Obama To Speak At 8:40 EDT

Above the post update:

Obama say leaders have agreed to $1 trillion in cuts, which were agreed to weeks ago. Cuts "won't be so" abrupt. Yeah, out years are for suckers.

Bi-partisan committee that reports by November. "Everything will be on the table"... there's the tax trap? I don't see how House GOP votes for that if the choice will be the possibility of taxes or slash defense. Unless there's some guarantee that won't happen, I don't see how this gets enough GOP votes in the House.

Via Andy...here's the PDF of the PowerPoint Boehner used to explain the plan to his conference.

Or not? From Boehner PP.

Requires baseline to be current law, effectively making it impossible for Joint Committee to increase taxes.

That from TendStl on Twitter.

The only person who is going to like this deal is Obama because he desperately wants to put off another debt hike debate beyond the '12 elections.

Via Hot Air, James Pethokoukis explains why insisting that current law be the baseline the joint committee uses makes it almost impossible for them to raise taxes.


Original Post:

For the love of God man...SHUT UP.

Reid is on Senate floor now (8:32pm edt) saying there's a deal to avoid default. McConnell says he'll be holding a Senate GOP caucus tomorrow to go over "the framework".

Obama will no doubt be out to start to take credit.

Meanwhile, Boehner is on a conference call right now with House GOP members. I bet that's a fun call.

I really hope Obama uses his speech tonight to reach out and repair relations with corporate jet owners.

Posted by: DrewM. at 08:30 PM



Comments

1 And the congregation says..... Amen.

Posted by: Truck Monkey at July 31, 2011 08:32 PM (yQWNf)

2
He's stepping on my stories network news!

Posted by: Comrade Arthur at July 31, 2011 08:32 PM (/62i9)

3 If all you have is hammer, everything looks like a nail.

And if you don't even have a hammer, everything looks like an occasion for a speech.

Posted by: Brown Line at July 31, 2011 08:33 PM (DK79s)

4 I'm glad I don't watch TV anymore.

Posted by: CanaDave at July 31, 2011 08:33 PM (z+X8V)

5 for cripes sakes.. good thing I watch True Blood at that time which won't be pre-empted.. he just likes ot hear himself babble..

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at July 31, 2011 08:33 PM (Wm4Mf)

6 Is he gonna try to scare us again? I am so damn tired of it all, especially him. I almost joined Twitter just so I could follow him and then dump him saying how much his tweets offended me.


Posted by: Cynthia at July 31, 2011 08:33 PM (lhhNH)

7 And the Nikkei opened higher with "optimism over the U.S. debt."

To anyone who questions whether we remain THE superpower: Suck it!

Posted by: As IF... at July 31, 2011 08:34 PM (piMMO)

8 You have a really nice blog here and the many comments are very interesting.

Posted by: iSpambooks starting early , bitches! at July 31, 2011 08:34 PM (hbAPu)

9 I wonder what last-minute surprise he has for the Republicans who thought they had a deal? If hepulls that shit, they have to go on the air 24/7 and shout it out - this man cannot be trusted and he must not be re-elected. Make it about the election right fucking now.

Posted by: sherlock at July 31, 2011 08:34 PM (thr9V)

10 Aw fuck,it's a total bend over by the GOP,I bet.

Posted by: steevy at July 31, 2011 08:35 PM (FQFjX)

11 ZZZZZZZZZZZZ....

People are tuning out and his approval numbers show it.

Posted by: DeusExMachina at July 31, 2011 08:35 PM (6RTwM)

12 "Hail Caesar! We who are about to die salute you!"

Posted by: knob at July 31, 2011 08:35 PM (44Bsd)

13 I feel the breath of doom on my neck.

Posted by: toby928™ at July 31, 2011 08:35 PM (GTbGH)

14
He's going to announce that the Seals have shot D. B. Cooper.

Posted by: NCC at July 31, 2011 08:35 PM (lDsmT)

15 7 Our debt continues to be ginormous.Any deal reached will change nothing.What the fuck are these market people smoking??

Posted by: steevy at July 31, 2011 08:36 PM (FQFjX)

16 If your only tool is a hammer every problem looks like it can be solved by beating people with a hammer.
don't remember which moron said that first.

Posted by: Lemmiwinks at July 31, 2011 08:36 PM (54F2e)

17
Just in time to have the last 20 minutes of some of those last 8:00 PM and 8:30 PM shows cut off.
That'll endear him further to the masses....
Time to go listen to the idiot.

Posted by: Stateless Infidel at July 31, 2011 08:36 PM (GKQDR)

18 He considers national TV his personal soapbox.

Posted by: CanaDave at July 31, 2011 08:37 PM (z+X8V)

19 I'm glad my dad isn't around to see this. Last time he got really pissed off at a politician on TV, he shot the TV.

Posted by: Taxpayer at July 31, 2011 08:37 PM (NpmCe)

20 9 I hope he pulls that,saves us from a shit deal.No such luck probably.

Posted by: steevy at July 31, 2011 08:37 PM (FQFjX)

21 The Obama speeches will continue until morale improves.

Posted by: Carney at July 31, 2011 08:38 PM (H3jYe)

22 For the love of God man...SHUT UP.


I literally laughed out loud. A-freaking-men.

Posted by: Ms Choksondik at July 31, 2011 08:38 PM (sVk8z)

23 So if that's 8:40 eastern, does that really mean 8:40, or maybe 9 or 9:15? And if I'm in the central time zone how does that translate? HELP ME!

Posted by: Big Zesty at July 31, 2011 08:38 PM (L83nQ)

24 I blame those TEA party people--Zero didn't speechify so much before they tried to limit his cocaine spending habit.

Posted by: Hrothgar at July 31, 2011 08:39 PM (yrGif)

25 He's going to announce that the Seals have shot D. B. Cooper.
lol

Posted by: Wooga at July 31, 2011 08:39 PM (I0RBv)

26 21The Obama speeches will continue until morale improves.
Posted by: Carney at July 31, 2011 08:38 PM (H3jYe) *snort* hahaha

Posted by: knob at July 31, 2011 08:39 PM (44Bsd)

27 I really need to know when he's going to speak. I have to vomit but I'm holding it

Posted by: Big Zesty at July 31, 2011 08:40 PM (L83nQ)

28 When can I talk?

Posted by: Debbie Wasserman Schultz at July 31, 2011 08:40 PM (v/laJ)

29 Aye carumba.

Posted by: rdbrewer at July 31, 2011 08:40 PM (e7G9N)

30 Anyone know how long the debt limit rise will take us? I've been actually enjoying my weekend for a change by unplugging til now and I am so behind. I picked the wrong weekend to take a break from my addiction to news.

Posted by: Ms Choksondik at July 31, 2011 08:41 PM (sVk8z)

31 He's going to say that he can celebrate Ramad...er..his birthday soon because there will be a deal.

Posted by: jjshaka at July 31, 2011 08:41 PM (1c5z6)

32 He's a Dick.

Posted by: Oldsailors poet at July 31, 2011 08:41 PM (ZDUD4)

33 Yahoo has it up as breaking news 'Obama, lawmakers strike deal to avoid default'

Posted by: Red Shirt at July 31, 2011 08:41 PM (FIDMq)

34 It's worth repeating...For the love of God, STFU.

Posted by: mpfs at July 31, 2011 08:42 PM (3TjSM)

35 I hope they use that wacky camera lens again.

Posted by: rdbrewer at July 31, 2011 08:42 PM (e7G9N)

36 I'm glad my dad isn't around to see this. Last time he got really pissed off at a politician on TV, he shot the TV.
Posted by: Taxpayer at July 31, 2011 08:37 PM (NpmCe)
One of the horde recently told us that the only thing saving his giant flat screen was the basket of Nerf balls he kept nearby.

Posted by: RushBabe at July 31, 2011 08:42 PM (Ew27I)

37 21
The Obama speeches will continue until morale improves.


Posted by: Carney at July 31, 2011 08:38 PM (H3jYe)

Bwahahahah... ok.. that made me snort.

Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at July 31, 2011 08:42 PM (qjUnn)

38 Funhouse Obama!

Posted by: rdbrewer at July 31, 2011 08:42 PM (e7G9N)

39 Do you hear that, Mr. Anderson? It's the sound of inevitability. It is the sound of your death. Goodbye, Mr. Anderson.


Posted by: Collapsy the debt clown at July 31, 2011 08:42 PM (0f7gD)

40 FILIBUSTER THAT BITCH!!!
And then stop the bill, too.

Posted by: Rich at July 31, 2011 08:43 PM (OX4OZ)

41


ChadPergram












House GOP whip meeting Monday
at 10 am. To get a sense of where the votes are.


JRubinBlogger












getting details of a "fix" on
defense cuts that gets negotiators past the last hurdle.. more soon..

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 08:43 PM (o2lIv)

42 Last time he got really pissed off at a politician on TV, he shot the TV.
Yeah. That Herbert Hoover was awful.

Posted by: vp joe 'the genius' biden at July 31, 2011 08:43 PM (oUG6f)

43 It's a new cooking show and he's going to explain what's in a sugar-coated Satan sandwich...

Posted by: Popcorn at July 31, 2011 08:43 PM (yHwLH)

44
This fool knows only one thing and that is how to shoot off his mouth and say nothing. And now he's going to prove me right.

Posted by: sherlock at July 31, 2011 08:43 PM (thr9V)

45 Heck, let him talk. Every sentence drops his favorable rating a tenth of a point.

Posted by: DriveBy at July 31, 2011 08:43 PM (C9Vc8)

46 19
I'm glad my dad isn't around to see this. Last time he got really pissed off at a politician on TV, he shot the TV.

Posted by: Taxpayer at July 31, 2011 08:37 PM

Damn tv had it comin'

Posted by: Elvis at July 31, 2011 08:43 PM (Y+DPZ)

47
Let me be perfectly clear, like I was the other four, (look left)
or was it five, times before. (Look right)
Rich people are buying corporate jets, (look left)
with hedge funds, (look right)
when there should be shared sacrifice, (look left)
in raising the debt ceiling, (look right)
before my birthday party. (Look left)
As I have said before (look right)
there are those who would hold (look left)
our country hostage(look right)
to our country living within its budget.(Look left)
How can that be possible (look right)
when we don't have a budget?

Posted by: Barack Obama, guilty of more than 50, 000 counts of strawmanslaughter at July 31, 2011 08:44 PM (hbAPu)

48 Why are they bailing out Obama for 2012 election? Why are they letting him skate past it with such a huge debt ceiling increase!!!???

Posted by: Dan at July 31, 2011 08:44 PM (mXBxH)

49 Oh goody! Class warfare, anyone?

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at July 31, 2011 08:44 PM (HjxoE)

50 Is he gonna try to scare us again?
Are you scared now?

Posted by: Achmed the Dead Terrorist at July 31, 2011 08:44 PM (Ew27I)

51 A Trillion dollar cut over ten years? That's an $8 trillion increase! Stop this shit NOW!

Posted by: Countrysquire at July 31, 2011 08:44 PM (/GzDz)

52 Proposed deal update:

* $900 billion in the first stage of deficit reduction.
* $1.5
trillion in second stage of deficit reduction to be defined by a
bipartisan special committee of lawmakers appointed by leaders of the
House and Senate.
* If the special committee fails to deliver a
deficit-cutting package that would trigger $1.2 trillion in cuts, half
would be Defense cuts and the other half would be non-Defense cuts,
exempting low-income programs Social Security and Medicaid, and only
impacting providers in Medicare.
* The debt ceiling increase would
be done in three phases: $400 billion initially; another $500 billion
later thise year would be subject to a vote of disapproval; a third
increase of $1.5 to get the rest through 2012 and would also be subject
to vote of disapproval.
* There is also a provision to have
Congress vote on balanced budget amendment.


Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 08:45 PM (o2lIv)

53 Just in time to have the last 20 minutes of some of those last 8:00 PM and 8:30 PM shows cut off.
The Cleveland Show is still on.

Posted by: As IF... at July 31, 2011 08:45 PM (piMMO)

54 The Obama speeches will continue until morale improves.
Morale will improve when there are no more Obama speeches.

catcha22

Posted by: Tesla at July 31, 2011 08:45 PM (DPU1J)

55 what I got out of that is "Yipee I won, I won"

Posted by: curious at July 31, 2011 08:45 PM (k1rwm)

56 I'm not watching......Is he being a dick yet?

Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at July 31, 2011 08:45 PM (qjUnn)

57 Jaysus.
Tell him he's a dude and doesn't have to tell us each time he has a cramp. Or someone upset him.
Nothing new will be said.

Posted by: Who Knows at July 31, 2011 08:45 PM (1cx/R)

58 48 Cause they are spineless little weasels,interested only in saving their own worthless hides.

Posted by: steevy at July 31, 2011 08:45 PM (FQFjX)

59 Haha, "most importantly, we don't have to deal with this again in 6 months, or 12 months."

Yeah, we already know Republicans got rolled.

Fuck you, you jug-eared sack of Marxist shit.

Posted by: Waterhouse at July 31, 2011 08:45 PM (P57Q4)

60 "Down payment"

Am I not enough? Are you not entertained?

Posted by: $14.5 trillion debt at July 31, 2011 08:45 PM (0f7gD)

61 Oh screw him....with a corporate jet.

Posted by: Tami at July 31, 2011 08:46 PM (X6akg)

62 Leaders of both parties prevailed, they say. In other words, Americans get fucked.

Posted by: Countrysquire at July 31, 2011 08:46 PM (/GzDz)

63 52 In other words:TOTALLY FUCKING USELESS!!1

Posted by: steevy at July 31, 2011 08:46 PM (FQFjX)

64
"Why are they bailing out Obama for 2012 election?"
They are just giving him enough rope, and I'm pretty sure he will know what to do with it.

Posted by: sherlock at July 31, 2011 08:46 PM (thr9V)

65 Do you hear that, Mr. Anderson? It's the sound of inevitability. It is the sound of your death. Goodbye, Mr. Anderson

OT: Matrix Revolutions just finished on AMC, so I suspect that's why the quote. Boy, did that movie stink.

Posted by: pep at July 31, 2011 08:46 PM (6TB1Z)

66 The very rich are going to get a tax cut.....you know anyone making over $250 grand.

so how come they cut boehner out of the loop?

Posted by: curious at July 31, 2011 08:46 PM (k1rwm)

67 @58 yeah, but, they were winning, duh. I swear, it's like the GOP DC types believe leftwing wishcasting and namecalling.

Posted by: joeindc44 at July 31, 2011 08:46 PM (u9B7L)

68
What the hell? Four minutes.
I've had longer orgasms.
Why even bother?

Posted by: Stateless Infidel at July 31, 2011 08:47 PM (GKQDR)

69 If the special committee fails to deliver a
deficit-cutting package that would trigger $1.2 trillion in cuts, half
would be Defense cuts and the other half would be non-Defense cuts,
exempting low-income programs Social Security and Medicaid, and only
impacting providers in Medicare.

Because Defense is half the problem, amirite?

Fucking ROLLED.

Posted by: Waterhouse at July 31, 2011 08:47 PM (P57Q4)

70 It's a new cooking show and he's going to explain what's in a sugar-coated Satan sandwich...
Now with extra-crunchy horns! Watch out, dental work!

Posted by: Chef Barack at July 31, 2011 08:47 PM (Ew27I)

71 So, basically this is everyone in Washington deciding that the alarm is too loud and they need to hit the snooze button again.

Got it.

Posted by: sifty is Faptain America at July 31, 2011 08:47 PM (ECjvn)

72 Blah, blah, blam, me...I..me...I...blah, blah, blah...corporate jets.....I...my birthday.

What should be the republican response but they won't say it? Fuck you.

Posted by: mpfs at July 31, 2011 08:47 PM (3TjSM)

73 The lies and misinformation regarding this whole saga are pretty epic...SPENDING is the problem assholes...do something about it. F'n status quo giddyup and getalong BS

Posted by: Red Shirt at July 31, 2011 08:47 PM (FIDMq)

74 Hooray! Obama saved Ramadan.

Posted by: Breaker19 at July 31, 2011 08:48 PM (Xt2Jb)

75 72 - proper GOP response - "Everything that guy just said is bullshit. Thank you."

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at July 31, 2011 08:49 PM (HjxoE)

76 Paraphrase:

"We will address the cloud of debt by approving the largest increase in debt in the history of the Republic".

Posted by: Waterhouse at July 31, 2011 08:49 PM (P57Q4)

77 For the love of God man...SHUT UP.

Oh, no, no, no, NO...
The more Comrade Dear Leader talks on TV, disrupting programs and interfering with the viewers' lives, the more likely they will realize that they actually hate his stinking demagoguing guts.

And if he's late, the better.


Posted by: fava beans and a nice chianti at July 31, 2011 08:49 PM (r1b5V)

78 Now is the time to call your congressmen. Have them vote against this crap.

Posted by: Countrysquire at July 31, 2011 08:49 PM (/GzDz)

79 Bread and circuses.


Posted by: sifty is Faptain America at July 31, 2011 08:49 PM (ECjvn)

80 What the hell? Four minutes.I've had longer orgasms.Why even bother?

Posted by: Stateless Infidel

Wait...what?

Posted by: mpfs at July 31, 2011 08:49 PM (3TjSM)

81 Obama is talking about this like it's a done deal and it's not. It will not happen without the votes to make it happen, and Pelosi is not briefing her members until tomorrow.

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 08:49 PM (o2lIv)

82 What the hell? Four minutes.I've had longer orgasms.Why even bother?

Posted by: Stateless Infidel at July 31, 2011 08:47 PM (GKQDR)

I'll have what the Infidel is having.

Posted by: Tami at July 31, 2011 08:50 PM (X6akg)

83 Fuck me gently, with a corporate jet.

Posted by: Heather at July 31, 2011 08:50 PM (HjxoE)

84 November 2010?
-Never heard of it.
XXOO
signed,
the people we elected in November 2010.

Posted by: joeindc44 at July 31, 2011 08:50 PM (u9B7L)

85 I held out hope,HOPE(even though I knew they wouldn't deep down)that the GOP would have the balls to take a stand.Fuck them.Fuck them all.Now they will piss on our heads and tell us it is raining.NO MORE.FUCK THEM.

Posted by: steevy at July 31, 2011 08:51 PM (FQFjX)

86 81 Obama is talking about this like it's a done deal and it's not. It will not happen without the votes to make it happen, and Pelosi is not briefing her members until tomorrow.
Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 08:49 PM (o2lIv)
Now would be a good time to shoot the whole shit down...Dewy defeats Truman!

Posted by: Red Shirt at July 31, 2011 08:51 PM (FIDMq)

87 Rep. Kristi "Nom Nom" Noem will be on Greta tonight at 1020 est

Posted by: Jose at July 31, 2011 08:51 PM (WTNJJ)

88 68

You meant 4 seconds, right?

Posted by: mpfs at July 31, 2011 08:51 PM (3TjSM)

89 If God still loves us, both the conservatives and commies will vote against this.

Posted by: Countrysquire at July 31, 2011 08:52 PM (/GzDz)

90 did we watch the same speech? It's truly a done deal whatever it is. He was thanking the American people for their cards and letters. He was preening.

Posted by: curious at July 31, 2011 08:52 PM (k1rwm)

91 Crumb, I missed this! Did they set the camera two inches off the floor this time, and shoot him looming like Gulliver over the Lilliputians? Maybe they should add some reverb when they're mixing the sound, too.

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at July 31, 2011 08:52 PM (jgkJo)

92 My God he cheapens everything about the office.

Posted by: Larry Dickman at July 31, 2011 08:52 PM (4t9J5)

93 81 Better not happen.Or I'm done.No more votes.No more money.Nothing.

Posted by: steevy at July 31, 2011 08:52 PM (FQFjX)

94 Obama is talking about this like it's a done deal and it's not. It will
not happen without the votes to make it happen, and Pelosi is not
briefing her members until tomorrow.



Because that's what real leadership looks like, don'cha know.

Posted by: BHO at July 31, 2011 08:52 PM (6TB1Z)

95 69
If the special committee fails to
deliver a
deficit-cutting package that would trigger $1.2 trillion in cuts, half
would be Defense cuts and the other half would be non-Defense cuts,
exempting low-income programs Social Security and Medicaid, and only
impacting providers in Medicare.

Because Defense is half
the problem, amirite?

Fucking ROLLED.


They haven't finalized details on that point and a number of members have said they won't vote for the proposal unless this is fixed.

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 08:53 PM (o2lIv)

96 Time (past time) to plan your survival strategy.

This plan is just more of the same...as will be the next, and the next.

Losing m'Bonga and his merry men won't help a bit. By then we'll be another 2 1/2 trillion in the hole. The loyal opposition is just as corrupt and addicted to spending as he is. They will never stop, never. I'm not Eeyore, I'm observant.

Time to start putting your energy to good use. The next elections are too late and too far away. Prepare for the worst...it's coming.

Posted by: trainer at July 31, 2011 08:53 PM (yCWYQ)

97
83 Fuck me gently, with a corporate jet.
Posted by: Heather at July 31, 2011 08:50 PM (HjxoE)
No prob. Call me!

Posted by: Gordon Gecko at July 31, 2011 08:53 PM (L83nQ)

98
89If God still loves us, both the conservatives and commies will vote against this.
But if so only conservatives will have their votes reported in the MFM.

Posted by: sherlock at July 31, 2011 08:53 PM (thr9V)

99
The very rich are going to get a tax cut.....you know anyone making over $250 grand.so how come they cut boehner out of the loop?
What?

Posted by: As IF... at July 31, 2011 08:53 PM (piMMO)

100 Maybe they should add some reverb when they're mixing the sound, too.

Perhaps some lightning bolts to replace the halo.

Posted by: pep at July 31, 2011 08:54 PM (6TB1Z)

101 Obama is talking about this like it's a done deal and it's not.

If we can't trust a part-time lecturer on Marxist theories of the US Constitution at Harvard to understand the legislative process, who can we trust?

Posted by: Waterhouse at July 31, 2011 08:54 PM (P57Q4)

102 Leaders of both parties prevailed, they say.

We must save our phony-baloney jobs gentlemen.

Posted by: Every politician in DC at July 31, 2011 08:54 PM (0f7gD)

103 Really FOX? Huckabee? You have this pinhead on speaking for conservatives?

Posted by: Countrysquire at July 31, 2011 08:54 PM (/GzDz)

104 Calling the commies from California yields a busy signal so far.

Posted by: sifty is Faptain America at July 31, 2011 08:54 PM (ECjvn)

105 So let me get this right, we've passed two bills, held out for weeks and we're going to get a deal worse than the first one we were offered by the whitehouse?

The GOP is a used car salesman's wet dream

Posted by: Ben at July 31, 2011 08:55 PM (DKV43)

106 Did that D*ck Head {tm} say something about the agreement did not deal with entitlement spending "like he wanted"? Did he?

Posted by: DougS at July 31, 2011 08:55 PM (o5yTz)

107 They haven't finalized details on that point and a number of members
have said they won't vote for the proposal unless this is fixed

Did they fix the secret taxes in the Reid deal?

Which version are they reworking - House or Senate? Boehner, Reid, or McConnell?

Posted by: Y-not at July 31, 2011 08:55 PM (5H6zj)

108 Oh, you borrow too much, spend too much, maxed out your card, and now you can't pay the bills without us increasing your card's limit?

You should have said something sooner! Of course we'll up your limit, because we know this close brush with disaster will teach you to be more wise with your finances!

Posted by: Mastercard at July 31, 2011 08:55 PM (H3jYe)

109 a commentator on the capitulation thread, said Chief of staff Mullin went to afghganistan this weekend and told the soldiers their checks to families might not be showing up on time,

Posted by: willow at July 31, 2011 08:55 PM (h+qn8)

110 The presidency has never looked smaller. While at the same time swallowing whole it's current entity. Sigh...

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at July 31, 2011 08:55 PM (HjxoE)

111 afganistan *

Posted by: willow at July 31, 2011 08:55 PM (h+qn8)

112
It is so inspiring to see Democrats and Republicans unite to defeat their common enemy - Conservatives.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 31, 2011 08:56 PM (EeYDk)

113 Boehner to House GOP: "There’s no agreement until we’ve talked to you."

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 08:56 PM (o2lIv)

114 Defense is half the problem? Yup, the world is calm right now, we aren't fighting 3 wars..the Turks are happy little campers, the Iranians are putting daisies in the barrels of their guns and everyone is holding hands like in the Coke commercial.

Naw, we don't need all that money for defense.

Posted by: mpfs at July 31, 2011 08:56 PM (3TjSM)

115 yeah, wow, Boehner folded against a senate that never even showed its cards

Posted by: joeindc44 at July 31, 2011 08:56 PM (u9B7L)

116 105 - The GOP can even screw that up.

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at July 31, 2011 08:56 PM (HjxoE)

117 Hah, Leftie tears are so sweet and abundant!

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 31, 2011 08:56 PM (DEcmU)

118 Call your congressman and tell him not to vote for this shit.
also that's a fucking awful powerpoint

Posted by: Ben at July 31, 2011 08:56 PM (DKV43)

119 Leaders of both parties prevailed, they say.

The last flailings of a wounded, dying animal.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at July 31, 2011 08:57 PM (vbh31)

120 He's going to say that he can celebrate Ramad...er..his birthday soon because there will be a deal.
Lest we forget...This is from Dean M. in a comment at American Thinker.
1) His mother's marriages were to Muslim men. 2) He has a Muslim name. 3) Obama Sr. was a Muslim and his father a Muslim. 4) His step-father was a Muslim. 5) He is a Muslim by Muslim law (the child takes the father's religion). 6) He was registered under the name of Barry Soetoro as a Muslim in a Catholic school in Indonesia, which has the world's largest Muslim population. 7) He said on national TV to George Stephanopoulos (as a supposed slip of tongue), "My Muslim faith." He told a reporter that the prettiest sound at sunset to him is the Muslim call to prayer. 9) Herecited it to the reporter"with a perfect Arabic accent." 10) As President he bowed at the waist to the King of Saud, Guardian of Mecca.
11) His travels abroad as a student were to Muslim countrieswith Muslim friends. 12) The church he joined was pastored by Jeremiah Wright, a formerBlack Muslim. 13) His churchgave Black Muslim leader, Louis Farrakhan a Lifetime Achievement Award. 14) As a Senator he went toKenya tocampaign for Raila Odinga, who supports the establishment of Sharia law for Muslims in Kenya. 15) He always refers to the Koran as the "Holy Quran." 16) There is no record (that I'm aware of) that he underwent Christian baptism. 17) He doesn'tallow the exchangeof Christmas gifts to celebrate Christmas in his family.(The Christmas tree is called a "holiday tree.") 1All the people he claims as relatives in Kenya are Muslim. 19) He botched his swearing in on the Bible andhad a second ceremony in asmall private gathering without a Bible. 20) During his early campaign he had an exclusive, private meeting with Iraqi-born Shiite Cleric and leader of American's largest mosque in Dearborn, Hasan al-Qazwini who gave him his book, American Crescent.
21) Obama said in his inauguration that America is now also a Muslim nation.22) He said he would campaign in all 57 states (the number of states in the OIC, Organization of the Islamic Conference, not the USA!)

Posted by: RushBabe at July 31, 2011 08:57 PM (Ew27I)

121 That fucker must have been unaccustomedly brief. I put the tv on at 5:50 PDT and nobody has it. Has he already bothered the country with his whining?

Posted by: Peaches at July 31, 2011 08:57 PM (anaRJ)

122 How many divisions does the Truth have?

Posted by: sifty is Faptain America at July 31, 2011 08:57 PM (ECjvn)

123 said Chief of staff Mullin went to afghganistan this weekend and told
the soldiers their checks to families might not be showing up on time,

Reid used that anecdote yesterday in a bit of lies and caterwauling I saw on CNN yesterday.

Posted by: Waterhouse at July 31, 2011 08:57 PM (P57Q4)

124 I don't think this bails out Obama at all.
The election will be ALL ABOUT JOBS. The GOP is far better off talking about growth rather than austerity.
Whoever the nominee is, he/she needs to focus on simplifying and limiting government, making the government work for the people not vice versa, and BRINGING BACK MANUFACTURING JOBS to the United States.
One smart thing Romney did last time around was talk about bringing back manufacturing jobs to Michigan (during the 2008 primary). That helped him beat McCain in Michigan.
If Mittens were smart, he'd talk EXCLUSIVELY about his business experience and his ability to make the U.S. a manufacturing power again.
Save the tough issues and discussions until AFTER you get into power. Talk optimistically, even unrealistically, when you're seeking power.

Posted by: stickety at July 31, 2011 08:57 PM (FUDwf)

125 Willow,

yep, here's the video. Utterly shameful.

Posted by: Jose at July 31, 2011 08:57 PM (WTNJJ)

126 Ego One really, really, really wanted to go to his burfday party.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 31, 2011 08:57 PM (DEcmU)

127 http://preview.tinyurl.com/dilbert-survival

Posted by: Hrothgar at July 31, 2011 08:58 PM (yrGif)

128 Well, you can't expect Obama to come begging to congress every time Michelle needs a vacation or he needs to buy some more votes.

Posted by: WalrusRex at July 31, 2011 08:58 PM (TVvXc)

129 Always Be Capitulating. No coffee, GOP. Coffee is for closers.

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at July 31, 2011 08:59 PM (HjxoE)

130 Great job, boss, great job! My turn now, right?

Posted by: Obama's Autopen at July 31, 2011 08:59 PM (7X5Wk)

131 Boehner tells GOPers "this isn't the greatest deal in the world. But it
shows how much we've changed the terms of the debate in this town."

Boehner: Nothing in this framework violates our principles. We got 98 percent of what we asked for.

Boehner says "we've gone toe-to-toe with the Obama Administration and the Democrat-controlled Senate on behalf of our people..."

Bwahahahahaha.....sob, sob, sob....



Posted by: Tami at July 31, 2011 08:59 PM (X6akg)

132 107
Did
they fix the secret taxes in the Reid deal? Which version are
they reworking - House or Senate? Boehner, Reid, or McConnell?

No, because it's not part of the deal.

None of the above. They're still arguing about triggers, specifically the one for the Rs that cuts defense if an agreement is not reached for increase #3.

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 08:59 PM (o2lIv)

133 Always Be Capitulating. No coffee, GOP. Coffee is for closers.
so full of win

Posted by: Ben at July 31, 2011 09:00 PM (DKV43)

134 So neither party will do what is required to save the nation. They cut a trillion OVER TEN YEARS to be able to go into debt ANOTHER TRILLION IN EIGHT MONTHS.

We need to get rid of all of these losers. How can they sit there and claim to be Americans.

Posted by: bobbymike at July 31, 2011 09:00 PM (xpx19)

135 Oh thank god, for a minute there I was worried that they weren't going to insert themselves into my life.

Posted by: Pissed off 26-year old with three part-time jobs at July 31, 2011 09:00 PM (NbIC7)

136 It's not a "done" deal yet. Pelosi was saying that her guys aren't totally on board yet. I actually hope the House Dems vote this down. It will be the end of the Obama administration.

Posted by: tinkerbella at July 31, 2011 09:01 PM (TTPDw)

137 Town Halls are going to be fuckin ICY this time around.

Posted by: sifty is Faptain America at July 31, 2011 09:01 PM (ECjvn)

138 We won.

Posted by: MaxMBJ at July 31, 2011 09:01 PM (deaac)

139 On the upside the dems have promised to use spit this time instead of a chalkdust/sand mixture that they used last time we got "cuts"

Posted by: Ben at July 31, 2011 09:02 PM (DKV43)

140 The real radicals are the progressives. This whole mess is their fault. They just had to pass their precious PelosiCare.

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at July 31, 2011 09:02 PM (0fzsA)

141 So 80s it's a brand-new bill - de novo? Will they check the math before voting on it? Will the CBO score it?

Posted by: Y-not at July 31, 2011 09:02 PM (5H6zj)

142
Boehner: Nothing in this framework violates our principles. We got 98 percent of what we asked for.



Just to reiterate, Boehner and Friends negotiated themselves into accepting a trillion dollar debt increase, then the choice between new taxes or defense cuts.

Thank goodness they didn't get 100%.

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 31, 2011 09:02 PM (EeYDk)

143 How can they sit there and claim to be Americans.

Easy. They consider America to be exclusively theirs. We're just hapless bystanders.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at July 31, 2011 09:02 PM (vbh31)

144 If this GOP "leadership" had been in the place of the founding fathers they would have "compromised" with KGIII.They all would get patents of nobility while the colonists took it up the ass.

Posted by: steevy at July 31, 2011 09:02 PM (FQFjX)

145 Repubs must -- must -- accept this deal with a big vote. This will reenforce the fact that ...

We won.

Posted by: MaxMBJ at July 31, 2011 09:02 PM (deaac)

146 Sarah: Okay, had enough of this shit?

Posted by: sherlock at July 31, 2011 09:03 PM (thr9V)

147 137 Town Halls are going to be fuckin ICY this time around.
Posted by: sifty is Faptain America at July 31, 2011 09:01 PM (ECjvn)
Pretty sure any GOP'er is going to regret their aye vote...it might be toughexplaining the continued boning oftheir constituents great great grand children

Posted by: Red Shirt at July 31, 2011 09:03 PM (FIDMq)

148 There were some pretty substantial changes in this from the original rumors. All for the worse it seems.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at July 31, 2011 09:04 PM (0f7gD)

149 Hey look curious showing her true troll colors again.

Posted by: buzzion at July 31, 2011 09:04 PM (oVQFe)

150 Well, Ive had enough for a day, time for DVRd NCIS reruns.

Posted by: Oldsailors poet at July 31, 2011 09:04 PM (ZDUD4)

151 139 - and a peck on the cheek at sunrise? Neato! You Dems sure know how to make a gal feel special. Thanks GOP!

Posted by: Lady Liberty at July 31, 2011 09:04 PM (HjxoE)

152 It's not a "done" deal yet. Pelosi was saying that her guys aren't
totally on board yet. I actually hope the House Dems vote this down. It
will be the end of the Obama administration.

Nancy Pelosi would lick a yak's ball sack if Obama snapped his fingers.

Every bit of angst and resistance about this shit from now until it becomes law is just another skit.

All these cocksuckers have their scripts in hand. I could write the headlines myself.


Posted by: sifty is Faptain America at July 31, 2011 09:04 PM (ECjvn)

153
It's not a "done" deal yet. Pelosi was saying that her guys aren't totally on board yet.Posted by: tinkerbella




We drove such a hard bargain the used car salesman has to go in back to talk to the credit manager to see if he'll sign off on it....

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 31, 2011 09:04 PM (EeYDk)

154 Jose, It's appalling, HE sends these brave soldiers Out at His bidding and He threatens to not pay them???

where's HIS portion of the money that is unaccounted for, You'd think He'd know that without the military standing to serve, We as a nation are nada against those monsterous dictators waiting and mostly ready to screw with us and our allies.
There is nothing He won't use, old folks, sick folks, kids, really this is the MOST un-presidential president I've ever experienced

Posted by: willow at July 31, 2011 09:04 PM (h+qn8)

155 Okay gone all day. Did we get screwed or not?Don't bother I think I know the answer...

Posted by: Donna at July 31, 2011 09:04 PM (OVCfn)

156 They used to tell me I was building a dream, and so I followed the mob,
When there was earth to plow, or guns to bear, I was always there right on the job.
They used to tell me I was building a dream, with peace and glory ahead,
Why should I be standing in line, just waiting for bread?
Brother can you spare a dime?

History-shmistory

Posted by: Hrothgar at July 31, 2011 09:05 PM (yrGif)

Posted by: Theresa's ready for some football!!! at July 31, 2011 09:06 PM (mo1uZ)

158

jamestaranto
James Taranto












"I'll get you next time, corporate jet!"

Posted by: Jose at July 31, 2011 09:07 PM (WTNJJ)

159 The bush tax rates all expire in a couple years anyway. Does this make that impossible? I doubt it.

Posted by: Dan at July 31, 2011 09:07 PM (mXBxH)

160 68You meant 4 seconds, right?
You both mean 4 days, don't you?

Posted by: kama sutra dude at July 31, 2011 09:07 PM (oUG6f)

161 134
So neither party will do what is required to save the nation. They cut a
trillion OVER TEN YEARS to be able to go into debt ANOTHER TRILLION IN
EIGHT MONTHS.

We need to get rid of all of these losers. How can they sit there and claim to be Americans.


Posted by: bobbymike at July 31, 2011 09:00 PM

What are you going to do, throw away your vote!!

Posted by: Kang & Kodos at July 31, 2011 09:07 PM (Y+DPZ)

162 141
So 80s it's a brand-new bill - de novo? Will they check the math before
voting on it? Will the CBO score it?

The framework is mostly Boehner's bill with some aspects of McConnell's bill. (Which is surprising because McConnell negotiated this.) As for CBO, yes, they will. They'd be derelict if they failed to score this.

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 09:07 PM (o2lIv)

163 Lindsey Graham on Hanity? Really?

Posted by: Countrysquire at July 31, 2011 09:07 PM (/GzDz)

164 I saw no evidence that anyone who was taking the hard line position (Chaffetz, Paul, et al) were making any headway in bringing people to their viewpoint. No evidence at all. What I did see was that some good conservatives like Paul Ryan and Allen West were willing to sign on to the Boehner bill. If going through all of this extra round of negotiations has weakened what we got, then I'm pretty annoyed with the hardliners.

Posted by: Y-not at July 31, 2011 09:07 PM (5H6zj)

165 If the US violates the enlistment contract with soldiers, they can come home now right?

Or march on Washington and Fort Knox to collect?

Just wondering.

Posted by: sifty is Faptain America at July 31, 2011 09:08 PM (ECjvn)

166 It's all amusing in a way because no Congress 5 years from now when the painful cuts start to hit is going to give a flying fuck what this Congress agreed to.

That's why we need to take the WH and Senate in 2012 and pass the Balanced Budget Amendment that will have some real teeth.

For now though, we have managed to change the conversation and make budget cutting the new normal. As I've said on many occasions, you have to boil the frog slowly. I think with this deal we've put Kermit in a pan of warm water and set it on medium. By 2012 he'll be boiling and wondering what he smells cooking.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at July 31, 2011 09:08 PM (uVlA4)

167 154 - he is so pathetic, isn't he? Any tactic to scare the masses. No trick too cheap, no blow too low. It's the Chicago Way. We bring every idea we've got to the table, right off the bat, he brings nothing. And gets to give another class warfare speech from the bully-pulpit. Win-win for Captain Jug Ears.

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at July 31, 2011 09:09 PM (HjxoE)

168
Posted by: mpfs at July 31, 2011 08:51 PM (3TjSM)
OK. Once. Think Tantric. Or maybe it seemed 4 minutes.
Anyways, why even bother? I don't want to give the idiot ideas, but maybe he could come and do an "Everything's going as planned" press conference at the top of every hour. When we see him every hour, we know he's taken charge, if he DOES NOT show up, then we know something's wrong.
I've been telling people that if the cuts are anything less than $12 Trillion or so, I'm really worried about the country. Wish a few Republicans had my same concerns.

Posted by: Stateless Infidel at July 31, 2011 09:09 PM (GKQDR)

169
"By 2012 he'll be boiling and wondering what he smells cooking."

I hope you're right, Bill.

Posted by: sherlock at July 31, 2011 09:10 PM (thr9V)

170 Why wouldnt we agree to say 1 trilliion increase so he has to deal with it again before election!?

Why did we bail him out and push ti past the election with 2 trillion plus!?

Posted by: Dan at July 31, 2011 09:10 PM (mXBxH)

171 If all you have is hammer, everything looks like a nail.

But Obama also has a sickle, so everything looks like Marxism.

Posted by: nickless at July 31, 2011 09:11 PM (MMC8r)

172 Corporate jets, we don't need no stinkin' corporate jets!

Posted by: "Gold Hat" Obama at July 31, 2011 09:11 PM (HjxoE)

173 152
Nancy
Pelosi would lick a yak's ball sack if Obama snapped his fingers.Every
bit of angst and resistance about this shit from now until it becomes
law is just another skit.All these cocksuckers have their
scripts in hand. I could write the headlines myself.

She does not yet have the votes, though she will likely come-through if they get whipped hard enough.

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 09:11 PM (o2lIv)

174 That's why we need to take the WH and Senate in 2012 and pass the Balanced Budget Amendment that will have some real teeth.

Bullshit. You'll tell us to wait again so we can have a super-majority.

or it will be the wrong time to piss off moderates

or we'll need to replace the muffler bearings first

or the unicorn shipment will be late

Posted by: sifty is Faptain America at July 31, 2011 09:11 PM (ECjvn)

175 Question: Can a Balanced Budget Amendment force tax increases?

Posted by: ignorant hobbit at July 31, 2011 09:12 PM (H3jYe)

176 Bams looked utterly defeated to me. This is good. The economy is going to continue to stink, so Obama is not off the hook.
However, the lefties hate him now out loud and proud. This is a good
thing, too. He has nowhere to go.

You think San Fran Nan is going to come out and put the country into default tomorrow?? Let her try. Let's see the preznint get his party in order, if he can.

This is just the first battle of a long war. Sorry to sound like Krauthammer, but that's the truth.


Posted by: PJ at July 31, 2011 09:12 PM (FlVA8)

177 Close up: Beautiful gift wrapped box. The card attached reads to the American people.

Eagerly we unwrap the gift, lift the top and look inside to find a huge, steaming, stinking, wet turd.


Posted by: mpfs, channeling Congress and POTUS at July 31, 2011 09:13 PM (3TjSM)

178 I have had all the surprise buttsecs from my government I can stand for a little while.

Going to go out with my family and enjoy a trip to Wal-Mart while we still can.

Posted by: sifty is Faptain America at July 31, 2011 09:13 PM (ECjvn)

179 Bams looked utterly defeated to me.

Planning his 50th has taken a lot out of him. Hard to find a bouncy castle with styrofoam Greek pillars.

Posted by: Waterhouse at July 31, 2011 09:13 PM (P57Q4)

180 166 - Kermit! Hi-ya!
http://tinyurl.com/4zlaz4h

Posted by: Miss Piggy at July 31, 2011 09:14 PM (HjxoE)

181 So Huckabee says pass this and move forward (gag). Is that code for not going back to 2008 or 2007 spending levels? Are our betters telling us to accept the crap they've done and turn on American Idol?

Posted by: compass and chain at July 31, 2011 09:15 PM (N8iBi)

182 so now the jockeying for "voting 'no' rights" will happen. We will get 51 votes for in the senate and a 110 or so of each party in the house.

And America will get boned.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at July 31, 2011 09:15 PM (0f7gD)

183 164
I saw no evidence that anyone who was taking the hard line position
(Chaffetz, Paul, et al) were making any headway in bringing people to their viewpoint.
No evidence at all. What I did see was that some good conservatives
like Paul Ryan and Allen West were willing to sign on to the Boehner
bill. If going through all of this extra round of negotiations has
weakened what we got, then I'm pretty annoyed with the hardliners.


RE Chaffetz, he wants passage of a BBA for this one.

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 09:15 PM (o2lIv)

184 We were never going to get big cuts with this senate and this white house, so all we should have been going for is for Obama to deal with this again in 2012 weakening him for election, but apparently we didnt even get that!

Posted by: Dan at July 31, 2011 09:15 PM (mXBxH)

185 Okay gone all day. Did we get screwed or not?Don't bother I think I know the answer...Don't bother we're already booooned.

Posted by: the clowns at July 31, 2011 09:16 PM (oUG6f)

186 Are our betters telling us to accept the crap they've done and turn on American Idol?

I think that statement is way closer to reality than we dare imagine.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at July 31, 2011 09:18 PM (vbh31)

187 How much KY does $2.4 trillion buy?

Posted by: Waterhouse at July 31, 2011 09:18 PM (P57Q4)

188 136
It's not a "done" deal yet. Pelosi was saying that her guys aren't
totally on board yet. I actually hope the House Dems vote this down. It
will be the end of the Obama administration.


Posted by: tinkerbella at July 31, 2011 09:01 PM (TTPDw)
I just read that she will confer with boehner and he is going to tell her how many votes he needs. That sounds pretty "done deal" "this is all part of the kabuki dance script" to me.

Posted by: curious at July 31, 2011 09:19 PM (k1rwm)

189 How much KY does $2.4 trillion buy?

Not nearly enough.

Posted by: Peaches at July 31, 2011 09:19 PM (anaRJ)

190 Honey, I realize that a 4 minute quickie isn't what you had in mind, but look at it this way, Pookie: we can snuggle all night, if you want to.

Posted by: Barky the Negotiator at July 31, 2011 09:19 PM (p2IBw)

191 How much KY does $2.4 trillion buy?

Not enough.

Posted by: That Chicken at July 31, 2011 09:20 PM (vbh31)

192 The first bullet pointin the supposed Boehner PowerPoint isum ah, er, a small detailbut a majoroneas well ----call it a paradox or aprevarication.You take yourpick.
There is no way thisplan cuts more than than it increases debt/spending. Absolutely no way, no how.

Posted by: journolist at July 31, 2011 09:21 PM (Fb9Q0)

193 184
We were never going to get big cuts with this senate and this white
house, so all we should have been going for is for Obama to deal with
this again in 2012 weakening him for election, but apparently we didnt
even get that!

Posted by: Dan at July 31, 2011 09:15 PM (mXBxH)
someone on the sunday shows said that all the president wanted was a clean bill to raise the debt ceiling and that the republicans have apparently screwed that up. This was said early in the day. "it's all bull chit"

Posted by: curious at July 31, 2011 09:21 PM (k1rwm)

194 Yay, shit sandwiches for all!

Posted by: hutch1200 at July 31, 2011 09:21 PM (llgy4)

195 I promise you folks, the left is the big loser here. Republicans are calling the dance. We are leading at every turn and Obama is having to respond to us rather than the other way around.

Obama's base is gonna be WAY more pissed at this deal than the Republican base will be.

And to those who say we should have held out for a pure deal and shut the government down if necessary, I respect your passion but you are just wrong. Obama and the Democrats ONLY hope in 2012 is to successfully paint Republicans as extremists and scare the independents. Their ONLY hope because they have no record to run on.

This deal robs them of that opportunity.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at July 31, 2011 09:21 PM (uVlA4)

196 170
Why wouldnt we agree to say 1 trilliion increase so he has to deal with
it again before election!?



Why did we bail him out and push ti past the election with 2 trillion
plus!?

It has two tranches, so they didn't. Second increase comes in February.

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 09:21 PM (o2lIv)

197 I wuz told therins would bein' no math on this here thread.

Posted by: mpfs at July 31, 2011 09:22 PM (3TjSM)

198 We'll see how many freshmen turn out to be tea party traitors like Allen West.

Posted by: Old grizzled gym coach at July 31, 2011 09:22 PM (QBQcg)

199 Yeah obama wanted a clean bill TO GET HIM PAST november 2012!

Posted by: Dan at July 31, 2011 09:22 PM (mXBxH)

200 @157 - now just how in hell did I get a blank comment posted on this post? I wonder if my place is haunted? Wait, maybe it was when my coaster stuck to the bottom of my rum and coke and fell onto the keyboard when I picked up the glass?

Weird. Carry on.

Posted by: Theresa's ready for the ONT (AND football!!!) at July 31, 2011 09:22 PM (mo1uZ)

201 200 - We'll be right over

Posted by: Ghostbusters at July 31, 2011 09:24 PM (HjxoE)

202 Does anyone here really think that the Balanced Budget Amendment is anything other than purest bullshit? The Constitution will just get ignored; currently it exists to make us all feel all redwhitebluey on 4 July. Forget it. Just f0qing pass a balanced budget.

Posted by: Boulder Toilet Hobo at July 31, 2011 09:24 PM (OAig5)

203 Obama's base is gonna be WAY more pissed at this deal than the Republican base will be.

Don't look at me when you make that pronouncement. They'd have to kill my damned dog to make me any more pissed off than I already am.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at July 31, 2011 09:24 PM (vbh31)

204 This war wasn't won in 2010. The battle was. WEe will be fighting the socialists for the rest of our lives.

Posted by: Battlestar 2012 at July 31, 2011 09:25 PM (ibzLr)

205 You'd think He'd know that without the military standing to serve, We as
a nation are nada against those monsterous dictators waiting and mostly
ready to screw with us and our allies.

Every despot feeds his army first.

Unfortunately for them, the US Army is not his army. He'll feed the SEIU first.

Posted by: AmishDude at July 31, 2011 09:25 PM (73tyQ)

206 wow, batchelor is talking about NASA not this debacle. sheesh as my grand father used to say "the fix is in".

Posted by: curious at July 31, 2011 09:25 PM (k1rwm)

207 New info RE defense cuts


The second issue regarding defense is in the ‘trigger’ or
‘contingency.’ The point of the ‘backstop’ is that it isn’t supposed to
be used.

•Any savings from the Joint Committee would reduce the amount of the
sequestration (dollar-for-dollar).

•Even if the committee failed to produce a single dollar in savings,
Defense would be on the hook for less than $500 billion over nine years,
beginning in 2013.

•FY 2012 would not be affected under any circumstances,

•If this occurs - Congress, and the President (whether Obama or his
successor), could replace the Defense reductions with other spending
reductions.

•And, again, the point of the ‘backstop’ is that it never, ever
happens.

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 09:25 PM (o2lIv)

208 Sniff, sniff...what stinks?

Sorry, it's the big piece of shit that Congress will try to pass.

For Gawd's sake light a match if you're gonna create a stink like that!

Posted by: mpfs at July 31, 2011 09:25 PM (3TjSM)

209 Watch Obam Pelosi or Reid say something that ends up tanking this. You just know they're itching to insult the Republicans so they can take as much credit as possible.

Posted by: buzzion at July 31, 2011 09:25 PM (oVQFe)

210 "Bi-partisan committee that reports by November."

What does this mean? We used to define bi-partisan committee "the Congress." Is this still Congress? Or is it yet another unelected panel to be ignored but for the political spin and leverage that can be squeezed from it?

Whatever. DOOMed. We aren't a serious nation. Fantasy cutting with real, hole-deepening spending. The Best We Can Do!™

Congress supplies the Barbed Cock of Satan™. Obama supplies the lube. Voters either avert their eyes to Jersey Shore or look on and cheer, "Deeper! Harder!"

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 31, 2011 09:25 PM (r4t7/)

211
I thought we already had a special bipartisan committee to work out a budget -- the fucking House of Representatives, hey?

Posted by: arhooley at July 31, 2011 09:25 PM (gcp0j)

212 Did he speak at the HO-scale podium that iamateh1 won on eBay earlier today?

Posted by: jeannebodine at July 31, 2011 09:25 PM (nvlAW)

213 Next up - the budget, and looming government shutdown over that.

Its just too bad I missed the Kenyans 50 IQ speech tonight.

Posted by: Jimmah at July 31, 2011 09:26 PM (TfRqk)

214 The base is not angry with him at all, they are happy with this. Not one single person hasn't posted on fb how proud they are of their country and how happy they are with the president and our representatives. They don't sound pissed off or unhappy to me.

Posted by: curious at July 31, 2011 09:26 PM (k1rwm)

215 RE Chaffetz, he wants passage of a BBA for this one.

Yeah, I know what he wants, but where's the evidence that he was persuading anyone to his POV? Holding fast to a losing position is not leadership. And, I'd say it's particularly amusing Chaffetz to take the purity position when he's already gone out and endorsed Mitt Romney, for crying out loud.

Posted by: Y-not at July 31, 2011 09:26 PM (5H6zj)

216 175
Question: Can a Balanced Budget Amendment force tax increases?

Depends how it is written. The BBA written by Sen. Mike Lee has spending caps tied to GDP and a 2/3rds majority requirement to raise taxes or spend beyond revenues.

A simple BBA would be scary as some judge could use it to mandate higher taxes.

Posted by: Jose at July 31, 2011 09:26 PM (WTNJJ)

217 If Mittens were smart, he'd talk EXCLUSIVELY about his business
experience and his ability to make the U.S. a manufacturing power
again.

TheeRomney's business experience consisted of hustling foreign money (mostly Japanese) to fund leveraged buy outs of profitable American companies, then loot said company to the bone and sell off the remains and, doing so, threw thousands upon thousands of hardworking Americans out of their (say it with me class) manufacturing jobs. They would then use the profits from the first rape to fund more raping and pillaging of American companies that employed American workers manufacturing American goods.

This bastard is a lying thieving weasel. My apologies to weasels.

F him. F everyone sired by him. F him to the bone.


Posted by: VADM (Red) Cuthbert Collingwood RN at July 31, 2011 09:26 PM (hZqYp)

218 He's going to sing happy birthday to himself tonight. Don't forget to send in $38,500 as a sign of your worship and love. Any excess needed to re-elect him goes to the Mt. Rushmore fund.

Posted by: JD at July 31, 2011 09:26 PM (WtMd2)

219 Totally OT, but I'm flipping through the channel guide and find Fleiss: Prostitutes to Parrots on.... Animal Planet.

Does anyone else remember when Animal Planet was about animals and the History Channel was about history?

MTV was about music?

Posted by: As IF... at July 31, 2011 09:27 PM (piMMO)

220 I thought we already had a special bipartisan committee to work out a budget -- the fucking House of Representatives, hey?

I thought it was the Senate? Either way, it exists.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at July 31, 2011 09:27 PM (0vDuM)

221 214

You need new friends.

Posted by: mpfs at July 31, 2011 09:27 PM (3TjSM)

222 "Nancy Pelosi would lick a yak's ball sack if Obama snapped his fingers."

Err, no thanks.

Posted by: a yak at July 31, 2011 09:28 PM (Fw2Gg)

223 All in all Republicans have much to crow about.

Jennifer Rubin is fucking insane.

Posted by: Waterhouse at July 31, 2011 09:28 PM (P57Q4)

224 If Mittens were smart, he'd talk EXCLUSIVELY about his business
experience and his ability to make the U.S. a manufacturing power
again.

Maybe it's just me, but he seems to be doing even less than voting 'present' throughout this mess. I can't remember the last time I saw him expressing an opinion about any of this.

Posted by: As IF... at July 31, 2011 09:29 PM (piMMO)

225
#174 - "You'll tell us to wait again so we can have a super-majority."
No, no, the Supreme Court! We can't do ANYTHING until we have an 8-1 majority on the Supreme Court!

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at July 31, 2011 09:29 PM (jgkJo)

226 221 214You need new friends.
Posted by: mpfs at July 31, 2011 09:27 PM (3TjSM)
But the animal shelter doesn't allow for exchanges

Posted by: curiously stupid at July 31, 2011 09:29 PM (oVQFe)

227 Hutch: "I'll take the difference between the USA and Cuba for $100, Alex"
Alex: "Sorry, that is no longer a category"

Posted by: hutch1200 at July 31, 2011 09:30 PM (llgy4)

228 This deal robs them of that opportunity.

They will have $2.4T to pass out to their favorite cronies for payoffs.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at July 31, 2011 09:30 PM (0f7gD)

229 Who is this screeching bitch on Fox?

Ah, the sane voice of Stuart Varney.

Posted by: mpfs at July 31, 2011 09:30 PM (3TjSM)

230 Maybe it's just me, but he seems to be doing even less than voting
'present' throughout this mess. I can't remember the last time I saw
him expressing an opinion about any of this.

Me neither, As IF. He makes me want to puke.

Posted by: Peaches at July 31, 2011 09:31 PM (anaRJ)

231 >>"Nancy Pelosi would lick a yak's ball sack if Obama snapped his fingers."


I believe that's called Tea Bagging.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 31, 2011 09:31 PM (TMB3S)

232 Is it time to drink ourselves senseless do we don't notice how much that sand lube they're using hurts!

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at July 31, 2011 09:31 PM (RCYbQ)

233 What the hell is this 'super congress' I am reading about on other boards?

Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at July 31, 2011 09:31 PM (qjUnn)

234 Question: Can a Balanced Budget Amendment force tax increases?
Posted by: ignorant hobbit at July 31, 2011 09:12 PM (H3jYe)

Yes, if it is a CLEAN BBA. Someone with standing could go to court and force the bench to increase taxes to keep in line with the BBA.

Posted by: TendStl at July 31, 2011 09:31 PM (GiF31)

235 210
"Bi-partisan
committee that reports by November."

What does this mean?
We used to define bi-partisan committee "the Congress." Is this still
Congress? Or is it yet another unelected panel to be ignored but for the
political spin and leverage that can be squeezed from it?
Joint committee
Conference committee

Each congressional leader appoints 3 members from their conference/caucus.

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 09:31 PM (o2lIv)

236 @You need new friends.
-----
And you're not going to find them here.

Posted by: Y-not at July 31, 2011 09:31 PM (5H6zj)

237 For those who feel this is a horrible deal, please explain to me in detail how, while controlling only 1/3 of the government, Republicans can get their way on everything without shutting down the government?

I promise you that shutting down the government would be a DISASTER for Republicans in 2012. You wanna lose independents? Shut down the government.

So, other than shutting down the government, what plan would you recommend that can pass the Senate and the WH? Remember that unless it actually passes you are just pissing in the wind.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at July 31, 2011 09:32 PM (uVlA4)

238 Okay, I'm placing my order at Rosetta Stone for my Greek lessons. Anyone else want in? We can probably get a group discount.

Posted by: mpfs at July 31, 2011 09:32 PM (3TjSM)

239
236


Oh, snap!!!

Posted by: Peaches at July 31, 2011 09:33 PM (anaRJ)

240 206
wow, batchelor is talking about NASA not this debacle. sheesh as my grand father used to say "the fix is in".


Posted by: curious at July 31, 2011 09:25 PM

I thought he was the guy who shouted "hey, I'm walkin' heah!!"

Posted by: kbdabear at July 31, 2011 09:34 PM (Y+DPZ)

241 The battle appears to be over the language in this debate. Revenue vs. tax increases, investments vs. pork. We don't do Ailensky, but our opponents live it. If only our leadership had the forethought to see this train coming down the tracks. I told my congress-critter (TN- we could change the leadership in 2012. I fear now we can't without some courage and honesty. Honesty in DC? Whatever am I thinking?

Posted by: compass and chain at July 31, 2011 09:34 PM (N8iBi)

242 To show how serious I am,I wouldn't sequester defense cuts or ANY fucking program.EVERYTHING should be on the table,we are fucking BROKE.What part of broke do people not understand??

Posted by: steevy at July 31, 2011 09:34 PM (FQFjX)

243 "Nancy Pelosi would lick a yak's ball sack if Obama snapped his fingers."





If you asked her nice and offered her a crisp glass of Chablis.

Posted by: mpfs at July 31, 2011 09:34 PM (3TjSM)

244 211
I thought we already had a special bipartisan committee to work out a
budget -- the fucking House of
Representatives, hey?

The House and Senate both have budget committees. This is not a budget resolution. The FY 2012 budget gets resolved before September 30th.

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 09:35 PM (o2lIv)

245 And you're not going to find them here.


Posted by: Y-not at July 31, 2011 09:31 PM (5H6zj)

OMG! I laughed at your brutality.

Posted by: As IF... at July 31, 2011 09:35 PM (piMMO)

246 If you didn't like the ass fucking we've been receiving you're really not going to be happy with this new turn of events.

Posted by: Beto Ochoa at July 31, 2011 09:35 PM (lpWVn)

247 230 - he is intellectually incurious. He thinks he knows everything there is to know. No further learning can occur.

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at July 31, 2011 09:35 PM (HjxoE)

248 Posted by: Bill Mitchell at July 31, 2011 09:32 PM (uVlA4)

There is no sense in trying to convince you of anything. All the fear-mongering and lieing done by the democrats has been swallowed by you hook, line, and sinker.

Posted by: Old grizzled gym coach at July 31, 2011 09:35 PM (QBQcg)

249 Yes, if it is a CLEAN BBA. Someone
with standing could go to court and force the bench to increase taxes
to keep in line with the BBA.

Posted by: TendStl at July 31, 2011 09:31 PM (GiF31)
The one they were talking about forced Congress to balance against last year's revenues. I.e., if you want to spend more, you have to raise taxes a year in advance.Of course, there are supermajority provisions that could override that.

Posted by: AmishDude at July 31, 2011 09:35 PM (73tyQ)

250 Can we please talk about something pleasant, interesting and exciting, like boobies?

Posted by: CMU VET at July 31, 2011 09:35 PM (Lc0+m)

251 MO: so we get to have a big birthday party?
BO: yep break out the caviar.
MO: cool, what do you want for your birthday?
BO: already got it. I got enough of a ceiling increase to have Turbo Timmy transfer the $1 billion to my campaign in $50 untraceable increments.

Posted by: whitehouse conversations at July 31, 2011 09:36 PM (0f7gD)

252 Okay, I'm placing my order at Rosetta Stone for my Greek lessons. Anyone else want in? We can probably get a group discount.
Posted by: mpfs
Loan me your credit cards for a week. That'll learn all abouts da greeks.

Posted by: hutch1200 at July 31, 2011 09:36 PM (llgy4)

253 I am on the verge of demanding one of two things.

1.Obama once every two weeks gives an 8 hour address on anything his little heart desires, I mean, go full bore Castro formall I care.

Or


2.Have the president continue on with his every other night spell but they have to be during the infommercial time slots 2-5 AM.

It is pissing me and mores, the wife off with our regular TV shows.

Posted by: Drider at July 31, 2011 09:36 PM (uJSfP)

254 Rum and Coke is quite tasty, but it sure does hurt when it comes out your nose!

Posted by: Theresa's ready for the ONT (AND football!!!) at July 31, 2011 09:36 PM (mo1uZ)

255 Does anybody believe that the debt ceiling is going to hold until the 2012 election? The way these guys spend money they'll hit the new debt ceiling next June.

Posted by: MrTea at July 31, 2011 09:37 PM (XWMLc)

256 Budget Cmte. Chairman Ryan on call tells members this bill is better
than the one passed Friday in the House. Says the baseline is better.

Hmmmm.....

Posted by: Tami at July 31, 2011 09:37 PM (X6akg)

257
Can we please talk about something pleasant, interesting and exciting, like boobies?

Posted by: CMU VET
Juan Williams is on Fox...HELP ME!

I require lots and lots of hot, sweaty sex to take my mind off of all this crap.

Posted by: mpfs at July 31, 2011 09:38 PM (3TjSM)

258 Possibly because of your chosen font size, every time I see that, I see "CLEAN BRA" and an air of puzzlement settles over me for a moment.

Posted by: Peaches at July 31, 2011 09:38 PM (anaRJ)

259 Can we please talk about something pleasant, interesting and exciting, like boobies?

Posted by: CMU VET
Juan Williams is on Fox


Well there's your boob.

Posted by: Tami at July 31, 2011 09:38 PM (X6akg)

260 You rang...

http://tinyurl.com/3wyh6rf

Posted by: boobehs at July 31, 2011 09:38 PM (HjxoE)

261 wow, batchelor has a guest on blaming the inevitable down grade on the tea party people and the republicans. Gee, boehner really did some good job for you guys didn't he.

Posted by: curious at July 31, 2011 09:38 PM (k1rwm)

262 215
Yeah, I know what he wants, but where's the
evidence that he was persuading anyone to his POV? Holding fast to a
losing position is not leadership. And, I'd say it's particularly
amusing Chaffetz to take the purity position when he's already gone out
and endorsed Mitt Romney, for crying out loud.

He's been persuasive on the need for a BBA and he was the drafter of CCB. Outside of that, he and Jordan were unable to permanently whip support against the Boehner bill in the Republican Study Committee (RSC).

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 09:39 PM (o2lIv)

263
No one mentions this but how much of the $4 Trillion put on the national credit cards are going to make it back to Obama and the Democrats in campaign contributions?
No one can phsically point to anything this money is buying. And$4 TRILLION is ahell of a lot of spreading around money.

Posted by: Stateless Infidel at July 31, 2011 09:39 PM (GKQDR)

264 261 The mask come off.Get lost bitch.

Posted by: steevy at July 31, 2011 09:39 PM (FQFjX)

265 wow, batchelor has a guest on blaming the inevitable
down grade on the tea party people and the republicans. Gee, boehner
really did some good job for you guys didn't he.

Posted by: curious at July 31, 2011 09:38 PM (k1rwm)

And another boob heard from!

Posted by: Tami at July 31, 2011 09:39 PM (X6akg)

266 http://is.gd/taYYa0
First, Democrats wanted to ensure this was the
last debt-limit increase before the 2012 elections. Raising the debt
limit, as Sen. Obama said in 2006, is "a sign of leadership failure" and
politically unpopular.
Second, they wanted to ensure that the right
issues would be debated in the election year. A high-stakes debate over a
balanced budget amendment -- as required by the bill the House passed
on Friday -- would make it clear that Democrats, unlike most Americans,
do not want a balanced budget.
Instead, the "trigger" in the new compromise
bill sets up a debate that Obama can easily cast as a fight between
cutting Medicare and raising taxes on Big Oil, corporate jet owners and
the richest 1 percent.

Posted by: Jose at July 31, 2011 09:40 PM (WTNJJ)

267 Off girlie body part sock-puppet!

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at July 31, 2011 09:40 PM (HjxoE)

268 wow, batchelor has a guest on blaming the inevitable down grade on the
tea party people and the republicans. Gee, boehner really did some good
job for you guys didn't he.

Who is "you guys"?

Posted by: As IF... at July 31, 2011 09:40 PM (piMMO)

269 What the hell is this 'super congress' I am reading about on other boards?
Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at July 31, 2011 09:31 PM (qjUnn)
Are you cheating on us!

Posted by: Outraged Moron Horde at July 31, 2011 09:40 PM (Ew27I)

270 Someone forgot to brief the intern that the gig is to pretend to be a conservative-leaning independent, not a gloating lib.

The mask continues to slip.

Posted by: Y-not at July 31, 2011 09:40 PM (5H6zj)

271 WTF is batchelor and why should I give a rat's fart?

Posted by: mpfs at July 31, 2011 09:40 PM (3TjSM)

272 I sure hope they pass the clean BRA. Heh.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at July 31, 2011 09:41 PM (vbh31)

273 Are you cheating on us!

Posted by: Outraged Moron Horde at July 31, 2011 09:40 PM (Ew27I)
It was just the tip and I thought about you all the entire time.

Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at July 31, 2011 09:41 PM (qjUnn)

274 Jinx, steevy!

Posted by: Y-not at July 31, 2011 09:41 PM (5H6zj)

275 rd, ben, CDMRB, Author, author, or whatever erstwhile cob-logger,

Put up the overnight disaster or lobby for 80's Chikadee as the next cob-logger.

Posted by: weft cut-loop at July 31, 2011 09:42 PM (DEcmU)

276 264
261 The mask come off.Get lost bitch.

I never understand why these assholes persist in posting in the face of universal derision and loathing. It boggles the mind . . . And, unlike painful stool, this one's not even remotely, accidentally amusing.

Posted by: Peaches at July 31, 2011 09:42 PM (anaRJ)

277 Hey does anyone want to know what going on Batchelor's show? I mean for most people if they wand to know would listen, but I figure all you old geezers who need to write me a check can't listen to the radio anyways since you're all deaf. Not like me, because I'm all young and cool and stuff.

Posted by: curiously stupid at July 31, 2011 09:42 PM (oVQFe)

278 I sure hope they pass the clean BRA. Heh.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish

That reminds me, I need to wash my dedicates. Thanks!

Posted by: mpfs at July 31, 2011 09:42 PM (3TjSM)

279 Why does somebody's post appear to me as "meow, meow, meow, meow!"?

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at July 31, 2011 09:43 PM (c0A3e)

280 274 Yeah.The mask is slipping more and more lately,wonder if they changed basement dwellers?

Posted by: steevy at July 31, 2011 09:43 PM (FQFjX)

281 ONT is up, bitches! Let's do dis, yo!

Posted by: twiceblessedmom at July 31, 2011 09:43 PM (HjxoE)

282 I require lots and lots of hot, sweaty sex to take my mind off of all this crap.
Posted by: mpfs at July 31, 2011 09:38 PM (3TjSM)
Have you met stateless infidel?

Posted by: Moron Hook-up Inc. at July 31, 2011 09:43 PM (Ew27I)

283 276 Getting paid too.No life?Both?

Posted by: steevy at July 31, 2011 09:44 PM (FQFjX)

284 279 Why does somebody's post appear to me as "meow, meow, meow, meow!"?
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at July 31, 2011 09:43 PM (c0A3e)
Do you have awesome tech friends who wrote a program who did that for you in exchange for food?

Posted by: buzzion at July 31, 2011 09:44 PM (oVQFe)

285 Bat-chiller? I thought Ron Poeiel was dead?

Posted by: hutch1200 at July 31, 2011 09:44 PM (llgy4)

286 While we may feel like we took one in the squeak hole, imagine what we'd feel like without our "wins" in 2010?

Posted by: ronno at July 31, 2011 09:45 PM (nQR0p)

287 267 Off girlie body part sock-puppet!
Posted by: twiceblessedmom at July 31, 2011 09:40 PM (HjxoE)


Wait!

What??

Posted by: CoolCzech at July 31, 2011 09:45 PM (kUaEF)

288 80sBaby@235,

Thanks but I'm still confused. Not that it matters, but three/leader is in the legislation? And is this a joint, and conference, a hybrid, or some other uniquely defined (or yet to be defined) entity with indeterminate authority?

I just don't see it mattering. At all. Other than the GOP might provide a token Hobbit wherein s/he doesn't matter. The Stupid Party™ either loses outright or it ties only to cave at a future date when we go through this charade again because of the urgency!!eleventy!

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at July 31, 2011 09:45 PM (r4t7/)

289 That reminds me, I need to wash my dedicates. Thanks!

I don't remember who it was that I was chatting with about the Hamilton Beach drying center but, whoever it was.... it's now only $28 at Walmart.

I paid $60 and I'm buying a backup at the new price.

Posted by: As IF... at July 31, 2011 09:45 PM (piMMO)

290 ONT is up! YAY!!!!

Posted by: Theresa is ready for some football! at July 31, 2011 09:46 PM (mo1uZ)

291 "For the love of God man...SHUT UP. "

Fortunately I've been watching Food Network.

Whatever happens with this debt ceiling deal, the quality of the deal, and the consequences of the deal really don't matter, Dick Obama will be taking a victory lap.

The important thing will be the media helping to make him look good, so he can be reelected, because he's historic or something.

Posted by: nerdygirl at July 31, 2011 09:46 PM (g8JDc)

292 266 Please call Speaker Boehner, he needs you badly!

Posted by: compass and chain at July 31, 2011 09:46 PM (N8iBi)

293 ...because he's historic or something.
Yes he is.

Posted by: As IF... at July 31, 2011 09:47 PM (piMMO)

294 261
wow, batchelor has a guest on blaming the inevitable down grade on the
tea party people and the republicans. Gee, boehner really did some good
job for you guys didn't he.


Posted by: curious at July 31, 2011 09:38 PM

Well, when you lose Margaret Cho, you've lost AMERICA!


Posted by: kbdabear at July 31, 2011 09:47 PM (Y+DPZ)

295 Does anyone else remember when Animal Planet was about animals and the History Channel was about history?MTV was about music?Yeah. Back when AE and TLC had top-quality programming like PBS but you tax money didn't pay for it. So, what? 1985?

Posted by: andycanuck at July 31, 2011 09:48 PM (oUG6f)

296 Put up the overnight disaster
Well, that settles it. No ONT, OOT. It's now the OND.

Posted by: RushBabe at July 31, 2011 09:48 PM (Ew27I)

297 Paul Ryan says this is better than the Boehner bill.

That's good enough for me.

While you guys fuss, I am going to go watch some mindless TV and get my blood pressure down.

Posted by: Miss Marple at July 31, 2011 09:48 PM (Fo83G)

298 I didn't get the thing about the biggest deal since Eisenhower, could the Lyin kING please come back on my TV and splain that part again?

Posted by: Tea Party Proud and Gonna Stay Loud at July 31, 2011 09:49 PM (tHnoW)

299 So I watched him and I have to wonder, what the hell was that? He's just reading his own press releases now.
President Obama, video blogger.

Posted by: lowandslow at July 31, 2011 09:49 PM (GZitp)

300 Yup, curious, I know when I want astute political commentary, I go first to reality show stars, cause they really are smarter than those of us in the flyover zone.

Who you going to listen to next, the maladjusted mommies on "Toddlers and Tiaras"?

Posted by: nerdygirl at July 31, 2011 09:57 PM (g8JDc)

301 The House and Senate both have budget committees.
This is not a budget resolution. The FY 2012 budget gets resolved before
September 30th.

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 09:35 PM

It seems to me this special committee is a substitute for Congress.

Posted by: arhooley at July 31, 2011 09:57 PM (gcp0j)

302 288
80sBaby@235,

Thanks but I'm still confused. Not that it matters,
but three/leader is in the legislation? And is this a joint, and
conference, a hybrid, or some other uniquely defined (or yet to be
defined) entity with indeterminate authority?
I just don't see it
mattering. At all. Other than the GOP might
provide a token Hobbit wherein s/he doesn't matter. The Stupid Party™
either loses outright or it ties only to cave at a future date when we
go through this charade again because
of the urgency!!eleventy!

A conference committee is convened when their is an impasse between the House and Senate. The way it works is each leaders chooses 3 of their members for a total of 12 altogether:

Boener: 3 House Rs
Pelosi: 3 House Dem
McConnell: 3 Senate Rs
Reid: 3 Senate Dems

Both a conference committee and a joint committee have a narrow focus and are only temporary. In Boehner's bill, they have a whole list of rules they must follow before they report to Congress. They have a specific process whereby they vote for the suggestions of the committee and these may not be altered. If they fail to do their duty, the trigger mechanism comes into play.

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 09:58 PM (o2lIv)

303 I hope that the bill, if it passes, passes the both House and Senate with more Democratic votes than Republican. Then let the doom commence.

Embrace the suck.

Posted by: toby928™ at July 31, 2011 10:01 PM (GTbGH)

304 301
It seems to
me this special committee is a substitute for Congress.
It is done by members of Congress but only occurs in certain situations. I believe this was last done when they discussed the closing of military bases under Bush 43.

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 10:02 PM (o2lIv)

305

ChadPergram












Expect both the GOP Conference
and Democratic Caucus to meet midday tomororw.

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 10:04 PM (o2lIv)

306 Also just read that the agreement on defense cuts included in "Security" includes foreign aid and Homeland Secuirty. So that DOD doesn't take that big a hit.

Posted by: TendStl at July 31, 2011 10:04 PM (GiF31)

307 Sorry my post above is from Allahs last post.

Posted by: TendStl at July 31, 2011 10:04 PM (GiF31)

308

I hope that the bill, if it passes, passes the both House and Senate with more Democratic votes than Republican.

I'm guessing it will, although it's the threats to entitlements that will bring teh dume -- to Democrats.

Posted by: arhooley at July 31, 2011 10:07 PM (gcp0j)

309 john fund saying the dems have 70 negative votes so far.

Posted by: curious at July 31, 2011 10:13 PM (k1rwm)

310 "The Speaker told members that 'it is his goal' to have the vote on
Monday, and then break for the five-week August recess but, leaders are
waiting on the CBO score first. The text of the agreement will be
available Monday morning."

/The Hill

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 10:15 PM (o2lIv)

311 Only 3Rs against thus far

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 10:16 PM (o2lIv)

312 Debt ceiling update: tax increases still a no-go
by Jim Pethokoukis

An aide: "It has an undefined mandate of deficit reduction but the way that is
constructed would essentially make it impossible to raise taxes.
Anything scored by CBO is based on current law. Current law assumes that
taxes are going to go up by three-and-a-half trillion dollars next year
[over ten years]. So anything you do to the tax code, unless it starts
off with a $3.5 trillion tax increase, it’s going to be adding to the
deficit … It’s almost impossible for them to touch taxes because if
they do, almost anything will be scored as a tax cut, making it that
much more difficult to reach the $1.5 trillion that they need to get to."

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 10:21 PM (o2lIv)

313 "In other words, there will be no cuts for the
immediate future. But there will be a single $2.4 trillion debt ceiling
raise (based on a Joint Committee green light, LOL) just as Obama
desired."

Posted by: curious at July 31, 2011 10:21 PM (k1rwm)

314 The NYT is spitting mad:

http://tinyurl.com/3kv9mmq

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 10:33 PM (o2lIv)

315
Over at Kos they're spitting mad, too. Primary him!

Posted by: arhooley at July 31, 2011 11:11 PM (gcp0j)

316 315
Over at Kos they're spitting mad, too. Primary him!

I always love when they're mad at Sir Golfs-A-Lot.

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 11:18 PM (o2lIv)

317 "I always love when they're mad at Sir Golfs-A-Lot. "

You realize their anger will last all of one day.

Posted by: George Orwell at July 31, 2011 11:25 PM (NI5Sy)

318 Jim Pethokoukis and Reuters I believe has bought into Boehners BS.

Stop and think on what the expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts means first and what the commission is charged to do.

The expiration of the cuts is in effect a tax Increase and is projected to bring in an additional $3.5 Trillion in revenue.

The Commission is charged to find an additional $1.5 Trillion in Deficit Reduction. Deficit Reduction can be either spending cuts or increased revenue (tax increases).

Now according to Jim and Reuters that $3.5 Trillion of "new" revenue from the tax increase is not already incorporated into the baseline. If that is the case then all the commission has to do is use that "additional" revenue as the the additional revenue to meet the needs of this deal. That means no new cuts, just the higher taxes from the expiration of the Bush cuts.

IF, as I suspect it really works, the additional revenue from the expiration of the Bush Tax cuts is factored into the baseline (It should be since the ending of them was part of the deal last year to get them extended) then the commission still needs to find an additional $1.5 Trillion in deficit reduction. This brings us back to the point that tax hikes are possible. In this case the expiration of the Bush tax cuts are not a factor.

So bottomline the expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts are either already factored into the baseline or not. If they are not then they can be used as the additional revenue needed to meet the additional deficit reduction requirement of this deal. If they are already factored in then they do not prevent in any way shape or form the Dems from going for tax hikes as the way to get the additional deficit reduction.

I guarantee the Dems fought tooth and nail for the language that the commission to has to find $1.5 trillion in deficit reduction and not $1.5 trillion in Spending cuts for this exact reason.

Posted by: boballab at July 31, 2011 11:26 PM (Tk16+)

319

McCormackJohn








The debt deal has shaken Paul
Krugman's faith in American democracy.http://tinyurl.com/3w64lgj #singletear

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 11:38 PM (o2lIv)

320 317
"I always love when they're mad at Sir Golfs-A-Lot."



You realize their anger will last all of one day.

Some of them will eventually fall-in-love with him again, as if their routine. Still, the recent comments and articles railing against him show he has lost whatever magic they thought he had.

Besides, might as well enjoy their tears while they last.

Posted by: 80sBaby at July 31, 2011 11:46 PM (o2lIv)

321
Democrats can look forward to the expiration of the Bush tax cuts next
year, and will have to make the case in the 2012 elections for new
lawmakers who will undo the damage. --NY Times editorial

Looks like they're thinking the same as us: this is a stop-gap compromise to be torn up in 2013. We'll see who gets to do it.

Posted by: arhooley at July 31, 2011 11:46 PM (gcp0j)

322 Bams did not get a clean bill to raise the ceiling; he got a big wooly procedure designed to slowly turn the screws of budget cutting from now to 2012 with no new taxes.

It's gonna hurt.

It's the best a minority party can do.

Posted by: PJ at July 31, 2011 11:47 PM (FlVA8)

323
Some of them will eventually fall-in-love with him again, as if their
routine. Still, the recent comments and articles railing against him
show he has lost whatever magic they thought he had.

That loss of magic is pretty significant. The NY Times is so mad at him (editorial board, Krugman, Douthat) that I'm seriously wondering if they or others in the MSM will open the floodgates on Operation Fast and Furious. Yeah, I'm kind of a one-noter on that, but it's so bad I think it's going to be the thing that brings the Odministration down hard. I even see a primary challenge shaping up on it.

Posted by: arhooley at July 31, 2011 11:51 PM (gcp0j)

324 Who is this Bill Mitchell here, trying to sell us the magic beans?

Newsflash, pal, it was not this abortion of a deal that made alleged budget cutting part of the national conversation or whatever. It was the fact we are running out of buyers credulous enough to stand in front of the firehouse spewing treasury bonds at 150psi. That is really all it is.

So, our feckless "leaders" came together to decide to take a turn on the valve and knock it down to 149 psi, and probably mostly by screwing the military, as usual.

What a glorious victory for Bill and the rest of the handwringers.

P.S. Who will be the first twat to belch the usual "well, Defense needs to be cut, too" cliches?

Yeah, sorry, but I would have to see some actual cuts in something besides Defense to fall for that trick this time.


Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 01, 2011 12:02 AM (agD4m)

325 #271 Batchelor is a swarmy New York hack with a radio show who purports to be some kind of conservative. Not as bad as that other jerkoff, Mark Simone, but close.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at August 01, 2011 12:05 AM (agD4m)

326 318 The current baseline (assuming expiration in December 2012) means that CBO would score a tax hike as a tax hike, which means it would not go towards deficit reduction.

Posted by: 80sBaby at August 01, 2011 12:05 AM (o2lIv)

327 The only person who is going to like this deal is Obama because he desperately wants to put off another debt hike debate beyond the '12 elections.

Nah. This guarantees that the topic will be front and center at every Presidential debate in 2012, where Obama will have to defend every spending program he and his party divined into making our debt what it is today.

Posted by: Kevin in ABQ at August 01, 2011 12:24 AM (x81hH)

328 Vote on joint committee* proposals are on December 23rd. The $900B is supposed to last Obama through February 2012.

*PowerPoint says joint, though it almost sound more like conference. They're unfortunately rather similar.

Posted by: 80sBaby at August 01, 2011 12:32 AM (o2lIv)

329 #326 You missed how this works in Washington:

Deficit Reduction can be accomplished through either Cutting Spending or Increasing Taxes.

When there is a Tax Increase the CBO assumes that it will raise X amount of revenue (That is why Obama code words his wish for Tax Hikes as increasing revenue). When you increase your revenue over baseline the CBO grades it as reducing the Deficit for that year.

Now the only way it would not count towards deficit reduction is if the CBO already scored it as part of the baseline (This is what i believe the CBO is doing with the expiration of the Bush tax cuts). If that is the case then that "tax increase" plays no role at all in stopping the commission from advocating more tax hikes.

Incase you haven't seen it the WSJ has stated that the "Super Committee" is to get the deficit reduction through some small cuts and through overhauling the Tax Code.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903520204576480123949521268.html

Now tell me the last time when the Dems ever overhauled the Tax code and supported lowering rates? I think we can figure out the Dems will not go for a flat tax, a Vat or anything else except raising the marginal rates (A tax increase).

Matter of fact Lindsay Graham of all people stated to Sean Hannity on FOX the exact same things I have been saying. There is nothing in this deal that prevents the 6 Dems on the Committee from insisting on Tax Increases and he believes that they are going to do as I stated: Hold the 50% of the Automatic cuts ($600 Bn) out of Defense over the GOP's head until they cave on tax hikes.

Posted by: boballab at August 01, 2011 12:47 AM (Tk16+)

330 329
#326 You missed how this works in Washington:



Deficit Reduction can be accomplished through either Cutting Spending or
Increasing Taxes...


The expiration of the Bush tax cuts is baked into the baseline because their budget window is 10yrs. They have to assume the Bush tax cuts will not be renewed next year. Now, they can say that amount goes towards deficit reduction, but raising taxes past that counts as a hike as compared to the current baseline because it already assumes the aforementioned expiration. CBO would have to cheat to not count it as a tax hike.

Moreover, it is not a "super-committee". It's been a bit questionable whether it's a joint committee or a conference committee, but further details suggest it is a joint committee.

Also, there was an article earlier that said the House resolved the matter about the trigger and it does not just refer to DoD. The Dems can pretend otherwise all they want but it doesn't change reality. Also, raising taxes 1yr out from an election would be risky. That's part of the reason why Obama extended the Bush tax cuts, is because it was politically smart to do so.

Posted by: 80sBaby at August 01, 2011 01:09 AM (o2lIv)

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Posted by: nvch4omu32 at August 01, 2011 01:21 AM (T1aqD)

332 More on taxes:

A GOP aide
authorized to speak on background explains: “CBO’s current law baseline
assumes millions of middle class families will be hit by the AMT and
also assumes large, across-the-board tax increases in 2013 (i.e., the
expiration of all 01/03 tax rates). With current law as the baseline to
measure deficit reduction, efforts by this Joint Committee to increase
revenue would not officially ‘reduce the deficit’ unless the proposed
tax increases are in excess of $3.5 trillion — in other words: tax hikes
aren’t going to be a part of this deal. Tax hikes on top of tax hikes
are a non-starter for the American people. This exercise underscores the
painful folly on trying to chase ever-higher spending in Washington
with ever-higher tax hikes on job creators and American families.”

http://tinyurl.com/44btbbv


Now, it is perhaps possible that these several aides (or just one speaking to a handful of outlets, as they did elsewhere?) are completely wrong, but that is the understanding.

Posted by: 80sBaby at August 01, 2011 01:28 AM (o2lIv)

333 #329

You still are not getting it. A Tax Hike counts as Deficit Reduction under CBO rules. According to the CBO when you raise taxes, you increase the revenue. When you increase the amount of revenue you borrow less. When you borrow less you reduce your deficit. So if the House, Senate or WH proposes a bill that has a Tax Hike in it the CBO will score it as raising X amount of revenue per year, over a 5 year period and a 10 year period (That is how the CBO operates) and reducing that years deficit by X amount, the deficits over 5 years and the deficits over 10 years.

Again Deficit Reduction =/= Spending Cuts.

If the committee can not reach agreement or the Congress doesn't pass what they agree on or send a BBA to the states $1.2 Trillion in cuts will go in effect. The WSJ states the 50% of that total, $600 Bn, comes from Defense. The other 50% is broken up through other programs including Medicare.

Again I'm not the only one saying this, Senators and Congressmen from both parties are stating on FOX that the committee can propose raising taxes as part of or the totality of the $1.5 trillion additional deficit reduction. Senators Mary Landrieu (D) stated to Greta van Sustren that her parties leadership told her tax Hikes are in the deal via the committee, which is the same thing that Senator Lindsay Graham (R) has stated to Sean Hannity.

As to your point about it being risky, that was only risky to Obama and the Dems because in 2010 there was nothing that would be forcing Republicans to vote for an increase. Now the Republicans will have a choice either go along with Dem tax Hikes or watch Defense get cut by $600 Bn. That gives Obama "Bipartisan" cover.

Posted by: boballab at August 01, 2011 01:35 AM (Tk16+)

334 WSJ Live Blog:


But there is a formidable barrier to raising taxes: the proposed
structure of the committee, which will have six Republican and six
Democratic lawmakers, and would need seven votes to advance a
recommendation. That would require one Republican agreeing to raise
taxes, unlikely in this political climate.
There's one detail in
the fine print that has important implications for tax policy: selecting
the yardstick to measure the committee's savings. According to a
presentation that House Speaker John Boehner (R., Ohio) sent to
lawmakers Sunday night, the yardstick--known as a budget baseline--would
be current law. This means the savings would reflect the expiration of
the Bush-era tax cuts, among other tax breaks slated to end. Because of
this, the joint committee's deficit reductions will be measured against a
yardstick that already assumes some key taxes have already gone up.

Using the current law baseline is "effectively making it impossible
for [the] Joint Committee to raise taxes," Boehner's presentation
claimed. This arrangement, while not making it impossible to raise
taxes, certainly makes it harder, according to a senior Senate aide and
other analysts.
Under the proposal, the relevant committees would
be able to make recommendations to the joint committee by Oct. 14,
according to the aide.
The joint committee would need to produce a
bill by late November, which would be evaluated by Congress' official
budget score keepers, the Congressional Budget Office and the Joint
Committee on Taxation.
The bill's tax provisions would then be
sent to the Senate Finance and Ways and Means Committees, who couldn't
amend it, but could vote whether to advance the report.

Posted by: 80sBaby at August 01, 2011 01:38 AM (o2lIv)

335 #332

That "Greater than $3.5 trillion tax hike" line is nothing but spin and a talking point. Remember they (and you) already stated that $3.5 trillion is included in the baseline. What the committee has to do is find additional deficit reduction in the amount of $1.5 Trillion. That $3.5 Trillion is already off the table if it is in the baseline and plays no part, it has no effect. The committee just has to propose an additional $1.5 Trillion in increased revenue by bumping up the top marginal rate. Remember your baseline is your starting point and anything in it does not add or subtract from anything additional to it. So, no the committee does not need to recommend tax hikes greater then $3.5 Trillion.

The expiration of the Bush tax cuts have no effect what so ever on what the Committee can do. The deal contains no language that bars tax increases.

Posted by: boballab at August 01, 2011 01:46 AM (Tk16+)

336 333
#329
You still are not getting it. A Tax Hike counts as Deficit Reduction
under CBO rules...

I'm not disagreeing with that; what I'm saying is that it does not count in the same way this time due to Boehner's insistence on the current baseline. Furthermore, even if the Dems attempted to cheat on that point, they would have to get at least 1 vote to raise taxes, then get the measure through Ways Means. It's hard to see how that would pass the House, too, unless the Rs were so completely boxed-in that they decided to ignore their most fervent pledge.




If the committee can not reach agreement or the Congress doesn't pass
what they agree on or send a BBA to the states $1.2 Trillion in cuts
will go in effect. The WSJ states the 50% of that total, $600 Bn, comes
from Defense. The other 50% is broken up through other programs
including Medicare....


The reports I've read say they fixed the trigger to make it more even, though there is disagreement over whether it's security spending (DoD plus other agencies) for Tranche #1 or Tranche #2. The statements from the House Rs do not seem to match what these senators are saying on TV, so a statement from someone who worked on this and/or the legislation itself would be most helpful.




As to your point about it being risky, that was only risky to Obama and
the Dems because in 2010 there was nothing that would be forcing
Republicans to vote for an increase. Now the Republicans will have a
choice either go along with Dem tax Hikes or watch Defense get cut by
$600 Bn. That gives Obama "Bipartisan" cover.

That's an interesting point but I must ask myself whether they cut some of their most beloved programs in exchange for members on the joint committee caving. It's possible, but it depends on which bloc of voters they prefer. You would think they would be careful due to MediScare, though they would obviously turn this against the Rs and their "stubbornness".

But we still have the issue of CBO scoring from the current baseline, which the Rs specifically requested in part because it was seen as a fail-safe against tax increases. The Dems are always eager to raise taxes, that is true, but the state of the economy would also factor-into their decision. Sometimes electoral politics thwarts their ambitions.

Posted by: 80sBaby at August 01, 2011 02:00 AM (o2lIv)

337 #334

I hope you noticed what the Senate Aid stated: It does not take make it impossible as Boehner Claimed just harder. However go back to the composition of the committee and then follow the "triggers" if there is a deadlock.

So we got 6 hardcore Lib Dems appointed by Reid and 6 establishment Republicans (maybe 1 Tea party back Repub do not expect more). The hard line Dems demand tax Increases and do not budge. Now all it takes is for 1 of those establishment Repubs to go wobbly and cave in. This wouldn't be hard to do because he/she would have good cover:

1. The House can vote the thing down
2. If the Committee deadlocks then the first trigger for the automatic spending cuts go into effect.

So now lets say the committee on a 7 to 5 margin proposes tax hikes. Now the Republicans in the House have to make a choice:

1. Vote for a Tax increase. How well will that play to the GOP base?
or
2. Vote it down and hope like hell the Senate will pass a BBA to the states or Defense gets cut by $600 Bn over 10 years. If the Senate doesn't pass a BBA to the states the GOP is on the hook for a huge cut in defense with smaller cuts to the main entitlement programs. How well is that going to pay with the base?

Now lets follow if the committee deadlocks 6 to 6 and does not make a recommendation by the Thanksgiving recess:

Both Houses have to vote and pass a BBA and send it to the states or again Defense gets cut by $600 Bn over 10 years. If the BBA passes the GOP is saved if it doesn't they are on the hook for gutting defense by $600 Bn over 10 years. Now how well does that pay to the GOP base?

Remember there is only 3 possible outcomes from the Committee and 2 of them favor the Dems. To get the Dem favorable ones all the Dems have to do is stick together and not vote for any Repub proposal.

Posted by: boballab at August 01, 2011 02:02 AM (Tk16+)

338 #336

No, they didn't get that changed. 50% of the cuts come from Defense and it is in the Boehner power point. It states that the automatic cuts would be evenly split between Defense Spending and Non Defense spending.
http://www.speaker.gov/UploadedFiles/3-7-31-11-Debt-Framework-Boehner.pdf

If they had been able to get it changed I wouldn't be as concerned but since they didn't they handed the Dems a version of the Sword Of Damocles to hang over their heads. Give them what they want or the Sword Drops and that is the whole point: If Boehner hadn't caved on the committee being able to propose tax hikes (he should have held on to where they could only propose specific spending cuts) and/or the even split between Defense and Non Defense spending (He should have held out for 25% from Defense, 12.5% from Medicare, 12.5% from Medicare and the last 25% spread through other programs) on the automatic cuts it would have been a GOP win.

Posted by: boballab at August 01, 2011 02:19 AM (Tk16+)

339 That second medicare should have been Social Security.

Posted by: boballab at August 01, 2011 02:22 AM (Tk16+)

340 335
#332
That "Greater than $3.5 trillion tax hike" line is nothing but spin and a
talking point. Remember they (and you) already stated that $3.5
trillion is included in the baseline. What the committee has to do is
find additional deficit reduction in the amount of $1.5 Trillion. That
$3.5 Trillion is already off the table if it is in the baseline and
plays no part, it has no effect. The committee just has to propose an
additional $1.5 Trillion in increased revenue by bumping up the top
marginal rate. Remember your baseline is your starting point and
anything in it does not add or subtract from anything additional to it.
So, no the committee does not need to recommend tax hikes greater then
$3.5 Trillion.



Both of us have read and heard sources saying contradictory things regarding this matter, but it does not mean one or the other is lying, just that it indicates confusion. Furthermore, the type of baseline (formed by assumptions and current policy) make all-the-difference in how CBO scores budgets and other such legislation. We have already seen this several times with the Boehner and Reid revisions versus the original bills. Boehner and Reid's last drafts both used the current baseline and that (among other things) helped change the score. Under that baseline, CBO scores the elimination of the Bush tax cuts as tax hikes, since that's what they are. Any other measure that similarly raises taxes counts as an additional tax increase (on top of the $3.5T). This eliminates the idea of an ambiguous baseline as well. So CBO can guess at the amount of revenue this would bring-in but their report will still show this as a massive tax increase.

Posted by: 80sBaby at August 01, 2011 02:27 AM (o2lIv)

341 Note.... CIVIL Fed Worker Salaries are off the table... even though they on average make much more than non Gov Workers...
Who is the Master, who is the Servant...

Posted by: Romeo13 at August 01, 2011 02:48 AM (NtXW4)

342 337
#334
...So we got 6 hardcore Lib Dems appointed by Reid and 6 establishment
Republicans (maybe 1 Tea party back Repub do not expect more). The hard
line Dems demand tax Increases and do not budge.

Boehner appoints 3, Pelosi appoints 3, Reid appoints 3, and McConnell appoints 3. McConnell is more likely to to appoint an Establishment R but Boehner less so.


Now all it takes is for
1 of those establishment Repubs to go wobbly and cave in. This wouldn't
be hard to do because he/she would have good cover:
[...] So now lets say the committee on a 7 to 5 margin proposes tax hikes. Now
the Republicans in the House have to make a choice:
[...]



So according to Boehner's PowerPoint, both the joint committee and the BBA are required, but it's an either/or for Obama to receive his debt increase. Sequestration would occur (in FY 2013-2021 budget resolutions) if Congress either failed to pass the recommendations or if they did not send a BBA to the states. However, sequestration only occurs if the committee fails to produce $1.2T in deficit reduction, which is also defined in the same sentence as spending cuts-- the primary headline being "Entitlement reforms and savings". Which of these terms are the primaries? I need to read the actual bill.





Both Houses have to vote and pass a BBA and send it to the states or
again Defense gets cut by $600 Bn over 10 years. If the BBA passes the
GOP is saved if it doesn't they are on the hook for gutting defense by
$600 Bn over 10 years. Now how well does that pay to the GOP base?
[...]

I think they honestly have a higher chance of passing a BBA than any of the other options, especially if it is the '95 version.




Remember there is only 3 possible outcomes from the Committee and 2 of
them favor the Dems. To get the Dem favorable ones all the Dems have to
do is stick together and not vote for any Repub proposal.

Since it's highly unlikely the House would vote for tax increases, the most likely outcome (if the Dems plan to stall) is sequestration. But that hurts them and their base as well. I also think that cuts to entitlements would be seen worse publicly than cuts to defense, since there is this bizarre public notion that defense is one of the primary drivers of the debt. You can also find some Rs in Congress who would also have few problems making cuts to the Pentagon. I remain strongly opposed to the idea of gutting defense at such a time, but it seems it unfortunately wouldn't hurt the Rs as much as it should.

Posted by: 80sBaby at August 01, 2011 02:51 AM (o2lIv)

343 #340

I'm not disagreeing that CBO would score it as a tax increase but the point is in Washington economic terms (not to be confused with normal economic terms), when it comes to Deficit reduction, CBO scores a Tax Hike the same as a Spending Cut (reduction in reality). Both of them will reduce the deficit the same amount just by doing it a different way.

Think of it this:

The CBO tells you, you must fill a container (spending) full of apples (revenues through taxes). They don't care what size container it is, it just has to be full.

Now you just so happen to have 50 Apples and put them into a container you have. When you do that you find out that it doesn't fill the container. At that point you got two choices:

1. Get more Apples (Raise revenue through tax hikes)

or

2. Get a smaller container (cut spending)

To the CBO it doesn't matter how it is done all they care about is that *a container is full* either the original big one or a newer small one.

Posted by: boballab at August 01, 2011 02:56 AM (Tk16+)

344 338
#336
I saw that in the PowerPoint but I also read this about the "firewall", etc.:



“Sequestration”

The second issue regarding defense is in the ‘trigger’ or
‘contingency.’ The point of the ‘backstop’ is that it isn’t supposed to
be used.
•Any savings from the Joint Committee would reduce the
amount of the sequestration (dollar-for-dollar).
•Even if the committee failed to produce a single dollar in
savings, Defense would be on the hook for less than $500 billion over
nine years, beginning in 2013.
•FY 2012 would not be affected under any circumstances,
•If this occurs - Congress, and the President (whether Obama
or his successor), could replace the Defense reductions with other
spending reductions.
•And, again, the point of the ‘backstop’ is that it never,
ever happens.
Conversely, this piece says that the above only refers to the first $900B:
"In the compromise, they kept Reid's firewall, but they defined the idea
of "security" spending more broadly so that it didn't hit the Pentagon
budget quite as hard. Under the Reid plan, 'security' only included the
Department of Defense and Veterans' Affairs. Republicans assumed
Democrats wouldn't actually cut veterans' benefits, so that effectively
all of the cuts would come from defense. The new 'security' category,
however, also includes foreign aid, Homeland Security, and additional
parts of the budget, meaning the cuts won't fall as heavily on defense.And just to be clear, this only applies to the first round of cuts,
which will accompany the initial debt limit increase. This shouldn't be
confused with the defense cuts that could be triggered if the joint
Congressional committee to find another round of cuts cannot come to an
agreement."


Who's right and who's wrong?


Posted by: 80sBaby at August 01, 2011 02:59 AM (o2lIv)

345 See, there are so many details floating around the Internet even from conservative outlets that it is impossible to make a firm judgment call on the more controversial aspects of the bill without having actually read the legislation.

Posted by: 80sBaby at August 01, 2011 03:01 AM (o2lIv)

346 #342

The whole "Sequestration" part makes it even worse. That whole scheme came from Gramm-Rudman and it is a joke because Congress can easily get past it by declaring something an emergency. It also never worked int the past while the act was in effect in it's various forms.

So when they start down that line, grab the lube your about to get bent over the table and used.

Posted by: boballab at August 01, 2011 03:10 AM (Tk16+)

347 343
#340
I'm not disagreeing that CBO would score it as a tax increase but the
point is in Washington economic terms (not to be confused with normal
economic terms), when it comes to Deficit reduction, CBO scores a Tax
Hike the same as a Spending Cut (reduction in reality). Both of them
will reduce the deficit the same amount just by doing it a different
way...


They can simultaneously count it as deficit reduction and adding to the deficit. This has always been bizarre to me-- the constantly changing requested baseline changes how they score because there is no constant universal yardstick. I'm not talking about policy changes, since they obviously have to make adjustments for those, but some of their methods are absolutely ridiculous and sometimes downright contradictory. E.g., in the first report Boehner submitted, they used several different baselines but one primary. The second time, he asked for the current baseline score.

Posted by: 80sBaby at August 01, 2011 03:11 AM (o2lIv)

348 346
#342
The whole "Sequestration" part makes it even worse. That whole scheme
came from Gramm-Rudman and it is a joke because Congress can easily get
past it by declaring something an emergency. It also never worked int
the past while the act was in effect in it's various forms.



So when they start down that line, grab the lube your about to get bent
over the table and used.


Let's assume they ignore it. The Rs would not even have to worry about choosing between taxes and defense cuts. Moreover, Obama would not receive his last debt ceiling increase because the guidelines would have not been fulfilled. So we would return to square 1.

Posted by: 80sBaby at August 01, 2011 03:15 AM (o2lIv)

349 @gopleader schedule for tomorrow includes
"Likely Consideration of Legislation Relating to the Debt Limit"

Posted by: 80sBaby at August 01, 2011 03:18 AM (o2lIv)

350 #344

Your second link looks more like everything else I have seen. Everything I have seen about the committee (including Boehners PP) states that 50% of the automatic cuts goes to defense, but what it also does is lowers the increase in the second round of Debt Ceiling Increase from $1.5 Trillion to $1.2 Trillion.

On page 6 of the PP it says that Obama can get a $1.5 Trillion increase on the ceiling if a Committee proposal is made and passes both Houses and signed by the Pres or the BBA is sent to the states.

On Page 7 of the PP it says that Obama can only get up to a $1.2 Trillion debt ceiling increase if the stuff from Page 6 doesn't happen and that the automatic cuts have to make up the difference between what the committee proposes and 41.2 trillion.

In other words if the committee proposes nothing then its and automatic $1.2 Trillion across the board cuts. If the committee proposes less then $1.2 trillion in deficit reduction and it is enacted then the automatic cuts will be the difference between $1.2T and what the committee proposed.

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Posted by: rennee at August 01, 2011 04:13 AM (dacYQ)

352 Too complicated folks, the media will get to interpert this the proles. The penny plan sounds better.

So, the Bush tax cuts just die with a whimper?

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