Review from Lefty Type Guy: Avatar Is Like the Most Left-Wingiest Big Movie Ever Made
Update: Rightie John "Dirty Harry" Nolte Agrees

Well!

Seems people's suspicions here were spot-on.

The political import of Avatar -- and there's no waving this aspect away because it's right in your face start to finish, and especially in the third act -- is ardently left. It is pro-indigenous native, anti-corporate, anti-imperialist, anti-U.S. Iraq War effort, anti-U.S.-in-Afghanistan (and anti-troop-surge-in-that-country, or strongly against the thinking of President Barack Obama and Gen. Stanley McChrystal), anti-rightie, anti-Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld, etc.

Yes, it's very teenaged adolescent in its super-imaginative wacko visions and exuberant energy levels, but politically it's pure Che Guevara (more the Motorcycle Diaries or Che-in-Cuba version than Che in Bolivia), Naom Chomsky, Hugo Chavez, Howard Zinn, Gore Vidal, Oliver Stone, etc. Cameron is an earth-hugging lefty from way back (the flagrant despise-the-arrogant-rich current in Titanic being but one example) so this should come as no surprise to anyone. I for one am cheered and heartened.

If Sarah Palin sees Avatar and then sits down and actually thinks about what it's saying (which is always a dicey proposition, I admit), she'll hate this movie. Because Avatar hates her and her kind. Some righties will pretend to like it ("great popcorn flick! took my kids!"), but they'd have to be in major denial mode not to recognize that Avatar is much more MSNBC than Fox News. It really spits on the Fox News philosophy/worldview. If Cameron had for some inane reason put a Fox News-type character in the film, he/she would end up with a Na'vi arrow through his/her chest, trust me.

Call it the most flamboyant, costliest, grandest left-liberal super-movie anyone's ever seen -- a political tract that cost Rupert Murdoch God knows how many hundreds of millions to make and yet is totally pro-loincloth, pro-native, despise-the-greedy, hug-the-earth, worship-the-earth, down with the soulless short-end, down with the us-first, masters-of-the-universe thinking behind the Goldman Sachs/Timothy Geithner culture and up with the eternal/spiritual in all cultures and all corners of the globe. The tragedy of the Vietnam War echoes all through this film. Somewhere Ho Chi Minh is smiling.

He also says there's some kind of "reverse 9/11" metaphor in it.

Thanks to Dave @ Garfield Ridge.

Titanic Hypocrite? The Deceiver wants to know the size of James Cameron's carbon footprint.

And No I'm Not Giving Up On This Joke, Why Do You Ask? Nightcrawler of the X-Men just emailed me to say "LIESS! ALL LIESSS! It ist the most wunderbar movie ever made!"

John "Dirty Harry" Nolte: Yeah, That's About Right! Not a fan.

Absent from the big screen for over a decade now, Oscar-winning director James Cameron returns armed with a reported half-billion dollars, a story he’s been desperate to tell for 15 years, and the very latest in cutting-edge visual technology. The result is “Avatar,” a sanctimonious thud of a movie so infested with one-dimensional characters and PC clichés that not a single plot turn – small or large – surprises. I call it the “liberal tell,” where the early and obvious politics of the film gives away the entire story before the second act begins, and “Avatar” might be the sorriest example of this yet. For all the time and money and technology that went into its making, the thing that matters most – character and story – are strictly Afterschool Special.
What a crushing disappointment from one of our most original and imaginative filmmakers.

Set in 2154, “Avatar” is a thinly disguised, heavy-handed and simplistic sci-fi fantasy/allegory critical of America from our founding straight through to the Iraq War.

Nightcrawler just wrote to tell me he's planning on rapier-murdering John Nolte later tonight. Bamf!

Whoops: John Nolte, not Nolan, as I wrote.


Posted by: Ace at 04:30 PM



Comments

1 Yeah, I sort of knew this was what it was when I saw the very very very first trailer.

Posted by: Truman North at December 11, 2009 04:32 PM (e8YaH)

2 So glad I gave up on 99% of the crap slurry being pumped out of the sewer that is Hollywood.


Posted by: CLP at December 11, 2009 04:33 PM (9cq1V)

3 great

Posted by: fartbubble at December 11, 2009 04:34 PM (cBeTr)

4 Reverse 9/11 check..the humans blow up some giant tree that the natives worship .

Posted by: steevy at December 11, 2009 04:34 PM (thQVn)

5 Well. Take that one off of my list to see...not that I've seen very many this year. Kind of a sucky year for movies.


Posted by: Tony at December 11, 2009 04:35 PM (z8Cts)

6 This explains why I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to see it since I saw the first trailer.

Posted by: Xoxotl at December 11, 2009 04:35 PM (ZUkmX)

7 From the trailers, I thought it look liked Dancing With Space Wolves, another piece of liberal celluloid dreck.
At least Avatar won't make you sit through three hours of Kevin Costner.

Posted by: Blogluddite at December 11, 2009 04:35 PM (fDWFP)

8 You know, Rupert Murdoch will be the one laughing all the way to the bank if this movie makes any money. Which it won't, but he took the risk as a CAPITALIST. Yes, your anti-corporate screed was written, financed, produced, and distributed by unrepentant capitalists in the most capitalist industry in America.

Tools.

Posted by: Alex at December 11, 2009 04:36 PM (sAP8F)

9 I think it's been a sucky decade for movies.

Posted by: steevy at December 11, 2009 04:36 PM (thQVn)

10 Dances with smurfs. We know. When isn't Hollywood attacking people who dare disagree with them? When are they not actively insulting and demeaning the majority of the population of this country?

Posted by: Blue Hen at December 11, 2009 04:36 PM (R2fpr)

11
Speaking of that...

What is ABC thinking by only airing 4 episodes of V? Nobody is gonna wanna watch a show that starts and stops and starts and stops every 5 months with just a few episodes.

Posted by: the professor at December 11, 2009 04:36 PM (z37MR)

12 Hollywood is poison. I gave up on Hollywood for my own entertainment needs about four years ago. I still let the kids watch the less-harmful childrens movies, but we always talk about the moral of the stories and important political undercurrents presented.

Posted by: Truman North at December 11, 2009 04:36 PM (e8YaH)

13 ...but that being said, if there were some hot blue bewbs, I may have re-considered.

I'm a simple man with simple desires.

Posted by: Xoxotl at December 11, 2009 04:36 PM (ZUkmX)

14 so much for seeing that, this would explain why its leaving people "Unsatisfied". Main theme is based on lies which go against the grain of the human spirit

Posted by: jp at December 11, 2009 04:36 PM (DFDtC)

15 So glad I gave up on 99% of the crap slurry being pumped out of the sewer that is Hollywood.
With three young kids, we haven't been to the movies in quite a while. Don't miss them a bit.

Posted by: Blogluddite at December 11, 2009 04:37 PM (fDWFP)

16 (the flagrant despise-the-arrogant-rich current in Titanic being but one example)

And the irony of this is lost on Cameron no doubt. Who I'm pretty sure isn't some "working class" director...

Luckily I've no interest in Fergully meets HALO.

Posted by: Rodney at December 11, 2009 04:37 PM (c6mrx)

17 Reverse 9/11 check..the humans blow up some giant tree that the natives worship

Not possible. Fire cannot melt wood....
Google it

Posted by: Blue Hen at December 11, 2009 04:37 PM (R2fpr)

18 People will see in a movie what they want to see in a movie.

If they're a liberal kook, they'll see that it displays liberal kook beliefs.

Posted by: enoxo at December 11, 2009 04:37 PM (p0Ddl)

19 Cost $500 million to make they are sayng.Not sure if that is production cost alone or whole package.

Posted by: steevy at December 11, 2009 04:37 PM (thQVn)

20 Arrrrgh!

Posted by: Movie Pirate at December 11, 2009 04:38 PM (nE6Eu)

21 @11 - It takes 5 months for the brainscrubbing"Re-Education" of the writers to be completed.

Hey, those gulags don't work themselves, ya know.

Posted by: Xoxotl at December 11, 2009 04:38 PM (ZUkmX)

22 The last movie I saw in the theaters was The Dark Knight. With turds like this floating up from the Hollywood cesspool, I may not see another movie again.

Posted by: CT at December 11, 2009 04:38 PM (KV/Mz)

23
This is a Fox production?

In the words of Rush Limbaugh: I hope it fails.

Posted by: the professor at December 11, 2009 04:39 PM (z37MR)

24 For all of you director's and producer's, etc., that feel they need to have a "political message" movie, you don't.

Interesting his need to mention Sarah Palin. Her stature truly scares the crap out of them.

Posted by: mare at December 11, 2009 04:39 PM (X1fsj)

25 Spoiler: I leave it to the community to decide whether there's a huge 9/11 metaphor in Avatar or not, but I felt one (although politically it makes no sense in the context of the film.) Call it a reverse 9/11 image. I'm not talking about the destruction of a man-made super-structure but a natural one. I'll leave it at that and wait for reactions.
"I leave it to the community to decide..."
"I felt one..."
Yeah, he's a lefty alright. He'd find Marxist messages in Atlas Shrugged.

Posted by: Muskwa at December 11, 2009 04:39 PM (2sKy5)

26
Probably never, ever gonna see this movie. What's too bad is that without Spiccoli doing a gawdawful gay/different/protest piece, this is a shoe-in for best picture.

Anyway, hollywood and cameron can go fuck themselves.

Posted by: Dang Straights at December 11, 2009 04:39 PM (Haq+B)

27 @16 Rodney


Luckily I've no interest in Fergully meets HALO.

Oddly, I do. As a video game rather than a movie, though.

Posted by: MikeO at December 11, 2009 04:40 PM (Ce+tv)

28 They had to stop production on V and change the producer when they saw the first few episodes aimed a little close to Obama, no word of a lie. There will be more episodes in the next arc, when they get back to the old hoary chestnut of attacking Bush, like all good humanoids prefer.

Posted by: Truman North at December 11, 2009 04:40 PM (e8YaH)

29 At least we had Aliens, where the message was "send in the Marines to kill them all".

Posted by: EC at December 11, 2009 04:40 PM (iWj1i)

30 Pure Che? So some natives round up other natives and execute them against a wall for not going along with the revolution?

Posted by: Dick Cheney at December 11, 2009 04:41 PM (4pdbX)

31 It was obvious from the first trailer (3 min) that polluted the NFL pre-game show with. Never going to watch.

If the tech is really going to change movies forever, I'll watch one of the "revolutionized" movies down the road that doesn't hate on me or America.

Posted by: Amused Observer at December 11, 2009 04:41 PM (Uy/AI)

32 13
...but that being said, if there were some hot blue bewbs....

Really?? Where??

"I hang out with the Blue Man group. They're my buds."

Yeah, I think that might work.

Posted by: Tiger Woods in Vegas at December 11, 2009 04:42 PM (z8Cts)

33 Wait... so they're saying that white people ruling the galaxy from giant white triangles, running plantations on desert planets, and owning robot slaves is somehow bad?



Luke! We're gonna have company!

Posted by: Han Solo at December 11, 2009 04:42 PM (pD9ab)

34 But other than that how did you like the play Mrs.Lincoln.

Posted by: bulwark at December 11, 2009 04:43 PM (jvrmc)

35 What I question is how Hollywood is still in buisness. Every movie they make loses money (ask them). Since they are not Washington they can't simply crank up the presses.

I suspect this movie will be a true money pit. Hollywood, a bunch of over paid liberal twits who think they are making "art". Hah, piss on them.

Posted by: Vic at December 11, 2009 04:43 PM (CDUiN)

36 I **totally** missed the "despise the arrogant rich" current in "Titanic".

I ** totally ** got the "Billy Zane is a Douche-Bag" current. But somewhere mixed in with the rich guys - excepting the aforementioned Billy Zane - sending the women and children out first, the scene with the likes of John Jacob Astor and Benjamin Guggenheim preparing to die like gentlemen stands out.

But Billy Zane, boy, what a douche.


Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 11, 2009 04:43 PM (ruzrP)

37
the best blue babe ever?

that's easy: Rebecca Romain Lettuce in X-Men

She has a damn near perfect body.

Posted by: the professor at December 11, 2009 04:43 PM (z37MR)

38 Well, at least we have "300"

I bet Lionidas could kick some Na'vi butt

Posted by: tommylotto at December 11, 2009 04:44 PM (oHIHU)

39 WTF is a reverse 9-11 metaphor?
Assholes.
I hope this is a flop on the scale that Titanic was a success.

Posted by: the real joe at December 11, 2009 04:44 PM (rFTt2)

40 Pleassse, gut people... giff it a chance... de creatures... dey are so beautiful...

Posted by: Nightcrawler of the X-Men at December 11, 2009 04:45 PM (jlvw3)

41 Having a leftist political bent pinned to your "entertainment" product is box office poison. It's been proved again and again, but Hollywood never learns.

Posted by: Cicero at December 11, 2009 04:46 PM (QKKT0)

42
Sounds like V for Vendetta meets The Muppets in Space

Posted by: the professor at December 11, 2009 04:47 PM (z37MR)

43 I'd like to see a movie about Spanish colonization in South America,
or Islamic colonization in the Sudan, or one even about the current level of political leadership in Detroit.


Posted by: Jack at December 11, 2009 04:47 PM (bvDV5)

44 Nah, the blest blue babe ever is Smurfette!
Or maybe Zhaan in Farscape.

Posted by: Gargamel at December 11, 2009 04:47 PM (T1boi)

45 It appears to be the more liberal version of "Independence Day"

Posted by: drjohn at December 11, 2009 04:47 PM (HXRkG)

46 I'm shocked.
Shocked!
Just absolutely shocked!!


No wait, what's the opposite of shocked?

Posted by: Z Ryan at December 11, 2009 04:47 PM (cMo6P)

47 Could't we "send in the Marines to kill thm all" now? Figuratively speaking? The Marines being right minded voters? Hollywood has been out of ideas forever and unless Rocky (who did not rely on affirmative action or government parks programs to beat the Russian boxer) comes back and beats a muslim to shit I'll pass.

Posted by: rightzilla at December 11, 2009 04:47 PM (rVJH4)

48 best blue babe is Smurfette!
or maybe Zhaan in Farscape.

Posted by: Gargamel at December 11, 2009 04:48 PM (T1boi)

49 According to the Drudge Report, they just loved it in London. Stands to reason, I guess.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at December 11, 2009 04:48 PM (554T5)

50 thepiratebay.org

Posted by: The Nobel Peace Prize Committee (NPPC) at December 11, 2009 04:48 PM (uLHPW)

51 Papa Cameron Smurf cast a smurfy spell and made me smurfin' post twice.

Posted by: Gargamel at December 11, 2009 04:49 PM (T1boi)

52 The moral of Aliens was "nuke them from orbit". The marines helped rescue Newt, but that's all the good they could do.

Posted by: Zimriel at December 11, 2009 04:49 PM (9Sbz+)

53 Maybe this is why I always end up rooting for the bad guy in movies. I have seen about 50 minutes of that god awful movie Titanic and Billy Zane gets hosed. His ho of a fiance cheats on him and takes naked pictures. I would be pissed too. Hell I rooted for the bad guy in Gladiator. His own father thinks he is a piece of crap and gives the empire away to some General. If he had just laid down and took that he would have been assassinated by someone in the Senate or used as a figurehead by someone trying to take over, and that is not even going into the fact his father passed him over. He even showed balls at the end by even fighting Maximus, he coulda just stabbed him in the chest in the dungeon that's what any smart man would have done. I guess in a sense he was fighting his father in his mind and trying to banish the demons of his past by showing the world he really wasn't a coward.
Oh yeah I ain't seeing this movie in theatres just like I didn't see GI Joe when they Fd it up the squeekhole.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at December 11, 2009 04:50 PM (SqAkN)

54 I **totally** missed the "despise the arrogant rich" current in "Titanic".

Ditto. I saw the douchetardness of Billy Zane, Kate Winslet's boobs, and then some pretty cool CGI which I gather has now been discredited by later dives to the wreck (it reflected the "settled science" of the mid 90s on how the ship broke up).

Posted by: Ian S. at December 11, 2009 04:50 PM (p05LM)

55 If this movie-making technology can bring "Thomas Covenant: Ur-Lord and Unbeliever" to the big screen, then it was worth it.

So long as the ravers are scary, Bannor of the Bloodguard is teh awesome and the chicks in The Land are hot.

.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 11, 2009 04:50 PM (ruzrP)

56 So it'll end up making $250 million domestic and $35 trillion worldwide solely based on it's anti-American theme. Sweet.
There has to be some sort of Six Degrees of Seperation between the film revenues and Al Qaeda's next attack here but I'm not drunk enough to figure it out yet.

Posted by: Alex's Cabin at December 11, 2009 04:50 PM (/5oDV)

57 Pffft. Those Na'vi whores don't got nothing on me. I'm the real deal, Baby.

Posted by: Green Orion Babe at December 11, 2009 04:50 PM (ZUkmX)

58 50
Hell yeah. I use that site often. Make sure you got some good spyware and anti virus software though.
Legal tip of the day:It is not illegal tostream it, only download it.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at December 11, 2009 04:52 PM (SqAkN)

59 Titanic was full of clumsy references to "the class system".

Posted by: Zimriel at December 11, 2009 04:52 PM (9Sbz+)

60
WTF is a reverse 9/11 metaphor

A group of Christians fly a building into a plane load of muslims on 11/9?

Posted by: bulwark at December 11, 2009 04:52 PM (jvrmc)

61 He'd find Marxist messages in Atlas Shrugged.

Hell, Obama Soros uses that book as a how-to manual when it was written as a cautionary tale.

Posted by: the real joe at December 11, 2009 04:53 PM (rFTt2)

62 Yeah, you could smell the stench of lefty fantasy a long way away from this one. Starting with the hype--if it's so damn good, why the need to tell us it'll be the greatest thing ever before anyone sees it?
It's the same old, same old Hollywood "movie blockbuster" formula.
1) Big name star or director
2) Big budget
3) Recycle old idea (old TV show, old movie, whatever)
4) Cut the dialog and character development that made the previous version work.
5) Fill in dialog and character holes with the latest CGI.
6) Insert more CGI just to make sure we've got enough CGI.
Did we get enough CGI?
7) Success!

Posted by: jimmuy at December 11, 2009 04:53 PM (EzcbY)

63 Yeah, but is there any fisting in it????

Posted by: The Fisting Czar at December 11, 2009 04:53 PM (ngD76)

64 "...Avatar hates her and her kind."

Well, fuck you very much. May it be a bomb and Cameron go broke.

Posted by: Shannon at December 11, 2009 04:54 PM (niZOC)

65 Though I will not watch liberal porn, I will gladly download and seed its torrent so others get it for free rather than pay that domestic abuser of females Cameron any proceeds..

Posted by: Ripley at December 11, 2009 04:54 PM (NmEGj)

66 The little lefty sounds like he thinks his worldview is vindicated because some Hollywood propaganda was made with the same viewpoint.

It's news when Hollywood ISN'T left-wing. Sheesh.

Posted by: nickless at December 11, 2009 04:54 PM (MMC8r)

67 The moral of Aliens was "nuke them from orbit".

No, that was Ripley's solution because she knew how dangerous they were and didn't want to consider going in with guns. It was far easier and simpler to nuke the entire atmosphere converter than call in reinforcements.

The real moral of the story is, recognizing how evil and dangerous something is and exterminating it.

Posted by: EC at December 11, 2009 04:54 PM (iWj1i)

68 I am convinced that this movie was conceived two years ago when "Hate Bush" was at its zenith. It takesa minimumof time this long to get everything together. Money being the big thing. It fits into the Leftist mentally of the Military being the bad guys.

Posted by: mystry at December 11, 2009 04:55 PM (kmgIE)

69 So all that, left wing, control developing nations by starving them to death
in order to save the planet shit is pro-indigenous native, anti-corporate and anti-imperialist?
While Gore Inc sets up Global Corporate Government that is the exact opposite
of this guys idea of egalitarian justice?
I observe he is completely delusional and schizoid.

Posted by: Hugh Jasteroid at December 11, 2009 04:56 PM (lD4DZ)

70 Can it possibly suck as bad as "Dances With Wolves"?

Posted by: maddogg at December 11, 2009 04:58 PM (OlN4e)

71 The moral of Aliens was "nuke them from orbit".

not to quibble with the above - but the real moral of Aliens is that a scene where Paul Reiser is kilt-dead is awesome

Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 11, 2009 04:58 PM (ruzrP)

72 EC 67, "nuke them from orbit" is a metaphor for everything you just said. Except for the "orbit" part.

Posted by: Zimriel at December 11, 2009 04:58 PM (9Sbz+)

73 At least Allah lilked it...

Posted by: 7% Sollution at December 11, 2009 04:59 PM (wPRU8)

74 69 So all that, left wing, control developing nations by starving them to deathin order to save the planet shit is pro-indigenous native, anti-corporate and anti-imperialist?
I guess to be truly pure pro-indigenous native you must want them to always stay indigenous natives and strive your very best to keep them that way.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at December 11, 2009 04:59 PM (SqAkN)

75 Posted by: mystry at December 11, 2009 04:55 PM (kmgIE)
I think it was conceived of more than ten years ago but Cameron was waiting for the technology tocatch upso he could make the film. That's a long time for an idea to fester in a libtard's mind.

Posted by: Alex's Cabin at December 11, 2009 04:59 PM (/5oDV)

76 While Gore Inc sets up Global Corporate Government that is the exact oppositeof this guys idea of egalitarian justice?

See how this AGW the UN works. The UN dies without AGW. It needs it to survive. If the UN can use AGW to create its global bureaucracy it completely crushes any attempts by natives to assert their economic rights to develop. It will tie lock THEIR hands and give the keys to rich nations that develop the "green" or "carbon neutral" technologies that the poor nations will acquire with their carbon credits.

Anyone that read John Perkins "Confessions of an Economic Hitmen" has to see that the Carbon Trading market is the World Bank and the IMF as a quasi capitalist program to limit technological achievement to the already developed countries.

Posted by: WTFCI at December 11, 2009 05:01 PM (GtYrq)

77 Mr. Pink is wise. Robin Hood was a dick.

Posted by: Ripley at December 11, 2009 05:01 PM (NmEGj)

78 Aliens had lefty crap in it too. Paul Riser's character was part of those evil corporations that were willing to put outposts near an alien crash landing so they could make a buck once they were able to weaponize an Alien. Carried over into Alien 3 and 4. AT least Predator didn't follow the lefty script in regard to evil corporations. Looks like I'll pass on Avatar if it's as bad as these early reviews.

Posted by: CDR M at December 11, 2009 05:01 PM (cvmTR)

79 Can it possibly suck as bad as "Dances With Wolves"?

Tatanka just called. She has a review.

It Suck Bad.

Posted by: WTFCI at December 11, 2009 05:02 PM (GtYrq)

80 So it should appeal to child-like, non-critical thinking types. Those were the days.

Posted by: The Movie Appreciation Society at December 11, 2009 05:02 PM (JFNQ7)

81 written in the typical leftard style.

And WTF is a "reverse 9/11 metaphor?" Islamofascists hijack skycrapers and fly them into jets? what?

Posted by: pinche migra at December 11, 2009 05:02 PM (E3SK8)

82 >>He even showed balls at the end by even fighting Maximus, he coulda just stabbed him in the chest in the dungeon that's what any smart man would have done.
Yeah but remember he stabbed Maximus in the side or in the leg or something right before the battle.

Posted by: Adrienne at December 11, 2009 05:02 PM (YUwuZ)

83 Titanic was also a left wing movie. The evil rich people against the little people and all of that drivel. Cameron weaves some disparaging commentary about real historical figures into that movie who by most actual accounts were decent people. I thought that movie sucked and I lost all interest in his work after that. He is also a pompous ass of the highest order with a giant ego, very annoying.

Posted by: Ken Royall at December 11, 2009 05:02 PM (9zzk+)

84 Speaking of movies. Most have seen "We Were Soldiers". but have you read the book? None of that girlie shit was in Moore's book at all, and the battle was only half the story.

Posted by: maddogg at December 11, 2009 05:05 PM (OlN4e)

85 I just read the review of Intercourses With Smurfs at Big Hollywood. (Did Ace link it in yesterday's thread? I didn't read it.)

Posted by: andycanuck at December 11, 2009 05:05 PM (2qU2d)

86 I guess to be truly pure pro-indigenous native you must want them to
always stay indigenous natives and strive your very best to keep them
that way.

Yeah, you don't want them all uppity and stuff.
Better to keep them down so you don't have to run into them at the tennis club or on the biking trail what with their nasty, runny nose dark skinned babies.

Posted by: Hugh Jasteroid at December 11, 2009 05:05 PM (lD4DZ)

87 Never saw Titanic, won't be seeing this. Cameron should have stopped with T2. Maybe True Lies.

Posted by: brak at December 11, 2009 05:05 PM (W5NBA)

88 maddogg, I read the book about 7 years before I saw the movie. Very good book.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at December 11, 2009 05:06 PM (WvXvd)

89 Because Avatar hates her and her kind.
Oh noes! Whatever will Sarah do? She's probably never experienced hate from the left before.
Neither has "our kind." Just ask Joe the Plumber.
Me, I don't fund the Hollywood machine anymore.

Posted by: Warden at December 11, 2009 05:06 PM (QoR4a)

90 But are there any Blue Alien Boobies?

Posted by: Not Charles Smelly Hippy Johnson at December 11, 2009 05:07 PM (2VlsA)

91 @65 - Though I will not watch liberal porn

Liberal porn is the best!

Two Progressive Girls, One Truth-To-Power Cup? Sign me up!

Posted by: Xoxotl at December 11, 2009 05:07 PM (ZUkmX)

92 Titanic, while a hit because of the love story between DiCaprio and what's her name, was so far gone from reality as to be laughable. Thank God I never paid to see it. I saw a few minutes on TV one night, here they come down the hall of the sinking ship, wading through NORTH SEA ICEWATER as if nothing special is going on. Um, I don't think so.

Posted by: Def Leppard at December 11, 2009 05:07 PM (hIOnV)

93 I haven't been to a movie in years. Looks like this will not be the one to break the streak. Pity.

Posted by: nevergiveup at December 11, 2009 05:07 PM (UF00K)

94 The real moral of the story is, recognizing how evil and dangerous something is and exterminating it.
by EC

Well spoken.

Posted by: mokimoki at December 11, 2009 05:08 PM (IrV7s)

95 This whole thing has been obvious since the first trailer premiered. This is "Bury My Heart At M'Tagh X'lorgh" or "A Man Called Horse Na'vi".

I'd assert to my fellow Morons, however, that this alone is not a reason to avoid the film. The reason to avoid the movie is, based on what I've seen from the trailers and from a leaked script, is that it sucks. You could transplant it whole and breathing into a 30 minute Saturday cartoon. There is no character who is not a caricature; no dialogue that is not leaden; no plot device that is not as frayed and time-worn as your grand-dad's sweater. Nothing happens that is not completely expected; no surprises are revealed; no characters change or grow in any way. Avatar might be worth seeing purely as spectacle -- the CGI, by all accounts is indeed dazzling -- but this can safely wait for the Blu-Ray release down the road. (And I'll probably skip the movie and just watch the "making of" feature.)

Dances With Wolves, ridiculous as it is, is still fun to watch; and there's a lot to like about the Rousseau-ian efforts like The Emerald Forest or even Clan of the Cave Bear (plus you get a naked Darryl Hannah, so there's that). Even Aliens was very anti-corporate (remember the character Paul Reiser played?). Sci Fi movies (apart from Star Wars) tend to be a very leftish genre, focusing as they do on futurism, utopias, social engineering, and so on. And remember that Cameron has always had this mawkish, weepy side to him (just watch The Abyss again sometime*).

I agree with others that Cameron would have done better to adapt Scalzi's Old Man's War than this stupid shit he came up with.

*And no, the "Special Edition" doesn't redeem it. It's still a stupid movie.

Posted by: Monty at December 11, 2009 05:09 PM (4Pleu)

96 Well, according to Global Warming, to many "natives" are being born and we need now "population control".

Does someone else notice that "anti-rich" libs are actually the very rich themselves?
Highly paid actors, politicians, movie and TV producers, MSM, musicians, athletes, etc. I have no problems if you get paid well, but some of this crying is non-sense when the get so money they can buy small countries!

Posted by: hous bin pharteen at December 11, 2009 05:09 PM (pU4D7)

97 The "steal from the rich" Robin Hood might be a dick. The real story where he steals from the government and gives it back to the taxpayers, not so much.

Posted by: right at December 11, 2009 05:10 PM (EquV1)

98 Even on cable I have to skip over half the movies like "Rendition" etc. I mean how many times can I watch "Patton"?

Posted by: nevergiveup at December 11, 2009 05:10 PM (UF00K)

99 James Cameron, what a fucking waste.

Is it asking too much to have Hollyweird people that just keep their leftist drivel out of their movies. Damn...

As for the question as to why Hollyweird can stay afloat, I have two theories. First, Hollyweird gets plenty of US money from their kids movies to bankroll their leftist shit-bombs and second, the overseas market. I think Avatar is made primarily for the non-US market. I heard a Chinese woman say today that the Chinese are going to love this movie.

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at December 11, 2009 05:12 PM (otlXg)

100 What's new? 90% of what Hollywood produces is not just left-leaning, but bat-shit crazy marxist in its sentiment.
Accept it; and understand that fantasies (like Avatar) are particularly appropriate vehicles for conveying left tard ideals. Doesn't work in the real world so let them build their utopiason celluloid.

Posted by: Alamo at December 11, 2009 05:12 PM (CYypA)

101 a lot of sci fi is a mirror..you see yourself, or what you want to see, in it.

uber-lefty sees star trek and sees a utopian society where there is no money and no corporations only the end-all-be-all UFP that rules everything.

uber-lefty sees "aliens" and sees an uncaring corporation sending military tools to advance it's bottom line, and who cares how many people have to die the the process.

everyone else:

cool movie. damn! did you see that go BOOM!?? KILL THE F'N BAD GUYS!

message? what message? did you see those pulse rifles/smart guns/photon torpedoes? those were awesome! WANT WANT WANT!

Posted by: allen at December 11, 2009 05:12 PM (bs/3K)

102 Dave in Texas
Yes, it was. So was" With the Old Breed", if you haven't read it. Gritty is the word. I'd link to Amazon but the link service seems to be down.

Posted by: maddogg at December 11, 2009 05:12 PM (OlN4e)

103 I'll just catch it on Blue Ray.

Posted by: The Chewbacca Defense at December 11, 2009 05:13 PM (YMZjg)

104 If Sarah Palin sees Avatar and then sits down and actually thinks about
what it's saying (which is always a dicey proposition, I admit)...

This is really getting ridiculous. The denunciations of Mrs. Palin are getting more obligatory and ritualized every day. The left just ought to end every article or blog post they write with the sentence "and Sarah Palin is dumb" no matter the subject, just like the old Roman who ended every speech with "Carthago delenda est."

They really are afraid of her, aren't they?

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 11, 2009 05:13 PM (tClfg)

105 This movie will not have many conservatives go see it, so, good luck making your money back Fox. You're going to need it.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at December 11, 2009 05:14 PM (mGSN1)

106 They should have got Paul Verhoeven to direct this movie. Given the way he utterly reversed Heinlein's message in Starship Troopers, Verhoeven could have turned Avatar into a movie worth watching.

Posted by: DelD at December 11, 2009 05:14 PM (rC+/c)

107 The review in comment #85 is really worth reading. I was laughing throughout.

Posted by: brak at December 11, 2009 05:14 PM (W5NBA)

108 Sarah scares the tofu poop out of the left. They speak of the devil, as it were.

Posted by: maddogg at December 11, 2009 05:14 PM (OlN4e)

109 I haven't been to a movie in years. Looks like this will not be the one to break the streak. Pity.

Same here. Aside from actively shunning Hollywood and it's message, I can't take the audiences in theaters anymore.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at December 11, 2009 05:16 PM (554T5)

110 md, I'll check that one out, thanks.

Posted by: Dave in Texas at December 11, 2009 05:16 PM (WvXvd)

111 It just goes without saying that if you're rightwing you must necessarily exist in a permanent cultural hell.

At least you have Toby Keith, Pantera, disaster films, and thee Book of Revelations.

Posted by: Ronald Reagan, B actor at December 11, 2009 05:17 PM (/gil1)

112 Did I mention Sarah Palin is really really dumb? Really.

Posted by: Hip, Edgy Movie Reviewer with a Website that Nobody Reads at December 11, 2009 05:17 PM (QKKT0)

113 Well now, I must put this on my to-do-list. Smoke a fatty and view the flick.................


OsamaHusseinIslamObama 2012'
(the terrorist-Uighur-ACORN-media choice)
-It's never too early to campaign-

Posted by: Barry Soetoro (D-King OF The World!!) at December 11, 2009 05:18 PM (GExwl)

114 andycanuck,

Thanks, I didn't see that, just linked and quoted.

Posted by: ace at December 11, 2009 05:18 PM (jlvw3)

115 My God, its full of italics.

Posted by: Dave Bowman at December 11, 2009 05:19 PM (QKKT0)

116 There's an old classic sci-fi story called "Call Me Joe" (Poul Anderson?) that I think Cameron is ripping off for Avatar. The plot is that the consciousness of a crippled guy is transplanted into a creature to explore the extreme conditions on Jupiter (this was back when they thought it had a solid surface) and he ends up not wanting to leave his bad-ass new body. Avatar may have a few more frills, but that's essentially it.

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 11, 2009 05:19 PM (tClfg)

117 Suddenly I feel like italics!

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 11, 2009 05:20 PM (tClfg)

118 All of a sudden I have special emphasis.

Posted by: right at December 11, 2009 05:20 PM (EquV1)

119 This is the T-shirt to wear, if you go.
http://tinyurl.com/y9rwzya
No Aliens fan should be without one.

Posted by: lotocoti at December 11, 2009 05:20 PM (lUYDH)

120 they wont feel the pain in their lifetime, and they are totally cut off from reality.
untill it gets really shitty in the world as these closet, white guilt marxists want it to be, then we will be subjected to an endless stream of this shit and we will take it and not say a fecking word.
unless right thinking people become like the stinking lefty protesting scum and start making a big fuss on the streets then our way of life is screwed.

Posted by: Hans muslim Handlebar at December 11, 2009 05:20 PM (XvgTv)

121 Well....that certainly explains the "Oscar buzz" around this steaming pile of Leftist dung. First rule of trying to win an Oscar is spit on everyone and everything that made your success possible, and don't forget a liberal (heh) dose of "Bush is/was Hitler". Simply mix together, and voila, instant Oscar. Look for the ratings for this years broadcast to make Olbermanns ratings look like the first moon landing.....

Posted by: zipity at December 11, 2009 05:21 PM (3mzJK)

122 Looks like a tag didn't get closed. Refreshing the browser fixed it.

Posted by: Soap MacTavish at December 11, 2009 05:21 PM (554T5)

123 well, that sucks. Thanks for the heads up. DIAF, Avatar.

Posted by: joeindc44 at December 11, 2009 05:21 PM (QxSug)

124 @111 - At least you have Toby Keith, Pantera, disaster films, and thee Book of Revelations.

Yeah, because The Day After Tomorrow is pure hardcore right-wing propaganda, baby! If you look close enough, you can see Sarah Palin riding in on the top of the tidal wave that destroyed NYC.

Posted by: Xoxotl at December 11, 2009 05:21 PM (ZUkmX)

125 Given the way he utterly reversed Heinlein's message in Starship
Troopers, Verhoeven could have turned Avatar into a movie worth
watching.

I would like to rip out Verhoeven's intestines and slowly strangle him with them for what he did to Heinlein.

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 11, 2009 05:21 PM (tClfg)

126 Paul Riser's character was part of those evil corporations that were
willing to put outposts near an alien crash landing so they could make
a buck once they were able to weaponize an Alien.

Did you ever think how stupid that idea is? The Aliens aren't anything if they're out in the open or facing a prepared military force that doesn't have its hands tied by sloppy screenwriting.

The Aliens wouldn't be particularly difficult for modern, equipped military to deal with. Why would they be a better weapon against future military?

'Aliens' is just as stupid as anything else Cameron's done.

Posted by: nickless at December 11, 2009 05:22 PM (MMC8r)

127 It's erg, again. Did dum-dum kick you off your spot at the glory hole again?

Posted by: Zimriel at December 11, 2009 05:23 PM (9Sbz+)

128 Fuck Jim Cameron and fuck this latte sipping pussy movie critic. OregonMuse is dead on; everything has to have a gratuitous cheap shot at Sarah Palin, no matter how out of context or downright wrong. Sarah Palin is a nature hater? Really, twat Manhattanite movie critic who would cry if he was ever out of cell phone range? Sarah Palin hunts and fishes in ALASKA, for fuck's sake. One does not choose to go out in arctic weather if one doesn't love nature and large amounts of alcohol aren't involved. This asshole writer probably considers staying at a Holiday Inn "roughing it".
And I can't wait not to see this movie. I hope it bombs utterly and Cameron gets the bends on one of his wreck dives or whatever the hell else he's been doing for the last 13 years.

Posted by: UGAdawg at December 11, 2009 05:23 PM (O4miG)

129 I don't intend to see it. The trailer is all I need to know that it will annoy me on a "been done to death" level and will offend me on too many levels to count. And my kids are all grown up so I don't have to take them to see this expensive, predictable piece of drek.

Posted by: katya at December 11, 2009 05:24 PM (NWMzn)

130 OT - Ace, I just had the HEUR/HTML.malware alert again on your site. I don't know whick ad tried to load it, but the space under your Paypal logo was blank.

Posted by: Have Blue at December 11, 2009 05:24 PM (mV+es)

131 The product placement on Fox TV has been fairly appalling too. On Bones last week they had the geeky lab assistants waiting in line for days to see Avatar, only to have a hot chick show up and offer hot monkey sex if they'd let her jump the line and go in with them. Seriously.

Posted by: Ian S. at December 11, 2009 05:24 PM (p05LM)

132 Sounds pretty ignorable...so I will.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at December 11, 2009 05:24 PM (XPDI+)

133 There's an old classic sci-fi story called "Call Me Joe" (Poul Anderson?) that I think Cameron is ripping off for Avatar.

I can think of at least twenty books right off the top of my head that have pretty much the same plot as Avatar. (Starting with Scalzi's Old Man's War. There was also a really interesting novel some years back called Spares that had the same kind of idea.) The themes of body-switching and going-native are some of the oldest tropes in dramatic fiction -- they even pre-date the novel form. (A Midsummer Night's Dream by Shakespeare, for example).

One of the main themes of Tolkien's Lord of the Rings books was how technology was killing nature ("He has a mind of metal and wheels," Treebeard says of Saruman), and the "adventure novels" of people like James Fenimore Cooper and Jack London were basically Rousseauian nature romances.

Like I said: strictly going by the plot, this movie has been done a thousand times.

Posted by: Monty at December 11, 2009 05:25 PM (4Pleu)

134
shouldn't we be discussing how we're gonna make up the 25% loss in funny from 2008 to 2009?


Posted by: the professor at December 11, 2009 05:25 PM (5vvtw)

135 Cartoons should be funny.

Posted by: right at December 11, 2009 05:27 PM (EquV1)

136 I guess I picked a bad week to stop choking people.

Posted by: Dick Cheney at December 11, 2009 05:28 PM (mGSN1)

137 111
It just goes without saying that if you're rightwing you must necessarily exist in a permanent cultural hell.At least you have Toby Keith, Pantera, disaster films, and thee Book of Revelations.

Unlike those high-minded left-winger flicks that have a variety of bad guys, such as the Big Oil Company, the Big Pharma Company, the Big Weapons Company...wait a minute!

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at December 11, 2009 05:28 PM (otlXg)

138 Ace,

What's really surprising is that this movie was already made several years ago for much less money. A few years ago, there was a movie called "Battle For Terra" that exactly mirrors Avatar, so closely in plot, I have to wonder who came up with the idea first.

1. Encroaching humans find a planet to pillage because Earth is all used up.

2. Said planet just happens to be populated with cute, cuddly aliens far below the humans in terms of tech, but still able to put up a fight through numbers.

3. Human protagonist originally part of the invasion force, joins up with native aliens and thwarts the humans' plans for planetary conquest.

4. Profit?!?!

How original is Avatar? Not very.

Google "Battle For Terra".

Posted by: EC at December 11, 2009 05:28 PM (iWj1i)

139 the only thing i got from that article...well the comments to be exact is just another reinforcement of how much i hate "intellectual" liberals.
and by hate i mean drive my suv through their face hate.

Posted by: evil libertarian at December 11, 2009 05:29 PM (KxYmA)

140 It just goes without saying that if you're right leftwing you must necessarily exist in a permanent cultural hell. invent fictional realities you can control to vindicate your worldview.

FIFY, erg.

Posted by: nickless at December 11, 2009 05:29 PM (MMC8r)

141 45
It appears to be the more liberal version of "Independence Day"

Posted by: drjohn at December 11, 2009 04:47 PM

Yeah, except where the humans are a bunch of dicks and the aliens kick our ass. Otherwise, just a liberal version of Independence Day, which was just a liberal version of earlier aliens vs. human films.

Posted by: Ripley at December 11, 2009 05:29 PM (NmEGj)

142 This brings back memories of the ending in The Abyss where the aliens do that ridiculous bit about humans being so mean to each other and we should all play nice blah blah blah.....

Lawdy that was the stupidest and preachiest ending to a movie i've ever seen.

Posted by: koopy at December 11, 2009 05:29 PM (XllG0)

143 I just got that anti-virus crap again. Had to run the task manager to get rid of it.

Posted by: maddogg at December 11, 2009 05:30 PM (OlN4e)

144 My 5 ye\r old kid wanted to see the trailer. About 1 minute in, I was able to confidently tell the child, "They're trying to trick you into thinking people are bad."

It was blatant in the trailer, and animated CGI furries do nothing for me. It's clearly a <skip> even on video.

Posted by: moron # 26141677 at December 11, 2009 05:30 PM (p1s9n)

145 say what you will about cameron but that scene in the abyss where ed harris watches Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio drown and then drags her back to the base ship is one of the most heart pumping moments ever put on screen.

Posted by: Hans muslim Handlebar at December 11, 2009 05:30 PM (XvgTv)

146
Well, as long they don't paint their faces white and yell, "You can take our lives, but you can never take our COMMUNISM!"

Posted by: William Wallace at December 11, 2009 05:31 PM (5vvtw)

147 "If Sarah Palin sees Avatar and then sits down and actually thinks about
what it's saying (which is always a dicey proposition, I admit)"

Ah, reality -challenged , snotty condescension.
A leftard trademark.
Ask for it by name. Accept no substitutes.

Posted by: Dr Carlo Lombardi at December 11, 2009 05:31 PM (qpGrc)

148 I want him to make another Piranha movie

Posted by: fartbubble at December 11, 2009 05:31 PM (cBeTr)

149 This movie is dumb and stupid, but the special effects are spectacular, so it will win 35 Oscars, just like Titanic, another craptacular Cameron movie whose only virtue was how gee-whiz wow it looked.

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 11, 2009 05:31 PM (tClfg)

150 BumperStickerist I like the cut of your jibe and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
The Unbeliever...God that takes me back to my teenage years. I fell in love with that series. +10

Posted by: Bosk at December 11, 2009 05:32 PM (pUO5u)

151 I think it's been a sucky decade for movies.
I dunno, I've been enjoying the movies profusely up until this year. With science fiction, fantasy and superheroes finally getting the quality they deserve, I was pretty regular at the theater with my kids. But I've been to the theater twice in the last 6 months. The only thing I have to look forward to this winter is Sherlock Holmes.
They better not screw that up.

Posted by: katya at December 11, 2009 05:34 PM (NWMzn)

152 As I repeatedly said, people, It's just Fern Gulley with VIOLENCE.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 11, 2009 05:35 PM (ou+hP)

153 This brings back memories of the ending in The Abyss where the aliens do that ridiculous bit about humans being so mean to each other and we should all play nice blah blah blah.....
More and more I've decided I wish Michael Biehn's psychotic SEAL had killed every motherfucker in that movie by the second act. Finis.

Posted by: UGAdawg at December 11, 2009 05:36 PM (O4miG)

154 My reaction at the trailer:

"Ooooh, humans with neat military hardware like VTOL fighters and mecha. Cool!"

(watch loincloth-wearing spear-using blue aliens trashing high-tech mecha.)

"Yeah. Pass."

Posted by: Xoxotl at December 11, 2009 05:36 PM (ZUkmX)

155 At least you have Toby Keith, Pantera, disaster films, and thee Book of Revelations.

By the way, erg, you ignorant fuck, it's "The Book of Revelation", singular, not "The Book of Revelations." No 's' at the end, there. If you're going to make fun of us illiterate rubes, your joke would work better if it didn't reveal your own ignorant provincialism.

Posted by: OregonMuse at December 11, 2009 05:37 PM (tClfg)

156 Cuz Che Gueverra had such a sterling record of getting indigenous people to fight by his side, right? Because they didn't help turn him in to CIA operative cuz they were tied of him trying to start wars in their own backyard, right?

Posted by: Ken at December 11, 2009 05:38 PM (qx+Vq)

157 Most science fiction tends to lean left, since it is far too complicated to try and fashion whole new worlds with dynamic interactions. It is far simpler to create some plain, static structure with simple rules and no thoughts of friction or growth or any of the other aspects of reality. The worlds of fiction tend to be static, naturally, which almost forces them to be leftist. Add in actual leftist proclivities of many of those creating these worlds and you have a perfect storm.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 11, 2009 05:38 PM (A46hP)

158 9 I think it's been a sucky decade for movies.

Wrong Century for the Media...there's your problem.

Posted by: garrett at December 11, 2009 05:38 PM (iBBnY)

159 Serious plot question here... if the humans are so Evil and Right-Wing, why didn't they just nuke the site from orbit? You know, just to be sure?

Posted by: Xoxotl at December 11, 2009 05:40 PM (ZUkmX)

160 They used to call this the hammer, i been quoting that one for years now.

Posted by: Hans muslim Handlebar at December 11, 2009 05:41 PM (XvgTv)

161 Like all movies I've seen in the last five or so years I'll be waiting for the rental.

Posted by: Bosk at December 11, 2009 05:41 PM (pUO5u)

162 it's "The Book of Revelation",...your own ignorant provincialism.
Be fair. When quoted, you quote it as Revelation(s) _ : __ . No?
Also, he might have been mislead by Maiden.

Posted by: garrett at December 11, 2009 05:43 PM (iBBnY)

163 152
As I repeatedly said, people, It's just Fern Gulley with VIOLENCE.

And Fern Gully sucked balls. I saw that in my impressionable youth and thought it was overly preachy.

The only way Avatar would be any good is if by the second act, it was discovered that the Na'vi (or whatever they're called) are the bastard children of Zeus and that his secret redoubt is on Pandora. Then Kratos and the Titans could take the war to Pandora and smash it flat.

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at December 11, 2009 05:43 PM (otlXg)

164 Really? I opted for a less-literal interpretation. To me the movie symbolized the American power elites on the left and right coasts trying to ram their politicized agendas down the throats of those "flyover country" inhabitants. The people in Alabama or Montana have been peacefully coexisting with nature when "Bang" in come the big government types to press for federal control of health care, local schools, and power companies.

Posted by: Jamal at December 11, 2009 05:44 PM (spQWW)

165 say what you will about cameron but that scene in the abyss where ed
harris watches Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio drown and then drags her
back to the base ship is one of the most heart pumping moments ever put
on screen.

Yeah, The Abyss is actually pretty good until that ridiculous ending. Aliens telling people to be nice to each other may be a big revelation if you're five years old, but not so much for anybody else.

More and more I've decided I wish Michael Biehn's psychotic SEAL had
killed every motherfucker in that movie by the second act. Finis.

Same here, i always thought he was the best character in that movie, everybody else is just a stereotype.

Posted by: koopy at December 11, 2009 05:44 PM (XllG0)

166 Jeffrey Wells: Hollywood Asswipe.

Hey, Jeff! Gary Glitter just called. He wants his DNA back.

Posted by: Jim Treacher at December 11, 2009 05:44 PM (GrDz5)

167 Set in 2154, “Avatar” is a thinly disguised, heavy-handed and
simplistic sci-fi fantasy/allegory critical of America from our
founding straight through to the Iraq War.

It doesn't end with Barry's glorious ascension to the throne? $500 million budget is a lot to make back at the box office. Hopefully this turd is a massive bomb.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at December 11, 2009 05:44 PM (saB45)

168 153
Michael Biehn pretty much stole that movie. Pretty fearsome (for a little guy[seal pup]).

Posted by: Tommy Gunn at December 11, 2009 05:45 PM (rQTdM)

169 Serious plot question here... if the humans are so Evil and Right-Wing,
why didn't they just nuke the site from orbit? You know, just to be
sure?

I'm betting good money that there's something valuable on the planet that the evil RDA Corporation (humans) doesn't want to risk damaging with nukes, or else the movie would've been over in 5 minutes.

Posted by: EC at December 11, 2009 05:45 PM (iWj1i)

170 The moral of Aliens was "nuke them from orbit". The marines helped rescue Newt, but that's all the good they could do.
But after half their numbers were massacred the first time, they went back after the aliens, well knowing they would probably die a horrible death.

Posted by: katya at December 11, 2009 05:45 PM (NWMzn)

171 I have lost all interest in new Hollywood for all the same reasons that have been stated over and over here. Everything I get from netflix is from pre 1975. So many good old movies that are so much better than all of the garbage that's out now.

Posted by: Roadking at December 11, 2009 05:47 PM (6mswz)

172 I'm betting if you eat enough brownies it's still awesome (we libertarians really need to develop a Brownie Rating system).
Meanwhile... when is the next Frank Miller movie? <i>300</i> was fucking awesome, a gory paean to Wertern culture and military prowess.
Remember, support the people in Hollywood who get it.

Posted by: TallDave at December 11, 2009 05:47 PM (+3aaV)

173 Pantera is right-wing? I knew I liked those guys.

Posted by: Jim Treacher at December 11, 2009 05:48 PM (GrDz5)

174 The movie was just nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize.

Posted by: Jim at December 11, 2009 05:50 PM (8yIhu)

175 Michael Biehn's psychotic SEAL
Abyss would have been great if this character were replaced by a PyschoticCircus Seal who would only do ball tricks for Bacon, down on his luck, and turning tricks out behind thelocal Osco Drug for Valu -Rite money...
NO, come to think of it - Abyss Sucked.
Nothing could have saved that turd from sinking and stinking. Not even more fiber.

Posted by: garrett at December 11, 2009 05:50 PM (iBBnY)

176 As I repeatedly said, people, It's just Fern Gulley with VIOLENCE.And Fern Gully sucked balls. I saw that in my impressionable youth and thought it was overly preachy.
My youngest loved Fern Gully. I detested it from the very beginning.Stupid men. Wise women. Evil white. Good native. Destructive industry. Healing nature.
Did I leave anything out?

Posted by: katya at December 11, 2009 05:50 PM (NWMzn)

177 still wish Fox had let Cameron and Ridley Scott make their Alien movie

Posted by: fartbubble at December 11, 2009 05:50 PM (cBeTr)

178 Michael Biehn pretty much stole that movie. Pretty fearsome (for a little guy[seal pup]).
That was back when he was young and handsome and usually played heros, too, so it was interesting to watch this bad-ass, alpha dog type guy slowly come apart. He's one of those guys that can bring genuine menace to a role, like his Johnny Ringo in Tombstone.

Posted by: UGAdawg at December 11, 2009 05:51 PM (O4miG)

179 173
Pantera is right-wing? I knew I liked those guys.

If you're ever in Dallas, make sure to go to The Clubhouse. It's the all nude strip club owned by the guys in Pantera.

Posted by: koopy at December 11, 2009 05:51 PM (XllG0)

180 173
Pantera is right-wing? I knew I liked those guys.

Wasn't Pantera the base for the music in the early Doom games?

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at December 11, 2009 05:52 PM (otlXg)

181 Meanwhile... when is the next Frank Miller movie?

The Spirit was a huge bomb. Apparently he's working on another Sin City movie, though.

Posted by: Jim Treacher at December 11, 2009 05:52 PM (GrDz5)

182 55
If this movie-making technology can bring "Thomas Covenant: Ur-Lord and Unbeliever" to the big screen, then it was worth it.

So long as the ravers are scary, Bannor of the Bloodguard is teh awesome and the chicks in The Land are hot.

.


Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 11, 2009 04:50 PM (ruzrP)

Except, of course, that the Hollywood commutards would cast Sean Penn as Covenant, make Lord Foul look and sound like Dick Cheney, and make Bannor a conflicted transsexual. They'll find a way to fuck anything up...

Posted by: Chainsaw Chimp at December 11, 2009 05:53 PM (j6H6o)

183 If you're ever in Dallas, make sure to go to The Clubhouse. It's the all nude strip club owned by the guys in Pantera.

If you're in L.A. , stop by the 'Rug Doctor' and hang with us!

Posted by: The Ladies of L-7 at December 11, 2009 05:53 PM (iBBnY)

184 some messages in movies are pretty well hidden, others smack you in the face.
example, spielbergs munich, after half an hour i had a voice in my head telling me an eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.

Posted by: Hans muslim Handlebar at December 11, 2009 05:54 PM (XvgTv)

185 Hey, Dawg, absolutely. Biehn was a menace in that. The bug-eyed tension and all. Powers Boothe had his hands full reining Ringo.

Posted by: Tommy Gunn at December 11, 2009 05:55 PM (rQTdM)

186 Because Avatar hates her and her kind.

But let me guess, if I hate it back, then I'm the one who is the simplistic idiot.

Posted by: alexthechick at December 11, 2009 05:55 PM (nwTNa)

187 What does a vegan zombie crave?Grains, graaains!

/crickets

Posted by: Ron Mexico at December 11, 2009 05:56 PM (0QJjg)

188 what's funny is give the Na'Vi a couple of generations, and they'll be just as advanced and just as evil as the millitary jerks they fight in this movie. PROGRESS! **snicker** indigenous tribes don't stay that way forever. I just love how lefties hold up that ideal, but you can't stop the REAL progress, industrialization, civilization, people don't stay dumb forever.

Posted by: vai2112 at December 11, 2009 05:56 PM (pkOAj)

189 180 173 Pantera is right-wing? I knew I liked those guys.Wasn't Pantera the base for the music in the early Doom games?
They play Pantera at proms. -No?
In the End there will be only SLAYER!!!

Posted by: garrett at December 11, 2009 05:57 PM (iBBnY)

190 @169 EC - I'm betting good money that there's something valuable on the planet
that the evil RDA Corporation (humans) doesn't want to risk damaging
with nukes, or else the movie would've been over in 5 minutes.

So, apparently napalm, poison gas, biological agents, waves of droid soldiers to soften them up, etc. were right out then, leaving them with no choice but to go down with awesome high-tech wargear just to get their asses handed to them by some spear-chucking natives and a traitorous human who's got the worse case of Blue Pussy-Whipping I've seen.

Riiiight.

Posted by: Xoxotl at December 11, 2009 05:57 PM (ZUkmX)

191 the worse case of Blue Pussy-Whipping I've seen.
I think I'm gonna have to quote you on that one!!

Posted by: Tommy Gunn at December 11, 2009 05:59 PM (rQTdM)

192 The bug-eyed tension and all. Powers Boothe had his hands full reining Ringo.
Yeah, it was just those fleeting moments when you saw in his eyes that he was a stone cold psychopath.
He and Doc Holliday had an intersting symbiosis in that movie; both were well-educated men who would have been successful doing anything, but chose to be violent gunfighters because of self loathing.

Posted by: UGAdawg at December 11, 2009 06:00 PM (O4miG)

193 EDIT: Total Misfire. I thought someone was slamming the Abyss for the psychotic SEAL plot element; I see now I was wrongly assuming that based on a stray reference. Sorry for the misfire lecture.

....

The abyss wasn't great, but Michael Biehn was suffering from nitrogen psychosis, or whatever the movie called it. Also, the other SEALs realized he was off his trolley and rebelled against him.

Sometimes I think some are doing the opposite of what liberals do, like if the James Bond movie Live and Let Die has black villains, they scream "ARE YOU SAYING ALL BLACK PEOPLE ARE VILLAINOUS?!"

And, no, they're not, duh.

And I don't think you can or should impose your own categorical ban like "a SEAL can never turn crazy, or be the villain."

I confess it's unlikely a frog-man SEAL would have this nitrogen psychosis problem -- wouldn't he have shown signs before and been reassigned? -- but I don't think you can say it's impossible, or SOOOO unlikely it demolishes the movie.

The movie wasn't great, but not because of the SEAL. Hey, you need SOME villain in it. The aliens were themselves good (and offscreen for almost the whole movie) so that really only leaves another human being on the platform to serve as a villain.

Posted by: ace at December 11, 2009 06:01 PM (jlvw3)

194 If this movie-making technology can bring "Thomas Covenant: Ur-Lord and Unbeliever" to the big screen, then it was worth it.

So long as the ravers are scary, Bannor of the Bloodguard is teh awesome and the chicks in The Land are hot.

.


Posted by: BumperStickerist at December 11, 2009 04:50 PM (ruzrP)
I can't see how you can possibly make a Covenant movie at all. You had to be inside his head to even try and understand why it was important for him to not believe in the world he was seeing - and it was a hard sell even then.

From outside, as part of the Land, it will be impossible to sell, even a little.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 11, 2009 06:02 PM (z1N6a)

195 If this movie-making technology can bring "Thomas Covenant: Ur-Lord and Unbeliever" to the big screen, then it was worth it.

Good Lord, nothing is worth that. I'd rather watch the Rosie O'Donnel/Margaret Cho sex tape.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 11, 2009 06:03 PM (n2wxa)

196 Whoops, bad lecture! I see no one was really objecting to the psychotic SEAL aspect of the story.

Sorry, I saw a stray reference to "psychotic seal" and did some bad assuming, making an ass of u and me but really just me.

Sorry again. Stupid lecturing mode, Professor of Drama now.

Posted by: ace at December 11, 2009 06:03 PM (jlvw3)

197 the worse case of Blue Pussy-Whipping I've seen.

Once you go blue, you never come to.

Posted by: Jim Treacher at December 11, 2009 06:03 PM (GrDz5)

198 >>Posted by: Jim Treacher at December 11, 2009 06:03 PM (GrDz5)

Treacher!!!! *fangirl sigh*

Posted by: vai2112 at December 11, 2009 06:05 PM (pkOAj)

199 157
Most science fiction tends to lean left, since it is far too
complicated to try and fashion whole new worlds with dynamic
interactions. It is far simpler to create some plain, static structure
with simple rules and no thoughts of friction or growth or any of the
other aspects of reality. The worlds of fiction tend to be static,
naturally, which almost forces them to be leftist. Add in actual
leftist proclivities of many of those creating these worlds and you
have a perfect storm.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at December 11, 2009 05:38 PM (A46hP


Wasn't it Poul Anderson that wrote all of those books about Capitalist Extraordinaire Nicholas Van Rijn and the POLESOTECHNIC LEAGUE ?

If Nicholas couldn't make a profit, it couldn't be done. The crew of the "Muddlin through" had other places to go.


If you want to read Capitalist science fiction, Try some Poul Anderson.

Posted by: Diogenes at December 11, 2009 06:05 PM (ou+hP)

200 I wish they would make more villainous seals. Then it would be okay to club them.

Posted by: Xoxotl at December 11, 2009 06:06 PM (ZUkmX)

201
I would like to rip out Verhoeven's intestines and slowly strangle him with them for what he did to Heinlein.

Nah. I'd do that for pretty much any of his films -- Robocop alone, for that matter. What he deserves for "Doogie Howser in Space" is worse. Much, much worse.


Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 11, 2009 06:07 PM (n2wxa)

202
Arrgh. RoboCop was Teh Awesome.

And I know, because I did see a good making-of on it, that he intended the movie to be a complete left-wing propaganda fest.

I don't care! I loved it. Loved loved loved it.

I'll buy that for a dollar. Seriously, I will.


Posted by: ace at December 11, 2009 06:09 PM (jlvw3)

203 If there is any faught with abyss then it's the crap ending, up to that point it's one of the most edge of the seat, pure entertainment, movies made.
in my drunken opinion.

Posted by: Hans muslim Handlebar at December 11, 2009 06:09 PM (XvgTv)

204 Yeah but does it have an Evil Mastermind that is dashing, intelligent, and physically powerful?

Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 11, 2009 06:09 PM (nE6Eu)

205 um, let's get technical. Is it leftist? I mean, are the smurf communals? Do they not believe in private property? Or is it a private company that does bad things or is George W. Bush and America?

It's kinda silly to reverse 9-11 the RDA guys killing a tree(?) and then have the RDA guys invade? You know, that doesn't make sense. You can't be both the victim of 9-11 and invaded like Iraq, right?

Basically, there's the allegory that the humans are the bad guys because the story wouldn't make much sense if the smurfs became human to invade us? Oh wait, that's been done too in BSG, where they tried to shoehorn humans=suicide bombers=good because then america=cyclon=bad would be satisfied. Again, they had humans be the victim of the 9-11 and the victim of the Iraq mythos?

Posted by: joeindc44 at December 11, 2009 06:09 PM (QxSug)

206 fault, oh give it up.

Posted by: Hans muslim Handlebar at December 11, 2009 06:10 PM (XvgTv)

207 Thanks, I didn't see that, just linked and quoted.
You're welcome, Ace.

Posted by: andycanuck at December 11, 2009 06:11 PM (2qU2d)

208 >>>Yeah but does it have an Evil Mastermind that is dashing, intelligent, and physically powerful?

You make fun, but yeah, the Abyss and RoboCop both do, whichever you meant.

In RoboCop it's a divided thing, with the mastermind and his oddjob physical brute enforcer (ED-209).

Posted by: ace at December 11, 2009 06:11 PM (jlvw3)

209 The thing is, Ace, with dystopia as lefty propaganda is that you can fictionalize that America becomes like totally bad but the real world dystopias are owned by the left. In the end, it's just vituperative.

Posted by: joeindc44 at December 11, 2009 06:12 PM (QxSug)

210 Treacher!!!! *fangirl sigh*

pix plz lol

Posted by: Jim Treacher at December 11, 2009 06:12 PM (GrDz5)

211 Whatever happened to the Robocop remake? Darren Aronofsky was supposed to direct I remember. Proving that once again, everything will be remade.

Posted by: brak at December 11, 2009 06:13 PM (W5NBA)

212 Did this movie already come out? Or is this just from critic screenings?

Posted by: Z Ryan at December 11, 2009 06:14 PM (cMo6P)

213 Wonder why hollywood hasent remade zulu.

Posted by: Hans muslim Handlebar at December 11, 2009 06:15 PM (XvgTv)

214 In the end, these movies are only as good as their catch-phrases.

Terminator: "I'll be back."
Terminator 2: "Hasta la vista, Baby."
Aliens: (tie) "I say we take off and nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure." / "Game over, man! Game over!"
Total Recall: "Get your ass to Mars!"
Robocop: "I'll buy that for a dollar!"
... etc.

So, what's Avatar got going for it?

Posted by: Xoxotl at December 11, 2009 06:17 PM (ZUkmX)

215
Arrgh. RoboCop was Teh Awesome.

Teh Awesome Crap. I saw that movie in the theater when it came out. I was 17 -- a 17-year-old SF-loving guy from middle America. I should have loved it, right? I hated it. It was clear the movie was made by a repressed sadist who thought mangling people was a suitable replacement for plot.

Nothing Verhoeven's done since then has challenged that conclusion.



Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 11, 2009 06:18 PM (n2wxa)

216 The critters are 10 feet tall? How did they avoid getting "ewokized" like Chewbakka (Wookies)in Starwars?
Wouldn't it be better (liberally) if they were about 5'2" ? ? Like say... Thai Lady-boys?

Posted by: 5Cats at December 11, 2009 06:18 PM (O5yP8)

217 >>>The thing is, Ace, with dystopia as lefty propaganda is that you can fictionalize that America becomes like totally bad but the real world dystopias are owned by the left. In the end, it's just vituperative.

True, but for me, I loves me some well-done dystopia. Very little well-done dystopia tho.

I have mentioned this before, but "Equlibrium," with Christian Bale, is a great dystopian sci-fi action revenge fantasy, and guess what? It's RIGHTY RIGHTY WING baby. Lefty reviewers kind of caught on to that and were slamming it.

I listened to the commentary -- cool guys behind it -- and while they were pretending they were not coming at things from the right, they let a few things slip out that sort of ID'd them as righties-in-hiding.

Like they were talking about these cool futuristic guns they'd gotten for the movie, and one mentioned "Oh we saw this one at the Vegas gun show," and the other guy goes, "OTHER people saw them there, right wing nuts, We would never go there."

And the other guys "Oh no, definitely, only some gun-nut would be there, it definitely wasn't us."

Like that kind of thing.

But really I didn't notice the politics too much except for the basic premise, which caused me to raise an eyebrow and say "Oh my, no, they are going there aren't they?"

Posted by: ace at December 11, 2009 06:19 PM (jlvw3)

218 Whoops, bad lecture! I see no one was really objecting to the psychotic SEAL aspect of the story.
Quite the opposite; it was really the only way of bringing any kind of conflict in that movie since Cameron decided to make the aliens all wet and helpful and shit, and having that skinny dude with the rat go crazy wouldn't have generated much tension. Lt. Coffey was the baddest dude down there, and to have him slowly lose his shit made the situation tense.
Plus, that was a magnificent mustache.

Posted by: UGAdawg at December 11, 2009 06:20 PM (O4miG)

219 I have a large collection of dvds, all handpicked for their eye-candy factor. Eye candy is good cause you can watch it over and over again. Even the worst Star Wars (you pick) was visually extraordinary. So, I'll see Avatar for that reason alone.

Posted by: Tommy Gunn at December 11, 2009 06:20 PM (rQTdM)

220
I have mentioned this before, but "Equlibrium," with Christian Bale, is
a great dystopian sci-fi action revenge fantasy, and guess what? It's
RIGHTY RIGHTY WING baby. Lefty reviewers kind of caught on to that and
were slamming it.
Yeah, that was a better film than I expected.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 11, 2009 06:20 PM (n2wxa)

221
Whatever happened to the Robocop remake? Darren
Aronofsky was supposed to direct I remember. Proving that once again,
everything will be remade.

Posted by: brak at December 11, 2009 06:13 PM (W5NBA)





What chaps my ass is, why remake perfection? John Carpenters The Thing, Alien, your just pissing in the wind if you go there. Plenty of other movies out there to be made if these folks would just take a gander at the sc-fi section at their local Borders

Ridley Scott is doing "The Forever War", which should be awesome. However, supposedly he's writing the script or producing the remake of Alien or something, but not directing.

Wtf ?

Posted by: Blazer at December 11, 2009 06:20 PM (+FzLa)

222 Did I say great? Well, I think it's sort of great. Other people think it's great. But other people I respect don't think much of it. It's sort of cult favorite, a love it or be meh on it thing.

I love it.

Posted by: ace at December 11, 2009 06:20 PM (jlvw3)

223 It looks like the Downfall parody was spot on then.

http://tinyurl.com/nolcyq

Posted by: Tarak at December 11, 2009 06:21 PM (mZxeL)

224 So, what's Avatar got going for it?

Posted by: Xoxotl

This... this is.... SPA... uh I mean... our land.

Posted by: Z Ryan at December 11, 2009 06:21 PM (cMo6P)

225 I wish they would make a movie where Aliens show up or even better, Americans from the future, and beat the shit out of the global warming freaks for being stupid and slowing down our progress.

Posted by: CDR M at December 11, 2009 06:21 PM (cvmTR)

226 Ridley Scott is doing an Alien prequel.

Posted by: CDR M at December 11, 2009 06:22 PM (cvmTR)

227 The instances in the trailer of talking about how awesome and cool everything is reminds me of a scene in the King Kong remake:

/see dinosaurs for the first time
I'm thinking, wow, that's really fake looking.
Character: No one is going to think this is fake.

Posted by: Z Ryan at December 11, 2009 06:23 PM (cMo6P)

228 see also Brave New World. And of course, Atlas Shrugged. realistic lefty dystopias.

As for righty in hiding, wasn't Milius compensated for Red Dawn in part with Desert Eagles.

But, consider Watchmen's dated vision. Oh, I hope Reagan got over that broadside. Oh wait, the last 30 years were pretty good, all things considered.

Posted by: joeindc44 at December 11, 2009 06:23 PM (QxSug)

229 Ridley Scott is doing "The Forever War", which should be awesome.
Really? He's a busy guy; I read somewhere he was doing Blood Meridian, which I just finished reading, and thought it was maybe the most unflinchingly brutal book I've ever read.

Posted by: UGAdawg at December 11, 2009 06:24 PM (O4miG)

230 YOU SHOULD SEE THE LOOKS ON YOUR FACES

Posted by: Z Ryan at December 11, 2009 06:24 PM (cMo6P)

231 Wasn't it Poul Anderson that wrote all of those books about Capitalist Extraordinaire Nicholas Van Rijn and the POLESOTECHNIC LEAGUE ?

If Nicholas couldn't make a profit, it couldn't be done. The crew of the "Muddlin through" had other places to go.

If you want to read Capitalist science fiction, Try some Poul Anderson.

---------------
And in "The Man Who Counts" its even the capitalist guy who gets the princess at the end over the hero-guy.

H.Beam Piper is another good 'right' SF Writer. Keith Laumer and his Retief stories skewers political correctness before the term had been invented.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 11, 2009 06:24 PM (z1N6a)

232 @225 - Americans from the future, and beat the shit out of the global warming freaks for being stupid and slowing down our progress.

They took our jobs!

Posted by: Xoxotl at December 11, 2009 06:25 PM (ZUkmX)

233 BumperStickerist I like the cut of your jibe

Dude. He's checking out your jib

Posted by: Blue Hen at December 11, 2009 06:25 PM (1O93r)

234
Teh Awesome Crap. I saw that movie in the theater
when it came out. I was 17 -- a 17-year-old SF-loving guy from middle
America. I should have loved it, right? I hated it. It was clear the
movie was made by a repressed sadist who thought mangling people was a
suitable replacement for plot.Nothing Verhoeven's done since then has challenged that conclusion.




Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 11, 2009 06:18 PM (n2wxa)




I loved it, especially at 16 when it first came out. Believe it or not Robo Cop originally got an X-Rating for violence by the MPPA and Verhoeven had to edit it down to get an R. hard to believe it could have gotten much more violent.

Never seen any of the edited footage, has anyone else?

Posted by: Blazer at December 11, 2009 06:27 PM (+FzLa)

235 In the end, these movies are only as good as their catch-phrases.

Avatar: "Come with me if you want to spend the rest of your life puking up blue hairballs."

Posted by: Jim Treacher at December 11, 2009 06:27 PM (GrDz5)

236 Robocop was kind of sick, from the hand getting blown off to the toxic sludge guy getting shattered by the car...

But still. Good movie.

Posted by: joeindc44 at December 11, 2009 06:28 PM (QxSug)

237 Avatar: "Come with me if you want to spend the rest of your life puking up blue hairballs."
"Or taking a dump beside a tree and wiping with a damp space rabbit."

Posted by: UGAdawg at December 11, 2009 06:31 PM (O4miG)

238 "Come with me if you want to spend the rest of your life puking up blue hairballs."

Fortunately, I don't have that particular problem.

Posted by: Blue Hen at December 11, 2009 06:32 PM (1O93r)

239 You know what this movie needs?

Penetration.

Posted by: Z Ryan at December 11, 2009 06:33 PM (cMo6P)

240 Equilibrium was okay....the gunkata stuff was cool, if rather videogamey. But when Bale finds the Mona Lisa, and IDs it as authentic, even though the prop is painted on canvas? I kind of fell out of the film at that point.

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at December 11, 2009 06:35 PM (l1Wlr)

241 Re: Abyss

Man I fucking hate the people that made that movie.
They did not even need to have the evil military industrial complex in that movie. But nooo...... just had to add your petulant little whine to the script. Just for that I have to ding it like 5 stars out of ten. Turned what could have been an awesome movie into crap.

Posted by: Rickshaw Jack at December 11, 2009 06:36 PM (nE6Eu)

242 Folks, SF is not intrinsically left-wing. It's just that the leftist "literary" types automatically stigmatize anything that doesn't toe the line.

Heinlein, Niven, Pournelle, Drake, Rosenberg, Moon -- hell, most of the Baen stable! They may not be rock-ribbed religious conservatives, or even Republicans, but they're sure-as-hell more on our side of the Locke/Rosseau split than the other!

Hell, Jonah Goldberg linked to an editorial today that sounds like part of Niven's set up for the Gil the ARM stories -- a call for a world-wide one-child policy!

Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 11, 2009 06:37 PM (n2wxa)

243 >>>Never seen any of the edited footage, has anyone else?

I think recent DVDs include a bit of it. The big thing was that ED-209 really turned that corporate guy into hamburger, shooting him for like a full minute and a half, which got trimmed down (and STILL seemed excessive) But that's now been restored, a bit, I think.

The thing is, they said in this making-of that the extreme gore actually didn't work, it produced a comical effect, the way people laugh at grisly deaths in a Jason Vorhees movie. And when they cut it down, it actually became more flinch-inducing, because it was no longer being presented as gratuituous fan-service comic-gore.

So it might be the case that you are seeing, effectively, the "goriest" version of the movie, if by "goriest" you mean having the maximum impact.

The gory version might just be a bit over the top and silly.

I know that's the kind of crap people say to defend their movie, but to me, it sounds like the truth.

Look at the violence in The Dark Knight, for example. Much of the gore is implied, and it's very effective for that. If the camera dwelled on it and really gave you gore money-shots, it might easily become cartoonish and comical rather than horrific.

Posted by: ace at December 11, 2009 06:37 PM (jlvw3)

244
Ridley Scott is doing "The Forever War", which should be awesome.
Really? He's a busy guy; I read somewhere he was doing Blood Meridian, which I just finished reading, and thought it was maybe the most unflinchingly brutal book I've ever read.

Posted by: UGAdawg at December 11, 2009 06:24 PM (O4miG)

I saw a big write up about a few months but can't remember where. He said wanted to do this movie right after Alien but didn't know how to approach it at the time due to its very large scope being its a trilogy and hollywood wasn't exactly thrilled about directorial flights of fancy costing tens of millions right after Heavens Gate and wanted to play it safe. At any rate at imdb, they have it as "in development" on his page.

Posted by: Blazer at December 11, 2009 06:37 PM (+FzLa)

245 Ridley Scott is doing "The Forever War", which should be awesome.

Ugh. Hated that book. Haldeman had humanity give up; that was his "response" to Heinlein. Sorry, but that's crap; the human race is worth fighting for, no matter our warts and sins.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 11, 2009 06:39 PM (n2wxa)

246 by the way, if you search on youtube, you can find the full restored hamburger-pulping of the corporate lackey by ED-209. I"ve seen it there.

Posted by: ace at December 11, 2009 06:40 PM (jlvw3)

247 No real surprise. Cameron's movies have been very, very ideologically driven since "Aliens." With the possible slight exception of "True Lies" but I haven't seen that in a while.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at December 11, 2009 06:40 PM (eNxMU)

248 Soylent Blue is Na’vi!

Posted by: detective thorn at December 11, 2009 06:41 PM (2qU2d)

249 that is weird. True Lies was really sort of right-wing. Or at least it definitely wasn't left-wing. Not a drop.

Posted by: ace at December 11, 2009 06:42 PM (jlvw3)

250 @239 - You know what this movie needs?Penetration.

Done and done. Everybody who sees this movie is gonna get fucked hard.

Posted by: James Cameron (now with extra blue furriness) at December 11, 2009 06:43 PM (qgWLT)

251
Ugh. Hated that book. Haldeman had humanity give up;
that was his "response" to Heinlein. Sorry, but that's crap; the human
race is worth fighting for, no matter our warts and sins.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at December 11, 2009 06:39 PM (n2wxa)



Ironic since, Heinlein himself said it was his favorite sci-fi story.

Posted by: Blazer at December 11, 2009 06:43 PM (+FzLa)

252 Anybody else here read "When Heaven Fell" by William Barton?

Posted by: Xoxotl at December 11, 2009 06:45 PM (qgWLT)

253 Want non-lefty sci-fi? Read Johnny Ringo, David Weber, or Eric Flint.
Johnny Ringo especially has absolutely no respect for leftist ideology.

Posted by: Mark at December 11, 2009 06:49 PM (0nwFA)

254 I saw Robocop when I was about 10. One of the first R rated movies I ever saw. Holy crap was that violent. I loved it. What was funny is that they made toys from the ultra-violent movie. My parents even got me a few of them, despite probably regretting let me watch it in the first place.

Posted by: brak at December 11, 2009 06:49 PM (W5NBA)

255 So, the movie is

"pro-indigenous native, anti-corporate, anti-imperialist, anti-U.S. Iraq
War effort, anti-U.S.-in-Afghanistan (and
anti-troop-surge-in-that-country, or strongly against the thinking of
President Barack Obama and Gen. Stanley McChrystal), anti-rightie,
anti-Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld, etc."

Such intellectual light weight stuff. Uh, maybe it's an allegory for the USSR invading Afghanistan? You can try to cram all this hate into one movie but it fails as a allegory.

You can't have the good guy, bad guy plate so widely imbalanced without it loosing all sense.

So, "we" 9-11 these fuckers and invade them? There's no provocation, no larger struggle, just a need to colonize? What's that an allegory of? It's weak. And therefore it, at best, is just an insult, vituperation. It's not a lesson and it's not relevant. In the end, it's a dancing with smurfs, soldier going native story. You need a heavy, you need a savage eden. But you can't do it all.

So, what you have an anti-Bush where he does the 9-11 and invades a peaceful stone age society without any provocation, threat, diplomacy, or whatever? So, then it's not Bush. It's not even a caricature. It's worthless.

Posted by: joeindc44 at December 11, 2009 06:50 PM (QxSug)

256 True Lies actually had Islamic villians. I remember the uproar from the Muslim community at the time. I remember one article said Hollywood was just trying to find a replacement for Soviets as the go-to bad guy (you know, other than the evil corporation).

Posted by: brak at December 11, 2009 06:52 PM (W5NBA)

257 Give the Na'Vi enough generations and they would have opened their own casino where the humans can go and gamble. The government will have a travel tax there and back on top of taxing any winnings.

Problem solved.

Posted by: Dave C at December 11, 2009 06:53 PM (qmecx)

258 True Lies was really sort of right-wing. Or at least it definitely wasn't left-wing.

But that was hundreds of millions of dollars ago for Cameron. The richer leftists get, the angrier and more guilty they feel. Avatar is a form of atonement.

Just saw the Spielberg remake of War of the Worlds on TV the other night. One of the worst films ever made, and it tanked horrendously at the box office. The human element was entirely missing from the movie, something audiences clearly discerned. Avatar can easily share the same fate, based on the awful trailers I've seen.

By the way, over at Hot Air, a lot of the commenters seem deeply upset that anyone would willingly avoid seeing this film based on the political message. "Come on, people!" they're writing. "It's just a movie!" What's that all about? Crowd following? Lemmingism? Why would anyone care what other people are doing in regard to a film? Does it take away from their enjoyment of the film, knowing that others are going to skip it?

I sure hope we come to our senses soon and start thinking like individuals again...

Posted by: Hypogean at December 11, 2009 06:53 PM (cVJwC)

259 Dances with Wolves meets Aliens...right?

Posted by: Joe at December 11, 2009 06:54 PM (P/q7X)

260 From Nolte's review

Visually “Avatar” doesn’t break any new ground.

I suspected as much. I didn't see how the vanilla CGI in the trailers could possibly be magically enhanced by the big screen or 3-D gimmickry.

Posted by: Waterhouse at December 11, 2009 06:54 PM (j/c1m)

261 Visually “Avatar” doesn’t break any new ground.

I think that Star Wars Ep. 3 pretty much did it all, visually.

Posted by: joeindc44 at December 11, 2009 07:00 PM (QxSug)

262 Don't hate on me but I'll be there opening day. Fuck the plot, the movie looks amazing. Too bad I quit weed, this one would be perfect.

Posted by: Max Power at December 11, 2009 07:01 PM (q177U)

263 Hating Avatar is racist. Somehow.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 11, 2009 07:03 PM (P33XN)

264 101
a lot of sci fi is a mirror..you see yourself, or what you want to see,
in it.
uber-lefty sees star trek and sees a utopian society where there is no
money and no corporations only the end-all-be-all UFP that rules
everything.
uber-lefty sees "aliens" and sees an uncaring corporation sending
military tools to advance it's bottom line, and who cares how many
people have to die the the process.
everyone else:
cool movie. damn! did you see that go BOOM!?? KILL THE F'N BAD GUYS!
message? what message? did you see those pulse rifles/smart guns/photon
torpedoes? those were awesome! WANT WANT WANT!


P: DING! And he gentleman wins the little lady a Kewpie doll!

Posted by: Percopius at December 11, 2009 07:05 PM (V0nbk)

265 I think that Star Wars Ep. 3 pretty much did it all, visually.

Well, Hovering R2-D2 Kung-Fu Fighting Bot made me puke 3 different ways, if that's what you mean by "did it all".

Posted by: Waterhouse at December 11, 2009 07:05 PM (j/c1m)

266 #50 I get your drift. We should say "screw them" and just steal the movie through a bittorrent client. Why? WHY? Why would I want to watch this, EVEN FOR FREE? If, somehow, I could be paid CASH MONEY to watch this, I would still say "screw you, I'm not watchnig it!"

Stolen and free marxist/leftist propaganda crap is still marxist/leftist propaganda crap.

I look forward to the day when the movie theaters of America are, like Scottish castles, dark, lifeless husks, with tumbleweeds blowing up the aisles.

"See that, kiddo? That big old ugly abandoned building? Americans used to go inside that place, of their own free will, and pay real money to get brainwashed by their Communist programmers!"
"No way, dad."
"Srsly! The people of this nation were that stupid! They purchased tickets to their own brainwashing!"
"Wow. That's like, crazy, right?"

Posted by: Taqiyyotomist at December 11, 2009 07:07 PM (ltfED)

267 Ace, that really was a typo. I meant "watching".
/

Posted by: Taqiyyotomist at December 11, 2009 07:09 PM (ltfED)

268 I liked Equilibrium myself. From the look of the movie, I kept expecting Neo to show up.........and get his ass kicked bigtime.

Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at December 11, 2009 07:10 PM (aC0uO)

269 #255 So, "we" 9-11 these fuckers and invade them? There's no provocation,
no larger struggle, just a need to colonize? What's that an allegory
of? It's weak. And therefore it, at best, is just an insult,
vituperation. It's not a lesson and it's not relevant. In the end,
it's a dancing with smurfs, soldier going native story. You need a
heavy, you need a savage eden. But you can't do it all.

Like all liberal crap, its a Vietnam allegory. That's all the anti Iraq war was, just Vietnam and College Bolshevism come back again, no matter how badly they fit. The Liberals can't even look at the side they like and feel sympathy. It is just hate for our side. It is all they know.

Science Fiction was rife with this crap in the 70s, before the Mil-SF reaction set in.

Posted by: Oldcat at December 11, 2009 07:12 PM (z1N6a)

270 I probably won't see Avatar.
That in no way is a reflection on Sigourney Weaver, though. She's pretty awesome, IMO.

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at December 11, 2009 07:12 PM (P33XN)

271 I think that Star Wars Ep. 3 pretty much did it all, visually.

Is that why I wanted to poke out my eyes at the end?

Me, I'm tired of movies that are just aping video games. I'll take real people and optical photography over CGI.

Posted by: nickless at December 11, 2009 07:25 PM (MMC8r)

272 95You could transplant it whole and breathing into a 30 minute Saturday cartoon.
Posted by: Monty at December 11, 2009 05:09 PM (4Pleu)


OMG Monty, you just hit on exactly how they're going to recoup their costs on this thing. Excellent observation.

Posted by: angryoldfatman at December 11, 2009 07:28 PM (ZZg4j)

273 Re: Star Wars. E.3.
Not a defense of the goddam movie or anything, just saying, you had mega-star fighter fleet actions, fully rendered 3D characters, land scapes, star scapes. Yoda spinning like a top.
What is Avatar going to do that Lucas hasn't already done...oh right, he bump mapped the Smurf's feet or anti-aliased the trees.

Posted by: joeindc44 at December 11, 2009 07:30 PM (QxSug)

274 Uh, yeah.. About any right leaning messages 'hidden' in True Lies.

I made that mistake once. It won't be happening again.


Posted by: James Cameron at December 11, 2009 07:31 PM (qmecx)

275 Me, I'm tired of movies that are just aping video games. I'll take real people and optical photography over CGI.
I'm with ya. I thought the action in Casino Royale and The Dark Knight were more visually interesting than anything I'm liable to see in this effects laden piece of shit.

Posted by: UGAdawg at December 11, 2009 07:37 PM (O4miG)

276 Thank God for DVDs. I love to watch the images on the glowing tube thingy, but if I couldn't sift thro 75+ years of output, there'd be nothing to see. As it is, I end up watching the same movies old TV shows over over. At least, I think so. I tend to be drunk enough at the end of a show not to remember very well.

Ant re. SF, Jack Vance rules. Others are good - there's no diminishing any other author's talent - but Vance has been hanging in there since the eaqrly days, he's still at it. That's all I got.

Posted by: Croaker at December 11, 2009 07:37 PM (HKqGa)

277 Me, I'm tired of movies that are just aping video games. I'll take real people and optical photography over CGI.

That reminds me that a lot of the obviously over the top stunts from Die Hard 4 were done in real life...just like the semi-truck flip in dark knight. So unreal, yet real, people assumed they were CGI.

Posted by: joeindc44 at December 11, 2009 07:39 PM (QxSug)

278 #242 Rob Crawford

You're right, there are a few shining examples. Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series, especially the Chainfire trilogy, describe Islam perhaps even more perfectly than did Tolkein. Goodkind, in this day and age, could be a bit more free with the gore and violence, so that might be why his villains more closely mirror Islam. Hollywood has a problem recognizing, and thus depicting, pure evil nowadays, apparantly. Most of these folks wouldn't know pure evil if they saw it from the bottom of a mass grave. They'd just blame "teabaggers" for making the peaceful Muslims/communists/national socialists do this to them.

I've read truckloads of SF, played even more truckloads of SF-themed videogames. It is 90% leftist propaganda. I can ignore it sometimes, and have fun with the story, characters, and cool tech, (or cool magic, depending on the flavor of your SF), but mostly it is quite heavy-handed, rather like reading a sermon.

Robin Hobb, Soldier Son Trilogy, also a freakin' great read, with no added propaganda. I would buy the hardcover set.

Posted by: Taqiyyotomist at December 11, 2009 07:40 PM (ltfED)

279 You're right, there are a few shining examples. Terry Goodkind's Sword of Truth series, especially the Chainfire
trilogy, describe Islam perhaps even more perfectly than did Tolkein.
Goodkind, in this day and age, could be a bit more free with the gore
and violence, so that might be why his villains more closely mirror
Islam.

Posted by: Taqiyyotomist


Slightly OT.. Have you read Robert Jordan's series, 'The Wheel of Time'?

I read somewhere it's similair to the Sword of Truth series..

Posted by: Dave C at December 11, 2009 07:47 PM (qmecx)

280 Look sci fi may be lefty, only in the sense that intellectualism is the window dressing of totalitarianism...or to put it another way, totalitarianism is the opiate of the intellectual.

People who think they're smarter than everyone else have a need to tell people how to act. "It would all work out so much better if I could make people act the way I see as being rational."

So, yeah, forcing play time on everyone and ending private property would be utopic, etc. and fodder for SF. The author gets to show off how smrt he is.

Posted by: joeindc44 at December 11, 2009 07:54 PM (QxSug)

281 Uhhh what the Hell? I gather the Na'Vi are hunter/gatherer types in this movie?

SARAH PALIN IS A HUNTER!!!

She is closer to the Na'Vi than any of you big city dwelling, latte sipping, lefty douchebags.

Please, become "closer to the earth", roll around in some shit and die of pestilence.

Posted by: Codec717 at December 11, 2009 07:57 PM (DyuqI)

282 Those Big Hollywood types really need to start making ass-kicking kill the fucking terrorist movies instead of just bitching about the libtard ones.


Posted by: Iblis at December 11, 2009 08:01 PM (UQCPr)

283 @278 - I've read truckloads of SF, played even more truckloads of SF-themed videogames. It is 90% leftist propaganda.

You just pretty much described anything from Piers Anthony.

Posted by: Xoxotl at December 11, 2009 08:02 PM (8Phc8)

284 Terry Goodkind is a follower of Ayn Rand. The best book in that series was The Faith Of The Fallen in which he excoriates the leaches of society that expect to live all the workers.

Someone mentioned Eric Flint earlier. He is really a liberal, particularly in the area of labor. His book are OK though.

Robert Jordan was good for the first 4 or 5 books but he allowed too many sub-plots and characters. That series just got out of hand.

John Ringo is great if you don't mind one of his series which borders on pure pornography. Also if you don't mind that it appears he is never going to close any of the series and he just leaves them hanging (e.g. Council Wars)

Posted by: Vic at December 11, 2009 08:16 PM (CDUiN)

285 It is 90% leftist propaganda.

Not really, there are enough conservative writers out there that you can avoid the lefties.

Posted by: Vic at December 11, 2009 08:18 PM (CDUiN)

286 Gawd, Starship Troopers 1. Or as I called it 1,000 Ways to Die Stupidly. Only 'redeeming' feature was Herr OberstFuhrer Doogie Howser. Or lets talk about another sucky Kevin Costner movie - The Postman.There was no mule in the book and that mawkish ending wasn't either. Cyborg subplot gone also.
As for Avatar, one question. I was flipping through an art of Avatar book at BarnesNobles last night. I know its knit-picky but it bothers me since it violates consistency. All of the major fauna of the Na'vi homeworld are hexipedal but the Na'vi are quadrapedal. Why? Probably plot-driven evolution to make the blues more identifiable as people. Thus Cameron and his screenwriters sacrifice something real science-fiction writers strive to keep, coherence,to make a cheap point to make the world more alien.
And for those who want to read up on Poul Anderson and his protagonist Van Rijn, then Baen is offeringall of Van Rijn's storiesfor download. For a nominal fee, so support the capitalist system!

Posted by: Anna Puma at December 11, 2009 08:18 PM (gPKRg)

287 The big tip-off that Avatar was going to be lefty propaganda should have been when the media, and reviewers, all began going ga-ga over it, before it even came out. Usually, the media elite despise science fiction, and will roundly pan it, even before they see it. Here, however, they were claiming Avatar was the greatest thing since sliced Tribbles! That they were this approving could only have meant that they approved of its message, 100%.

(In my opinion, Starship Troopers is one of the worst science fiction movies ever made, not least because it mucks up Heinlein's classic novel.)

Posted by: Rhinestone Suderman at December 11, 2009 08:26 PM (TafJB)

288 Thanks for the tip on Goodkind, I'll look him up!

Posted by: Rhinestone Suderman at December 11, 2009 08:27 PM (TafJB)

289 It's not SF, but buck up, little campers. The Mitch Rapp movie should start filming next year.


My balls are gonna have callouses from all the dipping they'll be doing in that movie.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at December 11, 2009 08:39 PM (J0kCB)

290 Hmmmm.

I have no interest in Dances with Smurfs.

Posted by: memomachine at December 11, 2009 08:39 PM (/+tPT)

291 I saw the whole movie in the 5-minute preview before "The Blind Side." No reason to spend another $25 bucks.

Posted by: David Axelrod's Combover at December 11, 2009 08:39 PM (1SOOm)

292 Cameron snapped with True Lies. He was going through a messy divorce and once he saw the French original he had to be a remake to get the "collapsing relationship" bile out of his mouth. Plenty of "I am the alpha male, bitch" in that film.
And the "Mid-Eastern" bad guys in that one are caricatures who are given gag scenes like having their video-cam battery run out while they are filming their manifesto/demands for Western TV.

Posted by: Flubber at December 11, 2009 08:49 PM (P9y3i)

293 "Equilibrium" -- VERY cool flick. Beats the shit out of "The Matrix" (which overshadowed it at the time of its release.) Kind of modern a take on "Fahrenheit 451," in a way. And Christian Bale is miles above Keanu Reeves as an actor, that's for sure. Plus, Sean Bean in a supporting role always helps.

Posted by: Vile Roman at December 11, 2009 08:53 PM (sOpAl)

294 The whole nature-loving, non-technological, pacifist-until-pushed-too-far indigenous aliens vs. the evil technological, warmongering, conquest-driven human types has sucked ever since the Ewoks fought the Empire. Just once, I want to see a movie where the Ewok types get abso-fucking-lutely slaughtered (in a Henry V "If not, why, in a moment look to see

The blind and bloody soldier with foul hand

Defile the locks of your shrill-shrieking daughters;

Your fathers taken by the silver beards,

And their most reverend heads dash'd to the walls,

Your naked infants spitted upon pikes,

Whiles the mad mothers with their howls confused

Do break the clouds" sense) for three hours of genocide and utterly futile resistance.

[Ideally, the movie should end with stormtroopers joking about all the carnage as they hose Ewok-guts off the bottom of the AT-ATs feet]

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at December 11, 2009 08:57 PM (vupGF)

295 As I said here, "Last Samurai in Outer Space." A serious waste.

Posted by: cbullitt at December 11, 2009 09:04 PM (/8roE)

296 Blue tang? I'd hit it.

Posted by: angryoldfatman at December 11, 2009 09:08 PM (ZZg4j)

297 Should have had a Capt. Kirk sockpuppet on the last comment. But Kirk's right, ya know.

Posted by: angryoldfatman at December 11, 2009 09:09 PM (ZZg4j)

298 I confess it's unlikely a frog-man SEAL would have this nitrogen psychosis problem -- wouldn't he have shown signs before and been reassigned? -- but I don't think you can say it's impossible, or SOOOO unlikely it demolishes the movie.

Nitrogen narcosis is a real thing, and you get it because breathable gases have a narcotic effect when they're in high enough concentrations. Think of it this way - when you're breathing in air that's been compressed ten times smaller than usual, each breath draws in ten times as much nitrogen. So this is something real divers have to watch out for, and it's why deep dive air mixtures contain lots of helium. He wouldn't have been reassigned because it doesn't happen until after the dive starts.

That said, it doesn't make you psychotic. The effect is about the same as drinking. People die from it because nothing you do at 300 meters has a big margin for error.

Posted by: Ace's liver at December 11, 2009 09:12 PM (XIXhw)

299 This is not news to me. Literally the moment I saw the preview, I said to myself: "Not gonna see it. It's leftist tripe."

Think about it:

Military - Bad
Humans (mostly white men) - Bad
"Natives" - Good
"Exploiting" resources - Bad
Betraying your own people for "social justice" - Good
Capitalism - Bad
War - Bad
"Savages" with different colored skin - Good

This is nothing more than a one-sided left-wing "history" of the United States, with a bunch of CGI thrown in. Think a Howard Zinn book with giant Smurfs.

Posted by: RJ at December 11, 2009 09:15 PM (ADbI4)

300
@214 In the end, these movies are only as good as their catch-phrases....

So, what's Avatar got going for it?

TOP 5 POTENTIAL CATCH-PHRASES IN AVATAR

5) Does this leaf make my ass look blue?

4) You're in the Na'vi now!

3) Hey, I've got a purple taint!

2) Don't talk to me of Na'vi tradition. It's nothing but rum, sodomy, and the lash....and handjobs. Lots and lots of handjobs......Really.

1) Meow, baby!

Posted by: naturalfake at December 11, 2009 09:15 PM (HylJ6)

301 @172: "Meanwhile... when is the next Frank Miller movie?"

Uh, it's already been released - The Spirit - and it pretty much sucked hard. A buddy of mine was in it and warned me about it ahead of time. It lived down to his descriptions.

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at December 11, 2009 09:27 PM (vupGF)

302
6) In the Na'vi, you can sail the seven seas
In the Na'vi, you can put your mind at ease...

Posted by: naturalfake at December 11, 2009 09:27 PM (HylJ6)

303 279 Dave C.

Yes, I've read most of Wheel of Time, but, for some reason, I lost interest near the end, so I never finished it. I remember liking it, and that it was Epic in every sense of the word, but it got fairly plodding toward the end. I think Jordan should have capped it off and finished it, but there's always money to be made. The whole 10-or-so-book series could have been done in 5 or 6.

I can't compare it to Sword of Truth books, except that they both are multivolume sets. Come to think of it, I never finished Goodkind's series either.

I like book series, but ones that have a conclusion are best. Stephen King's Dark Tower series, when he finally did finish it, was good, IMO, and better than anything he's written (almost).

With some SF, it never ends, like Star Trek: NG. There was no planned ending, just season after season of disconnected stories.

Babylon 5 did it right. Plan it in advance, including an END. Lost did it right, the next season is the last, so they say, and I hope they're right. Stories need conclusions. I'm in the middle of season three of Stargate:SG-1 on Hulu, and it seems to be well-planned, but there are 10 seasons, so I don't know if I can hold out.

All those that I mentioned I like for the LACK of leftist sermonizing. They're just good, fun stories. SG-1 actually respects humans, Earth, and the U.S. Military, which was a feature missing in Star Trek:All Of 'Em. Same with Babylon 5, for the most part. And they had conclusions! I did like most of the storytelling in the Star Trek series', since they were written by and directed by many, many people, not one hive-mind like most series, and although the leftism was strong and pungent, they didn't obscure the good Sci-Fi storytelling. (I speak only of Next Gen, Voyager, and DS9. Never watched anything after those.)

The prime directive in Star Trek has been obliquely discussed in this thread. "Don't interfere with primitive cultures. They must be sufficiently technologically and politically (and religiously) advanced for us to bless them with our friendship and technology."

That is SHITE. And the libs believe this today. F**k the aboriginal natives. When they produce their own computers, refrigeration, and spaceflight, then we'll help them, but not until. They have to evolve their OWN g**damn Newtons, Einsteins, Curies, and Babbages. And we shouldn't do a damn thing to get them out of the damn dark ages. Liberals give me Tourette's, I swear.

Posted by: Taqiyyotomist at December 11, 2009 09:30 PM (ltfED)

304 @192: "He and Doc Holliday had an intersting symbiosis in that movie; both
were well-educated men who would have been successful doing anything,
but chose to be violent gunfighters because of self loathing."

Uh, not so for Doc. He was dying a slow death of tuberculosis. He figured a fast death of whiskey and lead was a better alternative. Unfortunately for him, he was good with a gun. Also, the historical Johnny Ringo was a complete nothing - he's actually been listed as "the most overrated gunman in the West".

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at December 11, 2009 09:32 PM (vupGF)

305 281
Uhhh what the Hell? I gather the Na'Vi are hunter/gatherer types in this movie?

SARAH PALIN IS A HUNTER!!!

She is closer to the Na'Vi than any of you big city dwelling, latte sipping, lefty douchebags.
****
AHhahahahahahahahah *snort* hahahaaaaaaa! Nice catch, Codec.



Posted by: Taqiyyotomist at December 11, 2009 09:33 PM (ltfED)

306 Want to read a great piece of right leaning SF...dig up an old copy of Poul Anderson's "The Star Fox", written in the early 60's. A scathing indictment of the appeasement mentality, I reread it again during the opening days of the Iraq war and was most amused by the fact that the French were the gung ho nation in the book and the Anglosphere was riven with appeasement led by the World Militants for Peace (love that acronym...WMP!)
Brief plot summary. Not too distant future...French planetary colony "Europe Neuve" is attacked and invaded by weasel-like communistic aliens called the Aleriona. France wants Earth to go to war with the Aleriona to reclaim the colony, but the nominal World Govt, influenced by aforementioned WiMP's is against the idea. So the French dust off the old concept of Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and a Norwegian American spaceflight magnate becomes a pirate for the French, preying on the Aleriona fleet...

Posted by: Gunnar Heim at December 11, 2009 09:36 PM (dQmE4)

307 Vic, I meant, and should have said, "what I've read/played" is 90% lefty propaganda. Not what is out there.

Posted by: Taqiyyotomist at December 11, 2009 09:36 PM (ltfED)

308 @213: "
Wonder why hollywood hasent remade zulu."

Easy - the Zulus lost in that one. They'd remake Zulu Dawn, where they win.

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at December 11, 2009 09:36 PM (vupGF)

309 "Welshmen will not yield!"

http://tinyurl.com/6qef2

Posted by: Gunnar Heim at December 11, 2009 09:45 PM (dQmE4)

310 308:

Yep.

Posted by: RJ at December 11, 2009 09:47 PM (ADbI4)

311 Loved the Thomas Covenant books. Been years since I've read them. Even if the film was made, and sucked, I'd still buy the DVDs, even at the risk of later saying "man, that sucked.

Posted by: Lurkin'no'mo at December 11, 2009 09:48 PM (6zvrq)

312 screwed the cut'n'paste...here's the classic Zulu scene.

http://tinyurl.com/6qef2j

Posted by: Gunnar Heim at December 11, 2009 09:49 PM (dQmE4)

313 A group of Christians fly a building into a plane load of muslims on 11/9?
Perfect.

Posted by: gjz at December 11, 2009 09:57 PM (GdqSP)

314 Goodkind sucks. If you must try him, go to the library and avoid getting ripped off. Jordan is another overrated hack.

Posted by: packsoldier at December 11, 2009 10:02 PM (h80tN)

315 Cameron is obviously a very competent administrator, executive or something because he has the film making instincts of a hack. He's not a visual artist, not a story teller, not any kind of auteur... and
for a guy who has credit for 2 of the 'best' sci-fi films of all time, he's not very sci-fi either.

This guy is the luckiest film maker of all time. He's Big Budget Hollywood in the worst sense, bailed out by his one true classic, a classic by another film maker, and his relationships with stars like Arnold and Sigourney. He doesn't have a big resume. He's done like 10 films in 30 years.

And now this? This is his vision? Avatard? It's like that fan-fiction where everyone's some kind of furry critter, plus corn ball CGI.

Posted by: gjz at December 11, 2009 10:06 PM (GdqSP)

316 A group of Christians fly a building into a plane load of muslims on 11/9?

The Joooos were in it, too.

Posted by: Xoxotl at December 11, 2009 10:14 PM (8Phc8)

317 271
I think that Star Wars Ep. 3 pretty much did it all, visually.

Is that why I wanted to poke out my eyes at the end?

Me, I'm tired of movies that are just aping video games. I'll take real people and optical photography over CGI.

P: I think I mentioned this earlier in thread - I totally agree. I make games and play tons so CGI in film is boring and frankly less interesting than the cinematic in games or the game play itself. I want to see a real person do something that looks real, done in real-time, in the real world, caught on film. You can't do that with games of animation - games and animation rule everything else.

Posted by: Percopius at December 11, 2009 10:16 PM (V0nbk)

318 I'll take real people and optical photography over CGI.

Clerks, Dinner with Andre. Both produced for almost nothing. Both awesome.

All too often F/X and CGI are just a way of smoothing visual brain numbing bondo over an otherwise bankrupt piece of film making that was flaccidly written and produced.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at December 11, 2009 10:16 PM (dRgb9)

319 314 packsoldier

Thank you for the insightful analysis. Don't you have some commenting to do at YouTube? Incedentally, I am of the opinion that Jordan's works are of greater quality than anything I've ever read by packsoldier.

Posted by: Taqiyyotomist at December 11, 2009 10:26 PM (ltfED)

320 So I guess the terminators were supposed to be the good guys?

Posted by: Ostral B Heretic at December 11, 2009 10:31 PM (7wwlS)

321 @317 - I'll take real people and optical photography over CGI.

One word: Tron.

The perfect blending of real people and computer graphics.

Posted by: Xoxotl at December 11, 2009 10:47 PM (8Phc8)

322 When Cameron took the stage at the Oscars for "Titanic" to much applause, then hoisted his statue in the air while declaring "I'm the king of the world!", after which the applause turned into embarrassed silence, was the end of what little respect I had for Cameron. When he appeared like a well-dressed Gollum a couple of years ago beside some urn or chest or whatever, that he figured disproved the existence of Jesus or something, he became a hopeless fool in my eyes.

I hope this film tanks, bankrupts the studio, and makes Cameron radioactive for the rest of his life.

Posted by: G$ at December 11, 2009 11:09 PM (nEatY)

323 I do appreciate Cameron for his balls. He really bullied the studios into a huge budget on that, and then got them to give him more, and poured in millions of his own money.

He said something like 'as a rule I don't bet against myself."

I did not like Titanic much as a movie, but I thought it was pretty amazing as a business endeavor.

Posted by: ace at December 11, 2009 11:15 PM (jlvw3)

324 Cameron is surely betting a majority of Americans will fall for the innovative eye-candy and expensive, well-orchestrated spectacle in "Avatar" -- while completely ignoring the cliched plot and raving leftist anti-American lunacy simmering loudly in the background. This last will surely appeal to foreign audiences, obviously.

Well, considering what took place on November 4, 2008 -- he's not ENTIRELY off the mark, now is he?

Posted by: Tom Gordon at December 12, 2009 12:09 AM (62tzb)

325 What kind of a tard could watch Dances With Wolves in Space and think it has anything to do with Sarah Palin? (A movie about achingly hot MILFs dressed up like naughty librarians maybe, but THIS?)

The leftist reviewer obviously has no idea what conservative principles
are. He really does believe the Marxist caricature that paints Palin
et al as oppressive, immoral, monstrous bogeymen.


This is intellectual laziness, which is a greater sin than merely being wrong. To arrive at an incorrect conclusion after careful study of the facts is unfortunate, but it does happen. But to go through life avoiding reality in preference to a twisted and shallow straw man version of the truth is pure cowardice.

I really do think that this underscores a fundamental flaw of leftists. They are just plain dishonest. As much as they lie to everyone else, they lie to themselves first and perhaps most of all. Someone who is intellectually honest and intellectually curious may start out as a leftist if they're fed bad information, but they won't remain a leftist. Simply looking with their own eyes and thinking about what they see around them will disabuse them of most leftist nonsense.

You can't get thrown in the ocean and still maintain that water isn't wet. Unless of course you are a leftist in which case you simply pretend that the ocean is made of something other than water, or that it is not the right kind of water, or that water is forced to be wet by the evils of capitalism or whichever designated villain is most convenient.

Leftist just plain suck. They're walking talking examples of what not to be. The sole purpose of their existence is to serve as a warning to others.

Posted by: Lee at December 12, 2009 12:52 AM (TcVyy)

326 Way back at 271:
Me, I'm tired of movies that are just aping video games. I'll take real people and optical photography over CGI.

That's exactly it. The problem with CGI is that most of it falls into the inanimate-object equivalent of the Uncanny Valley. Cameron should've just said, "Fuck this live-action stuff, I'll just do the whole thing on computers, it'll save us a ton on sets."

Posted by: Jake Was Here at December 12, 2009 01:41 AM (HyeCe)

327 Mmm. Sliced Tribbles.

Posted by: Ensign Simpson at December 12, 2009 01:48 AM (2qU2d)

328 Ugh. I didn't even know this movie was coming out until the big hype over the trailer release. Which sucked like a giant vacuum. It was incredibly obvious that the film was a big giant f* you to the evil righties/Americans/government/soldiers/typical liberal enemy etc. Throw in the whole rip-off of another author's work and it's pretty typical.

Oh, and I love the Palin reference. She has these people really scared if they'll go out of their way to attack in relation to some crappy movie that she isn't even linked to. Aside from she's a conservative and it's a bunch of liberal spew.

Posted by: soulpile at December 12, 2009 01:51 AM (afWhQ)

329 Today, at work, during shift change:

Co-Worker: "Man, I can't wait to see that movie Avatar."
Me: "You mean 'Dances With Smurfs'? Yeah, I'll pass."
Co-Worker: "What the hell are you talking about?"
Me: "Native tribal blue aliens showing us mean evil humans who's boss? Waste of a movie."
Co-Worker: "Blue aliens? There are no blue aliens in The Last Airbender."

He honestly thought that the movie Avatar was the currently-in-production Avatar: The Last Airbender movie. When I loaded up the trailer, he scowled and said "Lame," and walked off.

Posted by: Xoxotl at December 12, 2009 03:18 AM (j88uA)

330 Avatar = Cloverfield. Smell the hype.

Posted by: Corona at December 12, 2009 08:34 AM (woZIc)

331 hahaha
up to 91% on rotten tomatoes, and being proposed for best picture and best director.
Avatar is a daisy cutter filled with liberal memetics aimed at the heart of the next generation.
Rated: PG-13

All your base are belong to us.

Posted by: strangelet at December 12, 2009 09:39 AM (J+DeG)

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The Fantastic Mr. Fox.

And it's almost made $15 million in a whole month!

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Ah, yes. You've got to love it when a liberal just comes out and admits they're into brainwashing children.

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Let me guess.
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Dude, not real-real Che. Real imaginary noble good-hearted Hollywood Che.

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Can you imagine what a good writer and effects team could do with that?

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There's a Mitch Rapp movie coming? You wouldn't kid on something like that, would you?

Long as it doesn't get the Sum of all Fears treatment, I'm in.

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The series upon which it was based is pretty damn good. First time I've seen even traces of serious storytelling in western animation since the Diniverse ended* (not counting Pixar, because Pixar is an entity unto itself). Granted, it's heavily anime-influenced, though that's not necessarily a bad thing.

* Well, maybe the 03 version of TMNT.

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Unfortunately, they are banking on all the Eurotrash and foreign anti-American sentiment to make it profitable, and sadly they are right.

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341

I have no idea who the people were who funded this movie (maybe entirely the elitist James Cameron himself with his own money. One thing it does show is how utterly confused, hypocritical and contradictory Cameron's world view truly is). All the way through the story and acting it frothed and mockingly pushed a long typical list of totally pathetic, elitist, hypocritical pacifist, new age/earth worship cliches.

Then add to that this overall frothing hatred that portrays all American Military and mankind itself as being all demented psychotic murders who glee in genocide and destruction of all living things, who need to be destroyed or change their ways so they can become like hypocritical new age globalist aliens.

The story line and cliches was such pathetic hypocritical, contradictory, reverse psychology, globalist, Marxist new age propaganda it was unreal. It really is prophetic as to how far American society has fallen for this filth to be made and paid for.

Don't go to pay to see this movie unless you enjoy funding hypocritical, nihilistic, globalist earth worship propaganda indoctrination, and story lines which shamelessly mock everything good and honorable about all the military and mankind itself. It is pure animalistic, anarchistic, Marxist propaganda meant to indoctrinate ignorant simple minds into changing the world into the traditional Marxist, nihilistic, antichrist, earth worshiping, genocidal world view which all true Marxists live, kill and die for and always will until they control all (and soon will through the UN, IMF and OECD and Climate propaganda).

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342 this topic is a joke ?...
so many negative posts,..without ANY sense.
See the Movie, and if you still dont like it - you must be braindead, or Its realy sad what you cant have the same expirience I had in cinema.
It was outstanding brilliant !

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Posted by: سعودي كام at June 07, 2011 09:04 AM (BgmBb)

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Posted by: Sarah532 at June 28, 2011 12:30 PM (NWVHp)






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