Is Ron Paul's Only Hope a Brokered Convention?

Alarming:

A prominent friend told me some weeks ago that he noticed an odd thing. In his state, several people who have been successful in getting themselves known as very probably Mitt Romney delegates for the Republican National Convention are also his supporters. And they are not just my friends’ supporters, they are also long time staunch Ron Paul supporters.

Why then would they, long time staunch Ron Paul supporters, align this year with Mitt Romney? He made calls and talked to friends in other states. All of them saw the same thing happening — long time Dr. Paul supporters working to become delegates to the convention pledging to support Mitt Romney and others.

If the field stays fractured at this level, with only a few people, but each getting delegates enough to prevent the front runner from an outright majority, there will be a second vote at the Republican National Convention.

Delegates are only locked in for their candidate during the first vote. After the first vote, they can vote for whoever they want. So if Mitt Romney is unable to clear an outright majority on the first ballot, suddenly he could see some of his delegates turn on him — turn and go back to Ron Paul.

It is an ingenious strategy premised on a convention where no one gets majority support early. It plays well to a primary calendar where the delegates are first awarded proportionally. Who knows if it is a campaign strategy or just his volunteers, but the Paul campaign has been active now for four years trying to take over local parties.

It may pay off if the GOP doesn’t unite around a candidate soon.

This aspect of the Paul agitation -- seeking power without going through the bothersome step of ever securing permission -- infuriates me. It's always these games with rigging polls, caucuses, straw polls, etc.

There's an arrogant contempt of democracy here.

Posted by: Ace at 03:03 PM



Comments

1
redsate pumps out a lotta crap, i noticed

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:05 PM (G/zuv)

2 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable tyrant.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Has Joined Team Meteor at January 20, 2012 03:05 PM (8y9MW)

3 Ron Paul as the GOP nominee?

When it comes to fucking up a sure thing, the GOP's ingenuity is truly awe-inspiring.

Posted by: al-Cicero, Tea Party Jihadist at January 20, 2012 03:05 PM (QKKT0)

4
Honestly, I my first thought was that this came from Zerohedge or that even more foolish website Business Insider.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:06 PM (G/zuv)

5 Assuming this is true (and it's a pretty big bite to swallow), I'd almost be glad to see this.

Oh, it would suck for 4 more years, most likely, but it would be the final nail in the coffin for the Republican Party, and we could finally get even the big donors to realize we need to found an actual Conservative Party.

I say "almost be glad" because those next 4 years might be the end, not only of the Republican Party, but of the nation more generally.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Has Joined Team Meteor at January 20, 2012 03:07 PM (8y9MW)

6 You betcha.

Posted by: Anony at January 20, 2012 03:07 PM (Yigvc)

7 ORDER ON MOTION TO QUASH SUBPOENAS
Defendant, President Barack Obama, a candidate seeking the Democratic nomination for the
office of the President of the United States, has filed a motion to quash the subpoena compelling
his attendance at the hearing on January 26, 2012.
In support of his motion, Defendant argues that "if enforced, [the subpoena] requires him to
interrupt duties as President of the United States" to attend a hearing in Atlanta, Georgia.
However, Defendant fails to provide any legal authority to support his motion to quash the
subpoena to attend. Defendant's motion suggests that no President should be compelled to
attend a Court hearing. This may be correct. But Defendant has failed to enlighten the Court
with any legal authority. Specifically, Defendant has failed to cite to any legal authority
evidencing why his attendance is "unreasonable or oppressive, or that the testimony... [is]
irrelevant, immaterial, or cumulative and unnecessary to a party's preparation or presentation at
the hearing, or that basic fairness dictates that the subpoena should not be enforced." Ga. Comp.
R. Regs. r. 616-1-2-.19(5).
Defendant further alludes to a defect in service of the subpoena. However, the Court's rules
provide for service of a subpoena upon a party, by serving the party's counsel of record. Ga.
Comp. R. Regs. r. 616-1-2-.19(4). Thus, the argument regarding service is without merit.
Accordingly, Defendant's motion to quash is denied.
SO ORDERED, this the 20th day of January, 2012.

Posted by: MICHAEL M. MALIHI at January 20, 2012 03:09 PM (e8kgV)

8 Fuck Ron Paul.
And fuck his autistic-can-someone-tell-me-what-a-vagina-feels-like supporters.

Posted by: Clubber Lang at January 20, 2012 03:09 PM (QcFbt)

9 Second ballot I'd expect to see more votes for christie and ryan, ect and not ron paul

Posted by: nevergiveup at January 20, 2012 03:10 PM (eCnLg)

10 This is actually all part of Sarah Palin's unconventional campaign strategy. Brilliant!

Posted by: Hotair Commenter at January 20, 2012 03:10 PM (98dPH)

11 Paulnuts are absolute starkers and yes there are moles. Culty nuts are culty.

Posted by: SarahW at January 20, 2012 03:11 PM (LYwCh)

12
If it comes to this, then the RNC needs to make a decision.

They must ban Ron Paul from the convention.

We've tolerated this old fool long enough. The RNC should've put an end to this guy's affiliation in 2008.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:11 PM (G/zuv)

13 Unite around a candidate soon? Why? This is bullshit. There is no need to do any such thing. This is why the whole who's on first, what's on second and I don't know's on third aspect of the primaries pisses me off so much. Too many people get no say in who the candidate is to be.

Posted by: huerfano at January 20, 2012 03:11 PM (lXi+d)

14 Um.... that ain't gonna happen.
But whatever.
I am fucking terrified of Snufalupagus, myself. Some lady Michelle Bachmann met in Iowa told me that Snufalupagus was actually a vampiric puppet elephant and then he breaks into peoples homes at night and drains the blood from their lifeless husks.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 03:14 PM (mf67L)

15
Some of us are trying to win goddam elections.

The rest of you are trying to, I don't know what the fick you're trying to do, really.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:14 PM (G/zuv)

16 While the rest of you are shuffling along on your Gramscian march to the death camps I'll be dancing around the outer barbed-wire perimeter, laughing and flinging my poo at the poor suckers inside who didn't want to listen to my warnings and scampering away before the guards can catch me. Can't catch me, can't catch me! Can't make me shut up, either! No you can't! No you can't! Last Free Man Standing!

Why? !!!RON PAUL!!!, that's why.

Posted by: Densetropy at January 20, 2012 03:14 PM (DnS8M)

17 Ron Paul would lose a general election in a landslide.Think Mondale.

Posted by: steevy at January 20, 2012 03:15 PM (7W3wI)

18 No delegate is going to go with Ron Paul. They're all establishment people. Same goes for Palin' chances, etc, etc. We're getting Romney out of a brokered convention, period.

Unless they tap McCain again.

Posted by: Truman North at January 20, 2012 03:15 PM (I2LwF)

19 Vote Ron Paul, because just fuck it. That's why.

Posted by: cynical and apathetic at January 20, 2012 03:15 PM (5wsU9)

20 This aspect of the Paul agitation -- seeking power without going through
the bothersome step of ever securing permission -- infuriates me.

I hate to do it, but I have to step in for Paul at this point. The establishment has been using the party rules and political game playing to screw the base for decades. A candidate willing to play their little game is definitely in the turnabout is fair play category. Besides Ace, despite all of your hem-hawing, you are forgetting about the super delegates. The establishment safeguard. And if their is any danger of Paul winning a brokered convention, the super delegates will make sure someone gets a majority (Mitt) in the first round. So despite some clever wheeling and dealing. Paul's little game playing is almost certainly going to get him nothing, because the Republican party establishment will, how do you say, seek power without going through the bothersome step of ever securing permission?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at January 20, 2012 03:16 PM (0q2P7)

21 Got a buddy who reads ZeroHedge. It has turned his head into crazy, paranoia Ron Paul nutjob land.

He's still sane enough he realizes what it's doing to him. But two years of him sending me link to zerohedge gold-bug, jew-baiting, paranoia is getting so fucking old. Literally dozens of imminent Israel-Iran war link. Dozens of total-implosion-of-the-world posts in the next 48 hours posts.

And most have an undercurrent hinting about the Jews controlling everything behind the scenes.

My friend doesn't go there for that, but it's seeping in. He think he's getting insider "smart money" info on the finance industry so he can make better investments.

But if you spend all day reading dark conspiracies, the world starts to look like a dark conspiracy.

Posted by: Clubber Lang at January 20, 2012 03:16 PM (QcFbt)

22 The straw poll up on Drudge asks who won the SC debate; for quite a
while the results showed RuPaul winning it, but now he's in second place
to Newt.

I didn't see the last debate. Does anyone here think the racist wingnut won the debate or that he was even close?

His followers swarm every open poll.


Posted by: GnuBreed at January 20, 2012 03:16 PM (BhuDE)

23 Paulbots will just fire back that there's nothing 'illegal' about this tactic.

Thereby demonstrating how they don't get it.

Posted by: manofaiki at January 20, 2012 03:16 PM (iGKkt)

24 Honestly, I my first thought was that this came from Zerohedge or that even more foolish website Business Insider.
LOFL.
No, Republicans need Paul. What the hell other scape-fear could possibly unite them around Mittens?

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 03:16 PM (mf67L)

25 Team Meteor is pleased to announce that those on Team Meteor have access to punch, pie, cookies and cupcakes. Pending approval, soon there may also be cheesecake.
For those of you yet undecided, Team Meteor urges you to give serious consideration to the Team Meteor platform that an ELE is the best possible election outcome.
Team Meteor. Be honest, it's better than the alternatives.

Posted by: alexthechick at January 20, 2012 03:17 PM (VtjlW)

26 Besides Ace, despite all of your hem-hawing, you are forgetting about the super delegates.

Ummm... Republicans don't have Super Delegates. That was something the Democrats did specifically. We just have normal old, representative republican delegates.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Has Joined Team Meteor at January 20, 2012 03:17 PM (8y9MW)

27 But if you spend all day reading dark conspiracies, the world starts to look like a dark conspiracy.

Funny you should mention that....

Posted by: Erick Erick$on at January 20, 2012 03:18 PM (DnS8M)

28
I have had my fill of Ron Paul.

We've humored this faction in our party long enough.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:18 PM (G/zuv)

29 If it comes to this, then the RNC needs to make a decision. They must ban Ron Paul from the convention.

Except the RNC wants Romney to be the nominee. You are "only" locked in for the first round of voting. But it will only take one round to nominate Romney.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at January 20, 2012 03:18 PM (i330i)

30 Ain't going to happen.

But its a nice scare story going into SC tomorrow.

Speaking of, who should I vote for in the primary tomorrow?

I actually caught a public appearance of Gingrich here on Tuesday, and was actually considering giving him my vote.

Am I insane?


Posted by: looking closely at January 20, 2012 03:18 PM (PwGfd)

31 The best he could do is become a kingmaker -- I will direct my delegates to you if you pledge to destroy the Reptoids and audit the Fed. Yeah sure Ron, first sunny day. Now hand over the freakin' delegates.

Posted by: joncelli, too stressed by half at January 20, 2012 03:19 PM (RD7QR)

32 Why? !!!RON PAUL!!!, that's why.

A vote for RON PAUL is a vote for Azathoth the the Blind Idiot God and destroyer of all, including his followers.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at January 20, 2012 03:19 PM (0q2P7)

33 For all that I’d really not like to see a Paul candidacy, if the problem is that the rules are set up to encourage manipulation, then the rules should be changed. I’d guess that the rules are this way to allow insiders to manipulate the system, and that Paul has figured out where some of the strings are.

An honest system is harder to game than a crooked one. Paul seems to be finding it pretty easy to game this one.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at January 20, 2012 03:19 PM (j02Nj)

34 1. It is very unlikely that there will be a brokered convention.

2. I don't see this as contempt of democracy. this is simply using the rules as laid out. If on the first ballot these delegates did not vote for who they are pledge to, that would be one thing, but this is simply strategically playing the game by its rules.

and no, I do not support Paul whatsoever. I just don't see this as being that terrible.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at January 20, 2012 03:19 PM (sOx93)

35
Paul's best hope is that there really ARE chemtrails, and that the Illuminati ramp up the spraying schedule in October.
Fuck, I hate Paultards.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at January 20, 2012 03:20 PM (j7/ZK)

36 Yet another reason to make sure we get both House and Senate this time around.

Posted by: minuteman (formerly trainer) until Juggy is gone at January 20, 2012 03:20 PM (Rojyk)

37 Am I insane?

If so, then welcome aboard!

Posted by: Pron Raul at January 20, 2012 03:20 PM (DnS8M)

38 Perhaps Mitten's just needs to come out with his own brand of lube.

Mitt Romney Lube: "Relax, this is happening."

Posted by: taylork at January 20, 2012 03:20 PM (5wsU9)

39 Ace, you may not believe in "The Republican Establishment," but I guarantee that the very rich and powerful would NOT allow Ron Fucking Paul to be the nominee after a brokered convention

Posted by: The Q at January 20, 2012 03:20 PM (LnQhT)

40 Or, what Mike said @20.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at January 20, 2012 03:20 PM (j02Nj)

41 I think I better apply for a press pass today, looks like Tampa is going to be FUN!

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo-intellectual at January 20, 2012 03:21 PM (hXJOG)

42 Vote for Gingrich if you want to. Your vote is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. And there's a douchetard stoner living in his van whose vote will cancel yours out anyway.

Posted by: Truman North at January 20, 2012 03:21 PM (I2LwF)

43 His followers swarm every open poll.


Posted by: GnuBreed at January 20, 2012 03:16 PM (BhuDE)
Yes

Posted by: nevergiveup at January 20, 2012 03:21 PM (eCnLg)

44 I actually caught a public appearance of Gingrich here on Tuesday, and was actually considering giving him my vote.
I don't think that's insane. It's certainly better than voting for Luap Nor.

On the other hand, I think writing in 'Team Meteor' or 'Xipe Totec' would be a better use of your time.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Has Joined Team Meteor at January 20, 2012 03:22 PM (8y9MW)

45 Where's the press on Ron Paul's senility? The guy is pushing 90, right?

Posted by: S Daniel at January 20, 2012 03:22 PM (fM4AU)

46 Funny you should mention that....
It is not conspiratorial to make note of the faact that a vast and diverse but unified array ofconspiratorial nutjobs are conspiring against us to steal the presidency!
Oh wait....

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 03:23 PM (mf67L)

47 Vote for Kebert Xela.

Posted by: Truman North at January 20, 2012 03:23 PM (I2LwF)

48 All logic argues against a brokered convention, but these are strange times we are living in. Who ever thought a commie bastard would be living at 1600 Penn Ave? Anything can and might happen this year. Be forever vigilant.

Posted by: nevergiveup at January 20, 2012 03:23 PM (eCnLg)

49 Saw this ... thought of Ace ...

"Rick Perry announcing he dropped out of the race is like me emailing
Gisele Bundchen to tell her I'm not interested in dating her anymore."

Posted by: IrishSamurai at January 20, 2012 03:23 PM (ZW9en)

50 Posted by: MICHAEL M. MALIHI at January 20, 2012 03:09 PM (e8kgV)
Guess his lawyahs are just as inept at the law as is he!

Posted by: giftogab at January 20, 2012 03:24 PM (SPVfc)

51 There's an arrogant contempt of democracy here.

no, just the fulfillment of its intended potential.

Posted by: Insert Next Dear Leader Here at January 20, 2012 03:24 PM (oif6Y)

52 Republicans don't have Super Delegates. That was something the
Democrats did specifically. We just have normal old, representative
republican delegates.

Really? I stand corrected. DOOOM!!!! Go see señor Tanner and tell him....Ron Paul is coming.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at January 20, 2012 03:25 PM (0q2P7)

53 Paul has zero shot at the nomination. None.

The Paultards might try this in states where he is losing, but Ron Paul will not be the Republican nominee in 2012.

Posted by: IrishSamurai at January 20, 2012 03:25 PM (ZW9en)

54 Fuck that scrawny pencil necked pinch faced dweeb. And fuck his brainless supporters too. You read that Paulbots. Fuck your sorry asses, your threadbare little rooster will NEVER be incharge, so stuff that in your well greased asses.

Posted by: maddogg at January 20, 2012 03:25 PM (OlN4e)

55 Team Meteor. Be honest, it's better than the alternatives.

Posted by: alexthechick at January 20, 2012 03:17 PM (VtjlW)
Team Cthulhu eats your meteor for lunch and thus begs to differ. In a politely evil sort of way, of course.

Posted by: Cthulhu 2012: The only remaining conservative! at January 20, 2012 03:25 PM (RD7QR)

56 "It may pay off if the GOP doesn’t unite around a candidate soon."

One more reason I wish the nomination would get settled early on. And then, we need a damned purge of the Paulbots from the Party.

Posted by: CoolCzech at January 20, 2012 03:25 PM (niZvt)

57 So, assume this is true.

What can happen?

First ballot, nominee, game over.

No nominee, then a scrum. Paul's delegates will have a controlling block, but not enough to get their man nominated.

The key will be finding someone that Paulbot can support AND not running over them, AKA pissing them off enough to run a third party.

Interesting times my friends.

Popcorn futures are skyrocketing!

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo-intellectual at January 20, 2012 03:25 PM (hXJOG)

58
If things spiral out of control and this scenario is realized, think Chicago 1968.

This was supposed to be Our year, goddammit.
Why are we letting it slip away?

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:26 PM (G/zuv)

59 "Rick Perry announcing he dropped out of the race is like me emailing
Gisele Bundchen to tell her I'm not interested in dating her anymore."

You shouldn't give up. She's going to be emotionally vulnerable sometime within the next 3 weeks after her husband ends up in the hospital (hopefully due to the Giants front 4, but possibly due to the Ravens's LBs).

Posted by: The Q at January 20, 2012 03:26 PM (LnQhT)

60 he'll be eighty.....and he is a loon.....the kind of odd family member that acts sane one day so you chastise yourself for not visiting him more often.....then the next time you visit he's back to his rantings and you pledge to never visit again..........let's kick him out of the family..........

Posted by: phoenixgirl at work at January 20, 2012 03:26 PM (mfbqu)

61 "12
If it comes to this, then the RNC needs to make a decision."

They must ban Ron Paul from the convention
Do that and I guarantee whoever wins the nomination will have no chance in the general election whatsoever.

"Strike me down and I will become more powerful than you could imagine."

Posted by: Crashpanic at January 20, 2012 03:26 PM (fsZum)

62 And...with my new weather machine I'll ruuuuuule the Woooooooorld!!

Posted by: Luap Nor, Dastardly Villian Extraodinair at January 20, 2012 03:27 PM (8ieXv)

63 EXCLUSIVE: Pakistan official says US military will be allowed to return, but not CIA drones
By Dominic Di-Natale
Published January 20, 2012
U.S. military trainers will be invited back into Pakistan "as early as April or May," but the nation has ruled out allowing CIA drones back into the country, Fox News has learned.

Ah how about you go fuck yourself

Posted by: nevergiveup at January 20, 2012 03:27 PM (eCnLg)

64
heh re: Star Wars reference

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:27 PM (G/zuv)

65 Why are we letting it slip away?

(cough) Republican Party (cough) Jaws of victory...

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at January 20, 2012 03:27 PM (0q2P7)

66 This was supposed to be Our year, goddammit. Why are we letting it slip away?

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:26 PM (G/zuv)
BWAHAHAHAHAHA. *couuuuuuuuugh* BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA. *wheeze*

Posted by: The ReptoIlluminatiJew Conspiracy at January 20, 2012 03:27 PM (RD7QR)

67 Posted by: maddogg at January 20, 2012 03:25 PM (OlN4e)
I like your style.

Posted by: ErikW at January 20, 2012 03:27 PM (mqV0Z)

68 we need a damned purge of the Paulbots from the Party.
Oh don't worry.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 03:28 PM (mf67L)

69 34 1. It is very unlikely that there will be a brokered convention.2. I don't see this as contempt of democracy. this is simply using the rules as laid out. If on the first ballot these delegates did not vote for who they are pledge to, that would be one thing, but this is simply strategically playing the game by its rules.and no, I do not support Paul whatsoever. I just don't see this as being that terrible.
Posted by: Monkeytoe at January 20, 2012 03:19 PM (sOx93)
Well hell, have at it then. Nothing like getting screwed again to remind you how you've already been rode hard and put away wet!

Posted by: giftogab at January 20, 2012 03:28 PM (SPVfc)

70 21
Got a buddy who reads ZeroHedge. It has turned his head into crazy, paranoia Ron Paul nutjob land.



He's still sane enough he realizes what it's doing to him. But two
years of him sending me link to zerohedge gold-bug, jew-baiting,
paranoia is getting so fucking old. Literally dozens of imminent
Israel-Iran war link. Dozens of total-implosion-of-the-world posts in
the next 48 hours posts.


Tell him it is the opposite of here. He should only read the articles there.

Posted by: A Breitbart at January 20, 2012 03:28 PM (oif6Y)

71 Pat Buchanan's take for what it's worth:

Prediction: Paul will go into the Tampa, Fla., convention with more
delegates than any other candidate save the nominee of the party. There
is a gnawing fear in the GOP that Paul will quit the party when the
primaries are over and run as a third-party candidate on the Libertarian
or some other line in the November election. Not going to
happen. Such a decision would sunder the movement Paul has pulled
together, bring about his own and his party's certain defeat in
November, and re-elect Barack Obama. Paul would become a
pariah in his party, while his son, Sen. Rand Paul, who would be forced
to endorse his father over the GOP nominee, would be ruined as a future
Republican leader. Why would Dr. Paul do this, when the future inside the GOP looks bright not only for him but for his son? The course Ron Paul will likely take, then, is this. Commit to this nomination battle all the way to Tampa, contest every primary and caucus, amass a maximum of delegates. If
Jon Huntsman, Rick Perry, Rick Santorum and Newt Gingrich lose in South
Carolina, they will lose in Florida, and begin to peel off and drop
out, for none is a cause candidate and each will soon come to realize
that his presidential aspirations are done for now if not for good. Their
departure will leave the Republican contest a Romney-Paul race, giving
Paul half a year on the campaign trail to increase his visibility,
enlarge his following, grow his mailing lists and broaden his donor
base. In return for a commitment to campaign for the ticket,
Paul should demand a prime-time speaking slot at the convention and use
the speech to emulate Barry Goldwater in 1960 when he admonished
conservatives at the convention to "grow up," so that "we can take this
party back." Assuming the nominee is Mitt Romney, should he
win in the fall and Paul has campaigned for him, Paul will not only have
a friend in the White House, but be a respected figure in the party
with a constituency all his own. Most important to Paul are
the issues he has campaigned on: a new transparency and accountability
for the Federal Reserve, a downsizing of the American empire, and an end
to U.S. interventions in foreign quarrels and wars that are none of our
business. Whether Paul goes home to Texas when his last term
in Congress is over in January 2013, or whether he remains in
Washington in a policy institute to advance the causes he believes in,
his views will be sought out by the major media on all the issues he
cares about.

Posted by: kathysaysso at January 20, 2012 03:28 PM (ZtwUX)

72 Just admit it ace, you're doing the average ace, rat relocation thing again right?
I have the Twilight Zone on in the background, but this idea is creeping me out even more.



Posted by: ontherocks at January 20, 2012 03:28 PM (ZJCDy)

73 One more reason I wish the nomination would get settled early on. And
then, we need a damned purge of the Paulbots from the Party.

What makes you think we're actually in the Party?

Oooo, look, a Snuffleupagus!

Posted by: Densetropy at January 20, 2012 03:28 PM (DnS8M)

74 Oh, it would suck for 4 more years, most likely, but it would be the final nail in the coffin for the Republican Party, and we could finally get even the big donors to realize we need to found an actual Conservative Party.This is exactly the argument that was made when people were voting against John McCain. How well has that worked out?
I have seen this said a few places and I agree with it - The problem with the "We need a Carter to get a Reagan" theory is that there has to be a Reagan available. There isn't one.
The same thing appaies to your "We'll get a real conservative party" theory, if I understandthe definition of conservative you are using correctly there are at least two such parties already, the Constitution Party (formerly the US Taxpayer Party) and the America First Party. Neither one of those is a firebrand of electoral hope. There is no charismatic leader such as Reagan for the GOP and frankly most people just don't agree with their vision. There are a lot of people who are fiscally conservative socially liberal to libertarian who are just turned off by the SoCon thing.

Posted by: CBHJ at January 20, 2012 03:28 PM (9VSWS)

75
But we cannot be afraid of what Ron Paul and his supporters might or might not do.

He cannot be allowed to ruin this election for us.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:28 PM (G/zuv)

76 You should be able to easily tell the Ron Paul stealth delegates because they all smell of vinegar.

Posted by: Mikey NTH at January 20, 2012 03:29 PM (hLRSq)

77 As far as that brilliant strategy...

Romney delegates would be the LAST ones to turn to Paul the Martian. I think the Gingrich ones would be the most likely to do that.

Posted by: CoolCzech at January 20, 2012 03:29 PM (niZvt)

78 So I looked up Xipe Tolec. Those Aztecs were one fucked-up civilization.

Posted by: Waterhouse at January 20, 2012 03:30 PM (hNdbt)

79 OT Just the other day a cellulose to ethanol plant in GA was sold off for pennies on the dollar. Of course mucho tax dollars were lost in the deal. Now check this out (CNS News):

Agriculture Secretary Tom Vilsack announced Friday that his agency has approved a $25-million conditional loan guarantee to build a 55,000-square-foot biorefinery plant in Iowa.The Fiberight facility will produce cellulosic ethanol by converting municipal solid waste and other industrial pulps into "advanced biofuels," the news release said.

Hey Rocky, watch me pull my ass out of my head.

Posted by: GnuBreed at January 20, 2012 03:30 PM (BhuDE)

80 Team Cthulhu eats your meteor for lunch and thus begs to differ. In a politely evil sort of way, of course.

Please. Cthulhu was beaten by a steam-liner last time. A full on Meteor would put him back to sleep for so long, people would completely forget about him again.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Has Joined Team Meteor at January 20, 2012 03:30 PM (8y9MW)

81 You don't kick paul out of the convention. you let him come, give him a nice seat and let him speak at 9:30 AM on the first day of the convention

Posted by: nevergiveup at January 20, 2012 03:30 PM (eCnLg)

82 Ron Paul is the only candidate who vows to audit the Fed, move to the gold standard, and stop the chemtrail poisoning.

You may not care about chemtrails, but trust me, your brain and testicles do.

And neuro-testicle poisons are exacerbated by the omnipresent wi-fi and radio wave pollution. Right now radio wi-fi electrochemical waves are exponentially invading your testicles. Think about that!

(Liberty, Constitution, Ron Paul! I win the debate.)

Posted by: RonPaul2000 at January 20, 2012 03:31 PM (QcFbt)

83 Ron Paul, or Xenu?

Posted by: nickless at January 20, 2012 03:32 PM (MMC8r)

84 Consider the source.

Posted by: Adjoran at January 20, 2012 03:32 PM (VfmLu)

85
re: the DofAg's $25M loan guarantee

If we scratch the surface, you think we'd find an Obama supporter?


Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:32 PM (G/zuv)

86 There is a gnawing fear in the GOP that Paul will quit the party when the primaries are over and run as a third-party candidate on the Libertarian or some other line in the November election.
OMG.
Let's call him a dickface and kick his supporters out of the party. That'll dissuade him from running 3rd party!
Really it's a very good thing for the same bunch of idiots that gave us Herman Cain and Rick Santorum, that Paul is fucking retiring and won't run 3rd party regardless.
But by then most of his supporters will have left on their own, to Gary Johnson... who will run 3rd party.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 03:33 PM (mf67L)

87 One more reason I wish the nomination would get settled early on. And
then, we need a damned purge of the Paulbots from the Party.

True, but at least half of them aren't in the party. The other half would simply find another batshit crazy cult leader to worship.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 20, 2012 03:33 PM (SY2Kh)

88 Do not underestimate Redstate's connections into the candidates and campaigns. 3 years ago I was at a small gathering of Redstate folks, where I met candidates Nikki Haley, Marco Rubio, Ken Cuchinelli, Ted Cruz, Michael Williams, and Pat Toomey. None of them were considered anything other than outsiders with little chance of being elected.

Posted by: Dave in Fla at January 20, 2012 03:33 PM (RI0fC)

89 And neuro-testicle poisons are exacerbated by the
omnipresent wi-fi and radio wave pollution. Right now radio wi-fi
electrochemical waves are exponentially invading your testicles. Think
about that!



Whoa. That would explain everything!

Posted by: Dude who has never known the touch of a woman at January 20, 2012 03:34 PM (RD7QR)

90 Some of you conspiracy nuts need to maybe take a break from the internet.

Posted by: Gristle Encased Head at January 20, 2012 03:34 PM (+lsX1)

91 Here's an interesting and informative video on doctors: http://goo.gl/9ZJ9g

Posted by: mike at January 20, 2012 03:34 PM (WnI5L)

92 Pat Buchanan, my depends are not full yet, so I can shit on you and not even know it.

I think, unless the joos took my good depends and the one's I am wearing are fake chink depends.

Is it dinner time yet?

Posted by: Billy Bob, pseudo-intellectual at January 20, 2012 03:34 PM (hXJOG)

93 "Team Cthulhu eats your meteor for lunch and thus begs to differ. In a politely evil sort of way, of course."

Dream on.

Posted by: Crimso at January 20, 2012 03:34 PM (Xj3ni)

94
OMG.

Let's call him a dickface and kick his supporters out of the party. That'll dissuade him from running 3rd party!

Posted by: lectual at January 20, 2012 03:35 PM (hXJOG)

95 Please elect Mitt Romney.....he is the only person that i could easily beat in the general election (afterall he lost to McCain...who i easily beat by the way). He can not even get his own party to unite behind him (let alone the independents and democtrats that he would actually need to get elected). Please also call Ron Paul crazy, a loon, and everything else that i used against the tea party...we can't have this man become president, he would impose conservitive economic policies, undo my healthcare plan, and not serve the DNC and RNC lords. Just remember Ace, Hannity, Levin, Hewit, and Rush that in 2006 no one read anything you had to say.....and what i have done to keep your ratings high. Now go spread my message that Mitt Romney is the only electable canidate, so i can keep your profits rolling in for another 4 years.

Posted by: Barrak Obama at January 20, 2012 03:35 PM (MWz/S)

96 If this actually happened it would be the end of the Republican Party. It's bad enough Ron Paul and I are in the same party. There's no way I'd be in the party with him at the Helm.

Posted by: supercore23 at January 20, 2012 03:35 PM (bwV72)

97 90 Why did you remove the "Ted Kennedy" part of your name?That was teh funny.

Posted by: steevy at January 20, 2012 03:35 PM (7W3wI)

98 Also, If Newt won the majority of delegates wouldn't that blow this plan to bits?

Posted by: supercore23 at January 20, 2012 03:35 PM (bwV72)

99 58
If things spiral out of control and this scenario is realized, think Chicago 1968.This was supposed to be Our year, goddammit. ...



Who ever said that? Are you familiar with the meaning of this word "sooth"?

Posted by: Inigo Montoya at January 20, 2012 03:36 PM (oif6Y)

100 Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:05 PM (G/zuv) They are masters of breathless exasperation at having to explain such OBVIOUS things as whatever just occurred to them that morning. Every morning.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 20, 2012 03:36 PM (Qjh0I)

101 93

"Team Cthulhu eats your meteor for lunch and thus begs to differ. In a politely evil sort of way, of course."



Dream on.

Posted by: Crimso at January 20, 2012 03:34 PM (Xj3ni)
Okay, you win today's Remarkably Subtle But Nerdy Comment of the Day Award.

Posted by: Dude who has never known the touch of a woman at January 20, 2012 03:36 PM (RD7QR)

102 OMG.
Let's call him a dickface and kick his supporters out of the party. That'll dissuade him from running 3rd party!


Yeah, well, no, assholes don't care, so that is why you got Woodrow Wilson, because I am an asshole.
That's why you got Bill Clinton, Anderson was an asshole.

Assholes are like honey badgers, they don't give a shit.

Posted by: Ted Roosevelt at January 20, 2012 03:37 PM (hXJOG)

103 WAIT! This came from that asshole Erick Erickson?

Speaking as the nice grandma that I am, fuck him.

I have all sorts of stuff to worry about without him making up "influential friends" who hear "rumors" and "make phone calls."

Just dammit, Ace! Cite your source in the body of the article so I won't waste my time!

Posted by: Miss Marple at January 20, 2012 03:38 PM (GoIUi)

104 OMG.
Let's call him a dickface and kick his supporters out of the party. That'll dissuade him from running 3rd party!
And you know how he's gotten to the point where he could pose a threat as a 3rd party candidate?
Because he was given a platform as a Republican candidate, despite being a RINO in the purest sense of the word.

And yes, he's an insane, stupid dickface.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 20, 2012 03:38 PM (SY2Kh)

105 If we scratch the surface, you think we'd find an Obama supporter?

Shit, you'll probably find one of Vilsack's in-laws.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 20, 2012 03:38 PM (ZKzrr)

106 I can't tell if the scenario is complete paranoia on the part of the republican establishment who thinks they can run everything and pick the candidate because they know what's good for us and the country even though those pesky regular Americans think their vote matters....or utter and complete brilliance on the part of the ron paul people.

Posted by: c. up at January 20, 2012 03:39 PM (oZfic)

107 This was supposed to be Our year, goddammit. Why are we letting it slip away?
Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:26 PM (G/zuv)

It's not going to slip away. Luap Nor will NOT be our nominee and the SCOAMT will be defeated. Don't panic. Eye on the ball.

Posted by: Soona at January 20, 2012 03:39 PM (OH+rd)

108 "this shit has got to stop"

Red October.

Posted by: teh Fred at January 20, 2012 03:39 PM (hXJOG)

109 Agriculture
Secretary Tom Vilsack announced Friday that his agency has approved a
$25-million conditional loan guarantee to build a 55,000-square-foot
biorefinery plant in Iowa.The
Fiberight facility will produce cellulosic ethanol by converting
municipal solid waste and other industrial pulps into "advanced
biofuels," the news release said.Hey Rocky, watch me pull my ass out of my head.

Posted by: GnuBreed at January 20, 2012 03:30 PM (BhuDE)
100% corruption.Vilsack's wife is running against Steve King in the new IA-4.And, yes, the thing is in Blairsburg, IA which is in IA-4.

Posted by: AmishDude at January 20, 2012 03:39 PM (T0NGe)

110 Ace, Oh please. If this is true, which I don't doubt,it is truly ingenious and rather hypocritical to decry Paul for playing the game better than the other candidates. The very simple fact is that people do not have a right to vote for president. There is no constitutional right to vote for POTUS. States elect the president, not the people.The people elect Congress. Go read the Constitution, go learn something about the Electoral College. The Electoral College is NOT democratic. And the other fact is that our system is already broken. Early states have too much power over the process.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 03:39 PM (HS3dy)

111 ....or utter and complete brilliance on the part of the ron paul people.
I'll go out on a limb and say it's not that.

Posted by: alexthechick - Team Meteor. Our cupcakes have sprinkles. at January 20, 2012 03:40 PM (VtjlW)

112 Separated at birth: Ron Paul and Timothy Leary

Posted by: S Daniel at January 20, 2012 03:40 PM (fM4AU)

113
what's the party make up in IA-4, Amish?

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:40 PM (G/zuv)

114 I will happily vote for Mitt Romney before I ever vote for the prejudiced, conspiracy-touting, Blame America Firster crank from the 14th
District.

Posted by: Miss80s at January 20, 2012 03:40 PM (d6QMz)

115 Just have all candidates/RNC tell Paul that if he'll just go away, he will be appointed chairman of the Fed when Obama is defeated. :-D

Posted by: Tonic Dog at January 20, 2012 03:40 PM (X/+QT)

116 Wouldn't surprise me. No one strategizes like the Paul people. They have meetups and shit, and figure this stuff out way in advance. It's really kinda creepy.

Posted by: jeanne! with two N's and an E at January 20, 2012 03:40 PM (GdalM)

117 How many more votes did Paul get in NH and IA this year than he did last time?


As for this scenario, I guess I'm skeptical of these friend of a friend stories, particularly when the take home message is "Hurry up and unite around a candidate"... because that's what I've been told since July. Unite around Mitt.

Posted by: Y-not typing with her nose at January 20, 2012 03:41 PM (5H6zj)

118 112
Separated at birth: Ron Paul and Timothy Leary


Posted by: S Daniel at January 20, 2012 03:40 PM (fM4AU)
Good lord, it must have taken the doctors hours to disentangle their eyebrows.

Posted by: joncelli, too stressed by half at January 20, 2012 03:41 PM (RD7QR)

119 Vilsack's wife is running against Steve King in the new IA-4.
...having never lived in the district. Very Hillary.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 20, 2012 03:41 PM (ZKzrr)

120 What's with all the hate for Red State? I don't get it.

I only read it occasionally, but I don't see where the disdain comes from.

From the Palinista types I understand, because anyone who wasn't on Team Palin is The Enemy, but I keep seeing people bitch about RS and Erik like they peed in the punchbowl.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 20, 2012 03:42 PM (SY2Kh)

121 "There's an arrogant contempt of democracy here. "

This prick has got nothing on me.

Posted by: B+rry Ob+owmao at January 20, 2012 03:42 PM (ZHBuC)

122 c.up

you think like that because you are a zerohedger

Posted by: phoenixgirl at work at January 20, 2012 03:42 PM (mfbqu)

123 Because he was given a platform as a Republican candidate, despite being a RINO in the purest sense of the word.
And yes, he's an insane, stupid dickface.
You keep on fighting the good fight, scoring glorious victory after glorious victory, keeping America safe at night from a back-bench Texas congressman, while the likes of Obama and Mitch McConnel ass rape you to hell and back.
Seriously. Keep on truckin'.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 03:42 PM (mf67L)

124 And neuro-testicle poisons are exacerbated by the omnipresent wi-fi and
radio wave pollution. Right now radio wi-fi electrochemical waves are
exponentially invading your testicles. Think about that!


I heard a theory on the radio along time ago called the Samer Theory. Samer, as it was explained to the radio shows host, was a guy in the
military back in the 1970s. He worked in the communications field. He
posited then that because of all the
microwaves in the air, people are going nuts.

I thought it just a joke when I heard it (and it was relayed that way) but with the way things are going I'm starting to wonder.


Posted by: Buzzsaw at January 20, 2012 03:42 PM (tf9Ne)

125 That's why you got Bill Clinton, Anderson was an asshole.

That would be Ross Perot, the last big indy sensation.

Posted by: jeanne! with two N's and an E at January 20, 2012 03:43 PM (GdalM)

126 Actually, that whole block quote sounds like something the cat piss itself might have said. If it was that intelligent.

Posted by: jem at January 20, 2012 03:43 PM (0oYHO)

127 OT: Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

From the linked article:

"Friends and family of an Iranian-born woman who was found shot to death
last weekend in her car say they do not believe her outspoken
pro-democracy activism was connected to her death."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Has Joined Team Meteor at January 20, 2012 03:43 PM (8y9MW)

128 Jeez, this is juvenile. The only time I have seen anything like this work was at a national College Republican convention back in the 1970s. It is the stuff of fantasy at the grownup, national party level.
This was also a fantasy employed by the Reagan people in 1976, trying desperately to get to a second ballot so that conservative delegates from states like Kentucky where Ford had won the primary could vote for Reagan. It didn't happen, and it wasn't even close.

Posted by: rockmom at January 20, 2012 03:43 PM (NYnoe)

129
so Vilsack and Obama are trying to buy a district for Mrs Vilsack?

I have steam coming from my ears right now.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:43 PM (G/zuv)

130 112 Separated at birth: Ron Paul and Timothy Leary
Posted by: S Daniel at January 20, 2012 03:40 PM (fM4AU)
I told him not to eat the brown acid.

Posted by: Luap Nor, Dastardly Villian Extraodinair at January 20, 2012 03:43 PM (8ieXv)

131 So you are worried about the cult of Mormonism and the cult of character and the family values crowd and right in front of your face is the cult of paul. (meaning the generic you, not any you in particular)....

In plain site.....

Geez if this were a novel we'd be saying "not plausible"

Posted by: c. up at January 20, 2012 03:43 PM (oZfic)

132 >>Posted by: Miss Marple at January 20, 2012 03:38 PM (GoIUi)

I just fell out of my chair and prolly cracked a couple of ribs laughing.

But don't worry I can get up.

.....eventually

Posted by: ontherocks at January 20, 2012 03:44 PM (ZJCDy)

133 The candidates should've discomendated him at the 1st debate. Endorse the opposition your out. Steal their ideas if they ever have a good one but endorsement, nope.

Double up on the metal detectors, paint the 2nd set a weird color with something humming and a lot of guys in MIB wardrobe. No full on Paul-tard would make it in out all week without going buggy.

Crazy people do crazy things, that's why we call them crazy.

Posted by: DaveA at January 20, 2012 03:44 PM (XFxB5)

134 103
WAIT! This came from that asshole Erick Erickson?

Speaking as the nice grandma that I am, fuck him.

I have all sorts of stuff to worry about without him making up "influential friends" who hear "rumors" and "make phone calls."

Just dammit, Ace! Cite your source in the body of the article so I won't waste my time!


Posted by: Miss Marple at January 20, 2012 03:38 PM (GoIUi)

No seriously, you can trust me on this. If you read RedState every day and believe every one of my insane posters' Diaries and don't hold a single opinion opposite mine (whatever that might be from day to day) which would of course force me to tell you G'bye then maybe, just maybe, I'll finally let loose the goods about Will Folks that I have one hundred percent bona fide confirmed honest-Injun information on but have been sitting on for the last year and a half. No, really. Any day now.

Posted by: Erick Erick$on at January 20, 2012 03:44 PM (DnS8M)

135 113

what's the party make up in IA-4, Amish?


Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:40 PM (G/zuv)
Balanced. Iowa does this computer thing and, for some reason, they don't like safe districts. It's a new district, so the old rules do not apply.

Posted by: AmishDude at January 20, 2012 03:44 PM (T0NGe)

136 Ron Paul as president would be a disastrous for the libertarian cause as Obama has been for the liberal cause. And both of them for the same reason:

They are bad politicians.

They are both ideologues who have no ability to deal inside the system. That's why Obama couldn't get anything passed even when his party controlled both chambers, and why he had to cram Obamacare in with procedural chicanery.

He's a bad politician. So is Ron Paul.

Posted by: Phelps at January 20, 2012 03:45 PM (8eyQP)

137 What's with all the hate for Red State? I don't get it.
Oh, you didn't think you were the only one with a hard on for purging of that one group that is totally justified?
Have you been following the primary?
This whole party is going to tear itself to bits.
Which is just as well. That's how these things end, as all things do eventuallyend, to make way for whatever comes next.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 03:45 PM (mf67L)

138 There is no brokered convention, there is only Zuul.

Posted by: zuul at January 20, 2012 03:45 PM (5wsU9)

139 119
Vilsack's wife is running against Steve King in the new IA-4.

...having never lived in the district. Very Hillary.


Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 20, 2012 03:41 PM (ZKzrr)
Yes you did. Ames is in it now.

Posted by: AmishDude at January 20, 2012 03:45 PM (T0NGe)

140 This plan is so crafty it could only be the work of....Joooooooz!!!!

Posted by: nickless at January 20, 2012 03:46 PM (MMC8r)

141 So I looked up Xipe Tolec. Those Aztecs were one fucked-up civilization.
Posted by: Waterhouse at January 20, 2012 03:30 PM (hNdbt)

My Mexican isn't the best, but I'm reading that name as Zippy Toleck. It'd make a great nic.

Posted by: Soona at January 20, 2012 03:46 PM (OH+rd)

142 Vote for Kebert Xela.Posted by: Truman North at January 20, 2012 03:23 PM

HA! That's just what your mother said last night!

Posted by: Sean Connery at January 20, 2012 03:46 PM (ay6+/)

143
Heather is saying that Mrs Vilsack is a carpetbagger.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:46 PM (G/zuv)

144 Serious, non-Cult of Personality Libertarians would do themselves a big favor by denouncing Ron Paul loudly and frequently.

Posted by: joncelli, too stressed by half at January 20, 2012 03:46 PM (RD7QR)

145
Moron, muthafucka.

Do you speak it?

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:46 PM (G/zuv)

146
WAIT! This came from that asshole Erick Erickson?

Erick Erickson may hear voices in his head, but so do the Ronulans.

I wouldn't put pulling this kind of sh*t past them.

Posted by: Ed Anger - Certified Kos Kid at January 20, 2012 03:47 PM (7+pP9)

147 I hope the grocery stores in the host city stock up on vinegar cause sales are going through the roof people.

Posted by: Ben at January 20, 2012 03:47 PM (wuv1c)

148 You know that test Libertarians hand out to prove you are a Libertarian? Paul has harnessed this force in his candidacy.

I'm seeing mass conversions over to this guy in NC because of the low quality of this year's field.

His not working well with others is seen as a strength in a climate where collusion brings us trillions in new debt.

Posted by: Bill Clinton's Cigar at January 20, 2012 03:47 PM (aFxlY)

149 Romney and the "Establishment" won't lift a finger to stop electromagnetic neuro-testicular poisoning -- because they are too busy getting rich off it and putting their ill-gotten neuro-testicle profits into Cayman Islands bank account setup for them by northeast bankers (the firsters). They laugh at you in their fancy yachts and going out to Red Lobster every night and flying the concord to the Himalayas with their iphones and ipads and Russian mistresses.

Word salad? My word salad votes. And it votes for Dr (!!!) Ron Paul.

(Liberty Constitution Ron Paul. I win the debate.)

Posted by: RonPaul2000 at January 20, 2012 03:47 PM (QcFbt)

150 Ron Paul is the only conservitive left in the race and those damn Paulites (thats what me and my liberals like to call them....kinda cleaver right) just won't let his message of a constitution government die. Look at all i have done to rid us of this nagging constitution, and yet these Paulites still want to go back to that constitution. Please keep spreading my message of "Only Mitt Romney could beat Obama in a general election". This will ensure that we will get rid of this annoying piece of paper forever.....

Posted by: Barrak Obama at January 20, 2012 03:47 PM (MWz/S)

151 You keep on fighting the good fight, scoring glorious victory after
glorious victory, keeping America safe at night from a back-bench Texas
congressman, while the likes of Obama and Mitch McConnel ass rape you to
hell and back.
Seriously. Keep on truckin'
Thanks, I will then.
Wait- you have me confused. Is he just a harmless, irrelevant backbench Texas congressman or someone we should make nice with so he won't hand Obama a victory through a 3rd party run?

For all their faults, I'll take 20 McConnell's and 50 Boehners over one bugfuck crazy Paul.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 20, 2012 03:48 PM (SY2Kh)

152 My Mexican isn't the best, but I'm reading that name as Zippy Toleck. It'd make a great nic.

It's actualy Xipe Totec, but your pronunciation is pretty close (Zippy Toe-tech would not be far off).

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Team Meteor. Now with Cheesecake at January 20, 2012 03:48 PM (8y9MW)

153 Oh yes the Dr. is in the house .

Posted by: Cerebral Paulsey at January 20, 2012 03:48 PM (kgU8m)

154
Redstate is pure opinion/propaganda.

Which is fine. They do what they do.
But don't pretend what you're selling isn't propaganda.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:49 PM (G/zuv)

155
>>Serious, non-Cult of Personality Libertarians would do themselves a big favor by denouncing Ron Paul loudly and frequently.

I'm in that group. I'm so pissed at Reason. They're on the Paul train because they're supporting him. They gloss over all of his problems and lies.

Posted by: Ben at January 20, 2012 03:49 PM (wuv1c)

156 This whole party is going to tear itself to bits.

What's with the "this" party stuff, 'trope? You're not in the GOP. You've proudly told everyone so on any number of occasions. God love ya, I wouldn't be anywhere without patriots like you.

You belong to me.

Posted by: !RON PAUL! at January 20, 2012 03:49 PM (DnS8M)

157 Ron Paul has done nothing to advance the cause of liberty in America. Not one damned thing.

All he does is posture and pose.

Posted by: sandy burger at January 20, 2012 03:49 PM (0U+Pz)

158
How to fuck up your child for life: http://goo.gl/2sRc3

Posted by: François Villon at January 20, 2012 03:50 PM (WnI5L)

159 They're on the Paul train because they're supporting him

Isn't "supporting" part of "being on the train?"

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Team Meteor. Now with Cheesecake at January 20, 2012 03:50 PM (8y9MW)

160 Wait- you have me confused. Is he just a harmless, irrelevant backbench Texas congressman or someone we should make nice with so he won't hand Obama a victory through a 3rd party run?
The former.
I specifically, explicitlysaid it did not matter because Paul wasn't running 3rd party this time regardless. So the former.
Still though, that doesn't mean the strategy isn't retarded, just because you're going to get lucky, and get everything you want without having to do anything.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 03:50 PM (mf67L)

161 This is happening in Oklahoma as well. It first started in 2008. Then they were Huckabee supporters.

Which I wrote about here on 4/6/2008

"JBM operatives in Oklahoma City report that all
three of the delegates and two of three alternate delegates from that
district are Paulians. There was also an attempt to take over the
second district convention held in Tulsa. We’ll know more on Monday."

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at January 20, 2012 03:51 PM (P2PWk)

162 129

so Vilsack and Obama are trying to buy a district for Mrs Vilsack?

I have steam coming from my ears right now.


Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:43 PM (G/zuv)
No, you are buying a district for Mrs Vilsack. Obama and Mr. Vilsack are just managing it.

Posted by: AmishDude at January 20, 2012 03:51 PM (T0NGe)

163 Who keeps the metric system down?

We do, we do
Who keeps Atlantis off the maps?
Who keeps the Martians under wraps?
We do, we do
Who makes Ron Paul a Republican star?
We do, we do

Posted by: befuddled at January 20, 2012 03:51 PM (xJU23)

164 I saw him on television last night. Every time I see him I wonder how come Ace isn't the Conservative blogsphere's face on television. At least Ace has a brain and an opinion and a sense of humor. Last night Anderson was all excited about Erik's tweet about someday being able to tell what went on in the last three days. He opted to ignore the rest of the panel to ask Erik with breath less anticipation about his tweet. Dear God, he basically said he'd been getting a lot of calls from the perry campaign and it was kind of crazy. This is what happens when you are at the right place at the right time and you are suddenly a somebody, if you can call being on CNN occasionally, a somebody. CNN didn't have Erin Burnett anywhere last night. We had to put up with the usual male cast and mad donna and old gloria. At least Erin brings some intelligence to the babble. Were she around she might have reigned Anderson in and we could have heard what the panel thought.

Posted by: c. up at January 20, 2012 03:51 PM (oZfic)

165 All he does is posture and pose.



Posted by: sandy burger at January 20, 2012 03:49 PM (0U+Pz)

Sandy, fuck you, silver dimes are up 200%! (don't buy them from joos)

Posted by: Dr Ron Paul at January 20, 2012 03:51 PM (hXJOG)

166 Obama and Mr. Vilsack are just managing it.


...so you're district is fucked.

Posted by: zuul at January 20, 2012 03:52 PM (5wsU9)

167 Yes you did. Ames is in it now.

Oh, I meant her. After spending her whole life in Mt. Pleasant, Des Moines, and out of state, she bought an address so she could file running papers.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 20, 2012 03:52 PM (ZKzrr)

168 If Herr Dr. Paul speaks at the convention, I hope someone will be kind enough to provide an English translation of his speech from the original German.

Yeah, I went there. Screw that Jew-baiting senile dwarf and his borderline-'tard followers.

Posted by: Slugs a'plenty at January 20, 2012 03:52 PM (2dU/2)

169
well, it's a loan guarantee

so we're only on the hook if the company defaults -- which it will because it is another stupid "green" business idea

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:52 PM (G/zuv)

170 The RedState hate from commenters is probably because a fair # of commenters here have, at one point, commented there and gotten the bum's rush. RedState has an itch trigger finger on the banhammer and it often just depend on the Erickson's mood that day.

just a sneaking suspicion. Being purged from a group tends to generate bad feelings.

Which reminds me, let's ban all the dickface Paultard motherfuckers!

Posted by: Clubber Lang at January 20, 2012 03:53 PM (QcFbt)

171 For all their faults, I'll take 20 McConnell's and 50 Boehners over one bugfuck crazy Paul.
Good news! You win.
You've been winning for 50 years now and you'll win the next 50.
Enjoy it.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 03:53 PM (mf67L)

172 I need independent votes.....please keep bashing Ron Paul.

Posted by: Barrak Obama at January 20, 2012 03:53 PM (MWz/S)

173 Tom Vilsack changed his name.It used to be Dick Ballsack.True story.

Posted by: steevy at January 20, 2012 03:53 PM (7W3wI)

174 RedState has an itch trigger finger on the banhammer

And if any group is going to fall victim to an itchy banhammer trigger finger, it's the Horde.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Team Meteor. Now with Cheesecake at January 20, 2012 03:54 PM (8y9MW)

175
The Republicans, oh these fucking incompetent ninnies...

I can't think...brb...

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:54 PM (G/zuv)

176
"Ron Paul has done nothing to advance the cause of liberty in America. Not one damned thing."
Change a few words and this would be like saying Gandhi has done nothing to advance the cause of peace in the world...
LOL, you're an idiot.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 03:55 PM (HS3dy)

177 I can't think...brb...

Take your time.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Team Meteor. Now with Cheesecake at January 20, 2012 03:55 PM (8y9MW)

178 I'm in that group. I'm so pissed at Reason.

Libertarians will sell their soul for a little bit of recognition. I'm not even treating the small-l ones seriously again. If they ask, I say: "Ron Paul".

All [Paul] does is posture and pose.

Yep. If one of his ideas gets even close to passing, he runs away from it.

Posted by: AmishDude at January 20, 2012 03:56 PM (T0NGe)

179 Posted by: kathysaysso at January 20, 2012 03:28 PM (ZtwUX)
People my wave off Pat, but he is Smarty McSmartster. Death of the West is some of the best stuff EVAH and, sadly,we are all living it out now. He is always worth listening to.

Posted by: giftogab at January 20, 2012 03:56 PM (SPVfc)

180
"Every time I see him I wonder how come Ace isn't the Conservative blogsphere's face on television"
That would require leaving his Mom's basement, not gonna happen...

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 03:56 PM (HS3dy)

181
Okay, so after Solyndra went tits up, you'd think the Republicans would be able to stop all further "safe bets" on "green" business ventures.

But no, they can't because they suck.

There is no reason for Vilsack to be able to get away with this.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:56 PM (G/zuv)

182

LOL, you're an idiot.

On the contrary, Andrew, urine idiot.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:57 PM (G/zuv)

183 172
I need independent votes.....please keep bashing Ron Paul.

Posted by: Barrak Obama at January 20, 2012 03:53 PM (MWz/S)
Dude, half the people rallying behind RonPaul are hard lefties who are disappointed in you.

Posted by: joncelli, too stressed by half at January 20, 2012 03:57 PM (RD7QR)

184 Change a few words and this would be like saying Gandhi has done nothing to advance the cause of peace in the world...

Change a few more words and this would be like saying the rain in Spain falls mainly on the plain.

I assume you're trying to make a point about Ron Paul?

Posted by: sandy burger at January 20, 2012 03:57 PM (ErTq7)

185 179 Pat's okay,except for his pesky antisemitism.

Posted by: steevy at January 20, 2012 03:58 PM (7W3wI)

186
Andrew, name one thing Ron Paul has ever done for libertarianism.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:58 PM (G/zuv)

187 It's actualy Xipe Totec, but your pronunciation is pretty close (Zippy Toe-tech would not be far off).

Not waiting around saying "Huh, can you repeat that" after reading about the skins.

Who was that fat man?

Posted by: DaveA at January 20, 2012 03:58 PM (XFxB5)

188 There is no reason for Vilsack to be able to get away with this.

Wait, don't you remember? We're not actually going to oppose Obama, because that would be mean and people would call us racist, and would stop inviting us to parties.

We're pretty sure we sent out a memo.

Posted by: Your Republican Congress at January 20, 2012 03:58 PM (8y9MW)

189 If ron paul ran third party I think you'd have trump in there right away and then sarah palin would get in there too.

Posted by: c. up at January 20, 2012 03:59 PM (oZfic)

190 That Ron Paul guy is nuts! I met him as a kid in Brazil. I remember because he had a nifty black uniform.

Posted by: Dr. Algernop Krieger at January 20, 2012 03:59 PM (ggRof)

191 http://tinyurl.com/7wnvvow

Speaking of contempt for democracy.

Posted by: tcn at January 20, 2012 03:59 PM (hQX3k)

192 Posted by: c. up at January 20, 2012 03:51
PM (oZfic)

you make Joe biden sound intelligent. go hang out with your anti semitic friends dumbass

Posted by: buzzion at January 20, 2012 03:59 PM (knD73)

193 I've never been banned from RedState, of course I've only commented a handful of times. The place is just so much of the same old, same old that it's useless. Now that Romney is still doing well, it's like The View for malcontented conservatives.

Posted by: Lincolntf at January 20, 2012 03:59 PM (Qjh0I)

194 "I thought it just a joke when I heard it (and it was relayed that way) but with the way things are going I'm starting to wonder."

My working theories are lead, or some sort of biological agent sent to us by an alien race that isextremely waryof a Turtledove scenario.

Posted by: Crimso at January 20, 2012 03:59 PM (Xj3ni)

195 BREAKING:Obama Agricultural Dep investing heavily in company that makes fuel out of shit!

Posted by: steevy at January 20, 2012 03:59 PM (7W3wI)

196 Well hell, have at it then. Nothing like getting screwed again to remind you how you've already been rode hard and put away wet!

Posted by: giftogab at January 20, 2012 03:28 PM (SPVfc)
That makes no sense in relation to what I posted. Not sure what point you are trying to make. I'm not saying I'm for Paul, just that his strategy doesn't strike me as morally wrong or anything. The first ballot is whoever the delegates are pledged to, after that it's whoever the various people can get to vote for them. Lining it up so you have more people willing to vote for you seems like a smart tactical move.

Posted by: Monkeytoe at January 20, 2012 03:59 PM (sOx93)

197 Okay, so after Solyndra went tits up, you'd think the Republicans would be able to stop all further "safe bets" on "green" business ventures.But no, they can't because they suck.There is no reason for Vilsack to be able to get away with this.
Um, but you won, right? Not happy?
I mean, all those Boehners and McConnells aren't doing it for you?
Oh well. Whatcha gonna do?
Seriously. I don't have an answer. Paul doesn't provide an answer - unlike those 50 Boehners who were part of the problem, Paul at least wasn't part of the problem. But he doesn't have any solutions.
What can anyone do besides grab their ankles?
But hey we should be happy. We like this, no? Boehner, he's a good guy! Stand up conservative.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 04:00 PM (mf67L)

198 O/T but kind of interesting. I just popped over to Althouse (no fan of Newt she) after not checking it for several days and this is what she has to say about the Marianne interview:

Just watched the "Frontline" interview. I thought it was nothing (aside from the strange allegations against Marianne
having to do with meeting with an arms dealer and asking for $10
million). Basically, it's the same story we always knew. He had an
affair, and then they got divorced. I don't really understand her
motivation to go on camera to say that. She seems like a very grim and
sad woman.


I find her to be a pretty typical "feminist" and "Independent" so if that is her reaction I think Newt has little to fear in the general.

Posted by: Y-not typing with her nose at January 20, 2012 04:00 PM (5H6zj)

199 I thought Ace did appear on television with an Israeli tank.

Posted by: François Villon at January 20, 2012 04:00 PM (WnI5L)

200 Meanwhile I detected sweets and a bidding war.

Team Cthulu: Really bad hentai Doom
Team Meteor: cookies, cupcakes with sprinkles, CheeseCake all possibly delivered via stompy boot?

Meteor ftw.

Posted by: DaveA at January 20, 2012 04:00 PM (XFxB5)

201 Not waiting around saying "Huh, can you repeat that" after reading about the skins.

And Xipe Totec was one of the nicer ones.

Sometimes I think the Aztecs understood the world and human nature better than the Founders.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Team Meteor. Now with Cheesecake at January 20, 2012 04:00 PM (8y9MW)

202 Hannity just interviewed mittens. He doesn't have the same kind of energy when he interviews mittens as he does when he interview newt.

But for you Fred Thompson lovers out there, Sean is having him on after the commercial break. link (click "listen live")

Posted by: c. up at January 20, 2012 04:00 PM (oZfic)

203

MICHAEL M. MALIHI

wow. just wow. That'll get mandamused to the USSC, but damn, what a fun contempt charge.




Posted by: imp at January 20, 2012 04:01 PM (UaxA0)

204 If the last three years have taught us anything, it's that electing an untested, inexperienced ideologue as president is a really bad idea.

Throw in the anti-Semitism and the isolationism, and you have a candidate so radioactive, he damned near glows in the dark.

Nice work, Paultards. How does it feel to be Obama's ace in the hole?

Posted by: Brown Line at January 20, 2012 04:01 PM (VrNoa)

205
Entropy, ol chum, we have no argument that the Boehners and the McConnells are the problem.

But Ron Paul is not the answer.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 04:01 PM (G/zuv)

206 We're getting Romney out of a brokered convention, period. or the cheney warcock, with his new cyborg pumper you could actually call him heartless

Posted by: Jean at January 20, 2012 04:01 PM (WkuV6)

207 Yeah, I went there. Screw that Jew-baiting senile dwarf and his borderline-'tard followers.
Posted by: Slugs a'plenty at January 20, 2012 03:52 PM (2dU/2)

Most of the Paultards that I've met are heavily medicated. Seriously. A lot of schizophrenia moving around in that crowd.

Posted by: Soona at January 20, 2012 04:01 PM (OH+rd)

208 I believe it 100%. In Nevada the Ronulans totally screwed up the 2008 NV GOP convention by just that method. The convention was overloaded with Ron Paul delegates more so than their actual percentage in the party. At the start of the convention they started making motions to change rules and kept that up until there wasn't enough time for the voting. When everything was a giant clusterfuck that they turned it into themselves, they began weeping and gnashing their teeth about how unfairly it was all run.

Posted by: Peacerose at January 20, 2012 04:02 PM (t7fkI)

209 I need independent votes.....please keep bashing Ron Paul.
Posted by: Barrak Obama at January 20, 2012 03:53 PM (MWz/S)
Dude, half the people rallying behind RonPaul are hard lefties who are disappointed in you.
.....
LOFL.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 04:02 PM (mf67L)

210 166
Obama and Mr. Vilsack are just managing it.

...so you're district is fucked.


Posted by: zuul at January 20, 2012 03:52 PM (5wsU9)
Not necessarily. If they have to do this, they know they're in trouble and it's still a pretty R district. People "in the know" really felt Mrs Vilsack stood a slim chance and really that any other D would stand no chance.
Also, the plant's in North Bumblefuck, so there won't be a lot of residual cheering for this thing in the district. You don't care about something built in somebody else's town.
But it is totally sleazy.

Posted by: AmishDude at January 20, 2012 04:03 PM (T0NGe)

211 Seriously. A lot of schizophrenia moving around in that crowd.

It seems likely.

Posted by: Slugs a'plenty at January 20, 2012 04:03 PM (2dU/2)

212 182
LOL, you're an idiot.
On the contrary, Andrew, urine idiot.


Now, now. Remember that old rubber and glue saying:


I'm rubber you're glue;
you're also stupid so fuck you!

Posted by: s☺mej☼e at January 20, 2012 04:03 PM (oif6Y)

213 207 I picture Beavis walking around yelling "RON PAULLL WOOOO!!!"

Posted by: steevy at January 20, 2012 04:04 PM (7W3wI)

214 Re-posted from a thread below.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 20, 2012 04:04 PM (Hx5uv)

215 Entropy, ol chum, we have no argument that the Boehners and the McConnells are the problem.But Ron Paul is not the answer.
I said as much, so no argument there either.
I've never credibly supported the guy for POTUS - I've never believed he had a snowballs chance in hell of winning.
I just don't hate him with the passion of a thousand suns for it.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 04:05 PM (mf67L)

216 Between this and Gingrich's win in South Carolina, fuck it.

ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?

That's what the tea-party wants anyways, a spectacle. They don't want an outcome, they want vindication and blood to satisfy their wounded little freudian egos.

Bring on the one-hundred-thirty-nine lincoln-douglass debates of no less than 4 hours a piece carried by CSPAN and pigeon delivered burned DVD's, none of which will happen. Raise up that little salamander, lets fuck this party up.

Posted by: Uriah Heep at January 20, 2012 04:05 PM (447Af)

217 Come, Watson, come! The game is afoot. Not a word. Into your clothes and come!

Posted by: Sherlock Holmes at January 20, 2012 04:05 PM (4q5tP)

218 I picture Beavis walking around yelling "RON PAULLL WOOOO!!!"

Now I'm seeing Luap Nor walking around with his shirt pulled up over his head yelling, "I am the great Corn-hulio! I need T P for my bung-hole!"

Thanks a lot.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Team Meteor. Now with Cheesecake at January 20, 2012 04:05 PM (8y9MW)

219 Ron Paul makes his move on the 70th anniversary of the Wannsee Conference, coincidence or warning?

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 20, 2012 04:06 PM (Hx5uv)

220 "I am the great Corn-hulio! I need T P for my bung-hole!"
FIRE! FIRE! FIRE!

Posted by: alexthechick - kicking it old school at January 20, 2012 04:07 PM (VtjlW)

221
"Andrew, name one thing Ron Paul has ever done for libertarianism."
When you say one thing what you want? I could point at thethousand+ bills Paul has authored or co-authored. Or more obviously I could point to the fact that you're discussing him right now, that his message is spreading. How many Republicans voted not to compromise on the budget in 2011? How many voted not to raise the debt ceiling? How many voted against the Patriot Act? How many voted against the NDAA indefinite detention travesty?
If ahouse is on fire and one man goes out there and starts tossing buckets of water on the flames but is unable to overcome the fire, would you say he did nothing? House still burned down after all, technically speaking he didn't achieve anything.
What Paul has done is to NOT be a part of the problem and stand for the solution.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:07 PM (HS3dy)

222

Ron Paul fans like teh Pot. Cronic use of teh Pot causes schitzophrenic symptoms in a significant part of the population. Ron Paul fans exhibit many signs of schizoid disorders.

What's the connection?

Teh JOOOOOOOS!

So fuck you, that's why.

Posted by: imp at January 20, 2012 04:07 PM (UaxA0)

223
yeah, most of the anti-Ron Paul stuff here is over the top -- only half the shit he says is wrong, the other half he's dead-on-balls right.

But my concern is that he's a hindrance and his supporters are proving to be nuisances.

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 04:07 PM (G/zuv)

224 They say that liars have a hard believing anyone, perverts think everyone else is kinky, etc.
Ron Paul supporters see conspiracy theories everywhere.
I wonder why, hmm?

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at January 20, 2012 04:07 PM (epBek)

225

Actually it is Xipe Totec, probably pronounced Zippy Toe-tec, a most gruesome little Aztec god.
But then again, I suppose it's a matter of perspective. The Spaniards thought themselves more humane, but the Aztecs didn't burn people alive, the Spanish priests did.

Posted by: maddogg at January 20, 2012 04:07 PM (OlN4e)

226 219 The Holocaust never happened but the Joos deserved it.

Posted by: muslims everywhere at January 20, 2012 04:07 PM (7W3wI)

227 I am the Great Cornholio! I need R. P. for my bunghole!

Posted by: Cornholio at January 20, 2012 04:08 PM (ggRof)

228
What Paul has done is to NOT be a part of the problem and stand for the solution.
wow, that and two bits...

Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 04:08 PM (G/zuv)

229 218
I picture Beavis walking around yelling "RON PAULLL WOOOO!!!"Now
I'm seeing Luap Nor walking around with his shirt pulled up over his
head yelling, "I am the great Corn-hulio! I need T P for my bung-hole!"Thanks a lot.


They're not actually in session.

Posted by: Barack Obama at January 20, 2012 04:08 PM (oif6Y)

230 What Paul has done is to NOT be a part of the problem and stand for the solution.

The only solution Herr Dr. Paul and his followers want is a final one.

Posted by: Slugs a'plenty at January 20, 2012 04:09 PM (2dU/2)

231 Sometimes I think the Aztecs understood the world and human nature better than the Founders.

Ouch,
maybe rethink that no-drinking thing. A friday pitcher pizza lunch might help.

You could say they had more experience in the darkest parts of our hearts.

Posted by: DaveA at January 20, 2012 04:09 PM (XFxB5)

232 The delegate system heavily favors activism. Ron Paul's supporters are disproportionately activist.

But there's not enough of them to swing an election - just enough to make it fun.

Lighten up.

Posted by: l-train at January 20, 2012 04:09 PM (dHqot)

233 Gingrich's original election staff are probably feeling a little stupid about now. Good move guys!

Posted by: Jimmah at January 20, 2012 04:09 PM (TMeYE)

234 I could imagine Beavis ranting about the gold standard,silver dimes and the Bilderbergers.If he knew what any of those things were.

Posted by: steevy at January 20, 2012 04:09 PM (7W3wI)

235 The problem with the Paultards is they are assholes. The base of the Republican coalition are patriotic, social conservatives. The minor wings of the coalition have to show some respect for the base of the party.

The Paultards run around screaming "Fuck the American Empire" and mocking Christianity as equivalent to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

And that's because they are social retarded, mental defectives.

Hard to share a coalition with poop-flinging monkeys like that.

Posted by: Clubber Lang at January 20, 2012 04:09 PM (QcFbt)

236 Team Cthulu: Really bad hentai DoomTeam Meteor: cookies, cupcakes with sprinkles, CheeseCake all possibly delivered via stompy boot?Meteor ftw.
Respect, bitches.

Posted by: alexthechick love, despair, etc. at January 20, 2012 04:10 PM (VtjlW)

237 Ron Paul's only hope? No, if Newt and Santorum drop out after Florida, I can see Ron Paul splitting victories with Romney the rest of the way. Even 'never going to vote for Ron Paul' voters will start to privately consider voting for him. So, no, there is another more legitimate path to the nomination for him.

Posted by: doug at January 20, 2012 04:10 PM (gUGI6)

238
"I thought Ace did appear on television with an Israeli tank. "
Slight correction. It was an American tank, it just had an Israeli flag painted on it.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:10 PM (HS3dy)

239 You know how I know Ron Paul is gay?

Because he likes Coldplay.

Posted by: nickless at January 20, 2012 04:11 PM (MMC8r)

240

the Aztecs didn't burn people alive, the Spanish priests did.

Posted by: maddogg


Yeah, the whole "removing the beating heart of victims with a volcano-glass knife" thing was just patty-cake, really.

Posted by: imp at January 20, 2012 04:11 PM (UaxA0)

241 If there's any brokering to be done it will be done before the first ballot. You'll never see a second ballot at a national convention again.

This, like most of Ron Paul's ideas, is a pipe dream.

Posted by: Rocks at January 20, 2012 04:11 PM (Q1lie)

242 Speaking of election staff, if your boss "suspends" his or her campaign, are you technically laid off? These are the things that interest me.

Posted by: Jimmah at January 20, 2012 04:12 PM (TMeYE)

243 This, like most of Ron Paul's ideas, is a pipe dream.
Literally.

Posted by: steevy at January 20, 2012 04:13 PM (7W3wI)

244 Yeah, the whole "removing the beating heart of victims with a volcano-glass knife" thing was just patty-cake, really.
Posted by: imp at January 20, 2012 04:11 PM (UaxA0)
It was over in 10 seconds. the burning at the stake could take hours to kill.

Posted by: maddogg at January 20, 2012 04:13 PM (OlN4e)

245 You could say they had more experience in the darkest parts of our hearts.

They certainly saw more of them.

But, as someone mentioned above- at least they killed people before they flayed them. The Spanish weren't so civilized.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Team Meteor. Now with Cheesecake at January 20, 2012 04:13 PM (8y9MW)

246 That's what the tea-party wants anyways, a spectacle. They don't want an outcome, they want vindication and blood to satisfy their wounded little freudian egos. Bring on the one-hundred-thirty-nine lincoln-douglass debates of no less than 4 hours a piece carried by CSPAN and pigeon delivered burned DVD's, none of which will happen. Raise up that little salamander, lets fuck this party up.
Posted by: Uriah Heep at January 20, 2012 04:05 PM (447Af)

After reading that, I will always consider you full of shit.

Posted by: Soona at January 20, 2012 04:13 PM (OH+rd)

247 242 They probably don't get fired right away,have to run the thing down.

Posted by: steevy at January 20, 2012 04:13 PM (7W3wI)

248 Reminds me of a funny wrestling bit.
In the 90s there was a big, stupid WCW PPV where Hulk Hogan and the Macho Man had to defeat a gauntlet of 8 other wrestlers who had vowed to "destroy Hulkamania". It was supposed to be this big deal where the Hulk overcomes the odds.

The very last guy they had to face was gonna be a guy named, "The Final Solution".

At the last moment, somebody told them how insanely stupid that idea was and they did a last minute change to "The Ultimate Solution".

Posted by: Clubber Lang at January 20, 2012 04:14 PM (QcFbt)

249
"...mocking Christianity as equivalent to the Flying Spaghetti Monster."
Would love you to cite some references for this one. I got to church every Sunday. I fully support Paul. Everyone I know that also supports Paul is Christian, with most of them being very active in their respective churches.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:14 PM (HS3dy)

250 He cannot be allowed to ruin this election for us.


Posted by: soothsayer at January 20, 2012 03:28 PM (G/zuv)
He already has.
He has injected insanity into the already stupid Republican Party. We have spent real, actual oxygen debating whether we should return to the gold standard and close all of our bases overseas and apologize to Al Qaeda for irritating them so much that they blew up a few buildings in downtown Manhattan. And of course the big ticket item in the Ron Paul insanity store: cut off the filthy Joos so they have to fend for themselves against a nuclear Iran.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJconservative) at January 20, 2012 04:14 PM (nEUpB)

251 After reading that, I will always consider you full of shit.
Posted by: Soona at January 20, 2012 04:13 PM (OH+rd)
Yeah, give a clue as to what Uriah is a Heep of.

Posted by: maddogg at January 20, 2012 04:15 PM (OlN4e)

252 I'm not pleased with Gingrich's personal life, but I can't afford Romney. I have no confidence that he will stop obamacare and lower taxes. I see him rolling over every time a donk sez boo.

Posted by: mike at January 20, 2012 04:15 PM (WnI5L)

253 Where Laup Nor is out of the running is the whole; "We had it coming on 911". Period, and paragraph. Him along with everyone who thinks that way is not my countryman. You either cheer for the home team or you can DIAF.

Posted by: Sgt. Fury at January 20, 2012 04:15 PM (r2dnH)

254 I wouldn't want to be burned at the stake but I doubt it took hours.Smoke inhalation alone would knock you out shortly and than kill you.It was fairly common to strangle people before they were burned at the stake as a "mercy".

Posted by: steevy at January 20, 2012 04:15 PM (7W3wI)

255 Yeah, the whole "removing the beating heart of victims with a volcano-glass knife" thing was just patty-cake, really.

Yeah, well, that was for special occassions, too. Not "just because."

The "just because" sacrifices were killed by the simple expedient of kicking them down a very tall, very steep set of stairs. (Imagine being stood on the top of Machu Pichu (or however it's spelled) and kicked off the top of one of those ziggeruts.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Team Meteor. Now with Cheesecake at January 20, 2012 04:15 PM (8y9MW)

256 more humane, but the Aztecs didn't burn people alive, the Spanish priests did.

Posted by: maddogg at January 20, 2012 04:07 PM (OlN4e)
yeah, we only cut out their beating hearts, man. Oh, and enslaved every tribe we could find, after murdering those who couldn't work.
Peace out......

Posted by: the Aztecs at January 20, 2012 04:15 PM (UqKQV)

257 Stuffing caucuses. Vote shenanigans at the convention. The clearly more popular candidate being sidelined. Sounds an awful lot like what Obama did to Hillary four years ago.

Still, none of this matters. Mitt will have a very real and insurmountable majority going into the convention. It will not be brokered.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at January 20, 2012 04:16 PM (QxGmu)

258 Wrong Paul!11!!!
Maybe after he's tossed out he'll become a shill for eyebrow merkins.

Posted by: Count de Monet at January 20, 2012 04:16 PM (4q5tP)

259
seeking power without going through the bothersome step of ever securing permission




Oh, sorry
Posted by: Virgina - Champaign Room Ballot Access


Sorry too
Posted by Iowa: You Don't Expect Us to Court All Those Ballots, Do You?

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at January 20, 2012 04:16 PM (3wBRE)

260 What Paul has done is to NOT be a part of the problem and stand for the solution.

What Paul has done is earmark, earmark, earmark. Oh, but he does screech Ayn Randian boilerplate platitudes, so fools follow him like a prophet.

By the way, racial tension, antisemitism, and paranoia are problems.

Posted by: sandy burger at January 20, 2012 04:16 PM (ErTq7)

261
"The only solution Herr Dr. Paul and his followers want is a final one."
What does this mean?

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:16 PM (HS3dy)

262 If these are the tactics Luap Nor cultists think will get him nominated, AND that they were tried in the last election, why wasn't he the 2008 nominee?

Posted by: Soona at January 20, 2012 04:16 PM (OH+rd)

263 254 I wouldn't want to be burned at the stake but I doubt it took hours.Smoke inhalation alone would knock you out shortly and than kill you.It was fairly common to strangle people before they were burned at the stake as a "mercy".
Posted by: steevy at January 20, 2012 04:15 PM (7W3wI)
That would depend on the competance of the burner, and whether he wanted you to suffer long or not.

Posted by: maddogg at January 20, 2012 04:17 PM (OlN4e)

264 This delegate story is abrilliant strategy by the Paul campaign to raise funds. Paultardsrequire periodicprodding with wild stories to keep the money flowing. No party is going to nominate a man who would (if he lives long enough) turn 80 during a first term.
As for ZeroHedge, I have made some money tradingby following the articles. I only read the comment section for laughs and to make trouble.

Posted by: AZ US Atty's Office at January 20, 2012 04:17 PM (Usk3+)

265 Maybe people support him because they realize that the rest of the candidates are two sides of the same f'n coin and they've had it with all of them. Newt--please, the man is more egotistical than Obama himself. Any of the social conservatives--please. People are so done with social issues in politics. I guess I shouldn't say 'people', but independents sure are and who do you suppose we need to beat Obama? The Republican candidates make no mention of fixing the things the let the financial crash happen. So, Ron Paul it is for many people who see no other choice. Your daily barrage of insults may make them stay home. Is that what you want?

Posted by: mary at January 20, 2012 04:18 PM (4dpZM)

266 Would love you to cite some references for this one.
Yeah right, I've tried that.
If people had to actually reference the ridiculous bullshit they alledge about all the republican candidates it would probably nuke 85% of all commentary.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 04:18 PM (mf67L)

267 Smoke inhalation alone would knock you out shortly and than kill you.
Funnily enough, the Inquisition knew that. So they built the bonfires in such a way that most of the smoke wouldn't cling around you until you'd had several minutes, at least, of excruciating pain.

The best ones could set up a chimney effect so you'd just pass out from the pain, not from the smoke.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Team Meteor. Now with Cheesecake at January 20, 2012 04:18 PM (8y9MW)

268 It's not like the Spanish burned people at the stake to celebrate Easter.

Posted by: Waterhouse at January 20, 2012 04:18 PM (hNdbt)

269 I remain convinced that Ron Paul is only interested in getting his ideas a stage, not winning.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at January 20, 2012 04:18 PM (r4wIV)

270
"What Paul has done is earmark, earmark, earmark."
Oh, you mean on the few times he votes for a bill he occaisionally managed to get some of his constituents money brought back to them? Yes, clearly a heinous crime.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:19 PM (HS3dy)

271 Fear me, bitches

Posted by: Luap Nor, inventor of the telekinetic howitzer, is the grandmaster of the Nosferatu Illuminati Temp at January 20, 2012 04:19 PM (UqKQV)

272 Suffice it to say,man has done barbaric things to one another since the beginning.Our favorite stoneage throwbacks the muslims are just nostalgic for old times.

Posted by: steevy at January 20, 2012 04:19 PM (7W3wI)

273 I heard Ron Paul has a "mistress" who is actually a tranny who goes by the name Greta Von Hindenburg. Their favorite activity? They call it "Little Brown Mustache."

True story.

Posted by: CNNN at January 20, 2012 04:20 PM (Gc/Qi)

274 Damn sock off!

Posted by: Meremortal at January 20, 2012 04:20 PM (Usk3+)

275 You know, if I found out that Stormfront and I supported the same candidate, it might force a little re-think...


But not for the Paulians, I guess...

Posted by: nickless at January 20, 2012 04:20 PM (MMC8r)

276 I've never credibly supported the guy for POTUS - I've never believed he had a snowballs chance in hell of winning.

Come on, 'Trope, we all know you're going to vote for me when it comes down to it. You haven't been defending me every time my name comes up and declaring I'm "always" right for nothing.

Of course, this was a condition of accepting the Paul Patriots' Power Ring we sent out in boxes of Corn Pops last summer. But nobody forced you people to take those rings!

Posted by: Call Me DOCTOR Ron Fucking Paul at January 20, 2012 04:20 PM (Po0Xn)

277 This delegate story is a brilliant strategy by the Paul campaign to raise funds. Paultards require periodic prodding with wild stories to keep the money flowing. No party is going to nominate a man who would (if he lives long enough) turn 80 during a first term.
Yeah... stupid autistic paultards, falling for dumbass stories like this. LOL.
Oh... shit wait.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 04:20 PM (mf67L)

278 BREAKING:Obama Agricultural Dep investing heavily in company that makes fuel out of shit!

In the abstract, I like the concept of getting something useful out of waste. But I don't want the federal gov't funding the attempt.

Also, the plant's in North Bumblefuck, so there won't be a lot of
residual cheering for this thing in the district. You don't care about
something built in somebody else's town.

Maybe. On the other hand, people in North Bumblefuck will drive an hour to "somebody else's town" for a job, because North Bumblefuck sucks hard if you don't own farmland or have a sweet gov't paycheck.

I'm sure the profit from this particular project will be lining the pockets of someone connected to the Vilsacks, though.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 20, 2012 04:20 PM (ZKzrr)

279 BTW, I'm not defending the Aztecs, they were brutal and bloodthirsty and warlike. They met their match is Cortez, and then some. The Axtecs made a lot of enemies in Mexico. You think Cortez and 100 Spaniards conquered the Aztec Empire by themselves? Not.

Posted by: maddogg at January 20, 2012 04:20 PM (OlN4e)

280 "There's an arrogant contempt of democracy here."

Libertarian Fascism?

Posted by: Vercingetorix at January 20, 2012 04:21 PM (pOUA4)

281 What does this mean?

Herr Dr. Paul's followers are rabid anti-Semites. You're not too bright, are you?

Posted by: Slugs a'plenty at January 20, 2012 04:21 PM (2dU/2)

282 Paul has a record of not accomplishing anything, because he doesn't understand that he's just a small part of a big machine, and you don't get that to move by yanking as hard as you can.

The opposition took power through incrementalism because it *works*.

Paul's trying to get a car through the front door of his house, and instead of disassembling it and taking the pieces through, he parked it against the door frame and spent decades trying to push it through.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 20, 2012 04:21 PM (bxiXv)

283


It was over in 10 seconds. the burning at the stake could take hours to kill.

Posted by: maddogg

Not true. Usually burning victims died from smoke inhalation before the body even started to burn. If not, then as soon as the fire got going, breathing in flames just once would cause massive blistering and, essentially, drowning almost instantly.

Maybe there were people who slow roasted to bring out that real smokey flavor, but not the Inquisition.

Posted by: imp at January 20, 2012 04:21 PM (UaxA0)

284 Oh, you mean on the few times he votes for a bill he occaisionally managed to get some of his constituents money brought back to them? Yes, clearly a heinous crime.

He sticks earmarks in bills he votes against as well.

He's one of the worst earmark abusers in the House. It's one hell of a lot more than "occasionally" that he lards up a bill to bring back pork for his district.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 20, 2012 04:21 PM (SY2Kh)

285 Silver dimes !!!!!!!!

Posted by: Luap Nor, inventor of the telekinetic howitzer, grandmaster of Nosferatu Illuminati Templars, at January 20, 2012 04:21 PM (UqKQV)

286 Spanish guerrileros used to like to hang a man upside down and light a fireunder his head.Saw you in half between 2 planks(like the magic trick but for reals!).Nail you to barn doors or crucify you.

Posted by: steevy at January 20, 2012 04:21 PM (7W3wI)

287 What does this mean?
Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:16 PM (HS3dy)
Look up Adolph Eichmann.

Posted by: ErikW at January 20, 2012 04:22 PM (mqV0Z)

288 Is that what you want?Posted by: mary at January 20, 2012 04:18 PM (4dpZM) What I want is not to be associated with assholes who think that 9-11 was an inside job at worst, or deserved for our imperialism at best. That is what I want.

Posted by: Sgt. Fury at January 20, 2012 04:22 PM (r2dnH)

289 This was their plan last year, too. I am in his district, in his home town, and the crazies around here define the word. They tried this last time around at the county/senatorial district level. They even went so far as to sign a petition and present it to our congressional district's National Elector to get him to switch to RP at the last minute. Go poke around on any open RP group on Meet Up. They spell it out for their members.

Posted by: SouthCounty at January 20, 2012 04:22 PM (PfjdQ)

290 Who'd a thunk it?


Though too few noticed, this month Moody’s downgraded Illinois state debt to A2 from A1, the lowest among the 50 states. That’s worse even than California. The state’s cost of borrowing for $800 million of new 10-year general obligation bonds rose to 3.1%—which is 110 basis points higher than the 2% on top-rated 10-year bonds of more financially secure states.
This wasn’t supposed to happen. Only a year ago, Governor Pat Quinn and his fellow Democrats raised individual income taxes by 67% and the corporate tax rate by 46%. They did it to raise $7 billion in revenue, as the Governor put it, to “get Illinois back on fiscal sound footing” and improve the state’s credit rating.
So much for that. In its downgrade statement, Moody’s panned Illinois lawmakers for “a legislative session in which the state took no steps to implement lasting solutions to its severe pension underfunding or to its chronic bill payment delays.” An analysis by Bloomberg finds that the assets in the pension fund will only cover “45% of projected liabilities, the least of any state.” And—no surprise—in part because the tax increases have caused companies to leave Illinois, the state budget office confesses that as of this month the state still has $6.8 billion in unpaid bills and unaddressed obligations.
It's almost as if elections AND taxes have consequences.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 20, 2012 04:23 PM (Hx5uv)

291 Chuck Norris has endorsed Gingrich.

Chuck Norris, identified this election as the endorsement most sought
after by Republicans, says he’s throwing his considerable influence
behind the campaign for president in 2012 of former House Speaker Newt
Gingrich because “we need a veteran of political war who has already
fought Goliath.”

Posted by: Not an Artist at January 20, 2012 04:23 PM (fOPv7)

292 The only thing dumber than Ericson’s article is anyone who believes it.
My god, a good conspiracy theory has to have some degree of plausibility to it.

Posted by: jwest at January 20, 2012 04:23 PM (FdndL)

293 Burning was done to purify those who were infested with devils

American and English witches were not burned--that was a Continental thing

Am / Brit witches were hanged

Posted by: the Venerable Bede at January 20, 2012 04:23 PM (UqKQV)

294

BTW, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you Allen, it could take minutes, sure, but not hours.

That was the japanese in the time of the shogun. Boiling the condemned in pots of water all night.

Posted by: imp at January 20, 2012 04:24 PM (UaxA0)

295 they want vindication and blood to satisfy their wounded little freudian egos.



Actually for retribution for what Progressives, and RINO establishment Republicans have done to my country.


It looks more and more each day like F* it, it can't be saved; and the urge to bow down in front of Anarchy and pledge myself to his teachings is strong. So why don't you tell your prissy little candidates to busy themselves with coming up with a plan that might save this bitch, so that I might actually give a F* about who is nominated beyond simply seeking vengeance on the Republican party for the piss poor candidates they gave me.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at January 20, 2012 04:24 PM (0q2P7)

296 Team Cthulu: Really bad hentai DoomTeam Meteor: cookies, cupcakes with sprinkles, CheeseCake all possibly delivered via stompy boot?Meteor ftw.
Respect, bitches.
Posted by: alexthechick love, despair, etc. at January 20, 2012 04:10 PM (VtjlW)
Yeah, but Team Meteor doesn't get to use cool words like 'eldritch' or 'cyclopean'.
Cthulu rocks. “Tekeli-li! Tekeli-li!”

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 04:24 PM (vtiE6)

297 By the way, racial tension, antisemitism, and paranoia are problems.



Posted by: sandy burger at January 20, 2012 04:16 PM (ErTq7)
really, nah....

Posted by: dem obot at January 20, 2012 04:24 PM (oZfic)

298 293 Shoulda burned them after.Just to be sure.

Posted by: steevy at January 20, 2012 04:25 PM (7W3wI)

299 "The only solution Herr Dr. Paul and his followers want is a final one."
What does this mean?
Andrew, it's a Hitler reference. It means Paul wants to exterminate the Jews.
Personally I haven't heard him advocate for that either, seems kind of odd for a libertarian, but charges of racism and comparisons to Hitler are very Serious Fuckin Business and I always accept them at face value because no one would ever lie about something like that.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 04:25 PM (mf67L)

300 "There's an arrogant contempt of democracy here."

Um, libertarians don't believe democracy is valuable in and of itself. They believe freedom is the valuable thing and democracy is only good in so far as it helps freedom.

Posted by: Texan Economist at January 20, 2012 04:25 PM (TC/9F)

301 That’s worse even than California.

Somebody's more boned than us. PARTY!!!

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at January 20, 2012 04:25 PM (0q2P7)

302 I saw Chuck Norris fight in a tournament in Ell Lay in 1970 -- he was The Real ( ass kicking ) Deal. Believe it......

Posted by: someone other than Mike Stone at January 20, 2012 04:25 PM (UqKQV)

303 Usually burning victims died from smoke inhalation before the body even started to burn.

To solve that problem you should use propane and propane accessories.

Posted by: Hank Hill at January 20, 2012 04:25 PM (Hx5uv)

304 American and English witches were not burned--that was a Continental thing

Done more on Jews than on "witches" anyway.
Also enemies of the Spanish Crown, since the Spanish Inquisition (as opposed to the Papal Inquisition) answered directly to the Spanish Habsburgs (and, specifically, the King).

By comparison, the Papal Inquisition were positively playful kittens.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Team Meteor. Now with Cheesecake at January 20, 2012 04:25 PM (8y9MW)

305 They say Ron Paul once shot a man for snoring.

Which is only partially true. It wasn't a man, it was a woman. He didn't shoot her, he gave her a fatal overdose of medication. She wasn't snoring, she was in labor.

Yes, it happened. Why would we lie to you?

Posted by: CNNN at January 20, 2012 04:26 PM (Gc/Qi)

306 BTW, I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you Allen, it could take minutes, sure, but not hours.

Yeah, I've heard the "hours" claim, and I guess it's possible that it could take that long actually to die, but I can't see any way that you'd be conscious for the whole time.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) Team Meteor. Now with Cheesecake at January 20, 2012 04:27 PM (8y9MW)

307 I keep asking: where does Ron Paul get all his money from?

This is looking more and more like a Soros-funded false-flag operation to keep the Republicans fragmented.

Posted by: Trimegistus at January 20, 2012 04:27 PM (QBrz4)

308 I always accept them at face value because no one would ever lie about something like that.

Oh, I'm lying. Yep, that's it. Not like his followers are constantly going off about "Jew bankers" or "globalists" or "the Zionist-controlled media". Oh no, just my imagination.

And those newsletters? Written by the Mossad to discredit him. Yeah, that's the ticket.

Posted by: Slugs a'plenty at January 20, 2012 04:27 PM (2dU/2)

309 305 They say Ron Paul once shot a man for snoring.
I thought that was John Wesley Hardin.

Posted by: maddogg at January 20, 2012 04:27 PM (OlN4e)

310 I'm still not convinced the current crop of candidates are worth the win.

If I could just take 90% of Luap Nor's positions and scalpel out the other bits of crazy, I'd be delighted. Rand Paul, are you listening?

1) Not isolationism, but no World Policing either. We help our friends, and stay out on the other stuff.
2) No more gold standard talk, just talk Strong Dollar
3) Advocate Freedom and a Culture of Life

Posted by: GergS at January 20, 2012 04:27 PM (dptRY)

311
"There's an arrogant contempt of democracy here."
the arrogant contempt of democracy lies in the leadership of both major parties and their butt-kissers.
they are the ones who intentionally set up a system where only their pre-approved canidates have any chance of winning, as long as the Paul people don't do anything illegal I say "More Power to Them!"

Posted by: Shoey at January 20, 2012 04:27 PM (jdOk/)

312 Your daily barrage of insults may make them stay home. Is that what you want?

Oh, please. Most of Paul's supporters are either going to write in Herr Docktor Paul whether he runs or not, or vote Obama. Cultists don't drop their idol so easily. The rest are simply unaware of how bugfuck crazy he is and aren't fully committed to him.

With that, it's perfectly safe to remind Paultards that they're a bunch of mentally defective, obnoxious fools who would be better suited to a padded room than a voting booth.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at January 20, 2012 04:28 PM (SY2Kh)

313 "There's an arrogant contempt of democracy here."

Whoa! You're right. A system in which the democratic process only elects representatives who may go on to act against the voters immediate wishes. Whoever set up a system like that obviously doesn't know the majority is always right.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at January 20, 2012 04:28 PM (0q2P7)

314 307
I keep asking: where does Ron Paul get all his money from?

Don't look at us!

Posted by: Joos at January 20, 2012 04:29 PM (Po0Xn)

315 So, Ron Paul it is for many people who see no other choice. Your daily barrage of insults may make them stay home. Is that what you want?
Why, yes. Yes it is.


The views expressed above are solely those of Count de Monet and may not reflect the views of the Head Ewok, Cob Loggers, Horde CommonTaters, their wives and/or SweetYoungThings, their husbands and/or boytoys, their dogs, cats, or other companion animal menageries, Italian cruise ship captains, or fapping ghosts.

Posted by: Count de Monet at January 20, 2012 04:29 PM (4q5tP)

316 If we hadreally been running the fiscal system for all these years, would the USA be $15 trillion in debt?
Idiots.

Posted by: Da Jooos at January 20, 2012 04:30 PM (Usk3+)

317 Can someone put Ron Paul in a hermetically sealed mayonnaise jar?

Posted by: steevy at January 20, 2012 04:30 PM (7W3wI)

318 Mildly entertaining for a Friday afternoon. Anarchists fretting about lack of diversity and too much top-down structure.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 20, 2012 04:30 PM (ZKzrr)

319 I heard Ron Paul has a "mistress" who is actually a tranny who goes by the name Greta Von Hindenburg. Their favorite activity? They call it "Little Brown Mustache." True story.
Posted by: CNNN at January 20, 2012 04:20 PM (Gc/Qi)

Nah. That's just someone's fantasy. Luap Nor is secretly married to Newt's ex-wife. True fact.

Posted by: Soona at January 20, 2012 04:30 PM (OH+rd)

320 Look, twerps, I wouldn't know a convention delegate from a compact disc player and I wouldn't know a brokered convention from a real estate broker, but that doesn't matter for purposes of this rant.
I don't know who I'd like to win the nomination. As a Dittohead I can't think for myself. I need General Rush Limbaugh, M.D., to spoon feed me my opinions, like a catatonic dementia patient needs a nurse to receive their pablum.
Ultimately it's not for me to say who should be the nominee. It's God's will.
In any case I'll be sitting out the general election, to clear the cobwebs from my mind, as I gear up for the Rapture andfor St. Sarah of the Iditarod.
Palin-Angle, '16

Posted by: Totally Irrational Political Malcontent at January 20, 2012 04:31 PM (f8XyF)

321 Matter, it does not; we control everything, anyway.

Like Lenny Bruce said: Emmis

Posted by: Jooos behind the doors and curtains at January 20, 2012 04:31 PM (UqKQV)

322
"Look up Adolph Eichmann."
Ah, another person that is obsessed with Israel, gotcha.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:32 PM (HS3dy)

323 American and English witches were not burned--that was a Continental thingAm / Brit witches were hanged

Who crushed them to death under stones?

Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 20, 2012 04:33 PM (ZKzrr)

324 If your study of mankind's history leaves no doubt that the Catholic Church is responsible for the majority of the atrocities we have inflicted upon our own, you might be a liberal.

Posted by: Jeff fsomethin at January 20, 2012 04:33 PM (oif6Y)

325 Ah, another person that is obsessed with Israel, gotcha.

Finally! I was wondering how long a Paultard could go without mentioning Israel.

Posted by: Slugs a'plenty at January 20, 2012 04:34 PM (2dU/2)

326 <i>It was over in 10 seconds. the burning at the stake could take hours to kill.
Posted by: maddogg</i>

Not to get all defendy about the Inquisition or whoever it was burned people, but you have some serious loss of perspective here.
1. Much fewer people were burned than the Aztecs sacrificed.
2. Most people who were burned were strangled first. The burning was more symbolic than anything in most cases.
3. The Aztecs didn't just line you up and then take your heart. They did all sorts of other stuff, sometimes before they took your heart. Like they would flay you alive. Or they would do a mock battle where you were chained on a rock with a sword made of feathers and had to fight expert swordsmen who got style points if instead of just killing you they made fine surface cuts and wore you down little by little.
4. At least in theory, you knew what you needed to do to avoid getting burned. Don't be a heretic, or recant if you were, and you can live. But with the Aztecs, they needed their thousands of annual victims, they didn't wait around for you to commit crimes.
Look, the Spanish were vile. The Conquistadors were some of the most ruthless, vicious bastards in the history of the world. And when they met the Aztecs, the Spanish were *horrified*. There is a reason for that.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at January 20, 2012 04:34 PM (epBek)

327 Who crushed them to death under stones?
That was if they refused to either admit or deny the charge against them of being a witch. If you entered a plea, no crushing but other bad things could happen.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 20, 2012 04:35 PM (Hx5uv)

328 Who crushed them to death under stones?

Technically, that didn't happen to a witch because Giles Corey was a man.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 20, 2012 04:35 PM (e0xKF)

329 Yeah, you guys need to get over the Israel thing.

Posted by: The Ron Paul supporters at Stormfront at January 20, 2012 04:35 PM (MMC8r)

330
"He sticks earmarks in bills he votes against as well."
Valid point, although, again, so what?

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:36 PM (HS3dy)

331
"Libertarian Fascism?"
nice

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:36 PM (HS3dy)

332 If your study of mankind's history leaves no doubt that the Catholic
Church is responsible for the majority of the atrocities we have
inflicted upon our own, you might be a liberal.

Who's responsible for Jehovah's Witnesses?

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 20, 2012 04:37 PM (Hx5uv)

333 Who crushed them to death under stones?
Posted by: HeatherRadish

That was the Ango-American punishment for refusing to plead guilty or not guilty. if you refused to plead, they couldn't have the trial legally, so they'd put you under a press and keep adding more stones until you 'tapped out' and were willing to make your plea.
Some accused criminals, including witches, kept going under the stones until they died, because if you were never convicted, your estate couldn't be confiscated, so your kids would still inherit. Or else because of pride.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at January 20, 2012 04:37 PM (epBek)

334 253
Where Laup Nor is out of the running is the whole; "We had it coming on
911". Period, and paragraph. Him along with everyone who thinks that way
is not my countryman. You either cheer for the home team or you can
DIAF.

Posted by: Sgt. Fury at January 20, 2012 04:15 PM (r2dnH)
Yes, this is the deal killer. There's a lot I'm willing to tolerate but Trutherism isn't one of them. No matter how many ideas of RP's that I can agree with -- and there are some -- the Trutherism destroys any credibility he might have otherwise had with me.

Posted by: joncelli, too stressed by half at January 20, 2012 04:37 PM (RD7QR)

335 322

"Look up Adolph Eichmann."
Ah, another person that is obsessed with Israel, gotcha.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:32 PM (HS3dy)

That's interesting, I didn't realize Eichmann had anything to do with the State of Israel.It always comes back to Teh Zionistz with Ronulans, sooner or later.

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at January 20, 2012 04:37 PM (Po0Xn)

336
"Paul has a record of not accomplishing anything, because he doesn't understand that he's just a small part of a big machine, and you don't get that to move by yanking as hard as you can."
Oh, so what you're saying is that Paul should compromise on his principles?

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:37 PM (HS3dy)

337 In 2008 a Ronulan wrote this:

"The only way for Ron Paul to become President is if he gets the GOP nomination; The only way for Ron Paul to get the GOP nomination is if we become delegates. As delegates, we’ll be voting to pick the GOP nominee just like the electors in the electoral college vote to pick the President; Delegates determine and decide who the GOP nominee is—it’s that critical!


There hasn’t been a brokered convention for more than 60 years! And
the good news is that Ron Paul doesn’t have to win a single state to get
the GOP nomination; He just needs to win the
delegates! So your delegate vote will count that much more; In other
words, Ron Paul can secure the GOP nomination with your vote!"http://justbarkingmad.com/?p=2707

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at January 20, 2012 04:39 PM (P2PWk)

338 The Aztecs met their match not in Cortez but in the measles, mumps, chicken pox, flu, etc, etc.

How did a hundred men defeat tens of thousands?

Not that hard when they're all shitting themselves, can't breathe and are covered in oozing sores.

95%+ of the death in the Americas were due to disease. And the 2nd effects of disease - like starvation. Hard to work the fields or go hunting when the everybody is down with the flu. And it was just wave after wave of disease.

Not a surprise the Spaniards thought it was their divine right -- God was striking down the heathens left and right.

Posted by: Clubber Lang at January 20, 2012 04:39 PM (QcFbt)

339 As a DittoheadYou know what the average Dittohead can do that your average Obama supporter cannot?
Correctly identify the type of government of the United States
Name the party in control of the House and Senate.
Name the Vice President, Speaker of the House, House Majority Leader, House Minority Leader, Senate Majority Leader, Senate Minority Leader.

So how exactly does thinking work when you don't know anything?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at January 20, 2012 04:39 PM (0q2P7)

340 Who crushed them to death under stones?
That was an interrogation technique.
He was suppose to confess before he got squashed to death. Woops.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 04:39 PM (mf67L)

341 It always comes back to Teh Zionistz with Ronulans, sooner or later.

Yep. No matter the topic, somehow the Paultards will find a way to mention them.

Posted by: Slugs a'plenty at January 20, 2012 04:39 PM (2dU/2)

342
"That's interesting, I didn't realize Eichmann had anything to do with the State of Israel. It always comes back to Teh Zionistz with Ronulans, sooner or later."
If your reference isn't to Israel then what is it?Are you guys really that disingenous? You are bring up Israel, Jews, Nazis, Holocaust, and somehow we're the ones stuck on this subject?
What does any of that have to do with the price of tea in China?

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:40 PM (HS3dy)

343 You know what the average Dittohead can do that your average Obama supporter cannot?
You are wrong to assume the guy who wrote that is an Obama supporter.
Try Mitt Romney.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 04:40 PM (mf67L)

344 There's a lot I'm willing to tolerate but Trutherism isn't one of them.

We have a local independent coffee shop that I used to go to a lot but then one day a saw that they were selling truther videos. There was a big sign saying that this didn't necessarily reflect the views of management but it was close enough for me. I never have and i never will go back.

Posted by: WalrusRex at January 20, 2012 04:41 PM (Hx5uv)

345 Are you guys really that disingenous?
Yes they are.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 04:41 PM (mf67L)

346 Oh, so what you're saying is that Paul should compromise on his principles?

Only 2/5ths of them. He can keep the other 3/5ths, that's the gold standard yes?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at January 20, 2012 04:41 PM (0q2P7)

347 There was a big sign saying that this didn't necessarily reflect the views of management but it was close enough for me.

Seems odd that the management would still let those videos be sold if they didn't support that viewpoint.

Posted by: Slugs a'plenty at January 20, 2012 04:42 PM (2dU/2)

348
"You know what the average Dittohead can do that your average Obama supporter cannot?...Correctly identify the type of government of the United States"
But then they fail when it comes to execution. Case in point - they actually think Rick Santorum is a conservative.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:42 PM (HS3dy)

349 Yes, this is the deal killer. There's a lot I'm willing to tolerate but Trutherism isn't one of them. No matter how many ideas of RP's that I can agree with -- and there are some -- the Trutherism destroys any credibility he might have otherwise had with me.
Posted by: joncelli, too stressed by half at January 20, 2012 04:37 PM (RD7QR)

Definitely that, but his whole foreign policy attitude sucks the extreme leftist cock.

Posted by: Soona at January 20, 2012 04:43 PM (OH+rd)

350 If your reference isn't to Israel then what is it?

Well, that's the eternal Ron Paul question, isn't it?

If it doesn't all come back to Israel, then what?

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at January 20, 2012 04:43 PM (Po0Xn)

351 But then they fail when it comes to execution. Case in point - they actually think Rick Santorum is a conservative.

Compared to Newt and Romney, he is. Compared to Obama he is William F*ing Buckley. Compared to Paul he is sane.


Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at January 20, 2012 04:45 PM (0q2P7)

352
"Well, that's the eternal Ron Paul question, isn't it? If it doesn't all come back to Israel, then what?"
You are the one brining up Israel in this thread, not the Paul supporters.
Tell me, how many times has Paul brought up Israel in the GOP debates compared with the other candidates? Shall we count?

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:46 PM (HS3dy)

353 Seems odd that the management would still let those videos be sold if they didn't support that viewpoint.
Yeah. "I'll defend to the death your right to say it" is sooooo 20th century.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 04:46 PM (mf67L)

354 A style for every occasion. Sexy. Cosplay. Mean naughty. Eyebrows for everyone.

*endorsed by Ron Paul

Posted by: Eyebrow Merkins - division of Lace Wigs at January 20, 2012 04:46 PM (ay6+/)

355 Ah, another person that is obsessed with Israel, gotcha.
Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:32 PM (HS3dy)
Oh look! A for real anti-Semite.
Don't you have a Klan meeting to attend or something?

Posted by: ErikW at January 20, 2012 04:46 PM (mqV0Z)

356
"Compared to Newt and Romney, he is. Compared to Obama he is William F*ing Buckley. Compared to Paul he is sane. "
Only in the mind of a "christian" progressive. The majority forcing it's values on the minority is not and never has been conservative.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:48 PM (HS3dy)

357 What most people don't realize is that Ron Paul has had the misfortune of being in some difficult places at some of the wrongest times. Summer of 1956, Paul was working as a dockhand in the Suez Canal. July of 1976, Paul had decided to take a tour of Uganda, flying into the airport at Entebbe on the 4th. March of 1978, Ron was taking a leisurely river cruise on the Litani River. June of 1982, Mr. Paul was studying at the University of Beruit.

Some say these events had an effect on the young Mr. Paul, and have had long-lasting consequences in the doctor's life. It's unclear as to how that is reflected in his political career, however.

Posted by: CNNN at January 20, 2012 04:48 PM (Gc/Qi)

358 Yeah. "I'll defend to the death your right to say it" is sooooo 20th century.

So, if I produced a video that claimed to have undeniable proof Herr Dr. Paul diddled kiddies in the shower, you'd be all for it being sold? After all, the Truthers have just about the same level of proof for their theories as I do for my theory.

Posted by: Slugs a'plenty at January 20, 2012 04:48 PM (2dU/2)

359 Usually burning victims died from smoke inhalation before the body even started to burn.To solve that problem you should use propane and propane accessories.
Posted by: Hank Hill at January 20, 2012 04:25 PM (Hx5uv)
[snort]

Posted by: Count de Monet at January 20, 2012 04:48 PM (4q5tP)

360 I know a coupletruthers.
Know what they all had in common?
< 25 years old.
What I think is really pernecious is this tooth fairy business the 3rd graders are going on about. It'sheretical and blasphemous.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 04:48 PM (mf67L)

361
"Oh look! A for real anti-Semite. Don't you have a Klan meeting to attend or something?"
What? LOL. Seriously, what in the world are you talking about?

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:49 PM (HS3dy)

362 So, if I produced a video that claimed to have undeniable proof Herr Dr. Paul diddled kiddies in the shower, you'd be all for it being sold? After all, the Truthers have just about the same level of proof for their theories as I do for my theory.

If George Bush wants to sue the truthers for defamation of character, I hope he wins.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 04:50 PM (mf67L)

363 Yeah, but Team Meteor doesn't get to use cool words like 'eldritch' or 'cyclopean'.

Hah, 'overpressure', 'Key Lime' and 'red patent leather'

Posted by: DaveA at January 20, 2012 04:51 PM (XFxB5)

364 I raped Ron Paul.

Posted by: Sarah Silverman at January 20, 2012 04:52 PM (Gc/Qi)

365 If a person questions the US's relationship with another country no one says much unless the country is Israel. Why is that? I'm asking a serious question here.

Posted by: dem obot at January 20, 2012 04:52 PM (oZfic)

366
"So, if I produced a video that claimed to have undeniable proof Herr Dr. Paul diddled kiddies in the shower, you'd be all for it being sold? After all, the Truthers have just about the same level of proof for their theories as I do for my theory."
What the heck are you talking about? You can't say anything relevant to the topic so you change the subject and rattle on about complete nonsense? You know, there is a word for that - TROLL.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:52 PM (HS3dy)

367 Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:40 PM (HS3dy)

Hello cocksucker.

Ron Paul (the man whose rectum you imagine and masturbate to every time you can manage to get an erection) has been connected to neo-Nazis for years, has made numerous statements that strongly suggest his antipathy to world Jewry, and has chosen Israel as the most egregious example of our foreign policy run amok. He carefully ignores the facts, and latches on to anti-Semitic conspiracy theories.

In other words, your savior is a loon and an asshole.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJconservative) at January 20, 2012 04:53 PM (nEUpB)

368 (ignoring the unfortunate detour above and returning to the subject of the post)
A brokered convention is quite unlikely but Paul would never win. He can't possibly get enough delegates even if the stories aboout secret delegates are accuate. Mitt's delegates are going to be regular GOP elected officials and party activists, hardly secret Ron Paul supporters.
"We're getting Romney out of a brokered convention, period."
If the unlkely occurs, its going to be someone else. If one of the current candidates can't put it away on the first ballot, the party will turn to some other non-candidate.
I'd bet on Jeb Bush personally.

Posted by: Bob from Ohio at January 20, 2012 04:54 PM (ROFkf)

369 What the heck are you talking about? You can't say anything relevant to
the topic so you change the subject and rattle on about complete
nonsense? You know, there is a word for that - TROLL.

Read his damn posting, you idiot. Basically said I was against free speech if I didn't defend Truthers' right to sell videos.


Posted by: Slugs a'plenty at January 20, 2012 04:54 PM (2dU/2)

370 You are the one brining up Israel in this thread, not the Paul supporters.

Actually, you're the one who brought up Israel as a response to someone's reference to Adolph Eichmann, even though that poster hadn't mentioned Israel and Eichmann was off hiding in South America in 1948. In fact, this was your second time in the thread muttering about Israel.

A head-scratching non sequitur, until you realize it comes from a disciple of DOCTOR Ron Paul! He'll save us all from the Zionist menace, don't you worry.

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at January 20, 2012 04:54 PM (Po0Xn)

371 Honestly, if trutherism is a deal killer for you, I don't even think that needs explanation. If it'shis associations with racists, ditto.
He's not going to win. I could give a shit who supports him or votes for him. Don't like him, don't support him.
I could just do without the part where he advocates fiscally conservative policies and people call him a racist kookfor it.
Go look at the debate thread, and while you're at it, read the transcript.
"We need to cut a trillion dollars from the budget"
"Paulbots are racists stupid kooks!!!"
Yeah ok.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 04:54 PM (mf67L)

372 Oh, so what you're saying is that Paul should compromise on his principles?

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:37 PM (HS3dy)

I wasn't actually trying to have a conversation with you.

Because that's impossible.

I was just pointing out that people who never accomplish anything aren't serving their principles very well.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at January 20, 2012 04:55 PM (bxiXv)

373 Paultards have such a persecution complex ...

Posted by: Slugs a'plenty at January 20, 2012 04:56 PM (2dU/2)

374 I keep asking: where does Ron Paul get all his money from?

He farms the delusional with his newsletters. It's a primitive version of the AOSHQ moron-blog with 1000s more 10x crazies and side order of racialism, GoldBug Fever and lookout for da Joooos. Minus the funny and no movie reviews either /s.This is looking more and more like a Soros-funded false-flag operation to keep the Republicans fragmented.

There's a lot of whackos out there who still manage to keep a job. There's a lot of people who like a little of what they here from him and leave early enough to miss the SS

Posted by: DaveA at January 20, 2012 04:56 PM (XFxB5)

375 If a person questions the US's relationship with another country no one says much unless the country is Israel. Why is that? I'm asking a serious question here.
Wrong. When Obama dissed the Brits by sending back the Churchill bust, lots of people questioned that decision. So, what do Isreal and the United Kingdom have in common: only our two most staunchest allies. Name some other country that has been as loyal and dedicated ally as these 2 countries?
Therein is the answer to your otherwise insane question. Thank you for plaing, Don Pardo, do we have any parting gifts for dem obot?

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at January 20, 2012 04:56 PM (OWjjx)

376 Hell, look at this thread.
Pat yourself on the back, paulbots always mention Israel.
Even if they mention Israel only because they're responding to the fact you called them genocidal antisemites.
Thus proving they are genocidal antisemites, because they mentioned Israel.
It's some Orwellian stuff.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 04:56 PM (mf67L)

377 Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:42 PM (HS3dy)

And the fact that Ronulans like you will game the system, i.e. calling yourself a supporter of another candidate when you're really a Paulbot, is kosher?

You're explanation of how the Electoral College is wrong in that it misses a step...which you do deliberately...in that the legislatures in each State determine how the electors are selected. In _every_ state it is by that candidate's Electors being elected by the popular vote. Which Paultards like you seek to circumvent by deception.

James Madison warned against people like you in Federalist No. 10 when he spoke of "mischiefs of faction". Which 24 states have enforced by enacting "Faithless Elector" laws.

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at January 20, 2012 04:57 PM (P2PWk)

378 Therein is the answer to your otherwise insane question. Thank you for plaing, Don Pardo, do we have any parting gifts for dem obot?
Sorry, Mallamutt, we were giving out clues, but Greg the useless troll "won" them all during the 2010 election cycle. Also, thanks to the Obama regime, Rice-A-Roni, the San Fransico treat, has become to cost prohibative to give away these days.

Posted by: Don Pardo at January 20, 2012 04:57 PM (OWjjx)

379 Only in the mind of a "christian" progressive. The majority forcing
it's values on the minority is not and never has been conservative.

Once again I may not like it, and quite honestly he lost my support last night on the SOPA question. But, I can't see voting for a man whose foreign policy is so reckless and naive as Paul.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at January 20, 2012 04:58 PM (0q2P7)

380 Ron Paul asked for my autograph after Game 2 of the 1966 World Series. I told him, "beat it kid, I'm tired."

Posted by: Sandy Koufax at January 20, 2012 04:58 PM (Gc/Qi)

381 This is looking more and more like a Soros-funded false-flag operation to keep the Republicans fragmented.
God I hate those conspiratorial paulbot nutters.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 04:59 PM (mf67L)

382
"Hello cocksucker. Ron Paul (the man whose rectum you imagine and masturbate to every time you can manage to get an erection) has been connected to neo-Nazis for years, has made numerous statements that strongly suggest his antipathy to world Jewry, and has chosen Israel as the most egregious example of our foreign policy run amok. He carefully ignores the facts, and latches on to anti-Semitic conspiracy theories. In other words, your savior is a loon and an asshole."
What is that saying about foul language? Something about a small mind trying to express itself forcefully.
Lies do not become true the more you tell them. You're a liar. Paul does disagree with our policies in the ME, and his disagreement is not in any way anti-Semitic. And given that Israel's security situation has continued to worsen over the years, at this point it's pretty well established that our foreign policy there is way past the point of running amok.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 04:59 PM (HS3dy)

383 But, I can't see voting for a man whose foreign policy is so reckless and naive as Paul.
Then don't.
It would be progress to say 'he has a point about the fed, though' and leave it at that.
You know, just not frogmarching him out of the auditorium and burning him in effigy.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 05:00 PM (mf67L)

384 And the fact that Ronulans like you will game the system, i.e. calling
yourself a supporter of another candidate when you're really a Paulbot,
is kosher?
Hey! We're not REALLY Paulbots. We're broad-minded, seeing both sides, totally cognizant that Jew-baiting is A-OK 'cause Doctor Paul has no chance of the nomination because he has no real support even though we're all going to vote for him in the end.

Posted by: Densetropy at January 20, 2012 05:00 PM (Po0Xn)

385 You know, just not frogmarching him out of the auditorium and burning him in effigy.

I've never suggested we do any such thing. Never said he shouldn't run, Never said he didn't have valid points on domestic policy. I have actually said he does have valid points on domestic policy.

I just get tired of the "If you don't vote for Paul you are a supporter of tyranny" line we get from the Ronulans.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at January 20, 2012 05:03 PM (0q2P7)

386
"Once again I may not like it, and quite honestly he lost my support last night on the SOPA question. But, I can't see voting for a man whose foreign policy is so reckless and naive as Paul. "
This is interesting, so you acknowledge that the other candidates are not conservatives?
Regarding Paul, how in the world is his foreign policy reckless or naive?
Reckless is rushing to war without due cause - see Iraq.
Naive is ignoring clear and present dangers that exist - see our borders. Paul wants a STRONGER national defense... meaning defending America, not defending one Arab dictator from another.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 05:03 PM (HS3dy)

387 Basically said I was against free speech if I didn't defend Truthers' right to sell videos.
No, what I responded to was the question - how could the management possibly allow videos to be sold that didn't reflect their views?
But don't let that stop you. I'm sure I've exposed some racist antisemitism here.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 05:03 PM (mf67L)

388 The only thing I see wrong is a flaming liberal, Obamney, being supported by the right.

Get your rich, elite bankers here!! Ace wants just one more. Maybe this time it will be different. Young uns. Shit.

Posted by: Deus Ex Machina at January 20, 2012 05:05 PM (GOG1H)

389 Jerry and I were auditioning actors for the role of who would play, me. Or me as Kramer, of course. So this guy named Ron Paul comes in, seems to have nailed the part, but the schmuck is joking around with us, and out of the blue drops the N word. So I turned to Jerry and say, really, we can't have this role go to a guy who would so casually drop the N word, like it was nothing.

Posted by: Larry David at January 20, 2012 05:06 PM (Gc/Qi)

390 I just get tired of the "If you don't vote for Paul you are a supporter of tyranny" line we get from the Ronulans.
I've never taken that line. I just get tired of having the only guy who even mentions most of the issues that I think are most important to this country get torn apart with bottomless vile, seeing his positions (and by proxy, a number of mine) asserted as nothing more than veiledracism - um, like, not forcing employers to enforce government regulation without due compensation, clearly very racist -and of course, making the neccessary budget cuts that have a snowballs chance in hell of saving our country is veryanti-american.
Not that it's coming from you. My apologies. Sometimes I don't pay close attention to detail when I'm tired.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 05:07 PM (mf67L)

391 Oh, you mean on the few times he votes for a bill he occaisionally managed to get some of his constituents money brought back to them? Yes, clearly a heinous crime.


The problem is hypocrisy and inconsistency. He's opposed to that kind of spending, but makes sure he gets his share. He votes against the bill, knowing it will pass. And worst of all, he puts earmarks in the bills that are blatantly unconstitutional, like federal funding for fisheries in his district. The exact same stuff he stands up and condemns.


In short, he doesn't walk the walk. He just talks.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at January 20, 2012 05:07 PM (r4wIV)

392 Regarding Paul, how in the world is his foreign policy reckless or naive? Reckless is rushing to war without due cause - see Iraq.Naive
is ignoring clear and present dangers that exist - see our borders.
Paul wants a STRONGER national defense... meaning defending America, not
defending one Arab dictator from another.
I'll say this just once. Paul is an isolationist. He has made that more than clear in his newsletters and speeches. The worlds most powerful nation cannot not be isolationist. It more than invites, it begs for global war.



BTW, we did have due cause for Iraq. We had a treaty, they were in violation of it.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at January 20, 2012 05:09 PM (0q2P7)

393 Regarding Paul, how in the world is his foreign policy reckless or naive?
His constant demands that troops be brought back from abroad and pretending that their is no threat to the United States until foreign troops enter American soil is reckless, naive and a relic of the 1800s.
His disdain for the only legitimate democracy in the Middle East is reckless, naive and dangerous. It shows that the United States, who has supported democratic movements throughout its long history, will turn a blind eye to the blantant actions of any despot as long as they refrain from invading American soil. Somehow, Dr. Paul believes that oil flows not from the Middle East, but from some magic place located securely in America.
The statements of his now former staffers that Paul has privately stated9-11 was an inside job shows a significant detachment from reality. Similar statements reported by his now ex-staffers that Paul believed the United States had no business fighting WWII shows both an incredible lack of understanding of history and a naive foreign policy ill-equipped for the modern global economy.
And his domestic policy isn't all that great either.
His obsession with taking a 14.2 trillion dollar economy down to a 200 billion economy (our current estimated amounts of gold reserves) is a disaster waiting to happen.
He would eliminate the "evil" fiat currency with an equally ineffective evil "fiat metal".
Paul is simply a man out of his time. His time being 1830.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at January 20, 2012 05:10 PM (OWjjx)

394 And again - not that he will win.
He was never gonna win. He's not running to win. He's "raising awareness".
You can bitch about the efficacy of his strategy - I won't bother to defend it. But it's not a point to hate on him over because he's ineffective.
But the hope is, as always, that someone will listen to him. That he'll say these things, most all of which are true,and by god, for once, somebody will acknowledge he has a point and pick it up and go somewhere with it.
And then he finishes talking about how entitlements are bankrupt, or how to actually overturn Roe V. Wade - ROE VS WADE! How is that not conservative? - it's greeted with "Burn the kooky racist!".
OK..... No wonder why our country is so fucked.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 05:10 PM (mf67L)

395
"You're explanation of how the Electoral College is wrong in that it misses a step...which you do deliberately...in that the legislatures in each State determine how the electors are selected. In _every_ state it is by that candidate's Electors being elected by the popular vote. Which Paultards like you seek to circumvent by deception."
Wrong. Go read the Constitution. Yes, some states, perhaps most states today, select delegates by popular vote. And this is actually a problem. Endemically states have been handing away their electoral college rights. Constitutionally states are not required to operate this way, and if they understood the point of the Constitution and the point of having a POTUS, Senators and a House, they wouldn't.
It's fun to watch you get so worked up about gossip though. Paul is not going to be the nominee. But if he could manage to upset the status quo even a little, it's worth it. Early states should not have the power that they do. Corrupt political PACs should not have the power that they do. To the full extent possible, Paul should use the system against itself.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 05:12 PM (HS3dy)

396 Paul is simply a man out of his time. His time being 1830.
Beggars can't be choosers.
That's why his flaws do not matter to me, at all, and are irrelevant.
If I had someone else, I'd support someone else. In fact, I do - I've been supporting Perry, and now Gingrich for POTUS. Last time it was Fred Thompson, then Rudy Guiliani (for about a day before he dropped) then Mitt Romney.
I want Gingrich to be the next President.
I guess what I mean is not "support" but "mention".
If someone else was saying the things only Paul says that matter to me, I'd be on them like white on rice, and never mention Paul again.
But that's all I got. No options to expose those issues. Beggars cannot be choosers. It's Paul or Jack Daniels.
Another one of these candidates could very easily snap up some of those issues, but they do not. I guess it didn't focus-group well.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 05:15 PM (mf67L)

397
"I'll say this just once. Paul is an isolationist."
Again wrong. Paul is a non-interventionist. For isolationism see North Korea. Paul wants to openly trade and have good international relations. For crying out loud he's even against tariffs of any kind.Cheap electronics is good for American consumers, he says let the market decide. Adding a tax to increase the cost ofgoods hurts us just as much as it does them. Mitt Romney wanting to tariff the hell out of China makes himWAY more of an isolationist than Paul.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 05:16 PM (HS3dy)

398 But if he could manage to upset the status quo even a little, it's worth it.

Were fooling ourselves gentlemen morons. Having or changing the discussion at this point is useless. Let's face it, if the Republican candidate doesn't win, OR, doesn't become something that none of the candidates are today, someone who can actually save this bitch, this is likely the last time we will get to have this little argument. I guess that's as good a reason as any to savor it.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at January 20, 2012 05:18 PM (0q2P7)

399 Yeah. "I'll defend to the death your right to say it" is sooooo 20th century.Not at all. The poster didn't try to take the tapes away or force the coffee shop closed, he/she just stopped going there. The right to free speech isn't wedded to the right to no consequences from that speech.

Posted by: rabidfox at January 20, 2012 05:20 PM (7sd7R)

400
"His constant demands that troops be brought back from abroad and pretending that their is no threat to the United States until foreign troops enter American soil is reckless, naive and a relic of the 1800s."
My goodness, it seriously drives me crazy how completely uninformed you people are.
Paul supported Reagan during Cold War. Reagan had nothing but good things to say about Paul, refering to him as "one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense."
Paul is not naive to outside threats. He doesn't want to dismantle the military, he wants to build it up even bigger. There is a huge difference between military adventurism and national defense. National defense is constitutional, adventurism isn't
You are either extremellyuninformed about Paul or you're not a conservative.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 05:24 PM (HS3dy)

401 Again wrong. Paul is a non-interventionist.

Fine let's be specific he would hang every ally and friend we had in the most strategically important region of the world out to dry, and hope that all the little tyrants like us better for it and decide not to cause problems anymore.

He would sit by as control over the region was aggregated under one authoritarian rule, then ultimately submit to the economic attacks that follow.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at January 20, 2012 05:26 PM (0q2P7)

402
"Were fooling ourselves gentlemen morons. Having or changing the discussion at this point is useless. Let's face it, if the Republican candidate doesn't win, OR, doesn't become something that none of the candidates are today, someone who can actually save this bitch, this is likely the last time we will get to have this little argument. I guess that's as good a reason as any to savor it. "
Now that sounds like a conspiracy theory to me...
My personal opinion is that a non-conservative RINO candidate is waaaaay worse than 4 more years of Obama. Congress can shut down the government. Obama only has as much poweras Boehner and company give him.
Would you rather have a wolf in sheep's clothing or a caged wolf?
A candidate like Romney, Gingrich, or Santorum will lead to a final nail in the constitutional coffin. The coin will flip, ship will keep sinking, and GOP will rightly get blamed for it, setting the stage for a turnover to the DNC, cycle continues.
You may not like Paul on every issue, but that cold reality is we're broke. Paul would veto any unbalanced budget, period. Forget all the other issues, for just that alone he's worth it.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 05:30 PM (HS3dy)

403 393 Mallimut: Thank you. Sums it up nicely

Posted by: rabidfox at January 20, 2012 05:31 PM (7sd7R)

404
"Fine let's be specific he would hang every ally and friend we had in the most strategically important region of the world out to dry..."
Nice backtrack.
Strategically important to whom and for what? Is South Korea paying us to defend them? Or how about the Qataris? Or Kuwaitis? Or [insert name of country here]?
In the 80's when Reagan came down hard on the Israelis for bombing an Iraqi nuclear facility who was one of the few voices in government defending Israel's right to defend themselves? Paul.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 05:34 PM (HS3dy)

405 And then he finishes talking about how entitlements are bankrupt, or how to actually overturn Roe V. Wade - ROE VS WADE! How is that not conservative? - it's greeted with "Burn the kooky racist!".


For the same reason someone who argues for states rights, then launches into how evil Lincoln was and rips their pants off to show the confederate flags on their ass is considered a racist kook. Its not the good stuff you said, its all the rest.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at January 20, 2012 05:37 PM (r4wIV)

406 You are either extremellyuninformed about Paul or you're not a conservative.
Or I listen to Ron Paul

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at January 20, 2012 05:37 PM (OWjjx)

407 You are either extremelly uninformed about Paul or you're not a conservative.

This is what bothers me about so many Ron Paul supporters: you guys don't actually seem to know what the man really stands for and wants. You know some good stuff and seem to just assume the rest.

Ron Paul specifically called for removing all troops from all foreign lands and completely withdrawing everything inside our borders, claiming unless its a direct attack on US soil, we're totally not interested in getting involved anywhere. He opposes our involvement in WW2 for crying out loud.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at January 20, 2012 05:39 PM (r4wIV)

408
"Ron Paul specifically called for removing all troops from all foreign lands and completely withdrawing everything inside our borders, claiming unless its a direct attack on US soil, we're totally not interested in getting involved anywhere. He opposes our involvement in WW2 for crying out loud."
Ok, please cite reference for all of this. The first part of your sentence, removing troops from foreign lands, I acknowledge and agree with Paul on this. Where in the Constitution does it authorize troops to be deployed outside the context of war? Cite article and section.
Is the problem Paul supports not understanding Paul or it is so-called conservatives not actually having read the Constitution?

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 05:49 PM (HS3dy)

409
"For the same reason someone who argues for states rights, then launches into how evil Lincoln was and rips their pants off to show the confederate flags on their ass is considered a racist kook. Its not the good stuff you said, its all the rest."
This is classic Paul attack. "What you're saying makes perfect sense but Paul is bad because of all this other stuff I heard he said but don't have any references for."
Yes, we should believe there is a deep web of conspiracy surrounding Paul that somehow only you are privy too.
Regarding Lincoln though, that really is a whole separate conversation. I would simply point you to Walter Williams for starters. Lincoln was not a good guy. To the victor goes the spoils and the history of Lincoln being this great liberator is just false. He didn't give a rats ass about slavery, he was basically an 1800's version of Obama who sought to control the entire economy at a federal level. And in that quest he shred the Constitution and got over 600,000 of his own people killed. It takes a pretty effed up moral compass to hold Lincoln in high regard.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 05:55 PM (HS3dy)

410 Entropy:
"We need to cut a trillion dollars from the budget"

Here's the thing: talk is cheap.

You guys think it's fantastic that a dottering paranoid fool says shit like "cut the government". Um, so does Obama from time to time, but actions speak louder than words, and Ron Paul has nothing to recommend him. He is neither honest nor sane.

Posted by: sandy burger at January 20, 2012 06:00 PM (ErTq7)

411 What's so arrogant about a contempt for democracy? From my reading, a contempt for democracy is about the most healthy impulse a society can have.

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at January 20, 2012 06:01 PM (QQAJP)

412 At any rate a "democracy" of Republicans is a democracy in the way that the Athenian system was a "democracy" of male adult citizens of one city.

Nitpicking aside, a brokered convention will probably not elect Paul. When the non-Paul candidates figure it out, they'll rally behind a non-Paul and non-Romney. One hopes they will choose someone better than both.

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at January 20, 2012 06:04 PM (QQAJP)

413 DaveA:
He farms the delusional with his newsletters.

That's exactly right.

His supporters' defense seems to be: Paul doesn't actually believe these things, he's merely exploiting the mentally ill.

He's just another Dennis Kucinich.

Posted by: sandy burger at January 20, 2012 06:09 PM (ErTq7)

414 "It takes a pretty effed up moral compass to hold Lincoln in high regard."

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 05:55 PM (HS3dy)

I just tuned in so I only had a chance to read the last few comments. I have to say, Andrew, that you're just about the most fucked-up piece of shit I've read in a conservative forum in a long time. I take it you're a Ron Paul supporter? Of course you are. btw, the GOP is the Party of Lincoln. Don't like it? Go then, and take you're fucking Prison Planet and Stormfront pals with you.

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 06:11 PM (YCeSE)

415 Entropy:
He's not running to win. He's "raising awareness".

Of the scary ink on the new one dollar bills?

Because if you mean the fact that we're broke and well on our way down the Road to Serfdom, uh, most of us already know that. We really do know. The issue the grown-ups are discussing is what, realistically, we can do about it, and Ron Paul's promises and plans on that front are no more credible than Nancy Pelosi's.

Posted by: sandy burger at January 20, 2012 06:12 PM (ErTq7)

416 Regarding Lincoln though, that really is a whole separate conversation. I would simply point you to Walter Williams for starters. Lincoln was not a good guy. To the victor goes the spoils and the history of Lincoln being this great liberator is just false. He didn't give a rats ass about slavery, he was basically an 1800's version of Obama who sought to control the entire economy at a federal level. And in that quest he shred the Constitution and got over 600,000 of his own people killed. It takes a pretty effed up moral compass to hold Lincoln in high regard.
Let's grant you the point that Lincoln didn't care about slavery - it wasn't Lincoln who tried to secede from the union and fired on federal troops at Ft. Sumter. It was South Carolina. And Lincoln didn't kick Virginia, Texas, Alabama et. al. out of the Union they left (or attempted to leave) on their own. Lincoln didn't even originate the idea that states weren't eligible to withdraw from the union. That was Jackson during the Nullification crisis. The people responsible for the shedding of the blood of 600,000 Americans reside squarely south of the Mason Dixon line.

Posted by: CBHJ at January 20, 2012 06:17 PM (9VSWS)

417 issue the grown-ups are discussing is what, realistically, we can do about it
What a load of bullshit.
Which comment was that? The comment where the grown-ups were discussing what can be done to fix things, rather than spewing ad-hominens at Paul?

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 06:23 PM (Ci0JG)

418 Paul supported Reagan during Cold War. Reagan had nothing but good things to say about Paul, refering to him as "one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense."

You mean support like this -
I want to totally disassociate myself from the policies that have given us unprecedented deficits, massive monetary inflation, indiscriminate military spending, an irrational and unconstitutional foreign policy, zooming foreign aid, the exaltation of international banking, and the attack on our personal liberties and privacy.
After years of trying to work through the Republican Party both in and out of government, I have reluctantly concluded that my efforts must be carried on outside the Republican Party. Republicans know that the Democratic agenda is dangerous to our political and economic health. Yet, in the past six years Republicans have expanded its worst aspects and called them our own. The Republican Party has not reduced the size of government. It has become big government's best friend.
If Ronald Reagan couldn't or wouldn't balance the budget, which Republican leader on the horizon can we possibly expect to do so? There is no credibility left for the Republican Party as a force to reduce the size of government. That is the message of the Reagan years.
I conclude that one must look to other avenues if a successful effort is ever to be achieved in reversing America's direction.
I therefore resign my membership in the Republican Party and enclose my membership card.

That was Ron Paul's resignation letter to the RNC in the late 80's. Reagan endorsed him 5 years ealier in 1982, presumably before he (Paul) became a batshit crazy loon.

Posted by: CBHJ at January 20, 2012 06:25 PM (9VSWS)

419 take it you're a Ron Paul supporter? Of course you are. btw, the GOP is the Party of Lincoln. Don't like it? Go then, and take you're fucking Prison Planet and Stormfront pals with you.
See, there we go again. Not endorsing suspension of habeus corpus = racist naziism. It's Anti-Fascist Action. Totally Orwellian.
The libertarians are labeled racists by 'conservatives' for supporting individual liberty and actual fiscally conservative policies, instead of paying them lip service and selling them out.
You want any trace of libertarians gone from your party, you'll get it.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 06:27 PM (Ci0JG)

420 I want to totally disassociate myself from the policies that have given us unprecedented deficits, massive monetary inflation, indiscriminate military spending, an irrational and unconstitutional foreign policy, zooming foreign aid, the exaltation of international banking, and the attack on our personal liberties and privacy. That racist bastard!

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 06:28 PM (Ci0JG)

421 What's so arrogant about a contempt for democracy? From my reading, a contempt for democracy is about the most healthy impulse a society can have.
Well that's totally racist. Thefounding fathers had slaves you know.
That's almost insane it's so racist.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 06:30 PM (Ci0JG)

422 Which comment was that? The comment where the grown-ups were discussing what can be done to fix things, rather than spewing ad-hominens at Paul?

I'm talking about the last four years (at least).

While teenagers, idiots, and lunatics have been flocking to Ron Paul, grown-ups have been discussing what to do about the broken GOP and broken government. No, we don't have an answer, and things look pretty grim right now. But you don't have an answer, either; Ron Paul is a childish fantasy that gets in the way of actually discussing solutions to our serious problems.

Posted by: sandy burger at January 20, 2012 06:30 PM (L07Yb)

423 Here's the thing: talk is cheap.
ORLY?
See how much it costs you to get McConnel to even talk about 1 trillion in cuts.
McConnell knows that kind of thing is racist, and will not be tolerated in todays enlightened society.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 06:32 PM (Ci0JG)

424
Whenever I'm trying to point out exactly what's wrong with todays Republican party I simply point my conservative family and friends to this site. Its filthy mouthedfollowers and porn loving moderators are the perfect example of what's wrong with the Republican party. Tony Blankley is spinning in his grave - he'd call you all a bunch of Braindead Red Repubs today. See ya at the convention Jingos!
Signed - a true conservative.

Posted by: Zeek at January 20, 2012 06:33 PM (5Cwv4)

425 But you don't have an answer, either; Ron Paul is a childish fantasy that gets in the way of actually discussing solutions to our serious problems.
A) I did not start this post. I'm not a coblogger. I've never started a Ron Paul discussion. Who's getting distracted, hmmmmm?
B) I don't hate you for not having an answer - which you don't, any more than Paul does.
Oh but you're trying, busy busy, I'm sure you'll get right on it.
Yeah right.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 06:34 PM (Ci0JG)

426 hang every ally and friend we had in the most strategically important region of the world
That would be the US Congress.
out to dry..."
Yup.
Cuz 1960's racism, yo.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 06:38 PM (Ci0JG)

427 Its filthy mouthedfollowers and porn loving moderators are the perfect example of what's wrong with the Republican party. Tony Blankley is spinning in his grave - he'd call you all a bunch of Braindead Red Repubs today. See ya at the convention Jingos!
How are you going to get there? Amish people aren't allowed to drive and it's gonna be too far by horse.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 06:40 PM (Ci0JG)

428 If romney gets nominated, i'm going to vote for Obama. How about that BITCHES?

Santorum, Paul, I will vote for.

Newt, I'll consider.

Romney? FUCK you, bring this fucker down if romney is the answer.

Stupid fucking republicans.

Posted by: hurr durr at January 20, 2012 06:41 PM (1j0Ba)

429 "I just tuned in so I only had a chance to read the last few comments. I have to say, Andrew, that you're just about the most fucked-up piece of shit I've read in a conservative forum in a long time. I take it you're a Ron Paul supporter? Of course you are. btw, the GOP is the Party of Lincoln. Don't like it? Go then, and take you're fucking Prison Planet and Stormfront pals with you."
Do you know who Walter E. Williams is? He frequently guest hosts for Rush Limbaugh. Here's a link to a book forward he wrote (on my name, even with tiny URL I seem unable to paste it here). So you're calling Williams and Limbaugh effed up too, just FYI.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 06:41 PM (HS3dy)

430 My personal opinion is that a non-conservative RINO candidate is waaaaay worse than 4 more years of Obama. Congress can shut down the government. Obama only has as much poweras Boehner and company give him.
The fact of the matter is Boehner and company will give him absolute power.
No two ways about it.
Yet we're to believe they will drag a RINO POTUS kicking and screaming toward entitlement reform? LOFL. Nope.
We're probably screwed regardless.
I got a free bet, so I'll take one last spin with Gingrich, the odds are long but the payout is high.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 06:44 PM (Ci0JG)

431 Not endorsing suspension of habeus corpus = racist naziism.
No rascist naziism = rascist naziism. The suspension of Habeus Corpus may have been unconstitutional, but the US was in the middle of a war on it's soil and Lincoln may have made a mistake. It happens. But let's be honest that isn't what the "libertarian" (scare quotes because most actual libertarians don't actually hate Lincoln, at least not the ones I know) hatred for Lincoln is about. If you equate allowing slavery to continue under the guise of states rights then you have a very skewed sense of liberty and on the scale of evils Lincoln's suspension of Habeus Corpus temporaily during a war is far less evil than owning another person.
The libertarians are labeled racists by 'conservatives' for supporting individual liberty and actual fiscally conservative policies, instead of paying them lip service and selling them out.
No one is calling libertarians racists, we're calling you stupid for supporting a racist who while talking about fiscal cosnervatism has lined up at the governement trough for years.

Posted by: CBHJ at January 20, 2012 06:44 PM (9VSWS)

432 He frequently guest hosts for Rush Limbaugh.
Frankly, Rush is very level headed, pretty libertine. It's about time we tossed his ass out for being racist too.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 06:46 PM (Ci0JG)

433 I don't hate you for not having an answer - which you don't, any more than Paul does.

The only people I see even trying at this point are maybe Paul Ryan and Chris Christie.

When small-government people flock to the lunatic Ron Paul, they have removed themselves from being part of the solution.

Posted by: sandy burger at January 20, 2012 06:46 PM (0U+Pz)

434 Let Donovan McNabb be our cry as we rally to oust the racists and save the Union!

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 06:47 PM (Ci0JG)

435 Entropy - you've got heart, but self-awareness around here went out the window a long time ago. It's about (mostly blind) hate! hate! hate! now.

"Genocidal!" "Racist!" "Anti-semite!" "Unpatriotic!" "Crazy!111!11!!!"

This place has become worse than Daily Kos. And the fish is rotting from the bi-polar head.

The fact that months of political hackery scared away many people who didn't adore Perry's soft-headedness didn't help the ambiance. (I apologize cause I know you liked the guy, and I'd still vote him, but he's many things Palin's detractors claim she was. Ironic, again, considering our bi-polar host's (also exaggerated) feelings towards her.)

Fuck Romney and Gingrich, we may be better off with another four years in the wilderness until a decent candidate can win.

Posted by: MlR at January 20, 2012 06:50 PM (vj9lA)

436 Fuck Romney and Gingrich, we may be better off with another four years in the wilderness until a decent candidate can win.

I'm leaning that way myself.

Posted by: sandy burger at January 20, 2012 06:51 PM (L07Yb)

437 "That was Ron Paul's resignation letter to the RNC in the late 80's"
Yes, afternearly a decade of the most massive deficits and entitlement spending the country had ever seen, which Reagan himself said was the greatest failing of his presidency.
Since that time we've had Bush I and Bush II from the GOP in the white house.
In 4 years of Bush I national debt rose by nearly same amount that it did under 8 years of Reagan. Under Bush II national debt rose by 6.7 Trillion. More than every other president combined up to that point.
Obama is currently at 4.3 Trillion.
While his letter may have been a bit rash, content-wise, he seems to have been pretty much spot-on about everything he said, LOL

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 06:52 PM (HS3dy)

438 His obsession with taking a 14.2 trillion dollar economy down to a 200 billion economy (our current estimated amounts of gold reserves) is a disaster waiting to happen.
For the love of god, follow Mitt Romney's advise. Read Adam Smith.
Get back to us when you figgure the whole 'money' thing out.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 06:55 PM (Ci0JG)

439 I find it really disturbing that 3% of the population would align themselves with those lunatics, Washington, Smith, Adams, Henry, and the rest. Fucking psychos trying to get us killed? We don't like the crown either, but lets just be nicey nice and hope this blows over.

screw you you pussy so called conservatives.

Posted by: hurr durr at January 20, 2012 06:55 PM (1j0Ba)

440 While his letter may have been a bit rash, content-wise, he seems to have been pretty much spot-on about everything he said, LOL
That's the crux of it! Ain't no reasoning when people are offering that as a slam of him. I guess they're 'my party, right or wrong'.
Because 3rd parties are racist, of course.
Fuck - that letter is all the vindication Paul could ever need.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 06:57 PM (Ci0JG)

441 "While teenagers, idiots, and lunatics have been flocking to Ron Paul, grown-ups have been discussing what to do about the broken GOP and broken government. No, we don't have an answer, and things look pretty grim right now. But you don't have an answer, either; Ron Paul is a childish fantasy that gets in the way of actually discussing solutions to our serious problems."
Haha, are you kidding? Yes, gosh, actually cutting the budget, that is childish.
Paul is the only one seriously talking about a solution. The rest are voting for NDAA and touting Paul Ryan as our economic savior, you know, the guy who wants to balance the budget sometime in the next 80 years, lol.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 06:58 PM (HS3dy)

442 Ace whines like a little girl.

Posted by: tx conservative at January 20, 2012 07:02 PM (DKfLx)

443 (I apologize cause I know you liked the guy, and I'd still vote him, but he's many things Palin's detractors claim she was. Ironic, again, considering our bi-polar host's (also exaggerated) feelings towards her.)
He may well be, I don't care, I think he would have made a dent in it.
Obviously I don't mind kookiness or eccentricity. (Or "stupidity").We need more of it.
Even now, he's campaigning for Gingrich by heading up a "10th Ammendment" project to help shape the RNC platform. He wasn't bullshittin. It's too bad.
If there's any one issue (as opposed to a multi-pronged approach) that might dent the federal leviathan, it's the ressurection of the 10th ammendment.
As for AOS hate on Sarah Palin, I dunno, these guys are all news junkies and they act like news reporters. If a story doesn't pan out, they get pissed off at Cain for "wasting their time". WTF? Did Cain personally beg you to come? You don't have to cover him...
If someone runs for POTUS and they don't think the effort was 'serious' enough, they take it as a personal affront to them. It's like they think they're entitled to action by other people and when it doesn't pan out, they blaim the puppets for ruining their stage play.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 07:06 PM (Ci0JG)

444 "Do you know who Walter E. Williams is? He frequently guest hosts for Rush Limbaugh. Here's a link to a book forward he wrote (on my name, even with tiny URL I seem unable to paste it here). So you're calling Williams and Limbaugh effed up too, just FYI."

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 06:41 PM (HS3dy)

No, I never listen to Rush Limbaugh, that overrated, draft-dodging piece of shit. He's an entertainer, not a serious thinker. So yes, if Rush and his buddy also think Lincoln is a dictator who crushed the flower of the South under his iron heel, then fuck them, too.

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 07:10 PM (YCeSE)

445 Want to talk about "grown up" stuff, real ways to fix problems?
You'd think you'd be counting the repeal votes, and taking any 'yay' you could get no?
No. We don't want racists 'yay' votes, it would tarnish our position. We want Paul out of congress (cuz he would certainly vote for Obamacare).
These people are trying, and they are us.Sarah? Cain? Bachmann? Death, death, death to the inadequate. Don't help them just chuck them under the bus and fap to Romney's dreamy smile and slick suit.
I said "beggars can't be choosers" about Paul. These guys think they can choose everything even when they ain't getting nothing.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 07:10 PM (Ci0JG)

446 "You want any trace of libertarians gone from your party, you'll get it."

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 06:27 PM (Ci0JG)

If by 'libertarian' you mean racist, antisemitic, conspiratorial America Firster retreads, then yes, sure, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 07:13 PM (YCeSE)

447 No, I never listen to Rush Limbaugh, that overrated, draft-dodging piece of shit. He's an entertainer, not a serious thinker. So yes, if Rush and his buddy also think Lincoln is a dictator who crushed the flower of the South under his iron heel, then fuck them, too.
Told you, Andrew.
Hell, I don't remember if it was this thread, but whatever Mittbot keeps socking as 'Political Malcontent' (who I like think may have been modelled on me) has been indulging in a cathartic - not to mention random and unprovoked -anti-Limbaugh warpath for weeks.
We live in interesting times.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 07:15 PM (Ci0JG)

448 Agreement on the 10th (and 9th) Amendments. It's the primary (indeed, close to the only) reason I liked him.

I know I'm not saying anything you don't already know, but I imagine a lot of it comes from the tribal way most people approach politics.

Once you're not useful to me, either politically or emotionally, you're no longer useful at all. Kick you around to feel better about myself? Sure! That's what you get for losing!

Irony being, of course, that many of the people most spiteful are often those who were originally (and irrationally) so smitten, but have now moved on to the latest bandwagon, hate, or love object. Perry's also suffered from this.

Posted by: MlR at January 20, 2012 07:16 PM (vj9lA)

449 Yes, gosh, actually cutting the budget, that is childish.

Posing and ranting while shoveling money to donors is not actually cutting anything.

Here's an example of a tiny bit of actual progress in the real world: Governor Scott Walker taking on the government unions. See, that's something that took place in the real world. All Paul does is posture for his fans.

Posted by: sandy burger at January 20, 2012 07:16 PM (ErTq7)

450 Entropy:
If there's any one issue (as opposed to a multi-pronged approach) that might dent the federal leviathan, it's the ressurection of the 10th ammendment.
Amen, brother. Very very true.

Posted by: sandy burger at January 20, 2012 07:18 PM (ErTq7)

451 Rubio's the biggest puffed-up love object going now. Guy's done nothing. A less impressive and accomplished version of Cain.

Posted by: MlR at January 20, 2012 07:19 PM (vj9lA)

452 "No, I never listen to Rush Limbaugh, that overrated, draft-dodging piece of shit. He's an entertainer, not a serious thinker. So yes, if Rush and his buddy also think Lincoln is a dictator who crushed the flower of the South under his iron heel, then fuck them, too."
I don't listen much myself either to be honest. You may be right about Rush being more of an entertainer, but Walter Williams is definitely a thinker, a very renowned economist and constitutional scholar. I'd encourage you to go read the book forward that was linked. If you disagree with it, feel free to come back with something specific.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 07:20 PM (HS3dy)

453 Paul is the only one seriously talking about a solution. The rest are voting for NDAA and touting Paul Ryan as our economic savior, you know, the guy who wants to balance the budget sometime in the next 80 years, lol.
This is, really, what I suspect it is you know. If he WAS a democrat, he'd be a good one, a Lieberman sellout but an economic version.
They hate hate hate him, want him gone, can't abide him, be he breaks the charade.
I don't think it's full denial, but you gotta keep morale, fight fight fight. STFU, no time to acklowedge that kind of shit. Won't even admit to a point. Need to defeat Obama.
But Ryan, who is probably one of the best Republicans and a serious fiscal conservative, isn't even proposing serious or real solutions. He's fighting for things that just hint in that general direction, because of 'political realities'.
The Ryan budget is only a start, or we're screwed. None of our candidates - and few who bash Paul - dare ever fucking admit it though. We're arguing about which one will sell us out on Cut, Cap, and Balance. That's the bare minimum needed to kick the can down the road.
Does not suggest to me that any of them will ball up enough to fix it. Sounds like maybe I should buy more ammo and bottled water.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 07:28 PM (Ci0JG)

454 Andrew: are you really a Ronulan? Have you put any thought at all into Lunar Po's "stuff"?
Let's take a few notable examples, and a couple of recent ones.
Start with the "buy a gallon of gas for one thin dime". Who fell for this? Ronulus Maximus admits that he really means "one thin silver dime", a dime not minted in the last 45 years. Virtually no one has them. Those that do ... well, the price of silver makes them worth about $3.50. Try to get a gallon of gas for one silver dime ... the gas station will take them at face value (10 cents), as they are real money (as per Ron). Melt one down, and the silver is worth $3.50 ... but gas stations won't take silver, only money.
Ron wasn't really telling the truth. Everyone knows it. You know it.
Nor Laup claims that returning all US military from overseas posts is a good thing, a money saving thing, and will cause people to like us. We could spend the money at home, on .... social programs? ... welfare?
For the Commander of the Ronulan Legions to make such a strategic pontification is truly cerebrial ... Cerebrial Paul ... his most ardent supporters are thus awarded the condition of Cerebrial Paul-sy ...
Ron's position is stupid. It's reasonably clear that the Pax Americana of the past 60+ years is due to 1) US military power 2) everywhere, and significantly "over there". US troops, even as a trip wire, prevented the Soviets from driving to the Rhine and possibly further west, and have kept Kim the PoofyHaired and Well Fed yet Short from rolling into South Korea. Count the dead bodies. The offer of US bombers to India stopped China from moving into parts of India in the early 60's.
Compare the number to that of real wars, like China-Vietnam (late 70's), India-Pakistan (several), Kampuchea (this one is on George McGovern Co-conspirators), Iran-Iraq. The US helped broker peace deals between India and Pakistan. Yes, we sold arms to Pakistan, and it seems to be one of the ways they save face from their defeats ... next time. It also seems to keep the body count low.
Eventually, we will likely have to fight a real war, like WW2. Ron's way will cause this to happen very much sooner and with very many more American deaths, rather than later, with much better odds in our favor, and with a very slight chance of never ...
unPolaR fails to understand these things. Of course we could return to an isolationist America. People would no longer hate us. But we've seen this. Their hatred is envy, or cultural hatred of "others" ... Ron is all bullshit.
"The Paulistinian Pontification", Lunar Po's newsletter. It's written at the intellectual level of 1950's propaganda; if you are at least halfway through 10th grade, you see it as badly-written comic book drivel, fooling everyone not yet in 8th grade ... and then there are his links to Uniformed Goose-Stepping Model Builders and Lead Miniature Painters (i.e., neo-Nazis) and various Joooooo-Haters ...
Good ol' Ron says we brought 9/11 on ourselves. This too is bullshit, and when called on it, Ron Teh Gr8 mumbles as he is publicly spanked and laughed-at. Muslims hate us because it's one of their religious tenets: they are the best of peoples, and God rewards them. Yet our success and their failure, two completely unrelated situations, makes them out to be liars and fools. The only thing they can do is try to bring us down.
Cutting spending. Ronulus has authored perhaps 3 bills in his entire Congressional career. Has anyone with even 1/4 his time in office done less? Ever? He may have co-sponsored hundreds of bills, but that shows he's only a "meeeeee toooooo" child, not a capable leader of men ... we don't need another "Present"-ident. Factor in the pork angle. Without pork, Ron would have been flushed decades ago.
Ron is a manipulative, broken old man with a sub-mediocre record. At best, he will let you down; at worst, he will use then mark you.

Posted by: Arbalest at January 20, 2012 07:29 PM (A+Ncc)

455 Nazi magazine Spotlight and Ron Paul

You'll notice that the Nazis are concerned (read: obsessed) with the same things any other Paultard is. I wonder why that is, hmmm...

I can't wait for the MFM to "spotlight" (pun intended) the various characters that make up the Paultards, and paint all Republicans with that same brush when he and his cult troll the Republican convention. It's as if everyone forgot about Jared Loughner (not even a Republican!) and every other psycho they've called a "teabagger" and hung around the GOP's neck.

Congratulations, Paultards, you're doing more to ensure a permanent Democrat party majority than any of them could have prayed for. DIAF.

Posted by: Anyone But Obozo or R*n P*ul at January 20, 2012 07:36 PM (kBxk7)

456 And any of you fools who think he will dismantle Leviathan as if he's some magic man need to lay off the kool-aid - that's laughable, pure fantasy. Try the special applesauce instead.

Posted by: Anyone But Obozo or R*n P*ul at January 20, 2012 07:48 PM (kBxk7)

457 "I can't wait for the MFM to "spotlight" (pun intended) the various characters that make up the Paultards, and paint all Republicans with that same brush when he and his cult troll the Republican convention."

Haha.. they will do the same thing with any candidate. and you bought into it. you can continue to cling to the republican party all you want. they lose. they have been and will continue to. Who won in the last election? The Tea party. who ignored the cries of RACIST from the media. But go ahead and vote for McCain junior.

The worst racist, david duke,westboro, mofo who could ever run will be treated the same as Romney will. Want to make a bet? If romney wins the nomination, he will be painted as the same racist, extremist, stupid, baby killer Jew hater that you think Paul is. And I hope you love it. Idiot.

Posted by: hurr durr at January 20, 2012 07:53 PM (1j0Ba)

458 441 Paul is the only one seriously talking about a solution. The rest
are voting for NDAA and touting Paul Ryan as our economic savior, you
know, the guy who wants to balance the budget sometime in the next 80
years, lol.





(1) Ron Paul thinks you can balance the budget without seriously
reforming entitlements, which is absurd given that the majority of our
spending is mandatory spending. You
could shutter every government department and still be in the red, and
he does not seem to understand that.


(2) RE NDAA, here is a good piece
and there are two more at the bottom of the first paragraph. Now reread
the counterterrorism section of NDAA, specifically Sec. 1021-1022.


(3) CBO did not say 80yrs; it did not even say 30yrs. Furthermore, they
are providing an estimate without taking certain things into
consideration, so their guesses usually assume something will occur
later than it will. Anyone who says they can balance the budget within
5-10yrs without reforming entitlements and cutting mandatory spending is
lying.

Posted by: Miss80s at January 20, 2012 07:53 PM (d6QMz)

459 seems like the republican convention might look like the 1979 Baath party convention, with Saddamite purges, confessions of hoarding gold and executions...

http://tinyurl.com/89oj4wk

/ paranoid psychotics for Paul

Posted by: Dr. Paul is Dr Zeaus? at January 20, 2012 07:54 PM (0A7p4)

460 You know, I try not to be a cassandra. Because I'm usually not - Y2k - knew it was bullshit; Global Warming - bullshit; avian flu - bullshit; OMFG end of capitalism unless we prop it up with massive socialism - bullshit.
99.99% all of all of everyones fears turn out to be completely unsubstantiated bullshit, I've learned that in my life. People are problem solvers and they will find problems. Life goes on anyway.
But I do honestly think this is our last chance to avoid an outright police state through the ballot box.
Regardless of who wins, if shit does not fundementally shift and do so quickly, we can write off the 'work in the system' option (and probably all our other options too). It just keeps progressing, and accelerating, and progressing, and accelerating. Throwing people in prison because they can't prove their innocent, for buying flowers. Pointing machine guns at them for making guitars. Breaking into their homes and shooting their dogs because they have the wrong address. The constant devolution of all authority about everything to appointed officials who run executive agencies without any oversight.
We are so fucked.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 07:54 PM (Ci0JG)

461 we may be better off with another four years in the wilderness until a decent candidate can win.


Four more years of Obama and we won't have an America to save.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at January 20, 2012 07:56 PM (r4wIV)

462 So I'm looking at this link to Spotlight, a magazine I've literally never heard of. Couple points.
1) I'm not seeing any pro-nazi, neo-nazi, or anything-nazi links to it. I see no indication of this from the paper itself, and in running searching am not seeing anything along these lines either.
2) Regardless of #1, Paul having done an interview with them is not the same as expressing support for them, you understand that right? I see nothing nazish about the interview content at all. You think Paul was the only one to do an interview with them, I guarantee you he wasn't.
Show me an article that cites Paul expressing pro-Nazi views... I won't hold my breath.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 07:59 PM (HS3dy)

463 Andrew: I'm glad you never heard of it, it's a Nazi publication.

"hurr durr" - go back to your Occutard shit on 4chan, scumbag. You picked the wrong site to paullute with your trash.

Posted by: Anyone But Obozo or R*n P*ul at January 20, 2012 08:01 PM (kBxk7)

464 The worst racist, david duke,westboro, mofo who could ever run will be treated the same as Romney will. Want to make a bet? If romney wins the nomination, he will be painted as the same racist, extremist, stupid, baby killer Jew hater that you think Paul is. And I hope you love it. Idiot.
Posted by: hurr durr at January 20, 2012 07:53 PM (1j0Ba)

Well, there's a distinction here: Romney isn't a racist--and neither is Gingrich, for that matter--and Ron Paul is. You know, Dr. Ron Paul, the scrawny little whiny demagogue in the bad suit? He has pandered to the Hitler-loving, swastika-wearing, Jew-hating Stormfront, Spotlight, American Renaissance crowd for decades.

That's a big distinction. Idiot.

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 08:01 PM (YCeSE)

465 Ron Paul associates frequently with Willis Carto (publisher of Spotlight) who is described briefly here at Wikipedia but you can find more with a simple Google search:

http://tinyurl.com/pc8yt

This, btw, is just the tip of the iceberg. There are TONS of other things about his alliance with neonazis. Everyone knows about his David Duke shit, but there's way more than that.

Posted by: Anyone But Obozo or R*n P*ul at January 20, 2012 08:04 PM (kBxk7)

466

Four more years of Obama and we won't have an America to save.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at January 20, 2012 07:56 PM (r4wIV)
Rinse and repeat for every election's #1 Team Republican talking point. No offense to you Mr. Taylor, because I appreciate your comments, but as earnest as many people are in believing it, it comes out every four years like clockwork.
Obama's awful and should be impeached today and thrown in jail. Wilson was worse. FDR was worse. Truman tried (but failed) to be worse (contrary to the revisionist B.S.). Johnson was worse. Carter was (in some ways) worse. Bush II (for what he did to the Republican Party, the only realistic opposition in this country) was possibly also worse.And I can almost guarantee you there will be worse after Obama.

Posted by: MlR at January 20, 2012 08:09 PM (vj9lA)

467 Dear Anyone But Obozo or R*n P*ul,

I am humbled by your amazingly intelligent argument. I dont give a shit about the occutards.

What was your argument again?

I'm waiting for you to show up at my door and prove "I picked the wrong site" Sounds scary.

Shaking in my boots.

Look at that, now I'm crying.

Posted by: hurr durr at January 20, 2012 08:10 PM (1j0Ba)

468 When you claim that youwere a great supporter of Ronald Reagan, as Paul is doing in his TV ads,yet bolted the Republican party because Reagan was in charge that makes you a lying piece of shit.
If he was honest and said I left the GOP because I felt Ronald Reagan was as bad as Jimmy Carter or something similar he would aleast get a point for being honest but Paul wants it both ways. So yeah his letter is ammo against him it shows what a liar and what a dsiloyal turd he is.

Posted by: CBHJ at January 20, 2012 08:11 PM (9VSWS)

469 "So I'm looking at this link to Spotlight, a magazine I've literally never heard of."

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 07:59 PM (HS3dy)

You're being disingenuous. If you haven't heard of Spotlight then you've certainly heard of its publisher, Willis Carto, the man who founded the Holocaust denial 'movement', such as it is. Carto also happens to be a friend of Lew Rockwell, the man acknowledged to be the ghostwriter of most of Paul's newsletters.

In fact, there's one degree of separation between Ron Paul, Pat Buchanan, Alex Jones, Lew Rockwell, Willis Carto, David Duke, and Don Black. Paul is directly associated with Buchanan, Jones, and Rockwell, once complimented and encouraged David Duke (who remains a Ron Paul supporter to this day), and knowingly receives donations from Stormfront website founder and owner, Don Black--who, by the way, is also a convicted felon for his role in an attempted white supremacist coup of the Caribbean island country of Dominica, otherwise known as 'The Bayou of Pigs'.

You're a Ron Paul true believer and you don't know these things? Really?

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 08:13 PM (YCeSE)

470 "Well, there's a distinction here: Romney isn't a racist--and neither is Gingrich, for that matter--and Ron Paul is. You know, Dr. Ron Paul, the scrawny little whiny demagogue in the bad suit? He has pandered to the Hitler-loving, swastika-wearing, Jew-hating Stormfront, Spotlight, American Renaissance crowd for decades. "

How has he pandered to them? And "if you don't know, i'm not going to tell you" isn't an answer.

Posted by: hurr durr at January 20, 2012 08:16 PM (1j0Ba)

471 "How has he pandered to them? And "if you don't know, i'm not going to tell you" isn't an answer.'

Posted by: hurr durr at January 20, 2012 08:16 PM (1j0Ba)

See my post above addressing Ron Paul's connections to Don Black, Lew Rockwell, Willis Carto, David Duke, Jared Taylor, et al. Go lurk on Stormfront, search for Ron Paul. They love Dr. Ron Paul on Stormfront.

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 08:19 PM (YCeSE)

472 I'm just an ol' chuck of coal, but I'll be a diamond before Ron Paul gets the Republican nomination, even if it's not decided before the convention.

Posted by: Bill Johnson at January 20, 2012 08:20 PM (9X1+H)

473 I take it back, i have been humbled.. You convinced me. I can't vote for Ron Paul, because he is a racist. I can't vote for Romney, because hes a politician rino. I cant vote for Cain, because he has been accused of sexual harrasment while not a democrat. I cant vote for santorum, because he wont win. I cant vote for Bachmann, because she is clumsy and cant beat obama. I can't vote for I can't vote for Gingrich because SCOZZAFAVA!!!!!! oh wait that doesnt matter now, right? fuck you all, Im not voting. tell me why i should, and for whom.

Posted by: hurr durr at January 20, 2012 08:23 PM (1j0Ba)

474 453 The Ryan budget is only a start, or we're screwed. None of our
candidates - and few who bash Paul - dare ever fucking admit it though.



Wrong. A number of conservatives have admitted it is only a start.

Posted by: Miss80s at January 20, 2012 08:24 PM (d6QMz)

475 they love him, so he is a member of their .... religion/racism, whatever their bullshit is?

Posted by: hurr durr at January 20, 2012 08:24 PM (1j0Ba)

476 hey love him, so he is a member of their .... religion/racism, whatever their bullshit is?
Posted by: hurr durr at January 20, 2012 08:24 PM (1j0Ba)

Read the user comments wherever Paul is mentioned on Stormfront. Read the user comments wherever Paul is mentioned on Jared Taylor's American Renaissance site. Read the user comments wherever Paul is mentioned on Spotlight. If you want to know more about Willis Carto, look him up on the Nizcor site.

You will find staunch support for Ron Paul on those sites, as well as detailed explanations of why he is supported on those sites. The majority of the posters believe Dr. Paul is keeping his bigotry on the down-low, so not to alienate potential supporters who have been fooled into thinking Paul is somehow a traditional Republican.

I can't make it any plainer--or easier to verify. Paul is adored on those sites because the 'racialist' crowd views him as a kindred spirit, one of their own.

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 08:35 PM (YCeSE)

477 "Ron Paul thinks you can balance the budget without seriously reforming entitlements, which is absurd given that the majority of our spending is mandatory spending. You could shutter every government department and still be in the red, and he does not seem to understand that"
Disagree with this. Just watch the debate last night. Paul has repeatedly said he doesn't want to just stop sending old ladies their social security checks. He has said similar things about Afghanistan even... he wouldn't just pull the plug. He recognizes that it has to be phased out, but that is something that can realistically happen in 5 years vs. the 80 the other "conservatives" are talking about. Entire departments like commerce, energy, education, etc., can be done away with overnight, leaving more money for the entitlements, which can then be phased out.
Paul has never called for getting rid of social security in a short period of time, he's called for balancing the budget in a short period of time, with entitlements being phased out.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 08:37 PM (HS3dy)

478 "You will find staunch support for Ron Paul on those sites, as well as detailed explanations of why he is supported on those sites."
So what! If those guys like the same brands of consumer products as you will you go out and boycott all those companies? You're talking about apples and oranges. The fact that a bunch of anti-Semites like Paul because he doesn't want to keep supporting Israel financially doesn't make Paul or his reasons for not wanting to do so anti-Semitic. How clearer can that be made?
Those same clowns also disagree with things like affirmative action. Does that mean everybody who is against affirmative action is a neo-Nazi racist?

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 08:41 PM (HS3dy)

479 (1) Ron Paul thinks you can balance the budget without seriously reforming entitlements, which is absurd given that the majority of our spending is mandatory spending. You could shutter every government department and still be in the red, and he does not seem to understand that.
Do you know how happy I'd be if Rick Santorum said that to him?

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 08:41 PM (Ci0JG)

480 Boom!
All past sins forgiven. I know you don't like libertarians and you're probably going to mandate the missionary position. Say that to Paul on live TV and you have my full support.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 08:42 PM (Ci0JG)

481 "(2) RE NDAA, here is a good piece and there are two more at the bottom of the first paragraph. Now reread the counterterrorism section of NDAA, specifically Sec. 1021-1022. "
LOL. This is the biggest lie ever. All the neocon liberals like McCarthy are in open defense of this bill. Go do some searches, this is a well vetted topic. Obama andMitch McConnell (the author of the bill), among numerous others like John McCain all openly acknowledged that the bill DOES authorize the indefinite detention of American citizens on US soil. Go do the research, watch the videos of then on CSPAN all saying such. There is no question about this. You are drinking from the koolaid trough.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 08:46 PM (HS3dy)

482 "You will find staunch support for Ron Paul on those sites, as well as detailed explanations of why he is supported on those sites."
Black people support democrats 9-1.
Does that mean that democrats social policies are better for black communities?
What does Ron Paul advocate doing domestically, that would harm minorities or Jewish people?
Granted, his foreign policy could be seen as somewhat hostile to Israel. That isI think a quiet legitimate criticism of him, and I don't think he often sounds great on foreign policy.I'm not going to argue it's totally unreasonable to construe his policies as anti-Israeli, regardless of whether that is motivated by a personal antisemitism.
Mel Gibson is a raging antisemite, doesn't mean I don't like Braveheart. I also am not convinced Paul is anti-semitic, but I don't see that it matters.
His policies would by and large help minorities in this country. Bottom line. He's so racist he wants to help minorities with good policy.
Besides - he'll never win. He's there for discussion, essentially. So discuss. Why do you choose to focus on what you find most repulsive? Is Paul so damaging to race relations in this country that addressing his (alleged) raging bigotry is more important than his fiscal message - which by the way, is all I hear out of him? I find that preposterous.
I bet Paul does better with a number of minorities than most Republicans would.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 08:50 PM (Ci0JG)

483 The Ryan budget is only a start, or we're screwed. None of our candidates - and few who bash Paul - dare ever fucking admit it though.Wrong. A number of conservatives have admitted it is only a start.
OK. Please read now and tell me where you went wrong.
I'm pretty sure that goal-post picked up and walked away.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 08:56 PM (Ci0JG)

484 Sorry Entopy, you are obviously more well versed in this than I am. Your arguments are much more intelligent than mine. I'm just tired of the BS. I don't hate Jews. But you Know what? this false we must support the Jewish state or nobody will thing is utter crap. You know who will end up protecting Israel? The Israelis. Their not going to wither away because the US doesn't support them. They can defend themselves, and they will.. They aren't going to cry and become Muslim because the PC US government doesn't support them. They know, like most of us in the US do, THE Federal government of the United States is there for their own furtherance. Ask Bebe what he thinks about that.

Posted by: hurr durr at January 20, 2012 08:57 PM (1j0Ba)

485 Sorry Entopy, you are obviously more well versed in this than I am. Your arguments are much more intelligent than mine. I'm just tired of the BS. I don't hate Jews. But you Know what? this false we must support the Jewish state or nobody will thing is utter crap. You know who will end up protecting Israel? The Israelis.
Hurr Durr I'm not accusing you of being an antisemite. I am definetly not a neocon, I like the direction of some of Pauls foreign policy, but the way he expresses it - particularly in the mid east - doest strike me as naive. At least that's the way he comes across.
What he would actually do, I think, is a bit different than how he comes across. But how he comes across is how he comes across, (especially given that he won't be POTUS) is possibly the most relevant thing.
I'm not even willing to conlude he's antisemtic based on that. Or anti-Israel. My hunch is I probably would agree with his stated positions on Israel, things like the fact they are no fragile fragile shirking violet and they won't be wiped off the earth but for our $10B shared defense contractor slush fund. They might even be better off without us, if without us they could manage to take a harder line against their neolithic nutjob terrorist neighbors.
I just think, I wouldn't want to bother to argue over it, it's reasonable to see Pauls foreign policy as somewhat hostile to the nation of Israel. I don't hold that view myself that Paul is, but I don't think it's crazy for people to think that and I can see where they get the impression.
You get him talking about Iran, I think he sometimes gets cringeworthy. For his own sake I wish he'd shut up, not necessarily on substance, but in the ways he says it and the impression he leaves.
Although again, I don't think it's a reason to hate him, or brand him some kind of genocidal maniac.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 09:10 PM (Ci0JG)

486
You want any trace of libertarians gone from your party, you'll get it.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 06:27 PM (Ci0JG)


How about we start with you? Now go get your fuckin shine box you Paulsamic Vinegar drinking asshole.

Posted by: Unclefacts Out Of Commenting Retirement Just For This One Thing at January 20, 2012 09:14 PM (6IReR)

487 Those same clowns also disagree with things like affirmative action. Does that mean everybody who is against affirmative action is a neo-Nazi racist?

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 08:41 PM (HS3dy)

You're arguing a fallacy, especially since Paul has long written and spoken out in terms that can only be construed as antisemitic and racist--you know, phrases like 'the animals are coming' when referring to Black americans. His hatred of 'Neocons', which is commonly understood to mean Jewish conservatives, as well as those gentile conservatives who strongly support Israel. Further, as myself and others have exhaustively pointed out, Paul has direct connections with the 'racialist' and Holocaust denial movements. And then of course there is Paul's enthusiastic involvement in the Alex Jones' documentary, 'Endgame', which is nothing more than an antisemitic rant in video form, envisioning a world where an evil cabal of Zionist international bankers are seeking global domination.

We're not talking about accidental associations or some inexplicable convergence of common interests.

But you know all this, of course. You know as well as I do that the Ron Paul 'movement' is crawling with Ayran untermenschen, but you and yours are desperate to deny the connection. After all, Paul calls himself a Republican not because he is a Republican but because he hopes to give his fringe beliefs the imprimatur of mainstream respectability he would not receive if he ran as a Libertarian.

Paul's an old-school America Firster bigot. In a just world, that crazy racist bastard would be exiled to Zimbabwe for life, where he could work on his social skills.

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 09:15 PM (YCeSE)

488 Start with the "buy a gallon of gas for one thin dime". Who fell for this? Ronulus Maximus admits that he really means "one thin silver dime", a dime not minted in the last 45 years. Virtually no one has them. Those that do ... well, the price of silver makes them worth about $3.50. Try to get a gallon of gas for one silver dime ... the gas station will take them at face value (10 cents), as they are real money (as per Ron). Melt one down, and the silver is worth $3.50 ... but gas stations won't take silver, only money.
Ron wasn't really telling the truth.
That's the dumbest gotcha I ever heard.
He used a gimicky hook? OMG! RACIST!

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 09:17 PM (Ci0JG)

489 481 Subtitle D--Counterterrorism


SEC. 1021. AFFIRMATION OF AUTHORITY OF THE ARMED FORCES OF THE UNITED
STATES TO DETAIN COVERED PERSONS PURSUANT TO THE AUTHORIZATION FOR USE
OF MILITARY FORCE.



(b) Covered Persons- A covered person under this section is any person as follows:


(1) A person who planned, authorized, committed, or
aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or
harbored those responsible for those attacks.

(2) A person who was a part of or substantially
supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged
in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners,
including any person who has committed a belligerent act or has directly
supported such hostilities in aid of such enemy forces.


SEC. 1022. MILITARY CUSTODY FOR FOREIGN AL-QAEDA TERRORISTS





(a) Custody Pending Disposition Under Law of War-







(2) COVERED PERSONS- The requirement in paragraph (1) shall
apply to any person whose detention is authorized under section 1021 who
is determined--






(A) to be a member of, or part of, al-Qaeda or an
associated force that acts in coordination with or pursuant to the
direction of al-Qaeda; and






(B) to have participated in the course of planning
or carrying out an attack or attempted attack against the United States
or its coalition partners.






(b) Applicability to United States Citizens and Lawful Resident Aliens-


(1) UNITED STATES CITIZENS- The requirement to detain a
person in military custody under this section does not extend to
citizens of the United States.




(2) LAWFUL RESIDENT ALIENS- The requirement to detain a
person in military custody under this section does not extend to a
lawful resident alien of the United States on the basis of conduct
taking place within the United States, except to the extent permitted by
the Constitution of the United States.

Posted by: Miss80s at January 20, 2012 09:18 PM (d6QMz)

490 troy, the problem there as has been established many times over is that Paul didnt write that stuff, lol. Again, AGAIN, show me a video of Paul saying anything along those lines. The president of the NAACP even came out in defense of Paul regarding that material.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 09:20 PM (HS3dy)

491 His hatred of 'Neocons', which is commonly understood to mean Jewish conservatives, as well as those gentile conservatives who strongly support Israel.
People have used "neocon" to mean whatever they want.
In it's truest since, say ... Bill Kristol, Paul's not unwarranted in his animosity. Not cuz the dude is Jewish, cuz he's a warmonger. Advocating for the invasion of Libya was the last straw - there is no problem Kristol doesn't see a solution to by invading something.
You want to talk about monstrous baggage, how about the guy who doesn't mind starting wars and getting thousands of people killed just to give the US a central purpose to rally around and unify over.
That's fucking sick.
The defining belief of neoconservativism, JFK conservatism, Bush foreign policy conservatism, is essentially, internationalist. That the US has a duty to be pushing for the right policies all over the globe, a duty to invade and oust every tyrant and patrole every backwater election, in pursuit of some Wilsonian utopian global agenda.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 09:22 PM (Ci0JG)

492 The president of the NAACP even came out in defense of Paul regarding that material.
Curious... anyone know of a poll that polls Pauls support (relative to other Republicans) among African Americans?
I really do suspect he's higher than any of the other candidates.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 09:24 PM (Ci0JG)

493 I agree about the cringeworthy/naive thing, and I was really serious,you know more about it than I do. I agree with what you are saying.. And, before Obama, I could see people thinking his policy as hostile to Israel. ( I see it as an extension of the libertarian philosophy, which I think Israel already has and is more than capable of fullfilling).

I have't followed up on the links to his racist comments with his newsletter or his connections to whoever.. perhaps I should.

I do think if he knew Iran was close to having nukes, he would do the right thing. Maybe I'm naive as well, but I'm not going to let the government tell me what to do, when to do it, how much I should make, etc.

I just happen to think that Israel cn take care of themselves for a while(they would have the balls to take on Iran long before we would) and we can start taking care of the long slippery slope to entitlement default and union sponsored private business destruction we are on.

“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye."

We cant win alone, but we can't blame each other.

Posted by: hurr durr at January 20, 2012 09:24 PM (1j0Ba)

494 What is this "America Firster" stuff?
It is obviously implied to be bad. It does not sound bad. One would think in America's policy, America would come first.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 09:30 PM (Ci0JG)

495 483 OK. Please read now and tell me where you went wrong.
I'm pretty sure that goal-post picked up and walked away.

"None of candidates"= Not Romney, Newt, or Santorum

"and few who bash Paul"= conservative members of the electorate who dislike Ron Paul

Posted by: Miss80s at January 20, 2012 09:31 PM (d6QMz)

496 "troy, the problem there as has been established many times over is that Paul didnt write that stuff, lol. Again, AGAIN, show me a video of Paul saying anything along those lines. The president of the NAACP even came out in defense of Paul regarding that material."
Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 09:20 PM (HS3dy)

Paul engaged the services of Lew Rockwell as ghostwriter, lol. Paul cashed the checks generated by the newsletters written by Lew Rockwell, lol. Paul claims to never have read any of the newsletters that generated $1 million/year in income, lol. Paul's solicitation letters were written by Paul himself, lol. Paul's friendship and association with antisemites Alex Jones and Lew Rockwell and Willis Carto are real and verifiable, lol.

It goes on and on. Again, it isn't that you don't know what I'm writing is true regarding Paul's connections to the white supremacist movement. It's that you keep shifting the argument to yet another aspect of Paul's slimy beliefs and background that hasn't been covered yet, claiming if I don't furnish yet more proof then my entire argument; i.e., that Ron Paul is a not-so-closeted bigot, is negated.

Give it up.

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 09:35 PM (YCeSE)

497 What is this "America Firster" stuff?

It is obviously implied to be bad. It does not sound bad. One would think in America's policy, America would come first.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 09:30 PM (Ci0JG)

Cute. You know precisely what I'm referring to when I reference the America First movement. Those are the antisemitic assholes closely allied with the German-American Bund just prior to the outbreak of WWII. Look it up.

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 09:39 PM (YCeSE)

498 troyriser... who should I vote for, and why?

Posted by: hurr durr at January 20, 2012 09:40 PM (1j0Ba)

499 I do think if he knew Iran was close to having nukes, he would do the right thing. Maybe I'm naive as well, but I'm not going to let the government tell me what to do, when to do it, how much I should make, etc.
As regards Foreign Policy, Paul has some serious weaknesses but I honestly don't care.
I do support Israel, I don't think he'd fuck her sideways, I do think they can survive even if America fucks them sideways such as Obama is now doing. So I pretty much just agree with you.
But above and beyond all of that - I put foreign policy urgency (false urgency, IMO) ahead of practically all my interests for8 years.
I am done. It's been 11years.We cannot be a permanent state of emergency. Time to go back to domestic issues. I will not put foreign policy issues or the world's problems ahead of our own. Domestic issues trump everything. The greatest threat to American liberty is domestic, in the form of our own government. They are more dangerous to us than Iran.
To that end, Israel, Japan, Australia, Poland, Britain - there is not a foreign country I would not fuck to get a balanced budget at home. Sorry guys, gotta do what you gotta do. I expect all those nations to have policies in their own interest and take care of their own needs first, before heping us later, if they can. I don't expect any of them to conform to American US interests. And that is I think how we should operate with regard to them.
So I really don't care what Paul's foreign policy is, honestly. Fix our own problems here first, before we can afford to worry about anybody else. Domestic issues above all, for me.
I wouldn't expect everyone to agree, but that's my position. Foreign policy issues are irrelevant unless we fix our government.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 09:44 PM (Ci0JG)

500 Thanks, Entropy, I feel better knowing at least one person has the same feelings as me.

have a good weekend, Im, out.

Posted by: hurr durr at January 20, 2012 09:47 PM (1j0Ba)

501 The defining belief of neoconservativism, JFK conservatism, Bush foreign policy conservatism, is essentially, internationalist. That the US has a duty to be pushing for the right policies all over the globe, a duty to invade and oust every tyrant and patrole every backwater election, in pursuit of some Wilsonian utopian global agenda.

------------------

Not really. The best definition I've heard for Neo-conservatism was articulated by Max Boot. Essentially, that the fostering of liberal democracy was something that America and the free West should always push for because of the long term benefit if provides for the future of free nations. The use of force is an option as is diplomatic and economic pressure. That a cost benefit analysis should always be a factor when making the judgement of which to pursue. If the cost if armed conflict is considered to be too high then don't take that option.

Ultimately, this kind of outlook builds good will and confidence in America as a reliable and decent ally among the kinds of people we would want as allies. It builds security for us as it builds the kind of trust and cooperation we need from others. It isn't perfect and not everyone that we assist in one way or another will turn out to be the best ally we could wish for. But that's not Wilsonian utopianism. Rather, it's hard headed pragmatism about an America that won't always be the strongest nation.

Posted by: Da Joos at January 20, 2012 09:54 PM (789+D)

502 Cute. You know precisely what I'm referring to when I reference the America First movement. Those are the antisemitic assholes closely allied with the German-American Bund just prior to the outbreak of WWII. Look it up.
No I really do not. Lindburg type stuff?
So, then, this is going back to WWII? His WWII opposition? 50 years ago?
That is some ancient right stuff, and Paul is kind of ancient and anachronistic. That's what the right was on about back then, in opposition to FDR. That was basically 1940's trutherism.
Nobody in America knew about the camps. Nazi symps couldn't have opposed the war over the camps, because we didn't go to war over the camps.
Do you know anything about naziism? It israging and agressivesocialism, in the Nazi's case, all the way down to trying toregulate even the genetic composition of their proletariat, the very make-up of a human, or a citizen - at least as they saw it (I remain unconvinced genetics account for very much,and race is genetics).
How the fuck does it co-travel with classical liberalism? Libertarianism? How?
Apart from certain issues - opposing the (I will say: necessary and just)war. Sure. Staying out of the nazi's way abroad.
But what effect does this have on anything? Tell me, do you support thought-crime legistlation? I mean, we're just rooting out symbolism here.
What does the guy do? He has some wacky, cranky, oldfashiony, maybe even a bit prejudiced opions. And his position is the government shouldn't act on any of them. That's all he does - no the government should not. No, no, nope, no.
He wants us to do nothing.
Let's say he does want us to do nothing to help minorities because he is a racist bastard. Why does it matter when he wants to do nothing with anything anyway, which is the right thing to do?
Maybe not in WWII, but fuck I ain't that old. This is a history book issue to me, not even the 'modern' era.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 09:56 PM (Ci0JG)

503 Dang sock.

Posted by: Wonkish Rogue at January 20, 2012 09:56 PM (789+D)

504 "troyriser... who should I vote for, and why?"
Posted by: hurr durr at January 20, 2012 09:40 PM (1j0Ba)

Simple: in the primaries, I recommend voting for Gingrich, Romney, or Santorum. Personally, I'll be voting for Romney in the primaries but feel confident either Gingrich or Santorum would lead the country as sane Republicans. Paul is neither.

In the general, vote for the GOP nominee and against Obama.

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 10:01 PM (YCeSE)

505 Maybe not in WWII, but fuck I ain't that old. This is a history book issue to me, not even the 'modern' era.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 09:56 PM (Ci0JG)

Your age has nothing to do with anything here. Throughout American history, there have been movements and parties that reflect the very worst of our national character: the Know Nothings, the Anti-Masonic Party, the Copperheads during the Civil War, the Ku Klux Klan, the America Firsters, George Lincoln Rockwell's Nazi Party, Pat Buchanan's Paleoconservative movement, and now Ron Paul libertarians.

Times change, but willful ignorance and mindless bigotry are constants.

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 10:08 PM (YCeSE)

506 I will tell you, honestly, no I am not of that sort of semi-bigoted isolationist.
But they are - damn them - right on policy.
Me, if anything, I'm metropolitan. Sukunai no nihongo wa hanishimasu ka. (I kind of like that Huntsman can speak Chinese). Parochial? no. Isolationist? Hell no.I'm not even very jingoist.
I support free trade. In an ideal world, free immigration.
Because those are areas where the government does nothing. To get those things, do nothing. But in our real world we cannot have free immigration. The most efffective and realistic defense against terroists is to shut down immigration from muslim countries. We don't need them, they aren't worth it - they certainly aren't worth the farce that is The Sex-offender Agency. Not that lots of them aren't great, but we don't need specifically 'muslim' or 'arab' citizens. Plus we already have a lot, if you want more, cross your fingers and hope they get busy.
But they're also, generally right in opposition to foreign wars. Not in the case of WWII, but that was the exception not the rule. Korea, while justified and good, was not necessary or worth it. Vietnam, noble, and won on the battlefield and stolen by the commie-sympmedia, we never should have been there though. That was JFK neoconservatism. We had no business in Vietnam getting US teenagers killed over foreigners ideology. Look what damage Vietnam did to us, and look what good it did. What good would it have done in an ideal world? Good for Vietnamese? Most of these wars suck, and are unneccessary or even detrimental to our defense, and to be against them is the safer impulse.
Like in the case of free trade, the better option is to err on the side of inaction from government. Do nothing.
Why they support the right position I do not care. How do you screen voters? You would really try to bar racist dickheads from voting for your candidate? Votes are fungible... don't you want to win? Why would you throw any retarded fool away? Certainly lots of retards will be voting on haircuts and ties. Why even pay attention to those retards?

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 10:12 PM (Ci0JG)

507 "It goes on and on. Again, it isn't that you don't know what I'm writing is true regarding Paul's connections to the white supremacist movement. It's that you keep shifting the argument to yet another aspect of Paul's slimy beliefs and background that hasn't been covered yet, claiming if I don't furnish yet more proof then my entire argument; i.e., that Ron Paul is a not-so-closeted bigot, is negated. Give it up. "
And your response to the part about the TX NAACP president coming out in defense of Paul? All you have is circumstantial references and conjecture, while ignoring the hoards of evidence that show the opposite.
I will say again, Paul hasdenounced that material... which is like 20 years old BTW. And to be perfectly honest, the material itself isn't really even racist. I can show you a Robin Williams standup routine from the same era with similar language. From across the conservative sphere that type of language was rather common, very insensitive for sure, not politcally correct like today's language, but it was in reference to LA riots and other such racially-charged events that were taking place.
At worst you can argue Paul has had alliances with some questionable people, but how is that any different than Reagan inviting the Taliban over to the white house? Would you call Reagan a terrorist?Because of Paul's rogue status in Congress he has at times been involved with some fringe folks. Doing what he can he setup these newsletters without being involved in every aspect of the process and without knowing perfectly everybody that was participating. And it was a problem he self-corrected.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 10:15 PM (HS3dy)

508 "Personally, I'll be voting for Romney in the primaries but feel confident either Gingrich or Santorum would lead the country as sane Republicans."
Romney is not a conservative and frankly isn't a whole lot different than Obama. It will take a few more years for people like you to come around... but I have confidence you will at some point. Hopefully when they day comes though it isn't too late.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 10:20 PM (HS3dy)

509 "Why they support the right position I do not care. How do you screen voters? You would really try to bar racist dickheads from voting for your candidate? Votes are fungible... don't you want to win? Why would you throw any retarded fool away? Certainly lots of retards will be voting on haircuts and ties. Why even pay attention to those retards?"

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 10:12 PM (Ci0JG)

Christ said, 'You shall know them by their fruits.' Look at Ron Paul, and then look at the fruits he calls supporters. No way do I want to be on the same side with men who believe as they do.

btw, as someone has already pointed out, basement-dwelling, tinfoil hat-wearing Ron Paul true believers are guaranteed to make spectacles of themselves at the GOP convention, allowing the MSM to portray the Republican Party as a party of extremists and fringe conspiracy theorists. President Obama thanks you in advance.

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 10:25 PM (YCeSE)

510 "At worst you can argue Paul has had alliances with some questionable people, but how is that any different than Reagan inviting the Taliban over to the white house? Would you call Reagan a terrorist? Because of Paul's rogue status in Congress he has at times been involved with some fringe folks. Doing what he can he setup these newsletters without being involved in every aspect of the process and without knowing perfectly everybody that was participating. And it was a problem he self-corrected."

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 10:15 PM (HS3dy)

The Taliban literally didn't exist in name or fact when Reagan was President of the United States. Look it up.

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 10:27 PM (YCeSE)

511 For you, Entropy:



Tinyurl can go to hell. However, do a quick google search on 'Thomas Sowell' and the 'gold standard.' What you'll find:





a) Crazy impractical (and probably racist, too) advocating getting rid of the Fed. (last year)


b) Crazy impractical (and probably racist, too) Thomas Sowell discussing the gold standard, as if it wasn't obviously crazy and impractical. (!!!!)



That should allow you to, let us say, cause some cognitive dissonance in the future.



It's almost as if, my God, so many of these supposedly crazy things, were once basic Conservative, common sense policies.



My head's spinning at the thought. Next they'll tell me that militarism
wasn't a basic foundational value and necessary feature of free
societies. Or some other crazy notion.

Posted by: MlR at January 20, 2012 10:40 PM (vj9lA)

512 Should be: a) Crazy impractical (and probably racist, too) Thomas Sowell advocating getting rid of the Fed. (last year)

Again, screw Tinyurl.

Posted by: MlR at January 20, 2012 10:42 PM (vj9lA)

513 "My head's spinning at the thought. Next they'll tell me that militarism wasn't a basic foundational value and necessary feature of free societies. Or some other crazy notion."
Posted by: MlR at January 20, 2012 10:40 PM (vj9lA)

You're arguing a fallacy, making a straw man argument. No one anywhere has claimed militarism is a basic foundational value of a free society. Try harder.

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 10:45 PM (YCeSE)

514 You know what really marks WWII? Besides the fact that our enemies really were threats to our security, and threats to the whole globe sowing chaos and war everywhere?
We got attacked.
You can argue we got attacked on 9/11 too. Afghanistan was a proper reaction. Stomping Al Quada and the Taliban is great. I dunno what occupation is supposed to do for us.
Hussein was a bastard, a real real bastard, literally - he was nazi. People don't know that. Hussein was a nazi - the baath were the german-sympathizing nazi party, like those Bund types here but much worse and much more successful.
Evil shit and it's nice what we did, very charitable for Iraq. But they were never a threat to us.
If you're gonna do something like that, you know, they damn well better pay for it. We get the oil or something. It's only fair. The French charged us for their help in the revolution - you pay off the costs over time. That was the proper way to aid foreign allies.
If we're going to be raging pussies about it, we damn well better be almost isolationist and keep our paws off the army before some dipshit politician breaks it, like Kennedy, Johnson and Nixon did in Vietnam.
Iraq was unnecessary, any way you slice it, and the US is not a charitable organization, neocons have no right to ask these costs for their wilsonian crusades.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 10:46 PM (Ci0JG)

515 The Taliban literally didn't exist in name or fact when Reagan was President of the United States. Look it up.

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 10:27 PM (YCeSE)

At the risk of descending into the swamp, Andrew's referring to then mujahadine Jalaluddin Haqanni, patriarch of the "Haqanni network," now the most deadly anti-American militia in Afghanistan. Haqanni was invited to the White House and toasted by idiot turned movie celebrity Charlie Wilson as "the personification of goodness."Oh the tangled webs we weave, when we first practice to intervene.

Posted by: MlR at January 20, 2012 10:51 PM (vj9lA)

516 You're arguing a fallacy, making a straw man argument. No one anywhere has claimed militarism is a basic foundational value of a free society.
*cough*bill kristol*cough*

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 10:53 PM (Ci0JG)

517
You're arguing a fallacy, making a straw man argument. No one anywhere
has claimed militarism is a basic foundational value of a free society.
Try harder.

Yeah, perhaps you should read the National Greatness conservatives over at the Weekly Standard a little more often. Perhaps you also missed the last Republican nominee, who's only lifelong claim to fame was his military background. Or the constant glorification of military service as an end to itself. (I'm military myself, so I can say that without being patriotic, right? Or maybe that just makes me a sleeper agent.) Or the fact that most of the rest of you just happen to advocate and support policies that lead to endless warfare.

Posted by: MlR at January 20, 2012 10:57 PM (vj9lA)

518 Heh, M1R, I saw Sowell on some End the Fed business. That he was down for a gold standard I did not know, although it's not suprising.
For the record, I think the gold standard focuses on the wrong thing. We need hard money. It doesn't matter if it's gold or not, so long as it's hard and non-inflationary. If we can get that with a gold standard that's fine. If we can get it without agold standard, that's fine too.
I think it just takes the right monetarypolicy. And if we ever get people actually willing to go to a gold standard, well we won't even need it.
I certainly wouldn't oppose the effort though.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 10:58 PM (Ci0JG)

519 "Iraq was unnecessary, any way you slice it, and the US is not a charitable organization, neocons have no right to ask these costs for their wilsonian crusades."

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 10:46 PM (Ci0JG)

Personally, I was of the 'green glass' school of Iraqi engagement. Any time a foreign aggressor attempts to harm us militarily, I believe in reducing that country to rubble and sowing the soil with salt. But that's just me.

Next week, my 18-year-old son goes to Indianapolis for his Army physical. Two weeks after that, he enlists and then leaves for basic training after graduation. He's going to be Airborne Infantry, as I was. I have taught him some things are worth fighting for, killing for, even dying for. Insofar as I can tell, you Ron Paul supporters hate our country, believe it's a war-mongering, imperialistic aggressor and that poor, persecuted Iran, for example, is just doing what it can to resist our evil, hegemonic intentions.

Despicable, all of you.

Posted by: troyriser at January 20, 2012 11:02 PM (YCeSE)

520 I don't want to put words in his mouth. Namely, he speaks favorably of the restraints it posed on the government printing presses and its ability to control the economy, noting that was precisely why FDR brought us off of it. However, he also says that the entire question of whether "the gold
standard is the right system for a country, is a much more complicated
questions than can be answered [in a column.]"

While I'm deeply distrustful of the origins, machinations, and opaqueness of the Fed (a dozen+ unaccountable 'experts' planning interest rates is not capitalism), I'm personally agnostic on the gold standard. But the point you probably already know is obviously is that the notion itself isn't nuts. And indeed less than 100 years earlier, during a much more economically freer time, it would have been common sense.

I don't think Paul himself advocates a gold standard. I think he takes Hayek's line (another crazy!) that we should at least begin with competing currencies, so competition will put pressure on the treasury to rein in itself.

Posted by: MlR at January 20, 2012 11:16 PM (vj9lA)

521 "Any time a foreign aggressor attempts to harm us militarily, I believe in reducing that country to rubble and sowing the soil with salt. But that's just me."
How did Iraq attempt to harm us militarily?
"Next week, my 18-year-old son goes to Indianapolis for his Army physical. Two weeks after that, he enlists and then leaves for basic training after graduation. He's going to be Airborne Infantry, as I was. I have taught him some things are worth fighting for, killing for, even dying for. Insofar as I can tell, you Ron Paul supporters hate our country, believe it's a war-mongering, imperialistic aggressor and that poor, persecuted Iran, for example, is just doing what it can to resist our evil, hegemonic intentions. Despicable, all of you."
Good for him. He'll learn a lot. I served in Afghanistan. Before and since then have lived in the ME for years as a civilian and with the military. I speak Arabic and enlisted despite having an engineering degree. Perhaps you don't know as much about Paul supporters as you think. When Paul claims to have received more donations from active duty military than all the other canidates combined that isn't a fancy slogan, it's the truth. It's public record.
Romney and Gingrich are both draft dodgers. Paul served honorably.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 11:17 PM (HS3dy)

522 He's going to be Airborne Infantry, as I was.
I have taught him some things are worth fighting for, killing for, even
dying for. Insofar as I can tell, you Ron Paul supporters hate our
country, believe it's a war-mongering, imperialistic aggressor and that
poor, persecuted Iran, for example, is just doing what it can to resist
our evil, hegemonic intentions.





Despicable, all of you.

Well, you know what they say about people who jump out of perfectly good airplanes.

Posted by: MlR at January 20, 2012 11:21 PM (vj9lA)

523 Christ said, 'You shall know them by their fruits.' Look at Ron Paul, and then look at the fruits he calls supporters. No way do I want to be on the same side with men who believe as they do.
You don't get it.
Look honestly at the founding fathers, and the nations other leading historical figures. Or look honestly at some of the scum in there right now. There is vileness, and among some of the best, there is kookiness like you would not believe.
In our founding bunch we now idolize, we had guys who supported terrorism. The others had to beg them to hold back, they were itching to blow stuff up. Loyalists businesses, and that damnable Shelbyville courthouse.
Andrew Jackson was quite a figure. The Jackson Democrats were right. Jackson was a figure, flawed, who was fighting for our liberties and our republic. He was also a genocidal nutjob and a stone cold killer. Literally, that man killed a shitload of people, and I don't mean 'on orders' I mean by hand.
Thomas Jefferson basically supported andapologized forthe armedWhiskey rebellion against Washington. How's that for anti-american?
Thomas Paine was basically a communist.
It was suppose to be a diverse group of very eclectic types from different places with different interests. All people from all walks of life, not just fucking lawyers and lawyers and more lawyers, all of whom went to Harvard or Yale.
Do you know why? Because they weren't suppose to agree. They weren't suppose to get things done. At the federal level, very little should happen, only on things there is very very broad agreement. It takes all kinds of kook to agree on almost nothing with that much power to be had, objecting is their job.
You are not supposed to be 'on the same side' as him.You're suppose to be disagreeing alot and getting nothing done and gridlocking government with them, for your own reasons as they theirs, which preserves us all, racist dickhead and racial minority alike.
Like greed, and capitalism. The whole idea of the system, man... the whole fucking idea, is not some naive dumbfuck idea of ridding the world of it's bad sorts and unfashionable impulses. It was about accepting it, rationally and realistically, as a constant and a given, and co-opting it toward something useful.

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 11:56 PM (Ci0JG)

524 you Ron Paul supporters hate our country, believe it's a war-mongering, imperialistic aggressor and that poor, persecuted Iran, for example, is just doing what it can to resist our evil, hegemonic intentions.
There they go again.
Fuck Africa, fuck their pirates, and fuck their genocides, fuck their arab springs.
There I said it.
I now denounce myself as racist andanti-american.
But remember folks, no one says militarism is a basic foundational value of a free society.

Posted by: Entropy at January 21, 2012 12:01 AM (Ci0JG)

525 Don't sweat it.

Ace's got another post up calling Paul a racist.

Do you think this white hood looks better on me? Or should I go with the turban?

Again, the fish rots from the head.

For probably the first time in my life I'll probably start laughing rather than sympathize next time I watch the same people outraged that a major Republican/Conservative politician has been smeared as a racist.

Posted by: MlR at January 21, 2012 12:12 AM (vj9lA)

526 However, he also says that the entire question of whether "the gold standard is the right system for a country, is a much more complicated questions than can be answered [in a column.]"
In absolute truth... I'm not sure I can claim to be sure of anything. That's Macro stuff, monetary standards... and Hayeks great contribution was basically that macro stuff is all kind of bullshitty. Knowledge problem.
I just know we'll have the right answer if we let everybody figure it out, instead of some dickhead 'expert' (might as well claim I'm one, what have they got I don't? All sorts of dipshits experts. I can quote lots of scholarly books and cite shit.)
So.. private currency.
If the gold stuff is better... then I'll use the gold. If not, not. If both turn out to have advantages, we may find there's advantage to having both. Crazy as that is, I think it'd be the best thing. Government did not always print money. Money didn't start off government.We didn't use to need government for money. Lots of people didn't like governments siezing the whole business.
Now they argue that all of it is fundementally theirs, and they let us keep a bit, because they are the only ones who can print it.... I'm thinking they might have tricked grandpa. Money is about credit. Credibility. Faith and Trust. Fiat - then that's all there is - and gold too (did you assay it? Trust the stamp? Trust the report? Trust the scale?).
Standard's and Poors, Moodys, these guys have a lot more credibility and public faith than government does. And when they turn out to be bastards and they dont - they have hungry competitors. We can essentially fire them. We won't just stand around like apes staring at the ground and beating it with sticks because we don't know what currency to use. Something will found to fill the void, and that something will be more responsive to consumer sentiment than government.

Posted by: Entropy at January 21, 2012 12:15 AM (Ci0JG)

527 There's a market for it too.
If you get any good at it, they toss you in jail for counterfeiting legal tender by producing something usable as real tender.
They will lock your silvermongering ass up.

Posted by: Entropy at January 21, 2012 12:17 AM (Ci0JG)

528 I'm not into it. I like Mastercard. I use plastic.
Silver dime business, kinda hokey to me.
But I don't think you should throw them in jail with the potheads and the drug addicts.
I'm worried they might start doing drugs and then that will make them even worse, since pot has been proven to cause schizophrenia and racism.

Posted by: Entropy at January 21, 2012 12:20 AM (Ci0JG)

529 Romney and Gingrich are both draft dodgers. Paul served honorably.

Posted by: Andrew at January 20, 2012 11:17 PM (HS3dy)

Another falsehood. Gingrich, yes. Romney? No. Romney, rich child of privilege that he was, took a religious deferment while on his Mormon mission and then an academic deferment while in college, but submitted to the draft in 1970. He drew a high number and so wasn't required to serve.

Get it straight, Andrew. I keep catching you and yours out because you and yours keep twisting the facts to fit your argument. Getting your information about Romney's deferment record from 'DailyPaul' talking points is unwise. It's like Wikipedia, only more politically biased and as crazy as your leader.

Posted by: troyriser at January 21, 2012 12:23 AM (YCeSE)

530 LOL.

And even worse, vote for Ron Paul. Who supports schizophrenia and racism. QED and DEQ.

Posted by: MlR at January 21, 2012 12:23 AM (vj9lA)

531 You know one of the good things about libertarian M1R? The fun things?
You can racecard the hell out of them when they deserve it. Ever see the statistics on drug arrests?
The primary purpose of the police in most inner-city areas is not to preserve the law, but to keep the 'troublemakers' restricted to the camp, where gang violence has often driven out all the businesses and there isn't an economic opportuinity in sight unless you join a gang.
Ask the Mexican immigrants, they are an industrious lot. They are people who are accustomed to working and living andevading in an unbelievably corrupt society where 'government' is basically just a familial clan/mob who robs you.
In the poor black welfareneighborhoods, Chicago's West side, the drug dealers don't really get bothered much by the police... in the Hispanic neighborhoods, the merchants and the foodtrucks do. What the hell do you want them to do for work, deal drugs?
Either way someone from the government is giving you shit and trying to shut you down.
Don't dare question the nobility of our Fine Blue Line though. They protect us from the racists.

Posted by: Entropy at January 21, 2012 12:28 AM (Ci0JG)

532 "I will say again, Paul has denounced that material... which is like 20 years old BTW. "

(cough)Bullshit !(cough)

"And to be perfectly honest, the material itself isn't really even racist. I can show you a Robin Williams standup routine from the same era with similar language. "

Well, now there is a glowing recommendation.

Posted by: Moishe Ali O'Malley at January 21, 2012 12:28 AM (YfVqC)

533 Get it straight, Andrew. I keep catching you and yours out because you
and yours keep twisting the facts to fit your argument. Getting your
information about Romney's deferment record from 'DailyPaul' talking
points is unwise. It's like Wikipedia, only more politically biased and
as crazy as your leader.

Speaking of getting it straight, why don't you apologize to Andrew, who as far as I can see has otherwise been perfectly polite to you, for accusing him of hating our country? Despite the fact he's an Afghan war veteran.

Or do you lack honor as well as self-awareness?

Posted by: MlR at January 21, 2012 12:30 AM (vj9lA)

534 "Andrew Jackson was quite a figure. The Jackson Democrats were right. Jackson was a figure, flawed, who was fighting for our liberties and our republic. He was also a genocidal nutjob and a stone cold killer. Literally, that man killed a shitload of people, and I don't mean 'on orders' I mean by hand."

Posted by: Entropy at January 20, 2012 11:56 PM (Ci0JG)

If memory serves, Jackson killed three men in duels--a custom of the time--and several in combat. That doesn't make him a stone killer, which is another way of saying 'murderer'. Typically, we call men who kill other men in combat 'warriors'. That's what warriors do.

Part Native American myself, I won't try to justify or rationalize Jackson's treatment of the Indians. He was very much a man of his times, and it is to his discredit that he didn't rise above those times.

But hey, one of the things the communists did back in the day was do all they could to denigrate and diminish the great men of our history. They did it so that they could weaken our bond by essentially destroying our shared faith in the goodness of our country.

And I don't care if some of you have worn the uniform. That doesn't make you less culpable for buying into a warped, cult-like ideology that attempts to portray America as some kind of cartoon villain on the international stage. Oh, wait, I almost forgot: as a Zionist-controlled cartoon villain on the international stage. Whenever one addresses Ron Paul's belief system, one can't leave out the Jooos.

Posted by: troyriser at January 21, 2012 12:32 AM (YCeSE)

535 Posted by: Entropy at January 21, 2012 12:28 AM (Ci0JG)

I admit that you probably know more about that subject than I do, though I did live in the ghetto near Anacostia, DC, for two years. (Was happy when I moved - let's just say I stood out.) The minimum wage eliminating many of the traditional entrance jobs for youth also probably hasn't helped.

Posted by: MlR at January 21, 2012 12:35 AM (vj9lA)

536 Posted by: troyriser at January 21, 2012 12:32 AM (YCeSE)

Yeah, that answers that question.

No honor, to go with your cartoonish views of your (presumed) opposition.

Posted by: MlR at January 21, 2012 12:37 AM (vj9lA)

537 Speaking of getting it straight, why don't you apologize to Andrew, who as far as I can see has otherwise been perfectly polite to you, for accusing him of hating our country? Despite the fact he's an Afghan war veteran.

Or do you lack honor as well as self-awareness?
Posted by: MlR at January 21, 2012 12:30 AM (vj9lA)

Andrew, by buying into the 'America is evil' shtick promulgated by your kind, doesn't merit an apology. And what, exactly, do you know about honor, anyway? From my point of view, you're no better than the Copperheads or America Firsters. In addition, you and yours are attempting to suborn the GOP when, in fact, you are no more Republican in outlook or viewpoint than President Obama.

So no, no respect from me. None asked for, either. I'm content to loath everything you stand for.

Posted by: troyriser at January 21, 2012 12:38 AM (YCeSE)

538 Okay, seriously guys, for all those paying attention with the score cards.

Contrary to appearances, I'm not really troyriser, slyly playing yin to my yang, foil to my own argument.

I'm just a stud who reads demented minds, before they even think it.

It came with the KKK-Al Qaeda-Stormfront Paulnut collectible decoder ring

Posted by: MlR at January 21, 2012 12:43 AM (vj9lA)

539 No honor, to go with your cartoonish views of your (presumed) opposition.
Posted by: MlR at January 21, 2012 12:37 AM (vj9lA)

Again: what the fuck do you know about honor? And yes, Ron Paul is definitely a cartoony figure. So are his true believers.

As an aside, why are there so few (if any) women at Ron Paul gatherings? Were your females kidnapped by the Illuminati, or what? Are they even now being held captive on FEMA breeding farms funded by the Bildersbergers, or is it you guys just can't get a date?

Posted by: troyriser at January 21, 2012 12:43 AM (YCeSE)

540 We charge half across the damn world to save a people who seemed unwilling to save themselves from a corrupt little despotic evil overclass.
But in our cities right here at home,some of which have yearly death tolls that exceed that of Baghdad during the Iraq war, we do nothing to protect average people looking for work to live off from a new class of bureaucratic lords, who demand a government class, fee, and license if you want to be a taxi driver, serve food, makestone funderal markers,wood coffins, or be an interior designer, or anything else. What if you don't have the money to get the business license, what do you do?
Who take their land from them to give it to their friends, in New London. God knows why - they won't say, in Antelope Valley. Unlike Susan Kelo, those people are poor and they don't have lawyers, they are wierd and kooky (probably a few racists) and some of them look slow, by which I mean retarded, like IQ 75.
They were living on the outskirts of the desert and they had no where to go, and the city harrased and drove them off the land, which holds no real value on the market and leaves them nothing. Because, I think, they did not want those icky ooky kooky ugly tacky hicks fucking up their goddamn pristine desert landscape.

Posted by: Entropy at January 21, 2012 12:44 AM (Ci0JG)

541 Oh I forgot, KKK-Al Qaeda-Stormfront-Ahmadinejad-Oceania-New York Giants-Confederate-Linkin Park-American-Firster*et al* Paulnut collectible decoder ring

Posted by: MlR at January 21, 2012 12:45 AM (vj9lA)

542 As an aside, why are there so few (if any) women at
Ron Paul gatherings? Were your females kidnapped by the Illuminati, or
what? Are they even now being held captive on FEMA breeding farms funded
by the Bildersbergers, or is it you guys just can't get a date?

Posted by: troyriser at January 21, 2012 12:43 AM (YCeSE)
Well, naturally, we Ron Paulians do not reproduce via woman kind. We call for reinforcements from the Gold and Silver-dime plated Starships.

Posted by: MlR at January 21, 2012 12:48 AM (vj9lA)

543 "Okay, seriously guys, for all those paying attention with the score cards.

Contrary to appearances, I'm not really troyriser, slyly playing yin to my yang, foil to my own argument.

I'm just a stud who reads demented minds, before they even think it.

It came with the KKK-Al Qaeda-Stormfront Paulnut collectible decoder ring"
Posted by: MlR at January 21, 2012 12:43 AM (vj9lA)

News, lightweight: I can't be trolled. The only way any of you could cause a fluctuation in my blood pressure (and then only briefly) would be if you showed up on my doorstep IRL.

You've been hanging out online too long with your like-minded pals until your ideas of right and wrong, up and down became muddled and confused. That's why you come across like space aliens struggling to learn our strange ways and customs whenever you attempt to engage anyone outside your convoluted conspiracy cult.

Posted by: troyriser at January 21, 2012 12:50 AM (YCeSE)

544 We charge half across the damn world to save a
people who seemed unwilling to save themselves from a corrupt little
despotic evil overclass.Posted by: Entropy at January 21, 2012 12:44 AM (Ci0JG)

It's a very interesting question as to what happened that so completely upended the traditional conservative balance between domestic and foreign policy, to the point where now the cart (foreign policy) often pulls the horse (domestic policy). I have some long-winded theories. Unfortunately, they've got to wait until another night, because I've got work early tomorrow. Silver dimes aren't cheap, unlike the dollar.

Posted by: MlR at January 21, 2012 12:57 AM (vj9lA)

545 If memory serves, Jackson killed three men in duels--a custom of the time--and several in combat. That doesn't make him a stone killer, which is another way of saying 'murderer'. Typically, we call men who kill other men in combat 'warriors'. That's what warriors do
You're low on numbers. Very low.
And Jackson was a man who had no problems handing out death liberally. He held life cheaply. Many of his ideas quite higher. That's just the way he was. He was the type that challenged, that would duel your ass over anything. And if you threw away your shot, he was not there for symbolism, he would shoot you dead. And that's evidenced in his threats to kill people, to shoot people, to hang senators, as well as in his response to native Americans. Jackson engineered the Trail of Tears.
Toqueville:
In the whole scene there was an air of ruin and destruction, something which betrayed a final and irrevocable adieu; one couldn't watch without feeling one's heart wrung. The Indians were tranquil, but sombre and taciturn. There was one who could speak English and of whom I asked why the Chactas were leaving their country. "To be free," he answered, could never get any other reason out of him. We ... watch the expulsion ... of one of the most celebrated and ancient American peoples.
Warriors. Wariors who beat up on minorities and girl scouts. Tough guys.
You know who else was a warrior? Saddam Hussein.

Posted by: Entropy at January 21, 2012 12:59 AM (Ci0JG)

546 Posted by: troyriser at January 21, 2012 12:50 AM (YCeSE)

Okay, I seriously LOLed at that one.

Just think Mr. Riser, your son could conceivably come under my command. I may turn him into a Paulnut yet.

Oogedy-boogedy!

Posted by: MlR at January 21, 2012 01:01 AM (vj9lA)

547 BTW Entropy, I'm currently reading the book on Cicero you mentioned previously. Thanks for the tip-off.

Posted by: MlR at January 21, 2012 01:03 AM (vj9lA)

548 Night, Entropy. Keep your decoder ring close.

Posted by: MlR at January 21, 2012 01:06 AM (vj9lA)

549 Later, M1R. I haven't checked out the book you mentioned yet, but it is on my list. I still haven't gotten round to making the next Amazon purchase. I forgot my password to my account and I keep procrastinating about getting back in.

Posted by: Entropy at January 21, 2012 01:10 AM (Ci0JG)

550 "Another falsehood. Gingrich, yes. Romney? No. Romney, rich child of privilege that he was, took a religious deferment while on his Mormon mission and then an academic deferment while in college, but submitted to the draft in 1970. He drew a high number and so wasn't required to serve. "
You are partially correct but that's not entirely true. For one he could have submitted to draft before mission but didn't,he left before receiving his number - on purpose. He receiveddeferment for missionary service. After his service though, he effectively colluded with church officials throughhis well-connected familyto extend deferment. He did not receive academic deferments for that long a period. Academic deferment was only good for a semester. Peoplecouldn't just say "hey, I'll go to college" and get defered. The church kept him in a "minister" status after getting back so he could go to school.And note, I say that as an active Mormon myself. I served a two-year mission for the LDS church as well. Romney didn't run to Canada but he clearly evaded the draft for an unfairly extended period of time in my opinion.

Posted by: Andrew at January 21, 2012 01:10 AM (HS3dy)

551 Plus, The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim does not help.

Posted by: Entropy at January 21, 2012 01:11 AM (Ci0JG)

552 Really, troyriser. The extreme passion and fury with which you assert complete bullshit that is not true, it is a thing of wonder.
I have been around for years and years. I'm a known quantity. Not but a few years ago, I actually used to be very popular around here.
M1R, and Andrew too. I know their views on things. We've been around. Been discussing a wide variety of issues.
You don't know shit, and you won't listen. And if you'll warp your head that bad with us,there's no reason to find you credible about Paul.
If we went down the issues, you'd be struggling to find points of disagreement from traditional conservative republican orthodoxies.
I don't know right from wrong though? To put it in terms that you - well, frankly you will not believe, you will call me a liar, a moby.
I believe that abortion in this country is basically infanticide. It's the mass murder of the weakest of people, for the crime of being inconvienent to others.
I do believe that those Iranian nutjobs must at no price be allowed to have a nuclear bomb industry(although we may disagree about what costs less - I'd rather nuke the bastards than occupy them).
I want a flat tax of 15% personal, 15% business, to start with (the state should be way more than the federal, but both together would ideallly be less than 10 or 12 still).
To get there, I know we must end FDR's misguided, illegal, and insolventsocial wellfare programs. But I also know old people have been paying in their whole lives, and it's their money, and they deserve to see it back. My position has always been the same - I don't mind paying the tax, my mother's parents need it, but stop sending me the bullshit "promise of benefits" statement.
I want out. I'll pay the tax but call it tax. Don't you fucking hook my grandchildren into this, in my name.
You know what that means don't you? Yup.
Fucking racist.
I denounce myself.

Posted by: Entropy at January 21, 2012 01:41 AM (Ci0JG)

553
Entropy, you've been doing a fine job sucking my cock, but it's old and gets tired, so give me a rest will ya'? You can go jack off to my BFF Alex Jones in the mean time.
r3V0Lution!

Posted by: RON PAUL! at January 21, 2012 06:54 AM (xyWur)

554
So...it's OK when the T.E.A. Party does it (mostly Republicans) but it's evil when Ron Paul advocatesdo it (mostly Republicans.)

...and you wonder why you - yourselves - call it 'Teh Stupid Party'?

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at January 21, 2012 07:20 AM (E7Z1r)

555
Wow Andrew mopped this thread clean. Nice job.

Posted by: Zeek at January 21, 2012 11:01 AM (5Cwv4)

556 I've spent my life listening to Boomers telling me all the important things they did in the 1960s. How their generation was different and how I'll never get that. Then I tell them how they sold us all out. The once conservative Republican party has not only run up all their credit cards, they've taken more out in the name of their children and run up all of them to the max too. The debt is ever escalating with no hope of ever paying it back. Our debt to GDP ratio has gone to hell in a handbasket. We chide France and predict it's going down the toilet for falling to the rating the US had before them. What saddens me most is mainstream Republicans seem hell bent on this path of destruction and call those who want to restore fiscal conservatism to the party nuts. It isn't the current fiscal conservatives who abandoned the party, the party was sold out by the mainstream party long ago along with the country and conservatives are just trying to pick up the pieces while others are content to drive 100 miles an hour with blinders on screaming about crazy drivers. Food for thought perhaps.

Posted by: gphx at January 22, 2012 04:30 PM (6X59m)

557
Hi, I'm Ace, I love the free market, that's why every time someone advocates a free market in the single most important commodity in any economy, money, I write them off as a an anti-semite.

Posted by: Gabriel M at January 23, 2012 03:56 PM (kQuHP)

558 Where have you people been. Of course it is true. Do you honestly think the Ron Paul supporters have been sitting on their thumbs since 2008? They have be honing this since that time. How do you thik the number 546 delegates come about? You cannot get that just out of VA. Newt and Santorum have no ground game, there delegates were easy pickings. Romney even took a good ride. Some one had to do something because we knew the Republican GOP would blow it in the end and put Obama back into the White House. You will have a brokered convention. See you there. You can thank us later.

Posted by: Steve Camp at January 27, 2012 02:35 PM (Gi0aH)

559 By the way I have never run into a site that has more dirty language than this one. I hope you folks are not the cream of the crop because if you are we are in trouble. Anyone who can not express them selves without having to use this kind of language does not have much to say in the first place.

Posted by: Steve Camp at January 27, 2012 02:39 PM (Gi0aH)






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