Question: Did the Rhetoric of the Abortion-Absolutist Left Encourage Kermitt Gosnell?

I've asked this before. I'll ask it again.

Since we're talking about how absolutist, hard-edged rhetoric can encourage murder, and suggest to the infirm or ruthless that their evils are permissible and even laudatory: Was Kermitt Gosnell encouraged by a "climate of hate" regarding unwanted babies?

Seems like if the media wants to talk about rhetorical incitements to murder, they have a pretty good reason to do so here.

But that's a question they'll never ask; they're not even willing to restate the conclusions of the grand jury, which is that pro-abortion politics caused state officials to turn a blind eye to a horror in plain sight.

I continue to be amazed (I shouldn't be, but I am) that they simply will not report that high government officials have "lawyered up" rather than answer the grand jury's perfectly justified questions.

Michelle Malkin is worth reading. She already noted the go-to meme:

Already, left-wing journalists and activists have rushed to explain that these abortion atrocities ignored for four decades by abortion radicals and rationalizers are not really about abortion. A Time magazine writer argued that the Philadelphia Horror was about poverty, not Roe V. Wade. A University of Minnesota professor declared: This is not about abortion.

But the grand jury itself pointed out that loosened oversight of abortion clinics enacted under pro-choice former GOP governor Tom Ridge enabled Gosnells criminal enterprise and led to the heartless execution of hundreds of babies. Mass murder got a pass in the name of expanding access and appeasing abortion lobbyists. As the report made clear: With the change of administration from [pro-life Democrat] Governor Casey to Governor Ridge, government health officials concluded that inspections would be putting a barrier up to women seeking abortions. Better to leave clinics to do as they pleased, even though, as Gosnell proved, that meant both women and babies would pay.

Are you quite sure it's not about abortion? Because, if'n I have this all right, women sought abortions from an abortion mill and received them from an abortion doctor who performed abortions and is charged with 33 counts of illegal late-term abortions (in addition to other double-secret abortions which have been charged as murder) and the grand jury stated that abortion politics -- specifically pro-abortion politics -- caused the state medical and health bureaucracy to stop inspecting abortion clinics and not pursue complaints about negligence in conducting abortions because of their fear of how such scrutiny about abortions would play within the pro-abortion community.

I'm just an ordinary workin' feller but I'm gonna take a flyer and posit that maybe this had something to do with abortion.

Here's a test: If you are unable to explain the facts and charges without mentioning the word "abortion," guess what, it's a story about abortion.

The Anchoress notes the power of The Narrative here, too:

It[']s funny how framing works. A massacre perpetrated by a deranged man is not about the deranged man; its about rhetoric. But a massacre perpetrated by an abortion provider whose violations against laws of the nation and of humanity were overlooked for years is not about abortion. Its about criminal behavior, and thats all. But some of our most prominent politicians have voted against the very bill the born alive bill that defines such behavior as criminal. Meaning, I guess, that if only enough politicians had voted with Sen. Barack Obama, Gosnells behavior would not be criminal at all, and therefore we wouldnt even be talking about it?

A shooting isn't a shooting, it's about right-wing rhetoric, but a story about a gonzo abortion murderer aided and abetted by pro-abortion state officials turns out to not be a story about either abortion or murder or the high government officials the grand jury says aided and abetted the crimes, but about... access to quality health care for the poor.

Posted by: Ace at 03:23 PM



Comments

1 No, by a racist "climate of hate" regarding unwanted babies.

Posted by: t-bird at January 21, 2011 02:44 PM (FcR7P)

2 Gah!!! Post Overload!!!

Can we get at least 15 minutes between posts, please?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 21, 2011 02:44 PM (8y9MW)

3 which is that pro-life politics caused state officials to turn a blind eye to a horror in plain sight
What?

Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 21, 2011 03:22 PM (4ucxv)

4 Yes. Clearly.

Posted by: Ben at January 21, 2011 03:25 PM (wuv1c)

5 I think you mean Pro-Choice politics, Ace

Posted by: taylork at January 21, 2011 03:26 PM (0Hn5w)

6 We should have a ban on large scissors in abortion clinics. That would solve the problem.

Posted by: Gun Control Advocates at January 21, 2011 03:26 PM (TpXEI)

7 Re: HeatherRadish

I think we have a typo.

Posted by: David Shane at January 21, 2011 03:26 PM (T8c0z)

8 Was Kermit using a gun? Case closed.

Next!

Posted by: The MFM at January 21, 2011 03:27 PM (GwPRU)

9 sorry about the typo... yeah, pro-abortion.

Posted by: ace at January 21, 2011 03:28 PM (nj1bB)

10 OT:


From the comments section at NY POST:
Am I the only one that finds it ironic that the 2009 Nobel Peace
Prize winner is holding a State dinner for the man that imprisoned the
2010 winner?

Posted by: Cherry π at January 21, 2011 03:29 PM (+sBB4)

11 They were simply medical procedures.

Posted by: Josef Mengele at January 21, 2011 03:29 PM (rdtls)

12 The pro-abortion crowd spends every waking moment telling us that a fetus isn't a baby. It's just a glob of cells, or "the products of conception," or a parasite, and thus is has absolutely no legal rights, and can be killed - er, "terminated" - at any point before it exits the birth canal.

Now they're telling us that their relentless dehumanization of human beings that has yet to be born has no connection to the fact that a man has taken these globs of cells, pulled them out of the womb, and killed them.

Right.

Posted by: Masturbatin' Pete at January 21, 2011 03:32 PM (44WE/)

13 Jill seems to think it's all about the rhetoric which, despite Roe v. Wade, has forced abortions into back alleys.

"Gosnells clinic hadnt been reviewed by the Department of Health in 15 years.
Members of his staff were unlicensed and not properly trained. And
Gosnell knew that he could get away with offering sub-par care to women
who he thought were less likely to complain young women, immigrants,
poor women and women of color."

15 years ago...Tom Ridge....

Posted by: Quilly Mammoth at January 21, 2011 03:33 PM (rdtls)

14 We're too busy making sure that McDonald's down the street is safe to check on these clinics.

Posted by: Pennsylvania Dept of Health at January 21, 2011 03:35 PM (tf9Ne)

15 This one stinks to high heaven.

This physician was hit with ten malpractice suits (at least).

He is required to report these suits on his re-application for a medical license, which comes up every two years in PA.

So either he deliberately lied about these suits on his medical license renewal application, or nobody on the State Board for PA bothered to think that having ten malpractice suits was a good grounds to investigate.

I don't even know how this guy managed to get malpractice insurance (assuming he even did).

Posted by: looking closely at January 21, 2011 03:35 PM (6Q9g2)

16 10
OT:From the comments section at NY POST:
Am I the only one that finds it ironic that the 2009 Nobel Peace
Prize winner is holding a State dinner for the man that imprisoned the
2010 winner?

Yeah, that particular statement seems to have originated with Ann Althouse yesterday, though no one is sure if it goes further back than that.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 21, 2011 03:35 PM (w28+K)

17 Gosnells clinic hadnt been reviewed by the Department of Health in 15 years.


Likely because no one wanted to risk the wrath of the "pro-choice" crowd by doing so.

Who's the young woman who poses as an underage girl to see if abortion clinics obey the law in regard to reporting statutory rape? Go see how they react to her to get an idea how they would react to a health department trying to close down a "reproductive choice clinic".

Posted by: Rob Crawford at January 21, 2011 03:36 PM (ZJ/un)

18 I remember the day Obama did one of his rare actual interviews during the 2008 campaign and denied voting against the Born Alive Act even with Roe-V-Wade protection. Its the angriest I have ever seen Obama to this day. He called others LIARS for saying he did. He was yelling. It was taped. The next morning his campaign came out to admit Barack was mistaken on his own voting record on a bill that eventually passed 99-0. It turned out he was the liar.
The entire media ignored the story including Fox News. I knew it was over at that point. For me, its the most damaging story of his entire campaign. Worse then Rev Wright. It just was not covered, so it never happened.

Posted by: Keven at January 21, 2011 03:37 PM (is/Ek)

19 I honestly would have more respect for the abortion absolutists if they would come out and defend Gosnell.

Instead, we are treated to the spectacle of people telling us that there is nothing legally or morally wrong with killing a baby that's halfway out of the womb, but killing a baby that's a millimeter out of its mother is murder.

Enough sophistry, assholes. If you're going to defend infanticide, then fucking defend infanticide.

Posted by: Masturbatin' Pete at January 21, 2011 03:37 PM (44WE/)

20 Yeah, gee, why isn't the head of PP on every single morning show having to prove that pro-abortionism DIDN'T "cause" this?

This is not about abortion.


Funny, that. Story about an abortionist giving abortions in an abortion mill, and all.

Through the looking glass, all of us.

Posted by: All the Poor Souls in Purgatory at January 21, 2011 03:38 PM (t+B38)

21 So either he deliberately lied about these suits on his medical license
renewal application, or nobody on the State Board for PA bothered to
think that having ten malpractice suits was a good grounds to
investigate.

According to the grand jury, the legal counsel of one group which decided against investigating the death of a patient circa 2000 said that a woman dying while getting an abortion is nothing special.

I don't have the exact quote, which was listed in a Hotair post, but it was just chilling to read.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 21, 2011 03:38 PM (w28+K)

22 I remember the day Obama did one of his rare actual interviews during
the 2008 campaign and denied voting against the Born Alive Act even with
Roe-V-Wade protection. Its the angriest I have ever seen Obama to this
day. He called others LIARS for saying he did. He was yelling. It was
taped. The

Any idea if that video made it to YouTube?

Posted by: Rob Crawford at January 21, 2011 03:38 PM (ZJ/un)

23
The Left, feminists in particular, certainly gave Gosnell license to treat unborn babies as less-than-human.

Posted by: Soothsayer Helper at January 21, 2011 03:38 PM (uFokq)

24 21


Found that quote.

From an AP article:
Complaints about Gosnell to state regulators went nowhere, even though
46 lawsuits including one over the death of a 22-year-old woman in
2000 had been filed against him. In its report, the grand jury quoted
the departments chief counsel as saying there was nothing suspicious
about a female patients death because people die.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 21, 2011 03:40 PM (w28+K)

25
Gosnell is the Mike Vick of abortions.


Posted by: Soothsayer Helper at January 21, 2011 03:40 PM (uFokq)

26 ummm, no because Palin would make all abortions illegal so therefore Gosnell had to murder babies with scissors. Man, you conservatives are dumb. Also, Bush cut spending in some way (I am sure) while raising the deficit (which was bad back then) which led to Pennsylvania being unable to afford to enforce its laws.

So, really, it comes down to Palin and Bush 43.

Signed,
XXOO
a bunch of crazy libs.

Posted by: joeindc44 at January 21, 2011 03:44 PM (QxSug)

27 Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 21, 2011 03:40 PM (w28+K)

Okay, that line, completely with the names of the chief counsel and whatever experts he cited needs to get out there RIGHT NOW.

We've already blown a hole in "rare." It's time to blow a (government sanctioned, no less) hole in "safe." Maybe then we can sink the battleship: "legal."

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 21, 2011 03:45 PM (8y9MW)

28 I'm sorry but this is just downright terrifying. It's got to be the worst case of "Don't believe your own lying eyes" I have ever seen.

Posted by: Filly at January 21, 2011 03:45 PM (t+B38)

29 Who's the young woman who poses as an underage girl to see if abortion
clinics obey the law in regard to reporting statutory rape?
Lila Rose.

Actually, Ace's typo seems like something I expect to hear if there's ever any coverage of the trial: Evil "anti-choicers" insisted those clumps of cells are really babies, thus incited restrictions on abortion and thus "forced" those women to seek out Kermit the Butcher instead of popping down to a "respectable" clinic for the Extraction and Botox Weekend Package.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 21, 2011 03:45 PM (4ucxv)

30 #15

OK, I just read about the PA Board of Medicine in the indictment and its FAR worse than what I thought. They had specific reports of malpractice, including cases involving patient death, and they ignored all of them.

Ouch.



Posted by: looking closely at January 21, 2011 03:46 PM (6Q9g2)

31 Posted by: looking closely at January 21, 2011 03:46 PM (6Q9g2)

Wouldn't it be funny if the survivors of those victims sued the PA Board of Medicine for Wrongful Death?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 21, 2011 03:47 PM (8y9MW)

32 The Palin family's violence-themed pregnancies coarsened fetal discourse and...
Yeah, won't work. But if it were my job to make it work, I could. And there are people whose job that is.
However, there are a lot reasons for this not to be a Story, even though it's HUGE, so it'll wind up understood as a kind of pro-life urban legend/conspiracy theory.
I really do think it's racism this timethat this is a story of racially motivated mass murder (really)and it's so in a way that fits amazingly well with a bunch of shit lefties say ("institutional!") but don't believe.
If Cain really wants to be President someday (2016-ish), making this story widely understood the way he understands it would be a good start.

Posted by: oblig. at January 21, 2011 03:48 PM (x7Ao8)

33 A Time magazine writer argued that the Philadelphia Horror was about
poverty, not Roe V. Wade. A University of Minnesota professor declared:
This is not about abortion.

I don't get the whole "these were poor women" meme/excuse. Poor women get abortions all the friggin' time. What the hell does this story have to do with the financial situation these women were in?

*yes, I realize it's to change the subject.

Posted by: Tami at January 21, 2011 03:49 PM (VuLos)

34
OK, I just read about the PA Board of Medicine in the indictment
and its FAR worse than what I thought. They had specific reports of
malpractice, including cases involving patient death, and they ignored
all of them.

Of course. Imagine the firestorm of trying to close a "reproductive choice clinic that primarily serves the poor and minority communities".

Posted by: Rob Crawford at January 21, 2011 03:49 PM (ZJ/un)

35 I've avoided comment on this topic, because of the level of disgust it creates in me, but I feel the need to say this one thing:

The 'slippery slope' keeps coming up because...it too often is true.

Posted by: AoSHQ's DarkLord at January 21, 2011 03:49 PM (GBXon)

36 27


The Grand Jury report, where that quote originates, is linked below.

The quote in question comes from Christine Dutton, the chief counsel for the PA Department of Health's Division of Home Health, on page 18.

http://tinyurl.com/4737pb7

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 21, 2011 03:49 PM (w28+K)

37 Well, the MFM has an out on this one, if it can be blamed on a GOP governor.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at January 21, 2011 03:50 PM (081kp)

38 I think we can have robotic baby head piercings in a few years. I'm looking for some GE funding.

Posted by: Inventing Stuff at January 21, 2011 03:50 PM (EL+OC)

39 why are these abortion hags making this about them? They should just let us slag them without defending themselves!

no class whores.

Posted by: joeindc44 at January 21, 2011 03:51 PM (QxSug)

40 this keeps getting bounced for annoying reasons. but i am trying to tell you, Ace, that i said the same thing guest blogging over at patterico's a few days ago. my name should have a link to the post in question. if not just look for the only post written about this butcher named kermit.

Posted by: Aaron Worthing at January 21, 2011 03:51 PM (343LO)

41 #21 24

You can fool a grand jury about this stuff, but you should not be able to fool a medical board consisting entirely of doctors and other senior health professionals whose State-sponsored job it is specifically to find and remove physicians like this butcher from practice.

I actually know one of the State Board physicians in my State (SC) and let me tell, if he even caught a whiff of a doctor doing something like this he'd have the guys license to practice suspended instantly.

But then again, there are currently ZERO legal abortion providers in my part of the State!




Posted by: looking closely at January 21, 2011 03:52 PM (PwGfd)

42 22-Rob crawford------

He wasn't quite as angry as I remembered. Crap. Anyway, here is the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Skq5M1Ksp_cfeature=relatede video...

Posted by: Keven at January 21, 2011 03:53 PM (is/Ek)

43 I hate babies because no woman would ever want me to father one with her.

Posted by: erg loughner at January 21, 2011 03:53 PM (rS9Mt)

44

I'm guessing that the lefties feminisities just wanted to have official back alley abortions.

"Oh that baby, the one with the scissor in it's head? No, that's not an abortion...oh, she came here to get an abortion? No she didn't, she accidentally gave birth! Then I was running with these scissors, you see, and unfortunately, I tripped and they ended up severing that baby's spinal cord...I'm sorry, i won't do it again."

Ace, the addition of race into all this is also disturbing...this shit doesn't happen, probably, in wealthy neighborhoods, white ones, but sure as shit happens in the black ones...you would think the lefties would be up in arms! But they aren't, and there are only a few reasons why...

Posted by: Rev Dr E Buzz at January 21, 2011 03:54 PM (tcSZb)

45 If abortion is so OK, then how come the leftists shut down the use of fetal pigs in high school biology?

And if abortion is OK for humans, how do they feel about abortions for, say, dogs?

The fact that the authorities looked away for so long proves the argument that Limbaugh has been making for years - the goal of the feminist movement is to ensure that the maximum number of abortions happen.

Posted by: brian at January 21, 2011 03:54 PM (y05cf)

46


Imagine the firestorm of trying to close a "reproductive choice clinic that primarily serves the poor and minority communities".


Imagine how hard it should be to create one.

Posted by: Margaret Sanger, Eugenics, Inc. at January 21, 2011 03:54 PM (UaxA0)

47 Last abortion thread was confusing redemption with repentance. Just sayin'

Posted by: dagny at January 21, 2011 03:54 PM (MYJl4)

48
speaking of jerk-offs...

here's eggmcmuffin

Posted by: Soothsayer Helper at January 21, 2011 03:55 PM (uFokq)

49 I read through that Gosnell grand jury report, and cried.

Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at January 21, 2011 03:55 PM (E75em)

50

Hmm, does this in any way tie in with ACORN and their teen prostitution rings?

Just askin'!

Posted by: Rev Dr E Buzz at January 21, 2011 03:55 PM (tcSZb)

51 This is Sarah Palin's fault. At least partially.

Oh, you think I'm kidding? I'm not.

Sarah Palin has a child with Downs Syndrome. She has spoken about her decision not to abort this child, and how she is happy to have Trig in her life. By making those statements and by raising a Downs baby, she has contributed to the message that it is possible to love and treasure Downs babies, and that raising a Downs baby presents challenges, but surmountable ones.

A woman pregnant with their own Downs baby and considering abortion who heard Palin might think that it is possible for her to raise her baby, just as Palin did. That woman might persist in that belief throughout her pregnancy. Rather than abortion the fetus in the fourth or fifth month when it would not be delivered before being killed, the woman might agonize over the decision for months. Eventually she might decide that an abortion was the best choice after all. But by that point, only a late-term abortion was possible. And these murders only occurred because Gosnell improperly performed late-term abortions. Had these fetuses been aborted sooner - had Sarah Palin not influenced these women to at least think hard about whether to have an abortion - no babies would have been murdered.

We don't know if any of the women who had their babies murdered by Gosnell ever heard Palin speak, or even knew that she had a baby with Downs. But Palin and all pro-lifers have contributed to a climate of disapproval of abortion that results in more late-term abortions.

Sarah Palin and all pro-lifers: you have blood on your hands.

Posted by: Masturbatin' Pete at January 21, 2011 03:56 PM (44WE/)

52
Health care specialist and saint, George Tiller, you mean.




Posted by: Soothsayer Helper at January 21, 2011 03:57 PM (uFokq)

53 And erg's got nuthin'

Posted by: toby928 at January 21, 2011 03:57 PM (S5YRY)

54 Ace:

I'm counting stories. Money is tight at the moment, but when its not - which better be soon - I'm going to pick some amount and hit the tip jar, then multiply by the number of posts on the topic.

Seriously. I'll pay you to keep hammering this.

You and the other bloggers might literally be saving lives.

Posted by: Professor Blather at January 21, 2011 03:57 PM (IwVPe)

55 Posted by: just another stupid knucklehead like you at January 21, 2011 03:53 PM (rS9Mt)

Did anyone actually understand that? Or did he just use a random word generator and keep hitting "next" until he got something that at least looked like paragraphs?

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at January 21, 2011 03:57 PM (8y9MW)

56 Silly, Ace. Just like some on left don't commit rape-rape, this wasn't abortion-abortion.

Posted by: Topsecretk9 at January 21, 2011 03:57 PM (8x3SC)

57 48
speaking of jerk-offs..

I think that was a spambot. It certainly didn't sound human.

Posted by: Y-not at January 21, 2011 03:58 PM (pW2o8)

58 OT - Hey Heather Radish are you still around? I watched The Girl With the Dragon Tattoo the other day and thought of your link about muslim assholes raping Swedish girls.
Have you seen it?

Posted by: Roadking at January 21, 2011 03:58 PM (DRXeq)

59
muffin is not even thinking of neat and obscure literary names, anymore


Posted by: Soothsayer Helper at January 21, 2011 03:58 PM (uFokq)

60
what a lazy troll



Posted by: Soothsayer Helper at January 21, 2011 03:58 PM (uFokq)

61 Masturbatin' Pete -you really should have tried to sell that piece to Andrew Sullivan or one of the NYT op-ed airheads for fifty cents a word before spilling your seed in an AoSHQ comment for free.

Posted by: JEM at January 21, 2011 03:59 PM (o+SC1)

62 Posted by: Masturbatin' Pete at January 21, 2011 03:56 PM

More masturbatin' and less sexifyin' would save lives.

Posted by: Y-not at January 21, 2011 03:59 PM (pW2o8)

63 Where are the usual suspects screaming about minorities being treated in this House of Abortion Horrors?

Jesse?
Al?
La Raza?

All I hear is the wind through the trees and the sound of the unborn weeping.

Posted by: mpfs at January 21, 2011 03:59 PM (iYbLN)

64 What the hell does this story have to do with the financial situation these women were in?

They want you to think the women paid large sums to Gosnell for illegal late-term abortions (instead of paying smaller sums to someone else for legal early abortions) because they were poor...and conclude that the government should pick up the tab for poor women's abortions.

(Don't ask why they don't start a "we'll pay for poor women's abortions" funds out of private donations instead of expecting taxpayers to fund them...they don't care about "women's health" enough to spend a dime of their own money.)

Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 21, 2011 03:59 PM (4ucxv)

65 Someone probably already asked this in a comment, but:
How many more of these places are there that operate like this?
How many doctors areperforming 3rd trimester abortions by delivering the children and then killing themevery day?
Anyone talked to Ridge about this story? Anyone?

Posted by: mikeyslaw at January 21, 2011 04:00 PM (QMGr1)

66 55
Posted by: just another stupid knucklehead like you at January 21, 2011 03:53 PM (rS9Mt)Did
anyone actually understand that? Or did he just use a random word
generator and keep hitting "next" until he got something that at least
looked like paragraphs?

Yeah, I know. I was looking for the links to Chinese knock-off crap in his post. Then I realized he was actually serious.

Posted by: Navin R Johnson at January 21, 2011 04:00 PM (HpT9p)

67 41
#21 24You
can fool a grand jury about this stuff, but you should not be able to
fool a medical board consisting entirely of doctors and other senior
health professionals whose State-sponsored job it is specifically to
find and remove physicians like this butcher from practice. I
actually know one of the State Board physicians in my State (SC) and
let me tell, if he even caught a whiff of a doctor doing something like
this he'd have the guys license to practice suspended instantly. But then again, there are currently ZERO legal abortion providers in my part of the State!
It depends on how well the state boards were doing their job.

From what people on other sites have said, Gosnell's license had actually been suspended in surrounding states such as New York and Delaware several times but never in Pennsylvania. I'm curious as to why that is.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 21, 2011 04:01 PM (w28+K)

68 There are only two reasons I can come up with for the libtards to be so in love with abortion.
1. Random and rampant promiscuity helps destroy the family and thus empowers the state.
2. Those engaging in random and rampant promiscuity prize it and thus the tool used to dispense with the effects becomes a method of control by the state, i.e. I'm a fiscal conservative but I really don't like the conservative abortion position because I like to fuck random people and don't want to worry about the consequences.
Otherwise it would be stupid for them to procure the deaths of the voter base.

Posted by: dagny at January 21, 2011 04:01 PM (MYJl4)

69 A shooting isn't a shooting, it's about right-wing rhetoric, but a story
about a gonzo abortion murderer aided and abetted by pro-abortion state
officials turns out to not be a story about either abortion or murder or
the high government officials the grand jury says aided and abetted the
crimes, but about... access to quality health care for the poor.

Welcome Ace, to the "Create Your Own Reality-Based Community"

Posted by: kbdabear at January 21, 2011 04:01 PM (vdfwz)

70 **Did anyone actually understand that? Or did he just use a random word generator and keep hitting "next" until he got something that at least looked like paragraphs?**

reminded me of the Mike Autotroll from way back when.

Posted by: joeindc44 at January 21, 2011 04:01 PM (QxSug)

71 muffin is not even thinking of neat and obscure literary names, anymore

I liked when he was Hegel, and then revealed that he didn't even know who Hegel was.

Posted by: toby928 at January 21, 2011 04:01 PM (S5YRY)

72 There are only two reasons I can come up with for the libtards to be so in love with abortion.
1. Random and rampant promiscuity helps destroy the family and thus empowers the state.
2. Those engaging in random and rampant promiscuity prize it and thus the tool used to dispense with the effects becomes a method of control by the state, i.e. I'm a fiscal conservative but I really don't like the conservative abortion position because I like to fuck random people and don't want to worry about the consequences.

Or
3. Because conservatives hate it so much.

Posted by: Ben at January 21, 2011 04:02 PM (wuv1c)

73 #34

They wouldn't have to close down anything.

This butcher was 67 years old.

The medical board takes him behind closed doors and tells him the following:

"We have reason to believe you've been conducting illegal abortions, falsifying records, and committing malpractice.

You've got a choice: You can voluntarily surrender your medical license right now and retire today. If you do that, we won't take further action against you.

If you don't want to do that, we're going to suspect your medical license effective immediately, notify your malpractice carrier, and call the DA's office to open criminal charges.

Your call, but you're not practicing medicine in PA again, ever. Feel free to try and fight this in court, if you like".


Guess what would have happened if the board had done that?

He'd have taken choice "A".


Posted by: looking closely at January 21, 2011 04:02 PM (PwGfd)

74 What, did I miss something? Is Tom Ridge running for President?

Posted by: Charles Darwin at January 21, 2011 04:03 PM (le5qc)

75 Where are the usual suspects screaming about minorities being treated in this House of Abortion Horrors?Killer was black. Doesn't play to narrative.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at January 21, 2011 04:03 PM (4ucxv)

76
I think e-muffin reads a lotta book-covers at Barnes Noble.


Posted by: Soothsayer Helper at January 21, 2011 04:03 PM (uFokq)

77 It's true that pregnant women will seek abortions whether they're legal or not. So what? In this case, the commonwealth looked the other way to allow illegal abortions to occur. This was done in plain sight without the state performing its law enforcement duties.

In this case, the abortions were neither safe, legal, or rare.

Posted by: joeindc44 at January 21, 2011 04:03 PM (QxSug)

78 Troll alert. Another stupid one at that.

Posted by: Soona at January 21, 2011 04:03 PM (Dm+vM)

79
Quick, name your top 5 films.

Posted by: Soothsayer Helper at January 21, 2011 04:03 PM (uFokq)

80
See?

You knuckleheads have no culture.

Posted by: Soothsayer Helper at January 21, 2011 04:04 PM (uFokq)

81 And I am sure that the chicks who came in for illegal, late term abortions were just credit hours away from their Harvard MBA's

Posted by: joeindc44 at January 21, 2011 04:04 PM (QxSug)

82 In this case, the abortions were neither safe, legal, or rare.

They were, however, lucrative. Big Abortion strikes again!

Posted by: toby928 at January 21, 2011 04:05 PM (S5YRY)

83 healthcare specialists like George Tiller
Now that is a reach...

Posted by: mpfs at January 21, 2011 04:05 PM (iYbLN)

84 To answer the question in the headline: I don't believe Mr. Gosnell was encouraged by anything other than his own personal greed and lack of ethics in pursuit of that greed. He's also charged, I believe, with illegal distribution of medication (or maybe that has not been addressed, or maybe it has been addressed in another suit against him -- it's mentioned in the grand jury). The man's motivations appear to be simply money.
However, I do believe that he was ALLOWED to continue with his illegal and unethical practices due to the personal ideologies (and corruption) of people within the departments charged with oversight of him. This is where it becomes "about abortion" and this is one of the more thorny issues in the case: that Gosnell clearly did illegal, unethical, and what many would call immoral things is moot. He did; there is no question as to that. That authorities turned a blind eye to this due to ideological rhetoric is, I think, at theheart of the matter. It's also something that by its nature will not be in the court case itself imho. It's more of a personal opinion.
What this will lead to is beyond my guess -- could lead to tighter restrictions and a rethinking of the pro life/pro choice debate (which would probably be a good thing), could lead to more of a push to repeal Roe v. Wade (I highly doubt that would be successful), could lead to absolutely nothing but Gosnell being sentenced (highly likely).
It will most definitely be used as political ammunition -- that I'm almost certain of...already is.

Posted by: unknown jane at January 21, 2011 04:06 PM (5/yRG)

85 yeah, looks like Mike ver. 2.5 auto-trollbot got updated to spew out paragraphs of random words.
http://minx.cc/?post=173953

Posted by: joeindc44 at January 21, 2011 04:06 PM (QxSug)

86 The lies, double standards, and hypocrisy of the left knows no bounds. I hate them for what they are, and what they would do to this country. The sorry bastards are a blight on free thinking, freedom loving individuals and therefore cannot coexist in the same society with same. They are the sworn enemy of personal freedom, and will have to be dealt with sooner or later if we intend to live free.

Posted by: maddogg at January 21, 2011 04:07 PM (OlN4e)

87 I am so glad conservative blogs are keeping this horrific story and document front and center...unlike today's New York Times, who are currently concerned about the "fauna" of Kenya being killed by climate change. Regarding the infanticide of innocent babies and severe injuries and death in Philadelphia? Nada (at least on the front page).
No matter how much the liberals and feminist hags want to spew it, there will be damage to their cause if this is reported in the MSM. The stock of their liberal bias is falling rapidly. The mainstream media want this to go away.

Posted by: ChristieBlinky at January 21, 2011 04:07 PM (zFyaZ)

88 Seems like if the media wants to talk about rhetorical incitements to murder, they have a pretty good reason to do so here.

It's the same reasoning that they use to justify killings by muzzie jihadists. The anointed elite in the MFM believe with all their black hearts that we rubes out there in Jesusland can't handle the truth.

Why, if they reported this story as is, all those right wing religious wackos would go right out and shoot abortion doctors and bomb abortion clinics

Posted by: kbdabear at January 21, 2011 04:07 PM (vdfwz)

89 What the hell does this story have to do with the financial situation these women were in?

I'm guessing that the explanation will be something like "these women had to wait until they had enough money scraped together to get these abortions. Had they been able to get a safe ten-week abortion like the rich blonde cheerleader at Moneybags Academy, none of this would have happened."

Posted by: Masturbatin' Pete at January 21, 2011 04:08 PM (44WE/)

90 That authorities turned a blind eye to this due to ideological rhetoric
is, I think, at theheart of the matter. It's also something that by
its nature will not be in the court case itself imho. It's more of a
personal opinion.

It's flatly stated in the grand jury report.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at January 21, 2011 04:08 PM (ZJ/un)

91 >> Here's a test: If you are unable to explain the facts and charges without mentioning the word "abortion," guess what, it's a story about abortion.
Sounds like a challenge.
>> A shooting isn't a shooting, it's about right-wing rhetoric, but a story about a gonzo abortion murderer aided and abetted by pro-abortion state officials turns out to not be a story about either abortion or murder or the high government officials the grand jury says aided and abetted the crimes, but about... access to quality health care for the poor.
"The history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggles."
Derangement is merely derangement; it isneither proletarian nor bourgeois. But the institutions which provide the means of production and distribution -- and vital functions such as health care -- for a society either do so for the benefit of the masses or do so at their expense.
(Seriously, Ace, aren't people are just taking sides along these lines?)

Posted by: FireHorse at January 21, 2011 04:08 PM (sWynj)

92
Are you shitting me?

For decades Left has been saying that fetus's in the womb were not human beings, not viable human life. The organism in the womb is worthless and nothing more than a pregnant woman's temporary appendage and sole property, they say.

Gosnell obviously took this literally.

Posted by: Soothsayer Helper at January 21, 2011 04:11 PM (uFokq)

93 By their own logic, if a girl is only penetrated with half a penis, its not actually rape.

If you only partially deliver the baby its not murder when the Dr sucks out the brains.

Right, liberals? Right?

Posted by: MJ at January 21, 2011 04:11 PM (BKOsZ)

94 #67

If this guys license were actually suspended in two adjacent states, but he was still allowed to have a medical license in PA, then there are only two possibilities:

a. The medical board of PA knew what this guy was up to, but deliberately decided to look the other way, or.

b. This guy both lied to the medical board of PA *AND* the board was so incompetent at what it is tasked to do, that it never did the appropriate background checks on his license and renewal applications.

And I don't believe b, for a second. Unlike 30 years ago, there are now central repositories of physician "bad" behavior, and its nearly impossible for physicians who have their licenses suspended or who are sued multiple times to hide that from credentialing agencies.

If the PA State medical board were really that bad, then PA would be a haven for every crackpot physician in the country.



Posted by: looking closely at January 21, 2011 04:11 PM (6Q9g2)

95 >>>He's also charged, I believe, with illegal distribution of medication (or maybe that has not been addressed, or maybe it has been addressed in another suit against him -- it's mentioned in the grand jury).

yes, he was prescribing controlled drugs to anyone; in fact, he wasn't even prescribing them. He left a pad of pre-signed scrip notes for his untrained day-labor staff to just fill in for whatever anyone wanted (oxycontin was a big one) so long as they could pay cash on the barrel.

It's only because the state was busting him on THAT racket that the abortion stuff was discovered by accident -- the raid was over the illegal prescription racket. The search warrant didn't specify abortion tools or bodies. They just discovered those because they were in plain sight, literally littered on teh floor.

Posted by: ace at January 21, 2011 04:12 PM (nj1bB)

96 Did IQ's just drop suddenly while I was away?

Posted by: Ellen Ripley at January 21, 2011 04:14 PM (b6qrg)

97 Goznell will be convicted. The state medical boards that were supposed to oversee his office will get reprimanded. The murdering hasn't stopped. I wonder how many late-term abortions or how many babies born alive have been killed just since Ace has posted this thread.

Posted by: Soona at January 21, 2011 04:14 PM (Dm+vM)

98 >>>Unfortunately, the specter of your manufactured contradiction is overshadowed by the murder of healthcare specialists like George Tiller by rightwing domestic terrorists.

erg, are you brain-damaged?

Is English not your first language, amigo?

You seem to be joining your hero Loughner in a jeremiad against clear writing and proper grammar.

Posted by: ace at January 21, 2011 04:15 PM (nj1bB)

99 Oh yes, this is about abortion. It is front and center to this story and there's no way around it. The poverty meme is horseshit. I've read nearly half of the Grand Jury report. These 2nd 3rd tri abortions cost in the neighborhood of $2000-$3000. Hardly a sum those in poverty could produce. This sick, depraved doctor transacted everything in cash. He was in the baby killing business for cash. As his reputation got around, and less patients in 1st trimester seeking abortions sought his practice, he began tapping into the real money. That which came from late term pregnancies. Many, many complaints were registered and the Penn Dept of Health looked the other way. That speaks volumes to the very nature of this industry. The care and well being for the women at his clinic were clearly not a priority from those agencies who are in place to protect from just such a shop of horrors.

In the Grand Jury statement, an employee remarked that during one very large baby delivery, Gosnell jammed scissors into its neck, as the baby was clearly alive and stated, "like a chicken with its head cut off." This was a sick, sick man.

Posted by: Lady in Black at January 21, 2011 04:16 PM (x9xik)

100 Remember the "Mary Jo Kopechne might have thought it was worth it?" meme when Teddy finally dry-humped off his mortal coil?

Same situation here. As far as the left is concerned, defending the principle of abortion on demand is far more important than the lives of a few...uh...what's that n-word?

"Forget it, Jake. It's Chinatown."


Posted by: JEM at January 21, 2011 04:16 PM (o+SC1)

101 Hey, what erg says is perfectly sensible, if you're a progressive.

Here's the simple refinement of his argument:

A right-wing whacko killed an abortion doctor, so shut up.

Projection, followed by the demand to simply cease arguing. That's all "erg" has to offer. Because he's a progressive, and therefore brain-damaged.

Posted by: brian at January 21, 2011 04:17 PM (y05cf)

102 94
#67If
this guys license were actually suspended in two adjacent states, but
he was still allowed to have a medical license in PA, then there are
only two possibilities:
The articles I'm finding from before this week are sketchy on a lot of this.

At least one of the Delaware articles from March 2010 says that his Delaware license was in part due to a raid on his office over pain scripts that turned up things such as his fetus collection but ALSO in part due to Pennsylvania suspending his license.

I'm unaware of any other article saying his Pennsylvania license had been suspended.

According to an Operation Rescue article dated 2010, he was censured, reprimanded, and fined in 1996 for having unlicensed workers treating patients. There may not have been an *official* suspension, but his NY state license status is "not registered".


There had clearly been problems with this guy going back a minimum of 15 years bad enough for him to have lost his license in a neighboring state, but nothing was being done about it in Pennsylvania as far as I can tell.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 21, 2011 04:20 PM (w28+K)

103 I don't believe Mr. Gosnell was encouraged by anything other than his
own personal greed and lack of ethics in pursuit of that greed.

I disagree. If you argue that someone or something is less than human - which is what the pro-abortion crowd does, you provide encouragement for anyone who treats that person or thing as less than human.

No amount of "overheated rhetoric" or "vitriolic discourse" in modern American politics ever even suggested that members of Congress were less than human, or could be killed. But that's exactly what pro-abortion rhetoric does.

Posted by: Masturbatin' Pete at January 21, 2011 04:21 PM (44WE/)

104 Brian, I'm not sweating the idea he's trying to express (which I expect to be typically stupid and unoriginal), I am calling attention to the fact that he is apparently not capable of even expressing it.

What he wrote was Loughnerian. It's not exactly gibberish, as you can sort of see what topics he is attempting (and failing) to implicate; but it's just really piss-poor writing, broadcasting in the "Illiterate" band or close to it.

Posted by: ace at January 21, 2011 04:21 PM (nj1bB)

105 #65: How many more of these places are there that operate like this? How many doctors areperforming 3rd trimester abortions by delivering
the children and then killing themevery day?
I doubt there are many others if even ANY others.

While I'd be surprised if there were NOT a few clinics doing illegal late-term abortions on a regular or infrequent basis, this guy was just WAY over the top in terms of criminally sloppy medical procedure, risk to patients, and damning personal professional history.
This kind of thing can't go on in a vaccum.

Based on what I can see, basically the only way this could have happened was that those in charge of oversight deliberately looked the other way to let it go on. That has to include the State Board of Medicine, as well as probably multiple other State agencies.

Posted by: looking closely at January 21, 2011 04:22 PM (PwGfd)

106 What the hell does this story have to do with the financial situation these women were in?That's the part of this that conservatives had better watch out for. In part, because it is very true: women with good health insurance and/or monetary means will go to a specialist or be referred to one; women who do not have either will go to the local health clinic...and are much more likely to be referred to somebody like Mr. Gosnell.
So, what do you think the arguement will be?
And this is a very clever trap, because it can also entangle the pro-life arguement..."just look, see, that's how bad it would be for everyone if R v. W is overturned; more people will be forced to endure such horrors". And of course the race card will get played as well.
I would almost bet that those will be the next lines of arguement in this. Always watch your flanks folks
(and I really wish the script would more easily go back to normal on this site -- the toolbar here is very naughty and misbehaving)

Posted by: unknown jane at January 21, 2011 04:23 PM (5/yRG)

107 Okay, this one's better: "Efficient As Hell"

Posted by: Safe, Legal, and Rare at January 21, 2011 04:24 PM (FcR7P)

108 My sister likes to contend that abortion is good because the mothers that would kill a baby would be a bad mother; the child would suffer horribly as the child of that mother. My answer to that is then when child protective services has to come in why not just kill the kid instead of fostering it? If a kid has a bad mother and gets sick, why not just kill it? If the mother can't afford lunch, why provide it, just kill the kid? It makes no sense that death is a better alternative than something less than an ideal life.

Posted by: dagny at January 21, 2011 04:24 PM (MYJl4)

109 @104 - Ah. I figured that it was just a poorly-educated progg trying to spew the default talking points.

I know he's a troll, but sometimes trolls at least attempt to be topical and coherent. Doesn't seem to be a major point for erg.

Posted by: brian at January 21, 2011 04:24 PM (y05cf)

110 I am calling attention to the fact that he is apparently not capable of even expressing it. Hey, I used"specter." I'm not exactly sure what it means, but it's like poetic, man.

Posted by: A Stupid Knucklehead Even Stupider Than The Average Knucklehead at January 21, 2011 04:25 PM (QKKT0)

111 Come on, Time.

Come on, Mother Jones.

DKos, anyone gonna bite?

We're waiting for this piece.

'Those little black babies, born with no future, probably destined to end up in jail or selling their bodies for crack. Maybe if they'd grown to adulthood and been confronted with an unwanted pregnancy, they might believe their own fate between the blades of Dr Gosnell's shears had been worth it to defend the principle of unregulated abortion upon demand."


Posted by: JEM at January 21, 2011 04:26 PM (o+SC1)

112 Jane, click on <> on the toolbar and you can get rid of the italics that won't die.

Posted by: dagny at January 21, 2011 04:26 PM (MYJl4)

113 Sorry to go, breakfast is trying to come back up again.
This case is a sad reminder of just how far we've fallen as a nation, that we would allow, much lesseven legallycondone, the deaths of the most innocent and helpless.
If we had any brains, we'd outlaw this barbaric practice and return to sanity, holding all life as precious and protected.
What the fuck is wrong with us? And by us, I mean the killers who insist on couching their murderous argument in the seemingly innocuous term "choice." Who in their right mind would want to kill their own child?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at January 21, 2011 04:26 PM (b6qrg)

114 92 But that would be a public opinion court decision -- there is no way that a court can rule on whether or not Gosnell was acting on that. Unless you can prove he was brainwashed or hypnotized or something -- which is implausible and quite honestly would give him an out: he isn't "personally" responsible because society "made" him do this.
That's probably not an area people want to go -- that's a trap too.
(ah, thank goodness the script is back to normal!)

Posted by: unknown jane at January 21, 2011 04:28 PM (5/yRG)

115 Okay, if it's near the womb, it's not a life. Happy?

Posted by: The Ever-Inventive Left at January 21, 2011 04:28 PM (FcR7P)

116 So, what do you think the arguement will be?
And this is a very clever trap, because it can also entangle the pro-life arguement..."just look, see, that's how bad it would be for everyone if R v. W is overturned; more people will be forced to endure such horrors". And of course the race card will get played as well.
More likely that that's how it will be if healthcare stays in every medical situation. The govt didn't regulate when it was their responsibility to and they were told.

Posted by: dagny at January 21, 2011 04:29 PM (MYJl4)

117 Government healthcare is going to be awesome.

Posted by: The Pennsylvania State Board of Medicine at January 21, 2011 04:31 PM (FcR7P)

118 We aren't slouching towards Gomorrah we are running at full speed.

Posted by: mpfs at January 21, 2011 04:32 PM (iYbLN)

119 Umm, can we tax everyone who gets an abortion at a higher rate? They are literally killing our revenue stream.

Posted by: An IRS Agent at January 21, 2011 04:33 PM (spdso)

120 116 Ah, ah, I said "what the argument will be" not the reality of the thing. Those are sometimes very different critters altogether.

Posted by: unknown jane at January 21, 2011 04:34 PM (5/yRG)

121 102

So lots of physicians hold multiple state licenses concurrently. That's not atypical, particularly if they operate near state borders and may be on staff at hospitals or clinics in adjacent states.

If this guy had license from state "A" revoked, states B, etc, might not learn about it for up to two years until he applies for renewal.

As I alluded to above, taking away someone's medical license is not a trivial thing. You're basically permanently taking away their livelihood (Earned after 7+ years of medical school and postgraduate medical education), and this is potentially problematic for a number of reasons. It could cause a major legal fight, a scandal, etc.

So in practice, what sometimes happens is that instead of outright suspending someone's license, the board will let them voluntarily relinquish it, or not renew it. Its basically a face-saving gesture and it still gets the physician out of practice (at least out of legal practice).

Even so, physican medial boards not being total idiots, renewal applications explicitly require physicians to list other state licenses EVER held, and detail when and why they are no longer being held. So a physician *should* not skate by getting a license in State B if they've lost their license in State A for whatever reason.

If this guy had really lost his license in NY he shouldn't have been able to skate by getting one in PA.

Again, the most likely explanation for this happening in this case is if the State Medical board in PA were deliberately looking the other way here.




Posted by: looking closely at January 21, 2011 04:35 PM (PwGfd)

122 How long before one of the networks makes a horror movie about Dr. Kermitt Gosnell? Answer: Never, because abortion on demand is a leftard sacred cow.

Posted by: maddogg at January 21, 2011 04:38 PM (OlN4e)

123 Again, the most likely explanation for this happening in this case
is if the State Medical board in PA were deliberately looking the other
way here.

If true, the victims of any malpractice by this guy, or their families in the case of the deceased, will be getting a jackpot verdict at the expense of the PA State Medical Board.

Probably the PA Department of Health, too, if that callous bitch's statements from the Grand Jury report are any indication.

Posted by: Brandon In Baton Rouge at January 21, 2011 04:43 PM (w28+K)

124 Unknown Jane, they can't really argue the race card, or even the insurance card....the report states that Dr. Gosnell had separate, cleaner room for "white women from the suburbs, who he thought were more likely to report a problem". The point is, even the so-called wealthy suburban white women had to go to this guy, no normal doctor or hospital would do it for her no matter what her class.

Posted by: Luca Brasi at January 21, 2011 04:44 PM (YmPwQ)

125 NEW RULE

Anyone wishing to brand the writers and readers here "knuckleheads" must do so in intelligible English demonstrating at least a ninth grade education.

Posted by: ace at January 21, 2011 04:45 PM (nj1bB)

126 I want all the pro-choice fucks to look at those late term abortion pictures and tell me that's not a baby.
But they don't even have the courage to face the reality of what these abortions are.
Flag covered coffins of dead soldiers? Hell yes. We gotta see the cost of war!!! Pics of aborted babies? Why the very suggestionis barbaricand unneccesarily gruesome. Oh, and by the way it's just a clump of cells anyway.
Fucking cowards.
Murderous sicko cowards.

Posted by: Warden at January 21, 2011 04:45 PM (HzhBE)

127 124 Wanna bet they won't try? Arguments don't have to be good or logical, or even be founded on facts -- that should be readily apparent by now.

Posted by: unknown jane at January 21, 2011 04:51 PM (5/yRG)

128 Maybe they don't want to have it compared to genocide?

Think about it... Philly, low income ... 2 + 2 does still = 4 no?
Tell me that better than 95% of his clients weren't of a certain skin tone. Maybe, just maybe, there's an elephant in the room no one wants to see?

Nahhhh, no one would make that connection would they?

Posted by: Gmac at January 21, 2011 04:53 PM (k2Fyd)

129 Masturbatin' Pete -you really should have tried to sell that piece to
Andrew Sullivan or one of the NYT op-ed airheads for fifty cents a word
before spilling your seed in an AoSHQ comment for free.Posted by: JEM at January 21, 2011 03:59 PM (o+SC1)


You know what's scary? I wrote it as satire, but I can't dismiss the possibility that Sullivan pals would agree.

You're definitely going to hear the argument that with single-payer health care, these murders would have been safely performed abortions back in the second month of pregnancy. You'll hear an argument by a soi disant "pro-choice moderate" that if pro-lifers weren't so absolutist on the issue and worked towards making abortion "safe, legal, and rare," this wouldn't have happened. You'll hear that Republican economics created the poverty that pushed these women to seek abortions.

Combine these arguments with a pathological, uncontrollable hatred of Sarah Palin and prepare to hear her get blamed.

Posted by: Masturbatin' Pete at January 21, 2011 04:55 PM (44WE/)

130 This whole thing stinks to high heaven - you have PA state regulators, reputable medical facilities like Children's Hospital referring people to this butcher (conveniently, the CHOP doctor went on to become head of the health department), and University of Pennsylvania emergency room doctors failing to report the botched abortions that were presented to them originating from Gosnell's abbatoir. This guy didn't act alone: he did the butchery, but there were referring doctors, negligent regulators and medical professionals willing to look the other way.

I did a write-up about the Grand Jury report here: http://tinyurl.com/4n8kw6j

I glanced at the photos and description of the raid, and wanted to throw up.

Posted by: Fallen Sparrow at January 21, 2011 05:02 PM (l48cv)

131 How long before one of the networks makes a horror movie about Dr.
Kermitt Gosnell? Answer: Never, because abortion on demand is a leftard
sacred cow.

You're also never going to see a ripped-from-the-headlines Law Order episode on this. But as Kathy Shaidle has noted, more abortionists have been murdered on Law Order than in all of American history.

Posted by: Masturbatin' Pete at January 21, 2011 05:03 PM (44WE/)

132 Some pro-life group needs to buy up this building now for a memorial, before NARAL gets their hands on it and tears it down in the middle of the night.

And every woman ever injured by this quack needs to get their lawsuits filed. Not just against Gosnell, but against the enablers in emergency rooms, the city and state government. Normally, I hate these "get paid" ambulance chasing TV lawyers, but here's a case where the suits will be against truly guilty and evil human beings.


Posted by: Little Miss Spellcheck at January 21, 2011 05:04 PM (a5ljo)

133 One very liberal woman told me many, manyyears ago that minority and poor women would not use other birth control measures intelligently. So if abortions on demand were not available, there would be all these babies in horrible living situations which would ultimately increase welfare payments and raise taxes. She could not understand why I, as a conservative, did not find this a compelling argument.

Posted by: RM at January 21, 2011 05:08 PM (GkYyh)

134 As horrific as this is, and as horrific as the defense of the practice in general is, I don't think the latter caused the former.

I don't think an otherwise decent, normal person gets turned into a person that stabs babies in the back of the neck as a routine because of rhetoric. I know about the Stanford Prison experiments and that's a topic for another day (I call bullshit), and I know the next example brought up is Nazis but even most of the devoted Nazis weren't personally involved in brutality... that was a combination of an authoritarian society and self-selecting for willingness to engage in personal violence against the defenseless.

I'm disgusted by the attitude toward human life displayed by many on the left, but I'm not prepared to say it's causative. Contributive, sure, but not causative.

The other difference here is that in the Loughner case the "up front" assertion was that the problem was violent/angry discussion in general (the implication being that it's the right's fault) was to blame. (Yes, the fringy but large far left outright said that.)

In this case you can't really lay that assertion anywhere but at the feet of the left, which is of course why the MFM is avoiding it like the plague, because it's THEIR feet at risk now.

Because liberals lie about everything.

Posted by: Merovign, Bond Villain at January 21, 2011 05:10 PM (bxiXv)

135
Someone probably already asked this in a comment, but:

How many more of these places are there that operate like this?

How many doctors areperforming 3rd trimester abortions by delivering the children and then killing themevery day?

Anyone talked to Ridge about this story? Anyone?

Posted by: mikeyslaw at January 21, 2011 04:00 PM (QMGr1)
Probably about two in every city large enough to be run entirely by Democrats for the last 10 years or so.

Posted by: Oldcat at January 21, 2011 05:10 PM (z1N6a)

136 It seems like a good way to combat the pro-choice absolutionists is to agree with them:
1. It is absolutely the pregnant woman's right to chose if and when to abort. No one else has any say whatsoever.
2. Given that it is the pregnant woman's absolute right to chose and that no one else has any say: As the benefit is solely hers, so are the burdens. Whether she choses to abort or deliver, she is 100% responsible forall costs associated with her decision.Since the father has no say in the abort/deliver decision, he has no burden, i.e., noobligation topay child supportor for the abortion, or any share of either.
Force them to fight for the dollars. As no advocacy group will ever agree that the fathers should not be forced to pay child support, it puts them in a bad position to try tosquare anabsolutely independent right with an absolutely dependent one. It also sets up a nice 14th Amendment challenge. I have seen variations on the theme attempted before, but they were always couched in pretty squishy language.

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at January 21, 2011 05:13 PM (xy9wk)

137 126 Define "pro choice fucks".
I'm pro choice, simply from the standpoint that abortion is not high on my list of "things that need to be addressed by the state", and I'm not willing to go splitting the inevitable hairs over the topic outside of my own immediate family. I am very aware of the realities of abortion. However, for me at least it becomes a case of "no" to federal or state funding for the things, but "do what thou will; you have to live with your choice" at the personal level.
I believe that makes me pro choice under thestandard definition...doesn't make me all happy as shit to see them happening though.

Posted by: unknown jane at January 21, 2011 05:14 PM (5/yRG)

138 I am so glad conservative blogs are keeping this horrific story and document front and center...unlike today's New York Times, who are currently concerned about the "fauna" of Kenya being killed by climate change. Regarding the infanticide of innocent babies and severe injuries and death in Philadelphia? Nada (at least on the front page).
The NYT did how many stories on Abu Ghraib?

Posted by: Cheri at January 21, 2011 05:18 PM (oiNtH)

139 I was thinking of this on the way to work this morning. Ingraham was talking about it. I just can't get it out of my head, the brutality. I just hope that every one involved and I mean EVERYONE pays for what they have done. It won't bring back the lives of those sweet innocent babies but goddamnit this has to stop.
This just makes me sick in my soul.

Posted by: Bosk at January 21, 2011 05:19 PM (pUO5u)

140
In the words of the late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan (D-NY):

"Our second, or opportunistic mode of redefinition, reveals at most a nominal intent to do good. The true object is to do well, a long-established motivation among mortals. In this pattern, a growth in deviancy makes possible a transfer of resources, including prestige, to those who control the deviant population. This control would be jeopardized if any serious effort were made to reduce the deviancy in question. This leads to assorted strategies for redefining the behavior in question as not all that deviant, really."

The leftist will to power neatly explains why Loughner was free to fuck up other people's lives instead of warehoused in a happy factory where he belongs.

The leftist will to power neatly explains why a sizable chunk of the hominids that occupy this country and cast votes that shape public policy will fight tooth-and-nail for their depraved "right" to vacuum the brains from the skulls of babies.

Why did State Senator Obama vote against BAIPA twice and move to have it killed in committee? Why were nearly 70 million hominids comfortable enough about this to propel this monster to the head of the executive branch?

Senator Moynihan titled his piece, "Defining Deviancy Down." In spite of all the mush-headed typical liberal bullshit scattered throughout the article, that one paragraph is a brilliantly lucid standout.

Nearly twenty more years of defining deviancy down was all it took to split the human race. Leftists are not the same fucking species.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at January 21, 2011 05:21 PM (xJVlJ)

141 @140 the question is: who are the Morlocks and who are the Eloi?

Posted by: brian at January 21, 2011 05:25 PM (y05cf)

142 So if abortions on demand were not available,
there would be all these babies in horrible living situations which
would ultimately increase welfare payments and raise taxes. She could
not understand why I, as a conservative, did not find this a compelling
argument.

Posted by: RM at January 21, 2011 05:08 PM (GkYyh)
Liberals are also against cross racial adoptions, which would result in babies in these situations escaping the bad situation with their life.

Posted by: Oldcat at January 21, 2011 05:26 PM (z1N6a)

143 126 Define "pro choice fucks".
Careless language on my part. Let me define them as the absolutists. The ones who support 3rd trimester abortions. The abortion fetishists.
As far as early abortions, I'm a bit squishy myself. Not for me personally--my wife and I would not abort a mentally retarded or otherwise "defective" baby--but politically, yes. I'm squishy.
But the late term stuff, I undeniably consider infanticide.

Posted by: Warden at January 21, 2011 05:27 PM (HzhBE)

144 And every woman ever injured by this quack needs to get their lawsuits filed.

...no.

Not a cent.

Unless you can prove they did not know what procedure was to be performed, not one red cent. And I consider that vanishingly unlikely.

If none had gone, none of those horrors would have taken place. May they all rot alongside the bad Doctor.

Posted by: AoSHQ's DarkLord at January 21, 2011 05:29 PM (GBXon)

145 @141

"the question is: who are the Morlocks and who are the Eloi?"

The Morlocks are the leftist overlords. The Eloi are the dependent underclass that the leftist overlords cultivate for their votes. Hell, they may as well be eating them.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at January 21, 2011 05:29 PM (xJVlJ)

146
I was thinking of this on the way to work this
morning. Ingraham was talking about it. I just can't get it out of my
head, the brutality. I just hope that every one involved and I mean
EVERYONE pays for what they have done. It won't bring back the lives of
those sweet innocent babies but goddamnit this has to stop.

This just makes me sick in my soul.

Posted by: Bosk at January 21, 2011 05:19 PM (pUO5u)
"The Sleep of Reason brings forth monsters" - Goya.We have spent a generation and a half pretending that infanticide has no moral import, despite reason and the calls of biology. Its not a shock that someone who accepts that should act on that assumption.

Posted by: Oldcat at January 21, 2011 05:30 PM (z1N6a)

147 However, for me at least it becomes a case of "no" to federal or state funding for the things, but "do what thou will; you have to live with your choice" at the personal level.
Posted by: unknown jane at January 21, 2011 05:14 PM (5/yRG)
Abortion is the killing of a baby - even doctorsadmit that. Our founding documents recognize the right to life - which other rights found therewould you rather not fight for?

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at January 21, 2011 05:34 PM (0Jb7F)

148 Sad thing is that if you show a leftist that picture of the refidgerator with the red plastic bags and tell them is is Sarah Palin's meat locker, they will get pissed off and indignant. Tell them its full of murdered baby parts and they would get pissed off the doctor did not use paper instead of plastic.

Posted by: KLH at January 21, 2011 05:36 PM (4+tm0)

149 Posted by: KLH
That's so true it's actually sickening to consider.
Remember all the outrage about her clubbing a salmon on the head? Yeah.

Posted by: Warden at January 21, 2011 05:38 PM (HzhBE)

150 140 That's if you believe in the inherent moral tendency to do good among people... I'm not so much a believer in that. At best people come into this world morally neutral (at best).
Also, the growth in deviancy is an endgame: sure, at the beginning there is transfer of resources, but eventually that animal turns around and bites its master. It's why socialism has never worked and never will; that's why complete laissez faire capitalism doesn't really work that well either -- because people cannot be counted upon to do the morally good thing. That's why the Founders set up the government they did and gave us the warnings they did as well. But these are things that at some level the individual has to be responsible for...not the state.

Posted by: unknown jane at January 21, 2011 05:38 PM (5/yRG)

151 @150

I'm not sure, but I think you may have misread what Moynihan wrote--he was making a distinction between "doing good" and "doing well."

As for the part about how we arrive in this world, that is not my point. Even if we all arrive here inherently evil, our social mores contribute to who we become when we reach the stages in life when we achieve the wherewithal to make an impact on others. Tampering with those mores by taking a crowbar to the culture is dangerous business.

Posted by: FRONT TOWARD LEFT at January 21, 2011 05:50 PM (xJVlJ)

152 147 I would rather fight for the right to freedom of speech and assembly, the right to bear arms, the right to own property, with a side order of the right to habeas corpus, right to freedom of religion. All of them under attack and the last two particularly dicey subjects considering the events of the last 10 years.
Perhaps this is selfish, as these more directly effect me -- but there you have it. If some woman decides to have an abortion, as long as they are not funded by my tax dollars, then I could care less...her choice, not mine. She certainly isn't asking for my opinion, and I would not ask for hers. If it is someone in my family, then maybe she would ask for my opinion and I'd give it.
Perhaps that's cold hearted, but I'll be the first to tell you I'm pretty cold hearted -- the world's a nasty, blood soaked place...always has been, always will be. You have to pick and choose where you're willing to expend your soul -- abortion isn't mine; you're free to do so though. I'm not arguing against that -- go for it.

Posted by: unknown jane at January 21, 2011 05:50 PM (5/yRG)

153 151 Who allows that crowbar to be taken to the culture? I say it's the individual -- the state is just the by-product. Again though, that's my personal opinion, and we all know what opinions are like.

Posted by: unknown jane at January 21, 2011 06:07 PM (5/yRG)

154 unknown jane - I agree, to a point. People will do the morally correct thing when it's the easy thing to do. Not necessarily when it's harder. Some will, some will not. Some, having taken the easy road, will acknowledge their weakness, and some will temporize. And in some areas you won't necessarily have agreement as what is morally correct.


Posted by: JEM at January 21, 2011 06:23 PM (o+SC1)

155 143 Ah, ok. Then we probably are very close to being of the same opinion on this other than it might be higher up on your list of things to address than it is on mine.

Posted by: unknown jane at January 21, 2011 06:24 PM (5/yRG)

156 YEAH! It's about the poor sniper that shot that doctor thru the window while the doctor was in his living room. The poor sniper was driven insane by the "small government" BIG GOVERNMENT anti-abortionists that want government OUT OF OUR LIVES except they want government to monitor the pregnancy status of every female to make sure no harm comes to a fetus. That would drive every normal person out of their mind and only bible thumping religionists can twist themselves into a small enough pretzel to explain the dichomtimy without appearing to be total fools. Of course to non-bible thumping religionists they ARE FOOLS!

As to religion and abortion, 1) it's none of your business and 2) we can't AFFORD IT! If you don't want an abortion, then don't have one. What someone else does with their life, even if you disapprove, is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!

Posted by: Fiftycal at January 21, 2011 06:32 PM (Deems)

157 What someone else does with their life, even if you disapprove, is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!
Posted by: Fiftycal at January 21, 2011 06:32 PM (Deems)
What someone does with their life is indeed their business; when they decide to take another's life itis everyone's business. Maybe i'm old fashioned, but basic human rights are pretty high on my scale of important ideals.

Posted by: Vashta.Nerada at January 21, 2011 06:43 PM (9Uxl0)

158 At the risk of sounding judgmental (and I would never ever want to be seen as being THAT), it occurs to me that the people making excuses for this are psychotic and soulless arch-fiends, capable of accepting nearly any amount of murder and violence in support of their sick, twisted, vomit-inducing ideology and their cult religion of death. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Posted by: Bitsko at January 21, 2011 06:45 PM (8/KZN)

159 You have to pick and choose where you're willing to expend your soul -- abortion isn't mine; you're free to do so though.

If some woman decides to have an abortion, as long as they are not
funded by my tax dollars, then I could care less...her choice, not mine.

(I quoted you a little out of order here because I think it makes the most sense this way. If you think it misrepresents your position, please tell me)

If someone asked me if I cared about starvation in Africa, I would say yes, but the truth is that I really don't care that much. That's the honest truth. Whether people who I'll never know and who live thousands of miles away starve to death is a low priority for me. If I really did care, I'd be doing a hell of a lot more than I'm doing, which is basically nothing. I'm sure some of my charity dollars find their way to Africa, but that hardly amounts to anything. The same thing goes for any number of other evils in the world: sexual slavery, animal cruelty, child abuse, HIV/AIDS. None of these are things that keep me up at night.

But although I don't do much of anything to help, I also don't want Africans to starve, animals to be mistreated, children to be abused, or anyone to get AIDS. The world is a sadder, unjust place for having these things in it. And if I could snap my fingers and get it to stop, or cast a vote and get it to stop, or write a check for $1,000 and get it to stop, I'd do it, but I can't. I don't have the skills or the resources.

So I get it: you don't care very much about people you don't know having abortions. I understand that, but I think you're taking it a step too far. I get the impression - correct me if I'm wrong - that if you had the ability to snap your fingers and outlaw abortion, you wouldn't. And that's where you and I differ, I think: I'd stop starvation in Africa if I could. You wouldn't stop abortion if you could.

Posted by: Masturbatin' Pete at January 21, 2011 07:43 PM (jmJF+)

160 Has this story (with pictures) changed anyone's pro-abortion stance?

Posted by: madamex at January 21, 2011 07:45 PM (eKfWX)

161 As to religion and abortion, 1) it's none of your business and 2) we
can't AFFORD IT! If you don't want an abortion, then don't have one.
What someone else does with their life, even if you disapprove, is NONE
OF YOUR BUSINESS!
Lesson 1: Keep your child beating behind closed doors.

Posted by: toby928 at January 21, 2011 08:42 PM (S5YRY)

162 As to religion and abortion, 1) it's none of your business and 2) we
can't AFFORD IT! If you don't want an abortion, then don't have one.
What someone else does with their life, even if you disapprove, is NONE
OF YOUR BUSINESS

Wrong, Cocksucker, because there is another life involved!

Posted by: kidney at January 21, 2011 08:48 PM (ENRGu)

163 For some reason I can't post links here. Google Obama, Saddleback, BAIPA.
He is being interviewed on CNN and calls pro-lifers "liars." The next day, his campaign came out with a quiet retraction after NRLC dug up transcripts proving that Obama lied.

Posted by: lauren at January 21, 2011 09:29 PM (KNAZ+)

164 "
As far as early abortions, I'm a bit squishy myself. Not for me personally--my wife and I would not abort a mentally retarded or otherwise "defective" baby--but politically, yes. I'm squishy."

Well then you're a pro-choice fuck too. Abortion is wrong. Period. If you support it at all, you support this shit too. It doesn't make things better if you kill someone earlier in their development. The kid's just as dead.

Posted by: lauren at January 21, 2011 09:31 PM (KNAZ+)

165 Well all you bible thumping jesus nuts need to quit calling yourselves "small government" types. You just want to enforce your religious superstitions on everyone else. Fuck off. it's not any of your fucking business.

Posted by: Fiftycal at January 21, 2011 11:17 PM (Deems)

166 All this talk about being squeamish about early abortions or thinking freedom of speech is a bigger issue than abortion is weak bullshit.

If it's wrong to kill a baby out of the womb, it's wrong to kill it in the womb. If it's wrong in the 4th trimester (i.e. born), then the 3rd, 2nd, and 1st are also wrong too. Get educated on the development of a baby. There is no magic time when a major transformation occurs, where you could say "Ahh, now this is a baby. Yesterday it was merely a clump of cells." No, it is rather a continuous process of growth and development. With a beating heart as early as 2 weeks after conception.

And you're right, it is selfish bullshit to be more concerned about you right to arms or press than the life of a baby. How about I just go about murdering people. You wouldn't mind -- I'll do it in my house so it won't bother you. Tell me what is the difference? There is none.

Babies in the womb are the most defenseless humans on the planet. You can obtain a gun if they get outlawed. If your right to speach gets taken away, well you can risk the consequences and speak out anyway.

But who will defend a helpless child? What kind of weak society are we that we will not stand up and defend our most defenseless members?

Posted by: wheresmypudding at January 22, 2011 12:32 AM (Nh4c7)

167 I'm pulling together <a href="http://kermitgosnellcrimes.wikispaces.com/">a wiki of the entire Grand Jury Report</a> -- breaking it down into sections, cross-linking, and providing supplemental materials. I highly recommend bookmarking it so that you have a great reference source when you're discussing this case.

Gosnell stands out from his fellow abortionists in that he elevated and refined all manner of ghoulish disregard for human life, but he was hardly a pioneer in any of them. Allowing untrained staff to administer general anesthesia? Untrained staff caring for women in his absence? Stockpiling fetuses? Filthy facility? Killing live-born babies? Regulators and prochoice activists looking the other way? None of this is new, and I'm gathering evidence that this is not an isolated problem. Check the wiki out, and keep coming back.

Posted by: Christina at January 22, 2011 09:10 AM (FX6zo)

168 it's not any of your fucking business.

Of course it is, dickweed.

Posted by: toby928 at January 22, 2011 10:07 AM (S5YRY)

169 منتدى الترحيب والإستقبالمنتدى المناسبات والتهاني



منتدى الحوار العاممنتدى المواضيع الإسلاميةمنتدى الطب والصحةمنتدى الخواطر والنثرمنتدى القصص والرواياتمنتدى المطبخ والمأكولات



منتدى الأخبار الساخنةمنتدى عالم الرياضة



منتدى الألعاب والتساليمنتدى الضحك والوناسة



منتدى البرامج العاممنتدى برامج الجوال وملحقاتةمنتدى الألعاب الإلكترونيةمنتدى البرامج العام
حسابات مواقع الرفع | premium accountمنتدى طلبات البرامج والكراكات
منتدى البرامج العربية
منتدى دروس التعريب والتشفيرمنتدى الطلبات والمساعدة
منتدى برامج الحماية
منتدى إختبارات و نقاشات برامج الحماية
منتدى البرامج المحمولةمنتدى أنظمة التشغيلمنتدى برامج الجوال وملحقاتةمنتدى الألعاب الإلكترونية



منتدى معرض الإبداعات
منتدى طلبات التصميم
منتدى دروس برامج التصميممنتدى ملحقات المصمم



منتدى الحلول الشائعة للحاسب الآليمنتدى عيادة جهازك
الطلبات المنتهية




منتدى تطوير المنتدياتمنتدى أرشفة المنتدياتمنتدى الحماية وثغرات المنتدياتركن الطلبات والمشاكل



فريق الكتب الإلكترونيةإنتاجات فريق الكتب الإلكترونية



منتدى الترحيب والتهانيمنتدى المواضيع العامةمنتدى المواضيع الإسلاميةهمس القصيد لمتذوقي الشعر والخواطرمنتدى القصص والرواياتمنتدى عالم المرأهمنتدى عالم الرجل



منتدى الألعاب والتساليمنتدى الضحك والوناسة



شرح خصائص المنتدىمنتدى تنسيق المواضيع قبل طرحها



دورة تعريب البرامج الأحترافية
ركن الإستفسارات والمشاكل والطلبات
دورة إتقان تعريب الهاكات
ركن الإستفسارات والمشاكل والطلباتمنتديات العز





Posted by: 3zz at January 23, 2011 06:54 PM (5K9zN)

170 Zencart

Blog-applerolo

WordPress-Bflx

Blogetery-Bflx

Blogspot-SexyShoes

bloglines-SexyShoes

palungjit-SexyShoes

blogmas-guitarstore

guitarstore-abacf

Posted by: Zencart at January 24, 2011 04:26 AM (thSDi)

171 The left wing can't wait until this story gets flushed down the memory hole.

Posted by: manofaiki at January 24, 2011 11:52 AM (uSh7j)






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