Iranian Mullahs Begin Blocking BBC Persia News Feed, Apparently Not Wanting Their Citizens To See What's Going on In Egypt

The mullahs were cheerleading for this, hoping that a radical, anti-western terrorist claque could take charge in Egypt. That could still happen, obviously. Maybe that's even the way to bet.

But as much as Iran encourages revolution abroad, of course, they fear it at home.

So they don't want their citizens to get the idea that maybe this twice-repeated model is good for a third go.

Via Hot Air, there's more: Bush, not Obama, was forward-leaning on democratization and liberalization in Egypt, while Obama took his typical position of comforting the comfortable dictators.

As ably covered by the Washington Post’s Fact Checker – and former State Department reporter – Glenn Kessler, the Obama administration was far more quiet on the need for Egypt to engage in serious political reform, at least publicly, than the Bush administration.

Perhaps more glaringly, while the Bush administration tried to directly fund civil society in Egypt – pro-democracy groups and the like – the Obama administration changed that policy and cut funding significantly, ending an effort to provide direct funding to democracy groups not “approved” by the Egyptian government, and reduced funding in the budget for programs to promote civil society groups.

As Kessler writes: Bush’s final budget “proposed spending $45 million on democracy and good-governance programs in Egypt, including more than $20 million on promoting civil society…But that nascent effort was largely shelved when the Obama administration took office. For fiscal year 2009, the administration immediately halved the money for democracy promotion in Egypt; the civil society funds were slashed 70 percent, to $7 million. Meanwhile, money that was to be given directly to civil society groups was eliminated and the administration agreed to once again fund only those institutions that had Mubarak's seal of approval.”

More at Hot Air: The Swiss freeze Mubarak's accounts; an unnamed Democratic official emails Politico to say "Obama did it!;" and the military is apparently firing the cabinet and dissolving the parliament and will rule with the input of the chief justice of their supreme court.

I don't think any of that is anti-democratic, necessarily -- you can only be anti-democratic if you're taking action against a democracy, where here, there was none. Just window-dressing fake democracy. Whether this results in a democracy (and, more importantly: a republic where citizens' rights are guaranteed) is still unknown, and very unlikely.

But who cares if their was an unconstitutional coup against and unconstitutional tyrant? Freedom and democracy weren't harmed here, as they weren't at the party at all.

Posted by: Ace at 01:54 PM



Comments

1 Maybe send the Google Execs to Tehran to stir up some shit?

Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2011 01:56 PM (6WmVb)

2 Preznit Learning Curve is about to blather on....and on....and on.....about how awesome he is and stuff.

Posted by: Jane D'oh, sez save logprof and nickless at February 11, 2011 01:57 PM (UOM48)

3 a/s/l?

Posted by: CoolCzech at February 11, 2011 01:58 PM (tJjm/)

4 But who cares if their was an unconstitutional coup against and unconstitutional tyrant? Freedom and democracy weren't harmed here, as they weren't at the party at all.
What about here?
Meddling in the Constitutional Functions of a Foreign Sovereign is not what Barack does best.

Posted by: Honduras at February 11, 2011 01:58 PM (6WmVb)

5 Maybe send the Google Execs to Tehran to stir up some shit?
Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2011 01:56 PM (6WmVb)

It's only American Allies who have their hand's tied when dealing with trouble makers. In Iran and Syria they find themselves hanging from a big crane or tree or looking at their heads sitting on their chests.

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 01:58 PM (0GFWk)

6 Let me be clear, Iran is exactly where it needs to be. Now, give me a little time and I and my minions will have Egypt falling into line as well.

*dammit, where's my cigs?*

Posted by: Preznit Sand Trap at February 11, 2011 01:59 PM (UOM48)

7 But doesn't Barky WANT Egypt to go after Israel? I'm pretty sure that's what all the bowing and scraping was for. Can we impeach him NOW, can we?

Posted by: tcn at February 11, 2011 02:00 PM (DjPot)

8 Democracy is great and all but majority rule without minority rights is a recipe for oppression.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 11, 2011 02:01 PM (45DBC)

9 2 Preznit Learning Curve is about to blather on....and on....and on.....about how awesome he is and stuff.
Posted by: Jane D'oh, sez save logprof and nickless at February 11, 2011 01:57 PM (UOM4

The man has NOTHING valid to say about Egypt. Not a damned thing. He is the ultimate clueless bystander.

I love how the Dems are trying to spin his incompetence into "brilliance." Of course no one can say what will happen to Egypt next... I suspect the military will more or less preserve the status quo. But if true democracy by some chance takes hold, we all know George W. Bush will have been utterly vindicated in his approach to push democracy in the Middle East.

Posted by: CoolCzech at February 11, 2011 02:01 PM (tJjm/)

10 I'm gonnaopen with a 'Schuck' then I'm gonna segue into a 'Jive'...Then I'm gonna bring it all home and just 'Run Amok' until they are all 'Bamboozled' by my One-ness.
The I'll hit the 'Prompter and Speechify.
Go Orunj!

Posted by: Barack Hussein Obama going over his choreography at February 11, 2011 02:01 PM (6WmVb)

Posted by: kidney at February 11, 2011 02:02 PM (ENRGu)

12
Reposting:

Witnesses say five people dead and 42 wounded in clashes between Egyptian protesters and police in northern Sinai - Reuters

That didn't take long. I'm sure Israel is ready.

Posted by: dagny: Free Logprof damnit! at February 11, 2011 02:04 PM (l3g1A)

13 Boy, Obama will stop at nothing to be re elected. "look at me, I'm Mr. Democracy.' "Bow before me." Hey Barry how about Cuba, and Venezuela next?

Posted by: Donna at February 11, 2011 02:04 PM (DhK9/)

14 Someone on another thread said Mark Steyn called President Learning Curve an idiot while he was on with Megyn.

Damn, I didn't think Mark could get any hotter. *fans self*

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:04 PM (UOM48)

15 If the Brothah-hood isn't going to win, maybe I better hold off on that speech...

Posted by: King Barry The Tut at February 11, 2011 02:04 PM (FcR7P)

16 But who cares if their was an unconstitutional coup against and
unconstitutional tyrant? Freedom and democracy weren't harmed here, as
they weren't at the party at all.

The problem here is not one of moving against freedom, democracy or constitutionality. It is one of moving against peace and stability. If the aftermath was known and a free and peaceful Egypt was the known outcome, that would be fine. That result feels unlikely to me.

Posted by: kidney at February 11, 2011 02:05 PM (ENRGu)

17 Whether this results in a democracy (and, more importantly: a republic
where citizens' rights are guaranteed) is still unknown, and very
unlikely.

It will be an Islamic Democracy!

And by "democracy" we mean "theocratic caliphate."

Posted by: The Muslim Brotherhood at February 11, 2011 02:05 PM (OKZrE)

18 Damn, I didn't think Mark could get any hotter. *fans self*
Hey that's what I said and I said it first! He's mine, mine, I say.

Posted by: dagny: Free Logprof damnit! at February 11, 2011 02:05 PM (l3g1A)

19 Barry had to postpone his speech because they had to wait for his Greek columns to arrive from storage.

Posted by: Donna at February 11, 2011 02:06 PM (DhK9/)

20 Obama is not a leader; he will swoop in to take credit at the drop of a hat though.

Posted by: Dr Spank at February 11, 2011 02:06 PM (45DBC)

21 Coptic Times

Posted by: Bad Brains at February 11, 2011 02:06 PM (6WmVb)

22 I'm thinking the delay is because they are already having trouble in the Sinai.
Way TO GO Barky!

Posted by: dagny: Free Logprof damnit! at February 11, 2011 02:06 PM (l3g1A)

23 Hey, watch this chip shot!

Posted by: SurferDoc at February 11, 2011 02:07 PM (o3bYL)

24 It will be an Islamic Democracy!And by "democracy" we mean "theocratic caliphate."

Sounds awesome! Can I be Caliph? I got Oprah going for me.

Posted by: Preznit Sand Trap at February 11, 2011 02:07 PM (UOM48)

25 One man, one vote, one time.

Posted by: Muslim Brotherhood (secular division) at February 11, 2011 02:07 PM (ENRGu)

26 You know what really sucks in all this (oppressed people who will most likely still remain oppressed aside), the fact that Obama is now going to be all "I won" and the MSM is going to spin themselves wildly so they can support this narrative. "Obama is a genius, he brought Democracy to an oppressed people"
Also, just curious, it's been several weeks since Tunisia succeeded in overthrowing their government, how are things going there? It is interesting that there hasn't been much coverage of it. I realize Egypt has been very newsworthy, but I wonder, are things not all skittles and unicorns in Tunisia and would that maybe be a slight indication of things to come in Egypt?

Posted by: ParanoidAnxietyGirlInSeattle at February 11, 2011 02:07 PM (RZ8pf)

27 On the upside, I'm guessing 50% of the 8 million coptic christians in Egypt immigrate to the US and Canada over the next 5 years.

Posted by: Ben-Free Logprof/nickless prisoners of conscience at February 11, 2011 02:07 PM (wuv1c)

28 Can we have Barry give the speech in Pharoah robes, with styrofoam Sphinxes at his side?

Posted by: t-bird at February 11, 2011 02:07 PM (FcR7P)

29 As I said earlier. Egypt will have a Democracy in Oreintation

Posted by: Ben-Free Logprof/nickless prisoners of conscience at February 11, 2011 02:08 PM (wuv1c)

30 It's a sand trap, Barry!

Posted by: Admiral Akbar at February 11, 2011 02:09 PM (FcR7P)

31 Hey that's what I said and I said it first! He's mine, mine, I say.


Posted by: dagny: Free Logprof damnit! at February 11, 2011 02:05 PM (l3g1A)

I'm willing to share.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:09 PM (UOM48)

32 Boy the Profs at the University of Chicago Archaelogy / Egyptology Department must be feeling...conflicted.

Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2011 02:09 PM (6WmVb)

33 I'm thinking the delay is because they are already having trouble in the Sinai.

Way TO GO Barky!

Posted by: dagny: Free Logprof damnit! at February 11, 2011 02:06 PM (l3g1A)

They are killing each other. What's the problem with that?

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 02:09 PM (0GFWk)

34 I heard something on the radio news about thousands of Tunisians going to Italy?

The speech was pushed back again. Did they run out of batteries for the teleprompter?

Posted by: curious at February 11, 2011 02:09 PM (p302b)

35 Can we have Barry give the speech in Pharoah robes, with styrofoam
Sphinxes at his side?

Ha! Wouldn't it be great if he just grew more and more outrageous until he became the black Liberace?!

Posted by: kidney at February 11, 2011 02:09 PM (ENRGu)

36 Can we have Barry give the speech in Pharoah robes, with styrofoam Sphinxes at his side?
Posted by: t-bird at February 11, 2011 02:07 PM (FcR7P)
That's what's taking so long with his self congratulations speech. It's hard out there for a sphinx carver.

Posted by: robtr nickless liberation front at February 11, 2011 02:10 PM (hVDig)

37 28
Can we have Barry give the speech in Pharoah robes, with styrofoam Sphinxes at his side?


Nooooooooooo! Do you really want to see Moochelle dressed as Cleopatra??

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:10 PM (UOM48)

38 >>> Can we have Barry give the speech in Pharoah robes, with styrofoam Sphinxes at his side?
Paging Dr. Slublog to Photoshop
Paging Dr. Slublog to Photoshop

Posted by: Roadking at February 11, 2011 02:10 PM (JzKy8)

39 On the upside, I'm guessing 50% of the 8 million coptic christians in
Egypt immigrate to the US and Canada over the next 5 years.
Unfortunately, either they won't have the resources to leave or they'll be sequestered in Egypt to live out the rest of their lives under dhimmmi rule.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at February 11, 2011 02:11 PM (9hSKh)

40 Yes, it will be an Islamic Democracy, and you can vote for this Iman, or that Iman!

Posted by: MohBros at February 11, 2011 02:11 PM (AdK6a)

41 CNBC has some London school of economics guy on. Sheesh I found myself wondering if he had read ace's post a couple of days back, he sure sounded like he did.

Posted by: curious at February 11, 2011 02:11 PM (p302b)

42 IsOgabe Igoing to float down the Potomac on a Barge to this speech?

Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2011 02:11 PM (6WmVb)

43 It's going to be interesting to see Obama put on the happy face for military control of the government.

Posted by: robtr nickless liberation front at February 11, 2011 02:11 PM (hVDig)

44 Hey that's what I said and I said it first! He's mine, mine, I say.
Posted by: dagny: Free Logprof damnit! at February 11, 2011 02:05 PM (l3g1A)

I'm willing to share.
Oh my.

Posted by: Roadking at February 11, 2011 02:12 PM (JzKy8)

45 Will the mullahs broadcast Barky's speech?

Oh yeah.. and when are the other world leaders gonna do their speeches claiming responsibility for ousting the evil dictator? Medvedev? Hu Jintao?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 11, 2011 02:12 PM (f9c2L)

46 Can we have Barry give the speech in Pharoah robes, with styrofoam Sphinxes at his side?
Slu - Don't forget the Crook and Flail!

Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2011 02:12 PM (6WmVb)

47 the military is apparently firing the cabinet and dissolving the
parliament and will rule with the input of the chief justice of their
supreme court.

Yep. The input of the chief justice. Show of hands of those who believe his input will be anything other than "Yes, I'll agree to whatever you want. Please to torture and kill my family!".

I'm sorry. Am I being more cynical than normal, today?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 11, 2011 02:12 PM (8y9MW)

48 Is it me or am I thinking that if I was a dictator in that neck of the wood i"m be crapping in my depends.

Posted by: curious at February 11, 2011 02:12 PM (p302b)

49 Obama's speech is delayed while the special effects department works out the bugs in the "parting the red sea" segment of his speech.

Posted by: ParanoidAnxietyGirlInSeattle at February 11, 2011 02:13 PM (RZ8pf)

50 80 million Egyptians freed faster than logprof and nickless.
Oh great pharoah MuNu, let my peeps go!

Posted by: Nash Rambler at February 11, 2011 02:13 PM (9IOHF)

51 Also, just curious, it's been several weeks since Tunisia succeeded in overthrowing their government, how are things going there?
Did a little search and the first thing that popped up is:
More than 1,000 people escaping turmoil in Tunisia have landed on an Italian island in rickety boats this week, raising fears of a new, uncontrolled wave of illegal immigration from North Africa.

Posted by: Mama AJ at February 11, 2011 02:13 PM (XdlcF)

52 Is Oprah going to stand next to Barky, giving us all a stern face, lest we mock Teh Won?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:13 PM (UOM48)

53 An old guy in my office told me that the first thing the mooola's did in I ran was to kill the military. So maybe, just for their own safety, they should keep track of anyone who is anti military?

Posted by: curious at February 11, 2011 02:14 PM (p302b)

54 We will not let this crisis go to waste.

Posted by: Muslim Brotherhood at February 11, 2011 02:15 PM (9Pzy7)

55 52
Is Oprah going to stand next to Barky, giving us all a stern face, lest we mock Teh Won?


Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:13 PM (UOM4
Maybe if she let her little pinko grow up before sending him down the river in a basket, he wouldn't be called an idiot on the most-watched news channel in America.

Posted by: grognard at February 11, 2011 02:15 PM (NS2Mo)

56 >>>Is Oprah going to stand next to Barky, giving us all a stern face, lest we mock Teh Won?
Maybe, but no one gives out the stern face like Michelle.I mean stern face is like her normal resting position.

Posted by: Roadking at February 11, 2011 02:15 PM (JzKy8)

57 Also, just curious, it's been several weeks since Tunisia succeeded in
overthrowing their government, how are things going there? It is
interesting that there hasn't been much coverage of it. I realize Egypt
has been very newsworthy, but I wonder, are things not all skittles and
unicorns in Tunisia and would that maybe be a slight indication of
things to come in Egypt?

Tunisia is now ruled by a unity government, headed by the former Primer Minister Mohammed Ghannouchi. Ghannouchi has sparred with protesters because he included some of the old guard in the government, but there hasn't been any large-scale outbreaks of unrest or violence.

There will be new Tunisian elections, but Ghannouchi hasn't announced a date yet. He'd better, if Egypt is any example of what'll happen if he doesn't placate the protesters.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at February 11, 2011 02:16 PM (9hSKh)

58 Preznit Learning Curve is about to blather on....and on....and on.....about how awesome he is and stuff.
Are we drinking when he says "hope" or "change"?
Or "I", "me" and "my" if we want to pass out after the first 2 minutes...

Posted by: Mama AJ at February 11, 2011 02:16 PM (XdlcF)

59 Hey that's what I said and I said it first! He's mine, mine, I say.


Posted by: dagny: Free Logprof damnit! at February 11, 2011 02:05 PM (l3g1A)

I'm willing to share.


Posted by: Jane D'oh



Heh. I hope the man is up to the task.

Posted by: Retread at February 11, 2011 02:16 PM (okCHU)

60 I don't think BO should make a speech now. I don't think he should say anything that might come back and bite him in the ass later.

Posted by: curious at February 11, 2011 02:16 PM (p302b)

61 Maybe if she let her little pinko
grow up before sending him down the river in a basket, he wouldn't be
called an idiot on the most-watched news channel in America.


Posted by: grognard at February 11, 2011 02:15 PM (NS2Mo)

This feels like a thread winner to me.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:17 PM (UOM48)

62 Go Down Moses

Posted by: Louis Armstrong at February 11, 2011 02:17 PM (6WmVb)

63 So, Iran is not happy with a secular revolution in Egypt and it was Bush who was the true supporter of freedom and democratic rule in the middle east. Now where have I heard that before?

Oh yeah, I've been saying it for 2 weeks now.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 11, 2011 02:17 PM (TMB3S)

64 >>>The problem here is not one of moving against freedom, democracy or constitutionality. It is one of moving against peace and stability. If the aftermath was known and a free and peaceful Egypt was the known outcome, that would be fine. That result feels unlikely to me.

I get the worry; I have it too.

My position is that I sort of need *something* to hang a little hope on and all I have is the Bush notion that democratic republics tend to be peaceful and not attack each other.

I don't know if I buy that. (It sounded good at the time; now I don't know.)

But I am looking for a bright side.

There is a little good here. People are worried about Israel. That's a concern. But as a general rule Islamists offer scapegoating for all of their problems. They blame Israel, they blame the US, they blame the British. They blame and blame others for their failures. And the crowds eat it up.

But in Egypt, the crowds are not shouting "destroy israel, that's our problem." They're affixing blame where it naturally should go -- to their government. That is a more grown-up posture than many Islamic communities have.

Since the country seems to get that it's not Israel that's causing their problems, but bad government, corruption, etc., there is room for hope they'll put their energies into useful areas instead of the typical bullshit about Great Satans and Foreign Agents.


Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 02:17 PM (nj1bB)

65 >>>Oh yeah, I've been saying it for 2 weeks now.

Well I said the first thing, about Iran, like immediately. So you ain't all that.

Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 02:18 PM (nj1bB)

66 >>Well I said the first thing, about Iran, like immediately. So you ain't all that.

I'm all that and a bag of chips.

Am I right, garrett?

Posted by: JackStraw at February 11, 2011 02:19 PM (TMB3S)

67 Why does anyone watch Oprah? What a waste of electricity and how many cubic tons of green house gases are thrown into the atmosphere to broadcast her bilge? Yo Winfrey do the earth a favor and just go away and take Captain Wonderful with you.

Posted by: Scarlet Pimperal at February 11, 2011 02:20 PM (By4wu)

68 Oh yeah, I've been saying it for 2 weeks now.
Even a headless Dhimmi is bound to be pointing at Mecca with something.

Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2011 02:20 PM (6WmVb)

69 So it's going to be an Islamic democracy. Big deal.

According to JackClapper in the other thread, Islam is largely tolerant of women.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at February 11, 2011 02:20 PM (9ytFL)

70 The Obama administration has been telling Mubarak what to do, telling the Egyptian military what to do, telling the protesters what to do.I would like to see some general hold a press conference and say "Who the fuck do you think you are?"
Posted by: Ace's liver at February 11, 2011 02:05 PM (QgI7g)
Hmmm... people in bondage in Egypt? Why does that sound familiar

Posted by: Moses at February 11, 2011 02:20 PM (AdK6a)

71 *cough* free logprof *cough*

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:20 PM (UOM48)

72 I don't think BO should make a speech now. I don't think he should say anything that might come back and bite him in the ass later.
Hey your kinda cute when you're like all concerned and stuff. I just can't help myself - it's whatI do - ya feeln' me?
Just sit back and relax whileI put my speech into you.

Posted by: Chaz Obama Obama at February 11, 2011 02:20 PM (JzKy8)

73 Posted by: Scarlet Pimperal at February 11, 2011 02:20 PM (By4wu)

To point and laugh?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 11, 2011 02:21 PM (8y9MW)

74 Hmmm... people in bondage in Egypt? Why does that sound familiar

Posted by: Moses at February 11, 2011 02:20 PM (AdK6a)
Need a hand, Shlomo?

Posted by: Ten Plagues at February 11, 2011 02:22 PM (LdYLm)

75 There were reports of the military assembling a military leadership council days ago and Barry Soetoro essentially opposed it. His speech on democracy doesn't exactly fit with encouraging a junta.

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at February 11, 2011 02:22 PM (VgM+c)

76 Fox just said that in about 1/2 hour ace is going to give a speech saying that he is going to free nickless and logprof.

Posted by: robtr nickless liberation front at February 11, 2011 02:23 PM (hVDig)

77 But in Egypt, the crowds are not shouting "destroy israel, that's our problem." They're affixing blame where it naturally should go -- to their government. That is a more grown-up posture than many Islamic communities have. To the avg. Egyptian Mubarak = America = Israel.
To be fair, Ace. You also declared Anti-Semitism a thing of the past a year and a haf (or so) ago.
Let's not start fucking each other's goats, just yet, gentlemen.

Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2011 02:23 PM (6WmVb)

78 >>According to JackClapper in the other thread, Islam is largely tolerant of women.

So you read the words "long intolerant" as meaning largely tolerant?

What color is the sky in your world?

Posted by: JackStraw at February 11, 2011 02:24 PM (TMB3S)

79 Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at February 11, 2011 02:22 PM (VgM+c)

What? President Barak Obama said one thing, but meant (and did) another? The Devil, you say.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 11, 2011 02:24 PM (8y9MW)

80
Oh noooooo.......Baghdad Bobby Gibbsy is giving his last presser today. Snif.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:24 PM (UOM48)

81 47 the military is apparently firing the cabinet and dissolving the parliament and will rule with the input of the chief justice of their supreme court.


That would be ME, bitches! How does my pharaonic ass taste now?

Posted by: Hosni Mubarak at February 11, 2011 02:24 PM (tJjm/)

82 Hoo boy. Alan Colmes is on with Megyn, just to get us in the "right" mood before Learning Curve speaks.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:25 PM (UOM48)

83 80
Oh noooooo.......Baghdad Bobby Gibbsy is giving his last presser today. Snif.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:24 PM (UOM4

Don't worry; he'll do a few more bj's for Obama before he leaves for good.

Posted by: CoolCzech at February 11, 2011 02:25 PM (tJjm/)

84 >>>To the avg. Egyptian Mubarak = America = Israel.

This is not what they're screaming about. They're not in Liberation Square over America or Israel.

And I'm not sucking goats yet. I'm just noting that while there's reason for doom and gloom there is also some reason to think this has a chance of coming off better for America and Israel than most think.

Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 02:26 PM (nj1bB)

85 @80 - That is sad. Now who will we ridicule mercilessly?

Please tell me that @81 is just joking, and that Mubarak didn't just "step down" into actual super-constitutional dictatorship.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 11, 2011 02:26 PM (8y9MW)

86 #77 To the avg. Egyptian Mubarak = America = Israel.

Weren't there protest signs of Mubarak with the Star of David on his forehead?

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at February 11, 2011 02:26 PM (9hSKh)

87 Baghdad Bobby Gibbsy is giving his last presser today. Snif.

Hmmm, maybe that's why Barky's victory speech is being delayed. He has to sober up.

Posted by: Retread at February 11, 2011 02:26 PM (okCHU)

88 @Egypt: Go Tut! Rooting 4 U all! LOL!!

Posted by: twitter.com/barry0 at February 11, 2011 02:27 PM (FcR7P)

89 >>> there is also some reason to think this has a chance of coming off better for America and Israel than most think.
I hope your right Ace.

Posted by: Chaz Obama Obama at February 11, 2011 02:27 PM (JzKy8)

90 Lord, I'd pay to see Megyn reach over and bitch-slap Colmes out of his chair. She could blame it on pregnancy hormones.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:27 PM (UOM48)

91 Oh, and Happy National African American/Black History Month, Everyone!

In honor of National African American/Black History Month, I will rent Steve Martin's The Jerk, about the life of a successful white businessman raised a poor black child.

I denounce myself.

Posted by: CoolCzech at February 11, 2011 02:28 PM (tJjm/)

92 wait so you are saying that the military is under hosni's direction and he will re emerge at the "right time?"

Posted by: curious at February 11, 2011 02:28 PM (p302b)

93 Good one, (6WmVb). As always.
Here's the thing. These "civil society" "reform" orgs that Obama's apparently less enthusiastic about than Bush was (MEPI/MENA/DRL/etc.) are all very bad shit. I don't think Obama knows that, or that he would think so if he gave it some consideration—they're his family business, actually—but he may have accidentally done something not-wrong there.
It's hard to explain why that's so without sounding insane, because everything that isn't common knowledge is a "conspiracy theory" on the same insanity level as JEWS DID 911. So I'll just say that if the situation in Egypt were that the Muslim Brotherhood and some State-funded "democratic" pseudo-movement were vying for power, it doesn't matter who wins—unless it's really important to you that the Caliphate be run by Ivy graduates instead of stinky-looking Ayatollah-beard guys.
Boned, I say.

Posted by: oblig. at February 11, 2011 02:28 PM (xvZW9)

94 That idiot Colmes just said he's "not worried about the Muslim Brotherhood."

Oh really? Hey, Alan. The MB just loves Jooos.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:29 PM (UOM48)

95 This is a milestone. It isn't Bush's fault!

Posted by: SurferDoc at February 11, 2011 02:30 PM (o3bYL)

96 94 That idiot Colmes just said he's "not worried about the Muslim Brotherhood."

That's because he lives in the United States.

Posted by: CoolCzech at February 11, 2011 02:30 PM (tJjm/)

97 I'm just noting that while there's reason for doom and gloom there is also some reason to think this has a chance of coming off better for America and Israel than most think.
With Mubarak gone, this will come.
You can't ignore the fact that these protests are more 'Flash Mob' than Revolution. Meaning, sponsored by google and the current administration. These protesters were given instructions on how to behave in front of the cameras.
I hope your search for the Silver Lining pays off. But it will be much harder to convince a consortium of Arab interests to see the bennefits of a positive relationship with the Jewish State, than it was an individual.
Especially when you have conceded a seat at the table to the Brotherhood.

Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2011 02:30 PM (6WmVb)

98 We are not worried about Alan Colmes.

Posted by: Muslim Brotherhood at February 11, 2011 02:30 PM (9Pzy7)

99 By the way, and I don't mean this in too bad a way, because people change their minds, of course, due to changing *facts.*

But remember in 2003? We were all like "Sure, the Middle East is *stable* in the sense that a sewer is stable."

And we were all like "Change is good, because what's here is awful and will just make more terrorists."

When people said "But you'll destabilize the whole Middle East," what did we say? We said "GOOD."

Where has that gone? Has that ALL gone? Most of it, or ALL of it?

Now I, like you (probably), am a little chagrined at my 2003 idealism, but I still think there is truth in that basic idea, and maybe more than a little.

Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 02:30 PM (nj1bB)

100 That idiot Colmes just said he's "not worried about the Muslim Brotherhood."Oh really? Hey, Alan. The MB just loves Jooos.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:29 PM (UOM4
Sure...what does he care...he's in NY. Hey Alan, can I send you to Cairo and see if you say the same thing?

Posted by: Tami-it appears Nickless (99.174.64.43) & logprof are hosed at February 11, 2011 02:31 PM (VuLos)

101 Fox reporter in the square. One of the protesters has a sign with "Mission Accomplished" on it!

Lib heads explode in 3....2.....

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:31 PM (UOM48)

102 She could blame it on pregnancy hormones.
Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:27 PM (UOM4

I thought she already popped a long time ago. How long does that shit last?

Posted by: CoolCzech at February 11, 2011 02:32 PM (tJjm/)

103 94
That idiot Colmes just said he's "not worried about the Muslim Brotherhood. Al Qaeda"
FTFY Alan. Way to "groundhog day" 9/10, over and over and over....

Maybe if you plug your ears and shout LALALALALA long enough, the scary muslims will go away, eh?

Posted by: grognard at February 11, 2011 02:32 PM (NS2Mo)

104 The speech is being held up because Obama is waiting for the latest assessment from Panetta. Unfortunately, CNN is in a commercial break.

Posted by: Nash Rambler at February 11, 2011 02:32 PM (9IOHF)

105 Anderson Cooper wasn't worried about the Egyptians either.. heh, heh!

Posted by: CoolCzech at February 11, 2011 02:32 PM (tJjm/)

106 'm just noting that while there's reason for doom and gloom there is also some reason to think this has a chance of coming off better for America and Israel than most think.

Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 02:26 PM (nj1bB)

And your drinking what exactly?

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 02:33 PM (0GFWk)

107 Weren't there protest signs of Mubarak with the Star of David on his forehead?
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at February 11, 2011 02:26 PM (9hSKh)
Yep. and quickly scrubbed, scrubbed, scrubbed away from the narrative.
btw - you are on top of your game these days. Thanks for the links.

Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2011 02:33 PM (6WmVb)

108 I thought she already popped a long time ago. How long does that shit last?







Posted by: CoolCzech at February 11, 2011 02:32 PM (tJjm/)

Number 2 is due in the spring.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:33 PM (UOM48)

109 Colmes followed by Barky may be more than I can take, without adult beverage anyway.

Posted by: Retread at February 11, 2011 02:33 PM (okCHU)

110 Sandmonkey retweeted this comment a few hours back:


The best part? He stepped down on the day dedicated to the martyrs. Their lives were not lost in vain. 11/2/2011


They're drunk now, wait until they sober up.

Every protester I saw interviewed there, when asked, "Who you want for a leader," replied, "I don't know"

Where do they go from here?

Posted by: LC LaWedgie at February 11, 2011 02:33 PM (93Qr2)

111 I thought she already popped a long time ago. How long does that shit last?
Posted by: CoolCzech at February 11, 2011 02:32 PM (tJjm/)
Another one on the way.

Posted by: Tami-it appears Nickless (99.174.64.43) & logprof are hosed at February 11, 2011 02:33 PM (VuLos)

112 Holy Felgercarb! NPR has an article up saying Bush was right? That just might be Flaming Skull Worthy.

President George W. Bush's Freedom Agenda was based on the notion that
around the world all men share the desire for liberty. It was our
founding fathers who put forth the idea that this was not merely a human
aspiration but a natural right, and it was the many generations of our
forefathers who fought for that right, both at home and abroad. The
Arabs had not been born with that privilege.

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at February 11, 2011 02:33 PM (VgM+c)

113 Ha! Wouldn't it be great if he just grew more and more outrageous until he became the black Liberace?!

You know, that might be only way that you could indeed make Teh Won tolerable to me.

Posted by: Shibumi at February 11, 2011 02:33 PM (OKZrE)

114 I'm willing to share.
Ok. But on alternate nights.

I thought she already popped a long time ago. How long does that shit last?
Bwahahahahahah
18 years

Posted by: dagny: Free Logprof damnit! at February 11, 2011 02:34 PM (l3g1A)

115 I'm taking over Egypt.

Posted by: The Scorpion King at February 11, 2011 02:34 PM (AXHCj)

116 ok, I just has a surreal conversation with a lib/dem who told me "it might be better if the bros took over as they would be easier for the US to deal with"...

and he was serious....

Posted by: curious at February 11, 2011 02:34 PM (p302b)

117 And I'm not sucking goats yet. I'm just noting that while there's
reason for doom and gloom there is also some reason to think this has a
chance of coming off better for America and Israel than most think.


I'm with you, Ace, I WANNA believe. I just remember cheering the "freedom" of the Russians and the tons of "democratic" movements that we have historically supported (Fidel) in the past only to have them blow up in our faces.
Anyway, at this point it is all "how many angels on the head of the pin".
Nothing but time will tell.


My prediction: Pain.




Posted by: kidney at February 11, 2011 02:35 PM (ENRGu)

118 Posted by: CoolCzech at February 11, 2011 02:32 PM (tJjm/)

Minimum of 2 years, if my wife is a representative sample.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 11, 2011 02:35 PM (8y9MW)

119 The people in the square are telling the Fox reporter they love the American people, not "the system".


Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:35 PM (UOM48)

120 Wow. Actual reporting going on at Fox. Guy in the square asking what they think of America.

Posted by: Retread at February 11, 2011 02:36 PM (okCHU)

121 Revolution Rock

Posted by: Tahrir Square Radio at February 11, 2011 02:36 PM (6WmVb)

122 MK-Ultra is just feeding into Irish stereotypes, God bless her.
I wouldn't be surprised if a third is on the way a year from now. What a woman

Posted by: The Q at February 11, 2011 02:36 PM (AXHCj)

123 119 The people in the square are telling the Fox reporter they love the American people, not "the system".So do we!

Posted by: The Q at February 11, 2011 02:37 PM (AXHCj)

124 Over at AM Joe today, they were in Chi-town, all patting themselves on the back for their "coverage" of the protests. Really? I thought Brian Williams hauled ass out of Egypt as soon as things got testy.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:37 PM (UOM48)

125 If the Military which is in control now, has been in control for the last 60 years, and wants to stay in control in the future is gonna do that succesfully is to throw the masses something to chew on. And that chew doll is gonna be Israel

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 02:37 PM (0GFWk)

126 122

MK-Ultra is just feeding into Irish stereotypes, God bless her.

I wouldn't be surprised if a third is on the way a year from now. What a woman

Posted by: The Q at February 11, 2011 02:36 PM (AXHCj)
If I was married to her I'd be 1000% as motivated as that Duggar fella seems to be.

Posted by: grognard at February 11, 2011 02:37 PM (NS2Mo)

127 The people in the square are telling the Fox reporter they love the American people, not "the system".
Geez the guy sounds like he's running for office or something.

Posted by: Roadking at February 11, 2011 02:38 PM (JzKy8)

128 Posted by: Shibumi at February 11, 2011 02:33 PM (OKZrE)

He would be faaaaabulous!
Posted by: kidney at February 11, 2011 02:35 PM (ENRGu)


I'd feel better if I believed this was mostly (or, at all) internally motivated instead of instigated. For the most part, the kind of Liberty and Freedom we want for people to have must come from within a given society.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 11, 2011 02:38 PM (8y9MW)

129 Well, I'm getting teary-eyed here for the people Fox is interviewing in the square.


Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:38 PM (UOM48)

130 123
119 The people in the square are telling the Fox reporter they love the American people, not "the system".
Fucking guy is quoting Obama!

Posted by: grognard at February 11, 2011 02:39 PM (NS2Mo)

131 Yes, rainbows will sprout over Egypt now, and unicorns will fly through the air as the birds sing.

When Harold Ickes, Sr., learned that FDR had struck a deal with Somoza, Sr., he was incensed. "But he's a son of a bitch!" he complained to Roosevelt.

Roosevelt replied, "So he is, Harold - but he is our son of a bitch!"

Before you and AP lift your Dom toasts in your little lace glovies with the pinkies cut out, remember 1979 started out pretty much this way.

Khomeini was adamant that he wanted NO political role at all. The inner circle he cultivated and brought back from France were secular intellectuals, exiles like himself, but who had been educated in the West. It was going to be a secular democracy, remember?

Posted by: Adjoran at February 11, 2011 02:39 PM (VfmLu)

132 Meanwhile over at the Fever Swamps the natives are beating the drums asking when are Americans going to take to the streets and...

75.That is why the US republican party must be eliminated. Pure and simple.

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at February 11, 2011 02:39 PM (VgM+c)

133 Oh oh! Leon Panetta just received reports that Mubarak has resigned...

Posted by: CoolCzech at February 11, 2011 02:39 PM (tJjm/)

134 Other reason for optimism: the army controlled this, grew in esteem with the public, and backed the winning horse.

And the army is Western-oriented.

Further, I really don't think the army is looking to get into a war with Israel. That doesn't mean they wouldn't if Egyptians get demogogued into Jew fever, but I'm almost sure the Egyptian army doesn't WANT to fight Israel.

Which would probably defeat it, and on top of that, you can't actually *beat* any nuclear armed state. You can do some stuff, you can harass them, but at the end of the day you cannot actually impose unconditional surrender on them. They have the nuclear trump card, and they will use it.

Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 02:39 PM (nj1bB)

135 When the Shit Hits the Fan

Posted by: Tahrir Square Radio at February 11, 2011 02:39 PM (6WmVb)

136 So you read the words "long intolerant" as meaning largely tolerant?

You can't even quote yoursdelf accurately. "Islam has long been intolerant of women but that is changing."

Really. How is Islam changing? Trending toward MORE recognition of women as equals? Women in the ME have LESS freedoms than they did 35 years ago.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at February 11, 2011 02:40 PM (9ytFL)

137 Minimum of 2 years, if my wife is a representative sample.
Freaky-deeky hormones are in full swing for an additional 3 mo after the 40 weeks. They are still there a more reasonable level for another 9 mo. If the friggin kid sleeps through the night, then they settle down to normal after about another year. But the low-level mommy anxiety lasts forever.

Posted by: dagny: Free Logprof damnit! at February 11, 2011 02:40 PM (l3g1A)

138 Someone on another thread said Mark Steyn called President Learning Curve an idiot while he was on with Megyn.

Most radio hosts like Rush and Hannity have played out their usefulness for me, as they lag in research, too self satisfied. I'm still disappointed that Fred Thompson's show stopped airing last month. It's long past high time Mark Steyn get his own radio show.

Posted by: Plateau Plato at February 11, 2011 02:40 PM (H+LJc)

139 Ha! Wouldn't it be great if he just
grew more and more outrageous until he became the black Liberace?!

You
know, that might be only way that you could indeed make Teh Won
tolerable to me.

Yeah, I might actually watch a whole two minutes of his next speech.

Posted by: kidney at February 11, 2011 02:40 PM (ENRGu)

140 I don't get what speech Barry can give.

"As I've always said, the military should keep Egypt stable until elections." ? Seems like daft timing even for him.

Overcharge!

Posted by: t-bird at February 11, 2011 02:41 PM (FcR7P)

141 OK... prediction time.
Anyone who comes into power will not be able to help with one of the primary triggers of these Mobs, food prices.
From there? Two ways to pacify the population, Strong Arm tactics, or create an outside threat.
With most Egyptians still hating Israel? the outside threat is more viable at this point, because the egyptian Army has shown itself reluctant to play oppressor.
Sooo... whoever comes to power expect a confrontation with Israel (at least the motions of one), supported by Iran... key will be with Iran in play, and them in control of Hezbollah, will things spin out of control.

Posted by: Moses at February 11, 2011 02:41 PM (AdK6a)

142 97% of women in egypthave had their vaginas mutilated. Currently.

Posted by: dagny: Free Logprof damnit! at February 11, 2011 02:42 PM (l3g1A)

143 so my friend writing the book about conspiracy sites on the internet gave me a link to a site and i took a peak. It made me wonder if the folks in DC aren't reading this site.

Posted by: curious at February 11, 2011 02:43 PM (p302b)

144 Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 02:39 PM (nj1bB)
Theinnocent victims of the future bombed out Israeli pizzeria's, buses, and dance clubs thank you for your optimism.
Were you asleep for the Infetadah of Arafat?

Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2011 02:44 PM (6WmVb)

145 Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 02:39 PM (nj1bB)

Ace Ace Ace. Much of what you just said about the Egyptian Military could have been and was said about the Iranian Military. And remember how stead fast against islam the Turkish Military was?????
Yes The Egyptian Military does not want to to go to War with Israel, BUT that does not mean they might not abrogate the "Peace" treaty to keep the masses satisfied. Abrogate the Treaty as a first step but do not violate it's precepts to start with. No troops or Armor in Sinai, so Israel could basically only Bitch and moan at first.
And when you can point out even one Arab Islamic Country that has a "democracy" call me back.

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 02:44 PM (0GFWk)

146 OK... prediction time.
Anyone who comes into power will not be able to help with one of the primary triggers of these Mobs, food prices.
From there? Two ways to pacify the population, Strong Arm tactics, or create an outside threat.
With most Egyptians still hating Israel? the outside threat is more viable at this point, because the egyptian Army has shown itself reluctant to play oppressor.
Sooo... whoever comes to power expect a confrontation with Israel (at least the motions of one), supported by Iran... key will be with Iran in play, and them in control of Hezbollah, will things spin out of control.
What a bunch of bullshit - get real.

Posted by: Adolf Hitler at February 11, 2011 02:44 PM (JzKy8)

147 The people in the square are telling the Fox reporter they love the American people, not "the system".
Posted by: Jane D'oh

Has a familiar ring to it...

Posted by: Plateau Plato at February 11, 2011 02:44 PM (H+LJc)

148 Women in the ME only matter to racist redneck wingnuts.

Posted by: SurferDoc at February 11, 2011 02:44 PM (o3bYL)

149 Which would probably defeat it, and on top of that, you can't actually *beat* any nuclear armed state. You can do some stuff, you can harass them, but at the end of the day you cannot actually impose unconditional surrender on them. They have the nuclear trump card, and they will use it.
Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 02:39 PM (nj1bB)
I don't think the problem is an Egyptian invasion of Israel. The problem is Egypt not caring so much about arms being transferred along their border and the peace agreement either being cancelled or ignored.

Posted by: robtr nickless liberation front at February 11, 2011 02:45 PM (hVDig)

150 If the Wikileaks cables are true the first thing Obama did was start encouraging the Muslim Brotherhood to start trouble.

Posted by: Vic at February 11, 2011 02:45 PM (M9Ie6)

151 nevergiveup

And with the Egyptian Army maintaining martial law for domestic peace, who is guarding their open Gaza etc. borders?

Posted by: Plateau Plato at February 11, 2011 02:46 PM (H+LJc)

152 An islamist state cannot be a democracy. Period. Sharia is not law for a democracy. The two are anathema to each other.

Posted by: dagny: Free Logprof damnit! at February 11, 2011 02:46 PM (l3g1A)

153 >>> If the Wikileaks cables are true the first thing Obama did was start encouraging the Muslim Brotherhood to start trouble.
Seriously?
Linky?

Posted by: Roadking at February 11, 2011 02:46 PM (JzKy8)

154 That Fox reporter in the square should have asked the folks what they think of teh Jooos.

On second thought, Fox already has a reporter and a cameraman out of commission.....

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:47 PM (UOM48)

155 If the Wikileaks cables are true the first thing Obama did was start
encouraging the Muslim Brotherhood to start trouble.

Between that and giving the Russians British nuclear secrets one starts to lean toward the conspiracy types.

Posted by: kidney at February 11, 2011 02:47 PM (ENRGu)

156 The Israeli's are mostly loved by the citizenry of their neighbours in the middle-east.

Posted by: AceClapper at February 11, 2011 02:47 PM (6WmVb)

157 Poor exiled Logprof has an O/T:

Anyone here keen on seeing The Eagle? I like the commercials, and it's bee a good decade since we had a Roman epic. It looks like it's about a search and rescue for a Roman citizen captured by Picts.It also looks like it lacks obvious obnoxious leftards.P.S. Thanks runningrn and everyone else for your support!

Posted by: dagny: Free Logprof damnit! at February 11, 2011 02:48 PM (l3g1A)

158 Whatever happens in Egypt, the inept dickwads in the White House are claiming a steering wheel on a cyclone. Their stupidity will not go unnoted.

Posted by: maddogg at February 11, 2011 02:48 PM (OlN4e)

159 Will someone on Megyn's set donkey punch Colmes already? All he's doing is bashing Bush.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:48 PM (UOM48)

160 Posted by: dagny: Free Logprof damnit! at February 11, 2011 02:46 PM (l3g1A)

not to mention it's like oil and water with capitalism. And the only way for the economy and the people to thrive is capitalism.

My friend who is from the middle east told me he is not allowed to have credit, as he whipped his credit card and then explained the complicated way in which he gets around this dictate of sharia law.

Posted by: curious at February 11, 2011 02:49 PM (p302b)

161
Are we OT, yet?

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 02:49 PM (uFokq)

162 The Westernized Army of Egypt is mostly sympathetic to the cause of Israel.

Posted by: The Sound of one AceClapper at February 11, 2011 02:49 PM (6WmVb)

163 As for what happens in Egypt I don't think it matters what kind of government they have it will fail.
35% of Egyptians can't read, 45% of Egyptian women can't read. Egypt has to import over 50% of their food and they are the worlds largest importer of wheat. Wheat prices have doubled in the last year and are still going up.
Those are problems that are happening today, you don't change that with switching who is in the palace.

Posted by: robtr nickless liberation front at February 11, 2011 02:49 PM (hVDig)

164 158 Whatever happens in Egypt, the inept dickwads in the White House are claiming a steering wheel on a cyclone. Their stupidity will not go unnoted.
Posted by: maddogg at February 11, 2011 02:48 PM (OlN4e)
And everyone knows you don't use a steering wheel, Ya use a Lassoo!

Posted by: Pecos Bill at February 11, 2011 02:49 PM (AdK6a)

165 An islamist state cannot be a democracy. Period. Sharia is not law for a democracy.

Sharia guarantees freedom of choice. Unfortunately, the second choice is always "...or die".

Posted by: t-bird at February 11, 2011 02:49 PM (FcR7P)

166 garrett, I honestly forgot (as another commenter mentioned) the keep-weapons-traffic-down angle. Didn't occur to me. Was only thinking of actual war.

Error aside, I sort of don't get the idea of blaming *me* for this, as if I voted for it. I feel like those on the pro-Mubarak side are basically saying "We want things the way they were!"

Well, that's impossible. What do you want me to say? It is strictly impossible. So what is the point of agitating for that?

You're like presuming we have some control here and we can just put Mubarak back in place if we just decide too. We can't.

Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 02:50 PM (nj1bB)

167 The next step is Obama brokering or at least claiming credit for the
formation of a coalition government. This new coalition will include the
Muslim Brotherhood, who will then seize control.

Iran redux.

Posted by: Muslim Brotherhood at February 11, 2011 02:50 PM (9Pzy7)

168 Obama would like to think of himself as the 'Mandela' of the Paestinian People.
Don't think so?
Look at his donor list and the writings, teachings, andactions of those contained therein...maybe look to Rashid Kahlidi.

Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2011 02:52 PM (6WmVb)

169 P.S.  Thanks runningrn and everyone else for your support!

Don't mention it.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at February 11, 2011 02:52 PM (9ytFL)

170 You're like presuming we have some control here and we can just put Mubarak back in place if we just decide too. We can't.

Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 02:50 PM (nj1bB)

your right we have NO control here and never did. The time for control was 25 years ago. But that aside, since we have no control, I wish our "Leaders" would keep their big fat yaps shut and not undermine any Allies we might have left in the Middle East or the World.

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 02:52 PM (0GFWk)

171 For fiscal year 2009, the Obama administration immediately halved the money
for democracy promotion in Egypt; the civil society funds were slashed
70 percent, to $7 million. Meanwhile, money that was to be given
directly to civil society groups was eliminated...

Since the money was spent, lost no where to be found, nothing to show for it but Obama's personal extravagances, that's Obama Greed as corrupt as his denunciation of Mubarak.

Posted by: Plateau Plato at February 11, 2011 02:52 PM (H+LJc)

172 Danger Room had a big article on how the DoD has ways of circumventing internet blocks by rogue regimes. Maybe Obama should let lose the geeks of war.
Then he could start claiming credit for Iran too. You'd think he'd want more credit.

Posted by: Iblis at February 11, 2011 02:52 PM (7IdP1)

173
Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 02:44 PM (0GFWk)
Good point. However, the Turkish military became less and less of a protector of Turkish secularism because the Turkish leaders wished (and probably still wishes) to be part of the EU. Some of the stipulations for considering Turkey as a potential EU applicant were that the military had to give up some of its long-standing controls over elections, allowing the Islamists such as Erdogan to finally get a hold of the Prime Minister spot.Whether or not Egypt follows a parallel pattern with the Muslim Brotherhood finally attaining the Egyptian levers of power for the Islamist's nefarious schemes remains to be seen.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at February 11, 2011 02:52 PM (9hSKh)

174 I just turned on my lava lamp in celebration.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 02:52 PM (SJ6/3)

175 I don't get why everyone is so worried. It's just cotton fabric, people.

Posted by: Muslin Brotherhood at February 11, 2011 02:53 PM (NS2Mo)

176 The next step is Obama brokering or at least claiming credit for the formation of a coalition government.

And do it in front of a blue-screen. Ask the leaders in a few months about Obama's role and they'll go, "huh?"

Posted by: t-bird at February 11, 2011 02:54 PM (FcR7P)

177 the Turkish military became less and less of a protector of Turkish secularism because the Turkish leaders wished (and probably still wishes) to be part of the EU.
Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at February 11, 2011 02:52 PM (9hSKh)

And how's that working out for the West so far?

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 02:54 PM (0GFWk)

178 I gave a speech in Cairo, about hope and change. Cairo had a revolution two years later. Therefore I caused the revolution.

Take that, wingnuts.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 02:54 PM (AZGON)

179 Linky?

Posted by: Roadking at February 11, 2011 02:46 PM (JzKy
There were several links back when this shit first started. Do a search on wikileaks+obama+muslim brotherhood

Posted by: Vic at February 11, 2011 02:54 PM (M9Ie6)

180 >>You can't even quote yoursdelf accurately. "Islam has long been intolerant of women but that is changing."

Yeah,because long intolerant doesn't really mean long intolerant. And if you don't think Islam is moderating toward women in places in the middle east then go there and see for yourself. Not happening at a pace fast enough for you? Too bad. I'm sure women in the US didn't think they got their rights fast enough.

What's your solution? More snark on a blog or just bomb all Muslims into oblivion?

Posted by: JackStraw at February 11, 2011 02:54 PM (TMB3S)

181 Fox emphasizing that Learning Curve will be speaking to the world.

What could possibly go wrong?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 02:55 PM (UOM48)

182 I don't get why everyone is so worried. It's just cotton fabric, people.


If only I could get my wife to go along with this. Even my eyes need a rest once in a while.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 02:55 PM (AZGON)

183
And how's that working out for the West so far?

Not very good, as you know.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at February 11, 2011 02:56 PM (9hSKh)

184
Do we all agree this is a Pyrrhic victory for the Egyptian people?

From what I heard, these protestors aren't Joe Jane Egypt. They're rabble-rousers and extremists.

So the Egyptians are probably worse off now than with Mubarak, yes?

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 02:56 PM (uFokq)

185 Cotton prices have hit their highest level since the war, the Civil War.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 02:57 PM (SJ6/3)

186 You're like presuming we have some control here and we can just put Mubarak back in place if we just decide too. We can't.

I don't know that anyone supports that. I think you're referring to the anti-Pollyanna backlash against those who presume that the removal of Mubarak will result in a democracy anything similar to what first-world nations enjoy.

Aint gonna happen. Anywhere in the Muslim world. Because the problem with the Muslim world is that it's full of Muslims.

We all tend to project our own thought processes onto these movements, because hey, I know what I would want in the same situation.

That's the thing about foreigners: they're foreign.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at February 11, 2011 02:57 PM (9ytFL)

187
What's your solution? More snark on a blog or just bomb all Muslims into oblivion?

Both.

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 02:58 PM (uFokq)

188 After I give another historic address about how I single-handedly brought freedom to Egypt with mere words, the press will want to give me so many tongue baths that I'll probably look like a prune by Saturday.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 02:58 PM (AZGON)

189 127
The people in the square are telling the Fox reporter they love the American people, not "the system".

Not that I agree with the application of many of our foreign aid policies, USAID (Agency for International Development) spends a shitload of our money giving away food and medical supplies. On all of these packages are the words "From the American People."

Could all those advertising dollars actually be working?



Posted by: NC Ref at February 11, 2011 02:58 PM (/izg2)

190 185
Cotton prices have hit their highest level since the war, the Civil War.


Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 02:57 PM (SJ6/3)
So we're making a little extra money! Is that such a big deal?

Posted by: Muslin Brotherhood at February 11, 2011 02:58 PM (NS2Mo)

191 Fox emphasizing that Learning Curve will be speaking to the world.

Oh, goody. He'll say, "You're welcome" and then we wait for five minutes as it's translated into 500 languages and scrolled across the screen.

Posted by: t-bird at February 11, 2011 02:58 PM (FcR7P)

192 Hey, can we block MSNBC?

Posted by: Cherry π at February 11, 2011 02:58 PM (+sBB4)

193 You're like presuming we have some control here and we can just put Mubarak back in place if we just decide too. We can't.
No - That Cat is out of the Bag.
[But we can release our Political Prisoners (Read: Logprof and Nickless).]
Seriously, though - We need to make Obama wear this along with ALL of his other foreign policy blunders. He comes out on the wrong side of Liberty every time...suddenly he drops the Alinsky playbook and gets it right?
No Way.
It is patently obvious that he is trying to tip the table against our ally, Israel.
People like you need to be pointing this out. Not just Jihadwatch and the Jawa.
The association of Dorn, Ayers, et al with the Palis, and Obama's practical obsession with the building codes in Israel, allhave a meaning.
He is desperate to make gains to this end to secure the Billions he is planning at dumping on the 2012 race. That LA Times Video is as important as anything else he is desperate to keep hidden.

Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2011 02:58 PM (6WmVb)

194 Sharia guarantees freedom of choice. Unfortunately, the second choice is always "...or die".

Posted by: t-bird

I wrote that while exposing that in the Qur'an, there is no "God With Us" Immanuel.

Posted by: Pope John Paul II at February 11, 2011 02:59 PM (H+LJc)

195 Put the FEMA camps to good use.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 02:59 PM (SJ6/3)

196 Anyone else having problems with the HQ's main page? it's slow

Posted by: Ben-Free Logprof/nickless prisoners of conscience at February 11, 2011 02:59 PM (wuv1c)

197 Cotton prices have hit their highest level since the war, the Civil War.
Anyone know how to get Chocolate out of Raw Cotton?

Posted by: Milo Miderbinder at February 11, 2011 02:59 PM (6WmVb)

198 Jake Tapper has the White House Spin "Teh Won did it" meanwhile MSNBC is reporting that the military leaders forced Mubarak out.

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at February 11, 2011 03:00 PM (VgM+c)

199 The people in the square said they want freedom. They didn't say they wanted democracy, in fact the guy said they did not want our system.
So again I ask what does freedom mean to the people in Egypt?

Posted by: lions at February 11, 2011 03:00 PM (/vDzc)

200 Aint gonna happen. Anywhere in the Muslim world. Because the problem with the Muslim world is that it's full of Muslims.


I've often thought the same thing about the French and France.

Posted by: George Orwell at February 11, 2011 03:00 PM (AZGON)

201
"He had very tough things to say about the United States," said
Ben-Eliezer, a member of the center-left Labor Party who has held talks
with Mubarak on numerous occasions while serving in various Israeli
coalition governments.
"He gave me a lesson in democracy and
said: 'We see the democracy the United States spearheaded in Iran and
with Hamas, in Gaza, and that's the fate of the Middle East,'"
Ben-Eliezer said.
"'They may be talking about democracy but they
don't know what they're talking about and the result will be extremism
and radical Islam,'" he quoted Mubarak as saying.

link

Posted by: pitythefool at February 11, 2011 03:01 PM (BjQSh)

202 Jake Tapper has the White House Spin "Teh Won did it" meanwhile MSNBC is reporting that the military leaders forced Mubarak out.
Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at February 11, 2011 03:00 PM (VgM+c)

yeah Israeli papers were reporting that hours ago

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:01 PM (0GFWk)

203 Main page AOK maybe you are having an automatic update or something.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 03:01 PM (SJ6/3)

204 I know how to fry Boll Weevils.

Posted by: Cherry π at February 11, 2011 03:01 PM (+sBB4)

205
Until Mubarak is dangling from a balcony, this 'revolution' failed.

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:01 PM (uFokq)

206
Really, it sounds like he went on vacation and will back in two weeks.

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:02 PM (uFokq)

207 So the Egyptians are probably worse off now than with Mubarak, yes?
Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 02:56 PM (uFokq)
Well... economy is probably pretty much at a stand still... and they bombed one of the Natural Gas Pipelines, taking production offline...
Considering that part of the trigger for this was food price inflation? That economic hit is not going to help, and I predict a recession based on the economic upheaval... which will raise food prices even further.
Add this from economy watch:
Budget: revenues: $48.86 billion expenditures: $61.61 billion (2009 est.) revenues: $40.46 billion expenditures: $51.38 billion (2008 est.)
Public debt: 79.8% of GDP (2009 est.) 86.5% of GDP (2008 est.)
And any incoming government really does not have any hard capital to buy food to get to the population.

Posted by: Pecos Bill at February 11, 2011 03:02 PM (AdK6a)

208 If I claimed to be a college perfesser and couldn't figure out how to use a proxy ip address, I'd be too embarrassed to ever show up around here.

Posted by: Uncle Jed at February 11, 2011 03:02 PM (qPTz0)

209 Whether or not Egypt follows a parallel pattern with the Muslim Brotherhood finally attaining the Egyptian levers of power for the Islamist's nefarious schemes remains to be seen.
I see what you did there.

Posted by: Zombie George Santayana at February 11, 2011 03:03 PM (6WmVb)

210 Egypt's new slogan: "What Now?"

Posted by: Cherry π at February 11, 2011 03:03 PM (+sBB4)

211 Jake Tapper has the White House Spin "Teh Won did it" meanwhile MSNBC is reporting that the military leaders forced Mubarak out.

ergo: Teh Won Learning Curve controls the Egyptian military.

Posted by: jwb7605 at February 11, 2011 03:03 PM (Qxe/p)

212 Okay, I've gotta turn off the TV. I can't stand Sheppy, and then Barky. I just can't.

Let me know how the Hopenchange speech turns out. Gag.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 03:03 PM (UOM48)

213 " the woman at the center of the sex scandal surrounding Lee, an upstate
New York Republican, is Yesha Callahan, a single, 34-year-old
African-American designer,"

I know a food joke here.

Posted by: Cherry π at February 11, 2011 03:04 PM (+sBB4)

214 It's an interesting exercise to speculate on what the ultimate outcome of today's resignation will be, but there's just no way to know. Even having "The Army" in charge doesn't really tell us anything about what things will look like in 6 weeks or 6 months. Armies are generally heavy with ambitiousOfficers of allpolitical bents. Itcould be that some Colonel that nobody has ever heard of is right now figuring out how to be running the show by this time next year.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 11, 2011 03:04 PM (xMT+4)

215 Hmm, so is Easy Bake still going to want to take credit when the Bruthahood takes over and realizes it's wet dream of Sharia law?

Posted by: laceyunderalls at February 11, 2011 03:05 PM (pLTLS)

216 Public debt: 79.8% of GDP (2009 est.) 86.5% of GDP (2008 est.)


Sounds good. But they aren't aiming high enough. I hope to make our own public debt at least 100% of GDP, if those high-speed rail haters in the Congress will just cooperate. Gotta get into debt to get out of it, you know.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 03:05 PM (AZGON)

217 It could be that some Colonel that nobody has ever heard of is right now figuring out how to be running the show by this time next year.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 11, 2011 03:04 PM (xMT+4)

You called

Posted by: Nasser at February 11, 2011 03:06 PM (0GFWk)

218
Here's a preview:

/Obama projected on one of the pyramids like it was a jumbotron

"As I said before, nobody could have foreseen a time when a man of African descent could become president of Egypt."

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:06 PM (uFokq)

219
She designs african-americans?

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:06 PM (uFokq)

220 So all the Egyptians protesting have no idea who they want for a leader, just that they don't want Mubarak. Nature and the Mooselimb Buttbangers abhor a vacuum.

Posted by: maddogg at February 11, 2011 03:06 PM (OlN4e)

221 Hear my voice? Are you fainting yet?

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 03:06 PM (AZGON)

222 We all tend to project our own thought processes onto these movements,
because hey, I know what I would want in the same situation.

Too true.

One major problem the layman here (along the naive liberals) has with analyzing events in the sandbox is the language barrier. When we think of "freedom" here, we mostly think of "freedom" as having the ability to elect our own leaders and participate without interference in the democratic process. People in the Middle East commonly think of "freedom" as independence from foreign rule. Some of the protesters did denounce Mubarak as a puppet of American and Israeli agents (although admittedly this wasn't a major theme of the protests - but this undercurrent is still there).

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at February 11, 2011 03:06 PM (9hSKh)

223 Speaking of "more importantly: a republic", what was up with Rush today naming callers pinheads or stupid, and refusing to put any on, for wanting to talk about exporting republicanism rather than democracy?

It seems to me that's an entirely reasonable and intelligent point. It goes back to post-WWII re-construction when we backed parliamentary systems that quickly hardened into social-welfare democracies. And its still current in the tension between promoting free market capitalism with its long term benefits and immediate democratization - the two are distinct at best and conflicting at worst, and the desire to have our cake and eat it too is a large part of the failures of American attempts to spread democracy. (Though recent events partly prove out Bush's plan to use a free Iraq to put pressure on the Arab world, the bipartisan consensus that democracy is an absolute good on its own terms is part of the problem.)

Posted by: Dave R. at February 11, 2011 03:07 PM (oY27o)

224 Why is he inserting himself right into the middle of this and actually trying to micro-manage it? All of Egypt's voices- like the Brotherhood? Shut this idiot up

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:08 PM (0GFWk)

225 You would be unsurprised by the numbers of platitudes I'm now using in my historic speech. I used "Unity" within fifteen seconds.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 03:08 PM (AZGON)

226 Obama Egypt Lecture, tooooo insulting.

Posted by: Pope John Paul II at February 11, 2011 03:08 PM (H+LJc)

227
"Egypt is like a car in the ditch..."

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:08 PM (uFokq)

228 And, btw, where is the proof that Mubarak isn't still pulling the strings?

Posted by: maddogg at February 11, 2011 03:08 PM (OlN4e)

229 something people are neglecting is that a decent amount of our rendition flights landed in egypt if you catch my drift. Do any of you think a democratic egypt is going to be as helpful in the GWOT?
More specifically, will any middle eastern regime be helpful the way we vacilated and didn't come to mubarak's aid?

Posted by: Ben-Free Logprof/nickless prisoners of conscience at February 11, 2011 03:08 PM (wuv1c)

230 "a powerful wind at the back of this change"

I just said that. Seriously. Am I clever, or what? I know all about wind, by the way.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 03:08 PM (AZGON)

231 He's a fruckin moron

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:09 PM (0GFWk)

232 I say we just buy Egypt. Make it the 51st state.

Posted by: Cherry π at February 11, 2011 03:09 PM (+sBB4)

233 To 215, if history is any guide, the right officer (or officers) merely need to let things spiral into ugly chaos to enablehim to be rewarded by his countrymen for killing civilians and restoring order. See Napoleon. My guess is there are such officers in the Egyptian army.

Posted by: Tigtog at February 11, 2011 03:09 PM (Q5+Og)

234
"As I said before, Mubarak drove Egypt in a ditch. And now he's sipping on a Slurpee."

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:09 PM (uFokq)

235 Egypt has played a pivotal role in human history for 6000 years. "For the first time in my (adult) life, I'm proud..."

Posted by: BHO at February 11, 2011 03:09 PM (H+LJc)

236 "the wheel of history turned at a blinding pace"

Man, I'm a wordsmith of the highest calibre.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 03:09 PM (AZGON)

237 The Shah lasted until Feb 11, 1979. How 'bout them apples?

Posted by: t-bird at February 11, 2011 03:09 PM (FcR7P)

238 There is always the island paradise of Diego Garcia.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 03:10 PM (SJ6/3)

239 Wolf Blitzer floated the idea that Obama's Cairo speech may have caused all this.
What's funny is that in their haste to give the Won credit, they might be saddling him with a burden.
What happens if everyone give Obama credit and then the whole revolution turns French?

Posted by: Ben-Free Logprof/nickless prisoners of conscience at February 11, 2011 03:10 PM (wuv1c)

240 "The military acted stupidly"

Posted by: Cherry π at February 11, 2011 03:10 PM (+sBB4)

241 234
To 215, if history is any guide, the right officer (or officers) merely
need to let things spiral into ugly chaos to enablehim to be rewarded
by his countrymen for killing civilians and restoring order. See
Napoleon. My guess is there are such officers in the Egyptian army.

Worst yet, who's to say that several high-ranking military officers aren't stealth Islamists or even 12th-ers?!

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at February 11, 2011 03:10 PM (9hSKh)

242 I must admit, I do deliver this historic speech with more sincere feeling than SOTU. After all, I actually love Egyptians. Americans, not so much.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 03:10 PM (AZGON)

243
"We are witnessing history."

I love that.

So profound.

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:11 PM (uFokq)

244 Generation Technology Emerged

Today they are worth something.

Posted by: BHO at February 11, 2011 03:11 PM (H+LJc)

245 What's with all the pessimism? Some of you almost seem as if you want the MB to take over just to prove some kind of point.
The military taking over is a positive development- they have strong ties to the US, and have been the ones who've been enforcing the peace treaty with Israel along with keeping the MB in check.
I seriously doubt that they're going to sit idly by and let the MB take over- their military (like many in the Middle East) has been stocked with officers loyal to the (former) regime. Were the islamacists to take over, the Army wouldbe facing an unpleasant fate when the MB decides to purge the military of regime loyalists in favor of MB loyalists.
A big difference between Egypt and 1979 Iran was that in the latter, the military got fed up from the lack of support from Carter and basically just surrendered. In Egypt, they're in control and enjoy popular support.
That's not to say that Egypt couldn't eventually fall to the MB, but I don't see it happening in the near future. The danger was the prospect of a power vacuum, but that doesn't appear to be happening.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 11, 2011 03:11 PM (SY2Kh)

246 I sort of don't get the idea of blaming *me* for this, as if I voted for it.
You're like presuming we have some control here

Yeah. I know; Since when did people start confusing an AoSHQ moron mashup for a combined CFR/Tri-Lateral/Bilderberg/Illuminati meeting?

*If it's true I vote we give Venezuela to Honduras*


Posted by: MīcÞeMūß at February 11, 2011 03:11 PM (0q2P7)

247
Did you guys happen to witness yesterday?

You witnessed history.

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:11 PM (uFokq)

248 If, and when this turns out badly, this little speech Obama is giving can be used in the next campaign almost word for word

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:11 PM (0GFWk)

249 Doesn't sound as if he even scanned this speech before giving it.

Posted by: Retread at February 11, 2011 03:11 PM (okCHU)

250 "Mubarak's Tea Party is finally out of power"

Posted by: Cherry π at February 11, 2011 03:11 PM (+sBB4)

251 Not wataching. Can't stomach it.
Barky must think he's like the 'Jewel' in the 'Jewel of the Nile'.
He's still the one we've all been waiting for after all.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at February 11, 2011 03:11 PM (pLTLS)

252 I've got the TV turned off. Is Learning Curve standing in front of that gawd awful gold curtain? Are there pillars?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 03:11 PM (UOM48)

253 Worst yet, who's to say that several high-ranking military officers aren't stealth Islamists or even 12th-ers
they probably aren't because chances are good we trained all of their younger officers

Posted by: Ben-Free Logprof/nickless prisoners of conscience at February 11, 2011 03:11 PM (wuv1c)

254 No mindless killing? What fun is that!?

Posted by: Robespierre at February 11, 2011 03:12 PM (6WmVb)

255 Obama's Soul Cries wahhhhh*

Posted by: BHO at February 11, 2011 03:12 PM (H+LJc)

256 I wish the poor TOTUS would just fall over and shatter on the floor.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 03:12 PM (UOM48)

257 How long will it drone on?

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 03:12 PM (SJ6/3)

258 So, how good is security at the US Embassy in Cairo?

Posted by: Muslim Brotherhood at February 11, 2011 03:12 PM (9Pzy7)

259 Now is Jafar's chance to seize control

Posted by: Ben-Free Logprof/nickless prisoners of conscience at February 11, 2011 03:12 PM (wuv1c)

260 Man, I'm stuffing so many bromides into my speech that even I am getting indigestion.

Berlin wall, Gandhi... I can name lots of places and things. I rock.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 03:12 PM (AZGON)

261 well I never thought he could do it, but BO has me crying, really crying.

Posted by: curious at February 11, 2011 03:13 PM (p302b)

262 Anyone who comes into power will not be able to help with one of the primary triggers of these Mobs, food prices.
From there? Two ways to pacify the population, Strong Arm tactics, or create an outside threat.


Or, buy grain with Saudi money. After WWII, the Russians kept bread and cheap ass sausage available through subsidies. The poor didn't have variety, but they did have calories.



It keeps revolution down.

Posted by: yeah, I go nuthin at February 11, 2011 03:13 PM (GTbGH)

263 Egypt change the World? Give me a freaken break

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:13 PM (0GFWk)

264 Barry orates...and the world shrugs.
FREEDOM!
Egypt will now know freedom...the freedom of open borders, socialized healthcare, and not being able to smoke cigarettes in public places!
FREEDOM!

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 11, 2011 03:13 PM (P33XN)

265 And effin italics fail again.

Posted by: toby928™: Popular Front for the Liberation of logprof at February 11, 2011 03:13 PM (GTbGH)

266 Barky must think he's like the 'Jewel' in the 'Jewel of the Nile'.

Barack Obama comes out of the closet in
Romancing the Bone

Posted by: MoviePhone at February 11, 2011 03:13 PM (6WmVb)

267 Berlin wall, Gandhi... I can name lots of places and things. I rock.


Is he really? Jeebus.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 03:13 PM (UOM48)

268 Unbelievably insulting on every nuanced level.

I need a shower.

Posted by: Plateau Plato at February 11, 2011 03:13 PM (H+LJc)

269 Worst yet, who's to say that several high-ranking military officers aren't stealth Islamists or even 12th-ers?!
Egypt is Sunni, the "12th-ers" are Shia.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 11, 2011 03:14 PM (SY2Kh)

270 Has everyone forgotten we are dealing with an Arab mentality here? Tribalism will be a powerful force along with Islam, and not a force for democracy, IMHO.

Posted by: maddogg at February 11, 2011 03:14 PM (OlN4e)

271 I wonder if Prissypants will end with, "But first, you will blow me."

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 03:14 PM (UOM48)

272 The Enrichment Center once again reminds you that nickless' IP is not a good person, and has been sent to android hell where it was sent at the first sign of defiance.

Cake and Grief Counseling will be available at the conclusion of the test.

Posted by: GLaDOS at February 11, 2011 03:14 PM (3ftMt)

273 To 242, my guess is that the Mooselimb Brotherhood have few friends in the army and cannot provide the army with much in the way of support; materially or morally. The army produced Nasser, Sadat and Mubarek. They are unlikely to produce a Shah.

Posted by: Tigtog at February 11, 2011 03:15 PM (Q5+Og)

274 When was the last time Egypt had a major effect on mankind? 1000BC? later? earlier?
Honestly, they were irrellevant for thousands of years until in 1869 Europeans built the Suez Canal

Posted by: Ben-Free Logprof/nickless prisoners of conscience at February 11, 2011 03:15 PM (wuv1c)

275 Is Barry flapping his gob?

Posted by: toby928™: Popular Front for the Liberation of logprof at February 11, 2011 03:15 PM (GTbGH)

276 Putting aside sarcasm ever so briefly, you know what was the most disgusting thing about listening to President Shitstain's "speech?" He used words like freedom and liberty and liberation more often about Egypt than I've ever heard him use recently about the USA. Did he even use the word freedom in the last whiny SOTU?

Fucking flatworm in the White House.

Posted by: George Orwell at February 11, 2011 03:15 PM (AZGON)

277
At best, this is a lateral move on the part of Egyptians, no?

I don't even see the potential for improvement, here.

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:15 PM (uFokq)

278 In other news, the clowns in the sidebar scare the bejezus out of me.
Why?
Brewer should have his picture posting privelges revoked.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at February 11, 2011 03:16 PM (pLTLS)

279 And effin italics fail again.
There's a formatting surprise in every post! It's a feature.

Posted by: Nash Rambler at February 11, 2011 03:16 PM (9IOHF)

280 my guess is that the Mooselimb Brotherhood have few friends in the army and cannot provide the army with much in the way of support; materially or morally. The army produced Nasser, Sadat and Mubarek. They are unlikely to produce a Shah.
Posted by: Tigtog at February 11, 2011 03:15 PM (Q5+Og)

????Your all over the place with that one? Not sure what your saying? But I might remind you it was elements in the Army that killed Sadat

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:16 PM (0GFWk)

281
I don't remember Senator Obama being so positive when the Iraqis voted for the first time in 35 years.

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:16 PM (uFokq)

282 Hey, Michelle is starving me. What about my rights?

Posted by: Barry's Tapeworm at February 11, 2011 03:17 PM (UOM48)

283 Hosni who?

Posted by: Charles Gibson at February 11, 2011 03:17 PM (b6qrg)

284 Honestly, they were irrellevant for thousands of years until in 1869 Europeans built the Suez Canal
It's the Panama Canal you dumbass winger!!!1!1!!

Posted by: Chrissy Matthews at February 11, 2011 03:17 PM (pLTLS)

285 So can someone fill in for me where we go from here? Military just disbanded parliament. Sounds like good ol' democracy. So what was it like in 1979? Please tell me details.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at February 11, 2011 03:17 PM (c5RQr)

286 Egypt will now know freedom...the freedom of open borders, socialized healthcare, and not being able to smoke cigarettes in public places!

FREEDOM!

I'm glad you understand, at last, the true meaning of the word.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 03:17 PM (AZGON)

287 I am watching the Science Channel's documentary on ladders until the DNOTUS is done.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 03:17 PM (SJ6/3)

288 All I could think of during that speech was the speech GWB made about everyone wants to be free.

Posted by: curious at February 11, 2011 03:18 PM (p302b)

289 God, I love the sound of my own voice. *shiver*

Posted by: Preznit Learning Curve at February 11, 2011 03:18 PM (UOM48)

290 I don't remember Senator Obama being so positive when the Iraqis voted for the first time in 35 years.

It's not freedom if Republicans are involved.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 03:18 PM (AZGON)

291 This is the biggest thing to happen in Egypt since the Battle of Carchemish in 605 BC.
Yeah, that happened a long time ago but ya gotta take what you can get...

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at February 11, 2011 03:18 PM (P33XN)

292 Let the fawning begin. My zipper is down.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 03:19 PM (AZGON)

293 Is he still yapping?

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 03:19 PM (UOM48)

294 "...Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, studebaker, television, Marilyn Monroe..."

Posted by: Barack Obama at February 11, 2011 03:19 PM (6WmVb)

295 Posted by: maddogg at February 11, 2011 03:14 PM (OlN4e)

My cynical side agrees with you.
The small voice I shove in the darkest closet of my mind- my optimism- says you're wrong, this time.

Like I said, based on my reading of History, it mostly comes down to whether this is really an internal uprising, or something fostered from without. If it is genuine, then I think there's reason for hope: people who rise up on their own are less likely to be duped by people promising them rainbows and unicorn-farts. OTOH, if this was ginned up from outside, expect some anti-Israel/anti-America government in just a few months.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 11, 2011 03:19 PM (8y9MW)

296 One of my friends said they are going nuts in "little Egypt" a section of Astoria in NYC

Posted by: curious at February 11, 2011 03:19 PM (p302b)

297 Egypt was useless until the Ptolemys and later the Romans ruled.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 03:19 PM (SJ6/3)

298 Is he still yapping?
Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 03:19 PM (UOM4

Probably but not on TV

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:20 PM (0GFWk)

299
"As I said before, I pulled the economy Egyptians from the brink of depression civil war."

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:20 PM (uFokq)

300 Oh, so now it's "places" in the ME where Islam is more tolerant towards women. Places where we have troops on the ground? Places that tolerate your presence for the dollars YOU bring them?

And I love, love, LOVE the pissy "snark on a blog" comment. Is that your version of the chickenhawk slur? Because you've been to the UAE, which as everyone knows contains 99% of the worlds Muslims, and I haven't.

So yes, I am a Camelhawk.

Mea. Fucking. Culpa.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at February 11, 2011 03:20 PM (9ytFL)

301 It's scenes like Tahrir Square that make an old community organizer like me get all teary-eyed.

That, and the occasional terrorist bombing. Bill Ayers is still a big part of me.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 03:20 PM (AZGON)

302 One of my friends said they are going nuts in "little Egypt" a section of Astoria in NYC
Posted by: curious at February 11, 2011 03:19 PM (p302b)

Yup, they haven't been this excited since 9/11

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:21 PM (0GFWk)

303 >>>I don't know that anyone supports that. I think you're referring to the anti-Pollyanna backlash against those who presume that the removal of Mubarak will result in a democracy anything similar to what first-world nations enjoy.

But I haven't seen any Pollyannas here. I see people who (like me) say the Muslim Brotherhood, and general Islamic tendency to disrespect the individual and individual rights, make this a dicey thing, but there is hope.

I don't know anyone who's got the pom-poms out without reservation.

The anti-Pollyannas as you term them seem to be much more certain of the trajectory of history than the Pollyannas.

Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 03:21 PM (nj1bB)

304 Jimmy Carters speech on democracy in Iran in 79' was much better.

Posted by: jjshaka at February 11, 2011 03:22 PM (BPNbV)

305 Does Egypt have gay bathhouses?
THEY WILL NOW!
FREEDOM!

Posted by: Shep Smith at February 11, 2011 03:22 PM (P33XN)

306 And I love, love, LOVE the pissy "snark on a blog" comment

Did he really??

I wish the worthless ass read this blog.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 03:22 PM (UOM48)

307 When was the last time Egypt had a major effect on mankind? 1000BC? later? earlier?

The Egyptians ceased being an international power when the Romans under Octavian defeated Antony at the battle of Actium in 30BC.

Even before then they were not much of a power or Cleopatra VII would not have been humping Antony for power.

Posted by: Vic at February 11, 2011 03:22 PM (M9Ie6)

308 Mob Rules

Posted by: Tahrir Square Radio at February 11, 2011 03:22 PM (6WmVb)

309 Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 03:21 PM (nj1bB)

Not to pick at nits (well, okay, a little bit), but the arc of history is easy to plot- as it has been observed. It's the arc of the future that's so tricky.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 11, 2011 03:23 PM (8y9MW)

310 You know what this revolution needs?
Less salt. And Happy Meals with no toys in them.

Posted by: Mike Bloomberg at February 11, 2011 03:23 PM (P33XN)

311 The anti-Pollyannas as you term them seem to be much more certain of the trajectory of history than the Pollyannas.
Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 03:21 PM (nj1bB)

yes, it's called history for a reason

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:23 PM (0GFWk)

312 I don't know anyone who's got the pom-poms out without reservation.

Hey, it gave me an opportunity to make another historic speech. So put me down for a couple of pom-poms. But when things turn sour over there, remember: It's because we aren't a perfect nation. I'll make sure we all remember that.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 03:24 PM (AZGON)

313 I guess Barky is getting his last bj from Gibbsy. Snif.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 03:24 PM (UOM48)

314 Have the food prices gone down yet?

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 03:24 PM (SJ6/3)

315 I hope Odipstick takes credit. When the killing starts he can take credit for that too. Not to mention a rigged election if they ever have one.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes, free logprof secular brotherhood at February 11, 2011 03:24 PM (xdHzq)

316 I think Egypt has a great opportunity here. They could kill all the cigarette smokers and raise taxes.

Posted by: Mike Bloomberg at February 11, 2011 03:24 PM (P33XN)

317 "ever since the Muslims built the Great Pyramid..."

Posted by: Barry O at February 11, 2011 03:24 PM (FcR7P)

318 Bush's second inaugural address:

"From the day of our Founding, we have proclaimed that every man and
woman on this earth has rights, and dignity, and matchless value,
because they bear the image of the Maker of Heaven and earth. Across the
generations we have proclaimed the imperative of self-government,
because no one is fit to be a master, and no one deserves to be a slave."

"Americans, of all people, should never be surprised by the power of our
ideals. Eventually, the call of freedom comes to every mind and every
soul. We do not accept the existence of permanent tyranny because we do
not accept the possibility of permanent slavery. Liberty will come to
those who love it."

"We go forward with complete confidence in the eventual triumph of
freedom. Not because history runs on the wheels of inevitability; it is
human choices that move events. Not because we consider ourselves a
chosen nation; God moves and chooses as He wills. We have confidence
because freedom is the permanent hope of mankind, the hunger in dark
places, the longing of the soul. When our Founders declared a new order
of the ages; when soldiers died in wave upon wave for a union based on
liberty; when citizens marched in peaceful outrage under the banner
"Freedom Now" - they were acting on an ancient hope that is meant to be
fulfilled. History has an ebb and flow of justice, but history also has a
visible direction, set by liberty and the Author of Liberty."

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at February 11, 2011 03:25 PM (VgM+c)

319 Did he just say they "inspired us through non-violence"??
Umm, yeah about that....
Really who gives a shit about antiquities though right?

Posted by: laceyunderalls at February 11, 2011 03:25 PM (pLTLS)

320 And yes, we should ease Muslim women into that whole freedom thing. Wouldn't want to move too quickly. Might pull a hammy.

Maybe we can stop sewing up vaginas THIS year, with outlawing hacking off their labia and clitorii by say... 2045.

Then we can work on stopping killing them for getting raped.

Hell, by the end of this century, we could be down to just beating them with sticks for showing some ankle in public! Hooray for the bold strides Islam has made!

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at February 11, 2011 03:26 PM (9ytFL)

321
1. Create a crisis or inject yourself into a current crisis.
2. Obama to the rescue!
3. Take credit, no matter what the outcome.


Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:26 PM (uFokq)

322 They could kill all the cigarette smokers and raise taxes.
Posted by: Mike Bloomberg at February 11, 2011 03:24 PM (P33XN)

hey mike, arabs smoke like demons. the cigarette tax is the only way the gov makes money

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:26 PM (0GFWk)

323 Hey! Where's Barry?

Maybe Moochelle won't let him leave until he finishes his vegetables...

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 11, 2011 03:26 PM (f9c2L)

324 I want my mummy.

Posted by: Zahi Hawass at February 11, 2011 03:26 PM (SJ6/3)

325 You know, I am so glad I am at work and didn't have to suffer through another sparky moment. Funny, when Bill was president I would at least watch the first 30 seconds of his BS just to get a reading on his trajectory. With sparky, there is never any change, its always his awesomeness that is the subject of every speech. Man, will 2012 ever come?

Posted by: Tigtog at February 11, 2011 03:26 PM (Q5+Og)

326 >>>Like I said, based on my reading of History, it mostly comes down to whether this is really an internal uprising, or something fostered from without. If it is genuine, then I think there's reason for hope:

What evidence is there this was fostered from without?

The sequence here -- the bizarre coup in Tunisia, followed by copycat uprising in Egypt -- suggests strongly this is a Black Swan that no one anticipated (and therefore no one planned). It is hard to imagine someone staged this strange sequence of events.

I find the whole conspiracy bend to history to be unrealistic. As conservatives, we constantly doubt our own professional smarty-pants to even deliver the fucking mail without a hitch, but then it seems to me many of us are quick to ascribe nearly omniscient intelligence and ultracompetence to foreign conspirators.

Which is it? Is humanity too atomistic and unpredictable and energetic to be successfully guided by state actors (or actors with many of the attributes of statehood) or is a rather easy thing?

I think it's the former in most cases. I don't believe the US government is smart enough to predict the US citizenry. I don't believe foreigners are able to do the same with another foreign country.

Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 03:26 PM (nj1bB)

327 Have the food prices gone down yet?

Have Ethanol mandates and subsidies ceased?

Posted by: MīcÞeMūß at February 11, 2011 03:26 PM (0q2P7)

328 Did he just say they "inspired us through non-violence"??
Umm, Greg Palkot and his cameraman might have a bone to pick about that.



Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 03:27 PM (UOM48)

329 Have the food prices gone down yet?
yeah, this is an external factor that could crush the revolution. If the new government can't keep food prices down this might not last long. And how can they keep food prices down when they are skyrocketing globally.
I think I read the IMF is going to put a warning out concerning China who doesn't import grain, however a drought might force them to buy grain which will cause a sharp increase in grain prices globally.

Posted by: Ben-Free Logprof/nickless prisoners of conscience at February 11, 2011 03:27 PM (wuv1c)

330 Did Carter give a speech in '79? How did the liberal press react 32 years ago?
My geology teacher who was in the army said a MB takeover might not happen. comments? I've been at school, i need to catch up on this.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at February 11, 2011 03:27 PM (c5RQr)

331 I don't think we can really support this revolution.
I mean, look at the crowds. Where are the women? Or the African-Americans? Or the Hispanics?
The lack of diversity here is absolutely appalling.

Posted by: Barry Obama at February 11, 2011 03:27 PM (P33XN)

332 Did he just say they "inspired us through non-violence"??

Umm, yeah about that....

Yes, yes I did say that. Clearly you are unaware that the regrettable events at the Cairo Museum were the machinations of teabaggers and people who listen to talk radio.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 03:27 PM (AZGON)

333 Did he just say they "inspired us through non-violence"??
it's official. Punching anderson cooper does not qualify as violence

Posted by: Ben-Free Logprof/nickless prisoners of conscience at February 11, 2011 03:27 PM (wuv1c)

334 "the wheel of history turned at a blinding pace"


What do we have for Little Egypt in the bonus round today, Vanna?

Posted by: Kathy Griffin, Merv's Favorite Hysterian at February 11, 2011 03:28 PM (93Qr2)

335 "Egypt will never be the same."

Those words already haunt. Very poor choice of words, as if to mark the demise of Egypt.

Posted by: Plateau Plato at February 11, 2011 03:29 PM (H+LJc)

336 Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 03:26 PM (nj1bB)

I am pretty sure this is an internal uprising but where in the Muslim Arab World do you find ANY reason to be optimistic that this is gonna turn out all right for western interests. And that's what we talking about here isn't it. A government and country that is not totally contrary to any and all Western Judo-Christian concepts?

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:29 PM (0GFWk)

337 it's official. Punching anderson cooper does not qualify as violence

I thought Andy just got slapped around a little. And got his hair mussed.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 03:29 PM (UOM48)

338 325 I want my mummy.
Posted by: Zahi Hawass at February 11, 2011 03:26 PM (SJ6/3)
You know, I'll bet that guy was standing in front of his museum with a machine gun after the looting started.

Posted by: maddogg at February 11, 2011 03:29 PM (OlN4e)

339 Punching anderson cooper does not qualify as violence
Well that's the Friday night special at old Gloria's household.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at February 11, 2011 03:29 PM (pLTLS)

340 A Long Distance Dedication to Hosni from Barack -
Barack writes: "Hosni. Is this Irony? I don't know. The learning Curve is just so steep. Anyway...See you in Zurich when I pick up my Second Peace prize! I'm going to EuroDisney World, Bitches!".
...he ends with - "Go Orunj.".
Here it is, Hosni- Long Distance from your buddy, Barack, from the Clash - Train in Vain

Posted by: Tahrir Square Radio at February 11, 2011 03:30 PM (6WmVb)

341 Is his speech just a kitchen sink of platitudes so far?

Posted by: t-bird at February 11, 2011 03:30 PM (FcR7P)

342
Human Rights Watch has 'confirmed' over 300 deaths since the start.

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:30 PM (uFokq)

343 Did he just say they "inspired us through non-violence"??

it's official. Punching anderson cooper does not qualify as violence

It's violence only if the puncher is lighter-skinned than the punchee.

Posted by: George Orwell at February 11, 2011 03:30 PM (AZGON)

344 So, when a Republican President talks about Regime Change it is mischief, meddling, and a terrible, terrible thing indeed, if not a mortal sin. When a Democrat President takes credit for Regime Change it is a heartwarming turning point in history and a vindication of great leadership and vision. That about it?

Posted by: SurferDoc at February 11, 2011 03:30 PM (o3bYL)

345 Organic uprising indeed.
Where a good number of protesters organized at mosques.
Yeah, this will surely end well.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at February 11, 2011 03:31 PM (pLTLS)

346
They lie, so it's probably closer to 100 deaths.

But still...if that's non-violence...

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:31 PM (uFokq)

347 Human Rights Watch has 'confirmed' over 300 deaths since the start.

Again, nothing to do with the peaceful Egyptians. That was the fault of mama grizzlies and reactionary right-wing bloggers.

The sooner you get used to the idea that my speeches have more connection with events on Pluto than on Earth, you will be less confused.

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 03:32 PM (AZGON)

348 When a Democrat President takes credit for Regime Change it is a heartwarming turning point in history and a vindication of great leadership and vision. That about it?
Posted by: SurferDoc at February 11, 2011 03:30 PM (o3bYL)
I was surprised, I really didn't hear him take credit for this although I am sure he wants to our other allies in the region might not think to highly of it.

Posted by: robtr nickless liberation front at February 11, 2011 03:32 PM (hVDig)

349 Maybe this will spread to Washington.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 03:33 PM (SJ6/3)

350 Let me get this straight: If I bitch-slap a libtard protester at our Tax Day Tea Party Rally, it's non-violent?

Alrighty, then. *grins*

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 03:33 PM (UOM48)

351 Let me be clear: this revolution would not have been possible without all Egyptians having high-speed internet and high-speed rail.

Posted by: Prezidint Obamer at February 11, 2011 03:33 PM (AXHCj)

352 Amazing, the Egyptian protestors lauded for their peacefullness with only a few dozen deaths, but the TEAparty is full of murderous and violent racists. Fukkin' idiots.

Posted by: maddogg at February 11, 2011 03:33 PM (OlN4e)

353 As conservatives, we constantly doubt our own professional smarty-pants
to even deliver the fucking mail without a hitch, but then it seems to
me many of us are quick to ascribe nearly omniscient intelligence and
ultracompetence to foreign conspirators.

Civilization was successfully herding sheep long before the first post office opened.

IDK

Just the fact that government is obviously horrendously bloated and incompetent

AND YET

The people of this country periodically vote for more government power and can't seem to fathom reducing entitlements.

Really, how can a city like Detroit exist, and yet anyone maintain the argument that people are hard to manipulate into doing things against their best interest?

Posted by: MīcÞeMūß at February 11, 2011 03:34 PM (0q2P7)

354 Did Carter give a speech in '79? How did the liberal press react 32 years ago?
My geology teacher who was in the army said a MB takeover might not happen. comments? I've been at school, i need to catch up on this.
sorry i neeeed to know

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at February 11, 2011 03:34 PM (c5RQr)

355 What evidence is there this was fostered from without?
There's more than you think. Start with researching google's involvement as well as the involvement of others involved with fund raising for the current administration.
While you are looking, check out the fake Pali Papers that came out concurrent with this and the Uprising in Tunisia.

Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2011 03:34 PM (6WmVb)

356 Watching the president laud Gibbs before his final press briefing. The man is the definition of glib.
I said it yesterday, I'll say it today--thanks, 52, for giving us this feckless man-child as president.

Posted by: Palandine at February 11, 2011 03:34 PM (g7D8V)

357 I can edit it to "accepts credit". Same-o to me.

Posted by: SurferDoc at February 11, 2011 03:34 PM (o3bYL)

358 7.0 mag earthquake in Chili.
Was it national 'take your bra off and jump up and down' day over there??

Posted by: laceyunderalls at February 11, 2011 03:34 PM (pLTLS)

359 Enough of the antichrist today.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 03:34 PM (SJ6/3)

360 Al-Jism-ra is loving Barry's Historic Speech #8274. They are replaying it over and over.

Posted by: George Orwell at February 11, 2011 03:35 PM (AZGON)

361

Maybe this will spread to Washington.

Cornel West and Tavis Smiley are way ahead of you, son.

"Egypt...will generate a democratic uprising in the United States."

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:35 PM (uFokq)

362 327: Truth be told, Ace, we hardly invented the idea of sending agents to destabilize governments for our own purposes. Especially when there are receptive groups on the ground to do the heavy lifting and mask your own involvement.
The chess match here is Iran and the Saudis. It's early in the game; time will tell who comes out on top. Sadly, all we can do now is watch, and hope for stalemate, as that's the only outcome that actually helps us right now (Suez security issues aside--that can get worked by other means).

Posted by: AoSHQ's worst commenter, DarkLord© at February 11, 2011 03:35 PM (GBXon)

363 If I bitch-slap a libtard protester MFM reporter at our Tax Day Tea Party Rally, it's non-violent?

FIFY

Posted by: Guy Fawkes, free logprof largely secular brotherhood at February 11, 2011 03:35 PM (xdHzq)

364 7.0 mag earthquake in Chili.
Sounds delicious.

Posted by: The Q at February 11, 2011 03:36 PM (AXHCj)

365 Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 03:26 PM (nj1bB)

I don't have any evidence, and I hope you're right.
I'm just cynical.

There's also the place of primacy the Muslim Brotherhood seems to be taking (at least if you listen to the Media) which makes it possible they're the main drivers of this- probably with outside help.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 11, 2011 03:36 PM (8y9MW)

366 Tavis Smiley and C. West >>> LOL!
Now there's a pair of boobs.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at February 11, 2011 03:36 PM (pLTLS)

367 Oh Christ, he goes from delivering a faux-historic speech to clowning around with Gibbsy in 2 minutes flat. What a guy.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 11, 2011 03:36 PM (xMT+4)

368 Which is it? Is humanity too atomistic and unpredictable and energetic
to be successfully guided by state actors or is a rather easy thing? Posted by: ace

The former. Which is why the CIA and State Dept are vastly overrated agencies by both the Left and Right. I'm not a fan of the Fortress America stance but the idea that we can twist knobs and pull levers of policy and change things is folly.

Posted by: goldbricker esq at February 11, 2011 03:37 PM (S59+B)

369 >>Mea. Fucking. Culpa.

Would be a lot easier for you to just say you made a mistake. I know that would be tough for you but tossing out random bullshit and attributing things to me I never said isn't making your point any stronger.

Posted by: JackStraw at February 11, 2011 03:37 PM (TMB3S)

370 Let me get this straight: Odumbass's first reaction to the uprising was "please turn the internet back on" and he is going to seek credit.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes, free logprof largely secular brotherhood at February 11, 2011 03:37 PM (xdHzq)

371 Oh Christ, he goes from delivering a faux-historic speech to clowning around with Gibbsy in 2 minutes flat. What a guy.
Posted by: Lincolntf at February 11, 2011 03:36 PM (xMT+4)

Why are you watching still? A death wish?

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:37 PM (0GFWk)

372
that's Doctor Professor Cool Cat Cornel West, to you

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:37 PM (uFokq)

373 he goes from delivering a faux-historic speech to clowning around with Gibbsy in 2 minutes flat. What a guy.
...another Hard Pivot!
Genius.

Posted by: Liberal Meme Machine at February 11, 2011 03:38 PM (6WmVb)

374 Oh look, the whitehouse press corps is clapping for Obama's personal appearance just like they did with George Bush.

Posted by: robtr nickless liberation front at February 11, 2011 03:38 PM (hVDig)

375 Posted by: nevergiveup

Good question.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 11, 2011 03:38 PM (xMT+4)

376 it's official. Punching anderson cooper does not qualify as violence

At any rate, the American reporters put themselves purposely into mobs,
Amanpour, Cooper and finally the Fox reporter leaving his hotel to
"escape" into the mob he was running from.

Panetta admitted that the American media reporters were the hands-on sources of CIA information.

American reporters are fortunate that the Mubarak/Suleiman Egyptian Constitutional Government actually issued statements against violence on Western reporters, holding back mortal violence against American propagandists whom Egyptian Intelligence could have incarcerated as spies working for the CIA. Whereas, an Egyptian reporter was killed.

Posted by: Plateau Plato at February 11, 2011 03:39 PM (H+LJc)

377 Lol. Listening the Schnitt Show. He's doing a hilarious "best of" Gibbsy.

Now he's doing the "Obama Stutter Symphony"......hilarious.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at February 11, 2011 03:39 PM (UOM48)

378
did he give a 'shout-out' to Chief Double Ended Dildo of the Muckluck tribe, yet?

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:39 PM (uFokq)

379 She(m)p Smith said he thought the President's Blackberry might have rung during his little speech for Gibbs. I'm still amazed that the Secret Service is okay with him having a Blackberry.

Posted by: Palandine at February 11, 2011 03:39 PM (g7D8V)

380 Oh, this is so rich... the gasbags on Al-Jism-ra are at once both playing bits of Barry's speech approvingly, and talking about the US policy of rendition of terrorist suspects to Egypt for interrogation... never asking clearly the question "Why didn't Barry stop rendition entlrely the very moment he became President?" All they can say is the Obama administration has a "difficult position." Al-Jism-ra is surreal.

Posted by: George Orwell at February 11, 2011 03:40 PM (AZGON)

381 Don't worry about Anderson Cooper, he's never met a fist he couldn't handle.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 11, 2011 03:40 PM (xMT+4)

382 Maybe it was all maskirova. Maybe Mubarak and the army ginned it up themselves to eliminate some troublemakers and avoid a bigger clusterfuck that was coming up.

Posted by: texette at February 11, 2011 03:40 PM (S/asU)

383 7.0 mag earthquake in Chili.

Well, I hope it at least shifted the earth rotation back to where it was because I am missing that .052 seconds we lost.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes, free logprof largely secular brotherhood at February 11, 2011 03:41 PM (xdHzq)

384 So is Mubarak under house arrest?

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:41 PM (0GFWk)

385 The anti-Pollyannas as you term them seem to be much more certain of the trajectory of history than the Pollyannas.

Because of human nature, ace. You want to see the future? Picture a jackboot stamping a human face - forever.

Totally unrelated, but I'm a size 10 in jackboots.

Democracy can ONLY be imposed at gunpoint. And that's the only way it can be preserved. In the world beyond our shores, power flows from the barrel of a gun. Who holds the guns in Egypt?

Now let's say these protesters are agitating for democracy. I don't think they are, but let's just say they are. Is it your reading of human nature that the military will voluntarily surrender their priveliged status, and turn over their own fates to the whims of the mob?

I strongly doubt democracy is the outcome, or even the desired outcome here. We haven't even gotten around to the fact that Egypt is a fucking shambles economically, living hand-to-mouth.

Who's more likely to garner more votes - a representative government or a strongman who blames who they want to hear blamed and promises food over freedom?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff, Chairman of the Nonpartisan Anti-nickless/logprof League at February 11, 2011 03:41 PM (9ytFL)

386 I'm still amazed that the Secret Service is okay with him having a Blackberry.
It's okay. He's just getting updated scores from espn.com. Nothing more and nothing less.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at February 11, 2011 03:41 PM (pLTLS)

387 Did Carter give a speech in '79? How did the liberal press react 32 years ago?
My geology teacher who was in the army said a MB takeover might not happen. comments? I've been at school, i need to catch up on this.
I will post this question over and over. I do not want ot be a spam troll but someone who lived through it answer please.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at February 11, 2011 03:41 PM (c5RQr)

388 "Similarly, at least three-quarters of Muslims in Egypt (85%), Nigeria (82%) and Jordan (76%) consider Islamic influence over political life to be a positive thing for their country, as do 69% of Muslims in Pakistan and 58% in Lebanon."
The above from a Pew poll.
Apparently the Egyptians likes the Islamic influence by quite a margin.

Posted by: Ronster on hunger strike 'til nickless is unbanned at February 11, 2011 03:42 PM (1F/m8)

389
Mubarak is probably in Italy with Berlusconi ass-fucking hairy Moroccan school girls.

He'll be back in Cairo by the end of February.

Posted by: dolphin-safe soothsayer at February 11, 2011 03:42 PM (uFokq)

390

And now, back to a laser like focus on jobs.

We're boned.

Posted by: toby928™: Popular Front for the Liberation of logprof at February 11, 2011 03:42 PM (GTbGH)

391 I will post this question over and over. I do not want ot be a spam troll but someone who lived through it answer please.
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at February 11, 2011 03:41 PM (c5RQr)

your in school? Open a book or google it

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:43 PM (0GFWk)

392 Posted by: Flapjackmaka
Information like that is concealed in things called "books".

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 11, 2011 03:43 PM (xMT+4)

393 Let me get this straight: Odumbass's first reaction to the uprising was "please turn the internet back on" and he is going to seek credit.

Hey, knock it off. Look, it interfered with my torrent files. I'm still trying to finish downloading all the episodes of "Turkish Star Trek."

Posted by: B. Hussein Obama at February 11, 2011 03:43 PM (AZGON)

394 Mubarak is way down in Carmel El Sheikh in the bottom of the Sinai.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 03:43 PM (SJ6/3)

395 Information like that is concealed in things called "books".

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 11, 2011 03:43 PM (xMT+4)

I like the way your mind works

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:44 PM (0GFWk)

396 "7.0
Date-TimeFriday, February 11, 2011 at 20:05:30 UTCFriday, February 11, 2011 at 05:05:30 PM at epicenter
Time of Earthquake in other Time Zones
Location36.432°S, 73.050°W
Depth18.4 km (11.4 miles)
RegionOFFSHORE BIO-BIO, CHILE
Distances 45 km (28 miles) N (360°) from Concepcion, Chile 164 km (102 miles) SW (229°) from Talca, Chile 260 km (162 miles) N (352°) from Temuco, Chile 392 km (243 miles) SSW (213°) from SANTIAGO, Chile
Location Uncertaintyhorizontal +/- 18.8 km (11.7 miles); depth +/- 2.3 km (1.4 miles)
ParametersNST=236, Nph=236, Dmin=525.4 km, Rmss=1.46 sec, Gp= 97°,
M-type="moment" magnitude from initial P wave (tsuboi method) (Mi/Mwp), Version=7
SourceUSGS NEIC (WDCS-D)"

Posted by: curious at February 11, 2011 03:44 PM (p302b)

397 That is a tremor for Chile.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 03:45 PM (SJ6/3)

398 your in school? Open a book or google it
Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:43 PM (0GFWk
---------------
I can't thats why I came here. Google is giving me nada.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at February 11, 2011 03:45 PM (c5RQr)

399 Does anyone know anything about who is replacing Gibbsy?

Posted by: Soona at February 11, 2011 03:46 PM (xb/Vp)

400 I will post this question over and over. I do not want ot be a spam troll but someone who lived through it answer please.
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at February 11, 2011 03:41 PM (c5RQr)
They were good with until the uhmm students took the hostages. Then all the press coverage was on the plight of the hostages and Carters heroic attempts to free them.
I have a feeling that the Iranian hostages will have spent less time in political captivity than nickless and logprof.

Posted by: robtr nickless liberation front at February 11, 2011 03:46 PM (hVDig)

401 "Similarly, at least three-quarters of Muslims in Egypt (85%), Nigeria (82%) and Jordan (76%) consider Islamic influence over political life to be a positive thing for their country, as do 69% of Muslims in Pakistan and 58% in Lebanon."
The above from a Pew poll.
Apparently the Egyptians likes the Islamic influence by quite a margin.
That is troubling considering the repressive nature of Islam, but to be fair- how many Americans would agree that "Christian influence over political life to be a positive thing for their country?".
I'd guess that if it wasn't a majority, it would be close.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 11, 2011 03:47 PM (SY2Kh)

402 Posted by: Flapjackmaka
------
And anyway.. who the hell bothered listening to Carter's speeches back then?

Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 11, 2011 03:47 PM (f9c2L)

403 btw, although I agree with them in this instance, how can you trust the swiss if they are going to freeze your accounts? I thought they were supposed to be totally independent.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes, free logprof largely secular brotherhood at February 11, 2011 03:47 PM (xdHzq)

404 >>>The chess match here is Iran and the Saudis. It's early in the game; time will tell who comes out on top. Sadly, all we can do now is watch, and hope for stalemate, as that's the only outcome that actually helps us right now (Suez security issues aside--that can get worked by other means).

What if Iran falls? I'm not predicting it but none of this was predicted.

I think right now that Iran and Saudi Arabia are worried about this outcome.

Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 03:48 PM (nj1bB)

405 Meanwhile, the Iranian Navy just docked in Jeddah...may seek permission to go through the Suez if things break nice for them...because they can.

Posted by: unknown jane at February 11, 2011 03:48 PM (5/yRG)

406 "Christian influence over political life to be a positive thing for their country?".

I'd guess that if it wasn't a majority, it would be close.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at February 11, 2011 03:47 PM (SY2Kh)

yeah but here it is just that an "influence" not Gov Policy. And Christianity along with Judaism has evolved since the Bible.

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:49 PM (0GFWk)

407 >>> btw, although I agree with them in this instance, how can you trust the swiss if they are going to freeze your accounts? I thought they were supposed to be totally independent.

A myth that serves the Swiss, I understand. The Swiss comply with legitimate law enforcement requests from foreign actors to seize and disclose the contents of safe deposit boxes. I think they even take an administrative skim from whatever gets turned over.

Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 03:49 PM (nj1bB)

408 I think right now that Iran and Saudi Arabia are worried about this outcome.
Don't forget Israel.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes, free logprof largely secular brotherhood at February 11, 2011 03:50 PM (xdHzq)

409 I've been asking about what happened with the shah thing and the hostages. Most people have no idea. Almost like they didn't realize things were happening until as one person put it "there they were, the blind folded hostages on the screen at the dinner table".

Posted by: curious at February 11, 2011 03:50 PM (p302b)

410 And anyway.. who the hell bothered listening to Carter's speeches back then?
Posted by: Chi-Town Jerry at February 11, 2011 03:47 PM (f9c2L)
================
Well he was the president, but did he give a speech that the media sucked up? What was the media's reaction 32 years ago?

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at February 11, 2011 03:50 PM (c5RQr)

411 Your Google-Fu is weak, Young Flapjacker.

Posted by: SurferDoc at February 11, 2011 03:51 PM (o3bYL)

412 What if Iran falls? I'm not predicting it but none of this was predicted. I think right now that Iran and Saudi Arabia are worried about this outcome.
Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 03:48 PM (nj1bB)
So far both of their armies have had no problem shooting disenters so I think it's less possible. I also think that even Bammy would back the Suadi Government. Then staying stable means a lot more to us than Egypt.

Posted by: robtr nickless liberation front at February 11, 2011 03:51 PM (hVDig)

413 I think right now that Iran and Saudi Arabia are worried about this outcome.
Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 03:48 PM (nj1bB)
Bloodbath in the streets.
The Iranian Army has a much deeper schism in their loyalties.
They will crack down in ways that the Egyptians would never have dreamed of.

Posted by: garrett at February 11, 2011 03:51 PM (6WmVb)

414 One thing to remember about the Saudis is they have enough money to buy off agitators or internal malefactors. They don't have to worry much. I heard someone interviewed on this a day or two ago, perhaps it was a former Bush official. I can't remember exactly who it was, though.

Posted by: George Orwell at February 11, 2011 03:51 PM (AZGON)

415 The Malaise speech?

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 03:51 PM (SJ6/3)

416 I think right now that Iran and Saudi Arabia are worried about this outcome.
Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 03:48 PM (nj1bB)

Saudi Arabia for sure but I don't think Syria or Iran is losing to much sleep. They are not going to "Influenced" by the Western Press not to be naughty to any protesters. Again this is War and the other side doesn't play by the same rules.

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:52 PM (0GFWk)

417 I think they even take an administrative skim from whatever gets turned over.
F'ing Scandis. Probably don't even like hobo bacon.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes, free logprof largely secular brotherhood at February 11, 2011 03:52 PM (xdHzq)

418 400
Does anyone know anything about who is replacing Gibbsy?

Posted by: Soona at February 11, 2011 03:46 PM (xb/Vp)
He's a lefty journalist. He was the DC Bureau chief for Times. His wife is Claire Shipman senior correspondent for GMA. And THATS why it's teh MFM.

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at February 11, 2011 03:52 PM (VgM+c)

419 Posted by: Flapjackmaka at February 11, 2011 03:50 PM (c5RQr)
Isn't there a Cheerleader nearby for you to get distracted by. it's Friday. Basketball Season, even.
Go chase some jailbait Polyester, kid.

Posted by: Mark Sanchez at February 11, 2011 03:53 PM (6WmVb)

420 Flapjack,

Is this the 'speech' you're interested in?

I think that you need to go to a library and do some reading. This list may help get your started. After you've gotten some background, you should pull up old microfiches from the usual suspects (WaPo, NYT for starters) and read the press spin for yourself.

Asking folks here, people you don't know whose biases you don't know, is not going to give you the data you need to answer your question.

Posted by: Y-not at February 11, 2011 03:53 PM (pW2o8)

421 Anyone ever heard of Google? It knows everything.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 03:53 PM (SJ6/3)

422 I just looked up swiss bank accounts on wikipedia: the laws about privacy are strong but not absolute. Judges can and do sign "lifting orders" removing bank secrecy in the appropriate case.

The Swiss apparently have among the safest-for-criminals banking laws in the world but they are not absolutely safe. Given sufficient proof they cooperate and suspend the usual rules of secrecy.

Posted by: ace at February 11, 2011 03:54 PM (nj1bB)

423 It was much easier to ignore Carter, before the 'net and 24-hour news coverage. The only speech of his that I remember is the "malaise" speech, which did wonders for his image.

Posted by: Luca Brasi at February 11, 2011 03:54 PM (YmPwQ)

424 Go to millercenter.org and search "carter" . Took me 20 seconds. (I'm an old fuck who has been out of school for 25 years.)


Posted by: SurferDoc at February 11, 2011 03:55 PM (o3bYL)

425 Just to give flapjackmaka a break: any relevant books are probably not available to him via the school library...we know how well gooooogle helps with anti-liberal info....
FJM--go toyouutuube with this search term:
jimmy carter iran hostage crisis

Posted by: Stillwater at February 11, 2011 03:56 PM (0GpN4)

426 406
Meanwhile, the Iranian Navy just docked in Jeddah...may seek permission
to go through the Suez if things break nice for them...because they can.

Did you read that in Debka? I'd wait for independent confirmation before freaking about about that.

Besides, the Iranian Navy is antiquated and like most ME Navies, lacks force projection. A few well-placed missiles will send what is left of the Iranian Navy to the depths of either the Red or Arabian Seas.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at February 11, 2011 03:56 PM (9hSKh)

427 FlapJack, I find your lack of internet skills disturbing.

Posted by: Darth Vader at February 11, 2011 03:56 PM (SJ6/3)

428 The Swiss apparently have among the safest-for-criminals banking laws in the world
What's their age of Consent?
related: How old is that Swiss Miss?

Posted by: Mark Sanchez at February 11, 2011 03:56 PM (6WmVb)

429 I'm going to sit back and see what happens in Egypt before I say anything about this being good or bad. But a little voice in the back of my head keeps saying "sharia".

Posted by: Soona at February 11, 2011 03:58 PM (xb/Vp)

430 Flapjack

Here is a collection of info on Carter's doings regarding the Shah and Iran

Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 11, 2011 03:58 PM (tf9Ne)

431 I'm going to sit back and see what happens in Egypt before I say anything about this being good or bad. But a little voice in the back of my head keeps saying "sharia".
Posted by: Soona at February 11, 2011 03:58 PM (xb/Vp)

Sharia Lewis, the babe with the puppets?

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:58 PM (0GFWk)

432 Is this the 'speech' you're interested in?
------------------
No but thanks. I was talking about when the Shah fell. What was Carter's reaction? Like Bambi's. That is all I ask. Thanks for the list I will check it out. I have been reading. I'm in the middle of Patriots History of the US and am at around 1910.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at February 11, 2011 03:58 PM (c5RQr)

433 FlapJack, I find your lack of internet skills disturbing.
Posted by: Darth Vader at February 11, 2011 03:56 PM (SJ6/3)
Sometimes I wonder why I even bothered to invent the Internet.

Posted by: Al Gore at February 11, 2011 03:58 PM (6WmVb)

434 Antone got Little Debbie's phone number?

Posted by: Roman Polanski at February 11, 2011 03:59 PM (SJ6/3)

435 I was talking about when the Shah fell. What was Carter's reaction?
His erection was weak. Barely turgid, and pale. Almost transluscent.

Posted by: Rosalynn Carter at February 11, 2011 04:00 PM (6WmVb)

436 Maybe it's not the CIA intelligence as a problem.
Intelligence gathering is information, no emotion no feeling just data. I guess to be handed over to the higher ups and interpreted. The interpretation seems to be the problem, not a lot of common sense and realization that we(U.S) do not think like people in the ME. We just don't, they don't and won't ever. Our logic is not the same as in the ME. Beginning with the fact that Islam is not for the individual it is for the collective.

Posted by: lions at February 11, 2011 04:00 PM (/vDzc)

437 No but thanks. I was talking about when the Shah fell. What was Carter's reaction? Like Bambi's. That is all I ask. Thanks for the list I will check it out. I have been reading. I'm in the middle of Patriots History of the US and am at around 1910.
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at February 11, 2011 03:58 PM (c5RQr)

The Shah. like Mubarak, was a long time American Ally who was unceremonially thrown under the Bus with out any consideration for what might come after him. Sound like anybody you know?

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 04:00 PM (0GFWk)

438
I'm leaving for Egypt immediately to console my good friend and ally Hosni Mubarak. He was not treated with the respect he deserved, and I will return to America with a plan to democratize Egypt, and find a suitable place for President Mubarak to live a comfortable life while contributing to the welfare of mankind as he did during his time in office.

Posted by: Jimmy Carter, Retired President and Sage at February 11, 2011 04:02 PM (ZHsNw)

439 I was talking about when the Shah fell. What was Carter's reaction?
Oh, you said reaction.
His reflexes were numbed from years of marijuana abuse. He also smelled strongly of Boiled Peanuts.

Posted by: Rosalynn Carter at February 11, 2011 04:02 PM (6WmVb)

440 From Doctor Gradus at Parnassum to Golliwog's Cakewalk all in a miniature of historical change Obama believes in.


February 11, 2011
Democrazy: Egypt and the Eternal Constitution
By Selwyn Duke
Thoroughly democrazy, they believe that democracy, a means to an end, is the end itself; they sometimes even behave as if it's a cure-all. The truth is that morality is the fertilizer of the tree of liberty, while the monster of tyranny feeds on man's vice. The problem is that a people may want better than what they are, but they cannot be better than what they are. Democracy is no guarantor of good government. Egyptians may get the vote and Islamists may get the power -- and the demo-crazies may nevertheless break out cigars. And the Mideast may go up in smoke. But the utopians among us miss an important truth: There is no happily ever after this side of the great divide. Foreign policy, arranging and perpetuating civilization, and maintaining peace are never-ending poker games; you play the hand you're dealt, and sometimes the best you can manage is a pragmatic dictator, pacified and paid for -- and always provisional. Something must be remembered about a government of the people, by the people and for the people: It will look like the people. So the question is, does Egyptians' collective face look better than Mubarak? If the answer is no, you're better off keeping him than agitating for a republic that wouldn't be kept long, anyway.


Posted by: Transitional Democrazy at February 11, 2011 04:02 PM (H+LJc)

441 Here is a collection of info on Carter's doings regarding the Shah and Iran
------
Thanks. I wonder if the press will be able to make butthole's poll numbers rise by making this look like the berlin wall.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at February 11, 2011 04:02 PM (c5RQr)

442 Besides, the Iranian Navy is antiquated and like most ME Navies, lacks force projection.
But they have Flying boats. How do we beat those?



Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 11, 2011 04:04 PM (tf9Ne)

443 Iran was largely secular before the Islamic Revolution.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 04:04 PM (SJ6/3)

444 posted by: FlaviusJulius
And largely dead afterward.

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 11, 2011 04:05 PM (xMT+4)

445 The Shah. like Mubarak, was a long time American Ally who was unceremonially thrown under the Bus with out any consideration for what might come after him. Sound like anybody you know?\
---------------------
Thank you. That is what I wanted to know. Which was if the Shah was being supported or not thanks. I should read up on it. But I did search the iranian revolution on youtube. Don't the protests seem a bit different? The iran one was clearly pro islamic but the egypt one was just some mass riot wanting one person to leave.

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at February 11, 2011 04:05 PM (c5RQr)

446 Besides, the Iranian Navy is antiquated and like most ME Navies, lacks force projection.

But they have Flying boats. How do we beat those?



Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 11, 2011 04:04 PM (tf9Ne)

I'd like to take a shot at them with my Phalanx CIWS

Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 04:05 PM (0GFWk)

447 427 No, straight from Iranian based news reports, and then I followed up with reading a piece off HA's Green Room. They are there, happened this week -- a "peace promoting mission".

Posted by: unknown jane at February 11, 2011 04:05 PM (5/yRG)

448 How do we beat those?
Sharks with frickin' Lasers.

Posted by: Zionist Sea Lab 2011 at February 11, 2011 04:06 PM (6WmVb)

449 427 Anything from Debka I try to find something else to back it up -- sometimes they really get a scoop, but then other times, well, they aren't completely reliable.

Posted by: unknown jane at February 11, 2011 04:07 PM (5/yRG)

450 The flying boats look more like a carnival ride then a dread weapon.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 04:07 PM (SJ6/3)

451 ...and payes!

Posted by: Zionist Sea Lab 2011 at February 11, 2011 04:08 PM (6WmVb)

452 444 Iran was largely secular before the Islamic Revolution.
Part of the Shah's attempt to modernize the country. Egypt has a much shorter distance to fall to equal today's Iran.

Posted by: maddogg at February 11, 2011 04:08 PM (OlN4e)

453 I'm going to sit back and see what happens in Egypt before I say anything about this being good or bad. But a little voice in the back of my head keeps saying "sharia". Posted by: Soona at February 11, 2011 03:58 PM (xb/Vp) Sharia Lewis, the babe with the puppets?
Posted by: nevergiveup at February 11, 2011 03:58 PM (0GFWk)

Now that I think about it, "Lamb Chops" would go over well there. But she'd have to constantlyguard her hand for fear of someone chopping it off and eating it. Muslims have no imagination.

Posted by: Soona at February 11, 2011 04:09 PM (xb/Vp)

454 The Iranian Navy is antiquated -- compared to us, but how about other ME navies? This isn't about us...just yet.

Posted by: unknown jane at February 11, 2011 04:09 PM (5/yRG)

455 Maybe we should be supporting The Mutton Brotherhood?

Posted by: Lincolntf at February 11, 2011 04:10 PM (xMT+4)

456 Sharks with frickin' Lasers.

Won't work. They have supersonic underwater missiles guarding the coastline.

Here's proof, too! This link will take you straight to DU

Posted by: jwb7605 at February 11, 2011 04:13 PM (Qxe/p)

457 But they have Flying boats.
How do we beat those?


Flyswatters?

Posted by: kidney at February 11, 2011 04:13 PM (ENRGu)

458 The Iranian Navy is antiquated -- compared to us, but how about other ME navies? This isn't about us...just yet.
Posted by: unknown jane at February 11, 2011 04:09 PM (5/yRG)

But it's about Dear Leader. He said so. We're in this.

Posted by: Soona at February 11, 2011 04:13 PM (xb/Vp)

459 Weeks ago when I read of Suleiman, I realized he would ascend to power.

Now at this point, people should realize that the Egyptian pride and affection for their military is BECAUSE their Mubarak Military never attacked the Egyptian people.

Now that the people succeeded in removing Mubarak and demanding that their Army be burdened to replace police and intelligence while simultaneously maintaining its traditional and constitutional role protecting Egypt from invasion, expectations are unrealistic.

There's always the human factor, compounded now with malleable protocol. When people misbehave publicly and the military interpret such as a threat to domestic security or military security, the people's pride and affection for their military will change, to never be the same again, when the Egyptian Army fires upon Egyptians in the streets.


Posted by: Transitional Democrazy at February 11, 2011 04:14 PM (H+LJc)

460 I missed the Pro Bowl.

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 04:15 PM (SJ6/3)

461 /off

Posted by: Plateau Plato at February 11, 2011 04:15 PM (H+LJc)

462 455
The Iranian Navy is antiquated -- compared to us, but how about other ME navies? This isn't about us...just yet.

I'd say the Saudi Navy is better equiped than the Iranian one, and the Israeli Navy is definitely better than both.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at February 11, 2011 04:15 PM (9hSKh)

463 Here's the latest version of the Flying Boats...supposedly stealth but they look like something from the Everglades.

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at February 11, 2011 04:15 PM (VgM+c)

464 Posted by: Transitional Democrazy at February 11, 2011 04:14 PM (H+LJc)

So far that hasn't happened. There's no reason (yet) to believe it will.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 11, 2011 04:16 PM (8y9MW)

465 The Iranian Navy is antiquated -- compared to us,

Iran has arrangements with China.

Posted by: Plateau Plato at February 11, 2011 04:17 PM (H+LJc)

466 So the question is: how long will the military hold power and will they set up elections?

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at February 11, 2011 04:17 PM (c5RQr)

467 The Iranian Navy is antiquated -- compared to us, but how about other ME navies? This isn't about us...just yet.



We all noticed the M1A tanks Egypt had well they have some of our navy tech too. I'm not a Navy guy so I have no clue what this means though.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at February 11, 2011 04:18 PM (tf9Ne)

468 So far that hasn't happened. There's no reason (yet) to believe it will.
Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 11, 2011 04:16 PM (8y9MW)
Really? Who is going to keep law and order?

Posted by: robtr nickless liberation front at February 11, 2011 04:19 PM (hVDig)

469 Now all we have to worry about is Yemen, Tunesia, Morrocco..........

Posted by: Soona at February 11, 2011 04:20 PM (xb/Vp)

470 Iran has arrangements with China.
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Posted by: Chinese Naval Hardware for Sale at February 11, 2011 04:24 PM (6WmVb)

471 Sigh...the Iranian Navy just made a Saudi port their cruise destination this week -- first time ever. This after teh idiot in chief gets into pissing match with Saudi king (who is a bit nervous over the events in Egypt to say the least) over Hosni. On top of that the Iranians have apparently hinted (or are at least in a position to) use the Suez IF things break right for them (ehem, El Baradei ring a bell? and what's he up to today? whose got ties to him?). They've also been making some noise in Lebanon too lately, haven't they? And then there are some reports that they made Erithrea a port of call lately -- possibly off loaded some missles and troops (although that's just intelligence speculation).
So...no they don't have a force projecting, deep water navy...but maybe they don't need that for what they are doing, no?

Posted by: unknown jane at February 11, 2011 04:25 PM (5/yRG)

472 How are things in Carthage?

Posted by: FlaviusJulius at February 11, 2011 04:25 PM (SJ6/3)

473 So the question is: how long will the military hold power and will they set up elections?
Posted by: Flapjackmaka at February 11, 2011 04:17 PM (c5RQr)

I have two questions: Is there a beloved muslim leader in exile getting ready to return? And....do we have a good evacuation plan for our embassy?

Posted by: Soona at February 11, 2011 04:25 PM (xb/Vp)

474 466 Those arrangements with China don't concern me a hell of a lot, for now. But I don't think we should view this as a mano a mano thing so much as a bit of diplomatic influence peddling -- and that is where the danger of it all lies, for now.

Posted by: unknown jane at February 11, 2011 04:27 PM (5/yRG)

475 Is there a beloved muslim leader in exile getting ready to return?
Too soon?

Posted by: Ayman Al Zawahiri at February 11, 2011 04:27 PM (6WmVb)

476 459 Dear Leader is interjecting himself in a most bumbling way -- which may lead to it being about us (as opposed to just el stupido grande). Is that better?

Posted by: unknown jane at February 11, 2011 04:29 PM (5/yRG)

477 Posted by: robtr nickless liberation front at February 11, 2011 04:19 PM (hVDig)

Ummm... the police? I haven't heard that they'd disbanded all the other functions of the civilian government, just the cabinet and legislature. IDK, but if it were me, I'd try to keep things as much the same as they had been as possible.

Even if I were looking to maintain power, I'd edge into it very, very slowly.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 11, 2011 04:32 PM (8y9MW)

478 I have two questions: Is there a beloved muslim leader in exile getting ready to return? And....do we have a good evacuation plan for our embassy?
-----------
Is there an answer to the first?

Posted by: Flapjackmaka at February 11, 2011 04:33 PM (c5RQr)

479 Hussein Tantawi?

Vice President Suleiman — who appears to have lost his post as well in the military takeover — appeared grim as he delivered the short announcement. "In these grave circumstances that the country is passing through, President Hosni Mubarak has decided to leave his position as president of the republic," he said. "He has mandated the Armed Forces Supreme Council to run the state. God is our protector and succor." AFSC, the military's top body consists of its highest ranking generals and is headed by Defense Minister Field Marshal Hussein Tantawi.


Posted by: Plateau Plato at February 11, 2011 04:33 PM (H+LJc)

480 Why was Obama all over our ALLY in Egpyt, buy SILENT when dealing with our ENERMY Iran during their protests?

Posted by: Dan at February 11, 2011 04:34 PM (mXBxH)

481 Posted by: Dan at February 11, 2011 04:34 PM (mXBxH)

Because he's a typical Bully/Coward. Those who really oppose him he avoids out of fear. Then he's all the more aggressive towards those who won't oppose him, to help his own self___.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at February 11, 2011 04:36 PM (8y9MW)

482 Iran could be really messy. IIRC, during the "Green Revolution" the regular Iranian military pretty openly stated that it wouldn't fire on the demonstrators even if it was ordered to. But this is largely what you'd expect: under the traditional dictatorship model, you rely on the palace guards to protect the regime by shooting the demonstrators or the regular army if necessary. In the Iranian case that would be the Revolutionary Guard and probably the morality police. The "interesting" question is what it would take to get the regular military to jump off the fence and take on the Revolutionary Guard. Shooting enough demonstrators might do it: probably nobody really knows and nobody really wants to find out.

(And apparently the Revolutionary Guard might also be a bit of a mixed bag: if you believe Amir Taheri, some of the Guard units are actually parts of the Shah's state-security apparatus which just quietly switched sides when the Shah lost control of the state. So they might not really be up for fighting to the last man for the Islamic Revolution either.)

Posted by: anonymous irishman at February 11, 2011 04:37 PM (DJgfL)

483 Hussein Tantawi, Nubian

Commands included military attaché to Pakistan and participated in the First Gulf War with coalition forces.
Field Marshall and Commander-In-Chief of the Army
Defense Minister and Military Production



Posted by: Plateau Plato at February 11, 2011 04:41 PM (H+LJc)

484 Pressure goes on the Saudis and Iran not now but when Egypt votes, assuming that happens. At some point there could be two middle easts: a set of fragile democracies and a set of dictators trying to squash domestic democracy. And that's just a weight station to an entire Middle East of fragile democracies thanks to technology (thugs can hold back technology for only so long before work arounds are developed).
Everyone knows O is going to take credit today and if it goes bad tomorrow he'll deny any involvement in any of it. It's called integrity and you can't buy it at Wal Mart. Not that he cares.

Posted by: East Bay Jay at February 11, 2011 04:42 PM (ocHBO)

485 So the new transitional Military Government of Egypt is directed with a strong Pakistani alliance.

Given US drone bombing of Pakistan in the Afghan War, what "demands" will Tantawi make to the US Military on behalf of Pakistan?

Posted by: Plateau Plato at February 11, 2011 04:44 PM (H+LJc)

486 Is there a beloved muslim leader in exile getting ready to return?

You had me at 'beloved'...

Posted by: Barry The H! at February 11, 2011 04:45 PM (FcR7P)

487 Dan:

1) Obama's general learning curve 2) Mubarak was more obviously toast than the Iranian regime 3) Obama thought he was that close to reaching the Grand Bargain With Iran mirage 3a) so soon after the Iraq insurgency and the US election (and before the Grand Bargain mirage disappeared again) the popularity of the "New Realism" was still red-hot.

Oh, and I'd be a bit more shy about boasting of "our ALLY in Egpyt" if I were you.

Posted by: anonymous irishman at February 11, 2011 04:53 PM (DJgfL)

488 @34: "I heard something on the radio news about thousands of Tunisians going to Italy?"
Wait 'til they get a load of me!

Posted by: Zombie Fabius Cunctator at February 11, 2011 05:26 PM (xy9wk)

489 Our logic is not the same as in the ME. Beginning
with the fact that Islam is not for the individual it is for the
collective.




Posted by: lions at February 11, 2011 04:00 PM (/vDzc)
Believe me, I'm working on that.

Posted by: Barry the lecturer at February 11, 2011 06:00 PM (DCpHZ)

490 471 Posted by: Chinese Naval Hardware for Sale at February 11, 2011 04:24 PM (6WmVb)


Just wanted to say that this was the single funniest thing I read all day today. Srsly....I love you guys!

Posted by: lace whig at February 11, 2011 06:40 PM (+OP3J)

491 Robocop was also Buckaroo Banzai...Is there anything that guy can't do?

Posted by: KZnextzone at February 11, 2011 09:01 PM (ZUWaD)

492
I’m not sure if one should take a step back or look with a magnifying glass for the results of the trouble in Egypt.
What is clear is that Mubarak has resigned and the military is in control.
But is that a good thing or a bad thing ? Who knows ? … and is it really any different ?
We
now know that Mubarak has terminal cancer, so something closely
approximating this would have happened before long anyway, so … what ?
The
last time something like this happened in Honduras, the Obama
Administration condemned it … but now, Egypt is in the “Hope and Change”
rapture which we know will quickly be replaced with something much
less.
If this is Obama being “right” .. being “wrong” must not be much different.

Posted by: Hosni Mubarak at February 12, 2011 12:42 PM (tvs2p)

493 Iranians aren't going to ever rise up and overthrow their tyranical leaders. The only people in that country who have the balls to take control of their own destinies are the tyrants who are now alreadyrunning that country. The rest are just bleating sheep, and their leades know it.

Posted by: Brian at February 13, 2011 06:41 AM (sYrWB)

494 To help you become an accomplished research paper writer, you will prepare several research papers based upon the studies completed in research lab. Our research papers are not typical "lab reports." In a teaching lab a lab research paper report might be nothing more than answers to a set of research questions. Such an assignment hardly represents the kind of research paper writing you might be doing in your eventual career. A major goal of this custom research paper writing is the development of effective technical research paper writing skills.

Our expert custom research paper writers provide a range of research paper help; they’re perfect to ensure YOU get a top degree mark. Don’t let your research paper pull you down after you’ve invested so much into your university course. If someone is eager to discover the long awaited research degree and just a step away from it and that step is research paper writing, then one should acquire professional help for getting satisfactory outcome. So to take professional editing help for your papers' approval is not a bad idea.

Written and oral communications skills are probably the most universal qualities sought by graduate and professional schools as well as by employers. You alone are responsible for developing such skills to a high level. UK research paper buy research paper online online MBA research paper college research paper writing service marketing research papers buy UK research paper college paper writing masters research paper writing want to buy college research paper PhD research writing help college research paper writing help buying research paper online buy online MBA research paper buy UK research paper online research paper samples business research papers custom research paper writing best MBA research paper writing service want to buy research paper buy PhD research paper online law research papers PhD research writing undergraduate research paper graduate research paper purchase research paper online history research paper where to buy MBA research paper research paper to buy economics research paper arts research paper buy custom UK research paper medical research paper science research paper physics research paper buy help for research paper biology research paper An objective of organizing a research paper is to allow people to read your work selectively. When I research a topic, I may be interested in just the methods, a specific result, the interpretation, or perhaps I just want to see a summary of the paper to determine if it is relevant to my study. To this end, many journals require the following sections, submitted in the order listed, each section to start on a new page.

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Posted by: Mary at May 07, 2011 02:43 PM (U12mJ)

495 It's right here that yesterday in Bible study we were discussing what evil angels do, and the topic came around to discrimination. I said there are two kinds of research paper discrimination. The first is what we think of usually - when we make judgments based on what doesn't matter, like not voting for somebody because of their race or gender research paper. That's bad discrimination. But there is discrimination that's good and necessary. For instance, "You have no way to pay this loan back; therefore I'm not going to give it to you." When we don't properly discriminate, evil thrives research paper.

I explained that the KGB wanted to get rich, powerful people in media, education, and business to believe it would be good to have a society with NO discrimination research paper. That doesn't just mean we don't have the bad discrimination, but also that we don't have the good discrimination. So there's no difference between those who work and those who don't, research paper those who make sound choices and those who don't, etc. Everyone is guaranteed the same outcome regardless of what they do. Nothing we do matters research paper. That's what communism is, and people who live under it often end up alcoholics or an average of 6 abortions in their lifetime. If what we do doesn't matter, we lose the will to live. That's the legacy of communism research paper.

I mentioned that Yuri Bezmenov was amazed at how the openly-communist folks from the '60's are in control of media, education, and business. And wherever someone totally controls the flow of ideas research paper, it's ripe for the devil and his surrogates to lie and deceive. As long as the realities of life and the truth are observable to everyone, we're not going to wander too far from reality research paper. But when the truth is hidden, people can't learn from reality.

Then I made my fatal error. I mentioned that all of the news companies have the proof that Obama is a member of The New Party - a branch of the Democratic Socialists of America research paper. I was going to say that they won't let anyone know that truth research paper. We can make our choices for whatever reason we think best, but when someone needs to deceive us, evil is at work and we need to watch out.

Before I could finish, though, a lady jumped up waving her arms and shouting that we shouldn't talk about this in church. Church is for how we're supposed to become better people research paper. Then she and her husband stormed out.

Later, someone commented that the devil can work wherever he wants to, and if we refuse to consider his role in any area of our life, we give him free rein there research paper. Another added, "I think it was clear that the devil was right here in Bible study - and didn't like being recognized." It's right here.

Posted by: Mary at May 07, 2011 02:45 PM (U12mJ)






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