1 I shouldn't have to, but I can't help but wonder if this will get as much national attention as the shooting death of abortion doctor George Tiller.

Oh, Gabe, you sure do bring teh funny.

2 This is awful. Bet it will only be seen on Fox. And the president will not respond. It's very much like the demeaning of town hallers; pro-lifers do not exist except for as a thorn in the side of the left.

3 Great, now they're shooting the protesters.

I'm bringing my gun.

4 Locals say that the victim, James Pouillon of Owosso, was well-known in the area for his pro-life activities.  Local columnist Doug Powers wrote on his blog that Pouillon, known as “the abortion sign guy," was known for standing on street corners holding up signs with pictures of aborted children.

5
Aren't we still waiting for the president to make a public announcement about the recruits who were killed by the muslim?

6 Retribution for Tiller, perhaps?

7 Look at the Google logo today and tell me if you are ready to make the switch to Bing.

8 Wow Gabe, you've lost a lot of weight.

http://tinyurl.com/nsfaxb

9 I am wondering if Charles Johnson at LGF will cover this as heavily as he covered the Tiller debacle.

10 President Infanticide won't say a f*cking word. 

11 Guys like this, when they go to meet their maker, they've got a bunch of tiny angels who plead for them and say "He tried to save us."  RIP, Sign Man.

12 Will this get as much play as the pro-life dude who shot the abortion doctor?

13 What do you expect?  He acted stupidly.

14 Is this really news?  Anyone inhuman enough to hack up babies is capable of anything.

15

Outside of the local news this won't get any press coverage.

16 Chuckie Johnson feigns outrage.

17

#7 I switched to Bing today.

I think it goes without saying that the this individual will not receive the same attention as Dr. Tiller. I've already seen an article that stated that the signs we carried depicted graphic pictures of aborted babies. I took that statement as an attempt to point out mitigating circumstances. I can imagine that there will be a good deal of "he got what he deserved" going on under the radar.

18

9 I am wondering if Charles Johnson at LGF will cover this as heavily as he covered the Tiller debacle.

I was mulling how to say this in a more veiled way.  Props to jeff forjust coming out and saying it.

19 Daddy didn't love me. Please pay attention to me.

20

Go ahead, Tweets at #5, steal a march on me making the first recruiter (and planned Jew daycare etc.) shooter reference.

21 9 By the way, the answer is 'no.'  His policy is 'all I print is news that fits.'

22

Posted by: honest cloud at September 11, 2009 12:18 PM (4dCEv)

Is it hard to type with your head up your ass?

23

#15--It has made the local news--Detroit News and Free Press. And it's on the local ABC's website.

We shall see about the national.

24
I'm sure the White House and the MSM will observe a very,  very long moment of silence.

25
sorry, canuck, but that's what you get when you spend all day collecting maple syrup

26

I think the difference here is the pro choice leftists don't encourage the shooting and bombing.

The right wingers on the other hand....

You're an idiot, and I've never so insulted anyone in a forum or any where else.

Do you know anyone in the pro life movement? My husband was involved for years locally and carrying graphic signs is severely frowned upon . . . let alone physical violence.

No doubt there are violent people who have adopted being anti-abortion as a raison d'etre, but they are no where near the mainstream.

The Left, on the other hand, invented shooting and bombing people that disagree, and its participants are celebrated for it.

27

19 I think the difference here is the pro choice leftists don't encourage the shooting and bombing.

No, you assholes just commit arson against Hummer dealerships and development projects, you assholes shot up a Republican campaign headquarters some years back, you assholes murder those with opposing views, you assholes send bombs through the mail a la the Unibomber, you assholes blow up police stations and you assholes support domestic terrorists like Bill Ayers and Bernadine Dhorn.

28

19 I think the difference here is the pro choice leftists don't encourage the shooting and bombing.

The right wingers on the other hand....

Ever attend an abortion as a healthcare professional?  My wife, a registered nurse, has.  She used to work OB/GYN and cared for women undergoing late-term medical abortions, back when they used pessaries to induce labor and natural expulsion of the fetus.

She's held the aborted babies, wrapped them in receiving blankets to let their mothers say goodbye.  She's watched a doctor hold what was a fetus -- now a baby -- in his hand, waiting for its heart to stop beating, because if it took a breath on its own it would become a patient instead of a specimen.  She's seen a colleague watch a baby in the specimen bucket start to breathe, and rush it to the neonatal intensive care unit -- and then seen that baby go home with its mother a few weeks later.

Maybe the pro-choice Leftists don't encourage shooting and bombing because their bloodlust is sated by knowing how much carnage they enable in the abortion mills.

29 So Obama is deploying defenses to other known pro-life facilities right?  right?

Ohhhhh   that's right, on;y libs get defense.

EFFING  DISGUSTING

30 So Obama is deploying defenses his minions to other known pro-life facilities right?  right?

FIFY

31 Aren't we still waiting for the president to make a public announcement about the recruits who were killed by the muslim?

Yep.  He had an obligation to do so, of course, as their CinC.  I don't expect the president to get involved in everything, like natural disasters -- although Obama's had 2 or 3 Katrinas he's ignored since being in office -- but he owes our armed services a modicum of attention.

You know, I'd rather have Obama be a practicing Muslim than what he is -- a Marxist who has an unrequited love affair with his dead father's culture.  Granted, Obama has a paternalistically condescending view of Islam, but he could no more fault it than you could blame a baby for crying.   To him, Islamic culture and its adherents are simply never at fault.

32 19 I think the difference here is the pro choice leftists don't encourage the shooting and bombing.

Posted by: honest cloud at September 11, 2009 12:18 PM (4dCEv)

I'm not going to do it, but if somebody wants to post some choice comments from Kos on this event, I think it would be warranted.

33 @stuiec #28

Well said indeed.

It's a peculiar irony that the supporters of a practice in which 50% of the persons involved are intentionally put to death - often a slow and agonizing death - accuse their opponents of a love of violence.

34

Arrested for standing with his sign on city hall.

Transcript of the appeal here: http://tinyurl.com/lqtp99

He won the appeal and sued for damages. Got $2.00 for his trouble. Kinda like the QB2 award.

Transcript: http://tinyurl.com/lpus4b

Looks like they have been trying to shut him up for a long time.

35 I use a mix of Bing and Surfwax. I quit using Google years ago, when they finally convinced me don't be evil.

36

Some of the things O'Reilly has said of Tiller who he constantly refers to as "Tiller the Baby Killer"

He "destroys fetuses for just about any reason right up until the birth date for $5,000."He's guilty of "Nazi stuff," a moral equivalent to NAMBLA and al-Qaida"This is the kind of stuff that happened in Mao's China, Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Soviet Union""operating a death mill""has blood on his hands""executing babies about to be born"This is what I mean about the rightwing  encouraging violence. Not rightwing fringers but YOUR LEADERS.

And you dumbasses don't know the difference.

37 Or use a program from Copernic - I think it's Coprenic Agent - that searches multiple websites at once, and not one of them is Google, but they do both Yahoo and Bing. That's more for focused research than just a casual search, but it's a nifty little program. I use it for almost all of my online research for articles and whitepapers.

38

More here: At a free speech websit: http://tinyurl.com/mzw7v9

Oh and I think that should have been QB7, the novel from Leon Uris.

39 honest cloud, I'm confused. Are you saying that Tiller didn't kill babies right up to their due date for up to $5000 a pop? I thought that's what he did, in blatant violation of Kansas state law, by the way.

I cannot stand O'Reilly, though, so you're right that I don't know the difference about anything he says.

40 honest cloud, I also don't see where O'Reilly incited anyone to violence. They do kill babies (not just unborn ones) in China and have for 30 years. I don't know about the Soviets or Hitler doing the same thing, but they certainly didn't place an overly high premium on human life. So what's your beef? Do you not like the comparison? And where does the comparison say, "they do this in China - so go kill Tiller now!" Maybe there's a clip of that you could post.

41 To Honest Cloud: YOU LIE!

42

You know, I was going to point out the hypocrocy of the left by wondering if this incident made all pro-abortion people murderers and extrimists.

 

Then I read this:

19 I think the difference here is the pro choice leftists don't encourage the shooting and bombing.

The right wingers on the other hand....

Posted by: honest cloud at September 11, 2009 12:18 PM (4dCEv)

and realised that I couldn't make my point any better. 

43

This is the kind of stuff that happened in Mao's China, Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Soviet Union""operating a death mill""has blood on his hands""executing babies about to be born"

 

Um, stupid, all of that is actually true.

 

44

The shooter also killed the owner of a gravel mine or mill this morning in what the police are now saying is a related killing.

If you thought the left shouldn't have jumped to conclusions about the motives of someone who drove 6 hours to specifically kill Dr. Tiller in church, then you shouldn't jump to conclusions about the motives of this person who killed two people this morning. 

45 honest cloud, I'm confused. Are you saying that Tiller didn't kill babies right up to their due date for up to $5000 a pop? I thought that's what he did, in blatant violation of Kansas state law, by the way.

Posted by: Ella

It is obvious you are confused. It was not in violation of Kansas law.

And he didn't didn't kill babies right up to their due date.

And if you can't see Oreilly's words inciting violence you are hopelessly ignorant.

46 Just remember, all the violence is on the right.

I'm enjoying this dish of lunar green cheese, too.

47 You hateful wingers just don't understand how compassionate it is to leave a partially aborted baby to die in a broom closet.

48 What do mine owners do? They dig holes in the face of precious Mother Gaia.

So gun them down too.

49 Mmm. Maple.

50

Speaking of botched, late-term abortions, hi, dishonest clod! [waves] [guess which finger?]

51
You're all stupid. You can't even argue the issues All you stupid wingnuts know how to do is insult people and call them names.

52 Bill O'Reilly is not my leader, and he is not a leader of the prolife movement. He is a television personality, who I happen to think is an ignorant demagogue. And there is a difference between condemning something vociferously and encouraging violence. My pastor has compared abortion to to the Nazi idea of Life Not Worthy of Life, but he (and no one listening to him would think) that he was encouraging violence. Your moral equivalency is absolutely astonishing.

53

Here it comes. The crazy right wing will contrast the reaction to this incident to the Tiller murder. This 'activist' was a disgusting nut case, showing his disgusting pictures to schoolchildren. Dr. Tiller, on the other hand, was a respected professional with a medical degree, assisting women with the legitimate and urgent medical condition of fetal deadness. He was murdered by a crazy stalker, much like the crazy stalkers who want to poke a stick into the spokes of my bicycle.

Once again, I am taken aback by what political discourse in this country has become.

54 Here look over there!!!

Joe Wilson takes caffeine pills!!!1!!!1!1!1!

Nothing to see here.

55 All you stupid wingnuts know how to do is insult people and call them names.

56 then you shouldn't jump to conclusions about the motives of this person who killed two people this morning.

When you blow someone away in front of a school, you're sending a very public political message.  When you ice them at home, or in some secluded location then its some sort of personal issues shit, bad gambling debt, banging someone's wife, etc.

57

Looks like they have been trying to shut him up for a long time.

Posted by: Cluebat from Exodar at September 11, 2009 12:36 PM (cqZXM)

Gee, that sounds like they were creating a climate where the killer thought it was appropriate to take matters into his own hands.

58
You guys are arguing with a typical stupid moonbat. Nuts like honest cloud believe that calling someone a 'fag' is a hate crime and is the equivalent of assault.

59 @9 LGF will blame Glenn Beck and republican party for this killing

60 Hmm, is that the real or fake Excitable Chucky in comment 53?

61 When you blow someone away in front of a school, you're sending a very public political message.  When you ice them at home, or in some secluded location then its some sort of personal issues shit, bad gambling debt, banging someone's wife, etc.

Posted by: Purple Avenger

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Do you have experience in wanting someone killed and carrying out the act?

I don't either but it sure seems to me one would do it wherever he'd get the best shot. Regardless of the motive.

It's like when I plot the best place to confront and seduce my paper boy. I usually hide in the bushes along his route with a bag full of ju ju bees and a well greased dildo.

62 You're all stupid. You can't even argue the issues All you stupid wingnuts know how to do is insult people and call them names.

I'm impressed at your ability to discuss the issues and not resort to name calling.

And by impressed, I mean amused.

63 You guys are arguing with a typical stupid moonbat. Nuts like honest cloud believe that calling someone a 'fag' is a hate crime and is the equivalent of assault.

Well, the Left also doesn't believe in free speech. A peep out of the right is "dangerous." I'm surprised that deceitful cloud considers comparisons with Mao condemnation.

64

Do you have experience in wanting someone killed and carrying out the act?
I don't either

Outside of your masturbatory fantasies about killing right-wingnuts that drives you to troll the opposition's blogs, don't you mean, clod?

65 Do you have experience in wanting someone killed and carrying out the act?

I don't either but it sure seems to me one would do it wherever he'd get the best shot. Regardless of the motive.

If only you gave the unborn the same benefit of the doubt....

66 And he didn't didn't kill babies right up to their due date.

Sworn affidavits worth anything to you?

67 honest cloud, late term abortions may not be in direct violation of Kansas law. Performing abortions on minors and not turning the data over to the authorities to prosecute statutory rape is a violation, and he did that flagrantly. So, he was the only provider of late term abortions (killing babies up to their due date - what else do you think that is?) and he violated Kansas law. I slurred the two points, but they're both true.

68

 

Honest Cloud,

Honey, Dear, Sweetie.......will you please go make me a sandwhich? Oh, and when your done, will you rub my feet?

Your the Tops...Doll!

69 You guys are arguing with a typical stupid moonbatliberal. Nuts like honest cloud believe that calling someone a 'fag'(fill in the blank) is a hate crime and is the equivalent of assault.

FIFY

70

 

honest cloud,

[slowly unzipping pants]

"Say Hello to my little friend............"

 

71 Check out some of the other Flint Journal coverage for some examples of "fine journalism". In one, they published Pouillard's entire arrest record, 18 items, the last in 2003 -- most of which was petty BS. The commentariat was pretty outraged at that.

72 Do you have experience in wanting someone killed and carrying out the act?

I don't either but it sure seems to me one would do it wherever he'd get the best shot. Regardless of the motive.

And like your god Obama, your opine away even if you haven't got a clue about the matter at hand.

Hint: unless you're itching to be a martyr for your cause, you want to get away with it cleanly. Preferably middle of the night, no witnesses, and a method you can avoid leaving trace evidence as to who dunnit.

In that case, I'd go for the Marines prefered way of eliminating enemy sentries.

73 Honest Cloud has masturbatory fantasies about tossing Barrys salad AND killing right wingnuts. He alternates, just like with his right and left.

74

Keep it clean here folks.

I'm pretty sure Ace doesn't want you to scare off any new sponsors.

Since morons are such terrible tippers.

Please don't feed the trolls.

75

33 It's a peculiar irony that the supporters of a practice in which 50% of the persons involved are intentionally put to death - often a slow and agonizing death - accuse their opponents of a love of violence.

It's also amazing to me how little pro-choice Leftists know about the actual procedures used in abortion.

Besides my wife's first-hand experience as the attending nurse at medical abortions (where she was often the only medical professional in the room, charged with catching the fetus when it was expelled), I have some first-hand experience too.  I worked as a tech for a company called Berkeley Bio-Medical back in 1978.  One of their products was the popular Vacurette^TM machine used for D&C.

D&C is dilation and curettage, in which the gynecologist dilates the cervix to gain access to the interior of the uterus and then uses a bladed instrument, a curette, to scrape out the endometrium, taking the embryonic sac and the embryo or fetus with it.  Of course, sometimes it was necessary to chop up the fetus to get the pieces to fit through the cervical opening.

The Vacurette was a major improvement.  It combined the blade with a vacuum.  The sharp edge was built into a hollow plastic tube so that the doctor could scrape with it and have the tissues be sucked out concurrently.  The tube was rather small, and so it was necessary to nibble off bits of the fetus a piece at a time.

This is still how most abortions are performed today.  Look up an image of a 13-week fetus -- that's still first-trimester -- and see what's being chopped up and sucked out.

Tiller's late-term abortions included fetuses well-able to survive outside the womb.  He used the "partial birth" intact D&E method.  D&E is dilation and extraction, in which the fetus is too well formed and large to nibble away.  The doctor dilates the cervix and then pulls the fetus out.  Sometimes it breaks apart, and the pieces have to be collected so a pathology tech can put them back together and verify that all of the fetus was extracted.  In the second trimester, the D&E method is standard.

For third-trimester abortions, the fetus used to be considered too big for D&E, and they used to use saline abortions.  The doctor injected saline solution into the amniotic sac to kill the baby, and then placed a pessary of hormone-containing substances into the vagina to induce labor.  The woman would then give birth -- stillbirth, to a dead fetus.  If there was a difficulty, if she couldn't push out the fetus, the doctor would then pull it out with a forceps -- again, sometimes piece by piece.

Some bright guy figured out that the mother's labor would be unnecessary in a third-trimester abortion if the baby's head wasn't so big.  Thus the partial-birth method was invented: dilate the cervix, pull the fetus out feet-first, and then suck the brain out of the baby's skull to collapse the head, allowing it to slide right out.  No need for a saline injection: sticking a sharp instrument into the base of the baby's skull kills it right before the doctor inserts the vacuum instrument to suck out the brain.

This is what pro-choice people defend and believe in.  They really think that these things are preferable to "the horrible life an unwanted child experiences" or "the punishment and life-ruining consequences of giving birth to an unwanted child."

76 53 Charles' Johnson

Dr. Tiller, on the other hand, was a respected professional with a medical degree, assisting women with the legitimate and urgent medical condition of fetal deadness needing killedness.

Fixed it for ya.

77

#74 - Sorry.

#75 - Damn. Unbelievable.

78 This is what pro-choice people defend and believe in.

And they call waterboarding torture...

79

Yes Stu, This is what most people don't know.

And people such as Poullion are targets of rage because it is a secret worth keeping.

I want to see the sign he was carrying. I bet it was mild and media will allow us to believe it is a gross fetus or some such thing.

 

80

I wonder if the AP approves of the guys signs?

81 Hint: unless you're itching to be a martyr for your cause, you want to get away with it cleanly. Preferably middle of the night, no witnesses, and a method you can avoid leaving trace evidence as to who dunnit.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie

You have no idea what you are talking about.  None at all.

And assuming he'd want to get away with unless he wanted to be a martyr is at this point nothing but speculation.

82 13 weeks is at the end of the first trimester.  Over 90% of abortions happen well before then.  Why don't you show a picture of a 7 week fetus (which would be the "average") and tell us the size of it?

83 I 100% support abortion...for Honest Clod.

84

A few blog posts and comments from Dr. Tiller’s former patients:

I looked at the woman as she cried about the baby she wanted so badly, & looked in horror at the films showing the cancer eating the child alive. The pain this child must be in & the cries of the parents as they don’t want to let go. Then I hear Dr. Tiller say…”You are so amazing…all the pain your baby is in & you are going to selflessly take that away. You are being strong for him. You are giving him peace he will never know.” 2 days later I cleaned & dressed that little boy before the parents viewed him. The ghastly tumor that had grown through his chest & out his spine a horrific parasite, & a stark reminder of the life he could never have. I watched this little angle at peace & I cried. For all of them. And I felt blessed to be a part of such a wonderful man, who could look in the face of utter hopelessness, & give them comfort. That child was taken home & lovingly laid to rest. That day is how I will remember Dr. Tiller. May his family find the peace he gave so openly.

85 In October of 2004, I was pregnant with my sons Nicholas and Zachary. With great joy and expectation, my husband, my best friend, and I visited my doctor for a normal growth ultrasound. I was nearly 23 weeks pregnant, hovering at the start of the third trimester. Within moments it was clear something was wrong; one of the boys was still and had no heartbeat. When I met with my doctor, routine screening revealed the worst: the symptoms I’d been experiencing that I thought were normal with a twin pregnancy were actually evidence that I was sick — very, very sick. I was immediately admitted to the hospital with severe preeclampsia, and though my doctors tried mightily to slow the progression of the disease, by the morning of October 27, 2004, a group of doctors stood at my bedside and delivered the worst news I’d ever received.

I was in advanced kidney failure. My blood pressure was skyrocketing, and it could not be controlled with medications. My liver was beginning to decline. The horrific headache I was experiencing could no longer be treated with pain medications because they were afraid it would depress my ability to breathe when I began to have the seizures they expected at any moment. I would soon likely suffer a stroke or a heart attack. In other words, I was going to die unless the pregnancy was terminated. Immediately.

There was no hope for my surviving son. He was too tiny and too frail to be viable. With my dangerously high blood pressure, a c-section would have likely caused me to bleed to death, and inducing labor would have stressed my system too much. My safest option was the procedure known as an intact dilation and extraction. It would save my life

86
clod also finds the same kind of 'humanity' in Stalin and Hitler

87

So..abortions occasionally are necessary to save lives.

That means everyone is entitled to unrestricted abortions on demand.

M'kay.

88
It doesn't even strike clod as even the slightest bit odd that a doctor would devote his life to aborting unborn babies.

Not at all strange that a man, a doctor, would get out of bed every morning to kill babies. The 'doctor' killed thousands of babies and it doens't even occur to clod that it is ghoulish and macabre.

It isn't normal, in the least, for any human being to gleefully deal with that amount of blood and carnage day after day.

These things, these facts of life, have never occurred to moonbats such as clod.

89 "So..abortions occasionally are necessary to save lives."

Yep. And Dr. Tiller was one of three to perform them.

Until you crazy bastards villainized him and some nut believed you and shot him.

90

Honest cloud, is it your contention that the Good Doctor performed only life-saving abortions and that the mistaken belief that he killed healthy babies is what led to his demise?

This is a Yes or No question.

91 "It doesn't even strike clod as even the slightest bit odd that a doctor would devote his life to aborting unborn babies."

You are right.

Heroic? Yes. Saving womens lives under the threat of death from one of you kooks takes sack.

Dr. Tiller was brave and a hero to women.

92

Clod.

Alstublieft.

http://tinyurl.com/2jstwo

 

93
He was a ghoul, not a hero.

Deep inside you know that, too. Just like how you know that the anger and hatred you project on us is really what you feel for yourself. You're pitiful, clod. I feel sorry for you.

94 She's seen a colleague watch a baby in the specimen bucket start to breathe, and rush it to the neonatal intensive care unit -- and then seen that baby go home with its mother a few weeks later.

Good God.

(And that isn't grounds for terminating the parental rights?  Seriously?)

95 Dr. Tiller was brave and a hero to women.

Posted by: honest cloud at September 11, 2009 01:57 PM (4dCEv)

You're demented you pitiful turd.

96

Thank you for posting this Gabe. This gentleman has been a prominent and controversial figure in our small town for as long as I can remember. I grew up in Owosso, and I remember having conversations specifically about him and, more specifically, his signs, in middle and high school back in the mid-late 80's. 

He was always there, almost every day, standing on the corner across the street from the planned parenthood office. I often wondered how he supported himself financially as he seemed to be at that corner every time I passed it. I don't know if it is true, but I credit him and his signs as the reason the planned parenthood office moved outside city limits a few years back.

Lately, he carried a sign with two sides: one side had a graphic picture of an aborted child; the other side had a picture of a baby, probably 6 months old, with the word LIFE below it.

He was instrumental in starting many difficult but necessary conversations between children and their parents over the years. I remember vividly when I asked my parents what an abortion was after passing him on the street, and, more recently, when my children asked the same of my wife and I.

97 You have no idea what you are talking about. None at all.

No, you're right. I have idea what I'm talking about on your side of the Looking Glass.

On this side, tho, in the Real Word™ murders try to get away with it. Unless they have a statement to make, in which case the video tape a farewell message and blow their own brains out, or choose the death by cop suicide method.

They dont' get busted in their own home.

98 At present this appears to have no direct connection to his anti-abortion activism. We'll see.

99

At present this appears to have no direct connection to his anti-abortion activism. We'll see.

Given the date and recent changes in nearby demographics, it wouldn't suprise me if this were a case of sudden jihad syndrome.

100 On this side, tho, in the Real Word™ murders try to get away with it. Unless they have a statement to make, in which case the video tape a farewell message and blow their own brains out, or choose the death by cop suicide method.

They dont' get busted in their own home.
Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie

Please quit while you're behind.

I'm sure it's totally impossible for the shooter to be mentally ill.

That NEVER happens.

Good God you people are ignorant dopes.

101

Posted by: honest cloud at September 11, 2009 02:55 PM (4dCEv)

You know what's a fun game? Sticking your head in a wood chipper. Now run along and have some fun.

102

"Do you have experience in wanting someone killed and carrying out the act?

I don't either"

Is there where the "lol" goes?

 

103 Ok ok    This 'honest' cloud needs to go.

You can't have your own realities.  Opinions, fine.  Realities, no. 

@75

You just brought me off the fence on that issue.  I landed on the 'take responsibility for your own actions' side.

I can believe that tools were designed for such a vile act. 

Vomit inducing

104 Oh BOO HOO!!  Yes it is sad that someone got shot for their beliefs. However, how many people have been killed for being pro-choice? Tons. I'm not saying that it's about time for a pro-lifer to get a taste of heir own medicine...well, maybe I am saying that. So there, it's said. As shallow as it is, it's true. Som people state that they can't believe that someone would shoot an elderly man who has an oxygen tank and is disabled...that makes no difference. It's the mind that is strong, look at Stephen Hawking...quadraplegic...is he helpless? NO, so this man wasn't either, he was fueld by his beliefs, just as many others are..and he payed the price as many others have. If he is a martyr...then so are the doctors and nurses who are involved with terminating a pregnancy.

105 Ok ok    This 'honest' cloud needs to go.

Posted by: MelodicMetal

Yep, it's tough getting your ass handed to you every day being called out on your ignorance.

And the best solution is obviously to silence the ones who point out your stupidity.

And voila! You won't be stupid any more.

106 @99 -- He offed the gravel guy first. (He was a trucker, 33, new to area). It might have been that he just saw Pouillon, got pissed, and figured that after the first, the rest were free. There was supposed to be a sheriff's presser at 3 but I've seen nothing from that yet.

107

Right wing extremists think that culling this annoying weirdo somehow balances out the Tiller murder. I can tell what these scum think, it's easy - just read a few comments somewhere on the internet and there it is. "By a single crime, know the nation."  The issue is not, repeat not, any myopic, cynical, politically-driven double standard employed by President Obama, esq., or other comparable celebrities such as myself.  Don't imagine for a moment that the right wing extremists condemn both murders equally; they all, every one of them, think Tiller deserved to die. They all, to the last man, think that showing disgusting aborted fetus pictures to schoolchildren is a good thing. I, in contrast, think killing human beings is bad, and that is why I support abortion rights, and went on and on about the deep significance of Tiller's murder, but have had nothing to say about this recent cull, except to condemn rightwing extremists, who are not strawmen, but real. They stalk me every day with their bicycle wheel destroying sticks.

I lament the current political climate. Neither the President nor I get the respect that we deserve.  I deplore the prim, ego-driven hypocrisy and personality cults of the Lunatic Right, so different from the healthy, sane climate at LGF.

108 So TIller, the guy who killed unborn babies, gets shot. Reaction: "OMG A MARTYR! LET'S ALL KEEP UP HIS WONDERFUL WORK HELPING PEOPLE!"

Guy who carries a sign showing pictures of what Tiller did for a living: "HE TOTALLY HAD IT COMING! HE PROBABLY RAPED A TEEN AND FORCED HER TO CARRY TO TERM! MAYBE EVEN INCEST!"

I'm not kidding. Look around, a lot of the moonbats are saying this stuff. The cognitive dissonance is amazing.

By the way, I'm familiar with Cecily's story (about the twins Nicholas and Zachary). I don't know if Honest Cloud is Cecily or just quoting her - she's written about it a lot. I have every sympathy in the world for what she went through - severe pre-e is no joke, and her babies had to be delivered to save her life. However, you'll notice that Dr. Tiller was not the one delivering her children. Her doctor at her own hospital was - because she was in danger of her life. Nobody, nowhere is saying that women should die of pre-eclampsia because their children are too young to be delivered - hell, even the Catholic church doesn't endorse that. What the church says is that it is licit to deliver babies before they're viable to save the mother's life. What is NOT licit is to deliberately kill them.

Incidentally, I'd be curious to know how many abortions Tiller did to save the mother's life (as opposed to killing an ill or "imperfect" baby). Do people really think that he was the court of last resort for a severely ill woman with pre-eclampsia? What, they'd get on a plane and fly out to Kansas? No, these pregnancies are ended all the time in ordinary hospitals. Tiller didn't have a damn thing to do with emergency situations like these.

Sorry, but the "Pro-lifers want mothers to DIE!" really chaps me. Tiller was not saving women's lives - he was destroying the lives of their children, and a lot of these children could have lived long, albeit handicapped lives. Cecily's story, as tragic as it is, is also a red herring.

109 To #75..."This is what pro-choice people defend and believe in.  They really think that these things are preferable to "the horrible life an unwanted child experiences" or "the punishment and life-ruining consequences of giving birth to an unwanted child."  Are you serious? I am pro-choice, pro-abortion! I do not defend late-term pregnancy, I do think it is despicable...but it should be a CHOICE. I would rather it be done earlier, yes...and I do believe that there should be penalties on those that choose late-term, and there should be "special circumstances" laws as well. But DO NOT go thinking that you know what I believe and defend! You could very well be faced with a choice that will make you see the truth.

110 Harlan J. Drake, 33 of Owosso.
It was premeditated.. he was going for a realtor but got arrested. He had grudges against all 3. So maybe this isn't a "pro-choice murder"

111

it's about time for a pro-lifer to get a taste of heir own medicine...well, maybe I am saying that. So there, it's said. As shallow as it is, it's true. Som people state that they can't believe that someone would shoot an elderly man who has an oxygen tank and is disabled...that makes no difference. It's the mind that is strong, look at Stephen Hawking...quadraplegic...is he helpless? NO, so this man wasn't either, he was fueld by his beliefs, just as many others are..and he payed the price as many others have. If he is a martyr...then so are the doctors and nurses who are involved with terminating a pregnancy. 

Stop...imitating...my...punctuation!

112 Incidentally, I'd be curious to know how many abortions Tiller did to save the mother's life (as opposed to killing an ill or "imperfect" baby). Do people really think that he was the court of last resort for a severely ill woman with pre-eclampsia? What, they'd get on a plane and fly out to Kansas?Tiller didn't have a damn thing to do with emergency situations like these.

 Tiller was not saving women's lives

 Posted by: Sonetka

Yes Tiller was the court of last resort.

Yes, some women got on a plane and flew to Kansas, and some drove.

And Tiller had everything to do with late term abortions to save the life of the mother.

And some nut bought into the right wingers lies and shot him.

113 'Honest' Clod hopper...

Getting my ass handed to me, eh?  I believe YOU wer ethe one who just got smacked upside the head with sworn affidavits if I'm not mistaken, you troll.

Yes, tiller DID perform late term abortions, you ignorant pile of puke.

Please inform me of you handing my ass to me. 

Once you cobble together you 8 brain cells to take me up on my challenge, I'll be here waiting... in 15 years. 

Oh and by the way, the drool is dripping of of your helmet strap and onto the keyboard.  See to that, would you?

114

Honest asshole:

Bullshit: And Tiller had everything to do with late term abortions to save the life of the mother.

Why not just deliver the babies of the women with preeclampsia? Why murder them? These late term babies can be delivered--NOT burned alive or torn apart. What idiot would think that only killing the baby could save the mother? If she's in good enough shape to travel to Kansas and have a late term abortion, she is in good enough shape to have a C-section. 

115 Yeah Tiller just liked killing babies and was a reprehensible human being, but that doesn't make murdering him okay. Not any more than it makes President Obama's hasty condemnation of the act while blowing off the death of a murdered soldier for several days.

116 "Why not just deliver the babies of the women with preeclampsia? Why murder them? These late term babies can be delivered--NOT burned alive or torn apart."

It is not murder. What Dr. Tiller did was legal.

And the fetuses could not be delivered due to the risk to the mother's life.

And you really so fucking stupid to think anyone would perform this gory procedure unless it was the last choice?

117 >>I can't help but wonder...<<

Of course you can't. You're borderline sentient.

118

I'm in Michigan, not too far from Owosso. 

The most disturbing part of this story is the quote the AP chose to run from a student:

“I can see someone spitting on him or punching him, but shooting him is pretty stupid. It’s not something you expect in Owosso,” said 16-year-old Curtis Wisterman.

Nice quote, Curtis.  I'm sure your parents are proud.

119 Arlene, here's a choice for you.

Ball or hollow-point?

120

And you really so fucking stupid to think anyone would perform this gory procedure unless it was the last choice?

It is murder. Of course they would perform this procedure as a first choice. He profited by killing babies. People like Tiller, Obama, Pelosi et al think of abortion as a good thing. It is, as you said, legal. What's the problem? It is the sacrament of the left. At that, you fucking slimy piece of shit, is one of the main reasons the left is evil. Ruth Bader Ginsberg thought that abortion would get rid of more of the "undesirables". She and her ilk have no concept of the dignity of human life.

121

No use arguing with any leftists on this issue - they don't give a damn who gets killed, whether it be baby, doctor, etc...

It's very simple - if a person accepts the extreme pro-abortion position (the concept that terminating a fetus is just a choice to be made by the mother), they have no moral compass and are unable to discuss the issue of abortion in serious terms. 

This might make some of us sad because we have loved ones, friends, etc. who take this position, but it's still true.

If you don't believe that a developing human being has an inherent right to EXIST, what MUST you believe about the value of human life?

Personally, I just don't discuss it anymore, and I don't vote for "pro-choice" candidates, no matter what party they represent.  I don't have close friends who are "pro-choice" because I know that I will never truly be a CLOSE friend with anyone whose moral compass is diametrically opposed to mine. 

Call me "close-minded" if you must, but I think the abortion issue is defining.  A person's position on abortion tells me a great deal about who they are and what they believe.  I choose NOT to associate myself with those who deny the sacred nature of human life.

 

122

109 Arlene

I'm not clear: you say, "I do not defend late-term pregnancy, I do think it is despicable...but it should be a CHOICE. I would rather it be done earlier, yes...and I do believe that there should be penalties on those that choose late-term, and there should be 'special circumstances' laws as well."

Does that mean that you think women should be able to choose to do the despicable and elect to have late-term abortions?

So it's BOTH despicable AND an acceptable choice?  How do you tie yourself into the moral, ethical and cognitive knot that somehow makes it both?

Is that what you defend and believe in?

123 Are the left the only ones having abortions? If so you should ease up your stance because years from now with all the trailer babies you guys are having there will be more conservative hillbillies and then you'll have the majority. You gotta look to the future.

124

82 13 weeks is at the end of the first trimester.  Over 90% of abortions happen well before then.  Why don't you show a picture of a 7 week fetus (which would be the "average") and tell us the size of it?

Sure.  Here's the picture of the 7 week fetus.

In fact, here, here's a video animation of the first 9 weeks of fetal development.  Knock yourself out.

125

108 Sonetka

Right on.  Aborting a pregnancy due to eclampsia threatening to kill the mother isn't an elective procedure.  (Unless the mother elects NOT to have the procedure as an act of faith and hope.)

Aborting a pregnancy because the mother doesn't feel like carrying the baby anymore is elective -- the "choice" in "pro-choice."

126 I work in Owosso and have seen this man downtown for ages, since I was in high school.  I never saw him do anything more than stand on the corner with his sign.

Very sad, indeed.

127 Honest Cloud: In a word, bullshit. Show me ONE documented case of a woman whose life was in clear danger driving or flying to Kansas so that Tiller could save her life by an abortion. Do you really think that any doctor, having diagnosed a woman with pre-eclampsia or eclampsia, would be willing to refer her to a doctor in another state and just let her walk out the door? Do you even know what these conditions are like and what could have happened in the interim? I don't want sad stories of ill women who had abortions not done by Tiller. I want someone whose life was in immediate danger, driving or flying across the state or states because her evil doctor at home thought pregnant women deserved to die if they weren't far along enough for the baby to be viable.

Stuiec - Thanks. Cecily's case is an odd one - she's always been very pro-choice but the tragedy of her twins seems to have convinced her that most abortions are like hers and that people like Tiller are the last hope for mothers like her to survive. Why she thinks this, given that he wasn't even her doctor, I can't imagine. Also, I know a girl tangentially from college who worked for PP for a long time and who was all weepy when Tiller was killed, reminiscing about the "desperate patients" they'd referred to him because they were over 24 weeks. Some of them had babies with spinal bifida, some with Down's, others with less survivable conditions. Some were just too far along and freaked out and didn't want it. None of them had life-threatening health conditions, and you can bet she'd have mentioned it if they had, to add a bit more shine to Tiller's halo.

128 OK it looks like this was a case of murder because of the guy's position on abortion. Very sad but, unlike abortionists being killed, consistent with the worldview: murder at any age.

129

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130 I followed the post for a couple of days but was waiting for it to be updated with comments by the President. Well, it wasn't updated but yes, Obama condemned this murder as "deplorable" in much the same way as the Tiller murder. Read here for more:

And one more thing, commenter #31, I'd hate to pick on just you but "You Lie" and have no idea what you're talking about and have probably been brainwashed by right-wing liars or LaRouches freaks. Anyone who seriously thinks Obama is a Marxist or socialist is dead wrong, can not be taken seriously and is plain ignorant on what those terms actually mean.

The truth is, thanks to Dems and some Republicans over the years, we have semi-socialist health care systems in this country that in no way threatens capitalism, and thank goodness we have them: TriCare/Veterans Administration, SCHIP, Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security. No one should be against those programs, but you should be for fixing them (funding issues, fraud, wasteful spending, etc.). And if you DO like them and STILL rail against government involvement in health care and call it outright socialism, again, you're clueless and a gawd damn hypocrite too (because you may use at least one of them someday in your lifetime).

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