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| Okay, One More Thing on RicciJustice Ginsburg chose to read her dissent aloud this morning, something she does in cases she particularly feels have been wrongly decided. There is still quite a gap between Right and Left when it comes to race issues. One side has firmly grasped the concept that discrimination on the basis of race is a bad thing in all circumstances. The other believes that discrimination is regrettable but necessary. The problem with this second view--the Left's view--is that the "necessary" justification never ends. Says the Left: we must discriminate in favor of some groups because they were discriminated against in the past. Well, okay, but how long is the Left gonna ride that horse? Justice O'Connor, writing in a law school admissions race discrimination case six years ago, thought that the use of racial preferences wouldn't be necessary in twenty-five years. Twenty-five years! How did she pick twenty-five years? We will never know. It was, however, a safe bet that she would be long off the scene by then and so not resposible if the anticipated Day When Discrimination is Not Necessary never appears. That was Justice O'Connor. Justice Ginsburg, even further to the Left on race issues, was not willing to even to go that far. Today it shows again, as she casually discards an objective test for promotion in favor of subjective measures of "command presence" which can result in more defensible decisions based on race. The objective test stands in the way of her preferred result, so it has to go. It is a "flawed test", not because of any proven deficiency in the exam, but because it fails to provide the necessary result. Wise Latina Overruled 9-0? [ace]: Ed Whelan at Bench Memos argues the decision is actually 9-zip against Sotomayor -- because even Justice Ginsburg says (though only in a footnote) that the appellate court should have remanded the case back to the district court, not summarily affirmed the lower decision.Comments1
Sorry for being racist Justice Ginsburg.
Posted by: Child Rearing at June 29, 2009 11:10 AM (GtYrq) 2
Sadly Gabe that is the extent of the legal theory of the liberals, including Kennedy. The end result MUST be what they want and they will torture their interpretations to fit that outcome regardless of what the text says. Hell, they will even go to foreign law to get their desired results. Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2009 11:10 AM (5ynkO) 3
The left defines people as being acted upon, rather than being actors. Bad Things happen for mysterious reasons.....and only government can set things right when the slings and arrows of outrageous misfortune come your way.
Rational people, by contrast, figure that there are winners and losers -- and although the race is not always to the swift, that's generally the way to lay your bets. Posted by: cthulhu at June 29, 2009 11:15 AM (m5ie4) 4
Anyone seen the Jeff Toobin spin yet?
I'm guessing he's having a hard time carrying the liberal sceptor today. Posted by: WTF Capital Investments at June 29, 2009 11:15 AM (GtYrq) 5
#2 Which really is the only reason I've ever seen a judge refer to foreign laws. If you can't find an answer in U.S. law or common law, then you're lookign too hard for something that not only isn't there, but isn't supposed to be there.
Posted by: Shillelagh at June 29, 2009 11:16 AM (Oz4Bj) 6
What they're not very good about is explaining why fellows named Ricci, who may make 60K/yr or so deserve to bear the costs of this remedial discrimination.
Because I can pretty well guarantee that it wasn't fellows named Ricci who profited from Slavery and the rest. Preferences for legacies, i.e. all four Gore children, continue unabated. Posted by: Alec Leamas at June 29, 2009 11:17 AM (AlKlj) 7
Things come full circle, intangible qualities like command presence used to be a way of supporting certain racially biased actions. That forced to more objective tests and now the idiotic Ginsburg is running back to subjective reasons.
Posted by: joeindc44 at June 29, 2009 11:18 AM (QxSug) 8
Justice O'Connor, writing in a law school admissions race
discrimination case six years ago, thought that the use of racial
preferences wouldn't be necessary in twenty-five years
It's settled then; all this horseshit expires in 2028. Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 29, 2009 11:19 AM (5aa4z) 9
I see AA just as I do 'the good ole boys club'. With both in place, people question if you are able to do your job. They immediately wonder if you there because you are a minority or know someone higher up. I think both create a lot of racism.
Posted by: momma at June 29, 2009 11:21 AM (penCf) 10
haaa, i don't even have slave blood and i got to ride the aa wave - wait until i pay myself next year with repirations.
Posted by: BH Obama at June 29, 2009 11:21 AM (n2vBd) 11
What a pity for the noble "conservatives" that Hispanics are the fastest growing group in America.
And they disagree. Posted by: poon at June 29, 2009 11:22 AM (i31Zq) 12
We just elected a black man President. Therefore, all of the racist shit is over - with regards to African Americans. We just need to elect Sarah in 2012 and it will be done for women as well. Simple, settled.
Posted by: Jean at June 29, 2009 11:22 AM (L64A6) 13
It's settled then; all this horseshit expires in 2028.
Umm. Sure. OK. If it makes you feel any better. Posted by: World go Boom 2012 at June 29, 2009 11:22 AM (GtYrq) 14
Only racial discrimination can help us end racial discrimination. Similarly, as we're learning this year, only irresponsible gov't spending can help us end irresponsible gov't spending.
I'm A Nitwit, And I Vote. Posted by: Herr Doktor Lieber von Hinten at June 29, 2009 11:23 AM (FcR7P) 15
According to GWP: Today Judge Sotomayor has dropped to 2 for 6-- She has been overruled 66% of the time by the Supreme Court. Posted by: momma at June 29, 2009 11:24 AM (penCf) 16
I think you may be giving the left a bit too much credit. In large part their argument is not that discrimination is justified in some circumstances; it's that the discrimination is so justified that it ceases to be discrimination.
Posted by: vermin at June 29, 2009 11:24 AM (n82GS) 17
Well, okay, but how long is the Left gonna ride that horse?
They won't get off that horse for two reasons. All things are political, from the daily minutiae to large institutions, everything must be examined from the angle of power and who has a 'right' to exercise that power. Secondly, why would they willingly give up that club with which to beat Conservatives over the head? Posted by: Chimney Sweep #8 at June 29, 2009 11:25 AM (kIjlp) 18
When Obama eliminates the SCOTUS, all of this won't really matter. I know you're thinking that that can't ever happen.
But if no one reads legislation before it's passed, anything is possible. Anything at all. Posted by: SlaveDog at June 29, 2009 11:26 AM (H6Jyg) 19
YES!
Posted by: pale penis person at June 29, 2009 11:28 AM (PD1tk) Posted by: momma at June 29, 2009 11:30 AM (penCf) 21
What a pity for the noble "conservatives" that Hispanics are the fastest growing group in America. A hispanic person was specifically discrimated AGAINST in the original ruling. Grim Posted by: Grim at June 29, 2009 11:30 AM (gyNYk) 22
So, in other words, pompous babykilling bitch Ginsburg, who's never met a left wing cause she wouldn't lie for or a disparity she wouldn't blame on racism, suddenly decided that there were actually more qualified minorities in New Haven for the job than an objective test said. owl-faced brainless hag. Posted by: lurker at June 29, 2009 11:31 AM (AqLUZ) 23
25 years was easy - O'Connor picked a date by which time she knew that she would have long since passed on and thus would never have to personally deal with any of the consequences. (she was 73 when she came up with that) It was a classic "I know it's wrong, but I don't want to deal with it, I want YOU to deal with when I'm outta here" decision. Posted by: wws at June 29, 2009 11:32 AM (T1boi) 24
Racism ceased to exist the day that legislation outlawing it was passed. We once fixed real problems. Now the legal system only creates problems, encouraged by professional racists like Jackson and Sharpton. When the law becomes subjective (mostly due to fuzzy language meant to encourage litigation) nothing will be fair. Remember when everyone had a pretty good idea of what was legal and what wasn't? Yeah, me neither. Posted by: BackwardsBoy at June 29, 2009 11:32 AM (ZGhSv) 25
"penumbra"... "command presence"... These leftie judges just love to pull phrases out of their asses, don't they? Posted by: Gran at June 29, 2009 11:33 AM (xmjMj) 26
"Because I can pretty well guarantee that it wasn't fellows named Ricci who profited from Slavery and the rest." That's my answer whenever someone asks me about affirmative action or reparations (which, admittedly, isn't often). When slavery was going down, my people were still stomping on grapes and pressing olives into oil back in Sicily. Heck, we didn't even pass through Ellis Island until after WWI. I've been following this case since I first heard of it back in April. My father, who had worked in federal law enforcement for over 30 years, was repeatedly burned by affirmative action and so-called "reverse discrimination." It crushed him seeing completely incompetant and unqualified men get promoted above him simply because they were black and he wasn't. Here's hoping this case is only the beginning and will help turn the tide back toward at least a semblance of a meritocracy. Posted by: CMS2004 at June 29, 2009 11:33 AM (Q0dlN) 27
The far left and their chosen vehicle, the Democratic Party, are obsessed with race. Without a 90% vote among African Americans, they quickly become a footnote. Ginsburg, like most lefties, doesn't care a bit about the Constitution, laws or anything else that might prevent their desired political outcome. There will never be an end because it would limit their power to dictate to those of us they can't convince.
They worship power and will do anything to retain it. Posted by: Ken Hahn at June 29, 2009 11:35 AM (PMRIB) 28
When will Clarence Thomas tell the liberal WHITE people on the S.C. to STFU when speaking for his race? God whatever we did as a country I apologize, can you now please please please relieve us of the pestilence of liberalism? Posted by: 12 Inch Middle Finger at June 29, 2009 11:38 AM (n2vBd) 29
I like the part where Ginsburg suggests that New Haven should have just violated their contract with the firefighter's union by using a selection method other than the one prescribed in that contract.
Posted by: Pablo at June 29, 2009 11:38 AM (yTndK) 30
Justice O'Connor, writing in a law school admissions race discrimination
case six years ago, thought that the use of racial preferences wouldn't
be necessary in twenty-five years.
I guess in 2028 justices will be bound by stare decisis to follow this principle, right? Posted by: I have a Jalen Rose jersey at June 29, 2009 11:39 AM (4yrb2) 31
Score well on the exam, get promoted. So why not learn the fricking material and pass the test? Race doesn't make you stupid.
Posted by: SarahW at June 29, 2009 11:40 AM (r/1UT) 32
BO doesn't have to get "Fairness Doctrine" passed. Wording to attack talk radio is in the Hate Crimes Prevention Act HR1966 Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce [radio, TV, internet] any communication, with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person, using electronic means to support severe, repeated, and hostile behavior, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both. (HR 1966, SEC 3, Sec. 881a) http://tinyurl.com/nbr6d6 Posted by: momma at June 29, 2009 11:44 AM (penCf) 33
It's not as though the test too many questions about the series finale of "mad men" or sea salt or Peacoats
http://tiny.cc/qoE1P Posted by: SarahW at June 29, 2009 11:44 AM (r/1UT) 34
When slavery was going down, my people were still stomping on grapes and pressing olives into oil back in Sicily. And when slavery was going down, my people were attacking the slave masters in the press, in literature, in Congress, and ultimately, on the battlefield. Oh, and by the way, Bambi ... they won! So don't give me any of your "discrimination is okay if minorities do it to you whities" shit. I have a hell of a lot more ancestors pushing up daisies as a result of freeing black people than you do! Posted by: sherlock at June 29, 2009 11:44 AM (fKPuo) 35
So why not learn the fricking material and pass the test? Race doesn't make you stupid.
But that's exactly what Ginsberg and the like are arguing for. There is no hope of AAs passing the test as it currently exists, so other factors must be coonsidered when looking at who's worthy of promotion. Posted by: I have a Jalen Rose jersey at June 29, 2009 11:45 AM (4yrb2) 36
momma - NBC, CBS, ABC, and all of the left blogs, radio, etc will be fined out of existence just on what they say about Trig Palin.
Posted by: 12 Inch Middle Finger at June 29, 2009 11:46 AM (n2vBd) 37
Race doesn't make you stupid but racism sure does .
Examples,,,, poon , ginsburg, sotomayor, sharpton, farrakhan, and nagin. I could go on and on . Posted by: aubrey at June 29, 2009 11:46 AM (vJZ+j) 38
Race doesn't make you stupid.
Posted by: SarahW at June 29, 2009 11:40 AM (r/1UT) According to liberals, it does. That's why it buggers belief when lefties shout "racism" at everything that comes down the pike. Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 29, 2009 11:46 AM (5aa4z) 39
My father suffered this same racism as a San Francisco Firefighter. Back in the 80's, San Francisco was under a 'consent decree' to hire and promote minorities, women, gays, etc. This came about because of lawsuits that were based on outright lies, as found in the FBI's reports on the "incidents" that led to the lawsuits. It was all political, and the pig fed judge that issued the consent decree was none other than Carter appointee Marilyn Hall Patel, daughter of longtime head of Communist Party USA's Gus Hall. My father was a highly decorated lieutenant who scored in the top of his class for the captain's exam. He had been with the SFFD at this point for 20+ years as well. They pulled up the minorities, women, and gays to the top of the list, people with only a couple of years in the business in almost all cases, and filled the open slots, causing my father to remain a lieutenant. Fuck sotomayor, ginsburg, and all the racists that inhabit the left. Posted by: Uncle Jefe at June 29, 2009 11:47 AM (+3fAP) 40
It's conceivable that any number of conservative talk radio hosts could be charged with "causing substantial emotional distress" using "electronic means." Let's use it to get rid of rap. Posted by: huerfano at June 29, 2009 11:48 AM (knHvu) 41
Wording to attack talk radio is in the Hate Crimes Prevention Act HR1966.
Not too much to worry about right now. SCOTUS long ago ruled that the ‘speech” portion of hate crimes legislation was unconstitutional. (and that was with a much more liberal court). Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2009 11:49 AM (5ynkO) 42
Whoever transmits in
interstate or foreign commerce [radio, TV, internet] any
communication, with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause
substantial emotional distress to a person, using electronic means to
support severe, repeated, and hostile behavior, shall be fined under
this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.
That's every commenter here. Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 29, 2009 11:49 AM (5aa4z) 43
Remember the book "The Bell Curve", how it sent the left into a rabid fury. Kind of like when they see Sarah Palin now. However, the left denounced that race makes you stupid, yet AA acknowledges that in fact race does determine intelligence. When are the black people in this country going to realize that the just because the plantations are gone, does not mean that the Dems have stopped enslaving them. Posted by: 12 Inch Middle Finger at June 29, 2009 11:51 AM (n2vBd) 44
Actually the Hartford Advocate (the local alternative weekly) had a pretty good in depth article on this case a couple of months ago. The author layed out the case fairly and had to say that the facts and the law both supported the firefighters side, and then basically concluded with, "All that aside of course we have to support Affirmative Action." Ricci is a pretty interesting figure. He has been interested in fire and emergency services his whole life. (The kid who never got over wanting to be a fireman.) Was the youngest ever EMT (Emergency Medical Technician, basically ambulance crew) in Connecticut. Had to struggle to get into the fire service in the first place. (Don't remember exactly why, but in a lot of towns it is incredibly political.) He is also very dyslexic and has great trouble reading. He had his wife drill him on the study materials, and paid a whole lot of money to have thousands of pages of material read aloud onto audio tape so he could listen and memorize it. The test itself was not what the media would have you believe. A lot of the coverage is of the type that of course the test must have been racist. However the testing company went out of its way to avoid that. A lot is made of the supposed fact that minorities would do less well on a written test. The Media does not state that because of this the testing company decided that the written portion of the test would only be 30% of the final grade. Every question and answer on the written portion was covered somewhere in the written study materials. 70% of the test was practical/oral examination. Although 75% of the people taking the test were white the testing company had more than 70% of the evaluators conducting this portion of the test consist of minorities. The lawyers going over the exam to find "bad" questions (the infamous regatta question of urban lore) were stymied. The worst example they listed was a question, "When staging multiple units at a large fire should trucks and engines be parked facing up town or down town?" The answer was covered in the test prep material, however New Haven does not have a generally recognized up town. The question may have been influenced by New York city practices. The up shot is that the testers tried their absolute best to insure that minorities would pass this test. The fact that only whites passed is not the fault of either the test givers or the white firemen that took the test. I have always believed since this case first happened that every resident of New Haven has a class action claim against the city for not providing the best available fire service for the city. Posted by: Have Blue at June 29, 2009 11:57 AM (mV+es) Posted by: Schlippy at June 29, 2009 11:59 AM (xm1A1) 46
At some point, the training wheels have to come off.
Posted by: profligatewaste at June 29, 2009 12:01 PM (b3rrc) 47
Race doesn't make you stupid but racism sure does .
Staking out a philosophical position that pretty much guarantees your party will never win another national election ain't smart, aubrey. Posted by: poon at June 29, 2009 12:04 PM (i31Zq) 48
The election of the one was an affirmative action decision, and nothing more. Notice how no one wants to hear shit about affirmative action hiring when 10% of the population is out of work. Whats Al Sharpton doing today? He's not in DC protesting the SCOTUS, no he is meeting with the Jackson family and calling for a world wide prayer service for the dead cock holster of a pedophile drug addict Michael Jackson who spent his entire life trying to become WHITE. Anyone see the irony in all of this?
Posted by: 12 Inch Middle Finger at June 29, 2009 12:05 PM (n2vBd) 49
Staking out a
philosophical position that pretty much guarantees your party will
never win another national election ain't smart, aubrey.
While taking a position that is morally and intellectually indefensible, merely so as to "win" elections, is? You have to be a parody; no real leftist would be that bluntly honest about their lust for power. Posted by: Rob Crawford at June 29, 2009 12:07 PM (ZJ/un) 50
Look, let's be honest, the only Ricci I'm interested in discussing is this one.
Now, having said that, let's get to the whole ducking the Constitutional issue thing. Yes, I think that the Supremes ducked the issue. As Scalia notes, the day of reckoning on the Equal Protection Clause and the implementation of the Civil Rights Act is coming. I can, if I squint and tilt my head just so, see the rationale for avoiding it in this case. The general rule is that a decision isn't made on Constitutional grounds unless there's no other option. Here, the Court could bob and weave and natter on about the problems of contrary statutory requirements. Fine, fine, fine whatevs. But this is the US Supreme Court and, hell, cert shouldn't be granted if they don't want to wade into the thickets. Posted by: alexthechick at June 29, 2009 12:08 PM (SHHaV) 51
What is fun in this ruling is the cat-fight between Alito and Ginsburg. Big Sam slaps Buzzy with her loopy theories about equality and how the chain of events unfolded in New Haven.
Kennedy, for once, got it right. The larger question of how this affects Sotomayor remains unanswered - my guess is the real reason for Buzzy's long winded dissent wasn't her sympathy with the minorities in New Haven, but a chance to offer a bit of cover to her soon to be maybe colleague. Liberals universally will discard high principal anytime that gets in the way of taking care of their own. Posted by: Murph at June 29, 2009 12:08 PM (Mk493) 52
Poon, there won't be a country in 8 years if Mr. I am proving the book the Bell Curve correct stays in office. We'll see how you like it when you are standing in a bread line, waiting for your loaf, and told to shut the fuck up and report for work in an hour to make $10 a day so Obama care and whatever other chavez/castro/marx government run industry he creates can keep him in power and you on gov cheese.
Posted by: 12 Inch Middle Finger at June 29, 2009 12:08 PM (n2vBd) 53
Nice, but the libs, blacks and dems have too much invested in aa to ever give it up. It gives them power, and power is the ultimate value to ta dem. So look for the One to find a way to bypass this, maybe by packing the court like the lib idol FDR tried to.
Posted by: BattleofthePyramids at June 29, 2009 12:09 PM (ZHZ6S) 54
And finally, from a nth Generation Southerner, :
Both sides of my family are from Georgia and the Carolinas. No one in my family (as far as we know) owned any slaves. We do know that my great-great-grandfather had 7 other siblings, but he was the only one to survive the War. So, my family was almost wiped off the face of the Earth. Is that "punishment" enough? Posted by: Techie at June 29, 2009 12:12 PM (cxW4X) 55
Liberals like Sotomayor think you don't have to be very smart to be a cop or a fire fighter so it doesn't make much difference if you promote the ones with the low test scores. The firefighters’ lawyer was urging the judges not to treat her clients as unskilled workers. “This is a command position in a first-responder agency,” she said, not garbage collectors. The safety of the firefighters and the community is at stake, the lawyer said. Sotomayor interrupted Torre and made an uncharacteristic advocate-like statement. “Counsel, we are not suggesting unqualified people be hired – the city is not suggesting that, all right.” In her view, there is no practical harm to the community from putting low scoring applicants in charge. So she believes either that race trumps safety or that low test scores are irrelevant to performing competently as a fireman.
Posted by: Matt at June 29, 2009 12:14 PM (ecpMe) 56
poon would throw out the 14th Ammendment if it had the power to do so.
Posted by: Techie at June 29, 2009 12:15 PM (cxW4X) 57
There is still quite a gap between Right and Left when it comes to race issues. One side has firmly grasped the concept that discrimination on the basis of race is a bad thing in all circumstances. The other believes that discrimination is regrettable but necessary. The problem with this second view--the Left's view--is that the "necessary" justification never ends.
The real problem with the lefts view is that it has no basis in law. According to the Civil Rights Act It shall be an unlawful employment practice for an employer—
Posted by: flenser at June 29, 2009 12:15 PM (Ov8Fw) 58
Whoever transmits in interstate or foreign commerce [radio, TV, internet] any communication, with the intent to coerce, intimidate, harass, or cause substantial emotional distress to a person, using electronic means to support severe, repeated, and hostile behavior, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both. Attica! Attica! Attica! Posted by: Entropy at June 29, 2009 12:16 PM (m6c4H) 59
So, my family was almost wiped off the face of the Earth. Is that "punishment" enough?
Do you really want a lefty to answer that? Posted by: Rob Crawford at June 29, 2009 12:16 PM (ZJ/un) 60
O/T: Is he actually using caleeefournia as an example????? Is he actually talking about light bulbs? What the ones that when they break the EPA seals off your room?
Posted by: muffy at June 29, 2009 12:19 PM (zplc6) 61
And in other news that pretty much just adds to the point that we are so fucked that if this were sex, we would be experiencing one continuous, monumental orgasm - Congress considers a "pay plan" as part of socialist health care. Posted by: Barry the "More than just Social Intercourse" at June 29, 2009 12:22 PM (RkRxq) 62
AA as do most liberal policies exist at the pleasure of a strong economy (capitalism). Now is not the time when people want to hear about racisim when we have a black president, or quotas when we have double digit unemployment. What bho and most lib dems forget is that all politics is local, and when mr and mrs jon q public are sitting down for breakfast both looking for jobs they don't want to hear or read about qoutas or affirmative action becuse it becomes natural selection time - survival of the fittest, and yes that means the best expect to get the job and not loose it to some idiot who thinks there are 57 states.
Posted by: 12 Inch Middle Finger at June 29, 2009 12:22 PM (n2vBd) 63
anyone watching obama on cap and fraud?
he just used literally 10 consecutive stupid straw man comparisions in a row to justify the bill. 10! we have a choice between was the link between them Posted by: Anti-Harkonnen Freedom Fighter at June 29, 2009 12:22 PM (5r0Tz) 64
More analysis of the Honduras situation. Pretty much what we have been saying, but it is a good read. The struggle against chavismo has never been about left-right politics. It is about defending the independence of institutions that keep presidents from becoming dictators. This crisis clearly delineates the problem. In failing to come to the aid of checks and balances, Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Insulza expose their true colors
Posted by: momma at June 29, 2009 12:23 PM (penCf) 65
I'll be honest, if the American Public doesn't wake up to the straw-men and "false choices" and other misc. bullshit.............................it deserves whatever happens to it.
Posted by: Techie at June 29, 2009 12:24 PM (cxW4X) 66
"54 And finally, from a nth Generation Southerner, :
Both sides of my family are from Georgia and the Carolinas. No one in my family (as far as we know) owned any slaves. We do know that my great-great-grandfather had 7 other siblings, but he was the only one to survive the War. So, my family was almost wiped off the face of the Earth. Is that "punishment" enough?" You better check that claim very carefully. For years I thought I was a seventh generation American - with no slave owner ancestors - but found out two years ago that I'm a ninth generation American, and my original American ancestor was quite wealthy and owned several "negroes" as his will called them. This is in 1650's Maryland. Quite a shock. Posted by: Hucbald at June 29, 2009 12:25 PM (O9yAg) 67
Poon troll - So is it your position that you can be a racist scumbag as long as you are a Democrat? And as long as your racism promotes and aids Democrat voting blocs?
Posted by: Have Blue at June 29, 2009 12:28 PM (mV+es) 68
Ginsberg The white firefighters who scored high on New Haven’s promotional exams understandably attract this Court’s sympathy. But they had no vested right to promotion. Why is this moron on the court?Posted by: flenser at June 29, 2009 12:28 PM (Ov8Fw) 69
Wea re going to have to change light bulbs. Yeah that will do it. Maybe when oil was so cheap we should have been stockpiling it like the Chinese? Siad this out loud and people said "no, that's silly he doesn't like oil and he wouldnt' think to do that when we could just pass eh energy bill". No one sees the taxes coming, no one.
Posted by: muffy at June 29, 2009 12:28 PM (zplc6) 70
#63 - Thanks for going OT. A new cap and tax thread today would be great. I was wondering, since this passed, is Texas any closer to secceding? N.G., ya out there? Heard anything?
Posted by: teej at June 29, 2009 12:30 PM (QdUKm) 71
No one has noticed that the "white male" has become a minority.
Posted by: muffy at June 29, 2009 12:32 PM (zplc6) 72
But they had no vested right to promotion.
The sad thing is that IF the test had the opposite results and blacks were denied promotion because WHITES claimed discrimination she would be saying that the blacks did have a vested “right” to promotion.
Its all about “outcome”. Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2009 12:33 PM (5ynkO) 73
"70 #63 - Thanks for going OT. A new cap and tax thread today would be great. I was wondering, since this passed, is Texas any closer to secceding? N.G., ya out there? Heard anything?"
Well our economy is doing better than almost any other state right now, and people are starting off conversations with, "If Obama tries to make us pay to bail out California..." There's a lot of sentiment for, um, "a looser federation" here, and has been since the 70's and 80's. Posted by: Hucbald at June 29, 2009 12:34 PM (O9yAg) 74
68 - At that point my question would be; Then why administer a test in the first fucking place? The analogy is: Why the hell have elections in Venezuela, Honduras, Iran, etc. Makes no sense at all. And, btw, remember the Republican tr8tors. Posted by: Barry the Felatiator at June 29, 2009 12:34 PM (RkRxq) 75
#55 How far down must you dumb down the test so that at some point, same persons lack of intellegence kills people or seriously disfigures them for the rest of their lives. It could most likely be fellow firefighters. But who cares according to the Supreme Court. We must all be equal according to the libs.and must enforce strict quotas.
Posted by: mystry at June 29, 2009 12:37 PM (kmgIE) 76
The problem in this area of law, as in so many others, is that the actual statutory law as written by the legislature is in conflict with the judicial "interpetation" of that law. There is no mention of "disparate impact" in the Civil Rights Act, that's something the judges made up on their own. Posted by: flenser at June 29, 2009 12:38 PM (Ov8Fw) 77
#66
I mean, it's certainly possible. My paternal grandmother's brother (my great uncle) is big into genealogy. He does all the SCV and DAR projects and stuff. Huge Civil War buff. He did find mention once of a "negro boy named Elijah" once in a will that he found for an aunt dated 1843, but the next line mentions leaving money for Elijah's "compensation". But it was in cropshare, so we don't know if he was a slave getting left something in the will or a sharecropper getting a refund after the property owner died. And then the Army of the Potomac came and killed all her grandnephews/neices. It seems I come from a long line of dirt farmers and schoolteachers. Posted by: Techie at June 29, 2009 12:39 PM (cxW4X) 78
Damn I just feel stupid.
Here I was thinking if my house was on fire I'd want the best trained, most qualified, and most skilled firefighters possible to help me. Clearly this is stupid, and I should refuse help if the help doesn't come in the correct size/shape/color/gender/sexual preference/etc. If a handi-capable lesbian half-African half-Asian woman isn't the only person running the fire hose; then my house should be left to burn for social awareness. I was just foolishly thinking that firefighters should be capable of fighting a fire. Yeah, stupid I know. A wise Latina helped explain to me that they simply need to be the correct mix of people and colors and they needn't have any skill at their actual jobs. How dare I put the safety of myself, my family, my home and my possessions before the feelings of the unqualified minorities who wish to be highly promoted and incapable firefighters. Clearly I'm a racist for wanting to live through a fire instead of dying horrifically whilst incompetents allow me to die. So, in conclusion I'll be willing to die due to the incompetent hiring and promotion practices professed by Sotomayer, Ginsburg, and others (poon?); but first they have to willingly die in a fire, to show they also truly believe that this goal is worth dying in a fire for. That seems fair right? I'll agree as soon as all the proponents of this go DIAF. Posted by: Gekkobear at June 29, 2009 12:41 PM (X0NX1) 79
Oh, and lest anyone think that poon has a coherent thought in it's feeble little mind:
CNN Poll: 2/3rds think firefighters were discriminated against. WASHINGTON (CNN) — A new national poll suggests that nearly two-thirds of Americans think white firefighters in New Haven, Connecticut where discriminated against when the city tossed out the results of a promotion exam after too few minorities scored high enough on the test. Monday the Supreme Court, in a five to four vote, ruled in favor of the white firefighters. A CNN/Opinion Research Corporation national survey released Monday morning, as the Supreme Court handed down it's ruling, indicates that 65 percent of those questioned say the firefighters were victims of discrimination and should get promotions based on the test results, with 31 percent feeling that the city should a new test to make sure minority firefighters were not victims of discrimination. http://tinyurl.com/kr98mxYes, this is such a losing national position......................... Posted by: Techie at June 29, 2009 12:42 PM (cxW4X) Posted by: muffy at June 29, 2009 12:43 PM (zplc6) 81
Justice Ginsburg chose to read her dissent aloud this morning, something she does in cases she particularly feels have been wrongly decided.
We can pray that she reads a lot more cases aloud before she croaks. Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2009 12:44 PM (5ynkO) 82
You better check that claim very carefully. For years I thought I was a seventh generation American - with no slave owner ancestors - but found out two years ago that I'm a ninth generation American, and my original American ancestor was quite wealthy and owned several "negroes" as his will called them. This is in 1650's Maryland. I'm 4th/5th generation and most of my ancestors were dirt poor and trashy and also they flocked straight to the Midwest where slavery was never legal. Slavery, no. Now you want to pin child labor and/or selling babies on my family, well... err.... uhh... Posted by: Entropy at June 29, 2009 12:48 PM (m6c4H) 83
Since the SCOTUS has no say in who comes along to join the happy little group wonder what they are thinking when someone decides to leave and a new name is introduced?
Posted by: muffy at June 29, 2009 12:48 PM (zplc6) 84
Alex....thanks for the Ricci pic. My Monday is SO much better for it. Yum.
Posted by: lowfibass at June 29, 2009 12:49 PM (T1ZAZ) 85
Ginsberg also said that Sotomayor was wrong. Sotomayor did not take the Constituation into consideration according to Ginsberg. This statement from the most lib on the Court?
Posted by: mystry at June 29, 2009 12:50 PM (kmgIE) 86
OT Rasmussen Polls: Massachusetts: 26% Consider State’s Health Care Reform a Success Just 18% of U.S. voters now say Congress is doing a good or excellent job 50% Favor Obama Health Reform Plan, 45% Oppose It...Twenty-four percent (24%) strongly favor the plan, but 34% are strongly opposed. http://tinyurl.com/nes588Posted by: momma at June 29, 2009 12:55 PM (penCf) 87
It seems I come from a long line of dirt farmers and schoolteachers. Pregnant unwed maids and blacksmiths mostly. Some bureaucrats if you count the maid's bastard's supposed fathers. Even the wed women (the wives of the blacksmiths) were all listed as housemaids on immigration papers. Posted by: Entropy at June 29, 2009 12:55 PM (m6c4H) 88
My HS graduating class of some 25 years ago produced scores of prominent Black and Hispanic business owners, public servants, doctors etc. I see their names in the papers often, all of them successful and doing good work.
The next generation that came down the pipe, nothing. I can guarantee that whatever caused that, wasn't racism. Posted by: Dan F at June 29, 2009 12:56 PM (u5Jv6) Posted by: aubrey at June 29, 2009 12:56 PM (vJZ+j) 90
As long as some people are told they do not have to work, learn or try, they will be given the degree, job, power, we will have to have affirmative action in order to make things "fair". This affirmative action nonsense just tells certain classes of people they will be given things for nothing, setting up victims and deep,deep resentment.
Posted by: J at June 29, 2009 12:58 PM (Ty7DK) 91
Here I was thinking if my house was on fire I'd want the best trained, most qualified, and most skilled firefighters possible to help me.
Well, at least New Haven didn’t go as far the federal government in advertising for hiring park rangers form the national forests. They actually advertised for “unqualified” people in order to hire and promote minorities of the favored color.
Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2009 12:58 PM (5ynkO) 92
OMG I used the "Q" word.. quota. I won't get banned for using that world will I?
Posted by: mystry at June 29, 2009 01:02 PM (kmgIE) 93
Just ignore poon. He is our version of Tokyo Rose. "Give up now, it is hopeless, Republicans suck, you will lose". He doesn't even defend Obama or liberalism, he just wants to put down conservatism. His comments are a waste of electrons.
Posted by: chemjeff at June 29, 2009 01:03 PM (sqtL/) 94
O/T: Not that most of us don't feel for "Made Offs" victims but, when everyone was getting smaller yields on their investments and savings, why didn't they check to see why they were doing so well?
Posted by: muffy at June 29, 2009 01:04 PM (zplc6) 95
"Breaking: SCOTUS Rules In Favor of New Haven Firefighters"
Not exactly breaking if you're the 80th post in the second thread on the topic. Posted by: Additional Blond Agent at June 29, 2009 01:06 PM (PMGbu) 96
#94 Muffy it's simple. Most were libs, and they saw greed in their brains.
Posted by: mystry at June 29, 2009 01:07 PM (kmgIE) 97
The main branch of my family tree was credited for winning the Civil War. Without my Greats GDs the south would have won. Posted by: momma at June 29, 2009 01:07 PM (penCf) 98
94 O/T: Not that most of us don't feel for "Made Offs" victims but, when everyone was getting smaller yields on their investments and savings, why didn't they check to see why they were doing so well? - Two reasons I can think of. 1-The greed bug bit. 2-They forgot one of life's rules; If it seems too good to be true....
Posted by: teej at June 29, 2009 01:08 PM (lG7ds) 99
#95, I posed it cause of some of the comments in the thread.
Posted by: muffy at June 29, 2009 01:08 PM (zplc6) 100
Not that most of us don't feel for "Made Offs" victims but, when everyone was getting smaller yields on their investments and savings, why didn't they check to see why they were doing so well?
Same reason people voted for Obama. Just sayin'. Posted by: momma at June 29, 2009 01:09 PM (penCf) 101
Without my Greats GDs the south would have won. - Hi momma, I gotta wonder, should we be mad at your grand dads? I mean, I hate slavery but seeing as that was just the "excuse" for the war and not what it was really about....
Posted by: teej at June 29, 2009 01:10 PM (lG7ds) 102
Sorry Muffy, I misread the post..
Posted by: mystry at June 29, 2009 01:11 PM (kmgIE) 103
Now, we just need a Wise Latine (TM) to get the thread back on topic.
Posted by: Techie at June 29, 2009 01:11 PM (cxW4X) 104
Where the heck has the sockpuppet champ been today? He has a goldmine of different tags for this subject.
Posted by: momma de Blog at June 29, 2009 01:11 PM (penCf) Posted by: momma de Blog at June 29, 2009 01:12 PM (penCf) 106
Yes, Made-Off’s victims were “cheated” and they wanted more than 150 years in the sentence. I remember one of those “high profile” victims being interviewed on Fox. He said “you would have to be foolish to pass up the high returns he was offering”.
That is the well publicized “secret” of all con men. The offer of an “easy” profit or “free” money is always at the heart of any con job. A sucker always deserves to be parted from their money. Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2009 01:18 PM (5ynkO) Posted by: muffy at June 29, 2009 01:19 PM (zplc6) 108
The obvious question: how can Obama assert that Wise-ass Latina is qualified to be a Supreme, when her rulings are overturned by the Supremes 2 to 1? Too bad the don't have people who get paid to ask such questions on behalf of the public... oh wait, we do have them, it's just that they don't earn their pay! Posted by: sherlock at June 29, 2009 01:21 PM (L4jPh) 109
Race doesn't make you stupid but racism sure does .
Staking out a philosophical position that pretty much guarantees your party will never win another national election ain't smart, aubrey. So you are saying that in order to win national elections, the republicans need to become race hustlers like the democrats? Posted by: Lemmiwinks at June 29, 2009 01:21 PM (IqfKc) 110
Is SIPC a government agency like the FDIC only for your investments?
Posted by: muffy at June 29, 2009 01:24 PM (zplc6) 111
O/T: Just saw Mr. K's comments about treason. So all those scientists who disagree about climate change are treasonous?
Posted by: muffy at June 29, 2009 01:25 PM (zplc6) Posted by: muffy at June 29, 2009 01:28 PM (zplc6) Posted by: flenser at June 29, 2009 01:30 PM (Ov8Fw) 114
I wish there was some way for readers toknow when someone posts to an older thread. This way, if something comes up and there is already a thread on the topic, you don't have invade a thread on a new topic with your obsviously O/T news and instead you could post the new "news" on the existing thread and everyone who was interested would know to go there to read the new "news".
Posted by: muffy at June 29, 2009 01:30 PM (zplc6) 115
So you are saying that in order to win national elections, the republicans need to become race hustlers like the democrats?
Yep. Posted by: poon at June 29, 2009 01:30 PM (i31Zq) 116
ahem.....................2/3rds
Posted by: Techie at June 29, 2009 01:35 PM (cxW4X) 117
Ok, wait, I've got a question. I haven't been following this too closely, what with some folks threatening to blow up Hawaii or get Pakistani nukes, so I missed a point.
What I gather is there was a test, and whites and latinos generally scored higher, giving them access to raises because they make the cut. Somebody sued because black people weren't getting raises, because they didn't score as high. And now somebody's protesting that the black people should have separate standards, even though technically doing so would potentially mean that they are not as capable of doing the same job that white and latino firemen are, based upon the test, and that we were rewarding them money in the process of making us less safe. Is that right? Posted by: Ack at June 29, 2009 01:36 PM (ZNhcg) Posted by: muffy at June 29, 2009 01:36 PM (zplc6) 119
Rejection of the soft bigotry of low expectations exhibited, temporarily settled. Hard bigot supporting Unconstitutional measures soon to be seated anyway.
Only in post-racial America does this compute. Nation of laws still usurped by (wo)men, four of whom still sit the SCOTUS. Posted by: AnonymousDrivel at June 29, 2009 01:36 PM (rZ235) 120
Poon troll - So is it your position that you can be a racist scumbag as long as you are a Democrat?
I thought that that was a given. Posted by: pale penis person at June 29, 2009 01:36 PM (PD1tk) 121
Poon troll - So is it your position that you can be a racist scumbag as long as you are a Democrat?
No, it's my position that the Republican party has a death wish. Posted by: poon at June 29, 2009 01:39 PM (i31Zq) 122
No, it's my position that the Republican party has a death wish. Because it does not practice racial politics to the same extent as the Democrats. Yes, we got it the first time. But have you considered the implications of what you're saying? And do you really want them to come to pass? Posted by: flenser at June 29, 2009 01:41 PM (Ov8Fw) 123
Ignore poon; he's another liberal who thinks 2 elections by his side (based largely on false impressions of the Iraq War and Bush's handling of the economy) means he's an "expert" at telling Republicans how the only way to win is being just like Democrats. If this isn't in the Art of War, it should be: Never take advice from your enemies on how to defeat them. Posted by: lurker at June 29, 2009 01:48 PM (AqLUZ) 124
I've never understood what the Democrat party expects to gain by inciting a genuine race war. Maybe just a return to its roots.
Posted by: pale penis person at June 29, 2009 01:48 PM (PD1tk) 125
I've never understood what the Democrat party expects to gain by inciting a genuine race war. Maybe just a return to its roots.
That's precisely it. The Democrat party has never forgiven Republicans for ending slavery, so they're intent on reinstating it. They're doing it by degrees by regulation and taxation, but the end is the same. Posted by: Rob Crawford at June 29, 2009 01:51 PM (ZJ/un) 126
Speaking of court cases. From “overlawyered.com”
Chambliss blocks regulatory pick over animal lawsuits”
The new Czar nominee thinks animals have a “right” to sue humans. Posted by: Vic at June 29, 2009 01:56 PM (5ynkO) 127
They're doing it by degrees by regulation and taxation, but the end is the same. But this time it will be equal opportunity slavery for everyone! Rainbow slavery! Yay! Posted by: Sort-of-Mad Max at June 29, 2009 01:56 PM (ERJIu) 128
Democrats will forever wave the bloody shirt of racism because they have Hollywood propaganda feeding us nonsense such as that racism is somehow one of the worst things anyone can do ever and if you do you're Hitler. We have laws to prevent discrimination. Move on Dems from your failed social engineering. Please people this is exactly why conservatives need to self-consciously build a movie and TV industry of our own, to fight this stupid propaganda. Not just the Christian film/TV guys and the Pajamas media group and ION TV; we need a full court press of major studios, founded in a conservative state, committed to the cause. Think about the Golden Age of Hollywood; the movies were made under the Hays Code and under the threat that public funds would not be expended to support far left wing causes. The best movies ever made came from that era. Coincidence? I think not. The codes and restrictions forced out films for everyone, not just the ever shrinking Hollywood audience that only occasionally makes a brainless blockbuster a hit. Great, heroic, America-proud, well acted films. Sound the drumbeats, people; it's time to win back the airwaves (and not just talk radio and Fox). Posted by: lurker at June 29, 2009 02:00 PM (AqLUZ) 129
...telling Republicans how the only way to win is to start being honest again.
The "conservatives" have turned right-wing American politics into a religion. What a shame. Posted by: poon at June 29, 2009 02:01 PM (i31Zq) 130
68
Ginsberg The white firefighters who scored high on New Haven’s promotional exams understandably attract this Court’s sympathy. But they had no vested right to promotion. Why is this moron on the court?
Well, I can think of two reasons... Listen, Judy... if the white guys "had no vested right to promotion," then neither did the other guys. If they didn't pass the test, they didn't pass the test. Study harder next time. As my Mom says, "tough shit." Posted by: CMS2004 at June 29, 2009 02:04 PM (Q0dlN) 131
The "conservatives" have turned right-wing American politics into a religion.
I laughed out loud. Posted by: Officer Paddy O'Irony at June 29, 2009 02:12 PM (PD1tk) 132
BTW, I'm becoming more and more convince that the poon is some kind of Turing test. An artificial unintelligence, if you will.
Posted by: toby928 at June 29, 2009 02:14 PM (PD1tk) 133
Yeah, poon seems to generate semi-random strings of words with no relationship to what its allegedly commenting on. Mind you, that's standard troll behavior.
Posted by: flenser at June 29, 2009 02:24 PM (Ov8Fw) 134
"121
No, it's my position that the Republican party has a death wish." @poontang Jesus fu¢king Christ, talk about projection. Posted by: Hucbald at June 29, 2009 02:27 PM (O9yAg) 135
The Left thrives on hatred. It generates class envy; promotes identitiy politics; pits gender aghainst gender. It divides everyone and everything. It pits generation against generation, religion against religion, culture against culture. Because it has nothing to offer except the usual bromides. What problems have the Left solved in the past 50 years? Posted by: Thomas Jackson at June 29, 2009 02:35 PM (B8gqF) 136
Some murderers don't get that kind of jail time. Where are the
priorities of this country? Maybe that should be the discussion we are
having? Is someone's savings more important than someone's life?
Posted by: ??????? at June 29, 2009 02:41 PM (zplc6) 137
What problems have the Left solved in the past 50 years? They haven't solved any problems, they've only created new ones. All of their solutions lead to bigger problems, then they promise to solve those and in doing so, create more problems. Look at this whole healthcare deal. Why do we (supposedly) need gov't healthcare? Where did this all begin? Look at any problem we have in society today and I'll bet you can trace its roots back to some liberal idea set in motion years ago. Posted by: estee at June 29, 2009 02:51 PM (xlYqZ) 138
lol. Again, boys, remember: Never take advice from your enemies on how to defeat them. Liberals are terrified that conservatives will actually break through their Maginot Media Line. They know they can't win without air support, so Tokyo Rose-esque propaganda ("Give up and join us, you can't win!") is their only hope. Do not despair; it is the enemy of victory, and it is all liberals sell. Posted by: lurker at June 29, 2009 02:58 PM (AqLUZ) 139
The Statue of Liberty ist kaput!
Posted by: MSM at June 29, 2009 03:05 PM (PD1tk) 140
The most repellent idea put forward by Ginsberg was that the race firefighting leadership ought to "match" the constituency served. As if a white, black , hispanic, etc firefighter should not be given access to a leadership role if he is employed in a neighborhood with a population mainly of a different race than his own. The jaw-dropping racism of such an argument! It's hard to believe anyone would argue that in the present day.
Posted by: SarahW at June 29, 2009 03:08 PM (r/1UT) 141
It's hard to believe anyone would argue that in the present day.
Why? Haven't you been paying attention to the left? They've been making the same arguments as were made in defense of Jim Crow, but now you're "racist" if you don't believe in racial segregation. Posted by: Rob Crawford at June 29, 2009 03:15 PM (ZJ/un) 142
the "victims" who prefer to be called "survivors" are touting the judge's comments that the betrayal and fraud were the worst things. wonder if old denny is setting the stage for trials not only on WS but in other venue, like say .gov
Posted by: Thomas Paine at June 29, 2009 03:17 PM (zplc6) 143
"The investors who sunk money into Madoff's funds were not choir
boys/girls either. The rates of return were too good to be true. But,
his clients were not interested in knowing how his "fund" worked. They
were interested only in the return. As Warren Buffett said, I never
invest money in things that I do not understand. None of these
investors understood what he was doing. He preyed on his own
ethnic/religious group and they all fell for it presumably because they
shared that common background. Still, he got what he deserved. Look at
it this way, because of his actions, two people comitted suicide. He is
responsible for those deaths and I suspect the Judge factored that into
the sentence as well. Madoff was a modern day bank robber who used
technology and other people's greed as his weapon. Dillinger used a gun."
Posted by: dreyfus at June 29, 2009 03:22 PM (zplc6) 144
I like the part where Ginsburg suggests that New Haven should have just violated their contract with the firefighter's union by using a selection method other than the one prescribed in that contract.
Posted by: Pablo at June 29, 2009 11:38 AM Exactly. And this decision isn't about whether the test was fair or not. It's about the reason the city gave for throwing out the results. They were afraid of law suits. And that has nothing to do with Title VII. Posted by: Deanna at June 29, 2009 04:35 PM (bg/3n) 145
One thing is clear, that the ruling by Judge Sotomayor was based on the precedent of the Second Circuit. ... The Supreme Court clearly had a new interpretation of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act," Gibbs said.
Can he say this crap with a straight face? Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 29, 2009 04:43 PM (1Jaio) 146
Can he say this crap with a straight face?
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