1 What are you doing up so late?

2 Homo no mo?

3 Looks like Dana Carvey was about fifteen years ahead of his time in warning the world about us.

4 Can we vote on Obamacare next? Please?

5 Gay marriage should be subject to a vote. Sometimes it wins, sometimes it does not.

That's the way it should be.

6 Ever since my wife and I got married it has been the "same sex" every night.

7 The fierce urgency of now ... or something.

Lightworker!

8 To be fair, I think that their concern is that 20 years down the road opposing gay marriage will become a net loss in terms of votes. It would be nice if they would just say that though, instead of pretending that it's a road to popularity now.

9 Here in Seattle we basically just passed the opposite.
Balance.

10 Thanks for reporting a loss on the con side, Ace.

According to the Holy Roman Conservatives, any reporting on a conservative loss is squish. Therefore, Thou art banned in some weird reverso-fashion!

11 Sometimes it wins, sometimes it does not.

Gay Marriage won once before?

12 Gay marriage should be subject to a vote. Sometimes it wins, sometimes it does not.

That's the way it should be.

Posted by: eman at November 04, 2009 01:39 AM (j+aj1)

No, it never wins, anywhere, not where the people vote on it directly.

But yet Repunblicans all over DC think they should be champtioning "gay rights" for some reason or another. Maybe it's wonderful effect on killing Christian denominations that has such appeal.

13 Olby just told Beck to go to hell, like 3 times. What a man!

14 "Gay marriage should be subject to a vote. Sometimes it wins, sometimes it does not. "

It never wins in a popular vote. It is 0 for 31 so far.

15 I meant it may win sometimes.

16 Here in Seattle we basically just passed the opposite.
Balance.

Posted by: Mr. Pissed at November 04, 2009 01:45 AM (EL+OC)

Barely by 3% of the vote and it specifically noted "except it will not be called marriage". Without that it goes down to defeat in Washington too.

17

Posted by: Rocks at November 04, 2009 01:47 AM (MTcoh)

it's all they got left tonight, Facebook dem friend suddenly imed me and told me i was overblowing the wins blah blah and when i made fun of his talking points all he had was "lies" and "stupid ass"

18 It's difficult to oppose the domestic partnership angle, even if it's full marriage in all but name.  But you start trying to redefine basic and foundational societal terms, you're gonna lose. 

Life does not need to and should not change so that 3-5% of the population can feel better about their deviation from the norm.

19

Oh, and by the way, we quickly have to embrace gay marriage because opposing it is so obviously a losing issue.

I mean, the anti-gay-marriage forces can only manage a bare majority in the Deep South states of California and Maine.

Again, I lol'd.

With the exception of the Hoffman disappointment, tonight has been simply FABULOUS!

20

First question, are my eyes fucked up, or is the print like huge?

Second question, how did Cali-10 shake out? Did the Republican at least make a decent showing?

21 "Gay marriage should be subject to a vote. Sometimes it wins, sometimes it does not."

No, it never wins. The only time it "wins" is when a court comprised of unelected judges who were appointed for life imposes it by fiat, or when a state legislature votes for it after it's already been semi-imposed. The PEOPLE never support it, even in blue states like CA and ME.

Civil unions is a different story, of course. But even civil unions don't exactly win by landslides. See the vote in Washington state tonight. Washington state is a blue state, and civil unions passed there by about 2 - 4 percent.

22 Ever since my wife and I got married it has been the "same sex" every night.

Heh.

23 Thanks for reporting a loss on the con side, Ace.

According to the Holy Roman Conservatives, any reporting on a conservative loss is squish. Therefore, Thou art banned in some weird reverso-fashion!

Read harder.

24 I guess this ruins David Brooks and David Frum's prospects for eternal nuptial bliss in Maine.

25 By CQ-Roll Call Staff Cq-roll Call Staff – 43 mins ago

Lt. Gov. John Garamendi kept California's 10th Congressional District in Democratic hands, easily winning the special election to fill an open seat.

With more than a quarter of the precincts reporting, Garamendi was ahead by 16 points over Republican opponent David Harmer. He had 56 percent of the vote compared with 40 percent for Harmer, a lawyer.

26 CA-10 the Dem is up 13% with 55% of precincts in.

27 It's difficult to oppose the domestic partnership angle, even if it's full marriage in all but name.  But you start trying to redefine basic and foundational societal terms, you're gonna lose. 

Life does not need to and should not change so that 3-5% of the population can feel better about their deviation from the norm.

I would have taken me 7 paragraphs to state what you just did in 3 sentences.

Tell me you have a blog!

28 Yes, but how does South American Gabe feel about this?  It's a civil war in the Republican party.  ace you need to get some moral authority on this topic before you write a post like this, you know, like testicles Spiderman.

Oh, and ban Blazer.

29 At least its not Hall Sex.
Hall Sex: When you pass each other in the hallway and you each say to each other "f#ck you!"

30 He had 56 percent of the vote compared with 40 percent for Harmer, a lawyer.

interesting cause that district went to Obama w/ 64% of the vote & Boxer in 2004 w/ 60% of the vote

31 CA-10 wind for Garamendi means that more of that wonderful political and fiscal acumen that has California circling the drain is about to be writ large on the Federal level.

32 "Second question, how did Cali-10 shake out? Did the Republican at least make a decent showing?"

Not really. The Republican lost pretty big. But it's a leftist district (near San Francisco) in a blue state, so it's really not surprising at all. Also, the Democrat candidate is the Lieutenant Governor of CA, whereas the GOP candidate is someone I've never even heard of. I'm sure the GOPer was outspent by a huge margin, and obviously didn't have the same level of name recognition.

33 California voters absolutely kill me. They are flat broke. They just think do the same old thing and think the money will magically appear.

34 It looks like the British have their own version of teabagging.  Apparently it is something called Nutt Sacking:

Nutt sacking 'threat to all expert advisers'

35 "California voters absolutely kill me. They are flat broke. They just think do the same old thing and think the money will magically appear."

It's magical thinking.

If Democrats understood basic economics, they wouldn't be Democrats anymore.

36 Actually the difference in CA-10 is down to 11% at this point. Considering the District and the high profile and cash of the Dem had if it goes below 10% I think the Repubs can claim at least a moral victory.

37 Two great victories in VA & NJ, and to cap off a fantastic night, the voters of Maine have joined every other state that has had a marriage referendum and rejected the redefinition of the term "marriage" by the government.  What a marvelous election evening.  Nite everybody!

38 No RJ, no blog.  I gotta work for my daily bread. 

fighting the marriage stuff has been something I've been involved in for years.  We lost the dom ptnsp angle here, but we won on fighting the marriage issue.  Even though our state is sapphire blue and our courts are monolithic.  Marriage was still a bridge too far here, so it's not likely to pass anywhere.  THe issue mobilizes highly interested religious volunteers from both sides of the aisle, and the fight over basic definitional terms is something the average joe can grasp. 

I'll post my standard manifesto in a second

39 "Two great victories in VA & NJ, and to cap off a fantastic night, the voters of Maine have joined every other state that has had a marriage referendum and rejected the redefinition of the term "marriage" by the government.  What a marvelous election evening.  Nite everybody!"

Yup. But the Hoffman thing still bugs me. I donated to the man, and the conservative activists in the media (Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh) as well as potential Republican Presidential candidates (Sarah Palin, Tim Pawlenty) supported him. And he still lost.

I understand why he lost (lack of knowledge about local issues, hostile local and national media, third party status, Scuzzlebutt endorsement, etc.), but still. This is going to become a major MSM meme in the near future. The "civil war" in the GOP leading to "far-right" lunatics hijacking the party and securing electoral defeat.

It's going to become a meme. Trust me. That's the main "lesson" the MSM will take from this Election Day.

40 The reason to oppose gay "marriage" is that it will make people drop out of their own culture.

The union of one man and one woman, as the sole self-sustaining procreative unit, is the basic building block of society. Religious people believe it ordained by God (which is enough reason for many), but leaving that aside, a society that fails to encourage (i.e. show exclusive favoritism—yes favoritism) to that basic unit is doomed.

Marriage and child rearing are hard. It's hard to keep marriages together, and having children in non-agrarian societies is far more a burden that a boon, economically. De-emphasizing the value and exclusivity of marriage---as has been done with quickie, no-fault divorces AND gay marriage---devalues the sacrifice individuals make in coming together as a procreative unit.

Will gay marriage result in men leaving their wives for a life of sausage-smoking? Not likely (unless you're an Episcopal priest who's sick of the wife & daughters). But it will, over time, make marriage less valued in society. When marriage is devalued, procreation suffers (as can be seen from the child-rearing difficulties in the age of divorces). When the procreative function is hampered, society itself is imperiled.

Yes, divorce and promiscuity are huge hits against marriage that are already in wide acceptance. But piling worse on top of bad doesn't make the situation any better.

Historically, one might think of Athens as the "one of the most civilized societies . . . " Sure, it was advanced in culture, but at the time of Socrates it was also decadent and foppish, skittish and indecisive, and generally so torn by internal strife and apathy that it crumbled upon itself. So too Rome under the latter Caesars. While you may equate decadence with civilization, it is in fact the slow-motion destruction of all things civilized. Decadence invariably leads to the fall of societies, and the open flowering of homosexuality (more properly, gay cohabitation) in a culture is one of the recurring hallmarks of decadence. That's not a value judgment on homosexuality, that's a historical truth.

The reason gay marriage is such a big deal is that it is a harbinger of societal collapse.

My theory on why this is so is, briefly, that a vast majority of any population is not gay. (at least 95% in the current USA). Many, if not a majority of that 95% find homosexuality distasteful. In a society where gayness is celebrated on the part of a "civilized" elite, you thus have a large segment of the population (perhaps even a large majority) alienated from their own culture. This erodes the civic spirit and displaces the natural feelings of (non-jingoistic) patriotism and love of country that most folks bear for their homeland.

Remove that love of country and people will simply refuse to wage the millions of small battles against chaos that face any culture (from random adults scolding misbehaving children walking down the street [that used to happen a lot, it's virtually non-existent now] to people refusing to help the victim of violent crime when they witness it happening). People simply disconnect from society. Apathy is a culture's deadliest disease.

You ask why. The best answer is that civilization might very well actually depend on it.

Then again, maybe not. But who wants to take that chance if you can see it coming?

41 Thanks all on the Cali update. I never thought it would go R, they do vote themselves "magically," same way they balance budgets. I just hoped it would be at least a knockdown of some of their ideals especially since its a Pelosi district. 10% shakedown or under would be nice..........

42 "fighting the marriage stuff has been something I've been involved in for years.  We lost the dom ptnsp angle here, but we won on fighting the marriage issue.  Even though our state is sapphire blue and our courts are monolithic.  Marriage was still a bridge too far here, so it's not likely to pass anywhere.  THe issue mobilizes highly interested religious volunteers from both sides of the aisle, and the fight over basic definitional terms is something the average joe can grasp."

Well, you should start a blog. You are a pithy writer, and obviously bright. We need more of those.

43 The leftists at HuffPo declare:

"IT'S THE ECONOMY (NOT OBAMA), STUPID

LOL @ leftists

44 It's going to become a meme. Trust me. That's the main "lesson" the MSM will take from this Election Day.

Posted by: RJ at November 04, 2009 02:18 AM (ADbI4)

Hopefully, the NRCC learned something from it.

45 "California voters absolutely kill me. They are flat broke. They just think do the same old thing and think the money will magically appear."

Speaking of Maine, apparently they, too, think money will magically appear.  They voted down a proposition which would limit spending increases to the rate of inflation plus population growth.  All you Maine taxpayers better get out or you're gonna get hosed.

46 I don't want a full-on Glenn Beck-style purging of all moderates from the GOP. However, I also don't want the national party spending hundreds of thousands of dollars supporting a liberal Republican in a district that a center-right Republican could easily win.

Someone needs to talk to Beck, who is - let's just admit it - one of the de facto leaders of the libertarian/conservative movement right now, and because of that has a great deal of influence over the Republican Party.

He needs to be reigned in somewhat. I fully support his going after left-wing Democrats in the Obama administration, and corrupt left-wing organizations, and leftists in the media.

However, he should really spend less time going after Republicans for being ideologically "impure."

The Scuzzlebutt situation in NY-23 was an anomaly. But Beck seems committed to pushing right-wing/libertarian third party challengers all over the country. That can only lead to defeats in races the Republicans would otherwise win. And that would obviously be counter-productive.

So. Does anyone know anyone who has Beck's ear? Because I think he needs a talking to...

47 Beck is in it for Beck.  I assume he will take whatever position will maintain high ratings.   Have you noticed his ratings, lately? 

48 More media bias:

http://tinyurl.com/yzp9rw4

"Democrat wins House seat in heavily GOP area in NY"

Just for the record, the 23rd Congressional district in New York has a Cook Partisan Voting Index of ... GOP +1.

In other words, it's a purplish district. And one that went for Obama in 2008.

But according to the AP, this is a "Republican stronghold." And Scuzzlebutt was a "moderate." And it was the GOP's "right wing" that "pressure[d]" her to withdraw because of her support for "abortion rights."

The MSM is a joke. Why does anyone trust them anymore, especially after their laughably-biased coverage in 2008?

49 37 Two great victories in VA & NJ, and to cap off a fantastic night, the voters of Maine have joined every other state that has had a marriage referendum and rejected the redefinition of the term "marriage" by the government.  What a marvelous election evening.  Nite everybody!

I agree totally.  It's been a good night indeed.

50 The MSM is a joke. Why does anyone trust them anymore, especially after their laughably-biased coverage in 2008?

What makes you think anybody does anymore?  Most thinking people, anyway.

51 Separate: I'm in Westchester County in NY -- and the 3-term county exec Spano [a Dem] got his ass handed to him - Repub Astorino won 58% to 40%.

Very happy about this. If the local Dems can lose here in liberal Westchester.... nice.

52 I was roped into watching the Daily Show tonight.  Guess what their big issue was?  Why, evil 'ol Dick Cheney, and how conveniently forgot stuff about (wait for it....)  The Valerie Plame case!  Yes, that case NEVER gets old!  Who cares that Armitage outed here and didn't get in the least bit of trouble!

Evil Dick Cheney!

I was thinking the whole time, "What about the Obama chick who loves Mao" and "What about the Americorps Inspector General they fired illegally", "That stuff is a LOT more current"

53 NY is crazy town tonight.  In Nassau County the incumbent is eeking by and, hate to say this, but, if the conservative wasn't in the race, the republican would have won easily.  But the Republican was a creepy kinda guy.

54 "Obama notes anniversary of Iran embassy takeover"

55

It's official:

Analysis: Elections not a referendum on Obama

Washington (CNN) -- Victories in New Jersey and Virginia Tuesday provided a major shot in the arm for the Republican Party heading into the 2010 elections, but the Democratic losses of these two governorships should not be interpreted as a significant blow to President Obama.
-------

I'm sure Glad I've got the deciders to tell me what this all means. I couldn't do it without them.

56 Here! I-- I've got an idea. Suppose you agree that he can't actually have babies, not having a womb, which is nobody's fault, not even the Romans', but that he can have the right to have babies.

57

I stayed home. 

58 Voting is a joke.  And the joke, is in your hands.

59

Better be careful with that big font Ace. You’ll get complaints from the font patrol.

60 Mormons strike again!  Mormons pwn the Nation from Coast to Coast! Call out the ANGRY GAY LYNCH MOB OF TOLERANCE AND UNDERSTANDING (TM).

61

Oh noes! It's the attack of the Giant Fonts!

62 Gays in Leather Lynch Posse, moooouuunt up!  Mormon Downeasters stirrin' up intolerance and misunderstanding again!

63 anti-gay-marriage forces can only manage a bare majority in the Deep South states of California and Maine.



 BUT if you are not pro same-sex union between opposite-sex you are not fiscally conservative!

64 Charles McChord saying "by a narrow margin mayor mike keeps his job" and "by a narrow margin chris christie wins">  Sheesh that was a blowout with Christie and if anyone in NYC would have voted then three term mike would have been history.  also, a lot of incumbent dems in small races went down.  Scarborough's teaser was the the honeymoon is over for BO and ABC stressing the BO made 5 campaign appearances for Corzine.

65 we quickly have to embrace gay marriage because opposing it is so obviously a losing issue.

I mean, the anti-gay-marriage forces can only manage a bare majority in the Deep South states of California and Maine.

QFT

66 Most people are perfectly happy to give everything over to gay individuals but the word "marriage".  the fact that they so need that "pound of flesh", the word marriage is what makes a lot of married people, who previously didn't care one way or the other about what gay individuals did with their lives are sudeenly angry and caring deeply  They should just back off demanding the word "marriage" cause it isn't a marriage, no way no how as a marriage is between a man and a woman, period.

67
Flaming anuses?

68 Just looked over at DKos (yeah, I'm a masochist) -- focus is on NY-23 and little else...shocking.  Oh yeah and the victories in NJ and VA?...they mean little.  Pre-dictable.

69 This just proves that we need to ditch those pesky social conservatives in the Northeast.  After all, they just can't win there!

70 Posted this to the other thread, been up all night so might be typos but boy did it makes sense when I heard it:

Wow just heard an amazing exchange.  Guy 1 "who cares about some little hick race in upstate NY?   You were owned and you still don't realize it.  Guy2:  "really how so?  Looks like conservatives made a big stand and the people spoke and you were owned",  Guy 1:  "Can't you see what happened?  While BO was making his 5 trips campaigning for Corzine, Sarah Palin chose a tiny little race in New York upstate and made everyone focus in on that race"  Guy 2:  "well yes which is why she will never win a countrywide office.  She focused in on a race and the people showed her, hoffman lost, her guy lost"  Guy 1:  "you keep thinking that.  You keep thinking that sarah palin actually cared deeply about that race. You keep thinking it was important.  What was done was exposing a republican as being a democrat before they took office and bringing an unknown conservative into the limelight to have a respectable loss".  Guy 2:  "so what, she still lost, period"   guy 1 "let me spell this out for you, Sarah Palin brought attention to the upstate NY race so everyone would suddenly look over their so that Christi could mobilize his forces and have the stunning victory he did, don't you realize that Sarah Palin, ran interfearance and took one for the team?"  Guy 2:  "ugh, you would say that (as he walks away)

71 Oh, and by the way, we quickly have to embrace gay marriage because opposing it is so obviously a losing issue.

This is all Meghan McCain and her ilk talk about.  Well, that and the hateful, bigoted, old, mean Republicans that need to go away. 

This issue has been put on the ballot in 31 states, and has lost in all 31 states.  Meghan really needs to get to work purging the party of these bigots and remaking it to her image.  There's lots of work to be done!

72 You have to admit that the guy made some valid points.  He had already told someone else that this was a concerted effort among newt and Palin and the others, that they "democrated the democrates."  For an inconsequential race since this was a special election.  Could this possibly be true?

73 guest on Imus saying that Bloomberg spent $1900.00 per vote. Sheesh what an utter waste of money when people are losing their homes and going without meals. 

74

Can’t have that legalized same sex marriage. If you make that legal then pretty soon you have THIS.

 

Its the old slippery slope.

75 Wow.  If there was ever an issue that demonstrated the MSM isn't giving Americans an accurate read on Americans, this is it.  In fact, you would have assumed from the MSM that, about 20% or less of the electorate is opposed to gay marriage.  Since it's at least 51%, even in Main, compensate for Blue Shift, generally.

76

Meghan really needs to get to work purging the party of these bigots

The only thing I'm purging right now is my breakfast.

77 Guess Jeff Greenfield reads this blog.  I was a little shocked to see the $1900.00 figure, per person, and I'm not a numbers person so just reported it as said...guess when he saw it in writing here he felt compelled to call back Imus and have him lower it to $190.00 per person.  very funny, everyone is a little off today.

78 Shepard Smith and Gabriel Malor hardest hit.

79

I support marriage for gays.  Why not? We hetrosexuals are getiing married on game shows.  We devalued marriage, not gays.  BTW, why not let them see how great marriage is?  The lawyers will benefit from all the addtional divorces.

I am watching Morning Joe this am...very funny. I am sure there will be tons of clips on Breitbart later.

I am thrilled that NJ went for Chrisite...it took most of the air out of the DNC...all they want to talk about since 10 last night is NY 23...

The blue dogs are walking away from Obama right now...I think I just heard the door slam behind them.

Enjoy morons..this hasn't happened  in a whiile but we are winners today.

 

80 Very pleased how yesterday's elections turned out. Unfortunately I'm going to have to have a black out regarding Facebook because all my "gay marriage is awesome!" friends (and I have a lot, one of the perils of being friends with a ton of musicians and teachers) are all on the "if you don't agree with gay marriage you're an evil homophobe" train. I love being told I'm evil simply because of the way I think. It's faboo!

I don't think the gay marriage folks really and seriously understand just what they're asking of society. They're asking -- DEMANDING, really -- for people to put aside beliefs and feelings and a way of life that has been in place since before recorded history. That sh*t takes a long time to do, and when the voting populace says "Sorry bubba, nothin' doin'," suddenly it's the end of the world. It's only a matter of time -- as the older generation dies off and stop voting, and the younger generations -- already indoctrinated by the public schools -- begin to vote, the tide will turn in their favor.

In the meantime, those of us who long for a more conservative and traditional society are branded as the deviants and the "bad" ones -- from a group that thinks it's perfectly "OK" to rollerblade down the street wearing nothing more than a neon pink thong and a feather boa. Because, you know, THEY'RE JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

81 The Ace Of  Sleeping In ?

82
1) Is Christie pro-life?

2) Is Christie against same-sex marriage?

83

The truth is gay people are just like you. Americans. Working. Painting their house. Washing their car. Falling in love. Shopping at the food stores with coupons.

Gays are just like everyone else.

84

@82

He is pro-life but equivocates on the gays.

...but he puts crooks away...only time will tell now.

the problems is all the Libs in trenton will fight him all the way he neads to clean house "Turn trenton upside down"

85 It's mean spirited that they have to have the label.  Marriage is being assaulted enough in this day and age why do the gays have to contribute to the assault.  Just take the civil unions while you can get them because if the tide is turning in this country and it keeps getting put to a referendum and you keep losing then maybe you won't even end up with civil unions and you will find yourselves saying "why didn't we quit while we were ahead?"

86 The currency's already been devalued, let's spend a few trillion more.
Marriage has already been devalued, let's devalue it further.

87

He is pro-life but equivocates on the gays.

Really? Was he squishy on the issue, or was he adamantly pro-homo-marriage?

88

@83

I don't think anybody was making the argument that gays aren't people, just that gay marriage is an absurdity.  The difference between gay marriage and a real marriage is the difference between dressing up like a police officer or doctor and being one.  Which is to say massive and fundamental.

 

89
So, dan, how you feelin, today?

Shocked? Surprised? Stunned? Sleepy?

All of the above?

90 American health care sucks, let's let the government take it over.
The situation in Afghanistan is bad, let the Taliban have it back.
When life gives you lemons, give up.
When the going gets tough, quit.

91 A black day in the history of faggotry. Heh.

92

87

Yeah..he's a bit of a squish, one of the reasons why i was a lonegan guy during the primaries and the fact that Lonegan enforced an english only policy in my parents home town of Bogota, nj. where he was mayor.

 

 

93 Hey lay off Glenn.  He is nudging the GOP.
Thank goodness.

Specter, Snowe and now Hagel becoming a handmaiden to Obama...Enough

An abortion, gay marriage, cap and trade, card check, pro health care republican is not a candidate that deserves one million dollars of the GOP money....How quickly you all forget
she "Spectered" immediately....how did you like that Glenn bashers?

Glenn made these victories happen, that and the tea parties and the 9-12 project....

Typical quivering rinos just can't man up, and instead go after Glenn the guy that is dismantling this administration every day.
Van Jones anyone?

94
It really disappoints me how intelligent conservatives can't recognize the connection between every single social-wedge-issue (created and instigated by the Left, btw) and the radical Left wing.

The Left has created these social 'issues' for two reasons:
a) to undermine Western values, e.g., family, capitalism, Christianity.
b) to split the Republican party.

Wake the fuck up. Social issues matter. At the very least, you're undermining your fellow conservatives by supporting the other side in these issues.

95 Also.....how about all those "absentee ballots"
The official calling card of ACORN.

Glenn is a HERO.

96 Don't bring me out for this shit, I am hung over.  Plan on eating a pizza with the new gov in NJ later, meatlovers.

97

Half of our young people don't even bother to get married before they have children.  The institution of marriage needs to be a commitment between two people who love each other, and want to commit them self to a long term contract.

How is a long term contract between two people a bad thing for society?  How does it ruin marriage?

Isn't it better for children to grow up with an in tact two parent family?

98

89

Groggy, but optimistic...w/ a bit of apprehension, thinking to myself "don't mess this up big guy"

Did you notice the second group Corzine thanked last night was big labor?

 

99 Of course, Tom Hanks has issued a Hollywood fatwa against Maine's Mormons and Catholics BUT not Buddhists, Muslims or Rev Wright's United Marxists in Aborting Christ.

100 Now the dc voters have to get this on the ballot. The libtards don't want the brothers voting

101
ford, you really think it's good for kids to grow up with 2 dads or 2 moms?

This line of thinking is insane. The communists and muslims are laughing their asses off at us. All they need to is sit back and watch our Western civilization implode.

102

I am fiscally conservative. I serve on 2 budget committees in my region. I had to win 2 elections.  I am pro choice, and pro gay marriage. Don't worry ,I don't consider myself a Republican, but I donated to the Pubs and worked the phones for them the past 2 cycles.

Just because I don't endorse all the components of the Pubs, doesn't mean I  am willing to let the lefties win. I am the squishy independent. 

 

103

This is a video and article over at CA Conservative.

 

It highlights a case where a NJ voter showed up to vote and was told that an absentee ballot had already been requested and used in his name.

 

This is the kind of shit we have to stop in this country or it WILL ultimately lead to civil war and blood in the streets. People already feel like that the pols really don’t care about how the feel on issues and, in a lot of cases, how their votes means little.

 

That is why you see so much anger being displayed at the Town Hall meetings. The people feel marginalized.  When the average citizen, or even a significant minority of the citizens, feel like the elections are fraudulent and rigged (even more than they are now) they will not just be “mad as hell” any more.

Better listen up pols. You better do something about this now before a lot of you are hanging upside down from lampposts.

104
okay, ford, so it sounds like you're the type who is okay with a Republican who is anti-abortion and against same-sex marriage? Is that right?

105

@97

Because it is absurd.  The fact of the matter is that humans are not designed for that type of family.  If they were, that type of family could procreate.  It cannot.  Heterosexual couples that cannot procreate can provide the same environment for an orphan as a couple which can, to the point where the orphan may not even know they are not his biological parents.  A homosexual couple cannot, since it does not give insight to both male and females to the child, and more importantly, can't procreate at all.

There are many crooked cops, but that doesn't mean just anybody should be able to say they are a police officer.  Similarly, bad marriages are not an argument for gay marriages.

106 I support marriage for gays.  Why not? We hetrosexuals are getiing married on game shows.  We devalued marriage, not gays.  BTW, why not let them see how great marriage is?  The lawyers will benefit from all the addtional divorces.



Darling,  there is a obvious fallacy to your argument; not fallacio but fallacy. 

Former Gov McGreevy is an excellent example of the fact that if one is homosexual one is not banned from marriage.


Considering the fact that former Gov McGreevy married twice, extracted children then ran off with his male lover indicates in fact that homosexuals have debased marriage.

Lastly; 'same-sex union between opposite-sex' is an insane premise;  how can anyone argue for that which is nonsense. 

That's called crazy.

107 So get a general power of attorney for your partner, ford.

The legal mechanisms already exist to provide the benefits queers SAY they want.

But that's not what they really want and you know it. They want to force us to declare that their aberrant sexual behavior is both normal, acceptable and desirable.
Here's a newsflash: nobody cared, but you MADE it our business. They had our tolerance but it wasn't enough.

Fuck 'em. Reap the ass-banging, carpet-munching whirlwind that you've sown, militant gays.

108 OK maroons, gotta hit the road and actually do some work today, be back this afternoon.

109

Yes, I voted for Palin, and McCain. I was happy he picked Palin. I consider myself a feminist of sorts.  I am thrilled that we are not going to get Obama bills passed now..it's great that we get our spending in order.

I think 2 parents are better than one.  I think 2 dads or 2 moms is better than a single parent household. Most gays who are getting married have children, they have a reason to make this commitment.

I think 2 is better than one, man or woman...I am also a believer in God.

110 CT news local headlines:

- Two Republicans win Cheshire BOE
- Republicans win Cheshire council 7-2
- Three Republicans win Southington BOF
- Wallingford charter revision overwhemingly voted down
- Dickinson [R] officially wins 14th straight term
- Republicans win Wallingford BOE
- Three Democrats take Meriden BOE seats
- Brunet gives Meriden a Republican on Council
- Republicans win Southington PZC
- Republicans sweep Southington BOE
- Republicans take control of Southington council

. . .

- Hartford mayor [D] in court for corruption case

111 Yin-Yin union between Yin and Yang.



Now how does this work?

112 [Beck] needs to be reigned in somewhat. I fully support his going after left-wing Democrats in the Obama administration, and corrupt left-wing organizations, and leftists in the media.

However, he should really spend less time going after Republicans for being ideologically "impure."

Who has he gone after for being "ideologically impure", for what reason and when has he ever said who ought or ought not be a Republican? (With the exception of Dede, who really ought not be a Republican)

His ideological purity litmus test seems to be that you can't be a crook or a communist.

113 My nephew got married in San Fran City Hall to a libtard Israeli atheist. As far as I'm concerned he has a "civil union" however she is female (sorta--the right parts). I have no problem with gays having weddings or legal civil unions and they can do anything they want except call it Marriage. I'm opposed to their becoming parents although I do think that there are gay men and women in traditional marriages who wanted children.

114

I think there is a lot of aberrant sexual behavior among heterosexuals, as well as homosexuals.  I think marriage is not about sexual behavior, it is about spiritual and legal connection.

Since when am I able to spy on what people do in their sex life to determine if they qualify to get married?

115

My personal take on these ‘social issues” is that we should avoid the “religious” slant and approach it from a Constitutional slant.

 

The abortion issue was brought about by the intrusion of the courts in a State matter. They did so using nothing more than pure opinion as there is NOTHING in the Constitution that supports their ruling. They had to stretch out to penumbras and emanations to get there.  

 

On the issue of gay marriage the Constitution is silent. Now I know, gays will throw out the equal justice clause but that is a red hearing. Equal justice means they are treated the same was in court as anyone else. They are. Gays can get married all they want. They just have to get married IAW with State law, just like everyone else.

 

If gays were being singled out for “punishment” laws I would be the first to champion actions to stifle and remove those laws. What I am against is creating yet another class of “privilege” based on something dreamed up by the liberals who champion the phony diversity meme.  In any case, these kinds of things never result in an increase in net freedom and liberty among the people. What they wind up doing is creating another class of lawsuits for full employment by the lawyers.

 

If the people in ME wish to change their laws to allow two men or two women to get married, then let them do it at the polls.   It appears that they went to the polls last night and said they didn’t want this. Well then so be it.  But I am sure it will be back in the courts soon.

116

It's hard to describe my stance on gay marriage -- I don't think marriage in the traditional sense should be passed.  It infringes upon freedom of religion; it could devalue the term "marriage" even further than it has been now (we already have enough straight people who stupidly marry to make a "statement" -- marriage is not about "making a statement" and never ends well when that is its soul purpose), and then we get into the can of worms concerning children, lifestyle choices, etc. -- it's a potential mess of astronomical proportions and I fear would create a huge amount of bureacratic red tape and legal boondoogle down the road.  No thank you.

On the flip side -- if two same sex people want to live together in a mutually consensual union, I don't feel I have a right to say "no you can't".  Perhaps granting civil unions is the best compromise, although granted that is a slippery slope, as has been well illustrated by events.

Most of the sane homosexual people I know really don't care much either way concerning gay marriage (many find it a ridiculous sideshow and are more concerned about things like their jobs, their 401k, and being safe -- aka. law enforcement and terrorist attacks -- the hate crime thing also doesn't really strike home with them that much; they are much more concerned about getting robbed by meth heads than getting accosted by skin heads).  They don't really see the existence or abscence of a marriage license as imposing upon their lives as much as losing their job or not making enough to pay for their car.  It's only the "activists" that seem to scream and howl about this stuff, and to be honest a lot of gays and lesbians I know are pretty sick of them.

It's rather the same way I feel about "marriage" between two straight people: if you live with someone and start a home together, then no piece of paper really makes much difference in a boots on the ground sort of way as to whether you are married or not. You are, end of story. I think Texas, if it still has this, calls it a common law marriage?

117 Syn...there are just as many politicians that have children with one wife, and run off with #2 and #3.  The scum is scum, whether they are gay or straight.

118

Second question, how did Cali-10 shake out? Did the Republican at least make a decent showing?

Given how incredibly gerrymandered that district is, YES.

119

@109

I believe what you are speaking about is gay adoption as opposed to gay marriage, since a gay marriage can't produce offspring.  The fact that this is the case, I think, proves something.

 

120

I agree with the view of Jane,and Vic.  It is only the activists that are screaming on both sides...Gays are going to stay together or not.Common law, whatever.  It is my belief that if they want to commit, they should be able to.

I do support it being on the ballot, in any state , but it sours people like me if Pubs are  reading our of their religious handbooks to tell people what they cannot do.

Liberty.

121 thought on gay marriage: how about we get government / law out of the business of discriminating based on marital status altogether? Is that too hard?

122 Zuggs, many of the gays who adopt, or have a family donor, do have children in their care. They can normalize their life for their children, by getting married.

123

This is all Meghan McCain and her ilk talk about.  Well, that and the hateful, bigoted, old, mean Republicans that need to go away. 

This issue has been put on the ballot in 31 states, and has lost in all 31 states.  Meghan really needs to get to work purging the party of these bigots and remaking it to her image.  There's lots of work to be done!

Meghan needs someone like Rosie O'Donnell to do her with a strap-on and get it over with. Just come out already.

124

I do support it being on the ballot, in any state , but it sours people like me if Pubs are  reading our of their religious handbooks to tell people what they cannot do.

Gee, I didn't know the dictionary constituted a religious handbook, did you?

What is "gay (ghey) marriage"? It's a desecration--of language. You can call a cat a dog because it too has four legs and a tail, but it is still a cat.

 

125

thought on gay marriage: how about we get government / law out of the business of discriminating based on marital status altogether? Is that too hard?

 

I agree 100%.   From what I have seen government getting into marriage has done nothing but discriminate against men.  We talked about that on a different thread a few weeks ago. If you are a man going into family court you are guilty of a felony as soon as you walk in – being a man in family court.

126

Woof!  Now I want Kibbles & Bits as opposed to that crappy IAMs stuff.

127 Meghan needs someone like Rosie O'Donnell Jennifer Connelly to do her with a strap-on and get it over with. Just come out already.

Pay per view material right there.

128

From the Corner: 

“A story from my old stomping grounds of Chicago. Years ago, during the original Mayor Daley’s tenure, I heard of a precinct captain who, after the polls closed, realized that no one had voted for the Republican candidate for mayor. He came to the conclusion that no one would believe it. So, to avoid charges of voter fraud, he went in and pulled the lever for the Republican a dozen or so times.”

 Don’t know if it’s true, but it sort of rings true.

 

At my Northern Va polling place yesterday--went 65% Deeds BTW---I was aggressively greeted by Kerry Donnelly the previous mayor and current city council member and libtard who assumed that I wanted his Dim sample ballot. My husband admonishes me every morning to "be good". So as he approached me I said, "Ewww, no democrats Kerry" my initial thought was to say, "I know who you are and no thanks you imperious prick." I reported back that I was indeed good but less satisfied than I otherwise would have been. Oh well.

129 Marriage between Man & Women

130

They can normalize their life for their children, by getting married.

Sorry but that won't "normalize" their life. There is nothing normal about a gay couple with children.

131

Meghan needs someone like Rosie O'Donnell Jennifer Connelly to do her with a strap-on and get it over with. Just come out already.

Pay per view material right there.

I stand corrected. I should have suggested Portia DeRossi or someone reasonably attractive to to the strapping on. Is Jennifer Connelly lesbian? What a waste....

132 Marriage exists as an institution to curb the male instinct to exploit the female. Males have an advantage over females in that the more of the opposite sex they mate with, the greater the likelihood their genes will be passed on. For an individual male, promiscuity is a good strategy, but it puts the other males at a disadvantage. So, marriage is meant to be a social countervailing force against the male's nature to keep society stable. Nature says "screw any woman you can get your hands on" and society says, "not so fast buddy." Society does this through an institution that convinces a male heterosexual the opposite of the biological truth -- namely that he is more of a man for staying faithful to a single woman as opposed to banging every woman in sight. Gay marriage short-circuits this message. Good luck convincing macho young males who want to spread their seed that they're more manly by being just like that nice barren gay couple across the street. Gay marriage completely deconstructs marriage's message to the young heterosexual male. It's not rational, but that's the way it is.

Also, gay activists will start to sue churches for civil rights violations. That's why they want the word "marriage." It's important for the lawsuits they have planned.

133

@122

Ford, I fail to see how that normalizes anything.  How is that going to change anything? 

134
ford, the reason I asked was to prove another point: it does not hurt Republicans at the polls to be either anti-abortion or against gay marriage. And being pro-abortion or for gay marriage certainly does not help the Republican, if anything it hurts the Republican candidate.

135 Well, the Ca-10 race ended up at 10.3% in for the Dem.  If they haven't counted absentees yet I think it easily goes below 10%. Very nice job considering.

136 Is Jennifer Connelly lesbian...

No (that I know of), just an allusion to the infamous strap-on scene in Requiem for a Dream.

137 So ford, if I am heterosexual, but a chickenfucker, I should be able to marry a chicken? It makes as much biological and legal sense as me marrying another man.

138

What 107 said.  Maybe a tad more circumspect.

Tell me why homos don't already have the exact same rights that heteros do.  And please, don't give me that love crap.  Love is neither a requirement nor a qualifier in any state in the union.  The qualifiers mainly have to do with age and mental status.

Explain to me, please, how gay marriage is equal rights and not special rights.

139 I really think the ultimate solution to all this is for the government to refer to gay AND straight unions as "civil unions".  When I enter into traditional matrimony, having either the term "marriage" or "civil union" on record at the courthouse is something I really couldn't give a damn about.  The government doesn't validate my marriage in any real sense as far as I'm concerned.  It seems the only practical purpose for government to be involved in people's marriages at all is if the couple gets divorced.....at which the proper term for their union should be "toast".

140

Well, the Ca-10 race ended up at 10.3% in for the Dem.  If they haven't counted absentees yet I think it easily goes below 10%. Very nice job considering.

It totally is! Look at CA-10 on a map. This blob of a district takes parts out of FOUR counties, and stretches a pseudopod out towards Berkeley and the Richmond ghetto, in order to get enough Commiecrat voters and thus nullify the patriot  voters of Travis Air Force Base and rural Solano and Delta farming regions.

 

141

if NY 23 says "easy on the social issues"

then this says "don't forget about social issues"

 

it 's gonna be a tough balancing act, but we have to get it right.

 

142 Curmudgeon, You want to see a gerrymandered district.  Look no further than here in Maryland.  http://tinyurl.com/yhjjt7o

This damn thing isn't even contiguous, just slapped together to make sure that a Republican can never win here again.(Ehrlich used to represent this district)

As for gay marriage, call it a union and give them inheritance rights, etc and make the fuckers fight it out in court when it goes bad to try to dissolve the union. Just don't call it "marriage."

143

0-31.  Wow, that makes my  of 0-16 season look good.

144 Homosexuality has never been more mainstream than it is right now.The stigma attached to it in the past is mostly gone and they are featured on television prominently.I think the whole marriage thing is a bridge too far.Accept all the strides you have made and settle for civil unions.

145 how about we get government / law out of the business of discriminating based on marital status altogether? Is that too hard?

Yeah.  The social-cons crave society's approval of their marriages the same way the gays crave society's approval of their relationships.  Neither group is capable of just living how they want without the gov't stamp of approval.

146 His ideological purity litmus test seems to be that you can't be a crook or a communist.

Not a bad filter.  It eliminates 95% of all politicians on both sides.

147 Of course the government should control marriage, I mean who else are you gonna leave it up to ? The Church ?

148 E of Jeff fucks chickens!

_{Oh wait.. Flame war is laterz}

149

<i> So ford, if I am heterosexual, but a chickenfucker</i>

We prefer to term chicken lover.

150 >148 E of Jeff fucks  loves chickens!

sorry.

151 Ultimately, gay marriage devalues the act of having children, and devalues the important the fact that men and women are different, and each bring something essential to the raising of kids.

So, while I do have mixed feelings about saying no, I need to say no to "gay marriage."

152 I could hold my nose and accept gay marriage if voted by the public.
What i wont accept is the public school teaching moral equivalency and socially engineering my kids. No Heather has two mommies.

153 Damn those Mainiacs, supporting Obama's position on gay marriage like that!

154 I agree with Roger Simon that fiscal conservatism wins, social conservatism doesn't.

Hoffman went a little too much to the social. And while the Maine gay marriage vote would seem on the surface to be a social-con win, it's really just the electorate rejecting approval of homosexuality over simple tolerance. They were telling the politicians to stay out of it with their approval laws.

155 Has anyone blamed the Mormons yet?  'Cause you know when I was living in New England I couldn't turn around without bumping into a Mormon, especially in Maine.  "They" love lobster. 

156

The social-cons crave society's approval of their marriages the same way the gays crave society's approval of their relationships. 

 

The social cons are society. They don't need to "crave" their own approval.

 

157 And while the Maine gay marriage vote would seem on the surface to be a social-con win, it's really just the electorate rejecting approval of homosexuality over simple tolerance.

Umm, most of the social cons I know are tolerant of homosexuals. 

158 Hoffman went a little too much to the social. And while the Maine gay marriage vote would seem on the surface to be a social-con win, it's really just the electorate rejecting approval of homosexuality over simple tolerance. They were telling the politicians to stay out of it with their approval laws.

Posted by: schizuki at November 04, 2009 11:15 AM (SuGDg)

Really? In all these coverage and news stories on that race where were social con issues discussed? I don't remember it.

As for the rest are you somehow suggesting the Social Con postion is homosexuality should not be tolerated by the State? Because that's a load of BS.

159

I agree with Roger Simon that fiscal conservatism wins, social conservatism doesn't.

Who would have a guessed that a die-hard social liberal like Simon would have said such a a thing?

 

Hoffman went a little too much to the social.

His social con positions were identical to those of McHugh, you fatuous fool.

There's some serious stupidity popping up in the threads this morning.

160

Hold on.  The issue of gay marriage really isn't about marriage or teh gheys.  It's about culture.  The libs want a permissive "anything goes" culture and we don't.  That's what gay marriage represents.  Remember a while ago the controversy about certain states adopting "covenant marriages"?  Of course the libs went nuts - they trotted out the canards about wives being forced to stay in abusive marriages (which is a lie), but what they really wanted is to maintain the status quo of permissivity in the context of marriage.  When conservatives object to the redefinition of marriage, libs object.  When conservatives take concrete steps to shore up the institution of marriage, libs object.  The real goal of the libs is to redefine marriage to be little more than a contract between two (or more!) consenting adults.  That's it.

 

161 miller said...  [ann althouse blog] "Obama didn't campaign for Owens, and Owens won.

Obama campaigned for Deeds and Corzine -- and they lost.

I think this is much clearer."

162 Ace, I know you're very busy. But I was wondering if you might be able to find a few minutes to do some gloating.

See if you can fit it in, mmkay?

163

160 -- Actually, I agree with this view of the situation.

If you grant "gay marriage", then pretty soon you will have the good folks at nambla pitching a fit about the right for very Jan. - June relationships to be socially accepted and given some sort of documentary approval.

I don't really care about two consenting adult homosexuals wanting a union -- that is their personal life and thus their business -- whether this is morally wrong I believe is best settled between them and their higher power; however, I can see where this could lead to, and it is all manner of a problem.

164 I support marriage for gays.  Why not? We hetrosexuals are getiing married on game shows.  We devalued marriage, not gays.  BTW, why not let them see how great marriage is?  The lawyers will benefit from all the addtional divorces.

I'm sick of this meme.  It wasn't pro-marriage people who devalued marriage.   When you take away responsibility and negative consequences, you increase foolish behavior.  Conservatives understand this.  The pro-marriage crowd argued against no-fault divorce, single motherhood, abortion, and they were shouted down.  It won't affect marriage.  It won't hurt women and children. Abortion will never be used as birth control.  It will lower child abuse rates (WTF).    LIES!  Phony study after phony study to support the lie of the week.  They were wrong!  Do the libtards acknowledge that they were wrong and say sorry to the thousands of lives they have destroyed?  No, they just move on to the next issue and start repeating the lies.  The same fools that gave us no-fault divorce are the same idiots pushing gay marriage. 

What galls me is that they dare use the argument that heterosexuals, Christians, conservatives "devalued marriage."   Libtard policies "devalued marriage" through no-fault divorce, removing fathers from the home, and Feminazis who hate all things female, especially motherhood.  If you want to see the results of Dem policies, take a look at the black community (the Pretty-Pets of the Democratic party).  Fifty years of Dem polices have done more to destroy black families than the Klan.  The Dems have succeeded beyond the Klan's wildest dreams.   With friends like that, who needs enemies...

165 Re gay marriage: it all comes down to whether homosexuality is a natural variation (like being an albino), or whether it's a psychological disorder.

If the former, then legalize gay marriage. If the latter, we're lying to ourselves if we say it's the same as a normal, heterosexual union. Enshrining a disease as a healthy state.

Mother Nature would seem to vote No, based on the fact that the lock and key go together and the key and key do not, without using parts that, frankly, weren't built for that job (and look at the high risk of disease transmission via anal sex to see what I mean). The American Psychiatric Association always said that homosexuality was a dysfunctional psychological disorder, until they were politically pressured to say, like Emily Latella, "Oh. Never mind!"

The only way to resolve the controversy (scientifically, at least) would be to study homosexuality as dispassionately and objectively as possible. But that's forbidden now, so we're left with heated arguments based largely on opinions, on both sides.

I have several gay friends; they used to be scornful of the "breeders'" desire to marry and have children. Now they want to imitate us? I don't think it's so much about equal rights for a lot of gays, as about forcing normal people to bow the neck to them. A kind of revenge, if you will. And you only have to watch their parades to see the open anger and acting-out that I'm talking about.

166

If gays get this consenting adults thing through, how do you argue against polygamy?

167 And from the female POV: legalizing homosexual marriage DOES open the door to polygamy, and all the abuses of women and children that that entails. Because the polygamists will say, "It's just our CULTURE! We're consenting adults! what right do you have to Dictate how we may marry?"

The fact that women in polygamous cultures are treated like breeding stock and valued at a tiny fraction of the man's worth will be completely buried by the so-called progressives.

Don't believe me? they're already pushing it: See the cable TV series "Big Love" [sic], celebrating a polygamous marriage. (I think this abomination is on HBO.)

Susan B. Anthony must be spinning in her grave.

168

It's been the combined effort of heterosexuals and homosexuals who have devalued the institution of marriage -- can't say it was one or the other to fault here (at least I don't think sexual preference was the factor as much as ideology). 

And yes, one only need look at what has happened to some families (especially nonwhite ones, as they seem to almost have been purposely targeted) to see how social platforms which devalued the family unit can wreak havoc on every other area of a person's life...and also how it has taken away their freedom.

 

 

169 i'am both a social conservative and fiscal conservative but i have no problem with gay marriage being legalized i also believe abortion should be left to the states honestly i ain't the social con you thought i knew

170 And while the Maine gay marriage vote would seem on the surface to be a social-con win, it's really just the electorate rejecting approval of homosexuality over simple tolerance.

Umm, most of the social cons I know are tolerant of homosexuals. 

--------------------------------------

Yeah, that was my point.

171 As for the rest are you somehow suggesting the Social Con postion is homosexuality should not be tolerated by the State? Because that's a load of BS.

------------------------------

I'm going to need a roadmap to figure out how you arrived at that conclusion from what I wrote.

172

His social con positions were identical to those of McHugh, you fatuous fool

------------------

I'm not gay, flenser, but I'll make exception enough to cordially invite you to suck my dick.

173

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