What I Got Wrong On The Aga Khan Matter

Robert Spencer has a post insulting me, which, who cares?, but also rebutting more Daniel Stern's claims about the Geller/Spencer charges in the "Dhimmi Teachers" matter.

I still think they are wrong, for reasons I'll lay out, but first, I need to correct something I said.

Robert Spencer is wrong when he says that I, and David Stein before me, misunderstood what "the curriculum" was. No, not in the way he means. Geller and Spenser want to call the seminar material taught to teachers "the curriculum;" I always understood that that was not what Stein was talking about. Stein was talking about a curriculum, or lesson plan, by a teacher who'd attended that seminar, prepared for his students -- his point was "if this is the end product of what came out of that seminar, it sure wasn't dhimmi."

But I did refer to it incorrectly as "the curriculum" by the definite article -- "the curriculum," as David Stern initially had.

That "the" is important, because there is a big difference between "the curriculum" -- the official, board-approved curriculum being taught to all students -- and "a curriculum" -- the lesson plan of one teacher who attended the program.

If this were indeed "the curriculum," this would be the slam-dunk I thought it was. But it's not. It's just one of many different lesson plans, prepared by teachers who attended the seminars.

There were other teachers; they may have (and probably did) have much more Muslim-friendly Religion-of-Peace feelgoodery in their own curricula.

We know from Wiltse's curriculum that there was no interference with the lesson plans, however. Witse's lesson plan is fairly tough on Muslims, and decidedly pro-Israel. So we know there was no enforced Religion-of-Peace indoctrination.

However, Geller and Spencer are focusing on what the teachers themselves heard here.

Now, looking at the sort of thing the teachers were taught -- it's the typical PC nonjudgmental soft-on-Islam sort of stuff. One thing Geller doesn't like is that the abstracts don't blame Islam for the Crusades; but my God, what was she expecting?

Can she point to any school-issued history book that says the Crusades were the fault of Muslims?

Now, indeed, this is all sort of weak PC stuff. But it's PC stuff of the perfectly routine variety. Academics teaching a course about Islam think Islam isn't too shabby; film at 11.

It's not the henny-penny turn-it-to-11 stuff Geller seems to think it is, but it is PC crap of the sort you always hear about Islam from any institution (any institution, that is, except those that are avowedly anti-jihad).

Let me give you an example of what I'm talking about.

You know, I trust, that Islam considers it part of, the successor to and culmination of, the Judeo-Christian tradition, right? And they believe that Jesus, for example, is a lesser prophet. Lesser to Mohammad, of course.

That's what they believe. By writing this, I have not become a dhimmi nor endorsed this idea. I have simply given you information about what other people believe.

Obviously, right?

Not to Ms. Geller. Here she is, quoting part of the abstract of the seminars about the history and philosophy of Islam, and then reacting.

Emphases here are in the original, for once:

[Quoting the abstract:] Prophet Muhammad has become the paradigm, or role model, who is worthy of being emulated. As God’s chosen prophet and messenger, he best embodied how to live a life in accordance with God’s will. In this sense, he and the prophets before him, including Abraham, Moses, Joseph, Jacob and Jesus, are perceived as exemplary muslims

[Gellar now, commenting:] The real question is, should our children be taught this steaming pile of propaganda? I would not want that dawah taught to my children in public school. I want a candidate who is up to snuff on this. Ahead of the curve would be ideal, but at least cognizant of it.

Are you serious?

Do you see what she is doing? She is either misunderstanding the quote, or cynically distorting it to create her latest round of Outrage!

What is the quoted material doing? It is explaining Muslim beliefs, same as I did a couple of paragraphs before that.

What is Geller claiming the material is doing? She is claiming the material is presented to teach teachers of the actual religious truth of the statement. She is claiming it is in fact a "dawhah," or invitation to prayer, or invitation to submission to the religion.

Did I mention this was a seminar for teachers, prepared with Harvard and UT at Austin?

Does she really not get that they would naturally discuss what Muslims believe? Given that that was the whole point of the seminar?

She either is cynically distorting, or credulously imagining, that a simple statement of what Muslims believe is an actual attempt to convert teachers to that Muslim belief.

Whereas 99.9% of the population sees a dry, academic statement of a religion's creeds, Pamela Geller sees a dangerous "dahwah" intended to indoctrinate teachers into Mohamaddan thoughts so they can then transmit their newly-adopted religion to the schoolchildren of Texas.

Look, I can't explain reality. Either you get this or your don't. If I say "Christians believe that Jesus was the Son of God and died on the cross in a sacrifice by which all the sins of mankind were transferred to him," I am not attempting to convert you to Christianity.

I am simply stating a fact: This is what Christians believe.

I do not know what is a more damning conclusion:

1) That Geller does not understand this, and actually believes this is a "dahwah" presented in an effort to convert people to Savage Mohamaddanism.

or:

2) That Geller understands this is in fact simply a statement of Muslim belief, but finds the mere recitation of that belief a "dahwah" so hateful as to not be fit for public mention, even in a seminar devoted to instructing teachers on Islamic history and beliefs

Go ahead; go over there; find the material. I read the stuff. Most of it is dry academic stuff. Other stuff is, as I conceded, "soft" PC twaddle which talks about how diverse and vibrant Muslim societies were and that sort of thing.

Like when you look up any country in the encyclopedia? Like Haiti? You're going to be told it's a diverse and vibrant culture.

By the way, you might want to give Geller a break and say, "Gee, Ace. I don't know. I see what you're saying, with that quote, but based on the way I read it, it doesn't expressly identify this merely as the belief of Muslims; it actually seems to flatly declare these things about Mohammad as being true. Maybe you shouldn't assume bad motives. Maybe it was just written ambiguously."

Oh, very good point. But it actually wasn't written ambiguously.

See, I haven't told you something --

Geller doctored the quote.

She doctored the quote to take out the prefatory part in the beginning that this is what Muslims believe, to make it sound like maybe, maybe this might be a dawhah.

Here is the actual quote as it appears on the site -- undoctored by Geller. The part of the quote Geller forgot to cite is in bold.

For millions of Muslims around the world, the Prophet Muhammad has become the paradigm, or role model, who is worthy of being emulated. As God’s chosen prophet and messenger, he best embodied how to live a life in accordance with God’s will. In this sense, he and the prophets before him, including Abraham, Moses, Joseph, Jacob and Jesus, are perceived as exemplary muslims,

Yes, that's right, the sentence began "For millions of Muslims around the world...," clearly indicating what followed was their belief. She instead cut that out, beginning with "Prophet Mohammad was the role model..."

If she had quote it accurately, it would have been obvious this was a simple, unobjectionable statement of fact about the centrality of Mohammad in the Muslim religion. And that wouldn't have seemed outrageous enough to readers, so Geller helpfully "modified" it for you. So you'd be nice and angry, and maybe more motivated to Stop Islamization in America, order your copy now.

Don't believe me? Look it up. Search for keyword "Jesus" and you'll see who's giving it to you straight and who's giving it to you crooked.

Do check out her quotes. And do wonder why, if this is obviously such dhimmi dawhaw dirty-dealing, she has to strain so much and doctor quotes to convince you of that.

Now, we've seen one lesson plan from a guy who went through the seminar. He seems unconverted to Islam. He is, by self-description, a devout Christian, and an unapologetic Zionist. This man would be unlikely to come away from a pro-Muslim symposium and start talking up the splendid conquests of Mohammad.

But knowing teachers, I'm sure most of them taught their kids a PC version of Islam. Although I'm pretty sure there were exactly zero Muslim converts.

Having conceded that, I have to point out a couple of things:

1, I have to point out again that even if the teachers met with some Religion of Peace blatherers, there was no interference in their lesson plans. Wiltse says so, and his own lesson plan seems to prove that. It may not seem tough to Robert Spencer, but it seems tough to anyone not named Robert Spencer or Pamela Geller.

2, the sort of teachers who would be inclined to teach Religion of Peace nonsense... well, I'm sure they did teach Religion of Peace nonsense, but I have to question: Absent this seminar, were they likely to teach otherwise? I ask: What were these teachers planning to teach about Islam in the first place?

Assuming that Geller doesn't really believe that the purpose here was not, in fact, to convert the teachers to Islam, these seminars might have encouraged the soft-headed liberal position that the Religion of Peace Wants To Be Your Friend And Gets A Bad Rap.

And while I can acknowledge that, I'm having difficulty imaging that they would have acted any differently in absence of these seminars. Or what teachers teach in any other state.

Wiltse seems to have taught as he would have anyway, for example.

It seems to me that teachers were invited to hear a PC lesson on Islam. then permitted to teach whatever they liked, either incorporating or rejecting those thoughts.

On to the Grover Norquist charge. Geller, challenged on her assertion that Rick Perry was a dhimmi, then offered this new evidence to buttress her case:

Yes, all Perry did was give a speech in partnership with Grover Norquist, and promote it on his website. Norquist heads up Americans for Tax Reform, and Perry’s tax-cutting message is redolent of Norquist’s influence. But Norquist also has deep and extensive ties to Islamic supremacists and jihadists, as I showed in the first commentary. That raises legitimate questions about whether or not Perry knows about, or cares about, or even endorses, that activity by Norquist. I certainly would refuse to speak at the same event in partnership with Grover Norquist – let alone promote it on my website. Shouldn’t Rick Perry have, too?

I responded:

Now, Norquist is widely known himself to be pro-Muslim; he believes they're a natural Republican constituency, and urges we make a move for them like Bush and Rove urge with Hispanics.

But Geller is trying to shore up her pathetic "Rick Perry's a Pro-Sharia Islamist Enabler" bullshit by linking him to the guy that everyone in DC is linked to in some way (fuck, even I was at his house five years ago).

Ummm... we're not allowed to talk with Grover Norquist anymore, Pam? Can't sign his anti-tax pledges? I guess all those conservative pols and wonks going to the Blankday Morning Meetings are, what? Jihadis, now?

Yeah. I'd say that just about takes care of all that.

Geller seizes on my mention of going to his house as I'm bragging. No, I'm not bragging. You have, not unexpectedly, missed the point.

The point is that you are engaging in Guilt by Association. This guy knows this guy, and this guy spoke with this guy, so this guy's a dhimmi.

We are moving several steps from actual jihadis here. The chain goes: Rick Perry met with Grover Norquist for anti-tax agitation purposes; Grover Norquist has an institute for Muslim outreach; some guys at that institute have connections to, at least, people suspected of being jihadis, or at least, in one further attenuated step, knowing jihadis themselves.

I can buy the chain of shame all the way until the point that people who know Grover Norquist, but themselves are not guilty of anything, are now culpable, simply because they know him and have not, as Spencer and Geller seem to prefer, ostracized him, denounced him, and cast him out of their circles.

My point in mentioning the Wednesday Morning Meetings is-- are those people dhimmis, too? That's a Who's Who of Establishment DC. Yes, I know, RINOs; but jihadist-enabling dhimmis?

Am I a dhimmi? Well, I know I am, for Spencer dismisses the entire magazine Commentary as "dhimmi" and surely I'm as dhimmi as they.

My point was that Grover Norquist -- whether he should or should not be cast out of Republican circles -- remains a DC fixture, and an establishment figure.

Is Michele Bachmann a dhimmi too? Or Mitt Romney? Or Newt Gingrich?

“I talk with [Mitt] Romney directly,” Norquist said. He mentioned that Rep. Michele Bachmann (Minn.) will be attending his Wednesday meeting this week and that Gingrich recently sent him an unsolicited statement strongly opposing backing down in the debt talks. For Norquist, any other position would be unacceptable.

How about Allen West, Paul Ryan, and Marco Rubio?

...Earlier this year, Norquist spoke at the Faith and Freedom Coalition Conference, along with Michele Bachmann, Allen West, Thad McCotter, Tim Pawlenty, Mitt Romney, Marco Rubio, Herman Cain, Paul Ryan, and Newt Gingrich.

Commenters tell me Geller is big on Sarah Palin. Well, okay then. I have to also ask: Is Sarah Palin a dhimmi too?

Yes, that is Sarah Palin shaking the hand of this dangerous Islamist-enabler. The article, dated June 15, 2011, says the picture itself was taken "last year," which means Sarah Palin was shaking the hand of this jihadi-symp during the same period when Rick Perry gave a speech with him.

Are we going to keep pretending that Grover Norquist is on a Terrorist Watch List and that anyone having any dealings with him is also suspect?

Or are we going to just say that Grover Norquist is a big DC Establishment players whom politicians routinely, and without considering the Jihad Implications, meet with?

Let's discuss the key man in this chain of guilt by association -- Aga Khan. This is the man that Perry is apparently friendly with (at least politician-friendly, which, honestly, I doubt means truly friendly) and with whom Perry did these alleged teachers' dhimmi-seminars.

Aga Khan has had the reputation of being a true Muslim Moderate, and an actual philanthropist.

Where would Rick Perry have gotten such an idea?

Well, if he had doubts about Aga Khan as late as May 2010, he would have found the worlds of noted Jihadism Expert Robert Spencer very reassuring indeed.

I must repost this exchange from a Front Page Magazine symposium hosted by David Horowitz.

One first speaker, a man named Furnish, read aloud a previous statement by Spencer to the effect that there was no such thing as moderate Islam, full stop, and then disagreed:

Furnish: I find myself in the curious (and somewhat uncomfortable) position of disagreeing with my friend Robert Spencer, for whom I have the utmost respect and with whom I almost always totally agree.

However, on this issue of whether moderate Islam exists, I think Robert may be missing something. He is exactly right that Sunni Islam–whence comes directly Salafism, Wahhabism and jihadism–promotes violence against non-Muslims in order to make Islam paramount over the entire planet. I have no quarrel with that stance. But I would argue that this is largely because within this majority branch of Islam the only acceptable exegetical paradigm regarding the Qur’an is a literalist one: and of course when passages such as “behead the unbeliever” [Suras 47:3 and 8:12] are read literally the good Muslim had better reach for his sword–or be rightly accused of infidelity to Allah’s Word.

However, perhaps because Robert is so well-versed in the theology of Islam, as opposed to the historical record of how that religious theory has been acted out on the stage of history, he seems to overlook the key fact on the ground that certain minorities within Islam have developed a non-literalist, even allegorical, approach to reading the Qur’an. Foremost among these moderates are the Isma`ilis, the Sevener Shi`is, whose global head is the philanthropical Aga Khan. Isma’ilis may number only in the tens of millions (out of the total Muslim community of some 1.3 billion, second only to Christianity’s 2+ billion), but they do exist and they define, for example, jihad not as killing or conquering unbelievers, but as economic development and charity work.

[Further discussion of some other moderate Muslim sects.]

Robert Spencer: In all this my friend Timothy Furnish, whose work I admire, is entirely correct.

That was reported May 27, 2010; the symposium itself would have, I assume, occurred no more than a week or two before.

Years after Rick Perry invited Aga Khan to put together a symposium on true moderate Muslims, Robert Spencer was still vouching for Aga Khan as precisely one of those true moderate Muslims. Only Aga Khan had been personally named as a moderate -- his sect and other sects had been mentioned, but only one man personally -- and Spencer agreed.

How did Jihadism Expert Robert Spencer make such a dangerous error? He now seems to think that Aga Khan is a stealthy jihadist; what has changed his opinion so quickly (and so recently -- he came to these fresh conclusions this past week)?

Well, Aga Khan, a very wealthy man, bought a bank in the past. Here is the unchallengeable evidence against Aga Khan, which now causes Robert Spencer to entirely reverse himself on Khan's moderation, and is in fact so powerful it prompts him to next accuse Rick Perry, who merely put together a Muslim outreach seminar for teachers with Khan.

The "new evidence" uncovered -- the evidence which as completely reversed Spencer in his deeply-considered expertise -- consists of Daniel Pearl's widow making an unproven allegation against the bank in, I think, 2002. For what it's worth -- I believe her. I tend to believe most allegations against Muslims, to be honest. I'm sort of bigoted now. Or, realistic. Whatever you want to call it.

But it wasn't proved. The case was dropped.

Now, two years after that accusation, Pakistan was looking to raise money to cover its debts; the bank is put up for sale, and Aga Khan buys it. A couple of years after that the bank enters into an agreement with the Federal Reserve to be monitored. At no point during any of this did anyone accuse Aga Khan of wrongdoing -- no US official, no foreign official. His cleanliness is vouched for by none other than Robert Spencer in 2010.

And now, with this purchase of a bank uncovered last week by Pam Geller, Spencer now decides that Aga Khan is dirty, and not only is he dirty, but damnit, Rick Perry should have known he was dirty and had he vetted him properly he would have discovered him to be dirty.

David Stern writes:

If it’s true that Habib Bank did not freeze the [suspicious] account, it happened years before the Khan Foundation bought into the bank. And the discussions between Perry and Khan that led to the development of the MHCP occurred in summer 2002, two years before the Khan Foundation bought into the bank! So what, exactly, was Perry supposed to find in 2002? What would his “vetting” have uncovered? If the answer is “nothing,” then how do you know Perry didn’t vet Khan?

Perry signed another agreement with Khan in 2009. By that time, the Khan Foundation had been majority owner of the bank for almost six years. So, again, I ask the question – what would a “vetting” have uncovered in 2009 (regarding any wrongdoing that had occurred at the bank once the foundation took over)?

If the bank was dirty after Khan took ownership of it, he probably should not have signed an agreement with the Federal Reserve (of the US) for the Feds to monitor the bank:

Here is the agreement that Habib Bank signed with the Federal Reserve. It’s quite exhaustive. The bank agreed to completely overhaul every aspect of its operations to be in full compliance with U.S. rules and regulations. It agreed to allow an independent firm (approved by the Fed) to thoroughly examine its new procedures. Furthermore, it agreed to allow the independent firm to examine all account and transaction activities from 2005 onward.

The Fed made clear that should any deficiencies be found, action would be taken against the bank. Although the results of the independent audit are not available on the Fed website, the Fed indeed took no action against the bank, implying that it found the examination satisfactory.

Obviously, there’s no way to tell for certain if any employees of any of the bank’s 1,500 branches around the world are engaging in illegal activities. But in the absence of any evidence, it’s foolish to pillory Rick Perry for his relationship with Aga Khan. Basically, it’s tantamount to saying, “Rick Perry, you oughtta be ashamed of yourself for occasionally associating with a guy who’s part-owner of a bank that I kinda have a hunch might possibly be doing something bad, even though I have no proof.” I mean, c’mon. That’s silly.

Based upon those findings -- let's say Rick Perry discovered this skullduggery, this dirty non-suspicious bank-buying behavior -- what does Spencer suggest he should have done?

Well, apparently he suggests he should have had no further dealings with Khan, upon receipt of this information.

The same as he and Geller now allege that Grover Norquist should have been cast out by Rick Perry. (And Bachmann, and Palin, and Romney, and West, and Ryan, and...)

Does this strike anyone else as extraordinarily weak evidence? This is very weak evidence to even put forward a suspicion publicly, nevermind insisting a series of public condemnations should follow.

And I stress: Not only do Spencer and Geller think this weak "evidence" is enough to damn Aga Khan, it's furthermore strong enough to damn anyone that is publicly friendly with Aga Khan.

That's how strong the case is in their book -- not only enough to hang the actual accused, by the accused's acquaintances, for associating with a known felon, or someone they should have known was a felon.

Spencer says Perry should have vetted him. Why? His good friend Furnish didn't when he praised Khan, and neither did Spencer when he gladly agreed with the praise.

Look, if this is the depth of the evidence that renowned Jihadi Hunters Geller and Spencer have been leveling against their accused, I think we need some new Jihadi Hunters.

This gets to the broader point I want to make.

For Geller and Spencer, how anti-jihad do you have to be to not be a dhimmi in their eyes? They seem to have denouncement fever.

And if their concept of "anti-jihadi" is so uncompromising as to mean we now have to cast out Allen West, Marco Rubio, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, and the rest of the 2012 presidential field, could it be that they, rather than those they accuse, are the ones in need of some perspective?

Watch what Spencer says about an error in the curriculum that I quoted. The error there is that the teacher, Wiltse, wrote that Islamic anti-semitism dates "at least" (that is, at least his far back) to the Nazis.

Now, I quoted that to indicate not the truth of the historical claim itself, but to note that this was not a soft-on-Islam lesson plan. I usually consider it to be pretty tough stuff when it's said "Part of your worldview was cadged from the Third Reich."

This is sort of an error, because Islamic anti-semitism dates from long before that; I say "sort of," because Wiltse says it dates from "at least" to the Nazi influence, meaning it could date from further back.

Well, it does. There doesn't seem to be much question about this.

But note the reason Spencer thinks this is an important correction which defeats the purpose I quoted it for -- that this was a tough-on-Islam lesson plan.

Ace clearly doesn't know the first, foggiest thing about Islam; after all, it's not the name of a porn mag or a brand of beer. If he did, he would recognize that the claim that "Islamic enmity toward Israel is complicated, but hatred of Jews and Israel can be traced at least to the success of Nazi anti-Jewish propaganda starting in 1933" is itself a whitewash. Islamic antisemitism didn't begin in 1933 or come from the Nazis; it's as old as Islam itself, going back to the Qur'an's designation of the Jews as the worst enemies of the Muslims (5:82) and Muhammad's exiles and massacres of the Jews of Arabia. See a full discussion of this question here.

Why does this matter? It's misleading. If you think that Islamic antisemitism is something they picked up from the Nazis after centuries of Islamic tolerance (more on that later), one will tend to think that it is something that is carried lightly among the opponents of Israel, and can be reasoned or negotiated away. This will lead one to support political solutions for the Israeli/Palestinian conflict like land-for-peace that not only cannot and will not work, but weaken Israel.

Ace doesn't know anything about Pamela Geller, either, or he would know that she has written about the Qur'anic roots of Islamic antisemitism, and so would recognize that bit about the Nazis making the Muslims antisemitic as a whitewash, also.

As I said, Wiltse's statement is in error. Yes, Islamic anti-semitism dates back much further back than the Nazis.

It is wrong, yes. But it is not complimentary.

For most, it seems like a very tough line to say that Muslims took part of their tradition of anti-semtism from Adolf Hitler's Holocaust Machine.

For Robert Spencer, it's deliberate "whitewashing." For Robert Spencer, only a dhimmi would imply that Nazis influenced Muslim anti-semitism; the determined non-dhimmi must always be perfectly clear that Muslims could teach the Nazis a thing or two about Jew-hating.

I have to grant this seminar, put together by Harvard and UT at Austin, was PC feel-goodery of the usual sort. (But not, as Geller alleges, some shocking descent into dhimmitude.)

But honestly -- in Spencer's view, calling Islamists Nazi stooges is coddling them.

It's not that I disagree with Spencer or Geller that I don't like the PC foolishness.

It's more that I am wondering how long they have lived on our Earth, and if they are enjoying it so far.

What Spencer and Geller both do is to erect a Standard of the Righteous that no one but a couple of fringe bloggers could possibly meet -- well, no one in public life; and few with steady jobs outside of blogging -- and then start up with the Ritual Denunciations of those falling short.

I've got bad news for Spencer and Geller: If you're waiting for a candidate who even approaches your outer territorial waters as far as stridency against Islam (and Spencer declares there is no moderate Islam, so it's fair to just say "against Islam"), then get comfortable, pour a drink, and get ready for a nice long sit.

To get the blessing of Spencer and Geller, we must:

Convict men based on the flimsiest circumstantial evidence, which by the way popped up last week. By the way, the evidence doesn't really have to be that strong because, you know, Muslim. There is no such thing as Moderate Islam, Robert Spencer says. So it's not like you really have to cross your t's on this one.

Then convict men who know that initial man based on the mere fact of (political) association.

Ignore one's own previous vouching for the men in question with a dismissive well I wasn't "partnering" with him, dear boy, I was just vouching for him publicly at a symposium entirely about the existence or non-existence of Muslim moderates, my alleged specialty, so of course I had no reason to be cautious with my praise.

Claim that merely engaging in what other people would call "outreach" to Muslims, previously deemed peaceful and moderate, as well as typical PC nonsense which is annoying at hell but the state of life here in the US, shows a pro-shariah dhimmi mindset.

Claim that a lesson plan that says Muslim anti-semitism is not due to a "cycle of violence" or to "poverty" or "defensive reactions against Jewish aggression" but instead partly due to Nazi Holocaust propaganda is a "whitewash" that lets Muslims off too damn easy.


Robert Spencer has said there is no such thing as Moderate Islam. Doesn't exist. Simply does not exist, is a lie.

Now, if Spencer's original statement was right -- and it seems to have taken very little indeed to return him to that original view -- then a certain series of policy choices flow from that.

Is he a thoughtful enough man to appreciate that? I assume he is, for I assume that any man as boring and ill-humored as he is must be somewhat thoughtful as a consolation.

But if it is true that there is no Moderate Islam whatsoever -- as Spencer and Geller seem to believe in their hearts, though Spencer is given on occasion to vouching for the moderation of Aga Khan-- and it is furthermore true that Islam is unreformable and incapable of being pushed to a less belligerent posture, then the policy choices are quite ugly.

This would suggest that the only way to protect ourselves is some type of mass-casualty global war combined with a series of laws (which would be unconstitutional at the moment, until we amend the document or start ignoring it) to sharply limit the freedom of movement of Muslims within the United States.

I do not say this to say "My God, look at what their horrid thinking will lead to!" I am not doing the Charles Johnson "Fascist!" thing.

I have considered this myself: What if the darkest conception of Islam is accurate? What then? What then? If we face an unending war of terrorism, what steps, almost unthinkable now, would it take to stop that war of terrorism?

What if we suffered not one 9/11 but a string of six of them, weeks apart, with no end in sight?

Horrors breed horrors in kind. (And one should always ponder the incredible restraint of the Israelis, who frequently do feature multiple 9/11's (on a per capita basis) weeks apart, and yet do not do the things I'm pretty sure I would advocate.)

But certainly I don't wish for any of that to happen. I hope that the Islamist war on the west winds down. I hope that some truly moderate Muslims begin speaking out and taking the terrorist-minded ones down a peg.

Is that naive? Shutting my eyes to the reality of the situation? Encouraging jihadists? Falling for their tricks? Becoming a dhimmi?

Perhaps.

But if Geller and Spenser have their way, we would declare, now, immediately, that even hearing information by scholars and representatives selected by a man Spenser himself vouched for as moderate and peaceful constitutes an unforgivable descent into dhimmitude.

This seems to select the option of permanent confrontation, because they seem to have ruled out any possibility of any way to avoid that.

Maybe there is no other possible outcome.

But shouldn't we at least be open to the possibility that something short of permanent total war of civilizations is possible?

I say again that I am not attempting to portray them as seething warmongers and "eliminationists," as the left likes to say.

This permanent, million-casualty war of civilizations scenario has occurred to me, and I haven't denounced myself for thinking about it.

It's a possibility one has to consider.

But I am saying that if there is a chance at avoiding such an outcome, well, we should probably do what we can to avoid it, shouldn't we?

If Rick Perry's minor bit of "let's be friends and try to understand each other" feel goodery and outreach is deemed by Geller and Spenser to be beyond the pale in terms of cowardly appeasement--

-- then what on earth policy would they suggest we pursue? If this minor attempt at bridge-building is an example of knuckling under Muslim aggressors (aggressors, mind you, vouched for by Spenser as being moderate and peaceful and progressive) and too much of a concession to the implacable, stealthy enemy within, then I'm afraid I need to be instructed as to what current policy options they suggest we pursue.

Because, until we actually are confronted, fully and finally, with some truly horrible choices, I'd sure prefer to do what we can to avoid those.

This is what I don't understand regarding Geller's and Spenser's current agitations: If this minor bridge-building is the action of a traitorous Quisling, then what is left but war of all on all?

I actually doubt, in the extreme, they would suggest such a thing. As unthinkable as that is to me, I'm sure it's unthinkable to them as well.

But I don't think either comprehends that when they begin claiming that even the smallest gestures at bridge-building with the Muslim community -- even if those gestures are doomed to produce no good results -- are "dhimmi," then I don't really see any policy choices except girding for war, external and internal.

I don't know if they think about this at all.

Maybe they just think about their next blog posts.

Posted by: Ace at 11:11 PM



Comments

1 20,000,000 words to say you effed up

Posted by: newrouter at August 27, 2011 11:15 PM (/ycAc)

2 My God, it's full of words!

Posted by: Dave Bowman at August 27, 2011 11:16 PM (sHRvB)

3 Well put. Now find and close that broken bold tag! (I think it's in the blockquote with the Timothy Furnish statement)

Posted by: Matt at August 27, 2011 11:19 PM (GpBls)

4 I killed Osama! I am anti-jihadi!

/or Anti-American, if you're a jihadi. I go both ways

Posted by: Prez One Gutsy Move at August 27, 2011 11:19 PM (z63Tr)

5 I think your next step should be to fix the formatting so that half the post isn't boldfaced.

Posted by: Abdominal Snowman at August 27, 2011 11:19 PM (qITqt)

6 Still, if she let you graze on her nice big boobies, she'd be your BFF..

Posted by: TexasJew at August 27, 2011 11:19 PM (+cOEs)

7 Ah, thank you.

Posted by: Abdominal Snowman at August 27, 2011 11:20 PM (qITqt)

8 This is actually sad, Ace needs help. Why are the co-bloggers not there for him?

Posted by: Zelda Starr at August 27, 2011 11:21 PM (4vsjd)

9 I read both Jihad Watch and Ace of Spades daily. There are very few other things I read daily.

I have so much respect for Robert Spencer!!
I believe in the integrity of both of you.
You're the kind of people who are humble enough to admit when you're wrong.

Love you guys, sniff...

I don't know Pamela Gellar, guess I'll check out her site sometime.

Posted by: Village Idiot at August 27, 2011 11:21 PM (utXSy)

10 the chick with the tits says bs about the english defense folks

Posted by: newrouter at August 27, 2011 11:22 PM (/ycAc)

11 What the hell? That's like what? 5000 words?..... and we don't even get a mention? No "great rack" or "fantastic milkbags " or nothing? Nada on the tatas?

This is not the Ace O'Spades we first met back in 2007...

Posted by: Pam Geller's Boobs at August 27, 2011 11:22 PM (1CXpM)

12 Quite a rebuttal. I would just have said, "Purity tests are bad mmmkay?"

Posted by: USCitizen at August 27, 2011 11:23 PM (VoMvU)

13 But I loved "I feel for you"..

Posted by: TexasJew at August 27, 2011 11:24 PM (+cOEs)

14 What is happening?????

Posted by: Zelda Starr at August 27, 2011 11:24 PM (4vsjd)

15 It could've been me, but it was you.

Who went and bit off a little bit more than he could chew

You said that you had it made, but you been had

The woman no good, no how, thinkin' maybe the blood is bad



Bad (bad) blood (blood)

The woman was born to lie

Makes promises she can't keep

With the wink on an eye



Bad (bad) blood (blood)

Brother, you've been deceived

It's bound to change you mind

About all you believe



From where I stand, it looks mighty strange

How you let a woman like that treat you like small change

I don't understand what you're lookin' to find

The only thing bad blood do is mess up a good man's mind



Bad (bad) blood (blood)

The bitch is in her smile

The lie is on her lips

Such an evil child



Bad (bad) blood (blood)

Is takin' you for a ride

The only thing good about bad blood

Is lettin' it slide

Posted by: Neil Sedated at August 27, 2011 11:27 PM (WCm02)

16 Pirates know stuff. Pirates know the Aga Khan Crew.
The Aga Khan Crew are pretty good guys. Some say they are moderates. The Pirate Community also thinks they are moderates.
Grover Norquist is not a moderate. Someday the Pirate Crew will figure out what he is. Until then he is best ignored. He is irrelevant, at least to Pirates.

Posted by: Pirate Pelf Lucre at August 27, 2011 11:27 PM (wN82N)

17 Is Perry in cahoots with our enemies? Fuck no! So, case close, Ace. All this is irrelevant to everyone except Juggs. And that's her problem -- not yours.

Posted by: mike at August 27, 2011 11:28 PM (4OBac)

18 I'm saddened and discourage to find Sarah Palin consorting with the enemies of all I hold dear.

Posted by: toby928™ at August 27, 2011 11:28 PM (GTbGH)

19 Geller and Spencer are idiots, and trying to cover their tracks by accusing others of worse errors in judgement.

Full disclosure: I've always been creeped out by P. Geller, and have little patience for her shrill self-justification and self-promotion.

P.S. She's not nearly as, um...attractive, as she seems to think she is. Adds to the creep factor by at least an order of magnitude.

Posted by: TH at August 27, 2011 11:29 PM (rvJrw)

20 Slipping a movie review into the middle would have lightened this post up.

Posted by: toby928™ at August 27, 2011 11:29 PM (GTbGH)

21 How much of his credibility is Robert Spencer willing to sacrifice for the unlikely prospect that someday he might beallowed to cop a feel?

Posted by: somebody else, not me at August 27, 2011 11:33 PM (7EV/g)

22 Ace: I realize a lot of what is on your blog because you have said so more than a few times over the years, Ace. But I also remember one of the Steves - the guy you were in college with calling you a tough guy who could handle himself in a fight. Am I remembering this wrong?

Posted by: mike at August 27, 2011 11:34 PM (4OBac)

23 I'm probably about 2/3rds of the way through or whatever so I'll just say this after reading that far. It seems Geller is very very much in favor of pulling guilt by association. Almost like someone else that likes to use guilt by association to call everyone racist and bigots...
Yep, definitely should refer to her blog as Little Green Jugs.

Posted by: buzzion at August 27, 2011 11:34 PM (GULKT)

24 Can we please call this one done and behind us?

Posted by: Guaman at August 27, 2011 11:39 PM (JFgTJ)

25 21
How much of his credibility is Robert Spencer willing to sacrifice for
the unlikely prospect that someday he might beallowed to cop a feel?

Umm.. obviously a lot?

/move over Allahpundit, there's a new Beta Male on the block!

Posted by: shibumi at August 27, 2011 11:39 PM (z63Tr)

26 So, a few clarifications, a weather report, and...no ONT?

I visit another time zone, and see what happens...

Posted by: DarkLord on the road! at August 27, 2011 11:39 PM (vkUBG)

27 8 This is actually sad, Ace needs help. Why are the co-bloggers not there for him?Posted by: Zelda Starr at August 27, 2011 11:21 PM (4vsjd)

Hey we've tried several times, but the ewok is wily and always manages to evade the traps and interventions we've set up. so far.

FYI don't eat the pecan chocolate fudge at the next AoSHQ Xmas party. And don't ask why.

Posted by: Mætenloch at August 27, 2011 11:39 PM (/3HNy)

28 What?

Posted by: pawn at August 27, 2011 11:40 PM (iMsF6)

29 testing the waters

Posted by: Dave in Texas at August 27, 2011 11:40 PM (PjVdx)

30 Very long. Still reading. Ouch my head.

Posted by: emaugust at August 27, 2011 11:40 PM (E8wmM)

31 well written.

well reasoned.

nicely done.

-

Posted by: BumperStickerist at August 27, 2011 11:41 PM (h6mPj)

32 Ace: Education about Muslims ad Muslim history takes a bit of time, and the ability to risk being called racist while tryingto maintain a politcal career. Most politicians aren't educated in the history of Islam to the degree needed, and are unwilling to risk their careers for something as from every day life as the history of Islam. This needs to change, because it looks like Islam is becoming a major player again.

Posted by: Arbalest at August 27, 2011 11:43 PM (Wh+YQ)

33 boo?

Posted by: The Dude at August 27, 2011 11:44 PM (M8yfa)

34 Ace,

A pithier way to make your correction would be, "Guys? Scratch "the" from "the cuuriculum, OK?"

I feel like you're writing all this for Geller. Because, frankly, the rest of us just want to know... Just how nice ARE her tits, anyway?

Posted by: CoolCzech at August 27, 2011 11:44 PM (niZvt)

35 Ahhh... post not ready.

Posted by: Arbalest at August 27, 2011 11:45 PM (Wh+YQ)

36 This is all a very strange attack given the liberals are apoplectic given the recent shift rightward of the Texas State Board of Education, which is an elected 15 member board. The Board was successful last year in forcing major rewrites of the Texas approved history books which is important nationally as Texas is the second largest market for textbooks.

Note - the board is elected, hence Governor Perry has little influence (other than campaigning for candidates) on curriculum. He does have influence over funding, though even this was infringed upon by the State Supreme Court in 2005.


Posted by: phreshone at August 27, 2011 11:45 PM (T3vCe)

37 Stop. Please. Important topic. Keep in mind how hard it has been for anti-Islamists to get their message out. There may be questions about how savvy Perry is re: Islamism in America. It's still early yet and not worth a blogger war. Let's everyone just keep an open mind for now. Respect and listen to each other.

Posted by: Connie at August 27, 2011 11:55 PM (AQf4c)

38 Other than that, Mr. Ace, how did you like the play?

Posted by: AmishDude at August 27, 2011 11:56 PM (73tyQ)

39 There is no way I'm seeing this movie.

Posted by: nickless at August 27, 2011 11:56 PM (MMC8r)

40 (which would be unconstitutional at the moment, until we amend the document or start ignoring it)

Start?

Posted by: AmishDude at August 27, 2011 11:58 PM (73tyQ)

41 Excellent logic there, Ace. Problem: PG and RS aren't really interested in logical arguments. They mostly just hate Muslims, and therefore denounce anyone who would say anything nice about any Muslim.

That's not a position you can reason someone out of, since it's not a position they were reasoned into in the first place.

Reason does not beat Emotion. Quite the opposite, sadly.

Posted by: RJ at August 27, 2011 11:59 PM (QjrRF)

42 And by the way, this was shorter than your average movie review. I'm disappointed.

Posted by: RJ at August 27, 2011 11:59 PM (QjrRF)

43 Ace I really appreciate these long posts. It's quite disappointing to see Spencer acting this way (Geller isn't a surprise), but oh well.

Thanks for having such a great blog for people like us to read; we really appreciate it.

Posted by: Jordan Phillips at August 28, 2011 12:00 AM (SGgk8)

44
Really good. Enjoyed reading this one a lot.
"But I am saying that if there is a chance at avoiding such an outcome, well, we should probably do what we can to avoid it, shouldn't we?"
I am with you there, but only to the extent that functional governments in Muslim countries work honestly toward that same avoidance.To date, they have not played their hands as though we are feeling threatened and murderous.

Posted by: Errol at August 28, 2011 12:02 AM (d2AYO)

45 En Fuego!

Posted by: that guy that shouts En Fuego! at August 28, 2011 12:04 AM (GTbGH)

46 Sorry Ace, what was the name of the movie?

Posted by: observer at August 28, 2011 12:04 AM (VzVQP)

47 39 There is no way I'm seeing this movie.
Posted by: nickless at August 27, 2011 11:56 PM (MMC8r)
But there are tits involved.

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 12:05 AM (GULKT)

48 I feel like it is my moron duty to go out and punch the crap out of Ace's blogger enemies. It can't be healthy. But it is a nod to the strength of the AoS moron brand.

Posted by: emaugust at August 28, 2011 12:06 AM (E8wmM)

49 41 Excellent logic there, Ace. Problem: PG and RS aren't really interested in logical arguments. They mostly just hate Muslims, and therefore denounce anyone who would say anything nice about any Muslim.

Actually it's worse that that: They also denounce anyone who hasn't denounced someone who said something nice about a Muslim. Which means that by Geller-logic a solid 40% of the morons here are unknowing dhimmis.

Posted by: Mætenloch at August 28, 2011 12:07 AM (/3HNy)

50 Ace, do you dictate or type? I think you are a typing type of guy and that was behemoth and well worth the read.

Posted by: Moniker at August 28, 2011 12:09 AM (TN7KL)

51 Bottom line: This whole thing tells us nothing about Perry but everything about Geller and more than a little about Spencer. Psst, I caught how you misspelled his name. Nice.

For those who didn't read Spencer's screed, he had a snarky remark about how Ace spelled Pamela's name as "Gellar".

But given Ace's...uh...interests, he was obviously thinking of another "Gellar".

Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 12:09 AM (73tyQ)

52 Jesus Christ, Lighten the fuck up Ace!!

Posted by: Garym at August 28, 2011 12:10 AM (/s9Ci)

53 The irony is that Gellar and Spencer seek to do to us what Chuckles Johnson tried to do to them: Play the seven-degrees-of-Kevin-Bacon game.

So, And I say this in the spirit of sophomoric frat boyism, both of them can fuck off.


Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 12:10 AM (9CM5J)

54 Norquist is someone to watch closely, pushing that Moslem shit.
Perry fucked up. Big deal. But he has good hair and played drums for ZZ Top, so he's got my vote.

Posted by: TexasJew at August 28, 2011 12:10 AM (+cOEs)

55 No. I do not represent nor hawk Audio Books.

Posted by: Moniker at August 28, 2011 12:11 AM (TN7KL)

56 Actually it's worse that that: They also denounce anyone who hasn't denounced someone who said something nice about a Muslim. Which means that by Geller-logic a solid 40% of the morons here are unknowing dhimmis.
Posted by: Mætenloch at August 28, 2011 12:07 AM (/3HNy)
Does Pamela like to ride bikes and tell people to buy her calendars too?

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 12:12 AM (GULKT)

57 Norquist is someone to watch closely, pushing that Moslem shit.
Perry fucked up. Big deal. But he has good hair and played drums for ZZ Top, so he's got my vote.

Posted by: TexasJew at August 28, 2011 12:10 AM (+cOEs)
You're full of shit.Perry was the lead singer of Journey.Google it.Of course, all of Journey's songs were halal...

Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 12:12 AM (73tyQ)

58 Sometimes you need an extended clip when you go guns high. Handle your business Ace.

Posted by: Ina_ginalship at August 28, 2011 12:12 AM (opinc)

59 Which means that by Geller-logic a solid 40% of the morons here are unknowing dhimmis.
Posted by: Mætenloch at August 28, 2011 12:07 AM (/3HNy)
Count me in the 60%

Posted by: TexasJew at August 28, 2011 12:13 AM (+cOEs)

60 Come on Ace, give us a break. Its F****ing Saturday night and all the faithfull M and M's have benn drinking. Shorter words, more pictures please.

Posted by: Hammer at August 28, 2011 12:13 AM (hVGDL)

61 Much ado about nothing - my kids could give a crap about school. Does that make me a bad parent?
To them school is about hanging out. Sure they do their work - barely - but the point is - they are not rushing to go learn about Muslims. And if some teacher brought that up they would say - Shut the fuck up. Kids are more interested in wearing designer clothes, having an iPhone & playing COD on PS3.
Sad but true. When you say to kids have you cracked a book they ask is that something you can smoke?

Posted by: izoneguy at August 28, 2011 12:13 AM (i6Neb)

62 Does Pamela like to ride bikes and tell people to buy her calendars too?

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 12:12 AM (GULKT)
No, just stare at my tits...(slap)...don't stare at my tits...(slap)...stare at my tits...(slap)...don't stare at my tits AND stare at my tits...For get it, Ace, it's Gellertown.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 12:14 AM (73tyQ)

63 I'm with ya Ace. What a fuckload of drama.

Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at August 28, 2011 12:14 AM (v1Si/)

64 Ace, it is futile tp argue with someone making an illogical argument.

Posted by: prettypinkfluffypanties at August 28, 2011 12:15 AM (x7Ly4)

65 Can I get a Classics Illustrated of this post?

Posted by: TexasJew at August 28, 2011 12:15 AM (+cOEs)

66 You left out the point that LPalin, Bachmann and West, to varying degrees have condemned radical Islam, most notably re the GZ Mosque, whereas Perry was silent on that point a year ago. Norquist was an easy mark, this is how let Alamoudi and company into White House counsels.

Posted by: captain smith at August 28, 2011 12:16 AM (1kwr2)

67 BTW wow she's really having a pity party over there. I think she really does like you, ffs, she can't stop talking about you.

Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at August 28, 2011 12:17 AM (v1Si/)

68 In other news, Astoria fucktards buy a bottle of water and make sure they have one working flashlight, and are now ready to check the "hurricane readiness" box.

It's gonna be a long week.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 12:17 AM (9CM5J)

69 My take-away on Ace's post:

1. Supporting Perry is hard work.

2. Norquist shook Sarah Palin's hand.

3. What the heck is the State of Texas doing supporting religious instruction in public school classrooms? I know Rick Perry loves his wealthy friends, but this is ridiculous.

4. New Belgium's "Trippel" tastes good and packs a punch.

Posted by: mrp at August 28, 2011 12:17 AM (HjPtV)

70
Oi, my eyes are now bleeding. Thanks for that, Ace.

My dead eyes aside, good piece - this conspiracy-by-association game that is starting to brew everywhere is getting absurd. 2010 once-allies now are responsible for some incredible smearjobs.
I'm not a Perry-supporter yet, but with crap like this, I'm beginning to lose respect for anything that these guys publish.

Posted by: californium at August 28, 2011 12:18 AM (vC7O/)

71 67
BTW wow she's really having a pity party over there. I think she really does like you, ffs, she can't stop talking about you.


Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at August 28, 2011 12:17 AM (v1Si/)
Naw, if she really meant it, she'd post a pic in stompy boots.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 12:18 AM (73tyQ)

72 65 Can I get a Classics Illustrated of this post?
Posted by: TexasJew at August 28, 2011 12:15 AM (+cOEs)
I think that might require a commisioned piece of art by CAC. It will involve a topless woman with "quit looking at my tits" written across her chest.

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 12:18 AM (GULKT)

73 My dead eyes aside, good piece - this conspiracy-by-association game
that is starting to brew everywhere is getting absurd. 2010 once-allies
now are responsible for some incredible smearjobs.

Forget it, it's primarytown.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 12:19 AM (73tyQ)

74 He loves me. He loves me not. He loves me.

He loves me!

*opens Trapper-Keeper and begins writing furiously*

Mrs. Pamela Ace. Mr. and Mrs. Wicket Ace.

*swoons*

Posted by: Atlas Juggs at August 28, 2011 12:20 AM (9CM5J)

75 What a post. And I read it all.
Robert Spencer has said there is no such thing as Moderate Islam. Doesn't exist. Simply does not exist, is a lie.
Yes, from my understanding, Robert says that there is no such thing as Moderate Islam because any muslims that we would perceive as moderate, not encouraging jihad, not preaching about hatred towards Jews, would not be following the teachings of the Qu'ran and would therefore not be considered muslims. Any muslim that really follows the teachings of the Qu'ran isn't going to be a moderate.
I have considered this myself: What if the darkest conception of Islam is accurate?
I believe the darkest conception of Islam is accurate. That's not to say that I don't think there are a large mass of muslims out there more concerned with feeding their family on a weekly basis. I think there's probably a large number of muslims just stuck, going through the Islamic motions since they're in Islamic crapholes and to not follow along is going to get themselves or their family hurt.
That being said though, Islam as an ideology needs to be destroyed.
Consider the Isma’ilis you mentioned. They sounded like a nice moderate group of muslims. But what do this nice group of people think should happen to me when I point out, even respectfully, that when their 54 year old Prophet Mohammad married6 year oldAisha and then had sex with her when she was 9 years old, he was kind of acting like a child-raping pedophile?
Are we ever going to get to the point where muslims aren't going to want to kill me for insulting their prophet? Are they going to mellow to the point where I'll get a slap on the back and they'll comment "Yeah, Mo was kind of screwed up. Even ifAisha had nice developing boobs and was wearing shorts with 'JUICY' stamped across the bottom, 9 years old was a little young." It's highly unlikely.
So is the rest of the world supposed to tiptoe around Muslims, never allowed to disagree or debate without fear of violence. Uh, yes. That's our default position right now. Islam can't accept ANY criticism of the prophet without resorting to violence.The prophet was a murdering, thieving, lying, conniving child-raping pedophile. Getting those two circles to overlap and find the peaceful area without violence between the two is impossible.
When you combine Islamic fanaticism with weakness in the West; the erosion of families, education, militaries, media; collapsing Western economies; huge numbers of muslims imported into Western countries; the collapse of the welfare states giving money to those muslims; Iran's desire to wipe Israel off the map; Israel's desire to stay on the map; suicidal energy policies making us more dependant on Middle East oil than we need to be, violence is pretty much inevitable.
What then? If we face an unending war of terrorism, what steps, almost unthinkable now, would it take to stop that war of terrorism?
Here's some unthinkable steps.
1. Have our governments, media and schools take a critical look at Islam. A real look. Look at the violence, how women are treated, how children are treated, how slavery is still permitted and how Islam is pretty much the one common thread related to terrorism.
2. It's kind of hard to list 12 steps when you know the first won't voluntarily be taken soon.

Posted by: Stateless Infidel at August 28, 2011 12:20 AM (GKQDR)

76 71

Naw, if she really meant it, she'd post a pic in stompy boots.
<hr>

Well he never linked to her stompy boot pics before so she has to throw a big stink first, ya know? Obviously Ace isn't like the other boys, so she's trying something new.

I'm pretty sure I watched the same thing go down earlier this year between a couple of dramatic neighbors. Of course, they were mostly drunk. This chick seems crazy.

Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at August 28, 2011 12:21 AM (v1Si/)

77 I'm a little disappointed Ace didn't end with: "Robert, kindly fuck off".

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at August 28, 2011 12:21 AM (nRTou)

78 ace, you give them too much credit. As I asked some other gellar-bot asshole: What, other then glassificaton, do you propose to do with Islam?

I was called a dhimmi.

BTW: you should ask her if she'd let you fuck her tits if all could be made better. AoSHQ Lifestyle Taqiyah!

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at August 28, 2011 12:21 AM (AWahI)

79 If an Ewok and a Hysteric Cougar start dating, who humps whose garbage?

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 12:22 AM (9CM5J)

80 I'm done with both Geller and Spencer. They have no problem launching attacks on other Islamic critics and anti-jihadists without any facts. They care more about themselves then anything else.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 12:23 AM (GZitp)

81 War and Peace called to say: "Good lord that was long."

Posted by: jimmuy at August 28, 2011 12:23 AM (JRjWw)

82
Mr. Ace....... I hope you are treating yourself to the most sinful donuts of your choice right now. My blood sugar went down just from reading all that, so you must be exhausted.... Damn well said, too.imo.
Since Iwas nice to a muslimlady at the grocery store the other day........then Imust be a dhimmi too, huh.

Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at August 28, 2011 12:24 AM (DMb7S)

83 You know the tentacles in the White House have scores of people scrutinizing important blog sites.
I laugh when I think about this; itching to uncover "soft spots" and then bounce. NBC, ABC, CNN, MSNBC, and now Fox ( I gave it up altogether probably over a year ago ---they went south, every single time I turned on the damned t.v. there was the eye-liner Shepard Smith, then O'Reilly with his truly aloof attitude, Krauthammer has some good days, but mostly bad). I guess I am reluctant to admit that the very fear I was brought up upon - state controlled media -- could never, would never happen in this country.

Posted by: Moniker at August 28, 2011 12:25 AM (TN7KL)

84 http://tinyurl.com/3kkw9pm


Just three years ago Larry Summers got bounced as president of Harvard over the same heresy as Wilson’s. He’s at a small academic conference, fifty people, and the question is, why are there so few women in high-level positions in science and engineering? And Summers brings up—not advocates—just brings up—the theory that it’s due to evolutionary differences between men and women, which was exactly Wilson’s assumption. Genetic theorists had had this idea lying on the table, out in the open, for forty years. Nevertheless, a stone-cold feminist from MIT, a biologist named Nancy Hopkins, bangs her laptop shut and storms out as noisily and obviously as possible, complaining that she has only three choices, blacking out, throwing up, or escaping the sound of Summers’s voice. I couldn’t believe what happened next. The Harvard faculty mutinies in a Burning of the Reichstag riot—if we must bring the Nazis into it—howling, “SUMMERS MUST GO!” The next thing you know he capitulates, caves in completely, apologizes for his sins—and gets bounced anyway. Unbelievable stuff.

Iannone: Yes. You think he could have resisted? He should have stood up more forcefully?

Wolfe: No question about it. They weren’t attacking him on intellectual grounds but on religious grounds. They were treating him as a heretic, a transgressor. They were assaulting his character. We learned how to deal with that one in our sophomore year at St. Christopher’s. If someone impugns your character, you can’t waste time trying to defend it. You’ll just end up sitting there wringing your hands and bleating something lame like, “I am, too,a good person.”

Iannone: So you should do what instead?

Wolfe: Attack the attacker. Attack his—in this case, their—character. All he had to say was, “I cannot…believe…what I am now witnessing…members of the Harvard faculty taking a grossly anti-intellectual stance, violating their implicit vow to cherish the free exchange of ideas, going mad because a hypothesis that has been openly discussed for almost half a century offends some ideological passion of the moment, acting like the most benighted of Puritans from three centuries ago ransacking all that is decent and rational in search of witches, causing this great university to become the laughingstock of the academic world here and abroad, sacrificing your very integrity in the name of some smelly little orthodoxy, as Orwell called beliefs like the ones you profess. I’m more than disappointed in you. I’m ashamed of you. Is that really how you see your mission here? If so, you should resign…now!...forthwith!...and take to the streets under your own names, not Harvard’s, and forbear being so small-minded and egotistical as to try to drag Harvard down to your level. Ladies, gentlemen…kindly do not display your ignorance…on these hallowed premises…while holding aloft the flags, the standards, of this university. Be honest with yourselves, even if you can’t be honest with Harvard. Look…think…and see…what you have become.” That would have taken care of the whole thing.

Posted by: Twoslaps at August 28, 2011 12:25 AM (Bo7bD)

85 I'm still absorbing the fact that we're debating whether Rick F. Perry is a muslim sympathizer. This might really confuse the cable watching crowd if it gets enough momentum.

Ace - love the work you do. Don't let this bother you too much.

Posted by: Dave S. at August 28, 2011 12:25 AM (UvR6d)

86 In terms of the guilt by association, which was the entire point of the post.
The part of me that really respects Mr. Spencer wants to attribute this entire scenario on some sort ofdifference of definitions. I was going to explain more but it's half past midnight. Good night all.

Posted by: Stateless Infidel at August 28, 2011 12:26 AM (GKQDR)

87 Perry can afford to ignore this simply because Pamela Geller has marginalized herself with her own rhetoric - "appear in public with any Muslim = dhimmi."
Sorry to say that Spencer's joined her. And once again, I hate to bag on Spencer, but he's done this to himself at this point. Geller's always been a shrieking harpy of anti-dhimmi correctness and now he's shackled himself to her leg on this issue. He should know better.
Robert, please try to see the forest of anti-jihad through the trees of your friendship with Pam and stop shooting your own troops because she's gone off her rocker. Until and unless she retracts or simply goes silent on this issue, her credibility is tortured and you will lose hearts and minds in defending her (as you have damned nearly lost mine, after reading every book you've written and agreeing with what you had to say).
If you or Geller think anyone who blogs on this site, Ace or otherwise, or 99% of the commentators, are sympathizers with jihad, I am frankly done with you.
PS Robert - mo one on the right is talking with Norquist re: any other issue but the economy. If you have any proof otherwise, kindly share it with us. Otherwise, this loose association bullshit is the same thing that you dealt with re: FITNA and the other BS with CJ (associating with "racist" groups), and I'm shocked that you'd put someone else through the same wringer.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 12:27 AM (yK8YH)

88 KHAAAAAANNNNN !!!!

Posted by: Pamela's Bra Clasp at August 28, 2011 12:28 AM (Y+DPZ)

89 I think she has a thing for Shaygitz Ewoks.

Posted by: TexasJew at August 28, 2011 12:28 AM (+cOEs)

90 Yeah, I remember that time Rick Perry did the call to prayer from a minaret and Texas Rangers started collecting jizya tax at gunpoint from everyone traveling on the Houston beltway.

Meanwhile....tell me who is the greater threat to the country, you know who and his band of 8th grade locker victims masquerading as a government or the Aga Khan who, when last I checked, was somewhere in the 3 billions in line for a position of power within the United States?

Priorities: They're what's for dinner.


Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at August 28, 2011 12:30 AM (7utQ2)

91 We are moving several steps from actual jihadis here

NOOO I'm being replaced with 6 degrees of Grover Nordquist!

Posted by: Kevin Bacon at August 28, 2011 12:30 AM (oxYYm)

92
I need a vacation.

Posted by: Ace's Keyboard at August 28, 2011 12:31 AM (F2lG1)

93 Thank you for the kind words, Good Readers.

In fact, it was atrociously written. I have been cutting and changing it for 20 minutes now.

Sorry about this-- it really wasn't ready. But I'd been writing it for damn hours.

Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 12:31 AM (nj1bB)

94 79: That question may haunt me all night. Fortunately I have 4+ hours before the bars close in Diego.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 12:32 AM (yK8YH)

95 Ace, I'd tell you to rise above it, but you're already there. And they think it's raining.

Posted by: Breaker19 at August 28, 2011 12:34 AM (WCm02)

96 Pam ... Pam .... PAM !!!!

Posted by: Cosmo Kramer at August 28, 2011 12:34 AM (Y+DPZ)

97 To sum it up, Rick Perry is opposed: by the liberal media, the Democrat establishment, private unions, public unions, plaintiffs' lawyers, environmentalists, liberal arts professors, the perpetually unemployed, Paulbots and Palinistas.

Not to be left out he's also rabidly opposed by cocooned, bored and inexperienced "Libertarian" bloggers.

Sounds to me like the perfect candidate.

Posted by: Tsar Nicholas II at August 28, 2011 12:35 AM (iRlbA)

98 Posted by: Stateless Infidel at August 28, 2011 12:26 AM (GKQDR)
Well, yes, according to Mr.Spencer everyone needs to be a complete fucking paranoid about who they associate with on _any_ level or they are dhimmi.

Let's totally fucking ignore what dhimmi means...paying tribute to save oneself from the blade...and just apply it to those who don't happen to think genocide is appropriate.

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at August 28, 2011 12:35 AM (AWahI)

99 then I don't really see any policy choices except girding for war, external and internal.
What can we do to forestall such a grim future? Anything?
Convert.

Posted by: meleager at August 28, 2011 12:35 AM (iSQB2)

100 Regarding the Nazi-Islam anti-semitism connection: Didn't the Nazis reach out to the Iranians before/during WW2? I believe there is some connection between the names "Iran" and "Aryan". I think Beck went on some rant about this before...

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at August 28, 2011 12:35 AM (nRTou)

101 Well, yes, according to Mr.Spencer everyone needs to be a complete
fucking paranoid about who they associate with on _any_ level

If we did that NO ONE WOULD BE HERE.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at August 28, 2011 12:36 AM (7utQ2)

102 i read it all ! Ol spenser sure likes him some insults eh?

Posted by: The Great Satan's Ghost at August 28, 2011 12:36 AM (UrPTC)

103 Anyone think that Ms. Jugs was hoping to get a blog war out of this to help drive traffic. I bet she's really pissed Ace is taking a rather polite method of beating her down.

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 12:37 AM (GULKT)

104 Doesn't the LA Times have a video of Perry toasting a known terrorist sympathizer? Or am I thinking of someone else?

Posted by: Breaker19 at August 28, 2011 12:37 AM (WCm02)

105 Sorry about this-- it really wasn't ready. But I'd been writing it for damn hours.





Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 12:31 AM (nj1bB)
It's like a doctoral thesis. It's never finished, it's just abandoned.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 12:37 AM (73tyQ)

106 I used to be a fratboy, so I'm cool with it.
Kegger!

Posted by: TexasJew at August 28, 2011 12:37 AM (+cOEs)

107 103
Anyone think that Ms. Jugs was hoping to get a blog war out of this to help drive traffic.

I don't think she started it, but I think that's the goal now.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 12:38 AM (73tyQ)

108 Doesn't the LA Times have a video of Perry toasting a known terrorist sympathizer? Or am I thinking of someone else?
Hearsay.

Or locked in some nitwit intern's desk drawer.

Layers of fact-checking and shit.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at August 28, 2011 12:39 AM (7utQ2)

109 I flew to New York many times so I could park outside Pamela's house and stake out which Nazis and racists were coming and going.

They were all blonde and muscular, so they must have been racist. I was going to climb into the trees in back to see who was in her bedroom, but the bitch called the cops on me and whipped out that silly restraining order

Posted by: Cahrsel Jhonsno at August 28, 2011 12:39 AM (Y+DPZ)

110
Meanwhile, Stein's bait-and-switch presentation on the Perry/Aga Khan curriculum has not just fooled a lout like Ace, ...

Ha ha - he called you a lout!

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at August 28, 2011 12:39 AM (+JhHG)

111 This is strike two against spencer, a guy who I used to really respect. A while back he was on some crusade about his material being "stolen" by Glenn Beck (when it was infact cited). It seems his message is clouded by ego and chronic constipation.

As for Geller, meh, was never a fan.

Posted by: BSR at August 28, 2011 12:39 AM (BH4RQ)

112 On Geller-

She's concerned with people commenting about her jugs or just thinking of them.

She has no "jugs" to be worried about (a padded wonderbra pushing you to a large B cup? Really?)

If she is disconnected the reality of something physically attached to her, there isn't really anything else that needs to be said about her reason and writing.

Posted by: CAC at August 28, 2011 12:40 AM (JEVge)

113 I"m having flashbacks to high school, Jesus.

Posted by: MissTammy at August 28, 2011 12:40 AM (SsG4J)

114 **if she is this disconnected from the reality.

God I wish I had grammarcheck...

Posted by: CAC at August 28, 2011 12:40 AM (JEVge)

115 I never really followed Ms. Atlas, but I did appreciate her anti Muslim-terrorist stance. That being said her vendetta on Perry seems odd. Just my 2 cents worth....

Posted by: The terrorist Hobbit formerly known as Donna at August 28, 2011 12:41 AM (OVCfn)

116 She has no "jugs" to be worried about (a padded wonderbra pushing you to a large B cup? Really?)

That's how it works for me.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 12:41 AM (73tyQ)

117 It's well past time to stop shooting our own soldiers.

I'm most disappointed in RS. He needs to stop digging and move on.

Posted by: JIMBO at August 28, 2011 12:43 AM (jCxjL)

118 103
Anyone think that Ms. Jugs was hoping to get a blog war out of this to
help drive traffic. I bet she's really pissed Ace is taking a rather
polite method of beating her down.


This. I also suspect she wants some validation from Ace, hence the boob thing. Obviously he didn't give her what she was looking for when they met and it bothers her.

Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at August 28, 2011 12:43 AM (v1Si/)

119 A "lout" you say!

Next, they'll be calling you a dunderwhelp and a fustilarian.

Box their ears, I say.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 12:44 AM (73tyQ)

120 You're introducing me to so many fun new friends, Ace. This right-wing Maureen Dowd, this ivory tower snob enchanted by the heady elixir of his own farts, and World Net Daily! Not that I plan to check any of them out, any more than I'll attach a #p2 to a Tweet or read LGF. But it's good to know there are crazier people out there than I.
Life's too short for people that wear you down with browbeating shrieks. Life is enhanced by the Moron Nation.

Posted by: Francis Urquhart at August 28, 2011 12:45 AM (B29JY)

121 I'm most disappointed in RS. He needs to stop digging and move on.

Posted by: JIMBO at August 28, 2011 12:43 AM (jCxjL)
The first rule of Pamela Geller's holes...

Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 12:45 AM (73tyQ)

122 The people that choose to study Islamic history and some theology, like Spencer, see the unbridgable gap between the West and Islam, and history in on their side. Life for non-Muslims in Muslim lands only degenerates. Always. Everywhere. We are seeing this in Egypt right now. The gap is unbridgable; it's one way or the other. Coexistance in the same land is not possible with followers of Mo.
We hear a lot of victimization claims by Muslims, the people who perform FGM honor killings have committed 16,000+ terrorists acts world-wide since 9/11, the co-religionists of the murders responsible for 9/11, and our politicians end up treating them like an oppressed minority (Saudi money .... ?). But it's not us, it really is them.
We need to deal with this problem, and Spencer is an excellent resource. Unfortunately, Spencer and company are a bit strident, and paint with an overly broad brush, and Pam .... , and it's a problem. Some re-engineering of their message delivery is needed. They need to do it.

Posted by: Arbalest at August 28, 2011 12:46 AM (Wh+YQ)

123 Just wondering...Geller is a whack job. Why is this blog legitimizing her?

Posted by: random at August 28, 2011 12:46 AM (PUpEa)

124 75: If you take that hard look and label it as "what Islam believes" no one will listen to you outside of our own choir. A vast majority of Americans believe that the entire world population shares our motives and goals. You and I know thata large plurality in theIslamic world largely doesn't. But Rick Perry (my candidate) or any other presidential candidate, has to win a national election in which a large number of voters are either Islamic or sympathize with them.
Ace is dead on right in saying that what Geller is espousing is dangerously toe-ing the line between anti-jihad and anti-Muslim.
Cain, for all that he probably didn't want the role, is the "anti-Muslim" candidate, due to his own irresponsible rhetoric. Are you saying the other candidates should follow suit ? Is acknowledging the possibility of moderate, peaceful Muslims so airy-fairy that it earns you minutes of hate, or makes you some kind of co-conspirator ?

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 12:46 AM (yK8YH)

125 I cant tell if this is just Palinista fever run amok, or if some major voices in the anti-jihad movement have gotten to the point that their definition of "dhimmi" is becoming akin to Cynthia McKinney's definition of "racist".

Posted by: BSR at August 28, 2011 12:46 AM (BH4RQ)

126 Ace, great post. Just one small quibble with it.

I think I understand Geller's/Spencer's objections to the supposed "whitewash" of the curriculum by suggesting that Muslim antisemitism was influenced by Nazi propaganda. I don't think they are objecting to the severity of the comparison, but to the lack of depth that it represents - Muslim antisemitism is deeper, it is faith-based, from the Koran, but Nazi antisemitism is more superficial, based mainly on scapegoat-ism. It doesn't have the deep, religious roots that Muslim antisemitism has.

I wouldn't call the teacher's lesson plan, though, a "whitewash", just an observation really, that Muslim anti-Semites and Nazis have something in common. It's certainly not something to go ape-shit over.

Posted by: chemjeff at August 28, 2011 12:47 AM (s7mIC)

127 Why are we legitimizing A FUCKING CRANK?

This is like linking to a Paulian. She is obsessed with the "islamification" of the nation and is now casting a wider and wider net for who qualifies as a co-conspirator, willing or otherwise. It is the same idiocy I see with 9/11 truthers. With the Trig birthers. With the Obama birth certificate loons.

She LOOKS LIKE A TOTAL FUCKING SPAZ.

The best thing that can be done by RS/AoS/HA/etc is to ignore this clown, or just start making parody posts. You have done the smart thing already, Ace. She keeps it going, just ignore it or put a big effing mirror on the lunatic.

Posted by: CAC at August 28, 2011 12:49 AM (JEVge)

128 Well as the father of an 11 year old and with a supershitty leftoid educational bureaucracy in this state, I am animalistically concerned about any stupid efforts to bridge gaps and all that.
Perry fucked up. We Texas parents don't want anycreepy multicultural Islamicreligious shit near our kids as far as any curriculum.And, as a parent of a little Jewish girl, I am triply concerned.
I agree with Geller insofar as this is an issue that Perry needs to address.
Still, he has my vote.

Posted by: TexasJew at August 28, 2011 12:49 AM (+cOEs)

129 Here's what I don't get: Spencer and Geller say there's no moderate Islam. Well, I keep reading about terrorist plots foiled in the U.S. The reports always say that Muslim citizens alerted the feds, who then provided an agent who posed as an al Qaeda terrorist to sell the would-be jihadists guns or teach them how to build bombs.

These federal undercover agents are all Muslims. They have to be, because the would-be terrorists are devout Muslims who quiz them. Some of these agents have fooled actual al Qaeda terrorists.

So, we have Muslims alerting the feds about plots, and then Muslim undercover agents set up the terrorists for arrest.

Is this not evidence of the existence of moderate Muslims?

Posted by: Llarry at August 28, 2011 12:49 AM (jyUxu)

130 Jesus Christ, Ace! How long dies it take you to write these? That's a lot of copy. I can take half an hour to compose a three sentence email. Are able to to type away at the speed of thought when you get going?

Posted by: Serious Cat at August 28, 2011 12:49 AM (bAySe)

131 Needs more scoamf.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at August 28, 2011 12:50 AM (5I0Yr)

132
Regarding the Nazi-Islam anti-semitism connection: Didn't the Nazis
reach out to the Iranians before/during WW2? I believe there is some
connection between the names "Iran" and "Aryan". I think Beck went on
some rant about this before...

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at August 28, 2011 12:35 AM (nRTou)
The Nazis engaged in a mass propaganda effort reaching out to Muslims in the Middle East during WWII. They also sent arms and money to Haj Amin al-Husseini (Mufti of Jerusalem and leader of the Arabs in the British Mandate of Palestine) for a few years before the war, helped trigger a pro-Axis coup in Baghdad in 1941 (which al-Husseini took part in), and then used al-Husseini to recruit Muslim troops from the Balkans for the Waffen-SS (he also contributed to their propaganda radio broadcasts).
There have been a number of books on this subject published in recent years, including Jeffrey Herf's Nazi Propaganda for the Arab World, Matthias K

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üntzel's Jihad and Jew-Hatred, and Mallmann and Cuppers' Nazi Palestine: The Plan for the Extermination of the Jews in Palestine.

Posted by: DKCZ at August 28, 2011 12:51 AM (gjsMD)

133 I'm too drunk to read all this, so are we going to war or what?

Posted by: Not Drinking Nearly Enough at August 28, 2011 12:51 AM (JEvSn)

134 You're a dhimmi! You're a dhimmi! The whole trial is a dhimmi! They're a dhimmi!

Posted by: Pamela Gellar Movie Quotes at August 28, 2011 12:52 AM (veZ9n)

135 I just *knew* I was going to get dragged into this shit.

Posted by: Kevin Bacon at August 28, 2011 12:52 AM (bvXGR)

136 These federal undercover agents are all Muslims. They have to be,
because the would-be terrorists are devout Muslims who quiz them.

That isn't a logical conclusion. Islam can be learned.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 12:53 AM (73tyQ)

137 You getta dhimmi! You getta dhimmi! You get a dhimmi!

Posted by: Pam "O" Geller at August 28, 2011 12:54 AM (JEVge)

138 Needs more scoamf.

------

I put more up on my Flickr.

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at August 28, 2011 12:54 AM (nRTou)

139 "Ace of Spades is one of those juvenile, leering fratboy blogs..."

Oh? Well, then it's time for a Beach Party!

Posted by: SlaveDog at August 28, 2011 12:56 AM (PidTa)

140 So, if the polls tell us that Americans are very widely more conservative than liberal, why. oh why, did the SCOAMF ever get elected in the first place? I'm beyond tired of the sorry ass "white guilt" approach. There is hardly a bean in one that even had any ancestral association with this unsavory practice. Yet, this farce lives on, and on, and on...you've got to repent and pay up, even if, and especially if, you lose out on a job, an education opportunity. just because you are the enemy-- you are the enemy white cracker, Wonder Bread. It has all been handed to you. You've never used a brain cell or used a modicum of sweat and tears to produce anything. It is all on our backs. This is why we shoot people of our own race, all of the time, every single night in every single big city. Hey, bro, we are only trying to make a living with our drugs and shit and all that disrespect stuff.

Posted by: Moniker at August 28, 2011 12:56 AM (TN7KL)

141 118 agree. 123, per Ace's earlier post, she gets more hits than he does now - thusproblem is that she's "legitimized" enough that she can do damage with irresponsible, misguided allegations.
Given the inside baseball related earlier, it appears as if she reads this site thoroughly for any mention of her name or cause. It's the blogger version of "you didn't hold me after Iyoucameand then you never called me again."
Pamela needs validation. Ace didn't reciprocate. Ergo, Pamela hates Ace,therefore he must be dhimmi.
Anyone want to take bets on why Pamela's attacking Perry ? Lack of access, or denied interviews, perhaps ? Envy's a bith, Pam. Live with it.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 12:56 AM (yK8YH)

142 Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at August 28, 2011 12:54 AM (nRTou)

Good stuff.

Posted by: The Mega Independent at August 28, 2011 12:57 AM (5I0Yr)

143 @132, Yup, but even when they were trained by the Germans, muslim troops still sucked.

That's one of the reasons Islam has to rely on subversion, terrorism and insurgency-they suck out loud at conventional warfare.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 12:57 AM (9CM5J)

144 139
"Ace of Spades is one of those juvenile, leering fratboy blogs..."

What's hilarious is that most of us have only been near a frat on Wedgie Wednesdays.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 12:58 AM (73tyQ)

145 Pamela needs validation. Ace didn't reciprocate. Ergo, Pamela hates Ace,therefore he must be dhimmi.

At this point, Ace is punching down.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 01:00 AM (73tyQ)

146 I've got no Ewok in this fight..

Posted by: TexasJew at August 28, 2011 01:00 AM (+cOEs)

147 Radical Islam is responsible for my poor grammar and spelling in my previous post. The Pamela under my bed says so. (No, I ain't going there, no further, no-siree).

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 01:00 AM (yK8YH)

Posted by: Arms Merchant at August 28, 2011 01:01 AM (NZMKc)

149 Ugh, too much reading for a Saturday night

Posted by: logprof of the Free GGE Foundation at August 28, 2011 01:01 AM (lh7Yc)

150 Ace



As a moron who also reads Jihadwatch regularly (AtlasShrugs, not so
much), I've got to say that I think you are conflating guilt by
association with quality of association. No one is accusing Marco Rubio
or Sarah Palin, but Rick Perry has had a much deeper relationship with
Norquist--fund raising, trips, etc., that go beyond just shaking hands
or endorsing taxpayers issues.





Secondly, you may also be conflating moderate Islam (no such thing) with
moderate Muslims (of which there are many). Stateless Infidel (#75)
pretty much gets it right.





Finally, you need to cut Jugs and Beard some slack. Geller and Spencer
are doing the hard day-to-day work of exposing the stealth Jihad
project, and at considerable expense and personal risk. It is a lonely,
thankless task, and I'd spot them some points when they start sounding a
bit paranoid-- they have every reason to be.





Yes, I understand egos get bruised, but its a big blogosphere and there is room for all three of you.





What there is not room for is
more apologists for jihadis whose only real objective is to destroy our
values and civilization. I'd rather have people too concerned than not
enough. And I wouldn't say that the general atmosphere of the late 40s
and early 50s would be too extreme a tone for the country to take (if we
could ever get it off its PC ass). After all, we know from the former
Soviet archives that McCarthy, for all his faults, was right.

Posted by: Arms Merchant at August 28, 2011 01:02 AM (NZMKc)

151 Only one thing counts in this world: get them to sign on the line which is dhimmi.

Posted by: Pamela Gellar Movie Quotes at August 28, 2011 01:02 AM (veZ9n)

152 A dhimmi ate me babeeee!

Posted by: Peemela Gellah at August 28, 2011 01:02 AM (mIucK)

153 Oh?  Well, then it's time for a Beach Party!

------

Wait, let's back up a second. This woman wants to be taken seriously while "Vlogging" and swimming in her skimpy bikini?

Does not compute.

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at August 28, 2011 01:04 AM (nRTou)

154 144: On that note - you want juvenille. Pam ? You can't handle juvenille. The frat boys I've known would have already had your rackalicious hyper-idelogical and overly-excitable ass for lunch by now.
And if you consider that unfair, try thinking twice before you frag your own troops. At least Robert had a good name to protect before you dragged him into this irrelevant internecine idiocy.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 01:06 AM (yK8YH)

155 128:

I'm sympathetic, but if I'm following this correctly, the muslims in question weren't teaching the kids directly, but rather talking to teachers about the curriculum.

In any sort of history or government or comp religion class, Islam is gonna come up. I'd much rather have the curriculum I read here than the nonsense they are teaching most everywhere else.

Hell, I went to catholic school and most of what I got was "poverty causes this" nonsense, and this was post 9/11.

Posted by: BSR at August 28, 2011 01:06 AM (BH4RQ)

156 >>What's hilarious is that most of us have only been near a frat on Wedgie Wednesdays.

True. Went to college for 7-1/2 years. Never went to a frat house.

Posted by: SlaveDog at August 28, 2011 01:06 AM (PidTa)

157 Gellar: Nice ta-tas ( if they're real ) but kinda nuts

Spencer: Good guy but gets carried away ( esp defending Miss Nice Ta-tas )

This dispute: lame

btw, there are no 'moderate' Muslims. There are Muslims who don't take Islam seriously as anything more than a moral code to help them behave themselves ( don't drink ,etc )........but all those who follow the teachings of the Koran are Not Moderate because that vile book is fanatical

also btw, from the pics I've seen, wonktwat is not cute and her mind is a lib-crap-sinkhole

Posted by: SantaRosaStan at August 28, 2011 01:06 AM (UqKQV)

158 This post needs more cowbell.

Posted by: Ina_ginalship at August 28, 2011 01:08 AM (opinc)

159 Went to college for 7-1/2 years. Never went to a frat house.

Posted by: SlaveDog at August 28, 2011 01:06 AM (PidTa)
Including grad school / doctoral fellowships -- 8 years. No frat houses

Posted by: SantaRosaStan at August 28, 2011 01:08 AM (UqKQV)

160 btw, there are no 'moderate' Muslims. There are
Muslims who don't take Islam seriously as anything more than a moral
code to help them behave themselves ( don't drink ,etc )........but all
those who follow the teachings of the Koran are Not Moderate because
that vile book is fanatical


Posted by: SantaRosaStan at August 28, 2011 01:06 AM (UqKQV)

I get this argument, but even if I was totally convinced of its veracity, I still have to wonder (like ace): what then?That's not a road I would really want to go down, or want America to go down either.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 01:09 AM (8Zpuz)

161 Slightly OT: Is any one else tired of the "frat" adjective. I see a bit of an incongruity with actual frat boys and the AoSHQ lifestyle.

Posted by: BSR at August 28, 2011 01:10 AM (BH4RQ)

162 That's not a road I would really want to go down, or want America to go down either.


Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 01:09 AM (8Zpuz)
Which road is this, of which you speak?

Posted by: SantaRosaStan at August 28, 2011 01:10 AM (UqKQV)

163 >>Spencer: Good guy but gets carried away ( esp defending Miss Nice Ta-tas )
Hmm...

Is that what this whole thing is about? The power of the ta-ta's?

I knew it.

Posted by: SlaveDog at August 28, 2011 01:11 AM (PidTa)

164 150: But the problem is that if they start sounding paranoid, they lose credibility, and when you're arguing into the headwinds of political correctness, that's your only weapon. If they marginalize themselves, they take the cause with them.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 01:11 AM (yK8YH)

165 161
Slightly OT: Is any one else tired of the "frat" adjective. I see a bit
of an incongruity with actual frat boys and the AoSHQ lifestyle.

Posted by: BSR at August 28, 2011 01:10 AM (BH4RQ)
We eat frat boys for breakfast.For dinner...hobos!

Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 01:11 AM (73tyQ)

166 Well, since all the Republican candidates seem to be dhimmi's, I may as well go ahead and vote my conscience. Obama it is!
Ha ha. Just kidding. Nothing personal, Ace, and I can tell you put a lot of effort into that post, but no one really gives a shit. Except about the boobies. If you could post a link to some of those pictures from back when Geller was younger, and they were worth ogling, then all will be forgiven.

Posted by: OCBill at August 28, 2011 01:11 AM (MiSre)

167 I see a bit of an incongruity with actual frat boys and the AoSHQ lifestyle.

I rather liked the combo of "smart military blog" and "notoriously rowdy commenters."

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at August 28, 2011 01:12 AM (7utQ2)

168 but no one really gives a shit.

No one?

Posted by: Honey Badger at August 28, 2011 01:12 AM (73tyQ)

169 157 - I'd still hit wonk, I'd just double-wrap first. Then again, as previously stated, I have 3+ hours till closing time.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 01:13 AM (yK8YH)

170 BTW, you guys all know that Breitbart skipped that post and got right to the comments in 0.2 seconds.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 01:13 AM (73tyQ)

171 Hell I hbe been to Grover's house. I was an ATR intern assisting at one of his parties. I can't get people who think that saying you were at Grover's is bragging. If you're a con in DC it'll happen eventually.

Posted by: Dcbrent at August 28, 2011 01:14 AM (vS5Lj)

172 That's not a road I would really want to go down, or want America to go
down either.

Why not? The America of fifty years ago wouldn't have tolerated this influx of Muslims and now it's a road we don't want to go down? Why?

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 01:16 AM (GZitp)

173 Too long! (that's what me said.)

Posted by: baldilocks at August 28, 2011 01:16 AM (T2/zQ)

174 In fact, when I went to grad school at Texas AM, fraternities were almost nonexistent. There was the Corps of Cadets and everyone else.

Oh, and, that's right. Rick Perry was not a frat-boy.

Posted by: SlaveDog at August 28, 2011 01:16 AM (PidTa)

175 Village Idiot at August 27, 2011 11:21 PM (utXSy)


When has Robert Spencer ever admitted he was wrong? I can't think of any examples.

Posted by: ed at August 28, 2011 01:16 AM (NIJTu)

176 Robert Spencer? The boring lame from frontpage?
Pam Geller? the unoriginal ( Atlas shrugged come on!)
lightweight with the insomniacs favorite blog. Ace must really be kicking himself that he didn't fuck her when he had the chance. Next time some dimwit with huge bazongas wants you to plug her blog, make her your dihimini or whatever it's called.

Posted by: Awnree at August 28, 2011 01:17 AM (sR3hB)

177 Breitbart skipped that post and got right to the comments in 0.2 seconds.

Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 01:13 AM (73tyQ)
Ace's prose is prolix

Posted by: ex-PFC Wintergreen at August 28, 2011 01:17 AM (UqKQV)

178 Man, I wish Toonces had gotten this kind of rectal exam.

Posted by: Little Green Fuzzballs at August 28, 2011 01:18 AM (jeLTI)

179 Brief summary of Atlas's post conerning Aceoesn't he know how important I am?



You're welcome...

Posted by: badanov at August 28, 2011 01:19 AM (lult1)

180 Why not? The America of fifty years ago wouldn't
have tolerated this influx of Muslims and now it's a road we don't want
to go down? Why?


Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 01:16 AM (GZitp)

We could take more aggressive steps to collect humint from radical mosques than we are now. Hell, the whole Western world would benefit from that.
Depends on who you ask, but a lot of the anti-Muzzie crusaders would like us to start banning Islam or Islamic practices re: France, Switzerland - the headscarf ban or the minaret ban. Those are violations of the First Amendment. I am not assuming these intentions on your part or anyone's here specifically, but I've heard them expressed several times, so I know they exist.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 01:19 AM (8Zpuz)

181 Ex-P.F.C. Wintergreen An ex-P.F.C. because of his constant urge
to go AWOL, Wintergreen has been demoted so many times that he
entertains hopes of becoming an ex-general. Due to his position in
charge of mail distribution, he wields a great amount of power in the
novel. By forging documents and destroying mail, he becomes more
powerful than the generals.

Posted by: !! at August 28, 2011 01:20 AM (UqKQV)

182 175: Never to my recollection. Then again, he's usually careful about what he says. Not so much when defending Pam, it seems. His response to Stein has a number of risable claims (effective shot down in Stein's reply) which aren't in character for him. He clearly has a soft spot in his heart for Pam Geller - to the expense of his own credibility. Disappointing.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 01:21 AM (yK8YH)

183 This Grover Norquist thing is the worst kind of stupid. He's a big time political player because of the Tax issue. He has a weird fetish for muslims, but its just a tad insane for me to assume that because someone has any sort of relationship with him that they automatically share his islamo-boner.

Posted by: BSR at August 28, 2011 01:21 AM (BH4RQ)

184 170
BTW, you guys all know that Breitbart skipped that post and got right to the comments in 0.2 seconds.


Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 01:13 AM (73tyQM)"Ace, you make me long for the erections of my youth..."

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 01:21 AM (8Zpuz)

185 Women like Coulter, Malkin or Megyn Kelly certainly weren't hindered by their attractiveness (I'm sure there are a graveyard of men in their collective pasts that have underestimated them), but it seems like they try to only give a wink and a nod to their beauty, while working hard to present themselves as serious, thoughtful commentators. I think it would be foolish to think that their looks had nothing to do with their popularity, but I'm sure they would be offended if someone were to suggest that was the driving force.

Geller strikes me as the type of person that doesn't care how she obtains popularity or notoriety - hence her vlogging in a skimpy bikini top or the bio shots of her in tight-fitting tank tops on her site. It's lazy and cheap, and if I were a woman I'd be pretty put off by her behavior.

Some girls pay their way through school by waitressing; others strip.

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at August 28, 2011 01:22 AM (nRTou)

186 Sweet Jaysus, this thing's longer than the right sidebar.

Posted by: blue star at August 28, 2011 01:24 AM (MLZxF)

187 Those are violations of the First Amendment. I am not assuming these
intentions on your part or anyone's here specifically, but I've heard
them expressed several times, so I know they exist.

So in your mind Islam is something that should be monitored closely, we should be prepared to live our lives being searched at airports, sea ports, etc. and basically living under a constant threat of what some Muslims may do because of the first amendment? Was that the founders intentions? I find that hard to believe.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 01:25 AM (GZitp)

188 That post was so long it should have been hard bound. I will read it tomorrow and next week.

Posted by: Ronster at August 28, 2011 01:27 AM (4fcWw)

189 I never read Pamela Geller for the same reason I never read Dan Riehl - EVERYTHING is a big deal. Every single thing they report requires full on, DEFCON 1 levels of shrieking, and anyone who isn't 100% in their corner about everything all the time is a coward and a lefty and a dhimmi and whatever. It's mind-numbing. If you're going to be over the top, at least have a sense of humor. Half of what Stacy McCain writes is ridiculous, but I still go to his site because he's funny.

Posted by: radar at August 28, 2011 01:29 AM (VEc75)

190

But shouldn't we at least be open to the possibility that something short of permanent total war of civilizations is possible?
I say again that I am not attempting to portray them as seething warmongers and "eliminationists," as the left likes to say.
This permanent, million-casualty war of civilizations scenario has
occurred to me, and I haven't denounced myself for thinking about it.
It's a possibility one has to consider.
But I am saying that if there is a chance at avoiding such an outcome,
well, we should probably do what we can to avoid it, shouldn't we?
yes we should, but isn't it strange in 2011 this is even a question , we have information at our fingertips, yet we can't openly say to a religion that is hanging on to its bitter (heh)roots it should moderate for the good of mankind?the fact that we can't without death threats is rather bizzareyet i'm with you and others that have hopes that moderate muslims can help with Islam and furthering peace , but don't believe that can happen without strengthening Moderate muslims and pointing out with outrage not any servitude but outrage how wrong and inhumane Islam taken literally is to muslims and others in the world

Posted by: willow at August 28, 2011 01:30 AM (h+qn8)

191 47
39 There is no way I'm seeing this movie.

Posted by: nickless at August 27, 2011 11:56 PM (MMC8r)

But there are tits involved.

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 12:05 AM (GULKT)

Definitely a coupla boobs at the least..

Posted by: JarvisW at August 28, 2011 01:31 AM (8yPsP)

192 and I wish Spencer had not involved himself in this .

can't we all get along ! we're on the same side damnt

Posted by: willow at August 28, 2011 01:32 AM (h+qn8)

193 So in your mind Islam is something that should
be monitored closely, we should be prepared to live our lives being
searched at airports, sea ports, etc. and basically living under a
constant threat of what some Muslims may do because of the first
amendment? Was that the founders intentions? I find that hard to believe.


Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 01:25 AM (GZitp)

I don't see how this follows anything I said. If you are arguing for headscarf/minaret bans yourself, then no, I don't think those would have been the founder's intentions. Again the 1st Amendment is fairly clear.
I would haul out the Franklin liberty/security quote but I think that's as old as the hills by now in this debate.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 01:32 AM (8Zpuz)

194 I just got this post on my Kindle.

Posted by: SlaveDog at August 28, 2011 01:33 AM (PidTa)

195 185: Meg Kelly won me over when she tore up her co-worker for like 10 minutes some time back ala "don't come on my show without knowing your facts..." Same with Coulter, who I'd marry for each and every book she's written, along with her hellishy nasty TV commentary. And they've both done some "cheesecake" in their day - Kelly's magazine shoot and Coulter's calendars come to mind. So long as you bring enough substance to begin with, being hot just adds to the package.
After all, if hittable was the only criteria, Maggie McCain* might have her own TV show.
As for Michelle, she's beautiful, but I've found her blog more shrewish and bitter over the last year. She also seems to be firmly in the anti-Perry camp. I assume that both Pam and Michelle are Bachmann supporters and this might inform their thinking more than a bit.Malkin's Gardisil broadside was a bit overstated at best.
* Yes, I know. She's a bit thick, but that's how I roll. 2.5 hours to go.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 01:33 AM (yK8YH)

196 You're in the wrong league here, mate. Robert Spencer is a scholar on this subject. Stick with what you know.

Posted by: Brett_McS at August 28, 2011 01:34 AM (x8Zox)

197 189 - totally agree - good characterization on both parts.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 01:34 AM (yK8YH)

198 196 You're in the wrong league here, mate. Robert Spencer is a scholar on this subject. Stick with what you know.
Posted by: Brett_McS at August 28, 2011 01:34 AM (x8Zox)
Really? You're going to go with a "He's more informed than you are so you're not allowed to talk about it so you should shut up." That's what you want to do? Really?

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 01:38 AM (GULKT)

199 196
You're in the wrong league here, mate. Robert Spencer is a scholar on this subject. Stick with what you know.

If everyone "stuck with what they knew" and listened to the "scholars" the Earth would still be the center of the universe and all thought would originate in the heart.

Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at August 28, 2011 01:38 AM (KJMY9)

200 PG's commenters are fucking insane:

- "I'm sick and tired of so-called conservatives groveling at the feet of Islamic supremacists and then demonizing those who don't." [What? What conservatives do this?]


Posted by: RJ at August 28, 2011 01:38 AM (QjrRF)

201 195: I do agree that Malkin has gotten a little shrill lately (but that doesn't change how she rised to prominence). I used to read her blog religiously and I can't even remember the last time I visited.

I also have no issue with Coulter or Kelly's photo shoots. They've payed their dues intellectually first. Geller seems perfectly willing to do it in reverse.

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at August 28, 2011 01:39 AM (nRTou)

202 196 - Argue from intimidation much ? As a recovering Randrioid, I distrust anyone who says Beloved Leader is Wiser Than You. Read what Robert had to say to Stein, then tell me how scholarly it sounds. Robert strikes me as a good man who's done a good job in a thankless task, but that doesn't make him infallible or unaccountable. He's wrong on this one. Doesn't make him a bad man, just makes him human.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 01:39 AM (yK8YH)

203 196 You're in the wrong league here, mate. Robert Spencer is a scholar on this subject. Stick with what you know.
Posted by: Brett_McS at August 28, 2011 01:34 AM (x8Zox)

So which Spencer should we uncritically accept, the one that said Agha Khan is a moderate who is not dedicated to total war with the infidel, or the one who says he's such an irredeemable enemy that mere association with him puts you beyond the pale?

Or have you not read ANY of this conflict, done ANY of your own research, or paid ANY attention at all before instructing others?

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 01:40 AM (bxiXv)

204 Guys, please read the new material I inserted early in the piece.

It begins "Now, looking at what the teachers were taught..."

You can also search for "jesus;" the new material begins before that.

I caught her in the sort of dishonest crap she's doing.

Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 01:41 AM (nj1bB)

205 200
PG's commenters are fucking insane:



- "I'm sick and tired of so-called conservatives groveling at the feet
of Islamic supremacists and then demonizing those who don't." [What?
What conservatives do this?]

Sounds like the same sort of idiocy typical of HuffPo commenters.

Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at August 28, 2011 01:41 AM (KJMY9)

206 PS At about paragraph 22 I began to wonder if there were going to *be* any comments!

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 01:43 AM (bxiXv)

207 You're in the wrong league here, mate. Robert Spencer is a scholar on this subject. Stick with what you know.
Posted by: Brett_McS at August 28, 2011 01:34 AM (x8Zox)
In that case, you should restrain yourself to commenting only on smegma and hentai. Thank you and good day, sir.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 01:45 AM (9CM5J)

208 >>You're in the wrong league here, mate. Robert Spencer is a scholar on this subject. Stick with what you know.<<

Yeah. James Hansen is a scholar. Paul Krugman is a scholar. Hell, Obama is scholar.

Forgive me if I'm skeptical of scholars.

(Was I just assuming guilt by association? I denounce myself.)

Posted by: SlaveDog at August 28, 2011 01:45 AM (PidTa)

209
Good gosh, I can't stand the thought of what Chucky Johnson has posted over at LGF.

"Even Whacko-Rightwinger AceThinks Gellar and Spencer are Nuts!"

Posted by: Dave at August 28, 2011 01:46 AM (HPcQF)

210 204 Ace - given that Stein says he interviewed a teacher as to what they were taught, I will take his word over Pam's until she produces a more credible source.
My money's still on her having a horse in the race other than Perry, Bachmann being my first guess. I'm not anti-Bachmann by any means, but calling Perry a freakin' dhimmi doesn't exactly win my heart or mind. Did she fire Rollins or is this more of his fucking nonsense ?

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 01:46 AM (yK8YH)

211 I tried to get this for my Kindle. Insufficient memory. I've only got forty books on my Kindle.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 01:48 AM (9CM5J)

212 "I'm sick and tired of so-called conservatives groveling at the feet
of Islamic supremacists and then demonizing those who don't.

groveling is rather harsh. perhaps we do give strength to those muslims that aren't kin to being forced to kill their daughter for being raped?
do we give up on the possibility there might be muslims that are indeed feeling oppressed by the hand of extreme islamists ?
are there none?
are You sure?

Posted by: willow at August 28, 2011 01:49 AM (h+qn8)

213 204 Guys, please read the new material I inserted early in the piece. It begins "Now, looking at what the teachers were taught..." You can also search for "jesus;" the new material begins before that. I caught her in the sort of dishonest crap she's doing.
Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 01:41 AM (nj1bB)
Oh yeah the crap you quoted from her interpretation is utter bullshit. Like I said on the original thread about this my 6th grade social studies class had a section dealing with the main religions around the world. And this was like 1994 or so, and part of what we learned was how Muslims believe that Jesus wasn't the Son of God but rather just a prophet. Which was a pretty easy concept for me to grasp even in the 6th grade. Just like grasping that Jews didn't think he was the Son of God, and the same with Hindus and Buddhists.
Its one of those things you sort of want to know when compare and contrast is used for teaching.

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 01:50 AM (GULKT)

214 204
Guys, please read the new material I inserted early in the piece.



It begins "Now, looking at what the teachers were taught..."

Geeze, that's as bad as Maddow and Schultz.

Doesn't seem that different from Taqqiya.

Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at August 28, 2011 01:51 AM (KJMY9)

215 Hey, I'm a scholar of military history. Just about to get a degree and everything.

I hereby anoint myself as the AoSHQ Authority on Military History, and my word may not be contested.



?

Why are you all laughing? I'm a SCHOLAR.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 01:51 AM (9CM5J)

216 209

Good gosh, I can't stand the thought of what Chucky Johnson has posted over at LGF.

"Even Whacko-Rightwinger Ace Thinks Gellar and Spencer are Nuts!"
Posted by: Dave at August 28, 2011 01:46 AM (HPcQF)
That's why the best way to call her nuts is to compare her behavior to Chuckles and to call her blog Little Green Jugs.

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 01:51 AM (GULKT)

217 The Constitution says what it says, and to say that the Founding Fathers were not thinking of Islam, so therefore violations of the First Amendment against Moslemsare ok, is akin to saying that the First Amendment doesn't apply online, as the Founding Fathers never imagined the internet. More sloppy, unserious thinking. And I know, I know: the Constitution is not a suicide pact. So when that platitude becomes legal precedent, and since law is based on precedent, will you be quite so happy when it is used to ban guns, or stop the free practice of Catholicism, or ban circumcision, all on behalf of various "victims" for whom the Constitution is not a suicide pact. But that could never happen--liberal judges would never try to create law from the bench. Right?
Are we really in favor of genocide? As I asked the other night, will U.S. troops line up women and children for slaughter. And if so, then please explain the outrage when Kerry or Obama accuse U.S. troops of killing women and children? Shouldn't we be proud of those accusations, if genocide is simply a lawfull order, gladly obeyed? I would think, instead of outrage, even if the accusations are false, the response would be more like an apologetice, "Sorry, sir, not this time, but I'll sure enough do it next time." Again, not serious. It may make you feel all puffed and testicular that you're going all hard core against Mr. Muzzie, but in the end it's just unhelpful, unserious venting, which does nothing to help solve the problem.

Posted by: MikeinAmman at August 28, 2011 01:52 AM (w/uuN)

218 196 You're in the wrong league here, mate. Robert Spencer is a scholar on this subject. Stick with what you know. Posted by: Brett_McS at August 28, 2011 01:34 AM (x8Zox) Spencer seems to be a fairily accomplished student of Islam and Islamic history; I copied and readhis"Blogging the Koran" series and have one or two of his books on Islam. But like most people, I also have other, older sources, and the topic is not new to me.
But as to what constitutes dhimmitude: Spencer may be better at correctly stating the conditions that Muslims define and expect ... but Muslimsdo not rule here. We determine whether we defer to Muslims or not, no one else.

Posted by: Arbalest at August 28, 2011 01:54 AM (Wh+YQ)

219
Good gosh, I can't stand the thought of what Chucky Johnson has posted over at LGF.



Posted by: Dave at August 28, 2011 01:46 AM (HPcQF)Open mike poetry slam night at Cafe Pedlar gets a bigger audience than Chuckles. I wouldn't worry overmuch about him.


Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 01:55 AM (9CM5J)

220 These federal undercover agents are all Muslims. They have to be,
because the would-be terrorists are devout Muslims who quiz them.That isn't a logical conclusion. Islam can be learned.

You honestly think the FBI has been able to train non-Muslims well enough to fool genuine Muslim terrorists born in Muslim countries?

Posted by: Llarry at August 28, 2011 01:55 AM (jyUxu)

221 From: Stateless Infidel's comment (#75):

What if the darkest conception of Islam is accurate?

I believe the darkest conception of Islam is accurate. That's not to
say that I don't think there are a large mass of muslims out there more
concerned with feeding their family on a weekly basis. I think there's
probably a large number of muslims just stuck, going through the Islamic
motions since they're in Islamic crapholes and to not follow along is
going to get themselves or their family hurt.


That being said though, Islam as an ideology needs to be destroyed.

////////////////////
My reply: Stateless Infidel gets it.

Plainly stated, Ace is grasping at straws with his "smallest gestures at bridge-building with the Muslim community" wishful thinking.

Muslims are obviously not in this country to have bridges built to them by the non-Muslim segment of the populace. In fact, they are openly here to establish islands -- Islamic beachheads, which they will, if permitted, develop -- a la London and Malmo -- into Islamic "no-go zones" for police and firemen. (To understand that this is not being pursued "undercover," but -- rather -- out in the open, please see Britain's "Islamic Emirates Project" at: http://tinyurl.com/44bg3ul - Hat tip: AtlasShrugs blog.)
No, Ace: There is no escaping it. Either Agha Khan is a stealth jihadist or an inconsequential statistical out-lyer -- we are already at war with Islam. It is a war that Islam declared back in the days of Muhammad. No amount of wishful thinking, exercises in goodwill or "nation-building," or idiotic "community outreach," such as Perry undertook with Agha Khan will change that.

The fact is that Islam not only does not "wish" to live in harmony with peoples of other religions and cultures, it explicitly refuses to do so. Or, do you not find it a bit odd that that jihadists are simultaneously killing -- to name just some of the salient, current examples -- Jews in Israel, Hindus in Kashmir, Catholics in the Philippines, Protestants in Nigeria, Confucianists Communists in China, and Buddhists in Thailand? For the latter, please see the following heart-wrenching read: http://tinyurl.com/44v35nt
I am reasonably confident that Ace will come around. He just needs some time to absorb the implications of all this.
Say what you will about Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer (both of whom I openly and enthusiastically admire), they are change agents for good -- waking America the hell up.

Awakened from what, you may ask? Awakened from its self-induced -- and self-deluding -- fog as a result of ingesting far too much beer, porn, ESPN, American Idol, and junk food to the disturbing reality that the mosques in this country are hatching a generation of jihadis whom the younger set among us will need relentlessly to extirpate from our society, if that society is to continue as a Constitutional Republic.

As far as Perry's relationships with Khan and Perry go, they show he is what he is -- a slick politician cum naive Texas farm-boy. If he is wise, he will quickly and quietly distance himself from both of these tainted characters and speak out more boldly for Israel, which is under increasing pressure from both the Obama White House and an Islamic World recently grown more radical by a few powers of ten as a consequence of the ongoing "Arab Spring," foolishly endorsed by President Obama, and (to our everlasting shame) facilitated in Libya (but not in Syria) by our military.





Posted by: man_in_tx at August 28, 2011 01:55 AM (mtzAh)

222 I caught her in the sort of dishonest crap she's doing.
Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 01:41 AM (nj1bB)
Hell yes you did. Good find, ace.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 01:56 AM (8Zpuz)

223 216 - LGJ ? Nice. Green's my favorite color and I'd definitely prefer her Jugs to his Footballs. Although I did occasionally fap to the bike pics (/sarc).

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 01:57 AM (yK8YH)

224 Hey, I'm a scholar of military history. Just about to get a degree and everything. I hereby anoint myself as the AoSHQ Authority on Military History, and my word may not be contested.Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 01:51 AM (9CM5J)

Not only will you be uncontested, but the only one allowed to even make a comment on Military History.

Because you are a scholar.

And a frat boy.

Posted by: SlaveDog at August 28, 2011 01:59 AM (PidTa)

225 @219

Perhaps I should have expressed myself more clearly, for I share your estimate of Chucky's audience size. And I'd wager both audiences have the same per capita rate of mental illness.

Posted by: Dave at August 28, 2011 01:59 AM (HPcQF)

226 You honestly think the FBI has been able to train
non-Muslims well enough to fool genuine Muslim terrorists born in Muslim
countries?


Posted by: Llarry at August 28, 2011 01:55 AM (jyUxu)
No, but I honestly believe the FBI could slip in some ringers among the American-born converts. FFS, man, they've had FBI agents damn near become made men in the Mafia, and they regularly infiltrated the Left, back when they were allowed to do that sort of thing.Even the NYPD has had a covert presence in the Mosques here.


Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 02:01 AM (9CM5J)

227 Pam misses a big point in all of this. As much as portions of Islam are outright enemies of the west, and a large portion of it remains hostile to the West and at times tacit enablers to violence, unless we are going to pursue some sort of "Final Solution" to the "Muslim Problem" we are going to have to structure some sort of end game where we can live together in some kind of peace.

That peace looks a lot different that the relationship we have today. Where Sharia is not the law of any land that does not want it. Where no human is ever coerced into following a faith. Where words and criticisms are not any sort of justification for violence. Where Islam accepts in its heart, that in the West, it is one religion of many, with no special considerations or privileges that would not likewise be extended to other faiths. Like I said a lot different than today.

Part of that endgame that does not include genocide, is understanding their faith. The other part of that, is them working to understand us, not just our faith, but our philosophy about freedom.

Now while we beat the sh*t out of them with one hand, the other hand should show that we are willing to take that first step toward peaceful coexistence.

I see no other way. Well like I said I see *one* other way. But I am not willing to entertain it. And unless that is the endgame Pam sees for this conflict, I wonder how she would fashion a lasting peace.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 02:02 AM (GE1+K)

228 Can we forget all this nonsense please and talk about something important? Like how Creationism is destroying Science in our schools.

j/k ace

I'm working with moderate muslims right now...and they love killing the Taliban. It's easy to take the just nuke them all route, it requires no actual interaction and relationship development, which could lead you to realize that whatever their religious beliefs, they are decent people who love, and are loved, by their families, want to get paid for a job well done, and mostly just want to be left alone to live their lives. There are decent and good people who happen to be muslim, but if Pam Gellar wanted to berate me face to face for interacting with them, well I would let her. I wouldn't be listening to her anyway IFYWIMAITYD.

Posted by: hobbes at August 28, 2011 02:02 AM (LmOsD)

229 Comments on the Jihad Watch blog:

- "Kudos, Great Leader!"

- "Rick Perry's going to have to learn to play ball with you guys if he doesn't like being attacked."

- "Obviously maintaining "good ol' boy" relations is more important than the truth to these dhimmmis."

- "I'm not eloqent in my speech and most definately not in writing as you, but when you have coffee next morning with Ace, know that you are both quite goofy."

Posted by: RJ at August 28, 2011 02:02 AM (QjrRF)

230 @221 tl;dr but the penultimate paragraph seems to indicate that you propose forcible expulsion/outright genocide of Muslims?

Where have I heard that sort of rhetoric before?

Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at August 28, 2011 02:03 AM (KJMY9)

231 221:
...Either Agha Khan is a stealth jihadist or an inconsequential statistical out-lyer -- we are already at war with Islam... No amount of wishful thinking, exercises in goodwill or "nation-building," or idiotic "community outreach," such as Perry undertook with Agha Khan will change that.
The whole damned point of all the articles Ace cited is that the alleged "dhimmi" cirriculum was in fact a fairly hard-nosed look at Islam's flaws.
The fact that you can willfully disregard all of that and still carry the anti-Perry camp's water on this issue makes me suspect that you, too, have some undisclosed skin in the game. Who''s your candidate, Champion of The West ?

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 02:03 AM (yK8YH)

232 someone had mentioned Daniel Pipes tonight in relation to Aga Khan? anyone know where that paragraph was?

Posted by: willow at August 28, 2011 02:03 AM (h+qn8)

233 The behaviour of Geller and Spencer in this matter seems to prove their critics correct in accusing them of irrational hatred of all things Muslim.

Muslims who wage jihad against us should be put down like rabid dogs, ground up into slop, and fed to pigs.

Muslims who are not waging jihad against anyone but merely want to live in peace have the same rights as anyone else. We don't have to agree with their religious ideas, or even trouble ourselves with arguing against them, but we do have to respect their right to hold those ideas and to honestly explain them to others.

Spencer and Geller should also remember that an enemy you don't understand is an enemy you cannot defeat without incurring serious damage to yourself along the way.

Posted by: Lee Reynolds at August 28, 2011 02:03 AM (zkRoG)

234 The fact is that Islam not only does not "wish" to live in harmony with
peoples of other religions and cultures, it explicitly refuses to do
so. Or, do you not find it a bit odd that that jihadists are
simultaneously killing -- to name just some of the salient, current
examples -- Jews in Israel, Hindus in Kashmir, Catholics in the
Philippines, Protestants in Nigeria, Confucianists Communists in
China, and Buddhists in Thailand?

Posted by: man_in_tx at August 28, 2011 01:55 AM (mtzAh)



You imply Islam is some kind of a hive-mind-like entity with a unifying global directive. That is quite a fantastic claim for which you have provided no evidence. Talking about how some Muslims kill those of another religion is unrelated to that claim. Hindus slaughtered Muslims like sheep after India's liberation.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 02:04 AM (8Zpuz)

235 Again, not serious. It may make you feel all puffed and testicular
that you're going all hard core against Mr. Muzzie, but in the end it's
just unhelpful, unserious venting, which does nothing to help solve the
problem.

Oh for Christ sake, you change our immigration policy and when that proves ineffective you change the constitution. This fucking notion that the founders were even considering Islam when writing the first amendment is ludicrous on it's face. They couldn't have even imagined it. But lets forget about doing something that would actually solve the problem and get to what's really important, how you plan on solving the problem? Talk about it? Then talk some more?

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:05 AM (GZitp)

236 This permanent, million-casualty war of civilizations scenario has
occurred to me, and I haven't denounced myself for thinking about it. -ace

Have you taken any time to study up on the history of Jihad? It doesn't seem so.

This "permanent, million-casualty war of civilizations scenario" has been playing out since the first msulim armies stormed out of Arabia thirteen hundred years ago. The story of Islam is the story of a virtually ceaseless genocidal campaign of murder, rape and looting committed by muslims against any non-Islamic civilization they encountered. Just the conquest of North India was a many times greater slaughter of Hindus than what was the Nazi genocide of the Jews and other untermenschen.

There was a brief lull that occurred after the conquests of Persia, Egypt and North Africa- the Arabs were spread thin and the frenzy had subsided somewhat. However, that changed with the arrival of the Turkish hordes from Central Asia- who picked up the banner of Jihad and went on to conquer Byzantium and then set their sights on Europe from their foothold of the Islamized Balkans. That second wave of Jihad carried on for roughly five centuries and would down with the second failure to seize Vienna and eventually came to a halt with the collapse of the Ottoman Caliphate in the early part of the last century. Remember, it was the fact that muslims blocked the old trade routes with India that spurred Spain on to the search for trade routes to the West ending with the discovery of the New World.

We have now been in a new phase of Jihad whose intellectual roots originate with the forming of the Muslim Brotherhood in the wake of the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and whose stated purpose is the restoration of the Caliphate. The strategists in the Brotherhood, together with financiers of the Gulf States who began to take in enormous wealth after the price of oil shot up in the 70's is what been driving this latest phase- which seems poised to topple Europe.

There's plenty of literature out there that attests to just how serious a situation we're in with this.

I hope that the Islamist war on the west winds down. -ace

Statements like that suggest that you haven't spent much time reading them. Try Andy Bostom.

The record shows that Islam has advanced as much by stealth as by sword and Spencer at Jihadwatch has been one of the few who have devoted themselves solely to alerting Infidels to this threat. And this matter of Rick Perry and the Aga Khan is pretty much a textbook example of how seeming moderates ingratiate themselves with well-meaning, naive Infidel dupes in order to further the expansion of dar al Islam. Just go through the archives at Jihadwatch and you'll find innumerable cases that mirror the Perry/Aga Khan matter pretty closely. This or that imam or Khan might seem more moderate and assuring than the other- but the end goal is always the same. The Infidel dupe trumpets the opening of a great pluralistic interfaith dialogue and the wily muslim gets to set up whatever foundation, with Infidel assistance and money, to sow the seeds of Islam in the lands of the Infidel. Pluralism always means Islam. Haven't we figured that out yet?

Geller and Spencer began this with an expose on Perry and his extensive involvement with the Aga Khan. Others responded by making this about Geller and Spencer. But this is about Rick Perry and associations and actions that he should answer for.

Talk about "pallin' around with terrorists"! The Aga Khan is the descendant of Hassan i Sabah- the original terrorist. The Old Man of the Mountain written about by Brion Gysin. Pals with a prospective US President? That'll play well in Poughkeepsie.

You can have your Aga Khan. I'll be sippin the 'schewitz with the aga Kahane.

Posted by: november1981 at August 28, 2011 02:06 AM (3TGfa)

237 Every one does know that "Agha Khan" is a title; "The Agha Khan", not a proper name, right?

Posted by: Arbalest at August 28, 2011 02:07 AM (Wh+YQ)

238 Gotta say I'm not hopeful of a peaceful resolution of the Islam question. They really are old school. Of course Christianity used to be incompatible with modern civilization too, but it changed during the same time modern civilization was being born during the Renaissance. We just don't have time to just hold em at bay until they civilize themselves in a century or two. WMD is getting too easy to get and will get much easier once we get custom genomes implantable into blank germs. That will happen sooner than anyone expects.

Option 1. Ann Coulter's "Bomb their cities, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. " Not a pretty option. We are still beating ourselves up for what we had to do in WWII, we would create a whole new apology industry if we did this option.

Option 2. We pull some sort of epic black op and undermine em somehow, making em become irreligious without bombing em into the stone age. Yes Rock Roll is infectious but I'm not confident we can bring em down with that and Dallas reruns. Their faith runs pretty deep.

Posted by: John Morris at August 28, 2011 02:07 AM (41hR3)

239 @235 Do you realize what you guys sound like?

Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at August 28, 2011 02:07 AM (KJMY9)

240 233: Spencer and Geller should also remember that an enemy you don't understand is an enemy you cannot defeat without incurring serious damage to yourself along the way.
Could not agree more. And the regrettable thing is that I thought Spencer a) understood Islam both good and bad and b) had the good sense and temperance to avoid being caught up in a dubious dispute like this, to the expense of his own much-assailed but still respected (at least by myself) credibility.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 02:08 AM (yK8YH)

241 You imply Islam is some kind of a hive-mind-like
entity with a unifying global directive.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011
02:04 AM (8Zpuz)

What the fuck do you think Islam is?

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:08 AM (GZitp)

242 Wow. The Juggites have arrived in force.

Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at August 28, 2011 02:09 AM (KJMY9)

243 Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes

---

I might have to steal your name for a P-Shop, if that's alright.

Posted by: Johnny (John E.) at August 28, 2011 02:09 AM (nRTou)

244 Awakened from what, you may ask? Awakened from its self-induced -- and
self-deluding -- fog as a result of ingesting far too much beer, porn,
ESPN, American Idol, and junk food to the disturbing reality that the
mosques in this country are hatching a generation of jihadis whom the
younger set among us will need relentlessly to extirpate from our
society, if that society is to continue as a Constitutional Republic.

Posted by: man_in_tx at August 28, 2011 01:55 AM (mtzAh)


Nice you can talk about extermination in such grandiloquent terms.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 02:10 AM (8Zpuz)

245 tl;dr ;-)

Posted by: ABouts at August 28, 2011 02:10 AM (BQvS5)

246 239
@235 Do you realize what
you guys sound like?


Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at August 28, 2011 02:07 AM (KJMY9)

Fuck you. Fucking liberals and Islam apologists.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:10 AM (GZitp)

247 @243




Yeah Johhny, you do good work.

Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at August 28, 2011 02:10 AM (KJMY9)

248 What the fuck do you think Islam is?


Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:08 AM (GZitp)

It's not the Borg, jackass.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 02:11 AM (8Zpuz)

249 We care Ace. We care about your opinion, your analysis, your self-reflection and dammint your character. We morons are all dhimmis now, and still proud.
Robert and Pamela, all they think about is their positions, their influence and yes their next blog posts, yes it IS that obvious.
Pamela might have started out as a libertarian hot chick who raised awareness with bikini v-logging, but she now has a cause. And in part a large part it is a great cause but she has twisted herself into putting ALL of herself and her fervor and spirit into the cause and sometimes her mind makes leaps that are only there and only exist due to that fervor. She has recognized some great evils and it pushed her to it, and she might in fact want her to actually BE an incarnation of Joan of Arc.
Spencer is almost in that same painted corner, but he ( like Pamela ) talk/listen to their inner reflections and Robert is a word spinner and like all good (sic) politicians, conmen and preachers has the ability to spread his rationalizations into the minds of others.
You on the other hand ACE do not deserve this. This situation , these posts or any opinions spouted about you by ANYONE (even me especially me) . Your self reflection, careful corrections and fact checking will hold no sway over the fans of Spencer/Geller crowds, but only might serve as some sort of example for them to follow, .. hopefully.
By the way Commentary is a horrible excuse for a "magazine". While it does have some good posts and good comments it seems to only exist as a finger in the wind, it has no purpose, no grounding, no platform but might as well be the most libertine soapbox for what has been written there over the years.
It does the job of checking which way the wind is blowing well, and many people refer to it before they make their own pronouncements just for that reason but it will never "stand" for anything and that is sorta just wrong.
But as you said in your first paragraph,it is all just my opinion and who cares..

Posted by: Tom_Ohio at August 28, 2011 02:12 AM (7U2lm)

250 236: Spoken like a true believer.
But this is about Rick Perry and associations and actions that he should answer for.
What does he have to answer for when his "associations and actions" are being assailed without credible evidence ? Absent credible evidence to the contrary this isnothing more thanan LBJ-style "pig-f****r" tactic.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 02:12 AM (yK8YH)

251 Are we really in favor of genocide? As I asked the other night, will U.S. troops line up women and children for slaughter. And if so, then please explain the outrage when Kerry or Obama accuse U.S. troops of killing women and children?
Braindeadprogressive ex-patriot. The women will be liberated from their christianistpatriarcy (for chaste childbearing duty of course) and the chirdren shine in the light of the Obamasiah.
@231 fooled you once

Posted by: moslim brohood at August 28, 2011 02:13 AM (iSQB2)

252 It's not the Borg, jackass.


Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011
02:11 AM (8Zpuz)

Then what the fuck is it? You're the fucking expert now so tell us all what it is. What's Islam all about, that should be easy enough for you with all your great insight.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:13 AM (GZitp)

253 Welcome, drones. I know you are just passing through, but we are nothing here if not courteous.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 02:13 AM (9CM5J)

254 I'm reminded of how we took two of the most insane warlike societies in history and forcibly channeled their aggression into economic prowess rather than military prowess after WWII.

A lot of Muslim societies have shown great potential in terms of modernization through economics. They must be defeated on the battlefield first, but thats a potential endgame to consider.

Posted by: BSR at August 28, 2011 02:15 AM (BH4RQ)

255 Is that JackM warming up in the bloggerpen? EpicPoem for the close!

Posted by: Atlas Shagged at August 28, 2011 02:15 AM (h6XiD)

256 Option 1. Ann Coulter's "Bomb their cities, kill
their leaders and convert them to Christianity. " Not a pretty option.
We are still beating ourselves up for what we had to do in WWII, we
would create a whole new apology industry if we did this option.

Option
2. We pull some sort of epic black op and undermine em somehow, making
em become irreligious without bombing em into the stone age. Yes Rock
Roll is infectious but I'm not confident we can bring em down with
that and Dallas reruns. Their faith runs pretty deep.


Posted by: John Morris at August 28, 2011 02:07 AM (41hR3)
Option 1 isn't just ugly, it's impossible. Convert them to Christianity? WTF? Never mind that most American Christians aren't even sufficiently Christian to take the time to read through a whole chapter of the Bible, what are you going to do with the atheists?Option 2 has never been pulled off in human history and I'm not holding my breath.
This Islamic issue is being overthought. If all 1.5 billion Muslims, or even a sizable majority of them, were committed to global domination, we'd have a real issue on our hands and it would be damned obvious.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 02:16 AM (8Zpuz)

257 Then what the fuck is it? You're the fucking expert now so tell us all what it is. What's Islam all about, that should be easy enough for you with all your great insight.
Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:13 AM (GZitp)
Its peewee community tee-ball.

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 02:16 AM (GULKT)

258 Irene has turned into just another bad storm. All the news agencies are trying to save face. Hype meeting reality is not a pretty sight. Rumor has it that Christie is going to beach himself, and Bloomberg will be blown out of office.

Posted by: Breaker19 at August 28, 2011 02:17 AM (WCm02)

259 Yoshi posted at comment #234:
You imply Islam is some kind of a hive-mind-like entity with a unifying
global directive. That is quite a fantastic claim for which you have
provided no evidence. Talking about how some Muslims kill those of
another religion is unrelated to that claim. Hindus slaughtered Muslims
like sheep after India's liberation.

Uh, dude, did you follow my links -- as in, particularly, the one detailing the "Islamic Emirates Project?'

Also, if you are so unfamiliar with the subject that you do not know of the goal of worldwide caliphate, or the concepts of the dar 'l-islam and the dar 'l-harb, then get cracking. I prescribe three weeks of daily reading of the AtlasShrugs blog.

When you say: "Talking about how some Muslims kill those of
another religion is unrelated to that claim," I scratch my head. An ongoing, worldwide trend that produces tens of thousands of violent Muslim-on-(fill-in-the-blank) incidents over a ten-year time-frame is statistically significant. (See http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)


Or, do you insist on closing your eyes to the unpleasant reality? If so, there is no point in going on with this.

Posted by: man_in_tx at August 28, 2011 02:18 AM (mtzAh)

260 Could the Islamic Lecture Series of posters put all that in a box and label it "shit we already know"?

Now, unless you have a plan that has a chance of working *AND IS GOING TO HAPPEN ON THE EARTH INHABITING THIS UNIVERSE*, could you please turn the volume down to ear-busting on the team-fragging?

Seriously, do you have a plan other than "attack the only natural allies I have so that when I fail utterly and completely I can at least say it was my own fault?"

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 02:19 AM (bxiXv)

261 241/248:
How many voters do you think will be won over by your Dr. Strangelove meets Emperor Leo rhetoric, lowandslow ? Thanks for making the mainstream media's job of portraying Republicans as fanatical Christian theocrat racist knuckle-draggers a bit easier.
Oh, and thanks for calling usall liberals and Islamic apologists.I can tell you've spent a wealth of time her reading my commentssince 2004 since you've outed me on my less-than-hidden traitorious sympathies. And G*dknows I'm not alone on that score. You know those "Moron-Meet-Ups" we talk about from time to time ? You caught us - in fact we're going to Islamic sensitivity training together and learning community outreach.
Jackass.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 02:19 AM (yK8YH)

262 Also I make my fair share of spelling errors, but morphing "outlier" into "out-lyer". Seriously?

Posted by: BSR at August 28, 2011 02:19 AM (BH4RQ)

263 Then
what the fuck is it? You're the fucking expert now so tell us all what
it is. What's Islam all about, that should be easy enough for you with
all your great insight.


Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:13 AM (GZitp)

I'm not an expert. It doesn't take an expert to apply Occam's Razor.
What's more likely - Islam is a committed religious army of 1.5 billion soldiers operating under the same agenda, i.e. destroying the Judeo-Christian-Naturalist West and our civilizations, orIslam is mostly made up of noncommittal people largely uneducated in their own religion who care more about living comfortable lives than killing someone 3000 miles away?Simple logic and experience with Muzzies suggests the latter.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 02:21 AM (8Zpuz)

264 So. Anyone else feel like sticking their ass up in the air and kissing some carpet while facing east?

Posted by: Durka at August 28, 2011 02:25 AM (QjrRF)

265 259: I'll refrain from my heavy sarc re: lowandslow since you didn't name-call, but take a moment to read your post from the perspective of someone who isn't already a true believer. How does that sound ? There's a world conspiracy, you don't know the truth, or you won't accept it, etc... No different from George Nouri/Art Bell. New World Order ? Globalism ?
BTW, 90% of us already follow the websites where your TRUTH is located, Diogenes.
Stop acting like you're the only person who knows "The Truth." We all distrust Islamic intentions and believe that a great deal of what they tell us is bullshit. However, we also know Muslims in our own circle of friends who don't believe this in any way shape or form, and no, I don't think they're all part of some Quaranic sleeper-cell. Inconceivably enough, a great deal of people don't give a shit about grand causes and just want to make enough money to raise some kids and have a comfortable lifestyle.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 02:25 AM (yK8YH)

266 Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 02:12 AM (yK8YH)
Please ask yourself why Perry felt compelled to have the curriculum drawn up under the guidance of the Aga Khan in the first place. As if Infidels have no standing when it comes to an objective accounting of Islam- its beliefs and history. There are innumerable Western scholars he could have chosen from- with Spencer himself being one of the best.

Under Sharia, it's not allowed for the kaffir(non-muslim) to defend himself in a trial. But he must be spoken for by a muslim. Apparently, Rick Perry believes that the kaffir has no right to teach Islamic history to other kaffir- it must be under the auspices of a muslim.

This is bad for Perry. It looks bad. But it's also much worse than just "bad optics". Geller/Spencer presented a damaging case-it's the anti-Geller crowd who are respond with character assassination.

Posted by: november1981 at August 28, 2011 02:25 AM (3TGfa)

267 Jackass.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 02:19 AM (yK8YH)

What the fuck difference does it make what I say when there are enough liberals passing themselves off as conservatives that want to do nothing. Nothing constructive at least. We've followed the failed ideas of so called conservative for ten years now in this asinine changing hearts and minds bullshit and we have basically nothing but a shit load of dead soldiers to show for it.
I know enough about Islam to know it isn't compatible to our western ideals and culture so I propose we do something about it, what's your plan?

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:25 AM (GZitp)

268 what's hysterical about this ( i forgot where we started in this topic) , i'm actually trying to figure out if it is possible to even strengthen the hand of moderates Enough (are there many? or enough, I do wish they'd start speaking up in mass)(although i know that could also mean death to themselves sigh) that the world can by-pass a war of the world scenario.

Posted by: willow at August 28, 2011 02:26 AM (h+qn8)

269 posted by yoshi at #244:
Posted by: man_in_tx at August 28, 2011 01:55 AM (mtzAh)


Nice you can talk about extermination in such grandiloquent terms.

/////////

My reply:

Nice you can ignore the extermination that jihadis have inflicted in one Thai community, to name JUST ONE EXAMPLE. How is not fighting back with intensity helping Southern Thailand? Southern Thailand has already been all but lost by leaders who think like you.

Question: Is it noble to close one's eyes to the hostile intentions of an internal enemy -- an enemy that would think nothing of slitting your throat and mine (and would think they were pleasing Allah in so doing)?

Please do not try to cast Western cowardice and passivity in the face of a determined enemy as somehow being noble.

Posted by: man_in_tx at August 28, 2011 02:26 AM (mtzAh)

270 I love this weblog. Allah be praised. Ace always provides me with further insights in how to properly follow the prophet Mohammed (pbuh).

Posted by: Durka at August 28, 2011 02:26 AM (QjrRF)

271 "The framers couldn't possibly have conceived of x" is an idiotic argument whenever its trotted out. Congrats on joining the progressives who use that argument to shred the constitution every other fuckin week.

Not to mention, the framers were well aware of the history of islam and the certainly the history of religious warfare in general and still found it prudent to include the first amendment.

FFS, one of the first wars we fought was against muslims. This wasn't an alien, inconceivable concept like the internet or air travel (both of which exist fine without constitutional tinkering)

Posted by: BSR at August 28, 2011 02:27 AM (BH4RQ)

272 237 Every one does know that "Agha Khan" is a title; "The Agha Khan", not a proper name, right?
Posted by: Arbalest at August 28, 2011 02:07 AM (Wh+YQ)

I don't know, but she was great in Rufus.

Posted by: TexasJew at August 28, 2011 02:27 AM (DB7UQ)

273 Uh, dude, did you follow my links -- as in, particularly, the one detailing the "Islamic Emirates Project?'

Yeah what part of that involved more than a billion Muslims? Do you even know how many Muslims are in the group? Hint: not that many.

Also,
if you are so unfamiliar with the subject that you do not know of the
goal of worldwide caliphate, or the concepts of the dar 'l-islam and the
dar 'l-harb, then get cracking. I prescribe three weeks of daily
reading of the AtlasShrugs blog.

Give me a break. Again the question is, how does this affect the majority of Muslims?

When you say: "Talking about how
some Muslims kill those of
another religion is unrelated to that claim," I scratch my head. An
ongoing, worldwide trend that produces tens of thousands of violent
Muslim-on-(fill-in-the-blank) incidents over a ten-year time-frame is
statistically significant. (See http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/)

Yeah, want to know how many Muslims were slaughtered (by Muslims) in the Iran-Iraq War? About a million or so. Sounds like the people who really need to watch their backs are Muslims.

Coming up with evidence of jihadist cells or secretive caliphate cabals a far-reaching argument does not make. Again, there are 1.5 billion Muslims in the world, most of them not in the Middle East. How does this apply to them again??

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 02:28 AM (8Zpuz)

274 Fact or Fiction: Geraldo is a complete jackass?

Fact.

Posted by: Breaker19 at August 28, 2011 02:28 AM (WCm02)

275

OK. Now my text is rejected because it "looks like spam". GODDAMN IT! I DON'T WANT TO CHANGE MY TEXT!

Posted by: daybrother at August 28, 2011 02:28 AM (mexsR)

276 The only way I can see the west and Islam coexisting is if groups such as the Ishmali's rise up and work to reform their religion. If Islam is literally interpreted, we are doomed.

Is this possible? I don't know. Honestly, I don't know. If we look at the course of history, the relations between Islam and everyone else has not been pretty.

Our current path of "nation building" with Sharia written into the constitution of embryonic states does not seem hopeful.

However, perhaps Khan is a link to reform. Perhaps he is committed to Jihad. He wouldn't be the first "friend" to turn on us.

What are our options? In my mind, it seems prudent for us to try to work with someone who might be our friend, as long as we never are put in a situation where our trust of their moderation puts us in danger.

From my perspective, Perry did not put us in danger by giving Khan a platform. Perhaps it would be better if the target of his message were not school children, but other Muslims.

Posted by: Lauren at August 28, 2011 02:29 AM (ghJ2e)

277 "Islam is mostly made up of noncommittal people largely uneducated in their own religion who care more about living comfortable lives than killing someone 3000 miles away?"
Spoken truly like someone who has never been in an islamic country. This is not a slam at all. Read the qu'ran, all of it.
That achmed down the street has the duty to do this
Qur'an 2:191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 02:29 AM (wY55N)

278 Islam is mostly made up of noncommittal people largely uneducated in their own religion who care more about living comfortable lives than killing someone 3000 miles away?

Is there a better arguement foreducating - and changing by force of arms - the predominant mindset of these hive-minded former not-islamic innocent suppressed minorities?! Or mow them down when they are lead by the Iman to chargeour battlements?

Posted by: moslim brohood at August 28, 2011 02:30 AM (iSQB2)

279 Nice you can ignore the extermination that jihadis
have inflicted in one Thai community, to name JUST ONE EXAMPLE. How is
not fighting back with intensity helping Southern Thailand? Southern
Thailand has already been all but lost by leaders who think like you.


Posted by: man_in_tx at August 28, 2011 02:26 AM (mtzAh)

I like how you aren't denying that you were actually proposing genocide.Maybe we should have nuked all of India during the breakup, because of the extermination Hindu partisans inflicted on migrating Muslims.Maybe we should have gone after Lebanese Christian terrorists.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 02:30 AM (8Zpuz)

280 Hey Juggaloes. Tell Pam her tits aren't that impressive.

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 02:30 AM (GULKT)

281 Swear to doG, this is the dumbest thread I've ever seen here.

Look, Stacy McCain identified a stupid rule called "get some enemies" or "make some" or smoke some or whatever. Enough already. It's a stupid rule. All you have to do is invite in your own natural enemies. Like put up a post about how Ron Paul is never going to win nuthin'. Then get someone to link it to a Ronulan site. You'll get all the clicks you can use. No need to stir up some shit with bloggers normally not causing you pain.

Hell, I'll up the ante. You all suck. Now go click them intarwebs and make these bloggers famous or whatever. I got other shit to do.

Posted by: K~Bob at August 28, 2011 02:31 AM (9b6FB)

282
I remember Ponytail's posts getting tripolar. Then he started to hone in on strange subjects besides bicycles and then he said Geller hated him and Spencer was wrong and well....what blog am I going to hang out at next?

Posted by: daybrother at August 28, 2011 02:31 AM (mexsR)

283 >>>The whole damned point of all the articles Ace cited is that the alleged "dhimmi" cirriculum was in fact a fairly hard-nosed look at Islam's flaws.

Well bear in mind the main correction: That was just one curriculum from one teachers; other teachers had their own.

Still, in the test case we know of, the supposed "dahwah" to literally convert teachers to Musselmans (I am using old-school spellings deliberately) so they could in turn convert schoolchildren to Mohammadans failed.

You can go over there and read the shit she's pulling from the lessons. I'm telling you, it's your typical college sort Intro to Islam crap. No, it's not right-wing hardcore against Islam. No, we would not think it was accurate.

But it's the same as the crap taught everywhere by anyone in academia.

There is no particular reason to even note it, except Pamela needs a new outrage and maybe she's decided she needs to tank Perry.

Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 02:31 AM (nj1bB)

284 Juggs

Posted by: daybrother at August 28, 2011 02:32 AM (mexsR)

285 Islam is mostly made up of noncommittal people largely uneducated in
their own religion who care more about living comfortable lives than
killing someone 3000 miles away?-Posted by: Yoshi
The same held true for muslims during the five century long Islamic assault on Europe. I would imagine most muslims living in Anatolia, and the Caucasus and Arabia were just trying to get by(just like us)- yet their sons marched off to make Jihad on Europe incessantly.

So by your reasoning, Communism was no great threat as we all know that the Russians love their children too?

Posted by: november1981 at August 28, 2011 02:32 AM (3TGfa)

286 Wow I totally missed the second half of that post. Totally covered what I was saying. Who would have thought the fold would have 10000 words above it and below it.

But again to summarize. I cannot condone a path whose only reasonable success is genocide.

and basically living under a constant threat of what some Muslims may do because of the first amendment? Was that the founders intentions? I find that hard to believe.

I can assure you that, not trading freedom for security was exactly their intent.


Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 02:32 AM (GE1+K)

287 Spoken truly like someone who has never been in an islamic country. This is not a slam at all. Read the qu'ran, all of it.

Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 02:29 AM (wY55N)



Oh you mean like India? I hear Westerners are confined to bunkered Green Zones there, for fear of getting beheaded.

You are talking about 1.5 billion Muslims here.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 02:32 AM (8Zpuz)

288 Not to mention, the framers were well aware of the
history of islam and the certainly the history of religious warfare in
general and still found it prudent to include the first amendment.



FFS, one of the first wars we fought was against muslims. This wasn't an
alien, inconceivable concept like the internet or air travel (both of
which exist fine without constitutional tinkering)

Posted by: BSR at August 28, 2011 02:27 AM (BH4RQ)

Oh for Christ sake. No weren't thinking of Islam when they wrote the first amendment. They weren't even that far removed from disallowing certain denominations of Christians from holding any office. As I said before, fifty years ago we wouldn't have dreamed of allowing this kind of migration of Muslims.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:33 AM (GZitp)

289 267 - what the hell are you proposing ? World war with Islam ? Try selling that in the upcoming elections, Karl Rove.
And don't try to sidestep the fact that you verbally fragged all of us by changing the subject. We're on your side yet you feel perfectly comfortable going Robespierre on us and wagging your allegedly-better-informed finger at us re: Islam. I get enoughfinger-wagging from Barry, thanks, I don't need it from you.
We aren't ignorant and you aren't in possession of superior knowlege. We just disagree on how to deal with the same facts. Kindly keep that in mind before you imply that I'm a 9/11 apologist. That's something I will always take personally.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 02:34 AM (yK8YH)

290 k-bob, u suck more.

neener

Posted by: willow at August 28, 2011 02:34 AM (h+qn8)

291 Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of ...
256 This Islamic issue is being overthought. If all 1.5 billion Muslims, or even a sizable majority of them, were committed to global domination, we'd have a real issue on our hands and it would be damned obvious.
Islam really is The Borg. The Koran cannot be changed or questioned; every mullah says so.
Check out WeaselZippers: "Malaysia Forms “Faith-Rescue Unit” For Muslims Tempted By Christianity…" ... Indonesia is starting to have even more Islamic agitation for stricter adherence to Islam ... the Muslims in Northern Nigeria are still burning Christian churches in the area ... and then there's the Sudan ...

263 Islam is mostly made up of noncommittal people largely uneducated in their own religion who care more about living comfortable lives than killing someone 3000 miles away?
Simple logic and experience with Muzzies suggests the latter.
Let's not forget al Andalus, and the Muslims now trying to pray in the church in Cordoba (originally a church that was forceably converted into a mosque) ... and all the no-go zones in France and Sweden; specifically no-go zones forFrenchmen and Swedes ... who lives in these zones?

Posted by: Arbalest at August 28, 2011 02:34 AM (Wh+YQ)

292 >>>Geller/Spencer presented a damaging case-it's the anti-Geller crowd who are respond with character assassination.

Why did Geller have to doctor a quote if the case was damaging?

Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 02:34 AM (nj1bB)

293 The same held true for muslims during the five
century long Islamic assault on Europe. I would imagine most muslims
living in Anatolia, and the Caucasus and Arabia were just trying to get
by(just like us)- yet their sons marched off to make Jihad on Europe
incessantly.

So by your reasoning, Communism was no great threat as we all know that the Russians love their children too?


Posted by: november1981 at August 28, 2011 02:32 AM (3TGfa)

Ohhh shit. You know what you are proposing? Islamic armies in a frontal assault against the West. Uniformed, organized armies. Now that would be awesome. (It also destroys your analogy)By the way, who proposed nuking all the Russians as a viable solution to the Cold War? Was that Reagan?

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 02:35 AM (8Zpuz)

294 I am not advocating genocide. Never. To be a good muslim you have to kill or convert the infidel. The kuffar if you will. Genocide is exactly what the achmed down the street will do to us.
You have three options with islam.
Convert to islam.
Accept 2nd class status and pay the jizya.
Die.

How do you fight that?

Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 02:36 AM (wY55N)

295 So by your reasoning, Communism was no great threat as we all know that the Russians love their children too?

Did we have to line them up and shoot them to stop them? Did we ban teaching communism as a form of government in schools while the USSR was around? Should every communist alive in the US today be locked up? As much as there are some lines we cannot allow an enemy to cross, there are others we cannot cross if we intend to remain a free society.

Lose the fundamental principal of a free society and we might as well codify Sharia, it will be no different.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 02:36 AM (GE1+K)

296 Ace, I think the real question here is would there be any curriculum that Pamela would approve?

If school children were given copies of Robert's book, would she be upset?

I ask because Robert's books explain Islam in much the same terms as the exerts you sited. He talks about what they believe, esp. in regards to Mohammad being the "perfect man."

By her logic, is Robert attempting to convert his readers to Islam?

This whole thing depresses me.

Posted by: Lauren at August 28, 2011 02:37 AM (ghJ2e)

297 What the fuck difference does it make what I say when there are enough liberals passing themselves off as conservatives that want to do nothing. Nothing constructive at least. We've followed the failed ideas of so called conservative for ten years now in this asinine changing hearts and minds bullshit and we have basically nothing but a shit load of dead soldiers to show for it.I know enough about Islam to know it isn't compatible to our western ideals and culture so I propose we do something about it, what's your plan?Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:25 AM (GZitp)

Wait - if we're all crypto-liberals for not being properly enthusiastic about genocide, why do you hang out here? Surely there must be other blogs more to your taste.

Posted by: Mætenloch at August 28, 2011 02:38 AM (/3HNy)

298 How do you fight that?

It's a two step process. Step one is use force to stop their violence.

Step two is migrating the mainstream belief into something compatible with the West.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 02:38 AM (GE1+K)

299 I dont understand why looking at reality as it exists is in and of itself an act of submission. The things we do re: islam have to be done within the framework of the constitution and the law. Immigration policy? Sure thats possible to achieve but it wont solve the problem to the extent the Juggers want it to be solved. Amending the constitution to explicitly exempt one religion from protection is a wonderful pipe dream for you guys to wack to as you go to sleep, but it just wont happen. You are free to come up with a workable solution or try to change hearts and minds or you are free to throw rocks from the back of the crowd.

Let's say you all win, lets say Palin, or whoever you think agrees with you is elected president. Will you be disappointed when you realize he/she wont send all muslims to camps? or invent a loophole in the constitution to ban islam? cause guess what, that wont happen ever unless America becomes something that I wouldnt recognize.

Good luck with that, and remember what happened to Robespierre in the end.

Posted by: BSR at August 28, 2011 02:38 AM (BH4RQ)

300 267 - what the hell are you proposing ? World
war with Islam ? Try selling that in the upcoming elections, Karl
Rove.Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 02:34 AM (yK8YH)

Fuck'n strawmen. Nobody is proposing all out war or genocide. Removing Islam from the west doen't mean any of that. They have half the world to practice their fucking religion.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:39 AM (GZitp)

301 low as in forehead
slow as in thought

Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at August 28, 2011 02:40 AM (KJMY9)

302 Wait - if we're all crypto-liberals for not being
properly enthusiastic about genocide, why do you hang out here? Surely
there must be other blogs more to your taste.

Posted by: Mætenloch at August 28, 2011 02:38 AM (/3HNy)

Nobody is proposing genocide, that's just a weak response cause you can't make a real argument.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:41 AM (GZitp)

303 Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:25 AM (GZitp) Wait - if we're all crypto-liberals for not being properly enthusiastic about genocide, why do you hang out here? Surely there must be other blogs more to your taste.
Posted by: Mætenloch at August 28, 2011 02:38 AM (/3HNy
Don't bother Maet. He thinks Peewee Community Tee-ball is a commie plot.

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 02:41 AM (GULKT)

304
At this point, Ace is punching down.
Posted by: AmishDude at August 28, 2011 01:00 AM (73tyQ)

Yes, Ace should really aim higher:
http://tinyurl.com/3q465j4

Posted by: mrobvious at August 28, 2011 02:41 AM (G7Jng)

305 Why did Geller have to doctor a quote if the case was damaging?- ace

Which quote, please? I think I've missed that.

Again- why did Perry engage an Islamic organization to formulate a curriculum on Islam for Texas schools. Paging Bernard Lewis? Hello! Oh yeah, he's a Jew.




Posted by: november1981 at August 28, 2011 02:41 AM (3TGfa)

306 Spoken truly like someone who has never been in an Islamic country.

Been to Malaysia. While the second Iraq war and Afghanistan was hot and heavy. Had a great time. Why do you ask?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 02:41 AM (GE1+K)

307 Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at August 28, 2011 02:40 AM (KJMY9)
What the fuck is your plan? I've this a dozen times and none of you have an answer.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:42 AM (GZitp)

308 Check out WeaselZippers: "Malaysia Forms “Faith-Rescue Unit” For Muslims
Tempted By Christianity…" ... Indonesia is starting to have even more
Islamic agitation for stricter adherence to Islam ... the Muslims in
Northern Nigeria are still burning Christian churches in the area ...
and then there's the Sudan ...

Just read the what the "Faith-Rescue Unit" is about...

“It is hoped that Muslims who have received or are thinking of receiving
aid from churches or Christian organisations can come to the Islamic
Affairs, Malay Culture, Infrastructure and Public Amenities Exco to give
their details so that help can be provided immediately,” Hasan said.

This kind of crap is not at all limited to Islam. It happens in any area where religious traditions have been historically entrenched. Ask missionaries.

Again this isn't really radical...more like a Muslim help line. Nobody getting abducted and beheaded at midnight.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 02:42 AM (8Zpuz)

309 294: Yes, we've all read Robert's books, we know the three options, but you seem to think all Muslims are equally literalistic and devout. Stop preaching truth to us like its going to open our eyes. We all know shitloads of Christians who don't literally interpret the Bible - hell, Howard Dean once belonged to an allegedly Christian church, and he mangles scripture worse than the Devil himself. Muslims may be more literalistic and devout as a rule, but that still leaves millions who are just as irreligious and backsliding as every drunken debauched Moron on this site. As odd as it sounds, that's our constituency for reform, unless you're with the aptly-nicked lowandslow and you simply want to exterminate THE ENEMY.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 02:43 AM (yK8YH)

310 Removing Islam from the west doen't mean any of that. They have half the world to practice their fucking religion.

This is disingenuous. Islam is, by it's nature, an expansionist ideology. If the US decides to ship every single Muslim back to Whereverstan tomorrow, we haven't solved a thing. We've kicked the can a few years, maybe. The ideology is still there, and the hunger for dominance hasn't changed. Eventually, it will come to a head.

What is our end game? The way I see it we can either work to change Islam, or we accept that there will be a global war.

Posted by: Lauren at August 28, 2011 02:43 AM (ghJ2e)

311 Again- why did Perry engage an Islamic organization to formulate a curriculum on Islam for Texas schools.

Right, they should call in Hindu's to write the whole of the symposium on Christianity.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 02:43 AM (GE1+K)

312 >>>I think I understand Geller's/Spencer's objections to the supposed "whitewash" of the curriculum by suggesting that Muslim antisemitism was influenced by Nazi propaganda. I don't think they are objecting to the severity of the comparison, but to the lack of depth that it represents - Muslim antisemitism is deeper, it is faith-based, from the Koran, but Nazi antisemitism is more superficial, based mainly on scapegoat-ism. It doesn't have the deep, religious roots that Muslim antisemitism has.

I don't disagree. I am saying Spencer thinks that if someone errs by saying "Muslim anti-semitism dates at least to the victory of Nazi propaganda in 1933," he thinks that's "soft on Muslims" and "muslim-coddling."

I don't dispute the statement is in error.

What I am trying to get at is the... mindset here. That if someone says "Muslims got mentored by Adolf Hitler, the MONSTER," then that person is "whitewashing" Islamic history.

Do you get me? yes, the statement is in error.

No, it is not "whitewashing." It's in error, but it's not muslim-coddling.

Look, if you call someone a Nazi, in what world is that "whitewashing" them?

Well, in Spencer's world.

That's how hardline you have to be -- that calling Muslims Nazi stooges is TOO EASY ON THEM.

Now, it's fine for him to pop off on a blog about that.

But the world does not share that particular conviction, and real life politicians have to live in the real life world, don't they?

Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 02:43 AM (nj1bB)

313 Don't bother Maet. He thinks Peewee Community
Tee-ball is a commie plot.

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 02:41 AM (GULKT)

You're a gutless lying cocksucker. Ain't got the fucking balls to make an argument, just likes to sit back and snark at other people. You're a real piece of work.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:44 AM (GZitp)

314 Ohhh shit. You know what you are proposing? Islamic armies in a frontal assault against the West. Uniformed, organized armies. Now that would be awesome. (It also destroys your analogy)- yoshi

Why would they need to mount an assault now? We've let them in the front door.

Posted by: november1981 at August 28, 2011 02:44 AM (3TGfa)

315 I didn't ask. I stated. Tell me, you let any of your indigs walk behind you?

Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 02:45 AM (wY55N)

316 The way I see it we can either work to change Islam, or we accept that there will be a global war.

Right or we just need to use nuclear weapons and start lining people up. I see no third way.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 02:45 AM (GE1+K)

317 I do know this -- I deleted my Atlas_Shrugged bookmark. I'm thinking about dumping the Jihad Watch one too. Spencer got real personally nasty towards Ace; I won't soon forget that Robert.

I hope it made you happy somehow.

Posted by: GnuBreed at August 28, 2011 02:45 AM (bvXGR)

318 As odd as it sounds, that's our constituency for
reform, unless you're with the aptly-nicked lowandslow and you simply
want to exterminate THE ENEMY.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 02:43 AM (yK8YH)

Is there no end to your lying?

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:45 AM (GZitp)

319 I plan to continue to try to find some pictures of Jugg's Jugs so I can see what the fuss is about. You?

Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at August 28, 2011 02:46 AM (KJMY9)

320 I love that I can page down 3 times and at the bottom of this post there's a 'continue reading' waiting for me.

Posted by: garrett at August 28, 2011 02:46 AM (fugty)

321 I am just disgusted by this. It's just a game of Let's Make Up Some Red Meat for our latest burst of blog traffic.

It's just a denunciation game to them, like schoolgirls in Salem, Mass., making up new allegations of witchcraft.

It's fun. It gets you power. It makes life interesting. People pay attention.

And it's disgusting.

I never linked Geller so I don't have to feel that guilty. But then, I left her alone during her various Birtherism freak-outs. I didn't want to make waves.

Well, I didn't make waves, and no one else did,* and now we have the new allegations of witchcraft.

* Well Charles Johnson did, but he was such a dick I assumed he was making shit up. Plus he called everyone a fascist.

Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 02:46 AM (nj1bB)

322 Step One: Ban all immigration from muslim countries

Step Two: Deport all non citizen muslims

Those things can be done under the law, now tell me Juggers what is the next step that can be realistically taken that doesnt involve your wetdreams of ignoring the law and the constitution.

And bullshit the framers couldnt conceive of islam, IT FUCKING EXISTED AT THE TIME.

Thomas Jefferson was so ignorant of Islam that he owned and read the Koran, but I suppose he was some sort of pre-dhimmi that should be discounted.

Posted by: BSR at August 28, 2011 02:47 AM (BH4RQ)

323
How do you fight that?

Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 02:36 AM (wY55N)
By asking rhetorical questions obviously!
Nobody is proposing genocide, that's just a weak response cause you can't make a real argument.


Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:41 AM (GZitp)

Bullshit. I inferred that from man-in-tx's vague propositions, posted it, and he then accused me of being soft on Islam for ignoring violence against some random Thais.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 02:47 AM (8Zpuz)

324 This kind of crap is not at all limited to Islam. It happens in any area where religious traditions have been historically entrenched. Ask missionaries.Again this isn't really radical...more like a Muslim help line. Nobody getting abducted and beheaded at midnight.
Read more, specifically the context of religion and political parties in Malaysia today. It is a Muslim help line ... they come out and help those whom they choose, and they frequently do it during the daytime ... all legal.

Posted by: Arbalest at August 28, 2011 02:47 AM (Wh+YQ)

325 300: Square that with the First Amendment, Herman Cain. And explain to all the merely-deported-rather-than-killed Muslims why we can practice Christianity in light of the rather nasty admonishments of the Old Testament while they have to live in some other half of the world.
Once again, I'm with you in spirit, but disagree with the details, and it's not out of some misplaced hippy instinct for "tolerance" or ignorance of Muslim duplicity.
Do you know even one Muslim who you don't believe to be a terrorist sympathizer ?

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 02:47 AM (yK8YH)

326 But the world does not share that particular conviction, and real life politicians have to live in the real life world, don't they?
DhimmiRino!

Posted by: garrett at August 28, 2011 02:49 AM (fugty)

327 Sorry for the multiple post, but I'm trying to work this all out in my head.

The way I see it, Robert and Pamela have done a valuable service in pointing out the elephant in the room that violence is encoded in Islam.

However, where I am newly diverging from them is when they claim that reform is impossible, and that the reformers are frauds.

Maybe they're right. If so, we're fucked. I will stand with them when they say that Islam, as it is currently formulated, is completely incompatable with western civilization. I can't stand with them when they say that it must always be the case. Will change be easy? No. New interpretations of Islam are banned, and the Ismalis are branded as heretics. Is it possible? God, I hope so.

If it is possible, it can only work if we are willing to give an audience to reformers.

Posted by: Lauren at August 28, 2011 02:49 AM (ghJ2e)

328 By the way, who proposed nuking all the Russians as a viable solution to the Cold War? Was that Reagan?
We begin bombing in five minutes...

Posted by: meleager at August 28, 2011 02:49 AM (iSQB2)

329 You're all gonna die! Run for your lives!

(this post sponsored by Home Depot and Walmart)

Posted by: News Media at August 28, 2011 02:50 AM (WCm02)

330 Well all this want me to do two things:
Convert to Islam and to see screenshots of Pamela Geller's tits.

Posted by: TexasJew at August 28, 2011 02:50 AM (DB7UQ)

331 I was asking a question. It was not rhetorical. How do you fight something that is literally willing to blow up thier families to either convert you, enslave you, or kill you?

Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 02:50 AM (wY55N)

332 srsly though i wish more moderates would get off the pot and state, after the next attack (we know it will happen) ,anywhere in the world ,"not in our name" i might feel better about trying to defend moderates.
convince me!
anyway i'll slink off and try to sleep with this all dancing around my brain , like a tumor i'm sure

Posted by: willow at August 28, 2011 02:50 AM (h+qn8)

333 Why would they need to mount an assault now? We've let them in the front door.


Posted by: november1981 at August 28, 2011 02:44 AM (3TGfa)

Yeah cause Muslims are going to take over the US.What, what?This is the problem with the reflexive war of civilizations crowd. You intimate details and hope the listener imagines the very worst scenario.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 02:50 AM (8Zpuz)

334 Fuck'n strawmen. Nobody is proposing all out war or genocide. Removing Islam from the west doen't mean any of that. They have half the world to practice their fucking religion.
Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:39 AM (GZitp)

That is *SERIOUSLY* your fucking plan? Throw everybody who *might* be a radical out, whatever they call themselves, give them half the fucking plant, throw up a wall and hide behind it? From an aggressive, expansionist, and now feeling *very* dispossessed billion and a half people?

That doesn't even rise to the level of a *bad* plan, that's horseshit.

And you keep asking for someone else's plan, and we keep telling you - WE HAVE TO FIX THE PROBLEM, and the problem is that the core of the faith is designed to kill, conquer, and resist reform.

Until you fix THAT, you are just prolonging the conflict. And it would seem that if there are Muslims who are sick of that shit, and there are, whether they're reformers or just scared of their fellows, getting them on board with fixing the problem would seem to be a good first step.

Trying to throw up a wall (even a figurative one) in the nuclear age is like rebooting the Cold War, only an order of magnitude more stupid.

Seriously, that's your plan?

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 02:50 AM (bxiXv)

335 You're a gutless lying cocksucker. Ain't got the fucking balls to make an argument, just likes to sit back and snark at other people. You're a real piece of work.
Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:44 AM (GZitp)
I'm exaggerating for humorous effect you slow witted fool. But the truth isn't that far off.

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 02:50 AM (GULKT)

336 yoshi writes at #263:

What's more likely - Islam is a committed religious
army of 1.5 billion soldiers operating under the same agenda, i.e.
destroying the Judeo-Christian-Naturalist West and our civilizations, orIslam
is mostly made up of noncommittal people largely uneducated in their
own religion who care more about living comfortable lives than killing
someone 3000 miles away?Simple logic and experience with Muzzies suggests the latter.

///////////////////////////

my reply:

Who matters in any movement/religion are the leaders, not the average joes, with whom you seem so enamored.

Which of your two options do you think Imams and Mullahs teach in the majority of mosques in this country (or around the world)....?

To ask the question is to answer it.

That Islam has internal divisions (the Shi'i/Sunni being the most obvious) in no way obviates the fact that adherents of ALL major sects of Islam consider themselves superior (with all that entails) to the infidels.

The current President of Turkey, Erdogan, is on record as saying:
"The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers."
http://tinyurl.com/3e3l72h

Posted by: man_in_tx at August 28, 2011 02:50 AM (mtzAh)

337 328: I hope that is snark or you are the dumbest person alive

Posted by: BSR at August 28, 2011 02:51 AM (BH4RQ)

338 Do you know even one Muslim who you don't believe
to be a terrorist sympathizer ?

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 02:47 AM (yK8YH)

I'm sure there's plenty, doesn't mean Islam as a whole is compatible with the West and it's not just jihadism. The question is what do we do about it? What I propose is only radical to our ever increasing liberal notion of fairness.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:51 AM (GZitp)

339 Thanks, everyone, for your awesome support.

It means a lot.

But just wanted to say:

Those of you wishing me well, and saying don't let them get you down -- thank you! But I'm not down. As you can maybe tell I'm not really emotional about this.

The only thing I'm pissed about is that "the" thing, because that required a big correction.

And I'm pissed that I spent like all day dealing with Madame Geller and her jihad-moll. I wanted to do other things.

You don't have to un-bookmark anyone out of solidarity or support. I appreciate the gesture! But it's not necessary at all. If you want to delink --if, for example, you now find Geller's lurid dishonesty in truncating quotes now makes her without credibility and not worth reading -- well then de-bookmark away.

But if you'd still like to read, please do that too.

I appreciate all of you, dearly (and I don't say that nearly enough), but you don't need to do anything to support me except click on my site.

Hell, you don't even have to read me. No one else does.

As for Robert Spencer's insults-- again, thank you for your support, but as you probably realized, Robert Spencer is as good at insulting people as he is at identifying true Muslim Moderates. Neither Spencer's or Geller's insults mattered a fig; again, the only thing I cared about was that I got that "the" thing wrong. (And it is important; it turns a slam dunk in-yo-face into something that needs to be argued at great length.)

Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 02:52 AM (nj1bB)

340 321 Ace - agree re: denunciations - she's a Marat/Robespierre/Dzerzhinsky. And on that note, I'm off to the Gaslamp to resume drinking. To hell with Pam and her spectacular chesticles. Good riddance.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 02:52 AM (yK8YH)

341 Nobody is proposing genocide, that's just a weak response cause you can't make a real argument.
Nobody is proposing anything that might work that doesn't include genocide. How do we get to peace from here if we will not even be bothered to learn about the culture we are at war with. You would have it so we are too ignorant to even know how they need to change their beliefs so we can live peacefully. By making no steps toward peace, even perfunctory, you enact and promote the only other possibility, a war of civilizations, that can only end when one side is wiped out. Knowing that makes one a proponent of genocide.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 02:53 AM (GE1+K)

342
Trying to throw up a wall (even a figurative one) in the nuclear age is
like rebooting the Cold War, only an order of magnitude more stupid.



Seriously, that's your plan?

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 02:50 AM
(bxiXv)

And your plan is to reform Islam? That's your plan? Tell me how you plan on doing that?

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:53 AM (GZitp)

343 A real plan is to aggressively fight militant islam, while encouraging non-militants to embrace the decadence of the free market. It worked for Japan and Germany, it can work again.

Posted by: BSR at August 28, 2011 02:54 AM (BH4RQ)

344 Something about this Gellar/Spencer thing has been nagging at me all night, and I couldn't figure out why and then I remembered.

I read one of Ann Coulter's books awhile back, 'Treason'. In it she claimed Joe McCarthy was essentially right about everything. True enough, McCarthy was right about many aspects of Soviet-sponsored communist infiltration in industry and government, but in order for Coulter to completely vindicate her hero, she had to somehow argue for McCarthy's most infamous accusation, that General George Marshall, possibly one of the greatest generals and patriots in our country's history, was a communist sympathizer.

As it happens, the Marshall Plan initially proposed including the Soviet Union as one of the beneficiaries of American aid. Marshall saw conflict ahead, as any sane person would, and his thinking was that this could be a way to somehow forestall or even prevent entirely the coming Cold War (or world-ending nuclear war) by essentially making the Russians partners in the rebuilding of Europe. President Truman killed that part of the plan, but not because he doubted the General's loyalties and love of country.

Eager to justify McCarthy's slander of General Marshall, Coulter seizes on this in her book: according to Coulter, only a communist sympathizer would think of helping the Soviets rebuild and strengthen themselves.

Coulter lost me forever at that point. I watch her sing her little girl love songs to Governor Christie on television purely for the entertainment value, not because I take her seriously. Coulter sells books and earns speaker fees. Good for her. But the truth is Joe McCarthy was an alcoholic deep in his disease, more than a little intimidated when in the General's presence, and knew Marshall despised him as an opportunist.

You see where I'm going with this. Gellar and Spencer have a certain amount of influence on the Right, Spencer especially. He's the go-to guy on all issues pertaining to Islamic extremism. By attacking Perry, Spencer can--at least in a small way--affect the course of a primary campaign and make his cause more important in the scheme of things, make of himself an arbiter of sorts. You saw how he boasted about Perry's people scrubbing certain parts of his website or whatever as a result of this brouhaha. Did you catch Spencer's tone, that note of smug, self-righteous satisfaction? Of course you did.

I'm neither for or against Perry as a primary candidate. He's new to the scene, at least for me, and about all I know of him is that he shot a coyote or a wild dog with the same model of pistol I use as my concealed carry weapon. Even so, I do know any given governor of Texas would emphatically not be a friend of the Jihad. The whole notion is ridiculous.

Posted by: troyriser at August 28, 2011 02:54 AM (YCeSE)

345
Read more, specifically the context of religion
and political parties in Malaysia today. It is a Muslim help line ...
they come out and help those whom they choose, and they frequently do it
during the daytime ... all legal.

Posted by: Arbalest at August 28, 2011 02:47 AM (Wh+YQ)

Well, duh. They want to be an alternative to Christian help, and Malaysia isn't the most Christian-friendly state. Real strong evidence for the War of the Worlds right there.Oh by the way, reading further, you actually see a moderate Muzzie:Influential cleric Mohd Asri Zainul Abidin, however, said yesterday that
Muslims should take care of their own poor instead of accusing
Christians of proselytism when churches helped poor Muslims.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 02:54 AM (8Zpuz)

346 Right, they should call in Hindu's to write the whole of the symposium on Christianity.-Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 02:43 AM

Man, you're dumb. Ever taken a Comparative Religion course? Was each faith taught by an adherent of that faith? What's wrong with Hindus teaching the history of Christianity to Hindu students in Hindustan? Hindus and Christians are not commanded in the foundational texts of their respective faiths to engage in unceasing warfare until the other submits. Islam is the enemy of the West, of every civilization non-Islamic.It's in the Koran! As I mentioned above, since the time of Mohammed, there have been two brief windows of time in which muslims were not attacking Christian Civilization- why would we charge muslims with educating Christian children on Islam?

Tell me, Rick Perry. Why?

Posted by: november1981 at August 28, 2011 02:55 AM (3TGfa)

347 I am just disgusted by this. It's just a game of Let's Make Up Some Red Meat for our latest burst of blog traffic.

Bingo. Whatever would Pam do with her life if there weren't fresh outrages to be outraged by?

I can remember years ago when Debbie Schlussel was linked to a lot too because she slammed the right people.Then people started noticing what a fucking loon she is. Seems to me that Pamcakes is headed down that same path. She's done quite well for herself in the "Islam is taking over America" racket, why let go now?

The sad thing to me is, these spurious accusations have the same effect as the constant accusations of racism from the left - people stop paying attention. Which is a problem, because there really is something to watch out for.

Posted by: radar at August 28, 2011 02:55 AM (VEc75)

348 This guy at AboveTopSecret has a plan:

"Its time for Mankind to leave this planet, i mean serious..we all have to die..we are not worth it to live."

...actually that was his reply to a video from a chicken factory but this issue probably almost as serious!

Posted by: WeekendAtBernankes at August 28, 2011 02:56 AM (KJMY9)

349 @337 snark - Reagan's wit (not mine, maybe you should study how its done). ass.

Posted by: meleager at August 28, 2011 02:56 AM (iSQB2)

350 And your plan is to reform Islam? That's your plan? Tell me how you plan on doing that?

For one we can work with the Muslims who honestly want reform instead of stabbing them in the back to pass some stupid political purity test.

Posted by: Lauren at August 28, 2011 02:56 AM (ghJ2e)

351 And your plan is to reform Islam? That's your plan? Tell me how you plan on doing that?

I have no idea. I don't know enough about their faith to even venture a guess. I wasn't taught very much about Islam when I went through school. I think that is a good place to start.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 02:57 AM (GE1+K)

352 Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith writes at #334:

And you keep asking for someone else's plan, and we keep telling you -
WE HAVE TO FIX THE PROBLEM, and the problem is that the core of the
faith is designed to kill, conquer, and resist reform.





Until you fix THAT, you are just prolonging the conflict. And it would
seem that if there are Muslims who are sick of that shit, and there are,
whether they're reformers or just scared of their fellows, getting them
on board with fixing the problem would seem to be a good first step.

----------------------
My reply:

How do you propose to change the "core" of a religion some 14 centuries in age and followed by some two billion people?

Dream on, dreamer. You sound liberal.

While you are working on your "project" to "change" the "core" of Islam, I will go with "lowandslow's" approach, until you come up with a more effective plan.

Posted by: man_in_tx at August 28, 2011 02:57 AM (mtzAh)

353 322 - Heh. My point exactly +1. Now I'm off to debauch, for reals.

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at August 28, 2011 02:57 AM (yK8YH)

354 ok, this is a more detailed blog war than I can follow: My question is why is any religion taught in public schools, I thought that was a no-no.

Secondly, why do we have public schools in the first place?

Just end that and we can save the public alot of tax dollars and a lot of headaches.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at August 28, 2011 02:58 AM (4nfy2)

355 #215, Balrog, I'll have to argue that one. Norwich Master's in Military History Class of '12 here. One thesis away from finishing.

Now to do some Google Images to see Atlas's Juggs.

Posted by: SGT Dan at August 28, 2011 02:59 AM (8Tq4X)

356 For one we can work with the Muslims who honestly
want reform instead of stabbing them in the back to pass some stupid
political purity test.


Posted by: Lauren at August 28, 2011 02:56 AM (ghJ2e)

Who are these Muslims that want to reform it? Whatever reform means, because as far as I can tell most of these radical Muslims are pretty much following the Koran and Haddiths to the letter. You're not talking reform, you're talking about inventing a new religion out of the current one. I don't see it happening.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:59 AM (GZitp)

357 Ever taken a Comparative Religion course? Was each faith taught by an adherent of that faith?

Answer no. Not a requirement for my diploma or degree. But, there is a big difference between taking comparative religion, and, holding a one day symposium for teachers who will teach comparative religion. In the latter, a "Primary source" would be more than beneficial.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 02:59 AM (GE1+K)

358 331 I was asking a question. It was not rhetorical. How do you fight something that is literally willing to blow up thier families to either convert you, enslave you, or kill you?
Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 02:50 AM (wY55N)

First step: are all 1.x billion Muslims in that group?

Obviously not, or we'd all be dead.

Second step: what's the difference between those in that group and those not in that group? Note there may be more than one answer.

Third step: How many people in the second group are willing to permanently forego the principles that the first group follow? This part gets ugly, because it is true that not only is violence encoded in the faith, so is resistance to reform.

BUT there are multiple different sects of Islam. We already have "reforms," just not many yet that lead to peaceful neighbors. But saying "reform is impossible" is clearly bullshit, because individuals and groups have reformed repeatedly.

It would be more accurate to say Islam is *more resistant* to reform than other religions.

But already we're heading toward an answer. It may not be pretty, but it is, I believe, *possible*. We may end up with McIslam, but I'm okay with that over the current mad bunch. And that process will also be ugly, slow, and stuttering.

But my process doesn't aim for permanent war, which in this age is unsurvivable.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:00 AM (bxiXv)

359 354 ok, this is a more detailed blog war than I can follow: My question is why is any religion taught in public schools, I thought that was a no-no.Secondly, why do we have public schools in the first place?Just end that and we can save the public alot of tax dollars and a lot of headaches.
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at August 28, 2011 02:58 AM (4nfy2)
It sort of falls under "world history." At least that's what I remember my 6th grade social studies being about. I don't even think we actually spent a month on it.

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 03:01 AM (GULKT)

360 Who matters in any movement/religion are the leaders, not the average joes, with whom you seem so enamored.
You can't get away with this deliberate obfuscation. Obviously you could make an argument that Hitler, not necessarily the broke and disaffected German people, mattered the most in the genesis of World War II, but who the hell are these jihadist "leaders" leading? Certainly not the average joe. If you looked at the response that Pakistani civilians have towards the Taliban and their murder-by-night and stoning you'd see that.
Which
of your two options do you think Imams and Mullahs teach in the
majority of mosques in this country (or around the world)....?To ask the question is to answer it.
To ask the question is to answer it with the option that lends credence to your conspiracist Muzziephobia? No, I'm not entirely convinced.

That
Islam has internal divisions (the Shi'i/Sunni being the most obvious)
in no way obviates the fact that adherents of ALL major sects of Islam
consider themselves superior (with all that entails) to the infidels.

Actually if you read some of Zarqawi's letters, he proposes Shi'ites are lower than Western infidels.
The current President of Turkey, Erdogan, is on record as saying: "The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers."http://tinyurl.com/3e3l72h

Posted by: man_in_tx at August 28, 2011 02:50 AM (mtzAh)
Good for him. Bring it the hell on.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 03:01 AM (8Zpuz)

361 349
I know the incident, I really was hoping it was snark.

Tho even if someone thought that line was serious it wouldn't be the dumbest thing said in this thread.

Apologies.

Posted by: BSR at August 28, 2011 03:01 AM (BH4RQ)

362 Well, duh. They want to be an alternative to Christian help, and Malaysia isn't the most Christian-friendly state. Real strong evidence for the War of the Worlds right there.
You carefully neglect various legislative efforts in Malaysia ... similar ones by any other religion in Malayasia are inconceivable. Then there's the legality of conversion ... can't convert FROM Islam there.
The moderate Muslim ... perhaps, or politically astute. No need to push things now. BTW, are you aware of where the kingdom of Srivijaya was located, and how it came to conveert from Hinduism to Islam?
I note that you avoid responding to my "no-go zones in France and Sweden ,,, for Frenchmen and Swedes". Looks like strong evidence.

Posted by: Arbalest at August 28, 2011 03:03 AM (Wh+YQ)

363 Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 02:52 AM (nj1bB)

Don't worry Ace, I know you can stand up to this stuff.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 03:03 AM (8Zpuz)

364 I feel bad Ace. Youmissed out onMovie Saturday for this nonsense.
Sure, we got an ultra long post.But it's just not the same as an Ace Movie Review (for a movie I'll never even entertain watching).
I feel cheated.
Sort of like Pam Geller when she realized her bolt-ons didn't impress you enough to get some hot linking action.

Posted by: garrett at August 28, 2011 03:04 AM (fugty)

365 How do you propose to change the "core" of a religion some 14 centuries in age and followed by some two billion people? Dream on, dreamer. You sound liberal.

Well, Christianity* has had more than a few modifications to its core beliefs. And it is several centuries older.

(*Not burning heretics for 300 years)

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 03:04 AM (GE1+K)

366 Actually, for the dick who keeps bringing it up, ALL the local NYC newscasters have been remarkably sober when talking about this storm.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 03:04 AM (9CM5J)

367 you're talking about inventing a new religion out of the current one. I don't see it happening.
The Reformed Islamic Church of North America who doesnt want to chop your head is looking for converts.....

Posted by: meleager at August 28, 2011 03:04 AM (iSQB2)

368 The Shinto devotion to the Emperor was several centuries older than islam, and it was changed and moderated, first by defeating them militarily then by encouraging them to use all the energy for something positive. Namely, building nonsensical inventions, cars, and overly complicated toilets.

Posted by: BSR at August 28, 2011 03:05 AM (BH4RQ)

369 Who are these Muslims that want to reform it? Whatever reform means,
because as far as I can tell most of these radical Muslims are pretty
much following the Koran and Haddiths to the letter. You're not talking
reform, you're talking about inventing a new religion out of the current
one. I don't see it happening.

The Ishmailis, for one. As mentioned in Ace's post, there are Muslims who wish to interpret the Koran figuratively.

Posted by: Lauren at August 28, 2011 03:07 AM (ghJ2e)

370 Dream on, dreamer. You sound liberal.

While you are working on your "project" to "change" the "core" of Islam, I will go with "lowandslow's" approach, until you come up with a more effective plan.

Posted by: man_in_tx at August 28, 2011 02:57 AM (mtzAh)

And you sound like a hyperventilating purity freak hiding in his mom's basement, but let's not stoop to insults. Oh, wait, that's where you started. NEVER MIND.

lowandslow's "plan" is to surrender half the planet to an expansionist, aggressive, bloody-minded faith that already has nuclear weapons.

WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG!

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:07 AM (bxiXv)

371 Coulter lost me forever at that point. I watch her sing her little girl
love songs to Governor Christie on television purely for the
entertainment value, not because I take her seriously. Coulter sells
books and earns speaker fees. Good for her. But the truth is Joe
McCarthy was an alcoholic deep in his disease, more than a little
intimidated when in the General's presence, and knew Marshall despised
him as an opportunist.Posted by: troyriser at August 28, 2011 02:54 AM (YCeSE)



I find this very salient to the drive-the-Muzzies-out crowd. A lot of them tend to justify McCarthy, probably for the same reasons as Coulter.

At some point you just have to call a spade a spade.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 03:07 AM (8Zpuz)

372 My question is why is any religion taught in public schools, I thought that was a no-no.-guy fawkes

Perry should answer this. Why did the Aga Khan recieve this special dispensation? Of all religions to be taught, why Islam?

It seems the more they bomb us, the more we need to reach out to them. The worse they act, the more rewards they receive. It's almost a Jizya- the punitive tax paid solely by infidels living in muslim societies. Or tribute almost.

The sick hypocrisy is displayed best at Ground Zero. Where the muslims got special permission and assistance to build a mosque at a site they destroyed- yet an Orthodox church that was actually destroyed in that same attack is denied a permit to rebuild.



Posted by: november1981 at August 28, 2011 03:07 AM (3TGfa)

373 "But my process doesn't aim for permanent war, which in this age is unsurvivable."

Islam has been at war with everyone else since it's inception.
Does not matter if you want a war or not. You have one now. You just have not accepted it yet.
"Convert to Islam, and then you will be safe, for if you don't, you should know that I have come to you with an army of men that love death, as you love life." Caliph Abu Bakr, Mohammed's Successor
This is mainstream islam. Do what you will. It is your life afterall.

Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 03:08 AM (wY55N)

374 This is mainstream islam. Do what you will. It is your life afterall.


So you are in the
Let them have half the planet so they can become powerful and kill us all

or the

Lets get that final solution moving

Which one?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 03:10 AM (GE1+K)

375 #215, Balrog
#355SGT Dan

Once nics at StrategyPage you have, then training completed have you will ....

Posted by: Yodel at August 28, 2011 03:10 AM (Wh+YQ)

376 The Ishmailis, for one. As mentioned in Ace's post,
there are Muslims who wish to interpret the Koran figuratively.

Posted by: Lauren at August 28, 2011 03:07 AM (ghJ2e)

That would be nice but it's not really what's happening in Islam is it? It's going just the opposite way for the past fifty years, it's the fundamentalist that have taken it over. Just hoping it will change isn't much of a plan.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:10 AM (GZitp)

377 In the latter, a "Primary source" would be more than beneficial. -Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 02:59 AM

So, we can only have classes on Communism taught by actual believing Communists?


Posted by: november1981 at August 28, 2011 03:11 AM (3TGfa)

378 Teaching about what a religion believes is not the same as teaching religion. Is this a difficult point to grasp. I cant imagine it is.

Quick! Someone look into what Alaska's history books said about Islam circa 2008. I'm pretty sure it wasnt "Kill em all and let Allah sort em out" but I could be wrong.

Posted by: BSR at August 28, 2011 03:11 AM (BH4RQ)

379 lowandslow's "plan" is to surrender half the planet
to an expansionist, aggressive, bloody-minded faith that already has
nuclear weapons.



WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG!

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:07 AM
(bxiXv)

Surrender it? How do have any control of it now?

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:12 AM (GZitp)

380 I am not Mormon or Mnemonite or Amish but even I see that killing is wrong.
The fact is extermination is not the answer.
It isa scalpel situation, a culture situation, a situation that requires precision cutting/culling and it requires influence. That last one we do not have with a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure in the White House.
Much like the liberals that have taken over academia there does exist in the middle east a lot of propoganda machines that are either regime-driven or regime-tolerated. The economic situation there for the "common" man/woman is dire in places. Wide swaths of the youth have been co-opted, women doubly so to engender and continue either regime or warlord power.
Hell the culture is even sexually corrupted, with pedophelia, rape, underage arranged marriage ( really, really underage ) and leading all this, directing the daily propganda and culture farce is the mullahs ( oh yeah, in certain areas, just want to make that clear )
Look, obviously it is a world-wide problem and has been so for centuries, 12 or 14 take your pick. I am not going to lay any blame on the knights templar, the turks ( well yes, I am the turks ) or anyone in this day and age for the sins of the past, but something has to be done, but not the neutron bomb.
The arabs that co-opted the middle east in the name of Islam have brought a lot of pain into the world. They practice abominable rites in marriage, in justice, and still practice the enlslavement of people of color, and white people when they get the chance. It is their culture, their self-proclaimed destiny to do so.
I am not gonna get all Lame Cherry on you and talk about the Rothchilds leading Europe and the Russian influence on world policy, but as soon as they saw the weakness in Obama they seized the opportunity to put a lot of things into motion, and we get Arab Springs and Iran with the bomb and Israel on the verge of destruction. But Geraldo Rivera ( good old Jerry Rivers ) is bare-chested in the rain. Thanks Fox.
Ok back to it.We have to install secular governments and let the retarded societies , the ones stuck in the 8th century, to evolve into free markets and let the people discover their own rights. Have to stop the stonings, the pedophelia, the discrimination against black people, the brown people of the far east, ofwhite people and women.
I lay all the centuries of barbarism squarely on the Arabs, they taught the Africans and the Europeans how to be slave traders, and the Arabs still even practice that, and keepa billion people living in the 8th century simply because it is easier for them to do that than to compete in a free society.
Much as we think about it, the bomb is still not the answer, the price to our souls too great, here and in heaven.

Posted by: Tom_Ohio at August 28, 2011 03:12 AM (7U2lm)

381 Does not matter if you want a war or not. You have one now. You just have not accepted it yet.

Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 03:08 AM (wY55N)

It's like you people don't even listen to a fucking word I say.

Sorry, strike the "it's like" part.

As I said before, file that under "shit I already know." Now, do you have a fucking answer other than permanent warfare for fucking ever or genocide?

Because that's THEIR wish-list, bucko. And if it's your wish-list too, what's the difference other than rhetoric?

Do you have another plan?

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:12 AM (bxiXv)

382 Ace , you need to make peace wiff Pammie and her sweater puppies.
Actually break bread and reconcile.
Don't be such a cad.
Apologize to her for getting off on the wrong foot.
Not everyone understands and/or appreciates your humour.
Pammie included.
But she could learn to like you real quick like. You have that way about you.
You both have a lot in common and a future understanding and alliance is in order.
Ace... send her some flowers, dammit.
It's all good.

peace out

Posted by: Mikey at August 28, 2011 03:13 AM (db4pz)

383 @368 I would not overdo the "kicked their butt, permanently changed their culture" bit.

It's only been sixty years, and there are still quite a few alive today in Germany and Japan who recall the war, or at least the immediate postwar, pretty vividly.

Check back in after another forty years or so, and we might find something very different. Look at Germany: Mashed flat in the 17th century, but spent most of the 18th and 19th centuries doing the grand tour of Europe.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 03:13 AM (9CM5J)

384 Just hoping it will change isn't much of a plan.

When did I say we were going to do nothing but hope? I'm saying that we should actively support the reformers. I'm saying that we directly challenge mainstream Islam. Stop saying that "Islam is a religion of peace" and actively work to make it match the rhetoric.

Posted by: Lauren at August 28, 2011 03:13 AM (ghJ2e)

385 You tell me Mike. What would you do with a enemy like this. Where are all those moderate muslim fighting against the terrorists? Where were the moderates stopping the latest attacks in Israel? Surely with 1.5 billion of em, could not 40 or 50 have prevented those attacks?

Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 03:14 AM (wY55N)

386 You carefully neglect various
legislative efforts in Malaysia ... similar ones by any other religion
in Malayasia are inconceivable. Then there's the legality of conversion
... can't convert FROM Islam there.As I said, this is not surprising for Malaysia. That would be like shock at learning China attempted to stamp out Tibetan Buddhists.

The moderate Muslim ... perhaps, or politically
astute. No need to push things now.
Ascribing shadowy motives to public figures is how Christians are attacked as dangerous fundamentalists. But hey, you could be right.

BTW, are you aware of where the
kingdom of Srivijaya was located, and how it came to conveert from
Hinduism to Islam?
I note that you avoid responding to my "no-go zones in
France and Sweden ,,, for Frenchmen and Swedes". Looks like strong
evidence.

Posted by: Arbalest at August 28, 2011 03:03 AM (Wh+YQ)
It is strong evidence indeed, of uncivilized bigots being coddled by Western authorities. Not of a hive mind or a push by 1.5 billion Muslims to establish a global caliphate.And no I have not heard of Srivijaya.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 03:14 AM (8Zpuz)

387 Why did the Aga Khan recieve this special dispensation?
Understand this about Islam: its all aboutdisposition. Its not that their martyrs are more holy, or their cause is just, it that the reaver will be favored by God for bringing glory to allah (piss be upon him). The Aga Khan can BUY his way to heaven, and the jehadis give him a pass (if he pays up).

Posted by: meleager at August 28, 2011 03:16 AM (iSQB2)

388 385
You tell me Mike. What would you do with a enemy like this. Where are
all those moderate muslim fighting against the terrorists? Where were
the moderates stopping the latest attacks in Israel? Surely with 1.5
billion of em, could not 40 or 50 have prevented those attacks?

Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 03:14 AM (wY55N)

You might as well ask how a hundred probable Christians watched a piece of shit street thug murder Kitty Genovese.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 03:16 AM (8Zpuz)

389 355
#215, Balrog, I'll have to argue that one. Norwich Master's in Military
History Class of '12 here. One thesis away from finishing.

Posted by: SGT Dan at August 28, 2011 02:59 AM (8Tq4X)

How do you like it? I'm at AMU, and I've been reasonably happy with it.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 03:18 AM (9CM5J)

390 Surrender it? How do have any control of it now?

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:12 AM (GZitp)

Seriously, that's your response? Trying to parse your way out of a corner?

Do you have a plan to address THE PROBLEM? Not the symptom, the fucking cause.

Because if not, then you are just accepting permanent bloody war and likely nuclear holocaust.

That's not a plan, that's just nuts.

Not to mention that you have to convince everyone else in the West to go along with your plan, over that obvious objection as well as the others stated here.

It's the single-issue cancer again, you keep assuming you can do things affecting the whole world whether or not anyone else wants to go along with you. Unless you have some magic plan to do it all by yourself, you're just pissing into the wind.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:18 AM (bxiXv)

391 So, we can only have classes on Communism taught by actual believing Communists?
Would I be all up in arms if believing communists came to a symposium about communism to present their point of view to educators? No.

I'm not a book burner. Nor am I a keep people silenced type. And I don't see tremendous harm in giving teachers access to those who actually believe the things they are going to be teaching about.

If they can't divine truth from white paint, or, they are predisposed to anti-American ideals, that fault lies with the teachers and that should be fixed. And not by placing blinders on the scholarly process.

That's what the left does to indoctrinate.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 03:18 AM (GE1+K)

392 These Pamela people are dreary and tedious.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 03:20 AM (9CM5J)

393 Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:18 AM
(bxiXv)

I don't understand your thinking, I really don't. My plan is to remove Islam from the western world. How is that leading to a permanent war and possible nuclear holocaust?

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:21 AM (GZitp)

394 Societyis2Blame mentions Robespierre.

This is breaking the Godel rule (Robespierre was the Hitler of the Reign of Terror), but I think that's right.

In any system, especially any insurgent system, there is a strong tendency, seen again and again, for demagogues to increase their position and influence by making escalating claims of treason and subversion.

For a while it works. Unfortunately, for a great while it often works.

And it's not just Geller. There is always a segment which wishes to advance its preferences (or simply call attention to itself and thereby increase power) by accusing others of subversion, treason, and the like.

Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 03:22 AM (nj1bB)

395 Surely with 1.5 billion of em, could not 40 or 50 have prevented those attacks?
Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 03:14 AM (wY55N)

Hell, you can't even get Democrats to do that, and most of them aren't even Muslims.

A large percentage of the Muslims I've personally know are scared of other Muslims. I am not kidding, it is a shitty way to live, but especially when you're in Egypt or Syria not that many people are willing to be the nail that stands up.

Especially since they're surrounded by propaganda and inured to fatalism.

*BUT* that fear is a handle, that wise people can use to exert leverage.

Will it work? Hell, I don't know, but sure as hell it will work better than trying to start a movement to deport every Muslim from the West and hope they don't lob anything at us from Pakistan or Iran in the next infinity.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:22 AM (bxiXv)

396 Well, sorry Morons, the Juggies have convinced me.. um.. something..

So, Now is the time for Juggies on TRAMPOLINES!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgZpXOiDF-g

Posted by: JarvisW at August 28, 2011 03:22 AM (8yPsP)

397 Not of a hive mind or a push by 1.5 billion Muslims to establish a global caliphate.
Why do you diss the umma?

Posted by: meleager at August 28, 2011 03:23 AM (iSQB2)

398 Got it. 1.5 billion bystandards sit around while about 10% of thier population rape, murder, and enslave thier way to islamic supremecy. Good answer.

Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 03:24 AM (wY55N)

399 I don't understand your thinking, I really don't. My plan is to remove Islam from the western world. How is that leading to a permanent war and possible nuclear holocaust?
Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:21 AM (GZitp)

Well lets take this slowly. Do you believe that Islam is (and has been) expansionist, aggressive, and is designed to prompt its followers to seek dominion over the world and the conversion or submission of all its inhabitants?

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:24 AM (bxiXv)

400 My plan is to remove Islam from the western world. How is that leading to a permanent war and possible nuclear holocaust?

Because you are not thinking past the first step.

Do you think that all the displaced Muslims will be happy with America after they're sent to Whereverstan? Do you think they will suddenly abandon their quest to expand Dar-al Islam?

Posted by: Lauren at August 28, 2011 03:24 AM (ghJ2e)

401 You tell me Mike. What would you do with a enemy like this. Where are
all those moderate muslim fighting against the terrorists? Where were
the moderates stopping the latest attacks in Israel? Surely with 1.5
billion of em, could not 40 or 50 have prevented those attacks?


Well my solution for peace starts by learning a little about their beliefs, and at least knowing how they would have to change in order for peace to exist.

I am no proponent of peace at all costs. But nor am I going to suggest we should remain willfully ignorant of a large culture at odds with us. To those that will not live in peace, well they are a problem that needs to be met on the battlefield. But I am also suggesting that once the most violent and extreme elements are met in this manner, the remaining majority will be open to modification in their beliefs and peace with the West.


Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 03:25 AM (GE1+K)

402 P.S. If anyone is looking for a another nice long read, the Michael Lewis article on Germany in Vanity Fair is worth a look. It's not quite up to ace's standards-at only 17 pages, but it will do.

I wish somebody else (not the tools at Vanity Smear) could have published it, but that's where it is.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 03:26 AM (9CM5J)

403 One thing that you can do is to get the CIA back on what they are actually supposed to do - recruit foreign agents and divine humint from them. Then give them the policy latitude to actually do something with the information they obtain.

One of the reasons we didn't see 9/11 coming, in the long view, was because we knew there was a hotbed of Islamic radicalism that was giving birth to al-Qaeda, and we straight up ignored it. The CIA couldn't even get someone to investigate common Londonistan literature that called for blatant war against the West. When we had information, policymakers in Washington were too timid and blind to let the right people pull the triggers.

A pretty good summary of our failings in that regard is Robert Baer's See No Evil. The guy is a pretty out-and-out liberal but his book is very instructive (he was a CIA officer in the Middle East for about 10-15 years).

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 03:26 AM (8Zpuz)

404 I don't understand your thinking, I really don't. My plan is to remove Islam from the western world. How is that leading to a permanent war and possible nuclear holocaust?
Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:21 AM (GZitp)
You realize you are talking about an aggressive expansionist ideology that separates the world into an Us vs. Them view and the goal is not to keep away from the other but to conquer it. And you wonder how your idea won't end up in a war or nuclear holocaust?

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 03:26 AM (GULKT)

405 Part of the problem with Islam as I see it, is the factions most prone to violence, hold a more placid majority hostage.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 03:26 AM (GE1+K)

406 Ace,

in my comment above where I said this was a dumb thread, I was really focusing on the thread, not the post at the top. I pretty much get what you are doing. It always frosts me when someone who should nominally be in the same logistical situation as me and also shares what should be a similar philosophy, nevertheless decides to pick a fight over something really, really unimportant in the larger context.

Some people will do anything to make sure they look like the smartest person in the room, even if it means set fire to everyone else in the room.

It's one thing that keeps introverts introverted. They don't trust anyone.

Posted by: K~Bob at August 28, 2011 03:26 AM (9b6FB)

407 @393 Ethnic cleansing, no? Yeah, that always works out.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 03:27 AM (9CM5J)

408 I don't understand your thinking, I really don't. My plan is to
remove Islam from the western world. How is that leading to a permanent
war and possible nuclear holocaust?

Um OK.
Ever think they might at some point might want the rest of the world, just like they want Poland now?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 03:27 AM (GE1+K)

409 398
Got it. 1.5 billion bystandards sit around while about 10% of thier
population rape, murder, and enslave thier way to islamic supremecy.
Good answer.

Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 03:24 AM (wY55N)

It is the correct answer to such inane rhetorical questions as "why didn't 40 or 50 people prevent [insert terrorist attack]?"Combatting terrorism requires professionals, not 40 or 50 random Muslims you blame off the street. Hey, how come no self-respecting American blew the whistle on McVeigh before he killed 400 with his truck bomb?

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 03:28 AM (8Zpuz)

410 Well lets take this slowly. Do you believe that
Islam is (and has been) expansionist, aggressive, and is designed to
prompt its followers to seek dominion over the world and the conversion
or submission of all its inhabitants?

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:24 AM
(bxiXv)

Yes it is but not necessarily the way you think they want to do it. If we keep allowing Islam to spread under the name of diversity you're helping them fulfill their beliefs. Right now the Muslim world can't militarily expand nor do they wish to and preventing Muslims further expansion into the west doesn't change that.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:29 AM (GZitp)

411 >>>Perry should answer this. Why did the Aga Khan recieve this special dispensation? Of all religions to be taught, why Islam?

I am not intending to be an asshole here: But have you ever taken history?

It seems like you do not know that the chapters always have a briefing on the culture and *religion* of the players in that chapter.

This was apparently taught as part of world history -- and as much as you might not like it, Islam is part of world history.

You do not seem to understand the difference between a textbook of history telling you what the Jews, or Christians, or Buddhists, or Muslims, or Calvinists, or Huegenots believed and an actual religious instruction of the type you might get at Sunday school.

You, like Geller, seem perplexed.

I do not understand: Even if you just got through tenth grade of high school, you would have had a course on World History, and you would have seen the typical culture/religion description of a player.

You honestly seem perplexed. Are you perplexed, or are you holding out hope that Geller's claims hold water?

I don't know what the hell to say to this. I do not want to play the education card but this is something you really should have experienced for yourslef in 10th grade World History.

You seem mystified and baffled that in a history course or current affairs course the topic of Islam would be relevant and facts about it therefore taught.

And you don't seem to understand that quickly noting the tenets of a relgiion relevant to a war -- for example "The Huegenots were French Protestants, who had rejected the Catholic Church, and therefore fought numerous wars of rebellion against Catholic France" -- is not the same as Sunday School or a mosque.

Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 03:30 AM (nj1bB)

412 Right now the Muslim world can't militarily expand nor do they wish to

I'm sorry. I didn't know you were from Mirror Mirror Earth.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 03:31 AM (GE1+K)

413 This is breaking the Godel rule (Robespierre was the Hitler of the Reign of Terror), but I think that's right.





In any system, especially any insurgent system, there is a strong
tendency, seen again and again, for demagogues to increase their
position and influence by making escalating claims of treason and
subversion.





For a while it works. Unfortunately, for a great while it often works.





And it's not just Geller. There is always a segment which wishes to
advance its preferences (or simply call attention to itself and thereby
increase power) by accusing others of subversion, treason, and the like.







Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 03:22 AM (nj1bB)

Isn't that Godwin, Ace? Or are you thinking of something different?I've noticed this kind of stuff popping up in conservatives from time to time, especially when McCarthy or FDR comes up. One of the most risible aspects of the purists is that they detest pretty much every domestic program of FDR's with the exception of the Japanese-American detainment camps.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 03:31 AM (8Zpuz)

414 Mike have you read Mein Kampf? In retrospect did you belive hitler meant what he wrote? All you need to do learn about islam is read the qur'ran. It lays out the program pretty simple. It is the literal word of god as dictated by mo.

Quran-9:29, Fight those who believe neither in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth (Islam), even if they are of the People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 03:32 AM (wY55N)

415 Sufism is the best cure for Islamtardation.

Posted by: Ellipsis Lacuna at August 28, 2011 03:33 AM (rOZoa)

416 Right now the Muslim world can't
militarily expand nor do they wish to and preventing Muslims further
expansion into the west doesn't change that.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:29 AM (GZitp)
Oh really. Maybe you should tell that to the guy who was asking me if I knew about the global-caliphate-world-domination plan currently favored by the Muslim world.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 03:33 AM (8Zpuz)

417 You realize you are talking about an aggressive
expansionist ideology that separates the world into an Us vs. Them view
and the goal is not to keep away from the other but to conquer it. And
you wonder how your idea won't end up in a war or nuclear holocaust?

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 03:26 AM (GULKT)

How is preventing Islamic expansion an aggressive expansionist ideology? That doesn't even make any sense.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:33 AM (GZitp)

418 Ascribing shadowy motives to public figures is how Christians are attacked as dangerous fundamentalists.
True, but somewhat tangential ...
But hey, you could be right
Malaysia is significantly Muslim, but there are other large religious mnorities. and there seems to be a bit of an ethnic link: Malays-Muslim, Indians-Hindu, Chinese-Confucian/Taoist/...and this suggests significant potential for violence if things are pushed too hard.
It is strong evidence indeed, of uncivilized bigots being coddled by Western authorities. Not of a hive mind or ...
Judging by the way Muslims respond to their clerics, "hive mind" seems appropriate. Perhaps all 1.5 billion Muslims do not want to conquer the world, but the clerics who take the Koran at face value (just about all of them), are in fact directed to do so ...
Srivijaya: a kingdom spanning the Malay Peninsula, Sumatra and various other islands. Very Short Version: Lots of Hindus and Buddhists. A muslim married into the royal family ... eventually he or his descendants took over and started conversions ... of the people. Similar stories in some neighboring kingdoms.
And then there's the Islamic conquest of North Africa, ending in Spain, Iran, Afghanistan culmnating in a shot at India ... almost won. They want the world, or most of it ... Africa ... look up the Arabic word abeed ...

Posted by: Yodel at August 28, 2011 03:34 AM (Wh+YQ)

419 It lays out the program pretty simple. It is the literal word of god as dictated by mo.

Yes, we all agree. None of us are claiming any different.

Posted by: Lauren at August 28, 2011 03:34 AM (ghJ2e)

420 I am sorry if that was snotty, november.

Maybe you only meant why was there a special seminar for teachers on Islam?

1, it's relevant. The first discussions about the course (which occurred later) were taken in 2002, when we were still fresh from 9/11, and Bush was promoting his idea of outreach to moderates.

2, I assume The Aga Khan paid for it through his foundation, so, free.

3, the stated purpose was to increase academic understanding. Supposedly Westerners didn't understand Islam when they taught about it, and they were now suddenly teaching it a lot (this being post 9/11), and this was to better equip them.

No matter what Geller says: It was an *academic* course for teachers. It was not religious instruction.



Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 03:35 AM (nj1bB)

421 "The Commerzbank Tower is 53 stories high and unusually shaped: it looks
like a giant throne. The top of the building, the arms of the throne,
looks more decorative than useful. The interesting thing, said a friend,
who visited often, was a room at the top, peering down over Frankfurt.
It was a men’s bathroom. Commerzbank executives had taken him up to the
top to show him how, in full view of the world below, he could urinate
on Deutsche Bank. And if he sat in the stall with the door open …"

This sounds like rivalry almost as bitter as a blog feud.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 03:35 AM (9CM5J)

422 How is preventing Islamic expansion an aggressive expansionist ideology? That doesn't even make any sense.


Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:33 AM (GZitp)
He is talking about Islam being the aggressive expansionist ideology, great scott.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 03:36 AM (8Zpuz)

423 And it's not just Geller. There is always a segment which wishes to advance its preferences (or simply call attention to itself and thereby increase power) by accusing others of subversion, treason, and the like. Ace, with all due respect to a fellow moron; if she's wrong, no harm, no foul.And I resenther implicationstoo - I'm not a NYorker, I dont give a fuck about culture. But it is war.If she right..then what... We must advance our preferences - morons and all - its 1000% better than the alternative. Your just as much a segment as anyone else.

Posted by: meleager at August 28, 2011 03:36 AM (iSQB2)

424 Mike have you read Mein Kampf? In retrospect did you belive hitler meant
what he wrote? All you need to do learn about islam is read the
qur'ran. It lays out the program pretty simple. It is the literal word
of god as dictated by mo.

Yes I have. Great Idea asshole. Let's go back and kill all the Germans because one of them wrote a book. Yes I believe that is what Hitler believed. I certainly believe what is in the Koran is what Muhammad believed. I don't believe that every German in the 30's and 40's wanted to rule Europe and kill every Jew in existence, though a great many, though still only a small minority did. Nor do I believe that every Muslim wants to destroy the West.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 03:37 AM (GE1+K)

425 Oh really. Maybe you should tell
that to the guy who was asking me if I knew about the
global-caliphate-world-domination plan currently favored by the Muslim
world.


Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011
03:33 AM (8Zpuz)

Is there a time table in the Koran for this? No, doesn't mean it's not Islam's ultimate goal.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:37 AM (GZitp)

426 How is preventing Islamic expansion an aggressive expansionist ideology? That doesn't even make any sense.

Because you aren't preventing Islamic expansion. You aren't solving anything. At best, you're kicking the can down the road a bit, while escalating the battle.

What do you think will happen when the US starts issuing eviction slips? Do you think that Pakistan is going to be happy with this turn of events? Do you think that an ideology built on war will take kindly to this slap in the face?

Posted by: Lauren at August 28, 2011 03:37 AM (ghJ2e)

427 How is preventing Islamic expansion an aggressive expansionist ideology? That doesn't even make any sense.
Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:33 AM (GZitp)
Good God you really are fucking retarded. I was talking about Islam being an aggressive expansionist ideology.

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 03:38 AM (GULKT)

428 Social Inertia. Afraid to do anything. Chamberlin and Daladier were afraid of war so much that they did nothing but appease hitler until it was too late.
Social Inertia is the same thing that it will take not one, not two, but at least three U.S. cities to be reduced to radioactive cinders before everyone realises that islam is at war with us.

Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 03:39 AM (wY55N)

429 Yes it is but not necessarily the way you think they want to do it. If we keep allowing Islam to spread under the name of diversity you're helping them fulfill their beliefs. Right now the Muslim world can't militarily expand nor do they wish to and preventing Muslims further expansion into the west doesn't change that.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:29 AM (GZitp)

...

So did Spock have a beard?

...

Of course we all know that the expansion is not solely military, it isn't even mainly military, you only claim I believe that because just like everything else, you assume you know every fucking thing already and don't bother to ask.

But do you seriously think that if, magically, all the Muslims were forcibly exported to the Middle East, North Africa and Asia, they would all just settle down and play Parcheesi with each other? Especially since they have nuclear weapons?

Or do you think maybe they would pick bordering countries and start sneaking in or trying to invade them one by one? Start with countries nobody likes anyway. Then weaker countries.

What do you do now? They have nukes.

Sure, there would be some infighting, they wouldn't all cooperate with each other, never do.

Maybe they'd just repeat the Barbary period, except this time it would be more than a million Westerners they'd take as slaves.

What would you do then?

Do we have a war, or not?

Remember, they have nukes.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:39 AM (bxiXv)

430
and this suggests
significant potential for violence if things are pushed too hard.

The possibility is there.
Perhaps all 1.5 billion Muslims do not want to conquer the world, but
the clerics who take the Koran at face value (just about all of them),
are in fact directed to do so ...
Uh, okay. I'll just take your word for it then?
Srivijaya: a kingdom spanning the Malay
Peninsula, Sumatra and various other islands. Very Short Version: Lots
of Hindus and Buddhists. A muslim married into the royal family ...
eventually he or his descendants took over and started conversions ...
of the people. Similar stories in some neighboring kingdoms.
Posted by: Yodel at August 28, 2011 03:34 AM (Wh+YQ)

There is also a shorter, and significantly more violent story, about a Christian named Francisco Pizzaro who converted the Incan Emperor to Christianity, ransomed his life for a roomful of gold, and then proceeded to strangle him with a dowel and a rope. Slavery and Catholic proselytizing commenced thereafter.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 03:40 AM (8Zpuz)

431 Because you aren't preventing Islamic expansion. You aren't solving
anything. At best, you're kicking the can down the road a bit, while
escalating the battle.
What do you think will happen when the US starts
issuing eviction slips? Do you think that Pakistan is going to be happy
with this turn of events? Do you think that an ideology built on war
will take kindly to this slap in the face?


Posted by: Lauren at August 28, 2011 03:37 AM (ghJ2e)

And allowing Muslims to pour into the west prevents expansion? And so what what if we hurt some Muslim feelings, do you really think Pakistan is going to attack us for it?

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:41 AM (GZitp)

432 sorry, november. That was snotty, no "if" about it. I don't think I understood your question the first time.

Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 03:43 AM (nj1bB)

433 Afraid to do anything. Chamberlin and Daladier were afraid of war so
much that they did nothing but appease hitler until it was too late.

God Damn it. We aren't fucking saying that we are afraid to do something, we're saying that your plan is batshit insane and counterproductive as all Hell.

We aren't a bunch of liberals who think that Islam is just a misunderstood religion of love. We think it's exactly what you say it is: a violent, expansionist ideology.

Given that we agree with that fact, we're able to project beyond the warm fuzzies of seeing our enemy get set back and realize that it would be a fucking disaster to put such a plan in place.


Posted by: Lauren at August 28, 2011 03:43 AM (ghJ2e)

434 Asshole?? I was asking you a question. If you believed hitler meant what he wrote, why do you disbelieve the qur'ran.
I have alredy stated where your place in the qur'ran is. I will do so again.
1. Convert to islam.
2. Accept 2nd class status and pay your jizya.
3. Die.
Are these acceptable choices for you?

Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 03:45 AM (wY55N)

435 Is there a time table in the Koran for this? No, doesn't mean it's not Islam's ultimate goal.


Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:37 AM (GZitp)
Yeah ok, so you just know (given the multiple examples of the Muslim Sword of Damocles that you keep talking about) that they won't do it that soon. You just know.How is it you are the voice of calm and reason only when it suits your specific outlook?

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 03:45 AM (8Zpuz)

436 Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:39 AM
(bxiXv)

And these are the people you want here? What am I missing?

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:46 AM (GZitp)

437 do you really think Pakistan is going to attack us for it?

Suicide bombing takes on a whole different character once nuclear weapons are involved.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 03:46 AM (GE1+K)

438 Are these acceptable choices for you?

No, so they will have to change.

Remaining ignorant of Islam as a nation will not effect that change.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 03:48 AM (GE1+K)

439 And so what what if we hurt some Muslim feelings, do you really think Pakistan is going to attack us for it?

Oh yes, the dispossessed are the most rational of people. Why in the world would I think that they would act in accordance to their highest moral code when their enemy has made them into refuges.

Posted by: Lauren at August 28, 2011 03:49 AM (ghJ2e)

440 Uh, okay. I'll just take your word for it then?
So, you have not read the Koran, or the suras prviously posted in this thread. Ok then.

There is also a shorter, and significantly more violent story, about a Christian named Francisco Pizzaro ...
There are also stories about the Japanese conduct in Korea during Toyotomi Hideyoshi 's invasion(1592 to 159 ...

Posted by: Arbalest at August 28, 2011 03:49 AM (Wh+YQ)

441 And these are the people you want here? What am I missing?

1. We can't kill all of them.
2. We can't "round them up" and put them in one place.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 03:49 AM (GE1+K)

442 The funny thing is, most of the distilled facts being presented are correct. The Saudis are funding radical mosques in the US and Europe designed to both reinforce and import radical muslims and radicalize the general population.

It's also true that an Imam who rejects violent Jihad is a rare bird because, while authority is decentralized in Islam (unless there is an accepted Caliph) (which is part of why it's so hard to reform), Imam's compete partly (largely) on how literally they interpret the Quran and the Hadith (also a reason why it's hard to reform).

The problem is that so far the "solutions" emanating don't seem to have considered anything beyond the first step, especially since the criticism of the plans seems to be such a surprise.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:49 AM (bxiXv)

443 Yeah ok, so you just know (given
the multiple examples of the Muslim Sword of Damocles that you keep
talking about) that they won't do it that soon. You just know.How is it you are the voice of calm and reason only when
it suits your specific outlook?


Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011
03:45 AM (8Zpuz)

I don't get you and Merovign, I really don't. One second Islam isn't really nothing to worry about here in the west and the next we're on the verge of a massive Islamic offensive? Which is it?

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:49 AM (GZitp)

444 Kill them all. God will know his own.

Posted by: GGE, Back In The Horde! at August 28, 2011 03:50 AM (sILPb)

445
Are these acceptable choices for you?

Posted by: GMB at August 28, 2011 03:45 AM (wY55N)

Since you seem so bent on the Mohammed/Hitler analogies, tell me when the Middle East is capable of fielding a war machine as efficient and powerful as the Third Reich. Perhaps they will finally figure out how to defeat a country the size of a cabbage patch (Israel) with 5 on 1 odds.
Or you think Muslims are going to impose their ancient Koranic particulars here? And how are they going to do this, exactly? Hold the President hostage? Install a caliphate in place of the Republic?

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 03:51 AM (8Zpuz)

446 And these are the people you want here? What am I missing?

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:46 AM (GZitp)

Pretty fucking much everything, far as I can tell.

It's like you're reading the messages but not actually understanding the sentences.

Are you drunk? That's a serious question, this is not rocket science.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:51 AM (bxiXv)

447 Slavery and Catholic proselytizing commenced thereafter.
As opposed to human sacrifice. Dont forget Mardi Gras! Most fun in the western hemisphere !
Seriously Yoshi. Go eat a toadstool.

Posted by: meleager at August 28, 2011 03:51 AM (iSQB2)

448 There is always a segment which wishes to advance its preferences (or
simply call attention to itself and thereby increase power) by accusing
others of subversion, treason, and the like.-ace

Sounds like the prelude to a purge. Kinda like how the Right ditched the Birchers back in the '60s- portraying them as a bunch of paranoid cranks- a Communist in every drawer!

Decades later- We Are All Socialists Now! and we've got a White House led by a Marxist revolutionary whose administration is littered with Maoists and we've got a university churning out Keynseian Global Warmists.

Please, bring back the Birchers!

Islam is advancing thru the system from the ground up, just like Marxism. Yet everyone swears it can't happen here- until one morning they wake up wondering "how'd we get here?". Could any one of us have imagined on Sept 10, 2001 that ten years hence, a muslim fanatic would start mowing down his fellow soldiers screaming "Allahu Akbar!" and our press, the intelligentsia and even the Army brass would go overdrive in downplaying any link to Islam- with even the Army chief proclaiming that protecting diversity within the Armed Forces is more important than weeding out more possible muslim fanatics. Stranger things will happen yet.

And not one person of national prominence, Right or Left, has asked the question: How many more Nidal Hassans are plotting their murderous acts still yet?

Islam will continue it's quiet assault, helped along by willing dupes like Rick Perry and wily connivers like the Aga Khan.

Posted by: november1981 at August 28, 2011 03:52 AM (3TGfa)

449 I don't get you and Merovign, I really don't. One second Islam isn't really nothing to worry about here in the west and the next we're on the verge of a massive Islamic offensive? Which is it?
Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:49 AM (GZitp)
Based on your reading comprehension skills my guess is the problem lies with you.

Posted by: buzzion at August 28, 2011 03:53 AM (GULKT)

450 1. We can't kill all of them.2. We can't "round
them up" and put them in one place.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 03:49 AM (GE1+K)

We can at least try quit letting them in can't we? Evidently not.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:53 AM (GZitp)

451 I don't get you and Merovign, I really don't. One second Islam isn't really nothing to worry about here in the west and the next we're on the verge of a massive Islamic offensive? Which is it?

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:49 AM (GZitp)

Is this an ESL problem? Seriously, look back and show me where I said Islam is nothing to worry about.

Or just tell another fucking lie, that will settle it.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:54 AM (bxiXv)

452 430
There is also a shorter, and significantly more violent story, about a Christian named Francisco Pizzaro who converted the Incan Emperor to Christianity, ransomed his life for a roomful of gold, and then proceeded to strangle him with a dowel and a rope. Slavery and Catholic proselytizing commenced thereafter.---Yoshi
Yoshi, no matter how many wrongs, 2, 3, or any possible combination or number greater than 1, it does still not make a right, you see that don't you?
attacking someone'sposition in an argument with your rhetoric is like I posted above, NOT the answer. Deal with the here and now.

Posted by: Tom_Ohio at August 28, 2011 03:54 AM (7U2lm)

453 One second Islam isn't really nothing to worry about here in the west
and the next we're on the verge of a massive Islamic offensive?

Well if we isolate Islam from the moderating nature of the West, you can assume the whole population without counterbalance would fully radicalize. Then we would have a cultural war. Is that too hard to understand?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 03:54 AM (GE1+K)

454 Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:51 AM
(bxiXv)

Yeah I'm drunk, you're going to invent a new new religion for Muslims to follow but I'm drunk.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:54 AM (GZitp)

455 KEGGER!!1!

Posted by: Damn Dirty RINO at August 28, 2011 03:55 AM (+iwM3)

456 I don't get you and Merovign, I
really don't. One second Islam isn't really nothing to worry about here
in the west and the next we're on the verge of a massive Islamic
offensive? Which is it?


Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:49 AM (GZitp)
We have nukes. Some of them have nukes. Sounds a little like the Cold War. How did we survive the Cold War? Detente. When did we almost obliterate Western civilization in the Cold War? The Cuban Missile Crisis, or when we escalated. Literally, a Soviet sub almost nuked American warships. It came down to one man's deciding vote.When you have a potentially volatile situation on your hands, you don't set about lighting as many matches as possible. Those 1.5 billion Muslims who aren't currently involved in a real war with the West, do you want them to get involved or what?

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 03:55 AM (8Zpuz)

457 We can at least try quit letting them in can't we? Evidently not.

Yes. Make religion a requisite for immigration? I'm fairly certain that would be viewed very poorly by the Supreme Court.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 03:56 AM (GE1+K)

458 If we have to deport legal immigrants who have committed no crimes in order to "save" the West, it ain't worth saving.

If we cannot enforce our laws on those legal immigrants when they do commit crimes, then we ain't worth saving.

Anyone who seriously argues in favor of ethnic cleansing, however benign, is essentially arguing in favor of tyranny.

Proposing that we revoke the citizenship of law abiding legal immigrants is so asinine, it ought not even be dignified with any response more profound than a "fuck off, simpleton."






Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 03:57 AM (9CM5J)

459 Yeah I'm drunk, you're going to invent a new new religion for Muslims to follow but I'm drunk.
Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:54 AM (GZitp)

Yeah, well, you see, when you're drunk, you get stupid. WHen you're stupid, you don't understand simple things people say, and you come back with random insane shit like that.

If you were sober, that would just be an out-and-out lie, but since you're drunk... oh, wait, no, it's still a lie.

Back when there were sane people at LGF it was called the Iron Fist rule. Do not post when drunk, because drunk people suck.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:58 AM (bxiXv)

460 Is this an ESL problem? Seriously, look back and
show me where I said Islam is nothing to worry about.



Or just tell another fucking lie, that will settle it.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:54 AM
(bxiXv)
So it is something to worry about now? I thought just some well placed speeches from some moderate Muslims would reform Islam and we can all live in harmony? Just because your arguments all over the place don't pretend I'm the one not getting it.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:58 AM (GZitp)

461 Yoshi, no matter how many wrongs,
2, 3, or any possible combination or number greater than 1, it does
still not make a right, you see that don't you?
attacking someone'sposition in an argument with your
rhetoric is like I posted above, NOT the answer. Deal with the here and
now.


Posted by: Tom_Ohio at August 28, 2011 03:54 AM (7U2lm)

It's ironic you ask me to deal with the here and now and miss the point of the Pizzaro story.Yoden brought up a kingdom that was taken over by Muslims somewhere around the 13th-14th centuries. I brought up a kingdom that was taken over by Christians somewhere in the 16th century.
The point is to deal with the here and now. That means stop appealing to archaic situations hundreds of years old that don't really apply to the modern era.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 03:58 AM (8Zpuz)

462 When you have a potentially volatile situation on your hands, you don't set about lighting as many matches as possible. Those 1.5 billion Muslims who aren't currently involved in a real war with the West, do you want them to get involved or what?
Yes. Fuck them.

Posted by: meleager at August 28, 2011 03:59 AM (iSQB2)

463
Back when there were sane people at LGF it was called the Iron Fist
rule. Do not post when drunk, because drunk people suck.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:58 AM
(bxiXv)

Fuck you, your argument falls apart and you get all pissy that's all this is.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:59 AM (GZitp)

464 It is just a matter of culture and influence
Iran in the 1970, women wore skirts and graduated from medical and law schools and the mullah's are who changed all that. Now the women live in sacks when they are ALLOWED outdoors, they can not drive, vote, or avoid being raped.
God Damn Barack Obama for letting the Iranian Arab Spring fail a year ago, 18 months ago. Iran's culture influences all the others, they were the wellspring of the "rise of the mullahs" in 1979.
Damn you Jimmy Carter too.

Posted by: Tom_Ohio at August 28, 2011 03:59 AM (7U2lm)

465 I don't get you and Merovign, I
really don't. One second Islam isn't really nothing to worry about here
in the west and the next we're on the verge of a massive Islamic
offensive? Which is it?


Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:49 AM (GZitp)

Sez the guy who is proposing the Final Solution to the Muslim Problem. Merovign, never said Islam is nothing to worry about. He said you were full of shit, though he was nicer about it and used prettier words.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 03:59 AM (9CM5J)

466
If we have to deport legal immigrants who have committed no crimes in order to "save" the West, it ain't worth saving.

I've said it before. If that's who we are willing to be, we might as well just accept Sharia. Because obviously we don't value our freedom.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 04:00 AM (GE1+K)

467 Anyone who seriously argues in favor of ethnic cleansing, however benign, is essentially arguing in favor of tyranny.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 03:57 AM (9CM5J)

I'm pretty sure they would manage to get me on the list *somehow*. Probably right after the Mormons.

Hell, I already outed myself as a Sabian, that's pretty fuckin' obscure, we don't need them Sabian freaks! Out they go!

I'm sure I believe *something* sufficiently offensive, or if they can find another one *he'll* believe something offensive and then I can be a "carrier."

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 04:00 AM (bxiXv)

468 We have nukes. Some of them have
nukes. Sounds a little like the Cold War. How did we survive the Cold
War? Detente.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 03:55 AM (8Zpuz)
That only works when both sides are rational enough to not really want a war.

Posted by: GGE, Back In The Horde! at August 28, 2011 04:00 AM (sILPb)

469 So it is something to worry about now? I thought just some well placed speeches from some moderate Muslims would reform Islam and we can all live in harmony? Just because your arguments all over the place don't pretend I'm the one not getting it.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 03:58 AM (GZitp)

My argument hasn't moved. You just lie and lie and lie because nobody's bowing down to your foolish ideas and false accusations.

I tell you to prove your bullshit lies and you just repeat them. Liar.

If you read this post as carefully as you read my others, no doubt you'll come back to let me know my theory about giant pink elephants is WRONG!

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 05:35 AM (bxiXv)

470 Probably just as well that pointless argument got cut off, on to the next waste of time!

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 05:38 AM (bxiXv)

471 Oh, eternal and everlasting God, please send Pope Urban II and Charles
Martel back to earth to wash away the abominable sin of Islam and purge
all Mosques from the Earth. Daily, curse all Imams with cholera and
dysentery, that they may live in great discomfort and fear, and that
they may in thy appointed time, and that would be the sooner the better,
obtain their just reward unto eternal hell. Curse thou, O Lord, the
whole of Dar al Islam and let the world be without it. Amen.

Posted by: FeralCat at August 28, 2011 05:47 AM (parIF)

472 We're going to need a bigger internet.

Holy crap that was long. If that one had gotten double-posted, Pixy would've needed to install a bigger RAID. And that would have made him angry. Never make a Pixy angry.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at August 28, 2011 05:48 AM (r4t7/)

473 Geller and Spencer, hysterical gnat-strainers arguing over the number of angels that can dance on the head of a pin. Meanwhile, most of us know the enemy's game, if not his every name.
I gave up intellectual circle jerks after my Freshman year. They take up a lot of time and yield nothing much but ego polishing and needless frustration.

Posted by: SurferDoc at August 28, 2011 05:58 AM (STdkO)

474 Hell, I already outed myself as a Sabian, that's pretty fuckin' obscure, we don't need them Sabian freaks! Out they go!



Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 04:00 AM (bxiXv)
Huh. I thought you were Sith.

Posted by: GGE, Back In The Horde! at August 28, 2011 07:13 AM (sILPb)

475 Where did all the little green jugs come from?

Posted by: CoolCzech at August 28, 2011 07:19 AM (niZvt)

476 What I learned from radio: Steer Away From Emotional Traffic.

Consider the whole package and don't be blinded by the first measurement.

Posted by: sTevo at August 28, 2011 07:23 AM (VMcEw)

477 According to the Koran, Jesus, Abraham, Jacob, Moses, et al.were good muslims (the word means faithful/obedient). Sorry. I don't have the chapter/verse. Its full of this kind of stuff.

Posted by: Jimbo at August 28, 2011 07:29 AM (O3R/2)

478 And yeasr ago people made fun of those who constantly warned of the communist threat. In the end we find out they made it to the highest levels of government and there was indeed a subversive war being waged against us. But those that warned were/are made fun of. Narrow-minded fools etc... Time will tell and if Ace is wrong, which is more than possible, he will not admit it well. His tone speaks volumes and it ain't very good.Spencer will. Geller, probably on par with Ace. Shame all around.
Find some pudding, dip your balls in it, and go back to doing what you do best.

Posted by: Hurricane at August 28, 2011 07:43 AM (NrdQS)

479 It would be nice if Ace's post would inspire Spencer and Geller to consider the idea that they erred in judgement on this particular matter, but I think they are incapable of such a thing. Maybe some of their more thoughtful readers will get it, though.
Standing ovation to Ace, and ditto #17 and #19. That's all from this amen corner.

Posted by: Beth at August 28, 2011 07:45 AM (kBxk7)

480 Hurricane and all others going on that line of reasoning: it's okay to be vigilant. Vigilance does not mean smearing everyone who has ever acknowledged the presence of Muslims. You aren't being vigilant any more than the fucking Birchers were - you are being ridiculous.

Your silly fallacious bleats saying "we got rid of the Birchers and now look at us! We're all socialists now!" is so far beyond the outer reaches of logic and reality that it defies the straight-face test. Yes, we marginalized the Birchers, and for good fucking reason. Yes, we are all socialists now, and that is bad. The Birchers were not going to keep us from it, they probably hastened it by making anticommunism look crazy (Eisenhower was a communist! Perry is a dhimmi!) Those of you going down this fucking ridiculous path of illogical nonsense clearly do not know your history or remember it well.

Anyone praising the Birchers, ffs, is beneath contempt. You are more harmful to conservatism and the anti-jihadi movement than just about anyone. Beneath contempt.

Posted by: Beth at August 28, 2011 07:55 AM (kBxk7)

481 None of this matters. Everything is decided and cannot be changed. The Wizards of Blogdom have anointed Cowboy Rick as the next president. He alone has pulled the neutral goods from the stone. The Wizards of Blogdom know what they know and they blog because they know and they know what they blog and all of you know that the Wizards know and therefore now know. So let it be blogged; so let it be done.

Posted by: Anonymous Wizard of Blogdom at August 28, 2011 07:55 AM (hZqYp)

482 Ace , what you call information about islam is not infomation at all , it is what Imams would aprove and what they would teach in their mosques .

That is a BIG mistake , mistake often made by liberals and useful fools .

You did use some text as an example , and you define it as just information about Islam , pure and clean information . But you are wrong about it , very wrong .

No matter if the text began with "for many muslims around the world..." , because what follows it is just the muslim propaganda , the muslim point of view.

If it were just information it should say also something like "and for many muslims around the world who took mohamed as the perfect example of behavior to abuse young girls is right because he did it , he marry a six old girl and rape her when he was 9"( yes , with 9 year old there are not sex , there can't be . It is just rape.)

And that is just and example of information that it is not given , the text just teach what the imams would teach in a mosque.
And it does not change by using " for many muslims around the world..." , because for many muslims around the world to abuse children is right , to treat women as lesser beings is right , to kill those who are not muslims is right , etc ... and that information is not given .

But when teaching about the crusades they talk about killings , fanatism , land occupied by christians , etc ... and some of that information could be right , so it should be taught ... the facts are information , so it should be taught .

So if they can talk about christians , jews , or any other religion giving information that could make them look bad ... why it can not be done the same with islam? Because it is not information as you said , it is propaganda , and you should recognice it.


In this fight against Spencer and Geller I think you are mostly wrong , but some of your points are understandable ... the problem here is that it scalate to a personal fight between respectable blogers .

Spencer did a stupid thing by demeaning your blog , you did a wrong thing attacking what Geller and Spencer said in a harsh way . To take the "personal fight factor " out of the discussion would be much apreciated by those who respect you and Spencer, and I am one of those you respect you both . .






Posted by: Miguel Angel at August 28, 2011 07:58 AM (OykbC)

483 So Miguel Angel, all the inside baseball stuff aside, do you really think Rick Perry is a "stealth jihad" candidate? Do you actually respect that kind of sloppy work that says such a thing?

It's pretty obvious they are using their background in anti-Islamism as a way to attack a candidate that is an existential threat to their Chosen One. This "stealth jihad" shit won't play to the libs, it's meant for the Palin/Bachmann supporters to keep them on board, and it couldn't be more obvious. Don't be stupid.

Posted by: Beth at August 28, 2011 08:06 AM (kBxk7)

484 It's because of things like this that I stopped reading Jihad Watch a couple of years ago. I honestly and truly do not know how Robert Spencer still does it. I really don't. How that man gets up in the morning to face this kind of thing 10 long years after 9/11 is a mystery to me. Not only does he have the patience of a saint, he's got the fortitude of a bull. To have to constantly defend himself to people like Ace who doesn't have the first clue what he's talking about but still talks about it is just pathetic. I read this whole piece just shaking my head wondering how someone like Ace could get it so wrong and be such an asshole while being so wrong. There really is no hope for this world. Islam will win in the end and it's because of people like Ace who are too lazy to find out what Muslims themselves say and instead attack people like Spencer and Gellar who report what Muslims themselves say but hurt their wittle feelings in the process. Whatever. I gave up a long time ago. You can't argue with Creationists, Ron Paul supporters, and Islam defenders. It's a waste of time.

Posted by: Jaynie59 at August 28, 2011 08:06 AM (4zKCA)

485

69
My take-away on Ace's post:

1. Supporting Perry is hard work.

2. Norquist shook Sarah Palin's hand.

3.
What the heck is the State of Texas doing supporting religious
instruction in public school classrooms? I know Rick Perry loves his
wealthy friends, but this is ridiculous.

4. New Belgium's "Trippel" tastes good and packs a punch.


Posted by: mrp at August 28, 2011 12:17 AM (HjPtV)

That's about it.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at August 28, 2011 08:08 AM (bAL0J)

486

Well if we isolate Islam from the moderating nature
of the West, you can assume the whole population without counterbalance
would fully radicalize. Then we would have a cultural war. Is that too
hard to understand?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 28, 2011 03:54 AM (GE1+K)

Wake up, we already have a cultural war.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at August 28, 2011 08:22 AM (bAL0J)

487 Did you know Obama is a stuttering clusterfuck of a miserable failure?

http://tinyurl.com/3ftqoq8

Posted by: Kenmore at August 28, 2011 08:23 AM (u+8qs)

488 Can she point to any school-issued history book that says the Crusades were the fault of Muslims?

I can. But then again, I went to a Catholic school in 8th grade.

Posted by: NR Pax at August 28, 2011 08:28 AM (7M8NG)

489 474
Hell, I already outed myself as a Sabian, that's pretty fuckin' obscure, we don't need them Sabian freaks! Out they go!


Sybian freak?!? I'd like to date her

Posted by: Moochelle at August 28, 2011 08:32 AM (u+8qs)

490 What a repulsive bunch the Geller/Spencer team have become.

Posted by: Profiterole at August 28, 2011 08:41 AM (ychgM)

491
Careful there, Ace. You're playing an 'inside baseball' game with people who know the game, the stadiums, the players and coaches, muchbetter than you do.
Yeah, yeah, you're free to have an opinion...just remember that old saw about opinions.
(Seriously, Ace, you guys are starting to sound like Chas, lately.)

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at August 28, 2011 08:42 AM (E7Z1r)

492 I think Pam's titties are fake.

Posted by: Profiterole at August 28, 2011 08:47 AM (ychgM)

493 I once spend a couple of hours with Norquist, helping him slap Clinton Gore stickers onto the tops of a case of specimen jars which he then handed out to all the cops providing security for the 1996 Democrat convention. Would that make me a dhimmi, in Geller's eyes?

Posted by: NC Mountain Girl at August 28, 2011 08:49 AM (m90eG)

494 You're a sell out.

You sold out America.

I put YOU in the same camp as Chuckie Johnson.

Pamela Geller knows what she is fighting against and you don't.

As for guilt by association; you didn't have a problem doing that to Obama, did you?

Anyhow, I guess, I won't be coming around here anymore.


Posted by: Pat in Michigan (Yes, that one!) at August 28, 2011 09:01 AM (Z9ZMs)

495 Nice to see all the "true patriots" outing themselves. Have fun tirelessly labeling dhimmis and commies on the internet.

YOU'VE SOLD OUT AMERICA OMG OMG!!!

Really, now.

Posted by: Yoshi, Aggrieved Victim of the White Man at August 28, 2011 09:10 AM (8Zpuz)

496 Bye, Pat.

Pam Geller always gave me a weird vibe. Spencer too. I skip Red Eye when she's a guest. I have a funny feeling they might have wrapped round the proverbial horseshoe. I commented on a James Delingpole column in the Daily Telegraph comments section some time ago that all genuinely eliminationist rhetoric is an effusion of the Left. I think the similarity is so exact as to be a congruence. Having said that, there is a tiny kernel of truth in Geller and Spencer's position. I believe there exist such entities as moderate Moslems. That's what we used to call a GOTBO, back when I was a research engineer: A Glimpse Of The Bleeding Obvious. I lived next door to a whole family of them, and really the only cultural complaint I had was that teenage daughter was overly fond of Ace of Base, and we had thin walls*. When I went on holiday, I'd say, "hello Mr Akbar, could you keep an eye on the joint while I'm away?" He'd do the same. He in no way threatened my lifestyle, and I in no way threatened his. But do such people exist in sufficient numbers to outweigh the zealots? Is there a genuinely moderate Islam? I hope so. I really hope so. I fear this may not be the case. Richard Fernandez, aka Wretchard, who now blogs at Pajamas [sic] Media, wrote a famous article called Three Conjectures. He posits that the moment Islamic terrorists get their hands on a one-point safe nuclear device, civilisation will move to end Islam, and it will do so by ending its followers. In all of this, lest we be branded racists or bigots or whatever boo-word is closest to hand, we have to carefully caveat everything we say about the likely (or even possible) outcome of a truly systemic clash with this proviso: we do not advocate genocide, but we predict it. I don't want it to happen, but I fear that it will.

* when I graduated with my M.Sc., i retaliated by playing "Stupid Girl" by Garbage on a loop until 6am. Bwahahahaha. That'll learn 'er.

Posted by: David Gillies at August 28, 2011 09:10 AM (FdBA0)

497 Yuck. Watching bloggers in a pissing match is like watching a slap fight between teenage girls.

Posted by: bedlam at August 28, 2011 09:12 AM (U7sOG)

498 "Anyhow, I guess, I won't be coming around here anymore."

Well, bye.

Posted by: Curly Bill at August 28, 2011 09:14 AM (64fb0)

499

Anti 1070 la raza stooge perry is above criticism.

Love is blind.

Posted by: Temper Tantrum at August 28, 2011 09:15 AM (bAL0J)

500 Defending Rick Perry is indeed hard work.
Its going to get a lot harder. If this kind of reactionary defensiveness is any clue, there's going to be some real War and Peace posts on this blog soon.
Is Rick Perry a stealth jihadi? No, but he is a corrupt, money bagging crony dhimmi by default of basic, core stupidity.
This is not a bright man. I'd like to see the blank stare on his face if he was asked in an interview about dhimmitude.
But SuperRick! isnt doing too many interviews it seems, since Trumping himself in week 1 of his campaign. He did go on Laura Ingraham's radio show and came off very poorly.
A man wants to be POTUS but cant speak in even rudimentary terms about our trade realationship with China? Well, who cares, right? They dont speak Spanish.
And Republicans should sever ties with Norquist. He launders Saudi money all over Washington.

Posted by: njinfl at August 28, 2011 09:16 AM (M2X9r)

501 Woke up early still drunk (yay! no hangover!!!...yet). French press coffee, two fried eggs topped w/ sour cream diced serrano peppers, bacon, TX toast fresh made guacamole. Take that you stupid diet!

Anyway.

I dunno which was better...my breakfast or this post and the comments.

Went to Geller's sight just once I think (maybe to see her in that Super girl outfit...and probably rub one out). I don't remember. I think poor Pam has gone the full Debbie Schlussel. B-bye. RS disengage! Liked Spencer* sorta. His blog reads like stereo instructions. And his fans would argue, "You're too dumb to get it!" No, no. I get it just fine. But he writes like he's praying that the Farm boys at Langley or the President (over morning coffee) will read his stuff and invite him over (and I'm sure they have once or twice). But bad news Robert. The sitting President don't read nothin' that ain't got his name in it at least 20 times (NYT holla!), and the CIA reads Michael Totten.

*for the record, I've never rubbed one out to Robert Spencer.


Posted by: Lamontyoubigdummy at August 28, 2011 09:16 AM (n7Yi9)

502 You wrote: "Or are we going to just say that Grover Norquist is a big DC Establishment players whom politicians routinely, and without considering the Jihad Implications, meet with?"
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Republican leaders, politicians, candidates, etc., would do well to maintain a healthy distance from Grover Norquist. He is very bad news.

Posted by: Steve at August 28, 2011 09:17 AM (tPKdT)

503 So, did Ace like the movie or not?

Posted by: naturalfake at August 28, 2011 09:27 AM (I49Jm)

504 I'm sorry, what?

Posted by: Jimbo at August 28, 2011 09:34 AM (m1kS7)

505
my local radio guy who is all out against Perry because he prays will probably latch on to these distortions of Perry and beg people to back Romney. as for Pam Gellar, she comes off as a shrill woman who just labels people who disagree with her (like Michelle Malkin). She'd be a nice lay and all if I was single (and Pam you whore yourslef out with photos so don't be so offended if people talk about wanting to do you), but I couldn't take her too seriously in matters like this. Robert Spencer is a little more rational but has an obsession with backing Gellar in hopes for a hook up or something with her that's never gonna happen. app. Chuck hates her because she rejected him for a date or something. Either way I doubt you'll get Gellar or Spencer to retract some things as their egos won't allow it. and btw trolls, we love all the traffic you're giving ace!

Posted by: AuthorLMendez (Perry Guy Bitches) at August 28, 2011 09:38 AM (HhCkU)

506 Ace, it seems to me that you want to keep alive the idea of a "moderate Islam." There are small heretical Muslim groups that teach a peaceful version of Islam. However, the mainstream version of Sunni Islam, the dominant form of Islam, teach that Islam MUST rule the world, BY FORCE IF NECESSARY. The more religious Muslims there are in an area, the more violent practitioners of Islam you will find, and the worse things will be for everyone else. You ultimately can't make peace with Islam.

It's true that there are not so religious Muslims who are quite peaceful. I've actually known several when I was in school. The people I knew were secular people who liked the USA because they didn't have religion or tyranny shoved down their throats here. Unlike the countries they came from, they were free in the USA.

Unfortunately, we may have to limit Muslim immigration and travel to the USA. The problem isn't just a few crazies. Muslims, unlike Christians or Jew, are peaceful IN SPITE OF THEIR RELIGION, NOT BECAUSE OF IT.

If Pam Geller or Robert Spencer overreact, it's because they understand this. You can't make peace with people who have sworn to God to either kill you or convert you. Because of the nature of Islam, you can't even tell who's on your side because Islam allows lying to protect the life of another Muslim. Some of these issues are discussed at http://preview.tinyurl.com/3achnov

Ace, I think you're spending too much time attacking the WRONG side. As to what our future may hold, read this short story, http://preview.tinyurl.com/wultw or
Tom Kratman's book, Caliphate, see http://preview.tinyurl.com/3d868m7

Posted by: I Agree More With Pam at August 28, 2011 09:43 AM (fMzd7)

507 Okay, Ace.... I call bull crap on you. Just because Sarah Palin shook hands with Grover Norgquist over a year ago, does not say anything about what she thinks of him.... one way or the other. She was speaking at some event and in going to lecturn, shakes his hand. Big Fkg deal.
Don't you dare drag her into this bitch fight you have with Pamela Geller.
That is a girlie man gambit... and a really wimpy, limp wristed stretch.... nice try, but screw off with that sht.

You want to bitch fight with Pamela, go ahead. But don't drag Sarah Palin into it. She has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with this.

Posted by: PhilipJames at August 28, 2011 09:44 AM (G9AXq)

508 No matter what Geller says: It was an *academic* course for teachers. It was not religious instruction.


I'm down with that.


Posted by: Bill - Just Another Guy In The Neighborhood. at August 28, 2011 09:46 AM (HjPtV)

509 "But don't drag Sarah Palin into it."

Don't worry, she doesn't like to get involved with anything. Running for POTUS, being a dhimmi, etc.

Unless there is a check in it for her.

Posted by: Curly Bill at August 28, 2011 09:46 AM (64fb0)

510 *I've never rubbed out one to Debbie Schlussel either.

Even though she looks like Clemmy from Reno 911.

Just saying.

Posted by: Lamontyoubigdummy at August 28, 2011 09:51 AM (n7Yi9)

511 Phillip James can't read all the way through. Or at least past "Google Search".

Lot of Palin fans are that way.

Posted by: Lamontyoubigdummy at August 28, 2011 09:57 AM (n7Yi9)

512 Masterful.

And oh, by the way - even if we came to the conclusion that there are no "moderate" Muslims amidst the one billion believers, what then?

I fear the extremes of this religion. Maybe some of the "mainstream" as well. I think we should have our eyes open and be appropriately vigilant. But I will not declare one billion people my enemy, which is what it seems Geller has done and wants me to do.

That, I think, is as foolish as not believing Islam has very dangerous followers.

Posted by: Darcy at August 28, 2011 10:07 AM (t4i27)

513 5,689 word blog post Ace? Any senator reading your post on the floor would be accused of filibustering.

Posted by: Immolate at August 28, 2011 10:26 AM (0pB27)

514

It seems to me that thereis a questionhanging in the air:
Was Pamela Gellar crusading against Rick Perry before he became a threat to Sarah Palin's possible run for the presidency?
Since I don't read her blog much at all, I really don't know. But she is into the anti-jihad-anti-dhimmi thing real heavy, so if Perry is sooo damnbad......has she singled him out for exposure for his perceiveddhimmi-ness before? This thing with the Aga Khan is old news. Why bring it up now? And which candidate does she think is any better on this issue?

Posted by: ConservativeMenAreJustHotter at August 28, 2011 10:29 AM (nxLfK)

515 Yes and who is captain of "guilt by association"? Why none other than cheez jonsin.
We've come full circle.

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at August 28, 2011 10:30 AM (0fzsA)

516 Allah is the Devil.The Prophet was the real AntiChrist.All mooslimes are Devil worshippers.
That's all ya need ta know.

Posted by: chuck in st paul at August 28, 2011 10:32 AM (EhYdw)

517 Nice work, Ace. Pam has been punked. While I do not hate Pam and I agree with her take on Mayor Gloomberg- she is 100% wrong on this one.

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at August 28, 2011 10:36 AM (0fzsA)

518 To 483 Beth .

Beth , you told me "don't be stupid".
But anything I said is stupid ? I just pointed out something that Ace said , something that mean to play the "useful fool" role.

If Ace believe that saying "For millions of Muslims around the world, the Prophet Muhammad has become the paradigm, or role model, who is worthy of being emulated. As God’s chosen prophet and messenger, he best embodied how to live a life in accordance with God’s will.blah blah" is just giving information then ... where is the rest of the information about islam ?

I mean , where are the part where they say "for millions of muslims muhammad open the way to paedophilia , killing those who are not muslims , slaving woman , etc " . Or if you prefer you could talk about that facts in a more "soft" way ... but at least those fact should be given if you want to call it information .

What Ace is talking about is not information , it is just the "mosque aproved" version of islam for dhimmis ... or for dummies ... well , both things are related.

About Christians , jews , etc the information is given in a different way . It is a critic information , crusaders are often depicted as murderous , they occupy muslim land ( which was not muslin land ) , etc ... the same about another christian related matters ...
If the information about christians and jews can be given in such critical way and often wrongly ofensive way ... why should the information about islam be given as the imams want it to be given to the infidel? .

It is propaganda , not information , and I just pointed it out . I don't uderstand why you call me stupid.


And about that "hidden war" against Perry . I don't believe he is the "stealth jihad candidate" , but it is a fact that he ows some favors to wrong people ... and , I don't like that.

I am from Spain , and I can tell you that in europe we have paid a high price because those kind of things . Because politicians have been very kind towards islam and some islamic countries , entities , even dictators.

So the real hidden agenda it is not Spencer/Geller anti-perry agenda , the real hidden agenda is the hidden agenda of those muslims countries and muslim people that try to pass islam "under the radar" ... and those politicians as Perry , maybe unintentionally , are giving them the chance to do it , by owing them favors ,by being "foolishly kind" towards them , etc


So , I think that most of you take that out of context , you try to make make it some kind of war Palin Vs Perry , and I don't think it is like that .It is a matter of "muslim hidden agenda" in some ways , even if Perry should not be seen as any kind of "hidden jihad candidate" in a intentional way.

Posted by: Miguel Angel at August 28, 2011 10:37 AM (0I1gP)

519 My argument hasn't moved. You just lie and lie and
lie because nobody's bowing down to your foolish ideas and false
accusations.



I tell you to prove your bullshit lies and you just repeat them. Liar.



If you read this post as carefully as you read my others, no doubt
you'll come back to let me know my theory about giant pink elephants is
WRONG!

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 05:35 AM
(bxiXv)

Your argument? You didn't have a fuck'n argument. You're whole solution is some fantasy of 1.5 billion Muslims tearing out half the Koran then living in harmony with the rest of the world. What possible reason would they have to do that when they have morons like you in the west that put up with their shit in hopes that some day they'll change? Then when someone proposes that Islam isn't compatible with the West and should be stopped from coming here you predict Armageddon because of their violent nature. I asked you before, if they're so prone to violence why the fuck are they here?
It's one or the other, either the whole Islamic world is reasonable and wants to change their belief system to get along with the rest of the world or their a violent group bent on aggression. It can't be both at the same time.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 10:39 AM (GZitp)

520 Well, Ace, at least you're getting some practice on all the times you'll have to defend Perry from BS accusations. This one is mild by comparison of what's coming as long as he continues to look like a threat to Obama, the left,and establishment Repubs.
It's a long time until the primaries. Stock up on the Val-u-rite, and get some sleep while you can. For all the shit thrown at Palin (and you even had to include her in this post), I find it all highly amusing.

Posted by: Steph at August 28, 2011 10:44 AM (Qz3vR)

521 Oh, I will vote for Perry, if Palin doesn't get in.

Posted by: Steph at August 28, 2011 10:44 AM (Qz3vR)

522 Ace: face it dude, Spencer bitch slapped you. instead of taking it like a man you take the way of the coward and try and drag Sarah into your tawdry mess.

hiding behind a womans skirts.

what an effin' pussy you are.

Posted by: panchita at August 28, 2011 10:48 AM (mbCgy)

523 The length of the post says it all. You'll look smarter if you let it go and let the memory fade.

Posted by: Huggy at August 28, 2011 10:49 AM (lOwzx)

524 If just mentioning what non-Christian religions like Islam believe is a problem for Geller, I guess her head would explode if the syncretistic Cao Dai were brought up...

Posted by: JohnAGJ at August 28, 2011 10:57 AM (JVSVY)

525 This discussion could [and should] have been quite useful in this campaign.

BUT.

But for the ad hominem slurs from BOTH sides. That little failure of self-discipline - on BOTH sides - ensured that this will be classified as a Blog Squabble with the issues ignored, the admittedly complex and research-heavy evidence ignored.

That gives Norquist and Perry ample reason to simply walk away from the questions.

Instead of "How close are the ties to Islamophilia of a major POTUS candidate?" and "How best does a state present the True picture of Islam in schools?"

We've degenerated to:

"Academic distracted by Barracuda's Juggs!"

"Stupid, lazy beer-swilling frat boy!"

*shakes head*wanders off*

Posted by: Running Hobo at August 28, 2011 10:59 AM (l1oyw)

526 "Posted by: PhilipJames at August 28, 2011 09:44 AM (G9AXq)"

That "zing" you heard was Ace's point going over your head.

Posted by: prettypinkfluffypanties at August 28, 2011 11:02 AM (x7Ly4)

527 Who gives a rats ass what Pam Geller says anymore. She's jumped the shark.

Google Pamela Geller's Tit's and you get over 78,000 links.

It's all about her tits at this stage and without pics, this thread is useless.

Posted by: IslamicRageBoy at August 28, 2011 11:10 AM (7cXE7)

528 Are Geller and Spencer not both Jewish? If so, do they also practice their religion according to the old laws? Are they slaughtering the fatted goat on Fridays according to Kosher laws? Do they follow the Torah according to how it was written taken literally? If so, are they not in violation of some U.S. laws?
While there were 3,000 people murdered by radical Islamists on 9-11, and 13 brutally murdered by Nidal Hassan (SoA) at Fort Hood, it is small change (not to diminish the horror) compared to the number of violent crimes committed by illegals every year in the U.S. Yet, while we spend $$ millions every year to diminish the threat of radical Islam against American citizens, we ignore the threat our southern borders present, the latest action of the Obama [joke] administration to give a back door amnesty.
So, to use the connect-the-dot theory that Geller and Spencer are using, can we not say that any politician who has ever had anything to do with any Hispanic is now an open-borders advocate? John McCain had Juan Hernandez on his "Hispanic" outreach committee. Hernandez, and his brother Francisco, are open-border advocates with Juan even serving on Vicente Fox's cabinet. (Yeah, an American citizens served on the Mexican cabinet; how's that for a conflict of interest?)
Here, think about this: Rick Perry has supported Francisco Canseco for a U.S. Congress seat. Canseco is a Texas born Hispanic. Perry must be open-borders because he supported a Hispanic. All Hispanics are open-border advocates. (using the Geller/Spencer connect the dot theory)
Now, that is not true. Canseco is a sealed border advocate, but because he is Hispanic, and illegal Hispanics sneak across our borders and commit crimes, Canseco must be open-borders and support crimes committed by illegal Hispanics. (again, using the Geller/Spencer connect the dot theory)
What is most troubling about Geller/Spencer's attack on Perry is their failure to mention that Perry has been a friend to Israel since his days as Texas Agricultural Commissioner. They also fail to mention that Frank Gaffney's group, Center for Security Policy, has defended Perry and that Daniel Pipes wrote this on his web site:
"I agree with you that Geller's attack on Perry is irresponsible. The Aga Khan is a leading anti-Islamist figure and Perry's connection to Grover Norquist is taxation, not Islam."
Are we to next read from Geller/Spencer that Daniel Pipes is a Sha'ria supporting "dhimmi?" Are they willing to go on the record bashing Pipes?

Posted by: zane at August 28, 2011 11:13 AM (sQnt4)

529 Now, indeed, this is all sort of weak PC stuff. But it's PC stuff of
the perfectly routine variety. Academics teaching a course about Islam
think Islam isn't too shabby; film at 11.

Of course you're perfectly right.

Look, I wish that public schools, well public high schools, did a much more thorough job teaching Western Civilization, Comparative Religions, History, and the rest of it. They don't. They do a lousy job.

The fact of the matter is that most teachers are not up to the task anyway.

In light of the fact that most public school graduates don't know even the basics of American History or Civics, it's probably best to just leave things like a course on Comparative Religions out of the curriculum altogether. Which is also why, incidentally, I'm not a big fan of teaching Creationism in any class, even a non-science class.

The short version of all of this is that if Rick Perry is a closet Muslim-sympathizer based on what Texas schools are teaching about Islam, then every friggin' governor in the country is a closet Muslim. Or, if their state's schools don't touch on the subject at all, they are at the very least guilty of being weak-willed in the face of the Islamization of the U.S., right?

Posted by: Y-not hasn't read the comments at August 28, 2011 11:13 AM (5H6zj)

530 Is there a summary available?

Posted by: Doug S at August 28, 2011 11:17 AM (bGgEi)

531 You know, I trust, that Islam considers it part of, the successor to
and culmination of, the Judeo-Christian tradition, right? And they
believe that Jesus, for example, is a lesser prophet. Lesser to
Mohammad, of course.


Wrong again, ace. You are often wrong about these sorts of things. Because you don't know jack shit about islam but love to rant on as if it didn't matter.
islam does not consider itself any successor to Judaism or Christianity, because islam teaches that Jews are liars who witheld "allah" from the people (for very evil and nefarious reasons, which is why muslims are instructed TO KILL JEWS). muslims don't even consider Christianity worth considering, since they consider Christianity to be idolatry and NEVER include Christianity when they speak of "monotheistic religions" (though fools like you think they are including Christianity in that).
On top of that, islam bears no relation to Judaism or Christianity, other than what Mo stole (and perverted) to claim as his revelation and to stress that the Jews and Christians are evil liars because the original stories disagree with Mo's plagiarized versions.
I could go on for days with examples like this, but if you don't even know the rudimentary elements of islam and islamic culture, then it would be a wste of time.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 28, 2011 11:19 AM (F5tJy)

532 Above, one of the new posters wrote regarding Robert Spencer, "To have to constantly defend himself to people like Ace who doesn't have the first clue what he's talking about but still talks about it is just pathetic."

For one thing, Robert Spencer could've chosen to ignore whatever Ace writes. For another, I'm getting a big-time Charles Johnson fanboy vibe, which happens whenever Ace points out Johnson's increasing instability and irrelevance. A whole platoon of LGF supporters come out of the woodwork--or, more likely, Johnson and his seemingly endless array of sockpuppets--and start spamming the thread with righteous anger and invective and testimonials to the greatness of Charles Johnson.

Look, all you guys white-knighting Pamela Gellar: she is not going to sleep with you because you defended her virtue on another blog.

Robert Spencer might, though. Good luck with that. Bring flowers.

Posted by: troyriser at August 28, 2011 11:23 AM (YCeSE)

533 Gee Ace.. I dunno.. I think Geller and Spencer have set themselves up as ultimate experts on jihadism.. and their anti-Perry schtick will help give Hussein bin Obama four more years. I think they'd prefer this.. with Perry they'd have less Outrage! to get blog traffic and drum up business for their books..

Posted by: S. Wolf at August 28, 2011 11:26 AM (cA0zw)

534 #514 to my knowledge this whole broo-haha with Geller, and Schlussel, started with the Salon article that linked to a CAIR release. (I guess now Geller/Spencer/Schlussel now consider Salon/CAIR to be honest brokers)
So the answer to your question is "No", Geller did not seem to have a problem with Perry prior to the Salon article. Nevermind that the article was written by someone who has, in the past, defended the Muslim Brotherhood. Nor, to my knowlege, has Geller ever attacked McCain for having an open-borders advocate on his campaign staff, one that actually served on the Mexican cabinet of Vicente Fox.
Texas has an approx. 600,000 Muslims. Are these lesson plans for those schools with a Muslim student body? I sit on a small town Texas school board that approves curriculum. Lessons are submitted to us by the TEA for use in our district. I did not know about any of this until I read Geller's article at AT. Did we not get the memo because we have NO Muslim students?
This whole guilt by association thing bothers me. It is like telling me that the Germans were Nazis so consequently all Germans were Nazis although we know that there were some who were not and even helped Jews escape Nazi Germany. Hello! Schlinder's List?

Posted by: zane at August 28, 2011 11:28 AM (sQnt4)

535 I guess that ace would think that, if a guy in India created a new political ideology based on communism, but taking George Washington as his Prophet and claiming Washignton D.C. as a Holy City, then this new George Washington COmmunism (thought up by someone who had no interaction with America, Americans, or the structure of our nation and our culture) would "consider[] it part of, the successor to
and culmination of" the United States. Not quite. Picking out famous people and well known texts to steal, pervert and claim as ones own is not indicative of a "succesor" or the "culmination". It is the confusion that a few names and labels lead people like ace to assume 'same name, same meaning', which is pure silliness.

We see modern leftists do this with conservative wording all the time. They steal our phrases and pervert them to meanings and purposes totally at odds with what they are. That is what Mo did. He considered that the "culmination or successor" to Judaism and Christianity about as much as modern leftists who talk about "competition" (for CrapTrade, for example) are representing a "culmination and successor" to conservativism (from which they stole the terminology).

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 28, 2011 11:34 AM (F5tJy)

536 So let me get this straight, this whole thing is going on because Pam wouldn't let Ace cop a feel?

Posted by: Marine at August 28, 2011 11:37 AM (RnBmU)

537 You know, I may be Catholic, but for those of us who yearn for a time when Christian values were strong and concepts of shame and social pressure existed based on a universal concept of morality and sacrament...

Well, shit, sometimes I'd rather live in a Muslim nation than an athiest nation anyhow.

Posted by: emaugust at August 28, 2011 11:44 AM (E8wmM)

538 According to you (ace), we HAVE to build bridges with the muslims because the only alternative is out and out war.... Seems to me that there can be imaginative ways of dealing with muslims (or more appropriately, limiting our dealings with the muslims) such as ending immigration of muslims to the U.S., getting off muslim oil, checking only muslims at the airports, ridiculing islam at every opportunity, etc. But what bridges are worthbeing built if EVERYWHERE muslims go they want to impose sharia ??? The modern tactic is the "stealth jihad" through immigration and lawsuits, instead of the historical, war-on-the-infidel jihad. It is happening all over the world. But you want to build bridges to muslims because the alternative is Armageddon... get a grip, dude. Seems to me that it's only the muslims who want to bring "Judgment Day" through jihad and fitna...

Posted by: Robert Mejia at August 28, 2011 11:50 AM (vyNXF)

539 If I were dhimmi - would you guys blog about me?

I mean, I can do that.

Let me know?

Posted by: Look! JON HUNTSMAN at August 28, 2011 11:59 AM (p+mzQ)

540 ACE!! I've supported you through thick and thin. When you were shivering in fright and leaking puddles of fluid about Anthony Weiner, I tossed you a bundle of rags and a mop. But this time you have gone too far! Attacking Spencer because he doesn't want to be sold a bill of goods by Perry, so asks legitimate questions and finds solid information you don't like? That's weak, fella. You know next to nothing about Islam and you stumble about the world like that blithering fool, PG Wodehouse.

Spencer described you right. Juvenile. Lightweight. Fratboy. You just can't handle his disapproval. So in response you write 5700 words of mush and flannel. Epic Failure. But you've got your place in the blogosphere, you know. It's OK to be low brow and to appeal to the low brow. Stick to posting pictures of hot chicks with big breasts. You won't have to stress your mind with critical thought, inconvenient facts or to worry about Gloria Allred suing you.

Posted by: Trey Cannon at August 28, 2011 12:00 PM (uyq4H)

541 That's how strong the case is in their book -- not only enough to hang
the actual accused, by the accused's acquaintances, for associating with
a known felon, or someone they should have known was a felon.


This sounds like what actual jihadists do. Maybe Spencer and Geller need to take a break, they're in too deep.

Posted by: mpurinTexas, Evil Conservanatrix, supports Rick Perry, bitch at August 28, 2011 12:02 PM (J4Pnx)

542 Hey Trey Cannon.... you are too clever by half...

ACE!! I've supported you through thick and thin

then you write...

Spencer described you right. Juvenile. Lightweight. Fratboy.


Really?

Posted by: Yip in Texas at August 28, 2011 12:04 PM (SyLEU)

543 I'm with PAM and SPENCER on this.

You need to set your ego aside ACE and open your eyes ...unless you have a backup plan to sell prayer rugs.

Posted by: General P.Malaise at August 28, 2011 12:04 PM (mJPD2)

544 If anyone thinks this next election is going to be about Islam's reach into the USA is not paying attention.

Am I missing something? Is this not about a fundamental break in the country between a small Federal Government and low burden on citizens ( which frees the economy to create jobs ) and a machine big government that can tell everyone what to do all the time and tax the crap out of us all to level society.

Posted by: Yip in Texas at August 28, 2011 12:08 PM (SyLEU)

545
Once, when I was in Hawaii, on the island of Kauai, I met a mysterious old
stranger. He said he was about to die and wanted to tell someone about the
treasure. I said, "Okay, as long as it's not a long story. Some of us have
a plane to catch, you know.". He started telling his story, about the
treasure and his life and all, and I thought: "This story isn't too long."
But then, he kept going, and I started thinking, "Uh-oh, this story is
getting long." But then, the story was over, and I said to myself: "You
know, that story wasn't too long after all." I forget what the story was
about, but there was a good movie on the plane. It was a little long,
though.
Jack Handey

Posted by: Jack H. at August 28, 2011 12:18 PM (qBP3v)

546 Awful lot of stupidity in this thread, most of it coming from "lowandslow."

Merovign (dude, that's gotta be a misspelling, right?) and Balrog have been hammering him admirably, however. I associate myself fully with #458 in particular.

Posted by: Jeff B. at August 28, 2011 12:20 PM (D9z3D)

547 Wait, didn't that little green idiot employ the same guilt by association like practices against Geller and Spencer on his hate crusade against them?

Ace, is right. Pam Geller, Spencer, Charles Johnson are 3 peas in a pod nutcases and deserve each other.

Posted by: Topsecretk9 at August 28, 2011 12:22 PM (PK7oq)

548 My wife is a teacher and whatever NiceJugs is saying about curriculum is bullshit. If she wants to be a total LGF fuckstick, that's her decision, but I've seen better faces on a cabbage patch doll. Apparently, NiceJugs is a Huntsman fan.

Posted by: Hill Country Texan at August 28, 2011 12:23 PM (Ih8Z0)

549 So can we finally change our ROE to "nuke them from orbit?"

Posted by: Fritz at August 28, 2011 12:23 PM (YhI7X)

550 I'm getting Cold War flashbacks reading some of these JihadWatch posters. I was a soldier when Reagan was President, and I don't recall the Gipper encouraging zealotry or hysterical finger-pointing or wild accusations. Accusing others of not being anti-communist enough is not how the Cold War was won.

Bottom line: claiming Rick Perry is some kind of dhimmi is absurd on its face. By accusing Perry, Spencer and Gellar discredit themselves. If they keep it up, they'll be relegated to the fringe and largely ignored--which would be a shame since both Spencer and Gellar sometimes have valid things to say. Doing shit like this takes them off the board.

Posted by: troyriser at August 28, 2011 12:29 PM (YCeSE)

551 546
Awful lot of stupidity in this thread, most of it coming from "lowandslow."

Merovign (dude,
that's gotta be a misspelling, right?) and Balrog have been hammering
him admirably, however. I associate myself fully with #458 in
particular.


Posted by: Jeff B. at August 28, 2011 12:20 PM (D9z3D)

If I'm fucking stupid, what's your brilliant plan? Evidently you agree that Islam is due from some great reformation and these 1.5 billion Muslims are going to go for it. In what alternate reality does this happen in? And you call me stupid?

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 12:34 PM (GZitp)

552 Ace,

All this leads up to the essential question we all need to know:

Are you and Pam Gellar fucking yet?

Posted by: section9 at August 28, 2011 12:34 PM (H6lGz)

553 Is Islam "a" religion of peace? Or is it "the" religion of peace?

Posted by: cleaningmygun at August 28, 2011 12:39 PM (iwSVR)

554 From # 540: "You know next to nothing about Islam and you stumble about the world like that blithering fool, PG Wodehouse." -- Trey

I'm just curious as to what this is supposed to mean. Are you trying to sound smart, and simply managed to confuse an author with one of his characters, or do you really feel that P.G. Wodehouse, one of the most brilliant writers of the English language ever to have lived, was a blithering fool?

Posted by: TH at August 28, 2011 12:46 PM (rvJrw)

555 @537: Well, shit, sometimes I'd rather live in a Muslim nation than an athiest nation anyhow
No you wouldn't.

Posted by: cleaningmygun at August 28, 2011 12:51 PM (iwSVR)

556 Merovign (dude,
that's gotta be a misspelling, right?) and Balrog have been hammering
him admirably, however. I associate myself fully with #458 in
particular.


Posted by: Jeff B. at August 28, 2011 12:20 PM (D9z3D)

And to top it off, people like you and Merovign, Balrog and even Maetenloch are worse then Geller and Spencer in their misrepresentation of what people are actually proposing. Nobody and I mean nobody on this thread proposed genocide or extermination yet you keep pushing for people to argue against the strawman you created, it's pathetic.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 12:51 PM (GZitp)

557 1: If you want to check out Kratman's book Caliphate (which, BTW, is not in any way, shape, or form pro-Islam or pro-Left), you can get a 6$ DRM-free electronic version from Baen books: http://www.webscription.net/p-748-caliphate.aspx

I think most of the people here would like most of Kratman's books. I know I do.

2: It's really sad to see Geller and Spencer self-immolate like this. I want to like both of them, but I refuse to be stupid. And what they're pushing in the case is, at the least, stupid.

3: Pam's doctored quote: make makes it obviously dishonest is the way she got rid of the "the". You'd expect a sentence like that to begins with "The Prophet Mohammed", not "Prophet Mohammed". However, to keep the "the" should would either have had to doctor the "the", or else start it "[T]he Prophet Mohammed". That might have made readers curious about what she'd cur from the beginning of the sentence.

That, to my mind, takes this from "sloppy" to "dishonest".

Posted by: Greg Q at August 28, 2011 01:15 PM (U8vES)

558 Pam Geller isjust Charles Johnson in drag.

Posted by: OCBill at August 28, 2011 01:15 PM (MiSre)

559 >>>I guess that ace would think that, if a guy in India created a new political ideology based on communism, but taking George Washington as his Prophet and claiming Washignton D.C. as a Holy City, then this new George Washington COmmunism (thought up by someone who had no interaction with America, Americans, or the structure of our nation and our culture) would "consider[] it part of, the successor to and culmination of" the United States. Not quite. Picking out famous people and well known texts to steal, pervert and claim as ones own is not indicative of a "succesor" or the "culmination". It is the confusion that a few names and labels lead people like ace to assume 'same name, same meaning', which is pure silliness.

You are a truly stupid man and always have been.

When I tell you what MUSLIMS BELIEVE, specifically writing "Hey, it's obvious I'm telling you what Muslims believe, not endorsing that belief as true," you get from that:

"Ace is saying this Muslim belief is true."

No, I expressly said I'm not saying it's true. I explictitly said "This is what they believe."

You are a moron. You always have been. No wonder you buy into every moronic conspiracy theory a demagogue you follow like a puppy tosses to you like a tennis ball.

Go to Geller's site and stay there. She's your speed. Like you, she thinks if a man simply says "Here is what these other people believe, and I am expressly saying I don't believe this" that means, bizarrely, he's actually saying he believes this.

Good bye, progress. This site is too smart for you. Find a stupid, conspiracy-theory site where you can practice your mentally-challenged Birtherism & Bircherism.

Oh wait you already found that site. So go with God.

Oh, by the way, when I say Go with God I mean the Judeo Christian God and not the Islamic one, a statement you will now most likely interpret as "ace just told me to bow to Allah."

Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 01:25 PM (nj1bB)

560 Dear Ace,
Can I bear your children?

Posted by: Mrs. Robert Spencer at August 28, 2011 01:32 PM (GDejw)

561 >>>You want to bitch fight with Pamela, go ahead. But don't drag Sarah Palin into it. She has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with this.

Sure, Philip. We should all believe that if Perry gives a speech at Norquist's ATR tax rallies, that means Perry is a dhimmi, but if Palin shakes his hand on the way to give a speech at Norquist's ATR tax rally, that means nothing.

We know speaking at a Norquist ATR panel makes Perry a dhimmi, but it doesn't make Palin a dhimmi.

Suuuuuure.

Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 01:35 PM (nj1bB)

562 Is that a yes or a no?

Posted by: Mrs. Robert Spencer at August 28, 2011 01:40 PM (GDejw)

563 Ace, I read you every day, and I read Pamela and Robert every day as well. Have done so for about three years.

I score it:

Geller 1

Spencer 1

Ace 0

You blew it, buddy.

Posted by: xymbaline at August 28, 2011 01:42 PM (mV0QZ)

564 xymbaline,

Why'd she have to fake a quote?

Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 01:43 PM (nj1bB)

565 gellar -- 1

the truth -- 0

Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 01:43 PM (nj1bB)

566 For the Record:

Robert Spencer is Roman Catholic.

and what's up with the Anti-Jewish comments here?

Good God people! Get over yourselves. Nice to see the REAL Anti-Semites coming out.

Posted by: Pat in Michigan (Yes, that one!) at August 28, 2011 01:45 PM (Z9ZMs)

567 Maybe that's a "maybe"?

Posted by: Mrs. Robert Spencer at August 28, 2011 01:45 PM (GDejw)

568 And to top it off, people like you and Merovign, Balrog and even Maetenloch are worse then Geller and Spencer in their misrepresentation of what people are actually proposing. Nobody and I mean nobody on this thread proposed genocide or extermination yet you keep pushing for people to argue against the strawman you created, it's pathetic.
Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 12:51 PM (GZitp)

Well, add that to the list of abvious and complete lies you told about me that, when I ask you to go back and prove, you will instead repeat and call me names, *AGAIN*.

Are you CAPABLE OF TELLING THE TRUTH?!?!

You still have to go back and your previous lies about me, or, you know, just keep lying you disingenuous prick.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 01:50 PM (bxiXv)

569 You still have to go back and your previous lies
about me, or, you know, just keep lying you disingenuous prick.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 01:50 PM
(bxiXv)

I'm not the one lying, I have never misrepresented you. How can you with a straight face accuse me of lying when you consistently claim I'm for extermination and genocide? You're unbelievable, it's like you live in opposite world.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 01:54 PM (GZitp)

570 and what's up with the Anti-Jewish comments here?

Good God people! Get over yourselves. Nice to see the REAL Anti-Semites coming out.
Posted by: Pat in Michigan (Yes, that one!) at August 28, 2011 01:45 PM (Z9ZMs)

It's like there's some gene that's triggered in blog commenters when their ox gets gored that makes them incapable of honesty.

Go ahead, back that statement up. Or just, you know, keep being a liar.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 01:55 PM (bxiXv)

571 I'm not the one lying, I have never misrepresented you. How can you with a straight face accuse me of lying when you consistently claim I'm for extermination and genocide? You're unbelievable, it's like you live in opposite world.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 01:54 PM (GZitp)

Go ahead and show where I claimed that. If you're not lying, it should be easy, just quote me saying that about you. Easy-peasy.

Or, you know, just keep on lying!

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 01:58 PM (bxiXv)

572 I would rather pluck my eyes out than read all that. No, I'd rather put my head in a vise like Tony Spilotro did that dude in "Casino" and pop my eyes out than read all that. Iguess I'dreally rather not read all that, is what I'm saying.

Posted by: Rich Fader at August 28, 2011 01:59 PM (SF/wy)

573 Aceprotests too much. Wonder why? His statements are clear to the casual observer. I loved his statement on the causes of the Crusades, but what else can one expect of a fan of PC textbooks and the Daily Show

Posted by: Molon Labe at August 28, 2011 01:59 PM (e36+G)

574 I see that AoSHQ is online again. I gave up trying to post or reload about 30 minutes after comment 468 was posted.
But this thread is still going.This is one of thise cases where, even though conventional wisdom says no",cups should be worn.

Posted by: Arbalest at August 28, 2011 02:01 PM (eUdJ+)

575 It's like there's some gene that's triggered in blog
commenters when their ox gets gored that makes them incapable of
honesty.



Go ahead, back that statement up. Or just, you know, keep being a liar.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 01:55 PM
(bxiXv)

Are you so fucking unaware of your own dishonesty or do you really believe that shit? Or is it because you realized the absurdity of your own position on the Great Reformation of Islam that you have to distort what really happened here? Either way, it's you that's lying, both to yourself and everyone else.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:01 PM (GZitp)

576 Trey Cannon is Robert Spencer in drag.

Just sayin'.


Posted by: Dick Nixon at August 28, 2011 02:02 PM (KM0sz)

577 467
Anyone who seriously argues in favor of ethnic cleansing, however
benign, is essentially arguing in favor of tyranny.





Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 28, 2011 03:57 AM (9CM5J)





I'm pretty sure they would manage to get me on the list *somehow*.
Probably right after the Mormons.



Hell, I already outed myself as a Sabian, that's pretty fuckin' obscure,
we don't need them Sabian freaks! Out they go!



I'm sure I believe *something* sufficiently offensive, or if they can
find another one *he'll* believe something offensive and then I can be a
"carrier."

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 04:00 AM
(bxiXv)

>Go ahead, back that statement up. Or just, you know,
keep being a liar.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 01:55 PM
(bxiXv)


There you go, your own fucking words you lying sack of shit.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:06 PM (GZitp)

578 Are you so fucking unaware of your own dishonesty or do you really believe that shit? Or is it because you realized the absurdity of your own position on the Great Reformation of Islam that you have to distort what really happened here? Either way, it's you that's lying, both to yourself and everyone else.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:01 PM (GZitp)

All you have to do is prove your hysterical accusations. But you can't, so you'll keep repeating them hoping that someday, someone uncritical or stupid will believe you.

Because everyone else can spend a minute going back through the thread and see that you're lying.

Go ahead, your browser has a search feature.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 02:11 PM (bxiXv)

579 Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 02:11 PM
(bxiXv)

Unfuck'nbelievable, you really are that self deluded.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:15 PM (GZitp)

580 There you go, your own fucking words you lying sack of shit.

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:06 PM (GZitp)

Okay, now, explain to me exactly which of your lies that's supposed to support?

Was I talking about you specifically? No.

Is ethnic cleansing the same as genocide? I know some people use that as a euphemism for that, but it's always been defined as "forcible removal of a people from a territory."

For that definition it would cover you, even though the comment wasn't about you.

See, not *everything* is about you, even though you want it to be.

So, once again, you've hurled the false accusation.

Did you seriously read that and believe it proved something? That's pretty fucking weak.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 02:15 PM (bxiXv)

581 Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 02:15 PM
(bxiXv)

Oh my mistake, when people talk about ethnic cleansing they aren't really talking genocide they're talking about deportation of course. Well not in this reality but the one you made up in your mind. How fucking stupid are you?

Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:19 PM (GZitp)

582 Eggzactly, troyriser, you nailed it in #550. You'll note that not a single one of Geller and Spencer's defenders on this thread has yet to try to address the most pertinent component of the gensis of this controversy: the disturbing sleight-of-hand fraud Geller evidently committed in order to smear Perry.

Ace pretty fairly and effectively eviscerates the woefully wobbly logic upon which Geller Spencer predicate their phony guilty-by-tangential-association condemnation of Perry.

But by also revealing the mitigating portion of the quote from the Aga Khan-sponsored seminar's syllabus which Gellar had very carefully excised in order to deceive her readers and falsely induce them to arrive at her conclusion that Rick Perry is a dyed-in-the-wool dhimmi, he has shown her - at least to me - untrustworthy in everything she has previously written about the jihadists and their useful idiot dhimmi-wannabe ROP-ers renders irredeemably suspect everything she ever writes about it or any other subject every again, no matter how accurate she may otherwise be!

Even in its manipulated state the altered quote from the syllabus which she fraudulently presents to her readers as 'evidence' against Rick Perry can impugn him only in the eyes of the most hysterical - and selectively inflamed - of blind paranoiacs.

But that she further doesn't seem to have the slightest recognition that her deceitful action here has, as you suggested, irrevocably undermined her credibility everywhere else does not reflect well on the clarity of her judgment generally even if she weren't so inclined to deceive her readers ever again.

Indeed this controversy offers pretty persuasive evidence of how clean Perry must actually be on this issue if Geller Spencer, with all of their accumulated knowledge and all of the creditable resources they have developed which are immediately available to them, have been reduced to deliberately manipulating random passages of the freaking summary of an Aga Khan-sponsored seminary on the history of Islam which had merely been offered to some of Texas' locally supervised teachers, just to bolster the possibility that their readers would find those teachers' Governor guilty of voluntary dhimmitude in the most absurdly far-fetched way.

Posted by: leilani at August 28, 2011 02:22 PM (MI7Jw)

583 Ace,
A bit long to get your point accross.

Posted by: Skip at August 28, 2011 02:25 PM (RIVar)

584 oops that should be seminar in last graph of #582.

[NO, the Governor of Texas is not sending public school teachers to Muslim seminaries.] ;-)

Posted by: leilani at August 28, 2011 02:26 PM (MI7Jw)

585 Posted by: ace at August 28, 2011 01:25 PM (nj1bB)
For my final post:
muslims do not consider themselves (you see, ace, "consider themselves", as you were arguing) to be " the successor to and culmination of, the Judeo-Christian tradition". muslims consider - from their point of view - that Jews and Christians were offered the truth, but rejected it (because they are evil people) and have never even attempted to follow "the truth" but to lie to the world about it. This is what you will find if you ever read the koran.This is qualitatively different than Christianity having grown out of Judaism, as a product of Jews and accepting the Torah, only with the caveat that Jesus fulfilled the covenant and presented a new one. islam shares none of this and is nothing even remotely the same. It merely stole from Judaism and Christianity in order to grab some immediate legitimacy.
Of course, this was said in my comments that you didn't understand so I don't expect that this simpler explanation to do any better. You should be careful how you throw the word "stupid" around.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at August 28, 2011 02:31 PM (F5tJy)

586 Lowandslow, what is your step 2?

1) deport all Muslim

2) ???????

3) peace

Posted by: Lauren at August 28, 2011 02:32 PM (VKD8C)

587 tl:rh;lgj

Too long, read half, Little Green Juggs

Posted by: Darin H at August 28, 2011 02:34 PM (3kW1y)

588 Oh my mistake, when people talk about ethnic cleansing they aren't really talking genocide they're talking about deportation of course. Well not in this reality but the one you made up in your mind. How fucking stupid are you?
Posted by: lowandslow at August 28, 2011 02:19 PM (GZitp)

It's the definition of the phrase, I'm sorry if reality offends you. Genocide is the attempt to kill all of a people as defined by race/culture, Ethnic Cleansing is an attempt to remove such a people from a region by force.

It's hardly my fault if some people don't know what words mean.

Secondly, as I said, NOT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT YOU. When two other people are talking, they aren't always talking about you. And, in case that isn't clear, not everything is about you.

I'm sorry your parents didn't tell you that, but what can you do?

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 02:34 PM (bxiXv)

589 If you fake quotes, like Pam did, then you lose, you should apologize, and you should shut up. If you thought your point was strong, you wouldn't have to fake quotes. If you looked at the quote, and then thought to yourself, "This quote isn't as outrageous as I need it to be...what if I left out these words?" then you are insulting your readers' intelligence, debasing the exchange of ideas, and you are lying.

Come on, Ace, don't sweat the one-issue fringers. People like Geller and Spencer won't be happy with a candidate unless the first plank on his (her) platform involves gas showers and exciting new brown lampshade materials. Whether it's from righteous pro-Israel/anti-Islamist fervor, pro-Palin hysteria, or blog-business shrewdness, it ends up with an unelectable candidate and four more Obama years.

Posted by: Sterling Archer at August 28, 2011 02:53 PM (1H47k)

590
Come on 600!
Meanwhile, I'm wondering...do Aga Khan's always have access to the office of the Governor of Texas, or is this something new?9/11, Afgan Taliban,intel needs(with troops on the ground), access to loads of bank records. Maybe I'm just seeing a silly conspiracy theory.
Geller - read a couple times concerning Geert Wilders. Saw a bikini vid...Nice rack???guys, please, you really think she'd fix you a sammich after??? Morons still have standards.
Spencer - I'd come to expect better, more thorough, research/analysis. Lately(6 mos or so), more innuendo as fact.
Ace - Meek RINO by his own admission, I agree(WHEN HE SAYS SOMETHIN' AGAINST MY CANDIDATE)! What? Ace likes Perry? Oh... Ace is a stallwart conservative and a pillar of the community.

Posted by: Tantorus Maximus at August 28, 2011 03:03 PM (eWQpH)

591 586 Lowandslow, what is your step 2?

Posted by: Lauren at August 28, 2011 02:32 PM (VKD8C)

Well, unlike some people, I'm not going to put words in anyone's mouths, he'd have to answer that question himself.

I just don't see what seems to be people thinking through what happens next, like you're asking.

If you're going to deport all Muslims, does that include people who have been declared apostates because they refuse to accept violent jihad, but still call themselves "Muslim?" What about people who claim to have converted to Christianity? Under Sharia law, Muslims engaged in Jihad can lie about their faith... do you just deport anyone from majority-Mulsim nations?

And what about Muslims from Europe or other minority-Muslim nations?

And that doesn't even begin to address domestic resistance to such an idea, not just from Liberals but from all Civil Libertarians, and a hell of a lot of people who don't fall into those boxes but just don't like the idea of mass legal sanction without trial.

Then we get to the consequences, right now, while a lot of money is covertly flowing out of US Muslim communities to help the Jihadis, not that much actual violent activity is happening here - so deporting everyone doesn't really reduce aggregate violence much, even if you assume expansionist Islamic regimes will stop expanding, mysteriously.

So they keep blowing shit up, chopping heads off, whatever turns them on. Piracy probably increases, definitely border conflicts.

Leave Pakistan's nukes out of the equation for a moment, what do we do about Europe? They have a much bigger issue with Islamic immigration and enclaves than we do. And so far, they don't seem interested, as nations, in anything like the proposed solution.

Do we try to "help" them against their will? Yeah, that couldn't go wrong? Or maybe wait and see if they collapse - with all their myriad nuclear warheads.

I certainly don't have all the answers, but I know a stupid question when I see one. It is probably the biggest problem we face in the modern world, and ill-thought solutions are a huge waste of time at least, and actively helping people who just want to watch the world burn at worst.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:10 PM (bxiXv)

592 Spencer - I'd come to expect better, more thorough, research/analysis. Lately(6 mos or so), more innuendo as fact.

Posted by: Tantorus Maximus at August 28, 2011 03:03 PM (eWQpH)

I was also puzzled by the character of the response. I used to read SPencer a *lot* but only commented at JW occasionally.. but I haven't looked at more than a few links there in the last 6 mos.

Maybe it's JihadFatigue, I don't know.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:13 PM (bxiXv)

593 Ah, that's what happened, new thread with the word "Geller" in it up.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:14 PM (bxiXv)

594 Again, what was the name of the movie?

Posted by: observer at August 28, 2011 03:18 PM (VzVQP)

595 528
"Are Geller and Spencer not both Jewish? If so, do they also practice their religion according to the old laws? Are they slaughtering the fatted goat on Fridays according to Kosher laws? Do they follow the Torah according to how it was written taken literally? If so, are they not in violation of some U.S. laws?
"....They also fail to mention that Frank Gaffney's group, Center for Security Policy, has defended Perry and that Daniel Pipes wrote this on his web site:
"I agree with you that Geller's attack on Perry is irresponsible. The Aga Khan is a leading anti-Islamist figure and Perry's connection to Grover Norquist is taxation, not Islam."
Are we to next read from Geller/Spencer that Daniel Pipes is a Sha'ria supporting "dhimmi?" Are they willing to go on the record bashing Pipes?
Posted by: zane at August 28, 2011 11:13 AM
Zane, Iposted (on Pipes' blog)that- in Perry's defense - his distinction between Norquist's activism in behalf of Muslim Brotherhood ('stealth')jihadists and his anti-tax activism was irresponsible. Pipes (or his moderator) did not publish my comment as he usually does. What does that tell you about Dr.Pipes? By the way, Spencer is Catholic? Geller is Jewish.

Posted by: Steve at August 28, 2011 03:28 PM (tPKdT)

596
Hope it's just fatigue, that happens to everyone.
Thanks for the tip on the new thread.
Still hoping for 600+ here...just because, no better reason.

Posted by: Tantorus Maximus at August 28, 2011 03:35 PM (eWQpH)

597 Five hunnred an' niney-seben...

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:39 PM (bxiXv)

598 Five hunnred an' niney-ate...

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:39 PM (bxiXv)

599 Five hunnred an' niney-nine...

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at August 28, 2011 03:39 PM (bxiXv)

600 Zane (#52 wrote: "Geller/Spencer... also fail to mention that Frank Gaffney's group, Center for Security Policy, has defended Perry and that Daniel Pipes wrote this on his web site:
"I agree with you that Geller's attack on Perry is irresponsible. The Aga Khan is a leading anti-Islamist figure and Perry's connection to Grover Norquist is taxation, not Islam."
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Perhaps you read the Spiegel interview with Aga Khan?
Aga Khan: We should do everything to help him (President Karzai). He has an enomously complex agenda to deal with. He is our best hope. And besides, he is the elected leader and we have to work with the parliament.
SPIEGEL: Even if warlords and a former members of the Taliban are represented in Afghanistan's parliament?
Aga Khan: You either accept the results of democracy or you don’t. Otherwise you talk about qualifying democracy.

SPIEGEL: That means the West should deal with the radical Islamist Hamas as well?
Aga Khan: You have to work with whoever the population has elected as long as they are willing to respect what I call cosmopolitan ethics (What are cosmopolitan ethics? Are they found in the Qur'an? -Steve). Now, it’s true that Hamas has a record of conflict ...
SPIEGEL: ... of outright terror ...
Aga Khan: ... but it would not be the only time that movements that have such a record make it into parliament, and even end up in charge of government later on.

Posted by: Steve at August 28, 2011 03:46 PM (tPKdT)

601 Sorry Ace, but Spencer is right, you do not know much about that which you speak of about regarding Islam... get over it, get informed, or stfu!

Posted by: CitizenHill at August 28, 2011 04:41 PM (w4+WA)

602 CitizenHill: sorry, I can't let the last comment in this thread be from an idiot. This discussion is not about Islam, but rather about the hysterical accusations and misrepresentations of P. Geller and R. Spencer regarding Gov. Perry, Grover Nordquist, and about a zillion other honorable people who actually aren't trying to convert us all to Islam. Whether you are a troll or a sockpuppet isn't really significant; in either case, however, you fail at your self-assigned mission of Ace-denigration, through the puerility of your putative argument.

Posted by: TH at August 28, 2011 06:16 PM (rvJrw)

603 I'm at a real disadvantage on this topic.

As a social studies teacher here in Texas, I actually know what we are required to teach here in Texas, and it isn't the crap that Geller and Spencer talk about.

Yes, our materials are neutral/friendly in how they present the origins of Islam -- but the same is true regarding the beginnings of Judaism, Christianity and Buddhism, just as an example.

But trust me -- we teachers are not required to proselytize for Islam, nor do we.

Posted by: Rhymes With Right at August 28, 2011 09:12 PM (V6CQ0)

604 #603

BS. One only need look at a the schools in Houston and El Paso to see course materials that are extreme. Maybe these are only local and maybe they aren't Islamic but they are racist. They are reflective of a culture that exists in faculty lounges.

As for Ace, as a president said it "depends on the definition os is, is." It seems we are in Oliver Willis territory now and verging on LGF.

Posted by: Molon Labe at August 29, 2011 05:15 PM (e36+G)

605 It seems we are in Oliver Willis territory now and verging on LGF.

You are welcome to depart anytime, ML.

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