1 They never meant it. They never mean anything they say. Unless, of course, they "We want everyone to do and think as we say." But they'll never say that.

2 Well, in fairness, the opposition to the other "bad" (eg Iraq) war was just political posturing as well.

Nobody to my knowledge has called President Obama on NOT bringing home all the troops from Iraq already, something that he promised to have done by now when he was a candidate.

In fact, pretty much nobody is making ANY noises about Iraq now at all.

3 Liberals lie, Obama lies, his as seen on TV doesn't work in America.

The world is watching and the world sees the truth.

4 And I was first, and you're all a bunch of planet-rapists.

5 Gosh. I'm shocked. Who'da thunk.

6 Well, I for one am shocked!

7 Of course, they're all gung ho about fighting the very real war against expansionist block quotes.

8 Mission Accomplished!

9 Congressional Medals of Honor

The Medal of Honor (as awarded through an act of congress)

It's not congresses medal, it is a mobile standard of the US Ensign worn by an individual who best represented all that America stands for in war.

Not "congressional medal of honor."  but "The Medal of Honor."

10 Surprise, surprise, surprise!

11 @ FireHorse at September 22, 2009 02:26 PM

People who post first are the most racist of all the racists who post here. You're like an entire inbred klan of hillbillies in one dood.

12 I'm shocked they would admit it.  Why not pull out the old "We DID support it but Boooosh messed it up so bad we can't support it now." chestnut?

13 It's always the same with leftards, lie you fat ass off to get elected then show your true colors, piss yellow. Great tap dancing Jebus I hate these weasels.

14

... you're all a bunch of planet-rapists.

Posted by: FireHorse at September 22, 2009 02:26 PM (Vl5GH)

 

You say that like it's a bad thing.

 

(And she was askin for it...)

15 Remember when the Commiecrats turned Dhimmicrats claimed that Iraq was the "bad" war, diverting attention from Afghanistan the "good" war? And that Al Quaeda (sp?) wasn't in Iraq?

Well, the fact was that Al Quaeda was in Iraq. (Now Zarquawi and his goons are wiped out). The fact is also that Iraq was and is a cakewalk compared to Afghanistan. Iraq had and has an educated population, oil revenue, and an even more strategic location that Afghanistan, the back country, ever will be.

Remember when the Commiecrats turned Dhimmicrats claimed the divisions between ethnic groups in Iraq were too steep to deal with? The fact is that the ethnic and tribal divisions in Afghanistan are even more severe. Indeed, the only reason the country has the boundaries that it does was that it was a neutral buffer zone between then czarist Russia and then British India.

Perhaps the lines on the map need to be redrawn. That might be easier than trying to build a nation where none really existed.

16 Also, despite his rhetoric to that effet, nobody who was paying attention thought for a second that Obama, the same guy who was in favor of an immediate unilateral pullout from Iraq, was going to actually escalate the war in Afghanistan.

I'm actually wondering why people think he's inclined to do it now.

If he puts in more troops, he'll "own" the war. . .something he CLEARLY has no stomach for.

He's left with maintaining the status quo (which is a losing strategy), or pulling out altogether.

17

You know, if the whole country was made up of these cowardly little dweebs, you could invade it with a pickup truck load of bulldykes armed with willow switches.

18 The Left was screaming "vietnam" the minute that troops began actions in October of 2001, and since it wasn't over by November, they were screaming quagmire. It wasn't until Bush began preparing for Iraq that suddenly Afghanistan became the uber important war to be won.

Same shit, different day

19 The candidate who said our troops were just "air raiding villages and killing civilians" never gave a damn about the war.  We all knew it.  It's win at any costs for them, because they know they'll never get called on it.

20 The comments on that Hullabaloo blog entry are, uh, interesting to say the least...

21

POS POTUS lie? 

*Ghasp*

Nohhh!

22 Disgusting.

23

But none of us should forget that it was a political strategy, not a serious foreign policy.

 

Nobody believed these lying sacks of shit to begin with. Hell, The Dems voted FOR military operations in Iraq in October and just as soon as the votes in Nov were completed they all came out in mass against it. They knew that if they showed their true colors just before an election they would get their asses handed to them.

 

That was the origin of the infamous “I voted for it before I was against it”.

24 anyone remember when the NYT and other leftwing medai began saying "quagmire," all at once, in Afghanistan, fourth day of the war?

Remember?

The troops had to stop fighting and advancing because of a ... sandstorm. 24 hours.

a 24 hour sandstorm = quagmire.

I remember Brit Hume humiliating juan williams over that. Williams was defending the Leftwing Media's repetition of "quagmire" as justified.

"Juan, it was a SANDSTORM," Brit said. In THAT WAY he had of saying stuff.

25

Now, if we can just re-define patriotism to supporting Obamacare we'll be golden.

26 Ace , you mean iraq?

27 I guess the moron doesn't make the connection that we try to teach every five year old,if you say things you don't mean eventually nobody believes anything you say.

28

@ looking closely,

Cindy Sheehan, for all of her kookiness, has been consistent on this.  She followed Obambi to his Hyanisport vacation the same way that she followed  Bushitler to Crawford. 

There was no there there because of, wait for it, wait... media bias.  She was a cudgel to beat Bush.  They wouldn't dare us it against Glass JObama.

29 Glenn Greenwald?  Why isn't he the same fabulous blogger who has a New York Times Best Selling Book on the Bush Administration and its abuses of power. And he has one of the most-read blogs on the Interent, after 9 months of blogging. And Senators read from his blog at Senate hearings and his posts lead to front-page news stories in major newspapers.

And isn't he the same blogger who has the softest, most velvety rectum tissue combined with buttocks of tempered steel?

Good day to you, sir!

30

Will they be calling him "BarracksHitlersaneObomber" any time soon?

31

 a pickup truck load of bulldykes armed with willow switches.

where do i sign up?

32

I love how the lefty even cavalierly tosses about the whole bit about "adjusting" campaign promises.

Why, it's almost as though they don't even get upset when THEIR side lies and postures.

33 Sez Jim Geraghty:

>>We now know liberal bloggers never meant what they wrote about Afghanistan. We will soon know if the president meant anything he said about that war on the campaign trail.

Of course President Obama didn't mean it.   Given all his other immediately discarded political promises, and his apparent pacifism, why is this even up for debate?

Did Obama pull out all US forces from Iraq?  Nope.
Are the detention facilities at Guantanamo bay still open?  Yup.
Did Obama raise taxes since taking office?  Yup.

I think the better question is, now that Obama is actually POTUS and has assumed (at least nominally) responsibility for the war in Afghanistan, has he had a legitimate change of heart about American military efforts abroad? 

In other words, is he going to actually be willing to expend some of his ever-dwindling political capital on this war, or is he going to let the effort atrophy, at the cost of American lives and honor?

34 In all fairness, anyone who ever believed that anything the left said was not pure political maneuvering, at the expense of everyone and everything that normal people hold dear, is an idiot.  We all know that the left are congenital liars, self-haters, and enemies of progress in all ways (except for promoting new, twisted sexual fetishes as healthy activities for the family at dinner time).  But, it is nice of them to throw the obvious in the face of the gullible fools who sold their souls for a little, temporary alleviation of illusory white-guilt.  Now those morons can have some real guilt to eat at their insides.

35 "The base of the Democratic party is fundamentally pacifist and isolationist"

Yet Pat Buchanan and Ron Paul somehow get lumped in with Conservatives who are supposedly "war mongers" and "free traders".

36 Hmmmm, war and peace.  Probably one of those peripheral issues best left to the cables. 

37 and by "win at any costs" I mean win elections, not wars.  That's all they care about.

38 When I call them traitors, I don't want anyone to think I am questioning their patriotism.

39 Are we still in Iraq, by the way? I mean, are we still fighting a war there? Did we lose, win, what? Cause I haven't seen any headlines blaring "quagmire," "ongoing civil war," or "another grim milestone" lately. Is no news good news?

40 Oh, and can I "adjust" their heads if they come too close to me?

41 Flaming skull material.

42

In other words, is he going to actually be willing to expend some of his ever-dwindling political capital on this war, or is he going to let the effort atrophy, at the cost of American lives and honor?

Zero understands about as much about honor as a dog knows about foreplay.

43 do I mean Iraq?

Yes maybe I did... hmmm...

right. I am getting quagmire stories confused.

The NYT went full quagmire on like the 5th day of the Afghanistan war too.

But I think you'e right, I am confusing the quagmires.

44

Well.  Here we all are.  Waiting for the other shoe to drop.  Waiting to finally really be able to tell if Obama is truly as bad as we thought he might be.

Hear that thunder in the distance?  That's a stampede of shoes dropping.

He's fucked our friends.  He's engaged who revile our senses and our morals.  He has demonstrated himself to be a liar of seemingly supernatural skills.

And we hope he really isn't as bad as we think he might be. 

Glenn Beck definately steps up to and sometime, on the "out there" line.  But it ain't his conclusions.  It's just his presentation. (imo)

 

 

45 Somehow I'm not shocked that they would expend American lives to further their political asperations.

46 My big question is when the Precedential polling will include "traitor" as an option?  I'm thinking it would garner something like 35% at this point.

47 So when they say if you like your private insurance you can keep it and the public option will make insurance companies more competitive is that just a strategy also?

48 I hate hippies.

49 These people have no souls. 

I almost wish their lie about our returning vets being on the verge of "snapping" were true, IYKWIMAITYD.

50 #24
Well, literally speaking, a quagmire is a sticky swamp that is difficult to pass through.   So, its not much of a stretch to classify an actual sandstorm as a "quagmire" in the literal sense. 

The problem is that every journalist of the baby boom is stuck in Vietnam.  They have no other way of looking at American involvement in foreign conflicts, except through the prism of failed East Asian policy.   That's why there has never been contemporaneous reporting on the VICTORY in Iraq. 

51

The weak horse just crapped on the Oval office rug.

I knew he was a rookie, but didn't expect him to be so far out of his league.

52 But none of us should forget that it was a political strategy, not a serious foreign policy.

I doubt that anyone will equate Democrat Party with 'serious foreign policy' any time soon.

53

"The base of the Democratic party is fundamentally pacifist and isolationist"

Balls. The base of the Democratc Party is fundamentally in favor of subjecting the US to UN rule. Isolationist my ass.

54 I never believe the left's pundits, but it's sad that their candidate so willfully lied.

55 Yeah you are talking about the Iraq war and the sandstorm. It was in March of 03 and you coudlnt even see more than 20 feet in front of you. Flipping chow hall food was covered in that crap.

56

Cindy Sheehan, for all of her kookiness, has been consistent on this.  She followed Obambi to his Hyanisport vacation the same way that she followed  Bushitler to Crawford. 

That's because she's a pathetic, shameless attention whore. She would swim to New Zealand if she thought that would get her some camera time to further overplay the sympathy card.

57 Can the libs not find another disaffected Jim Jones to lead them to a nice island somewhere?

58 43 do I mean Iraq?

Yes maybe I did... hmmm...

right. I am getting quagmire stories confused.

The NYT went full quagmire on like the 5th day of the Afghanistan war too.

In detail it was Iraq that got held up by the sandstorm, and later got held for 24 hours due to the age old "outrunning your own supply lines". Right away Arnett is in Baghdad saying the halt was because the invasion was failing and they needed to reassess the whole thing, and the entire DemSM was calling it a failed invasion. Ironically Saddam believed this too and stood down the Republican Guard. The next day our guys were in the outskirts of Baghdad.

But you're correct in that the DemSM was calling Afghanistan a quagmire while we were still loading the planes for the invasion

59 Firehorse: . . . you're all a bunch of planet-rapists.

That would explain the dirt and scrapes on my tool.  Now, do I need to go get a shot?

60 In A-stan, it wasn't the sandstorms, it was "THE BRUTAL AFGHAN WINTER" that they harped on endlessly.

Like no one ever thought to bring a sweater.

61 I can't believe that they are admitting to be the lying scum bags that they really are.

62 My plan

1. Hold very public "peace negotiations"
2. ???
3. Victory!!

63

"THE BRUTAL AFGHAN WINTER"

Yeah I know it is not like the 10th Mountain or any of the Ranger Battallions ever trains in winter climates. Nope no sirree bob.

/

64 #28 Incredible,

You can't outleft Obama.   He compiled literally the most liberal voting record in the Senate for a reason.

He's clever enough NOT to speak candidly on many topics, though I suspect if you could get him to, he'd tell you that if were able to do it without paying a huge political price, he'd pull every American soldier out of Afghanistan tomorrow.

And that's the big difference between Obama and Sheehan.  Sheehan has no "filter".  

Although she is ideologically consistent, she's also nuts.  Sheehan has served her purpose as the Left's screaming loon, and they have no further use for her.   I actually feel sorry for her (though not too sorry).

65 #57,

That's a bit much.

66 They'll do anything, no matter how low and underhanded to get power. To the left that is the end all for everything they do. Power over people.

67 Hmm, another day, another case for... YOU LIE!

68

Of all the things I've read about the Obama administration and the lying sons of bitches on the other side of the aisle, this is the most despicible.  To playfully chose one conflict over another for goddamn pissing points in a shit eating political maneouver is just.....beneath contempt.  That they would play such a cynical game, crybaby tactics relentlessly, lie and fucking lie some more and now look at this like it is just some kind of goddamn recalibration...Hey!  We're changing our goals! 

Hell isn't hot enough for cheap, miserable, clap-dripping, fucking wastes of humanity that can say shit like that and not fall down dying on the spot of soul-consuming shame. 

69

There have been many  All the campaign promises "adjusted" were lies since before the election.

FIFY

 

 

70 Contempt is not a strong enough word.

71 in afghanistan, it was this:

our guys on the ground weren't advancing because they were simply holding the enemy while the planes were obliterating them.

the pentagon said this day after day. Day after day the press noted that the battlelines weren't moving. There weren't fun arrows they could draw showing advances.

Day after day... for like six or seven days.

Then, of course, the Taliban was hollowed out and badly attrited by being blown to hell every day by daisy cutters and our troops ran roughshod over them.

So that was the afghanistan quagmire, all six or seven days of it.

The press simply did not believe that US bombers were really doing anything at all except flying around, looking pretty, and of course maybe killing civilians. (But no enemy fighters.)

72 61 I can't believe that they are admitting to be the lying scum bags that they really are.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at September 22, 2009 02:50 PM (1Jaio)

They see The Precedent get up and spout moronic nonsense and lie his ass off every single day without getting too much pushback on it, so they think they are all in the clear.  Sure, people don't like his America-hating plans, but no one in the larger media really goes into what a total imbecile The Precedent is.  Once someone is allowed to talk about "profit and earnings ratios" (demonstrating a level of mathematical understanding hovering around 7th grade) and then lecture us all on economics, finance, and the mathematical intricacies of global warming, there's really nothing that seems too obviously stupid for public consumption.

73 >Again we see a leftist projecting his pathological darkness on to others.

The blog's author, Digby, is actually a woman.

74 This is the reason, that, as lame as the Republicans are, I've been donating a lot (for me) of money to the GOP since 2004. There are no Republicans I know of who would try to lose a war for politics as the Dems tried to do with Iraq, or fake support for a war and then pull the rug out. This is truly evil, backstabbing  our soldiers and the countries where they're fighting.

That's why I supported McCain so strongly, even with his serious flaws. The Dems are simply not an option. I wish they were--we need two acceptable parties so they can keep each other honest.

75 Haha!  You trusted us!  Got you again!

76

Contempt is not a strong enough word.~Rickshaw Jack

Lower than a snake's rectum?

77 The blog's author, Digby, is actually a woman.


Well, as I've learned from VaginaWarrior Blogs, this does not necessarily preclude her from having a penis, so - you know  .  .  .

78

Since the Taliban wore no uniforms all of the bodies had to be civilians.

79 These are the kinds of posts that make this blog well worth reading.

"You claimed to support a war in which American soldiers were fighting and dying, leaving friends and limbs on the battlefield, as a cynical political strategy?"

Is there a word derogatory enough to describe these cretins?

80

The left never lies.

And I did NOT have relations with that Afghanistan War!!

81 Putrid pieces of flesh?

82 But none of us should forget that it was a political strategy, not a serious foreign policy.

I guess Mark Levi was right about Beck. Hard to believe McCain being this much of a douche.

83 At B5, Deebow has a post about the McChrystal leak.

The way I read Deebow, is "It wasn't Vietnam before, but Obama seems determined to make it Vietnam now."  But that's just my interpretation.

84 Oh by the way, just another area where the Alinsky left and the jihadists converge...to lie to, to cheat, and to steal from the unbeliever is absolutely fair game in the eyes of Allahinsky...

85 Mark Levin was also right about Beck. Mark Levi is my bartender..

86 I hate hippies too!

87

So, in what way would this not be interpreted as "giving aid and comfort to the enemy", literally?  Two witnesses?  We've got millions.  A couple of DNC/idiot messiah campaign memos would really cinch the whole thing.

I guess the left could argue that they weren't intending to give aid and comfort to the enemy, but only to bring irreparable harm to America, so they could get off on that technicality.

88 Republicans and Independents need to repeat the phrase "But none of us should forget that it was a political strategy, not a serious foreign policy." and who said it everyday from now to 2012.

If any R or I is giving any interview at anytime on any matter they need to start it out with that phrase and which party said it and lives by it.

These arrogant shits really believe themselves untouchable to confirm what most thought about them, and now that it's confirmed,I don't view them as Americans..........................period.

89 You mean "The One" made campaign promises he never intended to keep? Oh, the pain, oh the shame..I am shocked, shocked. 

90 DARTH OBAMA: If you only knew the power of Liberalism.  Obi Clinton never told you about our real position on Iraq.
DUMB LIB COLLEGE KID: He told me enough!  He told me you opposed the war because you wanted to end the imperialist racist war for oil!
DARTH OBAMA: No. I only opposed the war to get elected.
DUMB LIB COLLEGE KID: No. No. That's not true.  That's impossible!
DARTH OBAMA: Search your feelings, you *know* it to be true.
DUMB LIB COLLEGE KID: Nooooooooooooooooo!

91 Obama's plan is a bit more complex:

1. Destroy America's ability to protect herself
2. Get attacked
3. Surrender
4. I'm Prez for Life!!!!11!!!!!11!!

I wish I was joking.

92 hullabaloo gets to decide for everyone what the war means? Do you believe everything you see on hullabaloo? my guess is no, this is probably the first time you ever have, probably because it supports a simplistic picture of the world that you all enjoy believing in so much.

I, and  every lefty I know supported the war in afghanistan (though frequently we had problems with the confused strategies involved). Significant elements in afghanistan (as opposed to say, iraq) were involved in determined ongoing plots to kill us. foiling them is just fine. The only lefties who didn't support it were radical pacifists, and there really aren't very many of those. I have never met one. All the radicals I have personally met believe violence is sometimes appropriate.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe a caricature, you probably won't believe me. believe that a single liberal blogger that you regularly despise, explained in one sweeping gesture the motive behind all support for the war in afghanistan. I for one, disagree with hullabaloo.

93 this turd just needs a good ass beating that result in pain that requires dental surgery as well as some thread for the face and a little wire for the jaw bone.

94 Somebody needs to make a tape loop of Pelosi, Reid, Kerry, and Obama saying "the war in Afghanistan IS the War On Terror!" Shove this up those dirty leftists' asses.

95 "hullabaloo gets to decide for everyone what the war means? " well if the war got the same type of coverage from the left today like it did under bush you might have a point- welcome to our world, the world where if you disagree with obama you are a racist.

96

I, and  every lefty I know supported the war in afghanistan (though frequently we had problems with the confused strategies involved).

LOL.  Lefties are known as strategic geniuses when it comes to war.  Look at how you're attacking our CIA.  Genius.  Strategic genius, I say.

 Significant elements in afghanistan (as opposed to say, iraq) were involved in determined ongoing plots to kill us. foiling them is just fine.

"Just fine".  Whew!  And "foiling them".  You are giving, I must say.

 The only lefties who didn't support it were radical pacifists, and there really aren't very many of those. I have never met one. All the radicals I have personally met believe violence is sometimes appropriate.

Er ... advocating violence against Americans isn't quite the same thing.

But hey, if it makes you feel better to believe a caricature, you probably won't believe me.

Posted by: mars at September 22, 2009 03:17 PM (7B8S5)

I don't believe you.  I know that you don't believe you, either.  That's the beauty of it all.

97 Translation for all you non-shysters out there: "We're lying sacks of shit."

98 94 Somebody needs to make a tape loop of Pelosi, Reid, Kerry, and Obama saying "the war in Afghanistan IS the War On Terror!" Shove this up those dirty leftists' asses.

+1000

99 Not just the POTUS, but the FFLOTUS/SOSOTUS as well.

For everyone who (like me) believed that Hillary would have been better than Obama, and that Hillary is all set to storm out because Obama's too wussy for her, here's the sobering truth:

Clinton rebuffs general's warning on Afghanistan

NEW YORK (AFP) – US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton pushed back against the US military's blunt warning that the battle against insurgents in Afghanistan would likely be lost within a year without more US troops.

Clinton's comments in an interview with PBS television late Monday came amid reports that the Pentagon has asked General Stanley McChrystal, the top commander in Afghanistan, to delay a request for more troops.

Clinton expressed "respect" for McChrystal's assessment that the United States would likely lose the war in Afghanistan within a year without more US forces.

"But I can only tell you there are other assessments from very expert military analysts who have worked in counter-insurgencies that are the exact opposite," she said.

Her remarks were the latest sign of stiffening resistance within President Barack Obama's administration to a major escalation in the US commitment in Afghanistan, and a growing rift over the issue between civilian leaders and the military.

100 This is no surprise to anyone with half a brain.

The only military action the left supports is humanitarian.  The US military:  like the Red Cross, but with tanks!

They might support the military option if invading troops were marching across, say, Pennsylvania.  But I wouldn't even count on that.  "We deserve to be conquered!"

101 2 Well, in fairness, the opposition to the other "bad" (eg Iraq) war was just political posturing as well.

Nobody to my knowledge has called President Obama on NOT bringing home all the troops from Iraq already, something that he promised to have done by now when he was a candidate.

In fact, pretty much nobody is making ANY noises about Iraq now at all.

Their quiet is a sign that they don't want to interfere with Obama as he's in the process of giving them everything their little hearts desire.

102 Posted by: mars at September 22, 2009 03:17 PM (7B8S5)

A lefty wimp naming him/herself after the god of war?

SACRILEGE!

103

But none of us should forget that it was a political strategy, not a serious foreign policy.

The single most vile sentence I have ever read.

This is still...STILL...just a game to them.

104 It occurs to me that their retroactive support for the Revolutionary War through WWII is similarly a ruse to prove their ruffn'tumble bona fides, and not actual, you know, agreement with the use of force in those Wars.

105 Posted by: mars at September 22, 2009 03:17 PM (7B8S5)

Sorry mars: bullshit.  Democrats oppose the war in Afghanistan by 2-to-1.  Hullabaloo is speaking for the majority on your side.

106

Vic,

"Nobody believed these lying sacks of shit to begin with."

Unfortunately, a lot of people on the right and in the center did believe them. That's how they got the 52%.

107 #99 Hilary now serves at Obama's pleasure. 

Without him, she's out of Washington. . .well, unless she thinks she can pull of a successful Senate bid in MA!

So she'll either parrot whatever the White House says and like it, or forever give up hope of Federal office.

108 92 hullabaloo gets to decide for everyone what the war means? Do you believe everything you see on hullabaloo? my guess is no, this is probably the first time you ever have, probably because it supports a simplistic picture of the world that you all enjoy believing in so much.

Opposition to the war in Afghanistan began on the night of Sept. 11, 2001.  As was widely noted during the Van Jones debacle, Jones went to one of the many rallies that very night to oppose a military response to the WTC/Pentagon attacks.

You may never have met a radical pacifist, but the President of the United States sat in the pews week after week as one railed from the pulpit against the United States and its military.

109 My step-son has just entered the Ranger program at Ft. Benning, the idea that this group leads our country and as a result leads these brave men sickens and terrifies me!!

110 I gotta agree with mars on this one.

While I think that a not statistically insignificant number of Dem politicians are guilty of the same thinking in their heart of hearts, I can't believe that anything close to a majority of your average liberal would agree with Hullabaloo.

Politicizing military engagements is despicable, no matter who does it, and it happens on both the left and the right.

The only constant is that doing so represents a fringe mentality that has no place in polite conversation or in serious policy debate.

But I don't think it's that much of a cudgel to wield in the coming electoral cycles, other than bringing it up as a wedge issue and forcing the Dem candidates to refute it.

That said, if DKOS and HuffPost start saying the same thing, I'll eat my words.

111 102 Posted by: mars at September 22, 2009 03:17 PM (7B8S5)

A lefty wimp naming him/herself after the god of war?

SACRILEGE!

God of war?  I thought it was the nutbar with the soft center.

112

The entire Afghanistan situation sucks.

Dems pretending to support it, but only to the extent that opposing it would hurt them politically.  Even if polls show a relative lack of support for the war, they know that doesn't mean voters would easily tolerate a loss, either.

On the other hand... what's a "win" even look like?  Afghanistan is a "country" in much the same way that a hobo's refridgerator box is a "house".  I'm concerned that the Dems are simply waiting long enough for public support to drop low enough that they can politically justify a pullout.  We'll need more troops just to maintain some degree of relative stability, and it'll take years.  Years and troop levels I doubt the Dems are willing to commit to.

There's a reason that Afghanistan hasn't gotten much media play- neither good nor bad news plays well for Democrats.  Good news suggests we're winning, leaving little room for Dems to start calling for a pullout.  Bad news means that it's going poorly on their watch.  No surprise that they'd want to maintain a "middle ground" where we're neither winning nor losing.

113  That's why I supported McCain so strongly, even with his serious flaws. The Dems are simply not an option.

But, but we were assured by Principled Conservatives™ that there was no difference between McCain and Obama. They were quite insistent that  McCain wasn't pure enough for them. I hope that decision to sit out the election paid off for them somehow because it doesn't look so good from this angle.

114 The entire democratic party is a lie, and without lies they are nothing.

115 110

That said, if DKOS and HuffPost start saying the same thing, I'll eat my words.

Does Nancy Pelosi count?

WASHINGTON, Sept 10 (Reuters) - There is little support in Congress for sending more U.S. troops to Afghanistan, the top Democrat in the House of Representatives said on Thursday, indicating possible trouble ahead for President Barack Obama.

Obama may decide in the coming weeks whether to expand the size of the U.S. military force in Afghanistan to counter insurgent violence that has reached its highest level since the Taliban was ousted from power in late 2001.

But U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said deploying more U.S. troops could be a tough sell.

"I don't think there's a great deal of support for sending more troops to Afghanistan, in the country or in the Congress," Pelosi said at a news conference.

The chairman of the Senate Armed Forces Committee, Michigan Democrat Carl Levin, said in a New York Times interview he was not ruling out sending more troops eventually, but insisted that the United States first expand and accelerate the training of Afghan forces.

"I just think we should hold off on a commitment to send more combat troops until these additional steps to strengthen the Afghan security forces are put in motion," Levin said.

Levin raised concerns about the U.S. counterinsurgency efforts in meetings this week with the secretaries of Defense and State and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the Times said. Levin intends to propose improvements in a speech in the Senate on Friday.

A troop increase could make U.S. congressional Democrats nervous at a time when many of them already face tough prospects in next year's midterm elections.

The U.S. Congress has a full plate of difficult legislative business even before possible decisions on U.S. troop levels in Afghanistan, including legislation aimed at overhauling the U.S. healthcare system and a complicated climate-change bill.

A formal assessment of the war from U.S. Army General Stanley McChrystal, the top U.S. and NATO commander in Afghanistan, is widely expected to set the stage for a request by the military for more troops.

Pelosi said she had not yet seen this assessment, which was sent to the Pentagon last week.

"I hope that we will be briefed on the McChrystal (report) when the president receives it," she said. "Perhaps next week we will see that."

White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said Obama had not yet made a decision on whether to commit additional U.S. troops.

"The president will make a decision based on what he thinks is in the best national security interests of this country," Gibbs said.

The United States is on track nearly to double its troop presence in Afghanistan to 68,000 by the end of this year. Other nations, mainly NATO allies, have another 38,000 troops in Afghanistan and have been reluctant to send more.

Some analysts believe the Afghan war effort requires a further boost of up to 45,000 military forces along with additional diplomats and other resources.

But with U.S. casualties mounting, unease about the war is growing in Obama's Democratic Party.

116 @102  - its not the war thing that attracts him her to the name - its the fact that all of Rome worshiped  Mars that attracts him/her to it.  It obvious that libs need to be worshiped  - Obama is a prime example. I do find it odd that a liberal would choose a screen name like Mars, why not just call yourself Bush - I mean its not like the left did not charge Bush with the same types of acts that the Romans worshiped Mars for being all about.

117 I can't believe that anything close to a majority of your average liberal would agree with Hullabaloo.

Why is this so difficult for people to believe?  Democrats overwhelmingly oppose the war in Afghanistan.  Here's yet another poll.

118 107 #99 Hilary now serves at Obama's pleasure. 

Without him, she's out of Washington. . .well, unless she thinks she can pull of a successful Senate bid in MA!

So she'll either parrot whatever the White House says and like it, or forever give up hope of Federal office.

For some people, there are worse things than being out of Washington, like aiding and abetting the defeat of one's own nation in war.

And the people for whom being out of Washington is the worst thing in the world are the very last people who should be in Washington.

119 chemjeff says....

"Sorry mars: bullshit.  Democrats oppose the war in Afghanistan by 2-to-1.  Hullabaloo is speaking for the majority on your side."

haha, are you retarded? the whole point of this blog post is that the war in afghanistan was supported by dems just to appear tough. Was, past tense bud. Also, if you haven't noticed we have been fighting in afganistan for several years now. In fact, even if your poll result was an old poll result, it would still dispute the thesis of the blog post. democrats who don't support the war can't be blamed for supporting it to look macho, can they? you are one confused person.

120 Although (keep having to clarify my comments today) I certainly don't agree with mars's caricature of those of us on the right as seeing the world simplistically.

And chem, point taken re. support of the war, but that is different from politicizing a war effort.

Now if 66% (or even more than 20%) of Dems polled said they will applaud and encourage their Pol's to lie about support of a military engagement in order for them to win an election, then yes, it would indicate this isn't a fringe mentality.

Any polling on that?

121 103 But none of us should forget that it was a political strategy, not a serious foreign policy. What a fracking asshole......

122 Mars (post 92), says the lefties really DO support the war in Afghanistan. Well let us see if Obama is a regular lefty or is one of the few radical pacifists like those that Mars has never met. Hmmm.

Mars: "All the radicals I have personally met believe violence is sometimes appropriate."
Me: Yep, if they could, leftist radicals would do to conservatives exactly what I would do to the radicals, if I could.

123 More fringe thinking from the comments over there... someone who believes inherently in the evil of the U.S., regardless of the party in power.

"Is the U.S. government a permanent war government?"

-------------------

Yes. It's a cornerstone of fascism.

124 117

Why is this so difficult for people to believe?  Democrats overwhelmingly oppose the war in Afghanistan.  Here's yet another poll.

Bizarre.

29. Do you agree or disagree with the view that the military action being taken
in Afghanistan is necessary to protect Americans from having to fight terrorists
on U.S. soil? Dems: 49% agree, 42% disagree.

BUT

27. Do you support or oppose the U.S. war in Afghanistan? Dems: 33% support, 62% oppose.

and

28. Do you support or oppose sending additional U.S. troops to Afghanistan? Dems: 30% support, 62% oppose.

So a plurality of Democrats agree that the war is necessary to protect America, but a strong majority opposes the war and opposes sending over enough troops to win it.

It really is The Party of Stupid^TM.

125 > Do you believe everything you see on hullabaloo?

I never heard of it before (unless it was that one music show in the 60's). I already knew that the extent to which the far left appeared to support Afghanistan as the legitimate war, was the exact extent to which it was lying. If you and your buddies are on the left but genuinely supported the war in Afghanistan, then good on y'all.

126 ANSWER, that group who brought you all the anti-Iraq protests, also held lots of anti-Afghanistan protests. They started just days after we went into Afghanistan and C-SPAN showed them all the time. Those of you who don't want to believe that the lefts support for Afghanistan was purely a political strategy are fooling yourselves.

127 Ya know, as sad as it is to say, it is a bad time to be in the service.

You got our guys over there busting their humps, they are undermanned, they are apperently using a confusing ROE that has already managed to kill marines and now they have the leader of the "But none of us should forget that it was a political strategy, not a serious foreign policy." party calling the shots and the shots will be to get some General 6000 miles away from the battlefield to say that we need to have a small footprint in that region to win it, which of course will save the Democrats from sending the 40k in forces that are "urgently" being asked for.

We are fooling ourselves into believing that these fine servicemen and women are fighting a war on terror as if "we" had some say in it.

Remember, the party known as the Democrats are the party of "But none of us should forget that it was a political strategy, not a serious foreign policy." So our boys are now fighting for political strategy instead of against terrorist.

128 126 ANSWER, that group who brought you all the anti-Iraq protests, also held lots of anti-Afghanistan protests. They started just days after we went into Afghanistan and C-SPAN showed them all the time. Those of you who don't want to believe that the lefts support for Afghanistan was purely a political strategy are fooling yourselves.

International ANSWER is one of the last redoubts of the actual international movement to spread Soviet Socialism worldwide.  That the Soviet Union itself is no more didn't stop the True Believers from continuing their quest.

There is a strong argument to be made that William Ayers is of the same ilk (and I think he's not shy about making that argument himself).  The same's true of Van Jones.

How true it is of Axelrod, Jarrett, Emmanuel and Obama remains to be seen.  But the signs are not encouraging.

129 The present administration is a disgrace.

130 123

"Is the U.S. government a permanent war government?"

-------------------

Yes. It's a cornerstone of fascism.

It doesn't occur to those people, does it, that Islamic fundamentalists are the ones using perpetual war to keep their fascist grip on what little power they have?

131 And chem, point taken re. support of the war, but that is different from politicizing a war effort.

Now if 66% (or even more than 20%) of Dems polled said they will applaud and encourage their Pol's to lie about support of a military engagement in order for them to win an election, then yes, it would indicate this isn't a fringe mentality.

Any polling on that?

Posted by: krakatoa at September 22, 2009 03:38 PM (X31lJ)

How would you classify broad dem support for attacking our CIA and knee-capping the US that way?  Dems seem to have enjoyed lying about not going after our CIA in order to win political points, so I don't see why their obvious lying about supporting other actions to win political points would seem so out of character.  The left has loved taking the US apart in the international press for years, harming our national security, all for politics.  To lie about other aspects ... no big deal.

Frankly, I can't think of one issue that dems didn't lie about during the campaign.  Not a one.  And, outside of this admission by hullabaloo, I can't think of a single issue they're not lying about, still.

132 If I say that whichever twit writes the Hullaballoo blog is the leader of the Democratic Party, does that mean FOX News can make every Democrat they interview answer the question of whether they agree with this?

133 I am shocked, SHOCKED, that a liberal sould back away from supporting our troops in the field. Never mind the General requesting more troops is an Obama appointee. He has the balls to want to win there? Didn't he get the memo? Run away! Run away!

134 I think it is important to keep in mind that to a True Pacifist, violence in never an option.

And TPs are almost always Democrats. So there is a constant percentage that is always against a military solution.

It is also true that while many Democrats are not TPs, a majority of them tend toward Pacisfism in general.

I think that accounts for much the poll disparity. They compartmentalize the questions.

That said, obviously there is some cohort that is lying. They are still on the page of the rulebook that tells them they must say they support the war to score political points, while at heart are against it because we were only getting what we deserved.

First of all 9-11 happened because George W Bush provoked the attacks.
(again from the H-boo comment section)

135 International ANSWER is one of the last redoubts of the actual international movement to spread Soviet Socialism worldwide.  That the Soviet Union itself is no more didn't stop the True Believers from continuing their quest.

There is a strong argument to be made that William Ayers is of the same ilk (and I think he's not shy about making that argument himself).  The same's true of Van Jones.

Posted by: stuiec at September 22, 2009 03:48 PM (f0O9k)

Nah.  Van's more of a Maoist - at least according to HuffPo, as they were trying to defend him.

136 122

Mars: "All the radicals I have personally met believe violence is sometimes appropriate."
Me: Yep, if they could, leftist radicals would do to conservatives exactly what I would do to the radicals, if I could.

To which I add: all the radicals I have personally met believe that the US government is the enemy against whom violence is appropriate, and don't regard Islamic fundamentalist terrorists who attack Western targets, or Palestinian terrorists who murder Israeli civilians, or Maoist terrorists or narco-terrorists who murder South Americans, as appropriate targets of violence.  The radicals will sometimes lay themselves down in front of bulldozers or become terrorists themselves to protect those latter groups from the evil Western imperialists.  And when their favored friends murder civilians, the radicals will excuse those murders as the necessary breaking of eggs for their One World omelette.

137

haha, are you retarded? the whole point of this blog post is that the war in afghanistan was supported by dems just to appear tough. Was, past tense bud. Also, if you haven't noticed we have been fighting in afganistan for several years now. In fact, even if your poll result was an old poll result, it would still dispute the thesis of the blog post. democrats who don't support the war can't be blamed for supporting it to look macho, can they? you are one confused person.

do you really mean this or are you just saying this?  Stereotyping sucks doesn't it?

138 For Liberals, war is a political expediency.  It is used to prove their manliness.  The conviction to win takes second place to the desire to cut and run to save face if things are going badly.

139

Everything liberals do is a political strategy. From welfare (vote-buying) to the "fairness doctrine" (shutting down opposition) it's all about amassing power.

The question is, what do liberals have in mind AFTER they take power? Obama is showing us a great example. Paying off his friends in the unions, taking over as much of the economy as possible, using the powers of government to further the liberal agenda.

Of course, in the long run, liberals have NO IDEA how to run a society. Almost everything they propose is wrong, and they blindly follow advice from failed European thinkers.

140

I claimed to support Ron and Nicole to prove my manliness....

 

Sincerely,

Orenthal

141 There is a strong argument to be made that William Ayers is of the same ilk (and I think he's not shy about making that argument himself). 

Posted by: stuiec at September 22, 2009 03:48 PM (f0O9k)

While we're talking about Bill Ayers, it's intersting to note that the Zelaya wannabe-junta-in-exile's representative at the UN (ostensibly for Honduras) is an old terrorist bomber from the 80's - sort of the Honduran Bill Ayers.  And the US government is supporting that junta-in-exile and their bomber representative while refusing visas to the legitimate Honduran representative.

Just thought I'd throw that in.

142

I feigned support for feeding the Ukrainians to highlight my humanity.

Dance Nikita, Dance,

Joe Stalin

143

141 PoP,

If he wrote Zelya's autobio for him using nautical metaphors that Zelya never uttered it is kind of like there is a DaVinci code for Constitution ignoring American Marxists....

144 Frankly, I can't think of one issue that dems didn't lie about during the campaign.  Not a one.  And, outside of this admission by hullabaloo, I can't think of a single issue they're not lying about, still.

I get that... I really do.

I just don't know any of my liberal friends who supported the Afghanistan conflict only to the extent that it advanced their political ideology to do so.

Granted, it's a small sample, and it tends to be old-school liberalism that my friends adhere to. But I think it is also true that Dem politicians are outside the leftist mainstream in their politicization of military engagements.

Maybe it's just me hoping for the best. We are in a lot worse trouble than I imagine if that school of thought represents anything more than a fringe of the left.

145 @139 - they base everything on their magnificant intentions (hcr)- never the results (failed stimulus). results don't matter to members of congress, particularly to dems.

146

If he wrote Zelya's autobio for him using nautical metaphors that Zelya never uttered it is kind of like there is a DaVinci code for Constitution ignoring American Marxists....

Posted by: sven10077 at September 22, 2009 04:02 PM (2Ut0s)

Now that would just be astronomically creepy.  It would be a strong bit of evidence that there's something to Satanism.

I'm still trying to recover from the strange coincidence of "the butterfly effect" theory and the actual effect of the Florida butterfly ballots.

147 Wow This is despicable. Liberals are gambling with the lives of soldiers for the sake of votes. Like Ace said:

We won't forget, champ. And we won't let you forget, either.

God, I'm so angry.

148 I just don't know any of my liberal friends who supported the Afghanistan conflict only to the extent that it advanced their political ideology to do so.

Granted, it's a small sample, and it tends to be old-school liberalism that my friends adhere to. But I think it is also true that Dem politicians are outside the leftist mainstream in their politicization of military engagements.

Posted by: krakatoa at September 22, 2009 04:02 PM (X31lJ)

Okay.  I understand your point.  Maybe the question is better put, how many of your liberal friends knew that the idiot messiah was intentionally lying when he was acting tough about Afghanistan (you remember his talking about violating Pakistani sovereignty - which I agreed with, but knew he was full of it) but let it slide because they knew "he had to say that"?

It's tough addressing the whole "friends" issue - I have very good friends in Israel who are Meretz folks, so I understand the situation well - but with respect to political claims, I know that they know what we all know.  You know? 

149

democrats who don't support the war can't be blamed for supporting it to look macho, can they? you are one confused person.

A majority don't support it. But then, the election''s been held, hasn't it? Who would they be posturing for now? Once Zero takes his throne there's no need to pretend any longer, is there?

I think you're the confused one here and it's odd considering how obvious this is.

150 No Blood for Oil!!! 

Remember that one?  "Blood for Votes," on the other hand, is perfectly fine.

151

I just don't understand why the dems want to put us ALL in danger.  If they want to endanger themselves they can go ahead. 

But, when the dems are deciding my safety I get very worried.  I'm not sure that if we were attacked again in our country if they would fight back.

The O hasn't paid much attention lately to foreign policy (it is not a big deal, ya know) and now that he does he is showing once again what a fool (on the hill) he is.

152 6 Well, I for one am shocked! ...that they ADMIT it.

153 These racist attacks on Glen Greenwald are what we should expect from fascists.

154 Lefties hate a.n.s.w.e.r. no radical I've ever met respected them and all were very vocally annoyed that they had anything to do with the organizing of any protests. They tend to be much older, commie types. They bascially grabbed the permits fast and then played king of the protests. They represent an incredibly small number of protestors. Most lefty radicals consider them to be psuedo-stalinist throwbacks.

155 Motherf**rs the lot of them.

156 We won't forget, champ chump.

We won't forget, champ chimp.

FIFY. Twice, even. And hey, if the chimp moniker was good enough for Booosh, it's good enough for some pasty-faced liberal blogger.

157 Motherf**rs the lot of them.

There's no evidence that they'd know what to do with a Mother if they actually caught one.

158 Mars,

I get your point --  I really do.  But since you're insisting that we're "caricaturing" the left, I'd be curious as to your thoughts on these:

Is Rush Limbaugh the "leader" of the right?  Does what he says hold for all conservatives?  Obama and Pelosi sure think so.  Should Fox News then (as someone up there suggested) hand Hullaballoo around every Democrat's neck the way all the other alphabet channels do when it's Rush and the Republicans?

How do the "racists" among the "teabaggers" compare to ANSWER?  We seem to see quite a bit of coverage of the former; not a word about the latter (oh, and I refer you to Zombietime.com for some interesting looks at ANSWER and the size of the crowds they generate).

Again, I see your point.  But I hope you can see mine: it sure as hell hurts when the shoe's on the other foot, don't it? 

159 But none of us should forget that it was a political strategy, not a serious foreign policy.

Say that a little louder and into the the lapel pin please. I know a bunch of people who might be very interested in your attitude on this subject.


The base of the Democratic party is fundamentally pacifist and isolationist


I'm going to have to say no on this one. They just don't like the military spending it causes; means they have to print more money in order to have some to spread around, and even they know, by now, that they are playing with economic nitroglycerin and calling it a "shock absorber".

160 The NYT went full quagmire on like the 5th day of the Afghanistan war too.

They were warning of the Brutal Winter™ in the Graveyard of Empires™

161 This is why the Progressives should be treated as enemies of the Constitution and America. When the dust settles we should do to them what our Founders did to the Tories. Take their stuff and send them packing to any regime they want but here they're not welcome.

162

Now Barry knoew how Nixon felt. He inherits a war, the left is aligned against him. Only this time he is the Left. Nixon was smart enough to get re-elected to a second term with an escalation of troops.

Barry, is no Richard M. Nixon.

He's a ghetto yard smurf, on the WH lawn.

163

none of us should forget that it was a political strategy, not a serious foreign policy idea.

Is the MO of the modern leftist movement. All they do is shout slogans, lie, obfuscate, and demonstrate hypocrisy.

They are unserious people saying unserious things.

164 76
"Lower than a snake's rectum?"
I think its lower than a snake's hemipenis, but I could be mistaken.

165 All the radicals I have personally met believe violence is sometimes appropriate- Mars

Yeah, like when they personally are about to get their head blown off.  But not if I'm about to get my head blown off; that's negotiable. 
Selfish bastard.

166 That's all it is to the liberals, politics. How can any situation be turned to a political advantage? They do it with soldier's lives or the little kid who got bit by a dog. Life and death have no meaning in their world beyond what sort of political advantage can be gained.

I always suspected such out of liberals, but it had always been one of those things that was best left unsaid. Well that mask has slipped, and it will now be interesting to see how many other liberal bloggers pick up the theme and echo it or defend it. I can almost guarantee you none will distance themselves.

These words somehow ring hollow
"On behalf of a grateful nation, for your loved ones loyal and dedicated service..."
Words spoken at the presentation of a flag at a military funeral.

167 Why does this surprise you, Ace?

Why does this surprise anyone?

This is who they are. You didn't know this?

168 92 I, and  every lefty I know supported the war in afghanistan

I notice you use past-tense here. Any reason for that?

169 how many of your liberal friends knew that the idiot messiah was intentionally lying when he was acting tough about Afghanistan.

Very few I think. True they may have suspected, but they were caught up in hopey/changeyness.

It's tough addressing the whole "friends" issue ... I know that they know what we all know.  You know? 

Perhaps more accurately, I know they have access to what we all know. The difference is the filters by which they get their information and their world view.

Every one of them swears by NPR, and accepts that the MSM hold personal biases, but believe that by and large the Deciders don't let that bias intrude on what is reported, or how it is framed.

My wife is a recovering Liberal. Ex college English Lit/comp teacher, so you can imagine how ingrained so many of the Liberal canards were. She still doesn't feel confident enough in her political knowledge (despite how frequently it is the topic of discussion), and over the many years of living in the Liberal bubble of academia, to vote for a Republican. But at least she's gotten as far as not voting at all due to her general ignorance of the issues and mistrust of politicians of any stripe.

That took years with me, and getting a job that paid enough for her to feel what it's like paying the Government four to five months of her annual income.

I spend much less time with my lib friends than I do with her, obviously. And of that time, political discussion happen infrequently. It's just not something brought up in polite company.

170 "158 Mars,

I get your point --  I really do.  But since you're insisting that we're "caricaturing" the left, I'd be curious as to your thoughts on these:

Is Rush Limbaugh the "leader" of the right?  Does what he says hold for all conservatives?  Obama and Pelosi sure think so.  Should Fox News then (as someone up there suggested) hand Hullaballoo around every Democrat's neck the way all the other alphabet channels do when it's Rush and the Republicans?

Rush doesn;t
How do the "racists" among the "teabaggers" compare to ANSWER?  We seem to see quite a bit of coverage of the former; not a word about the latter (oh, and I refer you to Zombietime.com for some interesting looks at ANSWER and the size of the crowds they generate).

Again, I see your point.  But I hope you can see mine: it sure as hell hurts when the shoe's on the other foot, don't it?"

bullfrog: please, are you really giving me the you guys do it so now its okay too argument? Your examples are very strange. I didn't realize that asserting that limbaugh has some kind of leadership with conservatives was controvercial? I mean, who asserts that every single conservative believes that. what lefties do believe, is that no one has the guts to call rush on his race-baiting. No one likes ANSWER, but I don't think any one would compare them to racists. I can see very well why racists get more media attention. ANSWER does not "generate" these crowds. Without the iraq war protests, years ago now, numbers at protest have plummeted. Do people of all political stripes have individuals looking to smear and demonize their opponents? of course.

But I dont like false equavalence either. you are very concerned perhaps about reverse racism, and that limbaugh not be some kind of leader, but who here called him out for his recent rant where he suggested bus's be segregated? blamed "obama's america" for some isolated incident on a bus. i never thought I would hear a modern conservative go so low as to advocate segregation in 2009, to nakedly whip up white paranoia, but the right seems to have given him a pass.....

171

167 -- I knew; I know; I have foreknowledge of what they will be for eternity...doesn't make it any easier to stomach each time it crosses my radar.

I truly detest, despise, and revile these people.  My thoughts turn to the bloody, the brutal, and the barbaric when contemplating what I'd like to do to them.

172 168 92 I, and  every lefty I know supported the war in afghanistan

I notice you use past-tense here. Any reason for that?

Posted by: Original Roy at September 22, 2009 04:51 PM (ejHeB)

Yes, because the blog post revolves around the notion that lefties who supported the war, did so only to appear macho originally, in the past. My view is usually, but not always, more nuanced than support/oppose. I support a military presence in afganistan to slay al-qaida/taliban. I oppose the neocon drive to turn it into kansas, help rig their elections, choose their leaders, etc.. humanitarian aid is fine.

173

I propose that the "morons" on this blog switch from hobo hunting to hippie hunting!

After all, with the way the economy is going we'll be lucky if we aren't all hobos before the next 3 years is up, and hippies are a much more satisfactory target for vengeance imho (seeing as how nothing actually can force a person to be a hippie, other than having no soul and an extreme sense of holier than thou entitlement).

174

The Left:

Caught campaigning in a sheepdog costume, now complaining that someone screwed the pooch.

Own it.

 

 

175

Noboy is turning Astan into "Kansas", and quite honestly the only way to ensure that it doesn't revert is to make sure the wrong people don't get back into power.  Please, the moral superiority stance only works in the antiseptic halls of academia, not in the real world.  Maybe that sucks, but that's reality.

As for "nuance" please, I am a simple person -- explain what exactly was your nuanced position?  That you would support a war only if it fell under your guidelines of "morality"?  What are those guidelines please?  Do you have any concept of what a war is really like outside of what you've read in your history books or seen on tv?

176

This is a comment I left there:

 

You Leftists are pathetic dirtbags... of course I knew that the support for the AF war was just window dressing.. the Marxist Obama couldnt care less about the outcome there , his focus is on radically transforming the country into a collectivist hellhole.

Well I'd say most of the people in this country are now aware that Obama is not trustwroth (at the min.) whether or not they grasp the full significance of what he's doing is another question but one that more people are awakening to everyday.

The Humane Progressive totalitarian state that someone wished for above will not be tolerated in this country.

177 I oppose the neocon drive to turn it into kansas, help rig their elections, choose their leaders, etc..

And now we see the sort of Leftist conspiracy paranoia that is much less of a fringe element in that movement.

178 And how funny Krakatoa -- I'm a former Eng. Lit/Comp instructor and lived in the hallowed halls of academia for 16 years of my life.  Of course, I thank my ties to the real world for not allowing me to become what so many of my erstwhile and deluded peers became.

179 170

But I dont like false equavalence either. you are very concerned perhaps about reverse racism, and that limbaugh not be some kind of leader, but who here called him out for his recent rant where he suggested bus's be segregated? blamed "obama's america" for some isolated incident on a bus. i never thought I would hear a modern conservative go so low as to advocate segregation in 2009, to nakedly whip up white paranoia, but the right seems to have given him a pass.....

It has to do with your ignorance.

A bunch of Black kids on a school bus punch and kick the crap out of a white kid because the white kid sat in the wrong bus seat.  Pre-emptively, the media and community activists declare that the Black kids didn't single out the white kid based on race -- even though the police initially said that it looked like a racially-motivated incident on its face.

Then the head of the local NAACP chapter says that the community is all wee-weed up due not to the overtly racist behavior of the kids on the bus, but the racism implied in "You lie!"  It's the whites' fault, you see.

Given that background, it makes perfect sense that Rush Limbaugh would reduce the situation ad absurdam to illustrate the absurdity of the positions of the media, community activists and NAACP head.  If it's the whites' fault, if the presence of the white kid on the bus was too provocative and intolerable to the Black kids because he represents "You lie!" and reminds them of how all white people hate having a Black President, why, then, for the protection of the Black kids -- to keep them from being similarly provoked in the future -- the white kids need to be put on separate busses.

That would be the logical solution -- if the media and the community activists were right about all whites being racists and no Blacks being capable of racism or racist acts.

So tell me: are the media and community activists right?

180 167 Why does this surprise you, Ace?

Why does this surprise anyone?

This is who they are. You didn't know this?

171

167 -- I knew; I know; I have foreknowledge of what they will be for eternity...doesn't make it any easier to stomach each time it crosses my radar.

I truly detest, despise, and revile these people.  My thoughts turn to the bloody, the brutal, and the barbaric when contemplating what I'd like to do to them.

Posted by: unknown jane at September 22, 2009 05:05 PM (5/yRG)

wow, talk about macho fantasies....this is that demonization I'm talking about, its become that those who disagree with conservative dogma, must only do so according to some grave, deep, personality defect that borders on the sinsiter, evil, etc.. these thoughts betray a powerful, irrational current in the modern right-wing...

Obama doesn't have another reasoned opinion, he seeks the destruction of america, etc.. I know not everyone is this irrational here, but its enough people to freak me out, that's for sure.

181

I don't listen to Limbaugh, but I know of the bus incident (not the only one either, sadly) -- it was a glaring case of racism, and for the local NAACP to proclaim that "white racism resenting Obama" was even remotely related to this is beyond the pale.

And by the way, any lefty dipshits who might decide to take this up:  I'm. not. 100%. white.  Oh, and I was targeted by crackers growing up as a kid, as was my family.  I know what a "racially motivated attack" looks like...and that video on the bus?  Yep, that was a racially motivated attack.

By the by, I get a bit sick and tired of your insistence on only allowing "people of color" who follow your ideology and party line any sort of public voice of any importance.  You want to talk about "whipping up racial paranoia and hate"?  You do a really stellar job of it -- thanks a lot.

182 177 I oppose the neocon drive to turn it into kansas, help rig their elections, choose their leaders, etc..

And now we see the sort of Leftist conspiracy paranoia that is much less of a fringe element in that movement.

how is this conspiracy theory? The stated goal of neoconservatism is to spread freedom throughout the world by using violence to produce democratic states.

183 Uhm, where did I say anything about Obama in my comment?  The President will either do or not do...and I will gage my opinion of his performance on that.  I do however find it completely disgusting that the left in this country will so blithely use the lives of our military (and discard them) in such a reprehensible fashion.  I could also add that they will so blithely write off people in other countries as well.  That, Mars (hmm, interesting choice of tag) is truly a hideous mindset made only the more reprehensible due to the left's arrogance that they can say such things without any fear of repercussion.  That somehow this is not only "ok", but also "good". 

184 182 -- Where do you read this at?  I'm not a neocon, but then again, I've read about it, and I've never seen a manifesto expressly stating this (I've never seen a manifesto actually).

185

you are very concerned perhaps about reverse racism, and that limbaugh not be some kind of leader, but who here called him out for his recent rant where he suggested bus's be segregated? blamed "obama's america" for some isolated incident on a bus.

Nobody "called him out" for that because it never happened. Stop reading the far left sites and believing them.

186 Jane, how do you know it was a racially motivated attack?

you are one of two people to comment on the bus incident. I find both responses incoherent and it would take me a long time to rebutt them. (for instance: "You want to talk about "whipping up racial paranoia and hate"?  You do a really stellar job of it -- thanks a lot." really? how am i doing that?)

Incident comes along that people assume must be racially motivated. cops end up deciding it was over a seat. Rush decides it is an example of "obamas america", apparently meaning that in obamas america, black kids get to beat up white kids. how obama is responsible for that, is sort of beyond me, unless Rush thinks that obama-as-black-man's idea is for some kind of black supremacy, hence, Rush gets charged for race-baiting. it seems pretty straightforward. White people (such as myself) need to fear black people because their beating us up is now some kind national pastime thanks to obama.

I don't know anything about what the NAACP said. who listens to them anyway?

187

you are one of two people to comment on the bus incident.

 

Do you know anything about this other whan what you read at the lefty sites? Because what you think you know just ain't so.

188

Obama doesn't have another reasoned opinion, he seeks the destruction of america, etc..

Posted by: mars at September 22, 2009 05:35 PM (7B8S5)

Just for shits and giggles, what is it about America that you think The Precedent actually likes.  I can't recall him saying anything flattering about our nation (other than we were dumb enough to elect him) but maybe you can help me out.  What did he say on his world Traitor Tour that led anyone to think that America was a decent nation, and not just the evil, mean, moneygrubbing, heartless, military colonizer he kept telling the world we were?

Don't get me wrong.  I don't fault The Precedent for hating America.  This isn't his country, after all, and he is very pissed about how the US and the West have so shamed his people (the third world, as he sees it) through our great productivity, wealth, and achievement, that he feels the need to exact revenge.  But, aside from that obvious stuff, and the moronic things he said about capital gains taxes and how taxes are needed to inflict pain on people, instead of as vehicles for funding anything ("fairness", if you recall), what has he said he likes about our country?  And don't cheat and say something like, "He likes that we have a Constitution that is easily ignored," or "He likes that American white guilt makes moron lefties so easy to push around," but tell me real things about America that he likes and doesn't feel the need to radically change or destroy.

189 how is this conspiracy theory? The stated goal of neoconservatism is to spread freedom throughout the world by using violence to produce democratic states.

Um. You sort of make my point right there champ. (Leftist) movement-generated claptrap like that, which you trot out as an absolute article of faith.

190

The only war that the left seems to be at all interested in fighting is their war against Beck, Rush, Palin, and the rest of us so-called right wing terrorists.  Consider the following:

-The belief by the potus that this country somehow needs a "civillian army that is just as well funded as our military."

-The belief of one of potus' czars in media diversity which is actually code for trying to put conservative talk radio out of business through taxation and redistribution to public (aka government run) media.

-A near monopoly on the mainstream media which has become more of a government propaganda arm than at any other time in history.

-The use of the National endowment of the arts as a leftist propaganda arm.

-A virtual takeover of banks, the auto industry, and insurance companies (pending).

-The use of unions, community organizations, and militant left wing groups as enforcers in the workplace, town halls, and voting centers.

-Extortion and or intimidation of any opposition to left wing agendas which includes attacks on private citizens.

These are just a few of the tactics that are being employed in our own country and all have been well documented by the few remaining independent media outlets on both the internet and cable.  They are also all ways in which the current government is waging a cold war against its own citizens.  Consider the efforts that are going into all of these things in comparison with their efforts to win the war on terror and it is easy to see what this government's main agenda is: the destruction of this country as we have known it and the institution of a tightly controlled socialist nanny state in its place.

191

Hey, mars, I'll help you out.  The Precedent did just say,"But this is a new day. It is a new era. And I am proud to say that the United States has done more to promote clean energy and reduce carbon pollution in the last eight months than at any other time in our history."

Oops.  Nevermind.  That goes to my point, not yours.  I guess The Precedent's anti-growth, anti-comeptitive, pro-recession plan did have some benefits ... for insane people who subscribe to Anthropogenic Catastrophic Global Warming hysteria.

P.S.  I love how all the lefties have really glommed on to calling CO2 "pollution".  It's kind of cute.  Makes people think of smog and stuff ... LOL.

192 and congrats on your recovery from the academic echo-chamber, unknown jane.

193 Those who deny and rationalize the indefensible, those who miss the obvious significance of all these markers; they mean little to Obama and his most active leftist supporters.

For them, such people are one of many "useful idiots", to be driven under the bus as soon as they're inconvenient.

194

The stated goal of neoconservatism is to spread freedom throughout the world by using violence to produce democratic states.
Really?

Stated, just like that, "by using violence to produce democratic states"??

 

 

195

Posted by: krakatoa at September 22, 2009 06:15 PM (X31lJ)

I used to recommend 6 months on an Israeli kibbutz to cure anyone of leftist tendencies, but since the kibbutzim have all either gone broke or capitalist in order to survive, that's not available anymore. 

I learned everything I needed to know about the practical problems with leftist theories by living on kibbutzim.  Growth kills all leftist ideas, since they are all formulated around static, unchanging worlds - which is why the left thinks that control can always be centralized efficiently.

196 What? Pacifist = war? I wondered about that. Tea and crumpets!

197

At the end of July or start of August there were at least 2 "War Rooms" set up by the Democrats to go to war over Health Care Reform.

The only war the present Democratic Party actually will support is a war on American citizens.

 

198 The sad thing is that Obama will have to pull the troops out of Afghaninstan since the status quo and substantial troop increases are both out of the question to him and his liberal supporters. This will leave a safe haven and moral victory to radical islamics, and the American blood that the left disengenously bemoaned the loss of in that country will have been shed in vain. We can only hope Iraq survives and prospers as a democratic society.

199 I'll say this for Mars, the quality of our trolls is starting to look up!

200

Yeah, Sarge, but the quality of our trolls was, at best, Corvair-ish.

Maybe more like a busted up Big Wheel stuck up under a double-wide.

201 I don't think anyone is surprised by this revelation, now we just need to go Alinsky on them, hold them to their promises and start asking when they are going to go sign up to meet demand.

202 No surprise, but despicable nonetheless.

203 I knew this at the time, and we all did.

But this is what the Left *has* to do to oppose war. They've always got to have some strategic-sounding blah blah about why this particular war is wrong and should not be fought.

Uninformed listeners can draw the conclusion that Leftists know what human nature is about and that force is sometimes necessary for good to prevail. Leftists do not, however, believe this. They are 100% pacifist. All use of force is wrong. All wars are wrong.

I think Leftists realize on some deep-down level if they come out and put their total pacifism on display, they will not get new voters.

204 I'll say this for Mars, the quality of our trolls is starting to look up!

Faint praise.

205

I don't know "mars," so I'm more or less obligated to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's one of the unwitting dupes of those who seek to hijack well-intentioned movements for their own purposes. But even that only speaks well of his naïveté.

Well-intentioned dreamers like mars typify the base of movements that aim to solve the world's ills. These people are easily duped and outmaneuvered by those crafty enough to co-opt their ideals in the quest for power. People like mars usually never even have suspicions about these interlopers and generally end up defending them anyway if they do suspect anything.

206 Mars, why should we or anyone else trust what you say when the whole point of this thread is the depths to which Lefties will go to achieve their goals?

207 I left the following comment at the original Hullabalo Blog:

"But none of us should forget that it was a political strategy, not a serious foreign policy. "


This sums up perfectly just exactly why the Left is the embodiment of evil in the United States. To Leftists, Americans fighting and dying is a political strategy, and nothing more. All life is expendable, unless the perception of saving and preserving it (such as being AGAINST any given war) can further the Leftist aspirations for fascism.

Evil. Pure and unrefined.

208

g.

I appreciate your passion, but painting in absolute moral judgement with a broad brush isn't terribly accurate or persuasive.

209

"You claimed to support a war in which American soldiers were fighting and dying, leaving friends and limbs on the battlefield, as a cynical political strategy?"

  -- Actually, Democrats in Congress also voted to invade Iraq as a domestic political calculus so they wouldn't look week in the "War on Terror" ahead of the elections.

210

The digby person disappeared approximately 30 comments between my first response and when I just now re-checked the comments thingie.

 

Such courage.

211

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212

Alec Leamas : not only did it delete my comments , it also enabled comment moderation.

 

The left is pathetic.

 

213 Let's see now....lied about any number of things to get elected. Got elected. Now, the "just kidding" ploy.  Sorry guys, but that's fraud. Your man can't be prez anymore. Keep in mind  the lying is to everyone, including you....dips.

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