1 The Jews won't let me comment.

2

I always find it amusing how the democrats speak as though they have no special interest groups.  They are the pure ones, and anybody who opposes them is a slave to "special interests".  It is Orwellian.

Of course if the Press will allow you to get away with it, then why not?

3 Blue-on-Blue violence: it makes any cloudy day just a little sunnier.

4 Gabe: Hey, Republicans in Congress, how about a little backbone?

Republicans in Congress: Uh, what is this back bone of which you speak?

5 Obama knows that scorched earth works.  It got him into office, and it is only a metter of time before he is reduced to lame duck status.

6 If there was one Republican representative in my state (NM), I'd be on the phone right now.  As is I'm not represented by a left-wing moonbat (Heinrich).  I think I'll give him a call anyway just to vent to some lackey.

7 No backbone exists anymore in the GOP.

Rudderless douches letting El Douche steamroll his entire agenda.

Where are the GOP to support the conservative Dems who are honorable enough to stand up to the pure bullshit comign out of Obama on healthcare about "savings"?

Fucking pussies.

8 I always find it amusing how the democrats speak as though they have no special interest groups.  They are the pure ones, and anybody who opposes them is a slave to "special interests".  It is Orwellian.

No shit. tho it's not amusing to me, it just pisses me off.  And no one in the MSM will ever bring this up because they're on the same side.  Like all the enviro wackos aren't a special interest???  Doncha know their interest is for the good of us all?  We just don't know what's good for us.  I hate the dipwads that complain the middle class who vote Republican are "voting against their own self-interest" (i.e. "you're too f-ing stupid to know what's good for you").

"Nuance" is just a euphemism for "newspeak".

9 It is weird to see the lefties go after a guy like Ben Nelson.  Yes, he is the most conservative Democrat in the Senate - he is from deep-red Nebraska after all.  But it's the liberals who are constantly reminding the Republicans that our "problem" is that we are too ideological, we have too many litmus tests, we are too intolerant of moderates and whatnot.  And here they are, savaging a moderate of their own.

Ben Nelson is in a tough position because he has a difficult re-election coming up in 2010.  He is helped by the fact that he is the only statewide elected Democrat in the state, meaning that he will garner the support of pretty much every statewide liberal as their only "true representative", but he won't get that outside PAC money if he continues to oppose Obama.  The GOP bench here in Nebraska is pretty deep and they are already gearing up to give Ben Nelson a run for his money in 2010.  Fireworks for sure.

10

The GOP could be trotting out ads explaining why this is a bad idea.

Couldn't they?

11

Heretics will be punished! HERETICS WILL BE BURNED!

Hey, does this cassock make me look fat?

12 "Obama knows he's running out of time because people are on to him."

This was the firs thing that I thought when I heard that he was trying to jam this through. He has to know that his whole spending game will be up soon - BUT, I will say that a defeat of this will be a big blow to O' s plans since it was his plan all along to get as many on the public dole as possible, thus creating a national patronage system.

His next big gut check will come when he calls for massive (meaning unheard of) tax increases across the board - thereby destroying his "no new taxes" pledge. What he'll be left with is a flagging economy and deficits through the roof. Not a great platform for Dems in 2010/12.

13

OT

Look  Obama, a Jew that loves Israel and will not stand by while you help others destroy Her:

http://tinyurl.com/m23rrh

Israeli prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu will announce in his foreign policy speech scheduled for Sunday the adoption of the road map and the "two-state solution" for settling the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, according to sources close to the prime minister.

Netanyahu is expected to present conditions for the implementation of the road map, above all a Palestinian recognition of Israel as the homeland of the Jewish people.

According to so.urces, Netanyahu will defy US pressure and declare that settlements in the West Bank are not an obstacle to peace

The reason Obama hates Israel is that he doesn't remember giving that land to the Jews.  /off

14 They are absolutely ruthless when it comes to advancing their agenda. It's ironic because they're always accusing republicans of "throwing people out of the party" when THEY are the ones who do that all the time and republicans don't. They're not interested in debates, discourse, or an open discussion on policy. It's their way or the highway. Watch out for the steamroller.

15 Personally, I think the President's ride is over. My prediction: he doesn't get one more of his nasty-assed plans through. Best hope now is that he'll pull a Clinton, and one of his advisors (a la Dick Morris) will present him with the options: 1. Keep going down this road to miserable failure; 2. Change your tune to be more in line with the American people and win a second term. He picks option 2.

The real question is, is he more interested in an acceptable legacy and what the history books will say, or in his own crazy principles. Remember when answering -- he IS a politician.

16 Something else - the Dems have to run against this crap a lot sooner than O will in 2010. It's not mentioned much now, but with Porkulus, Nat. Health Care, etc., the Donks stand a good chance of getting their asses handed to them next year and beyond if all doesn't go well.

17 The reason Obama hates Israel is that he doesn't remember giving that land to the Jews.  /off

Give the One a break, it was about 4000 years ago.

18

Landrieu must become One of the Body of the true Landru. She must be absorbed.

19
Wright and his "Them JOOOS" statement.  The AMA dropping the pre-emptive bomb on hussein's speech.  Late Night host advocating rape.  All of this is getting handed to the GOP on a platter, where's the response?  (thats a rhetorical question, btw)

20 Dang Straights -- they're not called the "Stupid Party" for nothing.

21 Best hope now is that he'll pull a Clinton, and one of his advisors (a la Dick Morris) will present him with the options: 1. Keep going down this road to miserable failure; 2. Change your tune to be more in line with the American people and win a second term. He picks option 2.

I don't think Barry's smart or humble enough to pick option two. 

He's going to keep trying to push his crap through despite people telling him to shove it, leaving him as impotent as Jimmy Carter was by the end of his term.

22

16

 

The Paygo Cover-Up

The real game here (payas you go) is that the President is trying to give Democrats in Congress political cover for the health-care blowout and tax-increase votes that he knows are coming. The polls are showing that Mr. Obama's spending plans are far less popular than the President himself, and Democrats in swing districts are getting nervous. The paygo ruse gives Blue Dog Democrats cover to say they voted for "fiscal discipline," even as they vote to pass the greatest entitlement expansion in modern history.

23

Personally, I think the President's ride is over. My prediction: he doesn't get one more of his nasty-assed plans through. Best hope now is that he'll pull a Clinton, and one of his advisors (a la Dick Morris) will present him with the options: 1. Keep going down this road to miserable failure; 2. Change your tune to be more in line with the American people and win a second term. He picks option 2.

This IS looking like 1993 all over again. Assuming the Establishment Republicans wise up *a little* (and that is possible, even for them), 2010 is looking better and better.

The real question is: will the Obamunist go Carter or Clinton? Unlike Billy Jeff, who was just out for Billy Jeff, Zero is a committed commiecrat.And it is possible that Porkulus will be so devastating to the economy, unlike anything Billy Jeff did in 1993-4, that we are on the stairway to stagflation.

 

 

24 This looks like a bridge too far for Obama, it ain't gonna happen.

25 11

Heretics will be punished! HERETICS WILL BE BURNED!

Hey, does this cassock make me look fat?

 

Yes, and it doesn't make you look Catholic.  You could learn a thing or two from the pros.  Back to school, heretic!

26 Man you said it Gabe.  Knock knock...hello? Anyone there?  We need them to open their pieholes everyday and speak some truth to this complete takeover of our lives by Obama and his clowns.  Damn, wish I was a congressman...oh ...on second thought...no I don't.

27 Possible, but I recall reading during the campaign about O's tenure as Editor of the Harvard Law Review. The minority gripe groups expected their stuff to breeze right in, but when it came down to having his name on something that would have clearly been substandard, O opted to actually do a good job. The story could be apocryphal, and I can't personally verify it as I don't read the HLR, but never ever ever count out the egotism of a politician. It is, after all, why they got involved in that shit to begin with.

28

Posted by: rockhead

I'm stuck with Ben Gay Lujan.  He's not only a lefty, he's stupid.  Is that redundant?

29

I wonder if Federal takeover of our healthcare system might be like going to the clinic when I was in the AirForce?  Lots of mistakes made, but what the heck, nobody can get sued in the military.  Plus, you don't have choice of what Doc you see.  Yep, that's where we are headed for.

30 27

I hear you - but it's important to remember that the Obama at HLS and the Obama as POTUS are two different things. While I'm sure that he had a healthy ego at HLS, he was still pretty much a nobody. As POTUS, he has the world on a string and gets pretty much whatever he wants. Meaning, he doesn't like to be denied and will throw a tantrum when it happens.

31 volfan -- Hadn't thought of that. Circumstances have certainly changed. For me, though, that throws it into coin flip territory. Too many variables -- plus the unknowns of the human soul -- to predict it.

32 Obamacare will go down in defeat.  It took a little while but the public and quite a few of the O's supporters are waking up slowly and they don't like what they see, not one bit.

33
I wonder if Federal takeover of our healthcare system might be like going to the clinic when I was in the AirForce?

Y'know, the thing about the Docs in the service is, for the most part they're fulfilling their obligation for med school.  All the army physicians I ever dealt with (other than the chancre mechanics at the MEPS) seemed competent and earnest, for the most part.   They knew they'd end up in private practice soon enough and were motivated to be good docs.

If this health-disasterplan gets shoved through, we'll be dealing with docs that couldn't get hired by the post office.

34 This is the thing that really scares me. This appears to be the path that the insane left now takes with anyone in the party who doesn't march in lockstep. Do the Blue Dogs have a chance? One has to wonder. There seems to be an endless series of liberal "group organizations" ready to pounce and coerce any Democrat who wavers in the slightest from The Master Plan (tm).

35 I am not as optimistic as some of you. He is still very popular, he has 90% of the media/propagandists on his side. My gut tells me he is going to make this happen.

I hope I am wrong, it would mean a new career for me.

36 I heard Landrieu on Larry Kudlow the other night pushing real hard for drilling in the Gulf. So there is two policy platforms she disagrees with the One. She watch out.

37 I wish I could be optimistic but we have to remember that it's not 1993. The one has even more slavish support than Bubba did, the Republicans are nowhere near as active as they were back then, and the Dems have had a decade to push the "health care is broken, only the government can fix it!" meme. They will pass some kind of "reform" bill and it will be a disaster. Good times, good times.

38 Eh, uniball got there before me.

If only the blue dog Democrats could be convinced to cross the aisle. You know, we haven't heard much from W himself. I wonder what a list of visitors to his ranch would show. Hmmmmmmmmmmm........

39 This strongly indicates to me that Obama's internal polling is showing support eroding, and that a bubble may soon burst.

I strongly recommend that fellow conservatives take a look at public polling and see if we can't find the outliers that have Team Barry shitting their pants.

40

Dang Straights#33

I would agree, the young docs were just doing time to pay off the for the med school.  But, there were lifer docs, and those were the ones that scared me.  Why would you stay in for peanuts when a private practice rakes in the loot?  Cause your incompetent and it's a good place to hide, sheltered from a medical board.   We're shagged in the bung if we go this route.

41 My experience with Military docs is they are, for the most part, top shelf. Many do it out of a sense of duty and when they leave for private practice they are humble and work harder than most. These guys are used to doing grunt work that many private practice docs feel are way below their pay grade.

42 You know, if we beat Obama on government health care, we seriously cripple him and his administration?

Think about it. He's at his strongest right now with huge democrat margins in Congress. If we shove his plan back down his throat, we cut his political legs right off.

Let's do it!

43 Sir Elliot #39

I was wondering the same thing. Yesterday you had Cantor was making his bold predication or republican takeover. I am hopeful that didn't just come out of no where. Then team Obama demanding healthcare reform must happen NOW!!!!! They must recognize it is now or never.

If Obama fails on healthcare then a major platform of the Change!1!!11 rhetoric is null and void. What would he have to campaign on in 2012? Coming up with the brilliant plan of sending Uighers to Bermuda? 

44 The Republicans in congress will do EVERYTHING but a grow a backbone.  They've had eight years of practice being spineless wimps under Bush, why should they change strategies now?  I'm sure there are other more important things they can do to rally their party to The Cause, like bashing Palin, attacking Limbaugh, or maybe pushing some hip new socially conservative cause.  Heck, they can even sign on to Obambi's Tax n' Cap plan, maybe come out against drilling in ANWR.  Endless possibilities, all of them bad....but at least they'll be doing something.

45 It is rather funny to listen to Obama talk about how this will save money "that can be used elsewhere to defray costs/deficits/etc.".  It reminds me of someone making a large purchase, then saying because it was on sale, they made money.  If you spend $20k on a new car that is normally $30k, you didn't make $10k, you spent $20k.  The only way you do is if you turn around and sell it for $30k, but people who say this typically don't.  Consumption isn't investment (i.e. business expense), though DC is populated with people who mix the two terms.  But that is what Obama is doing: he is pointing to hypothetical cost reductions in total health care spending and then incorporating it into his budget, when the budget numbers are actually increasing due to higher governmental expenditures on health care.  In other words, he is claiming the government saves money because (again, hypothetically) overall health care expenses go down (though government expenditures on health care necessarily increase).

What he could do (though there is no reason to explain why they haven't done so, other than it not being true) is argue that the plan actually costs the government nothing.  Let me explain.  People will be purchasing the government insurance plan, which presumably is not subsidized nor distorted by laws creating preferential treatment (and that is a lot to presume in his case).  Insurance plans work by having the purchasers pay at least equal to, if not more than, the amount that gets spent.  Thus the governmental plan would be getting at least as much in as it spends, producing a net zero cost on the overall budget. 

Now, we know that this basic scenario can't be the case as they are trying to figure out ways to pay for it, meaning that a large portion does in fact have to be subsidized through taxation elsewhere.  Plus it is mandated.  So most people will have to pay for their health care, either though work (compensation) or cash, assuming poorer folks will have much or all of their coverage paid for.  And as that is the case, why is this better than the plan McCain put forth in the campaign in which universal medical coverage would be purchased by individuals for individuals, and subsidized through tax credits, than this system of state control and welfare?  Machiavelli gives us (at least part of) the answer: "The wise prince will adopt a course that will make the citizens need the state and him, and thus always find them faithful."

46 Insurance plans work by having the purchasers pay at least equal to, if not more than, the amount that gets spent.  Thus the governmental plan would be getting at least as much in as it spends, producing a net zero cost on the overall budget.

Is that how it works though?

Sorry to post the substance of this comment on two different threads (AMA Pans Obamacare) but I'm trying to get a handle on this.

Someone correct me if I'm mistaken but I was under the impression that insurance claims (clinical services etc.) and operating costs are not simply paid out of the pool of premium revenues but that the whole system kind of depends on the insurance companies' being able to invest that money and make it grow.

Instead of something like:

"Okay, we raked in $100 in premiums this month, paid $90 in claims, and our operating costs were $4, so that leaves us with a 6% profit, wheee!"

More like:

"Okay, we took in $90 in premiums this month but paid out $100 in claims and $4 in operating costs from our $1,000 fund.  It's a good thing our more conservative investments are continuing to show a return even in this down time, because otherwise forget showing a profit, we wouldn't be able to pay claims at the premium rates we are currently charging."

Cthlulu also mentioned this in the AMA Pans Obama Care post:

You missed the "heads I win, tails you lose" aspect of the profit limiting. The whole concept of insurance is to share risk amongst a larger pool. Each individual policy isn't supposed to make a profit, just all of them put together.

This applies to policy years, as well -- all the premiums collected in non-earthquake years are partially offset when an earthquake happens.


Again, someone correct me if I'm wrong on the basic outlines here.  I'd really like to know.  And if I do have it right what does this mean for the congressional proposals incorrectly based on a government styled model of budgeting? i.e. Project revenue, and whack that figure up into chunks until every penny is spent, deficits are okay (we can always raise taxes/print money) but surpluses are unacceptable and must be pissed away during the next round of budgeting until there is nothing left.

47 re: deety

I was giving a simplistic version of it, but yeah they do invest it.  Most insurance companies are fairly conservative with these investments (recall AIG got hit because it invested in bonds that were rated AAA, but proved to be far worse by being linked to subprimes).  That offsets inflation and adds a little bit of profit.  But it doesnt change the basic premise of taking in more than what expenditures are in the long-term.

Sometimes one particular month may end with higher expenditures than expected, but it is basic mathematics - risk pooling.  And the bigger the pool, the easier it is to predict risk/expected expenditures.  Gaming works the same way.  Besides, that $1000 reserves you mentioned had to come from somewhere; it came from all the previous times where income>cost.

The premiums go into the cumulative amount, and the claims come out of there too.  Usually the premiums are slightly higher than the claims, so that the reserves can slowly be built up to self-insure against a catastrophe.  With larger reserves, a company can offer lower rates and compensate employees better.  In a corollary to this, I know with mutual insurance companies, after awhile a policyholder can collect more in "dividends" than what they pay each year for coverage.

Health care tends not to have the catastrophic expenses that others do (like in the event of a flood, earthquake, hurricane, etc.).  But it is still based upon the same principle: that in the long-term, a company takes in more than it spends: so employees can be paid, the company can grow, and a little bit of a buffer for unexpected losses.

If the government was to run a true insurance system, it would have to follow the same basic premises that a private insurer would.  Personally, I do not know if they intend to trim costs by running it more like a non-profit or how they would invest their collected premiums.  Investing in T-bills would seem to be a bit of a shell game, and I think we are all uneasy about them investing in private businesses, not to mention the higher risk (and the created necessity of protecting those industries) that would involve.

48 Thank you so much A.G. for the response.

I don't think, just by the nature of the beast, that the government can run a true insurance system.  See the Social Security "trust fund" or "lock box" for an example of what happens when huge piles of money are left around where government has access to them.  They cannot leave them unmolested.

Even if an insurance system were set up, I cannot see anything other than disaster were the federal government to become the worlds largest investor in private industry for many of the same reasons you pointed to.

49 Blue-on-Blue violence: it makes any cloudy day just a little sunnier.

Posted by: DocJ at June 11, 2009 11:53 AM (g8ibn)

Me too--I couldn't have said it any better!

50

"Hey, Republicans in Congress, how about a little backbone?"

Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha *wipes eye*  Ohhhh, that's rich!

Go on....

51 Mutiny against our Lordand Savior?  Say it ain't so.  Must be them JOOOOS.

52

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