1

Dave --

What makes you think they would stop even there?

2 This fool never quite acknowledges that maybe the reason people voted for Bush in '04 was in part because they agreed with what he was doing.

Kinsley is just assuming all right thinking people agree with him, Andrew Sullivan and the various incarnations of Glenn Greenwald.

I think this is Kinsley's Pauline Kael moment.

3 Fuck that asshole.

4 Nevermind that the whole "let's prosecute the previous opposition party administration just because" precedent could backfire and be used against Democrats when another Republican administration gets into office, too.

5

There is another group -- a large one -- that stood by doing nothing while Americans grabbed people off the streets of foreign countries, took them to other foreign countries (because we don't allow this sort of thing in the United States!) and tortured them.

His denouncing of Americans travelling to foreign countries like Afghanistan or Germany and shooting people up in the streets there should appear any minute now. 

 

 

6

2 Kinsley is just assuming all right thinking people agree with him...

Well, yeah -- that's the principle defining mindset of the ideological Left: Any thought that isn't leftist thought is by definition aberrant and unnatural, therefore it is to be dismissed.

7 And when the next big attack happens, can we feel the same way about you? Will that not prove you are wrong, put us in danger, and now must be prosecuted and hounded till death by our political party and it's friends?

Is that the only way back to power? I am fucking ready bitches.

8 Dear Kinsley:

I support the actions sanctioned by the former President, his Secretary of States and his Directors of Central Intelligence. This does not include the unsanctioned insanity omnipresent in any war - cf. Abu Ghraib - because war is indeed hell.

But for the sanctioned behavior, I accept that my representatives in governance were the direct cause of all of this behavior. Any guilt you'd like to ascribe to me - feel free.

Please send a formal accusation to my barrister. I could use the cash.

9 Bush voter here.

Come and get me, coward.

10 Does this mean anybody who voted for Clinton gets prosecuted too? He's the one who created the rendition/secret prison program.

Bush's biggest mistake, aside from being a Republican, was keeping the prisoners in US custody instead of doing what Clinton did and just outsource the interrogations to "friendly countries".

11

To which I say

Bring it Bithches!!!!

12 Um, someone correct me if I'm wrong but- didn't preznit braindead sign an executive order sometime in his first month of infestation providing for the continuation of Renditions?

Guess we have to get after that 52% now. Thanks Kinsley, you're a peach!

13 DinT, dude you read Kinsley and can still type?

Remarkable.

To Kinsley: bring it on, bitch.

14

Is this any different that us saying the 53% should be horsewhipped?  And besides, who does give a shit what this commie spews out.

15

This is about your tacit or active support for a prior political regime.

It's time for punishment, for having exercised your right to live and think in a Republic.

That is a chill wind. "Shut up if you know what's good for you".

Posted by: Dave In Texas at 10:59 AM   I think you're absolutely right in your assessment here.   Which makes it all the more important for us to take the high road.   We can not descend to their level.  Gosh, if we just calmly explain our position to the American people, in the face of this, we'll win.   After all, I wouldn't like to descend to their level.  Which is why, when I was sexually assaulted by a homicidal maniac in a Turkish prison, I made sure not to descend to his level of violence.  I took the high road and used the Marquis of Queensbury rules.  And you know what?  Being this guys cell-bitch for the next 5 years was a price that was worth paying in order to maintain my moral integrity.  Sure, I could have fought dirty and won.  But at the cost of my soul.   Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to have to change my colostomy bag.

16

(reposted because the evil Hal 9000 server ate my paragraph breaks)

This is about your tacit or active support for a prior political regime.

It's time for punishment, for having exercised your right to live and think in a Republic.

That is a chill wind. "Shut up if you know what's good for you".

Posted by: Dave In Texas at 10:59 AM  

I think you're absolutely right in your assessment here.   Which makes it all the more important for us to take the high road.   We can not descend to their level.  Gosh, if we just calmly explain our position to the American people, in the face of this, we'll win.   After all, I wouldn't like to descend to their level.

  Which is why, when I was sexually assaulted by a homicidal maniac in a Turkish prison, I made sure not to descend to his level of violence.  I took the high road and used the Marquis of Queensbury rules.  And you know what?  Being this guys cell-bitch for the next 5 years was a price that was worth paying in order to maintain my moral integrity.  Sure, I could have fought dirty and won.  But at the cost of my soul.  

Now, if you don't mind, I'm going to have to change my colostomy bag.

17

I want our enemies to fear us. I want them to soil their panties at the thought of being captured. I want my government to protect me from insane movements and the idiots that take part in them by what ever means are necessary.

I'll end my rant with the question I asked the other day.

Who was really tortured: Kahlid Sheik Mohammed or Daniel Pearl?

Kinsley, FOAD.

18

Michael who know? 

But now you know why the White House Press corps want to be O's enforcers - because they can be in power and show all the rest of us. 

 

 

19

Backwards boy, what I think you are saying can be best expressed as follows:

Oderint dum metuant

 

20

Ed, even better:

 

Molon labe.

 

 

21

This goofball doesn't just ignore the whole "torture" and "who did we save" arguments. He amps it to eleven. He's quite ready to take it to the 48% who dared to question the elevation of righteousness and purity.

No, he is attacking the 52% who voted for Bush in 2004.

22 "This is about your tacit or active support for a prior political regime."

The prior political "regime" was the Articles of Confederation, douchebag.  America is not, or was not until now, a fucking banana republic where swings in the political pendulum result in the New Boss's Gang getting to take the machete to the Old Boss's Gang.

23

Three words for Mr. Kinsley:   Bring.It.Motherfucker!

But he won't. He'll expect those poor under-educated rubes that John Kerrey was warning about to go enforce this shit.

24 Here come the gulags.

25

BTW, Kinsley is a pussy.  I second the bring it mother fucker. 

 

 

26 Thus ensuring the Dems will all be prosecuted when they're eventually defeated.  Fucking genius political class thinking right there.

27 People have such an infantile perspective on "torture."  They seem to think that we grabbed people and "tortured" them into making confessions, which would be useless, of course, because you can get anyone to admit to anything if you torture them enough.

But that was never the purpose.  We didn't waterboard KSM to get him to admit culpability to anything.  We waterboarded him to get verifiable intelligence, information he couldn't fake, information which saved American lives.

Imbeciles like Kinsley conveniently forget that the death toll on 9/11 probably should have been ten times as high as it was.  It was a miracle that we only lost 3,000 people that day.

If taunting some animal with a caterpillar prevents the next one, then by all means, "torture" them.

28 Michael Kinsley is more than welcome to personally come to my home and try and enforce whatever punishment and retribution he deems fit. It would be an interesting... discussion.

29

This pansy bullshit about "not sinking to their level" almost makes me physically ill. Taken to it's absurd extreme, as some in politics are suggesting, it will result in a mushroom cloud over what used to be an American city.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with killing bad guys.

Again, who was really tortured: an accountant burned alive in the 9-11 attack or KSM?

30 Now, on the other hand, is it possible that Kinsley is being outrageous to make a point (i.e., that you can't punish the American people so it's probably best to knock off the calls for retribution), or can this be taken at face value?

Could he really be that stupid and asinine?

31

Here's the flip side to that, Mr. Kinsley, in case you're reading:

Until March 19, 2003, there were government employees in Iraq who raped women and girls as part of their jobs. As bad as I thought Saddam Hussein's regime was, I was thoroughly disgusted at learning of this practice. I have never thought or felt any opposition to the U.S.-led invasion on Iraq to oust Hussein and his good-for-nothing sons from power, nor have I voiced anything short of enthusiastic, unambiguous support for that effort and for those who carried out that effort.

Others had different opinions over the last seven years. For various reasons, some people thought the United States should not have invaded this country. This course of inaction, despite your predictable protestations and rationalizations, would have resulted in the continued operation of the rape rooms. Again, so there are no misunderstandings: If the U.S. does not lead an invasion of Iraq, then the rape rooms stay open as a direct consequence.

So what justice do you think, Mr. Kinsley, should be visited upon those who, actively or tacitly, advocated the continued government-sanctioned rape of women and girls in Saddam Hussein's Iraq?

Shall we research various newspapers' op-ed pages to see who would be subject to this justice? Or will your current political tailwinds be forever at your back?

 

32

The slide toward becoming the World's Largest Banana Republic™ continues thusly.

 

(with apologies to bananas, republics and banana republics)

33

Blaster, here is how you translate Molon Labe .

Also, here is how you translate "Then we will fight in the shade."

This is the classic translation, not the modern day translation.

34 It's a call to arms.

35 ^{"Again, who was really tortured: an accountant burned alive in the 9-11 attack or KSM?"}

Hmmm, that's an interesting question.  One man (KSM) versus a couple of buildings filled with "little Eichmanns."

I just don't know.  I'll have to convene a quilting circle and discuss this further.

Probably KSM: he was smart enough to recognize America's innate evil.

36

Oh, and Blaster, what does molon labe mean? I couldn't get the M-W site to recognize the phrase.

And pardon me for "writing while Irish". I promise I'll, ah, self-medicate myself soon.

37

From my huge double wide, with the boat in the bath tub, and with the sound of another par 3 at the windmill hole, I tell you my three card monte part time job just earned me a cool $6! 

But I have to agree with comrades Kingsley and Ayers, 25 million of you need to go to the camps and I'm just the one to man the ovens.

38

We give the dems too much credit. This is BS, like most of what their thinktanks put out. Designed mostly to keep the flames/passions/juices flowing.

Never shut it. Born and breed free thinker.

39 By the way I am soooo hetero, even if I do have wet dreams about Kingsley.

40 Backwards boy, it means "come and take them." in Greek.  It is what the Spartans said when the Persians told them to lay down their weapons.

41

Backwards boy, I recomend you read "Gates of Fire."  Google it if you like, and then purchase it or borrow it.

 

42 "Shut up if you know what's good for you".

Kinsley and friends have moved on.  Shortly they'll be donning their Brown Shirts while holding those family style bonfire rallies.  Personally, I'm not worried about Crystal Night, I don't think Kinsley and friends have the balls to stand up to a 30-06.  And I "don't do" warning shots.

43 MOLON LABE

First thing I thought when I read the post, but I see I'm not the first person to read it.

44

Thanks, Ed, I just found it in one of our fellow morons' posts.

And I agree.

45 If anyone should bump into Michael Kinsley before I do please tell him to go pound sand.

46 But I have to agree with comrades Kingsley and Ayers, 25 million of you need to go to the camps and I'm just the one to man the ovens.

Honest Creep, you are a nasty little pig.

47

It's going to be hard for the donkeys to enforce think-crimes. Most dems are dumbasses but they like to ramble on so. Just can't shut them up. As it should be.

Put me down as a fan of water bording. Now come and get me.

warning. I'm armed.

48

Looks like Kinsley picked the wrong day to go on a jihad.

Your messiah betrayed you, Michael.  If you want 30 pieces of silver, I can make it happen.

49 "I have to agree with comrades Kingsley and Ayers, 25 million of you need to go to the camps and I'm just the one to man the ovens."

So "torture" is evil, but sending people 'to the camps' is okay.

50 When you finally understand that the civil war has already begun, you will begin to fight back.

51 The One's jihadi private army..

52

imtoast at May 02, 2009 12:51 PM (722v3)

*psstt*  Hey, imtoast, I'm gonna let you in on a little secret.  The moderators and administrators of this blog have a little game going on here.  They change Honest Clouds comments to piss him off and frustrate him.  It's what they do to some of the worst trolls.

Example:

You wingnut really need to grow up and quit short stroking it to your homo-erotic fantisys that you all so obviously have.

Posted by: Honest Cloud at May 02, 2009 12:47 PM (0Qynq)

magically becomes...

I'd just like you to know that even though I don't like you guys, I love the idea of playing with your COCKS!!

Posted by: Honest Cloud at May 02, 2009 12:47 PM (0Qynq)

What is the message to be learned here?  Don't piss of the moderators.  But feel free to piss off JackStraw.  He is funny as hell when he gets pissed off.

 

Oh, and YOU'RE WELCOME.

53 The One's jihadi private army..

54 We have to fight back, and fight on their low, dirty level if we have to.  We MUST preserve our FREEDOMS and this great REPUBLIC.

55

I was wondering where I could find the article he wrote calling out all the people involved in trashing Joe the plumber?  I know he must have written several on such topic.  He believes in the rights of everyone, right? 

He must also have written a server full of articles on the kidnappings of American citizens by the drug cartels; the senseless murders, gang violence etc., caused indirectly by the welfare policies of the Dems.; and the 50+ suicides/accidents/murders of the people surrounding the Clinton's.  Right?! Right?

56

When you finally understand that the civil war has already begun, you will begin to fight back.

The other side continues to be ably led by V. I. Lenin. It's telling that (aside from being dead) he's in better physical shape than just about everyone in the world.

57

I would pay big money to be able to urineboard Kinsley.

And a few others.

58 Jackboots:  It's a growth market.

59 Here's my thinking.

After Kinsley and his fellow travelers make enough wild ass pushes to prosecute everyone who voted for Bush, the calls to prosecute Bush and Cheney alone will seem "moderate"...

See how moderate the Dems are? They aren't putting YOU in the Gulag, only the people that you voted for...

60 #52
Ed

Thanks for the heads up. 

61

Thanks to all, Gates of Fire will be the next book I read, as soon as I finish Levin's Freedom and Tyranny. I've seen 300 many times and consider it a modern homage to our military forces.

Come to think of it, an afternoon spent in the hammock reading while *ahem* medicating myself sounds like a good time.

62

XBradTC, what could I have done, really?

I mean, if my job was to take the basket of fries out of the grease when the machine beeps, and if I voted for Bush in 2004 but still took the fries out when the thing beeped, then I did my job.

But Kinsley's job was to convince me to vote for Kerry, which is infinitely more important than what I was doing, and he failed. So fine: I'm guilty of behavior unbecoming a decent human being, but he's guilty of 62 million counts of a war crime. He could've done more but chose not to.

 

63

imtoast at May 02, 2009 01:06 PM (722v3)

Heh. You can thank me by picking a fight with JackStraw.  When he gets wound up, it's like watching a retarded kid slap fighting.  It's fun to watch, but you are also profoundly glad you aren't the one on the receiving end.

Or more accurately, its like that skinny ugly Puerto Rican kid that you don't wanna mess with.  Cuz he'll cut you, man...

64 So when the left's policies inevitable lead to the downfall of this country, will we get to punish them?

65 Check out the comments section of that article.  Full frontal displays of leftwing lunacy.

66 #63
Ed

Well, if you keep this up, JackStraw is going to pick a fight with you and I'll be able to watch from the sidelines.  I just felt that Honest Clouds remark about 25 million American deaths by Ayers was too much.  I'd much rather read than post.  :-)

67 64 So when the left's policies inevitable lead to the downfall of this country, will we get to punish them?

No. Absolutely not. Because THEY had good intentions.

68 Shorter Kinsley: "Will no one rid me of this meddlesome Republic?"

69

I'd consider this mildly amusing in a "what new crazy ass thing will they say next?" sort of way if it weren't for the commentators at my local rag who are yammering for much the same thing.  So much for that peace loving, rights of others upholding mask a lot of progressives/lefties/"liberals" like to wear.  These folks really do want to put people they don't like (aka. don't agree wholeheartedly with everything they do) in camps or in ovens -- even their kids.  They practically slobber talking about that and other worse things -- all the while wailing about the injustices of waterboarding and violating the rights of the "insurgents". 

This isn't just an opinion coming from some fringe minority it seems -- and that's just plain crazy scary right there.  I'm afraid it will all end very badly -- for everyone.

70 I voted for Bush (with all his faults) because he believed in protecting America.
I never doubted that Bush loved America.
The current administration is more interested in the rights of terrorists than the death of thousands of Americans. All for political retribution.

So yeah, you can come get me too, you motherfucking, cocksucking, terrorist loving piles of shit.

Fuck you with a chainsaw Kinsley, you little son of a bitch.

I rarely cuss, but it needed to be said.

71 "The trouble with this desire for retribution isn't that it goes too far. The trouble is that it doesn't go far enough."

Good luck with that Michael Kinsley...

Just a word of advice: It isn't wise to only bring a manifesto to a gunfight.

There isn't a day that goes by anymore where I don't reflect on how thankful I am that our Founding Fathers had the foresight to codify the Second Amendment.

Molon Labe Hippies!

72 These libs are trying to turn this country into a banana republic. If, say, I was going to try to do that...I'm not exactly sure how I would do anything differently than they've done, or said anything differently than they've said, assuming of course that any quicker pace of change would be infeasible, as it would be met with armed resistance from patriots.

73 These leftist fuckers had total government control for about 5 damn minutes and they're already calling for the heads of everyone who opposes them?
Talk about over reach.  2010 is going to be a disaster for them at this rate.

And someone should tell Kinsley that Obama has not taken our guns yet.

74

Didn't Ayers and his merry band of terrorists advocate death camps for 25 million people come the revolution?

 

Forewarned is forearmed.

75 Hey, I like that someone is finally openly admitting that for many of the Left it damn well should be a crime to be a Republican.  I do so prefer to be openly hated. 

76 Is Kumar going to write and produce the propaganda films we'll forced to watch in the camps?

'Cause, if that's the case, put me down, for execution. 

77

If I wasn't already scared to death of what our country is becoming this would scare me. But I'm at eleventy1!1! now, so there's no place else for me to go.

Sometimes, as I watch people going on, day by day, living their lives as if nothing of consequence is happening and that breeze they feel is hope, not the chill wind of something wicked headed our way, I wish I could be so blind as well.

Sure would save on my booze and blood pressure medicine costs.

78 So is this like some circumlocuitous declaration of hostility (read: war)?

79 Mikey Kinsley, you manwhore, are you threatening me? If you think your typical Muhammad Al-Goathumper is a mean bastard, just you wait. Lots of us rednecks are just itching to lay a Preston Brooks-style beatdown on some bigmouthed liberal douchebag ass. Ah jess cain't wait, boah. Hells yeah, you want some, you four-eyed little mealy-mouthed bitch? Come on and get some. Give me a fucking excuse. Goddamn, I want to take bigass chunks out of your delicate lily-white flesh and string them up like Christmas lights.

80

Kensington @ #30: Now, on the other hand, is it possible that Kinsley is being outrageous to make a point (i.e., that you can't punish the American people so it's probably best to knock off the calls for retribution), or can this be taken at face value?

If he was being outrageous to make a point, then his column was brilliant. But I'm taking it at face value. I think he really wants his readers to punish, in some way, their acquaintances that voted for Bush in '04.

My basis is the recent history of the deliberate fomenting of strife between neighbors, but only so long as the conflicts can be drawn along existing political lines. (If your hometown has ever faced the issues surrounding a proposed new Walmart, then you probably know what I'm talking about.)

But stupid and asinine? Hardly. I think Kinsley wants his piece taken literally, and that it's shrewd and calculating.

81 Molon labe, Mikey.

82 Reductio ad absurdum?

Reductio ad absurdum (Latin: "reduction to the absurd") is a form of argument in which a proposition is disproven by following its implications to a logical but absurd consequence.

Am I just not seeing the nudge-nudge, wink-wink part? Perhaps he is being entirely too nuanced? He cannot be serious can he? Do the leftists want a civil war?

83

"I just don't know.  I'll have to convene a quilting circle and discuss this further." Posted by: Typical Leftist at May 02, 2009 12:46 PM

Ummm....I think that would be a drum circle.

A quilting circle would actually produce something useful.

84 And someone should tell Kinsley that Obama has not taken been hung from a lamp post for trying to take our guns yet.
Posted by: Toad

Fixed it for you.

85

Gosh, Mike, why don't you just come on out to the next Tea Party and fill us in on what punishment you "elites" feel is appropriate for those of us who have not only committed the thought-crime of disagreeing with you and Bambi, but the vote-crime voting for the wrong people.

I'm sure we'll be happy to share our thoughts with you, in return.

86 Venting on here is all good and well and fine. However, if you actually click through to the article, Michael Kinsley's email address is displayed at the bottom of the article. A few emails from some of the smarter morons might inform Mr Kinsley of his idiocy.
Of course, even better would be a dissenting opinion in the WaTimes on Monday, but, we all know that's not going to happen!
Email this article to your friends and family, let them know just what we're up against!

87 WE dont' grab people off the streets, we capture them in the field of combat...

...Michael Kinsley is morally and intellectually bankrupt.

88 It's a shame watching this blue on blue action where Kinsley is ready to put in the gulag Nancy Pelosi et al. for supporting torture and rendition. Her comrades didn't vote for Bush but did act directly in advocating Bush's policies and even asked of Bush if he went far enough - did he need even more Congressional support to conduct these operations. Her actions were even more complicit and acute than the voters!!!eleventy!

Just a damn shame. So, Nancy, now might be a good time to flee this coming banana republic for another. Kinsley says your name is now "Mud."

89

seriously what is considered punishment for a leftard  these days? taking away our little gold star stickers?

these people should really watch what they says around a bunch of right wing extremist criminals. we write letters and call our represenatives... we're crazy like that.

90

Humhh. Prosecute the torturers or the treasonous?

Tough fuckin' call

/sarc

91
May I remind you that you're dealing with a dealing with political fanatics who think it's perfectly okay for Robert Kennedy Jr. to say, "This is treason. And we need to start treating them as traitors," when speaking of people who doubt or question the validity of Global Warming.

92 Wasn't he one of the douches hating Palin as stupid? Biden's so stupid Hispanic Dems are bitching that linking Biden to them is evil and racist - so hilarious:

"On behalf of the Congressional Hispanic Caucus (CHC), we write to demand an apology for the inclusion of the picture of the CHC meeting with President Obama in a montage that also included Vice President Joe Biden," the CHC wrote in a statement today. "Is the GOP trying to imply that all Latinos are idiotic gaffe machines?"

"It's disrespectful to the hard-working Latinos across the nation," the statement continued. "The CHC has done nothing to warrant a comparison to Biden, who takes a year off Robert Gibbs's life every time he opens his mouth. We demand an apology for this insensitivity and that the video be removed immediately."

93 The left in general, is all for making an argument based on the purity and nobility of "America" (We're America!  We don't do that!), as long as by making that argument, they are able to cast America in a negative light.  Otherwise it's, "Yeah, we've been pretty arrogant,"  or "We've been pretty heavy handed." 

I'm sorry but I just don't think this is going to end well.

94 When the colonies started killing the people in their british government, it was really an act of self defense.  That's why they wanted us to have the right to be armed... self defense.  When I start hearing crap like this, it's clear that some liberals really do want to harm me.

I don't have the time to start some kind of armed revolution, and it wouldn't really make sense in a country where 60% of the people like Obama anyway.  But the colonists didn't have time for a revolution either.  they went on and on for years just trying to feed their families.  Eventually, they had to defend themselves anyway.

When libs laugh and smirk at normal folks who own guns, they are secretly upset that they can't dominate and harm them to the fullest extent.

No republican ever put people in concentration camps, but democrats love doing that shit.  The one who interned all those japanese just happens to the one who thought we could spend our way out of a depression, and the one Obama proudly claims to emulate most.  He also failed to take steps to prevent WWII, by tolerating madmen like Hitler and the Emperor.  Just as Obama will tolerate Putin retaking Georgia and Iran bombing Israel.

95 Yo friends, check this out.  All this talk about criminalizing the opposition may be a bit of overreach.

96 I would pay big money to be able to urineboard Kinsley.

Something tells me that he would enjoy that.

In fact, something tells me that he regularly pays large sums of money for that.

97 95

and yet Gallup goes to one of Obama's highest ever - 67/28

with raz at 54/45 and plus one only on "very" fav/unfav....lowest ever.


Doesn't make any sense.

98 Great post!

Would you like a Link Exchange with our new blog COMMON CENTS?  Check us out here....
http://www.commoncts.blogspot.com

99

Anyone doubt that Kinsley had his tiny dick in one hand as he typed out his hate fantasy with the other?

 

 

 

100

"Americans grabbed people off the streets of foreign countries, took them to other foreign countries (because we don't allow this sort of thing in the United States!) and tortured them until they said whatever our government wanted to hear."

Wasn't it the Clinton Administration which began the authorization of extraordinary renditions?

101 97

Gallup polls 'Americans' (ie, know-nothings who may not vote, read, etc.).

Ras polls likely voters, (ie, people who pay attention).

102 I tend to think that Kinsley would love to have the sweat off of your balls...

103

Reductio ad absurduim? The joke's on me if that's what he's doing.

But following his proposal's implications to a logical consequence isn't absurd at all. The wink and the nudge are just in the degree of retribution. It's more like, "Don't lynch them, because you can't legally do that -- but you can shun them, gossip about them, ostracize them, boycott their businesses. Start by not smiling next time you say hello. They're the enemy; they deserve it. They went against us. Make them pay."

104 Buyers loyalty vs. buyers remorse?

105 101

if only it were that easy.

106 Someone gave me a copy of Peggy Noonan's A Heart, a Cross, and a Flag a while ago, and it just came up in the Filly Reading Q.  It's a collection of columns written after 9/11, and I am by turns incredulous, sad, and furious.  She was there.  She felt it.  She knew the danger.  How is it this same woman who, paragraph after paragraph, extolls firemen, police chiefs, manhood in general, and John Paul II now spin on her heel and speak of Gov. Palin in such terrible terms?  Exactly how good are the open bars at these lefty cocktail parties she seems taken with enough to excuse Obama his many sins? 

What a waste.

107 @14 Vic

Is this any different that us saying the 53% should be horsewhipped?  And besides, who does give a shit what this commie spews out.

Sorry so late with this (I read through the links and all the comments to make sure I'm not repeating anyone else).

In his first paragraph, Kinsley constrains us to three possible outcomes:

1.  Forgive and forget

2.  Forgive and don't forget

3.  Don't forgive and don't forget

He dismisses the first out-of-hand.  He then says that the Kenyan is shooting for option two. 

I estimate that Kinsley's attempt to criminalize Bush '04 voters is what passes in fevered moonbat "logic" as an opening bid that is supposed to settle in compromise with prosecutions as in option three.

The defining difference between the left's careless advocation of punishing me for my non-leftist beliefs and my wildly outrageous statements regarding what I will do after the apocalypse hits is this: 

The left will warp the foundations of our republic, trample on The Constitution, and recast the United States of America to give themselves the false cover of a false legitimacy for what they have in store. 

I, on the other hand, will do what I need to do in defense of myself and mine.  I don't need to create some bullshit narrative out of thin air to justify myself.

To beat my dead horse once again:  If we get civil collapse, what will be the nature of the order that returns?  Will it be similar to what we have now, or will we find ourselves in Pol Pot's Cambodia? 

108

MIkeO

My point was that this guy is simply making outrageous invective to satisfy his core audience and sell copy.

109 He also assumes that those of us who voted for Bush are 1) appalled 2) ashamed.  I feel that way about his spending and the shamnesty crap.  Pretty much everything else, right down to the cowboy boots?  Hell no.

110

My point was that this guy is simply making outrageous invective to satisfy his core audience and sell copy.

Posted by: Vic

Michael Kinsley's motives aren't the problem. His audience that takes this garbage seriously are the problem, and they number in the millions.

111 @107 self

Crap.  So much for my reading comprehension.  Seems XBradTC already made the argument in comment #59.

112 Obviously, from the facts that Mr. Kinsley lays out, the only appropriate course of action for us, is to conduct an investigation into who these people are who voted for torture by voting to re-elect Bush, and then determine the appropriate manner in which to hold them accountable for supporting torture.  There has to be responsibility here.  There has to be accountability on the part of those responsible, and there has to be responsibility on the part of those accountable.

113 The first time I proposed a snatch, in 1993, the White House Counsel, Lloyd Cutler, demanded a meeting with the President to explain how it violated international law. Al Gore belatedly joined the meeting, having just flown overnight from South Africa. Clinton recapped the arguments on both sides for Gore: "Lloyd says this. Dick says that. Gore laughed and said, "That's a no-brainer. Of course it's a violation of international law, that's why it's a covert action. The guy is a terrorist. Go grab his ass."

114 @108 Vic

My point was that this guy is simply making outrageous invective to satisfy his core audience and sell copy.

Sorry--I guess I sound like I was on a rant there.

Yours is the simplest explanation that fits, and it is therefore more elegant than mine.

But given the old saw about how it's not paranoia when they're really out to get you, this article fits an overall pattern of the 21st Hijacker's probing the limits of how far the 52 are willing to go.

115

Think about this; how long has it been since Kinsley had that TV show with Buchanan where they made useless arguments back and forth?  Since he can only sell his sorry columns in a few liberal papers which are failing rapidly he has to do something.

116 Why did  William F Buckley he ever have this hippy libera,l Michael Kinsley, on his old show "Firing Line"? Was that a concession to the hippies at PBS?

117

re: pendejo grande  :"Three words for Mr. Kinsley:   Bring.It.Motherfucker!But he won't. He'll expect those poor under-educated rubes that John Kerrey was warning about to go enforce this shit."

 

Well, he physically can't, since he, like Michael J Fox,  has Parkinson's Disease

 

118

Hey Strings:

Did that disease impact his thinking.  Hitler's various diseases did not excuse his guilt nor his capability to destroy.  Kinsley has made his goals clear to ignore them is to be an accomplice. 

 

When a rabid dog threatens a loved one, a sane man doesn't observe the dog is disabled you insure it never threatens your loved ones again.

119 Nevermind that the whole "let's prosecute the previous opposition party administration just because" precedent could backfire and be used against Democrats when another Republican administration gets into office, too.



So I just have to survive the next 1300+ days and then I can bring a rope up to the NYT building to punish those who would make the case for punishing Boosh's supporters?

120 #30 Kensington

"Now, on the other hand, is it possible that Kinsley is being outrageous to make a point (i.e., that you can't punish the American people so it's probably best to knock off the calls for retribution), or can this be taken at face value?"

Well summarized, Kensington.

Hey, guys, if you've read Kinsley before, you'd know that he's bright and not a nut at all. Read his article again with that in mind. In this issue, he's very much against crazed retribution. Misread, Dave in Texas.

121 I'm disgusted.  As a staunch conservative, I consider it your duty to give this man the sweat on your balls.  Stop being so selfish, Ace.

122 turtle - 1300+ days from now there won't be a NYT building. 

123 Yeah, after the next great stimulus package it'll have been more honestly renamed the Ministry for Popular Enlightenment and Propagand.

124 Ugggg. Propagand-a

125

Hey, guys, if you've read Kinsley before, you'd know that he's bright and not a nut at all. Read his article again with that in mind. In this issue, he's very much against crazed retribution.

Giving m at #120 the benefit of the doubt, I can see where Kinsley is not advocating retributive justice against Bush voters -- but neither is he being totally facetious. My take-away is that America (her people, distinct from her government) is still an immoral nation. Culpability rests with all of us: Bush supporters for condoning the torture practices that we knew to be going on, as well as the Kerry camp for not adequately denouncing these practices.

In short, it's more of the same. We need to pound our breasts and do more penance.

I respectfully disagree.

126 Meh.  I wouldn't cross the street to piss in Kinsley's face if his hair was on fire.

127 There is another group -- a large one -- that stood by doing nothing while Americans grabbed people off the streets of foreign countries, took them to other foreign countries (because we don't allow this sort of thing in the United States!) and tortured them until they said whatever our government wanted to hear. If you're going to punish people for condoning torture, you'd better include the American citizenry itself.

The real problem with Kinsley's little exercise in pragmatic realism is that he somehow forgets the word DEMOCRATS. As in, it was a DEMOCRAT named Bill Clinton that began the process of "extraordinary rendition."

And here the thing: whereas we "tortured" people by making someone afraid of insects be in a box with a caterpillar - after we told him it could not sting him - the UAE tortures people by running them over with a bus.

So what do you thing was done to the people Bubba Clinton sent to the UAE, hmmmm,???

128 Hey Kinsley, I'd be happy to give you my address, if you'll personally come to my house to punish me for supporting my country.

I doubt however, that you possess the balls to do so.

You spineless fuckbucket.

129 I thought he was dead?

Oh well, you win some you lose some

130 Just sent the little weasel an email at the Post:

Hey Kinsley,

I voted for Bush twice AND I approve of waterboarding terrorists. How my ass taste?

DP

131 126 Meh.  I wouldn't cross the street to piss in Kinsley's face if his hair was on fire.

Posted by: toby928: Caesarist at May 02, 2009 04:57 PM (PD1tk)

I would.  Even if his hair was not on fire. 

132

Ya ok Kinsley whateva...

Kinsley if YOU ever became a terrorist and lives where at stake, I would start MY version of the movie "SAW 6" on YOU to SAVE lives you fucking asswipe!!!!

 

133

Perhaps the little twat Kinsley is testing the waters.   I expect O'Reilly to take him on next week over this BS.  He hates that mofo.

As for me, I have to say that for the first time in my life I think I'm seriously thinking I should buy a gun.  Any morons have any advice on something reliable, won't break the bank, and is easy to use?  (I have used a hand gun once, at a friends place.  I literally couldn't hit the side of the barn.)  Thanks!

 

134

you'd better include the American citizenry itself...

Oh fer sure! And who'll they start with? idk... how about, right wing bloggers, ex-military persons and (of course) joooos!

135

ooooo... gun pron thread Fluffy.

Go to a range and tell them you don't know what you want, try several different types of weapons.  Get comfy with them.  Select a tool that works for you.

136 @133

Fluffy - I understand the impulse to buy a gun. Because of a worrying situation in my personal life and a sense that civilization is devolving at a rapid pace, I made the same decision recently. I can't make a recommendation regarding a particular weapon but I can highly recommend taking some firearm training at a local gun range. I've found it to be invaluable. I feel confident in my ability to safely have a gun in home and be able to use it if necessary. Right now I'm still debating which firearm I'm going to purchase. I've narrowed it down to the Sig P232 (.380) or the Sig Mosquito (.22) because they both fit my hand well. I'll probably get the .22 because I've found that I'm far more accurate with a .22 than the .380. Figure I'd rather hit something with a smaller caliber than miss it with a bigger caliber. Take some lessons and try out a few guns; I'm sure you'll find something that you'll be confident in using.

137

Select a tool that works for you.

That would be Obama, but he doesn't yet realize who he works for.  He is going to, mark my words, he is fucking going to.  Before this is over he is going to crawl and whine to the American voter, and he is going to get his motherfucking little ass dumped after one term, if he is lucky enough to get that far.

Oh, I can't wait to hear that motherfucking POS whine.

138 D_B @ 136 and Fluffy McNutter @ 133

Check out Kel-Tec's P3AT or Ruger's close copy the LCP if you get a chance.

Tiny - super light - inexpensive - point shot accurate (typical crappy sights) - .380

Load out with some good JHP ammo (Corebon) and you've got a pretty effective pocket or purse pistol. Much more effective than the .22 mosquito you are looking at. They're double action only and that takes some getting used to but that's not something you can't work out at the range.

Nutnfancy on Youtube has some decent reviews of both of them as well as alot of other options: http://tinyurl.com/dcwp8t

139 Monkeyfan - Thanks! I'll take a look at those this week.

140

That's for all the gun advice.  I knew the best first step would be to ask the morons! 

I am going to talk my husband into going to a range first.  (He was a liberal Jew when I met him now he is a conservative born-again Christian, so I won't have a problem convincing him. Call me Obi Wan.

Any thoughts a the hand gun vs. shot gun?  (I keep picturing that barn I missed.)  Thanks again!

141 You're very welcome.

Don't forget to join the NRA.
;^)

142 Fluffy I'd have to say get both.
;^)

As far as home defense shotguns go: Mossberg 500 series or Remington model 870's seems to be the standard in 12 guage pumps.

Both have tons of aftermarket options and good reputations for reliability.

143

Monkeyfan,

Thanks for that info.  Home protection is primarily what I'm interested in right now.  I am definitely going to a range and try different things. People who have always had guns probably don't know how hard a decision this is.  My dad had rifles, but I never felt a desire or need to have one.  In just a few short months I have been made to feel that I must own one, and for the very reason that our Founding Fathers constitutionally protected that right.  Change.

144 Fluffy -- You're my hero. I could never even convince my ex to put his dirty clothes into the hamper instead of the floor!

145 The fact that people like Kinsley aren't laughed off the public stage by people of all political persuasions makes me think we're a lot closer to an actual civil war, with guns and shit, than I'd ever thought we could be in my lifetime. 

Which reminds me, the action on my rifle is getting a bit sticky and needs to go to the shop.  I guess the Kinsleys of the world do have their uses after all.

146

Fluffy -- You're my hero. I could never even convince my ex to put his dirty clothes into the hamper instead of the floor!

LOL, I may have over-reached a bit, though - I'm an agnostic!

147 I'm not an expert or anything as it has been only the last six months or so that I've shot or owned anything but .22's, but you'll probably notice that most shooters are as good abunch of people as you'll ever meet and they love introducing new people into the brotherhood (or sisterhood) of personal responsibility.

Good luck.
Take some classes and have fun.

148

Good luck.
Take some classes and have fun.

Thanks monkeyfan! 

BTW - I had already decided to join the NRA before I made up my mind to buy a gun. They're gonna need every penny they can get with this administration and Congress.

149 Any thoughts a the hand gun vs. shot gun?  (I keep picturing that barn I missed.)  Thanks again!

12-gauge autoloader, .45 Long Slide with laser sighting, 9mm Uzi, phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range...

Any of these is ideal for home defense.

150 Ace's liver

I pissed away the whole afternoon yapping on the net when I could have been shooting and getting some work done. This thread has convinced me clear my schedule for some shooting tomorrow.

Thanks Michael Kinsley.
The next 500 rounds are for you.

151 Good onya Fluffy.
This is a critical time for defenders of the Second Amendment.

CSM-101 I wish I could get a phased plasma rifle in any wattage.

152 Leftism sounds like a defacto religion.  I guess this is its version of "original sin"

153 Yup Purple Avenger, Their tortured version of original sin.

154 While we're on the topic of guns: I went to my local Academy Sports and Outdoors today and they have not a single round of pistol ammo of any caliber. Period. What in the fuck is the govt doing to people like Remington, Winchester, Hornady, and all the others that they can't ramp up production of something that would make them an astonishing amt of mone? I haven't seen a round of buck shot this year. You can buy #7, #8, and #9 bird shot by the assload. But those really don't do much to those two-legged wolves until they're close enough you can smell the Boone's Farm on their breath.

155
@154 pendejo grande

Hoard the buckshot and slugs for defense.

Use the cheaper and more readily available heavy target loads for cleansing. A blast to the gut gives 'em a couple of days to ponder what they did to piss you off.

Nothing focuses the mind like the pain of death by sepsis.

156 Pendejo grande damn near everything in common zombie-stopping sizes is difficult to find and expensive.

I live on an island that makes California look like Texas as far as gun regulations go and it's tough.

157  Again, towards this little POS:

Molon Labe.

158

What in the fuck is the govt doing to people like Remington, Winchester, Hornady, and all the others . . .

It's called supply and demand.  The gubermint is taking actions that demand you supply yourself.

This is the problem with a centrally controlled economy.

The layoffs that began last fall and continue today are not because the economy is bad it's because words have not only meaning, words have consequences. 

The Present is not only talking us into a depression, he's talking us into a civil war.

Businesses and citizens alike are planning for the future.

159

Amount of time and/or energy I've spent worrying about our treatment of prisoners at Guantanamo and elsewhere:  ZERO.

My conscience is utterly undisturbed.  My sleep is sound.

This is true, I firmly believe, of a majority of Americans.

Unfortunately, the minority controls the media, and therefore has created this alleged moral failing.

Whatever.

160 So by Kinseys' logic; the electorate of and political supporters of Bill Clinton - who initiated the rendition policy; the electorate of and political supporters of George Bush who continued it, and the electorate of and political supporters of Barack Obama who who just reaffirmed it are stained by some sort of extensional guilt. 

That's leaves the children, the great unwashed who ignore the political process, and the voters who wrote in Elvis or Aragorn.  And, of course, the virtuous press corps who as unbiased observers, can't be guilty of anything.

I'd go to confession Mr. Tinsely; but I'm sure my pastor would question my sanity.

161

Remember President Barry was going to unite us?  Looks like a hell of a disturbance is on the horizon.  I haven't seen this country this divided in decades.

 

Thanks Barry.

162 O/T:  It is interesting that a blog which is by no means a "right wing conservative blog" has published an article which sounds like it could be on a "right wing conservative blog".   The people on this blog, which I have read for quite sometime, were all cheerleaders for the dems and probably big money raisers.  Fascinating:  "We would point out to the SEC that hedge funds had little to do with the present crisis, and that, in fact, those firms dying on the vine are the same firms that endured the greatest level of regulation prior to imploding, but reason went out the window long ago when Obama slammed the bottle of Jack Daniels on the table after taking that first big hand and announcing: "I won."  http://tinyurl.com/e88bk

163 @ Fluffy McNutter: Regarding guns, check what the Cornered Cat has to say about getting a new one at http://tinyurl.com/dx2xhn

Her site is incredibly useful for those new to the practice of the Second Amendment.

164

Again, the question arises: what's it going to take to start the ball, and who will be the targets once it starts? I once read that we'll know we're truly in a civil war when there is a firebombing of an ACLU office and the police and fire departments refuse to respond. Sounds like a pretty good definition to me.

As for Kinsley and his crew coming around to mete out some retribution, don't make me laugh. If they are ever stupid enough to start that game, what we're going to have is a fight that will make the lefties think the butt-kicking they took in the Spanish Civil War was a day at the beach.

165 Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that how Hamas justifies blowing up Israeli schoolkids? Nice friends you've got there, Mikey...

166  @164 mac

Again, the question arises: what's it going to take to start the ball, and who will be the targets once it starts?

I don't think we'll have something quite so dramatic as a shelling of Fort Sumter this time around.  My bet is that this time, the trigger is going to be widespread urban rioting by the 21st Hijacker's own base.

My entire life, there has been an appalling double-standard between the protected classes and everyone else when it comes to publicly acceptable behavior.  The "I won" stuff is emboldening the protected classes to push this to the limits.  The rest of us cannot push back because the institutions won't let us, so we're left individually either to martyr ourselves under vilification by calling-out bad behavior or to stew and fill an enormous reservoir of resentment.

The economy is going into the toilet.  If the uncertainty of whom the Kenyan will be bullying next doesn't chill investment and growth, then the inflation and network effects of the porkulus and omnibus lootings' hitting the pockets of the petty kleptocrats will.  And how many pennies on the dollar do you think will be left to go into the productive economy after the kleptocrats skim their take from the top? 

The underclass will be hurt further because most of the opportunities that were available to them during the fatter times were, frankly, byproducts of noblesse oblige on the part of the productive economy.  Will this sense of obligation outweigh the resentment? 

Urban crime will skyrocket again like it did following the Warren court's undermining of society.  The cities cannot withstand the combination punches of mainstreamed bad personal behavior, leftist restrictions on policing, and a lack of economic opportunity.  This time, the radicals running the show not only are incompetent to address it but adhere to the same broken philosophies that can lead to no other result.  The "thin blue line" cannot hold under those conditions, and the conflagration will begin.

Even under Clinton, I would not have given much thought to being uncooperative if the federal government had to declare martial law or suspend civil liberties to quell widespread rioting.  I would have had the faith to believe that we would return to normal, and I would have pitched-in to do what I could as a proud citizen of this country.

I have no faith in this administration.  All of the crazy stuff that has happened since inauguration was clearly telegraphed during the campaign, and even though these signals were hidden among hundreds of statements that contradicted them, the jackass can point to video evidence that he said he would do whatever outrage he is committing at any given moment.  And a large number of those I once considered my fellow citizens are now unmasked as a mob of grinning looters cheering the Teleprompter Jesus they hired to wage class warfare against me.

The stakes are much too high for me to ignore the warning that is the DHS report on "rightwing" extremism.  That document will be the foundation on which I and others with views similar to mine will be cast as criminals.

The real question is not one of what event will precipitate this supersaturated solution.  The real question is how far we individually are willing to go to defend ourselves from our domestic enemies once the trouble starts.  I know my limits, and these limits dwindle further every time I read something like Kinsey's piece or an HC comment.

167 @166 self

Oops.  I meant "Kinsley," not "Kinsey."

Easy to confuse, though:  One was a degenerate, and the other has a degenerative CNS disease.

168 Kinsley's "argument" is indistinguishable from the one that is used by jihadis to justify murdering civilians. So, let it be said that Kinsley is in favor of bombing civilians to punish them for their government's policies.

169 Always hated Kinsley.  His fucking head wobbles when he talks.

170 This dickweed, who wants to murder live human embryos by using them in medical research because he happens to be suffering from a chronic illness (MS, I believe), thinks he's in a position to lecture the rest of us on morality?

You'd think only the rabble 48%  who think our government should protect us have to die, ever. People like him get to live forever through the slaughter of the innocent.

171

Drop Kinsley's ass over in Pakistan...let him convince the Taliban and AQ that they should "change their ways" when dealing with captives...I guess he doesn't remember what happened to Daniel Pearl...

There is a reason why they call them "extremists"...they are not afraid to use any means necessary to reach their goals...and they know that the enemy is unwilling or unable to use drastic measures to defeat them.  Talking to terrorists is showing them that you/we are in a position of weakness...by showing them that we are not afraid to use means at our disposal to get information will get them to think twice about attacking us.

Liberal morailty...that's a fucking oxymoron if I ever heard one...

172 The left obviously believes we must lose a city or more to pay for our sins, eight years of Bushitler must be expiated. OK, as long as it's one that voted blue.

Elections have consequences, and I've rearranged my lifestyle to minimize them.

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