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NYT: Europe Whines That Obama's a Distant and Cold Boyfriend

I don't know what is more appalling: The way Europe continues to whine for attention, or the fact that Obama is giving the back of the hand to still-somewhat-serious nations.

The enemy of my enemy is also my enemy, but an enemy that's fun to quote.

Now, Denis MacShane, a former British minister for Europe, who met with other Atlanticists at the NATO Parliamentary Assembly in Edinburgh over the weekend, describes the circumstances this way: “There’s a growing worry everywhere in Europe that we have the first U.S. president since 1945 to show no interest in what’s happening on this side of the relationship.”

...

;The Administration's attitude is] not what you’d call an embrace. It’s reinforcement for the idea that the president over his first year in office has shunned, or taken for granted, Europe’s initial burst of affection for him. The fallout — either attributed to the private comments of European leaders, or reflected in major editorial voices — is an expression of skepticism about Mr. Obama’s capabilities and the depth of the change he claims to represent.

In Germany, the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, a newspaper that knows Chancellor Angela Merkel well, has written ironically of how little has changed, outside atmospherics, from the Bush to Obama administrations in attitudes toward Germany.....

In France, the tone has been harsher. Olivier Debouzy, a lawyer and former French Foreign Ministry official, wrote last week that foreign governments were “opaque” for Mr. Obama because he projected his own notion of American rationality on them. Mr. Debouzy asserted that the president also showed a sense of his and America’s superiority to foreign leaders.

“He expresses this by holding himself at a distance from them, which is unusual for an American political figure,” Mr. Debouzy wrote. “It makes personal relations with him complicated, a fact attested to by more than one European chief of state or government.”

The current issue of Le Canard Enchaîné, the controversy-loving French political weekly, which specializes in putting direct quotes into the mouths of French politicians — regarded with interest here although not as verbatim scripture — has President Nicolas Sarkozy saying:

“The truth is that Bush was more interested in Europe than Obama. Obama is very disappointing in terms of foreign policy. It’s not only with me that relations are difficult. It’s the same with Merkel and Brown. The words have changed. The hand was extended. But no one has grasped it.”

The French, it's noted, view Obama as "stalling" on Iran and "dithering" on Afghanistan.

Well, they sure hated the hip-shootin' cowboy from Texas, didn't they? They got what they said they wanted and they hate that even more.

Posted by: Ace at 03:31 PM



Comments

1 All activities not directly related to stealing trillions for political allies or progressively shutting down this country are, ultimately, distractions.

Posted by: joeindc44 at November 16, 2009 03:33 PM (QxSug)

2 Dodged a bullet.  That snowbilly wouldn't have made the whole world love us again like Barry is.

Posted by: HeatherRadish at November 16, 2009 03:34 PM (NtiET)

3 The Europeans, so predictable.

Posted by: rawmuse at November 16, 2009 03:35 PM (LK+Jr)

4 Be careful what you wish for...

Serves them right, now they might have to grow their own backbone.

Posted by: Mjim at November 16, 2009 03:35 PM (V8B//)

5 Like my late father-in-law told my wife after we'd been married a year or two:

"You wanted him, you're stuck with him."

Still, it's funny to watch the Euros with the buyers remorse, like they couldn't just ask themselves, 'hey, wait, maybe he's just a smooth-talking incompetent,' while he was getting their bra off.

Posted by: nickless at November 16, 2009 03:35 PM (MMC8r)

6

Posted by: Mjim at November 16, 2009 03:36 PM (V8B//)

7

They're just pissed because Barry didn't bow for them.

Posted by: TheQuietman at November 16, 2009 03:37 PM (1Jaio)

8 I'll just send them an iPod with a collection of my greatest speeches on it.  They'll be fine.

Posted by: Obama the Magnificent at November 16, 2009 03:37 PM (xxgag)

9 The world loves to see America humiliated and weakened.

Until America is actually.....ummmmm.....weak.

Notice the world starting to get a little nervous now?

Posted by: Dave at November 16, 2009 03:37 PM (Xm1aB)

10 How the hell did i post a blank during a refresh? Them tubes be clogged!

Posted by: Mjim at November 16, 2009 03:38 PM (V8B//)

11 Barack, call us!

Posted by: Europe at November 16, 2009 03:39 PM (erIg9)

12 Hey Euros, you should have kept your monarchies so Odipshit would have someone to bow to.

Posted by: Waterhouse at November 16, 2009 03:40 PM (VpMnC)

13 Let's not jump to conclusions.

Posted by: Barry O-bow-ma at November 16, 2009 03:40 PM (6268o)

14 Remember when Barry O was going to repair our image with America's allies? Sure is going well ain't it Europe?

Posted by: taylork at November 16, 2009 03:40 PM (4jZ56)

15

Of course Barry doesn't love you. You're the bastion of whiteness and you conquered Africa.

I mean, COME ON! Grow a fuckin' brain already!

Posted by: Dack Thrombosis at November 16, 2009 03:42 PM (P33XN)

16 Oh Barry, you can't be the man I fell in love with! What happened to you!? [sob]

Posted by: Madame Europa at November 16, 2009 03:42 PM (RD7QR)

17 The Europeans are never happy.

They used to express this unhappiness by killing each other.

Now they do it largely by complaining.

Whatever the drawbacks, at least this way they're easier to ignore.

Posted by: Andrew the Noisy at November 16, 2009 03:42 PM (V0QP1)

18 Payback, she is one stern bitch....

Posted by: GuyfromNH at November 16, 2009 03:42 PM (IQWiJ)

19 The Europeans are acting stupidly.

Posted by: Barry O-bow-ma at November 16, 2009 03:43 PM (6268o)

20 The truly funny part is that Europe was too stupid to understand the obvious fact that, just after the US, The Precedent hates Europe almost as much (as the Indonesian imbecile has a thirst to exact revenge on all of Western civilization). Europe, of course, is full of retards who tried their darndest to goad Americans into voting for the America-hater ... and now they will have to suffer for their stupidity. Europe has not made a single decent decision of import in over 100 years, now. It's amazing that they're still alive, frankly, though with the US support pulled out, now, that might change rather quickly.

Needless to say, the next time Europe is in a jam, I would hope that not a single bit of US effort is expended in order to save them. Europe is like a drowning spaz who will grab ahold and pull down any idiot who tries to save him. Let him sink to the bottom on his own.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 16, 2009 03:45 PM (A46hP)

21 "The world loves to see America humiliated and weakened.

Until America is actually.....ummmmm.....weak."

+1

Europe: "What, you aren't really going to let Afghanistan and Iraq fall to the jihadis are you? And you surely aren't going to let Iran get the Bomb are you? Wait! Wait! These places are a lot closer to us than to you!"

Posted by: Realist at November 16, 2009 03:45 PM (QJzQi)

22 "......because (Obama) projected his own notion of American rationality on them. Mr. Debouzy asserted that the president also showed a sense of his and America’s superiority to foreign leaders.

“He expresses this by holding himself at a distance from them, which is unusual for an American political figure,” Mr. Debouzy wrote. “It makes personal relations with him complicated, a fact attested to by more than one European chief of state or government.”

Sounds like a good description of a cowboy to me.



Posted by: FreakyBoy at November 16, 2009 03:47 PM (4s1it)

23 ...personal relations...

The only "personal relationships" a narcissist can ever have are with mirrors and DVD's of their own speeches.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at November 16, 2009 03:48 PM (rKTll)

24 "The world loves to see America humiliated and weakened.

Until America is actually.....ummmmm.....weak  flat broke."

FIFY

Posted by: paranoid polly at November 16, 2009 03:50 PM (r7Vc3)

25

"...foreign governments were “opaque” for Mr. Obama because he projected his own notion of American rationality on them."

I think we're all finding out Barack's "notion of American rationality" and it isn't American or Rational.

Join the effing F-Troop club you ficken chuckin Euros.

Posted by: Huckleberry at November 16, 2009 03:51 PM (s2bW4)

26 At least he was *ahem* satisfying, for a while, at least.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at November 16, 2009 03:51 PM (ZGhSv)

27 Uggggg!

Posted by: RobD at November 16, 2009 03:52 PM (sV3Dv)

28

“There’s a growing worry everywhere in Europe that we have the first U.S. president since 1945 to show no interest in what’s happening on this side of the relationship.”

eerr; hmm 

actually after all the shrieking by Liberals during Bush years this  comment is quite fascinating.

Posted by: willow at November 16, 2009 03:55 PM (GkYyh)

29 There is a new man in town and he wears Mom Pants. What self respecting European could even think of embracing that image? mmm....mmm....mmmmm.

Posted by: rightzilla at November 16, 2009 03:57 PM (rVJH4)

30 Barak to Europe, " as I've always said, i'm just not that into you."

Posted by: willow at November 16, 2009 03:58 PM (GkYyh)

31 well they hated GW and didnt want a Clinton back
live with it EU we have to
thanks for all the Obamahype, fools

Posted by: ginaswo/MiM at November 16, 2009 03:59 PM (qvtkZ)

32 If I am correctly imformed, the Japanese media are embarrassed by our President.

What a twit.

Posted by: Dave at November 16, 2009 03:59 PM (Xm1aB)

33 Willow to Europe, "Thanks for all the Help over the Last Decades ,enjoy , the fruits of Your Labor."

Posted by: willow at November 16, 2009 04:01 PM (GkYyh)

34

Mocked by the French as less interested in Europe than Bush.

Thomas Friedman wept.

Posted by: Orlando Choiseul at November 16, 2009 04:01 PM (PD1tk)

35 At first he was so special, so tall and regal, not like that rough cowboy. Then he started walking around with his nose in the air and made me sleep in the wet spot and...and...the magic is gone [snifffffff].

Posted by: Madame Europa at November 16, 2009 04:02 PM (RD7QR)

36

Hey, Europe's been bitching for a long time that we interfere in their business.  Now we don't do anything and they're complaining that we're not there for them.  Make up your mind already!

Now that they have this "big, bad and improved" EU, they should have no problems funding a gigundulous multi-national (and probably multicultural) military they've been wanting to do for a long time (think EuroCorps).

Posted by: Mat at November 16, 2009 04:07 PM (d8AS2)

37

“The truth is that Bush was more interested in Europe than Obama. Obama is very disappointing in terms of foreign policy. It’s not only with me that relations are difficult. It’s the same with Merkel and Brown. The words have changed. The hand was extended. But no one has grasped it.”

Bwhahahaha!  Although in defense of Teh Bamster, there are only so many hours in a day.  He is just so busy and exhausting himself by all the outreach he's doing to various thug dictators and tyrants of color, he just doesn't have time for "Old Whiteys".  I'm sure they'll understand.

Posted by: runningrn at November 16, 2009 04:09 PM (qP2BK)

38 Perhaps the Eurotrash's hankies wouldn't be so wet if Barry bowed to them more often. But they're too white, so he doesn't. Not much to be done about that, Euroweenies.

Posted by: George Orwell at November 16, 2009 04:09 PM (AZGON)

39

“There’s a growing worry everywhere in Europe that we have the first U.S. president since 1945 to show no interest in what’s happening on this side of the relationship. anything of consequence.

FIFY

Posted by: Mallamutt at November 16, 2009 04:09 PM (V9SYy)

40 Be careful what you wish for.

Posted by: kefka at November 16, 2009 04:17 PM (n1uMU)

41 Mr. Debouzy asserted that the president also showed a sense of his and America’s superiority to foreign leaders.

Oh, GOOD GRIEF.

What more does he have to do to prove what a Good Post-American President he is, publicly fellate Sarkozy on the steps of of the Louvre? Didn't practically just do as much for the Emperor of Japan (Certainly, his head was heading straight towards the Imperial Junk).

The Euroweenies can never be treated as "important enough" to their satisfaction, because in their heart of hearts they know the truth they can never utter out loud: Europe essentially destroyed herself in two world wars that stripped her first of her colonies, then her religion, soon thereafter her manliness, and finally her self-respect. It's a dying place, being repopulated by the much more vibrant culture of the Muslims. (Yeah, I know that "vibrant Muslims" is an oxymoron, but it shows you just how deep the rot at the heart of European civilization has become that it can't even hold its own against a demographic group firmly stuck in the 6th century).

No matter HOW much Obama grovels before these pitiful people, they'll always whine that he didn't mean it, 'cause he didn't give them that extra squeeze & lick, to get the last drop out.

Posted by: CoolCzech at November 16, 2009 04:17 PM (QECjC)

42

BWAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

As I recall, virtually everyone in Europe favored Obama over the "cowboy" Bush.  You wanted a narcisstic man-child in the White Hourse, Europe?  You wanted a democrat, a liberal, someone who would use "soft power"?  You wanted someone who would not say "you are with us or you are with the terrorists"? 

Congratulations, now you have him.  Enjoy.  You might consider actually spending some more money on defence, now.  Oh, and all those unassimilated Muslims in you cities?  Yeah, they actually might be jihadists in waiting.  Just thought you would like to know.

 

Posted by: BattleofthePyramids at November 16, 2009 04:18 PM (OaR8H)

43 Wait until they find out that the unicorn ain't real and Skittles rot your teeth.

Of course, the Brits have that latter point mooted already.

Posted by: George Orwell at November 16, 2009 04:19 PM (AZGON)

44

When the Obama's were in London last summer, they posed with the queen & prince (towered over them actually) but I don't recall any bowing.

Europe better wake up and figure out that they have been invited to dinner, and they ARE the dinner.  For years Europe has been offering up Israel on a silver platter to Israel's enemies, all that hot air about how there should be a two-state solution with the Palestinians in charge, or worse a one-state solution where Israel just disappears.  Europe has been on the side of the jihadis in the middle east for decades now.  Have the Europeans figured out they are now in the position of Israel and Obama is more than happy to bargain away Europe's security.  Iran will get the bomb if it doesn't already have it, and at that point the world changes in ways too horrible to imagine. 

Posted by: Boots at November 16, 2009 04:19 PM (06JTY)

45

Euros haven't been sucking up to him enough, honestly. Sure, they gave him the Nobel, but the English Journos have been calling him names..... Anyway, what's in it for him after the Nobel anyway? A coupla scenic speeches? Pfft. What's the point, he already has their votes.

I think the reason Obama hectored China over Internet Freedom is b/c he wants more peeps for his email lists/RSS feeds, more names for ACORN to add to the rolls, more potential donors.

Posted by: Triumph at November 16, 2009 04:19 PM (lDdA/)

46 If life were fair, Europe would have to accept the Indonesian imbecile as the Precedent of the EU (they certainly deserve him) and let us be done with the traitorous retard. Otherwise, our only hope (and Europe's only hope, too, as europe is 100% dependent on us for their continued existence) is to have the usurper thrown out for being OBVIOUSLY Constitutionally ineligible due to his various other citizenships - which the Founders turned over in their graves upon hearing.

Posted by: progressoverpeace at November 16, 2009 04:22 PM (A46hP)

47

Soon, Europe will give up on Obama completely and become interested in that misunderstood vampire in Geometry class.

 

Posted by: Merticus the Misunderstood at November 16, 2009 04:31 PM (kOVZm)

48 That Bruni woman's a bigger bitch than me.

Posted by: Michelles cellulited buttocks at November 16, 2009 04:41 PM (EL+OC)

49 BTW, Europe, those Grecian columns were really made of styrofoam. Some of us figured that out early on.

Posted by: rawmuse at November 16, 2009 04:46 PM (LK+Jr)

50 [blockquote]Congratulations, now you have him. Enjoy. You might consider actually spending some more money on defence, now. Oh, and all those unassimilated Muslims in you cities? Yeah, they actually might be jihadists in waiting. Just thought you would like to know.[/blockquote]

BattleofthePyramids has nailed it on the head. Europe's squishy, retarded head.

Posted by: mokimoki at November 16, 2009 04:53 PM (IrV7s)

51 Re 51: Stupid formatting issues. I dislike Chrome almost as much as I dislike the leftest agenda.

Posted by: mokimoki at November 16, 2009 04:58 PM (IrV7s)

52 Dear Europe,

I love you but I'm not in love with you. If you were hoping for more, you should not have put out on the first date. I can't respect that. That's why I don't call.

Posted by: Barack at November 16, 2009 04:59 PM (17Zlu)

53

“There’s a growing worry everywhere in Europe that we have the first U.S. president since 1945 to show no interest in what’s happening on this side of the relationship.”

Tough.....he only likes us for our money.

 

Posted by: American People at November 16, 2009 05:02 PM (G+Wff)

54 Europe?

Well, you know.

Posted by: Charles Gibson at November 16, 2009 05:02 PM (0Wf6c)

55

Well, they sure hated the hip-shootin' cowboy from Texas, didn't they? They got what they said they wanted and they hate that even more.

I'm sure they were hoping the same thing the Dems, the NYT, etc, etc were hoping: now that a Democrat (a magical Democrat) is in office, terrorists will just go back to their day jobs as grocers, store owners, prog rock bass players, etc.

Posted by: BeckoningChasm at November 16, 2009 05:04 PM (eNxMU)

56 Mr. Debouzy asserted that the president also showed a sense of his and America’s superiority to foreign leaders.

What these idiots don't get is that Obama doesn't think that America is superior - in fact as a white-ish nation, he thinks that America is, like Europe, inferior - Obama just believes that HE is superior. These poor EUnuchs are mistaking personal arrogance for national arrogance.   

Posted by: Holdfast at November 16, 2009 05:09 PM (Gzb30)

57 Pot, meet Kettle...

Posted by: Alex Jones at November 16, 2009 05:12 PM (Vz1WE)

58 Where are the “General Betray Us” ads, offered at a reduced rate in the New York Times? Are we going to see an entire subculture—Michael Moore, novels, docu-dramas, comedians, etc.—slamming Obama on the war? Or, in contrast, an entire populist, in the streets, protest over Obama voting “present” while he goes to Copenhagen instead of meeting with Gen. McChrystal? Cannot the media see that the surge in Iraq—little public support, defections in Bush’s own party, a hostile media, demagoguery from the left, campaign distortions by the likes of Obama himself—was the far harder call than granting a troop request in Afghanistan? Why was Bush’s tough call “doomed” in a “lost” war, while Obama’s “present” vote is seen as sober and judicious?

Posted by: wrg at November 16, 2009 05:26 PM (7t+Ws)

59

It's impossible for chocolate box Europe not to like our chocolate president! Bush's weather machine must be responsible for this.

Posted by: ray nagin at November 16, 2009 05:33 PM (2qU2d)

60 Well lets see here.

Obama hates England, so he hates Brown (who is tainted with the Bush years anyway).

Sarkozy is a right winger by French standards, so Obama doesn't like him. Remember when the president reached out to former French president Chirac instead of the current one?

Ditto Merkel, right wing by German standards. It's not that he's distant to Europe, he just hates these guys for not being ideologically pure enough.

Posted by: Christopher taylor at November 16, 2009 05:34 PM (PQY7w)

61

So much for rebuilding our relationships with our allies.

Of course, first the Administration would have to know who our allies are.

Posted by: Mikey NTH at November 16, 2009 05:35 PM (TUWci)

62 I'm torn.  On the one hand I think the European intelligentsia is thoroughly American-hating and really deserves the back of our hand.  On the other, the people of some of these countries and their leaders have been good to us.  Merkel and Sarkozy are a damn sight better than Shroeder and Chirac.  Tusk in Poland and Klaus in the Czech Republic would certainly be willing to work with us.

Britain didn't really have to back us in Iraq and Afghanistan.  Yes, Brown is a dangerous fool, and he's continuing the destruction of British civil society that Blair started.  But damnit, the people of Britain shed blood in those hellholes and deserve our gratitude.

Posted by: Ace's liver at November 16, 2009 05:36 PM (XIXhw)

63 Dear Europe,

Your balls are still in a lock box on Iceland.

STFU or go unlock them and make for your own defense against evil-doers. Bambi is cutting to the bone, so that means you guys are on your own.

Posted by: Sgt. Rock at November 16, 2009 05:46 PM (2jp4I)

64 That lad of a President is quite a dickhead, offering the Queen an Ipod and all. I remember leading a squad to take the Garrison in Shelbyville. Little did we know, that the local custom was to wear an onion upon ones' Bandolier, or as you Yanks call it a "belt". Well, as we approached our target...................

Posted by: Johnathon Hayle Higgins III at November 16, 2009 05:57 PM (fisRF)

65 Hmmm, it looks like Europe actually prefers the white meat to the dark meat.  Who knew?

Posted by: runningrn at November 16, 2009 06:00 PM (qP2BK)

66
Maybe the French and the rest of europe will figure out that a fucking cowboy fucking gets shit done.  The kinda shit they can never and will never do.  The whole fucking conglomeration of half-assed nations that can only survive by banding together as some kind of an international cluster-fuck act like some fat-assed old sack of shit in a moo-moo sitting on the couch complaining about how the neighbors need to mow their lawn.  Fuck you europe.  Eat a big plate full of islamo-shit.  You fucking imported it,  now eat it.

Posted by: zerO at November 16, 2009 06:03 PM (UA4gE)

67 Hey Europe if you're smart...ssssshhhh!  Seriously, or BO's gonna find some way to tax your asses, too.

Posted by: wth at November 16, 2009 06:09 PM (wAQA5)

68 But..but....but....Barry's people tell us that the Eruo's LOVE Him.

Posted by: GarandFan at November 16, 2009 06:17 PM (ZQBnQ)

69

I'm not going to bother looking for the link, but a Canadian MSM source (probably the Toronto Red Star) was bitching a few days ago about how Canadians would have overwhelmingly voted for Obama according to polls then and recently, but The One wasn't doing anything to fight protectionism and the Buy American policies. Assholes.

Posted by: andycanuck at November 16, 2009 06:17 PM (2qU2d)

70 Europe has just realized that its on its own and has to grow a pair of its own.   They'll be begging for a cowboy next time around.

Posted by: Dan F at November 16, 2009 06:20 PM (nyFP6)

71

“We don’t kill our enemies. We get our enemies to kill each other.”

-- Black Mutant from Beneath the Planet of the Apes

 

Works for me.

Posted by: lordsomber at November 16, 2009 06:25 PM (lV03n)

72 F*ck, I missed the Euro thread???

F*ck, F*ck...I loooove bashing those Brussel Sprout Buro's!!!


I'm so sad...

Posted by: Sofia at November 16, 2009 06:29 PM (fvEfJ)

73

In the wiki entry for Akhito, there is a photo of VP Cheney meeting the Emperor in 2007.  Both men are standing upright and shaking hands.  I doubt the State Department protocol shop and its advice had changed much between 2007 and 2009.

Posted by: Mikey NTH at November 16, 2009 06:34 PM (TUWci)

74 Re#62 Mikey NTH
"So much for rebuilding our relationships with our allies.
Of course, first the Administration would have to know who our allies are."

Oh, he knows.  They're the ones he treats like shit.  He only respects our enemies.

Posted by: RayJ at November 16, 2009 06:51 PM (//Bcg)

75 In this one regard, I can actually say I'm giving Obama a pass -- I don't think it's a wise foreign policy move particularly, but watching the Eurotards slowly recognize that the guy they loved so much (because they thought he'd kowtow to them in particular and run America into the ground -- the latter of which he seems to be accomplishing, but at a price to them, short sighted weasels that they are) will like as not flush them too, if not before America...that's some sweet, sweet schadenfreude right there --- tastes good, mmm, mmm, mmm.

Posted by: unknown jane at November 16, 2009 07:07 PM (5/yRG)

76 And no, outside of a bit of snarkiness, I'm torn for the same reasons you are @63.

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80

Disagree they got want they wanted.  The MSM led one to believe Bush caused dissention and ruined our reputation around the globe.  Not true.

 

Did'nt Frances' Sarkozy beat the "Hillaryish" candidate?  Was'nt Anna Merkel of Germany pro US?

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We engage them and we're arrogant cowboys.

We hold them at arms length and we're arrogant isolationists.

 

Pardon my French, but Fuck 'Em All and the horse they rode in on. Bunch of whiney Euroweenies, has-beens, and never-weres. Looks like green-eyed jealousy to me. Butt biscuits.

 

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Boo-effin'-hoo.  I don't give a hairy rat's what Europe, Asia or anyone else thinks of the U. S.  They're nothing without American consumers. 

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Hey, no, this is serious.  Obama is seriously thinking Club Europe is just so Bush Era and lame and stuff.  France took him a pie she baked, his favorite, and Obama just stood at the front door and said yeah thanks for the pie like he really didn't mean it and didn't even ask her in and like brushed her off.  Then the next day, France drove down the alley behind Obama's house and saw his dog eating her pie on the back step.  Obama didn't even give her the pie plate back or say hey thanks for the pie or nothing.

Anyway, France is crushed and in tears.  She didn't really like him but she kinda wanted to date him so she could drop him but she didn't expect this at all.  Not at all.

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