Memo to MBM: Maybe You Should Report, One of These Days, That Obama Has Cut Medicare More Savagely Than Paul Ryan Would Even Consider

Seniors are very misinformed. Intentionally, of course. AARP (a partner of the DNC) and the MBM (a junior partner of the DNC) are telling them that Paul Ryan's plan is a threat, and represents cuts in service.

What they are vigorously suppressing with all their might is that Barack Obama already cut trillions from Medicare and, through the Medicare rationing board, has proposed cutting trillions more, in a move he calls "reform" but everyone else knows as simple rationing.

And they're suppressing the fact that the current "plan" for Medicare is for it to go bankrupt in 8 years or so, with seniors facing automatic across-the-board reductions in what Medicare pays their hospitals and doctors. And there is no law that says a doctor or hospital has to accept very-below-market rates of compensation.

They can turn away your business, and dump you off to the sort of doctor who is willing to take small money as payment. They're already doing that now, and they're going to be doing even more of that in the next few years.

The worst seniors-benefits cutter is ObamaCare, which slashed trillions to make room for new Medicaid enrollees. And then on top of that Obama proposed further trillions in cuts as his big idea for balancing the budget. Well, not balancing it, but lying about doing so.

This article is a must-read, and has clarifying graphs attached. I hope if I strongly urge readers to read it the WSJ will excuse a longer-than-usual excerpt:

The Obama administration has repeatedly claimed that the health-reform bill it passed last year improved Medicare's finances. Although you'd never know it from the current state of the Medicare debate—with the Republicans being portrayed as the Medicare Grinches—the claim is true only because ObamaCare explicitly commits to cutting health-care spending for the elderly and the disabled in future years.

Yet almost no one familiar with the numbers thinks that the planned brute-force cuts in Medicare spending are politically feasible. Last August, the Office of the Medicare Actuary predicted that Medicare will be paying doctors less than what Medicaid pays by the end of this decade and, by then, one in seven hospitals will have to leave the Medicare system.

Medicaid is health insurance for poor people, and we pay about that rate for it.

The plan is to make Medicare into health insurance for poor people.

If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor.... as long as you pay him yourself out of your own pocket, because Medicare's going to be paying for "Doctor" Nick Riviera, and I say "Doctor" Nick Riviera because he graduated not from a school of medicine school but instead "graduated" from a "school" of "medicine."

But suppose the law is implemented just as it's written. In that case, according to the Medicare Trustees, Medicare's long-term unfunded liability fell by $53 trillion on the day ObamaCare was signed.

But at what cost to the elderly? Consider people reaching the age of 65 this year. Under the new law, the average amount spent on these enrollees over the remainder of their lives will fall by about $36,000 at today's prices. That sum of money is equivalent to about three years of benefits. For 55-year-olds, the spending decrease is about $62,000—or the equivalent of six years of benefits. For 45-year-olds, the loss is more than $105,000, or nine years of benefits.

In terms of the sheer dollars involved, the law's reduction in future Medicare payments is the equivalent of raising the eligibility age for Medicare to age 68 for today's 65-year-olds, to age 71 for 55-year-olds and to age 74 for 45-year-olds. But rather than keep the system as is and raise the age of eligibility, the reform law instead tries to achieve equivalent savings by paying less to the providers of care.

What does this mean in terms of access to health care? No one knows for sure, but it almost certainly means that seniors will have difficulty finding doctors who will see them and hospitals who will admit them.

And bear in mind, hospitals are supposed to treat everyone, but in fact they do hurry indigent patients out the door. Often just with painkillers and other palliatives. They have to; this is life.

Medicare patients will not be indigents, but they also will be a financial loss to each doctor and hospital treating them. Not a 100% loss, as with an indigent, but a 20-30% or even 40% loss.

Expect 20-30%-40% more "take some codeine and God speed you on your way."

Posted by: Ace at 02:02 PM



Comments

1
Sounds like a job for Fred Karger!

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 27, 2011 02:04 PM (uFokq)

2 If you like your healthcare, you can keep your healthcare

Posted by: Barack Obama at May 27, 2011 02:06 PM (136wp)

3
the Just Run With Ittm media tell the whole story? Nah.

All people need to know is that Ryan and the Republicans want to "slash" and "privatize" Medicare.

Posted by: Soothsayer at May 27, 2011 02:06 PM (uFokq)

4 Obama cutting Medicare? Never heard of it.

Posted by: Charlie Gibson at May 27, 2011 02:07 PM (3nrx7)

5 Democrats advice to seniors: Die Quickly.

Posted by: toby928™ at May 27, 2011 02:08 PM (GTbGH)

6 Hi everybody!

Posted by: Dr. Nick Riviera at May 27, 2011 02:09 PM (2p0e3)

7 I have, however, heard a lot about how Republicans are plotting to kill your grandmother by force feeding her dog food. That's part of the Palin Doctrine or Paul Doctrine, or something.

Posted by: Charlie Gibson at May 27, 2011 02:09 PM (3nrx7)

8 I know MSM and MFM, but MBM?

Posted by: buzz at May 27, 2011 02:09 PM (i27M5)

9 You mean, you want us to... tell the truth about the Democrats' plans! We couldn't do that to our good friends...

Posted by: Republican Strategerists at May 27, 2011 02:09 PM (7mSYS)

10 Hey, man, don't be badmouthing codeine. That's some good stuff.

Posted by: Robert Stacy McCain at May 27, 2011 02:09 PM (AeJjI)

11
1. Destroy everything
2. ???
3. Profit!

Posted by: The Current Plan at May 27, 2011 02:10 PM (FcR7P)

12 If republicans don't push this they could lose to a president with 9% unemployment and $5 a gallon gas.

Posted by: Dr Spank at May 27, 2011 02:11 PM (1fB+3)

13 MBM?

Posted by: buzz at May 27, 2011 02:09 PM (i27M5)
Make Believe Media

Posted by: Barbarian at May 27, 2011 02:11 PM (EL+OC)

14 the Just Run With Ittm media tell the whole story? Nah.All people need to know is that Ryan and the Republicans want to "slash" and "privatize" Medicare.
And it is all the evil insurance companies' fault,. Don't forget that....

Posted by: Mostly Biased Media (TM) at May 27, 2011 02:11 PM (ujg0T)

15 Do you get paid for all the Pulled Out of Ass Lies and run-of-the-mill propaganda you forward from the insurance industry?

You should get something, ace. At least a 1/2-off coupon for nut-sack enlargement surgery.

Posted by: Dr. Benway at May 27, 2011 02:11 PM (UNYHV)

16 MBM actually report, hell Ace that is bad enough, but report negatives about the Dems????? That is insane.

Posted by: Vic at May 27, 2011 02:12 PM (M9Ie6)

17 12
If republicans don't push this they could lose to a president with 9% unemployment and $5 a gallon gas.

We're working on that. Fore!

Posted by: Barbarian at May 27, 2011 02:12 PM (EL+OC)

18 I support whatever Obama tells me to, so long as he'll announce that I forced him to cut $2.84 from whatever he proposes.

Now STFU you ungrateful bitches, or you'll make me cry.

Posted by: John Boehner at May 27, 2011 02:13 PM (3nrx7)

19 Do you get paid for all the Pulled Out of Ass Lies and run-of-the-mill propaganda you forward from the insurance industry?You should get something, ace. At least a 1/2-off coupon for nut-sack enlargement surgery.
Posted by: Dr. Benway at May 27, 2011 02:11 PM (UNYHV)
Why don't you put some truth and knowledge on us dickwad? If you disagree with Ace's analysis then tell us where. Otherwise fuck off with your make believe outrage.

Posted by: robtr at May 27, 2011 02:13 PM (MtwBb)

20 Lie, obfuscate, deceive, demagogue,and lie some more.
That's what our media has devolved to. It's too bad that we on the right can't seem to collectively disseminate this message all at once, and in the process, truly serve as the Alternative Media we callourselves.
Our only hope is Fox News. That's the only national news outlet I can think of that could accomplish this feat.
Short of massive boycotts of the MFM, how do we effectively counter them and make sure the truth gets out? These anti-Americans need to go down, and hard. But how?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 27, 2011 02:14 PM (d0Tfm)

21 My great-great-great grandmother who stepped off the boat at Ellis Island voted Democrat, and if Satan ran as a Democrat I'd still vote for him!

Posted by: Ignorant, Robotic Democrat who Uses Hyperbole at May 27, 2011 02:14 PM (BP6Z1)

22 >>Posted by: Dr. Benway

I don't trust any dentist who performs prostrate exams.

Posted by: Dr Spank at May 27, 2011 02:15 PM (1fB+3)

23 HI!...Dr. Nick.

Posted by: garrett at May 27, 2011 02:15 PM (iOz9w)

24 Yeah, the MBM has just been waiting for something to use to criticize teh Won. This oughta do it.

Posted by: real joe at May 27, 2011 02:16 PM (IpIBJ)

25 >> I don't trust any dentist who performs prostrate exams.
Posted by: Dr Spank at May 27, 2011 02:15 PM (1fB+3)

I do.

Posted by: Bwarney Fwank at May 27, 2011 02:16 PM (3nrx7)

26 well, so they are doing something about costs then.

Posted by: What Me Worry? at May 27, 2011 02:16 PM (6kWas)

27
Posted by: Dr. Benway at May 27, 2011 02:11 PM (UNYHV)

Hey look, ergie is back!

Posted by: chemjeff at May 27, 2011 02:17 PM (7mSYS)

28 MBM?
Posted by: buzz at May 27, 2011 02:09 PM (i27M5)

Manny Being Manny

Posted by: Manny Ramirez at May 27, 2011 02:17 PM (iOz9w)

29 Others have said it, and it bears repeating if the GOP wants to have any chance.

You want to kill Medicare? Do nothing. That's the Democrat plan.

Posted by: George Orwell at May 27, 2011 02:17 PM (AZGON)

30 We have to burn down the Medicare to save it.

Posted by: John "Jenjis Khan" Kerry at May 27, 2011 02:17 PM (BP6Z1)

31 13
MBM?

Posted by: buzz at May 27, 2011 02:09 PM (i27M5)
Make Believe Media
Heh. You're welcome fuckstick.

Posted by: Barbarian at May 27, 2011 02:18 PM (EL+OC)

32 Make Believe MPosted by: Barbarian at May 27, 2011 02:11 PM (EL+OC)

Oh, is it like the Make Believe Ballroom? I loved that show! Is Lawrence Welk coming back too?

Posted by: Aunt Betty, soon to face Obama death panel at May 27, 2011 02:19 PM (6kWas)

33 Do you get paid for all the Pulled Out of Ass Lies and run-of-the-mill propaganda you forward from the insurance industry?Do you really believewe can just dump more people into Medicare and cut the payments to Medicare and *not* have to ration it ? You are a good little dupe.
In other news, you can't put anything in your mouth or anus without consequence.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at May 27, 2011 02:19 PM (ujg0T)

34 Woah. Typo in the headline alert.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at May 27, 2011 02:20 PM (sG+Bw)

35 I don't trust any dentist who performs prostrate exams.



Posted by: Dr Spank at May 27, 2011 02:15 PM (1fB+3)

--How can the doctor check your heartbeat if his face is on the floor?

Posted by: logprof at May 27, 2011 02:20 PM (BP6Z1)

36 Expect 20-30%-40% more "take some codeine and God speed you on your way."

In other news, demand for Oxycodone, the main drug used to treat pain in cancer patients rose sharply. Demand for the latest chemical therapy treatments, however, have sharply declined.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at May 27, 2011 02:21 PM (0q2P7)

37 Someone (besides Paul Ryan) needs to be saying this:

"It is not a question of IF Medicare funding gets cut. The question is HOW will it be cut. The Democrat plan is to let it just collapse without any regard for those who depend upon it. The Republican plan is to do everything we can to make the transition from the current scheme to one which is actually sustainable as painless as possible for those who most desperately need our assistance."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 27, 2011 02:21 PM (8y9MW)

38 Woah. Typo in the headline alert.
Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at May 27, 2011 02:20 PM (sG+Bw)
considere is french, ace is trying to class up the place

Posted by: robtr at May 27, 2011 02:21 PM (MtwBb)

39 I don't pray much. In face I almost never pray. But I think I shall start praying for a candidate that does not have at least one huge defect, and a GOP that cam find the wherewithall to pull it's huge swelled head from it's fat ass.

Posted by: maddogg at May 27, 2011 02:21 PM (OlN4e)

40 34
Woah. Typo in the headline alert.

Posted by: chique d'afrique (the artist formerly known as african chick) at May 27, 2011 02:20 PM (sG+Bw)

--Maybe he's sprinkling in some French?

Posted by: logprof out on a limb at May 27, 2011 02:21 PM (BP6Z1)

41 ObamaCare explicitly commits to cutting health-care spending for the elderly and the disabled in future years.

Lather, rinse, repeat. I don't care if David Fucking Gregory asks GOP candidate X about the price of caviar in Manhattan, your answer is quoted above.

Posted by: George Orwell at May 27, 2011 02:22 PM (AZGON)

42 Do you really believewe can just dump more people into Medicare and cut the payments to Medicare and *not* have to ration it ?

You bet, because doctors will work to save people, they aren't interested in money or anything, plus who cares if they can't afford a BMW, boo hoo for them!!!!! Time to stick it to teh evul doctors!!! I bet they're Rethuglicans anyway!!!!!!

Posted by: Typical Libtard Idjit at May 27, 2011 02:22 PM (7mSYS)

43 Do you get paid for all the Pulled Out of Ass Lies and run-of-the-mill propaganda you forward from the insurance industry?
Kindly inform us of your unique wisdom and please point specifically to each and every part of this post that's incorrect in your inestimable opinion. We'd also appreciate your copious use of accurate links to back up your assertions, Dr. Benway.
Do tell us how the insurance industry, while operating under the many state and federal laws that it must, are to blame for our current situation. We're certain that your employees,friends and neighbors who work in healthcare would be very interested in what you have to say, especially since you appear to be a doctor.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 27, 2011 02:22 PM (d0Tfm)

44 but in fact they do hurry indigent patients out the door. Often just with painkillers and other palliatives.

This is just ignorant ranting. What we do (at least in my hospital) is treat the patient and absorb the loss, which is passed on to other, paying patients in the form of higher cost. Either provide proof of your statement, or back off the stupidity.

Posted by: countrydoc at May 27, 2011 02:22 PM (XweGx)

45 Ahem. It's "Doctorb Nick". The "b" is for "bargain"!

Posted by: Schaeffer at May 27, 2011 02:23 PM (ZN0re)

46 The argument that doing nothing will result in cuts to Medicare isn't bad- mostly because it's true- but how do well sell it convincingly in a quick talking point or ad? The Dems will simply counter with "nuh-uh, no it won't. I promise", and to prove them wrong involves big numbers and math that aren't easy to portray in a 15 second ad.
We should definitely be hitting on the fact that Obama already cut half a trillion from Medicare to fund his pet Obamacare project.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at May 27, 2011 02:23 PM (SY2Kh)

47 considere is french, ace is trying to class up the place
He's got DSK on the brain.

Posted by: Delta Smelt at May 27, 2011 02:23 PM (dWPyO)

48 It wouldn't suck if John Boehner would show an ounce of leadership and get his ass out there on this one. Except for Ryan, the left is completely dominating (and therefore defining) the Medicare issue. And it's not like it's brain surgery, it's low-hanging fruit. Simply exasperating.

Posted by: Blacksheep at May 27, 2011 02:23 PM (8/DeP)

49 What is needed is more LAB COATS!

Orders of 500 or more receive our Presidential Discount and an embroidered O logo at no extra charge!

Act now and get half off our stock of our official ObamaCare logo lab coats!

Our Lab Coats give you the instant creditability you need before pretending to be a doctor at press conferences with Sheila Jackson Lee, at White House photo ops, or when posting on AOSHQ!

Posted by: Lab Coats R US, official White House Prop Vendor at May 27, 2011 02:23 PM (3nrx7)

50 Ace: "Considere" is a MBW (make believe word)

spell check is a moron's best friend.

Posted by: USA at May 27, 2011 02:24 PM (msep2)

51 In other news, demand for Oxycodone, the main drug used to treat pain in cancer patients rose sharply. Demand for the latest chemical therapy treatments, however, have sharply declined.

Linky?

You know, stuff like this needs to be repeated over and over. With sources. Repetition is paramount in advertising, and little facts like the one above need to be pounded like piledriver on a post.

Posted by: George Orwell at May 27, 2011 02:24 PM (AZGON)

52 Maybe they should report that Obama has cut medicare more what?

Posted by: The Mega Independent at May 27, 2011 02:24 PM (WPERq)

53 But I think I shall start praying for a candidate that does not have at least one huge defect
Posted by: maddogg at May 27, 2011 02:21 PM (OlN4e)

Well, certainly the return of Jesus Christ would solve all our problems (well, for some of us, anyway), but I wouldn't count on that. How about, instead, we look at the flawed candidates we have, and find the one who is least objectionable?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 27, 2011 02:24 PM (8y9MW)

54 This thread is totally hawt ...

Posted by: Totally Hawt Honey Badger ben DOOM! at May 27, 2011 02:25 PM (GvYeG)

55 Delta, you listening to Jay Mohr?

Posted by: logprof out on a limb at May 27, 2011 02:26 PM (BP6Z1)

56 yep. In my industry, mortgages, there is now a % cap on closing costs that means we would lose money doing smaller loans if we didn't tell those people to fuck the fuck off as we do now.

Posted by: adios mofo at May 27, 2011 02:26 PM (mr695)

57 the Medicare debate totally opens the Dems up to Obamacare, I can't believe we're not taking advantage, get on the ball GOP!

Posted by: YRM (Heat In The Finals & Now On To Game 7...) at May 27, 2011 02:26 PM (UzBwz)

58 We should definitely be hitting on the fact that Obama already cut half a trillion from Medicare to fund his pet Obamacare project.


Perfectly good point, and concise. Never mind that Demotards will lie in response. Just keep repeating it, and you can quote the chapter and verse of the bill if needed.

Posted by: George Orwell at May 27, 2011 02:26 PM (AZGON)

59
Argument #1: "ObamaCare has put
Medicare on an even steeper path to failure than it was on before.
Republicans know that without changes from the post-ObamaCare status
quo, Medicare will cease to exist. We challenge the Democrats: either
show us how Medicare survives without any changes or show us what
changes you propose we make. Anyone who supports doing nothing is a
supporter of bankrupting Medicare."
Argument #2: "ObamaCare robs Medicare of a half-trillion dollars
and sets up a 15-member 'death panel' to ration the care you are allowed
to get. Republicans want you, not unelected bureaucrats, to control
your own health care choices."

Posted by: stuiec at May 27, 2011 02:27 PM (HMdeP)

60 You should get something, ace. At least a 1/2-off coupon for nut-sack enlargement surgery.

Posted by: Dr. Benway at May 27, 2011 02:11 PM (UNYHV)

Oooh look my made up title is higher ranking than yours. So I can say you're wrong and you suck; and I win because ♫my title is bigger than yours.♫

PTHHHHHHHHBBBBB!!!

Posted by: His Grand Exalted Highness MikeTheMoose at May 27, 2011 02:27 PM (0q2P7)

61 The upside of slashing payments is that fewer doctors will be seduced into unnecessary foot and tonsil amputations.

Posted by: Ted Kennedy's Gristle Encased Head at May 27, 2011 02:27 PM (+lsX1)

62

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Maybe You
Should Report, One of These Days, That Obama Has Cut Medicare More Savagely
Than Paul Ryan Would Even Considere


... Or do they?

Wait, I'm doing it wrong, again.

Posted by: Papa Editor at May 27, 2011 02:27 PM (Zs83Q)

63 >>>-How can the doctor check your heartbeat if his face is on the floor?

Come by my place and I'll show you how mine does it!

Posted by: Bwaney Fwank at May 27, 2011 02:27 PM (3nrx7)

64 Magento!

Posted by: Cerebo at May 27, 2011 02:28 PM (136wp)

65 Medicare will be paying doctors less than what Medicaid pays by the end of this decade.
And doctors are excited as can beat the prospect ofbeing paid less than their operating costs for the privilege seeing waiting rooms full of patients and getting to domassive amounts of extra government-mandated paperwork as well. /sarc
Doctors are smart and have the means to go Galt when ObamaCare becomes a fait accompli. Watch for it.

Posted by: Avogadra at May 27, 2011 02:28 PM (dtIOD)

66 48
It wouldn't suck if John Boehner would show an ounce of leadership and
get his ass out there on this one. Except for Ryan, the left is
completely dominating (and therefore defining) the Medicare issue. And
it's not like it's brain surgery, it's low-hanging fruit. Simply
exasperating.

Posted by: Blacksheep at May 27, 2011 02:23 PM (8/DeP)

John is busy now.

Posted by: Boehner's Feather Duster at May 27, 2011 02:29 PM (EL+OC)

67 Linky?

Dude; It was a joke. Maybe the funny wasn't anywhere near the strike zone, but it was still a joke.

Posted by: HGEH MikeTheMoose at May 27, 2011 02:29 PM (0q2P7)

68 As a matter of fact, we have an indigent program where the hospital provides free testing, even as an outpatient. All you pay is the doctors fees (since the doctor is usually not an employee of the hospital). This includes X-rays and CT's. The only time I've had a test turned down on this program was for an MRI for back pain. $3000 for a non-threatening condition, I couldn't blame them and I took a CT instead, which was payed for.

Posted by: countrydoc at May 27, 2011 02:29 PM (XweGx)

69 Delta, you listening to Jay Mohr?
No but I would have been had I known he was subbing. The local hacks (monkeys)have been messing with the schedule, although at this point, I could listen online. It's about over now though.

Posted by: Delta Smelt at May 27, 2011 02:29 PM (dWPyO)

70 63
>>>-How can the doctor check your heartbeat if his face is on the floor?





Come by my place and I'll show you how mine does it!

Posted by: Bwaney Fwank at May 27, 2011 02:27 PM (3nrx7)
--Now now, someone yesterday said that Barney Frank socks are not funny.So it is written . . .

Posted by: logprof trying to keep up with the rulz at May 27, 2011 02:30 PM (BP6Z1)

71 A friend of my mom's husband (Jesus, I sound like curious) went to med school in Grenada. He is ... not a smart man. I wouldn't let him examine my stool.

Posted by: JackStraw at May 27, 2011 02:30 PM (x+EIF)

72 Posted by: countrydoc at May 27, 2011 02:22 PM (XweGx)

I was just going to let it pass, but countrydoc is right- people aren't going to miss out on life-saving emergency/urgent care. It just won't happen. What WILL happen is that the hospitals will eat that loss, write it off their taxes, and charge higher fees to their other patients to make up the difference.

And, no, they won't be rushed out the door, either. The doctors and hospitals will do everything in their power to see to it that the patient is well (or, at least, solidly on the mend) before sending them home.

What's probably more important to the Viagra generation is that they will be less willing to see Medicare patients who have minor or cosmetic issues.

You will also see more referrals to Hospice and End-of-life care for things like Cancer and such, but I suspect that (at first, at least) even that will be limited to things where treatment is only going to give X months more life. I would expect anyone with a prognosis that says they can be cured would receive the necessary care.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 27, 2011 02:30 PM (8y9MW)

73 But rather than keep the system as is and raise the age of eligibility, the reform law instead tries to achieve equivalent savings by paying less to the providers of care.

You get what you pay for. It is an inexorable axiom. Make no mistake, this WILL degrade the medical treatment you expect in the future.

Posted by: George Orwell at May 27, 2011 02:30 PM (AZGON)

74 50 Ace: "Considere" is a MBW (make believe word) spell check is a moron's best friend.
Posted by: USA at May 27, 2011 02:24 PM (msep2)
You better be careful with that. Ace may decide that correct spelling is racist....

Posted by: T-Paw Diddy Swag at May 27, 2011 02:31 PM (c45xH)

75 15 Do you get paid for all the Pulled Out of Ass Lies and run-of-the-mill propaganda you forward from the insurance industry?

Speaking as one with a 25 year long career in the health insurance industry, may I please say go fuck yourself. Even the most profitable insurance carriers only have earnings somewhere in the neighborhood of 4%. I'm sick to death of the goddamn lies. They offer a product that people are (should say were) free to purchase or not. And they are entitled to make a profit from that product.

Posted by: Dumb_Blonde at May 27, 2011 02:31 PM (q1/Wn)

76
Delta, you listening to Jay Mohr?


No but I would have been had I known he was subbing. The local hacks
(monkeys)have been messing with the schedule, although at this point, I
could listen online. It's about over now though.

Posted by: Delta Smelt at May 27, 2011 02:29 PM (dWPyO)
--30 minutes is still worth it!

Posted by: logprof at May 27, 2011 02:31 PM (BP6Z1)

77 Dude; It was a joke. Maybe the funny wasn't anywhere near the strike zone, but it was still a joke.

Hey, stuff like this is not a joke in the UK. Seriously. And that is where we are headed.

Posted by: George Orwell at May 27, 2011 02:31 PM (AZGON)

78 71
A friend of my mom's husband (Jesus, I sound like curious) went to med
school in Grenada. He is ... not a smart man. I wouldn't let him
examine my stool.




Posted by: JackStraw at May 27, 2011 02:30 PM (x+EIF)
I usually take a broken stool to the furniture store

Posted by: The Robot Devil at May 27, 2011 02:31 PM (136wp)

79 58 We should definitely be hitting on the fact that Obama already cut half a trillion from Medicare to fund his pet Obamacare project. Perfectly good point, and concise. Never mind that Demotards will lie in response. Just keep repeating it, and you can quote the chapter and verse of the bill if needed.


Yes, but he did propose a values driven 8-page budget that 97 Senators voted against. The racists. So its not really his fault and all. (Think I can get a job at the WAPO?)

Posted by: Sub-tard at May 27, 2011 02:31 PM (Q5+Og)

80 71
A friend of my mom's husband (Jesus, I sound like curious) went to med
school in Grenada. He is ... not a smart man. I wouldn't let him
examine my stool.







Posted by: JackStraw at May 27, 2011 02:30 PM (x+EIF)
--If he was in school in 1983, I bet he's got some cool stories though.

Posted by: logprof at May 27, 2011 02:32 PM (BP6Z1)

81 Is the summary here that he's transferring medical care from voters he can't rely on to his fully-pandered base?

Posted by: t-bird at May 27, 2011 02:32 PM (FcR7P)

82 @59
Now, was that so hard?

You ought to be charging the GOP a consultancy fee.

Posted by: George Orwell at May 27, 2011 02:32 PM (AZGON)

83 I have been pounding this into my mother. She asks me every other day and I assure her Paul Ryan isn't going to push her off the cliff. I have explained it as well as I can without making her eyes glaze over. She is finally believing it but she has too many friends who don't. Most of them spend their days going to the doctor, going to the store and the rest of it watching TV. Most of them still watch NBC, CBS and ABC and just catch soundbites and we all know how the lamestream media is handling this. It's maddening.

Posted by: jewells45 at May 27, 2011 02:33 PM (l/N7H)

84 But no more circumcision cuts in Santa Monica or San Francisco.

Posted by: USA at May 27, 2011 02:33 PM (msep2)

85 He is ... not a smart man. I wouldn't let him examine my stool.







Posted by: JackStraw at May 27, 2011 02:30 PM (x+EIF)
It'd be interesting to see him try to hear its heartbeat and take its pulse.

Posted by: stuiec at May 27, 2011 02:33 PM (HMdeP)

86 Speaking as one with a 25 year long career in the health insurance industry, may I please say go fuck yourself. Even the most profitable insurance carriers only have earnings somewhere in the neighborhood of 4%. I'm sick to death of the goddamn lies. They offer a product that people are (should say were) free to purchase or not. And they are entitled to make a profit from that product.
This.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 27, 2011 02:33 PM (d0Tfm)

87 He is ... not a smart man. I wouldn't let him examine my stool.

Well, Dammit JackStraw, he's a doctor, not a carpenter.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 27, 2011 02:33 PM (8y9MW)

88 Some of the Rs have been saying this but the rest of them are either too timid to attack Obama or merely refuse to try. Anonymous GOP insiders like this:

“Members know that you don’t piss off senior citizens, and they know
that this was handled badly, that there was no messaging, that Ryan’s
not making his case and they are all looking down the road thinking, ‘Oh
my God, it’s coming.'"

So some of them refuse to go on offense because they're worried about losing their seats. What they don't realize is that they might lose their seat because they refused to compare/contrast the R and D plans for Medicare.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at May 27, 2011 02:33 PM (CLYmB)

89 --Now now, someone yesterday said that Barney Frank socks are not funny.

Posted by: logprof trying to keep up with the rulz at May 27, 2011 02:30 PM (BP6Z1)
Yea, you try to stay clean-smelling being shoved in a shoe with that sausage stuffer...

Posted by: Generic Bwarny Fwank Socks at May 27, 2011 02:34 PM (136wp)

90 What is needed is more LAB COATS!
And "barefoot doctors" to fill them. The Oba-maoists are working on it....

Posted by: Curmudgeon at May 27, 2011 02:34 PM (ujg0T)

91 Had another patient that I referred for a deep abscess. Both the hospital and the surgeon did it gratis. Can we do this all the time, for everyone? No, but we take large losses on a lot of cases around here.

Posted by: countrydoc at May 27, 2011 02:34 PM (XweGx)

92 John Boehner, time for a meeting.

Posted by: Tea Party Jesus at May 27, 2011 02:34 PM (EL+OC)

93 considerer:

Je considere
Tu consideres
Il considerons
Vous considerez
Nous considerent
Ace considerespade

Posted by: Joseph Ordinaires at May 27, 2011 02:35 PM (bN5ZU)

94 This is just ignorant ranting. What we do (at least in my hospital) is treat the patient and absorb the loss, which is passed on to other, paying patients in the form of higher cost. Either provide proof of your statement, or back off the stupidity.
Posted by: countrydoc at May 27, 2011 02:22 PM (XweGx)
Really? Your emergency room makes appointments for people for follow up care? Gives them long term perscriptions for chronic illness? Refers them to specialists and pays for the specialists out of your emergency room?
Or does it just do the best it can for the one visit the patient makes to the emergency room? I'm not being snarky I am truley interested because I haven't even heard that from democrats. What I have heard is that while hospitals tread indigents who wander into to their emergency room the treatment ends when they walk out unless they happen to go back on their own.
I could be wrong though.

Posted by: robtr at May 27, 2011 02:35 PM (MtwBb)

95 --30 minutes is still worth it!
Yeah I just started listening. Did a random google search and am tuning in via Albuquerque's 610 The Animal!

Posted by: Delta Smelt at May 27, 2011 02:35 PM (dWPyO)

96 Signed into law by Pres. Sarah Palin, the Ryan plan immediately slashes Granny's benefits. Obamacare may, in some knucklehead future, slash granny's benefits because Congress has failed to modify the law by eliminating the things that Republicans really love: subsidies for pharmaceutical companies, and legal protection for insurance oligopolies.

All of this doesn't really fucking matter, because at some point, there will have to be a single-payer scheme to reduce costs, whether the knuckleheads like it or not.

Ace, who is a belligerent tool, used to think that there was indeed something wrong with the present system of healthcare, but retreated from the rational view because hotair told him.

Posted by: Dr. Benway at May 27, 2011 02:35 PM (UNYHV)

97 He is ... not a smart man. I wouldn't let him examine my stool.

I'm standing back when CPR starts.

Posted by: t-bird at May 27, 2011 02:36 PM (FcR7P)

98 Both the hospital and the surgeon did it gratis. Can we do this all the time, for everyone? No, but we take large losses on a lot of cases around here.

Well, I think there's a point when you've made enough money.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at May 27, 2011 02:36 PM (AZGON)

99 ace: And there is no law that says a doctor or hospital has to accept very-below-market rates of compensation.
That's right. Except for the emergency room.
But....
There soon will be. If it comes down to it, they will pass a law mandating you accept them. It will basically say that if you want to be licensed or keep your license to practice medicine in the U.S., you must accept the government rates for Medicare/aid, AND accept any and all Medicare/aid patients who walk into your office.
And if anyone wants to bleat about how "that wouldn't be constitutional'...look around at what's been going on in the U.S. recently and tell me that document still means more than a wet shit.

Posted by: ed at May 27, 2011 02:36 PM (Y2WVW)

100 It must be Memorial Day weekend, we have now started talking about stools, and it's not even the ONT.

Posted by: Delta Smelt at May 27, 2011 02:37 PM (dWPyO)

101 Je considere
Tu consideres
Il considerons
Vous considerez
Nous considerent
Ace considerespade

Zut alors! Un tel pédagogue.

Posted by: George Orwell at May 27, 2011 02:38 PM (AZGON)

102 Posted by: countrydoc at May 27, 2011 02:34 PM (XweGx)

Here's the question though: based on how many senior citizens you treat at the hospital (I have no idea what percentage of your patient base that is), would you be able to work at a loss on all Senior Care? And stay in business? Or would you have to make rationing choices about whose care is more urgently needed?

Posted by: robtr at May 27, 2011 02:35 PM (MtwBb)


If it's a county hospital, it probably does. I'm pretty sure some Christian run hospitals (Baylor, Methodist, etc.) do the same thing.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 27, 2011 02:38 PM (8y9MW)

103 Congress has failed to modify the law by eliminating the things that Republicans really love: subsidies for pharmaceutical companies, and legal protection for insurance oligopolies.
Because punishing the providers just works so well in increasing supply....
Your mouth and anus are begging you to stop, but it's probably too late to avoid the consequences....

Posted by: Curmudgeon at May 27, 2011 02:38 PM (ujg0T)

104 John C. Goodman has been gulping hot insurance industry cock his entire professional life. A fucking hack. A real republican machine "expert."

Posted by: Dr. Benway at May 27, 2011 02:39 PM (UNYHV)

105 Or does it just do the best it can for the one visit the patient makes to the emergency room?

From what I've heard (from an extremely liberal ER doc who wants to help), the ER is their primary physician. Colds, pains, etc. And the doctors do give them prescriptions and set them up for follow-ups with various agencies.

Posted by: t-bird at May 27, 2011 02:39 PM (FcR7P)

106 I'm not too busy this week to lend a hand at someone's beach home.

Posted by: Ed Shultz at May 27, 2011 02:39 PM (le5qc)

107 Waiver? What waiver? I don't know what you are talking about. We love Obamacare.

Posted by: AARP at May 27, 2011 02:40 PM (AZGON)

108 --30 minutes is still worth it!

Yeah I just started listening. Did a random google search and am tuning in via Albuquerque's 610 The Animal!

Posted by: Delta Smelt at May 27, 2011 02:35 PM (dWPyO)
--He's killing it with the CSI:Miami e-mails

Posted by: logprof at May 27, 2011 02:41 PM (BP6Z1)

109 legal protection for insurance oligopolies

Are you retarded? What fucking legal protection? The ones where the product offered has to conform to every goddamn thing some idiot dreams up?

Posted by: Dumb_Blonde at May 27, 2011 02:41 PM (q1/Wn)

110 Why are we forcing one group of citizens to pay for the medical treatment of another group of citizens?

Posted by: Just Askin' at May 27, 2011 02:41 PM (tybhV)

111 Posted by: Dr. Benway at May 27, 2011 02:35 PM (UNYHV)
Good Morning ergie. Glad to see you are working really hard at the state job you have in Colorado.
What is the matter, big guy? Your generous state funded health insurance plan tell you that dick transplant surgery wasn't covered?

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at May 27, 2011 02:42 PM (OWjjx)

112 101
It must be Memorial Day weekend, we have now started talking about stools, and it's not even the ONT.

Posted by: Delta Smelt at May 27, 2011 02:37 PM (dWPyO)

Now what?

Posted by: painful stool at May 27, 2011 02:42 PM (BP6Z1)

113 Obamacare = morphine + hospice.

(This is why I am no longer an organ donor. I don't want to give them anymore incentive to let me die than they already have.)

Posted by: Clubber Lang at May 27, 2011 02:42 PM (QcFbt)

114 All of this doesn't really fucking matter

Because I'm still right and your still wrong!!!! (Big title remember!!??)

You know how socialist single payer systems control costs?
Government mandated rationing.
Patient malpractice rights severely restricted.

My fav is Canada. Their doctors have an oooops clause that gets them out of malpractice. Call it an honest mistake. They were just incompetent, no malpractice. You have to prove deliberate negligence, eg prove that the KNEW better and still didn't do it right.

All your hem-hawing will never make single payer a better system.

Posted by: HGEH MikeTheMoose at May 27, 2011 02:42 PM (0q2P7)

115 98 Well, I think there's a point when you've made enough money.
__

Circumcision doctors don't earn a lot. But they make a lot of tips.

Posted by: USA at May 27, 2011 02:43 PM (msep2)

116 Well, certainly the return of Jesus Christ would solve all our problems (well, for some of us, anyway), but I wouldn't count on that. How about, instead, we look at the flawed candidates we have, and find the one who is least objectionable?
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 27, 2011 02:24 PM (8y9MW)
As usual.

Posted by: maddogg at May 27, 2011 02:44 PM (OlN4e)

117 because at some point, there will have to be a single-payer scheme to reduce costs

Okay, this is beyond merely ignorant. I could ignore the other one because of "merely stupid," but you have now graduated to "criminally stupid."

A single payer scheme (indeed, any form of health payment "scheme") will not, yea- cannot, reduce costs. All it can do (in theory) is reduce Prices. But, Economics 101: there is always more demand for something at a lower price than there is for that same thing at a higher price. Corollary: lower prices always reduce supply, as those providing the supply seek some other source of greater profit.

So, your Utopian Single Payer scheme will necessarilly: inflate demand while simultaneously reducing supply- causing the wonderful nightmare of treatment that exists in all other countries with single payer health care.

If you want to reduce costs of health care, you have to reduce the regulatory burden on hospitals, doctors, and auxilliary providers (drug companies, imaging clinics, DME manufacturers, etc.). Then you have to institute some substantial tort reform to remove some of the uncertainty from the market. That is, you actually have to improve the chances of a given care provider making a significant profit by using their labor to provide health care services.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 27, 2011 02:45 PM (8y9MW)

118 A martini a day helps keep the doctors at bay. One olive or two?

Posted by: Dr. Fritz, Barber, Bartender, and Shaman at May 27, 2011 02:45 PM (AN8d5)

119 George Orwell, il est préférable d'être un pédagogue qu'un homme qui a des relations sexuelles avec des chèvres et des pastèques comme Ace.

Posted by: Joseph Ordinaires at May 27, 2011 02:45 PM (bN5ZU)

120 Really? Your emergency room makes appointments for people for follow up
care? Gives them long term perscriptions for chronic illness? Refers
them to specialists and pays for the specialists out of your emergency
room?

Emergency rooms don't do f/u appts, I do. They refer them to me and the other docs. ER's never write long term prescripts. That would be inappropriate since they do not do long term care. Again, they refer them to us. Same sort of thing with specialists. The ER refers them to one of us and we refer them on to specialists. If someone can't afford my fee, we do payment plans or, if its important we just write it off and try to make the best of it.

Be back in a bit.

Posted by: countrydoc at May 27, 2011 02:46 PM (XweGx)

121 ergie, for fuck's sake, can you ever present an argument that doesn't entail a false dichotomy?

Posted by: joncelli at May 27, 2011 02:46 PM (RD7QR)

122 Patient malpractice rights severely restricted

I'm not advocating a draconian restriction here but we need some kind of reform. A big part of the problem is that providers have to cover their ass so much that costs skyrocket on every case.

Posted by: Dumb_Blonde at May 27, 2011 02:46 PM (q1/Wn)

123 John C. Goodman Erg has been gulping hot Obama cock insurance industry cock his entire professional life. A fucking whorehack. A real republican glory hole machine "expert."
FIFY

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at May 27, 2011 02:47 PM (OWjjx)

124 Ace, who is a belligerent tool, used to think that there was indeed something wrong with the present system of healthcare, but retreated from the rational view because hotair told him.

Dr. Benway there already is a single payer and has been ever since the Congress mandated medical treatment to all comers. This mandate has caused rediculous results in risk and return decisions by the insured. The only real single payer system is one that recognizes the individual rather than a collective as the patient and therefore the payer. Change the taxsystem to permit individuals to shop for Cat Care policies and give them an annual deduction against income of $5k into a Med IRA. Don't raid these accounts at the end of every year, but let them accumulate value for each year of income. If you follow this prescription most of your population will be encouraged to stay healthy because it makes them wealthy. Further, as they age, the have greater assets to secure med insurance at higher deductibles. Finally, you have relieved Doctors/Hospitals of the requirement to be a full timeinsurance claims adjustor (this is a large unnecessary administrative cost).
For those too dumb to work, they get some shitty basic care. I'm thinking the Cuban model that the Ivy League keeps talking about.

Posted by: Sub-tard at May 27, 2011 02:47 PM (Q5+Og)

125 I have to agree with countrydoc. Hospitals do treat patients ethically, in my experience. My doc brother told me that one medical group/HMO would put all their cardiac patients on meds rather than authorizing bypasses because it was cheaper. Eventually, these patients showed up at an ER at a hospital half dead and would have emergency heart surgery. Many did not survive. (The HMO folded too.)

So hospitals I think are the dumping ground of other cost cutters. The same thing will happen under Obamacare.

Not to worry tho, the Third World has lots of docs willing to come to America and take care of us at discount prices, I'm sure! http://tinyurl.com/3k8gja


Posted by: PJ at May 27, 2011 02:48 PM (tybhV)

126 All of this doesn't really fucking matter, because
at some point, there will have to be a single-payer scheme to reduce
costs, whether the knuckleheads like it or not.

Ace, who is a
belligerent tool, used to think that there was indeed something wrong
with the present system of healthcare, but retreated from the rational
view because hotair told him.


Posted by: Dr. Benway at May 27, 2011 02:35 PM (UNYHV)
I didn't see the news where George Soros lost that much money that he has to scrape below the bottom of the barrel to find troll "talent."

Posted by: stuiec at May 27, 2011 02:48 PM (HMdeP)

127 #106

Name of the game in the ER is "treat 'em and street 'em".

Its fix whatever is about to kill them, or refer them immediately to someone who will, and then get them the f out of the ER asap.

If you come into the EMERGENCY department with some toenail infection, yeah. . .you'll get treated. . .after your cozy 2-4 hour wait. The ER doc will give you a prescription (which is up to you to fill on your own dime) and a referral to an outpatient physician for a followup appt (which you'll have to schedule and pay for).

If you want to try and use an ER for primary care. . .well, you can try, but don't be expecting vaccinations, pap-smears, endoscopies, hand-holding or much else in the way of non-critical care.

Plenty of times ER docs don't follow up on lab results from tests they've ordered on pts, because the pts are gone by then.

This isn't the fault of the hospitals or treating physicians, the fact is, the ward is called the EMERGENCY room for a reason.

Posted by: looking closely at May 27, 2011 02:50 PM (6Q9g2)

128 I didn't see the news where George Soros lost that much money that he has to scrape below the bottom of the barrel to find troll "talent."
Ergie isn't smart enough to get on the Soros payroll.

Posted by: Mallamutt, RINO President for Life at May 27, 2011 02:52 PM (OWjjx)

129 I'm not advocating a draconian restriction here but we need some kind of
reform. A big part of the problem is that providers have to cover their
ass so much that costs skyrocket on every case.

I'm not saying reforming patients rights from what we have now is a bad idea. I'm noting every single payer system on Earth does it to control costs. It is part of how something as bloated and bureaucratic as a government run healthcare system can cost somewhat less.


Posted by: HGEH MikeTheMoose at May 27, 2011 02:52 PM (0q2P7)

130 >>Dr. Benway there already is a single payer and has been ever since the Congress mandated medical treatment to all comers. This mandate has caused rediculous results in risk and return decisions by the insured.

Bingo, bango, bongo.

This is one reason I don't get as twisted about the dreaded mandate argument. We've had a mandate for decades we just call it taxes.

Spend any time in and around a big city hospital and watch where your mandated tax dollars go.

Posted by: JackStraw at May 27, 2011 02:54 PM (x+EIF)

131
I have been pounding this into my mother.

Hey, what a coincidence!

Posted by: Ted Kennedy's Gristle Encased Head at May 27, 2011 02:55 PM (+lsX1)

132 erg clings to his fantasies of a single-payer wonderland, because the semi-socialist system we have now is so, so broken.

But ergie doesn't want to admit that an actual free-market system is better than either 50% or 100% socialism.

'Cause erg is a teat-baby.

Posted by: nickless at May 27, 2011 02:57 PM (OeeQo)

133 Well, I think there's a point when you've made enough money.
Gee, thanks. Nice of you to tell me that I've "made enough". I'm sure the bank will be pleased when I tell them I'm not making any more school loan payments. After all, I've paid them enough.

And how about you? When have you "made enough"? Not sure? Send me you paystubs and I will be glad to make an evaluation.

Posted by: countrydoc at May 27, 2011 02:57 PM (XweGx)

134 Argument #1: "ObamaCare has put Medicare on an even steeper path to failure than it was on before. Republicans know that without changes from the post-ObamaCare status quo, Medicare will cease to exist. We challenge the Democrats: either show us how Medicare survives without any changes or show us what changes you propose we make. Anyone who supports doing nothing is a supporter of bankrupting Medicare."
Argument #2: "ObamaCare robs Medicare of a half-trillion dollars and sets up a 15-member 'death panel' to ration the care you are allowed to get. Republicans want you, not unelected bureaucrats, to control your own health care choices."
Not bad, but #1 is still too long compared to the Dems pleas of "Republicans want to end Medicare as we know it" and "The Ryan plan will leave health care decisions in the hands of the insurance corporations".
For #2 I'd leave out the 'death panel' thing- otherwise the media story becomes "Republicans repeat 'death panel' falsehood".
We're not talking about preaching to the choir; we need to convince Seniors that the Dems 'plan' consists of letting it whither on the vine.
The Dems don't really have a 'plan' to save Medicare, but in effect doing nothing is a plan. Maybe something like "Obama and the Democrats have a plan for Medicare- automatic benefit cuts and healthcare rationing"

Posted by: Hollowpoint at May 27, 2011 02:59 PM (SY2Kh)

135 Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at May 27, 2011 02:36 PM (AZGON)

Crap!! Didn't see the signature line. I'm very sorry. I forgot to take my smart pills today, I missed my nap, the sun was in my eyes, I'm naturally an idiot. Feel free to pick one.

Posted by: countrydoc at May 27, 2011 03:00 PM (XweGx)

136 Gee, thanks. Nice of you to tell me that I've "made enough". I'm sure the bank will be pleased when I tell them I'm not making any more school loan payments. After all, I've paid them enough.And how about you? When have you "made enough"? Not sure? Send me you paystubs and I will be glad to make an evaluation.
You do understand that was an Obama sock-puppet?

Posted by: Curmudgeon at May 27, 2011 03:00 PM (ujg0T)

137 #135

I think you missed the tongue in the cheek.

It was President Obama who said that there's a point when people have made enough money (ie implying that after that point, he has every right to take it from them using the full force of the Federal gov't).


Posted by: looking closely at May 27, 2011 03:00 PM (PwGfd)

138 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 27, 2011 02:38 PM (8y9MW)

No, at some point I'm driven out of business and have to close.

Posted by: countrydoc at May 27, 2011 03:02 PM (XweGx)

139 Heh, countrydoc reeled in by a sock. Tis ok, it happens to the best of em. I for one appreciate your insight into this issue, keep it up!

Posted by: Jay in Ames at May 27, 2011 03:02 PM (UEEex)

140 Why is humanity so fucking stupid? If people didn't suck so much, we could have President Paul Ryan. Which we won't, because people are too fucking stupid and God doesn't want us to have nice things because of it.

*cries*

Mencken was not thinking of the AOSHQ when he said, "On some great and glorious day the
plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the
White House will be adorned by a downright moron."

*cries more*

Posted by: Beth at May 27, 2011 03:02 PM (5NfIh)

141 countrydoc at May 27, 2011 02:57 PM (XweGx)
Hey, before you get all up in a wad, this guy was just goofin' on you. That's what Obama said to Joe the Plummer.
He's not serious, he's just trying to be snarky/funny.
Now get back to your deliberately cuttin' off of foots and rippin' out tonsills that don't need to be removed as part of your job for Big Hospital / Big Pharma...

Posted by: ed at May 27, 2011 03:03 PM (Y2WVW)

142 Crap!! Didn't see the signature line. I'm very sorry. I forgot to take my smart pills today, I missed my nap, the sun was in my eyes, I'm naturally an idiot. Feel free to pick one.
No problem, and thank you for your insights.
That said, how can Obamunistcare lead to anything but more hurrying of indigent patients out the door, often just with painkillers and other palliatives.
You will have to, just to break even, that will be life.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at May 27, 2011 03:03 PM (ujg0T)

143 Posted by: countrydoc at May 27, 2011 03:02 PM (XweGx)

Yeah. And THAT's where we're headed, however noble doctors in general may be.

Another good question is "How inexpensive will health care be when there aren't any doctors in business anymore?"

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 27, 2011 03:03 PM (8y9MW)

144 >>Crap!! Didn't see the signature line. I'm very sorry. I forgot to take my smart pills today, I missed my nap, the sun was in my eyes, I'm naturally an idiot. Feel free to pick one.

You're not doing surgery today, are you?

Posted by: JackStraw at May 27, 2011 03:04 PM (x+EIF)

145 Why is humanity so fucking stupid?
Suddenly, I am reminded of the Kim Jong-Il puppet singing "I'm so ronery..."

Posted by: Curmudgeon at May 27, 2011 03:05 PM (ujg0T)

146 No, but he IS the friend of your mother's husband.
You know, the guy who does your stool work...

Posted by: ed at May 27, 2011 03:07 PM (Y2WVW)

147 Bingo, bango, bongo. This is one reason I don't get as twisted about the dreaded mandate argument. We've had a mandate for decades we just call it taxes. Spend any time in and around a big city hospital and watch where your mandated tax dollars go.

The only way to fix it, is to get Government out of med business and into the wealth creation, saving and personal responsibilitybusiness. Shortcut, make owning your own health insurance profitable to you and your family. Do that and the remaining mouth breathers become managable financially. As with all collectivists, the lowest common denominator is their design model. Because of this habit of designing down, they encourage the worst behavior in all. Change the dynamic, design up,and reward folks for doing well by themselves and their family. I am real sorry Obama's core support can't get a job, don't get and stay married, don't honor and invest in their childrenand spend their earnings on a quick high. I do not, however, want to make it easy for others to fall into this lifestyle. I want to make it a real bitch to be a wastrel. If anyone needs a Death Panel it would be those that skated on others dimes. Either you believe insurance can function properly or you think insurance is another name for socialism. Two distinct things.

Posted by: Sub-tard at May 27, 2011 03:07 PM (Q5+Og)

148 Why is humanity so fucking stupid? If people didn't suck so much, we could have President Paul Ryan. Which we won't, because people are too fucking stupid and God doesn't want us to have nice things because of it.
Know how many Presidents have been elected from the House without experience as a governor, military officer or Senator?
One. His name was Abraham Lincoln.
Yes, I know- Obama was inexperienced as a Senate freshman. However, he wasn't running against an incumbent, but just another Senator.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at May 27, 2011 03:10 PM (SY2Kh)

149 >>>Another good question is "How inexpensive will health care be when there aren't any doctors in business anymore?"

That's not going to happen. There will always be doctors in business.

The problem is, if you effectively turn being a doctor into another bureaucratic low paid gov't job, (as it is virtually everywhere they have gov't run healthcare), you're going to discourage top level people from pursuing careers in medicine.

Why would someone at the top of their college class want to go into debt to the tune of $250k and spend 7-12 years of their youth (and peak reproductive time for women) slaving in medical school and residency for 70+ hours a week, only to end up with less autonomy than a plumber and lower pay too?

In other words, while you'll have the same number of doctors working for less money, they're probably going to be, on average, of lower caliber than before.

Its just another reduction in healthcare quality.

Posted by: looking closely at May 27, 2011 03:15 PM (6Q9g2)

150 Shortcut, make owning your own health insurance profitable to you and your family.

Or just admit that social engineering of any stripe is inappropriate.

If the government would get it's stinking nose out of it, most people would see that having health insurance is a good idea all on their own without any help from anybody. And everyone else could learn the hard way.

I'm sorry, but it is not incumbent on me to protect you from your own folly.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 27, 2011 03:16 PM (8y9MW)

151 Posted by: looking closely at May 27, 2011 03:15 PM (6Q9g2)

Not under the current setup. To be a doctor, you do have to be certified, by the state, in whatever field you practice. One of the requirements of that is an MD degree in whatever. Until/unless there are virtually no applicants, that will always run up six figure student loans- which doctors would not be able to repay.

So, if you force doctors not to be able to repay their costs- let alone make a profit- you'll end up with no more doctors. Or, at least, with so few of such low quality that there might as well be no more doctors. Certainly going to the doctor will be about as safe as doing the same thing 150 years ago, or so.

Now, eventually, the law of supply and demand says that medical schools will be forced to shut down or reduce their tuition to what people are willing to pay, but with that reduced tuition will come reduced quality of education- which kind of puts us in a catch-22.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at May 27, 2011 03:22 PM (8y9MW)

152 Oh, and erg? Fuck your 'subsidy' shit. You know who's getting subsidized? Through cost shifting, and thanks to gummint under-reimbursing, Medicare patients are getting 'subsidized' on the back of the people who are actually paying for their own.

Posted by: nickless at May 27, 2011 03:24 PM (OeeQo)

153 This, to Zero: "Fuck" "you" and your "Affordable" "Care" Act.

Posted by: Lovin' My Scare Quotes at May 27, 2011 03:36 PM (4sQwu)

154 Well, I think there's a point when you've made enough money

Is there? Kewl! Now tell me how much YOU make so I can decide how much I should get. Every time some jerk like you says that, I wonder if we're going to re-elect Jug Ears.

Why bother working hard if your income is going to be capped? It's really amazing how you trolls think. Why not spew your nonsense over at the Daily Kos? At Firedoglake? Shit in your own pool, asshole. Take it to Andrew Sullivan. Ace doesn't give prizes for stupid. Lefty talking points don't get read here. Killing brain cells by inhaling glue isn't a requirement for commenting.

I'm sorry to go off like this. Normally, I just fool around and troll around a bit myself. Going ballistic isn't my style. The last thing I want to do is get all serious at this blog. Or engage in a college BS session. Ace of Spades isn't meant for that. Still, I have my limits.

Oh, and one more thing. Can you you at least spell out your theory instead of spewing brainless one-liners? Knowing what you're trying to say would be helpful. Maybe you have some intelligent theory about wealth redistribution. Or social justice. Run your mouth off is you like. Or just STFU. Not that I'll care either way.

Posted by: Average Joe at May 27, 2011 03:40 PM (bN5ZU)

155 "And bear in mind, hospitals are supposed to treat everyone, but in fact they do hurry indigent patients out the door. Often just with painkillers and other palliatives. They have to; this is life"

No, we don't. At my hospital everyone gets treated the same for the most part. If you need to come in, you do. If you need to stay 3 days, you do. Patients don't get pushed out the door if they are poor. What happens is that for a $150 exam with labs, the "State" pays $71. So at the end of the year they try and find money to keep us from going under. Now I expect you will say, "It is the same thing." but it is not. If an illegal alien comes in we do not tell him to fuck off. If Ace comes in an alcoholic coma and injured and we cannot find any ID or insurance we treat him and worry abut the consequences later. WTF is wrong with you? Do you insult your Mama with that mouth?

Posted by: daybrother at May 27, 2011 03:44 PM (+aMaK)

156
Posted by: Hollowpoint at May 27, 2011 03:10 PM (SY2Kh)
Hollowpoint, you're preaching to the choir. I know, I know. And no, you won't hear me say "but Obama was only..." because I don't let people say that stupid shit about other people either.I'm not superstitious so I dismiss some measure of the "only one" (who wasn't a Governor, etc.) argument, but I'm all too aware of it and agree with it in many if not most cases.But I can still cry about it, because I really do think for once that Ryan could be the exception. The One! (Okay not that.)

Posted by: Beth at May 27, 2011 03:50 PM (5NfIh)

157 Holy shit I hate how copypasta breaks up the formatting.

Posted by: Beth at May 27, 2011 03:50 PM (5NfIh)

158 Dr Ben-wa's got nuthin'.

Posted by: toby928™ at May 27, 2011 03:54 PM (GTbGH)

159

Speed, quality, price. Pick any two.

It's still a truism.

Posted by: toby928™ at May 27, 2011 04:07 PM (GTbGH)

160
How can you expect me to use facts to back up my taunts when I'm busy kegeling? You health insurance whores.

Posted by: Dr. Benwa Balls at May 27, 2011 05:06 PM (qwK3S)

161 "And they're suppressing the fact that the current "plan" for Medicare is for it to go bankrupt in 8 years ..."
Point 1: Ok, so by your own admission Acewe have 7 years before there's a problem. Why does this have to be fixed right now? Before Republicans control the Senate and White House? Why is this vote killer even on our agenda? Why are we discussing it when even REPUBLICANS do not support it unanimously.
Point 2: Let Medicare go bankrupt. The government shouldn't be in the health care business and Republicans WANT smaller government. Right? If not, we should let it go bankrupt anyway to create the political will necessary to fix it. There must be a crisis before the political will sufficient to make major changes will be generated.
Point 3: Ace, you're not really whining that the media isn't spreading the Republican message? Really? You think they're going to do that? Ever? You need to get your political strategy aligned with the basic facts of political life in the United States. And one of those facts is that if Republicans try to reform Medicare spending the media will cast this as "draconian cuts affecting senior voters." This has ONE EFFECT: Increasing turnout for Democrats.
So if your goal is to help Democrats ... congratulations. It's working.

Posted by: someguy at May 27, 2011 05:52 PM (iIQ0a)

162
Short of massive boycotts of the MFM, how do we effectively counter them and make sure the truth gets out? These anti-Americans need to go down, and hard. But how? Posted by: BackwardsBoy at May 27, 2011 02:14 PM (d0Tfm)
That's just the beginning, but, yes, boycott the MBM. Also, interfere with them when they appear in public, call them what they are, liars, to their faces. Shun them socially. Overwhelm their ombudsmen with simple, factual complaints (they will always give you plenty of opportunities).Contact their advertisers with specific complaints and thus reasons why you will not patronize them for supporting the deception.The MBM is owned lock, stock barrel by the far left's propaganda machines. People need to know that, and that the public is being lied to on a daily basis, in furtherance of an agenda that will harm the people.I regret not doing more, but pointing out the lies and dissing their sorry asses is a start.

Posted by: Merovign, Dark Lord of the Sith at May 27, 2011 05:56 PM (bxiXv)

163 #156: uh, that was a sockpuppet.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at May 27, 2011 06:15 PM (ujg0T)

164 Man the lifeboats! Illegal aliens and unemployed college graduates first!

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