1 It's not my fault you're unemployed and apparently have been so for several years, dickhead.

Take it up with your president.

2 Hollywood morality, you see.

3 That first comment had already been trollbusted, right?  He didn't really think that "good piece" meant anything other than "nice essay," right?

4 Well, when I get caught raping and sodomizing a 13 yr old girl, I'll go on the view and Whoopie will help get me off, again.

5

Well, when I get caught raping and sodomizing a 13 yr old girl, I'll go on the view and Whoopie will help get me off, again.

I see what you did there.

6 What crime?

7 Details, details.  What about The Narrative?!?!?!

8 Uh, I don't think that's the real hc.

Unless, of course, his hash has changed.

...or the comment has already been trollbusted.

9 No the first comment was genuine as far as I know.

I trollbusted it now to get at Honest Cloud's real source of bitterness, his chronic unemployment.

10 Copy cat.

11 But, but, but Debra Winger told me Polanski was a nice guy!

12 Didn’t they sort of "rape" the prisoners at abu Ghraib prison … and they took pictures, just like Roman Polanski did with the 13 year old. Now we have the proof that abu Ghraib prison really wasn’t that bad .. they were just trying to do their “Roman Polanski” thing.

13 and the other excuse used;," also seems to believe that a child with an unpleasant stage mother could not possibly have been raped: "The 13-year old model 'seduced' by Polanski had been thrust onto him by her mother, who wanted her in the movies." Oh, well, then! If her mom put her into that situation, that makes it much better! Shore continues: "The girl was just a few weeks short of her 14th birthday, which was the age of consent in California. (It's probably 13 by now!) Polanski was demonized by the press, convicted, and managed to flee, fearing a heavy sentence."

Wow, OK, let's break that down. First, as blogger Jeff Fecke says, "Fun fact: the age of consent in 1977 in California was 16

stunningly disgusting, I mean really does this mean a mother can sell her daughter for sex and it would be OK for the mother and the rapist, as long as the daughter is 13+ some to 18? wth is the matter with them.

and thank you Kate Harding for pointing out the disgusting lack of values , with these apologists!

14

But isn't it true that sodomizing a thirteen year old is only a reprehensible and criminal act....in a case involving a Catholic priest?

 

 

15 Genuine, huh?  Lord Obama have mercy!

16 This is what really gets you about liberal's defense of Polanski.
Even now, after 30 years, I would bet money the guy gets 6 months to a year in club fed if he returns. With good behavior he's out in time for spring time in Paris, plus he gets his American Visa renewed and can get one more big cash in from Hollywood before he croaks while screwing his 15 year old mistress.

17 A 13 yr old girl for a 44 yr old guy? Yeah, we can do that...

18 This is going to touch a nerve with clod. The real clod. He was defending the hell out of Roman in the last Polanski thread. Of course clod is our resident Gary Glitter so he's just looking out for his own.

19 Wow, Salon actually called it rape rape. I'm glad our media still has some integrity.

20 How about we just send his sack back to California to rot in prison and the rest of him can stay in Europe.

21 I take it this girl didn't have a father in her life or if she did he wasn't much of a man.

22 The 13 yr old girl... from El Salvadore I guess?

23 I see no problem with what he did.

24 Only you can save child rapists from justice.  Take the pledge.  Together.

25 Seriously.  I wrote a similar piece last night when they were interviewing a jackass who supported him.

This combined with instant fanboys of Michael Jackson makes me want to start choking people out.

Q: I love his music/films so who cares what he did to children?
A: I choke you now.

26 And to think, some thought the Left's (and virtually every Dem in Congress) defense of ACORN (underage prostitutes) was just a knee jerk reaction.  Well yea, there's that too.  But the Left really has no problem with this - that's why they support abortion w/o parental consent or notification for 12 yr olds.  Whoopi - this isn't rape rape.  WTF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

27

How old is Opies oldest daughter?  12 I believe.

Here is a test for liberals.

If, NEXT YEAR, a 45 year old man were to get Malia Obama drunk give her pills and had sex with her, then, anally sodomized her, then ran from justice to Europe and an opulent life style, including Hollywierd honors.

 

What should his punishment be?.

28
I wish Hollywood would explain the diference between 'rape' and 'RAPE-rape', the whole thing is very confusing.

29 Even now, after 30 years, I would bet money the guy gets 6 months to a year in club fed if he returns. With good behavior he's out in time for spring time in Paris, plus he gets his American Visa renewed and can get one more big cash in from Hollywood before he croaks while screwing his 15 year old mistress.

I bet he gets the book thrown at him because he was a fugitive for 30 years and he becomes Hollywood's favorite cause c�l�bre until he dies from assrape in 2013.

30 "sodomization"?

Is that a real word?

31

Let's remember another thing, while we're at it: Rape isn't a crime against a person -- well, it is, yeah, obviously -- but legally, it's a crime against the state. It's not like the now-grown-up-13-year-old girl has a lawsuit that she can drop if she wants. Her wishes don't matter, because legally, she's not the entity who was wronged. It was the state.

And if the state still says this rotten bastard should spend some time in a harsh prison enviroment, then good for the state.

32

 He was defending the hell out of Roman in the last Polanski thread.

So this is what our country is coming to. We have people actually defending the rape of a 13 year old girl by a 40+ year old man. My God, that's just sick. Well, the only consolation will be when the judge gives him 10 years for the rape and another 10 for felony flight. 

33 THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY .IS COMING .WITH .VENGENGES

There are pills for that.

34 Hell's bells. If waiting a sufficient amount of time is all it takes to be exonerated, or let off the hook, for a crime...let's just let everyone who has been imprisoned for 30 years OUT. Same thing.

These disgusting Hollywood libs rally to this pervert's side for what reason again? Because he's one of them? And that's supposed to negate the crime. Gawd, how they make me sick.

35

Look.  I'm not big on this idea that the longer the sentence necessarily equate to the quality of justice.

I would think a week with the biggest, meanest maximum security inmate with a proclivity for violent sodomy would be appropriate justice in this case.

Hey.  But that's me.  I'm a forgive and forget type of guy. 

36 I don't understand why non SoCons would care. What does this have to do with taxes?

37
I think we all need to realize this is not a problem with the far left.

Watch the ACORN tapes again if you need a refresher course.


The far left is misguided,  sure.  And it's also evil.

38 honest cloud at September 29, 2009 02:15 PM (EjZyj)

The implication being, that as a left winger, you don't care about a guy drugging and sodomizing children?

39 ACE,
you seem to be under mistaken impression that left cares about morals or right or wrong. Have you not seen how ACORN's advice on establishing child sex slave brothels have been reinterpreted as "insignificant, distracting and smearing". Or the blog entry that you posted the other day where it was posted that Afghan's situation was elevated just for rhetoric and political "machoism". Not one commenter seemed to be bothered by it. The scum with the views like that believes nothing, value nothing but itself. Is it really surprising that they are not defending a pedophile? Will you equally be surprised when tomorrow these subhumans will advocate sharia with its prepubescent pedophile marriage and bacha bazi pederast culture? Stretch of imagination? Well Bambi already appointed a (gay?) pedophile as safe schools czar.

Please don't misunderstand me. We need analysis like yours to expose them, but what's more is we need to start thinking, which is past due, what do we do this degenerate philosophy.

40 Same people who were defending Letterman regarding his comments about Palin's 14 year old daughter.

41

and since when does NO, mean it's really Yes when they Like the rapist?

hell where is N.O.W? have they said anything at all NOW and Violence Against Women

well no i don't see anything on it

42

The Fearless Vampire Killers (starring Sharon Tate) was a really strange movie. Worth watching.

43 I bet he gets the book thrown at him because he was a fugitive for 30 years and he becomes Hollywood's favorite cause c�l�bre until he dies from assrape in 2013.

Posted by: tachyonshuggy at September 29, 2009 02:13 PM (TXp3z)

6 months to a year is getting the book thrown at you in California. Don't forget he's a first time offender according to the law. Plus he's a fine upstanding member of the community, of Hollywood anyway.

44 >>I don't understand why non SoCons would care. What does this have to do with taxes?

Hey, tell you what: You tell me you don't want me in the coalition and I'll leave and start voting Democratic and boosting them with the blog, okay?

You have a fucking 25% slice of the electorate and all you can think of is purging the people who vote with you because they don't think exactly like you do.

Idiot.

45 Polanski should be jailed and put in the general population of the worse prison in America for the rest of his days, end of story!!

46 Family Guy got this story pretty close.

*neighbor boy tied up in Griffin basement with Stewie interrogating him about his missing tricycle*

Lois walks in.

Lois: What are you doing?

Stewie: Playing house.

*Lois stares*

Stewie: Roman Polanski's house.

47 Where's the proof douchenozzle? Don't you have some brown skinned person to harass and deny healthcare?

Unfortunately no, we have an imbecile like you, and I hope you suffer the rest of your life with nothing!

48 I think the only acceptable sentence is execution.

49 I don't understand why non SoCons would care. What does this have to do with taxes?

So "non SoCons" don't care about justice?

50 honest cloud at September 29, 2009 02:18 PM (EjZyj)

Are you normally off the deep end or is today special?

51 The only good movie Polanski made was Chinatown.  If you will recall John Huston's character had an incestuous relationship with his daughter, Faye Dunaway's character.  Roman was just living his art.

52 "Now, we simply proceed to sentencing him for drugging, raping, and sodomizing a 13-year-old child, as should have been done 32 years ago, rather than  and now letting him vamp off to Europe to direct a movie", a gritty realistic prison film, about an old fugitive from justice on a child-rape charge and his prison experiences.

Doubtless it will be a dramatic masterpiece of suspense and realistic terror, something that makes Rosemary's Baby look like a Disney flick.

Fool. Should've done your time decades ago, when you were stronger.  Of course, you were prettier then, so maybe I'm wrong.

53
Ace,  is it just me or is the whole honest cloud thing getting old?

Really old.

54 58,

Hahahaha, how about me breaking your hip?

55

non socons don't care about children that get damaged , or hurt>? what we don't have children?

is this a trick ?

56

6 Well, when I get caught raping and sodomizing a 13 yr old girl, I'll go on the view and Whoopie will help get me off, again.

I realize this has already been commented on, but I do want to say that if your taste is 13 year old girls, Whoopi wouldn't even come close to getting you off.  On the other hand, Whoopi didn't elaborate on what her definition of "rape rape" is, but plying with drugs and/or alcohol usually meets most peoples' definition.  Also not taking "no" for an answer.  Isn't that what Gloria Steinem said about Bill the alleycat and Kathleen Willey, "She said no and he stopped, no harm, no foul"

And one more time, he would be going to jail as a 76 year old man.  Well, I'd like to have seen him do it much sooner, but it's not my fault he didn't.

57

In many parts of the world girl's dad and/or uncles would have flown to europe conducted a P.E. class and free surgery for Roman.

58 Hey, tell you what: You tell me you don't want me in the coalition and I'll leave and start voting Democratic and boosting them with the blog, okay?
What a weird response. My point has always been to throw no one out as long as they are aiming the same direction. Defensive much?

59 Hahahaha, how about me breaking your hip?

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at September 29, 2009 02:24 PM (1siCY)

Take me, Grunt!

60 A 13 year-old girl? Eww, yucky!

61 here is an incomplete list of messages being sent.
1. The crime is not so severe that time can't make it go away.
2. Famous people get to break the laws as long as their art is "important."
3. Running is a good way to avoid jail.
4. Raping a 13 year old is not that big a deal.
5. "Artistic" people have an excuse because they are "different."

Gawsh- imagine if he had done this to a dog.  They would be calling for his head.

62

wouldn't any caring person of any age care about someone getting hurt? no-matter your political party? 

, it must be a trick,  ok that question is making me crazy.

63 "I would think a week with the biggest, meanest maximum security inmate with a proclivity for violent sodomy would be appropriate justice in this case."

I tend to agree. But his visa must not be reinstated.

64 >>>> 1. it was consensual sex. no force was used.

Hey dipshit, go read the trial transcripts before you embarrass yourself even more.

65 Whoopi Goldberg says that drugging and sodomizing a 13 year old girl isn't really "rape rape."

So, if you're looking for a chaperone for a middle school dance, I think you might not want to call Whoopi Goldberg.

66 No, I'm not defensive, I'm just sick of hectoring douchebags like you, who never shut the fuck up about their strong belief that I am not quite right with Jesus, or at least not sufficiently so.

67

it is a crime in the US, so Polanski should serve some time. But I don't think this is like some maniac raping a young girl.

um?

68 1. it was consensual sex. no force was used.

She was drugged. And knocked out. The victim called it rape.

2. 13 is actually legal in some societies.

Not in this one. Stoning people for having sex is legal in some societies too, does that make it okay here?

The lengths some of you people go thru to defend evil just amazes me.

69 Another rule:

If you're white and wealthy, it's not rape.

70 it is a crime in the US, so Polanski should serve some time. But I don't think this is like some maniac raping a young girl.

Posted by: palin steele (the only non-partisan on AoSHQ) at September 29, 2009 02:25 PM (VDj74)

you are a horrible person.

71 Gawsh- imagine if he had done this to a dog come out against teh ghey marriage   They would be calling for his head.

FIFY

72

IS palin steele retarded?

She said no repeatedly. She did not want the sex and expressed it.

 

He deliberately gave her drugs and booze so she couldn't fight back.

He forced both vaginal and anal sex on her.

 

Rapist. Case closed.

73 At the end of the day: He forcibly (or at least statutorily) raped and sodomized a 13-year-old girl

If it was established that he drugged her, isn't it automatically "force?"  Or is there some other term for it - confinement, perhaps?  Anyway, it seems to me it's more than statutory. 

It's ironic that the same libs that are so concerned about the torture of terrorists are not at all concerned about what Polanski did, which amounts to torture by any definition I take seriously. 

74 sock-puppet off!

75

 1. it was consensual sex. no force was used.

She said no.  Repeatedly.  Just because you can't fathom someone saying "No" to having an old man's cock stuck in their ass, doesn't mean she consented. 

2. 13 is actually legal in some societies.

It's illegal in CA, where and when it happened.

Must you simply argue with everything posted here, dum dum?

76 It wasn't rape, he was just filling her with Art.

77 66,

Y'know dumdum it's kind of scary how you traitorous liberals always take up for the most disgusting, perverted individuals that ever lived, guess that's your mo as you have proven many times, but you will beswept out with the trash too!

78 Aww... Jonathan E is passive-aggressive.

That's cute.

79 OK, I'm lazy, but could someone PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE find what the liberal gasbags, who are now defending Polanski, said about the Duke lacrosse players? We'll all thank you for it!

80

@77

that's really well spelled. Hey, is that a puppet?

81 what do we do this degenerate philosophy

It defeats itself.  It's like a rat.  You know they are there, but you just don't see or find them unless you're looking for them.

Watch Breitbart talking to Peter Robinson from May of this year.  Breitbart is asked how he came to design and work for Arianna Huffington and how that work peaked and ended with huffingtonpost.com.  Breitbart hints that it was his plan all along.  Give celebrities the microphone and allow them to destroy their own credibility.

They will purge themselves.

ACORN will follow a similar tract.  The leadership is corrupt, but the people that follow them around have to start asking questions about how long the leadership lead them into the desert.  In the real world you run out of other people's money.  In the ACORN world their leadership is taking them far from a supply of fresh water.

82 Posted by: palin steele (the only non-partisan on AoSHQ) at September 29, 2009 02:31 PM (VDj74)

You just made my point, you realize this, don't you?

83 1. it was consensual sex. no force was used.

Drugs? Booze? No force was needed and according to the victim it was never consensual.


2. 13 is actually legal in some societies.

Who gives a shit about some societies? He didn't rape anyone in some societies he raped her in California.

 
it is a crime in the US, so Polanski should serve some time. But I don't think this is like some maniac raping a young girl.

Posted by: palin steele (the only non-partisan on AoSHQ) at September 29, 2009 02:25 PM (VDj74)

Oh is that what "rape-rape" is? When the rapist is a maniac about it? As long as he's calm it's just statutory rape?

Anything you say Whoopi, idiot.

84 Y-Not,

My point is that whether it's forcible or "merely" statutory it's still an egregious crime.

One is more egregious, obviously. But both are heinous.

Since there was never a trial -- Polanski copped a (generous) plea to a lesser charge -- you can't say, with a jury to back you up, that it was forcible rape.

So I'm hedging. I think it was rape. Alas, no jury decision, no testing of facts. But we do know he pled guilty to unlawful sex with a minor.

85 THERE IS NO REASON TO DEFEND POLANSKI. Sick bastard

86

jeezus,  this sucks.

87 The French would let him walk for rape, and yet look into what Frank Abagnale has to say about the French Penal System in his book Catch Me If You Can (let alone Papillon!).  How screwed up are the French?

88

It's kind of odd to think that before this past week or two, pretty much the only thing I knew about John Phillips was that Polanski came at him in a rage thinking that he was the one who killed Sharon Tate out of revenge, after Polanski slept with his wife Michelle just before the murders.  Geez, I can't believe how tame that gossip seems now.

(And of course Tate's real killer, Susan Atkins, just died, too.)   

89 my point is, people have different standards.

Posted by: palin steele (the only non-partisan on AoSHQ) at September 29, 2009 02:31 PM (VDj74)

I'm glad we are clear that your standards do not preclude a guy drugging and raping children. I think that says quite a bit about you.

90 92 OK, I'm lazy, but could someone PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE find what the liberal gasbags, who are now defending Polanski, said about the Duke lacrosse players?

I don't know what she said initially, but Whoopi did actually demand that Sharpton apologize to the Duke lacrosse players. 

Not that that excuses in any way what she's saying about this case. 

91 Ace, I love your idea about letting him out of the flight charges...it negates the argument that he "had" to flee because of the judge's actions.  (I know, not legally possible, but let's pretend here).  Now let him stand for the original charges and take his medicine.  In prison.  Anally.  Forcibly.  Repeatedly. 

92 Anyone buying the Swiss police story?  Em, he flew in Zurich.  We knew about it.  He was wanted.  So we picked him up?

Tell me this is the Swiss trying to get Hollywood Swiss bank account holders to turn themselves in to the IRS.

93 I hate to be a wet towel but...

Personally, I think Polanski should pay (and I don't care that Chinatown was an awesome movie) but the most (only?) important person involved is the woman who was his victim that night, who is asking that the case be dismissed. If that's her wish I think we all ought to respect that, even though we disagree with it.

The bigger issue here, I think, is extradition laws and treaties.

94 68,

I realize it will never happen, but you would be begging for me to stop if it ever did sissy!!!!!

95 Posted by: ace at September 29, 2009 02:33 PM

Gotcha.  Thx.

96
Where is Gloria Steinem on all this?

"He's on our team so leave him alone" again?

That's not misguided,  it's evil.  They are scum.  They hate conservatives more than they want any kind of justice.  Every day they wake up looking for a way to make conservatives angry.  No matter what they have to support or ignore they will do anything that they believe will anger conservatives.  Whether it's supporting child rape or prostitution.  Freeing convicted cop killers.  Ignoring murderous dictators' past crimes or future plans.  Go against conservatives every day and in every way.  No matter where that leads.

97

is this a trick ?

Posted by: willow at September 29, 2009 02:25 PM (GkYyh)

Could be shades of grey. People might just be SoCons without realizing it. What morals does one adopt? Where did they come from?

98 Why debate what does or doesn't constitute rape? Remember, Polanski pled guilty. The trial is over. It's done.

99 @81 or that.  Either one.  I was thinking of Vick.  The only thing that could make these f#$%^#$%^ lunatics defend him even more is if it was a boy.

100

I don't understand why non SoCons would care. What does this have to do with taxes?

You, sir, are a douchebag.

101 Jeebus H. Christ.  Dum Dum, you've outdone yourself again!  How do you manage it?  You're better than the White Queen thinking 6 impossible things before breakfast, because you not only do that, you post your impossibly stupidass musings out where everyone can see!   As a Harvard grad, I'm sure you were introduced to the theory that "no means no," some time along the torturous route of your alleged education, but here you are, being even more of a twatwad than you ever have been before.  I stand in awe of you.  Yes, I am actually standing up because you have surpassed the bounds of complete dumbassery and I am in total and complete awe of you.

102 Well, gee, when you put it that way...

103

@41 Johnathan: 

Libertarians can be on the right side of this issue.  Polanski violated that girls rights and the law should deal him harsh punishment.    

 

104 116 fact is, a lot of girls willingly consent to sex

I believe the whole point is that a 13 year old cannot consent, nor can a person who as has been drugged.

105

my point is, people have different standards.

And my standards are that anyone who sees no harm in drugging and raping a 13-year-old girl is a pathetic, digusting, worthless piece of shit who deserves to be in jail. 

And hey, whaddya know?  The state of California agrees with me!

Serioulsy, dum dum, why do you bother?  Do you take some perverse pleasure in all the abuse?  Do you pull a piece of twine tighter and tighter around your tiny little micro-dick when you read the repsonses you recieve?

 

 

 

106 You're telling me she had a qualude and champaigne and still said no? that's an inconsistent story. either she wasn't drugged or she didn't say no.

Posted by: palin steele (the only non-partisan on AoSHQ) at September 29, 2009 02:34 PM (VDj74)

The drugs and booze made her less able to resist, physically and mentally, it didn't turn her into a mute. She stated she said no, repeatedly. So she was drugged and she said no. Dummy.

107 Dumdum is actually defending raping and sodomizing a 13 year old girl?

I guess when you're exclusively experienced with inflatable women, the idea of one saying no is just impossible to cogitate.

108

how come these lying hoes aren't stigmatized and put in jail? their crime is just as serious as rape.

You've actually said something I agree with for once.  Except you forgot about the part where he pled guilty. 

So nice try but you're still an idiot.

109 Unless his hash has changed, this is HC's real hash.

honest cloud  (4dCEv)

Why you let crap like this stand Ace, is beyond me:

1. it was consensual sex. no force was used.

2. 13 is actually legal in some societies.

it is a crime in the US, so Polanski should serve some time. But I don't think this is like some maniac raping a young girl.

Posted by: palin steele (the only non-partisan on AoSHQ) at September 29, 2009 02:25 PM (VDj74) 

Trolls are ruining this site.

110 important person involved is the woman who was his victim that night, who is asking that the case be dismissed. If that's her wish I think we all ought to respect that, even though we disagree with it.

If she wanted him to die, that would not be part of the punishment equation. It's not how the system works. Victims don't define how the criminal is punished or not punished.

111
Seriously Ace,  when do you take your megaphone away from the scum.

112

You're telling me she had a qualude and champaigne and still said no? that's an inconsistent story. either she wasn't drugged or she didn't say no.

First: it's "Quaalude" and "Champagne" dumbass

Secondly: The two aren't mutually exclusive. You can be wasted and still saying no but can't do anything to stop it. How stupid are you?

113 Jack Nicholson.

114 Trolls' damage would be limited if some of you weren't insistent on responding to every single stupid thing they say.

115 Two different situations, Dum Dum.  Man, the only thing that could open your mind is a backhoe.

116 Ace,

I can't wrap my head around why you let perverts like dumdum and HC post here, no amount of blue language from morons is worse then their thoughts in type!

117 Trolls are ruining this site.

Sock puppeting -really- makes it hard to tell real comments from fake ones. And that's sad, cuz you really could imagine the actual person posting the fake comments sometimes.

118 @likeatimebomb, as someone here already pointed out, this was/is a crime against the state, not a civil matter.  The  victim does not have a legal say in whether it is prosecuted or not.  And while I can understand that she wishes to put that part of her life behind her, this is not about her.  It is about the crime(s) Polanski committed. 

119 >>>Could be shades of grey. People might just be SoCons without realizing it. What morals does one adopt? Where did they come from?

From your mother, when I was fucking her up her squeakhole, dickhead.

Next question?

120

If you didn't realize that LIBTARDS have no moral values.

You realize it after this thread.

121 BECAUSE I CAN'T BAN PEOPLE

122 how come these lying hoes aren't stigmatized and put in jail? their crime is just as serious as rape.

The falsely accused have to file a complaint.  I'm guessing they take the high road and give the accuser a break.  She'll carry around the phony claims her whole life.  It's enough punishment.

Even the prosecutors drop it despite the fact that such claims would clearly constitute lying to law enforcement officers.  But if there is no crime can you lie to investigators about the details of no crime?

123

Tami

he's evil.

124 @126 Tami

Trolls are ruining this site.

No--they're actually "brainwashing" us in a really good sense.  They have torn the scales from my eyes.

I used to think the left were just misguided or stupid, but thanks to these trolls, I now see them for what they truly are:  evil, subhuman vermin.

125 138 BECAUSE I CAN'T BAN PEOPLE

Then make their comment section blank every time they post ANYTHING!

126 You're telling me she had a qualude and champaigne and still said no? that's an inconsistent story. either she wasn't drugged or she didn't say no. 

Posted by: palin steele (the only non-partisan on AoSHQ) at September 29, 2009 02:34 PM (VDj74)

That's your iron clad defense asshole?  So all it takes is getting the drugs and alcohol into them and then your home free because at that point any "no" response could not be taken seriously right.

Your a piece of shit. 

 

127

And now for the rest of the story ......

Salon's  in trouble now.  Protesters, led by one of their biggest special interest groups, sheep, are sore from the Left's stimulus package, and would like a little relief/down time.  They want rape (not rape rape) to be recognized as a generally acceptable past time of the "civilized" Left. 

In breaking news, suits have been filed in federal court, asking for statuatory relief from one, Abe Haze. 

128

Dum Dum scrawled:  "Have you EVER watched Japanese porn? throughout intercourse, the girl constantly whines "yamate" which means "stop", yet she actually wants the intercourse to continue.

Did I just blow your mind?"

 No, stupid thing, you did not blow my mind.  There is a DIFFERENCE between porn and real life.  You see, porn, especially Japanese porn, is not real.  There are very few tentacles involved in sex in real life.  Second, you are the stupidest creature posting here, and that includes honest cloud, who is so incredibly stupid he makes the fillings in my teeth ache and I now have to scroll past his comments or I can't eat my supper.  You, Dum Dum, are the ne plus ultra, the creme de la creme, the supreme pinnacle of stupid, and you should not be proud of that.

129 Whoopie Goldberg is only defending him because he's a fellow Joo.

130 ok if they can't be banned can all of us just put that guy on mental ignore indefinately?

131
133 Ace,

I can't wrap my head around why you let perverts like dumdum and HC post here, no amount of blue language from morons is worse then their thoughts in type!

Amen.  This crap is really old.  I can see having a half way intelligent troll with some actual ideas about a topic but this is just contrarian garbage.

I'm taking a break.  Later.

132 Posted by: palin steele (the only non-partisan on AoSHQ) at September 29, 2009 02:47 PM (VDj74)

What's your point? Polanski admitted to raping the girl. Where is your confusion?

133

Butt-fucking children is wrong?  Who knew?!?!?!

Has anyone advised Andrew Sullivan?

134 If that's her wish I think we all ought to respect that, even though we disagree with it.

Then rich people can pay to have the crime go away like Kennedy. That isn't justice and its not fair. Don't you care about "fair" the most?

135 There are very few tentacles involved in sex in real life.

ushie at September 29, 2009 02:47 PM (1kwr2)

Speak for yourself.

136 Whoopie Goldberg is only defending him because he's a fellow Joo.

I thought it was because he was black.

137 BECAUSE I CAN'T BAN PEOPLE

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2009 02:44 PM (d6tLI)

Wait...Didn't you post a little while ago about how some IP addresses were accidentally banned and you were trying to work it out? 

138 Posted by: palin steele (the only non-partisan on AoSHQ) at September 29, 2009 02:49 PM (VDj74)

Yeah. When the guy admits to raping the girl and then flees the country to avoid punishment. I can see where his guilt or innocence can be indeterminate.

139 Skimming through California case law, the age of consent has been 18 years since the 1930s - probably longer .

140 How long do you think it will take some bubba to get at Roman if he does end up serving time?

I'd say within the week.

141

It was the 70s. They still knew butt-f*cking children was wrong. Now, not so much.

Poor NAMBLA, all this attention has to have all the pervs upset.

142 Ace,

It's your house, but I think I speak for the majority here that these two assholes dumdum and HC should not be able to spew their liberal BS here!

143 I'm only responding to Dum Dum today because I'm in a horrible mood and I need a cat toy to bat around.  Which is all that it's good for, anyway.

144

I hope you guys realize  rape is not a black-white issue. Say you're at a bar, and you and a chick both drink throughout the night.

This one is, idiot. She was 13 years old. She cannot say yes. Secondly, how the hell is he gonna pick up a 13 year old in a bar? Where do people like you come from?

145 @159 runninrebel

How long do you think it will take some bubba to get at Roman if he does end up serving time?

I'd say within the week.

When he does, we need to establish a defense fund for that bubba.

146

If that's her wish I think we all ought to respect that, even though we disagree with it.

Her wish is irrelevant. He already pled guilty. He fled to avoid sentencing.

147 hell where is N.O.W?

I expect they'll be kicking Kate out for writing the Salon piece.

148 Roman Polanski not only pled guilty, he was convicted. He is guilty, and until his sentence is served, he is a worse criminal than ever, getting away.

"Oh, Here's My Proposal: ...we give Polanski a pass on any additional charges he might get for being a fugitive from justice."--Ace

a pass on any additional charges... "The Rangel Rule, as with Geithner, regardless of what one is guilty of, if you're "important" no law applies to you, no penalties are ever levied regardless of how many times you repeatedly break a law. Given Polanski's example, no matter how long one evades justice, forget and forgive.

The victim, grown and wanting it all behind her where she's been able to put it so far as she can, has no more legal say now in whether he should serve his sentence as she had when the sentence was delivered by the court. She has the right to express herself prior to sentencing. But can you imagine victims being given the legal right/responsibility to sentence or forgive sentencing? More often than not, there'd be guilty heads rolling without the option to request a retrial.

149

Libtards have always postured themselves as morally superior.

NOTHING could be further from the truth.  They support every kind of filth known to man.

 

Libtards tell us Muhammads sexual proclivities.

150 omfg.

151 maverick muse,

I get the strong feeling that you simply do not read what I write, so please don't address further comments to me.

Since you do not do me the courtesy of reading my words before objecting, I do not see why I should be burdened having to read your words, either.

152 Wait, this article appeared where? In Salon?

153 All right, whatever, trollbusting isn't working.

Trollbusters, rather than changing the words of HC's and now Palin Steele's posts, can we just delete them?

I know I have that authorization... do you guys? If you can edit I assume you can delete.

So we'll just start deleting them.

It would HELP if some of you weren't DETERMINED to respond to EACH AND EVERY comment these guys make.

154 Re: Banning HC and Palin Steele

I'm not big on banning wholesale. I think it has more to do with the individual troll's cycle of usefulness. These two played the role of idiot foil for a while, but now they've run out of standard stupid and are trying to improvise stupid. And they're both too stupid to pull that off.

They've gone full retard. They've jumped the shark.

155 Meh.  I like to use trolls as punching bags on occasion.  Lately, HC and PS have been so over-the-top that it should be impossible to take them at all seriously except as objects of your best creative writing beat down.  Otherwise, just scroll right on by.

156 It would HELP if some of you weren't DETERMINED to respond to EACH AND EVERY comment these guys make.

I agree and I'll stop and I suggest everyone else does, but delete them for sure, they'll go away sooner or later once they see they have no platform.

157

I don't understand why non SoCons would care. What does this have to do with taxes?

Because they pay taxes to law enforcement with the expectation that they will prevent their daughters from being raped, or at least make an example out of people who do.

Don't want to imprison rapists? Fine. I want a 33% tax cut with which to purchase a gun, and a concealed carry permit.

158

I see that some people cannot handle any differing views on the matter.

Yes. Some of us are pretty inflexible on the subject of raping children.  Even those of us who aren't card carrying members of the SoCon fringe.

See?  That was like a two-fer!

159

Ace @75. It has been my experience over the years that even non-belivers have enough moral compass to recognize malum in se.

Don't let folks like that get you down.

160

So we'll just start deleting them.

Already deleting them in my mind.

Not to be a fly, but when comments reference other comments by number, will this be affected?

161 What a weird response. My point has always been to throw no one out as long as they are aiming the same direction. Defensive much?

Posted by: Johnathan E.

I'm fairly confident that you're not aiming in the same direction as the rest of us.

162

As someone else pointed out, if this were Father Roman Polanski of the Archdiocese of say, Boston, who had done this, you can bet the reaction from liberals everywhere would be exactly the opposite -- though just as raucous.

163

I think the T.B. works great.  My favorite was when Dum Dum proudly proclaimed that he had made a dildo out of Leggos.  heh

But I'm sure it must be tedious and tiresome.

164

Obama's Justice Department blocks the deportation in 3, 2, 1...

165

I fear for a civilization that contains people who believe drugging a 13 year old and vaginally and anally raping him/her against his/her will is OK. And those people who come to the defense of the pervert who did it are morally bankrupt.

We are Sodom and Gomorrah. We are Rome.

166

Re: Banning HC and Palin Steele

Ace lacks the technical skillz to go all Charles Johnson/NSA-roving-wiretap on their asses.

They're not even HC and Palin Steele! Morons. 3/4 of their posts are sockpuppets and you're all going ban happy. You dweebs are gonna accidentally ban Wiserbud or someone. (Or maybe even someone).

The people who shout 'don't feed the trolls' are the ones feeding the trolls.

We never had to go around banning 99.9% of our trolls (except a few who were exceptionally lewd) before we had churchladies complaining about hooker titles and trying to post "First!", I don't see anything's changed now.

It don't work anyway. Erg has been banned like 57 times. But we deal with him just fine. Nobody ever had to ban most of the ones who are long gone now.

167 "FYM,WIWFHUHS,D. NQ", or "From your mother, when I was fucking her up her squeakhole, dickhead.  Next question?", is nice, but I still prefer "FYNQ."

168

Lately, HC and PS have been so over-the-top that it should be impossible to take them at all seriously except as objects of your best creative writing beat down.

Yes... and 95% of that "over-the-top" to which you are referring, I'm relatively certain is sockpuppetry and troll-busting comment changing.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

But I don't think the real HC actually ran around all week long talking about his underage male immigrant prostitute ring.

169

I know I've been guilty of sockpuppeting those two plagues on humanity, but I'll swear it off. From now on there's not a cloud in the sky, or a dum-dum in the candy dish.

Just keep zipping their comments, though; I tempt easily.

170 I mean really does this mean a mother can sell her daughter for sex and it would be OK for the mother and the rapist, as long as the daughter is 13+ some to 18? wth is the matter with them.

Hey, it's the ACORN way. But they might suggest that you use imported slaves instead of family members.

171

Ace @ 153

Thank you!  I like coming here.  I like reading the posts.  But I'm morning-sick enough without having to stomach those two pieces of trash.  Thanks for bringing the hammer down.

172 I'm with Tami, Dang and others:  HC and PS should be outta here. Their comments are reprehensible, indefensible and downright disgusting.

That they are allowed to spew forth this vile nonsense is a detriment to this site.  Regardless if they actually represent real people, or are just fabrications designed to provoke, they have outlived their usefulness.

 I'm sick of them.

173

74 sock-puppet off!

Oh, I dunno, I'm "bored silly" of dum-dum's obtuseness myself.

As for Polanski, defending him is just gross, like defending Charles Manson. A little part of me feels like summoning the aliens from ID4 when I read what humans can be capable of.

174 Darth, i'm so blown away by this topic and responses, i have nothing left to say.

175

Anyway if you want trolls to bash I can always come up with something.

I used to be a lizard, remember.

And I'm not obnoxious all the time.

176 What do you think the odds are we can get Polanski to be Charlie Manson's cellmate?

177 I don't post a lot of comments, but I do read them. That said, Palin Steele or whatever is an obvious troll who adds nothing to the discussion.

NEEDS MOAR GLOBAL PERMABAN

178 lorien 117, dum-dum was always easy to spot because s/he had VD. I mean, in his/her IP hash. That I know of.

179 But I'm morning-sick enough without having to stomach those two pieces of trash.

Congrats, Mouse!

180

Trolls are ruining this site.

.....

 

..........

Granted, this is a rather simple point of basic human decency.

But you have 150 commentors agreeing with you, and the TWO that are fruit loops are cannot be tolerated and are ruining the whole site?

I just do not like this as a precedent.

181

I like coming here.  I like reading the posts.  But I'm morning-sick enough without having to stomach those two pieces of trash.  Thanks for bringing the hammer down

mazel tov ,healthy and wise and stuff.

182 willow,

When it comes to the trolls, keep in mind two things:

1. the best filters are betwixt your ears. Use them, as it will lower your blood pressure to an acceptible level.

2. if you feed the troll, you get to take s/he/it home.

That is all. Carry on.

183 Entropy,

I don't think the HC on this thread is the real HC...unless he's changed his hash and his typical style of writing.

palin steele (the only non-partisan on AoSHQ) at September 29, 2009 02:25 PM (VDj74)

That is the real palin steele.  He's beyond redeemable and nothing anyone says to any of the trolls changes the way they think.  NOTHING.

Normally I wouldn't care.  But lately thread after thread becomes their attention whoring and responses to their idiotic postings (and then comes the sockpuppeting of them...which is, sometimes, funny).  I understand it's hard not to respond to them but then it just becomes a thread about them.  What's the point?  I can go to DU or KOS if I wanted to read that crap repeatedly.

184 Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at September 29, 2009 03:04 PM

Agreed, hard to stomach poison that's best not served. Responsible adults don't leave poison down for the unwitting cat.

Now, please pass the biscuits.

185 PS. where the hell is my damn sammich and beer? and why do I have a credit charge of $4,876.53???

;-)

186

Entropy, me neither. We have our disagreements but it would suck to see you banned. You're not obnoxious all the time.

HC on the other hand...

187

Roman should do time and he needs a cell mate close to his own age.

I say put him in with Charlie Manson and watch the fun. 

 

188 Wrong is wrong. There is no gray area.

189 What do you think the odds are we can get Polanski to be Charlie Manson's cellmate?
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie

Ha! Fatal attraction

190

I R A Darth Aggie

Where's Dahmer when he could have performed at least one socially redeeming act?

Think Abe Haze might violate the gag order and get tossed in with Roman & Jeffrey?  Yummy thought!

 

191 Darth. correct and wise, i know it , and  am now determined to use my mental ignore function. it's not really fair that ace would have to babysit this site, every minute because( I )can't act like  a grown up and take responsibility for my own stuff..

192 Polanski was smart to flee before sentencing.  He continued his career.  I won at trial and still lost my career.

193 Darth, OH? er sammich was yummy, sorry i forgot it twas yours, Beer? um hmm. under the pillow on the couch. well, are you saying you don't like the new chair,? It's  yours btw, sorry it's slightly pinkish. and dining room table what !!you want to sit on the floor with the sammich?

194

That is the real palin steele.  He's beyond redeemable and nothing anyone says to any of the trolls changes the way they think.  NOTHING.

So?

A) Trolls are part of the internets. Period end of story. You can go full on Chucky and ban half the eastern seaboard from sunup to sunset and still your work would not be done.

B) Commentors around here use to brag about how we got rid of all our trolls without banning them, which I find a much bigger accomplishment. And this was achieved mostly by having fun with them. Mocking them. Sockpuppeting them. Absolutely not ever being disturbed by them or getting pissed off by them (unless you were having fun beating them down).

Whining for a ban is food. Don't like, ignore. You get one's like erg, he'll certainly be back if you ban. He probably brags on lefty sites how many times he's been banned. That is the goal.

And of course, there's a problem of now it seems we've got a lot of new people who seem to be offended most by the aforementioned sockpuppets.....

Besides, they keep us apprised of moment by moment state-of-the-art DU talking points without me having to go there.

195

It also helps to not be really, really horrified and disgusted with what the trolls say.

You're giving them just what they want.

196 Serioulsy, dum dum, why do you bother? Do you take some perverse pleasure in all the abuse? Do you pull a piece of twine tighter and tighter around your tiny little micro-dick when you read the repsonses you recieve?

HEY!!!

197 The same people that tell us what a terrible place this country is, now want us to believe that being "exiled" is a horrible punishment.

fuck em'

198

HeatherRadish and Willow,

Thanks! :-)

199 Why doesn't everyone just ignore the trolls?  They'll go away eventually when they discover no one is paying attention to them.

200 Entropy,

Trolling is one thing. Hijacking EVERY. SINGLE. THREAD. is another. Look at the last stats Maetenloch posted - honest cloud was the number one prolific commenter last week.

The comments section are what drive this site. Make that unenjoyable, and participation will drop. Readership will follow.

If I put as many posts up in a single thread as this clod douche does, several of you would be bitching at me. So when he does it on every thread in which he posts, why is it that it's everyone else's fault for responding? He's becoming the content. I'm not okay with that.

Further, that turning the other cheek shit is for Quakers. Deputize some more trollbusters if need be and hound this idiot off the site.

201

@41 Johnathan: 

Libertarians can be on the right side of this issue.  Polanski violated that girls rights and the law should deal him harsh punishment. 

Posted by: California Red at September 29, 2009 02:39 PM (MOEti)

I couldn't agree more. I find it fascinating that the Right and Left are falling on opposite sides of this issue. I really don't understand how the difference could be -- simply -- political ideology.

202 Kate Harding deserves a Pulitzer Prize for commentary.

203

It also helps to not be really, really horrified and disgusted with what the trolls say.

You're giving them just what they want.

Exactly.

Besides, where do you draw the line?

I'm actually really horrified and disgusted by this (genuine moron addition):

What do you think the odds are we can get Polanski to be Charlie Manson's cellmate?

Normally I just wouldn't say anything. But that's vile, I find nothing humorous within 50 miles of Sharon Tate. To me, hell, that's as bad or worse then our troll's quasi-pedo defense.

And for what ever little it is worth (I am on your side here), Palin Steele is actually technically right in some sense of a fashion.

At 13 it is NOT pedophilia anymore. That doesn't mean it's right, (nor is fucking rape of anyone, non-statutory) but it's not really actual pedophilia. If not for his being a goddamn idiot, he might have actually made a half of a nuanced point out of that. As it is he just flops around alot and makes a fool of himself. I fail to see how anyone might justify this, but if he wasn't totally incompitent he might have made an arguable case for mitigating it slightly.

204 #128: tentacles are so involved in sex in real life.

205

"All that is necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing."

Any relevance to this post or the constant hijacking?

206 All that is necessary for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing."

And cigarettes. Evil smokes, you know.

207 Minka,

I understand that, and I understand that Polanski shouldn't get a pass because he's "respected" and "did good work" anymore than Teddy should have.

I just don't think the discussion here needs to be whether or not he should go to jail (technically he probably should, and my morals tell me he should, but the amount of damage and attention it will bring to a woman who has long since tried to put this out of her life and said she doesn't want this to happen should give us all pause), but rather whether people ought to be defending him.

They shouldn't of course, what he did was vile and wrong and indefensible and he should have spent many years in jail, but given that he took advantage of a crappy extradition system in 1978 and given that the global system is STILL shit (shocking, right?) I just wonder if this is more trouble than it's worth to bring a man to jail whom even his personal victim, 31+ years after doesn't want to, in the process sucking up a lot of resources, money, time, and the emotional health of Miss Geimer.

Anyway. Sorry for the length post, but in conclusion, Ace, I'm not so sure this was a wise post on the blog's part in that it served as an open invitation to trolls to say some truly heinous stuff. I understand we're not exactly a "family place" here, but what essentially amount to defenses of rape (whether sock puppeted or true) are beyond the pale.

A discussion on why, exactly, it took so long to get the international arrest warrant out, why the extradition process blows so much, why he was allowed to escape in the first place, those would all seem to be more bountiful in terms of legit conversation, maybe?

208 Could you at least automatically highlight the troll & disruptor comments in Coward Yellow or Commie Red, so those of us who don't care for them can identify them more easily and not waste time reading their tripe & drivel?

Of course, nuking them would be a better option.

209 I understand what you're saying Entropy.  And I completely agree about not going full-on Chucky.  But if the mocking and sockpuppeting of these two hasn't made them go away yet, nothing will.  Yes, I can scroll past their posts...and then past the responses to their posts...and then past some of the sockpuppeting of their posts...and then past their responses to other's posts about their stupid post and pretty soon it's 'ok, what the hell was this thread about'?

It's Ace's house...he can do what he thinks is right. 

(And we get the state of the art DU talking points daily from the MSM.) 

210 I hate to state the obvious, but he hasn't actually been convicted of anything. The plea deal is suspicious and does not count as a conviction.

The guys certainly smells like a scumbag but 13-year old girls are not known for their 100% truthfulness. He fled sentencing, but should be allowed to enter a new plea and let the courts decide what to do with the guy.

The orgasmic moral-outrage around her is a little strange. This shit happens all the time. it's unfortunate but true.

The warrant is good. The guy is a fugitive, and best case scenario, is a statutory rapist. Let the courts do what they do. That's what they're there for. Who cares if a bunch of Hollywood elitist want this guy to be let off the hook?

I don't see why we're all spastic about this.

211

Further, that turning the other cheek shit is for Quakers. Deputize some more trollbusters if need be and hound this idiot off the site.

Oh hell no - I'm not calling on anyone to turn the other cheek.

I'm asking them to deal with him vigilante style without invoking The Man.

212

Ah, a calming wit   h/t IMAO

A special daily prayer:

Lord, give me the patience to explain things to liberals who can have their minds change, the strength to punch in the face those who can�t, and the wisdom to know the difference.

213

They say truly heinous stuff whenever and wherever they want.  This place has been dealing with trolls for years. 

What's the big deal now all of a sudden?  Nervous Nancies from LGF?

Frightened Francisses from Nancy France?

214

Re banning trolls:

I've been guilty of engaging them once or twice in the short time I've been posting here.  I agree with Entropy for the most part.  Trolls allow us to see the liberal mindset at its most base level.  Hiding anonymously behind a screen name gives them the courage to say what is exactly in their dark little hearts.  Troll busting and beatdowns are teh funny, too. 

Trolls, are by definition, contrarians.

That said, I'm still at a loss as to why anyone would defend the actions of a child rapist or those who would facilitate it.  Is it really what they truly believe, or is it simple contrarianism?  I mean Ace was pretty even handed in his assessment of this whole thing, yet the troll twists himself into a pretzel to forgive the base crime by suggesting that since it's acceptable in some cultures, then we are the Neanderthals.

I think I just answered my own question.  Engaging in moral relativism is a fucked up way to lead your life.

215

I hate to state the obvious, but he hasn't actually been convicted of anything. The plea deal is suspicious and does not count as a conviction.

My understanding is he has been convicted but not sentanced. He pled guilty. He madea settlement with the victim out of court which is also an admission of guilt. And it probably wasn't even just statutory but both statutory (a minor) and a VIOLENT forceable rape.

As for moral outrage.... well wtf, you got Woopie saying it was a "rape" but not like a "rape-rape" you know, just sort of like a goofy "love-rape".

How can you not be outraged? How do you f'n respond to this lunacy without exasperation?

It's Ace's house...he can do what he thinks is right. 

True.

But Ace is kind of a pleaser. He'll probably do whatever most people ask him to.

216 TommyV at 210 wrut:

210 I hate to state the obvious, but he hasn't actually been convicted of anything. The plea deal is suspicious and does not count as a conviction.

I hate to state the obvious, but he has actually been convicted of something. The plea deal is something he agreed to, and it counts as a conviction.

And in California, we have mandatory sentences for such things--in this case, something like 8 years.

217

And in California, we have mandatory sentences for such things--in this case, something like 8 years.

Wouldn't he be sentenced based upon guidelines that existed when he originally pled guilty?

218

Good piece.

That's what Roman Polanski said.

219 Trolls are a fact of life on the internet and we've handled them pretty well in the past through mockery, sock-puppeting and ignoring them. And the occasional troll does spice things up a bit and keep the moron-on-moron fratricide down.

But every so often you get a troll who's prolific and just will not quit until they've jacked every thread. I think honest cloud has reached that point. He's posting 50+ comments a day and they're pretty much all insults with little argument. HC needs to be troll-busted into oblivion.

220

 You dweebs are gonna accidentally ban Wiserbud

BRING IT, BEYOTCHES!!!

221 It's probably already been mentioned here; if it has, it bears repeating:

It's "rape," not "abuse." Fucking a child is rape, and those who do it should be punished as rapists. Oh, and "fondling" a kid is rape, too. Nonconsensual sex--no matter the age or gender--is fucking rape, and any euphemisms meant to "soften" the offense ought to be unambiguously called out as such.

222 Ushie posted:

"No, stupid thing, you did not blow my mind. There is a DIFFERENCE between porn and real life. You see, porn, especially Japanese porn, is not real. There are very few tentacles involved in sex in real life."


Wait a minute??!!! You mean all that tentacle sex hentai thing is MADE UP?? Your ice holes are destroying all my cherished beliefs. I am going to have stop reading this stupid site.

On a more serious note: Two of the favorite lies about this are

a) The age of consent was 14 at the time, and she was almost there and

b) He didn't realize she was that young.

Patterico nicely demolishes both pieces of bullshit

a) Age of consent in California has been 18, since 1911, at least according the SCotUS, who, one would hope, know whereof they speak, and

b) Polanski admitted under oath, at the plea hearing, that he knew that the girl was 13.

Oh, I see from some fuckwit upthread now that "A plea deal is not an actual conviction."

Jeebus Christmas on a crutch, can we get trolls with an IQ of AT LEAST 70 or so??

David

223 As I pointed out, he plead guilty with the terms of a plea deal that was changed. If you're going to count his plea deal as a conviction (personally, if the judge changed the terms of the plea, I think he should be allowed to change his plea) what you're all freaking out about is "unlawful sexual intercourse" and not the details you guys have been describing.

You guys aren't talking about that, you're talking as if he was convicted of what the young woman said in her testimony. That he was convicted of 2nd degree rape or something. He wasn't convicted of that. (You crazy bastards are actually putting me in a position to defend what is - at the very least - a statutory rapist!)

Let the law do what it does. The guys had a good warrant, they nabbed him, let the process work. Why is this so special? I don't get it.

The self-righteous masturbation occurring at 2 of my favorite sites is ridiculous.

These kinds of crimes happen all the time!!!!!

All the fucking time!!!!!

You guys do not go into spasms every time a woman is raped so what the fuck is going on that this has you guys freaking out over?

Seriously. It's strange. The sanctimony of how outraged you are and your obvious sense of superiority of other people not being outraged enough is eye-rolling.

Let the guy seek re-trial, change his plea, and let the law take its course.

224

Good piece.

That's what Dummy said.

225

The self-righteous masturbation occurring at 2 of my favorite sites is ridiculous.

Physician, heal thyself.

226 Sorry, guys, I'm not a troll. Been on this site a long time. I just don't get what all the moral outrage is about and I don't feel comfortable with the sense of superiority on these threads.

If he did what he is accused of, OF COURSE, its horrible. OF COURSE, you let the law take its course.

You guys are spasing out over this like it matters what other people think. Like other people not agreeing with you on this somehow adds doubt to the heinousness of his actions.

I don't get it. If I am going to freak out over this, how many things during the day am i going to freak out over? It will never stop.

If he did what he is accused of, I don't need someone to affirm to me that he needs to answer to the law. What the hell does someone else's opinion have to do with it? This isn't an election. I'm not trying to sway votes here.

And again, while I mispoke a bit, the context of my writing was pretty clear. What he plead guilty to, and what you guys are claiming he plead guilty to, are not the same thing. And I personally believe if the judge changed the deal, then he should be allowed to change his plea.

But frankly, I don't care. i don't need you guys, or Polanski's defenders to explain to me what's right and what's wrong.

Polanksi has to answer to the law. It's the most obvious thing in the fucking world. What's the debate about?

Next.

227 I have a pretty bad feeling that roman pedolanski's ass kissers would be offended at this and demand death by lethal injection if it were glenn beck or rush limbaugh or Zip from weasel zippers were caught raping an underage girl

228

These kinds of crimes happen all the time!!!!!

I think the freakout is over the fact that there are large numbers of people willing to defend his crime.

It's disturbing to see widespread social acceptance of child rape, even if that view is in the minority.

229

Tyranny of the minority - here we go again.  The Left slowly advanced every minority (numbers, friend) position in this country.  Basically, STFU, it's not PC.  And we let it happen.  Don't worry about G20 protesters shutting down/damaging property - no biggie: that's YOUR problem.  Takes time to consult a PC rule book before you speak.  No problem.  That's YOUR problem.  Don't like trolls hijacking threads, wasting everyone's time.  Well it's YOUR fault, not the trolls.  They're the minority, that must above else not only be pampered, but given free reign.  Your rights - subjugated to theirs.

It's YOUR fault, not the trolls.  They have no responsibility, and hence should face NO consequences, for being less than civil, participating in this Republic's discourse.

 

230 I just wonder if this is more trouble than it's worth to bring a man to jail

In which case we ought to cut Charlie Manson & his "family" loose.

Oh, Sirhan Sirhan while I'm thinking about it.

According that "Polanski Scale of Justice", they've paid for their crimes a dozen-fold.

231 It was forcible rape:

".... it has long been recognized that �in order to establish force within the meaning of section 261, subdivision (2), the prosecution need only show the defendant used physical force of a degree sufficient to support a finding that the act of sexual intercourse was against the will of the [victim].� (People v. Young (1987) 190 Cal.App.3d 248, 257�258 [235 Cal.Rptr. 361] . . . .)

232 And again, while I mispoke a bit, the context of my writing was pretty clear. What he plead guilty to, and what you guys are claiming he plead guilty to, are not the same thing. And I personally believe if the judge changed the deal, then he should be allowed to change his plea.

He plead guilty to knowingly having sex with an underage girl. That's bad enough. Lots of people have been sent to jail for years for just that. From the girl's account it seems pretty clear that he's guilty of much worse. Why should he be treated better than your average priest or teacher guilty of stat-rape?

And he had his chance to change his plea, but chose to flee the country instead.

And on the morality scale anyone who hasn't raped a 13 year-old actually is better than Roman Polanski. It's not just a pose - we really are morally better than he is and we judge him as being a bad man.

233 Guys, it's pretty obvious to me that PoS is not a troll -- he is a spoof.  He's saying whatever retarded shit ("Champagne and drugs and she still said no?  Impossible!"  Come on guys, that's a dead giveaway!) that he thinks will get the most outraged response from you guys.  He's probably running off to Kos or Ball Juicers and posting your reactions to his nonsense -- and they're probably all having a big laugh over your busting veins.

When did "Do Not Feed The Trolls" become bad advice?  Never, that's when.

234

Actually I think P.S. is either socially retarded or on some kind of medication or both.  I used to think he/she/it was some kid taking the piss but I think it might be someone who has some mental health issues.

I don't think a kid taking the piss would be this persistent.

235 If he did what he is accused of, OF COURSE, its horrible. OF COURSE, you let the law take its course.

You'd have to be a real knucklehead to think that he didn't do what he is accused of.

236

You'd have to be a real knucklehead to think that he didn't do what he is accused of.
Convicted of.

237

But frankly, I don't care. i don't need you guys, or Polanski's defenders to explain to me what's right and what's wrong.

Polanksi has to answer to the law. It's the most obvious thing in the fucking world. What's the debate about?

Next.

Well..... for one thing, there are people who are arguing that he doesn't have to answer to the law.  What's your point?

Next?

238 235 If he did what he is accused of, OF COURSE, its horrible. OF COURSE, you let the law take its course.

You'd have to be a real knucklehead to think that he didn't do what he is accused of.

I wonder if Tommy V thinks OJ was guilty or murdering Nicole and Ron. Just a theory I have, but thinking OJ is innocent seems to be an indicator of all kinds of odd thinking.

239 Well, no surprise hollywood supports a child-rapist, they must be out of cop-killers to love.  Polanski is a poster boy for the death penalty.  As for the arguement that what he did wasn't so bad - how many of the libs saying that would be ok with someone raping their 13 or 15 year old kids? 

240 From your mother, when I was fucking her up her squeakhole, dickhead.

Next question?

Posted by: ace at September 29, 2009 02:44 PM (d6tLI)

Stay classy.

241

Guys, it's pretty obvious to me that PoS is not a troll -- he is a spoof.  He's saying whatever retarded shit ("Champagne and drugs and she still said no?  Impossible!"  Come on guys, that's a dead giveaway!)

The problem is, I have no idea what he actually said and what Trollbusters made him say. I'd write him off as a definite absolute sockpuppet/satire/spoof, but for the possibly one of our trollbusters is just tweakin him.

242 229

Tyranny of the minority - here we go again.  The Left slowly advanced every minority (numbers, friend) position in this country.  Basically, STFU, it's not PC.  And we let it happen.  Don't worry about G20 protesters shutting down/damaging property - no biggie: that's YOUR problem.  Takes time to consult a PC rule book before you speak.  No problem.  That's YOUR problem.  Don't like trolls hijacking threads, wasting everyone's time.  Well it's YOUR fault, not the trolls.  They're the minority, that must above else not only be pampered, but given free reign.  Your rights - subjugated to theirs.

It's YOUR fault, not the trolls.  They have no responsibility, and hence should face NO consequences, for being less than civil, participating in this Republic's discourse.

 

Posted by: MDr at September 29, 2009 05:08 PM (ucq49)

 

  You know, it always amuses me when some whining douchebag starts bleating about their RIGHT to not be exposed to trolls.  On the internet.  Where trolling was invented & perfected.

  You want non-interference with your brilliant rants?  Deliver them in front of the bathroom mirror in your underwear. 

  Trolls are part of the internet environment.  If you can't take a little troll exposure, maybe the AoSHQ isn't the place for you.  In other words:  Fucking nut up or shut up. 

243 M�tenloch :

Why should he be treated better than your average priest or teacher guilty of stat-rape?

I think you're making my point here, Maetenloch. Do you guys freak out like this over the priest scandal or every teach nearly every month that is accused or convicted of stat-rape?

What makes this so special? Because the Hollywood community supports this guy? So? What difference does that make? Is he somehow EXTRA guilty because he has supporters in Hollywood?

And on the morality scale anyone who hasn't raped a 13 year-old actually is better than Roman Polanski.

I don't think you're getting off thinking you're morally better than Polanski. I think you're getting off thinking you're morally superior to anyone that is not sufficiently outraged.

I think there is something clearly psychologically afoot with his defenders. They're not dealing with what he is accused of. They're rationalizing it away, choosing to believe their impression of Polanksi rather than what the facts might be.

But I think there is something psychologically afoot going on here as you guys seem to be competing at who is the most outraged - not by Polanski's actions - but by the lack of outrage of others.

244 They're the minority, that must above else not only be pampered, but given free reign.  Your rights - subjugated to theirs.

It's YOUR fault, not the trolls.  They have no responsibility, and hence should face NO consequences, for being less than civil, participating in this Republic's discourse.

Umm... dude...

Just to point out... you have no right not to be offended, and being "less then civil" is not a crime.

What constitutes 'civil' is so utterly subjective you'll be coming after me next.

245

@244

 

Any problem with hijacking loons?

246

@244

Civility is your/Left's battle cry for we lowly knucle draggers to STFU?  Right?

247

@244

Any fifth column training?  False flag?  Or just the reasoned voice of Durant?

248

@244

'civil' is your side's latest attempt to muffle us.  Get the the subtle dig.  Apparently not.  And we're well aware who has issued gag orders.

249

Ace - you are an attorney, right?  Putting everything of the plea bargain on the record makes that the record that a reviewing court has to use.  Having it scripted means that the positions of the attorneys and what they are agreeing to is on the record.

I don't doubt a lot of coaching is done, but I did clerk for a judge on the Wayne County Circuit Court Criminal Division, (Michigan) and all pleas followed a script to make sure that they were done properly and would not be open to attack by the state court of appeals.

Pleas were stopped when a defendant went off of script.  It was either done correctly or it went to trial.

Now, I am sure that more was done here in the way of scripting, but it is either done correctly so that the record is legally unassailable or it is not done.  No judge seriously wants to see a remand.

250 "My understanding is he has been convicted but not sentanced. He pled guilty."

Yes.  This is my understanding of the posture of the case as well.  Someone is not convicted until they are sentenced: the conviction is part of the judgment and sentence entered against them by the court.

"He madea settlement with the victim out of court which is also an admission of guilt."

Most civil settlements do not contain any concession of liability, let alone an admission to specific facts.  Even if this were the case, a civil settlement agreement--a document created for the specific purpose of litigation, or in this case for forestalling it--is not going to be admissible in criminal court on a whole number of different evidentiary grounds.

"And in California, we have mandatory sentences for such things--in this case, something like 8 years."

"Wouldn't he be sentenced based upon guidelines that existed when he originally pled guilty?"

Not only would he be, he has to be.  The substantive law applicable to a criminal case is the law in effect on the date of the offense.  To apply subsequent changes in the law is ex post facto and therefore unconstitutional.  Mandatory sentencing statutes are largely creations of the 80's and 90's, so while I don't know for certain, I would guess they don't apply here.

251

@244

@244

@244

@244

Yikes.

And we're well aware who has issued gag orders.

I'm not, and have no idea what you're talking about.

252

Disclosure:

I let the Kos Kids, Huff & Postures, and entropy's drive me from the "field" several years ago.  OK, Bush's New entitlement programs (No Child Left Behind & Medicare drugs for all), Campaign Finance Reform, etc (spending & lost freedoms) had something to do with it.

I was a coward.  I'll freely admit it.  Beaten down by the Left, disappointed in Bush, but not strong enough to stand and deliver.

But I'm not actually a newbie to this site or others, as some might suspect. I have been here and elsewhere, before I bowed out.  First got involved during Prez Zippers problems. 

I learned to recognize well, the barking moonbats vs the seemingly reasonable entropies vs that exceedingly rare species of the opposition that one could actually reason with.  You might not win all your arguements, but you'd at least get a few draws, after a civil disagreement.

Guess I've had too many years, and too many beers.  Maybe I'm just mis-remembering.

253

Yes.  This is my understanding of the posture of the case as well.  Someone is not convicted until they are sentenced: the conviction is part of the judgment and sentence entered against them by the court.

Well...uh... no. They are convicted, then they are sentanced. I'm no lawyer but unless you are, I think that's how it works.

Also, I do not believe the judge has to honor the plea deal anyway. I don't think you can go back and change your plea just because he doesn't honor the deal... he doesn't have to.

The prosecution can make a deal to charge you with less crimes, or a lesser crime, and the prosecution can request a more lenient sentancing, and the judge usually honors it, but I don't think they have to. They're not part of any deals.

254

@ 251

Pick one point, again.  Feign ignornace.  I know the game.

255

You know... I usually don't  bother to correct people when they do this.

But in this case, it kind of proves my point.

256

Feign ignornace. 

OK. You got me. At least some of my ignorance is feigned. I'm less ignorant on why we're arguing than you are. Trust me.

But not most of it, I assure you.

257

I will cut you some slack.

First, 1 question:

So you think I should be banned from commenting here, MDr, since I'm a troll?

258

Posted by: LikeATimeBomb at September 29, 2009 02:35 PM (J6xq2)

The crime is against the State of California.  The state takes care of justice for crimes against its citizens.  Why?  To keep the wronged from going after their own revenge/justice.  Blood fueds are bad for any society, and if the state cannot or will not pursue justice, then individuals and their kin will do it.

259 "Well...uh... no. They are convicted, then they are sentanced. I'm no lawyer but unless you are, I think that's how it works."

Yes, I am, and a prosecutor at that.  It's possible that other jurisdictions do things differently, but every criminal disposition that I've ever seen here in Florida enters conviction (either adjudication of guilt or the ubiquitous Floridian legal concept of the withhold of adjudication, but that's a tangent) and imposes sentence in the same order, often in the same line of the same order as to each count. 

Being made a convicted felon is a PART of a felony sentence, because it imposes civil disabilities independent of any other punishment (i.e., loss of your right to vote, own firearms, serve on a jury, etc.).  You can't make yourself a convicted felon simply by entering a plea without subsequent judicial action pursuant to that plea.

"Also, I do not believe the judge has to honor the plea deal anyway. I don't think you can go back and change your plea just because he doesn't honor the deal... he doesn't have to."

Generally speaking, no, but if a court doesn't accept a negotiated plea, a defendant MAY have grounds to withdraw the plea.  Different jurisdictions have differing rules on this, both in their rules of criminal procedure and as defined by case law.  In short, I don't know what the law is on this issue in California, and neither do you, so it may not be so perfectly cut-and-dried.

260

@ 257

Answer my questions first

261

@ 260

My bad. Accusations.  Assertions.  Be prepared to bring some creds.

262

So, what, now I have to provide credentials to avoid banning?

Recall that was my point in the first place. You start banning people for being "uncivil" or "not adding to the debate" and next thing you know you'll come for me.

After me, you'll turn into LGF.

I'm further to the right then Ace is. I've been posting here for, hell, I dunno, at least '04 I think. I'm a libertarian, Reagan/Goldwater conservative.

But apparently I'm also a member of the left/DKos who uses gag orders as a weapon and who is "seemingly semi-reasonable" but really looking to silence everyone with claims of 'civility' or some such. And I'm banned.

Not only am I arch-conservative, I frequently advocate attacking the left, the idea that we're basically in an ideological existential war with them, and using their own (alinsky-ite) tactics against them. I'm no wuss and no defeatist. No moderate. Sure as bloody hell NOT the one calling for 'civility' or appeasement.

But the moment you start creating subjective standards upon which to eliminate people from 'reasonable discussion' you've signed a suicide pact.

And yeah... you're not the first person to blatantly assume I was a DKOS Axelturf troll just on 1 single disagreement.Which, again, speaks directly to why many people need to take a chill pill vis-a-vis banning and trolls and witches and whatnot.

What ever happened to "Sticks and Stones"? Apparently that was a local thing? Nowhere else in the country are children taught that words can never hurt them?

Cuz I can tell you, as a culture, this wisdom is nowhere to be found.

263

Ace says:  "continuing to work as a director, marrying and fathering two children..."

I guess he couldn't get that 13 year old out of his mind, when he married two children.  What a scum bag.  Three kids whose lives are ruined by this scum bucket.  So, Ace, exactly how many girls/women/boys did the guy end up marrying.

264

@ 262

Answer my accusations/assertions.  You're playing HC's game.

Sorry, I've been gone awhile.  Had to eat & see O'reilly.  Heard a rumor that Lanny Davis would be on.  I thought no way the Left would become that desperate.

265

@ 264

Creds?  Those can wait.  Answer/respond first.

266

219:

Agreeing with you does not violate my self-imposed /ignore on that-which-shall-not-be-named.  I agree with you.

267

93:

Fortunately our justice system sees it differently.  It's not only about the present victim, its about the next one.

In a nutshell, if Polanski hadn't fled, took his sweetheart plea, then raped another child a year later, what would the police tell that kid's parents ? "Sorry, the victim forgave him so we let him go."

Prosecutors might ask a victim if they are willing to testify, and elect to prosecute or not based on the problems of proof a refusal to testify may present, but the question of whether the victim wishes the perp to be prosecuted or not isn't really a relevant issue - see Violence, Domestic.

All too often the victims of rape and domestic violence have seemingly nonsensical impulses to forgive their violators and/or blame themselves.  The system's aim is to protect the other 13 year old potential victims, more so than vindicating the present victim.  Therefore, her wishes at this stage are moot, in that her testimony clearly established non-consensual sex (in case Whoopi's still confused, that's Rape Rape). 

To my knowledge, the victim in this case has never claimed her testimony was fabricated in any way, and her desire to let this go stems from wanting to avoid a horrible memory and the media feeding frenzy, not because the situation was somehow misunderstood and Polanski did not in fact rape her.

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Entropy

We're not done.  We'll finish this when you get back.  You'll have plenty of time to consider, then respond to my asserations/accusations.

One over-arching question is why would you defend the nearly indefensible, repeatedly (Honest Cloud)?  It's not a matter of - better 100 guilty men (trolls) go free (unbanned) that to falsely imprison (ban) one man (troll).  There's plenty of other sites where he could continue his barking moonbat thread jackings.  Is his continued interruptions & distractions of the opposition's discourse that important? There's more, but here's a start. 

feign ignorance - stall - change the subject - stall - ask a question before answering one - stall - parse - stall

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