Whoa: Virus in Voting Machines in NY23 Interfered With Vote Tallies?

Republican Commissioner Judith Peck refused to speculate on whether the code that governs the counts could have been tampered with. She indicated that "as far as I know, the machine in question was not functioning properly and was repaired" by the technician.
Commissioners in other counties have stated that they were not made aware of the virus issue in Hamilton County. In Jefferson County, inspectors from four districts claim that "human error" resulted in their "mistakenly" entering 0 votes for Hoffman in several districts, resulting in Owens leading Jefferson County on election night though the recanvas of the computer counts now show that Hoffman is leading. Jefferson County has not conducted a manual paper ballot recount.

In St. Lawrence County, machines in Louisville, Waddington, Claire, and Rossie "broke" early in the voting process on election day. Republican Commissioner Deborah Pahler said that the machines kept "freezing up... like Windows does all the time," and that they experienced several paper jams as well. The voted ballots that could not be scanned were placed in an Emergency Lock Box and re-scanned later at the St. Lawrence County Board of Elections. Election officials in St. Lawrence County were given no advance knowledge of a potential virus in the system.
At least one County official thus far has raised concern that it's possible that ALL of the machines used in the NY-23 election had the 'virus' but only a few malfunctioned as a result. The counts from any district that used the ImageCast machines are suspect due to "the virus" discovered in Hamilton County, last-minute "reprogramming" by Dominion workers, and security flaws in the systems themselves. A manual paper-ballot recount of the vote could resolve computer vote accuracy questions.

Given the virus, and given the four "human error" tallies of zero votes for Hoffman, how can they possibly resist a full manual recount?

Drew predicted this would happen with these new machines, didn't he?

Remember the idiocy of people demanding computerized balloting machines in the wake of Bush v. Gore? Remember how transparently stupid that was, even at the time, to anyone who gave it more than three seconds thought?

People become utterly stupid when they get into herd/riot mode.

Via Jim Treacher's Twitter.

It's Over? Hoffman trails by more votes than there are left to be counted.

Ah, but there's always that hail Mary of a recount.

But... yeah, it's kind of over.

Posted by: Ace at 04:50 PM

Comments

1 As the saying goes, not a bug but a ...

Posted by: N. Pelosiyeva, H. Reidski, Members - Politburo, Central Committee at November 19, 2009 04:53 PM (s2bW4)

2 Handy little bug for the Dems too. No fingerprints on viruses right?

Posted by: Huckleberry at November 19, 2009 04:54 PM (s2bW4)

3 Remember the idiocy of people demanding computerized balloting machines in the wake of Bush v. Gore?

Particularly when the same people started pushing conspiracy theories about computerized ballots being rigged by Republicans.

Yeah, because Republicans have a long, storied history of vote fraud...

Posted by: Rob Crawford at November 19, 2009 04:55 PM (ZJ/un)

4 If we only had universal healthcare for voting machines, this could have been averted.

Posted by: Joe Mama at November 19, 2009 04:55 PM (pRKLf)

5 Should have used Macs.

Posted by: Barbarian at November 19, 2009 04:55 PM (EL+OC)

6 Virus? Sounds more like a tapeworm.

Posted by: Joe Mama at November 19, 2009 04:56 PM (pRKLf)

7
Machines not working right? I'll get two of my best men on it!

Posted by: Union Repairman at November 19, 2009 04:57 PM (Oxen1)

8 As a life-long Communist Republican, all I can say is that these conspiracy do more harm than good.

Posted by: The Scuuuzzz at November 19, 2009 04:57 PM (muUqs)

9 Three second is an awfully long time to think. I can see racism in just two seconds. That's why they pay me the big bucks.

Posted by: Chris Matthews at November 19, 2009 04:58 PM (Vh1/h)

10 Man, this is going to go nuclear. A fucking virus was found? How and why could it ever get on the machine to begin with except for tampering?

You can't trust any of the counts now. A manual recount is mandated.

Posted by: Rocks at November 19, 2009 04:59 PM (Q1lie)

11 Being a computer engineer and a political junkie the problem is obvious. A vote was cast for Dede and the logic circuits melted since the vote defied any known logic in the universe.

Posted by: Just Another Poster at November 19, 2009 04:59 PM (NgoAe)

12 So is there a chance that he will end up being seated?

Posted by: Smarty at November 19, 2009 04:59 PM (v/j2M)

13 I had no idea that ACORN had branched out into genetically engineered viruses. Naw - their collective IQ just approaches intellectually challenged.

Posted by: MDr at November 19, 2009 04:59 PM (ucq49)

14 Chicago-style politics goes nation wide. Almost literally, I thought I heard somewhere that those are the same Sequoia machines we use. I could be mistaken as the article refers to 'Dominion.'

Posted by: Methos at November 19, 2009 05:00 PM (CoDwG)

15 Republican Commissioner Deborah Pahler said that the machines kept "freezing up... like Windows does all the time...

Sweet.

Posted by: The Scuuuzzz at November 19, 2009 05:00 PM (muUqs)

16 After all the gloating about winning NY-23 by the Dems, I just hope Hoffman wins at the end of the recount just so I can shove that gloating back down their damn throats.

Posted by: Brenden at November 19, 2009 05:00 PM (AAvMu)

17 Sounds like an SEIU / ACORN flu. Is there a vaccine for this in 2010 and 2012?

Posted by: paranoid polly at November 19, 2009 05:01 PM (r7Vc3)

18 This is bad, but it's not without a physical remedy. These are optical scan machines as I understand it. Not sure about NY law, but in some states like mine, recounts call for all the ballots to be hauled out and re-run through a machine.

If that machine is certified ahead of time as not wonky in any way, an accurate, machine count is readily possible.

Laws vary on whether or not you can actually do that, who has to initiate it, etc. There's also the small matter of the other guy actually being in Congress and voting now.

Posted by: Anonymous Coward at November 19, 2009 05:01 PM (rXZDU)

19 So is there a chance that he will end up being seated?

Posted by: Smarty at November 19, 2009 04:59 PM (v/j2M)

It was slim to none before. I would upgrade it to fully possible now.

Posted by: Rocks at November 19, 2009 05:01 PM (Q1lie)

20 This issue is one of the unforgivables on my list of Bush-era/Republican control.

After a hideous near theft of an election from you, why wouldn't basic fucking election reform be one of your highest domestic agenda items? Karl Rove and his "permanent majority" NCLB, Medicare part D, and the rest of the spendorama crapola should've gone and fucked a goat.

And when the inevitable screeching of RACISM started, the Republicans should've soundwalled the media with this talking point, "Who's the cheater? The one who wants you to show a picture ID at the voting booth, or the assholes who want same-day registration for Mary Poppins?"

Cocksuckers.

Posted by: nightwitch at November 19, 2009 05:02 PM (HFFM8)

21 Need some help with that recount?

Posted by: Bertha Lewis at November 19, 2009 05:02 PM (wAQA5)

22 Congress decides who is seated, so it's still a long shot.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at November 19, 2009 05:03 PM (muUqs)

23 I was told there would be sufficient vaccine supplies...

Posted by: H1N1 at November 19, 2009 05:03 PM (NtiET)

24 PC Load Letter?!!?!??!! What the fuck does that mean??

Posted by: Michael Bolton at November 19, 2009 05:04 PM (+9Rf8)

25 Aren't all votes for republicans a virus?

Posted by: Democrat Vote Counter at November 19, 2009 05:05 PM (IhQuA)

VOTE FRAUD!

Posted by: Fresh Air at November 19, 2009 05:05 PM (uFqVv)

27 Dominion/Sequoia, if I actually could read. It probably is the same ones we use. The good news is there's a paper record taken as each vote is cast that the voter has the opportunity to verify agrees with their selection. So assuming there's any integrity involved (and there may be given that we're hearing about it), those paper ballots should allow an accurate recount.

Posted by: Methos at November 19, 2009 05:05 PM (CoDwG)

28 Sounds like ACORN hired a few Vote Correctors with the Spendulus money.

Posted by: Fresh Air at November 19, 2009 05:06 PM (uFqVv)

Related: The next time someone claims Hugo Chavez holds free and open elections (Jimmah!) on Diebold electronic machines, keep Ace's little nugget here in the back of your mind.

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at November 19, 2009 05:07 PM (B+qrE)

electronic balloting is no more or less secure from shennianigeans than a paper system and less easy to back track, i think most ppl can understand that no matter their level of technical knowledge.

Posted by: shoey at November 19, 2009 05:07 PM (RxUMK)

31 shuttup allla yoooz

Posted by: SEIU at November 19, 2009 05:07 PM (Uc/xV)

32 Ace, might wanna check the originator to that story (the one spectator links to). Looks like more of an opinion piece, than anything else.

Posted by: lorien1973 at November 19, 2009 05:08 PM (IhQuA)

33 This issue is one of the unforgivables on my list of Bush-era/Republican control.

Elections are governed by state law, so you can let go of that bit of irrational anger.

Unless you want federal control over elections, in which case -- GOODBYE COUNTRY, HELLO UNITED STATES OF ACORNICA!

Posted by: Rob Crawford at November 19, 2009 05:09 PM (ZJ/un)

34 31 shuttup shaddap allla yoooz

Posted by: SEIU at November 19, 2009 05:07 PM (Uc/xV)

FIFY

Posted by: fozzy at November 19, 2009 05:09 PM (ccEuN)

35 computer problems occurs in NY-23 as was predicted would happen with Diebold

it was electronic voting, it was a electronic voting problem, electronic voting problem, electronic voting problem, don't even think about that word that has to do with what squirrels eat, electronic voting problem, electronic voting problem, electronic voting problem, electronic voting problem

Posted by: Legacy Media (with the freshest take on spin) at November 19, 2009 05:10 PM (NgoAe)

36 It's interesting how states can run hundreds of billions of lottery "votes" without ever having any problem with this sort of counting, but those same states can't get simple electoral voting correct, when it is much smaller and simpler than the lotteries that take place every single day and involve tons and tons of money.

All machine voting needs to produce two paper tickets upon voting, with one going into a box at the poll, for recounts, and the other being taken home by the voter.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 19, 2009 05:10 PM (A46hP)

37 Problems with vote tallies are a feature not a bug.

Posted by: Just Another Poster at November 19, 2009 05:11 PM (NgoAe)

38 Let's not jump to conclusions.

Posted by: Barry O-bow-ma at November 19, 2009 05:11 PM (6268o)

Did it ever occur to these geniuses that design, or buy, these voting machines to simply include a paper backup card that also gets punched that the voter will then turn into the polling station workers as a secondary 'hard' backup?

Why do I always have to think of everything?

Posted by: Jim in San Diego at November 19, 2009 05:11 PM (H7Rlw)

All we were looking for was your WOW account name and password.

Posted by: Axlerod at November 19, 2009 05:12 PM (pUO5u)

People become utterly stupid when they get into herd/riot mode.

Meh, sure they do but I'm not sure this is it.

People can steal the hell out of an election without computers, and you can set the computers in such a way that it doesn't make it any easier either.

If they set their shit up wrong and stupid, well, that's hardly the computers fault.

Also, you don't even know what the hell happened. Maybe their was a 'virus'. Maybe 'virus' is the excuse they're using rather then saying "massive intentional fraud by election workers".

This isn't fucking rocking science... it's just tolerated.

We allow it.

There's no reason voting machines should be networked. They might not be, and these reports of 'virus' are unsubstantiated bullshit. If they are, that's dumb. If they weren't they couldn't contract a virus apart from it being installed by someone in the manufacturer or election workers.

Beyond that... computers COULD be used to make the whole process utterly utterly transparent and clean and verifiable.

But we don't WANT it to do that. We tolerate fraud. We won't even ask for ID.

Posted by: Entropy at November 19, 2009 05:12 PM (IsLT6)

Charlie Gibson: "Free elections? Never heard of them."

This is straight-up banana republic shit, and the first thing a GOP-controlled Congress and White House need to do (if we ever get a fair election to elect one again) is pass a complete revamp of election law to keep this shit from happening.

Posted by: SGT Dan at November 19, 2009 05:13 PM (GgXZc)

and can i spell or what?

what can i say i went to public school, lol

Posted by: shoey at November 19, 2009 05:14 PM (RxUMK)

44 I like this part of the story:

Frank Hoar, an attorney for the Democratic Party, initially ordered the impound of malfunctioning machines but released the order on Nov. 5th so that Bill Owens could be sworn in to Congress in time to vote on the House Health bill on November 7th.

With a name like that, what other job could he have than an attorney for the dems?

Posted by: fozzy at November 19, 2009 05:14 PM (ccEuN)

45 A Federal Court order demanded that New York have the machines in place and use them or be found in violation of the Help America Vote Act of 2002 which requires that all polling locations have handicapped-accessible voting machines with a variety of options available so that anyone may use the machine to vote.

Nice.....

Posted by: ACORN Reginal Director at November 19, 2009 05:15 PM (Q1lie)

All machine voting needs to produce two paper tickets upon voting, with one going into a box at the poll, for recounts, and the other being taken home by the voter.

Even that can be gamed far easier then an ideal electronic setup.

Using the computers could make the business more accurate and cleaner. Someone still has to count those papers and they can falsify (or accidentally screw up) their count.

Posted by: Entropy at November 19, 2009 05:16 PM (IsLT6)

47 24 PC Load Letter?!!?!??!! What the fuck does that mean??

Posted by: Michael Bolton at November 19, 2009 05:04 PM (+9Rf

Just in case nobody got the reference.

http://tiny.cc/KTq1D

Posted by: Jim in San Diego at November 19, 2009 05:17 PM (H7Rlw)

48 44 I like this part of the story:

Frank Hoar, an attorney for the Democratic Party, initially ordered the impound of malfunctioning machines but released the order on Nov. 5th so that Bill Owens could be sworn in to Congress in time to vote on the House Health bill on November 7th.

With a name like that, what other job could he have than an attorney for the dems?

Posted by: fozzy at November 19, 2009 05:14 PM (ccEuN)

Eh Franky, so ya marry yo wife just to make her a hoar?

Posted by: conscious, but incoherent at November 19, 2009 05:18 PM (kn+jW)

49 Are these the jagoff machines produced by that Chavez owned company from California?

Posted by: Free White and 21 at November 19, 2009 05:19 PM (kM/ZI)

50 Jim in San Diego - Are you a spammer now? Your link goes to some Portugese networking site.

Posted by: fozzy at November 19, 2009 05:19 PM (ccEuN)

51 Elections are governed by state law, so you can let go of that bit of irrational anger.

Yeah, it's craaaazy how I would like my vote to count and not be negated by cheating scumbags registering fictional characters. The feds tell the states what to do all the time, constitutional or no, look at this health care nightmare.

Posted by: nightwitch at November 19, 2009 05:20 PM (HFFM8)

52 Ballot problems? where?

Posted by: Chad the Hanger at November 19, 2009 05:22 PM (LLOGQ)

53 Yes, as a professional software engineer, I knew it was a stupid idea then as now.

Posted by: Gerry at November 19, 2009 05:22 PM (8jrGB)

54 47 24 PC Load Letter?!!?!??!! What the fuck does that mean??

Posted by: Michael Bolton at November 19, 2009 05:04 PM (+9Rf

Just in case nobody got the reference.

http://tiny.cc/KTq1D

Let's face it, you just wanted an excuse to post that.

Posted by: Obvious at November 19, 2009 05:22 PM (ia/06)

55 Wonder who's getting a kickback on these voting machines. But then, who cares. Anyone can walk in off the street and vote. God forbid someone as you to identify yourself.

Posted by: GarandFan at November 19, 2009 05:22 PM (ZQBnQ)

Ru-Roh, better call in the Scooby gang to investigate.

Also, as fozzy says, Jim in San Diego, WTF was that link and did I just get cooties from it?

Posted by: ParanoidGirlInSeattle at November 19, 2009 05:23 PM (RZ8pf)

57 Is there a vaccine for this in 2010 and 2012?
Serum .303

Posted by: andycanuck at November 19, 2009 05:23 PM (2qU2d)

All machine voting needs to produce two paper tickets upon voting, with one going into a box at the poll, for recounts, and the other being taken home by the voter.

No, you NEVER produce ANYTHING the voter leaves with that shows how they voted. The moment you do that, large-scale vote buying becomes practical. At the moment, you can't guarantee that the guy you bought lunch and trucked to the polls actually voted for your man. Have a receipt that can be produced, and all bets are off.

Ballots should remain secret and anonymous. All the fraud detection needs to happen BEFORE the ballot is cast. After the ballot is cast -- placed in a secure container -- the ballot should never be touched unless a manual recount is needed.

Furthermore, the secure container should be treated like it's evidence in a capital case -- a documented chain of custody from the moment it's set down at the beginning of the day until the election is certified and all challenges completed. Any container with gaps in its chain of custody is "spoiled" and the ballots contained destroyed. If that forces a manual recount of all the other ballots, too bad. No more "discovering" ballots at the last minute.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at November 19, 2009 05:23 PM (ZJ/un)

59 People become utterly stupid when they get into herd/riot mode.

Better the herd/riot mode than tribal...like you racist white teabaggers.

Posted by: Chris Tingle at November 19, 2009 05:24 PM (l1Wlr)

60 All of NYS is switching to these machines.

They had a good plan...run them out in the off, off year election (which is only supposed to be town/city wide elections), then run them during the mid-terms (county, state legislators, Governor and the Senate Special) next year and then the Presidential.

It would have been a good, steady ramp up to test and fix in two cycles before the big hit of a Presidential year.

The folks in NY23 just got blindsided by the 3rd most important race of the year falling into their lap.

I haven't heard of any problems elsewhere but they got slammed there and others didn't. Also, adjustments from the night of total are common, they usually just don't amount to much or change the result. This was just an odd and high profile race that everything is magnified.

The good news is they have the paper back-up, so they are just going to have to do the recount.

I asked Mike Long (chair of the NYS Conservative Party) if Hoffman would have the resources to fight afterward and he said yes (what else would he say though). I'm also sure the House GOP will kick in if there's a reasonable chance of success.

We should know more after the absentees (about 5,400) are counted. I doubt Hoffman can pull it off but they need to do the recount just to keep it on the up and up).

Posted by: DrewM. at November 19, 2009 05:24 PM (FCWQb)

61 ". In Jefferson County, inspectors from four districts claim that "human error" resulted in their "mistakenly" entering 0 votes for Hoffman in several districts, resulting in Owens leading Jefferson County on election night though the recanvas of the computer counts now show that Hoffman is leading. Jefferson County has not conducted a manual paper ballot recount."

I can see a human making a mistake and a count of 0 being applied once. But a count of 0 being applied in "several districts" with no 0 counts being mistakenly applied to Owens or Favabeans (who was still on the ballot)?

Posted by: crosspatch at November 19, 2009 05:24 PM (ZbLJZ)

62 Rob Crawford - Excellent point. Hadn't thought of that before. With a mind like that, are you sure you're not a Democrat?

Posted by: fozzy at November 19, 2009 05:25 PM (ccEuN)

63 50 Jim in San Diego - Are you a spammer now? Your link goes to some Portugese networking site.

Posted by: fozzy at November 19, 2009 05:19 PM (ccEuN)

Sweetness!

It was supposed to go to the Wikipedia page.

Have you think of making Laptop Battery stronger for the better business?

Posted by: Jim in San Diego at November 19, 2009 05:26 PM (H7Rlw)

64 You think this is bad, wait til you see the numbers in Conn and Nev with Dodd and Ried next year. NY-23 is just a test.

Posted by: The Fixers at November 19, 2009 05:26 PM (DIYmd)

65 Jim in San Diego - Are you a spammer now? Your link goes to some Portugese networking site.

He's just hitting on Sofia....

Posted by: IllTemperedCur at November 19, 2009 05:26 PM (l1Wlr)

66 No more "discovering" ballots at the last minute.

Damn.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at November 19, 2009 05:26 PM (NtiET)

67
Yeah, it's craaaazy how I would like my vote to count and not be negated by cheating scumbags registering fictional characters. The feds tell the states what to do all the time, constitutional or no...

So, in order to "protect" your vote, you're willing to shred the Constitution. That's close to the dumbest thing I've read all day. If Bonesteel hadn't commented earlier, you'd have won.

Did you ever have even the most basic civics course? In the US there are no elections held above the state level. The presidential election is actually 50 individual state elections. You want to protect your vote, work at the state level or lower.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at November 19, 2009 05:26 PM (ZJ/un)

68 Amazing. Epicenter of political world in most empty, remote zone of Northeast...moose country, almost.

Posted by: Mr. Ditherer-Paramus at November 19, 2009 05:27 PM (NPtVh)

69 Rob Crawford - Excellent point. Hadn't thought of that before. With a mind like that, are you sure you're not a Democrat?

Nah, I just watch the games they play.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at November 19, 2009 05:28 PM (ZJ/un)

70 Jim, could you hook me up with some lace wigs?

Posted by: Z Ryan at November 19, 2009 05:28 PM (cMo6P)

71 (...well there's a different kind of sockpuppet fail...I was going to be Christine Gregoire in #66. Sigh.)

Posted by: HeatherRadish at November 19, 2009 05:28 PM (NtiET)

72 Why would one think that a "bug" would favor one candidate over another?

Posted by: Mr. Ditherer-Paramus at November 19, 2009 05:29 PM (NPtVh)

"No, you NEVER produce ANYTHING the voter leaves with that shows how they voted. The moment you do that, large-scale vote buying becomes practical. At the moment, you can't guarantee that the guy you bought lunch and trucked to the polls actually voted for your man. Have a receipt that can be produced, and all bets are off.

Ballots should remain secret and anonymous. All the fraud detection needs to happen BEFORE the ballot is cast. After the ballot is cast -- placed in a secure container -- the ballot should never be touched unless a manual recount is needed.

Furthermore, the secure container should be treated like it's evidence in a capital case -- a documented chain of custody from the moment it's set down at the beginning of the day until the election is certified and all challenges completed. Any container with gaps in its chain of custody is "spoiled" and the ballots contained destroyed. If that forces a manual recount of all the other ballots, too bad. No more "discovering" ballots at the last minute."

we need committed conservatives on election boards and as poll workers to make this happen.

Posted by: shoey at November 19, 2009 05:29 PM (RxUMK)

74 70 Jim, could you hook me up with some lace wigs?

Posted by: Z Ryan at November 19, 2009 05:28 PM (cMo6P)

Speaking of lace wigs... did the laptop battery guy 'do in' the lace wig guy?

Posted by: Jim in San Diego at November 19, 2009 05:30 PM (H7Rlw)

Why would one think that a "bug" would favor one candidate over another?

Maybe they used too small a variable to contain the number of votes and it overflowed?

Posted by: Barc at November 19, 2009 05:31 PM (ia/06)

76 we r in ur votng macheens
killin ur elecshunz

Posted by: lacewigs uggboots laptopbatteries at November 19, 2009 05:32 PM (Uc/xV)

#67

i was gonna say it, but didn't feel like fighting today.

Posted by: shoey at November 19, 2009 05:32 PM (RxUMK)

78 Has this been confirmed anywhere else? I can't say I've ever heard of the Gouverneur Times, which is what the AmSpec links to, and I have no idea if it's a trustworthy source.

Anywho, big news if true/confirmed.

Posted by: LikeATimeBomb at November 19, 2009 05:32 PM (dwwPD)

79
PC Load Letter video

Posted by: dan-O at November 19, 2009 05:32 PM (+9Rf8)

Speaking of lace wigs... did the laptop battery guy 'do in' the lace wig guy?

A do believe we have a murder mystery on our hands.

Posted by: Michael Scott at November 19, 2009 05:33 PM (ia/06)

Computer problem are cause battery failure. this blog need buy battery for ass-top primo use.

Posted by: computer asstop-battery at November 19, 2009 05:33 PM (2qU2d)

Computer problem are cause battery failure. this blog need buy battery for ass-top primo use

Wittier than dum-dum

Posted by: Barc at November 19, 2009 05:34 PM (ia/06)

Speaking of lace wigs... did the laptop battery guy 'do in' the lace wig guy?

No talk, me. Lawyer up.

Posted by: computer asstop-battery at November 19, 2009 05:35 PM (2qU2d)

84 I think IBM voluntarily exited the voting machine market at one point because they saw the boondoggle it would eventually become from the desire of some parties to put extra weight on the scales.

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 19, 2009 05:38 PM (0q2P7)

85 I want an asstop-battery.

Posted by: Jim in San Diego at November 19, 2009 05:39 PM (H7Rlw)

86 So, in order to "protect" your vote, you're willing to shred the Constitution. That's close to the dumbest thing I've read all day. If Bonesteel hadn't commented earlier, you'd have won.

Did you ever have even the most basic civics course? In the US there are no elections held above the state level. The presidential election is actually 50 individual state elections. You want to protect your vote, work at the state level or lower.

The Constitution is already shredded.

When you posted your elegant ballot-box scheme above you didn't say which state you wanted to implement it in, you spoke in generalities. This is all I'm trying to express, frustration that "our team" never pushes things like this when we're in charge.

And thankfully, I live in a state that has implemented voter ID laws, which I made sure my local people heard from me about, especially after Georgia wrote their voter ID law.

Posted by: nightwitch at November 19, 2009 05:40 PM (HFFM8)

87 btw, upon further inspection, the GT looks awfully like some dude's crackpot opinion site masquerading as a newspaper. hrrm.

Posted by: LikeATimeBomb at November 19, 2009 05:41 PM (dwwPD)

I want an asstop-battery.

Sullivan 2000 only on sale that week $27.95

Posted by: computer asstop-battery at November 19, 2009 05:41 PM (2qU2d)

89 Do Not Trust The Voter Robot

Posted by: Golem14 at November 19, 2009 05:43 PM (2X8VA)

90 -GO AHEAD! RE-COUNT 'EM! YOU'RE STILL GOING TO BE FUCKED!! YOU HEAR ME! FUCKED!! YOU....YOU....REPUBLICAN SUCKERS OF COCK!!!!!

Posted by: Dede Scozzafava (I lost and now I'm horny) at November 19, 2009 05:45 PM (0f2vb)

REPUBLICAN SUCKERS OF COCK!!!!!

What a polite way to phrase that!

Posted by: Barc at November 19, 2009 05:46 PM (ia/06)

92 The Constitution is already shredded.

Then go home, all is lost, no point in discussing further. If you are too dense to see "Our Side" when it holds the Presidency can't and shouldn't push for universal election laws then you are either wholly ineffective at fighting tyranny, or lobbying for it. Using past trespasses against our highest laws as justification for further federalization of our most critical institutions for the control of federal power in this country is a clear indication that you do not understand what it takes to be free. (Hint: pushing local government/personal responsibilities onto federal government is not it)

Posted by: MikeTheMoose at November 19, 2009 05:46 PM (0q2P7)

93 I want an asstop-battery.

Call me! We install 24/7/365! We come right in to your bedroom! Call me!

Posted by: Bwaney Fwank Backdoor Asstop Battery Installation Service at November 19, 2009 05:47 PM (aC0uO)

How does "human error" result in someone reporting zero votes in their district???

No one who wasn't fully hockey helmet retarded could find it remotely plausible that a major candidate in a close election didn't receive a single vote in their district.

Human error is when someone types in 6980 votes instead of 9680. Not when they enter 0 instead of 3167.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at November 19, 2009 05:48 PM (plsiE)

95 No more "discovering" ballots at the last minute.

You take all the fun out of elections - thats one of the things we do best

Posted by: King Co Wa elections office at November 19, 2009 05:51 PM (uJBct)

96
The Constitution is already shredded.

If that's your position, then let's wipe our asses on it and be done with it.

This is all I'm trying to express, frustration that "our team" never pushes things like this when we're in charge.

"Our team" wasn't in charge. They had slight control of Congress and control of the White House, sure. But neither of those have anything to do with state election laws.

Express frustration all you want, but when you're frustrated because people who have no power over it did nothing about it, you're correctly going to be called a dumbass.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at November 19, 2009 05:54 PM (ZJ/un)

How does "human error" result in someone reporting zero votes in their district?

Well, if these machines are a bad a a debate tourniment program I've had to deal with, you can only enter a score once and never change it. Hitting 'enter' twice instead of once is really bad for that.

The real human error in this instance, however, is those bastardos not being smart enough to just make up a small, fake, reasonable number.

Posted by: Barc at November 19, 2009 05:56 PM (ia/06)

98
I'm sorry voters, I can't let you do that.

Posted by: HAL 9000 at November 19, 2009 05:56 PM (+9Rf8)

99
Then go home, all is lost, no point in discussing further. If you are too dense to see "Our Side" when it holds the Presidency can't and shouldn't push for universal election laws then you are either wholly ineffective at fighting tyranny, or lobbying for it. Using past trespasses against our highest laws as justification for further federalization of our most critical institutions for the control of federal power in this country is a clear indication that you do not understand what it takes to be free. (Hint: pushing local government/personal responsibilities onto federal government is not it)

I agree that voting laws and machines are the states' concern. When people get tired of their votes being constantly fucked with, then they'll do something about it. Keeping election process decision-making on a smaller scale is also easier than another massive federal bearuocracy.

Posted by: Iamnotanalcoholic at November 19, 2009 05:59 PM (0f2vb)

100 Hoffman can't win, he now trails by more votes than remaining ballots to be counted. Although he should ask for full recount.

Posted by: The Fixers at November 19, 2009 06:00 PM (DIYmd)

101 If you are too dense to see "Our Side" when it holds the Presidency can't and shouldn't push for universal election laws then you are either wholly ineffective at fighting tyranny, or lobbying for it.

When the constitution was written it set basic guidelines for federal elections, such as who was allowed to vote, and when the vote was to take place.

The Constitution is already shredded.

Then go home, all is lost, no point in discussing further.

Electoral reform is one of the ways to patch the it back together. I'm just angry that the last eight years put us further down the rabbit hole of tyranny. I'm more to the crazy libertarian side of things than on the authoritarian right, and I'm frustrated that the people we manage to elect never seem to do anything productive in rolling back any of the progressives agenda.

Posted by: nightwitch at November 19, 2009 06:03 PM (HFFM8)

102 No, you NEVER produce ANYTHING the voter leaves with that shows how they voted. The moment you do that, large-scale vote buying becomes practical. At the moment, you can't guarantee that the guy you bought lunch and trucked to the polls actually voted for your man. Have a receipt that can be produced, and all bets are off.

Good point. I didn't think of that.

Ballots should remain secret and anonymous. All the fraud detection needs to happen BEFORE the ballot is cast. After the ballot is cast -- placed in a secure container -- the ballot should never be touched unless a manual recount is needed. Furthermore, the secure container should be treated like it's evidence in a capital case -- a documented chain of custody from the moment it's set down at the beginning of the day until the election is certified and all challenges completed. Any container with gaps in its chain of custody is "spoiled" and the ballots contained destroyed. If that forces a manual recount of all the other ballots, too bad. No more "discovering" ballots at the last minute.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at November 19, 2009 05:23 PM (ZJ/un)

Excellent points, Rob. And electoral fraud of any kind ought to carry a huge punishment and very stiff sentence.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 19, 2009 06:04 PM (A46hP)

103 bearuocracy.

Posted by: Iamnotanalcoholic

office (damn spelling demons. Die...die....)

Posted by: Iamnotanalcoholic at November 19, 2009 06:05 PM (0f2vb)

104 What was this virus? Could it be the kind that no matter how you vote it comes up democrat?

Posted by: BarbaraS at November 19, 2009 06:07 PM (gZn89)

105 Express frustration all you want, but when you're frustrated because people who have no power over it did nothing about it, you're correctly going to be called a dumbass.

When these jokers wanted to pass more entitlements and the unconstitutional McCain-Feingold they managed to twist arms to do so.

Posted by: nightwitch at November 19, 2009 06:07 PM (HFFM8)

106 When people get tired of their votes being constantly fucked with, then they'll do something about it.

Yeah, what he said!

Posted by: Mayor Daley at November 19, 2009 06:10 PM (HFFM8)

107 Optical
Scan
Paper
Ballot

It's like voting with a freaking bubble test.

The ballot box scans the ballot, making counting quick and all computerized. The paper ballots are all there for recounts.

Many states have these already.

ARGGGHH

Posted by: Stirner at November 19, 2009 06:12 PM (XOE03)

108 Anyone have the election day ballot numbers vs the absentie ballots? I would have expected election day to be more kind to Hoffman considering the momentum he had. If there is a discrepancy between the two then I feel strongly that a second look is needed at the count.

Posted by: Just Another Poster at November 19, 2009 06:12 PM (NgoAe)

109 This is turning out better then I ever planned.

Posted by: Skynet at November 19, 2009 06:13 PM (j88uA)

110 Here's the thing: ACORN types don't want to steal elections, they want to muck them up so that people don't trust the outcome anyway.

This is good for them as they don't like elections much and think that they will benefit if these uppity Americans stop thinking that they run their own lives.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 19, 2009 06:15 PM (T0NGe)

111

Excellent points, Rob. And electoral fraud of any kind ought to carry a huge punishment and very stiff sentence.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 19, 2009 06:04 PM (A46hP)

I have proposed that every instance of voter fraud disenfranchises every legal voter. Therefore, there should be hundreds of thousands of counts, because every person who commits voter fraud is committing a crime against every legal voter in the state/district.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 19, 2009 06:18 PM (T0NGe)

112 Republican Commissioner Deborah Pahler said that the machines kept "freezing up... like Windows does all the time," and that they experienced several paper jams as well.

Freezing up? Paper jams?

Sakes, don't they test these things under simulated real-world conditions before putting them into use?

Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque at November 19, 2009 06:20 PM (jV9DU)

113 I have proposed that every instance of voter fraud disenfranchises every legal voter. Therefore, there should be hundreds of thousands of counts, because every person who commits voter fraud is committing a crime against every legal voter in the state/district.

Posted by: AmishDude at November 19, 2009 06:18 PM (T0NGe)

I agree that the cases should be treated as serious crimes against all citizens. Our electoral processes form the bases of many of our government functions and crimes against them need to be as severe as possible. Listing the counts against individual voters would run into problems when we start getting the ACORN plaintiffs of Mickey Mouse showing up on the list of aggrieved voters

Unfortunately, we have judiciaries (state and federal) that were happy to claim that even having ineligible candidates on the ballots didn't harm any of the voters, thereby not even allowing that they have any standing on the matter - with many on the right agreeing with those assessments.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 19, 2009 06:34 PM (A46hP)

114
When these jokers wanted to pass more entitlements and the unconstitutional McCain-Feingold they managed to twist arms to do so.

How hard is it to convince a lefty to vote for something leftist? Not hard at all.

But try convincing a lefty to vote for something that ISN'T leftist, and all hell breaks loose. These are people who consider a reduction in the rate of growth a "cut".

This phenomena creates the "ratchet effect" that moves us towards statism.

Posted by: Rob Crawford at November 19, 2009 06:42 PM (ZJ/un)

115

The Constitution is already shredded.

This kind of comment so pisses me off. It is a eeeeeyore attitude of giving up and giving in. Quit sitting on your fat ass and taking it between the teeth! Get up and fight for what we want. Do you expect others to do it for you? The libs are ready for your membership card!

Posted by: rightzilla at November 19, 2009 06:52 PM (rVJH4)

116 How hard is it to convince a lefty to vote for something leftist? Not hard at all.

But try convincing a lefty to vote for something that ISN'T leftist, and all hell breaks loose. These are people who consider a reduction in the rate of growth a "cut".

This phenomena creates the "ratchet effect" that moves us towards statism.

This is why I said that the Constitution is already shredded.

This is also why education and culture are more important thrones of power than who's in Congress or the big boy chair in the White House.

People who've been told their whole lives that there is such a thing as a free lunch will fall for this crap every damn time.

It's why I hope that if the Palin/Rubio wing of the party comes out on top of this intraparty tussle, and Gaia willing, gets back a smidge of power, will actually govern like they should, or at least nibble around the edges of this behemoth and apply a few bandages to the gaping wounds.

Posted by: nightwitch at November 19, 2009 07:01 PM (HFFM8)

117 Come on folks, PLEASE!! We know the (real) Republicans are going to take this Congressional seat back in 2010. In the meantime, let's NOT sound like the Daily Kos asshol*s who (still) have posts about a voting machine in the 12th ward in Cleveland Ohio which was proved to be rigged, thereby giving the vote to George Bush and thereby defeating John Kerry who would otherwise be President of the U.S. blah. blah, blah...........

Let's act like adults o.k.?? For whatever reason (e.g. the Republican RNC and others), we LOST NY CD 23. Let's just live with that fact until Nov 4 of next year. All of us can come up with reasons as to why we "really" won - but when all is said and done, at the end of the day, that doesn't count.

Instead of looking/sounding like a bunch of Daily Kos idiots, let's just 'suck it up' and make sure November of next year tells an entirely different story.nm the meantime, why waste the effort in trying to change history. Who cares???

Posted by: alwyr at November 19, 2009 07:06 PM (Ngf0i)

118 This kind of comment so pisses me off. It is a eeeeeyore attitude of giving up and giving in. Quit sitting on your fat ass and taking it between the teeth! Get up and fight for what we want.

I'm not giving up, I'm dealing with the reality that this country hasn't been governed as the founders intended for a loooong fucking time now.

You don't know me, so don't pretend to.

I've fought within my own family, turning my sister and brother-in-law to the dark side, there's two votes the dems will never get, mwuahaah! My firefighter brother's next!

I've fought on the local level, volunteering my time to help elect good people to small offices. I've sent hand-written letters (Dick Morris is right) and donation checks to my state attorney general, to try to push him for voter ID laws. Which he fought for in the Supreme Court, and won!

I've fought on the national level, giving money to good guys on our side like Rubio, Hoffman, Bachmann, etc. I made time to attend a tea party and had a great time.

But none of this negates the fact that our Constitution has been shredded, and that we should learn the lessons of the Bush years. If you can't do anything positive to advance liberty, don't make it worse with statist spending "solutions".

Posted by: nightwitch at November 19, 2009 07:18 PM (HFFM8)

119 Hugo did a good job setting up those machines.

Posted by: Limo Driver at November 19, 2009 08:08 PM (eA3tl)

120 A virus called ACORN.

Posted by: drjohn at November 19, 2009 08:23 PM (HXRkG)

121

(1) Windows does not freeze up all the time.

(2) Scantron works and can be counted by hand.

Posted by: Mikey NTH at November 19, 2009 09:40 PM (TUWci)

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Posted by: mojo at November 19, 2009 11:22 PM (5MA1v)

123 The only solution to this, in my eyes, is to have the election all over again.

I'm sorry, New York, I know it costs money to do that, but computer viruses and zeroes for the one guy who ran against ACORN, et al? Democracy is worth a little expense. We should just have paper ballots, and perhaps cameras on the election workers, to make sure they don't cheat again.

It was shady enough that the ACORN republican quit at the last second to endorse the ACORN democrat, but this is crossing the line. Viruses?

Posted by: The Nobel Peace Prize Committee (NPPC) at November 19, 2009 11:36 PM (3Okxb)

124 And how long has it been since Windows was commonly freezing up? 10 years?

If your voting machines are commonly doing this, you need to return them for a refund. Part of the problem with this election was that the count was rushed. Paper ballots, and silence until all the votes are counted, including the absentee ballots.

Let's have an entire election all over again, and again and again, until they get it right. Let's teach these bastards a lesson. Anyone involved in this fraud should be forbidden from touching this stuff again.

Posted by: The Nobel Peace Prize Committee (NPPC) at November 19, 2009 11:38 PM (3Okxb)

125 You know, they still have these machines. I say they back date them to election day, and enter 100 votes for each candidate, and see what the machine says they entered.

Posted by: The Nobel Peace Prize Committee (NPPC) at November 19, 2009 11:40 PM (3Okxb)

126 I see a couple of folks saying there's no federal election, so reforms have to be state reforms.

That's not true. The feds are the source for most of the problems. The DOJ stopped virginia from checking ID, let the black panthers swing their sticks, and have all kinds of rules about what kind of machines we can use.

It's critical to all of us that our elections are clean. We need some serious reforms, at the federal level, enforced strictly, with mandatory minimum sentences for any level of voter fraud, including false registrations, in excess of 5 years.

Posted by: The Nobel Peace Prize Committee (NPPC) at November 20, 2009 12:36 AM (3Okxb)

127 A manual recount - then Hoffman would get no votes.

Posted by: davod at November 20, 2009 03:11 AM (GUZAT)

128 Funny how the errors only seem to go one way ...huh

roflmao

Posted by: donabernathy at November 20, 2009 04:59 AM (k3zBV)

129

Nightwitch. Thanks for the schooling. Glad to see that I misinterpreted your comment. I agree the Constitution is being torn to bits by the OBAMAites.....I simply read your post as you saying that as a result, let's give up. My apologies.

Posted by: rightzilla at November 20, 2009 09:50 AM (rVJH4)

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Posted by: somah at November 20, 2009 12:41 PM (Zv8Md)

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