Palin Does The One Thing She Could Have Done To Get Me On Board With Her Candidacy: Endorsing Paul Ryan's Roadmap to Solvency

Last week, or two weeks ago, when I was arguing about Palin in the comments, I thought about writing, "Well, if Palin wants to convince me she's serious-minded, she can endorse Ryan's roadmap on entitlements/spending; but that's not really a fair bar for me to set, because she almost certainly won't do that. Too risky, too big."

Well, she endorsed it.

Out: Opposing Palin

In: Open to Palin

Put simply: Our country is on the path toward bankruptcy. We must turn around before it's too late, and the Roadmap offers a clear plan for doing so. But it does more than just fend off disaster. CBO calculations show that the Roadmap would also help create a "much more favorable macroeconomic outlook" for the next half-century. The CBO estimates that under the Roadmap, by 2058 per-person GDP would be around 70% higher than the current trend.

Is Rep. Ryan's Roadmap perfect? Of course not—no government plan ever is. But it's the best plan on the table at a time when doing nothing is no longer an option.

Let's not settle for the big-government status quo, which is what the president's commission offers. We owe it to our children and grandchildren to make these tough decisions so that they might inherit a prosperous and strong America like the one we were given.

Further Thoughts: It is hardly a secret that I was not a fan of Palin's decision to quit the governorship, if she intended a bid for higher office. I thought she was qualified, based on her record, to be Vice President, but hardly overqualified. Still something of a novice and untested, the half-term as governor provided a limited credential that she was up to running the country -- should be called to, if McCain died, in a couple of years -- but still and all, in a perfect world, I'd've preferred if she had more experience, even for the VP slot.

For the actual presidential slot, I thought her experience was simply deficient.

Palin's supporters argued that quitting the governorship was something of a plus, because it "freed her up" to take bold positions on big important national issues. I wasn't convinced, for a couple of reasons: For one thing, she could still do her FaceBook commentaries and op-eds while sitting as a serving governor.

For another thing, I didn't consider her previous efforts all that "bold" at all. I agreed with what she was saying, by and large, but it wasn't bold, as it's never a "bold" move to preach conservative doctrine to a conservative audience. That's not to say doing so is wrong, or unnecessary, or cowardly, but it's also not "bold" by any definition of the term. A "bold" move must carry risks.

Well, this is certainly a bold move. The tradeoff her supporters spoke of -- okay, not as much seasoning or experience, but now with greater boldness -- is now actually in existence, and it's a fair tradeoff.

On the other hand, this actually makes her less likely to win an election. The Roadmap has a lot of third-rail stuff in it that will make it unpopular, and will be demogogued with glee by the liberals. That said, some risks are worth taking, and to me, the future solvency of the country is such a risk. Yes, by endorsing an unpopular suite of politically-dangerous but financially-crucial reforms, a hypothetical Candidate Palin would be at an even greater disadvantage to a pandering Obama; but if there's a possible payoff to a risk, it's worth it.

Also, this makes me think she's actually a little bit less likely to seek the presidency at all -- this is a sort of Suicide Charge, and more likely to be the move of an outsider hoping to influence the debate, rather than a future candidate.

Still, if she did decide on a Death or Glory run at the Presidency with the intent to push for some truly momentous (and needed) reforms, I'd be in favor of her, all things being equal. If she were going to run mostly as a standard, safe candidate, I'd prefer someone without her heavy baggage. If we're going to have a standard, safe candidate anyway, why not the more-electable John Thune, Mitch Daniels, Tim Pawlenty, or Mike Pence?

But, if she's going to take a position that others don't dare take, then that recommends her.

I don't think I'm actually on Team Palin yet, but I'm off Team Anyone But Palin.

Posted by: Ace at 01:05 PM



Comments

1 Sukie Tawdry First. First time.

Posted by: Sukie Tawdry at December 10, 2010 01:06 PM (jbCcb)

2 OK. Now I'll say something. Ace's movement on SP is impressive.

Posted by: Sukie Tawdry at December 10, 2010 01:09 PM (jbCcb)

3 Yeah this is great an all, but still:

She quit an executive position as the leader of a State to devote herself to squabbling with left-wing pundits and starring in her own reality TV show.

Is that seriously presidential material?

The 2012 election will be about experience. Palin voluntarily gave up her chance to establish that. I like her and all, but she cannot win.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:09 PM (Nljcu)

4 The slow road to socialism stills gets you to socialism. When she offers a list of federal departments that will be closed, like EPA, FDA, Ag Dept., and Dept of Education, then I'll listen.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at December 10, 2010 01:09 PM (hiFDo)

5 Palin is growing on me. I am more and more viewing her as anti-establishment - like pro-market, not pro-business, for example.

So, what will all the progs who say the Tea Party doesn't have a spending plan say now?

Posted by: sexypig at December 10, 2010 01:09 PM (CBS84)

6 Well, Ace, you endorsed the "Ryan Roadmap," too, so I guess I should be open to your Presidential candidacy....

Ace/Ewok '12!

Posted by: MrScribbler© at December 10, 2010 01:10 PM (Ulu3i)

7
She's not running.

So that makes this either moot or academic.

I dunno which. Maybe both.

Maybe neither. I'm not Dr Johnson.

Posted by: Soothsayer for RNC Chair at December 10, 2010 01:10 PM (uFokq)

8 Palin is obviously not risk-averse.

Her endorsement of the roadmap in her WSJ oped today isn't surprising, she has spoken highly of Ryan and his plan in the past.

She's also taken DeMint's side on the compromise, because of the 600billion or so of spending, not related to the "tax cuts," that is not offset by spending cuts elsewhere.


Posted by: Palinbot #2,503,588 at December 10, 2010 01:11 PM (BZEkR)

9 Uh oh, the Ewok has a boner for Palin. I demand photo evidence!

Posted by: Ms Choksondik at December 10, 2010 01:11 PM (3jZ02)

10 I do believe Palin will prove herself over time. She is real. Her commitment to conservative ideals comes from who she is. It is time to start talking about he on the issues and not her IQ as imagined by the MSM and lefty snots.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2010 01:12 PM (o3bYL)

11 And so it goes. Be nice if she wasn't a voice in the wilderness among the Beltway Bastards.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 10, 2010 01:12 PM (ud5dN)

12 Thanks for being open minded Ace. I will keep working on you until I get you to 100% support

Posted by: Dan at December 10, 2010 01:12 PM (1jzSs)

13
Can't we just have paul Ryan as president? He's well spoken. I like Palin, but her speaking abilityis the suck.

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at December 10, 2010 01:12 PM (0fzsA)

14 i'll vote for her just to see her legs
but then again i'm a pig

Posted by: navycopjoe at December 10, 2010 01:13 PM (S9k9+)

15 How many times did she miss that caribou? I'm afraid that's going to be hard to overlook.

Posted by: Virginia Bob at December 10, 2010 01:13 PM (xh3gA)

16
If you think about it, Paul Ryan's Roadmap is the only agenda the Republicans have.

That's not good. We're going into an important election season with our future hanging in the balance with no discernible agenda.


Posted by: Soothsayer for RNC Chair at December 10, 2010 01:13 PM (uFokq)

17 So, the Scientology rumors ain't true? Just asking...

Posted by: Radioactive Satellite Of LOVE at December 10, 2010 01:13 PM (LdYLm)

18 "She quit an executive position as the leader of a State to devote herself to squabbling with left-wing pundits and starring in her own reality TV show."

Obama quite his Senate gig to move into the world's biggest reality TV show.

Obama is like Clinton with pot. Now its okay just to read a teleprompter well. Palin can announce that everything will come via facebook.

I mean, yes, I am joking here, and agree with you that she is not really presidential material, but who else is now? Maybe Mitchie Poo can come out and endorse this plan?

Breitbart on Adam Carolla said "Palin vs. Obama in 2012 would be the biggest reality TV show ever made." This worries me because it now seems much more likely to happen. It soothes me because that will be my attitude. Fuck it. Let's eat popcorn and vote Obama off the Island.

Posted by: sexypig at December 10, 2010 01:14 PM (CBS84)

19 She didn't miss with Becker's rifle.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2010 01:14 PM (o3bYL)

20 In before the . . . aw shit.

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at December 10, 2010 01:14 PM (Wnhy1)

21 She quit an executive position as the leader of a State to devote herself to squabbling with left-wing pundits and starring in her own reality TV show. Is that seriously presidential material? That's a résumé with one executive position and one reality TV show more than what we have now.

Posted by: FireHorse at December 10, 2010 01:15 PM (sWynj)

22 The CBO estimates that under the Roadmap, by 2058 per-person GDP would be around 70% higher than the current trend.
And, with inflation, that per-person GDP will be worth one third of what it is now.

Posted by: Vashta Nerada at December 10, 2010 01:15 PM (hiFDo)

23 I'll tell you what, I still don't much like Palin for prez in '12, but after hearing that douche Santorum basically announce his run this morning on Bennett . . . let's just say I prefer her to that giant egotist. I'm sure she's an egotist too, but she's a piker compared to Rick.

Posted by: BlackOrchid at December 10, 2010 01:15 PM (SB0V2)

24 She is being heard.

Posted by: JustMe at December 10, 2010 01:15 PM (pzv1l)

25 In: Open to Palin


Yes, but will you support her pick of O'Donnell as VP?

Posted by: Rocks at December 10, 2010 01:15 PM (Q1lie)

26 I really really like Palin, but I don't want her as our candidate. I just don't think she can pull enough independents, especially women (women don't seem to support other women in politics). But she is again absolutely right in supporting the Ryan Roadmap. I will say a Pence/Palin has a nice ring to it though.

Nevertheless, I am quite pessimistic until we have a flat tax, surplus budgets, and a rein in of the Fed, we are on a collision course with reality. I don't expect to see any of those three things in the next decade.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 10, 2010 01:16 PM (b75eT)

27 Good to hear!

Mr. Ace, you have spared me the cognitive dissonance from having my favorite blogger and favorite pol at odds with each other.

Posted by: Serious Cat at December 10, 2010 01:16 PM (8hzY/)

28 3-I like her and all, but she cannot win.

That's why we have primaries. I think she is going to surprise you.

Posted by: Palinbot #2,503,588 at December 10, 2010 01:16 PM (BZEkR)

29 sexypig and Firehose,

I was expecting such tu quoque arguments from Palin fanboys. To which I respond:

Claiming Palin is qualified for the job by comparing her to favorably to perhaps the most unqualified candidate in US history is a nonsense rhetorical argument. It's no better than a kid getting in trouble and saying "Billy did it too!"

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:18 PM (Nljcu)

30 It's OK not to want her as a candidate. Knock yourself out. Who is going to take it from her?

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2010 01:18 PM (o3bYL)

31 Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:09 PM (Nljcu)


She "quit" to avoid going bankrupt, costing the state millions, finishing her term with an approval rating in the 30's, and handing the Governorship to a dem.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 01:18 PM (ISaDW)

32 21 She quit an executive position as the leader of a State to devote herself to squabbling with left-wing pundits and starring in her own reality TV show. Is that seriously presidential material? That's a résumé with one executive position and one reality TV show more than what we have now.
Posted by: FireHorse at December 10, 2010 01:15 PM (sWynj)
And she's written two books. I think that right there equals the biggest accomplishments of Obama's life.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 01:18 PM (oVQFe)

33 Who is your guy, James?

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2010 01:19 PM (o3bYL)

34 Something's amiss when her endorsement of the roadmap gets more press than the points behind the roadmap itself.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 10, 2010 01:19 PM (pLTLS)

35 28 3-I like her and all, but she cannot win.That's why we have primaries. I think she is going to surprise you.
Ditto! Honestly, the 'she can't win' crap is a self-fulfilling prophecy if you say it enough.
Me? hell yeah, she can win!

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 01:19 PM (Ty06w)

36 After you win a primary and after you debate Obama on stage, independents will see the light.

They will be the most watched debates in history.

Independents are not even paying attention to politics right now. Most make up their minds with 1 month or 2 to go in the election.

Posted by: Dan at December 10, 2010 01:19 PM (1jzSs)

37 I think Ryan's roadmap is the only realistic plan now in the public eye for dealing with our grotesque national indebtedness, but it will never be substantively implemented as long asenough Democrats exist to block it. It's painfully obvious that we must either abolish or completely restructure our main entitlement programs (especially Medicare/Medicaid and SS), but the recipients of this largesse will howl loud and long if their welfarepayouts are threatened.
Some are even whispering of a dark plan on the GOP's part to drive the states into bankruptcy as a double-barreled strategy of both stopping the bailout of the states and breaking the public-employee unions.
Palin's endorsement of the plan does give it a higher profile, though, and will push it a little further into the public eye. We desperately need to start fixing this problem, but it will require politicians with enough backbone to go up against both the public-sector unions and many seniors who will scream bloody murder if Uncle Sugar attempts to reduce their SS checks.

Posted by: Monty at December 10, 2010 01:20 PM (4Pleu)

38 She quit an executive position as the leader of a State to devote herself to squabbling with left-wing pundits and starring in her own reality TV show.
That'sa crock of bullshit and you know it. At least try to state a fact if you're trying to make a salient point around here.
She was the victim of frivolous lawsuits that were negatively affecting her ability to govern the state. Had you been paying any attention, you'd have known that.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at December 10, 2010 01:20 PM (b6qrg)

39 what is 'presidental material'?
the president is the direct representation of the people
and no one who is possibly running is more like the average joe than Teh Cuda.....she has our values, our upbringing, our inner fire to do what's right for our kid's future
as commander-in-chief this woman would be adored by the troops and vise versa

Posted by: navycopjoe at December 10, 2010 01:20 PM (S9k9+)

40 The interesting thing about Washington is that the resume is measured by quantity. Consider Joe Biden.
Joe Biden has a long resume on foreign policy.
And he has been wrong every single time.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 10, 2010 01:20 PM (BvBKY)

41 Something's amiss when her endorsement of the roadmap gets more press than the points behind the roadmap itself.
Sometimes you need star power to get people serious about looking at something.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 10, 2010 01:20 PM (b75eT)

42 Something's amiss when her endorsement of the roadmap gets more press than the points behind the roadmap itself.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 10, 2010 01:19 PM (pLTLS)
Could it be because nobody but us political junkies know or care who Paul Ryan is?

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 01:20 PM (chhYn)

43 Indy voters already agree with her on the issues, IE securing border, low taxes, less spending, energy production...All she has to do is outline that during debates and through TV commercials.

She will do that. Her commercials will be unique and uplifting.

Posted by: Dan at December 10, 2010 01:21 PM (1jzSs)

44 Nice turnaround, Ace. The ewok was about to find out what the mooses already know.

Posted by: Cicero at December 10, 2010 01:21 PM (QKKT0)

45 I like that the WSJ put Palin's op-ed in its Friday edition... where it appears opposite Peggy Noonan's weekly column. Must be galling to ol' Peg to be forced to share the same page with that "nincompoop" from Alaska.

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 01:22 PM (chhYn)

46 "Who is your guy, James?"

I have no idea at this point because I have no idea who is even running. All I know is NOT Huckabee!

As far as "she can't win," part of the point of a primary is fostering debate among a party of which of their candidates has the greatest national appeal and chance of winning.

It's pig headed to just say: let the primary sort it all out, then it will be settled.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:22 PM (Nljcu)

47 There are a lot of people around who either tried to stop Sarah Palin form getting something she wanted, told her she couldn't do something or got in her way. None of them are smiling.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2010 01:22 PM (o3bYL)

48 She "quit" to avoid going bankrupt, costing the state millions, finishing her term with an approval rating in the 30's, and handing the Governorship to a dem.Since then, she's written 2 books as well as multipleop-ed pieces etc. She's a master of FB and Twitter. The reality TV show is a way to show who she is while controlling the bias. To me, in today's media and image age, she's brilliant.

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 01:22 PM (Ty06w)

49 I'd like her as president I just don't really want her to run in 2012. The path I'd like her to take is to endorse the winner of 2012, run for Alaska's Senate seat in 2014, and then after one or 2 terms as a senator run for president.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 01:22 PM (oVQFe)

50 She has my support, and I'll send her money ... that is if we still have money come 2012.

Posted by: Paladin at December 10, 2010 01:23 PM (ycm4Q)

51 She's also taken DeMint's side on the compromise, because of the
600billion or so of spending, not related to the "tax cuts," that is not
offset by spending cuts elsewhere.

Do you have a link for that? Not that I doubt you. I'd just like elaboration on the point in her own words.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 10, 2010 01:23 PM (mHQ7T)

52 Re: VP pick speculation

My prediction, Palin would pick Sussana Martinez for VP slot.

Palin/Martinez 2012!!

Posted by: Serious Cat at December 10, 2010 01:23 PM (8hzY/)

53 >>>Is that seriously presidential material?

No, it's not, but a serious, politically-risky proposal having to do with a "smart" sort of subject -- government reform -- is.

I don't like most of Palin's other moves, but this move is in fact presidential.

Posted by: ace at December 10, 2010 01:23 PM (nj1bB)

54
Hal fucking Rogers.

That's all I'm gonna say.

If you don't know who he is, then you don't know dick-all about what's going on.


Posted by: Soothsayer for RNC Chair at December 10, 2010 01:24 PM (uFokq)

55 buzzion I ABSOLUTELY agree. I like her; but she needs to go it a bit more slowly; I don't want to live to see another neophyte in the Presidency.

I'm just risk-averse that way, I guess. I completely endorse your little fantasy-timeline for her there.

Posted by: BlackOrchid at December 10, 2010 01:24 PM (SB0V2)

56 "he was the victim of frivolous lawsuits that were negatively affecting her ability to govern the state. Had you been paying any attention, you'd have known that."

Bush was the victim of such lawsuits for 8 years...still is. But he didn't quit.

You guys can make excuses for her all you want, but the BIG thing in this election is experience...and Palin gave it up.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:24 PM (Nljcu)

57
These 'fantasy-presidential-league' discussions are getting tiresome.

Posted by: Soothsayer for RNC Chair at December 10, 2010 01:25 PM (uFokq)

58 James, I'll put on the landing lights for you. The primaries are here it gets settled. It is not "pig headed" to acknowledge reality.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2010 01:25 PM (o3bYL)

59 41 Something's amiss when her endorsement of the roadmap gets more press than the points behind the roadmap itself.Sometimes you need star power to get people serious about looking at something.
Posted by: Guy Fawkes at December 10, 2010 01:20 PM (b75eT)
The guy's behind the program to start the atomic bomb knew this by getting einstein to write the letter to FDR.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 01:25 PM (oVQFe)

60 56. James, that's not fair at all - Palin doesn't have the money the Bushes have!

which is something I like about her . . .

Posted by: BlackOrchid at December 10, 2010 01:25 PM (SB0V2)

61 45 I like that the WSJ put Palin's op-ed in its Friday edition... where it appears opposite Peggy Noonan's weekly column. Must be galling to ol' Peg to be forced to share the same page with that "nincompoop" from Alaska.
Or the "Omigod, 1773! She's stupid!" bit the tweets on the butt... now the "CS Lewis is a children's book author and SP uses him for religious advice-- how STUPID!" again will show how incredible STUPID liberals are.One of the great theological writers of our times and they say SHE is stupid... please Gerty, get off the boat.

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 01:25 PM (Ty06w)

62 In: Open to Palin

This. Be open. Not the much derided "fan", nor the reflexsive opposition like James above. Be open. Let it be known that the roadmap is a subject that can be discussed, and which can garner support, or at least your time and attention. The roadmap or something like it in a way is more important than any one candidate.
Be open to Pence or Daniels.
Give Huckabee and Romney the chance to explain why this time they can triumph.
And then we decide and support that person as best we can.

Posted by: Blue Hen at December 10, 2010 01:25 PM (R2fpr)

63 She "quit" to avoid going bankrupt, costing the
state millions, finishing her term with an approval rating in the 30's,
and handing the Governorship to a dem.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 01:18 PM (ISaDW)
Wait, she chose to give up office instead of clinging to it regardless of how many people got hurt by her staying?Well, she must not be much of a politician, then. Nearly every other politician I've ever heard of would have fought tooth and nail for his or her own personal perks, prestige and power, the good of his or her family and constituents be damned.

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 01:26 PM (chhYn)

64
James, didn't I explain to you a few weeks that your time is better spent shitting in your hat rather than subjecting us to your opinion?

Posted by: Soothsayer for RNC Chair at December 10, 2010 01:26 PM (uFokq)

65 She quit an executive position as the leader of a State to devote
herself to squabbling with left-wing pundits and starring in her own
reality TV show.

This is a silly talking point should be put to rest. I expect the liberal propagandists and their ignorant followers to keep using this talking point because they cannot argue about policies. Did she quit Alaska? No, her lieutenant governor continues her policies and keeps the state in decent shape. She helped save the legal cost and the distraction to implement her policies in Alaska. Did she quit the fight? She took it to Obama and the left on a national scale. They cannot attack Alaska as a collateral casualty in their sewage attack against her. And again, she is moving the debate forward for fiscal conservatism in a big way. She is smart enough to wait for the election to be over before starting this major debates. Where are other smart people? IF she is dumb, then the other folks are super-dumb or they are simply too "calculating"!

Anyway, I appreciate Ace's open-mindedness.

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 01:27 PM (R4ub4)

66 Breitbart on Adam Carolla said "Palin vs. Obama in
2012 would be the biggest reality TV show ever made." This worries me
because it now seems much more likely to happen. It soothes me because
that will be my attitude. Fuck it. Let's eat popcorn and vote Obama off
the Island.

Posted by: sexypig at December 10, 2010 01:14 PM (CBS84)
This sums up my feelings about Palin, as well. I am beyond caring. Anything is better than Obama, and I haven't seen a strong Republican challenger come forward yet. It's early, but I would support Palin just so liberals would finally leave the country like they're always threatening to.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 10, 2010 01:27 PM (mHQ7T)

67 How is my opposition "reflexive"? I give what I think to be good reasons. You may disagree, but that's a different matter.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:27 PM (Nljcu)

68 I'd rather see her as the chair of the GOP, although her current position as Tea Party gadfly seems to suit her well. She is free to voice her opinions and folks pay attention to her in a way that I don't think would happen as much if she were still in office.
Can't think of any sitting governors who have their own reality show, unless maybe you count the Round Mound of Fiscally Sound, Chris Christie.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at December 10, 2010 01:27 PM (b6qrg)

69 Now, now morons. Just because the head ewok states he is open to Palin lets not go sniffing moose butts just yet. He has a long way to go.

Posted by: mpfs, licensed moose butt sniffer at December 10, 2010 01:27 PM (iYbLN)

70 >>>She quit an executive position as the leader of a State to devote herself to squabbling with left-wing pundits and starring in her own reality TV show.

Responded to by:

>>>That's a crock of bullshit and you know it. At least try to state a fact if you're trying to make a salient point around here.

>>>She was the victim of frivolous lawsuits that were negatively affecting her ability to govern the state. Had you been paying any attention, you'd have known that.

Backwards Boy, you're wrong. Especially in tone. "Had you been paying any attention." You regurgitate the excuses/rationales for Palin quittinjg a *governorship* as if everyone should of course just say, "Oh yeah, OBVIOUSLY you should quit under those conditions."

You sound like the Clinton fans who would get angry in claiming, "DUH, under those conditions, OF COURSE he should have lied!!!"

Well, no. A supporter of someone is far more likely to sympathize with that person's troubles and their decisions. But please stop acting as if this is due to more than sympathy.

The first poster is right -- all of that was a bad move, in terms of positioning and experience.

But there other inputs. This last thing, for example, is a big input on the pro-Palin side.



Posted by: ace at December 10, 2010 01:28 PM (nj1bB)

71 Posted by: Blue Hen


Heresy!!! All views and candidate choices must be locked in at least 4 years in advance of the election, everyone knows that.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 10, 2010 01:28 PM (Z6Mgb)

72 It's pretty simple.
Quantitative Easing.
Who understands the nuance -- show of hands??
Now who the hell do you want explaning it to the public?
Someone like her or Ryan/Pence/McDaniels?

Posted by: laceyunderalls at December 10, 2010 01:29 PM (pLTLS)

73 DAMN IT ALL TO HELL ,ACE santa 'told' didn't he?
Out: Opposing Palin
In: Open to Palin
thanks for the early gift. you're almost there, you adorable little Ewok. XXOO

Posted by: pitchforksandpowder at December 10, 2010 01:29 PM (GStPL)

74 Bush was the victim of such lawsuits for 8 years...still is. But he didn't quit.





You guys can make excuses for her all you want, but the BIG thing in this election is experience...and Palin gave it up.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:24 PM (Nljcu)
Unclear on the difference between Federal law and Alaskan state law, are we?Not only could Palin not draw on State funds for her legal defense, but her opponents sued to make it impossible for her to collect donations for a legal defense fund.I wonder why it is that we Americans never declared Robert Byrd President by acclamation -- after all, he was the most experienced politician of all time.

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 01:29 PM (chhYn)

75 "James, didn't I explain to you a few weeks that your time is better spent shitting in your hat rather than subjecting us to your opinion?"

Having spent a great deal of time trying to reason with retards in my professional life, I will gladly consent to that.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:29 PM (Nljcu)

76 Did she quit Alaska? No, her lieutenant governor continues her policies
and keeps the state in decent shape. She helped save the legal cost and
the distraction to implement her policies in Alaska.

You know what I say when people bring up the "quitter" meme. "So?" Does anyone actually think Palin would quit being the President?

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 10, 2010 01:29 PM (mHQ7T)

77 Ya know for the last week conservatives4palin and the other top pro Palin websites have been attacked by left wing hackers non stop. They are just starting to get back up now.

She is making a real impact and is damaging Obama and the entire left wing orthodoxy. I know it and the left wing marxist progressives know it too.

Posted by: Dan at December 10, 2010 01:29 PM (1jzSs)

78 Bush was the victim of such lawsuits for 8 years...still is. But he didn't quit. You're undermining your point by mischaracterizing things. Bush was not personally liable and it did not effect his ability to govern. The reform laws in Alaska could be abused to bankrupt a politician and the state in a way that it cannot be done at the Federal level (or, indeed, in most other states).
But I think you know that.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 10, 2010 01:29 PM (BvBKY)

79 Posted by: BackwardsBoy at December 10, 2010 01:20 PM (b6qrg)


Exactly. I wonder if these dumbasses who whine about her "quitting" (why is this word only used to describe her resignation? I never hear it used about anybody else who left office early) realize that the AK Governorship would probably be held by a Dem right now had she finished her term. Instead, Parnell won in a landslide and is continuing on with her policies. She also did a lot of work behind the scenes to get like-minded people elected to the state legislature.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 01:30 PM (ISaDW)

80 >>>She quit an executive position as the leader of a State to devote herself to squabbling with left-wing pundits and starring in her own reality TV show.

>>>>This is a silly talking point should be put to rest.

Again, I don't think it is. Anyone claiming that being a TV personality is a Step UP from a governorship is on crack.

But, such deficiencies can be overcome by strengths in other areas.

Posted by: ace at December 10, 2010 01:30 PM (nj1bB)

81 The interesting thing about Washington is that the resume is measured by quantity. Consider Joe Biden.
Joe Biden has a long resume on foreign policy.
And he has been wrong every single time.
Posted by: AmishDude

But he's not a quitter! He's a fucking idiot. But he's not a quitter.

Posted by: Blue Hen at December 10, 2010 01:30 PM (R2fpr)

82 Bush was the victim of such lawsuits for 8 years...still is. But he didn't quit.
Refresh my memory. Who was it that sued Bush for wearing a jacket with a logo on it?

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at December 10, 2010 01:31 PM (b6qrg)

83 "You know what I say when people bring up the "quitter" meme. "So?" Does anyone actually think Palin would quit being the President?"

That's not the issue! The issue is having a candidate with an extensive track record of executive experience!

Everyone here loves making that point against Obama, but when someone tries making it against Palin, the knives come out.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:31 PM (Nljcu)

84 I'd rather see her as the chair of the GOP, although her current position as Tea Party gadfly seems to suit her well.

She has made it clear by supporting Michael Steele that she is uninterested in the RNC chair, which is too bad, but whatever.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 10, 2010 01:32 PM (mHQ7T)

85 The first poster is right -- all of that was a bad move, in terms of positioning and experience.



But there other inputs. This last thing, for example, is a big input on the pro-Palin side.

This point is fine. But it is an easy one to explain if one cares to. The point is that many on the right would rather use this as an excuse to be anti-Palin rather than looking at the big picture. For example, Christie screwed up the education funding and said many other un-conservative things like immigration etc... Yet I don't want to use that an excuse simply to be anti-Christie. The point is that this excuse is getting old. Jindal made a bad speech. But he is my top choice besides Palin at this point.

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 01:33 PM (R4ub4)

86 So one of the things to consider is who will be running in the primaries.

If your big three choices are Romney, Huckabee, or Palin who are you going to vote for?

Unfortunately, we don't get to pick a perfect candidate, and if we look at the three factor for every one - electability, post-election competence, and commitment to conservatism who is the best choice - again out of those who will have a serious shot on the primaries?

Oh, and do keep in mind that McCain basically ran 100% on electability...and lost.

As I've said before, if the Republican establishment doesn't want Palin as our nominee they better be coalescing around a real conservative now - because otherwise the race will be hers if she wants it.

Posted by: 18-1 at December 10, 2010 01:33 PM (7BU4a)

87 The worst thing about Ryan's plan--and he caught a lot of flak for it--was the VAT he proposed. But he's said that is out, to be replaced by ??? something.

What I like about the plan, and Ryan, and Palin, is that they all start with the assumption that Ocare is OUT and will be rolled back.

Posted by: Palinbot #2,503,588 at December 10, 2010 01:33 PM (BZEkR)

88 Bottom line: It doesn't matter who doesn't want her or why. Anyone who wants it will have to take it away from her.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2010 01:33 PM (o3bYL)

89 She has made it clear by supporting Michael Steele that she is uninterested in the RNC chair, which is too bad, but whatever.
I have so much distain for the GOP and the GOP chair is such a tits on a bull job. Granted, it may be the past leaders were such but I'd hate to she her demeaned and lowered to that level.

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 01:33 PM (Ty06w)

90 "But I think you know that."

I do, but Palin also had donors lined up to contribute to a legal fund.

Besides, since when is giving up in the face of leftist thuggery a desirable quality in a Republican politician?

Go help Chris Christie if he ever does such a thing!

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:34 PM (Nljcu)

91 But he's not a quitter! He's a fucking idiot. But he's not a quitter.

Posted by: Blue Hen at December 10, 2010 01:30 PM (R2fpr)
Hey, did I ever tell you about how I left community organizing? No? Good...

Posted by: Barack Obama at December 10, 2010 01:34 PM (7BU4a)

92 Regarding the GOP nom in 2012: I'll vote for Palin if she's the nominee, but she wouldn't be my first choice. (Or my second, or my third.) But this is the thing about elections: I don't get to vote for whoever I want, I have to select from the candidates who are running.

Example: let's say it comes down to Romney or Palin. I'd take Palin in a heartbeat over Romney, purely because Romney would be a dead man in the general due to his MassCare initiative (which he's never managed to explain or defend adequately). Against Tim Pawlenty? Tim's my guy. Against Newt? Palin, no contest. Newt is a dick. Against Jindal (presuming he runs)? Jindal in a heartbeat.

It's all about the choices I have when I enter the voting booth. Palin is fully capable of being President -- I don't buy the "she's not smart/experienced" argument -- but I think there are better choices. Further, I think Palin serves the GOP better as a spokesman and public face than she does as a candidate: she brings a little sizzle and spark to a party that is often seen (not incorrectly) as behind-the-times and boring.

Posted by: Monty at December 10, 2010 01:35 PM (4Pleu)

93 But there other inputs.
Not with Sarah.

Posted by: Todd Palin at December 10, 2010 01:35 PM (Du9+F)

94 Hell, I give her extra credit for being too smart to take the RNC job.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2010 01:35 PM (o3bYL)

95 Bush was the victim of such lawsuits for 8 years...still is. But he didn't quit.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:24 PM (Nljcu)


Really? Bush had lawsuits filed against him for holding a fish, wearing an ArcticCat jacket, and eating a cookie at an event, and was forced to pay his legal bills out of his own pocket, and had to have his entire staff gathering evidence and appearing in court full time? I wasn't aware of that, why don't you put me some fuckin' knowledge about it?

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 01:35 PM (ISaDW)

96 Claiming Palin is qualified for the job by comparing her to favorably to perhaps the most unqualified candidate in US history is a nonsense rhetorical argument.
It was intended to be a nonsense argument. Seriously, the only two things that qualify one for the job is winning the Electoral College and avoiding being declared ineligible. (There's also ascending to the job by way of the vice presidency, but the same criteria apply to running mates.)
So, to remain serious, Obama is as qualified to be president as anyone who has ever held the office. The focus, therefore, shouldn't be whether he was or is qualified. It's whether he's doing a piss-poor job.
As for Palin: How do you think she would she do as president?

Posted by: FireHorse at December 10, 2010 01:35 PM (sWynj)

97 Everyone here loves making that point against Obama, but when someone tries making it against Palin, the knives come out.
If you are an Obama supporter, then this makes sense. Despite her flaws, she is still a huge improvement over Obama. If you want her not to run, then promote a better candidates, who need to do it themselves first. If they want to hide behind her for fear of the attacks, then why aiding the opposition in attacking her?

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 01:36 PM (R4ub4)

98 Again, I don't think it is. Anyone claiming that being a TV personality is a Step UP from a governorship is on crack.





But, such deficiencies can be overcome by strengths in other areas.







Posted by: ace at December 10, 2010 01:30 PM (nj1bB)
She didn't leave office because her REAL ambition was to write books and be on TV.She left office because the tactic of filing frivolous ethics complaints against her threatened not only to bankrupt her family but to grind the business of the State of Alaska to a halt. She didn't want to cling desperately to office at the cost of denying Alaska an effective governor because she'd be dealing full-time with harassment. So she resigned, turned her seat over to the Lt. Governor of her own party, and knew that she had other options outside elective office.

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 01:36 PM (chhYn)

99 Out: Opposing Palin
I'm out, baby!
...and I'm lovin' every minute of it!

Posted by: Cosmo Kramer at December 10, 2010 01:36 PM (Du9+F)

100 Palin has exactly what it takes to get my vote for President.

Love of Country.

Constitutionalist.

An actual, honest, solid commitment to basic conservative principles coupled with the actual, honest, solid commitment to act in accordance with those basic conservative principles, as proven by her record.

Fearless in the face of the Democrat Party and their allies, especially the Democrat Media. Fully ready, willing and able to take the fight to the enemy.

Not a member of the GOP Country Club Establishment.

Not a stranger to working for a living.

Posted by: davidt at December 10, 2010 01:36 PM (9Pzy7)

101 Which person went down to Arizona and stood on stage with Jan Brewer to defend the Arizona immigration law? Yup, it was Sarah.

She is not afraid of the race card being dealt at her from the bottom of the deck.

Posted by: Dan at December 10, 2010 01:37 PM (1jzSs)

102 I'd rather see her as the chair of the GOP, although her current position as Tea Party gadfly seems to suit her well. She is free to voice her opinions and folks pay attention to her in a way that I don't think would happen as much if she were still in office.
I agree and what makes her refreshing is that, even if you think she might want higher office, she seems to make decisions based on what she believes to be in the best interest of the country. She'll touch the third rails, she'll rally the base, she charts her own course and doesn't listen to consultants.
I also think she isn't running if she finds a candidate to her liking. But she can't drop out or nobody pays attention to her. The Iowa straw poll in 7-8 months will be very interesting. And I have to say that I don't know if she likes any of the potential candidates. I do know that she can suppress Huckabee support if she stays in the fray.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 10, 2010 01:37 PM (BvBKY)

103 Ace well looky there.

Good on you.

And not only have you realized that Palin is not someone that must be reflexively opposed, but also, she's not running.

Posted by: blaster at December 10, 2010 01:37 PM (MrMxG)

104 101 Which person went down to Arizona and stood on stage with Jan Brewer to defend the Arizona immigration law? Yup, it was Sarah. She is not afraid of the race card being dealt at her from the bottom of the deck.
Again, when the 'boys' of the GOP start having balls as big as Palin, I'll listen. Until then...Huck, Rom, Pawl, Thune etc can go suck each others toes.

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 01:38 PM (Ty06w)

105 Someone ring the nurse! I think Ace is coming out of his coma!

Posted by: Crusty at December 10, 2010 01:38 PM (GvSpB)

106 Thanks for being open minded Ace. I will keep working on you until I get your to 100% support.

Posted by: rrrRon...PAUL!!1! at December 10, 2010 01:38 PM (hrwMe)

107 It's all about the choices I have when I enter the voting booth. Palin is fully capable of being President -- I don't buy the "she's not smart/experienced" argument -- but I think there are better choices.

That 's fine. But so far those better choices haven't shown up yet. Why the better choices don't endorse Ryan 's roadmap? Maybe they are afraid of the attack from the left?

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 01:38 PM (R4ub4)

108 O/T -- I thought you guys said COD was going to use her excess funds to buy a new house.

Posted by: RushBabe at December 10, 2010 01:38 PM (a3Z62)

109 >>>This point is fine. But it is an easy one to explain if one cares to. The point is that many on the right would rather use this as an excuse to be anti-Palin rather than looking at the big picture.

It's not an excuse. There were two bad things here:

1. She began with only slight experience at the high level of government -- two years as governor. Rather than get the full four years (or more), she quit, thus limiting her experience to that thin resume. This is an opportunity lost.

2. It is in fact a capricious and flighty sort of decision to make, and generally I want my presidents solid and boring, with very settled lives. This is a scary thing about Palin, that her life seems sort of unsettled, that she makes this decision and then that.

Some may find charm in that and liveliness and an interesting searching aspect to character, but many people want their presidents to be more solidly, boringly middle-to-upper-class and predictable in their career choices.

To each his own, but this isn't an "excuse." This is a real, legitimate reason to find fault with her.

Further, Palin and her supporters are fond of noting that every single one of the ethics charges against her were dismissed... do they not see the undermining of their claims here? If each ethics charge was being properly dismissed, why the great, pressing need to resign?

Posted by: ace at December 10, 2010 01:38 PM (nj1bB)

110 I do, but Palin also had donors lined up to contribute to a legal fund.





Besides, since when is giving up in the face of leftist thuggery a desirable quality in a Republican politician?





Go help Chris Christie if he ever does such a thing!

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:34 PM (Nljcu)
Except that her opponents sued to have her legal defense fund declared itself an illegal and unethical attempt to profit from her elected office. Apparently you are ignorant of that fact.

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 01:38 PM (chhYn)

111 There are no third rails in politics any more. Only third legs. And mine is the biggest.

Posted by: Ronald Wilson Reagan at December 10, 2010 01:39 PM (STTZD)

112 100 Palin has exactly what it takes to get my vote for President.Love of Country.Constitutionalist.An actual, honest, solid commitment to basic conservative principles coupled with the actual, honest, solid commitment to act in accordance with those basic conservative principles, as proven by her record.Fearless in the face of the Democrat Party and their allies, especially the Democrat Media. Fully ready, willing and able to take the fight to the enemy.Not a member of the GOP Country Club Establishment.Not a stranger to working for a living.
What he said.

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 01:39 PM (Ty06w)

113 Further, I think Palin serves the GOP better as a
spokesman and public face than she does as a candidate: she brings a
little sizzle and spark to a party that is often seen (not incorrectly)
as behind-the-times and boring.



Posted by: Monty at December 10, 2010 01:35 PM (4Pleu)
I think the problem is that in the early going Huckabee and Romney are going to be the two big candidates, and there will be only one name that has a chance at taking the nomination from them.
I don't see the Republican establishment really giving someone like Jindal a chance - he's not one of the insiders...

Posted by: 18-1 at December 10, 2010 01:39 PM (7BU4a)

114 Everyone here loves making that point against Obama, but when someone tries making it against Palin, the knives come out.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:31 PM (Nljcu)
Obama's lack of executive experience is really an issue, because he's a big pussy. He never could take a stand on an issue, and the one time he ran an enterprise -- the Annenberg challenge -- it failed. His community organizer experience taught him to shake down businesses for campaign contributions. I actually like that Obama is a fuck up, because he wants to hurt America. His transformational ideas are un-American.
So, I have no problem with his lacking executive experience. On top of that, I respect Palin's accomplishments throughout 20 years of public service. She also left her state with a surplus. Her ACES program was a success, and AGIA is going along at a clip. She knows how to run a budget, she cares about fiscal conservatism, and she is knowledgeable on energy. Even if she resigned halfway through her term, I like what she's done so far.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 10, 2010 01:40 PM (mHQ7T)

115 Ace, if I looked like Jennifer Love Hewitt, bought you a bottle of Val-u-rite and served up some hobo toes you would probably be open to me as well.
I always like Palin, but she kind of creeps me out.
Like the chick in the marching band who was a complete dork, buttotally hot and gave great blowjobs.

Posted by: Cluebat from Exodar at December 10, 2010 01:40 PM (BuYeH)

116 Another east coast elite on board, who gives a flying burriton ..what next AllahPuto ??

Posted by: wildwood at December 10, 2010 01:40 PM (VSWPU)

117 "I don't think I'm actually on Team Palin yet, but I'm off Team Anyone But Palin."

Palin is a person of action. Sometimes that is not what is needed above all. This is not one of those times.

Nice to see you progress to actually LOOKING at Palin as she is. Now just catch a few episodes of her TLC show and you will be convert. :-)

Best quote I read about Palinism was at Hot Air --

"Resistance is Futile. You will be Palinized. We will add your ideological distinctiveness to our own -- and then spit it out. Resistance is Futile."

It really is, you know.

Posted by: dougf at December 10, 2010 01:40 PM (rCqtH)

118 Even if the excuse/explanation you guys are giving for her quitting is true and fully justifiable, it doesn't matter.

What matters is how it appears. And it appears like she quit a serious job as an executive to become a pundit and reality TV star.

The Republican base alone is not sufficient to defeat Obama. You need independents, and I very much doubt they will get behind Palin.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:40 PM (Nljcu)

119 She has made it clear by supporting Michael Steele that she is uninterested in the RNC chair, which is too bad, but whatever.
Do you have her recently supporting Steele? The media claim of her support of Michael Steele is almost a year old I believe. And I haven't heard of any more recent support of him.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 01:41 PM (oVQFe)

120 The 2 most important things a president does are

1. Inspire the nation (make us proud to be Americans and of America)

2. Pick the right team members (No president does this job on their own)

The fact she is behind Paul Ryan's plan tells me the kind of team she will pick and what I've seen of her speeches and writing they tend to feed my pride in what America can be again. So unless someone new comes along that I think will do these 2 things better I'm open to her running

Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 10, 2010 01:41 PM (tf9Ne)

121 Example: let's say it comes down to Romney or Palin. I'd take Palin in a heartbeat over Romney, purely because Romney would be a dead man in the general due to his MassCare initiative (which he's never managed to explain or defend adequately). Against Tim Pawlenty? Tim's my guy. Against Newt? Palin, no contest. Newt is a dick. Against Jindal (presuming he runs)? Jindal in a heartbeat. It's all about the choices I have when I enter the voting booth.
I agree wholeheartedly, Monty.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 10, 2010 01:41 PM (BvBKY)

122 She can't win.
The usual suspects have targeted her unfairly and I like her a great deal...but....
She can't win.
And she's not alone on that list. Neither can Newt, neither can Huck. I'm thinking Thune or Pence at this point, but could be persuaded otherwise.
And your Veep is Rubio unless the sun goes supernova on us.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 10, 2010 01:42 PM (B+qrE)

123 Further, Palin and her supporters are fond of noting that every single
one of the ethics charges against her were dismissed... do they not see
the undermining of their claims here? If each ethics charge was being
properly dismissed, why the great, pressing need to resign?


As someone has pointed out. It costs a lot for her family and her state. And it will be constantly in the press with all the accusations. You know these routines from the left. She took the fight to them now without affecting her state who is in her capable successor. She wouldn't be able to take the fight to them if she is still mired in these frivolous suits in Alaska.



Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 01:42 PM (R4ub4)

124 Some may find charm in that and liveliness and an interesting searching aspect to character, butthe GOP Blue Bloods who put McCain inmany people want their presidents to be more solidly, boringly middle-to-upper-class and predictable in their career choices.
FIFY and for me!BTW, I will never ever again vote for anyone like the above, unless I get a written letter from his wife assuring me that he is the King of Foreplay.

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 01:42 PM (Ty06w)

125 Further, Palin and her supporters are fond of noting
that every single one of the ethics charges against her were
dismissed... do they not see the undermining of their claims here? If
each ethics charge was being properly dismissed, why the great, pressing
need to resign?




Posted by: ace at December 10, 2010 01:38 PM (nj1bB)
Because every one of those spurious claims had to be investigated and defended, at her personal expense. She wasn't even allowed to use the legal defense fund that was set up for her, because that became subject to an ethics complaint in its own right: "She's only able to raise the legal defense fund by virtue of her elected office, so the donations to the fund are actually illegal gifts."Were you in the same position, would you have the million bucks or so to carry the process through to your ultimate vindication, knowing that even though many people would be willing to help with the cost, you were legally blocked from accepting that help?

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 01:42 PM (chhYn)

126 It will be interesting to see if this is something she really gets behind or is it a one off editorial?

In fairness, I'm not sure what more she can do short of becoming a candidate and running on it. If she does that, I'll be interested to see how facile she is with the underlying facts and policies involved. It's one thing to write an op-ed when you have control and the ability to edit, it's another to be able to defend and attack when you have a mastery of the details. If she can do that it could get very interesting and would overcome a lot of other questions I have about her.

And yes, I know political leaders at the presidential level can't just be wonks,, they need to have that 'it' factor that Palin has in spades that inspires people. Personally, I like a fair bit of both in people I support.

Posted by: DrewM. at December 10, 2010 01:42 PM (HicGG)

127 Ahoy!

Posted by: Palinisto! at December 10, 2010 01:43 PM (Du9+F)

128 To be truly effective as a leader you need the right message and to be an effective messenger. The message here is constitutional conservatism. Say whatever you want, but NOBODY I've ever seen comes remotely close to dominating a conversation as teh 'Cuda. Liberal heads pull a Scanners at the metion of her name, and I agree with her on all of it.
Let's have the primaries and work it all out, but betting against her is not your best bet going forward.
Just sayin'

Posted by: BIG ROB at December 10, 2010 01:43 PM (dMRn3)

129 Posted by: ace at December 10, 2010 01:28 PM (nj1bB)
Sorry Ace, I should have made myself a little more clear. The lawsuits that were inhibiting her ability to perform her duties weren't solely responsible for her stepping down. But, when added to the needless media scourging of her that Obama never recieved, the illegal hacking of her email, and a few other things that will come to me later, it's indeed no wonder that she felt she couldn't represent the citizens of Alaska. How would any of us been able to perform under such circumstances?
Still, James' comments sound an awful lot like trolling to me, and my patience with trolls is at an all time low.
However, sir, Isee your point and will seek to contain my contempt in the future. Far be it from me to anger the proprietor of the place I hold so dear in my heart.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at December 10, 2010 01:43 PM (b6qrg)

130 21
She quit an executive position as the leader of a State to devote
herself to squabbling with left-wing pundits and starring in her own
reality TV show.

Is that seriously presidential material?

That's a résumé with one executive position and one reality TV show more than what we have now.

Posted by: FireHorse at December 10, 2010 01:15 PM (sWynj)
By November 2012, Obama will have been POTUS longer than Palin was Governor of Alaska.Obama is a terrible president but he has experience, and Palin is going to get hammered for her lack of experience (and quitting) should she run in 2012.

Posted by: robviously at December 10, 2010 01:43 PM (s0hlt)

131 I'd rather see her as the chair of the GOP, although her current position as Tea Party gadfly seems to suit her well.

I think that becoming GOP chair would hurt her "brand", actually. She's Exhibit A for the "conservative, not Republican" aspect of the Tea Party, and she'd be less credible doing that from the RNC.

As far as becoming a TV personality, IMO the path to the oft-cited middle-of-the-road voter is through their TV sets, and in that light Breitbart's mantra that conservatives must engage with popular culture is vital.

Posted by: Ian S. at December 10, 2010 01:43 PM (p05LM)

132 I don't see the Republican establishment really giving someone like Jindal a chance - he's not one of the insiders...


Posted by: 18-1 at December 10, 2010 01:39 PM (7BU4a)
Jindal made it clear in 2008 when he was approached by the insiders that he wants to stay in LA and finish his term. If he were more charismatic, he'd have been a great challenger for Obama in 2012. Maybe he will run, and I would be open to his ideas. He supposedly knows a lot about healthcare as well as energy. But I've not heard any policy suggestions.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 10, 2010 01:44 PM (mHQ7T)

133 Maybe she can't be Reagan, but with this move, she makes a bid at being Goldwater. She is moving ideas into the conversation and paving the way for a politician who is able to build on the ideas but can also forge a coalition between the right and center.

Posted by: Zanzibar Buck-Buck McFate at December 10, 2010 01:44 PM (Hj9yW)

134 And she's not alone on that list. Neither can Newt, neither can Huck. I'm thinking Thune or Pence at this point, but could be persuaded otherwise.
Have you looked at their voting recording during the lame duck session (like the delightufl "Save us from our own food" bill?) They're just pre-surgical trannies with tits.

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 01:44 PM (Ty06w)

135 How is my opposition "reflexive"? I give what I think to be good reasonsjustifications.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:27 PM (Nljcu)

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at December 10, 2010 01:44 PM (Wnhy1)

136 I do, but Palin also had donors lined up to contribute to a legal fund.

They did contribute to her legal defense fund. I contributed the maximum donation allowed to her legal defense fund, and solicited donations for it on this very blog. But you know what? The DemoCrap operatives, coordinated by Obozo COS Pete Rouse, filed frivolous ethics complaints against that and got the money impounded.

Besides, since when is giving up in the face of leftist thuggery a desirable quality in a Republican politician?

Then tell me what YOU would have done if you were in her place, dipshit. And I want specifics. "Stay and fight" is an empty meaningless platitude. Tell me EXACTLY what you would have done in her place, or STFU.

Go help Chris Christie if he ever does such a thing!

And yet the anybody-but-Palin crowd would have no problem with Christie quitting year and a half into his term to run for POTUS, and he's had no prior executive experience. Go figure.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 01:44 PM (ISaDW)

137 Too bad none of the other contenders have any balls.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2010 01:44 PM (o3bYL)

138 Like the chick in the marching band who was a complete dork, buttotally hot and gave great blowjobs.

Posted by: Cluebat from Exodar at December 10, 2010 01:40 PM (BuYeH)
There was this one time, at music camp....

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 01:45 PM (chhYn)

139 How about Palin/Cain?

Posted by: texette at December 10, 2010 01:46 PM (OWL33)

140 Do you have her recently supporting Steele? The media claim of her support of Michael Steele is almost a year old I believe. And I haven't heard of any more recent support of him.
Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 01:41 PM (oVQFe)
That's my understanding as well. She supported Steele before he was shown to be terrible and has recently said that she isn't running for RNC chair.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 10, 2010 01:46 PM (BvBKY)

141 Perhaps only here, in a den of Morons, would there be yet another row about the evils of 'quitting'being grounds for immediate execution, during a year marred by several politicians on both sides who did (and some are STILL doing) their Damndest to wreak havoc upon the peasants who failed to show sufficient reverence.

Unfuckingbelieveable.
Additions to the one and done pile:
Huckabee: shiftless big government type who fucked up paroles. A never-was
Romney: Still cannot explain or bury Romneycare, which has some relevence to this country (but not nearly as much as the lack of tort reform in Alaska) Has-been
Jindal: He couldn't keep oil off the shores of LA, and on balance lost to Obama. And we can expect to see him beat Obama on a national stage? Next.
Santorum: He couldn't defend his PA Senate seat. We expect a guy from a state due to lose seats to win the nation? Out.
Daniels: Called for and ended a 'truce' on 'social' issues, a much admired stance that was in stealth mode yesterday when DADT came for a vote instead of the economy. Never started.
Pence: Dunno. Nice hair.


Gee that was fun. And shallow.

Posted by: Blue Hen at December 10, 2010 01:46 PM (R2fpr)

142 Why the better choices don't endorse Ryan 's roadmap?

It's worth nothing here that even Ryan himself is constantly tinkering with the Roadmap; it's not perfect by any stretch. It has a lot of assumptions, guesstimates, and blue-sky projections that would need to be codified if it were ever to come down to a vote. It's a serious attempt at a long-term fix for our financial problems, but it's not perfect, and there are many reasons why someone might honestly oppose it on the merits.

The key phrase here is "don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good". I want to see Medicare and SS completely abolished and something better put in their place, but I also understand that this is next to impossible, given the state of the American electorate at this point in time. Thus, I'll accept plans that ameliorate the problems in those programs as much as possible.

The problem is that we must compromise on these reforms, but the interest groups -- the elderly, public-employee unions, etc. -- are not willing to negotiate at all because they are still waiting for the deus ex machina to descend from Heaven and magically solve all the problems with no painful adjustments required by anyone. This is nonsensical and self-defeating, but there it is. So any reform effort is going to have to be achieved over the agonized howls of the welfare beneficiaries. It will require politicians with huge appeal and an iron backbone.


Posted by: Monty at December 10, 2010 01:46 PM (4Pleu)

143 If she can do that it could get very interesting and would overcome a lot of other questions I have about her.And
yes, I know political leaders at the presidential level can't just be
wonks,, they need to have that 'it' factor that Palin has in spades that
inspires people. Personally, I like a fair bit of both in people I
support.
That 's fair. That rules out a lot of people at this point. Jindal and Christie are the top two outside of Palin right now. Pence and Ryan will have to prove that they can win elections outside of their districts. Daniel is out given his communication skills. Newt, Huck, Romney have bigger baggages.

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 01:46 PM (R4ub4)

144 If Barry keeps up on his track to oblivion, indies may have no choice but to get behind the Pub, no matter who it is.

Posted by: Luca Brasi at December 10, 2010 01:46 PM (YmPwQ)

145 And yet the anybody-but-Palin crowd would have no
problem with Christie quitting year and a half into his term to run
for POTUS, and he's had no prior executive experience. Go figure.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 01:44 PM (ISaDW)
Shit -- that same crowd seemed A-OK with Palin quitting halfway through her first term as Governor if it meant helping McCain into the Oval Office.

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 01:46 PM (chhYn)

146 Congrats, Ace.
#4 - I have no doubt she'll do that. If you were in her position, would you say that at this point? You could multiply the lefty media hate by 100.
Palin is also a fan of Calvin Coolidge, who, in the 1920 Depression (yeah, there was one) cut taxes AND spending by 50 percent. Welcome,Roaring '20s.
Desperate times call for desperate measures. No matter what you think of Glenn Beck, he's an advocate for going back to funding only those departments stipulated by the Founders. You can also bet of her opening up all the land tied up by the feds and for drilling to commence ASAP.

Posted by: RushBabe at December 10, 2010 01:46 PM (a3Z62)

147 If your big three choices are Romney, Huckabee, or Palin who are you going to vote for?

That's not necessarily the only scenario. What if the choices were Romney, Huckabee, Palin, Pawlenty, Thune, and Jindal? I think there will be a lot of people stepping up to go against a drastically unpopular incumbent. It'll depend on organization and it'll depend on who is the best communicator.

Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 01:49 PM (RD7QR)

148 I love it when the right parrots the left. You would think there would be enough right news sources that publish right or center news that the right wouldn't fall for the left's meme every single time.
Gee, Palin is dumb... like Reagan, Bush, and Eisenhower. She quit her job, yep, because she's a quitter. No other reason. Just quit to quit. In fact, she ran so she could quit later because if you don't win then you can't quit and she loves to quit. That damn quitter. She also is making money. Damn money makers. But she'll quit that too because she's a quitter. Maybe they'll pay her to quit then she can be a quitter and a money maker. But maybe not because she is so dumb.

Posted by: dagny at December 10, 2010 01:49 PM (Je6fj)

149 "Still, James' comments sound an awful lot like trolling to me, and my patience with trolls is at an all time low."

If you simply cannot stand someone disagreeing with you or arguing that you favorite candidate/idol is not the best candidate we can field, then just ignore my comments. Or start you own blog that you can run like Charles Johnson runs his.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:49 PM (Nljcu)

150 You know who this helps?

Posted by: Hugh.Hewitt's.Chicken at December 10, 2010 01:50 PM (gQLr2)

151 Do you have her recently supporting Steele? The media claim of her support of Michael Steele is almost a year old I believe.

Well, she was recently touring with him during the midterms in CA and FL, but I was going by her April endorsements and rumors that she would endorse him for a second term. But to my knowledge she never did.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 10, 2010 01:50 PM (mHQ7T)

152 109, ace I am surprised at you. Dismissed or not, she still had to pay the legal bills and it still swamped the limited resources of the state. Every time she left the state to give a speech, she was hit with a new one.

Also, you mention experience. Please understand that LENGTH OF TIME, EXPERIENCE, and RESULTS ACHIEVED are far different things.

Biden has more experience than any 2012 GOP hopeful. So what? He is experienced at being wrong for decades.

If someone in 2 years is correct on issues and accomplishes more for the GOOD than the guy who has been experienced at being wrong for 30 years, then would you really say the 2 year person is inexperienced? I WOULD NOT, because RESULTS MATTER.

Successful Mayor who took a small town that no one heard of and turned it into a thriving growing suburb.

Successful oil and gas commissioner that exposed corruption and the crony capitalism that has infected the GOP.

Successful Governor that cut spending. Was one of 2 states out of 50 during her tenure to create jobs. Took on the oil companies who were in bed with the politicians and ripping off the people, but did so in a fair way where safety was paramount as was production and jobs.

Call me crazy, but this sounds like a pretty damn good resume to me.

Posted by: Dan at December 10, 2010 01:50 PM (1jzSs)

153 "Jindal: He couldn't keep oil off the shores of LA"

You have got to be kidding me? Who do you think he is? Canute the Great commanding the waves to halt?

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:50 PM (Nljcu)

154 Jindal: He couldn't keep oil off the shores of
LA, and on balance lost to Obama. And we can expect to see him beat
Obama on a national stage? Next.
Posted by: Blue Hen at December 10, 2010 01:46 PM (R2fpr)
Hey, Jindal was toast way before that. Remember his response to Obama's first address to Congress? He proved irrevocably and beyond a shadow of a doubt that he's an idiot -- because he spoke slowly, used small words and told a corny story or two. Apparently it only takes one episode of that sort of poor optics for a politician to be written off permanently by the people who count. Policy, values and clearly articulated positions don't matter.

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 01:51 PM (chhYn)

155 Have you looked at their voting recording during the lame duck session (like the delightufl "Save us from our own food" bill?) They're just pre-surgical trannies with tits.
Oh hell--they're not alone on the food bill. Hill. Die on. No.
What is needed is someone that can lay the math out dispassionately and without baggage to keep the indies paying attention--and do nothing but bludgeon the lefties with it. Anything that distracts from that will result in defeat. She has attributes that distract from that message. She can't win.
And if we're naming names today, please feel free to do so in ways other than negatives, please.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 10, 2010 01:51 PM (B+qrE)

156 Will she be distancing herself from me? You know I love my pork You betcha.

Posted by: M. Bachmann at December 10, 2010 01:51 PM (EL+OC)

157 Open. Ah, better check back tonite after the 2nd Manhatten.

Posted by: gary gulrud at December 10, 2010 01:51 PM (/g2vP)

158 145
And yet the anybody-but-Palin crowd would have no
problem with Christie quitting year and a half into his term to run
for POTUS, and he's had no prior executive experience. Go figure.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 01:44 PM (ISaDW)
Shit
-- that same crowd seemed A-OK with Palin quitting halfway through her
first term as Governor if it meant helping McCain into the Oval Office.


Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 01:46 PM (chhYn)
Because quitting to take a promotion isn't really "quitting."

Posted by: robviously at December 10, 2010 01:51 PM (s0hlt)

159 And yet the anybody-but-Palin crowd would have no problem with Christie
quitting year and a half into his term to run for POTUS, and he's had
no prior executive experience. Go figure.

I would support Christie wholeheartedly if he had the same problems that Palin had and decided to take the fight to the left as she has done so far.

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 01:52 PM (R4ub4)

160 141 Thank you, Blue Hen. I couldn't have done that.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2010 01:52 PM (o3bYL)

161 "Jindal: He couldn't keep oil off the shores of LA"





You have got to be kidding me? Who do you think he is? Canute the Great commanding the waves to halt?

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:50 PM (Nljcu)
Wow -- YOU are taking exception to a shallow and unfair criticism of a politician?

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 01:52 PM (chhYn)

162 "I love it when the right parrots the left."

Me too...like when people line up behind a charaismatic candidate with almost no experience and go apoplectic when anyone points out their lack of said experience.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:53 PM (Nljcu)

163 Is this an alternate universe? Ace warming up to the Artic Fox! You betcha!

Posted by: derised1 at December 10, 2010 01:54 PM (pdq17)

164 While Palin might be un-electable, I have to admire her for bringing issues to the mainstream fore-front, in a way that folks like Ryan could only dream about. The very fact that Palin is endorsing this will force discussion on it. There is currently exactly zero other politicians, public figures, or humans who can match her ability to direct the public discussion, with the possible exception of Obama's teleprompter.

Posted by: Dan in Philly at December 10, 2010 01:54 PM (UpqKo)

165 Because quitting to take a promotion isn't really "quitting."


Posted by: robviously at December 10, 2010 01:51 PM (s0hlt)
Yes -- and the Vice Presidency is such a marvelous promotion over a governorship. The job of Vice President isn't worth a warm bucket of shit, according to the expert opinion of one of its occupants. But hey, it LOOKS important -- and looks are what count.

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 01:54 PM (chhYn)

166 Jindal: He couldn't keep oil off the shores of LA" You have got to be kidding me? Who do you think he is? Canute the Great commanding the waves to halt?
Posted by: James
And here is the reply that you deserve. if you don't like it, take it up with the jerk that wrote this piece of trash.
If you simply cannot stand someone disagreeing with you or arguing that you favorite candidate/idol is not the best candidate we can field, then just ignore my comments. Or start you own blog that you can run like Charles Johnson runs his.
Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:49

Posted by: Blue Hen at December 10, 2010 01:54 PM (R2fpr)

167 Me too...like when people line up behind a charaismatic candidate with
almost no experience and go apoplectic when anyone points out their lack
of said experience.

Unfortunately, it took someone with no experience like Palin to take the fight to the left and initiated these big debates. The smart people are mostly useless then.

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 01:55 PM (R4ub4)

168 Ahhhhh, quitting to take a promotion isn't quitting. Actually, I think maybe quitting isn't quitting when a person you like does it.


Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2010 01:55 PM (o3bYL)

169 I like Palin AND The Tea Party movement in the role of pushing republicans on the tough issues that career politicians balk at because they live or die for votes. Wanting spending cuts, social security reform, and wanting to ban earmarks is all well and good, until a defense plant in your state has to lay off workers, or you realize you aren't getting social security until you are older, or your county isn't getting federal funds for a new whatever.

A lot of us voters are huge hypocrites when it comes to fiscal responsibility. At some point we have to accept the fact that I, nerdygirl, will lose something. I won't get to start collecting social security as soon as I thought I would. And I won't get COLA raises. My relative who is a teacher may have to make concessions because there won't be federal bailout money for teacher unions.

I have been too lazy to read Ryan's roadmap so far, but it won't accomplish anything if it doesn't hit most of us. Palin and The hated Tea Party can take the heat for pushing smaller government and fiscal responsibility until they have beaten the drum long enough that people start buying into it. The liberal media isn't going to push personal responsibility, and repub politicians need to be kicked in the butt a few times to understand that they must do the right thing, even if it is unpopular.

Posted by: nerdygirl at December 10, 2010 01:55 PM (oTMDk)

170 I understand perception is important in politics. Actually, it is all that matters as people vote on their perceptions. Sarah Palin is more than capable of changing enough peoples minds.

Bottom line, whoever runs against Obama in 2012 needs to take away 5% of the people who voted for him nationally which will manifest itself much larger in the swing states.

Does anyone think it is IMPOSSIBLE for Obama to lose 5% of the pop vote in 2012 that he got in 2008. I don't and it becomes more likely every week.

Posted by: Dan at December 10, 2010 01:55 PM (1jzSs)

171 Further, Palin and her supporters are fond of noting that every single one of the ethics charges against her were dismissed... do they not see the undermining of their claims here? If each ethics charge was being properly dismissed, why the great, pressing need to resign?


Posted by: ace at December 10, 2010 01:38 PM (nj1bB)


It doesn't matter if they were dismissed, she still had to spend her own money to defend herself and she was half a million dollars in debt when she stepped down. And she and her staff were spending all their time dealing with this crap instead of running the state.


But I will admit it's entirely her own fault for doing an extraordinarily shitty job of explaining why she was resigning, which allowed the "QUITTAH!" meme to grow legs.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 01:55 PM (ISaDW)

172 >>>"Still, James' comments sound an awful lot like trolling to me, and my patience with trolls is at an all time low."

Yeah, Palin's supporters are alas one of her biggest drawbacks.

Guys, people are allowed to disagree with you. People are not "trolling" because they don't like Palin. In case you didn't notice, about 40-45% of Republicans don't like her very much (or at least don't want her for President).

This is bizarre, the cocoon you've built for yourself in which you think Palin's popularity is unanimous or approaching 90%. IT. IS. NOT. Accept this reality and stop with this nonsense.

Posted by: ace at December 10, 2010 01:55 PM (nj1bB)

173 It's a Friday. I remember the last time I slightly criticized Palin, I don't have the energy today. As I said last time, would I vote for Sarah? Sure if she's the nominee. She's not my instant favorite though. How about Ryan himself?I'd love to see him run. An ecomomic pit bull is exactly what we need. Don't know much about Pence or Thune, but will keep an open mind on him. As for Mrs. Palin, endorsing Ryan's roadmap is hardly risky at all. Her favorables aren't real high with indepenents anyway so I don't see it as a risky move but a wise one.

Posted by: Bruce The Robert at December 10, 2010 01:56 PM (hqar6)

174 Since then, she's written 2 books as well as
multipleop-ed pieces etc. She's a master of FB and Twitter. The
reality TV show is a way to show who she is while controlling the bias.
To me, in today's media and image age, she's brilliant.

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 01:22 PM (Ty06w)
Rove was hailed as "the Architect" for setting up email GOTV efforts, which Obama used in 2008, but not McCain. Palin has a grasp of new media that is vital to Republican election chances going forward. She definitely beats the MFM at their own game, too, though I still see her only appealing to the base at this time. It's still more than any other GOP candidates so far.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 10, 2010 01:56 PM (mHQ7T)

175 151 Do you have her recently supporting Steele? The media claim of her support of Michael Steele is almost a year old I believe.Well, she was recently touring with him during the midterms in CA and FL, but I was going by her April endorsements and rumors that she would endorse him for a second term. But to my knowledge she never did.
Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 10, 2010 01:50 PM (mHQ7T)
Yeah I don't take either of those as endorsements of him. If its not after the election I don't accept it as support.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 01:56 PM (oVQFe)

176 by the way the cocoon occurs precisely because of these henny-penny freak-outs over any derogatory statemetn about Palin, to the point where people just aren't comfortable saying anything bad about her.

But don't mistake that crowd-shouting-enforced silence for endorsement. People just get tired of being attacked for this.

Posted by: ace at December 10, 2010 01:56 PM (nj1bB)

177 I'd like to second Blue Hen's call for open-mindedness re candidates for '12. I obviously have my favorite clearly in mind, but I like Pence and Ryan too. I Sarah falters but one of those guys catches fire, I'll still be a happy con. Now, I think it unlikely those two guys can a acquire the name recognition they'll need between now and the 12 elections, but I sure could be wrong--again, time and the primaries will resolve all that.

Oh, and...I don't think you'll ever catch a Palin supporter arguing that some other cons "shouldn't run." That's bull. Most of us don't care for Mitt's candidacy a little bit, for example, but I've never seen a palinbot call on Mitt not to run.

Posted by: Palinbot #2,503,588 at December 10, 2010 01:57 PM (BZEkR)

178 I like them move by Palin, but I still don't believe she can win. She was divisive before she took on Paul Ryans devisive roadmap To me, it seems like she paring the pie of winnable independents even further down. I don't see how that strategy wins elections.

I'd rather her be like Rush, someone who keeps the conservative establishment in check and shames those who betray conservative values. This will keep her around as a national presence much longer than if were to lose to Obama.

Posted by: taylork at December 10, 2010 01:57 PM (4yrb2)

179 Romney: Still cannot explain or bury Romneycare,


He fought against it for years and vetoed it a dozen times, yet it somehow still bears his name. I guess I should congratulate Huck and McCain for one messaging attempt that actually worked.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 10, 2010 01:58 PM (MiG8u)

180 How about Ryan himself?I'd love to see him run.
I like Ryan, but given his "experience", he is simply not presidential yet! He hasn't won any election outside of his district yet.

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 01:59 PM (R4ub4)

181 169
I like Palin AND The Tea Party movement in the role of pushing
republicans on the tough issues that career politicians balk at because
they live or die for votes.

Then you don't like me then.

Posted by: M. Bachmann at December 10, 2010 01:59 PM (EL+OC)

182
Be open to Pence or Daniels.

Give Huckabee and Romney the chance to explain why this time they can triumph.

And then we decide and support that person as best we can.

Posted by: Blue Hen at December 10, 2010 01:25 PM (R2fpr)
I'm not remotely open to Daniels, Huckabee or Romney. No truces, populism or Obamacare. Maybe Pence.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 10, 2010 01:59 PM (mHQ7T)

183 Guys, people are allowed to disagree with you. People are not "trolling" because they don't like Palin. In case you didn't notice, about 40-45% of Republicans don't like her very much (or at least don't want her for President). This is bizarre, the cocoon you've built for yourself in which you think Palin's popularity is unanimous or approaching 90%. IT. IS. NOT. Accept this reality and stop with this nonsense.
Posted by: ace

1.Yes, they are, and I don't recall anyone saying otherwise.
2. Personally, I haven't said that she's my number one choice for 2012.
3. Upthread I did extract from my nether regions memes that can and may very well be used against any of the others that are being discussed. If no one thinks that the MFM ad the left won't do this and more, they're are the ones cocooned.

Posted by: Blue Hen at December 10, 2010 02:00 PM (R2fpr)

184 Also on Palin, I imagine someone already has linked to Jon Stewart's bit on Obama's complaining about people not supporting him.

Palin has shown that she can take constant and unfair battering. She just takes it and hits back. She is a fighter.

Even many on the left, who thought His Awesomeness was such a great leader, are starting to realize that he is thin-skinned and thinks he is entitled to slobbering support.

Posted by: nerdygirl at December 10, 2010 02:00 PM (oTMDk)

185 Obama is a terrible president but
he has experience, and Palin is going to get hammered for her lack of
experience (and quitting) should she run in 2012.


Posted by: robviously at December 10, 2010 01:43 PM (s0hlt)
You are confusing experience with seniority. Obama will have been in office for almost four years by Nov. 2012, but he will have accomplished very little, and what little he's accomplished will have all been destructive.It's like asking about the surgeons in a hospital: do you want the one who's done more surgeries, or the one with the lower mortality rate for the same types of surgery? Seniority or competence?

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 02:00 PM (chhYn)

186 "Yeah, Palin's supporters are alas one of her biggest drawbacks."

Exactly. I would be much more open to Palin if it wasn't for her supporters throwing a fit all the time over the slightest criticism of her.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 02:00 PM (Nljcu)

187 162The very fact that Palin is endorsing this will force discussion on it.
There is currently exactly zero other politicians, public figures, or
humans who can match her ability to direct the public discussion, with
the possible exception of Obama's teleprompter.

Right Dan. She may well end up talking publicly about the Ryan plan more than he does. Sarah is going to be questioned about the Ryan plan the next time she is interviewed, so she'd better be boned up on it (I'm confident she is; she does her homework).

Posted by: Palinbot #2,503,588 at December 10, 2010 02:01 PM (BZEkR)

188 Gee that was fun. And shallow.
Wanna hear my shallow?I don't see the world as civilized. It's still pretty barbaric.Many of theleaders of other countries are just one day out from a good rape and pillage. They have killed their rivals, starved their subjects, have monarchies, harems, kill bears, race cars, shoot, fight, strangle living things with their bare hands.
We're fighting to keep our spot as top dog and not become bottom bitch. So, in room full of guys that look like a Capital One extras, I do not want our current crop of weak GOP Hairclub for Men guys talking to them about their last golf game.I want someone who will at least get their attention and they know she can use a gun and field dress them if they piss her off.That simple. (yes, this was partially TIC but I am so weary of the current batch of weak sissies)

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 02:01 PM (Ty06w)

189 172, she has the highest favorability ratings among republicans, so I have no idea how that equals republicans not liking her very much. People are concerned she cannot beat Obama. That will change. She is already essentially tied with him in a few reputable polls.

Your reference to republicans not wanting her as president are similar to other gop hopefuls. Many do not want Romney etc. Also there are many who would love her to be president but are AFRAID that she would not beat Obama. Once a primary occurs and the first poll in Ohio shows her beating Obama, that will change quickly.

Posted by: Dan at December 10, 2010 02:02 PM (1jzSs)

190 Exactly. I would be much more open to Palin if it wasn't for her
supporters throwing a fit all the time over the slightest criticism of
her.

This is simply another excuse in my opinion. How many times have you Palin 's supporters brought up the "educational screw up" by Christie for example.


Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 02:03 PM (R4ub4)

191 Here comes another Palin thread to quickly gobble hits and get quickly to 200 million

Ace, you magnificent bastard!

Posted by: Palin Hit Whores at December 10, 2010 02:04 PM (vdfwz)

192 What experience do all the other candidates thinking about running have that Sarah does not? Hmmmm, I look at her 20 yrs as a political leader and see great accomplishments. The others not so much....

Palin/West 2012! Liberal heads will explode!!!


Posted by: PalinRepublican at December 10, 2010 02:04 PM (TDhJr)

193 Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:49 PM (Nljcu)
Reasonable, sound points based in facts are the best types of arguments and arethe ones that make me think about my positions. I find nothing wrongwith healthy disagreements, we have them often here.Sensible debate refines my political thinking and this is where I find it.
I find yours lacking.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at December 10, 2010 02:04 PM (b6qrg)

194 Damn, I wish the people who make such a point of Palin's resigning the Governorship would take the time to actually research the subject, instead of regurgitating talking points--this includes you, Ace, There's no disrespect intended or meant here, simply a desire for you to get some knowledge. It bothered me, too, until I discovered exactly WHY. Smart move, overall.

I'd bet we're going to be waiting for a hella long time before any of the potential candidates man up and start countering the left so incisively. Doesn't say too much for their testicular fortitude, imho.

Meanwhile, the suggestion is that y'all just watch her act in the best interests of this country--you cannot deny she does just that.

Posted by: irongrampa at December 10, 2010 02:04 PM (ud5dN)

195 179
Romney: Still cannot explain or bury Romneycare,

He fought
against it for years and vetoed it a dozen times, yet it somehow still
bears his name. I guess I should congratulate Huck and McCain for one
messaging attempt that actually worked.
------------
If he's so against it, why is that whenever I see him on TV he's talking about how great it is and how well it works.

Posted by: Anachronda at December 10, 2010 02:04 PM (6fER6)

196 172 >>>"Still, James' comments sound an awful lot like trolling to me, and my patience with trolls is at an all time low." Yeah, Palin's supporters are alas one of her biggest drawbacks. Guys, people are allowed to disagree with you. People are not "trolling" because they don't like Palin. In case you didn't notice, about 40-45% of Republicans don't like her very much (or at least don't want her for President). This is bizarre, the cocoon you've built for yourself in which you think Palin's popularity is unanimous or approaching 90%. IT. IS. NOT. Accept this reality and stop with this nonsense.
Posted by: ace at December 10, 2010 01:55 PM (nj1bB)
Ace you're right. Not liking Palin is not grounds for trolling. Repeating the lefty talking point that Palin quit for no reason than to do reality television, etc. is a different story. If you're view is that the perception that she quit for no reason is going to be damaging to her I don't have an issu with that. But there is a difference between those things. One is recognizing how it will be perceived, the other is buying into the perception. The fact that James actually believed Palin could fight the ethics charges with money from donors shows that he is nothing but a clueless twit on this issue.
Tough shit James you're being a troll.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 02:05 PM (oVQFe)

197 "This is simply another excuse in my opinion."

Sure, and its also unfair to judge a candidate by the tenor of their supporters, but it still has an effect.

One of the reasons I came to loathe Obama in 2008 wasn't because of him, but because of the robots who took to the internet on his behalf.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 02:05 PM (Nljcu)

198 Yeah, Palin's supporters are alas one of her biggest drawbacks. There are also levels of support. She's so mercilessly attacked that some of us (I'm in this camp) get our hackles up everytime somebody critiques that she has a hair out of place. She gets so much unfair crap, that I think the bar should be relatively high before piling on.
I also don't think she's running (I probably won't support her if she does, and living in Iowa that means something. However, I would pay a lot of attention to her endorsement.) so whatever she's doing makes me smile and doesn't make me worried about 2012.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 10, 2010 02:05 PM (BvBKY)

199 Ace, welcome home, prodigal son.

Go, kill the fatted hobo.

Posted by: NICKIE GOOMBA at December 10, 2010 02:05 PM (H4Kxb)

200
And she's not alone on that list. Neither can
Newt, neither can Huck. I'm thinking Thune or Pence at this point, but
could be persuaded otherwise.

And your Veep is Rubio unless the sun goes supernova on us.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 10, 2010 01:42 PM (B+qrE)
I'm thinking it will be Thune/Rubio, but still waiting.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 10, 2010 02:06 PM (mHQ7T)

201 The bottom line is that we are going to have a primary. If you don't like Palin, then vote against her. That 's the point of the primary. If you don't want Palin to win the primary, then the incessant attack against her (btw, these are just minor "excuse"), would have the opposite effect. I am personally turned off by the shallow attacks against Palin. I am even open to a Christie run even if he seems to hold many positions I am personally unconfortable with.

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 02:06 PM (R4ub4)

202 The thing about quitting is that it definitely hurt her chances at future public office. But it also definitely helped the reform that she ran on--because Alaskan Democrats no longer oppose the governor simply because the governor once ran against Obama’s VP candidate.

What had been a reasonably bipartisan effort to reform Alaska’s politics—reform Republicans working with some Democrats against Oil Republicans (and presumably Oil Democrats, but you don’t hear much about them).

But after 2008, it was reform Republicans against both the Corrupt Bastards Club and all Democrats, simply because of Palin accepting the VP slot in 2008.

I’ve said this before, but it bears repeating: a trivia question, what parties were the President, Minority Leader, and Majority Leader in Alaska after the reform wave hit Alaska?

Republican, Republican, and Republican.

When Palin and the reformers took office, there were enough reform Republicans to elect a reform president and majority leader in the senate. So the Oil Republicans joined with the Democrats in a power-sharing scheme; at first both top slots were held by Republicans, but they’ve been trading off. In July 2009 when I last looked at it, the President of the Senate and the Minority Leader were both Republicans, for example, and the Majority Leader was a Democrat.

After 2008, it was a modern Solomon story; Democratic and Republican partisans were willing to damage Alaska in order to damage Sarah Palin. Palin said she wasn’t willing to save her own career if it meant Alaska had to suffer. I don’t know how well it worked; it takes a few years for reform to filter through. We certainly saw what looked and looks like corruption in this year’s national election there.

I realize that quitting hurt her chances for higher office; I also realize she knew it when she made the choice. I’ve got a whole lot of respect for that.

Posted by: Jerry at December 10, 2010 02:07 PM (QF8uk)

203 Thune is out given his voting record! Rubio is too new.

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 02:07 PM (R4ub4)

204 Santorum....Smart guy. Even the PA liberals I talk to admitted that he's a smart guy, albeit through gritted teeth. The fact that he even got a PA senate seat when he did was impressive, and he lost it at a bad time for the GOP. It's interesting to speculate on him as Palin's VP -- he would act as the gravitas for the ticket.

Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 02:07 PM (RD7QR)

205 Out: Opposing Palin
In: Open to Palin
Thank you Ace for setting a standard by which to judge your support for a candidate, and then following through with that support. So often, we're reactive in our pursuit of... whatever. Your integrity is refreshing!

Posted by: Truman North at December 10, 2010 02:07 PM (G5JPI)

206 That's not necessarily the only scenario. What if the choices were Romney, Huckabee, Palin, Pawlenty, Thune, and Jindal?

There will be more then Romney, Huckster, and Palin running I am sure. And in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Palin doesn't even run out of the gate.

Based on prior experience, I think Romney and Huckabee will get the Republican establishment behind them early. I see the real conservative vote getting split and diluted, and therefore the dubious duo winning the first few primaries and Palin only entering at that point.

Keep in mind the question isn't just who is on the ballot, but who is on the ballot and as any chance of winning. It is the electability argument but for the primaries.

As an aside, I am still amazed Romney was the most conservative of the big three candidates last time around.

Posted by: 18-1 at December 10, 2010 02:07 PM (7BU4a)

207 "The fact that James actually believed Palin could fight the ethics charges with money from donors shows that he is nothing but a clueless twit on this issue."

Explain to me why she could not.

Also explain to me how we are to stop the lawfare strategy in the future if we don't stand up to it now.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 02:07 PM (Nljcu)

208 she has the highest favorability ratings among republicans, so I have no idea how that equals republicans not liking her very much. People are concerned she cannot beat Obama. That will change. She is already essentially tied with him in a few reputable polls. Your reference to republicans not wanting her as president are similar to other gop hopefuls. Many do not want Romney etc. Also there are many who would love her to be president but are AFRAID that she would not beat Obama. Once a primary occurs and the first poll in Ohio shows her beating Obama, that will change quickly.
Posted by: Dan

I've derided much of the criticisms directed toward Palin because I find them to range from being tangential to downright asinine.
Having said that, I'd caution you against saying "things will change", or that things "will change quickly". They very well may. But they may not, and her candidacy may sputter out, leaving room for another. Right now her prospects are mixed, but she has some attractive attributes (keep it clean people). That's it at the moment.

Posted by: Blue Hen at December 10, 2010 02:07 PM (R2fpr)

209 Hmmm, stay in my job and bankrupt myself, and cost my state millions... or step aside, remove myself as a target, and wala!!! The frivolous lawsuits disappear....

If I die, I die... Sarah Palin.

Posted by: PalinRepublican at December 10, 2010 02:07 PM (TDhJr)

210 Ace, for me, it's not the criticism. It's the TYPE of criticism. Really, flighty? Flighty?

Posted by: texette at December 10, 2010 02:07 PM (OWL33)

211 I find it odd that people complain about Palin's supporters defending her passionately.

Having worked in campaigns in multiple states doing groundwork, here is a news flash for you.

HAVING PASSIONATE ENERGIZED SUPPORTERS IS WHAT EVERY CANDIDATE FOR EVERY OFFICE WANTS!

Furthermore, in order to beat Obama we better damn well have a passionate group of supporters to do the groundwork.

Acting like her supporters are a drawback is beyond silly.

Posted by: Dan at December 10, 2010 02:08 PM (1jzSs)

212 Exactly. I would be much more open to Palin if it wasn't for her
supporters throwing a fit all the time over the slightest criticism of
her.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 02:00 PM (Nljcu)
I note that you're #3 on this thread, falling all over yourself in a hurry to toss out the tired, dishonest and patently unfair "she quit to become a reality TV star" meme.Knee-jerk attacks often draw knee-jerk defenses.

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 02:09 PM (chhYn)

213 Also explain to me how we are to stop the lawfare strategy in the future if we don't stand up to it now.

One way to do it is to leave the state to her capable successor and take the fight to them nationally. She has been successful at that. That 's why they are reduced to complaining about her "quitting" her job. Not that she didn't fight back!

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 02:09 PM (R4ub4)

214 184 Also on Palin, I imagine someone already has linked to Jon Stewart's bit on Obama's complaining about people not supporting him. Palin has shown that she can take constant and unfair battering. She just takes it and hits back. She is a fighter. Even many on the left, who thought His Awesomeness was such a great leader, are starting to realize that he is thin-skinned and thinks he is entitled to slobbering support.
I have yet to see anyone who could take the degree of personal abuse she has Howlong do you think Thune, Romney, Huckabee etc would stay in the running if they, their spouses and kids had half said and done to them that the Palins have?
Really? Seriously...they aren't strong enough to take what she's taken. They're weak and cowardly (which is why they've all protected their political interests and private parts).
Show me their character and courage and I'll vote for them.

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 02:10 PM (Ty06w)

215 BTW, if internet enthusiasm is a measure of support, then Ron Paul (RON PAUL!!!) would be president now.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 10, 2010 02:10 PM (BvBKY)

216 Shit -- that same crowd seemed A-OK with Palin quitting halfway through her first term as Governor if it meant helping McCain into the Oval Office.
Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 01:46 PM (chhYn)

That's a good point.

Believe it or not, I actually think agreeing to run for VP is the worst decision she ever made. It was a complete waste of her time and opened the door to every bad thing that's happened to her since. She was surrounded by incompetent parasites who sabotaged her at every turn. I'm convinced that Nicole Wallace was a Dem mole put in place to sabotage the campaign. What kind of a fucking idiot would send somebody who was new to the national scene to a hostile 6-hour inquisition by one of the most biased hacks in the MFM, and allow it to be selectively edited to show Palin in the worst light possible? That interview should have been limited to an hour max and there should have been a contractual agreement in place that it would be aired unedited.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 02:10 PM (ISaDW)

217 "...whenever I see him on TV he's talking about how great it is and how well it works."


When was that? He consistently explains (though not in Tweets) what happened in MA, how the system was designed to work, why he vetoed it so many times, how it's a States Rights issue, etc.

Anyway, whether or not you like his attempts to kill Mass Health Care, his career is a whole hell of a lot more than that. He's spent decades creating real jobs with his own money, skills and smarts. I'm used to the Palinistas, etc. deriding him as a Mutt or calling him an establishment tool (despite the fact that the establishment destroyed him in 200, but I'm hoping some will take a bit of a wider view come primary season.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 10, 2010 02:11 PM (MiG8u)

218 Acting like her supporters are a drawback is beyond silly.
Put yourself and our shoes and you will see why you are so well liked.

Posted by: garrett at December 10, 2010 02:11 PM (Du9+F)

219 207 "The fact that James actually believed Palin could fight the ethics charges with money from donors shows that he is nothing but a clueless twit on this issue." Explain to me why she could not. Also explain to me how we are to stop the lawfare strategy in the future if we don't stand up to it now.
Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 02:07 PM (Nljcu)
Read comments above dipshit. The fact that you think this hasn't been answered is pathetic. You really are a troll.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 02:11 PM (oVQFe)

220 "One way to do it is to leave the state to her capable successor and take the fight to them nationally. "

That's not an answer. What if her successor starts getting the same shit? And so on?

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 02:11 PM (Nljcu)

221 148 LOL

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 10, 2010 02:11 PM (mHQ7T)

222 "The fact that James actually believed Palin could
fight the ethics charges with money from donors shows that he is nothing
but a clueless twit on this issue."





Explain to me why she could not.





Also explain to me how we are to stop the lawfare strategy in the future if we don't stand up to it now.

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 02:07 PM (Nljcu)
She could not because a court ordered that she was not permitted to.The lawfare strategy in Palin's case was based on the unique quirks of Alaskan law.Why do you offer such staunch opinions on a subject about which you are entirely ignorant?

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 02:12 PM (chhYn)

223 I am not trying to be snarky, but what is so bold or leaderly about endorsing someone else's intellectual brainchild, particularly after such a long delay?


I still don't see how this move alleviates concerns about the adequacy of her experience for POTUS. I guess you are seeing it as a trade-off, but after seeing how disastrous it is to have someone in office who was elected based on ideas instead of accomplishments, I'd prefer someone with more seasoning and accomplishments.

Posted by: Y-not at December 10, 2010 02:12 PM (IDL9N)

224 Exactly. I would be much more open to Palin if it wasn't for her supporters throwing a fit all the time over the slightest criticism of her.
Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 02:00 PM (Nljcu)
I'm sure.

Posted by: Naive Nellie at December 10, 2010 02:12 PM (a3Z62)

225 Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 02:10 PM (ISaDW)


HTML tag closure fail.


Does anybody know how to get the Pixy-comment-editor-thingy to show up using Safari? I'm a Mac noob.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 02:12 PM (ISaDW)

226 Put yourself and our shoes and you will see why you are so well liked.
That 's a good point. Many anti-Palin folks seem to come across that way.

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 02:13 PM (R4ub4)

227 Palin supporters are too zealous? Sweet Jesus. Forest. Trees. Clues everywhere.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2010 02:13 PM (o3bYL)

228 I'm sure.

Definitely, I think many are turned off by the anti-Palin folks on our side.

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 02:13 PM (R4ub4)

229 208, I hear ya, but remember 18 months ago we were told, even by some on our own side that Obama was guaranteed a second term. We were told Reagan conservatism was dead and would never return.

I commented here, as did many others that this was wrong and things would change.

Well, they have changed haven't they? 63 seats in the House say so.

Obviously, I am giving my opinion based on facts and my life experience. I think I am going to be right this time too.

Posted by: Dan at December 10, 2010 02:13 PM (1jzSs)

230 I have yet to see anyone who could take the degree of personal abuse she has Howlong do you think Thune, Romney, Huckabee etc would stay in the running if they, their spouses and kids had half said and done to them that the Palins have?
Romney has put up with some anti-Mormon crap. You can criticize other aspects of his character, but I think he's willing to put up with a lot and with relative grace. Huck does strike me as thin-skinned.

Posted by: AmishDude at December 10, 2010 02:14 PM (BvBKY)

231 Anyway, whether or not you like his attempts to kill Mass Health Care, his career is a whole hell of a lot more than that. He's spent decades creating real jobs with his own money, skills and smarts. I'm used to the Palinistas, etc. deriding him as a Mutt or calling him an establishment tool (despite the fact that the establishment destroyed him in 200, but I'm hoping some will take a bit of a wider view come primary season.
Posted by: Lincolntf

I agree. One line memes are often trite at best, and misleading at worst. That's why when I listed them, I stated that they were shallow. This is our time to be open to all of them, and make them demonstrate what they can do.

Posted by: Blue Hen at December 10, 2010 02:14 PM (R2fpr)

232

Am I the only one here who finds John Thune to be a little scary? Scary in a "I don't want to work for him because I don't know how he'd react if I screwed up". He seems sever to me.

Posted by: Serious Cat at December 10, 2010 02:14 PM (PFbty)

233 Ace:

1) Sarah Palin is scary!

2) Zombie Gerald Ford ... for the WIN!

Posted by: mrp at December 10, 2010 02:14 PM (HjPtV)

234 Obviously, I am giving my opinion based on facts and my life experience. I think I am going to be right this time too.
Posted by: Dan

I'm starting to see those odds as well. I'm merely advising temperence.

Posted by: Blue Hen at December 10, 2010 02:15 PM (R2fpr)

235 Ahhhh, here's where that Republican Civil War meme is gonna start.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at December 10, 2010 02:15 PM (fLHQe)

236 Ace,

Have you been asleep for the last year or so? Palin has been putting out bold ideas left and right since she before she resigned her position. From death Panels, to Qe2, to agreeing with Demint over this latest "tax bill". This is the second or third time she has mentioned Paul Ryan's roadmap. Do you think her endorsement of COD was not "bold" or Joe Miller was not "bold" or Niki haley?. Do you think her embrace of the Tea party was not bold when the GOP/Media/Dems were calling them a fringe racist group?
Go all the way back to the resignation itself. Do you think it was not "bold" to resign her poisiton? Say what you will about the ramifications of that decision but no one can say it was not "bold". Hell go back even further. Do you think it was not "bold" to take on exxon oil in a state where exxon had bought and paid for tthe state polssince the first well was drilled?
Palin supporters have known what you are just now finding out (since she decided to be "bold" with your pet project) that Palin has been "bold" since her first day in government 20 years ago.
Why do you think her supporters defend her? Because she is timid? I'm glad you are starting to see the real gov Palin instead of the media created Palin. Hopefully you won't go back to sleep.

Posted by: unseen at December 10, 2010 02:16 PM (LVvCy)

237 223 I am not trying to be snarky, but what is so bold or leaderly about endorsing someone else's intellectual brainchild, particularly after such a long delay? I still don't see how this move alleviates concerns about the adequacy of her experience for POTUS. I guess you are seeing it as a trade-off, but after seeing how disastrous it is to have someone in office who was elected based on ideas instead of accomplishments, I'd prefer someone with more seasoning and accomplishments.
Posted by: Y-not at December 10, 2010 02:12 PM (IDL9N)
I'm sure ace would too. But if you say "I would really like to see Person A do X" if they go and do X wouldn't it be on you to admit that they have done what you would like them to do. Its just admitting they've taken a step you wanted them to take.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 02:16 PM (oVQFe)

238 What has Palin done to change the laws that 'made her resign'?

If it were such an odious law and life changing issue wouldn't you think Palin would be all over it as an Alaskan? As someone said she's put the same effort into changing those laws as OJ did searching for Nicole's killers.

Posted by: Roc Ingersol at December 10, 2010 02:16 PM (HFFiP)

239 That's not an answer. What if her successor starts getting the same shit? And so on?

Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 02:11 PM (Nljcu)


Her successor isn't getting the same shit because he's not a threat to anybody nationally. When she left, the bullshit stopped. There hasn't been a single ethics complaint filed against him and no FOIA's that I'm aware of.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 02:16 PM (ISaDW)

240 HTML tag closure fail.



Does anybody know how to get the Pixy-comment-editor-thingy to show up using Safari? I'm a Mac noob.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 02:12 PM (ISaDW)

I'm not sure it's possible. I love most Apple products but Safari sucks in weird ways. Try Chrome or Opera.

Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 02:17 PM (RD7QR)

241 215, internet enthusiasm is not responsible for almost 3 million GOING ROGUE sales.

Or drawing 11,000 on a weekday to a rally for Michelle Bachmann.

or drawing 8,000 on super bowl sunday to a railly with Rick Perry.

Or..you get the idea

Enthusiasm is always good for a candidate.

Posted by: Dan at December 10, 2010 02:17 PM (1jzSs)

242 Why do you offer such staunch opinions on a subject about which you are entirely ignorant?
Posted by: stuiec
Because I am being a reasonable, calculating ,debating machine you syphilitic piece of dog crap!!!!!!!!

Posted by: I am James' spleen at December 10, 2010 02:17 PM (R2fpr)

243 ACE!

Your journey to Sarah begins with baby steps.

Posted by: tsj017 at December 10, 2010 02:18 PM (4YUWF)

244
Yeah I don't take either of those as endorsements of him. If its not after the election I don't accept it as support.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 01:56 PM (oVQFe)
I saw it is Palin preferring Steele as RNC chair and reminding him later that she's been a strong ally. It looks to me like Palin is running and wants the RNC's support during the primaries.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 10, 2010 02:19 PM (mHQ7T)

245 "Anyway, whether or not you like his attempts to kill Mass Health Care, his career is a whole hell of a lot more than that. He's spent decades creating real jobs with his own money, skills and smarts. I'm used to the Palinistas, etc. deriding him as a Mutt or calling him an establishment tool (despite the fact that the establishment destroyed him in 200, but I'm hoping some will take a bit of a wider view come primary season.
Posted by: Lincolntf at December 10, 2010 02:11 PM (MiG8u)"
Sorry dude, the guy is on record saying he approves of mandates. Considering how "big [of a] fucking deal" the healthcare boondoggle is, it's not like it can be dismissed as "just one teency weency little issue". Until he retracts his approval of the most odoius aspects of Obamacare (mandates) he's a non starter.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at December 10, 2010 02:19 PM (fLHQe)

246 Palin comes out against QE2 in National Review:

http://tinyurl.com/2dcdoun

Palin against state bailouts:

http://tinyurl.com/25m488q

Palin on The Way Forward after the midterms in National Review:

http://tinyurl.com/26lwj5w

Palin's Letter to Incoming Republican Freshman:

http://tinyurl.com/22uelu8


Posted by: hrh at December 10, 2010 02:20 PM (62LhM)

247 Here are some people to hate.

Posted by: garrett at December 10, 2010 02:20 PM (Du9+F)

248 217
"...whenever I see him on TV he's talking about how great it is and how
well it works."


When was that? He consistently explains
(though not in Tweets) what happened in MA, how the system was designed
to work, why he vetoed it so many times, how it's a States Rights issue,
etc.
------
Yes, he talks about how it's a States Rights issue, etc., but then he goes on to talk about how well it's working. Example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cahvl8V317g

"I think our plan is working well and the best thing I can say about it is that it's saving lives."

Posted by: Anachronda at December 10, 2010 02:20 PM (6fER6)

249 The Tao which is clear is not the real Tao. The Sarah which is uncontroversial is not the real Sarah.

Posted by: Lao joncelli© at December 10, 2010 02:20 PM (RD7QR)

250 For those who are saying Palin is about as popular as Obama, I have a serious questions:
Is that because Palin is becoming more popular or because Obama is becoming less popular.

Followup:, assuming that the number of dem voting=the number of repubs voting in 2012. Can Palin win 50+% of the independent vote? Does this number go up or down now that she's endorsed the Ryan plan?

Posted by: taylork at December 10, 2010 02:21 PM (4yrb2)

251 Palin's Letter to Incoming Republican Freshman:
I find this funny.

Posted by: garrett at December 10, 2010 02:21 PM (Du9+F)

252 because she almost certainly won't do that.

So the fact that she had earlier expressed admiration of Ryan and has never shown the slightest inclination to follow the rules of the political corporate culture was something that made no impression on you? Most politicians come up through the system, they are the men and women in grey suits. Palin is a political entrepreneur, a Silicon Valley pirate. As Silicon Valley started with the traitorous seven, so the new politcal age starts with the traitorous one. No wonder the big shots don't like her.

Posted by: chuck at December 10, 2010 02:21 PM (2naRv)

253 203 Thune is out given his voting record! Rubio is too new.

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 02:07 PM (R4ub4)


Thune supported Sleeza MurCokeWhore. Fuck Thune.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 02:21 PM (ISaDW)

254 The path I'd like her to take is to endorse the winner of 2012, run for
Alaska's Senate seat in 2014, and then after one or 2 terms as a senator
run for president.

What would that 10-year marination accomplish?

We all know there is no perfect candidate and sorry to say, but there is no perfect timing right now. We're facing a god-awful emergency and leaders who may seem unripe are just going to have to be picked.

Posted by: arhooley, conflicted Californian at December 10, 2010 02:22 PM (Uv3Gr)

255 puh--leeze she's got more baggage than louis vuitton--who needs that in an easy win prez election against obumbler--she"d make a great sec of the interior in a pawlenty administration--he being the best contrast candidate to the one as a competant two term governor and a conservative working class hero to boot

Posted by: HULUGU at December 10, 2010 02:22 PM (71vmn)

256 you know Palin "quit" another six figure job, her oil gas ethics commissioner job before she became governor? She resigned to protest corruption when the sitting Republican governor wouldn't investigate the state party chair for sharing confidential state documents with an oil lobbyist. She quit because by law as a commissioner she couldn't go public with her concerns because of confidentiality rules. So she quit to be able to blow the whistle on collusion knowing it would probably kill any chance she had to succeed in state politics as a Republican. And you know what happened to that state party chair? He was later given the largest ethics fine in Alaska history, largely because Palin had the courage to put pressure on the governor's office and the Republican party. And what happened to Palin? She became Governor of Alaska.
Now let's look at her situation as governor.
Palin was paid roughly 337,500 in 32 months as governor. After 19 bogus ethics charges against her, she owed around 500,000 in legal fees to her attorney. The current laws of Alaska required that every single filed ethics complaint to be investigated no matter how ridiculous (being photographed with a fish, wearing a jacket with a logo, receiving "cookie" bribes) and all at the personal cost of the defendant. Had she stayed in office another 16 months, she likely would have been forced into bankruptcy because Alaska law does not automatically cover the legal defense of its governors nor was the Attorney General of the state or someone else designated by the state to defend her like all other states. If you were working in a job that was costing you almost twice as much to go into work everyday than you were making would you stay there?
Even her set up of a legal defense fund like other politicians have was deemed unethical (It was arguably the strictest legal defense fund in history with all the restrictions it had for those who could donate) wherein a politically motivated investigator suggested Palin should just let Alaska taxpayers pay for her legal defense. They wanted Alaskans to take the bullet for the political malice of Palin's enemies.. In less than a year, she racked up half-a-million (to put this in perspective, her salary as Governor was only 125,000 a year and she had even declined a 25,000 raise by the legislature) in legal charges with much more to come.
One can argue that she should have just fought her enemies instead of letting them win.
If you decide to continue fighting your enemies at the expense of the people you serve is that even ethical? If your presence in office is causing heavy collateral damage to your state, is it smart and ethical to remain in office no matter the cost? Has any politician at the state level attracted the volume of attacks directed at Palin? Is it normal for a governor to go personally bankrupt defending themselves against bogus ethics complaints? Palin incurred almost twice as much legal debt as the salary she drew as governor. Every day she spent in office she was one day closer to personal bankruptcy.These frivolous lawsuits effectively paralyzed her administration by wasting time and money doing research for countless Freedom of Information Act requests and addressing the ethics charges. The estimated cost of wasted time for the State of Alaska was 2 million and rising. By resigning she effectively took the circus out of Alaska

Posted by: thethinman at December 10, 2010 02:23 PM (W3XUk)

257 If it were such an odious law and life changing issue wouldn't you think
Palin would be all over it as an Alaskan? As someone said she's put the
same effort into changing those laws as OJ did searching for Nicole's
killers.

Yes, they are reforming the laws that lead to those frivolous lawsuits. But you don't hear much about for obvious reasons. Her capable successor is doing a good job in Alaska. She is free to take the fight to Obama and the left without impacting the welfare of her state! If you want to justify your opposition to Palin, then it is your choice.

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 02:23 PM (R4ub4)

258 Honestly, I usually stay silent on Palin threads. Everyone has their opinion and it does not bother me.
What I do find bothersome is attacks on Palin supporters. We should be reviled because we admire this woman? Because we are sick of hearing constant attacks from both sides against her?
We hear it from the media and we hear it from the GOP elite. So when we hear it here, of course we're going to get our hackles raised. I don't go in for personal attacks or even thinking that what others might say is invalid. I might think it's wrong, but that's only my opinion.
I am not a "rabid" Palin fan. I do not think she is "Saint Sarah." In fact, I'm waiting to see what happens down the road before I make any sort of judgement as to who tugs on the Presidential strings. I think she's a great personality coupled with a sensible mind. I'd love to vote for her.
By the by, I do not understand why people think being a Senator is any qualification for the Presidency. In my own opinion, anyone coming out of Congress is more likely to be a corrupted hack out for their own interests, rather than for the interests of the people. Anyone can become President - there is no rule stating that only a true blue politician is qualified. Or did I miss something in the Constitution?

Posted by: soulpile is... expendable at December 10, 2010 02:23 PM (gH+Hj)

259 So one of the things to consider is who will be running in the primaries.

If your big three choices are Romney, Huckabee, or Palin who are you going to vote for?

Unfortunately, we don't get to pick a perfect candidate, and if we look at the three factor for every one - electability, post-election competence, and commitment to conservatism who is the best choice - again out of those who will have a serious shot on the primaries?

Oh, and do keep in mind that McCain basically ran 100% on electability... and lost.

As I've said before, if the Republican establishment doesn't want Palin as our nominee they better be coalescing around a real conservative now - because otherwise the race will be hers if she wants it.

Posted by: 18-1 at December 10, 2010 01:33 PM

Exactly.

I see plenty of people who like to focus on repeating the mantra that "Sarah Palin is not Presidential". Compared to whom? Based on what standards?

I never see people talk about anyone else as "is/is not Presidential".

Instead of just talking about Sarah Palin in a vacuum, talk about her in terms of the 2012 GOP Primaries.

Is Mike Huckabee "Presidential"? Why or why not?
Is Mitt Romney "Presidential"? Why or why not?
Is Mitch Daniels "Presidential"? Why or why not?
Is Paul Ryan "Presidential"? Why or why not?
Is Jim DeMint "Presidential"? Why or why not?

People keep moving the goalposts with regards to Palin, but never even set them up with regards to any other Republican.

First the issue is "electability". After people pushed McCain as the electable one last year, I'm tired of this completely unmeasurable "standard". And no, "polls" tell us nothing. McCain was polling at 6% and his campaign was toast early on and then he ends up the nominee in the end. "Polls" are worthless.

Then the issue is "executive experience". Well, then that eliminates Ryan and DeMint and leaves us with Huckabee, Romney and Daniels.

The next issue is bona fide conservate policies. How do Huckabee-Romney-Daniels-Palin compare?

The next issue is articulation of those conservative policies. How do Huckabee-Romney-Daniels-Palin compare?

The next issue is standing up for those conservative policies and fighting against the lies, smears, hate and vitriol of the Left (Obama, Democrats, MF-ing media). How do Huckabee-Romney-Daniels-Palin compare?

This is how the debate about Palin should be had. Instead of dicussing her in a vacuum, compare/contrast her with other prospective candidates.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 10, 2010 02:23 PM (NITzp)

260 I'd just like the criticisms to not be copied from the left.

Posted by: dagny at December 10, 2010 02:23 PM (Je6fj)

261 240
I'm not sure it's possible. I love most Apple products but Safari sucks
in weird ways. Try Chrome or Opera.
-------
The editor thingie doesn't show up in Opera, either. Can't speak for Chrome.

Posted by: Anachronda at December 10, 2010 02:23 PM (6fER6)

262 Posted by: HULUGU at December 10, 2010 02:22 PM (71vmn)

I like T-Paw but I'm forced to admit that he's as interesting as two-day-old hot dish. Maybe if Sarah campaigned for him...

Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 02:24 PM (RD7QR)

263 Come to the light, ace. Move towards the light.................


Posted by: SantaRosaStan at December 10, 2010 02:24 PM (UqKQV)

264 Palin Does The One Thing She Could Have Done To Get Me On Board With Her Candidacy

I have to question this. I believe that there a number of 'things' that Palin could have done that would induce our Ace to 'get on board'.

But then the next episode of the Alaska show would feature a road trip ewok hunt by Todd and son.

Posted by: I am James' spleen at December 10, 2010 02:24 PM (R2fpr)

265 I'm not sure it's possible. I love most Apple products but Safari sucks in weird ways. Try Chrome or Opera.
Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 02:17 PM (RD7QR)


Thanks, I'll give it a try.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 02:24 PM (ISaDW)

266 I don't care if Ryan is presidential, he's cute.
How's that?

Posted by: dagny at December 10, 2010 02:24 PM (Je6fj)

267 Pawlenty is a maximal beta-male.

Posted by: texette at December 10, 2010 02:25 PM (OWL33)

268 Bush was the victim of such lawsuits for 8 years...still is. But he didn't quit. You guys can make excuses for her all you want, but the BIG thing in this election is experience...and Palin gave it up.
Posted by: James at December 10, 2010 01:24 PM (Nljcu)
I don't think you're right about Bush being sued for 8 years. For one thing there is a federal law against suing a sitting president.

Posted by: robtr at December 10, 2010 02:25 PM (hVDig)

269 Here are some people to hate.Posted by: garrett at December 10, 2010 02:20 PM (Du9+F)
Hummus is deadly serious business.
Lebanon escalate hummus war with Israel
Lebanon has escalated the stakes in a Levantine battle for culinary glory when its chefs concocted a 22,000-lb dish of hummus to snatch back a world record claimed by Israel four months ago.

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 02:25 PM (chhYn)

270 #245 Sorry dude, the guy is on record saying he approves of mandates.
Considering how "big [of a] fucking deal" the healthcare boondoggle is,
it's not like it can be dismissed as "just one teency weency little
issue". Until he retracts his approval of the most odoius aspects of
Obamacare (mandates) he's a non starter.

Even if he retracts his former support for mandates tomorrow, I still wouldn't trust him. If he needs to "learn" now, with all the experience he has, the elegantly simple principles of limited government, doesn't that mean there isn't much hope for him?

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at December 10, 2010 02:26 PM (9hSKh)

271 What I do find bothersome is attacks on Palin supporters. We should be
reviled because we admire this woman? Because we are sick of hearing
constant attacks from both sides against her?
I think this comes with the territory. You will get criticized when you have to make a choice among various candidates, esp a prominent one like Palin. Just that the anti-Palin folks sometimes forget to look in the mirror.

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 02:26 PM (R4ub4)

272 Thune is out given his voting record! Rubio is too new.



Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 02:07 PM (R4ub4)
I'm one of those evil moderate pragmatists, so I'm still open to Thune. Voting 95.3% of the time with his Republican colleagues is acceptable.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 10, 2010 02:26 PM (mHQ7T)

273 Whoever the nominee, I would also take into consideration who they would surround themseves with in reference to advisors and other positions of importance they will appoint when in office. Look at who Obama surrounds himself with and then imagine Palin's picks.
That just makes me smile.

Posted by: Bosk at December 10, 2010 02:26 PM (pUO5u)

274 259- Sarah's supporters have already done the comparison and Sarah wins, hands down!!!

Sarah Palin 2012!

Posted by: PalinRepublican at December 10, 2010 02:27 PM (TDhJr)

275 261
240
I'm not sure it's possible. I love most Apple products but Safari sucks
in weird ways. Try Chrome or Opera.-------The editor thingie doesn't show up in Opera, either. Can't speak for Chrome.
---

Try Firefox. It works great there on a Mac.

Posted by: Y-not at December 10, 2010 02:27 PM (IDL9N)

276 The editor thingie doesn't show up in Opera, either. Can't speak for Chrome.

Posted by: Anachronda at December 10, 2010 02:23 PM (6fER6)

Try FireFox or one of the obscure Mac browsers like OmniWeb or Shiira.

Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 02:27 PM (RD7QR)

277 260 I'd just like the criticisms to not be copied from the left.
It's a bloodycircular firing squad. (or that really cool gun kata I saw in Ultraviolet). Either way--- hate her for conservative facts, not liberal emotional lies.

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 02:27 PM (Ty06w)

278 I think this comes with the territory. You will get criticized when you
have to make a choice among various candidates, esp a prominent one like
Palin. Just that the anti-Palin folks sometimes forget to look in the
mirror.

I think both sides dish it out just as much. I've been called some names for not being 100% on the Sarah band wagon.

Posted by: taylork at December 10, 2010 02:28 PM (4yrb2)

279 266 I don't care if Ryan is presidential, he's cute.
How's that?
Superficial, but alas, the majority of the voting public (approximately 52% and more) base their vote primarily on superficial issues. You definitely don't, Dagny, but the Peggy Smiths of the voting booth sure as hell do.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at December 10, 2010 02:28 PM (9hSKh)

280 Michael Moore Checks Into Florida Weight-Loss Camp

Posted by: Barney Frank at December 10, 2010 02:28 PM (tE8FB)

281 258 +1

Posted by: Dr. Varno at December 10, 2010 02:28 PM (QMtmy)

282 "I think our plan is working well and the best thing I can say about it is that it's saving lives."

Medicare, Medicaid and virtually every health insurance plan in the world are "saving lives". If that's the best he's willing to say about it, then that's hardly a ringing endorsement.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 10, 2010 02:28 PM (MiG8u)

283 165
Because quitting to take a promotion isn't really "quitting."


Posted by: robviously at December 10, 2010 01:51 PM (s0hlt)
Yes
-- and the Vice Presidency is such a marvelous promotion over a
governorship. The job of Vice President isn't worth a warm bucket of
shit, according to the expert opinion of one of its occupants. But hey,
it LOOKS important -- and looks are what count.


Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 01:54 PM (chhYn)
How many people can name the current Vice President? And how many people can name the current governor of Alaska?That's why it's a promotion. Not to mention the whole "first in line to be the next President" thing.

Posted by: robviously at December 10, 2010 02:29 PM (Dxb1S)

284 I like T-Paw but I'm forced to admit that he's as interesting as two-day-old hot dish. Maybe if Sarah campaigned for him...
Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 02:24 PM (RD7QR)

T-Paw will have to refudiate his past global-warming zealotry and his support for increasing the ethanol mandate to 15% for gas sold in MN. We call him "Governor Green" for a reason. I'm also not a big fan of the public funding for the Twins stadium that he flip-flopped on and rammed through, or his support for the light rail boondoggle here in MN, or the smoking ban in bars.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 02:29 PM (ISaDW)

285 I like T-Paw but I'm forced to admit that he's as interesting as two-day-old hot dish. Maybe if Sarah campaigned for him...
Posted by: joncelli©

Ah, irony. That's funny right there.

Posted by: Blue Hen at December 10, 2010 02:29 PM (R2fpr)

286 I think both sides dish it out just as much. I've been called some names for not being 100% on the Sarah band wagon.

Posted by: taylork at December 10, 2010 02:28 PM

Yup.

I, for one, don't appreciate being told that I am getting all of my talking points from the Left.

Posted by: Y-not at December 10, 2010 02:29 PM (IDL9N)

287 Example: let's say it comes down to Romney or Palin. I'd take Palin in a heartbeat over Romney, purely because Romney would be a dead man in the general due to his MassCare initiative (which he's never managed to explain or defend adequately). Against Tim Pawlenty? Tim's my guy. Against Newt? Palin, no contest. Newt is a dick. Against Jindal (presuming he runs)? Jindal in a heartbeat.

Posted by: Monty at December 10, 2010 01:35 PM

What? Tim 'Big government, Global Warming' Pawlenty is your guy? He's basically John McCain only a former Governor. How is that better than Palin?

Anyone who supports 'man-caused global warming' is eliminated for me. Period. No further 'second looks'. Add to it that he is for big government ("The era of small government is over . . . government has to be more proactive, more aggressive." --- Tim Pawlenty, 2006.) and the teachers unions and I see him as the *worst* possible GOP candidate.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 10, 2010 02:30 PM (NITzp)

288 282
"I think our plan is working well and the best thing I can say about it
is that it's saving lives."

Medicare, Medicaid and virtually
every health insurance plan in the world are "saving lives". If that's
the best he's willing to say about it, then that's hardly a ringing
endorsement.
--------
Sure, but you skipped right over "I think our plan is working well".

Posted by: Anachronda at December 10, 2010 02:30 PM (6fER6)

289 On Experience:
Remember, she was Mayor before she was Governor. Also that Oil committee thing I can never remember the name of because only Alaska has one... She's _got_ executive experience. And she has it "where the rubber meets the road." Add that to her ever increasing policy chops, and I think we've got ourselves a contender. It's not like she burst out fully formed and suddenly became Governor of the State of Alaska. She had experience winning elections before that, too.

And, no, she didn't mangle her speech when she resigned: its just that no one believed what she said. She said, from the beginning, that the issue was she was unable to fulfill her duties as Governor- for reasons that were well known then, and better known now, and that she would be stepping down to allow her Lt. Governor to continue her policies. It wasn't hard to understand, it wasn't mangled. The issue is that the media (who basically hate her guts) decided to run with this idea that she had some "hidden agenda," and everyone bought it.
Posted by: Lincolntf at December 10, 2010 01:58 PM (MiG8u)


No, it wasn't McCain and Huckabee's messaging that got it appended to him like a skin-graft. It was (is) his support of it afterwords. I have never, not even once, heard him say anything along the lines of "I don't like it. I didn't like it then. But, after vetoing similar legislation multiple times, I figured out it would pass with me or without me. When I found a version I could live with, I signed that one." That's never what he says.

He says things like "I think it's the best solution for MA. I don't think the Federal Government has any business in it {something he only added later, btw -AG}, but it works for us."

And then he pretends to be gobsmacked- gobsmacked, I tell you- that when Democrats got their hands on it in full control mode they made the price tag balloon (though you can only believe that if you believe in static analysis), and that all the evils which were inherent in any Government Run health scheme were all caused by Democrat mismanagement.

So, either he needs to fully defend it (which will prevent him from ever getting the nod) or he needs to truly distance himself from it (which, at this late date probably won't really help anyway).

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at December 10, 2010 02:30 PM (8y9MW)

290 "If he needs to "learn" now, with all the experience he has, the elegantly simple principles of limited government,"


After his vetoes were overridden, what was the "limited government" option open to him?

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 10, 2010 02:30 PM (MiG8u)

291 Yes
-- and the Vice Presidency is such a marvelous promotion over a
governorship. The job of Vice President isn't worth a warm bucket of
shit, according to the expert opinion of one of its occupants. But hey,
it LOOKS important -- and looks are what count.

Say that to my face.

Posted by: Dick Cheney's Warcock at December 10, 2010 02:30 PM (IDL9N)

292 267 Pawlenty is a maximal beta-male.
Exactly---We need an Alpha (even a Gamma) but the beta-zeta crap has got to go.

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 02:30 PM (Ty06w)

293 272
Thune is out given his voting record! Rubio is too new.



Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 02:07 PM (R4ub4)
I'm
one of those evil moderate pragmatists, so I'm still open to Thune.
Voting 95.3% of the time with his Republican colleagues is acceptable.


Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 10, 2010 02:26 PM (mHQ7T)
Crazy talk! What about the other 4.7% of the time?!1?!?!

Posted by: robviously at December 10, 2010 02:31 PM (Dxb1S)

294 I'm not gonna read thru all the comments beforehand.

Ewok suggestion,

Would you like to club my fish.

Posted by: Dave at December 10, 2010 02:31 PM (2LwW2)

295 258...THIS!
I am not a "fanboy" or a "hater". Just an interested commenter who likes Sarah but is willing to wait and see what happens before committiing to anything.

By the by...On Obama's re-election chances....does anyone see him flipping any "red states" in 2012? 'casue I have a feeling that he's gonna flip some "blue states" back to red, no matter who the Pub nominee is.

Posted by: Luca Brasi at December 10, 2010 02:32 PM (YmPwQ)

296 Thune supported Sleeza MurCokeWhore. Fuck Thune.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 02:21 PM (ISaDW)
Say! Didn't I see you at the Democrat Caucus meeting yesterday?

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 02:32 PM (chhYn)

297 It's a bloodycircular firing squad. (or that really cool gun kata I
saw in Ultraviolet). Either way--- hate her for conservative facts,
not liberal emotional lies.

Fact: That she quit being gov for good reason is irrelevant. Uninformed, squish moderates will be bombarded by the MFM saying that she's a quitter who would rather make money than serve the public. Sadly, these are the people she needs to win over. It's going to be very hard to overcome this, no matter how many tweets, or FB posts she gives.

Posted by: taylork at December 10, 2010 02:32 PM (4yrb2)

298 OT: Woo hoo, Nancy Lugosi passes the DREAM act in the House.

Posted by: George Orwell at December 10, 2010 02:33 PM (AZGON)

299 Whoever the nominee, I would also take into consideration who they would surround themseves with in reference to advisors and other positions of importance they will appoint when in office. Look at who Obama surrounds himself with and then imagine Palin's picks.

That's why I'd like to see Sarah pull another Sarah and secure commitments to her team before she announces. Can you imagine pulling the rug out from everyone by announcing Palin/West, or at least some key cabinet members?

Posted by: arhooley, conflicted Californian at December 10, 2010 02:33 PM (Uv3Gr)

300 I'm one of those evil moderate pragmatists, so I'm still open to Thune.
Voting 95.3% of the time with his Republican colleagues is acceptable.

Well he just loves earmarks (especially ethanol), which is a common practice in any case. He supported pragmatic "earmarkers" like Bennet and Murkowski. Other that that, he doesn't do anything else too controversial.

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 02:34 PM (R4ub4)

301 Tattoo, I want a movement leader. Thune has never demonstrated any sort of leadership qualities. I honestly believe he's thinking his looks will win him a vp spot.

Posted by: texette at December 10, 2010 02:34 PM (OWL33)

302 251
Palin's Letter to Incoming Republican Freshman:



I find this funny.



Hilarious.

Posted by: M. Bachmann at December 10, 2010 02:34 PM (EL+OC)

303 Ideal scenario - Palin as kingmaker. I don't think she can win - too many Republicans have bought into lefty Menes about her. It's idiotic, of course - she'd be as effective as anyone given the right team - but irrational elitism has affected both sides of the aisle.

So let her "stun" the establishment/"it's his turn" picks and endorse someone like Pence (my vibe on him is that he'll be the best choice, if not orgasmic) and Rubio or Jindal as veep and hopefully we'll only be disappointed with them occasionally.


Posted by: JB at December 10, 2010 02:35 PM (RD9s+)

304 289
On Experience:Remember, she was Mayor before she was Governor. Also
that Oil committee thing I can never remember the name of because only
Alaska has one... She's _got_ executive experience.

The Oil Gas Commission was a three-person committee, consisting of two technical people and one lay person. Palin was chair, which is what you'd expect (you'd want the lay person charged with representing the interests of the citizens) given the composition of the committee. I'm sure she developed her expertise on energy issues during that time, but I would not consider that executive experience, nor would I consider it to be a significant qualification for POTUS.

Being mayor of a town is executive experience, however, there is a huge jump going from mayoring a small town where people are relatively homogeneous, particularly in terms of shared interests and agendas, and running something on the national or international level.

One of my concerns is that although she showed promise as a person who could bring together people from outside the political machine, when push comes to shove, she doesn't actually deliver. If she resigned the Commission in protest, that kind of adds to the idea that when she hits an impasse, she walks away from the battle.

Posted by: Dick Cheney's Warcock at December 10, 2010 02:35 PM (IDL9N)

305 Whole lotta navel gazing going on to get Ace to begin tocome around. Remember Ronnie's 11th commandment.

Posted by: Ohio Dan at December 10, 2010 02:35 PM (GNhXz)

306 Palin could win if it was a fair fight. But as long as the leftist media continues to destroy her it will be tough to overcome her baggage.
I know allpossible GOP candidates willface media bias, but with Sarah itrises to obscene levels.
For charlie and katie to treatPalin as they did, while simultaneously neverasking Oanythign but a fawning gushinglimp wristed questions is enraging.


Posted by: California Red at December 10, 2010 02:35 PM (smPb6)

307 Santorum/Bolton. Bolton/Santorum. With Dick Cheney's Mighty Warcock as campaign manager. The mayhem would be spectacular.

Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 02:36 PM (RD7QR)

308 Dick Cheney's Warcock -- sock off

Posted by: Y-not at December 10, 2010 02:36 PM (IDL9N)

309 It's going to be very hard to overcome this, no matter how many tweets, or FB posts she gives.
How would you recommend overcoming this?

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 02:37 PM (Ty06w)

310 If Palin runs in 2012, it will be not for the win, but to raise the bar and make any other primary hopefuls actually work for it and answer the tough questions. I see Palin vetting candidates in debates since the RNC and the MFM won't.

Posted by: mpur in Texas (kicking Mexico's ass since 1836) at December 10, 2010 02:37 PM (QV82F)

311 I'm still not gonna read thru all the comments beforehand.

Quitting the governorship was folding a losing hand. That's just smart play. Flipping a severely financially costly Left driven mess around into a very well paid publicity generating gig was brilliant. The question I have left is did she get the lesson re: unintended consequences.

Posted by: Dave at December 10, 2010 02:37 PM (2LwW2)

312 120The 2 most important things a president does are 1. Inspire the nation (make us proud to be Americans and of America)2. Pick the right team members (No president does this job on their own)

Point well taken (although I would put Protect the Nation from foreign threats as job #1).

When I was a younger voter, I was looking for the smartest guy or gal to run. Reagan and Clinton cured me of that. Reagan was not a policy wonk guy at all--his strength was the big picture and communicating that picture to the peeps. Reagan was a very successful President.
Clinton on the other hand came to the Presidency as a policy wonk, before succumbing to horn-doggery. He was not a particularly successful President.

Posted by: Palinbot #2,503,588 at December 10, 2010 02:37 PM (BZEkR)

313 No balls at all
No balls at all
The other contenders have
No balls at all....

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2010 02:37 PM (o3bYL)

314 I only ask one thing: Someone keep Mike Huckabee far, far away from any GOP primary.

Posted by: George Orwell at December 10, 2010 02:37 PM (AZGON)

315 Say that to my face.


Posted by: Dick Cheney's Warcock at December 10, 2010 02:30 PM (IDL9N)
Yeah, well, your Vice Presidency actually helped get Obama elected -- but not in the way most people think it did.Most Vice Presidents are just seat-warmers who get rolled out to go to state funerals overseas. But George W. Bush actually relied on you for guidance and advice and gave you real work to do.So when people worried that Barack Obama would be underqualified for the job of President, he picked good ol' Joe Biden to be his VP. He and Joe both assured the voters that Biden would be as active an advisor, mentor and co-worker for Obama as you were to W. So the voters felt okay about electing the new young guy.Had you been as ineffective as most VPs, Obama wouldn't have been able to sell the electorate on Biden as his Obi-Wan Kenobi.IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!! DAMN YOU, DICK CHENEY!!!!11!

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 02:37 PM (chhYn)

316 I'd just like the criticisms to not be copied from the left.
This needs a "this."
Endorsing Ryan's shit is the first thing she's done that I find objectionable from the right, because Ryan's is a plan to balance the books on a government that's even bigger than today's, which already exceeds the bounds of constitutional and financial reasonableness by an insane amount.
I've never understood any conservative's support for it. Because it answers a lefty criticism of Republicans, by being "smart?" That's how libertarians became the de facto lefties we know them as today—by answering leftism with accountancy, not with principle.
Fuckin' rubes.

Posted by: oblig. at December 10, 2010 02:37 PM (x7Ao8)

317 oh, how can i forget to add this:
i hate todd palin

Posted by: navycopjoe at December 10, 2010 02:37 PM (S9k9+)

318 After his vetoes were overridden, what was the "limited government" option open to him?

Mitt wasn't rending his garments over the Healthcare bill. He brought it up as his signature accomplishment as governor of MA during 2008.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 10, 2010 02:38 PM (TpXEI)

319

ROMNEY IS A COMMIE!

Posted by: Ed Anger at December 10, 2010 02:38 PM (7+pP9)

320 I think both sides dish it out just as much. I've been called some names for not being 100% on the Sarah band wagon.
Sure, that always happen. But I think the frivilous attacks occurs more often on the anti-Palin side. And that prompts the reaction usually. That 's all. Now we can argue that the primary is the place for strong criticism. Then, that 's fine. We will apply the Palin standard to all our candidates to be safe.

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 02:38 PM (R4ub4)

321 I only ask one thing: Someone keep Mike Huckabee far, far away from any GOP primary.

Posted by: George Orwell at December 10, 2010 02:37 PM (AZGON)
Huckabee is very likely a lock to win Iowa, just because that's how the Iowa caucus-goers roll. It doesn't mean anything outside Iowa, though.

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 02:39 PM (chhYn)

322 Palin before Santorum, I'm down with that.

Posted by: Virginia Bob at December 10, 2010 02:40 PM (xh3gA)

323 i hate todd palin

Posted by: navycopjoe at December 10, 2010 02:37 PM (S9k9+)
"Hate," or "wish with every fiber of my being I was"?

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 02:40 PM (chhYn)

324 How would you recommend overcoming this?

I doubt she can. If I did, I'd apply for a job come primary season. When it comes to politics she was in a lose/lose situation. She wasn't able to do her job in Alaska and she'd get criticized for it. But if she quits with good cause, she'll still get hammered as being a quitter by the MFM. This is why I think she's better off being the next Rush Limbaugh.

Posted by: taylork at December 10, 2010 02:40 PM (4yrb2)

325 It would be nice to get SC in the number one primary position. It would probably be a much better indicator of who the final candidate would be.

Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 02:40 PM (RD7QR)

326 254 The path I'd like her to take is to endorse the winner of 2012, run for Alaska's Senate seat in 2014, and then after one or 2 terms as a senator run for president.What would that 10-year marination accomplish? We all know there is no perfect candidate and sorry to say, but there is no perfect timing right now. We're facing a god-awful emergency and leaders who may seem unripe are just going to have to be picked.
Posted by: arhooley, conflicted Californian at December 10, 2010 02:22 PM (Uv3Gr)
I think Former Governor and Senator carries a lot more weight. It should also put to bed any reasonable questions of her experience. In terms of actual realistic reasoning I think that were she to be a Senator it will give her an inside knowledge of how Washington works. Knowledge of the system would help her to be a more successful president I think.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 02:40 PM (oVQFe)

327
Mitt wasn't rending his garments over the Healthcare bill.


I believe his point, then as now, was that instead of a massive Federal bureaucracy taking charge of 300 million American's health care, each State should deal with the shortfalls of Medicare, Medicaid, etc.on their own.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 10, 2010 02:41 PM (MiG8u)

328 Huckabee is very likely a lock to win Iowa, just because that's how the
Iowa caucus-goers roll. It doesn't mean anything outside Iowa, though.

Iowans are tying their best to make themselves irrelevant.

Posted by: taylork at December 10, 2010 02:42 PM (4yrb2)

329 I would gladly tip you Thursday for a new post, today.

Posted by: J. Wellington Wimpy at December 10, 2010 02:43 PM (Du9+F)

330 A different take could be that she's trying to get Ryan enough national spotlight to consider running. She has stated that she has a couple people in mind, and that if they ran she would not, well it seems one of them is Paul Ryan.

It strikes me as similar to when Seward, a firebrand abolitionist who was too polarizing to win a national election so he did the next best thing, he endorsed Abraham Lincoln, a congressman who was well known for his standing on the biggest issue of the day (as Ryan has on Obamacare). And no, I'm not saying Paul Ryan is Abe Lincoln.

Posted by: Carl Paulus at December 10, 2010 02:43 PM (QL+Es)

331 This is why I think she's better off being the next Rush Limbaugh. Then who should be the next President?

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 02:43 PM (Ty06w)

332 SARAH PALIN


you can slime my salmon anytime

Posted by: Sexually Deviant Ewok at December 10, 2010 02:44 PM (ISaDW)

333 James, you magnificent pussy, will you marry me and have my children?


Posted by: emo-dweeb beta male, lonely and lost at December 10, 2010 02:44 PM (UqKQV)

334 Ryan's charts show continued deficits and growing debt out to 2063. Not acceptable. Not even close.

Posted by: John Galt at December 10, 2010 02:44 PM (NLWij)

335 Then who should be the next President?

ME! Wait, I'm only 29. Still, I'd be better than Obama.

Posted by: taylork at December 10, 2010 02:45 PM (4yrb2)

336 " 2012 election will be about experience "

LOL. The 2012 election will be about finding a REAL reset button.

Posted by: cackfinger at December 10, 2010 02:45 PM (TUBcJ)

337 Then who should be the next President?

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 02:43 PM (Ty06w)
Paul Ryanor Chris Christie if he loses twenty poundsor Mike Pence if he loses part of his ego

Posted by: SantaRosaStan at December 10, 2010 02:46 PM (UqKQV)

338 When it comes to politics she was in a lose/lose situation. She wasn't
able to do her job in Alaska and she'd get criticized for it. But if she
quits with good cause, she'll still get hammered as being a quitter by
the MFM.
Any Rep candidate will be attacked by the MFM. That 's a given. But we don't need to help them. Christie is a big fat bully with one trick pulled too many times. He screwed up on the education funding. But I will gladly defend him. He made uncomfortable statements on ground zero mosque and immigration, but I don't think it is worth a civil war over them because of the fight his taking to the left in NJ.

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 02:46 PM (R4ub4)

339 What has Palin done to change the laws that 'made her resign'? If it were such an odious law and life changing issue wouldn't you think Palin would be all over it as an Alaskan? As someone said she's put the same effort into changing those laws as OJ did searching for Nicole's killers.
Posted by: Roc Ingersol at December 10, 2010 02:16 PM (HFFiP)

the new rules go in effect on Dec 22, 2010.

Posted by: unseen at December 10, 2010 02:46 PM (LVvCy)

340 Huckabee is very likely a lock to win Iowa, just because that's how the Iowa caucus-goers roll. It doesn't mean anything outside Iowa, though.

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 02:39 PM (chhYn)


Palin's problem in Iowa will be her unwillingness to pander on ethanol subsidies.

Posted by: Sexually Deviant Ewok at December 10, 2010 02:46 PM (ISaDW)

341 That's President Palin to you.

Posted by: Cherry π at December 10, 2010 02:47 PM (+sBB4)

342 #340 fuckin' sock

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 02:47 PM (ISaDW)

343 #312 When I was a younger voter, I was looking for the smartest guy or gal to
run. Reagan and Clinton cured me of that. Reagan was not a policy
wonk guy at all--his strength was the big picture and communicating that
picture to the peeps.

True, but one shouldn't still understate Reagan on his wonkish skills - he was more of a policy wonk than most people these days appreciate. A brief glance of "Reagan In His Own Hand" would dispell any myths that Reagan simply flitted through the Presidency solely based on his near-perfect communication skills.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at December 10, 2010 02:47 PM (9hSKh)

344 Any Rep candidate will be attacked by the MFM. That 's a given. But we don't need to help them
That is my hot button. Everyone has faults, but we you feed the other side's dragon, that's just wrong.

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 02:48 PM (Ty06w)

345 WASHINGTON (Reuters) – Facing a battle over a tax-cut package that has prompted a backlash within his own party, President Barack Obama on Friday is turning to one of his predecessors, Bill Clinton, for advice.
Obama's meeting with the former president underscored parallels between the political challenges facedby Clintonin 1994 and those confronting Obama now.
Gibbs said that Obama requested the meeting, which will be held in the Oval Office at 3 p.m. EST.

I wonder if Slick Willie will ask Barry to get coffee for him?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 10, 2010 02:48 PM (1Jaio)

346 O/T, but Sanders is now talking about how traveling by train is taking longer than it did 80 years ago. I'm sure we should make this a priority, instead of extending tax cuts...

Posted by: ChuckOH at December 10, 2010 02:48 PM (PI7V8)

347 Palin's problem in Iowa will be her unwillingness to pander on ethanol subsidies.

So all future Presidents must be pro-corn?

Posted by: Cherry π at December 10, 2010 02:49 PM (+sBB4)

348 the new rules go in effect on Dec 22, 2010.
Yes, she took the fight on both fronts. Hey, but that would distract from the "quitting" meme. Why bother to help fight the left on this charge?

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 02:49 PM (R4ub4)

349 I'm still, still not gonna read thru all the comments beforehand.

?Presidential material? GTFO, that test is gone.

?Eliminate TLA yadda yadda yadda department? When has that ever happened. They've all got 100% constituencies vs. everybody else and 1-20% oppose. We ought to be shooting for freeze in place and let the country grow out around them til they are right sized.


Posted by: Dave at December 10, 2010 02:49 PM (2LwW2)

350 If Palin's Death or Glory Suicide Run at the Presidency looked something like this (photoshop needed): Lady Liberty, I'd follow her straight to Hell.

Posted by: Sharkman at December 10, 2010 02:49 PM (sqNU7)

351 Tattoo, I want a movement leader. Thune has never
demonstrated any sort of leadership qualities. I honestly believe he's
thinking his looks will win him a vp spot.

Posted by: texette at December 10, 2010 02:34 PM (OWL33)
Reagan was about the only movement leader I could support, because of his optimism, grace, experience and communication skills. How does Sarah Palin measure up? She can be a thin-skinned, though I don't begrudge her defending her family. She has taken enormous guff from the MFM. But she is part of that media now, and I think she needs a better communications person than Rebecca Mansour. I understand Palin's most ardent supporters appreciate that she is unpolished as a candidate, but sometimes she is inarticulate when she needs to be on. I've seen little improvement there. Sometimes Palin can be petty and vindictive, as well. The Murkowski fight/ Miller endorsement and the midterms in general reflected poorly on Palin,, though tea party types will call this opinion heresy.

Posted by: Tattoo De Plane at December 10, 2010 02:49 PM (mHQ7T)

352 330 A different take could be that she's trying to get Ryan enough national spotlight to consider running.

This is an interesting take. Sarah seems to view here role as being the woman who pushes people into doing the right thing; think of her as the wife who brings out the best in a talented but shy actor, for example. Or, perhaps better as the momma eagle who shoves the chick out of the nest when it's time to learn how to fly.

Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 02:49 PM (RD7QR)

353 I believe his point, then as now, was that instead of a massive Federal
bureaucracy taking charge of 300 million American's health care, each
State should deal with the shortfalls of Medicare, Medicaid, etc.on
their own.

That wasn't his point at all. He was running on a platform that MA healthcare proved he was the dynamo which his supporters claimed.

Remember that in 2008 he was running against a decorated war hero, a reasonably popular governor, and the mayor of NYC during 9/11. He needed an accomplishment to show how good at this he was.

Unfortunately there wasn't much in MA that he accomplished thanks to the extremely liberal legislature and corruption of the state. So it wasn't entirely his fault, but it's not a compelling case to be president, especially when you compare it to what Giuliani was able to accomplish in NYC.

All there was was the health care bill, so that's what he went with.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 10, 2010 02:50 PM (TpXEI)

354 its about ying and yang and social rhythms--the american electorate is about charismaed out--its time for an astute reasonable grownup to take the car keys from three card barry and a wannabe aimee semple mcpalin--t-paw may be beta but better betathan later--don't forget he was elected twice in a state with a quirky electorate that fronted media stars like jesses ventura and al franken--sometimes you just need someone sober enough to take the punch bowl away when the partying gets out of hand and who will garner respect from the me generation teenagers now in charge--the next election isn't about next season"s "jersey shore" and who hits who-- its about existence not essence-- so there:s nothing wrong with the pardigm of a john wayne/gary cooper strongsilenttype--that:s as american as golden age hollywood hero movies!

Posted by: HULUGU at December 10, 2010 02:50 PM (71vmn)

355 Forget that 2020 noise for Palin. By then will be ripe for Aqua Buddha and Constitutional Conservatism, Bitches (tm).

Posted by: JB at December 10, 2010 02:50 PM (RD9s+)

356 So all future Presidents must be pro-corn?
Posted by: Cherry đ at December 10, 2010 02:49 PM (+sBB4)
yup, you gotta be for Big Corn

Posted by: robtr at December 10, 2010 02:51 PM (hVDig)

357 276
Try FireFox or one of the obscure Mac browsers like OmniWeb or Shiira.

Camino is another good one.

Posted by: Gran at December 10, 2010 02:51 PM (xmjMj)

358 I like Palin. My preferered path for her would be for her to hold visible cabinet position(s) starting in 2012.* She could beef up her experience, knowledge, credentials, credibility amongst independents, and even her age. There is no rule that says she has to run in 2012 or never.
Haven't read the comments so if this has been mentioned already,chalk me up in agreement.
*I cannot bear nor entertain the thought of a continued Obamanation WH.

Posted by: Mayday at December 10, 2010 02:51 PM (TRgli)

359 as commander-in-chief this woman would be adored by the troops and vise versa

Posted by: navycopjoe at December 10, 2010 01:20 PM

Back in the early 1940s, Betty Grable was adored by the troops....

Shall we exhume her and put her up for the run in '12?

Some of the comments already made remind me, yet again, that it is the Palin fanbois, the rabid worshipers who ascribe any criticism of the patron saint as eeeeevil left-wing propaganda and "hatred," whose raucous and relentless attacks on anyone not fully in tune with their adoration, who will either have to come down off their high or see their candidate rejected by those who have questions but don't want to be pilloried for asking them.

And that includes enough people to give Palin's opponent a sizable win against her.

Posted by: MrScribbler© at December 10, 2010 02:51 PM (Ulu3i)

360 Fact: That she quit being gov for good reason is irrelevant. Uninformed, squish moderates will be bombarded by the MFM saying that she's a quitter who would rather make money than serve the public. Sadly, these are the people she needs to win over. It's going to be very hard to overcome this, no matter how many tweets, or FB posts she gives.
Posted by: taylork at December 10, 2010 02:32 PM (4yrb2)
See I consider this a legitimate criticism. Its addressing the issue without buying into the media preferred perception. This is not what the dipshit James did. He's one of the uninformed fucks buying into what the MFM is saying.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 02:52 PM (oVQFe)

361 Posted by: SantaRosaStan at December 10, 2010 02:46 PM (UqKQV)


Ryan has stated unequivocally that he isn't running, as has Christie. And Cristie would have to "quit" with a year less time in office than Palin had. I think Pence is running for Governor, but if he runs for POTUS I could see Palin sitting it out and endorsing him.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 02:52 PM (ISaDW)

362 Quitting the governorship was folding a losing
hand. That's just smart play.

Posted by: Dave at December 10, 2010 02:37 PM (2LwW2)
Yesterday I folded a straight to a flush draw--and he did have the flush.I still feel the pain, but he didn't get most or all of my chips, which I wuz about to lose. Kenny Rodgers was right...........BUT, politics ain;t exactly the same as poker. Palin could have turned that situation around--appointed someone to deal with the crap lawsuits, gotten the law changed, risen above itNo I don't know how, but I think it could have been done. All I do know is that if she does run, that 'quitter' shit will NEVER, EVER stop

Posted by: SantaRosaStan at December 10, 2010 02:52 PM (UqKQV)

363 If it were such an odious law and life changing
issue wouldn't you think Palin would be all over it as an Alaskan? As
someone said she's put the same effort into changing those laws as OJ
did searching for Nicole's killers.

Posted by: Roc Ingersol at December 10, 2010 02:16 PM (HFFiP)
It is my understanding that the laws have been passed. As well as a law reimbursing payments to the governor's family for travel expenses, and limited reimbursement for the governor's family for cell phone use.Next, you'll have to explain to me how the executive can 'change a law'.

Posted by: CUS at December 10, 2010 02:53 PM (wOGfT)

364 Posted by: Roc Ingersol at December 10, 2010 02:16 PM (HFFiP)

My understanding is that she lobbied for most of those laws. We had a brief primer in why during this last election cycle.

Prior to the current laws, things were set up so that it was virtually impossible to get anything done about corrupt politicians. There were all kinds of pay-to-play schemes and bribery and such going on. I understand it was something of an open secret, but there was nothing most people could do.

When Palin got into office (and even before that, as much as she could) she worked on changing those laws to punish the truly corrupt. Unfortunately, that greatly reduced what defenses she had to bear. Essentially the Alaska law says that if you're accused of unethical conduct, you're guilty until you prove otherwise. That's also why she couldn't access her legal defense fund: people said it was unethical, and so it was unethical until she could get that particular case heard.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at December 10, 2010 02:53 PM (8y9MW)

365 So Ace has gone from being a center left 'fiscal conservative' mood ring to more of a center left 'fiscal conservative' weather vane. Good to know.

Sigh.

Posted by: cackfinger at December 10, 2010 02:54 PM (TUBcJ)

366 Will Palin's fresh new army of Mama Grizzlies help her with the female vote?

Posted by: Cherry π at December 10, 2010 02:54 PM (+sBB4)

367 How many people can name the current Vice President? And how many people can name the current governor of Alaska?That's why it's a promotion. Not to mention the whole "first in line to be the next President" thing.


Posted by: robviously at December 10, 2010 02:29 PM (Dxb1S)
Not to harsh your mellow, but very few Americans can name the current Vice President. There are plenty of "man on the street" samplings that prove that.That the VP becomes the party's presumptive next Presidential nominee is nice, but it doesn't always work out so good. Ask Al Gore about that.More to the point, even when a governor quits to run for President, it can cause a flurry of criticism -- I believe that Bill Clinton had pledged to the people of Arkansas that he wouldn't quit the governorship mid-term to run for President and got flak when he did.

Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 02:54 PM (chhYn)

368 Got to say. I like her caribou hunting moxie, right there in front of the tree hugging cat squeezing endangered squirrel loving earth firsters.

But she should have brought it down with fewer shots.

I'll forgive that.

She'll do. She's Teddy Roosevelt in a dress.

Posted by: Sphynx at December 10, 2010 02:55 PM (fEmj2)

369 Gibbs said that Obama requested the meeting, which will be held in the Oval Office at 3 p.m. EST.
I'll takes signs of blatant desperation for $2,000, Alex.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 10, 2010 02:55 PM (B+qrE)

370 If Palin didn't leave office early, we would have public option, and Dem control of the House.... and puppies.

Posted by: Cherry π at December 10, 2010 02:55 PM (+sBB4)

371 "Any Rep candidate will be attacked by the MFM. That 's a given. But we don't need to help them
That is my hot button. Everyone has faults, but we you feed the other side's dragon, that's just wrong.
Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 02:48 PM (Ty06w)"
I agree with the sentiment, but the reality of the situation is that the media picked the last election and if Palin wins the nomination, the media will pick the next election. They've already done their work and done it well. She's damaged goods to the "middle". They've already formed their shallow opinions of her and those aren't going to change in a year and a half.
I'll vote for her in a heartbeat if she wins the nod, but some people who voted for Barky are already starting to say stupid shit like "Oh look, he can be pragmatic." or "Oh look, he's moving to the center." No matter how many rabid moonbatshit crazy lefties he pisses off between now and then, the media will still carry his water and his base will still vote for him.
The media will just be ahead of the game in trashing the Repub nominee.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at December 10, 2010 02:56 PM (fLHQe)

372 So all future Presidents must be pro-corn?

Posted by: Cherry π at December 10, 2010 02:49 PM (+sBB4)


No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I HATE ethanol subsidies and I hope she promises to end them. But it will be a hurdle for her in Iowa, that's just reality.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 02:56 PM (ISaDW)

373

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 02:52 PM (ISaDW)
yes, OBD, but you and I and everyone else has unequivocally said things--and then changed our minds. The Army and I had several unequivocal but consequential alterations in our love-hate relationship, for example.

Posted by: SantaRosaStan at December 10, 2010 02:57 PM (UqKQV)

374 So Ace has gone from being a center left 'fiscal conservative' mood ring to more of a center left 'fiscal conservative' weather vane. Good to know. Sigh.
Posted by: cackfinger at December 10, 2010 02:54 PM (TUBcJ)
Well, we can't all be perfected douchenozzles like you, cackfinger.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 10, 2010 02:57 PM (B+qrE)

375 370 If Palin didn't leave office early, we would have public option, and Dem control of the House.... and puppies.
Posted by: Cherry π at December 10, 2010 02:55 PM (+sBB4)

Wait, puppies are a GOOD thing!

Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 02:57 PM (RD7QR)

376 The media will just be ahead of the game in trashing the Repub nominee.
Then fight back. At least that's what I'll be telling myself I'm doing.

Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 02:58 PM (Ty06w)

377 I do get my hackles raised when I hear baseless, lefty smears against SarahCuda. She's what I call a "real world person." She knows how the world works outside of the Beltway and has a great deal of common sense, for which she is excoriated for by the MFM. Did I mention that I consider myself a real-worlder too? I can and do identify with her when it comes to the value of life experience over book knowledge.
That said, I've repeatedly said here that she would be far better suited in her current role as unofficial Tea Party Kingmaker, or if shereally wanted antitle, GOP Chair.I don't think she could win the presidency in 2012, and I'd hate to think of the unintended consequences of her running for president being the reelection of The Vapid One©. The nation has suffered enough under his rule.
And I've been real quiet about the other GOP presidential hopefuls, because I don't know enough about them to have formed an opinion about anyone save Pence. I, too, like my presidents somewhat boring and average as long as they have their head screwed on right when it comes to understandingthe proper Constitutional limits of government. However, I haven't found anyone that fits that bill yet.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at December 10, 2010 02:58 PM (b6qrg)

378 356
So all future Presidents must be pro-corn?

Posted by: Cherry đ at December 10, 2010 02:49 PM (+sBB4)
yup, you gotta be for Big CornDa-da-da-damn straight.

Posted by: Grassley's Overflowing Drool Cup at December 10, 2010 02:59 PM (EL+OC)

379 I hope you morons have all called your Sens and Reps to oppose this Porkulus II monstrosity being shove up our asses.

Palin or not Palin is a discussion which can wait for another time. The RINOs and Dems are fucking us again.

Posted by: dr kill at December 10, 2010 02:59 PM (le5qc)

380 Face it: Endorsing Ryan's plan. Visiting Haiti on a humanitarian mission (rumored). A (rumored) around the world trip to brush up on foreign credentials likely to hit Britain and Israel. Shaping the debate and policy with Facebook posts. Her TLC show which is a giant "Morning in America" campaign ad. The Left is still so insane about her they've gone completely overboard and made her look like a saint. And it doesn't hurt that now that McCain's staff isn't keeping her quiet she has on several occasions turned biting leftist attacks back on the attacker and used it to shed a light on the flaws of the left and the administration. She has also become much more polished and comfortable. 2012 will come down to Palin and whatever corrupt beltway puke the Bushes and others deem blue-blooded enough to rule us peasants.

Posted by: Chicago Jedi at December 10, 2010 02:59 PM (WZFkG)

381 I'm 100% percent behind the roadmap (or concept of the roadmap, as Ryan himself admits that he's still tinkering with it), but this sentence of Palin's leaves me a bit cold:
Among the few areas of spending(the Commission)does single out for cuts is defense—the one area where we shouldn't be cutting corners at a time of war.
If we're truly serious about cutting the deficit and getting the country back on solid economic ground (which means more smart tax cuts), defense, along with Medicare and Social Security, has to be cut. That means gettting rid of excess waste but also drawing down our military footprint (ie, why do we still have 50,000 troops in Germany?).
I don't see any Rep candidate (or Obama, for that matter) willing to do so, and I see Palin least likely of them all to do so.

Posted by: The Q at December 10, 2010 02:59 PM (2dOeM)

382 #352 Astute observation - she's an ENFP - the traits you mention are typical of the type.

Posted by: JB at December 10, 2010 03:00 PM (RD9s+)

383
186 "Yeah, Palin's supporters are alas one of her biggest drawbacks." Exactly. I would be much more open to Palin if it wasn't for her supporters throwing a fit all the time over the slightest criticism of her.

Thirded

Posted by: swamp yankee at December 10, 2010 03:01 PM (3DIBw)

384 Eh...excuse me righty type peoples....FYI, Sarah Palin would not make an acceptable candidate. Just sayin, please don't shoot me, have a good day. That is all. Carry on. Have a nice day.

Posted by: Abolitionist Vegan Coalition at December 10, 2010 03:02 PM (pr+up)

385 I hope you morons have all called your Sens and Reps to oppose this Porkulus II monstrosity being shove up our asses.


In spite of what Krauthammer says, extending the Bush tax cuts is not a second stimulus. It is averting the terrible idea of raising taxes in a recession.


Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 10, 2010 03:02 PM (TpXEI)

386 What Palin has figured out, and I'm surprised that Ace hasn't picked up on this, is that Republicans and Independents are going to want a candidate who is willing to draw distinctions with the sitting Administration.

You can see this in Administration and Democratic attacks on Palin's record in Alaska. They are attempting to paint her as a "big spender". They are doing this in an attempt to muddle the distinctions between her and Obama.

Democrats don't want to draw distinctions between her and Obama. Republicans want the very opposite.

That's what Palin knows. That's why she endorsed Ryan's road map. She wants to draw distinctions between her and Obama and her and the other Republicans.

Posted by: Downfall Hitler's Last Parody at December 10, 2010 03:02 PM (H6lGz)

387 379

Palin or not Palin is a discussion which can wait for another time. The RINOs and Dems are fucking us again.

That shit doesn't get the hit counter spinning. Ace needs a new girdle for Christmas.

Posted by: Barbarian at December 10, 2010 03:02 PM (EL+OC)

388 Also, this makes me think she's actually a little bit less likely to
seek the presidency at all -- this is a sort of Suicide Charge, and more
likely to be the move of an outsider hoping to influence the debate,
rather than a future candidate.

There's honestly no doubt in my mind at all that she's running. She's going overseas now, for Pete's Sake! Her book tour looked like a campaign tour. I'm not sure if she can really win the general election, but I will be shocked if she suddenly announces she's not running. I think it's a done deal.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 10, 2010 03:03 PM (tJjm/)

389 By the way, I actually thought Palin did a great job as governor, and the fact that she's willing to take on corruptocrats from both parties is, to me, her biggest strength.
That's something that no other candidate has demonstrated so far.

Posted by: The Q at December 10, 2010 03:04 PM (2dOeM)

390 382 #352 Astute observation - she's an ENFP - the traits you mention are typical of the type.
Posted by: JB at December 10, 2010 03:00 PM (RD9s+)

Really? I pegged her as an ESFP.

Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 03:04 PM (RD7QR)

391 Posted by: Burn the Witch at December 10, 2010 02:56 PM (fLHQe)

If the media gets to decide who can or can't be President we might as well just give up, because the country is fucked beyond repair. I won't vote for anybody the media finds acceptable.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 03:04 PM (ISaDW)

392 Still plowing thru the comments but...

2. It is in fact a capricious and flighty sort of decision to make, and
generally I want my presidents solid and boring, with very settled
lives. This is a scary thing about Palin, that her life seems sort of
unsettled, that she makes this decision and then that.


I think we could use a few years with capricious and having the demonstrated ability to beat something to death with a club!

Posted by: Dave at December 10, 2010 03:05 PM (2LwW2)

393 Successful Governor that cut spending. Was one of 2 states out of 50 during her tenure to create jobs. Took on the oil companies who were in bed with the politicians and ripping off the people, but did so in a fair way where safety was paramount as was production and jobs. Call me crazy, but this sounds like a pretty damn good resume to me.
Posted by: Dan at December 10, 2010 01:50 PM (1jzSs)
++++++++++
Well, kinda ... I have lived in Alaska all my life and I remember seeing the Beatles on TV. I have been watching Palin for quite a while and I even voted for her against Murkowski.
First, let me write that I am one that is always tempted to send lefties 4 good reasons to oppose Palin cuz the stupid shit they make up on their own is just too ridiculous to to endure.
The cut spending thing is not quite true. Most of it was just for show about a project that was already in the national headlines. It was also a Murkowski baby so it was easy oppose.
That said, AGIA is still playing out. Palin may have been right, or she may have set up a situation where Alaska is going to give $500 million to TransCanada for nothing at all. Remains to be seen. $500 million is a lot of money to Alaskans. It matters.
2 years as Governor -- let's all be real about this. Palin had to resign because she was being personally bankrupted by a batch of jackals that were using a bad law to punish her. The law itself was so poorly crafted that it made it impossible for her to defend herself from obviously false charges if she remained a public servant. OK -- it was HER law. She demanded it, she pushed it, she crafted it. That is the real"takes on the corrupt politicians" story. SHE demanded a law that crushed HER. Like it or not, at that time in her career she did not have the understanding of the unintended consequences of her ideas tosee the (now obvious)downside. Sorry, but that episode alone should make people trulynervous about letting her have a hand in writing the actual language of any laws.


Posted by: jc at December 10, 2010 03:05 PM (i8c5b)

394 ACE.... if you do not remember what she said during her speech when she left the Governorship... along with the "I am not retreating, simply reloading"...

she said that because she was going to fight hard and stick up for what she believed
in and because that might not be popular, she made sure to be clear about how she
felt about it.... "Politically, if I die, I die"

She made it absolutely clear even back then that she was going to say what she wanted, do what she wanted and do it as strongly as she could and it was a "damn the torpedoes" situation.

I think it would be very instructional for some who question just what Sarah Palin is all about to go to PalinTV.com (when it is back up and running) and listen to some of her speeches even two years ago... like her resignation speech, or like the speech she gave at the ceremony when she handed over the reins of control to Sean Parnell on a nice sunny day in Alaska.

The message is the same then as it is now.

Posted by: PhilipJames at December 10, 2010 03:05 PM (X/9bv)

395 367
How many people can name the current Vice President? And how many people can name the current governor of Alaska?That's why it's a promotion. Not to mention the whole "first in line to be the next President" thing.


Posted by: robviously at December 10, 2010 02:29 PM (Dxb1S)
Not
to harsh your mellow, but very few Americans can name the current Vice
President. There are plenty of "man on the street" samplings that prove
that.That the VP becomes the party's presumptive
next Presidential nominee is nice, but it doesn't always work out so
good. Ask Al Gore about that.More to the point,
even when a governor quits to run for President, it can cause a flurry
of criticism -- I believe that Bill Clinton had pledged to the people of
Arkansas that he wouldn't quit the governorship mid-term to run for
President and got flak when he did.


Posted by: stuiec at December 10, 2010 02:54 PM (chhYn)
1. The fact that there are idiots who can't name the current VP doesn't change the fact that it's a much higher profile job than governor of any state.2. Al Gore DID become his party's nominee for POTUS in 2000, and he came within a few hundred Florida votes of being the next President that same year. (I think he may have even won if some of his supporters hadn't been too dumb to understand the ballot.)3. If you pledge not to leave the governorship mid-term and then you do, obviously that'll cause some flak. If you didn't pledge anything, I don't think people will be that upset. If you just leave for the sake of leaving, that's also going to cause problems. Am I the only one who remembers Palin's speech when she announced her resignation? It was a mess.

Posted by: robviously at December 10, 2010 03:05 PM (Dxb1S)

396 In spite of what Krauthammer says, extending the Bush tax cuts is not a second stimulus. It is averting the terrible idea of raising taxes in a recession.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 10, 2010 03:02 PM (TpXEI)

I must have missed math class. This looks like a fucking killer from here. You in Big Ag, Big Casino, Big Pharma, or Big Rum, Bevel?

Posted by: dr kill at December 10, 2010 03:05 PM (le5qc)

397 Kay from Maineis back in the oral sex Gitmo thread. She says Alan Grayson is formingan exploratory commision (sic) for 2012, andimplies with all caps and bolding that she's nottaking any of her meds. I'd love to hear her explain in her broken English how stupidPalin 'is.'
Like Ann Coulter, I love Palin's ability to make leftists' heads explode.

Posted by: Beagle at December 10, 2010 03:06 PM (sOtz/)

398 299
I think announcing potential Cabinet members before being elected is unconstitutional.

Posted by: The Q at December 10, 2010 03:07 PM (2dOeM)

399 Then fight back. At least that's what I'll be telling myself I'm doing.
Posted by: ¤§EZB§¤ at December 10, 2010 02:58 PM (Ty06w)
Simply voting for her isn't enough. Organizing isn't enough. The media may be dying, but it's still a powerful opinion shaper and we're just not going to beat it.
That's why I'm in the Sarah as Kingmaker/Lightning Rod camp. She so fracking good at it and the media has no one else to shoot at. If the media has to wait until after the Repub primary, they'll be waaaaay behind the power curve in trashing our candidate.
Meanwhile, Barry is not going to stop trashing himself, so the media will have to work double overtime and their influence will be far weaker than it would if Palin gets the nod.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at December 10, 2010 03:07 PM (fLHQe)

400 he's an ENFP - the traits you mention are typical of the type.


Posted by: JB at December 10, 2010 03:00 PM (RD9s+)





Really? I pegged her as an ESFP.

Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 03:04 PM (RD7QR)
NO CODE, please: Only clear transmissions are permitted

Posted by: bored NSA twerps at December 10, 2010 03:07 PM (UqKQV)

401 383 186 "Yeah, Palin's supporters are alas one of her biggest drawbacks." Exactly. I would be much more open to Palin if it wasn't for her supporters throwing a fit all the time over the slightest criticism of her. Thirded
Posted by: swamp yankee at December 10, 2010 03:01 PM (3DIBw)
So let's see. That's ace who can be a bit thin skinned about criticism, with good reason. James, who is a dipshit ignoramous that is dumb enough to believe the MFM meme about her quitting the governorship. And swamp yankee who thinks earmarks are just awesome.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 03:08 PM (oVQFe)

402 a pawlenty administration -- he being the best contrast candidate to the one as a competant two term governor and a conservative working class hero to boot

Posted by: HULUGU at December 10, 2010 02:22 PM

Tim "The era of small government is over" & "man-caused global warming" Pawlenty a conservative? And a working class hero? WTF?!

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 10, 2010 03:09 PM (NITzp)

403 I must have missed math class. This looks like a fucking killer from
here. You in Big Ag, Big Casino, Big Pharma, or Big Rum, Bevel?

Big Taxpayer.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 10, 2010 03:10 PM (TpXEI)

404 395
I must have missed math class. This looks like a fucking killer from
here. You in Big Ag, Big Casino, Big Pharma, or Big Rum, Bevel?

Oooooo, Can I slip in my bridge projects too?

Posted by: Michelle Bachmann's Panty Liner at December 10, 2010 03:10 PM (EL+OC)

405 Alan Grayson is formingan exploratory commision (sic) for 2012
To do what? Find his ass with a flashlight and a pair of vise-grips?

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 10, 2010 03:10 PM (B+qrE)

406 Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 03:04 PM (RD7QR)


Could somebody give me a quick primer on what the ENFP/ESFP stuff means? Is it a personality type or something?

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 03:11 PM (ISaDW)

407 But she should have brought it down with fewer shots.



It took her one with the second (properly sighted) rifle.



Her father showed later in the episode that the rifle he gave her was shooting high.

Posted by: Buzzsaw at December 10, 2010 03:11 PM (tf9Ne)

408 398
299
I think announcing potential Cabinet members before being elected is unconstitutional.
Posted by: The Q at December 10, 2010 03:07 PM (2dOeM)
Ok, then just say she has them on her team as her Economic advisor *wink wink* her Foreign Policy advisor*nudge nudge* and her legal advisor *say no more* etc.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 03:12 PM (oVQFe)

409 Posted by: taylork at December 10, 2010 02:32 PM (4yrb2)

Then defend her to all the moderate squishes you know. You do realize this is how BOHICA got elected, yes? Because his supporters were rabid supporters who would make sure to get his talking points out to (in their case) supplement the Media narrative? If any Republican is going to win, they'll need a similarly rabid fan base who are doing everything they can to counteract the Media narrative.

Posted by: Dick Cheney's Warcock at December 10, 2010 02:35 PM (IDL9N)


No one is going to "unite" this country. Learn it, live it, love it.

And when you're sure you're going to lose, but that your cause is the just one, sometimes you have to use alternative methods. I actually have to say that is one of the things I like about her.

Yes, if she got into the White House and found out the game was SO fixed she couldn't do anything about it, I would not be at all surprised for her to immediately begin agitating for a new constitutional convention and (possibly) resign her position to show how serious she was.

It takes character to give up power for what you believe in. It is way, way too easy to convince yourself that you're "fighting the good fight" and that the power you have is necessary for that battle. We haven't had character like that in office since at least Ronald Reagan, and I doubt if he would have had that kind of character: it is very, very rare.

Posted by: MrScribbler© at December 10, 2010 02:51 PM (Ulu3i)


Remind me, again, what Betty Grable ever did for our troops? Sarah Palin has all the national defense chops someone who has never been President or SecDef can have. Mentioning that the military loves her is not some vapid piece of fluff comment, it's a real consideration: we want our troops really to be able to support our next CIC. Now, I submit that they'd rally behind any of the GOP candidates, but you cannot deny the love they have for Sarah Palin.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at December 10, 2010 03:12 PM (8y9MW)

410 NO CODE, please: Only clear transmissions are permitted

Posted by: bored NSA twerps at December 10, 2010 03:07 PM (UqKQV)

Look up MBTI ASAP. Oh, and the long sobs of the violins of autumn fill my heart with a monotonous langour. That is all.

Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 03:12 PM (RD7QR)

411
Alan Grayson is formingan exploratory commision (sic) for 2012

To do what? Find his ass with a flashlight and a pair of vise-grips?

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 10, 2010 03:10 PM (B+qrE)
A commision (sic) to explore dishonesty in political advertisements?

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 10, 2010 03:13 PM (xxgag)

412 "If the media gets to decide who can or can't be President we might as well just give up, because the country is fucked beyond repair. I won't vote for anybody the media finds acceptable.
Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 03:04 PM (ISaDW)"
Of course we're fucked beyond repair.
But I really liked the element of AoSHQ during the midterms about organizing and legally influencing elections by more than just voting. I don't know of any other blogs that were as active about that. I think this is the only way to maybe, possibly, sorta get us unfucked beyond repair.
I know that last bit makes no sense, but fuck it.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at December 10, 2010 03:14 PM (fLHQe)

413 #390 Esfp is Performer, Enfp is Champion - my sense is that Journalism majors are more likely to be Champions. Admitedly it might not be a "strong" N but it's definitely there - "death panels" was typical ENFP.

Posted by: JB at December 10, 2010 03:14 PM (RD9s+)

414 Could somebody give me a quick primer on what the ENFP/ESFP stuff means? Is it a personality type or something?
Myers-Briggs Personality Types. Bing it.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 10, 2010 03:14 PM (B+qrE)

415 About MBTI: http://tinyurl.com/29jdn72

Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 03:14 PM (RD7QR)

416 402 a pawlenty administration -- he being the best contrast candidate to the one as a competant two term governor and a conservative working class hero to boot Posted by: HULUGU at December 10, 2010 02:22 PM Tim "The era of small government is over" "man-caused global warming" Pawlenty a conservative? And a working class hero? WTF?!
Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 10, 2010 03:09 PM (NITzp)
Let's all not forget how unbearably annoying the Powerline boys will be. I swear that when McCain picked Sarah over Timmy, they were going to start slitting their wrists. Imagine how they'd act if he were the candidate.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 03:14 PM (oVQFe)

417 she's an ENFP - the traits you mention are typical of the type.
Really? I pegged her as an ESFP.

I've got Obama pegged as an EDP.

Posted by: The Q at December 10, 2010 03:14 PM (2dOeM)

418 "For one thing, she could still do her FaceBook commentaries and op-eds while sitting as a serving governor."
_________________________
No way. You are really just plain wrong about that. As a sitting governor,Palin was tied in knots. Had she spoken her mind, the ever vindictive Obama would have punished her state even more than he's doing now...what with specious EPA regs and demands. The Dems were so ticked she quit for this very reason...they wanted to shut Palin up and keep her out of the game.
As it is now, she is a consistent thorn in Obama's side...which has been quite a benefit for all of us.

Posted by: marybel at December 10, 2010 03:15 PM (ayLZl)

419 Circa at #122 called it:

"She can't win.The usual suspects have targeted her unfairly and I like her a great deal...but....She can't win."

I think the "quitter" meme will backfire on those who use it (ex.: "James" seems to be licking his wounds, and in ways requiring flexibility beyond humans). But even back in October 2008, I met several women, all apolitical, all of whom disliked Palin; couldn't or wouldn't say why.

Changing that outlook is virtually impossible; even with the MSM easing up on her (somewhat), the 2 years of Big 0 have not done it. I suspect 2 more will not be enough.

The public opinion of Sarah Palin needs to become much more positive over the next 6 months (or Big 0 really needs to screw up something BIG; perhaps the Iranian MRBMs headed to Hugoland will do it), or we need a different candidate. It's that simple.


As many otherse have posted, Huckabee (parole issues, evangelical ties) and Romney (RomneyCare, Mass. in general) are, I agree, poor choices.

I like Pawlenty, and maybe Rick Perry. Who else? Is Teh Fred finished?


Posted by: Arbalest at December 10, 2010 03:16 PM (KHA4G)

420 I've got Obama pegged as an EDP.
Posted by: The Q at December 10, 2010 03:14 PM (2dOeM)

Okay, drop the other shoe now.

Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 03:16 PM (RD7QR)

421 I believe that Bill Clinton had pledged to the people of Arkansas that
he wouldn't quit the governorship mid-term to run for President and got
flak when he did.

And Obambi did pledge to me and other Illinoisians that he would serve out his term as Senator. That turned out real well.

Posted by: CUS at December 10, 2010 03:16 PM (wOGfT)

422 O'Donnell/Angle 2012 for the win

What about Bob Riley, any thoughts on him?

Posted by: taylork at December 10, 2010 03:17 PM (4yrb2)

423 393 that episode alone should make people trulynervous about letting her have a hand in writing the actual language of any laws.
The counterargument could be that perhaps a Palin presidency would put us back to the constitution, where presidents don't have any hand in writing the actual language of the laws.

Posted by: The Q at December 10, 2010 03:17 PM (2dOeM)

424
Didn't we used to have a commenter here with (sic) in his name?

Posted by: Soothsayer for RNC Chair at December 10, 2010 03:18 PM (uFokq)

425 Looks like WZ is stuck in a time loop again.

Posted by: Ohio Dan at December 10, 2010 03:19 PM (GNhXz)

426 Posted by: JB at December 10, 2010 03:14 PM (RD9s+)

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 10, 2010 03:14 PM (B+qrE)

Ah, thanks.

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at December 10, 2010 03:19 PM (ISaDW)

427 The counterargument could be that perhaps a Palin presidency would put us back to the constitution, where presidents don't have any hand in writing the actual language of the laws.

Posted by: The Q at December 10, 2010 03:17 PM (2dOeM)

It's a weak counter. She should know when to take on tasks and when to delegate them to experts.

Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 03:19 PM (RD7QR)

428 Ace - Ryan's plan for Medicare is just plain dumb. It will end up costing more and providing less. It's really really dumb when you lay it out.

Posted by: ChiTown-Jerry at December 10, 2010 03:20 PM (f9c2L)

429 pawlenty has clemency issues Fred! has his head still buried in those knockers

Posted by: archie bunker at December 10, 2010 03:20 PM (0YS61)

430 By the by...On Obama's re-election chances....does anyone see him flipping any "red states" in 2012? 'casue I have a feeling that he's gonna flip some "blue states" back to red, no matter who the Pub nominee is.
Posted by: Luca Brasi

I see Ralph Nader in the 2012 mix. This will hurt The One more than it will hurt the Republicans.

Posted by: mpfs, licensed moose butt sniffer at December 10, 2010 03:20 PM (iYbLN)

431 I'm with Ace. This is a big deal and I'm surprised she did it, but if she's serious about cutting entitlements then I'm a lot more enthusiastic about her as a presidential candidate than I was yesterday.

I can't promise someone else won't get my vote in the primary, but she's gone up quite a few notches in my estimation just by endorsing the Ryan roadmap.

Posted by: Caiwyn at December 10, 2010 03:20 PM (ttktr)

432 OT: check the link on Drudge for Yahoo's explanation that the record deficit is exacerbated by the evil Rethuglican's plan to give money to the millionaires and billionaires.

"And the government's deficits are set to climb higher if Congress passes
a tax-cut plan that's estimated to cost $855 billion over two years."

And all this time I thought that it was Barky O'EmptySuit and the 'Rats' fault.

Posted by: WalrusRex at December 10, 2010 03:20 PM (xxgag)

433 I like Pawlenty, and maybe Rick Perry. Who else? Is Teh Fred finished?
How about Pence? He's sounding pretty presidential these days. He gave a speech not too long ago that pressed an awful lot of conservative buttons. But he's still got a name recognition problem.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at December 10, 2010 03:21 PM (b6qrg)

434 What about Bob Riley, any thoughts on him?
Meh. Mediocre as governor in Alabama with bad hair.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 10, 2010 03:21 PM (B+qrE)

435 422 I believe that Bill Clinton had pledged to the people of Arkansas that he wouldn't quit the governorship mid-term to run for President and got flak when he did.And Obambi did pledge to me and other Illinoisians that he would serve out his term as Senator. That turned out real well.
Posted by: CUS at December 10, 2010 03:16 PM (wOGfT)
Yeah and when Hillary ran for her re-election in 2006 she wasn't going to run for President in 2008 as well. Anyone saying they aren't running for president during a run for another office is not something that should be believed.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 03:21 PM (oVQFe)

436 3-I like her and all, but she cannot win.

Bullshit. LOOK at the map... can she win Ohio... YES.. can she win Florida? YES. Game over Obama.

She could lose Bush red states like Colorado and NV and still win.

This 'democrat talking point of she cant win" is working with republicans. Knock it off!

Posted by: Timbo at December 10, 2010 03:22 PM (ph9vn)

437 Also OT:
Obama retreats on EPA regs

Posted by: The Q at December 10, 2010 03:22 PM (2dOeM)

438
How about Pence? He's sounding pretty
presidential these days. He gave a speech not too long ago that pressed
an awful lot of conservative buttons. But he's still got a name
recognition problem.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at December 10, 2010 03:21 PM (b6qrg)

He is running for Governor of Indiana. Talk to him about running for President in 8 years.

Posted by: Timbo at December 10, 2010 03:24 PM (ph9vn)

439 I, too, thought her decision to resign was a mistake. For pretty much the same reasons as you.

Resigning from governor of AK meant she could make a boat-load of money and fly all over the lower 48 doing Tea Party stuff without running afoul of ethics accusations in the first part and accusations of "ignoring the state" in the second part.

I don't think she's 10-foot tall and bullet proof, but she's a lot better than Mittens. And she sucks all the oxygen from the room for the Huckster.

Posted by: Steve Poling at December 10, 2010 03:24 PM (db5YN)

440 Posted by: Timbo at December 10, 2010 03:22 PM (ph9vn)

Are you assuming that she takes everything that McCain won plus FL and OH?

Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 03:24 PM (RD7QR)

441 I like Pawlenty, and maybe Rick Perry.
Pawlenty has to recant on global warming, then we'll talk. Perry has the whole Texas governor thing to combat, though with the recent turnaround in perception for Dubya, who knows where we'll be in a year?

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 10, 2010 03:24 PM (B+qrE)

442 3-I like her and all, but she cannot win.

Bullshit. LOOK at the map... can she win Ohio... YES.. can she win Florida? YES. Game over Obama.

She could lose Bush red states like Colorado and NV and still win.

This 'democrat talking point of she cant win" is working with republicans. Knock it off!


Posted by: Timbo
---------
Hahahaha.. not by promising to cut Medicare, she can't!

You are living in a dream world if you believe anyone who promises to cut Medicare and/or SS can win in Florida, of all places.

Posted by: ChiTown-Jerry at December 10, 2010 03:25 PM (f9c2L)

443 Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 03:19 PM (RD7QR)

Which a) she's showing she knows how to do by endorsing other people's plans and citing what other policy wonks say when she talks/writes, and b) is hard to do when no one will do it. The Alaska Establishment (for obvious reasons) was not interested in her ethics reforms.

If I were more cynical than I am (yes, that is possible) I'd think the legislature let it happen on purpose- realizing just how disastrous the law, as written, would be for her at some point. That, or they were sure they could get it changed after her term(s) in office when she couldn't do anything about it.

Posted by: AllenG (Dedicated Tenther) at December 10, 2010 03:25 PM (8y9MW)

444 Is Teh Fred finished?

Thompson, you mean?

PLEASE.

Last time around he was so disengaged and downright sleepy looking, it was an open question if that hot wife of his wasn't wearing him out. The man honestly couldn't care less if he was nominated or not - I think he even said something like that.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 10, 2010 03:25 PM (tJjm/)

445 So the guy who vetoed mini-Obamacare is out, but the guy who believes in Al Gore's fairy tales is in?

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 10, 2010 03:25 PM (MiG8u)

446 I see Ralph Nader in the 2012 mix. This will hurt The One more than it will hurt the Republicans.
Posted by: mpfs, licensed moose butt sniffer at December 10, 2010 03:20 PM (iYbLN)
Not going to be an issue. The Democrats have gotten their act together in figuring out how to get his name thrown off the ballots, and having it announced at the polling stations that votes for him don't count.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 03:27 PM (oVQFe)

447 Reagan was an actor who starred with a monkey.

Posted by: havedsah at December 10, 2010 03:27 PM (sFD5n)

448
"And Obambi did pledge to me and other Illinoisians that he would serve out his term as Senator. That turned out real well."

Posted by: CUS at December 10, 2010 03:16 PM (wOGfT)

It wasn't a pledge pledge.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 10, 2010 03:28 PM (tJjm/)

449 He is running for Governor of Indiana. Talk to him about running for President in 8 years.
Hmm,that would bring age into the equation, I would think. He's not a spring chicken anymore. Or is that just the hair?
That's news to me. I thought he was floating his own name as a possible contender. Oh,well...

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at December 10, 2010 03:28 PM (b6qrg)

450 448
Reagan was an actor who starred with a monkey.

Posted by: havedsah at December 10, 2010 03:27 PM (sFD5n)

You mean Bush, Sr.? Look how well that turned out.

Posted by: CoolCzech at December 10, 2010 03:28 PM (tJjm/)

451 So the guy who vetoed mini-Obamacare is out, but the guy who believes in Al Gore's fairy tales is in?

Oh come on. In 2008 Romney wasn't running on vetoing mini-Obamacare.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 10, 2010 03:28 PM (TpXEI)

452 Last time around he was so disengaged and downright sleepy looking, it was an open question if that hot wife of his wasn't wearing him out.

Well look at it this way: On the one hand, young, sexy wife who will jump you repeatedly from the moment the Viagra takes effect in the morning until you drop from exhaustion.

Or, on the other hand, a thankless job that exposes you to possible assassination and constant vituperation and is guaranteed to age you 20 years in the space of your administration.

Hmmmmmm. Which to choose...

Posted by: joncelli© at December 10, 2010 03:31 PM (RD7QR)

453 #427 Please Understand Me 2 by David Keirsey - awesome book to learn about temperament.

I believe Obama is likely an ESTP - total Promoter type, mostly tactics, little strategy, no diplomacy. Audacity of hype.

Posted by: JB at December 10, 2010 03:32 PM (RD9s+)

454 Hmm,that would bring age into the equation, I would think. He's not a spring chicken anymore. Or is that just the hair?
That's news to me. I thought he was floating his own name as a possible contender. Oh,well...

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at December 10, 2010 03:28 PM (b6qrg)

He is 51 years old.He is running for Governor. He will win hands down. Its all local talk radio talks about and the current Lt Gov is pissed and trying to get as much air time as possible lately.

Posted by: Timbo at December 10, 2010 03:33 PM (ph9vn)

455 Jeez,
Still not caught up but apparently from some of these comments she did learn something re. unintended consequences do something about it?

Posted by: Dave at December 10, 2010 03:35 PM (2LwW2)

456 448
Reagan was an actor who starred with a monkey.

lol. Reagan used to quip that his acting career got so much more attention when he was President than during his time in Hollyweird that he might be the only B-actor that "wins an Oscar post-humorously".

"Looking for the next Reagan" is going to be a near-impossible task. He was a rarity among people and among politicos, he was absolutely unique.

Posted by: Kratos (Ghost of Sparta) at December 10, 2010 03:36 PM (9hSKh)

457 Pawlenty has to recant on global warming, then we'll talk. Perry has the whole Texas governor thing to combat, though with the recent turnaround in perception for Dubya, who knows where we'll be in a year?

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at December 10, 2010 03:24 PM

Pawlenty is also a big government Republican. And has been since at least 2006:

The era of small government is over . . . government has to be more proactive, more aggressive." --- Tim Pawlenty, 2006.

I honestly have no idea why anyone who claims to be a fiscal conservative would want Pawlenty anywhere near a leadership position in the GOP, let alone as President.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 10, 2010 03:36 PM (NITzp)

458 I was a huge Daniels for President fan..(he is my gov) but after he made reference to having a VAT tax... ugh.. he blew it. He will never win the nomination with that sound clip.

Posted by: Timbo at December 10, 2010 03:38 PM (ph9vn)

459 "Also, this makes me think she's actually a little bit less likely to seek the presidency at all -- this is a sort of Suicide Charge, and more likely to be the move of an outsider hoping to influence the debate, rather than a future candidate."

That Ace tells me you really do not understand her. She's busy thinking in three dimensions and going at problems from an outside of the box style while everyone else is slaved to "conventional ways of getting stuff done".

Those who underestimate Sarah Palin are sure to wake up with a hangover very soon. This is not a suicide run, its a headlong charge on her part.

Saying all that, I believe Sarah Palin does what she thinks is right for the nation first and foremost.

Posted by: Rodney C. Johson at December 10, 2010 03:38 PM (G/Eku)

460 " Some of the comments already made remind me, yet again, that it is the Palin fanbois, the rabid worshipers who ascribe any criticism of the patron saint as eeeeevil left-wing propaganda and "hatred," "

Yep. This kind of "serious objective reasoned analysis" from your side is a big part of why your collective opinion on Palin is being held in question. it sounds like Olbermann trying to be funny (but serious and important!) at the same time.

Good luck with that.

Of course another big part is that the vast majority of the 'Canon of serious objections to Palin' sounds quite a bit like it was written by Maureen Dowd, in a bad mood, at a cocktail party, over a year ago.

Much of it is either out of date(doesn't display an understanding of or familiarity with what she actually says), based on Tina Fay jokes(I can see X from my Y), or founded on some very strange logic (like assuming that unannounced candidates not having a fully documented platform for a national run is unusual and evidence of sloppy incompetent campaign instincts ).

This bulk of drivel, disguised as criticism, has since been passed along with scratches and dog ears to anyone who will accept it as "the conventional wisdom".

It is NOT merely rejected by those who blindly and savagely worship Sarah Palin with the spilled virtual blood of their own blameless political allies.

It IS rejected by virtually anyone who has heard it all about a million times since 2008 in one form or another, and looked into it closely to see just how lame, petty, and badly thought out most of it is.

Don't like Sarah Palin? Fine. Okay. But quit spitting chewed up Frum-bits at us and then expecting a #@#$ing medal for it and declaring yourself a martyr when you don't get one.

Posted by: cackfinger at December 10, 2010 03:39 PM (TUBcJ)

461 Yeah lincolntf, keep banging away at that line while ignoring the other extremely valid criticisms of Mittens in this thread.

Posted by: Burn the Witch at December 10, 2010 03:39 PM (fLHQe)

462 For all dickwards who like that 'Reagan started out with a monkey' comment, it's a lie. "Bedtime For Bonzo" was one of Reagan's last flics,

In his last flic, he smacked Angie Dickenson sideways for cracking wise, while playing a gangsta

It was FILM: You know, like, not real and stuff


Posted by: SantaRosaStan at December 10, 2010 03:41 PM (UqKQV)

463 Also wasn't this the blog that told me Obama is being torn apart and weakened from all sides just only yesterday?

Obama is over, he and a few of his cultists just don't realize it yet.

Posted by: Rodney C. Johson at December 10, 2010 03:41 PM (G/Eku)

464 Reagan was called an Amiable Dunce and we got reminded daily that he starred in "Bedtime for Bonzo". Guess what? He kicked their asses. Twice. The second time by a landslide.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2010 03:41 PM (o3bYL)

465 If we're going to have a standard, safe candidate anyway, why not the more-electable John Thune, Mitch Daniels, Tim Pawlenty, or Mike Pence?
----------

I don't post this with any snark intended, Ace, but you may want to answer your own question by doing some research into all 4 potential candidates. Instead of focusing so much on Palin, do some research into other potential candidates and write some posts about the pros-cons of each.

I'd suggest you start with Tim Pawlenty. His big cons, in my opinion, are (1) his support of man-caused global warming and (2) his statement in 2006 that the era of small government is over and government needs to be more aggressive.

(2) should be an instant disqualifier for him in the eyes of any fiscal, small-government conservative.

I really don't know much about Thune, Daniels and Pence. And while I take responsibility for not doing too much research into them yet, I also put some blame on them for this. While Sarah Palin is out there getting into the discussion of all the current issues, Thune, Daniels and Pence are not as involved and don't have as high a profile. If they want to be President, they need to be getting out front on issues and getting into the public eye.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 10, 2010 03:42 PM (NITzp)

466 Palin has already said NO to the RNC job. In a message to ABC News she writes:

"I respect the desire to have someone in charge of the RNC who
understands the wishes of the conservative grassroots and understands
that power resides with the people and not the vested interests in DC.
However, the primary role of the RNC chair seems be that of
fundraiser-in-chief, and there are others who would probably be much
more comfortable asking people for money than I would be, and they would
definitely enjoy it more."

Posted by: NunyaBizness at December 10, 2010 03:43 PM (CTz8q)

467 Yeah, Nader blew his wad in 2000. But a dipshit like Bloomberg, who seems to think that the entire country should be run like NYC, could do the trick.

As for Florida....Palin may promise to cut Medicare, Lord Zero already did. He ain;t winning that state again.

Posted by: Luca Brasi at December 10, 2010 03:44 PM (YmPwQ)

468 464 In his last flick, he smacked Angie Dickenson sideways for cracking wise
That'sssss why I ssssuported the man!

Posted by: Sean Connery at December 10, 2010 03:44 PM (2dOeM)

469 Insisting on finding someone to measure up to be the "next Reagan" is a waste of time. Pubs should be willing to "settle," and embrace and support the "next George W" because right now all I see are a bunch of second string bench warmers.

And a jug-eared jock sniffer.

Posted by: Fritz at December 10, 2010 03:44 PM (GwPRU)

470 "a standard, safe candidate anyway,"

A sure way to lose...
The election of Barack Obama ended that era forever. You can't fall back on the standard and safe anymore.

Posted by: Rodney C. Johson at December 10, 2010 03:45 PM (G/Eku)

471 " Well, we can't all be perfected douchenozzles like you, cackfinger."

But, Apparently YOU can dipshit.

Posted by: cackfinger at December 10, 2010 03:46 PM (TUBcJ)

472 Palin '12 election strategy-
1. Campaign on Cantor's Road map. (Balancing the budget).
2. Drill, baby, Drill and make the USA #1 energy exporter by 2016. (Grow the economy/jobs).
3. Quit wearing a bra and start wearing those silky sheer blouses. (Base turnout).

Posted by: Jimmy's Attack Rabbit at December 10, 2010 03:46 PM (GWdFe)

473

Saying all that, I believe Sarah Palin does what she thinks is right for the nation first and foremost.

Posted by: Rodney C. Johson at December 10, 2010 03:38 PM (G/Eku)
Me too.Her naming the 'Corrupt bastards club' did it for me.Those crooks actually wore hats with CBC on it... She took them out.
At first I thought her show was a dumb idea... but she has a ton of viewers that are getting her side of family life.. not some media spin. Its an hour long meet and greet every week. Brilliant.Look at what they say about her? Its hillarious.. it just helps her more with regular Americans. The latest hollywood nut saying she is just like Michael Vick for hunting.. only helps her with those of us throughout this nation who actually understand our meat comes from a once living animal.
She makes the left look as insane as they are every time they open their mouth.Palin constantly draws a distinction between her and the left.. who are you more like?
Who else has those balls in the republican party? Who else could put up with the kitchen sink being thrown at them on a daily basis for the last 2 years?And yet she smiles..

Posted by: Timbo at December 10, 2010 03:48 PM (ph9vn)

474 It sounds like John McCain is the only true maverick that can beat Obama in 2012

Posted by: Cherry π at December 10, 2010 03:50 PM (+sBB4)

475 This is kinda-sorta OT, but if you're not following Iowahawk on twitter, you're missing out! He just tweeted this: "One last one before I go: What do you call the hole in Julian Assange's condom? A 'Prikileak'."

Now that right there is funny!

Posted by: Theresa D at December 10, 2010 03:50 PM (2hQbY)

476
DEER LORD!

Does this mean that Sarah may have to do a little ewok hunting?

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie © at December 10, 2010 03:52 PM (1hM1d)

477 At first I thought her show was a dumb idea... but she has a ton of viewers that are getting her side of family life.. not some media spin. Its an hour long meet and greet every week. Brilliant
Eh, I don't know how much her show is actually going to help her. The majority of viewers are likely in one of two groups. One group will be her fans obviously. The other group is going to be the people that absolutely hate her and watch it in order to keep their RAGE! meter maxed out.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 03:52 PM (oVQFe)

478 " Exactly. I would be much more open to Palin if it wasn't for her supporters throwing a fit all the time over the slightest criticism of her. Thirded
Posted by: swamp yankee"

That's odd. I'd probably be a little less supportive of her if her 'serious, right aligned detractors', taken as a whole, didn't sound so bitter, self satisfied, uninformed, repetitive of leftist memes, and generally dull witted.

Posted by: cackfinger at December 10, 2010 03:52 PM (TUBcJ)

479 ok,

Here's where I wanted to comment when I read the link.
They can remain in the traditional government-run system or direct a
portion of their payroll taxes to personal accounts, owned by them,
managed by the Social Security Administration and guaranteed by the
federal government.

That or is going to be tricky.
Owned inheritable is great.
Managed by SSA, Bzzt wrong answer. When have they not screwed up.
And how do you get "guaranteed by the Federal government" without socializing losses, privatizing gains (my math bone to pick) and putting government in charge of corporations via %ownership (my Dad's).

That's 1.5 hours reading for a lot of nyeah, nyeah.

But the Slime my salmon was better than my club my fish so you morons are worth it.

Posted by: Dave at December 10, 2010 03:52 PM (2LwW2)

480 It sounds like John McCain is the only true maverick that can beat Obama in 2012

Posted by: Cherry π at December 10, 2010 03:50 PM

Heh, I remember in DEC 2004, the popular talking point was "Only Rudy Giuliani can save us from President Hillary in 2008".

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 10, 2010 03:52 PM (NITzp)

481 @468I really don't know much about Thune, Daniels and Pence. And while I
take responsibility for not doing too much research into them yet, I
also put some blame on them for this. While Sarah Palin is out there
getting into the discussion of all the current issues, Thune, Daniels
and Pence are not as involved and don't have as high a profile.

I think that the dynamic is different when you are out of office versus while you're still in office. Thune, Daniels, and Pence may not be doing the same sorts of things that Palin, Huckabee, and - kind of - Romney are doing to raise their profiles, but they are currently governing. So they are continuing to build their governance track-records and may, therefore, be less inclined to work on their public image or political track-records (by the latter, I mean being very vocal on endorsements, making speeches, etc).

I am not criticizing Palin - or even Huckabee (whom I loathe) or Romney - for what they are doing, merely pointing out that she and they have to promote themselves through these other vehicles because they are not governing right now. I think this very argument - that leaving office freed Palin up to be more "out there" - explains why the folks who are still actually in office tend to have lower profiles.

Pence's track-record

Thune's track-record

Mitch Daniels' grade from CATO (link through from Politico; I know this is not necessarily the be all and end all of rating systems, but it's a start)

I agree with you that I would like to see more pieces about the other folks whose names are being floated.

Posted by: Y-not at December 10, 2010 03:52 PM (IDL9N)

482 Your problem may be Oedipal, but you are step by step becoming aware of this.

Posted by: freud at December 10, 2010 03:54 PM (kgs/Q)

483
Eh, I don't know how much her show is actually
going to help her. The majority of viewers are likely in one of two
groups. One group will be her fans obviously. The other group is
going to be the people that absolutely hate her and watch it in order
to keep their RAGE! meter maxed out.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 03:52 PM (oVQFe)

and we have heard about it non stop.. the woman is in the news every single day.I bet lots of people are tuning in to see what its all about.

Posted by: Timbo at December 10, 2010 03:56 PM (ph9vn)

484
3. Quit wearing a bra and start wearing those silky sheer blouses. (Base turnout).

Posted by: Jimmy's Attack Rabbit at December 10, 2010 03:46 PM (GWdFe)

Your knuckles are dragging.. and it looks ridiculous.

Posted by: Timbo at December 10, 2010 03:57 PM (ph9vn)

485 Further, Palin and her supporters are fond of noting that every single one of the ethics charges against her were dismissed... do they not see the undermining of their claims here? If each ethics charge was being properly dismissed, why the great, pressing need to resign?
Posted by: ace at December 10, 2010 01:38 PM (nj1bB)

What part of going broke do you not understand Ace? Palin's bills were $500,000 she only made 375,000 up to that point. If she would have served her last year out then she would have cleared $500,000 and had bills of $500,000 or borke even. If one or two more "ethics" charges were filed she would be upside down in her day job. the Palin's were not loaded, had no fall back stash of cash like say a Mitt.

Oh yeah and if you are correct why did AK just change their ethics law so that the state will now cover the expense of defending those ethics charges if they are judged to have no wrong doing. If you are correct than the state of AK had no reason to change its laws. If however you are wrong and Palin is correct then the state had every reason to change their laws to avoid another gov being dragged down by a pack of partisans out to destroy him/her.

The facts say you are wrong. The State of AK changed their laws. This talking point has been refudiated by the State's actions.

Posted by: unseen at December 10, 2010 03:57 PM (LVvCy)

486 Tattoo, thanks for the thoughtful reply.

Posted by: texette at December 10, 2010 03:59 PM (TATbF)

487 Lookit, there are two reasons she quit as Gov of Alaska:

1) The bullshit ethics complaints against her were never going to stop, and she had to pay for the defense against them out of her own pocket, while also not being able to rake in the bucks doing TV and book deals. IE, they were bleeding her dry, just for existing and having the audacity to disagree with them.

2) The bullshit ethics complaints cost the state of Alaska millions of dollars to investigate and have hearings over (as they are required to do by law, even when the claims are obviously fraudulent).

By stepping down while she had a friendly Lt Gov in line to succeed her, she locked in her executive changes and left the state with good leadership to press for the legislative changes she wanted (which was her whole reason for running in the first place), while simultaneously saving herself and the state of Alaska millions of dollars that would have otherwise been wasted on dealing with bullshit ethics complains made up out of whole cloth by people who just didn't like her.

That sort of action tells me that she's in it for the good of the state and her ideals, not her political ambitions. She was willing to step down and be called a quitter for the next two or three years because it was better for the state to do so.

That's leadership by the old definition, not the new one (which near as I can tell means "to get people to follow you so you have fodder to use up when it most suits your needs").

The left thought they could use the rules as a bludgeon to beat her to death, but they never contemplated that a politician might actually give up elected office in order to side step their blockade.

Honestly, I think that her unpredictability is what all standard politicians fear her for. They cannot ever be sure exactly what she;s going to do, or how she's going to react when they fling shit at her or throw up a road block in her way. It's impossible to Machiavelli your opponent if they refuse to adhere to the rules you've dictated for the game.

Palin stands their rules (and the rulemakers) on their ears, and it confounds them to no end.

That right there would be enough for me to support her.


Posted by: CoolHand at December 10, 2010 04:00 PM (r4u0O)

488 Palin gets around 4 million dollars worth of free campaign video every week that she doesn't have to pay for or account for and which she has as much control over as she wants. Add to this her Facebook and Twitter accounts and Fox News appearances. She is already running hard and hasn't declared, while somebody else is picking up the tab. She has done an end run around the MSM unlike anyone has ever pulled off before. Oh yeah, she's dumb.

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2010 04:00 PM (o3bYL)

489 Some advice to Palin supporters: instead of describing what Sarah Palin is or was, provide some examples of the accomplishments that she has had during her career.

Particularly, examples of good executive decisions.

I'm honestly agnostic about Palin. I don't like the media attacking her, but neither do I think that's reason enough to support her as our candidate.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 10, 2010 04:03 PM (TpXEI)

490 We keep having these discussions about Palin.
We keep hearing its early.
Well, TPaw, my guv, is off my list, Mittens, off, Newt, the hell you say, Huckabee, what didn't I wipe, Daniels, fading fast(he have a wife, I mean with him?),...
I dunno, this vetting isn't atrip to the zoo for ice cream.

Posted by: gary gulrud at December 10, 2010 04:04 PM (/g2vP)

491 Further, Palin and her supporters are fond of noting that every single
one of the ethics charges against her were dismissed... do they not see
the undermining of their claims here? If each ethics charge was being
properly dismissed, why the great, pressing need to resign?


Posted by: ace at December 10, 2010 01:38 PM (nj1bB)
I believe throwing as much shit at someone in the hopes that just one sticks was the plan. They have done it before.She said on Dennis Miller that her and Todd didnt have a pot to piss in..500k in lawyer charges would have destroy them. It also took her entire staff to research all this bogus crap and respond. Alaska couldnt get anything done..

Posted by: Timbo at December 10, 2010 04:04 PM (ph9vn)

492 But she is part of that media now, and I think she needs a better communications person than Rebecca Mansour.

Is this the Rebecca Mansour who used to work for Harvard out in California?

Posted by: Y-not at December 10, 2010 04:04 PM (IDL9N)

493 I think that the dynamic is different when you are out of office versus while you're still in office. Thune, Daniels, and Pence may not be doing the same sorts of things that Palin, Huckabee, and - kind of - Romney are doing to raise their profiles, but they are currently governing. So they are continuing to build their governance track-records and may, therefore, be less inclined to work on their public image or political track-records (by the latter, I mean being very vocal on endorsements, making speeches, etc).

I dunno. I would have thought that being in office would give someone a better platform to (1) express their ideology and policy positions and (2) build a profile.

It seems that when people leave office, the majority of the time they are 'out of sight, out of mind'. Being in office and having a 'bully pulpit' so to speak, should give office holders a one-up on non-office holders, shouldn't it? Unless, of course, the office holders are not taking stands on issues, so as to stay out of the spotlight and protect their current positions of power.

I also recall the popular criticism of Fred Thompson regarding his failed campaign. The criticism was that regardless of having the right policy positions, it was on Fred to garner public support for his campaign. It was not on his supporters to make him popular, but on him.

So, taking that mentality, the fact that Thune, Pence and Daniels don't have a very high profile is on them. It may be deliberate (stay non-controversial and "moderate") or it may be incompetence (not energetic enough to garner attention... no 'gravitas', so to speak).

I agree with you that I would like to see more pieces about the other folks whose names are being floated.

Posted by: Y-not at December 10, 2010 03:52 PM

Me too. The only time I see Thune or Daniels or Pawlenty or Pence or DeMint mentioned as Presidential candidates, it's also as Ace did it here... as an afterthought on a post about something else. The fact that it seems there are a lot of people who think Pawlenty is a good candidate tells me that people have not researched him at all.

I think it is far past time for right-of-center blogs to stop their progressive-like obsession with tearing down Palin and start with a focus on researching all potential candidates for 2012. Instead of just saying "Palin can't win (blah blah blah 10,000 words later), but why not X?", how about posts of 10,000 words on why (or why not) Candidate X (Pawlenty, Pence, Thune, Jindal, Ryan whoever) is "Presidential material"?

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 10, 2010 04:04 PM (NITzp)

494 Start a thread on any other candidate. Any bets on the number of posts?

Posted by: SurferDoc at December 10, 2010 04:07 PM (o3bYL)

495 "Yeah lincolntf, keep banging away at that line while ignoring the other extremely valid criticisms of Mittens in this thread. "


Where are they? Most of the criticisms (not Bevel and others who at least grant that it's not what so much Mitt did, but what he says about it that bothers them) I see are a lot like yours, with vague allusions and childish name-calling.


Posted by: Lincolntf at December 10, 2010 04:10 PM (MiG8u)

496 @496


To be blunt, I'm from the "talk is cheap" camp. So I would rather evaluate a potential candidate based on what s/he is actually accomplishing, than what s/he says. So folks who are out of government - or no longer in public life as defined by running a large company (preferably publicly traded) or national/international organization - fall to my second tier. That list includes Palin, Romney, Fred, and Huck (although Huck is not a contender for me for many other reasons).

Pence seems to be a guy who sponsors bills that get support from other Congressmen (based on that page I linked). I've seen him on news/opinion shows and have liked what I've seen. (I don't watch lots of news/punditry on tv much anymore because my hubby can't stand those shows... so the fact that I've caught Pence on the tube suggests to me that he's out there often enough.) So Pence, unlike Obama - who did nothing of note up to running for POTUS, actually has been doing things.

It's too early for me to land on a candidate, although there are several folks I like and others I'm less enthusiastic about... and some (Newt, Huckabee) I flat out reject.

Posted by: Y-not at December 10, 2010 04:14 PM (IDL9N)

497 I'm honestly agnostic about Palin. I don't like the media attacking her, but neither do I think that's reason enough to support her as our candidate.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 10, 2010 04:03 PM (TpXEI)

Seriously if you think her supporters support her because the media attacks her you are wrong. Her 3 years of gov and her 12 years in Wasilla have many many accomplihsments. Like Palin changing a hole in the wall town into a city where 50,000 shoppers come per day using Reaganomics like gettingrid of all property taxes in Wasilla. Howher budgets were less than murkowski's. She didn't just cut the rate of increase like Chrisite she cut the size of the budget. Like how she took on crony capitalism in AK putting many GOP crooks in jail, getting the citizens of AK a better deal on their oil, pushing the biggest PRIVATE infrastructure project in th nation's history out of the planning phase. How she fixed the medicare mess in AK, how she shored up the retirement plans of the state workers, how she forward funded education with the surplus budegets she created instead of increasing spending, how she cut earmark requests to the federal gov by 80% from murkowski's terms. How she veto stimulus funds with strings attached, how she brought more oil production to the state with her tax policies?

Thinks like that?

Posted by: unseen at December 10, 2010 04:14 PM (LVvCy)

498 not Bevel and others who at least grant that it's not what so much Mitt did, but what he says about it that bothers them

One point I would like to make is that he did ultimately sign the bill, so he does own the finished product.

Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 10, 2010 04:15 PM (TpXEI)

499 I've always liked Palin and have supported her, butshe certainlyhas a knuckle dragging faction of fans that think making "liberals heads explode" is the most important qualification for president and that also think that slander and lies committed against Sarah are cardinal sin, while slander and lies committed against Romney are noble duty.

Posted by: swamp yankee at December 10, 2010 04:18 PM (3DIBw)

500 Reagan was about the only movement leader I could support, because of
his optimism, grace, experience and communication skills. How does Sarah
Palin measure up? She can be a thin-skinned, though I don't begrudge
her defending her family.

This is an example of the thin-skinnedness of the anti-Palin folks. She has been gracious under fire. She is taking the fight to the left while constantly being attacked by people supposedly on our side. This is an example where the anti-Palin people are simply trying to make any excuse to attack her. I think we should apply the Palin standard to all our candidates from now on.
Fair enough!

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 04:21 PM (DH9np)

501 how about posts of 10,000 words on why (or why not) Candidate X (Pawlenty, Pence, Thune, Jindal, Ryan whoever) is "Presidential material"?
Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 10, 2010 04:04 PM (NITzp)

Because they can't find 10,000 words on why those candidates should be president. Like in 1998 you couldn't find anyone that could make a convincing case for Bush to be the next president. The RINO's entire gameplan is to be not "as bad as the other guy". Thus, they don't speak up, they don't take a stand, they try to be the canvas on which people like Ace can paint what they will (think brown here). Because Thune isn't as bad as Obama is, for many, reason enough to support thune. Or Thune "looks" good etc. I doubt anyone here really knows much about thune at all. I doubt many on here know that gov Chrisitie's budget was $400million more than Corzines for all his tough talk.
I support the candidates I support because I want to vote for them. While I will on occasion vote for the lesser of two evils like I did for Burr this year. I worked to get Ellmers elected.

So my point is you don't see 10,000 word posts on Tpaw or thune because they are the "lesser of two evil candidates" and the only way for them to win is to attack and tear down other candidates like Palin.

Posted by: unseen at December 10, 2010 04:24 PM (LVvCy)

502 I don't like the media attacking her, but neither do I think that's reason enough to support her as our candidate.

That 's fine. I will be glad to support a better candidate. If not, it will be her.

Posted by: LAI at December 10, 2010 04:26 PM (DH9np)

503 I agree that Palin's endorsement of the Ryan plan is a good move. All this "third-rail" business can be contained by discussions of who is grandfathered, how means testing will work and how individual choice is always better than government "one fits all" planning.

Having said all of that, I don't believe Gov. Palin will run in 2012.

Posted by: MCPO Airdale at December 10, 2010 04:30 PM (SsNRK)

504 It's too early for me to land on a candidate, although there are several folks I like and others I'm less enthusiastic about... and some (Newt, Huckabee) I flat out reject.
Posted by: Y-not at December 10, 2010 04:14 PM (IDL9N)

a well reasoned argument. I base my support more on leadership skills. Being infront of issues, having others follow your lead, being "in touch" with the topics and daily conserns of the voters. character, passion, accomplishments, past decisions, ability to turn nothing into an empire helps, ability togather the correct people around them to get the job done. I person with a healthy distrust of government and government's ability to solve all problems is a big plus. I don't really like the blue bloods who got to where they are on the backs of their fathers or great grandfathers nor those that think the answer to every problem is a governmental program or taxcode.

Posted by: unseen at December 10, 2010 04:35 PM (LVvCy)

505 I think this is really cool that Ace is putting down his gun against Palin. She has been fighting the conservative fight the last couple of years and having conservative bloggers focused more on stopping Palin wasn't a good thing.
I say give her a chance. There are about 15-20 possible canidates. The ONLY one people have been trying to keep from even running has been the only woman in the group. Kind of sexist, atleast from an image stand point.
Let her debate the smartest Republicans[Romney-Gingrich] 4-5 times by Thanksgiving, if she is coming off poorly and without the needed gravitas and knowledge on the issues and if it looks like she still hasn't convinced the independents to vote for her, then turn all your guns on her. You will still have two months to stop her before the voting even begins to take place. And I will be along side you trying to shoot the Cuda myself. Now isn't the time.

Posted by: Keven at December 10, 2010 05:00 PM (yO+uQ)

506 Palin is out front, with the troops chasing the enemy like Patton.

I like that.

Policy isn't even an issue for me anymore, I agree with her %99 of the time.

It amounts to character, guts, courage to do what you believe should be done.

She is showing that. Even her decision to resign showed guts and character, if you know the whole situation. She took one for the team, knowing it would hurt her bad. She did it anyway, and I like that.

I want to see her run, and I want to see someone step up and defeat her fair and square, if they can.

Let's get it on, and may the best have the victory.

Posted by: Brian72 at December 10, 2010 05:11 PM (KYvP6)

507 I think the "dumbing down of the American public school system" is certainly evident in some of the comments about Palin and her supporters.
This is really very simple. The United States of America is broke or about to be so. Our government is corrupt, in our local, county, state and federal governments, repubs and dems alike.
We need a reformer; someone who is not afraid to take ona monumental task, someone with courage. Someone with a record of cutting spending and putting the crooks in jail or at least out of office. A person who is conservative and ethical. Someone who does not put their finger in the air to test the wind before saying yes or no. Someone who has a history of fighting for what is right in their city and state. Someone who loves this country andour military and will fight for all of us to get our country back on track.
Quit whining - re "she doesn't have enough experience, she quit, she wrote a book, she has children, her state doesn't have enough people, she makes toomuch money, she is polarizing, etc. etc". What a crock!
Many of you wouldn't know what would make a good leader if it bit you on the behind!
Read Palin's record.


Posted by: Amanda at December 10, 2010 05:24 PM (CD124)

508 Baggage? What baggage? Oh, you mean the lies the media has been telling about her and her family. Which, btw, have been disproven. I don't know of anything else bad about her. Or do you mean her quitting the governorship two years early? She and her family were going bankrupt with the frivilous ethics lawsuits the dems in Alaska were hitting her with. I don't see that she had any choice.If she had stayed in office the dems would have kept hitting her with more and more lawsuits which she had to pay lawyers out of her own pocket. As it was they succeeded in eliminating a perfectly legal defense pac. The dems and the media have gone after this woman without mercy. I have never seen anything like it. Also, if she had not quit her job she would have been stuck up in Alaska and would have probabably been forgotten by now.

Posted by: BarbaraS at December 10, 2010 05:41 PM (ra3KJ)

509 Let's all not forget how unbearably annoying the Powerline boys will be. I swear that when McCain picked Sarah over Timmy, they were going to start slitting their wrists. Imagine how they'd act if he were the candidate.

Posted by: buzzion at December 10, 2010 03:14 PM

I used to be a daily-reader of PowerLine a few years back. I stopped for a while as my blogs of choice became AoSHQ and milblogs. When I read here that the PowerLine guys had basically gone for Pawlenty as Hugh Hewitt had gone for Romney, I never went back. A shame too, because I've actually e-mailed back and forth a couple times with Mr. Hinderaker and he's a nice guy. And I usually agree with them on most issues. But, I can't see how anyone can support Pawlenty if they truly want to turn this nation's fiscal issues around. Pawlenty is as big government as they come and is the type of Republican the TEA Party Patriots stand firmly against.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 10, 2010 05:46 PM (NITzp)

510 Oh, and by the way, was Palin putting her finger in the air to test the wind when she came out in opposition to deportation of, and support of a "path to citizenship" (amnesty) for, illegal aliens in 2008 -- or did this position reflect her genuine beliefs?

Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at December 10, 2010 05:32 PM

Considering how much the McCain camp controlled her, I don't know how much stock I would put in anything she said on the campaign trail for McCain.

That said, it probably is her genuine belief. Granted, I don't think there is any top politician, unfortunately, who has come out in favor of deportation of illegal aliens. They're too afraid of having that twisted into "anti-Hispanic" sentiment by the MF-ing media and orgs like La Raza, etc.

I think the 'safe' position is to state support for "path to citizenship" only after building a wall at the border. I don't think anyone would have the cajones to come out in support of deportation, though.

The thing is, they don't even have to come out in favor of deportation. Illegals would self-deport if we only stopped giving them free benefits and started enforcing our own laws. It would be interesting to see how many illegals would be left after a 2-year period of strict enforcement of our laws and a wall constructed and enforced at the border. I speculate that we wouldn't even need to deport anyone, they would all leave on their own.

Posted by: Clyde Shelton at December 10, 2010 05:53 PM (NITzp)

511






If it is Palin's intent to run for President (which I tend to doubt), I think she would have been better served by serving out her term as Governor while maintaining a constant regimen of foreign and domestic policy study. Shun interviews, reality shows, etc. Then in late 2010 reemerge as Palin the policy wonk, while still having an earthy everywoman quality while surprising a lot of people with her command on the issues. She needn't have worried about people forgetting about her. Finishing her term of governor would have of coursealsoallowed her to avoid the label of "quitter" that is going to be affixed to her throughout any campaign.











Posted by: Reggie1971 at December 10, 2010 05:59 PM (b68Df)

512 512
Someone who does not put their finger in the air to test the wind before saying yes or no.

Oh,
and by the way, was Palin putting her finger in the air to test the
wind when she came out in opposition to deportation of, and support of a
"path to citizenship" (amnesty) for, illegal aliens in 2008 -- or did
this position reflect her genuine beliefs?


Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at December 10, 2010 05:32 PM

-------------------------

From that article:

As governor, how do you deal with them? Do you think they all should be deported?
There is no way that in the US we would roundup every
illegal immigrant -there are about 12 million of the illegal
immigrants- not only economically is that just an impossibility but
that's not a humane way anyway to deal with the issue that we face with
illegal immigration.

Do you then favor an amnesty for the 12 or 13 million undocumented immigrants?No, I do not. I do not. Not total amnesty. You know,
people have got to follow the rules. They've got to follow the bar, and
we have got to make sure that there is equal opportunity and those who
are here legally should be first in line for services being provided
and those opportunities that this great country provides.

To clarify, so you support a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants?
I do because I understand why people would want to be in
America. To seek the safety and prosperity, the opportunities, the
health that is here. It is so important that yes, people follow the
rules so that people can be treated equally and fairly in this country.
-------------------------
What about this says she's for amnesty for illegals? She makes several good points: 1) it's impossible to round up all the illegals, 2) there is an existing path to citizenship 3) everyone has to follow the law if they want to become citizens and get in line, and 4) that legal immigration is good for the country.

Regarding #1, the way to reduce the number of illegals is to make it very, very costly for anyone to hire them. They will leave on their own.

For those who wish to stay and work, there is already a system in place for that. Any who wish to become citizens will need to follow the current law in order to be considered, but they will need to go to the back of the line.

That is all she said there.

Posted by: Don B at December 10, 2010 06:06 PM (ivqhP)

513 492 Some advice to Palin supporters: instead of describing what Sarah Palin is or was, provide some examples of the accomplishments that she has had during her career.

Particularly, examples of good executive decisions.

I'm honestly agnostic about Palin. I don't like the media attacking her, but neither do I think that's reason enough to support her as our candidate.
Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 10, 2010 04:03 PM (TpXEI)Well, here is an example.
I remember one story while she was Governor where she was criticized for supporting a plan to send money to local towns and cities for renewable energy projects (windmills, Solr, etc). Criticized as hypocritical by the left and as a RINO by the right. But the truth was that the plan completely left the actual details of the energy projects up to the local communities. She wanted them to decide what was the best options for energy development and didn't dictate at all what kind of energy source they'd use, be it natural gas or windmills. I think that's a hugely important distinction to the way the current Administration (as well as countless past admins) has picked winners and losers and pushed preferred technologies and industries to the rest of the country.

Posted by: Serious Cat at December 10, 2010 06:09 PM (bAySe)

514 519
"What really rankles me is the deification of Sarah Palin as somebody who's somebody different, somebody new, somebody purer and truer and more genuine than anyone else in the Republican Party. I don't think that she is. I think she's a skilled politician, and I trust her as much as I trust any other politician, on any side -- which is to say, hardly at all. Politicians are tools; they can be useful or they can be a liability.Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at December 10, 2010 06:25 PM (/+6ux) "
War,
It might seem like that, BUT let me give you one perspective, mine.
I was in my early 20's, and recently active in politics when Ronald Reagan ran against Gerald Ford in 1976. I was joyously on Ronald Reagan's side, which lost in the primaries. Unlike many of my conservative co-patriots, I must been too much of a RINO, because I wanted to win, as a Virginian, I had dealt with the sweet talking Southerners like Carter (Clinton later) all my life. Also, in 1975 I worked with a Young Republican group in Northern VA who managed to defeat a 47 yr Democrat in the State Senate. Winning is cool.
After Ford lost, I worked towards Reagan's election in 1980. At NO POINT, including the night before do I remember Reagan being reported as ahead by any margin, and most of the election, he was significantly behind.
Ronald Reagan had an ability through his speaches to go past the media, directly to the voters. The greatest strength of Reagan, IMHO, was that since he had a Democrat House, he often had to compromise. Of the 11 presidents in my lifetime which I remember, and the 9 which I was politically cogniscent of, NONE was I sure would submit to compromise, yet when the issue came up again, I KNEW Ronald Reagan would start at his original position and work to gain more ground. NO Republican since has had that characteristic. The usual position was start from the last ending point and hope to retain as much as possible.
First before the flames. Palin IS NOT Reagan (although before he was President Reagan wasn't the Reagan of lore either), I have placed their pictures side by side and there is not any resemblance.
As to deification, I think what you interpret as deification is much simpler. Those of us who find Sarah Palin as the closest thing to Ronald Reagan we have seen since, find the utter villification of her not only by Democrats and the media, BUT by the Republican Establishment, including McCain's team. As a Southerner, we protect and defend our Ladies. I remember the Republican Establishment who despised Ronald Reagan, in fact, that was the reason for the Bush dynesty, Bush was Reagan's bow to said Establishment.
You must remember that Reagan was thought as intellectually shallow during his Presidency, it was not until his Letters were published, that that idea was blown out of the water in many quarters.
I did not agree with everything Reagan did or proposed, just as I expect to disagree with Sarah Palin. YET, I have supreme trust in her goals (Just as I trusted Reagan).
What, you may ask, could engender such trust. Quite simply...Country First! Limiting Government! Both Palin and Reagan are unabashedly Proud of Our Country.
Regards,

Posted by: the Dragon at December 10, 2010 07:43 PM (gRSqy)

515 I read this entire thread, and what strikes me most is that those that are negative about Palin truly do not know her record, or reasons for any decisions that she has made. You've not done any actual research, and are spouting only the things you've read from establishment type blogsand media. What's truly sad is that you were informed about your misperceptions, and stillcame back with the same rhetoric. You do not want to have an open mind, and refuse to even consider the facts.
That's fine, if that is the same way you look at all politicians and/or candidates, but it is a clear look into how you base your decisions. That, to me, is truly frightening. Me...I want to know the truth, and don't settle for what others deem to be true. When you start using the same standard for other candidates as you do for Palinthen maybe, just maybe, your opinions will matter. Until then you are no different than the Frums, Noonans,or Scarboroughs of the Republican Party. You're basing your opinions on feelings, not facts. Look at the current dipshit in the WH to see where that gets you.

Posted by: Steph at December 10, 2010 07:50 PM (kOSds)

516 I'm not reading 500 comments to see if this has been said, but if you're on team "Anyone but Palin" it means you're de-facto in Team Obama.

Posted by: Cheesecakecrush at December 10, 2010 07:59 PM (//GG+)

517 From TIME interview...
Why do you think you can beat Barack Obama?

In 2012, Barack Obama will have what he did not have in 2008: a record in office. Americans have seen over the past two years what that record is and what he really stands for. My vision of America is diametrically opposed to his. He sees America as the problem. I see America as the solution — if only our creative energy, ingenuity, and entrepreneurial spirit were not shackled and stymied by government. He believes in radical transformation to move us in the direction of the failed ideologies that so many of our allies in Europe are now trying to shake off as they face economic turmoil. I believe in restoration of the time-tested principles of the free market and individual liberty that have historically made us free and prosperous and peaceful and strong — as "the abiding beacon of freedom" and "the last best hope of earth" that Reagan and Lincoln called us.

Sarah Palin

Posted by: Dan at December 10, 2010 08:03 PM (1jzSs)

518 523 "As for your post, Steph, it's unfortunately more typical of a lot of the rhetoric I've seen from many of Palin's supporters, that is driving even natural allies away from her.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at December 10, 2010 07:55 PM (/+6ux) "

War,

Another thought if you will. I guess I can see your point, BUT maybe IF you try to see most of the Palin supporters comments. We and SHE have been taking incoming for 2 years, what is particularly frustrating is the supposed "Friendly Fire". Very little of the friendly criticism seems to be based on policy, and alot of it is right out of the media, which means even those conservatives who question Palin, seem to criticize with the media's garbage as a basis.

Is that thin skinned? Maybe, I often wonder is ANY of these supposedly Conservatives are real or are they sophisticated trolls.

I could care less if you like or dislike Sarah Palin...that's your right. I often wondered would the conversation be different IF these disagreeing friends "walked a mile in our shoes?" And I don't mean YOU MUST support Sarah Palin, just I try to understand other points of view or reasons for comments, I just wish the opposite was also true.

Regards,

Posted by: the Dragon at December 10, 2010 08:11 PM (gRSqy)

519 Posted by: Bevel Lemelisk at December 10, 2010 04:15

I re-read my post and I want to assure you that I wasn't trying to put words in your mouth. I should've phrased that better.
(Our memories of the Romney Administration differ, but that's inevitable in politics.)

But we all know that once a veto is overridden the legislation becomes the law of the land, right? There are choices and then there are duties, and they don't always line up the way we'd like them to.

Posted by: Lincolntf at December 10, 2010 08:18 PM (MiG8u)

520 " Hell, I'd settle for one who can hold down a job. "
Ah. More of that "serious, dispassionate, hard hitting, policy based,in depth, objective analysis" from the "oh help!save me from all the crazy stupid Palin lovers who are ruining the GOP"crowd.
Very Frumian.

Posted by: cackfinger at December 10, 2010 09:12 PM (TUBcJ)

521 " I've always liked Palin and have supported her, butshe certainlyhas a knuckle dragging faction of fans that think making "liberals heads explode" is the most important qualification for president and that also think that slander and lies committed against Sarah are cardinal sin, while slander and lies committed against Romney are noble duty."
Actually, Ilove the way that she makes RINO's heads explode. Then they try to bring her down with spit wads that they borrowed from the kid at desk to the left.

Posted by: cackfinger at December 10, 2010 09:22 PM (TUBcJ)

522 Today, politicians will never resign... they will go all the illegal things just to stay in power ... even sell their soul to the Devil.

Palin chose the other path.

As for experience, I don't care if Palin doesn't know much about the DC politics. All I know are these: (1) She's a fighter and she never gives up until she gets what she wants. (2) That Gas Project in AK, the largest in America, is ALL THE EXPERIENCE WORTHY TO BE CONSIDERED.

Palin 2012!!!!!

Posted by: FLIndie at December 10, 2010 09:23 PM (qw7Qw)

523 " by the way the cocoon occurs precisely because of these henny-penny freak-outs over any derogatory statemetn about Palin, to the point where people just aren't comfortable saying anything bad about her. But don't mistake that crowd-shouting-enforced silence for endorsement. People just get tired of being attacked for this. "
I don't believe any cocoon exists ace. I thinkyour coccoon just an artifact of a guy desperately trying to prop up a really pitiful argument in defense of some really pititful criticisms that are clearly more personal than substantive.
No one complains because 'you dare tocomplain about Palin.'
The complaint is that 'your complaints are suchfrequently rehashed,petty, weaksauce babyshit that they strongly undermine your dislike of Palin'.
Then you just say "Naw. My complaints are great. You just hate all complaints reflexively."
But dude, you recently launched into Palin from the middle of a rant aboutMeggy Mac ranting about Palin. Do you imagine that didn't come off as a gratuitous stretch or even midly compulsive?
Maybe there are some huge problems with Palin but you really haven't broughtup anything worth thinking about for more than three seconds so far. It's just aboutall beenrecycled and unfounded "she can't hack it" variations peppered lightly with " she's just not GOP front material".
I'm sorry that more of us can't 'go there' with you and be your back thumping pals who guard your six.
This laughable crap narrativeabout how you poor dear gentle souls are being "silenced" by what you contemptously describe as an angry, stupid, 'coccooned'cult of personality sounds rather likeYOU are trying to shame those who dare challenge your silly complaints about Palin into silence.
What I think you are really complaining about is the lack of positive reinforcement these diatribes bring you. People frown and shake their heads and say "that's a bunch of shit" and you don't like it.
Then you rant about how Palin is not really universally loved and we just need to accept it.
What shit.

Posted by: cackfinger at December 10, 2010 09:46 PM (TUBcJ)

524 OMG! Those ugly unfriendly people aren't laughing at my shit Sarah Palin jokes ! They must be in the cult! It can't be me, or what I said, or how I said it, or how often I said it. Gotta be a cult!
Cocoon!

Posted by: cackfinger at December 10, 2010 09:53 PM (TUBcJ)

525 As for your post, War, it's unfortunately more typical of a lot of the rhetoric I've seen from many of Palin's detractors, that is driving even people that may have been sitting on the fence to defend her.
Posted by: The War Between the Undead States at December 10, 2010 07:55 PM (/+6ux)
FIFY

Posted by: Steph at December 10, 2010 10:11 PM (kOSds)

526 The bottom line is that we are going to have a primary. If you don't
like Palin, then vote against her. That 's the point of the primary. If
you don't want Palin to win the primary, then the incessant attack
against her (btw, these are just minor "excuse"), would have the
opposite effect. I am personally turned off by the shallow attacks
against Palin.

Bolding by me...

I'm sorry LAI. I completely fail to see how Ace's endorsement of Palin's support for the Ryan plan that he admits nudges him into the "more likely to support a Palin candidacy" from "Camp Anyone but Palin" constitutes some sort of "shallow" attack against her.

Honestly, I am fucking mystified that you would have such a negative response to this!

It's like there is NO SUCH THING as legitimize criticism coming from the conservative camp.

"It's ALL the MSM!!111ty!!!"

If only you KNEW the REAL CIRCUMSTANCES and the TRUE FACTS!!!111ty!!!

RINO!! Cocktail Parties!!! *thrppbbthth trp schlk* sputter, ELITIST WING of the GOP!!!111ty!!!

Oh, Fuck off!

(And no, I'm NOT going to sign up to facebook to catch her each and
every missive. I haven't done that to keep up with school friends or family
members or even to "build my business". Why the hell would I do that now
to follow a fucking politician?)

I watched that debacle start over Labor Day Weekend 2008 on the intarwebz and was horrified at the way it snowballed over the next 3 weeks.

Still, I was chuffed as hell about voting for a politico that I had a feeling that I might not just like as a person but also respect the hell out of her too boot.

I have also very closely watched her political career since the day she was named as VP candidate, including the facts and circumstances of her resignation of her Governorship.

I assure you that I get very little of my "news" exclusively from the NYT and NBC.

My personal evaluations of her resignation and it's larger import are, of course, my own opinion (and every one has one) but I've just about run out of patience with the attitude (I choose that word very specifically) that certain Palin supporters instantly strike if you don't at least tacitly, if not declaim from the rooftops in your jammies at 12:08AM every day, agree that it was:

A.) The most super-duper craftiest maneuver in the history of all politics!

B.) The only possible decision this vulnerable, middle-class Mom could have possibly taken once she was so victimized the MSM and ruthless Liberals, "to save her family"!

C.) Combination of A.) and B.) - She had no choice! But look how popular and successful she is, now that she's been freed from the chains of a Governorship! She's making Lefty and MSM heads explode all the time!

I like Sarah Palin just fine!

I'm very well versed in the facts of her public career, thank you very much.

And just because I don't look at her facebook page, does not mean that I am unaware of her missives. (I pay more attention when she gets published in the WSJ, so sue me.)

But I'm weird!

And so are you!

Most normal people just plain don't pay the kind of attention to this shit as we do.

I think that you are deluding yourself if you think that winning the next Republican primary necessarily entails winning over the persuadable portion of the general electorate.

And, if you have "getting Sarah Palin elected as the Republican nominee for President of the United States!" as an End rather than a Means, we will have to part company.

Sorry, LAI.














Posted by: Crispy Deety at December 11, 2010 02:02 AM (Jb3+B)

527 I say give her a chance. There are about 15-20 possible canidates.
The ONLY one people have been trying to keep from even running has been
the only woman in the group. Kind of sexist, atleast from an image stand
point.
Let her debate the smartest Republicans[Romney-Gingrich] 4-5 times by
Thanksgiving, if she is coming off poorly and without the needed
gravitas and knowledge on the issues and if it looks like she still
hasn't convinced the independents to vote for her, then turn all your
guns on her.

AH! HAHHH!

So, you admit that their might be at least 2 potential Republican candidates other than SP that you, yourself lable as "smart"!

(Might disagree with the intellectual characterization in regards one or each of these two individuals but I appreciate the opening.)

I fear that people getting all dug in and personally invested in theoretical candidates for the Republican primary races in 2012 might turn out to be pure poison for conservatives, overall.

(Except for Huckabee! He deserves to be tossed into that trash bin of History or play Bass guitar on a really fucked up weekend time-killer on Fox News for eternity. Either way works for me.)

[Yeah, and about you fuckin' retards in Iowa who voted for Huckabee, last go around? I have long been hoping {12/07 or so} that killer wasps would build a nest in your baggy sweats and not be noticed until they all suddenly decided to sting the crap out of your buttocks and lower thighs, late at night, until you die of Ananaphylactic shock, before the ambulance can arrive.]

STFU Iowa!

Like I should give a shit what you provincial Corn Whores want!

You too, New Hampshire!


Posted by: Crispy Deety at December 11, 2010 02:53 AM (Jb3+B)

528 Frankly Ace anywhere near her corner is like PeeWee Herman

Posted by: gary gulrud at December 11, 2010 03:39 AM (/g2vP)

529 Comparing Palin to Christie misses the point because they come from very different political climates and face very different challenges. In New Jersey, the state government has outgrown the private sector. Christie is not trying to fundamentally change New Jersey. Rather, he is trying to reduce the overhead; make the state government affordable again. A herculean challenge to be sure; but not the same one Palin took on.

Alaska does not really have a private economy. The state is not much different from a public housing project or an Indian reservation. The residents don't have to work and don't have to pay taxes. What little private economy exists is completely dominated by the three oil companies who almost always act as one. The much touted fishing industry is completely controlled and directed by the state government, largely for the benefit of the Indian tribes. Eastern Tenn. has a larger tourist industry.

And, like all public housing projects and Indian reservations, corruption is a way of life, with the current "boss of bosses" being Big Frank the Murk.

And, like all public housing projects and Indian reservations, there is great discontent and frustration among many residents. Most Alaskans want a private sector economy and a self sufficient producing state that makes a net contribution to the nation, much like Texas. Most just do not believe real change is possible. Palin and Parnell were the first Alaska politicians to successfully build a base of support on the premise that real change was possible.

Their challenge was not to shrink the size of the state government; but to break the iron triangle of dependency and corruption: oil company - state government - federal pork. Palin's popularity as governor largely came from: 1) forcing the oil companies to pay what they actually owed the state for the oil and gas they were extracting (ACES); 2) breaking the oil companies' vertical monopoly on the north slope (AGIA); and 3) eliminating oil company control of the governor's office and executive branch (ethics reform act).

None of these objectives involved anything resembling lower 48 politics, which most Alaskans do not understand or relate to.

Palin's near fatal mistake was accepting McCain's offer to run for vice president. She had nothing to win and everything to lose. Most importantly, it immediately made her governorship untenable. She should have declined the nomination or resigned when she accepted it.

DNC operatives began to undermine her effectiveness as governor by using the ethics act to paralyze her administration and force her into personal bankruptcy. They also began to financially support and otherwise empower the CBC to dismantle ACES and AGIA in order to further discredit Palin.

The DNC and CBC were natural bedfellows. The DNC takes down Palin and the CBC restores the iron triangle of corruption. She should have seen this coming.

In response, she resigned and, in doing so, out maneuvered the DNC and CBC. Parnell took over as governor. That guaranteed the continuation of ACES, AGIA, and the ethcis reform. The DNC didn't care about Parnell and took its money back to the lower 48. Parnell won reelection in a landslide.

I remind those who say she "quit" or "couldn't take the heat" that her position as governor became untenable the minute she accepted the vice president nomination. She should have announced her resignation at the convention. But, she didn't. Nevertheless, she has managed to make herself into the only politician that the White House actually responds to. She is largely responsible for the election of hundreds of people to national, state, and local office.

Whether any of this qualifies Palin to be president is anyone's guess. But, she does not make many mistakes and she never makes the same one twice. She has an uncanny ability to discern and articulate what the majority of people genuinely care about. In Alaska, they used to call it "sarahdipity."

Never entrust power to anyone not willing to surrender it.











Posted by: VADM (Red) Cuthbert Collingwood RN at December 11, 2010 07:41 AM (UL/HQ)

530 mitch daniels is no longer acceptable to me as he is showing a hostility to christianity. goodby mitch.

Posted by: MARC at December 11, 2010 11:38 AM (Xap2A)

531 Having read Ace’s article and all 500+ comments on Sarah Palin’s endorsement of Paul Ryan’s Roadmap to Solvency, and how this has moved him into the agnostic column concerning her, I thought I owed a reply.

Perhaps a bit more harshly than others, I have been critical of Ace’s position on Palin. Naturally, I applaud his open-minded conversion, even if it is just a baby step in the right direction. A new era of Value-Rite vodka swilling, hobo hunting comity looms on the horizon. However, as good as the Ryan endorsement is let me state for the record why I believe this particular act is proportionately minor in the overall reasons for people to support a Palin presidency.

Anyone could have done the same.

Yes, backing this plan so early shows a willingness to place her political chips into the game and puts her in the crosshairs of any detrimental criticism on the details, so it is a display of courage. As fingers are placed into the political wind, more and more will sign on and claim credit for their stand for fiscal responsibility. If this were her defining accomplishment, Palin would be one in an indistinguishable pack of posers claiming to “walk the walk”.

For me, and what I hope others would research and understand, is the circumstances behind her resignation from the Alaska Oil and Gas Conservation Commission.

Frank Murkowski correctly identified Palin as trouble following her run for Lt. Governor. Short of ordering that she be found during the spring thaw under a snow bank, he reasoned that a woman with 4 children and limited income would appreciate a plum political appointment to a position with a six-figure salary. All she needed to do was go along, keep her mouth shut (as directed by Alaska law) and collect her much-needed paycheck.

Who would have thought that someone – anyone – would give up something as profitable as this position in order to expose corruption and conflict of interests? By bending (breaking actually) the commission rules and law, she could have given “deep background” interviews with the press and secretly passed along documents to achieve the same goals while keeping her paycheck, but she didn’t find that ethical. Palin followed the rules, resigned in protest and provided the information needed to bring down one of the most powerful and entrenched political machines in the country.

From where I sit, this shows character, honesty and the courage to do what is right even if it means taking a personal hit. As much as I try, I can’t think of a single president or presidential candidate who can point to a similar demonstration of selfless commitment to the citizens. This is the type of person I want in the Oval Office, but, like Ace, I pledge to keep an open mind and will consider all others who have demonstrated these qualities.

Endorsing Ryan’s Roadmap brought Ace out of the “hell no” camp into the “maybe” zone. I hope that after looking into the aspects of this AOGCC story, the unique qualification of this act would bring him (and others) further down the road into the “supporter” category.

Posted by: jwest at December 11, 2010 11:44 AM (wBISB)

532 Echoing Dragon, JWest and others, what I like about Palin, DeMint, Pence even Rubio, is that I can feel their core, and that makes their takes and positions somewhat predictable.
Moreover, I have affinity for their core beliefs, Rule of Law, Toynebee Trust in American Character, Work, God, yada yada. Yeah, simple stuff a RINO might be able to second and not be self-deluded, but see above.
Pragmatists like Ace are a reed blowing in the wind. I've decided I don't want him behind a candidate I'd vote for November 2012 until October 2012.

Posted by: gary gulrud at December 11, 2010 12:26 PM (/g2vP)

533 Much thanks to posts 541 and 544 - these show the content of Palin's character. WOW - if we had a person like this in the White House, just think of she could accomplish. If you read these two posts you will know why the politicians on both sides are afraid of her. She will stop the corruption. She doesn't take prisoners! The corrupt onescertainly do not want to lose their money and power base.
One question - The suggestion was made that Palin should have quit the governorship when she accepted the Vice President nod. Who in the past has done this? I may be wrong, however, I don't recall any politician who quits their "day job" (for lack of a better term) while running for higher office.

Posted by: Amanda at December 11, 2010 04:24 PM (qCroN)

534 Joan of Arc 2012

Posted by: noislamocommie at December 11, 2010 04:41 PM (Uuurq)

535
"Now they've got Sarah Palin. And they're in for the surprise of their lives. She's as tough as any of their negotiators, even Martin Massey from ExxonMobil. She's going to get the best deal she can for Alaska. It's a sea change in how things are done up here." Oil Company Executive talking about oil and gas industry relations with the newly elected Gov. Palin. Quoted on Page 47 of Sarah Takes On Big Oil, Cashman and Nelson, PNA Publishing, 2008.

That quote sums up Gov. Palin's political career, from the town council to today. "They're in for the surprise of their lives."

Never entrust power to anyone not willing to surrender it.

Posted by: VADM (Red) Cuthbert Collingwood RN at December 11, 2010 04:56 PM (UL/HQ)

536 And, like all public housing projects and Indian reservations, there is
great discontent and frustration among many residents. Most Alaskans
want a private sector economy and a self sufficient producing state that
makes a net contribution to the nation, much like Texas. Most just do
not believe real change is possible. Palin and Parnell were the first
Alaska politicians to successfully build a base of support on the
premise that real change was possible. Their challenge was not
to shrink the size of the state government; but to break the iron
triangle of dependency and corruption: oil company - state government -
federal pork. Palin's popularity as governor largely came from: 1)
forcing the oil companies to pay what they actually owed the state for
the oil and gas they were extracting (ACES); 2) breaking the oil
companies' vertical monopoly on the north slope (AGIA); and 3)
eliminating oil company control of the governor's office and executive
branch (ethics reform act). None of these objectives involved anything resembling lower 48 politics, which most Alaskans do not understand or relate to.

Very well stated.

Might explain the "unprecedented" win for write in candidate Lisa MacSnortski
to some of the national TP activists, but I doubt they will listen.

You have to be able to relate conservative principals to your electorate!

It's not enough for any candidate to "be conservative" loudly and longly enough so that "real Americans" finally get the message and vote their consciences!

AK voters voted their pocketbooks (and their pantries) and overwhelmingly went for a spawn of Murkowski.

There are reasons for this shit!

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure that drop-mailing copies of the Constitution and The Federalist Papers onto each of their heads would have changed many votes!

Though, I do like the image of some hipster douchebag (working on his MA via e-Courses at Idaho State) in Juneau, AK, walking out of some hipper than thou, non-Starbucks cafe, after finishing a shift very decidedly not devoted to being a barista in any way shape or form, getting bonked!





Posted by: Crispy Deety at December 11, 2010 06:16 PM (Jb3+B)

537 Yes,
backing this plan so early shows a willingness to place her political
chips into the game and puts her in the crosshairs of any detrimental
criticism on the details, so it is a display of courage.

So, what you mean to say, is that this (endorsing the Ryan plan) is a politically risky move, one worth applauding*!

*And that every potential Republican candidate who says one nice thing about it (from this day hence) is a band-waggoning, feckless, political whore, finger in the wind, jagg-off trying to ride on St. Sarah's coattails!!!




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Posted by: lkge at December 13, 2010 07:36 PM (d1dGP)

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Posted by: lkge at December 13, 2010 07:48 PM (d1dGP)

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