CRU agrees to release all data

Although that was quick, this obviously won't be including any raw that went into the dumpster.

...n a statement welcomed by climate change sceptics, the university said it would make all the data accessible as soon as possible, once its Climatic Research Unit (CRU) had negotiated its release from a range of non-publication agreements...

An interesting quote from David Holland in that same article:

: "These guys called climate scientists have not done any more physics or chemistry than I did. A lifetime in engineering gives you a very good antenna. It also cures people of any self belief they cannot be wrong. You clear up a lot of messes during a lifetime in engineering. I could be wrong on global warming – I know that – but the guys on the other side don't believe they can ever be wrong."

Holland is of course absolutely right. Nobody designs bridges, tall buildings, or airplanes anymore based on hope, faith, or squishy theory. Engineers are the ultimate "reality based" community.

That was not always the case. As railroads were spreading across North America in the 1800's, roughly 1/3 of the early railway bridges collapsed soon after being built. That epidemic of bridge collapses was a major scandal. It wasn't that anyone wanted those bridges to collapse, it was that structural analysis techniques were in their infancy.

Similarly, the early era of Aviation saw some horrendous designs put forth. Yes, they were capable of staggering into the air, but they were not necessarily stable and/or exhibited some very evil handling traits when placed in certain attitudes (ex. the GeeBee R2 racing plane, which was fast as hell, but pretty much killed the majority of pilots who tried to fly it).

The history of science and engineering is very closely tied with the history of failures. Failures are what teach us that we don't know all we thought we knew. They humble us and make us reexamine our assumptions and data.

I expect to see a number of significant "failures" to be found when CRU releases this data. The real work comes after the jeers and giggling though. To keep all the money spent on those failres from being a waste, we'll need to learn something from it.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at 03:39 AM

Comments

1 I hope the Flaming Skull is getting overtime pay for this weekend.

Posted by: PA Cat at November 30, 2009 03:44 AM (l3v1U)

2 The flaming skull's carbon footprint must be bigger than Al Gore's.

Posted by: Jim in San Diego at November 30, 2009 03:50 AM (H7Rlw)

3 This is two days old! C'mon!

Posted by: logprof at November 30, 2009 03:58 AM (I3Udb)

4 Those early bridge failures? Know what caused 'em?

Ask the CRU.

/sarc

Posted by: Kevin in ABQ at November 30, 2009 03:58 AM (/RwSS)

5 Those early bridge failures? Know what caused 'em?

Ask the CRU.

/sarc

Posted by: Kevin in ABQ at November 30, 2009 03:58 AM (/RwSS)

--It was because the earth was so much cooler 250 years ago, before capitalism heated it up! Rail ties and bridge supports were more brittle when it was so bone-chillingly cold!

Posted by: Greenhouse Gashole at November 30, 2009 04:08 AM (I3Udb)

As a US Green Building Council accreditated LEED AP, I discovered early on that the green community is being driven by politics and money. I became involved with sustainability back in the early 80's at a time when natural gas was not locally available for new projects and there was very little in the way of technology and resources. Sustainability is important to me but has been severly compromised by politicians who try and obtain political capital by mandating LEED projects in their building ordinances. These people are dangerous and have no clue.

I was dismayed that Google selectively filtered all the Climategate information from their search requests at the beginning of the story. Then I found out who is a senior adviser on Google's Board of Directors - no other than Fat Albert Gore!

Posted by: rookwood at November 30, 2009 04:13 AM (cOXVZ)

7 "Engineers are the ultimate "reality based" community."

Well then, beam me the fuck up, Scottie. I'm sick of the morons in this shit-hole.

Posted by: Angus Dei at November 30, 2009 04:42 AM (WAI6U)

8 It's not the data that is the real problem, but the ridiculous contention that CO2 levels drive climate and the fact that they rely on computer models for their predictions - computer models that are, quite embarrassingly, inaccurate. The Earth's climate is a highly dynamical system that doesn't admit of long-term predictions, even with the best of models. It's odd that chaos theory would emerge, in good part, out of meteorology and would be so ignored in climatology. On top of that, these CRU models seem to bear little relation to reality, looking more like data-fitting and time series modeling (from what I've heard; I haven't examined the code, yet) making the whole enterprise laughable. The fact that they have actually thrown away raw data (unheard of, if you ask me - throwing away raw data that was the basis of papers ... crazy) and massaging the input data just adds to the utter insanity of it all.

This is "social science", not physical science.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 30, 2009 04:42 AM (A46hP)

9 I will have loads of popcorn ready for the data that comes out. As someone who works in data analysis (granted, financial analysis not climate), I bet the rediculous metholodigies used are evident even to a novice like me.

Posted by: In Exile at November 30, 2009 04:50 AM (Dw6L6)

10 I don't see where this is flame-worthy. Sure they will release data that they haven't trashed yet. All that is left is the cherry-picked stuff that supports their claims. I wouldn't trust the MF's any further than I could throw them.

and PA, discussing all those early Engineering failures. Those failures were responsible for creating the major Engineering societies and codes.

My favorite is the ASME codes which were established after a huge tank of molasses collapsed/exploded in Boston drowning people and horses in mollasses.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2009 04:53 AM (CDUiN)

11 It's true that the release of "adjusted" data without releasing enough information to back out the "adjustments" is of limited value. And I don't see an offer to release their code, though maybe it's already out there. That's equally important in order to be able to reproduce reported results, which I hope we can all now agree should never again be discarded by people claiming to be scientists.

But the wonderful thing is that these hucksters have been forced to this announcement. It's a clear sign that the story isn't going away.

Also notice it's a good story, the kind of story that American newspapers would once have been eager to break. Once again, the British press is showing ours what real journalists do. They're on this story like... like...what's the word? Oh, yeah. Reporters.

Posted by: Splunge at November 30, 2009 05:01 AM (9uwvY)

12 i think you'd have to call climate science, "imagineering" wouldn't you? That's what Disney calls it, and it's certainly Mickey Mouse.

Posted by: Angus Dei at November 30, 2009 05:06 AM (WAI6U)

13 Yeah, the good news is that things are happening, indeed institutions like the CRU and Penn State are finding themselves forced to act, without this story ever having the sort of place in major media outlets that it deserves.

The gatekeepers are dead. Good riddance.

Posted by: Popcorn at November 30, 2009 05:17 AM (OOehk)

14 The history of science and engineering is very closely tied with the history of failures. Failures are what teach us that we don't know all we thought we knew. They humble us and make us reexamine our assumptions and data.

It's SCIENCE you idiots, and SCIENCE is never wrong. Failures teach YOU that you don't know jack, but since I never fail I know everything that is needed to know. I read Discovery and Science magazines, so my expertise on this matter trumps your silly world of actually working with things.

I ban you from the Vulcan Science Academy and bid you adieu

Kilgroe, I told you if the Drano won't clear the sink, pour Liquid Plumber in with it!

Posted by: Cahrsel Jhonsno at November 30, 2009 05:36 AM (sYxEE)

15 Meanwhile, James Hansen, oblivious to all the hubbub, continues to preach the Gospel of Saint Albert.

Posted by: A Balrog of Morgoth (now with 100% more smugness!) at November 30, 2009 05:45 AM (wgLRl)

16 Heh, that weekend-long jeering all across the Net must have needled a few people. Apparently the dog didn't eat all their homework, after all! Now, if we can see that it's the real original stuff, not data that was massaged to meet standards....

Posted by: exdem13 at November 30, 2009 05:46 AM (lYKj1)

17 Hm, so folks are releasing the data they used to arrive at their conclusions. I seem to recall something about that on the first day of science class and discussing the Scientific Method.

Sounds like folks are doing what they're supposed to be doing, better give them a cookie.

Posted by: Tom in Korea at November 30, 2009 05:47 AM (nS7nk)

A lifetime in engineering gives you a very good antenna.

If only. Check this site, for instance, for a long, horrified gander at any number of people from the "hard" sciences -- chemistry, engineering, you name it -- who have, almost to a man, sworn utter and undying allegiance to The Great Gaia Hoax.

It will depress you.

Posted by: kent at November 30, 2009 06:00 AM (9xkDN)

19 I emailed my Congressional representative and a staffer there that I got a business card from once. Maybe if enough others did the same we'd see some action. If you do so and have some sort of technical credential as well as a reasonable request for them to look into, maybe they will. The generally ugly mood in the mass of people who vote must be noticeable by now. Even the idiot high school class president that went on to law school then Congress ought to have picked up on it.

Computer output has always been suspect - blame it on the software output. If that does not work, blame it one the contractor for not building it right - it's difficult to discern what was according to the drawings and what was not from a pile of rubble.

Posted by: Guaman at November 30, 2009 06:07 AM (JFgTJ)

20 Fast aside, Politico is reporting ACORN wants to "rebrand" by changing names.

How does DINGLEBERRY sound?

Posted by: CoolCzech at November 30, 2009 06:28 AM (QECjC)

21 Um, does anyone else expect us to get the REAL data from these idiots? I expect a thoroughly redacted and rewritten version myself. Plus, without all of the "raw" data, isn't a data dump of "fake" data pretty useless - hence their willingness to do it?

Bottom line, if releasing this data was going to hurt these guys, would they agree so quickly to do it? Nope, we are going to be treated to one ginned up steaming pile. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find they have a whole set of "fake" data just sitting by in case this happened.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 30, 2009 06:39 AM (Gm9rd)

By now, the whole thing is so us vs them that if McIntyre comes out and sez "No global warming!" I wouldn't trust him either. What a waste.

Posted by: HiHo at November 30, 2009 06:40 AM (LBAbB)

23 Wasn't it "settled science" at one point that the Earth was FLAT and the CENTER OF THE KNOWN UNIVERSE?

Isn't the very term "settled science" an oxymoron? How can anything where so much guessing takes place ever be considered "settled"?

Didn't the Nazis "have a consensus" that the Jews were an inferior race and therefore must be eliminated to allow for Aryan Purity? Did a 65% Approval Rating for Obama in January mean he was going to be an outstanding president? If there is a "consensus" that Obamacare is a disaster, why is Congress still pursuing it?

Is the debate ever OVER?

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at November 30, 2009 06:46 AM (Gm9rd)

They can release everything down to the luchroom menu and the staff pay; but it won't change the fact that the whole of climatology has been corrupted to the point that they need to start over.

I don't care if they still had the raw data. Who could say that they did'nt make the raw data up?

Posted by: theBman at November 30, 2009 06:47 AM (pBNEK)

25 Before you go out on the town or to your next business meeting tack a good look at your shoe colletction.Does it need to be updated?If so.then take a look at the Christian Louboutin shoes collection.Here you will find many exciting designs that will enhance your outfits perfectly.

Posted by: Christian Louboutin Shoes at November 30, 2009 07:01 AM (dOr2H)

26 christian obviously has this thread confused with the ONT

Posted by: Chuck Norris at November 30, 2009 07:22 AM (erIg9)

27 It will be interesting to see the data released. I'm curious as to the holes in the data, and to see what if any obvious changes have been made to it. There should be some pretty obvious signs, i would think.

Posted by: todler at November 30, 2009 07:25 AM (fPOY0)

28 If the people who subscribe to the warming religion really wanted to prove their case and silence critics they would do the following:

First they would trash ALL studies, calculations, and data that had any ties to CRU.

Second they would compile EVERYTHING used in the UN report that established the case for AGW. That is the raw data, the circumstances surrounding the collection of the data, the calculations and methodologies in interpreting the data, and finally any assumptions made within those calculations and methodologies. Included with the data should be a list of ALL the comments that were submitted as part of the "peer review" process and how those comments were either dispensed with or how they were incorporated.

Third, they would publish all of this material on the internet, as well as scientific journals.

Fourth, they would dispense with such PR related stunts as renaming the issue "climate change".

And last of all, they would completely disown Al Bore and decry him as a charlatan and a liar.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2009 07:25 AM (CDUiN)

While I believe in absolute truth, there are at least 2 groups of people I for sure want to believe in it: Surgeons and engineers that build bridges.

Posted by: John F Not Kerry at November 30, 2009 07:27 AM (HF2US)

They lost the real raw data. All they are releasing is the cooked and adjusted data. There is no raw data from the real world. Just a bunch of cooked data that looks the way they want it to look and no way to compare to the real world. This is not science. To be science you would have to be able to take the original dataset and 're-cook' it to come up with the same figures. But they are not releasing methods because they say it is a secret and they are not releasing any data from the real world otherwise known as the original data from the real world. They cannot even say what stations comprise the data set. They may as well release a string of random numbers. This is not science.

Posted by: Steve In Tulsa at November 30, 2009 07:29 AM (lv+sJ)

31 When I was in school one of the best lectures ever was when the heat transfer professor started the class by drawing a cross on the blackboard. He said, 'when he was a boy in Greece, the doctors would always draw a cross at the top of prescriptions, which meant, with the help of God this prescription will work.'

He then said 'as engineers we don't get to draw crosses at the top of designs'.

Posted by: joe at November 30, 2009 07:32 AM (hhF7T)

32 Here's the methodology:

1) Compile Data

2) ????????????

3) Warming! (Profit!)

Posted by: nickless at November 30, 2009 07:37 AM (MMC8r)

33 I am afraid I am highly suspicious of this data release. Having seen the emails where they manipulate data, ignore data, go to extreme lengths to avoid compliance with FOI and FOIA, I just don't believe this will be uncorrupted data.

They probably have had 20 grad students inputting falsified data for the last week.

Nope. No sale. Start over. Historical records are still available. Current data is available from various temperature collection sites. They know what computer models they used.

START OVER, with everything posted on-line for critique as they go along.

If their theory is true, then they should be eager to duplicate the results for millions of people world-wide, and then we will all support the theory.

Until they do this, I won't believe a thing they say.

Posted by: Miss Marple at November 30, 2009 07:38 AM (4DwVn)

34 #30, is right; what does this do? Instead of saying "the science is settled," they'll simply say "the data's been released," or the data's been settled." This is simply MORE NOTHING.

flaming skull, go back to.....wherever it is you go when not being used.

Posted by: ParisParamus at November 30, 2009 07:40 AM (I2aaX)

35 I used to work with electrical engineers ..

Just try saying "Ohm's Observation" around one

... or 'Ohm's Insight'

... or 'Ohm's damn lucky guess'

or anything that doesn't end in "law."

pfffffttttttttt ... I say.

It's only a law while it's useful.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at November 30, 2009 07:40 AM (ruzrP)

36 In other words, this is a chew toy or bone to keep the dog busy until Copenhagen comes and goes; how long will it take to even fact-check the "raw data" they release that hasn't been destroyed?

Posted by: ParisParamus at November 30, 2009 07:47 AM (I2aaX)

Al Gore, June 24, 2004:

“Whenever a chief executive spends prodigious amounts of energy in an effort to convince the American people of a falsehood, he damages the fabric of democracy.”

Gee, Al, you don't say?

Posted by: Crusty at November 30, 2009 07:48 AM (qzgbP)

38 You guys need to read Charles Johnson more. Then you would know that no data was destroyed, the raw data doesn't matter anyway and all of Phil Jones calculations are absolutely 100% verified and there can be no further discussion of this matter.

Posted by: chad at November 30, 2009 07:51 AM (WNcvq)

39
the flaming skull lair?

Posted by: Scopes, the talking monkey at November 30, 2009 07:58 AM (z37MR)

40 Can the top AGW clergy just claim the dog ate my homework?

Posted by: Flavius Julius at November 30, 2009 07:58 AM (kKP5O)

41 the flaming skull lair?

Posted by: Scopes, the talking monkey at November 30, 2009 07:58 AM (z37MR)

A secure undisclosed location. Playing Chess with Dick Cheney.

Posted by: Flavius Julius at November 30, 2009 07:59 AM (kKP5O)

Completely off topic - I can't post this in the thread about the slain officers because it has degraded into spam and douches making innuendo about cops:

Go and take a look at our national memorial to officers slain in the line of duty:

http://tinyurl.com/ydum74f

I stumbled across this memorial during a trip to D.C. We were cutting across between two 'main attraction' sites and found myself in this unassuming small memorial. Over 14,000 slain in the line of duty. Once I realized what it was and began to read the names on the wall, I was stunned.

These people, and their families, deal with the extremely real possibility that in the line of every day work they may not come home again to their loved ones.

I've never looked at police officers the same way since.

Posted by: No Arab Imperialism at November 30, 2009 08:01 AM (f2QL0)

43 Are they just releasing the data, or the methodology and source code too? I want these frauds laughed out of the scientific community.

Posted by: Tushar at November 30, 2009 08:02 AM (PGSXB)

44 38 You guys need to read Charles Johnson more. Then you would know that no data was destroyed, the raw data doesn't matter anyway and all of Phil Jones calculations are absolutely 100% verified and there can be no further discussion of this matter.

Posted by: chad

I would but I can't hold my nose and type at the same time.

Posted by: Crusty at November 30, 2009 08:04 AM (qzgbP)

Ok - excuse the sock puppet . . .and the bold stayed on after my tinyurl paste. Not trying to be an all Bold drama typer.

I really need my morning coffee.

But my point stands - of all the memorials we saw in D.C. that trip, this one had the biggest impact on me. The completely humble small nature,compared to some of the other grandiose sites, coupled with the ultimate sacrifice that it symbolized.

Posted by: Jade Sea at November 30, 2009 08:07 AM (f2QL0)

46 Hey! Don't make fun of Churls' religion!

Oops, I meant his favorite settled science, you creationist/racist tea party types.

Posted by: bigpinkfluffybunny at November 30, 2009 08:09 AM (KWhJd)

47 "... as soon as possible, once its Climatic Research Unit (CRU) had negotiated its release from a range of non-publication agreements."

The CRU has not agreed to release anything unless and until they get releases from government officials.

They're firing a shot across the bow of politicians already swimming in billions of "green" dollar bribes the world over - protect us or we'll release the data that shows it's all just a huge political fundraiser and end your little party trips to Copenhagen every year.

Politicians aren't dumb. They'll never agree to have their confidential data released if that means the end of the partying.

Don't hold your breath, kids.

Posted by: someguy at November 30, 2009 08:09 AM (VRJIW)

48 How will the MSM decide between Hasslehoff and the cake boy golfer?

Posted by: Flavius Julius at November 30, 2009 08:10 AM (kKP5O)

49 ...I bet the rediculous metholodigies used are evident even to a novice like me.

Funny how it's often a simple issue of validation, isn't it?

Posted by: Hmmm at November 30, 2009 08:15 AM (rx33e)

50 Why would we want to look at Michael Mann's old cocktail napkins?

Posted by: fluffy at November 30, 2009 08:15 AM (4Kl5M)

51 Confidential data

WTF. Someone needs to start a cable talk show and call it the No Imbecile Zone....

Posted by: ParisParamus at November 30, 2009 08:16 AM (I2aaX)

What will be fun is the CRU now selling their "cooked" data as 100% genuine. These clowns will not give up.

Globull Warming is a total crock.

Posted by: Murph at November 30, 2009 08:17 AM (Cxwf3)

53 These people have invested too much time and money in the 'green revolution' to give in the slightest bit. Just think of all the Companies, people and tax money dedicated to the cause of global warming. Then consider all of the disciples that worship at the Altar of Global Warming, the true believers (Ed Begley types). They ain't going away.

Posted by: Artruen at November 30, 2009 08:18 AM (L+dBi)

54 The data will be so badly manipulated that they will bear no relationship to the original. You would be equally successful using a random number generator to analyze AGW.

Posted by: Steve L. at November 30, 2009 08:24 AM (Gkhxf)

55 CRU agrees to release all data. In other news, the Brinks Robbery thieves have promised to return all the money they stole.

Posted by: Crusty at November 30, 2009 08:25 AM (qzgbP)

CNN still says, "Your search climategate did not match any documents"

CNN can't even report on the CRU releasing data because that would raise the issue of the history of climategate and CNN's corresponding history of denying it.

CNN and the CRU are climate fraud co-conspirators.

Posted by: Chas at November 30, 2009 08:37 AM (yjDfo)

57 Prediction: The data will be cherry picked.

Posted by: dagny at November 30, 2009 08:38 AM (4tf69)

58 Possibility: Or written in crayon.

Posted by: Hmmm at November 30, 2009 08:41 AM (rx33e)

59 O/T: "A supertanker bound from Saudi Arabia to New Orleans with 28 crew members on board was hijacked off the coast of Somalia, the European Union Naval Force said in a statement Monday."

Posted by: curious at November 30, 2009 08:45 AM (p302b)

Thermodynamics 1

CRU/Al Gore/CO₂ 0

Posted by: Fritz at November 30, 2009 08:45 AM (GwPRU)

61 Just like the cocktail napkins.

Posted by: Hmmm at November 30, 2009 08:46 AM (rx33e)

62 How about some evidence that carbon is the number one cause to this 'problem'?

That's what I want to know. Now that we have proof that AGW is nothing but a cult for self loathing fucktards, how about some of that PHYSICAL SCIENTIFIC FUCKING EVIDENCE that carbon is so horrible for us. While I was in the car Sunday on my way the local park, NPR was spouting that having a fire during Christmas is 'not green'

Hey NPR, get bent you bunch of whiny asshats.

Posted by: MelodicMetal at November 30, 2009 08:48 AM (x4S2a)

63 While I was in the car Sunday on my way the local park, NPR was spouting that having a fire during Christmas is 'not green'

Considering that it liberates CO₂for plants to eat, that's directly wrong.

Posted by: nickless at November 30, 2009 08:50 AM (MMC8r)

Or the data may just be manufactured. How hard could it be to go in and change temperatures or tree ring widths or whatnot? They have lied so much already to achieve their true purpose of global marxism and there is so much money invested in this scam that changing a little data shouldn't be a problem. It's the left who think that the ends justify the means especially if the "ends" are there long held idealogical goals of population control, socialism-communism, mandatory abortion, etc.

Posted by: dagny at November 30, 2009 08:51 AM (4tf69)

65 I like engineers. If it wasn't for them and their OCD ways, we geologist would have no one to mess with. Let's be honest, geophysicist have no humor. A engineer with some scotch in him, on the other hand, will come up with all kinds of crazy shit.

Posted by: Rob B at November 30, 2009 08:57 AM (q32Ly)

http://tiny.cc/6ffoc

"The processes in the IPCC are so robust, so inclusive, that even if an author or two has a particular bias it is completely unlikely that bias will find its way into the IPCC report," he said.

"Every single comment that an expert reviewer provides has to be answered either by acceptance of the comment, or if it is not accepted, the reasons have to be clearly specified. So I think it is a very transparent, a very comprehensive process which insures that even if someone wants to leave out a piece of peer reviewed literature there is virtually no possibility of that happening."

Posted by: dagny at November 30, 2009 08:57 AM (4tf69)

67 Total Non-troversy.

Pretty calendar, mister?

Posted by: Chas Johnstoned at November 30, 2009 08:57 AM (8WOM0)

68 Facinating how these people don't realize that "peer review" means "echo chamber" or "heretic assessment".

Posted by: dagny at November 30, 2009 08:59 AM (4tf69)

69 "Every single comment that an expert reviewer provides has to be answered either by acceptance of the comment, or if it is not accepted, the reasons have to be clearly specified.

Well, we already know that statement is a "robust" lie. Comments were submitted on the original hockey stick relative to the mediveal warm period and the mini-ice-age. Those comments were blown off.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2009 09:03 AM (CDUiN)

70 progress - it's not even good social science.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2009 09:05 AM (vb5IK)

71 Want more data? Seize the computers! Any deleted files can be undeleted.

Posted by: Def Leppard at November 30, 2009 09:08 AM (hIOnV)

72 On a related note, we keep hearing about the 'hacked' emails. Has anything been presented to back that assertion, or are we just using the same propaganda technique as with AGW, just flooding the airwaves with the assertion until it is part of the landscape.

Posted by: fluffy at November 30, 2009 09:08 AM (4Kl5M)

The data is cooked, it is of no value.

That email where the guy was cheering on new high temperatures bugs me the most. He was cheering on the oncoming demise of humanity. Misanthropic mthrfckr.

Posted by: Cincinnatus at November 30, 2009 09:08 AM (L/qBT)

74 Water-board the AGW clergy.

Posted by: Flavius Julius at November 30, 2009 09:09 AM (kKP5O)

75 One of those bridge failures happened in Ashtabula OH (local to here) in 1876:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashtabula_River_Railroad_Disaster

Posted by: Jeffrey Quick at November 30, 2009 09:12 AM (g9neE)

76 I rebuke those who disparage me. Never did I set an exact date for the Ecopolyse.
Now many throw there hands in the air and despair over the lack of warming. It will comes my friends. Figures and data mean nothing. These things are of men and are always questionable. The Ecopolyse is upon us. Let us extinguish our lights and walk to the parks where we will wait. The Ecopolyse will come. Gaia, Mother, take us.

Posted by: Al "Warren Miller" Gore at November 30, 2009 09:12 AM (B0vt9)

77 ManBearPig lives!!!

Posted by: Flavius Julius at November 30, 2009 09:14 AM (kKP5O)

78 Ignoring the medieval warm period is insane on its face. Because the medieval warm period gave rise to increased food/grain production the population of Europe, especially northern europe, exploded. The population explosion led to the Vikings colonizing the British isles, normandy, Russia, Iceland and Greenland and establishing trade into the mediterranian. The density of the population was eventually the cause for the spread of the plague which most believe was passed on through the bite of fleas carried by rats but there are some who believe that the plague was actually viral and passed person to person. The deaths of 1/3 of the population led to the rise of cities as the rural community no longer needed to produce as much food. The labor was so scarce people were no longer tied to the land but could sell their labor to the highest bidder. With increased access to food, because of the population decline, man was better able to use his time to develop civilization; (cities, seige engines, naval vessels, printing presses) and go on quests like the crusades. The Church, after the plague also encouraged the crusades because its numbers and its believers had fallen off. The crusades led to the renaissance which eventually led to the enlightenment. And here we are. No medieval warm period and the track of western civilization is altered. That's a whole 'nother space time continuum (Forgive me, I watched the Star Trek movie 3 times this weekend).

Posted by: dagny at November 30, 2009 09:17 AM (4tf69)

79 Oh, to piggyback on my post upstream, the question is 'how much of the move from 300 ppm to 330 ppm of man-caused CO₂, a minuscule amount anyway, will be mitigated by the production of more robust plant life?'

I don't think any of those Magic Computer Models is quite calculating natural reactions to any of their projected increases, are they?

Posted by: nickless at November 30, 2009 09:18 AM (MMC8r)

80 Where is KayInMaine when you need her? I'll take a stab at it...

This is further proof of racism, and the rich keeping us poor.
Time we WAKE UP! and see that woman and the poor are HARDEST HIT! Save the earth!

Posted by: Mjim at November 30, 2009 09:18 AM (V8B//)

81 Yeah, I went over to LGF for the first time in months to see what Johnson had to say. The guy who's so keen on science and logic committed the argumentum ad verecundiam fallacy (that's an "argument from authority" for all you morons) with a quote from Stephen Hawking made long before the CRU story broke. And I use the word "authority" loosely, since Hawking is a theoretical physicist, not a climatologist.

What a pathetic, whiny little liberal shill Johnson has become.

Posted by: G$ at November 30, 2009 09:22 AM (nxYGK)

82 In my profession, if 'only some' of the data is cooked, we lose our funding and face fraud charges.

What say you AL GORE?!

This whole thing is a god damned farce. Boy it's a good thing we have people watching this and taking it into account before we go to Copenhagen.. oh wait...

Posted by: MelodicMetal at November 30, 2009 09:23 AM (x4S2a)

83 For those of you ready to turn your noses up at Soylent Green after the Ecopolpse I would remind you that it could be worse. You could have Soylent Brown with a Soylent Yellow Shake.

Posted by: Al Gore at November 30, 2009 09:24 AM (B0vt9)

84 Global warming will happen!!! Just not in our lifetime. When the sun grows and grows it will envelope the earth and more. Then collapse. Humanity will be gone forever unless we escape to another "earth".

Posted by: harleycowboy at November 30, 2009 09:25 AM (JKGfQ)

85 Access to the raw data is a red herring. The data issue is a complicated mess due to poor information management policies and overlapping data rights agreements with the sources. Someone should have cleaned this up a long time ago. It is not a science problem, it is a management problem. -- What is needed is the assumptions and methodologies used to process the raw data, in a historical fashion. E.g.: Person A tried Adjustment X7 on Data series A1234 in the following manner for output Z used in paper Author, Date. ; that didn't work so Person B tried Adjustment X8, and so forth. -- It is analogous to asking for a dump from a hard drive without a FAT. CRU and the AGW crowd will try and say: "hey, we fixed the CRU problem by releasing all of the raw data", knowing that the raw data isn't the problem.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2009 09:26 AM (Scxfk)

86 Imagine there are paragraph breaks where the -- are. Pixy and my proxy don't play nice.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2009 09:27 AM (Scxfk)

87 Yeah, I went over to LGF for the first time in months to see what Johnson had to say.

I view this from the perspective of an evangelical protestant type. Unlock knowledge, put it in public where all can see it and decide for themselves. Human nature is that people will decide for themselves, regardless, but a better informed decision is preferred.

The original reason that the Latin Vulgate version of the Bible was translated, was to put it in the common (vulgar) language of the people of Rome.

"Information wants to be free" -- some computer uber geek

Posted by: fluffy at November 30, 2009 09:28 AM (4Kl5M)

88 Fox is reporting that "other" nations are going to require the U.S. (and the West) to reduce carbon emissions by 80%.

Obama says we will get a "treaty".

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2009 09:33 AM (CDUiN)

89 BTW, Fox is claiming they will "debate" climaquidick during the nest hour and PAB is on today.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2009 09:34 AM (CDUiN)

90 Transparemcy. Science. Change. Hmmmmm.....

Posted by: dagny at November 30, 2009 09:36 AM (4tf69)

Obama says we will get a "treaty".

That's nice. If we don't comply with the "treaty" what is say, Chad, going to do about it?

Posted by: dagny at November 30, 2009 09:37 AM (4tf69)

92 The Jug-eared Jackass may "get a treaty". Hell, Al Bore "got a treaty".

That doesn't mean that the Senate will pass it.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2009 09:39 AM (CDUiN)

93 @81

Your comment has made me realize that the CRU emails were not hacked in order to expose the AGW fraud. They were hacked by Charles Johnson so he could then stake out a position as the AGW defender and increase traffic to his site.

Posted by: chad at November 30, 2009 09:43 AM (WNcvq)

94 This is my summary of the mess, each item is separate problem. I probably missed several as I am still working on my first cup of coffee. 1) A large amount of inconsistent, sporadic "data" collected through a wide variety of means from an unmanaged grid. 2) Said "data" is utilized through a variety of data rights agreements and not retained in consistent, referable repository. 3) The data is processed in a "black box" mode in which adjustments and assumptions are not documented or reproducible. 4) Processed data from sources with significant differences is then merged into time and geo-referenced series. 5) The time series are manipulated via a variety of statistical "methods" to project future results or show trends. 6) Peer review and IPCC process are controlled to stifle dissent and hide problems. 7) IPCC is an inherently political, not scientific organization. (#3 and #6 are the real killers, McIntrye has hammered them on #5, #1 and #7 are what they are and the limitations that they impose should be understood)

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2009 09:46 AM (5ddCw)

95 The best measurement we have in this AGW mess is the 97-0 procedural vote in the Democratic controlled US Senate against it.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2009 09:49 AM (Scxfk)

progressiveoverpeace,

Regarding the climate modelling, I always thought the climate models utilized some sort of finite element technique, and these were done by NASA or NOAA. IIRC, the models were based off the "nuclear winter" computer models. That, of itself, makes me discount the modelling. You notice the whole "global warming" thing started after the "nuclear winter" thing died off. I recall after the first Gulf War when Saddam burned all those oil wells, Carl Sagan declared that the global temperature would drop due to all the particulate in the atmosphere based on the nuclear winter models. The whole thing was a crock.

If the models turn out to only be some sort of statistical trickery I will be sorely pissed.

Posted by: Ken at November 30, 2009 09:52 AM (4JpPD)

97 Who created the models? What parameters did the "models" include? What were the variables? They need to start from scratch. Scratch as in how do you measure temperature when you had no thermometers?

Posted by: dagny at November 30, 2009 10:07 AM (4tf69)

98 Scratch as in how do you measure temperature when you had no thermometers?

LOL, if you are going back that far why not go all the way to....

what is temperature?

A: The absolute measure of the average molecular KE of the subject in question.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2009 10:15 AM (CDUiN)

It could be worse.

selrahC could be selling a swimsuit calendar.

Posted by: Zimriel at November 30, 2009 10:16 AM (9Sbz+)

100 #6 It is an utter disgrace how the American Institute of Architects has bent over backwards and begged LEED to hardcore prison fuck them with no reach around necessary. I'm appalled any trade organization could think it's a great idea to burn members' money promoting outside organizations, regulations, politicians, which DO NOTHING to add value to the profession. The current leadership has only sucedded in making it increasingly difficult and expensive to practice.

It's also fun to get all the emails proclaiming how brilliant Barry and the stimulus is as unemployment in the profession has increased to nearly 45% nationally. Yet the national leadership wonders why dues and membership are plummeting. Stupid Corbusian Cult cockholsters all of them.

Posted by: Blue Falcon in Bosotn at November 30, 2009 10:17 AM (ijjAe)

101 I thought they had some multi-model biased uber-model like TASC used to do for hurricanes. If all they have is a bunch of patched up FORTRAN and R scripts; then someone needs to start looking for the money they spent.

Posted by: Jean at November 30, 2009 10:18 AM (7K04W)

102 @98 But that would be like applying "science" or something. The methods they're using wouldn't get through a 7th grade science fair assessment.

Posted by: dagny at November 30, 2009 10:19 AM (4tf69)

103 Lessons to be learned:

1) Evil never sleeps
2) Stupid never dies

Posted by: Lee at November 30, 2009 10:22 AM (TcVyy)

104

Jean @ 101,

Agreed.

Posted by: Ken at November 30, 2009 10:22 AM (4JpPD)

105

We need to put this in simplistic rhyming cartoon slogans that fit on bumper stickers if you want leftists to understand.

There were no TMD'S! (Temperatures of mass destruction). Gore lied, economies died!

Posted by: Markus at November 30, 2009 10:23 AM (q4NLr)

106 If Gore weren't on their side there would be a daily tab running on how much money he has made out of this.

Posted by: dagny at November 30, 2009 10:26 AM (4tf69)

107 I've thought all along that this "climate science" is bunk and the fact that so many of them are in the non-hard sciences convinces me of that even more. I read a paper by two German physicists last year which hypothesized that there is no such physical mechanism in the world that supports a "greenhouse effect". In fact, the paper said that the opposite would be true: a cooling effect would occur; this is why glorified weatherman have no business making public policy based on phony science.

Posted by: slade at November 30, 2009 10:27 AM (XsHAM)

108

Obama says we will get a "treaty".

So that's what they're calling rape now days?

Posted by: harleycowboy at November 30, 2009 10:37 AM (JKGfQ)

109 The typical shitty "debate" on Fox with the liberal spewing nothing but lies and the supposed conservative doing a bad job putting her down.

Fox really gets some "winners" for the conservative side on these debates.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2009 10:42 AM (CDUiN)

110 Obama says we will get a treaty.

I hope that's a promise from Obaka, because that guarantees it'll never happen.

Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at November 30, 2009 10:42 AM (aC0uO)

111

Anyone else annoyed by the unit kilowatt hours? A watt is a joule per second. So hours are in the numerator, and seconds are in the denominator. Time per Time should cancel out.

Shame on you guys, that Flaming Skull uses up 400 kwhrs milliGores per day.

Posted by: Cincinnatus at November 30, 2009 11:03 AM (f4sLg)

112 Kilowatt-hour is more of a billing term than it is a scientific term.

Posted by: Vic at November 30, 2009 11:22 AM (CDUiN)

113 "other" nations are going to require the U.S.

Nauseating.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at November 30, 2009 11:31 AM (NtiET)

114 105 Heh.

We should just tell the Libs that they were right about GW all along, but by switching to reusable grocery bags, celebrating Earth Day and donating to the polar bear fund, they have collectively solved the problem.
Heck, maybe we could even give them all a "Certificate of Participation" and some milk and cookies before we tell them to shut their f*cking mouths about global warming and to never, ever bring it up again.

Posted by: lincolntf at November 30, 2009 11:36 AM (7XkqZ)

115 Heh, You guys are even more jaded about this than I am.

The CRU vow to release data, even if that data is worthless, became newsworthy. That of itself will be illuminating to many scientists and engineers in other fields that may have been kinda taking the Warmies word up to this point...because they were supposedly scientists too. People will ask question like "They were keeping their data secret? Huh?"

Most scientists and engineers don't have the time to keep track of much outside their current projects. Seriously, if you weren't paying much attention to this, it would have been easy over the past few years to give the AGW crowd a free pass and go along even if you didn't worship at the altar with fervor.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 30, 2009 11:40 AM (49ffz)

116

Only a small coterie can claim themselves to be "climate scientists", but their tools (software modeling, statistical analysis, data crunching) are now used in so many fields that literally millions of knowledgable people will be able to pore over the CRU code, kludges, hacks, and fudges .

It will thus be impossible for the AGW warmmongers to argue that laymen and non-climate researchers do not understand the methods of the Priesthood.

Posted by: effinayright at November 30, 2009 11:40 AM (0M2oB)

117 "Nobody designs bridges, tall buildings, or airplanes anymore based on hope, faith, or squishy theory."

And they don't build them based on 'consensus'.

Posted by: Socratease at November 30, 2009 11:52 AM (AtAEz)

118 Heh.

CRU: Alright, here are our data points. If you don't like them, we have others.

Posted by: OregonMuse at November 30, 2009 11:56 AM (6kI9E)

119

worked in engineering for many years an we used to have a saying about our product...

"we stand behind what we build, not under it"

Posted by: ugly kid joe at November 30, 2009 12:23 PM (qGR8d)

120

sorry, the above was based on this para

"Holland is of course absolutely right. Nobody designs bridges, tall buildings, or airplanes anymore based on hope, faith, or squishy theory. Engineers are the ultimate "reality based" community."

Posted by: ugly kid joe at November 30, 2009 12:25 PM (qGR8d)

121 "Regarding the climate modelling, I always thought the climate models utilized some sort of finite element technique"

No, what they apparently do is take arrays of measurements from sources of varying completeness and accuracy, which dimensionally can be from 1 to N, and then slice and dice them, add arbitrary clipping, filtering and scale factors, mash them all together, boil it down, excrete it and give us one number for a year for the whole Earth.

The finite element method is an energy method. It has a rigorous yet limited basis. You sum up all energy in a defined system into the potential energy functional and then use the first variation to find the inflection state, which in the real world always corresponds to the minimum energy state. That there is your answer, be it for thermal, fluid/gas, electromagnetic, kinematic or deformational energy. It works well because we humble engineers tend to solve for limited problems in controlled environments, for designed components and for relatively short periods of time. About the latter, we are mindful that even with a sound theoretical basis, the farther we get in time from the start conditions, the greater the potential accumulated errors. A century - it is to laugh.

Please don't confuse what they are doing with FEA. Our shit has to work. We know all about falsifiability. Its in our face and nobody buys that "90% of research is wrong and that's OK" platitude for engineering. MSimon dredged up a nice quote from Hendrik Tennekes. "Physicists dream of Nobel Prizes. Engineers dream of mishaps." Tennekes, formerly an aeronautical engineering prof, was, I believe, encouraged to leave his post as head of the Dutch Met office for failing to accept AGW orthodoxy.

Posted by: chuckR at November 30, 2009 12:35 PM (XLu7l)

122 Senator James Inhofe the ranking Republican on the Envirnment and Public Works Committee has announced an investigation into the world-wide fraud that is global-warming. It may be helpful to send letter of support to him in this regard, as the AGW charlatans, including Al Gore, need to be brought to book.

Watching Fat Albert take the Fifth on his involvement in AGW would be absolutely priceless. If the show comes off, it could truly rival Watergate. Please help out.

Posted by: Son of a Pig and a Monkey at November 30, 2009 12:52 PM (KsxrY)

123 You can't learn anything from fake data, other than about the faker.

Posted by: theCork at November 30, 2009 12:58 PM (ia9oR)

124 Maybe they can convince that PI who went dumpster diving for ACORN gold in California to fly over to England right quick and stake out the CRU's trash bins.........

Posted by: Teresa in Fort Worth, TX at November 30, 2009 01:09 PM (ZTa5j)

125 Its old.

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