Bleg: What Rules Make it Harder for Muslims to Meet Zakat in the U.S.?

I need you guys to put me some knowledge. The President complained this morning:

For instance, in the United States, rules on charitable giving have made it harder for Muslims to fulfill their religious obligation. That is why I am committed to working with American Muslims to ensure that they can fulfill zakat.

I've been digging around Google, but I can't find which rules on charitable giving the President believes make it difficult for Muslims to meet their zakat obligation. I'm sure there has to be some and I'm absolutely certain he's not talking about the criminal investigations into Islamic charities who gave money to terrorits as implied by AP. But I can't find what they are.

Any ideas?

Posted by: Gabriel Malor at 11:03 AM

Comments

1 Actually I kind of assumed he was talking about the criminal investigations.

Posted by: Dr. Manhattan at June 04, 2009 11:04 AM (OkrJ4)

2 Don't worry, Gabriel. Geithner's on it. Whatever it is.

Posted by: Dan Collins at June 04, 2009 11:05 AM (SohFK)

3 I think he wants contributions made to his campaign and legal funds to be legally eligible for "zakat" and tax deductible. Get it?

Posted by: Editor at June 04, 2009 11:06 AM (pUfK9)

4 We need a Zakat Czar to look into this.

Posted by: President Obama at June 04, 2009 11:06 AM (IhQuA)

5 Because there's no way they can meet Zakat if they can't give money to go back towards things like IED's and such.

Posted by: Flyguy03 at June 04, 2009 11:06 AM (LIzjN)

6 It's the rule that prohibits contributing nuclear fuel.

Posted by: WalrusRex at June 04, 2009 11:07 AM (xxgag)

7 We're going to create a non-interest paying savings and hawala system.

Posted by: Dan Collins at June 04, 2009 11:07 AM (SohFK)

8 Obama means the rule where someone in the US can't right a check directly to Hassan Nasralla and has to go through, you know, CAIR and the Holy Land Foundation.

Posted by: DoDoGuRu at June 04, 2009 11:08 AM (xBkZj)

9 ACORN is working on this.

Posted by: wHodat at June 04, 2009 11:09 AM (+sBB4)

10 Liberals never have to prove anything. Accusations without any facts are just fine. That's how our Pravda works.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 04, 2009 11:10 AM (1Jaio)

11 I have an idea: he's talking out of his ass. Just like when he says women who wear headscarves are treated unfairly in the west. He doesn't know what he's talking about, just making up shit that sounds good to his audience at the time.

Posted by: yinzer at June 04, 2009 11:10 AM (/Mla1)

12 So I guess he is going to change charity rules so they can donate to whoever they want to? Including those that support and fund terrorism? I found this very disturbing too. Or is he referring to his raising taxes on charity giving? Maybe he will exempt Muslims from the tax? I think it is the first reason I gave. I can't think of anything else he could be talking about...

Posted by: 2Nightmares at June 04, 2009 11:10 AM (CZoVx)

Everything I know about Islam comes from watching Little Mosque on the Prairie. You could ask Amar, or you could ask Babar, or you ask them both and probably get different answers. Just keep in mind that they're fictional characters.

Posted by: FireHorse at June 04, 2009 11:11 AM (jMk+v)

14 Isn't zakat usually given every year to a central fund in the mosque, and the mosque elders or imams distribute the money (or sometimes even food) to the poor. At least, that is how it was (and probably still is) done in Malaysia and Indonesia.

Posted by: IC at June 04, 2009 11:11 AM (jZNCU)

15 The portion of 18 USC that make it a crime to give money to known terrorist organizations.

Posted by: Penfold at June 04, 2009 11:12 AM (lF2Kk)

16 Ahem, I believe he is talking about all those crazy Boosh regulations designed to ensure that money for "charities" is not being funneled to creators of manmade disasters. Stupid Racist Boosh, there is no way that the adherents of the Religion of Peace could ever create manmade disasters; must be all those nutty Christianists and their rightwing fundamentalist Salvation Army.

Posted by: Teleprompter Messiah at June 04, 2009 11:12 AM (2/2Kk)

17 Gee, all these promises to American Muslims...I don't remember this being something he campaign on last year. I wonder why.

Posted by: sydney jane at June 04, 2009 11:13 AM (T8h7U)

18 Maybe this speech was mainly for US Muslims. He could care less about foreign policy.

Posted by: wHodat at June 04, 2009 11:15 AM (+sBB4)

I told him to say it. I was just makin' shit up.

Posted by: TOTUS at June 04, 2009 11:15 AM (QYJUz)

20 Wait until the Muslims see how well he keeps his promises.

Posted by: Roy at June 04, 2009 11:15 AM (cB77O)

21 I think he means the lowering of tax deductions to charities. Clearly, Muslims need an extra tax credit. It is unconscionable that we discriminate against them in this manner.

Posted by: Loren Heal at June 04, 2009 11:15 AM (uiKEv)

The technical term for this passage of the speech is known as "making shit up".

Posted by: Circa (Insert Year Here) at June 04, 2009 11:15 AM (B+qrE)

Is this the best way for Barry to reach out and bend over to the Muslim world?

WASHINGTON � The Obama administration's pick for a top intelligence post at the Homeland Security Department has ties to the CIA's harsh interrogation program, a congressional aide said.

This could become an issue during Philip Mudd's confirmation hearing, which is expected next week. Mudd was nominated to be under secretary of intelligence and analysis at Homeland Security.

The aide confirmed that Mudd, who was deputy director of the Office of Terrorism Analysis at the CIA during the Bush administration, had direct knowledge of the agency's harsh interrogation program. The aide, who spoke on condition of anonymity, was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.

Posted by: TheQuietMan at June 04, 2009 11:16 AM (1Jaio)

24 That is how I understood it. Zakat is charity to the fellow poor muslims, not charity in general and that "Charities" themselves decide where it goes.

So I think he is talking about charity scandals.

Posted by: TendStl at June 04, 2009 11:16 AM (GIbee)

25 Wait until the Muslims see how well he keeps his promises.

Oh, he'll keep his promises to them, just not to us. That's the problem.

Posted by: joncelli at June 04, 2009 11:17 AM (RD7QR)

Any ideas?

Yeah, they aren't allowed to give to front organizations for terrorists.

Posted by: porknbean at June 04, 2009 11:17 AM (NWZhH)

27 15 The portion of 18 USC that make it a crime to give money to known terrorist organizations.

Exactly.

Many so called "Muslim Charitable Organizations" are aligned with terrorists, and have been raided/shut down by the FBI. Consequently, it's "harder" for Muslims to do their charitable duty. To the normal American, that's a good thing, since we don't want Americans supporting terrorism.

However, Prez for Life Hussein has a different "viewpoint" and may not have a problem with Americans donating to charities that are dedicated to destroying America.

Posted by: shibumi at June 04, 2009 11:17 AM (OKZrE)

28 According to Charity Navigator:

"Contributions to foreign governments, foreign charities, and certain private foundations similarly are not deductible. "

I don't know what zakat requires... frankly, I don't give a fuck... but I'd guess this is it.

Now it'd be hysterically funny if President Jerkwad relaxes those rules for muslims when he's been threatening for months to eliminate a lot of the tax benefits for charitable giving to non-profits in this country. Of course, that's the giving from those evil American capitalists, so there you go.

I loathe this dude.

Posted by: Y-not at June 04, 2009 11:17 AM (sey23)

29 Oh, and by the way, why should an American president care about the religious duties of a minority?

Is Obama also working to help the interests of Moron polygamists?

How about Satanists? Is he working to ensure they have a place to hold their midnight rituals? Or a fresh supply of animal blood? Or whatever Satanists do?

This is a minority of less than 3 million individuals. A small minority.

Aren't we supposed to have separation of church and state? Or did we throw that out too?

Posted by: shibumi at June 04, 2009 11:21 AM (OKZrE)

I. Can't. take. it. anymore.

AAAAHHHHHH!

Code Pink and HAMAS. Together again.

http://tinyurl.com/pee8lq

Posted by: momma at June 04, 2009 11:21 AM (penCf)

31 Though rather trifling compared to some of the other bullshit Obama spews regularly, little statements like these really tick me off.

Unless he is in fact talking about donations to CAIR or the HLF, then issues with Muslims fulfilling Zakat would be shared by a member of any religion donating to their Church or Temple or cult headquarters or whatever. In fact, if it is a problem with the tax code, it would impact all charitable donations to non-profit insitutions, right?

At best, this is pure pandering to a Muslim audience; at worst, it's veild support for some very dubious organizations. Taken alone, it's minor�but it's just one of a litany of baseless statements that Obama is never asked or expected to clarify.

Posted by: Fortunate Son at June 04, 2009 11:22 AM (FaLC9)

32 is he talking about the groups that have been banned b/c of funding terrorism? or is he talking about a whole Islamic banking system being implemented, AIG comes to mind.....they do not charge interest in Islam yes? who knows what he is planning...

Posted by: ginaswo/MiM at June 04, 2009 11:22 AM (P6hfV)

33 I ate at a restaraunt listed in the Zakat guide, they made this stuff called shAwarma which I thought was FAJITAS, the place was rated four stares but it made me SICK

Posted by: spurwing atwater at June 04, 2009 11:24 AM (sXLx/)

Remember that a lot of his supporters consider Hamas to be a social organization no different than ACORN. His church in Chicago reprinted Hamas literature in its church bulletin. Of course he himself is sending Hamas ~ $1,000,000,000. That takes care of a lot of zakat.

Posted by: Have Blue at June 04, 2009 11:25 AM (mV+es)

35 Here's the link to Charity Navigator.
LINK

CN is a really respected site in the non-profit world. I recommend it highly as a research tool when you are deciding where to make your charitable gifts.

I'm in a really foul mood now. This asshole is such an embarrassment and, even worse, extremely dangerous. I can't believe he'd pander to these morons while simultaneously putting the screws to Israel and issuing such a weak statement about Long's murder.

Posted by: Y-not at June 04, 2009 11:25 AM (sey23)

36 I hope the Dept. of Justice can address this outrage, now that they're done protecting illegals from voting discrimination down in Georgia.

Posted by: CB at June 04, 2009 11:27 AM (9Wv2j)

37 OT: What in the world? Islam created algebra, the compass, and the printing press now?

1 Actually I kind of assumed he was talking about the criminal investigations.

Yeah, that's the first thing I thought too.

Posted by: Dang Straights at June 04, 2009 11:29 AM (Haq+B)

38 He's talking about charitable donations to jihadists. Holy Land Foundation etcetera.

Posted by: Alec Rawls at June 04, 2009 11:30 AM (c+6of)

Found this article about zakats, from 2006. Maybe this is why Obama supports helping Muslims fulfill their zakats.

Why is O trying to make it easier for Muslims to fulfill zakat, yet has basically cut in half the amount one can give to charitable organizations (tax wise)? http://tinyurl.com/c8hsk7

Posted by: momma at June 04, 2009 11:32 AM (penCf)

40 Another source (still not primaryl source, though): Lectric Law Library

"Contributions made directly to foreign organizations are not
deductible, except in the case of some Canadian organizations as
specified in an agreement with that country. Also, donations to charities
located in Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, and other U.S. possessions
are deductible. Such organizations must meet the requirements for
exemption under the income tax laws of the United States."

Posted by: Y-not at June 04, 2009 11:32 AM (sey23)

41 Besides the terrorist-support prohibitions mentioned above, how about the fact that Obama intends to implement even more punitive taxation, which will mean that all Americans, including ROPers will have less money for Zakat?

Posted by: Holdfast at June 04, 2009 11:33 AM (Gzb30)

42 Why is O trying to make it easier for Muslims to fulfill zakat, yet has basically cut in half the amount one can give to charitable organizations (tax wise)?

Because he is ashamed of this country and wants to mold it in the image of socialist Europe, where everyone relies on a nanny state, wealth creation is depressed, and charitable giving is low.

Posted by: Y-not at June 04, 2009 11:34 AM (sey23)

"Contributions made directly to foreign organizations are not
deductible, except in the case of some Canadian organizations as
specified in an agreement with that country

If he fights to make donations to foreign orgs. tax deductible, he will have opened pandora's box. Does he also want to match dollar for dollar all the money illegals are sending back home?

Posted by: momma at June 04, 2009 11:37 AM (penCf)

44 Zakat, or alms is an obligation of all Muslims. As it says in the hadith "He who says he is a believer and helps not the orphan or the widowed is a liar." It's a strict religious obligation, but as Islam has no real priestly authorities it's nearly impossible to enforce. ( Imams, sheiks, mullahs are clerics, not priests, an important distinction that renders many obligations, theoretically, impossible to enforce, not that they don't try and succeed, but that's another matter.) Also, strictly speaking, under sharia, Muslims operate under a nearly medieval system of anti-usury laws, preventing loans at interest and many other modern common financial arrangements. In medieval times, Muslims (and Christians) got around these by having plenty of Jews on hand to do that kind of thing. That old model doesn't work anymore for obvious reasons. A lot of Muslims ignore these financial restrictions today, but for a faithful Muslim, trying to live up to them can be as hard as trying to be strictly orthodox kosher Jew and adhere to all the dietary laws. The main way to get around this is to establish a waqf. A waqf is any charitable foundation, usually religious in nature. Most of us would recognize these as being comparable to church boards and community centers but there are many kinds of waqfs that exist purely to manage the finances of Muslims in accordance with Muslim law. Members who 'donate' often benefit from the proceeds of said waqf's in the same way we might from a mutual fund, savings bond, or share in a company. It's astonishingly complicated. To outsiders it can seem like a shell game or utter semantics, but it's no different than a log of the machinations employed by Hasedic Jews to ensure ritual purity. In some of these cases, this 'zakat' or waqfs are actually just plain old investments in different forms and they probably shouldn't get exemptions. Others should clearly, and complicating the matter is that many waqfs operate both as financial institutions AND charitable institutions so how do you separate out the charitable money from that this is just invested? Both of which might be called "zakat." I don't pretend to understand it completely but it makes Leviticus look like the golden rule it's so complicated.

Obama's right to acknowledge we need to sort it out for their benefit. For example, a tax on kosher goods would be clearly discriminatory to devout Jews, since it affects their religious lifestyle, but a tax on a food that happens to be kosher, like lox, wouldn't necessarily be discriminatory, but it could be if large amounts of Jews disproportionately used it. Or what about a stricter regulation on kosher production facilities? That would de discriminatory too. A lot of similar issues are happening with traditional Islamic finances and no one has sorted it out.

That said, while I think it is a legitimate issue, I don't know any Muslims who are seriously kibbitzing about it. They just move finances to Muslim countries that are stable and follow all the rules. Frankly, I think he is bringin it up as a phony form of "balance" to show how America is discriminatory. You kill gheys, we won't let you claim your zakat on your 1040, so you see, we really are the same. It's another way of pissing on America while abroad.

Posted by: Travis at June 04, 2009 11:40 AM (AkCWc)

45 Gabe, we aren't snarking here. Why exactly are you absolutely certain that he's not talking about giving money to terrorist groups like Hamas?

Posted by: Woman who complained to John McCain that Obama is a muslim terrorist at June 04, 2009 11:41 AM (7h4DG)

46 Here's another article that may be of interest:
Contribute to a Foreign Charity and Get a Tax Deduction (Terrorist Traps for the Unwary)

OK, I gotta' leave the intertubes for a while and play with my puppy (no, you filthy minded morons, I mean a REAL collie puppy, not some euphemism for body parts!). This guy has me so depressed.

Posted by: Y-not at June 04, 2009 11:42 AM (sey23)

47 OT: but Ann Coulter is great today. Last couple of paragraphs flipping "pro-choicers" phrases back at them are a hoot.

Posted by: teej at June 04, 2009 11:44 AM (c459z)

48 Travis -
As I understand it, zakat requires 2.5% donation to advance the will of Allah. Why can't that be accomplished by donating to a U.S.-based mosque or muslim organization?
Catholics donate to the Church, but not to Rome directly (or if they do, they don't receive a tax-benefit). Same difference.
I see absolutely no need to accommodate Muslims differently than other religious groups.
Ok, now I really am gone.
By-eee!

Posted by: Y-not at June 04, 2009 11:44 AM (sey23)

49 @Y-not,

Thanks for the link. Charity Navigator seems to be straightforward and analytical. This is useful stuff.

Posted by: NJconservative at June 04, 2009 11:46 AM (/Ywwg)

OK, I gotta' leave the intertubes for a while and play with my puppy (no, you filthy minded morons, I mean a REAL collie puppy, not some euphemism for body parts!). This guy has me so depressed

Sick freak. Probably a furry too.

Posted by: Yiffariffic at June 04, 2009 11:48 AM (W0B71)

51 Only got a second so forgive me if this was already posted: U.S. law makes it illegal to give money to organization that support terrorism - essentially any Muslim charity. In essence, we need to come more into line with Muslim definitions for charities, in other words, any organization committed to the murder of Jews and the destruction of Israel needs to be reclassified as a legitimate charity.

Posted by: The Hussein is now the best part at June 04, 2009 11:50 AM (RkRxq)

Now the Jews are protesting. Took them long enough I say.

http://tinyurl.com/r3ex6q

This quote gave me chills:

Esther Pollard followed, telling the crowd that her message to the US president was that "your problem isn't with Prime Minister Netanyahu, nor is it with the People of Israel. Your problem, Mr. President, is with the almighty God of Israel!"

Posted by: momma at June 04, 2009 11:51 AM (penCf)

Yes, I also assumed that he was talking about a current U.S. law that prohibits giving money to terrorists being thrown under the Justice Depart bus. I guess well will see when people who have been charged have the cases dropped even after they are convicted.

Posted by: Vic at June 04, 2009 11:55 AM (BYokb)

54 Here's what I don't get, are Muslims unwilling to give zakat if they don't get a tax deduction?

Any restrictions wouldn't make it more difficult to give their zakat (except for the aforementioned law against financially abetting terrorists)it just may be more difficult to financially benefit from giving zakat. However, I'm unaware of any koranic scripture that states that giving one's zakat is tax deductible (probably because zakat is the tax), so that can't possibly be the issue.

In this case, muslim americans are in the same boat as the rest of us, they can give money to whereever they want, but they don't necessarily get the deduction depending on who they give it to.

Posted by: Charles Johnson at June 04, 2009 11:55 AM (0NuHT)

55 #52 momma - People of Israel. Your problem, Mr. President, is with the almighty God of Israel!" -- That wasn't by any chance followed by a "and oh by the way, Yeshua and allah are not the same dudes" was it?

Posted by: teej at June 04, 2009 11:56 AM (c459z)

56 #54. Damnit forgot to change my name back.

Posted by: I have a Jalen Rose jersey at June 04, 2009 11:56 AM (0NuHT)

57 Just Barry blowing more smoke up peoples' asses.

Posted by: GarandFan at June 04, 2009 11:57 AM (C3okI)

58 The portion of 18 USC that make it a crime to give money to known terrorist organizations.

yep

Posted by: brak at June 04, 2009 11:57 AM (M5g8H)

59 Here's what I don't get, are Muslims unwilling to give zakat if they don't get a tax deduction?

Exactly! Are their religious obligations not met if their donations don't result in a tax write-off?

Posted by: CB at June 04, 2009 11:58 AM (9Wv2j)

60 Yeshua Yaweh and allah - there FIFM

Posted by: teej at June 04, 2009 11:59 AM (c459z)

61 Wait, the Holy Land Foundation was a recognized charity before it was shut down for funneling money to terrorists, right? So, what happened to all the tax deductions that Muslims who donated there? Do they owe back taxes now?

Posted by: Ella at June 04, 2009 11:59 AM (huf8h)

62 it's a father and son thing

Posted by: teej at June 04, 2009 11:59 AM (c459z)

momma

The sad part of this is that Zero's treatment of Israel was so easily predictable. Apparrently, Most of the Jews who voted for him (a majority I believe) don't care about that.

Posted by: maddogg at June 04, 2009 12:01 PM (OlN4e)

I just looked this up and part of the zakat is that the giver absolutely must not profit from the "gift," which must be given to a muslim to count. Given that taking a tax deduction would be "profiting," Obama's statement makes no sense. The explanation I read was very specific on that point. There can be no gain by the giver whatsoever.

Like everyone else, his statements bother the crap out of me. He clearly prefers Islam to any other religion, which also happens to be the one that keeps having heads lopped off in its name, and denigrates all others. His own "church" in Chicago is one that most Christians would not be members of (sorry for the grammar).

And the hajib thing? Wear a scarf, I don't care. But the day you tell me I must wear one or be attacked on the streets is the day that I go postal.

Posted by: Bibliophile at June 04, 2009 12:01 PM (y5VNb)

I'm absolutely certain he's not talking about the criminal investigations into Islamic charities who gave money to terrorits as implied by AP

That was the only thing that came to my mind, as I mentioned in the other thread.

It would strike me that practically anything else would be unconstitutional.

So either he's making crap up out of whole cloth, or speaking to the fact that we shut all their damn charities down because they kept laundering cash to Hamas.

Posted by: Entropy at June 04, 2009 12:05 PM (m6c4H)

66 This man clearly puts his muslim sympathies ahead of country. He means to relax restrictions on the collection of funds for the Barbary pirate scum.

A scoundrel if I've ever seen one. I've a good mind to sail the fleet up the Potomac and bombard that cesspit of governmental ineptitude.

Concern for our enemies... from our leader... preposterous.

Posted by: Captain Stephen Decatur at June 04, 2009 12:05 PM (3ZjQd)

67 #63 The sad part of this is that Zero's treatment of Israel was so easily predictable. Apparrently, Most of the Jews who voted for him (a majority I believe) don't care about that. - and that is something I've never understood. Liberals/Dems. have always been pro-palestinian and yet....

Posted by: teej at June 04, 2009 12:05 PM (c459z)

Given that taking a tax deduction would be "profiting,"

Then don't take it. You don't get a tax deduction if you don't write off the donation.

Posted by: Entropy at June 04, 2009 12:07 PM (m6c4H)

Most Jews here in the States actually are embarassed because of their Irael. I'm a Catholic and have more respect for Israel and Her traditions than most Jews I know. Quite sad really.

But then I have also noticed that I have more respect for the Church, the Bible, the Lord, than most 'Sunday' worshippers and I have only gone to Mass a few times in the last few years. (Actually, that is the reason I stopped going.)

Posted by: momma at June 04, 2009 12:08 PM (penCf)

70 Irael=Israel. Sorry my left hand isn't working up to par today.

Posted by: momma at June 04, 2009 12:09 PM (penCf)

71 Maybe Rahm and the rest of Il Douche's bagmen have a pool going on regarding what's the most outlandish thing Preznit Caligula can say and not have the press call him on it. I'm guessing if he said that the sun rises in the west that Olberdumb would re-arrange his bedroom.

Posted by: Captain Hate at June 04, 2009 12:10 PM (Vlq0g)

72 Gawd I hope the Republicans can unite behind one sane candidate in 2012. Someone to get our federal budget under control and return prosperity (with our own, not borrowed money) to this country.

I think I've given Barry the benefit of the doubt on the religion thing, up until now. Pandering to Middle East nut cases removes the last doubt.

Posted by: El-Amin Chirag-ud-Din at June 04, 2009 12:10 PM (8XI4A)

http://tinyurl.com/p6krty

pic of poster Far right Israelis are hanging up.

Posted by: momma at June 04, 2009 12:11 PM (penCf)

74 #69 - But then I have also noticed that I have more respect for the Church, the Bible, the Lord, than most 'Sunday' worshippers and I have only gone to Mass a few times in the last few years. (Actually, that is the reason I stopped going.) - Not catholic momma but same here. Well that and I just got tired of doing my best to do things His way and getting nothing but "planted" for it. So I just keep treating people better than they treat me but the big guy can kiss my ......

Posted by: teej at June 04, 2009 12:12 PM (c459z)

Evidently the Zakat problem was just another lie. It seems that there is a legal tax exempt mehtod of giving Zakat that is easily found.

Link Here

If I could find this in just a few minutes I am sure someone attending a Mosque would be able to find one even easier. It has been my experience in attending various clubs and private organizations that I have been a member of that finding �charities� is certainly not a problem.

In fact, the opposite was true.

Posted by: Vic at June 04, 2009 12:13 PM (BYokb)

76 Oh SHIT! David Carradine (of Kung Fu and Kill Bill! fame) has been found dead.

BANGKOK (AP) -- Actor David Carradine, star of the 1970s TV series "Kung Fu" who also had a wide-ranging career in the movies, has been found dead in the Thai capital, Bangkok. A news report said he was found hanged in his hotel room and was believed to have committed suicide.

A spokesman for the U.S. Embassy, Michael Turner, confirmed the death of the 72-year-old actor. He said the embassy was informed by Thai authorities that Carradine died either late Wednesday or early Thursday, but he could not provide further details out of consideration for his family.

Posted by: Captain Stephen Decatur at June 04, 2009 12:14 PM (3ZjQd)

77 #76 Damn Cap'n Stephen, where you been all morning?

Posted by: teej at June 04, 2009 12:15 PM (c459z)

78 I've a good mind to sail the fleet up the Potomac and bombard that cesspit of governmental ineptitude.

I'd donate money for that, regardless of the tax consequences!!

Posted by: CB at June 04, 2009 12:17 PM (9Wv2j)

79 Gabe -

What Pres. Obama means is that he will personally work with American Muslim Clergy to persuade them to declare that contributions by Muslims to Obama-supported endeavors will "count" as meeting the requirements of Zakah.

This may include the money Muslims donate to Obama's campaign. Sure, they can't write it off, but Allah will take note of it and receive the prayers.

.

Posted by: BumperStickerist at June 04, 2009 12:17 PM (ruzrP)

Well, Gabriel, Obama is seeking to reduce the general deductibility of chartiable contribtuions (in addition to a whole bunch of other revenue raisers) as part of his tax overhaul. So, maybe he's seeking to exempt payments to Islamic terrorist organizations from the general charitable deduction limitations that he is seeking to impose.

Call it a 501(c)(u)(die) exemption.

Posted by: Nomennovum at June 04, 2009 12:18 PM (ixASG)

81 Geez. Y'know, my Christian sensibilities keep me from uttering the word "hate", but I really have the lowest of negative emotions for this ignorant, shallow, selfish, self-serving, self-abosrbed, narcissistic, cowardly, traitorous, weak-spined, arrogant, classless, uneducated, wimp.

Posted by: katya at June 04, 2009 12:19 PM (oRJZj)

When reading his speech, I knew I had heard some of those sentiments already. I finally found the link (took all morning):

In letter to Pres., CAIR says:

...the U.S. must champion "political and religious freedom, human rights, the growth and stabilization of democratic institutions, and respect for the rule of law for everyone, not just those we favor."

It claims, "for too long, we have claimed to be champions of freedom and democracy, while turning a blind eye to repression, occupation and authoritarian rule. We must hold every nation, even those we regard as allies, to a uniform standard of justice and equality. No other action will do more to restore America�s international reputation."

Emp. mine! So, now TOTUS is reading letters from CAIR?!

Posted by: momma at June 04, 2009 12:20 PM (penCf)

83 The president needs for to remove all impediments to Muslim ziggurat giving! How can we get our virgins if we can't give the ziggurats!

Posted by: Ali's House of Ziggurats at June 04, 2009 12:25 PM (hnq5i)

I'm really trying hard to give a shit about anything our Hate-America-First president says.

Nah, I got nothing.

Posted by: BackwardsBoy at June 04, 2009 12:26 PM (ZGhSv)

85 My dues to the NRA aren't tax-deductable, but I pay anyway because it's a good investment.

My advice to any Muslim that has an issue with our law prohibiting taking a tax-deduction for cash donated to organization that finances its adherents blowing themselves and anyone around them to pizza toppings? Move back to whatever goatcave in whatever nation in your Caliphate you want to, and donate to your heart's content.

Posted by: Keith Arnold at June 04, 2009 12:26 PM (Jdtsu)

86 One of you smart, tolerant morons (I just can't listen to his voice any more!) need to go through that trainwreck of a speech and record how many times he lied or stretched the truth (ie. the things he attributed to Muslims like the compass, printer, medicine, etc), the times he engaged in moral equivalency--yes the Holocaust happened but on the other hand you have Palestinians looking for a homeland, the number of times he said "I, me or my", and the number of programs he promised these nutbars that will cost American taxpayers. Unfortunately 52% of Americans will think this speech was a homerun, ignoring the actual content. Also, in other news, 3 U.S. soldiers were killed today in Afghanistan.

Posted by: runningrn at June 04, 2009 12:26 PM (aC/SY)

87 And what's the issue with Zagnut anyway? Are they halal?

Posted by: Keith Arnold at June 04, 2009 12:26 PM (Jdtsu)

88 For those interested here is the IRS' 2008 guide to charitable contributions.

MY guess as to what the big 0 meant? You'll see that on page 6 you can only get a $10,000 deductions if you're a sanctioned whaling captain certified by the Alaskan Eskimo Whaling Commission.

Clearly, this is that idiot Palin's fault for discriminating against Muslim whalers.

Posted by: I have a Jalen Rose jersey at June 04, 2009 12:28 PM (0NuHT)

89 Captain Stephen Decatur: BANGKOK (AP) -- Actor David Carradine, star of the 1970s TV series "Kung Fu" who also had a wide-ranging career in the movies, has been found dead in the Thai capital, Bangkok. A news report said he was found hanged in his hotel room and was believed to have committed suicide.

When I read Fox News' first posting of this story, it read something to the effect of, "Police found Carradine hung in his hotel room." I was thinking, "Dayum - I'd like to be found hung anywhere - and why were the cops doing a trouser check?"

/They've since changed the text. Wish I'd thought of getting a screenshot.

Posted by: Ali's House of Ziggurats at June 04, 2009 12:30 PM (hnq5i)

90 Forgot the link. http://tinyurl.com/dxt7z

Posted by: I have a Jalen Rose jersey at June 04, 2009 12:30 PM (0NuHT)

91 I'm SO sockpuppet challenged, like a guy who just can't learn to waterski.

Posted by: Jazz at June 04, 2009 12:31 PM (hnq5i)

One of you smart, tolerant morons (I just can't listen to his voice any more!) need to go through that trainwreck of a speech and record how many times he lied or stretched the truth

I already did that this morning on an earlier thread. After the first paragraph which was standard political bla bla there was nothing but lies and false apologies. Every paragraph was a lie or false history.

Posted by: Vic at June 04, 2009 12:32 PM (BYokb)

When Catholics or Jews or other religious denominations build and support charitable institutions they make same available to all races, creeds sexual orientations. This explains the dearth of Muslim hospitals and orphanages and shelters. Does anyone know if there are Muslim run hospitals in, say Dearborn , Michigan? I don't think taxes have anything to do with this. The Saladin Memorial Hospital .....any day now.

Posted by: Harp at June 04, 2009 12:33 PM (fROct)

94 Harp: Does anyone know if there are Muslim run hospitals in, say Dearborn , Michigan?

There are no Muslim-run hospitals in Dearborn, MI. There are a lot of halal restaurants, though.

Posted by: Jazz at June 04, 2009 12:42 PM (hnq5i)

95 In the Muslim world, it's zakat. In North Korea, it's zadog. The Joy of Cooking can help with both. The president needn't concern himself.

Posted by: km at June 04, 2009 01:06 PM (mrk0R)

96 (Translation): Donations to and from CAIR have been wrongly investigated ... So what if they fund terrorism in The States and abroad. Not to mention freezing known terrorist bank accounts ... I might have to have Congress bail them out ...

Posted by: drillanwr at June 04, 2009 01:12 PM (GkYyh)

97 Trouble Brewing for AIG and Federal Government; Challenge of AIG Bailout Allowed to ProceedMay 27, 2009

ANN ARBOR, MI � Proclaiming that times of crisis do not justify departure from the Constitution, Federal District Court Judge Lawrence P. Zatkoff allowed the lawsuit against Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and the Federal Reserve Board challenging the AIG bailout to proceed. The lawsuit was filed last December by the Thomas More Law Center, a national public interest law firm based in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and attorney David Yerushalmi, an expert in security transactions and Shariah-compliant financing.

In his well-written and detailed analysis issued yesterday, Judge Zatkoff denied the request by the Obama administration�s Department of Justice to dismiss the lawsuit. The request was filed on behalf of Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner and the Federal Reserve Board � the named defendants in the case. In his ruling, the judge held that the lawsuit sufficiently alleged a federal constitutional challenge to the use of taxpayer money to fund AIG�s Islamic religious activities.

Richard Thompson, President and Chief Counsel of the Thomas More Law Center, commented, �It is outrageous that AIG has been using taxpayer money to promote Islam and Shariah law, which potentially provides support for terrorist activities aimed at killing Americans. Shariah law is the same law championed by Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban. It is the same law that prompted the 9/11 terrorist attacks on our soil that killed thousands of innocent Americans. We won this skirmish. But the war to stop the federal government from funding Islam and Shariah-compliant financing is far from over.�

In its request to dismiss the lawsuit, the DOJ argued that the plaintiff in the case, Kevin Murray, who is a former Marine and a federal taxpayer, lacked standing to bring the action. And even if he did have standing, DOJ argued that the use of the bailout money to fund AIG�s operations did not violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment. The court disagreed, noting, in relevant part, the following:

In this case, the fact that AIG is largely a secular entity is not dispositive: The question in an as-applied challenge is not whether the entity is of a religious character, but how it spends its grant. The circumstances of this case are historic, and the pressure upon the government to navigate this financial crisis is unfathomable. Times of crisis, however, do not justify departure from the Constitution. In this case, the United States government has a majority interest in AIG. AIG utilizes consolidated financing whereby all funds flow through a single port to support all of its activities, including Sharia-compliant financing. Pursuant to the EESA, the government has injected AIG with tens of billions of dollars, without restricting or tracking how this considerable sum of money is spent. At least two of AIG�s subsidiary companies practice Sharia-compliant financing, one of which was unveiled after the influx of government cash. After using the $40 billion from the government to pay down the $85 billion credit facility, the credit facility retained $60 billion in available credit, suggesting that AIG did not use all $40 billion consistent with its press release. Finally, after the government acquired a majority interest in AIG and contributed substantial funds to AIG for operational purposes, the government co-sponsored a forum entitled �Islamic Finance 101.� These facts, taken together, raise a question of whether the government�s involvement with AIG has created the effect of promoting religion and sufficiently raise Plaintiff�s claim beyond the speculative level, warranting dismissal inappropriate at this stage in the proceedings.

Click here to read Judge Zatkoff�s entire ruling.

The lawsuit, which was filed in December of last year in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Michigan, is a constitutional challenge to that portion of the �Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008� (EESA) that appropriated $40 billion in taxpayer money to fund and financially support the federal government�s majority ownership interest in AIG, which engages in Shariah-based Islamic religious activities that are anti-American, anti-Christian, anti-Jewish.

According to the lawsuit, �The use of these taxpayer funds to approve, promote, endorse, support, and fund these Shariah-based Islamic religious activities violates the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution.�

The lawsuit was brought on behalf of Murray, a former Marine who served honorably in harm�s way in Iraq to defend our country against Islamic terrorists. Murray objects to being forced as a taxpayer to contribute to the propagation of Islamic beliefs and practices predicated upon Shariah law, which is hostile to his Christian religion. He is being represented by Thomas More Law Center Trial Counsel Robert Muise and by David Yerushalmi, an associated attorney who is an expert in Shariah law and Shariah-compliant financing, as well as general counsel to the Center for Security Policy.

According to the lawsuit, through the use of taxpayer funds, the federal government acquired a majority ownership interest (nearly 80%) in AIG, and as part of the bailout, Congress appropriated and expended an additional $40 billion of taxpayer money to fund and financially support AIG and its financial activities. AIG, which is now a government owned company, engages in Shariah-compliant financing which subjects certain financial activities, including investments, to the dictates of Islamic law and the Islamic religion. This specifically includes any profits or interest obtained through such financial activities. AIG itself describes �Sharia� as �Islamic law based on the Quran and the teachings of the Prophet [Mohammed].�

With the aid of taxpayer funds provided by Congress, AIG employs a �Shariah Supervisory Committee,� which is comprised of the following members: Sheikh Nizam Yaquby from Bahrain, Dr. Mohammed Ali Elgari from Saudi Arabia, and Dr. Muhammed Imran Ashraf Usmani from Pakistan. Dr. Usmani is the son, student, and dedicated disciple of Mufti Taqi Usmani, who is the leading Shariah authority for Shariah-compliant finance in the world and the author of a book translated into English in 1999 that includes an entire chapter dedicated to explaining why a Western Muslim must engage in violent jihad against his own country or government. According to AIG, the role of its Shariah authority �is to review our operations, supervise its development of Islamic products, and determine Shariah compliance of these products and our investments.�

An important element of Shariah-compliant financing is a form of obligatory charitable contribution called zakat, which is a religious tax for assisting those that �struggle [jihad] for Allah.� The amount of this tax is between 2.5% and 20%, depending upon the source of the wealth. The zakat religious tax is used to financially support Islamic �charities,� some of which have ties to terrorist organizations that are hostile to the United States and all other �infidels,� which includes Christians and Jews.

The Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development, an example of an Islamic �charity� that qualifies for receipt of the zakat, was recently convicted by a federal jury for providing millions of dollars to Islamic terrorist organizations. As a direct consequence of the taxpayer funds appropriated and expended to purchase and financially support AIG, the federal government is now the owner of a corporation engaged in the business of collecting religious taxes to fund interests adverse to the United States, Christians, Jews, and all other �infidels� under Islamic law.

The Thomas More Law Center defends and promotes America�s Christian heritage and moral values, including the religious freedom of Christians, time-honored family values, and the sanctity of human life. It supports a strong national defense and an independent and sovereign United States of America. The Law Center accomplishes its mission through litigation, education, and related activities. It does not charge for its services. The Law Center is supported by contributions from individuals, corporations and foundations, and is recognized by the IRS as a section 501(c)(3) organization. You may reach the Thomas More Law Center at (734) 827-2001 or visit our web

Posted by: Dick at June 04, 2009 01:13 PM (d2Wup)

98 Probably whom you can give charity to, what with various Muslim charities under investigation or shut down.

Posted by: Mikey NTH at June 04, 2009 01:14 PM (TUWci)

Dick

The link will do fine

http://tinyurl.com/oltaq6

Posted by: Vic at June 04, 2009 01:22 PM (BYokb)

100 Ok, I'm back... pup is sleeping.

I still think Obama was referring to the fact that the tax code doesn't allow for tax benefits for gifts to foreign-based charities, but I wanted to address Travis' post:

"A waqf is any charitable foundation, usually religious in nature. Most of us would recognize these as being comparable to church boards and community centers but there are many kinds of waqfs that exist purely to manage the finances of Muslims in accordance with Muslim law. Members who 'donate' often benefit from the proceeds of said waqf's in the same way we might from a mutual fund, savings bond, or share in a company. It's astonishingly complicated. To outsiders it can seem like a shell game or utter semantics, but it's no different than a log of the machinations employed by Hasedic Jews to ensure ritual purity. In some of these cases, this 'zakat' or waqfs are actually just plain old investments in different forms and they probably shouldn't get exemptions. Others should clearly, and complicating the matter is that many waqfs operate both as financial institutions AND charitable institutions so how do you separate out the charitable money from that this is just invested? Both of which might be called "zakat." I don't pretend to understand it completely but it makes Leviticus look like the golden rule it's so complicated.

Obama's right to acknowledge we need to sort it out for their benefit."

Current tax laws already allow for some tax benefits for gifts that yield income to the donor, so I don't think that what you describe can be the "problem" (in O's mind). Charitable gift annuities provide current tax benefits to the donor.

Of course, if either the Prez or Veep had made a habit of making charitable gifts on a level coincident to their income-levels and wealth, he'd know that first-hand... Instead, he'd rather paint the wealthy in this country, who are extremely generous particularly as compared to the Euros he admires so much, as blood-sucking evil-doers.

Jerkface.

Nope... my mood's still bad. Puppy time didn't do it. Time to up the ante and pull out the Ben and Jerry's.

Posted by: Y-not at June 04, 2009 01:27 PM (sey23)

101 ps: That "jerkface" was directed at Fearless Reader, not Travis.

Posted by: Y-not at June 04, 2009 01:28 PM (sey23)

102 Zakat is the 2 1/2 to 10 % each devout Muslim must donate to an Islamic government or when living among non-Islamic people, to Islamic organiztions for communal purposes such as Jihad. At the present time, I don't think the tax code permits deductions for zakat/jihad so Hussein will fix this. How long before Hussein becomes a born-again Muslim?

Posted by: Big Ben at June 04, 2009 01:32 PM (pCw0W)

103 93."When Catholics or Jews or other religious denominations build and support charitable institutions they make same available to all races, creeds sexual orientations. This explains the dearth of Muslim hospitals and orphanages and shelters. Does anyone know if there are Muslim run hospitals in, say Dearborn , Michigan? I don't think taxes have anything to do with this. The Saladin Memorial Hospital .....any day now." That may be the name of all hospitals under Hussein's health care; I can see the advertising now; Welcome to Saladin Akhbar hospital, where our physicians are trained to perform merciful jihad on all dhimmis,

Posted by: Big Ben at June 04, 2009 01:43 PM (pCw0W)

104 Islamic charities help poor, destitute, orphan nuclear scientists, and the families of suicide bombers. What can you Christian dogs bragg about?

Posted by: T DUB at June 04, 2009 02:29 PM (B8gqF)

105 A few words from wiki on Zakat:

It is the duty of an Islamic state not just to collect zakat but to distribute it fairly as well.

Apparently we've progressed from being a Muslim Country to an Islamic State overnight.

It is an obligation on Muslims to pay ¹/₄₀ (2.5%) of the wealth which they have had for a full lunar year.

That's much less than the 10% Christians typically tithe, and more in line with Barack's level of giving, so no wonder he's all for it. But why Muslims' need help doing this is beyond me.

Remember that Barack wanted to eliminate charitable deductions, but I guess that was just for infidels.

Posted by: danishova at June 04, 2009 02:55 PM (twzzy)

106

Muslims were giving zakat to a bunch of Muslim "charities" before Sep 11 that turned out to have a hand in terrorism. Some were front operations for terrorist groups. Others were legitimate charities who also gave some of their money to terrorist groups because, in Muslim eys, they are fighting the good fight to make the world submit to Allah. The FBI and Treasury department cracked down on all those charities, like they Holy Land charity, arresting some of their organizers. If you'll remember, even Zawahiri, Al Qaeda's No 2, came to America before Sep 11 trying to collect donations.

Now Muslims profess to be afraid to give zakat, a pillar of Islam, to any charity for fear that they will be put on The List, a figment of their imagination. They think that such contributions will be evidence against them that they are terrorists.

Posted by: Tantor at June 04, 2009 04:25 PM (SWvPS)

107 I'm absolutely certain he's not talking about the criminal investigations into Islamic charities

What on earth would possibly lead you to immediately dismiss that?

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Posted by: jju at June 04, 2009 09:49 PM (rxT7b)

110 Islamic loans are bullshit, too. They just include interest in the payments and pretend that they didn't."

"Here, I'll give you $200,000, you give me back $230,000 over 10 years, BUT THE DIFFERENCE IS NOT INTEREST!!!"

Just like HLF was a "charity" that gave money to the "poor and orphaned" so they could buy bombs.

Posted by: Merovign, Strong on His Mountain at June 04, 2009 09:56 PM (or0jG)

111 gee, the hardship, muslims can't send money directly to terrorist groups...at least on paper, and in fact what makes this even more absurd is that there are efforts on Facebook, Twitter, and Muslim websites using Paypal and similar money transfer systems to openly solicit money to Hamas under the guise of relief for Gaza...Hamas runs Gaza and is classified as a terrorist org...

The BBB, I believe, also created new guidelines to "certify" Islamic charities as being terror-free - so again, this is simply a game of pandering to Muslims.

Then there is the ACLU who recently boasted of having the govt requirement of checking all donations from individuals/orgs against the govt OFAC list - so now the ACLU can accept money from any terrorist group, primarily the ones they defend on a consistent basis...

Keep in mind all this outreach and extra effort for Muslims and they only constitute 1% of the U.S. population...by the time they reach 5%...well, use your imagination...

Posted by: Creeping Sharia at June 05, 2009 09:34 AM (pEORR)

112 March of Dimes, or Cancer research will take their money

ohhhhhhhh, forgot

muslims only help other muslims

my bad

Posted by: austin at June 05, 2009 02:36 PM (p6op4)

113 ...so your doctor is a muslim?

Islamic MEdical Association
http://www.imana.org/ethics.html

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