Obama's Spending Starting to Become a Political Problem for Democrats

A big post from Instapundit with some hopeful signs the American public's Time of Madness is passing.

Including this from Rasumussen:

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey shows that 40% would vote for their district’s Democratic congressional candidate while 40% would choose the Republican.
Support for Democrats is up two points from last week, while support for the GOP is up three points. Support for the GOP is just one point below its highest level found over the past year. Last week’s results for the Democrats tied the lowest level of support for the party during the same period.
Voters not affiliated with either party now favor Republicans by a 38% to 21% margin.

That last number seems huge -- and it is pretty big -- but it's less impressive when you consider many conservative-leaning voters became nominal independents when they got sick of the GOP. It is not a surprise then that many of these independents -- lost to the GOP as far as genuine party identification -- still lean our way.

But still a good sign: The predictions of a Permanent Democratic Majority were predicated upon those ex-GOPers staying ex-GOPers and becoming Democrats, or at least voting that way. (Well, the Permanent Democratic Majority is also predicated upon huge demographic shifts, the country becoming less white European and more Hispanic, but that is still a little bit away.)

More and more Democrats are ready to vote against Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s climate change bill, according to a congressional committee chairman who opposes his leader.
The House Agriculture Committee Chairman Collin Peterson (D-Minn.) said Wednesday that he’s at an impasse with the lead sponsor of a climate change bill strongly backed by Pelosi (D-Calif.), and that his list of Democratic members who would join him in voting against the measure is growing rather than shrinking. …
Peterson has warned that the bill put together by Waxman and Energy and Environment subcommittee Chairman Edward Markey (D-Mass.) will fail if agriculture-related provisions aren’t altered, and he’s said he has as many as 45 votes on his side. That number of Democratic defections would certainly doom the prospects of passing the bill in the House.
And while the Agriculture chairman said he’s working to resolve those differences and not intentionally trying to torpedo the legislation, he noted that skepticism toward the bill is growing, not shrinking.
“I’m just estimating the number of votes that will be against this,” Peterson said. “I suspect that the list has grown as more members have gotten a chance to look at this. I mean, my list has grown.”

Bluffing? Maybe not. The Democratic Congress will be loathe to rebuke Obama and deal him a serious political loss, but when the livelihoods of voting constituents are on the line, all bets are off.

And that's just the agricultural bloc. Energy producing districts and states are going to have their own objections.

If climate-change legislation passes Congress in its current form, Lion Oil Co., an El Dorado refinery, will have to shutter operations within a year and lay off 1,200 workers, a company executive told a congressional panel Tuesday.
Passage of the bill “will make our survival impossible,” Steve Cousins, vice president of refining, testified before the House Energy and Commerce Subcommittee on Energy and the Environment.

I think much of the (declining) pubic support for "green" initiatives and carbon reduction is gestural. A gesture, something people feel good saying, something people think they're supposed to say. They "support" it, sort of, because, well, that's what Good Civic-Minded People Who Love Nature do, don't they?

But I don't believe their "support" is very deep or well-considered. And I don't think they're willing to suffer much economic pain (and by "much" economic pain, I mean "any" economic pain) in pursuit of this unicorn-friendly agenda.

The other thing I think is that the public doesn't mind supporting certain policies so long as the parties championing them treat them as mostly gestural in nature. I have written before that I think the a good chunk of the pro-life sentiment in the public is gestural rather than serious. If 50% now call themselves pro-life, I'd guess 10% of those folks would peel off if the Republican Party seemed intent on, and capable of, making dramatic changes in the law to outlaw abortion.

I think the same thing is true of this climate-change applesauce. The Democrats played a cynical but effective game in years past -- they postured as environmental champions and criticized the GOP relentlessly for killing the trees, but when push came to shove, they voted, for example, almost unanimously against serious carbon control in a test vote taken under President Clinton.

They profited politically by doing nothing but carp and posture. It worked for them. Which is why I'm surprised, and aghast, at the idea that they're not genuinely, seriously pushing real carbon control measures that will demolish the country.

I may be a conservative partisan but I can't imagine I'm very far away from the political center on this point. I have to think that anyone involved in real business (and therefore real reality itself) is a bit shocked to find the Democrats rushing headlong to actually fulfill their campaign promises to "skyrocket" the cost of electricity and "bankrupt" coal producers, previously thought to be safely insincere and innocuously cynical.

People are willing to go along with a joke only as long as it remains a joke.

The Difference Between Conservatives and the Squishy, Dopey Uninformed "Independents:" Most independents are independents due to lack of interest and lack of information. Some independents are a lot more engaged with the issues, and are independent because they don't fit comfortably into either party. Real libertarians, for example. (As opposed to fake-libertarian liberals.)

But independents-due-to-ignorance support pretty much everything. They want lower taxes and higher spending, and deficit reduction too. They want the greatest amount of national economic output and draconian limitations on energy production and usage.

They can be on both sides of every coin because, mostly, they're disengaged from politics and policy and simply haven't spent much time thinking about these issues.

On pretty much every issue, their support of liberal policies is overstated -- because when push comes to shove, when they're actually at long last forced to examine these policies (or suffer the consequences of them later), when they actually have skin in the game, they find out the liberal policies, which sound nice and good and the sort of thing a nice person should support, actually hurt them and their families.

I don't know if Waxman-Markey can be stopped. I know it won't persist. Because when these squishy, dopey independents-by-ignorance start noticing electricity prices have doubled and their employers are closing shop, then they start to think about policy.

A conservative, as they say, is just a liberal who's been mugged by reality. Dopey disengaged independents probably won't become conservatives, but they will run from liberal policies one they've been mugged by reality.

Posted by: Ace at 02:06 PM

Comments

1 CAN EVERYBODY HEAR ME? THOSE PRINTING PRESSES ARE LOUD!!

I WON!!

Posted by: B.H. Obama at June 11, 2009 02:10 PM (5aa4z)

2 Eat the rich.
/s

Posted by: Y-not at June 11, 2009 02:11 PM (sey23)

3 The clean guy won!!

Posted by: Joe Biden at June 11, 2009 02:11 PM (yUiO3)

4 I think much of the (declining) pubic support for "green" initiatives and carbon reduction is gestural.

Does this mean that the Dems are becoming impotent, need Viagra stimulus?

Posted by: the 17 Uighers at June 11, 2009 02:14 PM (5r0Tz)

5 kimchi, kimchi, it is good for you and me.
kimchi, kimchi, it is good for you and me.
kimchi, kimchi, it is good for you and me.
kimchi, kimchi, it is good for you and me.

Posted by: Tom in Korea at June 11, 2009 02:16 PM (9H4sW)

6 I can't help but wonder what the GOP's numbers would be if they had a friggin' backbone in standing up & speaking out about the total insanity that has engulfed this administration.

Posted by: Twinks at June 11, 2009 02:16 PM (V+x9W)

HotAir linked a Gallup pole saying 39% of republicans and conservative independants don't have a favorable view of the GOP.

Meanwhile like 7% of liberals have a negative view of their party.

Posted by: Entropy at June 11, 2009 02:16 PM (m6c4H)

8 The members of the Democratic party act as a means of hiding the hard leftists within them. This is the real, unspoken purpose of the party. Want to know who these hard leftists are? Look for the people who enthusiastically support legislation that will bankrupt us.

Posted by: joncelli at June 11, 2009 02:20 PM (RD7QR)

9 And I don't think they're willing to suffer much economic pain (and by "much" economic pain, I mean "any" economic pain) in pursuit of this unicorn-friendly agenda.

If Al Gore won't, why should I?

Posted by: nickless at June 11, 2009 02:20 PM (MMC8r)

10
Holy Shit! If this trend keeps up I'll have to eat my hat. I've been saying for months that the GOP keeping mum is a bad strategy. Was I wrong?

Posted by: Unicles at June 11, 2009 02:20 PM (42h7G)

The other thing I think is that the public doesn't mind supporting certain policies so long as the parties championing them treat them as mostly gestural in nature.

I don't know, Ace. Think of all the wetlands legislation that has annoyed people for years. There's all sorts of stuff that has cost real money for a long time. Standards for cars, etc. etc.

I think it's 1) the very very large amount of money we're talking about, 2) the timing of doing this during a recession and 3) the fact that the blame will rest completely on the Democrats. Can't claim it was bipartisan because...they won.

On the non-political front--not that there should be anything but politics regarding a scientific matter--I think skepticism re global warming is growing.

Posted by: Mama AJ at June 11, 2009 02:21 PM (X6Zdh)

12 Don't know if anyone posted this from the Onion but I just got it in an email: "Obama Drastically Scales Back Goals For America After Visiting Dennys"

Posted by: muffy at June 11, 2009 02:21 PM (zplc6)

13 Is it evil to wish Obama shuts down the coal industry so those voters in certain states (Pennsylvania) get to reap their richly deserved harvest of unemployment, dying towns, etc.?

Curious.

Posted by: Dave at June 11, 2009 02:21 PM (Xm1aB)

HotAir linked a Gallup pole saying 39% of republicans and conservative independants don't have a favorable view of the GOP.

Saw that. But I think that a lot of folks who were 'meh' in '08 will come out in bunches come '10.

The question won't be if the House Republicans can take some seats back. It will be if they can take control of the House. And considering that a not-too-bad side effect of these past two election cycles has been a clearing of some GOP dead wood, I'm pretty sanguine about things, as long as too much damage isn't done before then.

Posted by: Lee at June 11, 2009 02:23 PM (TxTIh)

15
Hell no, I wasn't wrong!

Republicans have been running scared since Katrina and really turned into pussies in the summer of '08 when Obama was elevated to god-Democrat-black jesus.

Despite the Republicans doing nothing to help their own cause, Obama and the Democrats are losing popularity.

Posted by: Unicles at June 11, 2009 02:23 PM (42h7G)

16 @ Tom in Korea,

Kimchi is disgusting. Running in formation behind KATUSAs who sweated that shit out of every pore was like being maced.

I had a drinkee girl plop on my lap in Tongduchon and say "Hello, G.I." It was like being punched in the face with a giant fist made out of hot, wet garbage.

My ex-chef always threatened to make some kimchi and I told him "I'll be using your pink slip for a placemat, motherfucker."

Turns out I had to let him go when we closed the place, so maybe he should have gone ahead and made it. Pussy.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 11, 2009 02:23 PM (xGIqT)

Dem behavior explained numerically:

2010.

Posted by: Bat Chain Puller at June 11, 2009 02:28 PM (SCcgT)

18 Yeah, a greenie wet-dream law presided over by Henry "Oh, I don't READ 'em" Waxman?

What's not to like?

Posted by: mojo at June 11, 2009 02:28 PM (g1cNf)

Empire of Jeff at June 11, 2009 02:23 PM (xGIqT)

You make a good joke round eye...

Seriously your comments are always good read. I remember when you wrote about your restaurant - hope your doing better these days.

Posted by: Roadking at June 11, 2009 02:30 PM (mvJmU)

20
Howie Carr just mentioned Playboy's (obviously a 'rightwing' publication) piece "Top 10 Republican Women I'd Like To Rape."

Can you believe this shit? I'm not getting angry. I'm fucking livid.

Posted by: Unicles at June 11, 2009 02:30 PM (42h7G)

21 The same candy-asses that voted for Obama are now changing their minds again.

Spineless worms looking for the handouts.

Posted by: sifty at June 11, 2009 02:32 PM (+2fWA)

Sometimes, at my weaker moments, I stop trying to stifle the tears of joy and just bask in this post-racial and sensitive new world.

I was skeptical that the world could be healed with words, just words. And, to think, the oceans have receded and the Earth has healed itself. Terrorists understand we will turn our soft and fleshy neckmeat to their swords in a display of friendship.

I didn't think God would have such big ears and a chupacabra wife, but here we are.

Posted by: gator at June 11, 2009 02:33 PM (yUiO3)

The question won't be if the House Republicans can take some seats back. It will be if they can take control of the House.

I think even if they don't have control officially, there are enough middle of the road Democrats who are going to keep pushing back on Obama's plans.

Posted by: Mama AJ at June 11, 2009 02:33 PM (X6Zdh)

24 Kimchi is one of those things that will either make you puke your brains out or become instantly addicted to. Sadly out here in the sticks it's hard to get the right ingredients to make good kimchi.

Posted by: John Galt at June 11, 2009 02:34 PM (SDkq3)

I think the tide is shifting. As citizens it's our duty (and obviously in our interest) to keep the pressure on.

Start using social media to spread stories of what the ballooning deficit is going to do to us down the road.

Harp on tax increases and inflation. Make sure everyone knows that "the rich" aren't going to be the only ones getting the shaft. Everyone is getting it.

Keep mentioning how energy prices will triple if cap and trade passes.

Remember ... Obama sold all of his programs on the premise that he was going to screw the other guy to pass benefits on to his voters.

That's what this whole house of cards is built on - the idea of getting something for nothing (or from someone else ... like a greedy rich jerk)

Once we yank that lie out from under Obama and hold it up to the light, the game is over.

Posted by: Warden at June 11, 2009 02:35 PM (ozd5G)

26 @Empire of Jeff

I can't imagine what'd it'd be like to run in formation with folks after eathing such a meal. I haven't noticed any smell all that bad. Perhaps I've just gotten used to it and don't notice it, but I don't recall ever noticing it at all. Also, I must disagree as kimchi is delicious, and it will clear out your sinuses quite well. Tastes good and good for you!

Posted by: Tom in Korea at June 11, 2009 02:35 PM (9H4sW)

27 My Congressman is Gene Green (D). He represents a large portion of Houston and he supports cap and trade. We had a chance to ask him questions today about different topics and I asked him whether he could guarantee that electricity, gasoline, food, other petroleum based prices wouldn't rise dramtically is this bill passes. His answer was he couldn't guaranatee anything, but the last time they tried to solve the pollution problem prices didn't rise as much as expected. They don't care about raising prices, they just want to control everything in our lives. He named it one of the top 3 problems we have here in the US.

Posted by: Poker player at June 11, 2009 02:37 PM (eu7/X)

They profited politically by doing nothing but carp and posture. It worked for them. Which is why I'm surprised, and aghast, at the idea that they're not genuinely, seriously pushing real carbon control measures that will demolish the country.

Typo?

Posted by: Wm T Sherman at June 11, 2009 02:37 PM (w41GQ)

29 @Roadking,

Doing a hell of a lot better now that I'm not spending $8k/month to keep the place afloat (it was a big joint). Trading forex and persuing real estate opportunities these days, which is great because of the loose schedule. Taking some accounting classes in the fall to sharpen my analytical skills. Drinking lots of Scotch.

Taking our fourth trip to the beach since the end of school, starting next week and enjoying getting to know my kids, two of which I had not seen much of at all, since they were born right as we were building out the restaurant.

Jeff's funemployed, Hoss!

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 11, 2009 02:37 PM (xGIqT)

30 The question won't be if the House Republicans can take some seats back. It will be if they can take control of the House.

While I completely agree with this sentiment, I hope it is not just wishful thinking. Do people here know of actual Republican boots on the ground recruiting quality candidates? Remember, Michael Steele is in charge of the RNC, not exactly a cause for hope (IMO).

Posted by: chemjeff at June 11, 2009 02:39 PM (kP58F)

31 Excellent post Ace.

I may just tweak some of the last bits and send it off as a friendly "heads up" to my congress creature. Hope you don't mind.

It seems that my congress creature views the residents of this district more as imbecilic subjects than voting constituents. I think that a lot of Democrat congressmen are gambling that Obama's popularity will be enough for them to win re-election despite supporting Pelosi's diktats from D.C. against the wishes and best interests of their districts.

I should like for my congress critter to reassess that risk. Republicans aren't the only ones who need to worry about not alienating / pissing off the center you know.

Posted by: Deety at June 11, 2009 02:39 PM (aVzyR)

32 I didn't think God would have such big ears and a chupacabra wife, but here we are.

That was funny as hell, gator!

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 11, 2009 02:39 PM (xGIqT)

Kimchi is ... cabbage, eh? Steamed cabbage or something?

I like cabbage. Never had kimchi.

Posted by: Entropy at June 11, 2009 02:41 PM (m6c4H)

Plus it has the added benefit of:

A) Not being dog.

B) Not having tentacles or eye-stalks.

Posted by: Entropy at June 11, 2009 02:42 PM (m6c4H)

35 The Playboy Hate-Fuck article about conservative women was mean spirited, and the puke scribbler needs to leave Mary Katherine Ham the fuck alone or suffer a penis scrubbing with a wire brush.

Posted by: Fish at June 11, 2009 02:43 PM (FnA4R)

36 Kimchi is disgusting. I also remember being next to a KATUSA stinking of it, or smelling the sh*t as they cooked it in the day room on our floor of the barracks. Bad memories.

(Camp Greaves, 93-94)

Posted by: HHKirst at June 11, 2009 02:43 PM (DUwm4)

37 Unicles
I've been saying for months that the GOP keeping mum is a bad strategy. Was I wrong?

I've been saying for months that the 180 degrees of separation between the two parties is such that the (R)'s need to vote in bloc against everything proposed by these socialists. The people will figure it out eventually. But not if they get confused by compromise.

Posted by: El-Amin Chirag-ud-Din at June 11, 2009 02:43 PM (8XI4A)

21 The same candy-asses that voted for Obama are now changing their minds again.

Spineless worms looking for the handouts.

Perhaps the new t-shirt should have the ubiquitous Obama picture with "CHANGE your mind?" written on it.

Posted by: Fallen Sparrow at June 11, 2009 02:44 PM (SOf9N)

Empire of Jeff at June 11, 2009 02:37 PM (xGIqT)

Glad to hear your doing well. You have probaly heard plenty of times how tough that business is and like you I know first hand. I sold my interest early before the shit hit but none the less.

Enjoy your family and keep the comments coming......

Posted by: Roadking at June 11, 2009 02:44 PM (mvJmU)

40 Kimchi is awful but I likes it.

Posted by: Eleven at June 11, 2009 02:44 PM (7DB+a)

Posted by: HHKirst at June 11, 2009 02:46 PM (DUwm4)

42 Oh, and Tom:

You have definitely gone native, bud.

How to make your yard smell like Korea:

1. Turn the sprinkler on in your yard and leave it running for several days until water almost covers the tops of the blades of grass.

2. Invite 60 friends over to each take a shit in your now soupy yard. Have them bring their pets and livestock to shit in your yard as well.

3. Surround your yard with heatlamps and turn those motherhumpers on full blast. Add more water and shit as necessary, so your "rice paddy" doesn't dry out.

4. Light up a pile of charcoal in your driveway the size of a school bus and arrange fans to direct the fumes towards you.

5. Enjoy the authentic smells of Korea!

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 11, 2009 02:46 PM (xGIqT)

43 This is, in fine, why I blame people like Megan McArdle* more than I do the far-left idiots. You can't blame leftists who vote for a fellow leftist. You can blame purported libertarian/conservatives for voting for him. Obama was never anything but a doctrinaire far-left liberal and never gave any inclination that he'd do anything other than govern from the left. And people like Megan and Colin voted for him anyway. Why? I don't know, honestly. In Colin Powell's case, maybe it was race-based. In McArdle's case, it was probably a mix of hipster self-delusion and a bit of schoolgirl-crush. Whatever the reason, though, the fence-sitters saddled us all with this statist fool, and it is to their door that I direct my anger.

*I love ya, Megan, but Holy God, woman! How could you vote for that statist asshole and still claim any kind of libertarian cred?

Posted by: Monty at June 11, 2009 02:46 PM (/0a60)

44 Uhm, by last bit, I meant the part that ended, "People are willing to go along with a joke only as long as it remains a joke".

Posted by: Deety at June 11, 2009 02:46 PM (aVzyR)

45 The GOP needs to take the gloves off, and keep hitting the other side with 1 word: Socialism. That's what they want, it's what they are doing. Point to HC reform, take over of business, desire to limit executive pay, etc etc etc.

I've spoken with way too many of the squshy types in the last few months who say something like "they know socialism doesn't work, so that's not what they are doing, come on!".

Aggression here would be rewarded. As others in the thread said, show some damn spine!

Posted by: Doc at June 11, 2009 02:47 PM (AghBu)

Absolutely, Empire, keep those military stories coming. I love hearing, and never tire of reading, about the best part of America.

All you good people out there, thanks for the service to this country.

Posted by: gator at June 11, 2009 02:48 PM (yUiO3)

47 33

Kimchi is ... cabbage, eh? Steamed cabbage or something?

I like cabbage. Never had kimchi./i /i

It is a cabbage like lettuce soaked in vast amounts of garlic and hot sauce. Taste good but don't breath or sweat around any one.

Posted by: scif at June 11, 2009 02:49 PM (UqZvB)

@7 I am encouraged by the Gallup survey.I worry more about a party of true believers than a party of skeptics. Skepticism is healthy, blind faith is dangerous.

Posted by: robtron at June 11, 2009 02:50 PM (gue+Q)

49 ITS A TRAP!!!!

Seriously, I am in the know on a major refinery in texas.

This refinery cracks a good portion of this nations gasoline and jet fuels.

IF this bullshit somehow passes, expect this refinery to shut down a MAJOR chunk of its operations, convert it to a terminal to except gasoline that is refined in Mexico.

So, gas prices will go up, people will lose their jobs in texas, and in pollution will be worse because their are NO environmental regulations or air quality boards in Mexico to deal with.

Posted by: Admiral Ackbar at June 11, 2009 02:50 PM (ngD76)

50 The land smells of burning shit and charcoal? I somehow have missed that. Maybe the smell recently changed right before I arrived here or something.

Posted by: Tom in Korea at June 11, 2009 02:50 PM (9H4sW)

51 Tom and Empire,

I don't know which is worse nouc` mam (fish sauce in 'Nam) or kimchee, but boy howdy they sure taste good.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 11, 2009 02:51 PM (bT3Lv)

52 The GOP needs to take the gloves off, and keep hitting the other side with 1 word: Socialism.

Problem with that is, "independents-due-to-ignorance" hear the word Socialism and instead of setting off alarm bells it merely engenders a blank stare, quizzical head tilt and a shrug of the shoulders.

Posted by: Deety at June 11, 2009 02:53 PM (aVzyR)

Enjoy the authentic smells of Korea!

Shouldn't I grind up some kitty kats before firing up the charcoal?

Posted by: gator at June 11, 2009 02:54 PM (yUiO3)

54 I'm not sure about a Republican comeback. The numbers are against them. They might pick up a few seats in the Senate in 2010, and maybe 5 or 10 in the House, but the Democratic ground game is better and the Republicans are inept at talent-spotting and support. Also, while I thought Steele would be good, he's actually been disappointing. Maybe he'll surprise us but I'm not seeing it.

The Republicans won't be back in control until 2012 -- and that's plenty of time for them to screw it up.

Posted by: joncelli at June 11, 2009 02:54 PM (RD7QR)

55 52... yeah, that's what my little anecdote was getting it. Education on what socialism means is necessary. otherwise, the squishy attitude will be "all that stuff thats happening, well it's not affecting me, so who cares?"

Posted by: Doc at June 11, 2009 02:56 PM (AghBu)

56 My brother is married to a Korean lady. I was visting my bud one day, and she offered me some of that kimchi stuff. Absolutely gross! Why would I eat that shit when Sonny Bryan's is just down the street? Answer: I wouldn't.

Posted by: mikeyslaw at June 11, 2009 02:58 PM (QMGr1)

57 'Nam Grunt,

You are harder than woodpecker lips, sir.

I do not share your gustatory enthusiasm for Satan's Smegma.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 11, 2009 03:00 PM (xGIqT)

58 Gov. Palin just created more jobs than Preznit Obizzle McStalinacorn and his porkulus: Palin brokers deal w/ TransCanada and Exxon for Natural Gas Pipeline

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at June 11, 2009 03:02 PM (T+MPi)

59 Off topic, but if this doesn't make you throw up a little in your mouth...

Posted by: Paulitics at June 11, 2009 03:02 PM (/4dJj)

60 Once you infidels have been "rehabilitated" in the camps, there will be plenty of capacity available for these apostates. It's just a matter of digging more mass graves....I mean, extra large latrine trenches.

Posted by: Barack Obama at June 11, 2009 03:03 PM (VmtE9)

61 Independents are just too stupid to know what side they are on.

Posted by: wHodat at June 11, 2009 03:04 PM (+sBB4)

Trying to push the bullshit cap and trade scheme that will intentionally drive up energy prices and stifle growth when the economy has gone to hell, gas prices are rising, and looming inflation? I'm starting wonder if Obama isn't the scary-smart economic genius the MSM tells me he is and not the borderline retard that his actions suggest.

The reason they're pushing the idea that socialized health care, cap and trade, and the rest of their dopey agenda has to be pushed right fucking now is that if they wait till 2010 elections are near, they'll get slaughtered over it. Better to do it now while there's time for the typical ADHD "independent" voter to forget about it by the time elections come around.

Posted by: Hollowpoint at June 11, 2009 03:04 PM (plsiE)

63 This morning on the overnight thread we were discussing the Mark Haynes/Barney Frank interview. It was discussed on all the financial sites and everyone was happy to see Mark shut him down. Seems like Mark is going to the first CNBCer who is going to begin saying how he really feels and he has a lot of fans. Hot Air posted the video and a commentary:

Posted by: muffy at June 11, 2009 03:05 PM (zplc6)

64 you mean the Republicans could do something to differentiate themselves by standing up, announcing why the President's policies stink and why their policies are better. you mean do something that they have been counseled to do by Rush Limbaugh. you mean fight back and tell people why they are going to be paying more? goodness, I am not sure that would work. it might be perceived as mean.

Posted by: ed at June 11, 2009 03:06 PM (Urhve)

65 Our task is for us all to personally educate every single person we can come in contact with about socialism, communism, and liberalism in general by 2010.

The death tolls
The fear and suffering
The micromanagement of your personal life from cradle to grave
The death of prosperity and innovation

Just about every person in this country can tell you that we lost the Vietnam War. (bullshit, but another story)

But just about nobody can tell you about the Killing Fields or Soviet Gulag life. Nobody knows the death toll of Red China. Or the conditions in other Workers' Paradises.

Posted by: sifty at June 11, 2009 03:06 PM (+2fWA)

66 A liberal is an idiot who's been mugged by unicorns.

Posted by: Ariana Huffington at June 11, 2009 03:06 PM (J5Srq)

Better to do it now while there's time for the typical ADHD "independent" voter to forget about it by the time elections come around.

Right except they forget in about three minutes.

Posted by: mikeyslaw at June 11, 2009 03:07 PM (QMGr1)

68 A conservative, as they say, is just a liberal who's been mugged by reality. Dopey disengaged independents probably won't become conservatives, but they will run from liberal policies one they've been mugged by reality.

It like how I was liberal when I was growing up in Boulder, then moved to New Orleans and became conservative. And it's the same reason why a lot of the upper-crust elite are liberal. It's easy to be a liberal when you don't see the consequences of liberalism.

Posted by: I have a Jalen Rose jersey at June 11, 2009 03:08 PM (0NuHT)

69 The John Adams series portrays Franklin claiming to be "radically moderate".

Posted by: maverick muse at June 11, 2009 03:08 PM (F1b/5)

70 We will be sending you right wing morons to the camps at Palau soon.

Posted by: wHodat at June 11, 2009 03:09 PM (+sBB4)

And it's the same reason why a lot of the upper-crust elite are liberal. It's easy to be a liberal when you don't see the consequences of liberalism.

Posted by: Eleven at June 11, 2009 03:10 PM (7DB+a)

72 Nuc Mam!! Hell yes!! Greatest stuff in the world. What is that shit? Pickled fish squeezins, I think? And I luvs me some kimchi. Best stuff I had in Asia was in Japan though -little creek fish (aiu?) that they seined, jammed a bamboo splinter up its ass, and stuck it in the ground by a fire til done. Didn't even gut them. Fish on a stick...

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 11, 2009 03:11 PM (5aa4z)

73 The problem with straddling the fence is eventually you will have to pick a side and get off, putting you at risk for either a rearrangement of your junk (if you're a man) or an atomic wedgie. Either way, an embarrasing situation.

Posted by: runningrn at June 11, 2009 03:11 PM (aC/SY)

Doc @ 45:

I agree with you, but I sometimes wonder if conservatives bust out the S-word a bit too often. Like how when liberals say something's racist for the umpteenth time and 2/3rds of the nation just rolls it's eyes.

Not that what Obama is doing isn't socialist. I agree with you that it is. But just... maybe some other words.

Euro-style. Gov't-run. Gov't-controlled. The AMTRAK of [insert industry], etc.

I'm just afraid that overuse of the word weakens it's impact, just like with libs and racism.

Posted by: Lee at June 11, 2009 03:11 PM (TxTIh)

75 A liberal is an idiot who's been mugged corn-holed by unicorns (and insists afterwards that the unicorns "respect" them).

Posted by: Deety at June 11, 2009 03:11 PM (aVzyR)

A liberal is an idiot who's been mugged by unicorns.

FIFY

Posted by: maddogg at June 11, 2009 03:11 PM (OlN4e)

77 The only way odumbass or his sheep send me anywhere is after the fight, and I would prolly win so I'll just stay out here in the Texas pasture and wait for the next wave to try me!

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 11, 2009 03:12 PM (bT3Lv)

78 We will be sending you right wing morons to the camps at Palau soon.

Awesome!!! I love SCUBA diving!

Posted by: Deety at June 11, 2009 03:13 PM (aVzyR)

79 "the Republicans are inept at talent-spotting and support"

O rly?

Steele does suck, though.

"This is, in fine, why I blame people like Megan McArdle*"

I hadn't realized until somebody here pointed it out that she'd gone for Trig trutherism. Fuck her.

Now how did a kimchi discussion get going here? You guys are weak... Or having it after it's aged too long. Have to try the really fresh stuff, or the cucumber variety.

Posted by: someone at June 11, 2009 03:14 PM (cdEVI)

80 This is all irrelevant, whether Waxmon/Markey passes means nothing the Supreme Court ruled that CO2 is a pollutant and can be regulated by the EPA by executive fiat Obama will destroy the economy through green house gas regulation whether congress is in on it or not again elections have consequences and we now have a socialist in the white house and he has no problem riding roughshod over the constitution and the Supreme Court will go along and the ruber stamp libtard controlled Senate and House won't go up against dear leader either, witness the secured bond holders in the Chrysler deal most people don't realize what just happened with that as of two days ago contracts in this country mean nothing they can be abrogated by executive fiat and the SCOTUS basically gave the ok for this.

Posted by: Oldcrow at June 11, 2009 03:15 PM (Q/BOf)

81 The Iraqi's make some good naan. Hell if I know what I was putting in it but it was pretty tasty. Also the chai tea is the shit.

Posted by: Mr. Pink at June 11, 2009 03:16 PM (NM1Nu)

I despise "money is weird" McArdle. She is not very clever and only accidentally ever right (and usually then when she's quoting someone else). I can't read her too often, or I begin thumping my head against the keyboard.

I recently changed my registration to Independent, and I have seen nothing in the GOP to make me change it back. I am never voting for one of those ******** again. There had better be a whole new crop of conservatives coming up before I glance their way.

Not that any of this matters. We are, officially, living in a dicatorship. (I refer to O! setting executive compensation for every company in the USSA!) Any delusions to the contrary are just fond memories.

Because of TARP, I blame and loathe Republicans for turning my lovely country into another fascist hellhole just as much as Democrats. Gee, thanks, George Bush, Tom Coburn, and John Boehner! Couldn't have done it without you!

It was fun while it lasted.

Posted by: Ella at June 11, 2009 03:16 PM (gQ4Zh)

Eat the rich.

A dry white wine is best served with your main course of broiled rich.

Posted by: Bill Ayers at June 11, 2009 03:19 PM (u0OTG)

84 With the Energy and Agricultural committees balking at this bill and the procedures being used to push it thru Congress - sooner or later the guys on the Ways and Means Committee are going to realize that this is really a tax bill and that they should get a cut at it as well.

Posted by: Jean at June 11, 2009 03:20 PM (L64A6)

85 O rly? http://tinyurl.com/lzhysd

Okay, that's a pleasant surprise and I stand corrected. Let's just say that IN THE PAST the GOP was less than stellar at recruiting.

Posted by: joncelli at June 11, 2009 03:21 PM (RD7QR)

Autopsy finds that David Carridine did not hang himself.

Posted by: maddogg at June 11, 2009 03:23 PM (OlN4e)

87 86,

So what was it robbery by a tea girl he picked up?

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 11, 2009 03:25 PM (bT3Lv)

88 Because when these squishy, dopey independents-by-ignorance start noticing electricity prices have doubled

Doesn't the energy tax bill feature "vouchers" for People-Who-Get-Government-Checks to pay their electric bills, thus preventing them from ever seeing the actual effect of the tax?

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Posted by: Purple Avenger at June 11, 2009 03:31 PM (etW8c)

90 @80,

Commas and periods are free and plentiful, buddy. You don't have to save them up - they're a renewable resource.

Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 11, 2009 03:34 PM (xGIqT)

91 Posted by: Oldcrow at June 11, 2009 03:15 PM (Q/BOf)

Sen. Inhoffe was on the Jason Lewis show yesterday and said that he can and will stop any EPA regulations of C02 through some congressional oversight provision (I'm not sure how that works, but he was confident he could kill it). Audio here: http://tinyurl.com/met9ow

Posted by: ol_dirty_/b/tard at June 11, 2009 03:35 PM (T+MPi)

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Sweet dreams!

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Posted by: Empire of Jeff at June 11, 2009 03:38 PM (xGIqT)

93 @90

Heee!

Posted by: Deety at June 11, 2009 03:39 PM (aVzyR)

Wait a second. Rasmussen is saying that the Generic Ballot is TIED at 40-40 and yet, Republicans LEAD amongst Independents by 17 points???!!!

So, is Rasmussen drinking the "only 20% Republicans left" koolaid too?

Seriously.

Posted by: Bill Mitchell at June 11, 2009 03:40 PM (QmfN4)

95 92, Empire of Jeff at June 11, 2009 03:38 PM (xGIqT)

At least it wasn't suicide by being stabbed 20 times!

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 11, 2009 03:41 PM (bT3Lv)

96 Good i hope it gets worse for the demacraps i hope TED KENNEDY gets voted out

Posted by: Spurwing Plover at June 11, 2009 03:44 PM (4EdvW)

97 OT: According to Fox News, it looks like North Korea might test another nuke.

Posted by: jaleach at June 11, 2009 03:45 PM (gHrZU)

98 96, Spurwing Plover at June 11, 2009 03:44 PM (4EdvW)

Fuck the swimmer, he's on a banana peel to hell as it is, john fucking kerry the traitor is the one that needs to be unemployed toot sweet!

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 11, 2009 03:47 PM (bT3Lv)

99 61 Independents are just too stupid to know what side they are on. - As Colonel Sherman T. Potter would say - "mule cookies". Some of us independents know exactly which side they are on. The side of the constitution. Are you or anyone else on this site going to tell me they are proud of how the republicans have supported and defended the constitution of these United States since, well, ever? Tell me what, according to the constitution, the federal govt. is supposed to be doing. Now, make a list of all the things that your precious party has supported in the past that are totally outside of those mandates. That list will be quite long if you are honest about it. Almost every Rep. who gets in office seems bent on taking us over the same cliff as the Dems. only, at best, at a slower speed.

Posted by: teej at June 11, 2009 03:49 PM (lG7ds)

100 99, teej at June 11, 2009 03:49 PM (lG7ds)

HOORAH!!!!

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 11, 2009 03:51 PM (bT3Lv)

101 They do not call this House Majority leader the Whip for nothing.. Palosi knows how to use it with deviant knowledge. WE have a noob freshman Dem who beat out(very narrowly)a great man from the Ohio 1st congressional District. He pretended to be a Socon.. So far his voting record,And I can prove this, is 86% in favor of Palosi. The Dem. freshman is out of his league. Vote with Palosi or die a fast political death.

Posted by: Mystry at June 11, 2009 03:51 PM (dIHlE)

102 59 Off topic, but if this doesn't make you throw up a little in your mouth...

She already looks like a man, and the world already has enough ugly gay women (yeah, I'm looking at you Rosie), so it may be a good idea.

Posted by: shibumi at June 11, 2009 03:51 PM (OKZrE)

103 Almost every Rep. who gets in office seems bent on taking us over the same cliff as the Dems. only, at best, at a slower speed.

Exactly.

Makes one start to consider the insane idea of the whole "New World Order."

Posted by: shibumi at June 11, 2009 03:53 PM (OKZrE)

104 This is probably one of the best and well thought out posts I have ever read.
Excellent analysis of independents, the American public's general fickle mood and what it means to us conservatives.
Bravo Ace. I am taking an English course this semester and I will ask the professor, who I hold in great esteem, to show me how to write like you.
A great read, I'm going to read it again.
And yes, reality is a train coming down the tracks and it will run over all men.

Posted by: NortonPete at June 11, 2009 03:53 PM (fVuwW)

105 O/T: Today Ken Lewis testified and when I went to clusterstock and they linked to Bess Levin's live blogging of the event I knew it had to be good. Bess Levin did an AOSHQ bang up job on the live blogging: but the thing that really fascinated me was the lone post of this video in the comments section, it says a whole lot on a WS blog.

Posted by: muffy at June 11, 2009 03:55 PM (zplc6)

106 I once got a hummer from a Korean lass. My pee smelled like kimchi for day.

Posted by: redrock at June 11, 2009 03:55 PM (ZRr96)

107 106, redrock at June 11, 2009 03:55 PM (ZRr96)

What the hell does a fake military vehicle have to do with piss???

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 11, 2009 03:57 PM (bT3Lv)

108 O/T: A very pissed off Neal Cavuto announced that the pay czar was on CNBC at this very moment talking to Maria Bartiromo. Neal was pretty angry that he was on CNBC since he hasn't returned a single call from FOX BUSINESS. Caught the tail end of the interview and the guy is pretty brazen. Hope CNBC has the guts to put the video of the itnerview up later, it will be worth a look.

Posted by: muffy at June 11, 2009 03:57 PM (zplc6)

109 Palomino!!

Posted by: The Atom Bomb of Loving Kindness at June 11, 2009 04:04 PM (Pl6My)

110 38% to 21% in favor fo the Rebublicans. Not enough I say to stem the blue tide of the ACORN votes that will surely eat you up like a Tasmanian devil,

Posted by: Mystry at June 11, 2009 04:07 PM (dIHlE)

111

Eric Cantor compares The One to Vlad "The Impaler" Putin

http://tinyurl.com/l9sf9g

Posted by: MAJHAM at June 11, 2009 04:11 PM (WvC5A)

112 Matt Bracken is an author who seems to understand how bad things in America could get if we don't deviate from our present course. His latest book, 3rd in a series is called:
Foreign Enemies And Traitors
...and is available at Amazon.com right now. I highly recommend it, it's a doozy. Goes well with a heaping bowl of kimchi. Check out his other books too.

Posted by: Sarge at June 11, 2009 04:11 PM (GQby7)

113 "Squishy, Dopey Uninformed "Independents:" I'll try and forgive you for that one, Ace.

Posted by: muffy at June 11, 2009 04:16 PM (zplc6)

114 If Waxman-Markey passes and the country tanks, it will be open season on any member of Congress who was stupid enough to vote for it. What puts the Democrats on the spot is Madame Defarge.......aka Pelosi. They know that they vote against her wishes at their own peril.

Posted by: GarandFan at June 11, 2009 04:19 PM (C3okI)

115

Mr. Steele to the black courtesy phone please...Michael Steele to the courtesy phone immediately.

Posted by: Mr. Pissed at June 11, 2009 04:19 PM (KZKfb)

116 Kimchi: Nature's most perfect food.

(And thanks for reminding me of TongDuChon, Empire of Jeff.)

Posted by: Bugler at June 11, 2009 04:19 PM (YCVBL)

117

#100 - Back at ya bro'

#103 - shibumi - if you actually take some time to look into it that whole "nutty conspiracy theory" stuff, it doesn't seem so nutty after all. It's just that some of the folks who speak the loudest about it do some nutty stuff or say some nutty things. Then all of the "mainstream folks" Repubs. and Dems. paint everyone who says the word conspiracy with the same brush. That even happens on this site. Kinda like how everyone who is pro-life (like me) is dangerous and liable to pull the trigger on an abortionist at any time.

Posted by: teej at June 11, 2009 04:21 PM (lG7ds)

118 Barack Obama. False Profit.

Posted by: AtlasMugged at June 11, 2009 04:22 PM (PbkDy)

119 I like hot stuff (AoS ladies come to mind, the best), but a heaping bowl of rice with kimchi over it is good times, or nuoc` mam over grilled fish and rice is also good times.

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 11, 2009 04:23 PM (bT3Lv)

120 Sorry, that sentence structure really sucked.

Posted by: teej at June 11, 2009 04:24 PM (lG7ds)

121 Time to go. Have a good evening you morons. I got your back N.G.

Posted by: teej at June 11, 2009 04:26 PM (lG7ds)

122 @6 I can't help but wonder what the GOP's numbers would be if they had a friggin' backbone in standing up & speaking out about the total insanity that has engulfed this administration.

Twinks,

A big part of that problem is that we had John "Tepid Water" McCain as our standard bearer last election. He sought to blur differences and agree with Dims as a way to win.

Posted by: The Commissar of Love at June 11, 2009 04:27 PM (ao5cQ)

123 121, teej at June 11, 2009 04:26 PM (lG7ds)

Keep your head down and powder dry Bro'!

Posted by: 'Nam Grunt at June 11, 2009 04:28 PM (bT3Lv)

124 O/T: Now this one is interesting:

"Notice, by the way, that the US Media has totally ignored this story - even though the securities in question are allegedly US instruments.

Gee, I wonder why? Might the authorities know they're real and be just a wee bit nervous that disclosure of a sovereign attempting to covertly dump nearly $140 billion in debt could cause a wee bit of panic, given that we're running nearly $200 billion a month in deficits?

Inquiring minds want to know what's really going on here."

It was on denninger but I got the link from Joe at Clusterstock: "Italy Seizes $135 BILLION Of US Bonds"

Figured with two reputable sources it is worth posting.

Posted by: muffy at June 11, 2009 04:31 PM (zplc6)

125 "US government securities seized from Japanese nationals, not clear whether real or fake"
and from Joe's article, this: "The High Cost of Debt: Very-High-Denomination Treasury Notes and U.S. Treasury Debt Management, 1955-1969 "

Posted by: muffy at June 11, 2009 04:49 PM (zplc6)

126

Republicans, you need to take your balls out of the glass cases that are sitting on your desks, dust them off and man up! You need to hang the stinking, rotting albatross corpse of Obama's spending and hang it on your Democrat "friends's" necks.

Posted by: runningrn at June 11, 2009 04:51 PM (aC/SY)

127 wow, it is gone from the front page. Wish I knew how to cache stuff.

Posted by: muffy at June 11, 2009 04:52 PM (zplc6)

128 It was on denninger but I got the link from Joe at Clusterstock: "Italy Seizes $135 BILLION Of US Bonds"

Billion dollar Bonds. Gots to be fake. If they ain't, there's a story in there somewhere.

Posted by: trainer at June 11, 2009 05:17 PM (Cubfv)

129

As Colin Powell said everyone wants bigger government and more taxes.

Sounds like the Dhimmies are following Powell's beliefs. Good on them. Combine that with Obama's honesty and 2010 is shaping up to be another 1994.

Posted by: Thomas Jackson at June 11, 2009 05:25 PM (B8gqF)

130 I am taking an English course this semester and I will ask the professor, who whom I hold in great esteem

Posted by: Officious Prick at June 11, 2009 05:40 PM (0u6eN)

131 Yeah, I am one of those Republicans who became independent. And, I will stay that way until there is a national see change at party headquarters. I do not see that happening any time soon. I probably will not vote again from what I am seeing. I don't know how common my deal is, but the Republican party can eat the dirt it has been shoving in my face through poor leadership until it starts, you know, actually being conservative. Not one more Red Cent, McCain, not even one more Bush (to include Palin).

Posted by: Doom at June 11, 2009 06:04 PM (ntpwx)

132 I am a conservative not a republican but I know enough to be aware that independents are usually found in special olympics.

Posted by: Thomas Jackson at June 11, 2009 06:06 PM (B8gqF)

133 Okay, so now there is a third "legitimate source": "The haul taken from a pair of Japanese nationals trying to pass into Switzerland at Chiasso. Given that local law provides for a forfeiture of up to 40% of the value of the undeclared instruments, if these are genuine the fine could reach 53 billion "

Posted by: muffy at June 11, 2009 06:18 PM (zplc6)

134

"June 10, 2009, 12:01 AM What If Obama's Out of His Mind?"

Posted by: muffy at June 11, 2009 06:40 PM (zplc6)

135 Proviso for #134. I didn't read the article yet, haven't had time, however, it is being linked and reference at so many places that I read, disparate places, not just political sites but others that I thought I would give you guys a heads up on it.

Posted by: muffy at June 11, 2009 06:42 PM (zplc6)

136

@59: Ok, it's a lesbian, but it had a sex change. Does that mean it's now gay? Or is it straight?

I'm waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to sober to really contemplate this stuff.

Posted by: Fa Cube Itches at June 11, 2009 07:08 PM (aJ6rs)

137

Posted by: muffy at June 11, 2009 06:18 PM (zplc6)

Couldn't have been Japs. Only the Chinese own 134 Billion in US bonds. Seriously, I can only read a little Italian because of a French kiss I got in high school, but that shit may well have ramifications.

Posted by: Herr Morgenholz at June 11, 2009 07:16 PM (y2Z1v)

138 And so, I now know that I should check the internet to see if there are real legitimate government or MSM sources, I feel kind of stupid since my friend said that I am a blog nube and didn't realize that sometimes people post this stuff to generate traffic to their blogs: (not saying zero hedge did this or any of the others I linked but I think I'll just quietly go sit in the corner): "About Those Bonds"

Posted by: muffy at June 11, 2009 08:58 PM (zplc6)

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