Brinksmanship: Democrat Baucus Says No Debt Limit Deal Without Tax Increases

The media of course has been slanting this story all along.

They claim the Republicans "won't agree" to a debt limit increase. What they mean is that Republicans won't agree to a debt limit increase on the Democrats' terms.

Funny, they never report the corollary: That Democrats refuse to agree to a deal on the Republicans' terms.

Seems both sides are bargaining here but only one is called out for not simply agreeing to the other's opening position.

Now the Democrats have made it clear what they want.

What they always want.

What they always have wanted.

What they always will want.

In the future, when time travel is a mature technology, and we develop (per Douglas Adams) 50 new verb tenses to describe events which technically will happen in the future by means of changing the past -- What they all-whens habben willen ur-wanten.

They want tax increases.

Why knock me over with a frigging feather.

One of the Democrats participating in bipartisan debt discussions said he's "very disappointed" his Republican counterpart has ditched negotiations over an impasse on taxes, but says he hopes to continue working with the group in a different context.

He also made an impassioned case that new tax revenues be part of any deal to raise the debt limit that involves significant cuts to entitlement programs.

"I'm disappointed that Leader Cantor's withdrawn," said Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus during a hearing on health care spending. "I think we should stay at the table. I think we should keep working, difficult as it is, and try to balance between Medicare cuts -- additional Medicare cuts -- so long as there is commensurate additional revenue. We need balance here."


The Democratic Party

The Government must endure, The Government must prosper, The Government must triumph.

Posted by: Ace at 02:23 PM



Comments

1 Clean up needed on aisle...!

Posted by: dogfish at June 23, 2011 02:25 PM (NuPNl)

2 dont quote me on this

Posted by: Cherry π the unbanned at June 23, 2011 02:26 PM (OhYCU)

3
This is a big huge scam set-up for 2012.

The Democrats are setting up the Republicans to raise taxes so the Democrats can use it against them in 2012 and win back the House.


Posted by: Soothsayer at June 23, 2011 02:27 PM (sqkOB)

4 Oh, I'm definitely in.

Posted by: Rick Perry at June 23, 2011 02:27 PM (1fB+3)

5 I'm feeling rather boxed in.

Posted by: Less at June 23, 2011 02:28 PM (PGXeZ)

6
If the Republicans agree to a tax hike, it will crush GOP turnout in 2012.

Do. Not. Do. It.

Posted by: Soothsayer at June 23, 2011 02:28 PM (sqkOB)

7 DNC
chair seeks to settle the debate about her being an idiot. Succeeds

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at June 23, 2011 02:28 PM (jx2j9)

8 The house GOP needs to hang tough on this.
.
.
.
Yeah. I know.

Posted by: Andy at June 23, 2011 02:28 PM (5Rurq)

9 Don't forget about us!

Posted by: The Unions at June 23, 2011 02:28 PM (zgHLA)

10 And me!

Posted by: Beauracracy at June 23, 2011 02:29 PM (zgHLA)

11 Let the Brinksmanship games begin! First one to blink losses!

Posted by: Robert Woolwine at June 23, 2011 02:30 PM (V+ylD)

12 We're in, too!

Posted by: Welfare Recipients at June 23, 2011 02:30 PM (zgHLA)

13 Everyone gets a free red Prius

Posted by: Cherry π the unbanned at June 23, 2011 02:30 PM (OhYCU)

14 No deal huh?
I'm good with that. No debtincrease beats any deal speaker Crying Boner can negotiate.
Iow, we have nothing to gain in a negotiation with the socialists.

Posted by: Its Morning in the Pension Fund of America at June 23, 2011 02:30 PM (K/USr)

15 Hey, don't forget us!

Posted by: The Abortion Lobby at June 23, 2011 02:30 PM (zgHLA)

16 Do. Not. Do. It.

*nods*

Posted by: near zombie GHWB at June 23, 2011 02:30 PM (GTbGH)

17 7
DNC
chair seeks to settle the debate about her being an idiot. Succeeds

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at June 23, 2011 02:28 PM (jx2j9)
The stupid is strong in this one...

Posted by: The Robot Devil at June 23, 2011 02:30 PM (136wp)

18 Whoever said the debt limit is a ceiling not a goal wins a cookie.
Anyone know if Obama is still knocking himself out with those once monthly economic briefings?

Posted by: alexthechick at June 23, 2011 02:30 PM (VtjlW)

19 Are these the same Democrats that were calling to continue the Bush tax cuts earlier this year?

Posted by: Speller at June 23, 2011 02:31 PM (J74Py)

20 Tax increases never work but that is what the Dems always want. First jack spending through the roof and then say we need a tax hike to remove the deficit.

Then increase spending again.

But this time they are screwing themselves. If the Republicans hold firm they will get a spending cut equal to the amount of the deficit.

However, since we are already exceeding the debt limit and they are hiding it through chicanery and fake numbers I'm sure Obama adm will continue spending.

He is Supercommieman impervious to Impeachanite.

Posted by: Vic at June 23, 2011 02:31 PM (M9Ie6)

21 Go, Democrats, go!

Posted by: The Media at June 23, 2011 02:31 PM (zgHLA)

22 Sagging Negotiations draw attention to:

a) Former Congressman's sagging ball sac;
b) Republicans' refusal to negotiate; or
c) Democrats' awesomeness in all things.

Posted by: USA at June 23, 2011 02:31 PM (6Cjut)

23 Just raise the damned taxes! What could go wrong with just a little tax deal?

Posted by: George H.W. Bush at June 23, 2011 02:31 PM (lH6z9)

24 If the Republicans agree to a tax hike, it will crush GOP turnout in 2012. Do. Not. Do. It.Posted by: Soothsayer at June 23, 2011 02:28 PM (sqkOB)
And a debt ceiling increase should produce a third party run in 12.Not saying it will; Americans are awfully passive right now.

Posted by: Its Morning in the Pension Fund of America at June 23, 2011 02:32 PM (K/USr)

25
The Democrats just voted last December to extend the Bush tax rates.
And then ran out immediately screaming that the Republicans are the party of tax cuts for the rich.

The Democrats voted to invade Iraq. And then they immediately condemned the war.

The Democrats voted for the Patriot Act. And then they immediately screamed about how the Republicans were infringing on civil liberties.

Do not fall for this trick, again, Republicans. If the Democrats want tax hikes, make THEM own it completely.



Posted by: Soothsayer at June 23, 2011 02:32 PM (sqkOB)

26 23

Just raise the damned taxes! What could go wrong with just a little tax deal?

Posted by: George H.W. Bush at June 23, 2011 02:31 PM (lH6z9)
Read my hips, more new taxes

Posted by: Debbie What's That Man? at June 23, 2011 02:33 PM (136wp)

27 When AmEx called me, I told them I wanted my debt limit increased. They said they would call their lawyer. I guess it's about to happen, huh?

Posted by: Cherry π the unbanned at June 23, 2011 02:33 PM (OhYCU)

28 Yeah? What about us?

Posted by: Ethanol farmers at June 23, 2011 02:33 PM (Xf/PJ)

29 As long as we get our cut, we're cool.

Posted by: 52%ers at June 23, 2011 02:33 PM (zgHLA)

30 No debt limit increase without a full repeal of ObamaCare. This is what is important. Everything else is meaningless bullshit.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 23, 2011 02:33 PM (G/MYk)

31 Don't worry. Obama is releasing the oil from the SPR.

Everything (and by everything I mean Obama's reelection in 2012) will be fine.


Posted by: Clubber Lang at June 23, 2011 02:34 PM (QcFbt)

32 Hey, boys! You want a date?

Posted by: Bread and Circuses at June 23, 2011 02:34 PM (zgHLA)

33 I.AM.THE.JUGGERNAUT

Posted by: the debt ceiling at June 23, 2011 02:35 PM (GTbGH)

34 Think of what a tax rate would do to our red-hot GDP.

Posted by: Prensidint Barack Obamama at June 23, 2011 02:35 PM (MMC8r)

35 You jerkwads need to shut up about this.

Posted by: John McCain at June 23, 2011 02:36 PM (zgHLA)

36 33
I.AM.THE.JUGGERNAUT, BITCH!


Posted by: the debt ceiling at June 23, 2011 02:35 PM (GTbGH)

Posted by: Kal Penn in "Boystown" at June 23, 2011 02:36 PM (136wp)

37 Conservatives are all racists.

Posted by: Jon Stewart at June 23, 2011 02:37 PM (zgHLA)

38 No way Max said all ofthat without a 'hiccup!'.

Posted by: garrett at June 23, 2011 02:37 PM (LLirK)

39 Magneto!

Posted by: Magneto at June 23, 2011 02:37 PM (136wp)

40 math is racist.

Posted by: can't let go of old memes at June 23, 2011 02:37 PM (GTbGH)

41
I think Cantor is finally realizing that THIS is our only leverage.

We have Obama over a barrel. Libya, his stupid health care, taxes, spending cuts, border security. We have the advantage over Obama. He must yield. We can do just almost as well with a stalemate as with concessions by Obama.


Posted by: Soothsayer at June 23, 2011 02:38 PM (sqkOB)

42 The Baucus Caucus is getting raucous.

Posted by: Prensidint Barack Obamama at June 23, 2011 02:40 PM (MMC8r)

43
The Harshening continues apace...

Posted by: Dr. Varno at June 23, 2011 02:41 PM (QMtmy)

44
We have Obama over a barrel. Libya, his stupid
health care, taxes, spending cuts, border security. We have the
advantage over Obama. He must yield. We can do just almost as well with a
stalemate as with concessions by Obama.


Posted by: Soothsayer at June 23, 2011 02:38 PM (sqkOB)
Hmm, the peasants are revolting!

Posted by: Barack "Louis XVI" Obama at June 23, 2011 02:42 PM (136wp)

45 Don't forget me. I need money for my car and my mortgage.

Obama is going to help me out.

Posted by: Peggy Joseph at June 23, 2011 02:42 PM (kCT7A)

46 This is the way the world ends
This is the way the word ends
This is the way the world ends

not with a bang but a whimper

Posted by: SantaRosaStan, an Gael at June 23, 2011 02:42 PM (UqKQV)

47 Are these the same Democrats that were calling to continue the Bush tax cuts earlier this year?

Yes, of course. Might we point out that, back then, many conservatives were busy patting themselves on the back for getting a lousy two year extension of those rates. We heard conservatives say that time limit was great because they would love to have another tax fight with Barry in 2012.

Well, we didn't even have to wait until next year. And now we'll see if the GOP has the gonads to say "No" to new tax hikes at the risk of losing a debt ceiling deal.

Posted by: George Orwell at June 23, 2011 02:43 PM (AZGON)

48 Go, Democrats, go!
Posted by: The Media at June 23, 2011 02:31 PM (zgHLA)
Maybe that should be (mumble, mumble, suck, suck) as it is hard for the lamestream media to talk with Donk dicks in their mouths.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 23, 2011 02:43 PM (ujg0T)

49
Anyone know if Obama is still knocking himself out with those once monthly economic briefings?


Posted by: alexthechick at June 23, 2011 02:30 PM

He goes to bed every night and wakes up every morning thinking of how to save us from this terrible economy. So he naps instead of attending briefings.

Posted by: arhooley at June 23, 2011 02:43 PM (/NHKt)

50 He also made an impassioned case that new tax revenues be part of any
deal to raise the debt limit that involves significant cuts to
entitlement programs.

I know how to come to a fair negotiation on just this point.

We need tax increases. But the right tax increases...

1) 90% tax on all entertainment industry salaries/royalties/etc over $250k.

2) 90% tax on all lawyer fees/earnings over $250k.

3) 100% tax on any government pension that pays more then SS.


Posted by: 18-1 at June 23, 2011 02:44 PM (7BU4a)

51 How can we ever say no to a Democrat? They're just so precious! Daddy's little girl!

Posted by: The Mainstream Media at June 23, 2011 02:44 PM (uaEZS)

52 We don't want to raise the debt limit. Would we accpet a tax increase (modest) if the debt limit was not raised, and federal spending was cut (Medicare/medicaid/social security, etc)?
What about tax reform? A flat tax replacing the current progressive income tax? How about replacing the income tax ( repeal of the constitutional amendment allowing the income tax) and replacing it with a federal sales tax?
Yeah, that may sound impossible, but these are the sort of times that can lead to solutions that would have been impossible in the past.
Axelrod said never let a crisis go to waste. Yeah, it sounds like a jerkish thing to say. But there is something to be said for it. (When it goes your way. When it doesn't, well that kinda sucks.)

Posted by: ed at June 23, 2011 02:44 PM (Y2WVW)

53 40
math is racist.


Posted by: can't let go of old memes at June 23, 2011 02:37 PM (GTbGH)
In
the middle of
the ocean there is a small
island where
everybody is part of this strange religion. One of the rules the people
with this religion have to follow is the following : if you ever find
out
that you have blue eyes, you have to kill yourself that day at
midnight.
Because of this rule, people never talk about other people eyes and
there
are no mirrors in the island. So they can all live happily without
knowing
what the color of their own eyes is. They do see other people eyes,
moreover,
they all meet every day at noon where they have the chance to look at
each
other. One
day, a foreigner comes to the island and at the noon meeting
he tells everybody: "at least one of you has blue eyes". The
questions
is what happens in the island thereafter. Assume, for example, that in
the island there are 100 people with blue eyes and 100 people with
brown
eyes. Another important assumptions is that everybody in the island is
a perfect logician. Solve for watermelon.

Posted by: The Robot Devil at June 23, 2011 02:44 PM (136wp)

54 No way Max said all ofthat without a 'hiccup!'.

Posted by: garrett at June 23, 2011 02:37 PM (LLirK)
Is that the jerkwad on the way back from his four martini lunch that was assaulting the kid in that "ew ar ewe?" video?If it is that clip should be played every single time his name is mentioned on TVWhy?Because it would if he were a Republican.

Posted by: Nighthawk at June 23, 2011 02:45 PM (OtQXp)

55 You see, the economy is like this putting green, and the Republicans can't put the ball in the hole. Trust me, I won't quit until I get it into the hole.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at June 23, 2011 02:45 PM (AZGON)

56 This, "When Government Jumps the Shark" by Walter Mead, is great.

http://tinyurl.com/3ej7n3p



My only issue with it is, I think he gives progressives of today way too much credit for things progressives at the time opposed. I do get hes trying to stroke their ego so they'll read the rest of his thoughts. Petulent Children... watcha gonna do

Posted by: nobody at June 23, 2011 02:45 PM (mLAWK)

57 Would we accpet a tax increase (modest) if the debt limit was not raised, and federal spending was cut (Medicare/medicaid/social security, etc)?
Demunists bait, then switch.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 23, 2011 02:46 PM (ujg0T)

58 How about a Moron Meetup in DC tonight? Capitol Hill?

Posted by: DC Zombie at June 23, 2011 02:47 PM (b96e6)

59 Listen to me: Propose tax increases. A progressive tax on legal fees or the lawyers' portion of awards from legal settlements.

Raise taxes on the unpopular members of their coalition.

Posted by: AmishDude at June 23, 2011 02:47 PM (T0NGe)

60 I am a little surprised that it's taking so long for Barack to send me my goodies, but I'm sure it's the Republicans fault for standing in his way.

Posted by: Peggy Joseph at June 23, 2011 02:47 PM (uaEZS)

61 Rumor has it (passive voice is fun!) on the menu for next beer summit.

http://tinyurl.com/6xba7al

Posted by: USA at June 23, 2011 02:47 PM (6Cjut)

62 "We have Obama over a barrel. Libya, his stupid health care, taxes, spending cuts, border security. We have the advantage over Obama. He must yield. We can do just almost as well with a stalemate as with concessions by Obama."
You know, if the line is held on the debt ceiling and tax increases, the spending cuts automatically take care of themselves.
Just sayin'.

Posted by: ed at June 23, 2011 02:47 PM (Y2WVW)

63 O/T but you all might find this smile worthy. My teenager searched for 2 years to find a job. He finally got one cleaning offices at night. His supervisor no speaka english.. along with everyone else who cleaned. My state passed an immigration law.
Now my son got a promotion, raise and got to put the call out to other teenagers who desperately want a job. Illegals are out of work and American teenagers are replacing them.

Posted by: Evil ATM out to take your job and your women. at June 23, 2011 02:47 PM (qjUnn)

64
We have Obama over a barrel. Libya, his stupid
health care, taxes, spending cuts, border security. We have the
advantage over Obama. He must yield. We can do just almost as well with a
stalemate as with concessions by Obama.

Posted by: Soothsayer at June 23, 2011 02:38 PM

We MUST remember this. Obama does not have a small gang of briable RINOs or Stupaks up his sleeve this time. We MUST remember the facedown of healthcare and arm wrestle-that fucker to the table this time.

Another confrontation on C-SPAN? Let's challenge him.

Posted by: arhooley at June 23, 2011 02:48 PM (/NHKt)

65 We're about to put some D's in some A's!

Posted by: Dirty Mike & The Boys, Finance Committee Chair at June 23, 2011 02:48 PM (+lsX1)

66 "Trust me, I won't quit until I get it
into the hole."

It will be the proudest moment of my life.

Posted by: Michelle Obama at June 23, 2011 02:48 PM (uaEZS)

67 Single-payer legal system. It's the Amish way, it's the only way.

Posted by: George Orwell at June 23, 2011 02:48 PM (AZGON)

68 We Are Part of the Problem.

Posted by: The Democratic Party at June 23, 2011 02:50 PM (9hSKh)

69 The best thing to happen to the country right now would be to have any such deals fall through. Of course, that's merely one more law for the admin to ignore, so it would not ultimately matter.

Posted by: Randy at June 23, 2011 02:50 PM (vI8R6)

70 Well, I'll tell you what I want
What I really, really want

Posted by: Marxist Spice at June 23, 2011 02:50 PM (IdoRk)

71 Now my son got a promotion, raise and got to put the
call out to other teenagers who desperately want a job. Illegals are
out of work and American teenagers are replacing them.

Posted by: Evil ATM out to take your job and your women

I'm not a teenager, but . . . could you send your son my resume?

Posted by: Californian with college degree arhooley at June 23, 2011 02:51 PM (/NHKt)

72 What does Obama want? He already is the biggest thief of all time. At work last night, I saw a car in the garage with it's headlights left on. I walked over to get the license plate number to inform security. It was a Prius. I did not inform security. Oh, and I condemn myself.

Posted by: BM at June 23, 2011 02:51 PM (qMymA)

73 How about replacing the income tax ( repeal of the constitutional amendment allowing the income tax) and replacing it with a federal sales tax?
Posted by: ed at June 23, 2011 02:44 PM (Y2WVW)
This would be a total disaster. If income was freed from the thieving clutches of the feral government then the states would just move in and hike their own income taxes.The real tax problem comes down to the competition between the feral government and the states to rob you blind. Right now, the states are the only ones with access to the general revenue stream at the cashier. If the Feds move into that area then the states will move to other areas to get more money. In the end, people's income and wealth will still be taken by the various governments at about the same level. Better to keep the feds restricted to general income taxes, lest they get sales taxes and then move on to areas of wealth and the like - which they certainly would.I would not want the feral government to pick up new, different streams for taxes unless it is done Constitutionally and other streams were specifically kept out of the reach of the feds). But, that will never happen, so I remain 100% against a federal sales tax.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 23, 2011 02:51 PM (G/MYk)

74 I'd love for the Republicans to come back asking the Democrats which three government departments they'll agree to eliminate. After the Democrats decide from the short list (Education, Energy, HHS, HUD) then talks will begin again.
If not, let the debt ceiling pass and bring in the machete. I don't give a darn about most of the children but to keep tacking on trillion after trillion they'll have to repay one way or another is pretty cruel. If the crash is going to come, might as well stop the Democrats from paying off everyone. Where'd the last $5 Trillion dollars go again?

Posted by: Stateless Infidel at June 23, 2011 02:51 PM (GKQDR)

75 so long as there is commensurate additional revenue.

In 2009 Citizens across the United States took to the streets to protest deficit spending on a colossal scale. Their motto "Taxed Enough Already".

For the weeks and months that followed the legislature majority party, the executive administration, and the press mocked the group as too stupid to understand how things work in a complex society, and that in the Presidents words "They should thank me"

2011 we finally see the truth. Unsustainable spending necessitates tax increases.

Trust me, I'm so angry over that point right there, after mocking me for preemptively protesting tax increases when any fool could see them down the road, that the Dems would even dare propose a tax increase, I can see red.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at June 23, 2011 02:52 PM (0q2P7)

76 I prefer peace. But if trouble must come, let it come in my time, so that my children can live in peace.





brrraaiiinzzz

Posted by: zombie thomas paine at June 23, 2011 02:53 PM (GTbGH)

77
If income was freed from the thieving clutches of the feral government
then the states would just move in and hike their own income taxes.

People are free to move around, you know.

Posted by: arhooley at June 23, 2011 02:54 PM (/NHKt)

78 Dems are now stooping to calling the GOP job killers because they're pushing bills to have a payroll tax holiday and the GOP says no because the rest of the bill sucks. But it's the evil R's that are preventing YOU from having a job.

These assholes will stop at NOTHING to remain in power. NOTHING.

Posted by: © Sponge at June 23, 2011 02:55 PM (UK9cE)

79 54
No way Max said all ofthat without a 'hiccup!'.Posted by: garrett at June 23, 2011 02:37 PM (LLirK) Is that the jerkwad on the way back from his four martini lunch that was assaulting the kid in that "ew ar ewe?" video?Posted by: Nighthawk at June 23, 2011 02:45 PM (OtQXp)
No, that was Bob Etheridge, who lost his House seat to Renee Ellmers.Baucus was the souse who delivered the drunkenly-slurred "Where's the courage?" address on the Senate floor prior the Christmastime 2009 BOHICA passage of the health care "reform" legislation by the Senate. Claimed he wasn't inebriated, though, and took great offense at the implication.

Posted by: Breitbart from the 22nd Century at June 23, 2011 02:55 PM (dWOwL)

80 77

If income was freed from the thieving clutches of the feral government
then the states would just move in and hike their own income taxes.

People are free to move around, you know.


Posted by: arhooley at June 23, 2011 02:54 PM (/NHKt)
Now, in the future, not so much...

Posted by: Eric Holder at June 23, 2011 02:55 PM (136wp)

81 People are free to move around, you know.

Posted by: arhooley at June 23, 2011 02:54 PM (/NHKt)
True, which is why states were given much more power than the feds. Of course, we've seen how that idea has been perverted. Can't move away from ObamaCare.
With federal sales taxes, even states that have no income taxes, now, will have to institute them, as their take at the cash register will be pounded by the feral government horning in on the action.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 23, 2011 02:57 PM (G/MYk)

82 Howie Carr on wrko.com at 3:00 should be entertaining with Whitey Bulger being captured last night.

Posted by: BM at June 23, 2011 02:57 PM (qMymA)

83 Wasn't it just a couple of days ago that the Republicans voted down 2 billion in additional cuts to the agricultural bill? Holding the line on the debt ceiling means real spending cuts about 1000 times larger than that. I wish it would happen, but not holding my breath.

Posted by: Bob Saget at June 23, 2011 02:58 PM (F/4zf)

84 Baucus: I think we should keep working, difficult as it is, and try to balance between Medicare cuts -- additional Medicare cuts -- so long as there is commensurate additional revenue.

If, when you say "commensurate additional revenue" you mean "sending every Democrat in Congress on a mission to Mars in a bottle rocket covered with tar and feathers," I'm on board.

Posted by: George Orwell at June 23, 2011 02:58 PM (AZGON)

85 Mistakes were made.

Jobs were lost.

Money was blinded.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at June 23, 2011 02:59 PM (ldUCK)

86 Why can't the Republicans make an ad that shows off charts from the failed stimulus, how in debt we are, then juxtapose that into the call for new taxes with a VO that says "Democrats have been shown that they can't be trusted with your money. And now they want more."?

It's frustrating to see how out of touch they really are.

Posted by: Alex #11 at June 23, 2011 02:59 PM (B3Q1j)

87
btw, wtf does Max Bogus mean here?

we should keep working, difficult as it is, and try to balance between
Medicare cuts -- additional Medicare cuts -- so long as there is
commensurate additional revenue.

Why do you need "additional revenue" if you're cutting?

Posted by: arhooley at June 23, 2011 02:59 PM (/NHKt)

88 GOP: Job Killers but DEMS are 'Job Friendly Warriors'

Posted by: © Sponge at June 23, 2011 03:00 PM (UK9cE)

89
"but says he hopes to continue working with the group in a different context."
Different context ? What the hell is that ?
Like the Israelis would love to walk away from Barky's one-sided "peace process" but hope to "continue working" with the Palestinians "in a different context" - from the cockpit of an F-16, for example ?

Posted by: SocietyIs2Blame at June 23, 2011 03:00 PM (7RhsY)

90 73 How about replacing the income tax ( repeal of the constitutional amendment allowing the income tax) and replacing it with a federal sales tax?
Posted by: ed at June 23, 2011 02:44 PM (Y2WVW)
************************
This would be a total disaster. If income was freed from the thieving clutches of the feral government then the states would just move in and hike their own income taxes.
(ed: Why? States can already tax income, and many do. California, NY, etc)
The real tax problem comes down to the competition between the feral government and the states to rob you blind. Right now, the states are the only ones with access to the general revenue stream at the cashier. If the Feds move into that area then the states will move to other areas to get more money. In the end, people's income and wealth will still be taken by the various governments at about the same level. Better to keep the feds restricted to general income taxes, lest they get sales taxes and then move on to areas of wealth and the like - which they certainly would.
(ed: I'm not sure that the feds would crowd out the states in the sales tax area if the feds move in, but you might be right. I'm not sure...)
I would not want the feral government to pick up new, different streams for taxes unless it is done Constitutionally and other streams were specifically kept out of the reach of the feds). But, that will never happen, so I remain 100% against a federal sales tax.
(ed: I wouldn't want the feds to get a sales tax unless we revoked the 16th amendment first. I don't know if constitutionally we would need another amendment to allow the feds to then collect a sales tax.)
progressoverpeace at June 23, 2011 02:51 PM (G/MYk)

Posted by: ed at June 23, 2011 03:02 PM (Y2WVW)

91 The GOP plan: 80% cuts, 20% tax increases.
The D plan: 115% tax increases, increased spending.
They couldn't reach a compromise of 95% tax increases, cuts to middle class subsidies, increases to lower class and union subsidies, so Cantor walked. Clearly the GOP is totally at fault here - just waiting on the NYT to put it in print.

Posted by: Vashta.Nerada at June 23, 2011 03:02 PM (AskuI)

92
Why can't the Republicans make an ad that . . .

Because they eschew the field of art communication.

Posted by: arhooley at June 23, 2011 03:02 PM (/NHKt)

93 Why do you need "additional revenue" if you're cutting?

Posted by: arhooley at June 23, 2011 02:59 PM (/NHKt)
Heh. Baucus is pretty friggin' stupid. I like the way he threw "commensurate" in, to make it sound as if the "additional revenues" were somehow related, in size, to the expenditures cut, even though there is no connection between the two, at all. Where does Baucus imagine this "additional revenue" is needed? I'd bet he wants to spend that extra money (the same amount as was just cut - "commensurate") on Medicare!
Unreal.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 23, 2011 03:03 PM (G/MYk)

94 The libtards just hate the fact that the so called tax breaks are known as the Bush tax cuts.

Posted by: Talibill at June 23, 2011 03:05 PM (WEWGu)

95 The GOP could agree to a tax increase on the income of anyone who votes for the Democrats in 2012. Everyone else is excluded.

Posted by: Roy at June 23, 2011 03:06 PM (VndSC)

96 If rethuglicans don't raise the debt ceiling it will rjuin the economy. I blame Palin, Rush Limbaugh, and Faux news. they want the economy and Obama to fail.

Posted by: college voter at June 23, 2011 03:06 PM (4tNOZ)

97 (ed: I wouldn't want the feds to get a sales tax unless we revoked
the 16th amendment first. I don't know if constitutionally we would
need another amendment to allow the feds to then collect a sales tax.)

I'm with you on this (including language in an amendment specifically prohibiting the feds from ever dipping into income taxes again) but it will never happen. I'd be happy with a national sales tax (not a VAT, but a direct, simple tax that shows up on the bill) but only if the feds were restricted to that stream.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 23, 2011 03:06 PM (G/MYk)

98 Less Baucus.
More Backus.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at June 23, 2011 03:07 PM (QMtmy)

99
I'm not a teenager, but . . . could you send your son my resume?


Posted by: Californian with college degree arhooley at June 23, 2011 02:51 PM (/NHKt)

One of the kids he called said his uncle needed a job so he got it too.Makes me smile that several teenagers can now earn money for college.. and a grown man can do something for money... even if its min. wage.

Posted by: Evil ATM out to take your job and your women. at June 23, 2011 03:07 PM (qjUnn)

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Posted by: jnonceap at June 23, 2011 03:08 PM (03AhW)

101 Mistakes were made.Jobs were lost.Money was blinded.
Fraudulent votes were cast.

Posted by: WalrusRex at June 23, 2011 03:08 PM (jUZRg)

102 Bob Dole raised taxes to save Social Security. So if Bob Dole did it then, why are the Republicansruling out tax increases now? Haven't Cantor Boehner the rest learned smart politics from watching what Bob Dole did?

Posted by: Bob Dole at June 23, 2011 03:08 PM (piR98)

103
GOP: Job Killers but DEMS are 'Job Friendly Warriors'

Posted by: © Sponge at June 23, 2011 03:00 PM

The people who comment on that website are even stupider than the people who write for it.

Posted by: huerfano at June 23, 2011 03:09 PM (izDdO)

104
Posted by: Evil ATM out to take your job and your women

I wonder where the illegal aliens went. Wait, what's my handle?

Posted by: Californian with college degree arhooley at June 23, 2011 03:09 PM (/NHKt)

105 Mistakes were made.

Jobs were lost.

Money was blinded.

Fraudulent votes were cast.

An accident occurred.

Posted by: toby928™ at June 23, 2011 03:09 PM (GTbGH)

106 Yeah! And Faux News isn't fair and balanced at all! It's right wing!

If you want real news you have to watch Democracy Now! and Countdown with Keith Olbermann!

Posted by: Another College Imbecile at June 23, 2011 03:09 PM (uaEZS)

107 A tragedy ensued.

Posted by: toby928™ at June 23, 2011 03:10 PM (GTbGH)

108 Makes me smile that several teenagers can now earn money for college..
and a grown man can do something for money... even if its min. wage.

Don't teenagers mow lawns anymore? I used to make serious jack.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at June 23, 2011 03:11 PM (QMtmy)

109 So if we don't do something we don't want to do, they absolutely won't allow us to do something else that we also don't want to do.

We will not allow you to slice off your fingers UNLESS you first stab yourself in the eye with a fork.

Is this some sort of sneaky reverse psychology?Because I'm not seeing how this is a particularly persuasive negotiating tactic.

Posted by: Galos Gann at June 23, 2011 03:11 PM (T3KlW)

110 If you want real news you have to watch Democracy Now! and Countdown with Keith Olbermann!
Don't forget to read Media Matters every day!

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at June 23, 2011 03:12 PM (9hSKh)

111
Conservatives must begin paying their fair share, and after all the money stolen from the government by the Republican Party through self-serving tax policies, it's time to pay the piper.

Posted by: Alan Colmes at June 23, 2011 03:13 PM (cwFVA)

112 So I was like "You're a Republican!?!" and the guy says that he just thinks the government should be smaller and taxes should be lower, and I'm like "FUCK YOU, DUDE! Republicans are just a bunch of racist, sexist *ssh*les!"

Posted by: The One Lefty Jerk I Overheard In A University Cafeteria One Time at June 23, 2011 03:14 PM (uaEZS)

113 Now my son got a promotion, raise and got to put the call out to other teenagers who desperately want a job. Illegals are out of work and American teenagers are replacing them.Posted by: Evil ATM out to take your job and your womenCongratulations to you and your son. I had to move to Western NY from southern california several years ago. Funny thing that I found out - That landscapers, gardners, dishwashers, etc. were mostly not from Mexico. They had actual citizens of the US doing these jobs. Imagine my surprise as I had always been told in sunny Cali that illegal immigrants were only doing the job that Americans wouldn't. Imagine my surprise.
My teenage daughter just got a job at a local restaurant and I am so relived. She was getting pretty discouraged.

Posted by: Cheri at June 23, 2011 03:15 PM (oiNtH)

114
You haven't been to college unless it was Ivy League.

Posted by: Zsa Zsa Huffington at June 23, 2011 03:16 PM (cwFVA)

115 "Don't forget to read Media Matters every day!"

This guy was trying to tell me that the media was liberal, and to "prove it" he sites something from MRC. I'm like "Dude! That's a right wing propaganda site!"

So I sent him some Media Matters links to set him straight.

Posted by: Another Effing Liberal at June 23, 2011 03:16 PM (uaEZS)

116 The people who comment on that website are even stupider than the people who write for it.

Posted by: huerfano at June 23, 2011 03:09 PM (izDdO)


Well, it IS a lefty site that I have never been to, but thought the spin was quite interesting.

I refuse to troll the comment sections of such sites, so......

Posted by: © Sponge at June 23, 2011 03:17 PM (UK9cE)

117 Don't teenagers mow lawns anymore? I used to make serious jack.


Posted by: Dr. Varno at June 23, 2011 03:11 PM (QMtmy)

I use to do that too. No more. Its all illegals.

Posted by: Evil ATM out to take your job and your women. at June 23, 2011 03:19 PM (qjUnn)

118 Posted by: ed at June 23, 2011 03:02 PM (Y2WVW)
I'm personaly in favor of a FLAT National sales tax, as long as it replaces both personal Income Tax, AND Business Taxes.
The immediate boom to business in the US would be huge, as the artificial price increases caused by business taxes would be gone, thus our Exports would be much cheaper on the Worlds Market.. thus adding jobs and capital to OUR country.
Add in that Imports would now be taxed at the same rate as Domestic goods when sold? Thus making them LESS competitive to internal US markets? Even more US jobs.
It would also stop the moraly corrupting practice of Federal Government Social Engineering, by making it a FLAT tax... Millionaires would still pay more, as they SPEND more...
And talk about Investment??? Long term investments giving Dividends would RULE, while the micro trades now popular on the market would plummet, because Sales Tax would be charged on EVERY transaction... thus stabalizing the market (IMO the stock market has devolved from a method of aggregating capital to invest and make things, into a virtual Vegas... and this was a bad change).
Just my opinion... and of course nothing is perfect, but I think it is WAY superior to the overlycomplicated system we have today.

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 23, 2011 03:20 PM (NtXW4)

119 If the debt ceiling is not raised, then the government can't borrow any more. 40% of Federal spending is borrowed, so there'd have to be a 40% cut in the size of government.

Given that this is the same bunch of cretins and fools that are arming Mexican drug gangs, chasing tent-living fruitloops dictators around a desert, sending FLOTUS on a nonstop worldwide pleasure tour, and entertaining flacks and freaks on nonstop lobster and wagyu beef extravaganzas, who can't get behind an immediate 40% cut?

So, why deal? What could be accomplished that would be better than what is going to happen anyway?

Posted by: cthulhu at June 23, 2011 03:21 PM (kaalw)

120 Congratulations to you and your son. I had to move to Western NY from southern california several years ago. Funny thing that I found out - That landscapers, gardners, dishwashers, etc. were mostly not from Mexico. They had actual citizens of the US doing these jobs. Imagine my surprise as I had always been told in sunny Cali that illegal immigrants were only doing the job that Americans wouldn't. Imagine my surprise.
My nieces and nephews tell me retail and like jobs, that I took for granted 25 years ago at their age, are hard to come by.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 23, 2011 03:21 PM (ujg0T)

121
My teenage daughter just got a job at a local restaurant and I am so relived. She was getting pretty discouraged.

Posted by: Cheri at June 23, 2011 03:15 PM (oiNtH)
2 freakin years he looked for a job. He was so discouraged. Hardly any of his friends have jobs... well, they do now.Its good for them to have a job as a teenager.. teaches them alot.

Posted by: Evil ATM out to take your job and your women. at June 23, 2011 03:22 PM (qjUnn)

122 Its good for them to have a job as a teenager.. teaches them alot.
In retrospect, I would have done moreafter school job work and lessdippy after school "extracurricular" activities.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 23, 2011 03:25 PM (ujg0T)

123 I had to move to Western NY from southern california several years
ago. Funny thing that I found out - That landscapers, gardners,
dishwashers, etc. were mostly not from Mexico. They had actual citizens
of the US doing these jobs. Imagine my surprise as I had always been
told in sunny Cali that illegal immigrants were only doing the job that
Americans wouldn't.

Very similar experience here - I recently moved from Florida to rural northern Maryland. In Florida, it was all Mexicans all the time. Here, it's ordinary Americans of various ethnicities and colors.

Posted by: Ian S. at June 23, 2011 03:25 PM (tqwMN)

124 OT reminder, there is not such thing as red states and blue states... There are only neuritic blue cities and red small towns and rural areas.

http://tinyurl.com/6em3k6q

link to daily mail, funny how its basically opposite of everything on TV.. its almost as if the media deliberately distorts reality.

Posted by: leftardia at June 23, 2011 03:26 PM (mLAWK)

125 122
Its good for them to have a job as a teenager.. teaches them alot.
In retrospect, I would have done more after school job work and less dippy after school "extracurricular" activities.
Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 23, 2011 03:25 PM (ujg0T)
But she was soooo hawt!!!

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 23, 2011 03:27 PM (NtXW4)

126 The rich can solve our deficit problems.

Posted by: college voter at June 23, 2011 03:28 PM (lS3Hf)

127 Posted by: leftardia at June 23, 2011 03:26 PM (mLAWK)
where'd they get that pic? I don't think i've ever met anyguyin the country that wears "man capris".

Posted by: yinzer at June 23, 2011 03:28 PM (/Mla1)

128 Its good for them to have a job as a teenager.. teaches them alot.
It sure does, and let's face it - it gets them the hell out of the house!
I am so worried that the R's are going to end up giving in to some degree. If they do, I hope the RNC is ready for the huge loss in contributions.

Posted by: Cheri at June 23, 2011 03:28 PM (oiNtH)

129
My first job experience was capitalized with about $5, and consisted of a wood box, brushes, wax, and working businesses for shoeshines.

At 12 years, I could make up to $10 on a good day. Translated into today's dollars, that would probably be about $50-$60. Not a bad gig for a kid!

Posted by: Fish the Impaler at June 23, 2011 03:28 PM (cwFVA)

130 But she was soooo hawt!!!
How did you know? I was stuck in boys prep school and it seemed the only way to meet girls.
In retropsect, even the most menial fast food jobs would have been better for that too. As well as putting $1,500 a year into an IRA in the go-go early 1980's.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 23, 2011 03:29 PM (ujg0T)

131 Very similar experience here - I recently moved from Florida to rural northern Maryland. In Florida, it was all Mexicans all the time. Here, it's ordinary Americans of various ethnicities and colors.
Posted by: Ian S. at June 23, 2011 03:25 PM (tqwMN)

In N. MD too. It's very nice, of only we could break off from the Baltimore Suburban DC counties this would be a great state.

Posted by: yinzer at June 23, 2011 03:29 PM (/Mla1)

132 I washed dishes, worked at retail stores, cut grass... it was no problem getting a job as a teenager.
Got me out of the house and kept gas in my tank and cheeseburgers in my mouth.

Cracks me up my son is now going to be taking over for the guy my son had to learn spanish to even talk to.
The former co workers will be crammed into the next uhaul to a blue state.

Posted by: Evil ATM out to take your job and your women. at June 23, 2011 03:33 PM (qjUnn)

133 "The rich can solve our deficit problems."

Yeah! How much money do they need, anyway?

*toke*

Posted by: Another College Imbecile at June 23, 2011 03:34 PM (uaEZS)

134 Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 23, 2011 03:29 PM (ujg0T)
Hmmm... in my case? I was a High School Pole Vaulter who had to train year round... and had a job...
She was a Gymnast... who was so dedicated she had not had a real life...
But dam we had a lot of.... fun.... /smile...

Posted by: Romeo13 at June 23, 2011 03:36 PM (NtXW4)

135 103

The people who comment on that website are even stupider than the people who write for it.Posted by: huerfano at June 23, 2011 03:09 PM (izDdO)

An complete dump of toxic mental waste ...

Posted by: No Whining at June 23, 2011 03:41 PM (dWOwL)

136 Hmmm... in my case? I was a High School Pole Vaulter who had to train year round... and had a job...
She was a Gymnast... who was so dedicated she had not had a real life...
But dam we had a lot of.... fun.... /smile...
Lucky you. I spent much of that wretched era among peers who missed the casting for "Lord Of The Flies" and contemplating suicide.
But it is a good lesson for the young ones about compound interest...even assuming the Obamunists Oh-flate our money away, the earlier you start the better.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 23, 2011 03:41 PM (ujg0T)

137 I agree with Democrats. I agree that we need tax increases. I don't agree with Dems on who taxes should be raised. I'm of the opinion that tax increases on the masses who currently pay nothing or next-to-nothing should start kicking at least 10% up. Who knows what that might buy? Also, by turning the freeloaders into taxpayers, they might just start getting more conservative about how Government spends its money.

Posted by: Rod Rescueman at June 23, 2011 03:47 PM (HwE/1)

138 Max Baucus- one of the mythical Blue Dog "conservative" Democrats.
Shocking that he'd toe the Dem line of pushing for higher taxes when push came to shove. It's almost like he was campaigning as someone he's not before getting elected.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 23, 2011 03:52 PM (SY2Kh)

139 I would be in favor of a flat 15% tax on ALL income regardless of source and all amounts regardless of how small. No deductions, no carve-outs and no freeloaders. All other federal taxes to be abolished.

The budget would also be limited to the amount from the previous year's tax collections.

This would take an Article V convention.

Posted by: Vic at June 23, 2011 03:55 PM (M9Ie6)

140 We must spend to get out of debt. - Vice President Bite-me

Posted by: chuck in st paul at June 23, 2011 03:58 PM (EhYdw)

141 Soothsayer at June 23, 2011 02:32 PM (sqkOB)
Lucyfootball<strike>Charlie Brown</strike><b>GOP</b>

Posted by: chuck in st paul at June 23, 2011 04:00 PM (EhYdw)

142 [well obviously my tags failed... *sigh*]

Posted by: chuck in st paul at June 23, 2011 04:01 PM (EhYdw)

143 ...and try to balance between Medicare cuts -- additional Medicare cuts -- so long as there is commensurate additional revenue. We need balance here.

I must be a moron. Understand the individual words, but thestatement makes no sense to me.

Posted by: trainer at June 23, 2011 04:27 PM (Rojyk)

144 They have smelled the blood in the water, weak wobbly republicans, and are going in for the kill. Tax hikes here we come.

VOTE ALL THE BUMS OUT!

Posted by: J at June 23, 2011 04:30 PM (T3/qP)

145 GOOD dont you dare return to the table until the other sides understand you are not going to take more money from us ! you jerks cant balance a check book, NO MORE MONEY!!!!
I sure in the hell hope that everyone that is against raising taxes either tweets, emails or calls every member of congress and tells them to NOT RAISE TAXES STOP SPENDING OUR MONEY. Every day starting July 4th Independence day and doesn’t stop until congress gets the message. STOP SPENDING JACKASS.

Posted by: Coldwarrior57 at June 23, 2011 04:35 PM (nYTrG)

146 My college age daughter has yet to find employment this summer. Even the jobs she applied for were only offering 8-14 hours per week, so she would need 2 or even 3 to make any significant money for school. She can't even snag one. Even after I convinced her that since no one was going to hire her as CEO, maybe she should lower her expectations and go the fast-food route. Still no offers.

Now, if this year is like last year, she'll get several calls in August or September wondering if she's still available. Sure she's available, but she's at school 150 miles away, so it's not really a practical option.

One more year and then she can try to find "a real job," whatever that is. I'm sure the economy will be totally in the tank by then. Thanks Obama!

Posted by: Are We Having Fun Yet? at June 23, 2011 04:38 PM (O7Q1u)

147 All 100 blue-eyes kill themselves at midnight...but only after cooking and eating that fucking Frenchman that started the whole thing.

Posted by: trainer at June 23, 2011 04:40 PM (Rojyk)

148

Normal
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NO TAX HIKES - Budget talks have collapsed
all GOP walked out

Posted by: Vic at June 23, 2011 04:50 PM (M9Ie6)

149 148-Awesome!!!!!!
144-If you don't send cheers to your republican congresscritters for this, you are part of the problem.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 23, 2011 04:53 PM (ujg0T)

150 Maybe the Republicans should agree and get the ball rolling with a proposal to increase taxes on congress and union jobs. Just to be fair. Then we will all kick in.

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Posted by: Alexandra Menson at June 23, 2011 05:19 PM (B6Ok3)

152 Senator Baucus' idea of balance is a boilermaker with 6oz. of beer and 6oz. of whisky.

Oh, and sweet, sweet staffer poontang to offset the banalities of matrimony.

Posted by: Fritz at June 23, 2011 06:48 PM (p2IBw)

153 THE DEMOCRATS WANT TAX HIKES LIKE ANTHONY WEINER WANTS HIS DICK SUCKED BY TWITTER GIRLS.

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"Divisive" Politics & "Attacks on Patriotism" (very long)
The Donkey ("The Raven" parody)
News/Chat