1 This is the subject of wager between me and my husband.  He believes the lack of public support will kill the bill.  I believe the b**tards will pass it anyway.  I'm usually the optimistic one of us, but I am not feeling good about this.

2 Remember people, this abomination of a bill impacts every one of us. Obama wants a single payer system, so eventually, every single one of us will be told that we're not worth the money that it takes to cure our ills when we get past the age of 40.

3 Obama's said he's willing to be a one-termer, shoving a politically unpopular socialist agenda down America's throat, if that's what it takes.  And I believe him.

So do I. 
That  is one of the most scariest aspects about him..

4 Obama's confession that he was sent to the White House by his managers to get this done, even if it means his job, was an interesting one. It appears that ACORN, SEIU, Open Society Institute and affiliated causes are much stronger than many would anticipate.

We need to watch all funds being appropriated, especially re-examining the slush fund stimulus bill to expose more of these organizations in on the attack on America.

Incidentally, I love these town halls the people are organizing. If your employee at work was off mismanaging company funds, buying personal jets for global travel, signing up trillions in debt obligations that you'll have to pay back on to the Chinese, and was jeopardizing the very existence of your firm (while lining their pockets with cash), you would not wait for them to call a meeting to discuss their misconduct. You'd schedule that meeting yourself and tell them to get their ass there, or else face termination.

Let's step up the action on these people. Micromanage their schedule. Invite alternative candidates in to speak, even if your employee Congressperson attends. Let them have balanced speaking time at your direction, not us being balanced with Acorn thugs. We can take back the management of this country now.

5 Malkin on CSPAN right now.

6 Sorry, OT so near to breakfast:

Museum May Get Helen Thomas Sculpture

DEARBORN, Mich. -- The Arab American National Museum in Dearborn could land a sculpture of veteran White House correspondent Helen Thomas.

Spokeswoman Kim Silarski said Friday the museum, which already displays one of Thomas' vintage typewriters, was approached by former White House photographer Susan Tinsley McElhinney.
McElhinney sculpted a clay version of a Thomas bust.
Donations are being sought for the tribute.
Thomas was born to Lebanese immigrants in Winchester, Ky., and raised in Detroit, where she graduated from Wayne State University.

7   Kind of related (from my hometown) - one of the better, if older, hospitals is being eyeballed by the county for purchase.  Needless to say, the medical staff's reaction is "eff THAT- i'm outta here".  Fortunately Houston has plenty of fake doctors to step in and fill the breach, slicing out tonsils and sawing off legs to fill the county coffers.  An example of the realities behind health care insurance reform on a small scale.

^{Retaining the hospital's physicians and their private-insurance patients is crucial if the hospital district wants to avoid imposing a tax increase, as it has stated. Such patients help defray the cost of care to indigent patients the hospital district serves.}

^{“If the district thinks they can do this without raising taxes, they're insane,” said Dr. Michael Kleinman, a Memorial Hermann Southwest surgeon. “It might take a while, but there's going to be an exodus of doctors from here.}

8 Did any of the CT group go to Courtney's town hall in Woodstock CT?  I had to pick up my son at the hospital and could not attend.  I get his emails bragging about how many billions cap and trade will save etc. but nothing on the meeting until a National Tax payer group email a day before.

I feel I could probably beg and yell until blue in the face and it would be a nod, polite email and then vote for it anyway.

Dodd is not worth the time of day to contact, maybe Lieberman might object to a provision that set seniors on fire after age 70

9  sculpted a clay version of a Thomas bust

Wonder how the got the clay boobs to hang all the way to the floor.  Maybe those are the pedastal for the sculpture?

10 Anybody hear Beck's radio show on Friday? I'm usually hot/cold on the guy but he's taking this whole designed implosion/Cloward-Piven view pretty much to its logical and frightening conclusion. Recall that op-ed in the WSJ by the ex-KGB guy predicting our collapse in 2010.

11

#4 If your employee at work was off mismanaging company funds, buying personal jets for global travel, signing up trillions in debt obligations that you'll have to pay back on to the Chinese, and was jeopardizing the very existence of your firm (while lining their pockets with cash), you would not wait for them to call a meeting to discuss their misconduct. You'd schedule that meeting yourself and tell them to get their ass there, or else face termination.

Actually, that never occurred to me before but is absolutely correct.  Why aren't people scheduling their own townhall meetings and requiring the Reps to attend to account for their actions?

12 Obama's confession that he was sent to the White House by his managers to get this done, even if it means his job, was an interesting one.

Where is this?

13 I believe that Obama is so arrogant and stupid that he'll force Reid and Pelosi to go nuclear to pass this bill.  Barry's ego is all wrapped up in it.  If it does pass, and is rammed through, they can kiss the Democratic Party goodbye.  Especially if it's entirely along party lines.

14 We need to watch all funds being appropriated, especially re-examining the slush fund stimulus bill to expose more of these organizations in on the attack on America.

It's very Leviathan maddening whats been created. If you assume a certain level of fraud, even as conservative as 1%, for every gov't spending initiative, its almost a certainty that the acceptable margins of fraud in the stimulus have been distributed to every leftist cause. These groups are probably sitting on billions in reserve war chests for a rainy day.

15 As I've said before, by the time the blue dogs get it through their heads that obeying Pelosi is suicide, it will already be too late.  I think it's too late now.  The Democrats will not be forgiven for what they tried to do to us for at least a generation.

16

#7

 Is indigent now a code word for illegal?

17

Great post. But --

Only if the damage is truly grave will they stop.

-- what do you mean by that in concrete, practical terms?

18   Is indigent now a code word for illegal?

It is also code for 'gang-bangers who get dropped off at the ER'.

19

#15 The Democrats will not be forgiven for what they tried to do to us for at least a generation.

No, they are pinning their hopes on the old adage that a week is a long time  in politics.

20 The Democrats care what the people think.

21

#20 The Democrats care what the people think.

You have a point there.

22 Only if the damage is truly grave will they stop.

Hard to see how it wouldn't be considered grave already. The data from every poll is consistently downward, a large portion of voting electorate is now privy to ugliness of neo-statism, and the 40 year democrat reign is nearly bust after 6 months. The dems have been lulled into false complacency by their media blanket. A flawed article in the WaPo, for example, carrying water for a leftist cause is a priori validation because they still believe that institutions and organizations are still the prime generators of truth, rather than the public sentiment that crystallizes after exposure to a variety of outlets.

23 When you are an insane nincompoop libtard boob you don't know when to quit.

24 It is going to pass in some form.  all of this stuff occurred before the stimulus passed and look, despite those against it, the majority, we have the stimulus.  This is why people are so angry, they give their opinion and the folks in charge say "that's nice that you feel that way but, we know what is better for you than you do, so pipe down and shut up and let us ram this bill through"

25

Conservatives need to go to meet these Blue Dogs and explain to themin very forcefullanguage that if they pass this and it goes wrong and doesn't work that they will face very personal ramifications.

These people tooften just get to walk away from their screw ups and get some comfy lobbying job paying millions. We need tomake them understand that if this goes wrong we will punish them. That at best, at best mind you, they will spend a long time in jail.

I think a Congress person having fifty to sixty people on after another politely come up to them and quietly tell them that they will be physically punished if this goes bad willget their attention.

26

Obama's said he's willing to be a one-termer, shoving a politically unpopular socialist agenda down America's throat, if that's what it takes.

The rub here is, nobody asked him how long he thinks a term is.  I do not think he would hold a fair election if it meant there was the slightesty chance he could lose power.

27 "54% Think No Bill Better Than ObamaCare"  so they have 54% of Americans in favor of the bill?

28

Hey, what's with the link to the headlines comments?  It goes to a piece at HA on the "Fairness Doctrine".

Headlines comment I wanted to leave:

The "Motherload" of Obama bumperstickers was a real hoot - many great put-downs of the Won and the morons (and not in a good way) who pissed away their vote for him.

But "Motherload" is actually more correctly "MotherLODE"... a term related to gold or silver mining  I think, refering to the ultimate "jackpot" source of the trace amounts of precious metal washed downstream from it.  So the word is used fairly correctly in context, but misspelled.

29 Posted by: muffy at August 15, 2009 12:14 PM (p302b)

No it means 54% think that the status quo is better than Obamacare.

30

This is what I have been waiting for. The Republicans started out arguing what should be in the bill and how it would be paid for. To me that was bullshit and gave away half of the issue without a fight. The argument should have always started with “do we need ANY of this shit?”.

 

The 47 million number is a lie and yet the Dems keep quoting it. National polls say 80% have healthcare and are happy. The Fox poll says 91% have healthcare and are happy.

 

In short, anyone who says we must have ANY of this crap is a liar.

31 27 54% of Americans would rather have no healthcare bill at all.  

32 We come to the crucial question of just what Obama's end-game is. I think it comes down to which is greater: his hatred for America, or his love of himself.

I think there are a few reasons why he'll chicken out on political suicide.

33 Start promoting a free-market reform package.  Point out that it's government interference that's blocking improvements in our current system.  And point out that the Democrat package institutes no free-market reforms, just more government power.

65% are not in favor of this package.  Providing the 19% of 'no opinion' a free-market option (the Whole Foods ideas are a good start) can bring them over to the 'no on ObamaCare' side.

34 /sockpuppet

35

One other thing, we must NOT roll over and say “thank you” if they cut out some of the more hated portions of these bills. That way lies the road to getting it all down the road. It is called “the camel’s nose in the tent”.

36 Last night Yahoo News tried to pin the "Death Panels" as a GOP idea and then trotted out Sen Collins and a couple other names I cant remember.  I haven't heard a peep about Obama's  "...I mean, the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here..."  anyplace except on a few blogs.

I sent that to my liberal family members who went total apeshit, particularly my sister who has MS.  Even she saw the writing on that wall.

37

Muffy,

I tend to agree that unless something extraordinary happens, something will pass, and that something will be very hard, if not impossible to repeal.

 

That being said, HA I think in their Quote of the Day last night had Murtha saying that the Dems told Pelosi no Healthcare vote till next year.  Did you see that? 

 

I'm wondering if we can delay any vote until after the Nov. gubenatorial elections, where a large anti-incumbant vote my turn this ship around?

 

I know I'm a lurker and not a regular poster, but thought?

38 And as far as ramifications. If its defeated it may hurt congress but not necessarily the President. Clinton survived and was re-elected. Bill Clinton was right as well in the nutroots speech, if it passes polls will eventually go back up I think. Provisions in the bill will not really begin shifting people to Obamacare from private insurance until 5 years in. So he can use the lack of shifting people of people onto Obamacare as proof that the right was wrong and was fearmongering.

Look at Medicare and Medicaid. Its govt. run and people on it love it now. Once people begin sucking on the govt. teet they love that sweet nectar. Liberty be damned.

39

Average dem slime might have some interest in their own self-interest, but The Precedent doesn't care about his position, at all.  He came wanting one thing, and one thing only, and that is to exact revenge on whites, the successful, and the West.  He doesn't care about anything else.  The more chaos, the better it is, in Precedential terms.  He wants to see this nation burn and he's going to try and pass every single bit of crappy legislation he can think of until he either gets his wish or the US finally comes to its sense and tosses him out of office.  This is why he's been trying to ram everything he can think of through Congress and why he hasn't cared, in the least bit, for what's actually in any of the legislation.  The Preceent has let Congress go hog wild on writing everything, since that gives the best chance of passing the worst bills.  And The Precedent will be trying to strong-arm every single one of the Congressional cowards into following him straight into the abyss.

I am exceedingly disappointed that, except for a few bright protesters (like Katy Abrams) almost none of the discussion about this federal takeover of health care has centered on the fact that this is the most un-Constitutional move the Congress has attempted in decades.  The administration and the Washington junta have even been brazen enough to promote their idiocy as the federal government having the power to just open up a company (the federal health insurance company) in order to "provide competition" to the private sector.  I can't think of more insane reasoning, and this comes from an alleged Constitutional scholar.  What a friggin' joke.  If the federal government had such powers, then it would be, effectively, unlimited in what it could do - which is as un-Constitutional as it gets.

The health care bill must be killed and it must be killed on Constitutional grounds.

40 "Bear in mind 70% of the public was strenuously against Amnesty, and yet they tried to push that through three times (IIRC), and each time they were only short by a vote or two"

So we have taxation without representation.  This is why I don't mind if we have a revolution.  There is no use trying to keep something when the something only enslaves you, financially and philosophically, the the will of a plutocracy.

41 *to

42

Let's step up the action on these people. Micromanage their schedule. Invite alternative candidates (like the opposition candidate for the next election?) in to speak, even if your employee Congressperson attends. Let them have balanced speaking time at your direction, not us being balanced with Acorn thugs. We can take back the management of this country now.

Might I also suggest signs with "recall Congresscritter so and so."

43 And that douchebag David Frum was on PBS last night as a useful idiot being used to show that the right has lost its mind. He called himself a "calm conservative" and that we have lost our way and are making the biggest mistake.

When asked why we havent made any proposals for reform, which we have as far as tort reform, breaking down state barriers to the market etc, Frum says this:

"Well I cant believe no R has mentioned tort reform, breaking down barriers etc. Our party is completely just against Obama with no solutions."

Fucking Moron

44

"Let's not cocky," but did anyone think it would fall apart so fast. And it wasn't because of Michael Steele or the NRSC/Cc, who really should stop doubling down on the stupid. Specter, Crist, Tedesco,It was Rush and Glenn & Sean, the teaparty goers, the town hall attendees and Perry, and Jindal and Palin, who brought this  all along to fruition. Now there's a long ways to go, but in spite of everything, there's been some progress toward defeating this thing.

45 If its defeated it may hurt congress but not necessarily the President. Clinton survived and was re-elected.

This is an order of magnitude greater than Hillarycare.

46 >>>Only if the damage is truly grave will they stop.

I mean an electoral wipe-out with the likelihood of being kept out of power for at least 6-8 years.

I mean they will only stop if they are pretty sure that they won't be allowed to do much of anything if they insist on doing this.

I think they are very inclined to do this, even if they lose a bunch of seats. They'll take that.

47 "No, they are pinning their hopes on the old adage that a week is a long time in politics."

Lily, in normal circumstances, I would tend to agree. However, I have never in my life (myself included here) seen SO MANY ordinary, non-political Americans educating themselves, becoming part of the political process and demanding the liberty and freedom that is rightfully ours. People who have never given a nano second to politics are storming mad. If this horror comes to pass, all hell is going to break loose for the Democrats. People will not forget this.

48 Posted by: M.R.I. at August 15, 2009 12:27 PM (aVQo/)

Not at all. Hillarycare was full on singlepayer IIRC. There was no "compete with private insurance" crap. I remember they even had preprinted credit card type IDs that she trotted out saying "Everyone will have one of these cards."

49 37

Muffy,

I tend to agree that unless something extraordinary happens, something will pass, and that something will be very hard, if not impossible to repeal.

 

That being said, HA I think in their Quote of the Day last night had Murtha saying that the Dems told Pelosi no Healthcare vote till next year.  Did you see that? 

 

I'm wondering if we can delay any vote until after the Nov. gubenatorial elections, where a large anti-incumbant vote my turn this ship around?

 

I know I'm a lurker and not a regular poster, but thought?

Posted by: Moron in Training at August 15, 2009 12:20 PM (TttZL)

its possible re the nov wins.  and yes, murtha fired the first shot against the "we must pass by the end of the year" bow

and obama himself said the house and senate bills will be "reconciled" in SEPTEMBER at his town hall yesetreday.

i think our job now is to make a master list of obama's health care gaffes and amke sure every american knows them by heart. such as:

1. tonsils

2. foot chopping

3. false claims of aarp endorsement

4. lies about "savings" being "indisputably" 600 billion over 10 years

5. idiocy of cutting charity giving for obamacare

6. lies about "ive not been in favor of single payer"

7. lies about "the govt option will not be subsidized"

50 30

This is what I have been waiting for. The Republicans started out arguing what should be in the bill and how it would be paid for. To me that was bullshit and gave away half of the issue without a fight. The argument should have always started with “do we need ANY of this shit?”.

 

If you've noticed, Sarah Palin has been the only Repub to give this plan a flat-out "NO."  No compromise, no bi-partisanship, no nothing.  Just NO. 

 

I've heard more than one conservative commentator say that the DC Repubs are being quiet because "the fix is in," and they'll all benefit and can claim they "didn't have the votes to stop it" and figure none of this will stick to them re election time.  Palin isn't on the take.  That's why she can say NO.

51 25 Conservatives need to go to meet these Blue Dogs and explain to themin very forcefullanguage that if they pass this and it goes wrong and doesn't work that they will face very personal ramifications.

Here's what I suspect (yes, it's full on crazy): the Dems know that the fix is in on the election, thanks to ACORN, so they don't have to worry about losing, because there will be no ramifications at all.

The only thing I'm thinking might work is if suddenly "Support Obamacare Get Recalled" posters started showing up at townhalls. And that might not even do it.

52 I just hope Laura was right. Last night she said "Everytime this is attempted it has failed, even back to 1962". She then showed Reagan talking about Medicare being a path to Socialism.

53 I think they are very inclined to do this, even if they lose a bunch of seats. They'll take that.

This is certainly the most likely scenario. Controlling the legislative and executive like this is inherently unstable and will decay of its own order like one of those artificial 112+ atoms on the bottom right of the periodic table.

54 Hillarycare was full on singlepayer IIRC. There was no "compete with private insurance" crap. I remember they even had preprinted credit card type IDs that she trotted out saying "Everyone will have one of these cards."

That was a truly awesome plan.  I mean,  how much does it cost to make one of those cards?  12¢?  And you got free health care with them!  I don't understand why that plan failed.

55 The Democraps are hearing that most folks do not want to live in a human ant colony.

It sure looks like it will take another hundred years to fully purge the Socialism meme from our world.

BTW, what is today's sunspot report?

56

AHFF,

Good points all and worth doing in a commercial (are you listening RNC?).  That being said, I think Ace is right, they're willing to risk a lot to get a framework voted on knowing that no matter what, Republicans are not going to ever get enough seats to override a veto on repeal legislation.

I think the odds are that either the House and Senate vote on a bill and send it to reconciliation before the end of September or it dies, at least for the year.

 

57

20 The Democrats care what the people think

No way.  They don't care at all, in the sense of being swayed by what the people think and wanting to respond to it.

What they do care about is how well their propaganda organs in the MSM are working to make the people think whatever the Democrats want them to think at the moment.  Right now the Dems are very worried because the MSM seems to be working at below their normal effectiveness.

The meme of the Democrat Party as caring for the people is the main product the MSM is charged with delivering for the Dems, and it is an utter falsehood. 

In reality, the Democrat Party is a criminal enterprise that enriches its elite members through the creation of aggrieved communities of victims and keeping them aggreived, who then vote them into office where they will have access to the tools and rewards of corruption.  For example, see Murtha, Jack, or any one of dozens of other pork-pushers, corruption-distributors, and race-hustlers that infest that "hive of villany" known as the Democrat Party.

58 I remember they even had preprinted credit card type IDs that she trotted out saying "Everyone will have one of these cards."

Screw the cards, just implant microchips.  Might as well go the full route.

59 they even had preprinted credit card type IDs that she trotted out saying "Everyone will have one of these cards.

Maybe that's where the $44 million she spent went, printout out those cards.  It certainly did go in her and her cronies' pockets.  Nope.

Remember when $44 million was a lot of money?

60 56

AHFF,

Good points all and worth doing in a commercial (are you listening RNC?).  That being said, I think Ace is right, they're willing to risk a lot to get a framework voted on knowing that no matter what, Republicans are not going to ever get enough seats to override a veto on repeal legislation.

I think the odds are that either the House and Senate vote on a bill and send it to reconciliation before the end of September or it dies, at least for the year.

 

Posted by: Moron in Training at August 15, 2009 12:35 PM (TttZL)

i agree.  the only way to get opposition over 60% and higher, tho, is to repeat those obama gaffes again and again and again, and then have a middle aged woman's voice say -

"can you trust your health care, and your life, to the democrat's experiment?"

61 48 TendStl at August 15, 2009 12:29 PM (b8s9s)

Maybe I wasn't old enough to fully appreciate how extensive HillCare was. But consider now we've got a full blown recession, hard Alinskyite tactics vis-a-vis multiple thousand page proposals, calculated outs for plausible deniability ("uhh, some lackey wrote that part, not me"), a stratospheric deficit, organized and federally funded pro-single payer agitators, among other things. So I'm inclined to view this as much larger than the 90s.

62 #58 Screw the cards, just implant microchips.  Might as well go the full route.

Hey, that's a good idea!  Maybe I can even use these "microchips" as a way to insure people's personal loyalty to me...

63 Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at August 15, 2009 12:30 PM (5r0Tz)

-----

I think there's a lie about Medicare, too.  Something about how it's not going to be cut when they are planning to cut it to pay for Obamacare.

64 BIG SKY, Mont. – President Barack Obama is using political tactics and rhetorical devices honed in his White House campaign to regain the upper hand in the health care debate over increasingly vocal and organized critics.

It's unclear if it's working.

Obama is trying to energize his estimated 13 million grass-roots supporters through his campaign apparatus, called Organizing for America. But there are indications that those who turned out in to help elect Obama aren't doing the same to get a policy passed — evidence of the difficulty in the transition from campaigning to governing.

What transition? Barry has never stopped campaigning.

65 63 Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at August 15, 2009 12:30 PM (5r0Tz)

-----

I think there's a lie about Medicare, too.  Something about how it's not going to be cut when they are planning to cut it to pay for Obamacare.

Posted by: Alana at August 15, 2009 12:41 PM (JE2zV)

no doubt, that's a top three lie, the flip side of the "600 billion in savings" lie.

he said at least 5 times yesterday he said its a myth that medicare benefits willb e cut.

yet he's cutting 600 billion over 10 yaers to pay for obamacare.

and the media just yawns.

66 Anyone know where the money comes from the fund the OFA astroturf people? Soros, yes, but it seems there are too many organizations, too many payrolls to maintain for just one billionaire.

67 I'm curious.

Being that the vast majority of Americans understand that this health bill is the foundation to change American society to one that will, over time, severely inhibit our liberties and freedom, I must ask this.

What Country throughout history has gone through such a drastic change when the leaders simply swoosh away the people with the wave of their hand, and not go through a period of moderate to extreme violence?

I ask this because I too am nervous that these elected leaders may be willing to kneel on their swords to pass this horrific socialist change and then deal with the natural reaction to such arrogance and carelessness in playing the American people as fools without a voice.

68 this right here, is the biggest lie of all:

Obama is trying to energize his estimated 13 million grass-roots supporters through his campaign apparatus, called Organizing for America.

OFA is NOT a GRASSROOTS ORGANIZATION.

the media reports this like it is fact - yet the media reports some small time smuck in conn with 100 libertarian followers as the kings of astroturf, and freedomworks, with a 100k on their email, also co-kings.  YET,

sending out top-down insturctions from obama/axe to the 13 million person list that WAS BUILT WITH 100's of millions in campaign money is somehow indisputably "grass-roots"

what a fuckign joke.

soemone, somewhere in the media may report this inconsistency, someday.

grassroots definition:
pl.n. (used with a sing. or pl. verb) People or society at a local level rather than at the center of major political activity. Often used with the. The groundwork or source of something.

69

When asked about those cuts, Barry calls them "savings" brought about by improved efficiencies and removal of redundancies. etc.  Very little emphasis on fraud, btw, becuase putting a number on fraud shows just how corrupt Medicare is.  Now what's funny is Barry saying that we can save $60 billion a year in Medicare, but only if we pass this health reform behemoth, not before.  Why won't anyone ask him what he's done about cutting our all this alleged waste (not fraud, according to him) since he's been in office?  surely he can point to at least a billion in savings through some action he's taken in Medicare?

70 67 I'm curious.

Being that the vast majority of Americans understand that this health bill is the foundation to change American society to one that will, over time, severely inhibit our liberties and freedom, I must ask this.

What Country throughout history has gone through such a drastic change when the leaders simply swoosh away the people with the wave of their hand, and not go through a period of moderate to extreme violence?

I ask this because I too am nervous that these elected leaders may be willing to kneel on their swords to pass this horrific socialist change and then deal with the natural reaction to such arrogance and carelessness in playing the American people as fools without a voice.

Posted by: Drider at August 15, 2009 12:44 PM (aZn+0)

that's right - and the homeland security and SCLP reports on "right wing extremists" are laying the groundwork for a huge political victory for obama should be pass the bill and then crackdown on "politcal terrorists"

71 Factcheck.org?  Fox has the managing editor on right now and is asking the kind of questions which allow her to say "that is false" which she just did to the question "is the gov't going to pick your insurance for you?"  Ultimately, if business has to pay a tax they are going to take the course of least reistence and dump everyone into the public company and the private companies will not be able to compete.  Whe is now claiming that it provides for end of life discussion nothing about euthenasia as dear old Lori rolls her eyes at the stupidty of Americans.

72 What Country throughout history has gone through such a drastic change when the leaders simply swoosh away the people with the wave of their hand, and not go through a period of moderate to extreme violence?

Posted by: Drider at August 15, 2009 12:44 PM (aZn+0)

Secession by a swath of states is the likely outcome from such.  The violence will precede the secession, since The Precedent is looking to gin up race riots, soon, anyway.  That's just part of his desire to burn this nation to the ground.

73 47 "No, they are pinning their hopes on the old adage that a week is a long time in politics."

Lily, in normal circumstances, I would tend to agree. However, I have never in my life (myself included here) seen SO MANY ordinary, non-political Americans educating themselves, becoming part of the political process and demanding the liberty and freedom that is rightfully ours. People who have never given a nano second to politics are storming mad. If this horror comes to pass, all hell is going to break loose for the Democrats. People will not forget this.

I think,  and hope,  you are right.  This is one of the few times that everyone will be directly affected by what congress and the President are working on.  This was not so with the bail-outs,  the prescription drug plan,  tax increases,  the wars,  any changes in Social Security  etc.  They've always changed a segment of society at a time so the majority is left alone.  Now,  I believe they've awakened a sleeping beast.  I just hope this will cause the people who've finally woken up to view everything the government does with a more critical mind.  The heightened mistrust of the government is a great thing.  But I'm afraid the republicans will squander it.  The public is at a point where they are beginning to look for someone they can trust.  It could be the conservatives,  who have not been lying about this government power grab.  The public could start thinking about everything conservatives have been saying for the last 40 years in a new light.  Maybe.

74 Nationalized Health Care has been the Totalitarian's wet dream for over 70 years now in this country.

I guess what we're waiting to find out is whether or not there are enough Democrat politicians willing to say to themselves, "Yes, this is the hill I'm willing to die on."

It's not just the Marxist ideologues (going out in a blaze of glory, so to speak) who may find losing their seats an acceptable risk to take or price to pay either.

From Geraghty:

^{The average age of a member of Congress this year is 58.2 years, about a year and half older than the last Congress and among the highest of any Congress in recent history. The average House member is 57 years old and has served an average of 11 years; the average senator is 63.1 years old and has served 12.2 years. For those who find the current annual salary of $174,000 too modest, life after office offers many lucrative opportunities in lobbying, teaching, talking-head punditry, consulting, and book deals.}

Not to be all doomy and gloomy but these are some ideas that merit consideration.

I don't know how a reversal of the nationalization of health care would be effected once this huge entitlement program is put into place. 

The possibility of losing their majority status in congress temporarily might just be an acceptable tactic in their eyes to further the long term strategy of making every citizen or resident of this country into a client of the Welfare State.

The Democrats are the party of the Welfare State.  Every individual right or ounce of freedom ceded to the Welfare State translates to increased power and control for the Democrat Party.  We know this.  They know this.  The only ones who seem confused about this are the "big-government" or "Compassionate Conservatives" types.

75

Forget about everything else, in this recession, we can't afford "free" health care.

76 Ace is right. They will pass this because they can. They think the voters have a memory of a flatworm. Correct. Polls and MSM will cheer orgasmically when Zero signs it and nothing will change, at first. "Proving" oppsition was hysteria. In a few years, your employer (if you are lucky enough to have one) sends you a form letting you "pick" one or two plans that qualify for Hellcare, and both will cost you more and deliver less. Or you can do without and pay to go on the public option, which will give you what get at the county emergency room, at twice the price and a monthly premium. Plus the wait. But you will have nonwhere else to go. Once the socialized medicine find is in, we will all be junkies and there will be no cure. There will be subsequent tax increases and fee increases, however. To cover inevitable shortfalls.

77 Passing ObamaCare will start Civil War 2.0.

78 I don't know how a reversal of the nationalization of health care would be effected once this huge entitlement program is put into place. 

That's the scariest part of this whole thing, and the reason it just might be the hill some of them are willing to die on.  I don't see how it could be reversed if they succeed in implementing it.

79

#78 I don't see how it could be reversed if they succeed in implementing it.

Peaches, nothing is carved in stone.  The current Obama proposal intends to do away with one system so why not reverse it or change it when you have the numbers?

80

Peaches, nothing is carved in stone.  The current Obama proposal intends to do away with one system so why not reverse it or change it when you have the numbers?

Because people get addicted.  Remember that one of the most effective arguments is that this plan will gut Medicare.

81

I call bullshit.

According to the DailyKos poll (shaddup) its 60% for 36% against.

The real numbers should be higher against in reality

82 Moron in Training at August 15, 2009 12:47 PM (TttZL),

That's an excellent question.  Why hasn't this unproven genius enacted the $60
Billion saving plan to show us how easy it will be to pay for it? Smoke and mirrors. I would think that this undisputed fact that such a huge savings is possible would have all members of Congress fighting for the opportunity to have their names on the  Bill that would make Medicare and Cane solvent.

83

#80

Peaches, nothing is carved in stone.  The current Obama proposal intends to do away with one system so why not reverse it or change it when you have the numbers?

Because people get addicted.  Remember that one of the most effective arguments is that this plan will gut Medicare.

Amish, you could still do it if you replace it with something more advantageous to a larger group of people.

84

I would be disappointed if the so-called "Blue Dogs" helped pass this bill. I understand the reasons why they may be members of the party that they have affiliated with for the moment, but surely it must be an alliance of practicality and necessity rather than love. They must also be aware that they will truly never be loved themselves, for they and their districts are surely too far out of the main flow of thought of a party that is increasingly committed to academic Utopian moirés for them to ever truly be at home.

What always has been need not always be. The steady rutted paths of today may become the forgotten, overgrown, and barely discernible trails of tomorrow. I thus ask the Blue Dogs to consider if they truly believe that the Democratic Party of today is worth sacrificing their all for, or if it is merely a means to an end until a situation more to their liking comes along.

Blue Dogs must vote as they see best. But they must also understand that any representative not voting the conscience of his district will be seen as one who believes in rule by bettors, not rule by the commons; as one who spits in contempt at the notion that the people have ultimate sovereignty. The representative owes the people his judgment, yes—but is but a judgment that seeks to lead the people by informing them of how he views the situation, and then, having explained himself, of bowing to their desires when facing an issue of such magnitude. To do elsewhise says to the people that the representative is liege-lord, master of the district, and will rule as long as his term permits.

Do not do that. Do not make compromise with power if you do not feel you should--stand your ground; for no one knows what winds of change the future may bring, and in that stormy tempest to come one may not want to be against a lee shore because one had wandered in too close looking for safe anchorages where none were to be found. 

 

85 Amish, you could still do it if you replace it with something more advantageous to a larger group of people.

Like say, reforming a dysfunctional program such as Social Security and allowing individuals to set up private retirement accounts? 
Man, that would be a great idea! 

Someone with a lot of political capital and who is willing to spend it should really look into that...

86 Peaches, nothing is carved in stone.  The current Obama proposal intends to do away with one system so why not reverse it or change it when you have the numbers?

Lily, I just think that all the people who end up with "free" coverage are going to sink deeper into an entitlement mentality and, let's not forget, many of them can still vote.  No way will they support something that would require them to spend money on insurance, and give up their satellite tv, their remittances and 3-week annual vacations to their "home countries," their $200 sneakers, their mani/pedis.  Honestly, this scares me.  A lot.

87

#85

I was thinking along the lines of tax breaks or vouchers.

88

#86

$200 sneakers?

Obviously, I must live in a different universe to some folks.  Besides, they are all made in China or Indonesia so why should any of them be $200.

89 CAUTION:  Watch, but remember that you may become furious.

90 I was thinking along the lines of tax breaks or vouchers.

And once the government is the only game in town just where would I spend these vouchers, hmmm?

91

The other part that people miss about the insidious nature of the Washington junta's takeover of health care is that, if the government is paying for your health care (forget any talk of premiums, the ultimate expenses for the procedures are borne by the government) then that same government is going to consider itself the dictator of everything that affects your health.

How can people look at the smoking bans (which routinely shred notions of private property rights, the foundation of our nation) or trans-fat bans or the attacks on fat people without understanding that the government in charge of health insurance will start dictating what you can and can't do in every aspect of your life ... since there will be inevitable cash crunches for the "public insurance company"?

Smokers have seen how bad these fascists can get.  Give the government control of health insurance ... and there will be no bounds to the dictates that will start coming down.

92

Ace - Any thoughts on wether or not some of the states would invoke the 10th and tell obama no thanks?

I know that Perry gave it some lip service for Texas but there are a lot of states that are running the 10th through there legislatures right now.

93 Perry has said that if Obamacare is enacted, Texas will opt out.  If this shit gets passed, I am all for secession, civil war, whatever it takes to get our country back on track and out of the hands of these bastards.

94 Arizona Prop 101 only lost by .4% in 2008 (49.8 to 50.2).  It directly addressed the state's rejection of federal health care mandates.

95

#90 I was thinking along the lines of tax breaks or vouchers.

And once the government is the only game in town just where would I spend these vouchers, hmmm?

Once you have a different government you also have a different game in town.  Get a grip, Deety.  Are you seriously suggesting that along with health reform Obama will wipe out capitalism as well? 

96 I think that it would be most effective to beat the drum that we don't have any money to pay for this POS. 

Force the Democrats to base their sales pitch on cost savings, which inevitably means taking care away from people who currently have it, and make them defend that to seniors and their families.

97

Obama and the Democrats will pass this over widespread public objection, so long as the damage is moderate. Only if the damage is truly grave will they stop.

 

Ace - What is your perceived tipping point for them to come to the conclusion that the damage will be to much?  I mean the election is not until next year so how do think that they will gauge too much damage?

You mentioned 70% for amnesty and yes people where pissed.  So now do you think if we reach 60% + "the ruckus on TV" that that will be enough?

98 This is an emergency! Now! Now! NOW!!!! Emergency!!!!!!!!!!

99 57

Did you happen to catch my name?

100

Arizona Prop 101 only lost by .4% in 2008 (49.8 to 50.2).  It directly addressed the state's rejection of federal health care mandates.

What does that mean?  What federal health care mandates did or does AZ want to reject?

101 Are you seriously suggesting that along with health reform Obama will wipe out capitalism as well?

Posted by: Lily at August 15, 2009 01:51 PM (OR75s)

Well, he sure as hell is giving it his best shot . . .  Looks like we've got us a new troll. 

102 Did you happen to catch my name?

Posted by: And you can keep your coverage at August 15, 2009 01:54 PM (5I0Yr)

The fact that his nic is Sherlock is just sooper dooper rich.

Either that or he went deep and the jokes on us.

103 or, do we have an old troll with a new name?

104

What does that mean?  What federal health care mandates did or does AZ want to reject?

Posted by: Roadking TC at August 15, 2009 01:54 PM (I+tXn)

It was just a general 10th amendment call, reestablishing that the state was in control of health care.  The wording of the proposition was:

Prohibits laws that: restrict person's choice of private health care systems or private plans; interfere with person's or entity's right to pay directly for lawful medical services; impose a penalty or fine for choosing to obtain or decline health care coverage or for participatin in any health care system or plan.

The fact that it only lost by a squeaker in 2008 means that it would probably go through now at something like 60%-40%, if not more lopsided.

105

#91

Anti smoking bans are a direct result of passive smoking class action suits.  And yes, this bill is a trojan horse with all sorts of possibilites built in.  However, if you really wanted to cut costs you would first go for the soft money which is tort reform.  That would certainly bring down the cost of health insurance for both the consumer and the practitioner.

106 From a blogger: "An Open Letter to the Legislators of the United States of America"

http://tinyurl.com/q8zv97

107 Ace - Any thoughts on wether or not some of the states would invoke the 10th and tell obama no thanks?

An Arizona Health Insurance Reform Amendment, or House Concurrent Resolution 2014, will be on the November 2010 ballot in Arizona. State legislators in both the Arizona Senate and Arizona House of Representatives voted to put the measure before the state's voters.

The proposed amendment to the Arizona Constitution is sponsored by state representative Nancy Barto.

HCR 2014 would amend the Arizona Constitution by barring any rules or regulations that force Arizonans to participate in a health-care system. The proposed amendment would also ensure that individuals have the right to pay for private health insurance.

This is similar to Proposition 101 which was on the ballot last year and lost by less than 0.04% of the votes cast.

^{...According to the description on the Arizona ballot, Proposition 101 “Prohibits laws that: restrict a person’s choice of private health care systems or private plans; interfere with person’s or entity’s right to pay directly for lawful medical services; impose a penalty or fine for choosing to obtain or decline health care coverage or for participation in any health care system or plan.}

^{“If passed, this would mean no law could prohibit patients in Arizona from electing to pay directly for their medical services, nor could it restrict them from choosing a private health care system.”}

^{George F. Will, the conservative columnist, wrote in the Washington Post in October that opponents of the proposition were “against what it would guarantee, including the right of individuals to pay directly for medical services without needing the permission of a third party. Proposition 101 would emancipate service providers from requirements that they either charge fees set by the state, or charge nothing.”}

^{He said that it would “prevent employer or individual mandates of the sort imposed in Massachusetts. That is, it would prevent ‘pay or play’ systems, under which employers must either pay for employees’ health insurance or pay into a state pool that finances insurance for them."...}

108

Prohibits laws that: restrict person's choice of private health care systems or private plans; interfere with person's or entity's right to pay directly for lawful medical services; impose a penalty or fine for choosing to obtain or decline health care coverage or for participatin in any health care system or plan.

The fact that it only lost by a squeaker in 2008 means that it would probably go through now at something like 60%-40%, if not more lopsided.

That is awesome.  So if this piece of shit passes how will it or how could it work in AZ?

I think that if enough states got together and did something like this that the Ins. Cos. would flock and thrive there as well as a lot of people, business and talented med staff and it would leave the blue states that want to drink deep off of the gov. to flounder.

109 Posted by: Roadking TC at August 15, 2009 01:57 PM (I+tXn)

Yes. Quite.

110

#101 Are you seriously suggesting that along with health reform Obama will wipe out capitalism as well?

Posted by: Lily at August 15, 2009 01:51 PM (OR75s)

Well, he sure as hell is giving it his best shot . . .  Looks like we've got us a new troll. 

Peaches, I am not saying that Obama is not trying to do it I am just saying that he will only be able to do one thing at a time before he comes unstuck.  At the moment he is staking his all on the health care reform.

111 That's just it. This isn't about convincing congress the American people are against the bill: we were against car bailouts and the stimulus package, against TARP and a handful of other things congress passed anyway. They don't give a rat's ass if we're against it.

This is about convincing congress that we're so against it they'll lose their jobs. If we can get them to understand that, it might matter.

112

Anti smoking bans are a direct result of passive smoking class action suits. 

Not really.  They are mostly the result of city executives and other busybodies merely claiming that second-hand smoke creates an unsafe work environment, which is laughable.  If that were true, then they can issue waiters gas masks.  After all, we do have people working in coal mines.  For condos, the smoking bans are just the result of people having lost any respect for the notion of private property rights and the fascist left willing to push things as far as they can.  Many other areas have just adopted smoking bans because they can, without any suits or threats.

To the suits, though, it is noted that declaring CO2 a "pollutant" (another laughable prospect, that is being leveraged to more lefty control of industry) came through the courts.

And yes, this bill is a trojan horse with all sorts of possibilites built in.  However, if you really wanted to cut costs you would first go for the soft money which is tort reform. 

Sure, but the Washington junta doesn't care, even the smallest bit, about costs.  They are all about control (for the less dangerous of the left) and destruction (for the really dangerous left).

That would certainly bring down the cost of health insurance for both the consumer and the practitioner.

Posted by: Lily at August 15, 2009 01:59 PM (OR75s)

They don't want the cost brought down, since that would give people more control.  The left has the same attitude towards health care as they do towards industry - they want to bankrupt it, take it over, and force the US to do whatever their latest fantasy is.  The fact is that, operationally, the Washington junta's health care plan is more appropriately entitled, "Cap & Trade Medicine".  But they need to get everyone unnder the cap in order to have this work like their Cap&Trade CO2 does.  And, in the Cap&Trade Medicine markets, political chits are the currency.

 

In the end, though, this health care insanity must be fought on Constitutional grounds.  The federal government must be limited in its power and must be restricted to the Constitutional limits.  This part is not getting the main focus that it should. 

113 At the moment he is staking his all on the health care reform.

Posted by: Lily at August 15, 2009 02:07 PM (OR75s)

Really?  Did you miss all that TARP and "stimulus" and taking over GM & Chrysler and meddling in the banking system?  Hellcare is just another brick in the wall, albeit a very big one.

114

In the end, though, this health care insanity must be fought on Constitutional grounds.  The federal government must be limited in its power and must be restricted to the Constitutional limits.  This part is not getting the main focus that it should. 

Amen my brother. 

That's where all of my rambling from above is going.

115 The "representative" Right can do only one thing. 100% of the caucus loudly rejects and no further tangibly debates to make this monstrosity palatable. Sure, mouth some words to act like you're interested in compromise like a good politician, but argue from the conservative POV and do not stray.

Yes, the Left may pass it anyway, but make it as painful as possible for as many shades of Bluedogs as possible. Do not provide any cover and don't let it be known as a bipartisan bill.

The awakening public is performing admirably. It's up to elected officials to march aboard or walk the plank. The last election had consequences and so will the next one.

116 So if this piece of shit passes how will it or how could it work in AZ?

I'm not quite sure, to be honest.  Could the State of AZ protect me from the IRS throwing my ass in jail if I failed to pay the fine levied against someone who refuses to join either a federally "approved" private plan or sign onto the "public option"?

Also, it's all well and good to allow individuals to be able to pay directly for medical services if they so choose but what happens if the government makes it virtually impossible for doctors to accept private payments?

117

That is awesome.  So if this piece of shit passes how will it or how could it work in AZ?

Almost awesome.  Prop 101 lost by a hair-breadth.

I think that if enough states got together and did something like this that the Ins. Cos. would flock and thrive there as well as a lot of people, business and talented med staff and it would leave the blue states that want to drink deep off of the gov. to flounder.

Posted by: Roadking TC at August 15, 2009 02:04 PM (I+tXn)

Yep.  But I don't think this is going to happen piecemeal.  I see full-blown secession if any of the current nation-killing legislation gets through (health care, cap&trade, amnesty, ...).  I figure that most of the energy and production states will leave (Texas, Alaska, the South and a swath through the mid-west) leaving nothing in the Union but states that have no energy or won't allow themselves to use any of their energy (like CA) and a new US will be formed that goes back to a Constitutional footing with the deep respect for individualism and private property that built this nation.  That's the only way I see the conservative creed living (the creed established by the Founders), since the US is 80% on the way into the abyss and won't be turned around.

118

$113

OK, you have a point there however, TARP, stimulum GH/Chrysler/banks were rushed through before people twigged to what was going on.  Now that the alarm has been sounded Obama will find it much harder to do as he planned.  And lets not forget Sarah Palin has been unleashed.

119 John Fund on Fox is saying that for the first time the census is not going to ask if your a citizen?   WTF, then what is the point of a census.  And why do they not care if you are a citizen? 

120 Passing ObamaCare will start Civil War 2.0
------------------------------------

I wonder how many congressidiots think the Civil War was all about slavery. As a few of us know, it was about states' rights.

121 The awakening public is performing admirably. It's up to elected officials to march aboard or walk the plank. The last election had consequences and so will the next one.

Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at August 15, 2009 02:16 PM (JamGx)

I always love your posts, AD.

122 wow, Gibsey really is attacking cable television and "the food fight"???  And claire Mic kas kill is a jackass plain and simple.

123 I predicted, before obama was nominated, in fact when I still thought that it was gonna be hillary, that this was a one termer president no matter what. 

That's why I said I was gonna vote for hillary.  Then Obama got nominated, and I realized how bad he was for this country, and I decided a 1 termer mccain would be better than a 1 termer obama.

Obama won, as he informed our political bretheren, so stop him as much as possible now, cuz he's not gonna have a second term.

124 Tami: "I always love your posts, AD."

Thank you, Tami. I learn goodest from fellow morons.

125

That would certainly bring down the cost of health insurance for both the consumer and the practitioner.

Posted by: Lily at August 15, 2009 01:59 PM (OR75s)

I also want to add something about the cost, that has gotten lost in the debate.  One of the reasons why we spend so much on health care is because it is our health care system that is funding advancement in health care for everyone.  Companies don't bother spending money or time to develop new drugs, treatments, or procedures, unless they are targeted at the US market, because there is no money to be made anywhere else.  If the profit motive comes out of the US health care market, then medical advancement will slow to a crawl for everyone.  The socialist systems in the rest of the world have the benefit of being able to draft off of the US, as advances are done for the money they make, here.  We can't draft off of anyone, since we are the only real profit-making market that exists.  The profit motive of the US health care market is killed at the expense of all (which they would realize soon enough).

The lefties like to act as if medical advances just appear out of nowhere, for no reason in particular.  Many lefties don't understand the difference between basic research and complex and expensive development and distribution.  The Precedent has never addressed this issue, since he adopts the normal view of a retarded lefty - that the world is static; everything is as it is now and things just appear out of nowhere for no reason, when they do.

So, on top of all of the other terrible problems with the Washington junta's ideas and their attempt to rend the Constitution and use it for toilet paper, socializing American health care will kill the advancement of medicine in a way that most cannot even imagine.

126

Only if the damage is truly grave will they stop?

No they won't.

127

#117

Texas has military bases including Ft Hood, The  Air Force complex in San Antonio as well as several ports including Houston which is the largest in terms of tonnage. We have the medical center and abundant natural resources and Several Nuke plants including The South Texas Plant which is currently being doubled. If we had to we could survive nicely, but I don't know how you go about putting all the pieces together to make it work. Any thoughts from my fellow morons?

128 ...socializing American health care will kill the advancement of medicine in a way that most cannot even imagine.

You say that like it's a bad thing.  People are living too damn long as it is.  Useless waste of precious resources if you ask me.

129 You say that like it's a bad thing.  People are living too damn long as it is.  Useless waste of precious resources if you ask me.

Hear, hear!

Not to mention, there's too damn many of them in the first place!

130

Muffy:

  The census with Acorn's help is counting bodies.  Based on the number of bodies Congressional districts are apportioned.  About 9 seats shifted last time because illegals are counted.  Guess which party benefits from this pie slicing? Some red states lost a district and some blue states gained.

 

131 That's good, but we need it up to 60%.

It'll happen.  A lot of my acquaintances are senior citizens and there's a LOT of buzz among them over how this is a piece of shit and going to hurt them...and that's among the ones who are lifelong democrats who voted for Obama.

The seniors in FL put Obama over the top here, but he's losing them in droves at the moment based on what I'm hearing every day.  I don't think the local Palm Beach democrat party leadership even has a handle on the rate of hemorrhaging yet it happened so hard and fast.  They're probably clueless as to what's really going on in down in the trenches at the weekly coffee klatches that orbit major democrat strongholds like the huge Kings Point retirement develpoment in DelRay Beach.

My hopes are high that the republicans might be able to unseat that jackass Robert Wexler in 2010 if they play their cards right.  Wexler went "all in, full retard" pitching the Obama agenda and its blowing up in his face.

132 Guess which party benefits from this pie slicing?

Gonna be different this time around.  With the economically driven population exodus from Michigan and NY, they'll have a hard time fudging up residents for houses that are on the county tax delinquency lists to be auctioned.

This is one of the things we need to watch for -- non-zero census data appearing on properties that are currently padlocked by the county awaiting auctions.

The raw data will have to be cross referenced in several different ways to try and detect fraud.

133 a couple of years ago was at a fascinating dinner party.   One of the guests said that he saw the money center being shifted away from NY to London.  he was adamant about it and was moving his family to London to position himself "correctly".

134

Ace,

Can I use the 'C' word here?  She really deserves it.

http://tinyurl.com/q4lyd2

135

Posted by: VELVET AMBITION at August 15, 2009 02:56 PM (dPRcp)

I don't know about the details, but from the state, down, the infrastructure is all in place.  And the fact that the breakaway states want to maintain the Constitutional architecture and traditions of individualism and private property that the US is now looking to toss away would indicate to me that it would almost be easier to structure the new nation than it would be to just maintain the operation of the US (as there are so many arbitrary decisions taking place in the US government - guaranteed to move up a couple of notches with the empathetic latina now on the SCOTUS).  The question, of course, is what the US' response would be, but it's pretty clear that the US hasn't the brains or the will to do much of anything, these days.

If the left doesn't stop, I don't see any other way out.  People who espouse the Funders' creed of individualism, private property and liberty will have no other reasonable choice.

136 Hey maybe we could invite the left half of Canada to come join us and we could have a bitchin country from The Gulf of Mexico to the Arctic Ocean.

137

Thoughts on Health Care if it is to be Nationalized

 

 

 

Population- Great Britain - Mid – 2007 -  61,000,000 people

 

            British Health Care Workers – 2009 (Dalrymple) - 1,400,000 people

            British Health Care Workers – as a % of population = 2.3%

 

 

Population USA – 2009 – 300,000,000

 

            ObamaCare ( Brit System )

 

            .023 times 300 million = 6,900,000 US Health Care Workers

 

(All US Govt. Employed) (A HUGE VOTING BLOC THAT WILL NEVER BE SATISFIED) (A HUGE GOVERNMENT UNION, that will never be satisfied, except by more Marxism)

 

The Union of HealthCare Workers, Professionals to WindowWashers, would be a voting bloc so powerful, that it would control all Federal Elections.

 

Almost nothing could be worse for Americans’ Freedom than to pass the ObamaCare Health Act.

 

Jack Brennan

138 OK morons.  I am looking for suggestions.  Is there anything dramatic that we can do that will show the assholes some real depth of conviction on our side?

3,000,000 people at the mall?  national 'drive 25 MPH down the freeway hour?'  Something too big to miss or dismiss.  Something nonviolent.  Something that won't hurt small biz, and won't get anyone fired or beaten by thugs.

Anybody got a good idea?

139 The freebies make a strong pull.

140 What about lining every street in America with flags?

141 I wonder if the reason Europe has stagnated is because of the healthcare and all the socialist rules that make everyone depressed.  Plus a lot of European countries have been overrun with immigrants.

142 >>>. A lot of my acquaintances are senior citizens and there's a LOT of buzz among them over how this is a piece of shit and going to hurt them...and that's among the ones who are lifelong democrats who voted for Obama.


That is great, but in the end, Obama wants socialized medicine and he doesn't necessarily have to pay for it. Senior citizens can be appeased by dropping all "cost-saving" at their expense.

Which blows up the cost of the bill (or rather makes its real costs more transparent) but at the end of the day that is an option.

143 ace, the Democrats, rank and file anyway, still have the problem that a lost of trust has been destroyed by the death panels, and we can keep beating that drum until it's out of every version.  And once we blow up all of the 'cost-saving' parts of the bill, the Democrats are left with adding on spending that is guaranteed to make over half of the federal budget in deficit.  That's a threshold that's going to be hard for anyone to ignore.

And they have to do this knowing that the day fast approaches when they are going to have to explain that they are doubling everyone's taxes in attempt to pay for all their toys.  If you're a Dem, do you think that will be easier or harder on you than August is?

I think, just enough of them chicken out.

144 Senior citizens can be appeased by dropping all "cost-saving" at their expense.

Maybe.  Quite possibly.  But...

After the bailouts and the "pork rut" of Stimulus fresh in their minds, will even the hard-core "I paid into the system, I'm gonna get what's mine, screw the grandkids!" sector of the senior population (and they are out there, believe me, I've met a few) will even they now trust congress when it tells them that "things are all cool now, someone else's ox will be gored", not theirs?

Seniors and the rest of the voting public have seen how quick congress and organizations like AARP were to throw them out onto the ice-floe, already.

The MSM and some members of the political class have revealed the utter contempt that they have for the average citizen.  Many times by trying to ridicule, slander and demonize those very senior citizens who were trying to voice legitimate concerns and frustrations.  The concerns that many who never even considered going to a town hall meeting share.

This is my hope.  That the ersatz philosopher kings of the media and the beltway have finally shown enough of the true ugliness beneath the façade that they have seriously eroded the trust that so many have been willing to extend to them for so long.

145 Or, what Methos said.

TRUST

Have they earned it?

146 New, for the upcoming 2009 Holiday season:

"Grandma got counseled by 0bama . . . "

147

67 I'm curious.

I ask this because I too am nervous that these elected leaders may be willing to kneel on their swords to pass this horrific socialist change and then deal with the natural reaction to such arrogance and carelessness in playing the American people as fools without a voice.

 

If they pass it, I would suggest, THEY HAD BETTER KNEEL ON THEIR SWORDS...  558, or thereabouts, people are bringing America  down to her knees - 90+ million gun owners could care less what they pass because THEY do not SPEAK FOR US.  They will attempt to inforce this new law and many will die.  So will every politician who votes for this socialism of America.  I abhore violence but I now keep every gun I own locked and loaded.  I do NOT leave my home without one and I sit with one only inches from my grasp even as I type this.  I am a 12+ Army vet., white and angry.  I will defend the American Constitution to my death and I will defend all those who cannot defend themselves, regardless of ethnicity for we are all AMERICANS - - - the people who believe in our constitution...  All others must die in one way or another, if it is just putting them in jail for the rest of their lives and confiscation of all their assets to put against the national debt they created. 

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