Poetry for Cowboys: Left's Latest Meme Is That There Is No Crisis in State Pensions!

Veronique De Rugy explains why this is bunk. Here's just one of her reasons:

the fact that states’ pension obligations are a small share of their budgets today is a relatively meaningless point, given the explosion in spending that’s coming now that bureaucratic baby boomers are starting to retire. As I note in my recent Reason column “The State Pension Time Bomb,” according to Joshua Rauh, professor of finance at Northwestern University, some states’ pension funds are scheduled to run out as soon as 2017. The below chart shows the ten states scheduled to run out of cash first:

[chart omitted; but Oklahoma runs out in 2017, and Indiana runs out in 2020 -- we are not talking about a distant cyberpunk future here]

Once the pension plans run out of money, the payments will have to come out of general funds, meaning taxpayers’ pockets. What does that mean concretely? In her testimony before Congress last month, Norcross explained:

By 2018 Illinois will run out of plan assets which will require that the state begin contributing $11 billion annually from revenues between 2019 and 2023. Currently, the state contributes $3.5 billion annually, and has often bonded its contributions. Using less generous assumptions, this scenario is much worse. Indeed, as Dr. Rauh notes this will present a “catastrophic shock” to Illinois’ current revenue needs.

The situation is not much better in New Jersey. Dr. Rauh estimates New Jersey will require $10 billion annually out of its revenues to pay for pension benefits it has already made beginning in 2020, which represents one-third of the state’s current budget. Other plans have a longer time horizon but face even more difficult scenarios. In 2031, Ohio will require 55 percent of its projected revenues, or roughly $13.8 billion annually to pay for existing liabilities.

Fifty-five percent? That’s quite different from the rosy 3.8 percent the McClatchy story is talking about.

I've heard similar spin from the left on Social Security -- there's no problem with Social Security, lefties say, because it's "only" going to be underfunded over the next fifteen years by (say) $2 trillion dollars. No problem, they conclude -- that just means we'll raise taxes $2 trillion dollars. What's the big fuss?

This is how they always treat these problems -- there is no crisis with the amount of money flowing out because, hey, no big deal to increase the amount of money flowing in.

Therefore, no crisis. Just expect to see taxes climb $2 trillion for this and $3 trillion for that and $10 trillion in state taxes and federal taxes used to fund states and etc.

What if we'd like to keep government spending, as a share of the economy, at the 20% rate which has proven to be effective in generating growth and innovation?

Well, no, sorry, that's not on the table. There is no crisis in any of this, but oh, by the way, middle-class Americans should be ready to start forking over 60% of their wages to pay for hyperbolically-accelerating government payouts.

Monty sent this to me, and has more thoughts on the specific claim that there is "no crisis" in state pension plans:

The meme has been running around that the pension mess in the states is really just a wingnut fiction cooked up by Jesusland agitators. In the linked piece, Veronique de Rugy skewers that fallacy by pointing out the obvious problem -- they're using aggregate, not specific numbers [that is, they are taking all states and lumping them together instead of looking at the states specifically in crisis -- ace]. It's like saying that I have five dollars but my neighbor has two million dollars, so on average, we're both millionaires.

This problem predates the 2008 crash by decades. That's why New York
now has a Pension Tier V instead of a Pension Tier I.

That while "discount rate/expected rate of return on investment" is another load of bullshit the state actuaries keep shoveling. They're expecting returns in the 7.5-8% range, when the "risk free" rate is really more around 4% (and even a higher-risk porfolio would be lucky to get 6% in the environment we're looking at for the next decade or so). [He means here that the actual situation is far worse even than states project, and what they project is horrifying enough, because their pension funding is invested and projected to be earning unlikely-to-ridiculous rates of return. Even assuming these low-risk investments start bringing in absurd 8% rates of return, we're still in trouble; but take the more likely situation where they bring in only 3.5%, and that means we're on the hook for all those additional trillions that investment has failed to bring to the table. -- ace.]

And griping that pension debt is only 3% of total state spending misstates the case, because it doesn't take into account that these pension funds are almost broke. (In many states, like Illinois, this is functionally already true). So any shortfall has to either be made up out of general funds, new taxation, or borrowing. In any of those scenarios, the percentage of money diverted to pension funds is money that cannot be used for anything else -- even if spending doesn't increase (ha!), the *proportion* of existing funds going to cover pensions rises. This means cuts in other services.

I would just add that if we only had the Social Security problem, or the Medicare problem, or the Medicaid problem, or the pension problem, we could probably just borrow the money and put our problem on future generations. I mean, that wouldn't be responsible, but it could be done.

But since we have all of these problems coming simultaneously, even that is out the window. Sure, I can lock up $2 trillion in new government debt to take care of Social Security, but I can't lock up another $10 trillion for Medicare -- there is a limit as to how much someone will lend you, after all. If it appears that you have no way to pay this money back (and it does appear that way), your credit limit gets cut, doesn't it?

Sure, if we had one multi-trillion dollar problem we could just borrow and put it off on the next generation. But no one's going to extend to us tens upon tens of trillions in credit when our only method of paying debt seems to be taking out new loans to pay the old debt.

And this way of looking at it -- piece by piece instead of at the whole picture -- also allows people to say stupid things like "No big whoop, we'll just increase taxes by 2 trillion for Social Security." Okay, 2 trillion dollars in raised taxes, and now, yes, with so much more of our money being taken by the government, Social Security is fixed.

Okay-- and now what do you do about Medicaid, Medicare, and pensions? Are we to just rack up a another dozen or so trillion in new taxes to handle those problems?

Of course that is the liberals' plan -- that has always been their plan.

It's about time we begin forcing them to say so, and confess that the future they wish to win consists of the middle-class paying 60% of their hard-won wages to pay for further growth of the behemoth super-state.

That's what Obama's doing -- he is doing Reagan in reverse. Whereas Reagan "starved the beast" of income to force it to slim down, Obama is force-feeding and fattening his pet the government in order to make it not merely politically acceptable to jack up tax rates to Italy-in-the-1970s levels, but absolutely required if we are to avoid default and bankruptcy and depression.

It's high time the American people were presented this plan forthrightly and had their say on it.

By the way, Monty will have more on this later, he says.

Posted by: Ace at 03:50 PM



Comments

1
Mend It -- Don't End It II?

Posted by: Alternate Universe Soothsayer at March 09, 2011 03:55 PM (uFokq)

2 Condensed version

We're Boned

Posted by: Buzzsaw at March 09, 2011 03:55 PM (tf9Ne)

3 Boned.

Posted by: that guy that always thinks we're boned at March 09, 2011 03:55 PM (GTbGH)

4 Veronique de Rugy, bunk...what are these deep feelings you have for NRO contributors, Ace?

Posted by: Big Fat Freudian at March 09, 2011 03:56 PM (gSGAu)

5
If the Republicans were serious, those in Congress and all the Republican governors would move to abolish state/federal pensions for all elected officials.


Posted by: Alternate Universe Soothsayer at March 09, 2011 03:56 PM (uFokq)

6 Doom!

I would love for people to hear this- but they won't. It's going to take the whole house of cards crashing before the 52% realize that the Government can't solve all our problems, and shouldn't even try.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 03:58 PM (8y9MW)

7 You're all missing the essential problem: the left won't be happy until we're their slaves.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at March 09, 2011 03:58 PM (ZJ/un)

8 First, a national sales tax, to fix SS. Then a VAT, to fix medicare. Then increased income taxes, to fix, oh, whatever crisis there is to fix. Then the middle class collapses. Mission accomplished!

Posted by: joncelli at March 09, 2011 03:59 PM (RD7QR)

9 In the end, there will only be Kratos.

Posted by: Gaff at March 09, 2011 04:00 PM (xX2jZ)

10 O/T: let's add to the agita.

Posted by: curious at March 09, 2011 04:00 PM (k1rwm)

11 Or Kratos discussing chaos. It's ultimately all the same.

Posted by: joncelli at March 09, 2011 04:00 PM (RD7QR)

12 Currently, the state contributes $3.5 billion annually, and has often bonded its contributions.

In other words: they issue debt to cover current obligations. (A position that Social Security is also in as of this year.) As anyone who's ever used one credit card to pay off another can tell you, this sort of thing can't go on for very long.

Posted by: Monty at March 09, 2011 04:01 PM (4Pleu)

13



My thought for the day

Look the two cultures are not compatible. Example you can not have a
welfare state and low taxes they just cant co exist. Either both sides
quickly begin pushing for some hardcore federalism or I don’t see how
this wont turn into another civil war.

Posted by: shiggz at March 09, 2011 04:02 PM (mLAWK)

14 Why are you such a stupid cunt when it comes to understanding Social Security? The program is paid for by existing workers, and the revenues are entrusted in a fund (mostly OASI).

It's like you're purposefully disingenuous. Or, you're just a stupid cunt. I don't know.

Posted by: some murdered nuns in el salvador at March 09, 2011 04:02 PM (JaL+E)

15 When the pension crunch begins in earnest, perhaps the states should start off by appropriating the university endowments...after all, only academica could have invented such bizarre economic models while simultaneously mal-educating generations of graduates.

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at March 09, 2011 04:03 PM (gSGAu)

16 I have seen the future... and it's solid bone, from asshole to beak.

Posted by: Zed, exterminator for Zardoz at March 09, 2011 04:03 PM (AZGON)

17 Also, I think solvent states should start passing legislation announcing to creditors that all new federal debt after a certain date they will refuse responsibility for repayment.

I first suggested this when the debt was 12trillion.

Posted by: shiggz at March 09, 2011 04:03 PM (mLAWK)

18 If it appears that you have no way to pay this money back (and it does appear that way), your credit limit gets cut, doesn't it?

Doubtful. What is highly likely is that your credit limit will be frozen. It's more along the lines of "Yeah, we were dummies to let you get to us for this much but at least this is the maximum damage we will take".

Now if you meant your credit rating gets cut, yep that seems inevitable. Which means higher interest payments to attract investors, which means higher deficits ad nauseum.

Posted by: GnuBreed at March 09, 2011 04:04 PM (h0RtZ)

19 and has often bonded its contributions.

Waitwaitwait!

They're investing borrowed money? That is, they're literally gambling (no matter how safe) with money they don't actually have?

Wasn't that one of the root causes behind the 1929 crash? People putting stocks on credit?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:04 PM (8y9MW)

20 That's what Obama's doing -- he is doing Reagan in reverse. Whereas Reagan "starved the beast" of income to force it to slim down, Obama is force-feeding and fattening his pet the government

You're a hater, Ace. You make it sound like Obama is a radical. He loves this country more than you.

Posted by: Michael Medved, boot polisher and talking head at March 09, 2011 04:05 PM (AZGON)

21 hahahaha @ eggmcmuffin's buffoonery

The program is paid for by existing workers, and the revenues are entrusted in a fund...

Posted by: Alternate Universe Soothsayer at March 09, 2011 04:05 PM (uFokq)

22 I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today.

Posted by: Wimpy at March 09, 2011 04:06 PM (IVQSY)

23 Waitwaitwait!They're investing borrowed money? That is, they're literally gambling (no matter how safe) with money they don't actually have?Wasn't that one of the root causes behind the 1929 crash? People putting stocks on credit?
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:04 PM (8y9MW)
SO boned

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 09, 2011 04:06 PM (FIDMq)

24
Why is eggmcmuffin so disingenuous?

Or is eggmcuffin just plain stupid?






Posted by: Alternate Universe Soothsayer at March 09, 2011 04:06 PM (uFokq)

25 Posted by: Alternate Universe Soothsayer at March 09, 2011 04:05 PM (uFokq)

I've never been able to decide if he's evil, or just stupid.

If he actually believes what he's saying, he's stupid.
If he realizes he's lying, then he's evil.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:07 PM (8y9MW)

26
Eggmcmuffin is wrong and he doesn't even know *why* he's wrong!

Posted by: Alternate Universe Soothsayer at March 09, 2011 04:07 PM (uFokq)

27 Obam is basivcally wasting as much money as he can in order to force taaxes to be raised. Remember when he laughed and said, "hah all government spending is stimulus, what do you think stimulus is?"? Well we are going to be stimulized until we feel like the fucking chicken and after these guys get out the next politicians will have to worry about paying for the dumb shit they did.

But fuck it, its for the children. For the children in the NAMBLA way.

Posted by: Mr Pink at March 09, 2011 04:08 PM (FsqGL)

28 The stupidity has arrived on schedule. See? Social Security is in a lockbox, all kinda like paid for 'n' stuff. Trollbreath tells us so.

Yawn.

Posted by: George Orwell at March 09, 2011 04:08 PM (AZGON)

29 and the revenues are entrusted in a fund

Consisting of bonds, that have to be paid back with general revenue, which we don't have.

And erg's boned.

Posted by: toby928 at March 09, 2011 04:09 PM (GTbGH)

30 So, you're saying that the ultimate goal for Obama is to have the Orwellian state where you work for the government in some capacity and are provided food, shelter and health care........

Who's not on board with that?

Posted by: © Sponge at March 09, 2011 04:09 PM (UK9cE)

31 We have a First Amendment right to deficit spend for all eternity. It's for the children, after all.

Posted by: Jesse Jackson Jr. at March 09, 2011 04:09 PM (h0RtZ)

32 30 The stupidity has arrived on schedule. See? Social Security is in a lockbox, all kinda like paid for 'n' stuff. Trollbreath Harry tells us so. Yawn.
Posted by: George Orwell at March 09, 2011 04:08 PM (AZGON)
as if theres a difference

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 09, 2011 04:09 PM (FIDMq)

33 All is well!

Posted by: Kevin Bacon at the end of Animal House at March 09, 2011 04:10 PM (cUNcx)

34
Obama is basically wasting as much money as he can in order to force taxes to be raised.

Ex.Fucking.Zactly.

We are in a race -- Obama is trying to raid the Treasury and put us so deep in debt that we have no choice but raise taxes.




Posted by: Alternate Universe Soothsayer at March 09, 2011 04:10 PM (uFokq)

35 Democratic Party campaign slogan to cover increasing taxes, welfare, and increasing spending:

Mo Money, Mo Money, Mo Money!

Oh, and Michael Moore says the various levels of government aren't broke. So if that doesn't wipe away all you concerns about spending levels, I don't know what will. Cause he's a financial genius. How do we know he's a financial genius? Well, clearly he is financially well off enough to afford lots and lots of groceries.

Posted by: nerdygirl at March 09, 2011 04:11 PM (fhaCZ)

36 Sure, I can lock up $2 trillion in new government debt to take care of Social Security, but I can't lock up another $10 trillion for Medicare -- there is a limit as to how much someone will lend you, after all.

That's the multi-trillon dollar question. People keep lending us money. It does often seem like it will never stop. When exactly does the spigot run dry? Perhaps the central bank printing presses across the world will make sure it never does. What else can they do?

Posted by: George Orwell at March 09, 2011 04:11 PM (AZGON)

37 The Congressional Research Office estimates that the entire Social Security deficit could be eliminated immediately if somewhere between three and six constitutional amendments are passed.

Posted by: Jesse Jackson Jr. at March 09, 2011 04:11 PM (QKKT0)

38 R's better say no way in hell to more spending, I just dont see it. Its bad enough to have to keep tabs on traitor in chief and his minons doings, but also to keep any eye on the Repubs gets kind of tiring

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 09, 2011 04:11 PM (FIDMq)

39 One other thing about issuing bond-debt to cover pension obligations: they are hoping and praying that interest rates don't go up, because that will accelerate their doom. The math barely works when you're only paying bondholders 1-2% interest for their money, and you're getting 3-4% for a return on the money you just borrowed from them; but if you have to pay a 3.5-4% rate on your bonds -- holy shit, are you screwed.

Posted by: Monty at March 09, 2011 04:12 PM (4Pleu)

40 Obama- stealing more childrens futures then the Catholic church and NAMBLA combined!

B+

Posted by: shiggz at March 09, 2011 04:12 PM (mLAWK)

41
Obama is like a bank robber who runs outside with bags of money and throws the cash up in the air.

People scramble for the cash and the bank will never get it back.

Posted by: Alternate Universe Soothsayer at March 09, 2011 04:12 PM (uFokq)

42 It's like you're purposefully disingenuous. Or, you're just a stupid cunt. I don't know.

Posted by: some murdered nuns in el salvador at March 09, 2011 04:02 PM (JaL+E)


What part of intake doesn't match outflow do you not understand? Speaking of stupid cunt....

Posted by: © Sponge at March 09, 2011 04:12 PM (UK9cE)

43 Once upon a time, ace was this close in admitting that the great fiscal crisis was caused by the private healthcare insurance racket.

But that was a fleeting moment, and now he's back to mach8 knucklehead.

Posted by: some murdered nuns in el salvador at March 09, 2011 04:12 PM (JaL+E)

44 The program is paid for by existing workers, and the revenues are entrusted in a fund...

But it all goes to the syndicate. And everybody has a share. Don't you
understand? It's exactly what happens with those plum tomatoes I sell to
Colonel Cathcart.

Posted by: milo minderbinder at March 09, 2011 04:12 PM (GTbGH)

45 They're investing borrowed money? That is, they're literally gambling (no matter how safe) with money they don't actually have?
Pension obligation bonds have been around for a long time. It's an arbitrage strategy akin to taking the proceeds of a home equity loan to invest in something else. As long as your return outpaces the cost of borrowing it works pretty well. In this case, it's a double whammy up the kazoo. The investments have underperformed the cost of borrowing, resulting in the exact opposite of what was intended. Now you have an pension whose underfunded liability has grown and a pile of debt that was incurred for no public benefit - didn't even get a fucking bridge or sewer system out of the deal.

Posted by: Ted Kennedy's Gristle Encased Head at March 09, 2011 04:13 PM (+lsX1)

46 according to Joshua Rauh, professor of finance at Northwestern University,

So it's not all fucksaws and orgasms over there?

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 09, 2011 04:13 PM (EDSBe)

47 but if you have to pay a 3.5-4% rate on your bonds -- holy shit, are you screwed.

Monty, have you seen the yields on Irish and Greek ten year bonds? Nosebleed.

Posted by: George Orwell at March 09, 2011 04:13 PM (AZGON)

48
the private health insurance racket = the Democrat-controlled Congress (including Obama)?

Posted by: Alternate Universe Soothsayer at March 09, 2011 04:13 PM (uFokq)

49 erg, what universe do you live in and how many drugs do you take to get there?

Posted by: Gaff at March 09, 2011 04:13 PM (xX2jZ)

50 Whaddya mean, not a distant cyberpunk future? Blade Runner takes place in 2017. So we don't need to start worrying about public pensions until all the signs turn Chinese.

Posted by: Cerebral Paul Z. at March 09, 2011 04:14 PM (XpM53)

51 46
Once upon a time, ace was this close in admitting that the great fiscal
crisis was caused by the private healthcare insurance racket.

But
that was a fleeting moment, and now he's back to mach8 knucklehead.


Posted by: some murdered nuns in el salvador at March 09, 2011 04:12 PM
(JaL+E)
How close?

Posted by: billygoat at March 09, 2011 04:14 PM (7jCg4)

52 Looking at government spending and dept as a percentage of GPD around the world we appear to be less boned than average. So much for American exceptionalism.

Posted by: Honey badger trying to digest Justin Bieber at March 09, 2011 04:15 PM (F/4zf)

53 Remain calm. High speed trains are on the way. Remain calm. With more 1st Amendments we will recover economically. Remain calm.

Posted by: Jessie Junior at March 09, 2011 04:16 PM (Q5+Og)

54
ye olde Great Fiscal Crisis way back in two-naught-naught-nine.

Obama saved us but it was a harrowing time for many Americans...

Posted by: Alternate Universe Soothsayer at March 09, 2011 04:16 PM (uFokq)

55 There is a lot more to this story, and i hate to say it since i would hate for this to become an excuse for doing nothing.

Our current government accounting does not count a lot of things and mostly that is bad. But it also does not count expected increase in tax revenue due to inheritance tax. There is an expected windfall when the baby boomers start dying, and I think this is one reason the Right wants to eliminate the "death tax" now, since it helps to starve the beast, and I think the Left is afraid to bring this up because (a) it admits there is a problem, and (b) tell everyone their ssi may be safe, but their inheritance is up for grabs.

When everyone does those scary numbers (47 Trillion in debt!) they are leaving a lot out. Now I agree the numbers are scary, and i think relying on taxing estates is only a way to (a) insure that the very wealthy are off the hook since only they will be able to afford the shelters necessary, and (b) kicks the can down the road only making the problem worse, and (c) is another way to punish success.

fwiw

Posted by: nine coconuts at March 09, 2011 04:16 PM (DHNp4)

56 Is it time to start the burning yet?

Posted by: Trashcan Man at March 09, 2011 04:17 PM (r416o)

57 Once upon a time erg was this close to getting pussy, then the cops showed up and now he's not allowed within 500 yards of any public school or daycare center.

Posted by: Mr Pink at March 09, 2011 04:17 PM (FsqGL)

58 "The Republican Party: the big, scaly pecker stuck in the anus of the middle-class, forever"

Could be a catchy campaign slogan for 2012.

Posted by: some murdered nuns in el salvador at March 09, 2011 04:17 PM (JaL+E)

59
Once upon a time, ace was this close in admitting that the great fiscal
crisis was caused by the private healthcare insurance racket.

Posted by: some murdered nuns in el salvador at March 09, 2011 04:12 PM
(JaL+E)

Once upon a time, not long ago, people wore pajamas and lived life slow......

Posted by: Slick Rick at March 09, 2011 04:17 PM (UK9cE)

60
Back in the Great Fiscal Crisis of '09, some of us had to cut our vacations to just ten days in Spain.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Tales of the Great Fiscal Crisis at March 09, 2011 04:17 PM (uFokq)

61 Coming soon to the front page and leading story on the 6 oclock news everywhere....Charlie Sheen

Posted by: FMFM at March 09, 2011 04:17 PM (FIDMq)

62 Posted by: Ted Kennedy's Gristle Encased Head at March 09, 2011 04:13 PM (+lsX1)

Which really just makes my point that anyone knowing about this and thinking it was okay should be a) removed from office and b) thrown in jail.

You do not invest money you had to borrow. Period.

Yes, I'll say that about people who took out home equity loans to invest in the stock market. The only possible exception I would consider is starting up your own business- but you should really get a business loan (under an LLC at least) to do that.

When the assets that would be seized are my tax-dollars, that should be criminal.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:18 PM (8y9MW)

63 Millions of children went to bed hungry last night; hungry, that is, for the sweet sounds provided by the IPod Parental SubstituteTM.

It is a crime against humanity at a minimum.

Posted by: Jesse Jackson Jr. at March 09, 2011 04:19 PM (h0RtZ)

64 Since the libtards are certain there is no debt or pension crisis, I guess we can push full steam ahead with tax cuts, yes?

Good.

Posted by: George Orwell at March 09, 2011 04:19 PM (AZGON)

65 Speaking of bonds, zero hedge is reporting that PIMCO had dumped all of their government related securities. If that gets contagious we may not only get a new president in 2012 we may get a new dictator.

Posted by: robtr at March 09, 2011 04:19 PM (MtwBb)

66 The way the left operates is to say, "Why don't YOU" (nodding towardus) "help THEM" (pointing to thevictim/cause de jour). "What are you, selfish or something?Do you want babies to starve/polar beats to die/the country to go broke," etc.?.
And we're damn tired of it.

Posted by: middle cflass at March 09, 2011 04:19 PM (c66df)

67 Eh...a trillion here, a trillion there before you know it your mainlining junk bonds and derivitives likepiss through a race horse.
Nothing good can come of this.

Posted by: dananjcon at March 09, 2011 04:19 PM (pr+up)

68
The Great Fiscal Crisis was so bad we had to take swift bold action such as Cash for Clunkers and buying tens-of-millions of dollars on highway signs designed to lift the spirits of the American people.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Tales of the Great Fiscal Crisis at March 09, 2011 04:19 PM (uFokq)

69 60 Once upon a time erg was this close to getting pussy, then the cops showed up and now he's not allowed within 500 yards of any public school or daycare center.
Posted by: Mr Pink at March 09, 2011 04:17 PM (FsqGL)
Thought I was going to have to send out some muscle to 'talk' to him about territory

Posted by: Roman Polanski at March 09, 2011 04:19 PM (FIDMq)

70 "The Republican Party: the big, scaly pecker stuck in the anus of the middle-class, forever"

You mean the same party that hasn't been in charge of a budget for the last decade or so? Explain......

You CAN'T possibly be this stupid, can you?

Posted by: Slick Rick at March 09, 2011 04:19 PM (UK9cE)

71

When everyone does those scary numbers (47 Trillion in debt!) they are leaving a lot out.

World GDP in dollars: $61.96 trillion (2010 est.)

Some politicians need to be contemplating that on the Tree of Woe.

Posted by: toby928™ at March 09, 2011 04:19 PM (GTbGH)

72 If only we spend another $800 billion a year, the economy will grow and tax revenue will increase by $80 billion a year.
That $80 billion a year can be used to pay down the deficit. See? Problem solved.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at March 09, 2011 04:20 PM (SY2Kh)

73 Erg is stalwartly defending the middle class by asking it to pay 60% of its income in tax.

That is, it's the kind of stalwart defense the French were known for in 1940.

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 09, 2011 04:21 PM (EDSBe)

74 But that was a fleeting moment, and now he's back to mach8 knucklehead.
Posted by: some murdered nuns in el salvador at March 09, 2011 04:12 PM (JaL+E)
Ergie, Honey Badger just don't give a shit.

Posted by: Merovign, Bond Villain at March 09, 2011 04:21 PM (bxiXv)

75 46 Once upon a time, ace was this close in admitting that the great fiscal crisis was caused by the private healthcare insurance racket.But that was a fleeting moment, and now he's back to mach8 knucklehead.
Posted by: some murdered nuns in el salvador at March 09, 2011 04:12 PM (JaL+E)
I read a comment from this bonehead earlier and I thought that it was so unbelievably stupid that it had to be sarcasm. Now I'mstarting to believethat they really are that stupid.

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at March 09, 2011 04:21 PM (RkRxq)

76
We're not broke, and after Obama confiscates the money from the wealthy who obtained it unfairly, only then will we be able to redistribute it to the truly needy.

Note: There will be a couple of exceptions to the rule.

Posted by: Michael Moore, Famed Movie Maker at March 09, 2011 04:21 PM (ZHsNw)

77 68
Speaking of bonds, zero hedge is reporting that PIMCO had dumped all of their government related securities. If that gets contagious we may not only get a new president in 2012 we may get a new dictator.

Or maybe a new currency. Imagine Zimbabwe dollars with Sparky and Moochelle pictured bravely Winning The Future.

Posted by: Jessie Junior at March 09, 2011 04:21 PM (Q5+Og)

78 we may not only get a new president in 2012 we may get a new dictator.

Perhaps you meant "we may in 2012 see our old president turn into a new dictator."

Posted by: George Orwell at March 09, 2011 04:22 PM (AZGON)

79 damn sock....

Posted by: © Sponge at March 09, 2011 04:22 PM (UK9cE)

80 You forgot to subtract the money stashed in our 401Ks and IRA accounts from the debts - that will be confiscated next.

Posted by: Jean at March 09, 2011 04:22 PM (WkuV6)

81 The only possible exception I would consider is starting up your own business- but you should really get a business loan (under an LLC at least) to do that.Personal guaranty, please...

Posted by: Any Bank On The Planet at March 09, 2011 04:22 PM (QKKT0)

82 I'm starting to think Charlie has the right idea.

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 09, 2011 04:22 PM (EDSBe)

83 erg, why all the waivers?

Posted by: willow at March 09, 2011 04:22 PM (h+qn8)

84
Times were so tough that the president appointed a Great Fiscal Crisis Czar to oversee the Great Fiscal Crisis.


Posted by: Soothsayer's Tales of the Great Fiscal Crisis at March 09, 2011 04:23 PM (uFokq)

85 Posted by: Waterhouse at March 09, 2011 04:21 PM (EDSBe)

And the same strategy acumen they showed from 1946 - 1954.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:23 PM (8y9MW)

86 When Sean Connery comes gallopingafter me in an orange mankini, then I'll know I'm boned. Until then, it's all mangoes and papayas, my fellow Eloi!

Posted by: Big Fat Mixed Metaphors at March 09, 2011 04:23 PM (gSGAu)

87 Small business loan, ha haha ha - lol lol

Bootstrap it on a credit card, like everyone else.

Posted by: Jean at March 09, 2011 04:23 PM (WkuV6)

88 I think, honestly, cities will burn before the problem is even seriously addressed.

I don't know if the damage will ever truly be repaired, or we'll just get to a point of "sustainable bonage" and stop because fixing things is plain too hard a job for politicians and bureaucrats.

Posted by: Merovign, Bond Villain at March 09, 2011 04:23 PM (bxiXv)

89 By the way, Monty will have more on this later, he says
Yeesh...wil there be a test?? cuz I haven't evenread this post yet!
This sucks, I'm goin back to the Alcee I like panties thread, too much math here.


Posted by: dananjcon at March 09, 2011 04:24 PM (pr+up)

90 With the country's income being 1/3 provided by tax money, and in turn taxing that money as income, only to keep funding that 1/3...........That makes sense......

Posted by: © Sponge at March 09, 2011 04:24 PM (UK9cE)

91 erg, why all the waivers?
Save it. It's like trying to teach physics to a dog.

Posted by: Cicero at March 09, 2011 04:24 PM (QKKT0)

92 Also, I don't know if this is the left's "latest" meme. eggamoobymuffin's been pushing this math-challenged avoidance of reality for as long as I can remember, and we all know he's too fucking stupid to do anything but regurgitate talking points from the appropriate Commissariat.

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 09, 2011 04:24 PM (EDSBe)

93 Looking forward to the 100% tax rate on those still working to pay for retirees.

But at least they can look forward to their gummint 'trust fund.'

Posted by: nickless at March 09, 2011 04:25 PM (MMC8r)

94 Can we convert our dollars into quatloos? What currency do the Borg use?

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at March 09, 2011 04:25 PM (gSGAu)

95 Save it. It's like trying to teach physics to a dog.

Posted by: Cicero at March 09, 2011 04:24 PM (QKKT0)

My dogs will get physics a long, long time before erg gets reality.

Posted by: joncelli at March 09, 2011 04:25 PM (RD7QR)

96 Could be a catchy campaign slogan for 2012.
Posted by: some murdered nuns in el salvador

Could be, could be. As a refutation of a fiscal policy debate, it sucks worse than your normal output. But such details are lost on you anyway.

Posted by: Amber at March 09, 2011 04:25 PM (R2fpr)

97 This is part of the "perfect storm" that Beck has been talking about for years. But hey, he's crazy, right?

Posted by: Soona at March 09, 2011 04:26 PM (r416o)

98 Posted by: Any Bank On The Planet at March 09, 2011 04:22 PM (QKKT0)

Thus the business loan under an LLC. At least they can seize all those assets. As long as you show that you've done your homework (and you don't want some absurd amount of money) a lot of banks will authorize an initial loan.

Don't expect a second one without showing profitability. Or collateral.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:26 PM (8y9MW)

99 In the end, it all works out.

Posted by: mayan calendar at March 09, 2011 04:26 PM (GTbGH)

100
$500B budget deficit = great fiscal crisis

$1.5T budget deficit = boom time!

Posted by: Soothsayer's Tales of the Great Fiscal Crisis at March 09, 2011 04:27 PM (uFokq)

101 Posted by: Jean at March 09, 2011 04:23 PM (WkuV6)

Don't have any.

Of course, I'm also not (yet) looking into going into business for myself.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:27 PM (8y9MW)

102
Don't expect a second one without showing profitability. Or collateral.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:26 PM (8y9MW)


Unless you're a minority.......


I denounce myself.

Posted by: © Sponge at March 09, 2011 04:28 PM (UK9cE)

103 Once upon a time, ace was this close in admitting that the great fiscal
crisis was caused by the private healthcare insurance racket.

Erg, I can give you five ways government interference has inflated medical costs. Including helping those evil insurance people maintain a stranglehold on the market.

Posted by: nickless at March 09, 2011 04:28 PM (MMC8r)

104
Now is the time in America when children and grand children hope that mawmaw and pawpaw die quickly so they can divvy up the spoils.

Surprise you little bastards......I'm gonna spend it on hookers and coke.

Love, Grandpa

Posted by: Fish the Impaler at March 09, 2011 04:29 PM (ZHsNw)

105 Y cant we jis cut a little foreign aid and defense?

What's up with Charlie Sheen?

Wait! The guy from the polling is on the phone and wants to ask me some more stupid questions.

Posted by: Usin-my-SS-checks-to-buy-MMJ at March 09, 2011 04:29 PM (4sQwu)

106 So basically I will have to move to China so my kid doesn't grow up in debt slavery?

Posted by: Mr Pink at March 09, 2011 04:29 PM (FsqGL)

107 When does the lending spigot go dry? Like all financial issues that are based off peoples "perceptions":

-after it should have
-too late to reverse it
-all at once
(practically overnight)


Government lending will go from safe to fire sale probably within a matter of weeks. At that point the government will have to raise interest rates double what reality would require. Right now the prime rate should probably be 5-10%... so at that point expect 15-20% prime rates just to get foreign lenders to even take a chance.

These people are like kids playing with explosives. Big picture I don't mind that this new America of gay marriage/parasites/prissy obnoxious children collapses.. We will rebuild it afterward and do it right.

Posted by: shiggz at March 09, 2011 04:29 PM (mLAWK)

108 erg, why all the waivers?
Save it. It's like trying to teach physics to a dog.
Posted by: Cicero
My Black Lab (mayhe rest in peace) could judge the landing spot of a tennis ball. And he could also tell if that ball was going to strike the back fence and bounce back. Thus,I would watch him charge, then slow, halt and position himself away from the fence so as to play the ball off of the wall.

If he could have wielded a bat, the Mets could have used him in center field. My dog has a better grasp of physics than Erg has of fiscal policy, and the dog has been dead for three years.

Posted by: Blue Hen at March 09, 2011 04:30 PM (R2fpr)

109 but if you have to pay a 3.5-4% rate on your bonds -- holy shit, are you screwed.

A quick search shows CA, NJ PA pension obligation debt trading in the secondary market is priced to yield 6% - 8.25%, depending on maturity. It was certainly lower when newly issued, but I doubt much was issued at less than 4%. Although this is muni debt, the interest is taxable, making it more expensive for the borrower.

Posted by: Ted Kennedy's Gristle Encased Head at March 09, 2011 04:30 PM (+lsX1)

110
hey, you know who's running the non-profit health insurance racket?

Union bosses and Democrat-donors, that's who. Paying themselves BIG $$ to sit on the board and run the company.

Posted by: Soothsayer's Tales of the Great Fiscal Crisis at March 09, 2011 04:30 PM (uFokq)

111 think, honestly, cities will burn before the problem is even seriously addressed.

It won't come to that, not in the Nation Below Canada. It will require something serious, though, like a hyperinflation event or a run on banks. A run on banks could happen here. Perhaps some state pension fund will find a way to go "bankrupt." Once checks start bouncing or the cash you keep on hand is worth half of what it was after six months, things will get interesting.

On the other hand we could be in for a long lost couple of decades like Japan. However, Japan still looks very prosperous. Few people could call Japan a failed, impoverished country.

Seems very hard to espy the shape of any denoument to this explosion in debt and deficit.

Posted by: George Orwell at March 09, 2011 04:30 PM (AZGON)

112 It's about time we begin forcing them to say so, and confess that the
future they wish to win consists of the middle-class paying 60% of their
hard-won wages to pay for further growth of the behemoth super-state.
Liberals are that spoiled brat kid you knew when you were growing up who got a hefty allowance each week from his doting parents and proceeded to blow it all in a day or two. The little fuck just knew he could cajole more out of them to make it through the rest of the week. The concept of responsibility is incomprehensible until the shit belongs to you.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at March 09, 2011 04:32 PM (vbh31)

113 Posted by: Fish the Impaler at March 09, 2011 04:29 PM (ZHsNw)

Here's a question: we know that the "Average Life Expectancy" in the US is 78 (or something like that). But we also know that includes any baby born alive who dies shortly thereafter (unlike most of Europe's accounting of the matter), and various other non-natural deaths (murder, suicide, vehicular accident, etc.)

If you weeded all of that out and defined your population P as: All persons living past the age of 1 who died of disease or other natural cause. What would the Average life expectancy be, then? Anybody know?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:32 PM (8y9MW)

114 Myths and realities about state pension funding.

Posted by: Monty at March 09, 2011 04:33 PM (4Pleu)

115 What the left wants to do is hold off on that 70% middle class rate until 40 percent of the American people depend on a government check for income. Only 5 more percent to go!

Posted by: Mr Pink at March 09, 2011 04:33 PM (FsqGL)

116 What would the Average life expectancy be, then?
Penury

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at March 09, 2011 04:34 PM (gSGAu)

117 Of course, I'm also not (yet) looking into going into business for myself.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:27 PM (8y9MW)
I recommend being forward thinking in this down economy.
Besides my moonshining ambitions, I may invest $600 in Rosetta Stone to learn Japanese so I can perfect the science of modern whaling (they are the best), should we have scheduled blackouts in the future.

Posted by: ErikW at March 09, 2011 04:36 PM (AOr5V)

118 Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at March 09, 2011 04:34 PM (gSGAu)

See, people keep talking about how they're "only expected" to receive X years of Social Security, or Medicare, or whatever, and I'd like to know the real number. Is it 80? 85? 90?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:36 PM (8y9MW)

119 Perhaps the central bank printing presses across the world will make sure it never does. What else can they do?
Repossess. It'll be great TV.
There is no crisis in any of this, but oh, by the way, middle-class Americans should be ready to start forking over 60% of their wages to pay for hyperbolically-accelerating government payouts.
If Hauser's Law is right, and it seems to be (for some value under 40% of any nation's GDP), 60% can't be collected. At some percentage—which we're probably already past, hence the massive debt/deficit runup that's been happening—revenue flattens.
So if J. Average Taxpayer does wind up paying 60%, because he can't lobby his way out of it, his burden is offset in aggregate by others' paying less, lawfully (like "Wall Street") and otherwise (like "Wall Street"'s nannies and gardeners).
And J. Average Taxpayer's eventually going to notice that, and he'll make some great TV of his own.
Boned.

Posted by: oblig. at March 09, 2011 04:36 PM (xvZW9)

120 Although this is muni debt, the interest is taxable, making it more expensive for the borrower.

Yep. The real rate of return doesn't reflect the coupon on the bond -- the state just takes back a certain percentage of the vig they just paid you for borrowing your money.

Posted by: Monty at March 09, 2011 04:36 PM (4Pleu)

121 Don't sweat it. I'll be by in 2036 to clear the slate anyway. Maybe the lemurs will prove smarter...

Posted by: 99942 Apophis at March 09, 2011 04:37 PM (GBXon)

122 The future of millions of honest people and that of their offspring is nothing more than a fucking social experiment to these parasitic pieces of shit.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at March 09, 2011 04:37 PM (vbh31)

123 Just to think, you fuckers sent me to prison for this same shit.

Hypocrites.

Posted by: Bernie Madoff at March 09, 2011 04:37 PM (h0RtZ)

124 Dammit, I'm not an actuary! I'm a cowboy poet!

Posted by: Big Fat Meanie at March 09, 2011 04:38 PM (gSGAu)

125 118 I've been thinking this was probably what they were after from the get go...make people poor and dependent upon the state; anyone left over who still isn't is taxed to hell and a handbasket.
Class warfare here we come. Divided we fall.

Posted by: unknown jane at March 09, 2011 04:38 PM (5/yRG)

126 See, people keep talking about how they're "only
expected" to receive X years of Social Security, or Medicare, or
whatever, and I'd like to know the real number. Is it 80? 85? 90?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:36 PM (8y9MW)


Well, since the Government is now saying that you won't receive full benefits until your 72, and life expectancy in the US is 78.......I'd say 80, or 8 years. That's if I understand what you're asking.

Posted by: © Sponge at March 09, 2011 04:38 PM (UK9cE)

127 Think about it, if u are getting taxed at 65% of ur income how would you could you pay for your healthcare even if you wanted to. This is being done on purpose.

Posted by: Mr Pink at March 09, 2011 04:38 PM (FsqGL)

128
What would the Average life expectancy be, then?

Don't know, but my biggest concern is running out of money. My father passed at 96 and my mother is well at 98. We geezers are very vulnerable under Obamacare.

Posted by: Fish the Impaler at March 09, 2011 04:39 PM (ZHsNw)

129 What would the Average life expectancy be, then?

Maybe this has the answer: Period Life Table

Posted by: toby928™ at March 09, 2011 04:39 PM (GTbGH)

130 Posted by: © Sponge at March 09, 2011 04:38 PM (UK9cE)

SS is only part of it.

I wonder if someone has already compiled these stats somewhere (and made them available to peruse).

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:39 PM (8y9MW)

131 If Hauser's Law is right, and it seems to be (for some value under 40% of any nation's GDP), 60% can't be collected. At some percentage—which we're probably already past, hence the massive debt/deficit runup that's been happening—revenue flattens.
So if J. Average Taxpayer does wind up paying 60%, because he can't lobby his way out of it, his burden is offset in aggregate by others' paying less, lawfully (like "Wall Street") and otherwise (like "Wall Street"'s nannies and gardeners).
And J. Average Taxpayer's eventually going to notice that, and he'll make some great TV of his own.
Boned.





Posted by: oblig

This. Ireland has had a big underground economy for years. IT was in place well before the Celtic Tiger boom, and they were borrowing and getting grants from the EU. Ask the average Irishman (living in Ireland) and they'll lovingly refer to their socialist paradise and sneer at the theartless US. And then watch them cheat the tax man one way after another.

Posted by: Blue Hen at March 09, 2011 04:40 PM (R2fpr)

132 There sure doesn't seem to be a hyperinflation event on the horizon. Mish seems to think so too, at globaleconomicanalysis dot blogspot dot com. We may be surprised at how long this haste of borrowing can continue. Musical chairs played to a scherzo.

Posted by: George Orwell at March 09, 2011 04:40 PM (AZGON)

133 100 This is part of the "perfect storm" that Beck has been talking about for years. But hey, he's crazy, right?
Posted by: Soona at March 09, 2011 04:26 PM (r416o)
No he's not crazy, he's on vacationbut the guy they have subbing for him sounded a bit crazed and nervous today. He was going on and onabout Scott Walker capitualting to the fleebaggers. I've yet to see/read/hear this but...hmmmaybe ergy is filling in for Beck this week.

Posted by: dananjcon at March 09, 2011 04:41 PM (pr+up)

134 Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:39 PM (8y9MW)


What's the minimum age for the Medi benefits, if you're not hispanic or poor, I mean.

Denouncing again.....

Posted by: © Sponge at March 09, 2011 04:41 PM (UK9cE)

135 May I add to the chorus and say: the Bone of Doom. Or Doomly Boned.

The real plan at the end of the day is that these pensions believe that the federal govt will bail them out instead of their states raising taxes or reducing benefits. Sadly, based on history they are probably right.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at March 09, 2011 04:41 PM (qqrPQ)

136 We may be surprised at how long this haste of borrowing can continue.

But why would people keep loaning to us? Because there's no alternative?

Posted by: joncelli at March 09, 2011 04:42 PM (RD7QR)

137 Don't sweat it. I'll be by in 2036 to clear the slate anyway. Maybe the lemurs will prove smarter...
Posted by: 99942 Apophis
We have very good reason to believe that you will be superfluous.

Posted by: Mayan Bureau of standards and live sacrifice at March 09, 2011 04:43 PM (R2fpr)

138 Posted by: toby928™ at March 09, 2011 04:39 PM (GTbGH)

That's not it either, but it's getting closer. I'm looking for the mean, just like that 78 years is a mean which includes all those other factors.

Basically, if you controlled for infant death and non-natural death, what is average life expectancy?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:43 PM (8y9MW)

139 But why would people keep loaning to us? Because there's no alternative?

Posted by: joncelli at March 09, 2011 04:42 PM (RD7QR)


I think it's because they know at some point, the US will become bankrupt and can be taken over and destroyed......

Posted by: © Sponge at March 09, 2011 04:44 PM (UK9cE)

140 We may be surprised at how long this haste of borrowing can continue. But why would people keep loaning to us? Because there's no alternative?
Posted by: joncelli

Q: What do you do with a sick Elephant on your doorstep?
A: Feed it peanuts.
Why? No one wants a dead elephant on their doorstep.

Posted by: Mayan Bureau of standards and live sacrifice at March 09, 2011 04:44 PM (R2fpr)

141 Posted by: © Sponge at March 09, 2011 04:41 PM (UK9cE)

For "normal" Medicare: 65 (pretty sure of that). You can also get Disability Medicare whenever. The most frequent cause of this (and actually a guarantee of Disability Medicare) is if you get End Stage Renal Disease.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:46 PM (8y9MW)

142 But why would people keep loaning to us? Because there's no alternative?

Might just be that simple, and just that desperate.

WINNING!

Posted by: George Orwell at March 09, 2011 04:47 PM (AZGON)

143 Basically, if you controlled for infant death and non-natural death, what is average life expectancy?
Except for the violent death exception, that what that chart is. If you make it to 50, the SSA expects you to live to 82.49, 60 now makes it to 83.78, 70 today on average should see 85.9 etc.

Posted by: toby928™ at March 09, 2011 04:47 PM (GTbGH)

144 Basically, if you controlled for infant death and non-natural death, what is average life expectancy?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:43 PM (8y9MW)
Would those two variables really change the average that much?

Posted by: Tami at March 09, 2011 04:47 PM (VuLos)

145 The program is paid for by existing workers, and the revenues are entrusted in a fund (mostly OASI).

hehe.

So the people on SS are funded by those still working AND there is a magic fund too. I would have thought an either or situation applied. OK so assuming you have a small overage that occurred in the past inflation wiped out the value of those dollars a long.....no wait....you smartly invested in..... stupidly invested in government bonds. So basically SS turned over real money to get govt bonds. So that "fund" doesn't have any real money in it. It has US Govt "I promise to pay sometime in the future" notes in it. So guess what WE STILL HAVE TO PAY THOSE FROM TAXES! Or go further into debt. End result of this boondoggle is excess SS taxes of the past went into the general fund and got spent, excess SS obligations of the present and future must be payed from the general fund. There is no magical bank account with SS money hanging out anywhere period.

Do you get it now dumbass? SS obligations, Medicare, Debt, = trifecta of fiscal disaster which can only be solved by cutting spending or taxing people at feudal rates?

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at March 09, 2011 04:48 PM (0q2P7)

146 For "normal" Medicare: 65 (pretty sure of that).
You can also get Disability Medicare whenever. The most frequent cause
of this (and actually a guarantee of Disability Medicare) is if you get
End Stage Renal Disease.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:46 PM (8y9MW)


So, along with the raise of full SS benefits, it is only natural to assume that they're going to raise the age for MC as well soon......

Posted by: © Sponge at March 09, 2011 04:50 PM (UK9cE)

147 Interestingly enough, I read that while black men tend to die young, those that make it to 70 have a 2 to 1 chance of seeing 90+.

Posted by: toby928™ at March 09, 2011 04:50 PM (GTbGH)

148 2012! This may be one of the most important elections in our history. If we blow it, the United States of America under the US Constitution will no longer exist. In many ways, I feel 2012 will be too late for us.And after talking to some of the woefully mis-educated/public school indoctrinatedyoung people I know, any win we have in 2012 will be canceled out in four to six years.

Posted by: Soona at March 09, 2011 04:50 PM (r416o)

149 Why the private healthcare insurance industry, slapdick? Why not the "catfish farming racket", or "the Jews", or "the Mustard Seed Growers Co-Op," or "those whores in the Junior League," or ANY OTHER COMBINATION OF RANDOM WORDS THAT HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FISCAL CRISIS.

What a fucking lightweight. I wouldn't even hit you with my fist, I'd just slap you like the silly bitch you are. How can you be such a failure at trolling? It's like failing at jerking off - it's just not supposed to be possible. And yet, here you area, exploring new frontiers of ignorance and failure.

If a hobo beat you senseless with a sock full of his own shit and filled your unconscious mouth with his unspeakably filthy balls and took pictures of the deed to sell to tourists, IT WOULD MEAN THINGS WERE LOOKING UP FOR YOU, ERG. Because at least then, you'd be contributing to the economy.

There's no lower for you to sink, erg. This is IT. You need to find a tall building located next to a pile of rusty, jagged, spiky metal junk, make your way to the roof of that building and throw yourself onto that pile of junk.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 09, 2011 04:52 PM (1zgwP)

150 Posted by: MikeTheMoose at March 09, 2011 04:48 PM (0q2P7)


Don't waste your time. He's kinda like a dog after dinner.......wanders into the room.....lays down....floats an air-biskit that can kill......gets up and leaves...

Posted by: © Sponge at March 09, 2011 04:52 PM (UK9cE)

151 Posted by: Tami at March 09, 2011 04:47 PM (VuLos)

I dunno. I suspect they'd have a measurable impact, but I don't know how much of one. When you reduce a statistical population, you modify the statistics. If you take out all the people who died from something other than disease/old age/heart attack/other natural cause and THEN say (sum of age at death)/(population) I bet it changes. I have no idea how significantly.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 09, 2011 04:53 PM (8y9MW)

152 If a hobo beat you senseless with a sock full of his own shit and filled your unconscious mouth with his unspeakably filthy balls and took pictures of the deed to sell to tourists, IT WOULD MEAN THINGS WERE LOOKING UP FOR YOU, ERG. Because at least then, you'd be contributing to the economy.

Okay, stop that. My coworkers are starting to wonder why I'm chortling like this.

Posted by: joncelli at March 09, 2011 04:54 PM (RD7QR)

153 The problem isn't a pension crisis, it's that Bush opened Guantanamo in the first place.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at March 09, 2011 04:54 PM (AZGON)

154 Erg is worried about the future - worried that an imaginary magic deal to support him for life is being put at risk by Rethuglicans. Never will he understand thatthe programwas doomed by its verynature, from the beginning. His mindless reaction is like punching a doctor who has just toldhim thathe has cancer.
The way to secure the financial future for erg and people like him is simple - cheap government-supplied dope. Did I say cheap? Make it gratis. As long asthe dope supply istaken care of, he'll be happy to live a drugged fantasy life amid penury and squalor forever. He already proves that every day.
My only stipulation in signing off on this plan is that the free dope has to be called "soma." Screw up the nomencalture, and the deal's off.

Posted by: Wm T Sherman at March 09, 2011 05:00 PM (w41GQ)

155 Fuck erg. Probably posting on a fucking Macbook with an anarchy sticker on the lid, wearing olive green cargo pants and a too-tight black tshirt that lovingly hugs his sweaty folds.

Fucking white Oliver Willis-looking bitch.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 09, 2011 05:04 PM (TATbF)

156 That's what Obama's doing -- he is doing Reagan in reverse. Whereas Reagan "starved the beast" of income to force it to slim down, Obama is force-feeding and fattening his pet the government in order to make it not merely politically acceptable to jack up tax rates to Italy-in-the-1970s levels, but absolutely required if we are to avoid default and bankruptcy and depression.

I've been calling it "engorging the beast". It's to force some Republicans to vote for higher taxes so the country isn't destroyed via an Argentina-style debt burden.

Posted by: A.G. at March 09, 2011 05:23 PM (oAVyq)

157 When the defecit is 1600 Billion, why are we still only talking about cutting 61 Billion? Jeebus, they are screaming rape, and loss of Cowboy Poems at 61 Billion. Why not cut 1600 Billion to balance the budget TODAY? The screaming will be the same decibel level, plus it gives us more room to baragin down to say, 500 Billion. We are BONED if we can't do any better than a 3.8% cut in the defecit (61 Billion).

Posted by: Schwalbe : The © at March 09, 2011 05:28 PM (UU0OF)

158 re: life expectancy...

the economist covers that here:
http://www.economist.com/node/
15573043?story_id=15573043&fsrc=nwl

Posted by: A.G. at March 09, 2011 05:28 PM (oAVyq)

159 If a hobo beat you senseless with a sock full of his own shit and filled your unconscious mouth with his unspeakably filthy balls and took pictures of the deed to sell to tourists, IT WOULD MEAN THINGS WERE LOOKING UP FOR YOU, ERG. Because at least then, you'd be contributing to the economy. I think this one tops the pez post. Amirite?

Posted by: Schwalbe : The © at March 09, 2011 05:48 PM (UU0OF)

160

Can the Treasury literally just print as much money as the Executive
decrees?

I'm not talking about selling bonds, to people or to the
Federal Reserve, because the Debt Ceiling limits that.

I mean, what if
they just ran the presses night and day printing $100 bills to pay
government workers? Is there anything that prevents that?

Posted by: toby928™ at March 09, 2011 05:58 PM (GTbGH)

161 I just got here so I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet but most of those states in trouble like Illinois, New York, New Jersey pay these outrageous pensions and then the money ends up getting spent in Florida or Arizona or some other low tax, nice weather state where the retirees flee to as soon as humanly possible. They don't even get the advantage of their income redistribution scheme building business in the state that's just been screwed.

Posted by: Sharon at March 09, 2011 07:01 PM (xdlXv)

162 metin2 gold

metin2 yang


tera gold

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