings.

I used to be an engineer. I used to write Functional Specifications. They defined external interfaces and what the product was going to do. The CCC is great for teaching some things and fails utterly in the area of "Social Justice."


Posted by: Jimbo at May 21, 2012 02:22 PM (O3R/2)

355 Oh please, Mandy. The libtards don't believe in the real presence. How could they?

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 02:23 PM (mFIbw)

356 This is me to a T. Which is probably why I'm in confessioon so often!

Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker


Weekly for me. Unfortunately....

My wife tells me it should be daily for me though. I oughta smack her....

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 02:23 PM (sbV1u)

357 It is vague. But it was written by committee---so there you go. Just be glad it doesn't look like a camel.

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 02:26 PM (mFIbw)

358 I don't think I could sit at a table with Clinton and Obama without some head smacking going on. Not an attack just some of that old fashioned "one upside the head" discipline that parents used to give.

I'm seeing a Moe Howard moment.

Posted by: toby928© at May 21, 2012 02:28 PM (NG097)

359 Posted by: Jimbo at May 21, 2012 02:22 PM (O3R/2)

Ok, but the Catechism isn't supposed to be a political systems manual. It's there to outline as concretely as possible the essentials of the Catholic faith (which is the bulk of the first half of the book) and then to give general principles of morality.

The Church is trying to let people alone to work within their own systems of government to solve their own problems how they see fit, not institute one solution for the world. It has to be sort-of vague. Which is the point. It's general moral principles. So, a man is entitled to compensation for his labor but he shouldn't step over an orphan in the process. How you and the government you live under (and in our case, the government we choose) implement those principles is open for discussion and prudential judgement of those parties involved.

Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker at May 21, 2012 02:30 PM (qFpRI)

360 How do you think I feel.

"What's Hanukkah?"

It's the Jewish Christmas! We get lots of gifts!"

One reason why I drink.




Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at May 21, 2012 02:03 PM (nEUpB)


Meh. Hannukah is a minor holiday, anyway. It isn't even really a holiday, if you want to be technical.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at May 21, 2012 02:30 PM (X3lox)

361 355 Oh please, Mandy. The libtards don't believe in the real presence. How could they?
Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 02:23 PM (mFIbw)

Like I said, I don't see how they can. And there are some of those folks, like Pelosi and especially Sebelius, who come across as just evil.

Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker at May 21, 2012 02:31 PM (qFpRI)

362 So, Are the Catholic Bishops going to fight in court for the right of the individual?

Posted by: Jimbo at May 21, 2012 02:33 PM (O3R/2)

363 Sacrilege is a little-known sin.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 21, 2012 02:34 PM (O3R/2)

364 Like I said, I don't see how they can. And there are
some of those folks, like Pelosi and especially Sebelius, who come
across as just evil.

Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker


You ever notice how it's only Catholic Dem politicians who read only the parts of the Bible they like? Jesus could have said, "Hey think about me when you sit down for dinner next time, OK?"

He didn't. He said, "This is my body."

Posted by: Sean Bannion at May 21, 2012 02:35 PM (sbV1u)

365 In all their statements the rights of individual Catholics (or whoever) to not be forced to violate their religious consciences has been included in their list of concerns. The statement from my own bishop mentioned specifically a concern for our individual rights in regards to the mandate.

Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker at May 21, 2012 02:35 PM (qFpRI)

366 or rather, little-understood sin.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 21, 2012 02:35 PM (O3R/2)

367 Mandy: When God cursed the woman he pointed out that there will always be a struggle between the seed of Satan and the seed of the Woman, and that's what we see happening every day. Sometimes people are aware of what side they're on, sometimes they aren't. And until Christ returns in glory to redeem creation, that fight never ends. That's why I think dying in old age is not such a horrible thing; you finally get to rest from the battle.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 21, 2012 02:35 PM (r4wIV)

368 Exactly, Sean.

Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker at May 21, 2012 02:35 PM (qFpRI)

369 366 or rather, little-understood sin.

Posted by: Jimbo at May 21, 2012 02:35 PM (O3R/2)

More likely little-regarded. But most sin isn't taken very seriously nowadays anyway. Sadly.

Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker at May 21, 2012 02:38 PM (qFpRI)

370 "But most sin isn't taken very seriously nowadays anyway."

At least some of the blame for that has to rest on Christians, who have for decades been downplaying sin as "mistakes" and focusing more on theraputic preaching and teaching than the gospel and the Word of God. Its rare to hear a sermon on the wrath of God and the need for salvation because of sin ANYWHERE these days. And when you do, people tend to mock and hate it.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 21, 2012 02:39 PM (r4wIV)

371 More likely little-regarded. But most sin isn't taken very seriously nowadays anyway. Sadly.

Posted by: Mandy P., long-time lurker at May 21, 2012 02:38 PM (qFpRI)


The effects from eating the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil are only temporary.

Posted by: ThePrimordialOrderedPair at May 21, 2012 02:39 PM (X3lox)

372 The most important thing about being an individual is not being murdered in utero. Achieving consciousness is a good start.


And I have no doubt that Pelosi, Sebelius et al are purely and truly and completely evil.

Posted by: Dagny at May 21, 2012 02:41 PM (mFIbw)

373 Neidermeyer, did you get your faucet situation fixed? Hope so.

Posted by: Jaimo at May 21, 2012 02:49 PM (9U1OG)

374 Meh. Hannukah is a minor holiday, anyway. It isn't even really a holiday, if you want to be technical.

The irony being that Christmas was considered minor until fairly historically recently, too--Easter is the big, faith-defining holiday, after all. But a minor tradition regarding gifts got seized upon by commercial interests...but that's a rant for another season, I suppose.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 02:53 PM (GBXon)

375 Neidermeyer, did you get your faucet situation fixed? Hope so.


****

The plumber will be here in about an hour.

thanks for asking.

Posted by: Niedermeyer's Dead Horse at May 21, 2012 02:53 PM (piMMO)

376 Chicago Way, meet Vatican Way.

Posted by: MostlyRight at May 21, 2012 02:54 PM (ZG8Ti)

377 A Socialist can read the CCC and, because of the vague language and weasel words, conclude that it IS Society's responsibility to provide cradle to grave Social Justice.

You think Libtards have a hard time misconstruing the Constitution to get it to mean what they want. The CCC is a libtards dream come true.




Posted by: Jimbo at May 21, 2012 02:56 PM (O3R/2)

378 Its not like the pope didn't recently give a pretty socialist statement either. That doesn't help matters, and I fear he's the last really conservative pope we're going to see in my lifetime at least.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 21, 2012 02:58 PM (r4wIV)

379 Christmas is just like Saturnalia, except that you can't bang the slave girl on the couch during the party.


Posted by: Jimbo at May 21, 2012 03:02 PM (O3R/2)

380 The Catholic Church has in the past and does today exist in places with governments that are hostile to the existence of the Catholic Church and have tried to destroy the Church or bring it under control. Poland under the Communists is an example and Cuba is such a place today.

With the Obama administration order that Catholic organizations must pay for contraception and abortions, the Church hierarchy has come to the conclusion that the present US government is hostile to the Catholic Church. Like the Cuban government.

The message that the Bishops are now putting out is that Catholics now have to choose between the anti-Catholic government and the Catholic Church. It is no surprise that the MSM are not going to tell you that is what is going on.

Posted by: Hutton Gibson, Mel's dad at May 21, 2012 03:12 PM (P/coe)

381 While we're on the subject of Christian theology: Can a Muslim be baptized as a Christian, join a Christian church and still remain a Muslim?

The Catholic Church says no but Jeremiah Wright says yes.

How about your church?

Posted by: Hutton Gibson, Mel's dad at May 21, 2012 03:29 PM (P/coe)

382 Christmas is just like Saturnalia, except that you can't bang the slave girl on the couch during the party.

You clearly don't go to the right Christmas parties. Though the office parties sure aren't what they used to be, granted.

Posted by: Brother Cavil, New Caprica City DMV at May 21, 2012 03:33 PM (GBXon)

383 Granted, Obama is being a DICKtator on this issue, but honestly I am confused about how and when employers received the medical records of their employees?

I have no idea how The Church negotiates with insurance companies regarding coverage for their employees, and I don't think government has any business interfering with that relationship, but based upon my experience with health insurance, the company itself never entered into the equation on what coverage we chose for ourselves.

So, what political nuance am I missing here, other than this being another effort to push Obamacare into full effect, without congressional approval.

Posted by: Feynmangroupie at May 21, 2012 03:39 PM (oI744)

384 "The Catholic Church says no but Jeremiah Wright says yes."

I'm not ready to take Reverend Wright's word on anything.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at May 21, 2012 03:57 PM (r4wIV)

385 I have no idea how The Church negotiates with insurance companies regarding coverage for their employees
----
That's patently obvious.


And I love how SFGoth can always be relied upon to provide the oh-so-vital "I'm mad at the RC church" angle.

Posted by: Y-not at May 21, 2012 04:09 PM (5H6zj)

386 Y-not,


You don't have to be a snot about it, I wasn't trying to be sarcastic.

I'm just confused by how it is different from any other organization. As I said, I don't think the government has any right to interfere with the contractual agreements between private entities, period.

I don't have a problem with people who have a set of principles, not wanting to be forced to pay extra to violate those principles. I just didn't know that companies/non-profits negotiated coverage down to that finite of detail.

Posted by: Feynmangroupie at May 21, 2012 04:51 PM (oI744)

387 BOOM! That's the sound of that big Preference Cascade breaking.

Here's why our Alinsky President is failing: a community organizer unites a bunch of different groups who have at least one goal in common, and then they agitate for that one goal. Here, Preezy is bullying different groups who have nothing in common to agitate for a single goal, like free contraception for all. Ain't gonna happen, without force anyway.

Thank the Lord we still have the Courts.

Posted by: PJ at May 21, 2012 04:55 PM (DQHjw)

388 an any of the Catholic posters tell me why the Church does not apply ex-communication to those purportedly Catholic politicians who support and vote for abortion?

Well they didn't ex-communicate any of the bastards who were raping children.

On account of this thread I spent a few hours googling that 'lavender mafia' thing, and holy shit. I had no idea it was that bad.

It seems most catholic priests are probably worse than Pelosi is in terms of being actually catholic.

Posted by: Entropy at May 21, 2012 06:01 PM (Ci0JG)

389 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at May 21, 2012 07:51 PM (7W3wI)

390 @ 388 "It seems most catholic priests are probably worse than Pelosi is in terms of being actually catholic."
That's a pretty big brush you are painting with there. Do you have any verifiable numbers/percentages/etc to back that up? In my math "most" would certainly be above 50% I do not accept that type of math without proof. Please reference number 8, "You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor".

Posted by: political correctness czar at May 21, 2012 08:41 PM (H67mZ)

391 That's a pretty big brush you are painting with there.

tinyurl.com/4dfvje

It's a pretty big hat.

tinyurl.com/5ooqb6

Numbers/percentages? Stuff like this:

tinyurl.com/7udks3h

FL: tinyurl.com/8ymjjvz

PA: tinyurl.com/3lme573

IL: tinyurl.com/7g8rjqf

OH: tinyurl.com/7gjgzhp

etc. etc.

Posted by: Entropy at May 21, 2012 10:41 PM (Ci0JG)

392
Posted by: The People's Judean Front at May 21, 2012 01:21 PM (sbV1u)

[p]
Splitters!

Posted by: The People's Front of Judea at May 22, 2012 02:40 AM (/Biaa)

393 Simple solution: Don't hire women!

Posted by: burt at May 22, 2012 09:24 AM (OzqQM)






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