Bachmann: I'm A-Goin' to Go Ahead and Push This Lunatic Vaccines=Autism Lie

Precious bodily fluids.

That's not just a throwaway movie line. There is strain of "body paranoia," for lack of a better term, that infects the public from time time; first it was fluoridation, a communist plot to sap our spirits and our manliness with fluorine in the public water; and lately this has morphed into the anti-vax movement.

Where did this theory come from? On the "scientific" side, it came from The Lancet, the leftwing British medical journal that also told you they had determined theup to nearly a million Iraqis died "due to" the war. When you hear that "million dead" claim, that's from the Lancet, and the Lancet still stands behind it.

What they don't stand behind is their previous Great Big Scare article which claimed vaccinations led to autism -- they retracted the 1998 paper, stating that Wakefield and his colleagues had been unethical, as well as "dishonest and irresponsible."

That actually understates things. That's the Lancet looking for an easy way out.

It's worse than that.

"Mr. 11" was one of a tiny, tiny number of parents of children with autism whose kids had been examined by Wakefield et al. His kid, "11," was part of the "proof" of a link between autism and the vaccination.

Yeah here's the thing: When "Mr. 11" checked Wakefield's reportage of his own child's medical history, he caught Wakefield lying. Child 11 had actually developed his first signs of autism before he was vaccinated.

So it's difficult to prove that the vaccination caused autism.

Unless, of course, you simply claim he got his vaccinations earlier than he actually did, as Wakefield did in fact claim. Only Mr. 11, checking up on the report, would have known this and could have called bullshit. (Mr. 11 is an American engineer -- wrong guy to fake the data about.)

And why would Wakefield go to such lengths to prove a vaccine-autism connection?

Why else?

He backed his concerns with medical records, including a Royal Free discharge summary.5 Although the family lived 5000 miles from the hospital, in February 1997 the boy (then aged 5) had been flown to London and admitted for Wakefield’s project, the undisclosed goal of which was to help sue the vaccine’s manufacturers.6

Unknown to Mr 11, Wakefield was working on a lawsuit,7 for which he sought a bowel-brain “syndrome” as its centrepiece. Claiming an undisclosed Ł150 (€180, $230) an hour through a Norfolk solicitor named Richard Barr, he had been confidentially 8 put on the payroll two years before the paper was published, eventually grossing him Ł435 643, plus expenses.9

Curiously, however, Wakefield had already identified such a syndrome before the project which would reputedly discover it. “Children with enteritis/disintegrative disorder [an expression he used for bowel inflammation and regressive autism10] form part of a new syndrome,” he and Barr explained in a confidential grant application to the UK government’s Legal Aid Board11 before any of the children were investigated.12 “Nonetheless the evidence is undeniably in favour of a specific vaccine induced pathology.”

The two men also aimed to show a sudden-onset “temporal association”—strong evidence in product liability. “Dr Wakefield feels that if we can show a clear time link between the vaccination and onset of symptoms,” Barr told the legal board, “we should be able to dispose of the suggestion that it’s simply a chance encounter.”13

So now an anti-vax lunatic buttonholes Michelle Bachmann (or so she claims, at least) and tells her the story of how Gardasil caused her child's autism. At age 12. Late onset autism, I guess. And despite there being absolutely no connection between Gardasil and late onset autism (whatever that is), she broadcasts her new medical findings out to the public.

Well. She did used to style herself "Doctor Bachmann," I guess.

Michelle Bachmann is desperate. She's an ambitious, egotistical woman who started running for President just two short years after she first ran for Congress. In the past two months her support went from 13% and rising to 4% and falling.

So she needs something, doesn't she, and Rush Limbaugh warned her off her planned Social Security demagoguery.

So, instead, this bullshit.

Bonus: Last night I saw linked at Hot Air this claim that Texas' opt-out wouldn't work, for some reason, for Gardasil. It's just some neutral information from a real medical organization. (?)

Let's look at their claims:

1. Opting out of the vaccination is a "bureaucratic nightmare." By this they mean that the parent must write to the department of health to request an opt-out form, and then sign it, and return it.

Is that a nightmare? The anti-vax wackadoos think it is, because their real agenda is make vaccinations rare; they want no-vaccinations to be the easy, default, commonplace choice.

So you can understand how distraught they get when the no-vax loons are required to sign a form.

Meanwhile, as Sarah Palin discovers an "illustration of that there crony capitalism" in Texas, she'll be saddened to learn that it's easier to opt-out of vaccines in Texas than it is in her libertarian paradise of Alaska.

2. Private schools might not honor the opt-out forms. Um, maybe, because they're private and can do as they wish; but why would a private school, which a parent is paying and can yank his kid out of, disregard a parent's desire to not have his kid vaccinated?

This is one of those "Let me postulate someone behaving oddly and then claim that that means the law is bad."

The other problem with this? Private schools set their own immunization policy in the first place. Private schools can demand fewer vaccinations, or more, or none, or whatever. This anti-vax group suggests that Catholic schools could ignore the opt-out, right before noting that Catholic schools' immunizations policies aren't even set by the State of Texas, but rather by the "Texas Catholic Conference Education Department:"

For example, the Dallas Diocese for Catholic Schools policy number 5024 states, “Schools will comply with immunization requirements established by the Texas Catholic Conference Education Department. Conscientious objections/waivers are not accepted in schools of the Diocese.

So what does that have to do with the state of Texas at all? Catholic schools seem to be setting their own policy, for everything, from what vaccinations are required to what can be waived.

So this doesn't even effect private schools in the first place. Yes, they could, for some reason, ignore the state's opt-out; but then, you can also ignore the state's immunization laws in the first place.

3. Let me quote this one:

Doctors Refuse Medical Care
Even though you may be able to get a piece of paper from the state health department affirming your right to refuse state mandated vaccines for your child, just try and find a doctor who will honor it! According to a recent study published in the Archives of Pediatrics and Adolescent Medicine, 39% of pediatricians surveyed said they would throw kids out of practices who are not vaccinated.

Michelle Malkin goes on and on about this, about how doctors were so darn arrogant in telling her about the usefulness of vaccinations, and didn't seem to respect her skepticism, and so on. And I think she said a doctor said he'd drop her kid as a client unless he was vaccinated.

Well, that's the doctors right, isn't it? It's amazing to me how many conservatives believe their own personal liberty includes "freedom from confrontation or people disagreeing with me" and yet other people's freedom barely even includes plain-old freedom.

If a doctor believes that medicine requires a strict vaccination policy, and you disagree, I've got three words: Find another doctor. He does have the liberty to conduct his practice as he sees fit, and no, you shouldn't be able to claim that your imagined "freedom from hostile discussions" can trump his right to practice medicine as he believes is right.

This is the whole point of the anti-vax movement, as I said before: They want vaccinations to be the exception, not the rule, so that they don't have to endure the hectoring of a doctor telling them that diseases are bad. They don't want to feel "weird," so they seek to make their own personal rule (which is in fact fringe) the rule for everyone. That way, they fit in, and no more arguing with doctors!

That's not liberty. That's not freedom. That's trying to use political power to force your beliefs on others.

You are permitted to not vaccinate your kids, if that's what you're into. But you are not permitted to whine your way into making this the majority, default position, simply so you don't have to endure the psychic pain of having a doctor tell you he knows a great deal more about medicine than you do.

4. The last objection is also one pushed by Malkin. See, the only reason Perry made this "mandatory" (with the standard opt-out) is that most insurance policies are written such that they state they will cover the mandatory vaccinations (even if there are opt-outs), but not the elective ones. Essentially the "opt-out" way means your insurance will cover it. If it's opt-in, as furious freedom fighters insist it must be, it's not covered.

And that means a lot of people just don't bother. It was a $360 series of shots a few years ago, so it's not dirt cheap.

Now, this last objection is that we have to protect insurers here. We're not talking about Parental Rights anymore, but Insurer Rights. And see, if their own policies say they'll cover mandatory vaccines, and you add a new mandatory vaccine, that costs insurance companies.

As Malkin says, Insurance Companies, alas, have no opt-out themselves. (Except of course that they are permitted, as always, to re-write their own policies and simply say "Gardasil is not covered.")

And this website notes that if you add one more thing insurance companies cover, obviously that has some (trivial) affect on premium costs, so we all pay for the Gardasil Autism Conspiracy.

Look, this comes down, basically, to fringy anti-vax panic, plus the idea we shouldn't inoculate against STDs. People get weird about this.

But we're not vaccinating against STDs. If this were just HPV, no vaccine would have been developed, let alone put on the list of "mandatory" (with opt-out) list.

HPV is something that half the population has had. Most don't even know they've had it-- you get it, most people don't even know they've gotten it, then it goes away.

It's a fairly trivial "STD," except for one thing: It causes 70% of all cervical cancer.

That's why a vaccine was developed -- not to protect against a minor (and incredibly widespread) STD whose direct symptoms are fairly trivial, but to protect against the deadly cancer it causes late in life.

This is being demagogued as some "Pro-Sex" STD vaccination. But no one would have bothered to make a vaccine for it all -- it's pretty minor, as far as primary effects -- except for that "deadly cervical cancer" part.

It's an anti-cancer vaccine. Period.

And apparently, in some quarters, this is now a riotously controversial initiative.

Posted by: Ace at 12:42 PM



Comments

1
oh good, more of this

Posted by: soothsayer at September 13, 2011 12:44 PM (G/zuv)

2 This isn't going to end well.

Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 12:44 PM (EPcuy)

3
Vaccines are from Satan.

Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 12:44 PM (GXgac)

4 Yeah, Bachmann is dead to me.

Posted by: Y-not at September 13, 2011 12:45 PM (5H6zj)

5 sigh

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 13, 2011 12:45 PM (eOXTH)

6 The CDC recommends the HPV vaccination. But let's take the Lancet's word over the CDC, shall we?

Posted by: mpurinTexas, Evil Conservanatrix, supports Rick Perry, bitch at September 13, 2011 12:45 PM (pY3GI)

7 And then Sarah joined the Perry pile-on on Greta last night.

Both of them: dead to me.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 13, 2011 12:46 PM (UOM48)

8 Sweet, Red Rider.

Posted by: Waterhouse at September 13, 2011 12:46 PM (3p99J)

9 Seriously, what the fuck? Who are her campaign advisors? Who in their right mind is telling Bachmann this is a good idea?

Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 12:46 PM (EPcuy)

10 Ace, your tweets were on fire last night.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 13, 2011 12:46 PM (UOM48)

11 Anyone ask Bachmann if any of her 6 dozen children she has scrounged have had their vaccinations?

Posted by: mpurinTexas, Evil Conservanatrix, supports Rick Perry, bitch at September 13, 2011 12:46 PM (pY3GI)

12 Goodbye, Michelle. You just pushed Limbaugh full-on into Perry's camp.

Posted by: Lou at September 13, 2011 12:46 PM (0F3ej)

13 That woman has weapons-grade stupidity.

Posted by: Vyceroy at September 13, 2011 12:46 PM (mqy6N)

14 Also, crop circles.

Posted by: Michelle.Bachmann at September 13, 2011 12:47 PM (gQLr2)

15 If you disbelieve that vaccinations cause autism then you also probably think the Jews aren't stealing your gold as we speak.

Posted by: Ron Paul!! at September 13, 2011 12:47 PM (1fB+3)

16 Merck should sue the shit out of Bachmann for the bullshit spewing from her mouth.

She has really pissed me off. Republican Jenny McCarthey.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian & Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 12:47 PM (iYbLN)

17 What's surprising about this comment? She's a walking trainwreck and she's slightly above Biden in the gaffe department. This kind of Hail Mary opportunism isn't shocking. It's to be expected from her.


Posted by: lu at September 13, 2011 12:47 PM (pLTLS)

18
The only thing about this that interests me is the behind the scenes stuff.

This tells me that Bachmann and Romney are poorly informed and are being advised by foolish and incompetent people.


Posted by: soothsayer at September 13, 2011 12:47 PM (G/zuv)

19 All the make up I apply to my face sure isn't causing my mental retardation.

Posted by: Michelle Bachmann at September 13, 2011 12:48 PM (usXZy)

20 Our military get some pretty interesting vacs. The anthrax one was the only one my kid complained about.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 13, 2011 12:48 PM (UOM48)

21 Bachmann's political career is over.

In fact, since it's all the rage these days, I would like to see her primaried for her House seat.

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at September 13, 2011 12:48 PM (KxADM)

22 You know who this helps? Jon Hunstman.

Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 12:48 PM (EPcuy)

23
Seriously, what the fuck? Who are her campaign advisors? Who in their right mind is telling Bachmann this is a good idea?

Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 12:46 PM

Why blame her advisors? Give her some credit for teh stupid.

Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 12:48 PM (GXgac)

24 I can't even talk about this it makes me so nuts. I'll just lurk and enjoy along with my boyfriend Andrew Breitbart.

Thanks for the post Ace, awesome as usual.

Posted by: BlackOrchid at September 13, 2011 12:49 PM (SB0V2)

25 Thanks, Ace.

Posted by: Andy at September 13, 2011 12:49 PM (rotMA)

26 no post on Palin saying she got a kick out of stringing along her worshipers while taking cheap shots at all the candidates?

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (VOTE TODAY IN NY-9 & NV-2!!!) at September 13, 2011 12:49 PM (3XDPM)

27 Posted by: soothsayer at September 13, 2011 12:47 PM (G/zuv)

Romney? How so?

Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 12:49 PM (EPcuy)

28
Incidentally, there's no comment yet from her biggest fans, the Powerline boyz.

Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 12:49 PM (GXgac)

29 We need a candidate who has governed, run a business....something. Otherwise we end up with Captain Clusterf*ck Part 2.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 13, 2011 12:49 PM (UOM48)

30 Bachmann/Ancient-Aliens-Big-Hair-Guy 2012.

Posted by: . at September 13, 2011 12:50 PM (gQLr2)

31 This tells me that Bachmann and Romney are poorly informed and are being advised by foolish and incompetent people.

It speaks to the kind of people who would be advisers in their administrations.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian & Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 12:50 PM (iYbLN)

32 I wish I could take credit for this....but I found it on another blog:

I do not like this Uncle Sam, I do not like his health care scam.

I do not like these dirty crooks, or how they lie and cook the books.

I do not like when Congress steals, I do not like their secret deals.

I do not like this speaker Nan ,I do not like this ‘YES, WE CAN’.

I do not like this spending spree— I’m smart, I know that nothing’s free.

I do not like your smug replies, when I complain about your lies.

I do not like this kind of hope. I do not like it. Nope, nope, nope!

Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp barbarian, tea party terrorist and Perry supporter at September 13, 2011 12:50 PM (qjUnn)

33
The CDC recommends the HPV vaccination.


Posted by: mpurinTexas, Evil Conservanatrix, supports Rick Perry, bitch at September 13, 2011 12:45 PM (pY3GI)
Do you always do what the government says?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative)) at September 13, 2011 12:50 PM (LH6ir)

34 ...aaaaand thank you, Rep. Bachmann, I think that will be all for now.

...no, we'll let you know. We do have several other interviews scheduled...

/great, NOW who do I push as Perry's VP pick?

Posted by: DarkLord© sez Obama is a stuttering clusterf--- of a miserable failure
Oh, and F--- Nevada!
at September 13, 2011 12:50 PM (GBXon)

35 If the last three years have taught us anything, it's that electing an inexperienced, untested ideologue as president is a really bad idea.

And no, I don't give a damn that her professed ideology is more or less the same as mine.

Posted by: Brown Line at September 13, 2011 12:50 PM (WGf1R)

36 btw haven't heard from progressoverpeace in days if not weeks. must be hard watching your candidate melt down.

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (VOTE TODAY IN NY-9 & NV-2!!!) at September 13, 2011 12:50 PM (3XDPM)

37 26 no no no no no no no no no no no no

Posted by: lu at September 13, 2011 12:50 PM (pLTLS)

38
Memo to all GOP candidates:

You cannot run your typical 20th century GOP campaign and expect to win.

Get with the times, a-holes. Hire smart people and do your friggin research.

Posted by: soothsayer at September 13, 2011 12:50 PM (G/zuv)

39 one more thing - again, most of my fam are liberals, and VERY anti-vax (it's a very granola thing to be) - saw a post on FB today "Gardasil caused my MS"

so there you go. It causes MS in adult women, apparently.

and it turns you into a newt!

but some people get better.

Posted by: BlackOrchid at September 13, 2011 12:50 PM (SB0V2)

40 The anthrax vaccine sucked. At first it was just like a quick flu shot, but then two minutes later it felt like my arm had been flayed and dipped in acid. And it ached for about a week afterward. And you had to keep getting them over and over as a regime.

The small pox shot on the other hand just looked gross, what with the pus. But otherwise didn't really bother me.

Posted by: nnptcgrad at September 13, 2011 12:51 PM (Opyrm)

41 Bachmans into Truther territory here. Her and Palin both. They should just come out and be truthful and say they are against it for religious reasons which is the truth. Instead they lie and claim to beleive woman on the street interviews.
I wonder how much money she has lost falling for the free money ads from Nigeria.

Posted by: robtr at September 13, 2011 12:52 PM (MtwBb)

42 You realize that the media is going to pile on her and use her an anchor to drag down the Tea Republican parties right? Like Ron Paul she should have figured out that there are bigger things than her ego at sake and backed off before becoming a pawn in the opponents game.

Posted by: Blue Falcon in Boston training for the ONT mudwrestling match at September 13, 2011 12:52 PM (ijjAe)

43 engineers, god bless em, read everything.

Posted by: PR at September 13, 2011 12:52 PM (8a0kZ)

44 Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 12:48 PM (GXgac)

Campaign advisors are supposed to give advice. They are supposed to be honest and helpful. So there are campaign advisors that are supporting Bachmann's line of...attack. It's really weird.

Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 12:52 PM (EPcuy)

45 /great, NOW who do I push as Perry's VP pick?
If Newt could keep his yap shut and be a team player, he'd be an awesome VP.
::: sigh ::::

Posted by: Sean Bannion at September 13, 2011 12:52 PM (sbV1u)

46 Posted by: soothsayer at September 13, 2011 12:50 PM (G/zuv)

Which one will figure it out first?

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative)) at September 13, 2011 12:52 PM (LH6ir)

47 Didn't someone associated with the vaccines = Autism nonsense actually go to jail?
My wife asked me about it recently as it was circulating around some of the forums she hangs about on the interwebs.
I told her the research had found to be falsified as badly as the global warming stuff.

Posted by: Scott J at September 13, 2011 12:53 PM (/bVuS)

48 /great, NOW who do I push as Perry's VP pick?

Daniels?

And there's always Marco.

Posted by: Y-not at September 13, 2011 12:53 PM (5H6zj)

49 She's toast and crap like this really taints the Republican Party

Posted by: nevergiveup at September 13, 2011 12:53 PM (i6RpT)

50
one more thing - again, most of my fam are liberals, and VERY anti-vax
(it's a very granola thing to be) - saw a post on FB today "Gardasil
caused my MS"



so there you go. It causes MS in adult women, apparently.



and it turns you into a newt!



but some people get better.

Posted by: BlackOrchid

What fucking morons. I have MS, so does my sister. Gardisil wasn't even around when we were growing up. It's a multitude of factors which cause MS. What fucking idiots.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian & Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 12:53 PM (iYbLN)

51
and it turns you into a newt!

There's a treatment for that.

Posted by: Dr. Seth Brundle at September 13, 2011 12:53 PM (KxADM)

52 Ace: the vaccine issue aside, I haven't met a politician yetwho wasn't ambitious and egotistical. Some of them are flat out sociopaths.

Posted by: Matt at September 13, 2011 12:54 PM (90w0O)

53
I do feel bad for parents of kids with autism and don't blame their desperate desire to find the cause, but in this case I think they're dead wrong and the science doesn't report it.
It seems to be that there is an increased number of kids with autism, then again it's possible that it went unreported for many years before doctors really knew what it was. This isn't uncommon.
That said, let's not become the anti-vaccine party. We don't need that.
IF you don't want one for your kids, then don't get them. But let's not make this a policy of the Republican party.

Posted by: Ben at September 13, 2011 12:54 PM (wuv1c)

54 What fucking morons. I have MS, so does my sister.
Gardisil wasn't even around when we were growing up. It's a multitude
of factors which cause MS. What fucking idiots.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 12:53 PM (iYbLN)Same with my cousin. And her mother had lupus.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 13, 2011 12:54 PM (UOM48)

55
Why Romney, you ask?

Well, for starters, I heard that Perry isn't losing support among old people. So it makes no sense to keep going after him about Social Security.

Also, you don't pull a page out of the DNC playbook and recite their defense of Social Security as a weapon against your fellow GOP opponents.

Posted by: soothsayer at September 13, 2011 12:54 PM (G/zuv)

56 Barack Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at September 13, 2011 12:55 PM (8y9MW)

57 Thank you for posting this, ace, I was fired up in past threads.

Posted by: Alex #11 at September 13, 2011 12:55 PM (xrI/G)

58 Huge disappointment. I thought she could be the second Sarah Palin, without the baggage. Turns out she's lugging a briefcase full of crazy. Michelle, Huntsmann, Santorum, and Cain all need to pull out of the race. The last two can do so with their heads held high; the first two, not so much.

Posted by: joncelli at September 13, 2011 12:55 PM (RD7QR)

59 I held off on Guardasil until there was a data trail, since my children aren't guinea pigs, but this is absurd. She needs to hide in shame.

Posted by: Lilredhen at September 13, 2011 12:55 PM (Is7UD)

60 Oh and I got my flu shot today, so I guess according to the anti-vaccine people and conspiracy people that I will cease to be my self shortl...............................Obama is dreamy. Why is this blog so mean to our Dear Leader. Pelosi is the most beautiful old woman I've ever seen. Michelle's arms are so toned. I can't wait to join a union. You know I should really start live streaming NPR while I...........................

Posted by: Blue Falcon in Boston training for the ONT mudwrestling match at September 13, 2011 12:55 PM (ijjAe)

61 She's been leading the fight against autism

Posted by: Ben at September 13, 2011 12:55 PM (wuv1c)

62 If you disbelieve that vaccinations cause autism then you also probably think the Jews aren't stealing your gold as we speak.
Let's review the facts.
I have no gold, I've never had gold, I don't even know where gold comes from, but there ain't none around here.
I know a few Jews.
Coincidence? Mayhaps not.

Posted by: Entropy at September 13, 2011 12:55 PM (IsLT6)

63 The woman can really handle a weiner. So there's that. Just sayin.

Posted by: Sub-Tard at September 13, 2011 12:55 PM (0M3AQ)

64 Damn I love that song.

Posted by: tasker at September 13, 2011 12:55 PM (brQV4)

65 Honest to God, we need an anti-stupid vaccine. Mandatory anti-stupid vaccine.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian & Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 12:56 PM (iYbLN)

66
no no no no no no no no no no no no


Posted by: lu

Alvin Greene?

Posted by: soothsayer at September 13, 2011 12:56 PM (G/zuv)

67 Actually the song is about anti-semitism.

Posted by: tasker at September 13, 2011 12:56 PM (brQV4)

68 I think the most corncerning thing for Perry is that he dropped 5 points v. Obama in polling since last week. Mediscare problem with independents?
Of course this was a PPP poll, so grain of salt needed...

Posted by: Jollyroger at September 13, 2011 12:56 PM (NCw5u)

69 Bachmann is the Joe Biden of the Republican party. Our own Gaffemaster General

Posted by: Arms Merchant at September 13, 2011 12:56 PM (jx6di)

70 OT, but kinda fun news. Thinking she had $5 million in the bank, Senator Feinstein says she too was "wiped out" by crooked Rat Treasurer. (link on name to Polutico article)

Posted by: observer at September 13, 2011 12:56 PM (dp4Vm)

71 Perplexing to me why an otherwise intelligent candidate would take this turn be so stupid. Economy dearheart. Bachman you have lost any chance that you might of had. Pretty dumb.

Posted by: Cheri at September 13, 2011 12:57 PM (G+Wff)

72 yeah i'm pretty disappointed in Palin and Bachman.

damn

Posted by: willow at September 13, 2011 12:57 PM (h+qn8)

73 I mean, at least their not as bad as that little mic bastard who keeps barging in drunk and stealing all my cerial.

Posted by: Entropy at September 13, 2011 12:57 PM (IsLT6)

74 Perry's biggest weakness is obviously immigration. This shows you how ineffective the other candidates are that they can't hammer him over that point. Which isn't minuscule by any measure.

Last night they spent more time on some stupid vaccine issue ordered by an EO w/an opt-out clause in which he's already apologized.

Not the brightest bulbs in the pack those other candidates.

Posted by: lu at September 13, 2011 12:58 PM (pLTLS)

75 Limbaugh just said she jumped the shark. She's done.

Posted by: Ian S. at September 13, 2011 12:58 PM (tqwMN)

76 So, instead, this bullshit.

Ok. I get it, I'm dumping her. She has taken a valid concern and made it over the top. There is no way she could at this point build a large enough consensus to get elected.

I still disagree with the HPV mandate even with an opt out. But this is making all of us with reasonable concerns look crazy.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at September 13, 2011 12:58 PM (0q2P7)

77
I think it is clear from what happened in last night's debate that Romney, Santorum, Bachmann and Paul are going all in and have no desire to have a job in a Perry Administration should he win.
However, it seemed to me like Newt and Cain were very polite to Perry. I'm guessing Newt wants to be Sec State and Cain would love a president Perry to endorse him in a Senate or House run in Georgia.

I can understan that Bachmann is pissed at Perry. He essentially destroyed her candidacy. She's now poll in single digits. However this is ridiculous

Posted by: Ben at September 13, 2011 12:58 PM (wuv1c)

78 Posted by: soothsayer at September 13, 2011 12:54 PM (G/zuv)

Ah. I thought he had piled on about the vaccine during the debate or something and I missed it. Good point.

Just this morning I was reading several articles on how well Bachmann did, including one on RedState. She went from "making a comeback" to "campaign disaster".

Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 12:58 PM (EPcuy)

79 How in the world are we going to clean up the messes caused by junk science - global warming, acid rain, rampant malaria, BPA, vaccines, second hand smoke, etc. The politically driven, media enhanced "science" is a disaster. As a start I think we need an industry QA check on journals - profession stats review, full disclosure of supplemental material and data, financial and COI disclosures for reviewers, staff, and submitters, etc.

Posted by: Jean at September 13, 2011 12:58 PM (WkuV6)

80 However this is ridiculous

That's because she's ridiculous.

Posted by: lu at September 13, 2011 12:59 PM (pLTLS)

81 I dunno Ace, the impact on us nationally may well be counterintuitive. If Perry decides to quote the refutation of her specious moonbat exhortation he will kill some "Gop haterz science" cred. Bachmann may just be taking one for the team.


Posted by: sven10077 at September 13, 2011 12:59 PM (AEIYh)

82 Want to stump a Palin fan?

Ask them to give you five positive reasons why Palin is qualified to be President. (Instead of the usual everyone else sucks type of argument.)

Add the warning-that the reasons shouldn't make them sound like-

Cultists of Personality.

Posted by: tasker at September 13, 2011 01:00 PM (brQV4)

83 @74
They can't hit Perryonimmigration because they aren't any further right.
Funny thing for Perry is that these issues are what will hurt him in the primary, but help in the general...

Posted by: Jollyroger at September 13, 2011 01:00 PM (NCw5u)

84 18 The only thing about this that interests me is the behind the scenes stuff.This tells me that Bachmann and Romney are poorly informed and are being advised by foolish and incompetent people.

This is an outlandish smear.

Posted by: Ed Rollins at September 13, 2011 01:00 PM (jx6di)

85 Is it possible for a candidate to poll at zero or negative digits? I gotta admit, part of me is enjoying this...

Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 01:00 PM (EPcuy)

86 first it was fluoridation, a communist plot to sap our spirits and our manliness with fluorine in the public water;
Then what did it?

Posted by: dagny at September 13, 2011 01:01 PM (cdzG0)

87 If Bachmann doesn't lose that vagina, she'll never get Ace's support.

Posted by: Dr Spank at September 13, 2011 01:01 PM (1fB+3)

88 I wonder if this is behind the resignation of Ed Rollins from her campaign. Perhaps he realized that this strategy was a loser and he didn't want to be associated with it.

Posted by: MBH at September 13, 2011 01:01 PM (RwpbN)

89 I like Michelle. Or liked more than I currently do now. I think she went way overboard during the debate, as well as post debate interviews with Greta, etc. Either this is some kind of personal crusade with her, or she is really, really threatened by Perry. Whichever it is, she is making herself out to be somewhat foolish. Watching her last night, she lost several points of support from me. Her tirade after the debate has lost a few more. This is not a major issue facing this country now and she is wasting face time harping on this, imho.

O/T...but the sidebar pics of Detroit are really a sight to behold. What was once, obviously, such beautiful architectural design of so many of those buildings lay in complete and utter ruin. Very sad indeed.

Posted by: Lady in Black at September 13, 2011 01:02 PM (ycuSb)

90 When Teh Stoopid hits, it hurts. This anti-vaccine conspiracy theory BS is almost as offensive as Truther conspiracies, and in some ways a lot more dangerous as dumb$hit parents refuse to get their kids vaccinated and then little pockets of nasty diseases start popping up.

Posted by: Penfold at September 13, 2011 01:02 PM (1PeEC)

91 They can't hit Perryonimmigration because they aren't any further right.

And that's exactly right. None of them are calling for mass deportation from what I understand.

Posted by: lu at September 13, 2011 01:02 PM (pLTLS)

92 Jenny McCarhty on line 2, Michelle...

Posted by: The Robot Devil at September 13, 2011 01:02 PM (DNTer)

93
[I do feel bad for parents of kids with autism and don't blame their desperate desire to find the cause]
My youngest son has autism. If I knew for a factthat thimerosal had indeed caused it (which I don't actually believe), but the additivesaved millions ofchildren worldwide from other serious disease(which it may well have), I would still want thimerosal added to vaccines.
The greater good.

Posted by: Dow Jones at September 13, 2011 01:02 PM (SCcgT)

94 I saw this whole flippin' vaccine thing comin' down the pike back when I was governor of a state for a few weeks. I took one of my advisors aside and said "OMG Lyle! That dad-blasted federal government is trying to sap our precious vital fluids! I sure as shootin' hope no other governor falls for this moose puckey!" Well, no sooner had I said this then along came Rick Perry fresh from rapin' a whole boatload of sweet innocent 12-year-old girls with this nasty, nasty stuff! That's when I knew I had to ride out into the lower 48 like a flippin' Saul Revere to ring those bells and alert the citizens and tell the British that, um, wait, no, er, ah, oh poop I forgot where I was goin' with this....

Posted by: Sarah Palin (TM) at September 13, 2011 01:02 PM (KxADM)

95 This tells me that Bachmann and Romney are poorly informed and are being advised by foolish and incompetent people.

Aren't their chiefs of staffs former workers for some big name liberals or people who LOST advising mcswine? I am fairly sure I read that here once.

Posted by: Deathknyte at September 13, 2011 01:02 PM (xu/zJ)

96 I was mildly annoyed when this Bachmann scrunt first started running. No experience, nothing but vague red-meat applause line bullshit.

After she gave her Sooper Speshul Induhvidyool SOTU rebuttal speech, I was ready to strap her to a rocket and fire her back into Minnesota. Hopefully, someone would have splashed gasoline all over the state and the ensuing explosion would have burned America's Idiot Ranch down to bedrock.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 13, 2011 01:02 PM (l9zgN)

97
Incidentally...
how far down the list is the Huma Poopalooma Virus on your list of concerns?

Me, personally? I'm honey badger about it.

Posted by: soothsayer at September 13, 2011 01:02 PM (G/zuv)

98 Then what did it?
Not enough men going through Basic Training or Boot.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at September 13, 2011 01:02 PM (sbV1u)

99 Lunatic Fringe
I know you're out there
You're in hiding
And you hold your meetings
We can hear you coming
We know what you're after
We're wise to you this time
We won't let you kill the laughter

Lunatic Fringe
In the twilight's last gleaming
This is open season
But you won't get too far
We know you've got to blame someone
For your own confusion
But we're on guard this time
Against your final solution

We can hear you coming
(We can hear you coming)
No you're not going to win this time
We can hear the footsteps
(We can hear the footsteps)
Way out along the walkway
Lunatic Fringe
We know you're out there
But in these new dark ages
There will still be light

An eye for an eye
Well, before you go under
Can you feel the resistance
Can you feel the....thunder...

Posted by: tasker at September 13, 2011 01:02 PM (brQV4)

100 damn sock. NOT Dow Jones.

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at September 13, 2011 01:03 PM (SCcgT)

101 If Bachmann doesn't lose that vagina, she'll never get Ace's support.

What about all the 'ettes that are not fans? What? We must hate ourselves too right?

Posted by: lu at September 13, 2011 01:03 PM (pLTLS)

102 Posted by: Lady in Black at September 13, 2011 01:02 PM (ycuSb)

Jesus, how many points did you give her to begin with?

Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 01:03 PM (EPcuy)

103 Gardisal doesn't cause autism or retardation or anything else.

But, that doesn't change the fact that Perry is a jackbooted fascist thug for mandating it.

Posted by: Oggc at September 13, 2011 01:03 PM (yMeZt)

104 To be fair, I think the Polio Vaccine was a black stain on this country's history. Jonas Salk belongs in the same category as Hitler, Stalin, and Bob Dylan

Posted by: Ben at September 13, 2011 01:03 PM (wuv1c)

105 She's toast and crap like this really taints the Republican Party

You're telling me!

Posted by: Bumby Republican Taint at September 13, 2011 01:04 PM (PU8wf)

106 Palin and Bachmann can both go piss up a rope as far as I'm concerned. It's one thing to say you oppose the state mandating a vaccination. It's quite another to do what Bachmann did last night. Palin admitted she just enjoys toying with people. Just what I want in the leader of the free world.

Posted by: no good deed at September 13, 2011 01:04 PM (mjR67)

107 Andrew Wakefield and other like-minded scum have literal blood on their hands for pushing that vaccines=autism nonsense. When that crap study came out, cases of all three of those viral diseases (measles, mumps, and rubella) surged in parts of the United States and also surged in several other countries. When vaccination levels drop low enough, outright epidemics occur.

How many deaths has Wakefield and anti-vaccine scam-artists like Jenny McCarthy caused with their nonsense? And Michelle Bachmann is joining the likes of this ilk.

She isn't competent enough to run a daycare center, much less the Presidency of the United States when she spouts that deadly crap. Stick a fork in her - she's done. And if she continues, she isn't worthy enough of a US House seat either.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at September 13, 2011 01:04 PM (9hSKh)

108 Well, no sooner had I said this then along came Rick Perry fresh from rapin' a whole boatload of sweet innocent 12-year-old girls with this nasty, nasty stuff.

That is exactly how Michele Bachmann set that up...what a pig.

Posted by: tasker at September 13, 2011 01:05 PM (brQV4)

109
Aren't their chiefs of staffs former workers for some big name liberals
or people who LOST advising mcswine? I am fairly sure I read that here
once.

Probably, some, yeah. From what I gather, there is a small pool of talent (and I use that term loosely) from which the GOP can hire for presidential campaigns.

Which is inexplicable to me. I can pick far more qualified advisors right here in the AoS comment threads.

Posted by: soothsayer at September 13, 2011 01:05 PM (G/zuv)

110 I think it stinks to high heaven thata governor would mandate a vaccine that protects against a disease that is acquired by choices, There is no long term data on the effects of gardacil.

Posted by: madamex at September 13, 2011 01:05 PM (lhXI+)

111 Can we have a post where we get to mock Ron Paul for his meltdown last night?

I think they actually cut his mic before he blurted out that 9/11 was an inside job.

Posted by: mpurinTexas, Evil Conservanatrix, supports Rick Perry, bitch at September 13, 2011 01:05 PM (pY3GI)

112 If Newt could keep his yap shut and be a team player, he'd be an awesome VP.

You're not the only one thinking that. Cap'n Ed is on the same wavelength.

Posted by: DarkLord© sez Obama is a stuttering clusterf--- of a miserable failure
Oh, and F--- Nevada!
at September 13, 2011 01:05 PM (GBXon)

113 106
Palin and Bachmann can both go piss up a rope as far as I'm concerned.
It's one thing to say you oppose the state mandating a vaccination.
It's quite another to do what Bachmann did last night. Palin admitted
she just enjoys toying with people. Just what I want in the leader of
the free world.

I agree, we need a leader. Step up Rick

Posted by: The Robot Devil at September 13, 2011 01:05 PM (DNTer)

114 for the record :
I am pro-vagina

Posted by: garrett at September 13, 2011 01:05 PM (PU8wf)

115 Someare just determinedto screw this up. We have the worst president in American History dragging us down into a morass and it should be a slam dunk to wipe him out.
But the R's would rather show their crazy while simultaneously destroying our best candidates. If this wasn't so critical to the future generations of my family, I might find it amusing. Instead it is seriously pissing me off.
The SCFOAMF is right there for the picking. Ready to be toppled. Just incredible.

Posted by: Sgt. Fury at September 13, 2011 01:06 PM (sX+cx)

116 I'll do what my Doctor suggests, not any politician. Thanks.

Posted by: ronno at September 13, 2011 01:06 PM (nQR0p)

117 I've had it with both Bachmann and Romney. Both are weasels. Bachmann may be dumb as a stump to boot. She certainly lacks relevant executive experience. She seems to have problems with the concept of federal vs. state constitutionality. Heck she lacks political experience. Romney attacking Perry for something Romney in the past has said disqualifies this ass from getting my vote. He thought he was entitled to the nomination and now is a whiny tittybaby 'cause not everyone sees it that way. I wouldn't trust him to walk my dog these days.

Posted by: laddy at September 13, 2011 01:06 PM (49mGu)

118 This kind of goes back to the "Perry Called Us Racist" thread.

Perry's line (while cynical and wrong-headed, probably even *very* cynical and wrong-headed) is one that will play well in the General. Seriously, even if he doubled down on that {Please don't Rick} are you saying you'd rather stay home in Nov. 2012 than vote for Rick Perry if he's the nominee? On the other hand, it helps close off a line of attack that the Democrats are sure to use, which will help with Moderates (we hate 'em, but we need 'em)

Romney's attack on Perry actually opens up a line of attack the Democrats are sure to use- not good politics, even if it wasn't already cynical and wrong headed.

And this from Bachman is just bizarre. As mentioned, she's not just calling Rick Perry wrong on this, but the whole CDC- again, not good politically, over and above being cynical and wrong.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at September 13, 2011 01:06 PM (8y9MW)

119 She isn't competent enough to run a daycare
center, much less the Presidency of the United States when she spouts
that deadly crap. Stick a fork in her - she's done. And if she
continues, she isn't worthy enough of a US House seat either.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at September 13, 2011 01:04 PM (9hSKh)

But.....eleventy-billion foster kids!!!111!!!!!!

Posted by: Michelle Bachmann at September 13, 2011 01:06 PM (UOM48)

120 PA fed. district court judge (appointed by W) chucks Obamacommiecarebc of the unconstitutional mandate.

Meh. District court judge. But a win is a win is a win is a win. IOW - I'll take it.

Posted by: lu at September 13, 2011 01:06 PM (pLTLS)

121 O/T: Today, September 13, U.S. Senator Marco Rubio will be delivering a
major foreign policy speech at the Jesse Helms Center in Wingate, North
Carolina entitled “America’s Role in the World”.
This will be the third and last of a series of three major speeches
by Senator Rubio outlining his vision of America. The first was his
maiden Senate floor speech in June, and the second was last month’s
speech at Ronald Reagan Presidential Library on “The Role of Government
in America”.

5 pm Eastern.

Rubio sure does seem to be setting himself for the VP slot.

Posted by: Y-not at September 13, 2011 01:06 PM (5H6zj)

122 Which is inexplicable to me. I can pick far more qualified advisors right here in the AoS comment threads.
Posted by: soothsayer at September 13, 2011 01:05 PM (G/zuv)

You could do worse in my opinion.

Posted by: Deathknyte at September 13, 2011 01:06 PM (xu/zJ)

123 Bachmann may have jumped the shark but we're talking about it rather than Rick's awesome Texas jobs record.

Bachmann is never going to be president but if Perry can't get the narrative focused on his strengths instead of crazy shit like this, he won't be either.

Two debates in a row. When is he finally going to bring his A game? Does he have an A game?



Posted by: trumpetdaddy at September 13, 2011 01:06 PM (dcoFe)

124 PISS UP A ROPE

Posted by: WEEN at September 13, 2011 01:06 PM (PU8wf)

125 Hmmm. Ed Rollins' backing off from her campaign makes more sense now.

Posted by: Kim Priestap at September 13, 2011 01:06 PM (qUn6X)

126 79, this is one of those things I don't like to think about. The pollution of science with politics IMO threatens to send us back to the era of witch doctors.

Posted by: Scott J at September 13, 2011 01:06 PM (/bVuS)

127 You would might be surprised at just how much scientific wisdom you can acquire by getting regular dorkings from Hugh Hefner.

Posted by: Jenny McCarthy, Ph.D. at September 13, 2011 01:07 PM (QKKT0)

128 #103 If you believe so, and it might be a little over the top to call him a jack-booted thug but your concern is valid, then you should be even more incensed at Bachmann because she just turned a valid issue into a laughing stock.

Posted by: Alex #11 at September 13, 2011 01:07 PM (xrI/G)

129 Did RomneyCare have an opt-out clause? Just askin. I know yankees love them some paternal dictatorships and call it modernity or progressivism, but merely wanted to know if Mitts allowed for individual dissent? BTW, whatever happened to the yankees love of Thereau and ponds "and stuff?"

Posted by: Sub-Tard at September 13, 2011 01:07 PM (0M3AQ)

130 We all knew The Crazy was going to come out of Michele sooner or later. It was inevitable.

Posted by: rockmom at September 13, 2011 01:07 PM (lSyyU)

131 88
I wonder if this is behind the resignation of Ed Rollins from her
campaign. Perhaps he realized that this strategy was a loser and he
didn't want to be associated with it.

I don't think he's gone -- press release said he just stepped back to an advisory role. Great advice, huh?

Posted by: Arms Merchant at September 13, 2011 01:07 PM (jx6di)

132 Michelle Bachman:

NONE and DONE

Posted by: Max Power at September 13, 2011 01:07 PM (+wxCD)

133
I think it stinks to high heaven thata governor would mandate a vaccine
that protects against a disease that is acquired by choices, There is
no long term data on the effects of gardacil.




1) Not required.
2) I got HPV from my first husband who didn't realize he was in a monogamous relationship. Not my choice.
3) The CDC recommends the HPV vaccination after years of research and study.

Posted by: mpurinTexas, Evil Conservanatrix, supports Rick Perry, bitch at September 13, 2011 01:07 PM (pY3GI)

134 She did used to style herself "Doctor Bachmann," I guess.
- Doctor Ace

Posted by: cherry pi, terrorist hostage taking SOB at September 13, 2011 01:07 PM (OhYCU)

135
So, has anyone got around to asking Bachmann if she vaccinated her brood of foster children?

If so, why. If not, why not?

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at September 13, 2011 01:07 PM (EeYDk)

136 Well, to hell with this heifer, too, then. Jeez...so much for "strong, sensible women of the Republican Party".

I guess if they get desperate enough for attention, Bachmann and Palin can do Playboy spreads. (No, I really wouldn't be surprised after this from Bachmann and the past several months of needy nonsense from Palin.)

Posted by: davidinvirginia at September 13, 2011 01:07 PM (ED4oz)

137 Michelle Bachmann is desperate. She's an ambitious, egotistical woman who started running for President just two short years after she first ran for Congress. In the past two months her support went from 13% and rising to 4% and falling.
This.
She almost sounds like Dear Leader in her lack of executive experience when I read that. I also read somewhere that she is very difficult to work with andcan't keep staff (not sure if that is true). She is a good, conservative congresswoman and needs to stay there. I agree with Ben above, Newt and Cain would be excellent choices in the Perry administration.
Bachman has become the shrill person in the corner. She looked haggard to me last night, false eyelashes and artful makeup still did not play down that haggard, have-not-been eating-or-sleeping look.
Any polls yet? What the masses need to realize is no one but us are paying attention, really. It won't get tight until near the primary, and then it still won't mean much until November 2012. We have a long year of slugging ahead of us.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky at September 13, 2011 01:07 PM (baL2B)

138 Yeah Bachmann blew it by latching onto the vaccine is bad line when she should have emphasized the EO and the head lobbyist for the drug was Perry's finer chief of staff.

By the way if you believe Perry, he is on the opposite side of the body paranoia as he thought HPV was such a threat that he had to take extraordinary measures.

Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney at September 13, 2011 01:08 PM (PCEZn)

139 @126: That's easy: stop funding science with tax money. If something is worth researching and can eventually lead to profit, the money will find it.

Posted by: Ian S. at September 13, 2011 01:08 PM (tqwMN)

140 Although often you can't advise someone out of stupid.

Posted by: Arms Merchant at September 13, 2011 01:08 PM (jx6di)

141 PA fed. district court judge (appointed by W) chucks Obamacommiecarebc of the unconstitutional mandate.

Meh. District court judge. But a win is a win is a win is a win. IOW - I'll take it.
Posted by: lu at September 13, 2011 01:06 PM (pLTLS)

Which is why it is just absurd that this is not being fast tracked directly to the Supreme Court.

Posted by: nevergiveup at September 13, 2011 01:08 PM (i6RpT)

142 O/T: Perhaps for another thread, PPP has Perry down 11 points versus Obama after being down by six three weeks ago. I thought the "ponzi" comment didn't hurt him? Or is it just PPP and we can ignore this? I'm not good at analyzing polls...

Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 01:08 PM (EPcuy)

143 I think I'm going to have to flex my absolute moral authority on this issue and give a solid "Michelle Bachmann can go fuck herself in a cactus patch" on this one.




Posted by: sifty at September 13, 2011 01:08 PM (4CSeG)

144
Posted by: Michelle Bachmann at September 13, 2011 01:06 PM (UOM4
Good point, Mrs. D'oh - has Michelle Bachmann vaccinated her children? If she's going to throw her lot with the likes of Wakefield et al, she'd better renounce the vaccinations of her kids. Else, she's killing them!

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at September 13, 2011 01:08 PM (9hSKh)

145 We all knew The Crazy was going to come out of Michele sooner or later. It was inevitable.

There's that.

Posted by: cherry pi, terrorist hostage taking SOB at September 13, 2011 01:08 PM (OhYCU)

146
I think it stinks to high heaven thata governor would mandate a vaccine that protects against a disease that is acquired by choices, There is no long term data on the effects of gardacil.

Is sex the only way you can get HPV? I was under the impression there are many ways to get STDS.

Posted by: Ben at September 13, 2011 01:09 PM (wuv1c)

147 What fucking morons. I have MS, so does my sister. Gardisil wasn't even around when we were growing up. It's a multitude of factors which cause MS. What fucking idiots.
I agree completely. But it's worth pointing out, since you've got the view angle all lined up, that the same thing goes for cancer. HPV does not cause cancer, there are a multitude of factors which will eventually result in it in anything that lives long enough.
Most likely, both you and your sister had HPV when you were growing up and neither of you got cervical cancer.
Get the vaccine? Sure go for it. My daughter? I think so, probably, yes.
But "trying to end cancer"? That's purely emotional nonsense. There's no unusual public risk here. Can't just wave the bloody shirt of "we're trying to fight cancer!" to push whatever nonsense some study 'causes' because it has some obscure minute correlation. Everything causes cancer.
It's a good demonstration why the patient, their family and their doctors should be making the decisions on health care treatments, not government.
Not Obama, certainly not Michelle Bachmann, and not Rick Perry either. No one. Unless Ron Paul is your gynecologist.

Posted by: Entropy at September 13, 2011 01:09 PM (IsLT6)

148 More Perry apologetics. What he needs is folks who aren't making excuses for him, so he ups his game.
Not long silly tirades about hasbeen Bachmann.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at September 13, 2011 01:09 PM (epBek)

149 And Ace found an excellent article as to the advent of the term-

crony capitalism.

That shat came from the DNC and was used to describe what Palin did when she hired a friend of hers from grade school to sit on some advisory board.

Let's get down to brass tacks....

Since when in the hell should a *Republican* be using the term *Capitalism* as a smear word to sneer?

The only people that hear the word capitalism and get an immediate negative connotation are members of the Lunatic Leftist Fringe of the DNC.

Posted by: tasker at September 13, 2011 01:09 PM (brQV4)

150 for the record :
I am pro-vagina
Posted by: garrett
Just keep your hands off me, then, buster...

Posted by: Tits at September 13, 2011 01:09 PM (DNTer)

151 Someone should ask Katy Beth, the TX ER doc from last night, how many cases of pertussis she has seen recently. I just love hearing about outbreaks of whooping cough. It's preventable, but OMG, noted scientist Jenny McCarthy said it's true that vaccinations cause autism.

Posted by: no good deed at September 13, 2011 01:09 PM (mjR67)

152 Campaign advisors are supposed to give advice. They
are supposed to be honest and helpful. So there are campaign advisors
that are supporting Bachmann's line of...attack. It's really weird.

Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 12:52 PM

I'm guessing she exploded this one on them without any warning, and they're banging their heads on their desks. This one is too crazy to be agreed on by a committee.

Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 01:09 PM (GXgac)

153 The vaccination-autism argument is the province of loony suburban moms who get their science from Internet chat boards. That Bachmann is willing to use it is not just a sign of desperation, it's a sign that the game is over, and she's beginning the transition from marginally plausible candidate to representative of a loony fringe going forward. She'll be able to still raise big-time money from that fringe online, and she'll have her PAC and stay in the limelight for awhile, but she'll be more and more like a Ron Paul than a real player in American politics.

Posted by: The Regular Guy at September 13, 2011 01:09 PM (qHCyt)

154 Happy Birthday Elvis!

Posted by: grease monkey at September 13, 2011 01:09 PM (VSWPU)

155
Some shit I just can't suss out. For instance, Christine O'Donnell raised a ton of cash in a few days. She had nationwide support. All she had to do was not fuck it up.

So the first thing she did was hire a complete idiot PR firm and they cut the "I am not a witch" ad.

There is no way those people who created that ad weren't Coons supporters.

Posted by: soothsayer at September 13, 2011 01:10 PM (G/zuv)

156
Is sex the only way you can get HPV? I was under the impression there are many ways to get STDS.

Sit down, let's talk...

Posted by: Toilet Seat at September 13, 2011 01:10 PM (DNTer)

157 RICK PERRY and the Seven Dwarves, indeed. It's time for we Republicans to acknowledge that we have a two-candidate primary this year, and it's going to be Perry and Romney. All of the other candidates would be lucky to be selected as VEEP, but I'm not sure I'd trust any of them (Herman Cain excepted) with even that much power.

Posted by: Brian L. at September 13, 2011 01:11 PM (PWWdd)

158 142
When it's coming from Ras or maaaaaybe Gallup then feel free to shit yourself. Until then, meh.

Posted by: lu at September 13, 2011 01:11 PM (pLTLS)

159 154
Happy Birthday Elvis!

Umm, little soon there, man

Posted by: Zombie Elvis at September 13, 2011 01:12 PM (DNTer)

160 Bachmann's campaign reminds me of the movie "The Blue Max". George Peppard was doing so well. Shooting down enemy planes right and left, taking on the Red Barron, screwing the general's wife (Ursula Andress - humma), flies the newest German super fighter that he uses to dig an impromptu pit in the middle of a German aerodrome.

The end.

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at September 13, 2011 01:12 PM (jx2j9)

161
Bachmans into Truther territory here. Her and Palin both.

Palin did not endorse the Devil Vaccine line, which was delivered after the debate, not during. She objected to Perry's cronyism.

What's with all the conflating of Palin and Bachmann on this fail?

Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 01:12 PM (GXgac)

162 Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 01:09 PM (GXgac)

Mass exodus in 3...2...

Maybe her and Palin are working together in some kind of conspiracy? Bachmann gives Palin an opening...?

Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 01:12 PM (EPcuy)

163 I'm a doctor too and I call bullshit.

Posted by: Dr. Evil at September 13, 2011 01:13 PM (QKKT0)

164 It protects against a particular virus, HPV, hasonly been approved since '08', and they were going to give it to all young girls. The viurs is acquired through sex.

Posted by: madamex at September 13, 2011 01:14 PM (lhXI+)

165 Perhaps for another thread, PPP has Perry down 11 points versus Obama after being down by six three weeks ago. I thought the "ponzi" comment didn't hurt him? Or is it just PPP and we can ignore this? I'm not good at analyzing polls...
Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 01:08 PM (EPcuy)

Jeebus they used 665 registered voters.

Didn't even bother to try to get "likely" voters.

Posted by: tasker at September 13, 2011 01:14 PM (brQV4)

166 PPP is a great polling service...w/ a week to go until the election. They always exagerrate the Dems' numbers and then suddenly get close to the real results. if PPP stopped working for Dems they could give Ras a run for it's money as the most accurate
btw Ras has Romney +3 on Obama

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Romneybot, The New Stupid) at September 13, 2011 01:14 PM (yAor6)

167 Let me go try to find the margin of error on that, there.


oy.

Posted by: tasker at September 13, 2011 01:14 PM (brQV4)

168 It's all adding up - one thing after another. I can't support her anymore, either - she doesn't seem reliable, and you almost hold your breath waiting for what she'll say next.

Good thing for the long campaign season - these people weed themselves out given enough time.

It will be of great interest to me who she endorses. I'm hoping she doesn't endorse Romney; if she does, then I KNOW what's up, because Romney is anything *but* Conservative. She'd be better off to not say anything than to endorse Romney.

Posted by: blindside at September 13, 2011 01:14 PM (3Uns6)

169 160
Bachmann's campaign reminds me of the movie "The Blue Max". George
Peppard was doing so well. Shooting down enemy planes right and left,
taking on the Red Barron, screwing the general's wife (Ursula Andress -
humma), flies the newest German super fighter that he uses to dig an
impromptu pit in the middle of a German aerodrome.

I thought it was he claimed a kill that wasn't his? The General wanted to avoid a scandal so let him fly an unsafe plan...

Posted by: The Robot Devil at September 13, 2011 01:14 PM (DNTer)

170 I thought there was a solid connection between HPV and cervical cancer? Is that not such a solid connnection now?

Posted by: Penfold at September 13, 2011 01:14 PM (1PeEC)

171 Wow. This debate started COD1,000,000

I hope we all live through it. Consider this... Even Bachmann is light years ahead of Obama.

Posted by: cherry pi, terrorist hostage taking SOB at September 13, 2011 01:14 PM (OhYCU)

172 Is sex the only way you can get HPV?
No... everyone has had HPV. And always have had it. There are many viruses in nature that are not harmful. Some of the newest research advances against cancer have been in using viruses that attack it.And some that are even symbiotic,and beneficial for us humans to host.HPV isn't one of those viruses, but what did it do to you when you got it?
Yes you did.
...
Yes you did.
I was under the impression there are many ways to get STDS.
Sexually Transmitted Diseases? No, not usually that many ways.

Posted by: Entropy at September 13, 2011 01:15 PM (IsLT6)

173
Perplexing to me why an otherwise intelligent candidate would take this turn be so stupid.

She's beyond religious -- she's superstitious.

Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 01:15 PM (GXgac)

174 Mass exodus in 3...2...



Maybe her and Palin are working together in some kind of conspiracy? Bachmann gives Palin an opening...?

If Palin is assuming support after her antics last night, she might want to re-assess things.
Or just STFU and call it good.

Full disclosure, I supported Palin, but stopped shy of joining the Palinistas.

Posted by: jwb7605 at September 13, 2011 01:15 PM (+KHIt)

175 The viurs is acquired through sex.
lie you can get it orally, virgins can get it

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Romneybot, The New Stupid) at September 13, 2011 01:15 PM (yAor6)

176 Yep Bachmann is done. For me, she's always had a 'cringe factor'.. when she's talking I always hold my breath, hoping she won't say something totally stupid. "Yay everyone cheer for Elvis' birthday!!" (on day he died), or her deepthroating a corndog. Anybody could have seen that coming. I think any Woman is self conscious about such things.. but not Michelle.. She's a little off.. Reckless

This new Gardisil thing about it causing mental retardation is pure Jenny Mccarthy nuttery. Bachmann is done. Goodbye. You are crazy.

anyway, Bachmann is done. We could all see this coming yesterday, and warned her in the thread about Limbaughs thoughts on her. You had the chance to avoid this Michelle, but you're not that smart. Sorry.

Have you had your own kids vaccinated Michelle? If not, you are a crazy fucking person, putting other people at risk at dying from near extinct diseases. People like you are responsible for the return of measles and other outrages. Its called heard immunity.

Posted by: Billy Barty at September 13, 2011 01:15 PM (LqEzN)

177 152
I'm guessing she exploded this one on them
without any warning, and they're banging their heads on their desks.
This one is too crazy to be agreed on by a committee.

"As planned, she purposefully stayed back from him on Social Security,
instead choosing to go for the jugular on HPV vaccinations. The strategy
went as planned, and right after the debate, the campaign sent out
fundraising pitches reiterating her position on this issue."

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 13, 2011 01:15 PM (o2lIv)

178
Ask yourself this. Which plays better politically?

I hate cancer and wanted to do everything to help end cervical cancer, but I erred and the legislature corrected me. I respect their decision and the will of the people.

or.

Vaccines make you retarded.

Posted by: Ben at September 13, 2011 01:16 PM (wuv1c)

179
The other cwayze Michele, Malkin this time, chimes in today on the critical cooter shots issue:

I am not an Jenny McCarthy-esque loon for taking the time to assess the massive shot schedule deciding what’s right for my kids and when.It’s not “freaking out” to highlight parental sovereignty issues.


Then she had to run inside because the black helicopters were hovering outside her house spraying their invisible chemtrails....

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at September 13, 2011 01:16 PM (EeYDk)

180 Sacred honor requires me to tell you that Michelle isn't opposed to "injections", if you know what I mean. Just, you know, vaccines.

Posted by: Will Folks-worthy at September 13, 2011 01:16 PM (rplL3)

181 Maybe her and Palin are working together

Maybe Martians will land tonight.

Posted by: cherry pi, terrorist hostage taking SOB at September 13, 2011 01:16 PM (OhYCU)

182 163
I'm a doctor too and I call bullshit.


Posted by: Dr. Evil

Really? How many years of evil Medical School do you have?

Posted by: The Robot Devil at September 13, 2011 01:16 PM (DNTer)

183 Those who keep comparing HPV to Polio, you are comparing apples to oranges. Polio is highly infectious. Simply having the disease places the public around you at risk.

Is HPV vaccine a good idea? It's probably a great idea. That doesn't mean that the government should with or without opt-out mandate it.

We don't make people get permission from government to conduct their private affairs. Once you accept the argument that the government may impose the "great idea" upon the population by way of mandate and opt-out, you invite a larger intrusion of government into your lives. Because their are A LOT of GREAT IDEAS out there that we should ALL do, and do to or for our kids. This line of thinking is akin to believing a little intellectual elite in a far-distant capitol can plan our lives for us better than we can plan them ourselves.

So no matter how beneficial this vaccine may be and probably is. Their isn't a public safety mandate due to it's highly infectious nature of the disease that it prevents, that places this vaccination under the purview of government. And therefore, it is, quite literally, none of their business.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at September 13, 2011 01:17 PM (0q2P7)

184 When you hear that "million dead" claim, that's from the Lancet, and the Lancet still stands behind it.

/pedant
While they may have not formally retracted the previous 'study,' they did print another one:

"The corrupt Lancet journal this week announced that 108,624 Iraqis were killed during the Iraq War not 655,000 as they previously reported. "
/pedant

Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 13, 2011 01:17 PM (s1vtf)

185 Posted by: The Robot Devil at September 13, 2011 01:14 PM (DNTer)

Details. Ursula Andress! Stay focused for cripes sakes.

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at September 13, 2011 01:17 PM (jx2j9)

186 @Ben

Is this a trick question?

Posted by: Penfold at September 13, 2011 01:18 PM (1PeEC)

187 I thought there was a solid connection between HPV and cervical cancer? Is that not such a solid connnection now?
I'm sure it's at least as solid as the connection between cancer and Everything.
Cancer makes Kevin Bacon look like a hunchbacked hermit.

Posted by: Entropy at September 13, 2011 01:18 PM (IsLT6)

188 "Perry and the 7 dwarves?" What?

If he's so bleeding awesome why are we talking about all this extraneous crap and not what he wants us to be talking about. I've yet to get an answer to that obvious question.

People complain about Palin saying she enjoys hearing her words being picked up by the other campaigns. Well. That is what is happening. By even talking about her you're doing it too.

There were 8 dwarves on that stage. This is all still pre-season football.

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at September 13, 2011 01:18 PM (dcoFe)

189 And what's more, you killed your chances in 2020, you dumb shit.

Posted by: Fuck you at September 13, 2011 01:18 PM (GshG1)

190 What Ben said at 53, from a dad with 2 kids on the autism spectrum.

Also, someone needs to hit Bachmann with a cluebat for using the Dem strategy of telling the heartstring-tugging story of how Sally Sue from Clearwater will be eating cat food if we don't Pass The Bill and keep her away from that evil Rick Perry and his needle.

Conservatives don't make decisions with our hearts, we make them with our heads. Or at least we used to.

Posted by: Andy at September 13, 2011 01:18 PM (5Rurq)

191 Posted by: jwb7605 at September 13, 2011 01:15 PM (+KHIt)

I'm watching the clip of her on Greta right now. God, can you imagine hearing that voice from behind the Presidential podium? Awful.

Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 01:18 PM (EPcuy)

192 ...and the ensuing explosion would have burned America's Idiot Ranch down to bedrock.

Now that's a turn of phrase. But if Minnesota is America's Idiot Ranch, what is Clownifornia? We make Minnesota look like a Rhodes Scholar.

Posted by: George Orwell what knows Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure at September 13, 2011 01:18 PM (LyF0H)

193 114
for the record :
I am pro-vagina
Posted by: garrett at September 13, 2011 01:05 PM (PU8wf)
Horseradish or barbeque?

Posted by: dagny at September 13, 2011 01:18 PM (cdzG0)

194 Bachman has lost my vote. We must slaughterrrrrrrrrrrrrr all the children like swinessssssssssssssssssss Mein Furher !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh...Oh...Oh Sorry now where was I ?????

Posted by: Dr. Strangelove, MD at September 13, 2011 01:18 PM (48wze)

195 Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at September 13, 2011 01:16 PM (EeYDk)
maybe Michelle can also expound on how Japanesse-Americans deserved those camps FDR forced them into...

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Romneybot, The New Stupid) at September 13, 2011 01:18 PM (yAor6)

196 I am not an Jenny McCarthy-esque loon
for taking the time to assess the massive shot schedule deciding
what’s right for my kids and when.

I don't object to this in broad principle, but this seems way overblown at this point. You could opt out of the damn shot for God's sake.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at September 13, 2011 01:18 PM (FkKjr)

197 As an MD, this anti-vaccine crap really pisses me off. It is worse than the 9/11 trutherism because it has actually killed people. I don't workin pediatricsnow, but I only saw 1case of measles when I was in med school - in a kid freshly arrived from a refugee camp from Somalia. Now, we're starting to see outbreaks of diseases in the developed world that were largely eradicated when vaccination was more universal.
Socially, I am somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan, but I don't have any problems giving my daughter Gardasil when she reaches that age - because I know that no matter how much I will try to preach to her about morality and watching after herself, I remember how teenage hormones bring on teh stoopid.
For Bachmann to hitch her wagon to this, yeah she's dead to me - I don't even want her in Congress anymore.

Posted by: MM at September 13, 2011 01:19 PM (ZMhO7)

198 Why Does it Hurt When I Pee?

Posted by: ZAPPA : titties and beer at September 13, 2011 01:19 PM (PU8wf)

199 You would might be surprised at just how much scientific wisdom you can acquire by getting regular dorkings from Hugh Hefner.
Talk about a HPV incubator....

Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian & Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 01:19 PM (iYbLN)

200 PPP has this blurb in the pdf-

The president’s more solid standing in the Perry and Romney horseraces comes from consolidating his party support. He was losing 13% of Democrats to each candidate in August, but only 11% to Romney and 9% to Perry now.

The poll has a margin of error of +/-3.8%.

It was conducted September 8th through September 11th.

I would suspect Obama got the last word in via his joint session speech and some rallying around the C in C effect during and on September 11th.

Posted by: tasker at September 13, 2011 01:19 PM (brQV4)

201 20 Our military get some pretty interesting vacs. The anthrax one was the only one my kid complained about.Amen to that. The anthrax vaccine was terrible. I started the cycle in '99.
Let's take this poorly-tested vaccine, inject thousands of troops with it, and see what happens. Wow, you've got lumps in your shoulders at the injection sites that won't go away? Huh, how about that.
I'm forgiving when it comes to people that are suspiciousof vaccines. I contractedviral meningoencephalitis just over a year ago. I started showing symptoms a few years earlier when the USNR forced me to get a second flu vaccine when I had already received one at my real job.

Posted by: Grim at September 13, 2011 01:20 PM (gyNYk)

202 I hope someone has Palin on tonight for her thoughts on Bachmann's self-implosion.

Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 01:20 PM (EPcuy)

203 Michelle Malkin must be Bachmann's BFF/campaign adviser...the Divine Miss M is once again screeching and stamping her foot about Eeeeevil Rick Perry and his Gardasil Attack on Humanity.

Maybe it's just women named Michelle who can't help but run shrilly off at the mouth about stuff sane people assign less importance to.

Oh, and Sarah.

We're getting distracted from the Main Enemy (as the Soviets used to say), that being the stuttering clusterf*** of a miserable failure.

Posted by: MrScribbler at September 13, 2011 01:20 PM (YjjrR)

204 I have 23 foster children!!

Posted by: MICHELLE "ONE! TERM! PRESIDENT!" BACHMANN at September 13, 2011 01:20 PM (Mo+zF)

205 Horseradish or barbeque?

Sliced Tomato, Salt, Pepper and Gardasil

Posted by: garrett at September 13, 2011 01:20 PM (PU8wf)

206 Details. Ursula Andress! Stay focused for cripes sakes.

Excuse me, I'll be back. Need to clear Ursula from my head...

http://tinyurl.com/6jcu2nf

Posted by: The Robot Devil at September 13, 2011 01:21 PM (DNTer)

207 Palin admitted she just enjoys toying with people. Just what I want in the leader of the free world.
This women has really disappointed me. I thought that she was great working on the sidelines and making leftist heads explode. But apparently she has fallen victim to her own hype via the TP and is going to be her own worst enemy exciting the left along the way.

Posted by: Cheri at September 13, 2011 01:21 PM (G+Wff)

208 I got vaccinated and my house went into foreclosure. Coincidence? Hmm.

Posted by: al-Cicero, Tea Party Jihadist at September 13, 2011 01:21 PM (QKKT0)

209 ...on Marble Rye.

Posted by: garrett at September 13, 2011 01:21 PM (PU8wf)

210 I started showing symptoms a few years earlier when the USNR forced me to get a second flu vaccine when I had already received one at my real job.

Posted by: Grim at September 13, 2011 01:20 PM (gyNYk)

You couldn't get a letter from your job that you had already gotten the flu vaccine?

Posted by: nevergiveup at September 13, 2011 01:21 PM (i6RpT)

211 Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 01:20 PM (EPcuy)
she was on Greta last night admitting openly she enjoys toying with her supporters

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Romneybot, The New Stupid) at September 13, 2011 01:21 PM (yAor6)

212 Palin joined the pile-on on Perry last night on Greta. She made a comment about "gettin' a kick" out of the attention she receives every time she's on Greta's show, and it nearly made me blow a gasket. And she teased, yet again, that she hasn't made up her mind whether to run or not.

I loved Palin when McLame chose her as his running mate, and staunchly defended her to lib family members.

Either run or don't run, but quit sitting on the sidelines pissing on other candidates. You come across as an attention whore.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 13, 2011 01:21 PM (UOM48)

213
Mass exodus in 3...2...


Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 01:12 PM

I wouldn't be surprised.

Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 01:22 PM (GXgac)

214 Boy I just reread my second to last sentence and I really buggered it. Try

There isn't a public safety mandate, from a highly infectious disease that it prevents, that places this vaccination under the
purview of government.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at September 13, 2011 01:22 PM (0q2P7)

215 Wampoon........ It's what's for Dinner !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: The Meat Industry at September 13, 2011 01:22 PM (48wze)

216 Gardisal doesn't cause autism or retardation or anything else.But, that doesn't change the fact that Perry is a jackbooted fascist thug for mandating it. Posted by: Oggc at September 13, 2011 01:03 PM

QFT

Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 01:22 PM (GXgac)

217 You know, I was thinking about how pissed off the anti-vax stuff makes me because it destroys any ability to have a reasonable conversation about the risks/benefits of vaccination. Before I'm accused of hurling bullshit again, please note that it is a fact that Gardisil can cause adverse reactions, including severe reactions and possibly death, though I do not know if there's been any confirmation of a causal connection between Gardisil and death. We should be able to debate the benefit of the vaccine vs. the remote possibility of a known serious adverse reaction. As I've mentioned before, I won't get Gardisil for myself because I fall into a category for which there is a heightened risk of adverse reaction. For pity's sake, I thought about it before getting my tetanus booster last time I was at the doctors because, yup, there is a remote possibility of some bad shit happening.I am unaware of any vaccine that is entirely risk free.Weighing risk v. benefit is actually the responsible thing to do.
There is also the fact that weshould be ableto discuss the differences between vaccination for airborne risks vs. risks from more intimate contact. HPV is not chicken pox. It is a difference in kind which leads to a different evaluation of the public health concerns. Reasonable people can come down on different sides of that issue.
I would hope that the above would be basically non-controversial. Yet, thanks to the fucking Lancet and those who are convinced that omg everybad thing that happens to my child must be because something wrong was done to the precious flower, I wind up getting thrown into the same category as the anti-vax freaks. This pisses me right the fuck off.

Posted by: alexthechick at September 13, 2011 01:22 PM (VtjlW)

218 Posted by: tasker at September 13, 2011 01:19 PM (brQV4)

Thank you for that analysis. Makes sense now.

Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 01:22 PM (EPcuy)

219 149
And Ace found an excellent article as to the advent of the term-
crony capitalism...Since when in the hell should a *Republican* be using the term *Capitalism* as a smear word to sneer?







First of all, what does being a "Republican" mean? Party member?
Generally vote that way? If the platform changes, does that mean I
change my position? Give me a break.



I'm a conservative libertarian by general outlook, who usually votes
Republican, not someone wedded to the party because I want to be in a
position of power once Republicans win in the normal cycle. That's David
Frum/Brooks territory.



Having settled that, you make an excellent point. Although Crony
Capitalism eloquently describes someone betraying Capitalism by
undercutting it, the second word can be a dog-whistle for those dimmer
souls who actually swallowed what their professors were pushing.



Therefore, to make it understandable to the mush-mind "Independent" and "Moderate, "we should call it by its proper name:

Corruption.

Posted by: Arms Merchant at September 13, 2011 01:23 PM (jx6di)

220 What do we have here?

Posted by: lu at September 13, 2011 01:23 PM (pLTLS)

221 Yeah, we got scared off of the vaccine for our kid. So guess what? HPV.

Posted by: kansas at September 13, 2011 01:23 PM (mka2b)

222 I thought there was a solid connection between HPV and cervical cancer? Is that not such a solid connnection now?


From www.cancer.gov:

Persistent HPV infections are now recognized as the cause of essentially
all cervical cancers. It was estimated that, in 2010, about 12,000
women in the United States would be diagnosed with this type of cancer
and more than 4,000 would die from it. Cervical cancer is diagnosed in
nearly half a million women each year worldwide, claiming a quarter of a
million lives annually.

Posted by: mpurinTexas, Evil Conservanatrix, supports Rick Perry, bitch at September 13, 2011 01:24 PM (pY3GI)

223 Amen,
AlextheChick. I don't like mandates for minor, semi-optional stuff like HPV, but i'm not one of those AUTISM freaks either.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at September 13, 2011 01:24 PM (epBek)

224 Jesus, how many points did you give her to begin with?

I think her heart for this country is in the right place. She was granted some pointage for that.

Posted by: Lady in Black at September 13, 2011 01:24 PM (ycuSb)

225
>>Socially, I am somewhere to the right of Genghis Khan,
Heh. that's hilarious

Posted by: Ben at September 13, 2011 01:24 PM (wuv1c)

226 We're getting distracted from the Main Enemy (as the Soviets used to
say), that being the stuttering clusterf*** of a miserable failure.

You kidding? It's too important to defend Saint Perry against someone polling at 4% and falling. People bitch about the hard-core Palinistas and then copy everything they do with "Perry" replacing "Palin".

Meanwhile Turkey's modifying planes we sold them to be able to shoot at other NATO planes, but by all means let's do the circular firing squad again.

Posted by: Ian S. at September 13, 2011 01:24 PM (tqwMN)

227 Posted by: lu at September 13, 2011 01:23 PM (pLTLS)
HOLY.CRAP.

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Romneybot, The New Stupid) at September 13, 2011 01:24 PM (yAor6)

228 But seriously, Michelle is what, like 3% in the polls? It's Perrys fault he sucks at debating. The head exploding here is going to be enormous if Palin announces.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 13, 2011 01:25 PM (Mo+zF)

229 Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at September 13, 2011 01:16 PM (EeYDk)

So she's saying that no vaccination should be mandated for children? None? Polio? Small-Pox? You know, those diseases we've mostly eradicated in the United States due to a broad policy of mandatory vaccinations?

That's the line I really don't get. Really.

I get not liking that he did it via Executive Order (though I'm not sure how else a new vaccine gets put on the mandatory list: do they really pass legislation for that?). I get the religious/moral argument that it's a vaccine for an STD. I don't get the argument that says he didn't have a right to mandate a vaccine at all. That the action itself- independent of what the vaccine was- is not conservative.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) is tired beyond tired of the trolls at September 13, 2011 01:25 PM (8y9MW)

230 Posted by: Ian S. at September 13, 2011 01:24 PM (tqwMN)
a little tense

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Romneybot, The New Stupid) at September 13, 2011 01:25 PM (yAor6)

231 Unless Ron Paul is your gynecologist.

I just threw up a little in my mouth. *gak*

Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian & Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 01:26 PM (iYbLN)

232 You couldn't get a letter from your job that you had already gotten the flu vaccine?
That's not the way the military works. It's all about making sure the stupidest among you doesn't screw things up.
Military bureaucracy is the DMV on steroids.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at September 13, 2011 01:26 PM (sbV1u)

233 The Saint Perry the VictimizedTM Congregation. heh.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 13, 2011 01:26 PM (Mo+zF)

234 Sarah Palin is looking better all the time here. She is thoroughly vetted, Has a solid base of support, has a deep outreach through Facebook, twitter etc. Also numerous blogs and websites that support her, EG; C4 Palin, O4Palin, Hillbuzz and many, many others.Believe it, she is the most Electable. Her broadside attacks on the Permanent political class and cronyism has now become mainstream Republican policy overnight. She is the real deal. Watch and learn how all campaigns of the future must be run. Palin/Rubio 2012!

Posted by: blogforce one at September 13, 2011 01:26 PM (lICB9)

235 220
What do we have here?

Mohammed on a ham sandwich....

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 13, 2011 01:26 PM (UOM48)

236 Once again,I live in Texas. My wife is an RN. I have 4 sons in school. All four recieved mandatory vaccinations for measles, mumps rubella, tetnus, ect. Yeah, you can opt out and it's not that hard to do. For God's sake, it's a public health issue and I'm assuming that Michelle, Palin, Santorum and the rest of thier kids have been innoculated under simular programs. And Ron Paul, excuse me "DR. Ron Paul" damn well knows what public health is and has raised kids in Texas, so for him to act suprised is insane.

Posted by: rhaubib at September 13, 2011 01:26 PM (q32Ly)

237 Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 13, 2011 01:25 PM (Mo+zF)
Palin is losing support with each passing day, her comments last night of enjoying her teasing and attacking of other candidates from the sideline has pissed some supporters off

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Romneybot, The New Stupid) at September 13, 2011 01:26 PM (yAor6)

238 I hereby declare today Screech Day.

All at once now... everyone SCREEEEEECHHHH!!!

Posted by: cherry pi, terrorist hostage taking SOB at September 13, 2011 01:27 PM (OhYCU)

239 and it turns you into a newt! but some people get better.
Posted by: BlackOrchid at September 13, 2011 12:50 PM (SB0V2)
So who was Newt BEFORE tha vax?

Posted by: giftogab at September 13, 2011 01:27 PM (SPVfc)

240 Uhh this is weird. Megan Kelly is pushing a bizarre line that Bachmann came away winning the debate last night, and may have put herself back at the head of the pack.

Uhhh.... what? really? I just read hotair who's got this story up too, and everyone.. I mean everyone is embarrassed that they ever supported Bachmann. She's done. How they are trying to run with this storyline is straight up crazy. I've never seen a mass exodus like this before

Posted by: Billy Barty at September 13, 2011 01:27 PM (LqEzN)

241 Bachmann + Palin = dead to me

The MIL is in infection control and so we all get our shots, even the voluntary ones. It's a matter of not wanting to die from things that could have been prevented.

And Rush said on today's show that he's warning Bachmann off this issue, too and that her comments about Gardasil causing mental retardation have her "jumping the shark." His words.

Posted by: Mandy P., Teahadi from Hobbitton at September 13, 2011 01:27 PM (qFpRI)

242 That's not the way the military works. It's all about making sure the stupidest among you doesn't screw things up.

Military bureaucracy is the DMV on steroids.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at September 13, 2011 01:26 PM (sbV1u)

That's not true. I'm in a Medical Unit in the USNR also and if you bring a letter in from your civilian job or Doc that you had the vaccine we put that in your Medical Record and your good to go.

Posted by: nevergiveup at September 13, 2011 01:27 PM (i6RpT)

243 I am not a doctor, but play one on TeeVee, and I see nothing wrong with having sex with retarded Texas girls. Especially if they are HPV free. Just sayin.

Posted by: Sub-Tard at September 13, 2011 01:28 PM (0M3AQ)

244 Posted by: blogforce one at September 13, 2011 01:26 PM (lICB9)
BWAHAHAHAHAHA
Hold On I Need A Breath
BWAHAHAHAHAHA

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Romneybot, The New Stupid) at September 13, 2011 01:28 PM (yAor6)

245 The media won, where Palin is concerned, so she is old news for the most part. Bachman needed no help from the media, she did herself in.

Posted by: giftogab at September 13, 2011 01:28 PM (SPVfc)

246 217.

I completely agree with you, alex.

You know I was worried this morning about what Bachmann had said b/c I could see it quickly becoming anti-vax but was hedging - then it got worse and worse.

I don't think HPV vax should be mandated; that said, it IS in fact mandated in my daughter's school, as of this year.

I mean, I had to get both kids hep B vax when they were INFANTS. state law. that's a lot harder to get than HPV even (which has been shown transmittable via skin-to-skin contact).

I'm a little more pro-Gardasil just having seen the young patients at my father's clinic with HPV-related cancers. He thought the numbers were up significantly in a very young cohort, and was pro-vax when it came out.

Unfortunately his own cancer had no vaccination, nor effective treatment.

Posted by: BlackOrchid at September 13, 2011 01:28 PM (SB0V2)

247 Posted by: alexthechick at September 13, 2011 01:22 PM (VtjlW)

Burrrrnnnn herrrr!

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at September 13, 2011 01:28 PM (jx2j9)

248 I thought there was a solid connection between HPV and cervical cancer? Is that not such a solid connnection now?

Well even if you are unvaccinated, and even if you are a woman, and of the over 30 ST-HPV variants that exist, even if you get one of the worst forms of HPV that leads to cancer, there is a 90% chance, at least, that you will simply get better inside of a year and never develop cancer.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at September 13, 2011 01:28 PM (0q2P7)

249 The Saint Perry the VictimizedTM Congregation. heh.

I can't stop laughing. You knew it was coming, right???

Seriously, I hope everyone (ahem...) can take a deep breath.

Posted by: cherry pi, terrorist hostage taking SOB at September 13, 2011 01:28 PM (OhYCU)

250 A pity, I kind of liked Bachmann, but then I guess it was just a rather shallow, "she sounds good" kind of liking.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at September 13, 2011 01:28 PM (i0App)

251 Posted by: blogforce one at September 13, 2011 01:26 PM (lICB9)
Who let the troll in?

Posted by: Sean Bannion at September 13, 2011 01:29 PM (sbV1u)

252 Palin is losing support with each passing day, her comments last night of enjoying her teasing and attacking of other candidates from the sideline has pissed some supporters off
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Romneybot, The New Stupid) at September 13, 2011 01:26 PM (yAor6)
Yeah, I saw the interview. It wasnt like you said. Dont worry though, according to here, Rick Perry is like the Jesus of Republicans and will heal all wounds that ail us.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 13, 2011 01:29 PM (Mo+zF)

253 But seriously, Michelle is what, like 3% in the polls? It's Perrys fault he sucks at debating. The head exploding here is going to be enormous if Palin announces.
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 13, 2011 01:25 PM (Mo+zF)
Nah, there are a lot of candidates I wouldn't lift a finger for. Palin has joined that group. She can do whatever she wants, I won't be a part of it.

Posted by: robtr at September 13, 2011 01:29 PM (MtwBb)

254 200
PPP has this blurb in the pdf-

PPP does a very good job of milking that "the last poll is the one that counts" malarky.

In every single race they poll -- every single race -- the Dem's support slips until the day before the election where, lo and behold, their call is accurate.

Look at the NV-2 race:
Do you believe that on 8/22 it was polling 42% D-43% R
and then just 3 weeks later it was 37% D-50% R?

A 10-point swing in 3 weeks? In which the results were way out of wack from the partisan breakdown of the district?

Low information voters tend to vote along party lines, which is more in line with the latter result than the former.

And yet, when the Republican wins by 12+ points, PPP will say that their poll was accurate.

Posted by: AmishDude at September 13, 2011 01:29 PM (T0NGe)

255 Unless Ron Paul is your gynecologist.

this may be unconfortable and feel a little cold. Let's see how many silver dimes we can get into this coin purse.

Posted by: Ron Paul at September 13, 2011 01:30 PM (wuv1c)

256 I don't get the argument that says he didn't have a right to mandate a vaccine at all. That the action itself- independent of what the vaccine was- is not conservative.
That's what I was ranting about above. Questioninghis actions in re: this vaccine =/= stating that there should be no mandate for vaccinations at all.
Seriously, I am becoming full of utter despair at the apparent loss of ability of the vast majority of humanity to appreciate distinctions. I have a feeling Venn did, indeed, take his diagrams back.

Posted by: alexthechick at September 13, 2011 01:30 PM (VtjlW)

257 3) The CDC recommends the HPV vaccination after years of research and study.
Posted by: mpurinTexas, Evil Conservanatrix, supports Rick Perry, bitch
The CDC was asked repeatedly what it thought about TSA goons sticking their hands into people's underwear and not changing gloves between each person. This included citations showing the CDC promoting practices such as changing after every contact. The CDC referred all inquiries to the TSA.
CDC recommendations don't mean nearly as much as you think they do.

Posted by: Blue Hen at September 13, 2011 01:30 PM (6rX0K)

258 BTW, Bachmann is toast now. and Palin, by waiting avoided the "catfight" the LSM wanted so badly. With Bachmann in the low single digits now, there is no "Palin stealing Bachmanns' thunder anymore.It is Rick Perry who is in trouble with his weak answers abnout AGW, Soc. Sec, Etc. I was rooting for Rick, but he has to step up his game. BIG TIME. He is getting torn to shreds walking point.

Posted by: blogforce one at September 13, 2011 01:30 PM (lICB9)

259 Yeah, I saw the interview. It wasnt like you said. Dont worry though, according to here, Rick Perry is like the Jesus of Republicans and will heal all wounds that ail us.
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 13, 2011 01:29 PM (Mo+zF)
i'm gonna so enjoy Palinista tears when she doesnt run

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Romneybot, The New Stupid) at September 13, 2011 01:30 PM (yAor6)

260 Posted by: alexthechick at September 13, 2011 01:22 PM

I don't think there is a single medicine, injected, inhaled, swallowed or sprayed in the neighbor's back yard, that doesn't offer some risk for side effects in some people. Percentages may vary, but you can kill any lab rat if you give it a heavy enough dosage of anything.

I'm old enough to have had the polio vaccine -- via sugar cube -- and remember that a few children actually got polio from it. I believe the total was fewer than a dozen. My parents and I weren't given any option: if I was going to attend school, I would down the cube like a good boy.

I didn't get polio. Brain damage or other bad effects? Depends on who you talk to, I guess.

Posted by: MrScribbler at September 13, 2011 01:30 PM (YjjrR)

261 Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 13, 2011 01:29 PM (Mo+zF)

Yes, and we sacrifice trolls on the Holy Altar of Perry...

Posted by: Joffen at September 13, 2011 01:30 PM (EPcuy)

262 255
Unless Ron Paul is your gynecologist.

this may be unconfortable and feel a little cold. Let's see how many silver dimes we can get into this coin purse.

Posted by: Ron Paul at September 13, 2011 01:30 PM (wuv1c)

Thanks for helping me with my diet. You just put me off my lunch....and dinner.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 13, 2011 01:31 PM (UOM48)

263 Perry: I'm here to kick ass and chew bubblegum and..
Palin: Seriously? Bubblegum? Go play with your legos boy. I drink f*ckin tiger blood

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 13, 2011 01:31 PM (Mo+zF)

264
The head exploding here is going to be enormous if Palin announces.

She can do whatever she wants. She done as a candidate in this primary. Too many people, like myself, have simply moved on from her and don't plan on going back.
My guess is that if she were to get in, she wouldn't get more than 10-15 percent.
It's a Romney Perry race regardless of who gets in at this point.

Posted by: Ben at September 13, 2011 01:31 PM (wuv1c)

265 That's not true. I'm in a Medical Unit in the USNR also and if you bring a letter in from your civilian job or Doc that you had the vaccine we put that in your Medical Record and your good to go.
Yes, you must be in the 4% of military units with commander's who have some common sense.
That's not the norm. I've been in that same situation multiple times - and have had to get stuck multiple times by some Med Service officer who couldn't stop and thing for a second.

Posted by: Sean Bannion at September 13, 2011 01:31 PM (sbV1u)

266 234
Sarah Palin is looking better all the time here. She is thoroughly
vetted, Has a solid base of support, has a deep outreach through
Facebook, twitter etc. Also numerous blogs and websites that support
her, EG; C4 Palin, O4Palin, Hillbuzz and many, many others.Believe it,
she is the most Electable. Her broadside attacks on the Permanent
political class and cronyism has now become mainstream Republican
policy overnight. She is the real deal. Watch and learn how all
campaigns of the future must be run. Palin/Rubio 2012!


Conservative congressional Republicans had been pushing-back against crony capitalism before she ever gave that speech.

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 13, 2011 01:31 PM (o2lIv)

267 alexthechick,

Have you had your collection of Lara Croft action figures vaccinated?

Burnnnnnn the witchhhhhhhhhhhh!

Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian & Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 01:32 PM (iYbLN)

268 255 "Let's see how many silver dimes we can get into this coin purse"

Thread winner!

Posted by: Arms Merchant at September 13, 2011 01:32 PM (jx6di)

269 As a Tea Party advocate, I would like to have seen Bachmann acquit herself well in the primaries. Not happenin'....

As a practicing physician, I am frustrated by the volume of pseudo-scientific medical nonsense touted as fact, often promulgated by nitwits and naive fervent zealots. [Kinda' like Global Warming.] Indeed, the vaccine/autism link has been thoroughly debunked and formally retracted.

BTW -- Despite all the hype, I have yet to encounter a cancer attributable to air pollution, non-vocational asbestos exposure, power lines, or second-hand tobacco smoke. However, I do daily treat patients with gynecologic, anal, oral cancers caused by the virulent strains of HPV targeted by Gardasil. More than 50% of the high school girls in my state have already been infected. My teenage sons, potential vectors victims, have been vaccinated.

Harrison J. Bounel = Barry Soetoro = SCOAMF

Posted by: Dr. Molon Labe at September 13, 2011 01:32 PM (v98Wh)

270
You guys hear this?

A study shows that children who watch 9 minutes of Sponge Bob will contract HPV.


Posted by: soothsayer at September 13, 2011 01:32 PM (G/zuv)

271 What part of "opt out" do people not understand?
The best arugument was last night, very late, before I went to bed. One of the posters on Ace of Spades, who is one of "someone special's" aliases, posted that "her sister even had a vaccination years ago that left a big white scar on her upper arm!" Eleventy!!!11! Eureka! Could it be....smallpox? Oh, the shock of reading this for me. I rolled my eyes and took my vaccinated bod to bed. And soon! I will have my yearly flu shot! And! No! Will not "get the flu" from the freakin' dead virus poison surging through my system.
We "opted out" of the meningitis vaccine for our sons prior to college, discussed it with our pediatrician, and opted out as they were in apartments and not dorms. Big. Freaking. Deal.
Above posters are correct: there is a surge of measles, mumps, flipping whooping cough (pertusis) in the USA, due to illegal aliens and the Jenny McCarthy fear-parents (who mostly home school but these kids can't remain in a bubble for life). When we start having outbreaks of polio I guess there will be some attention given to the lack of vaccines. Every winter we have outbreaks of mumps and measles now in US colleges that you did not see in the past.
http://tinyurl.com/kmn8ld

Posted by: ChristyBlinky at September 13, 2011 01:32 PM (baL2B)

272
She's be better off knocking Perry on the Dream Act.

Once again, Rush agrees with me. Perry better reverse himself on this Dream Act defense and walk it back before it's too late to do so without looking like a complete flip-flopper.

Rush is right, this vaccine thing ain't gonna hurt Perry, but this Dream Act stuff will.

Posted by: Dave at September 13, 2011 01:32 PM (Xm1aB)

273 Meanwhile, some poll or another has Perry 11 points behind Preznit PassThisBill.

Posted by: I'm in a New York state of mind at September 13, 2011 01:33 PM (4sQwu)

274 Palin said something about Perry. Burn the rino!

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 13, 2011 01:33 PM (Mo+zF)

275 I don't know what happened to Bachman last night? Is this the biggest problem facing the nation? Her face did not look happy last night and I think she really stepped on her swounce last night. Why did she revert to her feelings last night? Might be desperation. Perry did fine even though everyone ganged up on him ..........

Posted by: Delanety Hunstrell at September 13, 2011 01:33 PM (48wze)

276
>>As a practicing physician, I am frustrated by the volume of pseudo-scientific medical nonsense touted as fact, often promulgated by nitwits and naive fervent zealots. [Kinda' like Global Warming.] Indeed, the vaccine/autism link has been thoroughly debunked and formally retracted.

The horseshoe marshmellows in Lucky Charms serial cause vestibular irregularities.
Tis the truth.

Posted by: Ben at September 13, 2011 01:33 PM (wuv1c)

277 Dear Michelle Malkin-

If you want to be truly committed to parental sovereignty -what do you have against abortion?

Parents have the ultimate sovereignty -right?

Posted by: Gloria Steinhem at September 13, 2011 01:33 PM (brQV4)

278 A pity, I kind of liked Bachmann, but then I guess it was just a rather shallow, "she sounds good" kind of liking.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm
I bet it was the boobies.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian & Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 01:33 PM (iYbLN)

279 Perry: I'm here to kick ass and chew bubblegum and..
Palin: Seriously? Bubblegum? Go play with your legos boy. I drink f*ckin tiger blood
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 13, 2011 01:31 PM (Mo+zF)
please Palin can't even shoot right

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Romneybot, The New Stupid) at September 13, 2011 01:34 PM (yAor6)

280 98mph cut fastballs, and Perry has to hit a few out. Has not done so. A few foul balls so far. Is he trying to draw a walk??

Posted by: blogforce one at September 13, 2011 01:34 PM (lICB9)

281 Anyone ever ask why Merck has a flat drug pipeline?

Maybe they were giving money to politicians to hawk their products while rationing their own scientists' access to scientific tools needed to discover new drugs.

Not a good strategy overall.

Posted by: anon at September 13, 2011 01:34 PM (1r8Bl)

282 The horseshoe marshmellows in Lucky Charms serial cause vestibular irregularities.
But we're still cool with Crunchberries, right?

Posted by: The Cap'n at September 13, 2011 01:34 PM (sbV1u)

283 Ahem.

VERY INTERESTING new thread up.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 13, 2011 01:34 PM (UOM48)

284
Rubio sure does seem to be setting himself for the VP slot.

Posted by: Y-not at September 13, 2011 01:06 PM

I hope not. I think he can do a lot more in the Senate over the next 4-8 years than he could drinking a bucket of warm spit.

Imagine if Hillary had stayed in the Senate and been a Democrat maverick instead of jumping into the Obama volcano.

Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 01:34 PM (GXgac)

285 Here's the thing Bachmann and a lot of people who want to capitalize on Gardasil are missing, at least as far as I can tell:

It seems to me the reaction to the "mandatory" vaccine was more along the lines of, "Dammit, what the hell are they doing to our kids now without our permission?"

Parents are so used to being undermined by the schools, that their "What the hell is this?" turned to outrage because you have to really get into the details of HPV to understand it, and it sounds to the layman more like passing out condoms in the public schools than anything else.

Posted by: AmishDude at September 13, 2011 01:34 PM (T0NGe)

286
cereal! shoot!

Posted by: Ben at September 13, 2011 01:35 PM (wuv1c)

287 CDC recommendations don't mean nearly as much as you think they do.


It means more than what the Lancet publishes or what Bachmann screeches about.

Posted by: mpurinTexas, Evil Conservanatrix, supports Rick Perry, bitch at September 13, 2011 01:35 PM (pY3GI)

288 My teenage sons, potential vectors victims, have been vaccinated.Harrison J. Bounel = Barry Soetoro = SCOAMF
Posted by: Dr. Molon Labe
I now pronounce you husband and vector. You may kiss the vector, once you've applied the antibacterial swab.

Posted by: Dr. Luv at September 13, 2011 01:35 PM (326rv)

289 well, instead of 5000 word movie review, we get 5000 word anti-vax take downs.

Posted by: joeindc44 at September 13, 2011 01:35 PM (QxSug)

290 HPV does not cause cancer, there are a multitude of factors which will
eventually result in it in anything that lives long enough.

I disagree. HPV does cause cancer. There are many strains of HPV. Out of those, 4 types are directly associated with cervical cancer. They account for 90%+ of the cases of cervical cancer.

Posted by: Lady in Black at September 13, 2011 01:35 PM (ycuSb)

291 Palin: Seriously? Bubblegum? Go play with your legos boy. I drink f*ckin tiger blood
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 13, 2011 01:31 PM (Mo+zF)
Wehave a winner....or should I say winning....someone has finally figured out that Charlie Sheen and Palin are one in the same....never seen em in a room together,have ya!

Posted by: giftogab at September 13, 2011 01:35 PM (SPVfc)

292 But, that doesn't change the fact that Perry is a jackbooted fascist thug for mandating it.
He doesn't seem very boot-y, but the mandate is fascist—not because people are forced to take the vaccine, but because the vaccine's legal status as "mandated" means that insurance companies are forced to pay for every dose its customers take (which they're suddenly all all but forced to do), whether the companies think it's medically or financially wise to do so (which they don't). And they have to pay somebody—a single somebody, who happens to donate to Perry, and to direct a chunk of its lobbying budget to employing a host of Perry "cronies."
Fascism is that—political misallocation of economic resources—not boots.
Now, understand, I don't oppose Perry, specifically, or favor any other candidate over him. No non-fascist can ever be President (we lost that war), and of the ones we have to choose from this time, he's the least personally grating, so, better him than them.
But we don't have to lie, do we? He's a fascist, and he does fascist shit, and this is an example of it.

Posted by: oblig. at September 13, 2011 01:35 PM (xvZW9)

293 Yes, you must be in the 4% of military units with commander's who have some common sense.

That's not the norm. I've been in that same situation multiple times - and have had to get stuck multiple times by some Med Service officer who couldn't stop and thing for a second.



Posted by: Sean Bannion at September 13, 2011 01:31 PM (sbV1u)
Yeah well it's actually a reg Navy wide. It's applied everywhere I've been, but your right some asshole OIC sometimes has a stick up his/her ass.

Posted by: nevergiveup at September 13, 2011 01:35 PM (i6RpT)

294 The good news: there's a new thread.
The bad news: it's another circular firing squad.

Somewhere, the SCOAMF is laughing his ass off.

Posted by: Ian S. at September 13, 2011 01:35 PM (tqwMN)

295 I was a Hospital Corpsman in the Navy (Surface Force Independent Duty Corpsman and Preventive Medicine Tech) I ran both STD and Immunization clinics. I clearly remember the vaccine / autism correlation being published in BSN magazine as far back as 84/85. Of course at that time BSN magazine was not a peer review journal (and may not be now I haven't read it for years) so Wakefield may have been the first one to publish a peer reviewed study, but he is far from solely responsible for that particular lie. Unfortunately it is so ingrained now that some portion of the population will always believe it.

As for the HPV immunizations being mandatory- I know they were controversial but the idea was to develop a herd immunity. To reach a certain tipping point where the virus was no longer viable because there weren't enough unimmunized hosts for effective transmission. In order for herd immunity to take effect for a virus like HPV the population at large has to have about an 85% immunization rate. That is why insurance premiums and such are written to cover mandatory vaccinations and why school districts require them.

Posted by: chad at September 13, 2011 01:36 PM (YmQkS)

296 #276

"The horseshoe marshmellows in Lucky Charms serial cause vestibular irregularities."

And dwarfism.

Posted by: anon at September 13, 2011 01:36 PM (1r8Bl)

297 She lost me when she thought she'd upstage Paul Ryan's rebuttal speech.

Posted by: Random at September 13, 2011 01:36 PM (dE7cT)

298 I had a pneumococcal and flu vaccine in the last week and nothing happened *looks down**

OMFG!! I've grown a dick on my foot!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian & Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 01:36 PM (iYbLN)

299 What part of "opt out" do people not understand?

The part that I explained above. The it wasn't any of their God damned business to begin with part.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at September 13, 2011 01:36 PM (0q2P7)

300
4
Yeah, Bachmann is dead to me.

Sadly, me too. I can deal with policy disagreements. Willful ignorance? not so much. Palin is drifting (speeding?) into that territory as well.

Newt is in the same boat. If Oromney stops doubling down on OromneyCare, he can recover in my eyes. But I don't see that happening. Santorum just doesn't excite me.

So I'm left with Cain (needs seasoning, I'm thinking) and Perry.

Gig 'em. And SECede.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at September 13, 2011 01:37 PM (1hM1d)

301 Have you had your collection of Lara Croft action figures vaccinated?Burnnnnnn the witchhhhhhhhhhhh!
No, they are competent, capable women who can decide that for themselves. Did I ever mention I got this one too?
And bring it, the new riding crop arrived and can use some breaking in.


Posted by: alexthechick at September 13, 2011 01:37 PM (VtjlW)

302
Palin: Seriously? Bubblegum? Go play with your legos boy. I drink f*ckin tiger blood Posted by: Flapjackmaka

So, wait. You're comparing Palin to Charlie Sheen?

Smooth. Real Smooth.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at September 13, 2011 01:37 PM (s1vtf)

303 Why blame her advisors? Give her some credit for teh stupid.


Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 12:48 PM (GXgac)
Exactly.

Posted by: Random at September 13, 2011 01:37 PM (dE7cT)

304 CDC recommendations don't mean nearly as much as you think they do.It means more than what the Lancet publishes or what Bachmann screeches about.
Posted by: mpurinTexas, Evil Conservanatrix, supports Rick Perry, bitch
We can't them to be honest about a level of hygience we ask for from a McDonalds employee, but at least they rank above a politician. Good to know.
And aim the Lancet crap at Ace; I didn't mention them.

Posted by: Blue Hen at September 13, 2011 01:37 PM (326rv)

305 276
>>As a practicing physician, I am frustrated by the volume of pseudo-scientific medical nonsense touted as fact, often promulgated by nitwits and naive fervent zealots. [Kinda' like Global Warming.] Indeed, the vaccine/autism link has been thoroughly debunked and formally retracted.
The horseshoe marshmellows in Lucky Charms serial cause vestibular irregularities.
Tis the truth.

Who in their right mind would eat anything prepared by midget like Celts? Doesn't Haggis stop all discussion of Irish cuisine as a human achievement?

Posted by: Sub-Tard at September 13, 2011 01:38 PM (0M3AQ)

306 OMFG!! I've grown a dick on my foot!!!!!!!!!!

In relation to these Jew Gold coins, how big is it?

Posted by: Ron Paul, Celebrity Gynecologist at September 13, 2011 01:38 PM (tqwMN)

307 286
cereal! shoot!
So Palin is a cereal killer now? Lay off my Golden Grahams!

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at September 13, 2011 01:38 PM (9hSKh)

308 I just threw up a little in my mouth.  *gak*

I hear the light reflected from tinfoil is very flattering on your pooter.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 13, 2011 01:38 PM (l9zgN)

309 I'm not anti-vaccine, as my kids have all the normal vaccinations, including chicken pox. My youngest just got a tetanus booster as required by her school. I was also furious when I got a call from an anti-vaccine mom telling me her daughter, who had just accompanied my daughter on a youth group trip, had whooping cough. However, the Gardasil vaccine is different in that you can't just pick up HPV from riding in a van with someone. And I know a woman in her twenties who has to be treated for at least two years for side effects she got after getting the vaccine. I really don't want my kids getting the vaccine. I think that's my right as a parent. At least they won't be spreading anything to anyone else.

Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at September 13, 2011 01:38 PM (MyByM)

310 Yeah yeah yeah yeah, BUT, mutherfvckers, let's not exactly set the precedent for compulsory vaccinations. Not all vaccinations are hunkydory and some of those compounds can potentially fvck you up.

Hey, I'm military, I get stabbed with more stuff and I grin and bear it, BUT if I didn't want to get stabbed with Anthrax, for instance, I can always clock out of the military. Short of leaving my state (or country, if this is the road everyone has a serious hard-on for), I'd rather not be required to get stabbed as a civilian.

If you innoculate me against everything, pretty soon, I'm sure, you'll hit that sweet 5% spot for serious side effects, and Imma gonna get pissed when my three balls drip momma's milk.

Posted by: Vercingetorix at September 13, 2011 01:38 PM (N8eC4)

311 Is that a nightmare?

No, but its unnecessary. I still don't get what is wrong with letting parents choose. Both sides of this "debate" seem silly to me (the vaccines are the devil's playground vs. the you must do this govt mandate or jump through the fiery hoops because its for the children).

ps - the "But there's an OPT-OUT! people remind me of the RON PAUL! people.


Posted by: Guy Fawkes at September 13, 2011 01:39 PM (PEwFJ)

312 Doctor Ace, Doctor Bachmann, Doctor Who?

Posted by: Anthony's Weiner at September 13, 2011 01:39 PM (Y5I9o)

313
Have you had your collection of Lara Croft action figures vaccinated?

Burnnnnnn the witchhhhhhhhhhhh!
No, they are competent, capable women who can decide that for themselves. Did I ever mention I got this one too?
And bring it, the new riding crop arrived and can use some breaking in.

Posted by: alexthechick


WOW. She has some major hoo hahs on her. I'm impressed. Riding crop?? Um, I'm a delicate fucking flower.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian & Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 01:40 PM (iYbLN)

314 Being against vaccinating children is the loony suburban mom version of what being against DDT is for lefty enviromentalists. They're both anti-science and anti-rationality; and they both will end up with blood on their hands. For the latter (DDT) see Jim Lacey's recent great article in NRO.

Posted by: The Regular Guy at September 13, 2011 01:40 PM (qHCyt)

315 I once had a thought that Bachman could be President. First, you actually have to be Presidential. She's not.

Pinata Perry, under an onslaught of misquotes and bullshit, actually was. He owned up to his version of the Texas dream act and although I disagree with him, he was honest and Presidential. The Gaurdasil thing, once again, honest and Presidential.

I still support Mrs. Palin, but this crazy Texan has my attention.

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at September 13, 2011 01:40 PM (ZDUD4)

316
Conservative congressional Republicans had been pushing-back against crony capitalism before she ever gave that speech.

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 13, 2011 01:31 PM (o2lIv)
Nothing wrong with that, and yes Palin didn't invent the fight against cronyism. But are they potential candidates?

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at September 13, 2011 01:41 PM (bAL0J)

317 I'm sure Bachmann is a nice person away from the camera, and I'll admit to wondering how she is in bed (she's a real minx for all you suckers who have never been there; turns out I took her places that gay dude she's married to never could), but this is getting ridiculous.

Vaccinations do not cause autism; people saying that need to get a fucking grip. And an HPV vaccination will not make a pre-teen girl mentally retarded. Good grief.

I officially have no use for Bachmann anymore. Well, almost no use.

Posted by: Randy Old Goat at September 13, 2011 01:41 PM (8/DeP)

318 Sub-Tard,

I thought haggis was Scottish?

Posted by: mpfs, TPT, Barbarian & Evil Vaccine Supporter at September 13, 2011 01:41 PM (iYbLN)

319 I think that's my right as a parent. At least they won't be spreading anything to anyone else.
Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at September 13, 2011 01:38 PM (MyByM)
Yeah it is your right and you could have chosen the opt out if the bill would have ever been enacted. On the other hand I have never heard of anyone getting polio riding in a van either.

Posted by: robtr at September 13, 2011 01:43 PM (MtwBb)

320 BTW, none of this has to do with Perry's poor decision making to issue an EO and end run the legislature (and fight them all the way) plus the bad optics of his chief of staff lobbying for Merck. Not a fatal error, but still a mistake.


Posted by: Guy Fawkes at September 13, 2011 01:43 PM (PEwFJ)

321
Ace - You are right. She is acting like a crazy woman, and I used to like her. I want a candidate who hammers Obama relentlessly.
Lovedthe Dixie Chick tweet saga. You, Jim Treacher, and Iowahawk are all awesome when you get fired up about something. I think you influence people more than you know with your tweets. I imagine there are many like me who don't officiallytweet or follow anybodybut who do follow certain Twitter pages.

Posted by: PowerLifter at September 13, 2011 01:43 PM (NDk0G)

322
Perplexing to me why an otherwise intelligent
candidate would take this turn be so stupid....


Posted by: Cheri at September 13, 2011 12:57 PM (G+Wff)
Who the hell are you talking about?

Posted by: Random at September 13, 2011 01:44 PM (dE7cT)

323 Riding crops?
Yeah, they're pretty cool..... But I prefer bull whips. They make a nice *snap* and you can use them for more things.

Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at September 13, 2011 01:44 PM (mwfMy)

324 318 Sub-Tard,I thought haggis was Scottish?

Scots don't believe in filthymidgets with pots of gold. Scots - Irish, they are all a bunch of pasty wankers with crooked teeth eating sheep innards and wearing dresses. A pox on all of them.

Posted by: Sub-Tard at September 13, 2011 01:45 PM (0M3AQ)

325 To opt-out in Texas, you must get the following:


"An affidavit signed by the applicant or, if a minor, by the applicant's
parent or guardian stating that the applicant declines immunization for
reasons of
conscience, including a religious belief.
A form must be obtained at
the Health Department."

Not that difficult.

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 13, 2011 01:46 PM (o2lIv)

326 Well, to be honest, robtr, I have no idea how polio is spread, since I have never had to worry about it during my lifetime. I'm sure, however, that it involves less than sexual contact.

Posted by: Barb the Evil Genius at September 13, 2011 01:47 PM (MyByM)

327 Vaccine mandates are not fascist if individuals can opt out. The end.

Posted by: SarahW at September 13, 2011 01:47 PM (OoFwu)

328 "I'm sure Bachmann is a nice person away from the camera..."

Why are you sure of this? Jeff B., who worked for her campaign, doesn't seem to think so. I may be putting words in his mouth, but at the very least, he doesn't trust her.

Posted by: Random at September 13, 2011 01:47 PM (dE7cT)

329 Ace, this is a very thorough and well argued blog post.

Really.

Apparently there is some kook mentality underlying this issue. I'm sure Bachmann will get some support from those kooks, but also, she might convince a few suckers to not get their kids vaccinated.

If they do have an anti-cancer vaccine, I would want my child to take it. Yeah, it's a cancer caused by a sexually transmitted virus, but even a virgin on her wedding day can get this one. This one is unbelievably common.

Odds are that two of the eight Republican candidates on that stage had contracted HPV at some point.

I personally think Santorum was correct that diseases that are not normally communicated with coughing and stuff like that is really not the government's business, but it really is a tough call.

I think Perry deserves an apology from Bachmann, certainly.

Posted by: Dustin at September 13, 2011 01:48 PM (fF625)

330 Thank you, Ace, for your informative and sane discussion of the issue! Very well put.

Posted by: Mary at September 13, 2011 01:48 PM (t4WVf)

331 316
Nothing wrong with that, and yes Palin didn't invent the
fight against cronyism. But are they potential candidates?

No, but the post left the impression that she did in fact start the fight against crony capitalism.

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 13, 2011 01:48 PM (o2lIv)

332 Vaccinations: The Circular Firing Squad Issue of 2011. What will Pubs kill each other with in 2012? Something to do with fabric softener, me thinks....

Posted by: Joejm65 at September 13, 2011 01:48 PM (tpK0A)

333 Opt-In without govt interference equals freedom. The end.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at September 13, 2011 01:49 PM (PEwFJ)

334 I think, I'm not sure, that by making it "mandatory" with an opt-out that the vaccine goes on the list of vaccines provided by the state and are on the list of those recommended/pushed by the pediatrician. My boys got the HiB vaccine when it was first available and the meningitis vaccine but they were not mandatory. The "mandatoriness" makes it more available, cheaper, more likely to be paid for by insurers, double checked by school personel etc.
It make sense that to make it widespread that it should be mandatory with an opt out.
I also agree with this stance in a border state when God knows what creepy diseases the illegals are carting over. Hell, getting them vaccinated is the minimum we can do for our own health.

Posted by: dagny at September 13, 2011 01:50 PM (cdzG0)

335 83.....Funny thing for Perry is that these issues are what will hurt him in the primary, but help in the general...
_____
This!..... Yes, Jollyroger. This cannot be said enough.
Perry just needs to hunker down and smile and get through this circular firing squad that is going on..... Because out of all of the candidates, including Sarah Pile-on, Perry has what it will take to win the general for us.

Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at September 13, 2011 01:50 PM (mwfMy)

336 "The horseshoe marshmellows in Lucky Charms serial cause vestibular irregularities." And dwarfism.
Posted by: anon at September 13, 2011 01:36 PM (1r8Bl)
Psst, I've got a real good load of RED MM's comin in...our plan to take over the world is almost complete

Posted by: Kid's food terrorist at September 13, 2011 01:51 PM (FIDMq)

337 333
Opt-In without govt interference equals freedom. The end.

So it is wrong to require any vaccinations?

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 13, 2011 01:51 PM (o2lIv)

338 Yeah it is your right and you could have chosen the opt out if the bill
would have ever been enacted. On the other hand I have never heard of
anyone getting polio riding in a van either.

Polio is highly infectious. You cannot avoid it in society. It is a door knobs type disease, and easy to spread via casual contact. Anyone who has the disease actively contaminates every place they go.

An Opt-Out is akin to license. Where you petition government authority for permission to conduct your life outside a norm they have established. In this case it is none of their business, and as I said above, the vaccine is likely a great idea. But, if just simply being a great idea is good enough for mandates with opt outs, a lot of progressives are foaming at the mouth right now with a lot more "great ideas" they think you and your kids should be doing.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at September 13, 2011 01:51 PM (0q2P7)

339 210: You couldn't get a letter from your job that you had already gotten the flu vaccine?
Nope, a local medical clinic was doing flu vaccines for $20 in the lobby at work. They weren't keeping good (well, any) records. If I had kept my receipt I would have been OK, but I didn't. Work didn't keep any record at all.

Posted by: Grim at September 13, 2011 01:52 PM (gyNYk)

340 Why are you sure of this? Jeff B., who worked for her campaign, doesn't
seem to think so. I may be putting words in his mouth, but at the very
least, he doesn't trust her.

Fair enough, I don't actually know her, maybe she sucks away from the camera as much as she does on. Maybe she just seemed really nice when we were having sex in my imagination.

Posted by: Randy Old Goat at September 13, 2011 01:52 PM (8/DeP)

341 Michele Bachmann never said Gardasil caused autism. She said it never should've been mandated for all 11-year-old girls in the State of Texas by a leader who wants to become President on the GOP ticket. She said there are health concerns and that parents should decide about the Gardasil vaccinations for their children, not the state. She was right about ALL of that, and I don't understand the piling on and the misrepresentations of her position here.

Perry's opt-out in Texas was for philosophical or religious reasons and required documentation on the part of the parents for conscientious objection. Try putting that on your kid at the public school.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_13plsrydPY

Google Gardasil deaths and try to imagine being the parents of an 11-year-old elementary school girl suddenly required to have three of these injections (that last how long? Nobody's sure) when she may or may not be sexually active for another 5 or more years. One-size-fits-all top-down governing? Because Perry doesn't like cancer? Screw that. What's the matter with you people today?

Posted by: Lurker at September 13, 2011 01:52 PM (U30x1)

342 I think we need to primary Bachmann in her house race. Kooks screaming that vaccinating pre teen kids will make them retarded are shameful con artists for the most part. Some of Bachmann's comments are insincere.

This isn't a good year for it, but in 2014 it would be nice to replace her with a conservative instead of a zealot.

This isn't the only issue where her conservatism appears to be completely artificial and unprincipled. She fundamentally doesn't understand state's rights, insisting that it's unconstitutional for states to do things that are none of the fed's business.

She's just using conservatism to con people into supporting her. She will one up whatever anyone else says, so the realistic and workable conservatism is overwhelmed with the ridiculous and impossible.

We could do a lot better.

Posted by: Dustin at September 13, 2011 01:52 PM (fF625)

343 Bachmann's problem is that she needed more experience before becoming a presidential candidate. She is pretty much positioning herself as an also-ran forever.

Posted by: Mr_Write at September 13, 2011 01:53 PM (VJUQK)

344 So it is wrong to require any vaccinations?

No,
Where a public safety risk exists, that the public cannot reasonably protect itself from. Then yes the government may step in and require vaccination. This is not one of those cases.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at September 13, 2011 01:53 PM (0q2P7)

345
87If Bachmann doesn't lose that vagina, she'll never get Ace's support.
Posted by: Dr Spank
What an incredibly lazy line of attack.
Guess you got nothin', huh?
Sucks when your candidate is bug-fuck crazy and devoid of any demonstrable political accomplishments.

Posted by: Warden at September 13, 2011 01:54 PM (KulgD)

346 Yeah, well on this one I'm not a libertarian. Get the fucking vaccine to keep ME and MINE safe. You can't have only part of the population getting vaccinated. If you want to die from some easily vaccinated against disease then go to africa.

Posted by: dagny at September 13, 2011 01:54 PM (cdzG0)

347 polio is both an airborne droplet spread like a cold and fecal/oral like most food borne illnesses, which is why you should never let a fast food employee scoop ice into your drink without using an ice scoop if they run their dirty hands thru the ice it is all contaminated. I can't tell you how many times we sampled ice at fast food restaurants on base and came back with e-coli growing because employees don't wash their hands.

#1 cause of food borne illness in the US dirty ice at fast food restaurants.

Posted by: chad at September 13, 2011 01:54 PM (YmQkS)

348 Bachmann's problem is that she needed more experience before becoming a
presidential candidate. She is pretty much positioning herself as an
also-ran forever.

This. Bachmann = the next Palin (if she's that lucky). I'm tired of both of them already.

Posted by: Randy Old Goat at September 13, 2011 01:54 PM (8/DeP)

349 "Perry's opt-out in Texas was for philosophical or religious reasons
and required documentation on the part of the parents for conscientious
objection. Try putting that on your kid at the public school."

What does that mean, astroturf?

It means nothing. If a parent says they do not agree with the vaccine, they get the form easily, sign it, and it's freaking done. It won't burden the child except... that they are more likely to get cancer or mumps or whatever.

"Google Gardasil deaths"

LOL. Screw off, kook. Google "fire doesn't melt steel" and "moon landing faked". Better yet, Google "astroturf" and "concern troll".

Perry's a terrific governor with by far the best record of all the candidates running. This HPV issue is such a tiny sideshow. His immigration issues are at least a legitimate policy goof.

Posted by: Dustin at September 13, 2011 01:55 PM (fF625)

350 I do know that Ace is now tweeting "Fucking" so I will never again hesitate to use it here.

Posted by: dagny at September 13, 2011 01:55 PM (cdzG0)

351 Yeah, well on this one I'm not a libertarian. Get the fucking vaccine to keep ME and MINE safe.

I tell you what asshole. You get your kids the vaccination. Then they will be safe. No need to tell me what to do with me and mine M-KAY.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at September 13, 2011 01:55 PM (0q2P7)

352 Bachmann is never going to be president but if Perry can't get the narrative focused on his strengths instead of crazy shit like this, he won't be either.Two debates in a row. When is he finally going to bring his A game? Does he have an A game?
Honestly, when it comes to debates I don't give a shit. I just don't. I don't know why anyone cares. I never have. Obviously I'm in the minority here but that's just how I feel.
I know what Romney is and I know what Perry is.
Newt's the best debater and I don't want him to be president.

Posted by: eleven at September 13, 2011 01:56 PM (7DB+a)

353 341
Michele Bachmann never said Gardasil caused autism. She said it never
should've been mandated for all 11-year-old girls in the State of Texas
by a leader who wants to become President on the GOP ticket...
Video, Gardasil in Presidential Debate

"There’s a woman who came up crying to me tonight after the debate. She
said her daughter was given that vaccine. She told me her daughter
suffered mental retardation as a result of that vaccine."

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 13, 2011 01:57 PM (o2lIv)

354 "
Bachmann's problem is that she needed more experience before becoming a
presidential candidate. She is pretty much positioning herself as an
also-ran forever.


Posted by: Mr_Write at September 13, 2011 01:53 PM (VJUQK)"
Well said. It's too late now. I won't vote for her except against a truly awful democrat. She is just too desperate and dishonest.I don't even think she's qualified to be in congress. I question 100% of her life story now. This kind of fear tactic is so over the top and unfair that it burns her credibility with me completely.I trust Romney more than I trust Bachmann. I trust that douche Hunstman more.

Posted by: Dustin at September 13, 2011 01:57 PM (fF625)

355 So it is wrong to require any vaccinations?

Ya know, I probably used to be on your side of thinking, and my kids get vaccinations including flu shots, and I understand highly communicable diseases but the more I think about it, what is the difference between obamacare individual mandates and this. Oh, wait there's and OPT-OUT, (RON PAUL!).

So yes, I have come to the conclusion, it is wrong for the govt to require them. But I also think its right for schools or doctors or whoever to make their decisions based on what decisions some people might make.


Posted by: Guy Fawkes at September 13, 2011 01:58 PM (PEwFJ)

356 You can't have only part of the population getting vaccinated.

Oh and we do partial vaccination based on need all the time in the country. Hep B, Yellow Fever, just to name a couple.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at September 13, 2011 01:58 PM (0q2P7)

357 It's kind of hard to bring your A-game when you get thirty seconds to answer the ankle bites of six Yorkies and a Poodle. I like forward to the inevitable one-on-one Battle-of-the-Hair® debate between Perry and Romney.

Posted by: Randy Old Goat at September 13, 2011 01:59 PM (8/DeP)

358 Palin did not endorse the Devil Vaccine line, which was delivered after the debate, not during. She objected to Perry's cronyism.What's with all the conflating of Palin and Bachmann on this fail?
Posted by: arhooley at September 13, 2011 01:12 PM (GXgac)
No, no, no, you don't get to disassociate the two on this. Bachmann's very blatant assertion is that the Gardasil vaccine very specifically causes mental retardation. That's her claim, and the accusation is that Perry, through his EO, is directly to blame for any and all fallout caused by the vaccinations, i.e. Rick Perry has caused children to become mentally retarded.
Sarah Palin doesn't skate just because she's taking the correlated argument, "Rick Perry did it because he got paid to do it." The underlying accusation still remains - Perry caused retardation in children. Palin's just reinforcing that Perry did it so he could line his pockets / help out his friends. It's as insidious a charge as could be found anywhere in the nutroots blogosphere. She rightfully DESERVES to get called out on that shit.

Posted by: Vyceroy at September 13, 2011 01:59 PM (mqy6N)

359 This is why I refuse to drink milk that's been "fortified" with Vitamin A D. Fortified? Really? How about "fortified" with anti-American, communist so-called "vitamins". Really? Vitamin A? Vitamin D?

What kind of fake, hollywood bullshit is this?

Why not just call it Vitamin Awesome, or HealthFactor2000?

You think I'm stupid? What kind of scientific name is "Vitamin A"?

I'm not falling for this unobtainium bullshit.

They think we're so stupid they don't even bother with realistic sounding names.

Flouride at least sounds scientific.
And vaccinate? Doesn't that word just sound evil? It's something you do to your dogs - not to children.

Hell, Brawndo sounds more scientific than "Vitamin A".

I'm not falling for this bullshit. And I think being half-blind, losing a few teeth, and an occasional bout of cripplingly painful Rickets is a small price to pay.
Freeeedddoooommmm!!!

Posted by: CrazyBitch at September 13, 2011 02:00 PM (QcFbt)

360 I agree with Eleven that Newt is by far the best debater. I really enjoy watching him up there. I would watch that as a TV show, if they could mix that up with a few clever folks from different POVs and force them to not interrupt eachother.

Anyway, Perry did pretty well this time. He improved quite a damn bit. And he's got the best arguments.

The idea that Perry needs to bring some kind of super slick A game is from political junkies and Romney fans who think that's what America needs. They are dead wrong. America needs a pleasant and responsible leader who can get stuff done. That's why Perry's leading the pack.

Debates are very interesting. They are NOT contests for the nomination. They are ways to learn about candidates. They will NOT decide the contest except in extreme situations.

If you think elections are a gameshow, where contestants compete in debates, you are mistaken. Perry's eleven years of fiscal conservatism is the real contest. It's too late for his competitors to beat him. Perry can, of course, beat himself by screwing up.

Interestingly, I think one way Perry could really screw up is by trying too hard to beat Romney at a game Romney is brilliant at. Just because Romney is very sharp doesn't mean he's what voters want.

Posted by: Dustin at September 13, 2011 02:01 PM (fF625)

361 I'll say this: Michelle has truly gone off into Twilight Zone territory with this. But she's not alone: I find the entire "controversy" over government mandated vaccines odd.

Requiring school kids to get vaccines is a threat to liberties? Who Knew??

The way Bachmann is now spiraling out of control is a natural outgrowth of this odd "controversy."

Posted by: CoolCzech at September 13, 2011 02:01 PM (oYb6f)

362 242 That's not true. I'm in a Medical Unit in the USNR also and if you bring a letter in from your civilian job or Doc that you had the vaccine we put that in your Medical Record and your good to go.
Yeah, thatworks great, if you're in a well-run, well managed, organized reserve center that announces the vaccines the month beforehand. If you're not, well, you either have the documentation by Sunday afternoon or you get the shot, period. YMMV.

Posted by: Grim at September 13, 2011 02:02 PM (gyNYk)

363 God help me, but I would probably vote for Newt, imperfect as he is, in a heartbeat. He'd probably have the economy turned around in 2-3 years just like he did in the '90s. As it is, none of this off-topic crap (where topic = the economy) concerns me about Perry.

Posted by: Randy Old Goat at September 13, 2011 02:03 PM (8/DeP)

364 If you're not, well, you either have the documentation by Sunday afternoon or you get the shot, period.

Yeah for the last 7 years I have found some way to get a TDAP every year. I should be immune to tetanus for life.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at September 13, 2011 02:04 PM (0q2P7)

365 I doubt Palin absorbed Bachmann's argument well enough to understand her support for it (by providing a motive) would bolster the insane and nasty 'Perry makes little girls retarded' BS.

But Perry had a great rebuttal. Those who think his EO was bought for $5000 need to produce some hard evidence. That's a damn harsh charge, and I don't think it's true.

It is true that companies hire staff for lobbying roles. That's true for Palin's staff too. It really is a lame situation. Perry had an aide leave and work for Merck. But that's not enough to claim he's a crony capitalist, and it's pretty screwy to say Texas has some kind of epidemic of crony capitalism.

Such charges made glibly without evidence really piss me off. Just bring your case and make it like an adult. It turns out there is no case against Perry on this issue. It's just lies.

The only real result is that I am far less likely to support anyone who is cool with the lying.

Posted by: Dustin at September 13, 2011 02:05 PM (fF625)

366 355
Ya know, I probably used to be on your side
of thinking, and my kids get vaccinations including flu shots, and I
understand highly communicable diseases but the more I think about it,
what is the difference between obamacare individual mandates and this.
Oh, wait there's and OPT-OUT, (RON PAUL!).So yes, I have come to
the conclusion, it is wrong for the govt to require them. But I also
think its right for schools or doctors or whoever to make their
decisions based on what decisions some people might make.


The difference is that you could be spreading diseases that have the potential to endanger lives. Before vaccines, the threat of these diseases (among other things) meant that a longer lifespan was not a guarantee. Forced quarantine was once a practice here and I do understand why we want to encourage outbreaks. It is dangerous.

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 13, 2011 02:06 PM (o2lIv)

367 This is what Palin said:"I'm getting kind of a kick out of this," Palin said, claiming that the
day after she brings up an issue, she notices the candidates adopt that
issue in their stump speeches. "It's like come on candidates, it's about
time you started talking about that."
I don't see it as getting a kick out of the attention she receives every time she's on Greta's show.
Is this is the quote everyone in talking about?

Posted by: sig at September 13, 2011 02:07 PM (0GV9m)

368 Oh well....I needed a concrete reason to cross Bachmann off the list. This qualifies. The left thinks conservatives are stupid -- you just proved them right. Thanks for that, Michelle.

Posted by: Cornfed at September 13, 2011 02:07 PM (BcYZo)

369 The nut cases who demagogue vaccines are even worse than the Truthers because the latter merely delude themselves and the gullible, while the former represent a genuine threat to public health.

Forget Bachmann, she has proved herself a complete and utter idiot. Let's hope Minnesotans can come up with a sane Republican to primary her and get away from the halls of Congress and into some institution where she can get the help she so desperately needs.

Posted by: Will Folks at September 13, 2011 02:09 PM (VfmLu)

370 The difference is that you could be spreading diseases that have the potential to endanger lives.

And for a highly infectious disease you have a good point. For HPV I would suggest that if your lifestyle places *YOU* at risk, that *YOU* get the vaccine and protect yourself. There is no good reason, in this case, why you should be able to mandate others get the vaccine to protect you.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at September 13, 2011 02:13 PM (0q2P7)

371 But, that doesn't change the fact that Perry is a jackbooted fascist thug for mandating it.

Posted by: Oggc at September 13, 2011 01:03 PM (yMeZt)
Right, it's like if a state mandated the MMR vaccination and didn't let parents to into letting their kids get Measles, Mumps, Rubella... etc.Oh.. every state does that... but the Executive Branch shouldn't have any control over the State agency that controls that, from within the executive branch, of which the Governor is the elected leader... wait, so the guy in charge shouldn't have any say?But he was FASCIST enough that when the legislature passed a bill opposing him he SIGNED THE ORDER OPPOSING HIM AND LET THE ISSUE DROP!How can you be more controlling, authoritarian and fascist than to let the will of Congress overrule you on something you want to do? I mean that... wait... he what? Really? That was his Fascist Authoritarian Evil controlling action?
HAHAHAHA... I get it now, you guys were kidding... man that IS funny. you had me going there for a bit... well done.You were kidding, right? using the authority and doing the job you were elected to do, acting as you think is right; and backing down when opposed by another branch of government... that's fascism now?What a weak watered-down pansy-ass sissy form of "Fascism" you've got here... this is "fascism" that the nerds in the chess club would find disappointing and sad.

Posted by: gekkobear at September 13, 2011 02:14 PM (X0NX1)

372 217 Alex the Chick: Preach it sister!

Posted by: rabidfox at September 13, 2011 02:15 PM (x/+/v)

373 BTW, I absolutely believe most politicians could be bought for $5000, sadly.

Posted by: Emperor of Icecream at September 13, 2011 02:16 PM (epBek)

374 Right, it's like if a state mandated the MMR vaccination

Why does everybody pull every highly infectious disease out of their ass to make a comparison here. HPV is not transferred by casual contact or by air. Quit comparing to diseases that are and pretending the comparison is relevant.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at September 13, 2011 02:17 PM (0q2P7)

375 Good thing for the long campaign season - these people weed themselves out given enough time.

This.

Think about this every time some chucklehead pronounces that the primary season has gone on too long and the Republicans should just settle on a candidate already.

BTW, I think this may ultimately help the hell out of Perry if he is the eventual nominee. If he is seen as trashing AGW / Carbon-mania because the causes of long-term changes in climate are incredibly hard to identify and isolate, AND trashing the bullshit "vaccines inadvertently give our kids serious diseases" which only applies to diseases for which the causes are incredibly hard to identify and isolate, we may finally have a Republican candidate who is seen as more true to science than the Democrat. Call me crazy!

Posted by: Mike Huntsman at September 13, 2011 02:22 PM (ggIyQ)

376 My daughter has had the shot and is still alive and kicking.
Michelle Bachmann used to be a favorite of mine.
This is some kind of tinfoil hat territory here.
She may lose her Congressional seat because of this. Brilliant.

Posted by: TexasJew at September 13, 2011 02:28 PM (+cOEs)

377 "HPV is not transferred by casual contact or by air. Quit comparing to diseases that are "

People can make whatever comparisons they like.

Most people have sex at some point. And HPV is so much more common than other STDs.

I think the social con point here is that parents can control their kids having sex, and opt out of the vaccine, and all will be OK. Even if their groom has HPV?

When the risk is developing a horrible cancer? It really isn't a good way to go, and if there's a vaccine against it, it's not so bad.

I admit you're right that it's different from getting coughed on and getting sick, and people get really weird about sex, even to the point of refusing a cancer vaccination for their daughter (as though that's a pro-sex thing to do).

But at least Perry's plan would have permitted folks to easily choose between getting the vaccine or not, and if they choose to get it, their insurance would pay for it because it was an opt-out.

This may not be perfect. It's easy to find points of disagreement. But it was obviously motivated for noble reasons and at least is understandable.

Accusations that this is crony capitalism and bribery are simply loathsome. Accusations that this is too much government intrusion are fair, but frankly are a minor quibble given the opt out. If you want your kids going to public school, there are a lot of intrusions to put up with.

Personally, I wish Perry had not ordered this policy and was glad it was reversed. But it's a little thing, compared to his overall record.

Posted by: Dustin at September 13, 2011 02:28 PM (fF625)

378 It wasn't just an aide. It was his Chief of Staff that lobbied for the drug. Perry to the extraordinary step of issuing an EO and was slapped down but that didn't stop him from continuing the battle to implement his EO. He finally and reluctantly conceded because it was the political thing to do. At the time he never admitted he was wrong.

Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney at September 13, 2011 02:33 PM (PCEZn)

379 You know who nthis helps?
Huntsman/2012!
Global Warming AND Vaccinations... SuperDuperScience!

Posted by: TexasJew at September 13, 2011 02:35 PM (+cOEs)

380
I fully support mandatory HPV vaccination. It turns out there's such a thing as penis cancer, and HPV is one of the causes. Penile cancer is just much much rarer than cervical cancer.

Posted by: The Bomb Diggity at September 13, 2011 02:38 PM (YmfP4)

381 This may not be perfect. It's easy to find points of disagreement. But
it was obviously motivated for noble reasons and at least is
understandable.

#1 I'm not an anti-Perry guy. Of the two front runners he's my pick and MB just removed herself from consideration because of the crazy anti-vaccine sh*t she just spouted.

#2 I'm not anti-vaccine nor even anti-HPV vaccine. I think they are great ideas. But as I explained above, just being a great idea is not sufficient cause to make it a government mandate, with or without opt-out. If we wander down that path there are A LOT of GREAT IDEAS the political class has for you and your kids. And I don't want that with or without OPT-OUT.

#3 The comparison of HPV to other vaccines is, yes with a highly contagious disease, the government, under the auspices of protecting the public health, may mandate you get vaccinated. But for non highly contagious diseases, they should let individuals gauge their risk and make their own decisions; Without mandates and opt outs. No matter how good an idea it may be, without a dire need to protect public health, it is just more nanny state decisions made for you. That is my principal opposition. We all do things that are BAD IDEAS from time to time. The BAD IDEA BEARS live in each of us. I don't want the government convinced it needs to protect me from the bad idea bears by making decisions for me that I should make myself. That is progressivism at it's very core.


Posted by: MikeTheMoose Camellia Sinensis Operative at September 13, 2011 02:41 PM (0q2P7)

382 Jez, the hysterics would suggest that this vaccine, much like with a dentist, must be take as a "local," i.e. a violation of your vajayjay, or something.

Posted by: Fritz at September 13, 2011 02:42 PM (FabC8)

383 No,Where a public safety risk exists, that the public cannot reasonably protect itself from. Then yes the government may step in and require vaccination. This is not one of those cases.
Honestly, I don't even believe that - what they can and ought mandate in that situation is quarantine. If you don't want to get the vaccine, you can be locked up - for genuine public health threats. Not only does that full out sort of business limit it's use to real actual emergencies, I just don't think anyone should be forceably drugged with anything against their consent.Ever.
Well, apart from as a part of an execution it doesn't mutch matter, or in the case of medicating and sedating the violently insane... But I can't think of very many ways worse than that to violate a person in principle.

Posted by: Entropy at September 13, 2011 02:43 PM (IsLT6)

384 I wonder if the Jude Law character in "Contagion" is based on Wakefield.

Posted by: Art at September 13, 2011 02:45 PM (Qpgvm)

385 Um, Ace, if you had been paying attention, you would have known that the critics of flouidated water were right.

Posted by: Chuckit at September 13, 2011 02:47 PM (rNmq0)

386 OK, I skimmed through more of this garbage - suffice it to say:
Michelle Malkin 1, Ace 0

Posted by: Chuckit at September 13, 2011 02:50 PM (rNmq0)

387 Michele Bachmann: Making Sarah Palin look good since 2009.

Posted by: Rusty Nail at September 13, 2011 02:51 PM (HwE/1)

388 Missed the debate but heard quotes from Bachman re the HPV vaccine. I am done even listening to her. If she thinks she can control her childs sexuality later when they leave home she is in dreamland. The vaccinations now, are for later. Yeah, I have a daughter and it was an absolute no brainer for me after I read some public health material. 3 shots divided is the dosage and it was notinexpensive butwell worth it to prevent cervical cancer, surgical interventions and maybe loss of fertility. If the disease is becoming more widespread in the population, odds will increase that the sexual partner will have the virus. Anyway, done with her. The Surgeon General or other high ranking public health official should be putting out bulletins about rates of infection and push for vaccination, but that might make Perry look good so don't expect that to happen.

Posted by: snowcrash at September 13, 2011 02:58 PM (T/g1q)

389 The Surgeon General or other high ranking public health official should be putting out bulletins about rates of infection and push for vaccination
Oh dear god right, cuz 'The Surgeon General' is never wrong. Look at the title. He's asurgeon, and a general. That's a badass motherfucker right there.
Nazis.

Posted by: Entropy at September 13, 2011 03:01 PM (IsLT6)

390 These Bullshit self analysis lies piss me the fuck off.

A number of our friends have conjectured, as have I, if I'm schizo, or if I'm Manic Depressive, or OCD or whatever. I switch moods almost instantly, however, one thing I admit freely, DOES fit having Aspbergers.

I chase forms, and I lash out at those who don't see the forms. Not always, I'm able to interact with people, quite well actually, but I ALWAYS count things, and I ALWAYS, when I see numbers, I do math.

I count words, I count leters, I count buildings in a movie, I count actors on a screen when I'm stressed, I count stuff. ALWAYS.

I don't have aspbergers, I simply use those things as a way to keep myself in order. My problems are mine, not some source of crazy, I can give you the reasons, but I won't.

You can flash card and crazy board me all you want, and I would be one of the most insane people you have ever met who didn't sadistically kill a weaker victim.

EVERYONE has their ticks, what I do is a slightly more complicated form of "count to ten" That is all, But in Jenny McCarthy, THE SCIENCE IS SETTLED!!!!!'s world that means that I'm a late diagnosis.

FUCK YOU! You excuse making rich pieces of shit!

I happen to favor opposing HPV, even when it doesn't cause cancer, like with men, YEAH! Men suffer that particular HPV, in fact they are carriers! Try being a stud, no matter how fit and awesome and well off you are, if you have a warted cock!

Toss in that the fewer warted cocks, the fewer cases of cervical cancer!!

I despise these fucking stupid arguments!

Posted by: Douglas at September 13, 2011 03:01 PM (YKOnu)

391 "Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS)
Guillain-Barré syndrome (GBS) has been reported after vaccination with Gardasil® . GBS is a rare neurologic disorder that causes muscle weakness. It occurs in 1-2 out of every 100,000 people in their teens. A number of infections have been associated with GBS. There has been no indication that Gardasil®increases the rate of GBS above the rate expected in the general population, whether or not they were vaccinated."

Posted by: davod at September 13, 2011 03:01 PM (C5U9L)

392 Yeah, well on this one I'm not a libertarian. Get the fucking vaccine to keep ME and MINE safe.
If YOU and YOURS already have the vaccine then YOU ARE SAFE so why do you care if ME and MINE get it or not?This is a government intrusion into our lives no matter how you try to justify. Why do we put up with this?Because the feds giveour own tax money back to us and we baalieve they are providing some service to us?What the states need to do is stop taking any federal money andreturnto original intent. You choose liberty on everything but here you choose death? Soon we will see Vax Police standing guard at grocery stores and football stadiums.
And how often doesit happen that well known medical facts are disproven later. I see this almost daily. Explain to me how a kid can be perfectly normal then after some vaccine, begin displaying signs of autism. Coincidence? Just because some doctor can't scientifically explain it doesn't make it so or not. How oftenhave we seen doctors unable to diagnose or misdiagnose an ailment? New discoveries are made daily that shed light on past 'inarguable truths' and bringnew light on things. Daily we see things we were previously blind to. This is by design.

Posted by: OscarMike at September 13, 2011 03:07 PM (FLFli)

393 Michelle Malkin destroys this "argument" here.

Posted by: Chuckit at September 13, 2011 03:10 PM (rNmq0)

394
"Yeah, well on this one I'm not a libertarian."
Situation based Libertariansim.

Posted by: davod at September 13, 2011 03:18 PM (C5U9L)

395 We've got a fucking communist sitting in the White House, and we're babbling on about a goddamned vaccine?

Posted by: Doug at September 13, 2011 03:19 PM (KxSdY)

396 The Passing of the Great Race became an immediate best-seller, with new editions in 1918, 1920, and 1921, multiple printings, and translations into German, French, and Norwegian.
It was reviewed favorably by Science, the journal of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, and by periodicals as diverse as the Journal of Heredity and The Saturday Evening Post. The editor of the Post commissioned a series of articles on immigration in a similar vein, and in an editorial in the May 7, 1921, issue wrote: “Two books in particular that every American should read if he wishes to understand the full gravity of our present immigration problem: Mr. Madison Grant’s The Passing of the Great Race and Dr. Lothrop Stoddard’s The Rising Tide of Color. . . . These books should do a vast amount of good if they fall into the hands of readers who can face without wincing the impact of new and disturbing ideas.”
The Passing of the Great Race did indeed fall into the hands of such readers, turning up in the personal libraries of some of the most important figures of the day. It was typical, for example, that Dr. Rupert Blue, Surgeon General of the United States, gave a copy personally to Sir Henry Wellcome the British pharmaceutical manufacturer

...
The effect was felt at both the state and federal level. Twenty-four states passed laws encouraging sterilization of those who were retarded, insane, or had criminal records.
Now, I know what you're saying. Trying to save little girls from cancer is nto the same as forceably sterilizing people because you think their genes suck!
But you have to understand that they meant well, and that all the modern science at the time supported the idea that this was what was best for everyone.
Just like we have to ban Big Macs. For the children. Well, y'know.. the ones that aren't retarded... or black... or fat.

Posted by: Entropy at September 13, 2011 03:26 PM (IsLT6)

397 There is no excuse for MANDATING where there is no spread of the disease by minimal contact. Smallpox, Polio, yes, spread by minimal contact.

Now that you have attempted to smear Bachman and Palin for this, HOW DO YOU EXCUSE HIS STAND ON ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION?

He won't be getting my vote, and many other conservatives, and more is going to come out about him, wait and see. Romney is appearing better than Perry, and that says a lot. NO border fence, support the dream act, but then deny he supports it! Benefits for illegals that CITIZENS don't get? NO to E-Verify? The more Perry talks, the less I think of him.

Posted by: ChillyinAlaska at September 13, 2011 03:39 PM (NYAde)

398 We need a mandatory vaccination against Obamatosis.

Posted by: TexasJew at September 13, 2011 03:43 PM (+cOEs)

399
"We've got a fucking communist sitting in the White House, and we're babbling on about a goddamned vaccine?"
It's not the fucking vaccine. It's about Perry acting like Obama by-passing the legislature by issuing an executive order.
Its about Perry's ex chief of stafflobbying for Merck and the mother-in-law of a staffer serving as state director of an advocacy group bankrolled by Merck.
It is about Perry misleading everyone when he said he meekly accepted the legislatures veto of his executive order. When he in fact he accused opponents as "shameful” spreaders of “misinformation” who were putting “women’s lives” at risk"

Posted by: davod at September 13, 2011 03:58 PM (C5U9L)

400 A little irony in play here: Ace promoting reliance on SCIENCE to knock down Bachmann on this complaint. I'm not saying he's not right to do so; he is; but it seems a little, uh, selective.

Posted by: Rex the Wonder God at September 13, 2011 04:58 PM (vahvH)

401 AceI believe you are covering this argument brilliantly. This is one reason I love your website, you us logic and facts, even against people on our side of the isle when they step out of line. It's hard to believe that Michelle Malkin is argueing for this BS. If Michelle still wants to shovel more BS I'm sure we could find her some work at the farm.

Posted by: Midnight Clad at September 13, 2011 05:03 PM (ldumo)

402
"It's hard to believe that Michelle Malkin is argueing for this BS.
Midnight. Maybe you need to read what Malkin is writing instead of relyingon what others say she wrote.

Posted by: davod at September 13, 2011 05:24 PM (C5U9L)

403
Not all vaccines are the same.Some dotheprotection they claim, other do more harm than good. I have never taken flu shots. I have known too many people who took the shot and then ended up with the flu. I the army you have no choice, hopefully they don't kill you.

Posted by: burt at September 13, 2011 05:33 PM (OzqQM)

404 This is the basic problem I have with Bachmann and Palin both: they show poor judgment and seem to be too easily swayed by advisers and whoever they rely on for information. Like they aren't sure what's true and wait to be told then dive in face first.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at September 13, 2011 05:33 PM (r4wIV)

405
I think it is time I relayed something I heard when I visited the Australian parliament in the 70s. Responding to another MP, the MP said words to the effect of "If the honorable member had attended school during the day instead of at night then he might be able to understand what we are talking about during the day.
Read what Malkin wrote.

Posted by: davod at September 13, 2011 05:36 PM (C5U9L)

406 Ace continues his crazy train triades against Conservatives. Bachman is nuts? Well he supports Perry and Romney who:

Perry - grants illegal in state tuition but denies it to Americans from outside of Texas. Apparently they don't wish to be good citizens. That's not crazy.
Perry thinks if you build a 35 foot wall illegals will buy a 36 foot ladder. But he'll protect us against our enemies? Cue the Twilight Zone theme.
Perry raised taxes, tripled spending, doubled Texas debt but he is a conservative? Yeah Ace also believes Ozzy Osborne is a great legal mind. But Bachman is soooo crazy.
Perry tells us its impossible to build a fence along the Texas border but claims he can fix the US economy. If you believe this who is crazy?
Acting as Al Gore's campaign manager in 1988 is the mark of a conservative. If you believe this you're crazy enough to believe in less than ten years Obama will adopt AND BELIEVE IN ALL OF REAGAN'S POLICIES. Well let's not taslk about that let's mention how crazy Bachman is.

Romney tells us Obamacare is unconstuituional and an abomination but that Romneycare is just dandy. Sound sane to you?
Romney tells us Social Security isn't a Ponzi scheme but describes Madoff as a criminal for doing the same thing to his clients. Does this man have issues or what?
Can anyone state one issue Romney hasn't changed his stance on at least twice? Would you deal with anyone or trust anyone who acted in this way?

The definition of crazy is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. So the RINOs who gave us Bush, Dole, Bush, McCain., Specter, etc are telling us Bachman is crazy while pushing candidates like Romney and Perry?

And I thought LGF was crazy as a loon.

Posted by: Molon Labe at September 13, 2011 06:01 PM (S7K8x)

407
Courtesy of Evil Slutopia:

10 Things You Might Not Know About Gardasil
http://xrl.us/bmdbp3

10 More Things You Might Not Know About Gardasil
http://xrl.us/bmdbpz

Posted by: Rondinellamamma at September 13, 2011 06:04 PM (165ZM)

408 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at September 13, 2011 06:23 PM (fyOgS)

409 385
Um, Ace, if you had been paying attention, you would have known that the critics of flouidated water were right.


Posted by: Chuckit at September 13, 2011 02:47 PM (rNmq0)

Did you bother to read your own link? I mean even just scan it to see what it said?

It said excessive flouride, in some cases, due to water and toothpaste, and rinses can cause a "cosmetic" risk to kids teeth; but no health risk. And was a strong contributor for the decline in tooth decay in the US.

This is the tragedy you were working to prevent? No, this is a bullshit claim that you were right... and it really doesn't support your "fluoride is evil" argument at all.

Of course someone would have to go to your link and read it to realize you were a crank putting up bullshit claiming it said something it didn't say... sad for you people do that on conservative sites.

Head back to HuffPo where you're less likely for someone to check your sources and call you on your bullshit Chuckit.

Posted by: gekkobear at September 13, 2011 08:57 PM (fQzLA)

410 All those innocent little children rounded up and forced to get a Sex Vaccine in the School-based Sex Clinic! Squawk!

School-based Sex Clinic! School-based Sex Clinic! Squawk!

Lunatic.




Posted by: Cornfused Yet Again at September 13, 2011 11:21 PM (AyzfE)

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Posted by: christine at September 14, 2011 12:40 AM (RkJ5/)

412 Wow, that's pretty verbose for a ridiculous strawman argument. I guess they taught more character assassination thanlogicat your school. Harvard?

Posted by: TC Austin at September 14, 2011 08:42 AM (IiNJ7)

413 1. I think Bachmann is wrong to use vaccination fears as a straw man.
2. I think vaccinations are a net benefit to society, for airborne/waterborne communicable diseases, even considering the individual risks.
3. I think Perry is dirty on the HPV issue, what with his ex-chief of staff going to Merck; oh, and the $5,000 is what Merck HAD contriubuted to him, anyone think if this had gone through that the $$$ would probably go up 10+x?
4. I hate cancer too. Does that mean that anything I do is morally correct? I mean, I hate cancer, and all.
5. Whooping cough, polio, small pox, rubella, are all highly contagious diseases, particularly among the young; they must just simply be sitting within arm's length of an infected tot to catch these diseases themselves. NOT true with HPV ---- not even CLOSE.
6. Any concerned parent can have their child innoculated for HPV. Good on 'em. Don't force it on my kids.
7. Did I mention I think Perry is dirty on this and that I hate cancer too?

Posted by: John in SA at September 14, 2011 09:13 AM (1kwr2)

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Posted by: lusefer at September 14, 2011 09:46 AM (l3F++)

415 Being stupid and wrong is NOT the same thing as lying. It is being stupid and wrong. I might feel better if I thought she was lying and knew better.

Posted by: HenryC at September 14, 2011 10:04 AM (3R5Fz)

416 I realize I don't really belong here, but I just wanted to say that I agree with Ace and I linked this.
If politics makes strange bedfellows, I guess medical advances make even stranger ones.
http://tinyurl.com/3avtru9

Posted by: Lynne at September 14, 2011 10:11 AM (HOP/4)

417 Wow are there an amazingly large number of stupid and/or uninformed people posting here starting with the nitwit who wrote this piece.

First of all Bachmann didn't claim anything about vaccines, she said a mother approached her saying the vaccine her daughter received caused mental retardation and nobody said anything about Autism.

The dimwitted Bachmann haters are conflating two entirely different issues; the now debunked claim that mercury in childhood vaccines is linked to Autism and the totally separate and well established medical FACT that a small percentage of children who receive vaccines will have an adverse reaction to them and some of them will be severe enough that permanent, life altering brain damage and mental retardation will occur.

This is not speculation, it medical fact and it's also why since the federal government passed legislation mandating certain childhood vaccines it also passed the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 which required a fee attached to every vaccine that is put into a federally managed fund to provide compensation and lifetime care for those severely affected by mandatory vaccines.

http://www.nvic.org/injury-compensation.aspx

The woman who approached Bachmann is probably mother to a child who had a severe reaction to a vaccine and suffered permanent damage.

Posted by: Paul at September 14, 2011 11:18 AM (aDdQH)

418 What a fantastic and well-researched post.
I have been arguing for about 5 years now that many of these so-called "right-wingers" are not true conservatives. They are emotional conservatives. They, on most issues, side with the right but on issues that pull at their hearts, their true inner liberal comes out.
You want to know how to immediately expose the faux-intellectual crowd on the right? Ask them about immigration. These are the very same poser conservatives who argue that an elite group of gov't officials should be deciding exactly how many people can immigrate here and from where each year. Talk about central planning! These people believe they can legislate the movements of millions of people and then wonder why we have 10 million illegal aliens in our country? These same people say that the fed gov't is too incompetent to command and control our economy but then, contradicting Adam Smith, Friedman and Nozick (as well as most other great economists) hands over the reigns to people like Ted Kennedy? It's utterly asinine.
Yes, the gov't has a duty to secure our border, which they could easily do. But this idea that people who come here, even illegally, are these horrible evil law breakers is un-American, xenophobic, leftist at its core, demagogic and contemptuous in the extreme, when most of these immigrants risk life and limb to come to the USA because they believe it's the greatest nation on the earth and simply seek a better life.
True conservatives, like Rubio, Perryand Jon Kyl, understand this. Posers like Malkin, Romney, Bachmann etc are simply taking the same democrat position that defined them on immigration in the 1800s.
How history repeats itself and what a disgrace for the GOP.

Posted by: Mark in DC at September 14, 2011 11:53 AM (UpqXH)

419 I know someone personally who believes that vaccinations cause autism as well as ADHD. I think you projecting some sort of evil agenda on them is dumb as hell. They're just scared, paranoid and ignorant. They don't need evidence for their beliefs, like Christians they just believe what feels best.

Posted by: Nav at September 14, 2011 12:09 PM (iDZRQ)

420 "like Christians they just believe what feels best"
Yeah, Christians don't base their beliefs on 2000 years of divinly revealed truth, written down for all to read, by numerous men that amazingly does not have a single contradiction.
What a moronic comment. But not surprised that you didn't provide any "evidence for your beliefs" you hypocrite.

Posted by: Mark in DC at September 14, 2011 12:30 PM (UpqXH)

421 Mark- The bible is chock full of contradictions.

Posted by: Cornfused Yet Again at September 14, 2011 12:50 PM (AyzfE)

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Posted by: dby54muc9e at September 14, 2011 12:59 PM (Co+CW)

423 "Mark- The bible is chock full of contradictions."
Not a SINGLE violation of the principle of contradiction according to the rules of logic exists within the whole of all 66 books of the bible, which includes both the OT and NT. And this has been verified by some of the brightest philosophers and theologians living and from antiquity.
Look up RC Sproul for more validation on this subject.

Posted by: Mark in DC at September 14, 2011 01:16 PM (UpqXH)

424 Bachmann looks like the nut she is..shrill, silly and dumb.

I am with you Ace.

Posted by: ford the IINO. Independent in name only at September 14, 2011 01:31 PM (Ki7fm)

425 Bachmann's lunatic ramblings about mental retardation really do help Perry in more ways than one. Not only does it show how Bachmann is just a nut, which costs her support, but it takes the spotlight off the corporate cronyism charge which is where the real issue lies. Whatever the real amount of contributions from Merck that Perry received (and $5,000 was less than the amount actually contributed), Perry's chief of staff was a Merck lobbyist and making vaccines mandatory is an excellent way to boost the bottom line. Playing nice with Merck was far more likely a reason for the mandate than Perry's always siding with life.

Posted by: Irony Abounds at September 14, 2011 01:43 PM (XJq8s)

426 "Michelle Bachmann is desperate. She's an ambitious, egotistical woman who started running for President just two short years after she first ran for Congress."
Whoa, we wouldn't want to have two presidents in a row like that!

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Posted by: bsdbsn at September 15, 2011 05:22 AM (UUR7d)

429 Wakefield committing fraud in the autism study does not prove that vaccines are safe. The Feds have paid out millions in damages through the http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/index.html

It falls to the consumer to protect themselves as best they can - the record of the Feds is not something I would bet my life on, so, read the labels, what you don't know CAN hurt you. For example, did you know that children should be tested for egg allergies before having a shot grown in egg media? Did you Dr. ask you before giving your child a shot?

Don't leap over the edge into conspiracy theories, but research and knowledge can help prevent tragedies for your family, whether from shots, pesticides, household cleaners, construction materials, or fabric treatments. Many of the everyday things around us are properly classified as poison - do you best to limit the dose when you can and increase your chances for long-term health. Take proper precautions, and learn before your are injured.

Posted by: Sashland at September 15, 2011 07:22 PM (UT4st)

430 Thank you ACE for posting the truth.
Bachmann is a real piece of work!!! What you are seeing is a woman that either makes things up or IF she was told what she said from 'some woman about her child".....Michele does not check it out, does not BOTHER to get a name. Michele is thus into passing on gossip. If that is not the case then Michele Bachmann is a freaking LIAR! Are you listening Bachmann you are a disgrace!!!!!!!!!!
The thing is it is not about who she is attacking, this goes way beyond that. It is about what she is doing, how she is doing it and that she will not stop. NO facts, only gossip and or lies. She disgusting!!!
She is hurting our party by doing this. Conservatives/ Republicans are supposed to be better then lies and pushing gossip like this. That is what the left does.

Perry is awesome and he will survive her lie, but she will not.

Posted by: Wild Thing at September 17, 2011 05:39 PM (VHoco)






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