1 Never have and never will own a GM car.  Especially not now.

2 GM will be a money pit ala AMTRAK....only worse,much,much WORSE.

3 Schwinn is next.

Trust me.

4 I will never buy another GM or Chrysler again.
I currently own a Saturn, it is a good car, 38mpg.

5 GM and Crysler were killed by piss poor management. Having the government take over management is hardly an improvement. They are dead and gone. Play taps, its over.

6 Does my riding mower have to get 35 yards to a gal. too?

7 Oh well, the Gov't did so well with SS and Medicare.

8 5 The new management will make the old look like geniuses in comparison.

9 I never thought I'd see the day where the government owns 2 of the "Big 3", and nobody bats an eye.  "Too big to fail" will go down in history as one of the most sinister phrases ever uttered.

10

Isn't it reasonable to expect conservatives and libertarians to "boycott" both Obama Motors companies on moral and political grounds?  In fact, since the union makes good when Ford does well, I'm thinking they're on the list by association, as it were.

The only way socialism and the union in the US will be put in their proper place is an epic fail for Obama Motors.

11 I can't wait to buy a Lada Cadillac.

12 Too big to fail, and the Titanic is unsinkable. Phrases that beg disaster.

13

I will never buy another GM or Chrysler again.

You can add me to that list.  I have a Chevy now, which I'll keep until it dies since it's paid for.  But never again.

I'll go back to Mitsubishi.

14 "Choose your model SubCompact or Super-SubCompact.Choose any color you like....as long as it is black."

15 PRAVDA is laughing at us.PRAVDA!!

16

Next up, nationalizing the health care industry.

Welcome to the collective.

17 I was planning on replacing my old Camaro with one of the new Camaros, but I think an RX8 is looking mighty good.

18 So, do the execs get the GS pay grade, or does Obama keep appointing buddies to high-paying board positions? You choose which type of corruption kills your $30,000,000,000

19

Following that infusion, "the U.S. Treasury does not believe or anticipate that any additional assistance to GM will be required

 

Hahahaha, do they really expect us to believe that? The lying commies said the same thing diuring the first baliaout. It was done then to PREVENT bankruptcy. A lot of us said then that they needed bankruptcy in order to renegotiate those UAW contracts that was killing them. Instead the UAW held out because they knew Il Douche would reward them. Well, they were right, they got their bailout. Now we are in bankruptcy and Il Douche is going to give them another 30B dollars that we don’t have.

 

And on top of ALL of that they still have not fixed the underlying problems at GM. We will be back to bankruptcy again, and if the communists are still in power they will be singing the same damn tune hoping that a stupid and gullible public has forgotten. The new will not report it, and most of the stupid and gullible public WILL have forgotten it.

 

Welcome to the USSA and I repeat, soon that stupid and gullible public will be glad that they were able to find a stray dog for their next meal.

20 Let's see:

Healthcare is 17% of USGDP

Citi, the biggest "bank" is about to be nationalized

GM, the worlds largest automaker has been nationalized

No, calling Obama socialist would be extremist and push moderates away!

/sarc

21

Can't wait to see the list of campaign contributions from GM/Chrysler/UAW employees in the next election cycles.

Your taxes --> bailout automakers --> DNC/King Zero

22 People say they won't buy a GM but in the end I don't think anyone is going to have a choice.  As majority owner the government will make sure better cars are too expensive.  It's the old adage, "he who makes the rules wins the game."

Also, you WILL be paying $6/$7 a gallon eventually and ONLY GM will build some 1 cylinder crap-banger that you will be forced to purchase. 

23

Never have and never will own a GM car.  Especially not now.

 

I think that comrade Chairman Obama will make ownership of his new "green" cars mandatory for all of us.

24 I rode a hundred shares @36 bucks per share to Zero.

All hail Lord Obama!

25

I think that comrade Chairman Obama will make ownership of his new "green" cars mandatory for all of us.

Not gonna happen. "Change" will consume him. He will never gain that kind of power without a total takeover. And that will spell insurrection. We don't have 500 years of monarchy to condition us to one party rule as a lifestyle. Too many Bubas.

26 My favorite uncle, a Ford employee for 30+ years, passed away this summer. Great, hardworking American. The only comforting thing is that he didn't have to witness this crap. America is practically begging the Chinese not to bail on us while the Gov't continues to bail out all the companies that SHOULD go under.

My next car will be is F-250 Powerstroke, which punches a nice hole in Gaia while also honoring his memory. If those are banned, I would rather WALK than bail out our failure of a government.

27

14 "Choose your model SubCompact or Super-SubCompact.Choose any color you like....as long as it is black."

 

Nope, it'll be white.  Have to reflect Climate Change back into space, doncha know.

28 are we supposed to key Priuses now?

29 7 Oh well, the Gov't did so well with SS and Medicare.

Don't forget the Post Office....

22 People say they won't buy a GM but in the end I don't think anyone is going to have a choice. As majority owner the government will make sure better cars are too expensive. It's the old adage, "he who makes the rules wins the game."

Also, you WILL be paying $6/$7 a gallon eventually and ONLY GM will build some 1 cylinder crap-banger that you will be forced to purchase.

The day the democrat/socialists collapse is the day that the government owned enterprises will die as well. It may take another 20-30 years but it will happen. I would imagine China will be democratic before America is again.

30 Expect a 'rebate program/tax credit' from Gummint Motors to 'help get the company back on it's feet.'   Of course, the taxpayer has already purchased the equivalent of 1,000,000 high-priced cars with this latest bailout, so it will still be a ripoff, courtesy of Democrats and the UAW.

31 27
14 "Choose your model SubCompact or Super-SubCompact.Choose any color you like....as long as it is black."



Nope, it'll be white. Have to reflect Climate Change back into space, doncha know.

No, the new Obamobile will be 1/2 Black, 1/2 White

32 I have a stupid question (yes, yes, for a change, I know).  Let's say in 2010, 2012, whatever, there is a turn around in the composition of Congress.  Let's say that the government then attempts to divest its ownership stake in GM.  Who is going to buy it?  Seriously.  What happened to the bondholders is very very frightening.  What possible guarantee that anyone would believe is there that the sale wouldn't be rescinded in the future?  Would there be mandatory sell back provisions?  Who would buy the shares?  I'm trying to get my mind around this and I can't, probably because I'm refusing to accept this whole debacle. 

33
A gas tax is next. It works on many levels for Obama. It forces people to buy double-digit hp deathboxes from his company. It's a major source of tax dollars needed to pay for everything else he wants. And of course, it spreads the wealth (suburbanites will get butthurt).

OTOH, maybe OPEC won't take kindly to Obama getting skimming off the top, and they'll just cut production.

34 Wow, the union got more of a stake than the bondholders.  This is so wrong on so many levels.

35 Besides making all the rules (which GM and Chrysler will probably be exempt from following), how much is having every government/military contract worth?

It's seems that the US Government will have every reason to try and drive Ford under too, so they can eliminate competition and snap them up as well.

I think we should support Ford, Union or not. I can't bring myself to buy a Japanese car, anyway. Both of my grandpas were pacific vets, and too much rubbed off on me.

36

My question is, will a R presidential candidate have the sac to say, if elected they would unwind the government ownership toot sweet?  Looks like Mitt is positioning himself that way. 

37

14 "Choose your model SubCompact or Super-SubCompact.Choose any color you like....as long as it is black."



Nope, it'll be white. Have to reflect Climate Change back into space, doncha know.

No, the new Obamobile will be 1/2 Black, 1/2 White

You're both wrong,  it will look exactly like THIS.

38 I think that comrade Chairman Obama will make ownership of his new "green" cars mandatory for all of us.

I truly think this is part of Barry's endgame:  Now he controls the means of production, so they will put out the electric car that the Greenies demand, regardless of what the engineers and beancounters think, so it's another lefty constituency bought off.

39 Time to buy Toyota, or Honda. Screw the UAW.  Send your automotive dollars to real American workers who work.

40

I'm willing to give 100% of the Gov't shares of GM to the UAW in exchange for cutting the chord.  Let the UAW try to resurrect what they have killed.  When the fail, let them fail alone.

I just don't want to see another cent of my money going to these parasites.

 

41

The last GM product I owned was a used truck. Before that is was a used Corvair. Those are the only two GM products I have ever owned. I have also owned 2 Toyotas, 2 Ford trucks, and 8 Ford cars. One of the Toyotas was a dog and I have had the best luck mechanical-wise from the Fords. I have also owned 4 Honda motorcycles which were my first means of motorized transportation.

 

The sorriest POS I had was the Corvair. It left me stranded on the side of the road on Interstate 5 about 50 miles outside of L.A. when heading to San Diego. (On a damn July 4^th weekend!).

42 The government can not give them a life preserver of cash large enough to keep the  company from drowning itself. The taxpayer money is being used to promote/cover up bad decisions. That means the negative cash flow of their operations is much worse now than if the company had started to make the hard decisions a year ago. The irony in all of this is the company will now sink faster than if they had not been receiving billions in taxpayer money. All they have bought with the billions spent are a some non-value adding jobs another 1-2 years of employment. Very wasteful and very, very not green.

43 32 I have a stupid question (yes, yes, for a change, I know). Let's say in 2010, 2012, whatever, there is a turn around in the composition of Congress. Let's say that the government then attempts to divest its ownership stake in GM. Who is going to buy it? Seriously. What happened to the bondholders is very very frightening. What possible guarantee that anyone would believe is there that the sale wouldn't be rescinded in the future? Would there be mandatory sell back provisions? Who would buy the shares? I'm trying to get my mind around this and I can't, probably because I'm refusing to accept this whole debacle.


It will implode on itself. Eventually the democrats will lose control and the government will bail on GM. It will die an agonizing death. You can only be brought back from the dead a few times before the grim reaper gets his payback.

44

OT:

My agent tells me they want me to play Lee Iacocca in a new movie about the death of the U.S. auto industry.

45 You know what they say. If you like how the post office and the DMV are run, you'll love how the government runs this, too.

46 This business wil get out of hand and we'll be lucky to live through it.

47

32 I have a stupid question (yes, yes, for a change, I know).  Let's say in 2010, 2012, whatever, there is a turn around in the composition of Congress.  Let's say that the government then attempts to divest its ownership stake in GM.  Who is going to buy it?  Seriously.  What happened to the bondholders is very very frightening.  What possible guarantee that anyone would believe is there that the sale wouldn't be rescinded in the future?  Would there be mandatory sell back provisions?  Who would buy the shares?  I'm trying to get my mind around this and I can't, probably because I'm refusing to accept this whole debacle. 

It is pointless to worry about who will have custody when the child is dead.

48

When you elect a moron like Barry, who has no fucking idea about anything about US business history, this is what you get.

And it will be a long time before people wonder why they are all driving SMART cars.

"Oh, I was watching that show and all of a sudden I had a letter in the mail that told me to buy a car."

49 You can only be brought back from the dead a few times before the grim reaper gets his payback.
Posted by: izoneguy at June 01, 2009 10:14 AM (hpOMe)

What, you mean like the US Taxpayers?

50

Not bad for someone who said he didn't want to run a car company. How many does he run now? Two?

I firmly believe they would've gone under anyway. Between management's multi-bazillion dollar compensation packages and the unions demands for more pay for less work, they did something that we haven't witnessed in a long while.

They priced themselves out of the market.

 

51 Don't you worry, someone is profting from those billions.  My guess, friends of Obama. 

52 Gives a whole new meaning to the statement (often incorrectly quoted) by Charlie Wilson of "What's good for GM is good for the country."  Another notch in the bedpost for the Obama Badministration - raping and turning out for prostitution such a bullwark of our once great country.  More honor would have been found in an honest bankruptcy - like burning a flag at the end of its life.  Gone, but with some shred of dignity.

53 I'll probably end up buying another F150 and another motorcycle of some description.

The day my current Tahoe shits the bed, is the last day I own a GM product.

Fuck you, you Jug Eared Fucker.

54

My agent tells me they want me to play Lee Iacocca in a new movie about the death of the U.S. auto industry.

With Tyne Daley as the Willmington, Delaware Assembly Plant.

55 All they have bought with the billions spent are a some non-value adding jobs another 1-2 years of employment. Very wasteful and very, very not green.

That is all Obama needs, another 18 months of UAW cash until 2010.

56 Ýòè àâòîìîáèëè - áàðàõëî...Translated...These cars are junk!

57 Ford is probably in trouble.  Consider:  They're now directly competing with the US government.  And when they have to negotiate a labor contract, they'll be negotiating with the UAW--i.e., the majority owners of another competitor (Chrysler).

How the hell is THAT going to work?

Ford will either be driven out of business or--more likely--brought to heel and forced to join the collective.

And people will buy the new GM/Chrysler green putt-putt cars--when there's no other choice.  Or, more accurately, when the incentives to buy them (and the penalties for buying anything else) become too great.

And it'll be presented as the patriotic choice.  What, don't you care about America?  Unity!  Not to mention saving Gaia.

I pray to God we can somehow stop all this, but I fear we can't.

58

I have a stupid question (yes, yes, for a change, I know). Let's say in 2010, 2012, whatever, there is a turn around in the composition of Congress

 

It will be truly bankrupt and broken up in a different chapter before 2010. This 30B is just another payoff to the unions. IOW there will be no GM or Chrysler by the time the next election occurs.

 

There may not be a USA or a "next election" as well.

59 WASF

60 The last time I had a postive impression of a GM car was about 1974.  The positive impression:  the air conditioning in my dad's company car seemed to be a lot better than in our Plymouth Fury stationwagon.  MUCH COLDER.

I heard on Hugh Hewitt's show last week that, supposedly, Frank Lutz is/was a genius, but that he had left GMC.  A genius?  All I know is that Detroit, both car wise, and otherwise, has always struck me as a place populated by concentric circles of dull people.  At last in my mind, the Big Three have always occupied a pigeon hole adjacent to the pigeon hole in which the tabacco companies dwell.  OK, maybe Ford was in a somewhat better pigeon hole, but not much better.

I'm surprise GM didn't die many years ago...

61

"Buy Government Motors vehicles.  Good for the environment and OK for you."

Message brought to you by the President of Government Motors (and the U.S. of course).

 

(apologies Judge Dread)

62

I have a stupid question (yes, yes, for a change, I know).  Let's say in 2010, 2012, whatever, there is a turn around in the composition of Congress.  Let's say that the government then attempts to divest its ownership stake in GM.  Who is going to buy it?  Seriously.  What happened to the bondholders is very very frightening.  What possible guarantee that anyone would believe is there that the sale wouldn't be rescinded in the future?  Would there be mandatory sell back provisions?  Who would buy the shares?  I'm trying to get my mind around this and I can't, probably because I'm refusing to accept this whole debacle. 

I think the problem is a little deeper.  Why limit this to just the auto industry?  Obama has, with barely a wimper of protest, invalidated the priniciple of contract law and substituted it with government fiat (pun intended).

The system worked before because their were readily understood rules.  Bond holders would often take larger risks precisely because they knew where they stood in the pecking order should there be a bankruptcy.  Now, there are no rules.  Why would you feel safe being a bond holder in any company?

63 Ford is the one getting screwed.  They have to compete against two government subsidized competitors in addition to having insiders (UAW) willing to screw them.  I hope they can survive. 

64 (forgive me for the typos in the last post:  at least in my mind...surprised...)

65

When you elect a moron like Barry, who has no fucking idea about anything about US business

Are you kidding me?  Barry ran a campaign for almost two years.  How much executive experience do you think someone needs to be president?

66

If I were any other car company I would be filing charges under the rico statute.

 

The Federal Gov't can't impose CAFE type restrictions if they are a car manufacturer as well.

 

FWIW - I think the GM Bondholders could have done the same thing once Obi-one threatened the Chrysler investors.

 

67

Ford's ace in the hole has always been the F-150.

The countdown has begun on the issuance of a regulation that will kill it.

Mondays make me extremely cynical.

68
Obama has, with barely a wimper of protest, invalidated the priniciple of contract law and substituted it with government fiat (pun intended).

Yup. It alone simultaneously dwarfs all of Bush's "power grabs," and destroys the contractual framework that the government was entrusted to protect.

And it seems to be just the beginning.

69 Ugh.

I'm wishing more and more that I'd bought a Honda Accord the last time I went car-shopping instead of a Saturn Aura, even though I'm actually happy with the car itself.


I just wish I wasn't stuck paying money to GMAC for my notes and about to be SOL when it comes to dealer maintenance on my car.  (The local Saturn dealer is also a Hummer dealer, so they're totally screwed.)

70

"Buy Government Motors vehicles.  Good for the environment and OK good enough for you."

71 And it seems to be just the beginning.

You ain't seen nothin' yet!

72

My GM and Chrysler cars: 1) 1963 Valiant, a $200 honey mopar that blew up after thermostat replaced. 2) $150 Deuce-and-a-Quarter, lots of fun but all the power accessories died one by one; I drove it in the demo derby at the county fair. 3) $500 D-100 pickup, a wretched piece of shit; never again! 4) Brand new made-in-Canada 1994 Metro xFi (which is actually a relabeled Suzuki): fun to drive, fabulous fuel efficiency, death trap; dealer folded, couldn't get it serviced properly, sold it to a gearhead who is still driving it with 300K on the odometer.

Current (and probably next) car: Accent hatchback; excellent dealer service and warranty, acceptable fuel efficiency.

73 I cannot bring myself to buy a Honda car. Tantamount to laying my nads on a tree stump and lopping them off with a dull hatchet. In fact, worse.

74 Who is going to buy GM or Chrysler cars now?

75 74 Who is going to buy GM or Chrysler cars now?

UAW workers who get them for $15,000 off the sticker price.

Outside that?  Not many people.

76 Government Motors: The Engine that Drives the Unions

It'll remain an economic black hole existing only to buy votes from labor and persisting only because 1) good money will follow bad and 2) the entity that subsidizes its losses can also penalize in a non-competitive manner other auto companies.

Government Motors cars shouldn't be bought on principle.

77 And people will buy the new GM/Chrysler green putt-putt cars--when there's no other choice.  Or, more accurately, when the incentives to buy them (and the penalties for buying anything else) become too great.

The only place I'd want to be in the automobile industry right now is the used car business. They'll still be open after The One goes after the other OEMs. Used car dealers cater to the poor & lower middle class, so they'll be the last ones nationalized.

78

Yup. It alone simultaneously dwarfs all of Bush's "power grabs," and destroys the contractual framework that the government was entrusted to protect.

 

Yeah, Bush and Cheney were (in the media and left's mind) destroying the Constitution on a daily basis. Yet Barry is in actual violation of the 5th Amendment and they turn their heads and look the other way.

79 I think that comrade Chairman Obama will make ownership of his new "green" cars mandatory for all of us.

The correct term is "compulsory".  Learn it.  Live it.  Love it.

80 Ford needs the Mossad as protection against the pressure they are going to feel.

They need an army of lawyers and need to out thug this group of uber thugs.

BUY FORD....

81 Who is going to buy GM or Chrysler cars now?

UAW workers who get them for $15,000 off the sticker price.

Outside that?  Not many people.

Not many individuals, true, but you can expect that GM/Chrysler cars will be mandated for fleet purchases (corporate cars, state/local governments, rental fleets etc.).

82 Isn't there a difference between shareholders and bondholders?  I think it's the shareholders that are getting the raw deal here.  The bondholders (at least the big ones), the UAW and parts of Canada are getting some of that 50 billion or whatever the amount was and all should come out okay after the toxic (old) part of GM is liquidated.  The shareholders get nothing.  All of this to "protect" jobs and manipulate the stock market?!  I don't admit to understanding bankrupcies, economics, etc... but if this doesn't sound right to me, how about the scholarly elites? 

83

... but if this doesn't sound right to me, how about the scholarly elites? 

 

I’m not an elite but shareholders will get what ever their stock is worth. My understanding is that it is now worth 75 cents a share.

84

Now he is on TV again, you guessed it blaming Bush.

85 Yeah, Bush and Cheney were (in the media and left's mind) destroying the Constitution on a daily basis. Yet Barry is in actual violation of the 5th Amendment and they turn their heads and look the other way.

Just like voter intimidation, destroying the Constitution is now OK, as long as the right people are doing it.

Did I say "destroying"?  Sorry.  I meant "improving".

The US Constitution:  Now with 100% more awesomeness!  And skittles.

86 I'm still not quite clear on how this whole thing with the UAW negotiating with itself is supposed to work.

87 I really hate this man. Everything that comes out us my mouth is I decided this, I decided that.  How did we survive so long without his decisions?

88 Now he is on TV again, you guessed it blaming Bush.

You know, it's true that Bush started this with the initial bailout bonanza last fall.

But I bet he never intended for the government to own 75% of GM.

As I've said more than once recently:  There's crazy, and then there's batshit crazy.

89 "I think it's the shareholders that are getting the raw deal here."  No, common stockholders stand last in line in bankruptcy, after bondholders and preferred stock holders.  That's as it has always been, and something stock investors should always keep in mind.

90 I'm still not quite clear on how this whole thing with the UAW negotiating with itself is supposed to work.

UAW (labor wing):  "Here are our demands."

UAW (ownership wing):  "Looks great!  Where do we sign?"

91

Dems running ads stating that Cong. Pubs, turned down $$ or voted no on stimulus.  Amazing!

http://preview.tinyurl.com/ku349a

or

http://tinyurl.com/ku349a

They GOP needs to run ads with O's speech to Columbus policemen stating that the stimulus saved their jobs.  Then run a clip of Mayor Coleman stating that without an income tax raise (on ballot) then tons of police and ire will be laid off.

92 Yeah, GM is now the AMTRAK of the auto world.

93 How did Canada get in on this?

My tax dollars get to bail out some stinking ice humper?

94 Via Michelle Malkin:

"It is not every 31-year-old who, in a first government job, finds himself dismantling General Motors and rewriting the rules of American capitalism.

"But that, in short, is the job description for Brian Deese, a not-quite graduate of Yale Law School who had never set foot in an automotive assembly plant until he took on his nearly unseen role in remaking the American automotive industry.

So how do we get off this ride?

Unbelievable. Wait. Check that. Make that "typical." Maybe we can get a wannabe teen poet to overhaul Medicare/Medicaid.

95 Trish, it's complicated and most shareholders shorted their shares and could see this coming.  The bondholders were the one who stepped in to help and the ones who thought they were getting a great all American stock for their pension funds, etc.

96

I really don't understand how the UAW gets to own hal the company?  Why?  How does that work?  Did the UAW own half the bonds/ debt/ whatever?

Please explain in simple terminology.  I get numbers but complicated wording Fu%*s me up, and I'm too tired to use the dictionary today.

97 let's pool our hobo rollin funds and buy Hummer from Govt Motors..

this way we will have tanks when it is Mad Max Land....

98

“we are investing in this Auto company because we “inherited this financial crisis”.  This is like GM is failing because the housing industry went down.

 

Bush’s fault again.

Also lying when he says there will be a "private BOD".

99

93 How did Canada get in on this?

My tax dollars get to bail out some stinking ice humper?

Some Chevy's are built in Canada, there are plants there.  My Equinox was made in Ontario.  That's right, most Japanese cars are more American than my Chevy.

100 He reminded everyone that if you want to buy a GM car, not to worry, he's backing up the warranties.  So everyone being hurt by this is "making a sacrifice for the next generation"  (just not the dealerships who were 'chose')

101 I love how, despite being educated at some of the finest universities in the world, nearly all Democrats (and some so-called Republicans) seemingly never attended an economics class, much less learned any principles of free market economics.

Guess there wasn't much time left over after taking all the Marxist courses.

http://trackacrat.com/2009/05/22/bankruptcy-is-expensive/

102 I have a Trailblazer and a Tahoe for my wife. No way in hell will  I let her, or my kids, get in one of Obama Motors small death traps that he has planned for the US.  Looks like I will be buying Japanese vehicles in the future.

103 Someone called it, hahahahaha. We will order a new fleet of federal cars to jump start GM. Ford is screwed.

104 Read this AM that Ford is going to up production in the 3Q to 110,000 cars and 350,000 trucks.  Total vehicles to be built by GM and Chrysler in that quarter?  0.

105

Please explain in simple terminology

The UAW had pension obligations due them by GM.  GM somehow magically decided to boost their position in the pecking order and give them stock to cover those obligations.

Shorter answer, Obama wanted it this way.

106 "74 Who is going to buy GM or Chrysler cars now?

Posted by: Kasper Hauser at June 01, 2009 10:38 AM (ZPwZl)"

He just said it, the government is buying a new fleet to jumpstart demand and he wants to reward you for turning your gas guzzler old fashioned auto.

107 "103 Someone called it, hahahahaha. We will order a new fleet of federal cars to jump start GM. Ford is screwed.

Posted by: Vic at June 01, 2009 11:05 AM (BYokb)"

not really, a lot of regular people will only buy ford now.

108 Economies do not fail. governments fail.  Obama has fucked up big time.  Does anyone believe this isn't intentional?

109

Like others I vow to never own another GM car, even though that is all I have driven my whole life.

I'm struck by the way Obama simply talks out his ass on this. He says he is accepting this bankruptcy because its unacceptable to have the taxpayers continue to fund them. What is the $50 billion all about?

110

 So everyone being hurt by this is "making a sacrifice for the next generation"

WHAT?

How does the guy avoid the lightning and/or the cerebral whiplash?  Yes, we're making a sacrifice of doubling the national debt in the next six years...for the next generation.

The English language is inadequate in the adjective department at the moment; we're way beyond ridiculous, absurd and Bidenian.

 

 

111 The Lightworker's plan to turn America into a Marxist kleptocracy is proceeding nicely, thanks.

Why not?  They ran the Soviet Union that way for years.

112 muffy: "not really, a lot of regular people will only buy ford now."

While true, the government will force federal agencies to purchase volumes of cars from itself using taxpayer (and Ford Corporation tax and other manufacturers' tax) monies. That remains an unfair competitive advantage for GovMo. There has to be some litigious angle for Ford et al. to protest this inherent conflict of interest. Well, there would be if law meant anything in the age of Obama.

113

How does a family of 5 or more travel around in one of those silly deathtraps? 

I remember when I was in high school living in southern Germany.  The Berlin Wall fell while we were stationed there.  As we travelled to Berlin to be apart of history, my dad told me how the East Germans got cars (so this may be distorted by both my memory and his story telling techniques ).  They had to apply to the government and were on some list for years and they didn't even get to pick the color!  I think he called them Trabies.  I guess that is what we have to look forward to.  I wonder if I put my kids on the list now, they will have cars in time for their own families.  Probably a bit of a reach, but maybe not. 

114 I STG, when an Obama speaks in a forest of newscritters, does anyone hear it?  All I hear anymore is blabbity blah, federal fleet of cars, blabbity, green jobs, blah blah, inherited, blabbity, inherited, blabbity, inherited, blabbity blabbity blah.  One day it's going to wind things up with a big ol' BOO at the end, with somthing more nullifying to net neutrality or the Second Amendment.  Or the First.  Has it only taken less than four months to get this far down the rabbit hole? 

115 #29- GM will NOT be the only ones with small, crappy cars- ChryCo / FIAT will also have them.

Gov't plan: 

1.  Get ahold of auto manufacturing.  Take over with unions.  Make them sell small Fiat's in the US.

2.  Raise gas tax 4 bucks a gallon.  FORCE individuals to buy said small cars.

3.  Re-design everything to resemble the SMART car.  Oh yeah.

Lets hear from the designers at the Big 3.  Anyone getting re-assigned???

Wolf

116

FORD

Fix Obama's Ridiculous Dictatorship

117 I can’t justify buying another Ford either as long as the money is going to the UAW even if they aren’t involved in this bailout, yet.

118 Y'all have to say, odumbass sure slipped his dictatorship by the USA, but not all of US!

119 The great thing about Obama's mission is how easy it all is. All he needs to do is fuck shit up. If it trends towards fascist/statist/socialist, all the better, but the main idea is to create ruin and chaos as quickly as possible and posit more government as the only way out of it.

It's the same basic concept as asymmetrical warfare: anything short of a total loss is a win. Even if he is impeached and removed tomorrow much of what he's done cannot be undone. Example: how can you restore competition to the US auto industry after today?  You can't.  It's over.

Such is the fragile nature of the Constitution and the rule of law.  All it takes is one charismatic motherfucker to tank the whole thing.

120  I wonder if I put my kids on the list now, they will have cars in time for their own families.  Probably a bit of a reach, but maybe not. - First, they will have to be chosen to be educated into a job that pays enough to be able to afford a car. And that will only happen if they come from a politically acceptable family with the right connections.

121 Unless they outright ban foreign cars, I will never buy a GM or a Chrysler.  In fact, I will do my best to buy used cars not from either of those brands.

122

Speech just given by Obama:

In a little under 31 days, I have forced an All American company to sell to a foreign company.  How great am I?  Bush created this problem by only half trusting the system, but I saved it by only trusting Axelrod's and Ayer's system!  I donated your grand kids' money and donated it, through Chrysler and GM, to the UAW.  By this action only, I am getting re-elected; kicking capitalism in the balls; selling a Big Three company to a foreign company (how great is that?!); and forcing 10000+ Americans to get an unearned paycheck from the government!  Obama bless America!

I would also like to note that I did this without any resistance from the public and with praise from the Press.  I also was able to keep my first campaign promise.  I shut down NYC for an half an hour, forced many Americans to miss their shows, flights, dinner, etc., all so I could take the press out to a dinner and a show.  Oh shit, I almost forgot, Michelle went with us as well."

 

This is almost word-for-word, but not perfect because I can't find the transcripts of his speech.

123 108 Economies do not fail. governments fail.  Obama has fucked up big time.  Does anyone believe this isn't intentional?

Depends on what he does with the results.

I personally see the results biting him square in the ass come November 2010, curtailing HopeNChange between then and November 2012, unless he muscles something through during the lame-duck Congress..

124 tachyonshuggy@119,

See Cloward-Piven. That is the template. It sure looks like the goal and is playing out as predicted so far.

125
Hey, here's another sacrifice for everyone that pays taxes.

http://tinyurl.com/ll2c3h

U.S. Debt $668,621 Per Household!

As linked by Insty.

Thanks 52!

126 We may all be eventually be formally converted to being property of the US government [although I have great hopes that the conversion process will be halted by field expedient means before being completed]; but we are not dead yet. Some suggestions.

1) Who needs a new car? Buy used and keep the bugger going as long as possible. If forced by circumstances to buy a new car; go non-UAW foreign. Ford is still UAW and will be assimilated as soon as the UAW can arrange a strike.

2) Do not buy any union made goods/services if you can avoid it.

3) If possible, do not transact business with union members as individuals. If you see a union sticker on a vehicle, it identifies one of Obama's wards. If you need a contractor, don't hire a union contractor unless forced to. This will overlap with #4 below.

4) If possible, do not do business with Democrats. [locally, many Democrat leaders are business owners. Boycott the bastards. In this economy, it might not take much to push them over the edge. If you see a newpaper piece about the local chairman or committee member of the Democrats or a Democratic political official, find out where they work/own and don't patronize them and encourage others not to either. Voter registration books (and party affiliations) are public records and can be used to sort out who to consider doing business with. Spread the word, and don't feel constrained to use truth. If Joe Blow, Democrat county committeeman owns a hamburger stand, comments about the number of missing household pets in the neighborhood might be appropriate. If they are subject to zoning, health, or safety regulations; complaints can turn the enemy (government) against its own (Democrats)].

5) If you have an investment account [IRA, 401k, or other (assuming it has any worth since Jan. 20, 2009)] that you direct, get out of any company that has a union contract, or has taken TARP funds. Owning stock or bonds from a union/TARP company is an invitation to be robbed by the Federal government. If you have a stake in a pension fund, etc. agitate with the board of trustees to get the hell out of such companies; purely on fiduciary grounds.

6) #28 above may be a bit extreme; but think of the marketing affect/insurance rates if Obamamobiles end up with the reputation for not being safe to be on the streets.

7) Humor and contempt as memes are very effective political weapons and hard to counter.

----------------------------------------------------------

To the Black Panther Party Militia/ Obama Jugend minders watching for "ungood thought" online; I note that AOShq is known for, among other things, humor and satire; which items are still protected under what little is left of the US Constitution.

Subotai Bahadur

127 Maybe I can trade my old Lumina in under TOTUS' scrap program for one of the last Chrysler JEEPs sitting on the showroom floor in some dealer about to go down..

maybe a JEEP LIBERTY ,
liberty to keep my family out of a potentially fatal crash in a Fiero like tiny ball of flame in an Obamamobile....

128 Dow is up 200+ and is at 8700+ some investors are happy

129 Have you heard about the new model GM is planning?  The 2009 GM Barack.  It runs on bullshit and only turns to the left.

130 TC @ #4: me too, I'm just hoping that Saturn gets spun off and then mops the floor with Obama Motor's ass.

Otherwise it's looking like a rice burner, or maybe a fine German diesel. If they come in a manual transmission...

131 Frackin' mis-spelled sock puppet...

132 Yeah, John ryan, and it only took $50 billion and violations of the law to do it.

133

Green job training classes?!

You are fucking kidding me! 

A junk car policy?!

Ordering a fleet of cars?!  What kind Bambi?  The green shit cars?  You should get on to replace you Caddy.  They could outfit it for your protection.  Be our leader.  Show us the way!  Once you ride in a smart car, then maybe the American people will think about it!!!

I cry everytime he speaks.  Reflex I guess.

134 I hope Texans secede soon, it's time!

135

I think he called them Trabies.  I guess that is what we have to look forward to.  I wonder if I put my kids on the list now, they will have cars in time for their own families.  Probably a bit of a reach, but maybe not. 

Posted by: Trish at June 01, 2009 11:14 AM (0U5Kd)

Those were Trabants. Their body panels were made out of pressed wood, like masonite.

And yes, that's what we have to look foreward to.

136 yes john ryan, the traders are high on construction data from CHINA, yes they are putting their faith in the economic data the communist govt released to its public,, uh hmmm
commodities are on a tear, and I dont think it is just China construction stimulus, it is a safety play, the treasrys are no longer safe in this bubble the US dollar is falling
 
where ya gonna go?

GOLD baby hard commodities, even soft, gotta eat, need some wheat
MOO is my play, a soft ag etf.
and Agnico Eagle Mining, and of course actual gold in safety deposit box for the inevitable dollar collapse, as insurance against the losses any savings I have left will take as inflation inevitably hits us and it will be nasty, oh yes....

so Wall St is in a short squeeze on GM stock, I mean it is worthless and it is UP, as they short cover that, but it is commodities moving

also I think there is relief that GM is out of the DOW 30 and CISCO is in

137

Dow is up 200+ and is at 8700+ some investors are happy

 

Suckers' rally. See the market rallies that happened in the 1930s. Nitwit.

138 Soooo, how are we all suppose to report this on our taxes now that we own so much?

139

(not talking about my fellow morons or Tea Party folks)

Pravda is right we are a nation of sheeple.

half of us don't want to be, but we are stuck in that box by politics as we are used to it.

the Dems point their fingers at the Repubs and the Repubs point their fingers at the Dems, round and round we go.

they are BOTH wrong, because they are both taking us to the same place!

if you want to win this fight you have to be willing to let go of everything, you have to risk all, but no one is willing to do that so tyranny will prevail and freedom will die.

how much freedom have we lost in the last 100 years, 50 years? 20? the last six months?

how much will you lose in the next 3 years, 7 months?

when is it all gone?

140

My 1990 S-10 with 223k miles sits it the driveway awaiting the money for a fuel pump.

I'll drive it until the wheels fall off of it before I buy another GM vehicle. And that's all I've owned for years.

Obama is an imbecile who's doing his dead level best to destroy our country. He and every one of his America-hating comrades needs to be turned out of office at every opportunity.

141 When are acorn and the new black panthers going to be given their marching orders to destroy trucks and cars owned by Americans that actually work for a living?

142 So will all new GM cars come with an Obama sticker pre-fabbed into the bumper?

143 I say boycott GM, and not even just GM, but USED GM cars. Make the brand radioactive. If resale of these shitpiles plummet that should impact the amount of new cars sold.

Boycott the whole damn thing, including used cars.

Shit, Germany is less socialist than we are becoming.

144 I forgot the tree huggers.

145 There were no better cars than Chevies when I was a youngster. We had a '67 barebones Caprice for 23 years.  It basically rusted out from around us and the kids who rented our garage put the engine and drivetrain into an Explorer.  Older man's car, '78 Delta 88 Royale.  Same thing.  Next a Jeep and a '91 Chevy Caprice, both wonderful cars, neither could do what the other could, but the Caprice needed less maintenance.  Now it's Nissans -- Pathfinder and Altima.

146

Suckers' rally.

No kidding.  The dollar is tanking--that means oil is about to jump through the roof again and this time, magically, there will be coordinated disinterest in "windfall profits" and BIG OIL CONSPIRACIES^tm. 

New medical condition:  Unicorn Jaw--from all the grinding.

147 anyone else watching this farce of a new conference?  Also, did you see that France has asked for help from our military?  (via drudge)

148

OT

Can people who voted at the site that was 'thugged' by the Black Panthers, sue them in civil court?  Especially the person they called a cracker. 

Man I cringe just typing something seemingly racists.

149 Rick Perry President of the Republic of Texas sounds good.

150 Couple of business history notes. Amtrak was formed from services that "private" railroads did not wish to offer; it took them 20 years to obtain permission to abandon their government-mandated routes. Conrail is the better comparison--government fell into possession as freight railroads went bankrupt, and after some years the re-formed company was sold to the surviving railroad giants, at a profit.

In the early 1900's, western farmers complained of being ripped off by the railroads--the enmity this conceived in Sam Rayburn (D) caused his lifelong support for interstates, airlines and anything else that would compete with railroads--and government's response then was not to regulate rates further, but to create new competition in the form of Parcel Post--from the Post Office Department.

The entire railroad industry was nationalized during WWI, and its package freight operations were spun into a government-backed private firm, Railway Express, in the early 20's. It eventually went bankrupt, but the laws that had set postal rates to protect it were used by investors to create a new package company, UPS. Stagecoach lines, steamboat lines, transatlantic liners, railroads, truck lines and airlines were all heavily subsidized with postal contracts, beginning in the 18th century with road construction, championed by noted commie Benjamin Franklin. FWIW, the Post Office was not seized from investors, but from the Crown, so also may not be the best comparison as a business case. Yon IntrarW3bz operates under government franchise, and was set up by federal money, and I'm not seeing a one of you boycotting it.

I love to argue against socialism, but I have to say I'm not seeing a lot of strong content in the commentary, just the same kind of nyah-nyah brand loyalties that used to be accompanied by burps and farts at the barber shop. The auto industry has not been "free" enterprise since Kennedy pulled the military contracts from Studebaker (R)--or perhaps since Ike sent Curtiss-Wright management there to keep them from ceasing production in 1956.  The Big 3 all co-operated in total government control beginning in the 70's, never fomented any rebellion, and smiled for the cameras under those hot subcommittee lights. The game was over then.  Looks to me like most of you just noticed that for the first time.

151

go to michael moore's site and read his plan for GM. this is what happens when taxpayer dollars are used, we all own a piece of the company.

 

I tried the tiny url thing but i don't know how to post it.

 

Have a barf bag handy to save your computer screen an untimely demise.

152

Gee, "Jed"--did you used to wear an onion on your belt back in the day?  Because it was the style at the time, you know.

There is an enormous difference between what has gone before and what is happening now.  The railroads were anachronistic because of other developments--not bad management as is the case with the auto industry.  The government intervention in other areas are simply miniscule to these ill-conceived policies.

And now health care.  I can't wait.

153

You sound like a very fun guy, Jed Starnes, very nice to hang around with.

Your hppy attitude will take you far in life.

154

go to michael moore's site and read his plan for GM.

What's longer than "never"?

155 Next Law...All local, State, and Federal Government vehicle purchases will have to go through GM or Chrysler.

156

http://tinyurl.com/m36jv3

Mother 'too stupid' to keep child rules UK court (I think) but Nottingham City Council application to have her daughter adopted.

This is just disgusting, but I promise it will be tried here soon.

 

 

157 Circa (Insert Year Here): "What's longer than 'never'?"

Michael Moore's nose?

158 155 Sparky,

Car chases will be fun to watch when the cops are driving garanimal cracker boxes and trying to bump the perps off the freeway. hahahaha

159 I'll have to defer to Jed's expertise with regards to burps and farts in the barber shop, he's probably been the author of many such things, and I , for one, would like to thank him for revealing his "SUPER SECRET KNOWLEDGE OF ALL THINGS SOCIALIST," and disparaging the opinions of others as so much boosterism.  Got a news letter we could subscribe to, Jed?

160

How much was GM and Chrysler worth on O's first day?

 

The radio just announced that this GM bankruptcy just cost OHIO over 2,000 jobs, with the final tally possibly reaching 4,000 jobs.

161

I was once part of a team (I had a minor role) trying to put together a deal for a company to buy the generator business from Delphi automotive.  On the plant tour, everyone noticed that none of the workers actually worked.  The systems were automated and the employees were just there because the union said they had to be there.  The proposed deal was dead five minutes into the plant tour.

Anyone that would invest in anything involving the UAW has to be crazy.

162 160 momma,

I guess the song Ohio by CSNY would not be appropriate now, huh?

163

burp....

fart...

164

My 1990 S-10 with 223k miles sits it the driveway awaiting the money for a fuel pump.

My dad has a 1991 S-10 with a 2.8l and 200k miles that I drove in college, my brother drove in college, and then got used as a farm truck.  It has been wrecked at least three times (two of which it got rear-ended).  Those trucks were dirt cheap and last a long time!

Grim

165

DOW is up. (Dog bites man)

Is that because they announced a de-listing (from the DOW) of GM and Citi ? (actual delisting takes 5 days or so. June

If you remove DEAD-WEIGHT, of course something floats up.

It doesnt measure the pondscum that are still rotting away our economy.

If this keeps up, it will become the GOW .... When the government finishes the takeover of the free markets and capitalist companies.

166

Silent but deadly one, just for Jed....here goes.

Ahhhh.

You bring out the best in me, Jed, you barrel of laughs, you.

167

Actually, buying either a Subaru or Hyundai might be the better deal, both from the Anti-Communist South Korea

I have 2 Hyundais and 1 Subaru, but am selling the Subaru

168

In fact, Jed is a well known author. You've all read "How to Go Over Like a Fart in Church or Barbershop" haven't you?

He's a world renowned expert.

169 If you haven't been pulling it together for your family since Jan. it's time you get with program folks, this is going to be ugly, very ugly!

170 149 Rick Perry President of the Republic of Texas sounds good. - Yes but, United Free States of America sounds even better. Think Tx., Ok., Ks., NM, Neb., Mon., Wy., etc.

171 170 teej,

I think we are qualified to be the point man. !

172

171 170 teej,

I think we are qualified to be the point man. !

You watch my back I'll watch yours man.

173 Meanwhile, Ford hasn't taken any bailout money.

Bullshit, Drew. They took money last year for supposed retooling for 'green vehicles.' Sorry, you can't square this circle.

174

Nam Grunt-

Sad thing when you build a fence and leave the 8 foot posts intact.  You know, just in case we need to put up barbed wire, or electrify it.

175 172 teej,

That is the American Way still!

176 175 172 teej,

That is the American Way still! -  Hey, I just ask myself, "what would John Wayne do"?

177 Can't wait what the 2017 Corevette ZR1 will look like. If it still being made. I'm going for 90hp 45ft/lb tor.

178 174 momma,

When it comes down to the nut cutting the Military will gravitate to Texas

179 Spread the word, and don't feel constrained to use truth.

This is the path to tyranny, and just plain stupid.  There is this thing called the "Internet".  This first time you tried something like this you'd be laughed at, derided and hooted out of decent society.  Just ask Dan Rather.

This buying an entirely new federal fleet is a gimmick and waste of money.  The volume of cars purchased is not enough to keep both GM and Chrysler afloat.  Once complete, then what?

Those who think they will get by through only purchasing used cars fail to understand power and its uses.  These "gas guzzlers" will be brought under "much needed" regulation.  Used car purchases will be taxed out the wazoo in order to "save the environment".

Those who think that any system of vouchers/rebates will fail to get people to buy GM and Chrysler cars are wrong as well.  The people getting the vouchers will not be the people paying for them.  You as a taxpayer will be paying for these things, but the people who will get them, i.e. the almost half of the population who pay no taxes, will only think what a great deal they got.  And they will continue to pull the D lever in the voting booth so that the goodies just keep on coming.

Democracy only lasts until the people discover they can vote themselves into the Treasury.

This has very little to do with Obama.  If not him, it would have been someone else, only a lot slower.  This country will not get back on track unless the voters have a change of heart.

The 52% will rule us all and gleefully, giddily, blindly lead us to our mutual destruction.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

180 Why didn't they let this happen a year ago at no expense to me?

181 Why didn't they let this happen a year ago at no expense to me?

Many of us argued that exact thing at the time.  GM and Chrysler were always going to go bankrupt.  Tens of billions of dollars were just evaporated for no other reason than as a "compassionate" parting gift from Bush. 

Gee, thanks!

182 Communists have been trying for more than 40 years to destroy the USA and they always told us they would but noone listened, we just kept mowing our yards and taking our kids to school and saying not me, just to be simple, well it's here folks and it's time to punch the clock and stand up!

183 That's some great anti-trollware you've rolled out there, but if you read what you've written, it's all about the Delta 88 your grandpa had, or your mahvelous new Datsun. Well, the Chevrolet Six, up until the Stove-Bolt, was exceedingly prone to overheating and block warpage, and incapable of sustained 50 MPH in their full-sized cars. You used to see them pulled over, steaming, every Sunday. Of course, they replaced that engine in 1954, but hey, they never did a thing to make it right so GM sucks. Also, they early Subarus were a piece of shit. None of these reflections have a thing to do with business cases. Did you know that all the chrome trim pitted in one year, during the Korean War? You see what I'm saying, you're not arguing against my point, you're just yelling, and you are not making the point against government ownership or subsidy, largely, I'll claim, because most of it grew up with it and do not recognize how thorough-going its influence is.

Railroads were not anachronistic in 1909, or 1917, or even 1956, Circa, and there's two U's in minuscule. As a freight vehicle or a way to get into NYC, they're not anachronistic now. But I didn't start the railroad comparison, it's cited above, vis a vis Amtrak. So I know I am but what are you, you sound like a bunch of old guys sitting around the barbershop burping and farting, and talking about that water carburetor GM bought up and put on the shelf. You're not making a cogent argument.

Oh, and do I sound like I'm not much fun? You guys are trying to work out a numbered plan to boycott US companies, see above, blame either US management or US labor for Obama's actions, see above; I do not see a single reference to something as simple as the history of government interference in the car industry. This is your idea of a good fun time with pals?  Looks like self-flagellation. That'll never get you up off your knees.

184 And so drops the final curtain on the American auto industry.

GM and the rest will soon join the US Mail service and Amtrak as government success stories.  I'm feeling a rush of all-over Hope'n'Change. All taxpayers should now rejoice at becoming owners of a pile of rust.  We'll be paying for this forever but we can rest easy knowing union workers will be protected and allowed to occasionally make something resembling a car.

185 Every speech odumbass makes he keeps telling us that he is going to fuck us to death and we'll enjoy it, wake up America before it's too late!

186

In someplace other than bizzar-O's world, Ford would have a fleet of attorneys lined up to sue over everything from the government buying cars from itself to having to negotiate labor deals with the owners of their competition.  However, I can't see them raising a whimper and I weep not for any loss of union power.  I will not knowingly buy any union-produced large-ticket items. 

Ladies and gentlemen, we bantor back and forth on sites like this, tossing snark and sarc around like so many water balloons.  But, I'm officially scared and deeply distraught that the greatest nation ever has unwound so quickly and with almost no opposition to Mr Obama and his cohorts. 

I have no idea what to do.  Resign myself to this continuing loss of freedom?  Rise up in revolution as a loner?  Move and renounce my citizenship?  The options aren't pretty. 

God help us all. 

187 186 The Hammer,

With judges like slutomyer in charge those lawsuits don't mean a damn thing!

188

Jed,

I'm sure we all realize the government has it's fingers in every aspect of our lives.  But unless you want to become a survivalist and homestead in the woods of Alaska, I'm not sure what you think we should do.

Are you saying it's "all or nothing"?  If we're not willing to become Amish, we have no right to bitch?  That's bullshit.  Normal, functioning people will pick and choose how they can best fight this rapidly approaching communism.  I don't see anything wrong with making a statement against the government buying out even more private business.

189 We will survive all of this, Americans are not communists and will find the straw that breaks the camels back in the end.

190 These cafe standards won't take place for 7 years and Ford will make the vehicles that Americans want to buy, so no worries odumbass will be history by then, so just man up, Rush was just talking about this.

191 I promise you this, my next new car purchase WILL NOT be one of a car made by the UAW and I hope the rest of the nation follows suit. 

192

189...I hope you're right, but think about the seismic cultural shift we've undergone in the last 40 years.  We've allowed unfettered immigration to dramatically alter the fabric of "being American". 

If you're coming from a country where $15/month is standard and the government cannot even provide basic security, how likely are you to complain about making $20/hr in a government sponsored union job? 

Obama's European socialism is just bond enough not to be free and just free enough that most won't fight it's contraints.  I'm finding it hard to construct a scenario where we turn back to free-market, democratic-republic, representative capitalism. 

I feel a tremendous sense of loss. 

193 Boycott GM and Chrysler products.  Buy Fords instead.

194

You know, an elephant is trained for the circus by using very heavy chains to restrict it's movements.  After a while, it becomes so conditioned that even a small rope will accomplish the same result. 

Political correctness run amok, unrelenting academia assults on capitalism, the pursuit of multi-cultural diversity utopia, and the anti-USA screed of self-loathing leftist like Michael Moore have teamed to condition the conservative movement to behave like so many circus elephants. 

195 Posted by: Chimney Sweep #8 at June 01, 2009 12:23 PM (kIjlp)

I didn't say they've never taken federal money but it's not the same as bailout money. I don't blame any company taking money to offset the cost of federally imposed mandates.

Why should Ford have to suck up the costs of ridiculous CAFE standards?

196

Jed's back, isn't he?  Pass the air freshener, please.

 

197

195...Ford is a UAW company and should be seen as such.  Any strenght the UAW gains from a successful Ford only furthers the success of Obama Motors.

 

 

198 Nice South Park reference.Wasn't that in the Wall Street Journal the other day?
Obama's administration is acting exactly like the underwear gnomes.

199 The new GM cars will be loaded with attractive "options" like:

- Wheels/tires only $500 extra
- Seats only $800 extra
- Window glass $500 extra
- Drivetrain $6000 extra
- Roof $1000 extra
- Doors $3000 extra

The "stripped" models will only be $5,000 and consist of the government mandated warning decal set, owners manual, and brightly decorated free Key fob.  The "stripped" models all come with a lifetime warranty, models with any options, get the standard 5/50 warranty - 5 minutes or 50 feet, whichever comes first.

200 GM and Chrysler are dead to me now.

201

Those of you driving the wheels off of your currently-owned GM's, don't forget to part that bad boy out when it finally does become undrivable.  You'll probably be sitting on a gold-mine, with other people trying to keep their own old GM clunkers running by that point.

202 don't worry guys we will survive ,obama will last only 14 months and then he will be impeached tried and sentenced to life in prison for causing our economy to collapse

203 How much do you want to bet that the SUV's of the future will only be available to Government Agencies made by Government Motors? I also predict that if nobody will buy their 4 passenger micro-mini toys, they will outlaw all Ford,Toyota,Honda, et al car makers. You will get a midnight call from some Gov. agency(sometimes in person) to tell you that you have 30 days to get with the program. Or face a heavy fine, and or, possible jail time!  

204 Just so I can get a timeline on Ford, when is their UAW contract due for renegotiation?

205 I was behind one of those chevy smart cars over the weekend, as it was doing 30 in a 40. When I got next to it in a turn lane and was able to give it more of a look, I reached these conclusions:

- It's not a car, it's a dune buggy.
- I'm a stocky guy, 5'10" 225#. I would struggle to fit comfortably in that thing.
- The young girl driving it looked rather petite, and if she were to hit my Buick Le Sabre at any speed, the only damage to my car would be from her body hitting it, not her car frame. There is no way she is protected in that thing.

206

Doc - The Smart ForTwo is a Chevrolet product?  I thought they were a standalone company from Europe.

But you are correct on the safety.  NHTSA did an off-set head-on-collision test at 40mph between the tinies from various makers, and midsize sedans from the same makers.  Honda Fit vs. Accord.  Toyota Yaris vs. Camry.  Smart ForTwo vs. <something, I can't recall, maybe a BMW 3-series?>  It was not a pretty demise for the tinies.

207 #204 Jean

The Master Contract for Ford was signed in 2007. I cannot find an explicit statement of length, but this from the UAW says that bonuses will be paid in April of every year through 2011. So I am assuming 4 years.

http://www.uaw.org/contracts/07/ford/hrly/ford_hr05.php

This was modified last March, however I do not know if the term of the contract was changed.

All of that may be irrelevant however. Once GM and Chrysler are digested and if Ford is prospering, there is literally nothing to keep the UAW from reneging on the contract. Contract law has been tossed in the dumpster by the Obama regime. The National Labor Relations Board is a creature of the Executive Branch, and will not sanction the UAW for violating the contract. Conversely, at will, they will invent Ford violations to justify any desired UAW action. So the timeline you are looking for can be defined as whenever the UAW or 'Teh One' decides that they want to steal Ford.

In the absence of a functioning, stable legal system; Mao's dictum as to the ultimate source of power stands. Right now, the State under Obama holds the guns.

Subotai Bahadur

208 206... I thought it was the same car that drudge had a picture up over the weekend, which I assumed was a chevy. I could've been wrong on that, as the only logo I saw was "smart".

I stand by the rest of my statement though.

209 Actually the pic is still on drudge, down the page a bit. I really think the car I saw was smaller than that one, if possible. So it must be what Reason was referring to.

210

No worries.

Smart ForTwo

GM Spark

Stupid-small...  I'd feel just about as safe in this.

211 Government idiots will later scratch their heads at all their unsold cars, wondering why people are hanging onto their 'clunkers'.  By God, we'll get the US looking like Cuba yet.  Just give Obama a couple more years.

212

I will never buy another GM or Chrysler again.

You can add me to that list.  I have a Chevy now, which I'll keep until it dies since it's paid for.  But never again.

___________________________________________________________

 

Same here.

213 I have three full-sized Chevy trucks in the driveway. Big snorting V8s, 4WD, crew cabs, yadda yadda. Always thought it was a good idea...until today. Now that Chairman Zero is Chairman of GM, Toyota is starting to look real good about now.

Fuck I hate this guy!

214 #130, VW makes a diesel with a manual trans, I dont think Mercedes does though

215 Has anyone actually gotten a clear explanation from the Obama Misadministration of WHY it's necessary for the government to actually OWN General Motors?

Silly question, I know.

216

Why is no one pointing out how both the government and UAW get extra benefits that the bondholders do not. In addition to their common equity stakes, the government gets $8.8 bn in debt and preferred stock and the UAW get $2.5bn in debt and $6.5bn in preferred stock. The Canadian govt also gets about $1.7bn in debt and preferred. Not only is this almost $20bn in extra value that is not shared with the bondholders. It is a drag on profitability because it needs to be paid back before value is shared with the rest of the shareholders. More insidiously, debt and preferred stock come before common equity in a (true) bankruptcy ordering. Thus, in the next GM bankruptcy (and most people think there will be one) the government and the UAW will be first in line. Their $20bn in senior claims is likely to extinguish all the value available at that time (hard to imagine GM filing for bankruptcy again if it is worth $20bn). This would leave them with 100% ownership among them. I haven’t seen any paper comment on this angle.

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218 "Well, the Chevrolet Six, up until the Stove-Bolt, was exceedingly prone to overheating and block warpage, and incapable of sustained 50 MPH in their full-sized cars."

WTF are you talking about?  The "Stovebolt Six" was built from 1928 to 1962.  I know because I own a 1961 Stovebolt that dwells within my 1939 Chevy.  They could EASILY pull 50 mph by 1954...in fact, I drove my 1939 when it had its stock 216 at 50mph all day long without worry - even with the 4.22(!) Master Deluxe gearset.  I have never seen a "warped block" as that is almost impossible in something as heavily built as that.  Likewise, mine has never overheated.  I can believe that the earlier ones did (the 1954 and prior with the older oiling system) as they weren't nearly as well lubricated.

In fact the only problem I've seen in the design is some odd assembly decisions, and the combustion chambers, but designing cylinder head flow was in its infancy back then.  The Stovebolt was good enough for Toyota to copy and use until the 80's.

It was replaced in 1963 by the much improved 194 (?) -230 - 292 series.

And the Chevrolet small-block was a master stroke of engineering from Ed Cole.

219 PS If I can manage to suppress my love for GM cars, or if they kill all the stuff I like, then I guess I'm moving to Ford.  Thank God they stood tall.

220 lol one more thing, even you hate government subsidies, then you definitely shouldn't buy Toyota or any of the Japanese car makers.  Toyota is getting a massive bailout from the Japanese government - and all Japanese and Korean car companies enjoy highly protectionist legislation that pretty much ensures no foreign competition in the home market.  You can't import jackshit into either country...we aren't even allowed to try.

221  not getting it @ 220: "even you hate government subsidies, then you definitely shouldn't buy Toyota or any of the Japanese car makers.  "

I hate it when MY government subsidizes wasteful and uncompetitive lines of production.  When foreign governments waste their money on making THEIR exports cheaper for me ... not so much.

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Cheap Lasix is a pretty strong diuretic. The chemical Furosemide works on the body by blocking the salt absorbing glands and the fluids within the kidney tubules. This causes an intense increase in the output of urine. Furosemide can lead to electrolyte depletion and body water depletion. It is better not to consume lasix if you are not able to urinate.

Furosemide helps in treating accumulation of excess fluids and swelling in the body that is caused due to heart failure, chronic failure of the kidneys, nephrotic syndrome, and cirrhosis. This drug is also used in combination with other pills of blood pressure to treat the problems of high blood pressure effectively.

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