And Thanks for Belligerent, Brainless Trolls

The other day Dave in Texas referenced the Jefferson Quote Caper. If you've never read it, it's worth a read. It's maximum pwnage of a troll, the best pwning of a troll I've ever witnessed. (Well... maybe Dave's Antarctica Now pwnage competes with it.) UPDATE [DiT]: Here's Antarctica Now.

The basic backstory is that Dave, to yank a troll's chains, quoted Thomas Jefferson, to reply to the troll's claims about free speech. The Jefferson quote Dave provided was "Free speech is overrated."

The troll -- Jersey, he called himself -- objected that this wasn't a real quote, demonstrating some true genius is solving this particular mystery.

Dave, very politely, insisted it was, and endeavored to help the troll find it online and in books.

It was, as Dave said about the pie chart email linked yesterday, the politeness and helpfulness on Dave's part that made it funny. No matter how angry the troll got about this "quote," Dave just kept his cool and tried to help him track it down, to prove to himself it was real.

Now, what happened was this: We were all kind of laughing about this, trying to keep it secret, trying to not let the troll know that Dave was just jerking his chains with what was obviously a joke. Commenters joined in and began creating their own "quotes" by famous people, even more ridiculous than Dave's.

I thought the joke was blown at that point. Now, surely, the troll "Jersey" must understand it's all a goof.

But he didn't. He kept demanding Dave provide citations for his Jefferson quote -- "Free speech is overrated" -- which Dave very politely and sweetly continued to do.

So: In this post, I collected up the beginnings of this exchange, because I thought it was so funny. And also, because I believed at this point, the joke was over, and obviously Jersey must now understand that Dave was just jerking him around.

That's what I thought.

But then Jersey popped into this thread, which is all about goofing on him for not getting it was a goof in the first place, at post 161, and continues hounding Dave for proof of the quote, in which Jefferson uses the oddly-modern word "overrated."

Dave just keeps sweetly trying to help him track it down and resolve this dispute to everyone's satisfaction.

So I posted again: collecting up the new arguments about the quote. Including Dave's assertion that the quote comes from the famous book of quotations, Stuff Jefferson Said, 3rd Edition.

You still can't find it Jersey?
Wow. I would have thought it would be pretty easy. I don't have an online reference, but if I get some time later today I'll see what I can find. I actually copied it out of one of my college history books, Stuff Jefferson Said, 3rd. edition. You might be able to find it on Amazon. Here, try "www.amazon.com" and search on "Stuff Jefferson Said".
I'll bet there's a newer version in publication now, so leave out "3rd edition."

And this time, I step in to "resolve" the issue. I claim I have myself consulted my own dog-eared copy of Stuff Jefferson Said (3rd Edition, of course, the most complete version), and that I have found the real Jefferson quote, which Dave must have garbled a bit:

"Of all the Necessities of a Prudent & Effective Government, the Virtue & Wisdom of the People is paramount. Free Speech is Nice & Everything, but really, it's No Big Shakes in the Greater Scheme of Things." -- Thomas Jefferson

Surely, this time, "Jersey" now understood that everyone was just goofing on him. "Overrated"? And now "No Great Shakes"? The joke was over; now I had made it obvious we were making stuff up.

But no, the joke is far from over. Jersey shows up in the second thread goofing on him for failing to get he was being goofed on -- to continue badgering Dave, this time for getting the quote so wrong. I offered him an even more absurd quote, and Jersey just didn't pick up on it -- the only thing that mattered to him now was that I had myself "proven" that Dave got the quote wrong, and that Jersey, therefore, was "right."

Dave attempts to apologize for leading Jersey astray:

I looked at my copy of Stuff Jefferson Said, and you're right, it wasn't a campaign speech in Weehawken. So I totally messed that up.
I was working from memory.

Jersey refuses his apology and mocks him further. I mean, Dave really kind of took liberties with the "real" quote, didn't he?

Sooooooooo, this is the actual quote.
"Of all the Necessities of a Prudent & Effective Government, the Virtue & Wisdom of the People is paramount. Free Speech is Nice & Everything, but really, it's No Big Shakes in the Greater Scheme of Things." -- Thomas Jefferson
Opposed to: "Free speech is overrated, but not overtly so".
And only after three days and over 100 postings, blasting me for just being able to understand Dave or where to find hs "quote."
Geeeez, Dave, wasn't your translation just a tad on the loose side? I mean, why not just edit and change it to this:
"Speech really, big shakes of things."

Dave apologizes again, and seeks forgiveness:

C'mon Jersey, you gotta admit, "overrated" and "it's No Big Shakes in the Greater Scheme of Things " are pretty close.
Cut me a little slack dude, I haven't read that in like, 25 years.

I apologized myself, and tried to calm Jersey down about Dave's "mistake:"

Jersey,
Hey, it happens. I appreciate your frustration. But sometimes it takes time to track down an exact quote.
I hope you're satisfied now, and this argument can end. Hopefully with no bad feelings on either side.
Like Thomas Jefferson said, "That's why God gave pencils erasers!"

By this point the entire site is now manufacturing quotes left and right and attributing them to sources of dubious authority.

And Jersey would still not comprehend that out of 100 people, 99 were in on a joke and he wasn't -- at least not for several hours later, when people just told him that these ridiculous quotes from Abraham Lincoln and James Madison and Aaron Burr might sort of all be just completely made up.

At that point he of course claimed he knew it all along. And he was, um, pwning us or something.

Posted by: Ace at 05:11 PM

Comments

1 what happened, can't access the site?

Posted by: curious at November 26, 2009 05:35 PM (p302b)

2 It's like Abe Lincoln once said:

Four Score and Seven Trolls Ago, I asked not what I could do for a troll, but what a troll could do for me.

Posted by: CoolCzech at November 26, 2009 05:35 PM (QECjC)

3 That old mother fucker. Ah, memories.

Posted by: Sortelli at November 26, 2009 05:41 PM (yQLtC)

4 Isn't there a video of Jefferson explicitly saying most of the stuff they say he said is pure crap?

Posted by: eman at November 26, 2009 05:43 PM (R484t)

5 Jesus, was that really almost 4 years ago?

Posted by: Jason at November 26, 2009 05:43 PM (v1RMv)

6 Jersey sounds like a typical Slashdot commenter. ("Slashdot: where the pugnaciously ignorant have a battle of wits with the aggressively stupid.")

Posted by: Raoul Ortega at November 26, 2009 05:43 PM (GUxTi)

7

Wow, ace had too much cooking sherry while preparing the stuffing.

I love it.

Posted by: Blazer at November 26, 2009 05:45 PM (+FzLa)

8 Isn't there a video of Jefferson explicitly saying most of the stuff they say he said is pure crap?

That's Sturgeon's Law as applied to Jefferson: " 90 % of everything Jefferson said is pure crap."

Posted by: Raoul Ortega at November 26, 2009 05:46 PM (GUxTi)

9 And this time, I step in to "resolve" the issue. I claim I have myself consulted my own dog-eared copy of Stuff Jefferson Said (3rd Edition, of course, the most complete version), and that I have found the real Jefferson quote, which Dave must have garbled a bit...

Dave's work stands up to peer-review!

Posted by: Ed Begley Jr. at November 26, 2009 05:48 PM (DtTM9)

10 Ah, the old 'you didn't pwn me, I pwned you' defense. Brilliant.

Posted by: gau at November 26, 2009 05:49 PM (n1uMU)

11 Damn trolls breaking the site on Thanksgiving.

Posted by: paranoidpyro at November 26, 2009 05:49 PM (t4syE)

Like Thomas Jefferson said, "That's why God gave pencils erasers!"

Sorry Ace, but you mangled that one. The exact quote was "That's why Ben Franklin invented White-Out!"

Jefferson was an agnostic at best, and I find your addition of his attribution of erasors to "God" to be of quite fallacious implications toward his views.

Posted by: Entropy at November 26, 2009 05:50 PM (cok/k)

13
I'd like to give thanks to Dum-Dum, he truly exemplifies what a leftist troll should strive to be.

I can picture him in his threadbare Captain America outfit in the pouring rain, mascara running down his cheeks, giving blowjobs for Chef Boyardee on a NYC streetcorner.

O.k., I think I'm gonna cry now.

Posted by: Blazer at November 26, 2009 05:51 PM (+FzLa)

14 I've read (and no, I don't have the link) that some people's minds are just not wired to "get" sarcasm. I wonder if Jersey is one of those people...

Posted by: Siergen at November 26, 2009 05:51 PM (TJQ10)

15 Besides, everyone knows that in the 18th century men wrote with quill pens.

Posted by: Entropy at November 26, 2009 05:52 PM (cok/k)

16 This is what happens when the NEA has been running the public school system for so long.

Posted by: logprof at November 26, 2009 05:52 PM (A+6fk)

What's wrong with making up quotes?

Like I said during the Burkina Faso Uprising of 1999, if the shoe fits, fish or cut bait.

Posted by: Sheriff Joe Biden at November 26, 2009 05:53 PM (A+6fk)

18 If Jefferson were alive today, he'd be really old.

Posted by: eman at November 26, 2009 05:54 PM (R484t)

19 Moss always grows on the north side of a 7-11.

Posted by: quite googleable at November 26, 2009 05:55 PM (EiH7n)

20 All you need is love
-Mao Tse Tung

Posted by: Anita Dunn at November 26, 2009 05:55 PM (DtTM9)

21 And seriously, who could forget Jefferson's frustrated outburst at his wife as he left to attened the final days of the Constitutional Convention that "We've got 99 amendments, but a wench's right to vote ain't one."

Posted by: paranoidpyro at November 26, 2009 05:56 PM (t4syE)

Rhianna?

I'd hit it like a frickin' pinata, baby.

Annuit coeptis.....

Posted by: Thomas Jefferson at November 26, 2009 05:56 PM (yVcTF)

If Jefferson were alive today, he'd be really old.

Not if his expidition to Florida to find the Fontis d'Aqua Vitae had succeeded, he wouldn't.

Posted by: Entropy at November 26, 2009 05:58 PM (cok/k)

24 Ace,

I would like a "walk down memory lane" this Thanksgiving Day, perhaps we can relive some of the best trolls in the history of Moron-ville?

Oh the memories.

Maybe we can even be thankful for another year without posts from SHE WHO SHALL NOT BY NAMED?

The only man capable of silencing the AoS comment section and bow us into submission is not a man at all... or is she?

Posted by: Sir Elliot at November 26, 2009 05:59 PM (DUNS7)

25
My favorite quote by Jefferson was the one where he said something about offramps.

200 hundred years before the first interstate was invented. Wrap your mind around that for a second. That guy was clairvoyant or something.

Posted by: Blazer at November 26, 2009 05:59 PM (+FzLa)

26 My favorite quote about free speech is "The best things in speech are free, or only cost a half-penny." Ben Franklin wrote that in The Federalist #86.

Posted by: Reiver at November 26, 2009 05:59 PM (h8OgN)

27 Imbeciles keep me in business.

Posted by: The Lace Wigs Guy at November 26, 2009 06:00 PM (g35qK)

28
Isn't there a video of Jefferson explicitly saying most of the stuff they say he said is pure crap?

Nawww, you're thinking of Teddy Roosevelt's vids after the Battle of Hastings.

Posted by: Dang Straights at November 26, 2009 06:01 PM (x++TB)

Rhianna?

I'd hit it like a frickin' pinata, baby.

Posted by: Thomas Jefferson at November 26, 2009 05:56 PM (yVcTF)

--No Big Shakes, yo.

Posted by: Chris Brown at November 26, 2009 06:01 PM (A+6fk)

30 That was some funny, funny stuff. Still is.

Posted by: Andy at November 26, 2009 06:02 PM (VMyjP)

31 I sent those Lewis and Clark guys out to go score me some hot black chicks, and all they got me was Sacajewea and the crabs.

Posted by: Thomas Jefferson at November 26, 2009 06:02 PM (yVcTF)

32 People like Jersey keep me in congress.

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at November 26, 2009 06:03 PM (g35qK)

33
Another favorite Jefferson quote of mine:

"France, I'm real happy for you and imma let you finish, but America had one of the best Revolutions ever.

Of All TIME !"

Posted by: Blazer at November 26, 2009 06:04 PM (+FzLa)

34 People like Jersey keep me rolling phat.

Posted by: Michael Mann at November 26, 2009 06:04 PM (g35qK)

35 Isn't there a video of Jefferson explicitly saying most of the stuff they say he said is pure crap?

Nawww, you're thinking of Teddy Roosevelt's vids after the Battle of Hastings.
Posted by: Dang Straights

Man, you are stupid. Those are fakes.

Posted by: eman at November 26, 2009 06:04 PM (R484t)

36 So you're all back for another beating eh?

Posted by: Jersey at November 26, 2009 06:06 PM (g35qK)

37 Ace, since we're taking a stroll down funny memory lane, how about reposting Antarctica Now, too?

For teh noobz.

Posted by: Andy at November 26, 2009 06:06 PM (VMyjP)

38 "They see me rollin', they hatin" - Paul Revere, in regard to the King's Regulars on having been detained in Lexington.

Posted by: Entropy at November 26, 2009 06:08 PM (cok/k)

39
Man, you are stupid. Those are fakes.

No way dude, I saw them on Youtube, they gotta be real.

Posted by: Dang Straights at November 26, 2009 06:08 PM (x++TB)

40 I read Daves' post and the comments yesterday and it had me in tears laughing. And 27b/6 was a jewel of a find.

Posted by: Corona at November 26, 2009 06:10 PM (+xghX)

In celebration of Thanksgiving, I give you this real quote from John Wayne:

"I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves."

Posted by: Alex's Cabin at November 26, 2009 06:11 PM (G8e6m)

42 Dang, (may I cal you Dang?),

Run them in slow motion. The fx jumps right out.

Posted by: eman at November 26, 2009 06:12 PM (R484t)

43 You can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.
- Mother Teresa

Posted by: Anita Dunn at November 26, 2009 06:13 PM (DtTM9)

44 No way dude, I saw them on Youtube, they gotta be real.

YouTube? Never heard of it.

Posted by: Charles Gibson at November 26, 2009 06:14 PM (g35qK)

Whenever her useless husband John was out of town, that hottie Abigail Adams sure liked using my watermill-powered vibrator invention. She broke two of them, and Paul Revere made them from solid pewter. I had to invent the backbrace because of her.

That wench was hotter than one of my stoves.

Posted by: Ben Franklin at November 26, 2009 06:15 PM (yVcTF)

46 36 So you're all back for another beating eh?
Posted by: Jersey at November 26, 2009 06:06 PM (g35qK)

What are you going to do? Bleed on us??

Posted by: CoolCzech at November 26, 2009 06:17 PM (QECjC)

Alex: I don't believe the Duke said that because he wouldn't have said the native Americans were selfish.

how 'bout this one "that'll be the day". Searchers

or this (that makes me swoon) "I never want to kiss you goodbye" Rio Grande

Posted by: kelley in virginia at November 26, 2009 06:17 PM (TEIZr)

48 Flap ears made up job numbers. Doin the same to america.

Posted by: Limo Driver at November 26, 2009 06:17 PM (mwn2O)

49
After watching Howdy Doody in 1947, my friend Joe Biden and I watched Thomas Jefferson on CBS from Washington make like and similar quotes. He was captivating and spoke to all 57 states including France.

Posted by: Fish at November 26, 2009 06:19 PM (6mfq0)

50 One hundred yards to the outhouse.

Posted by: Willie Make'it at November 26, 2009 06:34 PM (Bx2iK)

51 I keep hearing of this "Antarctica Now" post, but have never read it. Anyone know where it is?

Posted by: MrCaniac at November 26, 2009 06:41 PM (Vol3D)

At that point he of course claimed he knew it all along. And he was, um, pwning us or something.

hahaha, that's the same excuse ACORN used when they got caught on tape by Hannah and the other guy.

Posted by: a.k.a. the man with no name at November 26, 2009 06:43 PM (UUkhk)

Regarding the current Economy;

I Cant pour piss out of a boot, With directions on the heel.

Posted by: BHO at November 26, 2009 06:45 PM (Bx2iK)

54 I'll find Antarctica Now some other day.

Basically some guy posing as a vet -- but claiming to have fought in like nine different wars before being assigned to guard a military base in antarctica (?) -- got exposed for making it all up, when real vets started asking him questions.

Dave did this whole riff, based on Apocalypse Now, about this guy's war against the penguins and the walruses.

Posted by: ace at November 26, 2009 06:46 PM (jlvw3)

55

After Betsy Ross made the 13 state flag, we celebrated the event by my stripping her, wrapping her in the new flag, and fucking her for God and Country. Thank you Oprah.

Posted by: Fish at November 26, 2009 07:01 PM (6mfq0)

56 Ace,

At least he wasn't a chicken hawk like those Obama supporters that support the surge but won't enlist.

Only 1 way to fight global warming. Killing 1 penguin at a time.

Posted by: Sir Elliot at November 26, 2009 07:04 PM (DUNS7)

57 OT: From ClimateGate, the gift that keeps on giving, Steve McIntyre seems to have found the hidden decline.

Posted by: Andy at November 26, 2009 07:10 PM (VMyjP)

"Earth is merely the dusty, insignificant paperweight of mighty Jove."

-- Marcus Aurelius

Posted by: Julius Seizure at November 26, 2009 07:21 PM (B14pc)

59 Thomas Jefferson once asked Ben Franklin how he got all the chicks.
Ben replied "Chicks dig me cause I wear this fucking poncho. Picked it up in Boston."

Posted by: MPFS Stuffed w/Turkey at November 26, 2009 07:26 PM (PBGAP)

60 I can't read the site at the links, it's too W I D E

Posted by: Muskwa at November 26, 2009 07:29 PM (yK++o)

61 Well, like Paul said in his letter to the Romans. "Dude!!! Chill Out!!!"

Posted by: John at November 26, 2009 07:32 PM (n6ipG)

62 link to Antarctica Now post under name.

.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at November 26, 2009 07:34 PM (ruzrP)

63 because I'm a giver ..

... and I ran out of alcohol due to poor planning and a few extra unexpected dinner guests.

.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at November 26, 2009 07:37 PM (ruzrP)

64 Burkina Faso

They have really cool hats.

Posted by: trainer at November 26, 2009 07:39 PM (yCWYQ)

65
This has been a wonderful Thanksgiving. Instead of screwing the goose, I bumped nasties with the thawed turkey, and then my minority maid cooked the bird for dinner. The guests raved about the turkey and the dressing.

Posted by: Joe "Kingfish"Biden at November 26, 2009 07:41 PM (6mfq0)

66 Patrick Henry's "Give me Liberty or Give Me Death" was followed by "Ands I Gots to Get Paid".

Posted by: Dr. Spank at November 26, 2009 07:47 PM (muUqs)

67
Michelle and I thought about inviting some white folks in for the family Thanksgiving celebratory dinner, but decided against it and invited Margaret Cho and Carl Rove's maid Shanisha instead.

Posted by: B H Obama at November 26, 2009 07:49 PM (6mfq0)

68
The early pilgrims to America began celebrating Quanza before Thanksgiving was even a thought. Early entertainers Fitty Cent and Ton Loc sang and mumbled at the Jamestown party now known as Woodstock.

Posted by: Maxipad Waters, D, Cali at November 26, 2009 07:54 PM (6mfq0)

69 Sadly, one of the proudest moments of my life was when Drew cited to Stuff Alexthechick Said. The mere thought of it brings a tear to my eye.

Posted by: alexthechick at November 26, 2009 07:55 PM (bQ5xy)

70 Fuck. I thought I was being witty and insightful in my occasional comments. Now I realize I'm just Jersey.

Seriously, I wish I had been witness to this event, like a car accident on rewind.

That is an actual quote from Jefferson.

Posted by: Usful Ijit at November 26, 2009 08:02 PM (+8fSS)

71
Congratulations to President Barack Obama for his insightful phone call to the Premiere of France on this special day of Thanksgiving. Barack believes both France and America are the same with similar interests, therefore France gets to celebrate America's thanksgiving. It's that multiculturalism thing.

Posted by: Fish at November 26, 2009 08:08 PM (6mfq0)

72 66 Patrick Henry's "Give me Liberty or Give Me Death" was followed by "Ands I Gots to Get Paid".

I thought the quote was "Give me liberty or give me free health care. Actually, come to think of it, I kind of prefer the free health care."

Posted by: Brendan at November 26, 2009 08:13 PM (2jQGY)

73 I think Jefferson said that quote about free speech being overrated right after he beat John Adams in a demolition derby grudge match to determine whether the Federalists or Anti-Federalists would win the Stanley Cup once and for all.

That's what I read in A People's History of American Demolition Derbies anyway.

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Posted by: jason at November 26, 2009 09:08 PM (/N/+G)

76 Wasn't Brian Dennehy the editor of that book on Jefferson?

Posted by: Sir Elliot at November 26, 2009 09:11 PM (DUNS7)

77 That was a funny trot back in history and one of the reasons I have read this blog for the last 5 years. Cause you never know when funny shit is gonna break out on even the most innocuous of posts. I miss those days

Posted by: lance at November 26, 2009 09:23 PM (fjEXl)

78 Ah, 2006, just when the Democrats took the House and Senate and the country started going to shit. Then after 2 years of shit, 52 percent decided that it wasn't bad enough yet, and wah lah here we are, deep in shit.

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Posted by: meep at November 27, 2009 08:38 AM (RAoUK)

oh foo, i didn't realize it was in the comments.

Still, the Shit Jefferson Said is my fave goof on trolls. That was frickin hilarious.

Posted by: meep at November 27, 2009 08:40 AM (RAoUK)

It's not nice to take advantage of the mentally challenged.

(but it is fun if they're libtards)

Posted by: chuck in st paul at November 27, 2009 12:35 PM (adr25)

92 Isn't there a video of Jefferson explicitly saying most of the stuff they say he said is pure crap?

Posted by: eman at November 26, 2009 05:43 PM (R484t)

There was, but some doofus taped over it when FDR went on television after the 1929 stock market crashed.

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LOL!! If that idiot "Jersey" had just done a little research on his own instead of hounding Dave over a fabricated quote, he'd have come up with something that's pretty close, and authentic, to boot:

Mark Lloyd: Communications Diversity �czar� in the FCC. Wants government control of media and oversight of media content. Also happens to think freedom of speech is overrated:

�It should be clear by now that my focus here is not freedom of speech or the press,� he said. �This freedom is all too often an exaggeration. At the very least, blind references to freedom of speech or the press serve as a distraction from the critical examination of other communications policies.�

Good job on the troll thrashing!

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95 Ah yes, quoting with approval (and out of context) Jefferson ironically saying that "freedom of speech is overrated." That's a very conservative thing to do. You look down your nose at most freedoms, so you take a quote out of context to help justify your support of limitation of freedoms. You people really don't like the Bill of Rights, do you. Well, except for the Second Amendment and the Free Exercise Clause. The rest of it is just hippy nonsense, right? Continue your attempted assault on freedom, wingnuts.

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