Deal? Boehner Says 50-50 For Debt Increase Deal By Saturday

Ed thinks maybe Obama has laid down a marker -- $4 trillion in cuts -- that requires him to be on board with entitlement reforms.

I don't think so. Remember, Obama months ago claimed he had $4 trillion in cuts in mind... over a 12 year window (not the typical 10 year window used for long-term budgeting). And his method of getting to $4 trillion was in unspecified cuts to Medicare (funny how the media never seems to want to report how much Obama and the Democrats claim to want to cut Medicare) and general horseshit like increased tax revenues from the 4%+ growth we're apparently going to have for the next 12 years.

Oh, and of course "spending reductions in the tax code," in his not-felicitous phraseology. That is, increased taxes, which he prefers to call "spending reductions," by ending a welter of deductions for both businesses and individual filers.

So is Obama moving at all? Based on this made-up number of $4 trillion, no, I see no movement.

But Boehner thinks they might be close. Peter King says it's better than 50-50.

Ed speculates that there might be some deliberate expectations-raising going on here to pressure the Democrats to come to terms, an attempt to maybe change the Narrative about who exactly it is who won't compromise.

Alas, I haven't seen a lot of that sort of gamesmanship from Boehner.

We Could Easily Operate Within The Current Debt Ceiling For Some Time. So says Senator Ron Johnson.

“I’ve been on the unsecured creditor side of a customer going bankrupt,” he said. “If you come to me as an unsecured creditor in a bankruptcy situation where the customer is going through a reorganization and you say, ‘Secured creditors are getting dollar for dollar — that’s interest on the debt, that’s Social Security. The rest of you guys, until we get this figured out, will basically get 60 cents on the dollar. Once we go through the reorganization, once we get this figured out, you’ll probably get 98 cents on the dollar.’ I’d be going, ‘That’s a sweet deal.’ I’d do that in an instant.”

Here's something. Obama says that not reaching a deal will panic the markets.

It will.

But why will it?

Because Obama and his cronies are putting out the word every single day that no deal means a default.

And who, meanwhile, is attempting to reassure markets that a failure to broker a deal does not mean a default?

The Republicans.

So yes, the market will panic, because they're listening to the man who is deliberately attempting to panic them and possibly collapse the world economy... as a negotiating strategy.

More on that conference call from John McCormack. Johnson characterizes the secret nature of these negotiations as "disgusting" and "outrageous."


Posted by: Ace at 12:54 PM



Comments

1
Huge mistake.

Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 12:55 PM (G/zuv)

2 Great, so when I can expect my ex post facto tax bill?

With this administration, I wouldn't be surprised by getting a bill for "back taxes" all the way back to '09.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at July 07, 2011 12:57 PM (8y9MW)

3
So the Republicans are going to fold like cheap suits again.
Figures.

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth at July 07, 2011 12:57 PM (EOxFP)

4 It's 50-50 because the GOP is moving. Dumbasses. They have all the leverage. All of it.
$500B increase in the debt limit in exchange for full repeal of Obamacare.
That's all. No negotiations.

Posted by: Truman North at July 07, 2011 12:57 PM (K2wpv)

5
And I'll tell you why.

There is absolutely no justification for any sort of tax hike when the govt is spending money on such things as $7M to hook up broadband internet one house in Montana.


Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 12:57 PM (G/zuv)

6
Ed Morrissey.

At least he's consistent.

Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 12:58 PM (G/zuv)

7
Ed, you dunce.

Obama's idea of cutting $4T goes like this: Instead of increasing the deficit by $10T over x years, he'll only increase it by $6T.

Good deal, eh, Ed?

Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 12:59 PM (G/zuv)

8 Boehner needs to go.

Posted by: nickless at July 07, 2011 12:59 PM (MMC8r)

9
Honestly - THERE IS NO BUDGET. How can the Dems have the gall to ask for a debt limit increase when nobody has the first clue where the money is going in the first place?
I mean, if a person doesn't pay their credit card bill but keeps running it up to its limit, then calls the CC company to request an increase in their spending limit, AT SOME POINT the CC company is going to tell them "no".
Come on, Pubbies - time to say "no". The CC company - aka the American taxpayer - has had enough....

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth at July 07, 2011 01:00 PM (EOxFP)

10 $4 trillion in cuts over 12 years is $300 billion per year. Our current deficits are in excess of $1.5 trillion per year. Try again.

Posted by: Vashta.Nerada at July 07, 2011 01:02 PM (u3fg7)

11
Ed is too dense to realize that, for example, instead of Obama wasting $50B on high-speed rail, he'll only waste $45B on high-speed rail.


Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 01:02 PM (G/zuv)

12 There is absolutely no justification for any sort of tax hike when the
govt is spending money on such things as $7M to hook up broadband
internet one house in Montana.

FTFY.

We'll take in about 17 - 19% of GDP (almost) no matter what the tax-code says (until unless we start taxing the so-called poor (who often have better stuff than I do)). We'll we're right in that range now (or thereabouts) so tax hikes are not going to change the score. Only spending reductions (actual spending reductions: you know spending less money) will help with the budgetary problems we have.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at July 07, 2011 01:03 PM (8y9MW)

13 "spending reductions in the tax code"
I loathe this Orwellian bullshit. Letting people keep some of their money by allowing a deduction from income is not government "spending." But a "tax increase" doesn't test well with focus groups while "spending reduction" does. So let's just call it something it isn't to palliate the proles.
Maybe we can call the Libyan war a "peaceimposition."

Posted by: Cicero at July 07, 2011 01:03 PM (QKKT0)

14
Gotta close those loopholes, though.

Need money for broadband in Montana.

Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 01:03 PM (G/zuv)

15 Take the deal! Take the deal !!!!

Posted by: David "Big Boy Pants" Brooks at July 07, 2011 01:03 PM (so1xa)

16 Why does the Republican party exist?

Posted by: goodrichard at July 07, 2011 01:03 PM (3H2dZ)

17 watch we find out that the 4 trillion in cuts is "future spending", kinda like the gimmick last time.
We will get fooled again!

Posted by: Ben at July 07, 2011 01:03 PM (wuv1c)

18 I hope Rush rallies the troops. This is idiotic. I guess November 2010 didn't happen.
How hard is it to cut spending back to pre-bailout levels? How can the GOP even think that more spending and more taxes are an option?

Posted by: joeindc44 at July 07, 2011 01:04 PM (QxSug)

19 Now Harry Reid is saying that Republicans are risking the faith and credit of the United States and the World for people who can afford *private jets* and yachts.

They had to have poll tested this private jet nonsense.

Posted by: Johnny at July 07, 2011 01:04 PM (mhmc7)

20 9
Honestly - THERE IS NO BUDGET.

Didn't the WH produce an 8 page budget? Kind of like handing in an 8 page thesis for your Doctorate. Smartest man ever!!!

Posted by: Sub-Tard at July 07, 2011 01:04 PM (0M3AQ)

21 The thing that jumped out at me from the White House transcript last night was that Obama pretty much said “The Republicans have a plan, I have a framework, and the Democrats have nothing.”

Which certainly fits in with his general attempts at staying above the fray, but does leave his obvious allies hanging in the wind in this fight.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at July 07, 2011 01:05 PM (QF8uk)

22 Why does the Republican Party exist?

...thinking...

Posted by: Truman North at July 07, 2011 01:05 PM (K2wpv)

23 I'm going to inform my boss that I can no longer afford to spend the $50,000 that he isn't paying me in salary. My spending reductionwill require him to pay the 50 grand to me forthwith.

Posted by: Cicero at July 07, 2011 01:05 PM (QKKT0)

24 But a "tax increase" doesn't test well with focus
groups while "spending reduction" does.

Posted by: Cicero at July 07, 2011 01:03 PM

fappa fappa fappa fappa fappa

Posted by: Luntz's Dunces at July 07, 2011 01:05 PM (so1xa)

25
For the love of pete, will someone in the Senate please stand up and tell that cocksucker Harry Reid that WE WANT rich people to buy shit like jets and yachts.


Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 01:06 PM (G/zuv)

26 How can the GOP even think that more spending and more taxes are an option?

Because the GOP believes the MFM still controls The Narrative (which it still sways, but I don't think it has actual control anymore). So, when the MFM says, "Republicans want to kill Gramma!" the Republicans think everyone actually believes that. And, as politicians, they're far more interested in getting re-elected (and all the cash, perks, and acclaim that come with that) than they are in actually representing their constituents.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at July 07, 2011 01:06 PM (8y9MW)

27 16
Why does the Republican party exist?

Posted by: goodrichard at July 07, 2011 01:03 PM

The Harlem Globetrotters have to play SOMEBODY

Posted by: kbdabear at July 07, 2011 01:07 PM (so1xa)

28 yeah, $4Trillion in cuts in future spending, spending that would be impossible to do anyway since no one will buy our debt except ourselves, which we're doing now anyway.

How about $1.5 trillion in cuts to current spending.

Posted by: joeindc44 at July 07, 2011 01:07 PM (QxSug)

29 Boehner... drop your fucking purse !

Posted by: The Jackhole at July 07, 2011 01:08 PM (+qHxi)

30 It's going to be a debt ceiling deal via Twitter.

Posted by: SlaveDog at July 07, 2011 01:08 PM (9fDAi)

31 They keep saying 4 T$ but over what period? If it is any longer than 1 budget (2 years) and they don't tell you what window it is, then they are being deliberately misleading.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at July 07, 2011 01:09 PM (0q2P7)

32 The update about Johnson is a good one, I think. I make a good point.

I have to note this rarity when it happens.

Posted by: ace at July 07, 2011 01:10 PM (nj1bB)

33 Posted by: joeindc44 at July 07, 2011 01:07 PM (QxSug)

To quote C-3P0: "No! Shut them all down!"

What I really wish is that Republicans would go out in droves to explain that they want to reform Medicare into something that might actually survive, but that Democrats would rather let it destroy itself (as it will currently do) than lift a finger to fix it. And I wish they would repeat that fact every chance they get until people start to accept that actual reform to Medicare is necessary.

And, before the oldster's jump in: Yes, Medicaid is a bigger deal. But if you can convince people on Medicare, Medicaid wouldn't be far behind. The reverse is not necessarily true.

As Ace pointed out yesterday.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at July 07, 2011 01:11 PM (8y9MW)

34 Proactive claims of defeat. Seems like Obama's strategy is working on some people.

I think I'll wait to see the deal before I proclaim we lost.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 07, 2011 01:11 PM (TMB3S)

35 My father worked TWO JOBS to have money to throw in the Money Hole!

Posted by: That old black lady in the Onion Video at July 07, 2011 01:11 PM (MMC8r)

36 Why does the Republican party exist?
It's for the elephants.

Posted by: Cicerokid at July 07, 2011 01:12 PM (xa25/)

37 There's no reason why we need to raise the debt ceiling to pay our debts. We take in about $200B per month according to Rush. It's just how we choose to spend that money that puts us in danger of not covering our obligations.

Posted by: Truman North at July 07, 2011 01:12 PM (K2wpv)

38 "With this administration, I wouldn't be surprised by getting a bill for 'back taxes' all the way back to '09."

Should that ever happen, I think the odds are pretty good that history will someday remember Wesley Snipes as a man about five measly years ahead of his time.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 07, 2011 01:12 PM (cbyrC)

39 I make a good point.



I have to note this rarity when it happens.

Finally. Something funny.

Posted by: Cherry π at July 07, 2011 01:12 PM (OhYCU)

40 I sense a 50-50 chance that I will be anally probed by Saturday.

Posted by: Cherry π at July 07, 2011 01:13 PM (OhYCU)

41
Is Senator Johnson talking like the US is bankrupt?

Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 01:13 PM (G/zuv)

42 Rand Paul put it well on CNN last night when talking to that chowdahead John King. I'm paraphrasing, but his basic point is that anything short of actual, defined cuts and budgets can't be trusted to future Congresses.

Posted by: jakeman at July 07, 2011 01:14 PM (POByM)

43 Why is Boehner even there? The Housealready passed a budget. Repubs should tell Reid to meet with the President and pass their budget. THEN we can meet to make a deal.

Posted by: The Schwalbe: © at July 07, 2011 01:14 PM (UU0OF)

44 Ahh yes, Republican tax cuts. How much are they going to cost us this time?

Posted by: dogfish at July 07, 2011 01:15 PM (NuPNl)

45


Ahh, republicans. Nothing like snatching defeat from the jaws of almost certain victory.

It's positively French, this talent. Goes all the way back to Lincoln and Burnside, mnd you. It's historical.


Posted by: imp at July 07, 2011 01:15 PM (QvKY+)

46 Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 07, 2011 01:12 PM (cbyrC)

Okay, I was engaging in a little bit of hyperbole. I don't really think they'd do that. Because I really do think that would cause an immediate uproar which could very easily lead to insurrection.

Unconstitutional insurance mandate? To too many, it's not a big deal: they were going to buy insurance anyway. Unconstitutional Ex Post Facto law that ALSO makes them pay taxes (and you KNOW they'd include 'interest and penalties')? Well, there are enough people already who don't like the IRS.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at July 07, 2011 01:15 PM (8y9MW)

47 Why o why can't we just toss the entire bunch out and start over?

Posted by: Harry at July 07, 2011 01:16 PM (WaLT2)

48 We need to get rid of the old guard. Let's the freshman republicans take control I think they actually want to fix things. The Boehners, McConnells, et al want business as usual.

Posted by: Ben at July 07, 2011 01:16 PM (wuv1c)

49 Fox was reporting as little as an hour ago that the Republicans say there are NO votes in the House for a tax increase. So what is going on here.

They are going to raise the debt limit for more "unspecified cuts" 10 to 12 years down the road? More magic frakin beans?

Primary them all if they do.

Posted by: Vic at July 07, 2011 01:16 PM (M9Ie6)

50 Primary them all if they do.
Primary them all anyway.

Posted by: Truman North at July 07, 2011 01:18 PM (K2wpv)

51 I sense a 50-50 chance that I will be anally probed by Saturday.

Meh; I live in California, you could run a high speed train up there and I'd be lucky if I felt a tickle.

I'll be honest. I'm getting used to being let down by Boehner. Maybe being a pussy is his style. Unless he comes up with something huge, I'm going to want him gone. He will *never* have as much leverage over Obama than he has right now.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at July 07, 2011 01:18 PM (0q2P7)

52 I have a link on the side bar about how the Treasury is making contigency plans if the debt ceiling doesn't pass. One of which is finding out if the President can ignore it.

Posted by: Ben at July 07, 2011 01:19 PM (wuv1c)

53 I promise not to do it again. Kick the football Charlie Boehner.

Posted by: Lucy Obama at July 07, 2011 01:19 PM (NuPNl)

54 Fast and Furious is the real story. This debt thing is a sideshow.

Posted by: Truman North at July 07, 2011 01:19 PM (K2wpv)

55 43 Why is Boehner even there? The Housealready passed a budget. Repubs should tell Reid to meet with the President and pass their budget. THEN we can meet to make a deal.


It is my understanding that procedural budget integrity was waived because its not fun andmeans work andsuch. Better to go with a "framework" and let the little people figure it out. I believe the new "framework" is for more taxes. Just sayin.

Posted by: Sub-Tard at July 07, 2011 01:19 PM (0M3AQ)

56 We will collapse. Not one person in Congress gives a shit.

Posted by: Jumbo Jogging Shrimp at July 07, 2011 01:19 PM (qjUnn)

57 Unconstitutional Ex Post Facto law that ALSO makes them pay taxes

yeah, one would think that would really piss people off, but as it turns out, not so much....

Posted by: Former Prez Bill Clinton at July 07, 2011 01:20 PM (3Okgs)

58
I haven't been a big TEA Party type, but with this I completely understand because I'm seeing RED! I don't think the Republicans understand that at this point we can't afford to compromise with these lying bastards.
If I were Boener I would have started with $3.75 TRILLIONin cuts and every time I was turned down I'd add another $250 BILLION plus conditions.
At this point the numbers are incomprehensible anyway. The first time I recall TRILLION used in the course of talking about the budget was with the TARP, and now that we've passed that threshhold talking about a TRILLION is bandied about like it's the magnitude we need to stay at when talking about government expendatures and a BILLION is chickenfeed, not even a rounding error. That's why for these fools aMILLION dollars to set up broadband is of absolutely no significance whatsoever. It's not real.
All the democrats want is the authority to spend and to spend more. How much? Not an issue, just more.

Posted by: Minuteman at July 07, 2011 01:20 PM (hbAPu)

59 4T this year is a good start, maybe boner can negoiate to 5T

Posted by: Jean at July 07, 2011 01:21 PM (3FXA5)

60 Boehner's going to get less than nothing and Barry's going to get the bulk of what he wants.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 07, 2011 01:21 PM (FkKjr)

61 I'm going to need to see some details, because my Spider Sense is telling me it's a backloaded POS.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at July 07, 2011 01:22 PM (B+qrE)

62 We promise to hold the line on spending when there's a Republican President. Now, can I spend more money?

Posted by: Barry Unserious at July 07, 2011 01:22 PM (FcR7P)

63 >>...because they're listening to the man who is deliberately attempting to
panic them and possibly collapse the world economy... as a negotiating
strategy.<<
Obama isn't smart enough to collapse the world economy.

On the other hand, if he were trying not to collapse the world economy, chances would be good.

Posted by: SlaveDog at July 07, 2011 01:22 PM (9fDAi)

64 Boehner as not told the House R Conference everything about a potential deal, so I'm not going to assume anything until they hold a meeting. Besides, we repeatedly had supposed deals on the FY '11 CR and it still went down to the wire. The Conference has the final say.

Posted by: '80sBaby at July 07, 2011 01:23 PM (o2lIv)

65 We will collapse. Not one person in Congress gives a shit.

We have an official AoSHQ abbreviation for that for the sake of brevity.

DOOM!

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at July 07, 2011 01:24 PM (0q2P7)

66 Besides, we repeatedly had supposed deals on the FY '11 CR and it still went down to the wire.

Yeah, but the early leaks of the supposed deals were accurate in the final amount cut.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 07, 2011 01:24 PM (FkKjr)

67 Every time I expected something good from the Repubs, I have been betrayed. I don't think the RINO establishment guys are capable of anything else.

Posted by: Hrothgar at July 07, 2011 01:25 PM (yrGif)

68 Counteroffer: we will raise the debt ceiling in twelve years if you cut spending now.

Posted by: t-bird at July 07, 2011 01:26 PM (FcR7P)

69 They keep saying 4 T$ but over what period? If it is any longer than 1 budget (2 years) and they don't tell you what window it is, then they are being deliberately misleading.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose

If this magical number is in the next year, then why would an increase in the debt ceiling be needed? If the ceiling increase is still 'needed', then the cuts are an illusion.

Any cuts insufficient to forstall raising the ceiling are, by definition, insufficient.

Posted by: Blue Hen at July 07, 2011 01:26 PM (6rX0K)

70 49
Fox was reporting as little as an hour ago that the Republicans say
there are NO votes in the House for a tax increase. So what is going on
here.

The Admin. used to be more agreeable when it came to tax reform, so maybe they have an agreement on that? You can raise revenues without raising rates.

Posted by: '80sBaby at July 07, 2011 01:27 PM (o2lIv)

71 Counteroffer: we will raise the debt ceiling in twelve years if you cut spending now.

Posted by: t-bird at July 07, 2011 01:26 PM (FcR7P)
This is why I waded through the comments!

Posted by: Hrothgar at July 07, 2011 01:27 PM (yrGif)

72 Nice, t-bird! I loled

Posted by: Truman North at July 07, 2011 01:27 PM (K2wpv)

73 Remember, Obama months ago claimed he had $4 trillion in cuts in mind... over a 12 year window (not the typical 10 year window used for long-term budgeting).

Last I heard, Barky was still talking about a 10-12 year window for the alleged cuts.
In any event, it doesn't matter. If the GOP didn't put the repeal of ObamaCare in with any debt limit rise (no more than half a trillion, on that) then the GOP has sold out. No surprise, of course, but still infuriating. The GOP actually think they can carry out other negotiations - for bullshit future cuts - with the most dishonest, disingenuous, lying sack of shit to ever occupy the Oval Office (or anything even close).
I am sooooooo much looking for a third party that it isn't funny. And it isn't.

Posted by: Henry Harold Humphries - you can call me 'H' at July 07, 2011 01:27 PM (6GZ1D)

74 Fox was reporting as little as an hour ago that the Republicans say there are NO votes in the House for a tax increase. So what is going on here.This wouldn't be the first time that Barky made claims about the future votes of others that were nothing but bald-faced lies. And, again, this is the sort of person that the GOP thinks they can "negotiate" with? LOL. You don't negotiate with terrorists. You present them with one option and that's it.

Posted by: Henry Harold Humphries - you can call me 'H' at July 07, 2011 01:29 PM (6GZ1D)

75 Actually, the only way to increase revenue is to lower marginal tax rates. Any talk about raising tax rates in order to raise more revenue is a lie.
Democrats don't want more revenue from the current batch of taxpaying voters. They'd rather take it from the future taxpaying voter, who cannot vote against them yet. Hence, more borrowing >>> more tax revenue for the Democrat.

Posted by: Truman North at July 07, 2011 01:29 PM (K2wpv)

76
in b4 the 3rd party talk

because that's exactly what the Democrats are hoping this theatrical production/con job will produce.


Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 01:29 PM (G/zuv)

77 Why do they continue to 'deal'? haven't they learned their lesson yet? You don't deal with a 'Goodfella'.......which is what JEF is.

Posted by: © Sponge at July 07, 2011 01:30 PM (UK9cE)

78 Obama isn't smart enough to collapse the world economy.

Dude; How much smarts do you think it would take at this point? The Eurozone is on the brink of dissolution, the dollar is set to inflate like a hot air balloon made to lift Michael Moore. China has totally F*cked their internal economic composition and can't survive without the western world. We are to the point that joe blow may get a $20 from an ATM, and as an avalanche send a bank into recevership, re-ignite the financial crisis, and send the whole f*ing thing down in flames. The question isn't whether O can destroy it, it's why in the hell is it still standing? And my only answer is happy thoughts are keeping this thing up. Because the foundation is totally gone.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at July 07, 2011 01:30 PM (0q2P7)

79 66
Yeah,
but the early leaks of the supposed deals were accurate in the final
amount cut.

Yes and no. The final number was either higher or lower depending on the source. They were also all over the place when it came to riders.

Posted by: '80sBaby at July 07, 2011 01:30 PM (o2lIv)

80 This wouldn't be the first time that Barky made claims about the future votes of others that were nothing but bald-faced lies. And, again, this is the sort of person that the GOP thinks they can "negotiate" with? LOL. You don't negotiate with terrorists. You present them with one option and that's it.
Posted by: Henry Harold Humphries - you can call me 'H'

Agreed. he can't use twitter without screwing it up, screening the questions, or getting the facts wrong. And someone expects him to suddenly deal in good and intelligent faith about the debt?
We'd be better declaring him a lame duck now, and expressing hope that we can work with an adult in 2012.

Posted by: Blue Hen at July 07, 2011 01:32 PM (6rX0K)

81 Fast and Furious is the real story. This debt thing is a sideshow.

Posted by: Truman North at July 07, 2011 01:19 PM (K2wpv)
Poppin' Fresh gets easily distracted.....

Posted by: Captain Hate at July 07, 2011 01:32 PM (bx1nP)

82 who is this poppin fresh? I always thought that was the old press secretary

Posted by: Truman North at July 07, 2011 01:33 PM (K2wpv)

83
hint: "in fairness"

Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 01:34 PM (G/zuv)

84 I sense there's a 50-50 chance the Tea Party will begin to grow exponentially on Saturday.

Posted by: Cherry π at July 07, 2011 01:34 PM (OhYCU)

85 With this administration, I wouldn't be surprised by getting a bill for "back taxes" all the way back to '09.

2009 or 1909?

Posted by: Brendan at July 07, 2011 01:34 PM (saRwI)

86 Obama isn't smart enough to collapse the world economy.Dude; How much smarts do you think it would take at this point? The Eurozone is on the brink of dissolution, the dollar is set to inflate like a hot air balloon made to lift Michael Moore. China has totally F*cked their internal economic composition and can't survive without the western world. We are to the point that joe blow may get a $20 from an ATM, and as an avalanche send a bank into recevership, re-ignite the financial crisis, and send the whole f*ing thing down in flames. The question isn't whether O can destroy it, it's why in the hell is it still standing? And my only answer is happy thoughts are keeping this thing up. Because the foundation is totally gone.
Posted by: MikeTheMoose

You should call yourself Mike The DooM; 'cause you just brought it. That was well done. I know this, 'cause I'm contemplating suicide by pudding.

Posted by: Blue Hen at July 07, 2011 01:35 PM (6rX0K)

87 I'm not going to jump to conclusions ...

BUT ...

This is it for me. This is the hill I die on. If the Republicans agree to some backloaded, smoke and mirrors bullshit, then I'm done with the party forever.

There's no better time to draw the line than right now. The GOP will never have an opportunity like this again. They hold almost all the cards.

History is calling. And if they get rolled by this two bit, chickenshit, affirmative action, lazy-ass, no-account fucking grifter...

If they let this thin skinned little fucking pussy stare them down ...and fold their cards ... and knowingly fuck their country to the point where we will never recover ...

Then we are beyond hope.

And I don't give a fuck about anyone or anything anymore other than me and mine.

Posted by: Warden at July 07, 2011 01:35 PM (KulgD)

88 Fuck

Posted by: Mr Pink at July 07, 2011 01:36 PM (9yiUD)

89 Warden: Many of us were there during the CR in March. So, welcome to the bandwagon.

Posted by: Truman North at July 07, 2011 01:37 PM (K2wpv)

90 Warden@87: This is it for me. This is the hill I die on. If the Republicans agree to some backloaded, smoke and mirrors bullshit, then I'm done with the party forever.

Make sure you tell them this now.

Posted by: Stephen Price Blair at July 07, 2011 01:38 PM (QF8uk)

91 Warden: Many of us were there during the CR in March. So, welcome to the bandwagon.
Posted by: Truman North

Sadly, I agree. We're going to succumb to the Twitter King? Really?

Posted by: Blue Hen at July 07, 2011 01:38 PM (6rX0K)

92 Does anyone have a link for the budget figures (by dept) for spending in 2007 or 2008 and the current fiscal year for comparison?

I know we are running a 1.7 Trillion dollar deficit, but how much of that is new spending (and for what?) and how much of that is reduced revenue due to the recession?

I know Defense has increased a lot in the last several years, but what else? Medicaid?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at July 07, 2011 01:39 PM (f9c2L)

93
Boehner: Tax reform 'under discussion' but GOP won't
allow hikes
"After the [conference] meeting, Boehner was asked if striking a deal that includes
an overhaul of the tax code was possible before the Aug. 2 deadline
that the Treasury Department has set for raising the $14.3 trillion
federal debt limit.
'We believe that comprehensive tax reform both
on the corporate side and on the personal side would make America more
competitive, help create jobs in our country and is something that is
under discussion,'Boehner said.
...Freshman Rep. Charlie Bass (R-N.H.) said Boehner did not divulge new
details on the debt talks at the GOP conference meeting. 'He’s playing
his cards pretty close to his chest,' Bass told The Hill."

Posted by: '80sBaby at July 07, 2011 01:40 PM (o2lIv)

94 I love Iowahawk lol
An $8 billion high speed train leaves Chicago for Iowa City at 8:15am at 40mph. Why?

Posted by: Truman North at July 07, 2011 01:41 PM (K2wpv)

95 water-boarding an option?

Posted by: Captain America at July 07, 2011 01:41 PM (GvYeG)

96 because that's exactly what the Democrats are hoping this theatrical production/con job will produce.

Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 01:29 PM (G/zuv)
Which is what Boehner should be mindful of when he thinks about making a deal.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at July 07, 2011 01:41 PM (FkKjr)

97 Bloody f'ing hell!!! If we are talking about dollar amounts, we already lost. Any number bigger than a million sounds like a lot to our stupid 52%ers. And getting bogged down in numbers means we will lose. Because while we know that anything less than several trillion in cuts today is BS, the stupids will see anything greater than $1million as a lot and they'll by the MBM spin that it's the GOP who refuses to negotiate.

If we had started with simple, easy to understand across-the-board percentage cuts--10% or even 5%, like many have been saying for months--we'd win this walking away.

Good gawd I hate these assholes who represent us.

Posted by: Jimmuy at July 07, 2011 01:41 PM (1IXMf)

98 It doesn't panic the markets that we might have to default, it panics the markets that Obama will engineer a default.

Posted by: AmishDude at July 07, 2011 01:42 PM (T0NGe)

99 You guy's remember the days when the Soviets used to play brinkmanship games with us?

Posted by: ASK-21 at July 07, 2011 01:44 PM (fdhm7)

100 Deal I(primarily) contingent on tax hikes:

"The speaker said it will be clear within the next few days whether an
agreement can be reached. 'Whether or not it’s possible depends on
whether the White House insists on tax hikes,' a GOP aide said.

But Boehner did acknowledge that revenue increases could, indeed, be
part of an agreement with the Obama adminsistration and congressional
Democrats — but not tax increases, according to several sources in the
room. New revenue could come from spectrum auctions, user fees and the
sale of un-usued federal lands, among other options."

Posted by: '80sBaby at July 07, 2011 01:46 PM (o2lIv)

101 Yeah.. but what's going on with Casey Anthony today?????

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at July 07, 2011 01:47 PM (f9c2L)

102 99 I remember Reagan walking out on Gorby ... suhweet!!

Posted by: Captain America at July 07, 2011 01:47 PM (GvYeG)

103 But now the Soviets are running our country. We should have let them stay in Russia.

Posted by: Cherry π at July 07, 2011 01:47 PM (OhYCU)

104
I don't get Boehner's act.

I like him but he's constantly drawing lines in the sand while he's walking backwards.


Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 01:47 PM (G/zuv)

105 enough with the Red on Red BS ... Obama can make stuff up no matter what the GOP leaders do ...
Boehner can't stop this and really why should he ... Obama is simply going farther and farther out on the limb ...

Posted by: Jeff at July 07, 2011 01:48 PM (A3tpD)

106 I can't help thinking the attack on Murdock has something to do with the approach of Aug 2. Can't quite see it yet.

Posted by: David at July 07, 2011 01:48 PM (/X2Wi)

107 If we had started with simple, easy to understand
across-the-board percentage cuts--10% or even 5%, like many have been
saying for months--we'd win this walking away.

Good gawd I hate these assholes who represent us.


Posted by: Jimmuy at July 07, 2011 01:41 PM (1IXMf)
Yep- it's all about perception. The MFM plays the same game with stock market reports. When a Democrat is in office and the market tanks they report that the "market was down 10%" (and they usually do it right before going to commercial). When a Republican is in office the same loss is reported as: "the market *plummeted* 1000 points".Same information, but a radically different impact.

Posted by: Nighthawk at July 07, 2011 01:48 PM (OtQXp)

108 So yes, the market will panic, because they're listening to the man who is deliberately attempting to panic them and possibly collapse the world economy...
The stupid ones already work for Obama. The rest can see thru his posturing. I don't expect any panic - that's been factored into the market already (see: Great Recession).

Posted by: Roy at July 07, 2011 01:49 PM (VndSC)

109
I don't know what the final deal will be.

But I do know this: At the end of day, NPR, Planned Abortionhood, and the EPA will be fully funded.

Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 01:50 PM (G/zuv)

110 News of the World is out? News of the World is out?

Posted by: Cherry π at July 07, 2011 01:51 PM (OhYCU)

111 T-bird for Speaker?

Posted by: Jean at July 07, 2011 01:51 PM (4jJCE)

112 4T this year is a good start, maybe boner can negoiate to 5T

Posted by: Jean at July 07, 2011 01:21 PM (3FXA5)


Is it wrong that this statement made me spew my Dr. Pepper all over my desk?

Boener NEGOTIATE!?! BWWWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!

Posted by: © Sponge at July 07, 2011 01:51 PM (UK9cE)

113 But I do know this: At the end of day, NPR, Planned Abortionhood, and the EPA will be fully funded.



Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 01:50 PM (G/zuv)
I really don't know which scares me more: runaway government expansion, or a downsizing of the government overseen by Barack Obama.

Posted by: Nighthawk at July 07, 2011 01:52 PM (OtQXp)

114 But now the Soviets are running our country. We should have let them stay in Russia.

Posted by: Cherry π at July 07, 2011 01:47 PM (OhYCU)
*weeps*

Posted by: WOLVERINES!!!! at July 07, 2011 01:52 PM (Zs83Q)

115 Why don't the Republicans link incremental tax increases to growth?

Yes it is purely symbolic, the growth that would trigger the tax increase would consist of "only" private sector jobs that would need to be verified by independent entities.Public sector jobs are absolutely not counted being they are obviously a drain on the tax payers money instead of being producers.

Say anyone making over 500k's tax bracket increases 1.25% for every 1% in job growth.
Those making 150-499 k have their taxes go up by .50 per 1% in job growth.
75-149k have theirs go up .25% for every 2% in job growth.
Those below 75k stay as they are.

The debt ceiling does not budge one increment upwards with a set rule that for every 1 dollar in, 2 dollars come out from somewhere else for any new programs that pop up out there.

Basically, forcing private sector job growth to allow the socialists to feel all giddy inside for their warped fairness factor that trumps everything based in reality.

For the record, I was bored and the thought crossed my mind, I'll vote against any incumbent who raises the debt cap or taxes without having ironclad structures set that reduces our debt in a realistic manner, pain would logically be involved to some degree.

Posted by: Drider at July 07, 2011 01:53 PM (HaJD9)

116 One of which is finding out if the President can ignore it.

Posted by: Ben at July 07, 2011 01:19 PM (wuv1c)
He is already ignoring it by using accounting gimmicks to hide the fact they have borrowed above the limit.

Posted by: Vic at July 07, 2011 01:53 PM (M9Ie6)

117 Wake me up when we get to the part where Boehner learns to fight again by training in Russia while the song Hearts on Fire plays.

Posted by: Mr Pink at July 07, 2011 01:53 PM (9yiUD)

118 In Soviet America, boner jerk you.

Posted by: Cherry π at July 07, 2011 01:53 PM (OhYCU)

119 Obama will attempt to "go big" to help his re-election bid. As for tax increases, it sounds like the Rs aren't budging at the moment. Also, Rep. Ryan raised a good point this morning about how the Dems already raised taxes by way of the Obamacare bill. The difficulty is that raising taxes "on the rich" plays with the American Idol crowd, so they'd likely support another tax increase.

Posted by: '80sBaby at July 07, 2011 01:57 PM (o2lIv)

120 enough with the Red on Red BS ... Obama can make stuff up no matter what the GOP leaders do ...
Posted by: Jeff at July 07, 2011 01:48 PM (A3tpD)
Yeah, you know what? About that 11th Commandment... remember how I said I didn't leave the Democratic Party, the party left me?

Posted by: Zombie Reagan at July 07, 2011 01:57 PM (Zs83Q)

121 "And general horseshit like increased tax revenues from the 4%+ growth we're apparently going to have for the next 12 years."

This is a bit off topic, but I'd be curious to see what kind of growth the US has experienced since '08 if we take Texas out of the equation.

Posted by: Lauren at July 07, 2011 01:59 PM (3M74G)

122 I just saved the country $7 million by using existing broadband service.

What can you do for your country?

Posted by: t-bird at July 07, 2011 02:00 PM (FcR7P)

123 So the Fed is going to panic and deflate the market that it's been floating for the past 2 1/2 years?

Posted by: garrett at July 07, 2011 02:00 PM (gUQdA)

124 Democrats are intrinsically dishonest. Any spending "cuts" they agree to will be illusory, especially phony cuts to Medicare providers, which can never be implemented (say, haven't we been here before? Why, yes, yes we have - several times - and the cuts NEVER come to pass).


Posted by: Adjoran at July 07, 2011 02:01 PM (VfmLu)

125
Out: Morning in America

In: Red Dawn

Posted by: Cherry π at July 07, 2011 02:01 PM (OhYCU)

126 Where's Nick Fury ???

Posted by: Captain America at July 07, 2011 02:01 PM (GvYeG)

127 i vote for no deal.............

Posted by: phoenixgirl at July 07, 2011 02:03 PM (Cm66w)

128
I just saved the country $7 million by using existing broadband service.





What can you do for your country?

Posted by: t-bird at July 07, 2011 02:00 PM (FcR7P)
Hey! I think you're on to something here- now let's see, if 200 million Americans ALL use existing broadband, at $7 million each.... anybody got a calculator?

Posted by: Joe Biden at July 07, 2011 02:03 PM (OtQXp)

129
any spending cuts that don't take effect in this fiscal cycle will never be seen, the next congress will simply legislate them out of existence.
i want specifics on exactly what is being cut or i am going to assume that nothing is really being cut.
they played this game on us last time, this time i'm looking for it right off the bat.
besides even if they make a deal for let's say 4 trillion over 12 years, that's only 300 billion a year, we are over spending every year by 5 times that.
we need to cut until we have enough money coming in to pay for everything WITHOUT BORROWING!
what part of that don't that don't these glad-handing fools understand?

Posted by: Shoey at July 07, 2011 02:04 PM (jdOk/)

130 They don't know how to win.

They are afraid of winning.

They can't win.

We call those people losers.

Fuck you RNC. You're full of shit.

If you can't tie debt limit increase with repeal of ObamaCare then you are Harry Reid's bitch. And our country is F.U.C.K.E.D. Thanks assholes. Thanks for playing their game.

Posted by: Dick at July 07, 2011 02:05 PM (qxcKC)

131 I'm surprised the Republicans have held out this long. You can't deny the utility of a solid majority. If this was up to the Senate, McCain would have formed another Gang of Blue Falcons with the Mainetards and that Scott Brown pussy.

They'd be high-fiving each other at "negotiating" their way to a tax hike and doubling the debt ceiling.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at July 07, 2011 02:05 PM (lbo6/)

132 brb, panicing the bond markets

Posted by: president say stuff at July 07, 2011 02:07 PM (GTbGH)

133 Q: Can we raise the debt ceiling?
A: "Fuck You. Next Question."

Posted by: Why is this so hard? at July 07, 2011 02:08 PM (gUQdA)

134
OT: If you haven't seen "The Obama Legacy" on Youtube...

The best youtube in months. It is awesome.

Posted by: Cherry π at July 07, 2011 02:11 PM (OhYCU)

135 We'll take in about 17 - 19% of GDP (almost) no matter what the tax-code says (until & unless we start taxing the so-called poor (who often have better stuff than I do)).
That wouldn't work.
Their total-taxation percentage is this close to the same as the $250k+ers' (because they get reamed so hard on state/local, property, payroll, and consumption taxes), and it's total taxation (at about 40%) that has an inflexible upper limit, not income taxation. If you raised all the bottom quintile's federal income taxes to the this close-gap-closing amount, you'd net about $5.
The budget imbalance is in outlays, not revenue, and the most economically and politically unjustifiable cash-outlay block is federal employee salaries. If you cut them all in half, they'd still all (all) be massive overpayments, but we'd have a fuckload more stolen money to blow. For like ten minutes.
Boned.

Posted by: oblig. at July 07, 2011 02:11 PM (xvZW9)

136 Some people have yet to figure out: It's a game. The Republicans are the same as the Democrats. It's about maintaining power. Reagan was an aberration. Good photo ops - good headlines - screw the citizens...

Posted by: The Robot Devil at July 07, 2011 02:11 PM (136wp)

137 Maybe the Republicans would like me to see if Isaac is available to help them out with theirneed for a good hard raping?

Posted by: Fugazi Date Rape Therapist at July 07, 2011 02:12 PM (gUQdA)

138 Sorry that my 3 word review was so short. Maybe someone can make a 60 paragraph essay out of it.

Posted by: Cherry π at July 07, 2011 02:12 PM (OhYCU)

139 You should call yourself Mike The DooM; 'cause you just brought it. That
was well done. I know this, 'cause I'm contemplating suicide by
pudding.

Sorry. Wasn't trying to impersonate Beck. Just took exception to the thought that the economy couldn't be crushed by these buffoons when they already have a historical blueprint on how to do it. And yeah, they are about 95% of the way there.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at July 07, 2011 02:12 PM (0q2P7)

140 "spending reductions in the tax code,"

It's almost as if he doesn't understand accounting, isn't it?

Posted by: AmishDude at July 07, 2011 02:15 PM (T0NGe)

141 Just took exception to the thought that the economy
couldn't be crushed by these buffoons when they already have a
historical blueprint on how to do it. And yeah, they are about 95% of
the way there.


Posted by: MikeTheMoose at July 07, 2011 02:12 PM (0q2P7)
Even if there wasn't a blueprint.Mrs. O'Leary's cow wasn't smart enough to know how to burn down Chicago. But she did it anyway.

Posted by: Nighthawk at July 07, 2011 02:16 PM (OtQXp)

142 Because Obama and his cronies are putting out the word every single day that no deal means a default.

There's a word for this. Lemme see. Can't recall right now. Maybe Halperin knows it.

Posted by: rockhead at July 07, 2011 02:16 PM (ZMHGo)

143 Sorry. Wasn't trying to impersonate Beck. Just took
exception to the thought that the economy couldn't be crushed by these
buffoons when they already have a historical blueprint on how to do it.
And yeah, they are about 95% of the way there.


Posted by: MikeTheMoose at July 07, 2011 02:12 PM (0q2P7)
Too bad. You've got me depressed enough that I'm thinking about chemical assistance. Unfortunately, I'm challenged: I'm allergic to alcohol, so no Valu-Rite; part of the Lung Cancer gene pool, so shouldn't inhale anything; and I'm diabetic, so a stack of donuts is out.Anybody got any suggestions, or am I stuck with black tar?

Posted by: Meiczyslaw at July 07, 2011 02:18 PM (bjRNS)

144 How does the average American feel about the debt ceiling issue? I haven't seen countless polls on CNN or Yahoosaying Americans want it raised, so I'm assuming that the majority of people are against raising it. It can't be that there are just no polls out there, there are polls for every fucking thing.

Posted by: yinzer at July 07, 2011 02:18 PM (/Mla1)

145
Dear Mr. Speaker,

You hold the purse strings. The people sitting opposite you at that bargaining table will never negotiate in good faith because they are fundamentally dishonest and disloyal to the principles on which this country was founded.

The only chance this country has to avoid financial collapse on your watch is the slim hope afforded by getting spending under control *now*.

How do you want to be remembered in the history books?

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 07, 2011 02:19 PM (cbyrC)

146
136 Some people have yet to figure out: It's a game. The Republicans are the same as the Democrats. It's about maintaining power. Reagan was an aberration. Good photo ops - good headlines - screw the citizens...
Posted by: The Robot Devil at July 07, 2011 02:11 PM (136wp)
THREAD WINNER

Posted by: Truman North at July 07, 2011 02:21 PM (K2wpv)

147 It will be interesting to see if the Republicans sitting on the sidelines while their betters like Graham, Boehner, and Cantor negotiate with Democrats are willing to vote for the shit deal they come up with.

Based on Ron Johnson's quotes today, I wouldn't count on it.

Posted by: deadrody at July 07, 2011 02:21 PM (l9UkQ)

148 You know what this thread needs?

Some real music.

Posted by: Burt Sugarman at July 07, 2011 02:23 PM (fdhm7)

149 I think the president really, really likes me!

*giggles*

Posted by: John Boehner at July 07, 2011 02:23 PM (1fB+3)

150
The Audacity of Austerity

Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 02:23 PM (G/zuv)

151 #144 yinzer,

Last I saw, the polls were something like 79% were *against* raising the ceiling.

Posted by: GMan at July 07, 2011 02:24 PM (sxq57)

152 Over at Instapundit - evidently stimulus money used to stimulate a little murder action via Fast and Furious.

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at July 07, 2011 02:24 PM (jx2j9)

153 Queue the Deliverance music;

Squeal like a pig, Johnny!

Posted by: Marcus at July 07, 2011 02:25 PM (CHrmZ)

154
Rush Limbaugh's next product will be adult diapers.

Don't Poop Until You See The Whites of Their Eyes

Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 02:25 PM (G/zuv)

155 To you dipshit RINOS which is all of you apparently:

When the country needed leadership, you were concerned about what David Brooks might write about you. So obviously, you had no choice but to sell this country to the devil for a couple of bits.






Posted by: Sacrifice is more than spend OPM at July 07, 2011 02:25 PM (qxcKC)

156 You know what this thread needs?
More Cowbell!
Rock and Roll Never Felt So Good

Posted by: your masters, GWAR! at July 07, 2011 02:25 PM (gUQdA)

157 I've looked into the president's dreamy eyes and seen someone I can deal with, and dream about.

Posted by: John Boehner at July 07, 2011 02:25 PM (1fB+3)

158 145
While Boehner does indeed hold the purse strings, he can't just stop
funding for anything he so wishes. The Senate has to pass the proposals
made by the House and Obama has to sign them.



Posted by: '80sBaby at July 07, 2011 02:26 PM (o2lIv)

159
Rush's new acne medicine:

Give Me Puberty Or Give Me Death

Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 02:26 PM (G/zuv)

160
Rush's new beer:

Four Score And Seven Beers Ago

Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 02:28 PM (G/zuv)

161 Long Division

Posted by: FUGAZI at July 07, 2011 02:28 PM (gUQdA)

162 You know what this thread needs ... IDF chicks ....

Posted by: Captain America at July 07, 2011 02:28 PM (GvYeG)

163 >>Reagan was an aberration

Reagan also lobbied the Congress hard to have the debt ceiling raised when he was President.

Posted by: JackStraw at July 07, 2011 02:28 PM (TMB3S)

164
Last night, I modeled my burn rate to keep the lights on through 2013 and calculated my "gone Galt" cutoff.

I urge everyone reading this to do the same.

If Obama is reelected, then the game is over, anyway.

I am way past ready to remove myself from the economy out of spite.

I am awfully damned close to removing myself from the economy because of a cost/benefit calculation.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 07, 2011 02:29 PM (cbyrC)

165
speaking of bears...

Hear about that man who got mauled to death by the bear? They say it was a momma bear and she got scared and protected her cubs.

Sure. That and she's a bear who likes to eat meat.

Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 02:30 PM (G/zuv)

166 It was the chicken that burned down Chicago

Posted by: Mrs. O'Leary's cow at July 07, 2011 02:30 PM (3xl01)

167 Let me know what Rand Paul and Paul Ryan think of the deal, then I'll decide whether it's horeshit or not.
From now on, everyhing must pass that test for me.

Posted by: Clueless at July 07, 2011 02:30 PM (LyOUH)

168 OT bombshell:

[Obama Sr] "got his USC wife ‘Hapai’ [Hawaiian for pregnant] and although they were
married they do not live together and Miss Dunham is making arrangements
with the Salvation Army to give the baby away"

Posted by: Cherry π at July 07, 2011 02:32 PM (OhYCU)

169 "While Boehner does indeed hold the purse strings, he can't just stop funding for anything he so wishes."

With no budget and no continuing resolution signed into law, on what legal authority will the federal government continue to borrow and spend?

If we're already running on unicorn farts, then what is the point of this charade?

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 07, 2011 02:32 PM (cbyrC)

170 Hear about that man who got mauled to death by the bear? They say it was a momma bear and she got scared and protected her cubs.Sure. That and she's a bear who likes to eat meat.
Never trust a Grizzly Bear in the lower 48.
They aren't hunted, and subsequently are indifferent to the presence of humans. We are just another Predator competing with them until weprovide the opportunity to becomePrey.
Fuck the Grizzly Bear. Fuck 'em.
That's just how I feel.

Posted by: garrett at July 07, 2011 02:33 PM (gUQdA)

171 151
#144 yinzer,Last I saw, the polls were something like 79% were
*against* raising the ceiling.

So they prefer default? because Obama, the libs, and the moderate Rs aren't serious enough to avoid it in the long-term. We're going to be forced to pick our poison.

Posted by: '80sBaby at July 07, 2011 02:34 PM (o2lIv)

172
yeah, funny, that

we suddenly have lots of grizzlies -- like, too many


Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 02:34 PM (G/zuv)

173 Congressman Tom McClintock's "Full Faith and Credit Act" (H.R. 421) is bottled up in committee.
Ask your congressman WHY this hasn't been brought to the floor and passed! It takes all the fear-mongering about a default off the table.
"A Bill --To require that the Government prioritize all obligations on the debt held by the public in the event that the debt limit is reached."
"Sec. 2. Prioritize obligations on debt held by the public.
In the event that the debt of the United States Government, as defined in section 3101 of title 31, United States Code, reaches the statutory limit, the authority of the Department of the Treasury provided in section 3123 of title 31, United States Code, to pay with legal tender the principal and interest on debt held by the public shall take priority over all other obligations incurred by the Government of the United States.

Posted by: Bill at July 07, 2011 02:34 PM (kQpep)

174 If you're walking in Grizzly country, unarmed, well.....that's just natural selection doing its thing.

Posted by: Dr Spank at July 07, 2011 02:35 PM (1fB+3)

175 "We're going to be forced to pick our poison."

That die was cast when the Social Security Act was signed into law.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 07, 2011 02:35 PM (cbyrC)

176
Doing the right and responsible thing is 'poison.'

Tough pill to swallow...if you're a lefty or a lifetime leach, I suppose.

Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 02:38 PM (G/zuv)

177 we suddenly have lots of grizzlies -- like, too many
The Sierra Club assholes want to give them protectedcorridors to travel between the Parks, and expand their range!?

Posted by: garrett at July 07, 2011 02:38 PM (gUQdA)

178 Howrnment continue to borrow and
spend?



If we're already running on unicorn farts, then what is the point of
this charade?

On no legal authority, but that doesn't make it right for Boehner to violate the Constitution. How would he even go about that, anyway?

Posted by: '80sBaby at July 07, 2011 02:39 PM (o2lIv)

179 If you're walking in Grizzly country, unarmed, well.....that's just natural selection doing its thing.
It was in the Park, right?
Where theydiscourage sidearms and encourage the use ofPepper-Spray.

Posted by: garrett at July 07, 2011 02:40 PM (gUQdA)

180
new poots

Posted by: lolsoothsayer at July 07, 2011 02:41 PM (G/zuv)

181 Fuck the Grizzly Bear. Fuck 'em.
That's just how I feel.
Don was so excited to be going bear hunting. He spotted a small Brown
Bear in the woods and shot it. Then there was a tap on his shoulder, he
turned around to see a big Black Bear. The Black Bear said, ‘Don,
you’ve got two choices, either I maul you to death or we have sex.’ Don
decided to bend over.

Even though he felt sore for two weeks Don soon recovered and vowed
revenge. He headed out on another trip where he found the Black Bear and
shot it. There was another tap on his shoulder. This time a huge
Grizzly Bear was standing right next to him. The Grizzly said, ‘That was
a huge mistake Don. You’ve got two choices. Either I maul you to death,
or we have rough sex.’ Again, Don thought it was better to comply.

Although he survived, it took several months before Don finally
recovered. Outraged he headed back to the woods, managed to track down
the Grizzly and shot it. He felt the sweet taste of revenge. But then
there was a tap on his shoulder. Don turned round to find a giant Polar
Bear standing there.

The Polar Bear said, ‘Admit it Don, you don’t really come here for the hunting, do you?’

Posted by: Buzzsaw at July 07, 2011 02:41 PM (tf9Ne)

182 178 I'm unsure as to what happened to the front of that post I quoted.

Posted by: '80sBaby at July 07, 2011 02:42 PM (o2lIv)

183 I think we need an awesome name for our new third party, something like, F**k John Boehner!!!!

Posted by: Big T Party at July 07, 2011 02:44 PM (EMrMF)

184 Sure. That and she's a bear who likes to eat meat.

Grizzly, most likely a defensive attack. Black bear, most likely predation.

Last decade. The Black Bears beat out the Brown Bears 16-12.
This decade, the Brown Bears currently lead, 3-2.

The drop in active hunting has lead to a Black Bear population explosion that is credited for the substantial increase in deadly encounters (6 in the 1980's and 9 in the 1990's)

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at July 07, 2011 02:45 PM (0q2P7)

185 I was sure I italicized the first 2 sentences in 181. The blog hacked me.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at July 07, 2011 02:46 PM (tf9Ne)

186 @182

I'm sorry, but I do not understand your question.

The House can write and pass whatever budget they want for FY2012. They can do the same for FY2013.

They have no obligation to move even an inch come reconciliation conference time.

They *absolutely* have no legal obligation to do *anything* when neither the Senate nor the White House has submitted a budget.

If the house does their job according to the law and The Constitution, then how would the Speaker be in violation of the law?

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 07, 2011 02:53 PM (cbyrC)

187 I see the government is still trying to sneak up on itself and pick its own pocket.

The little bastards are damned entertaining, aren't they?

Posted by: #HACKED at July 07, 2011 03:01 PM (gZD6d)

188 175"We're going to be forced to pick our poison."

That die was cast when the Social Security Act was signed into law.Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 07, 2011 02:35 PM (cbyrC) that or when the Federal Reserve Bank was established.take your pick, either or was bound to be the death of a once great nation.

Posted by: Shoey at July 07, 2011 03:03 PM (jdOk/)

189 $4 trillion in cuts? That's easy:
Just

Posted by: CNBC viewer at July 07, 2011 03:05 PM (hTjU8)

190 186
@182
I'm sorry, but I do not understand your question.



The House can write and pass whatever budget they want for FY2012. They
can do the same for FY2013.



They have no obligation to move even an inch come reconciliation
conference time.



They *absolutely* have no legal obligation to do *anything* when neither
the Senate nor the White House has submitted a budget.



If the house does their job according to the law and The Constitution,
then how would the Speaker be in violation of the law?


I agree, the House has done their duty RE the budet. But nothing gets implemented unless its passed by the Senate and signed by the president. My understanding was that you were asking Boehner to circumvent that somehow.

Posted by: '80sBaby at July 07, 2011 03:06 PM (o2lIv)

191 (Wow. Premature posting. Anyway -- )
$4 trillion in cuts is easy. Just tell the people who buy Bo's food that they have to use a dollar off coupon on dog food. Within77 billion years, the country will have saved over 4 trillion dollars.

Posted by: FireHorse at July 07, 2011 03:07 PM (hTjU8)

192 "that or when the Federal Reserve Bank was established."

Heh. Or, that other major FAIL! of 1913, the 16th Amendment.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 07, 2011 03:12 PM (cbyrC)

193 Hey, John Boehner is stepping out of the airplane -- and he's waving a piece of paper! Must be good news!

Posted by: Laurie David's Cervix at July 07, 2011 03:12 PM (EeYDk)

194 I believe that Polosi never wanted a budget during the two years she was speaker. She wanted to spend money the Dems were not able to spend for twenty years. She knew she would lose the house, but the Republicans would be forced to achieve a budget. Their budget would require the Americans to tighten their belts - creating problems for the Republicans - the 2012 election keeps Obama and brings her back as speaker and off we go into the Disney Land of Socialism...ending the American Dream.

Posted by: Bob Frey at July 07, 2011 03:17 PM (7Wd7i)

195 "My understanding was that you were asking Boehner to circumvent that somehow."

I am sorry. That is not what I was suggesting.

This is a game of chicken. He can fulfill all of the obligations of his office and still thwart his acting-in-bad-faith opposition. The question is how committed he is to the principles of the movement that put the gavel in his hands. Or, from a cynic's angle that assumes that his motives do not align with those principles: Does he think he can weather bucking the base?

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 07, 2011 03:25 PM (cbyrC)

196 "She wanted to spend money the Dems were not able to spend for twenty years."

The problem with that plan is that just spending that money pulled the impending economic collapse to this side of enough people's time horizon to ignite a push toward fiscal responsibility.

Pelosi/Reid/Obama had to prevent the tax rates from resetting higher back in December. This was during their flip-off-America-on-the-way-out lame duck session. They *know* what raising taxes will do to the economy, so all this talk about "spending reductions in the tax code" is the gladly-pay-you-Tuesday part needed to cover all the hamburgers they want to eat today.

They are bad faith actors. In a sane world, they would be in prison.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at July 07, 2011 03:38 PM (cbyrC)

197 You are right on, but I think they want the collapse. The next step is world government and Polosi is 3rd in charge of Obamas' king-ship. When we win in 2012, I hope all their asses go to jail along with Bernadine Dorne (sp) and Bill Ayers.

Posted by: Bob Frey at July 07, 2011 03:51 PM (7Wd7i)

198 195
I am sorry. That is not what I was suggesting.



This is a game of chicken. He can fulfill all of the obligations of his
office and still thwart his acting-in-bad-faith opposition. The
question is how committed he is to the principles of the movement that
put the gavel in his hands. Or, from a cynic's angle that assumes that
his motives do not align with those principles: Does he think he can
weather bucking the base?

My mistake.

Depends on what you consider "bucking the base". If he agrees to outright tax increases or anything of that nature, the GOP will likely be finished as a party and his tenure finished. But small, non-harmful defense cuts to avoid tax-- not revenue, but strictly tax increases-- wouldn't be as bad.

Posted by: '80sBaby at July 07, 2011 03:56 PM (o2lIv)

199 Regardless of the nuance, if Boehner is seen presiding over another defeat so soon after the last one, he is done as Speaker.

He's Mr. 7/8. You can't right the ship by giving outright commies 7/8 of everything they ask for.

Posted by: sifty at July 07, 2011 04:28 PM (gYuf3)

200 Everyone join us now.
There, isn't that better?

Posted by: Ben Dover at July 07, 2011 04:30 PM (EL+OC)

201 I believe the Republicans will be consistent and betray us once again. Like Lucy, they will hold the fiscal sanity football out there for us to kick and then they will take it away, all the while deploring the Democrats for their own shortcomings.

Posted by: Clint Lovell at July 07, 2011 05:18 PM (1yP+V)

202 We don't need no stinking debt ceiling at all. The 'debt ceiling' is an arbitrary number that is imposed by congress. It is exactly like the credit limit on a credit card.

The point being our government can print money legally. You and I can't. They can and have been devaluing the dollar.

Oh and another thing, why are 'we' borrowing money when we could be cutting spending anyway?

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