1 From squish to Donk in one easy step.

2 I got your big tent right here!

3 Go Rubio.

Crist is a lying squish. He campaigned for porkulus and then claimed to never having endorsed it. He supported cap-and-trade and is now trying to back away. He claimed he didn't even know Obama was in Florida when his office was notified.

Then he appointed to the Senate George Lemieux, a stooge whose first act in Washington was to condemn Joe Wilson for calling Obama a liar.

He'd make Lindsey Graham or Olympia Snowe proud.

4

Let's see how her favorables are after another year of craptacular economic news.  As in:  One in eleven mortgages in the country are now in default.  CNBC caved today and admitted the actual unemployment rate is 17.5 percent. 

After the book tour, she should lay low for six months and just let Damian and the Thorns be themselves.

5 Crist has the racist vote locked up.  Just look at that marvelous pallor!

6 What the hell is wrong with the Republican party leaders?

Dede was hand picked...and jumped ship.

Our party's nominee in 2008 seriously considered flipping parties in 2004.

And now in an election that a conservative should be able to win, the party wants to run a squish who might also jump ship if the voters reject him?

7

So, the Arlen Specter trick? When you look like you are losing, switch sides.

 

8 Is he any relation to Jesus Crist?

9 Crist really bought into the Obama Craze. He blows with the wind.

Politicians tend to do that. But what do we say when he misjudged the winds entirely?

Can't even credit him with even having a cynical-but-steely understanding of what the public wants.

10 Yeah, but a lot of those who "liked" McCain were Dems and Dem-leaning Indies - they "liked" him, but they didn't "like-like" him, IYKWIMAITTYD.

11

�This is a man who can give an entire speech about the wars America is fighting and never use the word �victory,� except when he�s talking about his own campaign.

But when the cloud of rhetoric has passed, when the roar of the crowd fades away, when the stadium lights go out, and those Styrofoam Greek columns are hauled back to some studio lot�when that happens, what exactly is our opponent�s plan? What does he actually seek to accomplish after he�s done turning back the waters and healing the planet?

The answer � the answer is to make government bigger, and take more of your money, and give you more orders from Washington, and to reduce the strength of America in a dangerous world.

America needs more energy; our opponent is against producing it. Victory in Iraq is finally in sight, and he wants to forfeit.

Terrorist states are seeking nuclear weapons without delay; he wants to meet them without preconditions.

Al Qaida terrorists still plot to inflict catastrophic harm on America, and he�s worried that someone won�t read them their rights."

Sara Palin, 2008

Now you know why the left hates Sara Palin.  She was on to the vacuous community organizer from the get go.  Her and Rudy Giuliani can never be forgiven for calling Obama what he is.

12

What the hell is wrong with the Republican party leaders?

Poor word choice there, my friend.

13 you know I'm a big believer in that theory. The orignal sin of blasphemy against the New God.

14 If another big name "moderate" republican flips and either endorses a democrat or moves to the democrat party; you'll never get a "moderate" republican elected again. The purity movement would have proven itself correct.

15 He blows with the wind.

Hence the problems with moderates. They aren't reliable votes on anything. It isn't that they are moderate on this or that. They'll go along with anything. One day big government spending, next day small government tax cuts. It's schizophrenic.

16

Palin is going through Florida like "Crap through a Goose".

Nov.24th

Jacksonville

The Villages

Orlando

17 >>it's good that her favorables are rising<<

Umm, no. It's bad that her favorables are rising. She's unelectable, and the longer we keep our hopes pinned to her polarizing personality, the less time we'll have to find a Republican who can win in 2012.

18 Cherry picker!

19

Cherry picker!

Racist!

20 Helloooooooooooo Florida!  I'd just like to give a Hopenchange Stimulus Shout Out to my good friend Gov. Charley Crist.

He's the kind of Republican we can work with.  He's the kind of guy who can give a good reach arou...., uh, I mean, uh, you know, who can reach across the aisle.

And if he follows my good advice he'll be just as successful in his gubernatorial race as all the other governors we've helped to get re-elected.

Of course if he doesn't follow our advice and doesn't get through the primaries, well, we'd just ask that he take one for the team and endorse the Democrat candidate.  It's the patriotic thing to do.

That's just how we roll.

21 Allahpundit only pick happy posts? I must have missed something when I go to Hot Air since he's always given grief for finding a cloud in a bright spot. Eyore and all.

22 17 >>it's good that her favorables are rising<<

Umm, no. It's bad that her favorables are rising. She's unelectable, and the longer we keep our hopes pinned to her polarizing personality, the less time we'll have to find a Republican who can win in 2012.

Posted by: railwriter at November 19, 2009 05:59 PM (daRzV)

Nixon was unelectable after the 1960 campaign.

How high would Palin's favorables have to rise before you reconsider? Me, I think she's damaged goods, but I'm far from willing to write her off.

23 >>>Hence the problems with moderates. They aren't reliable votes on anything.

I know... but what people like me are counseling is better an unreliable vote than a reliable vote *against* you.

Not to say we shouldn't go for it on 4th down. As in the NFL -- going for it on fourth down is actually the optimum strategy a lot of the time, and most coaches refuse to go with the odds, due to faint-heartedness. BIll Bellichick goes for it on 4th down a lot -- and even he probably isn't doing it as often as statistics would suggest he should.

But... but... Yes, we need to go for it on makable fourth downs more often. Vote with our hopes, not our fears, and etc.

But we also have to keep in mind that 4th and 25 is a really good time to punt.

Punting meaning "go with a squish in a district that is squish or liberal-ish."

24 I bet that Crist will come out of the closet right after he announces he intends to run as a Democrat.

25

The orignal sin of blasphemy against the New God.

You guys are on to something there.  McCain could never bring himself to be the old bastard he really is when it came to Obama.  Palin had zero difficulty in pointing out that not only was the emperor naked, but that he was clueless, shifty and underendowed to boot.

I've have said again and again on this blog that the next candidate needs to realize who the enemies are and that no amount of kiss-kiss is going to bring the media, lefty academia, economic nitwits and Hollywood douches to their senses.  Enough. 

People tend to forget the following relexive corollary to the well known saying:  The friend of my enemy is my enemy. 

26 Railwriter,,, Spoken just like McCain ,Graham, Specter.... The party must go left !!!!11!!
Common sense is polarizing . Run away, run away.

27 Screw Crist!!  I sick of that Rino.  Bring on Rubio.

28 The fact that Palin's favorability is now close to 50% even after all the media based terrorist attacks that have been launched against her is a miracle.

More cowbell please?

29 Nixon? He didn't repeat his 1960 loss four years later, when he'd have lost again. His numbers were vastly better against JFK than Palin's numbers.

I like her. My wife likes her. I'd vote for her, if she were the nominee. I just hope like hell that we don't condemn ourselves to an ass-whipping in 2012 by nominating her.

How high would her approval ratings have to be? A helluva lot closer to 50% than they currently are.

30 Umm, no. It's bad that her favorables are rising. She's unelectable, and the longer we keep our hopes pinned to her polarizing personality, the less time we'll have to find a Republican who can win in 2012.

Posted by: railwriter at November 19, 2009 05:59 PM (daRzV)

As much as I like her -- and I really, really do -- I agree with you 100%.  She'll be a great asset to a real conservative, but the surest way to commit GOP suicide in 2012 would be to put her on the ticket, in either spot.  Anyone who doesn't think so has only been listening to the echo chamber and not the residents of the real world, many of whom feel a visceral dislike for her.

31 But we also have to keep in mind that 4th and 25 is a really good time to punt.

But 4th and whatever with the game clock at :20 and your team down? That's where we are at. With all almost lost and last chances dwindling, One yard or 50 yards; right now we still need that vote to be *right* when it counts.

Why we can't get Republicans to "go for it" given all is almost lost is beyond me.

32  Giuliani Palin 2012?

33 Put it this way: does every other person you know--plus some--claim that they like Palin and would like to see her as president? Because until that's the situation, she's not a good bet.

34 Chill on the polls, dude. It's too far out from both 2010 and 2012 to divine anything from the poll numbers. Think about it. After Obama's election just 12 short months ago, the MSM declared the end of  republicanism, based on polls and the big vote.

Now O is circling the drain. But, things change. If the economy lurches back on its own the recovery will be declared "the work of O" and he will surge back. The public is so fickle.

There's a whole class of folks who don't pay attention and have no freakin' clue. And that's MOST of them. Scary thing is, a lot of those people vote. And the wannabe cool folks in that group go along with Jon Stewart, stand up comics, nightly sit-coms, conan o'brien, etc., who all bend left. They wannebe cool so they laugh at Palin, vote for Pelosi and get hideous tattoos 'cause the TV tells them to.

35 I'd like to take a moment to thank ace for a clean post on Sarah Palin.  I can't say I have any complaints.

AllahPundit is notorious for cherry-picking only happy, upbeat news to report.

Okay, I have to find some windex for my monitor.  Minor complaint, that.

36 My favorite part of the latest round of Palinmania is that the DNC is now sending out press kits favorably quoting John McCain, Nicole Wallace, and Steve Schmidt.  That speaks volumes about how much of a threat McCain by himself posed to Teh Won.

37 Someone ask Michael Steele to contact us.

38 I'd like to take a moment to thank ace for a clean post on including a mention of Sarah Palin.  I can't say I have any complaints.

Nuts.  Just trying to alleviate the worry his voiced about bringing her up and I go and step on the main point of the post.  Go, Crist!  And don't let the door hit you!

39 I didn't say anything about "going left," you mouth-breather. I said Palin wasn't electable. Please try to keep up with the rest of the class.

40

She's unelectable, and the longer we keep our hopes pinned to her polarizing personality, the less time we'll have to find a Republican who can win in 2012.

Those who thought the Gipper polarizing said exactly the same thing.  Tell me what polarizing means in your world?  The guy in the White House got 52% percent of the vote.  Does that make him polarizing?  Was Dubya?  Bubba? 

Elections are supposed to be polarizing.  When one side is so clearly and objectively wrong in its policy choices, those same choices should be highlighted and hammered home.  Just think where we would be today if Ronald Reagan and/or Abraham Lincoln had chosen to be "uniters."

   

41 Crist, The Scuzz, and Specter aren't Republicans, they're opportunists. Whatever gets them elected is their coarse of action. McCain and Graham are Rinos, to a certain extent, but they at least have principles they believe in and follow. They are Republicans. We need to find out who is a Republican and who is an opportunist and vote accordingly.

42

The RNC & RNCC better hurry up with that Millions to Crist before he can switch ...ie spector & scuzzflave.

Steele, the man of linguinni, call your office

43 Go !!Sarah2012!!

You go gurrrrl!

44 You're equating Ronald Reagan's America--which was almost 30 years ago, and vastly different demographically and politically than today--with Sarah Palin's chances four years from now.

God help us.

45 In Florida, it's not allowed for a candidate who is registered as a Republican during a primary, to run as an independent afterwards. Rubio indicated that in an interview with Cavuto.

46  Giuliani Palin 2012?

How about Jesus and Meyer Kahane?

47 40 / Circa:  Yup. Heck the presidential vote is three years away. She needs to be in the mix.

48 Once again, why is it the social and fiscal cons are the ones tearing this party apart?  How many of them have gone 3rd party or Dem vs the number of RINOs that have switched parties or gone 3rd party or endorsed the Dem in a hissy fit?

49

Giuliani Palin 2012?

How about Jesus and Meyer Kahane?

A white jesus could nevah win after 'duh people' voted for black jesus. Duh.

50 Geez, if only we had an election sometime between now and 2012. That would be cool.

51 Railwriter,, Fuck off..
What gives you the insight to just proclaim Palin unelectable ?
 Ivy league sheepskin ?
Magic eight ball ?
Goat entrails ?

52 44 / railwriter: Are you saying she shouldn't even be tested in the primaries if she chooses to be?

53 39 I didn't say anything about "going left," you mouth-breather. I said Palin wasn't electable. Please try to keep up with the rest of the class.       IF this was immediately leading up to the elections of 2012,  I'd vote for Palin in a heartbeat and so would tens of millions of other people.  BUT this is only 2009 and we need to concentrate on matters at hand.  And that's winning back the House and Senate in 2010.

54 You need a True Conservative to fire up a 3rd ticket.

Lou Dobbs/Tim LeHaye, bankrolled by the Koch boys?

55

10 Yeah, but a lot of those who "liked" McCain were Dems and Dem-leaning Indies - they "liked" him, but they didn't "like-like" him

Then Dems who had a kinda-sorta crush on McLame promptly rape-raped him and voted for Obama.

56

i'm getting sick of some people in the republican party. if crist were to run as a democrat i would flip out. Why can't republicans lose gracefully in primaries?  What happened to party loyalty?

You lose, you endorse your party nominee, then you back him.  It's that frigging simple. If huckabee and Romney could endorse that colostomy bag that is john mccain, why can't other memebers  of the party do it.

i know that crist hasn't done it yet and may not, but i honestly think it appears that it is only acceptable to dump on your party when the conservatives win in the primaries. I think that is partially why ny 23 got so much attention. it was the only time in my memory where a conservative ran as the independent against the liberal republican.

57 Gaia's recent Death Panel ruling is bringing woman to the R side in droves. Palin is in a perfect position to further the exodus and gain additional loyal supporters. She'll be the nominee in 2012.
 

58

 She'll be a great asset to a real conservative, but the surest way to commit GOP suicide in 2012 would be to put her on the ticket, in either spot.  Anyone who doesn't think so has only been listening to the echo chamber and not the residents of the real world, many of whom feel a visceral dislike for her.

We'll see. If she keeps reaching people directly with Facebook, her book and whatever else she does, she may have a chance to convince people she'd be a good candidate. Or she could fall on her face. I don't think it's over yet!

59 Sooo, looking from this distance(too far to waste ammo) something like Oblabla-Mittens-Palin contest,  for a 70% turnout(Donks short of last contest on illegals, students, laborers, and yes, blacks).   GOP comes in third, say 22-24% of total, strong on both left coasts. 

60

Why on earth is the Obama crowd so afraid of Sarah Palin ?  It is absolutely amazing !

http://bit.ly/HKJSM

 

61

48 Once again, why is it the social and fiscal cons are the ones tearing this party apart?  How many of them have gone 3rd party or Dem vs the number of RINOs that have switched parties or gone 3rd party or endorsed the Dem in a hissy fit?

 

 

You're John McCain's sock, aren't you.

62 51  I live in one of the most lock-step, boneheaded librul/commie places in the country.  My fear is that, while many of these people may be so *over* Obama and his nonsense by then that they would likely stay home on election day, having Palin on the GOP ticket would very probably inspire a lot of them to come out specifically to vote against her.  Their hatred blazes with the heat of 1,000 suns.  It really does.

63 If she's tested in the primaries, you can be sure that states with open primaries--like my own Virginia--will find Democrats drooling at the chance to get her to the big show---and then turn out in hordes to snuff her at the end. I did that two times with the Right Reverend Jesse Jackson back in the day during primaries, just to futz with their side of the ledger. Anybody know a Dem neighbor who voted for McCain in the primaries? Yep, thought so.

I hope she doesn't run. If she does, I hope her support collapses early, because I think she'd get a drubbing. If she were the nominee, as I said earlier, I'd support her, but I'd be amazed that the GOP had lost its senses enough to nominate someone who can't win.

64 So that allahpuke dude really must not like Palin, but still can't help himself using her name in just about every post he writes.

65 I'd be amazed that the GOP had lost its senses enough to nominate someone who can't win AGAIN.

fify

66

8 Is he any relation to Jesus Crist?

Jesus Crist from Juarez?  I think he's a brother-in-law.

67 Posted by: Happy Democratic Party Strategist at November 19, 2009 06:21 PM (RdKK

Boy, erg just never goes away, does it?

68 6 What the hell is wrong with the Republican party leaders?

Dede was hand picked...and jumped ship.

Our party's nominee in 2008 seriously considered flipping parties in 2004.

And now in an election that a conservative should be able to win, the party wants to run a squish who might also jump ship if the voters reject him?

Posted by: 18-1 at November 19, 2009 05:53 PM (7BU4a)

Simply: It's no fun being a Republican politician.  Democrats get to take over things, run things, attempt to make the world better.  The fact that it doesn't, doesn't matter.

People like Barney Frank and Joe Biden are considered experts even though they've failed at everything.  They get the added benefit of insulation by the MSM.  Even FoxNews doesn't cover for Republican corruption.  On the contrary, conservatives and Republicans are far too eager to throw inconvenient people under the bus.

Liberals get to dole out money to their friends.  Legally.  They are considered important in their peer group, rock stars.  Republican politicians are viewed by their base as public servants.  What fun is that?  It's good to be the king, but it sucks deferring to the people.

69

Punting meaning "go with a squish in a district that is squish or liberal-ish."

The problem is that our squishes tend to get more liberal, while their squishes tend to get more liberal.

70
...many of whom feel a visceral dislike for her.
That would be democrats, no? We sure wouldn't want to nominate someone they dislike! Better to stick with a bass playing cracker who says getting a guitar for Christmas saved his life. Or a Governor elected to office by the same folks who elected Jesse "the Body" Ventura. Or some weak wristed Rino like Mitt or Jindal. Maybe McCain would run again. Or Newt could lead us back to teh promised land. Hey, Lindsey sure looked good yesterday. What is he doing in 2012? No visceral dislike of those dwarfs, is there?
I want  a full-on Bastard who will not go along to get along. Someone strong enough to pull a wave of congressmen into office who will shut down the NEA, NPR, numerous departments, untold programs and prosecute criminals like Frank and Dodd. The only names that come to mind are Palin, Bolton and Cheney.

71 Can anyone spot the concern troll?

72 Desdemona is a ho-bag!!!1!

73 I agree that Palin can't win as things stand.  But the more appearances she makes where she's likable, and the more she speaks common sense on Facebook, the more that'll change.  We don't know what kind of massive frakkups Obama's going to perpetrate between now and 2012 (or even 2010, for that matter).

Otherwise people like railwriter need to explain why the DNC is spending valuable money to attack an unemployed housewife on a book tour.  The DNC isn't stupid like the RNC: they never trusted Arlen Spectre for a second and they're running a primary challenger against him.  So clearly they believe she's a real threat even now.

Regarding Crist, he's not the next Scuzzy, he's the next Spectre.  He'll do anything to hold office, and it's embarrassing to watch at times.

74 railwriter:  ...but I'd be amazed that the GOP had lost its senses enough to nominate someone who can't win.

Heh.  Two words for you dude:  John McCain.

(it's one word for Joe Biden, I guess)

75 Great polls. But, Kos polls are about as reliable and trustworthy as an Obama campaign promise. Example: Kos had Corzine winning by 3 (so, off 9) and only had McDonnell winning Virginia by 10 (off .

76 IMHO, by the time 2012 rolls around anyone with a message of fiscal conservatism, strong national security, supporting the military, and a definite will to control our borders and deal with the illegals, is going to win the election.  Simple as that.  If it's Sarah Palin that we nominate, she'll win.

77 It appears a bunch of Allahpuds leg humpers are now here en masse.

FYI, Ace doesn't like his slacks soiled.

78

Let me rephrase my earlier post. Kos polls are to accuracy and reliability as erg is to logic and reasoning.

79 Can a conservative win the repub primaries as they are set up?

80 Both Rubio and Crist are bad news.  If you lived here in FL, you wouldn't want either of them in office.  Add in the "kingmaker" Greer to the mix, and you could shovel the corruption and B.S. into your garden.  (Too bad it would kill the tomatoes, though...)

81 Crist is a defacto liberal democrat, not even a squish.  He makes past FL democrat governors Lawton Chiles and Bob Graham look like Genghis Khan.

82 >>>I agree that Palin can't win as things stand. But the more appearances she makes where she's likable, and the more she speaks common sense on Facebook, the more that'll change.

Maybe but remember Dan Quayle did a lot to repair his image, but it wasn't enough. They really did Quaylize Palin.

I am a Palin-skeptic. I am open to her, but I am worried that she is currently unelectable and so damaged she won't be able to repair.

I support her efforts and am willing to change my mind.

83  Crist is a defacto liberal democrat, not even a squish.  He makes past FL democrat governors Lawton Chiles and Bob Graham look like Genghis Khan.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 19, 2009 06:43 PM (ii3ri)

And yet, the NRSC thinks he's dreamy. What's up with that?

84 I heard erg likes kids, if you know what I mean. I don't have proof of that but if true he should thrown in jail. Screwing kids is wrong and erg should stop.

85

heard erg likes kids, if you know what I mean. I don't have proof of that but if true he should thrown in jail. Screwing kids is wrong and erg should stop.

This from 'Dr. Spank'

86 Everyone I know likes her and would vote for her in a minute. Well there still is that one 23 yr old receptionist in the office that still likes him but she doesn't count.

87

You have to understand the crowd effect in these polls.  it is socially unacceptable to not like Obama  thus his polls numbers appear to be higher than they are as people tell pollester they like him not his policies.   At the same time the media has made it socially unacceptable to like Palin.  thus people will say they LIKE her policies but not her to pollesters. 

 

However elections tend to show that the socially unacceptable does not hold sway once in the voting booth and people opionions line up with policies when they cast their vote.

88 I don't need to explain anything, Ian, but because you mention it, I'll answer your question with a few of my own.

What is the DNC "spending to attack her?" I'll bet you've got a figure close to hand. I haven't heard them sounding like they need to; why would they, when the chatterati will do their work for them?

Do you think she'd win if she was the GOP nominee? No prevarication, no explanation. Do you, really?

Would you agree that Democrats and independents who don't like her dislike her for who she is rather than what her policy positions are? I think so. Ask one; ask your nearest Democratic friend what they think of Palin, and see if one of them--a single one--cites her position on anything. See, she could change her political views, but she can't change who she is, and that's what they hate. Don't ask me why, but that's the death-knell for Sarah Palin.

Oh, and DNC money being "valuable?" Have you seen any indication from the DNC that they're short of lucre?

89 A caveat: I've seen just enough politics to know that the incumbent can preside over enough greased shit on ballbearings that Alfred E. Neuman could win, going away.

I'm just betting that The One's mistakes aren't going to be that screwed. Even then, it's a close-run thing, with Palin or anyone else sounding remotely conservative. The sheep need their free stuff, and they'll keep Santa in business unless it's really, really, really fucked up.

90 Palin is unelectable now but who isn't? McCain v. Obama today, who wins?

91

We're a long way from 2012. Reagan was unelectable until there was Carter. Giuliani was unelectable until Dinkins. The last thing the electorate will want in 2012 is an elitist or a wonk.

Most of Sarah Palin's public image is a product of media slander, incompetent McCain staffers, and her own rookie miscues. She has almost three years to rehabilitate that image, and this book tour is only her first step. 

92 That's a damn good question. I'm sure I don't have a good answer.

93

But I don't know if I trust this stuff -- after all, AllahPundit is notorious for cherry-picking only happy, upbeat news to report.

It is this kind of delightful understatement that keeps me coming back. Best Blog Ever.

94

I believe Palin is setting her self up to be more of a King maker than to actually be king.

Things can change a lot in 2 years though.It would not surprise me to see her run.If she sticks to her message and does'nt allow it to be diluted I believe she would do well in a national election.

 

95

"But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or even a reform, not even in the State Senate."

I don't think I can vote for a woman who thinks Obama wrote his books. Unless she knowingly avoided the word 'wrote'. Hmmm.

96

Maybe but remember Dan Quayle did a lot to repair his image, but it wasn't enough. They really did Quaylize Palin.

Palin is young and wet behind the ears.

In retrospect, unhitching herself from the McCain wagon may be the best thing she ever did. Quayle unfortunately *did* get hitched to Bush the Elder, and went down in flames with him. I think he also decided "fuck this" and went home to retire early.

 

97 82 >>>I agree that Palin can't win as things stand. But the more appearances she makes where she's likable, and the more she speaks common sense on Facebook, the more that'll change.

Maybe but remember Dan Quayle did a lot to repair his image, but it wasn't enough. They really did Quaylize Palin.

I am a Palin-skeptic. I am open to her, but I am worried that she is currently unelectable and so damaged she won't be able to repair.

I support her efforts and am willing to change my mind.

Posted by: ace at November 19, 2009 06:43 PM

 

 

 

Whatever.  I still think it's way too early to postulate on 2012.  Too many "things" (another 9/11?) can happen between now and then.  What Sarah is doing out there as the predominat conservative is getting our message out now.  And I know she's not alone in this endeavor i.e.:  Michelle Bachmann, Liz Cheney, talk-radio hosts, etc.  But she has the spotlight NOW, and as far as I'm concerned, she's doing a hell of a good job.  

98 So, what is the offical office pool on when Kos changes his mind and backtracks from Crist running on a Democrat? I'd like June 10, 2010 please.

99 I'll tell you who ought to have gotten into politics--Marilyn Quayle. That chick was sharp, sharp as a tack.

100

Can a conservative win the repub primaries as they are set up?

Unfortunately, I think not, they are too early, front loaded, and worst of all "open" to political sabotage. The GOP must change this.

101 I believe Palin is setting her self up to be more of a King maker than to actually be king.

That is my fervent hope and, as I see it, the best case scenario.  I just know far too many people who took an instant, insupportable, uncomprehending, gut-level aversion to her, the second she got on the national radar.  I know moderate Dems who would easily vote against Obama, but not if they had to vote for Palin.

Because of that, I don't believe that any amount of exposure or rational appeal will alter the fact that she will be a huge GOTV tool for anyone running against her.  It's sad and I don't like it, but it's what I'm seeing.  Here on the ground in lala land.

102

I've said it before and I'll say it again: elections are always referendums on the incumbent. If by some quirk of fate Keynesian economics and pump priming and massive entitlement programs cause prosperity for the first time in the history of the world, then we will lose in 2012 no matter who we run.

However, if unemployment is high, and the economy is sluggish, and the deficits continue to be sky high, and (depending on the healthcare bill) people are getting their first taste of socialized healthcare, then we will win. That's what the issue is, and it should not be as hard as it is, what with McCain completely concedeing the economic argument to the Dems last year.

I think a lot of this is that people who think they are free marketeers, people who think they believe in the power of the private sector, people who think they know that the government creates problems, these people don't really believe that in their bones. They are scared to death that Obamanomics will actually work, and that if we stake out a strong position, if we make strong predictions, then we will look like fools in 2012.

There is no need to fear. The reputation Keynsianism enjoys is entirely a product of the conflation of the New Deal with the immense contracts for the American defense industry, steel, chemicals, etc. caused by WWII. The New Deal was an abject failure. Obamanomics will be an abject failure.

We need to start laying the groundwork for a conservative counterrevolution. There has not been a conservative President and a conservative Congress seated simultaneously since the 20s. The Dems make their case. They just attack the Republicans and then the power falls into their lap. Then they do the things they want to do. I want to do that. I'm sick and tired of watching my freedom get traded away piece by piece. I want it stopped. Stop compromising with them, they never compromise with us. More importantly, some things are not up for compromise. My freedom is not up for majority vote. We are at a point in this country where I don't feel much love at all for my government or for fully half my fellow citizens. Well meaning fools will ruin us all, and I'm sick of me and mine picking up the mess. That's why I like Sarah. She doesn't whine, she doesn't make excuses. She handles shit. You have no idea how much I want a President I can ignore for a week in safety. Every day I flip on the monitor wondering what Barry did today. I want to be able to safely ignore my government. That's what the American Dream is.

When the hell did we lose that?

103 But we also have to keep in mind that 4th and 25 is a really good time to punt.

Punting meaning "go with a squish in a district that is squish or liberal-ish."

Oh I agree, for sure. But it seems like - to continue the metaphor - that the GOP/squishes are too willing to punt on first down.

104 Peaches--your political surroundings don't sound that different from mine. If you don't mind my asking, what state do you live in?

105

But we also have to keep in mind that 4th and 25 is a really good time to punt.

Screw that, Brady, run the crossing route to Moss.

106 I just hope Sarah does not peak to early

107 Why do bloggers in New York and DC hate Sarah Palin?

108 Dude, I'm in Venice, California -- where the debris meets the sea

109

Somebody was saying the other day that there are really only two themes in politics. "It's a Brand New Day" versus "Tried, Tested, and Reliable".

The public rolled the dice on "Brand New Day" with Obama. If they get sick of him they are likely to turn to the second option rather than try the first again. And Palin is not going to be that second option.

110 "She's unelectable,"

You just cannot flat out say that.

She's not going to lose any state McCain won for starters.

That means only Indiana, North Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, Michigan and Florida need be switched.  That is about 100 electoral votes.

Other than Michigan, those are all slightly GOP leaning states.  The economy is sooo bad in Michigan (and will certainly be in 2012) that Michigan is definitely in play.

This is assuming O keeps all his other states (New Hampshire, PA and Colorado,  I'm looking at you).

She does not have to get any votes in New England (except maybe New Hampshire) or the West Coast to win.

She can make it a race.  She is no weaker than any other leading contenders who all have their own (but different) weaknesses.  I'm not saying its a lock but it is certainly doable.

Plus, didn't we do that electable bit in 2008 with McCain?  Why don't we nominate who we want and let the chips fall.

111

There is one continuos point here at the AOSHQ that drives me nuts: the argument that if all the Republican primaries were closed John McCain never would of won the 2008 nomination. Pop quiz: guess who won the most closed primaries on Super Tuesday?

I'll wait...............

112 Here on the ground in lala land.

Posted by: Peaches at November 19, 2009 06:59 PM (9Wv2j)

Kalifornia ain't gonna vote for the republican anyway, so I do not give a flying damn what idiot Kalifornia democrats think. The popular vote don't count.

113 "Oh I agree, for sure. But it seems like - to continue the metaphor - that the GOP/squishes are too willing to punt on first down."

I'll continue the metaphor further . . .

They will punt on first down with less than 2 minutes left in the game up by 2 points with the opposition having no timeouts left so the sports media doesn't call them racist or mean for trying to win the game.

114

"I know moderate Dems who would easily vote against Obama, but not if they had to vote for Palin."

 

Trust me, after 4 years of the odumbass, people will be ready to shitcan  him

115 Palin has no shot at the presidency.  She is strictly cabinet material.

116 And I don't want her to be president.  I want her to bulldog the rollback of this Congress' ruinous legislation.

117 She's not going to lose any state McCain won for starters.

That means only Indiana, North Carolina, Virginia, Ohio, Michigan and Florida need be switched.  That is about 100 electoral votes.

That was before they had the "quitter" label to fling at her.  And don't think they won't.  And don't think it won't be a deciding factor for the fence-sitters.

118 #115 just like they won't have Nixon to kick around anymore and Clinton was surely not going to be reelected after 1994.

119 Key question: who can debate Obama on camera into the ground and be inspiring at the same time?  That's the next president.

120

Yes, we need to go for it on makable fourth downs more often. Vote with our hopes, not our fears, and etc.

But we also have to keep in mind that 4th and 25 is a really good time to punt.

Punting meaning "go with a squish in a district that is squish or liberal-ish."

 

Yes, but you'd be hard pressed to name too many instances where the Dems won a race because the GOP candidate was too right wing. The Dems have the big majorities they do because they've picked up so many seats in solid Republican country. The GOP is not in trouble for leaning too far right, it's in trouble for leaning too far left. Catering more to squishes only adds fuel to the fire.

121 Just Another Poster at November 19, 2009 07:06 PM (NgoAe)

And then they'll flip off the fans and blame -them- for the loss.

122 >>>Punting meaning "go with a squish in a district that is squish or liberal-ish."

I imagine that we can find similar statements from the mouths of such notable Republican leaders of the past such as Hugh Scott, Everett Dirksen, John Rhodes, and Bob Michel.  What did all these men have in common?  They were all Minority Leaders of their respective houses of Congress during their period of leadership. 

An unreliable vote is an enemy vote, period.  They will always cast that vote against you on the most divisive, most visible, and most critical issues.  Make 'em earn their way up the ladder in the other party for a change.  After all, it seems to be working really well for our old buddy Arlen. 

The Reagan Revolution of the �80's was the culmination of about 25 years of hard work by the Russell Kirk's and the Bill Buckley's and the Young Americans for Freedom.  You squishes up in the Northeast managed to p*ss away a coalition that won 49 states, including the entire Northeast, 25 years ago this month, in less than a generation.  Why in h*ll should anybody take advice from a group with that kind of track record, except to note your screwups (NY-23, anyone?) and do the opposite?

We don't need another Reagan.  We need a new Kirk, a new Buckley, and a whole bunch of Americans for Freedom.  Of course, that means rolling up your sleeves and getting your hands dirty at the lowest levels of retail politics.  Not a very appealing thought for our modern day punditocracy, unfortunately.  

123 Plus, didn't we do that electable bit in 2008 with McCain?  Why don't we nominate who we want and let the chips fall.

Posted by: Bob from Ohio at November 19, 2009 07:04 PM

 

 

'Zactly!  No more fucking squishies.

124

guess who won the most closed primaries on Super Tuesday?

I dream of a Super Tuesday that isn't people rallying around the front runner the less conservative states have chosen.

125 44

Actually, I just bought a dozen vintage LOOK! magazines from the 60s, and it's pretty amazing how virtually identical the news is, maybe a little tamer in terms of war coverage. Some asshole ripped out the notorious Frank Church article CONSPIRACY USA The frightened far right and how it operates, and I would love to read the original article. Maybe someone here has suggestions. But I thought about posting The Radical Right Invades the GOP.

126

Peaches and railwriter are correct--for now. Sarah Palin, for now, is unelectable. As wretched as Cali is, we still have a lot of votes out here, as do many other states where Sarah Palin polls lower than doggy doo.

That said:

1. 2012 is in political terms a long way away.

2. She's realtively young, it's not like waiting for 2016 would end her chances, unlike, say, Hillary Cankles (I am still betting sooner or later as Jugears Jimmuh in mulattoface tanks, she will bolt and mount a primary challenge in 2012--cf. Ted Kennedy to Jimmuh Cartur in 1980)

3. She *is* doing the right thing, working for other real Republican candidates, raising money, earning favors and building street cred.

127

Dude, I'm in Venice, California -- where the debris meets the sea

Like Santa Cruz up here in the north, just a neutron bomb would fix it. (You should evacuate beforehand, of course)

128 #122 Damn that is some good stuff.  This line is just brutal:

"You squishes up in the Northeast managed to p*ss away a coalition that won 49 states, including the entire Northeast, . . .  Why in h*ll should anybody take advice from a group with that kind of track record,"

129 126

That's what I'd give hard cash to see--a bunch of really plugged-in Dem fixers whispering loyalty into Hillary's ear. I want a rematch. I don't think she does--I think she's accepted that it's just not in the cards--but boy howdy, I'd love to see her take one more shot at him. After being snubbed by him? Marginalized? Embarrassed by having her portfolio assumed?

That, friends, would be good television.

130 Curmudgeon, you know exactly what I'm talking about.  If I could afford to evacuate to some place like Texas, I would already be gone. 

131 #126 "As wretched as Cali . . ."

I've lost all faith here, just had a discussion with co-workers and they just heard about CA taking 10% more pay.  they thought it was a full 10% of base income, when they found it was 10% of what they currently took, the response was oh, thats ok, thats not bad then.

I was like, what the hell!!!  No wonder the politicians do what they please, too many people that don't give a shit.

132 77 It appears a bunch of Allahpuds leg humpers are now here en masse.

FYI, Ace doesn't like his slacks soiled.         My thoughts too.  Either a bunch of Allahpundites or screaming east/west coast prissies from LGF.

133 >>>Yes, but you'd be hard pressed to name too many instances where the Dems won a race because the GOP candidate was too right wing.

Rick Santorum.

134 And I mean "too right wing for purple Pennsylania," not too right wing for my liking.

Santorum was considered in danger in every race due to this.

135 My thoughts too.  Either a bunch of Allahpundites or screaming east/west coast prissies from LGF. Posted by: Iamnotanalcoholic

Way to build a coalition there. Do you get many people signing up for that abuse?

136 ace, that's a 2 term senator, i.e. in DC for 12 years.  Not the best of examples.  He lost in a bad GOP year to a another politician with name recognition, I'm not buying the too Conservative part, wasn't the base pissed that he supported Specter?

137 what i cannot accept is that, unlike every other competitive endeavor in the universe, where there are multiple effective strategies, some of which may be appropriate in one case and inappropriate in another, you are seriously contending that in all political contests, the correct winning strategy is always to go to the right.

This is less an objection about politics and more a meta objection that no other contest works by such simple and uniform rules.

This is why I have analogized guys like you to people who say "Blitz on every down." It cannot be that blitzing is *always* the right strategy.

138 and they'll keep Santa in business unless it's really, really, really fucked up.

So we're NOT "really, really, really fucked up" now eh?  From my POV, we're about one major policy boondoggle away from sending the country into a depression, and the Democrats have two or three major initiatives that could do that on the table.

We really are at the edge of the abyss and looking down.  Its time to take a step back

139 I think the Blitzkrieg was very successful.

140 It cannot be that blitzing is *always* the right strategy.

No, but it would sure be nice if we tried it once during the game.

141 This is why I have analogized guys like you to people who say "Blitz on every down." It cannot be that blitzing is *always* the right strategy.

Posted by: ace at November 19, 2009 07:30 PM (jlvw3)

The deuce you say.

142 >>>ace, that's a 2 term senator, i.e. in DC for 12 years. Not the best of examples. He lost in a bad GOP year to a another politician with name recognition, I'm not buying the too Conservative part, wasn't the base pissed that he supported Specter?

Weak, man. Weak. It's a bad example because he got re-elected once before? Come on.

143 No, we're not really fucked up. There's plenty of chasm left to explore as we scream. Buy Class I railroads on the way up.

On another note: is LL Cool J narrating Gary Sinise's "WWII in High Definition" as a Tuskegee Airman?

Will wonders never cease?

144 So success is no indicator of success?

145 McCain didn't get "creamed." Dukakis got creamed. Mondale got creamed. McCain was just beaten.

146

An important consideration (often enough overlooked) on whether to "go for it" on fourth down is, "Where You Are On The Field".  In fact, interesting that Bellychick was brought up in this regard, since he obviously forgot this important factor recently.

It's more than how many yards you have to go.  Fourth and one on your own five is a lot different than fourth and one on your opponent's - well - anything.

147 Yes, because he won two elections.  Did he move to the Right from where he was the first two elections? 

He was marked as dead after the uncontested primary because it was perceived that the base left him which the general election results bore out.  This is another example of a Republican making a squishy move that pissed off the base (i.e. Specter support).

Would he have won anyways, probably not, but he had no chance when the Right gave him the middle finger.

148 McCain didn't get "creamed." Dukakis got creamed. Mondale got creamed. McCain was just did everything in his power to ensure that he'd be beaten.

fify

149 Why no Hasan stories today? There's some good shit out there.

150 If Rasmussen's Poll is right, Palin is third, behind Huckabee and Romney. Considering that Huck and Romney both seem to be getting a boost from the same type of voters, namely religious repubs, there is a real possiblility that Huck and Romney would fight it out in the primary in '12. If they pick off each other, arguing that the other is somehow not true to their beliefs, they're liable to alienate supporters who don't care about such social concerns.

Meanwhile Palin seems to be focusing her criticisms at Obama and stressing her conservative principles. If she keeps that up and doesn't belittle herself by fighting with Huck or Rom, she very well might pull a Kerry and take the nomination.

As for the Presidential election, at this point it seems likely that any conservative, anti-tax/anti-spend candidate could flatten Obama.

The real question here is who will be Obama's running-mate? Plugs is obviously gone in '12, but considering Obama's propensity to drive that bus of his over everyone who makes him look bad, who would want to risk their career by running with him? I mean if Obama loses, and he will, who in the Democrat Party/media is going to blame the Messiah?

151

 vae victus at November 19, 2009 06:55 PM (oi4Yx)

 

She is going to be kingmaker to show the elites her power;  then she will be king as those she put into office are called  into cash their markers for her in 2012.  It's called doing an end around the GOP elite established in DC>  She gets outsiders conservatives elected in 2010.  They in turn help her in thier states during the primary and general. 

 

She leads so she can follow

 

152 Peaches at November 19, 2009 07:37 PM (9Wv2j)

I haven't creamed in nearly 30 years.

153 152 Peaches at November 19, 2009 07:37 PM (9Wv2j)

I haven't creamed in nearly 30 year

Yes you have, it just comes out as dust.

154 In spite of all the talk, Romney is a non-starter.  RomneyCare == ObamaCare.  Any opponents will club him to death with that.

Last time I looked at Huckabee, the guy never met a tax he couldn't raise.

155 The real question here is who will be Obama's running-mate?

Oprah?

156 Charles Gibson at November 19, 2009 07:52 PM (9Wv2j)

You never even heard her.

157 Weak, man. Weak. It's a bad example because he got re-elected once before? Come on.

Posted by: ace at November 19, 2009 07:33 PM (jlvw3)

It isn't a perfect example because he ran against Bob Casey, Jr., the namesake of the most beloved politician in recent PA history.  People on the left and right loved his father.  His campaign was also to not make many appearances and, here's a key, run as a pro-lifer.

Casey, Jr., primarily won because he was able to steal Santorum's signature issue and the one issue that says "conservative Republican" like nothing else.

Most of the Democrats' success does seem to come from running unconventionally to the right in one way or another.

I'm not sure Santorum would have lost to Hoeffel (Specter's opponent in 2004 and a conventional liberal Dem).

158

Yes, but you'd be hard pressed to name too many instances where the Dems won a race because the GOP candidate was too right wing.

Rick Santorum.

 

Coming up with one name sort of proves my point. And Santorum actually won election to the Senate, suggesting that even he was not all that much "too right wing" for PA.

There are two problems with the "elect squishes to squish districts" theory.

1) It assumes that the GOP has already elected good people in all the other non-squish conservative districts and states. This assumption is false. The country is awash in states and districts which should be sending conservatives to DC, but which send Dems instead. And the GOP leaders show little interest in changing that.

2) It assumes that the reaon why the GOP is not currently winning races in these "squish districts" is that it insists on running candidates who are just too right wing. This assumption is also false. There are reasons why we don't have Rick Lazio, Tom Keane Jr, and Michael Steele in the Senate, and none of them are they they were excessively conservative. The GOP does run squishes. It frequently seems that squishes are its prefered choice even in non-squish areas. And it pretty consistently loses with those squishes.

In a perfect world where the GOP had already maximised its prospects in Republican leaning districts there would be nothing wrong with its then seeking out squish candidates as neccessary if needed to win the majority. But that is not its strategy. It's strategy is "diversity" - squishes for the sake of being squishy are needed in the party, and dominance by conservatives is somethng to be avoided.

159 Orca just said she was ending her show.

160 Oprah?

He'll go all in.  Cynthia McKinney or Maxine Waters.

161 She's ending it in 2011.  Just enough time to get on the ticket.  Plus, like Barry, she can be nonstop campaigning in the interim.

162 We now have to worry he'll run as an Independent, or even -- as Kos urges -- a Democrat.

That's not going to happen. The primary is slated for 24 August 2010. Orange Charlie would have to flip prior to the ballots being printed if he wanted the Dem nomination. Even if he did, I'm pretty sure Kendrick Meeks will clean his clock since he's been a long standing Dem. Who wants to trust a turncoat?

Unless Orange Charlie is also busy gathering signatures for a 3rd party run in the general while also campaigning for the Rep nomination in the primary, he won't have time do to it between 25 August and whenever the deadline for filling for the general is. It isn't terribly long, and it looks like he'd need 3% of the registered voters to sign up for it, roughly 270,000 signature.

I dont see that happening. Charybdis, meet Scylla.

163

It's a bad example because he got re-elected once before?

Well, actually, yes. It sort of undercuts your entire argument. Come on, man!

164 Unless Orange Charlie is also busy gathering signatures for a 3rd party run in the general while also campaigning for the Rep nomination in the primary, he won't have time do to it between 25 August and whenever the deadline for filling for the general is.

Someone mentioned above that he cannot legally do that in Florida.  Rubio brought it up in some interview.

165

And I mean "too right wing for purple Pennsylania," not too right wing for my liking.

There are stacks of Dems who are too left wing for the district or state they represent. At least half a dozen Senators and 40-50 Reps. Lucky for the Dems, they don't have Ace to tell them they are engaging in a stupid strategy.

166 Hillary didn't win, Lazio lost it all on his own and it had nothing to do with the GOP or squishiness.  He made a fatal tactical error in front of cameras and killed himself.

He had a comfy lead until that debate debacle where he foolishly decided an aggressive alpha-male posture towards Hillary was the way to go.  That of course galvanized all the female vote in a protective cluster around Hillary.

167 Bob McDonnell won in Virginia because he did what so few Republicans do--he "finished the sentence." This bit of political genius came from his political advisor, who coached that simply pledging to "cut taxes" isn't enough.

You have to explain how doing so benefits the average voter.

Tax-cutting seems conceptually sensible to committed conservatives, but simply saying "because it's economically sensible" isn't a compelling sale to those who don't see economic liberation in their pocketbook. I'm not saying people are stupid; I"m saying that illuminating the benefits of a business-friendly approach is too rarely done. We don't "finish the sentence."

The sooner GOP candidates close the sale, the better off. Because coffee, as we all know, is for closers.

168 Obama would never pick Oprah, he's too narcissistic to share the spotlight. He'll pick someone boring and stale.

169

BTW, Santorum was elected to the Senate twice in PA, not once.

 

 

170 I'm pretty sure Kendrick Meeks will clean his clock since he's been a long standing Dem.

That would be great, since Kendrick is generally understood to be an imbecile just like his mother. 

171 He'll pick someone boring and stale.

Dick Gephart for VP - he's tanned rested and ready

172

Hillary didn't win, Lazio lost it all on his own and it had nothing to do with the GOP or squishiness.  He made a fatal tactical error in front of cameras and killed himself.

Yes, the point I was making is that the reason we don't have a GOP Senator in NY isn't because we run Bible-thumping ultra-rightists there. The same is true for the rest of the North East. We already run the sort of squishy candidates Ace is arguing for, and the voters there don't buy it for the most part.

173

Palin is going through Florida like "Crap through a Goose".

Nov.24th Jacksonville, The Villages, Orlando

Google Maps puts that at 187 miles total distance. As a dedicated road warrior, let me tell you, that ain't nothin'. Especially if you're not doing the driving.

Now, cramped hands from signing a couple of thousand books. I can see that.

174 >>>BTW, Santorum was elected to the Senate twice in PA, not once.

And squeaked both times and lost the first time he was up against a strong candidate.

175 >>...he made a fatal tactical error in front of cameras and killed himself.<<

A common mistake among PA politicians. R. Budd Dwyer, dig it?

176 That would be great, since Kendrick is generally understood to be an imbecile just like his mother.

I would have called Kendrick a moron, but that's neither here nor there. I just don't see Orange Charlie beating any long-standing reliable Democrat in a Democrat primary in Florida in 2010. Which is the only way Kos' "he could turn democrat" thinking can work out.

Now, if he wins the Republican nomination, I don't seem him losing to Meeks. No, Charlie has to win the Republican nomination to stay in some office past 1 January 2011. Unless The One appoints him to some ambassadorship somewhere.

I wonder if his new wife will approve of his looming funemployment?

177 You seem to be missing the point: Santorum only barely won the first time, barely won the second time, then lost.

Yes, he did win twice. Barely. And yes -- if you can win with a strong conservative, *barely*, it's good to do so.

But what if you cannot win, even barely, as Santorum couldn't the third time around?

He was always just barely holding on to that seat, and no, not because he helped Spector. Because he was a bit too far to the right for bluish purple Pennsylvania.

178 For those of you who don't live in Florida, I suggest you search the name "Scott Rothstein."  He of the out-of-nowhere super-law-firm, four-star restaurants, palatial mansion, gigantic yacht, plastic former Dolphins cheerleader trophy wife and not one but two Bugattis out front, whose firm is now in receivership and locked down by the FBI and IRS.  Scotty was (allegedly) selling structured settlements of both open and fictitious civil suits in a giant Ponzi scheme, among other things, and everyone thinks there was other hanky-panky as well.  Everyone here in Broward expects him to soon be roommates with Bernie Madoff.

Rothstein was a bigtime fundraiser for (and "friend" of) Charlie Crist.  Crist's campaign has given back all the money associated with him, but it doesn't matter.  Rubio hasn't even, to my knowledge, even mentioned Rothstein yet, though he will.  When that happens, I don't know if Crist even stays in the race.

179 And squeaked both times and lost the first time he was up against a strong candidate.

Posted by: ace at November 19, 2009 08:14 PM (jlvw3)

So, 12 years of non-squish was really a bad thing?

180

Just finished watching the first segment of Palin interview on O'Reilly - she did fine. Next segment tomorrow night.

181

And squeaked both times and lost the first time he was up against a strong candidate.

Thanks for that exercise in missing the point. I asked you for examples of these "far right" candiates you think the GOP is losing with, and you come up with a two-term Senate winner.

What do you think should have been done? Should Santorum have been beaten in the primarues by a more "moderate" (read - abortion friendly) candidate? Bear in mind that the "strong candidate" who replaced him, Bob Casey, is also pro-life! The PA voters don't seem to consider that to be the same kiss of death as you do.

You are so very clearly allowing your own policy preferences to influence your view of what is politically pragmatic.

182

You seem to be missing the point

If they gave an Olympic medal for irony, you'd have a gold for that line.

183 >>you are so very clearly allowing<<

Aren't you a condescending prick. Just tell the story, Jeeves.

184

You know, I won't even argue this point with you.

 

Let's assume for the sake of argument that Santorum is too right wing for PA, his election and re-election there notwithstanding.

Why have all the distinctly non-Santorum-like characters the GOP has run over the years in the NE, some of whom I've mentioned here, gone down to defreat? Were they all too right wing as well?

185 >>you know, I won't even argue this point with you...let's assume for the sake of argument..<<

186

Aren't you a condescending prick.

Don't you have somebody elses dick you should be sucking right now?

I hope that didn't sound too condescending.

187

I see you can cut-n-paste, nailbiter. Well done!

(See, that was condescending.)

188 Let's assume for the sake of argument that it's your dick that's in need of sucking. Is your dick *too* small for sucking, the fact that you've managed to produce crosseyed spawn with a gypsy woman notwithstanding?

Why have all the distinctly non-flenser humans gone on to eat with utensils, develop healthy heterosexual relationships, and put their pants on with the zipper in the front? Were they all too busy not "sucking someone else's dick?"

189 I hope that didn't sound too condescending.

I think my work is done here.

190

Let's assume for the sake of argument that it's your dick that's in need of sucking.

Then pucker up, nancy boy.

I think my work is done here.

No, not till I spray hot sticky cum in your eye.

191 >>>This is why I have analogized guys like you to people who say "Blitz on every down." It cannot be that blitzing is *always* the right strategy.

Show me a moderate Republican who won 49 states in a Presidential election.  And, before you say "Richard Nixon", pause a moment and think:  who was more conservative in those days, Nixon or Nelson Rockefeller?  Nixon might not have been as conservative as either Reagan or Goldwater, but he was more conservative than Rockefeller and the rest of the Northeast Republican crowd.

Second case in point -- my home state of North Carolina has had Republican governors for only 12 of the past 100 years.  Yet this state sent Jesse Helms to the US Senate in 1972 and re-elected him four times, including a defeat of the only man to serve four terms as governor of the state.  When Helms retired, Elizabeth Dole was elected to that seat.  Mrs. Dole, of course, was defeated for reelection in 2008, mostly due to the Obama coattails down ballot here in the state. The other Senate seat in this state has alternated back and forth between the two parties over that same time -- no incumbent has been reelected -- since the mid-70's and the seat is currently held by Richard Burr, a Republican.

The usual Democrat elected governor here is left of the average RINO, but to the right of most of the rest of the Democrat party.  According to the ace/Allah logic, we should be nominating Republicans who are in the squish zone.  Does anybody here think that Jesse Helms was a squish?  Elizabeth Dole was pretty squishy, and it was an issue that helped to depress Republican turnout here -- McCain and his "maverickness" being the other. 

Jesse Helms may not have won in landslides here, but he won consistently for 30 years and his political operation helped put a lot of other Republicans in various state and Federal offices.  The Helms organization probably saved Ronald Reagan's political career by engineering his Presidential primary win over Gerald Ford here in 1976, and Senator Helms was always a proud and outspoken ally of President Reagan. 

Compare and contrast with the incredible shrinking Republican party in the Northeast -- the proud legacy of Rockefeller.  Which seems to be the most successful -- principle or pragmatism?

192

Whoa gang. We are all still on the same side here.

Question for PA people: Is pro-life the only issue that put Santorum in hot water? Given Casey's also pro-life stance, was there perhaps something else at work/play there?

193

"According to the ace/Allah logic, we should be nominating Republicans who are in the squish zone."

Whoa, trfogey, NC is *not* a squish state. Even in spite of importing lots of wussy electronics workers from my neck of the woods and having out and out communists running Duke U.

The ace/Allah logic is that in squish areas, you may have to settle for squishes. I say that depends upon the definition of squish.

 

194

For example, where I live, pro-life candidates go *nowhere*. That's just the way it is. We can't even get a minor's parental notification law passed on that issue, in spite of three earnest tries.

On the other hand, we could stop being so squishy about illegal aliens. The squishes here believe we will alienate the Latino vote--2 out of 3 always vote for the Commiecrat anyway, squish or real Republican. (And I don't just say Commiecrat for rhetorical fun--Boxer and her ilk prove my point).

195

Elizabeth Dole was pretty squishy

She was all right. No Jesse Helm,s, but who is?

Discontent with Bush trickled down in the GOP to take out several decent Republicans. A lot of people who'd have been fine with Dole in a conservative GOP took out their anger on her because it was not very conservative.

196 http://tinyurl.com/ydtwfoq

Oh, my god.

Fred Thompson.

Teh Fred!

197 I met Sarah Palin last night. I learned one important thing about her. She is NICE. And this bears on her "negatives." Think of the job of Veep. S/He's got to be the attack-dog going after the oppo top-dog. (Sorta hard when the top banana is a RINO squish who keeps her on a short leash.)

But if Mrs. Palin is going for the top job someone else is hammering the other guys.

Every politician is a friendly, warm person. Or good at faking it. When I spoke with Gerald Ford when I was in High School, it felt phony. When I spoke with Sarah, her warmth and friendliness (after signing books for 3 hours) came off as genuine and heartfelt. The more Sarah Palin gets in front of voters bypassing state-run media, the more people will realize she's NICE. I don't see how her negatives can survive that.

198 How long have we been playing the game of having to vote for squishes, and how has that worked out for us? Have we learned nothing from Reagan? Was he a squish? How many states did he win?

We win and win big every time that the candidate clearly explains why taxes are bad, why big government is the wrong way, but when we try to SQUISH our way, we are defeated.

199 You guys always dicker about the next election.
If Americans are stupid enough to vote in another leftist in, like Barak Hussein Osama, they are going to get what the voted for.  Unemployment, higher taxes, lousy health care, more attacks from Muslim extremists
Seems like a win-win plan for the democrap party!.

200 My question is, can I get help to blow the bridges from NYC since the radioactive people crossing the bridge will be detrimental to health care workers in Jersey?

We should quarantine these people since treating them will be a major threat to health care workers.  Having patients that glow in the dark won't be good.

re: I know. I am just being funny.  What Homeland Security is working to prevent is no ones business.  Nothing to see here,  move along.

201 >>>Whoa, trfogey, NC is *not* a squish state. Even in spite of importing lots of wussy electronics workers from my neck of the woods and having out and out communists running Duke U.

>>>The ace/Allah logic is that in squish areas, you may have to settle for squishes. I say that depends upon the definition of squish.

Maybe NC is not a squish state because of the strong right-wing conservative influence (both social and fiscal) that Senator Helms and his political organization provided for that thirty years. Our statewide congressional delegation was consistently moving Republican until the General Assembly started all-out gerrymandering after the 2000 census. The b*stards split the city of Raleigh over three congressional districts because they couldn't keep a Democrat in the old 4th District seat with the conservative votes in the suburbs.

Admittedly, Jesse Helms was a once-in-a-lifetime politician, but I still think his example holds. When you talk to the yellow-dog Democrats around here that voted for Jesse year after year -- the farmers and small businessmen and blue-collar workers that voted Democrat for everything else -- the consistent answer you got from them was "I don't always agree with him, but I always know where he stands and I know he's not going to change his mind up there in DC." He beat former governor Jim Hunt -- the only other politician that can match Helms' record of statewide electoral success -- purely on the basis of ideological consistency and by painting Hunt as someone who would sell out his principles to serve his ambition. That was the closest race Jesse had, and it was the only statewide race Hunt ever lost (4 terms as governor and one term as Lt. Governor).

The right man with the right principles and a consistent record of sticking to his guns -- or a woman, for that matter -- can win anywhere in this country, I believe.  We just need to find these men and women and bring them forth.  The average voter doesn't need to agree with a candidate 100 percent if he knows that candidate has principles that he/she will absolutely not compromise.  Squishiness is all about compromise, and that's where the trust is lost.  Why not go with the guy who promises you the most stuff up front, since you fully expect him to sell you out later? 

Squishy Republicans will never win that battle.  Good whores always end up with dirty knees.  Outbidding the Democrats would wrinkle too many crisply pressed trousers, and the squishes would rather look good than win.

202 Done as a Republican candidate, that is. We now have to worry he'll run as an Independent, or even -- as Kos urges -- a Democrat.

If Crist were to switch parties relatively soon, he may be able to get away with it and stay in the Senate race. But in Florida we have a "sore losers" law, whereas someone defeated in a primary cannot switch parties to continue to run in the general. So, if he loses to Rubio, he can't make the big D switch and be on the ballot.

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204 But I don't know if I trust this stuff -- after all, AllahPundit is notorious for cherry-picking only happy, upbeat news to report.

205 depending on the poll; and yet his actual approval rate, as in job approval, is at least ten point lower.

206 Whoa, trfogey, NC is *not* a squish state. Even in spite of importing lots of wussy electronics workers from my neck of the woods and having out and out communists running Duke U.

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