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Shock: eVerify, Border Fence Provisions Mysteriously Vanish from Homeland Security Bill in Conference

But they're really determined to seal the borders and make sure that American jobs are taken by American workers.

What's especially obnoxious about this is that many Senators -- Democrats, mostly -- voted for these provisions earlier, but are of course happy to see them disappear from the actual vote. They trust the voters won't notice.

Hey, they voted for it, right? They had no intention of ever seeing it through to actual action, but they did get that one vote up on the record so they can claim they favor this stuff, right?

That's all that matters.

"We're learning there's almost nothing politicians won't do to get out of promises they make in the daylight," said Sen. Jim DeMint, R-S.C., complaining that conferees dropped a provision that would have required the Homeland Security Department to build 700 miles of double-layered reinforced fencing along the southern border.

DeMint reminded senators that a majority of the Senate voted to include the provision in the spending bill.

One of the dropped provisions to draw protests would have permanently reauthorized the E-Verify electronic system employers can use to verify the legal status of their workers. Another would have required employers to take action if the Social Security number provided by a worker did not match records with the Social Security Administration.

"People can have little confidence based on our votes here on the Senate floor," said Sen. David Vitter, R-La. "The conference committee work can be diametrically opposed to it on issue after issue."

Thanks to Gabriel Malor.


Posted by: Ace at 01:11 PM



Comments

1 The US Senate - you won't find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy than that.

Posted by: Kratos (on the back of Gaia, scaling Mt Olympus) at October 21, 2009 01:16 PM (9hSKh)

2 Most ethical and transparent Congress evah!  (They're so transparent, you can see right through them and see that they are a bunch of big fat liars!)

Posted by: runningrn at October 21, 2009 01:17 PM (4R2pO)

3 What exactly, is the point of passing bills that go to conference, if they are totally changed coming out of it?

Posted by: lorien1973 at October 21, 2009 01:17 PM (IhQuA)

4 Mexicans!!!

Right on. We haven't had a good let's bash us some illegals thread for awhile.

Posted by: Tiny Tim at October 21, 2009 01:17 PM (Ogqm2)

5 This is nothing. Wait until we see the Hellcare bill when it comes out of the Star Chamber of Reconciliation.

It might look like the Alien and Sedition Act.

Posted by: George Orwell at October 21, 2009 01:18 PM (AZGON)

6 Democrats apparently aren't bothered with "don't ask, don't tell" when it comes to protecting our country or enforcing our laws.

Posted by: Dr. Spank at October 21, 2009 01:19 PM (muUqs)

7 Su país es mi país, chico blanco.

Posted by: Undocumented Immigrant at October 21, 2009 01:22 PM (5aa4z)

8 Mexicans!!!

Right on. We haven't had a good let's bash us some illegals thread for awhile.

Posted by: Tiny Tim at October 21, 2009 01:17 PM (Ogqm2)

Assholes!!

Right on. We've had some of those threads, but they never get old.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 21, 2009 01:23 PM (5aa4z)

9 I hated those threads that were in Spanish.

Posted by: Jean at October 21, 2009 01:26 PM (Scxfk)

10 We did however, add a provision to install water fountains at 5 mile intervals along the border, next to the fountains are boxes full of voter registration cards with party affiliation marked "D".

Posted by: Nancy Pelosi at October 21, 2009 01:27 PM (wAQA5)

11

If the Dems don’t lose every open seat in 2010 it will have to be because the Republican Party bosses have their heads still planted up their ass.

Posted by: Vic at October 21, 2009 01:27 PM (CDUiN)

12 Just remember Reid has promised no illegals will get free stuff from the taxpayer from the Hellcare bill. Just like the way they don't get free stuff now.

Posted by: George Orwell at October 21, 2009 01:27 PM (AZGON)

13 Now with the economy in the shithouse, maybe we could build us a big fence, deport the Mexicans, and get some of you unemployed knuckleheads out to the farm to pick beans for 7$/hour.


Posted by: Tiny Tim at October 21, 2009 01:27 PM (Ogqm2)

14 Did you know that I'm in favor of open borders too?  That's what makes me a good conservative.

Posted by: Dede Scozzoflava at October 21, 2009 01:29 PM (PhN4p)

15 I'll take one of the new Agriculture Czar department jobs, where you oversee the shape and color of beans for compliance with federal regulations, from a desk in a highrise, at $50/hour.

Posted by: George Orwell at October 21, 2009 01:29 PM (AZGON)

16

Tiny Tim

Dude when I  gave you that name I didn't mean it as a compliment.

Posted by: Tiny Tims girlfriend at October 21, 2009 01:30 PM (jvrmc)

17

Did you know that I'm in favor of open borders too?  That's what makes me a good conservative.

Sounds OK to us! We need cheaper gardeners and maids!

Posted by: Wall Street Journal Greedheads at October 21, 2009 01:31 PM (ujg0T)

18 Dude, even mine's bigger.

Posted by: Tiny Tim's Pet Hamster at October 21, 2009 01:31 PM (PhN4p)

19 Senor Tim, fue terrible en el ukelele, como un pene
  en un pollo

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at October 21, 2009 01:31 PM (5aa4z)

20 If the Dems don’t lose every open seat in 2010 it will have to be because the Republican Party bosses have their heads still planted up their ass.

Hey now, watch it, Mister. We prefer to think of ourselves as having a posture fit for examining the, ah, bowels of government.

Posted by: George Orwell at October 21, 2009 01:32 PM (AZGON)

21

My goodness, Tiny Tim (*cough erg *cough), you really are quite the racist, aren't you? 

Is this how all of you progressive types think?

Posted by: wiserbud at October 21, 2009 01:33 PM (wWwJR)

22

Now with the economy in the shithouse, maybe we could build us a big fence, deport the Mexicans, and get some of you unemployed knuckleheads out to the farm to pick beans for 7$/hour.

As long as we are getting welfare from you, why should we?

Posted by: Ghetto Democrats at October 21, 2009 01:33 PM (ujg0T)

23

I'll take one of the new Agriculture Czar department jobs, where you oversee the shape and color of beans for compliance with federal regulations, from a desk in a highrise, at $50/hour.

I take that job for $10 per hora, si?

Posted by: Manuel Labor at October 21, 2009 01:33 PM (wAQA5)

24 Más de que el pollo! Dulce, dulce gallina!

Posted by: Timita at October 21, 2009 01:35 PM (5aa4z)

25 Makes sense.  Don't want to impede all those new Democratic voters.

Posted by: GarandFan at October 21, 2009 01:36 PM (ZQBnQ)

26 Hey, Manuel Labor, we can pay you more than that. C'mon over and bring your coyote truck too.

Posted by: ACORN at October 21, 2009 01:38 PM (AZGON)

27 ¿Se puede meter un dedo por ahí, también, Timita? Gracias.

Posted by: El Pollo at October 21, 2009 01:38 PM (5aa4z)

28 Yeah, you racist Republicans!  Only we good little progressives stand up for the Mexicans!  They are entitled to free health care, free education, free food, free housing, and free paid 8-week vacations!  And a free Chia-pet!  And some free snuggies!  And a free Shamwow!  Free!  Free!  FREE FREE FREE FREE FREE

Posted by: Poquito Tim at October 21, 2009 01:39 PM (PhN4p)

29 "Appearing lucid and relaxed, Byrd defended the decision to remove language from the bill requiring 700 miles of double-layered fencing, calling it "too proscriptive and too costly."

too proscriptive???  The definition of proscribe: to condemn or forbid as harmful or unlawful.    Does that mean it might, you know, work?  Somehow, I don't think lucidity is what sheets had in mind. 

Posted by: pep at October 21, 2009 01:39 PM (5GcKk)

30

Makes sense.  Don't want to impede all those new Democratic voters.

And yet, the Stupid Party is still run by fools who actually think they can win a (His)pandering contest.

 

Posted by: Curmudgeon at October 21, 2009 01:40 PM (ujg0T)

31 Byrd defended the decision to remove language from the bill requiring 700 miles of double-layered fencing

"Byrd seemed unusually enthusiastic about a proposal to replace the planned fence with 700 burning crosses, but the committee moved to place it in a different bill on healthcare."

Posted by: George Orwell at October 21, 2009 01:41 PM (AZGON)

32 13 Now with the economy in the shithouse, maybe we could build us a big fence, deport the Mexicans, and get some of you unemployed knuckleheads out to the farm to pick beans for 7$/hour.


Posted by: Tiny Tim at October 21, 2009 01:27 PM (Ogqm2)

--With the economy in the shithouse, the Mexicans are deporting themselves.  After they leave, then's the time to erect a wall.

Posted by: logprof at October 21, 2009 01:43 PM (I3Udb)

33

When the bathtub is overflowing, the very first thing you do - before grabbing towels and mops to soak up the overflow - is to turn off the fucking water.

What part of that don't our illustrious lawmakers.....er plumbers, not understand.

Seal the borders and then you can deal with the illegals already here. If you don't do that, the cause is hopeless.

Posted by: LGoPs at October 21, 2009 01:44 PM (4x8W0)

34

"Appearing lucid and relaxed, Byrd defended the decision to remove language from the bill requiring 700 miles of double-layered fencing, calling it "too proscriptive and too costly."

--Kinda sad that the story has to put that qualifying phrase in there.

Kind of like "Appearing without his TelePrompter, the president briefly spoke to reporters."

Posted by: logprof at October 21, 2009 01:46 PM (I3Udb)

35

Seal the borders and then you can deal with the illegals already here. If you don't do that, the cause is hopeless.

That's the idea. This is the Treason Lobby at work, pure and simple.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at October 21, 2009 01:48 PM (ujg0T)

36

At this point, it isn't the Mexicans coming across that bother me so much as the people posing as Mexicans iykwimaittyd.

 

Perhaps we could start shipping our problem children south of the border in sort of a lend-lease type deal?  Trading 90%+ the population of Berkeley College and the city of Detroit (and similar places) for some gardeners and service workers doesn't seem like such a bad thing -- think about it.  Of course, the Mexican government might declare war on us, but it's a risk I'm willing to take.

Trade Miguel and Jose for Palin Steele and Honest Cloud -- come on, this if full of win.

Posted by: unknown jane at October 21, 2009 01:49 PM (5/yRG)

37 "Byrd appeared lucid" - you know your old when thats a compliment.

Posted by: Jean at October 21, 2009 01:50 PM (YLeFn)

38 Appearing lucid and relaxed, Byrd defended the decision

Translation: Because he actually sat up, we decided to ignore the fact that he muttered Uncle Remus rhymes while stuffing coffee cake into his pants.

Posted by: George Orwell at October 21, 2009 01:50 PM (AZGON)

39 I would gladly trade. at a 3to1 ratio, men and women willing to walk from Central America to work here for our native born welfare recipients.

Posted by: Jean at October 21, 2009 01:52 PM (7K04W)

40

What exactly, is the point of passing bills that go to conference, if they are totally changed coming out of it?

You don't appreciate theater?

Posted by: flenser at October 21, 2009 01:53 PM (6KiM2)

41

Appearing lucid and relaxed, Byrd defended the decision

Diaper Check!

Posted by: runningrn at October 21, 2009 01:53 PM (4R2pO)

42 Posted by: unknown jane at October 21, 2009 01:49 PM (5/yRG)

I posed a similar idea to my dad awhile go. For every liberal that hates America, including the president, I say we exchange their citizenship with someone who wants to come here. So we can trade, say, Janeane Gararfalo with Maria Torres or something.

Posted by: wherestherum at October 21, 2009 01:53 PM (GZnia)

43 Did you know that I'm in favor of open borders too?  That's what makes me a good conservative.

Posted by: Dede Scozzoflava

 

Sadly, Hoffman is an open borders shill as well.

Posted by: flenser at October 21, 2009 01:54 PM (6KiM2)

44 Do you think I could get ACORN to pass out vouchers for vacations to the land of sun-kissed beaches and cheap weed - they would include one-way bus tickets and forget to mention that they need a US Passport to get back in? How about if I kicked in a $10/per "finders feed" to ACORN?

Posted by: Jean at October 21, 2009 01:55 PM (mtAmx)

45 the best part is that some of the dems will act outraged and say theycan't believe this happened, but none of them will actually ask the conference committee members where the language went.


conference committee. where you get to have your cake and eat it too spit in the faces of your constituents.

Posted by: justanotherbostonian at October 21, 2009 01:55 PM (GFaLW)

46

Appearing lucid and relaxed, Byrd defended the decision to remove language from the bill requiring 700 miles of double-layered fencing, calling it "too proscriptive and too costly."

Two costly? Too COSTLY?

They don't even pretend to be serious any more.

Posted by: flenser at October 21, 2009 01:57 PM (6KiM2)

47 What exactly, is the point of passing bills that go to conference, if they are totally changed coming out of it?

You don't appreciate theater?


Okay, flenser has literally hit upon it. This is why one can maintain that the Republic is dead, a sham. The process of making sausage/laws so enormous and byzantine itself argues against a clearly defined government with clear rules. But now even the ordinary parliamentary process spits out results that bear no relation to the original intentions. Elections still matter, but it is like electing arbitrary despots. Once in office our legislators can act as free agents. It's remarkable that they bother to maintain the window dressing.

Posted by: George Orwell at October 21, 2009 01:57 PM (AZGON)

48 I would take a whole Amazonian village for Janeane Gararfalo.

Posted by: Jean at October 21, 2009 01:57 PM (tJF9l)

49

--With the economy in the shithouse,

A shithouse?  There is a shithouse?  Que bueno!

Posted by: Tijuana Tomas at October 21, 2009 01:58 PM (wAQA5)

50 I would trade Janeane Garafalo for an Amazonian cockroach.

Posted by: George Orwell at October 21, 2009 01:59 PM (AZGON)

51

Without the unending stream of uneducated and unskilled labor, those farm jobs just might pay a bit more.

Posted by: Johnathan E. at October 21, 2009 02:01 PM (dQdrY)

52 flenser at #40: Good one.

Posted by: lauraw at October 21, 2009 02:01 PM (loI8t)

53

I'm not sure why Congress does not just pass some popular bill, say the "Apple Pie And Motherhood Act of 2009", and "in conference" add government healthcare to it.

Oh, wait, they've already thought of that ...

Posted by: flenser at October 21, 2009 02:02 PM (6KiM2)

54 I would take a whole Amazonian village for Janeane Gararfalo.

why do we even need to trade? getting rid of her is a big enough win by itself

Posted by: justanotherbostonian at October 21, 2009 02:02 PM (GFaLW)

55 I would take a whole Amazonian village for Janeane Gararfalo.

why do we even need to trade? getting rid of her is a big enough win by itself


Hell, I'll throw in twenty bucks to seal the deal.

Posted by: George Orwell at October 21, 2009 02:05 PM (AZGON)

56

Sadly, Hoffman is an open borders shill as well.

Posted by: flenser at October 21, 2009 01:54 PM (6KiM2)


On Beck's show today, he said he is against amnesty, but doesn't have a ready made solution to the problem. You have probably pointed out something that needs a lot more research. His answer didn't make a lot of sense, but in this light, it does.

Posted by: Jay in Ames at October 21, 2009 02:05 PM (UEEex)

57

pep at October 21, 2009 01:39 PM (5GcKk)

He was thinking in terms more like having a four strand barb wire fence. Five would be to high for them.

Posted by: harleycowboy at October 21, 2009 02:06 PM (JKGfQ)

58

Posted by: wherestherum at October 21, 2009 01:53 PM (GZnia)

WTR!  I forgot to tell you yesterday.  Kids shoes run about 1 and a half sizes smaller than a woman's shoe (depending on if they run long or short could be up to 2 sizes).  I'm a size 4 in women's shoes, and a 2 or 2 1/2 in kids.  Your friend who wears a 5 is a 3 or 3 1/2.  I don't know if they make shoes up to 6 1/2 (since you are an   I hope that clarifies that for you.

Posted by: runningrn at October 21, 2009 02:07 PM (4R2pO)

59

Hoffman:

“There is no question that our immigration policies are flawed. The answer, though, is not to put up a wall and stop all immigration. The answer is to create an easier path for immigrants to enter the United States – and to work here – while at the same time getting tough on illegal immigrants who commit crimes.”

He's with Bush and McCain on this issue.

The question of why the entire political class is so desperate for open borders is one whch can easily lead to paranoia.

Posted by: flenser at October 21, 2009 02:07 PM (6KiM2)

60

No surprise. The Dems can't get enough of our current welfare recipients to vote them into permanent power, so they wish to import more. ACORN gets them registered to vote, and the Dems profit.

They then work on making conservatism illegal, and we all get rounded up.

Posted by: SGT Dan at October 21, 2009 02:09 PM (GgXZc)

61 I'm not sure why Congress does not just pass some popular bill, say the "Apple Pie And Motherhood Act of 2009"

Rename Cap-and-Trade to "Free Big Screen TVs for The People Act of 2009

Rename Socialized Medicine to "Champagne Wishes and Caviar Dreams Come True for America Act of 2009"

Rename Second Stimulus to "Cake for Breakfast and Candy for Dinner Act of 2009"

Posted by: George Orwell at October 21, 2009 02:11 PM (AZGON)

62 "If the Dems don’t lose every open seat in 2010 it will have to be because the Republican Party bosses have their heads still planted up their ass."

See NY District 23

Posted by: Just Another Poster at October 21, 2009 02:13 PM (NgoAe)

63

The question of why the entire political class is so desperate for open borders is one whch can easily lead to paranoia.

Ockham's razor answer:

--Commiecrat Left wants a larger proletariat, especially an ethnic one, given the post-Soviet strategy of pitting ethnics against each other rather than classes. (Evil Party)

--Greedhead Right wants cheap labor, and doesn't think Commiecrat Left strategy will happen, either because it has romantic visions of all immigrants, has insulated itself in private enclaves, or is just plain too shortsighted. (Stupid Party)

 

Posted by: Curmudgeon at October 21, 2009 02:15 PM (ujg0T)

64 Rename Cap-and-Trade to "Free Big Screen TVs for The People Act of 2009

Rename Socialized Medicine to "Champagne Wishes and Caviar Dreams Come True for America Act of 2009"

Rename Second Stimulus to "Cake for Breakfast and Candy for Dinner Act of 2009"

Posted by: George Orwell at October 21, 2009 02:11 PM (AZGON)

--You're almost there.  Any such legislation has to have a fluffy acronym to it (even if it does not ezxactly match the initials), like DREAM.

How about the Hey, Everyone Alive gets Voluminous Eats at No Charge Act (HEAVEN)?

Posted by: logprof at October 21, 2009 02:18 PM (I3Udb)

65

A Madagascar hissing ginormous roach for Garafalo (and/or big lips Bernhardt)  -- at least the roaches are useful and, if blinged out, make interesting jewelry that gives PETA  types apoplexy.  Throw in Sarah Silverstein too -- she's always annoyed me.

 

0

Posted by: unknown jane at October 21, 2009 02:24 PM (5/yRG)

66

I would trade Janeane Garafalo for a roll of wet toilet paper.

Posted by: Vic at October 21, 2009 02:28 PM (CDUiN)

67

Throw in Sarah Silverstein too -- she's always annoyed me.

I have always thought Sarah Silverslut, like may dupie-dupe "womyn" of the Left, needed to be put in a Gitmo cell with the muslim terrorist men who confess and divulge important information.

Lefty Womyn dupe is taught an important lesson, reinforced in a very intimate way, and cooperative muslim terrorist is rewarded with a special kind of conjugal visit, if you know what I mean and I think you do. Sorry to be vulgar, but it would be karmic.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at October 21, 2009 02:30 PM (ujg0T)

68

BTW, that damn fence was a red herring to begin with. A fence is like government regulations and a lock on a shed in the middle of nowhere; they all only apply to honest people. What needs to happen is more raids on businesses that hire illegals and first offense fines and second offense jail time. The illegals will dry up rapidly.

 

We also should close off ALL subsidies to illegals, including the stuippis anchor baby interpretation.

Posted by: Vic at October 21, 2009 02:32 PM (CDUiN)

69 the GFOP in the Senate is trying to reattach the EVerify amendment to the UE extension now

lets hope it goes thru, they are trying to hamstring my Sheriff Joe Arpaio and rolling out the welcome mat here on the border...they dont seem to understand that al the people com ing her are not ice happy working stiffs and families, there are some bad bad people coming over and kidnapping other immgrants and holding them for ransom and we have Rel Al Sharpton comgin here to whine about profiling are you frakking kididng me? he expects the coyotes to speak what British accented Eton diction?

Posted by: ginaswo/MiM at October 21, 2009 02:52 PM (j5d4e)

70

BTW, that damn fence was a red herring to begin with. A fence is like government regulations and a lock on a shed in the middle of nowhere; they all only apply to honest people.

Depends upon the fence. If it is a real wall, patrolled and with manned Border Patrol posts at various distances along the way, then it is a Great Wall of America. It works for the modern Israelis, it worked for the ancient Chinese.

The problem with employer sanctions is that the "underground economy" is just too large. And that is where the illegals mostly are.

A wall and personnel to man it is too costly? It would be easily cheaper than daily raids on every Home Depot or Lowe's parking lot or Merry Maids cleaning service in the nation.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at October 21, 2009 02:59 PM (aqyPA)

71

Posted by: Curmudgeon at October 21, 2009 02:59 PM (aqyPA)

 

Normally I agree with your posts, but on that last one you are wrong about every point but the Israelis.

Posted by: Vic at October 21, 2009 03:19 PM (CDUiN)

72

Did you know that Glenn Beck is an illegal alien?

He must be, as he's doing the job that American journalists refuse to do.

Or should I make that into an SAT question/answer?

Q:  Glenn Beck is to MSM as undocumented worker is to (blank).

Posted by: Space Cowboy Maurice at October 21, 2009 03:23 PM (71j4q)

73

#69 -- ah, therein lies the problem: not all are smiling, happy farm workers; some of them aren't even Central American.

For what it's worth, I agree with Vic -- the fence itself was a red herring, eVerify could help a lot though, and so would cracking down on deportation and allowing them access to social services.  The other side of that coin is cracking down on the people who knowingly and willingly employ them (I'm looking at you, vapid, ammoral, wealthy people -- erhm, Hollywood types, cough, cough, East Coast brahmins, cough, cough -- who must have an illegal maid that you can pay and treat cheaply).

Posted by: unknown jane at October 21, 2009 03:32 PM (5/yRG)

74

criminy - no wonder none of these clowns read the bills - what's the point?  it's a damn moving target

we have GOT to get rid of every one of them

Posted by: ThomNJ at October 21, 2009 03:40 PM (Z6jGw)

75 Effin' Bush had a Republican congress for SIX FREAKIN' YEARS, RIGHT AFTER 9/11, and they STILL didn't get it done.  So, I doubt it can ever get done.
How frustrating for the big % of Americans who want to control our borders!

Posted by: Austin Powers at October 21, 2009 03:43 PM (B5cM9)

76

Effin' Bush had a Republican congress for SIX FREAKIN' YEARS, RIGHT AFTER 9/11, and they STILL didn't get it done.  So, I doubt it can ever get done.
How frustrating for the big % of Americans who want to control our borders!

The Bushyrovies were all about the Hispandering, and are proabably still deluded about it today. Here's a funny blast from the past.

Posted by: Curmudgeon at October 21, 2009 03:54 PM (ujg0T)

77

Effin' Bush had a Republican congress for SIX FREAKIN' YEARS, RIGHT AFTER 9/11, and they STILL didn't get it done

 

Both Bush AND McCain were FOR amnesty, of course they didn’t get it “done”. What’s more the Dems have sneaked in provisions into other bills via stealth just like this to get around the fact that the amnesty bill was defeated.

 

That was one of the things that pissed off the conservatives in the last election, on the illegal front we had no candidate other than Duncan Hunter who never had a chance.

Posted by: Vic at October 21, 2009 04:00 PM (CDUiN)

78

on the illegal front we had no candidate other than Duncan Hunter who never had a chance

What was I, chopped liver?

Posted by: Tom Tancredo at October 21, 2009 04:01 PM (ujg0T)

79

What was I, chopped liver?

I forgot about him, yeah, he didn't have a chance either.

Posted by: Vic at October 21, 2009 04:14 PM (CDUiN)

80

Just protecting all those "undocumented" DemonCrooks.  I once made the mistake of thinking I could make a difference.  I volunteered to poll watch.  I stood watch in two Dim controlled precincts.  First, 10 days of early voting, then one day, the money day.  I observed multiple "questionable" acts from check in, to the voting booth.  What the election judge didn't strike down/ignore, a Dim lawyer would.  I never saw one Republican lawyer defending the integrity of "the vote".  I rarely got a visit, much less any help from the local Repubs.  Maybe that's because I'm an Independent, conservative voter.  BUT, I was allowed/selected to be a poll watcher.

You think that it's bad that photo ID isn't allowed in your state?  In mine, a utility bill, whether your name is on it or not, qualifies you to vote.  You're allowd to make a simple declaration why your name is not on the utility bill, then allowed to vote.

Posted by: MDr at October 21, 2009 04:33 PM (ucq49)

81 conservative estimates are all over 200 million privately owned firearms in the US. just saying.

Posted by: evil libertarian at October 21, 2009 05:28 PM (7y71/)

82

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Posted by: jason at October 21, 2009 10:58 PM (ZkesI)

83
Fixed fortifications are monuments to man's stupidity.
- George S. Patton

A border fence is not the answer.

The solution to illegal aliens invading our country is to make it impossible for them to function in society once they get here. Illegals will depart when laws are created, and existing laws enforced, to prevent illegal aliens from
workingvotingconducting financial transactions at banks or other institutionsbuying a house or renting an apartmentenrolling their children in public schoolregistering a car or obtaining a driver's licenseotherwise functioning in society
As it stands right now, once illegals are over the border, they're pretty much home free. Making it more difficult to get past the border will help some, but not very much. The border does need to be secured against Islamic terrorists, but ONLY as part of a larger comprehensive effort to protect the country against that threat. It is not an effective defense against illegal aliens.

The virtue of systematically excluding illegals from American society is that it will not only discourage them from coming here, but will encourage those who are already among us to return from whence they came.

Back when I was in high school in the late 80's and early 90's, I was required to provide official documents to prove I was a U.S. Citizen in order to get a job at the local fast food joints. Today all those jobs are being done by illegal aliens. If even the existing laws were being enforced then this would not be happening. What good is a border fence when the local Wendy's franchise owner is willing to pay Paco under the table? But if Paco can't use that money to put a roof over his head, has to ride the bus to work because he can't drive, and can't send his kids to school, then he simply won't stick around.  This is why e-verify is so very important, far more so than a fence.

The reason for keeping illegals out is not so that members of the American losing class will still be able to find jobs scrubbing toilets, shovelling shit, or flipping burgers. The reason to do this is to prevent the Gramscian Marxists which the left is largely comprised of from being able to exploit illegals for their ethnicity. For those of you who are not familiar with Gramscian Marxism, a good explanation (with a Catholic skew) can be found here:

http://tinyurl.com/yfaeta9

Who was Antonio Gramsci? How was he influencial on the ''Frankfurt School''? And what has the ''Frankfurt School'' been doing to our kids for the last 50 years?

I am about to give a synopsis of the most dangerous threat the Western World has ever faced - worse than Osama bin Laden by a longshot. It's a conspiracy to change the hearts and minds of those living in freedom so that they will not just embrace slavery and bondage to the State, but they will riverdance joyfully right into the gulag. Europe has already succumbed to it.

Antonio Gramsci (pronounced ''GRAM-ski''), was one of the founders of the Italian Communist Party, and he died a prisoner of Mussolini's prison system on April 27, 1937. While imprisoned he kept a diary of his political musings and historical studies and insites. These Prison Diaries give a full picture of Gramsci's ideas on Marxism, which were quite different than those of the Soviets, who provided money and logistics to the Italian Party in its early years.

The Soviet model for the spread of Communism was the export of revolution. Soviet agencies would find and support communists in a country who engaged in protest at government policies and actions. Meanwhile Soviet spies worked at subverting the government's response to political and social need, as well as Party activities, both legitimate and illegitimate. The theory goes that the combination of fomenting popular dissent coupled with subverting the normal function of government would cause the populace to rise in revolt, and in the ensuing chaos the Communists would take power, ruthlessly sweep aside all competitors, and a new ''prolateriat of the people'' would be born.

Gramsci's insite, indeed his genius, came from comparing Italian history to Russian history. He determined that despite the efforts of the Czar to modernize Russia in the pre-revolutionary period, Russia was not a Western nation. Italy was, and Gramsci thought that Western traditions and values were simply too strongly engrained in the Italian people, and the people of other Western nations, to be overcome by armed revolution.
Gramsci advocated a long-term approach instead. He thought the only way to conquer the West was to destroy the West's political and religious values through moral subversion and reinterpret Western history in such a way that makes it look evil and corrupt. Gramsci knew this was a long term goal, since those people of his own generation were exposed to Western values and would be unwilling to give them up. Gramsci knew though that future generations could be influenced IF there was a way of exposing them to the proper propaganda. Gramsci, in a shrewd mix of Machiavelli, Marx and Proverbs 22:6, advocated attacking the children through the schools in order to - Pied Piper-like - lead them into communism.

Gramsci had many followers both in Italy and Germany, although he was generally derided in Soviet influenced circles. Among those followers were a group of German education theorists known as the ''Frankfurt School''.

Headed by Max Horkheimer, the group included Theodor Adorno, Alfred Schmidt, Jurgen Habermas, Erich Fromm, and Wilhelm Reich - all names that should be familiar to any Political Science, Education, Psychology or Philosophy majors and degree holders. The philosophic outlook of the School was Gramscian, although Max Weber, Sigmund Freud, Immanuel Kant, and Friedrich Hegel were also influential. The members of the Frankfurt School saw it as their duty to comment on social conditions which Marx may not have been aware of and attempt to influence public policy along Marxist lines to change those social conditions.

This was due to the belief that even the individual and the family unit were repressive structures imposed by capitalism and Christianity. By liberating the individual from social controling factors of their culture, people would be free to follow the logical and rational choice of communism. Universal values (like equality before the law), and even the concept of ''truth'' itself - which are central to Western civilization and are the contribution of Judaism and Christianity to Western political thought - were deemed to be simply a means of oppressing the individual from accepting communism.

In 1933, the members of the Frankfurt School fled Germany once Hitler took power. The majority of the members of the movement came to the United States where they were allowed to teach in American universities. They were very influential in Political Science and Education departments, where their social criticisms were deemed a new way of looking at social structure, called ''deconstructionism''.
Essentially, they began rewriting history in such a way that makes Western Culture look guilty of crimes against all other cultures it has come into contact with. The reason the West committed these crimes was due to trying to spread the poison of Christianity to other cultures so they could be subdued and exploited.

Christianity was guilty of crimes against humanity - it encouraged slavery, attempted to impose itself on Islam by force through the Crusades, murdered millions in the Spanish Inquisition, tried to silence Galileo from pushing forward the boundaries of rationalism and science, destroyed the cultures of North and Central America in a search for filthy lucre, attempted to do the same to the Far East and Africa through colonialization, and was responsible for the murder of 8 million Jews in the Holocaust. Christianity was genocidal, repressive of sexual expression, the justification for capitalistic exploitation, and placed restraints on the individual, the family and society in order to keep the oppresive class structure going.

Over the years they influenced generations of students, using tenure to launch attacks on both American and European Culture and those in academia who opposed their views. The 1960's counterculture and peace movements, long recognized by both political sides as being a leftist phenominon, was a direct result of this Gramsciist indoctrination - ''You can't trust the social institutions or the government because they are run by the Man and should be torn down.''

By starting in the Education, Poli Sci, and Philosophy departments, the Gramsciists gained control over the Teachers, Bureaucrats, and Lawyers (since according to the UNF Philosophy Department's own brosure, Philosophy majors are the most successful majors in Law School, and do the best in courtroom settings according to statistics). The most important of these was the teachers.

Those of you who are old enough to have had your children in the 1960's probably remember the news stories about ''The New Math''. Certainly you remember the first efforts at Sex Education. Probably fewer of you remember the controversy over teaching phonics, or ''values education''. Only those ostriches with their heads in the sand can fail to notice the more modern educational talk about ''tolerance'', ''diversity'', ''multiculturalism'', ''critical thinking'' and ''political correctness''.
All of this - ALL of this - is part of the Gramsciist theory of taking over a culture. Stop teaching the rugrats the skills needed to function successfully in society, such as reading, writing and arithmatics, and start teaching them to not be judgemental and the proper way to put a condom on (since they are going to have sex anyway because they shouldn't follow mom and dad's judgemental attitude towards premarital sex among minors. ''How dare they impose their hypocritical, Christian, outdated morals on me! Oh, my aching self-esteem!'')

Why can't Johnny read? Because we stopped teaching him how to read and started teaching him to be critical of traditional values and uncritical of non-traditional values. But don't worry, some one who can read will read Heather Has Two Mommies to him. Right after the filmstrip of George W. Bush's war crimes. We already see the effect of Gramsciism all around us - the anti-War movement, the Gay marriage movement, the Environmental movement, the phenominon of The DaVinci Code. All began with a change in what was being taught in school.

By understanding Gramsciism's hold on modern society can we hope to understand why groups always on the fringe of society are able to gain consessions under the law. And with control of the schools, the mindset that allows this to happen is engrained at an early age. Train up a child in the way he should go...

This is a leaderless conspiracy. There is no smoke filled room running the ''great conspiracy'' because Gramsci knew all that was needed was a seed being planted. Gramsci spoke of cultural ''hegemony'', which simply means that those in power set the philosophy by which those not in power live by. All that was needed was to control one part of the culture - the one where the young learned how to function within the culture - by which they would be taught the ''truth'' about their culture and the ''common sense'' of Marxism. And when the children reached the age where they took control of society they would act in a way that moved society towards that ''common sense''. ''Thinking globally and acting locally.''

In this way, ''leaders'' and ''organizer'' would arise from within the ranks of bourgeois society; in short a ''new intellectual'' would arise who saw his purpose as organizing the people rather than the ruling class. As Gramsci himself stated, ''The mode of being of the new intellectual can no longer consist in eloquence, but in active participation in practical life, as constructor, organizer, 'permanent persuader' and not just a simple orator.''Gramscianism is the basis of Political Correctness and the notion that being a racial or ethnic minority entitles someone to special treatment.  They are the ones who have convinced so many that they are victims of oppression because of their skin color or the fact that their surname ends with a vowel.  They are the promoters of hyphenated americanism and the adversarial tribalism that underlies it.

Keeping illegal aliens out helps to prevent gramscians from being able to do more damage than they already have.  Without illegals, there would be no groups like La Raza. 

Posted by: Lee at October 22, 2009 04:09 AM (TcVyy)

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A border fence is not the answer.

Sorry Lee and Vic, but it IS the answer, *along* with employer sanctions and otherwise making it difficult for illegals to be here. But I am telling you that the underground / in cash / off the books economy is quite large, even for US citizens, let alone illegals. Good luck curtailing it short of making the USA a police state. Of course if we could racially profile, it would help, but boo hoo hoo cry the Commiecrats and the duped liberal sheeple.

The solution to illegal aliens invading our country is to make it impossible for them to function in society once they get here. Illegals will depart when laws are created, and existing laws enforced, to prevent illegal aliens from
working / voting / conducting financial transactions at banks or other institutions / buying a house or renting an apartment / enrolling their children in public school/registering a car or obtaining a driver's license / otherwise functioning in society.

All well and good!  I am all for that too, but all of that will easily be more costly to enforce than to build a wall. Moreover, there is NO excuse for leaving the southern border unguarded and unwalled. Hell, Mexico itself is walling off its own southern border with Guatemala (believe it or not, they have a problem with people sneaking in from even poorer parts of Latin America). All kinds of nations around the planet have walled off borders to keep unwanted people out, with successful results.

Without a border wall to keep them out, the deported illegals are back within days, weeks tops, after they are thrown out. Dog chasing tail. It is EASILY cheaper for us to build a Great Wall from San Diego to Brownsville, stemming the flow of illegal aliens, than it is to hire that many ICE (formerly INS) agents and pay that large a bureaucracy staff to administer the laws and the roundups.

(NOTE: Again, I am all for massive ICE agent raids too; I am just pointing out the cost effectiveness)

As for Patton's quote, that applies to blitzkriegs with tanks, NOT to humans with bare hands.

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