Email Response to a Rightie Suggesting We Support the Ground Zero Mosque

Kat from Missouri writes:

We are in the midst of losing an important ideological battle. A battle we cannot afford to lose because it is at the very heart of this war. The enemy believes that freedom and democracy, particularly the freedom of religion, is our most egregious sin and must be destroyed. He thinks it makes us weak.

We are, at this very moment, about to rip out one of our most basic freedoms and hand it to him on a silver platter.

I believe we should step aside and let the mosque be built. Not only that, we should defend their right to do so as we have defended nothing else. If we do not, we hand the enemy a powerful weapon that he can use to bloody us with again and again. He will use it to recruit more men by pointing to it as the truth of OUR oppression of "his" people, our hypocrisy to the very idea of freedom and its real weakness. Who knows how many of our men and women in or out of uniform will pay the price for this one moment?

I cannot and I will not abide handing the enemy this weapon.

Here is the response I just wrote. And, by the way, gloves are off now, just as the MFM's and Democrats' gloves are off with 70% of America.

You felt compelled to share your opinion of how awful Americans are, Seattle Times?

Okay, here's what I'm compelled to say, in that case.


Has there been built a single Muslim museum of 9/11 atrocities with the message that this was wrong? Have there been powerful ecumenicals circulated of the Muslim religion taking any responsibillity or showing any shame for this?

I do not believe this happened in a vacuum: This happened because, as we've seen time and time again, defending terrorism, or explaining the NUANCES of murder, is far too common in Muslim circles. This creates an atmosphere of social acceptance and encouragement of terrorism.

Are most Muslims terrorists? Of course not. But, speaking among themselves, would most Muslims continue insisting this is a far more "complicated" issue than we in the West can comprehend?

I believe the answer is "Yes." And yes, I think a majority. When clerics appear on tv and refuse to forthrightly and unambiguously repudiate terrorism, preferring instead to give a qualified statement of disfavor followed by a list of reasons why the West is to blame for our own murders, I have to imagine that these clerics are not free-lancing, but instead offering the basic sentiment of their congregation.

This Ground Zero Mosque has nothing within it to *disclaim* a glorification of 9/11. There is no museum for the dead; no exhibit showing the bloody fruit of religious extremism. It permits itself to be taken two ways-- to the West, they will say "moderation" and "tolerance," but will the more excitable elements within the religion get that message? Well, I don't think so-- because there's nothing, nothing in these plans to expressly repudiate that.

The message remains open, open to differing interpretations, and I believe that's by design -- just as Imam Rauf's nuanced views of organized murder are open to differing interpretations, one designed to placate the West, the other designed to offer succor and moral uplift to killers.

Yasser Arafat did this all the time, offering one message in English for his patrons in the West, and another one for his supporters in the terror cells of Palestine.

Enough, enough.

There are dozens of bureaucrats in NYC government tasked with making sure the government is sensitive to Muslim feelings.

Is there a single person at Cordoba House tasked with monitoring the sensitivities of non-Muslims, or victims of 9/11? Did they ask any of the 9/11 families if they'd have a problem with this?

No, they went right ahead because they don't give a shit.

And on my end-- If someone so aggressively tells me to my face they don't give a shit about my sensitivities, concerns, and values, then I am not going to extend myself a micron to understand theirs.

...

Here's what I didn't write, but should have:

It would never even occur to me, or any decent person, to erect a Museum of American Achievements in Aviation in Hiroshima.

This is not a joke -- I am not saying a museum celebrating the bomb. I am saying a museum that does exactly as I said -- notes American achievements in aviation. Not the Enola Gay, but the Wright Brothers, etc.

The museum I am talking about, hypothetically, would not be baiting, nor celebratory of the bomb, in the least. It would just be a museum of American advancements in aviation.

But of course no sentient being could possibly fail to see how Japanese would take it as a direct provocation, and a nasty reminder of the bomb that fell on Hiroshima 6 August 1945.

And if I were so stupid, tasteless, and Asperger's-afflicted to have suggested such a museum in the first place, if Japanese then told me "That brings up horrifying memories," I wouldn't then arrogantly double-down and begin explaining to them how intolerant they're being, how irrational they're being, how unfair to my enthusiasm for American airpower they're being.

I would say, "Damn, I didn't think of that! I intended this as just a museum of aircraft, but I can in fact understand how you, a Hiroshima survivor, would even 50 years later have a rather more negative feeling about American airplanes in the sky that I do. Thank you for informing of this -- my bad. I'll put it up somewhere else."

Because -- why wouldn't I put it somewhere else.... unless my intent all along was in fact to remind Hiroshima residence of what happens when you defy the Big A? (A as in America.)

If I didn't have that in my heart, why would I want to visit such unwelcome and painful reminders on a population that experienced an awful tragedy 50 years ago at the hands of my fellow Americans?

Not me, mind you -- I didn't fly the plane. I didn't build the bomb. I didn't even vote for war. I wasn't even alive.

But they were Americans, thus my kin, and certainly I would not want to further traumatize the Japanese over reminding them of what my fellow Americans did to them that day.

(Which isn't to say I disagree with the decision -- it's to say I have enough respect and courtesy to not wish to remind them of the bombing every day as they walk to work.)

And because we all would understand that such a feeling is not only inevitable but perfectly reasonable, of course no American -- no nobody -- would ever dream of erecting such a museum in Hiroshima.

Such a museum is fine in and of itself-- there's a good one, I'm told, at the Smithsonian in DC.

But in Hiroshima? Utterly insensitive, inappropriate, cruel, triumphal, offensive, demeaning to the memory of the dead of Hiroshima, provocative, disrespectful, arrogant, shameless.

Mark that last word because that's the one that I think is most important. People keep saying what this debate is about, or isn't about. It isn't about this, it isn't about that. It's not about freedom of religion, it's about sharia. Etc.

What it's about is the utter shamelessness of this. The utter refusal for anyone involved in this grotesquerie to exhibit the sense of decorum and taste that even animals possess and evaluate what impact their designs may have on other people, including the direct victims of radical, triumphant Islam.

Shamelessness.

I would suggest that Cordoba House fixate itself less on selling Islam to the West and more on selling Western values of anti-terrorism, render-unto-Caesar, and tolerance to Islam.

Were they actually doing that, I would support this-- wholeheartedly!

But they're not. Next to a hole in the ground created by Muslim excess and Islamic equivocation over the rightfulness of murdering the infidel, they want to erect and advertisement -- not for peace, not for understanding, not for dialogue, not for anti-terrorism -- but just for Islam.

And they didn't bother to ask if anyone would have a problem with this, and that's because they never cared. It was never about that -- it was about, just as suspected, erecting a trimuphal tower to the might of Islam.

And they didn't ask about that, and now that people have -- since they weren't asked in private, we have to tell them in public -- they still don't care.

So don't tell me this is about tolerance and moderation and building bridges.

This is about a shameless attempt to grab up a piece of property on the cheap, a piece of property in downtown Manhattan that is only on the market at all because of the actions of some Muslims, and the shamelessness of other Muslims in plunking down cash of dubious sourcing to purchase the land at jet-fuel fire-sale prices.

Update: Russell Simmons: We Didn't Blame Christians for the First World Trace Center Bombing, Did We?

No, Russell, we didn't. Because that was Muslims too.


Atoms

We're not going to split ourselves, you know.


Teh Funny: MegaIndependent: Planning Board Approves Erecting a Ham Sandwich Beside the Grave of Mama Cass.

Thanks to TXMarko.

Posted by: Ace at 02:29 PM



Comments

1 Is this "Kat from Missouri" one of our posters? I don't recall seeing her here.

Posted by: Vic at August 19, 2010 02:34 PM (/jbAw)

2 First!

Posted by: Hedgehog at August 19, 2010 02:34 PM (oQIfB)

3
KatMo wrote that?

I don't remember her being such a fucking dunce.

Posted by: no mr. bond, i expect you to die at August 19, 2010 02:34 PM (uFokq)

4 Shit, second?

Posted by: Hedgehog at August 19, 2010 02:34 PM (oQIfB)

5 jet-fuel fire-sale prices.



Nice touch.

Posted by: Downsized Upscale at August 19, 2010 02:35 PM (IhHdM)

6 OK--my gloves are off, too.

I defy anyone...ANYONE including Kat from Missouri to defend with some sort of coherence and without historical whitewashing the following sentence:

Islam is a religion of peace.

That one sentence lies at the very heart of this issue.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at August 19, 2010 02:35 PM (NvFZs)

7 I've been thinking about building a Museum of Horsemanship and Equitation at Wounded Knee, South Dakota. And a School of Marksmanship for the children.

I'm sure no one will object, how could they?

Posted by: George Orwell at August 19, 2010 02:35 PM (AZGON)

8 I don't think that I want government to deny them the right to build the victory center. I hope that enough pressure is applied by other groups to force them to build their fucking shithole monument somewhere else.

Posted by: Hedgehog at August 19, 2010 02:36 PM (oQIfB)

9 I'm done talking to supporters of the 'outreach' mosque.
If you have to explain to someone why this is, wait let me get your words, provocative, disrespectful, arrogant, shameless, then they're a lost cause in my book. They're too dumb to function and I've could spend my time doing better things.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at August 19, 2010 02:36 PM (fFXbT)

10
By opposing this mosque we're against muslims practicing their evil backward beliefs as much as how when we oppose homosexual marriage we're opposed to homos having the right suck each others dicks in the privacy of their own homes.


Why is that so hard to understand?

Posted by: no mr. bond, i expect you to die at August 19, 2010 02:37 PM (uFokq)

11 http://tinyurl.com/3xaryl8
Try looking into it a little further and you will see the real reason they want to build it, Kat.

Posted by: Naan at August 19, 2010 02:38 PM (GARYj)

12 Why didn't you ask your email "Righty" why the Greek Orthodox church has been denied the right to rebuild.
Besides, the "Freedom of Religion" argument is a strawman. It is a zoning/land use issue. Churches are denied building venues all of the time due to things a trivial as the archetectual sensibilities of the neighbors

Posted by: RFYoung at August 19, 2010 02:38 PM (WqZCc)

13
Go Ace.

"There are dozens of bureaucrats in NYC government tasked with making sure the government is sensitive to Muslim feelings.
Is there a single person at Cordoba House tasked with monitoring the
sensitivities of non-Muslims, or victims of 9/11? Did they ask any of
the 9/11 families if they'd have a problem with this?
No, they went right ahead because they don't give a shit."

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at August 19, 2010 02:39 PM (0fzsA)

14
meanwhile...

our stupid fucking Congress has indicted Roger Clemens.


Posted by: no mr. bond, i expect you to die at August 19, 2010 02:39 PM (uFokq)

15 KatMo fell and hit her head, I think.

9-11 was an act of war. Building a mosque on or close to Ground Zero is another act of war.



Posted by: eman at August 19, 2010 02:40 PM (Nw/hR)

16 Fine job on this, Ace. Best piece I think I've read on the whole controversy.

Like so many, Kat conflates the right of the Cordoba guys to build their mosque with whether it's a really crappy, insulting, inflammatory idea. Were this at all a debate about whether they have a right to build there, this would be a very different debate.

Posted by: Pavel at August 19, 2010 02:40 PM (bRdb3)

17 Kat from Missouri writes:
am i the only one who thought of Casey Casem when i read this?

Posted by: Ben at August 19, 2010 02:40 PM (wuv1c)

18 I just ranted on this on the prior thread. Suffice to say, it is arrogant of you to expect me to be understanding when your spitting on my mother's grave.

Posted by: Penfold at August 19, 2010 02:40 PM (1PeEC)

19 Not only that, we should defend their right to do so as we have defended nothing else.

I will defend to your death your right to write silly shit on the intertubes. I mean seriously, lady. Hyperbole much?

Posted by: Downsized Upscale at August 19, 2010 02:41 PM (IhHdM)

20 our stupid fucking Congress has indicted Roger Clemens.

Did he refuse to erect a mosque in the bullpen? Hater.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 19, 2010 02:41 PM (AZGON)

21 The museum I am talking about, hypothetically, would not be baiting, nor
celebratory of the bomb, in the least. It would just be a museum of
American advancements in aviation.

Or the Twinkie Exploratorium in Harvey Milk's former city office suite.

Posted by: 13times at August 19, 2010 02:41 PM (h6XiD)

22
Ya know, some of the conservatives in the GOP take this liberal libertartian shit too far.

Jason Lewis is one of them.

Posted by: no mr. bond, i expect you to die at August 19, 2010 02:41 PM (uFokq)

23 Kat from Missouri, what a fucking dolt you are. A fucking dolt. You have no understanding whatsoever about how these guys think. They see concessions as weakness. Simple as that. Weakness invites assault. You are a brainless dolt.

Posted by: maddogg at August 19, 2010 02:42 PM (OlN4e)

24 It would never even occur to me, or any decent person, to erect a Museum of American Achievements in Aviation in Hiroshima.

A thought on this...

I think the counter argument would be that you wouldn't put a museum to American achievement in Japan because America isn't Japan. The idea is that American-Muslims aren't outsiders like Americans are in Japan.

I think there's some truth to that but....

Islam is outside the mainstream of American's religious and cultural traditions. That doesn't mean that it's not tolerated and legally protected but it's not of 'us'. Cultural minorities however always want more than that minimum, they want inclusion and respect.

We don't have to give respect. Respect is earned. You get it first and foremost by giving it. None of what this Cordoba House group has done comes close to being respectful.

They have legal rights but they don't have the right to my or anyone else's respect. They and Muslims in general won't get it until they start giving it.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 19, 2010 02:42 PM (X/Lqh)

25 Ace,
I think you should also point out that in private, not only do some muslims equivicate the nuances of terrorism, but they honestly don't believe muslims were involved in 9/11.

Posted by: Ben at August 19, 2010 02:43 PM (wuv1c)

26 our stupid fucking Congress a federal grand jury has indicted Roger Clemens.
(but yes, Congress is fucking stupid regardless)

am i the only one who thought of Casey Casem when i read this?
Perhaps, but now it's all I can think about. What's her long distance dedication? I'm thinking Survivor's The Search is Over.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at August 19, 2010 02:45 PM (fFXbT)

27 O/t: I'm sitting here balling so if you don't like crying in work, open the link when you get home. Remember, they didn't take a dime of money from the government, not a single dime. this sure helps to remind us all what really matters.

LINK

Posted by: curious at August 19, 2010 02:45 PM (p302b)

28 Not only that, we should defend their right to do so as we have defended nothing else.

Really? Abortion? Will you put your "right" to an abortion below this? How about your right to free speech, or peaceably assemble? How about your right to petition the government for redress?

No, nothing trumps defending Islamic terrorism. Rachel Corrie would be proud.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 19, 2010 02:45 PM (AZGON)

29 They and Muslims in general won't get it until they start giving it.

And there is no evidence--NONE in the 1,400 year history of the religion to indicate that they are evenly faintly interested in giving respect.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at August 19, 2010 02:45 PM (NvFZs)

30 We are supposed to acquiesce to this poke in the eye without a single whimper. Just let them do whatever and turn our backs on an act meant to insult the whole of our country.
This isn't about freedom of religion. This is about their proclaiming victory over the infidels.

Posted by: soulpile at August 19, 2010 02:46 PM (gH+Hj)

31 He will use it to recruit more men by pointing to it as the truth of OUR oppression of "his" people, our hypocrisy to the very idea of freedom and its real weakness.
Just the opposite. Hypocrisy is too nuanced for the terrorists. If we build it, they will come because they have seen our weakness. Our weakness is not tolerance of religion, in fact that is our strength, our weakness is the tendency to want to appease brutality in the name of freedom.
Yet, in America only, we eventually know when the evil has gone too far and react. We are not stepping on anyone's religious freedom by saying, "No you cannot build there, it is sacred ground to us, and the site of your terror, you may build here, here or here".
Why would lying down to their aggression make us look more free? It does not, it makes us look shallow, uncaring, distracted, and stupid

Posted by: dagny at August 19, 2010 02:46 PM (r2G/+)

32 >>>I think the counter argument would be that you wouldn't put a museum to American achievement in Japan because America isn't Japan.

Fine, Drew-- I'm equally opposed to a statue of Bull Connor in Birmingham.

Posted by: just a humble ant at August 19, 2010 02:46 PM (QbA6l)

33 And one more point: I am totally cool with the GZ mosque the moment Cordoba House says they enthusiastically endorse Salman Rushdie's constitutional rights.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at August 19, 2010 02:47 PM (NvFZs)

34 AMEN! Thanks for that post, Ace! Great job!

Posted by: Mad Monica at August 19, 2010 02:47 PM (s7UyH)

35 The question we should be posing to the world's Muslim community is really very simple: Do you UNEQUIVOCALLY repudiate this declaration of war against the United States?

And by "unequivocally" I mean in a simply worded statement that does not contain the word "but" or the word "however" or any of their synonyms.

And can you make this unequivocal repudiation not to me but to another Muslim because I know you consider lying to an infidel to be a virtue.

Posted by: Nighhawk at August 19, 2010 02:47 PM (OtQXp)

36
Wow look at the tens of thousands of moderate muslims in America who are offended by this slap in the face.

And by tens of thousands, I mean one.


Posted by: no mr. bond, i expect you to die at August 19, 2010 02:48 PM (uFokq)

37 The better analogy would be a museum to American achievement in Physics in Hiroshima.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at August 19, 2010 02:48 PM (5lL1r)

38 Kat, ever notice how SS Officer outfits are rare at costume parties?

Ever notice how Stalin dolls are not big sellers?

Ever notice how Twin Tower Action Sets tend to flop here?

Posted by: eman at August 19, 2010 02:48 PM (Nw/hR)

39 Not only that, we should defend their right to do so as we have defended nothing else.

Yeah. How about defending my right to *be alive* in Mecca first? How about that?

Posted by: alexthechick at August 19, 2010 02:48 PM (eRjGt)

40 when a religion is founded by a muderous warlord with a taste for pre-teen girls you'll excuse me if I have some doubts that the religion he founded is actually a religion of peace ...
when you can find the concept of jihad, which comes from the Koran, in the writings of Christians or Hindu or Buddists let me know ... then I'll think of all religions on an equal footing ...

Posted by: Jeff at August 19, 2010 02:48 PM (A3tpD)

41 Further, Drew, if I bought, legally, the land in Japan, I would be as any other property owner in Japan, and able to do with it as I pleased.

(I assume Japan is relatively free in terms of property ownership, which i think is a fair assumption. There would be little legally they could do-- except apply pressure from the state to stop me and harass me at every turn... somewhat illegally, maybe, but what the hell would I be doing buiding such a grotesque museum in Hiroshima?)

Posted by: just a humble ant at August 19, 2010 02:49 PM (QbA6l)

42 Excellent response Ace.



Also a question - is there any way you can make certain threads sticky - to show up permanently on a sidebar or something similar? For easy access.

This post along with the Barney Frank/Fannie Mae timeline thread are pure gold - and not to be lost.

Call it a "Best of Ace" or something similar.

Posted by: ghost707 at August 19, 2010 02:49 PM (BNk7G)

43 I don't disagree with your basic point--and I oppose that f-ing mosque as much as anyone--but I have to say at least a few words in favor of the "congregation" as you call it. And you're mostly right about that, as well. But yet...

I've been living among Moslems for the better part of 15 years, and it's hard to describe what it is like for many, or even most. Imagine a world where at the moment of your birth, "Islam" is placed as your official religion on your ID card, often against your parents' wishes. In most places it is simply impossible to change that designation, and in those countries where you can, you immediately open yourself and your family up to reprisals from the angry guys with the disgusting untrimmed beards.

There are literally millions of converts to Christianity every year in the Middle East, including people I know--and I can't even say any more than that, for fear of giving away too much of their identity--but all done in almost absolute secrecy.

And this lack of personal choice--a lack due to the real threat of violence--is not just in the case of religion. It manifests itself in the choice of jobs, personal relationships, and almost every other part of life. And not only is choice taken away, but the very concept of choice is never even taught, which is worse. For most Moslems, the idea that they should be able to choose their own lifestyle would never even occur to them, due to generations of brain-washing. And MEMRI does a very good job of exposing the "Science" and "Education" here in the Middle East, but, again, it's almost impossible to truly understand what it does do their children, as well as how many parents object to the kind of indoctrination and ignorance forced upon their children, but who literally have no choice. There are private schools, many with Western themes--The Modern English School and Modern American School here in Amman, for example--but they are prohibitively expensive for most people, and their curriculum bears absolutely no resemblance to a Western curriculum. It's marginally less Islamic than a full-blown Madrassa, but not by much. I could tell you horror stories about what passes for education here--Arabs built the pyramids, for example--but that would take hours.

It is almost impossible for a Westerner to truly understand this, no matter how long one lives here. It is only possible to be disgusted by the culture and by the religion, and actually feel sorry for individuals forced to live here. That's why it's kind of disingenuous to ask "moderate" Moslems in the Middle East to speak out against terrorist attacks. How many of us would speak out against Obama, even anonymously on the internet, if we had to face the real prospect of someone killing us and/or our families?

Posted by: MikeinAmman at August 19, 2010 02:50 PM (elcpe)

44 Oh I had a long discussion at Slate with a particularly obnoxious and condescending liberal mosque defender (i.e., a prime candidate for Seattle Times editorial writer). His argument was, basically, there is no possible argument against the mosque that doesn't rely on bigotry. None whatsoever. That is the mindset here. If you try to present a non-bigoted argument, it becomes "secret code" for "I hate Muslims". The funniest part of the whole thing is that in their rush to denounce anti-Muslim bigotry, they engage in their own form of bigotry by stereotyping and generalizing all of the mosque opponents as toothless troglodyte bigots.

Posted by: chemjeff at August 19, 2010 02:50 PM (Pm5H8)

45 I think Kat the lame-ass should come on here and set us straight. Come on, we really need a good ass whuppin.....

Posted by: maddogg at August 19, 2010 02:50 PM (OlN4e)

46 As a resident of Pennsylvania, where the 'crescent of embrace' was approved as a Flight 93 memorial - only to eventually be modified into a circle after much public outcry and debate - I say to all - don't back down. Don't give an inch.

This is no doubt Saudi money going to fund this obomination. They wish to, and have successfully exported their ideology around the planet. Only to bring misery.

Posted by: Downsized Upscale at August 19, 2010 02:50 PM (IhHdM)

47 According to Sir Charles Icarus Johnson who runs a National Security blog according to Washington Post reporter Michelle Boorstein the only threat to our national security is Geller and Spencer and Gingrich is being watched

Posted by: Mike W at August 19, 2010 02:50 PM (P0YbT)

48
when you can find the concept of jihad, which
comes from the Koran, in the writings of Christians or Hindu or
Buddists let me know ... then I'll think of all religions on an equal
footing ...



Posted by: Jeff at August 19, 2010 02:48 PM (A3tpD)
When you can find the concept of love in the koran then I'll accept islam as a religion on equal footing with all others.

Posted by: Nighhawk at August 19, 2010 02:50 PM (OtQXp)

49 Go ahead defend this Kat. I will say I oppose it.

Now what?

Posted by: Mr Pink at August 19, 2010 02:51 PM (yg/4o)

50 Fine, Drew-- I'm equally opposed to a statue of Bull Connor in Birmingham.

Ace (I presume, sock not withstanding)...

I get that the specific example isn't that important to your argument but I think it's a happy accident that illuminates the bigger issue of where Islam fits in America.

I really don't like the idea that it's beyond the pale to note that Islam is 'the other' in the American context. While Muslims are due somethings as a matter of course, it's up to them to meet the majority of Americans at least half way.

I haven't seen a Muslim leader, an MFMer or a Democrat note that. It's too much to ask the poor dear Muslims to do something but they are all about demanding a whole hell of a lot from everyone else.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 19, 2010 02:51 PM (X/Lqh)

51 my simple response is I don't see why we have to accept or tolerate Islam.

The libs only like it because it's a common enemy of the united states and traditional western civ values.

Posted by: neck armor at August 19, 2010 02:52 PM (QxSug)

52 I'm a Hot Air refugee. Glad to be here.
Just a question for Ace. I agree with all of your sentiments. However, there are still people like that asshole Charles Johnson, that claims we are racists for opposing this victory mosque. In fact, people like him smear the opposition by calling us the bigot brigade. I think you should address that more forcefully.

Posted by: Andy in Agoura Hills at August 19, 2010 02:52 PM (W1mrP)

53 Re indicting Roger Clemans. For once I would like to see someone tell congress to stick their subpoena up their ass and fight it in court.

The last time I looked congress was the legislative branch and I don't see power of the court system listed anywhere in my copy of the Constitution.

But once there and they take the oath then lying is perjury. You can only do that if you are a Democrat.

Posted by: Vic at August 19, 2010 02:52 PM (/jbAw)

54

You know what we need to do?

Everyone make a sign depicting Mohammed and stand in front of your local mosque. All across America we'll see how the local police and muslims respect your 1st Amendment rights.

Posted by: no mr. bond, i expect you to die at August 19, 2010 02:52 PM (uFokq)

55 see the update, by the way; it's funny/hearbreaking/emblamatic.

Posted by: just a humble ant at August 19, 2010 02:53 PM (QbA6l)

56 As a resident of Pennsylvania, where the 'crescent of embrace' was approved as a Flight 93 memorial - only to eventually be modified into a circle after much public outcry and debate - I say to all - don't back down. Don't give an inch.This is no doubt Saudi money going to fund this obomination. They wish to, and have successfully exported their ideology around the planet. Only to bring misery.
oh, i was soooo pissed about that.
i'm only about 2 hours away and have been there a few times. They should just leave it as a open field as a monument.
The one good thing that should come from this victory mosque issue, is people need to start asking the question why the fuck haven't we rebuilt the god damn twin towers yet? it's been 9 freaking years.

Posted by: Ben at August 19, 2010 02:53 PM (wuv1c)

57 The physics museum in Hiroshima is less offensive because what it brings to mind, the bomb, was dropped in response to their aggression. What was it we did to provoke 9-11? I'm sure Obama knows.

Posted by: dagny at August 19, 2010 02:53 PM (r2G/+)

58 Psst, Salman Rushdie is a British national; his rights aren't covered by the US Constitution.
You'll want to refer to his American publishers if you don't want to be laughed at.

Posted by: Wicket Niemoller at August 19, 2010 02:53 PM (9Sbz+)

59 I think by "ecumenicals" you meant "encyclicals."

Posted by: Leo Ladenson at August 19, 2010 02:53 PM (mAm+G)

60 Hey Kat can you be persuaded to be against this mosque if I sent you a 200 check from the VRWC?

Posted by: SomeSay the Strawmarian at August 19, 2010 02:53 PM (yg/4o)

61 killing/denouncing terrorists only creates more terrorists...

Posted by: Circular Jerking at August 19, 2010 02:54 PM (wuv1c)

62 I part ways with you in one respect, Ace. I think they cared - cared enough to take a little spiteful pleasure in the affair.

Posted by: SarahW at August 19, 2010 02:54 PM (Z4T49)

63 There's the shamelessness of it all, and then there's the "plant your flag on the ashes and graves of your enemy" of it all. Both are repugnant.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at August 19, 2010 02:54 PM (swuwV)

64 For Kat (and liberals) history begins when they wake up each morning.

You see Kat....the headchoppers have been roaming the globe targeting women and children in marketplaces for over 30 years, with impunity.

And US citizens have lived peacefully with Muslims for 30 years. They know they have nothing to fear from us, if we were calm on 9/12, and calm for the last 10 years...they know that Americans are no threat to them or their mosques.

This provocation at GZ is a deliberate attempt to desecrate our war dead....they started this......not us.


Posted by: pam at August 19, 2010 02:54 PM (h8R9p)

65 I'm thinking we could have a Mannlicher-Carcano Permanent Exhibit of Rifles in Hyannis Port. And a Wax Museum of Presidential Dalliance, featuring a 25-foot statue of Marilyn Monroe, with accompanying replicas of pharmaceutical items. On Wednesdays hookers get in free.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 19, 2010 02:54 PM (AZGON)

66 Great post. The bit about Asperger's is off target. Not offensive, just wrong. Asperger's doesn't cause the behavior you attribute to it.

Posted by: John Galt at August 19, 2010 02:54 PM (F/4zf)

67
thanks for the correction up there.

yeah, Clemens is indicted for lying to the Liars in Congress who had no business investigating him in the first place.

I give no shit about Roger Clemens, but I do give a shit about how Congress holds hearings on fucking baseball players.

Posted by: no mr. bond, i expect you to die at August 19, 2010 02:55 PM (uFokq)

68 In most places it is simply impossible to change that designation, and in
those countries where you can, you immediately open yourself and your
family up to reprisals from the angry guys with the disgusting untrimmed
beards.
Can someone explain to me why I'm not allowed to hate people who do that? And I do mean hate, hatred with the burning of 10,000 suns. Why am I not supposed to hate those who want to kill me? Seriously, why not? How are many, if not most, of the tenets of Wahhabi Islam not hateful to decent human beings? Why am I not supposed to hate those who stone women for adultery? Why should I not hate those who hang gays? Why should I not hate those who blow up men and women and children? Why not? If that is not worthy of hate, then can anyone tell me what is?

Posted by: alexthechick at August 19, 2010 02:55 PM (eRjGt)

69 I'm sitting here balling so if you don't like crying in work

I got fired for balling the cleaning woman at work.

Perhaps you meant bawling?

Posted by: George Costanza at August 19, 2010 02:55 PM (IhHdM)

70
What she is saying is - If we don't let Muslims degrade the memories of the victims of 9/11 - Muslims win?

ah - No. Wrong Kat.

Posted by: Lemon Kitten at August 19, 2010 02:56 PM (0fzsA)

71 I want to build a statue of Sirhan Sirhan shaking Lee Harvey Oswald's hand, with this logo at the base, "Good Job, Bro!" And then I want to put it up on some private property right next to a major road in Hyannisport, Mass.

Shouldn't every good liberal jump to support my right to do that? Won't they prove they're better than me by doing nothing to oppose it?

Posted by: Tom Servo at August 19, 2010 02:56 PM (I6tMU)

72 Did we blame the Germans for the attack on Pearl Harbor? Hell no!

Bigots.

Posted by: Russell Simmons at August 19, 2010 02:56 PM (xO+6C)

73 If you build it, the drones will come. Without a flight plan.

Posted by: Something Wicked This Way Comes... at August 19, 2010 02:56 PM (GOG1H)

74 triumphal is a good label for this thing.

Posted by: Jean at August 19, 2010 02:56 PM (LqcF2)

75 I found this brilliant analogy on a blog of one of the commenters here.

MegaIndependent, you rock!!


Posted by: TXMarko at August 19, 2010 02:56 PM (lQvna)

76 Posted by: George Costanza at August 19, 2010 02:55 PM (IhHdM)

OMG thank you for the laugh....I guess it's hard to see through the tears sometimes.....

Posted by: curious at August 19, 2010 02:57 PM (p302b)

77 thanks for the correction up there.

yeah, Clemens is indicted for lying to the Liars in Congress who had no business investigating him in the first place.

I give no shit about Roger Clemens, but I do give a shit about how Congress holds hearings on fucking baseball players.
Posted by: no mr. bond, i expect you to die at August 19, 2010 02:55 PM (uFokq)

Why don't we indict the assholes at the CIA who said the Iranians were NOT trying to build a bomb?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 19, 2010 02:57 PM (0GFWk)

78 off topic, but delicious.
The left has finally found the chink in the GOP's armor.
http://tinyurl.com/29mjblz
A lefty friend says we're ripping ourselves apart.
Sweet, sweet liberal cocoon.

Posted by: Hulk at August 19, 2010 02:57 PM (QxSug)

79 I defy anyone...ANYONE including Kat from Missouri
to defend with some sort of coherence and without historical
whitewashing the following sentence:Islam is a religion of peace.That one sentence lies at the very heart of this issue.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at August 19, 2010 02:35 PM (NvFZs)

Yep and Amen. That "Islam is a religion of peace" is the eye of utter bullshit at the core of this whole hurricane. Anyone who has any knowledge of the history of Islam or its core teachings and still claims that it's all about peace...well, they are either a liar or a useful-idiot imbecile. It's very simple; the idea of Islam as a force for peace and harmony in the world is as laughable on its face as someone claiming that the sun rises in the west, the sky is usually a bright shade of magenta, or the earth is flat and made of pancake batter. And yet we have a endless parade of so-called leaders, journalists and other pseudo-intellectual crap-suckers calling anyone who says otherwise a bigot.Well, screw them. If anything good comes out of this present nonsense, it'll be all of the dhimmis irrevocably tearing off their masks.

Posted by: Chainsaw Chimp at August 19, 2010 02:57 PM (pLTLS)

80 Who is Kat from Mo?

Posted by: rdbrewer at August 19, 2010 02:58 PM (t0jpM)

81 Can Russell Simmons be any more of a tool?

Posted by: Captain Hate at August 19, 2010 02:58 PM (EPgc2)

82 this cluster fuck just took a turn for the worse.
I think the NY Governor just offered the developers public land elsewhere to build the mosque.
someone needs to explain to the governor how that whole "public land and religion" thing work.

Posted by: Ben at August 19, 2010 02:59 PM (wuv1c)

83 IT HAS BEGUN:


The Associated Press, one of world's most powerful news organizations,
issued a memo today advising staff to avoid the phrase "Ground Zero
mosque."

Posted by: pam at August 19, 2010 02:59 PM (h8R9p)

84 I got fired for balling the cleaning woman at work.Perhaps you meant bawling?
Posted by: George Costanza at August 19, 2010 02:55 PM (IhHdM)
Just curious, George. Was she worth it?

Posted by: maddogg at August 19, 2010 02:59 PM (OlN4e)

85 27
O/t: I'm sitting here balling so if you don't like crying in work,
open the link when you get home. Remember, they didn't take a dime of
money from the government, not a single dime. this sure helps to remind
us all what really matters.LINK

wow curious that's an amazing ad, it made me a little misty-eyed too

Posted by: chemjeff at August 19, 2010 02:59 PM (Pm5H8)

86
If we don't bring this huge wooden horse into Troy, the Greeks have won. We must accept their gift or all our values are worthless.

Posted by: Kat of Troy at August 19, 2010 03:00 PM (rMMMP)

87 Well said, Ace. Continuing with the Japanese theme: This is not the Ground Zero Mosque, it is the Ground Zero Bukkake, and America is the helpless young Japanese girl.

Posted by: Usful Ijit at August 19, 2010 03:00 PM (M/psB)

88
I wonder if KatMo and Obama also agree with the ACLU and think nambla has the right to produce and view their kiddie prOn?

After all, it's their 1st Amendment right, right?

Posted by: no mr. bond, i expect you to die at August 19, 2010 03:00 PM (uFokq)

89 The choice of GZ for this mosque was clearly intended to cause insult. This is nothing short of an act of social terrorism.
Dialog, my ass.

Posted by: PHenry at August 19, 2010 03:00 PM (ZCbq9)

90 The only Congressional hearings we need are on Members of Congress.
Everything else is a dog pony show.

Posted by: laceyunderalls at August 19, 2010 03:00 PM (fFXbT)

91 I wonder how many times people have to be told the issue isn't one of religious freedom; it's about decency and sensitivity to those who suffered the most on 9-11.
Something stupid this way comes, and comes, and comes, and...

Posted by: rdbrewer at August 19, 2010 03:00 PM (t0jpM)

92 [affects Andy Bernard voice]
Nailed it!

Posted by: logprof at August 19, 2010 03:01 PM (CE2wR)

93 >>> Not offensive, just wrong. Asperger's doesn't cause the behavior you attribute to it.

I thought Asperger's caused an inability to think about others and thus rude behavior...?

Posted by: just a humble ant at August 19, 2010 03:01 PM (QbA6l)

94 @87

Well played.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 19, 2010 03:01 PM (AZGON)

95 Spot on.

Inasmuch as I'm also from Missouri, I move we also proceed to change the name of that town on the Mississippi River named for Louis IX, a guy who made is rep during the Middle Ages being insensitive to Islamic sensibilities.

I would note, I know of at least one parochial middle school in my area which changed the name of its mascot. The former name? "Crusader." I've yet to get an official explanation for the change, but I wonder how many other parochial schools are getting letters along the lines of "nice Christian school you've got there. It would be a shame if something happened to it.

Posted by: R. Sherman at August 19, 2010 03:01 PM (rwcvo)

96 Kat Mo,

get thee to a library.

Posted by: eman at August 19, 2010 03:01 PM (Nw/hR)

97 Ace, you're fucking awesome.

Posted by: Heralder at August 19, 2010 03:01 PM (Fnlc9)

98 O/t: I'm sitting here balling so if you don't
like crying in work, open the link when you get home. Remember, they
didn't take a dime of money from the government, not a single dime.
this sure helps to remind us all what really matters.

LINK
Posted
by: curious
---
This reminds me of those Bud commercials.

I'm at home so I can be all misty eyed and not be embarrassed. And it will make you misty eyed.


Posted by: Retread at August 19, 2010 03:01 PM (8qItv)

99 Moslems all love me.

Posted by: the strong horse at August 19, 2010 03:02 PM (xmEXV)

100 Dialog, my ass.
Look! There's the logo for Gutfield's bar.

Posted by: alexthechick at August 19, 2010 03:03 PM (eRjGt)

101 Moslems all love me.
Posted by: the strong horse

Allah, how I long to make love to this beast.

Posted by: The Democrat Donkey at August 19, 2010 03:03 PM (AZGON)

102 Convolute much, Kat?

Posted by: t-bird at August 19, 2010 03:04 PM (FcR7P)

103 14
meanwhile...our stupid fucking Congress has indicted Roger Clemens.

If this doesn't help the economy, what on earth will?

Posted by: Lemmiwinks at August 19, 2010 03:04 PM (IqfKc)

104 Wow, that was a good response.

I am humbled...

Posted by: Fuzzlenutter at August 19, 2010 03:04 PM (XeZga)

105 How about this?

It's an affront, an insult, and I don't support it. I don't know if I have the power to stop it but I will express my displeasure with it.

Posted by: joeindc44 at August 19, 2010 03:04 PM (QxSug)

106 "Dialog, my ass."

Look! There's the logo for Gutfield's bar.

You may have a career in advertising, my dear.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 19, 2010 03:04 PM (AZGON)

107 If murdering innocents is part of practicing your religon, go practice it somewhere else, like where you came from.

Go pray in traffic.

Posted by: Pawn at August 19, 2010 03:04 PM (emF0q)

108 Aspergers is on the mild side of the autistic spectrum. Some aren't so bad off.
Heh, it used to be called "the professors' disease," becauseof the frequency of library-dwelling, narrowly interested, son-of-flubber professors who have it.

Posted by: rdbrewer at August 19, 2010 03:04 PM (t0jpM)

109 Fox news is reporting that officials are searching a grounded plane as threats were made against American Airlines.

got this from the crawl....now I'm putting on the sound

Posted by: curious at August 19, 2010 03:05 PM (p302b)

110 Quite honestly, hate is the only sane response to Islam as a whole. Well, that, and contempt and disgust. All I'm saying is that Islam eats its own as well as others, and there are a lot of victims of Islam here in the Middle East as well, who do not deserve our hatred. Or contempt. Or disgust. They are doing the best they can under circumstances that basically amount to a lifetime slavery--and I'm not sure there's anything more tragic than a slave who has been conditioned to believe that he or she deserves that slavery. The Middle East--and Islam--is a dictatorship over the many by a few, and the many are, in a lot of cases, our allies, whether we know this or not. Again, I can give you a ton of anecdotal evidence from my 15 years of living in this region.

Posted by: MikeinAmman at August 19, 2010 03:05 PM (elcpe)

111
Why hasn't a federal grand jury indicted Elena Kagan and Sonia Sotomayor mccheese for making false statements to Congress?


Posted by: no mr. bond, i expect you to die at August 19, 2010 03:05 PM (uFokq)

112 Nothing to see here, no victory monument or anything.
"He (the developer) is sticking with
his plans to erect Park51, a 13-story center and prayer space in Lower
Manhattan. He likens the project to a YMCA or Jewish Community Center,
with programs open to all residents of all faiths. "A landmark,
an iconic building that will have people come and visit it from around
the world,” said El-Gamal as to what he imagines. “This looks like it is
going to be the most famous community center in the world.""
I wonder what religion these people will be practicing and when they come from all over the world to see an "iconic' "community center".

Posted by: DrewM. at August 19, 2010 03:06 PM (X/Lqh)

113 Fox news is reporting that officials are searching a grounded plane as threats were made against American Airlines.

got this from the crawl....now I'm putting on the sound
Posted by: curious at August 19, 2010 03:05 PM (p302b)

Probably that Jet Blue Guy?

Posted by: Nevergiveup at August 19, 2010 03:06 PM (0GFWk)

114 Despite the inevitable vacillation of our "betters" in the Government, media, and academia - someone needs to make it clear to Islamic world that we will never submit. 51ParkPlace is as good a place to start - hallowed ground makes a good hill to die on.

Posted by: Jean at August 19, 2010 03:07 PM (LqcF2)

115 Posted by: MikeinAmman at August 19, 2010 02:50 PM (elcpe)
Out STANDING Post. Until you have been in their culture for a period of time, you cannot understand how pervasive the Religious/Cultural Programing is... they are literally steeped in it from birth... and trained in it in school, and the home, and the Church...
There have been other cultures which have been this all encompasing in their philosophy... the Spartans come to mind... but that type of socio religious programing is not somthing the West is prepared to either understand, or combat.
The Japenese in WWII were able to get people to Kamikaze due to the same type of lifelong Social/Reiligious programing... and the only way we wiped out that culture, was to wipe out the Religion, and training, which fostered it.

Posted by: Romeo13 at August 19, 2010 03:07 PM (H+oXM)

116 84
IT HAS BEGUN:The Associated Press, one of world's most powerful news organizations,
issued a memo today advising staff to avoid the phrase "Ground Zero
mosque."

Yes, it should now be referred to as GZM, or jism for short.

Posted by: Lemmiwinks at August 19, 2010 03:08 PM (IqfKc)

117 I cannot and I will not abide handing the enemy this weapon.
Heh. There is just sooooo much stoopid in that one sentence. I'll meet you in the park at sunup. Overcooked spaghetti at 2 yards......

Posted by: maddogg at August 19, 2010 03:08 PM (OlN4e)

118 Posted by: Retread at August 19, 2010 03:01 PM (8qItv)

they seemed to capture the essence of America in that one little commercial.

Originally I got it in an email. At first it was the know conservative republican types who sent it to me but now it's starting to be the lib/lefty types too.....fascinating that...

Posted by: curious at August 19, 2010 03:09 PM (p302b)

119 Here's the analogy I posted on another site this morning:
This is like saying to your neighbor, "Gee, I'm sorry my uncle ran over your kids last month. Why don't you stop by our family reunion next door, where we'll be toasting ol' uncle hit and run on the spot your boy died?"And then yelling "freedom of assembly!" when he gets upset.

Posted by: Randy at August 19, 2010 03:09 PM (zQKSr)

120 This argument is really nothing new, we've been talking about how muslims use the political correctness of America and other western countries against them since 9-11, it's where the phrase "if you don't do *insert whatever muslims are demanding here* the terrorists have already won" came from. It seems to me you really have to ignore reality to come to the conclusion that being against a mosque on ground zero is curtailing religious fredom, they can build it somewhere else. Some people just won't be happy till all women are walking around in burquas and beheadings are the nightly entertainment on MSNBC.

Posted by: Martha Stewart's left nipple at August 19, 2010 03:09 PM (9e8Ti)

121 The response you didn't write was spot on. They are pushing forward and don't give a dam about anything else.
If it gets approved , I'd like to see itnot getbuilt because they can't get materials or labor. Or things keep going wrong or get knocked down "by accident"...Tony Sprano style.

Posted by: Teleprompter at August 19, 2010 03:09 PM (NbmYl)

122
Face it. Islam is a religion of conquest and in its present form is an Enemy of the USA.

All else is smoke and mirrors.



Posted by: eman at August 19, 2010 03:09 PM (Nw/hR)

123 They will do this.

Because they do not care.

Because our feelings, our sensitivities, are irrelevant.

They will use the freedom of a Western philosophy that they largely treat with disdain as a justification to do the shameless, and demand our tolerance.

But one good thing will hopefully come out of this. Once you bite that apple, and proclaim proudly, "I do not care whom is hurt, or whom I insult, it is my RIGHT!" you cannot go back. You proudly proclaim that you have the *right* to be as big an a**hole as you want and gosh darn it you are going to do it, suddenly when people treat you rudely you have no argument, no appeal to sensibility and shame.

Because tomorrow, the next day and the next, more of those little minor grievances to Islam, that really amount to nothing, that many in the religion wail about without end, they will occur.

Denial of official recognition of Sharia law.
Artist renderings like Draw Mohammad day.
Literature like the Satanic Verses.
Comedy like episode 201.

And when you wail, and cry about the sanctity of your religious beliefs and make that appeal for sensitivity. An intemperate mass will point at that building and say "Fuck You!"

For once you have given up your shame, you cannot demand it from others. So go ahead, bite that apple, and watch your perfect little garden disintegrate; open that box, and loose the trappings of a free society upon yourself in earnest for the first time.

Who's with me in asking, that Comedy Central, in order to promote tolerant and peaceful outreach to the Muslim community, re-air episode 201 without censorship? I'm in the mood for a good laugh at Islam's expense right about now.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 19, 2010 03:10 PM (0q2P7)

124 That was bueno. I think thatthis might finally be the proverbial straw. As a certain book says, pride comes before the fall and this time they went waytoo far.

Posted by: ErikW at August 19, 2010 03:10 PM (Epd0E)

125 The Orwell Press, one of world's most powerful blog commenter organizations, issued a memo today advising staff to avoid the phrase "Mainstream Media." Preferred style will be "Falafel-scarfing Submission Weasels."

Posted by: George Orwell at August 19, 2010 03:10 PM (AZGON)

126 "Dialog, my ass."





Look! There's the logo for Gutfield's bar.





You may have a career in advertising, my dear.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 19, 2010 03:04 PM (AZGON)
I'm not sure that you want the comma there.

Posted by: Ebola al Mighty in Martha's Vineyard at August 19, 2010 03:11 PM (xxgag)

127 Dear Kat:

Ummm... 'O' Hell No...

Posted by: richard mcenroe at August 19, 2010 03:11 PM (0rUbC)

128 Did we blame the Visigoths when they sacked Pearl Harbor?

HELL NO, and we aren't going to start doing so now!

Posted by: Unclefacts, AoSHQ Pro Debate Team, Bacon Raconteur at August 19, 2010 03:11 PM (eCAn3)

129 You know what America is? We are the nerd in middle school who just wants to be left alone. We're the business man on the subway who puts up with the taunting in hopes that that is exactly where it will end. We are the guy in the UFC that looks like an accountant. That middle schooler? Genetic freak. Strong as an ox, fast as lightening. Business guy? Played middle line backer on his college football team. Did some boxing in the Marine Corps. UFC accountant? Turns out he's the biggest badass in the cage. These guys project weakness to some degree or another but they are hardly weak. Quite the opposite in fact. They do their opponents no favors by seeming to be.
We are projecting weakness to the Islamic world at just the wrong time. As Iraq is declared a victory, we are afforded a barometer for the intensity of the global jihad. If Iraq heats up, the islamist passion. If Iraqi violence slowly winds down, we have won globally and now are just mopping up. In the midst of that, we allow this snub, this insult, this abomination to be built? We are projecting weakness and weakness is provocative.
If there is a serious response to our provocation, we may well not only react but like the average seeming guys in my analogy, we may opt for overkill.

Posted by: kidney at August 19, 2010 03:11 PM (ENRGu)

130 How about this argument: We've now been told relentlessly that the war in Iraq and Gitmo and, heck, the whole W. administration were provocative recruiting tools for jihadis, and that therefore we shouldn't continue those things.

Well, I would think that allowing a mosque at Ground Zero would also be a great recruiting tool. The message to jihadi wannabes is: attack and destroy a major Western site and from the ashes a mosque will spring. Hell, that's not just tempting, that's practically an invitation.

Posted by: Leo Ladenson at August 19, 2010 03:12 PM (mAm+G)

131 Right now, knowing not enough about the dude that is trying to put this
together, I think he did this not to provoke, but because he knew he
could get funding because others want to provoke. This is the same
thing, only harder to prove and more insidious. It is the motivation
behind much on the left ("i am scientist, not ideologue, but I research
bristle cone pine in Siberia because I know they have decreased and will
support evidence of global warming" for example. maybe the guy thinks he is a scientist, but his at best a useful idiot)



And that's the point. fighting the construction is not handing them a weapon, but
letting them build it is. We are at war with a slice of the Muslim
world. In any war the propaganda victories are as important as the real
victories. If that slice (no matter how small) points to the mosque and
says "look, we are winning," then we have handed them a victory.



Like wise, Drew posted earlier that he does not care if Obama is a
Muslim. Well, in many regards I do not either, but in one sense it
matters. If he is, and he shows this to the enemy (he mostly already
has) then we are handing them a victory. In compound in pakistan
someone will say "look, we are winning. Even their president is one of
us. Soon we will take over the world. Throw away your western dreams as
before long the West will be enslaved by us."

Posted by: nine coconuts at August 19, 2010 03:12 PM (DHNp4)

132 All I'm saying is that Islam eats its own as well as others, and there
are a lot of victims of Islam here in the Middle East as well, who do
not deserve our hatred. Or contempt. Or disgust.
Yes, there are and that's one of the things that fills me with contempt and disgust at the MFM and most of the supposed human rights organizations. Where are the marches and telethons and lapel ribbons for those who merely seek to exercise freedom of religion and cannot? What happened to the plight of Afghan women as a rallying cry for feminists? I have nothing but sheer contempt for those NGOs who seek to claim the moral high ground but who refuse to be honest about what life is like in many Middle Eastern or other officially Islamic countries.

Posted by: alexthechick at August 19, 2010 03:12 PM (eRjGt)

133 Somewhere in the distance I hear the cry "uncle!""mercy!"

Just read a breaking story that says this Mosque only has 18k in funding and donations. Some desperate MFM attempt to get us to shut up. That happens often when you take an unpopular position and get it shoved up your ass.

I ain't your uncle and mercy? Fresh out.

Posted by: Something Wicked This Way Comes... at August 19, 2010 03:12 PM (GOG1H)

134 Outstanding Ace.

Posted by: Valiant at August 19, 2010 03:13 PM (UKSRV)

135 For those unfamiliar with Kat from MO-

She was a poster here for a while. She is neither stupid nor blind, just misinformed on this one. Kat, I love you, but I really don't think your understanding of Islam takes taquiyya (misinformation) and fasad-fil-Ardh (mischief) into account.

The Koran is a book of war- nothing more, nothing less. I cannot speak from personal experience like our friend from Amman here, so I'll leave it to him.

Regrettably, we may be faced with a similar choice to that which we had at the end of World War II- in order to defeat a religion that is for all intents and purposes a death cult, we may have to shake it to its foundations and force it to examine itself. That required a great loss of life in Japan to accomplish that.

Posted by: tmi3rd at August 19, 2010 03:13 PM (WRtsc)

136 I don't comment here (till now), but I read AoS every day. You are America. Unbowed, uncowed, dirty, dangerous, and mean as junk yard dogs (unless of course a child needs rescued, a damsel in distress needs help, or a man down on his luck needs a hand). Once I fought for you, now all I can do is applaud from the side lines. Tell it, brother, tell it. It's about time some one tried to understand us for a change. If they don't, then f**k them!!!

Posted by: emrys at August 19, 2010 03:14 PM (msqTW)

137 "97 How many of us would speak out against Obama, even anonymously on the internet, if we had to face the real prospect of someone killing us and/or our families?
Posted by: MikeinAmman at August 19, 2010 02:50 PM"

I already have, twice, in the Towers. That's WHY I'm out on the street every week...

Posted by: richard mcenroe at August 19, 2010 03:14 PM (0rUbC)

138 Kat from Missouri seems to suffer under the idea that we are doomed no matter what. If we fight back we just piss the terrorists off more and if we don't fight back they'll just keep taking more.

That kind of thinking means the only thing we should be doing is discussing the terms of surrender we'll ask for.

Pass.

Posted by: DrewM. at August 19, 2010 03:14 PM (X/Lqh)

139 The other day one of the talk show guys was talking about mayor mike and saying that he thinks mayor mike has gone all in on this because he thinks if he goes all in on this "they won't hit us again". (meaning his city, NYC). the show host finally said this after caller after caller was really really angry about this whole thing.

Posted by: curious at August 19, 2010 03:14 PM (p302b)

140 OT: No, Congress did not indict Roger Clemens. The US Attorney for the District of Columbia indicted him. Because there apparently are not enough federal crimes occurring in DC to occupy the USADofC's office's time.

Posted by: Simon Oliver Lockwood at August 19, 2010 03:14 PM (VE5vJ)

141 Palestinian Students Glorify Terrorism with Exhibit in Nablus

Posted by: Islam: Religion of Peace at August 19, 2010 03:15 PM (Lz//J)

142 I posted this over on FA.
Saying that the Constitution should allow Islam is like saying Rev Johnson should allow Ted Bundy to spend the night in the bedroom with his daughters. It is the definition of insanity to allow those that wish to destroy you into your home.
Bill of Rights under Islam
1 ) denied
4 ) denied
5 ) denied
6 ) denied
7 ) denied
8 ) denied
13) denied
14) denied
15) denied
19) denied
Every Individual Right protected under our Constitution is not allowed under Islam. Just because we are a free and open society/country does not mean that those that wish to destroy us should be free to do so.
Every scientific advance made by the Persians was made before Islam was imposed upon them. Every place that Islam has flourished, science and society has stagnated and now that they have money and a means, they wish to infect the rest of the world. To wish that on the future children of any country is unconscionable. They do not want to be Americans they want us to be Muslims.
I am NOT a racist and I am not a xxxx-phobe, I am a staunch defender of freedom and freedom does not flourish or survive where Islam or socialism reins.

Posted by: Rob in Katy at August 19, 2010 03:16 PM (gdGJ1)

143 Uh, no disrespect (OK, not much) intended, but WTF?

Who is Kat from Missouri - and how do we know that said unknown is a right-winger, and what does the Seattle Times have to do with the price of tea in China?

Posted by: Gerry at August 19, 2010 03:16 PM (81BBf)

144 The Associated Press, one of world's most powerful news organizations, issued a memo today advising staff to avoid the phrase "Ground Zero mosque." ahhhh the fix is in.

Posted by: Jean at August 19, 2010 03:17 PM (LqcF2)

145 I defy anyone...ANYONE including Kat from Missouri to defend with some sort of coherence and without historical whitewashing the following sentence:Islam is a religion of peace.Ok, sure, I'll give it a shot.
First of all, ask many muslims and they will tell you that the word Islam actually comes from the root word al-salaam, which literally means "peace".
Of course, their wrong, it actually comes from the word al-silm, which means"surrender" or "submission".
Hmm, ok, no go there.
Ok.. well lets see, there's always the old standby, Jihad actually means an internal struggle and not a call to violent action. Hmm... that one sounds good! Hey, I might be onto something here.
Oh, maybe not. Apparently according to the Quran 4:95 the elderly and disabled are exempted from Jihad. I guess that doesn't make to much sense, afterall you wouldn't have to exempt old guys and guys with bum knees or flat feet from an internal struggle now would you?
Hmm..
Hey, I know.. The prophet Muhammed would certainly be the guy to look to for guidance here, being a follower of Islam and all. He was a man of peace, right?
Lets see, in the last decade of his life he organized over 60 military campaigns and led 27 of them personally. He was pretty much bent on conquering all of the Arabian pennisula and killing anyone that didn't convert to a religion in which he, and only he, told the people what "God's will" was.
Hmm.. by comparisson Christ led.. well, lets see, zero military campaigns? Zero? Really? He never raised a single army, never called anyone to arms, never suggested violent action of any sort.
Oh! Hey, I know, you can always tell a lot about a society/culture/religion by how they treat the most vulnerable among them, women and children.
Err.. umm.. ok, nevermind.
Islam, religion of peace. Yup, historically you've got a realoxymoron there.

Posted by: StuckOnStupid at August 19, 2010 03:17 PM (e8T35)

146 "Freedom of Religion", as I understand the term 'religion', shouldn't put me at the risk of death.

Sorry to go all First Commandment on you, Kat, but that's the bottom line. I don't consider it a religion that should be given free rein/reign if my death is necessary for its full realization.

Posted by: t-bird at August 19, 2010 03:17 PM (FcR7P)

147 OK...
Einstein once famously said, "one form of insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting a different result"
Have we not tried the "Islam is not the problems and is a religion of Peace" approacy for almost 10 years?
And we are now locked into Americans longest War? Sure does not seem like its working to me?
Of course, some will say, well, it would have been worse if we had gone total War... but history (like WWII) does not really show that...

Posted by: Romeo13 at August 19, 2010 03:17 PM (H+oXM)

148 How many of us would speak out against Obama, even anonymously on the
internet, if we had to face the real prospect of someone killing us
and/or our families?

First we wouldn't be talking at that point, second, enough to forge a free nation, God willing.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 19, 2010 03:18 PM (0q2P7)

149 Unbowed, uncowed, dirty, dangerous, and mean as junk yard dogsPosted by: emrys at August 19, 2010 03:14 PM (msqTW)



I like that, perfect description of the Moron Horde.

And don't be a stranger, you're among friends.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at August 19, 2010 03:18 PM (P9+0W)

150 Remarkable... If we believe polls, 70% of the Nation Below Canada is opposed to this abomination. Yet the majority party in power is fully behind it. Normally a politician would sodomize his own children to achieve a 70% approval rating on a controversial issue. Yet the Democrats are opposed to stopping the Ground Zero Victory Mosque.

Tells you all you need to know about Democrats.

Posted by: George Orwell at August 19, 2010 03:19 PM (AZGON)

151 The Associated Press, one of world's most powerful news organizations,
issued a memo today advising staff to avoid the phrase "Ground Zero
mosque.

I guess 9/11 Victory Mosque is out of the question?

Posted by: real joe at August 19, 2010 03:19 PM (IpIBJ)

152 Nice post, Ace.

Posted by: Dusty at August 19, 2010 03:19 PM (3WVdK)

153 The Associated Press, one of world's most powerful news organizations, issued a memo today advising staff to avoid the phrase "Ground Zero mosque." ahhhh the fix is in.
Posted by: Jean at August 19, 2010 03:17 PM (LqcF2)
Control the narrative. Thankfully, that tactic has largely lost it's effectiveness.

Posted by: ErikW at August 19, 2010 03:19 PM (Epd0E)

154 Ace! Bravo!

Hasn't the redevelopment of the World Trade Center on the ground zero Twin Towers site been held up due to the sensitivity issue? Those same concerns apply to the sites also directly damaged by the Islamic terrorists on 9/11.

Islamic antipathy for America needs correction from within the Muslim community. There's no point for Americans to attempt to either persuade, bribe or force empathy for Americans from Islam. Either the American Muslim community produces its own empathy for 9/11 American victims, or it isn't to be.

Americans ALREADY turned the other cheek and offered our coat to protect Muslims from vigilante attack. 70x7 times required to forgive each trespass since 9/11/01 passed given all our fallen troops sent to be all things required by Iraqis, Afghans, Bush and Obama. Even Jesus advised against throwing pearls before swine. What's worst out of this lack of respect isn't so much that Islam doesn't appreciate Americans' better nature, trampling our pearls of great price. It's American Muslims turning and willfully rending Americans WITH NO APOLOGY OR REMORSE that makes obvious, there's no end to Jihadist terrorism today.

Most people today consider shame to be something they dump on others at
will, SCAPEGOAT, but certainly unacceptable for themselves. Alinsky made it official.

Particularly since Clinton sneered that it depends on the meaning of
"is", much of what "adult responsibility" used to mean no longer applies
in our society of people who excuse whatever they do to get ahead as
being "smart". Getting caught doesn't matter any longer so long as you
carry the celebrity Leftist card. Ask OJ, Bill Clinton, Obama, Geithner,
Blago, Maxine Waters, Charlie Rangel, etc.

Here's one I haven't heard since childhood, "Have you no shame?!" scolding from our elders. Everyone, when put on the spot, realized that shame accompanies wrongs.

Posted by: maverick muse at August 19, 2010 03:20 PM (H+LJc)

155 Emrys-

Please do post, and please know you're among friends here. There seem to be some of us in every city in North America.

Posted by: tmi3rd at August 19, 2010 03:20 PM (WRtsc)

156 Someone mentioned they were surprised at who indicted him. Well heard on the radio last night that a business owner stole credit card money from her patrons and I heard it no less than three times, the news reader said she was nabbed by the secret service. I thought the secret service's only job was to watch out for the pres?

Posted by: curious at August 19, 2010 03:21 PM (p302b)

157 Mikein aman.
You have an assumtion that we don't understand the threat Muslims live under, That we aren't upset weekly by stoning women and selling girl children to men at ridiculous ages. That death is a real threat .
we see all of it, and WE don't want to share their fate.,, why if they decide they want to escape and live in the west they MUST moderate. most mainstream religions have done so.
By accepting the radicalness as a cultural difference to be respected in America For Religions sake !nope. you are free to be religious you are not free to demand everyone comply with your beliefs
I'd like to know why CAIR, in America gets more airtime and media time than Zhudi Jassar ?
why is it that Mulsims that have decided they need to be moderate for the good of Islam AND their fellow religionists and their new country are not given more time? what is this where more aggressive extremes of Islam are covered for by the left ,yet moderates are ignored?

Posted by: willow at August 19, 2010 03:21 PM (SbsTp)

158 Posted by: MikeinAmman at August 19, 2010 02:50 PM (elcpe)

I find this very compelling and true from my very limited experiences personally with Muslims. But I also get what Ace and Drew are saying but for different reasons.

I do not see Islam as a religion. It was founded as a method of regional domination and once that was accomplished it was expanded to that of world domination. I do not see it in any way different than I see Communism. Islam is an ideology of world dominance, nominally in the name of Allah. If Islam were truly a religion it's primary focus would be that of the individual as with other religions and not state dominance. Are there many, many Muslims who are peaceful? Of course. Weren't most Communists? Should there be a huge Muslim "community center" next to Ground Zero? No, any more than we would have been for a huge Communist Community center in 1965. There is no freedom of religion in Muslim countries. It's a wall as big and thick as any every built around Berlin and people die every day trying to get out. And like while the Cold War raged they aren't even really safe once out. Until that wall is torn down and people can openly worship as they please then no Muslim should ever expect unquestioned respect. It will have to be earned individually.

Posted by: Rocks at August 19, 2010 03:22 PM (Q1lie)

159 Tells you all you need to know about Democrats.

Posted by: George Orwell

Ace wrote the shizzit on that very topic. They disagree, because they believe that they are the "elites" and therefore must hold a more "noble" opinion than the commoners. They revel in bucking popular opinion. It's one of those Achilles heals we continually use against them. If they weren't so arrogant, that -tax the people and give their money back in the form of bloated entitlements- scheme that they have going would be all but fool proof.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 19, 2010 03:22 PM (0q2P7)

160
Is it just coincidence that the planned mosque site is to the east of the WTC? When Muslims bow for prayers, they bow with their head toward the east and their backsides to the west...each time prayers are offered in this mosque, they'll be essentially showing us what part of them to look at.

Posted by: another njconservative at August 19, 2010 03:22 PM (ROSu7)

161 I guess one of the points I'm trying to make is not to disagree with the idea that Islam and the Koran are about hatred and war, but that Islam for many Moslems wasn't a conscious choice--at least not in the way that you and I understand it, reading the religious texts carefully, learning the history and background of those texts, perhaps asking the counsel of others, and then decided that, of all the relationships with God that I can have, I choose this one. Most Moslems I know have read very little of the Koran itself, or the Sunna, or the Hadith. What they know of their own religion is the basics from parents and others, who themselves probably haven't read the whole thing. So for them it's Ramadan, and Islamic "Scientific" accomplishments, and the whole myth of being a religion of peace. Other than that, they just want to skid their cars around the streets, download porn off the internet, and not be killed by a bomb (and there have been several terrorists bombings in Amman in the past 8-10 years). Those that do read the Koran in full are the ones who want to distance themselves from it, for the most part, and the internet age has done a great service in exposing Islam to Moslems.

Posted by: MikeinAmman at August 19, 2010 03:23 PM (elcpe)

162 Posted by: MikeinAmman at August 19, 2010 02:50 PM (elcpe)
This is why I can honestly say I don't hate mulsims. I pity Muslims.
I do hate Islam, though.

Posted by: Randy at August 19, 2010 03:23 PM (zQKSr)

163 Like herpes, shame is something that is much easier to give than it is to receive.

Posted by: Something Wicked This Way Comes... at August 19, 2010 03:24 PM (GOG1H)

164 I thought the secret service's only job was to watch out for the pres?

The Secret Service used to be under the Dept. of Treasury but now is part of Homeland Security. The Secret Service actually has a far larger jurisdiction than most people think. Basically, if it would fall under a crime against the treasury (counterfeiting, fraud, etc), that would also be a Secret Service issue.

Posted by: alexthechick at August 19, 2010 03:24 PM (eRjGt)

165 155
The Associated Press, one of world's most powerful news
organizations, issued a memo today advising staff to avoid the phrase
"Ground Zero mosque." ahhhh the fix is in.
Posted by: Jean at August 19, 2010 03:17 PM (LqcF2)
Did the AP advise what the Obamamosque was to be called by AP minions?Referencing CORDOBA will make it ALL ABOUT ISLAMIC CONQUESTS.

Posted by: maverick muse at August 19, 2010 03:24 PM (H+LJc)

166 She was a poster here for a while.
Oh, yeah. I thought I'd seen the name before.

Posted by: rdbrewer at August 19, 2010 03:25 PM (t0jpM)

167 Great post Ace. the problem with presenting the facts to prove your point is the left doesn't trust facts. Over the years "facts" have always been against them. I am being serious.

Think about it. Facts are stone cold unmovable objects. Leftists "feel" they are right and just need a plausible argument to "feel" they are correct. That is why they must make the constitution malleable.

I had a discussion with a religious leftist about the crusades where I said Islam had started it. When I showed them that the Moors were in Spain 300 years before the crusades, it did not matter. "Islam must have had a reason." Plus the narrative says we assaulted Islam with out provocation so-shut up.

It's the energy and inflection given words that reveal the prejudice. That and the history of propaganda against morality in our country. Caliphate or Crusades, Dali Lama or the Pope.

We are being conditioned to distrust our own heritage. When the average anchor on the network news trusts Islam more than Christianity it is a tipping point. Sorry, this set me off and I am taking liquid Vicodin for a tonsillectomy.

Posted by: Locus Ceruleus at August 19, 2010 03:25 PM (tzcjs)

168 they seemed to capture the essence of America in that one little
commercial.

--
Especially alphamale America ;-)

Posted by: Retread at August 19, 2010 03:25 PM (8qItv)

169 Posted by: alexthechick at August 19, 2010 03:24 PM (eRjGt)

ah thank you for that clarification. I only heard the story but I want to read something about it. You would think people would not be this dumb in our modern electronic age where everything is so traceable.

Posted by: curious at August 19, 2010 03:26 PM (p302b)

170 Islam is not 'a religion of peace'. Or of conquest, or hate, or violence.

Islam is not a religion. It is a set of cultural precepts, including law and religious practice.

And it is long since time people recognized that and debated these matters in that context. Because if you're waltzing out into Main Street at two to noon with a latte in your hand ready to talk about dialogue and tolerance, I guarantee the other guy's going to be laughing over your corpse at five past.

This is a clash of cultures--something that's been happening since Tribe A stumbled over Tribe B. And there is no coexisting with this crew, it's all 'submit or die'. The word means 'submission' or 'surrender'. It's exactly as it says on the tin, folks.

Putting your head in the sand makes it easier to lop off. Wake up!

Posted by: DarkLordOfTheIntarWebs at August 19, 2010 03:26 PM (IkEhE)

171 I don't comment here (till now), but I read AoS every day. You are America. Unbowed, uncowed, dirty, dangerous, and mean as junk yard dogs
Meaner. Heh.

Posted by: rdbrewer at August 19, 2010 03:27 PM (t0jpM)

172 Where was all this First Amendment right purity when the subject was the Mohammed cartoons? Where were all the MFM pundits insisting that Sacred Honor DEMANDS that the press print those cartoons? What I remember was a lot of whimpering that inevitably dwindled down to "Well, technicallywe CAN print those obnoxious things, but we in our decency prefer to adhere to the higher demands of sensitivity to something that Muslims feel so strongly about." Now that the shoe's on the other foot, and it's the non-Muslim majority demanding some sensitivity, they've turned into stern and jut-jawed sentinels of the Bill of Rights.

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at August 19, 2010 03:27 PM (CPdUf)

173 Posted by: Locus Ceruleus at August 19, 2010 03:25 PM (tzcjs)

oooo I'm so sorry....ooo I know how you feel....ooo hugs so sorry so sorry....eventually some nice cold ice cream helps a lot.

Posted by: curious at August 19, 2010 03:28 PM (p302b)

174 And as much as I understand the comparisons to the American Revolution, that doesn't really apply here. America has always been--and one hopes, always will be--and armed nation for this very reason. But that's not true everywhere. And maybe I'm on a crusade because I do so much work with people--men and women--who want to leave Islam, but it's easy, once again, to say on the internet that we would risk our lives speaking out, and demand that same courage of others, but the real world doesn't really work that way. I know it's a cop-out, but you really have to live here to know what I'm talking about.

Posted by: MikeinAmman at August 19, 2010 03:28 PM (elcpe)

175 Now... a question for the "have to let this happen or the Constitution is toast crowd".
Is Polygamy legal? There is NOTHING in the Constitution that says it should be, and there IS a Constituional right to freedom of Religion... yet I don't see polygamy being legal.
And how about... oh... a Nice Shinto temple next to the Arizona Memorial? after all, Shinto is a religion... or was...
Or maybe a Nice Aztec Temple? Complete with alter for Human Sacrifice?
There are many many things having to do with Religion, that we limit... the question is where to draw the line, and how...
Heck, we don't even let Preachers talk about religion from the pulpit without potentialy loosing their tax exempt status...

Posted by: Romeo13 at August 19, 2010 03:28 PM (H+oXM)

176 I cannot and I will not abide handing the enemy this weapon.
Since they are the enemy, why don't we just kill them? Wouldn't that be much easier than playing PC with them?

Posted by: joejm65 at August 19, 2010 03:28 PM (DRcw3)

177 If, on 9/11/01, and in the weeks immediately following, you had said that, almost nine years later, not only would the WTC not be rebuilt and no proper memorial in its place, but that there would be serious talk of a mosque going up in the same neighborhood, the majority of Americans would look at you wide-eyed as though you were speaking nonsensical gibberish.
And yet, here we are.

Posted by: Book Geek at August 19, 2010 03:29 PM (1+OO5)

178 163 polynikes at August 19, 2010 03:23 PM

Revisionist glory. No history. Meaning doesn't even apply during the moment words are spoken, printed or read. Definitions morph instantly on command.

Posted by: maverick muse at August 19, 2010 03:30 PM (H+LJc)

179 How many of Father Zakaria's listeners have read the koran prior to their enlightenment?

Posted by: Jean at August 19, 2010 03:30 PM (LqcF2)

180 'Moderate' Muslim dance in the streetafter 'radical' Muslims act.

Posted by: Dennis at August 19, 2010 03:30 PM (nCIhi)

181 Heck, we don't even let Preachers talk about religion from the pulpit without potentialy loosing their tax exempt status...

Politics??

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 19, 2010 03:31 PM (0q2P7)

182 Russell Simmons proves that hip hop seriously hinders literacy.

Posted by: maverick muse at August 19, 2010 03:32 PM (H+LJc)

183 An important issue that many seem to miss is that Islam is more than a religion, it is also a way of life defining both politics and societal values. A large precentage of Muslims don't want to integrate into the societies they live in, they want the societies to change to accomodate their beliefs. This isn't just in the US, this same m.o. can be seen in countries around the world.
Western Europe has been dealing, and dealing badly, with this problem for years. Parts of London are starting to look like a middle eastern city and had there not been a huge pushback a mosque that could accomodate over 10,000 people would have been smacked down in the heart of the city. Youths of Undetermined Ethnicity are raging all over France. Infidels are being killed in Holland and Jews are leaving Sweden in droves because of Muslim threats.
And just as Islam is more than a religion these mosques are more than places of worship. The FBI has been monitoring the activities of mosques throughout the US because many of them have been engaged in teaching jihad. The Ft. Hood Killer was radicalized in a VA mosque. The 9/11 murderers met and were radicalized in mosque in Germany (which has since been closed). Omar Abdel-Rahman, one of the conspirators of the first WTC bombing, preached at 3 different mosques in NYC preaching jihad.
“Jihad is now a duty for the entire [Islamic] nation until Palestine and the Aqsa mosque are liberated and Jews are either pushed into their graves or back where they came from,” his was what he said in 2000
The Aqsa mosque is liberated and Israel falls. No mosque at Ground Zero.

Posted by: JackStraw at August 19, 2010 03:32 PM (VW9/y)

184 Excellent comparison Dr. Mabuse.

Posted by: Jean at August 19, 2010 03:32 PM (LqcF2)

185 Wow... just hit me...
Sharia law is a LEGAL system, and anyone who thus advocates Sharia Law is making a Legal/Political statement.
Thus, any Imam who invokes Sharia law, from their Mosque, is making a POLITICAL statement, and that Mosque should then LOOSE its TAX EXEMPT STATUS...
And all legal under current American Law...

Posted by: Romeo13 at August 19, 2010 03:34 PM (H+oXM)

186 I am compelled to share some crazy ass contingency thought lines- what if this ends up a super duper triple secret black op? Suppose it is attacked but made to look like a crazy American bigot did it? Potential hornet's nest.

Posted by: Satan smiling at August 19, 2010 03:34 PM (nBE5A)

187
And yet, here we are.


Posted by: Book Geek

...and that the POTUS would endorse the mosque at that 9/11 location.

GROTESQUELY SURREAL

Posted by: maverick muse at August 19, 2010 03:35 PM (H+LJc)

188 I'm sitting here balling so if you don't like crying in work, open the link when you get home. Remember, they didn't take a dime of money from the government, not a single dime. this sure helps to remind us all what really matters.
That was awesome. I'm alone at work so I can cry (and I did)

Posted by: jewells at August 19, 2010 03:35 PM (l/N7H)

189 184 Heck, we don't even let Preachers talk about religion from the pulpit without potentialy loosing their tax exempt status...Politics??
Posted by: MikeTheMoose at August 19, 2010 03:31 PM (0q2P7)

Doh, yes thanks...

Posted by: Romeo13 at August 19, 2010 03:36 PM (H+oXM)

190 If you ask most NYer's they don't want the twin towers to be re built. They understand the fixing of the train hub underneath and the fixing of the infiltration of the water. But, if they had their say, they want a beautiful park and a memorial to the victims. Most people don't feel comfortable building two new buildings on a grave site.

Posted by: curious at August 19, 2010 03:37 PM (p302b)

191 Flattered to be included in this post... thanks, txmarko, ace....

Posted by: The Mega Independent at August 19, 2010 03:37 PM (TBX7c)

192
I cannot and I will not abide handing the enemy this weapon.



And a devastating weapon it is. Nuclear Iran would seem like a child's play in comparison. Just imagine: Al-qaeda recruiters speak about true Islam, muslims being opressed all over the world, wars in muslim lands etc etc and potential jihadists are like meh...whatever, but then recruiter drops "they also won't allow mosque at ground zero" and everybody's like now it's on bitches...

Posted by: AlexD at August 19, 2010 03:40 PM (tSutG)

193 " Suppose it is attacked but made to look like a crazy American bigot did it?"
Forget it. If this abomination is built, the kind of security it will have will defy description, all courtesy of the City of New York, and probably the Feds too. You think storm-troopers hovering over little old ladies at a Tea Party is offensive? Just wait till you see the kind of gauntlet native Americans will have to pass through to walk past this thing, while exotic foreigners in their long robes swish past unmolested. There'll be no picketing, no signs, no dirty looks allowed; you'll be expected to hurry by with your eyes on the ground or face the consequences. That's why you have no choice: this atrocity must be strangled in the crib before it ever takes a breath.

Posted by: Dr. Mabuse at August 19, 2010 03:40 PM (CPdUf)

194 It is offensive but by allowing yourself to be offended you give them power over you. Defend our shared American principles, let them build the mosque, allow their disrespectful and infantile act of fake defiance be the means by which the world mocks them. We are stronger than they are, we are confident in the rightness of our principles, let the world see them for the miserable, insecure, evil bastards they are.

Posted by: steve at August 19, 2010 03:41 PM (6CCkt)

195
"My own view, which I’ve stated before,
is that Islam is fundamentally incompatible with “foundational Western
values like free speech, the separation of church and state, and
equality under the law. Such things are not simply missing from Islam:
they are positively repudiated by Islam.”"

-Roger Kimball


Posted by: Lemon Kitten at August 19, 2010 03:42 PM (0fzsA)

196 At 180+ comments into this thing, somebody may have already made this point, but I can't help but remember that the original name of this monstrosity--before they tried to muddy the waters with "Park51", was "Cordoba House". Cordoba, of course, was the capital of the Islamic caliphate in what is now Spain.

This mosque will be the American version of the Temple on the Mount. This is about conquest. Triumph. They are literally and figuratively building on top of the rubble of our culture.

Posted by: azlibertarian at August 19, 2010 03:43 PM (zw1gy)

197 Posted by: steve at August 19, 2010 03:41 PM (6CCkt)

Yeah... thats the American spirit! Roll over and play dead. Because even though they slowly take over our country, we can feel good about our Moral victory... while we pay the Jizyah...

Posted by: Romeo13 at August 19, 2010 03:46 PM (H+oXM)

198 >"I really don't like the idea that it's beyond the pale to note that Islam is 'the other' in the American context. While Muslims are due somethings as a matter of course, it's up to them to meet the majority of Americans at least half way."
And the religioustenents of devout Muslim beliefmake it absolutely impossible for them todo that.The root of theirimplacably antagonistic posture toward the Westhaslittle to do with poverty, grievance, mistreatment, inequality or any of the other disingenuous excuses their apologists trot out for liberal consumptiontoourmedia.Their readiness and desire toact as they dotoward us are purely a function of the Koranic commands themselves which (it cannot be emphasized strongly enough)are divinely authoritative for them, efficacious throughout the centuries and we cannot change that fact.




It has nothing to do with poverty, grievance, mistreatment, inequality. Their readiness and desire to kill are purely a function of the Koranic commands themselves, authoritative and efficacious throughout the centuries:

Posted by: Commissioner Gordon at August 19, 2010 03:46 PM (L00d6)

199 An interesting sidelight. On the Park51 twitter feed the other night, there was a statement by the Park51 coordinator (not Rauf, but the former waiter who now supposedly has millions) whining about how "long must Muslims suffer being blamed for everything" (I quote from memory, but that's the gist).

So, the attitude is not: Americans were the victims of a horrible attack, maybe we should be sensitive to that. Instead, the attitude is: Americans are making us Muslims the victim by bringing up the connection between Islam and 9-11.

It's always about them, and their victimhood. If that's the attitude that those behind the project have, if it is ever built it will only be the source of continued animosity forever more.

Posted by: Craig Pirrong at August 19, 2010 03:46 PM (Urek6)

200 Muslims can't walk into the counrty, demand respect, do do what ever they want just because it's their Constitutional right. They have to earn the respect by keeping a low profile and showing sensitivity to the people who have been here a while and built this country. Taking advantage of our Constituion is rather hypicritical.
I'll cite a few examples, but forgive me if my history is off a little bit. They tried to appease the Jews after WWII by giving them Israel, who have been under constant attack ever since. Right or wrong, everyone was asked to go along with it but the locals didn't and still didn't like it. Race in this country took a similar turn, with affirmative action. People who didn't earn something were given stuff solely based upon the color of their skin, which has and still leads to a lot of resnetment. For those that use the "our fore fathers were imigrants that came here wth their own religion" excuse, let me remind you that immigrants came to this country to work and be free. They didn't look to cause contreversy and they were sensitive the the people and rules that were already in place.
Muslims can't walk into this place and pretend they own it. Eventually, they could be part of this culture, but it doesn't happen overnight. People need time to get used to change. Having extremists in your family blowing up buildings and killing people on army bases doesn't help your cause. You can't demand sensitivity and undstanding of your religion while you hate Jews and Christians and stone women back in the Middle East.

Posted by: Teleprompter at August 19, 2010 03:47 PM (NbmYl)

201 how "long must Muslims suffer being blamed for everything until they repudiate Islam.

Posted by: Jean at August 19, 2010 03:49 PM (LqcF2)

202 "I was the first person on Sept. 11 to step forward in the heat of
battle and say, 'No group blame, do not blame Arabs, it's a small
group.' But the reality is that, right now, if you are a healer you do
not go through with this project. If you're a warrior, you do."

LINK

and what has chuckie said about this?

nothing

Posted by: curious at August 19, 2010 03:50 PM (p302b)

203 And if I were so stupid, tasteless, and Asperger's-afflicted to
have suggested such a museum in the first place, if Japanese then told
me "That brings up horrifying memories," I wouldn't then arrogantly
double-down and begin explaining to them how intolerant they're being, how irrational they're being, how unfair to my enthusiasm for American airpower they're being.

That's weird... tolerance wouldn't even occur to my kid even after spending a year explaining the concept to him.

Posted by: Asperger mom at August 19, 2010 03:52 PM (gbCNS)

204 186 “Jihad is now a duty for the
entire [Islamic] nation until Palestine and the Aqsa mosque are
liberated and Jews are either pushed into their graves or back where
they came from,” his was what he said in 2000 --- Posted by: JackStraw at August 19, 2010 03:32 PM

WHERE do Muslims claim that Jews came from?
... Jews are pushed "back where they came from" was the British point in establishing Israel around Jerusalem where it came from in ארץ ישראל‎ Eretz Yisrael.

Posted by: maverick muse at August 19, 2010 03:53 PM (H+LJc)

205 I'm kinda thinking there should be a Temple to Marksmanship in the Dallas School Board Book Repository Building.
Pretty sure the lefties would be pissing all over themselves to protect my 1st Amendment rights to do so . . . .






(bad taste? The fuck you say? What's the Ground Zero Mosque then?)

Posted by: jimmuy at August 19, 2010 03:55 PM (jXG2x)

206 It's always about them, and their victimhood.
Criminals sing the same song in court.

Posted by: maverick muse at August 19, 2010 03:56 PM (H+LJc)

207 "pushing the Jews back to where they came form" - isn't that what Helen Thomas said as well.

Posted by: Jean at August 19, 2010 03:56 PM (LqcF2)

208 jimmuy

Didn't the Feds do something with the old Dallas School Board Book Repository Building?

Posted by: maverick muse at August 19, 2010 03:57 PM (H+LJc)

209 Fox is showing a car chase in dallas.

Posted by: curious at August 19, 2010 03:58 PM (p302b)

210 I see where the frogs sent a 100 Gypsies back to Romania. They must of been the ones that kept rioting and burning cars and shit.

Posted by: Velvet Ambition at August 19, 2010 03:58 PM (8tMuu)

211
"pushing the Jews back to where they came form" - isn't that what Helen Thomas said as well.

Posted by: Jean

Yes. But evidently, Muslims claim that Jews never lived around Jerusalem in the Land of Israel and Judea. So exactly where is their alternative "where they came from" other than dust to dust in the grave?

Posted by: maverick muse at August 19, 2010 03:59 PM (H+LJc)

212 Didn't the Feds do something with the old Dallas School Board Book Repository Building?

Posted by: maverick muse at August 19, 2010 03:57 PM (H+LJc)

They didn't make put a rifle factory on the 2nd floor that's for sure.

Posted by: Rocks at August 19, 2010 03:59 PM (Q1lie)

213 And the silver medal for "silliest comment on this theme" goes to...
*drumroll*
197 ! Steve, come on down for your award.

Posted by: Zimriel at August 19, 2010 04:00 PM (9Sbz+)

214 ok ok ok ok ... maybe you can have the mosque if we get to bomb the moon rock ... nah ... no mosque there, plus we bomb the moon rock!

Posted by: Rob at August 19, 2010 04:02 PM (GvYeG)

215 Of course, St Nicholas' rebuilding is still stalled.

Posted by: Jean at August 19, 2010 04:04 PM (LqcF2)

216 199 "Cordoba House". Cordoba, of course, was the capital of the Islamic caliphate in what is now Spain. --- Posted by: azlibertarian

Yes. CORDOBA was chosen because of its symbolism. And remember that Spain, with Portugal, sponsored Columbus' discovery of America. Hence the transference of the historical Muslim conquest of Spain to the new world.

Posted by: maverick muse at August 19, 2010 04:04 PM (H+LJc)

217 Excellent column. FYI, the Enola Gay is, in fact, in the Air & Space exhibit at their Dulles Airport annex.

Posted by: RB at August 19, 2010 04:04 PM (t1PcU)

218 Awesome response!

Posted by: Timbo at August 19, 2010 04:07 PM (ph9vn)

219 maverick muse, I'm for "pushing the Jews back to where they came form" if that "pushing" means airlifts of Merkeva parts and ammunition for a IDF return to Medina.

Posted by: Jean at August 19, 2010 04:08 PM (LqcF2)

220 every liberal hack and lefty that supports building this mosque should have no problem with John Q. Public buying the plot next to their mother, wife, child and building a good old fashioned out house not more than 1 foot from their grave. ifthey oppose it? Why, they are just afraid and denying people's right to build whatever wherever.

Your child die prematurely in a car accidnt? Won't it be a great memory for you to have a wood sh*tter errected very close by. Ypur a racist full of fear if you oppose it in any way. I am sick and tired of these people and their lefty crap

Posted by: getting fed up at August 19, 2010 04:08 PM (eiH2+)

221 Ace you need to be more pithy. I am sure your response is good but I don't have time to go through it.

Posted by: Ken Royall at August 19, 2010 04:09 PM (9zzk+)

222 Ace,
There is a lot more to talk about, of course, and talk about it we all will. But somehow, the best thing I can think of to say after reading this is simply, "Thank you".

Posted by: RM at August 19, 2010 04:11 PM (1kwr2)

223 "Excellent column. FYI, the Enola Gay is, in fact, in the Air & Space exhibit at their Dulles Airport annex."

As I remember, the leftards tried to rewrite the history of the Enola Gay, too. Fuckwads!

Posted by: Moi at August 19, 2010 04:12 PM (Ez4Ql)

224 So the gist of this broad's response is if we oppose the Mosque the Muslims have won? Yawn. The radical Imam's have no shortage of propaganda tools to use against us. In fact they are now using Democrat talking points as reasons for Jihad. When Muslims start showing some tolerance of others, they might get more in return. Until then, fuck 'em. We already tolerate all manner of BS from these idiots, enough is enough.

Posted by: Ken Royall at August 19, 2010 04:15 PM (9zzk+)

225 Here's a real-world example: There is one ship that will never be homeported in Japan, and probably won't ever visit. CVN-75, the USS Harry S Truman.

I say let them build it. People have the right to be jerks, doesn't mean we have to be polite to them. If the Cordoba House is built it won't be a celebration of Islam, it will become the target of constant insults. The Muslim world will look to Manhattan and see unending protests, daily bacon attacks, and a gay bar across the street. That's not going to look like winning.

Posted by: Jeff Gauch at August 19, 2010 04:19 PM (CO/RA)

226 “...strict observance of the written law is doubtless one of the high duties of a good citizen, but it is not the highest. The laws of necessity, of self-preservation, of saving our country when in danger, are of higher obligation. To lose our country by a scrupulous adherence to the written law, would be to lose the law itself, with life, liberty, property and all those who are enjoying them with us; thus absurdly sacrificing the ends to the means.” Thomas Jefferson

Posted by: Rik Dergis at August 19, 2010 04:20 PM (GOx5K)

227 Defend our shared American principles, let them build the mosque
Umm.. hmm....
My thought process on this is.. not just no but fuck no?
Not sure about you, but I still haven't had anyone properly explain to me how it is that allowing them to build something so completely inappropriate is a "shared American Principle", or anything remotely close.
Their is no first amendment right to build whatever the hell you want anywhere you wish. All the First Amendment says on the topic is that "Congress shall pass no law", there is nothing in there whatsoever about locals having some input into what is and isn't built in thier local community.
I don't consider allow people to be so tremendously insensitive to the family of victims of this crime against all of humanity to be a "shared American Principle", I consider it callous, cold and moronic.
There is no valid reason to build a mosque there, and this stated purpose of "outreach" or to "build dialog" or whatever sham their using this week is complete, total and obvious bullshit. If they were interested in any of that crap they'd build someplace else, hell their have been several offers to help them do just that, all of which have been rejected out of hand.
So, according to my American Principles, it's up to me to do whatever I can within legal means to convince anyone who has the power to stop this to stop it.
Anything else would simply be vastly un-american, in my opinion.

Posted by: StuckOnStupid at August 19, 2010 04:22 PM (e8T35)

228 224 Ace you need to be more pithy. I am sure your response is good but I don't have time to go through it.
Posted by: Ken Royall at August 19, 2010 04:09 PM (9zzk+)
Then here are the cliff notes:
It was fucking awesome!

Posted by: conscious, but incoherent at August 19, 2010 04:23 PM (YVZlY)

229 I often bring up a similar example, but use My Lai instead of Hiroshima. The response always come back to the fact that they we legally bound to let them build the mosque and they ignore the actual question of is it appropriate/considerate.

I'm convinced the other 30% who are in favor of this have the same feelings as the other 70%, but per Ace's post about elitists a few days ago, they go along with this nonsense to try and prove how much better/tolerant/smart they are when compared to the rest of us.

Posted by: taylork at August 19, 2010 04:24 PM (0Hn5w)

230 We must capitulate to the muslims on the Hamasque, because if we don't, it will give them a powerful recruiting tool, and you know what happens to us if they have a powerful recruiting tool! They ride in here on their camels and enslave our wimens and chilluns, that's what. I cannot and will not abide some cowboy tea partiers putting us all at risk of pissing off the muslims. Besides, standing up for yourself to bullies is not the American way. If we stand up for our values, they win. If we capitulate, we win. See how easy that is?
Just give them what they demand, be careful not to make eye contact with them,and they'll leave us alone.

Posted by: Some Dope from Mo'stan at August 19, 2010 04:25 PM (K/USr)

231 Not sure about you, but I still haven't had anyone properly explain to me how it is that allowing them to build something so completely inappropriate is a "shared American Principle", or anything remotely close.
Posted by: StuckOnStupid at August 19, 2010 04:22 PM (e8T35)
I know... its defending that time honored American Right, to be an Asshole.
But... oh... wait...now if WE are Assholes its hatespeech...... Never mind...

Posted by: Romeo13 at August 19, 2010 04:25 PM (H+oXM)

232 Margaret Carlson:
How can President Barack Obama be so right about the mosque and yet get it so wrong?
Here’s how: He is so supremely confident in his intellect that he forgets, on his way to the correct decision, to slow down and pick up not-so-gifted stragglers.
He's just too damned smart for his own good, y'all. Damn, that guy is smart.
Not like that 'ol Bush, though. He dumb. Obama smart. Bush dumb. In fact, all Republican leaders dumb. We in superior group. You not. Now pardon me while I expand my throat pouch and scare the other lizards off the beach.

Posted by: rdbrewer at August 19, 2010 04:29 PM (t0jpM)

233 I do hereby solemly, and publicly, renounce any previous political affiliation, union, pact or mutual defense agreement with Kat from Missouri and every other leftists nitwit whobuys intosuch tripe. Kat from Mo andhis/her groupis gonna get someone, perhaps a lot of someones,killed--but its not going to be me or my family. Our political union, the Constitution, is not a suicide pact.

Posted by: louis tully at August 19, 2010 04:31 PM (K/USr)

234 Kat is a pussy.

Posted by: Miss Fluffy McNutter at August 19, 2010 04:34 PM (xMSXs)

235 How much more stupidity like this will we have to endure?

Posted by: MacDaddyZion at August 19, 2010 04:41 PM (GvYeG)

236 Jane Kat, you ignorant slut.

Posted by: Dan Aykroyd at August 19, 2010 04:42 PM (IhHdM)

237 Can someone explain to me why I'm not allowed to
hate people who do that? And I do mean hate, hatred with the burning of
10,000 suns. Why am I not supposed to hate those who want to kill me?
Seriously, why not? How are many, if not most, of the tenets of
Wahhabi Islam not hateful to decent human beings? Why am I not supposed
to hate those who stone women for adultery? Why should I not hate
those who hang gays? Why should I not hate those who blow up men and
women and children? Why not? If that is not worthy of hate, then can
anyone tell me what is?

Posted by: alexthechick at August 19, 2010 02:55 PM

Excellent response, alexthechick, to one of ace's best posts.

I have come to hate the Islamos too, and it bothers me. I have prided myself on not hating anyone. You know, the old "love the sinner, hate the sin" bit....

But I do hate the Islamos. And if the Japanese had continued their savage WWII ways, I'd be calling for a museum of nuclear physics in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki plus regular B-29 flyovers, just to keep the little bastards in their place.

Muslims don't seem to want to change their ways. I'm sure a few talk about becoming civilized, about adapting their prehistoric religion/political system to modern reality, but I don't hear it. If they truly want to change their ways, they have to do the work themselves. We did it in 1776; hell, the fucking Cubans did it in '59, even if they went the wrong way politically.

I believe in being tolerant with civilized people. When someone wants to kill us, that's a different matter.

And, based on everything I have read and seen, I believe the hard-core Muslims (whom I also think make up a majority of the followers of Big Mo) want to destroy us.

We should be protecting ourselves, not helping them destroy us as sewer rats like Bloomberg and the rest of the addled, America-hating left are doing.

If you want me to love you, be lovable. If you want me to tolerate you, be tolerant and tolerable yourself. Otherwise, go away. Go back to your fucking deserts and the piss-poor nomadic lives you led before the West built you up and began to protect you with civilized laws you don't believe in obeying.

Posted by: MrScribbler at August 19, 2010 04:43 PM (Ulu3i)

238 Isn't it wonderful that this insultingly named mosque that is supposedly to further tolerance in the community in a YMCA way of interfaith (BS) discussion has the left up in arms so ready to defend them? I mean all I've heard for days is how horrible and intolerant people are. I'm so sick of splitting hairs on this subject. It's Named Cordoba. How is that not insulting, intolerant or offensive.

Missouri is the Show Me state. The mosque builders can Show Me they have some small bone of tolerance in their body by renaming or moving this insult to the very essence of democracy.

They can show me that they are not shouting out that this is establishing a symbol of the Islamic Caliphate.

They can show me this is not in support of the terrorists right next to the very place they murdered so many people.

They can show me exactly what it is they are trying to promote.

The onus is upon them to show us all exactly what they are trying to promote. The Ultra-PC crowd should allow these supposed victims of intolerance and bigotry to speak up for themselves.

I refuse to accept their BS as truth. If I have the wrong impression it's not my fault. I didn't name the mosque Cordoba.

Posted by: MorningSun at August 19, 2010 04:44 PM (IFfYS)

239 Hasn't there been some kerfuffle about the insenstive nature of having the "Stars and Bars" incorporated intoflags of Southern states? Now I can rest easier with the knowledge that itcan be reasonably considereda sign of peace and reconciliation and moderation.

Posted by: Mr. Barky at August 19, 2010 04:54 PM (qwK3S)

240 Ace - Excellent response. I have zero patience with anyone who supports this abomination. The leftie strawman about government "banning" the weapons cache, errr. . . mosque should be burned.

Posted by: MCPO Airdale at August 19, 2010 05:21 PM (G5qLy)

241 I would suggest that Israel be allowed to build a synagogue at the site of the supposed Jenin massacre.
Let's see how 'tolerant' muslims can be.

Posted by: Uncle Jefe at August 19, 2010 05:28 PM (+3fAP)

242 "You come to this country, take advantage of the system and think because we are tolerant that we are weak and helpless. Your arrogance offends me. And for that, the rate just went up 10%."

---Taken

Posted by: Bryan Mills at August 19, 2010 05:50 PM (NITzp)

243 (is it just me? I cannot use the left shift key without going 'back' to the previous page. it has been happening to me for weeks and only here. Other sites allow free use of the left shift key. Do you think I have some other key stuck? What does back page with the left shift but not the right? (am i going insane?))
No! Way! No Damned Victory Mosque! No Way! Let them build it in New Jersey. Why do they have to build it on the very ashes of the dead?

Posted by: RecklessProcess at August 19, 2010 05:58 PM (f7ylG)

244
Only the
intolerant demand tolerance of the tolerant without asking. And only
the naively tolerant tolerate the intolerant without thinking.

Posted by: dfbaskwill at August 19, 2010 08:27 PM (ndlFj)

245 Tolerate the tolerable.

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250 The muslims aren't a religion worthy of respect, they are a violent pagan barbarian death cult bent on world domination. Sick, perverted fanatics who mutilate and beat their women "for religious reasons."

Anyone who claims this is a 1st Amendment issue is an idiot, period. The federal (or state) government is not interfering with anyone's freedom of religion or practice thereof. Churches must pass the tests of the community before building every day, all over the country. Why has NYC not granted a permit to REbuild the Greek Orthodox Church damaged on 9/11, despite it being pending for YEARS before this mosque? Why is THEIR "freedom of religion' not defended?


Posted by: Adjoran at August 20, 2010 04:59 AM (VfmLu)

251 you folks are nuts, it is a fucking building and only a building, if it is anything more than that it is because you allow it to be so. is it offensive? of course it is, that is the intent, but so what? building it, there or anywhere, changes nothing. three thousand american people died on september 11, 2001 at the hands of evil, radical muslim terrorists. that is true today, will be true tomorrow, and will remain true when the mosque is built.

Posted by: steve walsh at August 20, 2010 06:35 AM (bzWBP)

252 Haven't read any of the comments - just wanted to state the following:
I read this post on the way home form work last night and never have I read my own sense of outrage and outlookso concisely written. It's almost impossible to express in words whenone's feelings are really intense and Ace, you nailed it.
Thank you.
mac :]
ps - To quote Hot Fuzz, "You are off the f*cking chain!"

Posted by: macbrooks at August 20, 2010 10:26 AM (J+MD4)

253 "it is a fucking building and only a building,"

How idiotically stupid is it to build a $100 million 'religious community center' in a predominately commercial area?

Anyone in Manhattan who is smart enough to recognize NOTHING outside of 9am to 5pm exists in Downtown Manhattan yet some extremely stupid idiots are going to build a $100 million 'religious community center' where THERE IS NO COMMUNITY.

Posted by: Harvard Inbred=Liberal's Useful Idiots at August 20, 2010 10:50 AM (+xhL8)

254 One would think the 'religious communites' this 'religious community center' is suppose to serve would be angry that the developers decided to build their 'religious community center' in the middle of a fucking commercial area where there is no community.

I am calling this 'religious community center' a scam organized by Nanny-Mommy Mayor fat-obnoxious-Ruling Class-asshole Bloomberg WHITEY LIBERAL-FASCIST MAN!

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I defy anyone...ANYONE including Kat
from Missouri to defend with some sort of coherence and without
historical whitewashing the following sentence:

Christianity is a religion of peace.

That one sentence lies at the very heart of this issue.

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