1 Honestly what is the best strategy now?  With these clowns in charge would it be better to pull out now and maybe come back later when there are adults in control?

2 But some theoretical future war? Oh absolutely, under the right conditions they are so there.

Those "right conditions" are unlikely to ever materialize, and even if they did, the Democrats/leftists are unlikely to be able to recognize them.

3 obama = dickbag

4 o just told reporters at G-20, that he quote.....
"Is not interested in victory."


Build a bomb shelter.....NOW

He is giving our country to the Islamists. 

5 The best thing to do now is go all in to win.

There will not be a second chance.

6 right now it does seem like our troops are screwed either way.  we're shovelling snow while it's still snowing now.  if we come back later it will be like ft. drum, NY after a snowfall, there will be 20 feet of snow to dig ourselves out of.

7 mmm,mmm,mmm,

Barack Insane Obama

8

Listen I am no fan of that racist motherfucker in the White House...but maybe we shouldn't be in Afghanistan?

Why not adopt the policy of Islam is hopeless and the best we can do is slap any country around that harbors those who attack us. Trying to reform Islam is absolutely a fools game.

9 This is purely politics.  McChrystal put the Obama administration in a box so they did the only thing they can do and save face, kick the can down the road until they can do what they want later with less scrutiny.

10 Paging Code Pink, Paging Code Pink.  You have politicians screwing with the lives of servicemen that you supposedly care about.  You care about the troops right????  Nothing but crickets I bet those spineless bitches.

11 Honestly what is the best strategy now?  With these clowns in charge would it be better to pull out now and maybe come back later when there are adults in control?

Posted by: John Galt at September 26, 2009 06:23 PM (Ylv1H)

Of course it would be better to pull out of Vietnam 2.0

These leftist assholes couldn't achieve victory with 500,000 troops.

Sending more troops to fight under this President is signing their death warrants, due to fuckups from the top on down.

Anyone who claims otherwise is not being intellectually honest.

12 We know Barry wants to pull out. Remember the Surge and what Princess Obama said about it?

Do the opposite of what Barry wants and you will be right 110% of the time.

13 I wonder where are all the liberal anti-war protesters at?  This would be right up their alley.  Hey dum-dum, what do you think of this?

14 This also is likely tied to the health care debacle unfolding on Capital Hill.

Depend on it. Everything will be tied to health care. "No national defense until you give me my health care bill. Gonna have to prosecute every former Bush official in sight if you don't give me my health care bill. Since I haven't gotten my health care bill, I'm going to have to fix the economy by regulating oil companies into bankruptcy and then taking them over. We'll have to make cap and trade that much more restrictive, too."

The fvcker's going to extort us.

15 If we pull out of Afghanistan, I believe India and Pakistan will nuke each other.

You can not control how bad things will get when you turn tail and run.

16 Five soldiers killed this weekend.

Obama should be impeached.

Someone offer him a movie contract, and get him out of the WH.

17 True 'dat, CDR M.

Seems like it isn't so much the Demo leadership caving to popular pressure, rather, they are looking to drum up popular pressure to dump A-stan. Why the sudden rush to lose?

18 I'd call Obama's bluff.  Fuck him if he's going to fuck with national security to get his health care.  If he gets his health care, we may as well pack it in anyway.  America as we knew it won't be coming back at that point so it would be better to go all in on this.

19 Cowardly

Not 'No,' but let's wait until a couple of hundred more of our guys and gals get killed so that it's publicly palatable to redeploy back here.

And I'm not sure what 'choice' you think Obama has made, DrewM.  It certainly looks like the liberals are continuing to push the public option.

20 In a sane world this pos would be impeached and thrown into Leavenworth for treason for playing political games with our soldiers lives.

21 The Dems want us to bug out of Afghanistan because they feed on despair. They are political vampires.

They want something to pin on Republicans; a new Vietnam War. A war that was lost by Democrats, but pinned on Nixon and Republicans.

Stay and win.

22

The best thing to do now everytime is go all in to win.

fify

and tebow sucks

23
What a loser.

24

 Paging Code Pink, Paging Code Pink.

I'd like to get all worked up about the safety of our baby killers troops but I've got so much to do:

1. Practice angry face.  2.  Mousse arm pit hair 3.Try to disguise B.O. (mine, not the one in the White House)with Patchouli oil   4. Stretch 44" long droopy boobies out before our next topless protest   5. Blame Bush (the one that was in theWhite House - not mine)  6.  Watch Obermann blow angry spittle over racists who don't worship our B.O (Uh, White House again)

You try fitting all that into one day!

25 XBrad, it would be so easy for them to drum up the popular pressure to dump Afghanistan.  Code Pink, MoveOn, Huffington, MSM, etc would be able to make the coverage Vietnamesque so fast it would make your head spin.  They haven't been covering A-Stan much at all anyway.  Barely a peep on the election.  It wouldn't take much to leave.  I say do it.  If it isn't going to be fought the right way, pull out and we'll face the enemy another day.  Guess I'll have to go find a Ninja outfit to be part of Biden's GI Joe team.

26 Afghanistan is a giant whack a mole

27 My prayers have been answered.

28 Barak Obama, losin' wars, takin' vacations.

29 I guess one way to make a point on Obama is to highlight how many troops get killed while he dithers over other matters.  Of course I am against that because it is the wrong thing to do to our guys but the libs have done it for 7 years plus.  Alinsky rules would dictate the use of it.

30 Posted by: arhooley at September 26, 2009 06:32 PM (6egm

+1, Fumbliah Wright will put everything aside in order to socialize the healthcare system and entrench a permanent welfare state into the American psyche.

Worked well post the New Deal, which now has our countrymen hamstrung by their dependence on the state, paying into a canard that is bankrupting our economy and destroying our independence/individual rights.

If this "public option" is enacted, we will have single-payer government run healthcare in short order.

The producers in this country are being driven out. The symbiosis between the all powerful leftist state and it's parasitic supporters is nearly complete.

Bread and circuses.

31 15 If we pull out of Afghanistan, I believe India and Pakistan will nuke each other.

You can not control how bad things will get when you turn tail and run.

Could well happen.

Iran could also much more easily push its nuclear weapons program -- it's not like the Obama Administration could credibly threaten force against Iran when it can't even sustain a campaign in Afghanistan.  And the vaunted sea-borne missile shield won't be much protection, given that it has to cover a wide geographic area and the Iranians possess missiles in sufficient numbers to overwhelm it.

And maybe worst of all, given that Afghanistan and Pakistan would become a terrorist factory on overtime, we'd be hard-pressed to deal with the proliferation of terror plots on American soil.  Unless anyone really thinks its healthy for America to start ignoring freedom of religion and equal treatment by national origin, and to expel anyone of a suspicious religious or ethnic background -- because short of that, it would be next to impossible to control the flow of terrorist operatives from Pakistani and Afghan training camps into the USA, given that the terrorist trainees can come from any country of origin and that they can flow easily from Pakistan into a number of Muslim and European states for ultimate transit to the USA.

32  I've been in the military for 21 yrs now and this is stupid.

We can win in Afghanistan if they give us the resources. If they don't, we won't. The administration can manufacture defeat if they want.  I hope Petreaus and McChrystal are honorable enough to resign if that happens.  

It's very simple. BHO has a very substantial history of being a hawk on Afghanistan,while being a puss on Iraq. You telling me that was just political posturing? GTFO! Guess what Barry, you own it now.

Now that Iraq was won in 180 degree opposition to his policies, he is screwed.

He's weak on Iraq, weak on Iran, and now he's wobbling on the one war he was 'strong' on. How can you trust anything this guy says? Ever.

33

It's so much easier voting "present" than making a hard decision.  Obozo is a disgusting coward.  

Maybe the Afghans should talk to the South Vietnamese about how best to handle it when America tosses you under the bus.

34 Oh yeah, thanks 52%.

35 16 Five soldiers killed this weekend.

Remember when the news- local and national- would salute every soldier who died, you know, another grim milestone?

When was the last time you heard an American serviceman died? Can't remember, can you?

Didn't you know that there are only grim milestones under a Republican president? When a solider dies under a Democrat, it's like he never lived at all.

36 34 Oh yeah, thanks fuck you 52%.

Posted by: eman at September 26, 2009 06:43 PM (ywFGF)

FIFY

37 Hey, I think I just found the translation of McCrystal's request into common vernacular:

http://bit.ly/40o2Pp

38 Time for ice cream!

39 Maybe it's plain stupidity and laziness. Obama knows he's in so far over his head that any successes during his presidency will come by accident or the work of others. Could be Afghanistan is like a sick dog to him. Shoot it! Too hard to cure, and it might bite.

40 It's a sad day when the French President has more balls than the American President.  Very sad day.

41 The easiest route for Obama is to bail out.

42 McCrhystal needs to start making rounds on the Sunday morning talkshows and cable, and force Obama's hand further.  Preferably before everyone's distracted by Israels strike on Iran.

43 I am curious what the Chairman's opinion is on what we should do. Seems to me that going along--right now--with a delay means:

A.) if a pullout is done, willingly sacrificing whoever dies between now and the time for a pullout so as to not cause political heartburn for political bosses who do not wish a decision now. Now, from the willingness of Navy leadership to routinely sacrifice officers so as to not cause problems with politicos (especially Democrats--think of the various "sexual harassment" cases of the last few years that, perhaps, were a little more harsh in sentencing than expected or warranted), this would not surprise me.  In other words, providing political cover when there is no duty or obligation to do so.

B.) if the decision is made to fight, willingly allowing more to die who would not have died if the enemy were defeated sooner rather than later.

Delay means death, one way or another. The difference being will the sacrifices be made in vain, or not. I would prefer not.  That is the President's call to make, with Congress able to make its own views known via the budget and resolutions, and the people able to make their views known via the power of their voices, and later, the ballot box.

But it is not the job of the brass to do anything but try to fight and win if they think that should be done. If not--then they should say so now. If they do think we should fight to win, duty demands they also say so now, and let the political branch take care of its own political problems caused by this.

ADM Mullen needs to decide if he is a warrior and man of honor (regardless of which course he chooses) or a politician--and he must decide this week, this day, this hour, this moment. Strong words, I know, and perhaps harsh words, but these are times that demand such. He is the chief advisor to the President and Secretary of Defense. He must advise, and now is the time. If the civilian side then wishes to delay so they can, you know, as the mood hits them and they have the odd spare moment, figure out a strategy, that is their prerogative. But the military should have their choice for a strategy figured out now, and it is time for them to say what they think should be done, and then let the polticos have at it. To not so say if they have a desired course is cowardice; to not have a desired course is negligence. 

44 I need advice on this Afghanistan thing.

Get Amy Carter on the phone. Stat!

45 Paging Code Pink, Paging Code Pink.


You rang?

http://bit.ly/lbDQX

46

It's a sad day when the French President has more balls than the American President

even worse, its a sad day when the president of russia has a better looking wife than the american president

47 25 XBrad, it would be so easy for them to drum up the popular pressure to dump Afghanistan.  Code Pink, MoveOn, Huffington, MSM, etc would be able to make the coverage Vietnamesque so fast it would make your head spin.  They haven't been covering A-Stan much at all anyway.  Barely a peep on the election.  It wouldn't take much to leave.  I say do it.  If it isn't going to be fought the right way, pull out and we'll face the enemy another day.  Guess I'll have to go find a Ninja outfit to be part of Biden's GI Joe team.

You're spot on about the popular pressure;  Nancy Pelosi says it's already happening.

But if we pull out, we will never go back in -- there will never be a right "another day" to do it.  And we don't have the national will to "nuke 'em from orbit," which is the only way a long-distance campaign would have any effect on the capacity and will of the bad guys in Afghanistan and Pakistan to plot, train for and arm for our destruction.

48 21 The Dems want us to bug out of Afghanistan because they feed on despair. They are political vampires.

They want something to pin on Republicans; a new Vietnam War. A war that was lost by Democrats, but pinned on Nixon and Republicans.

Stay and win.

Posted by: eman at September 26, 2009 06:37 PM (ywFGF)

Respectfully, I don't see the logic in that.

Hard to pin this on the party completely out of power, with ZERO leadership.

How the fuck are you supposed to "stay and win" with Obama and Biden at the helm? They are causing troop deaths now by keeping the force levels low enough to cause elevated risks, not to mention the rules of engagement micro management they are sure to keep imposing, albiet on a more ridiculous level in the future.

It's not a war worth fighting under this leadership.

Watch what Obama does with Iraq, which was won under Bush.

49

I wish I had see this before I attened our Congressman's health care townhall this morning.  My Rep. is Buck McKeon, and he is the ranking member on the armed services committee.  I would have gone OT and asked him how hard the Congressional Republicans are pushing on this. 

Fuck every politician who puts politics ahead of our troops' welfare.

50

Remember how important it was for the media to take pictures of coffins ariving back in country from the war?

How many of those photos have been important since BO is pres now?

51 35 16 Five soldiers killed this weekend.

Remember when the news- local and national- would salute every soldier who died, you know, another grim milestone?

The British papers are doing that now for their soldiers killed in Afghanistan.  It isn't any prettier over there than it was here.

52 The JCS need to man up and speak their mind and damn the political ramifications.  That's what the politicians are for.  They need to speak for the military side and they need to do it loud and clear.  I have no use for a military man that is more concerned for the political fallout than getting the mission done and taking care of his troops.  Where's Patton when you need him?  The ghost of Patton needs to show up at the White House and slap some sense into the CinC.

53 Yeah "review" out Afgan Policy carefully and take all the time ya need---but G-D it rush that healthcare thru with no review, no written bill to read, and no matter the cost?

It's like living in the Bizzaro World?

54 Those "right conditions" are unlikely to ever materialize, and even if they did, the Democrats/leftists are unlikely to be able to recognize them.
Posted by: Blacque Jacques Shellacque

Come, come, Jacques. Of course those conditions can exist. Let's not be that cynical.

A Leftist will recognize that war is justified two seconds before the black boot of some tyrannical thug crushes their larynx.

55 I can't believe Obama has any kids, since he's always pulling out too soon.

56 But if we pull out, we will never go back in -- there will never be a right "another day" to do it.  And we don't have the national will to "nuke 'em from orbit," which is the only way a long-distance campaign would have any effect on the capacity and will of the bad guys in Afghanistan and Pakistan to plot, train for and arm for our destruction.

Posted by: stuiec at September 26, 2009 06:48 PM (f0O9k)

We don't have the national will to watch another Vietnam underfold either.

Which is what continued engagement under the Obama administration unequivocally would lead to.

You know this is the case. There is no room for victory (read: a tough, bloody ground war with high causalities) under Obama/Biden/Pelosi/Reid.

57 You know, maybe ice cream isn't such a good idea. Maybe pancakes would be better. Everybody likes pancakes and it is getting a bit chilly.

That's it. I've made up my mind. Cancel Operation Creamsickle and initiate Operation Bulldozer.

58 Present!

59 I have a chopper pilot son there.  He says we're fighting with one hand.  Unless we fight with both and win, I say get out.  There's never been anything there worth a damn except various warlords and tribes.  At least Iraq has a long history of "civilization."

This president can't maintain Bush's sandwich strategy (just look at a map to deduce what I'm talking about).

60 Both my daughters were in Iraq and I was not really all that terrified. My younger one will be leaving for Afganistan in December and I am already frozen with fear. If Chicago Slim sends our kids over there with one hand tied behing their backs, how are they supposed to survive

61 We don't have the national will to watch another Vietnam underfold either.

Which is what continued engagement under the Obama administration unequivocally would lead to.

You know this is the case. There is no room for victory (read: a tough, bloody ground war with high causalities) under Obama/Biden/Pelosi/Reid.
Posted by: randomguy at September 26, 2009 06:52 PM (B5RxW)

I am afriad you are right. I said all along, he is just going to declare the job done one way or another and pull out- or should I say cut and run

62 I see weapons-grade retard in the White House.

63 Posted by: Old Sailor at September 26, 2009 06:53 PM (/Ft4q)

Well, there is fertile ground for billions of USD worth of opium.

But we let that go on, as part of our "winning strategy" up to this point.

That's a perverse and cold calculation that I think is a black eye on American foreign policy.

64 55 I can't believe Obama has any kids, since he's always pulling out too soon.

Winner.

65 randomguy,

I see what you are saying, but I think pulling out would be extremely reckless. You have to take a strategic point of view on this.

Winning with the Commies in charge is 100 times harder, for sure, but losing no matter who is in charge would be a disaster.

66

#45 Paging Code Pink, Paging Code Pink.


You rang?

http://bit.ly/lbDQX

Good Christ, what is that hanging from her dress?

67 We either need to pull out or go full bore. Having just the tip in isn't working.

68 Obama is a coward. He has no spine and he is an empty suit. Is anyone is surprised by his inaction and inability to make a decision? He will ruin the greatness of america if we do not get control of congress in the mid term elections.

69 47 25 XBrad, it would be so easy for them to drum up the popular pressure to dump Afghanistan.  Code Pink, MoveOn, Huffington, MSM, etc would be able to make the coverage Vietnamesque so fast it would make your head spin.  They haven't been covering A-Stan much at all anyway.  Barely a peep on the election.  It wouldn't take much to leave.  I say do it.  If it isn't going to be fought the right way, pull out and we'll face the enemy another day.  Guess I'll have to go find a Ninja outfit to be part of Biden's GI Joe team.

You're spot on about the popular pressure;  Nancy Pelosi says it's already happening.

But if we pull out, we will never go back in -- there will never be a right "another day" to do it.  And we don't have the national will to "nuke 'em from orbit," which is the only way a long-distance campaign would have any effect on the capacity and will of the bad guys in Afghanistan and Pakistan to plot, train for and arm for our destruction.

Posted by: stuiec at September 26, 2009 06:48 PM (f0O9k)

I understand your point but I would rather give up Afghanistan if it means we lose more men and women fighting a slow retreat.  If we are to be done with it, then be done with it and prepare for the next battle.  You are probably right that we won't get back in if we pull back but so be it.  It's not worth it if you know that your elected leadership are playing you for a pawn.  Probably see units just fortify themselves in bases and let it go to hell around them until they pull out.

70 48

Hard to pin this on the party completely out of power, with ZERO leadership.

How the fuck are you supposed to "stay and win" with Obama and Biden at the helm? They are causing troop deaths now by keeping the force levels low enough to cause elevated risks, not to mention the rules of engagement micro management they are sure to keep imposing, albiet on a more ridiculous level in the future.

It's not a war worth fighting under this leadership.

The pinning part will be easy for Obama and Co.  "If Bush had given the Afghan campaign the proper resources from the start, it would have been won even before I took office.  However, since Bush and the Republicans had to have their war in Iraq, they screwed up Afghanistan so bad that there's just no way to fix it."  See how easy?

As for being a war worth fighting, on the one hand, it's certainly a war worth fighting and winning, and certainly vital to America's national security.  On the other hand, if it's going to be fought, it has to be fought with the ultimate goal of victory and sufficient resources to accomplish that goal.

I am all for a political strategy that forces Obama to make the choice himself and to take clear and unequivocal responsibility for that choice: fight the Afghan campaign to win utilizing all of the resources necessary for victory, or declare defeat and withdraw.  There should not be an in-between, and the withdrawal (if it comes) should not be called "peace with honor" or "let's let the Afghans stand up for themselves," it should be called what it is: defeat.

71 @47
And we don't have the national will to "nuke 'em from orbit,"

4 years (or however long he lasts before nervous breakdown and/or impeachment) of Obama's policies and the muslims will help us find that will.

72 it would be so easy for them to drum up the popular pressure to dump Afghanistan. Code Pink, MoveOn, Huffington, MSM, etc

Don't forget the NEA! (Also elementary schools, ACORN, any American industry willing to make a big pro-bama ad buy in exchange for a promise of non-extortionist regulation)

73 Amazing how little media cares about the deaths of soldiers or the coffins now that their leader is in office.
Obama doesn't give two dead flys about the military or Afghanistan. Do you see him supporting the troops like W did? Where are the visits and pep talks at any base?
Little things matter and are 'tells".
He opposed the surge, why would he do it in Afghanistan?
His politically formative years were with people who regarded the military as murderers- do you think he completely ignored their beliefs? Not a chance.
Thanks again 52%.

74

even worse, its a sad day when the president of russia has a better looking wife than the american president

Posted by: navycopjoe at September 26, 2009 06:48 PM (Q2tkO)

Bro, everyone's wife is better looking than his wife.

75 nervous breakdown
Posted by: Methos
---------------------------
I've been seeing this possibility kicked around a lot on the internets. I'd like a thread to discuss it sometime.

76
You're spot on about the popular pressure;  Nancy Pelosi says it's already happening.


But is it? I haven't seen jack shit except Demo politicians saying there's no support. It's not like there was a huge march on 9/12 about it, or Congressmen being hounded by constituents all through August. The SEIU isn't astroturfing protests.

No, the Dem leadership just wants an excuse to get out.

77 I'll be seeing y'all real soon.

78 65 randomguy,

I see what you are saying, but I think pulling out would be extremely reckless. You have to take a strategic point of view on this.

Winning with the Commies in charge is 100 times harder, for sure, but losing no matter who is in charge would be a disaster.

Tough topic. After losing both friends and a member of extended family in Iraq (most were NG members who were pulled in due to Army shortages), I have to say my perspective has changes over the years.

Under Bush, I'm glad they eventually got it right, and had the honor and courage to make the tough calls. It was sad to see death due to bad strategy.

I will not, and cannot condone further action under the leadership in our government. I know in my heart, and more logically, in my mind that there can not be victory under this leadership, and Americans will die with no chance of victory in Afghanistan.

I'm out.

79 Jaimo-

I believe it's her nasty underbelly.

I apologize.

80 There is no such thing as pulling out of the War on Terror.

Let's remember one lesson from 9-11. We are all on the front lines; everyone, everywhere, everyday.

I worry just as much about my kid who lives in NYC and rides the subway everyday. At least when your kid is in the Service they give her a rifle and she can shoot back.

My kid is just a target relying on luck and the response to 9-11 created by President Bush.

81 74

even worse, its a sad day when the president of russia has a better looking wife than the american president

Posted by: navycopjoe at September 26, 2009 06:48 PM (Q2tkO)

Bro, everyone's wife is better looking than his wife.

Well Jabba the Hutt's wife might give Michelle a run for it!

82 There is no such thing as pulling out of the War on Terror.

Haven't you heard? There is no more War on Terror, as on Jan, 2009.

If there is another large attack on American soil, tactical nukes will have public support -- and frankly, thats all the effort Afghanistan deserves.

83

What is that hanging from her dress?

The medical term for that is pannus.  Look it up. In a sentence, "It takes pannus to make peace."

84 69 I understand your point but I would rather give up Afghanistan if it means we lose more men and women fighting a slow retreat.  If we are to be done with it, then be done with it and prepare for the next battle.  You are probably right that we won't get back in if we pull back but so be it.  It's not worth it if you know that your elected leadership are playing you for a pawn.  Probably see units just fortify themselves in bases and let it go to hell around them until they pull out.

I don't see it as whether we "give up Afghanistan" -- we're no longer playing the real-world version of Risk the same as we were in the Cold War.

I see it as whether Afghanistan continues as a cancer in the world's body politic, pumping out toxins in the form of terrorists and Taliban ideology, or gets cured and turned back into healthy tissue.  As much as I think the Afghan people have the same right to exist as any other people, if their expression of that right is to train and arm jihadists, to be a toxic and spreading tumor, I would regretfully but firmly support their eradication, if need be, to preserve the safety and security of everyone else.

Right now, we have a choice between escalating our war in-country to cure the cancer or pulling out and letting it metastasize throughout Afghanistan, Pakistan, all of Central Asia, and ultimately throughout the world.  If we withdraw the "chemo" of our in-country campaign, I don't see anyone stepping up for the "surgery" of a massive bombing campaign to disable the Afghan Taliban and Al-Qaede once and for all.  (I think the only instrument massive enough for that surgery would be thermonuclear in nature.)

85 I suppose Barry figures that a destructive domestic agenda supercedes a couple of pesky wars in terms of how quickly he can bring this country to its knees. 

86 82,

The Democrats want you to give into despair.

Resist them.

87 76
You're spot on about the popular pressure;  Nancy Pelosi says it's already happening.

But is it? I haven't seen jack shit except Demo politicians saying there's no support. It's not like there was a huge march on 9/12 about it, or Congressmen being hounded by constituents all through August. The SEIU isn't astroturfing protests.

No, the Dem leadership just wants an excuse to get out.

Exactly.  The radical Left doesn't need to demonstrate in the street to get Congress to do what it wants.  Congress already wants to do what the radical Left wants it to do.

88 "Seems he's made his choice."

Barry made a "choice"?  Shit!  Did someone have a gun to his head?  The issue hasn't been constructed that Barry can't straddle.

89

i've never allowed myself to say that the CIC should have at least 2 years active duty experience, even if it is being a spoon, yet if it prevents an obama  from ever getting back into the position of CIC  then yes -ammend the US Const. call me whatever you want but damn him and the liberals damn them all to hell. obama does not care nor does he have any clue as to what it means to be the cic while at war!

90 I have seen the enemy, and it is the left.

Muslim terrorists are annoying, but the threat that they represent is small compared to the constant attacks by leftists in our midst.  They call themselves progressives because the progressive destruction of our nation and the world is what they strive to achieve.

It isn't the least bit surprising that Obama is working to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.  People like him want to see Americans dead and our nation destroyed. 

91 76
You're spot on about the popular pressure;  Nancy Pelosi says it's already happening.


But is it? I haven't seen jack shit except Demo politicians saying there's no support. It's not like there was a huge march on 9/12 about it, or Congressmen being hounded by constituents all through August. The SEIU isn't astroturfing protests.

No, the Dem leadership just wants an excuse to get out.

Posted by: XBradTC at September 26, 2009 07:02 PM (NimeM)

The anti-war crowd is leery going after Obama on Afghanistan because Barry O made it abundantly clear that Afghanistan is the right war and for him to turn tail and run seriously damages his established position that cannot be nuanced out of.  He said it needed to be resourced right and now he has an opportunity but won't.  If Obama cuts and runs now, it kills Obamacare, cap and trade and basically his Presidency.  His performance last week at the UN was comical.  Tough talk but no action.  He knew about the second Iranian facility months ago and yet he never mentions it before yesterday all the while setting up talks and kissing their ass.  Every other foreign country out there is laughing at us.  Laughing.  They do not fear us.  They are now just negotiating for how much they get out of us.  Reparations to the world baby via carbon credits, no nuclear weapons and giving up the dollar as the world's currency.

92 The Democrats want you to give into despair.

Resist them.

Posted by: eman at September 26, 2009 07:07 PM (ywFGF)

If that's there plan it's having the opposite effect on me.

93 80 Same here: kid going to college in New York.  At the Jewish Theological Seminary, no less -- you think she might be in proximity to some prime al-Qaeda civilian targets?

94 according to the "latest comments" sidebar .theres a massive ugg boots sale going on here....is this the same seller who also hawks mommy jeans,dildos,and lace ponytail wigs?

95 Dude just level the whole fukn region and turn it into a giant parking lot.  Put a Mall of America smack dab in the middle.  The indoor roller coaster would be epic.

96 Americans will die with no chance of victory in Afghanistan.

Posted by: randomguy

-------------

How do you like thinking about the Afghanistan War Memorial? What shall it be? A wall, a tower, a statue, a pillar, an esplanade?

97

Obama's policies have the shelf-life of a carton of milk.

98 How do you like thinking about the Afghanistan War Memorial? What shall it be? A wall, a tower, a statue, a pillar, an esplanade?

Posted by: arhooley at September 26, 2009 07:11 PM (6egm \

Much like the AZ 9/11 memorial, I believe this country will make it a Islamic crescent.

Bang up job we did rebuilding the towers, BTW.

99

I see a lot of folks declaring that we can win in Afghanistan but I doubt that anyone had really thought this through. What defines winning? Are we seriously trying to make all those tribes love each other? Taliban are merely another violent tribe another part of Islam. Exactly how do you win?

If we had a President with courage and a President who stood behind her...oops gave away my hope...she would pull the soldiers out with a promise. Any training camps get established and we start making shit bounce...and we won't worry about who dies.

The world is a barbaric place and we shouldn't be so arrogant as to believe we are going to reform it. All we can do is punish it when it gets out of hand.

Now of course I know that Bambi is not the one to be giving those sorts of threats but truthfully if my son was over there I would not want him subject to Bambi's war fighting skills.

100

101

I'm trying to imagine what the public reaction would have been if FDR had said "I'm uncomfortable using the word 'victory' to describe the United States' goal in Europe and the Pacific." 

I'm picturing a combination of torches and pitchfork-wielding citizens storming the White House and the fate of the wheelchair-bound OJ Simpson character Nordberg at the end of The Naked Gun.

102 How do you like thinking about the Afghanistan War Memorial? What shall it be? A wall, a tower, a statue, a pillar, an esplanade?

I think it's been done.  In the basement of a Mayan temple.

103

If McChrystal actually wants Obama to pay attention to his request for troops, he should see if Letterman can work it into his "Top Ten" list next time Obama is on.

...or the General could misrepresent himself as a reporter for a hipster mag, see if he can score some face time.

104 Dude just level the whole fukn region and turn it into a giant parking lot. Put a Mall of America smack dab in the middle. The indoor roller coaster would be epic.
Posted by: tdpwells

I have another idea. Tell the rest of the Muslim world that they're responsible for Afghanistan. Terror attempt on America gets traced back there, we hit Syria. Next attack, Pakistan. Next, Libya. Rotate. Saudi Arabia can pay for the cleanup.

105

Aw c'mon, DrewM. -- he's talking tough on Iran. If you wanted a president who talks tough on Iran, you have one. So now you can get behind healthcare.

(And no, I'm not being sarcastic. I honestly believe that's the thinking at 1600.)

106 Ok, enough gloom for me. I hope America kicks the shit out of the jihadists while we're still in that rathole.

I'm off to wedding, and getting my head out of this muck.

Have a better evening, morons (in the good sense!)

107 It might be nice for some political figure to speak out. Maybe to say something to the effect of, "The political interference in the Afghanistan campaign brings back very bad memories of Vietnam. Our fighting men and women are being hamstrung by Washington, just as they were forty years ago. The status quo is insufficient, as our soldiers and Marines are being forced to fight with one hand behind their backs. They are being killed because our government will not give them the tools they need. It is time for this President to make a decision: either commit to victory and provide our troops with the support they need to win the victory, or retreat and from the battle and give up any chance to win. Victory means the defeat and total destruction of the Taliban and radical Islam in Afghanistan, while retreat means that we sit back and wait for another 9/11. It is time Mr. President, make a choice."

I'm thinking of someone who maybe has some moral authority on this issue, maybe someone who served in Vietnam, was captured and held as a POW, maybe someone who is nationally recognized and generally respected even though he has been pretty douchey as a political figure. Somebody who claims to talk straight, or something like that.

108 Actually, if you really, really wanted to stop terrorism, you just threaten to nuke Mecca if there is one more terror attack on US citizens.  It would make it very difficult for all good muslims to make the Haij at least once in their lifetime as required if it is leveled and highly radioactive.

109 Much like the AZ 9/11 memorial, I believe this country will make it a Islamic crescent.

Posted by: randomguy

----------------

By the time our leadership regains enough courage and sense to build the memorial, the 52% mentality will long be gone. Think positive thoughts. (I know, it's hard.)

By the way, has McCain opened his mouth on this?

110 Elections have consequences.  Everyone on the left and too many on the right saw this guy as the embodiment of a new era of...er, something.  He's a narcissistic douchebag who never gave thought one to how he would govern.  His first thought coming into office was "OK, now how do I turn four years into eight?"  His every act is driven by this overarching goal.

He knows the clock starts ticking as soon as he's "officially" in receipt of the report.  He's painted himself into a corner on Afghanistan and knows he'll get pummeled by one side or another no matter what he decides.  But one thing we can be sure of is he won't make a decision base on what's right for national security.  He'll decide based on what's right for Barack Obama.

111 Ghost of Lee Atwater, gmta.

112

i want to see teh Sarah post on her facebook 'yo bambi, stop being a bitch'

it would be epic

113 o just told reporters at G-20, that he quote.....
"Is not interested in victory."

Linky please. Barry has said crap like this before, but as he himself said, I'm keeping score. I compile this stuff for future reference.

114 By the way, has McCain opened his mouth on this?

Yes, and rumor has it he caught three flies.

115

Actually, if you really, really wanted to stop terrorism, you just threaten to nuke Mecca if there is one more terror attack on US citizens

CDR, you're thinking like Reagan, cut, jibe, newsletter

116 I compile this stuff for future reference.
Posted by: George Orwell

Got a blog or website by any chance? I save stuff, too, and it's all random all over my hard drive and in my bookmarks.

117

@ 104

Arhooley, that is a damned good idea. We're eventually going to have to confront those bastards anyway, may as well do from a safe distance. Starting with Iran.

118 "They were..who we thought they were"

Obama had no intentions of fighting a war. No intentions of engaging the outer World.Praised for keeping Gates on, appointing Hillary to Sec. of Sate, it was all about "you guys handle it, I've got a socialist democracy to create here.. He doesn't care what happens outside our borders. His mission is inside our borders.

119
108 you just threaten to nuke Mecca...

Why do you hate Michigan?

120 ot but my hash describes this pathetic florida - kentucky game

121

i want to see teh Sarah post on her facebook 'yo bambi, stop being a bitch'

Posted by: navycopjoe

I think it will happen at the right time.

122 Linky please. Barry has said crap like this before, but as he himself said, I'm keeping score. I compile this stuff for future reference.

Posted by: George Orwell at September 26, 2009 07:22 PM (AZGON)

Here you go.

You Tube.

123 Obama bin lying again?

124

The biggest strategic mistake in Afghanistan was creation of that idiocy called the ISAF. A rotating 6 mo vanity command of no usefulness to anyone, except, in a round about way, the enemy in that AO.

There is zero functional value in sucking up to our "allies", in this or any other potential warfront. Most, if not all, of them are so horribly infested with that UN Peace Keeping mindset that they're far more harm to a war effort than aid.

The second biggest mistake was the rush to stand up a government. No way in hell that anyone but the most corrupt and compromised survive, either on site or in exile, in such situations. There's nothing of possible value in anyone who initially stands up for selection.

Of course, the enemy, in all it's branches (domestic, foreign in the AO and it's overt allies, foreign in the "Western" European AO and their naked hatred of all things American) would play their propaganda games, but they'll play them anyway. The shiteaters will simply change a few words in their song of disgust and accusation, that's all. There is no combination of actions or in-actions that will appease or quiet those scumbags.

All that said, I do fully believe that our military commanders do know what is required and are up to the task. Folk do love to get down on their knees to suck down and swallow whatever discord/discontent our enemy, both foreign and domestic, pumps into their open maw, and join the accusation train, but they're just the usual useful idiots. Not real difference between them and the enemy their weak fecklessness serves.

We've been here before and recently. We pulled through then and we can now. All that is necessary is for enough folk to realize that getting bent over the bench and punked into defeatism is just that, being punked.

The curse of Obama will pass. Endurance is what is required.

And to those who keep singing the Vietnam song, do remember, please...

The VC were destroyed, the NVA was destroyed, it wasn't until we abandoned the South Vietnamese through congressional dictate that the North was able to prevail.

That treachery is directly implicit in the loss of millions of lives and lead directly to the emboldening of our enemy for a full generation afterward.

Yeah, lets advocate that again.

125 Just in from The Sun....Terrorists invent the assbomb.

That is correct ... they stick it up their ass and blow it up. Tried to whack a Saudi prince. Shite splattered all over the walls. Kaploweee!

126

Huh.  No troll yet?  I guess all you military guys keep them from messing around here. ;-)

To those of you who served in the military and those with kids serving, thank you.  I'm sure you don't hear it enough.

127 113 o just told reporters at G-20, that he quote.....
"Is not interested in victory."

Linky please. Barry has said crap like this before, but as he himself said, I'm keeping score. I compile this stuff for future reference.

Weasel Zippers has it.

128 BackwardsBoy 117

I think the Afghanis would get their house in order real quick if they had ruthless Arab thugs on their asses instead of American Marines with their ROE and noble intentions.

129 Princess Obama was speaking about Iran when she said she was not interested in victory.

www.breitbart.tv/obama-on-nuke-conflict-with-iran-im-not-interested-in-victory/

130

107 It might be nice for some political figure to speak out . . . Somebody who claims to talk straight, or something like that.

He is a douche, but I have no doubt that he will speak out.  But the MSM will spin it to support their guy in the WH. 

We shouldn't even have to entertain 'give the military what it needs or pull out' as our options.  It should only be 'once we're in, we're in to win', so give our men and women whatever they need to finish the job.  Or we could simplify things by dropping a nuke on the Whatthefuckistan region that these terrorist shitbags hang out in.  (I can dream, can't I?)

131 Did someone say there is an ASSBOMB?

132

"drag them along on one but not the other"

so, Obama doesn't give a shit if our soldiers die?

screw NATO and our guys for politics?

We All know what's next.

 

133

Must run. Nuking Mecca in retaliation for any attack on us is another damned good idea.

Oh, and Roll Tide!

134

I've already gone through why this idea of reviewing the strategy is misleading at best.

DrewM., AoSHQ's resident military analyst. Lulz.

135
What happened to ACTING SWIFTLY & BOLDLY TO MEET THE CHALLENGES OF OUR GENERATION?

This rotten cocksucker Obama only acts urgently when he wants to raid our Treasury or take over entire industries.

136 Friggin trophy president sends my son into counterinsurgency combat in Afghanistan as an insincere political gesture and now will leave him there unsupported while he dithers? John Brown sure casts a long shadow.

137 @ CDR M at September 26, 2009 07:20 PM

Nuking Meca would be super-awesome. Never going to happen.

138 108 Actually, if you really, really wanted to stop terrorism, you just threaten to nuke Mecca if there is one more terror attack on US citizens.  It would make it very difficult for all good muslims to make the Haij at least once in their lifetime as required if it is leveled and highly radioactive.

Posted by: CDR M at September 26, 2009 07:20 PM (cvmTR)

All threats from the arab/persian/muslim world start and stop with control of the gulf oil fields.  Without the fields, they have nothing and can't represent a threat to anyone.  In fact, had we not allowed them to steal the fields in the nationalization waves of the 50's and 60's, they never would have been able to build all the mosques and madrassas through which they have spread their insane culture and twisted ideas.  If we took back the oil fields (as we should have after 9/11) then we basically wouldn't have to worry about that primitve sector of the world.  But, we don't have the intellectual integrity, nor the guts, to do what needs to be done, so we just limp along waiting to see if they can ever make good on their more severe threats.  It's crazy.

139 Speaking of assbombs...

140

Here you go.

You Tube.

Posted by: YIKES!

He looks like a deer caught in the headlights in that clip. He's panic-stricken. I'm giving more and more credence to this nervous breakdown theory. One day he'll cancel an appearance, then another, then another. He'll be carried out of the WH on a stretcher.

141
And not a single 'journalist' in the press has asked for details about Obama's missile shield in eastern Europe that supposed to be wonderful.

142 108 Actually, if you really, really wanted to stop terrorism, you just threaten to nuke Mecca if there is one more terror attack on US citizens.  It would make it very difficult for all good muslims to make the Haij at least once in their lifetime as required if it is leveled and highly radioactive.

Tom Tancredo made that very suggestion quite a while ago, not long after 9/11.  Everyone was aghast.  Personally, I think it has merits: we could tell the Saudis to tell all the world's Muslims that it's their religious duty to avoid terrorism in order to protect the Holy Places of Mecca and Medina.

Then I'd suggest nuking Medina first if a provocation occurs -- "That's one."

The only issue is that if we had to nuke Mecca on a second provocation -- "That's two" -- the only third strike option would be to engage in a sustained war on all 57 Islamic states.  That's a toughie.

143 I'd kind of like to have Michael Moore's take on the nuking of Mecca.

http://bit.ly/12Z6rq

144
by the way...

hey ARHOOLEY did you vote for that crazy-mayor-lady in Wellford?

145 “This is a dangerous world, and [Obama] isn’t remotely qualified to handle it. This guy has no clue, I promise you.”

146 What happened to ACTING SWIFTLY & BOLDLY TO MEET THE CHALLENGES OF OUR GENERATION?

Fierce urgency of now. Most Transparent Administration Evah. We're gonna bring back science. Time to end the petty partisanship of the past.

147 138 We could build nuclear power plants in abundance and make Mideast oil about as necessary as whale oil to the modern world economy. That'd accomplish the same thing.

148

Here you go.

You Tube.

Posted by: YIKES! at September 26, 2009 07:26 PM (tFrIQ)

 

LOL, did you read the first comment on that clip?  A bit heavy on the repetition, but still to the point!

149 I think instead of nuking Mecca right off the bat, I'd start with "The Holy City Of Qom", and the next round goes to Mecca/

150 140

He looks like a deer caught in the headlights in that clip. He's panic-stricken. I'm giving more and more credence to this nervous breakdown theory. One day he'll cancel an appearance, then another, then another. He'll be carried out of the WH on a stretcher.

"They never told me this job was going to be so hard.  Why didn't anybody tell me?  So... very... hard...."

151 Hell, I'd settle for taking out mosques in this country one by one.  With conventional weaponry, of course.

152 135
What happened to ACTING SWIFTLY & BOLDLY TO MEET THE CHALLENGES OF OUR GENERATION?

He is acting swiftly and boldly to meet the challenges of our generation. He just defines those challenges as a functioning economy, the capitalist system, prosperity that lifts all boats... trust me, when he's done, none of those things will be around to challenge our generation, or any future generation.

153 First math and now this!?!

154 140

He looks like a deer caught in the headlights in that clip. He's panic-stricken. I'm giving more and more credence to this nervous breakdown theory. One day he'll cancel an appearance, then another, then another. He'll be carried out of the WH on a stretcher.

150

"They never told me this job was going to be so hard.  Why didn't anybody tell me?  So... very... hard...."

Be still my heart.

155 There are over a billion Muslims on the planet. Where are the enormous and unending protests against mass murder done in the name of Allah? They know who amongst them is a radical, a murdering beast. Why do we have to capture or kill them? Why don't the peaceful, harmless, and indignant Muslims do it?

If someday Mecca is turned into a glow-in-the-dark parking lot, they will be to blame for that just as much as the terrorists.

156 BTW if your wondering where's honest cloud is. He's returned obsessing over the heath care thread or more like a scream fest.

157 hey ARHOOLEY did you vote for that crazy-mayor-lady in Wellford?

I don't live there. Am i missing a joke about my name? YOU DON'T THINK MY NAME IS DIGNIFIED??!!

158 151 Hell, I'd settle for taking out mosques in this country one by one.  With conventional weaponry, of course.

That is why the Islamofascist threat is so dangerous.  If it's not stopped in Afghanistan and Pakistan and Iran, if it's allowed to spawn more and more of the folks like we just saw in New York and Denver and Springfield and Dallas and Alabama, then the American people may come around to wanting to gut the First Amendment so that we can expel Muslims and Arabs and South Asians.

And once you open that particular can of worms, all of our freedoms end up as worm food.

159 75 nervous breakdown
Posted by: Methos
---------------------------
I've been seeing this possibility kicked around a lot on the internets. I'd like a thread to discuss it sometime.

I remember seeing a picture of him just after emerging from a briefing from W. and his people during the transition. He looked like somebody had run over his puppy. The guy had no idea what he had gotten into and he is under more stress than he could ever imagine. Probably smoking like a chimney too. A nervous breakdown wouldn't surprise me in the least.

160 I hate this fucker. My 17 yo daughter just finished basic training and is now at AIT. She's learning how to repair Blackhawks, then going to jump school. I wish she had a real CiC. Not President Waffles and his sidekick Turkey bacon.

161

The only real enemy that the Libtard Democrats acknowledge and are willing to fight are conservatives. We are the real enemy to them.

Bastards.

162

I think it's instructive, whenever speaking about the muslim world, to keep in mind that THEY PRAY TO FRIGGIN' ROCKS!!  The holiest objects in their insane ideology are ROCKS!!

 

When we talk about Stone-Age, we ain't kidding.

Sorry, but I just had to throw that in.  I have never gotten over the shock of learning that Mecca is built around a big rock, as is the dome of the rock, as are other "holy rocks" in the muslim world.  It could be worse, I guess; they could pray to ... algae, or something ...

163 155 There are over a billion Muslims on the planet. Where are the enormous and unending protests against mass murder done in the name of Allah? They know who amongst them is a radical, a murdering beast. Why do we have to capture or kill them? Why don't the peaceful, harmless, and indignant Muslims do it?

If someday Mecca is turned into a glow-in-the-dark parking lot, they will be to blame for that just as much as the terrorists.

They don't do it because the mass murderers who kill in the name of Allah are far quicker to kill fellow Muslims than to kill infidels, especially when they can use the justification that any Muslim who would rat out a Muslim mass murderer is an infidel himself.

164
Are we even going to survive until the '12 elections?

165 Dammit all the holy hell.  If I could lock our son up in a basement I would.  He's been put off for Marine boot camp twice, and is now "promised" to go Oct. 12.  He wants to drive armored vehicles.  The Piece of Crap in Chief does not deserve the young men and women serving under him.  The left ridiculed Bush because he wouldn't play gold during a time of war.  We've got a POS who not only golfs every fucking weekend, but goes on a late night "comedy" show. 

God help us all.  And especially our military in harm's way.

166 Got a blog or website by any chance? I save stuff, too, and it's all random all over my hard drive and in my bookmarks.

Not really, but I keep stuff in a directory with significant file titles to remind me what is in there.

Just a taste of one file, full of the Elegant President's gaffes, did you guys hear about this one? It really takes the cake, Mr. Post-Racial Pezzydent:

Last March, the Chicago Tribune reported this little-noticed nugget about a fake autobiographical detail in Obama’s “Dreams from My Father:”
“Then, there’s the copy of Life magazine that Obama presents as his racial awakening at age 9. In it, he wrote, was an article and two accompanying photographs of an African-American man physically and mentally scarred by his efforts to lighten his skin. In fact, the Life article and the photographs don’t exist, say the magazine’s own historians.”

167 It's more disheartening than I thought it would be.  And I knew they'd do this...which is also quite sad.

To both anticipate withdrawal and know it will hurt...and it end up being worse than envisioned, really sucks.

It also doesn't help one's sense personal security, that is for sure.  We cannot leave...but they will. 

168 Im to lazy to do the tinyurl thing,but todays New York Post political cartoon deals with this subject and is spot on! Seriously check it out

169 Right you are, LGoPs.

http://bit.ly/Aesj0

170 #165

gold = golf

Crap.

171 162

Sorry, but I just had to throw that in.  I have never gotten over the shock of learning that Mecca is built around a big rock, as is the dome of the rock, as are other "holy rocks" in the muslim world.  It could be worse, I guess; they could pray to ... algae, or something ...

The square black building in Mecca called the Kaaba was built to house a meteorite.  The pagans used to come from far and wide to look at it and (I believe) pray to it, and one of Mohammed's objectives in conquering Mecca was to get control of it and the admission fees that it commanded.

IIRC.

172 I have never gotten over the shock of learning that Mecca is built around a big rock

-----------------

Same here. The whole Muslim world bowing toward a fucking asteroid, milling around it in the Grand Mosque like a thousand sperms around a big dead egg.

173

I have an idea for the White House as it reviews our strategy in Afghanistan. How about stealing a line from Reagan and going with "We win, they lose"

I know it's kind of complex but I'm one of those suffistikated and nooanced kind of shlubs.

174
I was a plover.

Roll with it.

175 i hate that stupid sonofabitch. putting the lives of our troops in grave danger as he stands around and tries to look thoughtful and important.

176 Woops, meteorite. (Even worse.)

177 129

Stealing your post and dropping lt like illegal ordnance around the web--

accrediting eman

178 Obama has only one target in his sights, and that is the economic destruction of the United States. All other issues like foreign policy are secondary. He hands off these nagging problems to Hillary, Biden, Et all, and they will not go away. The Democrats and the far left Liberals cannot find common ground. The Far left Liberals are bulldogs and will not let go until the issue is resolved in their favor. He keeps voting present, hoping these issues will go away. No wonder he has his "headlights" look. He is also getting real tired of the "GITMO" game.

179

Sorry to go OT, but I am still laughing over this email I just got from Organizing for Obama America (emphasis mine):

In many ways, the fight for health insurance reform comes down to a battle over information. The more people know about how broken the system is and the President's plan to fix it, the more they want change. But there are an awful lot of lies to cut through, and a whole lot of truth to get out.

So today, we're proud to announce a powerful new way for you to help: Organizing for America's Health Reform Video Challenge.

This is your chance -- you ingenious, insightful, funny people out there -- to make a 30-second ad telling the story about why the status quo has got to go, or explaining how the Obama plan will ensure we get the secure, quality care we need without breaking the budget.

Oh, yeah, this will do the trick. 

180
and speaking of prosperity that lifts all boats...

that dummy with the nice big tits, Maria Bartoromo, on CNBC just sad there and nodded while that racist cocksucker, Lula from Brazil, bragged about his socialist economy.

YOU CAN'T SUSTAIN A SOLVENT ECONOMY ON A FANTASY OF 'BOTTOM-UP' GROWTH.

181 168 Im to lazy to do the tinyurl thing,but todays New York Post political cartoon deals with this subject and is spot on! Seriously check it out

The Uncle Sam one?

182 We shouldn't even have to entertain 'give the military what it needs or pull out' as our options.  It should only be 'once we're in, we're in to win', so give our men and women whatever they need to finish the job.
--------------------------------
Posted by: Miss Fluffy McNutter at September 26, 2009 07:30 PM (xMSXs)

I completely agree with you and Grimmy @124. I don't like the idea of pulling out, not because, "We're America and we have to win," but because failure to secure victory here is going to come back to haunt us. In addition, a failure to win this would mean that all of those men who have already died in Afghanistan did so in vain. But at the same time I don't want to see our men continue to get killed for lack of support or lack of effort by their CINC in trying to finish the job.

And I also think that instead of couching this as "Victory or Retreat," it should be termed "Victory or Surrender." Americans don't like the idea of retreat, but they will not tolerate surrender. Force Jugears into one of two boxes, Victory or Surrender. And that certain someone should take a page from Cato's book and make that damn statement on the Senate floor every single day until something is done.

I don't want any more men killed or maimed for lack of political will, but I also know that quitting is going to lead to bad things down the road. Unfortunately, I predict that the President will continue to vote present and allow more and more to die men in order to turn public opinion decisively against the campaign, thereby allowing him to save face and pull out. Really, all he wants to do at this point is find a way to get out without suffering political harm. Worthless, cowardly bastard.

183 Barack Obama  Commander-in-Chief of the United States Armed Forces....LuLZ    ...oh wait...oh SHIT  *gulp*

184 I had a dream last night that General McChrystal took over DC in a coup, held tribunals, and permanently dispatched any and all that voted Democrat and/or were identified Muslims. Then, and only then, he gave the reigns over to Michael Bolton to re-build our government.

Damn if I didn't wake up with a woody too!
 

185
Spine of Steel.  Patriot.  Eye off the ball of Afghanistan.  Fuck you barry.

186
Obama has adopted the exact same position as Lyndon Johnson, another failed liberal who believed he was better suited at target selection over North Vietnam than the Air Force target analyzing specialist.  I recall reading in Stars  & Stripes how President Johnson was utilizing new strategy and techniques that were going to win the war. 

Unfortunately for the writers at S&S who were force fed the MACV line of imminent victory, those of us in country who had spent most of our formative years in RVN had different opinions.  We were correct, and the professionals were wrong. 

Obama and his minions don't believe McChrystal is capable of conducting a war in keeping with their liberal priorities.  McChrystal is attempting to structure the force to win, whereas, Obama and his advisors are seeking a way to extricate themselves from Afghanistan without criticism from both internal and external forces. 

Impossible to do the impossible, but never let it be said that a liberal won't sacrifice men for the greater good of liberalism.  Either structure it for the win according to the general in charge, or terminate his services and put your own butt boy in command, or get the hell out. 

187 Strange that the Federal Government is exploding in size and yet we cut over 300 border patrol agents.  Hmmmm.

188 Stuiec  No thats not it   It should be online for todays edition.I just have the hard copy

189 Sad, but you are probably right Fish.  Well stated.

190 He looks like a deer caught in the headlights in that clip. He's panic-stricken. I'm giving more and more credence to this nervous breakdown theory.

That is in fact my fantasy, my dream scenario for the ultimate demise of this sociopathic crypto-fascist demagogue. A full blown gibbering meltdown during a press conference would be the best way to eliminate this cancer from the body politic. Some bootlicking presstitute asks him about green jobs, or something, and Barry starts with his normal platitudes about "moving forward" and "now is the time for the future," and then begins rambling (and we know he rambles and filibusters in his answers already) about fresh air and shining seas. He starts describing the clean sensation of standing in a waterfall, and how much power there is in falling water, running down to the seas, which wouldn't rise if we weren't out of balance but the tides will not save us and only wind power can pump the fluid of democracy into the reservoir of community service, like he has done in Iran and Chicago, when the pressures of ping-pong table lobbyists and having two daughters were the worst things in life but he is happy to have such a blessed family that is just like millions of others in North Korea and France with its great white way, but not white racially, and China has a wall that is like a road paved with our Treasury notes, and very good wagyu beef comes from those Asiatics, have you tried any?

A guy can dream.

191 Crap./ Make that John Bolton. I am gay too.

192 Since so many people are posting about their kids in the military and our sucky CinC, I'll throw in a little anecdote here.

Last night I went to a retirement party for a Marine. At the time his retirement was approved, George W. Bush was the CinC, but I don't know what the bureaucratic delays are, and his retirement orders were signed by Obama. When they were read out loud to him by the gunny who's replacing him and the words "Commander in Chief Barack Obama" were uttered, the entire room winced. Really, THE ENTIRE ROOM, kids, friends, parishioners, coworkers, those words were such a pill.

193 They're going to attach the troop support to Obsmacare to get it passed.

194
why would we want that mullet-wearing singer to be president?

195 Isn't this week the week the last of the Obama ordered mini surge troops arrived in country? 

NOW we're rethinking the plan? 

Sheesh.

196 194
would probably be better than what we have now.

197 I'm so damn angry I could tear someone's head off.

We have a CinC who's never had an actual job.

We have a CinC whose connections in his private life wouldn't even get him security clearance in the White House.

We have a CinC who is a pure narcissist, who truly believes he is better than those he serves.

We have a CinC who golfs every Sunday, treats AF One like his personal toy, and has no freaking idea about the bravery young people have who go into the service of their country.  I believe, faced with real personal danger, he'd run and hide like a scared child.  And possibly abandon his own family to do so.  In short, I think he's a COWARD.

198 Arhooley, I've sat through a few those already.  I'm hoping I can retire after this term is up and we have a new CINC.  If it's the same one, I'm not having that read at my retirement.  Fuck that.

199 NATO/Euro countries need to double down in Afghanistan. The Europeans need to field an Army equal to the American presence currently on the ground in Afghanistan. No hedging. The ROE are standardized and uniform for all forces in-country.

If Europeans won't help then we pull tent-stakes and leave.

But by all means - Do not, under any circumstance, allow Iraq to fail. We double down and hold that country at all costs.

200

mr pissed, i am amazed no one caught that before you realized your error

epic fail dude

201 Barak Obama is a yellow-bellied coward.

202 200

mr pissed, i am amazed no one caught that before you realized your error

epic fail dude

Posted by: navycopjoe at September 26, 2009 08:06 PM (Q2tkO)

I was thinking of a different Bolton!!  Missed the Micheal part!!

203

cdr, i feel you

in fact, i never got my retirement letter

when sarah gets sworn in, i'm going to request through the vfw that she signs it

204 Good for you, CDR M!

205 203

cdr, i feel you

in fact, i never got my retirement letter

when sarah gets sworn in, i'm going to request through the vfw that she signs it

Posted by: navycopjoe at September 26, 2009 08:08 PM (Q2tkO)

I hear you Chief.  Gotta survive the next 3.5 years first!

206

you know damn well if we made that mistake we would get hammered with the volleyball scene/village people jokes for hours

haters, they're all navy haters

207 We have a CinC who's never had an actual job.

Look up "ejectejecteject seeing the unseen part 1" on google to find Bill Whittle's massive, nuclear takedown of the chickenhawk argument. I cite this only to agree... Even with all of W's many flaws, he actually flew a fighter jet, and Whittle's piece is absolutely ruthless in showing how serious a business flying a fighter is. No one who is a coward or a dummy could ever do it.

I maintain that the instant George W. Bush closed that canopy and took off on the first of his many solo hours in an F-102, it is quite impossible that he was either an idiot or a coward.

208 You know things aren't going well when we sit through intel briefs every week and everyone just shakes their heads when we hear what the WH or State are saying or doing.  I'm still surprised we have cooperation with Honduras on drug interdiction missions.

209

Gotta survive the next 3.5 years first!

my last three were rough but much easier being enlisted

as an officer doing the whole political thing, i feel for you

210 ADM Stavridis has his own blog.  Might mosey on over there and ask him a question on this.  He is known as a straight shooter and someone going places.  I hope he is going places because he stays true to his core and not turn into a yes man for the President.

211 Impossible to do the impossible, but never let it be said that a liberal won't sacrifice men for the greater good of liberalism. 

Posted by: Fish at September 26, 2009 07:59 PM (FnA4R)

How sadly true. 

212

Sooo, we're gonna get "free" anthrax vaccine (healthcare), but not go after the pricks who are trying to kill us with it?

Hopefully they'll use the money pit that is the USPO, and the shit will go bad before it gets delivered to the wrong persons.

And I'm sure that all the justifiedly,  pissed off soldiers, will adjust to barrys new world order upon returning home. That's not a threat, or besmurchment of the character of our armed services personnel. Yeah, a whole new class of donk voters./sarc

213 209

Gotta survive the next 3.5 years first!

my last three were rough but much easier being enlisted

as an officer doing the whole political thing, i feel for you

Posted by: navycopjoe at September 26, 2009 08:11 PM (Q2tkO)

Hah, being a CDR on Staff is like being a glorified Ensign!!  Lot's of spreadsheets and powerpoints and no get out of jail free cards for being an Ensign!  I miss the days of being a Mission Commander and living and dying by the flight schedule!!

214 Barry Hussein "mmmm, mmmmm, mmmm" Obama doesn't love this country.  I suspected it during his campaign, but I'm damned sure of it now.  His kowtowing to the Muslim community, declaring that the U.S. is not a Christian nation, and that we have one of the "largest" muslim populations in the world, was a huge WTF? moment for me. 

Have he and Meanchelle visited the sick and injured troops?  And if so, was Meanchelle able to wipe the bitch face off long enough to offer comfort to the brave young men and women?  I see her thinking, "Damn.  Wish we were on Date Night to San Francisco or something".

My anger is giving me a headache.

215

Sooo, we're gonna get "free" anthrax vaccine

dude, seriously, not to sound like a little bi**h but those shots hurt, not sting hurt but like fall down the fucking ladder and roll around screaming in agony pain

shot #3 = childbirth pain

216 The Big O has no love for the military.  They are people of immense integrity, sense of duty and sacrifice.  They are everything that the Big O ISN'T.  They are, by and large, the last bastion of integrity and lack of corruption in this government.  He has no intention of implementing McCrystal's recommendations.  That would alienate the Left.  He will do like he does with things that he doesn't like:  he will shelve it.  Ball is in the military's court.  He will do what he can behind the scenes to grind the military down and reduce readiness and morale. This country, through actions of the Big O, has sent a clear message of indecision and weakness in the months since his inauguration.  This country is in deep sh*t, and getting deeper by the day.

217 CDR M   Do officers who wish to attain Flag Rank, still take a semister of Constitutional History? Pass it of course. This is/was a prerequiste years ago.

218 How do you say "uncle" in arabic? (Properly conjugated for the "let me be clear" preposition.

Thanks.

BHO

219 So, I guess we agree it's kind of sucky to have an America-hating Communist as President.

Luckily, he will soon suffer a complete mental and emotional collapse and be carted off to a loony bin before he can destroy our Republic.

220 When the Taliban get hold of nukes from either Iran or, God forbid, "Pokeestahn", the world will become a very interesting place.  Thankfully, Israel has balls that Dear Leader doesn't.  And even (I never thought I'd type these words) France. 

I believe the ramping up of failed terrorist attacks in the U.S. is directly because we have a preening pussy in the WH.  It's a matter of time before an attack gets through.  Oops.  I forgot, the War on Terror is no more.  It's the Age of Unicorns now.

221 Man, time for the war revolution to shit or get off the pot. It's like surgery.. you don't want to go, but you have to get it done; so just get it over with already so we can get back to normal.

222 Dammit! the ny post doesnt seem to have that online  wtf   .Ill keep looking for it

223

Just a bit of a reminder to all here.

 

Our enemy, both foreign and domestic, also read such posts and comment threads as this. They have demonstrated themselves to be very adept at taking all the vomited up frustrations and agonies splattered in such discussions, enhancing them, magnifying them, and feeding them right back to the discussion stream to aid themselves in their goal of causing decay in the homefront's will to fight.

 

Semper Fi, Mutherfookers.

 

224 @223, they've just emboldened mine. So much so that I am raising my sons accordingly, with a keen understanding of the Constitution and non-revisionist history.

225 I haven't had time to read all the comments, so this has most likely already been said.
   If we cut and run now, every Afghanistan national that has stood with us will be slaughtered as an apostate or a sympathizer of the former conquerors, (US). 
That is intellectual honesty, just as saying the sky is blue to someone who is colorblind is honesty whether that person can see it or not. 
   After the Taliban and AQ retake A-stan, they will then liberate their neighbors in Pakistan. As sure as the sky is blue and the grass is green. Even if you're colorblind.
   When that happens, AQ will be in possession of nukes. They will use those nukes, because they want to erase all knowledge of anything that has occurred since Mohamed.  They destroyed all the written knowledge that they could the last time they were in power, and it took us this long to get back.
   We can pull out now, we can pull back inside our borders, inside our states, inside our towns and inside our bomb shelters, but don't ever think we can just call time out and pick up the game later. Now is the time to act.  If we fail in this now, we only embolden and empower our enemy.  Much better to bury them.


 

226

225  agree with one difference

When that happens, AQ will be in possession of nukes. They will use those nukes

india will never let that happen

227

It's a matter of time before an attack gets through.

Our police and Federal Agencies are doing yeoman's work in preventing an attack, and you are unfortunately correct that it will in all probability happen no matter the security.  It will be devastating to the economy, dependent on which sector is the target.

The Obama recession could well become the Obama depression if transportation or some highly visible landmark such as Golden Gate Bridge or the St. Louis Arch is the target. 

I trust that if we are hit again, the government has a master plan for deporting thousands of Muslims for their own protection, closing of all Mosques and Muslim schools.  It will be impossible to protect all Muslims, and their best choice would be to leave the country. 

228 226
Only if India strikes Pakistan before it is fully liberated. If AQ gets the nukes before they are destroyed, they will use them.

229 An obama plan for after an attack? Like "Domestic Contingency Operations"?

The only terrorist plan Team 0bama would have is one to airdrop millions of "Islam is a Religion of Peace" leaflets with his ugly mug on them over every city.

That and round up and jail everyone with a Don't Tread on Me bumper sticker.

230 217 CDR M   Do officers who wish to attain Flag Rank, still take a semister of Constitutional History? Pass it of course. This is/was a prerequiste years ago.

Posted by: mystry at September 26, 2009 08:22 PM (kmgIE)

No idea!!  I'm not going for Flag so I haven't looked at the prereq's.  I know they go to a lot of schools.

231 Well, Obama is giving a big "fuck you" to our soldiers, but then again that's what I expected from the AOTUS. 

How anyone from the left, including our resident trolls, can rationalize this, is beyond me. They simply hate our country and those who serve it.

232 225
Take that up with the White House, maybe.  We can't actually force Obama to do his job and win the war.  The question is how we approach protecting our troops from him now that he has signalled the intention to lose.

233 Get the f*ck out of here!  WE'RE the REAL Obama army.

By the way, that's Michelle on the far left.  Before she grew that ginormous ass, of course.

http://bit.ly/GOtfY

234 BarriO reminds me of a cocaine addict.

spit

235

Those who seek to delay war, do so for the benefit of others.

Macheivelli

236 That'd be beautiful, Fish. 

They'd probably give 'em one way tickets on Virgin for London.  Hell, London's half muslim already.

237 Um, when does Odumbass begin recruiting "troops" for his Civilian Militia?  Or is he just cocaine addled and insane?

238 My dream is to someday carve that stupid rock into a statue of a fat hog taking a sloppy dump on the various icons of Islam, then show it to all those cave-dwelling inbreeds just before I drop it into the Mariana Trench with a few dozen pounds of explosives packed in the middle.

Never gonna happen. *sigh*

239 Posted by: Browndog at September 26, 2009 08:22 PM (lPTCP)

The answer to your question might seem to be that gurgling squeal that Nick Berg let out when they sawed off his head. 
I personally think he was trying to scream FUCK YOU GOATFUCKERS!

God keep him and burn them.

240 232

We'd better find a way to tell this CIC how to win the war, because pulling out means more troops and other citizens dying than staying in.

I told you so later won't mean a thing.

241 It's not about "I told you so," it's about preserving the possibility of a response three and a half years from now when we have an American back in the White House.  All the pressure we can apply is not going to make him do what he doesn't want to do.  He won.  The pressure can only serve to hasten the day when he does what he wants, and that's pulling the troops out.  We have to make our choices from the ones available to us.

I don't look forward to the next casualty event.  But it was inevitable when Obama became president.  What we can positively effect is his legislative agenda, because it's at least possible to bend enough members of Congress to our will to stop it.

242 It sounds like Obama is getting advice from Ayers.

243 #238

As Islam is anti-representatational, it as no icons per se. That however does not mean that we can't make our own.

244 HAS no icons

245

As much as I think the Afghan people have the same right to exist as any other people, if their expression of that right is to train and arm jihadists, to be a toxic and spreading tumor, I would regretfully but firmly support their eradication, if need be, to preserve the safety and security of everyone else.

So you're cool with genocide. Nice to know. Maybe after we're done wiping out the Afghans, we can rid ourselves of the pesky Jews.

You need to take your meds. Seriously.

246 Methos,
Don't you remember the helicopters evacuating Saigon? Can't you still feel those peoples' fingers clinging to the landing gear until they fell off? Can't you remember the millions killed and lost at sea afterwards? If we hasten his ambitions, we hasten the repeat of that!  If all we can do is delay his pullout until after the 2010 elections, we and freedom win.
  If we join the crowd and holler to pull out now, we are as guilty of snatching defeat from the jaws of victory as Jane Fonda or Walter Cronkite.  We can't enable defete.

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248 @ Milesdei at September 26, 2009 09:23

Islam has no icons? We are talking about a big, black rock in the desert these idiots bow to and kiss like St. Peter's toe at the Basilica, and you have balls to claim Islam is "anti-representatational?"

Tell you what, go count up all the "most holy places" of Islam, then come tell me how "anti-representatational" those "holy" goat-trod dirt piles really are. I'll be peeing on a koran while you make your list.

249

You go to war with the President you have, not the President you want or need.

250 Don't you remember the helicopters evacuating Saigon? Can't you still feel those peoples' fingers clinging to the landing gear until they fell off? Can't you remember the millions killed and lost at sea afterwards? If we hasten his ambitions, we hasten the repeat of that!  If all we can do is delay his pullout until after the 2010 elections, we and freedom win.

Bzzt.  We have to delay his pullout through the 2012 election.  What do you think a Republican house would do that would force him to fight like we men it?  And please note that McChrystal's request warns of failure within a year.  He doesn't think we can ride it out until the 2010 elections.

If you've got a plan for getting Obama to stop sabotaging the war effort, then do tell.  But  at this point all I see on the table is arguing over how many more of our guys die before the inevitable awfulness you've described.

I was against fleeing Iraq for the same reasons you indicate.  Tell me the strategy for shaming Obama into winning, and I'll support it.

251 "Luckily, he will soon suffer a complete mental and emotional collapse and be carted off to a loony bin before he can destroy our Republic."

It's truly a sign of the times that expecting this makes you an optimist.

252 Methos,
I believe that the worst will come after we admit defeat.  I will not believe that things will be just as bad if we keep our people over there.

This is the most poll driven administration that has ever resided in the White House.

If you don't think we can do anything until 2012, you just as well jump on the one's bandwagon, because you ain't doing shit to keep his stuff from happening.

If I had some fool-proof method to make this guy do what's right, I could have guessed the markets and be a millionaire right now.  I don't and  I ain't.  One thing I do know, is if you quit, you're whipped. If you keep on fighting you have a chance to win.

We cannot afford to join with the party of defeat. We need to keep up resistance, because if we lose there, we lose.




 

253

Suppose that we were to score OBL, Ayman alZ., and Mullah Omar by the end of the year. Would this constitute victory in Afghanistan?

I think so. We may need to score another 10 or so scalps, but no matter. Without scoring these three, we either lose or cannot leave. Everything else is humanitarian goodness; stuff that helps us, because a hostile population would be very much worse, but not really necessary to victory.

There’s no reason that we have to rebuild Afghanistan in order to win and be seen to win. But we can't afford to be seen to lose.

The problem is that Obama seems to have no Afghanistan plan, and never did. Getting the Three Amigos is an objective, and Obama used it to get elected. Now, Obama seems to be backing away. Too late, the set cannot be broken up.

I think it likely that all 3 targets are in Pakistan. We need to find a current reason or two to just roll into Pakistan, turn a few cities upside down and see what runs for cover. Sending in a few agents, perhaps posing as Iranian businessmen or agents, to stir up trouble in Quetta, just might get the Baluchis riled up enough to flush some of out targets into the open.

254 So THIS is where all the assholes hang out.

255 One thing I can guarantee to anyone reading this thread. The primary target of any islamic, or fascist terrorist will NEVER be the current US CIC. Being that he is in fact their CIC, and not ours. On the bright side, with the discovery of uranium in Hugoland, there will be nukes right in our back yard. Russia couldn't do it in '62, but no one will stop Cuba from having nukes as long as the mulatto mendacity is POTUS.

256 We rushed into several 'big assed' initiatives because it/they are a crisis...how many times we've heard that word...

Yet now with respect to Afghanistan the savior and king of men wants to 'review all options and decide then which direction to take'.

Wha? I mean, c'mon already...

It really does go to show us that they had an agenda before taking office and it had everything to do with the transformation of America.

Guess the wunderkind forgot the rest of the planet.

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258 I wish I was wrong, and them again maybe I am - I truly believe that the ONLY reason the WH is stalling is to leverage the request for troops for passing lame ass healthcare.

So they will wager our troops success and possibly live and injury for free healthcare. DESPICABLE! 

If i am right I hope someone in congress has testes enough to call em out!

259 Perhaps he's just softening them up before the overland invasion of Pahk-eeee-stahn?

260 Feckless crapweasels, all!

261 #259, you got it right. With the constant drumming of the cost of healthcare Obama is faced with the same crisis LBJ had with Vietnam. LBJ could never resolve the cost of Vietnam vs his war on poverty. Obama has his war on healthcare. Both dithered while brave men died. Of course, Obama's distaste for victory in general is the only difference. In fact, he has just stated in Pittsburg (G20) as not looking for "victory" over Iran.

262 225 I haven't had time to read all the comments, so this has most likely already been said.
   If we cut and run now, every Afghanistan national that has stood with us will be slaughtered as an apostate or a sympathizer of the former conquerors, (US).
That is intellectual honesty, just as saying the sky is blue to someone who is colorblind is honesty whether that person can see it or not.

Point taken. That's an acceptable loss in my eyes. Give them US citizenship then. Better those we can trust having it than many that have it now.

   After the Taliban and AQ retake A-stan, they will then liberate their neighbors in Pakistan. As sure as the sky is blue and the grass is green. Even if you're colorblind.

Quite the leap in logic, that we can remove our ground troops, and suddenly they will liberate Pakistan. There are intermediate steps we can take, regardless of IF YOU CAN SEE THEM.

   When that happens, AQ will be in possession of nukes. They will use those nukes, because they want to erase all knowledge of anything that has occurred since Mohamed.  They destroyed all the written knowledge that they could the last time they were in power, and it took us this long to get back.

I get it, there Islamists. All this conjecture you are putting out there is highly theoretical fear mongering, and ifg you don't think we can bomb this place back to the stone age prior to that occurring, you are plain wrong buddy.

   We can pull out now, we can pull back inside our borders, inside our states, inside our towns and inside our bomb shelters, but don't ever think we can just call time out and pick up the game later. Now is the time to act.  If we fail in this now, we only embolden and empower our enemy.  Much better to bury them.

Retreat! Retreat! /sarcasm.

You are ignoring the fundamental underlying problem that governs your whole argument for staying there and increasing our troop levels. Obama will not allow victory in Afghanistan by virtue of his incompetence alone. You could ascribe other motives to him if you want, but incompetence is demonstrable.

Now or never? Actually, why don't you explain the URGENCY of staying, or shut the hell up.

Obama will leave soldiers there and do nothing to increase their levels when it's important, let them be killed at levels that are avoidable, and then do whatever is politically expedient with the full support of the worthless POS democrat party.

263 I think President Obama's holding Afghanistan hostage for Health Care.

264 Holy Frack! And THIS is how the Liberals fight the "Good War," the one "worth fighting."

BYW, has Obama captured the Tallest Man in Pakistan, yet?

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