1Off topic
Fox News this a.m. told about a guy twittering about what his dad says.....best laugh I have had since o was elected

If you'd like to be "off topic," thr Overnight Oprn Thread is still up and running. This post has a topic.

5"Tragically, two firefighters (so far) have sacrificed their lives fighting this fire."

No. 
These two firefighters died as a result of an accident while fleeing the fast-moving fire after they were in a specific location for too long.  They went off-road (for reasons as-of-yet undetermined) and plunged down a 800-foot cliff.
Tragic? Yes, definitely. 
However, to consider what essentially was an accident as homicide is a bit of a stretch.

As I recall, a couple of firefighters lost their lives at the WTC and none of them were actually fighting a fire either (it was way way above them as I've been told.) Of course they too were in a specific location for too long. If they'd only realized the futility of the situation and started back downstairs a little earlier, they might have survived as well.

See? I can be semantically idiotic as well.

If you'd like to be "off topic," thr Overnight Oprn Thread is still up and running. This post has a topic.

Posted by: genghis at September 05, 2009 09:27 AM (1XErj)

I'm sorry genghis.  After I hit post on the Int'l. Bacon day, I thought 'well, that was inappropriate considering the thread topic.'  If we had a delete facility on posts, I would have used it.  If you like, you can remove my post.

I'm sorry genghis.  After I hit post on the Int'l. Bacon day, I thought 'well, that was inappropriate considering the thread topic.'  If we had a delete facility on posts, I would have used it.  If you like, you can remove my post.

No harm, no foul. I just wanted to mention that it's still an active thread.

Yep, as the post says: and now those little critters (if they haven't been charred themselves) live in a charred moonscape.  So much for preserving their pristine environment. 

Environazis: bad for the environment, and bad for you too

The idiotic regulations that forbid homeowners from clearing dead and dry brush from around their houses, as well as the same in publicly owned forests shows the true intent of the eco-movement.

There is absolutely no ecological benefit from such a stupid policy and there is, as all these huge fires show, a huge ecological down side.  The only thing gained is more government control and that equals fascism.

If I owned a home in one of these areas I would clear the brush. If a stupid eco-terrorist came around to agitate about it I would blow his freakin head off and bury him in his beloved environment.

That is what people should really start doing. Soon the idiots would get the message.

Does California have the death penalty? I had thought they got rid of it back in the 70's, which is why Charles Manson still walks the Earth.

Manson’s death penalty was commuted back when the SCOTUS ruled ALL death penalties were “cruel and unusual punishment”. Since then the courts have reversed that to where “only some are cruel and unusual”.

CA does have a death penalty now.

I am intrigued by your ideas and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

My newsletter is simple; it is entitled Common Sense.

See? I can be semantically idiotic as well.

That's a little unfair; he does have a point to some degree.

They article talks about manslaughter charges even if the fire was accidentally set.  I certainly don't condone throwing cigarettes out the window, but I'm guessing it happens thousands of times a day- just walk down the shoulder of a highway sometime.  If 1000 people throw a cigarette out the window- 999 of which don't start a fire- is it really justice that the one guy who's cig did start the fire is guilty of manslaughter and the other 999 are guilty of littering?  They all performed the same act.

In the case of the firefighters who died in the accident, they did die fighting the fire even if it was a vehicle accident- they were put in a hazardous situation they wouldnt' have otherwise been in.  But where's the line?  Driving to the fire?  Driving home?

They're talking the death penalty for someone who very well may have had zero intention of actually hurting anyone; meanwhile someone who gets into an argument with a neighbor and shoots them in the head gets second degree murder.  Again- not defending arsonists here; anyone who deliberately sets a forest fire deserves harsh punishment.  But more harsh than someone who intentionally murdered someone?  Something about that tweaks my "just don't seem right" meter.

If I make a false alarm and an old lady is run over by the fire truck responding,

Am I up for manslaughter charges?

>Like I said, the loss of these two firefighters' lives is tragic, but it's being blown a bit out of proportion.

Would you be willing to say this to the firefighters' families?

25Does California have the death penalty?

It was suspended for a time in the 70s which is the gaping loophole Manson walked through. Dunno' if they've actually started carrying it out since it was reinstated. Gabe's the blog attorney and also lives in Cal., so he should be showing up as soon as the hangover starts to settle down.

There is plenty of legal precedent for charging someone with murder if a person dies as a result of another felony being committed, even if the death is indirect (depending on the jurisdiction). Cali law seems to be a bit more narrow in the application as you can tell by reading the LA Times article. In order to seek the death penalty the prosecuters need to prove that the intent was to kill someone. It's probably way more than a stretch if they need to prove the intent was to kill these two specific firefighters, but the gray area might be if they can prove that the intent was to do harm to anyone in general. Again, ask Gabe if & when he shows up.

What about Greens committing manslaughter and/or murder?

Australia, 2009: During question time at a packed community meeting in Arthurs Creek on Melbourne's northern fringe, Warwick Spooner — whose mother Marilyn and brother Damien perished along with their home in the Strathewen blaze — criticised the Nillumbik council for the limitations it placed on residents wanting the council's help or permission to clean up around their properties in preparation for the bushfire season. "We've lost two people in my family because you dickheads won't cut trees down," he said. "We wanted trees cut down on the side of the road … and you can't even cut the grass for God's sake."

California, 2009: The blaze has destroyed more than five dozen homes, killed two firefighters and forced thousands of people to flee... Biologist Ileene Anderson with the Center for Biological Diversity, an environmental organization, said burn permits should be difficult to get because of the potential damage to air quality. Clearing chaparral by hand or machine must be closely scrutinized because it can hurt native species."

There have been 13 people executed in CA since the death penalty was reinstated. The last one was in 2006.

Contrast that with TX which has had 423 in the same time frame.

There is a huge gulf, particularly since they both have similar laws for what  crimes receive the death penalty.

Makes you wonder don’t it.

Biologist Ileene Anderson with the Center for Biological Diversity, an environmental organization,

Prime example of eco-terrorists who deserve the death penalty.

eco-wienies may be in love with old growth forests

I don’t have a problem with the people who are “in love with old growth forests”.  The problem is with these stupid laws which don’t protect a damn thing.

That's a little unfair; he does have a point to some degree.

Of course, and it's still not certain it was arson. The prosecutor lays out a range of possible charges. The article probably focuses on the worst possible outcome just to be sensational. If it was arson probably about the most severe thing they could go for is manslaughter (see comment 36 above). However, "SomeDudeFromLa" is arguing that the deaths and the fire are essentially unrelated, which is flat-out wrong. If there was no fire the firefighters might've been back at the station polishing up the engine. What you're asking (and it's within reason to ask) is how many degrees of separation is there and can you make the case that the firefighters died as a result, however indirectly, of an arsonist's actions? I dunno.' That's why trials are held. I do know that it's been successfully used to convict people before.

I agree with Ileene, the lady with that bullshit job.

It' s hard to scrutinze stuff like clearing brush by hand or machine, so why don't we just burn all the native species critters and chaparral vegetation to a crisp  in a big-ass 300,000-acre fire and not worry about it?

Probably would make a decent soup ingredient.

Too gassy would be my guess. (Bean eating for the protein etc.)

Just think of all the CO2and methane that would be saved if ALL the eco-idiots in CA were executed.

If I make a false alarm and an old lady is run over by the fire truck responding,

There have been 13 people executed in CA since the death penalty was reinstated. The last one was in 2006.

Contrast that with TX which has had 423 in the same time frame.

There is a huge gulf, particularly since they both have similar laws for what  crimes receive the death penalty.

Makes you wonder don’t it.

Posted by: Vic at September 05, 2009 10:36 AM (CDUiN)

>If it DOES turn out to be some ELF or HUORN or some other bunch of Leftards

ELF claims responsibility for destroying radio towers near Seattle

Just watched a little of “Forbes on Fox” and I was reminded of why I quit watching these Sat morning shows that are supposed to be about the economy.  The commie who weighs in from San Francisco just gave his 2 cents on the fires, insurance, and the government.  Supposedly the “government” is subsidizing the insurance of these people whose homes are burning down. (first I have heard of this)

His point was that if people want to live in these “burn zones” then they should pay the total cost through higher insurance. What neither he, nor any of the other assholes mentioned was the eco-idiot laws that will not allow them to clear away dry brush. 

I’m all for getting the government out of the insurance business, as well as the “disaster recovery” bailout business.  But let’s get the government totally out of it and let’s do it on a nationwide basis. No more commie/fascist laws on what you can’t do on your own property and then no more money to New Orleans, no more money to Florida, and no more money to flood zones near the Mississippi river. Also, get rid of federal flood insurance.

Maybe then Myrtle Beach will go back to the sleepy little village that it was in the early 60s when you could actually drive through there.

I used to live in Los Angeles, and one of the crazier things you would read about, especially after a major fire, was that all homes in the canyons above LA were REQUIRED to have wood shingle roofs. Stupidest zoning law I have ever heard of.

One thing though. During fire season, there signs all around the canyons stating that you had to extinguish all cigarettes, even in your car. As best I can recall, the fine was pretty substantial, like $500 or so.

And this was a good 20yrs ago.

California does have a death penalty, but in actual practice, it is rarely applied due to a full time industry of appeals which employs armies of lawyers.

Who pays for this army of lawyers?  Are they all “public defenders” or are they working “pro-bono”?

Yes.

And they looked at my asshole first thing.

Andycanuck at #38 and eman at #47, the greenies keep citing Australia's originial inhabitants as being the best at managing the Australian volatile environment yet they fail to acknowledge that their very particular method of hunting actually changed the entire enviroment and made it susceptible to its present predicament.  Aboriginal Australians were simply hunters and employed fire in trapping game.  When they burned off the vulnerable vegetation all that was left were the eucalypts which require fire to generate and re-generate.  As a result Australian environment is now at the mercy of bushfires at regular intervals. 

Now, to get to Californian fires, not only do you have a dry climate similar to Australia but sometime in the nineteenth century you imported eucalypts which you thought would survive in that dry environment.  Well, guess what?  They survived alright, and along with your other flamable vegetation they are now part of the fire cycle.

Are you guys sure it's not 5:00 on Friday?

No, this is Sat. Sept. 5, 2011.

Why do you ask?

I AM pissed.

I just went to check on the time for the GA/OK State game which was supposed to air on ABC at 3:30 today.  It was not there. I went to the home page of our local ABC affiliate and they had posted a retraction on the game.

ABC told them that they MUST air the Wake Forest game. ABC sold the rights to the GA game to ESPN who will broadcast it on their “Game Plan” setting.  Note that the “game plan” setting cost you an extra fortune to get. ($135.00 for one freakin season of football on sat TV).

ABC screws us again

 . . . it's called stewardship, the eco-wienies may be in love with old growth forests, and perhaps they should be sent there to live, one with the land, and not come out again.

I strongly object.

I strongly object.

Posted by: Bigfoot at September 05, 2009 12:06 PM (o9F/l)

Not me. Thos eco-wienies are chewy on the outside, crunchy on the inside.

NOM NOM NOM

>Admittedly, present day is not the best time to make them face reality especially when MSM is so skewed against real science as opposed to the 'environmental science'. 

Are you kidding? Greenies love fire- in their universe, it supports the 'global warming' hypothesis- fuck all if homes are destroyed and lives lost- it's for the cause

also: When will Obama blame the previous administration for the fires?

I wonder if anyone has tried suing any environazi group?

It was tried very early in this process. The liberal courts deemed them to be “slapp suits” and not only do they get thrown out, but the filers have to pay costs, unlike any OTHER law suit filers. 

With our current legal system which is owned lock stock and barrel by the commies you just can not win.

#80, Jones, you are right, greenies love nothing better than a good disaster however, in Australia, with its long tradition of summer bushfires, that does not always play the way they would want.  Only recently, say in the last ten to fifteen years, have local and state governments deferred to the green philosophy to leave the enviroment alone.  The result has been disastrous for human lives and property.  The normal practice was to carry out winter backburning which was erecting firebreaks and buring sections of forests where fuel-load had built up to critical levels. 

Australian forests are now almost all eucalypt-based which means that leaves are shed throught the year and do not rot but build up until a fire comes through burning up the deposited vegetation.  This serves a dual purpose of getting rid of the built up fuel-load as well as triggering a new wave of seed generation.

European settlers soon worked out out what was going on and instituted winter  backburning to safeguard towns, homestead and farms.  Modern greenies are are very anti-farming, anti-capitalism, anti-you-name it and therefore last summer's catastophy.

#83, I do know how to spell catastrophe, it's just that my keyboard is not always cooperative.

These eco-idiot policies really show what is behind the “green” movement both here in the U.S. and worldwide.

Prior to 1974 the eco movement was made up primarily by the Gaia types who were the granola/arugula munching insane types who liked to dance naked beneath a full moon and worshiped “the goddess”.  These people were a small and ignored group often ridiculed by the press and the general public.

In 1974 the U.S. ended its participation in the Vietnam war. There was an entire host of anti-war protestors and radical who had been funded by the Soviet communists throughout their history that no longer had a purpose in life.  The Soviets still had all this money for funding anti U.S. and anti-capitalist causes.  So lo and behold; the watermelon was born.

All of those fervent anti-war freaks moved to the green movement.  Check out our man Czar Jones. 

The green movement of today is made up communist agitators and they have the backing of the “press” which was taken over by the communists back in the 30s.

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