Republican Candidate for Congress: Hey, Maybe BP and the Federal Government Conspired To Leak the Oil

Oh boy.

epublican Congressional candidate William "Bill" Randall is suggesting that the Obama Administration and BP conspired to intentionally spill oil in the Gulf, resulting in 11 deaths and the worst environmental disaster in the nation's history.

Randall, who has aligned himself with the Tea Party movement, readily admits that he has no evidence that what he says is true. But that is not stopping him from making the claim as he campaigns for in the June 22 GOP runoff to face incumbent Democratic Rep. Brad Miller on the November ballot.

"Now, I'm not necessarily a conspiracy person, but I don't think enough investigation has been done on this," Randall said at a media conference on Tuesday. "Someone needs to be digging into that situation. Personally, and this is purely speculative on my part and not based on any fact, but personally I feel there is a possibility that there was some sort of collusion. I don't know how or why, but in that situation, if you have someone from a company proposing to violate the safety process and the government signing off on it, excuse me, maybe they wanted it to leak.

We are approaching a William F. Buckley moment here.

His opponent, Reeves, will face him later in a run-off; Randall edged out Reeves by 135 votes. I'm endorsing Reeves, site unseen. As nice as it is to have veterans and blacks in the GOP (Randall is both), we are approaching a Conspiracy Singularity here. Vote for Reeves.

Reeves' spokesman asked if Randall believes we didn't land on the Moon, either.

Sell crazy somewhere else; we're all stocked up here.


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Posted by: Ace at 05:39 PM



Comments

1 Ugh....

Posted by: Tami at June 16, 2010 05:41 PM (VuLos)

2 Idiot

Posted by: USA at June 16, 2010 05:43 PM (YZISw)

3 darn -- he missed it by | | this much. Who here has major doubts that BP and the feral government are working together to exploit this Accidental spill to their mutual advantage to push for crap and tax?

Posted by: PaleRider at June 16, 2010 05:44 PM (dkExz)

4 Fucking moron who should be tossed.

Posted by: Ken Royall at June 16, 2010 05:44 PM (9zzk+)

5 Carolina.

Posted by: kathysaysso at June 16, 2010 05:44 PM (ZtwUX)

6 It could happen.

Posted by: Jimmy Carter at June 16, 2010 05:44 PM (BGJIZ)

7
chalk me up as someone who believes that Obama dragged his feet until this was a full-blown disaster.

Obama wanted to wait until the oil was washing up on the shores and covering the pelicans before he acted.

Posted by: a sign post up ahead at June 16, 2010 05:45 PM (uFokq)

8 Yeah, sure, BP wants to go bankrupt.

Posted by: FreakyBoy at June 16, 2010 05:45 PM (uKraB)

9 But ya'll are correct, we really do NOT need any 'right wing nut jobs' vying for office under the Republican party flag.

Posted by: PaleRider at June 16, 2010 05:45 PM (dkExz)

10 Racist

Posted by: JavaJoe at June 16, 2010 05:45 PM (e9JZd)

11 I told him to never say out loud what we've all thought of.

Posted by: dum blond at June 16, 2010 05:45 PM (gbCNS)

12 If only he had made such mainstream accusations as the CIA introduced crack to inner cities, Bush allowed 9/11 to happen, and that we went to war for Haliburton's bottom line like many Dems believe...

I agree that we have to police our own - but their is no question that this hurts us...

Posted by: 18-1 at June 16, 2010 05:46 PM (7BU4a)

13 I have no proof, but I'm certain he's a Democrat plant.

Posted by: FreakyBoy at June 16, 2010 05:46 PM (uKraB)

14 This post is nothing more than hating on a black man. It's racism straight up.

Wait, what?

*head explodes*

Posted by: Jeneane Garafalo at June 16, 2010 05:46 PM (Xsi7M)

15
Carolina.
F*cking knew it.

Posted by: Dang Straights at June 16, 2010 05:46 PM (tPnVB)

16 Obama wanted to wait until the oil was washing up on
the shores and covering the pelicans before he acted.

Posted by: a sign post up ahead at June 16, 2010 05:45 PM (uFokq)
Dude, I was finishing my waffle.

Posted by: Barack Obama at June 16, 2010 05:47 PM (7BU4a)

17 Prolly should ask Jim Clyburn if there is some donkey dung swirling around his original primary; was he planted by Captain Kick-Ass? Maybe the media should question whether his is sane! Fire doesn't burn oil, or something.

Posted by: Vladtheimp at June 16, 2010 05:47 PM (mV340)

18 One World Goverment is a myth as well. So is the CFR, and the Trilateral Commision, and the Nafta Highway through Texas. JFK's missing brain was just misplaced.

Posted by: Pelvis at June 16, 2010 05:48 PM (LlaBi)

19 Couldn't he have just intimated that BP got a little leeway for the first few weeks...you know, to get it under control on their own.
That would have been sufficient.

Posted by: garrett at June 16, 2010 05:49 PM (FtWwU)

20 3 darn -- he missed it by | | this much. Who here has major doubts that BP and the feral government are working together to exploit this Accidental spill to their mutual advantage to push for crap and tax?
Posted by: PaleRider at June 16, 2010 05:44 PM (dkExz)
Oh I don't doubt that. Never let a crisis go to waste an all that. I can even buy into the conspiratorial idea that they are intentionally going slow to further exploit it. But that they caused the accident intentionally is definitely in the Truther/Government blew up the levies territory.

Posted by: buzzion at June 16, 2010 05:49 PM (oVQFe)

21 Randall's a spooger?
One third of Democrats are truthers under the same logic. How can something that widespread by beyond the pale? Of course, it's not. Making it public is.

Posted by: East Bay Jay at June 16, 2010 05:50 PM (ocHBO)

22 What else did you think? That oil can catch on fire? I guess we know how them Dinosaurs went extinct now huh? Hoo-Yah!

Posted by: Rosie O'Donnell at June 16, 2010 05:50 PM (BGJIZ)

23
Aaaannd the nut jobs come out of the woodwork.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 16, 2010 05:50 PM (UOM48)

24 >>>can even buy into the conspiratorial idea that they are intentionally going slow to further exploit it.

BP and Obama are both conspiring to destroy themselves?

Really?

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 05:51 PM (66DVY)

25 I'm comforted in knowing that this dipshit is running for Congress in MY DISTRICT!!!!!

Makes me glad that I actually gave some $ to Reeves earlier this summer.

Posted by: Wodeshed at June 16, 2010 05:51 PM (MFbfZ)

26 A smidge too far, I think

Posted by: Truman North at June 16, 2010 05:51 PM (e8YaH)

27 Know what's scary? Know what's really scary?

I'd rather have this nutjob than Brad Miller.

That's what's scary.

Posted by: Wodeshed at June 16, 2010 05:52 PM (MFbfZ)

28
Chrissy Matthews: Note to self. Include this footage in my Tea Baggers piece.

Posted by: Jane D'oh at June 16, 2010 05:53 PM (UOM48)

29 This is allclearly beingorchestrated by aliens based on the dark side of the moon in cooperation with Putin, Bin Laden and Obama.
It's time to buy crisis garden seeds!

Posted by: Alex Jones at June 16, 2010 05:53 PM (tbsse)

30 buzzion, when it was similarly claimed that George Bush was losing Iraq on purpose, or deliberately letting NO get drowned, what was your reaction?

Why does your reaction here different?

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 05:53 PM (66DVY)

31 Yeah, sure, BP wants to go bankrupt.

Posted by: FreakyBoy at June 16, 2010 05:45 PM (uKraB)

one: A couple of measley bankruptcies didn't stop Chrysler from getting billions in taxpayer cash.

two: I'm pretty sure they know exactly how far the Obama regime is going to go to pretend to be tough on polluters here.

I'm not saying they* did it on purpose, but I am saying they really don't give a shit.

*that is to say BP and the Obama regime.

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at June 16, 2010 05:53 PM (wOtDN)

32
Yeah, sure, BP wants to go bankrupt.

nothing to do with the conspiracy theory, but..

It seems counter-intuiitve...in a normal world. But these execs aren't acting like they give a shit about the future of BP.

Think about it. They don't give a shit about the shareholders. So what we have is a small group of execs who pay themselves extremely well and have tens of millions of dollars, if not more, in assets; what's stopping them from running BP into the ground at the behest of Obama and the greenies and simply walking away?


Posted by: a sign post up ahead at June 16, 2010 05:54 PM (uFokq)

33 This will ensure another 57 seats gained by the Democrats in the november Elections!
Drill!, Baby, Drill!

Posted by: ScattDragon at June 16, 2010 05:54 PM (FtWwU)

34 I don't believe this; and yet BP, an ostensibly science-oriented organization has gone whole hog AGW, even thought there is no science supporting it; and Obamao has done the same.


Posted by: ParisParamus at June 16, 2010 05:54 PM (8NZ+B)

35 Enter "POE" into the CRM114 to recall Bill Randal.

Posted by: Boxy Brown at June 16, 2010 05:55 PM (PWM6Q)

36 24 >>>can even buy into the conspiratorial idea that they are intentionally going slow to further exploit it. BP and Obama are both conspiring to destroy themselves? Really?
Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 05:51 PM (66DVY)
Well I never said they were intelligent did I? Honestly BP no. But I could see Obama thinking he was insulated from everything, just like he has always been, and thus seeing nothing wrong with taking time in fixing the problem so they can justify how bad and dangerous offshore drilling is for the US.

Posted by: buzzion at June 16, 2010 05:55 PM (oVQFe)

37 Just as long as no one is spilling precious bodily fluids.....

Posted by: Jack D Ripper at June 16, 2010 05:55 PM (cniXs)

38 If only he had made such mainstream accusations as the CIA introduced crack to inner cities, Bush allowed 9/11 to happen, and that we went to war for Haliburton's bottom line like many Dems believe...
And that's just it. They get away with murderous lunacy, we throw the book at one of our own for a minor gaffe.
It's not my district, and I don't know the merits of Randall vs. Reeves, but if Randall is otherwise a good guy and Reeves is a RINO, should welet one little gaffe stop a patriot?
(DISCLAIMER: If Reeves is a great guy too, than you can disregard this entirely)

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 16, 2010 05:55 PM (ujg0T)

39 Jaybus, even Alvin has more moxie than this douche.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 16, 2010 05:56 PM (JZpX3)

40 Just because we faked the moon landing doesn't mean their was a conspiracy here.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 05:56 PM (pEK05)

41 "BP and Obama are both conspiring to destroy themselves?"
I'd be hard pressed to determine where BP's motivations lie. At the CEO/Board of Director level shareholder value isn't always the game. As for Obama, it's the same as Bush with the Truthers: he paid a price, failing to stop an attack, to have the country rally around him. For Obama, the calculus is: trade the Gulf Coast to get Cap and Tax passed when the country gets outraged at the destruction. O is just screwing up the execution.

Posted by: East Bay Jay at June 16, 2010 05:56 PM (ocHBO)

42 People seem to like it when my brother Peter spills precious bodily fluids.

Posted by: Truman North at June 16, 2010 05:57 PM (e8YaH)

43 The Face of the Tea Party Movement.

Posted by: MFM at June 16, 2010 05:57 PM (4WbTI)

44 I dunno, didn't seem that much over the line to me. Take the weener from your anus, Ace. It's last week's anyhow and you bought a 12-pack.

Posted by: Banjo at June 16, 2010 05:57 PM (Ej6gj)

45 >>>Think about it. They don't give a shit about the shareholders. So what we have is a small group of execs who pay themselves extremely well and have tens of millions of dollars, if not more, in assets; what's stopping them from running BP into the ground at the behest of Obama and the greenies and simply walking away?

I know people who buy into conspiracies in everything don't understand, like, why they're, um, a little kooky?

But... just accept the fact that conspiracy theories are kooky, even if you don't really understand the 'why" of it.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 05:57 PM (66DVY)

46 Vote for Reeves.
Heck, I would vote for zombie christopher reeves over this nutjob.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at June 16, 2010 05:57 PM (T0bhq)

47 Yeah, sure, BP wants to go bankrupt.
Why not, in an Obamunist world? Chrysler and GM are getting their featherbedding.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 16, 2010 05:57 PM (ujg0T)

48 I, too, believe that Obama is dragging his heels as an excuse to pass Cap--Tax, but I wouldn't go so far as to saythis is a conspiracy.Obama didn't blow-up the well, or anythinglike that.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 05:57 PM (yfJ6g)

49 37,
I have machines for that.

Posted by: Kevin Costner at June 16, 2010 05:57 PM (BGJIZ)

50 and today, on whether or not ol 'gird your loins' joe knew there would be an oil leak, rush said he wouldn't go there....but he mentioned it...

Posted by: curious at June 16, 2010 05:57 PM (p302b)

51 Hey, someone has to speak truth to power.

Posted by: Another Stupid Typical Fucking Moonbat at June 16, 2010 05:58 PM (YmPwQ)

52 >>> I dunno, didn't seem that much over the line to me.

Yes, I know, a lot of people on the Internet are conspiracy theorists, and don't understand what's wrong with that, but again, accept that the rest of us are not as credulous -- "willing to believe,' as the Ghostbusters promise -- as you are.

And it sounds fucking crazy to us.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 05:58 PM (66DVY)

53 It's obvious. The GOP implanted magnets in his head to make him look like a Dem plant. They're a bunch of tricky bitches, them Republicans.

Posted by: Jim Clyburn at June 16, 2010 05:59 PM (VXBR1)

54 It sounds downright silly when the leftoids claim Bush knew about 9-11 Haliburton Cheney Bushco blah blah warble gargle. It's just asbad when someone from our side does it as well.I beleive thedifference will be that we don't embrace their crap or look the other way. He just lost himself the primary and I'm glad hedid if that's what kind of a nutbag he is.

Posted by: Bruce The Robert at June 16, 2010 05:59 PM (sh0JB)

55 so tired of the immediate "WHO BENEFITS?" crap -- even when the alleged conspirators are demonstrably NOT benefiting, but suffering.

Hey, every death you've ever heard of? You know WHO BENEFITED? The local mortuary.

COINCIDENCE??!!?

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 05:59 PM (66DVY)

56 Yes, Some oil companies were early adopters of the Global Warming BS. It was a political and cynical move to get a seat at the table to influence how the debate would impact them and to curry popular support.

Posted by: USA at June 16, 2010 06:00 PM (YZISw)

57
My question isn't rhetorical.

What's stopping a small group of extremely wealthy businessman from simply washing their hands of their giant corporation that is currently in embroiled in an environmental and economic crisis?

What do they have to lose?

Posted by: a sign post up ahead at June 16, 2010 06:00 PM (uFokq)

58 30 buzzion, when it was similarly claimed that George Bush was losing Iraq on purpose, or deliberately letting NO get drowned, what was your reaction? Why does your reaction here different?
Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 05:53 PM (66DVY
The idea of never letting a crisis go to waste. Its that difference in mindset that will give me some pause and wonder if they are dragging their heels on purpose to further the issue along and push their ultimate agenda.

Posted by: buzzion at June 16, 2010 06:00 PM (oVQFe)

59 aye carumba

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 16, 2010 06:01 PM (CiQPx)

60 Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 05:53 PM (66DVY)
Ace -
Consider that independently they are both making the wrong choices:
Obama letting a large campaign donor take the lead. His motivation being to let this one pass him by, what with the announcement of increased Oil Leases and all preceding the spill by mere days.
BP making assurances from the Top Down that they are 'On it'. Meanwhile, the Panic at BP is coming from the bottom up. The Execs and Operating Officers had little clue how fucked they were until it was too late.
I don't think it was a conspiracy. But Crony Politics and Backroom Deals abound with this administration, and they act solely to appease the Image of Teh Wun. They are only concerned with Branding and Legacy not action.

Posted by: ScattDragon at June 16, 2010 06:01 PM (FtWwU)

61 The Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter is actually in a sound stage in Burbank taking pictures of a meticulously crafted model of the moon.
Buy GOLD!

Posted by: Alex Jones at June 16, 2010 06:02 PM (tbsse)

62 Okay.....Okay....Okay....jeez.

Though I firmly believe BP didn't make a decision to cause this accident in order to go bankrupt, I also agree at this point going bankrupt might be the best option for BP.

Posted by: FreakyBoy at June 16, 2010 06:02 PM (uKraB)

63 readily admits that he has no evidence that what he says is true.

In a just world, uttering the phrase, "I have no evidence, but ..." would be followed by spontaneous combustion.

Fucking idiot.

Posted by: Garbonzo the Garrulous at June 16, 2010 06:02 PM (zgd5N)

64 >>>What's stopping a small group of extremely wealthy businessman from simply washing their hands of their giant corporation that is currently in embroiled in an environmental and economic crisis?

I'm not going down ratholes with the Lone Gunmen.

I would imagine, however, that the stock options in their own company would probably be an inducement not to just start being crazy.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:02 PM (66DVY)

65 Why weren't there any Jews on the rig when it exploded? Riddle me that.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 06:02 PM (pEK05)

66 Criminy - it gets worse. Randall sounds like an Obama/Biden love child if this site is to be believed.

Posted by: kathysaysso at June 16, 2010 06:03 PM (ZtwUX)

67

But... just accept the fact that conspiracy theories are kooky, even if
you don't really understand the 'why" of it.


My question/scenario has nothing at all to do with Randall's conspiracy or any conspiracy.


Posted by: a sign post up ahead at June 16, 2010 06:03 PM (uFokq)

68 scattTrollPuppehtOFF!

Posted by: garrett at June 16, 2010 06:03 PM (FtWwU)

69 I read an article in the Times of London about an argument on the rig just before the explosion. They were going to cap one of the holes, but were ordered to use sea water rather than drilling mud before putting in cement, probably because sea water is cheaper than drilling mud. There was some question as to whether or not that was appropriate.

Up until he gets to the point where he's claiming "they wanted it to happen," Randall seems to be tracking pretty well with what I heard. I've heard nothing more about what was going on, probably because showing pictures of oily pelicans is cheaper that investigative journalism.

That said, even with the denials of being a "conspiracy person," we have more than enough nutcases in Congress already, and a candidate ought to be able to express himself in such a way that you don't worry about whether or not he wears an aluminum foil hat on a regular basis.

Posted by: Gen. Sir Harry Flashman, VC at June 16, 2010 06:03 PM (ImSwG)

70 Maybe aliens did it.

It's POSSIBLE, in the sense that no physical law forbids it.

Oh wait, now I'm "just being silly."

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:03 PM (66DVY)

71 Ah, the Conspiracy Singularity. That moment/place in space/time where a man's head is shoved so far into his own asshole that he opens his eyesand exclaims: "I've Been Swallowed By A Black Hole!!!!" and yet has no idea how such a thing might have happened.

Posted by: Sharkman at June 16, 2010 06:04 PM (Zj8fM)

72 "even when the alleged conspirators are demonstrably NOT benefiting, but suffering"
The long game, Ace, the long game.
But I agree - this shouldn't be public and definitely not from a politician. You're writing off too many voters when you say something like thiswithout PROOF.

Posted by: East Bay Jay at June 16, 2010 06:04 PM (ocHBO)

73 Randall is referring to the already reported facts that BP instructed the drilling crew to use non-standard drilling fluid (seawater instead of mud) and other shortcuts that compromised safety -- and that the MMS signed off on those shortcuts -- PRIOR to the accident.

From the Wall Street Journal, May 27 (there's a lot more at the link):

BP Decisions Set Stage for Disaster
It was a difficult drill from the start.
API Well No. 60-817-44169 threw up many challenges to its principal owner, BP PLC, swallowing expensive drilling fluid and burping out dangerous gas. Those woes put the Gulf of Mexico project over budget and behind schedule by April 20, the day the well erupted, destroying the Deepwater Horizon rig and killing 11 men.
Government investigators have yet to announce conclusions about what went wrong that day. The final step in the causation chain, industry engineers have said in interviews, was most likely the failure of a crucial seal at the top of the well or a cement plug at the bottom.
But neither scenario explains the whole story. A Wall Street Journal investigation provides the most complete account so far of the fateful decisions that preceded the blast. BP made choices over the course of the project that rendered this well more vulnerable to the blowout, which unleashed a spew of crude oil that engineers are struggling to stanch.
BP, for instance, cut short a procedure involving drilling fluid that is designed to detect gas in the well and remove it before it becomes a problem, according to documents belonging to BP and to the drilling rig's owner and operator, Transocean Ltd.
BP also skipped a quality test of the cement around the pipe—another buffer against gas—despite what BP now says were signs of problems with the cement job and despite a warning from cement contractor Halliburton Co.
Once gas was rising, the design and procedures BP had chosen for the well likely gave this perilous gas an easier path up and out, say well-control experts. There was little keeping the gas from rushing up to the surface after workers, pushing to finish the job, removed a critical safeguard, the heavy drilling fluid known as "mud." BP has admitted a possible "fundamental mistake" in concluding that it was safe to proceed with mud removal, according to a memo from two Congressmen released Tuesday night.
Finally, a BP manager overseeing final well tests apparently had scant experience in deep-water drilling. He told investigators he was on the rig to "learn about deep water," according to notes of an interview with him seen by the Journal.
Some of these decisions were approved by the U.S. Interior Department's Minerals Management Service, which has come under fire for what President Obama has called its "cozy relationship" with the oil industry. But in at least one case, the decision made apparently diverged from a plan MMS approved. MMS declined to comment.
Some of BP's choices allowed it to minimize costly delays. "We were behind schedule already," said Tyrone Benton, a technician who operated underwater robots and worked for a subcontractor. He said that on the day before the accident, a Monday, managers "hoped we'd be finished by that Friday.... But it seemed like they were pushing to finish it before Friday."
He added: "They were doing too many jobs at one time." Mr. Benton is suing BP and Transocean claiming physical injury and mental anguish.

BP acknowledges the well was running over budget but says it didn't cut corners. "Safe and reliable operations remain a priority regardless of how much a well is behind schedule or over budget," spokesman Andrew Gowers wrote in an email.
Some workers agree safety was paramount for both BP and Transocean. "Safety was their No. 1 concern. Protecting the environment was their No. 1 concern," said Darin Rupinski, a Transocean employee whose job was to help keep the rig in place.

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 06:04 PM (W+GYq)

74 57 Considering how heavily the Brits have invested in BP, I would think they'd be worried about what happens to them if/when the British pension system collapses. PM Cameron hasn't defended BP, so I'm sure he Clegg would love inquiries into the British side of things.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 06:04 PM (yfJ6g)

75 The candidate is more than likely right, but a person seeking office shouldn't say anything without proof. That's the responsibility of the media. Sites like this come to mind. The truth is that with all the money being made by the left and the power they're attempting to gain it's easy to see the motive for wrecking the platform and/or let it leak. But again, not the politician's job to say it. It's ours.

Posted by: ChicagoJedi at June 16, 2010 06:05 PM (WZFkG)

76 With Republicans like this, who needs Michael Steele?

Posted by: George Orwell at June 16, 2010 06:05 PM (AZGON)

77 Not looking so bad now huh?
This message was approved by Ally G for Pres.

Posted by: Alvin Greene at June 16, 2010 06:05 PM (BGJIZ)

78 Hey, every death you've ever heard of? You know WHO BENEFITED? The
local mortuary.



COINCIDENCE??!!?
Whoa.

Posted by: damian, his eyes opened!! at June 16, 2010 06:05 PM (4WbTI)

79 It's POSSIBLE, in the sense that no physical law forbids it.
Brannigan's Law Forbids It!

Posted by: Zapp Brannigan at June 16, 2010 06:05 PM (FtWwU)

80 38

No, Reeves is a pretty good guy. Editor and Publisher of Raleigh Metro Magazine.

By way of bona fides, check this out: http://bit.ly/bzBGMo


How many guys do you know of who will write in defense of Jesse Helms?

Posted by: Wodeshed at June 16, 2010 06:06 PM (MFbfZ)

81 I'm not sure what you're finding so offensive. He's calling for an investigation of the disaster. Seems reasonable.

Posted by: Bob at June 16, 2010 06:06 PM (m9vcM)

82 We're only as strong as our weakest link.

Posted by: The Sikh Conspiracy at June 16, 2010 06:07 PM (BGJIZ)

83
I would imagine, however, that the stock options in their own company
would probably be an inducement not to just start being crazy.


I'll try this again. You have a small group of men with tens of millions of dollars in secured assets who control a giant corporation that finds itself in a huge mess. The easy thing to do would be to fold their hands and walk away from the table, no?

No hair off their ass, if they do. Other than being loyal to their corporation I can see no other reason the execs wouldn't jump ship.

Posted by: a sign post up ahead at June 16, 2010 06:07 PM (uFokq)

84 BP instructed the drilling crew to use non-standard drilling fluid
I always use Standard Drilling Fluids when Drilling!

Posted by: Will Folks at June 16, 2010 06:07 PM (FtWwU)

85 so tired of the immediate "WHO BENEFITS?" crap -- even when the alleged conspirators are demonstrably NOT benefiting, but suffering.
I don't think anyone's laid the blame on British pensioners.
You mean the BP board and Obama? They're not suffering. They're capitalizing.
That's not the same as conspiring (to spill oil).

Posted by: oblig. at June 16, 2010 06:08 PM (x7Ao8)

86 I declare Randall a prime example of today's Republican.

Posted by: David Frum at June 16, 2010 06:08 PM (AZGON)

87 I'm endorsing Reeves, site unseen. As nice as it is to have veterans
and blacks in the GOP (Randall is both), we are approaching a Conspiracy
Singularity here. Vote for Reeves.

Is he related to Clyburn?? How did he get his "filing fee"? Is he a Dem plant?

Posted by: Vic at June 16, 2010 06:08 PM (6taRI)

88 What is it with you people and your obsessive concern about evidence?

Posted by: Will Folks at June 16, 2010 06:08 PM (VXBR1)

89 Have they been spraying chem trails in the Carolina's like you hear about on coast to coast lately, man these folks are weapons grade crazy.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 16, 2010 06:08 PM (JZpX3)

90 I always use Standard Drilling Fluids when Drilling!
KY, or that funky new trojan stuff that have ads every 5 minutes?

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at June 16, 2010 06:09 PM (cniXs)

91 I would imagine, however, that the stock options in
their own company would probably be an inducement not to just start
being crazy.




Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:02 PM (66DVY)
Yes, but the BP execs overseeing the rig were probably focused more on short-term personal bonuses that they stood to earn if they could stem the cost and schedule overruns on that particular well. And they undertook a number of cost-saving shortcuts -- with MMS approval -- to get the job done quicker and cheaper.You might reflect that no NASA administrator would stand to lose money if he delayed a Space Shuttle launch due to a safety concern about the cold temperature behavior of solid rocket booster O-ring seals... but for some reason, the NASA administrators decided that launching on schedule took precedent over launching safely.

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 06:09 PM (W+GYq)

92 Maybe aliens did it.



It's POSSIBLE, in the sense that no physical law forbids it.



Oh wait, now I'm "just being silly."
You'll be hearing from our lawyer, Mr. Ace of Spades.

Posted by: E.T. at June 16, 2010 06:09 PM (Xsi7M)

93 Stuiec's rundown of the BP accident reads an awful lot like the runup to the Challenger disaster.

Shortsightedness, excessive cost cutting and deadline crunchups abound...

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at June 16, 2010 06:09 PM (PMGbu)

94 BP instructed the drilling crew to use non-standard drilling fluid

Have you ever seen an oil man drink anything but vodka? Have you ever wondered why I only drink pure distilled water or rainwater?

Posted by: William "Jack Ripper" Randall at June 16, 2010 06:09 PM (AZGON)

95 PelicanTruther. Meh.

Posted by: TheJane at June 16, 2010 06:10 PM (9Blbi)

96 You might reflect that no NASA administrator would stand to lose money
if he delayed a Space Shuttle launch due to a safety concern about the
cold temperature behavior of solid rocket booster O-ring seals... but
for some reason, the NASA administrators decided that launching on
schedule took precedent over launching safely.

Great minds think alike. Ahem.

Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at June 16, 2010 06:10 PM (PMGbu)

97 And how does a rig catch fire on the water, and then sink, when it's designed to float? Huh? That defies the laws of physics. And the way it exploded and sank straight down in the ocean indicates a controlled demolition.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 06:10 PM (pEK05)

98 I think I'm gonna blame the oil spill on lace wigs. Because they didn't supply enough of them to use as hair nets to stop the oil from reaching the shore, you know.

There's a huge difference between incompetence and malice, buzzion. And there's not always malicious fault to be assigned for a particular event. Sometimes shit just happens, sometimes neglect rather than active bad action is to blame.

Posted by: Alice H at June 16, 2010 06:10 PM (qJHYy)

99 The idea of never letting a crisis go to waste. Its that difference in mindset that will give me some pause and wonder if they are dragging their heels on purpose to further the issue along and push their ultimate agenda.
Posted by: buzzion at June 16, 2010 06:00 PM (oVQFe)
Jeebus buzzion, they're not dragging their heels feet. They are fucking incompetent.

Posted by: robtr at June 16, 2010 06:10 PM (fwSHf)

100 I think Jack Tripper would make a fine senator.
It's his creepy friend Larry that I don't like.

Posted by: Dr. Varno at June 16, 2010 06:11 PM (0QJjg)

101 Are you telling me that the same people that write about population control with the same glee as Andrew Sullivan writes about Palin's vaj don't believe in the ends justifies the means?

Now, I love conspiracy theories as much as the next person and I don't believe that the spill was intentional, but the complete lack of action on containment is seriously puzzling. If I were President, I would have had every ship in the world in the Gulf to skim up the oil and I would have used every boom, whether it was "approved" or not.

Are you trying to tell me that the most intelligent President in history, lacks the fundamental ability to recognize that this situation requires the mobilization of every world resource in a case like this? If the lack of action isn't intentional, then we have the WORST President in history. Part of me would rather believe that he's trying to be a god at the chessboard of humanity, then a complete moron. Although, I guess he could be both.

Posted by: devilish at June 16, 2010 06:12 PM (vyRPu)

102 Is he related to Clyburn?? How did he get his "filing fee"? Is he a Dem plant?


Posted by: Vic at June 16, 2010 06:08 PM (6taRI)

You be the judge: Bill
Randall has said that while working for a company in Florida, with an
‘F’ Better Business Bureau rating, he personally contacted 15,000
companies over three years – or one business every 25 minutes. He says
as a CMC Petty Officer in the Navy he led 16,000 sailors – more men
than a Major General commands. He says he’s a minister – but he does
not have a divinity degree. And, now, the university he says awarded
him an MBA degree – says it didn’t.

Posted by: kathysaysso at June 16, 2010 06:12 PM (ZtwUX)

103 Have you ever wondered why I only drink pure distilled water or rainwater?
Don't wash your hair with that shit!

Posted by: Blaire at June 16, 2010 06:13 PM (FtWwU)

104 Conspiracy? No. Not in the true sense of the word. To be called a conspiracy, you'd have to believe that iWon or his peopleactually deigned totalkwith BP persons (whoever that might be). Quite a stretch, there.
Incompetence? Why, yes, yes indeed. This whole event has been a case study in bothineptitude and arrogance.

Posted by: soulpile at June 16, 2010 06:14 PM (gH+Hj)

105 You can see evidence of this conspiracy on my website, along with the secret document release about the Greys and the spirit photography and the mp3 recordings of phone calls from the dead.

Posted by: Art Bell at June 16, 2010 06:15 PM (AZGON)

106 >>>You mean the BP board and Obama? They're not suffering. They're capitalizing.


Yeah, that's right, Obama's poll numbers are going up because of this.

Oh wait -- right, he has a secret scheme to capitalize this in 10 years.

Whatever.

You're the same as the truthers; you just have a different cast of characters in your fictions.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:15 PM (66DVY)

107 Al and Tipper looked like greys in that photo yesterday.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 16, 2010 06:16 PM (JZpX3)

108 Are you trying to tell me that the most intelligent President in
history, lacks the fundamental ability to recognize that this situation
requires the mobilization of every world resource in a case like this?

No.

Oh, wait, you're referring to Obama. I thought you actually were asking this question about the most intelligent President in history. In that case, yes.

Posted by: Alice H at June 16, 2010 06:16 PM (qJHYy)

109
Republican Candidate for Congress: Hey, Maybe BP and the
Federal Government Conspired To Leak the Oil

Well ... it's pretty clear that BP and The Precedent are colluding against the People, now, to allow the federal government powers it never had, putting all other private corporations at risk. The "boots on the neck" are happily embraced by BP and happily delivered by the feral government - together.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 16, 2010 06:16 PM (Qp4DT)

110 Fools!

Your obsession with BP and the "President" is just so sad!

Those that think they had anything to do with this leak are fooling themselves. If you ask questions and buy my pamphlet, you'd learn just how.deep.this.rabbit .hole.goes.

I'll just say the last words radioed to shore from the rig were, "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!"

Posted by: Smelly guy at the library at June 16, 2010 06:16 PM (zgd5N)

111 I'm not incompetent, I take Metamucil every day. I'm quite regular!

Posted by: President Mensa at June 16, 2010 06:17 PM (tbsse)

112 81 I'm not sure what you're finding so offensive. He's calling for an investigation of the disaster. Seems reasonable.
Posted by: Bob at June 16, 2010 06:06 PM (m9vcM)
The wild speculation that they intentionally caused the accident. Its an idiotic and ridiculous idea to put forth. You want an investigation fine. But don't speculate that the accident was no accident, and actually an intentional act plotted by BP and the government.

Posted by: buzzion at June 16, 2010 06:17 PM (oVQFe)

113 >>>The long game, Ace, the long game.

Wheels within wheels.

We're in the rabbit hole.

*Layers.*

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:17 PM (66DVY)

114 This is retarded.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:17 PM (66DVY)

115 Mr. Randall will make a rare appearance on my show tonight, so tune in. He will appear by astral projection.

Posted by: George Noory at June 16, 2010 06:17 PM (AZGON)

116 I'll just say the last words radioed to shore from the rig were, "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!"

I'm glad I don't work on the Dagon oil rig.

Posted by: H. P. Lovecraft at June 16, 2010 06:18 PM (AZGON)

117 I mean really, for crissakes. Can the end be far off? Wouldn't that be merciful?
It certainly isn't funny anymore, that's for damn sure.

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at June 16, 2010 06:19 PM (r1h5M)

118 What we do to make an example of this BP Deep Horizon "Spill Truther" should be used in a juxtaposition against what the Democrats did about their 9/11 Truthers.
Conservatives marginalize their wackos, Liberals promote them to higher leadership positions.

Posted by: Speller at June 16, 2010 06:19 PM (o0R2E)

119 Hey, every death you've ever heard of? You know WHO BENEFITED? The
local mortuary.



COINCIDENCE??!!?




Hollywood, you're complaining about the piss poor performance of recent remakes and sequels? Need semi-original movie ideas?

Talk to a moron.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at June 16, 2010 06:19 PM (Aqzx6)

120 This is retarded.
Someone is trying to get the 'Cuda to come slap him around, with her all natural rack.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at June 16, 2010 06:19 PM (cniXs)

121 The beauty of the Obama/BP conspiracy is that just 2 weeks before the rig blew Obama in a stroke of genius approved more deep water drilling to throw off people investigating the accident. Bill Randall wasn't fooled though.

Posted by: robtr at June 16, 2010 06:20 PM (fwSHf)

122 It's the fucking Mayans, sheesh.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 16, 2010 06:20 PM (JZpX3)

123 Obama may have seen this disaster as an opportunity for grand legislation, in fact I'm sure he does, and he may have miscalculated on the political damage it would do to him, but there is no way he conspired to cause a massive leak in the Gulf with unknown consequences. Even he is not that stupid.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 06:21 PM (pEK05)

124 You've been spoiling for a fight the last couple of days, Ace.

Do we need a flamewar to get the tensions out?

Posted by: damian at June 16, 2010 06:21 PM (4WbTI)

125 You're the same as the truthers; you just have a different cast of
characters in your fictions.


LOL, I guess Randall is an "Oiler".

O/T: Fox is reporting that the Won has issued an executive order which calls for the government to kill health insurance programs and replace them with Obamacare under a host of "conditions, thus taking back his promise of "you can keep your current plan".

That is unless you are a union who are exempted from the rules.

Posted by: Vic at June 16, 2010 06:21 PM (6taRI)

126 And some wonder why the GOP is so lackluster at the voting booth.

Let's cut to the chase... we all know who is behind this. Adam Weishaupt!

Posted by: George Orwell at June 16, 2010 06:22 PM (AZGON)

127 Yeah right, and then he cleverly had his MMS dude off on vacation at the Grand Canyon just to make sure he looked extra-special incompetent.

Honestly.

Are your brains so incapable of handling additional characters in your storylines that you are determined to eliminate the character "Circumstance and Happenstance" from every single narrative? Instead ascribing every event that occurs to the deliberate scheming of three or four villains?

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:22 PM (66DVY)

128
Shortsightedness, excessive cost cutting and deadline crunchups
abound...

This is all you need when working in hostile environments.

Posted by: Dang Straights at June 16, 2010 06:23 PM (tPnVB)

129 >>>You mean the BP board and Obama? They're not suffering. They're capitalizing.





Yeah, that's right, Obama's poll numbers are going up because of this.

Hint: Obama doesn't care about poll numbers and never did.

Posted by: Trade, Cap and at June 16, 2010 06:23 PM (Xsi7M)

130 Now the Sikhs....... those motherfuckers are capable of anything.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 06:23 PM (pEK05)

131 Personally, and this is purely speculative on my part and not based on
any fact,
Generally speaking that's a good time to shut your mouth, in the real world and especially when you are running for congress. Its one thing to throw these "theories" out on the internet because its fun and for a thinking exercise, its another at a press conference.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at June 16, 2010 06:23 PM (T0bhq)

132 My third hour will be devoted to getting to the 'bottom' of this.

- Right after the Splenda gave me a tail, guy.

Posted by: George Noory at June 16, 2010 06:23 PM (BGJIZ)

133 I question the timing.

And the punching down.

But mostly the timing.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 16, 2010 06:24 PM (VW9/y)

134 #125 O/T: Fox is reporting that the Won has issued an executive order which
calls for the government to kill health insurance programs and replace
them with Obamacare under a host of "conditions, thus taking back his
promise of "you can keep your current plan".

Surprise, surprise, surprise....

Posted by: Kratos (missing from the side of Mt Olympus) at June 16, 2010 06:24 PM (c0A3e)

135 Vic,

Odumbass is just having a fit because everyone is hating on him.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 16, 2010 06:26 PM (JZpX3)

136 >>>Yeah, it's not like most a whole lot of us have all been privately thinking the same thing or anything. And it's not like the Obama Administration Regime would ever, ever, ever stoop to something like this.

A whole lot of you are addicted to conspiracy theories because they're simple and all follow the exact same stupid pattern.

There, I said it.

And every time you spout off, thinking you're showing off how darn smart and perceptive you are, everyone else thinks you're a fool.

So if you want to keep showing off your duncecaps, be my guest.


Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:26 PM (66DVY)

137 BP is soley responsible for what happened to the well. Both the Obama Admin. BP are responsible for the cleean-up, Obama seems to be dragging his feet. It took him 55 days to accept help from the Dutch? Why not do it 3 days out from the disaster? I don't think it's a conspiracy, but it is further proof that bureaucrats are inept.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 06:26 PM (yfJ6g)

138 Yeah, that's right, Obama's poll numbers are going up because of this.

Hint: Obama doesn't care about poll numbers and never did.

Posted by: Trade, Cap and at June 16, 2010 06:23 PM (Xsi7M)

The bigger point is that he'd be a complete fool, on a level far beyond even his historical, unprecedented mouth-breathing-ness, to care about his poll numbers right now. The MFM will go into full-time cover mode come 2012, he has nothing to fear.

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at June 16, 2010 06:26 PM (wOtDN)

139 You know, a sad truth: such conspiracy theorizing by William Randall *is* sadly plausible to many of us--because of the underhanded way this Adiminstration goes about its agenda. See Health Care Vote, and how the votes were purchased.
That said, it looks like Reeves is the better primary candidate.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 16, 2010 06:27 PM (ujg0T)

140 #136 Odumbass is just having a fit because everyone is hating on him.

Maybe he cried last night after several MFM pundits publicly bashed his speech.

Posted by: Kratos (missing from the side of Mt Olympus) at June 16, 2010 06:28 PM (c0A3e)

141 Hint: Obama doesn't care about poll numbers and
never did. Posted by: Trade, Cap and

Right. Because the best way to solidify your seats in Congress is to lose voters.

Brilliant. Feckin' brilliant.

Posted by: Smelly guy at the library at June 16, 2010 06:28 PM (zgd5N)

142 And it's not like even Rush has been fielding tons of calls from people
suggesting much the same thing

Wow, nutbar conspiracy theorist fuckwads are phoning in to a talk radio show! Hold the presses!

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 16, 2010 06:28 PM (S9AJM)

143 Gee, it's not like super-sophisticated fairly-new machinery could EVER just FAIL on its own or anything.

No, all machines work perfectly, always, and all buildings stay standing no matter how many planes fly into them.

The only thing that can possibly explain these "convenient failures" is human scheming.


Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:28 PM (66DVY)

144 Conspiracy to cause the disaster? No. To exploit the disaster? Yes.

Posted by: davidt at June 16, 2010 06:28 PM (HtIec)

145 "Oh boy", Ace? "Oh boy"! Are you ever in hot water now, young man!

Posted by: maureen dowd at June 16, 2010 06:28 PM (7b1Uc)

146 This is retarded.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:17 PM (66DVY)
Well, yes, it's pretty retarded to suggest that BP wanted the well to blow out. But it was also pretty retarded for BP's engineers to take the shortcuts that allowed the blowout to happen just to save a little time and money -- and either retarded or incredibly lazy of the MMS to rubber-stamp BP's shortcuts.As for what happened after the blowout, you can see a lot of "not invented here" idiocy in the decisions to refuse offers of foreign help, and some inexcusable CYA ex-post facto justification of the decision, for example, not to use the boom from the company in Maine, and just an overall sense of a lack of urgency on the part of the Obama Administration throughout the first couple of weeks after the blowout.And when the President then uses his first Oval Office address to talk about this disaster and chooses to frame it as a justification for his Cap and Trade bill rather than a challenge requiring a singular focus and a massive response, then he himself fuels the feeling that he sees the gushing oil only in terms of political advantage.

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 06:28 PM (W+GYq)

147 Occam's Razor my friends. This is a conspiracy by Big Veterinary and the Dutchto rake in obscene profits cleaning pelicans and otters.

Posted by: Delta Smelt at June 16, 2010 06:29 PM (0pYSi)

148 -->Obama may have seen this disaster as an opportunity
for grand legislation, in fact I'm sure he does,

There's no doubt, at all, that The Precedent viewed this spill as nothing but an opportunity. Clearly, he didn't care about anything else, as was demonstrated by his inactions (and actions ignoring the states' requests) through the first month and a half - not unlike his intentional stalling on the Afghan troop requests.

-->and he may have
miscalculated on the political damage it would do to him,

The Precedent doesn't care about political damage. He never did. He just wants to kill the US and he's on a suicide mission to accomplish that.

-->but there is
no way he conspired to cause a massive leak in the Gulf with unknown
consequences. Even he is not that stupid.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 06:21 PM (pEK05)
I don't put any stock in the conspiracy theory, but there are no actions or words from The Precedent that would go against the theory. He has done everything one could imagine to allow this disaster to be as big as possible, and his first reactions were to:1) stop the states from saving their shores2) start trying to push CrapTrade (which has nothing to do with an oil spill)3) get across the idea that it is right for the feral government to have their "boot on the neck" of private business - even though the responsibilities for oversight of offshore drilling (and cleanup/containment of spills) is fully with the federal government.Lastly, while I don't subscribe to this theory, The Precedent is that stupid, and worse, that malicious and hateful. Don't underestimate the Indonesian Imbecile's burning hate of our nation and our institutions.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 16, 2010 06:29 PM (Qp4DT)

149 This is retarded.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:17 PM (66DVY)
No, You're retarded!

Posted by: Every playground ever at June 16, 2010 06:29 PM (Xsi7M)

150 You're the same as the truthers; you just have a different cast of characters in your fictions.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:15 PM (66DVY)
And every time you spout off, thinking you're showing off how darn smart and perceptive you are, everyone else thinks you're a fool.

So if you want to keep showing off your duncecaps, be my guest.



Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:26 PM (66DVY)

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at June 16, 2010 06:29 PM (wOtDN)

151 I said this morning that the oil truthers were due out any second!

Posted by: dagny at June 16, 2010 06:29 PM (DNCvM)

152 Ace, do you think it's actually possible that Obama, from the beginning, saw this disaster as an opportunity to pass crazy energy legislation and therefore didn't respond as quickly as he could have?

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 06:29 PM (pEK05)

153


Never explain by conspiracy that which can be adequately accounted for by incompetence.


Posted by: s'moron at June 16, 2010 06:31 PM (UaxA0)

154 New RNC adabout Sir Golfs-a-lot

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 06:31 PM (yfJ6g)

155 Are your brains so incapable of handling additional characters in your
storylines that you are determined to eliminate the character
"Circumstance and Happenstance" from every single narrative?

The villains are easy to write for. Circumstance and Happenstance, not so much.

Posted by: Conspiracy Theorist Writer's Guild at June 16, 2010 06:31 PM (Xsi7M)

156 10-20 Million dead turtles and pelicans... TOPS!
I'm not saying we wouldn't get our "hair" (shoreline) mussed!

Posted by: Gen. Buck Turgidson at June 16, 2010 06:31 PM (kduZC)

157 Instead ascribing every event that occurs to the deliberate scheming of
three or four villains?

Lex Luthor, Dr. No, Prof. Moriarity David Rockefeller?

Posted by: rockhead at June 16, 2010 06:32 PM (RykTt)

158 Is it possible they're not too concerned because this might be the world's biggest oil field?

Posted by: torabora at June 16, 2010 06:32 PM (fZte/)

159 Women sense my power.

Posted by: William "Wild Bill" Randall at June 16, 2010 06:33 PM (CiQPx)

160 BP is soley responsible for what happened to the
well.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 06:26 PM (yfJ6g)
Not at all. Those given oversight responsibilities are more responsible than BP, since BP can't do much of anything without their okay.When the government takes oversight power, they assume much responsibility with that.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 16, 2010 06:33 PM (Qp4DT)

161 William F. Buckley moment?

Posted by: Kensington at June 16, 2010 06:33 PM (aDdAT)

162 heres what really happened folks. the guy at the BP station down the street from me. he hooked me for 10 bucks awhile back. so i went down there and broke his fucking pipe. that will teach him.

Posted by: Racefan at June 16, 2010 06:33 PM (T0qTK)

163 This is retarded.
Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:17 PM (66DVY)
I take offense to that!

Posted by: Blaire's Cousin Gerri at June 16, 2010 06:33 PM (FtWwU)

164 No, all machines work perfectly, always, and all buildings stay standing no matter how many planes fly into them.
Hey ace, Fire doesn't melt steel. I read that on the internet so watch yourself.

Posted by: robtr at June 16, 2010 06:33 PM (fwSHf)

165 New RNC adabout Sir Golfs-a-lot

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 06:31 PM (yfJ6g)
HA! Not bad for the RNC.

Posted by: Tami at June 16, 2010 06:33 PM (VuLos)

166 >>>Ace, do you think it's actually possible that Obama, from the beginning, saw this disaster as an opportunity to pass crazy energy legislation and therefore didn't respond as quickly as he could have?

Nope. I don't buy the conspiracy theory walk-backs, either, like "I'm not saying Bush blew up the WTC -- I'm JUST SAYING he knew it was going to happen but didn't act to prevent it."

This is a walk-back, one step back from the crazy-abyss, which is supposed to look like a "reasonable compromise" to the crazy one.

Guys, if Obama's doing shit like this, how is it we're not in prison?

Same thing I asked of the left with their truther conspiracies. Same lack of answer.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:34 PM (66DVY)

167 This is soooo gunna' put me back on top again.

Posted by: Oliver Stone at June 16, 2010 06:34 PM (BGJIZ)

168 Yes, mein fuhrer! Er, Mr President.

Posted by: dr strangelove at June 16, 2010 06:34 PM (7b1Uc)

169 Can the rest of the states vote to make South Carolina secede?
I mean, at one point they wanted it.

Posted by: Michael Rittenhouse at June 16, 2010 06:35 PM (b+X6h)

170 Basically, the conspiracy theorists are saying that contrary to all prior evidence, Obama is actually a frighteningly-effective incredibly-competent sooper-genius mastermind executive.

Me, I'll go with him still being the same dithering preening lazy underqualified fuckup he's always been.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 16, 2010 06:35 PM (S9AJM)

171 Right. Because the best way to solidify your seats in
Congress is to lose voters.Brilliant. Feckin' brilliant.

Posted by: Smelly guy at the library at June 16, 2010 06:28 PM (zgd5N)
The Precedent never cared one whit for Dems in the Congress. You might have noticed this when he lashed out at the Congressional dems during one of the many deaths of the health scare. The Congressional junta are nothing but useful idiots to The Precedent and they are to be tossed overboard the minute that becomes more useful.
You don't seem to grasp the real intentions of The Precedent, which have nothing to do with dems controlling Congress. He wants to break Congress. He's done as much damage to that institution as he has been able with dems running it. Now, he's planning on lots of Constitutional crises with the GOP running Congress and him defying them all the way.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 16, 2010 06:36 PM (Qp4DT)

172 Meanwhile, in the Gulf...

NOAA expands fishing closed area in Gulf of
Mexico, representing 33 percent of Gulf federal waters http://bit.ly/c1zSkD


Posted by: Kratos (missing from the side of Mt Olympus) at June 16, 2010 06:36 PM (c0A3e)

173 stuiec,

you are having some other argument. I'm not arguing against that.

You seem to be IMPLYING that because they did x as you say that gee whiz that's almost y as the conspiracy theorists would have it.

No. Not at all.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:36 PM (66DVY)

174 A suggestion? We're merely seeing what a pathological narcissist and beneficiary of affirmative action run amok will do once elected to the highest office in the executive branch. Devoid of practical experience and any desire to work, suffused with an addiction to praise and adulation, young Earflaps McBaritone shows us the scale of his mettle when confronted with real crisis. You need an electron microscope to find it.

Posted by: George Orwell at June 16, 2010 06:36 PM (AZGON)

175

No, all machines work perfectly, always, and all buildings stay standing
no matter how many planes fly into them.


DUH! That's why there called ma-chines!

Posted by: s'moron at June 16, 2010 06:36 PM (UaxA0)

176 Gee, it's not like super-sophisticated fairly-new
machinery could EVER just FAIL on its own or anything.





No, all machines work perfectly, always, and all buildings stay standing
no matter how many planes fly into them.





The only thing that can possibly explain these "convenient failures" is
human scheming.




Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:28 PM (66DVY)
What's clear is that the super-sophisticated fairly-new machinery didn't fail on its own: it had help from the people who disabled safety systems on the blowout preventer and used cost-saving shortcuts, not out of a desire to cause catastrophe but out of an irrationally optimistic view of the unlikeliness of catastrophe.As s'moron points out, the much preferable explanation
is greed and incompetence and the willingness to take stupid risks that
seemed like a good idea at the time.

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 06:37 PM (W+GYq)

177 No conspiracy but there are a few pieces of incompetence that make me believe they are more engaged on the future legislative front than on the stop the fucking spill front....
1. Not suspending the Jones Act
2. Waiting 57 days to speechify or meet with BP
3. Never asking the U.S. Navy if they could help
4. Deeming booms, any booms, ineligible for use
5. Not approving sand bar building
6. Not producing the permissions needed for local clean up (hear-say)

Posted by: dagny at June 16, 2010 06:37 PM (DNCvM)

178 Basically, the conspiracy theorists are saying that contrary to all prior evidence, Obama is actually a frighteningly-effective incredibly-competent sooper-genius mastermind executive.Me, I'll go with him still being the same dithering preening lazy underqualified fuckup he's always been.
Ockham's Razor, indeed. Simple Obumbles does beat out complicated Machivellian Obama Bar Sinister.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 16, 2010 06:37 PM (ujg0T)

179 Does anyone else see the irony in quoting a movie that was intended as a mockery of Joseph McCarthy here?

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at June 16, 2010 06:37 PM (wOtDN)

180 Me, I'll go with him still being the same dithering preening lazy underqualified fuckup he's always been.
Yup. The Community Organizer in Chief. Occam's Razor. And now that he has his crisis he's going to use it to do what he wanted to do all along. Crap and Tax.

Posted by: Delta Smelt at June 16, 2010 06:37 PM (0pYSi)

181 if Obama's doing shit like this, how is it we're not in prison?
They are working on shutting down the interwebz and talk radio. Can sleep away camp be far behind?
I hope they assign us all to the same camp. We can make s'mores and sing songs around the campfire....

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at June 16, 2010 06:37 PM (cniXs)

182 I tend not to believe any theory without proof. The walk-back theory is tempting because the response has been pathetic, but it's proof of ineptiude and nothing else.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 06:38 PM (pEK05)

183 >>>it. You posted this thinking we were all on the same page with the "C0NSPIRASSY WAcK0Z OMG!!!!!111!!!!!!" narrative, when in reality a whole lot more of us are inclined to listen to the Bill Randall take on the "Never Let a Crisis Go to Waste" administration than you'd like to believe.

No, I didn't think we were "all" on the anti-conspiracy theory page; I know that some of you just cannot help but claiming that everything that happens is due to conspiracy.

But I'm here to tell you you sound like imbeciles, and I know you THINK you sound smart and like you're "thinking outside the box," in fact you sound like fools and you are perpetually thinking inside the
same, shabby stupid box.

It isn't thinking outside the box to make the exact same claim every time something happens.

It's always the same thing. This is not "outside the box." This is you taking the same pet thought and applying it over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, again.




Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:39 PM (66DVY)

184

Right. Because the best way to
solidify your seats in
Congress is to lose voters



No the best way to solidify power is to lose congressional seats. I said it, so it must be true.

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at June 16, 2010 06:39 PM (UaxA0)

185 I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids.

Posted by: General Jack D Ripper at June 16, 2010 06:39 PM (f7ylG)

186 I'd like to take this opportunity to announce My new machines: They collect Tea Partiers, chip them up, mix in Independents, and blow them down the fucking well.

- And who really CARES if it will work?

Posted by: Sean Penn at June 16, 2010 06:40 PM (BGJIZ)

187 ...and all buildings stay standing no matter how many planes fly into them.


The only thing that can possibly explain these "convenient failures" is human scheming.

Um there was actual scheming involved, it just didn't involve the Bush administration. That "conspirace" was a matter of cowards trying to deflect their mortal fear of evil onto those who would never actually harm them.

*This* is more demagoguery than anything else.

Posted by: Methos at June 16, 2010 06:40 PM (Xsi7M)

188 #183 I hope they assign us all to the same camp. We can make s'mores and
sing songs around the campfire....
No s'mores - FWOTUS has decreed that chocolate and marshmallows be outlawed because they are too fattening and contribute to the epidemic of obesity in America's youth.

No fires either - all that released carbon makes Gaia cry.

All we're going to have in the camps is cold grass-water soup.

Posted by: Kratos (missing from the side of Mt Olympus) at June 16, 2010 06:40 PM (c0A3e)

189 Look -- name me the SEALs who planted the charges and we'll talk.

I need the names of the SEALs or ex-SEALS (and who else could do secret deep-water demolition).

Then we can have a discussion about whether these SEALs blew up the oil rig on Obama's orders.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:41 PM (66DVY)

190 161 Not at all. Those given oversight responsibilities are more responsible than BP, since BP can't do much of anything without their okay.
When the government takes oversight power, they assume much responsibility with that.
Well, the people on the ground are responsible for improperly capping the well. However, I agree that government oversight led to major problems, perhaps even the aforementioned.Yes, the government accepted the oversight power but not the responsibility; they (almost) always do.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 06:41 PM (yfJ6g)

191 Some days I resent even the fact that conspiracy people are allowed access to oxygen.

Every time you think that a secret group of evil government employees is doing something sneaky, go down to your local DMV and sit on a bench and observe the employees there for an hour.

If that doesn't cure you, then go down to city hall for a couple hours.

Watch CSPAN.

Look at the pictures of Obama's douchebags playing some beer pong.

These are the people you think are behind the clever plot.

BP's shit fucked up and it started to leak. Sometimes drywallers miss the studs and your wall falls apart, and auto mechanics forget to tighten the lug nuts on your car wheel, and doctors leave forceps in your chest after heart surgery.

Shit happens when shit involves humans. And some shit leaks oil.

Do I think that the oil spill is a useful tool for Greenpeace and Obama and Algore and every other commie group in the world?

Yes.
But that doesn't mean they are smart enough or ballsy enough or stupid enough to do it on purpose.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 06:41 PM (JR2D9)

192 This is soooo gunna' put me back on top again.
Posted by: Oliver Stone at June 16, 2010 06:34 PM (BGJIZ)
Me and you both, homey!

Posted by: Michael Moore at June 16, 2010 06:41 PM (9r6eV)

193 Me, I'll go with him still being the same dithering preening lazy underqualified fuckup he's always been.

Hey now. I could run rings around this guy.

Posted by: an average dithering preening lazy underqualified fuckup at June 16, 2010 06:41 PM (AZGON)

194 10-20 Million dead turtles and pelicans... TOPS!

On Fox just now they did a piece on the Exaon Valdeze cleanup. They said it cost $90,000/animal cleaned and 90% of them still died.

One of the eco-morons interviewed said it was still worth it because it was oil company money so cost was not an issue.

Posted by: Vic at June 16, 2010 06:41 PM (6taRI)

195 On thing is sure, even if Reeves trounces Randall handily in the GOP primary, don't expect the MFM to acknowledge it.
I remember Chris "Wet Panties" Matthews going into a hissy fit about Orly Taitz, a birther bimbo, who tried to get the GOP nomination for California secretary of state. Never mind that her rival for the nomination, Damon Dunn, won handily by a 75/25 margin. Liberals live in strange cocoons, terrorized by hypothetical bogeymen (or bogey women, as the case may be).

Posted by: Curmudgeon at June 16, 2010 06:41 PM (ujg0T)

196 SEALs??? I thought it was a North Korean sub. Which conspiracy are we talking about?

Posted by: devilish at June 16, 2010 06:42 PM (vyRPu)

197 OT:

Oh, look....it wasn't Al's fault. That Tipper, why she's bat-shit crazy....


Al Gore's 40-year marriage crumbled because of his wife's jealous rages that he was allegedly having an affair, it was claimed tonight.
The former US presidential candidate separated from Tipper because she suspected he was sleeping with a string of glamorous women.
Rather than her ending the relationship as previously thought, it was he who brought things to an end, according to U.S. reports.
'While there's never been proof that Al had affairs, Tipper allowed herself to suspect the worse,' a source told an American newspaper.
'I think she's always believed there was something going on between Al and many of the women in his life.'
http://tinyurl.com/2fvwklr

Posted by: Tami at June 16, 2010 06:42 PM (VuLos)

198 IMO anyone who believes in this conspiracy theory can't take yes for an answer. Before the election and after we complained that he was inexperienced and incompetent. Now that he has proven that a couple of times some are trying to blame it on something more nefarious.
Just face it, originally when we said he would be an incompetent inexperienced asshole for a president. We were right.

Posted by: robtr at June 16, 2010 06:42 PM (fwSHf)

199 You don't seem to grasp the real
intentions of The Precedent, which have nothing to do with dems
controlling Congress. He wants to break Congress. He's done as much
damage to that institution as he has been able with dems running it.
Now, he's planning on lots of Constitutional crises with the GOP running
Congress and him defying them all the way. Posted by: progressoverpeace
He wants GOP running Congress so he can defy the Constitution?

Huh?

Why not just, you know, keep Congress and do whatever he wants?

Riddle me this, ye of vast and superior wisdom, why hasn't he nationalized the US assets of BP?

Posted by: Garbonzo the Garrulous at June 16, 2010 06:42 PM (zgd5N)

200 I need the names of the SEALs or ex-SEALS (and who else could do secret deep-water demolition). Then we can have a discussion about whether these SEALs blew up the oil rig on Obama's orders.
They called me, but I was doing Larry King that day.

Posted by: Jesse Ventura at June 16, 2010 06:43 PM (0pYSi)

201 Don't forget about the Norks minisubs Ace.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 16, 2010 06:43 PM (JZpX3)

202 "...Can sleep away camp be far behind? "

Oh God no ! Did you see Angela had a "thingie"



(spoiler alert)

Posted by: Joanie (Oven Gloves) at June 16, 2010 06:43 PM (wd0Iq)

203 You heard it here first:

Filming now for my new film Green Zone 2: The Spew

Posted by: Matt "MATT DAMON" Damon !!1!!!1 at June 16, 2010 06:43 PM (MFbfZ)

204 191
Look -- name me the SEALs who planted the charges and we'll talk.


Think outside the box dude, think Day Of The Dolphin.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 06:43 PM (pEK05)

205 do you think it's actually possible that Obama, from the beginning, saw this disaster as an opportunity to pass crazy energy legislation and therefore didn't respond as quickly as he could have?
Possibility does not equal probability, and probability is what is important.
Not responding effectively (politically) is just plain ol' incompetence.

Posted by: William at June 16, 2010 06:43 PM (CiQPx)

206 Ace writes:

"BP and Obama are both conspiring to destroy themselves?

Really?"

BP has just limited their liability by turning over 20 billion to Obama's trust fund. Meanwhile, exploration in the area that produces 1/3 of US oil production has been ceased. They're still free to resell all the Saudi and Kuwaiti oil they want in the US at a large profit.

BP still exists, but some 330,000 people in Louisiana are facing unemployment, and the Saudis and Kuwaitis and Vladimir Putin and Hugo Chavez and all those people will be able to reap increased profits from the shutdown.

Depending on how BP plays the futures market, they could make out like a bandit from all of this., especially this passive-aggressive chickenshit commie administration's reaction to the crisis.

So I don't see where the whole "but they wouldn't stand to benefit" deal makes this conspiracy theory invalid. After all, I've never seen a picture of President Zero bowing to an _American_ voter the way he bowed to the Saudi King.

Posted by: Abdominal Snowman at June 16, 2010 06:43 PM (xlmQD)

207 Tipper Gore set the charges on the Deepwater Horizon rig?

Posted by: Confused Already at June 16, 2010 06:43 PM (S9AJM)

208 Every time you think that a secret group of evil government employees is doing something sneaky, go down to your local DMV and sit on a bench and observe the employees there for an hour.

That sounds like a job we ought to unionize.

Posted by: SEIU at June 16, 2010 06:44 PM (AZGON)

209 sock

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 16, 2010 06:44 PM (CiQPx)

210 Look -- name me the SEALs who planted the charges and we'll talk.

It was the elephant seals. Where's my bucket of herring?

Posted by: sea lion informant at June 16, 2010 06:44 PM (SwkdU)

211 "thinking you're showing off how darn smart and perceptive you are, everyone else thinks you're a fool"
I come to AoS for the commentary but I stay for the insults (particularly when they're deserved).
Upstream I saw something about him being an ex Command Master Chief. This job placed him ina dotted line relationship with every enlistedat the command. If he was at a large base or a regional command he would in fact be "leading" 16,000 or so folks.The offendingstatement also fits in well with a former Command Master Chief.The Captain of a base or a ship has to be PC, Command Master Chief's have more freedom to 'tell it like it is'. So he's probably used to getting away with pushing the envelope and may not be, accordingly, a good politician. Being ex-NavyI like seeing ex-Navy politicians (for the most part, thanks, Jimmah) but I'm afraid officers are better suited for a political life.

Posted by: East Bay Jay at June 16, 2010 06:44 PM (ocHBO)

212 Look -- name me the SEALs who planted the charges and we'll talk. I need the names of the SEALs or ex-SEALS (and who else could do secret deep-water demolition). Then we can have a discussion about whether these SEALs blew up the oil rig on Obama's orders.
Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:41 PM (66DVY)
It was sharks with frickin lazers what done it, not seals.

Posted by: robtr at June 16, 2010 06:45 PM (fwSHf)

213 No. Not at all.




Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:36 PM (66DVY)
Not what I am arguing. I am arguing that part of what Randall says is absolutely valid: BP and the MMS made joint decisions in advance of the accident that compromised safety and violated good drilling practice.Where Randall goes off the rails is in suggesting that BP and the Obama Administration would have liked to have had just a dainty little spill and were caught off guard when their evil plot blew completely out of control. No: BP doesn't ever desire a well to spill even a little, because that's costly in terms of lost oil and in terms of mitigation expenses. And Obama didn't want a deepwater drilling spill right on the heels of his announcement that he was opening up more areas to deepwater drilling, because that makes him look just stupid.I think in the balance of how much time and how many words Randall devoted to the two parts of his argument, I'd be more circumspect than you in labeling him a full-on conspiracy nut. And given the misinterpretation here that Randall was somehow saying that BP was conspiring not to cap the well, I think his point about focusing on the BP/MMS joint decision-making BEFORE the explosion and blowout is one that needs repetition and amplification.

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 06:45 PM (W+GYq)

214 And I wrote that in italics because the damn editor thing wouldn't let me turn them off when I tried to put Ace's quote in italics.

Bleh.

Maybe this really does look like crazy talk if you aren't one of the 330,000 that the mainstream press probably isn't even going to report on the unemployment of.

I don't really care any more.

Posted by: Abdominal Snowman at June 16, 2010 06:45 PM (xlmQD)

215 Why not just, you know, keep Congress and do whatever he wants?
He's pretty much been doing that. remember that nice little chart that shows how they've implemented their agenda despite the fact those things stalled in congress.

Posted by: buzzion at June 16, 2010 06:45 PM (oVQFe)

216 There was a "conspiracy" here, of BP claiming its practices were safe and insisting no additional safeguards were necessary, and politicians and bureaucrats pretending to believe them, and Captain Kickass not focusing on any of this because he was directing the MMS to get out of the Old and Busted oil industry and into the New Hotness offshore wind power industry.

But not fucking corporations bankrupting themselves and Obama conspiring with them to destroy the gulf coast just to... what? Have a 5% higher chance of passing cap and trade?

Hey, if a president is successful he finds it a lot easier to get his agenda through.

So if he's this crafty, why isn't he just being a SUCCESS and getting his agenda through that way?

No one blew up the rig, or intended it to fail.

Corners were cut -- of course they were.

But no, no one did this on purpose for "the long game."

Please.

It's the same theory every time! Do you not see that?

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:46 PM (66DVY)

217 Riddle me this, ye of vast and superior wisdom, why hasn't he nationalized the US assets of BP?


Posted by: Garbonzo the Garrulous at June 16, 2010 06:42 PM (zgd5N)

I'm taking a "wait and see" attitude on that one. When the $2x10¹° in escrow magically turns out to be not enough?

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at June 16, 2010 06:46 PM (wOtDN)

218 I fucked the living daylights out of that oil rig.

Posted by: Will Folks at June 16, 2010 06:46 PM (AZGON)

219 So what is it about NC politics that just brings out teh stupid in people?

Posted by: NC Ref at June 16, 2010 06:46 PM (Nxga8)

220 Don't forget about the Norks minisubs Ace.
We can't detect their superior Stealth Pedal Power Technology.
If they brought chain lube with them, we're fucked!

Posted by: admiral garrett at June 16, 2010 06:46 PM (FtWwU)

221 It was the elephant seals. Where's my bucket of
herring?

Posted by: sea lion informant at June 16, 2010 06:44 PM (SwkdU)
Only walrus informants get bukkits. You'll get a paper cone of herring and LIKE it.

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 06:47 PM (W+GYq)

222 The Walrus got revenge cuz they stole hz buket.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 06:47 PM (JR2D9)

223 stuiec, NO ONE IS ARGUING AGAINST THAT.

That is not however the same as colluding to blow up the rig, or deliberately arranging for the BOP to fail.

Do you not grasp that there is a signficant difference between "willful negligence" and "premeditation"?

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:47 PM (66DVY)

224 whoa.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 06:47 PM (JR2D9)

225 -->He wants GOP running Congress so he can defy the
Constitution?-->Huh?

-->Why not just, you know, keep
Congress
and do whatever he wants?
He can't just do whatever he wants, anymore. He knows that he's shot his load with the dems. Now, it's time for him to have a more confrontational relationship with Congress as he goes into the end of his suicide run.

The Precedent isn't intersted in passing legislation or changing America. He's interested in killing our institutions and burning America to the ground. He sees himself as the avenging angel of the third world and he's here to exact revenge on the US and the West.-->Riddle me this, ye of vast and superior
wisdom, why hasn't he nationalized the US assets of BP?

Posted by: Garbonzo the Garrulous at June 16, 2010 06:42 PM (zgd5N)
I don't see the point of this. He's taking money from BP without any legal backing and with no oversight by anyone. I think he's happy with that, for the moment. Showing the "boots on the neck" is the object lesson for America on this one.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 16, 2010 06:47 PM (Qp4DT)

226 Do you not grasp that there is a signficant difference between "willful negligence" and "premeditation"?


Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:47 PM (66DVY)

Yeah, one of them is something lots of people here have outright stated is the case, and one of them is something that some black dude hinted at.

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at June 16, 2010 06:49 PM (wOtDN)

227 It's the same theory every time! Do you not see that?
That's just what we want you to think...this is working, swimmingly.

Posted by: Sikh Conspiracist at June 16, 2010 06:49 PM (FtWwU)

228 On Fox just now they did a piece on the Exaon Valdeze cleanup. They said it cost $90,000/animal cleaned and 90% of them still died.One of the eco-morons interviewed said it was still worth it because it was oil company money so cost was not an issue.
Posted by: Vic at June 16, 2010 06:41 PM (6taRI)
...................
I worked for Exxon when this happened and it cost me my job.

Posted by: Racefan at June 16, 2010 06:49 PM (T0qTK)

229 Circular firing squad.....ASSEMBLE!
Mr. Randall's statements, though loopy, probably shouldn't budge the give-a-fuck-ometer above "Meh."

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at June 16, 2010 06:49 PM (kmEfr)

230 I did it. To advance the Giaiareligion. And my bank account. And to get my poetry out there.

Posted by: Al Gore at June 16, 2010 06:49 PM (CiQPx)

231 Think outside the box dude, think Day Of The Dolphin.


Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 06:43 PM (pEK05)
OMFG are you saying ZOMBIE GEORGE C. SCOTT DID IT???!?!??!!!??

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 06:49 PM (W+GYq)

232 I learned about this conspiracy when I played The White Album backwards.

Posted by: William "Backward Masking" Randall at June 16, 2010 06:50 PM (AZGON)

233 >>>IMO anyone who believes in this conspiracy theory can't take yes for an answer. Before the election and after we complained that he was inexperienced and incompetent. Now that he has proven that a couple of times some are trying to blame it on something more nefarious.

>>>Just face it, originally when we said he would be an incompetent inexperienced asshole for a president. We were right.

Quoted for Truth. Thank you.

I was trying to think of something like this and you have said it right.

EXACTLY.

Let me repeat:

Every one of you said he was incompetent for three years running now, and now that his incompetence is demonstrated, you claim "oh no, he's SUPER competent; all this is by perfect design."

Ridiculous.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:50 PM (66DVY)

234 Whoops! that was supposed to be the Sikh Conspiritor...sockfail.

Posted by: garrett at June 16, 2010 06:50 PM (FtWwU)

235 I don't know the details of the candidates' conspiracy theory, but there's enough wrong with the way the crisis has been responded to that people need to be asking some questions.

IMHO.

Posted by: Abdominal Snowman at June 16, 2010 06:51 PM (xlmQD)

236 But I still think Obama is the highest placed Soviet agent ever assigned to America. Just a hunch.

My son will have to wait until the documents are declassified someday.

Venona 2: The Punk-ening

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 06:51 PM (JR2D9)

237 Ace on the phone with stuiec earlier today.

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 16, 2010 06:51 PM (CiQPx)

238 Sorry, I'm sticking with my own previous statement that he's incompetent.

If some of you have decided you were wrong, that's fine.

I haven't. I'm not wrong. I said he was an incompetent with no experience running anything other than his mouth and I will take this as the vindication it is, not the repudiation of my previous belief.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:51 PM (66DVY)

239 About time you fuckers thinned out some other species.

Posted by: Whales Everywhere at June 16, 2010 06:52 PM (BGJIZ)

240 Obama is incompetent but Joe Biden is his Dick Cheney. ///

Posted by: Delta Smelt at June 16, 2010 06:52 PM (0pYSi)

241 Here's the only conspiracy theory I believe in:

I believe that there is a good possibility that our child-emperor was selected, nurtured, and promoted by forces unknown so that he might eventually assume a position of power to do precisely the things that he is doing today.

Potential sponsors/promoters? Could be muslims, could be marxists, could be progressives. Or do I repeat myself?

Posted by: Wodeshed at June 16, 2010 06:54 PM (MFbfZ)

242 I'm not wrong. I said he was an incompetent with no experience running anything other than his mouth and I will take this as the vindication it is, not the repudiation of my previous belief.
Hell of a Shakedown, today, though.
Gotta hand him that.

Posted by: Reverend Jessie Jackson at June 16, 2010 06:54 PM (FtWwU)

243 Do you not grasp that there is a signficant difference between "willful
negligence" and "premeditation"?




Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:47 PM (66DVY)
Yes, and the reason I'm harping on the point is thata) Randall is wrong to imply premeditation, AND(b) Randall is dead-on right to talk about the willful negligence that was reflected in the BP/MMS joint decision-making leading up to the blowout.Too bad he spend ten seconds on (A) because it let everyone off the hook for listening to him spend three minutes on (B).

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 06:54 PM (W+GYq)

244 I know he got the job! But can he do the job?

I'M NOT ARGUING THAT WITH YOU!

classic

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 06:54 PM (JR2D9)

245 If you're going to state to anyone in public that you believe Obama and BP blew up the rig, please add that you're a Democrat.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 06:55 PM (pEK05)

246 only good part of that movie.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:55 PM (66DVY)

247 Kinda Feel like Some Bob Seger after that!

Posted by: Reverend Jessie Jackson at June 16, 2010 06:55 PM (FtWwU)

248 probably not smart for a politician to speculate like that, but I'd be lying if I didn't harbor some of those same doubts. it doesn't mean that i buy into it, but some things that have occurred do fit that narrative. people running for congress shouldn't be speculating about it in public though if they don't want to be painted as a nut.

Posted by: exceller at June 16, 2010 06:55 PM (Z7Znk)

249 $90,000/animal cleaned and 90% of them still died.


Hell, for 90 g's I'd clean 'em AND breast feed 'em. And I'm a guy.

Posted by: Wodeshed at June 16, 2010 06:56 PM (MFbfZ)

250 Sorry, I'm sticking with my own previous statement
that he's incompetent.





Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:51 PM (66DVY)
Sure, he's incompetent. And inept and retarded. But don't forget that he's malicious as all get-out and hates us, too.I am not of the mind that he conspired with BP to blow the well, but I don't think that hypothesis is crazy, just by looking at other things the Indonesian Imbecile has done and looking at what his reactions to this spill were. People see a spill happening, all of a sudden, after decades, and they rightly wonder - especially when it happens under the strict oversight of anti-drilling America-haters.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 16, 2010 06:56 PM (Qp4DT)

251 You know, there is the possibility that I'm... uh, I mean, um, Obama is really just a colossally lazy idiot. That he suckered an entire nation into voting for someone as shiftless as I... um, uh, I mean, as he is.

Posted by: Arackbay Usseinhay Amaobay at June 16, 2010 06:56 PM (AZGON)

252 240 Ace on the phone with stuiec earlier today.
Posted by: rdbrewer at June 16, 2010 06:51 PM (CiQPx)
that about says it all.

Posted by: Racefan at June 16, 2010 06:58 PM (T0qTK)

253 OT: I'll go on record as saying that Eric Burdon's version of Tennessee Ernie Ford's 16 Tons in Joe vs. the Volcano is my favorite version.


Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 06:58 PM (JR2D9)

254 The Precedent isn't intersted in passing legislation or changing
America. He's interested in killing our institutions and burning
America to the ground. He sees himself as the avenging angel of the
third world and he's here to exact revenge on the US and the West. Posted by: progressoverpeace

Or he's the incompetent, inexperienced buttfuck we said he was in 2008.

If he is the Fourth Horseman, he's a fucking incompetent one. I bet you and I could come up with 2 dozen things he could have done in the first 6 months of his presidency to permanently fuck the US but didn't.

Again, he's not the Machiavelli on steroids that you think he is.

Posted by: Garbonzo the Garrulous at June 16, 2010 06:59 PM (zgd5N)

255 I believe that there is a good possibility that our child-emperor was selected, nurtured, and promoted by forces unknown so that he might eventually assume a position of power to do precisely the things that he is doing today.Potential sponsors/promoters? Could be muslims, could be marxists, could be progressives. Or do I repeat myself?
Posted by: Wodeshed at June 16, 2010 06:54 PM (MFbfZ)
Nah, I don't believe that either. He's just an incompetent narcissist. He doesn't care about any of the programs he has passed or wants to pass. He just cares that they have a name like Health Care Reform, Energy Reform or immigration reform because no one else was able to do it and he can take the victory lap.

Posted by: robtr at June 16, 2010 06:59 PM (fwSHf)

256 Ace
on the phone with stuiec earlier today.

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 16, 2010 06:51 PM (CiQPx)
Am I Frank or am I Harry?

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 06:59 PM (W+GYq)

257 @191: "Look -- name me the SEALs who planted the charges and we'll talk. I need the names of the SEALs or ex-SEALS (and who else could do secret deep-water demolition). "
Bit of an impossible request - the identity of guys involved in spec ops stuff is pretty highly classified. So, even if the SEALs actually did it, no one could tell you anyway.

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at June 16, 2010 07:00 PM (kmEfr)

258 I hope someone speaks up ASAP to disjoint this fruitcake from the tea party movement. Statements like that can be toxic. I fully expect the MFM to use that as often as possible.

Posted by: Schlippy at June 16, 2010 07:02 PM (xm1A1)

259 I could have handled this with half my brain leaking out my earholes!

Posted by: Zombie Reagan at June 16, 2010 07:02 PM (BGJIZ)

260 You guys have it all wrong. The Atlanteans did it because the Deepwater Horizon was getting too close to their subterannean underwater atomic power crystal, the one the Mayans are going to use in 2012.
My wife told me after a trance involving her spirit guide Lars.

Posted by: Rep. Dennis Kucinich D-OH, 10th District at June 16, 2010 07:02 PM (9r6eV)

261 If he is the Fourth Horseman, he's a fucking
incompetent one. I bet you and I could come up with 2 dozen things he
could have done in the first 6 months of his presidency to permanently
fuck the US but didn't.Again, he's not the Machiavelli on
steroids that you think he is.

Posted by: Garbonzo the Garrulous at June 16, 2010 06:59 PM (zgd5N)
His stupidity is the only silver lining we have. Yes, he's a total imbecile. But, he's lucky that destruction takes little competence - a 12 year old could easily destroy an aircraft carrier if you put him in charge. He has done as much damage as HE was able to do. But don't mistake his intentions. Thank G-d for his ineptitude, but that is about it.And he has done irreparable damage to this nation. A lot.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 16, 2010 07:02 PM (Qp4DT)

262 241 Sorry, I'm sticking with my own previous statement that he's incompetent. If some of you have decided you were wrong, that's fine. I haven't. I'm not wrong. I said he was an incompetent with no experience running anything other than his mouth and I will take this as the vindication it is, not the repudiation of my previous belief.
Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:51 PM (66DVY)
See I do also think he's incompetent. That's kind of my point from above. He thought this could be used to his advantage. And that it could be done without the blame falling to him, and his planned agenda being pushed forward.
No way is he genius enough to have planned the accident to happen. But I do believe he and his handlers saw this as an opportunity to capitalize on and dumb enough to believe they wouldn't get any blame on them.

Posted by: buzzion at June 16, 2010 07:02 PM (oVQFe)

263 After watching the Bob Seger vid I am convinced Obama and the BP Exec just did lines andwatched 'Beverly Hills Cop II' today.

Posted by: garrett at June 16, 2010 07:03 PM (FtWwU)

264 You want me to dive down there and take a look?

Posted by: Lloyd Bridges at June 16, 2010 07:03 PM (Ks4nX)

265 Has anyone blamed the Mossad yet?

I wanna get the square in the Blame Pool marked Mossad.

How much per square? How 'bout $10 bucks a square?

I'll take the "Guy who fell asleep square", too, just in case.

Who do I send my $20 to?


Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 07:04 PM (JR2D9)

266 I don't accept that his stupidity and incompetence is incompatible with his malfeasance. In my opinion, if anything, they are complementary qualities.

Posted by: Wodeshed at June 16, 2010 07:05 PM (MFbfZ)

267 Gov. Charlie Crist checks a Florida beach for signs of oil - Uh huh

Posted by: Gerry at June 16, 2010 07:05 PM (3tDcT)

268 I could have handled this with half my brain leaking
out my earholes!

Posted by: Zombie Reagan at June 16, 2010 07:02 PM (BGJIZ)
I wonder if he would have ordered a decommissioned sub to be flooded and scuttled nose-first onto the wellhead. THAT would have been totally cool!!RAMMING SPEED!!!

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 07:05 PM (W+GYq)

269 Think outside the box dude, think Day Of The Dolphin.
Tweeee-tweeee-nik-tla-tla-weeeee.
[I could tell you, Dr Spank, but then I'd have to kill you.]

Posted by: flipper at June 16, 2010 07:06 PM (7b1Uc)

270
Crist was checking to see if she had a dick.

Posted by: Fish at June 16, 2010 07:06 PM (v1gw3)

271 Tla-tla-weeeeee-twwweeeeeeeeeeee-weee.
[And screw the seals.]

Posted by: flipper at June 16, 2010 07:07 PM (7b1Uc)

272 Tennessee Ernie Ford's 16 Tons

Hey don't forget about me! I wrote it and had the first hit.

Posted by: Merle Travis at June 16, 2010 07:07 PM (6taRI)

273 You want me to dive down there and take a look?

Posted by: Lloyd
Bridges at June 16, 2010 07:03 PM (Ks4nX)
After they cancelled Sea Hunt, why didn't they cast Lloyd Bridges in a Fugitive-style series about him searching for his long-lost brother Mike?

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 07:07 PM (W+GYq)

274 Anyone notice that we've seen two pictures of Crist with women in the past couple days? One of him hugging and kissing a woman and one staring at a woman's ass.

His handlers are trying to butch him up like they tried with Algore's lumberjack outfits.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 07:08 PM (JR2D9)

275 In the category of 'What I learned today' -
I learned that, as a little people, BP cares about me.
Thank you BP.

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at June 16, 2010 07:08 PM (r1h5M)

276 I like the way this man thinks and want to subscribe to his newsletter.

OK, maybe not...

Posted by: rawmuse at June 16, 2010 07:08 PM (Ni/8F)

277 270
Gov. Charlie Crist checks a
Florida beach for signs of oil

He's not looking for
that kind of oil...

/old decadent perv.

Posted by: Kratos (missing from the side of Mt Olympus) at June 16, 2010 07:08 PM (c0A3e)

278 273,

If you scroll down you will see the dick too.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 16, 2010 07:08 PM (JZpX3)

279 He sees himself as the avenging angel of the third world and he's here to exact revenge on the US and the West.
---
Or he's the incompetent, inexperienced buttfuck we said he was in 2008.

I rather suspect this shadow of a half-man is so vacant and unearthly in his view of himself in the world that a real disaster like the BP spill strikes him with no more immediacy and reality than drawing a "Go Directly to Jail" card in a game of Monopoly. The wretched fool lives in an airy world of postmodern fantasy, decked out in unimaginable luxury paid for by our oppressed population. If he seems like a third-rate Mr. Spock with all the depth and dimension of a mimeograph, that's because he is just that flat. Never forget he called himself a blank screen upon which people project their fantasies.

The weirdest thing about the SOB in the White House is his bloodlessness, his absence of animal spirits. About the only thing that gets him excited is playing golf badly. I suspect this asshat is actually rather bored most of the time. One almost wonders if he required "assistance" in procreation.

Posted by: George Orwell at June 16, 2010 07:09 PM (AZGON)

280 Merle Travis was indeed the fountain of that great song. I was mistaken.

I lost some country points on that one. Been in LA County too long.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 07:09 PM (JR2D9)

281 I learned that, as a little people, BP cares about
me.
Thank you BP.

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at June 16, 2010 07:08 PM (r1h5M)
"Small people."

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 07:09 PM (W+GYq)

282 I'll admit I thought about it, in the deep recesses of my moronic mind, but then I realized that it would be the biggest conspiracy in the world. It would make The Second Gunman and the Truthers sound like very rational people.

Posted by: John P. Squibob at June 16, 2010 07:10 PM (/U/Mr)

283 "Look -- name me the SEALs who planted the charges and we'll talk.
eeeeeeeeeek-eeeek-eeeeeek
click*click-click*click
eeeeee-eeeeee
click*click*

Posted by: Special Ops Dolphin at June 16, 2010 07:10 PM (FtWwU)

284 Has anyone blamed the Mossad yet?

I wanna get the square in the Blame Pool marked Mossad.


I got dibs on The Black Helicopters.

Posted by: George Orwell at June 16, 2010 07:10 PM (AZGON)

285 >>>I am not of the mind that he conspired with BP to blow the well, but I don't think that hypothesis is crazy,

a lot of liberals didn't think Bush blew up the WTC. They just thought that was a permissible, possibly-true theory, requiring further investigation.

They were stupid then, and you are being dumb now.

This is exactly one step away from blaming the next tornado on Obama, too.

When you're willing to believe anything... well, you are not employing the gift of discrimination and wisdom.


Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 07:11 PM (66DVY)

286 Where's Major Kong?

Posted by: President Merkley Muffley at June 16, 2010 07:11 PM (mAm+G)

287 I think soccer should take its share of responsibility.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 07:12 PM (pEK05)

288 he's not the Machiavelli on steroids that you think he is.

Posted by: Garbonzo the Garrulous at June 16, 2010 06:59 PM (zgd5N)

No, that would be the marxist sychophants at ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, NPR, CNN, MSNBC (& half the staff of Fox News). Obama is just a handy tool.

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at June 16, 2010 07:13 PM (wOtDN)

289 When you're willing to believe anything... well, you are not employing the gift of discrimination and wisdom.
Seeing possiblities is easy. Probability isa much harder bronco to ride.

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 16, 2010 07:15 PM (CiQPx)

290 Barry Rainbowshanks is more like Ellsworth Toohey than Cesare Borgia

Posted by: George Orwell at June 16, 2010 07:15 PM (AZGON)

291 Odumass is incompetent as a president. But he's Used-Car-Salesman-of-the-Year competent for selling lemons.

Posted by: dum blond at June 16, 2010 07:15 PM (gbCNS)

292 The weirdest thing about the SOB in the White House
is his bloodlessness, his absence of animal spirits. About the only
thing that gets him excited is playing golf badly. I suspect this
asshat is actually rather bored most of the time. One almost wonders if
he required "assistance" in procreation.

Posted by: George Orwell at June 16, 2010 07:09 PM (AZGON)
Have you never been in a job that was way above your capabilities, where the boss wanted to see if you would sink or swim? He's acting like that, and he's sinking: akin to "deer in the headlights" paralysis, where he think any actual action he takes is as likely to make things worse than better. Hence he doesn't send his own version of legislation to Congress for the Porkulus or health care or Cap and Trade or immigration or jobs, and he only acts decisively when acting means flying somewhere to give a speech or make a presentation (Copenhagen for the Olympic selection committee and again for the Climate Change summit come to mind).

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 07:15 PM (W+GYq)

293 Know what's scary? Know what's really scary? I'd rather have this nutjob than Brad Miller. That's what's scary

Heh. I wish Brad Miller was my Congressman.

Posted by: Moron from Mel Watt's district at June 16, 2010 07:16 PM (Ks4nX)

294 I think soccer should take its share of responsibility.
Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 07:12 PM (pEK05)
Heh, on the soccer thread the other day I was talking about how bad it was and how they just sort of made kicks in the general direction of each other so the pro soccer people told me to watch Spain! Because they are sooo good at ball control.
Well I did, they got killed by Switzerland.

Posted by: robtr at June 16, 2010 07:16 PM (fwSHf)

295 "Small people."
Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 07:09 PM (W+GYq)
You obviously took my word out of context... but hey, that's ok.

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at June 16, 2010 07:16 PM (r1h5M)

296 BP is just a collection of schmoes like any other company. I do hope that Swedish somebitch that talked about "small people" today ends up in a room full of drunk unemployed Gulf fishermen some dark night.

Europeans, hiding under Lady Liberty's umbrella since 1941 and still can't manage to have an ounce of respect.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 07:17 PM (JR2D9)

297 This is exactly one step away from blaming the next tornado on Obama, too.


Isn't the tornado generator shuttle based? He canceled that program, so no worries.

Posted by: Methos at June 16, 2010 07:17 PM (Xsi7M)

298 295 Odumass is incompetent as a president. But he's Used-Car-Salesman-of-the-Year competent for selling lemons.
Posted by: dum blond at June 16, 2010 07:15 PM (gbCNS)
I think he will be a shoe in for a tennis commentator. He's got the head motion down reading the teleprompters.

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at June 16, 2010 07:17 PM (r1h5M)

299 He's not looking for that kind of oil...
AHHHHH Kratos got decadent. The end is nigh!

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at June 16, 2010 07:18 PM (cniXs)

300
Mommy, where does daddy keep the Magic Carpet?

Posted by: Malia at June 16, 2010 07:18 PM (v1gw3)

301 -->a lot of liberals didn't think Bush blew up the WTC.
They just thought that was a permissible, possibly-true theory,
requiring further investigation.



I don't care what liberals think or do. There is no connection between this well blowing and flying planes into buildings. I told you that I don't subscribe to this conspiracy, but for you to make a connection between the two ideas (one of which requires a cast of thousands - the other a few people) is pretty off the mark.
-->They were stupid then, and you are being dumb now.



If you say so.

-->This is exactly one step away from blaming the next tornado on Obama,
too.



Uh ... no. Oversight made mistakes. The question is whether those mistakes were incompetence, stupidity, laziness, or intention. I go with stupidity and a large dose of the the idea that the regulators didn't care if the well blew, since a spill would help their agenda.

-->When you're willing to believe anything... well, you are not employing
the gift of discrimination and wisdom.



Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 07:11 PM (66DVY)
I didn't say I believed the theory. I only said that it is not in the same league as the wild conspiracy theories that people like to compare everything to and I don't have any problem with someone musing about it. At least that person is closer to the true intentions of The Precedent than most others - though he is likely wrong on this particular idea.
I consider the blowing to have been a confluence of stupidity and the oversight of people who didn't care if a well blew. Then, after it blew, there's no question that The Precedent made it as bad as possible in order to push ideas of his that America hates and would serve to tear this nation apart even more than it is.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 16, 2010 07:18 PM (Qp4DT)

302 Rush Limbaugh takes phone calls from people, dude?

Yeah, you know, if you think it's healthy for a large number of people to start saying crank shit, fine.


Believe what you want. If your mind finds it comforting to keep putting most events into the same conspiracy template, fine. Then that is what you are good at; that is your comfort level.

But do know when you do so everyone else thinks you are 1, foolish, 2, gullible, and 3, questionable in terms of sanity.

And I have to tell you this because many are under the delusion that Sharron "Flouridation of Water and North American Union" Angle and this guy right here are speaking a truth the American people are hungry for.

In fact, they sound unserious and crank and a little bit stupid.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 07:20 PM (66DVY)

303 Have you never been in a job that was way above your capabilities, where the boss wanted to see if you would sink or swim? He's acting like that, and he's sinking: akin to "deer in the headlights" paralysis

I don't think he's even interested in proving his performance in terms of "sink or swim.". He likes to play king, he likes to have a captive audience. He likes sycophantic praise. He likes honeyed words. When it comes to actually working, he's just shiftless. Not really his concern.

Posted by: George Orwell at June 16, 2010 07:21 PM (AZGON)

304 I thought Gore caused it.

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 16, 2010 07:21 PM (CiQPx)

305 >>>I don't care what liberals think or do.

Yes you do. If I put up an article about THEIR florid beliefs you would read it, and probably enjoy it. It would be pleasing to you to draw distinctions between yourself and them.

>>> There is no connection between this well blowing and flying planes into buildings.

The hell there's not.

This is always the same thing -- conspiracy theories are like farts. Only your own don't smell bad.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 07:21 PM (66DVY)

306 We are approaching a William F. Buckley moment here.


Um, I hate to break it to you, ace, but WFB is dead. Do you mean a Zombie Bill Buckley moment?

Posted by: Eyegor at June 16, 2010 07:22 PM (mAm+G)

307 I don't like his dialect.

Posted by: Harry Reid at June 16, 2010 07:22 PM (JR2D9)

308 that Sharron "Flouridation of Water and North American Union" Angle
I missed this. Groaning. Where was this reported?

Posted by: Delta Smelt at June 16, 2010 07:22 PM (0pYSi)

309 Fannie and Freddie were delisted today which means they are essentially worthless but I believe they are still buying loans.
Hmmm. I wonder who will pay for the loans that default?

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at June 16, 2010 07:22 PM (r1h5M)

310 Odumass is incompetent as a president. But he's
Used-Car-Salesman-of-the-Year competent for selling lemons.

I thought the meme was this:

“Listen he’s a nice person, he’s very articulate” this is what’s been
used against him, “but he couldn’t sell watermelons if it, you gave him
the state troopers to flag down the traffic.”

what's the frequency kenneth????

Posted by: Vic at June 16, 2010 07:22 PM (6taRI)

311 The left can get away with conspiracies, we can't. We don't have the media on our side.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 07:23 PM (pEK05)

312 At the risk of sounding unserious, crank, and a little bit stupid, I still can't help but think in terms of a cross between The Boys from Brazil and the Manchurian Candidate.

Posted by: Wodeshed at June 16, 2010 07:23 PM (MFbfZ)

313 A whole lot of you are addicted to conspiracy theories because they're simple and all follow the exact same stupid pattern.There, I said it.And every time you spout off, thinking you're showing off how darn smart and perceptive you are, everyone else thinks you're a fool.So if you want to keep showing off your duncecaps, be my guest.Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 06:26 PM (66DVY)

One of my pet theories about the conspiracy theory mongers is that they have never really been in charge of anything.

Because if they had ever been responsible for even a smallish engineering project they would know that even with smart, competent, committed people and a well thought out 'conspiracy' plan, there's still all kinds of things that will go wrong.

No amount of super-secret ninja SEAL teams can keep Murphy's Law at bay. Yet the conspiracy theories always assume a perfect execution of the conspiracy.

Posted by: Mætenloch at June 16, 2010 07:23 PM (f5vi+)

314
Yeah, you know, if you think it's healthy for a large number of people
to start saying crank shit, fine.




I don't personally, but Maxine Waters and Sheila Jackson Lee are poster girls for conspiracy theorist. The best was Maxi's suggestion the CIA developed crack cocaine to hurt black people, and Jackson Lee's suggestion the manned space mission went to Mars. Loons R us!

Posted by: Fish at June 16, 2010 07:24 PM (v1gw3)

315 This kind of statement doesn't even help Mitt Romney or John McCain.

Posted by: Hugh Hewitt and Michael Medved at June 16, 2010 07:24 PM (JR2D9)

316 A simple litmus test for November: will you or will you not side with Obama in the destruction of this nation?

I will vote for a turnip as long as it answers that question correctly- which disqualifies Joe Biden. In fact, I might even prefer someone who's absolutely abhorrent to our betters on the left and right.

Posted by: t-bird at June 16, 2010 07:24 PM (/rCiW)

317 #303 AHHHHH Kratos got decadent. The end is nigh!
Describing the disgusting, decadent actions of others does not make one decadent.

/But you're right anyways - the end is nigh.

Posted by: Kratos (missing from the side of Mt Olympus) at June 16, 2010 07:25 PM (c0A3e)

318 delta smelt, it's linked in the hot air article near the top about Dick Armey distancing himself from the tea party brand.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 07:25 PM (66DVY)

319 You obviously took my word out of
context... but hey, that's ok.

Posted by: Hussein the Plumber at June 16, 2010 07:16 PM (r1h5M)
I only meant that the BP Chairman used the exact phrase "small people."

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 07:25 PM (W+GYq)

320 This kind of statement doesn't even help Mitt Romney or John McCain
Or Mike Huckabee.

Posted by: Chuck Norris at June 16, 2010 07:26 PM (0pYSi)

321 I really really really despise conspiracy theorists.

I remember going back and forth with some dope on FreeRepublic* who was dead certain we covered up terrorists on a boat shooting down TWA800 with a Man Portable Anti-Air Missile. As a qualified operator of what was then the most lethal system of the type, I had to tell him that would have been a sort of difficult nightime shot from off the back of a small boat.

He never could adequately explain how Clinton managed to bribe the 100s of people involved in reconstructing the crash to keep their mouths shut.

*I like FreeRepublic, but maybe its time JimRob rethought the whole "let's give birthers a forum to obsess about the latest 'development' in the case for forcing Teleprompter Jesus to SHOW US HIS LONGFORM BIRTH CERTIFICATE! eleventy!!!!" thing.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at June 16, 2010 07:27 PM (ZESU0)

322 I don't think BP and Obama collaborated and they caused the spill, but I do think that Obama is dragging his heels on it to get cap and trade, and because Soros the Puppet Master is further enriched if drilling goes to Brazil. If indeed he did drag his heels because of that it is quite simply cold blooded and cold hearted EVIL.

Posted by: FenelonSpoke at June 16, 2010 07:27 PM (7ucdd)

323 @ace
Thanks.

Posted by: Delta Smelt at June 16, 2010 07:27 PM (0pYSi)

324 Another thing that happens here is that some people don't buy the conspiracy theory themselves, but they want to "keep it on the table' as a possibility, that is, keep it alive as an argument, thinking that this helps our side and brings in voters.

It doesn't. I was briefly and advocate and I know that nothing hurts your three good arguments like throwing in a really shitty argument at the end. The hearer immediately dismisses that and THEN proceeds to dismiss your good arguments, too, reasoning, properly, that if you don't have the judgment to see that your last argument was full of shit, then your other three arguments are probably full of shit too.

The "everything at the wall" tactic does not work.

if it did Alan Keyes would be president.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 07:28 PM (66DVY)

325 No amount of super-secret ninja SEAL teams can keep Murphy's Law at bay. Yet the conspiracy theories always assume a perfect execution of the conspiracy.
Posted by: Mætenloch at June 16, 2010 07:23 PM (f5vi+)
On the flip side of that theyhave never been involved in complex engineering/building. Accidents happen, they really do. Equipment fails, componets fail, the engineer put a decimal in the wrong place.
Shit happens.

Posted by: robtr at June 16, 2010 07:28 PM (fwSHf)

326 144
Gee, it's not like super-sophisticated fairly-new machinery could EVER
just FAIL on its own or anything.

Oil makes machinery run better, ace, it doesn't cause machinery to break. Google it!

Posted by: Rosie O'Donnell at June 16, 2010 07:28 PM (saRwI)

327 No amount of super-secret ninja SEAL teams can keep
Murphy's Law at bay. Yet the conspiracy theories always assume a perfect execution of
the conspiracy.


Posted by: Mætenloch at June 16, 2010 07:23 PM (f5vi+)
This is because conspiracy theories are constructed after the event. It's pretty easy to assume perfect execution in hindsight because the event actually happened -- whereas I have not seen any examples of a conspiracy theory constructed in advance that then ended up being carried out exactly as described. Except in novels and movies, that is.

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 07:30 PM (W+GYq)

328 Jack Tripper would make a better candidate. But only if Chrissy did all his commercials in a bikini.

Posted by: Doc at June 16, 2010 07:30 PM (rzJpR)

329 Wow, I did not realize we actually had conspiracy theorizing going on right here on the thread.

Remember how stupid the troofers sounded when they claimed the "smirking chimp" pulled off a conspiracy to take down the twin towers and the Pentagon so he could go to war for oil in Iraq?

Remember.
How.
Stupid.
That.
Was.

Well, that's you right now.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at June 16, 2010 07:30 PM (ZESU0)

330 Oil makes machinery run better, ace, it doesn't cause machinery to break. Google it!
Preach it!

Posted by: Tin Man at June 16, 2010 07:30 PM (0pYSi)

331 Want to cap my gusher?

Posted by: al gore at June 16, 2010 07:31 PM (7b1Uc)

332 If the MFM can get/find/make up three or four more Rand Paul Civil Rights Act snafus, a couple birthers, a couple of these OilGaters, and one violent Tea Partier to parade across the TV screen from now until November they can save the Democrat majorities.

That is the prism the media people and the White Crib are looking through.

The more people lose their cool, the more it helps Barry and the Chicago KGB.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 07:31 PM (JR2D9)

333 And this is a problem because we seem to be choosing some representatives here who are also bewitched by goofy conspiracy theories, and also, people feel pressured, I think, to act as if there is some merit to them.

Like John Kerry did when asked about Trutherism, or John Edwards did.

We attacked them for pandering to conspiracy theorists, offering moral support to ugly (and unbalanced) theories.

But here we are, aren't we?

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 07:31 PM (66DVY)

334
I know that some of you just cannot help but claiming that everything
that happens is due to conspiracy.


No, dude. That's your conspiracy. Or paranoia.

Posted by: a concerned boo berry at June 16, 2010 07:32 PM (m8h4o)

335 What's the difference between believingthe response wasgross negligence being a conspiracy theorist? I see many on this site as ascribing to the former not the latter.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 07:33 PM (Yq+qN)

336 Unintended consequences.

BP took shortcuts because they wanted to save some time and money with the drilling project.. MMS approved these shortcuts because the Administration and BP were in cahoots for various reasons including green initiatives, profits, and campaign donations. There was a conspiracy to further their agendas, not to cause a disaster. Their schemes backfired, literally, and created the unintended consequences, ie, this disaster.

Thanks to previous and current behavior it is easy to believe that the Administration allowed the spill to grow as an excuse for furthering the aganda, but never ascribe to malice what can be easily attributed to incompetence.

Once the disaster occurred BP and the Administration had to work together, ie conspire, to cover each other's asses as to responsibility and to take advantage of an opportunity to exploit a crisis. It remains to be seen what unintended consequences come of this secondary conspiracy.

Posted by: davidt at June 16, 2010 07:33 PM (HtIec)

337 No amount of super-secret ninja SEAL teams can keep Murphy's Law at bay. Yet the conspiracy theories always assume a perfect execution of the conspiracy.
Wouldn't the fact that people were talking about the 'conspiracy', as it was, mean the conspiracy failed to come off 'perfectly' ?
Besides. Steel doesn't Burn!...Underwater!!!!

Posted by: Conspiracy Brother at June 16, 2010 07:33 PM (FtWwU)

338 But here we are, aren't we?
Only because you are bickering with the Morons rather than linking Hot Air pieces or apologizing for somethin' or other.

Posted by: garrett at June 16, 2010 07:35 PM (FtWwU)

339 If Obama conspired to blow up that rig, he would be a mass murderer. I'm not sure he would risk the death penalty for Cap And Trade.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 07:35 PM (pEK05)

340 What's the difference between believingthe response wasgross negligence being a conspiracy theorist? I see many on this site as ascribing to the former not the latter.
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 07:33 PM (Yq+qN)
Because I can point to about 10 things he should have done 6 weeks ago and didn't, unless you believe that fits into a conspiracy. I don't, I believe it points to incompetence.
Beside the fact that I can't see any upside for there to be a conspiracy.

Posted by: robtr at June 16, 2010 07:36 PM (fwSHf)

341 It was a accident. Anyone who thinks it wasnt is well, crazy.
Think about this. More men have walked on the moon than have ever been 5 miles under the sea.
Not even Navy Seals.

Posted by: Racefan at June 16, 2010 07:37 PM (T0qTK)

342 You took Randall's words out of context to advance your own agenda, and you know it.

Posted by: Ace has some serious credibility issues lately at June 16, 2010 07:37 PM (sYrWB)

343 340 is a "good" conspiracy theory.

If you need to believe in conspiracy theories, there's your conspiracy theory.

(It's also likely true, though he skips over the part about BP and all oil drillers conspiring with MMS and poltiicians to keep safeguards at the most minimal level.)

Mary Landrieu and many of our own GOP Senators, I'm sure, went along with the lame "failsafes" the law required and did not demand more.

Well, now Mary Landrieu is going to have her state soaked in oil, and the GOP senators who were a little too anti-regulation for their own good see their own drill, baby, drill plans destroyed.

Were they in on the conspiracy too?

Are they all working "the long game"?



Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 07:37 PM (66DVY)

344 Wow.

Let's all us Francises lighten up a bit.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 07:38 PM (JR2D9)

345
Gee, it's not like super-sophisticated fairly-new machinery could EVER
just FAIL on its own or anything.




No, brah, it's more likely due to human error. Someone fucked up. Just like almost all plane crashes are caused by human error, this explosion probably was to.


Posted by: a concerned boo berry at June 16, 2010 07:38 PM (m8h4o)

346 Did somebody say cock knocker?

Posted by: Perez Hilton with teal highlights and a pink feather boa at June 16, 2010 07:40 PM (9r6eV)

347 >>I have not seen any examples of a conspiracy theory constructed in advance that then ended up being carried out exactly as described.

Here's one, Operation Ajax. It's even somewhat relevant to the current topic.

Of course when the CIA does it it's called a plan not a conspiracy.

Posted by: JackStraw at June 16, 2010 07:40 PM (VW9/y)

348 I'm pretty sure Sarah Palin endorsed this guy! I think she did! I'm posting it on Twitter!!!!111!!!
If it turns out she didn't, that just means she's a racist who won't endorse black candidates!!11!!
Checkmate, Ms. Palin. Check... Mate.

Posted by: Roger Ebert, political strategist at June 16, 2010 07:40 PM (Ks4nX)

349 Besides. Steel doesn't Burn!...Underwater!!!!

Posted by: Conspiracy Brother at June 16, 2010 07:33 PM (FtWwU)
For a time, I shared an office with a moonbat who was on the verge of buying into 9/11 Trutherism. She was even quoting Rosie O'Donnell's "fire doesn't melt steel" line.Then a gasoline tanker truck fell off the skyway on the Nimitz Freeway in Oakland and caught fire. The fire melted the girders under the roadway above, and the road went all limp like a noodle. It was priceless to see the look on this woman's face as she examined the news photos and muttered, "wow, the fire melted the steel roadway...."As Will Rogers said (I think it was him), "It ain't what he don't know that worries me, it's what he knows that just ain't so."

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 07:40 PM (W+GYq)

350 I will admit that I thought Putin killed the leader of Poland for a while. Just because he seems like such an evil dick.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 07:41 PM (JR2D9)

351
/strips naked

/runs across the room with a stalk of celery in my butt to distract everyone for a moment

Posted by: MacGruber at June 16, 2010 07:42 PM (m8h4o)

352 344 Because I can point to about 10 things he should have done 6 weeks ago and didn't, unless you believe that fits into a conspiracy. I don't, I believe it points to incompetence.
Beside the fact that I can't see any upside for there to be a conspiracy.
I personally don't think it fits a conspiracy; however, I can see an argue for gross negligence as far as the response is concerned. The Obama Admin considered themselves to be more knowledgeable than the experts ignored the pleas of local leaders. Not only that, but the Brits are furious with him for the way he seemed to blame their entire nation. The response has been inept, negligent, uncoordinated, chaotic, irresponsible.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 07:43 PM (Yq+qN)

353 This is always the same thing -- conspiracy theories are like farts. Only your own don't smell bad.
Mine smell bad?

Posted by: rdbrewer at June 16, 2010 07:44 PM (CiQPx)

354


I need the names of the SEALs or ex-SEALS (and who else could do secret
deep-water demolition).






Any SEAL that dove a mile down would be crushed to about the size of a volleyball or less.

Can dolphins even dive that deep?

Posted by: s'moron at June 16, 2010 07:44 PM (UaxA0)

355 I would note, for whatever reason, that the spill wasn't caused by the well blowing. It was the platform sinking (as they put the fire out) and destroying the pipe that caused the oil to start spilling like crazy.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 16, 2010 07:45 PM (Qp4DT)

356 >>>>Ace, that fluttering sound you heard was your credibility on the entire topic of oil drilling flying out the window.

What are you, a fucking idiot? You're sitting here arguing that Obama's Evil Scheme now gets cap and trade passed, and I'm not allowed to point out that this means the GOP's plans for drill baby drill have lost?

And to question, then, why it is they aided in this conspiracy?

Oh right-- right right right. Even though Obama would need Congress on his side to execute this conspiracy (in as much as he needed there to be no relief well drilled here), we're going to assume they weren't in on it, just dupes, and only Obama was in on it, because we don't like him.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 07:45 PM (66DVY)

357 @282 I rather suspect this shadow of a half-man is so vacant and unearthly in his view of himself in the world that a real disaster like the BP spill strikes him with no more immediacy and reality than drawing a "Go Directly to Jail" card in a game of Monopoly...
Never forget he called himself a blank screen upon which people project their fantasies.
Posted by: George Orwell at June 16, 2010 07:09 PM (AZGON)
As vivid and accuratea portrait as I've ever seen painted ofthe Narcissist in Chief. And so many people don't get why his actions/reactions frequently seeminappropriate to the given situation.

Posted by: EyeTest at June 16, 2010 07:46 PM (ip+1t)

358 I personally don't think it fits a conspiracy; however, I can see an argue for gross negligence as far as the response is concerned. The Obama Admin considered themselves to be more knowledgeable than the experts ignored the pleas of local leaders. Not only that, but the Brits are furious with him for the way he seemed to blame their entire nation. The response has been inept, negligent, uncoordinated, chaotic, irresponsible.
Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 07:43 PM (Yq+qN)
Heh, well we're pretty much on the same page. Incompetence is real though. I have worked on large construction projects my whole life and have met alot of very well educated, very incompetent people.

Posted by: robtr at June 16, 2010 07:46 PM (fwSHf)

359 Sorry, to maintain credibility I have to be shoulder-to-shoulder with Crazypants Conspiracy Guy up here.

I have to turn all criticism of Obama to eleven(ty) and claim that everything he does is a vicious plot to enslave me.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 07:47 PM (66DVY)

360 Finally! Something for that asshole Aquaman to do besides stand around and clean the pool.

Posted by: Justice League of America at June 16, 2010 07:48 PM (JR2D9)

361 @236: "Let me repeat: Every one of you said he was incompetent for three years running now, and now that his incompetence is demonstrated, you claim "oh no, he's SUPER competent; all this is by perfect design." Ridiculous."
Except that the exact same argument worked wonders against Dubya and Cheney - utter fucking dipshits who could organize grand conspiracies against the nation.

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at June 16, 2010 07:48 PM (kmEfr)

362 I personally don't think it fits a
conspiracy; however, I can see an argue for gross negligence as far as the
response is concerned.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 07:43 PM (Yq+qN)
The response was, clearly, worse than mere gross negligence. It was intentional stalling by The Precedent, exactly the same way he did with the Afghan troop requests. And, eerily, he hadn't bothered to even talk to the CEO of BP in all that time just as he hadn't bothered to meet with Petraeus while he was supposed to be mulling over his options. The parallel was unmistakable and impossible to deny.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 16, 2010 07:48 PM (Qp4DT)

363 In the end, there won't be much outcry when he rams Cap and Trade through during the lame duck session because of this spill...so, mission soon to be accomplished.

Posted by: devilish at June 16, 2010 07:48 PM (vyRPu)

364 Well, now Mary Landrieu is going to have her state soaked in oil, and the GOP senators who were a little too anti-regulation for their own good see their own drill, baby, drill plans destroyed.
So it really was the fault of the GOP Bush?? Many of the articles I've seen, including this piece from Byron York, explain that the Administration was distracted by green energy policies. How about enforcing pre-existing laws? Every time something like this happens, we get more laws instead of using the ones we already have.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 07:48 PM (Yq+qN)

365 It's gotta be pretty hard to blow up a rig, get the wounded and men evacuating to leave open all the watertight doors so thatyou overload a burning drilling rig 4 miles above the drilling location with water from firehose/cannons so that it collapses juuuuuust right, just so, falling four miles exactly where you want it to go, and have it crush and fracture the pipe, and cause the blowout preventer to fail. And make a big oil spill.

That is really, really hard to do.

But hey, I'm no engineer. I suppose it's possible.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at June 16, 2010 07:49 PM (Wh0W+)

366 I can't get past the mass murder for Cap and Trade aspect of this conspiracy. That and the lack of any actual evidence.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 07:49 PM (pEK05)

367 Banned?

Posted by: garrett at June 16, 2010 07:49 PM (5eoYu)

368 Well, now Mary Landrieu is going to have her state soaked in oil, and
the GOP senators who were a little too anti-regulation for their own
good see their own drill, baby, drill plans destroyed.

What are you talking about? I haven't heard from anyone in the affected regions who wants less drilling. Louisianans in particular need the revenues to fight coastal erosion. Even if some chickenshits in the rest of the country are pissing and moaning about domestic drilling, they'll change their tune when gas prices catch up to reality.

Really, on this end of Drill, Baby, Drill, I think you're being truthy, ace.

Posted by: Methos at June 16, 2010 07:50 PM (Xsi7M)

369 I hope that was the Glitch!

Posted by: garrett at June 16, 2010 07:50 PM (5eoYu)

370
Ace has two modes: funny ha-ha and angry frustrated.

It's threads like these that makes me think Ace is disappointed and ashamed of his commenters.



Posted by: a concerned MacGruber at June 16, 2010 07:50 PM (m8h4o)

371 I have to turn all criticism of Obama to eleven(ty)
and claim that everything he does is a vicious plot to enslave me.



Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 07:47 PM (66DVY)
He doesn't want to enslave you. He just wants you to suffer immense pain and cease being part of a world power. That is behind pretty much everything he does. He is going for scorched-Earth in the US and the West - as much as he is able.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 16, 2010 07:52 PM (Qp4DT)

372 How about enforcing pre-existing laws?
How about using pre-exisiting contingency plants? And accept offers of aid? And let local government act without EPA approval? And take advantage of American ingenuity by implementing the hay cleanup, hair mats, etc?

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at June 16, 2010 07:53 PM (cniXs)

373 (It's also likely true, though he skips over the part
about BP and all oil drillers conspiring with MMS and poltiicians to
keep safeguards at the most minimal level.)




Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 07:37 PM (66DVY)
That overstates the case. Oil drillers have every incentive for their wells to operate safely... in the design phase. It's when the pressures of the real world build up -- schedule delays, cost overruns, equipment and personnel shortages -- that they choose to go for shortcuts and workarounds.The blowout preventer on this well was designed to handle this accident... except for the fact that it was partially disabled for testing and was also partially disabled due to a hydraulics leak. The irony is that BP spent the money on the safeguards, but failed to get their money's worth by letting the safeguards deteriorate.So there was an element of conspiracy in that the MMS acted as enablers rather than regulators when they approved the shortcuts BP proposed. Again, it was a combination of laziness and incompetence and unjustified optimism rather than malice.

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 07:54 PM (W+GYq)

374 I give this thread a B+.

Posted by: Barack Obama at June 16, 2010 07:54 PM (5eoYu)

375 Well, Mr. Smarty Pants, I suppose fire burned that steel oil rig?
Explain that!

Posted by: Rosy O at June 16, 2010 07:55 PM (zMEiS)

376 If this isn't a conspiracy, explain me why the Administration hasn't ORDERED Hillary Clinton to HIT THE RESET BUTTON!!!

Why the hell did we develop the RESET BUTTON if we weren't prepared to USE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Former 52 %er at June 16, 2010 07:55 PM (YZISw)

377 peppered with Leftist talking points.

I'll
walk away now. Beat your chest as long as you like.


Posted by: The War Between the Undead States
Before you walk away beating ace's chest or whatever, here is a Lefty talking point for you to ponder:How many people had to be bought to keep this thing hush-hush?


Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at June 16, 2010 07:55 PM (ZESU0)

378 In 20 years, God willing, our old asses will be sitting in rocking chairs trying to remember Obama's name.

He's out of a job in 2012, as long as nobody does anything too stupid on our side.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 07:55 PM (JR2D9)

379 Lots of words.. and I like word.

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at June 16, 2010 07:56 PM (ph9vn)

380 combination of laziness and incompetence and unjustified optimism rather than malice.
Unbridled Enthusiasm, even!

Posted by: Billy Mumphrey at June 16, 2010 07:56 PM (5eoYu)

381 Ace, please stop running off the comic relief.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 07:57 PM (pEK05)

382 @360
http://tinyurl.com/2beroqs

infographic: tallest mountain to deepest ocean trench



Posted by: texasmamma at June 16, 2010 07:57 PM (4L69q)

383 >>>>I haven't heard from anyone in the affected regions who wants less drilling. Louisianans in particular need the revenues to fight coastal erosion.

You don't seem able to follow my point. Maybe that's my fault.

Here, let me explain:

1) If there were a conspiracy, GOP senators and gulf-region Dem Senators would be helpful to have on board, because, to make a disaster, you need the spill to be out of control, and these senators could have required a relief well, but didn't.

2) So, if you want to believe in a conspiracy, you have to decide if Landrieu and GOP senators were merely dupes or active participants, and you really shouldn't decide based solely on party label.

3) It seems unlikely they were in on the conspiracy because Landrieu's home state is now threatened as is the GOP's pro-energy policy.

4) HOWEVER, if you're going to say it's unlikely THEY were involved because the spill HURTS them, how can you say Obama's behind it? Have you seen the polls? This really might wind up being his legacy -- as a one-term failed president. So what is this crap that he's doing this to benefit?

That was my point. The conspiracy theorists would be quick to say a GOP Senator had nothing to do with the conspiracy -- obviously, he didn't. Because the oil spill hurts the GOP.

And yet... here's Obama, down at his lowest poll numbers ever, and people want to claim obviously Obama's behind this because he benefits in "the long game."

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 07:57 PM (66DVY)

384 I can't get past the mass murder for Cap and Trade aspect of this conspiracy. That and the lack of any actual evidence.
Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 07:49 PM (pEK05)
I don't see this doing anything to move cap and trade forward any faster than it already has been going. One thing that kind puts another kink in a conspiracy theory is that Reid already had a deal on cap and trade before the accident. Obama had him pull it and put immigration in it's place which pissed off Grahamnesty and ended cap and trade.
I just don't get the upside for anyone in this disaster.

Posted by: robtr at June 16, 2010 07:57 PM (fwSHf)

385 Ace, You know you were quoted in the Washington Times today about soccer?

Posted by: dagny at June 16, 2010 07:57 PM (DNCvM)

386 Why the hell did we develop the RESET BUTTON if we weren't prepared to
USE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



You will recall that they misspelled Reset. On PURPOSE!!!11!

Posted by: Wodeshed at June 16, 2010 07:58 PM (MFbfZ)

387 In 20 years, God willing, our old asses will be sitting in rocking chairs trying to remember Obama's name.
No way will we be that lucky. He's going to be Jimmah on steroids in retirement, just like he's Jimmah on steroids now.

Posted by: bebe's boobs destroy at June 16, 2010 07:58 PM (cniXs)

388
you guys here the theory positing that former Beatle Paul McCartney has been dead since the '60's?

Now that's wacky. McCartney died in the '90's.

Posted by: a concerned MacGruber at June 16, 2010 07:58 PM (m8h4o)

389 Posted by: davidt at June 16, 2010 07:33 PM (HtIec)

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 07:37 PM (66DVY)

ace, you admit that davidt is most likely right in what he typed, and you add more likely true stuff, but then ended with a snarky question.

A lot of people in BP and the government screwed this deal up royally, and all of their intersecting bad decisions and behaviors have caused a real disaster to occur.

penny-wise and pound foolish, the lot of them. BP wanted to shave a few bucks, and it's gonna cost them billions

anti-regulation folks wanted to let companies shave a few bucks and file less paperwork, and we're gonna see a shitpile of new regulations now.

Posted by: ingrid newkirk at June 16, 2010 07:58 PM (fuemy)

390 I know why some people are frustrated, as some of us aremore affected by this than others. Louisiana is my neighbour state, their economy is going to be severely impacted. I'm sure that will happen here in Houston as well. Not only that, but I know people in the oil industry (my dad, for one) who's jobs are now at-risk (more than ever) due to Crap--Tax. I don't think that's fair, that thePresident is punishingeveryone for someone else's mistakes.Perhaps we should focus on that.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 07:58 PM (Yq+qN)

391 Paul McCartney's brain died in the '60's. His body is still cashing the royalty checks.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 07:59 PM (JR2D9)

392 Here's the contra: If you're going to create a crisis that allows you to become the hero, you must heed two rules.

1. The crisis has to be large enough to be noticed BUT small enough that you can solve it. A runaway oil blowout in no shape or form fits this.

A tanker spill, a much more common event, would have fit this rule perfectly. (Check out that sidebar story for ref.)

2. The solution to the manufactured crisis must ready and waiting. Having a stupid lawyer bitch as the head of MMS, and closing the emergency response team is not preparation.

Preparation is mega-funding in place last year for the EPA, MMS, etc. "Having it covered" is emergency planning and exercises with oil co.s and the Navy. That's how you pull of a crisis.

The conspiracy fails both rules.

Posted by: Garbonzo the Garrulous at June 16, 2010 08:00 PM (zgd5N)

393 It's just incompetence and vast vast vast amounts of arrogance.

Posted by: dagny at June 16, 2010 08:00 PM (DNCvM)

394 Just like almost all plane crashes are caused by human error, this explosion probably was to.
Posted by: a concerned boo berry at June 16, 2010 07:38 PM (m8h4o)
...............
Human error in this? More than likely there was.But it still boils down to I dont think anyone put togeather a plan and pulled it off.............

Posted by: Racefan at June 16, 2010 08:00 PM (T0qTK)

395 Just so y'all know, FEMA is all over this bitch.
Actually, they just redirect you to a different .gov website so you can file a claim.
Who's in charge again?

Posted by: ErikW at June 16, 2010 08:01 PM (9r6eV)

396 Thanks to previous and current behavior it is easy to believe that the Administration allowed the spill to grow as an excuse for furthering the agenda, but never ascribe to malice what can be easily attributed to incompetence.

Incompetence is stronger than you imagine. And maybe stronger than any of can imagine.

Because no matter how carefully designed a system is, no matter how many safeguards are built in, no matter how much training you do, there's always some idiot that manages to drop a wrench in the flux capacitor and then decides to use the hose to flush it out.

Posted by: Mætenloch at June 16, 2010 08:01 PM (f5vi+)

397 Can't tell you how many times I've reached for a butter knife to retrieve a piece of stuck toast and had to stop myself.

Dipshits happen.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 08:02 PM (JR2D9)

398 You know what? I give up. I'm afraid some of you require me to accuse Obama of active intentional malice OR you think I'm defending him.

It doesn't matter how many times I say this is gross negligence.

So, look, it seems that the only way to criticize Obama properly, for some of you, is to accuse him of being behind a conspiracy theory, and I think that is 1) stupid and 2) psychologically deficient, and I won't do that, but I also don't want to "defend" Obama, which is apparently what i'm doing when I insist he be accused only of non-insane things.

So I'm stopping now.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 08:03 PM (66DVY)

399 #403 Because no matter how carefully designed a system is, no matter how
many safeguards are built in, no matter how much training you do,
there's always some idiot that manages to drop a wrench in the flux
capacitor and then decides to use the hose to flush it out.

And nothing is "absolutely safe".

Posted by: Kratos (missing from the side of Mt Olympus) at June 16, 2010 08:03 PM (9hSKh)

400 There is the possibility of Lectroids.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 08:03 PM (JR2D9)

401
btw, Ace, you said that BP limited its liability with its action today.

If you think BP is going to weather this storm and come out of it you're mistaken. BP will be bankrupt within a couple of years from now. That's my prediction, anyway.

It won't stop at $20B. Or even $100B. BP is going to be sued by everyone. Everyone.


Posted by: a concerned MacGruber at June 16, 2010 08:03 PM (m8h4o)

402 Because no matter how carefully designed a system is, no matter how many
safeguards are built in, no matter how much training you do, there's
always some idiot that manages to drop a wrench in the flux capacitor
and then decides to use the hose to flush it out.


Reminds me of a favorite saying of a surgeon friend of mine: "Never say something is idiot-proof, because idiots are fucking INGENIOUS!"

Posted by: Wodeshed at June 16, 2010 08:03 PM (MFbfZ)

403 I don't believe that the oil spill was anything but an accident of negligence and corruption. I do believe that Obama's response was based off his grand intellect thinking that he could use strategery to minimize personal damage and expand public favor for his Cap and Trade legislation.

His self-importance and inexperience, as usual, do more hurt than help. I'm sure he's thinking he just needs to keep tweaking the optics. He is a narcissist who can do no wrong and all his problems are caused by others who can't execute his brilliant plans properly.

Posted by: devilish at June 16, 2010 08:04 PM (vyRPu)

404 We're with pop on this one, or he is with us, because he has been reading our posts.
But in other news ......
Interesting, isn't it, that we haven't heard a peep out of Mark Rubio lately, and he is no longer Sean Hannity's and Rush Limbaugh's golden boy, ever since he sided with Democrats against Jan Brewer's legislation in Arizona? It's going to be a closer race between Rubio and Crist in Florida than some of you supposed.

Posted by: Ace has some serious credibility issues lately at June 16, 2010 08:04 PM (sYrWB)

405 It's threads like these that makes me think Ace is disappointed and ashamed of his commenters.
Not the commenters, just the fools. Those who think BP would have caused this, or think that Obama would have damaged BPfor his own ends, are fools. (If Obama wanted to sabotage a rig, he'd have sabotaged a much less StuffWhitePeopleLike company - Exxon, maybe.)
Those of us who are not fools would prefer that reasoned argument convince the fool to abandon his folly but, that hardly ever happens. There's that annoying factor that goes by the initials "I.Q.". Some people just don't score enough. I put the cutoff around 120, which means most people are stupid.
"Disappointment" and "shame" best refer to one who has a vested interest in the threads here. I wouldn't feel shame at seeing the fools here; much less disappointment - as a misanthrope, I'm disappointed very rarely. I think the last person who successfully disappointed me onlinewas Dennis Mangan and before that, Charles Johnson.
But Ace owns these threads and that means he owns the fools on them too.
Since he's not about to ban dozens of (literal) morons from his "moron" ranks, best he can do is to keep arguing.

Posted by: Zimriel at June 16, 2010 08:04 PM (2F9Z1)

406 -->4) HOWEVER, if you're going to say it's unlikely
THEY were involved because the spill HURTS them,

I have no idea how you got to the idea that Senators would have to be involved.

-->how can you say Obama's
behind it? Have you seen the polls? This really might wind up being
his legacy -- as a one-term failed president. So what is this crap that
he's doing this to benefit?



The Precedent doesn't care about his poll numbers. He never did. He's not about polls. He doesn't care what Americans think of him. If he gets his wish, there won't be any America left to think anything of him.

-->That was my point. The conspiracy theorists would be quick to say a GOP
Senator had nothing to do with the conspiracy -- obviously, he didn't.
Because the oil spill hurts the GOP.


Again, I'll let this go because I have no idea where it comes from.


-->And yet... here's Obama, down at his lowest poll numbers ever, and
people want to claim obviously Obama's behind this because he benefits
in "the long game."



Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 07:57 PM (66DVY)
Again, you seem to think that The Precedent wants to go down in history as some great American Precedent. He doesn't. He wants to go down in history as the third worlder who took the US down. He hates us. He has nothing but contempt for us. I don't know why this is so difficult to see. Every word, policy and action of The Precedent screams it out loud.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 16, 2010 08:05 PM (Qp4DT)

407 (If Obama wanted to sabotage a rig, he'd have sabotaged a much less StuffWhitePeopleLike company - Exxon, maybe.)
heh. Yup.
Or possibly Ewing Oil.

Posted by: Delta Smelt at June 16, 2010 08:07 PM (0pYSi)

408 How many here are actually advocating the conspiracy theory ace is attacking though? That Obama was behind the accident. One? Two? It doesn't seem like enough for him to be blowing up like he is.

Posted by: buzzion at June 16, 2010 08:08 PM (oVQFe)

409 @391: "I just don't get the upside for anyone in this disaster."
Huge upside for the gummint. New rules to pass. New fees and taxes to collect. More control to extend. The classic statist tactic: more government creates new problems that can only be solved by more government.

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at June 16, 2010 08:08 PM (kmEfr)

410 William F. Buckley moment - WFB decided at one point that the Conservative movement had to divest itself of the John Birchers because having their rabid support was not worth the downside of having the Conservative movement associated with the rabidly stupid (and IIRC racist and dangerous) shit they spouted from time to time.

There will come a time (or it may already be here) when today's Conservatives need to disavow and toss out from their midst conspiracy theorists and other nitwits, because sensible people who would otherwise support us in 2010 and 2012 may turn away from us out of revulsion at the chuckleheads we allow ourselves to be associated with.

Ace is spot on here. You don't let lunatics into your big tent, because they will scare away other people who might want to enter the tent - and who the hell wants to be in a tent with lunatics anyway?

Posted by: Z as in Jersey at June 16, 2010 08:08 PM (kZT4X)

411 Onshore Oil Spill Response Is Described As Chaotic
June 14
“I still don’t know who’s in charge. Is it BP? Is it the Coast Guard?” BILLY NUNGESSER, Plaquemines Parish president

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 08:08 PM (Yq+qN)

412 OT NON-CONSPIRACY: from prisonplanet:

The federal government would have “absolute power” to shut down the
Internet under the terms of a new US Senate bill being pushed by Joe
Lieberman, legislation which would hand President Obama a figurative
“kill switch” to seize control of the world wide web in response to a
Homeland Security directive.

See now, the actual crap they are doing is worse.

Posted by: Guy Fawkes at June 16, 2010 08:08 PM (T0bhq)

413 Yeah, who thinks Obama helped blow up the rig?

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 08:08 PM (pEK05)

414 How would the mind of a Truthers take this. There will be some soon if not already.

BP got billions from the government and Obama will get his dictator powers.
What couldthey be called. Oiler, BPer.Oilers for truth.4/20 was an inside job.

Posted by: oil covered dead pelican at June 16, 2010 08:09 PM (KjOeq)

415 I have no doubt that Obama dragged his feet on the BP spill on purpose.

He knew his numbers would drop no matter what, so he hoped that the worse the spill appeared to be, the more ammunition the left would have against the "drill, baby, drill" crowd.

Posted by: King Friday at June 16, 2010 08:09 PM (WTw4/)

416 Obama reminds me of a snotty foreign exchange student that gets all the girls in class because of his accent, then fails the finals because he didn't do the homework.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 08:09 PM (JR2D9)

417 It won't stop at $20B. Or even $100B. BP is going to be sued by everyone. Everyone.
Posted by: a concerned MacGruber at June 16, 2010 08:03 PM (m8h4o)
You know I thought that too when I first heard about it. The more I think about it the more I think BP cut a pretty good deal for itself. The deal is that it pays $5 Billion a year for 4 years. If someone sues BP because they lost their job or their business failed BP has a pretty good defense.
They have funded a program approved by the President of the United States. IMO it would be hard to argue that the Presidents program just didn't work for you.

Posted by: robtr at June 16, 2010 08:09 PM (fwSHf)

418 Posted by: texasmamma at June 16, 2010 07:57 PM (4L69q)

Thanks, mamma.

Posted by: davidt at June 16, 2010 08:10 PM (HtIec)

419
but seriously...

anyone else think David Stern conspired with Doc Rivers and Phil Jackson to stretch the series out to seven games?

yeah, me neither.

Posted by: a concerned MacGruber at June 16, 2010 08:10 PM (m8h4o)

420 Yeah, who thinks Obama helped blow up the rig?
Yo.

Posted by: Alex Jones at June 16, 2010 08:10 PM (9r6eV)

421 Interesting, isn't it, that we haven't heard a
peep out of Mark Rubio lately, and he is no longer Sean Hannity's and
Rush Limbaugh's golden boy, ever since he sided with Democrats against
Jan Brewer's legislation in Arizona? It's going to be a closer race
between Rubio and Crist in Florida than some of you supposed.

Posted by: Ace has some serious credibility issues lately at June 16,
2010 08:04 PM (sYrWB)
Actually, Rubio isn't silent. Via Jim Geraghty's Campaign Spot on NRO, Rubio echoes Ace's suggestion that GOP politicians tell Obama to focus on plugging the hole and not on Cap Trade:



Earlier today, I was pleased that President Obama finally made it down
to Florida to see firsthand the Gulf Oil Spill’s impact on our economy
and environment. For 57 days, Gulf states have been reeling from the
impact of this spill, and it’s important to send the message that
Florida remains open for business.




Nonetheless, there is a justified sense of frustration among all
Floridians regarding the government’s delayed response, especially in
terms of overseeing the boom, mobilizing skimmers from around the world,
utilizing tourism promotion money and promptly processing economic
claims. Local governments still feel there is too much bureaucracy in
the response coordination, too little communication, and that’s why they
are pushing back. Ultimately, there is a lack of leadership, while
mistrust is the prevailing sentiment.


For example, I’ve spoken to fishermen in Destin and across the
Panhandle who were hurting even before the spill because of government
regulations. Their challenges have since been exacerbated. Floridians
and our fellow Gulf states don’t need any more sound bites or dithering.
We deserve deliberate action to cut through the red tape that is
holding back disaster mitigation efforts. We need action.


Floridians and our Gulf neighbors have been through a lot of hardships
in recent years, but we’ve survived. We’ve gotten through hurricanes in
the past, and we’ll get through this oil spill. But to do so, I urge
the President to act swiftly and focus his attention on making sure that
every possible measure is taken to equip our first responders with the
tools they need to do their jobs, encourage willing volunteers who want
to help us in our time of need, and reemphasize that Florida is open for
business. Finally, it is also my hope that the President will not take
his focus off the Gulf Oil Spill to push a cap-and-trade national energy
tax.

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 08:10 PM (W+GYq)

422 What the fuzzuck? Keep the looney dial at 6 or less dude!

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at June 16, 2010 08:10 PM (0q2P7)

423 Anyone has the right to claim the Administration is involved in a conspiracy here.

Of course, their bank accounts should be combed, catalogued and confiscated while they are reeducated in an appropriate camp environment.

Posted by: Your New Overlords at June 16, 2010 08:10 PM (YZISw)

424 So I'm stopping now.
Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 08:03 PM (66DVY)
just for the record i am 100% behind Ace on this one. Jugears is not smart enough to have don it.

Posted by: Racefan at June 16, 2010 08:11 PM (T0qTK)

425 @399: "Here's the contra: If you're going to create a crisis that allows you to become the hero, you must heed two rules.1. The crisis has to be large enough to be noticed BUT small enough that you can solve it. A runaway oil blowout in no shape or form fits this. A tanker spill, a much more common event, would have fit this rule perfectly. (Check out that sidebar story for ref.)2. The solution to the manufactured crisis must ready and waiting. Having a stupid lawyer bitch as the head of MMS, and closing the emergency response team is not preparation. Preparation is mega-funding in place last year for the EPA, MMS, etc. "Having it covered" is emergency planning and exercises with oil co.s and the Navy. That's how you pull of a crisis.The conspiracy fails both rules."
Yeah, a smart guy would set up a conspiracy that way, but what about an incompetent idiot with no real world experience? He *might* flub the play, huh?
*Dr. Evil pinky to corner of mouth*

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at June 16, 2010 08:11 PM (kmEfr)

426 Major Garrett told this story on Special Report Online tonight: He was on the gulf coast when Obama was down there yesterday and the day before. Out on a beach talking to people, he watched a supervisor divide his clean-up crew in to two groups of thirty and tell them 'you lot go that way along the beach, you others go the other way, we'll work back toward each other, leave the two coolers here in the middle'. Along comes a federal bureaucrat who stops the work and tells the supervisor 'you got to have two coolers for each group before you can go back to work'.

Who needs a conspiracy when we've got such 'work to the book' idiots?

Posted by: Retread at June 16, 2010 08:12 PM (4N0wb)

427 but seriously...anyone else think David Stern conspired with Doc Rivers and Phil Jackson to stretch the series out to seven games?yeah, me neither.
And made Michael Jordan play baseball...and covered up his much larger problem with officials gambling on games....and...
Yeah I am open to conspiricies regarding the NBA. That's about it though.

Posted by: Delta Smelt at June 16, 2010 08:12 PM (0pYSi)

428 Of course it is a conspiracy, it's obvious. I blame Big Bang and Dark Energy.

Posted by: The Higgs Boson at June 16, 2010 08:13 PM (AZGON)

429 anti-regulation folks wanted to let companies shave a few bucks and file
less paperwork, and we're gonna see a shitpile of new regulations now.

Yes, I am sure that it was a lack of proper paperwork that caused this accident.

I utterly despise the "we are all guilty" set and the equally odious "all must share in the blame" crowd.

Posted by: Vic at June 16, 2010 08:13 PM (6taRI)

430 LOG-IS-TICS. So I asked Mr. Preznit man, Yo pops, how many peeps do we need to pay to keep their mouths shut?

He says, Hundreds, at least and that is just for starters.

So I'm like, get the fuck outta here, that's crazy dude.

So he says, yeah but I also got some sinister swede from BP to bend over and take it in the keister.

And I'm like, so what, we still got to get all those other people paid off.

And he goes, yeah, that could be a problem.

And I go yeah. I am outta here.

Posted by: Hipster Douchebag at June 16, 2010 08:13 PM (ZESU0)

431 @408: "If you think BP is going to weather this storm and come out of it you're mistaken. BP will be bankrupt within a couple of years from now. That's my prediction, anyway."
BP is a huge conglomerate. ONE PART might go BK, but the overall entity will probably survive. The separate parts have no liability here.

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at June 16, 2010 08:14 PM (kmEfr)

432
how about casting Sam Rockwell in every single movie pumped out by Hollywood from 2008-2010, that's not a conspiracy?

Posted by: a concerned MacGruber at June 16, 2010 08:15 PM (m8h4o)

433 420 Yeah, who thinks Obama helped blow up the rig?
I think only 1-2 people said maybe, from what I can tell.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 08:15 PM (Yq+qN)

434 Remember TARP. Ace was all for it. FYNQ.

Posted by: Pelvis at June 16, 2010 08:15 PM (LlaBi)

435
btw, it's not a real conspiracy unless the Joos are involved.

Posted by: a concerned MacGruber at June 16, 2010 08:16 PM (m8h4o)

436 Pelvis, are you suggesting Ace was in on the conspiracy? Now that's a newsletter I'd like to subscribe to.

Posted by: Z as in Jersey at June 16, 2010 08:17 PM (kZT4X)

437 Ace -
No offense, and I'm sure you will take none because the advice is coming from me, the Smartest Man in The Senate.
This is ALL conspiracy. I TOLD you, "He'll be Tested!".
You scoffed!,"Oh, there's Old Joe, running off at the mouth again".
But what you don't get is this guy is so Super-Duper Smart, and I don't use that term lightly, that he is in total control. Calm as a Cucumber, Cool as a Fruit.,
At first I was afraid for him, but then I figured it out: He's Testing Himself!
I know. It Blew.My.Mind.
But it's the Truth. Bank on it.

Posted by: Joe Biden V.P. at June 16, 2010 08:17 PM (5eoYu)

438 How many here are actually advocating the conspiracy
theory ace is attacking though? That Obama was behind the accident.
One? Two? It doesn't seem like enough for him to be blowing up like he
is.

Posted by: buzzion at June 16, 2010 08:08 PM (oVQFe)
I don't think anyone is advocating it. Some of us are just saying that someone espousing it, or raising the question, doesn't make that person radioactive.
The weak link in that specific conspiracy theory is the BP side collaborating, though, not the Precedential side. People quickly forget that many of The Precedent's allies spent much time thinking up ways to kill millions of people in order to further their agendas (agendi?). Bill Ayers ruminated about "having" to kill 25 million capitalists, after all. And we don't need to go into the thoughts and aspirations of his jihadi buddies. I don't buy this conspiracy theory, but to dismiss it as an unhinged idea out of hand is just incorrect.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 16, 2010 08:18 PM (Qp4DT)

439 Here is the real conspiracy from story at Fox:

The AWOL soldier accused of trying to enter
MacDill Air Force Base with weapons and ammunition in his car is not a
terrorist and was merely "trying to impress" his girlfriend during the
incident, his father said in an exclusive interview with FoxNews.com.

"This is all just about a girl," said Ray
Kilburn, whose son, Spc. Christopher Paul Kilburn, has been charged
with desertion. "There's really nothing nefarious here about him trying
to get on the base."This is either an outrageously bad lie or that soldier is king of teh stupid.

Posted by: Vic at June 16, 2010 08:18 PM (6taRI)

440 Ewoks have a track record as good conspirators.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth at June 16, 2010 08:18 PM (ZESU0)

441 I might just have to go Live back on the air.

Posted by: Art Bell at June 16, 2010 08:19 PM (fZte/)

442
yeah, that's the only logical conclusion...

Ace is part of the conspiracy.

Posted by: a concerned MacGruber at June 16, 2010 08:20 PM (m8h4o)

443 439:

Yeah! That hack prick Sam Rockwell gets all the good roles!

Posted by: Shia La Beef at June 16, 2010 08:21 PM (JR2D9)

444 Latest conspiracy from Perez Hilton:

He published a beaver shot of Miley Cirus getting out of a car with tiny skirt and reportedly no panties.

Problem???

She is only 17 and this is a likely violation of child porn laws. He himed and hawed and rapidly took the picture down.

Posted by: Vic at June 16, 2010 08:22 PM (6taRI)

445 You know what? I give up. I'm afraid some of you require me to accuse
Obama of active intentional malice OR you think I'm defending him.



It doesn't matter how many times I say this is gross negligence.



So, look, it seems that the only way to criticize Obama properly, for
some of you, is to accuse him of being behind a conspiracy theory, and I
think that is 1) stupid and 2) psychologically deficient, and I won't
do that, but I also don't want to "defend" Obama, which is apparently
what i'm doing when I insist he be accused only of non-insane things.



So I'm stopping now.

He was behind the Challenger disaster, the Centralia coal mine collapse, and 3 Mile Island, the Norco Refinery explosion. All to shut down energy (and de-fund NASA) I KNOW IT I JUST CAN'T PROVE IT!!!!!1!1!11!!

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at June 16, 2010 08:22 PM (0q2P7)

446
"me doth thinkst Acest protest too mucheth"
~Shih Tzu

Posted by: a concerned MacGruber at June 16, 2010 08:22 PM (m8h4o)

447 just for the record i am 100% behind Ace on this one. Jugears is not smart enough to have don it.
Jugears doesn't have the mental capacity to change his own oil.
Oh who am I kidding, he's probably never even driven a car.

Posted by: ErikW at June 16, 2010 08:22 PM (9r6eV)

448 "Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 08:10 PM (W+GYq)"

My brother does maintenance and repair on boats in Gulf Shores. His customers own mostly charter boats and pleasure boats. It's always been a really good business for him, but now it's dead. Not slow--dead. The combination of the spill and the drilling moratorium is going to devastate the gulf economy.

Posted by: Will Folks at June 16, 2010 08:23 PM (VXBR1)

449 Ace probably doesn't want his site to be labeled a collection of lunatic conspiracy nuts, so maybe he has to be a little strong in his disavowal of conspiracy theories.

Morons? Sure. Lunatics? No.

Posted by: davidt at June 16, 2010 08:23 PM (HtIec)

450 That oil plume in satellite pictures looks just like the face on Mars. Coincidence? Absurd.

Posted by: Dick Hoagland at June 16, 2010 08:23 PM (AZGON)

451 Sorry. 455 is me.

Posted by: Bugler at June 16, 2010 08:23 PM (VXBR1)

452 Was Ace here when the rig blew? Where was he when the shit went down?

I wasn't, but I got some receipts and a good alibi.

Just asking questions.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 08:23 PM (JR2D9)

453 444 That had a Michael G. Scott feel to it.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 08:23 PM (Yq+qN)

454 Hmm, so I walked into an online version of Coast-to-Coast?
Neat!

Posted by: laceyunderalls at June 16, 2010 08:24 PM (Ir6nU)

455 ace@390

Okay, I only meant that the death of Drill, Baby, Drill had been exaggerated. And just so we're clear I don't think Obama ordered the oil leak, or that BP deliberately put their business at risk. As for whether he's dragging his feet, sure it could be incompetence coupled with arrogance (we don't need help from the Dutch), but there is so much that happened later than it ought to have, even based on public reporting, that culminated in his speech last night which pushed the long languishing Cap and Trade bill, I can't assert that he's acting in good faith to do his best on our behalf. And I certainly can't blame anyone from the Gulf coast who's scapegoating him [though why this candidate said what he did is beyond me].

If you're looking to square the circle on either conspiracy theory (though in my case, since the entire federal bureaucracy waits on his order, no cooperation is required, he just needs to leave the orders unsigned for a while), I would suggest that his belief that the situation will help him is delusional (as much so as you accuse any conspiracy theorist of being). He's spent his entire life being patted on the head for existing. And passing his healthcare bill over the objections of a clear and consistent majority of voters has only made that worse. Remember all he needs in order to complete his fundamental transformation of America is to win the argument in Washington that Cap and Trade needs to pass. That's his mission.

For what it's worth, I don't think it will work. And it honestly doesn't matter at this point. The Gulf is ruined either way.

Posted by: Methos at June 16, 2010 08:24 PM (Xsi7M)

456 Nothing happened here that hubris,incompetence,indecisive foot dragging and stupidity don't explain .

Posted by: steevy at June 16, 2010 08:24 PM (ME+y7)

457 Let's talk about the birth certificate, abortion, atheism, or male ponytails. Something we all can agree on.

Posted by: dagny at June 16, 2010 08:25 PM (DNCvM)

458 Meh, I can't speak for ace but I think Obama and the democrats are doing great harm to this country and they need to be replaced. Having public figures like this guy running for congress start going down the conspiracy road with no proof of anything doesn't help get us there IMO.

Posted by: robtr at June 16, 2010 08:26 PM (fwSHf)

459 465 Let's talk about the birth certificate, abortion, atheism, or male ponytails. Something we all can agree on.
...or the Caribou Barbie.
/extreme sarc

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 08:27 PM (Yq+qN)

460 Let's talk about the birth certificate, abortion, atheism, or male ponytails. Something we all can agree on.
Effin' queers.

Posted by: ErikW at June 16, 2010 08:27 PM (9r6eV)

461 /Which she isn't, but, old memes all that.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 08:28 PM (Yq+qN)

462 I've heard Obama's school records and real birth certificate were housed on that rig. Explain that Ace.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 08:28 PM (pEK05)

463 469
/Which she isn't, but, old memes all that.

How about that name that brings up so much discord... Rand Paul!

Posted by: Kratos (missing from the side of Mt Olympus) at June 16, 2010 08:29 PM (9hSKh)

464 462
Hmm, so I walked into an online version of Coast-to-Coast?
Neat!
Posted by: laceyunderalls at June 16, 2010 08:24 PM (Ir6nU)
More like strawman central in my eyes. Apparently thinking that Obama has attempted to practice Rahm Emmanuels credo on the oil spill disaster is the same as or merely a step lower than thinking Obama set off charges to blow the rig.

Posted by: buzzion at June 16, 2010 08:29 PM (oVQFe)

465 This thread brought me to

www.badarchaeology.net

Pretty interesting, full of hinky stuff nicely debunked

Posted by: George Orwell at June 16, 2010 08:30 PM (AZGON)

466 And all the cement they poured? Yep--Jimmy Hoffa.

Posted by: Bugler at June 16, 2010 08:30 PM (VXBR1)

467 Hmm I forgot about New Coke for almost 5 minutes. Nice try, so-called Obama.

Posted by: Joanie (Oven Gloves) at June 16, 2010 08:30 PM (wd0Iq)

468 Damn... He's my district.
I was thinking about votingfor him too....

Posted by: theBman at June 16, 2010 08:30 PM (Ub8OU)

469 There is one conspiracy going on today. It rests with the MFM. It has been All Obama ALL day and how he masterly took care of BP.

Bob Etheridge has disappeared from the media world.

Posted by: Vic at June 16, 2010 08:32 PM (6taRI)

470 471 469 How about that name that brings up so much discord... Rand Paul!
...or Ron Paul. We also have Mike Huckabee.
Oh, I know-- let's discuss ending the Fed!
472 462 That's how I feel as well.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 08:32 PM (Yq+qN)

471 There are a lot of unanswered questions here as to what really happened to cause this oil spill and what has or has not been done since to stop the spill and what has or has not been done to contain and clean up the oil. The American People deserve the truth, not excuses or accusations."

Posted by: what randall should have said at June 16, 2010 08:33 PM (HtIec)

472 Moron firing squad powers ACTIVATE!
Form of A CIRCLE!

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at June 16, 2010 08:34 PM (0q2P7)

473 OT: For lighter fare, Butch Cassidy is on the Encore Westerns channel.

Posted by: Retread at June 16, 2010 08:34 PM (4N0wb)

474 I know who lit it up.

Posted by: Trashcan Man at June 16, 2010 08:34 PM (7+pP9)

475
The birth cert is real, but embarrassing for some reason.

Abortion is an awful choice best decided between a conscience, a soul, a brain, and God. Not all those things are always invited to the discussion.

Anyone who believes themselves wise or smart enough to understand anything about God's existence or non-existence makes me giggle.

Some men can have ponytails. But it has to be Hank Williams Jr. / Lynyrd Skynyrd hair and not bicyclefag hair.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 08:34 PM (JR2D9)

476 Only one way to stop this insanity -- start a new thread.

Posted by: USA at June 16, 2010 08:35 PM (YZISw)

477
No, no, no.

What Mr Randall should've said was...

The chickensssssssss have come home to rooooooossssst.

Posted by: Jeremiah Wright at June 16, 2010 08:35 PM (m8h4o)

478 Bob Etheridge has disappeared from the media world.

The MFM knows their job.

Posted by: Bob Etheridge at June 16, 2010 08:35 PM (AZGON)

479 I bet Chris Christie could fix the oil spill.

(I love my gov.)

Posted by: Z as in Jersey at June 16, 2010 08:36 PM (kZT4X)

480 One question...as anyone heard why the FAA issued a no fly zone over the oil spill area? I mean, what was their reason?

Posted by: Deanna at June 16, 2010 08:36 PM (hj1MN)

481 Chris Christie needs to go to the Gulf and show how ass is kicked.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 08:37 PM (JR2D9)

482 484
Only one way to stop this insanity -- start a new thread.

Posted by: USA


This is a great country.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 08:39 PM (pEK05)

483 One question...as anyone heard why the FAA issued a no fly zone over the oil spill area? I mean, what was their reason?
Posted by: Deanna at June 16, 2010 08:36 PM (hj1MN)
It was ordered by the dept. of homeland security. No reason given other than the fact they don't want anyone to see this mess and the press obviously doesn't have a problem with it because then they would have to show what a fuckup Obama is.

Posted by: robtr at June 16, 2010 08:39 PM (fwSHf)

484 His self-importance and inexperience, as usual, do
more hurt than help. I'm sure he's thinking he just needs to keep
tweaking the optics. He is a narcissist who can do no wrong and all his
problems are caused by others who can't execute his brilliant plans
properly.


Posted by: devilish at June 16, 2010 08:04 PM (vyRPu)
So he's an Idea Man. Now I know who Obama reminds me of!!!

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 08:40 PM (W+GYq)

485 Per FB, Senator Vitter has been hounding the Precedent RE the oil spill. He seems to be growing more frustrated by the day-- not that I can blame him.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 08:40 PM (Yq+qN)

486 More like strawman central in my eyes. Apparently thinking that Obama
has attempted to practice Rahm Emmanuels credo on the oil spill
disaster is the same as or merely a step lower than thinking Obama set
off charges to blow the rig.

They didn't have to set off charges; all they had to do was play Blowout Preventer/Drilling Mud Roulette until they "lost."

Posted by: Abdominal Snowman at June 16, 2010 08:40 PM (xlmQD)

487 Ace,

You may just want to vote present. Reeves sponsors a "Spy Conference". I think Miller is safe. The district went for Kerry 50-48 and Obama 59-30.

Posted by: kemp at June 16, 2010 08:40 PM (2+9Yx)

488 One question...as anyone heard why the FAA issued a no fly zone over the oil spill area? I mean, what was their reason?
My guess is that every news organization on the planet would be chartering planes and helicopters turning the airspace into a complete clusterfuck.
Just a guess, tho.

Posted by: ErikW at June 16, 2010 08:41 PM (9r6eV)

489 I have to thank the Carolinas for making me look almost sane and normal by comparison.

Posted by: Florida at June 16, 2010 08:42 PM (DCQ0q)

490 It's like they played Russian Roulette with a bolt-action Mosin-Nagant.

Posted by: Abdominal Snowman at June 16, 2010 08:42 PM (xlmQD)

491
Caw, Caw!

Posted by: "Bill" Randall Flagg at June 16, 2010 08:42 PM (7+pP9)

492 Conspiracy? I got just two words.

Daylight Savings Time.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at June 16, 2010 08:43 PM (yyY6M)

493 Is the Blind Side any good?

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 08:43 PM (pEK05)

494 The birth cert is real, but embarrassing for some reason.
Agreed
Abortion
is an awful choice best decided between a conscience, a soul, a brain,
and God. Not all those things are always invited to the discussion.
So are other immoral crimes that injure someone. It doesn't mean it shouldn't also be illegal, and punishable.


Anyone
who believes themselves wise or smart enough to understand anything
about God's existence or non-existence makes me giggle.
Anyone who believes that the existence or non-existence of a higher power is irrelevant in a discussion of philosophy and morality makes me giggle.
Some men
can have ponytails. But it has to be Hank Williams Jr. / Lynyrd Skynyrd
hair and not bicyclefag hair.
Agreed

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at June 16, 2010 08:44 PM (0q2P7)

495 @501: "Is the Blind Side any good?"
Didn't see it

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at June 16, 2010 08:44 PM (kmEfr)

496 It's the revenge of Atlantis, people.

Posted by: Madame Blavatsky at June 16, 2010 08:45 PM (AZGON)

497 I think we need a flame-war.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 08:45 PM (Yq+qN)

498 500
Conspiracy? I got just two words.



Daylight Savings Time.




Daylight Savings Time was definitely a Jewish Cabal, finding your Jew gold takes time and daylight.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 08:45 PM (pEK05)

499 504
It's the revenge of Atlantis, people.

Atlantis will be avenged!

/Wait.

Posted by: Poseidon (At the bottom of the Agean Sea) at June 16, 2010 08:45 PM (9hSKh)

500 Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!

Posted by: low hanging fruit at June 16, 2010 08:46 PM (4WbTI)

501 507 504Which Gears of War was that?

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 08:47 PM (Yq+qN)

502 Some men can have ponytails. But it has to be Hank Williams Jr. / Lynyrd Skynyrd hair and not bicyclefag hair.

Posted by: sifty at June 16, 2010 08:34 PM (JR2D9)

I'm not seeing the distinction here. Are you saying that a bunch of pussified, do-nothing, dope-head musicians are more legitimate than some nearly homeless dude who rides a bicycle?

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at June 16, 2010 08:47 PM (wOtDN)

503 "...When the Lemurians discovered sex, their fate was sealed and the continent followed Hyperborea in sinking beneath the waves. The offspring of the Lemurians’ sexual adventures was the fourth Root Race: fully human Atlanteans, guided into human form by adepts from Venus. After the drowning of Atlantis, the fifth Root Race – modern humans – evolved; the sixth Root Race is about to evolve in North America, while the seventh will one day develop in South America..."

And who financed Brazil's offshore drilling? See? SEE!?!?

Posted by: Madame Blavatsky at June 16, 2010 08:47 PM (AZGON)

504 Follow the money. And the boom manufacturers.

Posted by: Deep Throat at June 16, 2010 08:48 PM (QKKT0)

505 Red Dawn, standing by...

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 08:50 PM (Yq+qN)

506 And who financed Brazil's offshore drilling? See? SEE!?!?
Well paint me green and dip me in Rice Crispies!

Posted by: Edgar Cayce at June 16, 2010 08:50 PM (9r6eV)

507 Why would it be necessary for SEALs or sharks with laser beams to plant
explosives at the base of Deep Horizon, when people knew that using
seawater instead of mud, not venting gas during shut down, etc, would
likely cause the safe effect? [IF destruction of the well was a desired
result?]



Or, as a matter of strategy, why plant explosives to bring down an Egypt
Air plane full of (hated) government officials and generals when a
jihad minded co-pilot promised 72 virgins and 28 young boys would crash
the plane mid-ocean for you?



John Hinckley, Jr. acted alone. Gavrilo Princip did not.



The idea that because some conspiracy theories are false, all conspiracy
theories must be false, is about as logical as saying because some men
are bald, all men must be bald.



The idea that the Catholic Church conspired to move pedophile priests
from one parish to another instead of handing them over to justice was
proven true. The idea that the US government conspired to allowed black
men to die of syphilis untreated, to observe the effects of the disease
was proven true.



(or more specifically, members of the Catholic Church/the US Government
who had enough
access to money/authority to bring the plan to fruition, conspired ...)



The idea that JFK stole the election from Nixon and Nixon avoided
contesting the Illinois (among others) results to protect the country
certainly has lots of adherents, although, I do not if falls into the
"proven" category.



William Ayers conspired to blow up a dance at Fort Dix, he just didn't
succeed when the bomb went off prematurely.



Of all the companies in the US to benefit from the "lead testing"
requirements imposed after Mattel imported untested toys from China ...
Mattel. They have received 2 waivers while hundreds of small 'Other
Mothers' 2nd hand stores have gone out of business.

However, Dick Morris freely admits that he and Clinton used the OKC bombing to smear conservatives as militia supporters; although no
one has any proof that Clinton actually knew Timothy McVeigh or his plans.

Posted by: Adriane at June 16, 2010 08:51 PM (mXBw3)

508 They weren't drilling for oil, you rubes... they were drilling a hole to bury Trig Palin's medical records! Come on, people! Wake up!!!

Posted by: andi sullivan (LGBT) at June 16, 2010 08:51 PM (AZGON)

509 "505 I think we need a flame-war."

Well, you would. Bitch.

Posted by: Bugler at June 16, 2010 08:51 PM (VXBR1)

510
The only way to plug the hole is to nuke it.

Trust me.

Posted by: Trashcan Man at June 16, 2010 08:52 PM (7+pP9)

511 If you get a chance to watch a rerun of Bill O'Reilly's show tonight, it's worth watching. Putting aside Bill's comments, his staff has compiled and provided a lot of very interesting topics, much moreinformative and much more thought-provokingthan usual. It's their best show in months.

Posted by: Heads Up at June 16, 2010 08:52 PM (sYrWB)

512 Red Foxx, standing by......

Posted by: Dr. Spank at June 16, 2010 08:52 PM (pEK05)

513 "505 I think we need a flame-war."

BP and Obama are hiding the truth in LauraW's hump.

Posted by: George Orwell at June 16, 2010 08:53 PM (AZGON)

514 NC 13th is a gerrymander piece of shit. Goes from Raleigh, where Miller lives to Greensboro. Most of it is in the "Black Belt" area North of I-85. Includes Bernie Madoff home, Butner Federal Prison.

Posted by: kemp at June 16, 2010 08:53 PM (2+9Yx)

515 Who needs a conspiracy when we've got such 'work to the book' idiots?
Posted by: Retread at June 16, 2010 08:12 PM (4N0wb)
OMFG. This is exactly the tactic "work to rule" that unions use to create work slowdowns when they want to screw with management without calling a strike.The proper procedure in an emergency situation of this type is to let as many of the nitpicky rules (and even some major ones, like environmental impact requirements) slide as possible -- to grant waivers for them -- so as to maximize work output in the face of disaster. And the President is the one who should issue the Executive Order making that the policy for dealing with this oil spill -- that is something concrete that he CAN do to make the situation better.
Of course, we are now seeing in places like Great Britain how emergency responders -- policemen and firemen -- are being directly ordered NOT to save people in hazardous situations if doing so would violate the workplace health and safety rules for their job classifications.
Police 'said they weren't allowed to save drowning man'
A rescuer who asked a police officer to save a drowning man was told: `No, but you can, I’m not allowed to’, an inquest heard.
Greg Clifford claimed police were “uncaring” and should have acted more quickly to try to rescue Victor Greenwood, 47, who drowned in the River Exe at Exeter Quay, Devon, on a hot summer’s lunchtime with 200 people watching from the banks.
As the officers looked on, Mr Clifford, 23, and another member of the public, Ryan Curwen, 24, a friend, dive in and reached the spot where Mr Greenwood vanished, but found no trace of him.

Posted by: stuiec at June 16, 2010 08:54 PM (W+GYq)

516
No conspiracy - but it will soon become one once the democrats use it to pass all sorts of shit that further devastates our economic vitality.


Posted by: Lemon Kitten at June 16, 2010 08:54 PM (0fzsA)

517 Hey, you know what's really funny? That apparently several of the commenters here are just as fucking stupid as the 9/11 Truthers.

Better not be any long-timers in this group.

Posted by: Jeff B. at June 16, 2010 08:54 PM (GhUHn)

518 Red Buttons standing by.

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at June 16, 2010 08:55 PM (wOtDN)

519 Red Buttons, standing by........

Posted by: Red Buttons at June 16, 2010 08:56 PM (pEK05)

520 The real question is whether he sucks or he is arrogantly using a disaster to further his legislative agenda.

Posted by: dagny at June 16, 2010 08:56 PM (DNCvM)

521 523 River monster.Government conspiracy to hide the same.

Posted by: steevy at June 16, 2010 08:56 PM (ME+y7)

522 526/527 Spooky ...

Posted by: Adriane at June 16, 2010 08:56 PM (mXBw3)

523 Posted by: Retread at June 16, 2010 08:12 PM (4N0wb)

sigh...

Posted by: ingrid newkirk at June 16, 2010 08:57 PM (fuemy)

524 I apologize most sincerely for my previous outburst. Please--my frail constitution is very sensitive to flames.
Fuckers.

Posted by: Bugler at June 16, 2010 08:57 PM (VXBR1)

525 The idea that the Catholic Church conspired to move pedophile priests from one parish to another instead of handing them over to justice was proven true. The idea that the US government conspired to allowed black men to die of syphilis untreated, to observe the effects of the disease was proven true.
Those weren't ideas, they were accusations from people involved with evidence to back up their accusations.

Posted by: robtr at June 16, 2010 08:57 PM (fwSHf)

526 515 Tuskegee tried many treatments and yes left some untreated.You've heard of a "control group"?

Posted by: steevy at June 16, 2010 08:58 PM (ME+y7)

527 492
His self-importance and inexperience,
as usual, do
more hurt than help. I'm sure he's thinking he just needs to keep
tweaking the optics. He is a narcissist who can do no wrong and all his
problems are caused by others who can't execute his brilliant plans
properly.


Posted by: devilish at June 16, 2010
08:04 PM (vyRPu)
So he's an Idea Man.
Now I know who
Obama reminds me of!!!


Posted by: stuiec
at June 16, 2010 08:40 PM (W+GYq)
_____________________________________________HAHA! Wow, give him a suit and a Harvard degree and BAM! OBAMA!

Posted by: devilish at June 16, 2010 08:58 PM (vyRPu)

528 Big Red running for cover.......

Posted by: Big Red at June 16, 2010 08:59 PM (pEK05)

529 The real question is whether he sucks or he is arrogantly using a disaster to further his legislative agenda.
Posted by: dagny at June 16, 2010 08:56 PM (DNCvM)
The answer is yes.

Posted by: robtr at June 16, 2010 08:59 PM (fwSHf)

530 He also could have suspended the Jones Act to allow foreigners to work on ships in American waters, ie the Dutch offer of help. That was a concrete executive decision that could have helped. Why not?

Posted by: dagny at June 16, 2010 08:59 PM (DNCvM)

531 to try to be charitable, is it possible he meant a kinda "what did all those assholes expect to happen when they cut all those corners?" thing?

that's the best I can come up with.

Posted by: ingrid newkirk at June 16, 2010 09:00 PM (fuemy)

532 One question...as anyone heard why the FAA issued a no fly zone over the
oil spill area? I mean, what was their reason?

Keep gawkers away. A lot of helicopter and military traffic moving back and fourth. The pilots working there don't need the distraction or a mid air collision on top of everything else.
http://www.aopa.org/tfr/

Posted by: lowandslow at June 16, 2010 09:00 PM (GZitp)

533 You've heard of a "control group"?

Posted by: steevy at June 16, 2010 08:58 PM (ME+y7)

That's pretty vicious, to say nothing of immoral. I mean, we are talking about human beings here. Prior to this "experiment" with its "control group" we has quite a lot of anecdotal evidence about the effects of untreated syphilis.

Posted by: The Dread Pirate Neck Beard at June 16, 2010 09:00 PM (wOtDN)

534 Dagny, I really think he just wasn't paying attention. He doesn't seem to be very interested in, you know, governance.

Posted by: Bugler at June 16, 2010 09:00 PM (VXBR1)

535 >>>btw, Ace, you said that BP limited its liability with its action today.

No I didn't, or if I didn't I didn't mean to.

I began writing a comment quoting someone else saying that, and I meant to add "actually they increased their liability from the cap to $20 billion and it could go higher." If it published, it was a mistake. I never finished it.

Posted by: ace at June 16, 2010 09:01 PM (66DVY)

536 Unintended consequences.

Obama and his minions have set themselves up as the greatest thing since wh, er, sliced bread. To accept help from the Netherlands or boom manufacturers or anyone else would contradict that, so they turn them all down. And now they look like the dumbest people on earth.

This disaster is virtually impossible to solve. If Obama and his minions were as smart as they like people to think they are they would have called in Palin to head up the efforts, so they could blame her for the failure to do the impossible. But they can't even consider bringing in Palin because they have put themselves up on the pedestal and declared her less than nothing.

But then again, Palin may have had the unintended consequences of success.

Posted by: davidt at June 16, 2010 09:02 PM (HtIec)

537 533. Exactly.

After enough evidence can be brought forward, a conspiracy becomes confirmed.

However for many years, a common argument against the pedophilia scandal and the Tuskegee syphilis study was "Come On! This is the Catholic Church // US Government we're talking about and they would NEVER do such a thing ..."

Which, as I see it, is part of Ace's argument here.

Posted by: Adriane at June 16, 2010 09:03 PM (mXBw3)

538 I'm counting down the days until the first youtube video, purporting to show charges being detonated on the rig, appears.

Posted by: DngrMse at June 16, 2010 09:04 PM (c+xkQ)

539 He doesn't seem to be very interested in, you know, governance.
Governance is too hard. If something goes wrong, I'll just throw a lackey under the bus.
Now who wants to PAR-TAY???

Posted by: President Breaktime at June 16, 2010 09:05 PM (9r6eV)

540 There is no cap for the clean-up, there may be one for economic loss.

Posted by: Spank at June 16, 2010 09:06 PM (pEK05)

541 Red Lipstick standing by.

Posted by: Sexually Excited Dog at June 16, 2010 09:06 PM (wOtDN)

542 Seriously...I'm having trouble coming to grips with the fact that there are posters here (who I've spoken to as if they were normal people) that actually believe conspiracy theory bullshit. I feel a little dirty and very embarrassed for Ace.

Purge them, says I.

Posted by: Jeff B. at June 16, 2010 09:06 PM (GhUHn)

543 532 I apologize most sincerely for my previous outburst. Please--my frail constitution is very sensitive to flames. Fuckers.
So is this where I call you naff nancy-boy?

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 09:08 PM (Yq+qN)

544 550
Seriously...I'm having trouble coming to grips with the fact that there
are posters here (who I've spoken to as if they were normal people) that actually believe conspiracy theory
bullshit. I feel a little dirty and very embarrassed for Ace.

Purge
them, says I.


Posted by: Jeff B


That's exactly what you'd expect the administration to say "Jeff B".

Posted by: Spank at June 16, 2010 09:08 PM (pEK05)

545 dagny, I kinda wonder if Obama's ever heard of the Jones Act. Just sayin'

Posted by: ingrid newkirk at June 16, 2010 09:09 PM (fuemy)

546 That's it--I'm crushed! I'm going over to LGF to complain.

Posted by: Bugler at June 16, 2010 09:10 PM (VXBR1)

547 553
dagny, I kinda wonder if Obama's ever heard of the Jones Act. Just
sayin'


Not since college.

Posted by: Spank at June 16, 2010 09:10 PM (pEK05)

548 Conspiracy? Surely nobody in government conspired to blow up an oil rig and get 11 people killed. But....there has been a concerted effort to NOT respond to this disaster all the while seeming to respond.

Posted by: Bill R. at June 16, 2010 09:10 PM (EhlQq)

549 541 There was no known cure.There were some treatments of dubious value,the ide was to see whether the treatments made any improvement.Noone was given syphilis by the government.The study was suggested by Tuskegee University(and a black Doctor I believe)because black men were the most common victims of the disease.The men were treated as well as the science of the day knew how.

Posted by: steevy at June 16, 2010 09:10 PM (ME+y7)

550 Here I am!

Posted by: Major "King" Kong at June 16, 2010 09:11 PM (E7i+5)

551 ...The third Root Race comprised the Lemurians. They were bandy-legged, egg-laying hermaphrodite apes (some with four arms, some with eyes in the back of their head), 3.7 m (twelve feet) tall. They were contemporary with dinosaurs, which they kept as domestic animals...

And we all know dinosaurs became oil. I blame the Lemurians!

Posted by: Madame Blavatsky at June 16, 2010 09:12 PM (AZGON)

552 I was gonna join the argument, but it's pointless. Just let it be said that the watchword of the day is "overreaction."

Posted by: Merovign, Strong On His Mountain at June 16, 2010 09:12 PM (bxiXv)

553 554 That's it--I'm crushed! I'm going over to LGF to complain.
It's better than uphill gardener. That's apparently another British term for being gay.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 09:13 PM (Yq+qN)

554 Seems pretty simple to me:
1. Obama and BP, a major oil company,conspire to blow up rig, leading to the cessation ofall drilling and production of oil, causing BP stock to plummet while simultaneously strengthening competitors like Petrobras.
2. ???
3. Profit!

This dumb motherfucker reminds me of a platoon sergeant I once had who insisted the world was flat. Because, and I quote, "You know when we up in the choppers? Look outside - that shit's flat!"

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 16, 2010 09:13 PM (xGIqT)

555 This dumb motherfucker reminds me of a platoon sergeant I once had who
insisted the world was flat. Because, and I quote, "You know when we up
in the choppers? Look outside - that shit's flat!"

The world is round, like the inside of a ball.

Posted by: Man from Pellucidar at June 16, 2010 09:15 PM (HtIec)

556 Those weren't ideas, they were accusations from people involved with evidence to back up their accusations.
Ah, yes. Because *every single person* who said "apriest molested me 40 years ago, gimme my millions" had hard evidence to back it up. And we know this because so many of them yielded criminal prosecutions. And for sure, we *never* compare how much it happened in the Catholic Church versus U.S. Public Schools. The fact that it happened in the Church a *lot* less than it STILL happens in public schools, and no one talks about it, *must* mean that what happened in theChurch was a conspiracy. Right.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 16, 2010 09:15 PM (9zHDv)

557 Uphill gardener is a new one on me. It's nice, with the compost connection and all. I'm still partial to "trouser pilot," though.

Posted by: Bugler at June 16, 2010 09:15 PM (VXBR1)

558 The reason these conspiracies work is because only hundreds of people have to the know what's going on.

Posted by: Spank at June 16, 2010 09:17 PM (pEK05)

559 Years ago, I climbed the mountains, even though it was forbidden. But things are not as they teach us. For the world is hollow and I have touched the sky.

Posted by: old man at June 16, 2010 09:18 PM (4WbTI)

560 Posted by: Jeff B. at June 16, 2010 09:06 PM (GhUHn)

Dude, there's people around who actually believed that refusing to vote for McCain/Palin would somehow benefit the country and the "conservative movement"

A couple of them even believe that John McCain was programmed to be Ho Chi Minh's Manchurian Candidate, or whatever.

People can be nuts.

Posted by: ingrid newkirk at June 16, 2010 09:18 PM (fuemy)

561 There was no known cure.There were some treatments of dubious value,the ide was to see whether the treatments made any improvement.Noone was given syphilis by the government.The study was suggested by Tuskegee University(and a black Doctor I believe)because black men were the most common victims of the disease.The men were treated as well as the science of the day knew how.

Posted by: steevy at June 16, 2010 09:10 PM (ME+y7)

Bullshit. Penicillin was known to be effective against syphilis more than 20 years before the experiment ended. We're not talking about animals, we're talking about using human beings to satisfy the downright Nazi-like curiosity of some "scientists".

Posted by: Sexually Excited Dog at June 16, 2010 09:19 PM (wOtDN)

562 It is never a good sign when a candidate uses the phrase:
"I am not necessarily a conspiracy person, but..."

Oh, by the way, did you hear that Will Folks got busted using the racist term "raghead" on his website?

Posted by: Brian O'Connor at June 16, 2010 09:20 PM (Mcny5)

563 565 Uphill gardener is a new one on me. It's nice, with the compost connection and all. I'm still partial to "trouser pilot," though.
Several ways of reading that...
Look up Gordon Bennett. That's an odd one.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 09:21 PM (Yq+qN)

564 Tuskegee Study:

The study initially involved 600 black men – 399 with syphilis, 201 who
did not have the disease. The study was conducted without the
benefit of patients' informed consent. Researchers told the men
they were being treated for "bad blood," a local term used to
describe several ailments, including syphilis, anemia, and fatigue.
In truth, they did not receive the proper treatment needed to cure
their illness. In exchange for taking part in the study, the men
received free medical exams, free meals, and burial insurance.
Although originally projected to last 6 months, the study actually
went on for 40 years

source:
http://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/timeline.htm

Posted by: Adriane at June 16, 2010 09:24 PM (mXBw3)

565 Hookah with pipe fittings and stainless steel pipe fittings ,then you will have four boys:vas 5054a ,tacho universal ,bmw ops and key programmer.

Posted by: hookah at June 16, 2010 09:27 PM (rN1n2)

566 Didn't they decide Tuskegee was a comet?

Posted by: davidt at June 16, 2010 09:28 PM (HtIec)

567 Not since college.
LoL

Posted by: dagny at June 16, 2010 09:30 PM (DNCvM)

568 At least Randall did not say "whitey" did it.
I was hoping someoneelse would point that out.

Posted by: Doug Ess at June 16, 2010 09:31 PM (KvR7h)

569 572 It evolved over time.They did treat them later,with the questionable methods available.Once penicillin was understood to cure it the study should have ended,instead it continued and penicillin was witheld.

Posted by: steevy at June 16, 2010 09:32 PM (ME+y7)

570 Sorry, I'm sticking with my own previous statement that he's
incompetent.

Yup. Never ascribe to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity.

It looks like BP might have short-circuited the shutdown procedures already established, and MMS was informed about that in advance. That isn't really a conspiracy. This wasn't done to cause a blowout: they thought that it would save them time and money. The pressure on tech types to cut corners or modify procedures can get pretty intense sometimes.

I used to write flight control software. Projects which were in trouble were frequently pressured by the project manager, the project engineer, various suits, V.P.s and so on. But if you mess up, you can get someone killed. That happened before I got there - a guy who was pulling 80 hour weeks ended up not plugging in everything that needed to be plugged in. The company adapted the flight crews' rules for "flight status" for folks working on flight and safety critical items on board. That still didn't fix the problem, so an ombudsman was appointed for us to go to if we were getting squeezed too hard.

And we still got squeezed.

Posted by: Gen. Sir Harry Flashman, VC at June 16, 2010 09:33 PM (ImSwG)

571 Still Tuskegee led to alot of bullshit claims like the "government gave black men syphilis".It also helped pave the way for the CIA sent heroin into black neighborhoods and created AIDS conspiracies.

Posted by: steevy at June 16, 2010 09:34 PM (ME+y7)

572 I'm not defending the program but it was the subject of baseless claims.Later the government exposed thousands of soldiers and sailors to radiation during bomb tests.There was no malice,only ignorance.

Posted by: steevy at June 16, 2010 09:36 PM (ME+y7)

573 Go to You Tube and look up BP Spills Coffee.

Posted by: Retread at June 16, 2010 09:36 PM (4N0wb)

574 As idiotic as his comment may have been, I think people have seen the light when it comes to voting for Democrats "on principle". That's one of the things that helped Zero get elected because Republicans couldn't stomach McCain. As bad as it may be, the alternative is still worse. We're no longer a country that can vote for the "best" man for the job. We mostly vote for the lesser of two evils and the messiah is the worst politician that has ever happened to this nation because many people realized way too late the damage they had done. Winning the battle isn't worth losing the war and I wouldn't give the Dems even one more vote in Congress because even the most conservative Dem gives more power than a liberal Repub when they're the ones charge. Just take a look at the conservative Dems that got elected and then shoved to the back of the bus once they had served their purpose.

Posted by: slug at June 16, 2010 09:37 PM (n8Nln)

575 Did Barry appoint a blow up the rig czar?

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 16, 2010 09:40 PM (J1sX6)

576 wow, I go into a meeting and all hell breaks loose. I have only one question. Why did the president compare the oil spill to nine eleven? Last night's speech was mundane. Rush was able to compare it to Carter's misery speech and it was sad and funny at the same time. Dagny I think was able to predict that the conspiracy nuts would be coming out because 1. the speech said nothing and 2. days before he had compared this to nine eleven. I think he compared it to nine eleven knowing he would hatch the conspiracy theorists. Am I making any sense?

Posted by: curious at June 16, 2010 09:40 PM (p302b)

577 Slug, I considered voting for McCain as voting against the greater of two evils rather than for the lesser of two evils, as taking a proactive action of defense against the greater evil rather than what kinda sorts seems like a surrender to the lesser evil.

Posted by: davidt at June 16, 2010 09:46 PM (HtIec)

578 I voted for Sarah.

Posted by: Miss'80sBaby at June 16, 2010 09:47 PM (Yq+qN)

579 And Sarah.

Posted by: davidt at June 16, 2010 09:49 PM (HtIec)

580 In the Royal Navy, you must always choose the lesser of two weevils.

Posted by: Captain Aubrey at June 16, 2010 09:51 PM (S9AJM)

581 Fuel on the fire. How much stock did BP CEO dump if any, before the rig accident? What is security on the drill rig like? Can me or anyone here take a boat 100-200yrds away and dive on the rig? Someone above mentioned Murphy's law, The rig was not supposed to blow up and lives lost. Just leak oil. Something went terribly wrong. Reports of a NORK ship 128 miles off course in the area the day of the rig went down. Minisub. I bet there are alot more rumors floating around.

Posted by: sig at June 16, 2010 09:52 PM (2i+Vz)

582 Did Barry appoint a blow up the rig czar?
Not as far as you know!

Posted by: Bill Ayres at June 16, 2010 09:53 PM (9r6eV)

583 I bet there are alot more rumors floating around.

Each dumber than the last.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 16, 2010 09:54 PM (S9AJM)

584 Cynthia McKinney's maiden name was Randall. Coincidence? I think not.

Posted by: kansas at June 16, 2010 09:57 PM (w50Uq)

585 #568 - That's only your belief, not a fact. Many people voted for their local Republican candidates, but not for Arizona's Mr. Magoo, because they believed that he was Obama Lite, and they were right; Mr. Magoois as much of a putz as Obama is.
I hopr that the people in Arizona remember that, and throw Mr. Magoo out of office in the fall.

Posted by: Heads Up at June 16, 2010 10:06 PM (sYrWB)

586 As far as this conspiracy theory... I don't buy "BP and Obama conspired", that makes no sense at all. I *can* buy "someone in the Obama Administration engineered sabotage without BP's knowledge". And that would be nowhere *near* equivalent to Trutherism. The biggest problem with Trutherism is how many people would have to be keeping quiet about it. I could see Deepwater carried out by 3 people: Someone workingin the government wanting it to happen ("Don't worry, Mr. President, in a few weeks you'll be able to rescind that offshore drilling you authorized, don't worry about it"), a single saboteur working at BP, and maybeone other guy at BP who hires the saboteur, though he's not strictly necessary).
The fact that Obama so uncharacteristically approved more offshore oil drilling just a couple weeks before this happened, allowing himto then turn around and go hysterically in the opposite direction (MUCH more in character), is a bit too big a coincidence for me to discount the possibility that either someone in the government, or hell, maybe even some whacked out lefty fringe environmentalist group outraged by that decision, committed sabotage.
And of course it's very possible that they flubbed it and did much more damage than they intended... but it's not necessary, either. Look. The oil spill is, as far as I know, STILL smaller than the *intentional* oil spill Saddam Hussein created in the Persian Gulf back in 1991. You know. The biggest oil spill in human history That Shall Not Be Mentioned, except obliquely in how every news report refers to Deepwater as "the biggest oil spill in U.S. history". You'd think the biggest oil spill in *world* history would get mentioned once in a while as, you know, a historical curiosity. But, no.
And as far as I know, Saudi Arabia hasn't suffered all *that* much. I mean, if it had been *that* bad, you'd think we'd *hear* about it... ever. But we don't. It's going to SUCK for Lousiana and a few other states for a few years, but the history of this sort of thing says it'll be completely dispersed within 1-4 years after the flow stops. And the wildlife will recover. And life will go on. But cap and trade will be with us forever. I can see plenty ofenviro-nazis (or corrupt powermongers in the govermnet) doing the math and figuring its worth it. I mean, they've killed over 50 million people with their insane DDT ban, why the *hell* would you think killing 11 people would be a show-stopper?
As I said, I don't buy the conspiracy that this guy posited, but I think it's pretty damn stupid to deem even asking the question to be radioactive.
And yes, I also find it humorous how butthurt certain people on this thread have gotten over alllllll the people who agree with his theory... all 1 or 2 of them. I agree that this guy shouldn't have made the charges without some evidence... but how is it possible to get any evidencewhen the words "I think we should investigate" send people into spasms?

Posted by: Qwinn at June 16, 2010 10:08 PM (9zHDv)

587 I *can* buy "someone in the Obama Administration engineered sabotage
without BP's knowledge". And that would be nowhere *near* equivalent to
Trutherism.

It's the exact same fucking thing posited by the exact same sort of fucking retard, in that it ignores every single piece of actual fact and requires impossible shit for it to be true.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 16, 2010 10:13 PM (S9AJM)

588 Wow, I see how you totally ignored the 2 or 3 sentences following it that distinctly outline the vast difference between what it would take to create a controlled demolition of the World Trade Center in the middle of Manhattan with 90,000 people working in it, versus what it would take to sabotage a single oil rig. It's exactly the same. Talk about retarded. As I said, I don't buy the theory, but FFS, by claiming that it's the same as Trutherism, you are giving Trutherism WAY too much credit. What this is exactly like is the birther controversy - very likely not true, but still a million times more plausible than Trutherism.
I mean, seriously. Sabotage is absolutely, positively totally out of the question? On what basis can you claim that?Why exactly is somebody, even a single individual, sabotaging an oil rig"impossible"?

Posted by: Qwinn at June 16, 2010 10:17 PM (9zHDv)

589 It's the exact same fucking thing posited by the exact same sort of fucking retard, in that it ignores every single piece of actual fact and requires impossible shit for it to be true.
Well, yeah. But other than that, it seems entirely plausible.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 16, 2010 10:19 PM (xGIqT)

590 I'll say it yet again - I don't buy the theory, but a lot of the arguments I'm hearing *against* it are pure bunk. Somebody tell me why this particular "conspiracy" would *have* to go beyond, say, half a dozen people, or less, in the know.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 16, 2010 10:21 PM (9zHDv)

591 Wow, I see how you totally ignored the 2 or 3 sentences following it

You mean the totally impossible shit? Yeah, I ignored it because it's fucking retarded.

Why don't you explain the mechanism by which this saboteur acted .... 1 mile underwater, mind you, since that's where the trouble started, in a highly-controlled and monitored area, to use some magical device to create what looks and acts exactly like a fucking blowout, but is in fact not.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 16, 2010 10:29 PM (S9AJM)

592 Somebody tell me why this particular
"conspiracy" would *have* to go
beyond, say, half a dozen people, or less, in the know.




Because you're putting the cart before the horse. If you can't come up
with a plausible mechanism for sabotage 1 mile deep in a well-monitored area that
looks
exactly like a blowout, then the stupid theory can't happen anyway.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 16, 2010 10:34 PM (S9AJM)

593 1 mile underwater, mind you, since that's where the trouble started
Um, I've read several accounts of what happened, and what you're claiming doesn't match any of them. Every account I've read says the trouble started via an "explosion and fire" on the rig itself. If there had been some initiating event on the sea floor, you'd think Reuters would've mentioned it in their timeline.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 16, 2010 10:36 PM (9zHDv)

594 Why exactly is somebody, even a single individual, sabotaging an oil rig"impossible"?
Well, it's not impossible, so here's how I would do it:
1. Email BP, tell them you're a student working on a class project and you want to know how someone would hypothetically blow up an oil rig, causing an uncontrollable leak.
2. Purchase mother ship from which to operate. Preferably something with a cloaking device, so nobody wonders what a non-company ship was doing in the area immediately before the explosion.
3. Stop at Wal-Mart. You will want snacks, because it is a long boat ride.
4. Purchase Remotely Operated Submersible rated to at least 5,000 feet. Check ebay - you may be able to sneak away with a last-minute bid LOL!
5. Purchase explosives from crooked supply sergeant or hijack one of those unguarded, unescorted Army trucks that are frequently driving around laden with explosives. Alternatively, purchase Semtex from Ukraine black market. Check Southwest for low airfare.
6. Pilot mothership to within 1000 meters of rig. Put out a couple of fishing poles so it distracts their attention from the 4-ton submarine you're winching over the side attached to mile-long spool of cable.
7. Plant your charges, recover your submarine, and as you're reeling in your fishing line, say loudly, "I guess they ain't bitin'. Suppose I'll head home."
8. Live remainder of life in Miami, trying to find out who issued the "burn notice" against you, with the help of sarcastic retired spook and plucky girlfriend.
IT'S SO FUCKING SIMPLE.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 16, 2010 10:38 PM (xGIqT)

595 Wow, are you guys some serious assholes. As far as I can tell from every account I've read,it was afreaking explosion and fire on a freaking oil rig. OH MY GOD.AN "EXPLOSION AND FIRE"WOULD TAKE FIFTY THOUSAND PEOPLE TO ORCHESTRATE - IT'S EXACTLY LIKE A CONTROLLED DEMOLITION OF THE WTC.
Seriously... the arrogance and condescension you guys display is staggering.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 16, 2010 10:41 PM (9zHDv)

596 ad hominem is a favorite technique on the intertubes ...

Posted by: Adriane at June 16, 2010 10:45 PM (mXBw3)

597 hmm, no idea why the unbolded rebolded

Posted by: Adriane at June 16, 2010 10:46 PM (mXBw3)

598 Hey, maybe they hacked into the rig's mainframe and caused it to explode.
Remember in Die Hard 2 how they made that plane crash because the guy hacked the airport's computer?
You could totally do that with one guy.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 16, 2010 10:48 PM (xGIqT)

599 Qwinn, you don't seem to get it: even TALKING about possible conspiracy theories, even endorsing their PLAUSIBILITY, makes you sound like a ridiculous Truther nut. You seem to believe that by saying "oh, I can see a scenario where it could have happened...." and stopping there, you are somehow inoculating yourself against accusation of conspiracy-mongering.

You are comically wrong.

Posted by: Will Folks at June 16, 2010 10:49 PM (GhUHn)

600 If there had been some initiating event on the sea floor,

What the fuck do you think a blowout is?

Eyewitness testimony:
Within two minutes, pressure caused by gas in the well pipe had spiked
dramatically, drilling records indicate. A torrent of methane gas struck
the rig. Out on the water, 40 feet away, a 260-foot supply ship called the Damon
B. Bankston was tethered to the rig by a hose. That ship's captain said
in an interview that he saw drilling "mud," which is used as a
counterweight to gas in the well, flying out of the drilling derrick
like a "volcano."

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 16, 2010 10:49 PM (S9AJM)

601 Damn sockpuppet!

BTW, Empire of Jeff, you're rolling tonight. Must be a Jeff thing.

Posted by: Jeff B. at June 16, 2010 10:50 PM (GhUHn)

602 Seriously... the arrogance and condescension you guys display is
staggering.

Fuck you, you ignoramus.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 16, 2010 10:51 PM (S9AJM)

603 Okay, I read the WSJ article. Nothing I'm seeing there supports your theory that the "trouble" required action on the sea floor.
Methane is often present in the ground in and near reservoirs of crude oil, and managing the threat is a regular part of drilling.
I see nothing to indicate that what was happening on the sea floor was in any way unusual. The problem occurred on the rig, where the standard methods for *dealing* with the regular issue of hitting a methane pocket failed to function.
One of the six huge engines that kept the floating platform stable was revving wildly.
...
Seconds later, the methane ignited, possibly triggered by the revving engine. That set off an explosion that blew away critical sections of the Deepwater Horizon, sheared off at least one engine, set large parts of the rig on fire and allowed oil to begin spewing into the sea.
I still fail to see how causing any of this required action on the sea floor. A saboteur could'veeasily done damagesuch that the next time a methane pocket was hit, events would transpire as they did, triggering an explosion and eventual sinking. No action on the sea floor was necessary for any of the events I'm reading in that WSJ article. Your extreme condescension and assholery is utterly unjustified by your link.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 16, 2010 11:00 PM (9zHDv)

604 Hmm... maybe Qwinn's right.
After all, in that movie Armadeggon, the fat guy who started drilling the asteroid got blown up by a pocket of gas, and Ben Affleck had to walk that fine line between burning up the last transmission and saving the Earth.
I bet if you reversed the polarity on the rig, when they tried their normal procedure to deal with gas pockets, the rig would blow up, instead.
You could probably do that with one guy.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 16, 2010 11:15 PM (xGIqT)

605 God, you're beinga douchebag. YES, one guy could throw a wrench in an engine and disable some methane sensors or pressure gauges so that"no methane had been detected on the Deepwater Horizon before the massive gas jolt." It would be fucking easy as hell. I have no bloody doubt that one competent engineer could do it. We're not talking about a human being attempting toalter some massive natural phenomenon like a freaking asteroid traveling through space, you complete git, we're talking about a guy throwing a few wrenches into some human-built *machines*. That's it. That's all it would've taken. Why are you being such an asshole about this? What is it about oil rig machinery that you think is so utterly f'ing sabotage-proof?

Posted by: Qwinn at June 16, 2010 11:21 PM (9zHDv)

606 Whether it was caused by negligence or incompetence or unforeseen developments or human error, it was an accident, plain and simple, and it should be treated as such. But clearly the Obama Administration has been dragging their heels and exploiting that situation as further justification for their insane cap 'n trade legislation. It is those people, not the people of B-P who are unscrupulous. It's all smoke and mirrors, They're demonizing B-P to conceal and to deflect attention away from their own incompetence and their own sleazy agenda.
BTW, B-P doesn't have 20 billion dollars, and Obama knows it. As of 5:00 p.m. yesterday, B-P's net worth was less than 7 billion, and Obama knows that, too, just as he knows that that 20 billion dollars will be paid by USA taxpayers and not by B-P, unless, of course, B-P can print the money like Obama does to pay our country's bills. Obama is sneak, a sleazeand a liar. That fact goes to the crux of all of those issues.

Posted by: A Casual Observation at June 16, 2010 11:24 PM (sYrWB)

607 Posted by: Qwinn at June 16, 2010 11:21 PM (9zHDv)

Don't sweat it. Some here feel that they are under an obligation to try and beat to death anyone who doesn't dismiss, out of hand, any mention of possible intent in the initial disaster, whether the person is espousing it as truth or just talking about it.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 16, 2010 11:29 PM (Qp4DT)

608 Wait, no, you're right. I've seen the light. Deliberately screwing around with oil rig machinery is *exactly like* altering the path of a nation-sized asteroid traveling through space. They're exactly the same. The proper workings of oil rig drills and pressure gauges and engines is like this awesome natural force... like a hurrican or a tornado. There's *no way* any one person could be smart enough to alter the natural event that is an oil drilling rig, or make it go boom. It would require every bit as many actorsas it would taketo create acontrolled demoltion of the World Trade Center. You're right.
And the best thing is, *you're* the guys doing wonderful things for the conservative movement, by taking a reasonably plausible conjecture about the possibility of sabotage on an oil rig, and *elevating* Trutherism to that level. Yeah, way to go guys! That's precisely what the conservative movement needs! Hysterical moral equivalence and rapid-fire ad hominems with the aim of equatinga perfectly plausibletheory of simple sabotage with the thousandof ridiculous impossibilities that would be requiredfor Trutherism to *still* be implausible.
Hey, let's drop the whole "Obama Administration" angle... let's say the sabotage was by *a rival Big Awl Company*! And they were doin' it for capitalist greed, by gum! Maybeif we make another corporation as the bad guy, and thus fit the standard Hollywood template, you might be able to assimilate the suggestion that your claims that oil rig sabotage is UNPOSSIBLES is freaking moronic.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 16, 2010 11:30 PM (9zHDv)

609 Leaving aside your hurtful comments for the moment, you might be interested to know that I confirmed my computer-sabotage theory.
I don't have an oil rig nearby, so I hacked into my pool's filter system. It's got the latest saltwater cell technology, but I have a few haXX0r tricks up my sleeve.
Getting past the pool's security system was tough, but the real bugbear was hiding my tracks. I rerouted my signal through a spam server in Malaysia, bounced off an Indian Telcom satellite, and piggybacked on the government's GPS signal (yeah, the aliens in ID4 came up with it, but it's still a cool trick).
At the programmed time, instead of putting out salt at 3300 ppm, it started putting out at 3350 ppm.
Fuckin' BICKETY-BAM.
One guy. It's doable.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 16, 2010 11:31 PM (xGIqT)

610 The explosion was unintended, but not, "Just an accident." It was the result of MMS approved shortcuts taken by BP.

Posted by: davidt at June 16, 2010 11:32 PM (HtIec)

611 BTW, B-P doesn't have 20 billion dollars, and
Obama knows it.

Posted by: A Casual Observation at June 16, 2010 11:24 PM (sYrWB)
Thus far, the arrangement is for BP to offer collateral for the sum and to put in 5 billion a year for four years. They've already decided, I gather, to forgo the next 3 dividend payments. That won't be the end - not nearly.And you're right that The Precedent will be getting lots of taxpayer money into this, too. But he's going to suck BP dry, first.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 16, 2010 11:33 PM (Qp4DT)

612 Empire of Jeff?
You may be the biggest moron - and not in a good way - I've ever seen on this site. No, seriously. Your arguments are simply becoming increasingly more unhinged andidiotic. I can't even follow it now. What is it, that doing the sabotage would've required *a computerpassword*? Where in the world could we *possibly* find *one person* with the knowledge of a security password? Getting a security password (not sure why you'd need to, actually, you could probablysabotage the entire thing by SNIPPING A COUPLE OF WIRES).
I said I didn't think BP as a company knowing about it would make any sense... but *one* BP employee bribed or otherwise persuaded to do it could do it easily. There is not one *serious* logistical barrier to sabotaging an oil rig, and your increasingly hysterical attempts to compare it to asteroids in space and mother ships is just making you look increasingly desperate. But I understand, you're all in now, and it's *way* too late for you to gracefully acknowledge the obvious. You'll keep attacking as viciously and idiotically as possible, cause socially, it's the only option you've got left.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 16, 2010 11:38 PM (9zHDv)

613 619 The explosion was unintended, but not, "Just an accident." It was the result of MMS approved shortcuts taken by BP.
Posted by: davidt at June 16, 2010 11:32 PM (HtIec)

I reiterate; it was an accident, and you haven't refuted that fact.
Like military officers in combat zones, businessmen in dangerous professions take calculated risks every day. If B-P hadn't had an accident, they would have saved millions, and they would have been heroes to their shareholders. Okay, so their plan didn't work. But that's the way that it goes in dangerous jobs. Some days you eat the bear, and some days the bear eats you. That's the risk that managers take. And the men working on those rigs are aware of those risks when they sign on to taske those jobs.

Posted by: A Casual Observation at June 16, 2010 11:49 PM (sYrWB)

614 I will say that Waterhouse, at least, had the integrity to actually establish some goalposts. Let's see how fast they move.
Because you're putting the cart before the horse. If you can't come up with a plausible mechanism for sabotage 1 mile deep in a well-monitored area that looks exactly like a blowout, then the stupid theory can't happen anyway.
Okay. Here's my plausible mechanism. All methane warning systems were disabled.
That's it. That's my plausible mechanism.In fact, it was almost certainly what caused the explosioneven if it was completely accidental.
Read the article that *you* provided as the authoritative source on what happened (and I agree, it's a great source. Find me ONE sentence in the entire article that is inconsistent with "All methane warning systems were disabled."
It is in fact utterly consistent with that mechanism, it is a *simple* mechanism, *yes*, a good hacker *really could* do it, and if it wasn't a hacker, it easily could've been a single disgruntled employee with the right access.
This was no natural disaster. It was 100% man made. There is nothing built by man that can't be fubared all to hell by other men.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you just cannot emotionally dealwith thereality of how easily something like this could happen. It *is* a testimony to the good work these companies do that it doesn't happen a whole lot more often. Or maybe you can't emotionally handle the idea of anyone being so evil as to intentionally start an oil spill. If you really believe that, then I can't see how anyone could everargue against the absolute, urgent, frantic need to deposeSaddam Hussein, the *only* human being*in the world* who would do it deliberately. Right.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 12:12 AM (9zHDv)

615 Qwinn,
That you feelit necessaryto seriously dissect and refute my "arguments" is probably the most delightfully idiotic exercise I've seen this month.
You are utterly without humor and common sense. Your lack of understanding of basic human nature and self-interest is only surpassed by your ignorance of petrochemical engineering, fluid dynamics and physics.
Sure, your lone-wolf suicidal engineer theory is entirely plausible. Deepwater rigs get a lot of anonymous foot traffic, situated as they arein the middle of busy cities. It would be easy for a highly trained engineer to sneak aboard and start disconnecting gauges, turning valves and/or planting explosives. Who would notice? Certainly not the dozens of workers ON the rig.And how easy is it to get a trained rig operator to undertake a suicide mission to blow upa rig?
Hell, in this economy, they'd probably line up around the block, huh? Why don't you post an ad on Craigslist and see what kind of responses you get.
I was going to confine myself to light ribbing, but you really are that big of an idiot. You need to hear that out loud.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 17, 2010 12:13 AM (xGIqT)

616 -->You [Qwinn] are utterly without humor and common sense.
Are you kidding (now)? There was no humor in your posts.
-->Your lack of understanding of basic human nature and self-interest That you are taking this argument, however, is hysterical.
-->is only surpassed by your ignorance of petrochemical engineering, fluid dynamics and physics.Er ... you don't really think this would all be necessary to gum up some works? Tell me you don't.
-->Sure, your lone-wolf suicidal engineer theory is entirely plausible. Deepwater rigs get a lot of anonymous foot traffic,
Huh? What does anonymous foot traffic have to do with anything? Is this the sort of humor you thought you were posting in your other comments?
-->situated as they are in the middle of busy cities. It would be easy for a highly trained engineer to sneak aboard [blah blah blah]
Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 17, 2010 12:13 AM (xGIqT)
Don't worry. Your asinine attack on all who might even mention the possibility of sabotage has been registered. You can rest easy, now.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 17, 2010 12:21 AM (Qp4DT)

617 Okay. Here's my plausible mechanism. All methane warning systems
were disabled.

Uh, they noticed pressure spikes, you colossally stupid fuck.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 12:36 AM (S9AJM)

618 You missed that in the article, you fucking imbecile?

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 12:36 AM (S9AJM)

619 I don't believe in the conspiracy theory that someone purposefully blew up the oil rig; however, some people are saying that it is impossible for someone to do it. I say baloney. Looking online, I found a list of jobs usually available on an offshore oil rig: Driller, Derrickman, Shakerhand or Mudman, Toolpusher, Floormen or
Roughnecks, Motorman, Assistant Driller, Crane Operator, Roustabouts,
Cleaner/Painter, Storekeeper, Mechanic/Electrician, Sub Sea Engineer,
Rig Mechanic, Rig Electrician, Rig Welder, Barge Engineer, Ballast
Controlman or Watchstander, Captain and Chief Engineer, Rig Medic and
Safety Man.

Not all of these jobs seem like they would require an advanced degree, just some training. Remember, the 911 pilots went to flight school to learn how to fly planes into buildings, so who is to say that an ELF member couldn't train in a job that would get them on an oil rig? All they would need, once on the rig, is the knowledge of how to cause an explosion with the materials on board (or bring some along) and the best place to cause an explosion to deal the most damage. After all, the 911 pilots weren't planing to take down the buildings, just to run planes into them.

Now, I'm the first to say this was just caused by an avoidable accident, but, don't delude yourself, it is possible for one individual with an agenda to gain access to a rig and cause an explosion.

Posted by: devilish at June 17, 2010 12:44 AM (vyRPu)

620 Now, I'm the first to say this was just caused by an avoidable accident,
but, don't delude yourself, it is possible for one individual with an
agenda to gain access to a rig and cause an explosion.
An explosion doesn't cause a blowout.

A blowout IN THE FUCKING WELL combined with a failure of the BOP AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FUCKING OCEAN are required to cause a spill which the fucking conspiracy fucknuts are saying was the aim here.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 12:49 AM (S9AJM)

621 Bite me. I was given goalposts. I met them. My response is *testable*. And I think my terms are pretty f'ing generous. Find me ONE non-opinionsentence in the WSJ article, describing the events,that is inconsistent with "Methane warning systems were disabled." YES, that would look *just like a fucking blowout*.
Actually, seeing as how your own idiocy is pretty established, looks like you'll need some help with it, huh?
"It would be easy for a highly trained engineer to sneak aboard and start disconnecting gauges, turning valves and/or planting explosives."
Holy crap, how dense are you? How does this in any way refute the thrice-stated extremely plausible possibility that it was done by a highly trained BP engineer/employee with ready access to everything he'd need? Cause it seems to me that your entire argument is devastated by a momentarily unobservant HR department. Cause, you know, qualified engineers are a dime a dozen and I'm sure they vet those *to the ends of the earth* - you smoked a joint in high school? Unemployable! And, of course, a BP employee could easily havehisentire familyheld hostage. Wait, no, that's unpossible too, certainly the Obama Administration wouldn't allow a family to be kidnapped, even if they don't live in the U.S.!
Anyways. If the system were thoroughly infiltrated, you coulddeactivate/mask everymonitor readout simultaneously by attacking it *at themonitor level*. Screw most of the actual sensors and gauges and valves - record a video of what a computerized monitor looks like *normally* for five minutes, smooth it out and put it on a loop. Most if not all of the computerized readouts will be dedicated displays and rarely interacted with save when *they* are reporting trouble.Once properly set up, you could trigger that trick *with a keystroke*, like, oh, for example,the moment the saboteur sees the gauges presaginga methane pocket. That trick wouldn't necessarily even need to work for more than ten minutes.
(By the way - I retract all the previousif the rig computers are running on Windows. Then we *know* the computers are unhackable.)
Course, that's just one plausible method, I'm sure there's plenty of other programmers out there more creative than me. Oh, but don't listen to me about what you can dowith computers via hacking, I've only been programming on multiple platformsprofessionally for 20 years.
That leaves the real, physical gauges. You apparently dream sweet dreams abouta crew of hot hunky hard-helmeted rejects fromThe Abyss casting pool whodrawl southernly and stand around looking at gauges all day when they've been given no reason to think by anyone on the computers that anything's wrong.
Who would notice? Certainly not the dozens of workers ON the rig.
Cause our saboteur engineer couldn't possibly tamper with those gauges while everyone's asleep - or in plain view, since he's the guy in charge of maintaining them anyway. Well, maybe that's a different guy, so okay, our conspiracy now needs to be two technical employees. Now I'm *really* getting crazy. But wait, there's more!
And how easy is it to get a trained rig operator to undertake a suicide mission to blow upa rig?
Yeah, that'd be crazy. I mean, next I'll be suggesting that *doctors* might undertake suicide missions. That's never happened - all violently suicidal people are poor sots who've been betrayed by our country's lack of social justice. You're right. Western education guarantees sanity and nonviolent tendencies, especially in leftists. You've caught me in yet another unpossible!
That WSJ article, those eyewitness accounts actually detailing the events, are completely consistent with a deactivation

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 12:52 AM (9zHDv)

622 At about 9:47 p.m., workers all over the rig heard a sudden hiss of
methane gas.

OMG! How the fuck did the workers HEAR the hissing of the methane gas if the mysterious computer hacker hacked all the methane warning devices?

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 12:52 AM (S9AJM)

623 "Everything started jumping up and down and rocking us," said Kevin
Senegal, 45, a tank cleaner, in an interview.

How the fuck could he sense something jumping up and down if the methane warning devices were all deactivated by some amazing hacker?

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 12:53 AM (S9AJM)

624 Multiple gas alarms were sounding.

It's impossible that multiple gas alarms were sounding! The methane warning devices were all deactivated!

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 12:54 AM (S9AJM)

625 At about 9:50 p.m., Stephen Curtis, the 40-year-old assistant driller
working with Mr. Anderson, called the rig's senior toolpusher, Randy
Ezell, who was in his sleeping quarters, according to a statement given
by Mr. Ezell to the Coast Guard. Mr. Curtis said that methane was
surging into the well and workers were on the verge of losing control.

How the fuck could Curtis know that? The warning devices were all deactivated!

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 12:58 AM (S9AJM)

626 The rig worker, who isn't identified in the notes, told him the drilling
crew was "getting mud back," a sign that gas was flooding into the
well. At that point, Mr. Vidrine rushed for the drilling floor, but
already "mud was everywhere," he told the Coast Guard.

How could he know he was getting mud back if the methane warning devices were all deactivated!?

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 12:59 AM (S9AJM)

627 A blowout IN THE FUCKING WELL combined with a failure
of the BOP AT THE BOTTOM OF THE FUCKING OCEAN are required to cause a
spill which the fucking conspiracy fucknuts are saying was the aim here.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 12:49 AM (S9AJM)
Uh ... someone could sabotage the rig without thinking that he's going to cause a major spill. Just burning the rig and disabling it could easily be an intention. Many of the spill problems had to do with the fact that the rig sank and broke the piping (not all, but many) which clearly would not have been a planned event. So what?Your reaction to any suggestion of sabotage is kind of strange. It really hurts you that deeply that someone would propose such a possibility, even as a thought experiment? Hmmm.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 17, 2010 12:59 AM (Qp4DT)

628 Seriously, did you even read the article?

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 12:59 AM (S9AJM)

629 "Uh, they noticed pressure spikes, you colossally stupid fuck."
On the readings and gauges where they're supposed to? Really? Point to me the sentence in the article that confirms that. Yes, they say the pressure shot up, which I think they would've felt fairly confident in proclaimingby observing *all the f'ing mud*.
The article explicitly says that the pressure increase was not noticed anywhere before the mud started flying except for in *one* room, and that room figured out it was coming with about two minutes' notice, which is why no one had time to do anything. Hey, here's a WHACKY possibility: he only disabled the *early warning* systems, the ones detecting the methanenear the intake, the ones that generally signal them to "stop drilling". And the readings they saw of the "pressure spikes" you cite were on the *non-early* warning systems, measuring the methane and pressure at the rig itself,that really convey that information after it's kinda too late
I dunno, I'm still laughing at how insistent you guys have been on the "engineer sneaks aboard" straw man,even after that point was easily refutedhalf a dozen times earlier.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 01:02 AM (9zHDv)

630 I don't know anything about this stuff, not like you guys, and I haven't done any real reading on it. But I'm reading your last bunch of posts and I'm wondering something. when I go to the gas station I see on the wall a prominent sign and under the sign is a button which can instantly turn off all the pumps in the event of an emergency. In my friend's mom's house, they have oil. They have an oil tank in the basement. At the top of the stairs is a bright red light switch with a switch. If something goes wrong with the oil tank or the heating system you can flick that switch from the top of the stairs. My friend has a pool and little kids. The filter inside the pool has all kinds of safety covers cause my friend says little kids have been known to be sucked into the pool filter. When they bought the house the first thing she did along with two fences around the pool was to install a switch by the pool and in the house to immediately cut the filter. So, why didn't the oil rig have a switch to immediately shut it down before as you said in your post they lost control?

Posted by: curious at June 17, 2010 01:03 AM (p302b)

631 "How could he know he was getting mud back if the methane warning devices were all deactivated!?"
Um, from looking at the mud *that was already everywhere*?

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 01:05 AM (9zHDv)

632 someone could sabotage the rig without thinking that he's going to cause a
major spill.

Uh, the whole point of this conspiracy theory is to cause a spill.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 01:05 AM (S9AJM)

633 Waterhose, you skipped the interesting parts:

"No methane had been detected on the Deepwater Horizon before the massive
gas jolt. So no "Level 1" gas emergency—according to Transocean safety
regulations, when "dangerous" levels of gas are detected in the well—had
been declared, according to crew members. That meant the crew had
gotten no general alert to prepare for trouble and no order to shut down
anything that might ignite the gas."

"When the pressure in the well spiked suddenly, the drilling crew had
limited options and little time to act."

Then there were tales of problems with the chain of command, further restricting action, ...

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 17, 2010 01:06 AM (Qp4DT)

634 Uh, the whole point of this conspiracy theory is to cause a spill.
Just checking, who decided this? You? I've been addressing only one thing: the monumentally stupid proposition that it's absolutely impossible to fake a blowout on an oil rig via deliberate sabotage. Utterly impossible. TRUTHERISM impossible.
Seriously, I never freakin' knew you guys thought Trutherism was so manifestly reasonable. It's the logical end of your hysterical see-no-evil diatribes.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 01:09 AM (9zHDv)

635 Uh, the whole point of this conspiracy theory is to
cause a spill.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 01:05 AM (S9AJM)
Says who? The conspiracy master? That's not what Qwinn was talking about and you are busy screaming at him.
For the conspiracy screwing things up in the BOP and well, that goes to MMS and the way they let BP cut corners, which is a bit strange for eco-nuts serving as regulators to allow. Kind of like Bill Cosby and his description of doing the dishes, if you know what I mean.Just acknowledging that these are possibilities does not constitute some sort of heresy and no one should be tossed aside because they entertain them. Argued against? Sure. But not some foaming mouth attack as if it would be beyond insane to even contemplate the possibility. More insane things have been done by this feral government right in front of our eyes. Just the way they have intentionally fucked up the containment and clean-up is pretty damning, though even with that I don't think anyone seriosly thinks that the origin of the spill was truly intentional.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 17, 2010 01:11 AM (Qp4DT)

636 Just checking, who decided this?

Without the giant spill, it's just another industrial accident. How does that advance the agenda for ramming through cap-n-trade, which is part and parcel of the conspiracy theory?

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 01:13 AM (S9AJM)

637 I've been addressing only one thing: the monumentally stupid
proposition that it's absolutely impossible to fake a blowout on an
oil rig via deliberate sabotage.

You've successfully demonstrated you don't know what a blowout is, or why a blowout preventer at the bottom of the ocean is in place.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 01:14 AM (S9AJM)

638 Thank you, progressoverpeace. Yes, that's the passage that really struck out at me.
Let's read that again:
"No methane had been detected on the Deepwater Horizon before the massive gas jolt. So no "Level 1" gas emergency—according to Transocean safety regulations, when "dangerous" levels of gas are detected in the well—had been declared, according to crew members. That meant the crew had gotten no general alert to prepare for trouble and no order to shut down anything that might ignite the gas."
That's entirely consistent with my theory. You gotta stretch to makethatconsistent with yours, really desperately needing it to be The Mother Of All Super Pressurized Methane Pockets, whereas in my version, it's a regular old methane pocket, and an asshole deliberately gumming up the works.
Never attribute to malice what can be attributed to once-in-a-lifetime freaknatural occurrences!

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 01:15 AM (9zHDv)

639 So, why didn't the oil rig have a
switch to
immediately shut it down before as you said in your post they lost
control?


Posted by: curious at June 17, 2010 01:03 AM (p302b)


The article addressed that.
"At about 9:50 p.m., Stephen Curtis, the
40-year-old assistant driller
working with Mr. Anderson, called the rig's senior toolpusher, Randy
Ezell, who was in his sleeping quarters, according to a statement given
by Mr. Ezell to the Coast Guard. Mr. Curtis said that methane was
surging into the well and workers were on the verge of losing control.
Two
rig workers who later discussed the matter with Mr. Ezell said he was
told that Mr. Anderson was going to trigger the blowout preventer, a
450-ton device designed to slice the drill pipe at the ocean floor and
seal the well in less than a minute. If triggered in time, it might have
been enough to prevent the explosions, or at least limit the scale of
the disaster, say some drilling experts. Mr. Ezell prepared to go to the
drilling floor, according to his statement.
Seconds later, the
methane ignited, possibly triggered by the revving engine. That set off
an explosion that blew away critical sections of the Deepwater Horizon,
sheared off at least one engine, set large parts of the rig on fire and
allowed oil to begin spewing into the sea."Read the article. It's very good. The link's in one of Waterhouse's posts upthread.


Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 17, 2010 01:17 AM (Qp4DT)

640 Without the giant spill, it's just another industrial
accident. How does that advance the agenda for ramming through
cap-n-trade, which is part and parcel of the conspiracy theory?

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 01:13 AM (S9AJM)
Passing CrapTrade is not the alleged intention (not the only one) of a plausible conspiracy to do this, or sabotage by a third party. I don't think The Precedent cares about passing CrapTrade, myself. Without the spill, the explosion of the rig would have been enough to call for a stop to all offshore drilling - just in case *wink* - and just cause some good, general chaos. Is that so tough to accept, in the realm of possible motivations? I don't think so.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 17, 2010 01:25 AM (Qp4DT)

641 My friend has a pool and little kids. The filter inside the pool has all kinds of safety covers cause my friend says little kids have been known to be sucked into the pool filter. When they bought the house the first thing she did along with two fences around the pool was to install a switch by the pool and in the house to immediately cut the filter.
Posted by: curious at June 17, 2010 01:03 AM (p302b)

That reminds me. Not too long ago, there was a story in the news here about some horny dufus who got his pecker stuck in the hole on the side of his swimming pool from where water is sucked out of the pool and recirculated.
Imagine the guy's embarrassment when firemen and cops and paramedics had to work together to pry his pecker out of the hole, 'cause his wife had somehow "accidentally" damaged the water pump and they couldn't shut it off. Betcha that was a blow job he'll never forget.
Just thought that I'd change the subject before Waterhouse puts his fist though his computer, and to get Qwinn to stop spitting at his, too.

Posted by: A Casual Observation at June 17, 2010 01:27 AM (sYrWB)

642 You gotta stretch to makethatconsistent with yours, really desperately
needing it to be The Mother Of All Super Pressurized Methane Pockets

Yeah, too bad there's no confirmation for that highly-pressurized pocket theory like, say, an absolutely enormous subsequent flow of oil and gas out of the well.

Oh, wait.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 01:31 AM (S9AJM)

643 Posted by: A Casual Observation at June 17, 2010 01:27 AM (sYrWB)

OMG that was too funny but OMG how painful must that have been for the guy...

yeah, never seen my friend as serious as she was about making sure that filter could not harm her kids and let them enjoy the pool...She put up two fences and one of them is below ground too and she has alarms on all the doors. To me the kids look like little angels and if she says do not go near the pool unless i'm with you or dad is with you I think they are smart enough to understand, she, however, sees them differently as like little plotting criminals whose only end is to make it into the pool while mom and dad are distracted and well it's funny but I guess she is better to be safe than sorry.

Posted by: curious at June 17, 2010 01:33 AM (p302b)

644 "Yeah, too bad there's no confirmation for that highly-pressurized pocket theory like, say, an absolutely enormous subsequent flow of oil and gas out of the well."
There's a lot of oil... exactly where did you confirm thata crapload of highly pressurized gas is also coming out? That's amazing, man, you should call the Precedent, since as far as I can tell BP has had to revise their estimates of how much oil - just oil - has been spilling out repeatedly, and yet you know the quantities of methane gas too! That's awesome.
Look, your entire rebuttal forces me to painfully admit that I should revise my mechanism to: "All methane warning systems *below sea level* were disabled." The ones reading the pressure and methane at sea level, where it's way too late for useful warning, had no need to be tampered with. In fact, I bet there isn't a single "analog" gauge on the actual rig that is measuring the pressure more than a few dozen, maybe hundred feet down. I bet every single sensorand warning device measuring methane and pressure below a few hundred feet comes through via computer. So, yeah, no need for anyone to be sneaking around on the ship fiddling with gaugues and valves. Just turn off all the *early* warning systems that measure pressure in the bottom 90% of the pipe. I submit you'd get pretty much exactly what happened.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 01:40 AM (9zHDv)

645 Curious, you're so cute that you crack me up, and I'll betcha that you don't know why.

Posted by: A Casual Observation at June 17, 2010 02:07 AM (sYrWB)

646 Ace: Lithium rhymes with Vacation. Mmmm Mmmm Mmmm Lithium.

Posted by: societyis2blame at June 17, 2010 02:08 AM (7ZyYf)

647 That's amazing, man, you should call
the Precedent, since as far as I
can tell BP has had to revise their estimates of how much oil - just oil
- has been spilling out repeatedly, and yet you know the quantities of
methane gas too!





So you think the oil and gas are in different reservoirs? Interesting.
You sure sound like a real oil well expert.





"All methane warning systems *below
sea level* were disabled."





Look, it's pretty clear you're talking out of your ass. It's physically impossible to get
methane in the drill pipe without also seeing a pressure increase, because the
methane has to get up the drill pipe to the rig, and in order to get up
the drill pipe to the rig, the methane has to push the drill mud away.
They saw the pressure spikes. They saw the drill mud get pushed out. So
they knew the methane was there. Methane doesn't just magically appear
like
you seem to think it does. It just hit them too fast, with too much
pressure. Every statement in that article makes it clear the pressure
was unusual - drill mud shooting like a volcano, workers saying "Oh man,
that's not good", methane "surging" into the well. That sounds like a
routine incident to you?



Your premise is that methane can sneak into and up a drill pipe with no
other indication than methane detectors alone. Your premise is
impossible, which was my original point, that conspiracy theorists
ignore all actual evidence and numerous laws of physics and make up impossible scenarios based on
their staggering ignorance.





And, for about the fifteenth time, do you understand that the blowout
preventer is at the bottom of the ocean, is supposed to triggered
automatically by
pressure which the crew saw,
and would have had to have been put out of commission for your stupid fucking 'methane-alarm-device' sabotage theory to work, which it can't anyway?

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 02:26 AM (S9AJM)

648 Just turn off all the *early* warning systems that measure pressure in
the bottom 90% of the pipe.

They saw the pressure spike. Fail.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 02:33 AM (S9AJM)

649 The ones reading the pressure and methane at sea level, where it's way
too late for useful warning,

Yeah, I'm sure you know how much warning is required.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 02:35 AM (S9AJM)

Posted by: Good Night George at June 17, 2010 02:38 AM (sYrWB)

Posted by: Good Night Gracie at June 17, 2010 02:38 AM (sYrWB)

652 Good night Mrs. Kallabash, wherever you are!!! Ha-cha-cha-cha!!!!!!

Posted by: Jimmy Durante at June 17, 2010 02:43 AM (sYrWB)

653 Without the spill, the explosion of the rig would have been enough to
call for a stop to all offshore drilling - just in case *wink* - and
just cause some good, general chaos. Is that so tough to accept, in the
realm of possible motivations? I don't think so.

I do. Open up drilling, stage a fire/explosion (which is hardly unprecedented and has happened before) a few weeks later, then close drilling ... what's the point? The administration then saying it didn't take into account the previous fires (the only reason to shut the industry down based on a type of incident which has happened before which but which didn't shut the industry down before) doesn't buy it anything except a sheen of incompetence.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 02:50 AM (S9AJM)

654 -->The administration then saying it didn't take into
account the previous fires (the only reason to shut the industry down
based on a type of incident which has happened before which but which
didn't shut the industry down before)

Who knows what bullshit argument the administration would take, just with the deaths and the rig fire? You don't. If you look at their history, they could say anything.

I like that you think they need a "reason" to do something". You still think this administration is bound by logic and common sense. That's quaint, really. Have you been watching these lunatics?

I'm just arguing the possibility for contemplation of the scenario and, within that, your argument depending on the reasonableness and integrity of the Indonesian Imbecile and his lunatics is laughable. In what other area have these guys ever found themselves bound by tradition, law, or reason? They just sucked $20 billion right out of BP, with no force of law behind them and no precedent. Quite the opposite.

-->doesn't buy it anything except a
sheen of incompetence.

Posted by: Waterhouse at June 17, 2010 02:50 AM (S9AJM)
As if that ever stopped these jokers, anyway. They've embarrassed themselves umpteen times, already, and don't seem to care in the least. How did you explain the Copenhagen Olympics fiasco? Did you understand their motivations for doing that? I did.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 17, 2010 03:31 AM (Qp4DT)

655 "They saw the pressure spikes."
"They saw the pressure spike. Fail."
You have demonstrated your infinite ability to keep repeatingthese words, but you continue to fail to cite anywhere in the article that supports it.Nothing in the articlesuggests thatanything unusualwas detected *below sea level*. Sure, less than two minutes before themethanestarted bursting out, the *sea level* gauges went wild. The mud just mysteriously magically appeared at the top of the pipe, detected at the very bottom ofa *mile longpipe*, and bursting out the top less than two minutes later.
Nothing in the article reinforces your assumption that they detected the increasebefore it was already violently felt at sea level. The article says it explicitly: Guycalls Boss: "We've got mud coming up!". Boss runs out the door and mud is *already everywhere*. There is absolutely nothing in the quote that suggests they detected the mud *before it started gushing out the top of the pipe*.Or do you think, if a guy looks at the pipe and sees mud gushing out, it would be unusual or impractical for him to call his boss and say "We've got mud coming up?" That is one of the quotes that you cited that supposedly establishes your droning repetition of your claim. It's wrong.
Seriously, it's hysterical that you think this is a good argument:
How could he know he was getting mud back if the methane warning devices were all deactivated!?
By looking out the window, since it started spewing out of it before any other warning. You know. Exactly like the article describes, explicitly.
Another thing that's really cute is that you actually cite workers in the article going "Uh oh, that's not good" and "wow, this is unusual" as if it actually validates your point. It fits my scenario much better than yours. That means the pressure from this pocket wasn't just a *little*, or even *moderately* more powerful than what they encounter in normal operation, it was *way way way* beyond the norm.
Curiously, the strangeness, unusualness, and "not goodness" of such an event would be *equally* as dramatic and unprecedented if you, you know, *didn't see the problem, and didn't stop drillingor pumping, because someone turned all the underwater sensor alarms off*. I know! It's crazy how that works, isn't it!?

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 03:31 AM (9zHDv)

656

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 03:31 AM (9zHDv)
Heh. It's one of those threads. It seems like some of the overly strong attempts to show how "impossible" and "unreasonable" all of this is, is more for them to convince themselves. Methinks the lady doth protest too much.I think that it's interesting that it all happened when two honchos were there, celebrating 7 straight years without a problem. It's like out of a bad movie. I consider it coincidence, but I wouldn't jump on anyone who was more suspicious and wanted an investigation.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 17, 2010 03:45 AM (Qp4DT)

657 Yeah, I'm sure you know how much warning is required.
I suspect my assumptions are more accurate than yours! You know how? Becauseif max 2 minutes warning along a freaking *mile* of pipe,with a standard practice that human intervention is required to take actions that would prevent disaster... if 2 minutes... or 3 minutes... or, hell, only 10 minuteswarning to shut down the pumps were anything even remotely *near*the realm of the probable,then either we'd be seeing disasters like this or companies would be shearing their pipes at 5000 feet depth every third bloody week. As you yourself insist, everyone on that rig was shocked. They'd never seen anything like it. And you think this actually supports the "natural phenomenon" theory? Is there anything remotely resembling logic in that?
The article explicitly states that they had no warning until the "gas jolt" hit. For no apparent reason, you seem to think "the gas jolt" occurred at the *bottom* of the pipe, and that's where they first saw it. Hey, if that's the case, and if physical laws *require* that the mud must be pushed out of the way first, why didn't the mud give them any warning at all?

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 03:46 AM (9zHDv)

658 OK - maybe I, too, am a conspiracy nut: But count me in as one of those that suspects this is a plot to, perhaps, lampoon the truthers. I haven't read the whole thread - so suspect this is a theory that has been propounded at some length here.

Obviously, a BP-Obama conspiracy is absurd - but it's right on a par with the moonflight-sham orchestra.

Posted by: Roger at June 17, 2010 03:48 AM (tAwhy)

659 Actually, a shorter response could as easily have been: Fine. I will again modify my mechanism.
All methane, pressure *and mud* sensors below sea level were deactivated.
It would be nice if you could produce an argument that required modifying the mechanism by more than three entirely plausible words.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 03:50 AM (9zHDv)

660 Sorry, rereading again, yes, the mud gave them warning of the methane, it did come back before the gas jolt. Like, by mere minutes according to the article, but still. Had a brain fart there.
My point stands, though. They should've had much more than 2 minutes warning... sensors should have detected the methane starting to enter the bottom of the pipe *long* before the mud came back. There's no logical explanation why the mud coming back was the *first hint* that there was methane. Except that the sensors were disabled.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 04:05 AM (9zHDv)

661 Okay, final sum up, then I'm getting some sleep:
The article makes it explicitly clear: other than the mud coming back, there was *no* alarm or sensor detection of methane gas anywhere along the entire mile long well (actually, over 3 miles, no? 5000 below plus 13,000 feet into the rock).
That is, as far as I can tell, indisputable from the article. So, when the article explicitly says that no methane sensors sounded until 9:47 at which point "everyone on the rig" heard the "massive gas jolt" start coming out of the well, why am I being given shit for stating that, uh, the sensors didn't detect the methane until it was at the top of the well?
My mechanism isn't conjecture. It's exactly what is documenting as having happened. The below sea level methanesensors simply didn't work. Period. The first hint of trouble was the mud coming back.
At this point, you can argue that the sensors weren't deactivated *deliberately*... but how the hell can you argue that the were active at all? They weren't. There was no methane alarm.
The failure of the methane alarm caused the entire disaster. If it had been detected, they would've followed standard operating procedures and shut down any equipment that could create a spark and ignite the methane until the gas had passed (no pun intended). No warning, no shutdown, boom.
So, yeah, I don't even get what your objection is. The sensors and methane alarms did fail until gas was already coming out of the pipe. That's explicit in the article.
I don't even begin to see how your argument works without basically claiming that, yes, sensors can fail by accident, but no, they can't fail by sabotage. *That* is what's completely loony.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 04:27 AM (9zHDv)

662 Occam's Razor and Hanlon's Razor together make a fine pair of scissors. That said, there can be little doubt that His Oneness is exploiting the crisis every bit as thoroughly as he would if it were somehow the case that he or his friends personally arranged to sabotage the oil rig. Taking into account the impracticalities of actually accomplishing what the conspiracy theories purport, and applying the scissors, it is virtually certain that this is not the case, nor does it need to be.

That it happened, and that it is terribly convenient for the O-team, can be in no doubt. That the O-team might even be glad that this happened, to the point that they might even wish they could have created this incident a couple months earlier to allow more breathing room before November, is not wholly unfair to suggest if you accept the postulation that they are an utterly rotten bunch of Chicago thugs.

Going much farther than that, I'd be delving into the absurd. Yet if there were, hypothetically, some yet-to-be-documented but fundamentally plausible explanation of how it could have been done, would it not be an item of interest? It is for this reason that I urge caution before zealously condemning the Crazy Tank. There is a place for the Crazy Tank within rational discussion; it is the toilet in which we take our intellectual dumps. Generally, it's full of shit, but check to make sure nobody's dropped their Rolex in before flushing. And certainly, the mere act of using the toilet is not just cause for unrelenting spleen-burstingly spiteful scorn, at least for those of us who are not Charles Johnson.

Posted by: George guy at June 17, 2010 05:09 AM (T1RZc)

663 One more:
Your premise is that methane can sneak into and up a drill pipe with no other indication than methane detectors alone.
I never said that. I said that by the time any other indicators (like mud coming back) are visible at the top of the 3.5 mile well, it's pretty much too bloody late to do anything about it.
You apparently accept the *failure* of 3.5 miles of methane sensors without even batting a freaking eyelid. Yeah, so they all failed. Big deal. They would've found out about it some other way!
All the methane sensorscan all fail simultaneously, so that no one knows there's methane in the well until the mud is coming back, and it's batshit looney to wonder why 3.5 miles worth of methane sensors all failed to trigger an alarm right up until the point that methane was coming *out* of the top of the 3.5 mile well. Nothing to see here. Move along. All those methane sensors failing - that's perfectly normal. Happens all the time.
It's amazing, the datasome people will ignore to keep their narrative.


Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 05:11 AM (9zHDv)

664 I think he's right.

Posted by: Phil Jones at June 17, 2010 07:33 AM (I7eYT)

665 Good morning, nutter.

I see you've still failed to educate yourself on what a blowout preventer is, how it normally, you know, PREVENTS blowouts and the history of problems BP had with the BOP on the Deepwater Horizon.

I also see that you've failed to mention the months of problems they had with gas pockets and kicking leading up to the accident.

They were 5 weeks behind on drilling at the time of the accident. At one million dollars a day, BP was pushing their operators with no regard to anything but bringing in the well. Company documents showed multiple instances of pushing ahead with drilling while ignoring workers' safety concerns.

They had plenty of warnings. Warnings that should have shut down the rig until they could bring the multiple reported failures under control. But that costs a lot of money, and since BP was behind schedule and losing a lot of money, they decided to push on anyways.

But I guess it's just so much more fun to ignore the testimony of the workers that were ON the rig and say, no - it was sabotage. Oh, and to cover yourself with the weaselly fig leaf of, "I'm just saying it's POSSIBLE."

Douche.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 17, 2010 09:10 AM (xGIqT)

666 All the problems listed in your last post could very well have existed. And... yet... had nothing to do with this disaster. None of those other problemschange the simple inevitable fact that the proximate cause of *this disaster*was the failure of anymethane sensors. Full stop. Period.
"I see you've still failed to educate yourself on what a blowout preventer is, how it normally, you know, PREVENTS blowouts"
Uh. Right. The *normal* way blowouts get prevented is by the company *shearing* the freaking pipe at 5000 feet depth. That's the NORMAL thing that happens when methane gets into the pipe. Any methane at all? Blowout preventer kicks on! We're saved!
Moron. Yes, you've explained adequately ho the secondary and tertiary backup systems failed to prevent the disaster once the pipe started spewing out methane without any warning whatsoever.
Acar crashes into a tree. The brakes fail to respond, and the airbag fails to deploy. Talking with you is like repeatedly pointing at a cut brake line and you waving your raggedy fists screaming "But the airbag failed! THE AIRBAG FAAAAAILED..." The airbag/blowout preventer/allllllll the other procedures and safety measures BP was supposedly sucking at, *none* of them would've been necessary if the methane alarms had gone off like they're supposed to the *second* methane entered the well at the *bottom*, not out of the freaking top.
Jesus CHRIST, what is so *f'ing* difficult to understand about that?

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 10:38 AM (9zHDv)

667 They had plenty of warnings.
Except for, you know, *the warning they usually get when there's methane in the pipe*.

But I guess it's just so much more fun to ignore the testimony of the workers that were ON the rig
No methane had been detected on the Deepwater Horizon before the massive gas jolt. So no "Level 1" gas emergency—according to Transocean safety regulations, when "dangerous" levels of gas are detected in the well—had been declared, according to crew members. That meant the crew had gotten no general alert to prepare for trouble and no order to shut down anything that might ignite the gas.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 10:42 AM (9zHDv)

668 Oh, and yes, if only the blowout preventer had gone off, shearing the pipe at the *bottom*, everything woulda been saved. Except... wait... they did press the button. And it did nothing. Maybe it's because the pipe was *already* full of methane, and it was already spewing out of the top, and cutting off the flow at the bottom was *way* too late at that point? Seems pretty bloody obvious to me... particularly when you add the fact that they claim they *did* push the button.... and it had no visible effect. Gee, you think? Does it make any sense that shearing the pipe at the ocean floor would instantly stop a mile long well filled with methane from continuing toemit methane? Too bad the blowout preventer a mile under the ocean doesn't also come standard with a big vacuum cleaner to suck back all the methane that had *already* filled the pipe.
The blowout preventer, even if it was working 100% perfectly,was completely useless *because* the methane sensors were broken and the pipe was already full of methane. But *you* seem to think that the blowout preventer *deploys automatically* when methaneenters the pipe. Never mind that that iscompletely contradicted by the article, which makes it obvious it's the measure of last resort and *never* happens automatically. Whatever. You're brilliant, you are.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 10:56 AM (9zHDv)

669 Oh, and one more. Taling about *ignoring the crew and eyewitness reports*:
In written responses to the Journal, Transocean said that the time between the first sign of trouble and the catastrophic explosion was too short for the crew to have done anything to effectively prevent or minimize the disaster.
That there was insufficient time between warning and explosion is reinforced by virtually every single line and testimony cited in that article.
Nonsense, says Waterhouse! They had *plenty* of warning! Plenty of time! And clearly only I, the great Waterhouse, am really paying attention to the details of this report! And everyone who disagrees with my assessment that they had plenty of warning and time is a complete loon and adouche! IWIN!

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 11:06 AM (9zHDv)

670 @25 - same here. I promoted Randall on my blog earlier in the year. Egad. Something fishy happened on hix Facebook page and after that my interested in him cooled significantly. I voted for Dan Huffman in the primary and was having a hard time deciding who to vote for in the runoff. This helped seal the deal.

Although like you, I'll take ANY republican over Brad Miller.

Posted by: tarheelpundit at June 17, 2010 11:12 AM (hkRUx)

671 Wow... whether or not it was an accident, I see a lot of "facts"being statedthat it was, or fullout statements on the cause, while calling the other side looney.
No, I see a lot of "beliefs" being stated as facts. Raising questions with "evidence" is one thing, but conclusions without empirical facts is another.
I'm reminded of atheists stating that God doesn't exist, or believers stating that he does for a fact.

Posted by: dum blond at June 17, 2010 11:33 AM (gbCNS)

672 There's nothing looney about believing it was an accident.
It *is* looney to claim that the proximate cause of the disaster was the failure of the blowout preventer... you know, the ultimate measure of last resort that means the company has to virtually start over from scratch because *they sheared the bloodypipein half at the ocean floor*. To describe that as the "normal" way that the situation gets dealt with is, IMHO, the looniest statement made in this thread so far - and this by a guy who keeps shouting "You don't know what a blowout preventer is!". There is absolutely nothing "normal" about having a 450 ton device shear the pipe in half in order to deal with the drill hitting a methane pocket, fercryingoutloud. Hitting methane is *only* dangerous *if there's no warning*. Once there's no warning, and thewell is already filled with pressurized methane, shearing the pipe at the bottom of the ocean *ain't gonna immediately stop the methane from coming out of the well and finding a spark*. What is it about "by the time we had any warning it was too late to do anything" quoted repeatedly in the report is hard to find? How the *hell* do you turn around and then claim "the failure of the warning devices to provide sufficient time to deal with the methane is completely immaterial to the explosion"? I mean, seriously? WTF? That's utterly insane.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 11:43 AM (9zHDv)

673 #651
www.iloveinwatch.com

...

www.iloveinwatch.com

...

www.iloveinwatch.com



www.lovelamp.com!



Unfortunately there's a squatter on that domain

Posted by: Chairman LMAO at June 17, 2010 11:50 AM (snlsw)

674 http://tinyurl.com/37culuh
Months of warnings.
Fucking Joseph and the Reality-Proof Dreamcoat.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 17, 2010 12:01 PM (xGIqT)

675 The very first example of "warnings" from that NY Times article:
"On June 22, for example, BP engineers expressed concerns that the metal casing the company wanted to use might collapse under high pressure. "
Did that actually happen? Did it actually have anything to do with what happened? Then why does it matter? I mean, as a sign of lax safety conditions, sure, but it didn't have anything to do with the sensor failure that prevented any warning about the *methane*.
Look - at 9:47pm, "everyone on the rig" heard the methane suddenly and without ejecting from the pipe. The only reason the rig didn't blow *at that second* was because there wasn't a spark available in the right place right at that moment to set it off. When, exactly, was the blowout preventer supposed to kick off in that scenario? And how would shearing the pipe at the bottom stop a whole lot of the pressurized methane *already in the mile long pipe* from continuing to rise out of the well, finding a spark, and going boom?
Show me where there were warnings thatevery methane sensor in the wellwould simultaneously fail, and it'll be relevant. But I'm not sure what it is about warningsof thingsthat didn't happen is supposed to prove.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 12:14 PM (9zHDv)

676 Tell you what, super genius.
I'll go with the reams of internal documents, testimony from company officials, regulators, workers on the rig, and the earlier documented safety problems on the rig that point to negligence, incompetence and greed on the part of BP.
Documented orders to continue operations after being warned by drillers who feared for their jobs if they refused orders. Orders given by a company that wanted that rig drilling another well, and who were 5 weeks and $20 million behind.
I'll go with THAT. You go ahead and go with ninja sabotage.
Just one question. Where's your evidence?
Oh, you don't have any? It must have been destroyed in the explosion. That IS how ninjas roll, after all.
Oh, I get it. You're not saying that's what happened, just that it's possible.
It's also possible that an alien warship in low orbit detected a gas buildup on the rig and used their heat ray to ignite it, causing the explosion.
AND THERE IS JUST AS MUCH EVIDENCE TO SUPPORT THAT THEORY.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 17, 2010 12:23 PM (xGIqT)

677 There's nothing looney about believing it was an accident.
Nothing against either side for stating "beliefs" unless they're stated as "facts."
Stating that "it was an accident, pure and simple" is just as looney and grandiose as stating the presidunce's motives as fact.
Nobody really knows as far as we know.

Posted by: dum blond at June 17, 2010 12:25 PM (gbCNS)

678 Everythingabout "the demon awl company's greed"could be true, and it stilldoes absolutely nothing to explain why methane was already spilling out the well so forcefully that everyone on the rig could hear it without the methane warning alarms going off.
YOU have yet to give any explanation of how all those sensors failed. Initially, I was told that it was absolutely unpossible for someone to turn those sensors off deliberately. Now, we're supposed to believe it happend *spontaneously* as a result of lax safety standards?
So you *insist* - without a shred of evidence - that allthose sensors failed simultaneously by accident... an act of God... bypassing all the redundancies and all the multiple ways the system is designed to prevent exactlysuch a sensor failure. And, furthermore,it is totally impossible - absolutely crazy! - that it might havehappened by someone flicking a switch and turning the alarms off deliberately.
Occam's Razor is firmly on my side here.
Oh, and remember this?
Because you're putting the cart before the horse. If you can't come up with a plausible mechanism for sabotage 1 mile deep in a well-monitored area that looks exactly like a blowout, then the stupid theory can't happen anyway.
I gave you an extremely plausible mechanism. You didn't require proof that the actual sabotage occurred, but now that I've given you an *entirely* plausible method whereby*one person* could've easily simply turned off the methane alarms, oh, now I have to give you solid evidence that it actually happened that way. How much trouble did you have getting those goalposts motorized?

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 12:30 PM (9zHDv)

679 I gave you an extremely plausible mechanism.
No, you didn't.
You didn't require proof that the actual sabotage occurred, but now that I've given you an *entirely* plausible method whereby*one person* could've easily simply turned off the methane alarms
Please explain, in technical detail, how this could be accomplished. "Disabling the monitors" is a goal, not a method.
I would like you to show me the schematics of the Deepwater Horizon, and walk me through how this rig was sabotaged. You don't have to prove that it WAS done. Just that it could be done. So far you haven't done even that.
But I'm sure with your extensive knowledge of drilling platform and pressure vessel engineering, you can have that whipped up in no time.
"And then they turned off the sensors! It's Teh Simple!" is not a method. It is your fantasy. Walk us through it.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 17, 2010 12:40 PM (xGIqT)

680
Posted by: Empire
of Jeff at June 17, 2010 12:01 PM
(xGIqT)



So ... you're taking the position that it is likely criminal negligence
on the parts of the regulators and BP? Eco-freak regulators put in by
the junta? Is that what you are saying?



You seem to have a problem understanding that Qwinn is talking about the
possibility of sabotage, not that that is what happened. It certainly
is possible. You are trying to claim that sabotage is IMPOSSIBLE
because there was tons of criminal negligence going on and you are
trying to say, "You can't prove it happened, so it's impossible that it
happened." That is just stupid. A negligent operation is much easier
to screw up than a well-managed one, if someone so desired.

That you are not willing to even entertain the possibility of something that is clearly possible just goes to show that you are putting on a pose for someone. And that assessment is giving you the benefit of the doubt - which you really don't deserve.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at June 17, 2010 12:42 PM (Qp4DT)

681 Seems to me your argument has now devolved into: "You have no evidence thatoil rigmethane sensor alarmshave an off switch."
But all of those sensors failing spontaneously, naturally, and without any human intervention? Well, duh, that's the *default* position to take, that's obviously far far far more believable, and if you don't believe that's what happened with all the fervor of Moses on the Mountain, then you're a complete loon. Have I got that about right?

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 12:44 PM (9zHDv)

682 @ 694
Alternatively, you could go fuck yourself.
Anything is possible, including attack by aliens. And for which there is just as much evidence as there is for sabotage. And no, I am not willing to entertain scenarios that are so improbable that they are absurd.
I'm not posing for anyone. I've already gotten laid this morning, and since I don't smoke anymore, poking a couple of humorless assholes with a stick serves to replace that lazy pleasure.
Was it good for you?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 17, 2010 12:50 PM (xGIqT)

683 Okay, so. Your scenario REQUIRES that the entire methane sensor alarm systems completely failed, of its own accord. According to you, this is *infinitely* more probable than someone with computer access turning them off deliberately (or hell, even accidentally).
Spontaneous widespread simultaneous failure of redundant alarm systems? *Obvious*. *To be expected*. *Requires no investigation*. *Requires no evidence to confirm.*
Someone with access turning them off? *Absurd*. *Impossible*. *Where's the evidence?*
Apparently, you feel that the BP people had *crack* security systems, utterly unbreachable, *no one in the universe could possibly pull up the menu and select the "Deactivate Methane Alarms" option, because that's just crazy. But this same group of people who design absolutely inpenetrable computer security (it even prevents employees from turning the alarmsoff, apparently) were so mind boggingly incompetent that *the entire system failed in an act not unlike spontaneous combustion*.
Security on the computer controlling the alarm? Inpenetrable! Breaching it? Inconceivable! The entire fucking thing disintegrating and failing to function? Well, duh, obviously.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 12:57 PM (9zHDv)

684 Still waiting for that schematic of the Deepwater Horizon complete with a technical explanation of how the sabotage was carried out.

Please quit asking me to prove your batshit insane theory for you.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 17, 2010 01:04 PM (xGIqT)

685 "Still waiting for that schematic of the Deepwater Horizon complete with a technical explanation of how the sabotage was carried out."
Yeah, those goalposts haven't moved *at all*, eh? I think when you have to get this absurd in your demands in order to stick to your argument, you've *overwhelmingly* lost.
Like everything fucking else in the fucking universe of modern fucking human machinery, the only thing required for someone to turn *any* mechanized system off... is acomputer login and password. That someone could acquire such a login and password, either legitimately or illegitimately, is apparently utterly unpossible, while widespread simultaneous spontaneous failure of redundant alarm systems is just another monday at the office. I'm sorry, but YOU are the freaking loon here.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 01:08 PM (9zHDv)

686 Like everything fucking else in the fucking universe of modern fucking human machinery, the only thing required for someone to turn *any* mechanized system off... is acomputer login and password.
Yeah, just like in Die Hard 2, when that guy crashed a plane using nothing but his laptop. Because computers can do anything.
Why, just the other day, I hacked into the vending machine database serving this region and caused a Coke machine to EXPLODE.
Someone jammed about six inches of Crazy Stick in your ear and just wiggled that motherfucker all around, didn't they?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 17, 2010 01:13 PM (xGIqT)

687 Here's the hilarious thing... you're trying to put the burden of proof on me to prove something that I am claiming is only *possible*. At the same time, you claim you have *no* burden of proof to explain how all the methane alarms simultaneously failed, and you are *definitively* stating that that *is* what happened and anyone who asks evidence of *that* is a complete loon. The guy who says he *absolutely knows what happened* has no requirement to provide any evidence, while the guy saying it *could* have happened another way has to *prove* it happened that way. Convenient, eh?

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 01:14 PM (9zHDv)

688 "I hacked into the vending machine database serving this region and caused a Coke machine to EXPLODE."
If you seriously think that's analogous to an oil rig computer having an option to"Deactivate Methane Alarms", you are an even bigger idiot than I imagined.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 01:15 PM (9zHDv)

689 I guess if the methane alarms ever, in decades of operation, ever registered a false positive, everyone on the rig just puts up with the alarm continuing to blare for hours, cause no one hought to include a way to turn them off.
Dear God, can you even hear yourself?

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 01:16 PM (9zHDv)

690 C'mon, haXX0r, walk me through it.
Or are you going with the Die Hard 2 scenario - they blew up the rig by computer? How did they cause the gas to leak in the first place?

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 17, 2010 01:26 PM (xGIqT)

691 You know what? Never mind. You're an idiot.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 17, 2010 01:26 PM (xGIqT)

692 "C'mon, haXX0r, walk me through it."
You got it.
*press power button*
login: bpoilrigoperator
password: jeffisafuckingmoron
<Main Menu>
<Alarm Control>
<Silence Methane Alarms>

You're seriously arguing that an oil rig doesn't have any fucking way to turn the fucking alarms off.Wouldn't that have topretty muchfall in the "Basic Operations" part of the manual? You gotta wonder how the hell they could ever perform maintenance or repair or diagnose a false positive on the fucking things if you can't shut them off (even if just to reboot the system). They run even when the rig is shut down! The alarms - they are UNSTOPPABLE! Till the rapture shall they run, because it is *inconceivable* that anyone included a way to turn them off, for any reason.
Because I submit that *oil rig alarms are not impossible to deactivatewith anoil rig computers*, this is exactly equivalent to claiming that you can cause soda machines to explode via hacking.
You are some serious weapon grade crazy yourself, imbecile.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 01:36 PM (9zHDv)

693 Oh, and *not only is it absolute fact*that oil rig computers lack any way to turn oil rig alarms on and off, but it is *also absolute fact* that these same redundant alarms all spontaneously turned *themselves* off without human intervention, cause Big Oil Is Evil, and stuff.
You're closer to refining weapon grade crazy to fissionable form than Iran, man.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 01:45 PM (9zHDv)

694 "How did they cause the gas to leak in the first place?"
Um, *what?* That question doesn't even make sense. They hit methane pockets frequently. It's a regular part of the operation. The difference is, in every othercase in history, the methane alarmsgo off as *soon* as it enters the pipe, they know there's methane coming out of the pipe,they canregulate the drilling/pumping, and they can deal with it. How did you *think* it works?
At about 9:47 p.m., workers all over the rig heard a sudden hiss of methane gas. Methane is often present in the ground in and near reservoirs of crude oil, and managing the threat is a regular part of drilling.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 01:59 PM (9zHDv)

695 I just have one thing to say. Any one who knows anything about offshore rigs and fires/explosionsknows that you don't drench them with water and sink the rig. The MMS and theCoast Guard should have know that. You let them burn until you can find a way to cap the well.Drenching the rig with all that water and sinking the rig is what caused the oil spill. I have to agree with Qwinn, maybe it was sabotage and they had to made sure that the rig ended up a mile under the water so no one would ever know.

Posted by: Fishinnana at June 17, 2010 02:27 PM (MQNAW)

696 Oh, and while you're all gauging my incredible level of craziness and the extreme plausibility of the narrative, can someone explain to me why the power failed over the whole rig *after the methane was coming out of the well, but before it ignited*?

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 03:18 PM (9zHDv)

697 Actually, never mind on that last question, I can think of a couple of plausible explanations for it.
But I still haven't heard anything remotely like a plausible explanation for why every redundant methane sensor below sea level simultaneously failed. Quite frankly, I think that singlefailure alone is more than enough to have caused the *entire* disaster (you can't "manage the threat" of hitting a methane pocket if no one knowsyou hit one until way too freakin' late, duh!), and it is improbable enough as a spontaneous eventto make deliberate sabotage more than reasonably plausible.
Except when dealing with the sort of butthurt angst that's been raging in this thread since the first post, that says *only* simultaneous redundant system failures happening utterly spontaneously and without evidence is the only possible plausible explanation. FFS.

Posted by: Qwinn at June 17, 2010 03:41 PM (9zHDv)

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