1 Mwha ha ha ha ha! Who's Charlie Gibson?

2 Too nice to make  tough decisions? Er no, he is too much of a coward to OWN the tough decisions.

3
It is what it is.

4 Anyone know of what happens to military members families under this bill?  I've asked Senator Nelson here in FL and got nadda.  I'm assuming the DoD will stop covering dependents (TRICARE) and allow the government health care to take them over with that and save the DoD millions.  Anyone here anything?

5 This perception is all Fox News fault. 

6 It's not fecklessness or inexperience or niceness. It's plausible deniability. Obama ran as a moderate. He needs the legislature to do the dirty work so he can simply sign "the will of the people" into law.

Until he and lawyers figure out a way to create a "Fiat Czar" this is how it's gonna be for health care.

7 Can i say this is something I'm finally glad for. That's Not often these days.

8 TRICARE:
Posted by: CDR M at October 19, 2009 06:01 PM (cvmTR)

There was talk earlier on that I heard that would exempt Tricare from both being effected and also from the possibility that the "benefit" would be taxed. I have not heard anything since then. I am worried also, since not matter what Obama and his democratic friends say, they hate us in the military.
LCDR S

9 Too nice to make tough decisions?  That's f*cking funny. ABC News is deluded. He doesn't make easy decisions, why should we expect him to make the tough ones.

10 Heh!  Elections have consequences, House Democrats!  Sucks to be you!

11

We still don't have a piece of paper that says what his plan is. We're kind of like pilots flying blind," he added.

tee hee

12 Present!

13 freshman Rep. Eric Massa (D-N.Y.) openly lamented the Obama administration's calculated decision to let the House and Senate craft their own health bills

Calculated decision?  Surely you jest, sir!

Obama's style has always been to let others do the work while he takes the credit - it's not his fault that strategy doesn't work so well in the top job.

14

The president's job is to dictate.

Congress's job is to do... and then relinquish credit for unto Dear Leader.

He won. He did the winning. Losers.

15 Racist losers.

16 The Senate bitch cheated on me.  Obama is all out of KY summits.  He keeps taking Michelle out.

17 psst.  Any chance we could get a post on NY-23, since the post below was apparently supposed to be just about etiquette?

18 "Too stoned to make tough decisions"

19
I think I figured out the real reason there is no tort reform in Obama's plan.

It's not because the trial lawyers are the Dems biggest donors. The reason is this: Obama wants to destroy the private insurance industry, right? Well, he's gonna make it so he does just that but it doesn't look like he's doing it. How?

Easy. ObamaCare is gonna make it so the trial lawyers (with the help of the AG and state's attorneys general) can sue the insurance companies into bankruptcy.

Therefore, trial lawyers are a BIG part of Obama's plan. Insidious, isn't it? It's downright evil.

20

So our President is a lazy do-nothing pussy.

In related news, Dog Bites Man. Film at 11.

_{we are so fucked™}

21 We all know he supports a single payer system. We all know he has said he is willing to forego a second term in order to do the right thing by healthcare reform. So for him to not lead, is merely his own cowardly way to distance himself from the whole thing in hopes the dems ram it through and still maintain the country's interest. Would you want to "lead" on something that is only popular with 42% of Americans? Hell, the polling people probably called some dead people or zombies to even get that 42%.

22 think he'll ask the republicans to help come Mop up this mess?

23 Everyone keeps telling us how intelligent and "brilliant" the one is.  Is this really true?  My cats make quicker and better decisions than he does!  And they need no polling or help from hired hacks either.

24 Better eat your veggies and fruit or you will be out in the cold when and if this passes, God liberals are stupid!!

25 think he'll ask the republicans to help come Mop up this mess?
Posted by: willow at October 19, 2009 06:12 PM (1kwr2)

No that is not what Liberals do. They blame Republicans for the mess and then just leave it there to fester.

26 And yet they wonder why their ratings are tanking.

27 Hey bitches, talk amongst yourselves.  I'm a little busy here.  I'm  in the most important, epic battle of my life.  I need to devote adequate time and energy to meet with my war council.  It is absolutely necessary that we spend the time and resources needed to develop and pursue a tough and well thought out strategy to fight those great enemies of America, Fox news.  This Presidenting is hard.  Now buzz off!

28 8 TRICARE:
Posted by: CDR M at October 19, 2009 06:01 PM (cvmTR)

There was talk earlier on that I heard that would exempt Tricare from both being effected and also from the possibility that the "benefit" would be taxed. I have not heard anything since then. I am worried also, since not matter what Obama and his democratic friends say, they hate us in the military.
LCDR S

Posted by: nevergiveup at October 19, 2009 06:05 PM (TfW4T)

Well, I'm gonna keep calling Sen. Nelson every day until I get somewhere.  At least my Congressman is a Republican AND military friendly.  I posed him the question the other day.  Still haven't heard back yet why Congress placed 1 Jul 2006 as the cutoff for the Housing Assistance Program that was supposed to help servicemembers offset their housing loses when executing orders.  Seems like Congress does not want to spend too much of the 787 billion on the military.  I know a lot of guys that are facing some huge loses because of the 1 Jul 06 cutoff.

29 Everyone keeps telling us how intelligent and "brilliant" the one is.  Is this really true?  My cats make quicker and better decisions than he does!  And they need no polling or help from hired hacks either.

But your cats are probably easily distracted by laser pointers.  Obama is not distracted by laser pointers.

30 When Stupid calls, I answer!

31 How can it be the public gives the non-plan only a 45% level of support (according to the WaPo) poll but is apparently keen on the government option and higher taxes?

Are we really just going to skip over the possibility that WaPo, or their pollster, is flat out lying?

32 If this flaming pile passes both the House and Senate all hell will break loose. DON'T WANT.

33 "Obama is not distracted by laser pointers."

How do you know that?

34 We seem to be moving from a representative democracy to a dictatorship. We are following the Roman model. It is much easier for the leaders to lead if the people need not be consulted. It seems to me that we have a brief window to disabuse them of that notion.

35 Palin has a new op-ed on 0bammy-Care with lotsa footnotes-n-shit:

The Healthcare Reform Plan Sucks

Now that the Senate Finance Committee has approved its health care bill, it’s a good time to step back and take a look at the long term consequences should its provisions be enacted into law.

The bill prohibits insurance companies from refusing coverage to people with pre-existing conditions and from charging sick people higher premiums. [1] It attempts to offset the costs this will impose on insurance companies by requiring everyone to purchase coverage, which in theory would expand the pool of paying policy holders.

However, the maximum fine for those who refuse to purchase health insurance is $750. [2] Even factoring in government subsidies, the cost of purchasing a plan is much more than $750. The result: many people, especially the young and healthy, will simply not buy coverage, choosing to pay the fine instead. They’ll wait until they’re sick to buy health insurance, confident in the knowledge that insurance companies can’t deny them coverage. Such a scenario is a perfect storm for increasing the cost of health care and creating an unsustainable mandate program.

Those driving this plan no doubt have good intentions, but good intentions aren’t enough. There were good intentions behind the drive to increase home ownership for lower-income Americans, but forcing financial institutions to give loans to people who couldn’t afford them had terrible unintended consequences. We all felt those consequences during the financial collapse last year. Unintended consequences always result from top-down big government plans like the current health care proposals, and we can’t afford to ignore that fact again.

Supposedly the Senate Finance bill will be paid for by cutting Medicare by nearly half a trillion dollars and by taxing the so-called “Cadillac” health care plans enjoyed by many union members. The plan will also impose heavy taxes on insurers, pharmaceutical companies, medical device companies, and clinical labs. [3] The result of all of these taxes is clear. As Douglas Holtz-Eakin noted in the Wall Street Journal, these new taxes “will be passed on to consumers by either directly raising insurance premiums, or by fueling higher health-care costs that inevitably lead to higher premiums.” [4] Unfortunately, it will lead to lower wages too, as employees will have to sacrifice a greater percentage of their paychecks to cover these higher premiums. [5] In other words, if the Democrats succeed in overhauling health care, we’ll all bear the costs. The Senate Finance bill is effectively a middle class tax increase, and as Holtz-Eakin points out, according to the Joint Committee on Taxation those making less than $200,000 will be hit hardest. [6]

With our country’s debt and deficits growing at an alarming rate, many of us can’t help but wonder how we can afford a new trillion dollar entitlement program. The president has promised that he won’t sign a health care bill if it “adds even one dime to our deficit over the next decade.” [7] But his administration also promised that his nearly trillion dollar stimulus plan would keep the unemployment rate below 8%. [8] Last month, our unemployment rate was 9.8%, the highest it’s been in 26 years. [9] At first the current administration promised that the stimulus would save or create 3 to 4 million jobs. [10] Then they declared that it created 1 million jobs, but the stimulus reports released this week showed that a mere 30,083 jobs have been created, while nearly 3.4 million jobs have been lost since the stimulus was passed. [11] Should we believe the administration’s claims about health care when their promises have proven so unreliable about the stimulus?

In January 2008, presidential candidate Obama promised not to negotiate behind closed doors with health care lobbyists. In fact, he committed to “broadcasting those negotiations on C-SPAN so that the American people can see what the choices are. Because part of what we have to do is enlist the American people in this process. And overcoming the special interests and the lobbyists...” [12] However, last February, after serving only a few weeks in office, President Obama met privately at the White House with health care industry executives and lobbyists. [13] Yesterday, POLITICO reported that aides to President Obama and Democrat Senator Max Baucus met with corporate lobbyists in April to help “set in motion a multimillion-dollar advertising campaign, primarily financed by industry groups, that has played a key role in bolstering public support for health care reform.” [14] Needless to say, their negotiations were not broadcast on C-SPAN for the American people to see.

Presidential candidate Obama also promised that he would not “sign any nonemergency bill without giving the American public an opportunity to review and comment on the White House Web site for five days.” [15] PolitiFact reports that this promise has already been broken three times by the current administration. [16] We can only hope that it won’t be broken again with health care reform.

All of this certainly gives the appearance of politics-as-usual in Washington with no change in sight.

Americans want health care reform because we want affordable health care. We don’t need subsidies or a public option. We don’t need a nationalized health care industry. We need to reduce health care costs. But the Senate Finance plan will dramatically increase those costs, all the while ignoring common sense cost-saving measures like tort reform. Though a Congressional Budget Office report confirmed that reforming medical malpractice and liability laws could save as much as $54 billion over the next ten years, tort reform is nowhere to be found in the Senate Finance bill. [17]

Here’s a novel idea. Instead of working contrary to the free market, let’s embrace the free market. Instead of going to war with certain private sector companies, let’s embrace real private-sector competition and allow consumers to purchase plans across state lines. Instead of taxing the so-called “Cadillac” plans that people get through their employers, let’s give individuals who purchase their own health care the same tax benefits we currently give employer-provided health care recipients. Instead of crippling Medicare, let’s reform it by providing recipients with vouchers so that they can purchase their own coverage.

Now is the time to make your voices heard before it’s too late. If we don’t fight for the market-oriented, patient-centered, and result-driven reform plan that we deserve, we’ll be left with the disastrous unintended consequences of the plans currently being cooked up in Washington.

(This post originally appeared on the author's Facebook page)

[1] See http://tinyurl.com/yjs3mgf
[2] See http://tinyurl.com/yfuw3k3
[3] See http://tinyurl.com/yfxq8ca
[4] See http://tinyurl.com/ykefsk6
[5] See http://tinyurl.com/ygf42fj
[6] See http://tinyurl.com/ykefsk6
[7] See http://tinyurl.com/lkvgsp
[8] See http://tinyurl.com/nx4nh6
[9] See ibid.
[10] See http://tinyurl.com/yhhr56v
[11] See ibid.
[12] See http://tinyurl.com/yhzhkvg and http://tinyurl.com/lhyr9o
[13] See http://tinyurl.com/yksd6h3
[14] See http://tinyurl.com/yl9gg27
[15] See http://tinyurl.com/yknpxd6
[16] See http://tinyurl.com/d2k5hb
[17] See http://tinyurl.com/yf8qmfh

36 He's given at least 30 speeches revolving around health care, several in prime time...and everytime he has opened his mouth fewer people favor it. Maybe they should be grateful he isn't doing more.

37 But your cats are probably easily distracted by laser pointers.  Obama is not distracted by laser pointers.

Good point!  But He is easily distracted by 16 year old (Brazilian ?) girls though.  Remember that? 

38 I genuinely have no theories on this: How can it be the public gives the non-plan only a 45% level of support (according to the WaPo) poll but is apparently keen on the government option and higher taxes?

Simple, it depends on how the questions are asked.

39

"When Stupid calls, I answer"

Olympia, I guess that explains that t-shirt you're wearing--"I'm with Stupid".

40 Obama's Not Leading on Health Care

Duh!?!  If he got out front with an actual plan and it failed, it would be his fault.

No way that's going to happen.  Nope, he'll sign whatever he gets, alone on the stage, and claim victory.

41 As is the case with the rest of the state run media complex, I trust absolutely nothing that emanates from the Washington Post, and that includes their polling methods and results.

42

uh oh, even with a chitty can't figure out how to write the bill, it still might pass?

43
What's sad is that only a former governor is out there making the obvious points about this debacle about to be foisted on the American people.

Why aren't the R-congressmen out there simply saying over and over, "The Democrat's plan fixes nothing, reforms nothing, makes health care worse?"

Instead our R-shitheads are devising their own watered-down version of ObamaCare? Fuck that.

44 Why...

It's Almost as if Obama has No Experience at All!

45 I think he reversed the numbers on the plan specific details. If not, this poll is a flaming pile of dog crap on our doorstep.

46

It really doesn’t matter what the polls are. It really doesn’t matter what actually winds up in the legislation. We will get a bill this year and it will be signed into law. You can blame Snowe for that.

 

The “bill” will be the camel’s nose in the tent. Once that happens there are two roads most likely to occur. The Republicans self-destruct like they have a habit of doing and the Dems maintain control of both houses of congress as well as the WH for the next 6 years.

 

In that case, within that 6 years the healthcare industry in the U.S. will be essentially nationalized. Forget “insurance”, we are talking about everyone under Medicare/Medicaid or something else that does the same thing with a different name..

 

The other avenue is that the Republicans take back the House and a good portion of the Senate and elect a non-RINO as President in 2012.  What ever crap bill that gets passed this year will stay in place until the Dems take back those seats and the WH and then they will nationalize healthcare.

 

If Snowe had held out and voted Republican it could have been blocked until after 2010 and then for a long time.

 

Too late now.

47 These fucking amateurs ...

48
If the shoe fits...

49 Time for another Conservative Party and get rid of these Republican lites!

50 ace -- the reason for the support of the public option is the wording. The times I've read through, it's generally presented as "Would you be in favor of a government health insurance plan that functioned as a last resort of people who could not find coverage under private plans?"

Put that way, you'd have to actually know something about the issue to say "No."

If instead the question was "Would you be in favor of a public insurance plan that, while it was sold as an insurer of last resort, is in fact a not even veiled attempt to put private insurers out of business, resulting in a complete government takeover of health care?" I think those numbers would drop significantly. Like, down to the 13-17% of hardcore liberal/socialist/Marxist/bong-water-tools.

51 I genuinely have no theories on this: How can it be the public gives the non-plan only a 45% level of support (according to the WaPo) poll but is apparently keen on the government option and higher taxes?

The same way we get atheists who believe in God on religious surveys: they're fucking retards.

52
I didn't leave the Republican party, the Republican party left me.

53 The Washington Post could find a poll supporting sacrificing the first born children of all Americans to Dagon if President Obama wanted it.

54 Are we really just going to skip over the possibility that WaPo, or their pollster, is flat out lying?

Or just "massaging" the truth....

55

 

The poll's questions probably skew the result. See, if I ask:

Would you favor a government sponsored option on health insurance?

I probably get about the 45-48 result.

Now, if I ask:

Would you favor a public option on health care that increases competition?

Wonder what my results would be.

I pose this because the article does not state the questions language. However, in the write up, the author states that a majority now favors "a public option that would compete with private insurance..."

Gee, I wonder what question they actually did use.

56

I genuinely have no theories on this: How can it be the public gives the non-plan only a 45% level of support (according to the WaPo) poll but is apparently keen on the government option and higher taxes?

That is because you are not a professional journalist working with the benefit of layers of fact-checkers and editors!  Otherwise you would have recognized this advanced journalistic technique, known in the trade as "Lying out our asses for the Dems".

57 Hey did the Dems forget ... Oba-Mao is a reader, not a leader. And a radical to boot.

58 If the Dems get slaughtered in November, I don't think a healthcare bill will pass.

59

Would you favor a public option on health care that increases competition?

>>> Or better yet, would you prefer a public option on health care or your dog to be poisoned?

60 The WaPo poll is obviously not asking the questions in a neutral manner.  Those provisions are absolutely electoral poison.  WaPo has push-polled a bunch of Tuesday daytime-at-home mouthbreathers. 

61 Why aren't the R-congressmen out there simply saying over and over, "The Democrat's plan fixes nothing, reforms nothing, makes health care worse?"

Whips and chains.  The office holders on the hill ought to be following their leader especially as the minority.  The minority whips should take care of that.

62 The answer is to boycott anything liberal, game over!

63 The answer is to boycott anything liberal, game over!
Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at October 19, 2009 06:30 PM (R7Cr2)

I already don't talk to my extended family?

64

Ha!  Even though you morons are impervious to the charms of the pretty red laser pointer, I know some of you would be definitely distracted by  the bright, shiny, bouncy, nubile NFL cherleaders featured here:  http://tinyurl.com/yzs3nzt

Don't say I never gave you guys anything.

65 63,

Really, if all conservatives would do that they wouldn't have a platform.

66 The "people" think that the government option IS FREE. They do not understand. 1/2  don't pay taxes (or more) anyway.

67 Is astroturfing for a public option a good idea at this point?

68 Everyone keeps telling us how intelligent and "brilliant" the one is. Is this really true?

No. This guy's a absolute moron. If it weren't for me, Dumbo would just be wandering around the West Wing bumping into walls.

Believe me. He's a complete imbecile, but for some reason people seem to like him. So, who am I to complain?

69 58 If the Dems get slaughtered in November, I don't think a healthcare bill will pass.
Posted by: Eddie Baby at October 19, 2009 06:29 PM (ocUBb)

Neither do they: that's why we can expect the old Big Push to pass the thing in the next two or three weeks.

But let me tell ya: they try that "reconciliation" BS, and all hell breaks loose. Electoral "slaughter" will be the mild way to put it.

70

Are we really just going to skip over the possibility that WaPo, or their pollster, is flat out lying?

Or just "massaging" the truth....

Mmm, I love massage!  Self massage while thumbing through my Barack Obama Swimsuit Calendar is one of the best ways I blow off a little steam!

71 But Rahm... he hired YOU, didn't he???

72 Grasshopper, the conundrum belies the woeful, idiotic reporting that most people rely on from the state controlled media.  The average person has no idea what the hell is going on, so why should their opinions make sense?

73 I've known people (and groups of people) who insulate themselves from others. Their points of view go away. Boycotting "anything liberal" is not an effective option, in my opinion. Also, you'd need complete agreement among all conservatives as to what constitutes something liberal. Some of us might not particularly care if gay marriage (or unions) goes ahead. So, does that mean I'm a liberal and you'd boycott myself and my books, even if you and I agreed on everything else?

74 The highly favorable polling on the Public Option is a product of it being described as an "option". Most people hear that and assume that they have an option to take it or leave it, and who doesn't want more "options" in life?

Would you prefer a new car with an option to get whitwalls? Or one with no option to get whitewalls? Few people will choose to limit their options, even if they don't think they are going to use it.

The fallacy here is that the "option" is one that is not cost free. The government is going to pay to set up the option, will control the option, and in all likelihood will be bailing out the option long term. (Even though the proponents claim all costs will be covered by fees -- how's that working out with Amtrack?)

I'm not even sure that many people realize that the "Public Option" is government set up, run, or controlled. Walmart has "Public Restrooms", so the term can be broadly applied.

Some of us have pushed to get the term replaced by "Government set up, run, and subsidized plan" but for some reason (heh) that hasn't caught on with the media.

75 ack -- didn't mean "unions" as in "labor unions" but in the "civil unions" sense. F da SEIU, bruthas.

76

I was picking nits out of my pony-tail when I stumbled across this thread.

You people sicken me.

Any person with half a brain can see that "healthcare" is just a far-right wingnut code-word for "that darkie in the White House who wants our women".

Besides, I've checked IP's for the entire internet and I noticed that 5 people who read this page also google-searched Vlaams-Belang and/or like country music.

If you knuckle-draggers need me, I'll be posting jazz flute videos on my blog and fellating insurance salesman in bus station bathrooms.

 

77 Why am I not leading on health care?
Because when it all turns into an unpleasant pile of steaming shit, I can play the Cardigan Defense*.

*"It is a mad-brained trick," said Cardigan of the charge, "but it is no fault of mine."

78 Here is how we asked the government option question.

Would you support or oppose having the government create a new health insurance plan to compete with private health insurance plans? Do you feel that way strongly or somewhat?

The trend is up for support.  Here's the 4 data points for the net support.
6/21: 62
8/17: 52
9/12: 55
10/18: 57

 11. Would you support or oppose a law that requires all Americans to have health insurance, either getting it from work, buying it on their own, or through eligibility for Medicare or Medicaid?

           Support   Oppose   No opinion
10/18/09     56        41          3

Good gawd.  56% of respondents favor compulsory medicine.

79

Rush said this today:

And the president who smiles better than any president in our history launches a vicious, bald-faced, demagogic attack on straw men.  These no-approval polls reveal that his previous attacks blaming Republicans didn't work so now he's blaming it on insurance companies, after blaming it on doctors, after blaming it on the drug companies.  Mr. President, if I may: The fault lies not in our stars but in the five plans.  All of your domination of TV time has not made a case for a single plan.  There are five different plans.  You can't figure out which way to go.  It's Democrats and Democrats' constituencies and voting blocs that are the problem here.  

It ain't talk radio, and it ain't Fox News, and you can try to distract everybody from your plunging support on health care all you want by picking a fight with Fox News -- and you can pick a fight with me, and you can send your NFL buddies after me and do all you want. But we cannot allow you to get away with covering up the fact that it is you, sir, who are failing.  The great unifier, Barack Obama, can't even put the elements of his own party together on the same page to support what he bet the ball game on: Health care.  They are on the defensive on this, folks.  Do not fall prey to the sordid trash that is disguised as news today, 'cause it is nothing but sordid trash no matter where you get it.  In a newspaper, on a television, in sports magazine.  It doesn't matter where you get it.  It is trash, drivel, and garbage.  

The fact is they're on the defensive.  This health care thing is ballgame.  So keep attacking the insurance companies.  You keep attacking all these straw dogs.  We are going to keep pointing out the real problem and real solutions, such as portability of private insurance plans from state to state so you can put all these 1700 insurance companies competing with each other to lower premiums. Just because you live in Alabama doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to buy a plan from a company in Missouri, but you can't right now.  We're also talking tort reform, reduction in defensive medicine, real competition among the 1300 to 1700 insurance companies. Let 'em compete across state lines! Consumer control, the kind of reforms that would really reform.  As for his vicious attacks on insurance companies, I have a suggestion, sir.

If you're going to attack insurance companies, would you please attack those in Iran and Afghanistan and in North Korea and the Taliban insurance company and the Venezuelan insurance company?  You know, our real enemies, sir?  The really enemies of this country are not Fox News, talk radio, Rush Limbaugh, you name it.  Our foreign policy is falling apart.  This Afghanistan thing is spinning out of control and we're letting lug heads like John Kerry and Joe Biden dictate what the hell is going to happen there.  Folks, it is a disaster mess that we're in (sigh) and the business that was once the safeguard against all this has thrown in its lot with the Obama administration, and whatever character and integrity they used to have is now almost all gone.  

80
53 The Washington Post could find a poll supporting sacrificing the first born children of all Americans to Dagon if President Obama wanted it.

All your first born are mine.

81 I once went to a focus group where they wanted opinions on the idea that there should be a law against vending machines in high schools. After much propaganda and "helping" everyone to understand, the entire room, except me, was all in favor of passing LAWS against vending machines. It was going great for the guys behind the one way glass until I asked the room if they really wanted LAWS telling them what they could or could not buy. The room flipped. I was told that I couldn't talk anymore. They never did get the room back. If the sheeple hear the opposition they may flip.

82 WTF.  55 can't touch this.  You gotta hit 60 to roll with me.

WTF WAPO/ABC.  You lie!

83

Ref #52...

 

They left us all,

We win when we elect true conservatives.

84 off topic

net neutrality on thursday
all week propaganda on all networks

things are moving right along

85

Posted by: Dagny at October 19, 2009 06:47 PM (KSeJZ)

You go girl!  Good on you!  Sheeple!

86 Dagny: That's a great illustration, and one that I've seen a bunch of times. Most people that I've met have a decent head on their shoulders, but when someone tells them something that sounds kind of reasonable, they take it on faith that that person isn't using reasonable language to hide something that's probably antithetical to their values. All it takes is one articulate person who is thinking ahead to speak up, and they make the right choice.

That's why I always speak up.

87 Although yeah -- I particularly care for the term sheeple. It's derogatory, and I choose not to insult the great number of people in this country who just to keep their head down, work hard and drink a beer (or glass of wine) at the end of the day. Just because folks aren't thinking two steps ahead of those trying to deceive them doesn't mean their heart isn't in the right place.

88 Holy crap. I can't type tonight. I mean I don't particularly care for the term "sheeple".

89 According to an attorney friend of mine ( yea, I know,,,,friends with an attorney lends little to my credibility) he said he's read the bill and it clearly states that if your children are not enrolled in the government option, you (the parent) can not be either.  So, if your children are covered by an ex-husbands insurance, but you are not, and you have some reason for not having private insurance, you can't have the government option either.  (who thinks of this crap?)  Also, if you are not enrolled in a private insurance plan on the day this pos takes effect, you will NOT be allowed to buy an insurance plan.  It also says that by 2019 the states must assume 100% financial responsibility for medicaid participants.  Does that mean no federal reimbursement?  Are they going to try and bankrupt the states in order to force federal health care?   

90

Speaking of polls, here's a good one that I'm sure WaPo won't be reporting on any time soon:

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi's fellow Californians now give her negative marks for her job performance, with 44 percent disapproving of how she's doing compared to 34 percent who approve, according to a Field poll conducted Sept. 18 - Oct. 5. Twenty-two percent had no opinion.

91 Are they going to try and bankrupt the states in order to force federal health care?   

Posted by: prettypinkfluffypanties at October 19, 2009 06:53 PM (FbmAs)

Uh, yeah!  Now we that you are on to our evil plan, we are going to have to kill you.  You should have kept your opinions to yourself, little missy. 

92

But He is easily distracted by 16 year old (Brazilian ?) girls though.  Remember that? 

Yeah, you'd be checkin' that stuff too if you had to sleep with the Big M every night like I do.  Sheesh

93

Holy crap. I can't type tonight. I mean I don't particularly care for the term "sheeple".

That's funny, Mr. Frakypants.  In Japanese the word "shippo" (pronounced like "sheepo" means tail or butt.  I think of Sheeple as "butts". 

94 Yeah, I'm sure if Bush were floundering around like this, it would be because he was just too darn nice.

95 I would think that at least part of the disapproval numbers come from people who don't think that the plan goes far enough.

96 Geez, I'm having an horrible time with sock puppets and spelling today!

97 Mark Levin ha just broken down the Washington Post poll.

98

Yeah, I'm sure if Bush were floundering around like this, it would be because he was just too darn nice.

Ha! Ha!  Yeah, just ask Paul Krugman.

99 Is "feckless" a typo?

100 Part of the problem is that everyone is here instead of on liberal blogs arguing against them and letting them know the consequences of their actions.

For all of the good things about the internet it does limit the amount of interaction between the sides.

The left needs to know we will be as angry at them as we would be if we had lost the Cold War and they were put in place by the Soviets to rule us.  They will never be considered legitimate.  Whatever they pass will never be accepted as legitimate.  Hope and change me ass.  Fear and loathing is more like it.

Someone posted something about the law to ban big screen tv's in CA on the AVS forum the other day.  Some dude tried to argue that it wasn't the appropriate place for politics.  But when the government intrudes on every aspect of life then that argument no longer holds.  EVERYTHING is political. 

The story that is NOT being reported by the media AT ALL is how divided the nation is under Obama.  There has never in my lifetime been as much strife between neighbors as there is now.  I imagine it was worse during the Vietnam war era but that is before the memory of most of the electorate.

101

Is "feckless" a typo?

Posted by: andycanuck at October 19, 2009 07:04 PM (2qU2d)

I don't like what you're implying.  Trust me, I keep my man satisfied!

 

102 Is anyone else seeing the comments really, really tiny?

103

"The Senate bill and the House bill are on different planets," Massa said during an appearance on the liberal "Bill Press Radio Show" podcast. "And they're on different planets because, as much as I want this administration to succeed, they did not present a piece of legislation to the United States Congress.

"We still don't have a piece of paper that says what his plan is. We're kind of like pilots flying blind," he added.

 

Excellent.

104

"The Senate bill and the House bill are on different planets," Massa said during an appearance on the liberal "Bill Press Radio Show" podcast. "And they're on different planets because, as much as I want this administration to succeed, they did not present a piece of legislation to the United States Congress.

"We still don't have a piece of paper that says what his plan is. We're kind of like pilots flying blind," he added.

Gosh, this could be a great SNL skit with blind pilots flying spaceships on different planets...too bad there's nothing funny about this administration.

105
The Compost is polling their newsroom again.  Really now, does that paper have any credibility after selling "salons"?  They're whores, put them on ignore.

106

  I imagine it was worse during the Vietnam war era but that is before the memory of most of the electorate

 

Nope, it is worse now. During the Vietnam era you had a lot of dissention that was publicized, but it was primarily young draft age kids who were egged on by communist funded agitators. Most of the adults were actually in agreement until the late 60s and early 70s when the news media decided to become anti-war and anti-U.S. .

 

The only time it has been worse than it is now is in the mid 1800s.

107 Is anyone else seeing the comments really, really tiny?

Posted by: logprof at October 19, 2009 07:14 PM (I3Udb)

No, the comments are fine.  You didn't take a swig from a bottle labeled "Drink Me", did you?

108 The Compost is polling their newsroom again.  Really now, does that paper have any credibility after selling "salons"?  They're whores, put them on ignore.

Posted by: Dang Straights at October 19, 2009 07:16 PM (TJ0yS)

Ignore the whore?

109 The Post also still employes Michael Wilbon, the journalist who prints lies and racist quotes and attributes them to an American citizen.

110 OMG, Mr. Pink, you had me in stitches this a.m.! 

111 102 Is anyone else seeing the comments really, really tiny?

Sounds like the medical marijuana is working.

112 The Washington Post is a left wing propaganda rag working hard for the Obama regime and it is simply spreading lies. This is not surprising, the left will do anything and say anything to further its Marxist/socialist agenda.

113

Baracky is just so darned nice.

..that's a peace prize

114
Ignore the whore?

Then who's gonna talk to Drew?

115 112

no doubt, the sample found 57.40 for obama on approval.

that is simply not true, and its propaganda, pure and simple.

116

Is anyone else seeing the comments really, really tiny?

I've had that problem on the main page in the past and just today after a long period of it being fine. Just refresh the page, logprof, and it should fix the type size.

117 O/T  Here's a 4-min. video of Lord Christopher Monckton, my favorite Brit, explaining what the UN Climate Treaty will do -- namely, take precedence over the Constitution and be impossible to get out of.  Beck had this guy on today.  The info was staggering.  http://tinyurl.com/yjogdgv

118 I once went to a focus group where they wanted opinions on the idea that there should be a law against vending machines in high schools. After much propaganda and "helping" everyone to understand...

So, in other words, they wanted the "focus group" to validate their policy preferences.

Science!

119 Ignore the whore?

I already do this. So I guess I have to ignore the whore some more.

120 Now who calls the shots on what is going into the newspapers right now today.  The owner(s), the editors. the Whitehouse. the DNC, the AP etc.  I'm serious. It seems that all the major papers run the same headlines,or worse yet, don't cover Obama bad news/ polls. Bottom line. Who tells them what or what not to print? They are all in lockstep.

121

34 We seem to be moving from a representative democracy to a dictatorship an oligarchy. We are following the Roman Chicago model.

FIFY 

122 OT, but apropos of the topic, is the Mainstream Media Bullshit Poll of the Day:

56% Support Public Option, Says ABC's Poll of 36 Interns Who Live On The Upper East Side:  http://tinyurl.com/ykmdbwl

123 The Washington Post doesn't even post the demographics in their poll data anymore. To embarrassed I guess.

124 OK, it was the topic.  I just got home.  Screw you.

125 110
Thanks. It was a boring morning at work and I had 4 cups of coffee in less than an hour. It was either sockpuppet or do matrix flips off the cubicle wall.

126

This is  TOTAL BULLSHIT. Wait till we see the sampling data.  Plus or minus 5?  Democrats polled, plus 10 vs GOP?

I know a con job, this is suck up for the one's hometown newspaper.

NO FUCKING SHAME!

Da Huh?

It is racist to question these numbers, asshole Nazi.

Kemp

127
from the other thread below:
>>>Hell, Ace, most of the people who post here are dickbags all the time. Arrogant, angry, assholes. That's why you didn't get that pajamas media endorsement or those big ad spots.

Posted by: Warren Bonesteel at October 19, 2009 07:43 PM<<<

STFU, Warren Bonehead

128 morons, whats up with Allah at Hotair?

check his last two posts.

one attacks beck and defends obama and anita dunn, sounds just like a daily koz post. 

the next attacks mitt romney because mitt attacked obama's surrender policy to iran - again, worthy of daily koz.

this ist he leading conservative blog, hotair, attacking conservatives and defending obama.

amazing.

does allah want to be on CNN or something?  Michelle M. should fire his ass..

129

So, even ABC News recognizes that an honest rendering of the 2008 Election Results should have looked thusly:

Mewling Pussy:  52%

Not a Mewling Pussy:  48%

    Thanks, 52% of America Still Apparently Sucking On Your Mommy's Tits!!!

130 I genuinely have no theories on this

Obviously, you have never studied the First Corollary of the Made Up Bullshit Theory.  And you call yourself an "elitist"......

131

Speaking of some of the trash that is in this bill and what it will be used for, Beck brought up something in his show today that I had not heard before. There is a call to raise the premiums of people who have “unhealthy lifestyles” because the people who lead “healthy” lives shouldn’t have to subsidize the people who lead unhealthy lives.

 

I have been against this shit from the beginning. It all sounds well and good for the anti-smoking zealots who can’t think of any hell that is too hot for a smoker but that isn’t where this kind of shit will lead. The problem is that the GOVERNMENT will decide what an unhealthy lifestyle is.

 

Beck said that the Obama admin has quietly restarted a program that had been terminated years ago. In that program the NIH was “studying” and writing a paper on the ownership of guns and its impact on health. That study has been restarted with the CDC.

 

It doesn’t take a massive leap of logic to see where this BS is going when tied to healthscam 2009.  The will issue health fines and increased premiums for gun owners until you can’t afford to own a gun unless you are rich (or an exempted politician).

132 morons, whats up with Allah at Hotair?

Semen buildup.

133

#76

Your banned cocksucker!

By the way what happen to the cocksucker competition?  number one a year or so again.

Is Ace not reporting the results because we lost again to that bitch in Canada?

 

134

#81 Dangy   I was on more than one telephone "Yellow Pages" focus group. I got paid for my time, and usually had a lunch.  I was outspoken to my rep. and usually had quite good ones, and that is mosy likely how I got invited. They told us up front that there were people behind the mirror, along with a camera that was recording. I always got the ball rolling  with the statement that they believed their own propaganga about how "unhelpful" they were to their customers. It always devided into two camps. Those who loved their YP, and those who said yes! he's right.  AH! the good times. Many good stories came out of these discusions.

135 132
I thought he got rid of that everytime he got an issue of Newsweek or Time delivered to his door with a picture of Obama on the cover? Has the guy been off the cover of both for more than an issue that would be a serious problem for him.

136

#128

He is following my orders and does not want to be banned.

137 136

well fair enough.

seems to me like he's a total obama lackey at this point, pushing Anita Dunn's position on the Maoist leanings and attackign Romney.

pathetic, and ko'z like.

138 It all sounds well and good for the anti-smoking zealots

I smoke.  I'm damn near 40 years old.  I know I shouldn't, yada yada.

Frau Morgenholz stays home with the kids, homeschools them, takes care of the farm, etc.  I make a living, sometimes more than less, sometimes less than more. Every morning, before I go to work, I stand in front of the rolling machine and roll a pack of smokes.  And every fucking time, without fail, I get more and more pissed at the Glorious Worker's Paradise we've built in this land, because smokes are $5.00 a pack here in Ohio. 

139 Well, if it makes Democrats feel better, Obama's not leading on Afghanistan, either.

On the other hand, he apparantly HAS decided on a strategy for waging war on Fox News and freedom of the press. Ain't that just GREAT?

140
I think a pack of smokes is $7.15 here in Assachusetts.

141 I think a pack of smokes is $7.15 here in Assachusetts.

Posted by: Tweet's brain at October 19, 2009 07:58 PM (EylPq)

Hijack an RJR truck and toss those fuckers in to Boston Harbor.  It can only improve the water quality.

142
When I was a kid, a pack was $1. And it seemed to stay at $1 for a long time.

Anyone know for how many years butts were a buck a pack?

143 Anyone know for how many years butts were a buck a pack?

No idea.  But having a cigarette is now a political act. 

144 Obama is not leading Health Care, he's not LEADING on anything.  Takes a leader to lead.....

145 Obama couldn't lead stink to shit.

146
Obama's no leader...

he's an agitator.

147 Smoked a cigar at the LA zoo last week.

I got looks from the hippies like I had thrown a baby in the tiger pen.

148

I quit 3 years ago and cigs were 25.00/carton at a discount store and 3.50/pack in the regular stores (SC). I understand it is a lot more now. We were supposed to be one of the cheapest states in the union.

 

In any case, if the smoking Nazis get their way, not only will you be paying huge taxes on the cigs but it will also cost you on your healthcare premiums. Same same for guns.

 

BTW, when I was a kid they were 25 cents a pack.

149 Obama couldn't lead stink to shit.

I wouldn't follow that cocksucker across the street for free beer.

150 #147  Sifty  Should have had a pipe.  makes you look like a intellectual professor. You would have had admiring glances.

151

I quit 3 years ago and cigs were 25.00/carton at a discount store and 3.50/pack in the regular stores (SC). I understand it is a lot more now. We were supposed to be one of the cheapest states in the union.

 

In any case, if the smoking Nazis get their way, not only will you be paying huge taxes on the cigs but it will also cost you on your healthcare premiums. Same same for guns.

 

BTW, when I was a kid they were 25 cents a pack.

Posted by: Vic at October 19, 2009 08:07 PM (CDUiN)

None dare call it tyranny.

152 #34 ^{We seem to be moving from a representative democracy to a dictatorship. We are following the Roman model. It is much easier for the leaders to lead if the people need not be consulted. It seems to me that we have a brief window to disabuse them of that notion.}

I'll start to worry when Obama conquers France then.

153 I got some kind of spam email which I dismissed at the time saying that there was a bill to make you list all of your firearms on a form which would be attached to your 1040 form.

I thought is was nuts. Now, not so much.

154 Oldcat

Na the French have more backbone than Obama. I concede the point.


Anyone just see Brit Hume on O'reilly? Brit laughing at the Obama administration=priceless.

155 Admiring glances from hippies I have always and can further do without.

I prefer their looks of panicked, confused rodent fear.

156 #100 Part of the problem is that everyone is here instead of on liberal blogs arguing against them and letting them know the consequences of their actions.

Being on a liberal blog is one of the consequences. No need for a sensible person to go there.

157 I'll never get the kos stains out of my IQ if I go there.

158 I'd go to a liberal blog, but I wouldn't know what to wear.  Drag?  Jackboots?  The mind boggles...

159 1502 pages , start reading ......... NOW !

160 They lost me at hello.

161 Life is too short to spend it trying to convert the deranged.

162 Bored? Can't sleep? Read the senate finance committee bill, 1500 pages!

http://finance.senate.gov/press/Bpress/2009press/prb101909.pdf

163 1502 pages , start reading ......... NOW !

Posted by: Bill D. Cat at October 19, 2009 08:16 PM (vKdhq)

Why?  It could be 1500 pages of farting noises.  It could be the Nuremberg Declaration repeated 720 times.  If my elected representative won't read it before it votes on it, why should I? 

It doesn't fucking matter.  It's a done deal.  I just wish they get the number of pages down for more comfortable entrance up MY FUCKING ASS.

164 ^1502 beotch .

165 Get ready for Funmegeddon!

166 If it was 1500 pages of farting noises , I would read it . That's how I roll .

167

Time to cash it in for the night, good night Morons, and have a pleasant tomorrow.

168

Bill how many hours do we have

169 A particularly infuriating O'Ego show tonight. That cocksucker Ellis Henican. 95lbs of smarmy puke stuffed in a suit with a shit-eating grim painted on the front.

170 All the time you need , as long as it's less than 72 hours .

171

@100 & @150

I often frequent a blog called "Angry Bear." It is a far left blog about Economics and Politics. A blog where Paul Krugman is King. If you are looking to see how bad the left is in this country is, go over there, and take a barf bag with you.

I try to battle these people, but I am so out numbered that not much can be accomplished. Typically, if you make sound arguements, and don't swear, you will not be banned. The host of the blog seems to be the best one of them all.

The reason I go there is becuase about two years ago when I discovered it, I also noticed these people must be connected or conversate with the innards of the Leftist Agenda, possibly with connections to the media. The four main posters are Professors of Economics. They exposed their hand long ago blatantly advocating a Socialist System and leftist idelogies such as Single Payer Systems, Bush Derangement Syndrome, and a strong religous belief in Man-Made Global Warming.

If you can stomach it, and looking for a good fight with a loyal LibTard, I suggest giving it go, I could use the help.  

 

172 Obama's Not Leading

In other news, water is wet.

173 169

I hate him, too.  Thank god for the remote.  I use the "last" button a lot.  O'Reilly can be a real bore.

174 1,502 pages long, at five minutes per page, that is about a month to read this bill. And if it passes, it doesn't take effect until 2013.

But, it needs a vote NOW!

Bend over, here it comes again.

175 Hey but Obama is busy fighting a war*.  Cut him some lack on the health care thing.


Granted Obama is worried about the war against Fox News first, but I'm sure he will get around to Iraq and Afghanistan when he wins the important one.

176 If you can stomach it, and looking for a good fight with a loyal LibTard, I suggest giving it go, I could use the help. 

I have absolutely no wish to engage, at all, with those who belittle my family, my faith, my nation, or myself.  Fucking none.  Good luck.

177 #154 I miss Brit Hume.  I still contend he was drunk after he announced Obama as the next president of the US though.  Other than that, there was no one that I remember that did the national news better than him.

178

@176,

Herr,

Hey, I understand. Sometimes I ask myself why I bother, but you know what they say..........."Gotta know your enemy."

The scariest part of all this that is happening to us, is that these people know exactly what they doing. This is the result of many years of planning. When confronted with the reality of how this is all going to turn out, they typically have a stock answer.

1.) This country is getting what it deserves.

2.) You so stupid that you don't know what is best for you or your country.

And it is as simple as that for them. CRAZY!

179 i would not be surprised if the majority was now in favor of the public option. why? because libs are really really good at getting out there with thier grassroots organizations. i have told many people um-teen times that if the dems are getting people to sign petitions and are out there talking to people week in and week out then we need to be doing the same. the last tea party protest of any note was in sept. the town halls are over. there is NOTHING being done by tea partiers as of late to get through to people. NOTHING. you certainly see organizing for america, and acron people out in parking lots, out in the community pushing flyers into people's hands and getting them to sign petitions. the right isn't working hard enough. period. they are not active enough. period. this is hard work! and if we aren't willing to work as hard as the dems then we deserve what we get. period.

we will have a very horrible healthcare bill. we will also have amnesty, cap and trade, AND yet another stimulus - which is really just a hand over of your grand children's money to people who happen to already have plenty of money, but happen to run lefty organizations, or "non profits." that's right boys and girls YOUR grand children's money is going to go right into the pockets of those who will ensure an easy victory for obama in 2012. and again, we deserve it because we aren't doing anything to stop it. there simply are not enough people on the right that are mad enough and mobilized enough to get out and protest, and organize in thier communities.

180 ...the NIH was “studying” and writing a paper on the ownership of guns and its impact on health. That study has been restarted with the CDC.

It doesn’t take a massive leap of logic to see where this BS is going when tied to healthscam 2009. The will issue health fines and increased premiums for gun owners until you can’t afford to own a gun unless you are rich (or an exempted politician).

This is exactly right. This is how your freedom will be eliminated. Not by anything so high-handed and obvious as a ban or a prohibition... they never actually "prohibited" smoking out-right, did they? No, they will control your life by making everything except approved gubmint greyness and servitude phenomenally expensive with taxation, or impossible to do on account of special licensing or permits.

Ant colony. We have arrived.

181

Dick Morris was just on Hannity. Seems the tubby one has been doing some polling lately and has found that seniors break 2 to 1 against deathcare; 30-60s are even steven; and the young morons who voted Zero in are 2 to 1 FOR it UNTIL they learn that they're going to have to pay between 8 and 10 percent of their annual salary for teh "free healthcare" or pay a fine.  Then they go against it 2 to 1. 

Morris says he raised $2.5 mil at his website and will soon be rolling out anti-deathcare commercials aimed at young people.  Might I suggest a remote ignition device for Mr. Morris? 

182 President Toonces is what we would call a Purell Pussy. Never wants to get his hands dirty.

183 Yeah, it's [probably] 'grey' propaganda.

Why [#1] ?  Consider the target audience; remember that the WaPo's primary targets are inside the Beltway.  Who's in the cross hairs: the 'Blue Dogs'.

Why [#2] ?  Ammo for the Moveon types; they'll take this article and forward it to every Blue Dog and Republican in a 'close' district they can.

The debate and public opinion for the bill is now in it's weakest phase: the 'closed door' sausage making phase.  The longer it takes for a 'finished' bill to appear, the more uneasy the public will get. 

Now that the insurance companies have turned against Teh One, every day there's no bill is one more day for a counter-campaign [in a vacuum] against 'the Plan'.

This poll is an attempt to staunch the steady bleeding of support, by wounds entirely self-inflicted.  This phony poll is a clear sign that the tide is running out.

All we need to do is keep up the counter-pressure.

184 Obama isn't leading, he's trolling for attention while the Obamacrats in Congress battle it out between themselves. 

185

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186 It's not fecklessness or inexperience or niceness. It's plausible deniability.

Actually, I think its his NPD.  Narcissists are NOT "leaders" in the sense of being able to roll up their sleeves and work something through the process.  They really believe having stated something it is the same as making it happen.

I've stated this before and I'll say it again - analysis of Obama's handwriting shows him to be all show and no go.  He has zero ability to follow through and force something to completion.

187
I've stated this before and I'll say it again - analysis of Obama's handwriting shows him to be all show and no go.  He has zero ability to follow through and force something to completion.

Posted by: Purple Avenger at October 19, 2009 09:37 PM (6QKcU)

PA -- I can't believe there's someone else on Ace who's into handwriting analysis.  I remember seeing O's signature discussed on F&F pre-election and found it interesting how he puts a strike through the "O."  The analyst said that's an unconscious swipe at his namesake -- or adopted father in this case.

188 Obama has done how many speeches outlining his "plan" and still ... "We still don't have a piece of paper that says what his plan is."

We live in the Era of Empty Political Rhetoric.

It's time to end this farce.

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190 Wow, I just can't argue with that spam.

191 Uh, okay.

As the Talk Radio Mafia stated clearly last week, if Americans knew what was in this bill(s), they would be 70% opposed.

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174 1,502 pages long, at five minutes per page, that is about a month to read this bill. And if it passes, it doesn't take effect until 2013.

Nahhhh...do the math.  It would take 5.21 days reading at a rate of 12 pages/hour.

A Senator's staff could divide the bill up and crank out a full reading in about a day. Two days if they stopped for annotations.

 

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Ace,
The reason all these inconsistencies in the polling confuse you is that you don't realize how truly ignorant and clueless many Americans are.
All the years of dumbing-down by our Bill Ayers-guided school curricula and our crass pop culture have had an effect.
Since the pollsters are taking more or less random samples of a mostly dumbed-down population, do not expect their answers to make sense.
Watch John Ziegler's Media Malpractice documentary--or even just watch/listen to Jay Leno/Sean Hannity do their "man on the street" interviews.....

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