No 3/5ths Quorum Needed To Pass Wisconsin Union Bill?

But... I guess I'm confused because I thought we already knew this. I mean, yes, 3/5ths for fiscal measures; I don't see a law about collective bargaining being fiscal in nature. I'd be surprised if anyone argued it were.

I thought they were just avoiding doing this because they're either not serious or they're waiting for the unions and Democrats to take a bad step that embarrasses them, giving them temporary cover to do this.

But maybe I was wrong about this being widely accepted.

the Wisconsin Constitution requires a three-fifths quorum only for statutes that are fiscal, that is, statutes that actually appropriate money, impose taxes, create a debt, or release a claim owed to the state. Even then, these categories have consistently been interpreted in the most limited form conceivable.

For example, in State v. Stitt (1983), the Wisconsin Supreme Court determined that the issuance of short-term debt was not debt under Article VIII of the constitution and thus was not “fiscal” so as to trigger the three-fifths quorum and roll call requirements.

The Wisconsin attorney general in 1971 gave a formal opinion to the legislature that a bill that changed collective bargaining rights substantially was not fiscal in nature and was not subject to the three-fifths super quorum provision. Because collective bargaining rights and that very statutory chapter (ch. 111) are at the heart of the proposed Senate Bill 11, the most controversial portions of the bill could be passed constitutionally with just a simple majority of elected members present, without a three-fifths quorum.

The whole bill can't be passed without the quorum, because much of it is plainly fiscal. But those parts can be separated out and the non-fiscal parts passed ASAP.

Posted by: Ace at 06:21 PM



Comments

1 We've won this one already.

Posted by: pep at March 03, 2011 06:22 PM (P18+/)

2 And by won, I mean jammed it up their squeakholes. With malice aforethought.

Posted by: pep at March 03, 2011 06:23 PM (P18+/)

3 And extra honey badger suppositories.

Posted by: pep at March 03, 2011 06:23 PM (P18+/)

4 Walker has been saying that collective bargaining is costing the state money, so he's boxed himself into a corner. But none of this matters. The fleeing Dems have solidly won the PR war, even according to Rasmussen. They have no reason to come back now. The only question is how long it will take enough GOP state senators to cave.

Posted by: Greg at March 03, 2011 06:25 PM (A0Q4i)

5 Heres the rub - Gov.Walker said it was a fiscal issue and he's sticking to that claim...

Posted by: americandawg at March 03, 2011 06:27 PM (KrhEJ)

6 I stick my head as far up my ass as I can so I can pull biased statistics out with my tongue! Sorry for smearing shit all over your monitor!

Posted by: Greg at March 03, 2011 06:28 PM (A0Q4i)

7 Yeah, no wave occurred in elections in Wisconsin. Onwards to our Glorious Progressive Future, comrades!

Cordially..l

Posted by: Rick at March 03, 2011 06:29 PM (HbWhE)

8 Greg, did you see the breakdown of Rasmussen's poll? Thirty % were Union members and they polled 45 % of people who said they didn't vote for Walker and 46% who said they did. Walker won by 52%.Rasmussen himself mentioned this.

Posted by: Donna at March 03, 2011 06:30 PM (DhK9/)

9 Greg is back to troll again.

Posted by: Nate at March 03, 2011 06:32 PM (y3oht)

10 According to whom?

Oh, I don't know. Perhaps the fact that one side consists of the duly elected people's representatives, and the other is made up of carpetbaggers crapping in the capital and union thugs. Please don't waste time citing the polls whose sample group is made up of union employees.

Posted by: pep at March 03, 2011 06:32 PM (P18+/)

11 The poll that mattered occurred in November, the recent ones vary depending on the wording of the questions asked.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 03, 2011 06:32 PM (4ZxEW)

12 The collective bargaining provision was in the same bill as the increase in teacher contributions, making it a fiscal bill. When this first came up, Walker said he didn't want to play games. He wanted the Dems to do their jobs.

Posted by: Iron Balls McGinty at March 03, 2011 06:33 PM (/7n/7)

13 Wahhh! Wahhhhh! Wahhh!


Someone change my red diaper! Wahhhhh!

Posted by: erg loughner at March 03, 2011 06:33 PM (JaL+E)

14 Ergie's back!

Hi, Ergie! I see you finally got around the banhammer.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 03, 2011 06:33 PM (8y9MW)

15 Greg the troll....now with 1000% more libtard stupidity

Posted by: Crowsting at March 03, 2011 06:34 PM (61BD9)

16 George Soros writes my paychecks!

Posted by: Greg at March 03, 2011 06:35 PM (A0Q4i)

17 Has any other state than Ohio already passed their similar planned bills? Tennessee? Who else was in the wings? I kind of thought once this passed elsewhere the MarxSpewMedia would drop it and the fleebaggers would slink back and the vote would just barely get reported.

Posted by: Palerider at March 03, 2011 06:35 PM (dkExz)

18 I wouldn't put too much stock in the recent polls, 50% of people don't believe in them ...

Posted by: americandawg at March 03, 2011 06:35 PM (KrhEJ)

19 Posted by: Crowsting at March 03, 2011 06:34 PM (61BD9)

Oh, no. This is about par for the course libtard stupidity from Ergie.

Hey, Ergie, how's your mom's "business?" Did she get that weird rash figured out, yet?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 03, 2011 06:35 PM (8y9MW)

20 The fleeing Dems have solidly won the PR war, even according to Rasmussen. They have no reason to come back now. The only question is how long it will take enough GOP state senators to cave.
Posted by: Greg at March 03, 2011 06:25 PM (A0Q4i)

I'm not buying this. I think Walker and most of the repub senaters understand that what's going on has national implications. Walker may want an open debate on this andthat may be the reason theWI senate hasn't already gotten this done.I'd almost say give them back their collective bargaining rights, but keep everything else in the bill. After all, the unions chose that specific point to demonstrate over. Give it to them and then watch them squirm when teachers actually have a choice whether or not to pay their union dues.

Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2011 06:36 PM (4XEga)

21 Greg probably has to get his Soros mandated quota in for the day.
Unlike the Koch brothers, Soros has actually destroyed stuff......

Posted by: Crowsting at March 03, 2011 06:36 PM (61BD9)

22 Could it be Walker is taking this route to prevent court intervention?, pass it alone and that sucker will get into the courts somehow. I think this is a 'safer' route. I could be talking out of my ass but just an observation

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 03, 2011 06:37 PM (FIDMq)

23 Shoot. I didn't realize the Greg was erg, or else I wouldn't have given him the attention he so clearly didn't get as a child.

Posted by: pep at March 03, 2011 06:37 PM (P18+/)

24 How about a compromise?

Posted by: garrett at March 03, 2011 06:37 PM (lEg7y)

25 The GOP's got the moral ascendancy on this right now, but at some point just letting it go on starts to cost them points.

Show some decisiveness. Pass something. Git'r'done.

Posted by: JEM at March 03, 2011 06:37 PM (o+SC1)

26 No difference between a fiscal bill and a bill with fiscal consequences?

Posted by: Mr. Barky at March 03, 2011 06:37 PM (qwK3S)

27 It's funny. Given how terrible this bill is for all the Repubs, you would think the Dems would be doing handsprings in contemplation of the imminent electoral slaughter in '12. Yet they aren't. I wonder why?

Posted by: pep at March 03, 2011 06:39 PM (P18+/)

28 Posted by: pep at March 03, 2011 06:37 PM (P18+/)

The reason we use 'erg' is because Ace got so ticked at him when he banned him, he just looked for that screen-name- no matter the IP Hash. So people who used 'Greg' as a sock-puppet had to move fast not to get banned along with him.

They started posting as "Erg" or "Ergie" or whatever, and it just kind of rolled from there.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 03, 2011 06:39 PM (8y9MW)

29 We need to split this baby apart! Bring me the legislative chainsaw.

Posted by: King Solomon at March 03, 2011 06:40 PM (ihSHD)

30 Hey Greg if the Dems were winning the so called P.R. battle ,Then why arent the senate floor fighting for their amendments ? I'm guessing you can't answer that...
"A fool and his rights are soon parted "

Posted by: americandawg at March 03, 2011 06:40 PM (KrhEJ)

31 Greg, the ass-kicking happened in November. This is ankle-biting, soon to be pillow-biting.

I'm from Wisconsin, I know the difference between such shit.

Posted by: B.J. Raji's Ballsack at March 03, 2011 06:42 PM (IB7Vu)

32 The reason we use 'erg' is because Ace got so ticked at him when he
banned him, he just looked for that screen-name- no matter the IP Hash.
So people who used 'Greg' as a sock-puppet had to move fast not to get
banned along with him.They started posting as "Erg" or "Ergie" or whatever, and it just kind of rolled from there.

Programs, getcher programs here. Can't tell the players witout a program.

Posted by: pep at March 03, 2011 06:43 PM (P18+/)

33 I wonder how many tapeworms erg supports.

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 03, 2011 06:44 PM (V3oeJ)

34 So the public that just elected Walker is what, out of state?

Posted by: nickless at March 03, 2011 06:44 PM (MMC8r)

35 Posted by: pep at March 03, 2011 06:43 PM (P18+/)

Exactly.

Only, he normally argued more than this. I wonder if I already broke him for the evening...

Sad.

Oh, well, I'm sure he'll post something stupid later, or sometime tomorrow.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 03, 2011 06:45 PM (8y9MW)

36 I wonder how many tapeworms erg supports.
Posted by: Waterhouse at March 03, 2011 06:44 PM (V3oeJ)

Just one. But he shares it with his mother.

Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2011 06:46 PM (4XEga)

37 Erg is on a drug called Erg. He has Tiger Blood.

Posted by: Marla at March 03, 2011 06:46 PM (kD8Fh)

38 You know that defeat is in the bag for Dems when ergie the troll shows up to post. Bahgdad Bob has got nothing on this guy.

Posted by: I'm Greg, dammit! at March 03, 2011 06:46 PM (3W1+C)

39 Posted by: Greg at March 03, 2011 06:25 PM (A0Q4i)

I was just about to take this blather seriously and try to explain the profound flaws in every one of his statements. But then I realized that he has hypoxia from his anal sphincter choking off the blood supply to his brain, and he probably wouldn't understand.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at March 03, 2011 06:47 PM (LH6ir)

40 I live to teabag Howard Dean!

Posted by: Greg at March 03, 2011 06:49 PM (A0Q4i)

41 It's past time to do this. If you are worried about court cases later then bring up an almost identical bill when they Dems are back and pass it then. But this passivity in the face of lawlessness is getting a bit ridiculous.

Posted by: Rocks at March 03, 2011 06:49 PM (Q1lie)

42 Posted by: pep at March 03, 2011 06:37 PM (P18+/)

Oh, he got attention all right. But his dad's dick in his ass whenever his mom went out hooking isn't the sort of healthy father-son interaction that builds sound minds.

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at March 03, 2011 06:49 PM (LH6ir)

43 I wonder how many tapeworms erg supports.

Does he allow those tapeworms collective bargaining rights?

Posted by: fluffy is not done with the monkey poo at March 03, 2011 06:50 PM (SwkdU)

44 Greg's right, everyone supports public union employees who make 50% more than them and don't do a lick of fucking work. It's science.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 03, 2011 06:50 PM (4ZxEW)

45 Greg isn't erg. I know erg, I gave him the name egg mcmuffin, thats no erg.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 03, 2011 06:50 PM (TMB3S)

46 The whole bill can't be passed without the quorum, because much of it is
plainly fiscal. But those parts can be separated out and the
non-fiscal parts passed ASAP

Then its time to separate out and pass these non-fiscal parts to get the ball rolling. Gov. Walker has done a superlative job in not folding thus far and a legislative victory would do much to keep the wobbly Senate Republicans in line. Particularly if this move is supported by the public.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at March 03, 2011 06:51 PM (W+Irb)

47 Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2011 06:46 PM (4XEga)

Is that a variant of "docking?"

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at March 03, 2011 06:51 PM (LH6ir)

48 O/T: I like Christie, he gives you a 'heads up' and when you choose to ignore him, he lowers the boom: "These employees are being suspended without pay based on the fact that
we have evidence to prove that they were not home sick as they had
claimed," said Lillian Burry, a county official."

Posted by: curious at March 03, 2011 06:51 PM (k1rwm)

49 Greg: Do you have the votes? No? Then stick the poll in your ass.

Posted by: SurferDoc at March 03, 2011 06:52 PM (o3bYL)

50 I posted this a couple threads back but want to say it again because it needs to be screamed from the rooftops, all day and every day.....
I want to know where the fuck the outrage is? When Democrats win elections they say "I Won" and then make uprules and steamroller the opposition. When Republicans win, the Democrats decide they don't want to play anymore and run and hide. In the Democrats mind when they win, they win. When they lose, they call in the thugs and still win. Where the fuck are the American people in screaming bloody murder? Is this what they call a democracy? What it is is a thogocracy. And I'll answer my first question. There is no outrage because the media has decided that there won't be any outrage by not covering the story or minimally covering it. Just imagine if the roles were reversed and it was Republicans pulling this kind of shit. The media would have lynch mobs parked outside the hotels where they were hiding. This fucking country is lost when the media throws in with the thugs.

Posted by: LGoPs at March 03, 2011 06:52 PM (SaT1/)

51 #40 Because the public supports them fleeing the state, believe it or not.
And Walker hasn't done anything to make it tough for them to stay away.
They won't be back anytime soon.

Bleg, you're back! How have you been?

btw, I'd like to see this *ahem* polling data supporting the Fleabaggers. Along with its associated polling demographics.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at March 03, 2011 06:52 PM (W+Irb)

52 erg is a crap-and-leave troll.

Greg is a repeater.

Posted by: nickless at March 03, 2011 06:52 PM (MMC8r)

53 This clearly falls under the Good Plenty clause.

Posted by: Eric Cockholder at March 03, 2011 06:52 PM (h0RtZ)

54 Vinson!

So to “clarify” my order and judgment: The individual mandate was
declared unconstitutional. Because that “essential” provision was
unseverable from the rest of the Act, the entire legislation was void.
This declaratory judgment was expected to be treated as the “practical”
and “functional equivalent of an injunction” with respect to the parties
to the litigation. This expectation was based on the “longstanding
presumption” that the defendants themselves identified and agreed to be
bound by, which provides that a declaratory judgment against federal
officials is a de facto injunction. To the extent that the defendants
were unable (or believed that they were unable) to comply, it was
expected that they would immediately seek a stay of the ruling, and at
that point in time present their arguments for why such a stay is
necessary, which is the usual and standard procedure. It was not
expected that they would effectively ignore the order and declaratory
judgment for two and one-half weeks, continue to implement the Act, and
only then file a belated motion to “clarify.

Posted by: interested at March 03, 2011 06:53 PM (cZqFI)

55 Hey eggamoobymuffin, you dumb fucking Marxists forgot the first rule of the eternal parasite - don't kill the host.

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 03, 2011 06:53 PM (V3oeJ)

56 Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at March 03, 2011 06:51 PM (W+Irb)

That's where I am on this, now, too. They tried the "nice" way, with everything in one package. Now that the Democrats have shown they're willing to hold the Taxpayers in WI hostage for their Union Boss buddies, it's time to split the bill apart, and start passing everything Democrats hate in it without a 3/5 quorum.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at March 03, 2011 06:54 PM (8y9MW)

57 How are these Democrat getting paid by the taxpayers for abandoning their jobs like this? Could taxpayers sue them?

Posted by: rehdshjd at March 03, 2011 06:54 PM (xW/nO)

58 Because the public supports them fleeing the state, believe it or not.
Not. Even my bellwether friends in the squishy middle see it as job abandonment at the least, abject cowardice at worst.
In other GOP guvs with nads news: public employees who called out sick to rally in Trenton last Friday were suspended. These were drivers who left developmentally disabled citizens standing at their bus stops in the rain, and patients who depended on them to take them to dialysis were stranded. Monmouth County ended up hiring a private bus service to transport these dependent New Jerseyans to their appointments.

Posted by: Marla at March 03, 2011 06:55 PM (kD8Fh)

59 it's time to split the bill apart, and start passing everything Democrats hate in it without a 3/5 quorum.

And with each passed bill, there needs to be a round of Braveheart-style mooning.

Posted by: pep at March 03, 2011 06:55 PM (P18+/)

60 Posted by: LGoPs at March 03, 2011 06:52 PM (SaT1/)


That's just another example of the "progressive" ratchet - in the mind of a stupid fucking socialist, the wheel of history can only turn one way.

Now they've ratcheted their way into bankrupting cities, states and nations. Good job, innumerate fuckwits.

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 03, 2011 06:56 PM (V3oeJ)

61 48 - curious - I didn't see your post, thanks for providing the link.

Posted by: Marla at March 03, 2011 06:57 PM (kD8Fh)

62 Is that a variant of "docking?"
Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at March 03, 2011 06:51 PM (LH6ir)

Nah. It's like two lovers sucking on one string of spaghetti.

Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2011 06:57 PM (4XEga)

63 I know nobody here will believe it, but I went to Marquette with Scott Walker. And even then when he was on student govt, he was just too nice. He has great ideas, but won't play hardball when needed. How many times can he threaten layoffs and not follow through.

BTW, Dale Schultz gave an interview today and ripped his fellow GOP state senators for "overreaching." He's the biggest RINO in WI, but if there's waffling going on now with the sinking poll numbers, more dissenters will come out.

Posted by: Greg at March 03, 2011 06:58 PM (A0Q4i)

64 Walker has foolishly squandered the support of drum circle participants, but has gained fierce support among Illinois motel owners.

Posted by: Ted Kennedy's Gristle Encased Head at March 03, 2011 06:58 PM (+lsX1)

65 Playing hooky was so cool when I was in grade school, - if only I'd known I could make friends, influence people, and earn a living doing it, I'd have become a politician.

Walker needs to send a message to the people of Wisconsin, -those who may or may not have taken an oath, by cracking down on these fucksticks with the harshest penalty allowed within the letter of the law, and to let them know that this shit doesn't fucking fly.

Hasn't this shit gone on long enough?

Posted by: Fritz at March 03, 2011 06:58 PM (/8mBu)

66 @40 GREG - " Because the public supports them fleeing the state, believe it or not.
And Walker hasn't done anything to make it tough for them to stay away.
They won't be back anytime soon."

I was right you couldn't answer it , from everything I read most of the public are sick of this childish tactic , What if the Governor didn't like a bill that passed and decided to leave the state so he wouldn't have to sign it , Would the public support him ?

Posted by: americandawg at March 03, 2011 06:58 PM (KrhEJ)

67 Greg, I'm sorry you're so upset about what's happening in Wisconsin, but what happened is that the Republican party gained control of both the senate and theassemplyin the "not a wave" election that occured in November.




Wisconsin State Assembly

Party
Asof November 1, 2010
After the 2010 Election


Democratic Party
50
38


Republican Party
45
60


Independent
2
1


Vacancy
2
-

Total
99
99
NOT A WAVE!!!!

Posted by: Warden at March 03, 2011 07:00 PM (mfZ9a)

68 Nope just break the union provisions out and pass it ... majority votes.

Then put it where Obama put the Obamacare bill.

Posted by: tarpon at March 03, 2011 07:00 PM (g0QB8)

69 Er, didn't just post this 30 minutes ago? Hat tip??

41
#1

I have written about that about 10 times.

They can cut out the union shit and pass it with out the 20th vote.

They can redistrict, gerrymander the bastards out of their seats.

They can pass voter ID.

They can pass concealed carry.

The Republicans need to get their shit together and GET TO WORK!


Posted by: Kemp at March 03, 2011 06:23 PM (JpFM9)

Posted by: Kemp at March 03, 2011 07:01 PM (JpFM9)

70 If you like your lack of hat-tip, you can keep it.

Posted by: Waterhouse at March 03, 2011 07:01 PM (V3oeJ)

71 I'm seriously beginning to think that when the republicans have all the cards they seriously don't know how to run with it. Maybe they aren't evil enough to behave like the dems.

Posted by: curious at March 03, 2011 07:02 PM (k1rwm)

72 "from everything I read most of the public are sick of this childish
tactic"

Then you're just reading partisan blogs that favor your side of the argument. Look at today's Rasmussen poll to see how the issue is breaking. Walker has lost the PR war.

Posted by: Greg at March 03, 2011 07:03 PM (A0Q4i)

73 Huffington Post contributors going on strike until they get paid. h/t iowahawk.

Now that's a union I can get behind.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 03, 2011 07:03 PM (T0NGe)

74 53 - ahhhh Good and Plenty my favorite candy. As a child you could get it for 10 cents at the theatre and the show was only 50 cents. I had to have Good and Plenty to watch a movie. We only got $1.00 to go to the show so we had to watch what we spent our money on! Yes, I am that old.

Posted by: gesc at March 03, 2011 07:03 PM (pcWke)

75 OT: Newt's wife is one of the hottest albinos I've ever seen. Top ten for sure.

Posted by: Ted Kennedy's Gristle Encased Head at March 03, 2011 07:04 PM (+lsX1)

76 "Walker has been saying that collective bargaining is costing the state money, so he's boxed himself into a corner."

That's not what fiscal means. Fiscal doesn't just mean having to do something indirectly with money. 99% of bills would b "fiscal" by that definition.

It means directly having to do with the collection of revenue and budgeting for spending.

But Walker and the Republicans have, by repeatedly claiming they couldn't do this, boxed themselves in. I guess you're right about that, about past statements now binding them.

But those past statements were wrong.

Posted by: ace at March 03, 2011 07:04 PM (nj1bB)

77 I don't need no stinking hat tip, I want the fuckers to start redistricting!
The Fleebaggers will be back in 30 minutes.

Nothing says loving a fucking on the oven!

Posted by: Kemp at March 03, 2011 07:04 PM (JpFM9)

78 If a poll falls in the forrest and nobody is around to hear it does it still make a sound ?

Posted by: SOMEASSHOLESTOLEMYPEN at March 03, 2011 07:05 PM (VmAoa)

79 Wisconsin State Assembly before the not-a-wave 2010 election:
Democrats 50 Republicans 38
after the election...
Democrats 45 Republicans 60
Wisconsin Senate before the not-a-wave 2010 election:
Democrats 18 Republicans 15
after the election...
Democrats 14 Republicans 19

Remember, Greggie... NOT A WAVE!!!

Posted by: Warden at March 03, 2011 07:05 PM (mfZ9a)

80 Walker has foolishly squandered the support of drum circle participants, but has gained fierce support among Illinois motel owners.
Run tell!
I'm convinced the fleebaggers are staying in IL just long enough to meet the residency requirement to run for office there. Then after elected, they can zip across the state line at will, collecting salary, pension and bennies in both states. IOW thenotorious "double dip" personal wealthcreation plan.

Posted by: Marla at March 03, 2011 07:06 PM (kD8Fh)

81 if the Reps just passed IT, wouldn't the dems focus on that state in next election cycle and overturn it as Obama did some of Bush 's

Posted by: willow at March 03, 2011 07:08 PM (h+qn8)

82 But Walker and the Republicans have, by repeatedly claiming they
couldn't do this, boxed themselves in. I guess you're right about that,
about past statements now binding them.



But those past statements were wrong.

The art of saying 'nice doggie' until you find a club.

Posted by: nickless at March 03, 2011 07:08 PM (MMC8r)

83 Look at today's Rasmussen poll to see how the issue is breaking. Walker has lost the PR war.
Posted by: Greg at March 03, 2011 07:03 PM (A0Q4i)
The only poll that matters is the one taken in November that flipped the Wisconsin governorship,senate and assembly to the Republicans.
You remember that election, right?
The not-a-wave one?

Posted by: Warden at March 03, 2011 07:08 PM (mfZ9a)

84 Hey Greg, who's going to pay for the $7.5 million in damages to the State Capital?

Can we take that out of the union dues?

Posted by: Kemp at March 03, 2011 07:09 PM (JpFM9)

85 The fucksaw's comin', ergie! You can't stop it!


Wheee!!!! Fuck you and your union parasite fatasses!

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 03, 2011 07:09 PM (+61wI)

86 Greg may be a troll, may not be a troll, I dunno (it's hard to keep up), but I think people are whistling past the graveyard if they don't think this is hurting the GOP's popularity in WI right now. For better or worse, a lot of people are addicted to consolatory fantasies about unions and "rights" in the state.

Walker and the GOP can't really back down now for a whole host of reasons (best summarized in the old Franklin nostrum "we hang together or hang separately" - Walker and the GOP would be destroyed by both opposition Dems and angry Republican supporters if they were to walk away at this point), but let's not be simpleminded about assuming it will have a happy electoral ending. After all, that's what Obama and his myrmidons kept reassuring themselves about Obamacare.

Still, it has to be done, and I'm glad it's being done, and I pray for its ultimate success. But let's not fool ourselves. Quibble about proper sample sizes if you want, but every single poll out there makes it clear that the American people, both in WI and across the nation, haven't really gotten serious or fully educated about what needs to be done.

Posted by: Jeff B. at March 03, 2011 07:09 PM (NjYDy)

87 I'm seriously beginning to think that when the republicans have all the cards they seriously don't know how to run with it. Maybe they aren't evil enough to behave like the dems.
Posted by: curious at March 03, 2011 07:02 PM (k1rwm)
They aren't but they should get in touch with their inner Chuck Norris, get righteously angryand proceed to beat the ever loving shit out of anyone who has the misfortune to look at them cross-eyed.

Posted by: ErikW at March 03, 2011 07:10 PM (hgJhc)

88 Oh fuck, I thought Greg was banned Election Night.Re-ban, please!!!

Posted by: logprof at March 03, 2011 07:10 PM (BP6Z1)

89 Walker has lost the PR war.
Christie was behind in the PR battle as well, until he began taking his message to the people. Now his approval is 4 points higher than what won him election.
Walker hasn't lost anything because the battle has just begun.

Posted by: Marla at March 03, 2011 07:10 PM (kD8Fh)

90 Greg , I read the Journal sentinel, Green bay press gazett and the Wisconsin State Journal Every Day ...I was born in Wisconsin and eat Bratwurst for breakfast... Side-note - Walker just said he is sending out notices on Friday...

Posted by: americandawg at March 03, 2011 07:11 PM (KrhEJ)

91 Isn't WI the state you can register to vote on election day?

That's got to go when they write the voter ID bill.

Posted by: Kemp at March 03, 2011 07:12 PM (JpFM9)

92 I support the Wisconsin Democratic senators. In hopes of a reacharound the aisle.

Posted by: Greg at March 03, 2011 07:12 PM (A0Q4i)

93 Greg and erg (which is short for something like ergastritis or something like that) are separate entities.

ergie says "knucklehead" and cusses Ace out; Greg is the concern troll who obsesses over polls.

Posted by: logprof at March 03, 2011 07:12 PM (BP6Z1)

94 Huffington Post contributors going on strike until they get paid. h/t iowahawk.Now that's a union I can get behind.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 03, 2011 07:03 PM (T0NGe)
Seriously?! Bwahahahaha!!!

Posted by: Tami at March 03, 2011 07:12 PM (VuLos)

95 Jeff, many Americans don't seem to be able to grasp what dire financial circumstances our country is in. we can't even seem to get that message out.

Posted by: willow at March 03, 2011 07:13 PM (h+qn8)

96 Jim Holperin wipes my ass with his tongue!

Posted by: Greg at March 03, 2011 07:14 PM (A0Q4i)

97 ergastritis or something like that

ergastularius (a fish). Now he's decided to taunt about murdered nuns in el salvador or somesuch.

erg is a Loughner type, fueled with some seething funhouse-mirror view of the world expressed in complete incomprehensibility.

Posted by: nickless at March 03, 2011 07:15 PM (MMC8r)

98 From AP:

SNIP~

In an interview Thursday with The Associated Press, Walker said he
will issue layoff notices to 1,500 state workers on Friday if his
proposal, which also would force the workers to pay more for benefits,
isn't passed. Because the Senate Democrats left, the chamber doesn't
have a quorum.

While Walker said he is actively working with some of
the Democrats in hopes of striking a deal, he told the AP he won't
compromise on the collective bargaining issue or anything that saves the
state money.
http://tinyurl.com/4n7r5d5

Posted by: Tami at March 03, 2011 07:16 PM (VuLos)

99 Greg , I read the Journal sentinel, Green bay press gazett and the Wisconsin State Journal Every Day ...I was born in Wisconsin and eat Bratwurst for breakfast... Side-note - Walker just said he is sending out notices on Friday...
I'm just wondering if Walker started weighing the choice of cost effectiveness by delaying doing anything. What would save more money. Not giving teachers collective bargaining rights or laying off x-thousand public employees.

Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2011 07:16 PM (4XEga)

100 Since the WI Republicans have some time on their hands, pass a law requiring presidential candidates to prove they are actually born in the USA. Either Ogabe wasn't born in the USA or there is something awfully embarrassing in his birth records (if they actually exist).

Posted by: Turd Ferguson at March 03, 2011 07:17 PM (6yyVB)

101 After all, that's what Obama and his myrmidons kept reassuring themselves about Obamacare.
From what I've read of the Republican senators' comments, they are fully aware of the recall efforts against them, but are staying committed to their original objective. Pelosi et al did not see the danger ahead, and really believed that once we saw what was in the bill we would loves us some Obamacare.

Posted by: Marla at March 03, 2011 07:18 PM (kD8Fh)

102 Yes, Walker is letting this drag out too long. Split the bill and start voting on the non-fiscal matters. Those fleebaggers won't be able to run back fast enough.

Posted by: sock puppeh at March 03, 2011 07:19 PM (VcPAo)

103 Greg and erg (which is short for something like ergastritis or something like that) are separate entities.
Posted by: logprof at March 03, 2011 07:12 PM (BP6Z1)
IIRC, when Ergastilarius found himself in a tough position, he would bail and tell everyone it was time for him to walk his dog on the beach and enjoy a cocktail.

Posted by: ErikW at March 03, 2011 07:19 PM (hgJhc)

104 Greg, when you're done rimming out Noodle Boy's asshole, can you take a quick count of Democrat vs. Republican Senators in WI for me?

That's The Fucksaw Difference!

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 03, 2011 07:19 PM (1zgwP)

105 We've got some people living in a bubble up in this blog.

Scott Walker's overreach on this bill is going to hurt Republicans.

Walker took a winning argument (teachers need to make wage and benefit concessions) and turned it into a losing argument (teachers shouldn't have the right to collectively bargain).

People may not love unions, but they are generally supportive of the right to collectively bargain.

Rick Snyder is going to get concessions beyond what Walker is getting in Wisconsin, AND he's managing to do it without creating a huge backlash because he's not directly going after the right to collectively bargain.

Unfortunately, Walker has poisoned the well. I can tell you this from my personal experience. I am a public school teacher. I am a conservative. I have four close teacher friends who are very religious and socially conservative. All of them consistently vote Republican. They WON'T BE VOTING GOP in 2012.

Don't believe me? All of you have friends who are cops, firefighters, or public school teachers. Ask them how they feel about the Grand Ole' Party right about now.

Keep "union-busting" and watch how fast all of those white middle-class independents desert the GOP.

Hell, as confrontational as Chris Christie has been, he's STILL SMART ENOUGH not to challenge the right of workers to collectively bargain.

Arguing for fiscal sacrifice = good politics

Union busting = energized Democratic base + bad politics

Posted by: stickety at March 03, 2011 07:20 PM (FUDwf)

106 >>Jeff, many Americans don't seem to be able to grasp what dire financial
circumstances our country is in. we can't even seem to get that message
out.

I don't really think ANYONE will be able to get that message across, absent either a.) TRUE bipartisan elected consensus (which ain't happening); b.) economic apocalypse. The ugly truth is that the American public as it exists (and not as we wish it would exist) really DOES want to believe in skittle-shitting unicorns and happy win-win no-pain solutions. Just look at all the polling, from all sides, on entitlement reform. Hell, even among a certain segment of Tea Partiers there seems to be a refusal to accept the fact that we cannot just "cut" our way out of this mess in terms of discretionary spending or a repeal of Obamacare -- it's going to take major Social Security and Medicare reform, and there isn't an appetite for that...yet.

I'm a pessimist about this stuff, and I really do believe it's going to take either a nationwide meltdown or (as Kent Conrad, of all people, said) a bipartisan consensus of legislators who are consciously willing to commit political suicide. The latter doesn't seem likely, so the former is what I'm banking on.

Posted by: Jeff B. at March 03, 2011 07:20 PM (NjYDy)

107
"I'd almost say give them back their collective bargaining rights, but keep everything else in the bill."
You miss the point. If they keep the collective bargaining rights Walker wants to take back the local governments will not have the descretion to substantially deal with their budget defecits. The 'rights' you would be willing to take off the table are the most critical part of the reform. They are the tools that will enable true reform!

Posted by: AwesomeTicket at March 03, 2011 07:20 PM (d+eeq)

108 It's past time to do this. If you are worried about court cases later
then bring up an almost identical bill when they Dems are back and pass
it then. But this passivity in the face of lawlessness is getting a bit
ridiculous.

Yeah, it's time for Walker to grow a pair. He's got to got to get tough with these effeminate Democrats (sorry, repeating myself). For God's sake, Walker, do something.

Posted by: RickS at March 03, 2011 07:21 PM (Kogrf)

109 And yes, Greg was banned Election Night and should remain so.

Posted by: logprof at March 03, 2011 07:21 PM (BP6Z1)

110 Walker's talking now about "reaching out" to the Dems, lol.

Oh, no! You mean, he's pretending to be open to compromise?
You lost the election, big boy. The not-a-wave one. You got slaughtered in Wisconsin. And it's now time to take your medicine cock in themouth.

Posted by: Warden at March 03, 2011 07:21 PM (mfZ9a)

111
Jeff, many Americans don't seem to be able to grasp what dire financial circumstances our country is in. we can't even seem to get that message out.

Most people have no comprehension of what a rigged game PUBLIC SECTOR collective bargaining really is. People really need to be educated on the difference between public and private sector collective bargaining.

Posted by: AwesomeTicket at March 03, 2011 07:23 PM (d+eeq)

112 From Politico:


As the standoff between unions and Wisconsin Republicans wages on, an
analysis of the nation’s 10 largest labor unions shows some top leaders
— who are being derided as “union bosses” — make six-figure salaries
funded by members’ dues.
Leaders earned between $173,000 and
$618,000 at major unions, the Center for Public Integrity found in
examining 2009 tax records, with some groups paying dozens of employees
in the six figures. At the three major unions , which together represent
more than 5.6 million public workers, presidents’ salaries in 2009
ranged between $400,000 and $500,000.
Gerald McEntee, president
of the American Federation of State, County and Municipal Employees, was
paid $479,328 in salary and benefits in 2009. He was one of 10
employees of the 1.5 million-member union who made more than $200,000
that year.
At the 3.2 million-member National Education
Association, President Dennis Van Roekel made $397,721 in salary and
benefits in 2009. Thirty other officers and employees of the nation’s
largest teachers’ union made more than $200,000 that year. Public school
teachers, by comparison, were paid a national average of $54,319 in
2009.
The American Federation of Teachers, a smaller teachers’
union, paid President Randi Weingarten $428,384 in salary and benefits.
Eight others at the 887,000-member union, which also represents college
faculty and school support staff, earned more than $200,000 in 2009.

Again....it's Politico http://tinyurl.com/5udthd9

Posted by: Tami at March 03, 2011 07:24 PM (VuLos)

113 This is all Bush's fault.

Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2011 07:25 PM (4XEga)

114 I agree it will likely end up a national meltdown. our reps should care more about american stability than power. both sides.

Posted by: willow at March 03, 2011 07:25 PM (h+qn8)

115 >>ergastularius (a fish)

Or

Ergastula a Roman building where slaves were kept in chains.

Rius a Mexican political cartoonist known for extreme left wing, Marxist views. He even wrote a book, Marx for Beginners.

erg is a very proud Marxist who considers himself an intellectual and thinks his various nom de blogs are the height of wit. He loses every argument which is why he rarely engages in any.

Too bad, it's fun to beat him about the head.

Posted by: JackStraw at March 03, 2011 07:26 PM (TMB3S)

116 I think at this point it is about who has the biggest balls and who is willing to go the distance. If they cave and let the dems decide then we lose. This is the hill to die on in regards to the unions. I only hope Walker is strong enough to do it.

Posted by: gesc at March 03, 2011 07:27 PM (pcWke)

117 Keep "union-busting" and  watch how fast all of those white middle-class independents desert the GOP.

Wow! So what you're saying is, you're a CONSERVATIVE, but only as long as you can get your way and keep reaching in MY pocket and reserve your "right" to throw a hissy fit and play hooky, costing everyone else MORE money.

Yeah, I'm gonna pass on your advice. Alternatively, suck a cock, concernfag.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 03, 2011 07:27 PM (1zgwP)

118 i wasn't enmored of public union busting until the police turned .. they seem to work for the union and their own fortunes than the stability of the country.

Posted by: willow at March 03, 2011 07:28 PM (h+qn8)

119 I am a conservative. I have four close teacher friends who are very religious and socially conservative. All of them consistently vote Republican. They WON'T BE VOTING GOP in 2012. Don't believe me? All of you have friends who are cops, firefighters, or public school teachers. Ask them how they feel about the Grand Ole' Party right about now.
That's exactly the point. There's more of us - in the private sector - than there are of them. And, as the uneducated among us become wise as to the damage that collective bargaining in the public sector does to the taxpayer - there will be more of a pushback against the unions than you are seeing now. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow - but soon. And for the rest of your life.

Posted by: Marla at March 03, 2011 07:28 PM (kD8Fh)

120 Our Governor Snyder(MI) is taking a serious polls hit for his budget proposal, everybody is gettting hit and it is the typical all well and good till it affects citizen x directly. If people can not get that thru their head that the party is over and time to shut the music off and pick up the after party mess...we are boned

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 03, 2011 07:28 PM (FIDMq)

121 another master !

Posted by: willow at March 03, 2011 07:29 PM (h+qn8)

122 >>People may not love unions, but they are generally supportive of the right to collectively bargain.

There is no right to collectively bargain.

Posted by: Dr Spank at March 03, 2011 07:29 PM (4ZxEW)

123 Union busting = energized Democratic base + bad politics

Posted by: stickety

No change in public sector contracts = bond collapse = 20 year depression.

Pardon us while we insist our leaders act like adults rather than enabling statists riding this handbasket down the shitter.

Posted by: goldbricker esq at March 03, 2011 07:29 PM (S59+B)

124 You know, if I let my kid's opinion keep me from giving him the medicine he needs...

Posted by: nickless at March 03, 2011 07:30 PM (MMC8r)

125
Posted by: stickety at March 03, 2011 07:20 PM (FUDwf)
Do you even understand what the difference between public and private sector collective bargaining? Public sector collective bargaining is a rigged game. Educate yourself here:
http://tinyurl.com/4hpeaeg

Posted by: AwesomeTicket at March 03, 2011 07:30 PM (d+eeq)

126 I am a public school teacher. I am a conservative. I have four close
teacher friends who are very religious and socially conservative. All
of them consistently vote Republican. They WON'T BE VOTING GOP in 2012.
Don't believe me? All of you have friends who are cops,
firefighters, or public school teachers. Ask them how they feel about
the Grand Ole' Party right about now.Keep "union-busting" and watch how fast all of those white middle-class independents desert the GOP.

Those white, middle-class independents pay your salary, health care and pension, chump. Keep budget busting and see how long you and your pals have a gig. The only chance I get to collectively baragin with unions is on election day. Why should you be any different?

Have the Concern Trolls unionized?

Posted by: Bloome at March 03, 2011 07:31 PM (IB7Vu)

127 Ask them how they feel about the Grand Ole' Party right about now.

I'll ask the question again. If this is so bad for the Republicans, why don't the Democrats return, get outvoted, and then crush the Repubs in '12?

Posted by: pep at March 03, 2011 07:31 PM (P18+/)

128 Actually, one concrete good that has already come of this WI meltdown is that it distracted from what John Kasich was doing in Ohio. He just managed to pass a very similar bill through the OH legislature (on a razor-thin vote in the Senate) and will presumably sign it sometime next week. Ohio will become the first state to strip its public employees of collective bargaining rights during the current kerfuffle.

Posted by: Jeff B. at March 03, 2011 07:32 PM (NjYDy)

129 If people can not get that thru their head that the party is over and time to shut the music off and pick up the after party mess...we are boned
Posted by: Red Shirt at March 03, 2011 07:28 PM (FIDMq)

That's my worst concern. Deep down inside me I think that this whole mess is going to have to burn to the ground. It just can't hold itself up anymore. The public schools have done their job in keeping everyone stupid.

Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2011 07:33 PM (4XEga)

130 Good for Kasich. We got a seal here...and a seal here...and then we RUN IT UP THE MIDDLE!

Posted by: The Fucking Power Sweep. Biatch! at March 03, 2011 07:33 PM (IB7Vu)

131 stickety, how do YOU feel about the fact Police did not stand clear and do THEIR JOB? conflict.

Posted by: willow at March 03, 2011 07:34 PM (h+qn8)

132 @stickety
ok troll. I don't believe you. Your hardcore republican friends will vote democrat, who more far left than ever, just cause we want them to pay into their bennies. liar.
Oh and greg, Senator Schultz caved on day one, all other repubs still stand firm.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at March 03, 2011 07:37 PM (c5RQr)

133 Since you public teachers are so fond of collective bargaining, how about collective evaluation?

Fuck ALL of you. You do a shit job and are paid too much. That includes you, too, Mom.

You need to be fired and compete for jobs and quit your fucking whining.

COLLECTIVELY.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 03, 2011 07:38 PM (1zgwP)

134 Phase I- near completion.
Phase II- Break the fucking private sector unions like the fucking rotten ergs they are.

Posted by: Barbarian at March 03, 2011 07:38 PM (EL+OC)

135 That's my worst concern. Deep down inside me I think that this whole mess is going to have to burn to the ground. It just can't hold itself up anymore. The public schools have done their job in keeping everyone stupid.
Posted by: Soona at March 03, 2011 07:33 PM (4XEga)
People are all rah rah, yeah cuts, but when their pension gets taxed or such and such tax break is axed...hell no bitches, not while Im still breathing. Nobody is willing to take the haircut. People just continue to think that the money is neverending and why its such a big deal now, we've always run at a deficit right? Lord help us all

Posted by: Red Shirt at March 03, 2011 07:39 PM (FIDMq)

136
Don't believe me? All of you have friends who are cops, firefighters, or public school teachers. Ask them how they feel about the Grand Ole' Party right about now.They were not Republicans before..why would they change now...moron.

Posted by: AwesomeTicket at March 03, 2011 07:41 PM (d+eeq)

137 MADISON (WKOW) -- The crowd of
protesters at the Capitol tonight are being told that a recent court
order will ask them to evacuate.
They are being told that protesters who do not leave the Capitol tonight will face the possibility of arrest.
The crowd is chanting "please stand down."-------Since when do court orders 'ask' someone to do something?

Posted by: Tami at March 03, 2011 07:43 PM (VuLos)

138 The stupid party should just do it already.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at March 03, 2011 07:46 PM (qqrPQ)

139 Greg, I see your butt finally healed from that ass-whipping you took in Nov. Back for another round?
I know you're not from Wis. because you don't know Walker. He's the kind to have a little tear in his eye as he blows your brains out. We here in SE Wis. have watched him do this for a decade now. Do not take comfort in polls. Most of them are useless.

Posted by: bigred at March 03, 2011 07:47 PM (cX9pO)

140 Greg's been quiet. Wonder if the re-banning went through.

Posted by: logprof at March 03, 2011 07:52 PM (BP6Z1)

141 Greg's been quiet. Wonder if the re-banning went through.

Posted by: logprof at March 03, 2011 07:52 PM (BP6Z1)
You of all people should know, nothing happens that quickly around here.

Posted by: Tami at March 03, 2011 07:56 PM (VuLos)

142 . I am a public school teacher. I am a conservative. I have four close teacher friends who are very religious and socially conservative. All of them consistently vote Republican. They WON'T BE VOTING GOP in 2012. Honestly? They can suck a fat dick.
If we're going to get out of this mess, this MUST be done. Public employees can nolonger be allowed to buy off politicians who are happy to steal from the taxpayers on the union's behalf.
We can't afford it. This debt is threatening to crush us all--you, me, grandma, grandpa, the kids... everyone.
So if your friends want to be a bunch of selfish, immature, ignorant little twats about it and vote Democrat, Idon't give a fuckbecause if we don't get a handle on this it won't matter anyway.

Posted by: Warden at March 03, 2011 07:57 PM (X9C8M)

143 Christie was behind in the PR battle as well, until he began taking his message to the people. Now his approval is 4 points higher than what won him election.
Walker hasn't lost anything because the battle has just begun.
I agree. Same thing happened when Engler modified welfare in MI. The libs all screamed...... then Engler was easily reelected for a second term. Walker's battle has just begun. There are polls of registered voters that show the people support Walker. Polls that survey "the public" are always left leaning. I'm glad so many libs are irresponsible so that they don't bother to vote. ;-)

Posted by: carolina at March 03, 2011 08:09 PM (wCa6s)

144 Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 03, 2011 07:38 PM (1zgwP)

Something wound you up!

I LIKE it!

Posted by: CharlieBrown'sDildo (NJConservative) at March 03, 2011 08:12 PM (LH6ir)

145 Those white, middle-class independents pay your salary, health care and pension, chump. Keep budget busting and see how long you and your pals have a gig. The only chance I get to collectively baragin with unions is on election day. Why should you be any different?
Yep. And the polls of registered voters have a 60%+ that govt union workers are paid TOO MUCH. The tax payers pay attention to where their tax $$ are going. Tax payers have had ENOUGH!

Posted by: carolina at March 03, 2011 08:13 PM (wCa6s)

146 49
Greg: Do you have the votes? No? Then stick the poll in your ass.


Posted by: SurferDoc at March 03, 2011 06:52 PM (o3bYL)
No, wrap it around a great big pineapple and cram the whole thing up your ass sideways. I am a public school teacher. I am a conservative. I have four
close teacher friends who are very religious and socially conservative.
All of them consistently vote Republican. They WON'T BE VOTING GOP in
2012. ...and if they're, or YOU for that matter, are at least competent in you job, why all the bitching and moaning??? Most of the people in this country earn (look that word up) their pay based on their ability and work ethics (look that up while yer at it). Y'all are special?? You afraid to get paid for what you're worth??Honestly? They can suck a fat dick.

This!

Posted by: Portnoy at March 03, 2011 08:17 PM (azgo2)

147 I hope you never stop! This is one of the best blogs Ive ever read. Youve got some mad skill here, man. I just hope that you dont lose your style because youre definitely one of the coolest bloggers out there. Please keep it up because the internet needs someone like you spreading the word.

Posted by: Download Kinect Dance Central at March 03, 2011 08:17 PM (FAU0y)

148 "Greg, I see your butt finally healed from that ass-whipping you took in
Nov. Back for another round?"

I love having my ass whipped!

Posted by: Greg at March 03, 2011 08:17 PM (A0Q4i)

149 You need to be fired and compete for jobs and quit your fucking whining.





COLLECTIVELY.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at March 03, 2011 07:38 PM (1zgwP)
I listened to two teachers whining on the news today about the upcoming budget battles in my county. The teachers rep told the supervisors that "the budget is a MORAL document, and you need to remember that when you decide".[wth- isn't a budget a FINANCIAL plan?!?] and the other harridan groused about having to "grade papers on a Sunday". Oh, the horror of not having a 9-5, M-F, 12 month/year job! Oh, wait, never mind that 12 month thing.

Posted by: Museisluse at March 03, 2011 08:21 PM (u/Nbu)

150 I was closer in my predictions than most everyone here.
Still got your ass whipped.
Don't make the mistake of thinking Madistan and the inner city of Milwaukee make up the whole state.

Posted by: bigred at March 03, 2011 08:22 PM (cX9pO)

151 "the budget is a MORAL document, and you need to remember that when you decide"

Gee, I thought we couldn't legislate morality.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 03, 2011 08:23 PM (T0NGe)

152 $120k/year School Administrators of the World Unite!!

Posted by: eggamoobymuffin on the barricades at March 03, 2011 08:24 PM (V3oeJ)

153 Don't make the mistake of thinking Madistan and the inner city of Milwaukee make up the whole state
Yep. The dems have their inner-city echo chambers. They lose all understanding of the rest of the folks.

Posted by: carolina at March 03, 2011 08:27 PM (wCa6s)

154 ] and the other harridan groused about having to "grade papers on a Sunday".
Well bitch, let me tell you what I did most Sundays. Drove about 500-600 miles delivering 53' trailers to 3,4, even 5 stores, sometimes in falling snow or minus ten degree temps or 90+ temps with the airconditioner not working. Wanna trade? No? Didn't think so. Also for about or less money you make in nine months
Suck it.

Posted by: bigred at March 03, 2011 08:29 PM (cX9pO)

155
Cure Hemorrhoid Tips
forex child play review

I'll personally kick in for those if the fleebaggers will return and do their fucking jobs.

Posted by: George Orwell at March 03, 2011 08:31 PM (AZGON)

156 I spent last night in a fingercuffs with Tim Cullen and Tim Carpenter!

Posted by: Greg at March 03, 2011 08:38 PM (A0Q4i)

157 And his sample had a higher number of union households than the state average. We'll need a few more polls to see. His first poll had Walker winning, as did John Zogby, who is a hard Democrat, but pretty honest.

Posted by: bigred at March 03, 2011 08:41 PM (cX9pO)

158 The election surveyed the entire state. The reuslts are what they are. Partisans tools (on both sides of your family) are the chamber pots.

Posted by: The Power Sweep at March 03, 2011 08:43 PM (IB7Vu)

159 Ras was terribly sloppy this time, here was his question:
"11* Do you favor or oppose a proposal to weaken the collective bargaining rights of state employees?"

What
he should have done was simply describe what was being done: collective
bargaining was ended for benefits but continued for salaries. How would
the poll have gone then?

Posted by: AmishDude at March 03, 2011 08:45 PM (T0NGe)

160 stikety needs to ask his friends, if they like who their unions have put into power, if they enjoy the financial hits the country has taken , so they enjoy fraud and pay to play schemes, do they like knowing if they are GOPrs the fact that their votes don't matter, the powerul union heads decide for them with their dues.they enjoy Paying for politicians that say get bloody? Teachers have walked out on their students and took them to demonstrations?They don't care as long as They get theirs? The Police whom we have stood by, admired and lifted up through rhetorical hard times have disobeyed law for political reasons? and you guys want our support?

Posted by: willow at March 03, 2011 08:50 PM (h+qn8)

161 aaaaaaaaand we're broke~

Posted by: willow at March 03, 2011 08:50 PM (h+qn8)

162 "11* Do you favor or oppose a proposal to weaken the collective bargaining rights of state employees?"

What
he should have done was simply describe what was being done: collective
bargaining was ended for benefits but continued for salaries. How would
the poll have gone then?

Posted by: AmishDude at March 03, 2011 08:45 PM (T0NGe)
--Wow, collective bargaining "rights." That's not a loaded question.

Posted by: logprof at March 03, 2011 08:51 PM (BP6Z1)

163 I agree that "rights" is a loaded word and influences the results.

But Rasmussen also asked who's side the public was on in the budget deficit battle and the Dems won over Gov Walker by a 52-44 percent margin. That was a straightforward question with no loaded words to influence the result.

The PR war is lost for Gov Walker.

Posted by: Greg at March 03, 2011 08:57 PM (A0Q4i)

164 The PR war is lost for Gov Walker.

Posted by: Greg at March 03, 2011 08:57 PM (A0Q4i)
Gee, then he'll lose and his bill will be overturned by the next governor. Unless...

Posted by: AmishDude at March 03, 2011 09:02 PM (T0NGe)

165 Gweggie, was that the same people from the union poll? If it was, BOGUS.

Posted by: bigred at March 03, 2011 09:05 PM (cX9pO)

166 The poll was weird. It had a plurality willing to give a 10% cut to public sector union employees. (44 to 39) I don't know why Greg doesn't focus on that.

Posted by: AmishDude at March 03, 2011 09:08 PM (T0NGe)

167 Yeah, Amish. That would cut them deeper than this bill.

Posted by: bigred at March 03, 2011 09:10 PM (cX9pO)

168 Gee-zus, ban that greg idiot and anyone who responds to him. What a waste of bandwidth.

Posted by: yakima canutt at March 03, 2011 09:19 PM (tXbf1)

169 "The poll was weird. It had a plurality willing to give a 10% cut to
public sector union employees. (44 to 39) I don't know why Greg
doesn't focus on that."

Because the whole point of this fight is collective bargaining. Gov Walker could have had those financial concessions. But he chose this battle (which was the right thing to do) and it backfired on him when he couldn't come up with a good messaging strategy.

Now he's lost public support for the entire budget battle. And there are 3-4 Senate squishes other than Dale Schultz that will look for a way out.

Posted by: Greg at March 03, 2011 09:23 PM (A0Q4i)

170 Thank you to whomever is spoofing Greg.

Begone, foul troll!

Posted by: logprof at March 03, 2011 10:00 PM (BP6Z1)

171 Now he's lost public support for the entire budget battle. And there
are 3-4 Senate squishes other than Dale Schultz that will look for a way
out.

I call bullshit. Produce your evidence of senate squishes apart from Schultz. You've been talking out your ass this entire thread.

Posted by: youngjim at March 03, 2011 10:35 PM (lj0/W)

172 pep @ you mean won-won or won like the new black panther case?

Posted by: Rob in Katy at March 03, 2011 10:58 PM (PiTBB)

173 Don't believe me? All of you have friends who are cops,
firefighters, or public school teachers. Ask them how they feel about
the Grand Ole' Party right about now.

Only 20% of unions vote Republican to begin with.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 04, 2011 09:40 AM (mHQ7T)

174 Someone somewhere linked this guy bitch-slapping Salon's Joan Walsh
about polling in favor of unions v. Scott Walker. It's pretty awesome.



... you’ll recall that I questioned her on her article interpreting
matters in Wisconsin trending in favor of the unions. She then asked
for proof, and I said watch the polls.

So this afternoon, she confronted me with the evidence: a piece on some PPP (Democrat) polling, laced with a bit of Dick Morris:

Joan: For @vermontaigne: Even Dick Morris poll finds 54% of WI voters oppose Walker’s moves. And most wouldn’t re-elect him.



@joanwalsh @vermontaigne Joan–you’re a liar. The Morris poll was 51% vs. 47% FOR the govenor with a margin of +-4%. Lying twit!



RT @jddickson: @joanwalsh Joan–you’re a liar. The Morris poll was 51%
vs. 47% FOR the govenor with a margin of +-4%.|Just doesn’t read well.



Joan: I’m a liar? From Morris: On issue of limiting collective bargaining to
wages/benefits they oppose Gov 41-54.@jddickson @vermontaigne



@joanwalsh You insinuate that Morris’ poll says most wouldn’t re-elect. Nope. It’s PPP.



@vermontaigne It was not a deliberate attempt to mislead. @joanwalsh was
typing too fast. Can you say “projection? http://bit.ly/hX0oHc



Link leads to–Joan: Dropped a few words from an Obama quote typing too fast. #tcot says
it was a deliberate attempt to mislead. Can you say “projection?”

[#tcot is "top conservatives on Twitter"]

@sirfith And I defended her from that accusation. Now if only @joanwalsh will withdraw her accusation that I posed as a Badger.

@joanwalsh BTW, ever figure out whether I’m from Wisconsin, or not? If
you do, let me know. These implanted memories are so realistic.

1. By presenting opposition to limiting collective bargaining as “opposing Walker’s moves,” @joanwalsh elides the following:

2. • By 74-18, [Wisconsinites] back making state employees pay more for their health insurance.

3. By 79-16, they support asking state workers contribute more toward their pensions.

4. By 54-34, Wisconsin voters support ending the automatic deduction of
union dues from state paychecks … collect dues from each member.

5. By 66-30, they back limiting state workers’ pay increases to the rate
of inflation unless voters approve a higher raise by referendum.

So here’s Joan Walsh getting all bent out of shape about our saying that
the tweet as written was deceptive, which it was, but she can’t be
bothered to acknowledge that she falsely accused me of lying yesterday. Because of the projection.


What a twat. Honey Badger don’t care, Joanie Baloney, because you
are a mendoucheous twatwaffle. Honey Badger’s all like, fuck you!

Then he hat tips rd brewer for the Honey Badger video.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 04, 2011 10:14 AM (mHQ7T)

175 178. Having grown up half-way between Walker and Ryan in SE WI and resided 4 decades, I can testify that WI has taken a strong Right turn and this Dimmi idiocy jambs the left heel on the accelerator.
Voter ID law will kill the 4500 fraud vote tally of 2008, essentially the margin in 2000, prior to reddening. Just left off 8 years with an imbecile Leftist as governor electing Republican governor, senator and both houses of legislature.

Posted by: gary gulrud at March 04, 2011 12:14 PM (/g2vP)

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dtiblog

Posted by: seo at March 04, 2011 09:24 PM (9+2VW)

177 179. I wish the WI Republicans had started passing all kinds of legislation that the Democratts hate like conceal carry and voter ID. Maybe they wanted to stick to the issue at hand, which is a winner for them. A friend of mine who grew up in Madison confirmed what you said during the midterms when Russ Feingold was up for reelection. I said, "He'll probably make it. The President campaigned for him." My friend said his parents cursed the guy's name.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at March 05, 2011 09:41 AM (mHQ7T)

178 Hey, I'm studying English in Poland and we have to make a news every week about current affairs in the USA , and I would like to focus on this case, but I have problems with the whole thing. Why Walker could pass the bill without a quorum? How was he able to evade the law? Please, help me with this, thanks

Posted by: karolina at March 13, 2011 06:06 AM (V35LN)

179 Latex Clothingpvc clothingspiderman costumesspiderman suitspiderman zentaizentai suitzentai suitsYeast Infection TreatmentChristian LouboutinChristian LouboutinChristian LouboutinChristian Louboutin Shoes

Posted by: christianlouboutin at March 16, 2011 09:45 AM (Z2MYm)

180 FLV converter is such a FLV Video Converter that can convert FLV to AVI, FLV to WMV, FLV to MPEG, MOV, DivX, Xvid, 3GP, MP3, WMA, ASF. FLV to mpgFLV to MOVFLV to xvidFLV to Divxflv to rm

Posted by: jj at May 11, 2011 11:04 PM (Df/nW)






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