1 Senator Voinovich, sir....

Come down here and say that to me.

Otherwise, have a nice, tall glass of STFU.

2

Ohio. I've seen Ohio.

Corn fever. It's like cave madness. A particular neurosis brought on by prolonged sensory depravation.

We really ought to just spray the whole damn place with VX nerve gas or somethin and put up some signs.

And make sure Voinobitch is there when you spray.

3 Isn't this the same fool that cried like a baby? 

4

Good riddance, jerk.

5 Another fine example of Representative government. Not gonna miss this pissant one bit.

6

Maybe they should have extra senators from states outside the south and the south could just go away, like they tried to 140 years ago, eh George?

7 I blame Waffle House.

-

8

As I said in the other thread;

 

Can anyone here at AOS justify coninued suport for the Republican Party?

 

This ass-clown is the A-Number sample of what is wrong with the Republican Party.

 

He needs to find a ladder so he can climb up on it and kiss my ass.

9 A person who says "What they got to do" shouldn't admonish others for "errr." Thank GOD for southern Republicans.

10 what a dickweed. beat it loser.

11 Is he related to Sir Arlen of PA? Sure sounds familiar.

12

"They get on TV and go 'errrr, errrrr,'"

He sounds like a betwetting lib that's afraid of aggression unless it's passive aggression. 

13

"They get on TV and go 'errrr, errrrr,'"

 

Is he talking about Barry sans the royal teleprompter?

14 Doesn't sound like Voino is a big tenter, huh?

15

Is he talking about Barry sans the royal teleprompter?

No, that's more like "uhhhh, uhhhh". 

16 and another thing, when I travel down from Michigan to Ohio on business, you will immediately notice that towards the southern half of ohio there is a noticable southern drawl in a lot of the average working guys down there. so it looks like Voinivich doesn't even no his own state

17 Palin will kick yr ass , man up or get out of the way douche.

18 You could solve a lot of problems in Oiho by dumping Cleveland. Can't we lease it to Canada or something?

19

Good Riddance.  Hey maybe now Ohio can get a real Conservative as a senator.  After having Dewine gone, (member of the gang of 14) and Voinovich not seeking reelection, it would be nice.

And if he's complaining about too many southerner, gee maybe he should have been more of an actual conservative so he could have been more prominent instead of always being one of the senators mentioned as a fencesitter for important legislation.

20 Don't let the door hit you on the way out, Voinobitch.

People like you and Lincoln Chafee are the reason why the Republicans couldn't do jack-squat with a majority on simple things like getting John Bolton approved as UN representative.

21

'These people, they're southerners. The party's being taken over by southerners.

 

Before Barry got elected the last 3 Democrat presidents were from the south

Slick Willie, Jimmah and LBJ. Was the Dim party taken over by southerners?

22 18 You could solve a lot of problems in Oiho by dumping Cleveland. Can't we lease it to Canada or something?

Posted by: Dave in Texas at July 28, 2009 09:49 AM (E9Biy)

Cleveland, Cinci, Youngstown, Akron, Columbus...  all of the moderate to big cities in that state are shitholes.  I guess that goes for most urban areas in the country though.

23

And let's be honest. The problem with the GOP certainly isn't too many DeMints and Coburns. Not. One. Bit. Squishy, weepy Voinovich, though...he won't be missed.

And thats the truth. As a southerner, I stand with my Okie brothers.

24

The south is taking over?  Good thing I held onto my confederate money!

I, as a PA resident, am getting sick of these northeast republicans. They strayed away from their roots. Northeast republicans used to be socially liberal/libertarian and fiscally conservative. Now they are just socially liberal and fiscally liberal. They truely are Democrats. As someone from PA who has had Arlen Specter as his Senator since 1980, I can speak from experience that there is no difference between Republicans and Democrats in my state(except Pat  Toomey and Tom Corbett).

Instead our only options in the northeast are big government democrats and big government republicans. That is why we can't win elections up here. If we had fiscally conservative Republicans we could sweep back much of the north east, including ohio, pa, at least a few seats in new york, new hamshire, and maine. 

25 Can anything or anyplace be worse than Youngstown?

26

Just another manifestation of Ohio State being impotent in bowl games.

That and Voinovich is an asshole.

27 When are the pansies from the Midwest going to come down south and play them some football in September? oh, yeah, that's right, you won't 'cause you don't want all your A-#1 corn-fed linemen hanging over the benches puking their guts up 5 minutes into the game 'cause it's 110F and 85% humidity down on the field.

Squishy little pussies.

28 Sometimes you just have to shake your head in wonderment. Are we really that fractured as a party? ... or are the Rino's starting to feel the fear of encroaching conservatism?

Voinovich is a prime example of why this party took a nose dive. He, and others like him, are apparently just too dumb to see it.

I sense a growing conservative sentiment nationwide as we are hopefully waking up to the disasters of liberalism.

Voinovich can take a flying leap.

29 Y'know, there are some parts of the Southern character that I'm not crazy about, but I'd take a Southerner in Congress or POTUS over a Northern "elite" any day of the week. Even the most venal and criminally twisted Southerner has the honor to stand toe-to-toe when he stabs you, rather than stabbing you in the back and slinking away like a dog.

30 'Southerner'........  just sayin.

31 Mr Voinovich, as a southerner I'd just like to say

y'all can go fuck yourself.

32

Ass clown

 

ass clown (ás kloun) n.:

one, who, through the fault of his parents conception, is a skid mark in society's collective underwear

33 Since when did Republicans care where you were from as long as you were for lower taxes and limited national government, standing up for all ten parts of the Bill of Rights, free markets, and a sane foreign policy?

Those are the items everyone can agree with, but we and the rest of the country get distracted from these core items when the social cons in the south push the crazy issues like intelligent design, gay marriage, Obama's birth certificate, etc.. It is the crazy social con items that may have people in other parts of the country frustrated with the GOP.

34

some parts of the Southern character

I'll be polite--What the fuck does that mean, you fucking condescending douchebag?

35

  bias based on color = bad

Bias based on actions = bad

bias based on accents and residency* = GREAT! AWESOME!

 

 

* The only time this is a good thing is when you are judging Michigan because Ohio doesn't give a damn about the whole state of Michigan.  We're from O-HI-O!

 

 

36

social cons in the south

You are an asshat, too.  Tell me how any of those three issues you mentioned are in any way concentrated in the South.  PROP 8--HELLO!!!

37 Hopefully Demint and Coburn tell Geo to GFHS.  In a nice southern gentlemanly manner of course.

38

Just another manifestation of Ohio State being impotent in bowl games.

Ohio State is 0-9 vs. the SEC in bowl games.  Impotent indeed...

39

Those are the items everyone can agree with, but we and the rest of the country get distracted from these core items when the social cons in the south push the crazy issues like intelligent design, gay marriage, Obama's birth certificate, etc.. It is the crazy social con items that may have people in other parts of the country frustrated with the GOP.

Yes. That's why these northeastern republicans like Specter, Snowe, or Voinobitch always vote fiscally conservative and....hey, hey, wait a fuckin a minute!

You're the rainbow sprinkler chick aren't ya?

The metal oxides oozing out of our politicians are making them socially conservative.

40

Ray-33...so you're saying going full bore socialism so you can be enlightened is better than debating the merits of gay marriage, which a majority of the population opposes, or believe in creationism, which a large large majority of Americans believe.

Every socially conservative issue, has at its roots, issues of freedom, security, and/or prosperity. 

You sir, are the issue. 

41 Cleveland!

http://tinyurl.com/c2pjjx

at least they're not Detroit!

42

When are the pansies from the Midwest going to come down south and play them some football in September? oh, yeah, that's right, you won't 'cause you don't want all your A-#1 corn-fed linemen hanging over the benches puking their guts up 5 minutes into the game 'cause it's 110F and 85% humidity down on the field.

Squishy little pussies.

And they'll of course be coming up to the Midwest in November right?  You know when the chance of snow is pretty good.  Nice cold days where maybe, where your speedy little receivers can't catch a ball because their hands are frozen.

 

43 41 Cleveland!

http://tinyurl.com/c2pjjx

at least they're not Detroit!

I'll refer to the old Yakov Smirnov joke on the subject.

"Every country has city they make fun of.

In United States, it's Cleveland.

In Soviet Russia, it's Cleveland."

44

Assclown has competition:

http://tinyurl.com/m698cc

Bill Maher when asked by Wolf Blitzer if Palin has a political future: "I wouldn't put anything past this stupid country." Blitzer asked him if he wants to clarify his statement: "I don't need to clarify. It is."

45

I guess this dick has never been in Southern Ohio, were the rednecks roam!  Makes WVA look sophisticated, shit it is WVA.

So wasn't it those "Southerns" who gave the senate GOP the majority years ago?  Dickhead how did you like them when they made you a committee chairman? 

AMF! Adios MF!

Kemp

46

And they'll of course be coming up to the Midwest in November right?  You know when the chance of snow is pretty good.  Nice cold days where maybe, where your speedy little receivers can't catch a ball because their hands are frozen.

 

Posted by: buzzion at July 28, 2009 10:06 AM (Lrsi6)

Not an issue because the Big Ten teams only play each other in November, not out-of-conference teams.

47

#34

As a South Carolinian, I'd like to know what the fuck he meant by that as well.

48 Two nations occupying one space. This will not end well.

49 Circa, your reasoned response does wonders for your "argument". Why, you are a bastion of  intelligent and civil discourse. By your immeasurable logic, the senators from CA should be pushing a ban on gay marriage for the nation as we speak. Wait, they aren't? Hmmmm, it is primarily the GOP politicians in the south pushing the social con agenda, and the rest of the nation, even though they support fiscally conservative principals, continues to elect crazy donks? I wonder why... perhaps because they don't agree with crazy social con agenda.

50 Senator Voinavich decries reality, not Southernors.  South is where Americans have been moving for the last 30 years.

People are chasing free markets.  Naturally they move to where they can pursue their self interests and retain as much of their property as possible.

Who was right on the auto bailouts?  Senator Corker and Senator Shelby.  Who was right on the bank bailouts?  Senator Corker and Senator Shelby.

While most of the Senate has rolled up like a tumbleweed on behalf of the most powerful interests in DC and NYC, it has been Southerners that have been staking out the terrain on free markets and responsibility.

People are moving to Texas.  They are moving to Oklahoma.  They are moving to Tennessee.  They're chasing jobs and job creation.  Will these Senators ever fucking get it?

51

Bill Maher when asked by Wolf Blitzer if Palin has a political future: "I wouldn't put anything past this stupid country." Blitzer asked him if he wants to clarify his statement: "I don't need to clarify. It is."

I agree with Bill.  Although for probably completely different reasons.

52

/sockpuppet

 

53 Ray and the Big Tent Rinos, or democrat lite.

54

@8

No, I am so sick and tired of this shit. I live in the south, and the RNC is constantly asking me for money.  I am sick and tired of these 85 year old so called conservatives who shit in their depends diapers everytime a conservative stands up and talks about anything conservative that is controvesial.  Its almost like the RHINOS had a teleconference call this weekend to talk about how to attack conservatives and pass this health care bill - I am sure Frum and Brooks were the moderators.

55

#35

momma, you thinking about this statement, dickhead might be making a coded racial statement here. 

His problem in Ohio are the Black voters who moved to the state FROM THE SOUTH, in the 30's. So dickhead is a racist!  Sounds like good liberal logic to me.

RACIST!

Kemp

 

56

I'm a native Californian that has lived in New England, Texas,  Washington state, and now Alaska, and have traveled to 44 states. I hate, really fucking HATE the way that many people from the coasts and upper midwest talk about southerners.

It's really the last socially acceptable bigotry. Folks that would gasp with horror if someone used a racial slur think nothing of making fun of our southern bretheren. Usually they throw "christian" or "red stater" in there, too. It's infuriating.

The worst offenders are from New England, New York City and LA. 

 

57 Hmmmm, it is primarily the GOP politicians in the south pushing the social con agenda,

How exactly are these politicians "pushing the social con agenda"?

58

By your immeasurable logic

GOLLLLEEEEE...we only teach Genesis in schools in the south, no states north of the Masey-Dixie or west of Mississippi have gay marriage bans and Lou Dobbs wears a Johnny Reb suit on CNN while talking about Obama's birth certificate.  YEEHAAAAA!!!!

I'd check my definition of "logic" if I were you, dickhead.

59 Its almost like the RHINOS had a teleconference call this weekend to talk about how to attack conservatives and pass this health care bill - I am sure Frum and Brooks were the moderators.

Voinivich isn't a fool.  He's building the political cover to vote with the Democrats.  If you don't hear him talking about the things he WANTS to pass and is just complaining about other people's proposals then you know he's trying to stand on two broken legs.

60

41 Cleveland!

http://tinyurl.com/c2pjjx

 
I think the site of the next Hobo-Hunters convention has been located!  Sign up now!

61 Groin-itch would never have been more than a worthless city councilman or Cuyahoga county back-bencher if his young daughter hadn't been killed by some idiot in a van when he ran against that douche Kucinich for mayor of Cleveland; that got him a sympathy vote from all the old crones that would normally vote for the diminutive cocksucker and was enough to barely put him over the top and kickstart his political career.  But he's been a Rino squish in every sense of the word and has never met a tax increase he hasn't supported.  The lack of a primary challenger shows the poor state of the Repub party in Ohio.  He can't leave to soon.

62

He also is probably not happy that all these "Southern" states are also "right to work" states. 

How you union dickheads like the smell of our WORKING asses, bitch?

Kemp

63 "John is wrong about whether Oklahoma is a southern state."

No.

64

How exactly are these politicians "pushing the social con agenda"?

This is easy, WTF--if you disagree about anything the libs want on the social scene then you pushing an agenda. 

65 Oops. Wrong one!

http://tinyurl.com/cu69xe

66 I'll really miss Voinovich. He's my kind of Republican and he should be your kind, too.

You know I'm right because I graduated from Harvard Law. See what we've done to the country? Only I and the Voinovich's of the world can perpetuate current success. We is so smrt.

67

Not an issue because the Big Ten teams only play each other in November, not out-of-conference teams.

Eh, late October isn't really much nicer you know.  And they do occasionally play out of conference games then.

Its still a ridiculous thing to claim.

68 Before the Civil War, Michigan and Ohio went to war over Toledo and the surrounding area.

Make no mistake.  Michigan won.

69 #33 we and the rest of the country get distracted from these core items when the social cons in the south push the crazy issues like intelligent design, gay marriage, Obama's birth certificate, etc.. It is the crazy social con items that may have people in other parts of the country frustrated with the GOP.

Posted by: ray at July 28, 2009 09:58 AM (ve72s)

 

I live on the north side of Chicago and I'm a social con. And the Republicans had as "moderate" and harmless (just like you like) a candidate run in 2008 and he got his ass handed to him. Crazy social cons like Reagan kicked ass in 2 elections and still has a legacy in this country.

70

49...again, Ray, you're indicating you'll accept socialized healthcare, state-run auto and banking industry, much higher tax rates, out of contol spending, and foreign policy that exchanges hugs and shakes with thug-dictators and roague regimes while giving our traditional allies the heisman. 

You'll accept all of this so you can say you didn't vote with those crazy social cons and their fundamentalist views. 

Obviously that's your call, but your immeasurable logic has us all teetering on the edge of the statist abyss.

Tell me, Ray, what's more of a travesty, that a 16yr old girl can't get an abortion on demand without telling her parents or that we're about to turn over 1/6th of the economy to a statist president?  Tell me, Ray, if your conservative dems are so economically smart, why are they being bought off on a bill that is so obviously socialistic? 

Yes, the price of your abortions on demand and gay marriage is about to go way way up. 

71 Actually, I agree completely with Voinovich.  The problem with the US is there are far too many southern folk in it.  Y'all oughta kick us out of union or something.  Just be sure Texas is one of the states you set free banish.

72

He also is probably not happy that all these "Southern" states are also "right to work" states. 

How you union dickheads like the smell of our WORKING asses, bitch?

You're probably right.  The Rust Belt was running a protection racket for the first half the 20th century.  They all knew it.  It's been broken by, TADA, mother fucking competition.  Now they're bitching about it.  All they had to do was read the fucking reports from the Chicago Federal Reserve and the Cleveland Federal Reserve which were producing quarterly warnings that amounted to "Hey fucking local industrialists, are you fucking awake, you are killing your own industries"

73 f**king sock puppet..

and I went to bed last night thinking I should change that before I forgot too.

74 The greatest golfer of all time is from Ohio.   A sport that requires mental toughness, skill and intelligence and most of all integrity. 

Michael Vick is a southern football player.  

Checkmate.

75 You know what's worse than Southerners?

Southern Jews, Chinese, and Indians.

76
Michael Vick is a southern football player.  

Checkmate.


Posted by: alppuccino at July 28, 2009 10:22 A

RAAAASIST!!!!!!!!!!11!!eleventy!!

77 40. Not at all. The issue is getting enough of a turnout to win elections and get a majority. The GOP is failing in that arena. Perhaps some Americans who are not social cons see the GOP as compassionate social cons. The GOP hasn't been fiscally conservative for quite some time, they aren't leftist socialists, but they are a kind of moralistic soft socialism. The GOP will never regain national power with their agenda and track record for the last 8 years, even as the corrupt democrats create an epic failure. I'll still pull the GOP lever, but I do not expect different election results until they push more libertarian principles and hide the social con populist items in the back. (and I do blame the south for this perception, I live in the south and see the social con items all the time in local and state GOP politics.)

78

Checkmate.

George Washington was a southerner.

Barack Obama is from Illinois.

Checkmate with a counterclockwise swirl.

79 70. Your comment attribution to my position is an epic failure.

80

and I do blame the south for this perception, I live in the south and see the social con items all the time in local and state GOP politics

Don't let the door hit you.  I hear things are just great in Berkeley.

81 Squishy, weepy Voinovich, though...he won't be missed.

I'm sure the Dems will welcome Voinovich's replacement.

82

The Last General of the Confederacy to surrender in the war was Stand Waite, a Cherokee Indian who led an army drawn primarily from the Five Civilized Tribes in what later became Oklahoma.

Quantrill's Raiders used what became Oklahoma as a safe haven as well.

 

The Indians tended to side with the South because of their emphasis on States' Rights and soveriegnity. Ironicly, the South offered the Indians of the Territory Equal treatment, more Independence, and even the option of Statehood in the future- the Indian Territory showed promise as a buffer between the Union and the Confederacy.

Oklahoma is a Southern State, if you doubt it, ask a few.

83 Circa, you are hysterically inept. Thanks for the laughs.

84

Sadly that guy is my senator and Dennis Kucinich is my congressman. Sucks to be me. 

Important though, is that his demographic: northern ohio in 60's - really look down their noses at a southern accent. Down home-ism's are not seen as being insightful. I was born in Cincinnati and it took while to adjust. In Southern Ohio they talk slower and are a lot more polite - northern ohio's are nice once you get to know em. Just not as open. Also - northern ohioans don't think they have an accent - but they really do. It grated in my ears for the first couple years I lived here.

Palin had issues in the north because her delivery reminded these types of Edie McClurg.  It will continue to be a problem if she doesn't fix it.

85

Finally, Ray, your points would hold more merit if your moderate, enlightened R's and your wise, logical conservative D's got the issues of freedom, limited government, free markets, etc right when they voted on those issues.  But, they don't. 

See CnT, TARP, Stimulus, etc. 

So, we not only don't get any of the things you abhore, we get none of the things you profess to support. 

But, again, you didn't vote with those 'tards down south.  So you've got that going for you.

86 Can we get John Bolton to show up at George's retirement party?  It'd be great to see him cry and shit his pants at the same time.

87

Oklahoma Oh, Ohio where the corn is high as a R-I-I-I-INO's eye!

88 I'll be polite--What the fuck does that mean, you fucking condescending douchebag?

I was referring to the very small subset of racist Southerners who are in fact, practically extinct. I should have been more specific, or better yet, silent, to avoid besmirching a lot of good people when that was not my intent. You're absolutely right to call me on that and I apologize.

89 Oh man , this thread is gonna' be great .
Southerner here.

90 Wow, they are trying to get rid of lou dobbs, they have a petition out and they want CNN to censure him.  Sheesh, he is just asking questions like journalists are supposed to do.

91

Circa, you are hysterically inept.

And you, in the face of countervailing facts, ignore them.  Methinks thou art a Moby.

92

74 The greatest golfer of all time is from Ohio.   A sport that requires mental toughness, skill and intelligence and most of all integrity. 

Michael Vick is a southern football player.  

Golfer, Republican

Football player, felon democrat.

Checkmate that bitch.

Let's have a contest, name the only state that DIDN'T sign the Declaration of Independence, a hint the Hudson river runs through it.

Another contest, name the Yankees who wrote the  Declaration of Independence and the Constitution?  Waiting, Waiting, BLULER!

Kemp

 

93

I was referring to the very small subset of racist Southerners who are in fact, practically extinct.

The South never...NEVER had a monopoly on that category.

94

Barack Obama is from Illinois.

Checkmate with a counterclockwise swirl.


Prove it. 

Jenga!

95 Senator Never-Heard-of-Him is now on my shit list. As a proper Southern lady, I sparingly use crass words like "shit," but I'll make an exception for him.

96 Checkmate.

Posted by: alppuccino at July 28, 2009 10:22 AM (nwXF9)

I'll see your Checkmate and raise it with a Jerry Springer Mayor of Cincinnati top that.

97

Barack Obama is from Illinois.

Actually, he'll be counted as from Hawaii, which EVERYONE knows is the MOST Southern state in the nation, check a map.

We're not claiming him.

Kemp

98

Prove it. 

Jenga!

Watch it, Ray will accuse you of pushing a social con agenda from a survival bunker adjacent to Bull Conner's grave.

99 94

Barack Obama is from Illinois.

Checkmate with a counterclockwise swirl.


Prove it. 

Jenga!

Well, he ran as a citizen of Illinois and, frankly, most of us would run from Illinois if we were stuck there, too.

100

Hey guys take it easy. Don't rag on cleveland too much, they have the rock and roll hall of fame. Where else are you going to see pants and t shirts worn by music legends. Or a tamborine from Sonny and Cher. It's a f'ing national treasure.

Take pity on Ohio for the following reaosns

1. Browns and Bengals

2. Reds and Indians

3. Toledo

4. Dying Industry

5. The Flats in Cleveland

6. East Cleveland

7. North, South and West Cleveland, generally any part of the mistake on a lake

8. Lake effect snow storms in the winter

9. Akron and Canton

10. Sherrod Brown

11. The fact that it is essentially Pennsylvania and Indiana's Taint

12. Massive declinein population

13. Lebron James can't wait to get the F out of there

14. They voted for Obama despite the fact his policies will help destroy whatever industry they had left

15. Voinavich

 

On the upside though

they aren't that shithole michigan, and they do have southern ohio with is essentially northern kentucky. As a matter of fact I think the Cinnci Airport is in Kentucky.  

We should use cleveland to test our aging nuclear weapons to see if they work. The only thing is that it would probably improve the overall quality of life in that shithole.

101

I dont think any of you guys are asking the really important question here, which is how does this help my children pay for my hooker?

Let's focus here, people.

Now, who's got money?

102 you know how I know the Big 10 is gay? Because they have 11 teams and don't play a championship and like to suck cock.

103 In support of a portion of ray's point... most of the moderate to even liberal people that I know (and I know a lot of them) have one problem and one problem only with the GOP: the social con agenda. Regardless of how much it actually affects policy making once they are elected, these folks are scared to death -- rightly or wrongly -- that all of these church-going people with regional accents are going to try to make them teach creationism in their schools, completely ban abortion at the Federal level and put teh gays in concentration camps. Now, you and I know that that sort of thing isn't going to happen, but as long as we put up with those in our party who really would use the government to push their morality, this is going to be a problem.

Look at it like this: fiscal responsibility, individual liberty and strong foreign policy sells very well with the American people, excepting something like 15% of the population that are hardcore liberals. The problem with us getting to 50% in elections is that there are also a large group of people -- say half that remainder -- who can't stomach the thought of the aforementioned perceived social con agenda. That keeps them away. Educating the social cons that liberty is actually a better solution to their gripes than legislating morality eliminates that holdback, making things not only winnable but very very winnable.

104 Weepy fucktard, get cancer already.

105 This southerner lived and worked in Cincy for a short time . While working there a young black criminal broke a bottle of Wild Irish Rose over my head because I had the gall to ask him for his ID. 
Ohio is full to the brim with racial harmony . Sarc.

106

102 you know how I know the Big 10 is gay? Because they have 11 teams and don't play a championship and like to suck cock.

WINNER! Is that you "Tom"?

Kemp

107

I was reared in Cleveland, did my undergrad in Indiana and grad in Chicago. I knew Voinibitch back when he was still a Calfee lawyer in Cleveland before he was mayor. I worked for Lugar in ’76 when he was elected to the Senate while I lived in Indy (and he was still the Indy mayor).

Either they changed or I did. Because of them and their squish, I have been a Texan for twenty years and it is very painful to visit my relatives up north -- nothing but the dead and dying back in my little town because of these two RINOs and their progeny. Sarah Palin has a bigger set of balls than these two combined.

PS I also know Nicklaus. And, it’s all about Jack….

108 Voinovich. WTF kinda name is that?

109 Pitchfork - check.
Tar - check
Feathers - check
Map to Voino - Vonoi - Vinooibivitch's office - check
Y'all wanna ride in the back of the truck?  Pack a lunch.

110 "B.R. Police Censoring ObamaCare Discussion @ ACORN's Request"

111

#108

Slovene-Serbian American.

Whatever the fuck that is.  Sounds like he's a bastard.  Looks like he's proving it everyday.

Kemp

112 As a northerner, let me say, screw Voinovich, that kind of geographic bigotry is the bread and butter of the democratic party, it has no place in the gop.

113 85. Thanks for the civil reply. I agree, if only the "moderates" were in fact more libertarian in philosophy, but they aren't, so they don't vote that way either. "Moderate" in this age is just another name for liberal lite, regardless of party affiliation.

I have consistently pulled the R lever accepting the crap in hopes of getting at least some of the good. But there has been little, if any good from the R's in many years, but we still get the crap. I got feed up with them two years ago and stopped supporting them other than to vote. From what I have seen, I blame the soc con agenda. My opinion has apparently angered some here, oh well. Again, thanks for the civil reply.

114 Voinovich is about the dumbest piece of crap in the GOP.

115

103...well said, but who is legislating their morality? 

allowing and paying for abortion on demand--morality issue

acknowledgement of gay marriage--morality issue

can't drive suv's because it destroys the planet--morality issue

 

Most of these morality issues come to a head because the left and the government force them on us, not the other way around. 

I could go on but you get the point.  Morality issues have 2 and only 2 sides.  You can't vote present.  If you won't vote for a pro-life candidate, for example, you are by extension pro-abortion.  I don't see a way around it.

 

 

116

This post should lead to a interesting overnight thread.

which states suck the most, and which are the best and why

117

Can anyone here at AOS justify coninued suport for the Republican Party?

 

Voinovich is leaving. Coburn and DeMint are staying. Jeffords left, Specter left, the two ditzes from Maine are aging.

 

And NOW, when all this is happening, you want to entertain the 3rd Party Delusion???

118

114 Voinovich is about the dumbest piece of crap in the GOP.

Aren't you forgetting Lindsy Graham?

Kemp

 

119

In support of a portion of ray's point... most of the moderate to even liberal people that I know (and I know a lot of them) have one problem and one problem only with the GOP: the social con agenda.

Abject nonsense.  The current state of play has absolutely nothing to do with the social questions and everything to do with the liberals turning 51% of the electorate into non-taxpaying dependents of the federal government. 

To wit--if the social cons were so Naziesque about imposing their views, I'm sure they would show up as more than 2% of this:

NBC News/Wall Street Journal Poll conducted by the polling organizations of Peter Hart (D) and Bill McInturff (R). June 12-15, 2009. N=1,008 adults nationwide. MoE ± 3.1.

.

"Let me list some issues that have been proposed for the federal government to address. Please tell me which one of these items you think should be the top priority for the federal government. [See below.]" If more than one: "Well, if you had to choose just one, which do you think should be the top priority?"

.

    % Job creation and economic growth 31 The deficit and government spending 19 Health care 16 National security and terrorism 14 The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan 9 Energy and the cost of gas 5 Social issues such as abortion and same-sex marriage 2 All equally (vol.) 3 Unsure 1

Some of you are falling intot he trap the media lays for the country:  The Social Cons are coming for you!!!!  It's bullshit, pure and simple.

120 103. Thanks for the cover. My oven mitts where starting to get hot holding this position by myself.

121 I'll see your Checkmate and raise it with a Jerry Springer Mayor of Cincinnati top that.

OK, that one stung a little.

122

We tried once and despite heroic sacrifice we were held in a union against the will of the people concerned and probably against the intent of the Founders.

So, if we are so terrible and embarassing, let us go. 

Lee surrendered, we didn't!

 

 

 

123 Circa, you are starting to look like an agent of progressives in an attempt to make conservatives look hostile and unreasonable. The GOP will never regain a majority using your tactics.

124 Ohioan here.

Voinovich is an embarrassment.

Didn't like him as governor, don't like him as senator.

Unbelievable.

As an Ohioan, I apologize to all southerners.  Not only for his stupid remarks, but for inflicting this turd on the nation.

125 To the esteemed Senator from Ohio: Go fuck yourself, sir.

Indiana's taint

I like that a lot. Suck it Ohio!

126

113..Ray, if my posts were too pointed or personal, I apologize.  I really mean that.  I post and read here because it's a venting mechanism for the frustration of our political times. 

IMO, we're at the edge and Obamacare is the last stand.  That results in some impassioned and perhaps, misguided bantering.  

127

Oklahoma isn't the South.  Some in Oklahoma will tell you otherwise, but it isn't.  The South ends somewhere in Arkansas, which is the true redneck/Southern transition state.  You have the hillbilly necks from Tenn, the cajun necks from LA, the normal neck from Miss, all transitioning to the cowboy necks of Oklahoma and Texas as you drive across Arkansas on I-40.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't bashing the South or Oklahoma.  I wouldn't live anywhere else!

Grim in Tulsa (formerly of Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, and South Carolina).

 

128 I've lived in Louisiana,  NYC and upstate NY and now Texas.  The most important thing to know is that Louisiana , at least south Louisiana has the most beautiful girls per capita.   

129

In support of a portion of ray's point... most of the moderate to even liberal people that I know (and I know a lot of them) have one problem and one problem only with the GOP: the social con agenda.

I'll call bullshit on their problem.  If the social con agenda was deemphasized or completely removed they still would not vote GOP.  They see that as a sort of safe tactic to be critical of or even perhaps believe it to be true.  It would not change their voting if gone, they would find some new excuse or just not have a reason.

130

128 I've lived in Louisiana,  NYC and upstate NY and now Texas.  The most important thing to know is that Louisiana , at least south Louisiana has the most beautiful girls per capita. 

Must be the French heritage.  Quebec has some good lookers also.

Kemp

131 If the social con agenda was deemphasized or completely removed they still would not vote GOP.  They see that as a sort of safe tactic to be critical of or even perhaps believe it to be true.

Yep, I hear this all the time. "I'd go Republican if it weren't for those mean old Christianists! I really am a libertarian at heart!" Scratch one of those types and what do you find? A liberal.

132 The South never...NEVER had a monopoly on that category.

Absolutely true. Another reason that I should have kept my big mouth shut.

133 Oh, lookee: Little Rayray @ 33 wandered over from Chuckie Johnson's place.

Yes, yes. We all know how there were all those polls that showed how millions of Democrats and moderate Republicans were dying to vote for McCain except for his support for the crazy side of " intelligent design, gay marriage, Obama's birth certificate."

Wait! McCain didn't support any of that, in fact: He was even for stem-cell research.

So, uh, I guess that means you are full of shit. You and all those sideways buttplugs that keep telling everyone how it's the social issues that are killing the GOP need to crawl back to your favorite Democrat plantation whence you came.

134

Circa, you are starting to look like an agent of progressives in an attempt to make conservatives look hostile and unreasonable. The GOP will never regain a majority using your tactics.

Ray, frankly YOU look like an agent of the Left.

The "social issues" that you are so scared of are in fact, winners. The overwhelming majority of people DO NOT WANT marriage redefined and homosexual relationships raised to the exact same status as marriages, and they otherwise are tolerant of (or frankly, bored to death with) same sex relationships.

The overwhelming majority also find the practice of late term abortion (abortions in a time period when many premature babies are born and still go on to otherwise normal lives) sickening. Even when they otherwise accept early term abortions.

WHY do you buy into the boogeymen the Left have created?

Moreover, having been tricked into voting for "fiscal conservative, social liberals" who turn out to be *anything but* fiscal conservatives, I am sick of squishes like Voinovich. The last real fiscal conservative social liberal I can think of was CA Governor Pete Wilson, and even he was hard core social con on issues like illegal aliens.

 

135 The Hammer -- My point was that the moderates and even non-hardcore liberals I know (and read) have a bug up their ass about people with religion. I don't disagree that the statist social libs certainly legislate their preferred morality -- they do.

But to cherry-pick an issue from your list: gay marriage. From a liberty standpoint, two people should be able to enter into a contract if they want to. Hell, four people should as long as no one is being coerced. While a large portion of Americans think it's immoral -- making it unpopular -- I've not heard a rational, coherent argument against it. Claims that legalizing gay marriage will hurt non-gay marriage are ludicrous. They have no basis in fact. And as to the government "forcing" it on anyone, I'm not sure how exactly anyone is being forced to do anything by making it legally recognized? If you're against it, how is dealing with someone who is "gay married" different than dealing with someone who is just married to someone you can't stand for any other reason? To me, it doesn't seem to be any different.

My point here is that while you can couch these things in terms of morality, I think it's a fatal political mistake. Morality is society's way of encoding wisdom for the long haul. It's not always going to be right. And, if we're talking policy, we can use morality as a guide to start with, but we need to make sure that our moral positions have the force of reason behind them. Then, you present the reasoned argument -- not the moral one -- and you pick up double digits of percentages of voters.

136

Ben #100 is bringing teh funny.

Oh, and why do most of the most annoying liberals live in yankeeland?

 

137

Sir, I object to your slanderous attack on the sovereign state of Missouri, a proud member of the Confederate States of America.

138 What a bigoted asswipe this Voinovich is.

I've only been to Ohio once, Dayton, last summer for a couple of days. If I'd known at the time how easy it is to register and cast a vote there, I would've taken a few minutes to do that.

Everyone we encountered was very friendly. The Air Force Museum is way cool. Poor Dayton was depressed though with the GM plant closing.

Oklahoma City and my city, San Antonio, have the lowest unemployment rates in the nation. There are quite a few Ohioans moving down this way.

139 Voinavitch is making fun of the way we Southerners talk? Sheesh, has this guy ever listened to Obama and Gibbs?

Funny how so many Northerners make fun of the South, and then they all move down here.

140

Circa, you are starting to look like an agent of progressives in an attempt to make conservatives look hostile and unreasonable.

You're a Moby.  You come in here, piss on the rug, get called on it and call me unreasonable.

30 states have gay marriage bans.  Creationism has been a point of contention  for school curricula in multiple states, not just in the South (Note:  I personally do not endorse the teaching of intelligent design, but evolution sure isn't perfect.)  The Obama birth certificate issue is certainly not a solely southern issue or even a social con issue, if you can demonstrate differently, do so.

If that is "unreasonable"--then you are a lib.  QED.

141 130

128 I've lived in Louisiana,  NYC and upstate NY and now Texas.  The most important thing to know is that Louisiana , at least south Louisiana has the most beautiful girls per capita. 

Must be the French heritage.  Quebec has some good lookers also.

Kemp

Depends what part of the state you're in. 

Southwest LA, towards Lafayette, is the heart of Cajun country, which is French-Canadian in origin. 

Southeast LA, in and around New Orleans, tends to be a mix of Cajun and "Yat", with "Yat" being mainly of Italian stock AFAIK.  ("Yats" tend to sound a lot like extras from Goodfellas.)

142

Little Rayray @ 33 wandered over from Chuckie Johnson's place.

Ah--all becomes clear.  I shall now ignore the revealed Moby.

143

I'll call bullshit on their problem.  If the social con agenda was deemphasized or completely removed they still would not vote GOP.  They see that as a sort of safe tactic to be critical of or even perhaps believe it to be true.  It would not change their voting if gone, they would find some new excuse or just not have a reason.

Bingo. The heirs of Nelson Rockefeller were never really conservative, and still are not. They repeat the lamestream media *lie* that "the GOP is too far socially right-wing" even as it becomes clear that the Democrat Party has gone full bore Commiecrat, to which their silence is deafening.

That said, I am a realist. An abortion ban will never happen. I live in Cali, which is pro-choice until the end of time, and should the judicial monstrosity of Roe be overturned, 24 hour drive thru abortion mills will spring up on the major roads on the borders of Cali and the northeastern states. That is just the way it is.

Still, I welcome pro-life support.

144 Curmudgeon and Circa -- I don't think that Ray and I are actually buying into the notions that the social con agenda is a real problem. However, the perception of the social con agenda by the large mushy middle is a huge problem. There are several ways to fix that:

1) Get the media to start telling the truth and not ginning up hysteria every time someone who is Southern Baptist runs for office.
Prognosis: Not going to happen. The MSM represents part of that hard core 15% I mentioned upthread.

2) Find some way to win without the mushy middle.
Prognosis: If you can do math, you know how this one comes out.

3) Do what I suggested upthread and attempt to analyze the reasoning behind social con moral positions, either letting them fall by the wayside if they don't pass rational muster or truly presenting them as arguments for the one American value that cuts across the demographics: liberty.
Prognosis: Grim, but since it's within our own party, we at least have a shot at having an effect.

145 From what I've seen, the social cons are no more apt to press their morality on people than the fucking leftards press their lack of same on us. Fuck them I say. I'll take a moral man over a San Francisco leftard any day. Go take a look at the Folsum Street festival and tell me you prefer their "morality". Yeah, those damn social cons are really scary people. Its not the social cons who do the partial birth abomination. Its not the social cons who will tell the old people they are too expensive to keep alive. Its not the social cons pushing communism lite on the country. Its not the social cons sucking up to third world murderers. Its not the social cons going around the world telling our enemies we are sorry for our greatness. Horse shit.

146 as one of those "southern Ohio" people with a southern drawl, I am constantly lamenting Senator Joinovich. I will be happy to see the ass-end of him. I have been begging Ken Blackwell to run for his seat in 2010. I would settle for a true conservative instead of this powellesque embarassment.

147

mr. fraky: I see your point, and I am all for soft-pedaling issues where they are not winners (e.g., abortion in hedonistic California). After all, California went abortion on demand back in 1967, under then Governor Reagan no less.

But all I can say to McCain and Voinovich and Chaffee and Jeffords and the like is good riddance, don't let the door hit you on the way out.

148 As a Southern transplant living in Ohio, this is just one more reason to bail out at the first good opportunity. 

The other reasons?  Taxes.  Taxes.  And Taxes.  Oh yeah, and the crappy weather.  But taxes are what's been pushing me over the edge for years, finally my OH-native wife sees it the same way. 

And who was responsible for a great deal of that?  Why, then-Gov. Voinovich, thank you very little.  Republicans had complete control of State govt. for about 14 years and in that time turned Ohio into one of the 5 highest-taxed states in the country.  So heck, why NOT vote Dem?  In this state, it truly has not mattered for a long time. 

Good riddance, he lost my vote a long time ago anyway.  Maybe we can get a real conservative to run for once.

149 Circa -- are you saying that there are "open questions" as to O's birthplace? Seriously? I didn't know birth certificatism was alive and well here.

150

Yep, I hear this all the time. "I'd go Republican if it weren't for those mean old Christianists! I really am a libertarian at heart!" Scratch one of those types and what do you find? A liberal.

Yeah, its that they don't want to get thrown in as a liberal.  They want to be seen as non-conformist in the political sphere for whatever reason.  But when its time for them to throw down its no question.

From a liberty standpoint, two people should be able to enter into a contract if they want to. Hell, four people should as long as no one is being coerced. While a large portion of Americans think it's immoral -- making it unpopular -- I've not heard a rational, coherent argument against it. Claims that legalizing gay marriage will hurt non-gay marriage are ludicrous. They have no basis in fact. And as to the government "forcing" it on anyone, I'm not sure how exactly anyone is being forced to do anything by making it legally recognized? If you're against it, how is dealing with someone who is "gay married" different than dealing with someone who is just married to someone you can't stand for any other reason? To me, it doesn't seem to be any different.

Yes two people should be able to enter into a contract.  If the state want to recognize it they have that right.  Now why does it need to be called marriage?  Why do you want to give the state the power to redefine a word that has meaning outside of their jurisdiction?  I don't think it will hurt non-gay marriages.  I see it as step 1 in attacks on the traditional institutions of our country like churches.  And you may say that it would never happen, but the legalization of gay marriage and calling it marriage can be used as the first step.  The effort to legalize it in New Jersey, I believe, had it killed because of the language that protected churches from not having to perform the ceremonies.  You want legal recognition for your gay love, you should be able to have that but it doesn't need to be called marriage.  You want to stand in front of a guy and your friends and family and say you will never love another ass but his, you can do that too, and hell you can do it right now and no one will stop you.  You can even call eachother husband and I won't care.  But the word marriage has a meaning to most people and government shouldn't have the right to redefine it.

151

What they hell they got to do with Ohio?'"

Using this imbecillic 'logic' one could as what Senator Tears has to do with anything?

I mean really, what does Ohio have to do with tax cuts? What does Ohio have to do with an out of control judiciary?

Considering Ohio sent this blathering boob to the Senate one must ask why Ohio still has Senatorial Privileges...

152

From what I've seen, the social cons are no more apt to press their morality on people than the fucking leftards press their lack of same on us. Fuck them I say. I'll take a moral man over a San Francisco leftard any day. Go take a look at the Folsum Street festival and tell me you prefer their "morality". Yeah, those damn social cons are really scary people. Its not the social cons who do the partial birth abomination. Its not the social cons who will tell the old people they are too expensive to keep alive. Its not the social cons pushing communism lite on the country. Its not the social cons sucking up to third world murderers. Its not the social cons going around the world telling our enemies we are sorry for our greatness. Horse shit.

Bingo! maddog for the thread win. Having grown up in the vicinity of Sodom City West, I once believed in the New Right boogeyman the Left foisted on the American Public. But upon a closer look, the boogeyman is a lot less frightening than the death cult indoctrination starting in childhood the the Left has in store for us.

153

Circa -- are you saying that there are "open questions" as to O's birthplace? Seriously? I didn't know birth certificatism was alive and well here.

I am not saying that--never have--it's a stupid issue in my view.  But to blame its perpetuation on southern social cons is simply wrong and that's what ray did.

154 Senator Coburn is MY Senator. I voted for him and I would support him if he got a walking cane and whipped Voinovich like a dog on the floor of the Senate. There's certainly precedent for it. Coburn is a baby-deliverin', TARP-hating, gun-totin' son of a gun.

155 Not One Red Cent

156 buzzion: I don't see why the government needs to call it marriage. Have them call it a partnership. In time, most people will just start calling it marriage anyway -- it's simpler and less awkward than bullshit about "partners" and "partnerships." I mean, are we talking about people or businesses? And make not mistake, whatever the government decides to do or recognize most folks will calling two dudes or two chicks who get partnerized "married" within thirty years anyway. It's just the way society's going. The government can either change with the people or get left behind.

I am amused, though, how people always refer to teh gays as loving the ass (which they do), but don't routinely refer to their straight friends as "loving the cooch" (or whatever) when talking about their relationships. While I'm sure it IS all about the sex when they're younger, just like it is for the rest of us, the marriage thing is more about love and how you feel about the other person as a person. I don't really know anyone about whom I could say "he got married for the pussy."

157 Circa -- ah. Misread your post. Sorry.

158 Nice recruiting there GOP. Did you advertise for a winner or a whiner? Do you know the difference. Ohio has much much better, Ken Blackwell anyone?

159 Dear Everyone:

Sorry.

Sincerely,
a native Ohioan

160 so, it was the social agenda, not the indiscriminate spending when placed in charge of things that hurt the Rs?  doubtful but nice try. 

161 maddog and Curmudgeon -- Of course you're right. The social con agenda/issues are not the danger that the mushy middle thinks they are. And the socialist/death agenda of the hard core leftists is horribly destructive -- systemically destructive. But a real, actual fact is that the middle sees it differently. Clearly, the way we're going things now is not effective in this regard. So what are we going to do about that? What is in our power to change? Only the message that our side presents. So, I'll add another bullet point to my three suggestions from above:

4) Strengthen outlets that give an accurate presentation of the views of both sides and their relative likelihood to actually be made into controlling law. In other words, work to establish and grow media outlets that are fair to our viewpoint until they meet or exceed the legacy media in trust and penetration with the general public.
Prognosis: Possible. Ongoing. Will take years, but worth fighting for.

162

The worst offenders are from New England, New York City and LA. 

And let the record show, those areas are the most highly concentrated enclaves of self-important shitheads in recorded history. I would rather have lunch with almost any high-school dropout from the South that had real-world experience and skills than the most highly educated snotty prick from the Upper East Side that most likely couldn't open a beer can by himself.

Geographical lineage means shit as far as I'm concerned. Having a 212 area code doesn't make you a royal family heir.

163 Cocksucker!

164

"Can't we all just get a long?"  Rodney King, felon

165 Voinovich is still just sore that LSU KICKED OHIO STATE'S *** in the BCS Championship Game a few years ago.

166

I don't really know anyone about whom I could say "he got married for the pussy."

Tom Brady disagrees.

167

I am amused, though, how people always refer to teh gays as loving the ass (which they do), but don't routinely refer to their straight friends as "loving the cooch" (or whatever) when talking about their relationships.

Well I just do it as kind of a joke.  And you could say that part of it stems from the gay culture perhaps.  "We're here, we're queer."  Its just such a big thing for the culture to emphasize the sexuality.

I don't see why the government needs to call it marriage. Have them call it a partnership. In time, most people will just start calling it marriage anyway -- it's simpler and less awkward than bullshit about "partners" and "partnerships." I mean, are we talking about people or businesses? And make not mistake, whatever the government decides to do or recognize most folks will calling two dudes or two chicks who get partnerized "married" within thirty years anyway. It's just the way society's going. The government can either change with the people or get left behind.

I don't agree.  I think that in the legal sense their should be the emphasis on the difference between marriage and whatever legal term is used, like civil unions.  Hell I'm even all for all legal unions gay or straight being termed civil unions, because that term has no meaning to other organizations like churches.  And yeah most people will still say they are married.  They may even have a ceremony that isn't by a justice of the peace.  But the legal distinction would still be important in my eyes.  It also eliminates the concern about attacking traditional institutions, and giving the advocates the legal equality they claim they want.  I say claim because I see them as similar to your earlier reference to the people who say its the social con agenda they don't like.  There's actually more than what they claim publicly going on.

168 ed -- nope. The middle is willing to accept that kind of spending. They'll leave it, too, as long as the economy is fine. The indiscriminate spending hurt Republican turnout though, which, when coupled with losing several points of the middle due to misguided perceptions about social conservatives was more than enough. When you're running neck and neck in a national race, and three percent of last time's supporters stay home because you're spending like drunken sailors, and the other side has unprecedented turnout due to a one-time event (first black President evah!), you need every single percentage point from the middle that you can get.

169 Tears are manly, dammit. Just ask Ray and frakypants.

170

#163 I'm glad I taught you that word, Wu. And it sure fits this case. Fits it like a glove.

171 I cried when they canceled my subscription to Jugs magazine for trying to pay in crusty socks. I'm just pathetic that way.

172

Considering Ohio sent this blathering boob to the Senate one must ask why Ohio still has Senatorial Privileges...

Posted by: Jay at July 28, 2009 11:16 AM (/ZX77)

Sherrod "Mr Connie Schultz" Brown makes the situation even worse; think "younger version of Durbin".

173

if the fraky analysis is correct, why did the Dems recruit and run conservative dems (or at least pretend conservative Dems), many of whom ran to the right of their Republican opponents?  certainly, they made an issue of the fiscal stewardship of the R's and the R's had no response.  and, I would add, many of the sc issues are winners-welfare reform, illegal immigration, affirmative action, opposition to gay marriage are all issues where the majority of americans prefer the "social con" side of the coin.  As the dems are realizing, it's all about the economy and the R's didn't do a good job with it.

174 And one more thing: You know how social issues are supposed to be a big loser?
Yeah, they are every time we run away crying "don't be so mean to me." When we stand up and fight back, we win. See, e.g. Carrie Prejean.

175 Hammer, you are fine, and a good commenter. I understand the obamacare concerns, it is the exact opposite of what is needed to improve cost efficiency in the health care industry. If it somehow passes, it will be a disaster. Yes, social con republican politicians will vote against it, and for that I am happy. But it is the southern inspired social con agenda that keeps there from being more republican politicians to vote against it. That is my position from living in the heart of the south.

Hell, the extremist responses on this thread make the point, summarized it has been "you don't like the southern inspired soc con agenda, then go fk yourself"  I will never vote for a liberal, and I'll still vote republican as the lesser of two evils, but I don't expect them to regain power with some of the attitudes I see on this thread.

176

summarized it has been "you don't like the southern inspired soc con agenda, then go fk yourself" 

That is a lie.  Liar.

177 Btw, was "chaos" draining Voinovich's balls when he was making that speech?

178

summarized it has been "you don't like the southern inspired soc con agenda, then go fk yourself" 

That is a lie.  Liar.

Sorry...should have taken off the sockpuppet.

You're still a liar, Ray and a coward unwilling to address any of the facts I presented above.  Liar.

179

 But it is the southern inspired social con agenda that keeps there from being more republican politicians to vote against it.

You are utterly and spectacularly full of shit.

The Republicans after the 2004 elections had 55 Senate seats and proceeded to grow the government faster than at any point since 1969.

Subsequently, after the 2008 elections the Republicans had 40 Senate seats.

You can point to no, that is zero, polling indicating what you're blathering about has any semblance of truth.

You are an unmitigated liar.

180 Apologies to all Southerners for the comments of this crybaby sack of shit.  Northerners like Voinovich make me embarrassed to be a Yankee (well, technically a border stater for most of my life).  I can't wait to retire so I can move to Texas where people understand the principles of individual liberty that made the country great.

181 What, pray tell, are
Southernors?

182

 But it is the southern inspired social con agenda

Ronald Reagan instituted the "Mexico City Policy"

He was quite unpopular, wasn't he?

183 When someone asks me where I am from.  I ALWAYS say S.E. Ohio. As far from Cleceland as you can get. If it was not for Cleveland, Ohio would be a solid Red State. Cleveland belongs to New York. Any NY poeple want it?? Glad to give it to you... You must also take Voinovich with you.

184 Voinkovich.

185

Sorry, I actually *don't* think ray is lying. I think he truly believes it. I have met a good many people in my own family who believe in the fundamentalist boogeyman.

However, ray *still* can't answer something all too many of us have noticed: how so many so-called "fiscal cons social libs" are NOT fiscal cons. I have not seen one on the national level. On the state level, I have not seen one since Pete Wilson, and that was 11 years ago. (OK, he tried to run for President in 1996, maybe he can be sort of national).

 

186 Didn't some boob in these pages insist a short while ago that we needed to keep electing folks like Voinovich?

187 Rephrase: I have met a good many people, including most of those in my own family, who believe in the fundamentalist boogeyman. Oops.

188

What, pray tell, are Southernors?

They're evil, social-con robots sent from the future to burn down big tents that win Republicans elections.

189 Bender  I am quite sure that it was not anyone from Ohio who blogs on AoS. Cleveland is another country until itself.

190 Is that guy crying?

191 Are you mr.frakypants? Where is mr.frakypants?

192 fiscal con/social lib is a fantasy-if you are the latter, you are going to be for more spending.  it holds true for Rs and Ds.  the social lib Rs are big spenders and there are no fiscal cons in the Ds. 

193 Wow, so "social liberals" hate Southerners, Alaskans, the Military, White Folks, Christians, amd the Boy Scouts.

How Open, Affirming, Tolerant, and Accepting of the Frackers.

194 Ohio is a state that people move away from (same for Michigan). South Carolina is a state that people move to.

195

But it's okay to hate the hater, CoolCzech. Just like our liberal brothers and sisters do. And isn't it "Frakyrs"?

196 Sorry. mr.frakypants was actually working for a while there.

You know what's awesome? Calling someone a liar and a coward when you think they're wrong. Then again, circa said that he thinks ray is an agent provocateur, so perhaps he thinks he has learned a secret truth that the rest of missed.

There are a host of reason that we only have 40 Senate seats now. Foremost is fiscal irresponsibility. I never said that the perception of the SocCon agenda was worth more than a few percentage points. But that's all it takes.

ed -- "sc issues are winners-welfare reform, illegal immigration, affirmative action, opposition to gay marriage are all issues where the majority of americans prefer the "social con" side of the coin"

Welfare reform, stopping illegal immigration and affirmative action are not what we're talking about here. Those are held by pretty much all conservatives and most libertarians. They are rationally supported issues with mainstream appeal. What I and (I think) ray are talking about is how a very small group of conservatives with little actual policy-making power are blown out of proportion and used to scare the middle. And it works. Now, what are we going to do about it?

And just to be clear, when I say "social conservative agenda," I'm talking about the group of notions that the middle has that the leaders of the Republican party, those church-going, regional-accent-wielding hicks, want to: put the Bible and prayer in schools, outlaw all abortions everywhere for everyone for any reason, put teh gays in the back of the bus. Clearly, this is inaccurate. However, there ARE people who call themselves Republicans and conservatives who DO believe this stuff, and they are loud and proud of it. I personally know people like this, so please don't say they do not exist. The problem is that the MSM and Dems have done a fantastic job of presenting to this microdot of folks to the politically uninterested as representative of all of us.

197 If it was not for Cleveland, Ohio would be a solid Red State. Cleveland belongs to New York. Any NY poeple want it?? Glad to give it to you... You must also take Voinovich with you.

Posted by: Mystry at July 28, 2009 11:58 AM (dIHlE)

Toledo's pretty fucking bad too, and Clodumbus has been infiltrated with lefties for quite a while.

198 Ray, what is your nick over at LGF?

199

Entdripy

"been to ohio..."

Bite me.

Native Ohioan, hate Voinobitch.

Let' have the names of your illustrious senators.

 

200 183 When someone asks me where I am from.  I ALWAYS say S.E. Ohio. As far from Cleceland as you can get. If it was not for Cleveland, Ohio would be a solid Red State. Cleveland belongs to New York. Any NY poeple want it?? Glad to give it to you... You must also take Voinovich with you.

Posted by: Mystry at July 28, 2009 11:58 AM (dIHlE)

No  thanks.  New York has enough loons.

201

Ohio is a state that people move away from (same for Michigan). South Carolina is a state that people move to.

Yes, and my part of SC is crawling with Ohio transplants. I wish we could put border control checkpoints on I-77 and I-26.

202

Calling someone a liar and a coward when you think they're wrong.

Yeah. Only a bunch of hicks would do that.

203

Scopio,

How's your version of Clintonesq chief executive doing?

"SE Ohio..."

What county of Ohio Klan country?

http://tinyurl.com/6xf77w

204 andycanuck -- "Yeah. Only a bunch of hicks would do that."

I don't get your implication... Are you picking on me because I spelled out what it is that middle-roaders and liberals see when they look at conservatives? To be clear, I was saying that it's shitty of Circa to call ray a liar and a coward. Ray's trying to make a point that he thinks is correct. Circa called him a liar, imputing Moby motives to him. Circa also called him a coward because he hadn't addressed every one Circa's objections and insults. Shockingly, I think that's shitty.

205 I used to consider myself a "Voinovich" republican- WAY back when he was mayor of Cleveland.  He was able to work with an incredibly hostile city council to pull that place together after the default of Kucinich's craptastic rule over the city.

As governor he actually responded to a letter I had written to him concerning high speed rail, even when Kucinich at that time as a congressman, did not.

Since though, Voinovich has done too many things to indicate that his brain's been circling the drain and is about to vanish into the pipework.

If you ever want a great example of how one man can build a coalition to save a city- look up the better and saner days of Mr. Voinovich's career, particularly concerning his dealings with a Mr. George Forbes, then head of said hostile city council.

What the hell happened to this guy?

Woosh.

206

No, mr.frakypants, #204, I was just pointing out the irony of you insulting others while bitching about being insulted. [Sorry for the sockpuppet; my IE cut out while posting and when I reposted, I didn't fix the sockpuppet.]

BTW, in Canada, today's Conservative Party and the former Progressive Conservative Party were everything you want the GOP to be and we were still called Nazis and religious psychos by the MSM. Appeasement and calling a good chunk of your base 'hicks' isn't going to change that just getting GOPers staying at home like they did in '08 for McCain.

207 Voinovich is a raging pussy with delusions of adequacy.

208 ray - blow me.

209 Actually, I wasn't insulting him, or casting aspersions on his character. I first sarcastically said that what he had done was "awesome." I have now modified that to saying it is, unsarcastically, "shitty." At no point did I say anything about Circa personally, unlike Circa, who claimed that Ray was both a liar and coward. Hopefully the difference is clear.

210

BTW, in Canada, today's Conservative Party and the former Progressive Conservative Party were everything you want the GOP to be and we were still called Nazis and religious psychos by the MSM.

Another threadwinner. To all republicans tired of smeared by the lamestream media--repeat after me: "THEY'RE ONLY GOING TO HATE ME/US ANYWAY...."

What to do:

1. Smear back. Only you have the truth, so it isn't really smearing. When they start crying, "Waaaaah! You're questioning my patriotism!", you have hit paydirt, and dig harder.

2. Opt out. See how many products of the lamestream media you can opt out of. This explains why newspapers die. This is not entirely possible. A successful boycott of the phony global warming backer GE CEO is not likely. However, I sure as hell don't have to buy McClatchy Newspapers or buy girly bath products for my wife at commie Anita Roddick's "The Body Shop". I can go elsewhere.

211 When I was a young man I worked for a land surveyor in the deep south . The most racist drunk asshole in the company was an Ohio transplant. The guy was an embarrassment. 
There's a big horse race in my area . The Elloree trials . It's kind of a spring training for thoroughbreds and quarter horses and widely attended . The obnoxious guy with the 4x6 battle flag in the back of his truck was the aforementioned Ohio asshole. Most southerners of my acquaintance appreciate the battle flag and have some affection for it but we don't fly it to avoid giving offence as most of us have black friends . Of course , whenever someone like Skippy Gates makes the news I'm tempted to rethink that philosophy.
Finally, one of my favorite hunting buddies and a fine woodsman is a native of Ohio. He retired from the Air Force in Sumter and has raised his sons and made his home here . Guys like that are always going to be welcomed .

212

Here is Mark Steyn writing about Arnold Schwartzenegger. I think he sums up the social liberal/ fiscal conservative pretty well.

 A “social liberal/fiscal conservative” is not necessarily a girly-man, more of a pre-op transsexual.

...
But the reality is that almost every “socially liberal, fiscally conservative” politician turns out to be fiscally liberal — in the same way that, if you mix half a pint of vanilla ice cream with half a pint of horse manure, it’s not hard to figure which taste will predominate.

213 Did you know McCain had an affair, Curmudgeon?

214 Honestly, that sounds better than the improper grammar he was using in that speech.  "err" sounds like a thought is coming, saying""We got too many Jim DeMints and Tom Coburns," sounds like your most educated thoughts have already been spoken.

- angry southerner

215
The proper response is not "Don't let the door hit you in the ass." it is

KISS MY REBEL ASS!

216 yes, all of you racist bible-thumpers please confine yourself to the south, i give you ten years before you start owning slaves again....

217

Southrons ( fuck that yankee Websters )  have carried the water for the Republicant party for years;only to have yankees vote in the Olympia Snowes, Susan Collins and the Arlen Spectums and Voinobitches to screw us. A job well done, bluebellies.

Please have the guts to purge your  fuckups. And stay where you live, we don't like carpetbaggers too much down here.

218 Shouldn't he be representing San Francisco?

219 What an effin wimp!!  George, GO HOME YOU COWARDLY FOOL.

220

well, if illegal immigration, affirmative action, opposition to gay marriage and welfare reform weren't social con issues, am I somehow to think that the Repub squishes were the ones pushing the issues and Snowe/Collins/Graham/Spector/Voino were all rock ribbed in pushing for them?  Am I forgetting Arnie as well-is he strong on any of these issues?  Or are social con issues simply the ooga booga god stuff? 

221   IS THERE ANYONE FROM THE MIDDLE HERE THAT CAN VERIFY WHAT FRAKYPANTS AND RAY ARE TELLING US YOU BELIVE?

Cause I don't believe they know you that well.

Anyone?

222

Ray, Frankypants

The gay marriage issue is being forced on us by liberals, the media (BIRM), and liberal judges intent on making everyone recognize as an equal, M/M or W/W marriage to M/W.  We're not allowed to think it's immoral or we're biggots, homophobs, etc.  The left is intent on forcing all of us to agree with them.  They make it an issue. 

Gays, as buzzion so elequently answered in 150, don't need our permission to do what they do when they do.  But, they should need permission to rewrite hundreds of years of moral and civil code because they want it that way.  Remember, the burden of proof for a rational reason is on the side asking for the change, not the status quo.  It's amusing to me that those who screamed the loudest in the 60's and 70's that you can't legislate morality are forcing as much of their moraility on us they can as fast as they can.

The data on abortion is not kind to the left.  It is rarely, and I mean rarely, used for cases of rape, incest, mother's health.  It is stastically undeniable that it's birth-control.  I happen to believe the state forcing me to sanction that type of birth control is worth voting against. 

Name 1 significant social issue in the last 50 years where the wise moderates have compromised to the right side of the issue.  Affirmitive action, abortion, amnesty, gay marriage...the moderates all always seem to vote for the compromise that makes the left happy. 

223 The straw man of social liberal/fiscal con is a red herring. There are social cons like Huckabee who are not the fiscal conservatives. Different morality pushing, same fiscal results. How about just plain the government stays out of my life, money and business? Why put up with either side's morality pushing? You can not win a majority by alienating gen-y, libertarians and social moderates. Yes, we will have a red south, which is why I like living here, but not a red federal government, which unfortunately trumps having a red state. 

FYI, to the fisherman, the blogs I frequent are Powerline, here, Gateway Pundit, Patterico's, Jawa Report, Hot Air, Red State, and a handful of minor libertarian blogs. I stopped visiting LGF when he went off the deep end and started banning everyone last year.

224

LEAVE VOINOVICH ALONE!!! LEAVE HIM ALONE!!!

(sobs/blubbers)

225 What the hell happened to this guy?

Woosh.

Posted by: WTGOhio at July 28, 2009 01:10 PM (Gzns3)

He was never that fucking good; he just kept getting elected because he was better than the lunatics he ran against or replaced, but he never faced a primary challenge against a real conservative.  Everybody knows what a fucking nutjob Kucinich is but Celeste was like a northern version of Slick (complete with a lesbian wife) in terms of being complete human garbage.  George got his ass kicked when he ran against Metzenbaum, including the weird charge that Howard was soft on child-porn (he probably was but that's a claim that can earn you a lot of ridicule from the likes of brain-dead John Glenn unless you've got a video of him sodomizing an infant).  There was a lot to criticize a cocksucker like Metzenbaum, who made his fucking jack from operating goddamn parking lots (a nice cash bidness if you know what I mean) and then sticking the wood to anybody else who wanted to improve their lot in life.  But Voinovich took a powder on that, probably because he was illegally steering so much business to his POS brother, Paul, who's now dead and is probably the reason George is retiring since he can't benefit from any more kickbacks.

226

"We're moving closer to a point where we can hold insurance companies accountable," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a Democrat, told reporters, repeating her frequent prediction that once a bill hits the floor for a vote "it will win."  From Hot Air link

"We're moving closer to a point where we can hold every subject under our rule insurance companies accountable," House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, a Democrat, told reporters, repeating her frequent prediction that once a bill hits the floor for a vote "it will win."

FIFY, Nan.

 

You see, moderates, at some point, they will come for something you find worth fighting for. 

227 And they'll of course be coming up to the Midwest in November right? You know when the chance of snow is pretty good. Nice cold days where maybe, where your speedy little receivers can't catch a ball because their hands are frozen.

Sure. FSU and Miami get the occasional trip to Bah-ston College every couple of years. Actually, FSU goes every-other-year seeing as they're division rivals.

A shame the Big Teneleven is allergic to going on the road in football - most big, out of conference games happen at home. They always play the ACC in basketball home-and-home.

Ironically, they usually get their asses handed to them in that sport as well.

228 222. My immediate snap responses:

Regarding the gay marriage issue, just get the government out of marriage. Adults can enter into civil contracts recognized by the state. "Marriage" is a religious ceremony/sacrament with requirements established by the religion without interference from the state.

Abortion is a balance of the rights of the mother vs. the unborn fetus/baby. Mother's rights predominate up to viability, when then the unborn baby's rights predominate except in cases of possible severe health/death of the mother. It's not what I would prefer, but it is a balanced compromise.

I am not a moderate, but I understand the GOP needs to not drive them all away if it wants a national majority in congress. It can gain converts and win by emphasizing the areas of fiscal policy, liberty, defense, and conservation.

229

223--Ray " How about just plain the government stays out of my life, money and business?"

Agree completely.  Tell B to the O to leave my SUV, thermostat, light bulbs, health care and food pantry alone.  Tell liberal judges to stop tryying to force me to recognize as equal M/M and W/W v M/W marriages.  Tell liberal judges to stop forcing me to sanction abortion as birth control.  Tell the pro-ams that people here illegally shouldn't be here in the first place and certainly shouldn't get my tax dollars as an enabler to remain here.

Again, all of these are issues becuase the left is pushing them on us, not the other way around. 

230 A shame the Big Teneleven is allergic to going on the road in football - most big, out of conference games happen at home. They always play the ACC in basketball home-and-home.

Ironically, they usually get their asses handed to them in that sport as well.

Posted by: I R A Darth Aggie at July 28, 2009 02:30 PM (1hM1d)

No "usually" about it; the Big Televen has lost the ACC challenge every year.

231

Circa also called him a coward because he hadn't addressed every one Circa's objections and insults.

Hey, asshat junior--I called him a liar because he is one.  Compare and contrast:

From Ray:  "but we and the rest of the country get distracted from these core items when the social cons in the south push the crazy issues like intelligent design, gay marriage, Obama's birth certificate, etc.. It is the crazy social con items that may have people in other parts of the country frustrated with the GOP."

Here's what I said in reply:  You are an asshat, too.  Tell me how any of those three issues you mentioned are in any way concentrated in the South.  PROP 8--HELLO!!!

Mutilated into this later by Ray:  summarized it has been "you don't like the southern inspired soc con agenda, then go fk yourself" 

That.  Is.  A.  Lie.

So, frakypants--in the immortal words of  Junior Soprano:  Go shit in your hat.

 

 

 

232 ray,

Not to question your truthiness, but I've not seen you in the AoS HQ comments before. And I've been here from nearly the beginning. So when you claim to frequent the top conservative blogs like you're running down a list you lose some credibility.

And even if you are a conservative (and I doubt it) you'd do well not to buy the MSM's line that conservatives are all the things you've mentioned above. Most of us just want a less intrusive federal government for all the reasons articulated by Publius* all those years ago. But it's nice to see you warming so nicely to the Liberal talking point.

BTW, isn't it funny that gay pride parades (like those documented by Zombie) aren't representative of the Left? And the Mexican separatists only represent a Leftist fringe? Ditto those in favor of reparations?

Funny how it's only social cons (as defined by ray) who represent the larger movement and cost it votes.

*Granted, most people haven't read the Federalist Papers. But most of the lessons therein have been absorbed into the conservative conscience through long experience and common sense.

233 Senator Never-Heard-of-Him is now on my shit list. As a proper Southern lady, I sparingly use crass words like "shit," but I'll make an exception for him.

Posted by: Girl Thursday

If you make a a decent mint julep, I might be in love.

234

 we and the rest of the country get distracted from these core items when the social cons in the south push the crazy issues like intelligent design, gay marriage, Obama's birth certificate, etc..

I see that California has been overrun by social-cons.

235 When we southerners reintroduce slavery in ten yrs.I have dibs on Druggy Bear.
I can't wait to see his fat ass sweating in my cotton field .
He's probably whackin' it to that fantasy .

236 besides, Jim DeMint and Tom Coburn are creationists. Voinovich is just trying to save his party from theocratic anti-science zealots.

237

Welfare reform, stopping illegal immigration and affirmative action are not what we're talking about here. Those are held by pretty much all conservatives and most libertarians. They are rationally supported issues with mainstream appeal. What I and (I think) ray are talking about is how a very small group of conservatives with little actual policy-making power are blown out of proportion and used to scare the middle.

 

 Opposition to gay marriage is a least as widespread as opposition to affirmative action and illegal immigraton. And probably more widespread than support for wefare reform. This stupid bullshit about how social-con issues are dragging down the GOP needs a stake driven through its heart. They're the only thing keeping the party afloat.

238

194 Ohio is a state that people move away from (same for Michigan). South Carolina is a state that people move to.

Yeah, but they have to come through Charlotte to get to Myrtle Beach, and the fuckers are always on the phone and in some beat up rusted car.  You guys ever heard of airplanes? or MAPS?

The only ones worse are the West Virginia rednecks, they can't read and usually miss the exit so they are lost for days trying to get on US 74. In there defense, they will get drunk though. Usually at the 7 11 buying beer and cigs, at 8 am.

Please remember the NAACP still has a boycott on SC, why don't you fuckers go to Lake Michigan?

Cause its on fire?

Kemp

239 Oklahoma isn't the South. Some in Oklahoma will tell you otherwise, but it isn't.

I would tend to agree. I haven't found any evidence that the restaurants in Okieland serve sweet tea.

It's a southern thing. Y'all wouldn't understand.

240 why don't you fuckers go to Lake Michigan?

I don't claim to speak for Midwesterners, because I'm not originally from here; but the Great Lakes can be nice in their own way, but there's nothing like the force of the ocean.

241

My point was that the moderates and even non-hardcore liberals I know (and read) have a bug up their ass about people with religion. I don't disagree that the statist social libs certainly legislate their preferred morality -- they do.

They are called "bigots" and we don't need to pander to bigots. 

But to cherry-pick an issue from your list: gay marriage. From a liberty standpoint, two people should be able to enter into a contract if they want to.

You don't know the meaning of the word liberty. Two people should not be able to enter into a contract "if they want to" A contact is not between two people. A contract is with the larger society.

 While a large portion of Americans think it's immoral -- making it unpopular -- I've not heard a rational, coherent argument against it.

Then you badly need to open your eyes and hears and knock off the idiotic libertarian fantasy that your own beliefs are "rational" and "coherent" and not based on silly "morality".

242

the rest of the nation, even though they support fiscally conservative principals, continues to elect crazy donks? I wonder why... perhaps because they don't agree with crazy social con agenda.

The rest of the nation supports the Demorats because they are fiscally liberal.

The only fiscally conservatve politicans in this country are also social conservatives. For some reason faux libertarians like you never come to grips with that basic reality.

243 Where is Preston Brooks when you need him? http://geeitscoldinhere.blogspot.com/2009/07/cane-enabled.html

244 No "usually" about it; the Big Televen has lost the ACC challenge every year.

D'oh! So much for the vaunted superiority of the Yankee ubermench.

245 yes, all of you racist bible-thumpers please confine yourself to the south, i give you ten years before you start owning slaves again....

Posted by: DruggyBear at July 28, 2009 01:49 PM (K2aR3)

 

The only thing you should look into owning is a brain.

246 I R A Darth Aggie,

The Big East -- ACC Challenge didn't go too well for the Yanks either. But at least the Big East won a time or two in the mid-80s.

That said, a Big 12 -- ACC Basketball Challenge would be lopsided too.

247 229. Hammer, we agree on most points with regard to desired policy outcomes. Getting to those outcomes will only be possible with the control a majority provides. The GOP will not get a majority without some more gen-y's, libertarians, social moderates and minorities than it got the last couple of election cycles. The difference in gaining the necessary converts is in what they perceive as the GOP's real priorities and agenda.

234. Yeah, how is that issue helping the GOP in CA win elections there? Did they gain anything other than a bunch of bad press and protests. It was a pyrrhic victory.

242. Huckabee and Bush were fiscally conservative?

248

Huckabee and Bush were fiscally conservative?

Depends who you compare them to. Like, compared to the bunch in power now, they look like Milton Freidman.

249

Huckabee and Bush were fiscally conservative?

Mount Rainer is the tallest mountain on Earth?

 

how is that issue helping the GOP in CA win elections there?

You make seattle slow seem like a brain surgon. Do you deny that it is a fact that social conservative issues are more popualr in Califrnia than is the Republican Party? When you say 'yes", the next question wll be "what issues are really making the GOP unpopular, since gay marrige is not one of then?".

250 248. I understand, but if the GOP has to compromise somewhere, I would much prefer the second to the last place they comprise be the area of fiscal conservatism.

251

I would much prefer the second to the last place they comprise be the area of fiscal conservatism.

Has any libertarian ever wondered why neither parry is much interested in fiscal conservatism? Considering that libertarians believe that there are masses of fiscally conservative people in the country it seem like an obvious question.

252 249. Your post is another example of what repels rather than attracts. The insults only tarnish, they never help. To answer the question, I don't know why the GOP continues to fail in CA, I don't live there. I do know the decline started with their great pyrrhic victory with proposition 187. Surely the prop 8 victory will reward them to an equal degree.

253

I do know the decline started with their great pyrrhic victory with proposition 187.

The great pyrrhic victory with proposition 187? You are no libertarian, Mr Moby. Stop pretending to be one.

254 251. I am sure they have wondered, and they still haven't found a solution to the issue. The majority of people only seem to pay attention to the fiscal issues when the economy is in the ditch, or they perceive one of the parties is doing something major that will put it in the ditch. We are in one of those periods, doubly so.

255 Circa: I see you bring the charm that wins the elections. Good on you.

flenser: There's a difference between pandering and not giving your enemy ammunition. In fact, that's one of the major topics here that Ace came down on and took a lot of flack for. There are better ways to present ourselves, and part of that is pinpointing the negotiable stuff that puts a lot of people off. Is there a better way we can present this so as to actually, like, win an election? And sorry I didn't put on my legal hat -- a contract is a binding agreement between parties. Obviously, that contract is only as binding as the force of the society behind it.

If this is how you guys deal with people in general in your lives ... wow. Kind of stunning. On the other hand -- you must be hell on wheels when arguing with enemies as opposed to people who probably share your policy goals. And charming. I'm sure you're charming, too.

256 253. Calling it what it was doesn't mean i don't agree with its sentiments, because I do. I am strongly supportive of border security and ssn job verification, but that doesn't change history. Your instincts appear in need of calibration. I still don't know what moby implies, please educate me on the term.

257 255. Nice, I really enjoy a well done mildly sarcastic compliment. Yes, some are charming as charmin.

258 ray -- a "moby" is someone who goes to a political website, pretending to agree with their point of view, but then attempting to sow discord.

Look, I realize this is AoSH and everything, and we love to snack on hobo brains and baptize our illegitimate babies in Valu-Rite. It's not debate club. But it bugs me that someone can't try to make a legitimate argument without being called a liar or a coward, or told that they don't the meaning of the word liberty, or any of a host of other insults. Some people here either need an education in how one is supposed to treat their allies, or, more likely, some rejiggering of their threat detectors. Recognize allies -- don't shoot at them. Save your bullets for the bad guys. And hobos.

259

a contract is a binding agreement between parties. Obviously, that contract is only as binding as the force of the society behind it.

In other words, a contract is betwwen two or more parties and the society they are a part of. For some reason libertarains, like liberals, think that society does not get to decide which contracts it ought to be a part of.

you must be hell on wheels when arguing with enemies as opposed to people who probably share your policy goals.

ray does not share my policy goals. He's a liberal.

As for real libertarians, it's worth arguing with them because they don't seem to grasp that their means and their goals contradict one another, and in theory they can be made to see this. At least if they are even half as rational at they like to thnk.

260

I still don't know what moby implies

A moby is the sort of person who goes around saying "I don't know what moby means".

Your instincts appear in need of calibration.

Something you would only say if you understood the term moby.

 

261

it bugs me that someone can't try to make a legitimate argument without being called a liar or a coward, or told that they don't the meaning of the word liberty, or any of a host of other insults.

Libertarians don't know the meaning of the word "liberty". That is not an insult. It's a fact. Libertarians are to liberty as liberals are to wealth. They know they want it but they are clueless as to where it comes from. They think that people are born with it, sort of like a invisable appendage.

Some people here either need an education in how one is supposed to treat their allies

Act lke an ally and I'll reconize you as one. Defend a troll like ray and I won't. The substance of what he said was addressed and rejected. It is a lie to suggest that southern conservatives are more big governement than other conservatives.

If you want to disagree with the substance of the rebuttals that were given to ray, go ahead.

262

there aren't that many "real" libertarians.  mostly, you have the pot legalizers, who are like the liberals who only think about abortion, and the neo nazis (Ron Paul's base).  throw in a few academics who write against the State while on the public dime and you've pretty much got them covered.  the ones who call themselves libertarians but still find a way to vote D are just morons.

263

I am sure they have wondered, and they still haven't found a solution to the issue. The majority of people only seem to pay attention to the fiscal issues when the economy is in the ditch

 

Well, yes. So what price the belief that the American electrorate are crying out for fiscally conservative/socially liberal leadership? How is it that some people keep telling themselves this in spite of the mountains of evidence to the contrary?

 

A couple of years ago the Big Libertarian Idea was to move to NH and take over that state and elect real libertarians to Congress. What happened? It's almost like the number of real libertarians in America could fill one small town.  

264 Ron Paul isn't a neo-Nazi. Can people on the right stop talking like frickin' moonbats?

265

he might not be-he certainly wasn't too careful in his choice of associations or newsletter editors. 

266 flesner -- I don't think the electorate is really crying out for anything. Basically, around 65-70% people pay no attention to politics or national issues unless there is a major election imminent, or something is going really badly -- like a fiscal crisis. Then, they read some headlines and go with their gut. Usually their gut says: it something bad is happening to me, it because of the people currently in charge. And thus the political world turns.

When I say that people in general support fiscal responsiblity, what I mean is that when put to a question and asked to think about, a large majority of people do support it. However, they don't actively support it. Only when pressed and when the issue is presented fairly. The rest of the time, they don't give a shit.

And, you might have to put me knowledge, but I was under the impression that "liberty" was a condition. A continuum along which states of being can exist. There a large number of external and internal factors that dictate where along that continuum any particular individual falls, including (but not limited to) the government they live under, how much and what type of material resources they have, how clearly they think and how much personal skill they possess. Your definition may vary.

Also, I wasn't defending ray's original statement that the stuff that looks bad comes from Southern social conservatives. The later stuff and the silly jumping-to-conclusions attacks was that upon which I first commented.

267

Circa: I see you bring the charm that wins the elections. Good on you.

Care to address the point?  Coward.

268 I met the SOB in DC at a party and refused to shake his hand.  The guy is a real dick.  I am glad he's leaving and his toady Dewine lost.  Hopefully Ohio conservatives will find their soul this election cycle.

269 "Libatarians" who vote 'D' ( Bill Maher)  only call themselves libatarians so they can pay for 5 dollar tranny hookers without the threat of being arrested. 

270

Charlie Crist is a Southerner ... and I'll be Voin likes him.

 

I bet he likes him a lot.

 

Especially Charlie's tan.

271

I am originally from Oklahoma, currently live in the People's Republic of Illinois.  When I moved to Memphis a decade or two ago, my wife was commenting to some of the locals that "My husband is from the south, he is from Oklahoma."  Their response was "Oh, honey, that's not the south."  Their thinking is that Oklahoma was Indian Territory during the War of Northern Aggression, so it can't be the south.

However, you can get grits in restaurants in the morning and sweet tea in most places, so it is almost a southern state.

272 The fiscally conservative/socially liberal is a crock and a myth.  It will never work.

The socially liberal side will always outweigh the fiscally conservative side. 

There will always be more social programs that need money/spending. 

More is the operative word there.

273

I was under the impression that "liberty" was a condition.

Liberty to do what? Every school of thought has a different answer to that question, including libertarians, who want people to be free to behave as libertarians think they should and not free to behave as libertarians think they should not.

The later stuff and the silly jumping-to-conclusions attacks was that upon which I first commented.

Once rays inital assertions were debunked, we moved on the the "later stuff" aka name calling, as is SOP around here.

274 As to whether Oklahoma is a southern state. As an Okie, I say no. Maybe in the south-east corner you could make that mistake, or so I've heard, never been there, but where I live Southern accents are rare, and most people here tend to identify Oklahoma as it's own unique place, not south or Midwest.

275 I'd vote for Foghorn Leghorn if he'd cut taxes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LCsiWL6gn0#t=3m50s

276

I'm planning on moving to the Tampa area, I have friends in Clearwater.

I'm fucking tired of having to watch what I say and to be politically correct in Central Ohio.

Blacks are blacks, whites are whites and mexicans are mexicans, ese.

277

Look at it like this: fiscal responsibility, individual liberty and strong foreign policy sells very well with the American people

 

Yes, that's why the Democoms have total control of government - because the American people want fiscal responsibility. And they voted against the GOP because Bush was a darn theocon who wanted us to have sex only once a week in the missionary position.

278 flenser - what is funny is you lie about what other people say. I never said southern conservatives are more big government that other conservatives. There is nothing even close to stating a belief in those words. That you state such a lie at the very end as a justification for your irrational comments from the beginning demonstrates immaturity. You never once addressed the substance of what I said. How does your epic fail taste?

279 Oklahoma is part of the Plains States, not the South.

Other states not in the South:
Texas -- It exists unto itself.
Louisiana -- It would be Southern if not for the Creole influence.
Florida -- Below Tampa is Northern Cuba and that's not Southern.

280

Dave, Entropy, yinzer, Brandon, et al:

FUCK YOU. Do not blame all of us native Ohioans for the likes of Voinovich (a RINO) or that fucking moonbat Kucinich. We Ohio conservatives (especially in the Cleveland area) are painfully aware of the fact that we are being suffocated in a democratic stronghold: http://tinyurl.com/mg3fgt

Some of your own states have their fair share of assclowns, past and present. Case in point: John Murtha (PA), Al Franken (MN), Nancy Pelosi (CA), Robert Byrd (WV), Ted Kennedy (MA), Ernest Hollings (SC),  Jimmy Carter (GA), Keith Ellison (MN, and a radical MUSLIM, no less) John Edwards (NC), John Conyers (MI), Sheila Jackson Lee (TX),Slick Wille Clinton (AK), and last but certanly not least, OBAMA (IL).

There's lots of glass houses out there.

281

@Ben,

Don't like Cleveland?  Things could be worse....like Pittsburgh.  

Pittsburgh Is Dead to Me!
TONY DEL PRETE, GIBSONIA

Paying homage to Romero’s latest money fest, it’s time to admit it, all you yinzer zombies:
Pittsburgh is dead. I know it’s a stake in the heart, but we are not America’s most livable city, nor the city of champions. That occurred a generation ago, when Dawn of the Dead debuted. No, today we’re more like an ongoing high school reunion, with nothing but faded memories of the glory days and the prospect of life in the land of the dead.

But what can we expect from a town where Donnie Iris is considered a rocker and the hokey-pokey an anthem; where prominent mouthpieces (sorry, Myr’n) promote Pittsburghese; where potholes outnumber the people; and where the populace responds to the boom of fireworks like Pavlov’s dogs?

With the second-oldest county in the U.S. at our core, it’s unfair to blame the many optimists trying to revive Picksburgh. The reality is that until all of the provincial, stubborn bigots of the Steel City’s legacy die off, this city will continue its slide toward becoming a ghost town. And if we continue to live in the past, then we can’t expect or envision much of a future. Personally, I don’t hold out much hope. So I’ll offer some resuscitation strategies of my own while planning where I’ll retire once my kids grow up (and hopefully move away).

First, let’s replace the dinosaurs around town with, well, dinosaurs. We can erect likenesses of the ’70s Stillers on every corner. (Hell, for a couple of bucks or a Primanti’s sandwich, we might be able get some of the real guys to stand there.) That way, when people mumble about the Immaculate Reception to kids who could care less, at least they’ll have some idea of what’s going on inside the rotting brains of Steeler Nation. The Pirates and Penguins will be represented with holographs of their players — which, to most Pittsburghers, never existed anyway.

During the day, various unemployed workers could collect turn-signal bulbs, ashtrays and other unused items from drivers, which can be sold to pay for fire and police protection. In school, children would be reminded that “ain’t” ain’t a word, but yinz need to study for a test ’n ’at. Both newspapers would reformat to become all opinion, all the time. Television stations will drop their “World in a Minute” segment to devote even more time to weather reports. Target, Wal-Mart and TJ Maxx would be the cornerstone of Plan F.

Then, each evening after work, giant speakers would blast the hokey-pokey — “You put the right wing in, you kick the left wing out …” This could be followed by the Chicken Dance, which would mesmerize jaywalkers and gridlockers alike, prompting a Thriller dance-a-thon into the night. (Best big hair and most realistic hair plugs win Sophie Masloff screeching bobbleheads.)

Finally, when the skyline advertising is at its brightest, we can celebrate “mill night” with orange spotlights, sparkling confetti and smog machines reminiscent of our fossil-fuel heydays. All of this would obviously culminate with a nightly fireworks display. Afterward, as everyone returns home to the suburbs, “We are Family” would play incessantly on every radio station in town (except WYEP, which would take the opportunity to beg for even more money).

I don’t mean to rain on everyone’s parade, but that’s a typical forecast for Deadtown so it shouldn’t matter. If you’re going to stick around until this horror movie ends, then try to look on the bright side. When the latest multimillion-dollar boondoggle — the underwater passage from Dahntahn to the stadiums — is complete, you can call it The Funnel. Here, overpriced, unhealthy foods a la the arts festival can be sold complete with enough giveaways that pedestrians will wander aimlessly until their finals days, which, for me, can’t come soon enough. Rest In Pittsburgh. (R.I.P.).

“I don’t mean to rain on everyone’s parade, but that’s a typical forecast here, so it shouldn’t matter.

Nuff’ said.

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