Romney: I Vow I Will Not Abolish Social Security

Camp Romney is pretty thrilled about this exchange. While Perry never said he'd abolish Social Security, or had any plans to, Romney made it clear he wouldn't (hint, hint), and his campaign is now putting out the word that "The Perry Plan," as they dub it, is to abolish the program.

Eh, politics isn't beanbag. Still, I don't know how you convert a Romney statement about not abolishing Social Security into a statement by Perry that he would.

He didn't say that. Romney's just kind of... makin' stuff up.


Debate Wrap-Up: On my end, I'm disappointed in Perry. I thought his chops were better than this. It's not that he did bad, per se.

However, here's what I had in mind: Perry would do inarguably well and seal the deal.

He did not do that. He did okay. But "okay" means he hasn't knocked anyone out, nor convinced any leaners, nor impressed anyone (as Bachmann did, and Cain before that) into thinking "Oh, who's this guy?"

There are certain expectations associated with being a front-runner. Ideally, a true front-runner should live up to those expectations, so that anyone tuning in, not knowing any context or horserace stuff, would just guess that person was the front-runner.

I don't think he did that. He was mediocre. Not actually bad, but I'm pretty sure I speak for most people when I say he failed to wow anyone. Actually, who knows, maybe someone was wowed, but I think those already supporting him were expecting some doubles and homeruns.

The fact is that Romney is simply a better debater -- which actually surprised me. I always knew Romney was good; I just expected Perry to match that level. He didn't.

In fact, Newt Gingrich was also better than Perry, and Rick Santorum continues to perform well in these too. He was also better.

The primary fight goes on, as it did in 2008, with no one really grabbing the prize and putting the contest away (as Bush did in 2000, and Reagan did in 1980). Anyone supporting another candidate must be pleased by that, but I was really hoping for Perry to emerge as the clear choice.

Didn't happen.

Fred Bauer seems to have watched the same debate I did.

Posted by: Ace at 09:51 PM



Comments

1 No worries, Mitt. The plan will abolish itself... like all Ponzi schemes.

Posted by: Brock O'Bama at September 07, 2011 09:52 PM (/WZ6r)

2 you know who this benefits... Democrats. Thanks Romney, you dickhead

Posted by: Frank G at September 07, 2011 09:53 PM (1rPxL)

3 He has to lie. He lost the debate

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 09:53 PM (t2cEH)

4 Dear Mitt Romney:
Eat us.
Sincerely,
Rick Perry's fans

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 07, 2011 09:53 PM (vNpDB)

5 Obama is a stuttering clusterf*ck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: steevy at September 07, 2011 09:53 PM (fyOgS)

6 Chris Matthews is a lying douchebag

Posted by: Frank G at September 07, 2011 09:53 PM (1rPxL)

7 Matthews: "We need to embrace science like China and India..."

doesn't even realize they bother would never ratify Kyoto. Fucking POS

Posted by: Frank G at September 07, 2011 09:54 PM (1rPxL)

8 Gee, it's as if Mitt was ready to put this out before the debate even started

Posted by: mugiwara at September 07, 2011 09:54 PM (KI/Ch)

9 If Romney is going to run on Perry wanting to abolish Social Security, I'm sure the Mittens fans will condemn their candidate running on a blatant lie.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 09:54 PM (t2cEH)

10 MSNBC freaking out over Perry's anti science stance lol.

Posted by: emaugust at September 07, 2011 09:55 PM (E8wmM)

11 But what does Bill Nye think about Social Security?

Posted by: buzzion at September 07, 2011 09:55 PM (GULKT)

12 ABO except Romney.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 07, 2011 09:56 PM (ob4lh)

13 Too busy gargling balls right now to comment on Social Security.

Posted by: Bill Nye at September 07, 2011 09:56 PM (3zFBF)

14 Nice job, Mittster. Would you like to twist the knife in Paul Ryan's back some more, or would you prefer the Harry Reid "ask me in 20 years" approach?

Posted by: Lou at September 07, 2011 09:56 PM (0F3ej)

15 Perry took Ace's advice and carved out current recipients of SS, stating that they will still receive benefits but we need to wean off younger workers.

Also, anyone who tells you that the SS program is working is a big fat fucking liar.

Posted by: mpurinTexas, Evil Conservanatrix, supports Rick Perry, bitch at September 07, 2011 09:56 PM (J4Pnx)

16 Monkey science! The meme will be Perry kills..... and it will resonate and Perry will overcome his weak global warming answer.... not bad, but not as good as we all know it could have been....

Posted by: Yip in Texas at September 07, 2011 09:56 PM (Sh+fu)

17 Goddamn motherfucker.

Posted by: pforeman at September 07, 2011 09:56 PM (h7ayO)

18 Romney motivated me like a watered down warm Zima.

Perry I think comes out #1 for this debate. He's got fire, and fire is needed to win primaries.

I'm still leaning Cain though.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at September 07, 2011 09:56 PM (GE1+K)

19 Perry looked tired (and Jeebus, had every reason to be). However, I thought he did well.

Seriously, not another candidate on that stage was dealing with anything like Perry in Texas.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 07, 2011 09:57 PM (UOM48)

20 If Romney starts SS and Mediscaring, I might avoid supporting him at all. What's the point of supporting him if he's going to be a democrat?

Posted by: Ben at September 07, 2011 09:57 PM (tEGzl)

21 What muff garbage REPUBLICAN candidate runs on protecting Social Security?

Posted by: Apologetic California at September 07, 2011 09:57 PM (/zrTe)

22 Ok, Mitt, we know Huntsman is out.

We'll help you win the nomination (like we did for McCain) but after that, no promises.

Posted by: MFM devil on Mitt's shoulder at September 07, 2011 09:58 PM (R6j6q)

23 Arrrgh! Running to turn off MSDNC.

Off to bed for me.

Later, morons. And prayers for you Texans. Stay safe.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 07, 2011 09:58 PM (UOM48)

24 Is that the best you've got, Mitt?

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth is a Unionbusting SOB at September 07, 2011 09:58 PM (3zFBF)

25 Mittens went left of being a RINO with this attack. Hope his supporters are cool with supporting Obama Light

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 09:58 PM (t2cEH)

26 and fire is needed to win primaries.

OK well maybe if your name is Dole or McCain, you can be completely uninspiring, but this YEAR IS DIFFERENT!!

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at September 07, 2011 09:58 PM (GE1+K)

27 i'd vote for any of them but paul and huntsman

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 07, 2011 09:58 PM (eOXTH)

28 What the hell is "sosal security"? Am I the only one annoyed at how he says that?

(petty much? Yes.)

Posted by: AngelEm at September 07, 2011 09:58 PM (94jbd)

29 Can someone please give a beanbag rules refresher course?

Posted by: elizabethe at September 07, 2011 09:58 PM (fzZi3)

30
Was it just me or are Romney's and Huntsman's voices indistinguishable from one another?

Posted by: nightwitch at September 07, 2011 09:59 PM (11j7G)

31 angel my 11 yr old was wondering about that

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 07, 2011 09:59 PM (eOXTH)

32 Well, it's a scary proposition to a Liberal when you consider the Obama Administration's current and unprecedented method of operation is to bring about change by Executive Order.

Posted by: Fritz at September 07, 2011 10:00 PM (YhI7X)

33 Please let this debate put Ron Paulina and Huntsman out to pasture, Neither should have been on that stage.

Posted by: Katy Beth at September 07, 2011 10:00 PM (sspfj)

34 Didn't the Democrats refuse to do a FoxNews debate in 2008 or am I not remembering that correctly?

If so, why do we keep doing this to ourselves?

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at September 07, 2011 10:00 PM (nRTou)

35 If this is the best you got to attack Romney, I think he did great.

Posted by: ParisParamus at September 07, 2011 10:00 PM (kfz40)

36 Newt, as usual, had the best performance, but he's not a serious candidate.
Perry was up and down, but did well enough to not lose any ground in the polls.
Romney looked desperate at times, his support will likely take a hit from this.
The rest of them had occasional good points (except the Democrat plant, Huntsman), but nothing really memorable.
Effectively, Perry won the debate. I expect this will be settled long before Super Tuesday.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 07, 2011 10:00 PM (vNpDB)

37 loved perry's American's understand justice comment

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 07, 2011 10:00 PM (eOXTH)

38 Romney's campaign sent out a press release with this headline tonight: "PERRY DOES NOT BELIEVE SOCIAL SECURITY SHOULD EXIST." Like ace said, politics ain't beanbag, but that's just bullshit. GOP candidates should not be reciting Democratic talking points.

Posted by: Slublog at September 07, 2011 10:00 PM (gtDjX)

39 rev. Al on maddow's show
commentary we much

Posted by: garrett at September 07, 2011 10:00 PM (mhRlg)

40 Wow. Rachel Maddow is hot...

If I was into prepubescent boys. Which I'm not.

Posted by: Jollyroger at September 07, 2011 10:00 PM (/QMMK)

41 "If this is the best you got to attack Romney,"

Being a proven liar is weak I guess to you.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 10:01 PM (t2cEH)

42 slubdod

i don't believe it should exist

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 07, 2011 10:01 PM (eOXTH)

43 The Chilean Model

Why not?

Posted by: franksalterego at September 07, 2011 10:01 PM (7/sDI)

44 dog sorry typing one handed

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 07, 2011 10:02 PM (eOXTH)

45 Perry isn't going to abolish Social Security, it's going to abolish itself. I'm getting really really sick of being treated like an idiot because, glory be, I can, in fact, do basic math.

Posted by: alexthechick at September 07, 2011 10:02 PM (Gk3SS)

46 Crunch we munch.

Posted by: Al Sharpton at September 07, 2011 10:02 PM (R6j6q)

47 Gah! Give me an ONT! I need kittehs and videos and guns!

Posted by: Ima Wurdibitsch at September 07, 2011 10:02 PM (otfJ1)

48 frank i love how cain pronounced it

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 07, 2011 10:02 PM (eOXTH)

49 Rick Perry just lost the support of Lawrence O'Donnel. He's fucked.

Posted by: Joffen at September 07, 2011 10:03 PM (EPcuy)

50 I don't mind the candidates going on MSNBC. If you can play your best for a hostile ump, then you can play on the home field

Posted by: Jollyroger at September 07, 2011 10:03 PM (/QMMK)

51 Romney's campaign sent out a press release with this headline tonight: "PERRY DOES NOT BELIEVE SOCIAL SECURITY SHOULD EXIST."

What mittens needs to understand is that ain't going to win him a primary.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at September 07, 2011 10:03 PM (GE1+K)

52 33 Please let this debate put Ron Paulina and Huntsman out to pasture, Neither should have been on that stage.
Posted by: Katy Beth at September 07, 2011 10:00 PM (sspfj)
Paul unfortunately gets enough support in polls to qualify I think. Though I expect they've lowered their threshold so they can get him on. I'm almost certain Hunstman does not meet the requirements they claim he needs to meet to be invited.

Posted by: buzzion at September 07, 2011 10:03 PM (GULKT)

53 Politico saying Perry did pretty well, Romney probable winner. 2 man race.

Posted by: Lauren at September 07, 2011 10:03 PM (VKD8C)

54 27
i'd vote for any of them but paul and huntsman

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 07, 2011 09:58 PM (eOXTH)
All but, the Mormons, mitt and huntsman and the fruit. But I like the fruit.Clearly the group is conservative, except for the Mormons. They don't get it.


Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at September 07, 2011 10:03 PM (hXJOG)

55 @35 Yeah, that's ALL we got. Fresh out of arrows in the quiver and all that.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth is a Unionbusting SOB at September 07, 2011 10:03 PM (3zFBF)

56 If Rachel Maddow gave you a BJ, would you tell anyone?
Take pics or Vid?
Who thinks R. Maddow is dumber than a shovel?

Posted by: jake at September 07, 2011 10:04 PM (wSbVg)

57 i don't believe it should exist

Indeed. None of my retirement planning assumes it will when I retire.

Posted by: Slublog at September 07, 2011 10:04 PM (gtDjX)

58 53 Politico saying Perry did pretty well, Romney probable winner. 2 man race.
Posted by: Lauren at September 07, 2011 10:03 PM (VKD8C)
The exception proves the rule--if Politico says Romney won, he definitely lost.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 07, 2011 10:05 PM (vNpDB)

59 Perry's got to be so very careful about what he says about Social Security. People who depend on Social Security don't want to hear that the program's a fraud - they put money in it for 40 years and want to believe in it.



Posted by: Mike at September 07, 2011 10:05 PM (ptP00)

60 @56

Y
Vid
That's toolist toward shovels. Do you know how much they have silently contributed to America?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at September 07, 2011 10:05 PM (GE1+K)

61 Just deleted the debate from my DVR. You can't let MSNBC stank up your playlist.

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at September 07, 2011 10:06 PM (nRTou)

62 Sorry all you Romney haters, he was cool, calm and handsome. He won hands down!

Posted by: ex pat at September 07, 2011 10:06 PM (rsOPT)

63 Posted by: Katy Beth at September 07, 2011 10:00 PM (sspfj)
Paul unfortunately gets enough support in polls to qualify I think. Though I expect they've lowered their threshold so they can get him on. I'm almost certain Hunstman does not meet the requirements they claim he needs to meet to be invited.Posted by: buzzion at September 07, 2011 10:03 PM (GULKTAh, but are they real poll numbers, or are they acquired via 14 people voting 1000 times ?

Posted by: Katy Beth at September 07, 2011 10:06 PM (sspfj)

64 How is a vow not to abolish THE major entitlement program a useful prop to a campaign? It's almost as bizarre as promising not to abolish the CIA.

This is one of those things the marketing pros call giving the customer the sleeves of your vest.

Posted by: K~Bob at September 07, 2011 10:06 PM (83L9B)

65 mike the people that put money in for 40 yrs are safe

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 07, 2011 10:06 PM (eOXTH)

66 If Maddow gave me a BJ, I'd consider myself gay.

But I have to say, when she takes off those man-glasses . . . she looks like a really butch Progressive who took off her man-glasses.

Posted by: Boston12GS at September 07, 2011 10:06 PM (hvrPG)

67 7
Matthews: "We need to embrace science like China and India..."

doesn't even realize they bother would never ratify Kyoto. Fucking POS


Posted by: Frank G at September 07, 2011 09:54 PM (1rPxL)
Have you ever noticed that people who "believe in science" only "believe in" the kind of science that has to be believed in?Scientific methods? Mathematics? Nah.
Pure faith in pronouncements? You betcha.

Posted by: AmishDude at September 07, 2011 10:06 PM (T0NGe)

68 This AGW thing is going to be a big problem, unless one of the serious Repub candidates quickly puts together a simple, easy to understand explanation of why the AGW science and economics are crap. Repubs cannot run a good race if they are made to look like anti-science idiots and cranks. If Romney, Newt and Huntsman all are "pro-AGW," we divvy up the field into the intellectual-sounding guys versus the knucklehead-sounding guys. Even though the knuckleheads, in this case, are the correct ones, the issue gives the MSM the wedge they have been looking for.

Posted by: Z as in Jersey at September 07, 2011 10:06 PM (HISY4)

69 IMHO, Perry came out the winner. AGW answer wasn't all it could be ,but no one gets everything right the first go round. However, it is clear Willard already KNOWS Perry won because they are out spinning and pretty much blatantly lying. The fact checkers will be out in droves, the conservative fact checkers that is like Club for Growth etc. The LSM we already knew was going to spin and try to get the candidates to fight each other,but the conservative blogs etc. won't be roped into spinning for Romney, he'll come out looking like a liar which,let's face it-we already suspected he was anyway. Cap Punishment,SSN,CCB- all huge home runs for Perry, I also liked the predator drone for the border answer.One gig, but overall pretty good for me.

Posted by: concealed carrie at September 07, 2011 10:06 PM (BeOot)

70 hasn't the gov't admitted that it looks like Social Security will be running a deficit from now on and that the "trust fund" will be out of trust in like 25 years? Isn't that the general idea of "bankrupt"? Does Romney understand that?

Posted by: mallfly at September 07, 2011 10:06 PM (W6bJb)

71 54 27 i'd vote for any of them but paul and huntsman
Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 07, 2011 09:58 PM (eOXTH)
So, who would you vote for against them? Seriously. ABO.

Posted by: Ima Wurdibitsch at September 07, 2011 10:06 PM (otfJ1)

72


Who thinks R. Maddow is dumber than a shovel?

Posted by: jake at September 07, 2011 10:04 PM (wSbVg)
Actually, he's a very smart guy!

Posted by: Fish the Impaler at September 07, 2011 10:06 PM (Lt/Za)

73 Incidentally, is there any place on TV to get decent post-coverage? Fox is sticking to the usual schedule, and I assume that MSNBC and CNN are busy hitting all the liberal talking points.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 07, 2011 10:06 PM (vNpDB)

74
Paris come in to suck Romney's dick
Romney doubled-down on Romneycare and wants me to keep paying for a ponzi scheme, fuck that
Perry slipped up in that AGW response and look tired because he just came back from a stressful situation but yet it's not a good image.
I say a tie b/w Perry and Romney. No poll shifts. The one on the 22nd will be better with FOX running things,

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:07 PM (D6IZ4)

75 60
everyone loves shovels, I could not select another tool to disrespect.

Posted by: jake at September 07, 2011 10:07 PM (wSbVg)

76 I'm on the Perry bandwagon, but he had 2 or three answers that were rambling messes. I could just see the gears working in his head and nothing coming out of his head.
I can understand if that because his mind is elsewhere, but he needs to beat the crap out of whoever did the debate prep.
The AGW questions and the Social Security questions were expected and he should have had canned answers that were short and to the point.
I notice that when he gets flustered, he kinda pulls a Bush where he rambles for a little bit.
He needs to work on that. He's good and giving speeches, working crowds, and governing. Now he needs to work on his debating skills.
Romney is a capable debater and debates are probably the only way in which Perry loses ground to Romney. Perry's team need to make sure he's prepared for the next debate.

Posted by: Ben at September 07, 2011 10:07 PM (tEGzl)

77
Perry gets points for standing by his prior statements about SS, now we just have to get the rest of them talking the same way...
then the point becomes moot... but in a good way.
just like we changed the spending metric from "how much do we spend" to "how much do we cut"
if they want to make this a fight about entitlements we can win that fight by standing where Perry is but we will never win it by standing where we are now.

Posted by: shoey at September 07, 2011 10:07 PM (m6OUa)

78 So Mike he should lie like Barry and say it is all rainbows and skittles? Screw that. Tough times require a tough leader. That puts mittens the liar out.

It is about time someone tells the truth to Americans, Social Security is going on life support shortly unless it is reformed. I'd rather Perry run telling the truth that be a liar like Barak Obama and Mitt Romney.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 10:07 PM (t2cEH)

79 anthropogenic global warming/climate change is crap. Perry could find a hundred experts to say that.

Posted by: mallfly at September 07, 2011 10:08 PM (W6bJb)

80 Perry told it like it is with Social Security, either America can believe it or not. If we decide it's all skittles and unicorns then Perry will lose some people.

Posted by: robtr at September 07, 2011 10:08 PM (MtwBb)

81 71 54 27 i'd vote for any of them but paul and huntsman
Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 07, 2011 09:58 PM (eOXTH)
So, who would you vote for against them? Seriously. ABO.
Posted by: Ima Wurdibitsch at September 07, 2011 10:06 PM (otfJ1)
And I'll put my position out there. I want Sarah Palin to run; however, I don't giveafuck who the conservative/Republican candidate ends up being. They will get my vote. All day, every day.

Posted by: Ima Wurdibitsch at September 07, 2011 10:08 PM (otfJ1)

82 71 hmmm don't know anyone else going to join in?

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 07, 2011 10:08 PM (eOXTH)

83 Ah, but are they real poll numbers, or are they acquired via 14 people voting 1000 times ?
Posted by: Katy Beth at September 07, 2011 10:06 PM (sspfj)
They don't use internet polls to determine it. But they typically have a low threshold for invites, like 4% (?) maybe even lower. But I don't think Huntsman has even hit 2% in the polls they are supposed to be using to determine invitations.

Posted by: buzzion at September 07, 2011 10:08 PM (GULKT)

84 Perry told it like it is with Social Security

Well the problem does kind of self fix if we just run out of money and stop paying. Call me an old softy for wanting to take a more compassionate route.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at September 07, 2011 10:09 PM (GE1+K)

85 How'd Gary Johnson and Thad McCotter do?

Posted by: beedubya at September 07, 2011 10:09 PM (AnTyA)

86 Anyone who doesn't realize that SS is f**ked should be taken to the vet and put down.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT & Barbarian at September 07, 2011 10:09 PM (3TjSM)

87 Romney owned Perry tonight... And he proved he is the candidate who is clearly in the best position to destroy Obama
That is all.

Posted by: Winning at September 07, 2011 10:09 PM (OAzB1)

88 Mitt is an ass. He knows I'll vote for his RINO hairdo over the SCoaMF so he can get away with saying just about anything.

Posted by: dogfish at September 07, 2011 10:09 PM (N2yhW)

89 Sgt. Ed Schultz is the voice of reason against Larry O'Donnell on the MSLSD panel.

*drinks*

Posted by: stunned Moron at September 07, 2011 10:10 PM (R6j6q)

90
How'd Gary Johnson and Thad McCotter do?


Posted by: beedubya at September 07, 2011 10:09 PM (AnTyA)
They were at Hooter's enjoying the show!

Posted by: Fish the Impaler at September 07, 2011 10:10 PM (Lt/Za)

91 mpfs

lol....amen!

Posted by: phoenixgirl at September 07, 2011 10:10 PM (eOXTH)

92 I just lost a lot of respect for Mitt.

He should leave the interlocing fields of fire against straw men to Bambi we don't need that on our end

Posted by: sven10077 at September 07, 2011 10:10 PM (AEIYh)

93 @36

Excellent post, I agree. We did not get cut.

Considering how nervous we all were about Perry showing up, I think he held his own.

He needs to get better. I am surprised that he is not as quick on his feet as he should be for being a Governor, but the death penalty answer saved his ass.

Was that a plant question?

Coaching will help, he is a winner!

Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at September 07, 2011 10:10 PM (hXJOG)

94 Who is closer to the left?
Mitt or Huntsman?

Posted by: jake at September 07, 2011 10:10 PM (wSbVg)

95 so he can get away with saying just about anything.

Well he can't do that right now. He is just this close to getting bumped off. I guess we are going to learn how the party really feels about SS

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at September 07, 2011 10:10 PM (GE1+K)

96 "Romney owned Perry"

So that explains Romney's lie about Social Security. Thanks for clarifying that for me

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 10:11 PM (t2cEH)

97 they put money in it for 40 years and want to believe in it.

Oh fuck that shit. I've been putting money in it for going on 30 years now (brb weeping into my Val U Rite over how old that makes me) and I'm not going to see a fucking dime. Why is it that the outright robbery of my money is perfectly fine?

Posted by: alexthechick at September 07, 2011 10:11 PM (Gk3SS)

98 Mittens just lost me.

Posted by: Big Zesty at September 07, 2011 10:11 PM (66pgZ)

99 I'm almost certain Hunstman does not meet the
requirements they claim he needs to meet to be invited.Posted by: buzzion at September 07, 2011 10:03 PM (GULKT
Ah, but are they real poll numbers, or are they acquired via 14 people voting 1000 times ?

Posted by: Katy Beth at September 07, 2011 10:06 PM (sspfj)
They polled the MSNBC newsroom

Posted by: mugiwara at September 07, 2011 10:11 PM (KI/Ch)

100 Perry made an error on Social Security that Ron Paul makes with everything.

You can't simply state "Social Security is a ponzi scheme or broke" and expect independents, apolitical people and moderates to accept that.
You need to explain why. You don't need to go into too much detail but give the basics on why it doesn't work. Demographics, the baby boomers, IOU's, the fact there is no lock box, etc etc.
You can't be like Ron Paul and yell GOLD and expect people to follow. You need to lead them there.

Posted by: Ben at September 07, 2011 10:11 PM (tEGzl)

101 Well the problem does kind of self fix if we just run out of money and stop paying. Call me an old softy for wanting to take a more compassionate route.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at September 07, 2011 10:09 PM (GE1+K)
The problem "self fixes" if we keep paying. We still run out of money.

Posted by: robtr at September 07, 2011 10:11 PM (MtwBb)

102
Posted by: shoey at September 07, 2011 10:07 PM (m6OUa)
hey look it's mr. 4 more years of Obama to destory progressives!

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:11 PM (D6IZ4)

103 I coulda done better tan these guys. But, then I'd have to give up weed and midget porn, and that ain't gonna happen.

Posted by: Beefy Meatball at September 07, 2011 10:11 PM (bZ8J6)

104 Ed Schultz is defending Perry's Ponzi scheme characterization?

Matthews just said the Tea Party is secessionist? Shitbird.

Posted by: Blaster at September 07, 2011 10:12 PM (Fw2Gg)

105 Lol.

About to go to bed. There's Rev. Al. Debate we much?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 07, 2011 10:12 PM (UOM48)

106 MSNBC panel says Perry is "unelectable", and Chris Matthews is lacking the thrill up his leg.

They must be scared shitless of him. Why else spend an hour or so talking about how he's unelectable? If he's truly unelectable he's done, and you move on to the next target, no?

I smell fear. Nasty, cat-piss, MSNDNC, Progressive type fear. God, that stinks!

GO PERRY!

Posted by: Boston12GS at September 07, 2011 10:12 PM (hvrPG)

107 They polled the MSNBC newsroom
and six dead people


twice.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at September 07, 2011 10:12 PM (GE1+K)

108
"PERRY DOES NOT BELIEVE SOCIAL SECURITY SHOULD EXIST," read the headline of Romney's press release.

Romney adviser Stuart Stevens emails:

He has lost. No federal candidate has ever won on the Perry program to kill Social Security. Never has. never will.



Man, the Democrats are really going on the attack. Wait, Romney's a Republican? You sure?

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at September 07, 2011 10:12 PM (EeYDk)

109 Who thinks R. Maddow is dumber than a shovel?

Posted by: jake at September 07, 2011 10:04 PM (wSbVg)
Actually, he's a very smart guy!


Posted by: Fish the Impaler at September 07, 2011 10:06 PM (Lt/Za)

EH, he looks a little too much like a chick. I thought after the last Harry Potter film he'd finally start to shave or something.

Posted by: K~Bob at September 07, 2011 10:12 PM (83L9B)

110 20 Ben,

Ogabe ain't Billy Jeff.....Mitt may be a donk but Red Barry is a menshevik

Posted by: sven10077 at September 07, 2011 10:12 PM (AEIYh)

111 96
"Romney owned Perry"

I distinctly heard a "boy" somewhere in that sentence.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT & Barbarian at September 07, 2011 10:12 PM (3TjSM)

112 While Perry never said he'd abolish Social Security, or had any plans to, Romney made it clear he wouldn't (hint, hint),

Anyone remember that Mr. Show sketch with competing commercials between grocery stores?

"This week at Fairsley's Supermarket, Granny Smith apples are just 99 cents a pound. And unlike at some grocery stores, your child won't be kidnapped and sold into white slavery.

Low prices, no kidnapping. That's... The Fairsley Difference!"

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 07, 2011 10:12 PM (U9jjw)

113 98 out of 100 scientists will tell you that man causes global warming.

Oh, really now???

Posted by: The CERN sciency guys and glas at September 07, 2011 10:12 PM (AnTyA)

114 Had the debate on, but got called away and when I came back I saw Ed Schultz talking up Perry's stance on Social Security! I mean, he was impressed with it, seemingly, and was actually building Perry up. I thought maybe I stepped through a portal to a different dimension or something.

Posted by: Marmo at September 07, 2011 10:12 PM (Tm9Vp)

115 the "who's your favorite scientist" shit should disqualify that dick from any future debates. It was like asking Bush to name the Pakistani President. Strictly a cheap "gotcha". I would have turned it back on the asshat and asked him how many hard science classes HE took in college

Posted by: Frank G at September 07, 2011 10:13 PM (1rPxL)

116 MSNBC reporter: It seems that Mitt Romney didn't have anything good to say about your son. Do you have any thoughts about him?
Rick Perry's Momma: Why, bless his heart !

Posted by: Rick Perry's Momma at September 07, 2011 10:13 PM (lDd7n)

117 LOL, my liberal sister texted me that "Perry may have come out ahead in this one, but we expect to hone in on the AGW answer with new polls in the next one-it's never smart to go against what Americans believe in" hmmmmmmm...what new polls would those be? Last I checked most Americans do not believe in this crap and so even a raging liberal from the hallowed halls of the University of Denver thinks Perry won. Just a little prep on the AGW and he is golden,lol.

Posted by: concealed carrie at September 07, 2011 10:13 PM (BeOot)

118 You need to explain why. You don't need to go into too much detail but give the basics on why it doesn't work. Demographics, the baby boomers, IOU's, the fact there is no lock box, etc etc.
You can't be like Ron Paul and yell GOLD and expect people to follow. You need to lead them there.
Posted by: Ben at September 07, 2011 10:11 PM (tEGzl)
He did that at the beginning of his comments. He didn't go into to detail but he said it needs to be reformed.

Posted by: robtr at September 07, 2011 10:13 PM (MtwBb)

119 Now Chrissy is saying he heard a lot of anger and hate.

LOL

I'm tired and off to bed.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 07, 2011 10:13 PM (UOM48)

120 Maddow could kick Matthews ass. No question. She'd make him a woman, then use him horribly.

In fact, how do we know they are not going to each pull of their Mission Impossible faces and show they're really each other?

Posted by: Boston12GS at September 07, 2011 10:14 PM (hvrPG)

121 Romney won tonight. Perry needs to get it together.

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at September 07, 2011 10:14 PM (KxADM)

122 Romney is Obama Lite. A vote for him is a vote for Barak Obama.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 10:14 PM (t2cEH)

123 You can't simply state "Social Security is a ponzi scheme or broke"
and expect independents, apolitical people and moderates to accept that.

You need to explain why. You don't need to go into too much detail
but give the basics on why it doesn't work. Demographics, the baby
boomers, IOU's, the fact there is no lock box, etc etc.
That's a fair point. I really do wish someone would hammer home that the lock box is a lie.

Posted by: alexthechick at September 07, 2011 10:15 PM (Gk3SS)

124 I liked Perry's performance but really wish he'd had a whole list of scientists that disagree with the "consensus" on AGW.

"I'm glad you asked. Over at Cern they've just done a really neat experiment called CLOUD..."

Dem heads would explode.

Posted by: supercore23 at September 07, 2011 10:15 PM (ZUFNn)

125 Good God, it's impossible to keep up with this thread.

Every time I post another 30 posts have snuck in behind me.

Love it. :-)

Posted by: Boston12GS at September 07, 2011 10:15 PM (hvrPG)

126 We have to shitcan Romney. I'm not wasting my first vote on that piece of shit

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 07, 2011 10:15 PM (ob4lh)

127 86
Anyone who doesn't realize that SS is f**ked should be taken to the vet and put down.



Posted by: mpfs, TPT Barbarian at September 07, 2011 10:09 PM (3TjSM)

It would take longer to get 'em all than it would to kill off Social Security in Congress. And we don't have the manpower.

Posted by: Concerned Veterinarians Everywhere at September 07, 2011 10:15 PM (83L9B)

128 Resist we much and carpool!

Posted by: Rev Al at September 07, 2011 10:16 PM (qjUnn)

129 O/T (sorry)... But does it piss anyone off that we JUST PASSED a deficit reduction plan that cuts something list $20 billion in the first year? YET... BHO is now ready to declare another "stimulus" package totaling $300 billion - thereby, offsetting the first (probably) 6 years of the deficit reduction plan. This is the "heavy-lifting" that Boehner accomplished!?!? Seriously!?!?!

How much time has passed... one month? 45 days? And we're already working out of a monumental hole. All these asshats need to go...

Posted by: Brock O'Bama at September 07, 2011 10:16 PM (/WZ6r)

130
83 Posted by: buzzion at September 07, 2011 10:08 PM (GULKT)
Thanks, I wasn't sure how they came up with who got an invite. I can't stand Paul. Cannot fathom how he keeps getting elected in here!

Posted by: Katy Beth at September 07, 2011 10:16 PM (sspfj)

131
98 out of 100 scientists will tell you that man causes global warming.
30 Helens agree you are a douchebag.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT & Barbarian at September 07, 2011 10:16 PM (3TjSM)

132 94
Who is closer to the left?
Mitt or Huntsman?
Well, you would have to look at their Temple Underwear.
They were both wearing it I guess.
We are NOT going to elect cult people!


Posted by: Billy Bob, the guy who drinks in SC at September 07, 2011 10:17 PM (hXJOG)

133 Asking to name check scientists on the spot is a ridiculous question.

Posted by: Serious Cat at September 07, 2011 10:17 PM (bAySe)

134 98 out of 100 scientists will tell you that man causes global warming.

And here I always thought that all that mattered was that one person was right.

Posted by: alexthechick at September 07, 2011 10:17 PM (Gk3SS)

135 Posted by: sven10077 at September 07, 2011 10:12 PM (AEIYh)

Nah, Obama (pbuh) is an old-style Bolshevik. There is nothing about him that isn't mainstream communist, or should I say "progressive?" After all, it's the 21st century; we are much too sophisticated to call people commies nowadays.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative)) at September 07, 2011 10:17 PM (LH6ir)

136 The "much" guy is complaining that Bachman didn't say anything "we could quote".

Shouldn't he be more worried about all the "much much much" shit he says that IS quoted?

Better to say nothing and be thought an idiot than to say "much much much" and make the question certain.

Posted by: Boston12GS at September 07, 2011 10:18 PM (hvrPG)

137 There's a line Perry can step across (he does need a better answer), but the Romney camp really thinks this is toxic or that playing up their defense of it helps them in the Republican primary, they are badly misreading the current electorate.

Posted by: AD at September 07, 2011 10:18 PM (wJHvU)

138 122 Dick Nixon,

Sorry disagree Mitt is a squish Bambi is driven....

Cloward-Piven is real

Posted by: sven10077 at September 07, 2011 10:18 PM (AEIYh)

139 What an idiot Romney is for doing what dems normally do. You idiot Romney, people watched Perry's statement, that's not what he said. This lying nonsense comes from liberals, it should not come from the repub side. Get your people straightened out; the opponent is Barry not Perry.

Posted by: johnc_recent_EXdem at September 07, 2011 10:18 PM (ACkhT)

140 Asking to name check scientists on the spot is a ridiculous question.

Posted by: Serious Cat at September 07, 2011 10:17 PM (bAySe)

Yes, but it's something he should be ready for regardless. He should know it's going to come up.

Posted by: Oily Taitz at September 07, 2011 10:18 PM (TUax9)

141 And here I always thought that all that mattered was that one person was right.

Galileo recanted. After being questioned by the inquisition.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at September 07, 2011 10:18 PM (GE1+K)

142 I'll vote for whomever wins the nomination, but I won't support mittens anymore. This ain't "beanbag" anymore. It's an existential fight.

Posted by: Big Zesty at September 07, 2011 10:18 PM (66pgZ)

143 Perry's next answer for the AGW should be "Go home and google "hide the decline."

Posted by: Lauren at September 07, 2011 10:19 PM (VKD8C)

144 agh: There's a line Perry can step across (he does need a better answer), but
if the Romney camp really thinks this is toxic or that playing up their
defense of it helps them in the Republican primary, they are badly
misreading the current electorate.

Posted by: AD at September 07, 2011 10:19 PM (wJHvU)

145 Who's your favorite scientist? God help us. Why not just ask Perry who should be on the cover of Tiger Beat this week?

Posted by: mpfs, TPT & Barbarian at September 07, 2011 10:20 PM (3TjSM)

146 98 out of 100 scientists will tell you that man causes global warming.

I don't give dang if man does/does not cause global warming/cooling/change. What is your point? It is another wealth redistribution scheme. Learn it; know it.

Posted by: dogfish at September 07, 2011 10:20 PM (N2yhW)

147 4! More! Years!

Posted by: Mittens at September 07, 2011 10:20 PM (KI/Ch)

148 Was it modern scientists or scientists in general? Because if it's scientists in general, the response is "Galileo. You must admire any scientist who refuses to back down, no matter if the rest of the world believes he is wrong and persecutes him for it."

Posted by: alexthechick at September 07, 2011 10:20 PM (Gk3SS)

149 "Nah, Obama (pbuhSCOAMF) is an old-style Bolshevik."

fify

Posted by: K~Bob at September 07, 2011 10:21 PM (83L9B)

150 Telling lies about Rick Perry is fun.

Posted by: Mitt Romney at September 07, 2011 10:21 PM (t2cEH)

151
if Perry is the person to say some hard truths about government dependency , if he will be the guy who goes out there and makes the moral argument against the Welfare State, i will support him despite prior misgivings, it's that message that i advocate and anyone with a voice in the media that makes it and makes well gets my undivided support.
(he has to stay that guy in office if he wins, or i drop his carcass like a hot potato)

Posted by: shoey at September 07, 2011 10:21 PM (m6OUa)

152 The guy on CNBC I think it was lawrence read directly from reagan's writings about social security and he made a good point about insulting reagan in his house.

when perry said ponzi scheme and stuck with it he's now going to have to walk it back cause all those seniors just won't vote for him period.

NBC is funny, talking about privatizing social security and the banksters profiting. it's scary watching these guys.

Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:22 PM (k1rwm)

153 It should be a primary requirement that MSNBC calls you "unelectable".

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at September 07, 2011 10:22 PM (nRTou)

154 From the official Mittsite:

Mitt Romney Wins Reagan Library Debate
September 7, 2011 Boston, MA United States

Romney for President Communications Director Gail Gitcho issued the following statement following tonight’s debate:

“Mitt Romney won tonight’s debate because he demonstrated that he is the only candidate in the race who can return the country to economic prosperity. Career politicians got us into the mess and it will take someone with experience in the real economy to get us out. Mitt Romney has laid out the boldest, most sweeping jobs plan ever offered by a presidential candidate, which includes 59 proposals to spur economic growth and 10 specific actions that he will take on his first day in office. Mitt Romney also once again affirmed his commitment to fixing and protecting Social Security for current and future generations.”

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at September 07, 2011 10:22 PM (EeYDk)

155 This is Mitts MO. He tried some crap with McCain and Huckleberry and Hucklebeery was so pissed he stayed in just to keep Mitt out after that.
Sneaky ass usually doesn't get his finger prints oin this stuff though lets his minions do it. he must of been pissed at Perry for something, maybe tonight, maybe just for stealin his thunder.
its early yet all candidates arent in I hate the Obama is a nice guy pander its completely wrong, stupid and serves no useful purpose.

Posted by: Concealed Kerry or submit at September 07, 2011 10:22 PM (tHnoW)

156 68
This AGW thing is going to be a big problem, unless one of the serious
Repub candidates quickly puts together a simple, easy to understand
explanation of why the AGW science and economics are crap.

Try: Greenland was green
before the first
internal combustion machine.

You might better explain global warming by Ted Kennedy. Asshole was blowing hot air for years. Now that he's dead, temperatures have stopped rising.

I waive all rights to government climate funding for this theory.

Posted by: MarkD at September 07, 2011 10:22 PM (iYBP2)

157 Romney will learn that lying about fellow republicans makes you and also ran. Bachman found that out.

Posted by: robtr at September 07, 2011 10:22 PM (MtwBb)

158 148 Was it modern scientists or scientists in general? Because if it's scientists in general, the response is "Galileo. You must admire any scientist who refuses to back down, no matter if the rest of the world believes he is wrong and persecutes him for it."
Posted by: alexthechick at September 07, 2011 10:20 PM (Gk3SS)
Wouldn't Copernicus actually be a better answer? Galileo's persecution was more about him pissing off the pope more than people believing his scientific studies were wrong.

Posted by: buzzion at September 07, 2011 10:22 PM (GULKT)

159 Anybody here read The Andromeda Strain?

Recall Levitt's Rule of 48 - "All Scientists Are Blind".

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at September 07, 2011 10:22 PM (c0A3e)

160 113
98 out of 100 scientists will tell you that man causes global warming.

Oh, really now???


Posted by: The CERN sciency guys and glas at September 07, 2011 10:12 PM (AnTyA)
Also, that Piltdown Man is real.

Posted by: AmishDude at September 07, 2011 10:23 PM (T0NGe)

161 Who's your favorite scientist?

Thomas Crapper. I do some of my best work on his invention.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at September 07, 2011 10:23 PM (U9jjw)

162 98 out of 100 scientists will tell you that man causes global warming.

Have them explain the last 4.5 billion years.

Posted by: t-bird at September 07, 2011 10:23 PM (FcR7P)

163 He didn't say that. Romney's just kind of... makin' stuff up.

Worse, Romney is handing Democrats their talking points.

Posted by: CoolCzech at September 07, 2011 10:24 PM (niZvt)

164 135 CBD I am saying Menshevik at best....I suspect if you got him stoned enough he'd use an inverted Leninesque argument that selling out Marx for the growth using the new economic plan to "promote justice"......

His thesis is either about reparations, the use of the profits from capitalism to advance marxian social justice, or the overt use of the judicial branch as a marxist force for wealth redistribution.....

He can't hide it forever

Posted by: sven10077 at September 07, 2011 10:24 PM (AEIYh)

165
I agree with some other posters that Perry needs to flesh out his statements a little more with some facts. He goes in good directions, but needs to be able to back up what he says. People will need to hear some details.

Posted by: Marmo at September 07, 2011 10:24 PM (Tm9Vp)

166 robtr at September 07, 2011 10:22 PM

Threadwinner

Posted by: Mitt Romney at September 07, 2011 10:24 PM (t2cEH)

167 121
Romney won tonight. Perry needs to get it together.

Yeah, he needs to quit governing a state that is on fire. And get his hair styled.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 07, 2011 10:24 PM (UOM48)

168 off damned sock

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 10:24 PM (t2cEH)

169 Mike the Moose asked me to do a debate wrap-up, so I did.

Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 10:24 PM (nj1bB)

170 Ed Schultz is defending Perry's Ponzi scheme characterization?



Sgt. wasn't defending the characterization, but countering Larry
O'Douchenozzle when he claimed that the Ponzi statement "basically ends
Perry's campaign" and that that's now all he's running on.

Even the Sarge
saw that LO was being ludicrous, noting that Perry's heavily running on
jobs and the economy (though certainly Ed doesn't buy into RP's campaign).



I guess even the lone brain cell in that fat head of Ed's couldn't tolerate all the stupid on the set and decided to act up.

Posted by: stunned Moron at September 07, 2011 10:24 PM (R6j6q)

171 130 OMG down here. down not in

Posted by: Katy Beth at September 07, 2011 10:25 PM (sspfj)

172 You are a dick Mittens.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT & Barbarian at September 07, 2011 10:25 PM (3TjSM)

173 Yes, but it's something he should be ready for regardless. He should know it's going to come up.

I was frankly astonished by that question and don't blame Perry's camp for not anticipating it. But he needs to deflect these bullshit questions much better than he did. He DID deflect them more ably earlier in the night, which made his hemming and hawing over the AGW gotcha all the more embarrassing and frustrating.

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at September 07, 2011 10:25 PM (KxADM)

174 Buddy Roemer just tweeted that Romney won and Perry lost.
Game over bitches.

Posted by: Winning at September 07, 2011 10:25 PM (OAzB1)

175 Here's Rick Perry's answer to AGW, the same one I give to my lib friends that trail off if I get too sciency:

I'll have more trust in the scientists weather predictions for 30 years from now when they can start accurately predicting next week

Posted by: mugiwara at September 07, 2011 10:26 PM (KI/Ch)

176 Yeah, he needs to quit governing a state that is on fire. And get his hair styled.

Life is hard.

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at September 07, 2011 10:26 PM (KxADM)

177 I was frankly astonished by that question and don't blame Perry's camp for not anticipating it.

You'd think the guy who got scammed so badly by wind farms would have an opinion ready.

Posted by: t-bird at September 07, 2011 10:28 PM (FcR7P)

178 The Perry clip at TRScoop about facing the ultimate justice is reeeel good.

That was a Reggie Jackson style, "way over the green monster" home run.

Posted by: K~Bob at September 07, 2011 10:28 PM (83L9B)

179 Two RINOs slinging twinkies at each other. No wonder the rank and file aren't buying these two RINOs. Romney is a corporate whore and Perry is just a whore.

Posted by: Molon Labe at September 07, 2011 10:28 PM (e36+G)

180
I'm usually with war but he's dead wrong. I saw a tie and yes a little bit dissapointed that Perry didn't do better but I don't foresee a poll shift except maybe Huntsman grabbing Romney voters.
the Life Is Hard reply though, kinda dickish

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:28 PM (D6IZ4)

181 176 WUDS,
Romney had a crisis of his own to deal with......


One his socks needed darned so it is "kind of the same"

Posted by: sven10077 at September 07, 2011 10:29 PM (AEIYh)

182 Wouldn't Copernicus actually be a better answer? Galileo's persecution
was more about him pissing off the pope more than people believing his
scientific studies were wrong.

Hmmm. Yes.

Of course, I'd go with Tesla just to make the liberals freak out that I wanted to build my own earthquake machine. Not that. I want to. Or anything. koff

Posted by: alexthechick at September 07, 2011 10:29 PM (Gk3SS)

183 All these people claiming Romney won--I'm not seeing it, and I watched every minute of the debate.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 07, 2011 10:29 PM (vNpDB)

184
Posted by: Molon Labe at September 07, 2011 10:28 PM (e36+G)
whos your candidate?

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:29 PM (D6IZ4)

185 Molon Labe,

Unfortunately not all of us have a godling to worship.

Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 10:29 PM (nj1bB)

186 My feeling is, Perry needs to talk about solutions to strengthen Social Security - not attack the system itself. The debate about whether or not we should have Social Security was settled a long time ago.







Posted by: Mike at September 07, 2011 10:29 PM (ptP00)

187 #174. I guess the science politics is settled, Al you fat fuck?

Posted by: Frank G at September 07, 2011 10:30 PM (1rPxL)

188 Run Palin Run!
That should be good for 200+comments

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 07, 2011 10:30 PM (ob4lh)

189 Watching the post-debate crapfest at MSDNC......they really do love Huntsman. And they want us to love him.

-100000 Huntsman

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 07, 2011 10:30 PM (UOM48)

190 >>>Galileo's persecution was more about him pissing off the pope more than people believing his scientific studies were wrong.

No, I'm pretty sure that other scientists lined up condemn him, their repetition of the state line being the evidence Galileo was blasphemously wrong.

Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 10:30 PM (nj1bB)

191 Hey,
Chris Mathews!!
Since you believe in evolution, were your ancestors Monkies. Chimps or Apes??

Posted by: jake at September 07, 2011 10:30 PM (wSbVg)

192
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 07, 2011 10:30 PM (ob4lh)
my sole reply: HELL NO

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:31 PM (D6IZ4)

193 188

Run Palin Run!

That should be good for 200+comments

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 07, 2011 10:30 PM (ob4lh)Heh. Gotta admire a moron who jumps in here with a paper plate versus a flamethrower.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 07, 2011 10:31 PM (UOM48)

194 Perry should have expanded on his argument by using Ron Johnson's
tactic on Social Security: "Money
Spent". He frames it as both an anti-D.C. and moral argument. That would have been a good follow-up. As for Romney, he's indistinguishable from a lib on this issue.

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 07, 2011 10:32 PM (o2lIv)

195 Perry was pretty bad. Really, the worst on the stage.

Newt was good. Huntsman was surprisingly good (but still a filthy RINO). Romney was good. Santorum is in fact a good debater. Paul and Cain did what Paul and Cain always do. Bachmann was pretty good, but not great.

No, Perry stumbled tonight. It was his first debate; maybe he'll get better. But he was pretty bad tonight.

Romney may become the front-runner again.

Posted by: Durka at September 07, 2011 10:32 PM (QjrRF)

196 If MSNBC's goons actually thinks that people that have been unemployed for going on three years now will give a fig about Perry's opinions of Global Warming and Evolution in 2012, if they're still unemployed, then they are even stupider than I normally give them credit for.

Posted by: CoolCzech at September 07, 2011 10:32 PM (niZvt)

197 The optics on that exchange are horrible for Perry.

You can try to spin it to fit whatever narrative will help smooth the cognitive dissonance that it was the supposed weaksause Mitt Romney who won out in the exchange with the supposed dirty and deadly effective fighter from Texas that is Rick Perry, but the fact is he slipped him the knife. I figured it would be Bachmann.

Don't kid yourself, the comment was fucking napalm. The media will eat it up and it'll keep on burning for media cycles.


Posted by: Uriah Heep at September 07, 2011 10:32 PM (KaHVv)

198 >>>All these people claiming Romney won--I'm not seeing it, and I watched every minute of the debate.

In terms of presentation? I think Romney clearly won.

In terms of policies, that gets into what you believed walking into the room before anyone opened his mouth, but I think Romney did a better job of salesmanship on his policies than Perry did on his.

Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 10:32 PM (nj1bB)

199 All these people claiming Romney won--I'm not seeing it, and I watched every minute of the debate.

Romney was there??? Was he the guy with the orange skin, crappy yellow tie, and weird eyebrow?

Posted by: Charlie Gibson at September 07, 2011 10:32 PM (R6j6q)

200 Huntsman will have us working our cores and blasting our abs in no time.

Posted by: Waterhouse at September 07, 2011 10:33 PM (odrIx)

201 Hey,
Chris Mathews!!
Since you believe in evolution, were your ancestors Monkies. Chimps or Apes??


Douchebags. I love that word.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT & Barbarian at September 07, 2011 10:33 PM (3TjSM)

202 185 Ace,

I'm curious did you think from a technical standpoint that was Mitt's main telling blow?

I felt like theonly solid blow he landed was that suckerpunch

Posted by: sven10077 at September 07, 2011 10:33 PM (AEIYh)

203 perry was underwhelming. I'm saddened by that cause I really wanted to see what you guys see and get excited about perry, didn't happen. Just another governor from texas.

and with the nbc folks talking about the texans slugging it out sounds like they see that too.

Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:33 PM (k1rwm)

204 Romney may become the front-runner again.
Posted by: Durka at September 07, 2011 10:32 PM (QjrRF)
Republicans don't vote for bald face liars if they can help it.

Posted by: robtr at September 07, 2011 10:33 PM (MtwBb)

205 When behind in the Democratic primary in 1940, Lyndon Johnson announced that he wasn't a pig-fucker. His campaign brain trust urged him not to do it, because no one would believe that his estimable opponent would in fact fuck a pig. "Of course they won't." growled Lyndon. "But just wait until that sonuvabitch denies it."

Posted by: Dick at September 07, 2011 10:34 PM (/q/kQ)

206 No, Perry stumbled tonight. It was his first debate; maybe he'll get better. But he was pretty bad tonight.

Romney may become the front-runner again.
Posted by: Durka at September 07, 2011 10:32 PM (QjrRF)

Perry certainly did not help himself. Romney does have one thing going him: he's polished, very very smooth and polished. Slick, even.

Perry really blew the climate change question; I'm surprised he didn't have a throw away answer for he must know will be a standard question.

Posted by: CoolCzech at September 07, 2011 10:34 PM (niZvt)

207 Perry needs to work on a good solid answer when presented with the lie that there is concensus among scientists about global warming.

Posted by: Flying Manatee at September 07, 2011 10:34 PM (jVdDe)

208 Perry: I'm here to kick ass and chew bubblegum and I'm all out of bubblegum
Palin: Bubblegums for bitches
Seriously, that SS exchange was bad.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 07, 2011 10:35 PM (ob4lh)

209 In terms of policies, that gets into what you believed walking into the room before anyone opened his mouth, but I think Romney did a better job of salesmanship on his policies than Perry did on his.
Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 10:32 PM (nj1bB)
Yeah he had me thinking about him again. Until the fucker lied. Sorry I just don't have the patience for it.

Posted by: robtr at September 07, 2011 10:36 PM (MtwBb)

210 Yes, people who have no job, no job prospects, no money, no home and no hope are going to think to themselves...hmmm, that Rick Perry doesn't believe in global Warming it's a deal breaker. Oh, would you like to come in and see what I've done with my cardboard box?

Posted by: mpfs, TPT & Barbarian at September 07, 2011 10:36 PM (3TjSM)

211 Romney does have one thing going him: he's polished, very very smooth and polished. Slick, even
After running for president for around6 years, he'd better be.

Posted by: buzzion at September 07, 2011 10:36 PM (GULKT)

212 Palin? She doesn't even have the courage to run.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 10:36 PM (t2cEH)

213 I think Ron Paulin won cause he convinced me the fence was built to keep us in.
Now I'm gettin out the dirt bikes and practicing my Evil Knevil jumps so when i escape the Lyin kINGS America I can jump the damn fence and besides the rents too damn high.

Reagan: Tear down that wall!
Paul: Tear down that damn fence!

Posted by: Concealed Kerry or submit at September 07, 2011 10:36 PM (tHnoW)

214 I'm done with the Palin stuff. Just yanking chains here.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at September 07, 2011 10:36 PM (ob4lh)

215 After running for president for around6 years, he'd better be.

Hell, he's been running for office almost continuously since 1996.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at September 07, 2011 10:37 PM (SY2Kh)

216
Romney may become the front-runner again.

Romney can easily capture the nomination and it was always a mistake to assume that Perry was a fait accompli simply by virtue of entering the race. Perry's my guy but Romney is a strong backup in case Teh Rickster doesn't make it. It's going to be one of these two guys.

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at September 07, 2011 10:37 PM (KxADM)

217 Yeah he had me thinking about him again. Until the fucker lied. Sorry I just don't have the patience for it.

I agree with you. Perry was ok, but this was his first debate. Mitt, still not sold on him.... too slick...

Posted by: The terrorist Hobbit formerly known as Donna at September 07, 2011 10:37 PM (zgEs1)

218 203
perry was underwhelming. I'm saddened by that cause I really wanted to
see what you guys see and get excited about perry, didn't happen. Just
another governor from texas.

and with the nbc folks talking about the texans slugging it out sounds like they see that too.


Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:33 PM (k1rwm)

Go away, curious/muffy/city gal/whatever. You don't care about "us guys." And shut the fuck up about "another governor from Texas." You're from NYC and don't have a "right" to discuss Texas politics.
GO AWAY.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 07, 2011 10:37 PM (UOM48)

219 209 Rob,

I'll back Mitt in the general but if he convinces me he is an evangelical moonbat my purse stays closed.

Posted by: sven10077 at September 07, 2011 10:37 PM (AEIYh)

220
I know it is hard to understand Perry's horrible grammer, but he did say SS was a bad idea from the beginning and it is a complete failure. He is an idiot.Half the Republican Party is on SS. More than half the Tea Party is on SS. And they don't consider it a failure when they cash those checks every month.
Don't blame Romney because Perry is an idiot.
In fact I have never seen a candidate completely get schooled like Perry was tonight! He can't debate his way out of a wet paper bag!!!
In fact, he should take a class in speaking English. He failed at speaking basic English!!! That is about the very worst performance I have ever seen.
Romney pitied Perry and tried to get people to lay off him. Perrylooked down andnodded his thanks, it looked likePerry was about to cry! Then he complained! You don't act like a cry-baby in a Presidential debate!!!!! Oh poor poor baby Perry, everybody is picking on poor little Perry.
Those big bad Presidential candidates should just leave the poor little crybaby alone!!!
Rick Perry is the worst candidate yet. Even Pawlenty didn't ever look like he was about to cry.

Posted by: petunia at September 07, 2011 10:38 PM (hgrmi)

221 "Mitt, still not sold on him.... too slick..."

And a proven liar to boot

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 10:38 PM (t2cEH)

222 Oooh, Before you get rid of it let me do Social Security like I did Freddie and Fannie. It is as tight as BarkeyO.

Posted by: Barney F at September 07, 2011 10:38 PM (XjzEc)

223 >>>I'm curious did you think from a technical standpoint that was Mitt's main telling blow?

It wasn't a main telling blow (apart from the SS cheapshot; we'll see how that shakes out).

It's that on most questions Mitt was polished and slick as someone said above. But not robotic in the sense that he's just reading from a script; he just has a lot of Debate Answer Knowledge Base and can call from it smoothly at will.

Who knows, maybe Republican primary voters will find that "Too slick" or something. But I don't think so. I don't buy that sort of loser-ish idea that you "win" by actually losing, that "voters don't like smart, articulate people anyway."

Romney's knife-sharp at this point, and Perry just seems like a guy who's very rusty.

I didn't even think Perry's pre-planned attacks were well executed.

Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 10:39 PM (nj1bB)

224
Posted by: petunia at September 07, 2011 10:38 PM (hgrmi)
whos your candidate?

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:39 PM (D6IZ4)

225 curious gtfo

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:39 PM (D6IZ4)

226

Posted by: petunia at September 07, 2011 10:38 PM (hgrmi)
Cute. They lie just like Mittens.

Posted by: mugiwara at September 07, 2011 10:39 PM (KI/Ch)

227 " Even Pawlenty didn't ever look like he was about to cry."

He did when, like Palin, he quit.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 10:39 PM (t2cEH)

228 Go away,
curious/muffy/city gal/whatever. You don't care about "us guys." And
shut the fuck up about "another governor from Texas." You're from NYC
and don't have a "right" to discuss Texas politics.
GO AWAY.



Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 07, 2011 10:37 PM (UOM4

you know he is another governor from texas, we had 8 years of a governor from texas and you know what, we don't need another 8 years of a governor from texas....

Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:40 PM (k1rwm)

229 perry was underwhelming.

Romney's been running for, what, six years. Newt's been talking on camera for quite a few, so, yeah, Perry's winging it didn't work that well. But I'm sure he'll never blow another AGW question.

Little bit of attention to switching to campaign mode and he'll be fine.

Posted by: t-bird at September 07, 2011 10:40 PM (FcR7P)

230 I finally watched a debate since Gov. Perry was there. I think he did fine. Youcould easily see that he is the candidate the moonbats fear. His best answer and death-ray stare was about his executing murderers and sleeping fine. Seriously, he could melt steel with that glare. Loved it. Like good wine, he will only improve with time. I saw no major flaw tonight, and know he was probably the most stressed after fighting fires, and received the mods attacks (like he said, a pinata). Ron Paul is helping the media in his attacks of Perry. The rest seemed to be fine and not mean-spirited towards him.
Romney was Romney (my second choice if I have to make it). Bachman knows her stats and should have a position on Perry's cabinet. They are still the top three on the first tier.
Newt is a smart man, although he is not presidential. However, he has his place on the stage if nothing else to inject facts and tell the liberal debate mods off. He had good points in that the Republicans need to focus on defeating Obama.
Cain was good, I like him. Huntsman was full of himself in his yellow tie to match his fake Charlie Crist tan (do not like). Santorum, bless his heart, a good man but needs to go.
Ron Paul? Crazy train. I would vote for anyone on that stage against The Wee Won, but would have a hard time voting for Paul.
I still don't know what McCotter looks like.
Did see brief moment of Chris Matthews yelping about science and us living in a Yahoo Nation. Good times.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky at September 07, 2011 10:40 PM (fNdyx)

231 See, what irks me about the "Ponzi Scheme" remark, and then saying Obama is either misinformed or "an abject liar" is... it gives the Leftists their talking points.

Of COURSE Social Security is like a Ponzi Scheme... but can't Perry just say the system is going bankrupt and leave it at that? WHY create a mini-storm over a stupid phrase, that detracts from the important issue?

Saying "abject liar" doesn't help him, either. Why not just say Obama is just plain wrong? "Boneheaded," even?

Posted by: CoolCzech at September 07, 2011 10:40 PM (niZvt)

232 Was Perry right in referring to SS as a Ponzi scheme? Well it is somewhat of Ponzi scheme in that it takes from one and gives to another...and so on...and so on.
But this is politics and SS is the third rail of it. Romney said he would preserve it but "fix it". He didn't give the BO camp anything that they could use in a general election campaign.
On global warming, Perry was technically right again. It really isn't settled. But his response was awkward, unsubstantiating, and awful. He was looking up mid-sentence trying to muster up a better response than the one he was giving. Surely he should have known he would have been asked this question. He obviously did little to prepare for it.
Sorry, but I'm still with Mittens.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at September 07, 2011 10:40 PM (0DGtF)

233 I'll grant that Romney sounded better--he didn't stammer through any answers. Appearance-wise, he wasn't looking so hot by the end of the debate either, it looked like the back and forth was getting to him to a degree, so I think that is a push between him and Perry. So, yes, he sounded better, but the particulars of some of his responses, especially the Social Secuirty low blow, will hurt him more than Perry being unprepared for the AGW question.
If the question about who won the debate is purely on did the best with their questions, who was the best debater, it was Newt, head and shoulders above everyone else on the stage.
If the question is will Perry be supplanted as the front-runner based on this debate, then no, no chance. A 2-1 decision for Romney, certainly no knockout, and I expect some of the body blows from this debate will pain him in the next one.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 07, 2011 10:40 PM (vNpDB)

234 What happened to the earlier belief that all Perry had to do was show up and not fall on his face? While he wasn't "spectacular" I don't think he was terrible either. We shall see..

Posted by: The terrorist Hobbit formerly known as Donna at September 07, 2011 10:41 PM (zgEs1)

235 Romney may have come off better tonight than Perry, but, and it is a big one- Romeny should have been all over this debate because he's been running for the office for several years now. He's had quite a bit of practice. He didn't though. He was bland, and really middle-of-the-road. I didn't get the the feeling that he had any serious this-line-and-no-further gut convictions.

Posted by: Katy Beth at September 07, 2011 10:41 PM (sspfj)

236
Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:40 PM (k1rwm)
listen bitch, Perry has improved Texas since he inherited it from Bush, and if you compare records, Bush was a better prez then Obama has been., so take your NY elitist attitude elsewhere

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:41 PM (D6IZ4)

237 Wow MSNBC Is Dumb
September 7, 2011 10:23 P.M.
ByJonah Goldberg
I dont mean that as an ideological thing. Theyre professionally dumb. MSNBC gets terrible ratings. Some of Foxs repeats beat MSNBCs prime time fare. This debate offered the network a golden opportunity to reintroduce themselves to many viewers (including me) whove come to ignore them for all the obvious reasons. Instead of offering something like an interesting, balanced, panel. They went with Al Sharpton, Lawrence ODonnell, Eugene Robinson and Ed Schultz, moderated by Rachel Maddow with extra commentary from a seemingly drooling Chris Matthews (I particularly liked Al Sharpton sharing his insights on what turns off moderates and independents). In other words they doubled-down on their MSNBCness. Anyone who was thinking that maybe they should give the network a second chance probably turned within 5 minutes. Liberals might respond that Fox does the same thing, except it really doesnt. They always have at least one Democrat or liberal, particularly for something like a Democratic debate. MSNBC couldnt even rustle up JoeScarborough? But even if Fox did, so what? From a business perspective Fox can afford to go with their strengths because they are a ratings juggernaut. MSNBC isnt. Its like theyre happy being a runt network.

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at September 07, 2011 10:41 PM (nRTou)

238 Little bit of attention to switching to campaign mode and he'll be fine.
Posted by: t-bird at September 07, 2011 10:40 PM (FcR7P)

This.

Plus: he needs to cool it with the phrases he chooses. Less is More, as they say.

Posted by: CoolCzech at September 07, 2011 10:41 PM (niZvt)

239 I wasn't able to watch the debate (no cable). However, given what I've read here about Romney's making stuff up I'm going to have to drag myself to the polls to vote for him if he ends up being the Republican nominee. And the people commenting here on his behalf aren't helping that any. Your boy is feeding the DNC talking points.

Posted by: niclun at September 07, 2011 10:42 PM (qypmI)

240 223 Ace,
Thanks.....

As others have said Mitt sould be polished he's been shining the teacher's apple for 15 years.

I don't have a fave I just want an honorable loyal Republican to beat Bambi

Posted by: sven10077 at September 07, 2011 10:42 PM (AEIYh)

241 we don't need another 8 years of a governor from texas....

Who's "we", shit-for-brains? You got a little cat in your pocket?

Posted by: Waterhouse at September 07, 2011 10:42 PM (odrIx)

242 "Sorry, but I'm still with Mittens."

It's ok. Some people are attracted by liars. See 52% ers.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 10:42 PM (t2cEH)

243 you know he is another governor
from texas, we had 8 years of a governor from texas and you know what,
we don't need another 8 years of a governor from texas....


Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:40 PM (k1rwm)
And yet you support Ron Paul, and Andrew Cuomo, a NYC douchebag who's done zip.Why don't you go over to HuffPuff or Kos? They'll LOVE you there. You'll get all the attention your parents and imaginary friends have never given you.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 07, 2011 10:43 PM (UOM48)

244 >>>What happened to the earlier belief that all Perry had to do was show up and not fall on his face

I didn't say that. I saw other people say it. This is Perry's debut. The idea that he could just "not lose" and yet win was wrong.

Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 10:43 PM (nj1bB)

245 Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:41 PM (D6IZ4)

I was driving today and heard some one on the radio say exactly the opposite.

If you guys don't think a lot of the country was horrified by his comments on the death penalty then you are truly delusional.

Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:43 PM (k1rwm)

246 Perry isn't as good at extemporaneous speaking as he needs to be. He's too much like "W" in that regard. However, he's going to hang tough, and have some fine moments that keep him in the game, like his answer on Ultimate Justice We Much!.

He could get better, but I'm not holding a lot of hope for that. He's been Governing a lot of years, and that should have made a difference already. At the same time, having been the Gov. of TEXAS, Baby! for all those years probably makes it hard for him to understand how in the world he might need to get better. It's like asking an all-star player to go see a specialist to improve his game.

Posted by: K~Bob at September 07, 2011 10:44 PM (83L9B)

247 >>>As others have said Mitt sould be polished he's been shining the teacher's apple for 15 years.

Maybe but I'm callin' it like I see it. Look, I support Perry, but he did not win.

I could just say he won because I support him but then , I mean, come on. What's the point of that?

Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 10:44 PM (nj1bB)

248 There are exactly two issues anybody (on the right or left) is focusing on right now: debt and the economy. I'm just not going to believe anything else is more than a sideshow until proven otherwise.

I really don't think Romney emphasizing his commitment to guard Social Security helps him as much as he thinks, particularly with primary voters.

Posted by: AD at September 07, 2011 10:45 PM (wJHvU)

249 I'd love to see Newt as the moderator for any debate Obama is in (as if that would ever happen).

Posted by: t-bird at September 07, 2011 10:45 PM (FcR7P)

250
Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:43 PM (k1rwm)
you live in fucking NY dumbass! it's like me claiming the whole country wants 100% conservative policies because I heard from folks in Utah. The country is pro-death penelty btw so what the fuck are you talking about? And if people feel so scared of a Texas Gov why does he lead Obama in the recent polls in rasmussen and abc news?

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:45 PM (D6IZ4)

251 >>>He could get better, but I'm not holding a lot of hope for that.

I have heard him better. That's part of the reason I'm so disappointed.

Shit, he was great on Levin. And Levin was asking the same sort of "Defend your record" questions as Perry got here.

Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 10:45 PM (nj1bB)

252 Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 07, 2011 10:43 PM (UOM4

Jane if you actually read my posts you will understand what I'm saying. Instead you either skim them or decide in advance what you expect me to say but either way you never seem to understand my premise. so you attack me and call me all sorts of names. I really wish you would just ignore me, frankly I'm tired of the abuse.

Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:45 PM (k1rwm)

253 247 Ace,

Wasn't caling you out I was agreeing just qualifying Mitt's superiority

Posted by: sven10077 at September 07, 2011 10:46 PM (AEIYh)

254 Uh, aren't there at least five more debates between now and Iowa and about four more after that?

???

How can anyone say for certain what outcome we should expect. That's preposterous.

Posted by: lu at September 07, 2011 10:46 PM (xCEfT)

255 " cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:43"

So you are saying most of the US is ok with child murderers not being executed?

What rucked up part of the country do you live in, Brokeafornia or New York?

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 10:46 PM (t2cEH)

256 I'm stuck at work so could only catch a few clips.

No matter. What's really important is what Frank Luntz has to say about the debate.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at September 07, 2011 10:46 PM (SY2Kh)

257 245
Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:41 PM (D6IZ4)

I was driving today and heard some one on the radio say exactly the opposite.

If you guys don't think a lot of the country was horrified by his comments on the death penalty then you are truly delusional.


Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:43 PM (k1rwm)You don't drive. You ride the subway. And no one cares what your "part of the country" cares about.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 07, 2011 10:46 PM (UOM48)

258 I didn't say that .. I saw other people say it. This is Perry's debut. The idea that he could just "not lose" and yet win was wrong.
Didn't say you said it, but it was out there. Was I disappointed in Perry's debut, in some parts yes. Do I think he's "done?" No. I still just can't wrap myself around a President Mitt. That being said I will vote for a President "Ham "sandwich" if it defeats Obama...

Posted by: The terrorist Hobbit formerly known as Donna at September 07, 2011 10:47 PM (zgEs1)

259 ace at the risk of you snapping at me for telling you how to do your job are you gonna just let curious continue her leftists leaning meltdown propaganda go unanswered on the blog you own? not saying you should ban the troll but come on stand up and defend against such stupidity

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:47 PM (D6IZ4)

260 252
Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 07, 2011 10:43 PM (UOM4

Jane
if you actually read my posts you will understand what I'm saying.
Instead you either skim them or decide in advance what you expect me to
say but either way you never seem to understand my premise. so you
attack me and call me all sorts of names. I really wish you would just
ignore me, frankly I'm tired of the abuse.


Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:45 PM (k1rwm)

What happened to your top secret comment filter? Is is broken?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 07, 2011 10:47 PM (UOM48)

261 I have heard him better. That's part of the reason I'm so disappointed. Shit, he was great on Levin. And Levin was asking the same sort of "Defend your record" questions as Perry got here.
Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 10:45 PM (nj1bB)
I've seen him better too, not making excuses but then I will. Maybe spending the last couple of days with your state in crisis takes your eye of an upcoming debate.

Posted by: robtr at September 07, 2011 10:47 PM (MtwBb)

262 #220, The debate must have been like a Rorschach test. I didn't see what you saw. I think Romney did well, probably won the debate, but I didn't seeany emotionalweakness in Perry.He hada fewknowledge gaps, but cry? Really?

Posted by: snowcrash at September 07, 2011 10:48 PM (T/g1q)

263 if you actually read my posts you will understand what I'm saying.

If you could write a coherent sentence in English, someone might understand what stupid shit you're babbling about.

Fuck off, you fucking imbecile, that's an easy way to solve your "abuse" problem.

Posted by: Waterhouse at September 07, 2011 10:48 PM (odrIx)

264 >>>Wasn't caling you out I was agreeing just qualifying Mitt's superiority

well okay but if someone's a better shortstop "just because he's played startting shortstop for 4 years" he's still a better shortstop.

Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 10:48 PM (nj1bB)

265 frankly I'm tired of the abuse.

Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:45 PM (k1rwm)
If you really were, you'd just fuck off already

Posted by: mugiwara at September 07, 2011 10:48 PM (KI/Ch)

266
Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:45 PM (k1rwm)
abuse?! abuse?! I saw you call moronettes whores and sluts and take shots at diseases they're families had. You picked on Jane using her son, you called us slefish bitches and then demanded an apology. fuck you and your claims of abuse

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:48 PM (D6IZ4)

267 Perry looked and sounded like W 2.0

Posted by: Barbarian at September 07, 2011 10:49 PM (EL+OC)

268 All I can say is, it's a good thing Newt Gingrich isn't likable and doesn't look like Mitt Romney. He runs circles around everybody up there.

As for Perry Romney, Perry's saying some stuff that'll be challenging for him in the general, but so what? That's the next battle. You have to live to fight it. This battle is for the nomination. I don't know how Romney's going to get there by dispiriting the GOP base. They're not all seniors, are they?

Romney had better hope that Cain and Bachmann and Santorum and Paul all stay in for a good long while, and that Palin gets in too, otherwise I don't see how he lasts past South Carolina, or Super Tuesday at the latest.

Then again, I'm the guy who said "Romney and Palin in the end". And my gut still says Romney will win it somehow, even though my brain says "no way".

Can you imagine the vaccuum if Perry somehow implodes?


Posted by: A Liberal AoS Reader, Really! at September 07, 2011 10:49 PM (khw5i)

269 Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:47 PM (D6IZ4)

what leftist leaning propoganda? have you read a single one of my posts, have you?

Or is it that you can't tolerate another point of view that disagrees with you. Of course no one supports child murderers. But a lot of people don't like the death penalty. And could you please all show me the poll that says the entire country supports the death penalty, I missed it.

Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:49 PM (k1rwm)

270 Posted by: petunia at September 07, 2011 10:38 PM (hgrmi)

You know, trolling isn't that hard. Being a bit less obvious shouldn't be that difficult.

Perry didn't do as well as I'd hoped, but your criticism is far too over the top to be taken seriously. Thanks for trying, though.

Posted by: Slublog at September 07, 2011 10:49 PM (gtDjX)

271 Perry's rebuttal commercial should repeat his line about Obama either being poorly informed or an abject liar. Then show a quote about SS being broke and unsustainable. Then say Mitt must be poorly informed about the state of Social Security. The the tag line-someone's has to tell the truth! Scrolling across the screen at the end.

Posted by: Brian at September 07, 2011 10:49 PM (GMzH2)

272 Why do these shitbirds always pick on Jane? Or is it the same shitbird who has been allowed, nay, encouraged, to run amok on teh blog?

Posted by: Peaches at September 07, 2011 10:50 PM (/ybwc)

273 "Of course no one supports child murderers."

You are stating they deserve to live after killing a kid. You are a POS and frankly you can go f9ck yourself. Liberal anti American POS is what you are.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 10:51 PM (t2cEH)

274 I came into this debate rooting for Perry,but now, honestly, I have some concerns. Presentation is important, and Perry looked uncomfortable out there tonight. Mitt's a cool and sharp guy - he's a businessman. I just can't get past his health care debacle.

I hope Perry's just tired from the fire emergency and thst he'll do better next time. Otherwise I might have to take another look at Mitt.

Posted by: Mike at September 07, 2011 10:51 PM (ptP00)

275 You know, I mostly lurk, but I am from Texas, and liveoutside Houston. Some kiln-dried cranberry from the northeast who's "curious" needs to back the foff. Don't need another Governor from Texas? You were lucky to have the one we had 9/11, idiot. We dodged a damn bullet getting W instead of Gore.

Posted by: Katy Beth at September 07, 2011 10:51 PM (sspfj)

276 264 ace,

Heh...wasn't snarking at you boss honest.

Politics may be the ONLY "sport" where age often makes you better......

We'll see if Perry can answer the bell....it will actualy be a good benchmark of his character

Posted by: sven10077 at September 07, 2011 10:51 PM (AEIYh)

277 266

Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:45 PM (k1rwm)
abuse?!
abuse?! I saw you call moronettes whores and sluts and take shots at
diseases they're families had. You picked on Jane using her son, you
called us slefish bitches and then demanded an apology. fuck you and
your claims of abuse

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:48 PM (D6IZ4)
you have a very one sided view. You see what you want to see. did you see the months and weeks of absolute meanness foisted upon my every comment by a core group of posters. I am a new york born and bred and proud of it and that irritates some of you to the point where your absolute hatred of new york comes across and then translates to me and what i say. Plus i'm younger than you guys, I see things differently, you are my parents' age, I disagree with them too.

Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:52 PM (k1rwm)

278 I didn't say that. I saw other people say it. This is Perry's debut.
The idea that he could just "not lose" and yet win was wrong.

Isn't it conventional wisdom that the frontrunner need only "not lose" a debate?

Even if he didn't win the debate (and it sounds like he didn't), if his performance was sufficiently adequate that he remains the frontrunner, isn't that in a sense a "win"?

Posted by: Hollowpoint at September 07, 2011 10:52 PM (SY2Kh)

279 In addition to the practice, I think Romney is naturally a better debater than Perry. He is more of a policy person and more skilled at subtle deflections. But being more rhetorically gifted than your opponent does not translate into being a more skilled executive.

That said, I've seen Perry consistently do better than he did tonight and more debate prep would be helpful. They especially need to watch for gotcha questions such as the global warming one.

Posted by: Miss80sBaby at September 07, 2011 10:52 PM (o2lIv)

280
Romney didn't beat Perry. Perry beat Perry.
Why are you mad at Romney for having a good debate. Are you mad at the other basketball team when they beat your team? Do you say it is lying when they make the basket more times?
Romney has every right to use Perry's own words against him! Words mean things. You can't say SS was a bad idea and is a complete failure and expect that your political opponent isn't going to press the issue! It's SS!
IfSS was a complete failure it would not be the third rail of politics in America! People love SS. That is why you treat it very carefully when you speak!
Come on! Perry was horrible!

Posted by: petunia at September 07, 2011 10:53 PM (hgrmi)

281 Posted by: Katy Beth at September 07, 2011 10:51 PM (sspfj)

golf clap

Posted by: Peaches at September 07, 2011 10:53 PM (/ybwc)

282 If Romney won, why is he lying about Perry's take on Social Security?

He isn't acting like he won jack shit.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 10:53 PM (t2cEH)

283 Can you imagine the vaccuum if Perry somehow implodes?



Posted by: A Liberal AoS Reader, Really! at September 07, 2011 10:49 PM (khw5i)
That's what Palin is waiting for. There are a bunch of debates the next few weeks and all lights are going to be focused on Perry. If he implodes, Palin enters, if not Palin is on team Perry. That's my prediction and I'm sticking to it.

Posted by: mugiwara at September 07, 2011 10:53 PM (KI/Ch)

284 'Night all! off to snuggle with my snoring husband.

Let's all say a pray for real and hope that Texas will survive this night. Texans are strong, awesome people.

Texas!

Posted by: Jane D'oh at September 07, 2011 10:53 PM (UOM48)

285 Re: This Blog Feud

Please stop.

I know people want me to ban curious but it's sort of hard to when in every thread I see people screaming at her. If you laid off, and let her say something awful, then I could ban her, which I'm actually inclined to do just because I'm sick of hearing about it and would like to just ban her to stop the drama.

But every thread I go into she's being attacked, and then I'm told "See? Ban her!!!"

It is hard for me to ban someone in good conscience under these circumstances.



Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 10:54 PM (nj1bB)

286
Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:49 PM (k1rwm)
okay listen bitch, I've disagreed with co-bloggers, ace, and other commenters. Yet I enevr have had to deal w/ a so called conservative who claims abuse as she disses other commenters about their families, kids, and their sex life. You have called people slefish bitches and then turned around and said you demand an apology. you got in the good graces of a good many here and you;ve shitted all over it. EVERYONE wants you gone and you stay. you are a fucking waste of our time and space here.
fuck, at leats proudonkey will admit to being a douchebag and an idiot.
as for the poll you ask for dumbass:
Gallup's annual Crime Survey finds that 65% of Americans continue to support the use of the death penalty for persons convicted of murder, while 31% oppose it -- continuing a trend that has shown little change over the last six years.

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:54 PM (D6IZ4)

287 186 My feeling is, Perry needs to talk about solutions to strengthen Social Security - not attack the system itself. The debate about whether or not we should have Social Security was settled a long time ago.
This.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky at September 07, 2011 10:54 PM (fNdyx)

288 For the record, I was a Romney guy last cycle. Voted for him in our state primary, donated to his campaign. He was solid, but I was extremely disappointed with his answer on Social Security and his campaign's post-debate press crap. I don't expect our candidates to be nice guys, but I'd prefer they weren't dishonest asshats.

Posted by: Slublog at September 07, 2011 10:55 PM (gtDjX)

289 282 Nixon,
Maybe Mitt unleashed his inner Huckledoodle

Posted by: sven10077 at September 07, 2011 10:55 PM (AEIYh)

290 Curious, I don't hate New York. I just don't think about New York. If you want to have a bloodfest over labor day with 67 shootings knock yourself out. It doesn't matter to me.
You have proved gun control works though. All the people that got shot didn't have guns.

Posted by: robtr at September 07, 2011 10:55 PM (MtwBb)

291 Ace, you have a good conscience?

Posted by: Brian at September 07, 2011 10:56 PM (GMzH2)

292 you have a very one sided view. You see what you want to see. did you see the months and weeks of absolute meanness foisted upon my every comment by a core group of posters. I am a new york born and bred and proud of it and that irritates some of you to the point where your absolute hatred of new york comes across and then translates to me and what i say. Plus i'm younger than you guys, I see things differently, you are my parents' age, I disagree with them too.
Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:52 PM (k1rwm)
What did you do to make so many people hate you? Do you even have a clue? And you also have it backwards dumbass. Our hatred of you has translated over to new york, not the other way around.
And its really funny of you to accuse a guy that is probably only 22 of being old.
And you claim people don't read your comments. Go away troll.

Posted by: buzzion at September 07, 2011 10:56 PM (GULKT)

293 59 Perry's got to be so very careful about what he says about Social Security. People who depend on Social Security don't want to hear that the program's a fraud - they put money in it for 40 years and want to believe in it.

I have been putting money into SS for over 40 years and I knew it sucked when I was 13 years old.
You have to find creative ways to pay as little into it as possible and save more on your own. It is going to crash - just a matter of when...look at the USPS.

Posted by: izoneguy at September 07, 2011 10:56 PM (i6Neb)

294 Chris Matthews invites Santorum to attack Perry and Romney refusing to identify themselves as "Tea Party Members" TM.

Nice working with the enemy, fucker.

Posted by: Boston12GS at September 07, 2011 10:56 PM (hvrPG)

295 Romney's kind of a dick, and sneaky like that little shit, Neidermeyer.

It's a good news/bad news thing.

Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 10:56 PM (nj1bB)

296
Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 10:54 PM (nj1bB)
except there's History ace
- she attacked Jane's son
- she's attacked moronette's families
- she's attacked moronette's chastity
- she's called folks slefish bitches then came back demanding apologies
- she's linked to Trig trutherism
I'm not calling for banning but come on man, defend your commenters. not even Greg stopped that low as she has.

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:57 PM (D6IZ4)

297 did you see the months and weeks of absolute meanness foisted upon my every comment by a core group of posters

What exactly is it that causes you to stay here when everyone wishes you would just go away? Is there really no other hang where you might be more welcome, more appreciated? Or, at the very least, less loathed and reviled? I'm not snarkin' here, I truly don't get it. What the hell is wrong with you?

Posted by: Peaches at September 07, 2011 10:57 PM (/ybwc)

298 I was under the impression the benefit of a primary seasons was that it was a marathon; not a sprint.

Posted by: lu at September 07, 2011 10:57 PM (xCEfT)

299 Remember when everyone said Bush blew a debate and it turned out he had been touring hurricane damage all day in 100 degree heat? Does Romny even have a fucking job???

Posted by: mike at September 07, 2011 10:57 PM (nf5uS)

300 Romney has every right to use Perry's own words against him! Words mean
things. You can't say SS was a bad idea and is a complete failure and
expect that your political opponent isn't going to press the issue!
It's SS!

The problem is, Romney didn't use Perry's words against him. He lied. Not exactly a sign of strength in one's beliefs.

Posted by: Slublog at September 07, 2011 10:57 PM (gtDjX)

301 Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:52 PM (k1rwm) i'm 22 dumbass, you are of my generation. don't try the all of you old people hate me crap

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 10:58 PM (D6IZ4)

302 sven with Romney turning into Obamalite tonight, he's opened himself up to a lot of attacks from social cons who were waiting for the primaries to actually start before getting vocal.

I think Romney being a now proven liar will cost him any chance at a political future unless he wins the nomination this time. Perry sure as hell won't ask him to be his VP if he gets the nomination.

Mitt better win it all. He's toast after tonight.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 10:58 PM (t2cEH)

303 Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 10:49 PM (k1rwm)


I'm fine with people who disagree. It's just the completely "making stuff up" part as well as completely making up easily verifiable facts that gets old really quickly.

Posted by: AD at September 07, 2011 10:58 PM (wJHvU)

304 "It's ok. Some people are attracted by liars. See 52% ers."
Yes, and apparently some are attracted to border security layabouts.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at September 07, 2011 10:58 PM (0DGtF)

305 can you just let her engage in new attacks, without the pack attack on her first, so I can ban her as you wish?

Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 10:59 PM (nj1bB)

306 Look, I was on the fence between Perry and Romney before the debate. Now I'm leaning towards Romney.

Maybe Perry will put in a better debate performance in a couple weeks (or whenever the next debate is scheduled), but this was kinda bad.

Just being honest. I expected him to look good. He looked pretty bad. Disappointing.

Posted by: Durka at September 07, 2011 10:59 PM (QjrRF)

307 I agree with Ace's assessment of the debate overall, save for Santorum's performance. He just comes off as a kid among men and women, and was prone to babbling a couple of times. I don't think he came off any better than Perry, and had fewer opportunities to make up for stumbles. Speaking of which, Perry got lucky with that final question being about capital punishment. That was at least a triple he hit with that answer.

Posted by: holygoat at September 07, 2011 10:59 PM (2ptZ1)

308 "What the hell is wrong with you?"

Self-pity manifesting as self-diagnosed beaten wife syndrome?

Posted by: prettypinkfluffypanties at September 07, 2011 10:59 PM (doj+Z)

309 Mathews goading Santorum now into talking about same-sex marriage--because obviously that's at the center of the nation's survival. Whether or not gay people can penetrate each other with the blessing of the government.

Matthews finishes up by saying he's sorry he doesn't have time to follow up with evolution.

Same-sex marriage, evolution. Drink. Drink.

Mathews. How long before he comes out of the closet.

Posted by: Boston12GS at September 07, 2011 10:59 PM (hvrPG)

310 270
Posted by: petunia at September 07, 2011 10:38 PM (hgrmi)

You know, trolling isn't that hard. Being a bit less obvious shouldn't be that difficult.Perry
didn't do as well as I'd hoped, but your criticism is far too over the
top to be taken seriously. Thanks for trying, though.

Posted by: Slublog

We will also have lovely parting gifts for you.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT & Barbarian at September 07, 2011 11:00 PM (3TjSM)

311 261
I have heard him better. That's part of the reason I'm so disappointed.

Shit, he was great on Levin. And Levin was asking the same sort of "Defend your record" questions as Perry got here.


Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 10:45 PM (nj1bB)
I've seen him better too, not making excuses but then I
will. Maybe spending the last couple of days with your state in crisis
takes your eye of an upcoming debate.

Posted by: robtr at September 07, 2011 10:47 PM (MtwBb)

--------------- ------------ ------------

I know what you guys mean. I forgot to add that Perry is always Great! in an interview. I can't remember seeing one that was bad, and I've seen a lot of them, ever since his discussion of the secession issue. But for some reason it doesn't translate well to the podium.

Also, that last point. As Moron I think it's my duty to ask, how can we elect a guy who's state is on fire?

But I'd vote for him, if he stays sharp.

Posted by: K~Bob at September 07, 2011 11:00 PM (83L9B)

312 " border security layabouts."

Yeah, calling for more Border Patrol agents, the National Guard, selective fencing, and Predator drones on the Mexican border means you are a security squish.

Idiot.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 11:00 PM (t2cEH)

313 And could you please all show me the poll that says the entire country supports the death penalty, I missed it.



You mean you never bothered to look into it. Try a google search, before you pretend to knowledge you don't possess.

Posted by: Waterhouse at September 07, 2011 11:01 PM (odrIx)

314 FYI: On the Perry HPV mandate that DR Ron Paul was so against...

Ahem... Texas has ALREADY MANDATED immunizations. They had them when i was in grade school back in the 70's and my 4 sons have to have them now. I'd have thought a DR might understand a public health issue. I mean, it's not as key to medicine as the "gold standard" but I figured you MIGHT have covered that in medical school.

EDUCATION CODE

TITLE 2. PUBLIC EDUCATION

CHAPTER 38. HEALTH AND SAFETY
38.001 (2007)
38.001. Immuizations; Requirements; Exceptions.
(a) Each student shall be fully immunized against diphtheria,
rubeola, rubella, mumps, tetanus, and poliomyelitis, except as provided
by Subsection (c).
(c) Immunization is not required for a person's admission to any
elementary or secondary school if the person applying for admission: (1)
submits to the admitting official:


(A) an affidavit or a certificate signed by a physician who is duly
registered and licensed to practice medicine in the United States, in
which it is stated that, in the physician's opinion, the immunization
required poses a significant risk to the health and well-being of the
applicant or any member of the applicant's family or household; or

(B) an affidavit signed by the applicant or, if a minor, by the
applicant's parent or guardian stating that the applicant declines
immunization for reasons of conscience, including a religious belief; or
(2) is a member of the armed forces of the United States and is on
active duty.




Posted by: rhaubib at September 07, 2011 11:01 PM (2giRu)

315 Still, as much as I disliked Romney's answer on Social Security, I'd walk over broken glass in bare feet to vote for him over the SCoaMF.

Posted by: Slublog at September 07, 2011 11:01 PM (gtDjX)

316 If Perry gets up to speed on politics/science of AGW and S.S.and can answer those tricky questions with the conviction and confidence he answered the death penalty question, he will start winning debates and pulling supporters from the remaining candidates. Then it will truly be a two man race, butPerry is not there yet.

Posted by: snowcrash at September 07, 2011 11:02 PM (T/g1q)

317 IfSS was a complete failure it would not be the third rail of
politics in America! People love SS. That is why you treat it very
carefully when you speak!
People love food stamps, unemployment, and public housing too. Doesn't mean they are the greatest of ideas, work well, or can't be touched.
(but don't take mine away of course)


Posted by: Auntie Zaituni at September 07, 2011 11:02 PM (R6j6q)

318 you have a very one sided view.
You see what you want to see. did you see the months and weeks of
absolute meanness foisted upon my every comment by a core group of
posters. I am a new york born and bred and proud of it and that
irritates some of you to the point where your absolute hatred of new
york comes across and then translates to me and what i say. Plus i'm
younger than you guys, I see things differently, you are my parents'
age, I disagree with them too.


Posted by: cantankerous

I don't hate New York, I just loathe you and Bloomberg and Belgians.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT & Barbarian at September 07, 2011 11:02 PM (3TjSM)

319 283 That's what Palin is waiting for.
There are a bunch of debates the next few weeks and all lights are going
to be focused on Perry. If he implodes, Palin enters, if not Palin is
on team Perry. That's my prediction and I'm sticking to it.


Posted by: mugiwara at September 07, 2011 10:53 PM (KI/Ch)
I know it seems crazy given the current state of things, but I still think Palin's getting in no matter what. I just can't see her swallowing her pride that hard. If she's interested in doing what's best for the party, she'll do exactly what you're predicting. Is she?

Posted by: A Liberal AoS Reader, Really! at September 07, 2011 11:03 PM (khw5i)

320 "Then it will truly be a two man race, butPerry is not there yet."

Considering the polls have him ahead of Mitt the Liar, your opinion is rather strange.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 11:03 PM (t2cEH)

321 Curious, ace founded this blog living in New York. There is a lot of disdain by conservatives towards New York in general because the people who live there often project an air of superiority, and tend to be fairly liberal, but the fact that the moronspost here is prima facie evidence they don't hate everything and everyone from New York reflexively.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 07, 2011 11:03 PM (vNpDB)

322
Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 10:59 PM (nj1bB)
okay i'll lay off since Jane left. I have a instinct response to defend Jane when curious shows up. again I don;t say she should be banned but I can;t stand someone who has viciously made things personal with fellow commenters past policy disagreements. I'll lay off for now.

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 11:03 PM (D6IZ4)

323 Banning the entity known as curious and its tormentors would result in at least at a ten percent drop in comments.

Posted by: intractable at September 07, 2011 11:03 PM (ZJ57G)

324 I am not surprised at all at Perry's disappointing performance. If you watched the Republican primary debates between Debra Medina, K.B. Hutchison and Perry, you would have seen that Perry's performance was not so hot. Hutchison and Medina were really bad, but Perry wasn't so great.

Posted by: chris at September 07, 2011 11:04 PM (KDAAY)

325 In fundraising, Romney does well. In debates, Romney does well. In national AND battleground state polling, Romney does well.

He's competent. He's smart. He's credible. He looks like a President.

If he is the nominee, I will gladly cast my ballot for him. He's not as conservative as I'd like, but he's no RINO.

And if anyone here is seriously suggesting that they would STAY HOME next November if Romney is the Republican nominee, then I suspect you are either A) lying, or B) a fucking retard.

Posted by: Durka at September 07, 2011 11:05 PM (QjrRF)

326 I know it seems crazy given the current state of things, but I still
think Palin's getting in no matter what. I just can't see her swallowing
her pride that hard. If she's interested in doing what's best for the
party, she'll do exactly what you're predicting. Is she?

Posted by: A Liberal AoS Reader, Really! at September 07, 2011 11:03 PM (khw5i)
I love me some Sarah Palin, but if she gets in while Perry is riding high she's dead to me. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Posted by: mugiwara at September 07, 2011 11:06 PM (KI/Ch)

327 Durka you left off Mittens skill at lying.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 11:07 PM (t2cEH)

328 @319

I'd agree accept she's has the same issue that Huck had. After that run, for the first time in her life, she's making "real" money. It's hard to cut millions of dollar loose when you had limited funds as a Gov, or other government worker.

Posted by: rhaubib at September 07, 2011 11:07 PM (2giRu)

329 Yeah, Mittens is slicker than snot but if he is the nominee I'll blow my nose and vote for him. Gak.

Posted by: mpfs, TPT & Barbarian at September 07, 2011 11:08 PM (3TjSM)

330
In national AND battleground state polling, Romney does well.

against Obama yes, against Perry not so much...for now
And if anyone here is seriously suggesting that they would STAY HOME next November if Romney is the Republican nominee, then I suspect you are either A) lying, or B) a fucking retard.
I agree ABO, but i'd sure feel good voting for Perry

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 11:08 PM (D6IZ4)

331 I've been trying to get this out. I thought perry's announcement speech was spectacular. That speech is what gave him the lead in the polls. tonight I was very disappointed, where was that guy? I expected to see that perry up there tonight and I saw someone different. Most people will give him a pass cause his state is literally on fire but next time the pressure will be on, please God, he won't have the fact that his state is on fire as an excuse and he can be the guy who made that hopeful speech.

Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 11:10 PM (k1rwm)

332 I guess we have to decide how to score this shit.

Perry went in there, probably tired and obviously not having anywhere near the same preparation advantages, and was attacked by almost everyone in the room. I think Hermann Cain wasn't among them, but most all others.

Santorum is 'offended' with Perry. Romney thinks Perry is scaring people. MSNBC wonders how Perry can sleep at night with all the innocent people he murdered or something.

So Perry stumbled, especially towards the end, and frankly he was obviously exhausted.

What's that show us? I'm not sure.

On the one hand, the badass politico ideal would be that our nominee has to be able to weather that kind of storm without any stumbling. But if we say Perry didn't, what then? none of these other guys weathered it. Do we veto the toughest guy for not being invincible, and then nominate a weakling? What good does that do us?

Romney started as governor of MA a couple years AFTER Perry started. He had negative approval ratings and didn't even bother to try to be reelected. There's a reason he's not leading anymore. Some of these other people had leadership roles and for various reasons lost them. Newt, for example. Some of these people never even held executive positions.

Perry is definitely not the best politician running. He is the best governor running.


Posted by: Dustin at September 07, 2011 11:10 PM (fF625)

333 I will vote for Romney and if he is elected hope that a "far right" tea party congress will push him in the right direction. I don't think he has that many core beliefs - just his belief in himself as a technocrat.

Posted by: chris at September 07, 2011 11:10 PM (KDAAY)

334 You're right Durk

Posted by: Mike at September 07, 2011 11:10 PM (ptP00)

335 "Yeah, calling for more Border Patrol agents, the National Guard, selective fencing, and Predator drones on the Mexican border means you are a security squish.
Idiot."
Selective fencing? You dolt. Do you notunderstand the concept of walking around something?
Also, have you taken the time to studyPerry's record on illegal immigration, and the kind of benefits he has supported for illegal immigrants?

Posted by: Reggie1971 at September 07, 2011 11:11 PM (0DGtF)

336 #320 Polls after his debate debut will tell how the people watching liked him. Just FYI Dick, I am a Perry supporter, butPOST debate polls will tell.

Posted by: snowcrash at September 07, 2011 11:11 PM (T/g1q)

337 I'll echo the "not bad" comments on Perry. He seemed off of his game- rambling around before getting on point on some answers, his punches were well aimed but landed weakly, and he looked tired. All understandable, but it didn't do him any favors.

That said, I don't think he hurt himself either. I was fine with his SS comments. He's got time to build a foundation under his statement in the coming months. The debate stage doesn't allow the time for that. High time someone called SS for what it is, in no uncertain terms. Everyone knows it, even the fucks that like to pretend otherwise. His AGW answer was bad, but mostly due the the rambling. He got to the right place, but took the scenic route.

Bachmann gave her best performance to date tonight. If she was always this on the ball, I might start taking her seriously for something other than her current job. Not POTUS level yet, but she's a hell of a fast learner and I was glad to see that she dropped her typical canned, applause-line answers to everything.

Newt made huge progress in helping me to eventually forgive him for his couch time with Nancy. I wish he wasn't such a lying, scum sucking, establishment, inconsistent, dirt bag, cause the man's got chops and is a hell of a historian.

Cain also was on his game tonight. He's learning, but there's still too much amateur hour with him when he goes off script.

Romney is a dick who has a promising career in used car sales. No doubt he's got skills. Unfortunately this skills are slinging bullshit and weaving it into fool's gold. It too bad that even he doesn't believe a word he says.

Otherwise, the rest of them had no business being there; particularly Huntsman.

At least Ron Paul has the value of being a rodeo clown... a fact that MSDNC exploited tonight by giving him more air time than he's ever had. I'm sure that their editing department is busy archiving his most loony bits to replay on demand to show how crazy and out of touch Republican's are.

It should dovetail nicely with the inevitable edit that will show Perry talking about how he's proud of murdering over 200 people while the audience full of Tea Partiers applauds him for it.

Posted by: Damiano at September 07, 2011 11:12 PM (A2+pr)

338 Reggie1971

So now you trot out a strawman after getting schooled on your bs statements on Perry being soft on the border.

Thanks for playing.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 11:12 PM (t2cEH)

339 ace, I had a different take than you on Perry.

and I think that has to do with expectations...I came in with low expectations as I only saw perry on the john stewart show, and he came off super texan and slickwilly in that interview.

hence, today perry actually impressed me as he wasn't super folksy and was quite sober. I thought he did better than I expected...except when he noticeably trailed off at the end.

Posted by: proudonkey at September 07, 2011 11:12 PM (NadeK)

340 "I came in with low expectations"

As a Obot, that is understandable.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 11:15 PM (t2cEH)

341 So far santorum and cain are the only ones who have bitten the bullet and stepped up to be interviewed on MSNBC and herman cain really handled the reverend al well.

Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 11:16 PM (k1rwm)

342 335
"Yeah, calling for more Border Patrol agents, the National Guard, selective fencing, and Predator drones on the Mexican border means you are a security squish.
Idiot."
Selective fencing? You dolt. Do you not understand the concept of walking around something?
Also, have you taken the time to study Perry's record on illegal immigration, and the kind of benefits he has supported for illegal immigrants?

Posted by: Reggie1971 at September 07, 2011 11:11 PM (0DGtF)
A fence is only an adjunct, and there are places where it's value doesn't justify the cost. You need people there to intercept the illegals, otherwise a fence only slows them down slightly. It wasn't the barbed wire that made the Berlin Wall work for decades, it was the guys with machine guns.
Illegals who want to walk into the middle of the desert to get around the fence are easy to find--any idea how bright the human body is on thermal imaging against a desert floor at night?

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 07, 2011 11:19 PM (vNpDB)

343 Perry (begins with the same 3 letters as "pervert" and with the same 2 syllables as periwinkle, an authentically gay color) wins for not slipping up and admitting he smokes pole.

(Ok, that was a joke. Friggin' lighten up.)

Posted by: SFGoth at September 07, 2011 11:19 PM (FY1KV)

344 buy windows 7 cd key buy wedding dress CD Keys ARMA 2 CD Key Call of Duty CD Key Company of Heroes CD Key Command Conquer CD Key Dawn of War 2 CD Key Dead Space CD Key Fallout 3 CD Key Mass Effect 2 CD Key Silent Hunter 5 CD Key The Sims 3 CD Key GTA 4 CD Key NFS CD Key Titan Quest CD Key RUSE CD Key F1 2010 CD Key Two Worlds 2 CD Key Star Trek Online CD Key Spore CD Key Far Cry 3 CD Key Dungeons CD Key Dragon Age CD Key Divinity 2 CD Key Dead Space 2 CD Key Crysis 2 CD Key Cities XL 2011 CD Key HomeFront CD Key Shogun 2 Total War CD Key Fable 3 CD Key PES 2011 CD Key Duke Nukem Forever CD Key Dungeon Siege 3 CD Key FEAR 3 CD Key NBA 2K11 CD Key RIFT CD Key Red Faction: Armageddon CD Key Dead Island CD Key Driver San Francisco CD Key Deus Ex: Human Revolution CD Key F1 2011 CD Key From Dust CD Key Red Orchestra 2 CD Key Tropico 4 CD Key Might Magic Heroes 6 CD Key Hard Reset CD Key

Posted by: dby54cv2 at September 07, 2011 11:19 PM (NrOdi)

345 287
186 My feeling is, Perry needs to talk about solutions to strengthen Social Security - not attack the system itself. The debate about whether or not we should have Social Security was settled a long time ago.
This.Posted by: ChristyBlinky at September 07, 2011 10:54 PM (fNdyx) respectfully, i disagree, the welfare state is destroying our country, the dependency and helplessness it fosters is eating away at our ablity to rely on ourselves and compete in a harsh world, the Welfare State must end or it will drag western civilization down with it.you'll never be able to get rid of it until you change people's minds, the case must be made on moral grounds, just as the progressives used the moral outrage of the people to institute their policies over the last hundred years, the only way we tear those policies down is on moral grounds.

Posted by: shoey at September 07, 2011 11:20 PM (m6OUa)

346 Dick Nixon:
A strawman? I suppose the kind of benefits he has supported for illegal aliens are no incentive at all for them to breach border "security".
But yeah, thanks for playing.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at September 07, 2011 11:26 PM (0DGtF)

347 oh and curious?

Please stop giving us a running update about what your drippy New York friends think. New York does not count in the Republican primaries. It further does not count in general elections, as it is not a swing state, but a state assumed to be a lock for Democrats.

It only counts in an interesting way if it swings red.

We don't need to hear every day about what your liberal friends think of Perry or Republicans. We know what they think; we have televisions, and can see New York liberals' opinions whenever we like.

Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 11:27 PM (nj1bB)

348 whatever Reggie, go hang with your boy Mittens and make up some more lies about Perry.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 11:28 PM (t2cEH)

349 My friends in Texas think Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure.

Posted by: Oily Taitz at September 07, 2011 11:30 PM (TUax9)

350 OK Dick, tell Perry that it might actually benefit him to anticipate questions in future debates so he doesn't have to stare at the ceiling.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at September 07, 2011 11:30 PM (0DGtF)

351 Perry did okay but it's a shame that his supporters have to whine, spin and take out their frustrations against Romney who came out on top in this debate.

Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney at September 07, 2011 11:30 PM (3WzDD)

352 This is where the accusations of trolling come from, curious. This odd insistence that conservatives ought to take special heed of what liberal New Yorkers think.

They are politically irrelevant to Republicans, because they do not vote for us. So we do not need to hear the particulars of why they don't like us.

Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 11:31 PM (nj1bB)

353 Gov. Perry's state is burning up. He looked tired. He did well tonight, no homeruns, but he did fine for his first national debate with the mods and most of the candidates gunning for the guy right from the start. This was not a debate, it was a "let's defeat Rick Perry" MSNBC attempted murder of a candidate. The loser? MSNBC and Ron Paul and yellow Huntsman (who spent his day in the tanning booth after his facial, manicure, pedicure and haircut while Gov Perry tried to stop his state from frying).
I have no idea why this was called a debate, it was a few minutes each of talking points when not killing Perry from all sides. A real debate will occur when the field is narrowed between two or three candidates (Perry, Romney and Bachman), and hopefully not on the worst cable channel in the history of mankind.
This is one of a zillion debates and it may go back and forth betweeen Perry and Romney from now until the GOP Primary.
I believePerry will improve. No one wins all debates (remember W vs Kerry?), and he tied tonight running against Romney who has been running for this office since 2007.

Posted by: ChristyBlinky at September 07, 2011 11:32 PM (fNdyx)

354 As much of a flake as Newt is, and as little traction as he is getting, I can't shake the suspicion that somehow 2012 might be his year.

Perry is Bush III. Talks a great game but is pure pol all the way. He will stab us in the back in a heartbeat if it gets him another donation from Goldman Sachs or whoever.

No way voters like me are going to put up with his bs good ol' boy act.Sorry, Ace, your girlfriend's a dog.

People are ready for some seriousness and some ideas instead of the same old Washington game. You forget that Gingrich was a revolutionary, an insurgent, in 1994.

I keep thinking about Churchill in the wilderness, flat broke and in a hospital bed (I guess that's kind of like being on a couch with Nancy Pelosi). Then when the chips were down, the Brits elevated him at exactly the right time--and then kicked him out even before the war was won. I can imagine that happening to Newt.

Posted by: Arms Merchant at September 07, 2011 11:34 PM (NZMKc)

355 If Romney won on the issues, why is he lying about Perry and Social Security? Answer: He is Obamalite. A believer in socialized medicine and a flipper.

Mitt Romney, proven liar.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 11:34 PM (t2cEH)

356 I don't hate New York, I just loathe you and Bloomberg and Belgians.

The French Belgians are OK--at least they have good food and wine. The Flemish, though . . . fuck, if you wake up there run as fast as you can for the Netherlands--you still won't understand the Dutch spoken--the damned Belgians insist on calling it "Flemish" because they make up words--, but the women shave like normal and are totally uninhibited about sex.

The Netherlands is like a heaven where you can't understand anything anybody says, but they are fond of Americans (they remember our rescue of them, lo so many decades ago) and you're always too tired and sexually satisfied to care about the lack of communication (personally, I consider the lack of communication part a "feature").

(Signed: US citizen--fuck yeah--who was until recently a multi-year legal resident in the Netherlands.)

Posted by: Boston12GS at September 07, 2011 11:34 PM (hvrPG)

357 If Romney's the nominee, Obama will win.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at September 07, 2011 11:34 PM (i0App)

358
Posted by: polynikes Texan for Romney at September 07, 2011 11:30 PM (3WzDD)
I called it a tie and said he fucked up the AGW question, wow what a whiner I am/s

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy) at September 07, 2011 11:35 PM (D6IZ4)

359 I still think the best part of the night (from a sheer entertainment perspective) was Williams asking how Perry slept at night literally two seconds after the crowd went wild over the Texecution numbers.

I don't know why - that gave me the gigglefits and they've not subsided!

Posted by: lu at September 07, 2011 11:35 PM (xCEfT)

360 Ideal GOP candidate:

Newt's brain, Mitt's appearance, Bachmann's ideology, Huntsman's favorable media coverage.

Amiright, or amiright?

Posted by: Durka at September 07, 2011 11:37 PM (QjrRF)

361 Brian Williams is a leftist shill. Sadly, he's the most credible "journalist" at NBC.

Posted by: Durka at September 07, 2011 11:38 PM (QjrRF)

362 Williams will have no back problems tomorrow as there was no candidate on stage tonight worthy of his bow.

Posted by: lu at September 07, 2011 11:39 PM (xCEfT)

363 In my opinion (and of course it's early), if Romney is the nominee, Obama loses in a landslide.

1980 all over again.

Posted by: Durka at September 07, 2011 11:39 PM (QjrRF)

364 Imaginary Perry:

"You're right, there IS a problem with executions in Texas. And that's the fact that we exclude small business from participating. There are hundreds, thousands of small hunting guide operations in Texas. Any of them would love the opportunity to host a "the most lethal game" event in Texas. I mean, the child rapist/murderer has already been sentenced to lethal injection, how can it be inhumane to give the fucker a "chance". One hour head start, one liter of water, the cage opens automatically at sunrise.

"Hell, I got one of those packages as a 50th birthday present, and it rocked. And the three little girls that fucker raped and murdered? I think they, or at least their families, were at least a little happy that my first shot didn't quite finish the fucker off--and he was a good 300 yards down range, so it took a while for me to get up there for the finish. Even then, I had to finish that pack of smokes, of course . . . well, you get the idea.

"It took him a while to quiet down. And trying to get the bullet out of the hole with that stick didn't work all that well, after all, no matter how much I pushed it in there and twisted it around."

"Too bad.

"You had another question?"

Posted by: Boston12GS at September 07, 2011 11:42 PM (hvrPG)

365 Hate to break it to the NYC types, but us upstate types don't really give a shit what NYC thinks.

About anything.

Posted by: Unclefacts Out Of Commenting Retirement Just For This One Thing at September 07, 2011 11:44 PM (6IReR)

366 If Perry didn't seem especially impressive at the debate, it might be because he's the only one with a day job, and it's been using up some of his debate prep time.

Posted by: OCBill at September 07, 2011 11:44 PM (MiSre)

367 363In my opinion (and of course it's early), if Romney is the nominee, Obama loses in a landslide.

1980 all over again. Posted by: Durka at September 07, 2011 11:39 PM (QjrRF) the base views Romney the same way they viewed McCain in '08.and the result will be the same as '08 if we nominate Romney.

Posted by: shoey at September 07, 2011 11:45 PM (m6OUa)

368 The rest of the field is going to have to try much harder to overcome Huntsman's lead in the MSNBC talking-head primary.

Posted by: Oily Taitz at September 07, 2011 11:45 PM (TUax9)

369 Posted by: ace at September 07, 2011 11:31 PM (nj1bB)

ace, I have been working very hard at not bringing up what my friends are saying. I'm sorry if I occasionally slip back but I am trying to just give my opinion. I'm learning about all this stuff from a different perspective. that you just don't walk into the polling place fifteen minutes before it closes and take a quick look at the sheet that shows you who is on the ballot and then just vote the names who look familiar. Maybe my opinion isn't the conservative opinion but I truly am right in the middle and I'm thinking that you guys think I'm an anomaly but that I'm thinking I'm more the norm.

I really do believe that rudy guiliani would be the right man for the job or that christie might be too. My take on tonight was that the republicans refused to be gladiators, instead they fought the president and his agenda and didn't fight each other but got all of the republican points across so I thought it was a good debate. I know a lot of people who aren't republican or conservative who watched the debate and I know a lot of them are quietly thinking.

Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 11:46 PM (k1rwm)

370 Posted by: Unclefacts Out Of Commenting Retirement Just For This One Thing

No meteors?

Posted by: Waterhouse at September 07, 2011 11:47 PM (odrIx)

371 No meteors?


Posted by: Waterhouse at September 07, 2011 11:47 PM (odrIx)


They're on FB, and they're spectacular.

Posted by: Unclefacts Out Of Commenting Retirement Just For This One Thing at September 07, 2011 11:48 PM (6IReR)

372 the base views Romney the same way they viewed McCain in '08.

and the result will be the same as '08 if we nominate Romney.

What a troll.

McCain was an old man (if previously gallant in his youth) without the heart to take the fight to the left. I saw the debates between him and Obama--McCain (who survived for years the Hanoi Hilton) could have, and should have, put that stuffed shirt metrosexual down, and hard, and it would have saved the nation and millions of Americans (born and unborn) incredible economic suffering.

In contrast, Perry is a man apparently bent on a mission to take that exact fight to the left "enemy"--even taking on the SS Ponzi scheme.

McCain and Perry could not be more different in that respect (noting that they are/were both great patriots in their time in service).

Posted by: Boston12GS at September 07, 2011 11:49 PM (hvrPG)

373 I know a lot of people who aren't republican or conservative who watched the debate and I know a lot of them are quietly thinking.
Posted by: cantankerous at September 07, 2011 11:46 PM (k1rwm
This is the problem. Stop always couching everything in terms of others. Just speak your mind, say what you think. Unless we know who you are, we don't care what your friends think, because we don't know them either.

Posted by: Conservative Crank at September 07, 2011 11:50 PM (vNpDB)

374 " I have been working very hard at not bringing up what my friends are saying."

then

" I know a lot of people" x 2.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 07, 2011 11:50 PM (t2cEH)

375 367:

I dont think thats entirely true...The base is very skeptical of Romney, but McCain had literally zero base support. Romney has at least some support among the base, especially the more pragmatic among them. I think a lot of that is leftover from 2008 when he was the most conservative of the 3 final candidates.

Note: I'm a Perry guy myself, I just think the ABO feeling among the folks in the base that don't already like him, is strong enough to avoid a McCain repeat.

Posted by: BSR, LIVE from Canada at September 07, 2011 11:51 PM (0kk1w)

376 This is crazy on Yahoo's front page there is a link to an article entitled-

Rick Perry's Remarks on Social Security Stand Out at Latest Debate

Then there is a video showing Perry.

I played the video and I was joking to my friend-

they are going to completely edit the part where Perry looks at the audience at home and promises a carve out for those seniors currently living on Social Security and even people his age who are about to receive it.

Well it was even worse than that-the video shows Mitt Romney describing Rick Perry's position on Social Security for us.

wow.

Posted by: tasker at September 07, 2011 11:51 PM (y8ni2)

377 Of course Mittens won't abolish Social Security. Hell probably expand it like ORomneycare.

Posted by: BruceTheRobert at September 07, 2011 11:51 PM (nGQQE)

378 the base views Romney the same way they viewed McCain in '08.
and the result will be the same as '08 if we nominate Romney.

McCain loss was due to a number of things:
The election was two months after the onset of a financial crisis.
He was following the second term of a really unpopular President of the same party.
People really dug greek columns at the time.

Posted by: Reggie1971 at September 07, 2011 11:52 PM (0DGtF)

379 edit: the video before you click it shows Rick Perry so you think it will be Rick Perry speaking for himself-but it immediately switches to Mitt Romney talking about what Rick Perry's position is.

Posted by: tasker at September 07, 2011 11:53 PM (y8ni2)

380 Skipping the forum in South Carolina was a mistake. I think we can all see that now. It was a mistake Perry had to make to avoid the fallout from seeming to ignore a disaster back home, but it was a mistake nonetheless.

Perry has a "tell" when he's being beaten. He bounces. He bounced a lot when Romney was jabbing him. And Romney jabbed him a lot tonight.

Conservative purists can go all bonkers about Romney hammering Perry on Social Security but the fact remains that people vote their pocketbooks and you aren't going to win older voters threatening their pocketbooks. That is political reality. This is why Palin always prefaces remarks on the need to change SS with the comment about "respecting our esteemed elders."

Brash talk sells well to the already committed. Brash talk sells well in Texas. Perry isn't playing to the already committed in Texas anymore. Now he's trying to persuade the rest of the country.

On the death penalty stuff: as a Roman Catholic who doesn't believe the Catechism is a cafeteria menu, I don't know how far you get acting like executions are like football games. Bread and circuses in the coliseum, anyone? We should have a little more respect for the fact of the state taking someone's life, even an egregiously guilty someone.

Perry set himself up for unrealistic expectations which he failed to meet. Observing Ace as the prototype Perry backer in tonight's post confirms this for me. Perry will have to do substantially better next time out or the "frontrunner" status will be gone in short order. He's playing with the big boys now. That Texas shuck-n-jive ain't gonna be sufficient any more.

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at September 07, 2011 11:53 PM (dcoFe)

381 "This was not a debate, it was a "let's defeat Rick Perry" MSNBC attempted murder of a candidate."
Posted by: ChristyBlinky at September 07, 2011 11:32 PM (fNdyx)


Bingo!

Posted by: prettypinkfluffypanties at September 07, 2011 11:54 PM (doj+Z)

382 Cantakerous says:

"I really do believe that rudy guiliani would be the right man for the job or that christie might be too. "

I've lived in NY, and NJ, and currently live in MA.

Despite all that, I'm a Patriot who opposes left-wing big-government ideology.

Neither Guiliani (who legitimately saved New York from the disaster that was the Dinkins New York, and who should have the equivalent of the Washington Monument in Central Park) nor Christie has the SLIGHTEST chance of winning a nationwide election, if by "nationwide" we include states outside of the Northeast.

Really, I mean it. Forget it. Both men have great strengths. But their weaknesses, however unimportant in NY and NJ, are huge barriers to the rest of the country. A Republican in NJ or MA or NY is very much NOT a Republican elsewhere in the country.

Mitt Romney is learning this to his chagrin.

Posted by: Boston12GS at September 07, 2011 11:55 PM (hvrPG)

383 People really dug greek columns at the time. Posted by: Reggie1971 at September 07, 2011 11:52 PM (0DGtF) yes, they did

Posted by: shoey at September 07, 2011 11:56 PM (m6OUa)

384 I hate to be this guy, but when evaluating the record of northeast repubs you really have to factor in the constraints they deal with. Some couching is required on some issues in some states. People give an MA Republican more leeway than a vet from freakin red-as-a-monkeys-ass AZ or his little buddy from even redder SC.

Posted by: BSR, LIVE from Canada at September 08, 2011 12:03 AM (0kk1w)

385 I really like Perry but I would also really like him to stop doubling down on this "ponzi scheme" talk. Yes, of course SS is a ponzi scheme. Yes, it's going to collapse anyway unless it's reformed. But old people want the Free Stuff they were promised, and they don't give a shit if they screw over my generation. And old people vote. Those are just the cards we've been dealt.

Posted by: Paul at September 08, 2011 12:05 AM (DsHk0)

386 BSR says: I hate to be this guy, but when evaluating the record of northeast repubs you really have to factor in the constraints they deal with.

WHY do I have to provide that context? They didn't wake up one day with those jobs in those geographic regions. They fought, HARD, for those jobs, knowing they'd be the nominally conservative governor with a massively liberal state (commonwealth) house and senate. They WANTED that job. They CHOSE that context.

Sorry, under those circumstances I get to judge them within that context. Mitt Romney has established residences in at least three states in the country, he could have run for governor in ANY of them. He chose to run for Governor in MA, because the prospects for winning there seemed best--and the needed political sacrifices were worth checking the "elected governor" box on his "how to be president" list.

And once he was in governor in MA, he did what he had to do to BE a Governor in MA--compromise with the overwhelmingly liberal state legislature and courts to establish RomneyCare, an incontestable disaster for the state (just check out the billions in state overruns).

Romney is a chameleon. Elect him if you want him to look shockingly different under changing lights.

Posted by: Boston12GS at September 08, 2011 12:09 AM (hvrPG)

387 Attaboy Romney, limit your options even before taking on the job. (you won't be getting it, but still...)

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at September 08, 2011 12:13 AM (dr4y0)

388

I watched the debate. Perry explicitly excluded from changes people who are currently or soon will be on Social Security. He spoke explicitly to the younger generation--people in their 20s and 30s--about the need to adjust expectations.

What fucking debate were you watching? How's that constitute Perry threatening older people's pocketbooks?

Or are there already liberal liars in the house (shocking, I know)?

Posted by: Boston12GS at September 08, 2011 12:14 AM (hvrPG)

389 Just for the record, when this many people say "I'm a Perry guy but he wasn't that great" I think we're missing the key. Perry folks were hoping for a "wow" factor. But I don't see people saying "Perry didn't impress but if he's the nominee I guess I'll vote for him" like we are with the other candidates.

Honestly, we'd take any of these guys over Obama but I don't think Perry hurt himself tonight. (Someone might want to send him the link to 'Watts up with that' but he didn't ding himself.)

Posted by: rhaubib at September 08, 2011 12:17 AM (2giRu)

390 Perry from the transcript:

PERRY: Well, I think any of us that want to go back and change 70 years of what's been going on in this country is probably going to have a difficult time. And rather than spending a lot of time talking about what those folks were doing back in the '30s and the '40s, it's a nice intellectual conversation, but the fact is we have got to be focussed on how we're going to change this program.

And people who are on Social Security today, men and women who are receiving those benefits today, or individuals at my age that are in line pretty quick to get them, they don't need to worry about anything. But I think the Republican candidates are talking about ways to transition this program, and it is a monstrous lie.

It is a Ponzi scheme to tell our kids that are 25 or 30 years old today, you're paying into a program that's going to be there. Anybody that's for the status quo with Social Security today is involved with a monstrous lie to our kids, and it's not right.

Posted by: tasker at September 08, 2011 12:20 AM (y8ni2)

391 Boston12GS

Yep-that's why I felt the need to go to the transcript.

And no way in hell the MSM is going to report it correctly.

Posted by: tasker at September 08, 2011 12:22 AM (y8ni2)

392 tasker, the mittens fans aren't concerned with anything resembling the truth.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 08, 2011 12:29 AM (t2cEH)

393 OK, then, let's bring it. We're all on the various blogs. Fight back against the inevitable meme, whether it be the SCOMF or that Stuttering Clusterfuck of Miserable Romney (SCOMR) TM).

The truth will set us free.

I'm serious about that trademark, by the way, after tonight's debate.

Anyone choosing to use "Stuttering Clusterfuck of Miserable Romney (SCOMR)"--for every use, send a dime to support Ace of Spades HQ.

Posted by: Boston12GS at September 08, 2011 12:29 AM (hvrPG)

394 Sort of a hollow vow; he can't do it as president to begin with (congress would have to pass a law) and even if he wanted to, there's not the political will. That's like saying you vow not to end the military.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at September 08, 2011 12:29 AM (r4wIV)

395 Oh, and the only people who care about how well anyone does in these debates are hardcore CSPAN watching political junkies. Doing OK is fine, as long as you don't say or do something really humiliating or that will be used as a weapon against you.

Posted by: Christopher Taylor at September 08, 2011 12:30 AM (r4wIV)

396 I will not vote for Romney, period. I'll vote Libertarian if he's the GOP pick.

Posted by: SFGoth at September 08, 2011 12:31 AM (FY1KV)

397 Dick Nixon

Well it looks like Mitt's biggest fans are the MSM right about now.

Posted by: tasker at September 08, 2011 12:32 AM (y8ni2)

398 389
Just for the record, when this many people say "I'm a Perry guy but he
wasn't that great" I think we're missing the key. Perry folks were
hoping for a "wow" factor. But I don't see people saying "Perry didn't
impress but if he's the nominee I guess I'll vote for him" like we are
with the other candidates.

Honestly, we'd take any of these guys
over Obama but I don't think Perry hurt himself tonight. (Someone might
want to send him the link to 'Watts up with that' but he didn't ding
himself.)


Posted by: rhaubib at September 08, 2011 12:17 AM (2giRu)
Yeah, you just described me, pretty much. I was hoping for a lot more, but Perry didn't make any fatal mistakes tonight. Even as craptastic and rambling and grasping as his AGW answer was, at the worst he just looked uninformed, and he has plenty of time to become informed. He needs to be better going forward, though.Mittens is a very good debater, and Newt was strong tonight. To bad you can't trust either of them any more than you can trust a magician.

Posted by: holygoat at September 08, 2011 12:35 AM (2ptZ1)

399 of course tasker,they are scared shitless of Perry.

Posted by: Dick Nixon at September 08, 2011 12:35 AM (t2cEH)

400 The goal is to get Obama out of office. We should never get Butt hurt if our candidate does not perform well.

Romney was better than Perry, tonight. Perry strikes me as a creature that learns as it fights. He will be fine.

I watched in disbelief as those moderator turds pitted everyone against everyone else except Huntsman. He was a cotton candy machine. He spewed fluffiness but had no substance. He is the GOP Obama.

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at September 08, 2011 12:38 AM (ZDUD4)

401 Newt rocked tonight.

But we know enough about Newt to know that he's not always on his meds.

And when he's NOT on his meds, he's making out with Pelosi on a couch.

Sorry, but that's a deal breaker for an executive decision.

If he wants to be an advisor to the President--well, that's up the President.

Newt's genius is that he has 100 brilliant ideas every day.

Newt's curse is that he also has another 900 crazy ideas every day, and he has no way to differentiate between the 100 good ideas and 900 crazy ideas. So SOMEONE has to be the filter. Newt simply CAN NOT be his own executive.

Posted by: Boston12GS at September 08, 2011 12:39 AM (hvrPG)

402 390Perry from the transcript:

PERRY: Well, I think any of us that want to go back and change 70 years of what's been going on in this country is probably going to have a difficult time. And rather than spending a lot of time talking about what those folks were doing back in the '30s and the '40s, it's a nice intellectual conversation, but the fact is we have got to be focussed on how we're going to change this program.

And people who are on Social Security today, men and women who are receiving those benefits today, or individuals at my age that are in line pretty quick to get them, they don't need to worry about anything. But I think the Republican candidates are talking about ways to transition this program, and it is a monstrous lie.

It is a Ponzi scheme to tell our kids that are 25 or 30 years old today, you're paying into a program that's going to be there. Anybody that's for the status quo with Social Security today is involved with a monstrous lie to our kids, and it's not right.Posted by: tasker at September 08, 2011 12:20 AM (y8ni2) even if he is saying it for purely political reasons, even if he doesn't really mean it, as long as he keeps making the correct arguement i will support him. it's the principle and he needs to expound on it,and explain why the whole idea of a government provided "safety net" is harmful to the human spirit, how it degrades and diminishesus and how that is not what God orNature intended for us, it's an unnatural state and that's why it always fails.

Posted by: shoey at September 08, 2011 12:40 AM (m6OUa)

403 Newt was the smartest son of a bitch on that stage, but he is a scumbag.

Posted by: Oldsailor's poet at September 08, 2011 12:41 AM (ZDUD4)

404 Things Perry Should Have Said.
Social Security is worse that a Ponzi Scheme. When a Ponzi scheme cant con new investors in sufficient numbers to pay the previous investors, it collapses. But when Social Security runs low on investorsalso called poor working stiffsit raises taxes.

Posted by: robtr at September 08, 2011 12:45 AM (MtwBb)

405 Newt won it in my opinion. But I thought he won the last one too. Just hoping like Ace that Perry might do better, but for his faults I might have to take another look at Newt. I would definitely have no problem if someone picked him as VP.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at September 08, 2011 12:45 AM (krs8G)

406 Oh and why was a democrat (Huntsman) in this debate.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at September 08, 2011 12:47 AM (krs8G)

407 They never did put up my comment that "Huntsmans is about to rip off his Mission Impossible face and expose himself as Barack Obama."

Oh well. :-(

Posted by: Boston12GS at September 08, 2011 12:49 AM (hvrPG)

408 MSNBC is hosting a vote about who won the debate, so far they've had 36 thousand people vote.

rumor has it that this was the most watched program on MSNBC no kidding. Can't wait to see if that's true it would be too funny.

Posted by: cantankerous at September 08, 2011 12:51 AM (k1rwm)

409 oh here is the link if you want to vote.

Posted by: cantankerous at September 08, 2011 12:52 AM (k1rwm)

410 Newt was the smartest son of a bitch on that stage, but he is a scumbag.

+10

Posted by: Waterhouse at September 08, 2011 12:59 AM (odrIx)

411 the Welfare State is the core of the statists power, take it away and they have no power and as long as they have it we will never win.

Posted by: shoey at September 08, 2011 01:00 AM (m6OUa)

412 411the Welfare State is the core of the statists power, take it away and they have no power and as long as they have it we will never win.Posted by: shoey at September 08, 2011 01:00 AM (m6OUa) check that - freedom and sanity win.

Posted by: shoey at September 08, 2011 01:01 AM (m6OUa)

413
aw screw it, i'm tired, you know what i mean

Posted by: shoey at September 08, 2011 01:03 AM (m6OUa)

414 Boston12GS: A Republican in NJ or MA or NY is very much NOT a Republican elsewhere in the country.



Mitt Romney is learning this to his chagrin.

What does this even mean, substantively?

The Republican brand isn't a winner anymore, not with the current polling. We win if the election isn't Republican Vs. Democrat, but about electing a leader, an individual. A Northeastern Republican might not be a Texan Republican, but that's not necessarily a bad thing if you want to actually win.

In 2012, with Obama polling as he is on issues that fall along the economic axis, not the cultural ones associated with the Bush 2004 paradigm, a southern cultural conservative is racking up voters in states that will go to the Republicans in any case while hemorrhaging suburban and exurban voters in moderate states in the midwest due to cultural issues. If we re-fight a 2004-like election, we lose due to the changing demographics of the West.

The idea is that the South holds due to overhelming Republican voter ID advantages and a strong Anybody-but-Obama current that outweighs the anti-Romney vote from the cultural idiots in the South. Romney can then use his moderate stances and economic capital on the Midwest and Rustbelt. We sit back, pray and throw lots of money at Virginia.

Posted by: Uriah Heep at September 08, 2011 01:04 AM (KaHVv)

415 even if he is saying it for purely political reasons, even if he doesn't
really mean it, as long as he keeps making the correct arguement i will
support him.

and thats how we got obama...

Posted by: Lifeisdeath at September 08, 2011 01:06 AM (OJS8S)

416 You know that Romney is really Obama in white meat-suit, right?

Again and again and again, I ask: When is Romney going to announce a primary challenge to Obama?

Considering the connection they have with Obamneycare, their other economic proposals sound remarkably the same--and equally not credible.

Do we really just want to vote for a caucasian Obama?

Just asking.

Posted by: Boston12GS at September 08, 2011 01:11 AM (hvrPG)

417 Perry didn't do so well. (Heartache)

But...he is way more mainstream than that lunatic Palin! (Snort)

The sad thing is, Romney is most likely our future.

Posted by: Pmzey at September 08, 2011 01:12 AM (pmzey)

418 If you honestly believe that Mitt Romney = Barack Obama with less melanin, then you are frankly too stupid to vote.

Posted by: Durka at September 08, 2011 01:13 AM (QjrRF)

419 Perry reminds me not so much of Bush but of Nixon. Watch a Perry speech. Watch a Nixon speech. See the similarity....

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Posted by: lusefer at September 08, 2011 01:31 AM (IeKXo)

421 Whoa the consensus is way harsh regarding Perry. I really didn't think he did that badly. If he is toast does that leave us with Romney? I have to say I'm not a fan. Of course I'll vote for him, but it will be like voting for McCain last time.

Posted by: The terrorist Hobbit formerly known as Donna at September 08, 2011 01:46 AM (zgEs1)

422 Ok, who broke the blog!?!

Just at the time I finally read all the comments, I can't add to the discussion!!

Thanks!

Posted by: JarvisW at September 08, 2011 03:58 AM (8yPsP)

423 Oh, and for those saying Perry was saying SS wrong... well, he wasn't pronouncing it incorrectly!

It IS So-So Security!!

Posted by: JarvisW at September 08, 2011 03:59 AM (8yPsP)

424 Being from Texas, and well educated...I agree with Perry on the whole global warming science isn't settled theme. Also have to agree that he is right on the whole evolution argument...it's still a theory...if there was proof it would be the law of evolution. Not saying it isn't right, just it's not settled. Oh yeah...SS is a friggen ponzi scheme as anyone with any common sense can see. So yeah Ace...go ahead and jump on the Romney band wagon...get an Obama lite elected. I'll stay here in Texas and we'll bring in the best and brightest from the rest of the country in search of jobs we've created...and then we'll close the borders and the rest of the country can lick the sack!

Posted by: Earnest Shackleton at September 08, 2011 05:53 AM (PzPlm)

425 So what if Romney said he would not abolish Social Security...Perry could have said the same thing. The idea that Romney is making stuff up because he won this exchange is ridiculous.

Perry wrote the book...he said that social security is a ponzi scheme...he said it was unconstitutional..he said states should have the right to opt out..so it is only reasonable for people to assume that Perry does not like or support or believe in the program. He said it..Romney is not making that up.

Now, the idea seems to be that it is the job of all the other candidates to ignore what Perry said and if possible to defer to him and to never ever make any kind of political hay out of Perry's comments..on the other hand Perry can say pretty much whatever he wants about anything and anyone else.

That is not a winning strategy. Perry opened himself up for these kinds of remarks, it is not the job of any other candidate to save Perry from himself. That is his job. There is no point in blaming Romney..if Perry can not handle some relatively benign push back from Romney...how can he handle the sort of stuff that Obama and the media will throw at him?


Posted by: Terrye at September 08, 2011 06:14 AM (j8jdm)

426 Not buying it Ace. You told us before that Romney is your guy because he is "electable". Now you want us to believe that in your heart of hearts you are rooting for Perry? Nope, you are walking the path of LGF. The access to these a-holes is changing your perspective.

Posted by: Doug at September 08, 2011 06:24 AM (+iUU8)

427 I had hoped for better from Perry, but he was still endearing... if a bull in a china shop can be endearing.

Romney on the other hand is so careful, so fearful of making a "mistake" that he will forever be the "eh" candidate. No one's going to looove him. Does it matter? I dunno.

Posted by: Yael at September 08, 2011 07:54 AM (uv0al)

428 I'm amused by the Perry backers being upset that the media took a snippet of his overall comments about Social Security and ran with it. Are you just now figuring out that's what the media does? In other news, the sun rose in the east this morning.

Some folks were under the delusion that Perry would just stride out on that stage and overwhelm the little people with his awesome awesomeness. Yeah. It doesn't work that way.

It will be interesting to see the polling over the next week to 10 days. Perry's learning curve is going to be very steep. We'll see how he does but it should be clear after last night that he isn't St George coming to slay the dragon.

He's a experienced state-level politico with an interesting and compelling story and no significant national political experience. It showed last night.

Posted by: trumpetdaddy at September 08, 2011 08:22 AM (dcoFe)

429 Slick Mitt can promise all he wants, but the math will end Social Security sooner or later. What the hell office is he running for, King of the Dump?

Posted by: Ken at September 08, 2011 09:37 AM (7yb9x)

430 If you honestly believe that Mitt Romney = Barack Obama with less melanin, then you are frankly too stupid to vote.

Amen x 1000

Posted by: Reggie1971 at September 08, 2011 09:40 AM (b68Df)

431 Perry is right about SS and you all know it, everyone knows it.

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